Zoe Saldana Ponders Spock & Uhura “Mating” In Star Trek Sequel | TrekMovie.com
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Zoe Saldana Ponders Spock & Uhura “Mating” In Star Trek Sequel April 23, 2010

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Celebrity,ST09 Cast,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

One of the biggest surprises for the 2009 Star Trek movie was the romance between Uhura and Spock. The question now is, where do they take it in the sequel? In an interview promoting her new film The Losers (opening today), Zoe Saldana discusses the potential for Spock and Uhura "mating". Watch the video below.

 

Zoe talks Uhura/Spock

Watch Zoe talking about Vulcans and their mating rituals, and pondering what the destruction of Vulcan will do to their biological urges.

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In the video Zoe talks about what a "huge gamble" the Spock/Uhura pairing was, and how it "worked really, really well." But she also wondered where the Star Trek team of JJ Abrams, Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Damon Lindelof and Bryan Burk will take it next, noting ""It would be interesting to see what they are going to do with it…I really hope they keep [the relationship] and continue to explore it."

Will Spock become a born again Vulcan?

But then Saldana does bring up an interesting issue:

But at the same time too — this is coming from my mother, who is a Trekkie — I could be wrong, but I thought that Vulcans only mate every seven years. So now that the planet [Vulcan] has been extinguished, it’s kind of interesting. Can Spock mate with a non-Vulcan?

Zoe’s The Losers co-star Columbus Short (apparently an avowed Trekkie) pointed out that Spock’s father (Sarek) didn’t seem to have a problem mating with a non-Vulcan (Amanda), but Saldana countered "That’s true, but there were tons of Vulcans back then. Now, there are no Vulcans.”

Saldana seems to be acknowledging that with the loss of the vast majority of the Vulcan race, would Spock feel compelled to help keep it going? If he were to mate with Uhura, any offspring would only be a quarter Vulcan. Now would that be the logical choice?

We will find out in the Star Trek sequel. 

VOTE: More/less Spock/Uhura in Star Trek sequel?
So what do you think? Should they ramp it up in the sequel, or is it time for Spock to Kolinar Uhura to the curb? Have your say in the la

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Comments

1. toughlittleship - April 23, 2010

Didn’t the scenes with Uhura and Spock earn some award for worst romance recently? Seems insane to continue it.

2. Gretchen - April 23, 2010

No, man. This was brilliant. I hope they keep it. I think the writers (and actors) pulled off this pairing very well.

3. Tara - April 23, 2010

I loved this ship. I thought it was subtle, nice, and in character. If they eliminated it, it would be a disservice to the reboot. I just hope they keep it subtle. A “break-up” scene or conversation would be inappropriate and awkward.

4. Kaylee - April 23, 2010

KEEP IT!!!!

5. Allen Williams - April 23, 2010

I believe its actually they are forced to mate once every 7 years. I never heard anything that prevents them from doing it more often. Logically there is no reason to “waste” time doing it more frequently. Now that they are an endangered species, it would be logical to mate like bunnies.

6. bgiles73 - April 23, 2010

Waiting on this sequel is almost like the Vulcan mating cycle. It’ll be about 7 years to get to second base. The pressures building! Oh the agony! LOL!!!

7. Mike - April 23, 2010

The Uhura / Spock thing was a total waste of time. It added nothing. The filmmakers and actors all seem to think it was this incredible thing, but fail to explain why. It just got in the way.

8. Rah - April 23, 2010

The Spock / Uhura thing was brilliant, brought the emotional, conflicted and softer Spock to the fore without him wandering the halls crying as he had time to in TOS.
All in all the movie was a brilliant redress and retell, keep it going if it fits the story.
I will never understand how so many Star Trek fans are so full of venom.

9. Pierre - April 23, 2010

The romance is totally ludicrous and out-of-character.

10. Dlope - April 23, 2010

Completely throw away material IMHO, and doesn’t really jive with what we know of Vulcan’s and Spock on top of that.

11. Major Lee "TIBERIUS" Skywalker, Battlestar Serenity - April 23, 2010

Spock could shy away or even be shunned from mating with the other remaining Vulcan females, considering he’s half human. The Vulcans that are left would probably want to produce as many full-blooded Vulcan children as they possibly could until their race is substantially repopulated. I could definitely imagine the Vulcan High Council mandating something along those lines, leaving Spock once more ‘distanced’ from what’s left of the Vulcan people and possibly from his father once more.

Just a thought :)

12. Buzz Cagney - April 23, 2010

I didn’t think it worked well at all.

13. Dunsel Report - April 23, 2010

The Spock/Uhura thing was exactly the kind of risk they needed to take with the Federation’s only real legends. I did wonder about Pon Farr.

But honestly, I feel like the movie felt fresher the more it broke continuity. That was the flavor of the early Trek episodes, anyhow–anything goes. Not this calcified canon thing. I say that as someone who worships the Star Trek Technical Manual.

14. Voyager - April 23, 2010

Spock and nurse Chapel are supposed to be lovers, NOT spock and Uhuru…..

15. Laila - April 23, 2010

This makes me nauseous. Sure I guess it works as a tool to show Spock’s coming retreat to more Vulcan ideals. But changing the central relationships between Star Trek characters that much? It didn’t need it before, guys. In fact it was pretty great as it was.

16. TrekGuy62 - April 23, 2010

If this comes to pass, Trek will have warped the shark…

17. Justine - April 23, 2010

Kirk and Spock’s subtle love should be all that is needed.
Have Uhura and Nurse Chapel hook up!

18. Evamaria - April 23, 2010

I like the Spock/Uhura relationship in the original series and the way we saw it in the first half of the new movie – but it irked me that after the “big reveal” in the elevator Uhura seemed to be reduced to ‘girlfriend’. So if they keep it going (and explore pon farr or introduce Chapel), I do hope Uhura will get to do other, not relationship-related things, too.

19. Erina - April 23, 2010

Spock and Uhura worked fine for the “throw a surprise into it that’ll get people talking” but I don’t like them together. It took away from the Kirk/Spock/McCoy friendship dynamic and, more importantly, didn’t have chemistry…let’s be honest, there was more chemistry between Spock and Kirk fighting than there was between Spock and Uhura kissing. Meh…

I love strong women characters, which Uhura always has been but, she also needs her self-righteous, pompous self reminded that she’s not in charge and does not always get her way. The way she basically bullied herself onto the Enterprise was ooc for Spock and made her look bad.

20. tman - April 23, 2010

While there was little in the way of depicting her in romance during the TV show, I drew the conclusion that Uhura was sexually liberated and I didn’t get an impression that she was particularly monogamous. How much of that is what I bring to viewing the show,how much is intentionally hinted I can’t say, but if you look at the scene where the salt sucking monster trys to lure her, she seems to go from flirting with Spock to being friendly with another potential in the span of a few minutes. Of course, she also seems to me a bit of a pot head so take my comments for what they are…

21. I LOVE BOBORCI - April 23, 2010

Uhura & Spock 4ever!

Haters gonna hate…

22. Logicalchoice - April 23, 2010

It doesn’t feel right… Don’t get me wrong, the movie was awesome, but that pairring was just awkward. Can’t really explain it. But Spock should rather be with the Captain than with Uhura. More bromance please!

23. Heather - April 23, 2010

Eh she can do better

24. Gretchen - April 23, 2010

Roddenberry had originally planned on their being a romance between Spock & Uhura, but didn’t because of the reaction to interracial romance on TV in the 60′s. True, Uhura and Kirk kissed, but it was played out like they were doing it against their wills, so it doesn’t really count as “romance.” Also, FYI the kiss was supposed to be with Spock. But William Shatner insisted that HE be the one to have that groundbreaking TV kiss with Nichelle Nichols.

And I don’t understand the talk about Chapel getting together with Spock. I found her character rather sad, the way she chased after him, and he was clearly not interested.

Oh–and Nimoy ships Spock/Uhura, so there! LOL.

25. dmduncan - April 23, 2010

“I really hope they keep [the relationship] and continue to explore it.”

Blecch. I don’t. I trust I don’t have to repeat all the reasons why.

Sex scenes in a movie are mostly a waste of time in proportion to how long they are.

There were three main character “pairings” in Firefly/Serenity, each of them handled perfectly and in good taste, the best being the one between Mal and Inara, who never actually even slept together.

Personally, I would watch all 14 episodes of Firefly and then watch Serenity, and follow that as an example.

26. DSN IN PRIME TIME - April 23, 2010

keep it going i think it is a great inner story to the main sequence

27. captain_neill - April 23, 2010

I was not happy with the Spock Uhura romance.

28. CmdrR - April 23, 2010

Funny how many times Trek is on he Q&A list, no matter what movie she’s promoting. I don’t hear her getting a lot of “The Terminal” questions. (Not a bad movie, mind you; even had a little Trek in it.)

29. nscates - April 23, 2010

I didn’t mind the pairing of the two and it served the character development pretty well, but the biggest problem I had with it is that it HAD to be against regulations. Think about it: no military or paramilitary service worth a damn would allow officers to take up with with their subordinates. He was her commanding officer, and, as such, any intimate relationship would be innappropriate. The opportunity for favoritism, jealousy and conflicts of interest are abundant. I’m not sure how the military handles such things, but I’d be pretty surprised if they didn’t have some regulation against it.

30. I am not Herbert - April 23, 2010

let them “do it”, but keep it on the D/L dammit!!!

31. Starbase Britain - April 23, 2010

These scenes didnt sit well with me. Im a fan of TOS and i think its better that it ends here. No sex please – we’re British!

Greg
UK

32. Uncle Joey - April 23, 2010

Nork and Kurz please dont go Superman Returns and give them a “kid” :(

33. vardoeger - April 23, 2010

As long as both their roles as officers are preserved (meaning, she’s there to do a job and just so happens to be connected to the Spock and vice versa) I’m all for this continuing. It would be more than refreshing to see two people who can effectively and maturely juggle both career and relationship instead of drama, triangles and all that other baggage. It’s about time, honestly.

I like that the first film did not do an extreme focus on their relationship, that it was secondary to the action and the mission and this should continue into the next film. Explore all you want but don’t derail the action for the sake of it.

34. bbgon - April 23, 2010

Oh God, this discussion again? S/U is illogical, it died in TOS before it was born, it kills the dynamic between Kirk, Spock and McCoy, it doesn’t have chemistry, it disturbs the development of Spock’s character… Should I continue? And marrying them and getting them a baby would be a disaster. In that case you could simply close the franchise and not put us under so much stress, seeing them together.

35. CmdrR - April 23, 2010

29-The opportunity for favoritism, jealousy and conflicts of interest are abundant.

–It already happened. She browbeat Spock into reassigning her from another starship onto Enterprise.

It makes sense dramatically. But, sometimes, it’s not a good idea to give the fanboys (and fangirls) everything they want. I’d like to see more of a smoldering undercurrent than anything as overt as Tonsil Tango on the transporter pad. Jeesh!

31-No sex please – we’re British!

Too funny, Greg. If your wife gets bored, let me know. *runs like hell*

36. Gary - April 23, 2010

Maybe they will have a son and name him Tuvok

37. Shunnabunich - April 23, 2010

I agree with those saying that the Spock/Uhura relationship had no legit reason to happen and the movie would’ve been better (“better” being a relative term) without it. However, I voted for “a little Spock/Uhura” because the writers have backed themselves into a corner. They can’t just pretend they didn’t make that mistake in the first movie and carry on; they now have to acknowledge the relationship for continuity’s sake. Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we throw absurd crap into a script for the teen male demographic.

38. CubanAries1701A - April 23, 2010

I don’t mind the Uhura and Spock thing but my problem is Hollywood just has to stick a dam romance in every movie now a days, and if not worse they have to stick kids in movies. Enough with that crap. I want action, I want great acting, I want ship battles, I want more Enterprise action. I want to see more logic, fun.. No romance no kids just a good Star Trek movie that will kick ass and make me love it more than I already do.

39. T'Leba - April 23, 2010

I’m all for seeing a little more of the relationship, although Spock is too young for pon farr.

40. Masteradept - April 23, 2010

I say keep the couple..hell add a female Vulcan and let them be a poly family unit.

41. Pat - April 23, 2010

I love the pairing and yes I grew up watching the original series. The pairing was somewhat alluded to back then and I am thrilled that the reboot is shining some light on their attraction. It is good to see Spock and Uhura together. The pair have a huge following on fanfiction.

42. I am not Herbert - April 23, 2010

#38: YEAH!!! I’m with you!! Enough of the romance crap!!

We want kick-ass Enterprise space battle action!!!
Everybody sweating bullets and fighting for their lives!!
Phasers full-spread M/F-er!!

(more logic would definitely be good as well…)

43. Michael Hall - April 23, 2010

“Blecch. I don’t. I trust I don’t have to repeat all the reasons why.”

For once, dmduncan, we agree. :-)

The “romance” was ill-conceived, part and parcel of the writers’ self-described mission of “changing what (the fans) think they already know.” Worse, though, were the alterations to Uhura’s overall character. The original, hailing from 23rd century United Africa, was always played by Nichelle Nichols as a little exotic and mysterious–we never got to know all that much about her–not to mention extremely efficient and competent at her job. It’s just impossible to imagine her, even at a younger age, taunting an obnoxious jerk by referring to him as a hick who likes to have sex with farm animals. The rebooted Uhura may be brilliant (though we’re never given any real evidence to suppose why), and beautiful, but exotic and mysterious she’s not. She sounds and acts like a dropout from Glendale High. No fault to Ms. Saldana, who did the best she could with the part (and showed some real acting chops under tons of CGI makeup in a better film)–it’s just the way the thing was written.

44. Will_H - April 23, 2010

I’m so glad to see that the majority feels that they should end the Spock/Uhura thing. It never worked for me, not for a second, and felt like something that was just thrown in there simply to have a romance, and it felt forced. Not only that, but if you look at the idea of a Lieutenant and a Commander having a relationship, especially student and teacher, well that wouldn’t fly on a lot of levels. I think the only reason the Troi/Riker thing worked in Nemesis was because of her position, as in it not being directly related to ship’s operations. I hope they just drop it, plus its time for Kirk to get some romance, I mean come on, he didn’t get laid once in the movie, something’s wrong there…

45. Trek Ahead - April 23, 2010

# 41 In the original series it was Christine Chapel who had a thing for Spock, not Uhura.
This was one of the many reasons I hate this f@#$ing film!
Spock is a professional and would never fraternize with a fellow officer.
He didn’t with Nurse Chapel, why should he with Uhura?
Totally out of character, and It just distracts from the story!

46. Denise de Arman - April 23, 2010

The pairing “somewhat alluded to”? You are kidding, right? A little banter on the bridge between Uhura and Spock in one ep does not a relationship make (as a matter of fact, Spock was quizzical and non-understanding when it came to Uhura’s conversational flirting). The person Spock was always coming into contact with physically was Kirk. He also mind-melded with him four times during the series (although one of those times Kirk was in the body of Janice Lester). If the series “alluded” to anyone being “close” to Spock, it was Kirk, though I realize that is not popular around here.

Kill the Spock/Uhura angle – it never should have been included to begin with.

47. vmurt - April 23, 2010

@Denise de Arman:

It’s popular with me! Kirk/Spock all the way!

48. Gretchen - April 23, 2010

#43-ehhh… Uhura was “exotic and mysterious” because the studio kept cutting her lines (and shouldn’t race relations in the future have progressed enough so that a black person isn’t considered “exotic?”). I read her autobiography, and the treatment she got from the studio was horrendous. She almost quit the show, until she met MLK who pointed out that she was one of the few (if only) black characters on TV who weren’t servants of some kind.

But back to the sequel—you know who I’d love to see? T’Pring. She’s actually kind of a bad-ass. Assuming she survived the destruction of Vulcan, how interesting would it be to find out that since Vulcans are now an “endangered species” that the Vulcan High Council has decided that it is logical for Spock to mate with her ASAP. Now THAT would create some drama!

49. Darren - April 23, 2010

Anyone remember Spock’s betrothed WIFE from TOS?

We can assume she still existed, at least until Vulcan was destroyed…

50. Green Blooded Bastard - April 23, 2010

“The question now is, where do they take it in the sequel?”

Sounds like a self-answering question : P

51. Candace - April 23, 2010

I love Spock and Uhura together! Their relationship is the reason why I saw the movie 7 times in theaters. I liked how their romance was not central to the story, but was a nice supportive current through the movie. Those two characters had such great chemistry in the early episodes of TOS and they were hot like fire in XI.

Also, Nimoy ships Spock/Uhura. So, do we really need another blessing on this ship as canon other than that?

52. Candace - April 23, 2010

#48
Thanks Gretchen for setting the record straight!

53. DD - April 23, 2010

You’re forgetting, Spock is half human, so why shouldn’t he be able to mate? He has the best of both worlds by being mixed.The Vulcan gene may not apply to him with the human gene being dominant :) In this universe, to preserve the Vulcan gene pool, he may be first of many and the Vulcans may evolve into something quite different to what we already know. As Spock would say “Facinating”.

54. Scott B. here. - April 23, 2010

Part of the Spock mystique in TOS was that he was virtually unattainable by women because of his culture/biology. The new movie stripped away half his cool factor by having him pair up with Uhura. It seemed like it was thrown in for shock value only, not good character development.

That, and a romance between a Starfleet instructor and student is ridiculously unethical, and is so not-Spock.

Scott. B. out.

55. StarTrekGal - April 23, 2010

Bob, if you are keeping tabs, the S/U ship is favored by more than half the respondents–the fanfiction writers are having a heyday, too. The relationship gives you more to work with, not less–the unhappy campers want things to stay the same and are having trouble with change. I grew up with TOS and as much as I still love watching the old episodes, I am very happy with the franchise in your hands….the changes are delightful and make the characters even more interesting than they already were. Well done. Now, get busy on that sequel….we are DYING to see it….

56. Pierre - April 23, 2010

It is becoming tiresome that each and every secondary character/actor wants to do this or that, have more fights, more romance and on and on. Who’s stupid idea was it to bring forth a romance between S/U, a commander and a subordinate: The writers, director or the actors? Certainly not the latter, and I do hope for the sake of the next movie that they kill this romance, otherwise the main characters will take a backseat on the bridge. They can always make Twilight, The Next Generation for the romance seekers. Blurgh!

57. Thomas - April 23, 2010

I voted for “A little Spock/Uhura” because the writers are going to have to deal with their relationship and its’ consequences in the next film. They can’t afford to just leave it by the wayside, as it was too conspicuous in this movie to just ignore it in the next. I think they should bring S/U to some sort of conclusion personally. I liked their relationship at first; it was bold and TOS offers some hints of justification for it. However, the more times I watched the movie, the less it worked for me. The relationship just didn’t ring true. Uhura’s attempts at being tender toward Spock in his weakest moments felt false, as though she were being forced to be tender. Others have pointed out the absence of chemistry between S/U, and they’re right. It’s obvious they respect each other’s intelligence, but I couldn’t see what it was beyond that. I wonder if the writers felt that Spock would need someone to console him when Vulcan was destroyed and they Uhura was just the right fit.

That said, the suddenly diminished numbers of the Vulcan people would certainly introduce some potential drama into their relationship; namely, would Spock feel the obligation to return to his people to help propagate his species? Spock Prime says he has the opportunity to be in two places at once, but perhaps the younger Spock would still feel compelled to return to his betrothed (assuming she still exists) and father a child. That would certainly throw some drama into the S/U relationship.

58. bbgon - April 23, 2010

#46. Denise de Arman
K/S is popular with me, too! It’s logical, as opposed to S/U.

#54. Scott B. here.
Absolutely!
And a marriage or a stable relationship with lots of making-out would destroy Spock’s character completely. If you make him an average father& husband who has no problem with showing his emotions in front of everyone (transporter scene), then what’s the point in calling him ‘Spock’? It’s just some guy.

+1 to people who mentioned T’Pring. She just never existed, hmm?

59. BiggestTOSFanever - April 23, 2010

@boborci
Before you go too far with this (although I didn’t mind Spock/Uhura) read The Biology of Star Trek and read the chapter on Spock.

60. zami - April 23, 2010

I loved this ship also. It really brought out an emotional element to Uhura that was missing in TOS. I mean she hailed more frequencies than anybody and was just eye candy. Here she became not only a competent, intelligent, and fiercely loyal lieutenant but she was also a true friend and loyal to Spock. I think it’s a shame that people diss what good things romance brings out in characters-it’s a means for Spock to have a “canvas” to write his emotions on, it’s a way for light hearted fun scenes between him and Kirk, and it rounds out Uhura’s character. There’s nothing wrong with a strong woman in a professional setting being involved in a committed relationship. Why the hate for Spock/Uhura when some of the most popular films of all time have romance i.e; Leia-Solo, Neytiri-Jake Sully etc? Seems this prejudice against Spock/Uhura is just fear of change, fear of something different. I thought it was fun, I thought they had great chemistry! More Spock Uhura please!

61. Gretchen - April 23, 2010

Regarding T’Pring (assuming she and Spock were betrothed in this universe), I can’t help but wonder if she is as racist as the Vulcan Science Academy. It would certainly be consistent with her TOS character, who rejected Spock and had hooked up with Stonn, even though she was betrothed to Spock. And it would explain why Spock felt free to pursue another relationship as well. I think her character would be a really interesting addition to the mix, and it would be plausible to introduce her before Spock hits Pon Farr because everything has changed now that Vulcan has been destroyed.

Regarding Spock being too emotional in the movie–he’s a lot younger here. According to Nimoy, Roddenberry’s backstory on Spock had him experimenting with human females in college (b/c they were basically throwing themselves at him), and then deciding it was too much trouble/drama. Maybe he took a slightly different path in this universe, and instead of fooling around, met someone he was intellectually compatible with (and one thing I noticed about Uhura in the movie is that she’s very intellectual and super-nerdy). Perhaps Spock and Uhura were never at Starfleet Academy at the same time in TOS, but in this one, they are.

62. zami - April 23, 2010

I loved this ship also. It really brought out an emotional element to Uhura that was missing in TOS. I mean she hailed more frequencies than anybody and was just eye candy. Here she became not only a competent, intelligent, and fiercely loyal lieutenant but she was also a true friend and loyal to Spock. I think it’s a shame that people diss what good things romance brings out in characters-it’s a means for Spock to have a “canvas” to write his emotions on, it’s a way for light hearted fun scenes between him and Kirk, and it rounds out Uhura’s character. There’s nothing wrong with a strong woman in a professional setting being involved in a committed relationship. Why the hate for Spock/Uhura when some of the most popular films of all time have romance i.e; Leia-Solo, Neytiri-Jake Sully etc? Seems this prejudice against Spock/Uhura is just fear of change, fear of something different. I thought it was fun, I thought they had great chemistry! More Spock Uhura please!
p.s. Zoe Zoe the issue of Spock deciding to go to New Vulcan was already decided-he made the decision to do “what feels right” and return to the Enterprise remember? Can’t redo that over and over-Spock is a decisive Vulcan-not wishy washy at all. Plus Spock Prime vowed to go to New Vulcan in his place. Can’t go back and change that now. Would be like-really confusing. Plus do Star Trek fans really want that kind of romantic drama in the movie? That’d take up a lot of time, plus Spock would have to be gone from the Enterprise. I say just keep the relationship-doesn’t have to be blatant-keep it quiet even in the background but keep it! That’s if they want to keep all the new fans they got including me.

63. Pat - April 23, 2010

Sorry guys. The relationship exists. It is now reboot canon. S/U is here. It appeared to be written as if Spock chose to stay on the Enterprise with Uhura b/c he was doing “what felt right” as Spock Prime had suggested him to do. No, he wasn’t only there for Kirk because K/S were not at that point firmly established as friends. Yes, we can do a little more of Spock and Uhura while at the same time remembering that Star Trek is more than just the two of them. This is a reboot guys. You have to change your set ways of thinking. Everything is not going to be exactly as it was in the 70s. That maybe one of the reasons that the reboot was so successful. It was a refreshing and different perspective…not to mention the romance did draw in a lot of new individuals to the ST universe. If Riker/Troi, Trip/ Tpol(who is vulcan) could do it then why can’t Spock finally get some lovin in the evolved ST universe?

64. ryanhuyton - April 23, 2010

They need to cool it and move on. Don’t mention anything about the Spock/Uhura romance in the sequel. Just move on.

65. T'Lem - April 23, 2010

I tried to like the Spock/Uhura pairing. I really, really tried to like. But no matter how I hard I try…and this to no fault of the very talent Mr. Quinto and the lovely Ms. Saldana…Spock and Uhura are like chocolate ice cream and spicy salsa to me. I love them both, but together, they give me a bad taste in my mouth.

I am MUCH more interested in developing the friendship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy and maybe developing Uhura’s character dependent of her romantic relationship with Spock, than Spock/Uhura.

66. Dee - April 23, 2010

perhaps funny confusions between Kirk/Uhura/Spok.

67. bbgon - April 23, 2010

Just move on.
If everyone who doesn’t like S/U just moves on – and out of the franchise, I think the creators won’t be happy either.

68. 1701 over Gotham City - April 23, 2010

Ditch it completely… don’t even refer to it. At all. Just let it go. It was horrendously out of character for Spock, regardless of the circumstances.
And it didn’t propel the story, it bogged it. Not needed. As a character Uhura is intelligent, charismatic, witty, vain, and proud of her heritage… and very independent. She doesn’t need the sappy doe-eyes that Christine held for Spock in TOS. Speaking of which, where’s Chapel?

On that note, we also do not need a return for Pike. He did his part, and handed his torch… let Kirk and Co sail on their own merits, not under the eye of Pike.

69. Witchsistah - April 23, 2010

For those who want to “just move on,” all I got to say is BYE!

And now I have many more ways of calling Black women “uppity” thanks to these comments.

70. Michael Hall - April 23, 2010

#48–

Interesting point, but not a response to the one I was making. Agreed that the network’s treatment of the character was deplorable, if true (Herb Solow denies it, so who’s to say?), but Uhura wasn’t exotic and mysterious because she was black or had few lines; it was because (at least initially) she was portrayed as an African from a Swahili-speaking culture we knew little about. The background of Uhura as played in the new film doesn’t, by contrast, impact the character at all; by her diction and actions she might just as well have grown up in Des Moines or Pacoima. Again, I don’t fault Saldana for this at all; she’s a promising talent who played what she was given to work with. But I wish the producers had taken the trouble to cast an actress with the ethnic background to portray the character convincingly, or at least to have instructed Saldana to play the character as originally conceived. That they didn’t unfortunately speaks volumes to me about their real lack of respect for the source material.

71. Balok - April 23, 2010

With Zoe, once every 7 minutes…

72. Mousling1014 - April 23, 2010

I personally love the Spock & Uhura relationship, it works for me. I could feel it. Now as far as everyone saying it’s OOC for Spock, I disagree. We keep forgetting that this rebooted version takes place in an alternate time line, also Spock is a lot younger in this than he was in the TOS timeline, though if memory serves during that first season of TOS Spock can be seen smirking, smiling, frowning, annoyed, pissed off..etc.. You all see where I’m going with this, (just watching the episode ‘Where no man has gone before’ gives you a plethora of “emotional Spock”.) Look I grew up with TOS and love it to this day and the triumverate of Kirk/Spock/McCoy, but I also would like to see with additional movies, the coming together of all of the main characters and not have them so much in the background, I really don’t feel that having Uhura and Spock together in any way takes away from Kirk/Spock/McCoy, in fact if done right, it could add a depth and dimension to the Kirk/Spock/McCoy relationship. How about we keep an open mind to this, after all the man who gave us Spock (yes Roddenberry put him on paper, but Leonard Nimoy actually ‘gave’ us the character with his wonderful acting) didn’t have a problem with Spock & Uhura in this movie and actually endorsed it, I’m thinking he probably knows a little more than we about how Spock feels and whether or not it was going to be too OOC. So let’s relax people, quit hating and bashing (because that’s so NOT what Star Trek is about) and think how wonderful it is that our beloved Star Trek is with us again and is still alive and kicking! :-)

73. Trek Lady - April 23, 2010

#63

Ah no… it wasn’t written as though “Spock chose to stay on the Enterprise and be with Uhura because he was doing what felt right.”

Actually, it was written he was all prepared to LEAVE the Enterprise AND Uhura and only chose to stay after Spock Prime talked to him about his destined friendship with KIRK and what THEY would accomplish together.

And TOS isn’t from “the 70s” …it is from the “60s”.

I would not mind having Uhura shown to be a close friend to Spock, someone he can confine in. I would welcome that aspect of her character. But I do not like the “romance” idea… I rarely enjoy romance in my action/adventure movies… because it is usually poorly done, doesn’t seem organic but more tossed it to make the movie more “chick” friendly, and tends to reduce female characters to the role of “girlfriend” – and yes, I think that did happen to Uhura in the reboot.

And if folks got into the film for the “romance” then they are likely to be very disappointed in future (At least I really HOPE they will!) Trek has never been about “romance.” If you really a film that focuses on romance, watch “The Notebook”. The idea that someone went to a movie multiple times merely to see about six minutes of screen time between Spock and Uhura, and would not have bothered to see it otherwise, tells me they are not really a Trek fan, or even a reboot fan. They are a Spock/Uhura fan. That is exceedingly limiting because Trek does not center around romance. And why should the entire franchise cater to people who only go to the film to see that?

If Saldana wants more screen time, rather than focus on her ability to swap spit with Spock, how about if we allow her to shine as an intelligent, dynamic member of Starfleet using her skills to “boldly go.” THAT is the kind of character development I want to see in a female character who was one of my FIRST role models as a female sci-fi fan. When I was a child, I had every intention of joining NASA and becoming an astronaut, and it was partially because of Uhura! Seeing her on the bridge let me know it was okay to dream about going into space! (Ultimately, it wasn’t my sex that kept me on the ground, but my less than stellar health. )

Can they do both? Uhura as kick ass officer AND romantic interest? I think they tried to in the first film, and IMO what happened is the “intelligent” Starfleet officer lost out to the “girlfriend”. In 160 minutes, you don’t really have time to develop multiple characters strongly along several dimensions. Something has got to give.

We get two more movies – about five hours of screen time in total…. let’s not spend that precious time having two of the central characters making moo moo eyes at each other and discussing how to decorate the nursery.

74. gracliper - April 23, 2010

In a way it seems that the Nero stuff at the beginning haven’t changed the life of the young Spock as a child. But we don’t know if it made he meet Uhura in a circumstance that favoured the romance.

That said, I think what already happened was awkward but it’s already done. But it won’t be logical for Spock to mate Uhura when the vulcan race is about to disappear. I’m sure Spock would consider that above everything and even will be more proud about being a vulcan than we see in the original timeline.

Yes, I was aware of those smiles on Charlie X but was a wild assumption if that was what leaded to this romance. If the time really is trying to mend itself (creating those incredible coincidences all along the movie), Spock will eventualy forget all about that when he gets closer to Jim. I’m just saying… ;)

75. miguelito1701 - April 23, 2010

@54 Totally agree.
but’ll guess that’s the new Trek now …

76. Trek Lady - April 23, 2010

#72

Not liking the S/U romance is an opinon. We are discussing characters in a movie. It is not equivalent to “hating” anyone. So maybe those making claims of “HATE” need to chill a bit themselves.

And I feel S/U already took away from Kirk/Spock/ McCoy, or didn’t you note that the movie posters and DVD covers featured Kirk, Spock and … Uhura?

77. Kirk's Revenge - April 23, 2010

If the Abrams team persists with this absurd romance, then it’s time for a new creative team. Believe it or not, but there are other directors, producers and writers out there–at least I’ve heard rumors of such.

But then again it wasn’t just Spock/Uhura that bugged me about the last movie.

I honestly tried to like the flick. I went to the theater with a clear mind and open eyes, trying my best to forget about forty or so years of previous installments. But ultimately I couldn’t just dismiss so many glaring mistakes/plot holes, mischaracterizations, coincidental meetings, and “Dude, where’s my starship?” level of humor. As far as I’m concerned, Trek ’09 can go down as the Lazenby chapter in the franchise: a curious if inept exercise in Hollywood’s long tradition of sticky-fingered repackaging.

78. zami - April 23, 2010

to Trek Lady-#73. First thank you for responding to my comment!
You say Spock was leaving Uhura and the Enterprise but you failed to say he was leaving Kirk also! Isn’t Kirk on the Enterprise??? So, logic was motivating him to leave as he said because his planet had been destroyed. NOT ONCE did he say he stayed because of Kirk-that’s you saying that because you’re pre disposed to that ship. Spock Prime said do what feels right instead of following his logic. I would think Uhura fits in with that cause he sure did smile at her when he passed by her after boarding-check out the DVD. Plus he was in love with her, and that involves feelings. Do you have the DVD??? On the Blu Ray-the writers gush over how much these two were in LOVE. You need to accept that-it is now canon. Spock and Uhura were in a love relationship. He also felt right aboujt staying with the Enterprise.

79. Pierre - April 23, 2010

#73

I’m with you all the way. Its Trek or not.

#76

I noticed that too. McCoy, got a smaller part than he should had and Uhura took a far too greater seat. The relationship between the three must grow in the next movie. That’s what the story is about.

80. ryanhuyton - April 23, 2010

#73

Well said!

I will add this: Since Zoe Saldana played a character in “Avatar” who fell in love with Jake Sully, shouldn’t she just be happy that she is involved with “Star Trek” and leave it at that? Unlike “Avatar”, Zoe is a supporting actress playing a supporting character. There is no need for her to start asking for more screen time or romance. She already got that in “Avatar”.
If any of the main characters in the J.J Abram’s version of Star Trek should get a romantic interest, it SHOULD be Kirk or even McCoy. That is it. But even then I would prefer no romance until the third movie and just prefer they keep the focus on the Kirk, Spock, McCoy friendship. Plus, a lot of movie romances are cliched, cynical, tired, and totally unneccessary to the story. The Spock/Uhura romance in “Star Trek” was alright for one movie, but I just can’t see it continue. Plus it would change the character of Spock even more after the destruction of Vulcan. The fundamentals of “The Original Series” must be preserved.

81. Trek Lady - April 23, 2010

#78

Yes, he was prepared to leave. I agree with you when you said the Kirk and Spock friendship was not yet established . Spock Prime did say, “Do what feels right,….”

…..AFTER he gave a whole spiel about the importance of Kirk in Spock’s life and all the would accomplish together…!

So it seems rather natural to assume the two ideas were meant to be connected. The fact that Spock then returned to the Enterpise and went to see Kirk and offer his services would also suggest he was taking Spock Prime’s advice regarding KIRK.

Now, I suppose you could assume that Spock heard the whole, “blah blah Kirk…” “what you could accomplish together” “not deny you a friendship that will define your life in ways you cannot yet imagine” etc. and thought, “I will do what feels right and return to Uhura….” Note that he never once said he was returning to HER either.

Frankly I think YOUR extrapolation is much more indicative of someone pre-disposed to a certain ship. Ever heard of Occam’s Razor?

BTW. I am more a friendshiper than a slasher…you should not just assume that everyone who dislikes the S/U romance does so because they are slashers.

And yes, I know the writers said they are in love…. they are trying to cater to a certain audience with those comments. they also go on and on about how they were so focused on the whole “Kirk/Spock” dynamic. They are selliing themselves to whoever will buy the product. It’s called marketing!

82. Denise de Arman - April 23, 2010

zami- Spock Prime did not tell Young Spock to go back to the Enterprise to be with his one true love Uhura… he told him to “do what feels right” AFTER talking about the friendship that he would have with Kirk – a friendship that would define them both. At least THAT part Orci and Kurtzman got right. The Uhura plotpoint was a weak attempt to copy the Leila/Han Solo/Luke pattern, as far as I am concerned.

83. Mousling1014 - April 23, 2010

I think if there were a poll we’d find that those who like the Spock & Uhura ship would not want the movies to degenerate into “The Notebook” and be all about romance. Of course that wouldn’t work! Star Trek is about the action, that’s what we all want to see. A little romance thrown in is okay by me, but no, I’m primarily watching it for the action. As someone else wrote, I too would like to see all the characters developed, I’d like to see more about Sulu and Chekov, more with Scotty and yes, I would like to see Uhura developed more as a character (not asking for much from a 2 hour + movie ;-) I’d also like to see more McCoy (who is my 2nd fav after Spock) But we have to be realistic, this isn’t TOS. I loved the triumverate of Bill Shatner’s Kirk, Leonard Nimoy’s Spock and DeForest Kelly’s McCoy, it was epic! But we now have different actors, and I’m not saying that they won’t form that type of bond, but it’s going to be different, of course. But I’m being a bit selfish here in saying that I’m ok with it not quite being as epic as TOS because quite frankly that’s kind of as pure as it gets Star Trek wise

84. PunkSpocker - April 23, 2010

I’m a chick, I like romance. I liked when Spock got his fingers stroked by like minded space chicks. I think Saldana and Quinto have chemistry to do something hot yet meaningful on screen. Ford and Fisher couldn’t have lit a match!

85. ryanhuyton - April 23, 2010

#84

“Ford and Fisher couldn’t have lit a match!”

Totally disagree. The Han Solo/Leia romance was extremely well done.
The way it started was cool. Han always hitting on Leia. Leia spurning his advances until the end of “The Empire Strikes Back” when she kissed him before he was frozen inn carbonite. Classic.

86. zami - April 23, 2010

To Trek Lady and Denise de Arman-I hear that you think Spock went back to the Enterprise solely because he was destined to be friends with Kirk???? Is that what I hear??? That his love for the Enterprise, his career as a Starfleet officer, his associations with others had nothing to do with his decision not to help his people who had lost their PLANET. He didn’t even like Kirk at that time. And remember-SPOCK PRIME COULD ONLY COMMENT ON HIS TIMELINE AND WHAT RELATIONSHIP WAS IMPORTANT THERE. This is AN ALTERNATE TIMELINE. Spock Prime had not experienced a relationship with Uhura as Spock did, so of course he wouldn’t even talk about it. In this timeline Spock and Uhura are in love-love is a GOOD THING. It seems like some Star Trek fans think love/romance is evil. Ask Hollywood producers what sells movies and they’ll tell you romance is right up there with action, suspense, etc. You have all these attractive people-Zoe Saldana is beautiful-and expect her/them not to have any romantic involvements on a FIVE YEAR MISSION? Yet nobody seems to have a problem with Kirk bedding woman after woman. The need for a mate/romance/love/companionship is one of the strongest urges humans and even Vulcan creatures have-it’s how the species continues!!! How in the world do you take that out of life? There’s nothing negative about it. I don’t think they were copying any other movie, they were just realizing what Roddenderry originally imagined, a Spock/Uhura romance (and that’s a fact).

87. nerdinpink - April 23, 2010

I rather like this pairing, but if they do break up I think it would be more interesting if Uhura broke up with Spock. Another good way to do it is if that kiss was there first one and then when they try the relationship thing it doesn’t really work out.

88. Pierre - April 23, 2010

#86
Chill out. Writing caps is YELLING!

By the way, his name was Roddenberry.

89. Capt. of the USS Anduril - April 23, 2010

Vulcans don’t only mate every 7 years. It’s just that they HAVE to mate every 7 years.

90. Gary Neumann - April 23, 2010

the only thing Zoe is mating, is ME!!!!

TE AMO NEGRA!

91. dmduncan - April 23, 2010

48: “But back to the sequel—you know who I’d love to see? T’Pring.”

Dichen Lachman from Dollhouse as T’Pring. I can sooo see that. She’d have to lose that Australian accent though. Bana did it. She can too.

92. zami - April 23, 2010

Pierre- I just had to emphasize my amazement at some of the beliefs about the S/U 2009 ship! It’s like-whoosh the whole move went over their heads! (now I”m using exclamation points, forgive me lol) Sorry for the caps but it’s crazy to me that they just write off Spock’s love for Uhura as clearly vocalized on the DVD and just say-ah get rid of it! And I meant to write Roddenberry-sorry. I know people are strict about Star Trek facts.

93. Mousling1014 - April 23, 2010

In regards to my previous posts, I still don’t feel that having Spock & Uhura together takes away from the friendship that can and will develop between Kirk and Spock and McCoy, I do feel that the characters can handle the mix. Again would I want a huge portion of the movie to be the romance between Spock & Uhura? No. But a little goes a long way and I’m ok with them being together. And since this movie brings these characters in younger, the dynamic of course is different. Kirk started on the same peer level as Sulu, Chekov, Uhura and McCoy, whereas TOS’s Kirk is a tad bit older and also has the influence of a father figure to encourage him, not so this reboot Kirk. So I would like to see the development of Kirk not just with Spock and McCoy but with the others too, and that includes Spock & Uhura together (I mean seriously just think how much fodder this relationship gives McCoy for his and Spock’s epic battles! LOL)

94. dmduncan - April 23, 2010

63: “Sorry guys. The relationship exists. It is now reboot canon. S/U is here. It appeared to be written as if Spock chose to stay on the Enterprise with Uhura b/c he was doing “what felt right” as Spock Prime had suggested him to do. No, he wasn’t only there for Kirk because K/S were not at that point firmly established as friends.”

1. So, unlike in real life, relationships in canon-verse do not end?

2. Spock was CLEARLY ready to forsake Enterprise until Spock Prime inspired him to stay aboard with mention of the friendship and accomplishments he and Kirk would have.

Notice, Spock Prime didn’t mention anything about a relationship he, Spock the younger, would have with Uhura, which, if Spock Prime had also had one, as some of you imaginative fans like to fantasize that he had, must not have been memorable enough to Spock Prime to include as a selling point to alternate Spock to remain aboard the ship

Of course, all this would have been MUCH better portrayed with the excised Shatner scene, with Kirk Prime’s message to Spock Prime being the motivation for alternate Spock to rejoin the crew.

Okay, so that’s a dead horse now, but I can’t resist kicking the thing every time I walk by anyway.

95. DGill - April 23, 2010

Uhura and Spock mating on screen? NOOO!

96. Michael Hall - April 23, 2010

“Of course, all this would have been MUCH better portrayed with the excised Shatner scene, with Kirk Prime’s message to Spock Prime being the motivation for alternate Spock to rejoin the crew.”

We agree again! Damn!

“Okay, so that’s a dead horse now, but I can’t resist kicking the thing every time I walk by anyway.”

Keep kicking away, my friend. It only gets more fun over time. :-)

97. Pierre - April 23, 2010

#91

Thanks. My headache already feels better. lol

I recall very well that JJ had a clear marketing goal set: To cater to a greater audience than the fanbase. The S/U romance was his way to do so. On the other hand, you cannot please everybody as this thread clearly shows.

98. angie - April 23, 2010

The reboot romance rocked! Keep them together and BOLDLY GO in the new direction!

99. Denise de Arman - April 23, 2010

zami#91- Yes, we know how in love you are with the S/U concept. However, as you can tell from the poll, almost half of us voting here are NOT in love with the concept. So, you can continue to pontificate concerning the rightness of your position until the stars fall out of the sky – I seriously doubt you will change anyone’s mind.

100. dmduncan - April 23, 2010

I don’t want to see some silly Spock-Uhura romantic sub plot or pointless lengthy sex scenes that are a waste of celluloid in just about every movie that they appear.

If you are going to show love between them, show that. What’s that got to do with sex scenes? Are some of your minds so atrophied from lack of use that you don’t know the difference? Or do you just not care?

Here’s an example of the pernicious effect of meaningless pop culture and the zombie news media. It subverts your ability to make distinctions.

95: “We agree again! Damn!”

I don’t remember, Michael. Did we disagree before?

101. Odkin - April 23, 2010

We need intelligent bold space adventure.

Not a forced romance chick-flick.

Why does Hollywood not understand showmanship anymore? Why is everything about pandering?

Was there a girl on the A-Team? Every notice how the girl in the Indiana Jones movies was comic releif? It’s because they were MEN ‘s SHOWS.

102. dmduncan - April 23, 2010

Once again, I have to mention Firefly and Serenity in connection with my post at 99. By Serenity we get to see Kaylee finally gets her man, Dr. Simon Tam.

We also get to see that Mal and Inara do NOT have sex. And yet the relationship between Mal and Inara, who is basically a prostitute, is the most powerful and most meaningful relationship in the series. And the fact that Inara’s career is to have sex with people, and yet she has none at all with Mal, distinguishes her feelings for him, and his for her, as love.

Sex got nothing to do with it.

103. Pat - April 23, 2010

Spock/ Uhura, boldly go where no one has gone before…
Trek wad never to be conventional and easy going. It challenged beliefs, race, and “tradition”. Trek encompassed beliefs in many species coming together to live, work, learn and even procreate. Spock and Uhura push that envelope as they should. Trek is to boldly go and challenge…. And I think it does. A girl is not going to break up our Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Did Kirk’s relationships ever stop him from hanging out with the boys? I think the reboot can handle a little romance from Spock and Uhura. Again, I love the pairing. It’s cool with me.

104. Odkin - April 23, 2010

Should be more clear – nothing against women. Uhura SHOULD be a professional crewmate teammember. If they try to bring in sexual tension or romance it should be of the Captain’s woman/Mirror, Mirror/Vina variety. In other words NOT A CREWPERSON.

105. zami - April 23, 2010

#98-Denise
you said:
“So, you can continue to pontificate concerning the rightness of your position until the stars fall out of the sky – I seriously doubt you will change anyone’s mind.”
Did you notice that in responses to the poll above if you combine those wanting them to have a baby or wanting more or a little S/U which is positive to Spock/Uhura that it’s more than half? Meaning your state about me changing anybody’s mind can be applied to your self righteous pontification also.

106. Pierre - April 23, 2010

There has been love interests among crewmembers in the series, including, well, all of the main characters in TNG, DS9, and of course the romance between TPol and Trip in ENT, and others. Romance though has no place on a Starfleet bridge. Then again, with a known S/U romance, this should give McCoy an armada of off-hand remarks to tell to Spock. That should be enough to kill the romance then and there.

107. Trek Lady - April 23, 2010

#91 “It’s like-whoosh the whole move went over their heads! ”

Ummm. So the “whole movie” was somehow about the Spock/Uhura romance? Yeah, I guess that did go over my head.

Actually, shortly after the film, (even though I did not personally like the idea of a Spock/Uhura romance), I was okay with the idea of S/U continuing to be a small subplot.

However, the nasty backlash I have seen towards those who did not enjoy S/U, – the accusation of racism and sexism and various other -isms – simply because people did not like the S/U relationship as it was portrayed (regardless as to why) has made me much less accepting.

108. Trek Lady - April 23, 2010

#86 “To Trek Lady and Denise de Arman-I hear that you think Spock went back to the Enterprise solely because he was destined to be friends with Kirk???? …… That his love for the Enterprise, his career as a Starfleet officer, his associations with others had nothing to do with his decision not to help his people who had lost their PLANET. ”

I don’t remember saying anything about Kirk being the “sole” reason Spock chose to return. Rather, I am sure all the things your listed were a factor in his final decision, as well as his relationship with Uhura – however, ALL those things were well known to him and considered BEFORE he chose to leave the Enterprise, his career, and his associations with others. What was NOT known to him was how important his relationship with Kirk was going to be, or could be…THAT was the new information which lead him to make a new decisions to follow his feelings.

Again, you could interpret this to mean that the “follow your feelings” thing was the catalyst to get him to return to Uhura – but if that was what we were supposed to get out of this, then the whole speech about the importance of Kirk was an unnecessary red-herring, and generally, movies don’t waste major speeches on obscure references that totally mislead the audience. If it was all about returning to Uhura, then the writers would have left out the part emphasizing the primary relationship with Kirk and stuck with the “do what feels right” alone.

109. Denise de Arman - April 23, 2010

zami#105- I am here to state my opinion, not to rail against those who do not happen to share my point of view, as you did in post #92. Nothing self-rightgeous about that. Except possibly to you, since I do not agree with your point of view. Being able to state one’s opinion without belittling the opinion of another is a good thing – some would say it is a mark of maturity.

110. Areli - April 23, 2010

If people say that Uhura/Spock brought out another side of Spock we have never seen before, then they have obviously haven’t seen “This Side of Paradise” or any episode that involves Jim being in danger, hurt, missing, presumed-dead.

It is a relationship that doesn’t need to exist. I don’t mind stepping out of canon but I don’t like how their relationship has taken over the plot of the movie. I want my McSpirk friendship. D: Not the UhuraSpock sexytimes. And especially not the UhuraSpock Pon Farr sexytimes. That would be even worse.

I want Uhura to be the independent woman they introduced her to be at the beginning of the movie. Not the girlfriend of Spock. And Spock needs to be friends to Jim and Doctor McCoy.

And where the heck is Nurse Chapel (besides in the background being ordered around once by Bones)? I found the onesided love of hers in the show to be more entertaining than the thrown-in-your-face-Uhura/Spock thing.

So I hope the raging S/U fans remember this: Spock got on the Enterprise because of Jim. Not Uhura. He was going to leave to New Vulcan and never come back until Spock Prime told him about the “epic friendship” Spock would have with Jim. Not the epic mating he would have with Uhura.

Also, we know how most relationships in ST go. (They END. Save for McSpirk. That lives on forever.)

Now I end my rant and say “End it.” End it like crushing a roach with a hammer.

111. zami - April 23, 2010

Denise- I wouldn’t call saying someone is “pontificating” is very respectful.
Trek Lady-don’t you think the really important statement that might have also influenced Spock was Spock Prime saying-”and yet you can be in TWO places at once”. So Prime was freeing him of his feeling physically obligated to go to New Vulcan because they are after all the same person. This to me was the new info-it was amazing and the writers thinking of it was brilliant. It set Spock free to go back to the Enterprise and all that comes with it. Did you not hear Spock say before he set off to save Earth that it was his only “home” now? And he looked at Uhura when he said it. So one can also conclude that going to New Vulcan was something he did not “feel” like doing-because of one of the reasons being he considered Earth his home. I’m not looking for the romance hints-the writers practically knock you upside the head with it in the DVD extras, much more so than the movie.

112. Denise de Arman - April 23, 2010

Areli#110- Snap!

113. Pierre - April 23, 2010

To state the obvious: We may not agree with each other but we all have something in common: We all love Trek. Love you all. The End.

114. Jane - April 23, 2010

wow, how do I explain my thoughts on Spock/Uhura?

Well I can’t say I loved or hated it.

I don’t know if anyone else saw it this way, but when she was kissing him after Vulcan went, she was saying “I’m sorry.God, I’m so sorry” blah blah blah….So really it wasn’t a romantic “I’m so in love with you” kiss….it was more of a “I feel so sympathetic to wards you so I want to comfort you” kiss.

I think they should have kept it at that.

It would have been better if that was all that went on, no long term relationships, no more kissing, nothing after that. I think if she just kissed him that once to comfort him and then went back to her life and he back to his. It would then kind of be some kind of little “thing” they shared only for a moment. THAT would make them both a lot more interesting [I'm not saying they aren't interesting, it just would have added to their characters a bit more]

But then they had to kiss again and start this big relationship that is going to cause the writers problems in the future.

Such as the topic of this article.

Who agrees?

115. penny - April 23, 2010

Two words: Alternate Universe. This is Abrahms ST. It’s made for a different demo than our TOS.

I would have preferred Kirk/Uhura, Pine and Saldana were smokin’. But Spock/Uhura were nice too. I vote they keep them, but they won’t be the center of the movie’s universe. I really don’t see a problem.

116. Areli - April 23, 2010

#114, I agree with that. If anything, by starting the relationship it ruined any kind of relationship build-up if that was desired by the writers. Now it is obvious they are dating. And considering the hint of how long they have been “dating”, it just makes it seem like the next logical step is marriage and children, which it isn’t.

The relationship was tackled all wrong. I would have found sexual tension more entertaining than them kissing in the turbolift or on the transporter pad.

Sexual tension, to me, seems to gain more attention than outright love. If it had been done that way, maybe I would be more accepting of it. But it was just thrown at us with and if it happens it is canon.

At least with sexual tension there would have been room for Jim, McCoy, Chapel and Scotty to get in on the action.

Jim could flirt with Uhura, secretly flirt with Spock (because it wouldn’t be a TOS reboot if there wasn’t some Spock/Jim eye action and “so totally harmless” smiles), Chapel could dote over Spock, McCoy could tease Spock about the feelings of love, Uhura could continue to flirt with Spock, and Scotty can “mind the shop” while they are all doing this! (and flirt with Uhura if you want to go with ST:V canon.)

117. T.'. - April 23, 2010

T.’.

Possible sub-plot — the new Vulcan Science Academy determines that their species must grow through several “baby booms” to survive. meaning that eligible Vulcans would have to mate with multiple partners to replenish the species. Could the Uhura/Spock relationship could survive a form of polyamory/andry/gamy?

T.’.

118. dmduncan - April 23, 2010

Spock/Uhura was not written as this great love story, or even as implying one. Uhura had feelings for Spock, Spock was vulnerable due to the loss of his mother and entire planet.

So how does the relationship pan out when Spock doesn’t feel vulnerable anymore and Uhura wants to do something like, oh, go dancing? We gonna see Spock do the robot and moon walking across the dance floor too?

Spock and Uhura go together like a mustache on Keira Knightley.

119. MC1 Doug - April 23, 2010

Here’s the military asnwer to this dilemma. If either of them are serious about their commissions, the romance will have to stop. There is no such thing as permitting a romance or affair to continue when two members are in the same chain of command.

It is bad leadership. It is bad for morale (except perhaps for those involved). And it would be bad for those from the outside looking in.

It is just NOT a good thing to permit to happen or continue. If, in this case, it does continue, this would surely have to be one of Kirk’s first command decisions to put a lid on it for the best of the command.

120. Phasers On Stun - April 23, 2010

I say keep it! It was one of the best things about the movie. It will be interesting to see how it’s handled moving forward. But which ever way JJ decides to to go, it will add a lot of heart to the film. If they break up it will make for some real emotional moments as well. And they could always kiss and make up in the 3rd film…or not.

121. FarStrider - April 23, 2010

It’s ridiculous how predictable this site is when it comes to this subject. . . let an actor/writer/JJ will mention something about Spock and Uhura, and the same people will make the same arguments and someone will throw up a poll which will have approximately the same results. . . 40-something percent absolutely hate the relationship but more than half love it / like it / tolerate it. . . people who hate it will argue that the relationship is illogical because of something in TOS (but will ignore the things in TOS that hurt their arguments), and want S/U to break up between movies, or maybe have the writers kill Uhura off in the next movie because she is taking up time that should belong to McCoy and the epic threesome, or the writers should just pretend it didn’t happen blah blah blah. . . . and those who like it will say something to the effect that this is an Alternative Universe, and it gives the characters more depth and the haters are not the only Star Trek fans and should get over themselves blah blah blah. . . and let’s not even start with the slash fans. . . and this thread will become the most active on the site until the next Spock/Uhura thread comes along in about three months. . . Meh. . . the writers will do what they want, and I don’t think any polls here or anywhere else are going to influence them. . . (I hope not, anyway. . . fans are not necessarily the best judge of what is a good story)

~FS

122. M_E - April 23, 2010

“If, in this case, it does continue, this would surely have to be one of Kirk’s first command decisions to put a lid on it for the best of the command.”

Really… :)
With the womanizer way Kirk is portrayted in this universe, Spock and Uhura would have to make a major screw-up to have him involved in their relationship; as long as they behave on the bridge, what they do outside is their business only.

123. Areli - April 23, 2010

#120, There are plenty of places where the heart of the story will shine through. In TOS, friendship was the heart of the show. In the movie, the Spock/Uhura relationship didn’t make any kind of heart. It made the imitation of one to an audience who thinks romance and making out are the only way to make a film good.

Star Trek isn’t about the love, it is about exploring space and building companionship and camaraderie. Romance, if it truly amounts to anything, is merely a minor piece of the story.

And like #119 said, their relationship isn’t something that should be condoned. tStarfleet runs like military force. They have codes of conduct and the heads of command on a ship aren’t suppose to engage in romantic relationships with other officers. It is also like any other work environment. If you are having inner-office relationships with other employees, you are pretty much forfeiting your job for fraternization.

Of course, I know the movie won’t address that…well…knowing Spock he would probably cite regulation and I am sure Starfleet would have a regulation like that. I am sure it is fine for non-command officers to have relationships but the command team is suppose to stay away from that in order to stay from favoritism and issues that might arise from a break up.

And I can say that the heat of Vulcan’s core itself will find it’s way on the bridge if anything not-good happens between Spock and Uhura. Oooo…I want to see that. And their breakup. That will be beautiful to see onscreen. And because I can’t see Spock and Uhura running towards each other is passionate lust to have a make up make out session, it will be permanent!

124. Robofuzz - April 23, 2010

The Spock/Uhura story was really the only thing that made me roll my eyes in the theater. I thought it was gratuitous and out of character for both of them.

125. The TOS Purist aka The Purolator - April 23, 2010

Ugh.

126. junglefever - April 23, 2010

I am willing to mate with Uhura if people don’t want Spock to do it.

127. Brie - April 23, 2010

I loved the Spock/Uhura aspect. It was subtle, and wonderful. Didn’t hurt that Quinto and Saldana have great chemistry either.

128. Rusty0918 - April 23, 2010

It depends on how it’s done. I don’t mind the romance.

But they better not overshoot to ridiculous lengths.

The big concern is if the sequel is another “Revenge of the Fallen,” if you get my gist.

129. ryanhuyton - April 23, 2010

If Zoe Saldana continues to make demands, like more screen time and a continuation of the romance between Spock and Uhura, then she should be fired and replaced by another actress. Uhura has her place on the bridge. Zoe Saldana has her place in the pecking order when it comes to screen time. Its just that simple.

And there should be absolutely NO ROMANCE IN THE SEQUEL except between Scotty and the Enterprise. Pandering to women by throwing in romance in a movie that should be about action and exploration is guaranteed to drive women away. If women (or men for that matter) want romance, they will go see a Jennifer Aniston flick. Star Trek and romance just don’t mix. Riker/Troi, Worf/Jadzia being the exceptions.

130. Iowagirl - April 23, 2010

Ah, the rumors on the sensitive subjects start early to make our feelings run high…;-)

People who loved the strands incongruous to TOS will love their continuation, too, and people who felt queasy about them will still feel that way when the sequel comes out.

From a TOS view the S/U angle doesn’t make any sense – maybe that’s the reason why Abrams/Orci made it up in the first place. :)

#46
Yep!

131. ryanhuyton - April 23, 2010

Err, and Trip/T’pol was good.

132. Ves - April 24, 2010

Oh hell no!It’s Star Trek,not not soap opera!

133. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

#116 lol I don’t know about Quinto but i don’t think Chris Pine will go for that. He said he wouldn’t have wanted to wrestle with Charlie X shirtless, so I can’t see him wanting to even hint at anything of a sexual nature with Spock!
Why can’t men have male friends that they have a non-sexual love and affection for? Thats how I see Kirk and Spock. And I think that was how it was intended.

134. Chasco - April 24, 2010

Zoe really needs to zip it now. Nichelle Nicholls spent forty years establishing Uhura as a strong, competent, independent woman who was on the Bridge of the Enterprise totally on merit, totally on her own terms.
Yet Saldana seems to think that all this character is about is bonking her senior officer(s).
Which of these role models would you want YOUR daughter to follow?

135. Phasers On Stun - April 24, 2010

#123 – you make a lot of good points. A friendship can be just as effective. But I still feel the relationship added another positive element to the film. I would like to see it played out regardless of how it ends (break up or continuation). As for dating in the workplace, Military or civilian, it is the 23rd century. Maybe it’s not frowned upon quite so much since the human race has matured a little. After all, Kirk had a relation with crew (Dagger of the Mind) and Picard was dating one of the crew (can’t remember the name of the episode). Wasn’t Worf or Riker dating Deanna in TNG. So it’s not like the movie was really breaking new ground in the Star Trek relationship universe.

It certainly won’t be the main plot item of the next film and I think it’s unrealistic to think that it will. Zoe will not be the headliner of the next film, Chris and Zack will. Besides, Zoe has spent more time pushing for an action scene (kicking butt along with the boys) more than the relationship with Spock (for those who have been reading the board of late). Which is not far off from classic Uhura kicking ass in Gamesters of Triskelion and Mirror Mirror.

It’s obvious this is a controversial issue (at least here it is) which guarantees we will see more of the S/U relationship in the next movie. Isn’t life wonderful!

136. jeannie Spock - April 24, 2010

I would have liked to have seen how Spock and Uhura first got together. I thought is was a shame that the events of the movie was set AFTER their relationship started. Maybe the only way to show it now would be in a flashback. Pity they didn’t feature anything about Spock’s early experiences at the Acadamy – that would have made an interesting storyline in it’self.
I was hoping the last movie would have been more concentrated on Spock’s life but it seems Kirk got more attention. When the movie was first announced the writers said it was Spock’s story, pity there seemed to have been a u-turn.

137. Sunspot - April 24, 2010

I am not a fan of the Spock/Uhura romance, but with the destruction of Vulcan and the death of his mother one wonders whether logic or emotion will win out with Spock in the reboot universe.

If emotion wins out Spock will pursue his human love for Uhura, perhaps driven by the loss of his mother to draw close to another human female.

If logic wins out, the destruction of the planet Vulcan and the loss of most of its genetic diversity should compel Spock to mate with another pure Vulcan to help preserve the Vulcan gene pool and rebuild the race.

From a dramatic/cinematic standpoint the more human Spock becomes the less interesting and unique he becomes as a character so whatever is done should IMO emphasize Spock’s purely logical Vulcan heritage.

I vote No concerning greater romantic involvement between Uhura and Spock.

That does not mean, however, that they can’t still have a very special friendship and bond. Perhaps she could be the one he turns to for answers to questions concerning personal emotional issues and choices between logic and emotion.

138. vardoeger - April 24, 2010

This is a re-boot so it’s not going to follow canon to the letter. Spock and Uhura are together in this AU. They don’t have to get married. Them being together doesn’t automatically mean loss of action or adventure so long as the writers don’t linger on it (and they won’t because they are smarter than that and they didn’t in the first movie). Everyone is up in arms over five minutes of footage tops that basically said they were together and care for one another strongly.

I like the pairing, but I sincerely hope they skip on the Pon Farr because that’s for fan fiction to imagine and I also hope they play the relationship low key because it is different from your typical movie romances. Contrary to popular belief, you can be a competent and skilled professional and carry on a healthy relationship and if anyone can pull it off it would be a logically minded vulcan and an intelligent linguist.

There are enough ways to subtly hint to them being an item without bringing the action to a screeching halt for make out sessions which seems to be the main objection or fear here. NO ONE wants Star Trek to turn into Twilight or The Notebook, not even fans of the pairing, so ease up on the hyperbole.

139. M_E - April 24, 2010

“If logic wins out, the destruction of the planet Vulcan and the loss of most of its genetic diversity should compel Spock to mate with another pure Vulcan to help preserve the Vulcan gene pool and rebuild the race.”

The flaw here is that Spock is not a pure Vulcan, having children with a Vulcan woman would help disperse the pure Vulcan gene pool, not preserve it.

140. spockchick - April 24, 2010

#132, I thought Star Trek was a bit of a soap opera, certainly I find much of TNG unwatchable, Riker and Troi make me want to hurl, probably coz she was lovely and he – um, wasn’t. Kirk in TOS was always going gaga at women and it was heavily implied he shagged several, including speeded-up-lady in Wink of an Eye, Elaan of Troyius and a servant girl in Bread and Circuses. I think that qualifies as very soapy. Having said that, I think it would be awkward and draw too much attention to break them up. Lets have them continue on the down-low, and see more McCoy.

141. Trek Lady - April 24, 2010

#139

“NO ONE wants Star Trek to turn into Twilight or The Notebook, not even fans of the pairing, so ease up on the hyperbole.”

Are you sure about that? This is not the first time I have read a comment along the lines of “The only reason I went to see Trek ix was for the S/U romance. And I went to see it a zillion times! If there had been no S/U I would not have been interested in seeing it at all!”

If that is the case, I would say those viewers are in it solely for the romance aspect and would very much like a movie that focuses on S/U getting married and making lots of cute. little babies!

They are out there….believe me.

142. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

141: “They are out there….believe me.”

Oh they are in here too. Lots of them. If they had their way the next Star Trek would be written by Nicholas Sparks and revolve completely around Spock and Uhura.

143. Phasers On Stun - April 24, 2010

Spock and Uhura Kissed. The world is coming to an end. God save us!

144. Areli - April 24, 2010

#133, I was joking about the eye thing. I know Pine wouldn’t go for any of that (even though he played a gay guy in that one tv movie… but that is beside the point)

#135, But in the Dagger of the Mind it was a completely one-sided relationship on the side of the psychologist. And Kirk was forced to like her by that machine.

And a lot of those relationships in later series were okay. And that was in the 24th century. 23rd century can be tons-a-different.

145. Boborci - April 24, 2010

Comments noted.

146. penny - April 24, 2010

This post has descended into misogyny. “Uhura” and Saldana should know their place and that is in the shadows of “Kirk/Spock/McCoy” and the actors that play those roles. Did I get that right?

147. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

#144 No, on re-reading your post I figured you weren’t calling for an all out sexual preference change for Kirk and Spock. I get your point entirely.
Kirk and Spock did show their fondness and affection for each other more than once. I guess its that Band of Brothers thing?

145, Bob, which particular comments have you noted? Cos some want Spock and Uhura to do the They are an Item thing, and some don’t.
Which would be your preference? (i’m not really expecting a straight answer lol)

146, yes, I would say you got that pretty much spot on.

148. Trey - April 24, 2010

I think they should keep the relationship between Spock and Uhura. I wished they explained how they hooked up.

149. Happy Russia - April 24, 2010

As if Spock’s character wasn’t done badly enough. I mean, his planet gets blown up, his mom dies, he’s the target of a maniacal Romulan…. But to make matters worse, he’s brought even MORE out of character in this half-assed romance.

Mating is required every seven years for a Vulcan or else they die. Was this forgotten? Yes, a Vulcan can love, but it doesn’t mean that they mate every so often as humans do. It’s not sexual attraction, it’s a connection, a bonding kind of love. Then again, this is a movie, and it has to pander to its audience. Therefore there’s alot of face sucking between them and not much in the way of romantic chit-chat or even anything that makes ME think, “Wow, these two are really in love.” The way I see it is, “Okay, yeah, they’re just f*** buddies.”

150. Boborci - April 24, 2010

147

Read them all. Noted the smart ones.

I keeeed!

151. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

#149 I disagree. Uhura was definitely in love with Spock I would say. it was more than just physical. She really cared for Spock. (imo.)
As to what Spock though of her, who knows? And as he’s Vulcan thats as it should be. lol

I still know I could have done without the whole thing though.

152. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

#150 wow, that was straighter than I thought, and yet still told us nothing. Kudos to you, sir!

153. Michael Hall - April 24, 2010

Penny,

No disrespect intended, but I think the notion that Uhura should be defined first and foremost as a serious professional on the bridge (the place where everyone on the ship, male and female, aspires to be), rather than as a love interest for the male lead, is the furthest thing possible from “misogyny.”

154. FarStrider - April 24, 2010

@139 Let’s not forget the logic that Spock is also capable of beinig two places at once. . . :)

@150 Hahahahaha you tell them. . .

@151 So, the fact that Spock’s last message, if he were to die was not to his father but to: “Tell Lt. Uhura that I. . . ” before Kirk cut him off means nothing?

@153 No one here is complaining about McCoy’s unprofessionalism in smuggling his academically BFF on board the Enterprise. . . no one here is complaining that Kirk was totally insubordinate during almost his entire time on the Enterprise. . .so, when you bring up only Uhura’s “professionalism”. . . yeah. . . misogyny comes to mind. . .

~FS

155. FarStrider - April 24, 2010

@153 “academically suspended” BFF. . . brain was thinking faster than my fingers. . .

156. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

@151 So, the fact that Spock’s last message, if he were to die was not to his father but to: “Tell Lt. Uhura that I. . . ” before Kirk cut him off means nothing

154, very good point. I’d forgotten that. But we still don’t know what he was going to ask Jim to tell her. He may have been asking her to take his pet selat in should he not return. Or to water his bonsai collection. It could have been any number of things.

157. FarStrider - April 24, 2010

@156 Yeah. . I’ll grant you that he “could” have been going to say that. . .but when a person is going on what amounts to a suicide mission, his last thoughts and messages is generally not going to be to tell his aide that he wants her to have his tea set. . .

~FS

158. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

141 & 142

There are extremes on any side. S/U has it’s twihard-esque shippers as does K/S (a lot of who are lurking in this thread posting out of hatred, not so subtly dropping hints of what ship they want to see)

159. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

157 But he is very logical. So practicality will win out over love. Everytime. lol

No, in all seriousness, i agree with you. They are in Love.
So Trek 2012 to open with a wedding. Brilliant. That hasn’t been done before. Oh, wait……..

160. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

So now we can add “misogyny” to the list of words to call those who are opposed to Spock-Uhura. Tell all the women who know me that I’m a misogynist and see what sort of reaction you get. The sort that would make you feel stupid, that’s what sort.

151: I disagree. It was obvious that Uhura had feelings for Spock, and that she was very sympathetic to his pain because of what had happened, but at no point did I think I was watching the start of some great love story. It felt to me that she felt very sorry for him and those emotions gave her an opening to play a supportive role, but it was not like Mal and Inara, from Firefly/Serenity, or like Hawkeye and Cora, from Last of the Mohicans.

In addition, Spock was ready to leave Starfleet and join New Vulcan until Spock Prime changed his mind, and Uhura was ready to jaunt around the galaxy without him aboard the Enterprise.

Uhura’s smile at the end when Spock appeared on the bridge said it all. She was happy he was there — but she was still leaving if he wasn’ t.

Uhura is simply not the same sort of “stand by your Vulcan” woman that Spock’s mom is. Was.

161. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

158: It’s obvious some here want the Nicholas Sparks-ization of Star Trek. Not sure what you mean by the K/S thing.

162. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

#160 oh damn. You are also right. Bob, bin that wedding scene.

So how do you decide which comments are smart, Bob? Cos they are all smart to me! lol

Maybe thats why I’m not on the big bucks. :-)

163. Khan was Framed! - April 24, 2010

This relationship was great & unexpected!

For the sequel, however it must be challenged; Spock must come to the logical conclusion that he cannot be with someone under his command.

We also need to see him working harder on pushing away all of his emotional ties, as they will rule his decision making as first officer, if he does not.

With Vulcan destroyed, he’ll be compelled to honor it’s heritage more than ever… perhaps with a Vulcan wife?

164. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

160. Uhura’s smile at the end when Spock appeared on the bridge said it all. She was happy he was there — but she was still leaving if he wasn’ t.

I took that as it went the way they had hoped. But I could still see her leaving without him because they are two independent people who probably prefer to be together but if duty or necessity called for them to part, could accept it.

165. FarStrider - April 24, 2010

@160 “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.” Spock’s people are basically on the endangered species list. . .of course he’s ready to leave Star Fleet to go to New Vulcan to do what he can to help. . . he also didn’t have the information that Spock Prime was there. . . and what role do you propose Uhura would have had if she left her career for New Vulcan? She can’t genetically contribute to rebuilding their race. . .so it’s logical that she would have stayed with her career. . . the one she worked very hard for. . .being in love doesn’t mean you have to sacrifice everything you are. . .

“Uhura is simply not the same sort of “stand by your Vulcan” woman that Spock’s mom is. Was.” And maybe Spock doesn’t need the same kind of woman that Amanda was to his father. . .maybe he needs one that will stand up to him and tell him he’s being illogical. . .

~FS

166. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

163 I’m all for a Vulcan wedding. We may get a chance to hear that brilliant TOS Vulcan wedding party music reworked.
Fantastic!

167. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

165: “maybe he needs one that will stand up to him and tell him he’s being illogical. . . ”

Maybe Spock doesn’t “need” a woman at all. Turn that about a bit and talk about what sort of man Uhura “needs” and I do believe some would scream misogyny. Why should you get away with saying that about men?

“what role do you propose Uhura would have had if she left her career for New Vulcan?”

Doesn’t matter. Being “in love” does tend to make you do crazy things in proportion to how much “in love” you are. If you mean a sort of arranged marriage kind of creeping love, that’s another matter entirely. But that is not what we saw either.

I saw an emotionally vulnerable Spock and an Uhura who had feelings for him trying to give comfort.

So the question remains, whether you want to consider the implications or not. How does the logic of Spock’s character play out in that relationship when he is NOT emotionally compromised, as I expect him not to be in the next film?

168. Mousling1014 - April 24, 2010

Well I stand by my posts of last night, I’m perfectly ok and fine with having Spock & Uhura together. I mean seriously, all this wigging out of what amounted to around 5 minutes total of screen time in the last movie? The Enterprise’s shuttles and the lensflare got more screen time! We need to wait and see what the writers come up with next. I really don’t feel that Spock & Uhura were the focus of the last movie. I’m sorry, but I don’t and I liked seeing them together. Having a major character’s home planet blow up and a psychopathic villain trying to erase the Federation, well I actually did notice those big plot twists ;-) Again, I know I’m in the minority here, but I really don’t feel that Spock & Uhura will take away from Kirk/Spock/McCoy, I feel that if done right it can enhance those relationships and I’d like to see that. It just seems to me that there are so many people who are afraid of change over here. This is AU and that brings a whole new arc to the Star Trek universe and can provide us with a fresh new look for our beloved characters. I for one am going to keep an open mind and just let the writers do what they do best, which is bring us a new movie (earlier would be better wink, wink! – 2012 is way too long a wait.)

169. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

165 .maybe he needs one that will stand up to him and tell him he’s being illogical. . .

Had me up until that point. That sounds like some Harlequin Romance garbage rite there. DNW.

170. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

And Spock’s emotional vulnerability was a big issue in ST.09. The same vulnerability that gave Uhura an opening also gave Kirk an opening to exploit to force Spock out of command.

So the relevant question for the sequel and the S/U relationship is: How does Spock behave towards her when he is NOT emotionally compromised — and is what he is able and willing to give to her going to be enough for Uhura?

Perhaps loving Spock finally means for Uhura that she has to let him go and be who is, which is NOT the emotionally compromised Clint Eastwood version we saw in ST.09.

171. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

170 How does Spock behave towards her when he is NOT emotionally compromised — and is what he is able and willing to give to her going to be enough for Uhura

It was enough for them to come together in the first place so I don’t see this as a complication.

172. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

r#168 but how much change could be made before they stop being our beloved characters? I personally still have problems with Kirk. He had a completely different childhood and young adulthood* to ‘our’ Kirk and yet here he, ‘back’ on the bridge doing the hero thing. To me that is a bigger hole than Spock and Uhura getting it on.

*Not that those changes affected Spock and Uhura of course.

173. Michael Hall - April 24, 2010

“@153 No one here is complaining about McCoy’s unprofessionalism in smuggling his academically BFF on board the Enterprise. . . no one here is complaining that Kirk was totally insubordinate during almost his entire time on the Enterprise. . .so, when you bring up only Uhura’s “professionalism”. . . yeah. . . misogyny comes to mind. . .”

LOL. Seriously, have you read any of my comments regarding those issues in other threads on this very site? dmduncan, help me out here. :-)

With a h/t to Odysseus, I’m definitely not “no one.” I’ll add, though, that while I grant your point about how those characters were handled, at least they were defined by their own actions (however unprofessional, out of character, or just plain obnoxious), rather than their relationships to other people. Which would definitely not be the case with one Nyota Uhura, were her primary role to serve as Spock girlfriend.

174. Buzz Cagney - April 24, 2010

To me that is a bigger hole than Spock and Uhura getting it on.

I should have said a bigger mystery.

175. FarStrider - April 24, 2010

@173 Maybe I should have said that no one in this thread is complaining about Kirk and McCoy’s professionalism. . . also. . .McCoy wasn’t defined by his relationship to Kirk? What movie did you watch? . . . almost everything he did in the movie was in someway related to Kirk. . . getting him on the Enterprise, the allergy sequence, arguing with Spock. . . McCoy and Uhura served the same role in the film: He supported Kirk and opposed Spock, she supported Spock and opposed Kirk. . .

176. T'Pirk - April 24, 2010

End it end it END IT NOW!!! It’s one of the most shallow one-sided “romances” I’ve ever seen, comparable to Edward and Bella from Twilight. It does NOT work AT ALL!!!

177. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

171: “It was enough for them to come together in the first place so I don’t see this as a complication.”

They came together under extraordinary circumstances — Spock loses his home world and his mother minutes apart. How can you fail to consider those extremely unusual circumstances, their effect on Spock, and also how Spock might change when those circumstances no longer affect his character?

Well, you can. It’s called contrivance. That’s where you ignore the integrity of your characters and make them do or say anything you want simply because you want to and you can rather than writing them as the individual personalities they are.

It’s actually quite laughable to read those comments that accuse those of us who oppose S/U as opposing change, when in fact they are trying to make Spock less alien and more “the same” as every other character by this S/U romance, thus expressing how uncomfortable with those differences they are themselves, whereas I have no such problem with what makes Spock different.

The ones who demand S/U are afraid of change, because they are uncomfortable with the portrayal of a logical alien who doesn’t need to have a mate more than once every 7 years.

178. Michael Hall - April 24, 2010

“What movie did you watch?”

Sadly, the same movie you did. Throughout which I devoutly wished for a better one.

Ok, FarStrider, ya got me. In Trek 2009, Leonard McCoy did pretty much serve as a foil/sidekick for Kirk, and little else. Does copping to that, and hoping (without much hope) for better in the future make me a mysanthropist? Or was that simply just not the topic of this particular thread to begin with?

Again–I don’t see how a preferance to treat this character as a skilled professional first, girlfriend second (or, hopefully, not at all) can fit any reasonable definition of the word “mysoginistic,” unless, pace Roberto Orci, we’re now in an alternate quantum reality where words have entirely different meanings.

179. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

173: You know, I’ve never made the argument that S/U should not be continued because of professionalism. Maybe today’s military standard will change by then. I would be surprised if it didn’t.

And I’ve already written enough in previous threads to publish a small book on why I think they should find a nice way to tie up S/U (notice I did not say “ignore S/U”) rather than make it bigger.

180. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

177 Based on their tet-a-tet after Uhura was assigned to the Farragut, it was obvious to me that the two of them had something going on previously hence the need to avoid the appearance of favrortisim. So its safe to assume they were functioning as a couple before everyone was blown up and killed.

Quote: “The ones who demand S/U are afraid of change, because they are uncomfortable with the portrayal of a logical alien who doesn’t need to have a mate more than once every 7 years.”

Try not to paint with such a broad brush plz. Especially when you yourself seem to understand the hazards of generalizations ( Quote: It’s actually quite laughable to read those comments that accuse those of us who oppose S/U as opposing change, )

Yes I am in favor of the pairing and I’d like it to stay but that’s not to say I want Spock to become Casanova. The kind of consideration and attention Sarek showed Amanda will do.

181. FarStrider - April 24, 2010

@171 Spock and Uhura were already in an established relationship. . . and what’s more, someone already KNEW they were in a relationship, hence, the “avoiding the appearance of favoritism” comment during the ship assignment scene. . . hence the “Spock, where are you going?” scene before he beams down to Vulcan (her use of his name, not rank shows that they are close, the fact that he tells her, shows us that cares for her), the fact that just after his fight on the bridge the 2 people whose opinion of him matters (Sarek and Uhura) about are highlighted. . . the fact that *he* is the one who pulled *her* onto the transporter pad for the goodbye kiss. . . the fact that his last words were going to be for her, the fact that he immediately looks for her and reaches for her hand when he is beamed from the Jellyfish. . . there are little clues everywhere, that they are already *in* a relationship. .. you may not want to see them, but they *are* there. . .

This is an alternate universe, whatever their characters and destinies were in TOS do not apply here. . .

182. Michael Hall - April 24, 2010

“Maybe today’s military standard will change by then. I would be surprised if it didn’t.”

I would agree, so far as the rigidity of the rules and the punishments for breaking them is concerned. And if you count TNG as a legitimate sequel to TOS (I do), Picard was able to engage in a romance with one of his people, only ending when he realized it wasn’t a good idea for either of them. So, it’s possible. Still, there are plenty of reasons why it isn’t a good idea to get emotionally involved with someone under your command, whatever the rules say. I just don’t believe engaging in such behavior, any more than Kirk would. And there are plenty of interesting things in the galaxy to keep the crew of the Enterprise occupied without the intrusion of a silly love triangle.

183. Mousling1014 - April 24, 2010

#174 Buzz- I actually agree with you, I said that in my posts last night that we are dealing with such a different character in this rebooted Kirk vs TOS Kirk. I guess I should have made myself more clear in that I’m willing to be open and see what will come next for Kirk and crew. I mean this movie has taken away quite a bit from what is the TOS universe: what with the destruction of Vulcan, losing Amanda (no Journey to Babel add in now) This AU Sarek doesn’t seem quite as angsty with Spock as TOS Sarek did, no Kirk being raised by George and Winona. And I too have problems with Kirk, in this reboot he is basically shown as a deliquent before saving the known universe..blah..blah.blah and now we have him even younger than before and being made Captain of the Federation’s flagship. My hope is that they do explore his maturing and becoming the Captain we all know (which are the changes I’m actually looking for, sorry for not making it clearer – the brain thinks faster than the fingers typing.) I just still don’t see Spock & Uhura as the big focus in this movie or them being a big focus in the next one, I just really do feel that the writers are smarter than that. But I’m ok with them showing a little of a relationship with them, but again a little goes a long way. As far as Vulcan’s destruction..oy! I don’t envy the writing that’s going to be done on that! Yikes!

184. Michael Hall - April 24, 2010

Sorry, meant to say that I don’t buy the notion of Spock engaging in such behavior, any more than Kirk would. :-)

185. pock speared - April 24, 2010

i was delighted by the pairing; mostly because for once kirk got kb’d and spock scored the smart one. originally, spock was adored in TOS by the female audience by the fact that he “could not feel”. the real revelation was sarak declaring to spock that he married amanda “because he loved her”. our new spock has a whole new dad to work with now in the fact they share the loss. nimoy always said he played the part as someone who had deep emotions that were forever kept in check. at the cost of his planet, his mother, and uhura’s desire to care for him have compromised his coldness. best to b’orci for having the guts to explore this.

186. boborci - April 24, 2010

So it’s unanimous then? Open on the wedding?

187. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

180: “Based on their tet-a-tet after Uhura was assigned to the Farragut, it was obvious to me that the two of them had something going on previously hence the need to avoid the appearance of favrortisim. So its safe to assume they were functioning as a couple before everyone was blown up and killed.”

I don’t think it’s safe to assume that at all. I saw an assertive human female who decided she could pressure her Vulcan instructor into making the change, and she used good logical reasons to effect his own change of mind.

She didn’t use any information about some prior relationship to influence him at all. And I’m glad you brought that scene up, because it actually makes my point better than yours: What were the depth of his feelings for her if he was trying to get her away from him in service aboard another starship? What sort of “prior” relationship did they have where he wasn’t even strongly motivated to serve aboard the same ship as her, and was in fact trying to avoid the APPEARANCE of favoritism by NOT assigning her to the most desirable ship in the fleet, which itself was reason enough to serve aboard the Enterprise whether Spock was also going there or not?

She was the best at what she did, she deserve to be on the Enterprise, and was even more qualified to be a bridge officer than the man she relieved.

Her expertise is what she used against Spock to get him to change his mind. It was logical.

“Try not to paint with such a broad brush plz.”

To be fair, unless I mention you specifically you are putting yourself under the swath of my brush, not me. I didn’t say ALL people in favor of S/U also accuse the opposing group of fear of change; only a subgroup of those favoring S/U are making that lame argument.

“Yes I am in favor of the pairing and I’d like it to stay but that’s not to say I want Spock to become Casanova. The kind of consideration and attention Sarek showed Amanda will do.”

But Sarek and Amanda are different people in different situations from Spock and Uhura. Uhura is clearly not going to follow Spock wherever he goes, and as much as anything else you have to recognize those sorts of character traits as well. Uhura is not Amanda.

188. Mousling1014 - April 24, 2010

#186 – Bob: I’m sure I’m not the only one to tell you that you better not be playing on here all the time ;-) You have a fantastic script to write for us and a movie to get out to us by 2012. There is no time to plan for a wedding! LOL

189. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

181: “and what’s more, someone already KNEW they were in a relationship, hence, the ‘avoiding the appearance of favoritism’ comment during the ship assignment scene”

Not true at all. You hardly need to be in a romantic relationship with your student to be accused of some appearance of favoritism in duty assignments.

If you have an exceptional student, which Uhura was, then there could also be visible evidence of your favoring her because you thought highly of her due to her TALENT or some other non romantic reason, as opposed to favoring her because you were in some relationship with her.

Having a romance is not the only reason others could seize on to make a claim of favoritism.

And Spock was concerned about APPEARANCES. If he was really having a relationship with Uhura he would have assigned her to a separate ship to avoid the unfair REALITY of favoritism instead of the appearance of favoritism.

190. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

186: “So it’s unanimous then? Open on the wedding?”

I’d rather you open on the divorce.

191. boborci - April 24, 2010

188. Mousling1014 – April 24, 2010

Working on it. But thanks to modern tech, I can have TWO windows open on my computer. AMAZING!

192. boborci - April 24, 2010

190. dmduncan – April 24, 2010

LOL

193. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

With Spock’s back to one side of a door, and harsh language and breaking glass coming from the other side.

194. Dennis Bailey - April 24, 2010

More Spock/Uhura. Get her out of that uniform. LOL

195. ryanhuyton - April 24, 2010

#191

Good to hear. Now tell us what you’ve wrote so far! I won’t tell anyone….

Heh heh!

196. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

187.
Because he was her teacher–which warranted that ~furtive~ glance around to see who was within ear shot of their conversation–that was the reason why he put her on the Farragut? I think that would be even more incentive, considering her skill set and achievements, to be put on the Enterprise. Professors, at least in RL, often carry their TAs and Grad students with them because they know the drill. Spock knew it was logical to have her aboard but the danger of being linked to her in an inappropriate way is what made him put her on another ship. Now a human male might disregard that and put her on the ship so she can be with him, but a vulcan would play it safe and put her on another ship. They could subsist on calls and messages, it’s not like he was intentionally banishing her from the face of universe. So I don’t see how me mentioning that scene has really helped you at all but then again, we disagree on what’s actually transpiring.

You were generalizing, d.

And again, *the kind* of consideration and attention Sarek showed Amanda would do. Uhura does not have to drop everything and run behind her vulcan man, Spock doesn’t have to hold out his fingers and say “attend” like she’s his lap dog and S/U does not need to become a carbon copy of S/A. I only mention this other famous human/vulcan couple because something akin to the same kind of interactions that they shared, ones that demonstrates the mutual admiration, respect and affection they have for one another would be enough.

197. boborci - April 24, 2010

195. ryanhuyton – April 24, 2010

FADE IN:

198. FarStrider - April 24, 2010

@178 Again–I don’t see how a preferance to treat this character as a skilled professional first, girlfriend second (or, hopefully, not at all) can fit any reasonable definition of the word “mysoginistic,” unless, pace Roberto Orci, we’re now in an alternate quantum reality where words have entirely different meanings.

I didn’t say that you were mysogynistic. . .. but that there are elements in this thread that definitely can be looked at in that way. . . and you are overlooking the fact that Uhura wasn’t “just the girlfriend” in the movie. . . she had information (that she got through means of her profession) that saved the ship. . . the fact that she backed Kirk’s claim that they were heading into a trap had nothing to do with her being Spock’s girlfriend. . . the fact that Pike placed her on the bridge had nothing to do with her being Spock’s girlfriend. . . being in a relationship does not mean you can’t be professional.

~FS

199. ryanhuyton - April 24, 2010

#197

Sweet!

200. Trek Pictures - April 24, 2010

I really hope they keep [the relationship] and continue to explore it.

201. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

200. Nice site, TrekPictures.

202. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

@196: My point is simply that perhaps they were seen together quite often but there was no romantic relationship and yet there were untrue rumors which Spock was aware of and which influenced his decision. There’s just no need to posit some prior romantic relationship between them based on anything that happened.

196: “You were generalizing, d.”

If I left out a word or two, I do apologize, and here is my clarification. I generalize all the time because there are valid generalizations to make. Whether my words included you depends on whether you fit the category of folk who make that lame argument. I certainly don’t mean to accuse all pro S/U fans of making that argument since they obviously do NOT all make that lame argument, and even a brief review of the comments here would show that. Only a few have done so.

I mentioned those comments that some S/U fans made about fear of change. Since not all S/U fans make those comments, then my own response is not a broad claim about all S/U fans.

That’s what I meant to say, and if I didn’t say it clear enough, I hope this clarification will do.

“Uhura does not have to drop everything and run behind her vulcan man,”

Clearly. She wasn’t ready to drop anything to run behind her Vulcan man.

203. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

197. boborci – April 24, 2010

195. ryanhuyton – April 24, 2010

FADE IN:

Spock is doubled over in pain, hands to groin, while Uhura towers above him in front of an open escape pod door, raving:

UHURA: You…you SLIME devil! I gave you the best weeks of my life! And this, THIS is how you repay me? There IS no latest edition of Wonkenstein’s Gorn Dialects For Dummies inside that pod! You were trying to eject me off this ship, weren’t you?

SPOCK: (grunting) Y-y-yes!

UHURA: (arms crossed, tapping foot) And what was the programmed destination?

SPOCK: (still grunting in pain) V-V-Vulcan.

204. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

202.My point is simply that perhaps they were seen together quite often but there was no romantic relationship and yet there were untrue rumors which Spock was aware of and which influenced his decision.

I find that to be a weak assumption with no basis at all (in the script or book), but by rights yours to have. Again, we disagree on what’s happening in this scene.

Quote:That’s what I meant to say, and if I didn’t say it clear enough, I hope this clarification will do.

It was clear enough the first time ’round, to be honest.

Quote:Clearly. She wasn’t ready to drop anything to run behind her Vulcan man.

Is this referring to her not being in a hurry to go to new Vulcan with him to watch him repropagate his species? If so, who would be?

I’m starting to think you just don’t like the pairing for the sake of it being, which is fine, but finding all these lacking reasons to justify it is just frustrating. Most people seem wary of it because they don’t want it to become the central focus of the next movie–and srsly I worry about that too, I like the pairing but I don’t want them making out on the transporter again like teenagers in heat–but these reasons you’re giving…ugh. I’m calling it a draw on my end. LL&P

205. ryanhuyton - April 24, 2010

I didn’t mind the romance in the first movie because I believe that it was Uhura’s way of lending support to an emotionally compromised Spock.
But I don’t think this relationship will work long term. Plus, the essence of Spock must be maintained. On “The Original Series”, Spock was the outsider who shunned his human side. With the destruction of Vulcan, Spock is now more of an outsider in many ways despite advice and words of wisdom from his father as well as his older self. Spock is caught between two worlds. One still exists and the other doesn’t. Continuing the romance with Uhura may lead to Spock’s human side to overwhelm his Vulcan side to the point that Spock is no longer similar to the character we know from TOS. The point is Spock is a changed character because of the destruction of Vulcan. But that doesn’t mean he isn’t going to continue being an “outsider”. The fact that he is only half-Vulcan while still being a member of an endangered species is going to weigh on him a lot. Especially since he is still going to be around humans. He will always be reminded of his human half. And he may not want his relationship with Uhura to compromise any balance he is striving to achieve. I don’t know if Spock can be in a continous relationship with either a human or Vulcan. I do think though that Spock and Uhura will be closer friends than they were before.

What makes the character of Spock great is the inner conflict between his human side and his Vulcan side, his logical side and his emotional side.
And a result of that may be asexuality. It doesn’t mean he can’t mate with someone, it just means he may not be able to find peace in a long term relationship.

206. AJ - April 24, 2010

I say bring the romance back, but also bring in T’Pring as the betrothed.

Also, Let’s get Zoe singing (truly one of TOS’s bizarre moments):

“Oh, on the Starship Enterprise
There’s someone who’s in Satan’s guise,
Whose devil’s ears and devil’s eyes
Could rip your heart from you!

“At first his look could hypnotize,
And then his touch would barbarize.
His alien love could victimize…
And rip your heart from you!

“And that’s why female astronauts
Oh very female astronauts
Wait terrified and overwrought
To find what he will do.

“Oh girls in space, be wary,
Be wary, be wary!
Girls in space, be wary!
We know not what he’ll do.”

(ripped from Memory Alpha)

207. TN - April 24, 2010

A+ troll effort AJ

208. ryanhuyton - April 24, 2010

#206

Highly illogical.

209. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

204: “I find that to be a weak assumption with no basis at all (in the script or book), but by rights yours to have.”

Thanks, but I’m not saying it happened that way. I’m only using plausible counter examples to your own interpretation, for which there is no support in the movie that I saw prior to Uhura openly expressing her feelings for Spock aboard the Enterprise.

“Is this referring to her not being in a hurry to go to new Vulcan with him to watch him repropagate his species? If so, who would be?”

It’s merely one reference out of several that I could and already have cited that their “relationship” was not some great love story, and could therefore be quite easily disposed of. It wasn’t an important part of the drama in the way that Mal and Inara in Firefly/Serenity was, or in the way that Hawkeye and Cora in Last of the Mohicans was.

I wouldn’t edit S/U out of ST.09, because it made sense there in the context of the events of that story, but I wouldn’t expand it in the next movie either.

And this in turn is a response to those who want to see Sparks Trek (as in Nicholas Sparks) instead of Star Trek.

“I’m starting to think you just don’t like the pairing for the sake of it being,”

Nah. Don’t know who you are or where you’ve been, but this ain’t the first S/U thread, and as I’ve said, this ain’t the first time I’ve laid out my opposition to it. In fact, compared to those other threads I’m not doing much here now but taking it easy.

210. Tina S - April 24, 2010

I must be honest. The more news and articles that I read, the less hopeful I become for Uhura’s character and her relationships to those around her. Technically she passed the Bechdel Test in the Reboot movie, but I agree with the disputes against that. From what I’ve read for the future of her role she appears to be turning into a detrimental strong female character cliche that is overused and bad for women (http://bit.ly/17eNrE).

The MPAA annual statistics show that more women go to movies than men (http://bit.ly/O5m7d). For myself, I go for the entire movie, not because there’s a romantic relationship in it or a “strong female character.” All arguing for or against a romantic relationship with Spock aside, I will not be seeing the next movie for Uhura or the Spock and Uhura relationship.

211. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

@206: First, that is NOT trolling. Second, that is hilarious to read.

Gene Roddenberry first imagined Spock as a red devil. Literally. With red skin and a tail. I think it was Herb Solow who got him to change the appearance. So that tells you what Roddenberry was thinking: A logical character that looks like the devil, luciferian bringer of knowledge, seducer of women, a challenge to religious norms of the time.

But not only did Spock’s appearance then change, so did the character. And thats what he is today. That bizarre song must be a relic of GR’s earlier concept.

212. TrekNinja - April 24, 2010

210. Strong just means they have their own goals that move beyond “I want to do whatever the male hero wants to do” or “I want to marry the male hero.”

I agree completely with this point in the essay, which is why I’m all for down playing the relationship (not ending it) and upping focus on their skills as separate individuals and what that brings to whatever their mission will be.

213. Denise de Arman - April 24, 2010

AJ#206- LOL! Kudos on the lyrics memorization. Yes, that is the song I hum to myself every day in the shower…

214. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

195. ryanhuyton: “Good to hear. Now tell us what you’ve wrote so far! I won’t tell anyone….”

197. boborci: “FADE IN:”

LOL. I’m slow today. Didn’t catch that the first time.

Surely the man is joking!

215. BringBackTrek - April 24, 2010

OMG, Nooooo!!! Scotty/Uhura 4eva!!!

216. Michael Hall - April 24, 2010

dmduncan:

“Gene Roddenberry first imagined Spock as a red devil. Literally. With red skin and a tail. I think it was Herb Solow who got him to change the appearance. So that tells you what Roddenberry was thinking: A logical character that looks like the devil, luciferian bringer of knowledge, seducer of women, a challenge to religious norms of the time.”

Actually, I doubt this is true. If you read the original description of Spock in the proposed series format it goes something like (I’m paraphrasing here; don’t have time to look it up): . . . “his appearance strikes at first as so alien and satanic that one would expect him to have a pitchfork and a red tail, but that appearance is in stark contrast to his gentle nature.” So yes, Roddenberry was trying to turn the sterotype on its head (perhaps influenced by Clarke’s Childhood’s End, now that I think of it), but I don’t think he was going for a literal version of Satan, however Solow remembered it.

Loved your S/U scene, incidentally. You should write the damned thing.

217. Nin - April 24, 2010

Loved S/U! Keep it!!

218. Trek Lady - April 24, 2010

#154 “No one here is complaining about McCoy’s unprofessionalism in smuggling his academically BFF on board the Enterprise. . . ”

And could that perhaps be because the thread is about Zoe’s discussion of what she wants for Spock and Uhura – so posters are focused on Spock and Uhura?

Nah… that would be too logical aye?

“… K/S (a lot of who are lurking in this thread posting out of hatred, not so subtly dropping hints of what ship they want to see)”

#158 You know who is lurking here and posting here? Even if they are doing it without even saying anything about K/S? And you know they are full of hate, and posting out of hatred, even if they don’t say anything hateful? Apparently all based upon not enjoying S/U… that is pretty amazing!

#167 Maybe Spock doesn’t “need” a woman at all. Turn that about a bit and talk about what sort of man Uhura “needs” and I do believe some would scream misogyny.

That is an interesting point, and one I thought about when a previous poster was going on about how the writers kept singing the praises of Uhura as Spock’s love interest and their big LOVE. I watched the interviews on the DVD, and I recall thinking that the comments about Zoe tended to focus on her beauty and her role as a love interest. As a women, it bothered me. I wanted to hear more about expanding her role as an important professional character on the bridge, not about how she and ZQ make a cool couple. I wonder how it would have gone over if the discussion of ZQ had been all about good looks and his role as a love interest in the film.

I am somewhat torn concerning my feelings for the Uhura character. (Not about the S/U romance, I am quite clear on the fact I do not like that aspect of her character). As a woman, I want to see a strong female character shine in Trek… but I fear she will take the place of McCoy and that is troubling to me. Kirk, Spock and McCoy were very deliberately designed as characters that balanced each other – logic, emotion and the bridge between the two. It was either a brilliant move on Roddenberry’s part, or glorious serendipity…but it worked beautifully. And that dynamic has endured for over 40 years. To move Uhura into a position within the big three shifts that dynamic and threatens to unbalance what has worked so well. *If* Uhura takes McCoy’s position in that triumvirate, that puts her in the “emotional” position – and to me, having a woman as the “emotional” default is too stereotypical and could too easily backfire.

219. M_E - April 24, 2010

“I say bring the romance back, but also bring in T’Pring as the betrothed.”

Except for creating tension, if the S/U is maintained, I see little use of T´Pring in any future Trek, be it a movie or new tv series; if she remains faithful to her TOS self, she would still drop Spock in the end (and we already saw that) specially now that Vulcan is gone; it would be logical for her to get the better specimen to perpetuate the the Vulcan gene and Spock is not the one; maybe not even the guy she chooses in TOS, assuming he´s still alive.
That said, what are the chances of the nex film be an immediate sequel to the first movie, picking up closely to when the first ends?
Chances are the new movie makes a jump of a few years in the future, with the friendship of Kirk/Spock/McCoy already strongly stablished; the romance with Uhura, if ended in the interval, will not need an on-screen explanation; they would be friends, closer than in the TOS incarnation, but only friends; and so on…

220. Tina S - April 24, 2010

212 @TrekNinja. Thank you for your response, although I’m not sure about the generalization of strong. The strongest female character I’ve ever enjoyed in a movie was a woman who started as a school teacher and made all the wrong choices, becoming a soapland prostitute, a battered girlfriend, a hairdresser, a convict and more all for want of the abusive men who leave her. The conclusion to her ill-conceived choices never fails to remind me of what it takes to be strong.

The act of having independent goals doesn’t make anyone strong. It’s when you have goals and fail or make mistakes while attempting to achieve them, yet you still keep trying for them, that is what it means to be strong. Even if you don’t achieve said goals.

To be able to err is perhaps the strongest character virtue of all. It also humanizes the characters. Something I hope to see from female characters in movies, yet rarely find.

(And if at all you are interested, the movie mentioned is Memories of Matsuko.)

221. dmduncan - April 24, 2010

218: “I am somewhat torn concerning my feelings for the Uhura character. (Not about the S/U romance, I am quite clear on the fact I do not like that aspect of her character). As a woman, I want to see a strong female character shine in Trek… but I fear she will take the place of McCoy and that is troubling to me. Kirk, Spock and McCoy were very deliberately designed as characters that balanced each other – logic, emotion and the bridge between the two. It was either a brilliant move on Roddenberry’s part, or glorious serendipity…but it worked beautifully. And that dynamic has endured for over 40 years. To move Uhura into a position within the big three shifts that dynamic and threatens to unbalance what has worked so well.”

Trek Lady, perhaps you know I’ve made many of the same points myself in other threads.

It’s possible to expand Uhura’s role into something similarly symbolic without usurping McCoy’s function.

For example, her job is communications. Perhaps she can be made to serve as a facilitator of communication between McCoy and Spock where they insist on misunderstanding each other. This would then create a linkage between her and McCoy, and some opportunities for humor.

Also, this would add Uhura to a new and different triad, making her the third part of a relationship which Kirk symbolically represents the entirety of.

That is, while Spock, Uhura, and McCoy are all individual characters, Bob could add Uhura to make the triad that Kirk represents as a gestalt. Kirk is the harmony between all three, i.e., the perfect communication (Uhura) between the otherwise warring halves of Spock (logic) and McCoy (emotion). Kirk is the harmonization of what each of those characters represent individually.

Kirk also confounds Uhura. She doesn’t understand him. This also fits symbolically, since none of the three in this proposed new triad SHOULD be able to be Kirk (or understand him) by themselves.

This could lead to some interesting and humorous moments between Kirk and Uhura, who may sometimes get frustrated at her inability to figure Kirk out which, as a facilitator of communication, she must be able to do, but can’t, both because of the extraordinary and unpredictable character he is, and because she is symbolically an aspect of what Kirk represents the entirety of (as with Spock and McCoy).

As parts of the whole that he represents, none of them individually can be or fully understand him — while together in this new triad they ARE him. And that’s why he sits alone at the center of a closed circle called “the bridge.”

Kirk is the hub.

222. Pierre - April 25, 2010

#221
“..logic, emotion and the bridge between the two. It was either a brilliant move on Roddenberry’s part, or glorious serendipity..”

I think it was neither. Upon the arrival of DeForest Kelly on the screen and on the bridge, the dynamic started for Kirk to balance the logic on his left and the emotion/human on his right. Though it is a conclusion of good writing, the due must be given to DK to convey this side of the balance.

223. knowhathatmeans - April 25, 2010

UGH, NO!
It doesn’t even need to be kolinar, they should just END it however, and work on the Spock/Kirk friendship which is the most important relationship there.

NAO.

224. VeratheGun - April 25, 2010

In other news, Trekkies think girls are icky and that kissing is for sissies.

Sigh. Fellas, the S/U relationship made the other half of the human race (you know, the female half) interested in your space opera. ST09 did well because it got repeat viewings, families and couples out for an evening, to buy tickets. Women and their viewig tastes largely drove those sales.

Witness the total collapse of KickAss, aiming at a very similar demographic. Why? Because no women wanted to see it, that’s why.

S/U is done. It happened. Deal with it. If it makes you feel any better, I highly doubt they have a happy ending in sight. In fact, I am hoping for maximum fallout from it all.

Just make it good, boborci.

225. Fluff Trekkie - April 25, 2010

I’m more optimistic, #224. I don’t see why they’re can’t be a happy ending in store for our intrepid couple. Besides, I think it’s time for a Star Trek rom-com. We’ve had just about everything else haven’t we?

Mr. Orci, how about Star Trek: Meet the Parents coming to a theater near you, co-starring Samuel L. Jackson as Mr. Uhura? He could be the greatest thing since Khan.

226. Trek Lady - April 25, 2010

#221 “For example, her job is communications. Perhaps she can be made to serve as a facilitator of communication between McCoy and Spock where they insist on misunderstanding each other.”

That sounds like a great way to handle Uhura without upsetting the K/S/Mc relationship… however, judging from how stereotypically Uhura was handled in ST 2009, I fear the writers will settle for something more “cliché” and less nuanced.

#224 “In other news, Trekkies think girls are icky and that kissing is for sissies.”

That is what you have gotten out of this entire thread? Really? Reduce all the discussion to something so childish?

And, FYI, there were a lot of female fans of Trek long before the S/U aspect of Trek 2009. Not ALL women were enamored with S/U… and a lot of us have been Trek fans for years, without the romance aspect. I have been to see every Trek film multiple times with my family and friends – and I didn’t need a romance to get me in the door. I need a good plot, action/adventure and great characters boldly going and seeking out new worlds and civilizations – you know, that whole spiel at the beginning? I love character development, I just prefer the very few female characters in Sci-Fi not be reduced to the stereotypical role of “girlfriend” having THAT be their central role.

IMO Uhura’s characterization in Trek 2009 was all over the map. A lot of what defined her was just distasteful to me…”I thought you were dumb hick who only has sex with farm animals…” So classy. But she also was the one who could speak all dialects of Vulcan and Romulan – would have liked to have seen more of that.

“ST09 did well because it got repeat viewings, families and couples out for an evening, to buy tickets. Women and their viewing tastes largely drove those sales.”

I would love proof that “women” drove not all those sales… guys can make a decision to bring their family to a movie? And even if women DID drive those sales, you are suggesting that the REASON most women chose to see this film had to do with a total of about six minutes of screen time between Spock and Uhura? Nothing to do with the fun times? The edge of your seat action? The sense of adventure? The hot guys? (I happen to know for a fact, a lot of women went to see the hot guys….)

A lot of the S/U fans have admitted that they see themselves in Uhura, and really love Spock – and enjoy the romance because they can project themselves into a situation with this particularly “hot guy”. I can’t help but wonder if those who are married informed their “husbands” about this before they dragged the family to the film. ;)

I think you sell women short to suggest that “romance” is the thing that they need to get them in the theater. I think most women appreciate a good plot, and good character development (which does not HAVE to include romance.) Trek has never been just about action and chase scenes. It is about common people (us) traveling to new and exciting places – how our “humanity” adapts to new worlds and new civilizations.

At least that is what is used to be about….

227. dmduncan - April 25, 2010

222: “I think it was neither. Upon the arrival of DeForest Kelly on the screen and on the bridge, the dynamic started for Kirk to balance the logic on his left and the emotion/human on his right.”

Someone pointed out on this site a few months back that Roddenberry actually claimed in an interview that it was intentional, something I hadn’t known until then.

224: “In other news, Trekkies think girls are icky and that kissing is for sissies.”

Oh please. I’m actually a TOS fan more than a Trekkie. And I like Firefly — VERA THE GUN — a whole lot more than anything else to come out of Star Trek, and I DO include both the TOS movies and ST.09 as an extension of TOS in my likey-likey department.

“Fellas, the S/U relationship made the other half of the human race (you know, the female half) interested in your space opera.”

Consult the fair number of females opposed to S/U for an answer to this.

“S/U is done. It happened. Deal with it.”

That’s what this debate is about. Not how to ignore it, but how to deal with it.

“I highly doubt they have a happy ending in sight. In fact, I am hoping for maximum fallout from it all.”

I agree. If they’re going to end it, might as well use it to some emotional effect to make the movie that much better.

228. Buzz Cagney - April 25, 2010

225 lol Samuel Jackon as Pop Uhura lol. I like it.
Lets get the wedding on just so we can hear him ‘laying down some ground rules’ to Spock.
I’d pay to watch that. More than once I would think.

229. I am not Herbert - April 25, 2010

“…might as well use it to some emotional effect to make the movie that much better.”

What the hell, might as well, we don’t need to respect the characters anymore…

230. Polly - April 25, 2010

114. I agree! good point!

If there had to be “romance” between them, personaly I didn’t like it at all but if they had to have it they should have kept it at that.

231. dmduncan - April 25, 2010

229: “What the hell, might as well, we don’t need to respect the characters anymore…”

No idea what you mean by that. It would be a terrible idea to pretend that it never happened.

232. Mel - April 25, 2010

I hope they break up. I want that there will be a focus on the Kirk/Spock/McCoy friendship and not the stupid romance between Spock and Uhura. There is no chemistry between them and it is just a waste of time. I would rather see much more about McCoy, who didn’t get enough scenes in the last movie.

The central characters in TOS were always Kirk, Spock and McCoy. I don’t see any good reason to change it. Their friendship made TOS great, because they liked each other despite having so different personalities.

And I also would like it if Spock would behave more Vulcan again. Kissing and hugging Uhura, when other people could see them, isn’t very Vulcan.

I also prefer much more to see Uhura in her professional role, than as “the girlfriend”. Give her something useful to do. Kissing and hugging someone while on duty and the whole Federation is in danger, isn’t useful.

All in all I really hope they break up in the next movie without many scenes devoted to it. There are just so much more interesting aspects in Star Trek, which are more deserving of scenes.

233. Woodsome - April 25, 2010

Ending it correctly would take more movie time to wade through the emotional baggage and ending it abruptly would be like changing the uniforms all the sudden (Menagerie v Charlie X, anyone?) So the solution seems to be a low key relationship that does not intrude on the action.

That way fans of the relationship get their way partially (in an non Nicholas Sparks way), die-hard fans worried about the action are satisfied, there’s room to expand the trinity (and hopefully the rest of the cast because I’m tired of the big three, that’s so ’60s) and Uhura doesn’t have be shot out of an airlock to appease the haters.

234. M_E - April 25, 2010

“So the solution seems to be a low key relationship that does not intrude on the action.”

I can agree with that… :) As i see it, it´s all about how well the next story is written: they don´t need to show Spock and Uhura breaking up; at the same time they don´t need to show any romantic scene either. ST09 gave reasons to some line croossing between them; the next movie can have all characters in more professional colors, with all of the them being expanded: there were three tv seasons and six movies exploring the old Trinity; now we`ll have maybe two more movies and few chances of a new tv series; there´s simply no time to waste trying to make the new looks like exactly like the old.

235. dmduncan - April 25, 2010

Love that word “haters.” Not only is it so often inaccurately used, but it’s also like being called a fascist by a nazi.

236. Imrahil - April 25, 2010

#31: No Sex Please, we’re Amoeboid Zingatularians!

237. Elerrina - April 25, 2010

I didn’t like the S&U pairing for multiple reasons. The kissing scene on the transporter pad especially bugged me, as it just felt very OOC for *both* characters, not just Spock.
I’m by far more interested in seeing the Kirk/Spock/McCoy freindship take wing than watching Spock and Uhura spit-swapping again; and while I realize
that the damage has been done and the romance can’t just be ignored, I would like to see it toned down to *almost* non existance.

238. U.S.S. Manila NCC-99232 - April 25, 2010

Don’t try to mate! It’s illogical for you both!

239. dolldreamer - April 26, 2010

I am also against Spock-Uhura romance. Friendship of some kind – may be.
The scene where they kissed was really strange. Emotional compromised or not, but SUCH display not only of emotion but of intimacy on public – unimaginable for someone with vulkan training.
So, dear script writers, please end this illogical relationship somehow.

240. TheProblematique - April 26, 2010

As a woman who loved the ST:09 movie *inspite* of the contrived S/U romance, I’d just like to say that painting the picture of “Women only go to see ST movies for the luuuurve” is both ridiculous, kind of sad, and frankly insulting.
That said, I am all for ending this relationship because, while if I really put my mind to it I can understand where the writers were going (and yes, maybe if Spock was so emotionally compromised) I feel that it is detrimental to both characters. Uhura needs to kick ass (not literally) as a strong female lead which she can pull off perfectly, I’m sure, and Spock needs to become a bit more Vulcan. The first movie had a TON of stuff to cover and obviously time isn’t endless, but Uhura fell too easily into “The Girl” role, and what I liked about Nichelle’s character was just how she was an integral part of the TOS crew without needing to be a romantic interest.

The relationship we can’t wait to see explored in the next movie would be that “epic friendship” we had so many lovely allusions to in the first movie, but never actually got to witness, between Kirk and Spock. I for one am eagerly anticipating what Pine and Quinto do with the characters, as well as Urban, whose excellent McCoy will hopefully get more screentime!

PS. Very glad to note that the majority of us are against this S/U relationship. Also, I completely and utterly FAIL at understanding what “hints” of anything between those two characters people saw in TOS.

241. M_E - April 26, 2010

“PS. Very glad to note that the majority of us are against this S/U relationship.”

Actually, 57% of us approve it, while 43% don´t. ;-)

242. Patrice - April 26, 2010

I love S/U. He is my ultimae *crush*. The romance was a nice surprise. Finally Spock gets a girl worth mentioning and one who is not easily forgettable. I love the reboot.

243. Mel - April 26, 2010

@ 241

Things like this

http://community.livejournal.com/spock_uhura/801680.html

probably help to bring MUCH MORE Spock/Uhura shippers to this site than usual. So I am quite sure that the poll result is skewed.

244. FarStrider - April 26, 2010

One, you act as if the S/U Livejournal community aren’t Star Trek Fans. . . obviously they are, and since this is an open forum, they have as much right to vote here as you do. . . Two, you are acting like this board is the end-all and be-all of Star Trek. . . it isn’t. . . and if you go to other Trek communities, you will find that polls are skewing about the same. . . plus there are the large silent majority of people who liked Star Trek 2009, but aren’t going to go on the internet and participate in debates like this. . . so really, these numbers don’t mean a thing. . . there are some vocal people who didn’t like this plot twist. . . there are some vocal people who absolutely hated the movie. . . I really don’t think that the writers are going to change their plans for the story and characters just to please them. . .

~FS

245. Fluff Trekkie - April 26, 2010

I love it how the haters are being WILLFULLY blind as to the S/U dynamic in the movie. There’s is no sexism going on here.

She doesn’t get the Enterprise because of Spock, and because she’s the hero’s girlfriend. She gets the Enterprise because she DESERVES to be there, just like the original Uhura did. The movie makes it plain that she’s one of the smartest cookies around and was assigned to the Enterprise because she earned it. In fact, it’s only because of their relationship that Spock tries to get her assigned to another ship.

Ultimately, the only difference in this reality is that she gets both the man AND the ship.

246. ster julie - April 26, 2010

The Spock/Uhura scenes in the movie were a shock. They were more overt than what we saw in 1st season TOS. But…

Spock would be excluded from any mating program to “repopulate the species” bc of his qomi genes, so, he’d be free to marry any non-Vulcan he chooses.

247. dmduncan - April 26, 2010

@241: Voting for a little S/U is not a ringing endorsement. I’m against it, but I don’t want to see it ignored in the sequel either. I want to see it, but see it wrapped up. That is “a little S/U.” The majority of those who clearly want it vs. those who clearly do not want it is solidly with the latter.

I once voted for a little S/U in an earlier poll but I’ll never sit on the fence that way again because some people will count even those votes as being strongly PRO S/U, when that is not the case at all.

Put this to a straight up or down vote without the mouse hole options and see what happens.

248. Fluff Trekkie - April 26, 2010

#247, there are actually a lot of pro S/U shippers who don’t think the movie should spend much time on S/U at all. As much as I’ve joked about turning Star Trek into a romance flick, I – and many – feel that Star Trek XII should not be that kind of movie. Star Trek should be action/adventure first and foremost, hopefully with a little bit of brains and philosophy mixed in. You have two hours to tell a storyline. You have at least seven major characters who need development along with a new villain. I’d also be surprised if they didn’t give Kirk a love interest this time, seeing as how he’s supposed to be the playboy. So, in all of that, there’s supposed to be a major S/U subplot? I don’t know if it’s even feasible.

249. RM10019 - April 26, 2010

BobOrci, can i suggest using the unique relationship for dramatic gain. The best Trek (as you know, because you already wrote one of the better Treks) is character based first and how they solve problems together. We’ve rarely seen Spock in this dynamic and it could be good fodder for new, memorable stuff.

I hope you are enjoying the process of shaping this new Trek as much as you did ther first!

250. Michael Hall - April 26, 2010

“Sigh. Fellas, the S/U relationship made the other half of the human race (you know, the female half) interested in your space opera. ST09 did well because it got repeat viewings, families and couples out for an evening, to buy tickets. Women and their viewig tastes largely drove those sales.”

Well, no. I’ve been around this block for awhile, and having attended conventions as early as the original Equicon in 1974 I can assure you young ‘uns that, if anything, a slight majority of those early Trek fans were women. That they were able to look beyond TOS’ often pretty blatant sexism (it being a product of its times, after all) to groove to its ideas and ideals was much to their credit–and they didn’t need what what’s at base a thoroughly conventional love triangle imposed on that ‘space opera’ to seal the deal.

251. Mel - April 26, 2010

@ 244.

Of course they are Star Trek fans. But if you make for example a poll about what is the best car model, a Mercedes, BMW or VW, and a VW fan club makes such a poll public on their fan site, then it is quite possible, that VW would get more votes than usual.

Internet polls are often not representative. And IT IS kind of strange that the “More Spock/Uhura” option seems growing over time. Now it has 20 %. At the time it was made public on the S/U livejournal site, it only has 13 %. So I guess the advertising there helped.

252. Mel - April 26, 2010

@ 250

I agree. It is really annoying when some female S/U fans assume the right to speak for ALL women. I am also a woman and they are definitely not speaking for me! I was a Star Trek fan long before the new movie and I am hoping they end the relationship between Spock and Uhura so they can devote more time to other more interesting things. I think for example that the banters between Spock and McCoy are much more entertaining.

253. FarStrider - April 26, 2010

@250 I may not be as old as you are, but let’s just say that I saw TMP in theaters. . . The “love triangle” in TOS was Kirk/Spock/McCoy. . . if ‘zines of the times are to be believed, a lot of the early women Trek fans either thought Kirk and Spock were boinking (hence the rise of K/S stories, or slash for short), or inserted themselves into fanfiction as Ensign MarySue who made everyone fall in love with her without trying and saved the Enterprise on the side (hence, the rise of the term Mary Sue) . . .there is NO love triangle in ST2009. . . Uhura did not want Kirk. . . if anything, the new movie expands the triangle into a more stable square. . . and again, ST2009 IS NOT TOS. . . it is an alternate reality. . . the characters meet when they are younger, their situation is not the same, different things have happened to them. . . why do you think that things should play out the same way as the 1960s TV show? The writers have a whole new universe to play in. . .

@251 & 252: it’s the internet. . . all sides are equally free to game the poll if they want to. . . and since you DO consider the S/U people fans, don’t you think their voices deserve to be heard too?. . . btw, that livejournal entry was made pretty much at the time this article went up. . . according to its profile, that community also nearly 2000 members. . . but it doesn’t seem they overwhelmed the poll, here, though. . . so, maybe advertising there didn’t help that much. . .

There have been S/U shippers from the beginning of Star Trek. . . there are men S/U shippers. . . Star Trek novelist Greg Cox ships them pretty hard. . . there can be good stories that actually touch on romance. . . it doesn’t have to be the centerpiece. . . and personally, I thought a lot of Spock McCoy banter verged on racist (speciest). . . so losing it is no skin off my nose. . .

~FS

254. Trek Lady - April 26, 2010

#247 “I once voted for a little S/U in an earlier poll but I’ll never sit on the fence that way again because some people will count even those votes as being strongly PRO S/U, when that is not the case at all.”

I did the same thing, and like you, I will never do so again, for exactly this reason. Not to mention that I have been turned off to the whole idea by the backlash I have seen against those who did not embrace this ship. (Odd how the word HATERS is thrown as anti-S/U folks, yet, at the worst they “hate” a fictional relationship between two fictional characters, but the nasty comments coming from some S/U shippers towards those who disagree are targeted at ACTUAL people and their views.)

#247 Put this to a straight up or down vote without the mouse hole options and see what happens.

Yes, isn’t it interesting that three out of the four options could be interpreted as Pro-Spock/Uhura? I find that strange. Why not something more balanced?

#244 You make a good point about internet polls, which is why I hope the powers that be don’t take these things too seriously.

#253 “There have been S/U shippers from the beginning of Star Trek. . .”

I have no doubt there have been some S/U shippers out there since the beginning – but their numbers were very small before Trek 2009. I certainly never met any prior to 2009, and I have been in TOS fandom for many years. I can only recall two S/U stories out of hundreds. I know there have been a few S/U fanfic writers that preceded XI, but again, a very small percentage of Trek fanfic writers would be considered S/U shippers prior to the reboot. This does not make the S/U fans any less legitimate as fans, but it would be disingenuous to suggest that there was some significant contingent of S/U fans out there prior to Trek 2009. And that is okay! New fans are important! But I hope they also find more to love in Trek that just S/U.

“…personally, I thought a lot of Spock McCoy banter verged on racist (speciest). ”

It probably did – but there was a method to McCoy’s madness. It was his way of trying to get under Spock’s skin to admit to his “feelings”. Maybe this new Spock won’t need that – seeing as he is already on a more emotional path – but surely their “banter” could take a different form?

“…there is NO love triangle in ST2009. . ”

And yet, the writers talk about the “love triangle” between Kirk and Uhura and Spock… (shudder)

Thank GOODNESS that did not come across too strongly, because what a cliché! Ugh! At least the Kirk/Spock/McCoy triangle was not a “conventional” type triangle, but more of a Triad of character archetypes.

I fear the writers MAY try to go the Kirk and Spock vie for Uhura’s affections route… disaster!

Now, Uhura and Kirk vieing for Spock’s interest…THAT might be fun! LOL! (And no, it would not need to be “romantic” interest…

255. dmduncan - April 26, 2010

I think some flirtatiousness between Kirk and Uhura would work, but the romance ultimately wouldn’t. I would, however, like to see Kirk earn her admiration. Kirk isn’t there yet. He still has something to prove, and I want to see his growth in the next movie, I don’t want the next movie to just pick up where he’s already changed. I want to see the evolution, forced by the circumstances of the next story.

256. Trek Lady - April 26, 2010

#245 ” …love it how the haters are being WILLFULLY blind as to the S/U dynamic in the movie. There’s is no sexism going on here. ….She doesn’t get the Enterprise because of Spock, and because she’s the hero’s girlfriend. She gets the Enterprise because she DESERVES to be there, just like the original Uhura did. …”

Actually, the “haters” (as you insist on labeling anyone who doesn’t agree with you) do not tend to argue that Uhura got the Enterprise because she is the hero’s girlfriend. Quite the opposite. They argue that the “romantic” relationship was detrimental to Uhura because she was almost DENIED a position on the Enterprise (where she deserved to be) BECAUSE of her relationship with Spock!

Maybe you should read the arguements of those who do not favor S/U a bit more carefully, since, in this case, they actually support your POV concerning Uhura’s abilities.

257. Hateya - April 26, 2010

Let’s see.

Nichelle Nichols and Leonard Nimoy love this ship – CHECK

Zoe Saldana and Zachary Quinto love this ship – CHECK

Millions of “new” Star Trek fans and flexible TOS fans and I love this ship – CHECK!

Bring on the Pon Farr, Boborci and company! With the planet gone, the Vulcans should be completely out of sync!!!

Although many have argued to the contrary, it isn’t strange that Spock fell for a human woman. His father did. Furthermore, Spock’s conflict is no different from any bi-racial child who is born and raised in his/her father’s dominant country. Spock left Vulcan and went to Earth to forge his own path. That path included the lovely Nyota Uhura.

So now that we’ve settled this romance, please make more of an effort to give Nyota Uhura a proper background. Please investigate this one word, CHIK!

If you’re unfamiliar with this term, stay tuned. At least one pro Uhura/Spock fan writer is creating a proper East African background for this lovely character. Among other things, you’ll discovery that they aren’t all that different from Vulcans; therefore, a relationship between Uhura/Spock isn’t all that odd and Zoe Saldana did *not* misrepresent Uhura!

258. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - April 26, 2010

Jeez, miss one Friday story here, caoch a little tee league, and before you now it, there is a 300 post thread on the new movie. Newman!

I posted these before, but I keep missing boborci.

1. KIRK is the ladies’ man, not Spock.
2. Spock is the smartest guy in any room, but Kirk is nearly as smart, in aan intuitive, human way.
3. McCoy has “seen it all”, and is the most worldy of the crew.

Very important point coming…

4. Uhura, Sulu, and Chekov are (unfortunately) window dressing, and we only have two hours of film time. Secondary characters. If this we series TV, we would have more time to devote to them. We don’t.

End of Very Important Point
4. Scotty is a notch above those three, and is NOT only simple comic relief. He is smart and tough, but witty.
5. The Enterprise is a character. She strains and struggles sometimes, because she is pushed by Kirk, protected and cared for by Scotty.
6. Kirk is stern. Do not confuse latter day Shatner comedic leanings with the Kirk character. He was not a cut-up in TOS. He made light hearted banter with his senior officer staff, but he is a stern, decisive leader.
There you go.

259. dmduncan - April 26, 2010

@258: I think #2 should read:

Spock has the most encyclopedic knowledge of any guy in the room, while Kirk is a starship command genius with a natural flair for the Machiavellian (which Spock can never duplicate), and that he can use to turn the fortune for his crew, his ship, his Federation.

260. Boborci - April 26, 2010

258

Noted your opinion in other thread! Thanks.

261. Rana - April 27, 2010

Maybe they should have Spock and nurse Chapel falling in love and a breakup of Uhura that would fit well as in the TOS Spock and nurse Chapel are show attracted to each other. Is that correct?

262. M_E - April 27, 2010

“1. KIRK is the ladies’ man, not Spock.”

New Spock is a “one” lady man, something Kirk will never be… not that is a bad thing… :) :) :) :) :)

263. FarStrider - April 27, 2010

@261 No. That is not correct. . . Chape; was on a bad rebound and decided she was in love with Spock, but he really didn’t want anything to do with her. . . And even if Chapel and Spock *were* an item in TOS (and they *weren’t*) this IS NOT TOS. . . why do things the same way?

~FS

264. Hateya - April 27, 2010

Boborci, Alex, JJ and co.

Since there’s nowhere else to write about this on this site, I’m expressing myself here.

I’ve come to realize that if it came down to the choice of having a Uhura/Spock relationship and the fleshing out of Nyota Uhura, I’d take the fleshing any day.

No wonder poor Zoe is out of sorts. Every conversation is actually about Spock, his wants and his needs and her character’s just thrown in there.

Will you guys consider giving Nyota Uhura a viable background even if it’s just mentioned here and there within the movie? I’m not foolish enough to expect a whole sequence about her.

However, saying a person from Africa is not the same as saying a person is from down the street. It’s a huge continent and each country comes complete with a belief system that one could argue is both necessary and outdated. Now this is REAL conflict.

I tried to find CHIK online and I found it extraordinarily difficult to do using English search engines. It can be done, but it’s tough.

The only reason the writer I mentioned in #257 is dabbling into fan fiction is because she feels so indebted to Nichelle Nichols and guys… time isn’t on our side. With Kelley and Doohan lost to us forever and Mr. Nimoy retiring from acting, it’s just sort of struck home.

It took 40 years for Uhura to gain Nyota as a “canon” first name. That’s longer than I’ve been alive.

Zoe’s Uhura brought Nichelle’s Uhura’s work into the foreground. The only other things we know about her is that she’s HOT, didn’t want Kirk and Spock kissed her.

For whatever reason, everyone assumes this Uhura/Spock relationship is based solely on Spock’s wants and needs. What about hers? Isn’t it equally logical that she’d have reasons to not wish to mate with *him* permanently? Maybe being with him will cost *her* something?

265. Chris Fawkes - April 27, 2010

Vulcan’s only mate every seven years? Are they british?

266. Gene L. Coon was U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - April 27, 2010

“260. Boborci – April 26, 2010
258

Noted your opinion in other thread! Thanks.”

You are a gentleman. Sorry for the multiple “look at me” posts.

267. MSN1701 - April 27, 2010

I can force myself to stomach spock/uhura, but if they go into pon farr, I am walking out of the theater and so are my friends. That’s just NOT what trek is about and this girl will not be pleased if that’s the direction the sequel takes.

Whatever happened to friendship and exploration and occasionally fighting the Klingons?!

268. Damian - April 27, 2010

I was not overly bothered by the Spock-Uhura love thing. The only two things I would NOT want to see in a sequel:
(1) Spock and Uhura become the story, instead of a side plot
(2) That it interferes with the Kirk-Spock-McCoy friendship. That is key to any Star Trek universe.

As long as it is a background element and does not become THE movie, it’s just not that big a deal to me. Star Trek (2009) did a good job a shocking you with it without choking you with it.

269. Mousling1014 - April 27, 2010

#256 – Trek Lady – I actually agree with you on many points. In my original posting here I stated that I dislike the bashing that seems to follow this particular ‘ship, whether you are for S/U or not, we don’t need to degenerate to kindergarten status or name calling whatever side of this particular fence you sit on, or personally attacking the actors or the actresses, which is completely uncalled for. I do understand your fear that bringing Uhura into the mix may take away from Kirk/Spock/McCoy. I’m not sure that that will happen, let me explain my reasoning: Kirk and McCoy are already established in this A/U as friends, it’s obvious, there’s real affection and a solid friendship that’s shown. The meld between Spock Prime and Kirk brings knowledge of the friendship between Kirk and Spock, knowledge that our A/U Kirk can use. Just watching Kirk take over the Enterprise you know it really hurt him in how he had to do it, you can see the angst and regret onscreen. The talk between A/U Spock and Spock Prime brings that idea of friendship between Kirk and Spock to A/U Spock. Let’s face it, this poor man needs as many people in his corner as he can get. Now in the next movie, the start of their friendship together can be expanded upon. Why I don’t think that Uhura wil upset the applecart is simply this; watching TOS, Kirk is a really strong character who would not find his friendship with either McCoy or Spock threatened by there being a romantic relationship involved for any of them, that friendship is too engrained and they have always struck me as brothers-in-arms, that foundation is strong and any other relationship around it won’t affect that core and maybe can even enhance it (again as I’ve stated before – if it’s written well it could work); A/U Kirk will eventually get to that point, I tend to see A/U Kirk as looking at his crew as his family since his background is vastly different to TOS Kirk and relationships within this ‘family’ would be very important to Kirk because of that background. Now I’m like you I voted for a little S/U, I don’t want a movie that is “The Notebook” I do want an action movie, but I’m not going to lie and say that this ‘ship bothers me, it doesn’t, I’m ok with it. Like you, being a woman, I would like to see Uhura fleshed out more, I’d also like to have the relationship sit in the background, alluded to a couple of times, but not taking away from the overall picture, again as I’ve stated, a little really does go a long way. So that’s my hope for the next movie. I deal with death everyday in my RL so I guess I’m a little selfish in wanting a snippet of romance to balance out the action, but nothing big, afterall this is Star Trek. And I will admit that if it could be just a tad more ensemble than TOS I would be ok with that too because it balances out the characters and I think gives more insight into all of them, that’s what I liked about TNG. But I understand about movie time constraints, in the end it’s just bloody awful that you have 7 wonderful main characters and not enough time for everyone to shine :-) Ahh well, such is life.

270. dmduncan - April 27, 2010

In TOS Spock mostly learns what it is to be human from years of serving as Captain Kirk’s first officer, and being his friend.

I think Spock’s relationship with Uhura would supplant some of the function of Kirk in the Kirk-Spock relationship. That makes it redundant. You now have two characters doing the same thing, performing the same function to Spock, i.e., teaching him the complexities of humanity — which is some of the basis for the friendship between Kirk and Spock.

(Yes, in the real world that happens, but in the art of telling movie stories this is repetitious).

Giving that role to Uhura weakens the dynamic between Kirk and Spock.

I think you should give Uhura an expanded role, but expand it in a symbolic way as I suggested earlier (in # 221) so that she isn’t duplicating Kirk’s role relative to Spock, and she has a genuine symbolic role to play, one that TOS actually missed out on.

271. M_E - April 27, 2010

“And even if Chapel and Spock *were* an item in TOS (and they *weren’t*) this IS NOT TOS. . . why do things the same way?”

Not to mention we´d just be replacing one woman for another as I wouldn´t expect the new Chapel to be “background decoration”, so to speak; hell, the writters might think it would be funny to have Uhura and Chapel catfighting over Spock!

“Whatever happened to friendship and exploration and occasionally fighting the Klingons?!”

In short, overdone in the past 40+ years… ;)

“(1) Spock and Uhura become the story, instead of a side plot
(2) That it interferes with the Kirk-Spock-McCoy friendship. That is key to any Star Trek universe. ”

As a (3) I´d say Checov acting like a worsened version of Wesley Crusher… ;)

BTW, didn´t he get the bridge twice in the film? In the whole TOS era I only remember him getting the chair in STV… :)

272. Trek Lady - April 27, 2010

#269

Mousling,

Just popped in to say I appreciate the way you addressed your post to me. We may not agree on all things, but you stated your views in a respectful, thoughtful, mature manner. That is how discussions should proceed, even when parties do not necessarily agree on all issues. Thank you.

This has been an interesting discussion all…. and for the most part has been conducted with a certain decorum I have found lacking elsewhere. Refreshing.

273. Lieutenant - April 27, 2010

#261, Nurse Chapel was in love with Spock, but he was indifferent.

Treklady, the majority of people (in the poll and elsewhere)are in favor of S/U (to varying degrees).

The main complaints seem to be that:
A) S/U will take away from K/S/M. This is bs (K/S/M haven’t been established yet. And, as much as I like S/K/M, I was always bothered by the fact that every single episode of TOS was centered around them, and at the expense of the other characters, like Lt. Uhura, for example.

I am not saying they should remove the Trinity from the center of the Star Trek, but they don’t have to dote over them all the time.

B) Ppl think the ‘relationship’ was too overt/ in your face or OOC.

Neither of those make sense. The relationship was in the movie for 6 minutes maximum. That hardly puts it at the center of the movie. They had two kissing scenes. There was no big, sex scene (which I am NOT in favor of). The relationship can stay in the background and remain subtle like the movie.

I swear some of these *extreme* Trekkers sound like 10-yr-old boys who say things like: “Ewww, she’s a girl. You kissed a girl. Girls have cooties.”

Also, Spock is younger and has much anger/confusion he hasn’t resolved…yet. You know, Leonard Nimoy actually said he welcomed the episodes when Spock had to show emotions and those were often his favorites.

Grow up.

274. Hateya - April 27, 2010

“and at the expense of the other characters, like Lt. Uhura, for example.”

@Lieutenant!

Here here. A few tiny episodes for the minor characters would not have hurt that franchise.

“S/U will take away from K/S/M. This is bs (K/S/M haven’t been established yet. ”

Like you, it amazes me how often UHURA is blamed for this when it is actually the differences between TOS Kirk and NuKirk that forces the change in the Trinity dynamic.

When I saw the movie, I saw two protagonists, not one and each came with is own “supporter.” McCoy served to try to keep Kirk on track and Uhura was Spock’s emotional canvas (just like ZQ) said.

So what’s the threat? Even if they reestablish the trinity, Uhura and Spock’s relationship won’t threaten it. Spock will still provide Kirk with clarity and logic and McCoy will still provide Kirk with overt emotionalism. In case people didn’t notice, Nyota controlled *her* emotions as well as Spock did if not better and this is a direct reflection of HER African heritage. Zoe rocks! No wonder she gets Nichelle Nichols’ seal of approval!!

I guess if they’d allowed McCoy to kiss Kirk twice, then all would be well in the universe.

I am still stunned that 6 minutes of movie Uhura/Spock togetherness has completely erased the fact that we would should be horrified by the deaths of 6 BILLION Vulcans, founding members of the Federation, Earth’s first interstellar ally. It’s been erased that Nero’s wife and child and Amanda were all sacrificed because apparently men can’t get from point A to point B unless someone kills a woman they love.

It’s all so “shocking.” Throw in an interracial/interspecies couple and people will forget all about whatever problems they might have had with the REST of the movie. It works out great because only Zoe Saldana and Uhura are blamed for everything negative.

What’s up with the poll stating “End it – Uhura love is illogical.” It should have stated, “End it – Spock falling in love is illogical.”

275. dmduncan - April 27, 2010

274: “only Zoe Saldana and Uhura are blamed for everything negative.”

Forget about “everything negative,” who is blaming Zoe Saldana or Uhura for ANYthing negative? Saldana is an actress playing a role and Uhura is a fictional character. Blaming Saldana for acting the part written or a fictional character would accomplish what?

Seems to me we are debating how Bob should treat the future of S/U in the next movie, and not blaming Zoe Saldana or Lt. Uhura for anything.

273: “I swear some of these *extreme* Trekkers sound like 10-yr-old boys who say things like: ‘Ewww, she’s a girl. You kissed a girl. Girls have cooties.’”

Maybe you should follow Trek Lady’s example of grace towards those whose opinion differs. Otherwise, someone might return the barbs by saying something like: “And you sound like a middle aged housewife to whom cinematic romance counts for way more than it should.”

Or:

“If you can’t lose an argument with some dignity, maybe it’s time for a hobby that doesn’t involve the prefrontal cortex.”

I mean, it’s one thing to return an insult, and something else to initiate an insult against someone simply because you don’t like their opinion.

To quote yourself:

“Grow up.”

276. Hateya - April 27, 2010

@Mousling 1014

“Like you, being a woman, I would like to see Uhura fleshed out more, I’d also like to have the relationship sit in the background, alluded to a couple of times, but not taking away from the overall picture, again as I’ve stated, a little really does go a long way.”

Yes… this!

I can’t speak for all of the Uhura/Spock fans, but given that I spend a great deal of time with them, I believe that most of them/us/me want the exact same thing. A majority of the U/S fans are ALSO Star Trek fans. From what I can gather, they want the relationship intact and in the background in much the same way it was done in the 2009 movie.

Fan fiction automatically takes care of the rest.

The only way I’d like to see it in the forefront is if and only if there was an incident that directly related to the main plot, which should *not* be their relationship.

For example, given that Vulcan the planet is gone, Spock and the Vulcans might go into unnatural Pon Farr cycles and something unexpected happens… (writers fill in the blanks) or if like in a particularly great piece of fan fiction, the Vulcan Council institutes a breeding program and Spock’s rights as a hybrid are explored. Or if something happens to Spock and Uhura takes the Zoey Andata role and decides to do *whatever* it takes to save him regardless of the cost to her or better yet VICE-VERSA. That’s the only way I think many of us would like the relationship to be shown overtly.

All in all, if Nyota Uhura is fleshed out and she and Spock graze fingers once or twice, raise their eyebrows simultaneously, speak a particular dialect of Vulcan that isn’t in the Universal Translator, stand side by side against a common foe… proving she’s an amazing officer, friend and lover, I’d be tickled pink (which would be a feat).

Bob and Alex started out well. Let’s keep the good times rolling.

You know what would be a great change. A particularly nasty *female* Villain, one who isn’t mothering a hive or is a jilted fiance!

277. Lieutenant - April 27, 2010

“Maybe you should follow Trek Lady’s example of grace towards those whose opinion differs.”

Please don’t make me laugh. Arguing with an extremist (Trekker, in this case) is like trying to remove all the water from the ocean with buckets. Not something I care for.

“And you sound like a middle aged housewife to whom cinematic romance counts for way more than it should.”

Except this makes no damn sense whatsoever. Maybe you should answer why 6 minutes of film is pissing off the extremists so much? It’s 6 minutes. The movie lasts for 2 hrs. Where’s the ‘Spock/Uhura at the center’ that people are complaining about? If they can’t stand 2 adults kissing for a few seconds, then they should grow up. They’re behaving as if the characters were involved in some full-blown sex scene or something. They weren’t.

And that RyanHuyen? fella is disrespectful. Suggesting that Zoe should be fired for asking for screen time and that she should know her place.

Zoe isn’t asking for screen time. She’s commenting on Uhura’s relationship with Spock and where she thinks/hopes it might go in the next films.

And, a poll isn’t gonna determine how Bob/JJ treat Trek. They already made the daring decision to go there, and I don’t think they’ll back down now. So, having extreme Trekkers bitching about how they hate S/U isn’t going to make a difference.

Newsflash–you’re at a lost.

And while I said ‘grow up,’ maybe I should also add: “get over it!”

278. Mel - April 27, 2010

@ 277

You are funny! Do you even realize that you are an “extremist” Trekker yourself? People who aren’t big Star Trek fans don’t visit this site and bother to comment.

279. Hateya - April 28, 2010

@ 277 Lieutenant.

LOVE!

“And, a poll isn’t gonna determine how Bob/JJ treat Trek. They already made the daring decision to go there, and I don’t think they’ll back down now.”

The worst of it is over, right? Spock kissed a girl, a black girl at that and the universe still exists. It was a scary step, but it was ultimately the one that brought them millions of *new* FANS. They accomplished what Gene Roddenberry wasn’t allowed to do in the 60s and what many modern day writers, producers and directors have consistently failed to do.

Gene-the-man laid the foundation and these guys finally made his dream come true over 40 years later. They took a gamble and they won BIG!!! – Infinite diversity in infinite combination.

Bob, Alex and JJ have heard it all before. There isn’t any new criticism left to throw at them in regards to this particular subject.

6 more minutes! 6 more minutes! 6 more minutes!

280. Trek Lady - April 28, 2010

#227 “Please don’t make me laugh. Arguing with an extremist (Trekker, in this case) is like trying to remove all the water from the ocean with buckets. Not something I care for.”

Oh dear….

LOL! You think *I* am an extremist on this matter? You really need to get out more.

281. dmduncan - April 28, 2010

Sorry, my opening comment was for Lieutenant @ 277, not Hateya.

282. dmduncan - April 28, 2010

277: “Except this makes no damn sense whatsoever. Maybe you should answer why 6 minutes of film is pissing off the extremists so much? It’s 6 minutes.”

It isn’t pissing ME off. I can’t answer for anyone else. I’ve given lots of reasons in other threads why S/U shouldn’t continue, none of which involve me being pissed off.

279: “The worst of it is over, right? Spock kissed a girl, a black girl at that and the universe still exists”

What is that supposed to mean?

If we oppose S/U we do so out of racism, because we have problems with Spock kissing a BLACK girl? Is that what you are suggesting, Hateya?

What other foul and baseless insults are left to throw?

If it is worth it to you to say anything to persuade Bob to put “six more minutes” of S/U in the sequel, you should probably take some time off from being a fan to understand why you are willing to sink so low for what amounts to so little.

283. Hateya - April 28, 2010

Some people are concerned that Uhura would compromise Spock’s “Vulcan-ness.” What exactly does that mean? Seriously. I’m not even attempting to be confrontational here.

If Uhura had a proper background, one that is nearly as rigid and nearly as emotionally-controlled as a Vulcan’s, with the concept of “personhood” (see various countries in southern Africa) thrown in, being with her would only be an asset because she wouldn’t impede his struggles to be Vulcan, whatever that actually is, despite the fact that she is human.

It seems to me that on *one* level being Vulcan is like being Taoist or Buddhist. “Enlightenment” regardless of the faith/belief system is usually a life-long struggle.

Think about what happened when Spock stood before the Vulcan council. The minister insulted his mother. What’s should a good hybrid have done? One, he could ignore it like a reasonable Vulcan and take his rightful place at the Vulcan Science Academy or two, he could act like a typically immature brat and tell them to *$”&# off.

He chose the latter and that’s more of a testament to this immaturity than his humanity. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have done the same thing. No… scratch that. I would have physically smacked the minister down because my Mama is *my* Mama.

On the opposite end of the scale, I can’t help but think that Nyota Uhura would be sitting pretty at the Vulcan Science Academy. She’s thick-skinned!

Having Spock with Uhura doesn’t resolve his conflict, it opens the door to even MORE conflict and putting him in a situation where he’d need to make even more critical decisions. “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.” Hmmm???

284. Leo - April 29, 2010

NO Spock/Uhura! Anything but this! They are not themselves, when they together. STOP this madness!

285. Hermioni - April 29, 2010

#221. dmduncan – April 24, 2010
“…while Spock, Uhura, and McCoy are all individual characters, Bob could add Uhura to make the triad that Kirk represents as a gestalt. Kirk is the harmony between all three, i.e., the perfect communication (Uhura) between the otherwise warring halves of Spock (logic) and McCoy (emotion). Kirk is the harmonization of what each of those characters represent individually. …”

#253. FarStrider – April 26, 2010
“… . . . and again, ST2009 IS NOT TOS. . . it is an alternate reality. . . the characters meet when they are younger, their situation is not the same, different things have happened to them. . . why do you think that things should play out the same way as the 1960s TV show? The writers have a whole new universe to play in. . .”

264. Hateya – April 27, 2010
“…I’ve come to realize that if it came down to the choice of having a Uhura/Spock relationship and the fleshing out of Nyota Uhura, I’d take the fleshing any day. …”

From my personal point of view, all three of the above mentioned approaches to character building could add very interesting narrative facets both to the nascent branch of the Alternate Verse and to the larger Star Trek mega-narrative as well.

In my opinion, none of these concepts seem mutually exclusive. On the contrary, I would argue that combined they do indeed represent a reflection and continuation of the varied, co-existing and continuously evolving, narrative functions of our Prime Verse troika of protagonists.

Furthermore, I do regard this multiple purpose use of characters as plot-carrying archetypes, (pop-cultural) signifiers of philosophical concepts and constructs of individually defined, growing, maturing and aging “persons” as a particularly appealing feature of the larger Star Trek Story World. Therefore, I would certainly feel intrigued by a further expansion of this relatively complex narrative approach which includes all of the New Verse incarnations of our secondary protagonists.

Similarly, I do not really find myself opposed to an Alternate Verse iteration of all of the main characters that differs markedly from the the Prime Verse one, due to the numerous changes of story world parameters in the new narrative. As I see it, this particular narrational choice creates an opening to introduce the thematic concept of nature´s vs. nurture´s impact on behavior (possibly even further complicated by the idea of “destiny”) as a comprehensive, additional background layer of meaning to both, the TOS and the Abrahamsverse branches of Star Trek.

From my point of view, such an explicit intertextual link between these two parts of the larger story world could increase, rather than diminish the narrational value of each portion of the Star Trek Verse. For me personally, this narrative approach would also represent one more step in the transformation of the Star Trek brand from a pop-cultural TV/movie/literary franchise formed by various tie-in branches to an example of a truly intertextual, transmedia storytelling property.

286. TrekNinja - April 29, 2010

I’m seeing a lot of worry that Uhura is replacing Kirk in the TOS dynamic but who’s to say Kirk and Spock will even be friends in the next film? It’s not written in stone that it HAS to be that way, just like it’s not written in stone S/U HAS to be.

In fact, them constantly butting heads, especially now that the illogical Kirk is in charge, and begrudgingly working their way to a common place seems like the direction the film was going at the end. In addition to not wanting Twilight Trek, I’m not up for a Trek Buddy Cop thing either. Uhura being the translator of sorts for a bewildered Spock wouldn’t be *out of bounds* then. A new, different relationship scheme would arise and hopefully everyone gets a moment to shine, not just the big three.

287. dmduncan - April 29, 2010

BOB: Just thought of an interesting consequence of how you wrote ST.09.

Because Spock Prime mind melded with Kirk while he (Spock) was “emotionally compromised,” Kirk learned right away that Vulcans do feel.

It’s not a subject of Speculation for Kirk Pine. He knows. Furthermore, young Spock doesn’t KNOW that he knows. Kirk knows something important about Spock that Spock doesn’t know that he knows. So how does that knowledge change Kirk’s behavior toward Spock? Does he become more cautious toward Spock in his behavior, alert that emotions may compromise him again?

Interesting scenario there.

288. Robert A. - April 29, 2010

its funny how this movie forever changed the ST Universe as i knew it.
I read the paper bound books to keep my imagination alive but now all that has changed in my head. I think the romance will be interesting. This movie brought in a fresh young crowd and my middle aged self got a fresh injection of brand newness to the ST stories. Keep the romance going and as I continue to watch the show/movies I will forever will be a Star Trek fan.

289. Hateya - April 29, 2010

@285 Hermioni – “As I see it, this particular narrational choice creates an opening to introduce the thematic concept of nature´s vs. nurture´s impact on behavior (possibly even further complicated by the idea of “destiny”) as a comprehensive, additional background layer of meaning to both, the TOS and the Abrahamsverse branches of Star Trek.”

When I think of the extraordinary changes that resulted from the demise of the USS Kelvin and George Kirk, it’s overwhelming. That one incident gave the writers the freedom to imagine a completely different, yet remarkably familiar lives for our favorite characters.

From what those who understand Trek better than I have told me, Spock rejected the Vulcan Science Academy and left home around the same age in the Prime Universe, yet he had a DRASTICALLY different experience in the Academy and this gave him options that were unavailable in the Prime Universe.

Over the three years, Kirk didn’t change much from the guy we saw in the bar fight in Iowa, yet Spock underwent an emotional metamorphosis that allowed him to be a part of an intimate relationship (with or without sex) with a human female and he learned how to take cheap shots at a human’s emotional core like bringing up George Kirk during Jim’s hearing.

All of this makes Spock a far more exciting character to me and this is coming from a girl who fell in love with Leonard Nimoy and his Spock in the cradle. I’m always going to favor him, but I can’t help feeling cheated…

When we met the Prime characters, their paths were already established. I feel privileged to meet them in their infancy and to have a chance to see another side of them while not losing the essence of them.

@Trek Ninja – “A new, different relationship scheme would arise and hopefully everyone gets a moment to shine, not just the big three.”

I like the sound of this. I can envision Uhura needing to referee between these two guys because she understands both of them as they are NOW. Both men are performing the duties they were meant to undertake, but I would definitely like to see a bit of strain between the guys before they join hands and sing Kumbaya forever.

I want a larger helping of Sulu. Yummy Astrophysicist/Pilot – YES!!!

@Robert A. -”Keep the romance going and as I continue to watch the show/movies I will forever will be a Star Trek fan.”

THIS!!! I’m grateful to have something new featuring the beloved characters I’ve known since birth. After watching the same episodes over and over again for XX-years, I am grateful to be allowed to see the do MORE!!!

Kudos to JJ, Bob and Alex!!!

290. Hateya - April 30, 2010

*see them do MORE!!!* One day I’ll learn to type. ;)

291. Glaceau - April 30, 2010

I hope the Spock and Uhura relationship is retained……..

I’m one that isn’t hoping for subtlety where S/U is concerned. If it gets anymore subtle; their interactions will almost be completely absent from the movie as they only had about 6-10 minutes of screen time together to begin with. In my opinion.. wishing for so little screen time falls within the saying “be careful what you ask for”. Especially if you support the ship. All this subtlety is why so many people are confused about their written feelings for each other to begin with. I’m not saying I want to see the Trek Love Boat; but subtlety could mean a brush of the hand, or simple looks; and why shouldn’t they get their “moments” to display their feelings for each other!? So much can be fleshed out from this one relationship alone! EVERYONE in every situation should get their moment to shine without the sole focus being on the supposed big three. It is the new stuff in Trek 09 that made things interesting. Not the regurgitation of redundant ideas.

292. dmduncan - April 30, 2010

289: “When I think of the extraordinary changes that resulted from the demise of the USS Kelvin and George Kirk, it’s overwhelming. That one incident gave the writers the freedom to imagine a completely different, yet remarkably familiar lives for our favorite characters.”

If it’s “familiar” then it’s not “completely different.” Nothing being the same would be a good example of “completely different. So the question is not whether to keep some things the same, but which ones to keep the same and which ones to change.

Respect Spock’s personality and please don’t write Spock or the Vulcans as just pointy eared humans because some human females find that attractive. Making Spock identical to human beings but for the irrelevant characteristics of blood type, organ placement, pointy ears, and a bowl cut really does reduce the characters function in the franchise. It simplifies Star Trek, dumbs it down to the lowest common denominator of moviegoers.

Unfortunately, some fans are being misled by their own emotions to seek the transformation of Spock into someone who merely has the aforementioned irrelevant differences, and no significant BEHAVIORAL or philosophical ones. But it’s the BEHAVIOR and ways of thinking that really make him alien.

Not his haircut or ears.

Humanizing Spock would be unimaginative and boring, but it will score big points with the Spock girls.

If you follow the logic of the characters, then even having emotions Vulcans would still probably be the least romantic aliens in the galaxy, despite what some Earth girls are trying to turn them into.

Sarek lost his wife and didn’t even blink an eye.

To paraphrase a little banter between Kirk and Spock in TUC:

KIRK: You know something? Everybody’s human.

SPOCK: I find that…insulting.

Ditto, Spock. Ditto.

293. Hateya - April 30, 2010

@ Glaceau – “In my opinion.. wishing for so little screen time falls within the saying “be careful what you ask for”. Especially if you support the ship. All this subtlety is why so many people are confused about their written feelings for each other to begin with.”

I don’t necessarily disagree with your assessment… In order to post here, I have decided to believe (in this instance) that Bob and Alex have too much self-respect as professional writers and producers to listen to one fan too closely, no matter how verbal. I’m sure Boborci knows exactly how pro Uhura/Spock I am. He’s probably also gathered that I am fervently more Uhura-oriented.

I can only desperately hope that Bob and Alex have long since decided to continue proving that they can talk the talk and walk the walk. Like I said earlier, there is no more criticism to be leveled at them regarding this particular topic. They didn’t just survive a series of hurdles with this couple, they WON!!! They got my $21.00 per pop six times…and with each trip, I forced a non-Trek fan to accompany me… and all were converted to SHIPPERS!

“and why shouldn’t they get their “moments” to display their feelings for each other!? So much can be fleshed out from this one relationship alone!”

I hope that by coming here Boborci is gaining some insight into what *could* be done with them. This is why I am so heavy-handed with Nyota’s heritage. If she were fleshed out, I’m sure he could see endless opportunities.

Glaceau, please be more forthcoming with your wishes and desires, especially when new threads are made. You might be the person who supplies the spark the writers need to get the ball moving!

294. Trek Ahead - May 1, 2010

This is no longer Roddenberry’s vision. It is Paramount Pictures vision of their new cash cow.

Of course they want ‘main stream” audiences. So they dumb it down with the alternate timeline premise, throw in explosions, fist fights, hook up main characters and you appeal to the masses.

Wether you like it or hate it, it’s great to be able to voice an opinion in this forum.

Mr. Abrahms, Mr. Orci, and Mr. Kurtzman, I seriously doubt that I will spend another cent on your vision of Star Trek. I could blather on and on and on with reason after reason why I dislike your movie. Suffice it to say I will spend my time watching and reading intelligent and engaging science fiction.

Try taking some notes from James Cawley. He got it right!

295. Hateya - May 1, 2010

@Boborci,

If you decide to do something regarding Pon Farr and Spock’s quasi-wife, please understand that an AFRICAN Nyota Uhura is not going to act a fool just because the man she loves was bonded to another as a child. She would be definitely understand the concept of an “arranged marriage” even if she is miffed that he didn’t mention it sooner.

Nyota Uhura herself might be promised to another man. Just because this really extreme fantasy of a global earth exists doesn’t mean people are going to give up their identities, languages and cultures/traditions.

Please don’t mess this up. There’s a reason Harlequin Romances aren’t replete with African or women of African descent. I’m just saying…

You don’t need to change her “accent” though. It’s a survival strategy for women to change their manner of speaking or to speak with a neutral accent in order to fit their current environments.

296. vpd4 - May 6, 2010

If they end it, I will never watch another Star Trek movie they make. The real people are Trekkers not Trekkies any more. It gave a whole new jump start to the series; you morons. It threw out everything but yet kept the essence of the Trek universe. Give it a rest…move on.

297. Dio - May 11, 2010

Keep it going….apparently most people didnt watch the original series. Its not as if this came out of nowhere. There was even a feeling of it in the original show. (Of course it would have been controversial then because of stupid racists)

And no, Vulcans can mate whenever they want to. Its just that they have relinquished their feelings so much that their bodies made an adaptation that requires them to mate AT LEAST once every seven years. Its to make sure they don’t “logic” themselves out of existence.

Im sure new blood will help them stay intelligent. If they don’t marry outside of their race, they will soon be inbred. I say this because they don’t pop out babies like humanoids do (for example Octo-mom).

Look at Spock; hes smart, hes capable of being more than a robot, and hes cute. Most people would say he passes for being a full Vulcan….why does it even matter? As a person of mixed race, I find everyone’s negative attitude toward their relationship to actually be offensive. Gee, maybe if I’m lucky, I can pass for being one or another part of my race, instead of accepting both as well.

298. Trek Lady - May 11, 2010

297

“Keep it going….apparently most people didn’t watch the original series. Its not as if this came out of nowhere. ”

Well, there was ONE episode in which Uhura bantered with Spock in what could be considered a flirty way… in a scene that by the end of she was thoroughly disgusted with him because of his non-emotional reaction to Kirk’s possible death. And she sang with him once. And he picked her up off the floor a couple times when they got bounced around due to the “conflict of the week” …

Not exactly foreshadowing of some big romance.

I don’t mind the idea that people find some indications in TOS of something between them – but let’s be honest here – Spock and Chapel had scenes that could be seen as romantic. Kirk and Uhura had scenes that could be considered romantic. Uhura and Chapel even touched once in a way that could be construed as romantic. Heck, Kirk and Spock flirted more than Spock and Uhura…but I wouldn’t expect them to be the big romance in the reboot.

As to being offended by the opinions of those who did not like the romance between them because you are of mixed race, I am afraid I don’t understand how one relates to the other. I don’t think anyone has any problem with Spock being a human/Vulcan hybrid. Did you read something that suggests that is the case? Unless you are referring to the comments about how the romance makes him seem “less Vulcan” – but that is a matter of culture – not race. He was raised in the Vulcan culture to act Vulcan. That is a choice on his part. It is interesting to watch him explore his human emotions, certainly. That was always one of the big appeals of Nimoy’s character – watching that personal struggle for self-identity. However, concerns that he may become “too human” if the writers neglect to respect his alien nature are not racist, nor are the anti- mixed race… if anything they shows concerns for respective cultural differences. Spock is not just a human with strong emotional controls. He is a Vulcan with less emotional control due to his human heritage. They are very different things!

Of course, I can only speak for myself, but my dislike of the romance aspect of the film has nothing to do with Spock’s mixed heritage…or with Uhura’s race for that matter – or with some deep seated hatred of women – though people seem unwilling to accept that.

299. Hateya - May 11, 2010

I absolutely love how discussion of Nyota Uhura/Spock’s relationship never ceases. It’s been an entire year!!! I guess it’s still all very surreal for me. Six minutes of Uhura/Spock is worthy of more heated debate than THE BIG HAPPENINGS that took place throughout the entire film. It just boggles the mind….

Since this is the case, the characters benefit as much from the anti-shipping as they do the actual shipping. It would have been much easier for the writers to ignore the shippers… tee hee.

Thanks anti Uhura/Spock folks for keeping our beloved couple in the spotlight!!!

I’m wondering when interviewers will begin asking different questions. For example, “Tell me, Zoe. What’s it like to play the romantic interest of a man who has two versions of himself running around in the same galaxy? (Me: Creepy…eeeewwwww) One version of that man created the universe that resulted in your thinner and less caboose-heavy existence. Not only that, he and his crazed nemesis could be equally responsible for the genocide of six billion Vulcans. Their interaction almost resulted in the destruction of your planet, too. How do you think your character feels about that? Hmmmm…

It’s proof that Uhura/Spock – Absolutely Brilliant!

300. Trek Lady - May 12, 2010

299

“Six minutes of Uhura/Spock is worthy of more heated debate than THE BIG HAPPENINGS that took place throughout the entire film. It just boggles the mind….”

Obviously it is an issue that people feel passionately about – one way or the other. However, I have also participated in debates about some of the other “BIG HAPPENINGS” in the film as well. (Check out the recent 1 Year Anniversary Post if you want to see some heating discussion about other aspects of the film – a thread which is quite a bit longer than this one, by the way.) The difference being that you generally don’t get accused of misogyny or racism if you think blowing up Vulcan was a bad idea, or can’t quite figure out the logic behind Red Matter… when people start calling other people nasty names over their opinions, things can get heated – which tend to entrench opinions even more, because folks stop listening to each other.

301. Hateya - May 12, 2010

@Trek Lady

I agree. It’s definitely an issue people feel passionately about one way or another and I’m rather THANKFUL the couple still gets this exposure.

There are a few things I want to say about the big issue of racism and then I’ll concentrate on redoubling my efforts to promote my ship and my girl.

“if you think blowing up Vulcan was a bad idea, The difference being that you generally don’t get accused of misogyny or racism”

It is unfair if someone calls *you* racist and misogynistic if you are in fact NOT, Trek Lady. Nonetheless, given how prevalent these things ARE in our society (meaning within the US), it’s understandable why someone on the other side might misconstrue your meaning or vice-versa. Here’s why.

If you are a member of the MAJORITY, it’s a fair bet that you have no earthly idea what it is like to be a member of the minority in the US. As such, you have no idea what it is like to see members of your ethnicity treated as disposable tools both in real life and in a *majority* of Hollywood depictions even in fictional settings where allegedly the society is beyond racism.

Bob, Alex, JJ and even Paramount (shocking, I know) took a huge risk in presenting Uhura as so beautiful, so brilliant and so desirable that even SPOCK wanted her.

On the surface, it might seem like such a tiny and insignificant thing, but in reality what Bob, Alex and JJ did was call Hollywood on the bull that the studios have been perpetrating since their conception. Granted, they said they did it to “shake things up,” but the outcome was the same. Hollywood bull – called!

This a HUGE issue for minorities and for others who wish to be viewed as full members of our society. So, Boborci… bring on the high-profile same sex couple, too. Admiral Pike and his man would be great!

In addition, not all people of color care for the relationship. They also have a wide range of views, which includes ZQ’s race as a negative. Some also fit within these arguments and I can easily disagree in one post.

1) Vulcans don’t have emotions and would never take a human mate – Amanda/Sarek.
2) Spock is bonded to T’Pring and is a two-timer — fair enough, if he is bonded to T’Pring in this alternative universe and she is alive.
3) Shipping stinks – UST stinks.
4) It’s wrong for Spock to date a junior officer in the Star Trek universe – Mr. Roddenberry showcased a conflicting view in “Balance of Terror.” Starfleet isn’t the US Navy.
5) Uhura was reduced to just a girlfriend – Women can have a big job, a big education and still have a man (or woman). I could be weird, but I had no qualms with Uhura taking a few minutes to comfort Spock after his mother was murdered and his entire planet with 6 billion people were obliterated or seeing him off on a suicide mission.

There are more arguments and I usually don’t engage in them because I’m rooted in my position…

“when people start calling other people nasty names over their opinions”

I agree and this is why I don’t discuss anything with anyone who would rather disparage others than present their opinions. I skip their posts.

Instead, I prefer to promote the Uhura/Spock Ultimate Love ship while simultaneously trying to convince the writers that a more well-rounded Nyota Uhura would serve the overall story’s best interest.

302. Trek Lady - May 13, 2010

301

Hateya,

No, I am not a member of a minority (other than female). I understand this and am quite willing to admit it when discussing the impact of S/U. (Actually, being female is an issue to me when it comes to one of the biggest problems I have with S/U – which I will address later. ) In fact, some of the most enriching discussions I have had on this issue were with people who were open to sharing with me HOW much of an impact Uhura and Spock’s relationship had on “people of color.” I understand that. I welcomed those discussions and found great value in participating them. I have always strived to see things from different points of view, and try to better understand those whose life experiences differ from mine, for whatever reason. I BELIEVE in IDIC and try to practice it in my life. Nichelle Nichols was the first of the Trek actors I ever met… at my first Trek convention, to which I drug my best friend (who *is* a POC) because I knew how much of an impact the character had on her and she was too scared to go alone. Nichelle was a delight, and my friend cried, and it was beautiful and thrilling for both of us. Uhura’s importance as a visible POC is one of the things I DO think was positive about the pairing – but care needs to be taken that the integrity of the characters isn’t risked in order to empower certain audience members.

Unfortunately, the majority of the interactions I have read or participated in with supporters of this ship have not been so positive. Sadly, I have too often found the opinions and views of those who do not support this ship totally dismissed without any effort to try and understand where people were coming from – – it is hard to accept that someone’s “meaning” is being “misconstrued” when there is no attempt to even listen to said meaning – simply disliking S/U too often gets you labeled sexist or racist without any effort to understand an alternate POV. I do not doubt that there ARE those who are anti-Spock and Uhura due to racism or sexism. I have encountered a few of them myself. They do not speak for me. In fact, they disgust me.

But, as you *do* seem willing to listen, let me deal with some of the points you raised. I should make it clear that not all of the views you brought up represent my own – but I feel I can perhaps address all of them anyway. Much of what I see as a miscommunication here has to do with HOW the anti-ship arguments are viewed, as opposed to the arguments themselves. Just reading through your list, I can clearly see which concerns you are addressing, but the way in which you state them tends to simplify very complex issues.

1) Vulcans don’t have emotions and would never take a human mate – Amanda/Sarek.

See, for me the argument has never been “Vulcans have no emotions and would never take a human mate…” Of course they could. As you stated, Sarek Amanda is a perfect example, and as their son, Spock is even more likely to consider such. However, I must admit, I have also not seen this particular viewpoint expressed as stated. What I HAVE seen is a concern about Spock involved in a romantic relationship that is so openly physical… kissing on the transporter pad is just not on – for a Vulcan OR for a Starfleet officer who is supposed to be concentrating upon the mission at hand. Even Sarek remained stoic upon Amanda’s death while in the presence of others. I personally have fewer problems with the turbolift scene, because it is at least NOT a public space. I think there is a concern that such emotional displays could compromise Spock’s Vulcan integrity – I mean, when he became overly emotional with Kirk, he ended up admitting he was compromised and giving up command!

2) Spock is bonded to T’Pring and is a two-timer — fair enough, if he is bonded to T’Pring in this alternative universe and she is alive.

Yes. I agree here as we do not even know if T’Pring exists, I do think it is a bit much to assume Spock is cheating on her.

3) Shipping stinks – UST stinks.

Different strokes I guess. I prefer UST, mainly because in every fandom I have enjoyed in which the potential UST has shifted to actual shipping, the romance had been badly done, the characters have suffered and the show has generally ended up being cancelled shortly there after. I simply do not trust a bunch of male writers to get this right. Plus, UST tends to keep a lot more people happy. You can have all sorts of “potential” ships going on, and all sorts of happy fans – but once the powers that be start promoting just ONE ship and shutting out all other potential ships, then a lot of fans get disappointed and angry and the fur starts to fly.

4) It’s wrong for Spock to date a junior officer in the Star Trek universe – Mr. Roddenberry showcased a conflicting view in “Balance of Terror.” Starfleet isn’t the US Navy.

No, it is not the US Navy, but it is a military organization, and the frat rules are pretty universal when it comes to that. There are IMPORTANT reasons to avoid such situations. Uhura isn’t just a junior officer – she is directly under Spock’s command. BIG no-no. If Spock is in a position to send someone into a dangerous situation, will he be able to put aside his feelings for Uhura and send her? Or will he send someone else who might be less qualified in order to keep her safe? This is dealt with a few times when we see Kirk agonize over having to send Spock to his probably death… but he does it. Likely Spock would as well, but the rules are there to keep such situations from arising at all! You might not be able to regulate “friendship” but you can keep those friendships from becoming romantic – and if you can’t there is a solution – transfer the junior officer to some other position which is no longer under the direct command of their love interest. I wonder how Uhura would feel about being demoted off the bridge, or sent to some other ship in order to keep having a relationship with Spock.

5) Uhura was reduced to just a girlfriend – Women can have a big job, a big education and still have a man (or woman). I could be weird, but I had no qualms with Uhura taking a few minutes to comfort Spock after his mother was murdered and his entire planet with 6 billion people were obliterated or seeing him off on a suicide mission.

This is probably the hardest one to explain clearly… because I suspect that for many it was not a matter of saying that a woman can’t have a big job, a big education AND a lover…after all, that is what the women’s rights movement is all about! The problem isn’t that they CAN’T or that they SHOULDN’T, but that in this movie, the writers failed to show that Uhura could balance all three! As a woman, I have issues with Uhura’s character overall, as shown in this film – as how a strong female character is written by a bunch of men – but let’s just concentrate on the issue at hand. I was THRILLED when Uhura showed up on the bridge and was able to speak all the dialects of Romulan – that was awesome – and if THAT Uhura had stuck around, I would likely have far LESS difficulty with her relationship with Spock. But after that, she just sort of faded into the background EXCPET for those scenes in which she was someone acting as girlfriend. Wouldn’t it have been fantastic if Nero had spoken in Romulan, and only Uhura could have accurately translated it? WOW! Or seeing her find a way to override the interference from the drill and get through to Vulcan? Wouldn’t it have been great if Pike had asked HER to do the ship wide broadcast, since it was actually kind of her job? Wouldn’t it have been intense to see her struggling to get a planet wide evacuation started to save as many as possible on Vulcan? Maybe trying traditional contact protocols, being frustrated by the calm and methodical Vulcan communications channels, and totally hacking the system to go straight to the top? Or arranging for all the Enterprise transporters to start beaming Vulcans aboard as fast as possible?

No. Instead, we see her leave her post after being asked to start an evacuation of a doomed planet that has minutes to exist to ask her boyfriend where he is going… Couldn’t she have commed him while he was on his way? Does she really need to ask if they can’t beam his parents out, like Spock would not have thought of that? How many Vulcans died because she delayed? Have you thought about the fact that Amanda essentially dies because Uhura slowed Spock down by the few seconds it would have taken to beam her safely off the planet?

I personally do not mind that she took a few minutes in the lift to comfort Spock after his planet was destroyed. That was not during a crisis situation, and it was a private moment. However, I do have difficulty with the transporter scene, because she really should not be there. Her post is on the bridge. The ship is about to embark on a major mission and she should be at her post! It is negligent to be somewhere else so you can kiss your boyfriend good-bye – even *if* he is going on a suicide mission. And it is unsuitable to be kissing in front of other officers and the captain! When you sign up to serve in a military capacity, there are certain obligations you are expected to uphold – and DUTY is top most. It may not be very merciful, or compassionate– but it is expected, and ignoring that duty is grounds for dismissal…. In my opinion, (and apparently many others as well) Uhura comes across as unprofessional here. And THAT is what bothers me about how her character is affected by her relationship with Spock.

Yeah, the beautiful POC gets a main character! (And by the way, I always felt Uhura was beautiful and desirable… I didn’t need Spock kissing her to convince me of that )

But at what price to her integrity as a professional?

(This discussion too often leads to the strawman counter-argument of, “But McCoy leave his post too…” or “But Kirk is unprofessional too!” Since we are not discussing Kirk or McCoy at the moment, I see no double standard being applied by discussing Uhura’s actions in a discussion about Uhura. )

I doubt I will convince you to stop shipping S/U… in fact, I have no desire to do so. If it makes you happy, that is great. And it obviously means a lot to you. I too hope for a more well rounded Uhura in the next film. As a woman, I just really wish the focus will be more on her role as a woman in a professional position on the bridge.
I hope that, at the very least, I have made some of the anti-Uhura concerns a bit clearer.

You do not need to reply – unless you feel I have misconstrued something, etc. I feel we have perhaps dominated this thread enough for now. But I have enjoyed addressing you with this post.

LL&P

Wow…we did get this thread over the 300 mark!

303. Hateya - May 13, 2010

@TrekLady.

In fact, I was listening and I appreciate you reciprocating. I also appreciate the effort you went through to explain some other people’s points of view.

In another discussion, I definitely would have honed in more on Uhura’s mistreatment as a female officer and I have done so in other forums. Not only within the 2009 movie (re: Chekov), but with others (re: Spock doing Uhura’s job as it regards to V’Ger). In what is an essentially a shipping thread, I try to keep it on the lowdown because I have no desire to taint my enjoyment of this couple.

When you’re against something, it’s easy to go full throttle. If you’re *for* it, the constant bickering could taint your love and I’m not willing to sacrifice my adoration of this couple, so it’s much easier to agree to disagree on most of the issues.

As for simplifying complex issues, it’s easier on everyone else this way because while I am certainly capable of writing a full essay to address each point. Since I’m not going to change my mind and I’m not in the business of changing others, there was no reason to expand.

In real life, I’m a cognitive psychologist with a heavy evolutionary psychology bent. The last thing anyone wants is for me to begin sprouting off about human nature.

There are a few things though. “Have you thought about the fact that Amanda essentially dies because Uhura slowed Spock down by the few seconds it would have taken to beam her safely off the planet? ”

No! This is absolutely NOT true. Chekov (who had the conn at the time) made it to the transporter room and had just beamed up Kirk and Sulu when Spock arrived. That wasn’t Uhura’s fault because Spock left BEFORE Chekov (a serious dereliction of duty, acting Captain Spock), I wonder what took him so long to grab a utility belt and a phaser.

Why did Spock take the lift when Chekov took the corridor? If I really wanted to, I could ask questions like this all day, but the answers would taint my enjoyment of the movie. Picking every nit I encounter isn’t my style.

I’m fairly certain the Vulcan Elders could have commandeered an ship. They chose to go to the Katric Arc. Whether they meant to stay there until they died or whether they thought they could prevent the catastrophe, I don’t know. What I do know is that Amanda’s personal safety was not Sarek’s priority. It was Spock’s and he risked the lives of HIS crew to rescue his parents and the Elders. Officer or not, I would have probably done the same thing. My family FIRST.

Amanda died because she’d served her purpose. She gave birth to Spock, she lived, she died, Spock lost it, and he was resurrected as a fairly reasonable incarnation of an actual peaceful and tranquil Vulcan. Neither Uhura nor her “unprofessionalism” is the blame for Amanda’s death. That’s an entirely different issue.

It’s also curious how you put the events of the transporter scene squarely on Uhura’s shoulders. Since after the fight, Uhura did not leave her post again despite wanting to, how do you know she wasn’t requested to go to the transporter room? Even someone like me can think of a reason more pro-woman, pro-officer than the one Alan Dean Foster (see Captain Pike) came up with although his was valid.

Furthermore, it was clearly conveyed that Spock was the “assertive” party in *that* kiss. In a thread on Uhura-and-Spock, I can’t help but wonder why she’s being blamed for *his* actions as well as her own. Alas, as a woman, too, I already know the answer.

The list I made wasn’t priority for me. It was actually just a list of stuff I’d read and basically since none of the arguments held water for because I could always come up with a COUNTER argument, they fell into the category of YMMV. In most instances, I could use the movie itself as “evidence.”

“Yeah, the beautiful POC gets a main character! (And by the way, I always felt Uhura was beautiful and desirable… I didn’t need Spock kissing her to convince me of that)”

My argument wasn’t about her GETTING the main character and I’m rather distressed that after all you wrote, this is how you summed it up. This is a complex issue that you’re simplifying. Nothing as “simple” as that could have stirred up such passions in long suffering POC ST fans and the actual all out racists!!

“I too hope for a more well rounded Uhura in the next film. As a woman, I just really wish the focus will be more on her role as a woman in a professional position on the bridge.”

I wholeheartedly agree; however, before they can make her a more well-rounded professional woman, they need to make her a well-rounded PERSON. Forty plus years and counting. I tried to give Boborci hints about how they could integrate her culture into not only her personal life, but also her professional life. Understanding who she is as a person would definitely go a long way in understanding her motivations and why she acts the way she does.

Whether they’ll have the time or the motivation to investigate a possible heritage for Nyota Uhura remains to be seen. Perhaps they’ll run across an actual African. There was at least one Swahili speaker in their movie. Maybe they can trace her. I’m fairly sure the studios aren’t busting down the doors to give her jobs despite the fact that she was looking fierce in her Afro.

Many of your arguments above (there is validity within all of them), Trek Lady, do not actually point to the character of UHURA herself. Instead, they point to what might be construed as “shotty writing” and I don’t blame characters for this element in a story. In almost every instance where you noted that Uhura was unprofessional, better writing and foresight could have made for a drastic improvement.

In many ways, I’m glad you did because now I can reinforce my argument that this is ***the ultimate problem*** for POCs when they are portrayed in Hollywood. Historically speaking, characters like UHURA don’t benefit from such foresight and vision. That’s why when Uhura got as much as she did, it had a tremendous impact on so many people, not just the POCs.

The racists were impacted. So were the studios. They must have enjoyed those trips to the bank. For this, I’ll always be grateful to Bob, Alex and JJ. To their credit, whatever their motivations, something positive changed because *they* made it happen.

In closing, if the crew had been shown ultra-professional, then the movie would have just been another in a long line of Star Trek movies. From what I understand, the last couple were forgettable. Instead this one was based upon showing us the “beginning” in an alternate timeline.

For this reason, an under-experienced crew of recent graduates acting unprofessionally while they faced a real Kobayashi Maru situation might ring a bit more realistic than the opposite.

If Captain Pike had remained onboard the Enterprise, things might have been completely different. From the moment Pike beamed onto the Narada, things started to go wrong, very wrong. Everyone made questionable decisions, even Uhura. Nonetheless, as a junior officer her poor judgment was significantly LESS troublesome to me than other judgments that were made, especially those made by Spock.

I will continue to happily ride upon the Uhura/Spock Ultimate Love Ship!!

“People all over the world (Join in, ride this train), Join in (Ride this train, y’all), Start a love train (Come on, train), love train”

Happy love songs are great!!! The O’Jays rule!

304. Trek Lady - May 14, 2010

Drat! And here I thought I could drop this thread…but you brought up some very interesting points. (*Shakes fist at you*)

***“When you’re against something, it’s easy to go full throttle. If you’re *for* it, the constant bickering could taint your love and I’m not willing to sacrifice my adoration of this couple, so it’s much easier to agree to disagree on most of the issues. “

I guess I am more interested in looking at both sides of the issue than in just defending my particular POV. I think hearing what others have to say helps me understand not only their experiences, but my own as well.

***”As for simplifying complex issues, it’s easier on everyone else this way because while I am certainly capable of writing a full essay to address each point. Since I’m not going to change my mind and I’m not in the business of changing others, there was no reason to expand. “

On the other hand, I prefer to expand because I have found that simplifying things too often leads me to mis-communication and loss of clarity.

***”In real life, I’m a cognitive psychologist with a heavy evolutionary psychology bent. The last thing anyone wants is for me to begin sprouting off about human nature.

Fascinating! (To coin a phrase) That must be a very interesting field of study. My BA was in psychology, but had more of a sociological than evolutionary focus. I am not even sure they had such a field when I was in school. And I would likely love to read your comments about human nature. (But I am just weird that way…)

****”There are a few things though. “Have you thought about the fact that Amanda essentially dies because Uhura slowed Spock down by the few seconds it would have taken to beam her safely off the planet? ”

No! This is absolutely NOT true.

Okay… I was (admittedly) pulling your leg a bit there, as this is not really anything I blame Uhura for at all… although the thought had crossed my mind when she was standing there and I am thinking, “Spock! Move your ass!” You are absolutely right about the whole “Why did Spock take so long to get to the transporter room? And why is he leaving before Chekov and getting there after?” thing.

Unfortunately, I think this is one of those poor plot points that annoy me about this movie. Too many little things like this that were apparently necessary to move the plot forward, but did so in a way that not only does not feel organic to me, but which actually cause problems.

****”If I really wanted to, I could ask questions like this all day, but the answers would taint my enjoyment of the movie. Picking every nit I encounter isn’t my style.

Apparently, it is mine. LOL!

****Amanda died because she’d served her purpose. She gave birth to Spock, she lived, she died, Spock lost it, and he was resurrected as a fairly reasonable incarnation of an actual peaceful and tranquil Vulcan.

Yes, another convenient plot point that I feel could have been better handled. One of my big complaints with this film are the many “move the plot forward” aspects that just seem to take the easy way from point A to point B, rather than trying to find a more realistic and perhaps more difficult path.

****It’s also curious how you put the events of the transporter scene squarely on Uhura’s shoulders. Since after the fight, Uhura did not leave her post again despite wanting to, how do you know she wasn’t requested to go to the transporter room?

True, we don’t’ know that she wasn’t requested there… although I am not sure why should would be, since all she essentially does is tell Spock she is monitoring him. Unless he asks her there because he just wants some sugah…

****Even someone like me can think of a reason more pro-woman, pro-officer than the one Alan Dean Foster (see Captain Pike) came up with although his was valid.

I think this reflects the fact that all the writers were white men… *sigh*

***”Furthermore, it was clearly conveyed that Spock was the “assertive” party in *that* kiss. In a thread on Uhura-and-Spock, I can’t help but wonder why she’s being blamed for *his* actions as well as her own. Alas, as a woman, too, I already know the answer.

Actually, one of my problems with S/U is the way in which I feel it is ALSO detrimental to Spock’s character, and this is a perfect example. NEITHER of them is acting in a professional manner here, and if he DID request her presence for his own gratification, he is way out of line.

****”My argument wasn’t about her GETTING the main character and I’m rather distressed that after all you wrote, this is how you summed it up.

Fair enough, but for me ,the suggestion that Uhura is somehow more validated because she is now in a relationship with a lead male just rubs me the wrong way. It reminds me too much of all those girls in high school and college who did not value themselves for themselves, but only in terms of which “cute” guys they could claim as their current boyfriend. Maybe it is because MY experience was always as the plain-Jane girl who did not NEED or even WANT a boyfriend to feel complete and considered myself well rounded without such a relationship. I am single and happy to be. Maybe it is just a desire to see ME up on the screen for once. In other words, I am biased here by my personal experiences and background – as I suspect are you.

*** “I too hope for a more well rounded Uhura in the next film. As a woman, I just really wish the focus will be more on her role as a woman in a professional position on the bridge.”

***I wholeheartedly agree;

See we are getting to know each other. (Sorry, couldn’t resist.)

****Many of your arguments above (there is validity within all of them), Trek Lady, do not actually point to the character of UHURA herself. Instead, they point to what might be construed as “shotty writing” and I don’t blame characters for this element in a story. In almost every instance where you noted that Uhura was unprofessional, better writing and foresight could have made for a drastic improvement.

YES YES YES! My point about why I feel the writing focused around using Uhura too much in the “traditional female role” of girlfriend and neglected other important aspects of her character.

****In many ways, I’m glad you did because now I can reinforce my argument that this is ***the ultimate problem*** for POCs when they are portrayed in Hollywood.”

I would argue that although this may be true of POC’s it is also true of female characters in general – especially in those films seen as appealing to a more male demographic. They need to do better by Uhura for both POCs and women since she is likely the only main female character we will see much of… I have to couch this with a qualifier that I do not want to see Uhura replace McCoy as the third angle in the big triad. I also want more McCoy in the next film. Surely, there is some way they can manage to allow both these characters to shine.

***In closing, if the crew had been shown ultra-professional, then the movie would have just been another in a long line of Star Trek movies.

I actually liked the new ‘edginess” of the characters, and their slightly reckless nature. I just think it is also a fine line that can too easily be crossed. The writers should tread very carefully here. We need to see these characters grow into the professionals a Starship requires, or it will be a case of “GLEE in space” or something.

Ahem… however, I really should be careful about how much I complain about “military protocol” since if they stick to it too closely; Kirk and Spock will likely NEVER beam down to any planets, and where is the fun in that?

***”I will continue to happily ride upon the Uhura/Spock Ultimate Love Ship!!

Here’s hoping that somehow the writers manage to keep both of the shippers and anti-shippers happy with the next installment, because I really do not want anyone to feel the kind of disappointment I fear could happen if things are not handled with respect for both views.

Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. Obviousy, the writers need to consult us before completing the next screen play. :D

305. Hateya - May 15, 2010

@Trek Lady

“Drat! And here I thought I could drop this thread…but you brought up some very interesting points. (*Shakes fist at you*)”

I’ll be back here continuing this thread as soon as I can because there’s so MUCH I want to say! Unlike lucky people in the world, my work week begins on Saturday! Drat!!!

306. Hateya - May 15, 2010

@Trek Lady.

The MUCH I want to say will be good stuff. Gotta run! Argh!

307. NoLongerTrekker - May 17, 2010

Was redirected here while researching something about TOS Spock. I’ve quit watching everything related to Trek, except TOS, because of the absurdity and cheapening that has happened to Trek. The Spock/Uhura romance is a prime example of how stupid, dumbed down, and brainless Trek has become. Didn’t buy the DVD and won’t see the sequel.

One of fictions most interesting, compelling, mysterious, complex, dramatic, pysychologcal thriller characters — Spock, has been reduced to simple dime-store romance novel hero in this movie to attract the simple-minded teeney bopper romance addicts.

They won’t name the next space shuttle after this kind of Trek.

308. krys - May 18, 2010

ok while i think it was ok for the first movie doesnt the whole spock/uhura thing go against the question of the relationship that never was/ behind the story of kirk/spock? i mean it is the 21 century and while im not saying they have to be all out gay about couldnt they just do what they did in the original? have that never said but kind of behind the scene spirk? it just seems weird to me dont get me wrong i love uhuras character but i grew up with the krik spock thing even if they were never together together they were still kirk and spock.

309. Hateya - May 18, 2010

@Trek Lady

It’s interesting that you studied psychology in undergraduate school. I didn’t.. I majored in Classical Chinese language/politics and journalism. Somewhere along the line my desire to *know* more and more and more reached the point where I needed to understand this desire. So it was logical to study human cognition and try to understand our true nature.

“I guess I am more interested in looking at both sides of the issue than in just defending my particular POV.”

For the most part, I’m not actually interested in defending my point of view. It’s mine and I’m quite satisfied with it. There’s no reason for me to defend it. I support the Uhura/Spock ship 100%. Furthermore, I think the issue is too complex for just two sides, so I’m always on the lookout for people who bring up an issue I haven’t yet considered. For me, openly supporting Uhura/Spock was a conscious decision. I’m not even a romantic. The workings of Uhura and Spock’s brains fascinate me more.

“using Uhura too much in the “traditional female role” of girlfriend and neglected other important aspects of her character. ”

Of course, I understand this; however, being “the girlfriend” is only one of the roles she played in this film. Being Spock’s girlfriend shouldn’t detract from her other purposes.

“Too many little things like this that were apparently necessary to move the plot forward,”

I agree. Such things are tough enough when there is one protagonist. When there are two, it’s pretty much impossible. It’s like the one of the arguments (without taking TOS into account) that the relationship came out of nowhere. I agree. We saw Kirk meet Uhura, McCoy and Pike early on.

Until we were faced with the first clue in the hanger bay that Uhura and Spock were in a relationship, as far as we knew they hadn’t even met. No… wait… I had a clue during Kirk’s “hearing” because one of the expressions Uhura made was a mirror of one Spock made. Kudos to Zoe and ZQ for thoughtful physical acting.

In any case, I don’t let these things distract me from the actual INTENT of a scene.

“I would argue that although this may be true of POC’s it is also true of female characters in general ”

Step-by-step. Personhood first…

“I have to couch this with a qualifier that I do not want to see Uhura replace McCoy as the third angle in the big triad. I also want more McCoy in the next film.”

I absolutely love Dr. McCoy, so I don’t have an issue with having more of him.This Uhura wasn’t designed to replace McCoy. As I stated in a much earlier post, the problem with the Spock-Kirk-McCoy dynamic stems from the change in Kirk. This has nothing to do with Uhura’s additional role.

In the past, Kirk always had the voice of reason (Spock) on one side and the voice of emotion/humanity (McCoy) on the other side. In this way, he could balance the decision-making process. The problem we face now is that in the 2009 movie, we had a Kirk who was completely out of control. It was either his way or no way. That had NOTHING to do with Uhura, her relationship with Spock or her screen time.

“I think this reflects the fact that all the writers were white men… *sigh*”

I suspect non-white men would have followed the same path. Alan Dean Foster probably didn’t recognize the parallels because of time restraints. There was definitely some ball-dropping here somewhere.

Nonetheless, I’m sure that if you think about events that happened earlier on the Kelvin and when Pike commanded the Enterprise, you, too, could think of a more professional reason for Uhura’s presence.

It was pretty clear to me even before the writer’s clarified it, that the transporter kiss was meant for Kirk’s benefit and that resonated on so many levels. The only thing that irked me is that Spock pronounced “Nyota” incorrectly. It is also mispronounced in the fan movie with Nichelle Nichols.

“he DID request her presence for his own gratification, he is way out of line.”

I don’t think he did. Mr. Spock is a complex character and this was just another thing he did that defied anyone attempting to push him into a nice neat box. He is capable of growth and change. Thanks to his partially human brain, to have experiences that is being denied other Vulcans. Being Uhura’s lover doesn’t mean his internal conflict (tragic mulatto syndrome -ugh) has been eliminated.

Could he order her to go on a dangerous mission? It would be foolish if he didn’t, if for no reason that she’d go anyway. Did you recognize how Uhura is dealing with the homogenized nature of Starfleet?

“the suggestion that Uhura is somehow more validated because she is now in a relationship with a lead male just rubs me the wrong way.”

I don’t know about others, but this is *not* the message I intended for you to receive. I freely admit though that it’s very difficult to peel back the layers of the deep-seeded racism that is prevalent in Hollywood’s portrayal of women of color and then help you “see” why this is significantly worse than regular/normal sexism.

“I am single and happy to be. Maybe it is just a desire to see ME up on the screen for once. In other words, I am biased here by my personal experiences and background – as I suspect are you.”

My personal background? I’ve been single and happy in the same way that I’m married and happy. I don’t see *me* in Uhura. I didn’t intend or want to see me, either. *shudder* :D

The only thing I can say is this. More than likely, you won’t ever be able to understand what Uhura represents to women of color/POC in general. What you see as a personal value in being single, happy and professional (and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with this) takes on a completely DIFFERENT meaning when women of color are on the screen. TOS Uhura was denied a choice and opportunities to expand because Nichelle Nichols was.

If you can’t understand this, then we’re destined to walk to separate paths where this issue is concerned and that would be a shame… but not surprising.

Let me see if we can reach some common ground. The portrayal of Nurse Chapel in the TOS spurred RAGE within me. To see her literally begging for Spock’s affections was an affront to me as a woman and as a person. Needless to say, I would never ever board that ship.

“Here’s hoping that somehow the writers manage to keep both of the shippers and anti-shippers happy with the next installment, because I really do not want anyone to feel the kind of disappointment I fear could happen if things are not handled with respect for both views.”

I suspect they won’t be able to have it both ways. If they break up Uhura/Spock, I won’t feel disappointment. After all, this would be par for the course. I’m here to challenge the writers to either go for a birdie or better yet, an eagle.

As a woman, I definitely understand your overall view of this relationship because it could have been handled better there weren’t so many other constraints. Alan Dean Foster’s book could have been presented better, too.

The writers left us with perhaps too many “fill in the blank” activities. But I’m giving them some leeway because it couldn’t have been easy to manage twin-protagonists (Spock and Kirk) and twin pillars of support (Uhura and McCoy), too.

May if the events of the single movie had been spread out over a trilogy, people might have been able to digest it better. However, since the writers didn’t know that yet another Star Trek movie would play so well with the mainstream (their money spends well), they couldn’t take that risk.

A series of good books that take place prior to and within the movie would probably do us all some good. I have serious issues with the ACADEMY and I’m hoping that some things will be explained in some form of another.

“Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. Obviousy, the writers need to consult us before completing the next screen play. :D”

They should! Boborci! Remember Trek Lady and Hateya!!! We can cover your tushes (tushies???) on TWO fronts!!!

310. Trek Lady - May 19, 2010

Hateya,

Once again, that you for some thoughtful, well considered commentary. I agree with much of what you said – and am not sure I disagree with anything, but just need to think further on some issues you raised. You are probably right. I may never fully understand what Uhura’s relationship with Spock means to POC…but I am trying! I have an easier time understand what SHE means as a character herself….

And I totally agree with your point about Chapel. I cringe at the way she was used in TOS. Not that Rand fared much better. The sexist fail of TOS is the elephant in the middle of the room that I have to deliberate ignore in order to enjoy other aspects of the show.

I too hope that they can help flesh out the female characters through pro-fic (and there is always fanfic).

One final question…your username? Hate-Ya…is that deliberate or is there some significance I am missing? Seems rather…ah… brutal? LOL!

Thank you for your thoughts. :) I have enjoyed our little chat.

311. Hateya - May 19, 2010

Trek Lady,

I’m also thankful for your patience, your explanations and your energy. It’Communication is a two-way street and when we actually talk, it’s so much easier to iron out difficulties. I appreciate you challenging yourself to try to understand more and I endeavor to do the same.

When shipping this couple, I never EVER forget that Nyota Uhura is a fully realized woman. She is not merely an extension of Spock.

The fan fiction is quite interesting. Some female writers will give us BOTH what we want. Others scare me because the sexism is so rampant that *they* write Uhura in such a fashion that makes me cringe. Sometimes, I can’t believe women write like that. At other times, I understand how these substandard views of women have spread to incorporate us.

As for my name… oh goodness, I just didn’t realize it seemed so brutal. My name is Ha-Te-Ya. It means “footprints in the sand.” I’m a triple minority. ;)

By the way, if you click on my name, it’ll take you to my LJ. Drop me a note in a comment anywhere and I’ll show you the way to my fan fiction. Since I’m hardly romantic and I fangirl Uhura (ahem… Spock is a Uhura fanboy), I think you might enjoy most of it. :D

Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion. I hope you have benefited as much as I have.

312. memi - June 6, 2010

Oh please give me a break why not leave Star Trek the way Gene Roddenberry left it I did not like the Uhura/Spock pairing at all Yes the history is that Gene meant for it to be on Platos stepchildren that way but it was’nt What an insult they had to put a black woman with a space alien and not with someone who is of the same species but different color give me a break Uhura should have been paired with Kirk cause people have not matured enough to get over the racism of today how in the world do they think they would be with a so called space alien At least if she had been it would have shown in the 23rd century how man got over hating each others skin color

313. m lowe - June 9, 2010

I saw this MOVIE MULTIPLE times because of the SPOCK/UHURA thing.
Otherwise I don’t think I would have seen it so much. It was different.
It was introduced brilliantly, and left my friends and I with a positive slant
even the NON trekkies liked it. I hope they explore it. IT should NOT be
the MAIN focus, but to keep it positive, and keeping it, will keep the audience coming back for more. THere are enough movies with in your face sex, lack of commitment, and crap (my kids can see this). This was handled brilliantly. I will buy the film, and keep it. One of my favorite Star Trek Movies. The strength and softness of the SPOCK character was
great.

The casting people did an EXCELLENT job. Keep it for the ages.

314. Sabaah Zehra - June 11, 2010

After reading these numerous comments, it seems most people have forgotten one simple fact: Spock PRIME can mate with a VULCAN leaving Spock to be with Uhura. Since the Vulcan race is now endangered, wouldn’t the LOGICAL route be to have the older and wiser Spock Prime mate with a female Vulcan since he is the one who will help reestablish Vulcan culture on the suitable Class-M planet he found? And even though Mr. Nimoy is retiring (and we shouldn’t expect to see Spock Prime in any sequels), the children of Spock Prime could make an appearance. And least we forget that Spock’s dad will no doubt be mated to another wife soon (and possibly another Human)? Plus, with the limited gene pool of the now Vulcan race, it would be logical for them to introduce some diversity (such as the future offspring of Sarek, Spock Prime, and Spock) in order to create a healthier diverse gene pool. And since Spock Prime was able to connect with Romulans during his timeline, it would also be logical to assume that Romulans who are not against the Federation might be willing to leave Romulas and live with the Vulcans, thereby creating a more diverse gene pool as well (plus more children).

Also, I had the privilege of meeting Mr. Nimoy in person (he is truly the kindest person I have ever met and the most spiritual) and since he has blessed the Spock/Uhura relationship, then it really should be a moot point. My only question is, will they ever do another NG film and will they finally have Q in it!

315. browncoat - June 14, 2010

Wow. so much hate! Didn’t Gene Roddenberry plan for Spock and Uhura to hook up, but was thwarted by the times? Spock hooked up with plenty of women in the series!

I for one LOVED the new development. I don’t want it to be a central theme to the next movie, but I want it in there. I’ve been shipping those two since the 70′s!

I’m just really saddened by some of these comments. Have we gotten nowhere racially in this country? Especially since it was Roddenberry’s dream to get over race? For heaven’s sake, the man had an affair with Nichelle Nichols! It’s about time we saw a positive, healthy inter-species relationship on screen, lol!

I was most thrilled to see Uhura as more than an operator.

I was *so* very skeptical of this movie, but the writers/producers/actors won me over. With the added perk of Spock/Uhura the movie was nothing but win.

316. Inney Veyl Johnston - June 23, 2010

I will be VERY UNHAPPY with a Spock/Uhura romance. VERY VERY VERY UNHAPPY. I know this is an alternative universe, but there are some universal constants. Everyone needs to look at the facts in front of them, (the sky is NOT green, people!) and accept them for what they are. SPock and Uhura were never together in TOS. No, The romance for the new movie should be SPOCK/KIRK. END. OF. STORY. Fans have waited since the first espisode of TOS for SPock and Kirk ot get together, and I challange, no, I DARE you, the writers and directors of Star Trek, do NOT keep us waiting any longer.

317. TrekkiesWithHats - June 27, 2010

Ok, I just need to rant a little here. This relationship has been a big issue for me ever since the movie came out. Don’t get me wrong from the start, I loved the movie, but I just felt that the relationship made no sense based off of all the Gene Roddenberry established for Spock in the creating of Star Trek. I mean, not to sound like a bitter old stick in the mud, but Spock was always very much the quiet reserved character, and Kirk was always the ladies man.

I acknowledge that this was set in an alternate universe so that the directors and writers could take more liberties, but I simply feel that this one was unnecessary and a little uncomfortable. First off, if Spock were really with Uhura, then it would be a very private non discussed thing. Something that really got to me in the film was when Spock and Uhura kissed in from of Jim. While still recognizing the alternate universe, I still must say that, as they established Spock to be a very similar character to the original, Spock would never be as open about his love life as that. Especially if he and Jim were not that close yet. Never would Spock openly kiss a woman in front of anyone unless under the blood fever or, in the case of This Side of Paradise, the influence of some other mind boggling thing.

The argument has been made that the relationship fit due to the fact that Spock is a half human. That being said, the movie made a point to emphasize Sarek’s influence in young Spock’s life. That being the case, would he really wish to maintain his human characteristics?

Just one more thing. The relationship especially irritated me because, while the directors and actors maintained the integrity of the well loved characters, such as Spock, McCoy, Kirk, and Scotty, they failed to do so with the more minor characters, namely Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu. The action between Uhura and Spock was completely outside the realm of Uhura’s character established by Nichelle Nichols (the original), and the character created by Leonard Nimoy (original Spock). These two individuals crafted and molded their characters for well over a decade, and I thought that the pairing of the two characters was kind of equivalent to the a slap in the face to Nichols, Nimoy, and Roddenberry, who took such care in their work

So those of you that are for the pairing, I just wanted to speak my piece. I am a sixteen year old girl, so these are the rantings of a cranky old trekkie who followed around Leonard Nimoy for thirty plus years, merely the observations of someone who grew up with a love of the Original Series and wished to express opinions and observations. I acknowledge that I am longwinded as well. :P

\\ //
` Live Long and Prosper

318. candy - June 29, 2010

considering that spock/uhura is waht gene r wanted from the begining (read some of the old bio books & you’ll see that he wanted it this way) spock/uhura should stay together. even that interracial kiss was originally going to be spock./uhura but shatner wanted that spotlight so nimoy stepped down. there are also many hints in TOS of spock/uhura…also…spock was like her mentor in music & she was even able to learn how to play the vulcan lyre even though spock didnt think anyone outside of vulcan could do it properly. they were always quite close.

that said, vulcans can mate at any time they wish…its the pon farr thats every 7 years. thats different. spock himself has been with a few dif people within 3 short TOS years….uhura….then most likely leila as well as zarabeth among a few other girls….& for those who slash….kirk as well.

finally, regardless of what’s what…spock should stay with uhura & the old spock should stay away from vulcan as well. to borrow a harry potter word, both spock’s are mudblooded & any offspring either of them make with a full vulcaness would still be mudblooded as well. they should step away & let the purebloods replenish the race.

319. Albukirky - July 13, 2010

Firstly, I intially personally do not have anything against Uhura per se nor the S/U relationship. And so it was that I enjoyed the movie very much that it got me to be very interested in TOS. So in that sense, well done film makers!

But henceforth lies the problem. Before people stone me for saying this, please let me make it very, very clear that I am aware that the movie takes place in an AU. OK. That itself gives the fact that this is not TOS. Fine, I do get that fact.

Nevertheless, I still found SPOCK’s behaviour in the movie repulsive. Admittedly, it was not really an issue before I became interested in TOS. But seeing the movie and noting the stark contrast in characteristics between Prime and nuSpock makes me shake my head in disbelief.

AU notwithstanding, and apart from the fact that nuSpock neither smile nor laugh, he resembles nothing of a Vulcan. He could have just been another Human with pointy-ears and green-blood (and yes, I’m aware that his mother was Human).

I am truly sorry for those who finds TOS Spock to be ‘boring’ and unemotional. On the contrary, I thought it was interesting to note his struggles with his dual nature. And funnily enough, his attempts at appearing more Vulcan and denying his Human side actually made him very Human instead.

Spock was an interesting character because of his conflicts and his relationships with Kirk (in particular) and McCoy were an anchor for him in his journey of self-discovery and self-acceptance. It was all very Human and very touching-it was what made him the iconic character he is.

Take all that away from him and his mystique disapears.

In the new movie, he seemed to have it made. Well, good for him, I suppose, but I was confused in the fact whether or not this nuSpock chose to devote himself to the Vulcan way of life or simply chose to be more Human. If its the latter, it explains his unVulcan behaviour throughout the movie.

If it’s the former then, I believe there is a problem. A logical Vulcan WOULD NEVER fraternize with a subordinate-it creates too much issues and TOS Spock didn’t do it, heck even Kirk the supposed playboy was wise enough to stay away from it.

Marooning Kirk from Delta Vega for just *disagreeing* with him? That’s heartless and illogical. Really. I know Kirk did it to Gary Mitchell in the TOS pilot ‘Where No Man Has Gone Before’ but that was *necessary*. Gary was a threat to the safety of the Enterprise and Humanity. Kirk? Well, apparently he was a threat to Spock’s ego.

Nearly choking Kirk on the bridge? I know he just lost his Mother and planet and I symphatise…I truly do, but that’s bad especially for a Vulcan.So even without naming my other grievances about the character of Spock here, I feel that I can safely make the deduction that he had chosen a more Human path. Not Vulcan. It would otherwise would have made him comes worse off than Sybock. (shudders)

And while the kissing in the turbolift scene was fine (it was after all done in private), the transporter pad one however, was totally illogical. A Vulcan would not have done it. Even if they are married, stroking fingers in the Vulcan kiss would have been a better alternative. Also, it demonstrates both officers lack of respect for Kirk. I have never known it to be professional to do so in front of your superiors regardless of the situations.

I believe even Scotty was appalled; his expressions said so.

Most important of all, I feel that S/U detracts from the inevitable Kirk, Spock, McCoy friendship. After all, Spock’s already found a steady Human anchor in Uhura. No matter what, it would be the most important relationships in his life. His relationship with Kirk which Roddenberry intended to be ‘a relationship that complete each other’ would be null and void.

For those who saw the S/U connection in TOS, sorry I didn’t see it. Not even in the recreation room scene in Charlie X. She was teasing him, he smiled, yes. But should I point out the countless (non spores/drugs/amnesia induced) times, he smiled at Kirk throughout TOS and the movies?

After all, this is the AU after all and TOS is just lame and old isn’t it?

@ TrekLady and others here who share similar views to mine, I’m glad to know that I’m not the only one (;D)

320. Albukirky - July 13, 2010

I also believe that the poll is rather biased. Basically the choices go like so:

A) Yes to S/U
B) Yes to S/U
C) Yes to S/U
D) No S/U

It’s always going to be YAY the majority wins…

321. MoreSpockUhura - July 22, 2010

YES YES YES to Spock/Uhura! And more kissing scenes please. They are the loveliest and sweetest couple to ever grace the sci-fi screen! A+ to Zach and Zoe!

322. Olivia - July 29, 2010

The whole Spock/Uhura thing is ridiculous. So what are we going to have to endure now? Both of them undergoing Ponn Farr together? You know what. I’ll stick with TOS. It makes much more sense than this farce.

323. TheNewVoyages - August 4, 2010

I don’t think the romance was handled well at all. When I was watching it I thought that it looked forced. I dunno, it’s just too fast and sudden. Also I agree with some other opinions here that it seemed very OOC for both characters to act like they did. Kissing while on duty is definitely not professional no matter what the situation. I hope the writers will find a way to untangle the weave of messed web they have spun.

324. blue_ice - August 4, 2010

I loved Spock and Uhura. I do hope they expand on their relationship a bit more in the sequel. They make such a lovely couple, and compliment each very well. They were so sweet together.

325. Spohura_fan - August 19, 2010

Keep the S/U love. But noooooo sex scenes, and please, …easy on the smoochfests.

The writers should let their relationship continue to have strong undercurrents of love and devotion in a classy way, without detering or taking away from the action, adventure, and male comaraderie of the film. I think the movie was too Spockcentric, and I hope the writers focus on more action and adventure in the next film. But, to kill the romance in midflow, short of giving S & U permanent amnesia, would seem wrong.

It was very clever of the writers to not have everything spelled out about their relationship. Fanfic-er’s have adequately proven that leaving more to the imagination is both effective and engrossing. Many writers at fanfiction.net have filled in the blanks quite plausibly regarding the orgins of their relationship.

Another observation about this romance:

Their romance is kind of classic in a sort of Pride and Prejudice kind of way. Unpopular outcast meets popular pretty unobtainable girl. Both are unlikely loves. BUT outcast just happens to be:

a) extremely good looking,
b) son of an intergalatic Ambassador,
c) a scholastic genius and prodigy,
d) he has a very prestigious job as a commander
e) and f I’m not mistaken, his lineage consist of being part of the high Council of Vulcan, like being a direct member of the Royal Family of a whole planet!!
f) mates for life, as in – no divorce or hanky panky??!!
e) and, here’s the best part … THIS MAN DOESN”T LIE!!

Are you kidding me?! – He’s better than Mr. Darcy in many ways! … There’s no way the writters can totally scrap this romance

Suffice it to say … STXI has attracted a whole new group of romantics to the franchise.

326. A. Moyer - August 22, 2010

Spock hooks up with Christine Chapel. Should have been, will have been. End of story.

327. sandy - August 27, 2010

For those of you that ‘hinted’ Spock could be EASILY taken advantage of in a weak moment in his life – I just don’t buy it. nor do i believe that Uhura would take advantage of Spock like that – both notions are trite and out of character for the both of them.

It only stands to reasons that they were in a relationship for quite a while for Spock to give in. Don’t kill the love – It was acutally quite powerful.

But thier romance should not be central to the script. just a sideline and known fact. not overdone — it is such a sore spot with some people. ZQ & ZS are both very good-looking, no wonder people are pissed. There are plenty of variable for oposition to this romance based on that alone. – but not from me.

Christine Chapel was annoying to Spock…. don’t want to keep beating that dead horse.

328. Sylvia - September 12, 2010

Good lord some of you people really need to relax! It’s an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE! Just look at the emotion Spock exhibits from the first time we meet him until the end of the flick, whenever someone disrespects his mother. In fact, he makes a lot of emotional (for a Vulcan) decisions. He’s a HYBRID and in this universe he obviously leans more toward the human site – evident in the fact that he obviously did not opt to purge his emotions. The characters seem happy together, let them ride with it. It’s not a focal point anyway.

As for the Kirk/Spock/Bones dynamic: it’s only the FIRST MOVIE. Also, while Kirk and Bones went to the academy together for 3yrs, Spock has just met them and circumstances did not lend themselves to sitting around bonding over ales.

Spock Prime told his younger self to “put aside logic and do what feels right” – probably something he wished he’d done and now has a chance to, however vicariously. Apparently what felt right was join the Enterprise to be with Uhura, Kirk and Bones. Why the drama? This ISN’T TOS. Get over it!

329. Hakka - September 19, 2010

**Spock Prime told his younger self to “put aside logic and do what feels right” – probably something he wished he’d done and now has a chance to, however vicariously.***

Actually I do am sure (although only Nimoy probably really knows, since Spock IS him, more than the writers/J.J.Abrams’: hell, the man played this Vulcan for half a life, it’s HIS character!), Spock Prime meant “join Kirk” – and only consequently the Enterprise crew – since his whole involvement with the young counterparts was meant to make the famous “KirkSpock” team form again. He doesn’t say “go there so you can get back to the woman you have left because you wanted to help your race on the colony”.
Putting aside the whole shipping K/S, Kirk has been the most important person in Spock’s life (“a friendship that will define you both”) and the one with whom he will reach something unimaginable. What “KirkSpock the Team” achieved? Saved the Earth countless times? Saved the President and the Peace itself? Almost made Klingons open to peace? I have to really go on? And what about Kirk risking ALL to save Spock? Yes, the senior crew helped him (and made all ST III’s events possible), but would they really had done it so if Kirk wasn’t the first one to mention it?
Spock Prime wants his younger counterpart to know what a friendship with Kirk will make him achieve both as First Officer and as an unique Vulcan-human being. So this point has no sense.

Apart from this, I’m 10.000% with Trekkielady, TrekkiesWithHats and Albukirky. I’m not against S/U per se because I’m an evil meanie girl, but the romance itself (and how it has been handled) totally changed Spock into an OOC character (and, in part, even Uhura’s too). nu!Spock is Spock only because he’s seen calling Sarek “father” and Amanda “mother”, but in all the other aspects he is only another Vulcan-human who chose the Human side instead of the Vulcan one. And, since Nero’s impact in Spock’s life should start only with the Vulcan crisis… why the hell Spock should choose the Human side when Spock Prime never choose it (embraced yes, chosen no)?

If S/U shippers fight for their pairing, fine. But not mention TOS to justify this pairing to then drop TOS with a “It’s an AU, so shut up!” when TOS offers *too much* points to anti-S/U (re: a single scene of shippable S/U against *countless* of K/S). TOS was about Kirk, Spock and McCoy as the three sides of a man and such (can’t explain it as it should because I suck in such type of essay and in English language): with the addition of this Uhura, there can’t be a Spock finding his balance in Kirk and Bones because he already have Uhura… therefore, no “friendship that will define you both”, and Kirk (already not-controlled himself) will have only the overly-emotional Bones to find balance in, and Spock will be only a strict First Officer always read to fight him (with a Communication Officer always there to back the Vulcan up).

This movie would have TOTALLY worked if TOS never existed. Wasn’t it more easy to create another “crew” so all they were Original Character? As it is now, there are old trekkies against the new characterization and new fans (or S/U of the old generation) excited: the fandom is basically split in two. We’re not talking about “95% yeah! 5% no!” or “95% no! 5% yeahhh!”, and that kinda suck: who should the writer/producer blink to? The old trekkies, the K/S shippers, the S/U, the anti-S/U?

Oh, and by the way, I quote Albukirky: the poll is basically pro-S/U itself, with three answer that are basically “yes”. There should have been at least a “I don’t mind it” and a “I’m not overly against it but if they remove it I’d be happier”. Like this there are 42% against and all the other basically pro the ship – what ifthe 18% of “A little Spock/Uhura” voted that only because their not angry anti-S/U but not really eager to see them too and haven’t the right answer to choose? That would easily make 50+% against the pairing.

I don’t even know why I feel so bad since we’re talking about *fictional* characters: we should all spend all this time in something more “real life”. -.-”

330. Disinvited - September 19, 2010

#329. Hakka observed “Nimoy probably really knows, since Spock IS him…”

While I wouldn’t hesitate to send many different accolades to Mr. Nimoy for his many talents – the most precious to me being how he can find something in the most insignificant of b-movie scripts to build an interesting and entertaining performance – I definitely wouldn’t go so far as to claim that the Spock character is totally his one-man-show.

Nimoy definitely knows how to act, direct and photograph Spock, but when it comes to writing the character…well let’s just say that writing Trek scripts is not his forte. He definitely has NOT demonstrated a clear and consistent vision with respect to the Spock narrative in the past.. After the series cancellation, he wrote I AM NOT SPOCK, and lobbied numerous times to have him killed. Then, when he finally got what he wanted, he changed his mind and is ultimately responsible for derailing Harve’s first chapter that was TWoK.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Nimoy and his Spock, but it was all so unnecessary.

Then to cap the waffling he wrote I AM SPOCK.

I definitely see him as a significant piece of the pie, but the claim that seems to be saying that he alone is responsible for the creation of the character, Spock, and that Sturgeon, Fontana, Roddenberry, etc. were completely redundant and unnecessary, well, I just find that absurd.

Perhaps, I could best express this by saying that I agree with the Academy’s decision that Nimoy did not deserve an acknowledgement for 2009′s Oscar.

331. Albukirky - September 23, 2010

I agree with a comment above: This isn’t TOS.

How very true, we are supposed to accept the fact that since this is an AU, the characters should not be expected to be exact to their Prime Timeline counterparts…I am FINE with that fact..

Until I realised ONE thing:

The event that precipitates the change in Time occurs when Nero’s ship ‘accidentally’ arrived that leads to the destruction of the Kelvin and the premature(?) birth of Kirk since he was supposed to be born in Iowa. Naturally, the event would *DIRECTLY* influence the lives of all the people on board the Kelvin but *LOGICALLY* not so much others who were not.

Spock was supposedly have been born approximately 2 years *earlier* than Kirk…the rest of the bridge crew Uhura, McCoy etc…not really mentioned but I would assumed that their births and their lives were not directly affected by the incident in the movie (the writers after all made no effort to mention such).

After the Kelvin event, Nero and his ship ‘disappeared’ never to be heard again for a while…

So Spock logically should not have changed so much from his counterpart since he was born and raised in Vulcan with Vulcan disciplines…He was an anomaly, yes, he was…he was that even in the Prime Universe because of his heritage. Otherwise, he still chose to live in the Vulcan way.

To quote Sylvia: He chose to be more Human since he did not purge his emotions (in 2009).

I disagree; the filmmakers DID NOT make any effort to explain this fact either despite his erratic behaviour (which someone quoted as’in a constant state of Ponn Farr)…and Spock Prime have not purged his either. He didn’t undergo Kolinahr in TOS…he tried to in The Motion Picture, and failed because of Kirk…he perceived Kirk’s thoughts in his. So you see, the Prime Spock did not purge his emotions but he still chose to be more Vulcan.

And unless Uhura’s birth/life was *DIRECTLY* related to the Nero time-changing incident that lead her to undergo a significant change in characteristics…she would grow up to be no different from her TOS counterpart too.

Therefore, their OOCness in the movie was unexplainable…at least to me…Kirk I could understand – his *WHOLE* birth and upbringing was changed and without a proper Father figure to guide him and with an absent Mother (presumably), it’s no wonder he grew up a delinquent.

After all, the rest seemed pretty much the same as their previous selves: Bones, Chekov, Sulu and to a certain extent Scotty too. Wouldn’t the whole Nero ‘thing’ changed them too like what happened to Spock and Uhura?

But they seemed pretty much unchanged.

This is not related to the thread but I just have to mention it:
The movie made Vulcans look too helpless. For a race that is FAR advanced than Human (for one thing they discovered the warp capability first) and have the best scientific minds in the galaxy: the way the filmmakers portrayed them to just watch and DO NOTHING (apart from calling Starfleet for help) as their planet was destroyed was unbelievable…they are able to defend themselves…even to the bitter end…please check their capabilities in Memory Alpha.

Back to the thread topic; I have heard many mentions about Roddenberry’s intentions for a Spock/Uhura relationship – I for one would love to see the *exact* quote and points of reference…

I could do it for K/S straight away: T’HY’LA for example and the novelisation of The Motion Picture written by Roddenberry himself and other various quotes from his interviews.

Again, I am OKAY with the S/U thing…until people started harping that it is CANON in TOS. Scotty and Uhura was eventually CANON in the Prime Universe just so you know.

Please do not compare Uhura and Amanda. The latter chose to live in Vulcan to be with her husband and even adopted the Vulcan culture. Uhura seemingly (from the movie) was intending to do no such thing.

Also PLEASE do not pull the anti-feminist/racism card: I am neither. I am Female and Asian…

And Hakka dear: EXACTLY, the poll was ABSOLUTELY biased if you look at it LOGICALLY…From the statistics you could see 75% of it is for S/U and only 25% against it…it was biased from the beginning. And pity because from many of the comments above they mentioned that they only chose the C option because they would like the relationship to be TERMINATED in a classy manner instead of just ignoring it completely.

I for one would be interested to see how they would try to ‘develop’ the closeness between Kirk and Spock in the next movie. My only wish is that they prevented the dreaded ‘love-triangle’ plot between K/S/U ala Twilight in Space or allow S/U to go all Ponn Farr and have children on the Enterprise.

The fact that the movie release was changed from 2011 to 2012 itself was pretty telling…

332. Aurore - September 29, 2010

“Also PLEASE do not pull the anti-feminist/racism card: I am neither”. If you say so.I believe you.

333. Albukirky - October 3, 2010

@Aurore

Thank you. I appreciate it.

334. Aurore - October 3, 2010

Please,do not mention it.And I mean it.

335. capri - October 17, 2010

Heck yeah! Keep these two together! Their dynamic is one of the best re-imaginings of the new movie. I don’t blame Zach and Zoe for wanting to keep the relationship going. They look great together!

336. EMMA m - November 12, 2010

This pairing was awesome. the original series finally had something to hook me in. I am a romantic, so sue me!
But seriously though, who wants everything to stay the same? NOT ME!!! it was brilliant! Just brilliant, the chemistry was there! IT BROUGHT ME TO SEE THE MOVIE 5 TIMES IN THEATERS!! and buy the movie!!!!! without the romance, i would not have felt that way!

337. EMMA m - November 12, 2010

Oh and, i read A WHOLE CRAP LOAD of fanfictions, including an awesome one found here:
http://yahtzee63.livejournal.com/408400.html

338. EMMA m - November 12, 2010

well, it seems MOST people want spock and Uhura by about 60% but we are undecided as to HOW MUCH (some a little, others alot!)

YAY!!!

some people (*hem* 40% haters *hem*) just are stuck in the old ways

339. EMMA m - November 12, 2010

this is an excellent post i found on Peterdavid.net
it says alot for us fans

JPT010 says:
June 3, 2009 at 12:36 am

A lot of people are missing so many details of what this relationship means in the context of the movie, as well as TOS canon. I’m surprised that more people don’t know that Gene Roddenberry himself wanted this relationship from the get go. But with it being the 60’s and what not (racism, prejudice, etc)…well. They didn’t even want Nichelle Nicholes on the show, so this relationship never had a chance in TOS. They did keep subtleties of the relationship in tact as has been mentioned in the episodes “Man Trap”, and “Charlie X”. But people are forgetting other episodes as well. Such as when Spock reacts to Nomad when he wipes out Uhura’s memory. He became very agitated when Nomad referred to her as a “unit”. Spocks reply: that “unit” is a woman. In “Space Seed” when one of Khan’s henchmen slaps Uhura for not abeying his orders; look at who’s the first one to jump up with Bones a close second. Spock was jumping to her defense, and it’s important to note that he was in full Spock mode by then (as well as the aforementioned episodes). Also the episode “Is There in Truth No Beauty?”. The Madusen ambassador addresses three of the crew members as Spock knows them:

Spock: This is delightful! I know you! All of you!

James Kirk, captain and friend for many years.

And Leonard McCoy [affectionate laughter], also of long acquaintance.

And Uhura, whose name means “freedom.” She walks in beauty like the night.

McCoy: [to Kirk] That’s not Spock!

Spock: Are you surprised to find that I’ve read Byron, doctor?

The Medusen was addressing each relationship as Spock see’s these individuals. So now we know that he reads poetry in regards to her.

The other episode(s) is “The Immunity Syndrome”. When Uhura almost faints because of a high pitched frequency that resonates all over the ship causing multiple crewmates to become ill; look at who grabs her to take her to her seat. Spock is so concerned, that after he sits her down (after her brief conversation with the captain), that he stands over her for a few seconds with much concern in his face. In another episode “Who Mournes for Adonais” I believe; Uhura is asked by Spock to do some repairs to the communications console. Spock tells her that he can think of no one more qualified to do the job than her. This is very high praise coming from a Vulcan. There are multiple instances all throughout the series where is this relationship is definitely canon; but people obviously missed it.

Fast forward to this new Star Trek……..

Let’s start with the reassignment of Uhura from the Faragut to the Enterprise. This is where you first get the knowledge that this is a mutual attraction relationship in some form. Look at Spocks face when he turns to face her when she states:

Uhura: Where you were well aware of my desires to serve on the Enterprise; I’m assigned to the Farragut?

(Hint no.1: She’s very angry, and he’s “well aware” of what she wants to do with her career).

Spock: “It was an attempt to…….. (he stopped talking and paused to keep the passing crewman from hearing their converstion. He breaks eye contact with Uhura until the crewmen passes)…..avoid the appearance of favoritism”. The favoritism concern could only mean that he has displayed too much emotion regarding her if other people know that he “favors” her. But she refuses to be punished for his favoritism/attraction. She is the best in her field so she “deserves” to be put on the best ship.

Uhura: “No; I’m assigned to the Enterprise”.

Spock behaved like the typical human male in that he didn’t want to upset his woman. So he caves in. He obviously has some feelings about Uhura that transends his Vulcan stoicism.

*Next: When Kirk, McCoy, and Uhura runs on the bridge to see what Kirk is about to reveil regarding the lightening storm in space; Spock is not going for Kirk’s story until Uhura gets involved. Look how long he stares in her direction before his gaze rejoins Kirk and Captian Pike in the discussion. He also takes the opportunity to reiterate to Capt. Pike how good she is as a Xenolingist.

*Uhura leaves her station to inquire of Spock where he’s going when he tells her he’s beaming to Vulcan to rescue his parents and the council. In the mist of the turmoil, he actually pauses to explain to her what his intensions are. Look at her eyes as the turbolift doors close.

*After Vulcan is destroyed, Uhura is staring at him because she knows he is hurting. When she follows him to the turbolift, we get the first sure fire knowledge of what’s going on between them for those who didn’t catch the other stuff beforehand. This wasn’t their first kiss. Look at him the second time she kisses him. It is actually him that leans into her and prolongs the kiss as she’s pulling away.

*After the fight scene with Spock and Kirk (look at her face when that fight is going on, and the compassion she displays as she follows him to the door. Look at him when he pauses to look at her), and Spock rejoins everyone on the bridge. When he states “also my mother was human (he’s looking at everyone when he say’s this), which means earth is the only home I have left”. Right when he says “earth is the only home I have left, he pulls his eyes to her. That’s right folks; he’s picked a mate. He plans on making earth his home with her. The transporter room scene is self explanatory. He knows he may not come back (even though he reassures her that he will), so why not at least let her know something of how he feels? Also; look at the way they bring their forheads together. This seems to be some kind of bonding action between them. His voice is more tender and loving in this scene, and he is most definitely kissing her back. Also we can not forget the scene where he thought he wasn’t going to make it back. In that instance he didn’t say Jim tell my father……….. he said “please” tell lieutenant Uhura……….. He was not going to let the woman he loves and cares deeply about not know of his feelings as I’m sure part of his turmoil regarding his mother’s death is that he most likely never told his mother these words, (and in his mind), she died without knowing. He was not going to take that chance with Uhura.

This is a deep relationship between the two characters. I think it’s a great idea, and it adds so much depth, complexity, and beauty to these characters. Spock and Uhura’s character’s always deserved more than what has been done with them previously, and I hope Abrams and co. moves forward with this relationship.

340. Emma - November 13, 2010

Major Lee “TIBERIUS” Skywalker, Battlestar Serenity ( posted April 23, 2010)
I disagree, i think that it would be “illogical” given the condition of Vulcan race to DENY ANY vulcan blood to refuse itself into creating the race anew again. Thus, i do not believe they would deny spock marrying another vulcan to mate.

But I want spock and uhura!!!!!!!!!!!!

341. Emma - November 13, 2010

p.s.
Im so surprised at people saying her relationship with spock typecast-ed her to merely his love interest, she seemed to me to be a tough, bad-ass strong female capable of much more than that! SHE REJECTED KIRK!!! Remember though, the movie is only like a hundred minutes long! they have to focus on the important material, the story, not how smart and awesome one character is! CLEARLY she is an intelligent woman!

342. TMB - January 8, 2011

I thought the relationship was nice, subtle, and sweet. It was secondary. Uhura was not just the girlfriend she was smart, good at her job, determined. They didn’t over emphasize it. I liked it. It was a quiet sexy to me. Ok to pursue for sequel. The 2 actors had nice chemistry. Subtle is always the best sexy. Now pon farr is that what is referred to as mind melting? Anyway they don’t have to get that deep with it. Save that for part 5 or 6 lol. JJ Abrams is smart…he’ll know how to play it.

343. Erika - February 2, 2011

I really enjoyed the relationship. Hopefully they keep it going in the sequel. I’m just surprised at how many people are opposed to the idea…

344. Jordan - March 2, 2011

I really hope they continue the relationship. I want to see where it goes from here. It seems most of the people opposed to it are long time TOS fans. I myself am a TOS fan (been watching it since I was a kid). But I see nothing wrong with it. The relationship didn’t take away from the plot. Plus, the movie is not suppose to be an exact replica of TOS. Obviously JJ Abrams was trying to go about the movie differently. ST XI has attracted the younger audience + the already established ST audience. Which is twice the money, fans, and supporters.

I mean think about it… At least it’s Uhura (who is intelligent, determined, and attractive) instead of some random chick who is not the slightest bit smart or is some sex pot, right? I’m just saying Hollywood could have picked someone way worse. Spock & Uhura are great looking together and have great on-screen chemistry.

-Jordan LLAP \\//_

345. Mary - March 3, 2011

Ever since I started watching TOS, I’ve been convinced that Spock and Uhura dig each other and are perfect for each other.
Nurse Chapel is one of the shittiest, most worthless characters on the show. Uhura is the best woman character; she is smart and capable, and Spock respects her. Nurse Chapel just sucks.

346. Mark - April 18, 2011

I don’t mind a little of it, as long as it doesn’t overshadow the main plot. I’m not really for or against it too much.

Seems to me that Uhura and Spock in the film share similar sensibilities and intelligence, and we know they have at least one common interest – xenolinguistics… But for me there was just one very big problem with having them together. He’s her instructor at the Academy, she’s his student, and then later on he’s her superior officer. It’s inappropriate and almost certainly against Starfleet regulations with good reason – avoidance of favouritism, personal issues cropping up during military missions, not to mention of course being emotionally compromised (oh the irony, since Kirk used the emotionally compromised issue to take command from Spock in a pretty key plot point in the film). Uhura seems like a bit of rebel when it suits her, so I can see her going for it anyways, but Spock would never go for it! He would be well aware of any such regulations and the reasoning behind them, and for him it would just be way too unprofessional. I just can’t see him being an instructor at the Academy and thinking that starting an illicit relationship with one of his students (who then badgers him into changing her ship assignment) would be a good idea.

347. HAL.9000 - May 21, 2011

You know, the whole Spock/Uhura romance is so out in left field that it completely killed the Star Trek movie for me. Spock may as well be all human then but just happens to look Vulcan.

I wont be watching any sequels because of this. It’s just weird and really off canon and basically just catering to the crowd looking for gratuitous sex in movies these days. Same with the scene with Kirk and that green chick. She looked and sounded like some white girl in green dye. Nothing alien about her. Way to kill the movie guys.

Next you’ll be telling me that Lois Lane is an unwed mother and a slut or that Darth Vader built C-3PO.

Oh wait…

348. cheryl - June 10, 2011

I am totally againat s/u because of the fact that imho it takes away from the essential kirk/spock friendship. It was platonic love between these two – they would die for each other. Spock was totally devoted to Kirk and vice versa. How can this be if he is in a permanent r/hip with Uhura.

Kirk knew he had Spocks total loyalty . How can he be sure of this with S/U. They were the single most importany r/ship in each others live. It was epic and daring to show love bt two men. It seem nu trek has taken a great leap BACKWARDS, ie its too hard to show love bt two men -lets just replace Kirk with Uhura. I do not mind seeing more Uhura in the next movie but as a colleague/friend not lover. TOS and films have lasted for 40 years because of the unique dynamic bt Kirk and Spock(and to a lesser Mccoy)

To carry on S/U but make it a subplot does not work. Because in this case one is saying S/K friendship is more important than romantic love which is wrong. To bring it more to the fore which is how a serious love r/ship should be treated then makes it the S and U story and makes the friendship bt K and S a very poor second. To make the r/ship bt S ans K slightly ambigious is much more daring and less conventional. But it was platonic love between so two men -that is canon and should not be treated otherwise in nu trek.

349. Jennifer Keller - June 23, 2011

I love them together and I believe they are perfect for eachothet.
Haters can hate, but it would be a huge mistake to break them up.
I know ‘to each his/her own [opinion]‘, but I think Uhura is helping
Spock with te death of his mother, an he seems to appreciate her help.
Nyota is doing what she can for him, and that is really what he needed
After the destruction of Vulcan. I vote MORE SPUHURA!!’

350. LtRedMageAtl - September 18, 2011

Im so tired of so called Trek purists and haters railing against Spock/Uhura. I’m a lover of the TOS and so is my Mom and we both liked Spock better. Honestly while Kirk was looking cool and sweet talking and banging every thing classified as female across the galaxy, Spock was who held that ship together. And whenever he had a chance at love it always got snatched from him (he was drugged, or some chick from 5000 years ago thats already dead when he returned to the present, William Shatner’s ego said it had to be Kirk to have the first interracial kiss on TV) Logical or not Vulcan need love too or mating. Why cant he have someone that supports him, strengthens him and loves him for who he is human side and all. Uhura would do that if given the chance and the friendship between him and Kirk would not be affected. And I agree with a poster Zach and Zoe look great together.
But haters and critics gonna hate

351. aspasia - October 4, 2011

Spock and Uhura were beautiful together in that film. As I recall, Vulcans did not want to mate with him because he was half human in the original show. His mate refused him and almost got him and Kirk killed in the process.

Let him find happiness with Uhura. It is a new timeline people.

352. jeerz - November 5, 2011

I don’t get it why people really think “Uhura-love” is illogical. Spock is half-human. And he has human feelings.

353. Denny - January 24, 2012

S/U Forever! When I watched the movie my first thoughts were its about time a woc was the love interest in a Hollywood film. Needs to happen more often. However I think the romane wa subtle enough in the moive. Its an alternate reality so anything goes, its not the end of the orginal timeline that still exists somewhere out there. As for Spock ooc ness I put that down to the butterfly effect from Nero’s appearance. Who knows what the political and cultural ramifactions were for Vulcan/Human relations when he showed with his Romulan self? Anyway roll on the next movie, hope they keep the S/U romance going but leave it in the background.

354. Kirk Castello - January 25, 2012

I sincerely hated S/U in the movie. It not only took away from Nyota’s character but it seemed like Spock wasn’t connecting as well with Kirk because of it. I mean it’s no secret that Uhura pretty much has no respect for Kirk in the first place.

Another thing is people talk about how much chemistry Spock and Nyota had in the movie. I actually found most of the scenes distasteful. We had these great scene were we could focus on Spock and Kirk, but then suddenly Spock makes some off-handed comment about Uhura and the mood is ruined.

I know this isn’t TOS, but in the Original Series Kirk and Spock had millions time more chemistry then Spock and Uhura ever had. If I remember correctly, one of the times when Nyota propositioned Spock he shot her down faster than she could say “But it’s logical??”

I would be very disappointed if Spock/Uhura continued to live. That was one of the nice things about TOS, that none of the Characters had any permanent ties. But that was a TV show, this is a movie again.

I don’t believe in Spock/Chapel either. I mean the women only joined Starfleet to find her long lost husband. Why would she need Spock.

355. Tazzeh - February 5, 2012

Yes Gene originally wanted this couple to happen BUT IT DIDN’T AND DOES NOT NEED TO HAPPEN ANYMORE.
I mean he also originally wanted Spock to be red skinned and have a forked tail but THAT didn’t happen either!
Saldana needs to worry about finding a way to really HONOR the role Nichelle set up instead of a stupid romantic subplot,
Saldana: you really sound like you JUST want more screen time. Cut it out!
@354: I AGREE!

356. Thunderwolf - February 8, 2012

I didn’t like the whole pairing of S/U. I think the scenes with the two of them seemed more forced than anything else. As others have stated the focus on this pairing took away focus on the special friendship between S/K/M. I’m a woman yet I enjoyed that special trinity that made the Enterprise in TOS so strong. It’s why I had a hard time watching later series, and stopped, because a friendship of that kind wasn’t there.

I find it odd that no one mentions the episode Amok Time and all the tensions that came from that. It was S/K/M and the friendship between the three of them that really guided what happened throughout the whole episode. I mean who can forget Spock’s reaction when he realizes he hadn’t killed Kirk.

I think the last scene between Spock and Spock Prime would have had more impact had an intended scene not been written out. Originally, the scene was to have Spock Prime proving to Spock that he would have an epic friendship with Kirk if he stays with him. How he would have done that he was to give Spock a locket that Kirk had given him before he left on his ill-fated trip while Spock was to go someplace else. The locket contained a holovideo of Kirk wishing Spock good-luck and that he’[ll miss him. Spock Prime was to leave the locket with him as a reminder to stay with Kirk.

I’m hoping that the scenes with S/U were there to act as someone offering comfort to Spock after everything that happened rather than romance. In that essence the powerful friendship between S/K/M still has a chance to develop.

357. Thunderwolf - February 9, 2012

I should explain that the only reason why the scene had been written out was that Shatner at the time could not be there for filming as he was in contract for Boston Legal. Otherwise the scene would have been filmed.

And another powerful scene was not mentioned, who could forget the end of The Wrath of Khan? It was Jim who was there at the end and it was to Jim that Spock spoke his final heartfelt words. Later on it was Jim who sacrificed his beloved Enterprise for Spock.

358. Hilde - February 10, 2012

Please no Uhura and Spock relationship. If you look at the Original Series it’s so way out of character!

359. Maia - February 15, 2012

Please don’t keep it, if anyone has seen the original series they would see completely how irrelevant their relationship is. Not to mention it wouldn’t make sense in regards to spock in the future, who as we saw in the show had no interest in sexual orientation (or sex in general) outside of pon farr and it’s not like him and Uhura ever showed affection for eachother in TOS, so why would they have this relationship unless it was ended? Stop it before it goes too far and you completely loose sight of who and what Spock is and stands for.

360. Sybok - February 16, 2012

I say YES to Spock/Uhura.

I’m no newbie to the fandom (my favourite show is and always will be TOS) and I’m no shipper for any pairing!
But Spock and Uhura just make sense in the new ST Universe.

361. Thunderwolf - February 21, 2012

If rumors hold true, the next movie will have Khan as the villain. I wouldn’t want the movie to be bogged down with scenes depicting S/U making out. I still can’t see the character of Spock being that affectionate in front of others as his Vulcan upbringing would have forbidden it. To then use scenes that take place outside of the main action wouldn’t work as it would look like they were placed there simply to have “love sequences” that would have no bearing on the outcome of the plot.

Khan was the most dangerous enemy that Kirk and his crew faced during their first five-year mission and proved to be just as dangerous when he returned. The most powerful scene of all time came from the Wrath of Khan. And it started with McCoy calling to Kirk telling him to get down to engineering.

I can’t wait to see how the epic friendship between S/K/M continues in this next movie and hope it comes with plenty of interaction between the three of them.

362. RC95 - March 3, 2012

La! I am a huge fan of Zoe Saldana, but the chemistry between herself and Zachary Quinto was seriously lacking. Go figure; he’s gay. Not that that’s a bad thing…it’s a really good thing.

I have been overtaken by the Spirk Fever, and the amazing presence of Quinto and Pine in the 2009 movie really cemented this feeling. There are so many moments in that film that had the potential to turn into – just – that – little – bit – more, but didn’t. Of course, I highly doubt that the writers would put Spock and Kirk into any sort of romantic situation, apart from this disastrous ‘love triangle’ – honestly, the only way to resolve this triangle and save the lives of many Trekkies is by getting Uhura out of it.

So, I voted against more Spock/Uhura, even though it probably has already been established further in the new movie, if the leaked photo has anything to say about that. *grumble*. I will endeavour to enjoy the next movie, assuming I survive to see it (XD), and ship Spirk anyway.

But, seriously, hopefully the writers and directors and producers get some sense and knock this obstacle of a relationship out of the way. Now, march onto fanfiction to alleviate some of my fears…

363. Thunderwolf - March 5, 2012

To RC95 – Have you seen lately what’s happened in the new IDW Star Trek comic books? The relationship between Spock and Uhura is showing some strain in that Uhura is expecting Spock to be all broken up about the events in the movie, and he’s already moved on like his Vulcan upbringing taught him to do. She’s frustrated because I think she expected him to be a wreck (probably so she can help him through it) and he’s just being Spock. I’m wondering if they’ll follow the cues from the comic books.

BTW – I know the titles of really great fanfiction by several talented writers. So I know what you mean about reading fanfiction.

364. RC95 - March 10, 2012

To Thunderwolf; I must admit my ignorance there, as I do not follow the comic series nor the novelisations of the movie. Yeah, I probably should…and I’m glad there’s ‘touble in paradise’! They just don’t work well together in my opinion.

My main point was, I hope the filmmakers decide to scrap the couple. They don’t have to go so far as to kill off Uhura, but just, ya’know…tone it down. A lot. And add a few more Spirk bits. ‘Cause that would be cool…XD.

My site of choice is fanfiction.net, and I am constantly on it, obsessing over them. I’m pretty sure I’ve read most of the fics on the site, two or three times over (XD), and I’m going through incomplete ones now. It’s enough…for now. XD.

Thanks, Thunderwolf!

365. Thunderwolf - March 11, 2012

Hey, np! And I’ve been to that website. I have plenty of favorites there. There are some truly talented writers in that site. Maybe if Abrams read a few of them he’d get some ideas.

366. Cat - March 20, 2012

Why do so many people hate the Idea of Spock being in love , he is half human . Maby you all hate the idea that the person he is in love with is black. The more things change the more they stay the same.

367. Maia - March 22, 2012

To cat, no one hates it persay, they just don’t want him to be so horribly respresented. This goes as far as demeaning in my opinion, he has time and time again expressed a general disinterest in such things and if he were to feel comfortable enough to forsake vulcan pride for so much as a kiss, it would be with kirk, I mean… ahhh, as well he kisses with his hands.

368. HatersGonnaHateButIt'sGettingAbitRidiculous - March 23, 2012

I’ve read most of the comments and i have to agree with 339. EMMA m – November 12, 2010 that was spot on!

I have absolutely no problem with the Spock and Uhura’s relationship. After all it was in the background and it was handled tastefully by the writers. I may criticize other things in the movie that felt lame but they’re not one of them honestly (*my biggest issue is Spock-Prime. I don’t even know where to start pointing up the inconsistencies and cheesiness of that character and the way they developed the whole thing. I swear in the scene when current Spock met him I can imagining his younger brain thinking of him being a senile version of himself. That would be in character for logical Spock )

These two are one of the most subtle and tender couples I ever watched. It’s just incredible how the writers and the actors were able to convey intimacy in scenes that lasted so little and that weren’t overly sexual by any means. It feels real. And usually i’m against relationships that happened off screen but in their case it worked so well. I definitely saw the clues one by one before the turbolift scene and had a bit of fun wondering about them a bit and if i were imagining things of something was happening there LOL The tease with Kirk was also priceless. Spock got the girl. Kirk couldn’t look more “OMG i lost it to a vulcan wtf” when he heard him calling her with by first name.. the name he never managed to get from her. HA! (i liked the implied metaphor, sorta, in the first name thingy. )
I loved their scenes and i love how the relationship was showed. It’s unique and, star wars fans will hate me for saying it, can seriously give a run for their money to both Han/Leila and (especially) Anakin/Padme .
This is exactly how romance should be developed in this kind of movies. They have so much potential.

I don’t get why the writers should give it up one of their most successful idea and cave to the vocal minority aka the haters. Many fans even read this site, at all. Look at other sites and all the people that join S/U communities. At fanfictions.net they rival Kirk/Spock (difference is that the latter has fanfictions about the friendship too) and we have only one movie and few scenes.
The fandom response just as the media was generally huge and pretty positive for the most part. Many acknowledged that since this a reboot the writers needed to create something that was their own idea, something that will make people remember this ST as their product and not just a copy of a story written by other people. You have no idea about how this is important.
And you can’t argue that they didn’t “win” here because they clearly did (and i bet that they appreciate the vocal haters just as much as the vocal fans. Again they win). Hell, the simpsons already made a parody of S/U kiss including it in a list of some iconic movie kisses. It’s epic win. LOL

The arguments i read against S/U don’t make so much sense to me. We’re all biased for sure that’s why all the arguments from both parts can be demolished by someone who has the time and energy to support their argument and their personal agenda (it being hate or love for the couple, the first ones depending on multiple reasons that go from shipping preferences or simple a matter of taste. Some people don’t like romance regardless and it’s their prerogative. Some like it and it’s their prerogative too)
Personally I always thought that if Spock had to get a love interest Uhura was the one that made the most sense. I can see him falling for someone like her. The have some things in common, she’s a nerd like him and even the movie itself made it pretty clear, at least to me, that she does separate her job from her relationship with Spock. They both can act professionally when they’re working, what happens when they’re alone in their quarters it’s their business.

The difference between TOS and this new universe is that THIS Spock got a chance that old Spock never got, most likely. While i don’t think that Uhura can take something away from the K/S/M friendship i genuinely think that in the original story Kirk took something away from Spock’s character development. Everything was too focused on that friendship alone, the characters couldn’t have other important relationships beyond that.
I’m really against this insane (and as cheesy as any romance) idea that a person must be defined only by his/her friend.
Hence the whole purpose about an alternative universe is to develop “what if” factors. I strongly believe in the phrase “we make our own destiny”. Life is a matter of coincidences. You change a detail and something may happen or not happen. Something that wasn’t allowed to happen into one reality may happen into another. What’s the purpose of alternative realities if they’re all the same? the world “alternative” literally means: “Existing outside traditional or established institutions or systems” – “different; other” – “different possibilities”. S/U totally fit with that, along with other changes made in the movie.
In this life he met her and started a relationship with her before he met Kirk. In the other version it makes sense that the story became so focused on the trio that, realistic or not (to me it wasn’t. But then the origin ST is melodrama to its finest but we still like it) their lives revolved only around that friendship. In this timeline it makes sense that both Spock and Kirk are allowed to have other relationships too… being a romantic one (Uhura) or just friendship (McCoy. I think that in this universe their friendship is stronger, at least for now, than the possible K/S friendship).

Maybe it’s because of the actors and the style too but I think that we should consider this version a separate entity from the other one and don’t expect to see the same exact storyline. We should expect to see an alternative universe with interesting twists that didn’t happen or happened differently in the other reality. And if you don’t like this you can still like the other. No one will take that one from you.

Back on S/U: The original Spock/Uhura (the actors of course) love them (Nimoy i just want to kiss you for the “i’m jealous of Zacharary” comment. You’re just too cute and funny LOL). The current actors that play them love them and support them. The original creator of the series had though of putting them but couldn’t do that because of the network and racism at the same.
And (maybe Bob Orci can confirm this or not. If i’m not wrong he said that here somewhere) apparently JJ Abrams loves them too and as i said above i can totally understand why and why the writers felt compelled to add this touch. And that’s all.

just wanted to add: I feel that you can enjoy the movie even if you don’t like them. I think that they will remain in the background and i’m ok with it.

369. HatersGonnaHateButIt'sGettingAbitRidiculous - March 23, 2012

Ps: i see that someone interpreted the scenes between S/U in the comics differently compared to me
My opinion is that the comics, mainly the scene when they’re in bed, just show a mature relationship with its good times (kisses, sex, holding hands, her saving him) and its a bit more rocky times. They’re not teens they’re adult people and can handle a conversation where they have different opinions. It isn’t even a fight. She’s just worried about him because she knows him well enough to notice things that the others might not see in that moment and she knows that he’s still grieving about what happened but he’s pretending that everything is ok and this is not sane for him. He’s acting a bit irrational so her concern is justified and makes totally sense for someone who is supposed to have a relationship with his person that goes beyond sex (i say that just because in the comic it’s implied that they have that talk after some quality time together ;) ) . The way Spock answered also tells that Nyota is too perceptive but he’s not ready to admit that she’s right and he has to handle his grief in some way. Her bringing the topic up is a sane thing and that’s what it means having a relationship. In a way the writer is simply using her and their relationship to address an issue that the other characters can’t. The others can’t have this kind of talk with him yet and they may not notice things in his behavior that she can notice because she knows him better than them and from a longer time.

370. Marlucci - March 28, 2012

Maia, what you wrote is completely non-sense. Spock had no interest in sex?? Are you sure you watched the same Original series i did? Do you remember “All of our Yesterdays” (3×23)? The guy fell in love with Zarabeth (and I love that episode!), they even had sex! I found this information in an interview with Mariette Hartley, the actress who played Zarabeth. I didn’t know that. I recently rewatched most of the episodes from TOS and found interesting the chemistry between Nimoy and Nichols in some scenes (they had more chemistry than Zoe and Zack, in my opinion). They had great moments and this idea of pairing them up is not totaly insane, if you consider that Spock was emotionally committed at that moment.
I agree, this romance must continue.

371. Frank - March 28, 2012

END IT! Get rid of that ridiculous thing that they tried to call a romance! The only reason they were put together was because of homophobic writers trying to lead away from the REAL couple that Roddenberry created himself! Anyone with half a brain cell will know who I’m taking about. Seriously, bring out the couple that was in TOS and get rid of the monstrosity that is Spock/Uhura.

372. Jemini - March 31, 2012

371: and here we go again with slash fans calling the writers homophobic because they didn’t make their fanfictions canon. Lame argument is lame.

———————

371: and here we go again with slash fans calling the writers homophobic because they didn’t make their fanfictions canon. Lame argument is lame.
______________________

The S/U couple is one of the few things that give ME a reason to watch these movies.
I’ve already watched the episodes from TOS and every possible movie. It’s now old like the original actors and there’s nothing to add. I’m not interested about a remake of another thing.
I enjoy the reboot because it’s ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE with different actors and younger characters and here possibilities only hinted in the original series can be explored. S/U is one of them.

I’ve read some of the other comments I wanted to comment on something.
1) Spock didn’t get close to Uhura just because he needed a hug and he was emotionally compromised . Many seems to miss this point and NO the writers never said that S/U were together ONLY because he needed a hug. It’s the ONE comment that the “non-fans” of the couple simply adore to use as an excuse to downplay S/U and make it seems that the writers are incredibly shallow (not necessarily in this order).
It was one of the factors in their decision (and made perfect sense) but obviously not the only one. Some people are fixated on that phrase alone ignoring when they said, for example, that the relationship does fit with Spock’s arc and the fact that just like his father he’s capable of loving a human woman and he has a human side too. After he didn’t pursue Kolinahr Spock may realize that he’s grateful to “feel” and to have feelings he just needs to find a balance between vulcan and human side because he’s ultimately BOTH.

2) “S/U got together only because he was emotionally compromised”
….Except they were already a couple before that event.
I can’t believe that some people here still don’t understand that Spock and Uhura were an item BEFORE the destruction of vulcan.
If watching the movie itself didn’t make it obvious enough here some parts copied and pasted directly from the script and the novelization of the movie.

- From the movie script, turbolift scene:
“Spock and Uhura. Silence hangs. She glances over, wanting to say so much, but not to invade what must be the worst moment of his life. He looks at her, with kind eyes. And Uhura does something odd — she STOPS the lift. Spock looks over as she wordlessly reaches out and puts her arms around him. Just holding him. Kissing his face with utter tenderness and comfort, which he lets her do… and we realize, this is why the intimacy before — this is their secret…

what’s their secret? That they’re buddies? That they’re fans of pushing daisies and hope for Ned and Chuck to finally touch each other without her getting killed?

- The book makes it even more clear:
“They stood like that for a moment, until Uhura did something any other member of the crew would have found odd—but not out of character. Reaching out, she thumbed the Stop on the lift.
It immediately came to a halt between decks. Then she leaned forward, put both arms around him, and pressed her lips against his. Though mixed with sorrow and regret, no one would have mistaken it for a platonic kiss. In a manner plainly half-human, half-Vulcan, Spock responded. In a fashion sufficiently straightforward to indicate that he had done so before.

- From the hangar scene that in the movie is itself the first clue of their relantionship:
“Time hung suspended between them. Viewing the confrontation from afar, a neutral observer might reasonably have expected the Vulcan commander to upbraid the aggressive cadet, not only for her increasingly aggressive tone but for perceptibly intruding on a superior officer’s personal space. The actual consequences were rather different.
Spock looked away. It was impossible to tell if he did so to avoid the cadet’s laser-like stare—or to see if anyone was watching. His voice also changed, its tenor becoming a touch less professional, a tad less…Vulcan. His reply clearly indicated concern for the agitated young woman standing before him. Concern—and possibly, just possibly, something more. One couldn’t tell from the actual words he spoke, of course.
“I was simply,” he murmured low enough so that no one else could possibly overhear, “trying to avoid the appearance of favoritism.”

- and here what the writers themselves and J.J said in the commentary from the DVD:
re: scene when Uhura undressed in her room and Kirk is hiding under Gaila’s bed:

“it was one of those moments that felt like it really did emphasise Kirk’s love of her, which I think also helped the reversal later, when you discover, you know, that she’s with Spock. So, I love the idea that, you know, you really think you’re playing on the axis of the Kirk/Uhura story. I love the way that Spock, Kirk’s and Uhura’s triangle plays, which is the idea that, you know, in a conventional movie, Kirk is gonna get the girl.
-That’s right. I love her in this shot, by the way. He lost her before the movie even started.
-That’s right.
-But you don’t realize that until later.
-She’s still in play, maybe, in the bar, but at some point in these three years, she’s fallen for Spock

They repeatedly stress the fact that Spock got the girl since the start and Kirk didn’t stand a chance.

- re: turbolift scene
“I just feel like this was the gutsiest thing that we did. Blowing up Vulcan was nothing compared to saying, ‘Spock and Uhura are in love with each other and are having this incredibly intimate relationship.’

- re: transport pad scene
“This is my favourite scene, by the way, I think. Just the idea that in the background they’re, like, basically “I love you. I love you.” Kissy, kissy.
-Well, I think the fact that you blocked it as something that you catch on to, as opposed to sort of cutting to a moment in there -is what makes it great.
I just love that they’re in love

In the end they also say that Uhura is “Happy that her boyfriend is on the ship”

People may perceive things like they want but there’s a point where the interpretation becomes whishfully thinking and denial.
It’s implied that they functioned as a couple regardless and before those circumstances withing the context of the death of his mother. The fact that they’re a couple before that is also important to keep Spock more in character.
His interactions with her speak volumes because he wouldn’t act like that with someone with whom he wasn’t already intimate before even if he loved her.
His last words when he believed that he could die were for her (it doesn’t take a rocket science to understand that he wanted to say ” tell her that i love her” or a similar declaration of love.The fact itself that he asked Jim, a stranger for him, to do that is telling). It would be extremely out of character for them to simply pretend that the relantionship never happened and break up.
It seems to me that some people criticize the writers for their supposed inconsistencies and yet they keep asking for more inconsistencies and nonsense from them. And we’re talking about a couple that was merely in the background you can enjoy the movie even if you despise them so i don’t get the big fuss.

As for the whole instructor/cadet issue: are there any real rules against it? We don’t know when S/U exactly started dating each other. In the hangar scene Uhura said that she WAS (past sense) one of his top students. In the official site of the movie it’s stated that she worked as assistant maybe she and Spock started dating each other only after she graduated and they worked together. We have to assume a lot of things here so i can’t and won’t judge before the writers will make some things more clear.
Anyway I don’t find it so illogical that Spock would start a relantionship with her EVEN if it was against the rules.
I actually think that for someone like Spock the conflict ceases to exist in the moment where he realizes that he has feelings for the woman. As soon as he realizes that he would think that it’s more logical for him to be with her regardless the circumstances they’re in because the alternative (pretending that they don’t have feelings for each other) is more illogical.
Love, as a feeling, can be both logical and illogical for a vulcan man.
It’s illogical because no one can control it. It isn’t rational. If you fall in love you can’t make it stop. The only way you can control it is by accepting it and giving in.
The logical part is that from a vulcan standpoint it’s logical to be with someone that you love. The alternative is to pretend that the feeling doesn’t exist and this means lying to themselves and vulcan people can’t lie or don’t like to do so.
Sarek is an useful example here: originally he said that he had married Amanda because it was logical and then he later admitted that he married her because he loved her. I don’t think that in the first statement he necessarily lied to his son. Of course it was logical for him to marry her because he loved her and she loved him back. It would have been illogical for him to marry a random vulcan lady that he didn’t love when he could marry someone that he loved and who loved him back, someone with whom he could create a more long lasting bond.
Some people also seem to forget that vulcan people do have feelings even more than the humans.
They feel deeply. Spock’s problem and what makes him a complex character is that he’s half human too so he experiences strong feelings because of his vulcan side but since he isn’t 100% vulcan his human side makes it more difficult for him to control those feelings like vulcan people do. It’s like having a strong power without having the ability to use it correctly. He’s overwhelmed by his vulcan feelings mixed with the human ones.
Unlike what some people said I actually think it’s Spock’s vulcan side that can make him love Uhura (and his mother) deeply and maybe more than how we humans are able to (he may just show it differently compared to humans) It’s his human side that may be an obstacle and create conflicts. It’s his human side that may see that relationship as something that goes against the rules. Because we humans are a mess and we’re ruled by all the kind of feelings not just love. We’re insecure, irrational, we’re scared and sometimes we’re scared to love too.
Point is that most likely it was actually easier for Sarek to accept his love for Amanda and give in because he’s 100% vulcan so as soon as he realized that he had feelings for her he was zen about it. Spock’s human side instead may make it more difficult for him at the beginning.
This is only my opinion anyway.

373. Jemini - March 31, 2012

371: and here we go again with slash fans calling the writers homophobic because they didn’t make their fanfictions canon. Lame argument is lame.
______________________

The S/U couple is one of the few things that give ME a reason to watch these movies.
I’ve already watched the episodes from TOS and every possible movie. It’s now old like the original actors and there’s nothing to add. I’m not interested about a remake of another thing.
I enjoy the reboot because it’s ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE with different actors and younger characters and here possibilities only hinted in the original series can be explored. S/U is one of them.

I’ve read some of the other comments I wanted to comment on something.
1) Spock didn’t get close to Uhura just because he needed a hug and he was emotionally compromised . Many seems to miss this point and NO the writers never said that S/U were together ONLY because he needed a hug. It’s the ONE comment that the “non-fans” of the couple simply adore to use as an excuse to downplay S/U and make it seems that the writers are incredibly shallow (not necessarily in this order).
It was one of the factors in their decision (and made perfect sense) but obviously not the only one. Some people are fixated on that phrase alone ignoring when they said, for example, that the relationship does fit with Spock’s arc and the fact that just like his father he’s capable of loving a human woman and he has a human side too. After he didn’t pursue Kolinahr Spock may realize that he’s grateful to “feel” and to have feelings he just needs to find a balance between vulcan and human side because he’s ultimately BOTH.

2) “S/U got together only because he was emotionally compromised”
….Except they were already a couple before that event.
I can’t believe that some people here still don’t understand that Spock and Uhura were an item BEFORE the destruction of vulcan.
If watching the movie itself didn’t make it obvious enough here some parts copied and pasted directly from the script and the novelization of the movie.

- From the movie script, turbolift scene:
“Spock and Uhura. Silence hangs. She glances over, wanting to say so much, but not to invade what must be the worst moment of his life. He looks at her, with kind eyes. And Uhura does something odd — she STOPS the lift. Spock looks over as she wordlessly reaches out and puts her arms around him. Just holding him. Kissing his face with utter tenderness and comfort, which he lets her do… and we realize, this is why the intimacy before — this is their secret…

what’s their secret? That they’re buddies? That they’re fans of pushing daisies and hope for Ned and Chuck to finally touch each other without her getting killed?

- The book makes it even more clear:
“They stood like that for a moment, until Uhura did something any other member of the crew would have found odd—but not out of character. Reaching out, she thumbed the Stop on the lift.
It immediately came to a halt between decks. Then she leaned forward, put both arms around him, and pressed her lips against his. Though mixed with sorrow and regret, no one would have mistaken it for a platonic kiss. In a manner plainly half-human, half-Vulcan, Spock responded. In a fashion sufficiently straightforward to indicate that he had done so before.

- From the hangar scene that in the movie is itself the first clue of their relantionship:
“Time hung suspended between them. Viewing the confrontation from afar, a neutral observer might reasonably have expected the Vulcan commander to upbraid the aggressive cadet, not only for her increasingly aggressive tone but for perceptibly intruding on a superior officer’s personal space. The actual consequences were rather different.
Spock looked away. It was impossible to tell if he did so to avoid the cadet’s laser-like stare—or to see if anyone was watching. His voice also changed, its tenor becoming a touch less professional, a tad less…Vulcan. His reply clearly indicated concern for the agitated young woman standing before him. Concern—and possibly, just possibly, something more. One couldn’t tell from the actual words he spoke, of course.
“I was simply,” he murmured low enough so that no one else could possibly overhear, “trying to avoid the appearance of favoritism.”

- and here what the writers themselves and J.J said in the commentary from the DVD:
re: scene when Uhura undressed in her room and Kirk is hiding under Gaila’s bed:

“it was one of those moments that felt like it really did emphasise Kirk’s love of her, which I think also helped the reversal later, when you discover, you know, that she’s with Spock. So, I love the idea that, you know, you really think you’re playing on the axis of the Kirk/Uhura story. I love the way that Spock, Kirk’s and Uhura’s triangle plays, which is the idea that, you know, in a conventional movie, Kirk is gonna get the girl.
-That’s right. I love her in this shot, by the way. He lost her before the movie even started.
-That’s right.
-But you don’t realize that until later.
-She’s still in play, maybe, in the bar, but at some point in these three years, she’s fallen for Spock

They repeatedly stress the fact that Spock got the girl since the start and Kirk didn’t stand a chance.

- re: turbolift scene
“I just feel like this was the gutsiest thing that we did. Blowing up Vulcan was nothing compared to saying, ‘Spock and Uhura are in love with each other and are having this incredibly intimate relationship.’

- re: transport pad scene
“This is my favourite scene, by the way, I think. Just the idea that in the background they’re, like, basically “I love you. I love you.” Kissy, kissy.
-Well, I think the fact that you blocked it as something that you catch on to, as opposed to sort of cutting to a moment in there -is what makes it great.
I just love that they’re in love

In the end they also say that Uhura is “Happy that her boyfriend is on the ship”

People may perceive things like they want but there’s a point where the interpretation becomes whishfully thinking and denial.
It’s implied that they functioned as a couple regardless and before those circumstances withing the context of the death of his mother. The fact that they’re a couple before that is also important to keep Spock more in character.
His interactions with her speak volumes because he wouldn’t act like that with someone with whom he wasn’t already intimate before even if he loved her.
His last words when he believed that he could die were for her (it doesn’t take a rocket science to understand that he wanted to say ” tell her that i love her” or a similar declaration of love.The fact itself that he asked Jim, a stranger for him, to do that is telling). It would be extremely out of character for them to simply pretend that the relantionship never happened and break up.
It seems to me that some people criticize the writers for their supposed inconsistencies and yet they keep asking for more inconsistencies and nonsense from them. And we’re talking about a couple that was merely in the background you can enjoy the movie even if you despise them so i don’t get the big fuss.

As for the whole instructor/cadet issue: are there any real rules against it? We don’t know when S/U exactly started dating each other. In the hangar scene Uhura said that she WAS (past sense) one of his top students. In the official site of the movie it’s stated that she worked as assistant maybe she and Spock started dating each other only after she graduated and they worked together. We have to assume a lot of things here so i can’t and won’t judge before the writers will make some things more clear.
Anyway I don’t find it so illogical that Spock would start a relantionship with her EVEN if it was against the rules.
I actually think that for someone like Spock the conflict ceases to exist in the moment where he realizes that he has feelings for the woman. As soon as he realizes that he would think that it’s more logical for him to be with her regardless the circumstances they’re in because the alternative (pretending that they don’t have feelings for each other) is more illogical.
Love, as a feeling, can be both logical and illogical for a vulcan man.
It’s illogical because no one can control it. It isn’t rational. If you fall in love you can’t make it stop. The only way you can control it is by accepting it and giving in.
The logical part is that from a vulcan standpoint it’s logical to be with someone that you love. The alternative is to pretend that the feeling doesn’t exist and this means lying to themselves and vulcan people can’t lie or don’t like to do so.
Sarek is an useful example here: originally he said that he had married Amanda because it was logical and then he later admitted that he married her because he loved her. I don’t think that in the first statement he necessarily lied to his son. Of course it was logical for him to marry her because he loved her and she loved him back. It would have been illogical for him to marry a random vulcan lady that he didn’t love when he could marry someone that he loved and who loved him back, someone with whom he could create a more long lasting bond.
Some people also seem to forget that vulcan people do have feelings even more than the humans.
They feel deeply. Spock’s problem and what makes him a complex character is that he’s half human too so he experiences strong feelings because of his vulcan side but since he isn’t 100% vulcan his human side makes it more difficult for him to control those feelings like vulcan people do. It’s like having a strong power without having the ability to use it correctly. He’s overwhelmed by his vulcan feelings mixed with the human ones.
Unlike what some people said I actually think it’s Spock’s vulcan side that can make him love Uhura (and his mother) deeply and maybe more than how we humans are able to (he may just show it differently compared to humans) It’s his human side that may be an obstacle and create conflicts. It’s his human side that may see that relationship as something that goes against the rules. Because we humans are a mess and we’re ruled by all the kind of feelings not just love. We’re insecure, irrational, we’re scared and sometimes we’re scared to love too.
Point is that most likely it was actually easier for Sarek to accept his love for Amanda and give in because he’s 100% vulcan so as soon as he realized that he had feelings for her he was zen about it. Spock’s human side instead may make it more difficult for him at the beginning.
This is only my opinion anyway.

374. Jemini - March 31, 2012

I don’t know why my reply got posted twice.
For the webmaster of the site: feel free to delete the duplicate.

375. Thunderwolf - March 31, 2012

I think that the S/U romance interrupts the flow of the story, taking away from the real story around it. Such as the transporter scene. Jim Kirk and Spock are about to beam over to stop Nero for good. There’s an intense buildup as the story nears the climax of these two taking on Nero and his crew.

Instead of a direct beamout, with the crew is performing at their peak and everyone is at their stations, the communications officer, instead of staying her station during this crisis, she has the intense need to stop everything and everyone so she can kiss her boyfriend. All the people around her have this look on their faces at the beginning, the look of “do you have to do this now?” look. I would think that such a kiss would come after all the action and their duties are completed, instead she leaves her station.

I would think the character of Uhura didn’t need a boyfriend. I always pictured her as strong and independent. Seeing her stop everything so she can kiss, or ask Spock about her feelings, makes her look like she’s emotionally needy or needs to help someone through their emotions.
Spock while being half human is also half Vulcan. While some have been focusing in on the part that being half-human who loves his mother, he would love a girlfriend, forget that he is also half Vulcan. While he may have kissed Uhura, it wouldn’t be logical to kiss her as such a critical point with time running out for Earth.

I’m hoping that in this next movie, while very rarely showing emotion, Spock shows more of his Vulcan side. His reason and logic are what help Captain Kirk stay grounded. I would like to see more of this epic friendship, including more scenes with the two of them along with Doctor McCoy. The bantering between Spock and McCoy with Jim in the center offers up some of the best scenes. Spock is an integral part of this trio and to have most of his focus on the needs of a girlfriend doesn’t seem logical.

376. honest soul - April 9, 2012

you can’t deny that a sex scene between them would look really hot

377. honest soul - April 9, 2012

Totally agree with Jemini. Great comment.

378. KK - April 15, 2012

I’m not fond of the Spork/Uhura romance. This might be because I read the novelization before I watched the movie, and I found this particular piece of dialogue:
“Heedless of his superior rank, [Uhura] interrupted him without so much as a raised hand. “And did I not, on multiple occasions, make it clear that my dream and the reason behind four years of hard work was to serve on the Enterprise?”
“Vociferously and repeatedly, perhaps even to the point of obsession,” he admitted. “Your ability to communicate in that regard was the equal of any of your classroom efforts.”
Uhura took a step forward. Anyone other than Spock might have found the movement threatening. “And yet I was assigned to the Farragut?””
Also prestent in the original script:
“And while you were well aware that my unqualified desire was to serve on the U.S.S. Enterprise”
left rather a bad taste in my mouth.
I’m trying to imagine a situation where I would find it appropriate to date a superior, while “vociferously and repeatedly” needling them for a promotion, and I really can’t. I simply find it morally wrong.
As if that weren’t enough, I find Spock’s attitude toward Uhura smelling of Electra complex – and while it is not an uncommon trope in fantasy/scf-fi, it is really not my cup of tea. It makes the relationship quite imbalanced and unhealthy, IMHO.

I can understand the people who wish to see more interracial romances on the big screen, as well as those who remember Gene’s initial wish to make Spock and Uhura a couple. The problem is, through the long years of the franchise’s life the dynamics in the show evolved differently and trying to scrape them in favour of forcing a romance into the plot is destroying decades of character development that went in a completely different direction.

Plus, I rather liked Scotty/Uhura from Star Trek V, and the sole scene they had together in the novelization. ;)

379. Jemini - April 26, 2012

378: did I read it right? Electra complex? uhm ok LOL (how to use random words for dummies?)
That scene from both the movie and the tie in novel is one of my favorites.
The wonder of different opinions. I have a totally different interpretation of it as I see the scene showing them as equals even if he’s superior by rank. She probably is the only woman (and most likely the only character by that point) that isn’t intimidated by him. Also it’s brilliant that she won the argument using his own logic (and words) the best thing you can do with a vulcan man is using his own logic against him. He knew that he had acted stupid there and he didn’t even try to deny what she was saying because he knew that she was right. It seems to me that there’s respect here and the tie in novel also implies that he was mainly concerned about her.

ps: Scotty/Uhura from that the movie that everyone would love to pretend that didn’t exist (including GR, because it was that bad) never made sense to me and it was only implied. Nothing serious and nothing so well developed either. And speaking about the novels since you love them: didn’t Spock also marry someone and had a son at one point?

Spock and Uhura had way more chemistry and subtext in TOS than Scotty/Uhura IMO but of course it’s a matter of taste. However, this is not TOS. In this new universe Scotty/Uhura don’t make any sense especially now that she’s in love with Spock and, at least according to the writers, he loves her back. Unless we want to turn ST into “grey’s anatomy” where characters change partners every week. In that case, matter of taste again. Not my cup of tea and pretty incoherent to wish from people that claim that they don’t want to see romance in ST. You either want it or you don’t.

380. Thunderwolf - April 27, 2012

To me, those scenes still seem kind of forced, so that Uhura’s role in the movie is bigger. As communications officer, most of the time in the series and in most of the movies, she’s at her station on the Enterprise. Now as Spock’s girlfriend, she follows him to a lot of places on the Enterprise instead of being at her station on the bridge and can be involved in a lot more scenes.

While it does give her more screen time, it takes away the focus from the interactions of Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock. It also takes more of the personality away from Spock. Instead of the arguments between him and McCoy and the teamwork between him and Captain Kirk, he’s shown having to deal with what goes with having a girlfriend. Sometimes the best screen dialogue comes from the arguments between Spock and McCoy with Kirk in the middle trying to solve it. Or the times when Spock and Captain Kirk are alone having to battle their way out of situations.

381. Lizzy - April 30, 2012

I love Urura as a women but not as Spock’s girlfriend. Spock has enough on his plate and needs no mate or romance. He never had a girlfriend for long on TOS and noone ever missed that. Also she was his student, had a huge crush on him, comforted him with a kiss, then he started to feel some affection for her later, and thats about it. The first two eps of TOS had way more K?S chemisty and everyone knows they were the true pairing in TOS and were in love. This is the 21st centery, bring Spock and Kirk together, slowly and surly.

382. RC95 - May 1, 2012

The argument for Spock/Uhura is centred around – what, exactly?

There is no indication that they work well as a couple, there is no evidence that Spock was ever attracted to Uhura during her tutelage (spare me the Vulcan lack of emotion bullcrap), and their scenes in the movie were just forced, and slightly tender (but mostly cringe-inducing) fillers between important, actual character-building scenes.

Now, my view may not be the same as yours, and I respect that. I don’t necessarily understand your need (especially this Jemini person, who writes a novella which I daren’t read because of the hopeful insights she creates from scenes that mainly annoyed most other viewers) to continue preaching about the loveliness or rightness of the ship.

The original Uhura was a strong, independent woman who did not need to slink up to a male and almost basically force him into a relationship with her. I wish that the filmmakers had kept this in mind when creating the new Uhura, but they just slightly missed the mark there.

I think it’s inevitable that Spock/Uhura will continue in the nuTrek ‘verse, no matter what arguments fans contend against the couple. It’s sad and true, but we’ll accept it. And then we’ll continue shipping Spock and Kirk, just to piss you off further.

Live long and ship Spirk forever. So, THERE! (ignore (or rejoice in) my juvenile need to compensate for my personal-blah-inducing, intelligent, witty and oh-so-creative understanding of other people’s opinions with a crazy, but necessary, fangirl moment).

383. Jemini - May 2, 2012

382: “Jemini person, who writes a novella which I daren’t read because of the hopeful insights she creates from scenes that mainly annoyed most other viewers”
—————
Oh well….
1) Don’t give me undue credit.
Had you read my comment, you would have realized (or perhaps not.. ) that those aren’t my “hopeful insights” that I created from the scenes BUT things that the writers themselves said through the commentary, the script and the tie in novel. I merely copied and pasted them here to support my argument.
Spock and Uhura being in love and having a relationship pre-turbolift scene is “hopeful insights” from JJ, Orci&co.
Of course you can disagree.. with them.
In that case yours would be “hopeful insights” as well although the tone of your comment seem to imply that your opinion is more important than the others and that you are not biased too. A very flawed logic and a rude approach to discussions, one that makes it impossible for people to politely discuss with you unless they agree with you. And of course it’s even more difficult to reply to someone like you who replied to comments that admitted to not read at all. I’m so sorry that someone apparently forced you to open this page and reply to comments that you didn’t want to read.

2) “scenes that mainly annoyed most other viewers”
Most of the viewers according to YOU. Are you one of those people that like to believe that just because they have an opinion everyone shares it?
I think that we can simply state our own opinions here. Leave to the others the chance to express or not express theirs you can’t talk for everyone.
It was said somewhere that only 3% of the fans ever read and post comments in this site. 3%!
And you may be oblivious to it because you don’t like them but S/U already have a consistent following considering the few scenes they have and them being canon only in this universe. So it’s extremely untrue to say that “everyone hate them” or disliked their scenes, for that matter. Even that 3% of people that read and post in this site isn’t made only by haters, obviously.
In any fandom I participate to, the haters are always more vocal than the fans. So even here It doesn’t surprise me one bit that the S/U haters have more energy to repeatedly make the same arguments over and over (as it’s made obvious in this site) just like it doesn’t surprise me that they may came in full force to vote against S/U in any poll on the site and try to change the writers’ mind in a site where, coincidentally, one of them happen to lurk and leave comments (and it’s something that it’s safe to say that the haters actually did in the past and this being the internet i’m not the only one that noticed it though I don’t intent to make a comment about it here as you’re the one who is bringing the fans in the topic, my post wasn’t about or against K/S fans in any form)
The haters are simply more motivated to voice their opinions.

3) “The original Uhura was a strong, independent woman”
It isn’t even the most original argument I’ve read. I almost prefer it when people call her a date rapist. Almost.
I, for one, believe that nothing in the way Orci&Co wrote her in the movie makes me perceive her any less “strong and independent”. I actually applaud the writers because in my opinion they finally let her shine.
People may dislike S/U for many reasons and those aren’t less biased than the reasons stated by the ones that happen to like them instead.
So, don’t worry, no one will bite you if you simply admit that you don’t want the girl to get in the way of Kirk/Spock (as it’s obvious by all the “The original Uhura was a strong, independent woman” posts anyway).
It’s a more honest opinion than pretending to care about her character and state that you dislike S/U just because you want the best for her character (and yet the same people, coincidentally, ship her with Scotty. Isn’t that a love interest too? oh right Scotty isn’t Spock so that couple is not a threat to.. whatever people feel she’s a threat to when being paired with Spock).
It’s also a less risky opinion as the whole “strong independent woman” argument is dangerously double standard since I don’t see people saying that Spock is reduced as a love interest too when being paired with Kirk (or Kirk with Spock). Both men and women should be allowed to have a relationship and a career but apparently Uhura can’t have a love interest (correction: she can’t have a love interest, if that is Spock)
That is, really, the main reason of why people don’t reply to this kind of arguments anymore because we had realized by now that the whole “strong independent woman” bit is just an excuse like the many and frankly it’s like talking with a brick wall and it doesn’t make sense to invalidate an argument that is invalidated itself by the fact that people state that they ship her with other characters or they ship Spock with other characters.
I feel, though, that these essays are spot on in talking about Uhura and double standard:
http://bana05.livejournal.com/246504.html#cutid1
http://bana05.livejournal.com/219300.html#cutid1
http://taraljc.livejournal.com/1366255.html
(I don’t suggest YOU to read them. Judging your reply here it would be a ridiculous suggestion from my part unless I’d want to make some humor)

there’re some more things i feel the need to reply though:

“I think it’s inevitable that Spock/Uhura will continue in the nuTrek ‘verse, no matter what arguments fans contend against the couple. It’s sad and true, but we’ll accept it.”

well, we’re in the 2012 and the movie came out in the 2009.
If the repeated heated arguments made here and the tone of your comment are any hint of it , you and the other haters are surely doing a great job showing that “you’ll accept it” ^

384. Jemini - May 2, 2012

“In the Reboot, she shows more of a proactive, geeky side, the side that, in TOS had always been shown albeit with her in the background, doing her job. In the Reboot, Uhura is now foreground, someone who cannot be ignored or handwaved away. Not only that, but the “out of nowhere” aspect of the Spock/Uhura relationship that many cry foul about further asserts that relationship is not Uhura’s primary narrative. And isn’t it ironic that people who claim they wished Uhura wasn’t just “a love object” are many of the same people who are whining about the “out of nowhere” part of the romance. Except, up until then, Uhura is framed as being serious about her job (staying late to intercept the Klingon message) and rejecting a romance makes the “love object” part null and void. She isn’t a passive person, taking whoever is positioned by the text to be with her. She chose someone else. And not only that, how she chose that person is hers and her partner’s business. Their relationship is not the story. I think the writers struck the right note with how it was presented. Yes, (some of) the audience was shocked. But the one person who wasn’t shocked about her kissing him in the turbolift is the same person who was being kissed…who looked to her after he stopped whoopin’ that behind…who kissed her on the transporter pad…who was about to declare his love for her when he thought he was on a suicide mission.
Coincidence? I think not.

source: Bana05 @ Livejournal (http://bana05.livejournal.com/246504.html#cutid1)

;)

385. Thunderwolf - May 2, 2012

I still see in the comic books where Spock is starting to become more Vulcan now, with his emotions in check. I think that if Spock wanted to stay with Uhura as her boyfriend, he would have been on the ship as it was ready to leave. As it was he was ready to go New Vulcan to help out the survivors. It was Spock Prime who convinced Spock to stay on the Enterprise. Not because of Uhura, but for Jim Kirk.

Neither mentioned Uhura during this conversation. When Spock asked Spock Prime why he told Jim not to tell them about their meeting, Spock Prime stated that Spock and Jim needed each other. That there was so much they could accomplish if they stayed together.

It is too bad that the scene with the locket didn’t appear. It would have come right before Jim’s entrance onto the bridge of the Enterprise.

386. RC95 - May 3, 2012

You seem to like long comments. I skimmed over your main points, but, yeah. Meh. The writers seem to be compensating for such an unnecessary decision as the Spock/Uhura romance, if they have to justify it like that.

How’s that for accepting it?

Look, I am so not going to argue with you about this, because you’ve got your own opinions, and I prefer mine. Does that make me a bad person? Nope, that, uh, makes me human.

Anyway, Thunderwolf’s voice of reason is logical, yet again. I never really even thought about the fact that Uhura wasn’t mentioned at all in that scene…mostly because I forget about everyone else as soon as either Quinto, Pine, or Nimoy appear on screen. I am going to watch that scene differently from now on, and appreciate it even more.

I will say this for Uhura – I’d love to see her in a relationship with anyone – ANYONE – but Spock. Or Kirk. For obvious reasons. I don’t hate Uhura; far from it, but I don’t totally agree with the sexualisation of her character, and her relationship with Spock, as a means of attracting more fans. (This is turning into an Oscars speech, but I need to say this too –) –I love the filmmakers! I do. And I also understand that adapting Star Trek to accommodate 21st Century viewers required a bit more than the original offered. As though the tiny skirts weren’t enough…

So, to sum up, I’d like to thank my mum, my dad, my dog, Lord God Roddenberry, and, and the Academy, and – oh, yes, and Spock and Kirk, and the actors for making this all possible, and, oh god, have I forgotten anyone? Thank you everyone!

Wow. That was OTT. Sorry…XD

387. Jemini - May 3, 2012

Premise: I love how S/U fans are accused of .. how it was? “continue preaching about the loveliness or rightness of the ship” (LOL) and yet there’re many K/S fans here (hello Thunderwolf. I have yet to understand if you’re a slash fan or simply a K/S friendship shipper but you’re definitely a fan of this page and some arguments! :D ) that write the same arguments over and over and yet I don’t see S/U shippers saying: “What someone I not necessarily understand is K/S fans need to continue preaching about the wrongness of the ship”

—————
385.
as for THE COMICS: I’ve read them (I already commented them on another page with more details)
I have a different opinion (because you know yours is just an opinion too, unless you talked with the comic writers and they personally explained the purpose of the scene to you) as Spock is more impulsive and Uhura is worried about him for this reason because he’s, actually, not thinking logically. The writers seem to simply use their relationship to put a reminder there that his home planet got destroyed, his mother had died and of course he’s still grieving about it and we can’t pretend (including him) that it never happened especially when those events are such a big deal in the movie (and for him and his personal arc as a character). Seems pretty realistic to me. I don’t think that when Uhura started a relationship with him he wasn’t vulcan. If anything, it’s the events in the movie that made him a bit more human.
Uhura knows him better than the others not only because she’s his girlfriend but because she’s his friend too. She knows him since years.
In fact, in the scene even though there’s a hint about them being lovers (their couple status) after that she acts as a friend too.
If his actions are out of character she, as his girlfriend and his only real friend up this point, has a legit reason to talk about it with him. The others aren’t intimate with him enough to address something so personal like him still grieving about what happened to vulcan and him consequently acting irrational because of if.

Actually the comics don’t make me worry about their relationship as they make me worry about him
Because if the comics are any hint about the sequel I suspect that he will put himself in danger making stupid decisions. If he will do that then it’s good that someone here, in this case Uhura, is starting to notice the signs.

as for THE ENDING OF THE MOVIE:
“I think that if Spock wanted to stay with Uhura as her boyfriend, he would have been on the ship as it was ready to leave.”

See, the information set from which you are drawing your absolute conclusions is too superficial and biased to make the claim you are attempting to justify. No offense but can we admit, at least, that we’re both biased here? Because you, along with the other S/U haters here, surely are no less biased than the fans and people like me that perceive things differently.
In the end, only the writers can know the characters and the story, we can only make our assumptions based on what we WANT to see and not see but they’re just that: different interpretations of the same things.

That said, in you repeated comments about this part of the movie there are many missing “details” that you’re ignoring completely. You limited his dilemma and motivations as if it was simply a matter of “him leaving his girlfriend behind” or joining “buddy Kirk” on the ship. Regardless what I believe about his relationships with those people, I disagree with your approach to the storyline because I think that the source of Spock’s dilemma there was much more complex than what you make it seems that it was.
First of all, you’re wrongly assuming that staying with the vulcans is what Spock wanted to do. Like if it was the easy choice for him.
In reality, he never said that he wanted to do that. He simply said that helping the other vulcans was the logical thing to do. Huge difference as the specific choice of words didn’t indicate an involvement of feelings in that, possible, decision. Actually, he didn’t even said that he had already decided to do that. You’re assuming that too. From his choice of words, what we can really assume with certainty is that he was taking that in consideration. Otherwise he would have clearly said “I decided to join the colony”.

Spock took in consideration the idea to sacrifice what he wanted (not just Uhura but his own life, his career, the future that had had probably programmed for himself) to help people that never accepted him anyway (so, he’s actually selfless.)
His feelings didn’t matter in that moment, they weren’t in the equation for him. They couldn’t be.
This is not the boyfriend leaving his girlfriend behind because he wanted to have fun with his friends. This is a guy who wanted to sacrifice his own happiness because a genocide like the one happened to the vulcans may make you feel like you have to do that especially if you’re half vulcan and duty is so important for you, more important than your happiness. Yes, he may love her and he may like his life at the Starfleet (don’t you think that he cares about his job too? it’s his life) but this is still Spock and if someone has to sacrifice himself for the greater good you can bet that he will always do that, regardless his feelings, regardless if he has friends (TOS) regardless if he has a girfriend (AOS).
From his POV he didn’t have much of a choice there, just like he didn’t have much of a choice when he faced Nero and almost sacrificed his own life to save everyone. He willingly went on a suicide mission.
When he told Uhura “I will be back” most likely they both knew that what he really meant with that was something along the lines of “I want to come back but maybe I won’t get this chance”…that is also the reason of why he could care less, in that moment, that someone was watching him kissing her on the transport pad. He wanted her to know his feelings for her before dying (and really that infamous scene isn’t more Out of character and absurd then him basically telling to the vulcan science academy to go f**k themselves or him almost choking Kirk to death just because he implied that he didn’t love his mother. Don’t touch his mommy or you will regret it)

One thing to take into consideration: Let’s remember that both Spock and Uhura chose a military career and people with “jobs” like theirs should be prepared to handle the eventuality that they may not get the chance to be together all the time not to mention the eventuality that one of them may die in a mission (or they may be forced to choose to protect their captain instead of their beloved one) When Spock went on a suicidal mission (twice in the movie if we count when he went to resque his parents while Vulcan was imploding) you didn’t see Uhura asking him to not leave her because she knew that what he was about to do was the right thing and his duty. Danger is a part of the game and will always be a constant in their life. So, she did the only thing that she could do for him: her job, monitoring his frequencies so that he could safely get back as soon as he could. If he could.
There isn’t a single scene in the movie where it seemed that Uhura was asking him something that he couldn’t give to her. She offered comfort she asked him what he needed. She seems to accept him for who he is not to mention that her job seems very important to her just as his job is important for him. In the end didn’t Uhura also decide to stay on the Enterprise even before Spock came to the same decision?
Because you’re forgetting that Uhura had a decision to make too and she decided to stay on the Enterprise.
Maybe in the end she didn’t ask him to stay with her for the same reason she didn’t ask him to stay when he went on a suicidal mission. What if earth had imploded in a black hole instead of Vulcan? She, as a human, would want to help her people too. They’re not teenagers dealing with the first love. His POV was pretty understandable, it wasn’t about them or her.
If I were in her place I don’t know what kind of advice I would give to him but most likely I would never ask him to stay just for me even if it was what I wanted, even if I knew that he wanted that too.

Anyway, I don’t remember the ending implying that S/U had broken up though.
Actually, when Spock came back and he looked at her she smiled back at him and the writers said that Uhura was happy that her boyfriend was back. Present sense. So, whatever happened between them and judging from the comics they didn’t get back together.. they simply never broke up, to begin with.
To be fair, we didn’t see what happened between the scene when he came back from the Narada and he runs over to Uhura to clasp her hands and then when he met Spock Prime and then when he came back on the Enterprise. We didn’t see it. Someone could write a tie in novel only for that.
You don’t know what exactly happened between S/U because the writers don’t show it as the movie isn’t about them or them getting together.
Since they were a couple it’s safe to assume that they talked about his decision at one point but we didn’t see this talk and what he told her just like we didn’t see and we aren’t told how Spock came to his decision.

Now, I’m sorry but saying that he stayed only because of the promise of possible future friendship with Kirk (as you’re implying here) is as biased and inconsistent (and “illogical” and out of character) as saying that he stayed only for Uhura (which isn’t my opinion btw. I think that he stayed for different and more realistic reasons. He stayed because he had valid logical reasons to do so and because after the talk with Spock Prime it was the most convenient choice. Uhura and Kirk are just the bonuses here ;) )
We aren’t told the reasons that made him change his mind and he didn’t voice them either so we don’t know why he decided to stay and how he finally came to that conclusion. We didn’t see him talking to the enders, we didn’t see him talking with Uhura or his father. We only saw him on the ship in the end and that’s all.
Since he’s so “logical” it wouldn’t make sense for him to stay just because his other self talked about a friendship with a guy that this Spock hated and had almost killed in the movie. Sorry but this idea is as forced and contrived and cheesy as you claim that other things in the movie are forced and contrived and cheesy. What next? Spock believes in God?
People talk so much about Spock being in character or not in character her but why on earth Spock should come back only for Kirk when he hardly tolerated the guy and when he didn’t even care to be there with the others (including his girlfriend) when they promoted Kirk as the Captain? The others were there for Kirk and supported and congratulated with him. Where was Spock?
Why he should be there. Kirk is a stranger for him, a kid that cheated his test and didn’t even had to really face the consequences of it, someone that humiliated him on the ship (something that should have been addressed in the movie or should be addressed in the next), a young unexperienced cadet that became the captain taking advantage of his emotional state (even though Spock already and rightfully was the first officer before Kirk even got on the ship). Spock got no credit for what HE did in the mission and for the fact that he basically saved earth and almost killed himself doing so.
If Spock is really Spock then what the other Spock Prime said isn’t sufficient enough to make him change his mind and the sappy deleted scene you’re talking about (that was there only as a cameo for “old Kirk” in case the actor wanted to do that, btw) doesn’t add anything important here, nothing that the other Spock didn’t already tell to this Spock.

So he watched the message that the other Kirk gave to the other Spock. So those versions of them were friends. What this have to do with him?
Because like this Spock himself said to his other self in reply to the whole “Kirk is your friend”:
“My future cannot be determined by your past. We are one, but not the same.”

and that’s the point! of the whole movie. I think.

Another important point that you seem to miss here:
Had Spock left his career at the Starfleet he wouldn’t see Kirk anymore and they could never be friends but he wouldn’t necessarily end his relationship with Uhura that, unlike his friendship with Kirk, already existed at the time. He could still see her. Even if they couldn’t see each other all the time like they would on the enterprise he could still contact her and see her on shore leave for example. They could have the kind of relationship (namely: long distance relationship) that many couples actually have in the real world. There’re many couples that stay separated for years but still manage to maintain a relationship.
It’s not easy sure but, again, these two work for at the Starfleet. I think that if you date an officer you kinda have to take a long distance relationship in consideration because chances are that one of you will be away for a mission at one point and won’t come back very soon.
She could join him on new Vulcan after the five year mission of the Enterprise ended. Or maybe he could join her on the Enterprise later. Who said that he was supposed to stay with the vulcans forever? It could be one month or 10 years. Who knows.

Apparently, these two had a relationship while they were at the Accademy (where we don’t know if it was against some rules) if they had just wanted it to be easy they wouldn’t have chosen to be together at the time, to begin with.

I think that what he was really giving up there (when he thought to stay with the other vulcans) was his career foremost but not necessarily Uhura and his relationship with her too, not completely. Not from his pov at least. Vulcans mate for life and yet they apparently don’t need to be with their mate all the time. It isn’t so hard to imagine that for someone like him that can possibly form a telepathic bond with his partner a long distance relationship isn’t a big deal as it can be for you.

Did he ask Uhura to stay with him? She could have stayed with him, you know. But apparently she didn’t. Maybe he didn’t ask her, at all. Maybe they didn’t have this talk because they didn’t need to. The Enterprise was her dream and he knew it.
It wouldn’t be easy but if he decided to stay with the other vulcans he could still have her in some way. What he couldn’t have anymore was a career at the Starfleet . Maybe in the end when she smiled she was proud of him because he didn’t give up his dreams for the vulcans just like she didn’t give up hers for him.

“It was Spock Prime who convinced Spock to stay on the Enterprise. Not because of Uhura, but for Jim Kirk. “

Sorry but this is lame. So what? Spock Prime couldn’t talk about Uhura there. Had no reason. Why he should? It’s not the same Spock, their life is different. Their feelings are different too. This Spock is a stranger to him in so many ways. A possible friendship with Kirk is the only thing that he may have in common or hope to have in common with this Spock… and maybe not because what Spock Prime said isn’t sufficient, alone , to magically make Jim and Spock best friends just like that. Unless you’re saying that Spock is such a sentimental and he can suddenly start to care about a guy that he had almost killed 5 minutes ago. How it can be realistic or in character? What next? Someone making him believe in fairies?

There’s no evidence that Spock Prime knows about S/U and since in his reality he wasn’t romantically involved with her he has no reason to talk about a romantic relationship with her (and really it’s already creepy how he manipulated Kirk/Spock into a friendship imagine him telling Spock about his romantic relationships too influencing his choices about that as well..)
In a way, she’s implicitly included there because joining Kirk’s ship means getting the whole package as both Uhura and McCoy are there too (and they were his friends in the other reality and he asked about them in the other scene so he already knows that they’re there) . But he can’t know that this version of himself loves the girl and she may be one further reason for him to decide to stay on the Enterprise. He can’t know and he won’t say it.
Hell, Spock Prime didn’t even meet his Uhura at the same time! Here Spock met her way before he met Kirk. Even if him and Uhura weren’t romantically involved with each other their friendship would be, up this point, more consistent and real than his friendship with Kirk that here doesn’t exist yet, literally. Which is, IMO, one of the reasons of why these S/U got the chance to start a relationship while the others didn’t. If anything, the other Spock married Saavik at one point.

The real advice that the other Spock Prime gave to this Spock wasn’t just “be friends with Jim because he’s a funny guy etc etc” it was “do what you feel that is right for you” whatever this Spock felt that was the right thing to do.
This Spock decided to stay because old Spock gave him an alternative choice: he basically freed him from his duty toward the vulcans because he said that he could be in two places in the same moment. Logically, Spock didn’t have a reason to give up his dreams and his career (and Uhura) anymore because another version of him was helping the vulcans for him. Furthermore, that other version of him gave him an easier and safer choice. Statistically, he had more chances to success and do good things on the Enterprise (as that other Spock is the living proof of it. He told him that!) than jumping in the unknown that was helping the vulcans to rebuild their race (and it’s not like he can help by impregnating some vulcan girl either since he’s only half vulcan and you can bet that other survivors are, genetically, considered more suited than him for breeding) After all, his skills were more useful on the Enterprise than on new Vulcan anyway.
Let’s see: getting back on the Enterprise where I can do my job I’m good at (and do it well, as this other version is telling me that I did) and see different words all the while my girlfriend keeps me warm in the night and where I can finally make some friends (and apparently I did have friends as the other me is saying) OR stay with the vulcans that never accepted me. What a hard decision to make! /sarcasm
Frankly, the guy got it easy because after he talked with Spock Prime his decision was one pretty easy to make. Spock may be a masochist and a martyr but even Spock has limits.

——————-

Anyway, Those are my two cents.
I’m sure that I did repeat things that other people already said here (sorry) that is inevitable as you already talked about this point with other posters, repeatedly, that disagreed with you.
And the thing is, when the same people start to write the same arguments over and over the risk is that the others may start to feel like someone is trying to change their mind and convert them.
Just an impression. Maybe you just want to make your opinion as clear as possible ;) (and as you can see from my long reply perhaps i’m like that too)
But believe me it was clear the first time, and the second, and the third and so on.
I may be wrong but I don’t think that the webmaster of the site will delete the other comments so I don’t understand your impellent necessity to repeat yourself so much especially when nothing really new is added to these discussions and it’s obvious that everyone has his/her own opinion and no one will change anyone’s mind.

388. linda - May 4, 2012

In Life you have many Relationships Spock and Uhura being together and in Love is not in any way taking away from the Spock,McCoy and Kirk Friendship in Life we Have Many Relationships Lovers ,Friends and Family and one does Not over take the other and any body who said it does is not think clear at all

389. Jinn-Jinn - May 4, 2012

Wow, this is a year old! Well, better late than never….

I love this new movie and I love Spock/Uhura. I am interested to see how it evolves in the next film.

I’m glad the writers were bold enough to write this along with their other changes, because then what would be the point of creating an alternate universe? I mean, I know what the choices and events were in TOS. Making a near carbon copy for these new films would be predictable.

Stories always change to suit the times. Cinderella and Noah’s Ark have many variations and likely so will Star Trek over the incoming years.

390. RC95 - May 6, 2012

This, I think, is turning into an argument. Oooooh…

Well, since your “two cents” take, like, two thousand words, I’ll be considerate to people still reading this thing, and not take up too much more of your time, and just sum up my secondary argument/ultimate dream for future Star Trek in one word…

T’hy’la.

Really don’t feel the need to say anything else.

Looking forward to reading Jemini’s reply essay on this…XD.

391. Jemini - May 9, 2012

well, I don’t disagree here
T’hy’la: popular fandom word used in a novel to describe Spock/Kirk; never used in TOS or the actual movies though. In vulcan it means “brother, friend”

oh… I know that it was stated that the word can also mean “lover” … with a different tad “less” meaning (the equivalent of the human “friends with benefits”?) as the actual vulcan words for beloved, wife, husband and bondmates exist and those aren’t used for friends and brothers.
Of course I’m aware that slash fans use the word “T’hy’la” with the lovers meaning and they also assume that it’s the equivalent of “soulmate”. Of course they ignore a tiny detail that is the footnote added to that novel itself where it’s explained that the meaning intended for K/S is just “brother”

“The human concept of friend is most nearly duplicated in Vulcan thought by the term “t’hy’la”, which can also mean “brother” and “lover”. Spock’s recollection (from which this chapter is drawn) is that it was a most difficult moment for him since he did indeed consider Kirk to have become his brother. However, because “t’hy’la” can be used to mean “lover” and since Kirk’s and Spock’s friendship was unusually close, this has led to some speculation over whether or not they had actually indeed become lovers. At our request, Admiral Kirk supplied the following comments on this subject:
“I was never aware of this ‘lovers’ rumor, although I have been told that Spock encountered it several times. Apparently, he had always dismissed it with his characteristic lifting of his right eyebrow, which usually connoted some combination of surprise, disbelief, and/or annoyance. As for myself… I have always found my best gratification in that creature called woman. Also, I would not like to be thought of as being so foolish that I would select a love partner who came into sexual heat only once every seven years.”

basically this is Kirk himself making fun of the “lovers rumors” denying it and implying that Spock didn’t even take it seriously enough to reply to it himself. The note is pretty much in character and it’s a bit ironical how fans apparently forced the writers to state the obvious.
For some reason It makes me remember how poor J. K. Rowling desperately tried to make people understand that Harry and Hermione weren’t in love and they really were just friends, something that she wouldn’t have felt the need to write in text (even Harry calling her his sister wasn’t enough for some fans) had Harry/Hermione not been such a popular fanon pair.

back on topic, yeah Kirk can be Spock’s t’hy’la while Uhura can be his k’hat’n’dlawa (k’diwa “one that is half my heart and half my soul”), ashay-am
Or maybe Bones will be Spock’s T’hy’la this round ;)
The two relationships aren’t mutually exclusive and with that I agree with one of the previous comments. You don’t have to worry about Uhura being an obstacle to K/S friendship. Actually I’d say that Bones is, currently, more an obstacle to that as him and Kirk are more friends than K/S in this reality.

392. RC95 - May 13, 2012

Let’s agree to disagree, then – or whatever we’re getting at here.

Just one thing, though…those quotes, that you have from Kirk and whatnot, they are so ambiguous, so innocent – too innocent, to prove your point.

Have you heard of The Ship’s Closet? Look her up, you might understand a little more. A lot of people have expressed distress at the idea of Spirk, and fans of the couple don’t really need to try too hard to prove that there is more to Spock and Kirk than just friendship.

Why would Gene Roddenberry create a word like t’hy’la, simply to remind Trek fans that Spock and Kirk were just friends? If I was trying not to fuel the fire, I wouldn’t make up a word that explains the relationship of two characters as friends, brothers, AND lovers.

As sad as I am to say this, Uhura in Trek 2009 was written in as a bigger character than she really is just to dissuade Trekkers from shipping Spock and Kirk more than we already do. The creators themselves admitted to this. Needless to say, their efforts have gone to waste – this debate is proof that the romance between Spock and Uhura was simply their bid for publicity – to appeal to the new audience, and that it didn’t exactly work their way.

But, Jesus, I think I’m going to stop posting here now. I never intended this to turn into an argument. I didn’t (and still kinda don’t) understand the protectiveness that people have of the Spock/Uhura ship. Is it really that fragile?

Although, I concede, the same argument can be used (loosely) to explain Spock/Kirk.

I love it when people talk Vulcan to me. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside…

393. Cleo - May 25, 2012

lol an ashkenazi dilemna ongoing neverending

394. Thunderwolf - May 28, 2012

Wow, thanks for the info on The Ship’s Closet. I’ll have to look in on it.

Since it looks like Khan will be the bad guy in the next movie, I’m looking forward to more scenes featuring Spock and Kirk. I can’t wait for the bantering to start between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. The scenes between Spock and McCoy with Kirk acting as the referee are priceless.

395. Jemini - June 7, 2012

392: RC95 I forgot about you and this page sorry.
Uhm.. Ain’t the pot calling the kettle black?
I read your last comment and then I read the other one and .. well it’s funny to say the least. Excuse me but I find your argument against the other fans a tad hypocritical as you’re the one here that essentially did what you’re now accusing the S/U fans of doing.
Is “i never intended this to turn into an argument” sarcasm? LOL
Because your first comment can be perceived as a personal attack (and not so well disguised) against S/U fans because we did DARE to make positive comments about S/U and apparently you have a problem with it.

Yeah, The Ship’s Closet .. no one is saying that slash fans can’t ship what they want and how it was? “create hopeful insights in the K/S friendship” and see something ambiguous where the 90% of the trek fans won’t. K/S fans interpretation and opinions =/= facts.
Of course those aren’t hopeful insights too and we all have to “understand” and see the light . right.

No one is debating your right to ship what you want (although, again, you’re debating people’s right to ship S/U because “you don’t understand that”)

(the novels, regardless our different opinions about them, aren’t canon anyway)

“just to dissuade Trekkers from shipping Spock and Kirk more than we already do. The creators themselves admitted to this.”

and here we go again. K/S fans keep accusing the writers of doing that and yet all these years I still haven’t found a single quote where Orci&Co supposedly admitted that they created S/U just to discourage slash. Where they said that? Can the rest of us finally read this supposed quote where they said that or it’s just the K/S fans finding subtext in their interviews too?
The sole idea that they might even take something like that into consideration is ridiculous (and egocentric).
(and I doubt that they take our comments here seriously)

“Although, I concede, the same argument can be used (loosely) to explain Spock/Kirk. “

loosely? ROTFL
Most of the S/U fans don’t even read and post in this site and usually the few of them that post just share their opinion when requested by the article (like this one) but the haters promptly start arguments with them.
Some people’s impellent need to bash S/U and desperately try to prove that K/S is IT (the fact itself that some people actually believe that there’s a competition here is hilarious) is pretty obvious and if your comment along with some others is any clue here it seems to me that some people have a problem accepting that their opinion isn’t the one and only.
It can’t be a simple coincidence that everytime a new S/U fan makes a comment here even in articles that are very old the same few K/S fans jump in to post their bashing and it’s always the same arguments, the same identical things being said over and over.
and someone could also google things like:
“STOP THE MADNESS, vote to prevent a relationship between uhura and spock in the next movie”
to understand and see how some K/S fans take all of this so seriously that they obsessively ask (everywhere) people to vote against a fictional pair as if by “stopping S/U” your ship will ever be canon anyway.
Talk about being protective. Excuse me again if I can’t help but find your comment ironical.

Since I didn’t bookmark this page to continuously monitor its changes too I’ll leave it to you the chance to experience the orgasmic feeling of having the last word (or last comment) again ;)

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