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Damon Lindelof: Star Trek Sequel Will Go ‘One Step Beyond’ August 23, 2010

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Damon Lindelof is currently writing the Star Trek sequel with Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman. Over the weekend he was nabbed on the red carpet at the Creative Arts Emmys where he talked about the team’s goals for the Trek follow-up and again drew comparison’s to that other big recent franchise follow-up, The Dark Knight.


Lindelof: Getting Highfalutin for Star Trek sequel

E Online caught up with Star Trek producer and Star Trek sequel producer/co-writer Damon Lindelof at the Creative Arts Emmy Awards over the weekend. They asked him what we can expect in the Star Trek sequel, where Lindelof didn’t get specific, but did say they were going to try to take it another step:

The bar is very very high for the sequel. We are looking at a movie like The Dark Knight which actually went one step beyond Batman Begins. It was really about something and at the same time was a superhero movie. We don’t want to abandon all the things that made the first movie work — have it be fun and emotional, but we also want the movie to thematically resonate, so we are putting on our highfalutin hats.

E’s reporter followed up asking if that means they will be trying to save the rainforest and Lindelof quipped back "I think Avatar did a pretty good job of getting the save the rainforest message across, maybe we will put a bumper sticker on the Enterprise."

Here is the video (via EOnline):

Dark Knight comparison – deeper, not darker Trek

Some Trek fans may be concerned that a comparison to The Dark Knight indicates a much darker Trek sequel, possibly abandoning the classic Roddenberry Trek optimism aspirations of the 2009 Star Trek. However, comparisons to the renwed Batman franchise are nothing new for this team. In the run up to the 2009 Star Trek, the film makers would often cite Christopher Nolan’s 2005 film Batman Begins as a benchmark. However the Star Trek movie was clearly a very different kind of origin story than Batman Begins in terms of tone and style. Over the Summer Star Trek producer Bryan Burk talked to TrekMovie about the Trek/Batman comparison:

…our aspirations are for the [Star Trek sequel] to be even bigger and better than the first one. I don’t mean that just in scope, I mean content and characters and emotionally. We had a lot of conversations about Batman Begins and how that movie kind of re-invented that franchise, and we looked at what The Dark Knight did and how that really ramped it up and they went to a different place with that film, and how those two films keep re-inventing themselves and are not the same thing every time.

So the team look to the work Nolan has done as a benchmark in terms of quality and in terms of success. It is worth noting that both Star Trek and Batman Begins had similar global grosses at the box office ($372M for Batman vs. $385M for Trek). Last Fall when TrekMovie asked JJ Abrams if they are thinking of ways of improving performance overseas, again the director pointed to The Dark Knight as a model of a sequel that brought in more moviegoers overseas (as it did domestically). Abrams did also note that he didn’t think Trek would be able to match The Dark Knight’s $1 Billion total, but it is a nice goal to set. Even more important than money, Abrams also told TrekMovie last November that the plan for the Star Trek sequel (again like what was done in The Dark Knight), was to "go a little bit deeper", and that too is a good goal.

Trek and Batman franchises – different tones, but same goals

The Star Trek sequel is due June 29th, 2012, and in a twist of fate, Christopher Nolan’s next Batman film will hit theaters three weeks later.



1. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - August 23, 2010

Now we’re talking — deeper nor darker — this is what I want hear!

2. Green-Blooded-Bastard - August 23, 2010

He gets it. Then again, they all do. I’m so not worried about the next picture. I simply anticipate it.

3. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - August 23, 2010

(not that I mind dark, but the last one was sufficiently dark to my tastes)

4. Marvin the Martian - August 23, 2010

I can handle deeper. I can handle darker. I can’t handle dorkier.

(Insurrection was pretty dorky, so if we never revisit that kind of Trek film, I’ll be very happy.)

5. Khan was Framed! - August 23, 2010

I think we could stand to go a little darker; the best Trek is always a bit edgier; Wrath of Khan. First Contact, any of the ‘Mirror’ episodes.

6. Harry Ballz - August 23, 2010

Deep is good, boring is bad. Bringing in Khan or the Klingons would effectively accomplish the latter.

7. S. John Ross - August 23, 2010

And now I have that song stuck in my head.

8. Anthony Pascale - August 23, 2010

now i have that song in my head
here it is for everyone else

hard to imagine, but that album came out in 1979!

Time for ppl to feel old

9. dmduncan - August 23, 2010

Falut as high ya’ll want. Just make it good too.

10. Dunsel Report - August 23, 2010

Harry is right. Human bad guys please.

11. Martman - August 23, 2010

It must be really hard for these guys, always being interveiwed, if seen in public, and being asked about a project they cant talk about while trying to answer their questions in a way that they say ,,,”nothing”.


I feel for you guys!!

12. T'Cal - August 23, 2010

Wow! My two favorite franchises – Batman and Star Trek – in the same story!! If we could BSG in here somewhere I might just go into overload!

13. Harry Ballz - August 23, 2010


Thanks, Dunsel!

14. Michael Hall - August 23, 2010

“We had a lot of conversations about Batman Begins and how that movie kind of re-invented that franchise, and we looked at what The Dark Knight did and how that really ramped it up and they went to a different place with that film, and how those two films keep re-inventing themselves and are not the same thing every time.”

And yet. . . the one thing we do know about Trek 2012, because Bob Orci has told us so, is that the film will feature a villain of some type. And whether that character is a Khan reboot, or a Klingon, or some species previous unseen in the Trek universe, the film will still be following a well-worn template for the film franchise: the crew of the Big E vs. a Bad Guy. A template that TOS didn’t need to spawn a worldwide phenomenon, and one that The Voyage Home didn’t have to follow to become, until last year, the most successful entry in the film series.

For whatever reason, the filmmakers apparently just can’t get themselves to look past The Wrath of Khan for inspiration. Given that they have the whole galaxy to play in it’s a shame they feel compelled to stick with what’s tried and true and comfortable and familiar. Under the circumstances, claims to daring and originality ultimately just add insult to injury.

15. boborci - August 23, 2010

11. Martman – August 23, 2010

Thanks! It’s a pain!

16. Trekprincess - August 23, 2010

Well what’s wrong with using Khan

17. skyjedi - August 23, 2010

Don’t want a dark noir Trek sorry, but Batman Dark Knight is the wrong template for Trek as it is for Superman.

18. Vultan - August 23, 2010



Even Star Trek V, despite being a jumbled mess of a film, was trying for something besides the standard villain in a spaceship—Klaa being the standard Klingon bad guy who ends up (in a roundabout way—through Spock’s intervention) saving Kirk from the evil god entity. Though it still mystifies me how Klingon disruptors are able to destroy an entity but a photon torpedo can’t quite do the job… :)

Anyway, there is a bit of ironic foreshadowing in Klaa being able to overcome his hatred for Kirk in the end—whereas Kirk has to overcome his hatred for the Klingons in the next film. I’m not sure if the different filmmakers (Shatner & Myer) intended for it to end that way, but it is a nice conclusion for the TOS film series.

19. Del - August 23, 2010

Glad I wasn’t the only one who immediately thought of the Madness song.

20. Harry Ballz - August 23, 2010

Here’s why the next film shouldn’t involve Klingons. Remember the blooper reel from the last movie included some scenes of a Klingon torturing Nero? Never mind that it was a flawed take, but rather observe the tone of the scene before they flubbed it. It was the same one-dimensional simplistic crap we’ve suffered through with the Klingons for the past twenty years! Enough! I implore the writers to come up with something more imaginative AND original. “I dare you to do better!”

21. gingerly - August 23, 2010

Hee! :D

Good thinking. Though, I will say….There were flaws a’plenty in The Dark Knight, once the hype died down.

Gyllenhaal’s character was fridged. The boat scene was some heavy-handed morality.

I really thought Aaron Eckhart did a dynamic job, but was sadly overshadowed by Heath’s performance, death, and the fact that he was the other villain in a film that only needed one.

So, what I’m saying is yes! Aiming for the success, but *not* the method is the right way to go.

22. Harry Ballz - August 23, 2010


So, if I understand you, they should aim for “intent”, not “content”.

23. Vultan - August 23, 2010

Hasn’t Bob Orci said he didn’t like The Dark Knight? Uh oh… I hope we don’t see a split vote in the Supreme Court! ;)

24. Disinvited - August 23, 2010

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, don’t let this mean that Scotty’s going to soup up the Shatmobile!

…err…I mean Shutmobile…although…a Shuttle that collapses to a Mono-nacelle could be kind of cool. ;-)

25. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2010


I quite enjoyed that scene myself. But to each his own. I still think it is possible to do something original while featuring something familiar.
Afterall, we still need to have something to hook the mainstream audience in. Khan or the Klingons would do the trick. The writers have to balance entertainment with business.

I wouldn’t mind seeing Khan and/or the Klingons. But I also wouldn’t mind seeing some Gorn or Tholians. As long as the story is at least partly original, as well as thoughtful and entertaining, I’ll be happy.


Do you by any chance go to work wearing a red shirt?

26. Harry Ballz - August 23, 2010


(my Frankenstein’s monster impression)

27. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2010

Its Gorn to be good….if the writers choose to boldly Gorn….but they’d better act fast before it’s Gorn forever. Its Gorn to be a long two years to know for sure! In the meantime, I think I will enjoy a bowl of Gorn Flakes while I watch “Gorn On The Fourth Of July”.

28. gingerly - August 23, 2010

You know what movie should be your inspiration?

Galaxy Quest.

Yes. I know it is a parody, but every single character in it is defined, flawed, lovable, relate-able, and awesome at some point.

They evolved during their space-adventure, but remained true to their characters.

The Thermians are an alien race that inspired genuine empathy from me. That’s something Insurrection’s Ba’Ku didn’t do.

…And it aged well. Something The Dark Knight (at least for me) hasn’t done.

You guys should shoot for an awesomely re-watchable movie, something that holds up and even gets better with viewings.

Heck, before Star Trek 2009, Galaxy Quest was as close as I thought we could get to the perfect Trek movie, that never was.

And I hate to admit, but I still love it better than Trek 2009.

The secret (besides being funny)?

Those characters. :) Get the characters down first, then place them in a challenging, awe-inspiring, adventure with aliens we get to feel strongly about, love or hate.

…And it’s fun!

29. gingerly - August 23, 2010

One last thing!

If you really want to know what to avoid? Check redlettermedia’s Trek reviews on youtube.

Anthony Pascale, I hope the above isn’t too spammalicious. If not, check them and maybe even do a separate post for them, here!

Yes, they are that good.

30. jas_montreal - August 23, 2010

“It was really about something”

Thank you damon. Thats all i wanted to hear from you guys. Unlike the first Trek 09′ where it wasn’t talking too much in the allegory-sense. I think what makes Trek work very well is when its talking about something, like a general-issue that affects us. Trek 09′ didn’t feel like it was speaking to me a lot. I really enjoyed my favorite characters coming together as a family and defeating Nero. It was fine and emotional. But lets talk about something important in the second !!!!!!! Hopefully this second will up the ante and speak on different levels.

31. jarok - August 23, 2010

I vote for the Gorn or Tholians.

32. njdss4 - August 23, 2010

I definitely hope that the next Trek movie brings out the soul of some of the characters like The Dark Knight did. Really make it a battle of convictions and realizing the sacrifices that must be made. “The Needs of the Many” phrase could really be a source of inspiration.

33. Basement Blogger - August 23, 2010

Yes, thank you Damon Lindelof. Before I heap praise on the approach for the next Star Trek movie, let me be honest and say I hated season six of “Lost.” Sorry Damon. Rabid Losties, this post is about Star Trek so cut me some slack.

Even though I liked Star Trek “09, I’ve criticized it. The announcement that they are going to go deeper in the next film brings joy to this Trekker. If I can paraphrase Leonard Nimoy, the best Trek worked on multiple levels. There was adventure. There was fun. There was intelligent science fiction.

Take a look at “The City On The Edge of Forever.” There was adventrue. Trying to figure out what the Guardian was and the fact you could take journeys through time was intriguing. There was humor. Explaining Spock’s ears to a 1930’s policeman was funny. There was intelligent science fiction. McCoy changes the timeline and KIrk must sacrifice his love for the greater good. And check out Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. (1986) Adventure. Time travel. Humor. The fish out of water story for our heroes. Smart science fiction. Save the whales, save the world.

Going deeper does not mean it won’t be successful. See “Dark Knight.” See “Inception.” Thank you Damon, you’re gaining my confidence. Now, let’s find a way to keep the interest up till 2012. How about a direct to DVD story with the voice of William Shatner and his CGI image deaged to be released in late 2011? How about using the story from the abandoned video game “Secret of Vulcan Fury” written by D.C. Fontana? (Link to information on the game below.)


34. Harry Ballz - August 24, 2010


Don’t forget, if they make them flatulent lizards they can call it Gorn With The Wind!

35. Bib - August 24, 2010

The producers (the moneybags) won’t let “deeper” happen. What we will see is more romance, probably a dumb love triangle or two. They’ll also throw in a few Jar-Jar Binks-type “ethnic” characters for yuks.

36. Remington Steele - August 24, 2010

Sometimes I just ask myself, “Why do i even bother reading the comments???”

37. Phaser Guy - August 24, 2010

yeah me too.

38. Kelly Valletta - August 24, 2010

J.J. Abrams, Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman need to surpass the last film and rectify the mistakes that they made because as much as it was a tremendous film, I was still privately disappointed because it could have easily have been so much better. Larger all-star cast as well as many cameos including by William Shatner, larger space battles with more starships, James Kirk having better fighting skills and several (human love interests) and the Jerry Goldsmith theme music from the Star Trek Insurrection end credits used at the end.

Four stunningly beautiful and talented actresses were wasted in the last movie and should have had more screentime. Jennifer Morrison only appeared at the beginning and we don’t find out what happened to her, Rachel Nichols was only in it for three minutes and we don’t find out what happened to her, Winona Ryder was in it for nearly ten minutes and was needlessly killed off and Diora Baird’s only scene was cut.

The Jerry Goldsmith theme music from the Star Trek Insurrection end credits should have been used at the end. The Original Series theme music and new theme music in the movie was unnecessary. The soundtrack was disappointing overall. ‘Labour of Love’ was the best part of it.

39. Malin Calcagno - August 24, 2010

The Orion Syndicate who should be the villains of the sequel as they are essentially the Mafia of the Star Trek universe, involved in piracy, smuggling, and extortion.

I hope that Lady Gaga has a cameo. With her futuristic music and style, she would fit right in. Midway through Star Trek 12, I’d like to see Kirk, Spock and McCoy go undercover to a concert of hers on a distant planet like with Diva Plavalaguna in The Fifth Element (1997). Her character (the most famous and successful singer in the Alpha Quadrant) could have dark connections to the Orion Syndicate. An explosively intense, thunderous phaser fight could erupt interrupting the show when she sings Bad Romance, Paparazzi, Poker Face or Just Dance between Kirk, Spock and McCoy and some Orion Syndicate henchmen.

40. Shantel Vergara - August 24, 2010

I hope that there are no cut scenes in the sequel. All of the cut scenes should have been included in the last film. J.J. Abrams made a bad call removing the Rura Penthe scenes. He said that the test audiences were confused by those scenes in particular. I am at a loss as to what was so confusing about the inclusion of the Klingons in the film. It was absolutely shocking to leave such a huge plot hole regarding where the villains were for 25 years. It makes them look lazy and stupid on top of the fact that they were superficial. Nero and Ayel would have had more depth at least as well.

41. Trekprincess - August 24, 2010

I didn’t have any problems with Trek 09 some are just overly critical

42. S. John Ross - August 24, 2010


Entirely agreed.

It was gratifying to watch both the interviewer and Lindelof pretty much immediately acknowledge that the “highfalutin hat” was a response to Avatar, even if that’s a bit sad/ironic, given hat Avatar was treading territory that Star Trek used to be known for. Avatar’s success seems to have morphed the tone of the party-line from “an obvious message would doom our movie to niche status and only a fanboy lacking our Big-Time Movie Wisdom would think otherwise” to “oh, right … that movie that wailed our butts at the box office had an obvious message. Hm. Oh.”

And that song is STILL stuck in my head.

43. StelArian - August 24, 2010

Looks like they are on then right track! (crossed fingers)

44. Holo J - August 24, 2010

40. Shantel Vergara – August 24, 2010

I agree those cut scenes should have stayed in the movie.

45. YARN - August 24, 2010

We will boldly “go one step beyond” by copying The Dark Knight.


It’s easy enough to say that you are going to something like another film. There are a lot of bad films that are advertised as being “In the tradition of ‘X'”.

Almost seems to indicate a lack of creative confidence.

46. John - August 24, 2010

if their “message” beats the audience over the head with its simplicity as much as Avatar did, it will be a disaster.

Glad to see they’re looking to Nolan and not Cameron.

47. Phobos - August 24, 2010

I love ST but I am a realist. ST II will get nowhere near Dark Knight’s 1 billion$. I expect it to be 400 to 450 million worldwide.

The writers are going to overthink it.
The writers have already slacked off (took on too many distracting projects). I suspect they are overconfident (a classic mistake).
Abrams’ is aiming too high.
Paramount is expecting too much money.
Fans are setting expectations too high.

48. Phobos - August 24, 2010

And Kirk should be in it for one final goodbye.

49. philpot - August 24, 2010

38/39 – are you the same guy?

every sequel thread i seem to end up reading about how the four beautiful actresses were wasted, how they shouldve used the Star Trek Insurrection end theme (why specifically the Insurrection one? – dont FC, INS, NEM and even TMP and TFF all have the same end theme?!) and how Lady Gaga should appear as a Fifth Element style character singing Poker Face

50. AJ - August 24, 2010

I would think Mr. Lindelof’s “DK” references are coming straight from Paramount. They’re getting huge numbers out of Transformers, Iron Man and Indiana Jones, and expecting Trek to deliver on that level as well.

This means either dumb it down for the kids, or keep it for adults and re-sophisticate it by adding Lindelof himself, of LOST, to the writers’ team., while maintaining the quality character work done by Orci/Kurzmann.

While I was not a fan of LOST, I am not a detractor, and I enjoyed the twists and turns of the 50-or-so eps I saw. And keeping a good mystery going for years is not easy. What will be harder is finding an appropriate allegory and not whacking us over the head with it.

51. philpot - August 24, 2010

the sequel should have Nero team up with Maximillion and Dr Reinhardt

52. Kinneas - August 24, 2010

You want to make it real? Tie it into with current events.

Tie it into current UFOlogy, Exopolitics & some of the the heavy hitting 2012 Sumerian/Babylonian mythos stories (not associated with end of the world).

When current UFOlogy reports & real Exoploitical discussion on the alien races out there right now are more exciting than the sci-fi being produced…something is wrong.

Reconcile Trek folks…or anything you do to try and make it ‘real’ will fail.

53. mr. montgomery scott - August 24, 2010

I love this news. It’s exciting!

54. Mattybuk - August 24, 2010

I would like the klingons to be beefed up. More than drunken thugs

55. Trekprincess - August 24, 2010

Just make it like Trek 09

56. Dac - August 24, 2010

to @boborci or anyone else who’s watching.

Balance of Terror. Rewatch it again.

“You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.”

Come on, it mentions another reality in the goddamn line, that line is ripe for picking. Its obscure enough so Joe public wouldnt notice it, but means enough so the trekkies would go wild. Have the Klingons attack some romulans, and Kirk goes into save them, then the reverse of that line is pretty much a natural extension of that encounter.

Then again, your the writers. Feel free to ignore me :)

57. BEYOND THE DEEP ONES - August 24, 2010


I would agree with you, but I’m sick of romulans. they were heavily used in the last two movie. I want something fresh for trek twelve,

and I want some Andorian renegades as antagonists…. but that’s just me ;)

58. Shunnabunich - August 24, 2010

If the new “Enterprise” had a bumper sticker, I imagine it would say something like “Back off or I’ll flush!”

59. Xavier - August 24, 2010

Take some risks guys! Blow up the ship!!! Kill off a few characters.
It is a whole new timeline, surprise us! Create new characters to replace old ones!

Take some risks!!! Don’t play it safe!

60. Captain Dunsel - August 24, 2010

How can they possibly go “One Step Beyond” without John Newland?

(Oops. I think I just gave away my age…)

61. star trackie - August 24, 2010

Enough with the over-analyzation of The Dark Knight already…Trek succeeded. It is its very own enity, we don’t need the constant comparrsions to Casino Royal and Batman Begins anymore. The reboot worked. Now lets work on the sequel to STAR TREK and stop worrying about why The Dark Knight made a bazillion dollars. Because it was a good movie? Because Christain Bale grumbled alot? Because Heath Ledger died? Nobody knows, if they did we would see a similar occurance every opening weekend.

Bob and company…just follow your instincts, don’t obsess over it and do your best to deliver more of the same.

62. Mel - August 24, 2010

Domestic: $205,343,774 55.1%
+ Foreign: $167,366,241 44.9%
= Worldwide: $372,710,015

Domestic: $533,345,358 53.2%
+ Foreign: $468,576,467 46.8%
= Worldwide: $1,001,921,825

Domestic: $257,730,019 66.9%
+ Foreign: $127,764,536 33.1%
= Worldwide: $385,494,555

Star Trek really made a small percentage of its gross outside of the USA. Batman Begins may have overall made less money, but it made 40 million more in the foreign market. There is really a big growth potential outside of the USA for Star Trek. They really should properly advertise the sequel there for a change!

63. AJ - August 24, 2010

And so we have the new ‘nickname’ for ST2012: Star Trek: One Step Beyond

Teaser trailer: Fade in the Bat Signal shrouded in cloud and grimy smoke.

Graphic: ‘Summer 2012. The Legend Returns’

Cue music: “Hey you! Don’t watch that! Watch this!”

Enterprise warps through it



64. flushed away by borgified rats - August 24, 2010

hmmmm… interesting

65. Sebastian - August 24, 2010

To me, the article simply implies that the new movie is going to take it’s scope and intensity up to another level, but it really doesn’t say anything about making it ‘darker.’ I don’t really think one has to infer that they are using the Dark Knight’s story as a template. The folks in charge are smarter than that. They’re probably just turning up the intensity knob a bit…

I don’t think we’ll see Admiral Pike turn into Two-Face anytime soon…

66. Vger23 - August 24, 2010

I see that once again, people hear something like “we want to make it like the Dark Knight movie” and take it FAR to literally, invoking Trekkie panic-attacks and nit-picking all over the place.

All they mean by that is that they want to emulate the idea of taking an origin story “Batman Begins / Trek 09″ and expanding upon the groundwork laid out there by “upping the game” with the themes, characters, and scope (like TDK).

It will be fine. Everyone needs to relax. There won’t be a Trekmobiel. There won’t be a Klingon villian who laughs like a lunatic and puts criminals on one space barge and regular Federation citizens on another…making Kirk choose who will live and who will die.

Relax. It will be okay. They’re just talking about expanding on the groundwork established in the first film and building a really good self-contained story off of that…with heavier character arcs and themes than they could pull off in the first one. THAT’s what they’re talking about.

67. falcon - August 24, 2010

@8 Anthony – geez, thanks for that. Now I do feel old. (Didn’t know they also did “Our House,” though.)

@21 – I think the Harvey Dent character was possibly the most human one in the entire film. Batman/Bruce Wayne was beginning to become one-dimensional (and his “end justifies the means” deus ex machina was, frankly, more like Frank Miller’s Dark Knight), and the Joker was a cardboard caricature brought wonderfully to life by Ledger. But Dent showed what can happen when someone with the best of intentions is pushed too far. Perhaps that is the sort of template that Orci, Lindelof, Kurtzman, et.al, can use for the antagonist (let’s not call him/her/it a “villain”) in the next film.

Why couldn’t it be Pike? Have him pull a Decker midway through the film and take it in a direction we never saw coming? Hmmm?

68. Hugh Hoyland - August 24, 2010

The problem I have with AVATAR is while I agree that the environment needs to be protected, IMO JC used that nobel cause as a cover to disseminate a poltical philosophy (class warfare ect). Which is all well and fine (First Amendment) but dont try to sell me something with a curve on it, be straight up about it.

As far as going deeper, again it comes down to definition, what does he think deeper is. Some think the Dark Knight was deep/dark, others thought it was a glorified CSI episode.

69. ensign joe - August 24, 2010

Yeah boborci.. did you ever say WHY you didn’t care for TDK?

Hope the writing is going well..

70. OMNI - August 24, 2010

What does it matter what they would do in a sequel? They have ruined the concept of Star Trek by making it just another shoot-em-up space opera and failing to instill the story with high moral purpose. What are they going to call it, Star Trek: The Wrath of Abrams Ego? That’s all I saw on screen last year was special effects and a god-awful, muddy soundtrack — not to mention lense flares and shoddy camera work. Huge budget but a brewery for an engine room? Who was the production designer behind this travesty? Let’s just say it came nowhere close to Wah Chang, Matt Jefferies, or Bob Justman, not to mention the Great Bird of the Galaxy! It’s time for Abrams and crew to go back to TV work and let this franchise die a natural death.

71. Desstruxion - August 24, 2010

Let’s have one heck of a battle in this one so big E (after major damage) can be refitted in the third one.

72. Kinneas - August 24, 2010


I agree with everything but the last statement.

There will be more change in the next forty years than there has been in the last two-thousand years.

Star Trek still has a mission as it did in the 60’s. To get people ready for what is coming. I do not think this group (Abrams & Co.) understands that though.

Other than breaking out the power icons (Kirk & Spock) they (Abrams & co & the franchise holders) demonstrated no understanding of how to use the icons to mobilize a national and international identity.

Star Trek has yet to have its finest hour (if it is the right hands).

73. CmdrR - August 24, 2010

boborci — always good to see you braving the savages.

I’m glad you’re being ambitious for the second one. But, please don’t discount the value of a small-scope story as a chance to expand the characters. The universe doesn’t have to be “on the verge of winking out” every time our favorite crew shows up. They can just be dealing with human stuff. Anyway — still seems a looooong way off.

74. Horatio - August 24, 2010

I loved Batman Begins. I hated The Dark Knight. As you can imagine the comparison concerns me.

I know i’m in the minority, but I thought Dark Knight was hugely overrated. It was a good enough popcorn action movie, I guess, but it was loud and dark and half the time I couldn’t understand a word Christian Bale was saying. Heath Ledger did a good Joker but for the life of me I don’t get what all the buzz was about. You’d have thought Ledger had brought Shakespear to Batman the way his performance had been hyped.

So whats next for the Trek sequel, Pike gets exposed to deadly delta radiation that scars his face, paralyzes him and turns him into a galactic supervillain?

There. I said it.

75. Horatio - August 24, 2010

#63 – You are probably right and I hadn’t read your post by the time I had made my ‘I hate Dark Knight’ posting above. Its just that I still don’t see how DK got deeper or took the Batman franchise to the next level – other than making lots of money.

BTW, I thought Superman Returns was a great film. So what do I know?

76. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - August 24, 2010

GOOD LUCK Team BOB!!! The weight of generations of Star Trek fans weighs heavely on your shoulders. I am confident you will NOT let us down.

77. I, Mugsy - August 24, 2010

I still think rebooting Trek as a series of films was a BIG mistake! Not in terms of the quality of the production or anything like that, but in terms of how long one has to wait between adventures.

The next film will be over 3 years later – will the crew already be into their 5 year mission? If so taking into acount their ages surely they’ll be a couple years into it already and we’ll have “missed” a lot of important character develoment moments. After this film it’ll be another 3 year wait and so on. In that time some cast members are bound to drop out or move onto other things. With a TV series one has the chance to stick with the cast as they (in tandem with their characters) grow into the roles.

With the 3 year gap between movies the 5 year mission will be over in no-time at all, and we’ll suddenly be into a different Trek ‘era’ (i.e. after the 5-year mission) after only 2 or 3 films. As with the original cast the actors/actresses age faster than the stories… i.e. in the first TOS film the Enterprise is new and the pride of the Fleet. In the 3rd film she’s to be decommissioned. In the 4th film we get a new Enterprise. In the 6th film, she’s to be… decommissioned…..!

Wouldn’t it make more sense to do a couple of films back-to-back in each case now there’s a new cast which everyone has taken to?

I, M

78. NuFan - August 24, 2010

But the whiners will whine regardless. Yes, they were pretending they wanted a deeper and more meaningful story. But now that it’s coming they will just whine about something different. They pick random “flaws” out of a hat. Though I do think post 70 is a hilarious parody of precisely that mindset.

79. Bernd Schneider - August 24, 2010

#14 “For whatever reason, the filmmakers apparently just can’t get themselves to look past The Wrath of Khan for inspiration.”

I couldn’t agree more. The statistics: 8.5 out of 11 movies had the crew struggle against an evil overlord – customarily a single person who seeks revenge, who pursues his megalomaniac goals with ruthlessness and with formidable superweapons and who always dies in fulfillment of the expectation of poetic justice in a big plume of fire (the .5 is “Star Trek V”). In 8 out of 11 movies a catastrophe happened that destroyed a whole planet (or was imminent). Compare that to the five Trek series where these tropes were extremely rare!

If Abrams and company really want to revive the franchise they should take some inspiration from Trek on TV (and by “inspiration” I don’t mean namedropping), instead of trying to outperform the evilness of previous villains and the extent of destruction with every new movie.

80. philpot - August 24, 2010

i think i speak for most Trek fans here when i say in the sequel we must have an action scene shoot up set in a night Club with Beyonce

e.g. An explosively intense, thunderous phaser fight could erupt between Kirk, Spock and McCoy and some henchmen interrupting the show when she sings ‘If u like it u shoulda put a ring on it’ or ‘If I was a Booooy’…

also the end theme to Star Trek V must be used for the end credits…there is no reason i can think of for this other than it must be used..

81. Lore - August 24, 2010

#75 50 lashes for you. Singerman Returns should be erased form everyone’s memory. Having said that, I like your Pike villian idea.

82. John from Cincinnati - August 24, 2010

I totally understand what they mean by bigger and deeper Trek, not darker. They are using the Dark Knight as a comparison in scope and expectations, which I totally agree with and support. Just because it’s called ‘Dark Knight’ don’t make the literal assumption the sequel will be darker.

83. Locutus - August 24, 2010

I don’t care about the sequel one way or another. nuTrek or whatever people are calling it these days just doesn’t resonate with me.

84. StarFuryG7 - August 24, 2010

It’s ridiculous to talk about the Trek franchise “going dark” and taking a step away from Roddenberry’s optimistic vision supposedly when Vulcan was destroyed in the first movie and six billion beings were wiped out in an instant.

85. philpot - August 24, 2010

85 – would that make ST09 the highest body count movie ever?

86. Eric - August 24, 2010

Next movie:

1. Easy on the lens flare.
2. Get rid of Scott’s sidekick
3. Make Scotty more serious and less like comic relief.

87. The Riddler - August 24, 2010

Just remember JJ

it’s the characters stupid.
Kirk, Spock and Bones and a little ship named Enterprise.

88. John from Cincinnati - August 24, 2010

Next movie:

1. Cut the lens flares
2. Scotty should be serious professional first, comic relief second
3. Have a feel for being on the “frontier”
4. Show the importance and meaning of the Federation, an exploration and peacekeeping armada. Later in the franchise the Federation became the enemy (see: Insurrection). In the original series, the Federation always ended up doing the right thing (See: Amok Time)
5. Make it fun, good Star Trek was always fun. Swashbuckling adventure, cognitive science fiction, thought-provoking moral dilemmas.
6. Lose the iBridge
7. Fix Engineering
8. Lose the flip phone phasers
9. Show the importance of the Prime Directive
10. Star Trek is supposed to be our society’s moral compass, or at least, where we want our society to evolve to in the future.

89. P Technobabble - August 24, 2010

I never saw the Dark Knight in the theater, but I eventually broke down and rented it from Netflix. I thought the movie was ok, but, IMO, it did not live up to the hype surrounding it. When it was over, I wondered “what are people seeing in this film that I am not?” There were some good bits. I am a huge fan of both Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman, but their scenes were hardly the stuff “memorable” is made of. Heath Ledger did an outstanding job of turning the Joker into a real, believable mad-man character, as opposed to Nicholson’s portrayal of a comic book Joker. And I found Christian Bale’s portrayal of Bruce/Batman to be terribly one-dimensional. And like Spiderman 3, the addition of the Scarecrow;s capture and Harvey Dent becoming Two-Face seemed like overkill. Isn’t one villain enough? I think, to some degree, the film attracted further interest following the death of Ledger. Also, I didn’t think the film looked that much darker than Tim Burton’s Batman, and it had about as much death and destruction as any number of other action flicks, so I’m not really sure what all this “dark” talk is referring to. It just seemed pretty average to me. My 2 cents, of course…

90. NuFan - August 24, 2010

83. 84.

Hee-hee. It’s great to be right. It’s like they’re stuck on autopilot or something.

91. Trekprincess - August 24, 2010

I loved everything about Trek 09 why do so many dislike the movie

92. John - August 24, 2010

Some people here are so funny.

93. Trekprincess - August 24, 2010

88. Wow that’s a lot of things you want to be right in the sequel was it not good enough Trek 09

94. Dlope - August 24, 2010

The sequel should focus on the shattering of Vulcan… what happens when you piss off a bunch of repressed Vulcans by blowing up their world. I dare say a group of renegade angry Vulcan survivors with a huge chip on their shoulders is something to fear, continues the arc started with ST09, would allow for some enormous character development with Spock, and be a story well worth telling.

Is everyone missing that this the clear, obvious evolution of events from ST09?

Doug L

95. John from Cincinnati - August 24, 2010


It’s disappointing when you watch something and you know it could be so much better. Think of it like this, the best TOS was ‘City on the Edge of Forever’ and then watch “Spock’s Brain” right after it. I’m not comparing ST09 to ‘Spock’s Brain” but there is a lot of room for improvement. This article is about taking Trek to the next level for the sequel. Have you read the article? It talks about expanding the scope of the characters and the story and this is coming from the producers, not the fans. So, since that is where they want to go (keep pushing the envelope, make it better) then as a fan knowing the writers read the posts on here, I am adding my 2 cents.

96. Dlope - August 24, 2010

and PS… also think the Dark Knight was waaay over-rated.

97. Dlope - August 24, 2010

Also, while I enjoyed Star Trek 09, I also agree with many posters, that this movie could have been much more solid. As with any movie, the story-telling is diluted when you rely too heavily on coincidence and convenient plot contrivances to further the story. I feel Trek 09 is guilty of this, but on the flip side, they did a lot right too, and I think we’re moving in the right direction.

Doug L.

98. I'm Dead Jim! - August 24, 2010

@94 – That’s not a bad idea but I don’t really want to see an “arc” movie, especially since we apparently have to wait three years for a sequel. Story arcs are great for TV series but I’d like to see a great stand alone story with maybe just some passing references to what came before, if necessary. Unless they do it like they did the last two Matrix movies with just a couple of months apart, which I would like to see. Hell, just do a damn kick-ass TV series already!!!!

99. Zebonka - August 24, 2010

“possibly abandoning the classic Roddenberry Trek optimism aspirations of the 2009 Star Trek”

Classic … what!?

I didn’t dislike the movie as such, but Roddenberry it wasn’t. And that’s fine, because he’s dead and everything, and Star Trek has never really been solely his creation anyway. Still, seems a strange place to mention him.

100. Trekprincess - August 24, 2010

Off course the movie could have been more solid but I think as a newcomer to the Trek franchise it was great :0)

101. skyjedi - August 24, 2010

As long as there is no star wars prequel like stuff in the next movie, i am excited to see it.

102. John from Cincinnati - August 24, 2010

Well I’m not 12 years old or talk like it, I am old enough to remember the original animated series on television first run. Star Trek has been with me longer than a lot of people posting on here. Star Trek’s heart and soul is about having an optimistic future. Humanity has survived and thrives in the future. The speed of light barrier has been broken. Famine has been eradicated. The pursuit of wealth is no longer the driving force of our species. So, whether it’s Gene Roddenberry or JJ Arbrams, these are the values that must be adhered to when making Star Trek. It is these values that separates it from other sci-fi such as Star Wars, Alien, Bladerunner, Dune, etc. So like, even though like Gene Roddenberry is dead and everything, like Star Trek should totally be like optimistic and everything.

103. somethoughts - August 24, 2010

Star Trek II Screams epic

Someone should use the inception music and make a Star Trek 2009 trailer, that would be hawt.

104. Dlope - August 24, 2010

re 98 (dead jim)…

I hear ya on the stand alone. I’m over arcs too, though I must say, the destruction of Vulcan is just too huge a story not to run with. Very curious how they’ll address it in the sequel.

re 102. (cincinnati)

I feel that. I’m all about Trek optimism. It largely informed the way I view the world and ideas of tolerance. Living in NYC with our big ground zero Mosque debate, I wish more people grew up watching Trek and understanding it…

Doug L.

105. Desstruxion - August 24, 2010

Bring on V’ger. This time loaded with Borg. Have Khan be their Locutus.

106. oogaboogawooga - August 24, 2010

14. General Chang was a villain, not in the manner of Khan. Another film in the manner of STVI (emotional story also functioning as an allegory) would be awesome.

107. I'm Dead Jim! - August 24, 2010

@105 Ha ha!!!! That’s it!!! Khan and his band of augments get assimilated and ride into the JJ-verse on V’ger!!

108. StarMan127 - August 24, 2010

Why won’t Paramount get some “balls” and make four movies at the same time. Abrahms Star Trek, Voyager Movie, Enterprise Movie and a Deep Space Nine Movie. The other versions of trek have had a big screen presence. They should really blow the franchise so huge that is knocks everyone’s socks off. And do it before they all get to old to be presentable on the big screen.

109. Hugh Hoyland - August 24, 2010

You know its coming, Star Wars Vs Star Trek, or SVS, Kirk and Vader battle it out to the end! :]

110. Jeff R. - August 24, 2010

Star Trek often is very literary and I hope that is brought into the writing. I think it’s a powerful statement that in the future our heroes are not only scientifically brilliant and physically adroit, but also well-formed in the humanities. A good starship captain needs to be able to quote Shakespeare. A good science officer should also be a violin virtuoso.

Bob & the writing team… please feel free to steal this idea… I always thought it would be a cool open to a Star Trek film seeing our command crew aboard a racing sailboat (think intense, America’s cup style boats, very modern, with Enterprise across the stern of course), competing in the Star Fleet Regatta off the California coast against other starship crews. High winds, high waves, fast boats, fierce competition… a great Starfleet tradition! And a cool set piece to show the crew working and playing together off the bridge.

111. trekprincess - August 24, 2010

well I am 22 actually wish I was introduced to Trek a lot sooner

112. James - August 24, 2010

Get Tom Hanks in there some how as Commodore Matt Decker (set it up perfectly for the doomsday machine!)

I know – im dreaming!!

113. Happy Russia - August 24, 2010

I wish that they’d stop comparing what would be Trek 12 to The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight was a good film, with so many times more the amount of emotion, morality and intelligence. I only hope that the writers will just opt out a villain. No villain. Pure and simple! And if you MUST have a villain, don’t make it over the top. Don’t give him or her a half-assed motivation, some hammy anger issues and a ridiculously-powered vessel. Make it an internal villain, someone subtle, behind the scenes. Hell, you could consider an internal conflict between characters as a villain, just make their struggle an emotional and character-driven one. Which means that the writers will actually have to have the Enterprise crew acting like they should, and not out-of-character. Nearly everyone in Trek XI was out-of-character, save for McCoy and maybe Sulu. Spock is half-human, we get it, don’t shove all these emotions in his face and then have him ACT human. He had no logic in the last film! Hell, I’ll settle for a different take on Sybok for the next film! A personal villain, one that doesn’t have to be over-the-top, and can provide a deep and sweeping adventure for the crew. Not a petty, shallow, forgettable villain.

114. Losira - August 24, 2010

#88 said everything in a nut shell. All I was thinking. And hey batman and star trek are 2 differant worlds it would be difficult to compare. I just have to add, keep it family friendly, trek is for everybody to share.

115. Basement Blogger - August 24, 2010

@ 112 James- I’ve always said that Norman Spinrad’s “The Doomsday Machine” would be a great episode to expand. And there would be a message there about the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.

Hey fellow Trekkers, think about the galaxy in the Abrams Timeline. The Federation has been weakened because the Vulcans are almost all gone. Our allies are the Tellarites and Andorians. Will the humans dominate the Federation? Would that be a good or bad thing? Human dominance was an issue in the game Mass Effect 2.

And what about the Klingons and Romulans? Are they going to try to carve up Federation territory? If either tries to take advantage, would there be war between say the Federation and Klingons or Romulans? Since Klingons and Romulans hate each other, think of the possible war between them over Federation territory. It looks like an unstable Alpha Quadrant .

Oh, and one last thing. Some of you are talking about Borg appearances in the Abrams Timeline. (I’d rather not see the Borg in the coming sequel since they are a TNG advesary.) Realize that according to the official prequel and excellent graphic novel “Countdown” (story by Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman) Nero’s ship was enhanced with Borg technology, hence its advanced weaponry. And the Borg have made an appearance in the 22nd century (?) in the “Enterprise” episode “Regeneration.” Just more food for thought.

116. Vultan - August 24, 2010

The reason TDK was successful was the same reason TWOK was successful—they were both well-crafted, character-driven stories with a great (cunning) villain. So, as long as the filmmakers keep the focus on the characters in the next Trek movie and not on some flashy special effects extravaganza with the occasional juvenile joke (look, mom, big hands!), the movie will resonate with audiences, especially the older audience, and then it could rake in enough money to buy Pandora and Gotham City combined! ;)

117. NuFan - August 24, 2010

Actually, Dark Knight’s villain was a standard one-note looney. Khan and Nero at least had reasons for their rage.

118. Captain Dunsel - August 24, 2010

#8 Thanks Anthony,

You know that is *exactly* what popped into my head once I saw the headline :)

PS Still rocks!

119. Vultan - August 24, 2010


Um, maybe you should watch TDK again. Ledger’s Joker was far from one-note. He had his reasons, as he explained to Two-Face and later Batman. I don’t remember the exact wording, but essentially he wanted to prove that deep down everyone is a demented, self-serving animal. In particular he wanted to prove this in Harvey Dent/Two-Face by showing that even Gotham’s “white knight” was capable of becoming a murderous vigilante—doing what Batman wouldn’t do.

As for Joker’s background, take your pick. Personally, I like the one about his father—“Why so serious?”

120. Dlope - August 24, 2010

117 – Nero’s reasons were sketchy to me. Yes Romulus blew up, but it was their exploding sun that was the culprit… All Spock did was try to help prevent it. Even having read Countdown, I felt Nero’s rage was misplaced thereby devolving him into nothing more than a madmen hellbent on making everyone else suffer.

Another theme running through this thread is the unending desire people have to see classic episodes rehashed in this new timeline. I can’t think of anything that would bore me more. I love classic, and i want all new adventures that flow naturally out of good storytelling. That doesn’t mean side players can’t be in it, but let’s not make that the driving motivation for the coming features.

Doug L.

121. Denise de Arman - August 24, 2010

Shirtless Kirk and Spock in the next film – if they can show Uhura in a bra, take the shirts off the boys!

122. roy - August 24, 2010

108. If you provided Paramount with $1 billion dollars then they just might do it.

123. trekprincess - August 24, 2010

I am just going to ignore the film’s detractors there’s too many always have something negative to say it always has to be the cast,story everything sigh

124. dmduncan - August 24, 2010

I would just like to know if they have actually settled on a story, or it’s more like they have an idea but are not sure it’s going to work so it’s not that settled yet?

125. StarFuryG7 - August 24, 2010

#89. P Technobabble –
“I never saw the Dark Knight in the theater, but I eventually broke down and rented it from Netflix. I thought the movie was ok, but, IMO, it did not live up to the hype surrounding it.”

Oh, for heaven sake –I saw it in the theater and I thought it was Great …absolutely phenomenal, and I wasn’t a fan of ‘Batman Begins’ at all, which I didn’t even see in a movie theater. I waited until it was already out on DVD for a while before checking it out, and I thought that movie was incredibly overhyped by comparison. ‘The Dark Knight’ on the other hand had everything going for it that a Batman movie should have going for it, right up to the super-sophistic

“Heath Ledger did an outstanding job of turning the Joker into a real, believable mad-man character, as opposed to Nicholson’s portrayal of a comic book Joker. And I found Christian Bale’s portrayal of Bruce/Batman to be terribly one-dimensional. ated network that he uses to monitor the city and zero in on the Joker.”

Here I agree with you on each of your points. In fact, I felt Ledger’s Joker was so good that I couldn’t imagine myself ever watching another actor in that role ever again, and I wasn’t big on him when he was first cast for the role. He really managed to change my mind once I saw the movie however, which was certainly to his credit –a shame he had to die so young before the picture even came out.

“It just seemed pretty average to me. My 2 cents, of course…”

Everyone has their own opinion of course. Speaking for myself, I was never a big Batman fan, nor of Comic Book Superhero movies in general for that matter. “The Dark Knight” proved to be a rare and incredible exception for me though, but I have to say that “Inception,” also written and directed by Chris Nolan, has been an incredibly overrated movie in my personal view. The guy is good with action, but the picture was too convoluted overall.

126. StarFuryG7 - August 24, 2010

#91. Trekprincess
“I loved everything about Trek 09 why do so many dislike the movie”

Because it was okay as a popcorn action flick, but it wasn’t very good “Star Trek”.

127. dmduncan - August 24, 2010

Necrotic-skinned spandex wearing cybernetic humanoids from across the galaxy is something I’d rather never see in Star Trek again.

“You will be assimilated.” Good idea for a baddie modus operandi. Poverty stricken execution.

128. Lore - August 24, 2010

#121 Regarding shirtless guys. I suppose Kirk could be in a situation on a planet, running for his life and loses his torn shirt, meanwhile Spock is present in the transporter room when Scotty beams Kirk out, then Spock can look at Kirk and utter “I see you managed to lose your shirt”.

Wait, they already did that in Galaxy Quest.

129. Vultan - August 24, 2010



And I never understood why once Nero was through the black (time) hole he didn’t just step around the Kelvin and set course for Romulus. By introducing Borg tech to 23rd century Romulans, they could conquer the galaxy—or at least the Feds and Klingons. Isn’t that what every good Rommie wants?

130. StarFuryG7 - August 24, 2010

:::Sigh::: I just don’t understand why these boards do the things they do sometimes . . .

This is a reposting of the portion of message #125 that was apparently lost somehow.

125. StarFuryG7 – August 24, 2010
#89. P Technobabble –
“I never saw the Dark Knight in the theater, but I eventually broke down and rented it from Netflix. I thought the movie was ok, but, IMO, it did not live up to the hype surrounding it.”

Oh, for heaven sake –I saw it in the theater and I thought it was Great …absolutely phenomenal, and I wasn’t a fan of ‘Batman Begins’ at all, which I didn’t even see in a movie theater. I waited until it was already out on DVD for a while before checking it out, and I thought that movie was incredibly overhyped by comparison. ‘The Dark Knight’ on the other hand had everything going for it that a Batman movie should have going for it, right up to the super-sophisticated network that he uses to monitor the city and zero in on the Joker.

131. Lore - August 24, 2010

#105 You forgot to put the kitchen sink in there.

132. Do You Wanna Dance - August 24, 2010

Commander Robert April.

Passed on promotion and was given to Captain Pike to helm the Enterprise on its first mission.

Hell-bent on retribution, April leads a sabotage from within the Federation and conspires with a Klingon faction to coordinate a devastating ambush on a critical outpost with Starfleet’s most heavily-guarded research facility and one of their most brilliant scientists.

With the death of Admiral Pike and the outpost in ruins, the new crew of the Enterprise must square off against the traitorous Starfleet officer and his renegade armada to save the scientist that holds the future of the Alpha Quadrant.

You can thank me later, and unlike Star Wars’ David Prowse, I’ll take a cut from the gross profits, not net.

133. Lore - August 24, 2010

#129 Nero didn’t know he had went back in time until the Kelvin’s Capt told him the star date. Of course in the original story, the explosion of the Kelvin damaged the Narada and Klingons moved in and captured it.

134. Craig-Put phasers on stun. - August 24, 2010

Don’t go to dark, Star Trek is about the characters and the tongue-in-cheek hummer, I’m not a fan of the doom and gloom, there is enough of that in real life, TV and movies today. Star Trek is an escape, don’t forget that.

135. Lore - August 24, 2010

#117 Why So Serious?

136. Vultan - August 24, 2010


Okay, so all those fancy 24th century Borg/Romulan computers couldn’t look at the star charts and calculate what year it was? Well, maybe they were off-line due to the trip throught the black hole, but still Nero or one of his comrades could’ve put together that they’d traveled back in time just from looking at the antique Kelvin sitting in front of them. Yes? No? Maybe…

Also, maybe my memory fails me, but was it ever explained in the movie or comic book how Nero got his hands on the red matter? Just wondering…

137. Disinvited - August 24, 2010


Wasn’t that something Kirk Prime learned on the Farragut when was assigned to security?

Rules of engagement:

Step One: If you want to survive the fight, lose the (red) shirt.

138. Lore - August 24, 2010

#136 He acquired it when he captured Spock Prime’s ship. Maybe you should do as Shatner finally did, and watch the movie.

139. Vultan - August 24, 2010

I also wish there had been a more blatant acknowledgement in Trek ’09 that it was a different universe, with one of the Enterprise crewmembers saying, “Yeah, it’s different all right. Just look at this bridge. Herman Zimmerman DID NOT design this!”


140. Vultan - August 24, 2010


Nah, I saw it in the theater. That was enough for me.

141. ensign joe - August 24, 2010

“Also, maybe my memory fails me, but was it ever explained in the movie or comic book how Nero got his hands on the red matter? Just wondering…”

He got it when Spock let it fall into Nero’s hands by failing to engage the self destruct on the Squid.. very un-spockish.. maybe because they beamed him off the Squid he didn’t have time to.. oh..

142. Mister James T Snell - August 24, 2010

I hope the new story or possibly whole new universe it a lot darker and subsequently real. The utopic ideas of the Federation and the ideals of Starfleet were part of a message and a vision that Roddenbury was trying to inspire the world towards. That’s great and I think that message has been transmitted successfully.

In moving forward, I’d like to see a universe with a lot more depth to it. More politics, more brains, more pain. I think Nero was a hard to believe character, but a big freakin improvement over past villans like Shinzon. There’s nothing more insulting than an unrealistic villian.

I’d encourage whomever’s writing new Trek to study historical trends in people we now perceive as villans, such as Hilter, Stalin and Bush (had to throw that in, lol). Draft up a story with parallels from reality. Hey, it worked well for Lucas.

I’d also like the technology to be more rusted out and cruel. I want to see slowly ripping metal, gasses escaping, plasma leaking on to people and burning them in to screaming piles of regret.

I’d consider using a pirates view for inspiration.

Have the Federation grow corrupt and self-defeating, litter the scene with warlords and illustrate how looking after one’s own and staying the course on your principles is damned powerful. I’m talking exile, revolution, loyalty, virtue.

Some other sources to use for inspiration and to morph in to a new story: Firefly, Starcraft 2 (from Jim Raynor’s view), real world political crises..

Anyway, I’m no writer, but please don’t offend audiences with any more 1 dimensional characters. 2009 ST was a good start. Keep at it and we’ll have something disturbingly epic to adore for a century or two.

143. Simon - August 24, 2010

#136 – As we see from TNG, Starfleet uses their ships for a LONG time. When you think about it, the Kelvin isn’t all that much older than a Miranda-class.

144. Simon - August 24, 2010

…or an Oberth, which was old by TOS-film standards (NCC-638)

145. TomBot3000 - August 24, 2010

Star Trek has rarely been highbrow material, mostly middlebrow with a sprinkling of higher aspirations occasionally. Star Trek ’09 had even lower aims. It skimped on design, forethought, character and logic. Whereas later series explained too much, got too technical, that movie went straight to space-fantasy. It was a pop re-mix of a good song with all the heart and thought ripped out for a danceable beat. I’d love to eat my words… I would love for the next movie to blow expectations out the airlock but I can’t help doubt it since they have been rewarded with praise and profits for Warz’n up the Trek universe. On the bright side, as was pointed out, it’s only every three years and 2012 is still Armageddon. It’s still for certain, right? ;-)

146. ensign joe - August 24, 2010

“Also, maybe my memory fails me, but was it ever explained in the movie or comic book how Nero got his hands on the red matter? Just wondering…”

Yeah Nero got it when Spock failed to initiate the self-destruct on the Squid.. maybe because they beamed him off he didn’t have time to.. oh..

Setting self-destruct sequence on this post in 3..2..1..

147. Vultan - August 24, 2010


Yeah, that’s a good point. Starfleet does keep its ships out there for a long time. Funny how Admiral Guest Star wanted to retire the Enterprise in TSFS because it was “twenty years old!”

148. Disinvited - August 24, 2010


I’ve been wondering, Nero’s ship was used to mine red matter. Did he really need the refined stuff to unleash the destruction he was planning? Yes, I understand he needed the refined stuff to use it as a black hole as Spock and the Vulcans intended but you have to wonder with marvelous stuff like that, it should be possible to release other destructive potentials from its less refined form – especially if you are in possession of advanced Borg technology?

149. Boborci - August 24, 2010


Nero got the red matter when he captured Spock coming back in time.

150. Vultan - August 24, 2010


Thanks, Bob. Totally forgot about that part of the movie.

As someone asked above, what about TDK didn’t you like? Not beating up on you or anything. Just wondering if it was the script or the acting… maybe Christian Bale’s silly growl… ;)

151. Boborci - August 24, 2010

149. Perhaps if we ever run into each other at a coffee shop, we can discuss! Otherwise, seems impolitic to record opinion to memory hole of the internets;)

152. Jeff O'Connor - August 24, 2010

I see 140 comments and 140,000 opinions here tonight.

153. Jeff O'Connor - August 24, 2010

Make that 150… etc.

154. Vultan - August 24, 2010


I think it’s all right to voice your opinion on the matter. Hardcore Batman fans may not be as understanding as Trek fans, but I’m pretty sure they won’t be chasing you with pitchforks and torches. Anyway, good luck with the sequel…

155. David P - August 24, 2010

I like the Lady Gaga idea, maybe a duet with Shat?

156. Dunsel Report - August 24, 2010

Dear Damon Lindelof, please bring in Mr. Adventure, portrayed by Aaron Paul or someone.

157. P Technobabble - August 24, 2010

125. StarFury

I totally accept that a lot of people dug The Dark Knight. Everyone has an inner vision of what a Batman film, a Superman film, a Bond film, a Star Trek film, etc. should look like, what they should be like, what they should contain, etc. As I stated in my post, I felt The Dark Knight was not quite the film many viewers and critics hyped it up to be, but that’s just me. I thought it had a lot of speeding around and explosions, but was lacking in character development — apart from Ledger’s Joker, who was the most realized character in the film. Everyone else was fairly cardboard and cliche, in my humble opinion, but, again, that’s just me.
I also acknowledge that since the film grossed a ton of $$$, more people would, apparently, agree with you than with me. Fair enough…

158. jas_montreal - August 24, 2010

The Excelsior MUST be in the sequel. One way or another. Even a brief mention about it.

159. Disinvited - August 24, 2010


Not to pick a nit but more to try and help keep your QM speak consistent: at that point in time wasn’t Spock moving forward in time in the alternate universe through time dilation?

Because in QM isn’t it otherwise impossible for two backward traveling in time chrononauts to emerge at different points in the past and end up in the same universe?

On a related note: I bet you are beginning to get an inkling of the Earth Two juggling act that Julie Schwartz wrought.

160. Harry Ballz - August 24, 2010

134 “and the tongue-in-cheek hummer”

This would prove rather difficult, wouldn’t it? :>)

161. Disinvited - August 24, 2010


I think Bob is being very wise. In Hollywood, it would be very imprudent to prematurely screw the pooch of any possibility that he might be offered a Batman gig.

But on the other hand, I’d like to know the name of a coffee shop where he thinks he could openly dis TDK and it WOULDN’T be on TMZ that evening. Maybe some place out in Utah (I j/k)?

162. Disinvited - August 24, 2010


I’ve been trying and I can’t manage it. Maybe this is some talent that Scotty’s friend can muster?

163. Vultan - August 24, 2010


It would only be screwing the pooch if he made an outlandish statement, such as “TDK was the worst movie ever!” If he gave a detailed, thoughtful critique of the film, then I don’t think anyone could hold it against him. Then again, I’m not a member of the Hollywood flock of sheep—free speech is an old habit of mine.

164. Disinvited - August 24, 2010


I share your sentiment but you have to forgive me – I grew up near the nation’s capital and capitol where our leaders “free” speeches were the best speeches that money could buy.

On the off chance that you are curious how the flock flings free:


165. ChristopherPike - August 24, 2010

Ah, if only I had a deep, psychologically mind expanding Star Trek movie pitch for you all.

Clearly you need Kirk, Spock and McCoy all over the page on a certain topic, then finding consensus by the final reel.

McCoy outraged and against something controversial. Spock facinated and not understanding his anti-stance. Kirk with issues of his own and forced to find the middle path.

That’s Star Trek in a nutshell. Galactic space battles, romantic flings, comedy moments are the window dressing, that make the discussion of topic, perhaps something a little too close to home for comfort, fun and entertaining.

166. Dunsel Report - August 24, 2010

#149 I thought Dark Knight’s attitude was off-putting, especially the first time I saw it. I say this even though many said the same thing about “Batman 1989,” which I love.

Batman ’89 was sort of this hilarious dark carnival. but instead of just giving us a good story, director Nolan tried so hard for his “Batman” to be important. For me, the relative lack of humor and the tone of self-importance didn’t fit well with the goofy Two Face stuff or a police procedure plot that seemed made-for-TV.

The violence, meanwhile, just seemed nasty and unpleasant in a way that didn’t help the story work for me. Seeing all that sadism on screen in 2008, in a pretty good but not amazing movie, I felt sad for the state of America.

I felt better when I saw Trek 2009.

167. Vultan - August 24, 2010


Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading that. I could definitely see how a writer would want to be in television rather than movies.

168. Vultan - August 24, 2010


“The violence, meanwhile, just seemed nasty and unpleasant…”

As opposed to fun and pleasant violence? ;)

169. John from Cincinnati - August 24, 2010

Just throwing these out there:

Kate Beckinsale as Edith Keeler
Javier Bardem as Khan
Jim Carrey as Trelane
George Clooney as Commodore Decker
Dakota Fanning as Miri
Kevin Spacey as Captain Koloth
Jim Parsons as Charlie X

170. Disinvited - August 24, 2010


Not just that but also a cogent argument as for why STAR TREK must return to the airwaves.

171. AJ - August 24, 2010


A Stan Lee cameo where he shouts “Excelsior!” as the E leaves drydock.

I asked Mr. Orci for a mention of Dreadnoughts over a year ago, and he was game.

We’ll see!

172. Vultan - August 24, 2010


Seriously though, if you want nasty and unpleasant violence, look no further than the Watchmen—the only movie I’ve ever walked out on.

173. miguelito1701 - August 24, 2010

@ 14 I thought I was the only one.

174. Vultan - August 24, 2010


I wholeheartedly agree that Trek needs to be back on TV. You’d think Paramount/CBS would want to capitalize on the latest movie’s success and immediately start work on a new series—like the success of “The Voyage Home” back in ’86 causing the suits to finally give the green light to a little series called Star Trek: The Next Generation, which launched the following year!

175. Data Logan - August 24, 2010

67. falcon
81. Lore
132. Do You Wanna Dance
Who all suggest a Starfleet protagonist that becomes an antagonist villain

If we are to redo a villain from TOS, I think a good villain would be Garth of Izar.
Noble, tragic figure of Shakespearean proportions. A villain that could even rival Khan if done right.
A Starfleet captain who actually came up through the ranks and has the experience to draw on.
Good foil for the new, young Captain Kirk to learn from.

In TOS episode Whom Gods Destroy (which is about 6 years in the future still for Star Trek ’09) it was established that at some time in the past Garth crashed on Antos, was brought back from the almost-death, learned about cellular metamorphosis, became insane, then returned to his ship, where his crew “mutinied” (which I read as took the ship away from him after he used it to kill someone, etc). Then he spent some un-known number of months/years being cared for my lesser counselors or psychiatrists before being declared incurably criminally insane and sent to Elba II.

It’s entirely possible that the criminally insane thing Garth did with his ship shortly after returning from Antos has happen or will happen soon (compared to our Abrams crew). The Enterprise could even been nearby for it. Bingo, timing is correct for Garth story.

Plus, he can be played by big-name actor without prostetics hiding his face.

176. Data Logan - August 24, 2010

77. I, Mugsy
Just because films come out years apart doesn’t mean they take place years apart.

ST:III starts just days after ST:II
ST:IV is only months after ST:III
ST:V is only weeks after ST:IV

All ST movies II-V take place within a year, but came out in theaters over a period of about 8 years

Obviously, over time it becomes less believable, especially with young characters like Chekov.

177. Data Logan - August 24, 2010

115. Basement Blogger
“The Federation has been weakened because the Vulcans are almost all gone.”

But the Federation has also been increadibly strengthened by the introduction of transwarp beaming (as both a weapon and supply chain)

178. Basement Blogger - August 24, 2010

@ 168 John From Cincinnati

I wouldn’t want to see a remake of “The City on the Edge of Forever” plus Edith Keeler lives in the 1930’s However, I think Kate Beckinsale is talented and a babe. So, it would be cool if she got cast in some part of the sequel. Speaking of English actresses, I just saw Kelly Brook, in “Pirnaha 3D”, she was the best thing in that movie. I just can’t firgure out why I liked her so much because she didn’t have a lot of dialogue. Let me see if I can find the answer in her “interview” in September’s Playboy.

Finally, John from Cincinnati, GO REDS!.

179. Shinzon's Lover - August 24, 2010


Please use punctuation! You’re posts are needlessly difficult to read. There was a reason you were run off from the TrekBBS.

180. Shinzon's Lover - August 24, 2010

^ I meant “your”.

Well…I just p’wned myself…

181. Desstruxion - August 24, 2010

I’ve seen a few comments on here referencing the “Countdown” comic series. I know that comics are not usually considered canon but it would make more sense if this one was. It would clear up any confusion about the continuation of the prime universe and it would also explain the immense sized and extremely well armed, mining ship Narada. Bob….you still there? What do you think? Countdown comic: canon or no?

182. Boborci - August 24, 2010

181. Can’t change the rules at this late stage. I believe canon has always meant only what is filmed, but I appreciate the sentiment!

183. Keachick - August 24, 2010

141 wrote: “I hope the new story or possibly whole new universe it a lot darker and subsequently real. The utopic ideas of the Federation and the ideals of Starfleet were part of a message and a vision that Roddenbury was trying to inspire the world towards. That’s great and I think that message has been transmitted successfully…

In moving forward, I’d like to see a universe with a lot more depth to it. More politics, more brains, more pain…

I’d also like the technology to be more rusted out and cruel. I want to see slowly ripping metal, gasses escaping, plasma leaking on to people and burning them in to screaming piles of regret…”

Wow, do you see what you have written? Frankly, I do not want any Trek writers to pander to these kind of sick, sadistic desires and fetishes. Just utterly awful and amoral (or is it immoral?).

What bothers me is the idea that “depth” necessarily means “darker” or having more cruelty or villainy of various kinds, warlords, explosions, battles etc. Actually, I would have to say that, for the most part, these things are the result of stupidity, simplistic attitudes and behaviours and grossness. Also I wonder why these things are considered to be any more real than beauty, fragility, psycho/physical complexity of most sentient life, love, goodwill and good humour, friendship or genuine feelings of bliss and contentment that some people are able to experience…

I think that the message and universe that Roddenberry envisioned and tried to get across had a great deal more genuine depth than the type of universe that poster 141 has in mind. It is always easier to destroy than to create. It is also easier to overlook and trample on the fragile, the subtle, the gentle. That’s what grossness, negativity and cruel stupidity is so good at doing, unfortunately – trampling and destroying.

BTW, for those who don’t think there was much in terms of reality with the scene of Kirk’s big hands – well, I have TWICE ended up having a foot that size. Once was the result of a bee sting and another time it was the result of me severely twisting my ankle and the resulting inflammation…My foot did not go down to its normal size as fast as Kirk’s hands did, on either occasion.

Please – Bob Orci, Alex and Damon. Keep this Star Trek universe good, positive and the Enterprise characters kind of heart and spirit, and good, well-intentioned people!

184. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - August 24, 2010

Hey Bob Orci. I think you guys did a fantastic job on trek 09 and I know as you being a true fan of trek will write for us fans as well as all the new ones. I know that you and the court will give us a trek film we all can be proud of. No pressure.

185. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - August 24, 2010

Ok Bob Orci. Thank you once again for coming on here and listning to us crazy trek fans. In all the post you have looked at have any of them given you any ideas on the next movie. If so I hope that after the movie comes out you can share them with us.

186. Boborci - August 24, 2010

183 &184

Thanks! Will not disappoint. Or will commit Harry Karry(I know that’s not how u spell it);)

187. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - August 24, 2010

Hey Anthony. I checked out the YouTube you posted. For that you deserve 10 minutes the agonized booth. Lol.

188. Richpit - August 24, 2010

I’m SO glad to see that I’m not the only one who thinks The Dark Knight was overrated. I thought it was mediocre at best and I wasn’t all that impressed with Ledger’s performance. I saw a WHOLE LOT of Nicholson’s Joker in it. I loved Nicholson’s Joker, but was shocked at all the buzz over Heath’s performance when it really seemed to me that he copied a lot of it.

IMO, Heath’s tragic death is the only reason TDK is so acclaimed.

189. Bill Peters - August 24, 2010

Hey Bob Orci,

Thanks for listing and talking to the fans you are the best and I agree wiht 183&184 you’ll give us a great flim!

By the way I like to see some Klingons in the film just my two Cents!

190. dmduncan - August 24, 2010

Saw two movies this past weekend, same theater I saw ST.09, and I was remembering opening night, and the great feelings I had sitting there prepared to see the TOS characters come back to life again, and it made me smile. Just remembering it.

ST.09 was a summer action movie. And it was a great one. Now that doesn’t fit some fans’ notions of what Star Trek IS. But Star Trek has never had trouble being many different things including, sometimes, being bad.

But that wasn’t the case with ST.09. It was a very good action movie that used the premise of MWI to reboot the franchise without destroying TOS canon. It gave a new start to beloved old characters without destroying the history of what we already saw.

I’ve never seen such a level of concern RATIONALLY balanced between canon and the future of the franchise before. And the core idea of the movie was original to me. It was darned clever, clever enough to go over my head the first time I saw it in a way that Inception, by comparison, did not.

When I read all the negative comments about ST.09, what I hear people saying is, “it wasn’t what I expected.” Okay. Fair enough. What all those different criticisms boil down to is: They failed to make ST.09 all things to all fans.

But come on. How does any team have a realistic chance of succeeding in doing that? It’s not a rational objective, particularly not for a reboot that had the ambitious objective that ST.09 had.

The obligation of this new team of creative personnel is not exclusively to preexisting fans. It is also to make new ones, because without those new fans, all Star Trek becomes OLD Star Trek.

And I’d rather have some new Star Trek than none at all. Why? Because despite the impression you’d get from the wailing of some fans, they are NOT confiscating all existing copies of TOS for destruction.

Bob couldn’t change history if he put on his most dastardly mustache and tried really really hard.

So relax. Sit back and enjoy la dolce vita de Star Trek.

191. DeShonn Steinblatt - August 24, 2010

I hope Lindelof was being less than serious with the “highfalutin hats” remark. Trekkies have been ridiculed and denigrated for so long that they persist in inflating the “meaning” of Star Trek. The truth is Trek hasn’t even attempted message or higher meaning since 1991. In fact, the central theme of each of the four TNG movies can be summed up with the same word: Crap. I wouldn’t want Star Trek 2 to be crap. I would want the same level of fun and humor as the first one. Slowing it down or dampening the frenetic, glossy style of the previous blockbuster just to make it seem “deeper” would make me sad.

179. Don’t be a C to the one female under 50 on this site.

192. RAMA - August 24, 2010

I like this sentiment a lot…deeper to me is exactly what a non-origin sequel should be, and ST’s history has been ripe with meaningful stories wrapped in adventure. Just one thing…have to have JJ use Ryan Church’s ORIGINAL design for the engine room, that’s all I ask…

193. Daoud - August 24, 2010

@186 Hahah, “Harry Karry” is what some will call it if Harry Mudd shows up in a *significant* role in the sequel. (A clever cameo would be clever, of course.)

I just hope when the Kelvin went kerflooey, that young Ensigns Matt Decker, Garth, and Ron Tracey weren’t sucked out into space! That commenter about having the villain be a human is on to something. If you give us something other than Khan, or rather than “Klingons, Romulans, and Gorn, oh my!” I think you’ll be rolling in the gold-pressed latinum.

@176 Star Trek V takes place years after Star Trek IV. Notice how the Enterprise A’s bridge has been remodelled, and the Enterprise is back working from Earth after another 5YM went by. But you’re basically right about how ‘densely packed’ TWOK, TSFS and TVH are!

194. Basement Blogger - August 24, 2010

If the world ends in 2012 due to alien invasion, I want to see the sequel before I’m assimilated or turned into soylent green. Maybe they should finish it for late 2011. : ) Just a little concerned because there’s a new book on UFOs from journalist Leslie Kean where she interviews government officials on the subject. (Huffington Post link below.) The Belgium Incident (1990) is always fascinating for the photos and evidence.

Let’s hope the Vulcans are around when the aliens invade. Come on Vulcans, save us, we’re not such bad people. Okay, just ignore what happens in South Carolina. : )


The UFO book link:

195. Harry Ballz - August 24, 2010

Harry Karry?

Hmmmmm, maybe I should use that name instead…….

196. Data Logan - August 24, 2010

193. Daoud

in ST:V, Captain Scott’s log states that it is still the shakdown cruise, which started at the end of ST:IV.
Kirk states that he gave Scott 3 weeks to fix the ship even though he said he could do it in 2
Sure, the bridge module has been changed out, but that could be explained away.

I think the next “5 year mission” happens after this movie, leading up to ST:VI

197. Keachick - August 24, 2010

I think that having some Klingons in the next movie would be good – for continuity. Just don’t have them looking the way they did in the deleted scenes of ST09. I’m glad those scenes were not included in the movie.

I liked the Klingons on ST:TMP and TNG. I thought that was how Gene R and others meant them to look like originally, except that they could not do or afford the make up, until improvements were made overall in Makeup, Special Effects, etc. within the movie/TV industry.

Unfortunately, my sound has died (more likely to be hardware connections ): ), so I can’t hear the Damon Lindelof interview. There was some mention of the Enterprise having a bumper sticker about saving a rainforest? Now that could look COOL!

198. dmduncan - August 24, 2010

@194: Leslie Kean does some good work. Here’s something to chew on:

The Fire Officer’s Guide To Disaster Control, and it’s famous CHAPTER 13. Available on Amazon.

199. S. John Ross - August 24, 2010

#67: “Perhaps that is the sort of template that Orci, Lindelof, Kurtzman, et.al, can use for the antagonist (let’s not call him/her/it a “villain”) in the next film.”

Let’s call him or her or it what it is. If it’s a villain (and we’ve already been told pretty clearly that it’ll be a villain) then it’d just be depressing using a term it doesn’t rate. Time will tell, however.

#79: Yes. Many times yes.

#91: I don’t think there are many people who dislike Trek09. Certainly, I liked it (saw it twice) and I think the majorty of those here like it, and the majority of those who saw in the cinema liked it. A lot of us have criticisms of it, which is a different thing. A few disliked it, but they seem to be a minority even here where you can expect vocal responses from the hardcores.

#101: Yeah, I’m hoping they got the Star Wars envy out of their system this time.

200. Randy J Smith - August 24, 2010

An excellent chance to train the crew of Starfleet’s new flagship in the sequel could begin with a Captain’s Log V.O.-“Spock Prime has shared his knowledge of threats to Federation planets and people. These threats are ones that are unaffected by any alternative timeline. We are taking advantage of this knowledge to give Enterprise a proper shakedown …”
Keeping in mind the constraints of screen time, maybe 3-4 of these would be dealt with. Keep in mind that Spock Prime knows how his Enterprise defeated these threats. Most, if not all, began before the time line was altered with the attack on the Kelvin. Great way to train a new crew.
Consider – the Doomsday Machine, the vampire cloud creature, NOMAD, V’GER, Apollo, Talos IV, the 500 year war on Eminiar and Vendikar, the neural parasites in “Operation:Annihilate!”, the Kelvins from Andromeda, the giant amoeba, the Guardian of Forever, maybe even the Horta and, of course, Khan.
Perhaps dealing with Khan is not as easy as they think, something happens and he’s awakened. We know what he would do.
However, let’s hope the Khan is not the automatic answer to the question, what do we do in the next movie?
I hoping for something less predictable.
copyright 2010 Randy J Smith

201. sean - August 24, 2010

The glimpse of Klingons in ST09 cut scenes was a real treat for me, as it seemed they’d gone back to the menacing, intelligent foes from TOS. And come on, Victor Garber as a Klingon! I loved it. If they stick with that, I’d enjoy seeing Klingons in ST09.

PS – Loathe as I am to even reference the existence of STV, it clearly takes place a very short time period after STIV. Scotty’s line makes it evident, and half the jokes are about how poorly designed the ‘new’ Enterprise is.

202. Katie G. - August 24, 2010

I’m thinking that 2012 is a long way away. Wouldn’t it have been a good idea to do what Peter Jackson did with LOTR and do three movies back to back then release them only 1 year apart? Guess they were waiting to see how it did or they ran out of money. Whatever… It’s going to be a LONG WAIT.



203. Red Dead Ryan - August 24, 2010

Cannot wait to see what Bob comes up with next. I wish I was able to help him, Alex and Damon out, even for free. But paying about $130.00 for ten trips to the cimema to see the sequel ten times will be my assistance. Especially if the movie is great, which I cannot imagine it not being.

I have seen “Star Trek” five times in the theatre and eight times on Blu Ray.

Hope my expectations aren’t too high for you, Bob!

204. AJ - August 24, 2010

182: Boborci

The ST09 Blu-Ray supplemental materials discuss in detail the Borg enhancements on board the Narada (“virtual” Narada tour). Does that not make the ‘Countdown’ stuff canon? (The ship actually ‘grows’ etc.)

205. Red Dead Ryan - August 24, 2010

I initially agreed with the decision to leave out the deleted scenes, but for some reason, I’d now like to see a ‘director’s cut’ featuring most of the deleted scenes except for the scene where it reveals how Kirk beat the Kobayashi Maru test (some questions are best left unanswered).

206. Disinvited - August 25, 2010


Since you were filming out west I can only imagine that you are referring to one of my favorite western actors, Harry Carey, who inherited the mantle of famous western actor from his father of the same name.

And all I can only think to say is: PLEASE Mr. Orci, I don’t care how much trouble he’s been giving you on COWBOYS VS ALIENS – DON’T DO IT! Even if he dasts use your laptop’s DVD tray to hold his coffee, please find a way in your heart to forgive him. He’s the only authentic voice on my cable movie channel’s Cowboy block. Please don’t have him committed!*

*This plea subject to revision if I the placater discovers Mr.Carey’s been shredding Mr. Orci’s Shatner dialogue(s).

207. Vultan - August 25, 2010


Though I’m sure you already knew it, I think he was referring to Japanese ritualistic suicide—harakiri—a rather nasty process where the person disembowels himself. It was all the rage in WW2.

208. Data476 - August 25, 2010

It is worrying that the new Batman movie comes out just three weeks later – considering the huge success of The Dark Knight and of which it completely blew any rivals out of its way..

Whats the betting that the Star Trek movie will be moved to a November/December 2012 closer to release..

209. James Tyler - August 25, 2010

It’s a great benchmark to aim for. I think fan paranoia will always kick in and that loud minority who hate everything will always bash something before it’s even written… but the attempt to make the franchise grow instead of keeping the numbers happy is something I look forward to seeing.

210. captain_neill - August 25, 2010

Well as long as you don’t forget the idealogy of Star Trek in favour of a straight out action tentpole movie I can have faith that the next movie be good.

211. captain_neill - August 25, 2010

My hopes are better now, after meeting fans who have embraced the new movie at the Vegas con, they embrace that it does not invalidate what came before made me feel that I could still love the new stuff just as much as the stuff I loved before.

Yes JJ Abrams will still do things that as a fan I don’t agree with but I won’t give up on my fav show just because things are different.

212. P Technobabble - August 25, 2010

I have been wondering if there will be some on-going repercussions due to the “creation” of this new (altered) reality (apart from just story ideas). I believe Spock Prime made Kirk realize an altered reality had been created, but, apart from that, the altered characters would never have known they were in an altered reality — it would have just been natural to them. If we suddenly realized there had been some sort of “reality shift” in our universe, how would that effect us? If we knew things had been altered, would we always be trying to correct it, or would we simply go along resigned to it? How will the nuCharacters conduct their lives knowing they are living in a different reality than their “counterparts?”
In the TNG episode “Yesterday’s Enterprise,” only Guinan was able to recognize that something was wrong. Every other character believed the reality they were living in was completely natural. A leap of faith causes Picard to suggest sending the Enterprise-C back through the temporal rift in order to re-set things. However, it appears there will be no re-set to this new Trek Universe. And the nuCharacters (and Spock Prime) are the only ones who know reality has been altered. How will this affect their daily lives — or will it?

213. Christopher Pike - August 25, 2010

212 – Hate to say it, but I think the altered reality was purely for old fans benefit. Going by public perception, and by that I mean read any critic review or ask somebody who only had a vague knowledge of Star Trek, the film was a by-the-numbers prequel.

I’d like to be proven wrong, that Nero’s actions have lasting repercussions but my guess is that the next film won’t refer to Vulcan’s fate, or make much of a fuss over the changes.

I don’t really get the Star Trek 2009 – Batman Begins comparison myself. That film was largely faithful to that character’s backstory in the source material. While Star Trek had to make sweeping changes to James T. Kirk and later in the film, Spock. Add to that, a largely stylistic approach over what came before and I think Star Trek 2009 has more in common with Tim Burton’s 1989 Batman. That’s not a criticism incidentally, because I was in my teens when that came out and preferred it to Adam West’s TV show.

What I’m basically saying is that Star Trek hasn’t really had an honest-to-goodness origin story of the calibre of Batman Begins yet.

214. Disinvited - August 25, 2010


I think you are referring to seppuku which really wasn’t all that popular during WWII but was considered by the Japanese military of that era as a preferred alternative to the equally unpopular option of surrender.

215. Disinvited - August 25, 2010

#186. & 207.

It may be the wrong franchise but I think, all joking aside, the only appropriate response is “Never give up! Never surrender!”

216. ensign joe - August 25, 2010

“Yes JJ Abrams will still do things that as a fan I don’t agree with but I won’t give up on my fav show just because things are different.”

Spoken like a true fan.. kudos to you captain_neill

217. Disinvited - August 25, 2010

#186. & 207.

Oh, and “Never seppuku!”

218. DeShonn Steinblatt - August 25, 2010


About the same as all the mirror universe episodes affected the characters.

219. Trek Nerd Central - August 25, 2010

If they want deep and dark, they should plunge Kirk & Co. into the sort of cosmic moral dilemma that gave “City on the Edge of Forever” its resonance.

The reason it remains the best single hour of “Star Trek” is because so much is on the line: all of history + a broken heart. That one choice Kirk makes at the end, in that one shattering moment, defines the heroism of his character and the series at its greatest.

I’m not saying they should re-do “City.” I’m saying they should look at what works in it, and why. (Similar choices and forces drive “The Dark Knight,” come to think of it.)

220. P Technobabble - August 25, 2010

213. Christopher

I, for one, don’t really mind if the Trek universe has been altered completely and permanently, and I think it was for Star Trek’s benefit as much as any fan who was growing bored with it. I don’t know how much specific attention will be given to the repercussions of the altered universe — again, the only ones aware it are Kirk and crew (and who knows how much of the crew was made aware), and Spock Prime. So, I was wondering, specifically, how such knowledge would play into their personal lives. On the other hand, I don’t think there’s much they can do about it, so moving on is as “logical” a next step as any.

218. DeShonnon

When the Prime Trek characters entered the Mirror Universe, they were able to return to the Prime Universe, unchanged — whereas the characters of NuTrek have nowhere to return to… they are already home.

221. I, Mugsy - August 25, 2010

176: I’m fully aware of that, and – as I explained – the aging of the actors vs. the time span between films becomes harder to get away with as time goes on.

I predict that – as best – we will have 3 (possibly 4) films MAX with this new crew. In the original 60s series that doesn’t get us past The Enemy Within (if going by production order and excluding The Cage). Just not enough time to cram in essential character moments that are needed for a crew like Kirk, Spock, McCoy et al. They’ll remain a pale imitation of the original 60s characters unless more time/episodes are devoted to the new stories…

I think they need to seriously think about doing some back-to-back movies, or after one more big screen voyage some very well done TV movies – 6 a year or something.

I’m still also stunned that nobody at Paramount has seen the opportunities of doing a TV movie featuring Shatner and Nimoy which could 1) address the return of Kirk and clear up the mess that was Generations and 2) give these two a golden send-off on the TV screen (which is fitting as that’s where they began together, afterall).

222. Desstruxion - August 25, 2010

My wishlist to Santa Bob:
-Bob, can we please see a Daedalus class ship and an NX refit on screen in the next flick? Maybe docked at a starbase or something. That would be cool continuity and a link to Enterprise.
-Also, can we see Klingons? The smooth foreheaded kind and the ridged forehead type together.
-Also can you start filming next week and release it next Christmas instead of waiting til 2012? I’m not sure I can hold out that long.

223. S. John Ross - August 25, 2010

#221: “176: I’m fully aware of that, and – as I explained – the aging of the actors vs. the time span between films becomes harder to get away with as time goes on.”

Given that these characters are likely to be recast every 1-5 movies in which they appear from now on,* it isn’t likely to be a big issue.

= = = = =
* I figure we have this crop for at least 2 or 3 films, but I’m including their replacements in the possible one-film figure.

224. Red Dead Ryan - August 25, 2010

It seems Captain Neill has finally let go of his fears and grievances regarding the “New Universe” Star Trek. He has finally seen the light. Good to see.

Now, if we can get Jeyl to do the same, we will really accomplish something great and special!

225. James - August 25, 2010

Tom Hanks as commodore decker. That is all.

226. Basement Blogger - August 25, 2010

I glad that another Trekker has raised this point. See Katie G. @ 202. We’re less than two years away from Trek ’12 and that’s a long time to wait. Whereas, some may argue that too much Trek killed the franchise in the early part of the decade, I’m concerned that waiting three years might be too long. By the way, I’d argue that UPN killed Trek because where I live (Cincinnati) it was on a low power TV station, not immediately picked up by cable. I’m guessing it might have been that way in other parts of the country.

Let’s face it Trek ’09 was designed to appeal to a “modern” movie audience. Interpretation: young people. Those people are used to getting their teenage vampire movies every year. And I hope those young people find the orginal series so they enjoy the “boring” philosophical discussions that an old fossil like me loved. : ) Here’s a couple of ideas to get keep up the interest.

1. Turn D.C. Fonatana’s script for the abandoned videogame “The Secret of Vulcan Fury” into straight to DVD CGI animated feature. I’ve made this idea before but I have new ideas. (I’ll include links to cool stuff below.)

Interplay which was developing the game, recorded the original voices of the crew. Yes, you heard that right. Shatner, Nimoy, Doohan, Takei, Nichols and some guy named DeForest Kelley. Interplay bragged that the 3D graphics had Kellye’s forehead bump. I’ve seen artwork and there was a lot of work done on this project. Below I’ll link the artwork and a trailer of some of the work that’ll give you goosebumps.

Obviously there will be things to do. Here’s how to bring back the Shat. You will deage him. This is the Roddenberry Timeline. Have him record needed voice overs. You’ll probably need a script doctor to patch this thing together. I vote for Michael Arndt (“Little Miss Sunshine” “Toy Story 3″) for the task.

Yes, there will be problems. I have no idea how Paramount gets all the rights. Damn it my fellow Trekkers, I’m a blogger not an entertainment lawyer. But let’s face it, it’s not like all the work done on ‘Vulcan Fury” is doing anything now. Vulcan Fury’s plot does sound like TNG’s “The Gambit.” about an ancient Vulcan weapon. But that’s what you have the script doctor for.

Release this late 2011 or early 2012 before the release of the new Trek and before the aliens invade the planet and turn us into soylent green.

2. Lower the price on TOS DVDs. Amazon is pricing the remastered TOS (The Original Series for you newbies) at $68.49. Look, we need to get the kids to enjoy all the talky-gooey science fiction I grew up with. : ) Cut the price in half so young college kids can buy and discover the great shows, I gush about. Kids, buy seasons one and two first. Season three had problems. But anyway the kids can discover, “The City on the Edge of Forever” “Arena” “Journey to Babel” which by the way describes Spock’s childhood and was seen in Trek ’09, “The Doomsday Machine” etc.

Here are the cool links to “The Secret of Vulcan Fury.” Remember this is late nineties technology but before Khan could get to it and destroy it. : )

Artwork: http://gaming.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/secretofvulcanfury/misc/adscan75.jpg

Trek Wiki article on “Vulcan Fury.” http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Secret_of_Vulcan_Fury

Kick Ass Trailer for the Game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDKfX5Hwuoc

227. dmduncan - August 25, 2010

I think the deleted scenes are best left out. But Avatar is is being re-released with new scenes, and even though we all know it’s because the film hasn’t made enough money already, I do like it that James Cameron is responsive to fan wishes to see more of Pandora.

I’m kind of disappointed in JJ’s “this is the movie I wanted to make” auteur schtick.

The deleted Shatner scene could’ve been shot by now, and the film could’ve been re-released with that new ending, and it would’ve made it a tighter, more meaningful movie.

JJ’s decision to NOT shoot the Shatner scene is in my opinion the biggest mistake he made. I’m still mystified as to how anybody could’ve read that scene, felt the emotion in it, and called it a gimmick.

228. Keachick - August 25, 2010

To 186 (Bob Orci): I don’t think you could or would need to commit harikiri unless…

I think that harikiri is a traditional Japanese ritual (pretty horrid) which was performed by someone who had SHAMED themselves, family and/or community, by doing something very wrong (immoral) in the eyes of themselves or others. (Puccini’s Madame Butterfly).

What I want and need to see is Jonathan Archer’s beagle, Porthos, safe and well in the next movie. What was Scotty doing with Porthos in the first place? Bring back Porthos and have the normally well behaved, lovable little creature snarl, growl and yap at the very sound of Scotty’s name being said… and Kirk holding him saying, “There, there…”
(gosh, reminds me of the scene in TOS “Trouble with Tribbles”)

There you go – another little idea you may wish to use. Feel free, Bob!

229. Data Logan - August 25, 2010

re 228 Keachick

Admiral Archer’s prize beagle couldn’t possibly have been Porthos. Unless he encountered some alien race that significantly increased his lifespan.

In fact, I’d question whether Admiral Archer is even the same Jonathan Archer we know from Enterprise. It has been a hundred years.

230. Disinvited - August 25, 2010

#221. & 226.

The problem is in the 2005-2006 split Paramount has no TV rights to Trek other than the ability to negotiate air play of its Trek motion pictures.

It’s all in CBS’ Les Moonves’ hands. Unfortunately he’s on record as pretty much saying he hates STAR TREK and will never air a Trek series on his CBS.

Since CBS has become the defacto owner of the CW network, there is a chance that someone could put a TV Trek production idea together and schmooze it past Les to air there. But I don’t envy anyone who tries to make that happen.

231. Trek Nerd Central - August 25, 2010

#225. Excellent idea. Truly.

232. Christopher Mulrooney - August 25, 2010

“I really hope he is kidding about the Bumper Sticker:” or maybe they could put one (If you can read this your to close) Or Perhaps, “Only Stop for Orion Girls or perhaps Mud’s Women” Any other Bumper Sticker Ideas post them :)

229. : By the way I know from inside information from those writers from Enterprise, remember the mirror universe episode when Mirror Archer and Mirror Yosi read their counterparts Bio on t he USS-Defiant (TOS era) they actualy had written life stories of Archer and Yoshi. I have read the bios from the writer who wrote them wish I still had that email from him. He wrote that Archer lived to the Christining of the USS-Enterprise before passing away. and Yoshi however died on the planet where Kirk and a few other crewmembers had been when they were younger you knthe guy that Killed and starved people to death she was an old woman on that same planet and died :(

233. Harry Ballz - August 25, 2010

Bumper sticker?


234. Keachick - August 25, 2010

Apologies to poster 141. I was quoting poster 142 in my post 183.

229 – Yes, well, the writers, one of whom is the Bob Orci who contributes here sometimes (wonderful), wrote about the beagle. The young Kirk said that he knew that dog and wondered what happened to him. Scotty said he suffered an unfortunate transporter accident and that he was still looking for him. As Bob above said that what goes on film (I presume not deleted scenes) is Star Trek CANON. Rules are rules…right, Bob :)

A lot of people did not like the Enterprise series much – for me, it was OK, but honestly, who could not like that gorgeous beagle ( it’s those eyes) named Porthos? And whose to say that Porthos did not have descendants? Perhaps this dog that Scotty lost was one of those descendants who was also named Porthos. More than likely.

235. ensign joe - August 26, 2010

#228 Keachick
“I think that harikiri is a traditional Japanese ritual (pretty horrid) which was performed by someone who had SHAMED themselves”

I think you should read the wiki on Seppuku:


236. Basement Blogger - August 26, 2010

Hey Disinvited @ 230, you said that CBS’ Les Moonves hates Star Trek. Here’s how we get Moonves to love Star Trek and thus make my idea of turning D.C. Fontana’s “Vulcan Fury” into a CGI animated DVD, a reality. .

1. Cast his wife Jule Chen aka “Chenbot” in the new movie, Trek ’12. Make her Sulu’s mom. Since she’s already go the nickname Chenbot, how about an android, a love droid for Capt. Pike? : )

2. Hire Leonardo DiCaprio, Tom Hardy (Shinzon in ST: Insurrection), and Bad Robot to smuggle on Moonves’ plane. There they would drug him to sleep. The team would enter his subconscious. They plant the idea deep in his subconsious. The idea? ” Love Star Trek. Make Vulcan Fury a DVD or TV mvoie. Give Basement Blogger a multi-million dollar job.” Okay the last one was selfish. Sorry. Moonves wakes up. He says to himself ‘I love Star Trek. Must make Secret of Vulcan Fury into a DVD, maybe a TV movie.”

Here’s another kick ass trailer for the D.C. Fontana’s game “Star Trek: Secret of Vulcan Fury.”



I agree with the interpretation. As a die hard trek fan I am not all up in arms because they are comparing Star Trek 12 to the Dark Knight. It does not mean its going to BE a Dark Knight, its simply a comparison. As Star Trek 11 was a rebirth as Batman Begins was, they are nothing alike but both did wonders for their own respected franchise. So as Dark Knight was to Batman Beings so is Star Trek 12 going to be to Star Trek 11. Trek 12 will simply go one step further (in Star Trek style, not Batman Style) to give us more of what we want. Star Trek 11 blew me away, Star Trek 12 I agree with Damon will have to go beyond that. I guarantee that Star Trek 11 didn’t even use half of Alex and Bob’s talent.

Now with Damon in the mix, imagine what one step further means from that trio!…….on my Apple Dashboard I already have a Star Trek 12 countdown! 672 days left!!!!!!!!

238. Keachick - August 26, 2010

235 – I see what you mean. Harikiri is another name for Seppuku. Still pretty yuk. Luckily it is not a tradition here. However, it does take place in Puccini’s Madame Butterfly and the reasons for it are similar to that given in Wikipedia.

Anyway, I hope there will be nothing like harikiri in the next movie…

239. Josh S - August 27, 2010

Use the alternate universe to do something new. The next movie should utilize some of the main alien species in an original way. The screenwriters shouldn’t be afraid to approach Star Trek from a different angle that somehow “blows up” the formula. The sequel could also start a larger story arc that will take 2 films to conclude. Maybe you could incorporate elements from the political thriller/ conspiracy genres as a guide post. Some hidden threat (attempted coup or subversion) that place the Federation at risk from the inside with help from the Klingons or one of the other species. Maybe something that resembles Spock’s World, but that doesn’t deal with the Vulcans with more dramatic elements. The screenwriters could also create a story in which the Federation experiences a technological/economic/political crisis with some horror elements. You could start the film with some dramatic or disorientating scene with Kirk and crew trapped in Starfleet HQ or somewhere in the Federation Council under siege. They need to forge some despair way back to the Enterprise and escape to another Federation world, such as Andoria, to get help. Or they need to escape San Francisco on foot to escape or travel to another part of United Earth to save Star Fleet and the Federation.

240. dan - August 29, 2010

wow what a lot of negative people here. Star trek 2009 did something no other sci fi has been able to do and that includes star wars and batman. the door is WIDE OPEN for anything idea wise to go. to use khan or the klingons or such so soon is just dumb. I loved the orginal khan and to try and replace Ricardo montaban would just cheapen the image and just make for a bad deal. whole new stories and planets and such can be done. IT’S A WHOLE NEW TIME LINE. lets make the best of this. I thought star trek 2009 was great. an awesome job was done by the cast of not only protraying the orginal cast but putting their own spin on them. I just hope that the creators don’t screw this up like they did with enterprise. that was a great show with wide open story lines but just not realized or put to use. I’m a long time trekkie and I am glad to see that the show can continue under the right guidence.

241. Keachick - August 29, 2010

I have made a mistake. I realised after watching the Star Trek movie on DVD again that, in fact, the Porthos name was never said by any of the characters. As soon as I heard Archer’s beagle mentioned, I immediately thought Porthos and it seems so did many others who have posted on various Star Trek message boards. There have been “heated” discussions about how it could or couldn’t be Porthos, the timing being wrong, bad research done on the writer’s part, etc. I don’t know what Bob Orci (along with Alex Kurtzman) must be thinking right now, but I am thinking that some of us have been total dorks (please, I don’t know who you are but I’m sure you do, so don’t deny it). …:)

Anyway, apologies to Bob and co. for putting words into the movie which were never there.

However, I still want to see that prized beagle (who may be a bitch for all we know) alive and well on the Enterprise. I read somewhere that it was intended to bring the dog back in the final film. Sorry, way too long a wait. Do I need to call the Humane Society or something…:)

I have seen the Dark Knight on DVD. It was a good movie but I just could not get into it the way I enjoyed the Sherlock Holmes movie with Robert Downey Jr and Jude Law. There were some raw, violent moments in it but I still preferred it over The Dark Knight. Perhaps the whole cape and spandex thing has worn thin for me…

242. Peter K. - September 1, 2010

I agree with #158, would love to see the Excelsior in one way or another.

I do really hope they can make it happen to release the new movie in june 2012. I cant wait to see Chris Pine and especially Zachary Quinto again. I hope the new movie can live up to the hype – but I’m sure it will.

243. Vulcan Soul - September 5, 2010

So I suppose this time around it won’t be genocide done in the most shallow comic book way?

244. Andrew from Australia - September 6, 2010

#239, you are onto something there. I’ve only just discovered this discussion board, and was pondering as I read all the above posts…

Basement Blogger (post #83) and John from Cincinatti are correct. Star Trek is about society’s moral compass. It twists real-world events and dilemmas/situations, throws them 300years into the future for our hero’s to deal with. ST:6 is a perfect example. Chenobyl, I mean Praxis, the biggest energy production centre for the Klingon Empire explodes, leaving the empire with no choice but to draw up peace accords with their cold-war opponent, the USA… I mean, Federation ;-)

For displaced Vulcans, who have been victims of genocide, to have their own colony formed on someone else’s planet, who don’t take kindly to someone else being given their land… Well, let’s see how Kirk and co solve the Isreal/Palestine problem!

It’s perfect. No Klingons, no Khan (which would be cheap attempts at best), a current socio/political/moral dilemma re-worked to fit the ST universe, ample opportunity for character development, humour, adventure… It’s got it all!

245. Keachick - September 7, 2010

244 What does Spock prime finding another planet for the surviving Vulcans to colonise have in common with the Isreali/Palestine problem?

My understanding of the situation with Israel and Palestine is that both people and cultures have a legitimate historical claim on the land there. Both the Palestinians and the Jews (Israelis) lived in what is Israel, Palestine etc since before Christian times.

Presumably the Vulcan race has no prior claim of any kind on the planet that Spock prime chooses for colonisation. It is possible though that the powers-that-be on the planet are happy to provide the Vulcans with enough land but it turns out that it is at the expense of a much smaller population, as in these people get pushed off their land to make way for the Vulcan settlers. Hopefully, Spock prime has done his homework…

I see where you are coming from though. It could make an interesting story dilemma. I have ideas on one peaceful way such a difficulty might be solved …

246. Dante - September 8, 2010

Shatner as Kirk, Please

247. Kelly - September 10, 2010

Deeper good, and dark to an extent but dont make it too dark or it loses what makes it star trek.

248. Ron - September 10, 2010

Considering all the possible planets in the Original Series that can be revisited, I hope the writers go for that rather than the Khan or the Klingons. For one I don’t know if I could watch a portrayal of Khan by someone who isn’t Ricardo Montalbon.

Some examples would be the Iotians from “A Piece of the Action” where the changes caused in the timeline mean that the Iotians get space travel, and try to muscle in on some of the other groups in the area. Or any of the other Earth like planets.

How the massive death of Vulcan’s affects the events from Amok Time.

How things work out when Kirk instead of Pike land on Talos.

I hope they don’t decide to introduce some of the newer aliens such as the Ferengi, Kardasians, Dominian. Although since the Ferengi were already introduced in Enterprise, that one won’t be as bad. Although there is only one that would make me likely not want to watch it, and that is the Borg.

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