Nimoy & Orci Comment On President Obama’s Similarities to Spock December 1, 2009
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Great Links, Nimoy, Orci/Kurtzman, Science/Technology, Star Trek (2009 film), TOS , trackback
There has been much written connecting President Barack Obama to Star Trek, spurred on by Obama’s own references to the franchise. In a new feature article today, the AP draws a specific comparison between the President and Star Trek’s Mr. Spock. The article also has comments from the original Spock, Leonard Nimoy, and Star Trek co-writer Roberto Orci, excerpts below.
Obama: Science Officer in Chief?
The main thrust of the article is that Obama’s ‘no drama’ persona, coupled with his support of science, leads to the conclusion "Barack Obama is Washington’s Mr. Spock, the chief science officer for the ship of state." The article notes many of Obama’s science initiatives, including how last week the White House announced it would hold an annual science fair to improve math and science education, quoting Obama "We’re going to show young people how cool science can be"
President Barack Obama tours a research laboratory at MIT (AP Photo/Gerald Herbert, File)
When asked the Obama/Spock Connection, Leonard Nimoy (who supported Obama for President) told the AP:
Nimoy: I guess it’s somewhat unusual for a politician to be so precise, logical, in his thought process. The comparison to Spock is, in my opinion, a compliment to him and to the character.
The article also quotes Star Trek co-writer Roberto Orci, who told the AP:
"We knew he was a Trekkie," Orci said in a telephone interview. He said he watches the White House regularly for insight on the Spock character.
"To have a case study like that on the news every night makes my job a lot easier," he said.
Orci said Star Trek’s captain, James T. Kirk, was "based on a young new president in Kennedy" and that the Obama administration is part of a 1960s-type revival. Except this time, Kirk isn’t in charge. Spock is.
"You can make the case that Kirk is very (George W.) Bush-like," Orci said. "The (latest) movie represented those two opposing viewpoints: Leap before you look versus reasoned analysis."
The AP Obama article is running today in many newspapers across the country and can be read at MSNBC.com and other sites. This is certainly not the first time Obama has been compared to Mr. Spock. For example, the week the Star Trek movie came out, the NY Times had an op-ed by Maureen Dowd on the subject.
New York Times illustration of Obama as Spock
Star Trek in the mainstream
Regardless of your politics, this is another example of how Star Trek is as strong as ever in the zeitgeist. The AP could not do an article like this, unless it was felt that America would understand the connection. For more Obama/Trek connections, see:
- Obama: First Trekkie President
- Obama Flashes Vulcan Sign At Correspondent Dinner
- Obama Reviews Star Trek Movie
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Comments
Before you all get started, I want to make it clear that this site is not the place for partisan political debates. The article is really about science and Star Trek being a mainstream media touchstone. It is also about the comments of Star Trek celebrities
Boring partisan political attacks from either side can be done much better at political sites, if you feel the need to get that out of your system, visit one of them.
The great thing about the western democracies is that we don’t go in for creepy personality cults surrounding political leaders, isn’t it?
That is so incredibly dumb.
Good points here (pun intended). Reason is no good without emotion, and vice versa. The Kirk/Spock relationship succeeded because of that – as did the Federation.
As for getting too political here, I’ll let Ferris speak for me:
“Isms in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an ism – he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon: ‘I don’t believe in Beatles I just believe in me.’”
Seconding #1 Anthony.
While in so-called “real life” I am not a fan of Obama’s policies, TrekMovie’s about Trek, not politics. And I, for one am really pleased that he’s put Star Trek back in the public eye — and in such a public way. It is downright freaking *awesome* that the *President of the United Freaking States,* whatever one thinks of him politically, is a fan of Star Trek. That *can’t* be a bad thing — for us, for him, or for the country. (Plus, it’s accurate: Pres. Obama is very much about the deliberative, the logical, and the precise. Just like Spock.)
I am also grateful to Mr. Orci for having made the comparison between Fmr. Pres. Bush and Captain Kirk. For one, I think that it’s apt, in the same way that the Obama comparison to Spock is apt — Kirk looked before he shot, but once he decided to shoot he shot. Same with Pres. Bush. For both, sometimes that was the right answer; sometimes it wasn’t, and usually it was controversial. Pretty much the story of any presidency. For two, given the reception Republicans often get in Trek venues, I half-expected to see Mr. Orci comparing Pres. Bush to a Klingon, or possibly Khan himself. It’s nice to feel welcome in Trekdom for once — or at least not actively hated.
Thanks for the post, TrekMovie! Let’s see if we can get a Trekkie nominated from the GOP in ‘12, so we can have America’s historic first election where both candidates are Trekkies!
7. boborci – December 1, 2009
lol. It did. Bush? I’m sorry. Yes, Kirk was gung ho, but there’s a difference between the two styles of ‘gung-ho’ (besides one is fictional lol).
Hm…. where did ‘7. boborci – December 1, 2009′ go?
Before you all get started, I want to make it clear that this site is not the place for partisan political debates.
But can it be the place to make jokes at all politician’s expense regardless of party offiliation? Because that’s just fun to do.
I wonder what SpockObama thinks about the re-animation of deceased presidents and their possible impact upon th political landscape in the next elective process? (Link courtesy of CmdrR.)
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/zombie_reagan_raised_from_grave
7. Kirk_Vs_Kahn – December 1, 2009
Seems to have some commoninalities in bio — children of Men in charge, fratty, drank too much, made it to highest rank with no real qualifications!
I KEEEEED, of course!
Kirk and Spock as two sides of the same coin is good – but we also need the good Dr. in there as the secular humanist referee. Trying to think of who McCoy’s current political doppleganger would be… and it’s hard to come up with anyone who’s actually bipartisan nowadays.
9. boborci – December 1, 2009
You had to go there, didn’t you lol
:-D
Kirk drank too much?
BTW: Kirk and Buch also have the same number of letters in their names.
#9 boborci
That’s great! Of course, couldn’t Kirk just as easily be a Kennedy, too (said this liberal poster)?
: D )
Guys I deleted a comment that made a personal attack, and then deleted Bobs reply to that. I am going to stop moderating this thread and ask you all to moderate yourselves
We are all united in being Star Trek fans. I like what James had to say about how we can all be proud that a President is a Trekkie.
I would hate to see us descend into partisan attacks on eachother. With canon, and ship design, and TNG v TOS, don’t we have enough debates without hating eachother over politics?
I do not appriciate the George Bush/Kirk comparison. I liked the Kennedy one better. But yes, Spockbama forever.
13. HotStove – December 1, 2009
Sure. Kirk was originally and very obviously Kennedy inspired, coming into our world only a few years after his assassination.
@boborci Are you going to look to Obama for inspiration for Spock in the next Star Trek? Since you said you wanted to do something with political allegories, it would be… logical.
;)
17. Rach – December 1, 2009
Perhaps. Assuming Obama behaves inspirationally.
@boborci
I think that’s a good assumption to make. Let’s hope!
Ok, I won’t rant about politics (though I would like to) I just want to say. Didn’t we do this allready? I mean, it’s allready been talked about that Obama is a trekkie, and is like spock in his logic and ect… So why is this news?
@boborci
Another random question… how’s the writing coming? :) I know we’re all wondering.
9.
No real qualifications? I guess governing the largest state in the US as comparred to two years as a senator most of which was spent campaigning doesnt count? And what has Spock accomplished? Spock at least KNEW he was better suited toward being an Ambassador as opposed to a leader…we need a balance of brawn and brain working together and what we have had instead is one extreme to the other. Kirk needed Spock to temper him. Spock needed Kirk to get him ‘out of his head’ and take action. They LEARNED from each other. W leaped in to the fray without, soem could say, a lot of forthought while Obama ponders and promises much while delivering little. The bloom is off that rose, folks, and I wont vote for someone just because they like the same show that I do. Both sides will always blame the other side for ‘tying their hands’ instead of working together. The intellectuals only have the FREEDOM to sit aorund thinking because the warriors ACT. The scholars sit around trying to think up ways to keep the warriors from HAVING to act. It is a balance that we have lost because we find ourselves in a country where both sides disdain the other instead of working together.
BTW, Boborci, Kirk PRIME had qualifications…he actually worked his way through the ranks. Your comparison only works with the Kirk that YOU created who went from Cadet to Captain over night…Im actually surprised you wrote that considering it draws attention to just how contrived that plot point was. Yes, the new Kirk was put in charge based on who his dad was and had no real qualifications…thanks for that reminder :)
Well – there’s a reason that Kirk was Captain, and Spock was only Captain when the Enterprise was essentially relegated to a training vessel. Certain personalities are born to lead and others are born to analyze. I’d rather have a leader.
This thread lacks enough beer to be going in the direction it’s going.
24. CmdrR – December 1, 2009
Or Romulan Ale.
14 – Anthony Pascale – December 1, 2009
I just hope you can keep in mind that you get to say your politics on your website. You do a great job here and you deserve to say what you wish, but it’s not a surprise that a lot of people get upset that Trek seems to always be so one-sided in its politics, usually represented as such by the politics of the writers (STVI) and occasionally actors (STIV). In the STVI directory’s commentary, we get the bizarre comment that Gorbachev had everything to do the end of Communism, though he fought bitterly to protect it, directly ordering assassinations in the Baltics, and despite the testimony of dissidents from Siberia to Gdansk who say Reagan and Thatcher had much more to do with it. Sigh.
Many come to Trek to be a part of something great. Yet, at every turn, and by every implication, Republicans are never logical or thoughtful, as Nimoy says of Obama, nor courageous or charismatic, the key personality traits alluded to by Orci and Roddenberry for TOS Kirk. This is one reason some like myself are so scared we’re going to be shut out of the next movie by a ham-handed allegory. And that brings me to…
16. boborci – December 1, 2009
…it’s not that we *expect* the allegory to be ham-handed with your hand on the rudder, but we worry. You have a right to a public set of passionate, partisan political beliefs too. But some want you to smash Republicans in the face metaphorically. Maybe you’d like to, and you come close to obliging when you say: “One could argue Kirk was like Bush…..” while then exclaiming how much Spock and Obama are alike without doubt.
As if there’s doubt a hero like Kirk could be associated with any Republican. But *of course* a hero can be a Democrat. Never mind that a large majority of the military (composed of real people it turns out) itself votes Republican, that many of Kirk’s actions from TOS seem to far better fit a GOP manifesto than a Democratic one today… “Arena” folks? LOL. Star Trek’s best episodes “City on the Edge…” “Space Seed” “Balance of Terror” then “Inner Light” “All Good Things…” “Yesterday’s Ent” “The Visitor” “In the Pale Moonlight…” (sorry, no VOY or ENT comes to mind…..) and its best movies (arguably II and XI) are about the compelling often paradoxical parts of human nature. We all have them regardless of party.
I recognize that Republicans are almost surely a minority of the body of Trekkers out there. But I think they deserve more respect and a little bit more inclusion in the narrative.
GIVE. ME. A. BREAK. ALREADY!
Obama is nothing like Spock. Spock actually knew how to do his job.
I think the last two stories at TrekMovie are essentially the same. Both are about science (one about theories and one about policy), but both show that Star Trek is such a big part of society that it becomes the reference point for science. This is one of the strengths of Star Trek over Star Wars. Star Wars may be scifi, but at its heart it is really swords and sorcery fantasy.
I think it is great that Star Trek has been reborn in the mainstream culture to the extent that today hundreds of newspapers have a story that uses “Spock” as the hook to talk about national science policy and the Science Channel premieres a new show using Star Trek’s warp drive as a hook to talk about space travel theories.
As for why this is news, you have to ask the AP, but it seems they are mostly looking a new science policies, and returning to the ‘Obama/Spock’ meme to tell the story. The fact that Orci and Nimoy are in it, instantly qualifies it for TrekMovie.com reporting.
This article has nothing to do with my politics. I have never espoused any politics on this site. We have reported on political stories that have been linked to star Trek with comments from poltiicians from both sides of the isle.
Try as anyone might, there is no stated bias at this site except to be pro-star trek.
Bob, I disagree with any Kirk – Dubya connections. Kirk is his own man. He doesn’t have a Cheney directing him.
It’s an excellent choice for a first rate website, Anthony.
Don’t let us get you flustered.
We’re only Trekkies, after all.
Zombie Ronald Reagan doesn’t care about your partisan ideology. He only wants to eat your brains. And effect an exit strategy from Afghanistan that ensures victory and still maintins some U.S. presence in the region.
And curiously, he still enjoys Jelly Bellies.
Slow news day.
Bush reminded me of Chewbacca.
I agree with 31 Cmdr R, Anthony. I always enjoy seeing us back in whatever pop culture form.
LOL, I seriously worried about dying without ever having another Trek movie, or ever seeing Leonard Nimoy suit up again. And that was a horribly depressing thing. To be THIS relevant is something Trekkers may not have had a right to expect after the Berman / Braga years. It’s hard to imagine they could make as poor a movie as Nemesis…
And I enjoyed Insurrection but let’s talk about it for a second. Have we ever stopped to consider how insane that supposedly utopian society was? Kicking kids out for wanting technology? Making people wait 60 yrs to actually be artists? It’s some kind of super-liberal Stalin gulag. You get to live forever but you’re completely controlled in every choice you make!
‘Before you all get started, I want to make it clear that this site is not the place for partisan political debates.’
A bit like closing the barn door after you deliberately kicked the horse out, IMO, but I’m going to play Switzerland here.
So, Bob, how’s that rough draft for The Shat’s new part coming along? LMAO
26. Admiral Waugh – December 1, 2009
“…you come close to obliging..”
Really? By comparing him to JAMES T. KIRK?
No “Big Bang Theory” / Star Trek references because of no new show last night.
36
I am not sure why this is so hard for some to understand. Reporting on this is not ‘partisan’ . We would report on any Trek connections to media and politics. Plus the article is about science. Can’t all Trekkies agree that the pursuit to improving research and education in science is good…how else will we get transporters and warp drives?
Not everything is Partisan. Even when talking about a politician.
37. boborci – December 1, 2009
LOL. …yes! That’s the point! You just couldn’t *bring* yourself to really compare them! “You could compare…” There’s a looooot of doubt there. Whereas, again, absolutely none with the other comparison. Obviously there’s a difference.
ALTHOUGH… superficially, I have to admit, it’s making more sense. Both had fathers who were ostensibly war-time heroes. Drinking problems… eh. Of course, not much having to do with their intrinsic character, but………..
Okay. Don’t hurt me. I would have voted with you on the Shatner version of script.
The Spock character was created when Obama was a child. Thus, there can be no connection between the two and no comparison. And the same goes for the Kirk / Bush comparison…
Anthony, the only way you’re going to stop people from questioning your politics is to not have any political articles that relate to Star Trek in any way.
40. Admiral Waugh – December 1, 2009
LOL! Fair enough.
Just an insight here: I still remember in Basic Training my Drill Sergeant saying,”When I tell you to do something just do it! If I say ‘Duck’ and you stop to think WHY I said ‘Duck’ youre already dead. If I say SHOOT and you stop to ask WHY I said shoot youre already dead. The side that wins is the side that doesnt hesitate or rationalize.”
Spockbama would make a LOUSY soldier just as GW made a LOUSY Ambassador. Gorkon USED Spock in TUC but the fact remains that the Klingons themselves had no RESPECT for Spock. The Klingons didnt want ‘peace’ they wanted to survive. Historically the Middle Eastern culture has always used truces and treaties ONLY when they were in a position of weakness and only to bide their time for when they felt they were strong enough to strike (as the Klingons showed time and time again throughout Trek).
In Iraq it was made clear to me that this culture ONLY respects strength and negotiation is for the weak. The other side didnt LIKE Bush but they RESPECTED him. Obama on the other hand is finding out the hard way that ‘talking’ doesnt cut it in the Middle East. Its like watching Spock come to the realization that the Horta is dangerous WHEN IT AFFECTS HIM PERSONALLY and yelling, “Kill it, Jim!”. When the deaths were anonymous SPock rationalized saving the Horta.So many people in this country are Spocks that intellectualize the nasty business of killing and fighting because its not THEM but when they, or their loved ones are directly threatened, the tune changes. Conversely, Kirk in that episode went the other way. That was balance.
Its ironic that we talk about inflicting our ideals on other cultures but GW actually went about it in a way that the Jihadists understand: the strong man makes the rules. You cant re-educate until you WIN. The axis powers from WW2 are now our allies because they were crushed and rebuilt and that is the UGLY truth. We’ve been playing paddy cake in the Middle East and all its done is make this a long and drawn out mess. To win, decisive action without regard to ‘hurt feelings’ has to be taken OR withdraw completely and create an even BIGGER problem down the road. THAT is reality. The Klingons didnt negotiate until they HAD to because of Praxis. The Russians were failing economically and teh USSR was collapsing (but under Putin we see a resurgence of the old nationalism).
What they (Middle East) DONT understand is intelectualizing and sitting around trying to make everyone happy because its a tribal mentality and the tribal mentality is based around a sheik, a central strong man, who does not hesitate to enforce his authority. We violate the Prime Directive every time we ‘interfere’ with their ‘primitive culture’. But NOW the hill people and the villagers have traded up from muskets to AK47s and roadside bombs and Im pretty sure we dont want them to get their hands on phasers or we’re screwed…so what do we do? Do we fight? Do we think? Do we find a way to think AND fight decisively and effectively? Theres no easy answers especially when you start adding in all the other political hot topics that only serve to divide because they speak to core intellectual, philosophical or spiritual beliefs. How can we negotiate peace or win wars elsewhere when our OWN country is so divided?
Since Anthony is right, and this is about science, perhaps the more relevant question might be how will Obama respond to the revelation that evidence for human caused global warming has been potentially fabricated or exaggerated?
Or is that now basically a political question these days!?;)
Zombie Ronald Reagan would starve in the comments section of this website. For obvious reasons that need not be explained. But a hint would be that it wasn’t for lack of Jelly Bellies.
I always though of Dubya as more of a Pakled kinda dude.
So who’s Sarah Palin in the Trek universe? Cmdr Shelby?
I love how nerds have taken over everything.
Star Trek (2009), Fringe, Star Wars, Transformers, Spider-Man, X-Men, Mythbusters…
10 years ago, I would’ve gotten beat up for liking any of those. Nowadays, because of shows and movies like those, being a nerd is no longer a taboo. Computers and cell phones have helped in the Geek Revolution, as well.
Speaking of which, I cannot wait for this week’s Fringe! AHHH! Bob, not to brag on you, but you’ve helped to create one helleva show.
Heh… I got Post #47.
Sorry, but that number makes me laugh.
Palin’s more like Janeway.
I agree that Star Trek topics do often broach political or at least social issues but I have always assumed that both political parties are defunct in that universe. Whatever party they represent, it can’t be bad that US world leaders are aware of and, evidently, intrigued by Star Trek. I have always been proud of the Star Trek’s popularity with NASA personnel. Anything that promotes science is good for all of us.
Point taken, Mr. Pascale. Can I be on the other end of the spectrum and ask how anybody could be interested in politics at all? Star Trek: keeps me up all night watching it. Politics: instant sleeping pill. (snore)
44. boborci – December 1, 2009
Hahaha… seems like the smartest tack is to ignore it like a FOXNEWS reporter at this point.
It is true that we have the first Trekker President, and that’s good. I heard Obama screened it at the White House. Doesn’t get much better than that. I can understand Reagan’s confusion at STIII but dislike his reaction.
We came close to getting a Trekker on the other ticket too.
During a fundraiser in late 2007, I introduced myself to a room of about 40 people, including Governor Romney, by my name, profession, and added “And I’m a Starfleet officer.” There was a beat of silence. Then laughter around the room. Some people gave Vulcan salutes, including Romney.
Then he delivered his speech. He explained his method for solving problems. “First, I look at the data… and no, Christian,” he said, looking at me, “I don’t mean Lieutenant Commander Data.”
He even got the rank right.
boborci- My friends and I were wondering if Spock Prime’s finding of a planet for the Vulcan colony might be a way to bring an Israel-Palestine allegory into the next Trek film, perhaps if in this universe, there is another race already living on the planet that didn’t live there in the prime universe. Is that something that’s been on your radar as a potential story for the next movie?
Archons are obviously not welcome here. Obama forbid you mock the body. See you at festival you drones
Um, Bush didn’t leap before he looked, and Obama is anything but logical. Spock is NOTHING like Obama either. Obama’s more like Harry Mudd or Cyrano Jones–a snake oil salesman with the gift of gab, but ultimately, no substance or competence.
I must admit to being slightly jealous of you Americans. It would be nice if we could have a British prime minister who was a Trekkie!
Arrgh! Obama’s always been PICARD; the Spock comparisons only come from that character being at the pop culture forefront this year. The election was altogether rogue/old-schooler Kirk vs. diplomatic, thoughtful, pluralist Picard.
I really wish people would stop insulting Spock by comparing him to a vapid politician. Plus Spock never used a TelePrompTer.
52.
I served with Senator Romneys cousin in Iraq (he was in my platoon). We thought he was bs’ing us that Mitt was his cousin until he showed up (in Iraq) to pay him a visit. Seemed like a decent fellow. Didnt know he was in to Trek.
If anything, there’s a lot of creativity, worthy of the imagination to write fantasy.
Kirk did have some things in common with Bush. He was a man of principle, and did what he thought was right, without regards to political consequence. Kirk, like Bush, was a man of integrity, and served his country/planet, with honor. Kirk, like Bush, was a true leader.
Kirk was NOTHING like John Kennedy. Kennedy was a disaster when he started and learned on the job. He got better, but Kirk was never shown that way.
He was based on Horatio Hornblower. He was a cowboy in space. Wagontrain to the stars.
I think the general awareness of Star Trek is greater than we think. The 95% at Rotten Tomatoes is a testament to the anticipation and sigh of relief that came when ST09 came out. Capitol Hill is no exception. Regardless of what we may think of them, these men and women are intelligent, and the vast majority grew up with Star Trek as part of their popular culture.
The paradox for Obama being like Spock is that Spock would never feel the necessity to put himself up for a popularity contest. He never wanted the captaincy, and as Bob and Friends show so well in ST09, he has no patience for those who take sides.
He wants to be useful and productive, but has no eyes set on the center seat. Even ‘Mirror’ Spock said as much about his own lack of ambition. His ascendancy to Ambassador was simply a logical progression as he grew as an individual and a tribute to his own heritage as he grew comfortable with his own duality.
Obama fought to get himself elected, and into the current shatstorm that is US politics. Perhaps for the same reasons as Spock: to make himself useful, and “make a difference.”
Where the two are similar is in the fight to be recognized by their peers as normal, good people. Not half-breeds or freaks. And unfortunately, that continues to be an issue in our world.
“Obama is nothing like Spock. Spock actually knew how to do his job.”
QFT.
It is good to see Trek more mainstream if a bit odd after so many years when we were stereotyped as “Get a life” nerds or geeks.
Oh, Anthony…
I love how you post a story about THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and expect people NOT to talk about politics.
That’s like posting a story about William Shatner and expecting people NOT to talk about putting him in the next movie…
Any word on whether Spock was a one-term science officer? Just asking.
The real question is: Is there a Famous Obama Neck Pinch?
26-
Aren’t we talking about a franchise whose most loyal fan base is made up largely of white males?
I don’t think Republicans are a minority of the fans. They are a minority of the production staff and actors perhaps. But I would argue there’s actually a considerable amount of tension between the Star Trek creative team and fans when it comes to politics.
Much of the fan reaction to Quinto and Nimoy endorsing Obama was decidedly negative. Ditto for Mulgrew using the Voyager set to do an advertisement for the Democrats in 2000 and the appearance of various Trek stars at the Democratic National Convention. Moreover, one of the most common fan gripes against the all the series is about how “preachy” and “politically correct” the episodes are. I have a feeling those aren’t the Democrats talking.
For the record, posting quotes (even by Nimoy and Orci) taking cheap shots at a member of one political party while simultaneously gushing over the other invites irritation on the part of your “fans” who may not share your (or their) political persuasion. I am a trekkie. I am a conservative.
Logic cannot produce liberalism. So, other than Obama being supremely qualified to be second-in-command … I see no similarities.
SnakeDoc
I think Obama looks more like Dumbo than Spock.
Well, I can see that we all have a long way to go…
Well, Obama is half human………er half white, but has chosen to embrace his black, er…..vulcan side.
Anyhow, I say have him do a cameo in the new movie. Put hium alongside the Shat (;-))
Come on Bob, whaddaya say??
I don’t understand why Orci is being asked about President Obama’s “similarities” to Spock. Wrong guy to ask. Nimoy is sufficient enough–at least *he* KNOWS the character.
Kirk as Bush? WTF?? i’m gonna barf…
#27 — I agree!! And I “feel your pain”. Approval ratings in the tank and yet, they insist on shoving this guy in our face at every turn.
Give me a frakkin’ break….
I’m also not convinced on the extremes of global warming. I guess I’m just ticked that the IBO is making me teach about it.
I read this this morning and was wondering how long it would take to make this site, not long I see. And I also agree that the Bush/Kirk comparison isn’t very accurate. They were both gung ho but Kirk had a plan behind what he did, one that he never seemed to let people know about till after it had worked out. Bush just kinda went and did what he wanted and seemed to leave out the plan part. I agree that Kennedy was much more of a Kirk type. Not as gung ho, maybe, but he was the man that could inspire and lets face it, saved the day when the USSR (The Klingons of the real world) wanted to send nukes to Cuba. If anything I’d say Bush is more like McCoy, he sticks to what he believes in despite what others may think and without much logic.
#72
Kirk as Bush isn’t that far-fetched really. – That is, if compared to the sneering, skulking alter ego Kirk, depicted in “The Enemy Within.”
{{Rim-shot}}
Okay, close this thread. It’s died.
Christ, Obama is about as far from logical as you could get. One jackass decision after another. The only possible similarity is his lack of emotion- for anyone beyond his immediate family and group of suspicious cronies.
67. SnakeDoc – December 1, 2009
What cheap shot?
@44 boborci
It shouldn’t be a political matter but I suppose it is ahaha
I loves the whole SpockBama thing! Obama proves it! NERDS WILL RULE THE WORLD!
God people can’t grow up. Not only can a bunch of the people on here not keep from getting on their political soap box when something like this comes up, they get personal with it to. God knows I have strong political feelings but I take a hint from Spock and stick to the matter at hand and keep my feelings out of it.
Folks can say what they will about their gripes with Obama. I for one am still immensely enjoying the novelty of (once again) seeing a US President who can articulate himself clearly and effectively. If nothing else, that’s one quality I would want in a Science Officer.
#44
I am sure Obama will respond with logic and passion. Just because a cheater/culprit created confusion does not mean he is not a cheater/culprit. This is like the tobacco company that tried to convince the public that their product/actions are in no way shape or form responsible for death and cancer amongst the public who consume their products via addiction. You had the left hand wanting to be best friends with the tobacco company because of the money/revenue generatated via taxes and funding from the companies and then you had the right hand wanting to get rid of the cancer because of the impact on society and the citizens and increase in health care costs.
It is very simple no? Humans clear trees/rain forests for the benefit of a natural resource. The function of trees is to reduce CO2 levels no?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sink
The invention of the automobile/airplane and combustion increases CO2 levels no? and with fewer trees does this not impact global warming?
Industries and Govts that stand to lose money on this issue will try to confuse the public with missing data or “fabricated data.” If countries could make trillions going green, we would have seen this initiative long time ago, but there are still many developing countries and non developing countries that generate a great amount of GDP being non green.
When you have a balanced system that is imbalanced from un natural means and expect to have no side effects is insane, that is like drinking poison and expecting not to die.
The planet is alive and we unfortunately have been the cancer for the past 320 years. Perhaps it is really time for the planet earth to stop smoking. How are those underground tunnels and arcs coming along? Run for the hills!
I don’t see Obama as ANYTHING like Spock…
Well, one way Spock and Obama are alike, both rarely said a word without looking into some type of view to get an idea of what to say….
BOB ORCI:
I’m actually kinda crushed right now. I thought you were more conservative-leaning and not a liberal. This sucks!!!!
But I’m still a fan of your work….
I m sorry but this Obama/Trek stuff has to stop, you know, if he was all for what Spock was for he would increase funding to NASA, instead of giving massive bailouts to all the big corporations. All that money could have been put into putting us on the moon again tomorrow, and mars day after tomorrow.
Obama is not Spock.
Obama is Tuvok.
And Nancy Pelosi is Captain Janeway!
Would that make Biden to be Neelix?
#16
I always thought Kirk was inspired as being simply a cowboy in space. When the character Kirk was created, Gene would look at the popular 60s westerns and combined it with sci fi, “wagon to the stars.” I always thought he was to be the John Wayne of the future.
Marion Mitchell Morrison (May 26, 1907 – June 11, 1979), born Marion Robert Morrison, better known by his stage name John Wayne, was an American film actor, director and producer. He epitomized rugged masculinity and has become an enduring American icon. He is famous for his distinctive voice, walk and height. He was also known for his conservative political views and his support in the 1950s for anti-communist positions.
A Harris Poll released January 2009 placed Wayne third among America’s favorite film stars,[1] the only deceased star on the list and the only one who has appeared on the poll every year since it first began in 1994.
In 1999, the American Film Institute named Wayne 13th among the Greatest Male Stars of All Time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Western_films:_1960s
87. Penhall99 – December 1, 2009
What are you talking about? I compared a republican to the Captain of the Enterprise!
#88
If a leaky boat is not fixed, how can you survive and go to the Moon, Mars and beyond. Also do not think humans are ready to go beyond this solar system, gosh we often fight within our families, neighbors, and friends over materialistic items and lost love, we need to achieve a higher evolution before the time is right. Everything in due time, I guess. That is the great thing about Star Trek, it really is inspirational and gives us such a positive future to look forward to. A utopian world/society that works together to map the galaxy and beyond, free of violence, greed, and irrational thoughts/actions, benevolence over malevolence right?
Anthony don’t Iet the political debate that most of this comment section has turned into get you some people can’t seem to appericate that actually point of the article which is that it is cool that star trek has once again find it’s way into the mainstream.
91 –
Bob,
Way off topic here…but do you think we’ll ever see the Gorn again?
After the last 8 years, it’s understandable that Republicans are a tad sensitive; to the point of finding criticisms in places where none were issued.
94,
We almost did. There was a Gorn in a deleted scene on Rura Penthe.
96 – I don’t have the DVD. And if it’s deleted….we really didn’t see him the first time, right?
I think Kirk is more like a Kennedy or Ike then Bush!
Bob is there a Po sable way to get the Klingon’s into the next film?
Palin couldn’t even fill Yeoman Rand’s shoes!
97,
I used the word “almost” for a reason. No, we didn’t see it this time, but we might at some point in the future. But of course, people would whine about how it doesn’t look exactly like it does in the 60s.
My point:
There is always something to whine about, whether it be Trek, politics, or life in general. We’re a whiny species. And whether you’re conservative, liberal, socialist, communist, or even fascist, we are all still human. And every human will whine about something at some point, and someone else somewhere on some internet forum will have an opposing opinion. And it is our whininess that brings us all together.
Humans are illogical and irrational creatures. And we’re ALL human. Unless you’re an internet bot, in which case, we don’t want your kind on this forum!
Obami again????????
What, that makes it the 547th time this year?
Get back to sucking on it. Thats what you do best.
Obarmer doesn’t look like Spoooock!!
Barack Obama is probably the smartest President since Thomas Jefferson.
George W. Bush has a room temperature I.Q.
It’s absurd in the extreme to criticize the current POTUS.
Obama a Vulcan? No, he has the calculating reasoning one might expect of a Vulcan, but I believe his arrogance places him more closely to being a Romulan.
Seriously though, let’s cut the Obama worship. He’s a man, who is a President, whose ideas are well……debatable. Let’s keep how we regard our leadership within responsible guard rails. He’s not a god (although I will grant he’s been accused of thinking he is).
44 – >;>}
I appreciate you bringing that up. Unfortunately, a lot of science has been corrupted these days. Big money has tainted it. Those scientists that are not co-opted are ostracized almost to the point of being blackballed. Those who stand to profit from the carbon con are like McCarthy in the 50s. It is very difficult to discuss science these days without getting political.
That is one of the reasons I like TOS: there was always the higher road, a higher moral framework they would adhere, or try to adhere to, anyway: be it “I will not kill, today” or just the matter-of-fact idea that we overcame our problems and survived. I’d like to see more of that idea in the next Trek movie.
Science is a means to pursue the truth. To use it for any other purpose is invalid.
There’s another great similarity: Spock is half-Vulcan, half-human. Obama is half British subject, half US citizen.
101 – I’m not whining. I simply asked if we are likely to see the Gorn again.
Cut the nitpicking.
Yes we are human and humans, though capable of incredible good, are deeply flawed at times. Which is why througout generations people have fled and/or fought socialism, communism, and facism to come to the USA where there is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Freedom of religion, freedom from tyranny, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc….that is the cry of the human spirit. That’s why people flock to the United States.
People get a grip. Grow up and get out of the sandbox.
Typo – I meant to add freedom of speech. At any rate. I’m not trying to be adversarial. Bless you all.
108,
“I’m not whining.”
Oh don’t worry, I know. :D
I’m just unusually cynical tonight. These supposed-to-not-be-political threads always bring out the worst in me for some reason. And yet I flock to them. It’s in my nature to pry.
And I love this country, regardless of who’s at the helm. We should consider ourselves lucky to even HAVE a president. You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. If someone did manage to please everyone, then there’s probably corruption behind the polling system.
Protestors should remember they have the RIGHT to not get shot for protesting. In a lot of other places, it doesn’t usually end too well for the protestor.
Example: Napoleon and the use of grapeshot against a mob.
No similarities at all.
Spock is logical and scientific.
Obama is a politician. A position that embraces illogic and emotion.
110 – Agreed. Good points.
I think the last thing Star Trek needs to be compared to 21st century is politics. In the last century they where not as out of hand as they are now but I loved phrases like “Only Nixon can go to China.” Classic Trek there! But modern politics is about who can make the most and spend the most money and Star Trek is about neither because “We work to better ourselves…” – Capt. Picard ( ST: First Contact) This is why this franchise has touched so many lives around the world and I hope it stays that way. In the end I say don’t compare Kirk to Bush or Spock to Obama but compare them to society in general and see how they fit in into a society that we need; free of corruption and free from debt and free from our Solar System! Woohooo! Oh and by the way the picture was hilarious!
Anthony, even though you tried to discourage political bickering with your first post, people are still going to resort to political “flaming”. With all due respect,sir, when you do an article involving a political figure, especially a controversial president, then people will lash out in anger. Now, I don’t want or mean to tell you how to run your site, I would suggest that you leave politics at the door. No matter what rules you try to set, inevitably, they will be ignored by many. It’s just the way it is.
Now, I am going to say that if a character should be compared to Obama, a more appropriate comparison would be Batman from The Dark Knight.
When Bruce Wayne first took on the role of Batman in Batman Begins, people made him into a god-like figure. However, despite his best efforts to rid Gotham City of crime, people quicky became cynical and even angry at Batman for collateral damage despite the best of intentions. People began rallying around the Joker much like how Dick Cheney’s approval ratings have increased almost as much as President Obama’s has decrreased. This despite the fact that Obama tried to undo some of the previous administration’s actions regarding Guantanamo Bay detainees.
All this after less than a year in office. I’m not stating support for Obama ( I am not an American), all I can say is political beliefs are often founded on emotion.
And, finally, James T. Kirk and Spock, CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT be compared to any president or politician. They are far superior in my opinion.
# 114
I agree with everything except the Batman statement. Actually Batman in the Dark Knight was supposed to be an archetype for Bush believe it or not.
Dear TrekMovie,
I do appreciate your site and have found useful information regarding the new movie and future movies to come. I have also enjoyed the Trek stuff and the Sci-Fi, but as a regular visitor to this site I am going to express my distaste for this article and previous articles about this same topic. You stated in your first statement to leave the politics out of this article and yet politics were already involved when you (TrekMovie) made this post. You have in turn with your statement, sounded like a hypocrite when you made your post. I’m not looking to pick a fight but, like what Mr. ryanhuyton said, leave the politics at the door. If you don’t want a political debate to ensue then don’t bother making a post that has political views in it. I personally disagree with the comparison between Obama and Spock and therefore I find your post in of itself politically bipartisan. If you had posted someone else’s comments comparing Ronald Regan to Captain Picard, that would level the plying field and there would be some ground to stand on for your first post, otherwise stick to the Sci-Fi. It’s what I come here to read about and I get enough political discussion when I’m on Facebook or watching Fox News or MSNBC.
Thank You,
TrekMovie fan
Just to be clear…
the comments on this site are a tiny tiny fraction of the daily visitors. I will never ever let an unruly minority of those who comment ever dictate what we chose to post.
My comments was that for those who do chose to go into the comments, I always want this site to be a civil and inviting place where everyone agrees we come together as Trekkies.
my only agenda is to promote star trek, inform Trek fans as well as possible. And for those few (less than 1% of visitors) who want to jump into the community, to foster a lively but friendly place. It just saddens me that some people find that so difficult. But extremists of any kind will never change my editorial decisions.
#115 I understand that The Dark Knight was an analogy for President Bush’s military policies. But there are parallels that can also be drawn between the film and people’s response to President Obama and his policies, both domestic and foreign. Republican voters feel same way about Obama as Democrats feel about Bush. That is the great irony of The Dark Knight being that it was made to be an analogy of President Bush while now it works with Obama as well. And while he is popular around the world, Islamic exremists have been able to use his backgound for propaganda purposes. And as I already mentioned, Dick Cheney, who was once despised because of his policies, is now more popular than he was in office and is even more popular than Obama.
The point being, if a person is willing to prop himself up as a savior, like Bush when he removed Saddam Hussein from power, or Obama with attempts to reach out to Iran, then people will attempt to tear them down and make them the villian. That is the theme of the Dark Knight. All I’m trying to say is while Obama may share some characteristcs with Spock, his attempt to create change has created anger and fear amongst people.
That is the theme of The Dark Knight.
This proud liberal Democrat likes the comparison to Bush for Kirk. It shows a nice and unusual touch of nonpartisanship for a writer to actually make a favorable comparison to presidents of both parties, particularly between two consecutive ones.
I, for one, am far from a fan of Bush, but I’m sure others are far from fans of Obama. Complimenting both was not only the right thing to do, but the logical one ;).
OMG A conservative writing sequels for the almost socialistic utopia of Roddenberry’s Star Trek? -.-
Orci can be purple for all I care, I like his work.
Everyone has their favorite presidents, ideology, religion and what not for whatever reasons, to each their own.
@orci
Evidence for man made climate change exaggerated??
In some parts of our world we rather can find evidence that for a long time man made climate change was understated and hold back by politics and lobbyists, the change seems to develope faster than scientists predicted.
And then take to your notes that the sun activity reached a low point atm, now imagine what happenes when man made climate change and a rising sun activity come together.
Unfortunately it won’t happen for the next film, but say a few films down the line when President Obama has finished his term of office, wouldn’t it be great to have him as President of Starfleet in a future film?
Spock is ruled by logic… All politicians are ruled by greed and the need for power… Nuf said
116. Anthony
You have my respect for putting so much effort into this website.
This place is like a bar, with Star Trek as the drink of choice. Some people can’t handle their Star Trek, and have to dump their attitude in front of everyone.
I think the majority of people who visit here are civil and “good” Trekkies, and we can all agree to disagree at times. Those few who can’t handle their Star Trek are just annoying drunks, and you gotta let the bouncer take care of them.
In any case, this is my favorite bar.
PS: Hats off to Bob Orci, who continues to put up with the drunks…
Hey…I don’t hate the president. Just wish that “none of the above” would have been a ballot choice, though…
Hey Anthony. It is sad that people from the Far Left and Far Right have to try and cause problems here. Im not an Obama supporter. But I do Respect him as he is the Presedent and as such should be given that respect. If I have learned anything from Star Trek is to Respect your fellow man. Weather they be Black or White or Asian or Klingon or so forth. We can debate things here with out going crazy. I think think it is great that Presedent Obama is a Star Trek Fan and I for one hope he continus to talk more about Star Trek. Even though I do not Support Presedent Obama and most of his polocys I think he is doing the best job he can and I do love the fact he supports Science and is trying to make it cool for the new Generations of kids. He is doing fir todays kids what Trek did for the Kids of the 60s. Make it fun and imaginative.
Hey Anthony. I do not know if you have tried. But it would be so Kool if you could interview the Presedent about his love of Star Trek and what it has meant to him. Then post it here on Trek Movie. Have you had any plans or have you tried to contact the White House.
Hey Bob Orci. You should fins a way to get Presedent Obama in the next Trek Movie. Oh ok. Just a clip of him in a Video log or something. A Historicle event. Just a thought. What would you think.
121. Marcus
The fact is, we (meaning the mass of the population) do not really have any way to know whether global warming is real or not, simply because we get ALL of our information about it second-hand. We have to read about, or hear about global warming to get to where we feel we know anything about it. This is not the same thing as, say, when you have a cold and are experiencing that cold first-hand. You certainly may have heard about having a cold, but you are also in a position where you can actually have a cold.
I believe Bob might be referring to some recently uncovered information from Europe (I think), which pointed to numerous data that had been altered to support the global warming claims. Many people are calling for an investigation into this, but so far it is being given a tiny-little space in the bottom corner of the last page of the newspapers.
Consider another topic that is bound to stir up a lot of doggie-doo: I’ve recently been hearing more about Obama disclosing all of the US’s classified information about UFOs, which, supposedly, would confirm that the government has been covering-up the UFO subject for decades, and that our advancements in technology have all come about because of alien technology. At the same time, I have read various things about this UFO revelation as being the basis for a total government take-over. By dropping a UFO bombshell, then conditioning the populations with some sort of mind-control, we would wind up with a one-world government, and a united people, living in fear of an alien invasion.
Now, my point is: I don’t know the TRUTH about any of this. Everything I’ve heard is second-hand. And because it is experientially unprovable, I am able to chose which story I believe. And that choice is usually based on whichever I find a more reasonable story.
Populations of human beings, like all of us, have been, can be, and will continue to be, directed and manipulated through history, simply because we don’t have any way to know the truth. All that we know is what we hear, or read about. And those who are “creating” this truth, those who “manage” the world, do not appear to have humanity’s best interests at heart.
“… keep you doped with religion, and sex, and tv
and you think you’re so clever, and classless and free…”
John Lennon
Ya cause he clearly will be the savior of humanity, I mean he has already won a nobel….
Not a fan of these kinds of reporting….
If we all remember, in the Mirror Universe, the Empire fell under Spock’s rule and it was taken over by the Klingons and Cardassians.
@ 80 — “What cheap shot?”
“Leap before you look [Bush] versus reasoned analysis [Obama]” — for example.
Characterizing one political party as reasoned and the other as foolishly cavalier would seem to qualify as a shot at the party that supposedly leaped before they looked (whether the shot was “cheap” is, I suppose, a matter of opinion). And, that particular characterization is not the only one that could be drawn from the Kirk/ Bush vs. Obama/ Spock comparison — so it belied a political bias.
One could also characterize Bush/ Kirk as decisive and responsive to crises (decisiveness does not necessarily discount reasoned analysis), and Obama/ Spock as aloof, disconnected, and indecisive (as in taking 6-months to make a tactical determination with regard to Afghanistan).
But, that wasn’t your analysis … yours was that Bush leaped before he looked. Personally, I have no problem with your quote. You have the right to your opinions, just as I have the right to mine. Live and let live. I have a problem with a supposedly non-political Star Trek site posting it, and crying foul anytime someone has the audacity to disagree with the content of the quote.
If politics is inappropriate, politics is inappropriate. If it isn’t — it isn’t. But, I wouldn’t post political or ideological quotes and expect those that disagree to simply shut up about it.
SnakeDoc
Hasn’t Trek always been political?
TOS made political comments on issues (political/policy) of its day.
What I do agree with Anthony about is that we should avoid the personal and baseless accusations against individuals of any party and remain civil in our disagreements. Trek has never been one homogeneous society nor the happy humanistic utopia some might want to believe it portrays–if that were the case, then Trek would have been a very boring show (in spite of the opinions about Berman/Brannon’s contributions).
I am a conservative but appreciate good, honest discussions with my more liberal friends. My favorite authors are Asimov and Ellison so I resent accusations that all conservatives are closed-minded and ignorant–that is the kind of name-calling that fails to honor the spirit of Trek which has always contained elements of conservatism and liberalism in it like this great country we live in. I enjoy passionately talking about my beliefs (political or otherwise) but I want to do so in an environment that also respectfully disagrees without questioning one another’s (or politicians’) character. Now, with people who know me and my character personally we might have a little more fun that to outsiders appears disrespectful but we know each other and can do that–here we should show respect and be mindful of others looking in at what Trekkers are like and not give them more reason to think Trekkers are weird AND obnoxious.
While I disagree with most of Obama’s politics/policies I do know there are places we can agree (including Trek) and will fully support any efforts he makes in promoting good science. What does happen here is that for people who are willing to let their politics create an evil persona out of Obama instead of simple disagreement then comparisons to Trek unfortunately hurt the popularity of Trek because politics have become so divisive and require the kind of warning Anthony felt compelled to post to begin with. Why can’t Trekmovie.com become a shining example of how the common ideals of Trek can unite us in civil discussion not only of a future fictional universe but of the challenges currently before us?
@91 “What are you talking about? I compared a republican to the Captain of the Enterprise!”
That is true. But, that doesn’t mean the comparison wasn’t intended as a shot. You compared a Republican’s supposed tendency to not engage in “reasoned analysis”, and to “leap before you look” to the Captain of the Enterprise.
Whether that is a proper characterization of either Kirk or Bush is debatable. Personally, I wouldn’t characterize either as unreasoned — and while Kirk was certainly a “leap before you look”-type in Trek XI, I wouldn’t characterize Bush that way at all. He took a full-month to contemplate a military response to 9-11 (when many were calling for a much faster response), and gave Hussein a dozen-or-so chances at UN-compliance before moving into Iraq. Hardly an unmeasured response.
I could also compare Bill Clinton to the Captain of the Enterprise in that he’d likely sleep with any arguably female creature he could find. The fact that I compared him to the Captain of the Enterprise does not make the analogy any more flattering.
SnakeDoc
#65 Regarding the “Obama Neck Pinch” NO. However there is a Presidential pinch that is done to another part of the anatomy, perfected by President Bill Clinton, whether Obama uses it or not is yet to be seen.
#132 SnakeDoc: As one of the last twelve Bush supporters north of the Mason-Dixon line, I’ve got to disagree with you there. In fact, I would characterize the Bush Administration as “leaping before it looks.” That is, Pres. Bush would take action before having all desired information available. He would get as much information as he could in the time available to him, he would plan as much as he could, and then, when (what he saw as) the appropriate time for a decision came — the point at which (he believed that) waiting for more information would be more detrimental than acting — he acted. Pretty much just like James T. Kirk.
Sometimes this was good; sometimes it wasn’t. For instance, Bush invaded Afghanistan back when a significant minority of military strategists believed that terrain conditions in Afghanistan would make it impossible to disperse the Taliban and capture Kabul. The word “quagmire” was used constantly. Bush took this under advisement, but, believing that he had to act quickly to destroy the al-Qaeda terror network in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks (when no one really knew when the next attack might be coming), he ultimately decided against heeding it and invaded. The skeptics proved mostly wrong — we took Kabul 61 days after 9/11 and devastated al-Qaeda throughout the region — but they were partly proved right, in that it *has* proved difficult to win the peace. And that’s what Pres. Obama is now dealing with.
This is essentially the same calculus employed by Kirk in “The Immunity Syndrome” when he recommended that Scotty employ forward thrust in order to attempt to break the pull of the space amoeba. That decision bought them enough time to work out the true solution — that is, it mostly worked — but didn’t break them free and cost them a great deal of power –that is, it partly didn’t.
One could also draw parallels from the times that Bush/Kirk’s gut-based reactions did not work: for instance, the WMD fiasco in Iraq compared to Kirk’s decision to keep the shields down, despite regulation, as the Reliant approached in Star Trek II.
So, yes, Bush leaped before he completely looked, in very much the same way that Kirk did. This is neither a compliment nor a criticism; it’s just a personality trait. It leads to goods, like decisiveness, responsiveness, and good results, and also evils, like rashness, unnecessary losses, and evil results. Similarly, Obama’s Spock-like rationalist analysis of leading issues is simply a trait, which can in turn lead both to goods (wise, prudent decision-making) and to evils (aloofness, indecisiveness).
I strongly maintain that Mr. Orci was not criticizing Pres. Bush. Indeed, he was paying ol’ 43 a very high compliment, in the same vein as the one he paid Pres. Obama. It remains a statement that I very much appreciate.
And here I promised not to get involved in talking about actual political details. But I can’t be lettin’ my man Orci get raked when he was actually being the first Trek producer to say something nice about Republicans in recent memory. ;)
Respectfully, James.
P.S. In other news, this information about the East Anglia climate change evidence-suppressing chicanery has indeed made interesting reading this week. I wonder what we’d find in all the hundreds of other unhacked climate-related email accounts the world over.
8
that Onion clip was funny as hell :)
@136 … “He would get as much information as he could in the time available to him, he would plan as much as he could, and then, when (what he saw as) the appropriate time for a decision came — the point at which (he believed that) waiting for more information would be more detrimental than acting — he acted. Pretty much just like James T. Kirk.”
Fair enough. But, I wouldn’t characterize that as “leaping before he looked” … as it is clear that both Kirk and Bush looked at the information that was available when decision-time came. They looked. They leaped.
SnakeDoc
127,
I second that. If you could get even a short interview with Obama, that’d be amazing. I’m sure it’d be a relief for him to talk Trek, rather than about wars, health care, etc. for once.
Not to mention, it would launch this site through the roof.
Both are fictitious. The character Spock is created by a writer. The character Obama is created by a writer (teleprompter). Both would be nothing but for those behind the scenes who write their scripts.
#138 SnakeDoc: Fair enough. I definitely agree — both men looked, and looked closely. They just didn’t look for as long as Spock (for Kirk) or Obama (for Bush) would have liked. Sometimes that was prudent, and sometimes it was rash, but, either way, I’m pretty sure that’s what boborci was getting at. IMHO, you’re right that he could have phrased it more precisely, but this was an AP interview about Star Trek and US politics, not the Summa Theologica, so a bit of imprecision is right and proper here. It was still a very generous thing to say about our last president, particularly given his continued unpopularity in Hollywood and the press.
#140- On the same page, we are!
( I work with politicians- on the inside- it is SO true.)
Spock is a fictional genius, Obama isn’t, get this political trash off star trek news.
@ 143. I think I would be willing to entertain the characterization of Obama as a fictional genius. Haha.
SnakeDoc
Zombie Ronald Reagan 2012.
#115: Ditto!!! Well spoken!
@129
Of course global warming is quite a complicated field.
For the normal guy these scientific studies are merely understandable. But I don’t know any serious scientist that still denies the effect. Those who deny are either politicians or lobyists from industrial companies.
Considering second hand information: It’s the same with atoms, DNA, relativistic effects etc. pp. Nobody has any instrumts at home that would be able to measure them, though they exist. We only have second hand information about global warming, but assuming we had the same intelligence and the same instruments (computers, satellites, etc.) the scientists are using everyone could repeat their tests and come to about the same conclusions.
Maybe some scientists come to a very strong global warming, and some to a weaker global warming, but it doesn’t matter if we still have very much or very few time until we reach the breaking point , assuming we want to give our children a wealthy life acting never ever comes too early.
Protecting our environment can only be too late, but never too early ;)
To find out which truth might be more properly there is one I think quite locial method: Find the biggest incentives.
What is the biggest incentive (money) for lobbyists that try to influence politics?
And of course economies on our whole word (including europe) have a very strong incentive to cover up negative environmental effects of any kind. Because regulations to protect the environment cost a lot, a lot of money for many industries. And exactly that happened in the last decades.
If you want to find a conspiracy, then it is more properly that global warming was covered up for a very long time. Scientists already knew about it in the beginning of the 90s, 20 years later almost nothing happened, because politics were corrupted.
My opinion:
Star Trek always was pro environmentalism & pro animal protection (Star Trek IV).
If Star Trek touches global warming there only can be one story: pro environmentalism.
Either environment protection or leave global warming alone and make a different story!!
Star Trek’s image made it possible that they even were allowed to shoot in the national park in STV, Star Trek has to keep that positive image.
Spock hung out with radical Leftist hippies who turned out to be much more nefarious and even murderous than the peace and love persona they put on, just like the Prez
Dr. Sevrin, duplicitous radical posing as peace loving space hippie using his dopey flock for the sole purpose of galactic power
Bill Ayers, duplicitous, murderous, radical posing as peace loving hippie using his dopey flock for the sole purpose of political power
Great article Anthony , think you nailed it!!!
Spock, who earned and was granted the honor of admission to the Vulcan Science Academy would easily see through the grand hoax of Global Warming.
Obama? Um, not so much.
147. Markus
I don’t believe global warming is an issue of conspiracy, in the sense something is being covered up. The contention behind global warming — that man-made intervention is responsible for climate change
— is the root of the issue, IMO. Certainly, it is likely that an assortment of environmental problems might be covered up because of whatever negative effects might be the result. But I do not believe that is the end of it.
I am no expert on the matter of climate change. Again, what I know about it, I have either heard or read. IF, however, (and I did say ‘if’), there is evidence that FOR SOME REASON documentation and data regarding global warming has been discovered which indicates that the “facts” were altered, deleted, or misrepresented in order to deliberately support the contention that made-made intervention is responsible for climate change, then we need to know what that is all about. The question “Why do they want everyone to buy into global warming IF it is not a true
threat?” is just as legitimate a question as “Why won’t these other people accept that global warming is a fact?”
In either case, our mission SHOULD be one of protecting the planet, supporting all forms of life, and, otherwise, cleaning up our messes. But this mission should not need to have a $-bill attached to it. In spite of all mankind’s genius, he is not smart enough to figure out how to do things without the necessity of making a buck.
149.
Putting aside politics, doesn’t the equivalent of the Vulcan Science Academy in real life (i.e., any of the major scientific communities internationally) support Global Warming?
The key issue with global warning (or now vague term climate change) has been there appears to be less emphasis on presenting verifiable data and on more emphasis on belittling and attacking those who challenge the idea. Challenging an idea is a vital part of science. The reaction of the climate change supporters has been to attack the questioners, not to logically defend the theory. There is a great deal of profit to be made from the carbon credit trade. I have never understood how paying to pollute fixes anything. They aren’t paying the Earth, they are just paying each other.
There are already enough reasons to find ways to stop the pollution and other negative effects. The bad data and name calling in the carbon issue just deflects from that. There are plenty of recognized and verifiable reasons to get off fossil fuels, end deforestation, clean up the pollution, we don’t need the easy carbon credit monopoly money scheme; we need to actually fix the problems.
Yeah, well I don’t think Spock would have spent us into a hole so deep we may never dig ourselves out. That isn’t logical.
Neither is this story for that matter. Star Trek news? Hardly. More like silly wishful thinking from hardcore fans who probably would be better off heading to the library and get out of the house once in a while.
There is no reason to deny global warming. None at all. No one is making money off of it. Temps are rising, ice-caps are disappearing, etc. Empirical facts. The current cooling phase threatens to undermine the message, for sure. No biggie.
However, those who must deny its existence to keep shareholders happy MUST spend millions on making sure the facts are obscured. The phrase “we must reduce our dependence on fossil fuels” is anathema to an oil company executive in the same way that a large cigarette warning label bugs a tobacco company exec.
Society has developed under the watchful eyes of corporations these past two centuries. That’s why you need a car to eat in most parts of the USA. That’s one reason people are getting fat. Sitting in fuel-inefficient cars for extended periods of time instead of walking/biking on our disappearing suburban sidewalks. And gas is taxed just like tobacco and booze. I wonder why? The US should follow the European model and tax gas until each tankful of regular costs $120 or more. Buy a bike or take a bus. Walk to the Krispy-Kreme instead of driving, fatso.
It doesn’t matter, as we’ll all be driving Chinese electric cars in 20 years anyway. Because someone there, today, realizes they can finally profit from global warming. And when that catches on, the world will make a step-change for the better. Flawlessly logical, IMHO.
Hey Anthony,
If you didn’t want any partisan debates, you should not have posted this article about the most under-qualified person to occupy the White House (And it is showing).
I, for one, did not fall for the Chosen One’s slogan’s and empty suit. True change comes in 2012.
A.J. – do the rest of us normal folks a favor and do the logical thing….Move to China now and drive their electric car over there. Also, please take all the climate change kooks with you – you’re secret is out now- Climate change/global warming is a hoax designed to control the lives of regular folks while syphoning money away from the U.S. – I’ll keep my freedom and you can keep the change or better yet, take that to China with you.
I’m curious about something, so I’m going to ask:
Why the hate for whatever political opinions the actors/production staff of Star Trek happen to hold? I, quite frankly, could give a felgercarb about whatever positions most of them happen to hold but several folks who post here seem outraged that they have opinions and voice them, given the opportunity. Either I agree with their positions or I don’t, but I certainly don’t get my boxers in a twist about it. It’s really no different than the staff of churches espousing their political beliefs and I hold the political opinions of both in about the same regard -practically none, for the most part. Is it actually threatening for them to hold whatever opinions they have?
CSM
Chrysler is now an Italian company after the Germans discarded it. GM is selling brands (Hummer) to China, mulling over selling Corvette to Toyota, and discontinuing Saturn, Pontiac and Saab, and Ford is barely treading water. The USA has had this tech for years, but Big Oil has kept it out of the mainstream. Why do I see ads touting Michigan as pro-hi-tech on TV all the time? Because they are assuming most car companies will be foreign-owned soon. It’s a tragedy.
And read my message. i want the US to succeed. China has declared the electric car as a serious goal in this decade. Has GM? Well, they fired the CEO yesterday because he can’t close any deals or make big decisions.
I don’t understand what “freedom” has to do with the argument. I just feel the US is being left behind by the rest of the world. You’re free to drink Budweiser (Belgian company), drive your Hummer (Chinese company) and dip your Grizzly (Swedish company) while filling up at Shell (Dutch company).
That’s the end. It’s a Star Trek thread, anyway.
Hey, didn’t Killface cure global warming in that Frisky Dingo episode?
But seriously, the true test will come if he decides to cut major NASA initiatives. He will then be on my shit list forever, and the Spock comparison will END.
#154 Your wrong, money is at the very heart of the global warming arguement. What do you think “Cap & Trade”is? It uses global warming as an excuse to tax energy and create a socialist society world wide. Grow up already.
Dunno, Spockobama seems kind of a stretch – but It really shouldn’t surprise that somewhere in meeting Associated Press’ mandatory 234987232 Obama-articles-a-day quota they’d have bottom of the barrel days. Don’t get me wrong, I can see where the comparisons are coming from, but I can’t shake the feeling of “square-peg-to-round-hole” in terms of actual ideological similarities versus the hack job we have to do make it all fit. Humorous and curious at best, and ‘WTF?!’ at worst (judging by some reactions). It’s a real briar-patch of twisting, entwining comparisons and metaphors. It’s keeping folks talking about Trek at least.
#43 – BTW, loved your comment – interesting and well thought out comparisons to be sure.
-24th CRS!
@150
“I don’t believe global warming is an issue of conspiracy, in the sense something is being covered up.”
At least not anymore.
There were times big companies paid a lot of money that politicians didn’t care that much about climate change, but also other environmental problems. Climate change isn’t the only one.
Nowadays the fact that man made climate change happens became too farly accepted throughout scientists to deny it anymore, even some conservatives don’t do that anymore (at least those who say they were conservative. Environmental protection once was a conservative topic – protection of god’s creation they once called it)
Where data is altered it usually goes about the “how fast”, “how dramatic” and not that much about “is it true”
And where we totally lose sight: Those emmissions that should cause climate change are dangerous for our environment even when they wouldn’t cause climate change, because they usually are toxic.
Don’t you just love extremism?
#163 – This thread isn’t bad at all really. We’ve seen snarkier threads erupt over the size of warp nacelles after all! XD
- 24thCRS!
@ #164 – which reminds me, did you see the centerfold in this month’s issue of Nacelles Magazine? Whoooeeee!!!!!
But, yeah, seriously – considering the frakked up insanity of the extremist right and the extremist left, I’m surprised it’s stayed this civil.
Politics, blah blah blah! bonk bonk!! blah blah blah!!
Discussing politics on a Trek board is the most boring foolie of all. BONK BONK!!!
If the President is so gung-ho about science and math, why doesn’t he take a few billion of those war dollars and create scholarship programs for the worthy and potentially great children of this country?
I agree with others who think of Obama more as Picard than Spock. This is reinforced even more in the TNG two parter Reunification where Picard criticizes Spock for his and Kirk’s cowboy diplomacy.
Gawd, i’m such a geek….
#165 – I’d like to get my hands on a pair of HER ample nacelles, wink wink nudge nudge! :P
@ #168 – And thankfully her Engineering decks don’t look like a brewery! ;-)
I don’t know if its possible to really do on this site, but I’d suggest just banning people who decide to start flaming because of a post like this. People have been warned enough times and nobody’s forcing them to read this kind of article, let alone post hateful comments about it.
162:
Depends which conservatives you’re referring to. Some think the world is 5,000 years old, and that its resources are ever-plunderable until the rapture whisks them away to that great Wal-Mart in the sky.
It would be nice to agree that scientific facts and figures are just so. But corporate profits will always do what they can to fight any perceived reality which could affect the P&L and future share price. I used to work in Big Tobacco, and I have seen independent non-corporate-funded studies confirming the non-toxicity of second-hand smoke during normal exposure. Does it make you cough? Yes. Can it bring on an asthma attack? Yes. So can exercise or cold air. But breathing it in is harmless. Or is it? What about those other studies? As long as there is money being made, usually on both sides, we’re all pawns in the game.
The new FDA law on tobacco was drafted by Philip Morris and signed by Obama. Guess who won that one? It is the single most brilliant play by Big Tobacco ever perpetrated. The FDA wants to reduce nicotine levels in cigarettes to combat addiction. Tobacco companies know that reduced nicotine levels increase consumption. Bingo.
Spock would gather his own facts and make his own conclusions, as should we all, it seems.
boborci, how about making the next Trek an allegory for Israel and Palestine? Since the Vulcans are colonizing a new planet now that their home was destroyed, what about a native race that Spock Prime was unaware of is already on the planet he picked out?
Somewhat unrelated but I hadn’t seen this reported here yet: Harlan Ellison is offering to write the script for the next movie! Story here: http://www.aceshowbiz.com/news/view/00029256.html
RE: interviewing Obama
Don’t see that happening any time soon. I actually did send in a request during the campaign after he made his first comments about Trek, but never got a reply from his press office. I imagine that doing an interview with a star trek site is probably not good pr for him.
RE: Leap before you look versus reasoned analysis
I really dont see how people can get up in arms over things and I really think people are just looking to be offended.
In STAR TREK Pike tells young James T. Kirk that he sees in him a quality of his father, the ‘look before you leap’ confidence, which Pike notes is something he feels Starfleet needs more of. Bob was just noting that Kirk and Spock have different qualities, not that one is good and one is bad
Some people are so partisan that the mention of the name of any politician seems to set them off.
Can’t people step back and have a discussion about politicians and be objective, without turning it into attacks, accusations, namecalling and angry partisanship?
RE: Romney
It is interesting to hear that he made Trek comments. I cant find any reference to comments he has made in public about Trek. That being said, he does seem to have a logical spock vibe about him as well. Hopefully he will make a trek comment in the next campaign.
RE: Ellison
reported over a week ago
http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/24/harlan-ellison-wants-to-help-out-with-star-trek-sequel/
btw, This site has a search function in the upper right corner
The whole idea of Kirk and Spock (and McCoy, Dammit!) is not to show them as disparate elements, but as the perfect whole comprising the some of its parts.
Kirk is Starfleet’s greatest captain because of Spock. Because of McCoy. He’ll grow beyond the capabilities of his father because of Spock’s ability to divine facts out of possibilities, and McCoy’s utter compassion and conscience. It’s all been written before.
@ #174 re:
“Some people are so partisan that the mention of the name of any politician seems to set them off.
Can’t people step back and have a discussion about politicians and be objective, without turning it into attacks, accusations, namecalling and angry partisanship? ”
Anthony, unfortunately it seems like modern american politics consists of blind adherence to the party position and the extreme vilification of the opposing side. It’s more of a blood sport and a religion than an attempt to govern in the interests of the common weal. Personally, I took the article as an innocuous piece about the fact that the current POTUS happens to like Star Trek and it’s connection to some science policy initiatives, nothing more and nothing less. The crazies out there sure made for some interesting reading in the comments though. I myself far prefer to get worked up and insult people over the crucial issue of Riverside, Iowa. Now THAT is a disaster! ;-)
155.
Really? Most under-qualified? What about Harding, who was elected precisely because he LOOKED but didn’t even sound presidential. Or Kennedy, whose history in politics was at least as short as Obama’s?
Obama is certainly inexperienced. But so were these people. And so was Alexander the Great or Elizabeth I, though granted, they were literally RAISED to be statesmen.
Argue if you want about Obama’s policies. But saying he’s the most underqualified person is hyperbole just as saying that Bush is the least intelligent occupied of the White House is.
#172
I would rather barf and watch cnn, please no. Star Trek 2009 worked so well because it wasn’t political, look at this board, most people show their real colors and hatred just bringing up the fact that the elected president is similar to a character in Star Trek, gosh people get a grip.
#156
Perhaps some education would help you normalize your hatred and ignorance, has Star Trek taught you anything?
This board could be a simple litmus test as to whether or not the public is ready for a political allegory and that answer is no.
178:
Yes, but experience can be LEARNED, where as stupid is FOREVER!
132. SnakeDoctor – December 2, 2009
@ 80 — “What cheap shot?”
“Leap before you look [Bush] versus reasoned analysis [Obama]” — for example.
——–
Out of context, you may have a point. But since Pike says, “that’s a quality missing in Starfleet…” not quite so obvious, in my humble opinion.
Mr. Orci,
At the end of the new film, is Pike permanently wheel-chair bound, or is he just recuperating from injuries?
182. jimbeammeup – December 2, 2009
Curious to find out myself.;)
Zombie Ronald Reagan isn’t going to wait around for all this debate about global warming mumbo jumbo and public option health care googely moogely. He just wants to eat dem brains, dammit!
How’s that for extreme?
No politician is like Spock, because Vulcans don’t lie. (And half-Vulcans exaggerate, at worst.)
#182
Kirk is to report to Admiral Pike at the end of the movie, so I would guess, Pike will have some screen time. Perhaps Pike becomes that fatherly figure for this reality that Kirk never had, I mean the Kirk in the prime universe would not have turned out so great without inspiration and lessons learned from his father right? Who better to help Kirk go on the right path then the man who inspired and challenged him to join star fleet in the first place, other than Pike?
BTW Kirk is smarter than Bush and evolved to be more of a hero at the end of Star Trek 2009. Gene would be turning in his grave if he found out or heard that Kirk being compared to Bush, Kirk imo is King Arthur/John Wayne in space! A boy destined for greatness, saves earth and the federation countless of times.
Maybe obama is like the spock of TOS, but not the spock of the new movie. I’m not a fan of obama, but I if he is focused on kids realizing math and science are cool, then I can’t complain.
BTW I agree that Obama is similar to Spock. Many countries respect Obama greatly over past leaders, simply by him being open minded/logical and respecting other cultures and values. Also to act in unison with the UN, something that has failed previous administrations. Perhaps in time folks would not be afraid o put a US flag on their backpack versus a Canadian flag.
“”We knew he was a Trekkie,” Orci said in a telephone interview. He said he watches the White House regularly for insight on the Spock character.
“To have a case study like that on the news every night makes my job a lot easier,” he said.”
LOL. Maybe you should actually watch TOS for insight on the Spock character. Jesus Christ.
While I can appreciate the President’s similarities to Spock, even Mr. Spock understood the importance of brevity and letting the experts in their field make certain decisions.
It is my opinion that the President should have given the General of his choice, McKrystal, all the troops he needed as soon as he asked for them – which was over three months ago.
I got the strong feeling from his speech last night that the President was trying to do the minimum commitment to keep anti-war liberals happy and just enough to keep the conservatives happy, but not giving much focus on what the soldiers want – which is all the support needed to finish the job as fast as they can and get back home as fast as they can.
The whole situation to me, while it makes sense from the point of view of a politician who wants enough brownie points to get re-elected, from the point of view of what a good leader should do, is confusing and quite frankly – illogical…
#190
It is very tough to win a battle/war when the enemy is within the population and hiding, you can’t win via genocide and you can’t win by staying and fighting and can’t by leaving, no battle/war has ever been won by occupying a foreign land. There is no simple answer to this, there will always be fighting as long as their are extremists who think help is not needed and help is only hidden in the means of a different agenda. You pull out, you lose, you stay and fight you lose, it is really a no win scenario. Whoever you put in charge will be faced with the same tough task of trying to please everyone.
Fighting helps generate GDP, helps boost economy in the short term, no fighting means lack of production and a dip in the economy. Do you think it is a coincidence that both world wars always happen during a economic slump, ie depression?
No fighting also means, terror is bred and we can’t have that either, now you know why Star Trek is so awesome, a world united, free of violence and greed working together for the good of mankind.
lol, this article and talkback are full of wtf. Spock’s similarities to Obama. Geez. Get a life. All of you. Immediately.
I don’t think this website is very fair and balanced. I’ve seen posts deleted over and over today that the liberal master of this site doesn’t seem to agree with. There seems to be a clear preference…a liberal one.
Interesting articles, Anthony – thanks for posting.
Too bad so many people couldn’t follow your guidelines against political comments in their posts. Makes me wonder if you shouldn’t just disable comments on these kinds of articles in the future.
maybe obama could play a vulcan in the next trek movie, how about it jj
Spock just lacks the guile to compare to a politician of either party. Sure, he might trick a guard on some backwater planet into letting him apply the Nerve Pinch. But he doesn’t go in for focus groups, preferring to offend by speaking the unvarnished truth. He’s uncomfortable pretending to be someone he’s not. He’d rather face court martial than sell out his principles. Only Mirror Spock delegates nasty intra-Enterprise hatchet jobs to Rahm Emanuel types. And Spock is humorless and unhip enough to be the furthest thing from a guy carrying an iPod with Jay-Z on it.
As for the Bush thing: I thought it was unfortunate when “Enterprise” jumped on the post-9/11 mood, treating Archer as a petulant boy-general fighting back against the U.N.-like rules of the Vulcans. Trek should avoid tapping into the political mood, at least in any obvious way. Even Nick Meyer expresses reservations in his new book about the way the Cold War stuff in VI has dated.
And I will throw out there that “A Private Little War,” “The Omega Glory,” and other explicitly political episodes are not popular favorites. Trek as a political allegory is sort of like Star Wars as mythology…a little drop of it is OK, but too much and you get virgin Jedi births, Bajoran-Cardassian international relations, and the Yangs reading the U.S. Constitution on Omega IV.
181. boborci – December 2, 2009
“Out of context, you may have a point. But since Pike says, “that’s a quality missing in Starfleet…” not quite so obvious, in my humble opinion.”
Quite right. Let’s not forget that Kirk and Spock are less analogous to Presidents, and more accurately Naval Officers. When he had the opportunity in season one, Gene Coon obviously imbued Kirk with the characteristics of the Marine Officers that Coon encountered in World War II: Justice, judgment, decisiveness, integrity, dependability, tact, initiative, enthusiasm, bearing, unselfishness, courage, knowledge, loyalty, and endurance. The ability to think on his feet, make creative decisions, and look out for his men. And the spirit of military camaraderie is evident in the humorous jabs that McCoy, Spock, and Kirk shared at the end of the best episodes. Few places are as uproariously funny as a group of Marines, soldiers, airmen, or sailors when they are sitting around poking fun at each other. I would hope some small level of that ethic and atmosphere returns with the future films. Bob could do worse than spending some time at the bar with some Marines off duty, and soaking up some local color. They are Kirk. (And they love the early Kirk, by the way)
Anthony, as I said earlier, if you don’t want people to flame or be offended by politics on this site, then don’t put up articles featuring ANY POLITCAL FIGURE. Heck, people get worked up about STAR TREK articles that have nothing to do with politics. People still get worked up over the fact that the new movie takes place in a new timeline, or the fact that J.J Abrams did not adhere slavishly to the TOS interiors when designing new sets. It only stands to reason then that people will “flame” about something that is contentious as politics. Politics is as devisive as religon. You cannot have it both ways. You either have to accept the fact people will disagree vehemently or even rudely or just forget about putting up an article such as this. I know that I sound like I’m flaming, and I have enjoyed this article, but it is the nature of the beast I have tried to point out.
And on the issue of climate change, all scientists do agree that it is occuring. The fact that the polar ice caps are melting at a fast rate and that polar bears are cannibalizing each other into extinction is absolute proof of this. There are places in the world,specifically poor countries and small islands, where the damage is being most felt. Unfortuneately, money talks and lobbyist have been able to convince politicians to be ignorant of the problems all around us.
#155: “True change comes in 2012.”
When Obama will be re-elected. :-)
BOB ORCI #91
Point taken. Thanks!
#197 – Dunno dude, it really doesn’t look that incendiary to me – a little heated here and there, a little stretchy here and there, but not so bad. Pound-for-pound we’ve STILL seen more vitrol and venom spewed over the JJ-verse Enterprise design, or especially (and I LOVE bringing this up every chance I get!) the Trek After Dark articles Anthony was trying for a while.
#168 – Which brings me to you – if you missed out on the last ‘Trek After Dark’, you fancy a lolz, and have a love of ‘nacelles’ – check out the TrekMovie archives here – http://trekmovie.com/2009/06/05/trekmovie-after-dark-trek-xxx-mr-skin-trek-trek-corsetss-st09-erotic-fanfic – it’s proooobably NSFW, but THAT was an article that rubbed more than one person the wrong way (pun!). Anthony P had to straight up boot somebody out for trolling under different names and agreeing with himself under the assorted pseudonyms just to keep things hostile.
So yes, things could be a lot worse. I think it speaks well of the Trek community that we’re not so polarized by our own political values that we have no common ground – the common ground IS Trek!
If anything, maybe the pundits have a thing or two to learn from US, you know?
That’s what keeps things in perspective – we’ve got REAL things to bitch about XD – like Kirk or Picard, or the JJ-prise bridge design, or just HOW naked CAN you get an Orion slave girl on-screen before it’s too much, or “Ye Old Montgomery Scott’s Warp Core Distillers Company”, or those freaking k-razy nacelles!!
You know, the issues! XD
- 24thCRS!
@175–Anthony, I should have known your were on the ball about Ellison (I just came across a “new” article and assumed you hadn’t seen it yet–should have known they probably hijacked it from somewhere else . . . or Trekmovie).
Next time, I will “look (search) before I leap (post)!” :)
197. ryan
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Anthony’s choice of subject matter, nor do I think he should have to censor what he presents. His very first post was a plea for us to comment on the “Trek-ian” aspect of Obama’s interests, and not on the politics. Obviously, some people can’t follow instructions, but I still do not feel that is reason to avoid such topics.
I believe the reason people become so polarized over matters like religion and politics is because we are not truly informed. Thus, we rely on our opinions, which are on shaky ground, at best. As I mentioned in another post, most of us are not privvy to actual, first-hand knowledge about things. We know what we are told, or what we hear, and we cannot always trust what we see because there is so much “behind closed doors” stuff going on in the world. From such a position, it is easy to start ranting about liberals, or conservatives, or whatever, but neither side truly knows what they are talking about…
Meanwhile, as for the global warming issue, I do not believe ALL scientists agree that it is occuring (go to Wikipedia for “A List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming”). Again, we are not in a position of being able to ascertain the TRUTH, because we can only know what we are given, and then we either believe it or disbelieve it. That is not how one comes to know the truth about something.
As I see it, the earth has been in existence for some 4-5 billion years, and mankind has been producing technology for about 60 years (if you don’t count the discovery of fire, or the wheel). In the grand scheme of things, I question how much actual damage mankind could do to the planet’s make-up in such a relatively short amount of time.
While I agree that mankind has not treated the planet (or each other) with much respect and consideration, I simply question (as do others) about the validity of humanity affecting climate change, or is the earth simply going through its own inherently designed cycles, or whatever…
194 – Yes John – SIlence the critics! Silence all who are not of the body……It is the will of Obama, I mean Landru.
#201
Try 320+ years (count start since industrial revolution). You also have to factor in the deforestation and use of fossil fuels and the increase of humans born each year, it’s a scary multiplier. Just think of it this way, the planet started to get second smoke 320 years ago and is suffering from cancer. CO2, PCBs, Plastics, Atomic waste, Styrofoam etc. It’s very simple, you smoke you get cancer, don’t let the tobacco companies fool you with their propaganda to make money. The evidence has been pointed out to the depletion of the ozone layer a layer that is designed to protect inhabitants on earth, evidence in the melting of polar ice caps. If you remove the human equation you have a healthy planet.
Funny in this day and age, with the science and information available, there are people who still think smoking does not cause cancer. We also know, plastics and Styrofoam cause cancer too, how far fetch of a idea is that we are doing harm not only to ourselves but to the planet we live on.
Humans are like a virus, you muliply and consume all the resources until everything is gone and move onto the next location. We are the cure.
-Agent Smith
197 – The polar bear population has INCREASED FIVE FOLD in the last 30 years! Even in the lies there is the truth if you will only look to see it. The organization Polar Bears International states that populations here and populations there have decreased (ignoring the aggrevgate increase) , then they tell on themselves when desribing polar bears as “having no boundaries”.. Hey – they migrate – WOW! Decrease here – increase there, but they only focus on the decrease so the claim can be made – Logical, flawlessly logical (NOT!) Just like the data at UAE about “Climate Change” – Use the data that suites your agenda and ignore the rest – or worse yet destroy it!
201 – Be careful when you use words such as “design” when refering to the Earth – such usage offends those who are “of the body” The Earth (to them) is a cosmic accident as are we, there is no design, intellegent or otherwise. Be careful so that you are not “Absorded” (sensored)
You can easily build a computer simulation and input x,y,z pollutants and run time forward and see the domino effects it has on a habitat and to the atmosphere/earth.
You can also take existing data and run it backwards, or better yet, build a lab replica of earth and reproduce all the nasty chemicals humans pump out and observe the effects on the lab mice or whatever and see what kind of changes occur to the surrounding environment.
Gosh, this would make a great thesis for a PHD. You will probably be surprised with the results, a) damage done to the subject via chemicals, b) damage done to environment via chemicals and c) environment fighting back to kill organism producing chemicals, wow. and d) environment trying to reset by generating additional trees etc., healing cycle. if d) fails, environment sends a distress call to a alien probe and destroys all evil organisms. e) organisms build underground cities to avoid elimination.
Wow. I can’t think of another article or another time where I was more turned off by some of the comments. Tuning out now. Thanks.
Note to Anthony Pascale: This article has been picked up by The Huffington Post and is being used for “political purposes.”
Gee, what a Surprise!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/02/obama-spock-comparison-a-_n_377405.html
StarFury
Well the HP subscribes to AP so that is no surprise. The article appeared all over the web and in dozens (maybe hundreds) of newspapers across the country.
Interestingly the left wing website DailyKos saw this article as an example of the ANTI-Obama bias of AP
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/2/809710/-Science-%28Fiction%29-From-The-Associated-Press
I know some people are desparate to gleen some kind of political agenda or bias out of posting this, but to me this article is no different than the other articles on the same day, with Star Trek actors named “Sexiest Men” by people or the Science Channel show full of Star Trek connections. It is all “Star Trek in the zeitgest” something TrekMovie has always reported on. The fact that this has quotes from nimoy and Orci only makes it even more relevent.
Again, please put aside blind partisanship and just look at things objectively. Mostly this is an article about star trek and science. But Trek connections to presidents is nothing new. Cant people have a discussion without getting so worked up.
It’s politics, Anthony. People on both sides are gonna get worked up, no matter what. That’s the way things are today, and thats the way they’ll probably be from now on.
212. Penhall99
“…It’s politics, Anthony. People on both sides are gonna get worked up, no matter what. That’s the way things are today, and thats the way they’ll probably be from now on…”
I really hope you are wrong about this…
Anthony, you don’t need to defend your decisions. This is Trek News.
I do think all computers (and monitors) come with an off switch. And, if I remember correctly, webpages can be closed by clicking the small X in the right corner of the window.
Thanks for the post and the work you do for us at TrekMovie.
#175.
And posted in the comments even earlier. ;-)
Comparing the current president to Spock, also by the actor who played Spock no less, is clearly intended to be positive, flattering and favorable to Obama and has obvious political implications, as was intended by Nimoy and Orci, yet Anthony discouraged political commentary by posters here who happened upon this article.
I refrained from even looking at this particular article or commenting on it until today once the Huffington Post piece was brought to my attention by someone else on another board. I can understand Anthony’s not wanting a war about politics erupting on his site for him to then have to be bothered with dealing with, however, rogue-alice, it is also somewhat disingenuous to ask that people refrain from commenting in response to it from a political standpoint when the political implications of this *endorsement* are blatantly obvious to all.
182 – “At the end of the new film, is Pike permanently wheel-chair bound, or is he just recuperating from injuries?”
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I think he gets out of it. I saw him doing hard farm labor the other night in a Hallmark Special.
how many times do i have to say this site has one agenda: star trek
stop seeing what isnt there. As noted above, the ‘left wing elite’ actually see this article as anti-obama.
I don’t give a sh*t….it was just about star trek for f*ck sake and I am tired of people implying otherwise (and sending me hate mail). Some people need to get a life
“blatantly obvious to all.”
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Obviously not. I took it as apparently intended. It is a mention of ST in mainstream media. I don’t see it as an *endorsement* at all.
I do think some people are obviously wound to tight though.
Or maybe they’re just not particularly fond of this commander-in-chief, who has been fawned over more than enough up to now.
And allow me to quote Nimoy directly here in response to your last comment:
Nimoy: “I guess it’s somewhat unusual for a politician to be so precise, logical, in his thought process. The comparison to Spock is, in my opinion, a compliment to him and to the character.”
…”a compliment to him and to the character”!
As I said previously, it’s a blatantly obvious political statement in addition to being fawning, and in the minds of many, undeserved praise.
And I’ll even go a step further –in my view it’s an insult to the character.
When I watch Spock I want to enjoy that character, not find myself thinking this president by extension.
If that makes me “wound too tight,” then so be it, but Nimoy is the one who actually started discussion by opening his mouth.
218. Anthony, the entire forced parallel to Obama is a joke.
220. They are milking the cow the best way they can. A while ago, I asked Orci in one of these talkbacks why didn’t they make this a movie with a new crew. And he said that they needed the Spock-Obama parallel to gain a greater audience and media attention.
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