Simon Pegg Talks Excitement & Secrecy For Star Trek 2012 + Confirms Set Aside August/September To Shoot | TrekMovie.com
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Simon Pegg Talks Excitement & Secrecy For Star Trek 2012 + Confirms Set Aside August/September To Shoot March 14, 2011

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Celebrity,Sci-Fi,ST09 Cast,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Simon Pegg, Star Trek’s new Scotty, has been on big promotional tour for his new sci-fi comedy Paul, opening this weekend in the USA. And along the way he has talked a bit more about the buzz on the Star Trek sequel. He has also confirmed when Paramount has asked him to set aside time to shoot it.

 

Pegg talks "excitement" at Bad Robot + secrecy + confirms August/September shoot

In a radio interview with WAAF in Boston, MA, Simon Pegg and his Paul co-star Nick Frost were asked about the Star Trek sequel, the pair talked about the buzz and joked about the secrecy. Here is the exchange:

Simon Pegg: I’m hearing great things about the script. There is a lot of excitement at [JJ Abrams production company] Bad Robot about it. We are always the last to know because they don’t trust us with information.

Nick Frost: The one thing I can say – I shouldn’t – but apparently it is set in space. (laughs)

Pegg: That’s true. (laughs) I’m going to get in big trouble for that. … It is all very secretive. With the first one I was in a hotel room and a guy came with the script and I had to read it while he waited outside the door for me to give it back to him. That is because it is so difficult to keep a secret these days.

And in an interview with Dublin’s City TV Pegg talked more about about the sequel buzz he is hearing:

Pegg: I am one of those people [who want to know what is coming in the Star Trek sequel]. I know its being written and they are very happy with the script so far. JJ [Abrams] is finishing up Super 8 and we are waiting to get to work on it, which will hopefully be in the summertime. I am as excited as everyone else.

On Sunday Pegg and the Paul team were at the SXSW Film Fest in Austin, TX. Since we have seen many production dates thrown around by the cast, TrekMovie asked our friend and fellow Trekkie Jordan Hoffman (who is covering the event for UGO) to press Simon on if he was guessing or if he has been asked to set time aside. The actor confirmed that studio has told him to "keep August and September open" for his return to the role of Scotty in the Star Trek sequel.

So it does look like things continue to move forward on the unnamed Star Trek film due in theaters June 29, 2012. Based on comments from writers and cast, it looks like pre-production could get started by April, with production going by August. It is worth noting that even if Pegg is only shooting for two months, the production will likely take longer. Principle photography for the 2009 Star Trek lasted four months (including a Holiday break), but Pegg was only required for less than two months.


Simon Pegg, Nick Frost, Kristen Wiig & director Greg Mattola – "Paul" screening at SXSW – Austin, TX Sunday March 13th

Paul opens this weekend

Simon’s new comedy Paul opens in the North America on Friday March 18th.  The film about two geeks on a road trip across America who befriend a real alien is getting good buzz and has been a hit in the UK. Written by Frost and Pegg, it is no surprise that Paul is full of sci-fi references including some from Star Trek. The most prominent Trek bit is a trip to Vasquez Rocks to re-enact the Kirk/Gorn fight scene from "Arena".

For more read Jordan’s review at UGO.com, and here is a new commercial touting the good reviews for the film. 

Comments

1. Buzz Cagney - March 14, 2011

Nick Frost= Harry Mudd? Yeh, i’m seeing that. Or maybe i’m not!
Still, at least i didn’t shout about beinf Firsttttt!

2. CJS - March 14, 2011

While were at it Kristen Wiig = Janice Lester.

3. James - March 14, 2011

I think Simon Pegg is the most optimistic/outspoken when it comes to the next Star Trek film.

That’s alright by me, just shows how much he loves what he does and is excited about getting started on the next installment!

4. Basement Blogger - March 14, 2011

Nick Frost is a hoot. “The one thing I can say – I shouldn’t – but apparently it is set in space. ” Ha. ha, ha.

It’s now time for the J.J. Abrams director watch.

5. Hythlodeus - March 14, 2011

Nice! News! Finally!

6. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - March 14, 2011

The countdown to the countdown has nearly begun.

7. Vultan - March 14, 2011

Just for fun—can anyone name a Trek episode that doesn’t take place in space at all, meaning no shots of ships, star fields and the like?

Hmmm… none immediately come to mind…

8. Hythlodeus - March 14, 2011

@7 no shots of the Enterprise? Are you out of your Vultan mind?

9. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 14, 2011

Vultan. All of the Eps of all of the Series had Parts of it in Space and on a Ship. Good one though.
Can’t wait for the next Trek Countdown to begin.

10. Data Crusher - March 14, 2011

Will JJ direct?

11. Phil - March 14, 2011

No….Rand, Mudd, Lester, Khan, Jones, Chapel, Decker, Evans, Mitchell, Korby, Adams, Noel, Finnegan, Metrons, Horta, Organians, Keeler, Tribbles, Tracey, and most of all, no space hippies, hipsters, metrosexuals, or whatevers. New direction, new characters, please!!

12. "Check the Circuit!" - March 14, 2011

Not a good sign when the director is photographed at a screening sleeping.

Frak it! I’ll be at the theater this weekend in line to see Paul.

13. JJ Savard - March 14, 2011

@7 I’d need to watch it again, but I think Rocks and Shoals isn’t set in space, just another planet. Since it starts once the ship has crashed. We get a shot of a ship sinking, but as far as I recall never one in space.

14. Phil - March 14, 2011

7. Vultan – March 14, 2011

I seem to reacll that just about every episone had at least some stock footage of Enterprise entering/breaking orbit, or at least in orbit. City on the Edge of Forever would probably come close, though.

15. Chrischie - March 14, 2011

hmmm Far beyond the Stars? or maybe an holodeck episode?

16. JJ Savard - March 14, 2011

Ooh! I know, The Ship, it starts on the planet if I recall correctly, and you never see a ship in space.

17. Mr. Atoz - March 14, 2011

#2
Genius !

18. Of Bajor - March 14, 2011

DS9 – Far Beyond the Stars….just a couple second clip of a starfield is all

19. gingerly - March 14, 2011

Somewhere, Bob Orci is reading this while gritting his teeth and shaking his fist, because I have a feeling that Nick Frost just revealed a major plot-point.

20. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - March 14, 2011

Taylor Lautner=Khan.

Ummm…I’m just saying…let’s get the teeny boppers into this.

21. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 14, 2011

And so there is more “talk” with absolutely nothing being said!

Oo de la li, oo de la li.

22. Hythlodeus - March 14, 2011

@20 wasn’t one of the biggest critizisms with the last movie that the teenie poppers are already in this?

23. Red Dead Ryan - March 14, 2011

20.
…..

“Taylor Lautner=Khan.”

So, you’d be willing to sit in a theatre surrounded by teenage girls shrieking “KKKHHHAAANNN!”?

24. subatoi - March 14, 2011

Re: Scotty’s discovery from the movie:
http://www.cracked.com/article_19037_7-movies-that-ignored-world-changing-discoveries.html

They have a point there…

25. Pierre - March 14, 2011

If Paramount is scheduling the shoot, then the script is finished…?

26. section9 - March 14, 2011

I PREDICT!!!!

A rewritten version of “Balance of Terror”.

27. Hythlodeus - March 14, 2011

@26

Romulans AGAIN???
Highly unlikely.

28. Phil - March 14, 2011

@ 26.
An expanded version of a one hour TV episode would be a disaster, no matter how good the source material is. The best thing that could happen would be a solid stand alone story that recycles nothing, in real time, meaning something 3-4 years past the events of ST2009.

29. John from Cincinnati - March 14, 2011

I just hope Scotty and McCoy have significant more screen time in the sequel.

30. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 14, 2011

I love the photo of them at the Texas screening of Paul.

They are funny chaps

: )P

31. Christopher Roberts - March 14, 2011

I think DS9 “The Ship” has that bit at the end, with the Defiant towing the Jem’Hadar vessel.

“Rocks and Shoals” looks promising though for even less time spent on a space shot. There must be an establishing one for DS9, the times we go back for Kira’s B-story (the hanging Vedek?).

If we’re excuse a single shot here and there, maybe ENT “Carpenter Street” (Archer & T’Pol 21st Century Detroit). ENT “Home” (set on Earth and Vulcan). TNG “Family” maybe. Perhaps VOY “11.59″ although it’s been a while since I saw it.

32. Christopher Roberts - March 14, 2011

Oh… ENT “Carbon Creek”. Probably low on space shots.

33. Dee - lvs moon' surface - March 14, 2011

#20

AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Let me say that I ‘m not screaming in excitement … does not play with that ! … but I ‘m quiet … the guys wouldn’t do this to us … I HOPE !!! LOL and +LOL !

hmmmm … there are so many provocations on the internet lately … :-) :-)

34. Christopher Roberts - March 14, 2011

27. While I agree Romulans are unlikely, they might get away with it on the basis Nero was a departure from the highly intelligent chess-masters sneaking around Federation space in cloaked ships, we’d come to expect. Nero was an anachronistic blunt instrument used to shatter canon to pieces.

35. Harry Ballz - March 14, 2011

Apparently the episode of TNG’s “Family” is the only one where there ISN’T a shot of the bridge.

36. Harry Ballz - March 14, 2011

More Scotty, McCoy AND Pike in the next movie!

That still leaves plenty of time for the Kirk/Spock lovefest!

37. Christopher Roberts - March 14, 2011

^ Or maybe it’s fairer to describe Red Matter and the Narada as that.

38. Dee - lvs moon' surface - March 14, 2011

Hi Simon Pegg ! … a lot of excitements ? … OK ! … :-) :-)

39. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 14, 2011

@24 subatoi

good point well made.

I like the other entries too. He’s a funny writer too.

40. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 14, 2011

Oh Ballzy!

You and your bloody lovefests.

I’d rather see Kirk and Spock in lovefest than that awful concoction of Spock/Uhuruuuuuuuueergh.

That may possibly have sounded quite wrong……

: )P

41. Anthony Pascale - March 14, 2011

RE: script finished
we are still a few weeks away from the supposed target date (via Orci tweet from last month), but not sure that was a hard target

RE: Transporter makes ships obsolete
I have talked to Orci about this. He points out that having Scotty transported into water the pipe scene addressed the issue by showing that transwarp beaming is too risky, giving you only a 50/50 chance of showing up somewhere survivable in that case. So it appears that the derided silly scene actually had a purpose.

However Orci didnt have an answer to my point that if, as Scotty says, transporting a Grapefruit across a star system is easy, then why cant he beam a sandwich off Vulcan, which *was* apparently within visual range

42. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 14, 2011

I would say there was less than a 50/50 chance Anthony.

well, that is according to my own transwarp calculations…….: )P

43. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 14, 2011

Perhaps Scotty doesn’t like Vulcan sandwiches?

They are probably full of sand anyway.

Maybe that is why they are “sand….wiches”……

….anyway, back to the transwarp calculations……: )P

44. Anthony Pascale - March 14, 2011

the point was that Kirk was safe but Scotty ended up in the water – hence 50/50. Only reason Scotty survived is because he had James T. Kirk with him…otherwise he would have been haggis

45. Christopher Roberts - March 14, 2011

43. Scotty probably doesn’t care for the vegetarian option.

46. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 14, 2011

Scotty owes JTK biiiiiiig time!

“Miracle worker” indeed!

: )P

47. Pierre - March 14, 2011

Thanks Anthony on the confirmation (or not) of the finished script. :)

As for transwarp beaming, maybe in the second movie they will inadvertently find the beagle…somewhere funny…

48. Christopher Roberts - March 14, 2011

Plomeek sarnies or whatever.

49. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 14, 2011

@45

That is true.

Leaf sandwiches can get dull pretty darn quick.

Always best that you leaf that option alone……

I’m sure he’d have got it working if there was a bottle of 15 year old Islay single malt on Vulcan…….: )P

50. Rusty0918 - March 14, 2011

#11, Yeah I agree.

Rand and Chapel (as they were in TOS) wouldn’t be appropriate for nowadays. I still say female chief of security (in trousers) would be a fresher area to go.

JJ said that this sequel would not be a remake, although then again, it depends on what you call a remake.

Like I say, the real thing that irks me is that the movie could be on the level of “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen” and yet get praised like it’s the next “Dark Knight.” Granted they didn’t do everything I feared they’d do in the first one, it just makes me wonder.

51. The Picard Maneuver - March 14, 2011

I am just really curious as to who the classic character will be. Who are they going to incorporate and how will they be updated, adapted to fit with the times.

I have a strong feeling JJ ultimately will direct. There is no need to have a different director for each movie. Im not opposed to it, I just really like JJ’s style with most projects he does and want him back to direct for 2012.

I still want Klingons in the next movie. Hey, if you love Klingons, you love Klingons.

52. Phil - March 14, 2011

50. Rusty0918 – March 14, 2011

With apologies to Mr. Orci, T:ROTF had just too many cringe inducing moments. Hopefully this affliction wont effect the second effort for ST2012, otherwise we might be treated to:
– a shuttle pilot commenting that he’s flying under the Enterprise’s gonads..
– Chekov and Sulu channeling their inner DJ on the bridge.
– Scotty dry humping the warp drive
– Pike strolling down the corridor in his thong

Dark Knight was a good edgy story, that didn’t require you to watch Batman Returns to know what was going on. A good example to follow in my humble opinion…

53. Red Dead Ryan - March 14, 2011

35.
…..

Yes, I believe that you are correct. Can’t think of any DS9/VOY/ENT episodes that featured any “bridgeless” scenes. Every episode of TOS featured at least one shot on the bridge.

54. Red Dead Ryan - March 14, 2011

53

“Can’t think of any DS9/VOY/ENT episodes that featured any “bridgeless” scenes.”

OOOPS. That should be “Can’t think of any DS9/VOY/ENT episodes that had no shots on the bridge.”

55. The Vulcanista }:-) - March 14, 2011

I was lucky enough to get passes to a screening of “Paul” about a week and a half ago. It’s at least as good as “Shaun of the Dead,” definitely better than “Hot Fuzz”! I highly recommend this movie!

Peace. Live long and prosper.

56. Harry Ballz - March 14, 2011

Better than “Hot Fuzz”?? I am SO there!

57. The Vulcanista }:-) - March 14, 2011

MUCH better, Harry! I believe I had me a little geekgasm during the screening. Or is that a nerdgasm?

Peace. Live long and prosper.

58. NuKirk - March 14, 2011

Wait.. Nick Frost being in the interview….ummm… was it just because he happened to be with Pegg at the time, or could Pegg’s buddy Nick be planned to be in the next film perhaps?

#41—Anthony, to answer why Scotty couldn’t beam a sandwich off of Vulcan: because elder Spock gave him the transwarp beaming formula. BIG leap from theory to application, and I’m surprised you didn’t pick up on that. Probably why Bob Orci didn’t answer your question. Alternatively though I wanna know why he couldn’t just send a message to Vulcan to dispatch a special ship with more supplies :S

59. Harry Ballz - March 14, 2011

57.

Vulcanista, the fact that you had any type of “gasm” is good enough for me!

p.s. we miss you in Live Chat!

60. Anthony Pascale - March 14, 2011

RE: Sandwich
OK lets get into this. When Spock Prime shows up at Scotty’s lab on Delta Vega, Scotty immediately starts demanding “real food”. He then goes on to say that “transporting something like a grapefruit” from “one planet to an adjacent planet in the same system” is “easy”. So he didn’t need any help from Spock Prime to transwarp beam a sandwich, only to do it with a life form. He was clearly within visual range of Vulcan, so why hadn’t he beamed up some food? Was there nothing on the whole planet Vulcan worth eating?

61. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - March 14, 2011

Thanks Anthony for the explanation. The transwarp scene was MY biggest peeve, seeing as it would naturally render Starfleet obsolete.

62. Anthony Pascale - March 14, 2011

no prob

if anyone wants I can riff on how Cadet to Captain makes sense, and how the Kirk’s cockiness Kobayashi Maru fits his character in any universe.

but dont make me explain Budgineering

63. keachick - March 14, 2011

Transwarp beaming would not render starships obsolete at all. It was quite obvious that the water pipe scene was to show how dangerous and unreliable transwarp beaming could be. Both Kirk and Scotty were very lucky, but then again, Kirk was there. Kirk has managed to amass quite a lot of good karma – believe me or not. Transwarp beaming was rarely used in TNG etc because of the many risks.

“Budgineering”? You mean, engineering, brewery with budgies? It is getting even better. I love it – truly!

“I still say female chief of security (in trousers) would be a fresher area to go.”

Fresh? Anything but. Remember security officer Tasha Yar in those awful trousers? Not a good look. Please, no female security officers in trousers. Yuk!

“a shuttle pilot commenting that he’s flying under the Enterprise’s gonads..
– Chekov and Sulu channeling their inner DJ on the bridge.
– Scotty dry humping the warp drive
– Pike strolling down the corridor in his thong”

Now, this I would like to see (and hear). They do look like gonads…:) Please explain how Scotty dry humps a warp drive. Just dying to know. By thong, do you mean rubber open toed footwear that we call jandals? The most practical and comfortable footwear there is and also good at preventing foot odours etc. I wear them all the time. The only time you would need to wear shoes or boots is when you know you are going into an area (or planet) where the ground is rugged, stony and/or where there are poisonous insects and plants, etc.

64. Buzz Cagney - March 15, 2011

#7 Vultan, you are the DS9 expert but I seem to remember the rather excellent episode ‘The Visitor’ had very little in the way of ‘space’ and ‘ships’ in it. :-?

65. MATT - March 15, 2011

Anthony,

Scotty doesn’t beam food of Vulcan because Vulcan food sucks. After all, with their metabolism, they could eat a plate full of termites and not even notice. Scotty would make himself sick. Best to hold out for a sandwhich.

66. Azrael - March 15, 2011

If the writers of the next Trek are still monitoring these message boards, as they were a few days ago, let me just say.

PLEASE give Nichelle Nichols the scene as Uhura’s grandmother that both she and JJ Abrams said they wanted to do in ST2009.

She deserves it, far more than Shatner needs his ego stoked, and I think it would go over well. Anyone else agree?

Aside from that, just make it a great movie, and keep doing all of the little nods to the older franchise (by which I mean have someone do the Picard Maneuver… that’s straightening your shirt when you stand up btw)

67. MATT - March 15, 2011

Azrael –

I think that would be a stunt. The idea of having Kirk-Prime read a holograpic birthday message to Spock Prime as we watched the new crew take their places was, in my view, a moving and character driven way to include Shatner. Shoe horning in old cast mambers for the sake of it will be dsitracting and compromise the integrity of the show. It would be like the Starsky and Hutch movie as opposed to Richard Hatch in new BSG (which at least had time to grow a proper character)

68. Christopher Roberts - March 15, 2011

54. I’m being a smart alec here but…

I’m fairly sure that ENT “Carbon Creek” only used the Captain’s mess and T’Pol’s quarters right at the end. The rest in set in 1950′s Pennsylvania is about the first unrecorded meeting, between humans and Vulcans.

69. Christopher Roberts - March 15, 2011

Stupid typos! But I’m sure there was no bridge in that one.

68. “The rest set in 1950’s Pennsylvania, is about the first unrecorded meeting between humans and Vulcans.”

70. Chris Doohan - March 15, 2011

All this Sandwich talk is making me hungry. Please beam me one now, Scotty

71. Vultan - March 15, 2011

#64

Buzz, I’m far from being an expert on DS9 (it’s been some time since I’ve actually seen the show, as no network is showing it right now on my dial), but yes, I do vaguely remember “The Visitor” episode. “Far Beyond the Stars” was another excellent one that had little to do with space. It was also an interesting way to see the actors without their alien makeup.

By the way, I watched the moon buggy episode of Top Gear last night. Very cool to watch… and a little sad, considering the buggy isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. :(

72. Basement Blogger - March 15, 2011

@ 62

Anthony, on the cadet to captain issue, Kirk tells Pike that he will complete the academy training in the three years. After they leave for Starfleet, we get a scene of the Narada where it says it’s three years later. Then we move on to Kirk’s Kobayashi Maru test. So, I’m guesing that Kirk has completed all his course work and is ready to graduate. That’s when Vulcan comes under attack. No time for graduation cermonies. All hands on deck. I’m also guessing that when you graduate from Star Fleet, your rank is Lieutenant. So when Kirk saves earth, his reward is promotion to captain.

Of course, it all could just be a contrivance to appeal to teenagers. Look, kids, Kirk the young guy in his twenties is captain of the Enterprise. :-)

73. Rusty0918 - March 15, 2011

#35, #52, #53

TOS’s “All Our Yesterdays” does not feature ANY shipboard scenes at all!

TNG: Although seen in flashbacks, “Shades of Grey” didn’t have any new bridge scenes. Neither did “Frame of Mind” or “Dark Page.”

74. Vultan - March 15, 2011

If we’re to go by the US Naval Academy, cadets graduate with the rank of ensign in the Navy, second lieutenant for the Marine Corps. I believe that in the old Royal Navy the commanding officer of a ship could still hold the rank of lieutenant (ex. Commanding Lieutenant Bligh, HMS Bounty). So, who knows?

The simple fact is… Kirk is captain kid whether we like it or not.
Move along.

75. Rusty0918 - March 15, 2011

#63…
“Fresh? Anything but. Remember security officer Tasha Yar in those awful trousers? Not a good look. Please, no female security officers in trousers. Yuk!”

Well, she wouldn’t have to be totally Natasha Yar essentially. But let me tell you something. The mini-skirts as uniforms are highly inappropriate. If you’re so into showing off your skin, do it off duty for crying out loud!

Bud-engineering was poor execution of an idea that wasn’t necessarily a bad one. The basic premise of it being more “functional” is good, but it was executed so poorly. In fact, I know someone who has been on naval vessels who can’t stand ‘em either.

76. Anthony Thompson - March 15, 2011

60.

We all know that (despite his boasting) Scotty was unable to find a spot in the Narada w/o a soul in sight, so what makes you think he could locate a sandwich on Vulcan? You’ve got to be able to successfully scan for an object before you can beam it, right?

77. Vultan - March 15, 2011

#63

What was so wrong with Yar’s trousers? At least I could take her seriously as a character, unlike some of Troi’s odd apparel choices. Thank goodness Jellico finally told her to put on a proper uniform. Now, if only she could drive a starship…

;)

78. Buzz Cagney - March 15, 2011

Vults, it is sad the new Buggy will never get used. Its an impressive bit of kit.

That DS9 episode you mention, I think I remember that. Was Sisko a newspaper guy or something in the 1940′s or 50′s? I’ll look it up anyhoo, but I think you could well have me beat with that shout over The Visitor.

And I love it … Captain Kid! lol

79. Vultan - March 15, 2011

#78

Yeah, Sisko was a writer at a pulp magazine in the… 50′s, I believe. He came up with this story of a black commander of a space station in deep space (sound familiar?), and the publisher insisted he change the race of the commander. It’s a pretty powerful episode, with some solid acting by Avery Brooks. Colm Meaney is also good as a fellow pulp writer who is constantly losing his train of thought—the opposite of O’Brien!

Oh, and I just hope Kirk doesn’t really become Captain Kidd. Didn’t Roddenberry have something against space pirates? ;D

80. Basement Blogger - March 15, 2011

@ 7

Vultan’s Challenge of no ships in an episode

Hey, there are scenes in the Visitor aboard the Defiant. Remember the accident that sends Captain Sisko into another dimension occurs in the engine room or the microbrewery. I’ll take a Sam Adams please.

81. Basement Blogger - March 15, 2011

On women wearing trousers, there’s nothing wrong with that. If I recall, the pilot “The Cage”, number one (Majel Barrett) wore pants. Ah, there’s that Roddenberry vision of the future thing. Women as equals. Of course, he also liked sexiness. And the mini-skirrt was happening in the sixites. I believe you can have sexiness and equality. They are not mutally exclusive.

I agree Vultan that Troi should have been wearing a Starfleet uniform more often. It took over five years to get her in the nice blue uniform. You don’t think they were trying to emphasize her cleavage? Nah. They couldn’t put Seven in Starfleet uniform. Her Borg implants would get in the way. :-)

82. Anthony Pascale - March 15, 2011

to those that doubt that Scotty could find anything on Vulcan, so what do all the folks at the Federation embassy eat? Are you saying that Subway doesnt have a single franchise on Vulcan by the 23rd century?

83. keachick - March 15, 2011

#75 – “The mini-skirts as uniforms are highly inappropriate. If you’re so into showing off your skin, do it off duty for crying out loud!”

Do what – off duty? Since when did we EVER see the skin of either the Nichelle/Uhura or the Zoe/Uhura, except that of their faces and hands? They were both fully covered! Both women were wearing very black tights, high leg black boots and a red skirt that covered her arms and had a high neck line.

There was also nothing wrong with what Deanna Troi wore and I was actually pissed off with the scene where that rude Captain Jellico or whoever he was, told her to put on a proper uniform. Arrogant, rude SOB. He was only in temporary command. Captain Picard had no problem with her standard of dress, because it was NOT a problem. It was neat, tidy and feminine and it did not prevent her from doing her assigned work. If she had to go to a possibly dangerous place, she changed her clothes to suit the new environment, whatever that might be. That could apply to any other crew member.

Besides, what is this ” showing off your skin” and “for crying out loud!” stuff? Do you have a problem with the sight of healthy, human skin?

I was joking about the engineering section etc. Anthony used the term “budgineering” and it tickled my fancy. Do you also have a problem with budgies, Saurian brandy and Scotch whisky? Grief.

Anyway, why all this aggro over the design of an engineering section containing a warp core for a warp drive capable of make a vessel go at faster than light speeds that does not even exist or, at this point in our understanding, ever likely to exist? Duh… Frankly, the writers can do what they like!

84. Basement Blogger - March 15, 2011

On Captain Kid, er Captain Kirk, in the prime universe, he was not a captain right away. He served aboard the U.S.S. Farragut before he beame captain. (‘Obsession”) In Star Trek: Generations, the ship that beams Picard and Riker is the Farragut. And in the 2009 movie, Uhura complains about being assigned to the Farragut after telling Spock about demonstrating exceptional “aural” sensitivity. Two nods to Kirk prime’s old ship.

And about Chekov being a teenager, I think that’s correct. In Generations, Chekov bemoans the fact that Sulu’s daughter who’s fresh out of the academy is so young. Chekov says to Kirk, “Were we ever that young?” Kirk warmly says, “You were younger.”

It’s okay to appeal to young people, just don’t make artistic decisions in making a film. “Young minds. Fresh ideas. Be Tolerant.” (Kirk in The Search for Spock) Because catering to a demographic can lead to bad art. See James Franco and Anne Hathaway hosting the Academy Awards. Or closer to home, Wesley Crusher. Teenage kid piloting the Enterprise! Next they’ll have nine year olds piloting star fighters….

85. keachick - March 15, 2011

Edit: Correction – Zoe/Uhura’s uniform had short sleeves, and the necklines showed no cleavage. Is there a problem with seeing the skin of a (woman’s) arms?

86. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 15, 2011

All the females should wear thongs and jandals only.

Be careful though when in Budgeneering. You could slip over…

87. keachick - March 15, 2011

“Next they’ll have nine year olds piloting star fighters….”

Or eleven year olds driving their sick mum to the hospital in her car!

88. Daoud - March 15, 2011

Transwarp beaming only worked during a period from 2233 to 2258. It was due to the peculiar warping of space caused by the Narada. As long as the Narada was extant, there was an “open manifold” rippling throughout the space-time fabric that Scott was able to manipulate.
.
Scott created the equations, but in the prime universe it never quite worked without an open manifold. Spock Prime, certainly knew about Scott’s work… and realized that it would work with the Narada being ‘out of time and space’.
.
That’s my best retcon. Another would be that Keenser is a Q. He made it work.

89. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - March 15, 2011

Mr. Doohan. Good to see you on this site. Loved your father’s work on Star Trek.

90. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - March 15, 2011

“Next they’ll have nine year olds piloting star fighters….”

Ender’s game?

(I do hope Orci stays away from that story. Not worth his time.)

91. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - March 15, 2011

on mini-skirts: yeah, if they’re on an away team, sure, pants, okay. but on the ship… like those skirts.

sorry, still dig chicks. ;)

92. Basement Blogger - March 15, 2011

@ 90

No, it’s a reference to Star Wars: Phantom Menace. Remember the annoying Jake Lloyd as Anakin? “This is pod racing…” Ugh.

93. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - March 15, 2011

BB- right. wonder why I missed that one?

…though it does apply to the afore mentioned novel that looks to be turned into a major motion picture.

94. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - March 15, 2011

with similar results, I fear.

95. Phil - March 15, 2011

72. Basement Blogger – March 15, 2011

Assuming that Starfleet is modeled after the Navy in rank, Kirk would be graduating as an Ensign. Even if he graduates as Lt Junior Grade, he jumped Lt., Lt. Cmdr, and Cmdr on a battlefield promotion to Captain. Considering that battlefield promotions/commissions are limited to Enlisted personel, there is no prescedent for Kirks promotion, which means Kirk is super special, or Starfleet is really hard up for senior officers, because Kirk is now one promotion away from Rear Admiral.

But then, this really isn’t real, so why worry about it.

96. Rusty0918 - March 15, 2011

#83 (keachick)
Yeah, I know some women actually like the look. Heck, Grace Lee Whitney delighted in it. But that doesn’t mean every single woman delights in it. You are aware that the female security chief in trousers idea was a fair compromise, and in that idea, Uhura could still show off her legs and go-go boots.

#86
You make me sick!

#91
Again, my suggestion for the sequel did NOT say get rid of the mini-skirts. Just put another major female crewmember (such as as security chief) in trousers. We can have both the feminine (Uhura) and the tougher (security chick).

#95
People like me have scratched their heads about this rapid promotion, and how it doesn’t really work. The question is, does Kirk have the necessary discipline to command the Enterprise? He can’t be the irresponsible “bad boy” that he was often portrayed in the previous movie.

The question remains though with Orci and Kurtzman…the question is if we get something as bad as a “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen,” but despite what it really is, it gets glowing reviews no matter how bad it is. I’m not saying Trek 2009 is bad, it was a decent movie, but not “Best Picture” material, in my opinion.

97. keachick - March 15, 2011

“The question remains though with Orci and Kurtzman…the question is if we get something as bad as a “Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen,” but despite what it really is, it gets glowing reviews no matter how bad it is.”

What question and what does it matter? Why should it worry you if the next Star Trek does not get the reviews you think it should get? – “though with Orci and Kurtzman” – why are they being singled out in this way? Anyway, from what I can tell, the second Transformers movie was not given glowing reviews by every critic who saw it.

Was Kirk really that an “irresponsible” “bad boy” in the last movie? When and where?

98. keachick - March 15, 2011

“All the females should wear thongs and jandals only.”

Do you mean that all females should go naked except for wearing some open-toed rubber footwear without an ankle support backstrap (jandals or thongs)?

Of course, the real question is – why does the crew of the Enterprise need a uniform at all? What’s wrong with a person wearing his/her own neat and tidy apparel with a pin designating name, rank and occupation? Perhaps, there should be a tunic and pants uniform for all away teams, or there again away teams just be told to dress according to the conditions, as far as they can tell, which could be quite a lot in many instances.

There is only one reasonably good reason why many may prefer uniforms, but I’m certainly not telling anyone here. I need to read some good reasons why uniforms are deemed SO necessary on a starship, where most of the crew would spend a large part of their time (if not all, in some cases), on the starship. Habit or because the crew are part of a “peacekeeping and humanitarian armada” (LOL) are not good reasons.

99. Phil - March 15, 2011

96. Rusty0918 – March 15, 2011
In the Navy you would need 21 to 23 years of service to be considered for promotion, and thats assuming you worked your way up the chain of command quickly. This also presumes that there were vacancies that needed to be filled as one became elidigible for promotion. Because Pike was promoted in the movie to Admiral, that created a vacency for Captain on Enterprise. If Starfleet law (assuming there is such a thing) and Navy protocol were to be followed, then candidates would be assesed and a Captain selected from a qualified pool of officers holding the rand of Commander. Either that, or Pike suggested Kirk for the job and Starfleet just tossed him the keys and said “thanks”.

The next movie just needs to fast forward a few years and show us a more mature Kirk. If they present us with a story about Kirk growing into the role of Captain all it’s going to do is invite comparisons of Revenge of the Sith, and that would be bad.

100. Phil - March 15, 2011

98. keachick – March 15, 2011

Probably for the same reasons that modern Navies do – identification to a service, utility, and as identification of rank. Uniformity of clothing also reinforces dicipline and camaradrie.

101. Vultan - March 15, 2011

#98

The reasons they wear uniforms is quite simple: Starfleet is based on naval tradition, particularly in terms of rank and terminology. The Enterprise was named after a decorated WW2 aircraft carrier. Both Gene Roddenberry and Gene Coon served in the US military.

See a theme forming here?

102. Rusty0918 - March 15, 2011

#100 and #101…Yes…reinforces discipline. And cocktail dresses are inappropriate as uniforms. I know many fans seem to get horny over them, and they are iconic to some extent. I’m glad that they didn’t overly go blatant on it in the last movie. I’m suggesting that female chief of security would be a good fit and introduce even more change. Heck why not?

#97…true. Transformers 2 was panned by critics. Maybe I am getting a bit overreactive here.

103. keachick - March 15, 2011

I guess Gene Roddenberry and Gene Coon just could not think past a military model or blueprint. So Starfleet is really a sort of rehash of what there is today – an armada. Yikes. Talk about thinking outside the square – NOT.

People will get horny over almost anything. Are you telling me that men in the Middle East where women are covered from head to foot don’t get horny? Please – just the way her scarf falls next to her face could do it for some, but that is her fault of course -(sarcasm here). Actually, it used to be considered very inappropriate for women to wear anything above her ankles (early 1900s) – the sight of a female ankle apparently got a lot of guys horny, so it was the women who had to cover up their ankles. See where I am going with this?

Certainly, uniforms are part of many jobs – nurses wear uniforms, hotel room maids, police, fire and ambulance. However, many jobs do not require wearing of uniforms – teachers, office workers, many shop workers etc. Are they suddenly less disciplined? Is there less camaraderie between them? Nah – your answers don’t mean much at all. Remember, I said that habit (it is a naval tradition…) would not count as good reasons.

The reason I have was not mentioned, not that I am surprised. Think – it is a very obvious one (at least, to me, it is)…

104. Vultan - March 16, 2011

#103

Please, do tell. Let us bask in your wisdom.

105. keachick - March 16, 2011

I wouldn’t call it any sort of wisdom. People like to wear uniforms because they are easy. Doing much the same job every day is not inspiring enough for most people to be bothered or want to think, “What do I wear today?” It is all sorted and less laundry to do. They introduced uniforms into all state primary schools (elementary in the US). I did not like it much. However, after buying two of everything, it was just so much easier to get the kids dressed and off. Whether it had any effect on their self-discipline, I doubt. It was a lazy way to be five days a week. Uniforms at high school are a lot more expensive and parents are forced to buy school branded regulation shirts, pants, jerseys etc. The bill can easily reach three digits. The regulation pants never fitted my sons properly and could only be drycleaned. I could go and get much the same black pants for half or third the price. They did the same job. That is what the boys wear.

Fortunately, their school principal has one or two smarts – a Kirk/Picard type, I guess. Not just Captain Jellico type who has probably never had a single original thought of his own his entire life…
The fact that no one had any objections to the whole notion of adults in the 23rd century aboard an explorer starship being told what to wear and face penalties if they don’t, is slightly bothersome.

106. Vultan - March 16, 2011

Ah. Laundry. I see.

Well, my cousin the Marine would probably tell you there’s nothing “easy” about the uniform, especially when one little thread is out of place and he gets extra kitchen duty for it—which is going back to the whole discipline thing. It’s not fun, but it is necessary.

107. Phil - March 16, 2011

103. keachick – March 15, 2011

I think you are being a bit of a revisionist with the backstory of ST. Starfleet was always portrayed as a quasi-military organization, with responsibilities for self defense and exploration, and modeled after Naval tradition. As such, it’s not unreasonable to expect That such an organization would have the necessary command and control structure, and the tools and uniforms that show committment to the organization. I suppose the Enterprise could have been a civilian vessel, , but then it would have been an entirely different show – no uniforms, crew can come and go as they please, no weapons, an outer space version of Love Boat.

108. Harry Ballz - March 16, 2011

Casual would be boring. A military tone gives it an edge. Nice.

And remember, if you’re not living life on the edge, you’re taking up too much room!

109. keachick - March 16, 2011

Perhaps I am being a bit revisionist (is that such a bad thing?) and I may also be playing “devil’s advocate” as well. Actually, I do not have much of a problem with the TOS style uniforms and I like the fact that women like Lt Uhura have a choice. That seemed to not be the case in TNG etc, except for Deanne Troi and we saw how Captain Jellico treated her. Not good.

I do not see how not having to wear a regulation uniform turns Star Trek into the Love Boat. The shows have completely different premises. Actually the senior crew all wore uniforms on the Love Boat and the rest of the crew (whether in uniform or not) were committed to the vessel, its captain and the passengers they are serving.
Nor do I see how having Kirk befriend an alien woman from a beautiful planet and the two of them sharing mutual (sexual) affection turns Star Trek in some sort of 90210, as some people have alluded to. Like the Spock/Uhura relationship, it would be a sub-plot, unless the writers managed to write an exciting, profound and inspiring Trek story where the Kirk/Jasmia(?) relationship is central to the plot. Somehow, I do not see that occurring.

(Bob – you could always surprise me…:))

The other fact is that many people go to work wearing their own clothes. They are required to be there by a certain time and perform certain duties within a particular time period. If they do not do this, then they face possible loss of pay or even unemployment. They cannot just come and go as they please and nor could the crew have been able to do that on the Love Boat. Where on earth did you get this idea? There are actually jobs where no one is required to wear any uniform, yet require of the person a lot of patience, effort, energy, discipline and skill. Taking good care of small children would be one of those jobs.

Actually, what crews of a future Star Trek type future are expected to wear, how they have to look, are things that perhaps should be given more thought. The military today also have regulation hair lengths, men have to be clean shaven etc. In a future UPF, where it is canon that many different races and species will be part of this union and some could also be members of Starfleet and even make up crews of ships, then surely the notions about dress and uniform would/could not be necessarily what it is today. Pins, (removable) ID badges etc may well be the only “uniform” some species can wear or would find acceptable to wear…

110. Phil - March 16, 2011

109. keachick – March 16, 2011

The flaw in your arguement is that if I have two ships in spacedock, the SS Enterprise, a privately owned freighter, and the USS Enterprise, the flagship of Starfleet, charged with exploration and defending peace and freedom, that the crews are somewhat interchangable and indistinguishable from each other.
The freighter has responsibilites that do not extend beyond it’s primary funtion, namely hauling crap from point A to point B. So, crew is less skilled and if there is no work. The captain turns out the lights and the ship stays at dock.
The Starship, however, has function beyond actually “boldly going”. It’s a part of a larger body, and as such it’s responsibility extends beyond the actual function and mission of the ship to that of being a representative of the government it defends. This requires a much higher skilled crew that is interchangable with any other ship or function in the fleet. If Enterprise is in drydock, it’s crew will function just as well on any other ship in the fleet. This is accomplished through training and continuity, which among other things, means UNIFORMS. It’s that uniform that lends credibility to the individual, that says they represent something bigger then them selves, that says they can and will make sacrifice, when necessary, that the captain of that freighter won’t do because he dosent have to.

A real world example – Haiti has been a failed government for years. When the first Air Force cargo plane touched down after that earthquake, I can gaurentee you that the uniform on the first airman off that plane instantly gave that airman more credibility the the presdient of Haiti. I’d see no reason to assume that in the Star Trek universe that if my little space ship was being chased across the cosmos by Orion pirates, that I’d be praying for a Starfleet uniform to be showing up on my viewscreen.

111. keachick - March 16, 2011

The problem with this thinking is that *you* (I mean, right back to Gene R himself and others) obviously believe that outer space, along with any alien life, will merely be an extension of what is already here, in terms of culture and physiology etc, on earth.

You also appear to conclude that because people may not wear uniforms that they would not be given or have the necessary training and skills necessary to function as a committed crew on board a ship like the Enterprise.

Actually I am not opposed to uniforms per se. It is just that the same old excuses and reasons keep being given, some of them very knee jerk, some of which do not hold much water with me and may not be even relevant and appropriate in the 23rd century Star Trek future, what with hortas and others being as capable as any human being at manning a station on a Federation starship, even the Enterprise.

Will a humanoid Jasmia from planet Menosia not be able to drape her very long multi-coloured hair around her thighs, waist and breasts, as her mother and ancestors have done for a millenia? Will Starfleet bar her from serving aboard a vessel for no other reason other than she refuses, or simply cannot (physiology) wear a regulation Starfleet uniform? Does Starfleet even have the right to insist? Wouldn’t this be viewed as discrimination of the worst kind? However, she can flatten some of her hair next to her skin allowing a badge and/or brooch with the Starfleet insignia pinned to her hair, temporarily, at least until the end of her shift.

For the last few hundred years, the naval forces and ships went around exploring, plundering and forcing different races to dress according to the codes and customs of their European conquerors. Of course, much of this was seen as part of their Christian duty etc. Sometimes the health consequences to these people having to dress a certain way, a kind of uniform, were disastrous. I think some of these attitudes of our ancestors have become so entrenched that it is difficult for some to imagine that exploration and defence could be achieved any other way…

112. Phil - March 16, 2011

@111.

Trek, from it’s inception told a story of humanity overcoming most (yeah, not all) of it’s base-er instincts to achieve a substantial foothold in space. Yes, I would expect that when man leaves the planet for good that they will carry the traditions of our collective history with them. Hopefully, leaving behind the bad and moving forward with the good.

Yes, I would expect the need arises in the future for a military/self-defense/exploratory force, with centralized command to continue to look and function in a similar function to a modern military. It’s a system that works, has achieved great results, and produced several great leaders in the last 100 years. You seem to confuse the uniform with committment. Most people who enter into modern military service wash out. It’s not just about being “given” the chance, these skills need to be earned. Seriously, it’s just silly to assume that everyone could be Captain of the enterprise, or President if they were just given the chance. If it was that easy, everyone could do it. Take a look at a few of my previous comments about obtaining rank in the service. It takes years of dedication, education, testing, and committment. Most fail at it, which is why the don’t wear the uniform.

I saw this coming a mile away. If all a uniform does is represent the evils of the past then no amount of atonement will cover those sins. The wonderful thing about a work of fiction is that you can create an exception to every rule. Would Starfleet bar a head floating in a jar from serving? I don’t know. Would they create segregated crews if a member planet has intelligent life at 1/6 gravity? 10x normal gravity? Or insist that everyone else adapt, or develop a technology to overcome issues solely related to the accident of birth? Hortas don’t have fingers, so yeah, serving on a ship crewed with bipeds is going to be a bit difficult. When you look at where we are now as opposed to a couple of centuries ago, we have come a long way, and we all enjoy the fruits of our ancestors labors. Hopefully we have learned from our mistakes, too.

113. Harry Ballz - March 16, 2011

Yeah, but when it comes to your personal yeoman, I’ll take the blonde with the big tits every time!

114. Vultan - March 16, 2011

There’s another basic reason people wear uniforms in Trek: familiarity for the audience.

With all the fantastic alien worlds and future tech we see on screen, it does serve as a kind of comfort zone—and a connection—to also see some things haven’t changed quite as radically as others. It’s the same reason Nick Meyer chose to put anachronistic things (by futuristic standards) like books, reading glasses, and cups of coffee in his Trek movies… or when George Lucas put familiar genre characters like gunslingers, pirates, bounty hunters, and samurai in a galaxy far, far away….

115. keachick - March 17, 2011

“It’s not just about being “given” the chance, these skills need to be earned. Seriously, it’s just silly to assume that everyone could be Captain of the enterprise, or President if they were just given the chance. If it was that easy, everyone could do it.”

Did I actually say this? I never intimated that I assumed that everyone could be captain of the Enterprise or that dedication, education, testing and experience were not necessary. It was more a case of how you related to someone who did not wear a uniform.

This is what I did say:

“You also appear to conclude that because people may not wear uniforms that they would not be given or have the necessary training and skills necessary to function as a committed crew on board a ship like the Enterprise.”

College students are not required to wear uniforms (so I believe), yet many are very dedicated to their studies and their future careers. Eventually, after a number of years of lectures, tutorials and study, they graduate with certificates of attainment, diplomas, BAs etc and not a uniform in sight. Even after graduating as say, a doctor/surgeon, they may not wear a uniform, only carry papers that represent all the hard work they have done over those college years. So a private in the Army who gets to wear a uniform is judged somehow more “worthy” or whatever than a qualified surgeon?

Actually, in all the shows I have watched dealing with the military and even in Star Trek, what I have seen is the stripping of insignias, badges, pins, stripes etc – all the things that I have mentioned already as being OK and necessary for Starfleet crew members to wear.

“I saw this coming a mile away. If all a uniform does is represent the evils of the past then no amount of atonement will cover those sins.”

Really? LOL If you actually read my posts, I did NOT say or intimate that “if all uniforms do is represent the evils of the past” because clearly they don’t, not at all. However, the abuse of the uniform should not be ignored either. Nor can we ignore the often unfair/illegitimate judgments made about people because of what they wear or don’t wear.

“If you’re so into showing off your skin, do it off duty for crying out loud!””

It was this comment that I found offensive, actually. It kinda threw me and caused me to wonder why all this hooplah about the need for uniforms at all. What was behind most people’s insistence on them and why did some seem to get upset, angry, even offensive, at a suggestion of a possible deviation from the norm (and that of Trek canon, up till now)?

Vultan is right – “There’s another basic reason people wear uniforms in Trek: familiarity for the audience.”
I like that too. However, Star Trek was/is also about going beyond, presenting new ideas, situations…

Where does, eg *Jasmia* stand in her quest to be a crewmember of the flagship, Enterprise, given her particular physiological and psychological makep? She is very bright and capable, is a humanoid bi-ped with fingers and toes and no, Jim Kirk has no idea who she is. She may deserve to wear the uniform, but what if she does not want to or can’t? Should she be forced to wear it or be denied her rightful place as a Starfleet officer?

“or develop a technology to overcome issues solely related to the accident of birth?” Whoa! *Jasmia* was no accident of birth and there is no technology needed to overcome any issues because she does not have any. She is a healthy, normal menosian woman who has managed to adapt to a human/earth environment reasonably well, and her body is able to clothe itself with hair, if and when necessary.

*Jasmia is a fictional female humanoid alien character who I have created. She is also known as *Ellie*.

116. Red Dead Ryan - March 17, 2011

Uniforms are necessary in high-risk jobs and environments. It helps identify officer’s positions and rank. Uniforms also are meant to maintain order and disipline. Uniforms are also worn at many restaurants. It’s to promote teamwork as part of a collective.

As for colleges and unversities, some actually do require uniforms. A lot of schools have no tolerance for scantily clad females. Plus, it is seen as a way to help cut down on bad behavior. Too many schools nowadays lack the disiplinary systems and rules that would protect women and girls from being raped/murdered in their dorms, or males from being robbed, physically assaulted, bullied, or beaten to death by a mob of bullies.

I would also add that perhaps we need uniforms in our normal lives as well, whenever we go out in public. Women would wear formal and classy clothing that would cover their bodies neck to toe. Men would wear the same. No displaying of tatoos, and limited jewelry.

I think if anything, society has become too liberal and lazy. Order must be restored. Especially for today’s younger people, who are between the ages of 10-35. These are the people who are committing the most crimes. This generation is the most narcissistic, selfish, violent and sex-obsessed group (specifically the males) in history.

Modesty, obedience, and respect for authority are badly needed these days. Uniforms represent the first step in that direction. Otherwise, society will continue it’s march towards hell.

117. Phil - March 17, 2011

116. Red Dead Ryan – March 17, 2011

Speaking of march to hell…

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com

118. Red Dead Ryan - March 17, 2011

117.
……..

Wow! That lady was ugly as HELL! I’d bet she gets a lot of people asking her to take off her mask and she has to tell them she can’t remove her “face”!

119. captain_neill - March 17, 2011

41

I get that point with the scene but it is a scene that I find painfully unfunny now.

The opening moment is fine but it’s played out too much.

I don’t think anyone likes the new Engine Room, so if they are listening to fan feedback then they might get a proper engineering next time. What you think?

I am still not a fan of the cadet to captain thing.

120. Phil - March 17, 2011

119. captain_neill – March 17, 2011

I like the engine room. Not a fan of the Cadet to Captain thing either, but it is what it is.

121. captain_neill - March 17, 2011

120

Lot of things in the new movie aren’t things I am happy with but it is the way Star Trek is now.

122. keachick - March 17, 2011

#116 You could go live in an Islamic republic where Sharia law rules. You know, places where the woman who is raped gets beheaded. Shall I go on?

What is wrong with tattoes? It is interesting that those people so in favour of uniform appear intolerant of cultural differences. Tattooing is as old as time itself in Polynesian and Maori culture. Many young Maori, especially females, get tattooes here in NZ and many are attractive and safely done. They proudly display their tattooes on their legs and arms. It is their way of being identified with a particular race and culture. In a sense, it is a form of Maori uniform. They are not gang members, just ordinary law abiding citizens of a multi-cultural society. Theirs happens to be the first, the indigenous one.

Among Hindu cultures, the wearing of jewellery is common place. They have their little girls’ ears pierced when they are toddlers and they learn to wear sleepers from an early age. Along with dress, jewellery is part of cultural identification. These girls are allowed to wear their sleepers while at schools here, but no other jewellery.

As a matter of fact, the NZ Bill of (Human) Rights actually says that it is illegal to enforce the wearing or non-wearing of clothing. Therefore, it is quite lawful for a person to be naked and for a woman to wear a burqua. Obviously, there are certain practicalities to be taken into account, which means most people dress according to societal and their own cultural expectations. However, if push comes to shove, a naked person walking along a beach cannot be arrested for indecent exposure, because they are not being indecent as such, since they are only being what the rest of us are if we chose to wear no clothes. We are all naked under our clothes!

Councils have by-laws which prohibit complete nakedness in a public place and in most cases, a compromise is reached between the naked person and council officials, without any arrests being made, because simply being naked breaks no law, especially natural law, and nor should it.

Women who chose to wear a burqua (where you see only the eyes) have problems when it comes to them being on a witness stand in a court of law. The face needs to be seen and identified. A compromise is usually reached between the woman and court officials without arrest or contempt of court charges being laid. She has also broken no law.

So, to clarify, you are saying that one kind of uniform is a must, and at the same time, not allowing others to express their own cultural identities through their own form of “uniform”. Nice one, NOT.

I could be offended, if I were to take you very seriously.

123. Phil - March 17, 2011

122. keachick – March 17, 2011

Not sure how you connected the dots on RDR’s comment to Sharia Law. There was no suggestion there about taking away a womans right to function freely in society, just a comment that a bit of disipline for the young is not harmful. If you disagree, that’s fine, but he said nothing that was offensive.

Okay, this thing with the uniforms has been beat hard. I’m not aware of any organization in the world that has involentary participation. Freedom of choice being what it is, if I choose to join the Navy, Police Department, the Girl Scouts, the Catholic Church, or any other organization where participation requires the use of a uniform, I would expect to either conform to those standards, or be asked to leave. I do not beleive that any of these organizations should have to compromise their performance standards because their rules may clash with any one individuals cultural norms.
CHOICE is the important distinction. Any individual should have the freedom to make that choice, while understanding what that choice entails. Lots of the organizations listed above will do what they can to accomodate reasonable requests, but not at the expense of the organization as a whole.

124. Vultan - March 17, 2011

#122

Lighten up, lady!

I’m pretty sure RDR wasn’t referring to the age-old cultural aspects of tattooing and piercing, but the so-called “low brow” culture which has come about in recent years. Somehow, I doubt a Maori person would have a tattoo of the Tazmanian Devil smoking a joint on their neck or a psychedelic butterfly at the small of their back (such as we see idiots wearing up here in the States and Canada).

Now, before you start protesting further, take a deep breath and relax. You do seem to take things “very seriously.”

125. keachick - March 17, 2011

“I would also add that perhaps we need uniforms in our normal lives as well, whenever we go out in public. Women would wear formal and classy clothing that would cover their bodies neck to toe. Men would wear the same. No displaying of tatoos, and limited jewelry.”

It was this statement that RDR made that had me think about laws enforcing certain dress style in other countries. Women can be arrested and face (severe) punishment sometimes, if they do not conform. They are not part of any organisation, like you mention.

I am not sure how allowing for the needs of a humanoid alien like Jasmia comes at the expense of the organisation as a whole…

Anyway, as I said before, I have always liked the TOS uniforms and colour schemes and prefer them to what came later in the spin-off series. Pants and skirts (from mini to below the knee) should remain optional for women. The design of the pants should be more tailored and better fitting on both the men and women. The Kirks don’t look that comfortable wearing the pants and they are not that flattering either. A pair of thick, strong black tights could also be a good, practical option for women, in that they also allow for freedom of movement and at the same time, the woman could wear a skirt or long top in the appropriate Starfleet colour, according to her position.

I found, what I now know to be the Picard maneouvre (LOL), quite annoying a lot of the time. It just showed how ill-fitting the uniform was in TNG. Why could they not sew Patrick Stewart a tunic that actually fitted him properly?

126. keachick - March 17, 2011

“a psychedelic butterfly at the small of their back”

That actually seems like it could look rather attractive. I have seen some pretty tattooes. Some are not the real deal as they do wash off after a while and probably just as well. I agree about the one of the Tasmania Devil smoking a joint – not good. Then again, they are probably avidly playing wargames on their X-boxes and going to see movies about Los Angeles being blown to mistherenes by alien forces – s’posed to be a good film.

Perhaps I do take things too seriously sometimes, but why all the criticism of what people wear or how they chose to decorate themselves? What has this got to do with (self) discipline?

127. Vultan - March 17, 2011

#126

Indeed, why all the criticism for what people wear—such as those people who put on uniforms, eh? ;)

And yes, self discipline does have something to do with that not-so-hypothetical someone who has the Taz tattoo on their neck. It suggests that maaaaaaybe this person is just a bit impulsive and maaaaaay not make the best babysitter… or military leader… or captain of a starship.

Oh, and psychedelic butterflies are beautiful—on paper. I shudder to think of all the twenty-something-year-olds out there with tramp-stamps who will one day have eighty-year-old skin and a butterfly that has sagged back into its cocoon. Reverse metamorphosis, you might say! :D

Well, that’s it for me. It’s been fun debating you, keachick. Stay safe in NZ, and watch out for those earthquakes. Best wishes from the States.

128. Phil - March 17, 2011

124. Vultan – March 17, 2011

Tramp stamps…..don’t need to say anything more…..

129. Phil - March 17, 2011

125. keachick – March 17, 2011

A lot of folks yammer away about realism on this page, and yet, mini skirts and boots with heals for the ladies? Not all that practical.

My son went into the Navy about a year ago, after spending two years after high school taking an occasional class at the community college, working a couple of retail jobs, and spending most of his time laying around the house watching ESPN. There was a foul up in his orders, he was supposed to be in Guam the first week in March. He e-mailed that he was very upset about not being a part of the refief effort in Japan. I reminded him that when he was in HS he was never interested in military service, at which point he told me “it’s different when you put the uniform on, Dad”. That’s the irony of this whole debate, that to best defend the freedom to be individuals, you need uniformity of purpose. I attended his graduation from basic training, and with the exception of the hats and some tailoring, there were no men or women on the parade floor, just sailors. Uniform in person, committed to purpose.

130. Red Dead Ryan - March 17, 2011

#122
……….

“You can go live in an Islamic republic where Sharia law rules. You know, places where the woman who is raped gets beheaded. Shall I go on?”

I don’t know how you managed to link my suggestion that MEN as well as WOMEN should dress more appropriately in public to Sharia Law. I assume then, that in New Zealand, violent crime is virtually non-existent, and that people are highly respectful of the law and of each other. Maybe your people are more enlightened and mature to deal with others going around naked. But where I’m from, women who are raped are humiliated by the judges who think they were “asking for it” by what they wore and the perpetrators are given little punishment. Teen boys gang-rape girls at parties and place the photos of the act on Facebook. Home invaders often kill victims during robberies and sexual assaults. Drugs are being dealt at schools. Kids are joining gangs. A lot of parents don’t care about what their children wear outside, and turn a blind eye to their bad behaviour.

There used to be dress codes in schools. Not anymore. People used to have to cover up tatoos at work. Not anymore. Sex used to be considered a private affair. Not anymore. Schools used to teach kids to be respectful of others and resolve their differences peacefully. Men and boys used to have more respect for women. Not anymore. See where I’m going?

131. Anthony Pascale - March 17, 2011

ok enough talk about rape and sharia and whatver. this is a star trek site and i think things are getting too political or at least unpleasant

132. keachick - March 17, 2011

It is a shame that you guys are unable to read exactly what I wrote in my posts. I did qualify my statements I made when referring to the NZ Bill of Rights. No, NZ has its share of violent crime, unfortunately. Whether it is more or less, I do not know. People’s rights are being violated in small and rather large, cruel and tragic ways. However, that should never mean that understanding and upholding basic human rights should be relegated to the spare room, even if it comes to upholding a person belonging to a naturist group right to be him/herself and giving appropriate protection from all who would violate that person’s rights. Some violaters are not rapists or any other kind of sex offenders. They simply don’t like the sight of another human body and that IS sad.

I also reiterate that I have no problem with uniforms per se. As I have said, I like the TOS uniforms and in my last post made suggestions as to how their wearability and design might be improved. There is little more that I can say. I do not feel you fully understand where I am coming from, but that’s OK. Different perspectives. Different opinions. Honest discussion usually finds a middle path between two apparent opposing attitudes and the result just might be better and more acceptable than either groups could ever have imagined.
I hope to see the crew of the Enterprise in the sequel looking better than ever, in whatever they may be wearing.

Remember: I am a woman and I have an eight year old daughter.

133. Phil - March 17, 2011

132. keachick – March 17, 2011

Oh, I think we understand, it’s just that sometimes emotion and nuance can get lost with the written word. Anyway, the moderators have spoken, so happy thoughts for all!!

Cheers…

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