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Rumor: No Khan For Star Trek Sequel – But Known TOS Villain October 25, 2010

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Rumor,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Now that scripting has started on the new Star Trek movie, we shall expect more and more rumors to crop up. Today a new one has emerged from a report citing a source that says Khan will definitely not be the villain in the Star Trek movie, but a familiar TOS character will be. More on this rumor below.


RUMOR: NO Khan – but a TOS villain

The Khan or no Khan has been one of the biggest subjects of discussion regarding the Star Trek sequel. Now a report in Badass News (from former CHUD editor Devin Faraci) says an "informant close to the production" has confirmed Khan will NOT be in the Star Trek sequel, but the villain will be a known character, quoting the source:

It’s definitely a character that will make fans of TOS excited. Think along the lines of Harry Mudd or Trelane or Gary Mitchell or the Talosians or the Horta. Actually it’s one of those that I named.

For now treat this entirely as a rumor. But if true, then it would mean that the team agrees with most Trek fans, and that Khan is not the best choice for their second film.

Mudd, Mitchell, Trelane, Talosian, and Horta – is one of these the Star Trek sequel villain?

Some thoughts

As for the rest of the list, some seem implausible as main villain. Harry Mudd is more of a potential comic relief character than a true villain, and the Horta (from "Devil in the Dark") aren’t really bad guys, just misunderstood (and with burning their messages into the ground, they don’t make very good conversationalists). Either would be interesting additions to the new Star Trek movie, but it is hard to imagine them as the main villains. 

The Talosians from "The Cage" (and "The Menagerie") could make formidable villains, with their total mind control powers. And Trelane, another god-like being (and possibly a Q), could make for an interesting villain, toying with the new crew of the USS Enterprise.

The hardest to work out would be Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before". He is a very interesting character, but what made him work was that he was James T. Kirk’s best friend who was then turned into an all powerful egomaniac. However, he was no where to be seen in the 2009 Star Trek, with Bones filling the role as Kirk’s best friend. And to introduce Mitchell as a friend and then turn him into an angry god-like villain just seems too much like a remake, something the filmmakers said they wouldn’t do. That being said, there is potential there.

But again this is still just a rumor so too early to tell.




1. Captain Karl - October 25, 2010

Talosians….that way, Pike can be in the sequel!

2. Harry Seldom - October 25, 2010

We should keep a list. These rumors could be worth a laugh when the movie gets released.

3. TrekDude - October 25, 2010

My guess will be harry mud…..

4. General Martok - October 25, 2010

I don’t think they would use an entire species as a villian for the next movie. That rules out Talosions or Horta. I couldn’t really see a whole movie on Trelane at this point, (all comedy, not very sinister), and not Harry Mudd for the same reason. My money’s on Gary.

5. Engage! - October 25, 2010

It would be nice seeing the Talosians again.

6. BaxterDog - October 25, 2010

I hope it’s Gary Mitchell….lots of potential there….after all, how can a “God” be killed by a falling boulder?

7. JoeR - October 25, 2010

God oh god

8. T'Leba - October 25, 2010

I’m glad it’s not Khan!

9. NX-17000 - October 25, 2010

I’m thinking Talosians… It would be cool to see them… and Pike could be there too. That would be really nice to see, It’d be great to have greenwood too. He’s probably my favourite charcater in the entire movie.

10. Jesse - October 25, 2010

Trelane? Please not Trelane.

11. NuFan - October 25, 2010

I guess EVERY tos character will be rumored to be in it.

12. miraclefan - October 25, 2010

Gary Mitchell all the way!

13. Flake - October 25, 2010

Some form of Matrix/Inception dream world mind f*ck Talosian style?

The Enterprise flung to the far reaches of the galaxy and beyond resulting in a crewmember becoming super human and threatening to destroy everyone with his god like powers?

Trelane… may as well be Q instead.

Horta? lol

Harry feckin Mudd as the villain? haha good one.

14. MJ - October 25, 2010

Bring on the Horta…YES!!!!

15. RTC - October 25, 2010

Personally, methinks this is rumor-mongering. The writers are creative enough to not have to rely on a vintage villain.

16. BorgKing - October 25, 2010

Gary Mitchell is going to be hard to cast. I vote Edward Norton.

17. NuFan - October 25, 2010

Is that Anthony’s entry for the Star Trek 2 logo contest?

18. "Check the Circuit!" - October 25, 2010

Talosians would make the most sense from a timeline standpoint if it is now roughly “13 years” earlier from season one of TOS. (When Spock and Pike served together on the Enterprise.)

And plot elements of The Cage would make for a great movie. Then at some point in the future, we could be treated to a movie version of The Menagrie side of the story.

And yes, we get more Bruce Greenwood.

19. Infinitemonkey - October 25, 2010

They have the license to do whatever they want and take it to directions unknown to anyone, yet, this is what they came up with?

Originality is truly dead in Hollywood then?

20. Gooseneck Viewer - October 25, 2010

I would hope it’s Gary Mitchell…or the Talosians…Harry Mudd would only be good as a supporting character in the context of a much larger story…

21. Lt. Bailey - October 25, 2010

My money is on Trelane…. but the others are very good choices. I never really though of Harry Mudd as a villian though. Perhaps in Mudds Women but….. After he showed up in I, Mudd, he was more of comic relief but in a good way that I liked to see him. Roger C. Carmal was perfect in that role in that episode…. if only they would have the 500 Stellas in the new film for Harry Mudd.

Speaking of Harry Mudd, that was one tasty drink at STTE, especially if you got it in the Phaser shot tree they sold. The 5 shot tree, of course.

22. Spartan128 - October 25, 2010

Good. No Khan, he should be left untouched.

23. siphunclekaiju54 - October 25, 2010

The Talosians would be great, because it would mean cerebral, reality-twisting, philosophical Trek… And that would be pretty sweet!

24. capri - October 25, 2010

I hope it’s NONE of these! I really hope these are just rumors, and the creative team came up with something new.

25. BorgKing - October 25, 2010

Ahem, they should also keep the James R. Kirk typo.

26. NCC-73515 - October 25, 2010

they said that it’s not about the villain, so it could be a minor threat, like harry… or a friend in the end, like the horta :D

27. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - October 25, 2010

No Kahn. If the rumor is correct, this is good news indeed.

28. Rach - October 25, 2010

I will flip if it’s him. I HATED him. D<

29. Christy - October 25, 2010

Honestly, I would love to see where they might be able to go with the Trelane aspect, especially considering that Rodenberry did make a side comment years ago that Trelane might have been a baby Q (for an expansion on that theme, read Peter David’s Q-Squared) and it would be fun to see what Kirk and Spock might make of it…I do agree that Mudd and the Horta seem to be McGuffins and that mainly leaves the Talosians and Trelane as the forerunners.

30. Dee - October 25, 2010

Seriously ?…… Really? … Wow … if “Harry Mudd” … the story is not about the villain for sure, because this guy is a joke, is not ?…. Trelane? Horta ?…. … Producers are wanting me say “Khaaaan,” is that guys ?…. HAHAHAHAHA !…. okay then I’ll say “Gary Mitchell” … or maybe “Talosians “…. LOL!…..WHATEVER!

31. eduardo sanchez - October 25, 2010

talosians, pike … thats where i hope we’re headed. but really, i think its going to be good no matter what they come up with. they are a very creative team.

32. Ceti Alpha 5 - October 25, 2010

My money is on Kor.

33. Dave - October 25, 2010

Pike is already in a Wheelchair, why not it makes sence. The enterprise takes Pike along for a shake up cruise when they come across the Talos system then we all know what happens next…..

34. somethoughts - October 25, 2010

I wonder if Bob is pissed there is a informant leaking info :)

35. TheCap - October 25, 2010

I think Trelane could be an excellent villain. Sure Campbell was goofy and campy in the role, but the character could be a formidable opponent. The Talosians are also quite a good idea.

36. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

I’m guessing Talosians. The mind control thing always has potential in a society of people that likes their minds to be under control.

Plus, what a temptation they could provide to the Vulcans.

37. StalwartUK - October 25, 2010

Talosians look to be the best bet. Considering we haven’t seen them since TOS Season 1 maybe it’s about time we saw them again.

38. eduardo sanchez - October 25, 2010

orci is too busy photoshopping vulcan ears on to chicks using his new ipad to care about the info leaks.

with a top tv show and all these movies, he’s got to be one happy guy.

39. Jefferies Tuber - October 25, 2010

During production of the first movie, didn’t one of the SC already say that they envision Steve Buscemi as Mudd?

40. Dee - October 25, 2010


41. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010

Interesting. As soon as I read the above article, I figured it would be the Talosians because of Inception’s popularity. Then I read down through the posts and #13 Flake has the same idea…”Some form of Matrix/Inception dream world mind f*ck Talosian style?”

That’s GOTTA be it!

…and, not to fan the Shatner flames, but you DO realize, that by depicting mad dreams on screen, it leaves a huge opportunity to have the Talosians f*ck with the new young Kirk by having him see and believe himself (in a very realistic fantasy/dream) to be old, withered and weak? Cue the Shat!

Err, sorry Bill, no offense!

42. Phil - October 25, 2010

Please, let it be none. Either that, or borrow the name – think Harry Mudd, but twisted and sick, like Heath Ledgers Joker.

43. Craiger - October 25, 2010

What if they did a new version of the Romulan War? Or a new of The Balance of Terror episode? They could have an updated version of Spock’s speech describing 22nd Century technology. That could be a nod to the Enterprise series.

44. Michael - October 25, 2010

Killer Horta’s in Outer Space! Yea, that’s the ticket! But seriously folks, it’s the Talosians all the way baby! The most potential to build a back story and with their mind control, endless possiblities, and YES, Capt. Pike would be there most definately! Trelane….zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..Mudd…zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

45. Vorta3434343434343434343 - October 25, 2010

Mmmm, horta! I love greek food!

46. Nomad - October 25, 2010

Talosians, please! How could you fail to write a good story with an adversary that can alter your whole perception of reality? More of a challenge than your average knobbly-forehead alien.

47. CaptRobau - October 25, 2010

If the Klingons are involved, Kor is the most likely choice.

48. somethoughts - October 25, 2010


That would be awesome, reminds me of those classic outer limits episodes.

Dreams are awesome in the big screen, can do some crazy stuff.

49. Red Dead Ryan - October 25, 2010

I wouldn’t rule out Khan just yet. At least not till we hear it from the horse’s mouth. This is all pretty silly, designed to get tongues wagging. I mean, Trelane? Harry Mudd? Two overrated characters, though I suppose Trelane ALONG with Q might work. Though we already have seen about two dozen episodes dealing with all-powerful beings already. Harry Mudd I found to be incredibly annoying. If they are going the comedy route, which I really hope they aren’t, I suggest they cast Harry Ballz!

Also, let’s not forget about the Klingons. They’re the elephants in the room.

Overall, Trelane, Mudd, Mitchell, Talosians and the Horta aren’t villains, and are probably mentioned more for being potential supporting or minor characters. There is as much a chance we will see them as we will see Andorians, Gorn or Tholians.

50. Marc Henson - October 25, 2010

I think they should bring in Gary Mitchell. But not as a villain. The only reason he became a villain was because of his exposure to the galactic barrier. If they do that it will be too much of a remake as was mentioned.

I think that Trelane might actually work. Think of what the special effects for the knew movie could show with his “magic tricks.” I think it might be cool.

I still think that they should use Klingons. Kor, Kang and Koloth would be neat.

51. fallynleaf - October 25, 2010


Or, The Romulan Commander from “The Enterprise Incident”.

Has no one considered the female villains?

52. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010

49. Red Dead Ryan “Harry Mudd…..I suggest they cast Harry Ballz!”

If they cast me in a 10 second cameo, I will dance naked with a Mugatu! :>)

53. Thorny - October 25, 2010

I only care that the story is good and a little tighter than Trek 2009 (no blowing up civilizations, no Cadet-to-Captain silliness). No more villains driven to insanity, please. Of those listed, I think it should be Harry Mudd as the “human” antagonist while Kirk & Co. have to solve some other crisis using their brains instead of their brawn.

54. jas_montreal - October 25, 2010

Lets get one thing clear…. its not Harry Mudd.

But I was hoping for Khan. Sorta sucks ! Maybe they’ll hold him off for another movie.

55. jas_montreal - October 25, 2010

Lets get one thing clear…. its not Harry Mudd.

But I was hoping for Khan. Sorta sucks ! Maybe they’ll hold him off for another movie.

56. Rosario T. Calabria - October 25, 2010

Of those mentioned, the Talosians for sure sound like the most probable.

I don’t think Mudd work work as a big-screen “villain”.

While I agree with what you said, Anthony, about Gary Mitchell, at the same time it’s sorta the character that would make the most sense given the recent quote from Lindelof where he said the sequel would focus on the Trek “family”.

They could fit him in nicely with that concept, I’d say.

57. etsjedi - October 25, 2010

This is a rumor at best, heck, last week they said Star Wars 7,8,9 are going to made!
I think that it will be the Klingons and either Kor or Kang as the head guy!

58. DJT - October 25, 2010


59. Daoud - October 25, 2010

None of those were really ever mustache-twirling villains though.

Harry Mudd’s just a contagonist, trigonist type.
Trelane is an antagonist who turns out to be a misunderstood spoilt child.
Gary Mitchell is a deuterotagonist turned antagonist anti-hero.
Talosians were misunderstood paranoid psychics of a lost race–who from their p.o.v. weren’t really evil, just alien. After all, at the end of Menagerie, they’re completely redeemed.
And the Horta. She’s no villain, she’s a mother!

Frankly, if that’s the best they can do, then no Doritos for them.

The most wicked PERIOD-appropriate re-imagine-ables include:
–Fleet Captain Garth of Izar
–The KKK: Kor, Koloth & Kang
–The Romulan Commander (either of them, but preferably HIM, not her at this point)
–The Kelvans

The more I think about it: “A threat from outside our Galaxy… ” “Enough to turn a captain insane…”

Or, what if the Kelvans encountered Talos first? And Garth was the first captain on the scene, sent a bizarre report… and thus Kirk and Enterprise sent to investigate…. but a Klingon ship also hears the hail and is interested….

Oh, what a soup.

60. fallynleaf - October 25, 2010


Why not the female Romulan Commander?

61. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Another option: The leak is BS.

62. Aragorn189 - October 25, 2010

My list of villain reccomendations and speculation:

Klingons: Could be done well, but too much chance of rehashing.

Khan: Need a major plot twist in order to do him justice and really portray him in a new light. I’ve had a good theory of having the Klingons find the Botany Bay and allying with Khan untill they realize he is insane. At this point the klingons have to learn how to work together with the Federation and Kirk.

Romulans: Political fallout from Nero’s actions would seem a predictable direction to go, but would tie in better with the established story arc. Maybe the Romulans split between the isolationists and the war mongerers.

Gorn: It would be nice to have their culture be more defined. But it’s not as marketable, as they are a more obscure Trek alien. Besides the stigma of the “worst fight ever”

Andorians: It would be nice to have an appearance. However, I can’t see the makings of antagonism in it, especially with 100 years of cooperation between Vulcan, Earth and Andoria.

Trelane: The only way this would work is if he was more malevolent. Sure make him appear to be the spoiled brat he is in the episode, but give it a darker tone. Also would be nice to clear up the confusion of whether he is a member of the Q continuium or not.

Harry Mudd: cameo material only. His antics aren’t good for film, unless you make him more like a space pirate instead of a bumbling smuggler and con man.

Horta: Star Trek meets monster movie? Eh, too much room for rehashing here.

Talosians: Definitely will give them more time to shine and can make their struggle with Enterprise crew more threatening. Either way I would like to see how they would handle it. However, they might be too cerebral for a Star Trek film.

Gary Mitchell: Out of all of these, this is a character a wild card. On the one hand, he has the potential for a really compelling villain. However, it could end up being a rehash. The best plot would be something of a cross between WNMHGB and Hide and Q. Mitchell gets his powers from the barrier or another method. But then instead of his powers growing rapidly, his powers slowly grow. Then throw in a developing world the Enterprise crew are to observe. Gary goes beserk with power and causes a crisis on said world due to his powers. Kirk and crew are now forced to either walk away or confront Mitchell for his breaking of the prime directive.

All in all, they’ve got some ways to go, but Mitchell to me sounds like the one with most potential.

63. P Technobabble - October 25, 2010

I don’t think Mudd would work as a big-screen villain either. He’s essentially just a trouble-maker and a nuisance, and not so formidable. Unless he’s completely different in the “new” universe…
I’d love to see something with the Talosians, something we don’t know about them, something to be really feared about them apart from the mind-control thing.
I don’t think Gary Mitchell could work as villain because you’d have to do a remake of WNMHGB in order to get him into the story in the first place.
Trelane (and Mudd, for that matter) doesn’t really interest me, I didn’t care for him to begin with — and I wasn’t crazy about “Q” either… but that’s just me.
The Horta? The whole story would have to take place underground, and I don’t see that happening.
From this list, the Talosians would make the best big-screen villain — completely unknown and mysterious beings with seemingly invincible powers.
Of course, rumors have been known to be just rumors, or red-herrings. I’m sure secrecy is as big a part of making the sequel as writing the script.

64. Red Dead Ryan - October 25, 2010


“If they cast me in a ten second cameo, I will dance naked with a Mugatu! :>)”

Careful, Harry! I hear the hairy beasts are quite horny and not just in the obvious way….

65. The First Son of Krypton - October 25, 2010

Mitchell or the Talosians, if this list is true, would make great villains.

But I guess this list is just a Bucket of Dren

66. Dac - October 25, 2010

Heh, I wanna say its bullshit – but if they *really*, and I mean *really* re-invent the character of Mudd, he could work as a galactic mercenary/conman type. Trelane is basically Q, so that could provide some interesting stories, but I can’t see them being action packed. The others I really can’t see happening.

Having said that, If they were going to redo anything, i’d have much rather seen the Doomsday machine. You don’t have a bad guy per se, you have an unrelenting force of nature, which is probably scarier.

67. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Or maybe Person X is leaking several possibilities to see how we react to the one it is, because we are going to react to them all. ;-)

68. Dave Smith - October 25, 2010

I hope it’s Gary Mitchell. The new Trek is an alternate universe somewhat so a plausible storyline of how he and Kirk met later is possible. He would make a formidable villain. I always felt his potential was cut to short whether it be because of the story or the budget in the 60’s. The fact that he is a star fleet officer, Kirk’s best friend and possesses godlike powers is a lot of meat on the bone. It would also be nice to connect to a back story with Kirk’s brother. So many opportunities.

69. Thorny - October 25, 2010

63… But Mudd is actually the most sensible prospect on this list.

Mudd could be a good comic-relief character. He doesn’t have to be the movie’s Big Bad, he could just be an annoyance that makes Kirk & Co.’s lives difficult as they tackle something else. But if they use more than one villain, they need to make sure it doesn’t turn to camp like the 1990s Batman movies.

Trelane today really seems like a juvenile Q, and Q is now permanently associated with Picard & Co., so I wouldn’t go there in Trek Reboot. Besides, there is no way to defeat an omnipotent being anyway (Kirk & Co. only escaped because Trelane’s mom and dad made him come in for dinner.) So I just don’t see how a Trelane movie would work.

The Talosians are cool, but I have trouble seeing how a remake of “The Cage” would work today. I really want this movie to be a “the crew becomes one team” movie after the re-introduction of them in Trek 2012 in a series of mostly unrelated vignettes. Sending Kirk off to be a Talosian prisoner and watching two hours of Spock & Co. trying to blast through the door to get him just doesn’t seem like a very interesting movie.

The Horta? No. Great story, but we already know the Outer Limits-like reveal: she’s just a mother protecting her young. Getting a two hour movie out of this doesn’t seem realistic.

Gary Mitchell? He was Kirk’s best friend in the original time line, but no mention of him this time around. Too complicated to get him into a feature film and have him mean enough to Kirk that Kirk goes after him instead of just hightailing it out of Delta Vega. And oops, Trek 2009 already showed us a very different, much less remote Delta Vega.

70. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Harry Mudd. Not really a villain so much as a clown. If he’s got the same “soul” in both universes, then there’s slim pickings for villainy.

Trelayne. I don’t know how you get people to pay money to see Trelayne. I’m nixing the Trelayne option.

The Horta. Also not really a villain. Great misunderstood monster, but strikes me as small budget story line.

Gary Mitchell. Another great character. But where do you go with it? Still too small in scope.

Which leaves the Talosians. If we are told the truth that one of the options is the actual storyline, then this one seems the most likely.

The power of illusion the Talosians possess could make for the sort of big budget scenario we know they are looking at; in addition, Bob’s keen interest in the Kennedy assassination is about the difference between reality and illusion. The subject of mind control does have current relevance, which relevance is also something we know they want. It would diverge from Prime Universe canon by making Kirk encounter the Talosians instead of Pike, which is the kind of alteration these guys like. And the Menagerie is such a slow episode that there is a LOT of room for improvement.

One could imagine, for instance, a scenario where the new world the Vulcans discover to migrate to IS Talos IV.

71. Bob Tompkins - October 25, 2010

Hope they don’t use the Borg.
There are other villains available
The Doomsday Machine, that is a story that could be really really expanded upon. I have always wondered what would happen if it turned out the Doomsday Machine was created by some race to counter the Borg.

72. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

How’m I doing, Bob?

73. Starbase Britain - October 25, 2010

Talosians is an exciting and different prospect. I like the idea.
possibilities are endless with these aliens.


74. Trekkie since 1966 - October 25, 2010

Stella 500 says: “Harcourt Fenton Mudd! You’d better NOT be pestering that handsome Captain Kirk, you fat, good-for-nothing windbag!!!”

We never got Q into a TNG movie, so I’ll vote for Trelane, but not the foppish, misbehaving child. Something more malevolent, or at least sociopathic. “The Bad Q Seed,” as it were.

75. brady - October 25, 2010

I didn’y read all the posts so I don’t know if this has been said……But Kirk is actually doing Pikes voyages(timeline brought them together too soon) so the Talosians could be Kirk’s distress call. Gary would be a cool concept but they really don’t need to redo any episodes IMO

76. Barry Muntington - October 25, 2010

What happened to some originality eh?

77. Imrahil - October 25, 2010

It’d be nice to use Mitchell, but they sort of screwed the pooch by not having him in the ACADEMY STORY.

78. MikeD - October 25, 2010

Transporter accident and evil Kirk???

79. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010

70. dmduncan “the new world the Vulcans discover to migrate to IS Talos IV”

Except, don’t forget, Spock Prime didn’t just disappear at the end of the last movie. He’s still around, probably helping out.

I can see it now…the Vulcan scout team announces that they’ve found the perfect planet to settle on…..they feed the coordinates back to base….Spock Prime takes one look at the coordinate numbers, clears his throat, and say, “uh, guys….”


80. Battle-scarred Sciatica - October 25, 2010

Its obvious!

it will be the Squire of Gothos….played by Sam Wiggle (as depicted in the photo).

Ah, poor Greg how my daughter misses you. sam doesn’t have a patch on you, the smiley faced Gimboid!

81. Anthony Pascale - October 25, 2010

RE: Mitchell
Again I did say it is an interesting idea, but anything where they introduce him as Kirks best friend seems odd, and anything where he becomes a godlike jerk is a redo. However, he could be a friend of Kirks and it is possible he is corrupted in some other way, possibly via outside influence. Mitchell under mind control of the Talosians?

82. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

79. Harry Ballz – October 25, 2010

Unless, following the example of Delta Vega, Talos IV is not CALLED Talos IV, but something else entirely. As for Spock Prime, he could be somewhere else, doing something else. Or he could be right there and not realize until it’s too late what planet they are on. But since Nimoy is not expected to be in the movie I would discount that last option.

83. Ralph F - October 25, 2010

Maybe it *is* Harry Mudd, and the story is going to be the always-in-the-top-5-fan-favorites retelling of “The Trouble with Tribbles”.

Think about it; you would have Mudd, of course, but you could also work in the Klingons, and in a big way. It doesn’t need to be a retelling of the story, per se, but the thematic elements are all there.

In fact, I’ve let my story-writing mind wander a bit before on this, and you can easily come up with a way to do an original storyline while still tying in a number of elements from several key TOS episodes, even if they’re not at the forefront.

That’s also assuming that, for one, the next TREK doesn’t take place right after the closing credits of the 2009 one — make the assumption it’s been a year(ish) since the Nero Incident. Not only do you have the whole loss-of-Vulcan backdrop story, but there’s been a year of exploration since then.

And if JJ explains the change in technology due to the fact the Kelvin’s scans of the Nerada (sp?) helped scoot Federation technology along, we’d have to assume the Klingons have done the same.

There’s also the Spoke Prime angle — what if he’s silently (as Nimoy has said he’s likely not going to be involved in the next one) moving the Federation along, perhaps in tech, but also in warning? The loss of the Intrepid need not happen — or does the Intrepid (all Vulcan crew) even exist? Manned before the destruction of Vulcan, maybe, or did it even come to pass at all in this timeline?

Still, if storylines get recycled even slightly, I’d love to see some referencing to some major TOS storylines — the Doomsday Machine comes to mind immediately, as does The Enterprise Incident and Mirror, Mirror.


(BTW, surf on over to DeviantArt(dot)com and do some looking; there were a few re-imagined TOS scenes done with Trek ’09* ships.)

(Also, can we come to some consensus on what to call Trek ’09? How about TFB (“The Future Begins”)?…)

84. Ralph F - October 25, 2010

#79 — As I recall, maybe from the novelization but also the film, Spock was going to be instrumental in the establishment of the new Vulcan colony. So he’s definitely involved in that.

85. devonp - October 25, 2010

None of this sounds very exciting or promising! I hope that NuTrek isn’t a one-trick pony? I think the 3 year delay was the 1st wrong move, now I hope they don’t blow it with a dumbass movie like Transformers II.

86. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


Oh, kind of like in TWOK where they got the planets mixed up?

Talk about sloppy navigating! :>)

You’re right about Spock Prime, though…he’ll be busy running a Hooters franchise back on Earth!

87. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Delta Vega in ST.09 shows that we cannot assume planetary designations will stay the same in this universe. Some will be the same, and others may not be. Talos IV might be one that is named differently.

88. Battle-scarred Sciatica - October 25, 2010

I thought Gary Mitchell was James R Kirk’s best friend?

89. Dyson Sphere - October 25, 2010

None – this must be a red herring

90. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


That’s why I said “coordinates”, not by name. It’s not like there’s a big sign sticking out of the planet saying “Talos IV”!

91. Andy Patterson - October 25, 2010

Will it be Captain Ronald Tracy?

92. Areli - October 25, 2010


Um, but no…That story was too touching to me to be happy to see it remade. I like my Rug Lava Monster and Mr. Shatner’s dad dying at the time of the filming made the episode have a whole new level of emotional feeling. And that would have to be an episode entirely underground. Not too much to see on a starship when your captain, first officer, chief medical officer, and a bunch of human sacrifices are in the ground chasing a lava thing.

The Talosians? They would be pretty good. :D Spock admiring the flora, Uhura can kick some woman’s behind (who just so happens to look like a Vulcan woman Spock used to be well acquainted with), Jim can pit himself in a battle of wits against the Talosians. Wouldn’t go down like this but I like the possibilities. They are easy to expand upon because we only know one aspect of them when they decided to kidnap Captain Pike, they are neither good or bad so they wouldn’t be EVIL VILLAINS TO BE DESTROYED, but more like the villain of the week that needs to be taught a lesson on morals.

Mudd is mud. All I can say. I like him in TOS and nowhere else.

Gary Mitchell. I feel he’d just become a repeat thing because the only reason he was evil was because he became a god. Also we have already been on Delta Vega.

Trelane…who might possibly be a Q…Q…Q…I love Qs. It’d be nice to see him threaten to destroy nu!Kirk’s universe because he wants to. But no.

My bet is on the Talosians.

93. quantentunnel - October 25, 2010

I’d like Gary Mitchell and Klingons!!!

Perhaps something like that:
After the destruction of Vulcan, the Federation got weaker and the Klingon Empire is a bigger threat than ever. Mitchell uses his god-like powers to stop them, but his ego makes him going to far, committing genocide to a klingon planet. The Enterprise-Crew has to stop him before he kills the whole species. Only Kirk, as an old friend, has a chance to get through to him.

That story would be more like an allegory, about the responsible use of power even against the enemy.

94. Jonboc - October 25, 2010

The only one I see not working is the Horta. All of the others could easily be crafted into a serious threat…yes…even Harry Mudd. Personally, I’m hoping for the Talosians, but any of those would make this long time TOS fan very very happy!

95. CmdrR - October 25, 2010

No Khan. Good news… if this is news. Rumors are what they are.

Rather it be Trelane. Can’t see them doing the Horta, unless it’s a cameo. Don’t really think they can put Pike in the bloop/bloop-bloop chair at this point. But, they can still kill him. Gary Mitchell would be cool, but how could he be a villain unless they go to the energy barrier that surrounds the the galaxy…



bwahahahaahahahahahahaha … energy barrier. I love 60’s TV.

96. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

90. Harry Ballz – October 25, 2010

But that’s easy to get around. Nobody but Spock Prime knows what they are, and let’s face it, the guy is well past his prime. Spock Prime is not ready for Prime Time anymore.

There’s lots of space. Navigating spacecraft is a calculation intensive business because everything is MOVING out there, it’s not all stuck in one spot, so it’s not like Spock would even recall exactly where in all that space the planet that was called Talos IV in his universe would be at that precise moment in the universe of the parallel past. Nor do I think you could have Spock being the only Vulcan in charge of finding a world for Vulcans. This is not his universe after all. He’s coming into a situation that already has its bureaucracy with its own players as a helper. There are many ways the Vulcans could end up on Talos IV without the benefit of Spock’s knowledge.

Spock Prime isn’t perfect. He didn’t do real good saving Romulus.

97. JimJ - October 25, 2010

Forget Harry Mudd and the Horta. I just can’t make up my mind which would be best. Talosians is intriguing because of hopefully more Chris Pike. Gary Mitchell would be outstanding, yet, how do you do a movie about Gary without it being a retread? Only way I can think of is that it is THE Gary Mitchell from the prime universe…who somehow saved himself by going to this alternate universe, since it was there. Trelane could be done in a way that is totally different and not a retread, yet a tribute to the original PLUS Q. Who knows? My vote is for Koloth &/or Kor and the Klingons, although I get tried of Kilngons in Star Trek movies-lol I’m just thrilled it is NOT Khan, though. Too many people don’t know how to spell his name! lol

98. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


Yeah, you’re right, CmdrR! There is absolutely NO WAY Gary Mitchell could become a villain unless he is exposed to the energy barrier. No way!

99. Nanite - October 25, 2010

Read Q-Squared, Gary, Trelane and Q

100. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


As to why Spock Prime can’t help, I think we better stick with my “running a Hooters franchise” excuse! :>)

101. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

For instance, what if the sequel opens on the funeral of Spock Prime? What if they consecrate Talos IV as New Vulcan with Spock Prime’s ashes? Oh the irony!

102. Punkspoker - October 25, 2010

Karl urban looks like Gary Mitchell. 20 months of speculation… Bring it.

103. cugel the clever - October 25, 2010

The Talosians would be the easiest to work into the new Star Trek universe because, in theory, they could still be there trolling space to find a suitable human mate for their captive human. Only this time, instead of catching Pike, they’ll get Kirk. Would make an interesting twist on a good TOS episode, but not sure whether script so much like a TOS ep would be a good idea. Hopefully they’ll be more creative than that!

None of the others seem likely – Mudd is too much of a bufoon and comedian to truly be a villian, the Horta are actually good guys IMHO, with the timeline change I don’t see how the Gary Mitchell story could happen again, and using Trelane would make the movie seem like one of many eps of NextGen or VOY where Q appeared.

I think if they use a TOS villain, they should use the Gorn because they only appeared once in TOS and you could certainly write a plausible script where the new crew runs into them. Or the Doomsday device would be cool too.

104. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


Wow! Even willing to kill off the original Spock to prove your case!! That’s what I call commitment!!!!

To have this Talos IV story work, you’re even willing to have Spock Prime make an ASH of himself!


105. Joel - October 25, 2010

Regardless of who or what the villain is, it’s nice to see a steadier stream of sequel news. Rumors or not, keep it up!

106. BringBackTrek - October 25, 2010

I think the Talosians have great potential for giving us a character-driven movie with additional insight into their background.

@69: Why imagine this would be a remake of “The Cage”? Why can’t we have them using their powers to challenge various crewmembers (not just Pike or Kirk). I would love to see Simon Pegg as Scotty, Karl Urban as McCoy, etc. teaming up or individually taking on the Talosians. Pegg’s Scotty has a definite mischievous side. I don’t think the Talosians would know what to do with him. On the other hand, poor Spock would be like putty in their hands.

As to Pike’s physical condition in the next movie, I think the wheelchair was just a tip of the hat to the original series and that we’ll see Pike back in action in the next movie. Who knows? Maybe this time he’ll receive a distress call from the Enterprise and be the one trying to rescue those held captive on Talos IV. He was taken captive/tortured in Star Trek ’09 so he’s had his share.

107. Nanite - October 25, 2010

Since I’m not a fan of the last stories (alternate time line) I can’t imagine how much more damage could be done, except maybe if Cylon’s suddenly appeared. The first 1/3 of movie I found entertaining.

108. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Will Talosians target SPOCK with visions of his lost mother? Is T’Pring dead? With visions of T’Pring as well?

Who gets captured instead of Pike? Kirk? What female choices will he be given as mate? Uhura? T’Pring?

Or are Kirk and Spock BOTH captured, with Uhura selected by the Talosians as the mate for one?

Interesting playing these games…

109. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

104. Harry Ballz – October 25, 2010

Haha! I spare NO expense, Harry.

110. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


My motto is NO PRISONERS!

I’ve enjoyed our chat, dmduncan!

111. MJ - October 25, 2010

Picture Kirk screaming into his communicator at the key point in the movie:


112. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

110. Harry Ballz – October 25, 2010

Me too!

113. Q - October 25, 2010

I want the bad guy to be Trelane so bad! I love him. He’d make a wonderful villan! :D

114. Ralph F - October 25, 2010

They should call the next one Star Trek: Led Zeppelin, because it’s either going to sink like lead or soar like a Zeppelin. The notoriety of a remake is gone so it needs to move on its own merit, whether or not they borrow some TOS storyline elements or not.

What Orci and the others need to remember is what drove TOS is the friendship of Kirk-Spock-McCoy. The acting chops are there, put them to good use. The side story of Uhura/Spock is hit or miss, IMO. The supporting cast is great.

Lose the brewery.

115. somethoughts - October 25, 2010

So illusions would be vulcan is not destroyed, kirks dad is alive, spocks mom is alive, movie starts with uss columbia crashing, and talosians pit humans vs klingons to study both races. Kirk n kore work their way out of the maze

116. Phaser Guy - October 25, 2010

Lol, Badass news. Oh sure.

117. Felipe - October 25, 2010

Um, and why not a absolutely new villain for a new timeline ?
or the new timeline is only for making reboots of TOS?

118. Charley W - October 25, 2010

My guess is that this is a smokescreen to keep us guessing while they do something else- on the other hand, I’ve been fooled before.

Harry Mudd’s not likely to be the main ‘villian’, although he easily may be an instigator of the main story, helping to set it up. The Horta is/are too limited in scope to really be effective, and are most likely just a red herring. Gary Mitchell certainly has possibilities, especially since some of us complained about him not being included in the first movie. The problem with GM is that, unless they are REALLY going to change him, he’s not really a villian, and to make him such, as stated above, is too close to a remake. That leaves Trelaine and the Talosians, either of which could really make for rather interesting stories, especially if the writers play on the hypothesized Q/Trelaine connection. Regarding the Talosians, as I read the 2009 change of the timeline, the incidents of “The Menagerie” shouldn’t be altered to any great extent.

119. Ralph F - October 25, 2010

#118 — I thought the events of The Menagerie could not even be part of the lore in the changed universe, as Spock did not serve under Pike on the Enterprise for the years prior to Kirk’s ascent to command.

I sure wish someone’d map out the alternate timeline, insofar at least as to the events of ST ’09.

120. Daoud - October 25, 2010

Gary Mitchell *could* work, but he’d be a lot younger than a first officer to a young Kirk age… so where would he be? Ah-hah! He could be Captain Garth’s first officer. That would work…

And we’d still have Garth going insane, and Mitchell going superhuman somehow. Throw in Talosians, Klingons and a young Romulan spy (the future Romulan Commander) and I’m buying the popcorn for everyone. And sure, have a “Paging Harcourt Fenton Mudd, please proceed to Airlock Stella 500″ in the background only.

Age again, kinda rules out Trelane, although who knows with Godlike Q-like beings. Just this time GET THE RIGHT DAMN WIG! ;) (Huge inside joke for those who know the story!)

And whatever if they use Trelane and Klingons.. have the same actor portraying Trelane also portraying (under makeup) Koloth. We need great in-jokes like that!

@60 Why not the female Romulan Commander?

I think she’d be just way too young at this point in the timelines, but hell, The Great Bob is sketching away on his iPad one hot Romulan babe, so who knows!?!

121. Felipe - October 25, 2010

Three years and three writters for making only a reboot of an episode of TOS?
And were people complaining about Berman?

122. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010

It’s too bad, I know TPTB would never go for it, but wouldn’t it be wild if they cast Gary Lockwood in some role for the next flick? He’s still around and only 73! All the hardcore fans would go NUTS!

123. Jo Jo - October 25, 2010

Since I was a kid I’ve always thought Gary Mitchell + “WNMHGB” would be the most epic ST movie possible. That could be really perfect. Genuine sf with a compelling antagonist who pits the whole crew against him.

124. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 25, 2010

There are so many possibilitys. it could be Gary Mitchell or even Charlie Evens. trelane would be a good Villian and maybe at the end a surprise visit from Q himself. The Female Romulan Commander could make an apperence or the male Romulan Commander. Hey. Maybe the Male Riomulan Commander is actualy the Females Father. The Talos4 Planet would be a great destination as well. Lord Garth of izzar would be great as we can see that story and have Capt Garth now being Lord Garth try and take over the Bie and it takes the Trio to stop him.

125. fallynleaf - October 25, 2010


Actually, the female Romulan Commander is one of the oldest of the “dames of the hour”. I think she’d be an appropriate choice for the villain of the next reboot film.

And the sketch on the iPad is one of the reasons why I think that the female Romulan Commander is a good candidate for a rebooted villain.

126. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Lockwood would be awesome to have.

127. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


Mix well and it serves 6!

128. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 25, 2010

Hey Harry. it would be pretty cool to see Gary Lockwood in. Maybe have him play Mitchells Dad after Mitchell is stoped by Capt Kirk.

129. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010

Lockwood could play a renegade/nutty admiral!

130. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010

Lest we forget, Gary Lockwood starred in Kubrick’s 2001….he’s got acting chops!

131. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Or a Vulcan elder.

132. Tom1701 - October 25, 2010

Trelane would be an answer to the folks who wanted Q.

133. Captaingoesdownwiththeship - October 25, 2010

I gotta agree with bob. Everytime I think of the a good adversary it would be the Doomsday Machine. They never said it has to be a human being playing the villian. I think Harry Mudd would be good as a cameo, the guy with the tool necessary to fix the issue.

Or better yet Cerano Jones with Tribbles. I could see simon peggs scotty have a lot of humor with them taking over the ship.

134. Maguhn - October 25, 2010

Three names… Kang, Koloth and Kor….
’nuff said

135. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 25, 2010

Well. We could have Gary Mitchell be a God and he takes control of the Doomsday Machine to try and take over the Federation.

136. Jax Maxton - October 25, 2010

I could see some version with Gary Mitchell AND the Telosians. I really think the writers are going to have to make this Trek a trilogy because they aren’t going to be able to keep all the crew or JJ Abrams on board for more than 3. Thus, I could absolutely see them wrapping up the “alternate timeline” story in 3 movies. So you have Gary Mitchell join the crew and they discover the Talosians, who accidentally release Gary’s ESP power, like in TOS. He becomes MAD powerful and threatens to destroy the universe, but he sees the alternate timeline and what could have happened. Meanwhile, the Telosians see the humans as dangerous and there is some battle between Mitchell and Telosians with our heroes stuck in the middle realizing they must restore the timeline, thus the story for the 3rd movie comes from that.

Obviously I have no inside info, just presenting a way in which the sequel COULD work. I am more than likely 100% off. I still think, however, they need to resolve the “alternate timeline” story by the 3rd movie because many of these now “stars” will not want to return for a 4th movie.

137. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 25, 2010

#134. Yes. Hang,Koloth and Kor team up with Kirk to take on Gary Mitchell and the Doomsday Machine with Tom Hanks Playing Commodoe Decker. Woud be some good stuff there.

138. Gary Neumann - October 25, 2010

Quite simple…


139. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


What does God need with a Doomsday Machine? :>)

140. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 25, 2010

Gary Mitchell on a different Starship goes to the barrier and becomes a God Like Being. He then comes across the Doomsday machine and somehow takes over it and they come across the U.S.S Constalation under the command of Commodore Decker(Played by Tom Hanks) After a firece but Short Battle the Constalation is severly damaged but not all of the crew is Killed as Gary Mitchell takes some as prisner. Then the Enterprise comes in and it takes all of Capt Kirks Abilitys along with Spock and Mccoy along with Capt Pike to try and Stop Mitchell from taking over the Federation.

141. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 25, 2010

Harry. He uses it as his new Platform. Like Apolo did with his Temple. Till it was Destroyed by Kirk and Spock.

142. Felipe - October 25, 2010

I think, pals, the point is not the name of the villain…The point is if the new timeline is only for making reboots of TOS, no future for this timeline because it admits that can’t create anything absolutely new, new characters, species…
Only to change site the elements of TOS.

143. Trek Nerd Central - October 25, 2010

I’ve been angling for Trelane all along. He’d be a brilliant choice for several reasons, chief among them the fact that he crosses over to the Next Gen universe (if you accept Trelane as a proto-Q).

Also: He’s a very funny, foppish kind of boob — the kind who can turn threatening in an instant.

144. Chain of Command - October 25, 2010

GARY MITCHELL. If you’re going to pick one, that would be the best. Talosian’s would be a second. The others…..NO

145. Jax Maxton - October 25, 2010

I could envision a story where all 5 of those TOS characters are involved. Harry Mudd is on the Horta planet where he’s found their eggs and is working on selling them to Star Fleet. The Talosians show up to steal a Horta while the Enterprise is there working out an agreement with Mudd. While on the way to the Horta planet, Trelane shows up on the bridge to eff with Kirk and company. There’s lots of possibilties, and written properly, any of these characters are plausible.

146. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


Aw, Capt Mike, I was simply paraphrasing from that turdfest, ST:V Final Frontier!

147. Chain of Command - October 25, 2010

“Star Trek II-A Where no Man has gone before” LOL

Definitely would be cool to see Gary Mitchell (Yes I know I said it already). There is a lot of drama that could be done with that.

“Where no man has gone before” revamped would be a great way to go. The Enterprise on the rim of the galaxy, damaged from entering the rift. Kirks’ good friend slowly turning to the “dark side”. I can definitely see it.

Go for it, guys. Go for it!

148. The Keeper - October 25, 2010

I’d love if it were the Talosians for this reason; if Abrams, Orci, etc. want to delve deeper into the characters than the Talosians are perfect. They can craft whatever scenario they want and watch how the “specimens” respond. That would be downright humorous if done with McCoy. The Talosians are perfect for revealing character while Abrams and company wrap action around these tests. One group I haven’t seen mentioned are the Organinans although not strictly speaking villains I know.

149. Maguhn - October 25, 2010

I think Evil versions of the whales from ST IV hook up with the probe; who is actually an old roomate of the Talosians; and together they wreak havoc….*OMG is this what prolonged Red Bull exposure does to the mind???

150. Gary Neumann - October 25, 2010



KALOTHR-ASS!!! oh yeah!!!

151. Will H - October 25, 2010

Not gonna lie I’m bummed that it’s not going to be any of the TOS Klingons but I’m more relieved that they’re not doing Khan. Now I just have to pray that they don’t use Harry Mudd because I think that would be a complete disaster. As stated, he’s a comic relief, not a villain. I have hopes of Gary Mitchell but more the Talosians.

152. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 25, 2010

Actualy have the Doomsday Machine and the Probe come and work together or maybe have a big fight over or near Earth. Then all of a sudden. Here comes Veger.

153. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 25, 2010

Sorry Harry. I knew that but I did not think of that. The Green Orion Slave Girls have got me distracted again. or was that Erica Durence.

154. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Wonder who the actress in question was? Dichen Lachman would make a nice T’Pring:

155. Vedek Anon - October 25, 2010

Ok, I will brandish my own relatively modest two cents to this conversation.

First, couple of clarifications on previous posts –

Doomsday Machine (as Borg weapon) – this was done in the more recent novels detailing prime timeline history between Nemesis and Nero. Please refer to “Janeway, the Borg Queen” books for reference (cannot remember exact novels).

As for the Q and Trelane – don’t think that is gonna fly with the Supreme Court – going to stick with TOS elements only, so if using Trelane, he will just be a super-being of indeterminate origin and let those who fantasize about our great friend John DeLancie continue to fantasize.

Horta, I will agree is too limiting except in a referential sense. The idea someone had of opening sequence being shout-out to one of the original 79 eps – then they could be wrapping up their adventure with the Horta as the action of the movie begins – great small action sequence with Pine and Quinto running through tunnels yada yada yada.

As for Spock Prime not being on top of his game. Wouldn’t use his age or incompetence regarding relative positioning of Talos IV – This is a man who upon being resurrected calculated in his head necessary equations for slingshot time travel to have a ‘rustbucket’ Bird of Prey go get some whales. NOT a valid plot device.

Harcourt Fenton Mudd can work as B-Story and would a natural fit to be one of Scotties ‘friends’ like his oompa loompa (and would be truly funny if character was played by his co-star from Shaun of the Dead/Hot Fuzz – but not sure his acting chops are up to the task – but would be fun).

Agree that the KLINGONS are the elephant in the room, as so aptly put by one of the previous posters. They NEED to be bad guys – we can finally forget about the handcuffs known as the Organians!!! – Perfect intro scene, classic D-7 battlecruiser entering Federation Space and on its way to whatever nefarious deed that Kor, Kang (don’t care which one), they run across and blast apart dead looking ship Botany Bay and eliminates Khan from EVER being revisited in either universe.

Talosians in some respect with the Klingons being around, fighting, something would provide a lot of material for plot and character development fodder. Also, the Talosian characters have always been shown in a disproportionate amount to their relative importance in ST history. i.e. it is an alien species that non-Trek people might have seen at some point in time and associate it with ST.

Gary Mitchell, unless he and Finnegan were assigned to the Farragut and resent Captain “I don’t have to earn my own command” and want to get him – not seeing that as something of interest.

Sorry for long post – but if I were trying for the ultimate WTF start to the next movie, here’s my vote (and I KNOW this is never gonna happen, but Shatner can quote Peter Pan, so why not?). Intro, small craft approaches Enterprise, requesting permission to board. Cue transporter room – woman materializes with very large hat and cape covering most of her body except for the beagle she cradles in one arm and says to Kirk and Spock – “I know you don’t know me, but there is something wrong with the universe, and you need to fix it.” Cue opening bombastic music and GO…

The Vedek has mused enough for one evening. May the Prophets guide and protect you.

156. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Whoops. 154 was for the Bob Orci iPad thread, which I thought I was on.

157. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Page dementia setting in…

158. Daoud - October 25, 2010

@147 STAR TREK: THE WRATH OF GARY. Hmmm, sounds like an episode of Spongebob. SpongeBOB. OMG, that explains everything!

159. Chingatchgook - October 25, 2010

While part of me is curious as hell to know who it might be, the other part of me doesn’t want to know a thing until I’m sitting in the theatre, sharing a bag of popcorn with the GF. I think that option #2 might be more fun, lol.

160. Larraby - October 25, 2010

Obviously, the writers are a bunch of talentless hacks who wouldn’t know how to think up an original idea if their lives depended on it. Instead, they rape and pillage a theme that has already been created, probably ruining it in the process. How unbelievably lame and pathetic.

161. Battle-scarred Sciatica - October 25, 2010

Erica could be either Lursa or Btor’s Grandmammy.

Take that and shove your gold-pressed Latinum right where old Sol dost shineth not!

She probably wouldn’t need a whole lot of prosthetics

162. "Check the Circuit!" - October 25, 2010

Before we too excited….this could be a red herring. Maybe it’s true that we’ll see one of this “villians” in the movie. Question is, will it be in a substantial way? Or is it possible we’ll get a James Bond-ish opening teaser that is a kick-butt action scene bases on a TOS episode. Then we move on to the actual movie.

It’s too early for a real scoop…IMHO.

163. RoobyDoo - October 25, 2010

Given what we’ve heard so far, my guess would be Gary Mitchell. Kirk needs a deep emotional gouge, and I could see how a Mitchell story would provide that. Second pick would be Talosians, which as others have mentioned would provide a natural avenue for the return of Pike.

164. Vedek Anon - October 25, 2010

Oh, one last thing – remember in commentary from ST09 – Scene with Spock Prime explaining coincidences as to why people are running into one another – The universe is trying to put itself right and what we call fate will have some impact on the events to shape these characters’ lives.

So, writers have excuse/reason to re-visit at least part of the TOS universe but don’t have to keep anything except the background so there is a familarity for when they decide to play with it.

165. Gary Neumann, the WRATHFULL SEQUEL OF STAR TREK - October 25, 2010

I still dont see gary there, of course that would make my name something related with star trek, which would be AWESOME but no.

166. Green-Blooded-Bastard - October 25, 2010

How about we do away with all of this garbage and come up with something new and inspired like Nero was. I hate the rehashing of anything form the original series, or any series for that matter. I wouldn’t mind Klingons as they are all over the place and are a staple of the Star Trek universe, but Harry Mudd? Really? Horta? Are we really going to revolve an entire 2 hour movie around something that can barely be taken in 15 minute doses? Talosians are easy enough to deal with, it’s called orbital bombardment. Hell, why waste ammo even, their bodies can just be transported into space. Done.

Orci…you guys hit a home run with the ORIGINAL story that was IX, lets strike gold again with X and an original Orci/Kurtzman story. Only one film and you guys are already looking to TOS for ideas? C’mon man.

167. drew - October 25, 2010

Until i see something ‘official’ from either Paramount, Bob, JJ or Alex, i’m treating this ‘rumor’ as complete BS.

168. BuckyJedi - October 25, 2010

Gary Mitchel could work but pointing out he was nowhere to be seen in the first movie is a bit of a problem. However, it should be noted there are TWO God-like villains on here: Trelane and Gary. Seems as if one is covering for the real identity other. Hell, three if you count the Talosians who are basically God-like. So I get the feeling it’ll be a bit TOS in spirit with the puny Enterprise vs. someone with crazy magic powers.

169. Jax Maxton - October 25, 2010

#160 You basically described ALL reboots. They are unoriginal by their very definition. Heck, you can make the argument that “Dark Knight” was a re-imagining of 1989’s Batman, which was a re-imagining of the 60s TV show, an all of which are based on a comic book. Yeah, they’re unoriginal, but ST09 was a lot of fun, so I hope the next one is equally as fun.

170. Jae - October 25, 2010

John De Lancy as Trelane, mark my words!

171. Chris Doohan - October 25, 2010

One, or all of them combined?

It’s going to be Mr. Tremuddchellhortasian

172. Hat Rick - October 25, 2010


173. Hugh Hoyland - October 25, 2010

From what I understand, this is rumor, so I’ll take it as such. Although, even if I knew the entire story from start to finish I would still go see this movie, so it makes no diff to me lol Also Im totally for any TOS villian (including Khan) to be in it, creepy Talosians! now we’re talking. :]

174. Robert H. - October 25, 2010

If rumours are true, I am hoping for Harry Mudd. And thank god there is no Khan on this.

175. LeviTinker - October 25, 2010

I still would perfer to see Kang or Koloth, but if its between this list then definately think the Talosians followed by Gary Mitchell are the best choices for a antagonist in the next film.
The Talosians just cause it would hopefully mean that we will get more pike in the next film. But Gary Mitchell would be a good choice as well.

I think Trelane would (for me atleast anyways) underscore how much it sucks we never got to see Q in a STTNG movie.

176. LeviTinker - October 25, 2010

I also think that if they wanted to find a way to work shatner in, they should remake the episode the Deadly years, they could have shatner play the aged kirk. heck they could have cameos from any of the surviving cast members if they remade the deadly years, and not have to worry about the audience being taken out of the movie.

177. Larraby - October 25, 2010

#160 – It seems that all Hollywood can do these days is churn out remakes and reboots ad nauseum. What ever happened to originality? It takes hard work and imagination to come up with a new and never before seen villain, compelling storyline, etc. yet the writers/creators are relying on what has already been done as if they lack and talent or motivation.

178. DaveK69 - October 25, 2010


6 to 10 webisodes that are maybe 5 to 10 minutes long. Begin them during the summer of 2011 and lead it into summer 2012. Bob Orci, please give us something to hold us over for the next 20 months.

Surely we can all agree on this.

179. LeviTinker - October 25, 2010

If they did the Male Romulan Commander like someone else mentioned they could always cast Ben Cross in the part, then Ben cross could be just like Mark Leonard Having Played Sarek and the Romulan Commander.

180. LeviTinker - October 25, 2010

Message # 160 you do realize the writers of the movie read these forums on this website right?

181. The Riddler - October 25, 2010

None of these excit me.

Khan did. It would excite the general public also.

And since when has Team JJ agreed with most Trek fans? If it were true Shatner would have been in the last movie and everything would be following Canon to the letter.

182. Chadwick - October 25, 2010

“and that Khan is not the best choice for their second film. ” Yea and neither are the ones mentioned above.

But if I HAD to pick then Trelane or Talosian…probably Talosians with a hint of Klingons. We have only really seen Talosians in the pilot or menagerie, Talos IV is off limits, could make a good movie. Could do some great visual effects with beings that had mind controls. Maybe not just illusion but manipulate objects the way magneto manipulates metals.

183. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Another reason it makes sense to revisit the Talosians is because The Cage was the failed pilot of Star Trek. It doesn’t make my list of best Trek episodes either, and I rarely see it mentioned as other people’s favorites. So it’s probably in that group of least polemical ideas to revisit.

184. FarStrider - October 25, 2010

At this point in the process for the last movie, how many of the rumors turned out to be true? . . . Pretty much none. . . these people know how to keep secrets. . .and until something comes from a credible source, ie. the Supreme Court. . . why even listen?


185. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Maybe it’s a true rumor, and they’re testing fan reaction because they know they’ll get it on all the ideas mentioned, but only they will know which one is seriously being considered.

So they get fan feedback without tipping their hand, and if they scrap them all, only they will be the wiser.

If you’re gonna write for Captain Kirk, you have to be able to think like Captain Kirk.

186. Mel - October 25, 2010

I am still hoping for the Gorn. There could be a big military conflict and Kirk and crew manage to create peace somehow.

Trelane could be also interesting.

And I love to see a Horta! Not as a villain, but as crew member of the Enterprise. It would be cool seeing a Horta on the Enterprise. In one of the Star Trek books, they had a Horta crew member, which was really nice.

187. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

And the Talosians can give you anything. Even William Shatner.

188. Weerd1 - October 25, 2010

I vote Mitchell: he doesn’t have to become a god to go bad…

189. Trip - October 25, 2010

If the source is telling the truth, I’m thinking they are intentionally feeding him bad info. Please not Trelane or any Q. I want some Klingons!

190. Dr. Image - October 25, 2010

Use the first Klingon- Kor!! Please!!!
And NONE on the list make sense. It’s BS.
And Phase II is doing Mudd.

191. Jason - October 25, 2010

I wasn’t expecting it to be Khan. Wrath of Khan is a classic and I don’t think Abrams and crew would want to risk it. Also, Nick Meyer is friends with Abrams, and in my opinion is the frontrunner to direct if Abrams decides not to, and I have a feeling he had something to do with the decision not to feature Khan again.

As to who I would like to see, my top choice would be to have the Klingons back, since we haven’t had them as the main bad guys since VI, 21 years before this one. But from the list, I think there’s a good chance it would be the Talosians, I just have a feeling they have a way to reintroduce them in a cool way, like they did with the Romulans on the last one.

192. dmduncan - October 25, 2010

Bob, you have to read Hancock’s Supernatural. If you used MWI for the first movie, Talosians would be the perfect opportunity to put questions about the nature of reality in the DNA of a movie about Talosians, who may be able to control the shape of consensus reality via deep understanding of digital physics. Is Talos IV really where they live? Or is that an illusion too?

193. Thorny - October 25, 2010

Why retell “The Cage”? Because I don’t see any other story working. For all intents and purposes the Talosians are invincible (“they can squash us like a bug”) Same problem as Trelane. How do you defeat them? The only choice is to not fight, which is what Pike ended up doing.

I don’t mind Khan in a later movie, but I want the new cast to stand on their own in this one, no Nimoy, no Shatner, no “Joker”. I’d rather not see a “villain” at all. Make it something non-human or natural a’la “Operation Annihilate!”, “Immunity Syndrome”, “Doomsday Machine”, or “Galileo Seven”. Let the cast really grow into their roles and make them their own. That will be hard to do in a movie overshadowed by a super-villain like “Dark Knight”.

I do like the idea that’s been kicked around here from time to time of the movie opening with the re-enactment of the climax of one famous episode and then ending with the Enterprise coming across the Botany Bay.

194. BeatleJWOL - October 25, 2010

trelane trelane trelane trelane trelane plsthx. but who would play him?

195. CarlG - October 25, 2010

@194: John Simm, maybe? I thought “psycho, man-child, British”, and he was the first guy that came to mind.

Rat-tat-tat-tat, Rat-tat-tat-tat…. >:)

Seriously, though, I’m hoping for Klingons. Any of the original three would do. Preferably as a worthy opponent / magnificent bastard type rather than an ax crazy psycho.
Besides, Trek without Klingons is like cookies without milk.

196. gingerly - October 25, 2010

LOL. I don’t doubt that any one or more of these characters could make an appearance (Grunny for Mudd!) but they won’t be the main villian. Heck we don’t even know if there will be a villian.

That said, of those listed the Talosians are the ones I’d be most curious about seeing rebooted.

197. Daoud - October 25, 2010

@194. Eddie Izzard as Trelane works for me. Plus would put butts in seats.

198. Cygnus-X1 - October 25, 2010

My suspicion is that it’s going to be the Talosian, in response to the years of petitioning for an openly gay character.

199. Gorn Captain - October 25, 2010

I say it will be Mitchell. And I don’t think he’ll become super powered. I think he’ll kind of be a foil for Kirk, on another ship leading a mutiny or something. Then him and Kirk will face off. I’m betting Klingons are involved too. Maybe the after credit scene will have Mitchell still being alive and obtaining powers.

200. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010

200 posts already? Suh-weet!

201. spooky - October 25, 2010

I had thought that it was already mentioned in another thread by one of the writers that they are moving away from the villain versus the crew formula?! If they are sticking to that formula well then I would prefer to see something truly alien, a revised Tholian or Gorn. Yes we have seen them on Enterprise but I would like to see these guys in a feature film in some capacity. I am sick of Vulcans, Romulans, and Klingons. Let us see those underappreciated species. I want to see their worlds and how they thrive in the universe. It would be mighty interesting to see all that and more. I also think that a story revolving around the Andorians would be very fun especially since the Enterprise timeline seems to be the only one in tune with this new universe. C’mon Bob et all… let’s see some Andorians, or Tholians, or Gorn involved in the story somehow. They are alien enough and interesting. Not much has been invested into their stories and I think it is about time that someone did that. : )

202. Sebastian - October 25, 2010

Talosians would be great. New FX would make their ‘illusions’ that much more convincing, too.
Gary Mitchell would be equally great (as a friend and as a villain).
Wouldn’t mind the Horta either, but please for the love of god;
DON’T let it be Harry Mudd or Trelane!!

When I was a kid, and saw that it was a Harry Mudd episode on?
I’d usually change the channel. As I got older, he was merely tolerable at best. But I still loathe him as a character.

Trelane was a step up, but still obnoxious as hell.
Any attempt to do ‘camp’ or ‘silly’ so early in the new movie franchise would be suicide.

203. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010


don’t EVER do camp or silly. Please.

204. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - October 25, 2010

This iis good news, no? At least for those not wishing to see another “typical” villian. Perhaps the powers that be are listening.

205. tman - October 25, 2010

I don’t think the Telosians would make sense. It would be a distraction to show a happy ending for Pike and the Telosians happened much earlier…

If you’re trying to go for a mystery, it’s not a good idea to use characters where the mystery is already understood.

Harry Mudd could however be a badguy and could bring about consequences well beyond his intents. The way he was presented as a clown in the show, the reality is he was a greedy guy out for himself and reckless. The damage a person like that can inflict can be as significant or more than a Khan who has a big vision, especially when they are someone others take for granted or underestimate. I think of Treasures of the Sierra Madre, the “help” in the opening scenes of Raiders of the Lost Ark, lots of characters like that in film… I don’t think he’d be the only villain though unless it’s man against nature or some such. Would love to have Klingons. I suspect they’re kind of a given. Burger King was even using them to market in the first film. It’s inevitable. Just a question of the ridges…

206. Anthony Pascale - October 25, 2010


warning for flaming. Find a way to voice opinions without insults and getting personal

207. ScottH - October 25, 2010

What about Kang (remember the Klingon’s)???!!!

208. James - October 25, 2010

The Tholians maybe?

Still sure it will be the Doomsday Machine.

209. cd - October 25, 2010

Not greatly inspired by these possibilities, especially Trelane. Q was annoying in TNG, we don’t need anything similar. Harry Mudd, maybe (they would have to get someone really good, not IMO Greg Grunberg (sorry)). Talosians, maybe. But I don’t how they can do that without making it Pike’s movie, and we have already seen the Menagerie. Gary Mitchell: it would feel false and just plugged in. If they were going to do that, he should have been in ST09.
I really would like to see Klingons: Kang, Kor, and/or Koloth. My choice is Errand of Mercy with dashes of Balance of Terror and Day of the Dove and Carol Marcus thrown in. Make it a situation where Kirk has to work with the Klingons to resolve a bigger problem.
They blew up Vulcan, show the consequences of that: Klingons and Romulans seeing a weakened Federation they can attack. Romulans using the Klingons to attack and get killed while they hang back, and then the Klingons discover (with Kirk and crew’s help, of course) that the Romulans are just using them and plan to invade the Klingon Empire too. Who knows? There is a lot of potential in this new universe, but the potential characters listed the article are not that inspiring.
But maybe they can do something original with them. Maybe.

210. cd - October 25, 2010

But at least Khan is not on the list. >;>}

211. Red Dead Ryan - October 25, 2010

Gorn. We haven’t seen much of them plus they’d be a hit with the kids. Could help sell merchandise. Something the Star Trek franchise needs help with desperately.

212. Harry Ballz - October 25, 2010

…and at least this time they have a sufficient budget so that we won’t see a zipper up the Gorn’s back!

213. Bucky - October 25, 2010

I say this is real because Boborci hasn’t said it’s BS yet. Seems like he’d to that if it was.

214. funkylovemonkey - October 25, 2010

Gary Mitchell would work as far as the timeline goes because Kirk was actually a bit older the Gary when they met. If you remember Kirk was a Lt. working as an instructor at the academy when he first met Gary Mitchell as one of his Cadets. However it seems fairly self-defeating since Kirk skips over that period of his life in this timeline so he wouldn’t have the opportunity to meet Gary… and then you would pretty much lose out on the best part of that story, that Kirk is forced to fight and kill his best friend.

The other names on the list fill me with dread. Good episodes, horrible movies. Well, some of them were good episodes. Harry Mudd is terrible…

I’m hoping this is a rumor. The last rumor I heard the script didn’t sound like it had been finalized, and I’m not sure what sources would have seen the script at this point outside the inner circle yet.

215. braxus - October 25, 2010

Im hoping its Trelane. I can see the possibilities with his character. The situations he could put the crew into and the god like character he could be. The possibilities with him are endless and it would give the writing team the freedom to have the characters go through what ever they could dream up. Being a child like character makes it even more fun. Plus his character is under tapped and so much more could be written about him. I can’t see it being Gary because it doesn’t fit in this new universe and his type of character has been written before in ST movies.

216. jas_montreal - October 26, 2010

I really feel as though their missing something big here. They have an opportunity to introduce the non-trek fans with the greatest trek villain that could give kirk a run for his money in the trek sequel. It would be pretty bad-ass.

Lets hope it works out. Lets hope its not Iron Man 2 revisited. Where the villain felt more like an obstacle for Tony Stark, rather then actual part of the story-chemistry.

217. Khan was Framed! - October 26, 2010

Mudd all the way!

218. Goraxus - October 26, 2010

God I hope it’s not Harry mudd or the Horta. Mudd is a one dimensional comical throwaway character that would make a terrible villain. The Horta is a rock. What drama.

Personally I’m holding out hope it’s khan.

219. Scioto - October 26, 2010

What about Charlie X?

220. trekprincess - October 26, 2010

How about Trelane a baby god sounds cool or maybe Gary Mitchell oh choices, choices

221. trekprincess - October 26, 2010

136. I think that would be a great idea

222. Chris Pike - October 26, 2010

Talosians do make sense as the last movie would be some time before the Cage era alt universe, the alt timeline events placing Kirk in commeand far earlier this time. Would be good to see design ideas closer maybe to The Cage, the ship having undergone minor refit and overcoming design problems in first film.

223. Jack2211 - October 26, 2010

Hmm, a Talosian plot doesn’t seem like something that would appeal to the kids, and the god-like alien has really been overdone (in the first season of TOS alone). It just seems like there are pretty limited plot possibilities with both of those, but I’d be thrilled to be proven wrong.

Gary Mitchell, as just a character, not as the God-villain, might be interesting.

Is anyone gay enough to play Harry Mudd, and I say this as both a gay guy and a fan of the character…

224. AJ - October 26, 2010

Horta: Native to Janus VI, which is populated by tough guys from Brooklyn all living undreground. Not much there for a movie

Trelane: We know he’s a child-God-thing, and how Kirk defeats him. It’d be boring to sit through two hours as Kirk and Spock figure it out all over again.

Harry Mudd: I join the echo chamber here that he is simply comic relief, and never posed a threat.

Gary Mitchell: Possible and desirable: He could’ve gone across the barrier in another ship. Yet, if we no longer have the dynamic of him and Kirk as BFFs, it takes something away from the the tragedy of Kirk having to destroy him.

Talosians: Possible, and the best of all: All purpose telepathic aliens to create fantasy scenarios for all our characters. They could also fit into a Pike storyline, though in ‘The Cage,’ he and the E left Talos IV intact.

Lindelof said, ‘it’s not about the villain, and certainly, Mitchell and the Talosians present possible scenarios which fit that statement to a tee.

225. Dan155 - October 26, 2010

Let’s not forget that details of the last movie were leaked before it was released. When the rumour was about bald time travelling Romulans and a squid like ship everybody was like ‘wtf’.

226. wickedjacob - October 26, 2010

“When the movie premiered and it was about bald time travelling Romulans and a squid like ship everybody was like ‘wtf’.”

(I kid! sort of.)

227. Denny - October 26, 2010

alot of problems are going to be caused through Spock Primes knowledge ‘guiding’ the Federation – i.e. why dosnt he just warn them of Khan, Vger, any number of stuff etc etc

im sensing that we’ll hear of Spock Primes death (off camera) in the sequel – like Sarek in Unification II

228. G - October 26, 2010

Hmmmm, I think we’re being set up! Drop a few villain names in the rumor pool, and then Bob Orci can come here and read all our responses to see what’s popular? LOL j/k :)

Horta don’t “talk”, and they’re not evil, so cancel that idea.
Harry Mudd = LAME

Gary Mitchell.. very interesting character, and that COULD offer a lot of scope to the movie, if he were on another starship.. (Enterprise/Reliant-type scenario?). But, as was previously posted on here, Mitchell wasn’t set up in the previous movie, so there’s no real sense of loss/drama for the audience between him and Kirk if Mitchell were to “turn evil”.

Talosians are connected to Pike’s destiny. But, not connected to Kirk in any way, really.

I think it’s all rumor.

229. Denny - October 26, 2010

136 – sounds like Inception mixed with the Phoenix from X3

230. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

Spock Prime’s knowledge only goes so far.

Spock Prime = (somewhat, at least) Hari Seldon (Asimov’s Foundation series).

I hope the writers consider the vast possibilities that exist, including my own very humble suggestions regarding an intragalactic pursuit involving intrigue and gigantic space battles (Kirk pursues Pike pursuing a disappeared fleet, as noted — and now: Disappeared as a result of Talosian influence, perhaps?)

Timelines converge, which is why Pike, in the new universe, is involved in Talosian affairs as he was in the Prime Universe.

Would this work, or what? (Yes, I think it would.)

Am I psychic, or what? (No, but it’s interesting to thing about.)

231. Denny - October 26, 2010

if they were to reset the timeline at the end of the 3rd film heres how it could be done:

the heavily damaged Enterprise is in its final battle with Khan (discovered at the end of the previous movie) and his army of renegade Klingon followers led by Commander Kruge. Alone, with what was left of the crew evacuated and his bridge crew dead, Captain Kirk in a final act of desperation puts the ship on auto destruct and sets the ‘Genesis II’ carrying enterprise at the centre of a nearby nebula – on the burning bridge he fires all weapons at the armada of ships closing in as onscreen he watches the shuttle pod carrying Carol and infant son David escape to safety….as the enterprise destroys Kruge’s bird of prey, Kirk sets a collision course with Khans stolen Federation ship which has followed the enterprise into the nebula and diverts all remaining power to foward phasers….Khans chilling voice is heard on speakers goading Kirk as he sits in the command chair for the final time….and then, as he prepares to launch into a big ‘KHHAAAAAN!!’ yell and just before everything is about to go kaboom, the burned, bloodied, shirt ripped Kirk starts to hear a overpowering loud noise like a shuttle landing and what sounds like Bones shouting ‘Get that damn light outta my face!’….cut to:

Kirk (CG 1989 William Shatner) awaking horribly hungover in his sleeping bag, empty bottle of Romulan Ale and a copy of Quantum Mechanics Monthly near the campfire along with a bag of half eaten dodgy marsh ‘mellons’ (hey dream movies are cool now)

232. G - October 26, 2010

@ 227. Denny – October 26, 2010

im sensing that we’ll hear of Spock Primes death (off camera) in the sequel – like Sarek in Unification II

No WAY would they do that, after previous Star Trek writers wrote themselves into a corner with Kirk’s death!!! LOL Orci & Kurtzman know better! LOL

233. Øystein Håvard Færder - October 26, 2010


234. Javier_UK - October 26, 2010

I got a better idea…

How about they think about a NEW villain?Why go back to something that has already been done?

How about seeking out new worlds and new civilisations???

235. Crypter Crypter Crypter - October 26, 2010

I always said Karl Urban resembles Gary Lockwood more!

I agree that there would be little “payoff” if its Gary Mitchell, but that would make for the best villain for this new universe! Mitchell should have had a spot in the 2009 film, but the cast was already pretty crowded! So…

My money is on Harry Mudd!

236. Vlatko Mrsen Krsteski - October 26, 2010

i think the villain will be the Gorn..

237. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

Rumor upon rumor….

Mitchell + Talosians = Sequel?


238. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

231, a cameo by Patrick Duffy?

Google: “Dallas dream ending.”

239. D for me - October 26, 2010

And so it begins….. I can’t wait.

240. CGren123 - October 26, 2010

Are we forgetting…Kang, Kor and Koloth all made decent villains? Well, Koloth was definately a comic relief Klingon, but imagine the three of them together, just like in the Prime Timeline!

241. Don Mallery - October 26, 2010

I did not like Chris Pine as James T. Kirk. All the other actors got deep into the personalities of their characters, but Chris Pine arrogantly played HIMSELF as James T. Kirk instead of playing the actual character. He waited until the end of the movie and played a few seconds of James T. Kirk’s personality as if granting us a BLESSING. I think Chris Pine’s stubbornness in not capturing the essence of James T. Kirk during the movie diminished the role and affected fans’ reactions to the movie as a whole. All the other characters/actors meshed well, but Chris Pine was off to himself doing what he wanted to do and not blending well with the others. It would have been so much better had someone ELSE played the role. I think Chris Pine should be REPLACED as James T. Kirk. I don’t think he will be missed as that character. In fact, I think it will improve the response of the fans for the next movie if Chris Pine is replaced in it. An actor should be chosen who will appreciate/respect the shoes he is stepping into. Quinto was EXCELLENT as young Spock.

242. RoobyDoo - October 26, 2010

Perhaps Mitchell is peeved about Kirk’s instance captaincy. He worked hard at the Academy, was first in his class, etc. Then is assigned to the Enterprise under Kirk… Sounds like a pretty good setup. Maybe he has eyes for Uhura as well.

243. Paul B. - October 26, 2010

241 — I couldn’t disagree more. It sounds like you have a personal grudge against Pine, based on the almost stream-of-consciousness complaints.

Pine refused to play SHATNER, but he played the character of KIRK just fine. (At least in this fan’s opinion, and I’ve been watching Trek since the early 1970s.)

Almost every fan I know–and literally every fan I know IRL–loved Pine as Kirk. He is brash, cocky, full of himself, and yet still the most commanding person (except for Pike) in every scene. In fact, I think Pine’s Kirk held up next to Pike rather well.

Maybe you know Pine personally or something, since I don’t know how you could claim to know what Pine “HIMSELF” is like. I’ve seen Pine in interviews and in other roles, and he is NOT the same person he played as Kirk–at least, no more than Shatner’s personality bled over into the character.

Wait a minute! Is “Don Mallery” really just Shatner posting under a nickname? That would explain it! :)

244. Ironhyde - October 26, 2010

I think they should use Harry Mudd and give him a bit of a make-over. Like Tim Burton’s Joker versus Christopher Nolan’s. Harry Mudd would make a fantastic opponent based on the idea behind him… it’s really just the goofy characterization that needs to be updated. I couldn’t stand his episodes in TOS. Make him slicker, more like the Stainless Steel Rat — and I will be all over that!!

245. keenan - October 26, 2010

I really hate to see the Khan thing die. He could really be fleshed out on the big screen in ways they just couldn’t on the TV show. He could have somehow allied himself with the Klingon’s, but I would have liked to have seen him steal the Enterprise and attack some Klingon’s for whatever reason. It really could have set up for an all out Klingon/Federation conflict like we have never seen in a third film. Besides Kirk could have still marooned him on Ceti Alpha..whatever.. and the events in the Wrath of Khan would still unfold. Putting Khan in could make Star Trek 2 even better because we could really see what a monster Khan was.
The Talosian’s could be cool to see but I just don’t see a full length feature film being supported by them as villains. It could be a cool way to bring in the Prime Kirk and Pike, but I just don’t see it. The whole movie would be about mind games and that just seems boring. It was good for a TV episode but it would not translate well onto the “big screen.” Lets not forget Insurrection and Nemesis.
The whole Q thing might be interesting, but again, how can a whole movie be held up by a villain who can change the rules or the Universe at will. The last movie already covered time travel and “changing the rules” and it did it very well. I think this would be a mistake like bringing in the TNG folks for the Enterprise finale.
Harry Mud- I wouldn’t even waste the time or money to go and see it.
Mitchell- The second film needs to show Kirk, Spock, and McCoy becoming the pal’s they were in the originals. Having a “new” friend come in is just a bad, bad, bad idea.
Romulan’s and Klingon’s could still be the best choices for villains if Khan is out. There is a lot of potential there for conflict and friendship. I really hope they bring in Carol Marcus at some point in the film since I don’t ever recall her being in the TV show; it would be a nice way to tie the old in with the new. I would love to see the Gorn, Tholians, and Andorians somewhere in the mix as well in this new film.
I would like to see Spock Prime again and I really think he could have fit very well into a Khan story and would have given him a great opportunity to die..again. I just don’t want a cheap good bye to Spock Prime where Kirk and Spock go to see him. At that point leave it alone. If you have to kill off the Spock Prime character then have him send the new Spock a good bye hologram, perhaps the James T Kirk hologram from the scene considered for the first film….

246. cdp - October 26, 2010

Don’t give up on Chris Pine as Kirk just yet. The movie was written i such a way as to bring him on a journey to becoming the Kirk we all know and love. Yes your right we do see hints of that Kirk at the very end of the movie but its the journey to becoming that Kirk that the first movie was all about so I think you may like him in the second movie better. Unless you personally know Chris Pine I don’t see how you can call him stubborn. He is a great actor and works with the script that he is given. We all have are opinions but I think he did a fine job as Kirk and there should be no need for personal attack.

247. pock speared - October 26, 2010

well, why not a league of extraordinary bad guys? “gonzo” harry mudd (pilot), “badass” gary mitchell (soldier of fortune), “cuckoo” buck trelane (weapons specialist), “big head” tom talosian (mastermind), and hans horta (engineer and plucky comic relief: “no shit i!”) steal the botany bay and wreak havoc on the universe. hilarity ensues.

248. trekprincess - October 26, 2010

why all this hate towards Chris Pine I loved him in the first movie and looking forward to where he takes his Kirk in the sequel

249. David B - October 26, 2010

Please not Harry Mudd, for crying out loud if they use Mudd change the damn thing to Star Fuzz and leave Star Trek alone.

Gary Mitchell and the Talosians could work. You could even have Shatner in it then as a version of Kirk made old and then reverted back to Chris Pine to stay as a copy on the planet thanks to the Talosians

Even the Horta could work but not Mudd or Trelane for god’s sake.

I don’t want anymore stupidity in the new Star Trek films there is quite enough in Star Trek 2009 as it is without these two idiots villains!

250. Kirk, James T. - October 26, 2010

if Gary Mitchell is in Star Trek 2 then i would think that Tom Cruise must be in the running for that role – it’ll up the A-lister credibility to the global market. Tom Cruise is hugely popular in Asian markets too, especially Japan and as long as it’s not just Gary Mitchell but includes the Klingon Empire then wopau! excellent!

251. G - October 26, 2010

Just read an interesting article (on the same topic) on another website. The author had an interesting theory.. that it will be both the Talosians, AND Gary Mitchell (Star Trek had 2 pilots.. The Talosians in the 1st, and Gary Mitchell was in the 2nd pilot). So, they would be blending the 2 separate incidents from the original timeline, into one single incident in the new timeline.

I thought the theory was interesting. I kind of like it.

252. VZX - October 26, 2010

Harry Mudd (as breif cameo), T’Pring, and Klingons.

I’m sure of it.

253. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

Actually, Talosians aren’t villains either. They’re more like progressives: They think they know what’s best, try to make everyone live in cages, distract us from the bars with dazzling illusions, and then are shocked to discover our unwillingess to live that way.

Of course I tease…

Sooo sensitive…

With the power of illusion you can explore so many “what ifs” too. What if Spock Prime didn’t cause the universes to split? What would Kirk’s life be like today?

It could get Dickensian, with a Christmas Carol type exploration of the illusions we confuse ourselves with…

Also some risks, though. There’s a risk, for instance, that the movie will feel smaller if much of the big budget elements involve illusions, because within the world of the movie they WILL be. So if the scope of the movie comes from those illusions, then the scope of the movie might also seem illusory.

It might also create a feeling of being cheated if the coolest parts of the movie aren’t real in the context of the movie.

Hey, not knocking the idea. Just trying to imagine some potential hazards.

I like the idea of Talosians.

254. somethoughts - October 26, 2010

Talosians will work, what is reality?

Stuff of epic sci fi

255. Bradley1701 - October 26, 2010

Talosians would be cool.

Kang or Koloth would be cool too.

256. somethoughts - October 26, 2010

Instead of dark knight, give us inception :)

Mind fuk us bob

257. Aurore - October 26, 2010

But, do it “tenderly” please.

258. John Gill - October 26, 2010

Gawd, PLEASE let it be Gary Mitchel or The Talosians…

259. LutherSloan - October 26, 2010

Sorry, but all except the Talosian are poor villian. I want another villain.

260. Norbert Steinert - October 26, 2010

All crap but Gary Mitchell. I like to see Kor or/and the Romulan Commander from BoT.

261. Thorny - October 26, 2010

197… Eddie Izzard will get butts in seats? I must have missed that “Across the Universe” was a smash hit.

250… Ugh, please no Tom Cruise. Besides, he’s too old to play Mitchell (who’s younger than Kirk.) If it is Mitchell, will we get Dr. Dehner, too?

256… What was so mind-blowing about Inception? A dream within a dream? “First Contact” did that 14 years ago and wasn’t even close to the first. We’ve had people invading dreams at least since “Nightmare on Elm Street”. I liked Inception okay (a lot better than unoriginal, badly acted, all-effects “Avatar”), but the plot was very convoluted and got sillier as it went along.

262. VulcanFilmCritic - October 26, 2010

Harcourt Fenton Mudd!!!!! We live in an age of swindlers, and although Mudd was something of a joke back in the 1960’s, he’s not so funny now. Con men are not lovable now. When you think of the pain that guys like Bernie Madoff have inflicted on the lives of others, you realize what villains, these guys can be.

I couldn’t help but notice that the brilliant Tyler Perry was kind of wasted in “Star Trek” appearing only briefly as Admiral Barnett. If anyone was born to play Mudd, it’s Tyler Perry! I was not much of a fan, thinking that he was kind of a “chicken circuit” comic until I saw him in “I Can Do Bad All By Myself.” He is brilliant as a character actor, and would make a splendid over-the -top Mudd, who just happens to be a dead ringer for the admiral. Hmmmmmm…the possibilities for mischief are endless.

263. somethoughts - October 26, 2010


Inception worked as the movie itself is a maze and the ending is open to interpretation. Anytime you can watch a movie 3+times and enjoy it, imo is a great movie.

SPOILER: My interpretation was that it was about a guy and his wife who got lost in dream sharing technology and his wife realized they were deep in layers of dreams and “suicided” to rejoin the real world. His wife Mal is trying to wake up Cobb through inception, planting the idea to dissolve the dream (Dissolve Cobbal Engineering).

Leo’s character Cobb was so convinced the reality he was in was real that he really believed his wife killed herself. Cobb continued to dream and make sense of her death in a series of dreams, creating, “Cobbal enginnering” and having faceless corporate hitman trying to kill him. Cobb’s goal was to get home to his kids, a thought planted by his wife in the real world, trying to wake him up. Mal disguises herself as Sato to plant the idea for Cobb to dissolve Cobbal Engineering (dissolve his dream and wake up and come back to her and their children).

Once the mission is finished at the end, Cobb can choose to wake up to Mal and their children as his final mission is over.

That is my interpretation and sticking with it, that is why I think Inception is so great, because it makes people debate and share their points of views and ideas, hours, days, weeks after they finished watching the movie.

Inception is more than a dream within a dream, it makes you question the reality of the characters and decide on the ending that suits your interpretation of the movie.

264. somethoughts - October 26, 2010

I vote William Shatner to play the lead role as a Talosian or Mudd :)

I kid.

265. ensign joe - October 26, 2010

No Khan? Sweet!

Now just spackle up those plot holes, show more Enterprise, lose the emote-a-Spock and we might have ourselves a winner..

266. ngl;sdb;ga - October 26, 2010

Jeffrey Combs needs to play Trelane

267. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

How would you make Star Wars a pretty awful franchise?

Answer: Make Jar Jar Binks the main villain.

How would you make Star Trek a less amazing franchise?

Answer: Make a purely comic foil the main villain. (That, or a “Cousin Oliver” move (the young prodigy Wesley Crusher as the heavy).)


268. somethoughts - October 26, 2010


Whenever I tell people that have seen Inception my interpretation of it, they say, ‘WOW WHAT A MIND FUK” that is why Inception is so mind blowing.

Go back and watch it, and look for the clues, all the rules are laid out in the movie.

269. janice - October 26, 2010


I certainly agree with your last bit about Pike.

I’d go with the Talosians because that would hopefully mean more Pike–and Pike is what I want to see most of all.
I would hope he’d be out of the wheelchair but I certainly wouldn’t want the same fate for Pike as in the Menagerie!! I want to see much better than that for Pike. A hero would be great but no doubt that would be asking for too much! And I want him alive and unhurt at the end too. Torture someone else if they must.

270. Thorny - October 26, 2010

268… Funny, no one I know said that about the movie. The responses I heard were usually along the lines of “cool movie, but…” with various complants following the ‘but’. The most frequent was that it was one or two “dream within a dream” too many. The second most common was the Ellen Page didn’t really have much to do. And the theater I saw it in, people were laughing at the endless slow-mo fall of the van off the bridge. Not a good sign.

I’m glad you liked it. I’m not saying I didn’t and I’m not saying it was a bad movie. But I didn’t care enough about the characters to endlessly debate what was going on in it.

271. Desstruxion - October 26, 2010

Trelane gets my vote out the above mentioned characters. Tie him in to the Q continuum. Or better yet flesh out one of the comic books that I once read and put Kirk on Enterprise E and Picard on the original (crews noticing nothing different) with Trelane and Q playing an intergalactic game of chess. I’d love to see an Abramsverse 1701E

272. Desstruxion - October 26, 2010

Shatner as Tiberius from the mirror universe would be interesting.

273. Felipe - October 26, 2010

I don’t understand.
Do not you want to see new worlds, new species, new trips?
Do you conform to reboots of old episodes of TOS? surrogates?
It’s time to ask for more. Now.
If not ,why were you complaining about Berman?

274. Vultan - October 26, 2010


“But I didn’t care enough about the characters to endlessly debate what was going on in it.”

You’re debating it now. Hey, you do care! ;)

275. Harry - October 26, 2010

273 – I want to see a retelling of the universe. That’s where we’re at…not the voyages of the Enterprise-B.

I would love to see a Trek movie that combines a Talsoian story with a Gary Mitchell storyline.

I would prefer that so much more than Khan. The real Star Trek 2 is Khan. The Star Trek 12: Star Trek 2 should be about something different.

276. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - October 26, 2010

Redo TOS episodes? Why create a new universe then?
Take a theme or villain from those episodes? Okay, I guess. We’ll see.
Redo Star Trek movies? What?? Why?? What’s the rush? Thought we were to witness the creation of Trek. Feel like some of us are stuck in a temporal causality loop. I think these fans can’t wait to get back to TNG era.

277. thebiggfrogg - October 26, 2010

It’s gotta’ be the Horta!

Imagine this:
Star Trek 12: The Paternity Suit

Horta (burning dialogue into stone): Will Sue I! Remember You Passion Night XenoCultural Conference Babel?

Kirk: Um, uh…

Horta (burning dialogue into stone): Do I! Said You I Yours Be Forever! Now Look. (burns a hole in the wall and presents a room full of eggs). Children ours!

McCoy: Christ, Jim. How much Saurian Brandy did you drink at that conference?

Horta (burning dialogue into stone, presents photos): Pictures Have I Our Passion!

Horta egg cracks open and baby KIrk/Horta voice comes from the egg chamber: To boldly–go where–no man has gone–before…

McCoy (grimacing): Your dead, Jim!

278. trekprincess - October 26, 2010

why don’t they combine where no man has gone before and the cage together ok ok not making much sense am I but really Trelane, Horta, Harry Mudd is not what I personally want in the sequel. Gary Mitchell and the talosians all the way

279. Frederick - October 26, 2010

I vote Gary Mitchell. Pay up upon being proven correct.

280. john ross ewing - October 26, 2010

two villians not mentioned
the gorn and the doomsday machine

281. ety3 - October 26, 2010

Please, no Trelane. Funny and amusing, but not “big screen” material.

282. Felipe - October 26, 2010

279. “combine where no man has gone before and the Cage”

Prisoners of the Canon.

ST:New Timeline.
Prisioners of the ghost of the Canon.
Enchained again

283. somethoughts - October 26, 2010

I wish Bob can share with us the general story idea :) or at least confirm who the enterprise and crew is up against. I really can’t take 2 more years of this hehe

I’m voting Talosians and Klingons.

Just no more Romulans, they blew in Nemesis and really blew in ST09 ;)

I am not sure how you guys are going to solve the Prime Spock problem, where he has all the answers. Prime Spock is the ultimate almanack.

Kirk: Prime Spock darling, what should we do with this Botany Bay?

Prime Spock: blow it up

Kirk: Prime Spock darling, what’s up with these big headed white dudes.

Prime Spock: don’t believe your eyes and obey General Order#7

Kirk: Prime Spock darling, how can we be friends with these Klingons

Prime Spock: Kill the guy with the patch and there’s a cloaked bird of prey above you.

You get my point

284. Thorny - October 26, 2010

283… That wasn’t really Romulans in ST 2009, it was one mining ship (not even a ship of the line) captain who went nuts and a bunch of Romulan crew none of whom had the b*lls to stand up and say, “hey, the captain wants to blow up Vulcan and Earth, I think he’s gone nuts, lock him in his quarters and have you take over. What’s left of our civilization might really need a big powerful mining ship right about now.”

285. somethoughts - October 26, 2010

BTW who cares bout canon :)

This is a reboot, do what you want as long as it’s good.

Sometimes a piece of me wishes, they didn’t do the alternate reality thing with Spock Prime and Nero and just gave us their version of Star Trek.

We all know it’s fantasy and not real life :) it’s not like these characters future are sealed just because we had prior versions or stories of them. To hell with this alternate reality :)

It’s not like I questioned Daniel Craig in Casino Royale and wondered what happened to the other James Bond and other stories :)

I love the new version of Star Trek, I just don’t like the whole messed up idea that their reality is a result of a mad man from the future, killing Kirks dad, Spocks Mom, Vulcan, and that armada of 47 Warbirds, what if Kor etc are dead now, such a shame!

I’m betting their Star Trek 2009 would have been more awesome without Nero and they dealt with the Klingons from the get go, yup, I said it :)

286. John Trumbull - October 26, 2010

I’d say it’s most likely the Talosians. Trelane would just confuse the TNG fans unfamiliar with TOS. They’d just think he’s Q. Harry Mudd is great, but more of a humorous villain, which I doubt they’d in the second movie. Gary Mitchell doesn’t make much sense for the reasons you specified in the article, and the Horta’s story has also pretty much been told.

287. somethoughts - October 26, 2010


Yea I was referring to Romulus being blown up in the prime future universe :)

I also agree with you about the whole mining thing and madman thing.

288. Horatio - October 26, 2010

I call BS on this so called informant close to the producers. As fanatically secretive as JJ and the gang were about the first film do you REALLY think that they would let someone they don’t trust in on the story? And its just a story – the friggin script isn’t even finished or approved yet.

Come on everyone, this is just speculative trek masturbation!

289. David S - October 26, 2010

I think the villain should be Kirk’s uncle … still pissed about the ‘vette.

290. somethoughts - October 26, 2010

Patrick Stewart as a talosian :) hes smart n bald n played xavier :)

291. Polly - October 26, 2010

Please no Horta. Not that I don’t like Horta it just seems so…done….I know they are trying to “appeal to bigger crowds” (like non-trekkies who have never seen anything but ST09) and a lot fo the crowd doesn’t know about the Horta, but seriously, a lot of people do, and it would just be boring because we already know what happens. I mean, we already have that story why waste time doing it again?

Same goes for the others. But if we simply cannot come up with something new, then I guess I would prefer the Talosians…but only ’cause I think alien-looking stuff is the most fun :) No other reason really.

292. NFXstudios - October 26, 2010

The central story could be about the Talosians… Harry was right about the popularity of Inception, and that style of movie would, if done correctly and well, be a very “Star Trek” kind of story.

But also consider this. Many films incorporate multiple plots. Every Bond movie opens with the conclusion of one mission pre-credits before the “real” plot begins. ST09 did basically the same thing.

So might we not see something along the lines of a Devil in the Dark remake pre-credits to build the characters of Kirk and Spock, or some mission involving Gary Mitchell (to set up a potential plot for the third movie) then the discovery of Talos as the primary plot, with Kirk in the cell instead of Pike?

A more or less remake of the Cage could work on many levels. It was definitely the most “cerebral” of the Trek stories, something a loud contingent of fans said the first movie lacked. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, it gives the entire crew something to do. Spock (as “number one”) trying to do the logical thing in the face of illogical facts coming from the ship’s sensors; Scotty trying to figure out why the top of the mountain isn’t being blasted off by the ship’s phasers, etc.

I had not considered it before, to be honest — if there was to have been a remake of any TOS episode as a feature film my choice might have been the Doomsday Machine — but if something is going to be remade, the Cage might be the best choice. Not only is in quintessential Trek, but it’s a story that not every fan (and certainly very few non-fans or new fans) know the whole story behind.

293. Phil - October 26, 2010

We have had enough posts to this site from Management that we can know two things – there won’t be any leaking of details, and there won’t be any TOS scripts dusted off and re-imagined, re-told, or re-whatever. I know a few people will bristle at the comparison, but Pine’s Kirk is going to need to mature a bit similar to how Mark Hamil’s Luke Skywalker did. Presenting another “villian” story does not accomplish this, as all he needs to do is blast away, and Starfleet pins another medel on his chest. Now, give young Kirk a delimma where he has to consider the blood of innocents as a result of his actions, it gives him an opportunity to grow. Why was the first 15 minutes of Trek 09 important? It gave the audience an opportunity to care about Kirk and Spock (sorry, everyone else is a supporting character). The trick for the writers is to create is for the next movie – if the audience walks out of the theaters not bonding/caring for the title characters, the franchise is doomed. George Lucas pulled it off with Luke/Leia/Solo, and failed with Anikin/Padme/Obi-Wan. I think Orci/Kutzman know they have to catch lighting in a bottle with this story, because they don’t they probably won’t get another chance with the general audience.

294. Adam C - October 26, 2010

everybody expects khan and the new star trek has to battle with it being a spoof, so im relieved their not doing it.

mudd might be entertaining as a secondary villein. most other tos villeins would be a good idea for a movie. Talosian might be the strongest bet you could almost make a inception style movie but could be a ripoff. god knows really.

To me the new star trek is a cash in, rip off spoof anyway.

295. Mach1 - October 26, 2010

I say horta all the way….

…maybe a plot point where kirk and an evil horta get stranded on a cold desolate planet and they realise they have to work together to stay warm…

so kirk uses the horta as a sleeping bag and ….erm….the horta gets some benifit from this too….

or horta and kirk get attacked by another alien but horta saves the day and translates for kirk….we would have a 10min scene of the horta just burning words in to the ground….

i see a spin off series too. Horta and Kirk.

I have so many ideas ……even a bar scen involving the horta, boy those guys can drink….

dont steal my ideas bob orci….. i know there too good!!

296. Sybok's Secret Brother - October 26, 2010

I like the idea of a visit to Talos IV. A lot. Opens the door for Pike to be in the story too.

297. saavik001 - October 26, 2010

Talosians!! The Cage and The Menagerie were great. although a very internal episode, it could be expanded to something movie quality. Kirk is the one trapped with Vina, Klingons come to eradicate Talos because of thier mental powers and the Enterprise crew has to fight them off and save Kirk. and it’s all Mudd’s fault. LOL

298. Scruffy the Vampire Janitor - October 26, 2010

Talosians and Harry Mudd.

They need a reason to go to Talos and answering a distress call from Mudd satisfies that.

299. Hugh Hoyland - October 26, 2010

I like the idea of a Star Trek motion picture in the vein of TOS, well kinda like Star Trek 09 was actually, but I mean the more creepy episodes. It hasnt been done before in any of the movies (maybe FC somewhat) and like people have pointed out, Inception did well at the Box office. Thats were Im headed in my script, “At the Mountains of Madness” man!

300. TMMW - October 26, 2010

Gary Mitchelle, or what he will become, is my vote.

301. SJU - October 26, 2010

I’m thinking Trelane.

302. Captain Hackett - October 26, 2010

Gary Mitchell and/or Talosians sound so intriguing to me. I would be perfectly okay with other well known villains that Bob Orci and his crew wants to be in movie.

303. VOODOO - October 26, 2010

If this rumor is true my guess would be the Talosian’s. Could be an interesting choice.

304. Kev -1 - October 26, 2010

I have TOS on DVD and videotape. How about something new. Why reboot just to rehash the same stories ad infinitum?

305. VOODOO - October 26, 2010

The Talosian’s offer the writing team the chance to be truly dark and explore strange new worlds…Also, the writers had mentioned in the past that they would like to incorporate some of the strange aspects of the original ST. The Talosian’s could give them that chance.

Harry Mudd – A very overrated character. Not interesting enough to carry a major motion picture. Besides, they won’t go the comedy routine with this film.

Horta – Worked for a tv show, not a major motion picture.

Trelane – Those all powerful super beings (Q) are boring and rather overrated.

Gary Mitchell – Wouldn’t be surprised if he turns up in this film, but not as the main bad guy.

306. Tom - October 26, 2010

Talosians would be “too cerebral”
Isn’t that what NBC called the pilot. Actually would be cool

307. Vultan - October 26, 2010

As much as I like all those TOS “villains,” I really hope it’s none of the above. Nero may have been a cheap combination of Khan and Shinzon, but at least he bordered on some micro-sized degree of being original.

C’mon, guys, give us something NEW in this new universe of yours!

308. NuFan - October 26, 2010


That would be funny. “Jimmy, I will follow you to the ends of the galaxy until you pay off that car!”

309. Red Dead Ryan - October 26, 2010


Yeah, maybe Tom Cruise can play a red shirt who gets blown out of an airlock into space and is subsequently vaporized in cross-fire between the Enterprise and a Klingon Battlecruiser!

310. Dlope - October 26, 2010

Talosians/ Pike. Perfect way to wrap up Pike’s involvement, and thereby take Kirk to the next level.

Top notch. I’m onboard. Doug L.

311. Tom - October 26, 2010

There definitely could be great possibilities with Pike, Kirk Prime, Spock Prime. Regardless of what the story turns out to be, I wonder how they will deal with Spock Prime. All indications are Leonard Nimoy will not be in the film. However will they give it a shot and try to talk him into one more time If it worthwhile to the story? Would even mentioning his character without his appearance confuse people who did not see the other movie?
Or do they ignore it altogether?

312. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

Bob, peruse the following site when you have the chance. Relevant in a theoretical way to how Talosians may be able to do what they do. May be the DNA you are looking for.

313. Ahkenatan - October 26, 2010

My two cents: I don’t know who would make the best villain. The Talosians most likely but I would want to see Harry Mudd, maybe as a secondary character. Working with the bad guys against Kirk then when the bad guys lose he is saved by Kirk and co. He is too wishy-washy morals wise to be a true bad guy but he would side with the bad guys if the money was right.

He is sort of a scoundrel, along the lines of Han Solo, only not as cool and wicked brash.

And we all like scoundrels, we don’t have enough of them in our lives ;)

314. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

Oh, and when you get to that site and read his short introduction, you can also add another sentence after his last one: “And it is Star Trek too.”

315. JohnnyF - October 26, 2010

I haven’t had a chance to read all these posts, but aren’t the villains above just rumored? The Klingons were in TOS and they would be good villains for the movie. It would be a great back story as to why Kirk and the Klingons hate each other so much. It seems to me that the Klingons are a very important part of the Star Trek universe and they rate pretty high as to things you think of when someone mentions “Star Trek.” You know, Kirk, Spock, McCoy, the rest of the crew, the Enterprise, Starfleet and the Klingons.

316. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

Oh, and HOW could I forget this..JUST a starting point, mind you, but again may be HIGHLY relevant to Talosian story:

317. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

Liking Talosian concept very much right now. But risky, Bob!

318. Desstruxion - October 26, 2010

It’s all a decoy to throw us off. It’s gonna be Khan.

319. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

306. Tom – October 26, 2010

Talosians would be “too cerebral”
Isn’t that what NBC called the pilot.

Yes, but those were executives. What they probably meant was that the Talosians’ heads were too big.

320. Alientraveller - October 26, 2010

If it’s Trelane we could get the Q movie we’ve always wanted.

321. Captain Rickover - October 26, 2010

As far as I know, the script is not even finished. How should anyone (exept Bob, Alex, Damon and JJ) know who the villain is?

Come on everyone! That’s just rumors and bad ones too!

322. CAPT KRUNCH - October 26, 2010

I see someone like Jack Black playing Harry Mudd as comic relief…not a main villian…I agree it could be a decoy to KHANNNNNN!!.
Be kinda cool to see the “buttheads” as my 12 yo son calls them..Talosians…getting Pike out of that wheelchair!

323. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

If they’re surreptitiously trying to get feedback on the idea, it may mean that they themselves are not totally sold on it.

Potential for reward is great if you get it right. But fraught with the perils of ridicule if you get it wrong. For that reason, it seems to me to be a story you want to craft as slowly as necessary to get the philosophical support built solidly beneath it. Talosians could be the perfect vehicle to deal with some cutting edge ideas….nature of consciousness and it’s relationship to reality…

With Talosians you are dealing with probably the biggest “big idea” you can treat in a movie which itself uses technology to create the illusion of moving objects on a theater screen.

324. Alec - October 26, 2010

I think this leak might be real. They get everyone discussing the Klingons or Khan and the villian turns out to be someone completely different. The Supreme Court did talk about going deeper with this sequel, in terms of characterisation; and they also said both that they were considering a moral allegory and that the sequel wouldn’t be all about the villian.

So it’s the Talosians, then!

I’d be pretty happy with that: those episodes were great; and they’ve never been in a film so far. I’m sure the Supreme Court would know that a film would require lots more action than was in the episodes; but this sounds good. We could get a very clever story. I have faith in them, now, having seen the first one.

325. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

Actually the story Bob had in mind was about Trelane. All this excitement about the Talosians made him hurl his iPad against the wall.

326. Danpaine - October 26, 2010

Ok, great. Talosians. Very cool stuff.

But how do we work an epic ship battle in there? Talosian ships? Klingon side-story? Gorn side-story? A Tholian Web, perhaps?

327. Phil - October 26, 2010

“Q” movie we have always wanted? Who is “we”, I never want to see “Q” on the big screen. Villians with god-like powers are annoying. “Q” – preaching in TNG was at best, tolerable, and at worst, created an urge to poke screwdrivers in my ears.

No epic space battles, either. Trek 4 didn’t nned one. TESB didn’t need one, either.

328. "Check the Circuit!" - October 26, 2010

Hmm. No participation in this thread from Mr. Orci? Fascinating.

329. Felipe - October 26, 2010

The only thing HAVE to happen necesarily in this new timeline is V’GER because V’GER is already on his way to Earth long before the new timeline was created.

330. Jai - October 26, 2010

An observation:

The reason ST09 was such a great commercial success (and managed to reboot the franchise as a commercial proposition) was because of its appeal to the general public, rather than solely/predominantly people who were already fans of Star Trek.

If the intention of the filmmakers is to build on that, then it would make sense for them to select a villain — either an individual or an alien group — that the general public is already familiar with. The general public has a far greater awareness of some established Star Trek villains than others.

Extrapolate that logically, and it will result in a possibly realistic conclusion in terms of which villain(s) it would make commercial sense for the filmmakers to include in the next film, given their target audience.

My polite 5 cents/pence/paise ;)

331. Drstrange - October 26, 2010

Garth of Izar…. Fleet Captain gone insane….

… think about it, … think about it.

332. Felipe - October 26, 2010

For the general public , ST, GI JOE and Transformers is the same thing because they only want show and fx And for show and FX we have superhero films (or Transformers , GI JOE…)
ST must be the best and more intelligent scifi.No a mere fx show with a clown.
It must be Dark Knight, not Iron Man 2

333. AJ - October 26, 2010


Good point, Jai…especially if new fans maybe picked up TOS on DVD after seeing ST09, seeing one of those classic antagonists re-imagined would be cool.

As long as it’s not Mr. Atoz and his disappearing library trolleys….

334. gingerly - October 26, 2010

People, this is simply a jumping off point for discussion. This is just another rumor from the “let’s make things up” mill.

None of this will happen, but it’s fun to speculate.

Orci likely had a good chuckle at this headline. If they do use any of these characters they’ll probably cameo, like the salt monster and Orion did in Trek 2009.

335. Vultan - October 26, 2010


So, in other words… take something familiar and repackage it so even the dumbest member of the human race will buy it. Hmmm… since when did movies begin running for public office instead of the box office?


336. Renee Wike - October 26, 2010

How about Gary Mitchell as the Villain without the god-like powers showing that he had the evil side all along.

337. Phil - October 26, 2010

330. Jai – October 26, 2010

Darth Vader? Hitler? The IRS…..

Gotta have a little fun with this… :-)

338. Corinthian7 - October 26, 2010

From the list mentioned my first choice would be Trelane and i’d like to see John De Lancie thrown in their too. Either have him play Trelane suggesting that the entity Kirk encountered was the same being who later tormented Picard or have him in there as well as Trelane. The Talosians would be cool as well but if they are in it then it doesn’t necessarily follow that it would involve Pike.

To be honest none of the characters listed strike me as traditional movie villains so it could be that this character would be the secondary villain or add credence to the suggestion that the primary threat in this movie would not be a villain. I’d prefer the latter.

339. Jorg Sacul - October 26, 2010

Harry Mudd, played by Jack Black.

340. Jorg Sacul - October 26, 2010

No, truly, I hope it’s Talosians. There is SO much that could be done with mindgames in this fertile pasture!

341. Battle-scarred Sciatica - October 26, 2010

Well, they’ve done exactly what they wanted to do and get us all speculating and throwing ideas around.

Personally I’m not fussed who the “villain” is so long as its done right!

…and pluuuuuuuuuease no frigging A lister crap. No Cruise and definately no Izzard!
Keep the villain reasonably low key in Hollywood listing stakes, but hardcore on the screen.

342. N - October 26, 2010

Yes no Khan. Now Mudd is so out dated. I hated Mudd anyway. The rest I’m cool with. Klingons too.?

343. Daoud - October 26, 2010

@328 Oh, I think he’s here. He might even have also posted under a double top-secret pseudonym!

344. Wes - October 26, 2010

I honestly do not know what to make of it. But if this rumor turns out to be true, then I am happy they did not decide to remake Khan. Khan is best left in the past. But maybe one of the villains mentioned could make an interesting secondary villain. Maybe if the new movie’s version of the Klingons could work together with the Talosians (or hell, maybe even the Gorn! that would be so awesome!) and wreak havoc to Kirk and his crew.

No one even thought of the Gorn and how they could work well in this new universe. The Gorn would look so great in the film as they haven’t been given the proper movie treatment. Sure the Gorn in the Enterprise episode, “In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II,” looked great but if the new movie could return the Gorn to his original state from “Arena,” it would be great.

I’m hoping it’s the Gorn.

345. cd - October 26, 2010


346. N - October 26, 2010

Why does Trelane need to be a Q. Can’t there be other god like entities in the universe. Q vhas been done to death. Keep q in TNG.

347. trekprincess - October 26, 2010

maybe Mr Orci is keeping his lips sealed :) please let it be Mitchell or the talosians in the sequel that would be so awesome

348. - October 26, 2010

trelane would be great, but the talosians, too.

349. Frederick - October 26, 2010

Sigh… i was really hoping for new, original stories, not remakes. Let’s hope this is just a false rumor.

350. Danpaine - October 26, 2010

To the general movie-going public, who are the targets here ($$$), villians we here already know WOULD BE a new, original story.

351. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

Talosians would be a surprising choice for the sequel. I was thinking more along the lines of a segue film, somewhere between the last one and a full on Star Trek type adventure, but which still preserved the action and humor of the original. It seems Talosians would be a much deeper Star Trek, and I thought they’d save that type of story for the last of the 3 films we are supposed to get.

What’s the third one going to look like if a Talosian story doesn’t do so hot?

352. AJ - October 26, 2010


“What’s the third one going to look like if a Talosian story doesn’t do so hot?”

The Wrath of Khan

353. Peter N - October 26, 2010

I think one of those new Domino’s Pizza ads includes a photo of the Horta, so I don’t think they will go there. The whole movie would have to be delivered in about thirty minutes.

354. OfficialSpudUk (Formally known as PropperTrekkieUk) - October 26, 2010

Ok, this might seem a little stupid, but as the script has only just started, surely the only people “close to the production” would be the Supreme Court at present, so the “informant close to the production” must be one of them….unless, of course, its bollocks. My money is on bollocks.

I wouldn’t be suprised if Harry Mudd wasn’t it in at some point though….would be good. Excitied!

355. Denny - October 26, 2010

if it were Michell and the bum heads itd kinda make sense as :

i) the whole potential Inception thing* with the talosians – much like the 007 films, previous Trek films have capitised on other recent major successes – e.g. TMP came about as a result of 1977s Star Wars (although was more 2001 influenced), TWOK – scary vader like villain in Khan and icky ‘Alien’ style creature, TVH had to be alittle bit influnced by BTTF and other ‘fish out of water’ 80s movies like Croc Dundee etc, TFF had more than a touch of an Indiana Jones ‘quest’ movie, TUC at times felt like Hunt for Red October in space, FC was star trek does ‘Aliens’ crossed with a healthy dose of Terminator, Nemesis was TNG does TWOK…(*actually Generations had quite a strong Inception style plot did it not)

ii) now the ‘reboot’ is out the way, Star Trek ‘starts again’ by ‘redoing’ the 2 pilots

iii) itd be both cerebral and action orientated (just like the 2 pilots)

iv)Pike could end up in the centre of the action again like in the 1st pilot

v) G Michell being all powerful god like (i couldnt see him being there just to serve coffee) would present some awesome X Men 3 style danger (say what you want about the film or the way it handled the phoenix saga, the scenes with Jean Grey were pretty disturbing)

vi) neither would be anything like Khan (unlike Nero who was basically Khan like villian #8) so they could save Khan for movie 3 – and not have him straight after nero which would be way too soon

vii) itd enable an eerie uncanny Twilight Zone type vibe (like much of season 1 had) enabling supernatural awe and dread as opposed to straight star wars like action with Khan or the Klingons

356. raffie - October 26, 2010

I say it’s the Talosions!
Nuff said :P

357. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

352. AJ – October 26, 2010

lol. what I’m afraid of…

358. AJ - October 26, 2010

It’s kind of funny from a non-Trekker perspective to hear that the villain in the next ‘Trek’ blockbuster may be called ‘Gary Mitchell.’ Sounds like my rep at State Farm or a varsity Midwestern high school tackle.

359. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

A high school tackle…with the powers of a god…who could wedgie everybody on the Enterprise at the same time. NO laughing matter.

360. Vultan - October 26, 2010


Nah, Gary Mitchell is the equipment manager for the Cleveland Indians.


361. rogue_alice - October 26, 2010

#262 – Get Tyler Perry to play “Muhdea’s Women”

362. AJ - October 26, 2010


Thank God the Enterprise never seems to have toilets. No divine swirlies.

363. robowarrior - October 26, 2010

Talosians would be the smart move, though I would love to see Trelane.

364. AJ - October 26, 2010


or one of those policemen on COPS driving around some seedy suburb of West Palm Beach who’s been on the force 7 years…

365. Adam C - October 26, 2010

tholians :)

366. rachel weisz, please? - October 26, 2010

I can only imagine Mitchell as a main villain in the next movie without it becoming too campy, samey or having to drastically change the characters.

Mudd could work as a sub plot, though.

367. rogue_alice - October 26, 2010

While investigating mysterious death at a mining facility, discovers Harry Mudd hawking awesome chrome-like silicon orbs.

Gary Mitchell, passed over as Captain, has taken a position as the Mine Operator.

The Talosians, carefully monitoring the situation, from their lair are scheming to find human breeding stock for their cages, have trained their illuso-wide-screen on Gary Mitchell (whilst watching the Shopping Channel in the PoP).

Trelane, dropped off by the parents for a playdate in the tunnels is running wildly from Mama Horta; as she mistakenly assumes that Trelane has her babies.

Harry and Gary, who have each entered tunnels that will intersect hear the howling Trelane and quicken their respective pace. More hiddeous screaming from the foppish Trelane, makes Harry and Gary move even more rapidly.

Ahead, is the intersection of the tunnels where all will enivitable cross.

Bammmmmm! A wacky collision of arm, legs and tumbling bodies. Harry looses the grip of the egg babies. The Horta misses a turn and creates a hole which Gary falls into…face down.

After the dust (and acid) clears, Gary rears to reveal that shards of the glistening chromey egg baby shells have adhered to his eyelids. He stumbles around, head cocked back eerily.

The Horta is horrified to see egg baby pieces on Gary and lunges (okay, skitters) toward him. Harry and Trelane, in an effort to flee fall into the shallow hole over Gary. Their fate is sealed, so to speak.

The Horta takes them, jiggles a bit, thinks a bit, jiggles a bit. Gastly gases rises. The Horta retreats. And there, at the base of the shallow hole is one name. “Me haz a sad 4 mah kids!! RRrrrrrRRRR!!!

The Talosians zoom-up the Shopping Network deciding to search for more capable human subjects.

Our new crew, safely dealing with hundreds of thousands of tribbles…recieves the faint homing beacon of a late 1990 model Earth vessel drifting ahead in space.


Polish that up. Tack on a sexy soundtrack. Zoom the ship past some planets and stars. Viola. Done!!

368. snoopytrek - October 26, 2010

agreed with some above…why does it have to have a villain? they’re falling back to the rick berman trap thinking a general audience won’t come see it less it has a strong bad guy..this is what almost killed trek, but the episodes that made us stop and think is what has kept trek alive for (almost) 50 years..dangit!

369. JessIam - October 26, 2010



You forgot somethign though:

“Polish that up. Tack on a sexy soundtrack. Zoom the ship past some planets and stars. Viola. Done!!”

No lens flares? :)

370. Vedek Anon - October 26, 2010

While casting about the remake vault known as TOS –

Here’s an interesting idea – Kirk, Spock, McCoy are wrapping up mission to dealing with the “Companion”. James Cromwell cameos reprising his role as Zefram Cochrane tying in not only the Enterprise series, but also Next Gen with a intro scene prior to opening credits. I know, not the best action-packed episode, but talk about stifling the CANON crowd with one full-on wet dream.

Just random musings inspired by the Prophets and way too much TV.

371. jas_montreal - October 26, 2010

this is gonna be a disaster.

372. P Technobabble - October 26, 2010

I’m sure no one here needs to be reminded how premature all of this rumoring is. The scriptwriting only started once the story was nailed down, and it sounds like that happened within the last few weeks?
We don’t have any idea what Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof have up their sleeves, and we are unlikely to start getting any “real” info until the film is in production.
On the other hand, I suppose the rumoring is a good thing cos it keeps everyone obsessing about what the plot of the next film will be, who the guest stars will be, which villain will — which villain won’t, will they get new uniforms, will they get a new engine room, will NuKirk ever get the girl, and so on… Imagine if Bob O was giving us a play-by-play about how the script is coming along, in every tiny detail, on a daily basis. There’d be no point in making a movie, now would there?
Personally, I’d prefer to know absolutely NOTHING about the next film so that I can actually be SURPRISED when I see it (in 2 frikkin years)!

373. Dee - October 26, 2010

# 241

Delirium I think!…… HATE DOESN’T MAKE SENSE!


374. rogue_alice - October 26, 2010

372 – I agree. I want to be surprised.

375. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

The space battles problem can be addressed….


The massive fleet at Laurentian system disappears. Another fleet which was to have been commanded by Pike also disappears. Pike pursues against Starfleet orders (reference: Talos IV has already been discovered in this universe and is already under quarantine, bearing the Federation’s only death penalty for any quarantine violation).

It turns out that Starfleet believes that the mysterious disappearance of both fleets is only an illusion particularly on the basis of a covert operation by Section 31 that has intimated that the Talosians are about to “disappear” various other alien fleets.

In fact, the Talosians have already “disappeared” the alien fleets of several other major powers as yet undiscovered to the Federation, for purposes unknown.

(Integrate 9/11 allegory previously described.)

Pike’s pursuit of the truth in the face of illusion takes on the character of a riddle wrapped up in an enigma. His original mission to determine the truth behind the destruction of Vulcan gives way to a deeper conundrum — the mystery behind the apparent destruction of the Federation’s largest fleets. He cannot be sure what is real and what is an illusion. His transmissions from deep space only deepen Starfleet’s unease about Section 31’s recommendations, raising questions of whether Section 31’s operatives are in fact double agents, and the remaining elements of Starfleet gather for one final perimeter defense.

When Pike himself disappears, Kirk is sent, along with Spock the Younger (with covert orders), on a specially programmed and refitted Enterprise to determine, once and for all, the truth behind the disappearance of two massive Federation fleets.

Unknown to the crew of the Enterprise, the ship itself has been programmed to seek out and destroy the Talosian planet even at the cost of galactic war — and reality itself.

376. rogue_alice - October 26, 2010

@369 – the only lens flares would be from Edith Keller’s eyes, filled with curiousity, as she walks slowly across a revamped and suitable techy engineer deck as a beer truck runs her down.

377. VulcanFilmCritic - October 26, 2010

I’ve heard that J.J. Abrams wants to make a “dark” movie like “The Dark Knight.”
How much darker can you get? You’ve just destroyed Vulcan and killed Mr. Spock’s mother. I can’t imagine sitting through two more hours of bad news.
So what villains would fit into a “dark” movie and not drag it down into frank tragedy?
The Horta is not a villain; she is a mother protecting her children. So she’s out. (Unless there is another evil Horta out there somewhere.)
Trelane is kind of a lightweight and a little bit ludicrous. I doubt that this kind of villain would be big box office.
Re-vamped, re-imagined Talosians would be a possibility but no matter how you slice them, they still taste like “The Matrix.” OK, so they have mind-control. Big deal! Who in the Star Trek universe doesn’t?
Gary Mitchell is a distinct possibility but Star Trek has done “The God Thing” so many times! I don’t think I want another helping of that!
That leaves dark horse Harry Mudd. I don’t think Tyler Perry was cast in the first movie (as Admiral Barnett) just because he’s a Star Trek fan and he wanted to get onto the set. He stuck out like a sore thumb. He’s a plant.
I think he’s going to play Mudd and Barnett in the next movie. Call me crazy, call me cynical but I think there’s some plot twist involving the Admiral and Mudd.
But Harry Mudd won’t be the true monster. The monster will be whoever or whatever is chasing Harry Mudd when we meet up with him.
Now here’s the cynical part. The filmmakers know that we, the loyal fans, will show up for whatever comes next. Tyler Perry brings a whole other demographic with him, potentially increasing the audience for this franchise even more. Some crossover appeal perhaps.
I’m all for it, of course. But if I had my “druthers” I’d make a Vulcan the bad guy!

378. Losira - October 26, 2010

Its a good idea to have a familer villian to start off wet our appetites. But to introduce a new threat. I saw a lot of great ideas on this thread. May I suggest Kor he’s a Klingon that’s a villian with charm and charisma. And at the same time loyal to his cause and deadly.

379. Thorny - October 26, 2010

339…Egads, no Jack Black as Mudd, please! Might I suggest Bruce Willis? Bill Murray? Especially if Mudd is a secondary, comic-relief villain in this movie.

373… Pine was fine, but the character he played didn’t much resemble James T. Kirk. That was almost certainly by design, but I still don’t care much for it. I hope this next movie shows Kirk maturing into a true leader of men.

380. ChristopherPike - October 26, 2010

Ooh… Gary Mitchell surely? Kirk was at the Academy for 4 long years. McCoy wouldn’t have been sat next to Kirk for every class. Why wouldn’t he have other friends?

If true, I couldn’t be happier that aren’t treading the same path the Original movies did, by going to Khan on the second time out.

381. StarFuryG7 - October 26, 2010

It’s Harry Mudd, who will be played by Greg Grunberg. Watch.

I’m disheartened that Damon Lindelof has had a hand in writing the script given what a travesty he turned “Lost” into.

382. Corinthian7 - October 26, 2010

Got to disagree with you on that StarFuryG7, i’m delighted that Damon Lindelof has had a hand in writing the script given how much I admire his work on Lost, I am disappointed to hear that he’s been directed by the studio to write script targeting a pg-13 classification for the Alien prequel though.

383. SteveB - October 26, 2010

It’s a shame. They could have used Lorenzo Lamas & he could have been “Khanagade”.

384. ChrisPikeswheelchair - October 26, 2010

I vote for me as the villain…….

385. Chadwick - October 26, 2010

Bob has yet to chime in, unless he did it under another name.

386. Phil - October 26, 2010

Rick Bermans Trek movies had strong villians? Old guy in fantasy land? Nope. Walking machines, unplug one, they all die? The botox man? Nope. Clones R Us? Nope………Guinan…yeah, she was kinda creepy…

387. TMMW - October 26, 2010

377. VulcanFilmCritic – October 26, 2010
“You’ve just destroyed Vulcan and killed Mr. Spock’s mother. ”

Yeah! BUT WHY???!!! \That really sucked when Checkov could’nt pull Spock’s Ma through. Especially after he saved Kirk and Sulu minutes before.
And he ran four decks to get there?


388. Losira - October 26, 2010

A female Villian would also be an excellent. Choice as others have said. How bout Deela confronting kirk with his kid telling he owes thousands of Fed Credits in back child support! There’s a threat! LOL. But seriously a threat by a n evil female done right would be great. The Romulan commander? Perhaps. So run for the hills Spock! Just kidding! I’m sure an advesary. Will be used that little is known about to build a new mythology.

389. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

377, the Matrix movies did not have Kirk, Spock, and Bones (nor massive space battles).

Using the Talosians would work on so many levels (“Row, row, row your boat….”), philosophic and dramatic.

Under my schemata, the Talosians need not be the ultimate villains. There is a tendency to believe that there is just one level of supervillains; this is what I call the Lex Luthor School of Villainy. In reality, the supervillains themselves may be controlled by even more powerful supervillains, in much the same way that Vader was controlled by the Emperor in the SW movies.

There is also a need to revisit the classic tropes of drama. I do not believe that villains need be personalized, although of course villainy can have a personal exponent. The central villainy of World War II was not merely Hitler, although of course he was a very large part of it; it was the National Socialist movement and the idea of total war against all enemies without reserve.

To be creditable as a serious movie, the next Trek needs to partake of serious dramaturgy as well as having mass appeal.

If you think about it, the most successful of all science fiction movies is rarely just about personal villains; it is essentially an exciting visualization of existential conflict. Terminator 2, for example, was a devastating critique of the inhumanity of man and his overweening hubris. “There is no fate but what we make.” And, remember the closing line? “…if a machine can learn the value of human life, then maybe we can, too.”

If James Cameron can make these concepts work, and rake in the dough while exciting worldwide audiences in the process, then there is no reason that a sufficiently talented creative group cannot do so for Trek.

390. Willy Wonka - October 26, 2010

Jim Carry as Harry Mud

391. Gene L Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - October 26, 2010

Completely Off Topic: I was stuck in horrendous NYC Times Square traffic late this afternoon. At precisely 6:09pm, while idling in the middle of the block near the Broadhurst Theater on West 44th Street, a man nonchalantly crossed in front of my car (jaywalking) carrying a cup of coffee, and wearing an Irish knit fisherman’s cap.

It was Patrick Stewart.

Being the cool New Yorker that I am, I said nothing to him, and watched as he walked off towards his theater, disappearing into the crowd. Who else would appreciate that story but you guys?

392. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

Are you sure it wasn’t someone dressed as Professor Xavier in disguise?

It’s New York, New York.

Anything’s possible.

393. Sarah - October 26, 2010

I still hope to see Bill Murray have a good role in Star Trek. He’s a good actor who can play a good role very well. If Star Trek’s next movie doesn’t feautre Khan, I believe a good possibility could be Anton Karidian (Star Trek TOS: “Conscience of a King”). This would also open a door for another cameo by Nimoy, or even by Shatner and provides a good opportunity for the Star Trek world to change the “would-be” future.

394. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

What’s bizarre is that I was just watching Ghostbusters 2 over the weekend.

I really like Bill Murray. He’s everyman-as-comic, and also kind of a sad clown in a very ironic sort of way.

I also dug him immensely in Groundhog Day.

However, what could he play in a ST movie? Possibly a civilian lawyer pushed to the extreme by Starfleet shenanigans. I could seem him Samuel Cogley type — brilliant, bemused, and ultimately pivotal as a defender of civil rights. Not a starring role, but a substantial one, nonetheless, similar to the importance of Sarek in STIII.

395. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

The Talosian thing is so Barton Fink. Bob is gonna show us the life of the mind.

News up next: With Bob operating on his own without any authority from Paramount, Lindelof is sent upriver on a clandestine mission to terminate Bob’s WiFi.

396. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

Apocalyse Bob?

397. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

391. Gene L Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. – October 26, 2010

Oh that’s so cool. I once stood next to Harrison Ford on 2nd Ave. He was carrying a briefcase and a donut. I didn’t say anything either. But it was great!

398. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

Well, as long as we’re celebrity name-dropping, I once had my groceries checked out right after Brad (“Lon Suder”) Dourif. I know that because the guy at the checkstand handed him back his supermarket loyalty card and said, “Thanks, Mr. Dourif, and have a great day.”

Plus, he looked exactly like Brad Dourif.

399. PeteFX - October 26, 2010

Why not use Gary Mitchell? They used the exploding Vulcan idea From “Of Gods and Men” as well. Gotta’ love originality.

400. MSN1701 - October 26, 2010

I’d love for it to be Captain Garth!

401. Gene L Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - October 26, 2010

“400. MSN1701 – October 26, 2010

I’d love for it to be Captain Garth!”

That’s LORD Garth!

402. Imrahil - October 26, 2010

Holy shit. 401 comments?

403. James - October 26, 2010

Has to be the Talosians. No question in my mind.
Of course, the Talosians are controlling my mind to say that. But none the less, it will be Trelane.
(But I hope it’s Harry Mudd)

404. dmduncan - October 26, 2010

Seriously though? I really like the Talosian idea. That’s more meaty material than anything Inception could’ve done poking around mere dream states.

Also provides some Inception-like opportunity to navigate multiple layers of illusion and/or reality.

I felt Nolan missed the target by a hair with that process in Inception. When we started coming back up through the dream levels (which was awesome), it had an edge of your seat feeling, but it didn’t have an edge of your seat payoff. It was building to a dramatic crescendo that I felt never quite arrived, and I was puzzled by that. Felt something missing that should’ve been there. Anyone else feel that?

Anyway, I like that idea and I wouldn’t hesitate to borrow and build on it.

405. Harry Ballz - October 26, 2010

This thread will hit 700, easy!

406. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

401 is a highway
405 is a parking lot
406 — well, that’s another story “all together.”

407. HHT - October 26, 2010

I personally would like Captain Garth to be the villain. Perhaps Merrick from Bread and Circuses, the gaseous cloud from Obsession, or Dr. Daystrom could be in the film as well.

408. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - October 26, 2010

375. Damn Hat Rick, that was pretty good. Spent a little time on that one?

353. I’ll have a meatlovers Horta with extra cheese and large diet pepsi. Product placement for the next movie.

409. Lloyd White - October 26, 2010

If it’s the Talosians…

I hope they bring Shatner in as George Kirk, in an illusionary sequence that Capt. Kirk must extricate himself from—denying what he most wants: a world in which his father did not die.

Letting go gives Pine a great character arc, and Shatner a small but meaty role that is integral to the overall story.

410. Red Dead Ryan - October 26, 2010

I can’t see any of these characters being the primary antagonist in the sequel. Any of them can (and at least one of them) will be a secondary character, with the primary “guest star” being Klingons, Gorn, Khan, Doomsday Machine etc.

And as I have said earlier, no to Harry Mudd. He’s just too campy and not at all interesting. He’s a product of the 60’s, and should remain there.

Talosians and Gary Mitchell are the best bet out of the bunch. But again, this is all just rumor and speculation.

411. jas_montreal - October 26, 2010


412. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

408, thanks.

In a sense, I spent a lifetime on that one.

But in a different and more accurate sense*, approximately 12 and half minutes. Not counting the time spent developing the original schemata, available at another thread.

* Apologies to The Simpsons.

413. Daoud - October 26, 2010

TOS villains, how about another group of illusionists: Sylvia and Korob?

(j/k, but it is the appropriate time of year for a catspaw!)

@406 — well, that’s another story “all together.”

414. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - October 26, 2010

GORN/KLINGON aliance would be awsome. Maybe a the white and black faced people i dont remmber there names.

415. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - October 26, 2010

Bob,it it true what some are thinkin’? Are you shapeshiftin’ on this thread?

416. Chadwick - October 26, 2010

414. DS9 IN PRIME TIME – October 26, 2010
“GORN/KLINGON aliance would be awsome.”


417. jr - October 26, 2010

If it is Gary Mitchel, well they re-locate Delta-Vega?

418. Boborci - October 26, 2010

415. On the subject of Trek, I would never opine as anyone but myself.

419. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - October 26, 2010

Of course not. Just that your silence was deafening. ;]

420. Chadwick - October 26, 2010

I was all gung ho for the Klingons but only if the Talosians are the main “villains” would I be happy with the Klingons as the secondary issue or part of the issue. I love the Klingons and REALLY REALLY REALLY want to see everything about updated but what better homage to Star Trek and Gene then to reintroduce the first adversaries for the current times. Instead of just Pike and Spock it could be Kirk and Spock’s who encounter the Talosians or a reason to get Bruce back as Pike! Everyone loved Bruce as Pike, it would be madness to leave him out, then again in TOS we never saw Kirk interact with an “active” Pike, simply that he knew Pike. Maybe the first movie offered that aspect, ‘here is Kirk and Pike’s meeting’, done….next movie, movie on with the Enterprise crew and Enterprise crew alone.
>> 610 days 23 hours

421. Vultan - October 26, 2010


Bob, totally off topic, but have you ever seen “Seven Days in May?” It’s a good conspiracy film.

Anyway, best of luck sorting through all these demands—I mean, suggestions from us. :)

422. Chadwick - October 26, 2010

385. Chadwick
“Wow Bob has yet to chime in, unless he did it under another name.”

415. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney
“Bob,it it true what some are thinkin’? Are you shapeshiftin’ on this thread?”

418. Boborci
“415. On the subject of Trek, I would never opine as anyone but myself.”

*laughs* It was only propaganda. So many posts and not even a peep, not that logic demanded one from a busy man.

423. Boborci - October 26, 2010

421. Yes I have. One of my favorites. Do you know the story of how that movie got going? It was originally a book. When JFK read it, he thought it was something that could distinctly happen, and, knowing the power of movies, had the book come to Frankenheimer’s (the director) attention in the hope that it would serve as a warning to America during his term and a detterant to the generals he was fighting with daily. He even allowed scenes to be shot in the White House. Sadly, the film was too late. JFK did nit ,I’ve to see its release in 1964.

424. Boborci - October 26, 2010

JFK did not live to see its release in 1964.

425. Hat Rick - October 26, 2010

Silence is neither confirmation nor disconfirmation.

SPOCK: The ship moves of its own accord.

KIRK: That’s crazy, Spock, you know better than that.

SPOCK: Nevertheless, it is true. It fired at Talos IV.

KIRK: A ship is not a person. It didn’t do that. Someone did that. Someone aboard THIS SHIP!

SPOCK: A ship is not our kind of person. But it is a person of a kind.

KIRK: Don’t give me that mumbo-jumbo, Spock! You know damn well the ship can’t fire unless we GIVE THE ORDER.

McCOY: Jim, if I could get a word in here edgewise….

KIRK: And there were only the three of us on the bridge. I certainly didn’t give that order! And I know McCoy didn’t. That leaves only one man could who have fired those torpedoes!

McCOY: One man, and one ship.

426. Zoberraz - October 26, 2010

I personally saw it as fairly important to establish the Klingon Empire as the Federation’s greatest enemies, like it was in the TOS. The first movie in 2009 didn’t really establish that (the Kobayashi Maru has 3 klingon ships trivially blown up, and when we hear dof them, it sounds like 47 of thier ships were offed by a single Romulan ship).

TOS had its share of Klingon villains. Kor and Kang both come to mind. I’d have much prefered seeing them in the stead of any of the above mentioned TOS villains.

427. Vultan - October 26, 2010


Wow, I did not know that, Bob. Thanks for the info. The reason I bring it up is because it’s playing on TCM right now. Anyway, Frankenheimer seems to me to be one of the most under-rated directors of all time; I’ve yet to see one of his movies that I didn’t like (Manchurian Candidate, The Train, French Connection 2, etc.) Too bad he’s no longer with us.

Oh, and another great Kirk Douglas movie I’ve recently fallen in love with—Paths of Glory. Ever seen it? One of Kubrick’s best. And It does have a bit of a conspiracy angle to the story. Mostly anti-war/anti-authoritarian though.

428. somethoughts - October 26, 2010


Yea, imagine if the Klingons were the ones who killed Kirks dad.

It would have been great to reboot both the Enterprise/crew and the Klingons in Star Trek 2009 and in the sequel dealing with the Talosians and the Klingons, having Kirk resolve his demons by working with the Klingons to defeat the Talosians.

That would have been a niffy arc.

Can’t complain though, bob and team did the impossible, they made my wife like Star Trek :)

429. Vultan - October 26, 2010


Also, Bob, while I have your attention, I’ve been meaning to ask you how exactly (without going into detail about any of your current projects, of course) do you and Alex go about writing a screenplay.

What I mean is—does one of you sit at the computer typing while the other paces the floor, thinking out loud? Or is there some other method? I’m just interested in how a writing team or partnership works… since the writer is usually stereotyped as a little man sitting alone at a computer, living on a steady diet, as Rod Serling put it, “black coffee, cigarettes, and fingernails.” :)

430. somethoughts - October 26, 2010

I got it, the Talosians used illusion to show it was Spock Prime and Nero who did the whole time travel thing, the truth of the matter is, the Klingons were behind the destruction the whole time.

This is the reality, the Klingons are the ones who killed Kirks dad, destroyed Vulcan and killed spocks mom. The Klingons been at war with the Federation for quite some time and the Talosians were simply used to help the Klingons pull the wooley over everyones eyes :)

The reality is, there is no Spock Prime and there is no Nero, all this has been a illusion cast by the mighty Klingons and Talosians partnership.

Can someone please offer me a job as a creative writer or something?

431. jwillis84 - October 26, 2010

I think it will more of a combination, maybe all of them.

Perhaps the Talosians had more to do with Gary Mitchell in the first timeline than we ever knew.

Perhaps they’re even aware of the Timeline deviations and are trying to set the Timeline back on course.

The Great Barrier at the rim of the Galaxy could be a lesson in huberis a gift to the Federation.. or the Talosians could see it as their “way out” of their predicament. What if somehow the story evolves that Gary Mitchell re-enters their lives.. but “earns” their trust.. he could be a loaner or an underdog.. that ultimately ends up sacrificing himself to save the Federation and the Galaxy from a new threat.. the Talosians evolved from the Great Barrier with the power of mind over matter.. the ability to rearrange entire solar systems, move stars.. or challenge the ‘Q’ themselves.. it could be a very big Odyssey.. Epic

Say the Talosians become aware of Earth.. or the need to contact Earth sooner than the original Timeline because of the derailing of the Timeline.. and see their chance to save their civilization by accompanying the Enterprise to the edge of the Galaxy searching for that missing ship swept that way by the Ion storms. We could all see where this might be going and think they were going to replay history.. only to learn they’re planning to destroy it and enslave the Federation.. Gary and Veena might be the salvation of the mess.. not Dr. Keller.. she might end up living to see her grand children.. and we might begin to get a sense that each of us lives a unique life.. regardless of the timeline.. and history can play out however it wants.. or needs too.. there is still danger.. real peril out there..

432. Mel - October 26, 2010

I hope Keenser will be in the movie!

433. trekprincess - October 26, 2010

I wouldn’t mind a combination of Gary Mitchell and Klingons that would be pretty awesome.

434. Cheve - October 26, 2010

Of all the rumours I’ve heard, the one that makes more sense is T’Pring from Amok Time. If there is one single TOS episode afected in continuity by the plot in ST XI is that one.

Vulcan is gone and the species is shorthanded. Certainly a reason to accelerate any marriage arrangement already planned between any survivors (Plus potential T’Pol and old Spock parts), but, although it makes perfect sense storywise, it doesn’t realy drive into the TOS crew exploring the universe, unless it is a subplot afecting the crew (Spock must decide between the adventurous mission or his marriage) during a diferent and fascinating sci fi adventure. And T’Pring’s choice of Stonn, plus old Spock’s words at the end of STXI kind of take momentum out of the situation.

If this was a TV series, I would certainly plan at least a two parter regarding this, but I’m not sure if I’d want the only story we’ll have in the next two or three years to take care of this plot. Also, Enterprise already had an ongoing plot regarding the same story with T’Pol.

This movie has to fill several works:
– Be a fluent continuation of the previous one
– Give each crewman enough to do so that the actors and characters are taken care of
– Be as good as the previous one
– But most important: As I said it will be the only Star Trek adventure we’ll have in at least two years. It has to cover a lot of ground, and be a good standalone pure Star Trek adventure.
I don’t see any of those points in desperate need of aditional TOS characters or events being repeated.

435. gingerly - October 26, 2010

Forty-seven ships being destroyed by the very enemy The Federation dispatched, means that the Klingons, Vulcans, and The Federation now have a common event to bond them.

I think this could be the catalyst to bring the Klingons into the Federation much earlier in the timeline.

…And don’t forget the Romulans. Despite Nero’s insistence that “he stands apart” will what he did reflect upon them in some way?

Do other species, the Federation hasn’t made contact with sense rifts of the nature made by Nero’s ship?

Will they come to investigate?

Abrupt switch, but planet-wise, can the Enterprise visit an awesomely creepy gas-giant?

…Or find alien species as strange and imaginative as those seen in The Future is Wild and Stephen Hawking’s Into The Universe?

436. cd - October 26, 2010

Carey Mulligan as Carol Marcus!

437. Pro-Khan-sel - October 27, 2010

Like it says at the headline.. It’s a rumor. glad everyone has an opinion.

438. Buzz Cagney - October 27, 2010

#405 I reckon it’ll run out of steam by 438 Harry.

439. Buzz Cagney - October 27, 2010

or maybe a bit higher. ;-)

440. trekprincess - October 27, 2010

would they do a remake of Amok Time?

441. Charley W - October 27, 2010

Anthony, how reliable has this source been in the past?

442. Harry Ballz - October 27, 2010


Oh, it has a ways to go yet!

443. Mirror Me - October 27, 2010

A breach in the Mirror Universe brings us Admiral “evil mirror” Kirk.

You’ve got your villain… You’ve got your Shatner.
(and we don’t even care that he’s bloated and drunk… because he’s eeeeeevil Kirk!)

Has anyone else suggested this?
If not, wake up and smell the obvious.

444. Alientraveller - October 27, 2010

# 409

That’s an interesting idea, but honestly, if you want the Talosians to bring back George it would make more sense to have Hemsworth reprise the role.

Anyway, is it possible all these suggestions may only be for an opening sequence that has little to do with the actual plot? Something like that would be great to emphasise the crew still have a life “off camera”.

445. Ian B - October 27, 2010

Wow, interesting.

Sorry, haven’t read the whole enormous thread but IMV it can’t be Mudd (comic relief) or the Horta. Mitchell seems unlikely for reasons stated in the article, so it’s a face-off between the Talosians and Trelane. Trelane would make a very good uber-powerful villain with his godlike/Q-like powers, but the Talosians are interesting because of the Pike connection and the enormous surprise success of Pike in the first movie. It would have us on the edge of our seats as to what the writers are going to do to Pike by the end of the movie, if anything, knowing What Has Gone Before. And tying into the first pilot has a great deal of geek kudos for us fans.

I’d like to see the Talosians, but my guess, if the rumour is accurate, would be Trelane. Who would be great also. I just hope we really have put the horror of The Wrath Of Khan Again behind us now.

Just as I was about to post, it occurred to me that the major problem with the Talosians is that they only have illusion powers, and we all know already how to beat them (from The Cage/Menagerie); just disbelieve the illusions. So we’d know all the way through that any “threats” were imaginary and that would rather destroy the tension.

My money is now very firmly on Trelane, (if this rumour is true).

446. Admiral_Bumblebee - October 27, 2010

Trelane could work and there would even be the possibility of including Prime Kirk here. Trelance resurrects him and uses him as his brainwashed “henchman”. Kirk against Kirk.

447. Gary Neumann, the WRATHFULL SEQUEL OF STAR TREK - October 27, 2010

Quite simple, its a rumor so….

The crew will “fight” trelane and then discover it was the Talosians all along! because there is no such thing an energy being ;-) !

448. Col.Tigh - October 27, 2010

My bet is still the Klingons and Harry Mudd as a bonus thorn in his side for KIrk :)

449. Trek's Next Villain is: KOOR - October 27, 2010

You guys are thinking too much in the box. The mentioned villains do not hold a candle to the dastardly Koor. Maybe I’m thinking too much of the actor, John Colicos, but there was something definitely fiendish, wicked and just plain evile the way he smirked, frowned and even laughed that was borderline maniacal.

“You will nut survive our latest invenshun. We call it our mind sifter. Your friend, Spock seems to be able to block his thoughts from us. I wonder why. I will have him die sected..”

In the hands of the right actor, probably stage (Trek guest stars from the stage are best because their training enables them to breath believability in the script’s technobabble), we could have ourselves a formidable villain. On the other hand, perhaps a Euro actor would be better cast to help with international grosses.

450. JL - October 27, 2010

A new dimension in space… a Talosian re-imagining would be awesome, I think.

If they take Pike they could “give him his legs back”… they could do so many things to mess with him…

Imagine the crew going ape$hit trying to get to Pike for a rescue, all while the Talosians are messing with reality.

I can even imagine a scarier, more evil-looking, phantom-like version of the Talosians this time.

A Talosian re-telling gets my vote.

451. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - October 27, 2010

Harry, do you prefer a bottle(s) of red or white with a helping of Horta?

Have to admit the Talosians show the most promise ( or as we used to call them as kids, hiney heads ).

452. rogue_alice - October 27, 2010

I love that Bob drops by. We should have coffee and donuts for him when he is here.

453. NuFan - October 27, 2010


If you leave him cookies and milk, he will put candy and screenplays in your stocking.

454. ME!! - October 27, 2010

Though I’d dearly love to see Mudd appear, my money’s on the Talosians. Trek history has been altered, Kirk is in command earlier and somebody has to respond to that distress signal coming from Talos IV. Perhaps Admiral Pike is aboard for an inspection tour or is being transported to an important meeting on a starbase when the Enterprise picks up the call. Perhaps Gary Mitchell could be introduced in this one.

As for Mudd, I do believe if the story were written well enough, he could work as the main antagonist (as opposed to “villain”…there is a difference). Remember, in Mudd’s first appearance in “Mudd’s Women”, he was an antagonist and hardly the source of humor he became in “I, Mudd”. If anyone could pull that off, it’s the guys currently writing the script.

455. JL - October 27, 2010

Mudd as the “main” adversary is not — IMO — material for a $150+ million big-screen epic. Not in this day and age. Something more threatening, more sinister, is in order. That’s how I see it.

If I were in charge with pulling the trigger on a general premise for this next Trek epic… a return to fascination, to a sense of wonder, exploring the unknown, even the frightening because we don’t understand… would be my main priority.

456. rogue_alice - October 27, 2010

“”a return to fascination, to a sense of wonder, exploring the unknown, even the frightening because we don’t understand… would be my main priority.””

I SO agree!!! That is what hooked my with TOS

457. JL - October 27, 2010

Look at what Ridley did with Alien. It was the exploration of the unknown… it was exciting… THRILLING… and scary as hell. It was the unknown. And it worked. People love it to this day.

The main mission: to explore strange new………… you know the rest.

Loved the first one and now that the crew is together I think it is a great opportunity to seek out new thrills.

Mr. Orci, I really hope this vibe goes down in the sequel… maybe?

458. JL - October 27, 2010

BTW, I realize Star Trek is not Alien…. and I’m not saying NuTrek 2 should be a horror film…. I was just using Alien as a solid, hugely popular example of how “humankind seeking what’s out there” can work in many, many ways in sci-fi film. To excite, to thrill, to frighten, to EXPLORE. THAT’S what I would absolutely LOVE this sequel to give us.

459. El_Nastro - October 27, 2010

God, not Trelane.

The ONLY reason the Trelane-episode was ever made is because the story was written around sets & costumes Paramount already had, because TOS’s budget was too low to construct proper sci-fi sets every episode. That’s the same reason for every lame parallel-earth, time-travel, or stupid holo-deck story throughout the ST series. There’s no reason for this to happen in 2010.

Besides; God-characters have no place in science-fiction. That’s what ST is supposed to be, right? Doesn’t anyone else think that omnipotent god-people with MAGIC POWERS don’t make a whole lot of sense in science fiction? Let me repeat: MAGIC. POWERS. If ST is going to have Magical Space Gods, then perhaps we should all just drop the pretense that Star Trek is well-though-out science fiction, and just admit that for all its technobabble it’s no more realistic or grounded than Star Wars, Harry Potter, or any given Marvel Comic.

In fact, think about this: Mass Effect….a VIDEO GAME, is more consistently believable & plausible than Star Trek ever was.

460. JL - October 27, 2010

A Talosian scenario would give us so much of the above mentioned. Something to think about.

461. JL - October 27, 2010


Zooming across the galaxy at warp speed in a ship without crushing the occupants or altering the ages of anyone related to the event…

It’s all fiction to me. The reality-based *science* part happens occasionally.

Just thrill us… entertain us! It’s all we ask.

462. John from Cincinnati - October 27, 2010

Well since ST09 occurs 7 years before the first season of TOS, my guess would be the Talosians!

Ya hoo!

Thanks Bob! I have been begging for them for 2 years now!


463. saavik001 - October 27, 2010

I vote for Talosians… Save the Klingons or Khan for the 3rd movie! Don’t know if Kirk would resist Vina for an hour’s worth of screentime unlike Pike did. LOL

464. P Technobabble - October 27, 2010

I suppose almost any villain will do, as long as it isn’t the Evil Angel, Melvin Belli! And I’m not too fond of Jo Jo Cracko, either. I wasn’t a big fan of the Greek God, Apollo, now that you mention it. And who could ever forget that stupid amphibian head in “The Apple.”

Those women from “Spock’s Brain” would make a great villain, but this time they’re not looking for brain…

And what’s up with that Mr. Atoz? Wasn’t he a bastard for sending Kirk to a witch hunt, and Spock and McCoy to a frozen wasteland? And is that the only name from A to Z in the human language?

Done more dramatically and creatively, those pesky Andromedans might make a good villain, hijacking the Enterprise for reasons different than the original episode, and not turning the Enterprise crew into little cubes…

I wonder if the Melkotians are all that different from Talosians — they’re both in the illusion business.

465. Daoud - October 27, 2010

@Vultan, Bob…

Seven Days in May is one of my favorites too, particularly for how it evolved that Kirk Douglas (who deserves MUCH credit for the production of the film) was originally going to play General Scott rather than Colonel Casey. Burt Lancaster choosing to go against role and portray the heavy led to I think one of Kirk’s best acting jobs after Spartacus….

The construction of the film Thirteen Days owes a lot to Seven Days, and of course Strangelove came out first in ’64, but the three films make a great triptych. And hopefully, there’s some inspiration in there for Trek….

Isn’t Garth’s descent into madness most likely akin to General James Mattoon Scott’s? Is Kirk Casey, sent off to find out what’s going on? Is Chief of Operations, Admiral Pike the equivalent to President Lyman?

I’d love to hear those lines modified into Trek after Kirk must report Garth for treason: Garth: “Do you know who Judas was?” Kirk answers, “Yes. He’s a man I used to work with and respect, until he disgraced our prime directive.”

466. VOODOO - October 27, 2010

Why would someone close to the creative team be leaking info out this soon?

I’d be a little pissed off if someone was telling the world information about my work that was meant to be private…Assuming this info is true.

467. Jai - October 27, 2010

AJ, re: #333

“Good point, Jai…especially if new fans maybe picked up TOS on DVD after seeing ST09, seeing one of those classic antagonists re-imagined would be cool.”

Well, in a nutshell, this is my logic — just to clarify what I was saying in #330:

ST writers: “We might include some established villains from TOS in the next Trek movie. ST09 was a huge hit with the general public, not just the hardcore Trekkies, so ideally we’d like to repeat that. Also, more ticket sales = more $$$, since this is a business venture as well as an exercise in artistic creativity.”

General public: “Aha. Sounds great. We’re already familiar with some Star Trek villains, especially Klingons. You don’t have to be a hardcore Trek fan to know about them.”

ST writers: “Yep.”

General public: “We’ve heard of Khan too, although we’re not as familiar with him as we are with the Klingons. I remember seeing a fun movie about Khan back in the day, though. It’s been on TV many times since then. But when you think of Star Trek villains, the first group you think of are the Klingons. Absolutely everyone’s heard of them.”

ST writers: “Uh-huh.”

General public: “Anyone else in mind ?”

ST writers: “Some people have tentatively suggested Harry Mudd, Trelane, Gary Mitchell, the Talosians or the Horta.”

General public: “Who the hell are they ?!”

ST writers: “Star Trek fans seem to know all about them.”

General public: “Well, we’re not Trekkies and we’re not going to waste our time seeing a film which has obscure villains only hardcore Star Trek fans would know about.”

ST writers: “Hmm. I see.”

You get the general idea ;) This isn’t about “dumbing down” to cater to the perceived lowest common denominator, it’s about business acumen in terms of catering for the fact that the rebooted theatrical franchise is targetted towards the mainsteam general public, not just the niche Trekkie audience. So it would make sense for the contents of the new films to reflect that — and that includes the villains which are included as part of the storyline.

Anyway, as a few people have mentioned, the issue of Trelane, the Talosians etc is currently just a “rumour”. Someone’s either misinformed, or they’re being a bit mischievous, or there’s some deliberate disinformation coming from somewhere in order to deflect attention from who the real villains are actually going to be.

468. Ian B - October 27, 2010

Of course, the one big problem remains, which will probably be ignored; why hasn’t Spock Prime warned them of all these perils? Wouldn’t the first thing he does be to debrief to Starfleet about all these dangerous things they have yet to meet?

469. Jai - October 27, 2010

“Seven Days in May is one of my favorites too,”

It’s a superb film, and definitely another conspiracy thriller which I’d been meaning to recommend to Bob Orci as possible inspiration for the next Star Trek movie. I’m pleased to hear that he’s already seen it.

There was a really good DS9 two-parter which was directly inspired by that movie (“Homefront” and “Paradise Lost”) — it involved Sisko uncovering a conspiracy by his former commanding officer (played by Robert Foxworth — the bearded guy who used to be on Falcon Crest) to engineer a military coup by Starfleet and seize control of the Federation by using the threat from the Dominion as a pretext.

470. Thorny - October 27, 2010

410… “And as I have said earlier, no to Harry Mudd. He’s just too campy and not at all interesting. He’s a product of the 60’s, and should remain there.”

In “Mudd’s Women”, Harry Mudd was essentially involved in Human Trafficking. Human Trafficking (mostly but not only selling women as sex slaves) is a huge and under-reported problem in today’s world. This could serve as Trek 2012’s “topical” story in keeping with the TOS concept of addressing today’s issues in a futuristic setting. It would have to be a B-story in the movie, though, not enough meat there to carry a movie.

471. Jai - October 27, 2010

“Of course, the one big problem remains, which will probably be ignored; why hasn’t Spock Prime warned them of all these perils? Wouldn’t the first thing he does be to debrief to Starfleet about all these dangerous things they have yet to meet?”

Very true. And Section 31 in particular would be determined to get as much information as possible out of Spock Prime, by any means necessary and irrespective of whether he was a willing participant. He’s one of the biggest intelligence coups in Starfleet’s entire history.

Since Leonard Nimoy is highly unlikely to appear in the next film, realistically I guess the writers could possibly include a passing reference to Spock Prime being “currently very busy with high-level classified activities involving Starfleet Intelligence”.

472. trekprincess - October 27, 2010

The talosians would be awesome givin the big screen treatment

473. Red Dead Ryan - October 27, 2010


I don’t think Spock would reveal anything to change the new timeline any further. Plus, any information he reveals could be used for nefarious purposes, not just honest intentions. Also, he recognizes that what he, Kirk, McCoy and the rest of the crew experienced in the old timeline had brought them closer together as a family could all be taken away if he spoke out about his prior experiences and events he witnessed. Spock Prime wouldn’t want to rob his younger self of what he himself holds dear.


True. You make a good point about human trafficking. I was referring more to the character himself. He just seemed so goofy and over-the-top, almost like he came from the 60’s “Batman” series. To bring him into the sequel, the writers would have to change his personality and make him more serious. But if they did that, a lot of fans would complain that he isn’t “true” to the character as seen in TOS.

474. skyjedi2005 - October 27, 2010

It just gets worse all the time. I would rather have a Khan 2.0 than these cheesy characters like harry mudd, or trelane.

When people said they wanted stories with more substance and seriousness they did not mean go more ridiculous and more silly. While your at it why not just redo Spock’s Brain.

475. skyjedi2005 - October 27, 2010

Why not boldly go where no man has gone before. Not these are the voyages of the rehashed stories, do something new and original for pete’s sake. The reason people hated the last film and nemesis was because they were rehashed old crap.

476. Harry Ballz - October 27, 2010

451. “Harry, do you prefer a bottle(s) of red or white with a helping of Horta?”


“Yeah, gimmee a glass of your best white, with a plate of Talosians and hold the Horta!”

Mmmmmmm, brains……..can’t talk……….eating!

477. Harry Ballz - October 27, 2010

“Seven Days In May”


have you ever seen a movie called Executive Action made in 1973?

It’s a cheesy little flick about the Kennedy assassination, but it’s got a lot of heart to it!

478. skyjedi2005 - October 27, 2010

Why not make a zombie Kirk Prime the villain, and have him try and kill the doppelganger kirk from universe B.

Then Shatner Kirk could kick Pine Kirk’s butt.

479. Thorny - October 27, 2010

473… I’ve wondered what Spock Prime would do ever since Trek 2009. He may well decide that this alternate timeline is so hopelessly messed up that he could hardly make things worse. I would at least expect him to warn Starfleet about the two or three galactic apocalypses we saw in TOS (the Doomsday Machine wiped out lots of planetary systems, the Giant Amoeba ate at least one populated solar system, Nomad sterilized God alone knows how many civilizations.) He might decide that saving a few billion Nomad victims would make up for the loss of Vulcan, and for his “oops” in not saving Romulus.

480. jeff dahlberg - October 27, 2010

Please oh please resurrect Gary Seven

481. Buzz Cagney - October 27, 2010

Just saw RED at the cinema. Great fun and Karl was excellent in it. Really enjoyed it and him. Way to go Karl.
And way to go the whole team involved in it.

And back to you….

482. Buzz Cagney - October 27, 2010

#477 I’ve seen that, Harry. I found it a bit dull to be honest.
The best ever programme about the Kennedy assasination? That would be Red Dwarf episode (can’t remember the title) where they had a time travelling Kennedy assasinate himself to protect his reputation! Its really rather clever.

483. Midnight Tweed - October 27, 2010

I’m thinking it will be Charlie Evans from the TOS episode Charlie X.

484. Tiberius SubPrime - October 27, 2010

The next film could do lots of awesome head-games, ala Inception and Momento, if the Telosians were involved.

Strange things and memory games occur the first part of the film. Creating a feeling of unease and uncertainty in the audience.

By the middle of the film, Kirk realises something is wrong, and discovers they are being manipulated by the Telosians.

He then goes on to figure out that he and the Enterprise crew were sent to Talos IV to find Pike, who went there ahead of Kirk and vanished.

(Or Pike shows up to rescue Kirk and company.)

And the reason they were sent there in the first place is intelligence obtained from Spock Prime.

Just possibilities. If done well, it could be sleek and cool, dark and forebodding.

485. saavik001 - October 27, 2010

484. Sounds great to me!

486. Derg Gross - October 27, 2010

Sheeesh, HARRY MUDD?

Those episodes sucked in the first place! How about a musical…..”I am gonna snap my finga’s and jump for joy, I have a clean bill of health from Doctor McCoy!”

Come on guys, we wait long enough for a movie, why F(*^ it up with HARRY MUDD?

487. AJ - October 27, 2010


Had a crappy thought…

All the events of ST09 were created by the Talosians after the events of “Menagerie.”

Pike, Kirk, Spock, and the crew of Kirk’s Enterprise are all in their ‘cages.’ The ‘origin story’ and events with Nero were simply an illusion, and the crew that wakes up on Talos IV is exactly that one which arrived there to deliver the crippled Pike in ‘Menagerie.’ Yikes.

488. dmduncan - October 27, 2010

I’m wondering if they based Casey on Smedley Butler, another Marine who ACTUALLY blew the cover on a plot — to replace FDR with a “presidential assistant.” ?

459: “Doesn’t anyone else think that omnipotent god-people with MAGIC POWERS don’t make a whole lot of sense in science fiction?”

Yes, you are he only one. Read Lord of Light and tell me that’s not Science Fiction.

And heed AC Clarke:

“1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.”

“2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.”

“3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.”

489. dmduncan - October 27, 2010

he = the

490. Chuckunit - October 27, 2010


This would cover some interval of time, like the first film. it could cover:

Fleet Captain Garth of Izar, The Battle of Axanar, and the Enterprises role in the victory.

Garth’s subsequent maiming.

His recovery and breakdown, and defeat after his treatment at Antos IV.

We are rewriting Starfleet history. What is Garth somehow had managed, by deceiving his crew that Starfleet’s leadership had been the victim of a decapitaive strike, and actually succeed in committing genocide on the populace of Antos IV, with the Klingon Empire next on the list?

Kirk’s Enterprise, sent to take down the Starfleet’s most brilliant tactician and strategist, at the peak of his madness, commanding an effectively deceived crew with decades of experience and a state of the art Constitution Class Starship and at his command.

It’s the stakes of FAILSAFE, coupled with the grief of tearing down a legend and personal idol, and intergalactic Armageddon in the balance.

You heard it here first.

491. dmduncan - October 27, 2010

In some ways, the cheapness of TOS actually made it seem bigger.

I mean, you can come up with all sorts of imaginary technology that explains how the Talosians can do what they do, but it’s more mystifying NOT having any technical sounding explanation. And by leaving that mystery it makes the universe portrayed seem bigger, and our knowledge smaller. And TOS capitalized on that advantage with aliens like the Talosians, Organians, etc.

Otherwise, if you try to extrapolate only from what we know RIGHT NOW, you’re going to think a, b, c are possible and x, y, z are impossible, so why bother with x, y, z? And then you’re going to write dated stories that reflect the limited thinking of the time in which it was created.

I think part of the reason TOS is still so watchable is that it’s budget and knowledge deficiencies became conceptual strengths. We don’t need to know how the Talosians do what they do, which is good because we DON’T know how such things may be possible. Theories which might account for it SOMEDAY are in their infancy NOW. And it may well be that science, religion, and philosophy all have to meet to complete our understanding…

Which raises questions about the character of the Talosians. Can you achieve that kind of power and still be a “villain”?

Angels may look like demons when they come to separate you from your stubborn illusions.

Another interesting idea: Using illusions to destroy illusions. Not something simple baddies would do perhaps…

492. Harry Ballz - October 27, 2010



yes, I’ve seen the Red Dwarf episodes. Funny (and clever) stuff!

493. dmduncan - October 27, 2010

Alternatively, you can make Talosians masters of a holodeck-like planet. Less challenging.

494. john - October 27, 2010

I hope it’s not Harry Mudd , my God was that an annoying character! I hope it’s Gary Mitchell!

495. Daoud - October 27, 2010

@490 Indeed. I’ve said repeatedly that the potential storylines using the character of Garth, and Axanar are prime. Those stories never were really told. Nor how Kirk was involved. It could still play out the same as in the prime universe… or not!

Plus, GARTH is a great name for a villain! :) (And just have his first officer be Number One, and his helmsman Gary Mitchell and we’re all good.)

Even Axanar provides a nice ST:ENT tie in! Could even use the same alien makeup design…. and it even gives a backdoor to use Archer. (Ambassador Archer lives on Axanar, perhaps? Searching for his lost shaker of beagle….)

496. Daoud - October 27, 2010

@490 Indeed. I’ve said repeatedly that the potential storylines using the character of Garth, and Axanar are prime. Those stories never were really told. Nor how Kirk was involved. It could still play out the same as in the prime universe… or not!

Plus, GARTH is a great name for a villain! :) (And just have his first officer be Number One, and his helmsman Gary Mitchell and we’re all good.)

Even Axanar provides a nice ST:ENT tie in! Could even use the same alien makeup design…. and it even gives a backdoor to use Archer. (Ambassador Archer lives on Axanar, perhaps? Searching for his lost shaker of beagle….)

497. John from Cincinnati - October 27, 2010

Why do all the worry-worts think by just having the Talosians in the sequel means it’s going to be a rehash?

I think the writers are talented enough to tell a new story with the old villains. I mean, how many episodes were there with Klingons in them? Cerrtainly, a highly powerful race with the power of illusion are capable of much more than just what was seen in ‘The Cage’.

A superior alien race, on the brink of extinction, and the good ship Enterprise enters orbit. The possibilities are endless…

498. Mike At 5280 - October 27, 2010

I will be very disappointed if the writers are already raiding TOS for storylines. Seriously, can we please take this series in a new direction – give us something new to talk instead of a re-hash? They have a license to be creative – I really hope they haven’t squandered it for the sake of nostalgia.

499. John from Cincinnati - October 27, 2010


And folks, get a hold of yourselves. Star Trek history is not being rewritten. The “PRIME” universe is still alive and well. The new Star Trek movies exist in an alternate reality. BOTH universes exist. So NEW stories are being written, not old ones being re-written.

500. John from Cincinnati - October 27, 2010


Storylines or characters?

Didn’t they already raid TOS when they decided on using Kirk, Spock, McCoy etc instead of a new ship with a new crew?

501. John from Cincinnati - October 27, 2010

I’m surprised the same people who are freaked out by the Talosians or Gary Mitchell don’t also complain about the new Batman movies having, heaven forbid, the Joker and the Scarecrow.

Christopher Nolan you bad boy! Rehashing old Batman stories! Can’t you created some NEW villains for Batman? Waaaa waa waaa

502. StarFuryG7 - October 27, 2010

#382. Corinthian7
“Got to disagree with you on that StarFuryG7, i’m delighted that Damon Lindelof has had a hand in writing the script given how much I admire his work on Lost,”

The sideways alternate universe was a complete and utter waste of time in every regard. It accomplished and amounted to absolutely nothing.

503. Sarah - October 27, 2010

Hat Rick: Thanks for the reply, but I respectfully disagree. Bill Murray’s come a long way since Groundhog Day. His Indy stuff is pretty good, and I hear he’s a good villan in the upcoming Passion Play. Get Low was pretty good, too.

504. Phil - October 27, 2010

475. skyjedi2005 – October 27, 2010

Almost 400 million in world wide box office dosen’t exactly mean everyone hated it. Nemesis is another story….

505. RaymondS - October 27, 2010

I haven’t read through all these replies, but a thought comes to mind. Since the prime timeline is gone, wouldn’t it have been ‘logical’ for Prime Spock to be debriefed as to potential dangers that await the crew? For example, common sense dictates that he would have warned about the galactic barrier and its effects on crew members such as Dr. Dehner and Gery Mitchell. The same goes for Talos IV, Trelane, the Horta and any other number of potential dangers. As for Harry Mudd though, Prime Spock might not list him as a serious threat, just a nuisance. And what if, via the changed timeline, Harry Mudd was now a psychologically twisted dangerous nut? One previous post mentioned a personality as deranged as Heath Ledger’s Joker. Anything could have happened to him in the new timeline.

I’m not saying I’m in favor of the Mudd idea, but of those listed it is more possible than the others (assuming Spock gave an information dump). Or maybe they are ALL meant to mislead us, and perhaps they will all be mentioned/used at some point.

506. Travis - October 27, 2010

how about the THOLIANS….. Anybody????

507. Hat Rick - October 27, 2010

503 (Sarah), I must say I haven’t seen his indie stuff. I’m sure it must be quite good.

I did see The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou by the brilliant Wes Anderson, and I liked it less than Groundhog Day, but then again, it was a different kind of movie.

I thought Dafoe was hilarious. I’ve always imagined the Intense Dafoe of Platoon fame, and to see him in such a broad and clownish role was refreshing.

I loved the casting choices in Zissou, by the way.

Not to get too off-topic, of course.

508. somethoughts - October 27, 2010


This is where Genetic Engineering comes in, maybe a nice tie in to Khan with the Talosians.

The Talosians were based on the popular alien abductions back in the 60s, they are based and inspired by the grays.

509. dmduncan - October 27, 2010

How about the Borg again. But with a twist: Kirk and Co. meet the Borg in the 23rd Century, and we discover that the Borg are actually time travelers from 500 years further in the future. And then we learn the awful dark secret: The Borg traces it’s most embryonic phase of existence to 21st century Earth:


Strike the “Don’t Be.” It’s just “Evil” now.

No creepier ads on TV than Droid, where you become your phone.

510. Hat Rick - October 27, 2010

That would kind of explain why they named their mini-me OS, Android. ;-)

511. Thorny - October 27, 2010

502… You do realize it was never a sideways/alternate universe, right? It was the afterlife. Bold choice. Not one I would have made, but I applaud them for not doing the expected.

512. Thorny - October 27, 2010

501… By the way, did you hear the next Batman movie is titled “Dark Knight Rising”? Sheesh! Let the jokes begin.

Mr. Orci, if you’re still following this mammoth thread, PLEASE come up with a better name for Trek 2012 than THAT.

513. Hat Rick - October 27, 2010

^^ Such as “Star Trek: Convergence.”

I like that title. It is the convergence of realities — and of reality and illusion — and of personalities and timelines and philosophies of life.

As a title, it rocks.

If I do say so myself.

514. somethoughts - October 27, 2010


It’s actually called Dark Knight Rises and the Riddler will not be in it.

515. somethoughts - October 27, 2010


516. Bill Peters - October 27, 2010

I hope it is Triline. any of them would be fun for the next movie, I like to see JJ take on Klingons as well and the others up there.

517. gingerly - October 27, 2010

Personally I think they should go with either
Star Trek II
Star Trek XII

518. Basement Blogger - October 28, 2010

I agree with Anthony’s assessment on the rumored villains. Trelane would not be good for the film. He’s too comical and childlike for cinematic treatment. The best of the group are the Talosians. First, they might come off as bad but we find out that they really don’t understand humans. They’re a complicated and serious adversary that would be a fine “villain” for the film. Interesting because they come from “The Cage” the original pilot for Star Trek. It was deemed to be too cerebral by NBC. (Wiki link below.) Even though this is an alternate universe, Spock Prime could warn the Federation of the Talosians. If the writers are looking at the Talosians as adversaries, I applaud them. That’s a “cerebral” approach that I would love to see in furture Star Trek films. And remember “Dark Knight” “Inception” and “Iron Man” were smart. They also made a ton of money.

I still think if the writers want to use adversaries or situations from the original series, then “The Doomsday Machine” would be a great show tor cinematic treatment. The planet killer could now be done with justice. And you could put those glorious TOS progressive themes into the movie since they existed in the show. Arms control. Maybe you could add newer themes. How about having adversaries, say the Romulans and humans work together to stop the planet killer?

519. Jai - October 28, 2010

Re: #473

“I don’t think Spock would reveal anything to change the new timeline any further. Plus, any information he reveals could be used for nefarious purposes, not just honest intentions. Also, he recognizes that what he, Kirk, McCoy and the rest of the crew experienced in the old timeline had brought them closer together as a family could all be taken away if he spoke out about his prior experiences and events he witnessed. Spock Prime wouldn’t want to rob his younger self of what he himself holds dear.”

I would have to politely disagree — I think Spock Prime would take a “needs of the many” viewpoint and decide to do what’s in the best long-term interests of the Federation, even if that means possibly risking the benefits of his own “younger self” experiences. In any case, the latter may be a moot point, as this is an alternate universe and, to some extent, the future is unwritten — the Enterprise crew aren’t necessarily going to have the experiences which brought them closer in the prime timeline (or at least, not the same experiences).

So for argument’s sake, let’s assume that Spock Prime has confidentially given the higher echelons of Starfleet Command and the Federation government a huge amount of intelligence about what’s “out there”, either voluntarily or via Section 31’s machinations (or both).

Following on from that, there’s a lot of scope for the next Star Trek movie being a really exciting “Seven Days in May”-style political thriller, especially in terms of your point about information being used for nefarious purposes. If the most senior figures in Starfleet already know about the various threats in the galaxy — not only from TOS, but also DS9, Voyager, and some of the movies — then that could include people who will decide that the best way to safeguard the Federation is to pre-emptively eliminate/neutralise those threats. It could even include a variation of the “One Percent doctrine”, especially as the genocidal destruction of Vulcan could provide them with a way to plausibly justify their actions.

Tying that in to the “Seven Days in May” theme, the movie could show senior Starfleet officers correspondingly setting a plan in motion to engineer a political coup, backed by Section 31 and led by a determined & respected Admiral who inspires tremendous loyalty and has an outstanding career history (I was thinking that George Clooney or Jon Hamm might be good choices for the “Burt Lancaster” part, as they have the right personas and the appropriate charisma). Kirk & co uncover this plot and go all out to try to prevent it from succeeding.

This also has scope to address the issue of Kirk being “promoted to the captainship too quickly” — the Admiral involved could condescendingly dismiss Kirk’s objections by saying he’s far too naive and inexperienced to know what he’s talking about. In fact, the Admiral could be one of Pike’s friends, so there’s scope for conflict on that front too (including Pike being torn between Kirk and his friend, especially if thinks that — to a great extent, albeit not entirely — the other Admiral is indeed justified in his stance).

The Klingons could also be brought into the story. Considering that the Klingon Empire is basically the Federation’s main rival at this point, the conspirators could decide that pre-emptively attacking the Klingons is the best move. So you have ample scope for the movie to show the Klingons as “grand strategy chessplayers” along with truly ruthless warriors, yet not necessarily being outright villains, as they’re acting defensively in response to Federation aggression.

And similarly, the protagonists in Starfleet aren’t necessarily black-and-white heroes or villains either, as the “Burt Lancaster” admiral and his co-conspirators genuinely believe that they’re doing what’s necessary to safeguard the Federation and hopefully save the billions of lives that they know will be lost if they don’t act, thanks to Spock Prime’s information about the future and the rest of the galaxy.

To draw some real world parallels: If the US knew in advance that Imperial Japan was planning to attack Pearl Harbour, would the US have been justified in attacking Japan first ? If the Allied powers knew at the start of the 1930s that Germany would trigger WW2 and also cause the Holocaust, would they have been justified in attacking Germany first or assassinating Hitler (either before he rose to power, or early in his rule) ? If the US had already had access to nuclear weapons technology (parallels with Spock Prime’s advanced technological knowledge), would they have been justified in using it against cities in Nazi Germany or much earlier in the conflict with Japan ? If the West had already known that the Taliban would rise to power in Afghanistan and shelter Osama bin Laden & Al Qaeda’s leadership, would the US have been justified in pre-emptively launching a full-scale military attack against Afghanistan in order to prevent 9/11 ?

And would American military commanders have been justified in initiating a political coup in the US government so that they could implement these plans, especially if the White House strongly objected to these pre-emptive military attacks ?

If the writers of the next Star Trek movie really do want to make an adult, intelligent, nuanced film in the vein of “The Dark Knight”, with a gripping political theme and many thought-provoking aspects involving contemporary events & issues which the audience would definitely relate to (which is also why RDM’s rebooted “Battlestar Galactica” was so good, especially the earlier seasons), then this would definitely be one way to do it. The story practically writes itself.

520. InSaint - October 28, 2010

My bet: Tholians or Darvin.

521. John from Cincinnati - October 28, 2010

505. – Where do you get your wild ideas? The Prime timeline is alive and well for the simple fact that Prime Spock didn’t disappear when he appeared in the new parallel universe. Here’s what Bob Orci, you know the writer and supreme court member of Star Trek 09 says:

199. boborci – August 15, 2009
Actually, there is a bit of implied evidence that the Prime universe still exists, and that is the fact that Spock Prime does not disappear! Chances that young spock will fall into a black hole 100 years later while being pursued by Nero are VERY SLIM. In a linear universe, therefore, Spock Prime’s presence would likely be affected by changing his past. But it didn’t. Also, he jokes with young Spock about Kirk’s assumptions when he says, “He (KIRK) assumed universe ending paradoxes would ensue…” essentially saying Kirk thought it was all linear time travel, not QMMWI.

522. Jai - October 28, 2010

Just a quick clarification of something I wrote in #519:

“This also has scope to address the issue of Kirk being “promoted to the captainship too quickly” — the Admiral involved could condescendingly dismiss Kirk’s objections by saying he’s far too naive and inexperienced to know what he’s talking about. In fact, the Admiral could be one of Pike’s friends, so there’s scope for conflict on that front too (including Pike being torn between Kirk and his friend, especially if thinks that — to a great extent, albeit not entirely — the other Admiral is indeed justified in his stance).”

I was referring to the other Admiral’s “pre-emptive attack” stance, not his patronising stance towards the young Captain Kirk. Pike obviously wouldn’t think the latter was justified.

Anyway, apologies for the long post in #519, but hopefully there are some interesting ideas in there. I think it covers plenty of relevant bases — it’s got direct consequences of the events depicted in ST09, historical & contemporary parallels which most of the audience will be able to relate to, life-or-death moral dilemmas with no easy answers, political scheming, shadowy intelligence organisations, military decisions whose impact would span the galaxy, no “outright villains” in the traditional sense, idealism vs. pragmatism, Admiral Pike, and Klingons. And if people are looking for an epic scenario which would push Kirk and the Enterprise crew to the very limit and really test what they’re made of, this would definitely do it.

523. paul mitt - October 28, 2010

I agree with 521.

524. Phil - October 28, 2010

512. Thorny – October 27, 2010

How about
Star Trek: Rise of the Vulcans
Star Trek: Reloaded
Star Trek: Grow Up
Star Trek: Really, you’re the Captain?

525. AJ - October 28, 2010

For all those who ‘want something new,’ wouldn’t it be great if the rumored new Star Wars sequels had no mention whatsoever of Darth Vader or the Skywalker tweens? And (fingers crossed), not one inkling about the Jedi or the Empire or the rebellion?

Just a clean slate in another part of the galaxy.

The secondary characters of TOS are very much an important piece of that show’s history. They help define many of those eps we hold dear, and I believe, should be freely subject to reinterpretation by the boys in Hollywood if it leads to a barnburner of a story.

526. Don Mallery - October 28, 2010

I merely gave my opinion about an actor’s work and I expected others’ opinions on his work as a result of my comments and some did so in an adult manner. You, also, gave your opinion. However, you seemed to take my comments about Chris Pine as personal, because you also gave your opinion of me.

This isn’t a site for criticizing other fans, but you made it one.

I only have one thing to say. You seem so enamored over Chris Pine, maybe you are him in disguise. Now try to contain yourself. Thank you.

527. Paul Mitt - October 28, 2010

I agree with Mallery. You did not have to take it so personal. Let us all be kind now.

528. Forrest - October 28, 2010

I hope they’ll remember — if and when — that “The Cage” was essentially GR’s sequel to FORBIDDEN PLANET. I always hoped that Next Generation would cram in a reference to Commander Adams of the NCC-57-D…

529. joe - October 28, 2010

I’m new posting anything but I must put my two cents in. I have to admit that I did not like the way it was reported that Bones replaced Mitchell as Kirk’s best friend in the new movie. I have always said and I will always say that even in the prime universe McCoy and Kirk had to have been very close friends before serving on the Enterprise together. A man just would not call his captain by his first name and tell him off every other day and get away with it if they were not close friends and a captian would not give a member of his crew a nickname like Bones if they were not already friends. I know that McCoy was not in the episode WNMHGB and he was’nt even mentioned but that really does not mean much but I do think it is possible and highly probable that McCoy was close friends with both Kirk and Mitchell in the academy and I think the Abrams movie had a good explaination as to why McCoy would be in the academy at the same time as Kirk despite thier age difference. If McCoy was happy living on Earth with his wife and working as a doctor on Earth and then felt he had no choice but go into space after a divorce that would explain his presence in the academy with Kirk in the prime universe as well as the new.

530. Harry Ballz - October 28, 2010

joe, welcome to the club! you should post more often!

531. John from Cincinnati - October 28, 2010

I think all the TOS haters dreams of new worlds and new aliens went out the window when they decided to reboot the series with Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, Uhura, Chekov et al.

532. Brian K - October 28, 2010


Welcome! But perhaps you didn’t get the memo. This is a NEW timeline. The characters may be the same, but their circumstances are not, so any relationships inferred or referred to in the OS are irrelevant, at least in the new films.

That’s a fact most canonista’s have yet to grasp, after 2 years. MEH!

The characters are meeting at different times (earlier) and with a different set of circumstances than the OS timeline. So to unequivically state that “so-and-so wouldn’t do this or that” is ridiculous.

533. Brian K - October 28, 2010

My wish: The Talosians. The Menagerie haunted me as a teen when I saw it. Later, when I saw The Cage in it’s restored glory, I really got it. Such a great concept. And the possibilities with Pike and Kirk facing this together……..

534. Brian K - October 28, 2010

Plus, at the time, I thought the makeup work was phenomenal! Those enormous heads with pulsing veins, the androgeny of the Talosians, great stuff for 60’s TV! Talk about Halloween! They need to duplicate that look perfectly, no fake looking CGI……..

535. RaymondS - October 28, 2010

#521- John from Cincinnati:

Of course you are right; the prime timeline is still alive and well somewhere out there. I meant it no disrespect, although that was not the point of my post. It was more of my mispeaking and not a “wild idea.” I was more interested in discussing actions Prime Spock may or may not take in the new universe. I love how #519 (Jai) fills out the controversial elements that could come into play with the knowledge Spock has of future potential events and how the Federation could use his knowledge to prevent them.

536. joe - October 28, 2010


Are you saying that every circumstance must be different? I am not so sure I can accept that myself but I will consider what you said.

I would like to know however since this is a new timeline or universe why can’t we see somebody or something or some alien race that we have never seen before?

537. Brian K - October 28, 2010

Who says we won’t? But they still have to cater to us Trek fans and throw us a bone or two, and get us to go multiple times to the theater. It’s still Hollywood, all about the money.

538. KevinA Melbourne Australia - October 28, 2010

Do an under ground world like the Krell!
Instead of “FORBIDDEN PLANET” now its

539. Harry Ballz - October 28, 2010

A backward planet? KInd of like Bizarro world? A Bizarro Kirk? A Bizarro Spock?

What, a Bizarro Spock just keeps laughing and crying all the time?

Ooooooh, scary!

540. somethoughts - October 28, 2010

541. somethoughts - October 28, 2010

fascinating, bob’s red matter at work, maybe a Philadelphia type sci fi star trek experiment.

542. Red Dead Ryan - October 28, 2010


Just who are these “TOS haters” you speak of?

543. Sean O - October 29, 2010

Talosians would be awesome and have the most potential.

Please god no Harry Mudd unless we are doing a comedy and Will Ferrell is Harry Mudd.

The Doomsday Device is an easy pick but a lame story that doesn’t apply to this day and age.

How about a reworking of “He who mourns for Adonis”

544. pitbull2 - October 29, 2010

how about something new with more action. If you re do the same old stuff its not going to work

545. Lord Garth, formerly of Izar - October 29, 2010

AHEM!! AHEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


546. Harry Ballz - October 29, 2010


Funny how AHEM rhymes with PHLEGM! You should see a doctor about that!

Lord Garth, my old friend! You’re still alive??!!

547. somethoughts - October 30, 2010

Another time traveler caught on film

548. DGill - October 30, 2010

The Talosians would be an interesting choice, but they would have to be retooled since the new Trek is more action-oriented. On a side note, I don’t think Pike is coming back. Remember, ‘Trek 09′ was all about passing the torch. Spock and Pike were appropriate for the last film, but the new cast really needs to breathe and move forward with this one.

At this point, speculation is all we have, but it’s a great way to pass the time until genuine facts leak out.

549. mad fan - October 30, 2010

J. J Abrams is the villain. Who else poses such a huge threat to the Trek universe?

It would be cool if Abrams was in the movie and Spock tried to mind-meld, but couldn’t due to the lack of neurological functions

550. Tom - October 30, 2010

My vote would be for the Talosions. I think “The Cage” was the coolest star trek ever!! It was a little like star trek meets the x-files.

551. MikeZ - October 30, 2010

I’d rather have a story that features Kang, Koloth and Kor.

552. Harry Ballz - October 30, 2010

“Kang, Koloth and Kor”

Say THAT five times really fast! :>)

553. Hat Rick - October 30, 2010

Sounds like a Klingon law firm.


554. pfii63 - October 31, 2010

Don’t forget the Tholians!

555. Harry Ballz - October 31, 2010


Yes, except, unfortunately, their stationary had the letters “KKK” embossed on it!


556. dmduncan - October 31, 2010

555. Harry Ballz – October 31, 2010


557. Jeff Bowles - October 31, 2010

Forgive me.

They could stumble across “The Guardian of Forever.” After all, it IS a time wipe-out that created the alternate Star Trek timeline that we’re now seeing, and the Guardian would comment on it.

558. Harry Ballz - October 31, 2010


Thanks, dmduncan! I get the impression it takes quite a bit to get a “lol” from you!

559. Russell Gurney - November 1, 2010

Kor “it would have been glorious” Maybe it can, or maybe Kang

560. Harry Ballz - November 1, 2010

Did you hear about the chick who spent a weekend with both Kang and Kor?

Yeah, apparently she ended up with a “Kang/Kor sore”!

(runs and hides)

561. Gary Mitchell - November 1, 2010

People, it IS the Talosians! Spock Prime is gonna lead the remainders of the Vulcan people to TALOS IV in order to rebuilt the Vulcan society. Remembers him stating he “has already found a suitable planet for the survivors”???

But the Talos are not amused to become …It serves as a vehicle for adressing the Middle East conflict. The Talosians are basically the Palestinians and the Vulcans symbolize the Jews after World War 2. But instead of suicide bombings, the Talosians fight back with illusions.

T’Pring will serve as a major supporting character and it seems as if Nimoy will have to come out of retirement one more time (as he has already done for another appearance on Fringe)…

Rumor has it that Kirk will be confronted with one helluva fearful vision created by the Talosians. He will be old and fat and will have to sing “I’m gonna die”…

562. Harry Ballz - November 1, 2010

Oh, thank gawd, I thought you were gonna say he had to sing ROCKET MAN!!

563. bob - November 1, 2010

It will be a remake of the trouble with tribbles twenty bucks

564. n1701ncc - November 2, 2010

Great stuff

Star Trek 2 – Talosians and Shanter gets in the movie

Star Trek 3 – An evil twisted Harry Mudd. I like that one alot very promising

Star Trek 4 – Kirk meets Q .. Trelane and John Delance… Are you changelling me to duel.

Star Trek 5 – Apollo – The Greek Gods get even angrier

Star trek 6 – The Balance of Terror – The war with the Romulans with the Klingons playing both sides

Star Trek 7 – City on the Edge of Forever – The return of the Guardian and this time someone stops 9-11 from happening

Star trek 8 – I forgot the name of this eposide but its the one that Spock gets infected with the plasma that makes you go mad, this time makes him go evil.

Star Trek 9 – The Return of the Organians. The Federation and the Klingons are at war with each other until the Organians raid the party but not until some great action takes place

Star Trek 10 – Shore leave with a Twist .. Finnagan is nuts and takes control of the Enterprise and sets out to destroy Starfleet headquarters because he didn’t get to become captain of a star ship.

565. The Trouble with Tribbles - November 3, 2010

How about evil Tribbles?

566. The Trouble with Tribbles - November 3, 2010

Maybe a mix between the cute furry Tribbles with the killer instict of the Killer Rabbit in Monty Python and the Holy Grail!

567. Kahless - November 4, 2010

I’ve said it before: Paul Giamatti as Harry Mudd – smuggling some kind of eternal youth gadget, which backfires and ages Kirk by 50 years (cameo by William Shatner). Scotty then uses the transporter to remedy the aging effect but SPLITS Kirk into two (old Kirk being the evil one). This would enable Pine and the Shat to interact / overcome their conflict and deal with Mudd.

568. Harry Ballz - November 4, 2010



569. startrekfan 4lyfe - November 5, 2010

They need to do a story line and villian that isnt from the original series, but it would be kind cool if Sisko made an appearance whether it be to return Spock Prime to his original timeline or whatnot

570. startrekfan 4lyfe - November 5, 2010

Should also do a sidestory involving Kirk and Carol Marcus

571. ADMIRAL DAX - November 5, 2010

I hate the time-line they are using. Going back doesn’t do it for me. The Picard/Janeway timeline is what I consider current and the Voyeger series ended with some very interesting circumstances including new technology that would have made the Federation very formidable with it’s ship defenses.

I like the new crew and the last movie was great. But I miss the Next Generation time-line.

572. A fan - November 5, 2010

I’ve said on other postings that I felt a re-invented Harry Mudd would be an awesome villain. It’s a new Star Trek, this Harry Mudd would not have to be a comic relief. I see him as a thorn-in-Kirk’s side, maybe from his days as a criminal and he expects Kirk to cut him in on a piece of the Starfleet action. Mudd could be some sort of wicked bad space pirate, a mean guy nobody would want to cross.

573. GK - November 6, 2010

Talosians…they want Kirk 1.0. A way to brink Shatner back for one last appearance.

574. melranpie - November 7, 2010

Has anyone considered a “Mirror, Mirror” story line. The entire cast could be good and evil

575. Lenny De Tomaso - November 8, 2010

Please not the same villians.
They were good the first time.
Think up new one’s. That is what the fans want.

576. jimnfl - November 9, 2010

I suppose that given we are looking at a “Trek” now occurring in an alternate time-line in which everything is now somewhat different, the manner and circumstances of first encounters with ANY given nemises could be changed-up/altered/re-timed.
My personal opinion would be that using any pre-existing Trek alien/villain would end up being what the producers have expressed an interest in staying away from however… that being a re-make of an episode from the origional series.
I think it needs to be something totally new and unique to this Trek timeline.
Definately NOT one having to do with time-lines and alternate realities or universes again either.
I mean really… Involving time-related issues…
We’ve had the gaurdian episode, the “Spock goes back to the ice-age” episode, the “Enterprise goes back in time and accidently beams a ’60’s fighter pilot aboard”, the “go back and get the whales” movie, the “Sisko and crew deal with tribbles” incident, the “future Janeway” helps the “present Janeway” story line and on and on… (not to mention the ’09 future Romulan threat that changes everything” movie itself)
The alternate universe/charactor issue has been done as well, in just about every Trek story-line (original, STTNG, DS9, etc).
New time-line… fresh story-line… IMHO.

577. Paul Mitt - November 12, 2010

I think it should be a fresh story line too. It seems that is what the new time line is all about.

578. Eric - November 17, 2010


579. startrekfan4lyfe - November 18, 2010

Xindi, special appearance of admiral archer

580. Andy - November 25, 2010

One that is missing is the Gorn. A very vicious and dangerous enemy that was never exploed after the Arena episode.

581. Coty Aton - November 26, 2010

Gary or Talosians would be cool but… the mirror mirror idea in general as “villains” would rule IMO also i want to see Admiral Archer as well… maybe have his beagle reappear in the background lolz

582. Coty Aton - November 26, 2010

Also please give me a new ST series completely unrelated to this timeline, sticking with the original timeline, It’s about darn time CBS!!!

583. Preston - November 26, 2010

First of all this is all set after the got out of the academy and before the series even started. they were trying to build up to TOS. So i think they are going to create up some new villin because:

#1. New timeline
#2 Before any of the choices

My guess is that there going to get many movies out of the aspect that now they dont have to stick with TOS. So im taking anything about this rumor as bs

584. charlie - November 28, 2010

Bring on the GORN!!!

585. Eric Gisin - December 10, 2010

Giant man-eating, mind-controlling Tribbles.

586. Mike - December 11, 2010

Hard to see how having the Talosians would be very interesting and anything but a rehash. After all, what else could they really do again except kidnap some Starfleet offices (Pike or anyone else) and do their mind control number on them again. The Squire of Gothos would be good!

587. Boring Guy - December 27, 2010

Who says there has to be a villain at all? That’s fairly predictable. Zzzzzzzzz. There are plenty of other things that can happen out there, why does there need to be a bad guy? When Jean Luc Picard got zapped by a coolio probe and lived a whole nother lifetime in just a few minutes, it was some of the best TV ever made and it was an ORIGINAL IDEA. Now that should have been a movie.
Anyway, they have to find a way to work in “The Shat” before he gets embalmed. They must really be feeling the regret of not using Vic Tayback in a movie before it was too late. RIP Jojo Krako.

588. Paul Mitt - December 29, 2010

How about the sire of the very first tribble on a rampage, trying to get revenge on all who have harmed even one single tribble.

589. Paul Mitt - December 30, 2010

P.S. He could be like a menacing Chewbacca with road (space) rage.

590. danny - June 23, 2011

Khan is from the original series, you do know that right? He reappeared in Wrath of Khan, but he was marooned on that planet for trying to take over the Enterprise in the original series episode Space Seed.. So your assumption could be all wrong, and it actually could be khan.

591. Battman - September 29, 2011

If I have to go along with one of the villains Faraci mentioned, only the Talosians would be versatile enough to carry a movie well.

Frankly, I’m disappointed; earlier rumors were that the Gorn would be the next movie’s villains. I was looking forward to that, and I figure by the third movie, they could sign Javier Bardem to play Khan (as well he should).

I’m looking forward to some fun future timeline ripples, too, such as Khan encountering the Klingons before the Feds, and inadvertently touching off a war between the KE and the UFP.

592. MegaBearsFan - December 19, 2011

My bet is on the Horta. Peter Weller’s agent said that Weller would be playing a “C.E.O.” character. That classification seems to make Mudd or the Horta the top candidates, and my bet goes to the Horta. I suspect that Weller will be playing the role of the C.E.O. of a mining company that encounters the Horta eggs and asks for assistance from the Enterprise.

Although personally, I think that Garth of Izar would have made for a much more interesting villain at this point in the new crew’s career:

It won’t be Mitchell, because the IDW comics are supposed to be canon in the new universe, and they already did a retelling of “Where No Man Has Gone Before”.

593. MegaBearsFan - December 19, 2011

Think of this from the studio’s perspective: They want to make a summer blockbuster that is going to sell a berjillion tickets, right? Which means the movie has to appeal to the “casual audience” (i.e. “morons”). And what is the number one rule for making a movie intended for morons – I mean “casual audiences”? Don’t make them have to think too hard.

The Talosians won’t work because they’d be too “intellectual”. The same would probably go for Trelane, although the idea of a demi-god being might allow for just enough fancy special effects to keep the idiot – I mean “casual” – audience’s attention. Gary Mitchell won’t happen because it was already in the comics (see my post above).

That leaves: Mudd or Horta. Mudd earns instant plausibility because he could easily be a minor character written into a plot revolving around Klingons and/or tribbles, which are two of the most iconic Star Trek images and are very likely to be involved in the next movie. The Horta also deserves serious consideration because IT’S A LIVING ROCK MONSTER!

As for all of you saying Mirror Universe, that won’t happen. Abrams’ movie just created a whole new timeline/universe that many movie-goers found confusing even though the split in the timeline was explicitly explained IN THE MOVIE! Splitting off into a new parallel mirror universe would just be incorporating too many alternate universes and would only confuse stupid movie-goers even more. is represented by Gorilla Nation. Please contact Gorilla Nation for ad rates, packages and general advertising information.