Shatner’s ‘$#!*’ Sitcom & Orci Kurtzman ‘Hawaii Five-0′ Score Big Ratings – Abrams ‘Undercovers’ Underperforms | TrekMovie.com
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Shatner’s ‘$#!*’ Sitcom & Orci Kurtzman ‘Hawaii Five-0′ Score Big Ratings – Abrams ‘Undercovers’ Underperforms September 24, 2010

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Abrams,Celebrity,Orci/Kurtzman,Shatner , trackback

This week brings the premieres of many of fall’s new TV series, including two from the new team behind Star Trek and one from Star Trek’s original Kirk. Monday saw Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman’s Hawaii Five-0 win its time slot, and Wednesday JJ Abrams new show Undercovers premiered with somewhat disappointing ratings, while last night William Shatner’s $#!* My Dad Says scored big.  
 

Kutzman and Orci’s Hawaii Five-0 #1 new Monday show

On Monday CBS premiered Hawaii Five-0, the reboot of the classic cop show from the 70s. The show was co-created by Star Trek writer/producers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman and is produced by their K/O Paper Products production company. The pilot was also written by Orci and Kurtzman, telling a new "origin story" on how Steve McGarret (Alex O’Loughlin), Danno (Scott Caan), Chin Ho (Daniel Dae Kim) and the "Five 0" task force came together.  The premiere was the top rated new show on Monday and won the 10PM timeslot. The pilot was watched by 13.8 Million viewers, with a 3.9 rating in the key 18-49 Demo. The show easily beat the season premiere of Castle on ABC (2.8 demo rating) and Chase on NBC (2.5 demo rating).


Hawaii Five-0 main title sequence w/ classic music

Although not a genre show, Hawaii Five-0 is full of action and does have a couple genre stars as regulars: Daniel Dae Kim (from Lost and Star Trek Voyager and Enterprise), as well as Grace Park (Battlestar Galactica). And the bad guy in the pilot was played by James Marsters (Buffy), who could be returning to the show. Reviews for the series have also been very favorable, so Hawaii Five-0 is off to a good start.


Preview of next week’s episode "Ohana"

You can get more info about the show, including watching  the pilot and more video clips and behind the scenes videos at CBS.com.

Abrams’ Undercovers underperforms

NBC heavily promoted JJ Abrams return to the spy genre with the TV series Undercovers, noting it comes from the man behind Lost and Star Trek. The pilot for Undercovers was also directed by JJ Abrams (complete with lens flares), but apparently that wasn’t enough as the show premiered in third place in overall viewers (8.6M) and fourth place in terms of the key demo (2.0 rating). CBS’ Survivor Nicaragua won the 8PM Wednesday timeslot with  12.5M viewers and a 4.0 demo rating, but Fox and ABC shows also beat Undercovers.


Preview of next week’s episode

More videos, including the pilot, are available at NBC.com.

Shatner’s sitcom scores big

William Shatner’s new sitcom $#!* My Dad Says had generally unfavorable reviews. While Shatner was generally praised, the show itself was mostly panned, but that did not stop the show from scoring big ratings last night. The CBS sitcom benefited from the lead in of The Big Bang Theory and both shows won the hour. $#!* My Dad Says held 80% of the audience for Big Bang and was watched by 12.5M viewers and had a 3.9 rating in the key 18-49 demographic, beating head to head competition with the popular NBC sitcom 30 Rock, as well as the second half hours on Fox (Bones), CW (Vampire Diaries) and ABC (My Generation).


Preview for next week’s episode

More videos and the first episode for  $#!* My Dad Says available at CBS.com.

Orci, Kurtzman and Abrams pilots for next season

As we have been reporting, JJ Abrams already has three pilot projects in the works for next season with Alcatraz at FOX, Persons of Interest at CBS, and Odd Jobs (the comedy/drama with Michael Emerson and terry O’Quinn) landing at NBC. 

And earlier this week FOX gave a pilot order for a new series from Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman called Exit Strategy, described as a high octane procedural set in the world of CIA agents who are sent in to "fix" operations gone bad.

And with all of that, Fringe the sci-fi show from Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman, kicked off its 3rd season last night. That show started the season with a 30% drop from the season 2 premiere with 5.8M viewers and a 2.1 demo rating.  

 

Data for article source from TVByTheNumbers.

Comments

1. What is it with you? - September 24, 2010

He shat all over them!!! Go Bill!

2. Daoud - September 24, 2010

Congrats to Hawai’i Bob-O and Book’em Alex on a job well done! Best relaunch of an old series since TNG (and a better relaunch than TNG’s first season was, honestly! It took All Good Things to fix Encounter at Farpoint.)

3. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - September 24, 2010

What can we say. The Shat is Back with a Vengence!!!. Hawaii 5-0 looks to be a great show and they have some great actors. looks to be a solid Hit. Looks like the Court is off to a pretty good start. Hang in there J.J But please lose the Flares. It was ok with Trek. But not for a T.V Series.

4. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - September 24, 2010

Oh. The Shat was as funny as $#!*

5. J.S. Butcher - September 24, 2010

Just when the Big Bang Theory was starting to soften my loathing for the traditional sitcom along comes $#!* My Dad Says to prove the rule. I guess BBT is the exception to the rule.

Bill was great, sadly it ends there.

6. dmduncan - September 24, 2010

Watched Undercovers and was underimpressed. While Gugu Mbatha-Raw was too beautiful to look away from, it was predictable formula TV with too much cutesy dialogue. Nothing challenging. Just another show to help you store calories and get fat.

Bob Orci doing a CIA TV show??? Well THAT should be interesting. It’s hard for me to imagine Bob doing a show about the same organization that brought us MKULTRA in an altogether positive way.

7. Dac - September 24, 2010

Hawaii 5-0 was fantastic fun, and I certainly intend to watch more. Shit my Dad says on the other hand was just the opposite. Everything Shatner said was gold, its a shame every other aspect of the show was shit.

As for undercovers i’m afraid the spy couple thing just doesn’t interest me at all in the slightest. I wish it well, but I’m afraid I won’t be watching.

8. Boborci - September 24, 2010

6. I know, right? Gonna have to figure out how to navigate.

9. Thomas - September 24, 2010

I’ve read a few reviews for Shat My Dad Says, mainly because I missed watching it, that said the show was bad but Shatner was good. One review pointed out that Shatner is genuinely funny but that his style doesn’t really fit the sitcom mold. It seems like every year there’s a new show that starts strong and seems like it will defy the odds, but drops off fast and winds up getting cancelled. Shat My Dad says might be that show.

10. Jilly - September 24, 2010

I love the Shat, but his new show simply sucks.

11. Andy Patterson - September 24, 2010

I’m loyal to the Shatner. I watched the show for him. It’s not a very good show but no one can say I’m not loyal. I don’t see it lasting a season. Sorry.

Hmm, JJ’s show didn’t perform.

12. Anselmo - September 24, 2010

As far as having genre stars in the new Hawaii Five-O, Alex O’Loughlin can also be counted -anyone remembers “Moonlight”
Yes, James Marsters is not the only ex-vampire in Hawaii Five-O.

13. Valar1 - September 24, 2010

Great job on 5-O guys! Well done, it kept me interested, Scott Caan was hilarious, and Boomer was great to look at. I loved every minute of it.

14. P Technobabble - September 24, 2010

I had to work, so I missed the Shat. But my girlfriend watched it and said she thought it was okay, and hoped it might get better. She said the last 5 minutes was the best part of the show, but the rest was unnatural, just a series of one-liners. Of course, I trust her judgement completely…

I like this idea “Exit Strategy,” watching agents go about fixing “operations gone bad.” I’ll bet there are a gazillion stories out there!
This certainly doesn’t sound like your typical cop show, and sounds like it might have a sort of Mission: Impossible flavor to it.

15. Kev-1 - September 24, 2010

Shatner’s show had a couple of good laughs, which is rare (for me, anyway) in most current comedies. And I had zero expectations going in. 5-0 will probably need good stories over explosions and gunfire to work long term.

16. Captain Kathryn - September 24, 2010

Instead of titling the name of the show with a body function and offend lots of Shatner fans, why not just call it “Shat , My Dad Says”.. Everyone will get it ! Great title, I think!

17. Captain Dunsel - September 24, 2010

Sorry – I couldn’t take more than about 15 minutes of Hawaii Five-O.

There are two kinds of TiVo usage – 1) speeding past the commercials to get back to the good stuff, and 2) pausing the show itself to clip your toenails, check the placement of your shoes for the morning, etc.

When I realized I’d spent 30 minutes slogging through that first quarter hour, I decidfed that was enough.

Paint-by-numbers TV, pure and simple.

18. AJ - September 24, 2010

As a way to mute, briefly, the experience of glee experienced by Messrs. Orci and Kurtzmann at their success, I dredged up a 1970s punk version of the H5-0 theme by UK supergroup, “Splodgenessaabounds”.

It’s really, really cool until, well…

Enjoy and destroy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9AnUs2urC4

19. EddieB&W - September 24, 2010

Go Bill, Go Pies…..

20. Vultan - September 24, 2010

I thought Shatner’s show was so-so. The ending with the Girl Scouts and the shotgun did make me laugh, but the rest was forgettable sitcom rubbish. Strangely, I thought while watching it that the relationship between Shat and his family would work better as a non-laugh track “dramedy.”

But I will give it another viewing next week to see if it improves. Pilots (especially sitcom pilots) are almost always rough and awkward; the actors are still in the process of getting to know their characters while the writing is generally shoddy. Just go back and watch the pilot to Seinfeld!

21. John from Cincinnati - September 24, 2010

Just ONE question:

Why is it ok for the new Hawaii Five-O to have the same theme music…

…but TOS fans are ‘fanboys’ because they wanted the USS Enterprise to look more familiar, or the bridge, or Engineering or even having the TOS theme music? Huh? Why the double standard?

22. T2 - September 24, 2010

Shatner continues to prove why he is The Shat. No matter what role he’s given, it’s pure entertainment. Unfortunately I was disappointed at the poor acting from a couple of his co-stars. I like the idea of going back to the classic sitcom format of the ’60s, ’70s, and ’80s, because TV needs more bread and butter like that, but it needs some tweaking.

23. dmduncan - September 24, 2010

8. “Gonna have to figure out how to navigate.”

Carefully. I want you involved with Star Trek for a long time to come. ; )

There’s good and bad in any organization, right? People who want to do the right thing and people who’ve sacrificed their consciences to believe the ends justify the means. Eisenhower has already given you the core of the conflict. Converting his speech into an action story could be a very cool thing to see. It might even prove to be a benefit to society.

24. Simon - September 24, 2010

#21 – Music is one thing. Not having cellphones, old cars & aircraft, etc. is another. It would look pretty stupid to have the regulars tooling around in a 1972 Plymouth looking for a pay phone, while examining punch cards from the local room-sized computer.

25. Captain Conrad - September 24, 2010

“It’s Shotgun time!” Best line of the show! It’s funny I like it!

26. bill hiro - September 24, 2010

Shatner is invincible.

And the 1972 Plymouth was a lovely automobile.

27. sean - September 24, 2010

Bill is funny but his show is not. Community (a show with, ya know, actual laughs) got a pretty good joke out of it when one of the characters contemplates whether he can make a TV show out of Twitter account and all the other characters respond by saying it would never work.

28. Vultan - September 24, 2010

#21

Good point!

#24

“Music is one thing. Not having cellphones, old cars & aircraft, etc. is another.”

It’s seems to be working for Mad Men! ;)

29. Vultan - September 24, 2010

Correction: It seems to be working for Mad Men! ;)

30. Julie - September 24, 2010

$#*! My Dad Says was okay. Shatner was terrific!

I can’t imagine watching Hawaii 5-0 as I hated it the first time, but I might check it out to see Alex O’Loughlin. I watched the entire DVD set of Moonlight a couple of weeks ago and liked him a lot.

31. Thorny - September 24, 2010

I liked Hawaii Five-O, but I thought it moved too fast (a common complaint these days) and really should have been a two-hour or two-parter episode. Also, while the ratings were good, after the HUGE promotion for the show, I have to think CBS is a tad disappointed that Five-O got lower ratings than running-on-fumes CSI Miami did one year ago. “Castle” is really eating into what was once a dominant timeslot for CBS.

Bleep My Dad Says needs work. Fast. Shatner was terrific but he looked as embarrassed delivering those lines as he did in “Spock’s Brain”. Denny Crane this character is not. The guy playing Shatner’s son was awful, and the writing was even worse. Not that no one saw this coming for a show based on a Twitter feed. In the last few years, we’ve had a sitcom based on a commercial (“Cavemen”), a movie based on a blog (“Julie and Julia”) and now a sitcom based on a Twitter feed. The first two flopped and almost no one seems to have liked Bleep My Dad Says despite the big ratings (which will likely continue against NBCs and ABCs flops.)

“Big Bang Theory” has now proven it is not a time slot phenomenon after all, although that was far from the show’s best episode (the Howard storyline was so over the top it could be seen from the Space Station.)

32. ety3 - September 24, 2010

I’m sorry, but I was unimpressed by all three. “5-0″ was so cliché it was boring, “Shit” was just that and “Undercovers” was … nice, but not much more.

Just my opinions. Judging by the numbers and the other comments, I’m in the minority. As usual.

33. Thorny - September 24, 2010

21… They actually used a variation of the classic Five-O theme for the pilot. It was absolutely awful (it may have been intended to be temporary all along, but thank heavens they changed it.) So they went to something very close to (though much shorter than) the original, which in all likelihood is the greatest TV theme song ever written. No problem at all with reusing it. (I just wish we’d get the 60 second version.)

But why was the opening credits sequence filtered down to look grainy, with those “interlace” like lines through it? This is HAWAII… beautiful scenery and beautiful girls. Why in the world are they trying to hide it?

And what? No distant pull in to McGarrett on the balcony? Come on!

(And no teaser for next week with “Be there, aloha!” either, but I didn’t expect that and it would sound silly coming from O’Loughlin anyway. There is no authority in his voice like there was for Jack Lord.)

34. Enc - September 24, 2010

ill agree with ‘undercovers’ geting low marks.

but i have to say for 5-0 that it looks to be a good show in the FUTURE. but that first ep was a solid no higher then a ‘D+’

35. Basement Blogger - September 24, 2010

Speaking of “Lost” and “Star Trek” did you see the YouTube parody of when the crew of Star Trek visits the Island of “Lost” and try to figure out what is going on? If you haven’t I’ve linked it below.

1. Star Trek visits “Lost.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_Q_mkw-Vw&feature=related

2. Extra. Frustrated with Lost’s “interpret it any way you want” plot lines? This video allows you to kill of Hurley in four different ways. I like Magneto’s offing of the fat guy the best. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1P42e8TmHY

36. Amorican - September 24, 2010

I knew Undercovers would not do well the moment I saw it stars black people. These networks should really consult with me before they put stuff on the air.

1.)The premier didn’t do well because people weren’t going to watch black people. If it ain’t a Huxtable, America ain’t tuning in.

2.)Those who watched it didn’t think it was very good, because hollywood won’t put black people in starring roles on shows that are actually good.

[/soap box rant]

37. Sam - September 24, 2010

Am I crazy, or did I see footage from “Wolverine” in the 5-0 opening credits?

(The rocket-equipped chopper and the exploding Humvee.)

38. JamfoFL - September 24, 2010

“$H*! My Dad Says” was OK… I wouldn’t go out of my way to watch it… but it does have an extremely adventageous time slot wedged between BBT (which is proving to be a ratings winner on its own) and the original CSI. It will certainly be given a chance to evolve as a show unless it starts hemorraging BBTs lead-in numbers.

Best Shat line of the night though was right after the actor playing his son mocks his father “by… over… emoting… each… word” in typical Shat fashion. To which Shatner replies, “why can’t anyone do a good impersonation of me?” Sometimes, the inside jokes work best!

39. Hateya - September 24, 2010

Undercovers is doing quite well in illegal downloads. It seems as though people beyond America’s borders actually enjoyed watching the quasi-black folks in a romantic spy comedy with cutesy dialogue. Go figure… market elsewhere, JJ!!!

40. Thorny - September 24, 2010

Oops, I take it back. The Five-O intro does have the long pull in to McGarrett on the balcony. Blink and you’ll miss it (which I did the first time.)

41. CmdrR - September 24, 2010

Thank goodness they put BACK the big brass sound on H5O’s theme. The twangy computer crap didn’t cut it. Anyway — not a bad pilot. Need to see more character development. Pretty standard stuff so far. Don’t get a sense of the new chemistry, although there were a few fun bits. It’d be nice to see no more than 2-3 ‘splosions/car chases per ep and some time spent getting to know everyone. That makes the ‘splosions more exciting, because we care who gets ‘sploded.

42. TheJoCor - September 24, 2010

My mom HATES Shatner. Even hated him as Denny Crane. Told me there was no way she’d watch his new show knowing how very excited I was about it.

She just so happened to stick around for it after the Big Bang Theory and said she had to admit she thought it was hilarious and will now be tivo-ing it regularly.

Nicely done Bill

43. Amorican - September 24, 2010

#39. . . this proves my point. America won’t watch black people, but the rest of the world will.

My only question, what in the heck are “quasi-black folks”??

44. Buzz Cagney - September 24, 2010

Good job on the early success of 5-0 guys. I hope it continues to flourish. I noticed we aren’t having to wait to long for it here in the UK, so i will give it a look.

45. Buzz Cagney - September 24, 2010

#21 you generalised just a little there, didn’t you John! I can only answer it by saying 5-0 doesn’t have much weight of history behind it, unlike TOS.

46. Amorican - September 24, 2010

My favorite part was when he was all “blah blah blah calls me dano” and his buddy laughed at him. . . and he was all that’s not funny

and the later, the dude was like “book him dano” and i was like omgwtf did he really just say that?!!?!

TOP NOTCH WRITING!!!

47. Simon - September 24, 2010

#43 – I guess that explains why Oprah is helplessly unpopular and the Cosby juggernaut of the 80’s to 90’s were an illusion perpetrated by THE MAN.

48. Boborci - September 25, 2010

46. Pays the bills.

49. Stan Winstone - September 25, 2010

Wow- the promo from Undercovers looks like a black parody of white people in bad action series from a Tyler Perry movie…

50. Amorican - September 25, 2010

#47 – I already mentioned Cosby in my first post #36. There are a few safe negroes out there that America will watch. Cosby and Oprah. Can you name any other shows with black casts doing well?

Ever wonder why TNG did better than DS9 in the ratings?

On TNG, the black guy was kept in his place by massah whitey captain. White people love that. Dude couldn’t even score with chicks without a holodeck. They made him blind too, just so Americans wouldn’t have to be afraid he might steal their wallet. Even the casting is suspect. Cast the black dude who’d already passed the “you’re safe for white people” test. We already saw him beaten and whipped in the late 70s, so we kinda felt bad for him. And he taught our kids to read on PBS.

Why did DS9 not do as well in the ratings? Three words Avery M’F’ing Brooks. That dude was dangerous and they put him in charge. White folks can’t handle that = lower ratings.

So now back to Undercovers. We gots two mostly unknown black folks (or quasi-black folks, whatever that other poster meant) who haven’t yet passed the “you’re safe for white people” test in America. Add to that the chick has an African sounding name, and white people are running for the hills. This show won’t have a second season.

Meanwhile, people are going to eat up that Hawaii 5-0 crapfest.

51. Amorican - September 25, 2010

48. I understand. Just messin with ya. I actually only caught the show from the point in the car ride up where he first says “danno” to the end. It did induce some severe eye rolling from myself and my girlfriend, but we know what ya gotta do to put food on the kids’ plates.

52. Amorican - September 25, 2010

Oh and I forgot . . . the other black guy on TNG, they gave him a bumpy forehead and had him run around the Enterprise screaming like an animal. He was truely frightening, but managed to maintain his guard-dog status for 7 years while the sexy Jean-Luc kept him on a short leash.

53. Basement Blogger - September 25, 2010

Hawaii 5-0 was okay. There’s too much testosterone on the screen. Could do without the unrealistic two cops without backup charging the bad guys. I’m a little concerned that this show might have a serial plotline because after wasting my life with Lost, I’m going to be very careful with my TV watching time. Yes, I know the original had running narrative. What I did like was they kept the theme pretty much intact, no hip hop version. I understand timing issues prevent them from doing the whole theme from the sixties. Don’t do that with Star Trek. Another thing I liked was Danno. He’s a three dimensional character. He’s tough but vulnerable with weaknesses. That’s going to make him the breakout star.

54. DJT - September 25, 2010

@ 48. Boborci

“46. Pays the bills.”

Niiiice!!

55. Jim Nightshade - September 25, 2010

Congrats to orci prime on 5-0s great ratings—shat my dad says was ok–the shat was the only aspect of the show that was inspired–big bang was hilarious–the guy playin sheldon deserves the emmy he won—fringe was great–smallville tonite was pretty good–we saw the suit–but–it looks like its the one with the embossed plasticy supes emblem from superman returns–never liked that suit much–so is tom w gonna morph into brandon rothe-haha–but this final season does seem to be amping up the myth n legend–oh yeh lois hangin on the cross in the corn field with the tight s shirt–yummmm hah hah–i coulda done without the green arrow torturing however- _

56. Mark Lynch - September 25, 2010

#50, 51 and 52

I have never heard so much shite so quickly in many, many years, That chip on your shoulder must be hurting. Racism is bad enough when it is real, worse when imagined.

I am from the UK so maybe my sensibilities are different.

But I can’t believe the American majority have a racist attitude toward black people any longer. Otherwise, how the hell did Obama get elected?

57. ety3 - September 25, 2010

#56 –

It’s not just you. Amorican is full of shit.

“Undercovers” was up against “Survivor,” “Hell’s Kitchen” and “The Middle” — three established shows with followings (esp. “Survivor”).

58. Daoud - September 25, 2010

@48. Can we send you some bills? :D

(Ah, and had you included the okina in Hawai’i, Islanders would probably really appreciate that. It’s never too late to get them to fix the title card to Hawai’i.)

59. Sloan47 - September 25, 2010

Amorican, take your racist crap somewhere else.

60. Thorny - September 25, 2010

“Fringe” was the best show of Thursday night. So… has our Olivia really gone to the dark side or is she just faking it because she knows she can’t go home?

(Tom Cruise is a TV star over there. ROFL!)

By the way, for anyone who missed Hawaii Five-O on Monday night, CBS is re-running it tonight (Saturday).

61. Captain Kathryn - September 25, 2010

Amorican –
Me thinks you a little on the paranoid side. Do you ever just enjoy life at all?

62. Captain Kathryn - September 25, 2010

Oh and I will not be surprised for you to remove my #63 blog also!

63. dmduncan - September 25, 2010

Amorican, you do sound paranoid. Like you’re posting between ransacking your cupboards for munchies and looking out the peephole for cops.

64. Vultan - September 25, 2010

#50

Amorican, I’m white as Wonder Bread and Benjamin Sisko is my favorite captain in Star Trek. Race doesn’t (and shouldn’t) matter to Trekkies.

Take your delusions elsewhere.

65. Red Dead Ryan - September 25, 2010

Amorican is a troll and a moron. Just ignore him.

66. The TOS Purist aka The Purolator - September 25, 2010

The idea behind “Undercovers” is cool, because we need more positive portrayals of married couples in TV (and movies). But I think it would be more interesting if they were a mixed-race couple. OR if they had hired actors who looked less white and more African. Their skintones are very light (next to the white people in the show, they don’t look much different), and their features (especially that of the woman’s) are very Caucasoid.

But of course, hiring African-Americans who look “less black” has been a Hollywood tradition for some time now. Halle Berry was the “go-to” actress for a black female role for a while (until she turned 40 and therefore became “too old”), since she was half-white and only looked quasi-black due to a slightly-darker-than-white skintone.

Ugh, you’d think they would have moved on from this racist crap by now…

67. Buzz Cagney - September 25, 2010

I thought we had, 67.

68. dmduncan - September 25, 2010

Undercovers could have been improved by the casting of someone like Idris Elba in the male lead rather than Boris Kodjoe, who looks more like a daytime soap star than a legendary CIA agent. No offense meant to Boris, but he has the gravitas of a Sears catalog model.

69. BiggestTOSfanever - September 25, 2010

I thought Five-O was pretty good, it is my Mom’s absolute favorite show (the original version) she is in fact a Five-O expert. There are a couple of things she wanted Bob Orci to know.
-McGarrett doesn’t drink (except when he’s undercover.)
-The new show was more violent (too much for her taste.)
-It needs the jazzy, sophisticated, music.
-She thought it was cool that the Kono character was female.
-And she also greatly enjoyed seeing it revitalized.
Good job Bob Orci! :)

70. Jazzocracy - September 25, 2010

Undercovers was an intelligent , funny, action drama with characters and actors that have tons of chemistry. I like these people, and I get them! Of course, I also liked Firefly, Kings, Journeyman, Terminator: Sarah Conner Chronicles, and Frank’s Place. Guess I’m not the demographic advertisers are targeting.

71. Amorican - September 25, 2010

Y’all get your feathers ruffled to easily. I thought Hawaii 5-0 was cheesy but I understand paying the bills. Shat was funny but the show was stupid and will last about as long as Cavemen did. Undercovers I will give more of a chance, but I still don’t see it lasting long. I stand by my reasoning for its lack of success. I predicted it from the first frame of the promo.

72. captain_neill - September 25, 2010

Could Undercovers have underperformed because JJ Abrams is a one trick pony

Undercovers a spy show, he did Alias which was a spy show.

He is doing Alcatraz, a mystery show set on an island. What was Lost then?

73. VZX - September 25, 2010

The S#%@ my Dad Says show was OK, but I didnt even finished watching it and just deleted it from my DVR.

I wish I had more time to watch all these new shows. Hawaii 5-0 sounds cool. I’ll record it and watch it when I get a chance.

Dang, Bob Orci is like the most gainfully employed fanboy on the planet.

74. Gary - September 25, 2010

“Undercovers” was boring. I’m sure the leads are upstanding human beings, but they had no on-screen chemistry. The writing pedestrian. The sycophantic waiter/spy dude was cliched. Cancel it.

75. Vultan - September 25, 2010

#74

Yes, sadly, you hit the nail on the head there—a fanboy. More and more of them seem to be infiltrating the studios these days. Which is good for them… but not so good for the rest of us (who enjoy well-written stories and dialogue over super megaton ‘splosions and scatalogical references).

Hope you like remakes. Carnac foresees many more on the way….

76. Red Skirt - September 25, 2010

One word for all three: Forced.

And Bill Shatner is so far above the hackneyed humor in that sitcom, I can’t believe he even agreed to do it. It really is beneath him. After being a devoted fan of Boston Legal, I must say he brings his usual professionalism to the gig, but honestly, I don not know how that pilot got greenlit, much less picked up for series.

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

77. Red Dead Ryan - September 25, 2010

77

Yeah, I highly doubt that William Shatner, Bob Orci and J.J Abrams care what you think. As for “Shit My Dad Says” being “beneath” William Shatner, that is your opinion and yours only. You’re just like Jeyl. You have this smug, condescending ‘I know better than everyone else’ attitude that has gotten tiresome a long time ago. You claim to be a big fan of “Lost”, “Fringe” and “Star Trek” but yet seem to slam and insult the writers/directors every chance you get.

78. Greg2600 - September 25, 2010

I’m glad that the show got good ratings. On twitter, Bill has been pretty nervous and unsure about whether it would, and whether people would like him and find him funny. I haven’t watched the show yet, largely because I despise network sitcoms.

79. Vultan - September 25, 2010

#77

You’re not alone in your opinion. The material was well below Shatner’s talents. He seemed bored with most of it.

#78

I don’t know about Shatner and Abrams, but Orci obviously must care a little or he wouldn’t frequent this website and take the shots that many of us (me included) throw his way. I’m not a big fan of his work, but you gotta give the guy props for coming here and putting up a defense, answering fan questions, etc.

80. Thorny - September 25, 2010

69… “No offense meant to Boris, but he has the gravitas of a Sears catalog model.”

Best line of the thread!

And I feel exactly the same way about Alex O’Loughlin. Hawaii Five-O needed someone a tad older and more authoritative. This show is like watching “NCIS” with no Gibbs but DiNozzo were in charge.

81. Thorny - September 25, 2010

77… “I can’t believe he even agreed to do it.”

With all due respect to Mr. Shatner, I honestly don’t think there is anything the man won’t do if the price is right (that explains “Generations” and those Priceline commercials). CBS must have paid well.

78… Just a quick search will reveal that almost no professional critics (i.e., major newspapers or entertainment web sites) liked “Bleep My Dad Says”, and most of them absolutely hated it, so I think maybe you could give Red Skirt a break.

Myself, I thought Mr. Shatner did the best he could, but I felt very much like I was watching Mr. Shatner in “Spock’s Brain” or “The Way to Eden” (or even “Kingdom of the Spiders”). The script was terrible and he knew it, but he was there trying his best to sell it. Mr. Shatner was the only thing good about the show. The son was terrible and the other characters, whoever they were, barely registered, not even generating a snicker. Kudos to Mr. Shatner for trying to turn lemons into lemonade.

“Bleep My Dad Says” will be a timeslot hit, but the moment it is moved out (so that CBS can promote a new show after the popular “Big Bang Theory”) its ratings will tank. It will not be back for a second season.

82. Jim Nightshade - September 25, 2010

The dad in bleep my dad says is kinda like this generations archie bunker–as written so far,a dumbed down bunker for the modern era–it may get better if given a chance

83. MJ - September 25, 2010

What made the Original 5-0 such a great show is that it had a dose of realism to it. This show did not — a Governor of state can’t set up a no questions asked/no checks and balances secret police organization, even if it makes plots more interesting for a one hour tv drama. The original show did not violate this believability constraint.

84. Red Dead Ryan - September 25, 2010

80

Very true. But only to a certain extent. Bob cannot be a slave to the opinions of internet dwellers like us. He has to trust his own instincts as a professional writer, even if it means some people end up hating his work (and ironically, even more fans would hate his work if he did adhere to every fan’s desires). Its just that I feel there are people on this site who are too upset that Bob didn’t give them the movie they wanted or that there were things about “Star Trek” that left them feeling cold. And some of those people have been unfairly harsh towards the writers who have written only one film so far. Since “Star Trek” was financially and critically successful I think Bob and Alex deserve a lot of credit. If the next movie bombs at the box office, then the writers will have to accept the blame. But until we get to see the sequel in the theatres, we will have to reserve judgement and cut the guys some slack.

82

I just think people should keep things in perspective. It was only the first episode. The next several episodes will obviously be pivotal, but one cannot get in a tiff over one episode. I missed the premier, so I’ll definitely have to tune in to next week’s episode. The show could succeed eventually; even “Seinfeld” needed a few episodes to find its groove.

85. Anthony Thompson - September 25, 2010

48.

Nice that you admitted that. But, really, a well-conceived remake would have also paid the bills. You did a good job of paying homage to the original characters in Star Trek (with the exception of Scotty). So why trash the characters of Five-O?

And why insult the intelligence of the audience with the “your way, no red tape” promise from the governor? That might work in a banana republic, but in the US??? Pure fantasy!

86. MJ - September 25, 2010

#86 — EXACTLY!!! See my post at #84

It is too bad they went this route, because the ensemble cast has potential.

87. Boborci - September 26, 2010

86. That’s how it is in the US my friend! Patriot act, etc. The constitution, currently, is the fantasy.

88. Buzz Cagney - September 26, 2010

#80 Vultan, I had doubts about Orci and co. picking up Trek, Vultan, and I also chipped a few unfair insults at Bob on here (which I will regret ever more) but he took it with his trademark good humour.
But it wasn’t so much the last Trek that won me over (though it certainly helped!) it was when I read Bob say that the music to TWoK always brings tears to his eyes.
At that point he won me over completely. That was when I knew he ‘got it’. He understood. He was a fan.
That being said, Mr Orci, I do have massive expectations of the next Trek. You have been fairly warned! :-D

89. captain_neill - September 26, 2010

Are there too many remakes these days?

90. Enc - September 26, 2010

88
i didnt see that in the ep
that kind of thiking MIGHT have been ok on 9-12 (w/controversy)
but now its a bit behind the times. youre kinda late to use it.
whats the real reason? the curent law in that state? how does the show compare.

91. AJ - September 26, 2010

88:

Bob:

“That’s how it is in the US my friend! Patriot act, etc. The constitution, currently, is the fantasy.”

Is that a Trek2012 ‘allegory bomb’ you just dropped? LOL.

92. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#88

Uh, hate to spoil your little fascist fantasy island thing you got going there, but the Patriot Act was passed twice (publicly) by a majority in Congress (by both parties, mind you), not by a single governor with an executive producer complex. ;)

93. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

@93: I think you are laboring under the false notion that the parties are more different than they really are.

94. Kahless - September 26, 2010

Hawaii Five 0 is an excellent, well shot show, and sure they act more like rogue Blackwater operators than cops, but this is entertainment , it delivers on every level, the movie quality photography, the stunts, etc.
I find Alex O’Loughlin’s Mcgarrett to be very Kirk-like in the way he takes charge and get things done quickly, (if unrealistically) who wants to see yet another boring procedural like NCIS, with annoying actors reciting lousy scripts, investigating crimes after the fact .

95. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#94

Not at all. I was just pointing out that these things are often done very publicly and very stupidly by people who don’t read the laws they’re passing, not by the black helicopter government Orci and his Hollywood crowd seem to believe actually exists outside of their screenplays.

96. AJ - September 26, 2010

93,94

Here we enter the Forbidden Zone again. If “Star Trek” chooses to treat the ‘Patriot’ Act as the basis for an allegorical story, do we have the right to discuss it?

I firmly believe that ‘Star Trek’ must remain entertainment for the masses, while provoking our gray matter into action. TOS laid it out for us in “A Private Little War,” where Kirk and McCoy took opposite sides and yelled out some basic talking points about the Vietnam “brush wars of the 20th century.”

Or we get the Planet Cheron or Eminiar VII and Vendikar (with laughable differences in quality) to show us the end result of an arms race. Though, “A Taste of Armageddon” removes the Military-Industrial Complex from the equation, and how it can positively boost economic growth, it shows the horrors of war in in just so much starker a lens.

Cheron is a lost cause, but in “Armageddon,” the show ends with hope. Hope tends to resonate with both sides of the aisle. I hope Trek2012 will continue the tradition.

97. Harry Ballz - September 26, 2010

89. Buzz Cagney “I do have massive expectations of the next Trek”

Hey, Buzz, I think you’ve just nailed what the title of the next Trek film will be…..

Star Trek: Massive Expectations

Oooooh, me likey! :>)

98. Harry Ballz - September 26, 2010

I think AJ has hit on an important point. With Vulcan destroyed, the Federation, while in a state of total disarray, will likely be under attack from various enemies. During such chaotic times the Federation would certainly give Starfleet much more latitude and scope in addressing the situation. This certainly provides an interesting backdrop for drama where one particular new captain can prove how to get the job done with his “original thinking” and save the day. It will also go a long way (by the end of movie #2) in proving to both the audience and disgruntled Starfleet officers that the “kid” is not a fluke and deserves to sit in “the big chair”.

Who knows, maybe even “cupcake” will salute his new captain by movie’s end!

99. Thorny - September 26, 2010

Well, I don’t demand that TV shows exist in the real world… if they did, TV would get very boring very quickly. Therefore, I don’t mind that the CSI franchise has amazing state-of-the-art lab facilities (whose budget must be larger than the Pentagon’s) and instant results (instead of weeks or months for the real world), and I don’t mind that Five-O gets to operate a little outside the law now and then. I don’t mind Five-O taking on international crime and espionage, and I don’t mind characters getting shot in one scene and then running a marathon a scene or two later.

However, there needs to be a touch of believability. CSI’s labs and toys are hugely expensive, but they don’t violate the laws of physics (well, not often.)

But I have trouble with the Governor of Hawaii setting up an elite, no-red-tape, laws-be-damned police force and then putting a 30-ish guy in charge. Sorry, even assuming the laws-be-damned edict would ever happen, there would be an experienced 50-ish guy in charge. I think this is another example of the “youthifying” of TV and movies in pursuit of the almighty 18-24 demographic, realism be damned. First we got a Superman who looked to be barely old enough to buy a beer, then we got a 20-something Academy cadet in command of Starfleet’s flagship, now we get a 30-ish Steve McGarrett in charge of an unlimited police force.

Sorry, I don’t buy it. Hopefully, McGarrett in the premiere was acting like a jerk simply because his Dad had just been murdered and that’s why he didn’t care if he started World War III with China (but then the Governor should have fired his ass.) Hopefully he’ll mature into a true leader in upcoming episodes.

100. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

@97: Star Trek was also subversive towards the status quo of the 60’s. Captain Kirk was rebellious towards the establishment in contrast to Picard who became the press agent for the 23rd century’s version of the UN, which probably explains why TNG was so popular in Europe.

94: “I was just pointing out that these things are often done very publicly and very stupidly by people who don’t read the laws they’re passing”

Yeah, and that also gives them plausible deniability to say “we didn’t know.” Meanwhile it becomes law. Who would have thought it needed to be stated that lawmakers actually have to READ and UNDERSTAND laws along with the full range of their possible consequences before they can pass them? Reams of incomprehensible legislation become a Machiavellian tool on the part of some to pass any damned thing they want while allowing politicians to cover their asses at election time. And if you’re strung out on TV, what do you care? Do you know who Cass Sunstein is? Do you know what “cognitive infiltration” is?

The military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about has come to pass. It is real. The American people are a tennis ball in an illusory game between two opponents that only appear to be on opposite sides of the net.

101. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

Oh Bob, by the way, I had an idea for a just-say-no ad campaign. I’m sure this would go down real well in Hollywood.

One after the other, a series of people appear on screen alone against a black background, their illegal drug of choice set out on a table in front of them. Looking straight into the camera each one says the same thing. They each give their name and say, for example, “My name is Danny Wright, and I support the murder of innocent Mexicans by drug cartels.”

102. Disinvited - September 26, 2010

History backs Orci up on this – although the Patriot Act has little to do with it.

There’s a little something called Martial Law that governors of states can declare that gives them the power to give carte blanc.

While it isn’t explicitly called “Martial Law” in the U.S. Constitution, the president and Congress each have similar powers that are labeled as Martial Law when either invokes it.

As his FIVE-O’s governor is as fictitious as its terrorist cell responsible for Steve’s father’s death, all Bob has to do is have her declare Martial Law in response to that threat, which one can imagine will be there for the duration of the series. And Martial law can be limited or expanded as needed. Even so, Federal Law can still trump FIVE-O and its governor and maybe this is where Bob plans to draw on the PA?

Of course, this angle isn’t going to make him and Alex very popular with the Hawaiian Tourism Bureau or the state’s Chambers of Commerce. They may have to fall back to shooting at Catalina if they raise enough hackles over there.

Also, Governor is an elected position in Hawaii so there’s a limit to how long this carte blanc can last.

103. Boborci - September 26, 2010

Obama has extended the technical state of emergency that Bush decreed after 911. If u follow such things, u know this means thhat the constitution has been suspended for the last decade or so.

104. Thorny - September 26, 2010

103… “There’s a little something called Martial Law that governors of states can declare that gives them the power to give carte blanc.”

But it is exclusively used in a state of emergency and gets the attention of every news organization in the country with round-the-clock nonstop coverage on CNN. “HAWAII GOVERNOR DECLARES MARTIAL LAW… STAY TUNED FOR FURTHER UPDATES…” crawling across the bottom of the screen.

McGarrett’s father’s murder is not a state of emergency.

105. Thorny - September 26, 2010

104… Bob, only a little of it, with very specific limits (essentially terrorism). Basically, our rights went back to about what they were in the 1960s and 1970s (not coincidentally the last time the US was involved in a major war) before Carter, Kennedy and O’Neill neutered the FBI, CIA and other security organizations. I guess that explains the revival of Hawaii Five-O.

106. Boborci - September 26, 2010

Very specific limits? I like that. Limitiing free speech, very specific. Unlawful search and seizure, very specific. Limiting right to tiral by jury, very specific. Allowing the assassination of us citizens, also very specific. Allowing torture, very specific. Undeclared wars, very specific. Aside from thses things, you are right, very limited!

107. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

Yep. We don’t declare wars anymore. Death by drones overseas; judge, jury, and executioner, even if you’re American. And they are working very hard to expand the use of drones here in America. Also, the SIZE of the drones is of concern. Soon, the fly on the wall or the bird outside your window may not be what you think. This is not paranoid, this is real. The technology is already here. Fourth Amendment under assault. Unholy alliances between huge corporations like Google and government exist.

All under the excuse of protecting us, either from terrorists or threat of illness. I don’t know about you guys but I’m feeling nostalgic for the old dangers. The new ones are insidiously homegrown.

108. Buzz Cagney - September 26, 2010

Star Trek 2.0: Great Expectations would roll easier off the tongue, Harry!

I don’t think we’ve had nearly enough Victorians Christmas’s in Trek movies over the years. Or would that be one too many Victorian Christmas’s? Its definitely one of those.

109. Buzz Cagney - September 26, 2010

Here you go, DMDuncan, maybe this story will make you feel reassured that there are still some ‘classic’ dangers out there…….

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1315339/UFOs-attacked-U-S-nuclear-missile-sites-Retired-Air-Force-Officers-break-silence.html

‘Sounds like fun’!

110. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

@110: The old Soviets have also reported nuke tampering. The story itself is not new, but be interesting to see if there’s any new twist.

111. Thorny - September 26, 2010

107… None of these things began only after 9/11 or are due to the Patriot Act. We’ve always had them to one degree or another (free speech: no, you can’t yell ‘Fire’ in a crowded theater, Korea and Vietnam were undeclared wars as well, read up on J. Edgar Hoover about unlawful search and seizure) And curiously, we never had a 9/11 until we tried to pretend it was a nice peaceful world out there where no one wanted to hurt us. If you were older than 35-ish you’d know that, but you grew up blessed in a time with no war and very few significant threats to the US. Those days were an aberration unlikely to be repeated in our lifetimes. We all wish we could go back to those days, but wishing does not make it so.

112. Buzz Cagney - September 26, 2010

It will indeed DMD. I will be looking out for this tomorrow.
It would be interesting to hear if it gets much ‘air-time’ in the US.

113. Boborci - September 26, 2010

Agreed that these things are old, but they haven’t been as codified and accepted as they are now. Nixon faced and article of impeachment for his aggression toward neighboring Cambodia during Vietnam. Not today. And thanks to people much older than 35–ish, this slide into whatever we are sliding into has been mostly unopposed.

As for nostalgia, seems to me the threats today are much less than they were before.

114. Thorny - September 26, 2010

114…. “As for nostalgia, seems to me the threats today are much less than they were before.”

Let’s keep it that way.

115. AJ - September 26, 2010

May I suggest something?

Look. I’m a liberal Trekker, and I agree with Bob. I don’t like the reduction in freedoms, I don’t like that the US continues to invest in Afghanistan instead of jobs, and I support satirists like Stephen Colbert when they call truth to power in front of a legless Congress about the net effect of immigration. Fine.

The real issue is: Is the “Shatner/Hawaii 5-0″ thread a forum for this discussion? I’d like to to keep reading it, essentially because Mr. Orci is a known writer for Trek, and he and his bud have another successful new show out, and we want to tease ‘Trek2012′ stuff out of them.

Can we keep the yada-yada down to a certain level, so we don’t get canceled?

116. Andy Patterson - September 26, 2010

Mr. Orci,

If you’re still on here, and I know this is not the subject of this thread, but here’s an idea for your villain in the next movie. I think it’s as good an idea as anyone I’ve heard bantied about. Since you probably won’t go with Ron Tracy, whom I think personally was the greatest villain Kirk ever faced. How ’bout going with Dr. Sevrin and his hippie followers. You have to admit it would be bold and daring. No one would have guessed that. Now wait, before everyone skewers me over that suggestion. That episode has always been dismissed by everyone. Doohan himself said it was a “nothing” episode. I disagree. I loved it as a kid. I don’t contend it’s the greatest episode ever but it’s not a “nothing’ episode.

It gave Chekov a back story.

It introduced a subculture, it’s idealogical beliefs and it’s lingo all within the confines of a single episode (something the old show did so well).

And there were bold predictions 40 years ahead of it’s time of diseases and immunity issues we have today because of overly sterilized living conditions. THERE’S your angle right there….now that I think of it. And I always thought the music was cool. I’m not ashamed of it. I loved it as a kid! Oh, hey, I still do.

And it had Charles Napier. Too groovy. Real now. I reach that brother, I really do.

You could contemporize the character. Instead of making him a Timothy Leary type he could be the leader of a group of eco terrorist or some such thing. You could really make a statement on issues of today. You could even explain just who HERBERT was in more detail. Just a thought. You might even win me back after the first movie. Maybe.

117. Buzz Cagney - September 26, 2010

Sounds like a big risk to only ‘maybe’ win back the guy that suggested it, Andy! If you can up that to ‘defintely’ win you back i’ll throw out my Gorn hopes for 2.0 and get behind your suggestion. Maybe. ;-)

118. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

114: “As for nostalgia, seems to me the threats today are much less than they were before.”

I was exaggerating, but I’m not sure how you measure that really. Have we rid ourselves of some problems without making ourselves vulnerable to new and possibly worse ones? Time will tell. I mean technology is making different dangers possible than before, and at a much faster pace, perhaps too fast for us to do anything about.

And apart from what this or that official intends is the question of what the actual long term effects of their legislative actions will be.

But we’re short term thinkers, now. It’s all about the election cycle. We have no sense of deep time. If consequences do not happen immediately, we think there are none at all. Meanwhile the future approaches, oblivious of the careers or legacies of politicians.

I think we are in a self destructive Boyd Cycle. Our decision making occurs in too big a loop. Because there is only shouting and no debate. Technology is superseding politics. All bets are off when that happens. Where will it lead? I don’t know. But given the wisdom of humanity I think it’s wise to sound cautionary alarms.

119. Jim Nightshade - September 26, 2010

What is interesting about the UFO Nuclear Missle Article is that a former us Captain in charge of the base is reporting this…we have read about similar things before but never admitted officially, as mentioned in the article,,,,sworn to secrecy-interesting that more stories are coming out just as sightings everywhere seem to be increasing exponentially….

Also although Captain Picard did indeed promote Starfleets UTOPIA vision he also (and quite a few times) disobeyed and pointed out Starfleet problems when they did not meet his expectations of what he thought Starfleet should be politically and socially—Like Kirk, Picard often used his own moral compass to adjust Starfleets official rules to what did suit his viewpoints….although most of the time he did not do it in a haphazard uncilized way, he did perform similar bendings of starfleets rules as Kirk did….

120. Buzz Cagney - September 26, 2010

Thats a good post, DMD. I envy your ability to put idea’s and thoughts, such as those, so well.
And you are so right about short-term thinking. You can see that mind-set affecting so much all around us. Its very frustrating.

121. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

@116: “The real issue is: Is the “Shatner/Hawaii 5-0″ thread a forum for this discussion?”

I dunno, man. I think any opportunity to discuss this stuff whenever it arises is the right time to discuss it because it doesn’t happen enough. I mean Anthony’s house, Anthony’s rules, but if he’s not fussing then I’ll assume he’s okay with it. And Star Trek woke a lot of us up to some new ways of thinking. So if it bends the rules a little, we can always say it’s a trick we “learned from an old friend.”

122. Buzz Cagney - September 26, 2010

#120 Jim, indeed it is the interesting twist in that story.
I wonder if one of you guys could look out for what kind of coverage the story gets on your side of the pond tomorrow and let me know?
I’d be very grateful.

123. Red Dead Ryan - September 26, 2010

114

“As for nostalgia, seems to me the threats today are much less than they were before.”

As someone who was born in ’81, I must disagree with that assesment. I grew up in the final years of the Cold War. I did not worry about the Soviet Union or nuclear armageddon back then. It may be that I was a young child naive about the then-current state of the world but it seems to me that that the in past 20 years, and certainly after 9/11, the whole notion of nuclear deterrance has been thrown out the window. We have Islamic extremists and governments who are willing to sacrifice themselves in order to destroy Israel and bring down America and the west. There is a growing number of homegrown Muslim radicals in North America and Europe attempting to launch attacks against innocent civilians (both Muslim and non-Muslim) in an attempt to spread their own fascist version of Islam. The United States and Israel both have nuclear weapons but that hasn’t stopped Iran from promising to destroy Israel and create another holocaust.

The American government was responding to peoples’ fears in the wake of 9/11. Rightly or wrongly, the methods used by the government (such as torture, indefinite detention, no Miranda rights) to keep America safe were supported (and still is) by the majority of Americans.

(On the other hand, the invasion of Iraq allowed Al-Queda and the Taliban to rebuild and strengthen. Iran was ridden of its bitter enemy and deterrant, Saddam Hussein and has become an even bigger menace, allying itself with the Taliban and possibly sheltering Osama Bin Laden)

The Soviet Union and America were never going to go to war because both powers feared each other’s nuclear arsenals. Now instead of dealing with enemies of political and economic differences, we’re dealing with religious zealots. The Communists were concerned about money and material wealth just like the capitalist western countries, albeit for different reasons. But now we are facing a far more insidious and dangerous foe. Radical Muslims who are willing to die. Zealots and diehards who are willing (and desiring) to plunge the world into a new era of extreme violence, religious fascism and fanaticism as well as the erosion of human rights and the promotion of fear.

I would most definitely say we are living in more dangerous times. A lot of people would agree with me.

124. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

214: “The American government was responding to peoples’ fears in the wake of 9/11. Rightly or wrongly, the methods used by the government (such as torture, indefinite detention, no Miranda rights) to keep America safe were supported (and still is) by the majority of Americans.”

The problem is you can’t break the rules without changing who you are. Intentionally targeting an American citizen, even if he is an extremist, crosses a line I do not believe it is in our best interest to cross.

And even if your guy is in charge and you really believe his intentions are good and that he means no harm, you have to remember he’s not always going to be there; the rules he changes he changes for the future when somebody you don’t like may be sitting in his seat who will then be able to use those tools, and expand on them, for purposes you never agreed with.

125. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

lol. I’m responding to posts in the future. That was for 124!

126. Red Dead Ryan - September 26, 2010

125

President Obama tried to give terror suspects some Miranda rights. He was met with furious opposition. He wanted to have them tried in a court of law. Again, it was met with anger. The planned shutdown of Guantanamo Bay isn’t going to happen, despite (alleged) human rights abuses occurring there. Republicans have benefitted politically from this, with a number of Democrats joining them in support against the President. Poll after poll shows Americans are overwhelmingly against Obama’s ideals. In this day and age, (and not just in the U.S by the way) a terror suspect is considered guilty until proven innocent. These methods don’t help in the fight against extremism, in fact, it does the opposite by providing a tool for recruitment of Muslim radicals.

It seems you are, unfortunately, a part of a minority who does not want to see the ideals of your country thrown away by politicians who promise security.

127. Red Dead Ryan - September 26, 2010

125

President Obama tried to give terror suspects some Miranda rights. He was met with furious opposition. He wanted to have them tried in a court of law. Again, it was met with anger. The planned shutdown of Guantanamo Bay isn’t going to happen, despite (alleged) human rights abuses occurring there. Republicans have benefitted politically from this, with a number of Democrats joining them in support against the President. Poll after poll shows Americans are overwhelmingly against Obama’s ideals. In this day and age, (and not just in the U.S by the way) a terror suspect is considered guilty until proven innocent. These methods don’t help in the fight against extremism, in fact, it does the opposite by providing a tool for recruitment of Muslim radicals.

It seems you are, unfortunately, a part of a minority who does not want to see the ideals of your country thrown away by politicians who promise security.

128. Red Dead Ryan - September 26, 2010

OOPS!

DAMN DOUBLE POSTS!!!

129. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#124

Yes, I agree. At least we could talk to the Soviets. We could make deals. They didn’t want to go to nuclear war as much as we did. The Cuban Missile Crisis proved that. We removed our missiles from Turkey; they removed theirs from Cuba. Even-Steven and no mushroom clouds. :)

But I don’t see the same kind of reasonable deals coming from Al Queda or (possibly) Iran. If I’m understanding this correctly, they want Israel wiped off the map and all Western influences out of the Middle East. Not exactly reasonable on their part….

#125

“Intentionally targeting an American citizen, even if he is an extremist, crosses a line I do not believe it is in our best interest to cross.”

To which targeted American citizen are you referring?

130. Vultan - September 26, 2010

Correction: They didn’t want to go to nuclear war as much as we DIDN’T.

131. Boborci - September 26, 2010

I see the media works quite well.

132. Harry Ballz - September 26, 2010

132

As Uhura once asked, “now, what is THAT supposed to mean?”

133. Vultan - September 26, 2010

Well, to Mr. Orci and all those who think today’s terrorist threats aren’t as dangerous as the big bad Sovet Union, I’d just like to remind you of Gavrilo Princip’s assassination of Archduke Ferdinand of Austria. Of course, the geopolitical climate is very different today than it was in 1914, but I’m just pointing out that one radical can indeed spark a much larger, global conflict.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail if history repeats itself (or “rhymes” as Mark Twain said). See the story of Vasili Arkhipov and the Soviet submarine B-59 for a perfect example. Talk about a close call!

134. Boborci - September 26, 2010

128. Even if what you have written here were true (which I dispute), we are supposedly lucky enough to live in a country where a its founding document makes it irrelevant ho is in the minority. Certain principles are the law ofnthe land. The ole dads did this precisely to guard against “factionalism.”

Now, you may argue that the ole document is irrelevant. That is at least an intellectually consistent position.

135. Boborci - September 26, 2010

134. Sure, if u believe that his assassination actually caused world war one. I think even mainstream sources would dispute this simplification.

136. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

@130: Adam Gadahn is one. Anwar al-Awlaki is another. A drone spots either one of those Americans, and it’s one, two, Kobyashi Maru.

Or, if you prefer, follow Nat Hentoff; he’s been on the drones problem:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=11259

137. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#136

No, I wasn’t saying that his assassination was the sole reason for the war. Nationalism, imperialism, and general ignorance and sabre-rattling were the main reasons. I was only pointing out that a radical can spark a larger conflict given the right conditions.

If you’re looking for a simplification that some mainstream sources would dispute, here you go:

“Very specific limits? I like that. Limitiing free speech, very specific. Unlawful search and seizure, very specific. Limiting right to tiral by jury, very specific. Allowing the assassination of us citizens, also very specific. Allowing torture, very specific. Undeclared wars, very specific. Aside from thses things, you are right, very limited!”

I don’t live in California, but I had no idea things had become so bad out there! ;)

138. Boborci - September 26, 2010

138. Everything I cited is part of the public record.

139. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#137

And the deaths of either of those so-called men would be tragic how?
Not sure I could show sympathy towards those who preach hate and advocate the abuse of women, but I certainly admire your humanity!

140. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

@136: I would not argue that the Constitution is irrelevant until something much better comes along. So far we have groups of people who are too impatient to follow it, or who don’t believe they can have their way by following it, so they call it irrelevant, or worse, who praise it even as they ignore it.

1868. The Fort Laramie Treaty between the United States and the Lakota nation gave the Lakota people a huge expanse of western land including the sacred Paha Sapa (Black Hills) of South Dakota. But when white immigrants kept infringing on sovereign Lakota land and found gold in them thar hills, the US Gov’t promptly ignored the Constitution and took the land by force from the Lakota people.

The Supreme Court eventually ruled in their favor and tried to bribe the Lakota with 15 million dollars. They did not accept.

Then there’s the Trail of Tears.

So, violating the Constitution is not new. Nor is the courage of its true representatives, like those Lakota who would not be bought off, and those Cherokee who marched to their deaths in the hope of being free.

141. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#139

Yes, just blown completely out of proportion to make your point. Ever consider a career in politics?

142. Boborci - September 26, 2010

How does one blow the illegal assassination of US citizens out of proportion? I suppose merely by pointing it out?

143. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

137: “And the deaths of either of those so-called men would be tragic how?”

By trashing our Constitution which prohibits us from doing that type of thing. I’m not a fan of either of those men. I think the earth would be better off without theocratic extremists who think god wants them to cut people’s heads off and make women wear halloween costumes for every moment of their public existence. But we should not alter our governing principles out of some momentary blaze of passion.

144. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#143
#144

Sorry, I don’t see how the killing of enemy combatants can be considered illegal, even if they are American citizens. If you’re going to side against the United States, take up arms against it, aid in the killing of civilians, then eventually you’re going to end up as a stain on the desert floor. It’s as simple as that.

I’m pretty sure a case could be made for the thousands of American citizens killed in the Civil War on the Confederate side or the KKK members who conspired against the FBI—but I’m sure as hell not going to make it!

Get real, guys.

145. Boborci - September 26, 2010

145. Despite my disagreement and disappointment with your “facts” and positions, your fellow citizens here and elsewhere will continue to try and save us all from yourselves.

146. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

145: “If you’re going to side against the United States, take up arms against it, aid in the killing of civilians, then eventually you’re going to end up as a stain on the desert floor. It’s as simple as that.”

Yes, if an American citizen betrays his country and is killed in battle against his countrymen, his identity unknown to them, that’s too bad. In the fog of war that may well happen.

But that’s a totally different scenario from the chief executive playing judge, jury, and executioner, specifically to target an American citizen. THAT is unconstitutional.

It may well be Adam Gadahn one day, and Tea party activists the next. The point is the future is arbitrary when we are a nation of people practicing favoritism and not laws. And that IS real. I understand that it is hard to do when you are angry. Believe me. I understand. But it is the high ground. And I think it is the only hope we have.

147. Dr. Image - September 26, 2010

Meanwhile… Shat can be funny as hell, but that show is so badly written it’s pathetic. It truly IS shit.
“When in doubt, write potty jokes.”
That seems to be their mantra.

148. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

Unfortunately there’s no national forum for debate that includes EVERYbody at the table, so people feel frustrated and disenfranchised.

I think it’s hilarious when Fox News is attacked, for example, when what poor Juan Williams has to endure is what has been happening to George Will for decades. That doesn’t make me a Juan Williams, George Will, or Fox News fan, although I know some people’s first reaction will be to cast me as such. It just makes me honest.

Factional websites and the kiddie news media is what we have. We don’t have a roundtable discussion where different ideas face off in front of the American people.

You won’t see Peter Schiff (who accurately forecast the housing implosion) debate Paul Krugman (who saw nothing), even though we would ALL benefit from seeing it, because that would make Krugman look less omniscient, and he’s one of the go-to guys for economic wisdom these days. But Krugman isn’t the least bit interested in looking less than absolutely sure of what he’s talking about, or in losing a point to someone who didn’t get a Nobel prize.

So, we get to be angry and feel powerless rather than to think about what we’ve heard and to make decisions on that basis. We end up being poorly informed and base our decisions on the emotions stirred up by political speeches and deceptive advertisements — from both Republicans and Democrats, the only two plausible choices we’ve had which, I wonder how many have noticed, is only ONE choice more than a dictatorship has.

149. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#146

Hey, keep on keeping on. And live long and prosper. :)

#147

Right, right. I totally understand your position, but so far Obama has only been putting “hits” on terrorists in the field. If he ordered an airstrike on a Tea Party convention, somehow I don’t think that would help his poll numbers. The division between political activists and terrorists is pretty clear—in particular the lack of explosions at political rallies. ;)

And if the men you cited as an example of targeted Americans were really Americans, shouldn’t they be about “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” and not death, abusing women and the pursuit to kill as many innocent people as possible? Just a thought.

150. Tom1701 - September 26, 2010

H-5-0 should have been a straight launch. All it did was use names from a classic(?) TV show into brand new concept. There was no point in attaching the names.
Putting that aside it was well done.

151. Oregon Trek Geek - September 26, 2010

I love the Shat, and was a fan of the Shit My Dad Says web phenom from early on. I was even in favor of the idea to have a TV comedy based on it.

BUT from day one I had misgivings about casting Shatner. He’s just miscast here. It’s hard to say why. I was thinking Stacey Keach for the role early on. Someone who’s comedy is a little meaner, a little more crotchety… Shatner is just a little too…..hmmm…… well when you think of mean, old, but funny grumpy old Dads, I just don’t think Shatner.

I should disclose that I have not seen the show. I’ve seen clips that for me support my position.

152. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - September 26, 2010

Whoa. I leave for a while and a constitutional donnybrook break out! Sorry I missed it.

153. Oregon Trek Geek - September 26, 2010

153 – lol, I must admit that I didn’t read enough comments to know that a political shatstorm had broken out. Now my admittedly on-topic post seems a wee bit… odd at this point.

154. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

@150: No, I don’t think Obama is going to drone strike a tea party convention. My point is that getting back rights that you cede because you’re angry is a difficult proposition, and someday some really bad people may take office who suddenly have all these neat tools to use against us.

And the men I mentioned ARE American citizens. What they believe and how they feel about America is another matter.

@153: lol. John Boyd even got mentioned. If Bob Orci doesn’t know who Jon Boyd is, you sure can’t tell by the way he wrote Captain Kirk.

155. Disinvited - September 26, 2010

#150.

As I recall, the Martial Law that was decreed by executive order, at the beginning of the U.S. entry into WWII, wasn’t fully rescinded until the Carter Administration. It and the Vietnam War were definitely factors in Nixon’s executive arrogance.

If you know your U.S. history, explosions at political rallies almost qualify as being as American as apple pie.

King George definitely looked on American separatists with as much disdain as is being bandied about the current “problem.”

What really puzzles me is why Bob harbors so much animosity towards Steve Allen for having the audacity to grow old and die?

156. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#155

Oh, I think how they feel about America IS the matter. Or else they wouldn’t be fighting to destroy it and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Look, it’s not like these guys are student protestors at Kent State or bloggers with a beef against taxes or healthcare reform. They’re terrorists with a dream to die for their twisted version of Islam. Fortunately for them America has always been country for making dreams come true. :D

157. Vultan - September 26, 2010

Correction: Fortunately for them America has always been A country for making dreams come true. :D

Damn typos…

158. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - September 26, 2010

154

I wondered how Shat’s new show was fomenting all this! But, it seems to stem from the depiction of the Gov of Hawaii playing fast and loose in the new 5 O.

159. Buzz Cagney - September 26, 2010

Talking of Bill…..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1315486/William-Shatner-kicks-World-Equestrian-Games-style.html

160. MJ - September 26, 2010

The Bob Orci impostor said:”Obama has extended the technical state of emergency that Bush decreed after 911. If u follow such things, u know this means that the constitution has been suspended for the last decade or so”

Good, now we know that you are really not Bob Orci, as he would not be so foolish as to run his mouth with this stuff in a public forum that is so far left it may be right.

Why don’t you start using a real handle and stop pretending that you are Mr. Orci? It is not really funny anymore. FYI, it is “you,” not “u”.

161. dmduncan - September 26, 2010

@157: You arrest them, charge them with sedition, and you try them in court. Like it or not they are still citizens and have the rights of such. The government is not allowed to summarily explode its citizens.

162. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#162

It’s kinda hard to slap the cuffs on somebody from a predator drone or serve a warrant in a cave in Afghanistan, but I do agree that if the ground troops capture them they should be tried in court. But you have to catch the fanatics first….

163. Red Dead Ryan - September 26, 2010

135

Sorry for my ignorance Bob :-). I live in Canada, where our politicians also try to circumvent our own Constitution by torturing terrorism suspects elsewhere or sneaking in new taxes while also discriminating against native peoples.

I do watch a lot of American programming such as CNN and try to get my news from as many sources as possible. It just seems to me that right now America is a highly divided society where both parties would no doubt continue to circumvent the Constitution and laws to satisfy their own agendas. Things like giving the CIA the power to torture Al Qaeda operatives. Though I do realize that anyone who isn’t a U.S citizen isn’t entiltled (legally) to Miranda rights upon arrest, the Bush administration clearly rewrote some laws to allow for torture and deprivation to be used.

Your Constitution is relevant to you and the majority of American civilians obviously. But for today’s politicians, and those who preceded them the past couple of decades, the Constitution is an obstruction and/or tool for their own agendas. And in some cases, its been ignored entirely. Now, I’m not too familiar with the U.S Constitution, but there is a thing called seperation of church and state. However, a large segment of the Republican Party’s base are the Evangelical right wing Christians who have influenced government policy on abortion and stem cell research for decades. In return, those groups may be (I’m not absolutely certain, but am pretty sure) getting taxpayer money to fund church building and other things.

Also, the NRA is able to pay politicians to not support any gun control legislation. I’m also pretty certain that there are stipulations against lobbyism and conflict of interest.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I am not an expert by any means, but I’m telling you what I have read/heard about. It seems to me that there is a “factionalism” going on in your country. The rich fat cats on Wall Street are able to buy the kind of influence that people like you cannot vote for or against. Its special interest groups who are able to get things from politicians, while people on Main Street suffer job losses as well as foreclosures.

And politicians do have the ability to sweep those who disagree with them into the minority. They do it through the media, like the major news networks, as well as claiming any opposition to whichever agenda (Iraq war, keeping health care privatized) is on the table as being “un-American”, which has a fascist undertone to it. Gays are not allowed to serve openly in the military and Muslims are facing increasing and unfair scrutiny in the wake of the Ground Zero mosque debate and the cancelled Quran burning event.

164. Red Dead Ryan - September 26, 2010

162 and 163

Preferrably, it would be best if Osama Bin Laden was to be captured alive.
It would be a bigger blow to Al Qaeda terrorists and Taliban fighters to witness a demoralizing surrender/capture of a man who has sent others to die on 9/11 and during suicide bombings in Afghanistan, Iraq and other places around the world. If Bin Laden is killed in an airstrike or in a battle, his legend will only grow and he’d be a martyr.

But to be honest, I don’t see either happening. The chances to get Bin Laden have diminished. Bill Clinton and George W. Bush both had the opportunities to get him dead or alive, but squandered it through partisan bickering and political beauracracy.

165. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#164

I am American and you pretty much nailed it on every issue… except for churches getting government funds. It is possible, but there are watchdog groups that would be reporting (loudly) on the subject. There are many on both the left and the right who want a firm division between church and state (myself included). It’s never a good thing to mix religion with government.

Also, the Evangelical segment of the Republican Party isn’t quite as powerful as it used to be, being replaced with a more libertarian-minded group—the so-called Tea Party. And even they aren’t exclusively Republican; some voted for Obama. But probably the most under-reported news story going on right now is the growing segment of voters who identify themselves as neither Republican nor Democrat (myself included). So, hopefully someday soon the independents will take back the country, with the I’s outnumbering the R’s and D’s… maybe…

Well, stranger things have happened. :)

166. Vultan - September 26, 2010

#165

Agreed… but, yes, not very likely at this point. That is, if he already hasn’t died….

167. Red Dead Ryan - September 26, 2010

166

A third party? Ironically, the only thing Republicans and Democrats in Washington can agree on is their mutual opposition to the idea of a third party.

As for the watchdog groups, its quite possible (and highly probable, I imagine) that many of them don’t have the power and money, or do but are rife with corruption and incompetence.

The Tea Party movement claims to be independent, but I suspect most are Republicans. They are certainly conservative and libertarian. There wouldn’t be too many liberals I would imagine. A few conservative Dems, probably, though.

I pondered whether or not churches get tax money because apparently several Muslim groups have gotten funding for mosque-building from states and the feds.

Up here in Canada, we have four main parties: Bloc Quebecois (a nutty seperatist group, why they qualify as a federal party I don’t know but it sure is ironic!) the Conservatives, the New Democrats and the Liberals.

The latter three all claim to be different, but are more like three sides of the same coin. The Liberals and Conservatives being the “faces” while the NDP is the edge that goes around the coin. :-)

We have a loonie, a twoonie and soon I’m sure we’ll have a thr-oonie! (three dollar coin)

168. Harry Ballz - September 26, 2010

Yes, Ryan, but at least we have tasty beer!

169. Red Dead Ryan - September 26, 2010

Hi Harry!

We also have a football league…..the CFL…where the old slogan used to tell us “Our Balls Are Bigger!” Remember that, Harry?

I guess in your case, its an everyday reminder!

170. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

That’s been my motto since high school!

171. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#168

A lot of the watchdog groups are independent and privately funded (sometimes from organizations abroad), many with anti-religious elements in them—so it wouldn’t be easy to pay them off! If the government were actively funding churches, it would be a pretty big scandal to say the least.

I don’t know how things are in Canada, but religious organizations in the US are generally tax exempt and can make deductions from the charitable work they do. So, I suppose you could say that is a form of government support, but it’s open to any and all legitimate religions.

Oh, and the so-called Ground Zero Mosque is privately funded to the best of my knowledge. Obama and Mayor Bloomberg have thrown their support behind the project, reaffirming the freedom of religion in the First Amendment, but that’s about the most support they’re probably going to get from the Feds.

Anyway, the mosque controversy is sadly nothing new in the US. There’s a long history of religious intolerance going all the way back to the Revolution—anti-Catholicism, anti-Semitism, anti-Mormons (Joseph Smith was tarred and feathered and later murdered by a mob) and it’ll probably keep going and going as long as there are nutjob reactionaries out there….

172. skyjedi - September 27, 2010

Wasn’t there a movie with Angelina Jolie and Brad pitt that was like undercovers, but instead had white actors instead of black folk. LOL.

Just like how many versions of La Femme Nikita can someone have, even to the point of an alleged ripoff like Alias.

173. skyjedi - September 27, 2010

I mean no disrespect but do jj or his writers have a single new idea, i found the last trek flick to be nothing but a fast and flashy graphics rehash of both star wars and star trek thrown in a blender set to warp 9.

174. captain_neill - September 27, 2010

174

I agree with you I don’t find anything original in JJ either. He just blends things together.

I have been informed Undercovers is basically Mr and Mrs meets Mission Impossible.

It amazes why he makes so much money.

175. P Technobabble - September 27, 2010

I wouldn’t throw tomatoes at Abrams, since every exec, every producer, every writer does the same thing. That’s why a pitch to a company may describe the film as “Star Trek meets Lost In Space,” or “Die Hard meets The Terminator,” and it goes on. Some say there is nothing really “new.” I believe deas, like everything else, gets stored in the brain, mixed together, stirred up, and then feelings drive those ideas in certain ways. “Forbidden Planet” is considered to be one of the finest sci-fi movies of all-time, considered by some to be Gene Roddenberry’s inspiration for Star Trek. And this film was based on Shakespeare’s “The Tempest.” Obviously, my point is that it is unfair to point a finger at Abrams for doing something that is, apparently, the same thing all those people do. I think you are just picking on Abrams cos you didn’t like Trek, but you should be able to see how there are so many other tv shows and films that exhibit similarities to other shows or films.

176. P Technobabble - September 27, 2010

177
That’s “ideas…”
sincerely, PT, champyun uv propper speling

177. Brett Campbell - September 27, 2010

174 – Best, most accurate mini-review of Trek ’09 that I’ve read yet.

178. gingerly - September 27, 2010

Dude. I was routing for UnderCovers because I know how Hollywood thinks. They’ll be all “Obviously this show’s demo isn’t large enough, not enough cross-over potential blah, blah…BACK TO ALL-WHITE LEAD SHOWS! w/ TOKEN KILLABLE MINORITY TO ADD ‘DIVERSITY’ HERE AND THERE! *cough*heroes*cough*”

But yeah, it’s crap. It has nothing to do with the color of the stars, though Hollywood will blame it on that and adjust accordingly.

*huffs bitterly*

Heck, Castle scored excellent ratings and that show is just as crappy. I believe it survives on older people who miss Murder She Wrote and Nathan Fillion fans.

179. Dr. Image - September 27, 2010

#172- The Ground Zero Mosque controversy is NOT about religious intolerance, it’s about sensitivity and respect.
(Swore I wouldn’t get into this, but oh well…)

180. Boborci - September 27, 2010

151. So, in other words, except for the title, you found the show totally original! Thanks!

181. Boborci - September 27, 2010

164. If I am not mistaken, Miranda applies to anyone on our soil.

182. Buzz Cagney - September 27, 2010

I’m so glad I’m English. We just do what we are bloody well told to do and are just happy to get the attention!
You Americans and your Freedom this and Constitution that!
I love’s ya!
Toodle pip.

183. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

181 Boborci

Oh, too cute, by half! :>)

184. Boborci - September 27, 2010

178 and 174.

Since Star Trek came first, and everything you claim was ripped from Star Wars was actually in Trek first, then the review, really, should be, “it was Star Trek.”

185. Boborci - September 27, 2010

183. Love “toodle pip!” gonna use that!

186. Buzz Cagney - September 27, 2010

Would probably be best coming from Scotty, Bob! From Kirk it’ll just sound like he’s now batting for the other team!

187. Disinvited - September 27, 2010

#182.

With exception for those with diplomatic immunity for the obvious reason..

188. Boborci - September 27, 2010

180. The ground zero mosque is neither a mosque, nor is it at ground zero. Also, research who is funding it!

189. Daoud - September 27, 2010

@151 There are quite a few parallels in the characters from classic H5O to nuH5O though….

But you make a strong point, in that instead of a “re-imagining”, perhaps a spinoff sequel like “PUERTO RICO NOT-YET-FIVE-UNO” could be interesting! Or the Ubetchan version “ALASKA FOUR-NINER” featuring a mama grizzly with a shotgun, and her wild party-on teenagers.

190. Daoud - September 27, 2010

@189 I like to call it the “Park 51 Community Center”. More descriptive, and accurate. It is at 51 Park. It won’t be Mecca: Non-Muslims will be integrally involved, and invited inside the doors. Rauf was a bit tone-deaf at first to a lot of the discussion, but over the past few days he’s really started to understand the rational points of some of the rational critics. He’s addressing it all pretty well now.

And you’re right about funding. That SoHo properties is a key backer is good. That the nephew of the secretary of the Arab League is involved is good. These are mainstream Muslims involved. That Rauf wants to board to be multi-religious and multi-ethnic is a great move. A shame it took him so long though!

So, how do we take how initial human reactions are often bigoted, ignorant, but also protective and defensive… and show that with education and the light of day, and rational compromise between rational points of view is exactly the path to take?

You know, the Klingons have a valid grudge against the Romulans of the future that they didn’t have in the original timeline. Can the UFP stand in for declining Western civilization, and the Klingon Empire stand in for the Islamic World? Are the Romulans the Hindu Indian world? So much that can be carried over for Star Trek 2012.

As to H5O, just keep writing shoreside scenes for Grace Park’s character that require bikinis. That will bring peace to the world. :)

191. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

Funny, when I look at Grace Park in a bikini the last thing I feel is peaceful!

192. dmduncan - September 27, 2010

163: “It’s kinda hard to slap the cuffs on somebody from a predator drone or serve a warrant in a cave in Afghanistan, but I do agree that if the ground troops capture them they should be tried in court. But you have to catch the fanatics first….”

And that’s what it means to honor your Constitution. Roman Polanski was wanted by the Law in LA for a long time, but he was out of reach. That’s just the way of it sometimes.

168: “The Tea Party movement claims to be independent, but I suspect most are Republicans.”

Some vote Republican because that’s the nearest thing to some important issues, but Ron Paul is also a Republican. A Libertarian Republican who speaks the truth that so many establishment Republicans don’t want to hear — the blowback we experience as a result of our interventionist foreign policy, for example — that they call him crazy or “isolationist,” which is a gross misrepresentation. He’s not crazy. He’s sane. Calling someone crazy is the first step you take to discredit him so other people don’t listen.

191: “So, how do we take how initial human reactions are often bigoted, ignorant, but also protective and defensive… and show that with education and the light of day, and rational compromise between rational points of view is exactly the path to take?”

Follow the example of ST6. My personal fave.

193. gingerly - September 27, 2010

@180

If that’s the case then we should tear down good chunk of the religious sites on this country’s soil in general, as they’ve “disrespected” the many Indigenous burial grounds and sites of genocide that have far exceeded the numbers killed on 9/11.

194. Hugh Hoyland - September 27, 2010

I’ll chime in on this without getting to political. Im an independent leaning towards Libertarian in some ways. There are and have been some very disturbing trends happening with the government over quite a few decades, mostly dealing with snooping and curtailing open communication. Just next year they want to pass a bill where they can check every single action anyone does on the internet (They do this already btw, this is just a rubber stamp for it) of course in the name of stoping crime. Its actions like this and many others that have people worried, and they should be. Its not democrats and republicans behind it, its both!

195. dmduncan - September 27, 2010

We seem headed toward some kind of technocratic singularity. I say “seem” because there’s the possibility we’ll experience some “black swan” event that drastically alters the anticipated outcome.

196. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

181

I’m pretty sure the Patriot Act allows law enforcement officials to deny terror suspects (American and non-American citizens) their Miranda rights or at least they can withold lawyers from defending the suspect.

I say this because there was talk about how the Times Square would-be bomber will be tried, whether to treat him as any other criminal suspect or to put him before a military tribunal, which is what the government plans to do with the 9/11 suspects.

Also, Bob, the Islamic center that is being planned near Ground Zero will contain a mosque. I believe the governor of New York offered to pay for the construction if the Imam moved it outside of Lower Manhattan.

197. Andy Patterson - September 27, 2010

Wow, after teaching a whole long day I want to talk Star Trek. When did we become so political here?

198. dmduncan - September 27, 2010

197: “When did we become so political here?”

Since Gene Roddenberry wrote The Omega Glory.

199. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#198

Good one! :D

200. Boborci - September 27, 2010

195. Nice.

201. Boborci - September 27, 2010

196. Yes, the patriot act indeed is used to DENY INVIOLABLE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

As for your second point, how come you don’t call a hospital a church instead? After all, there’s a chapel inside. Again, not a mosque, and not on ground zero. A non issue blown into a fake story to avoid actually discussing anything of significance.

202. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#201

Wow, Bob, we finally agree about something! Yes, the mosque story has been blown out of proportion. It’s not like they’re setting up a terrorist training camp across the street from the memorial; these are moderate Muslims. And it’s their money; they can build anything they want there that the zoning laws allow.

“Freedom, freedom, freedom—Oy!”

203. MJ - September 27, 2010

You all should really take your “Crossfire” debate somewhere else…this is not relevant to either this article or this site.

204. Boborci - September 27, 2010

203. Oh sure it is! This started because someone referring to 5-O said police with immunity from the constitution was an insult to their intelligence since that can’t happen in the US.

205. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

201

You’re splitting hairs. An Islamic center almost always contains a mosque, hence “Islamic”, while a hospital doesn’t necessarily contain a church, at least not ones I’ve been to. The Imam who bought the property where he intends to build his center has said that a mosque will be included.

But you are right about the Islamic center not being on Ground Zero. But it is two blocks away. And a lot of people who lost loved ones in the destruction of the World Trade Center feel that it is a slap in the face to build a thirteen story tall Islamic center near the site where (radical) Muslims flew airliners into the buildings and killed over two thousand people, including sixty innocent Muslims. While the Imam has the legal right to build his center near the site, most Americans, and more specifically, the vast majority of New Yorkers oppose it because they feel the Imam is imposing his religious activities in a sensitive area. I do know that there is a mosque already nearby, but that was there well before 9/11, and thus no one has a problem with it. Its the way it is.

The Imam does have a legal right to build his center wherever he wants, including near the WTC site. But the majority of folks who lost loved ones are against it for entirely valid reasons. Are you saying those people are wrong?

Bottom line, just because you have the legal right to do something, doesn’t make it a good idea, especially when people feel that it is being imposed on them. And by the way, I haven’t blown anything out of proportion. I’m stating the facts. And the facts are this Islamic center is not wanted near Ground Zero by many people who are well justified in their opposition to it. It is rather arrogant of you to say this is blown out of proportion when (presumably) none of your friends or family died there.
It is a senistive topic for a lot of people.

In my opinion, it would be nice for the Islamic center to be built there as an act of goodwill and bridge building. It would be a great display of tolerance and peace. But ultimately, neither my opinion nor yours matters.
The only people whose opinions matter are those who were directly affected by the events of September 11, 2001.

206. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#205

You’ve made some good points there, RDR. I don’t have a problem if a mosque is built a couple of blocks from Ground Zero, but the most prudent and respectful thing for the Imam to do now is make the building a true multicultural and mult-faith center with churches, synagogues and temples under one roof—a sort of UN for religion. I don’t know, but has something like that ever been attempted? Well, regardless… more places of multicultural understanding need to be built. Now more than ever.

207. boborci - September 27, 2010

i seem to be getting accused of splitting hairs a a lot merely for pointing out facts. never been to a hospital without a chapel. and the center is not a mosque.

regardless, since you agree it’s not ground zero, it’a a non issue.

but since you feel our opinions don’t matter (which i disagree with), and only the victims’ families matter, enjoy this:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=7629434

now for the really complicated part, what do u make of this?

http://www.observer.com/2010/politics/untangling-new-intrigue-behind-ground-zero-mosque

208. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

206

I believe the Imam has rejected the notion of a multi-cultural interfaith center. I could be wrong of course, but the feeling I get from reading and hearing about the man (from multiple news sources) is that he is a stubborn man. Sometimes, to get what you want, you have to compromise a little. I don’t see that coming from him. It is the main reason this debate has blown up.

And instead of mentioning the UN (a hopelessly inept and corrupt organization), you should have said “United Federation Of Planets of religion”. :-)

209. boborci - September 27, 2010

173. correction, i was responding to 173 with Star Wars critique.

210. boborci - September 27, 2010

208. no, this a story because Fox news decided to push it, and none other than general patreus decided to comment on it (an odd anomaly).

211. boborci - September 27, 2010

208. And mosque backers have stated it is open to entire community.

212. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

208, 210

Did I say that everybody who lost loved ones in the WTC oppose the Islamic center? No of course not. I said a lot of them do. Most likely a clear majority. Try reading my statements again.

As for your second link, most of it has nothing to do with this arguement.

You are trying to deflect criticism.

As for FOX pushing this story, you are right. But so has CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, most newspapers and other sources. FOX may have started the debate, but every other network got involved. When the president commented on the debate, he was met with furious opposition.

I see that we won’t be agreeing on this. I have said what I have said, and you have done the same. We both stand firmly by our opinions.

Two things we should agree on:

A) Its a shame how a great tragedy has become politicized and used for election purposes.

B) Its about time we got back to talking Star Trek.

213. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

Yeah! Sing all together…………………

Nobody knows the tribbles I’ve seen……..nobody knows, but…………c’mon, you know the words!

214. boborci - September 27, 2010

“Did I say that everybody who lost loved ones in the WTC oppose the Islamic center? No of course not. I said a lot of them do. Most likely a clear majority. Try reading my statements again.”

You said only victims’ families matter. Some support the mosque. Others don’t. When in doubt, and all things being equal, I figure we should go with the constitution and support people’s rights, no? After all, it is those who oppose the mosque who have politicized it.

“As for your second link, most of it has nothing to do with this argument. You are trying to deflect criticism.”

Really. So the identities of the folks funding the mosque is irrelevant? Ok. You’ll have to explain to me how that works some day.

“As for FOX pushing this story, you are right. But so has CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, most newspapers and other sources. FOX may have started the debate, but every other network got involved.”

So we agree Fox started. Once a top general comments, of course it will be picked up by others.

“Its about time we got back to talking Star Trek.”

Tolerance and adherence to core principles is what Star Trek is all about.

215. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#208

Okay, okay, a United Federation of Planets… for religion. I know the UN is corrupt, but at least it does set a nice example that different countries can come together… and, uh, do nothing. :)

And, yes, it is time to start talking Trek again! But since we are on religion—does anyone else think it’s odd that we never see any outwardly religious humans in the 22nd–24th centuries, aside from Bread and Circuses? Did the horrors of WW3 de-spiritualize everyone on Earth? Or is it simply a matter of mankind “growing up” and becoming a spacefaring species? The Klingons and Bajorans seemed to do well with both technology and spirituality, though.

216. MJ - September 27, 2010

Anthony, any chance of you stepping in and silencing this guy who has been masquerading as Bob Orci and who has been incessantly giving us diatribes of his extremist political views…not that he is not entitled to his opinions, but this is suppose to be a Trek/sf site, and we kinds got his view after about his 10th posting on the topic. This might also get pretty embarrassing for all of us if the real Bob Orci ever logged in and saw this stuff. Thanks!

217. boborci - September 27, 2010

216. sorry to disappoint you. It’s me. Never thought defending the constitution would could be considered embarrassing.

218. boborci - September 27, 2010

nor did I ever imagine defending the constitution would be considered extremist. But you can take “comfort” in the fact that you are not alone:

http://publicintelligence.net/department-of-justice-lists-survivalists-constitutionalists-in-extremism-guide/

219. MJ - September 27, 2010

If Anthony confirms its you, then my apologies. Until then, I have my doubts. :-)

220. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

215

Oh, didn’t you hear, Vultan? Organized religion was outlawed in 2038 during the Great Spiritual Divide. That was when the aliens landed and admitted to being the perpetrators of every visit/appearance/miracle ever witnessed by mankind with us having mistaken it for religious overtures. They apologised for any misunderstanding. I think their exact words were, “My bad! So sad! Don’t be mad!”

A good rule of thumb to go by…………………God isn’t in to parlour tricks!

221. MJ - September 27, 2010

Not going to take the bait…I will not engage on extended political debates on this site, and I do not accept you labeling me as necessarily disagreeing with you.

222. boborci - September 27, 2010

221. Thanks for taking a strong clear position, then.

223. MJ - September 27, 2010

#222 — well here is one opinion for the real Bob Orci, who may or may not be you — I loved Star Trek 09…nice job (well done real BO)!!!

224. boborci - September 27, 2010

223. Thank you! And thanks for watching it!

225. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

I can prove if this is the REAL Bob Orci. Not to pull a Spock, but I know which part of Toronto he grew up in (because he told me once)….so, where was it?

(cue the theme to Jeopardy)

226. MJ - September 27, 2010

somebody may be doing an extended web search right now…LOL

227. MJ - September 27, 2010

BUSTED ???

228. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

MJ, I don’t think it will show on his bio!

229. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

214

‘You said only victims’ families matter. Some support the mosque. Others don’t. When in doubt, and all things being equal, I figure we should go with the constitution and support people’s rights, no? After all, it is those who oppose the mosque who have politicized it.”

Firstly, you’re now calling the center a mosque? Despite previously insisting that it isn’t? (post #188). Interesting.

Second, one could argue, that when the constitution was writtten, and assuming that it hadn’t been amended since then, that the rights to building religious buildings only applies to churches and synagogues. After all, your country was founded on Christian and Jewish principles.
Muslims weren’t part of the equation back in the late 18th century. Not many of them, anyway. And as I said earlier, just because one has the right to do something, doesn’t mean that he should. You may be right in that the Imam’s plans for his Islamic center are constitutionally protected, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t or couldn’t be debated without infringing on rights.

Thirdly,

It’s not only those who oppose the mosque that have politicized it. President Obama has agreed to the mosque without acknowledging the concerns of 9/11 survivors and families of the victims. Then he changed his tune the next day and decided that putting the mosque near ground zero wasn’t a good idea. He was concerned about his and his party’s poll numbers.

“Really. So the identities of the folks funding the mosque is irrelevant? Ok. You’ll have to explain to me how that works some day.”

I will explain it to you right now. I never said the identities of the folks funding the mosque is irrelevant. You brought that into the equation by posting the link. But now that you mention it, it is irrelevant, unless it turns out that Hezbollah, Hamas, or Al Queda are the donors. My argument was never about the funding.

“Tolerance and adherence to core principles is what Star Trek is all about.”

Yes it is. And so is respecting both sides of any debate. And sometimes, its best to put aside constitutional concerns in exchange for sensitivity and plain old common sense. The Imam has refused to compromise, and so people have criticized him. And rightfully so.

230. MJ - September 27, 2010

#228. Good catch Harry. He is conveniently not responding now, so I think you called his bluff. I was having a hard time believing that someone that much in the public eye would so freely be spouting his political opinions on a web site…just not a good business practice, regardless of how much they believe in any political philosophy…look at both extremes, Susan Sarandon and Mel Gibson, and see what happens when you go public with this kind of stuff when you are in the public eye.

231. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

MJ, I think we have our answer. About 2 years ago the real Orci and I were conversing on one of these threads late one night and he imtimated where he grew up while living in Toronto. Nice litmus test, eh?

Impostor be gone!

232. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#220

Sorry, Harry, I didn’t hear about that. But I did read their book, “How to Cook For Forty Humans.”

233. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

#232

Oh, a Simpsons fan, eh, Vultan? I love the one where Homer goes back in time and keeps changing things!

234. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#230

And sorry to burst your bubble, MJ, but it is indeed Bob Orci on this board. Anthony has confirmed this on several occasions, and Bob seems to be a political person. They are fringe politics (no pun intended), but they are his views.

235. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

I’m pretty sure it is Bob Orci. The way he responds to posts and how he expresses them are consistent with past threads.

But of course I could be wrong. It could very well be an imposter. I mean, Anthony seems to have dropped off the face of the internet. He usually cracks down on politicking and closes threads. But he didn’t this time.

I hope he’s alright. I really mean that.

236. boborci - September 27, 2010

“Firstly, you’re now calling the center a mosque? Despite previously insisting that it isn’t? (post #188). Interesting.”

Mainstream media works well. I have to consciously fight it, which leads to slips like above. I shoulda’ called it the “cultural center.”The argument above does not take issue with Mosque. It takes the position i was arguing against, that even if it is a mosque, if only victim’s families matter, then we are no closer to clarity. I know you are smart enough not to read into it any more than that — no more than you would say that the pentagon was hit by a missile simply because Rumsfeld said so in a speech.

“Second, one could argue, that when the constitution was writtten, and assuming that it hadn’t been amended since then, that the rights to building religious buildings only applies to churches and synagogues. After all, your country was founded on Christian and Jewish principles.
Muslims weren’t part of the equation back in the late 18th century. Not many of them, anyway. And as I said earlier, just because one has the right to do something, doesn’t mean that he should. You may be right in that the Imam’s plans for his Islamic center are constitutionally protected, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t or couldn’t be debated without infringing on rights.”

When you get to grade school, you’ll find out that our country was partly founded on religious freedom. The key word being FREEDOM.

“I will explain it to you right now. I never said the identities of the folks funding the mosque is irrelevant. You brought that into the equation by posting the link. But now that you mention it, it is irrelevant, unless it turns out that Hezbollah, Hamas, or Al Queda are the donors. My argument was never about the funding.”

Missing the point completely. Either the military industrial complex/CIA connections who have been fighting terrorism but who nonetheless funded the “mosque” were totally oblivious to the controversy that would ensue (despite their day jobs involving fighting the terrorist that are being equated with the “mosque”), or they were completely aware of it. The implications of the latter are something I will let you work out.

“Yes it is. And so is respecting both sides of any debate. And sometimes, its best to put aside constitutional concerns in exchange for sensitivity and plain old common sense. The Imam has refused to compromise, and so people have criticized him. And rightfully so.”

I respect both sides of the debate. However, I completely disagree with one side. You are ignoring the points I’ve been making. Religious freedom is not up for a vote. It is the law of the land. Even many of the victims’ families know that.

237. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

Vultan+Ryan

Unless “Orci” has gone to bed for the night he should have answered my qualifying question.

238. boborci - September 27, 2010

35. Red Dead Ryan – September 27, 2010

I think Anthony is graciously indulging me despite his discomfort.

So we’ll take no more advantage of his generosity and leave it where we are. Thanks for the spirited debate!

PS

North York

239. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

233

Ever notice how the two aliens on “The Simpsons” share the names with two “Star Trek: The Original Series” characters? Kodos and Kang. As in Kodos The Executioner and Kang the Klingon. Hmm.

240. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#233

Oh yeah, the “Sound of Thunder” Halloween episode! Great stuff! I think “The Shining”—I mean “Shinning” spoof is in that episode, too.

Mr. Burns: “Hmmm, that’s strange. The blood usually gets off on the second floor.”

241. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

236

The real Bob Orci has never been this outspoken. Speaking of which, I notice you still haven’t answered my question about Toronto………don’t know the answer, do you?

242. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

238

Holy shit!!! It IS Bob Orci! My bad!

243. boborci - September 27, 2010

241. “The real Bob Orci has never been this outspoken.”

Never had a supposedly real world cop show in the air!

244. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

Bob

I hope you can both understand and appreciate why we wanted to determine if it was you posting. One, not to be jerked around and two, to get rid of any impostor using your good name!

(grovel, whimper)

245. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

238

I can at least agree with you on that point, sir!

By the way, I still love “Fringe” and “Star Trek” ’09. Good work! Look forward to more!

(And hopefully everything is falling into place nicely for the sequel!)

246. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#243

Just wondering, but will the plot to your View-Master movie have any connections to MKULTRA? ;)

247. boborci - September 27, 2010

244. No need to apologize, although I would hope any opinion is merely evaluated by its merits, and not based on who is saying it. That is why I debated identifying myself when doubt was cast.

I remember our chat when I was in Toronto shooting Fringe. fun stuff. Wish we were still shooting there!

248. boborci - September 27, 2010

246. Vultan – September 27, 2010

LOL! Not a bad idea! Don’t think Mattel would like that.

249. boborci - September 27, 2010

245. Red Dead Ryan – September 27, 2010

Thanks — hope you will like what we are cooking up. You may read we are doing a lot, but nothing is more important to me than Trek.

250. Robert Bernardo - September 27, 2010

The Hawaii Five-0 pilot was o.k., as was the pilot of Undercovers. For $#!* My Dad Says, I thought that the first half of it was unfunny, but it started picking up in the last half. I especially liked the Dragnet-like staccato dialog bit and Bill Shatner’s final line. For all 3 shows, I’m interested to see if they will improve.

251. Vultan - September 27, 2010

#248

So I guess a connection between Barbie and the Borg is out, too?
Gosh, people really need to lighten up…

:D

252. Red Dead Ryan - September 27, 2010

Bob Orci

Well, as someone who lives in Victoria and has visited Vancouver numerous times, I say “Fringe” fits in well in Vancouver. You get the same atmosphere that “X-Files” and the 90’s “Outer Limits” had. And that is a good thing. Location can be just as much character as it is a place. Its partly why “The X-Files” wasn’t as good when it moved to Los Angeles.
Keep the show in Vancouver. :-)

253. Harry Ballz - September 27, 2010

Bob

I need your advice…..I’m a published author and have won four literary awards, but can’t get anyone to look at a screenplay I’ve written. How do I get someone to at least look at it?

(and, hey, no ego here…..if they tell me to keep my day job, I’ll understand)

254. boborci - September 28, 2010

252. Red Dead Ryan – September 27, 2010

Will do.

And I visited Victoria last year and loved it, too. Love Vancouver, too. But I did spend two years of my childhood in Toronto and I remember it fondly.

255. boborci - September 28, 2010

253. Harry Ballz – September 27, 2010

Hmmm. Do you have the research skills to find out our work address? If you do, send me postcard with your contact info.

256. Red Dead Ryan - September 28, 2010

Bob,

I had no idea you visited my wonderful city. I’ve always (well, at least since you were hired to write Star Trek) wanted to meet you! I once got to chat with Marc Alaimo (the incredible actor who played the wonderfully evil Gul Dukat on “Deep Space Nine”) and got him to sign a photo. A truly wonderful moment. I hope that I get to meet you one day, hopefully in Victoria!

257. Harry Ballz - September 28, 2010

255

Thanks, Bob! I will do that! Much appreciated!

258. Boborci - September 28, 2010

256. Will speak up when I take my wife there sometime next year!

Sleep well guys and gals. This is my favorite site and u are my favorite chatters (or whatever we call ourselves here).

259. Red Dead Ryan - September 28, 2010

Good night Bob! Thanks for the awesome evening/night!

260. Anthony Thompson - September 28, 2010

255.

Yeah, I’m the guy who “started it”. And have sat back and enjoyed the debate. But when all is said and done, it’s the courts (not public officials like a governor) which ultimately have jurisdiction over all of the issues mentioned. But the rules (and roles) have been twisted and bent due to the climate of fear and paranoia which has swept over our country since 9/11. I had hoped that the Obama era would put an end to it but it seems to have exasperated it instead.

261. Anthony Thompson - September 28, 2010

Exacerbated, not exasberated! I’m exasperated! : )

262. MJ - September 28, 2010

244 — ditto, my apologies as well, Bob. I will say though that you surprise me in being so outspoken and so political. Is doesn’t bother me (with the exception that I don’t think this ST site is the proper place for it — see my earlier posts), but I do think you are little naive in posting your politics and philosophies like this given you are in the public eye…these are going to be on the internet forever…but that is your call…your life.

Again my apologies, and I will give your 5-0 show another chance.

263. Daoud - September 28, 2010

Bob, the answer is clear. H5O simply takes place in a very near fringe universe to ours, where the Patriot Act is unfortunately even stronger. :)

Sort of the ‘Sliders’ meets Many Worlds answer: where every television series created creates an alternate universe where that show IS the template for the rest of the universe. Then again, that’s Fringe’s alt-universe too, eh? Just tell me the Munsters are real over there. But seriously, for H5O will you have the characters understand the fine line that they sometimes will cross? Will they feel shame or guilt? Will a particular character be the voice of reason, or the voice of Constitution?

Please, crossover Fringe with H5O in some subtle way. Hmmm, William Bell visits Hawai’i. I’m sure you could get Len Nimoy with an expenses-paid trip to Hawai’i, he could do some photography of Hawai’ian wahine at the same time!

Ahhhh, d’oh on me: of course that was how to get great guest stars for old H5O and for Magnum, p.i.: round trip to Hawai’i. CBS might be glad for some cross-promotion with $tuff My Dad Says: Crossover an original template criminals-have-no-rights cop, T. J. Hooker visits McGarrett… haha.

And tsk tsk on all of you who were doubting Bob, the weight behind our very own pendulum of discussion. Thanks, Bob! The key reason nuH5O is going to be a multi-year success is because of the depth of the people behind it. (If only Shat had you writing his show!)

A last serious comment though: the Miranda rights should apply to all. Geneva says “name, rank, and identification number” are all that are required. All humans should all have the rights endowed by the Creator. Only by due process can anyone be withheld from that birthright.

264. Disinvited - September 28, 2010

#255.

I don’t envy the poor schlub in your office that gets assigned the task of determining which postcard is from the genuine Harry Ballz. But it does amuse me to entertain the thought that whoever it is gets to draw on the investigative techniques and resources displayed in the various projects with which you’ve been associated. I mean, how cool would it be if Harry reports that as he was raising the red flag on his mailbox your associate pulls up and hands him your epistle containing the sought advice?

As cool as that would be, I suppose it would be best to be avoided as it would probably ignite rounds of accusations that you, in reality, are merely an agent of the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement?

265. Disinvited - September 28, 2010

An observation: I, for one, would be very surprised to find that the thousands that died in a group of buildings referred to as the “World” Trade Center, were all American citizens or uniformly of the Christian faith.

266. Harry Ballz - September 28, 2010

#264

Disinvited, I appreciate your concern and interest in Bob’s office determining my true identity. I can assure one and all that my postcard will contain specific information only Anthony could confirm.

Hopefully that should do it because this sure……..”sounds like fun!”

267. Daoud - September 28, 2010

@266 Just send him a poster-sized postcard that he can put up on the wall… then he can have his Ballz to the Walls. :p

268. Buzz Cagney - September 28, 2010

When you hit the big time i hope you stick with us as Bob has, Harry?!
I await your progress with interest. Good luck mister.

I have to say this thread has left me slack jawed in admiration for my fellow Trekkers. Its been fascinating to follow.

269. Disinvited - September 28, 2010

#266.

You are welcome. But I think you miss my main point: his schlub’s going to have to dig through all the posers to find your one true card – that I still don’t envy. It’s a “Can’t see the one true Ballz tree for the forest.” kind of thing. A big part of the reason why I was waxing whimsical about his getting his response to you before you could even close your box for the mailman to p/u.

270. t'cal - September 28, 2010

I enjoyed Bill’s new sitcom. Or is it a shitcom? or perhaps a shatcom??

271. Daoud - September 28, 2010

@270. Well, the script outside of anything Bill had for lines wasn’t very shat-tastic. It’s pretty much $*/+ or miss!

Now, if Henry Winkler could be cast as his next door neighbor, and focus instead on a sort of Odd Neighbor show, it could work. Then again, they should probably just bring in Ted McGinley to seal its fate.

272. P Technobabble - September 28, 2010

This has certainly been one of the most spirited conversations to take place at Trekmovie. And while it wasn’t about Star Trek, I think there is something about the world Star Trek portrayed that is significant in comparison to the world we live in today.
When I was a kid, growing up in the 60’s, I felt a sense of optimism, and had a bright-eyed outlook for the future. We had the Beatles singing “All You Need Is Love,” and a generation of young people who wanted that to be a reality. There was Star Trek and 2001, both portraying technologies that could take us beyond our imaginations. And Star Trek also portrayed a world where human beings — no matter who they were, or where they were from — lived in cooperation, with mutual respect and compassion for each other. And we had the real-life moon landing, which proved what human beings were capable of if they put their minds to it.
Today, I feel no such sense of optimism in the wake of terrorism, endless wars, greed and corruption, and the utter chaos and confusion of the world. It is true the world has always been this way to some degree, but the evolution of technology and weaponry, mass communications and the shrinking of distance, and the ever-increasing population with all its conflict and pettiness, has taken us to the point where annihilation is a distinct possibility. In times past, if one little tribe wiped out another, it was a rather isolated event. Today, if one country wiped out another, the entire world would pay for it.
It seems there is no real Light in the world, no direction that is simply and apparently True, and no indication that human beings are evolving into anything like the crew of the Enterprise. Instead, we live in a world where people are eager to fight over any cause, religion, or ideology whether it is grounded in truth or not.
Can such a world magically transform into a Trek-ian society, or is it going to take something else? Perhaps the intervention of a more advanced alien race? Divine Intervention? I’m sure humanity would consider all suggestions at this point…

273. Harry Ballz - September 28, 2010

268

Buzz, I feel like a cadet who has been tapped on the shoulder for a shot at the “big chair”! :>)

269

Disinvited, I got your point, but was basically trying to warn off any other pretenders to the opportunity. I know, good luck, right?

272

PT, it may take something cataclysmic to happen before the world community wakes up to what’s really important. Which is exactly how the Trek timeline was MEANT to unfold, wasn’t it?

274. rogue_alice - September 28, 2010

Loved H50. Bob, if you are there…great stuff. I chuckled many times during Shat. I think it just needs time to work some kinks out.

275. CmdrR - September 28, 2010

Just reading the middle of this thread and the political thoughts. Bob, you need to write that story. Whether it’s Trek or H50 or something you do under the nom du stilo Signe Quinn, you need to get that passion on paper, mister. You’re pissed. Go vent, young man!

276. dmduncan - September 28, 2010

Look, FOX was created by ABC, CBS, and NBC. It was bound to happen sooner or later. Fox is blowback for skewing things the way the mainstream networks do. Unfortunately, when accuracy is not that important a requirement, lots of people are going to feel disenfranchised with how issues are being portrayed and this is eventually going to cause an equal and opposite REaction. It’ll be too strong because now emotion is involved. It’s become “them” against “us,” trust has been destroyed.

When I see Juan Williams being hammered on Fox, I have an amused sympathy for Juan because I know this has been building up for a long time. I turn on George Stephanopolous on ABC, Sunday AM, and then I see poor George Will being fed to the piranhas in the same way, only George Will has been eating fist sandwiches a lot longer than Juan Williams. So why would you put such a softspoken well mannered man like George Will up against 4 other people who are louder and ruder than he is, but to skew how the audience perceives the George Will point of view? They might as well carve their initials into his butt and ride him around the studio like a donkey.

Whether on Fox or ABC, that is how you mock points of view you don’t want people to take seriously. No serious debate. No serious conversation. And that leads to frustration and feelings of disenfranchisement.

The media, period, is deceptive. The Terry Jones story was also a non story. The Koran has already been burned folks. Lots of times I am sure. But this time they wanted a story, so they turned an obscure pastor with 50 parishioners who otherwise would never have been known into an object of hatred around the world. People rioting in Afghanistan because the media whipped them up about it.

So, you want to know what the truth is? Get two TVs. Put ABC on one and Fox on the other. Then put them next to each other, but leave an empty space between them — because that’s where the truth that you’re not seeing on TV really is.

277. dmduncan - September 28, 2010

Haha, good luck Harry Ballz!

That reminds me too. Bob, I’m going to clean up and send you a ST outline. I don’t expect you to use it, but since it builds on your own ideas in ST.09, I thought you might get a kick out of how I turned one of your own ideas into a bigger story for the sequel.

I would post it, but if I run out of other projects I might turn it into a novella someday. If I don’t, then at least you might have gotten some enjoyment from it and it won’t be a total loss sitting on my hard drive if I never do anything else with it.

278. Harry Ballz - September 28, 2010

275 “You’re pissed. Go vent, young man!”

After sitting at the bar all last night and then telling the bartender I had to take a leak, those are the EXACT same words he muttered at me….funny!

279. Harry Ballz - September 28, 2010

277

Thanks, dmduncan!

280. AJ - September 28, 2010

276:

I agree re: Terry Jones (“in fact, My Liege, that’s how we know the world to be banana-shaped”). Actually, the other one.

Does anyone remember Arizona? The oil spill? How about last year’s “Green” Iran protests?

We’re having non-issues thrust at us like photons when there is a gap in the 24h narrative of ‘big’ stories. And the Internet is overtaking us.

I disagree about sitting with TV’s on all over the room.

Fox News (one side) can distort the geography of New York City, and bring the angry hordes out to protest the construction of a Moslem Community Center, which is actually half a km away from the WTC, and financed by one of FOX’s biggest shareholders, and then it’s all exposed on the Daily Show (the other side), and what did we gain in the argument? Zero.

It’s still worth it to try to read/study some history, and understand what is happening and why.

Commercial TV exists to sell toothpaste, cars, gas, beer and junk food. Go in with an open mind (like “Spectre of the Gun”) and the conservative and liberal bullets won’t hurt you. And you might still learn something.

281. P Technobabble - September 28, 2010

273. Harry

“…PT, it may take something cataclysmic to happen before the world community wakes up to what’s really important. Which is exactly how the Trek timeline was MEANT to unfold, wasn’t it?…”

Unfortunately, I tend to agree as far as something cataclysmic taking place. I suppose we need an asteroid impact, or new ice age, or something along those lines. Star Trek suggested a WWIII and a Eugenics War, which are still conceivable. It would be utterly amazing if Trek was actually a piece of prophecy. Maybe Orci can influence our timeline and write a better unfolding of the future for us all. Whaddya say, Bob?

282. dmduncan - September 28, 2010

280: “Does anyone remember Arizona? The oil spill? How about last year’s ‘Green Iran protests?”

Who can pay attention to that with Lindsay Lohan in crisis?

FOX is just the equal and opposite reaction to the MSM.

Whether on FOX or ABC all the stories have some truth in them, but it’s infected with unconscious bias — and I’m being charitable there with the word “unconscious.”

And it’s nothing new in the world of journalism. I recently read a book called The Plot to Seize the White House, about Marine General Smedley Butler’s foiling of a plot to replace Roosevelt with a “presidential assistant.”

Apparently the NYT was a big business mouthpiece at the time, because it distorted public perception in its reporting, trying to make Butler look inconsequential and the Wall Street Bankers look innocent. FOX is not the devil.

Sometimes they get it right when others get it all wrong. Just ask John Major Jenkins, author of Maya Cosmogenesis 2012, which of the networks treated his views most fairly.

So yeah, it’s convenient to make some one thing the devil; people are doing that with all Muslims too, right? But it’s just not the case. When people have automatic formula answers like that it’s like planting seeds of bigotry in themselves. Me? I’ll listen to anybody until they start talking nonsense, and even when they do, I try to squint to see if something they are saying has some merit.

283. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - September 28, 2010

Good luck with the screenplay, Harry!

Have to say it was entertaining to go back and catch up on all the to and fro. And, whaddya know, boborci ain’t a-scared to voice an opinion! Good for you, I can’t stand fence sitters. That said, I really hope you resist any urge to indulge too much Trek style allegory in the sequel. Even a film I enjoyed, Trek VI, had a few near cringe inducing moments. The Federation President’s line about “this President is not above the law” kicked Nixon 17 years after he resigned. As Steve Martin said in 1978, it was “like making Ike jokes”.

If the current political divide gets the allegorical treatment in Trek 2012, I fear that the passion around the Patriot Act, torture, constitutionality etc, could hang around it’s neck. No need to alienate (no pun intended) half the ticket buying populace to make a point. I think you guys are smarter than that anyway.

284. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - September 28, 2010

Holy cow.

As I re-read my post (you all do it!) I just did a little math about Trek VI. I wrote about TUC referencing Nixon 17 years after he resigned. (1974-1991). Do you realize that TUC was closer in time to the Tricky Dick Administration than we are to TUC? (1991-2010=19 years!!!)

This whole “getting old” thing is getting old.

285. CmdrR - September 28, 2010

There’s only one way to not get any older. And I am NOT in favor of it.

286. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - September 28, 2010

“285. CmdrR – September 28, 2010

There’s only one way to not get any older. And I am NOT in favor of it.”

I agree! To quote the great O’Roarke:

“Age and Guile Beat Youth, Innocence, and a Bad Haircut.”

287. DJT - September 28, 2010

“This whole ‘getting old’ thing is getting old.”

Ain’t that the truth….

288. Harry Ballz - September 28, 2010

283

Thanks, Gene! I appreciate the sentiment!

289. VZX - September 28, 2010

This sort of reminds me of the “Ask Ron Moore” boards on AOL back in 90s. Ron would also have these tangeant conversations that tended to be somewhat political. It’s great that Bob Orci is keeping this tradition going of fans inteacting with one of the creators in Trek.

290. VZX - September 28, 2010

255. Dude: You are going to get a LOT of postcards…

291. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - September 28, 2010

” 283

Thanks, Gene! I appreciate the sentiment!”

I think about the Truffaut quote toward the end of Close Encounters:

“Monsieur Neary, I envy you.”

292. Harry Ballz - September 28, 2010

290

Ah, but only one will have the correct contact information that was requested!

291

Hell, this is such a generous gesture on Bob’s part, I envy me!

293. Boborci - September 28, 2010

281. Sure, no prob. Open to suggestion;)

294. Boborci - September 28, 2010

284. Whoa.

295. Boborci - September 28, 2010

283. Understand what you mean Luckily, the other members of the court are not as “add political adjective” as me.

296. dmduncan - September 28, 2010

FYI for all the Leo Spitzes still reading — put this in your C & C Music Factory files under “Things that make you go hmmm.”

http://www.legitgov.org/minot_afb_nukes_oddities.html

297. dmduncan - September 28, 2010

And for those who like the music playing in the background as they read:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF2ayWcJfxo

298. Red Dead Ryan - September 28, 2010

280

“Does anybody remember Arizona? The oil spill? How about last year’s “Green” Iran protests?”

I sure as hell do. In Canada, our networks actually do cover hard news. Like the flooding on northern Vancouver Island. Crime is reported without sensationalizing it or dumbing it down or making perpetrators into celebrities. Our news broadcasts are not glamourous, nor created for the ignorant/stupid or folks with attention deficit disorder.

Networks like the CBC report on business, current events, and often show documentaries that attempt to shed light on the truth while allowing viewers to think for themselves.

281

“Unfortunately, I tend to agree as far as something cataclysmic taking place”.

As do I, sadly. I’ve believed for a long time that the world is going straight to hell. Violent crime, global warming, and the danger posed to peaceful nations by dangerous countries and terrorists is rising rapidly. We live in a world with few heroes, but many villains. Democratic governments have become mindless, greedy beauracracies, while dangerous countries like Iran attempt to carry out deadly prophecies. Natural disasters are claiming more and more lives. The hope and optimism of the nineties was wiped out on 9/11 and replaced by historic levels of mistrust, disbelief, disenchantment and cynicism. The world is experiencing too much sorrow, pain, horror and not enough joy, love, peace and enlightenment.

Maybe Gene Roddenberry had it right. Maybe the journey to utopia requires us to travel through dystopia first. Perhaps before we can experience heaven, we must endure hell.

Geez, I sound like Frank Black from “Millenium”.

299. MJ - September 28, 2010

280. I ignore TV “news” and read the LA Times and Wall Street Journal EVERY day. Everything is not going to hell in the world — stop watching TV so much and read more and you will soon figure that out. :-)

300. Vultan - September 28, 2010

#298

People in the 30’s and 40’s were probably thinking the same thing, what with the rise of fascism in several countries, global economic turmoil, increased crime and poverty, and a horrific war that understandably looked to be the end of civilization at times. Then, 50 to 70 million lives later, things got better, economies recovered, and eventually a veteran of that war created a little TV series that was, at its core, about hope and overcoming ignorance.

Things may look bad right now, but I believe—because I would go mad if I didn’t choose to believe—that it will get better. Just give it time….

301. MJ - September 28, 2010

Bob Orci. I watched the 2nd 5-0 on my DVR tonight. I am really liking the characters and care about what happens to them. I think the storylines are a bit simplistic so far, but I know it is early on, and I do sense some story arc coming with the tape recording from M’s dad. Anyway, I am going to keep watching…it and The Event are the only two new shows that I am watching…although I can’t help keeping an eye on the Shat train wreck. :-)

302. MJ - September 28, 2010

#300 — the 1970’s were no picnic either — MAD, oil lines, Iran, the economy sliding. I was there and I like today better than the 70’s.

303. Boborci - September 28, 2010

301. Thank u for watching. Really appreciate it. Also hope u noticed some of the debate we had here was part of the show.

304. MJ - September 28, 2010

304. I did, and thought you handled that well.

305. Vultan - September 29, 2010

#302

Yeah, you got that right… from what I’ve read and heard from others it was definitely no picnic. I missed the 70’s myself; didn’t get here until ’83—what can I say? I’m always running late! ;D

But at least the 70’s weren’t the global nightmare of the 30’s and 40’s I mentioned above. And, as you said, today is better than the 70’s. So, I guess from that we can deduce some degree of progress in our bad times. :)

306. P Technobabble - September 29, 2010

299. MJ
Everything may not be going to hell, but far too much is, IMO.
I used to be a news freak and had the news on nearly 24/7. That was definitely not good, psychologically speaking! One of the worst things I
found about watching the news is that is has a false effect of making
me feel like I was involved. The thought of knowing what’s going on
makes you feel like you’re actually doing something in the world. We
need the mass of humanity to take on the political leaders, and get
them to do our bidding, rather than the other way around. Political leaders are supposed to actual LEAD people into history, rather than drag them through it. But in order to change it, we have to DO something. In the 60’s, we used to have sit-ins. John Lennon had a bed-in. I’d like to see the mass of humanity stay in bed…
293. Bob
Um… I kinda thought…. ummm…. you might…. sorta…. er…. have a…. umm… suggestion…
Oh, how I pray for Vulcan intervention right now!

307. P Technobabble - September 29, 2010

306.
uh… that’s “actually”…

308. Daoud - September 29, 2010

@303 Great first past-the-pilot episode. Show should have legs!

(Grace’s are great. Does she have a sister? j/k! How are Daniel’s?)

Bob, are you guys going with writing duos? Looking forward at the episodes announced so far, it seems each episode has a team: Sarah & Paul for last night, Carol & Kyle next, your brother & David Wolcove after. Are you guys assigning scripts a cycle?

309. Buzz Cagney - September 29, 2010

I’ve found that Press conference from post 109….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmWp590TUAE

I haven’t yet watched it so don’t really know what to think. It certainly doesn’t appear to have created much interest from what I’ve noticed.

310. dmduncan - September 29, 2010

Civilizations do end. Look at the Maya. The Roman Empire (including the Byzantine and Holy Roman variants) lasted almost 1500 years and then poof.

Italians still exist. Italy is still there. The world didn’t end though the Roman world ended. So things go on, but that is not to say that enormous changes like that will be easy to endure. They won’t. Europe sunk into the Dark Ages when the Empire collapsed. As long as there is a planet earth, and people on it, things will balance out and we will regain our footing, but it won’t be easy.

But what do I know? I believe things others think are nuts. I actually believe consciousness can cut through time and space to see the future. I think it actually happens.

My wife is American Indian. She belongs to a tight group of Indians from a particular reservation who are intense practitioners of their traditional religion. So I hear things. I know what she is being told, and I know from my own experience that there is more to reality than most people think. So what I hear disturbs me a lot. They are being told how to prepare for what is coming. And in all honesty I am very concerned for the world. I am concerned that so many people think that the usual will last forever and live their lives that way. I worry about it a lot, actually. For people in the cities. But what can one do?

Anyway. I like a lot of you folks. Just thought I’d share a little at the risk of sounding like a total loon. I don’t know what good it does except maybe to act as yet another source of independent confirmation that something strange is happening.

311. Buzz Cagney - September 29, 2010

#310 dmd…I actually believe consciousness can cut through time and space to see the future. I think it actually happens.

Mate, take it from me, you are absolutely correct. I don’t wish to go into needless detail on here (as its very personal and her loss still hurts) but a person that I loved very much died and at around the time she passed I had the horrible impression or thought or whatever that I was telling my sister that this person had died. And the next morning I was doing just that.
This person was not ill, she was just 24. We had no warning. And yet this thought was very real and very sickening. And it came true.
I have no answer as to how it happened I just know it did.
As you say, there is so much that we do not understand.

312. Disinvited - September 29, 2010

#276.

Somehow, I think the Australian ABC had more to do with it but I get your point.

#310.

In the 1960s my father would often accuse me of being scared of my own shadow, but there was a reason that Don Knott’s nervous man character become so successful for him and popular – he personified the way we all felt, “N-n-n-n-n-nervous? No.”

I’m just glad the Beatles came out with “Oobla Di, Oobla Da” and that I lived to hear Shanely’s words “Only a few people are awake and they live in a state of constant total amazement.”

313. dmduncan - September 29, 2010

@311: Buzz, sorry for your loss. And I believe what you say. Many, many people have experienced the same thing. And I understand about not wanting to share too many details. The internet is quite a public venue and there’s always some lurker who may take cheap shots at what one says, so thanks for taking a chance.

I would like to say that FEMA and Red Cross have guidelines about what everyone should have for emergency supplies. Just in case. It probably wouldn’t hurt to pay attention to those right now.

Apparently grocery stores here in America use the “efficient” Japanese model of replenishment; gone are the days of a back room filled with stock. Now, stock comes in and goes immediately onto the shelves. It’s a system that depends on everything flowing constantly with no breakdowns anywhere. If there is a breakdown for whatever reason, say, in the transportation of goods, then whatever is on the shelves is all the store you go to will have. If the same emergency that causes the breakdown also causes people to rush to the store at the same time to buy stuff, then there could be trouble.

314. Vultan - September 29, 2010

#313

I worked at a grocery store during college about six or seven years ago. It was a smaller chain of stores which used the Japanese model you mentioned… well, kinda. There was a stock of goods in the back, but there was a semi-truck coming in just about every other day with fresh goods. If the store were to go strictly with what it had in stock (in the back), it probably would’ve emptied within a week and a half, maybe two. So, yeah, if there was ever a truckers strike or some kind disaster that cut off the supply of fuel, it wouldn’t take long for the USA to descend into a Mad Max, every man for himself, Hurricane Katrina-aftermath kind of chaos.

So, be nice to truck drivers! They feed America.

315. Vultan - September 29, 2010

Also, I would just like to say how amazingly diverse and meandering this board has been. We’ve gone from Hawaii Five-0 to the Patriot Act, to predator drones, to the Ground Zero mosque controversy, to religion, to Simpsons references, to civilization falling apart, to grocery store business models!

And all this on a website devoted to Star Trek!!!
Let’s have a round of applause for diversity! Yay!!! :D

316. Harry Ballz - September 29, 2010

310-15

Great posts, everyone! I agree with all of you. I truly believe something horrific will happen in the next few years. Best guess? A nuclear attack somewhere in the Middle East, some superpowers lining up behind Iran,others behind Israel, turning it into a “chessboard war” with further attacks, half of Europe being wiped out, a spread of radiation poisoning….possibly 250 million dead before the carnage is over and then………and then a world council will be formed to put steps into place to make sure that THIS NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

It’s this nightmare scenario that causes the world to make “effective change”, thereby ushering in a golden era of enlightenment and peace.

Thoughts?

317. Vultan - September 29, 2010

#316

Hmmm… an era of global peace and enlightenment after a World War…
Seems like I’ve heard this story before… on some show about outer space and aliens…

Was it 3rd Rock from the Sun?

318. Harry Ballz - September 29, 2010

Yes, I know…….scary how close it is to the Trek mythology, isn’t it?

319. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - September 29, 2010

318

Well, remember that the Two Genes both served in WWII, and saw the birth of the UN. The Federation is the third iteration of the World Council idea. First the League of Nations, then the United Nations, and finally the fictitious Federation. Each arose from an increasingly awful war.

320. Disinvited - September 29, 2010

#313.

I would add that what you say is true of the numerous grocery store chains dotting the landscape. However, I have found outposts on the edge of what unacclimatized city folk would regard as extreme environments that have have much better sense. These are what could be described for lack of better words as true General Stores run by Mom and Pop. In other words, they are still out there, you are just not going to find them in downtown L.A.

On a side note: it does amaze me how many people these days do not know how or why to dig and stock something as simple as a root cellar.

Not that I think I’m ready to throw myself in with this lot:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/27/AR2010092704691.html

as Socrates, himself is reported to have bemoaned writing with “Nobody will have to remember anything for themselves anymore.”

321. P Technobabble - September 29, 2010

One of my favorite stories was reportedly from some retired Army General (can’t remember his name) and he claimed the US government had been secretly working for years on faking an alien invasion, which would unite the whole planet against a common goal, but would also allow the government to take control of the population. Then, I read some stuff about “Project Blue Beam,” which was similar, but involved the use of specific sound waves and holograms meant to convince people that their favorite Savior had returned to earth to tell them how to live — and we would all live according to the government’s agenda. Now, I can’t imagine any government getting away with such hoaxes, but these scenarios would make a good movie, or mini-series, hmm?

322. dmduncan - September 29, 2010

320: “These are what could be described for lack of better words as true General Stores run by Mom and Pop. In other words, they are still out there, you are just not going to find them in downtown L.A.”

Yes! Until Super Walmart closes in, I suppose there are the local family owned holdouts who do things the old way.

In the big cities there’s an awful lot of faith in the permanence of the system. Groceries just appear on shelves as if by magic creating the impression of inexhaustible supply and a sense of security. We wake up every morning just trusting that stores will always have what we want.

323. MJ - September 29, 2010

#319. On behalf of anyone on this website who wished to respond to your postings in the future, I hereby create the acronym, “GLCWAUSMSAE”, which we can now use as shorthand to address you by.

You are welcome!

324. Disinvited - September 29, 2010

Too bad Ellison is winding down, I would have imagined he could have written a biting funny script for SHAT MY DAD SAYS that would have given the show the direction it needed to follow.

325. Red Dead Ryan - September 29, 2010

316

Good grief, Harry! LOL! I didn’t think anyone could out-doom-and-gloom my post (#398)!

“It’s this nightmare scenario that causes the world to make “effective change”, thereby ushering in a golden era of enlightenment and peace.”

A modern prophecy has it that a great but somewhat flawed man (who likes to get drunk!) will create something special which will bring extraterrestrial visitors (who look amazingly like us, except they have pointed ears) onto our world. As a result, a chain of events will be set in motion that will unite the human race in the pursuit of greater knowledge through the exploration of the cosmos.

That man…..that man could be anyone…..could it be Harry Ballz? :-)

326. Red Dead Ryan - September 29, 2010

OOPS! THAT SHOULD READ #298. I NEED TO RE-LEARN HOW TO COUNT, DAMNIT!

327. Harry Ballz - September 29, 2010

325. Red Dead Ryan

“a great but somewhat flawed man…….will create something special”

Oh, you’ve read my script?

(blush)

328. Red Dead Ryan - September 29, 2010

328

Oh, don’t be so modest Harry! Anyone who razzes the likes of Erica Durance and Tom Cruise online is obviously capable of great things!

On the other hand, maybe you’re not blushing but drunk on red wine! :-)

329. Red Dead Ryan - September 29, 2010

GAH! I obviously meant that for Harry (327). Again, I just can’t count!

DAMN NUMBERS!

330. Harry Ballz - September 29, 2010

Ryan, funny, I AM drinking red wine as I read your post! Ooooh, spooky!

As for watching Durance? I think the Smallville producers are making the audience go through an……….(wait for it)……………END-DURANCE TEST!!!

331. Red Dead Ryan - September 29, 2010

330

Ha! Good one!

332. Harry Ballz - September 29, 2010

Yes, I’m rather proud of that one…

333. MJ - September 29, 2010

Hey Harry and Red Dead Ryan — maybe you two should “get a room” at this point? :-)

334. Harry Ballz - September 29, 2010

MJ

what does that stand for…..Major Joke?

I kidz because I luvz!

335. MJ - September 30, 2010

“Major Jackass” perhaps? LOL

336. Harry Ballz - September 30, 2010

How about Massive Jack-………….well, it’s good we can laugh at ourselves!

337. MvRojo - September 30, 2010

It looks like “Undercovers” might not last unless its ratings start to stabilize. It dropped a sizable 25% from last week in the demo ratings.

338. dmduncan - September 30, 2010

I watched Undercovers last night again. It was on while I sat down to eat. It’s not great or awful, just mediocre. Like TJ Hooker. Gugu is a jewel on HD. If it wasn’t for her I wouldn’t have watched as much of it as I did.

339. dmduncan - September 30, 2010

Lady GuGu? Am I gaga for Gugu?

340. dmduncan - September 30, 2010

Scratch that TJ Hooker comparison. TJ Hooker WAS awful.

341. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - September 30, 2010

” #319. On behalf of anyone on this website who wished to respond to your postings in the future, I hereby create the acronym, “GLCWAUSMSAE”, which we can now use as shorthand to address you by.

You are welcome!”

Not bad! I like it! Thank you. You could just call me “Gene L.”, or just use whatever post number I happen to fall on. (But ya doesn’t has to call me Johnson.)

I had originally posted as “Gene L. Coon was the Better Gene”, but that was a bit confrontational. I like to play with screen names, since this is all in fun.

342. GLCWAUSMSAE - September 30, 2010

Hey MJ, how’s this? :)

343. Red Dead Ryan - September 30, 2010

I just watched a part of “$#!* My Dad Says”. I only watched about five minutes when it became “$#!* My Bowel Says”. So I decided to take a “$#!*” instead of having to watch it on tv. Its the first time in my life that taking a $#!* was more fun than watching the Shat.

Yeah, I’m going to admit that perhaps the critics were right to $#!* all over the show!

344. Harry Ballz - September 30, 2010

343

And that, ladies and germs, is what you would call a “sh*t review”!

345. Red Dead Ryan - September 30, 2010

344

“And that, ladies and germs, is what you would call a “sh*t review”!”

Ladies and germs? LOL! Yeah, I suppose us gents can make the ladies sick, maybe you’re right to call us “germs”. :-)

346. Harry Ballz - September 30, 2010

Ryan, I can’t take credit for the “ladies and germs” crack. Milton Berle first used that line back in the 1950’s on his TV show.

You’re much too young to know of such things.

347. Red Dead Ryan - September 30, 2010

346

Harry, you can indeed take some credit for at least making me aware of Milton Berle! :-)

348. skyjedi - October 2, 2010

I thought i was told by the owner of this site that talking politics will get you banned. Or are their special privileges for some and not for others?

349. James - October 5, 2010

Typical commie website, let the black race baiters talk but the opinionated white guys get their comments deleted.

350. James - October 5, 2010

Oh btw the black show undercovers was SHIT, thats why nobody is watching it. Hope yall multiculturalists retards enjoyed it because it’s going bye bye.

351. James - October 5, 2010

Fun fact: No other race is in the process of holding the black people down, they hold themselves down by protecting criminals and not standing up for themselves by telling the cops where to find the badguys.

352. Harry Ballz - October 5, 2010

349-351

Interesting that we never see a red neck on anyone with black skin.

353. dmduncan - October 5, 2010

Clearly James is from the 1950’s. Definitive proof that time travel is possible.

354. Red Dead Ryan - October 5, 2010

James is an idiot. I’m surprised that he didn’t post under the name “Donald O’Brien” (“Seinfeld”).

355. Vultan - October 5, 2010

Computers these days are way too user-friendly. Even racist idiots are able to use them.

356. Harry Ballz - October 5, 2010

Interesting how people filled with self-doubt and low self-esteem always want to lash out at others.

“Anger……lead you to the dark side, it will.”

357. Anthony Pascale - October 5, 2010

Goodbye James

358. keachick - October 6, 2010

WOW! Little did I know when I started reading this board. It has taken me a while to read everything and not being American, I am still not quite sure what the Patriot Act is and so on. It has certainly been very interesting, especially the bit about people being surprised and even advising Bob Orci, a more public figure, to be careful about expressing too much of his own personal politics. Interesting and worrisome at the same time. Gosh, some of you guys do seem really scared?!

I have not seen the new reboot of the Hawaii 5-O series, but remember the original, sort of. I hope this new one is being filmed in Hawaii – lots of nice scenery, from memory. Hopefully, one of the NZ TV channels will pick up the series.

I agree that many things seem to be worse than they were in the past, but I think it is a lot to do with “swings and roundabouts”. As far as predictions, prophecies etc, well, there have always been those, as told by charlatans, soothsayers as well as genuine prophets. Life can be a very scary business – always has been. I agree that many people, especially those living in the cities, take a lot for granted, like always having power, water and food easily available. Most have become very dependent on technology – as in, hot meals come out of a microwave, and milk, as we all know, simply comes from a plastic bottle…

All our major hospitals, which are mostly public (ie stated funded), have a chaplaincy division and chapel. They are multi-denominational, with representatives from all the major religions making themselves available for patients and their families. Most churches have halls, which they make available to the public for various (often) secular activities. It might be really good if the ‘mosque’ could allow for multi-denominational and cultural activities to take place within its walls, since it does seem to be quite a large complex, and may overshadow Ground Zero, even if it is not that near. A gesture of goodwill could go a long way towards healing the pain and grief of those affected by the 9/11 tragedy. Oh well, see what happens…

Bob- How’s that Trek sequel coming along? Keep up that writing. There be here a long time TOS/Captain Kirk loving trekkie/trekker or whatever waiting – just have it done by “yesterday” and don’t forget about that poor little beagle! No pressure, of course…:)!

359. dmduncan - October 6, 2010

Worst case scenario, our civilization depends on the proper functioning of SCADAs across the nation. First time ever so much has depended on a piece of hardware that is vulnerable to both EMP and CME induced geomagnetic storms.

360. keachick - October 6, 2010

@ 359

What is SCADAs?

361. dmduncan - October 6, 2010

SCADA. Singular.

362. keachick - October 6, 2010

361 Thank you. What does SCADA mean? I’m sorry, but I do not have a lot of up to date techno knowledge – so bite me! Therefore, please explain…

363. Harry Ballz - October 6, 2010

Wouldn’t that be “byte” me?

364. dmduncan - October 7, 2010

SCADA: Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition. Boxes of computer hardware all over the country that control infrastructure processes — power grid, water treatment, oil/gas pipelines.

365. keachick - October 7, 2010

Mm – SCADA! Yes, I see what you mean. Wasn’t the “hacking” of the network that controlled these vital infrastructures part of the plot of Die Hard 4? They called it a “fire sale”.

I think that people could get easily freaked out by all of this, especially as a movie does pose this occurring a possibility, if only in fiction. Ordinary folk, who would not dream of being suicide bombers etc, are not the only people watching these movies. The question – does ‘art’ imitate ‘life’ or can ‘life’ imitate ‘art’? may not be such a silly one.

Film makers should take care…

“Wouldn’t that be “byte” me?” See what I mean. Keachick = not much techno knowledge…:)

366. Harry Ballz - October 8, 2010

D’OH!

367. akne - April 10, 2011

Yeah bookmaking this wasn’t a high risk decision great post! .

368. Shaun Kitt - July 18, 2011

Perfect piece of work you have done, this web site is really cool with wonderful info .

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