Leonard Nimoy Defends New Star Trek Movie Universe + Doesn’t Expect Sequel Return + more | TrekMovie.com
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Leonard Nimoy Defends New Star Trek Movie Universe + Doesn’t Expect Sequel Return + more March 25, 2011

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Celebrity,Nimoy,Star Trek (2009 film),Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Tomorrow Leonard Nimoy turns 80, and in an extensive new interview  the original Spock looks back at his time with Star Trek and more. In his involvement in JJ Abrams’ 2009 Star Trek film, Nimoy defending the creation of a new Star Trek universe, but also said he does not expect to be making any more appearances in it. That and more from Nimoy below.

  

Nimoy defends new Star Trek movie universe – says has "closure" for Spock

In his interview with the official Star Trek website, Leonard Nimoy talked about his life in and out of Star Trek over the last four decades and more. One of the more interesting bits came in a discussion about the sometimes controversial element of creating a new timeline for the 2009 Star Trek movie. Nimoy strongly endorsed it, saying the team really didn’t have a choice:

I think the alternate universe was necessary. I think it was a very solid idea and necessary because, although it broke canon in a certain kind of way, if they didn’t do the alternate universe, they would have broken canon in other ways. It was constricting. There was so much history to be dealt with that if they did not do the alternate universe it would have been so constricting and it would have been very, very difficult to tell an exciting story without stepping on some toes somewhere. So, by doing it this way, I think they gave themselves a new canvass to work with. I think it was a very wise idea.

Although he had a "great time" with the 2009 Star Trek film, he also feels it game him "a real good sense of closure". Therefore the actor says even if they "say please" he doesn’t plan to be back for the 2012 Star Trek film:

I’m really not expecting it to happen. I think I was useful in the last film and I think for me it really was the last film. I think the torch has been very successfully passed to a bunch of very talented young people, and not just Zachary, but Chris Pine and all of them. I think they’re very talented and will have a lot of fun, and I wish them well.


Nimoy happy with new timeline of "Star Trek" and ready to pass baton to Quinto

Nimoy on Spock smiles, unsung heroes, turning down 70s Trek TV series & more

For much more it is worth reading the full interview: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3.


Nimoy just following director’s orders to smile in Star Trek pilot

Comments

1. Driver - March 25, 2011

SPOCK LIVES!

2. Phil - March 25, 2011

Though others have shared the thought, Mr. Nimoy has offered up the best rationale for how Trek 2009 was brought to the screen. Thank you, sir, and happy birthday.

3. Peter N - March 25, 2011

He is Spock….

4. Schultz - March 25, 2011

@Driver (#1): TWICE! :)

5. Kirk, James T. - March 25, 2011

Could not agree with Nimoy more on the reasons for what JJ Abrams HAD TO DO for Star Trek to evolve and move forward.

6. allister gourlay - March 25, 2011

no. 5 here here!

7. Harry Ballz - March 25, 2011

I’m sure Chris Pine will appreciate Nimoy’s sincere compliment as to his talent.

Pine did a superb job in playing James T. Kirk.

8. Renée - March 25, 2011

Mr. Nimoy Happy Birthday,,,,,,
Live Long and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Well,,,,,,,,,, you know the rest.

9. Christopher Roberts - March 25, 2011

Happy Birthday, Mr. Nimoy.

I respectfully disagree with being unable to tell an exciting prequel story in the existing universe.

10. keachick - March 25, 2011

Happy Birthday, Leonard Nimoy. Thank you for Star Trek. You shared the original dream with Gene Roddenberry and was as determined to make it a reality as Gene R was. You also helped find the right man to play the inimitable Captain James Kirk of the prime universe. Very cool. Very cool. I bet nobody would have believed that long pointy ears could also look sexy…

11. The Picard Maneuver - March 25, 2011

In the end I agree, end on a high note. Spock was standing over the crew at the end of the movie, and he knew, that everything was going to be alright.

I can’t wait to get one, just one little taste of a tidbit from the new movie.

Happy Birthday Leonard, all the best!

12. dmduncan - March 25, 2011

Happy birthday Mr. Nimoy! A universe without you just wouldn’t be…logical.

13. Jeff Mitchell - March 25, 2011

Please, Please, Please…Get over it, Mr. Roberts! Like it or not it had to be done, and Thank God JJ did it well. Live Long and Prosper, Star Trek!!

14. AnotherScott - March 25, 2011

I think Star Trek II and Star Trek III together make a terrific single film that tell a complete story (and the two together are probably still shorter than Titanic or Dances With Wolves…)

15. Linda - March 25, 2011

Thank you so much for being such an enduring inspiration in my life. I have followed your career since the 60’s in the first series and am thrilled to be able to wish you a Happy 80th Birthday. Much love and admiration and Congratulations for a job well done – very well done indeed…

16. James T. West (no comma) - March 25, 2011

I don’t feel very comfortable with anyone referring to TSFS as needing a better story or construct! What it needed was a budget! I love this film, and it is my absolute fav of the TOS film series! (ST6:TUC is a cloooose 2nd)

Others have said it and I concur that the emotional element of TSFS was very reminiscent of the TOS! The crew sacrificing everything to save one of their own.

“What I’ve done, I had to do.”
“But at what cost? Your ship. Your son.”
“If I hadn’t tried, the cost would have been my soul.”

– Kirk and Sarek

Harve Bennett: Unsung hero of TOS film series!

17. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 25, 2011

Happy Birthday Mr Nimoy. You are the Cornerstone of Star Trek and Bill is the Lead. While De Kelley was the Hart of Star Trek. I have stated many times that even though I’m a Hard core Trek fan that I was really good with the new movie and endorsed it. With Mr. Nimoy himself and Majel Roddenberry endoresing Trek 09 that was all I needed. Trek 09 while a different timeline is a great timeline and I for one am so glad that Mr Nimoy gave us Spock one more time for the Big Screen. I do hope that we can see the Shat and Nimoy in Trek 12 one last time for the big and grand finale for there career as Kirk and Spock as they pass the torch to Pine and Quinto.

18. Dee - lvs moon' surface - March 25, 2011

#7- Harry Ballz

YES……………………………………………………………………………………definitely!

:-) :-)

19. Doug Skywalker - March 25, 2011

It was the best of times; it was the worst of times…

Happy Birthday, Mr. Nimoy. Surely, the best of times.

20. Dee - lvs moon' surface - March 25, 2011

Mr.. Nimoy is a man of great class! :-) :-)

21. Maj - March 25, 2011

@17

I don’t know . . .

I feel that might take away from the seriousness of the story. Spock prime in 09 was fine, but Shatner in the sequel would so obviously, just be a cameo for the actor, and besides the original character died in Generations. We must accept this, the TNG era of writers/producers decided to kill him off forever. Whatever their reasons may have been, it doesn’t matter now cause it happened and that’s that.

Also am one of those strongly against Kahn resurrection because there’s so many original ideas to come up with and instead to go back to focusing on old villains, ‘individual’ villains, and not a more complex set of incidents that would present the ‘big challenge’ for the characters in the story, for me personally I find the idea very unsatisfactory, but then I’m a Star Trek fan so my standards are pretty high. ;)

22. TrekkieJan - March 25, 2011

Leonard Nimoy is still so awesome. I see the rationale (but still very much dislike ST09. Too Star Wars, and too much blowing up of Vulcan and killing of Amanda. And way too much Spock and Uhura *gags* )

23. Captain Daddy - March 25, 2011

interesting about his feelings on Trek VI – and i agree, that film could have used some kind of interesting sci fi twist. it was too much of a straight political thriller

i wonder what the big mystrey/revelation about the klingons could have been?

that they were an off shoot of early man? (like the romulans are to Vulcans). hence why they were so aggressive and all that stuff – they are a more ‘pure’ version of human?

24. weyoun_9 - March 25, 2011

All due respect to what’s been before…A) Shatner is NOT in a place in his career where his presence in Trek would be anything but unnecessarily comical. B) The torch has been passed. Nimoy passed it. C) For Orci & Co. to shoehorn these guys in would not be honoring their legacy but placating to Shatner’s ego and fan pressure and would detract from their primary goal which is to write a solid script the builds on and improves upon what they’ve done so far. It’s time for the new crew to take center stage and move us forward.

25. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 25, 2011

The Scene that Bob Orci wrote for Shatner in Trek 09 would be a perfect way to start the new movie. Using the shat in a Holographic recording just before he went abord the Enterprise B would be a great way for Nimoy and Shat to end there Star Trek legecy as Kirk and Spock. Then the rest of the movie. Pine and Quinto take the torch and take us on a Grand Trek Adventure.

26. John from Cincinnati - March 25, 2011

“I think the alternate universe was necessary.”

In the words of Spock himself, the new movie resides in an ALTERNATE universe, totally separate from the original, not a replacement of.

27. Tom - March 25, 2011

# 25

Totally agree with you. I wonder what Mr. Orci thinks. I wonder if the team would “say please”. Maybe he’ll post his thoughts about this on the thread .

28. Browncoat1984 - March 25, 2011

I fully concur that making a new universe was the only way to go. A prequel, much like Enterprise, would just step on too many toes. A sequel to TNG would have the opposite problem in that it would most likely only appeal to past Trek fans and thus do as poorly as Nemesis and Insurrection did.

RE: Nimoy not in Trek 2012…I agree with that as well. This crew needs a movie to stand on their own and they don’t need Shatner or Nimoy to carry any screen weight with them. Nimoy was necessary for ’09 but for 2012 I think they can do fine on their own. They have a great cast of actors (evidenced by the fact that all of the main cast have gone on to have a good presence in other movies since then).

That being said, lets recap:

Nimoy then: “I’m retiring from acting after the Fringe finale”

Nimoy now: “I’m going to return to Fringe!” He’s also in a TV commercial isn’t he?

Nimoy then: I”m not doing anymore cons after 2010″

Nimoy now: he’s in HOW many cons this year?

So we’ll see if he sticks to his word.

29. Michael Hall - March 25, 2011

My problem is not so much the alternate universe concept per se, but with just how shallow and frivolous that universe ultimately turned out to be, a shift of the Trek timeline from Forbidden Planet territory to that of Top Gun and Star Wars. And I’m sorry to say I can’t agree with Mr. Nimoy on the necessity of this sort of reboot in the first place, given the potentially fascinating screenplay that could have been constructed around the background details we already knew about these characters. (And what we didn’t know about them, e.g. the details of Uhura’s African background, could have been just as compelling.) Kirk, caught up in a planetary revolution at fourteen, shy, bookish and put-upon by upper classmen–now that would have been the basis for a story both epic and consistent with what had gone on before, while being every bit as counter-intuitive and “fun” as the film we got instead.

30. Shunnabunich - March 25, 2011

Thank you, TrekkieJan and Michael Hall — it’s nice to have a voice of reason pop up every once in a while. Just because a parody’s been released through official channels doesn’t mean it isn’t a parody, or that we’re all required as Trekkies to like it.

31. captain_neill - March 25, 2011

I agree with what Nimoy is saying, the new team creating a new universe allows them to not worry about canon and keeps it separate from what came before but at the same time loosely still part of it.

However, being a lifelong fan I just have a preference for the prime universe.

32. Hat Rick - March 25, 2011

Leonard Nimoy is always such a class act. He may be 80, but he has the vigor of someone no older than half that age.

I hope he lives long and prospers!

33. Hat Rick - March 25, 2011

Also, I had no problems with Star Trek III whatsoever. I thought it was wonderful fun.

34. Rocket Scientist - March 25, 2011

30. You guys ain’t the only ones to think that. I grew up with the Prime Universe and it’s going to take a lot more than Trek 09 to replace it in my heart. It was fun but it was also lightweight and didn’t quite capture the essence of what attracted me to Trek. The biggest sticking point for me was Kirk’s character arc, though Pine did a very fine job in portraying the material he was given.

But what’s done is done. Regarding the new alternate timeline? “Let’s see what she’s got!”

35. Rocket Scientist - March 25, 2011

And a happy 80th birthday to “The Neem” (well, we call the other guy “The Shat”, don’t we?)

36. SoonerDave (formerly Author of "The Vulcan Neck Pinch for Fathers") - March 25, 2011

Agree completely, 33! I’m not sure what or how you would have executed that story any better – it was the unintended final third of a trilogy, it dealt with having to bring Spock back to the universe, and had to integrate Vulcan mythology in some substantial way. It was infinitely better than the rumored story I once heard that Spock’s “spirit” was “haunting” the Enterprise, entering random crew bodies and killing them off. Ugh!

Nimoy’s explanation of the practical necessity of the alternate timeline is one of the most sensible ones offered to date. Aside from the needless destruction of Vulcan, I have no problem with it.

37. BitterTrekkie - March 25, 2011

Sorry Leonard. The new movie sucked and the alternate universe crap was just lip service.

38. Phil - March 25, 2011

I understand that tastes will vary in terms of which version of the Star Trek they like – if some one prefers DS9 to the TOS, or STV to ST 09, that is their choice. Is it too much to ask from those armchair screenwriters who just seem to know that had we just stuck to the origonal universe everything would be okay to lay off the snotty asides? Fine, we get it, you think the last movie was a parody, shallow, frivolous. Most of this thread has been thanking Mr. Nimoy for his contribution to the franchise on the occasion of his birth. There will be plenty of other threads where you can whine about how horrible the last movie was.

39. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 25, 2011

As a Hard Core Trek Fan. I love them all. From Tos to Trek 09. I have seen ever Ep of every Series and all of the Movies many times over. If you have not done that. Then I do not consider you a hard core fan.
1. Hard core fan. Seen all of the Trek series and movies including the Animated many times over. Own all of the Tos Series and all of the Movies either on bluray and or DVD.
2 large Trek Fan. Seen all of the Tos and movies and Tng.
3. Trek Fan. Only seen one series and all of the movies.
4. Casual Trek Fan.
Seen all of the movies and some of the series.
5 Light Trek. Seen a few eps and a movie or two.

40. CaptainJoe - March 25, 2011

nothing in that interview is really being revealed for the first time, he discussed all those points in great detail in “I AM SPOCK”

41. Ivory - March 25, 2011

Nimoy and Shatner will be back at some point, most likely in the third film. You heard it here first.

42. Robert Paulson - March 25, 2011

Its a shame that Russel T Davis didn’t helm the last film. Look what he did for DR WHO. Move it forward with respect for the past. Now, compare that with JJA did to Trek. Disgracefull!

43. Thomas - March 25, 2011

43. Robert Paulson

Actually, there is an interesting through-line that can be drawn between J.J. Abrams and Russell T. Davies: Both took over long-time sci-fi franchises and successfully revived them & both drew flack for their handling of their work in certain fan quarters.

44. BitterTrekkie - March 25, 2011

38. Phil
Not on this website, Phil.

45. Iva - March 25, 2011

Oh, we would have messed up anyway so why not this way since it was also the easier route to take.
Great excuse. Really proud of what you have become.

46. Shunnabunich - March 25, 2011

@38: Mr. Nimoy made a point with which some of us disagreed, and we said so (with varying degrees of snark). That doesn’t mean that we respect him any less as an actor, as a person or as one of the formative members of Star Trek; nor was it particularly off-topic, since Nimoy’s comment had to do with the creation of ST09’s “alternate universe” as a way to wriggle free of the bonds of canon.

47. cd - March 25, 2011

Mr. Nimoy is living long and prospering. Happy Birthday!
I agree that the alternate universe was a good idea for Star Trek 2009; I just wish it would have been done better. (There is already a movie called Star Wars >;>})
And since they just had to destroy Vulcan, I hope the effects of that destruction are a major part of the sequel, i.e. the effects on the stability of the Federation and a perceived opportunity for its enemies. A lot of dramatic opportunity that I hope the writers take advantage of.

48. Rusty0918 - March 25, 2011

Nimoy is right on the rationale. I agree that this is something they had to do.

#47…Yeah, the effects of the destruction of Vulcan *SHOULD* be part of the sequel no matter what. But is this what Orci and Kurtzman have in mind? I don’t know. They could just easily dismiss it and shrug it off. I mean, any good writer would probably want to capitilize on the aftermath. Heck, as JMS of “Babylon 5″ said, the aftermath of the war can be more interesting and exciting than the war itself!

49. Michael Hall - March 25, 2011

“Fine, we get it, you think the last movie was a parody, shallow, frivolous. Most of this thread has been thanking Mr. Nimoy for his contribution to the franchise on the occasion of his birth.”

Well, sheesh. I was under the impression that the subtitle to this thread was “Nimoy defends new movie universe” when apparently in actuality it was “Fans take this opportunity to thank Nimoy for his contributions to Trek and wish him a happy birthday.” My bad, then. Happy birthday, Leonard, and my sincere thanks for the impact you’ve had on my life.

50. IJH - March 25, 2011

To # 39. You’re absolutely right, I love your definitions on being a trekkie. I wish everyone would follow your definitions. There would be the last confusion in the world would be a better place.

51. Phil - March 25, 2011

What the hell, some people just will not resist the chance to throw gas on a fire…

52. Harry Ballz - March 25, 2011

Funny how if you throw fire on gas, you get the same effect!

53. Vultan - March 25, 2011

Good one, Harry!

:D

54. Harry Ballz - March 25, 2011

Thanks, Vultan!

55. Vultan - March 25, 2011

I agree with Nimoy that some sort of departure from “canon” was needed at this point. However, I wish the studio had been a bit more daring and gone with an entirely new ship and crew in this new universe—the precise reason the whole Kelvin sequence was my favorite part of the new movie.

Oh well, I guess they can just set aside the new stuff for Trek’s return to television. (C’mon, you know it’ll eventually happen.)

56. Newman - March 25, 2011

Leonard Nimoy you are a very classy man.

57. Harry Ballz - March 25, 2011

They should include Leonard Nimoy in the next movie.

Do you know why?

Because they can!

58. keachick - March 25, 2011

“1. Hard core fan. Seen all of the Trek series and movies including the Animated many times over. Own all of the Tos Series and all of the Movies either on bluray and or DVD.”

Unfortunately, I don’t fit into this definition, but even less so with the others. I have never seen TAS – it was never screened in NZ (as far as I know). I think I would have noticed if it had been. Apart from that, I believe I have seen every single Star Trek show (TV and movies) ever made at least once. However, the only Star Trek DVDs I have are Star Trek IV (videotape busted) and Star Trek 09. I do not own the entire TOS series on bluray or DVD. I have some TOS on videotapes as well as many other episodes from all Star Trek spin-off series. Apart from the two DVDs mentioned, all the other films are on videotape and one or two of them are more than 20 years old.

So could I be referred to as being a soft core Star Trek fan? I am amazed at what I read that some people have. I don’t watch Star Trek every day. I guess my priorities differ a little, but I still LOVE Star Trek and always have, ever since I first saw it as a little girl on a small b/w TV set.

I agree with what Leonard Nimoy said about Star Trek 09. Creating an alternate universe was a sensible and clever piece of writing. L/O/K – take a bow!

I never saw anything frivolous or shallow about the situation that the Kelvin found themselves and what George Kirk felt he had to do in order to save the crew, who included his wife and son. We barely know this universe. It is really silly to make such comments about the universe or the characters at this point in the process of discovering what there is to know about this timeline…

59. David G. - March 25, 2011

This just in: Nimoy has signed to star in a spinoff sitcom on CBS this fall called “S#@% My Former Next Door Neighbor Says.”

60. Phobos - March 26, 2011

The Spock character has inlfuenced my life from a very young age. Thank you Mr. Nimoy and all the best on your 80th.

61. Chris Dawson - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday Leonard Nimoy!

62. DonDonP1 - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday, Len! (Short for ‘Leonard’) May you live long and prosper!

63. Matthias Wieprecht - March 26, 2011

Spock, played by Leonard Nimoy, is somehow a monument, a symbol that is symbolising real STAR TREK. In the moment I knew, Leonard Nimoy is playing an important part in the Abrams-Star Trek, I also knew, it would be a goog story. He did not play his role in GENERATIONS – and yes, GENERATIONS was somehow frustrating. Mr. Nimoy has a real good sense for good stories and especially good Star Trek. Happy Birthday, Mr. Nimoy!

64. CmdrR - March 26, 2011

Thank you! Have an energizing and joyous birthday!

A fan.

65. Norman Bates - March 26, 2011

37. BitterTrekkie – March 25, 2011

Sorry Leonard. The new movie sucked and the alternate universe crap was just lip service.

—————————————————————————————————

What? The new movie was ace, Star Trek was well dead and burried before JJ and team came along. You are indeed very bitter!

Mother says go and play with your balls!

66. Norman Bates - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday Mr. Nimoy.

67. Jeyl - March 26, 2011

Frankly Mr. Nimoy, I disagree. There’s nothing wrong with a show having a long history of characters and stories. A lot of moments in Star Trek’s history had consequences that affected future shows. How can we expect to take anything seriously if we restart the canon every time some writer doesn’t want to do a little research?

The alternate universe is simply the writers taking the easy way out.

68. trekprincess - March 26, 2011

I agree with Mr Nimoy about Star Trek 09 as I am a loyal Star Trek 09 fan I think it was right they created the new universe that means the prime and the alternate can sit beside each other, I think long term fans need to get over the changes and enjoy it just my 2 cents

69. TrekMadMeWonder - March 26, 2011

The smile. An i’ll conceived attempt by a Vulcan to assimilate with his crew. Spock must have overheard that “walking freezer unit” line on the Bridge..

70. Lydia Roberts - March 26, 2011

The Orion Syndicate should be the villains of the sequel as they are essentially the Mafia of the Star Trek universe, involved in piracy, smuggling, and extortion.

I hope that Lady Gaga has a cameo. With her futuristic music and style, she would fit right in.

Midway through Star Trek 12, I’d like to see Kirk, Spock and McCoy go undercover to a concert of hers on a distant planet like with Diva Plavalaguna in The Fifth Element (1997). Her character (the most famous and successful singer in the Alpha Quadrant) could have dark connections to the Orion Syndicate. An explosively intense, thunderous phaser fight could erupt interrupting the show when she sings Bad Romance, Paparazzi, Poker Face or Just Dance between Kirk, Spock and McCoy and some Orion Syndicate henchmen.

71. Evelyn - March 26, 2011

J.J. Abrams, Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman need to surpass the last film and rectify the mistakes that they made because as much as it was a tremendous film, I was still privately disappointed because it could have easily have been so much better. Larger all-star cast as well as many cameos including by William Shatner, larger space battles with more starships, James Kirk having better fighting skills and several (human love interests) and the Jerry Goldsmith theme music from the Star Trek Insurrection end credits used at the end.

Four stunningly beautiful and talented actresses were wasted in the last movie and should have had more screentime. Jennifer Morrison only appeared at the beginning and we don’t find out what happened to her, Rachel Nichols was only in it for three minutes and we don’t find out what happened to her, Winona Ryder was in it for nearly ten minutes and was needlessly killed off and Diora Baird’s only scene was cut.

The Jerry Goldsmith theme music from the Star Trek Insurrection end credits should have been used at the end. The Original Series theme music and new theme music in the movie was unnecessary. The soundtrack was disappointing overall. ‘Labour of Love’ was the best part of it.

I hope that there are no cut scenes in the sequel. All of the cut scenes should have been included in the last film. J.J. Abrams made a bad call removing the Rura Penthe scenes. He said that the test audiences were confused by those scenes in particular. I am at a loss as to what was so confusing about the inclusion of the Klingons in the film. It was absolutely shocking to leave such a huge plot hole regarding where the villains were for 25 years. It makes them look lazy and stupid on top of the fact that they were superficial. Nero and Ayel would have had more depth at least as well.

72. Justin Beaver - March 26, 2011

James Kirk lost nearly every fight in Star Trek (2009). He should have been a hardcore badass like Liam Neeson in Taken. The fight between Kirk and Nero was pointless and anticlimactic. A wasted opportunity for an amazing and action-packed fight which would have made Kirk’s triumph at the end all the more emotional and uplifting. He didn’t seem to care about avenging his father. He should have gone after Nero after shooting Ayel. The fight between Jean–Luc Picard and Shinzon at the climax of Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) was more satisfying and even the William Riker and Reman Viceroy showdown.

I was really disappointed that they killed off George Kirk in Star Trek (2009). Chris Hemsworth gave a tremendous performance and the scene at the beginning of the film was heartbreakingly sad. It is unfortunate that they won’t revisit the character and now Hemsworth’s career is going to explode when Thor is released, it is highly unlikely he will ever reprise the role. It would have been good to have even done a film centred on George Kirk and shown how he got together with Jennifer Morrison’s character, Winona Kirk. When it was announced that James Kirk’s parents would be included in the film, it seemed that there would be several flashbacks with his parents in them but this did not turn out to be the case.

73. Brian L - March 26, 2011

Of course Mr Nimoy is gracious as always and I enjoyed his work on Trek but haven never seen or intend to see the reboot. To me it isn’t Trek. Thanks for the chance to meet Mr Nimoy in 2001 in Indianapolis

74. Planet Pandro - March 26, 2011

72.

back when we were learning new details about the movie’s cast and characters like George Kirk (sr and jr), Winona Kirk, Pike etc…I too envisioned flashbacks as opposed to a linear story. Or, considering we knew that Nimoy Spock was going to be traveling in time, I also thought maybe he’d be hitting different eras back and forth, sort of a “Back to the future 2″ set in the Trek Universe. That was my initial perception anyway.

75. Alex Rosenzweig - March 26, 2011

#9 – Christopher speaks for me, as well.

Happy Birthday, Mr. Nimoy!

As for the alternate universe, I’ve written over 2 million words in the Trekverse, for my own fun, and I have never found continuity to be constricting in the least. But that’s just me, and I’m sure Mr. Nimoy truly believed in the project, because a man of his integrity wouldn’t have done it otherwise. Still, I’d really hoped for the TOS prequel they’d promised us at the outset. Oh, well… There’s always “Origins”, once it’s ready for release. ;)

Nonetheless, while I’ll certainly see the sequel film once, and maybe a second time if it’s really, really good, most of my consumer dollars will be supporting Primeverse Trek, and alternates/reboots need not apply. Again, just how I feel about this sort of thing.

76. cdp - March 26, 2011

67

As a long time star trek fan I am going to have to disagree with you on the fact that creating the alternate universe was simply the writers taking the easy way out. We should all be standing up applauding what JJ and crew did because it was ingenious. Like it or not Star Trek was becoming old and stagnant you could tell that with the decline in ratings with Star Trek Enterprise and the poor box office numbers of Star Trek Nemeses. What Star Trek 09 did was breath new life into trek and create a whole new generation of Star Trek fans who before this movie would of cared less about Star Trek and now there going back and watching episodes of the original series and other incarnations of he series that they would have never done before something I don’t believe would have happened had they made the movie in the prime time line and stuck to canon. I may me in the minority or majority on this I don’t know but I am very grateful for what JJ and crew did and I think we should all be grateful because it has been a long time since star trek has created this much excitement and buzz. Now if they wanted to create a movie just like star trek 09 but in the prime time line I think it might be successful since we now pulled more fans in to Star Trek.

77. Woulfe - March 26, 2011

Jerry Goldsmith isn’t around to do more Star Trek music, he’s kinda busy not living anymore you know.

Might be why we won’t hear any of his musical cues, out of respect for him, I think the next film will have more nods to Alex Courage now that they’ve done the Introduction film with his theme showcased at the end of it.

The next film will open with the TOS theme, booming out the first notes in HD quality sound w/ full orchestra playing the theme right out of the gate, the fanfare big as brassy like as the new film opens.

the title card “STAR TREK” and under it “pineapple” in the same lettering.

– W –
* smirks *

78. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - March 26, 2011

Wonderfull article Happy Birthday

79. Harry Ballz - March 26, 2011

The alternate universe gives the latest movies more drama. It gives each film an “edge” because ANYONE could die. Where’s the conflict/drama in a prequel of the original universe when you KNOW the main players are perfectly safe?

That’s it in a nut shell.

80. Jeyl - March 26, 2011

“The alternate universe gives the latest movies more drama. It gives each film an “edge” because ANYONE could die. Where’s the conflict/drama in a prequel of the original universe when you KNOW the main players are perfectly safe?”

Yes, because when I think of good Star Trek story that involves drama, the first thing that comes to my mind is “WHO’S GOING TO DIE?!”. And nothing emphasizes that notion more when you have the entire original crew survive and retain their ranks and positions. (Except for Uhura, who the writers have successfully made the coms station everybody’s station but hers). And Earth, the planet that has always been the focus of the bad guys attention almost three times in a row now is still the planet that gets to be saved. How exactly did Trek09 add drama when all it did was resort to the same old formula that’s been plaguing Star Trek since The Motion Picture?

If you really want to change Star Trek in a way that really affects it, destroy Earth and save Vulcan. It’d be a lot better for Star Trek in the long run because then the writers would actually have to think of ways to make an interesting story instead of relying on a planet that really shouldn’t be important at all in Star Trek. How can Star Trek “Boldly go where no one has gone before” when all it does is go back?

81. ensign joe - March 26, 2011

“What the hell, some people just will not resist the chance to throw gas on a fire…”

Ahem… … ♫ We didn’t start the fire! ♫

:P

82. ensign joe - March 26, 2011

@75 Alex Rosenzweig

I’m saving up hope they can go back to an animated format similar in vain to the Star Wars Clone Wars series. Hell I’d take an animated Excelsior series if George is up to it.. have some Shat cameos and everything..

83. MC1 Doug - March 26, 2011

#9: “I respectfully disagree with being unable to tell an exciting prequel story in the existing universe.”

I agree to a point. If they were simply filming a prequel and nothing more, yeah, they could have told an exciting story without breaking ranks from established canon.

BUT we’re (they’re) not simply looking to film one story. After more than 600+ stories, how can the future of TREK move forward without repeating itself?

Establishing a new future line frees the producers (and Paramount) to pursue a line of stories that can freely contradict already established canon… and now, create its own canon (as long as they do it within the guidelines established by Gene Roddenberry).

Go boldly… and intelligently (I don’t want to see TREK play as “Star Wars”).

84. Edwin - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday Mr. Nimoy! We share the same birthday! Have fun

85. Dee - lvs moon' surface - March 26, 2011

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MR. NIMOY! … I really have a huge admiration and respect for you!

:-) :-)

86. da laffin tlhIngan - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday– it was the best of times, and it will continue to be so :)

87. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

Happy birthday Leonard.

88. SonnyB. - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday to a true artist and a gentleman in every sense.

Still living long and prospering . . .

89. VZX - March 26, 2011

I agree that Spock smiling in the pilot was stupid. Sure, the Vulcan way was not fully realized yet, but he looked like a young girl who just found a flower. That said, “The Cage,” on its own, is a great piece of science fiction. With or without the Star Trek connection.

As the story goes, Roddenberry had to fight the brass to keep Spock on the crew, at how necessary it was to have at least one alien seen as an equal among them. Nowadays, an alien amongst a sci-fi cast is a given, But Roddenberry did it first! Gene R FTW!

90. Maj - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday Spock

91. Majicou - March 26, 2011

@72:
I can’t really agree about the fights. It’s implied that Starfleet teaches self-defense to most cadets at the Academy, and Kirk should be able to (and does) hold his own in a fight, but he’s not freakin’ Jet Li. I was getting tired of the “captain confronts the villain one-on-one” device since the TNG films all used it or nearly used it. Good ol’ fisticuffs is okay on occasion, but I think they hit that button too many times. It only happens once, really, in the TOS films with Kirk vs. Kruge.

92. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 26, 2011

Once again. Happy Birthday to Leonard Nimoy. 80 today but looks like he is just 40. May you Live Long and Prosper.

93. boborci - March 26, 2011

80.

you’ll even argue with Spock himself when he is trying to teach you something.

Makes me feel better, somehow.

94. boborci - March 26, 2011

Alright all you geniuses saying prequel within prime universe can work:

Pitch it to me.

95. Zee - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday, Leonard Nimoy! LLAP

96. Canon Schmanon - March 26, 2011

The love for Leonard is fairly universal! He’s definitely not the polarizing personality that is William Shatner. I think the difference is that Leonard seems very much at peace with himself. Shatner definitely hasn’t. If you listen to his very confessional album Has Been, he comes right out and admits it, especially in the “song” It Hasn’t Happened Yet. A pretty brave piece, really.

If Bill were to sit back and stop working for a while, he’d have to face some demons he’s been avoiding his whole life, I think. Whatever demons Leonard had, he seems to have tamed them. I love them both, but I was glad to see Nimoy in the 2009 Star Trek, rather than Shatner. I think his Kirk should stay dead. I’m sorry that I feel that way, but I do.

97. Impending Doom - March 26, 2011

I agree with Mr. Nimoy’s opinion on why they changed to the alternate reality. What bothers me about the new movie are the not-so-subtle Star Wars elements, and the cadet-to-captain transition. It made no sense and Star Trek and Star Wars need to be kept separate.

We need a new director for Trek ’12. One without an overt Star Wars bias.

98. boborci - March 26, 2011

97. It made sense because it is a reflection of the world we live in, which is what treks supposed to do.

99. Red Dead Ryan - March 26, 2011

I don’t get the all this hatred against “Star Wars”. Without “Star Wars”, we wouldn’t have this website. And “Star Trek” would NOT have become what it is today. It would have remained a mere 60’s tv show that only a few people would’ve cared about.

100. D D - March 26, 2011

Totally agree with Mr Nimoy. :)

101. boborci - March 26, 2011

99.

Right? Not only that — trek came first! And Lucas himself couldn’t even reboot wars the second time around!

102. Hallbjorn - March 26, 2011

Thumbs up to Bob Orci !

103. Vultan - March 26, 2011

#98

If rehashing old TV shows and movies is what our times are about, then I’d say you nailed it.

How’s the new Airwolf coming along? Or is it the Rockford Files?

#99

Funny how the different Trek movies and series through ’79 to the ’00s went along without anyone saying “punch it” when going to hypersp—I mean, warp.

Just saying…

The Bourne books and movies owe pretty much everything to Ian Fleming, but I don’t recall Jason ever saying, “Bourne. Jason Bourne… Now what’s my real name?!”

;D

104. Harry Ballz - March 26, 2011

That’s the name for the next movie:

STAR TREK: THE GORN IDENTITY

Oooooh! Now I’m excited! :>)

105. Trekprincess - March 26, 2011

I totally agree with Mr Nimoy as well on the new Star Trek film :)

106. Rocket Scientist - March 26, 2011

100. I don’t think it’s hatred toward Star Wars per se, but Trek and SW have their own identities and are appreciated separately for their individual strengths. Blending the two is kind of a mixed bag. Works for some folks, but for others? Not so much.

107. boborci - March 26, 2011

103. Here is a free lesson for you…

Actually, I changed my mind.

108. Jonny - March 26, 2011

This “Trek” holds as much water as “Yesterdays Enterprise” with a third of the story value. So many plot holes! Orci, Kurtzman – seriously… sci fi it may be, but there were so many points you copped out of that the drama alone is as deep as a petrie dish. You devalued Spock as a character because Kirk would have taken all pains to restore the timeline… Spock simply allowed it to continue.

This was a bad movie all round, and Jar Jar Abrams and Bad Reboot Productions won’t be getting my ticket money for the travesty that’s sure to be the next sequel.

109. Vultan - March 26, 2011

#104

A reptile space captain with amnesia—sounds like Oscar material to me!

110. Hat Rick - March 26, 2011

103, I’m still waiting for the remake of I Dream of Jeannie remake.

^^ You know what? When I thought up that sentence, I thought I was making up that idea. But just now I Googled it and they really ARE in the development stages of an I Dream of Jeannie remake.

As a movie.

This universe just gets more and more bizarre.

“A staple of 1960s television is about to get the reboot treatment for the big screen. The Los Angeles Times is reporting that Sony has hired United States of Tara writer Sheila Callaghan to write a film remake of I Dream of Jeannie.” (From MovieWeb.com.)

Now, I really don’t mind if they redo Airwolf, ’cause I liked the original. Or the Six Million Dollar Man. Or any of that stuff. I kind of look forward to the current take on these TV classics.

One thing that just popped into my mind was the unique take on Wild Wild West in that 1999 movie with Will Smith. I kind think that the type of revisionism that movie represented went a bit too far. It was a bit too jokey, a bit too satirical. But as with most creative solutions, the difference is in degree.

Remakes, reboots, and revisions all have a tendency toward controversy. How many times can you portray the Man of Steel and still be creatively fresh? What did they do with Batman in the latest reboot? Was that legitimate? Is the movie version of Iron Man actually true to the source? All points to ponder.

In the end, and especially to casual observers, it’s all just entertainment, basically. We want stuff that is fun to watch and talk about.

I think that some were disappointed that NuKirk was portrayed almost as a callow youth, and that there was barnyard humor (literally) in the movie. (Not only has sex with WHAT now?) But that’s part of the deal — that business we call show. It’s kind of got to have that edge, that frak-it-all sensibility that, nearing half a century after the Star Trek was first conceived, would have been impossible to realize in the original.

Part of the beauty of Trek is that it can be used for a number of reasons, in a number of ways, and still remain relevant and attractive to all audiences.

Trek, in that way, reminds me of the viscissitudes of life itself. It can throw you a curve, and it can disappoint you, but by and large, you better believe it’s worth it.

111. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

103. Vultan – March 26, 2011

#98

If rehashing old TV shows and movies is what our times are about, then I’d say you nailed it.

***

And if you don’t like the rebooted Star Trek, the net is preponderantly filled with sites were trekmovie is NOT sandwiched between www. and .com

Why you would complain about “rehashing” Star Trek on a site dedicated to a “rehashed” franchise is bizarre, but easily enough resolved on your end by going somewhere less offensive to your taste.

112. Vultan - March 26, 2011

#107

Sorry if I came across as borish, Bob, but my rant was more directed at the industry as a whole (at least it should have been). Because when you see Hollywood scrambling to remake Drop Dead Fred, The Munsters (again), and a slew of other B-movies and TV shows from the past 40 years, is does get a little depressing… and frustrating.

113. Vultan - March 26, 2011

#111

Hmm, telling someone to go away instead of engaging them in a debate—what has happened to the web?!

;)

114. Harry Ballz - March 26, 2011

110. Hat Rick

“life…can throw you a curve…can disappoint you…you better believe it’s worth it”

Or else what?

115. Hat Rick - March 26, 2011

Or else you’re out. Something like that.

I dunno. If I did, I’d be making a mint instead of posting on Trek BBS boards.

116. Hat Rick - March 26, 2011

I mean, what can you do about life’s curve balls? You deal with it. You have a self-defense mechanism. I don’t want to get all psychobabble on y’all, but getting a handle on life’s problems is the essential part of living. It’ s a circular argument, but I can’t think of a better way to explain it.

I have a real proclivity toward explaining away most of Trek’s inconsistencies. Life itself isn’t consistent. People you meet — their behavior varies, even from day to day. It’s how you deal with differences that determines whether you are successful — or even happy.

That said, not everyone faces the same set of challenges, and some challenges can be more difficult for some people than for others — not merely because they SEEM more difficult, but because they actually ARE more difficult, objectively.

It takes a real effort to be happy, sometimes, and it’s too easy to give in to cynicism and negativity. The pursuit of happiness is a long journey, and life is short.

117. VZX - March 26, 2011

94. boborci – March 26, 2011
Alright all you geniuses saying prequel within prime universe can work:

Pitch it to me.

OK: Kirk meets Spock and Bones within the prime universe. Throw in some explosions, tear-jerking moments, and villains that threaten the galaxy and there’s your movie!

118. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

113: “Hmm, telling someone to go away instead of engaging them in a debate—what has happened to the web?!”

I’m NOT telling you to go away. I AM telling you it’s trollish to make that complaint in the context of this site, and you have other options rather than breaking out the violin yet again if you really actually truly have those feelings.

This site is ABOUT a rebooted franchise. And as much as I may agree with you that the TREND of rebooting everything is a bad sign, I think most of us would probably also agree that Star Trek is one of those things that deserves it. Hence our presence on this site.

119. boborci - March 26, 2011

108. Happy to debate the “holes”

120. Phil - March 26, 2011

91. Majicou – March 26, 2011

Kirk vs. Soran, Kirk vs. David Marcus, Kirk vs. Klingon prisoners, Kirk vs. Kirk……

121. boborci - March 26, 2011

111

Fair point. Open to any specific gripe today.

122. boborci - March 26, 2011

117

Did that!

123. Phil - March 26, 2011

117. VZX – March 26, 2011

ummm…isn’t that what they did?

124. Jonny - March 26, 2011

1. Cadet to Captain. I bet the other members of Starfleet are happy that all the work they did to acheive rank was for nothing when all you have to do is subvert the chain of command and just annoy your way to command.

2. Pike in a wheelchair. From swallowing a bug?

3. Kirk’s older brother. Should have been about three or four by the time little Jimmy was born.

…just to name a couple.

125. Harry Ballz - March 26, 2011

119. Bob Orci “Happy to debate the ‘holes'”

Um, is that the slang word for people who disagree with you? Y’know, shortened from the longer version of the word that usually has “ass” in front of it?

126. Jonny - March 26, 2011

Heh… in his defense, it was in reference to my plot hole comment, not a cheap jab (I hope).

127. Phil - March 26, 2011

@124. Most of these are “who cares” points that 90% of the audience would not have given a bit of thought too. The cadet to captain thing was beat to death on this site a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, a military guy might have issues with that, but a physist is going to have problems with faster then light drive, too. Gotta suspend that disbelief for a couple of hours

128. Jonny - March 26, 2011

@127 Correct. The attention deficit audience. A physicist might also have an issue with how one supernova can threaten a galaxy. It’s obvious that a bit more research could have been done.

129. boborci - March 26, 2011

124.

1. The most powerful man in the world is a first term senator. The previous most powerful man in the world was a coke snorting, abortion having, DUI arrested, draft dodging, failed business running son of former ” captain.”

It’s the world we live in. You cannot pretend otherwise.

2. From being tortured by Romulans. Really? Alien bug, and your expert opinion is that it can’t put you in a wheel chair?

3. Canon source, please?

130. Punkspocker - March 26, 2011

Love Quinto, but I worship Nimoy! Happy birthday, you beautiful person!

131. Jonny - March 26, 2011

- Arguably the most powerful. Politics is a completely different structure than a military one, even a pseudo military like Starfleet. This Kirk never earned his stripes, and track record to date says he’s an insubordinate little tool.

– Something similar crawled into Chekov’s ear in ST:II and he appeared to be none the worse off for it.

– TOS Episode “Operation: Annihilate!”

132. boborci - March 26, 2011

128. Look it up. SN can threaten 10,000 light years. Memory alpha says federation stretches 10,000 light years. Therefore, SN threatens known universe.

133. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 26, 2011

Hey Bob Orci. Under Extreme Threat of the Agoniser Booth for 48 hours set on high you need to answer this question.
Are you Truly excited about the Script for Trek 2012. You can answer Yes or No.

134. Jonny - March 26, 2011

I think ‘threatens known universe’ might be stretching that a bit. If that were the case, then it would stand to reason several other Federation planets would have a vested interest in stopping it, yet it appears they sent an aging ambassador?

135. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 26, 2011

Ok. One more question. Can you give us an update on the script. 25% 50% 75% Please at least give us something of an update. Please!!!!!!!!

136. Quatlo - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday to my mom (88 and still going strong) and Mr. Nimoy.

137. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 26, 2011

As a Hard core fan of all of Trek I like the new Universe a lot. As Spock would always say. There are always possibilitys. With that being said I will not nitpick Trek 09. Except for the Engineering room. That needs to change. Other then that there is so much about the Galaxy we do not know and I feel that the science of Trek 09 was solid. I’m not a Scientest by any strecth but what I do know is that the court got some great people from N.A.S.A to help them out just like Trek has always done with science.

138. Phil - March 26, 2011

@128. The attention deficit audience? Come on, this is a movie, not the SAT’s. Intelligent, non-sci fi flicks have done well, so why would anyone craft a movie that required a canon enterance exam, and expect it to make money? When I buy a ticket, I’m expecting the moviemakers to tell me a story. Make me connect with the characters, entertain me. ST 09 succeeded. If you want to pick this movie apart because some point of minutiae didn’t properly fit canon, fine – however that does not mean the audience are idiots. I’d further submit that if a filmmakers held that opinion they would not be making movies for long. It’s not good to alienate your audience.

139. boborci - March 26, 2011

131. – Don’t be dense. Original Kirk is JFK, sub textually. Established in pop culture history through media and rodenberry himself.

– Pike Tortured by Nero, on and off screen. Weak, weak argument.

140. boborci - March 26, 2011

133. So friggin yes!

141. boborci - March 26, 2011

134. They sent one of the greatest heroes in the universe.

His name is Mr. Spock.

142. boborci - March 26, 2011

137.

Noted.

143. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 26, 2011

Bob. Good Answer. You are safe from the Agoniser Booth. At least till the movie comes out. But as the Enterprise song said. I have faith of the Hart that you will blow us all away with an Epic Star Trek Movie.

144. boborci - March 26, 2011

135. 75 percent.

145. Jonny - March 26, 2011

Wow… that was some comeback… you sure told me.

G’luck with the sequel.

146. NX-UESPA Class Starship - March 26, 2011

The only thing I have to say is……..

“Happy Birthday, Mr. Nimoy!”

May you live long and have a prosperous life.

Also may you live longer than 100 years old.

I hope all your dreams came true, all your goals accomplished and achieved.

Long Live and Happiness.

147. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 26, 2011

Thank you Bob for the update. 75% done. Yes!. As Uhurah said in Trek 3. All our Hopes. In this case. For the best Trek movie ever made and wrote. No Pressure Bob.

148. Phil - March 26, 2011

142. boborci – March 26, 2011

I like the idea of Scotty being able to pour a cold one in engineering. I’m thinking a few people could use one, now…

Nothing wrong with engineering. Take the Queen Mary tour sometime. Pipes, machinery, storage tanks everywhere. People eat, drink water, and do the laundry on a starship, and flush the toilet. Where do you suppose all that stuff goes in a closed ecosystem?

149. boborci - March 26, 2011

145. You rock!

150. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - March 26, 2011

Phill. I think I can answer that one. All of that waist and water gets reconsituted and is made back into fresh water and food. In the Tos Series MCcoy said on a couple of occasions that he could use a non reconstituted meal. In Enterprise they even talked about that in more length. So the same thing would apply with what you seen in Trek 09. But. I still do not like the Engineering set. That is the only thing about Tek 09 I did not like.

151. the Quickening - March 26, 2011

Just don’t agree, Leonard. The alternate universe approach comes off as: lame, lazy, easy, gimmicky, and an artifice, as far as I’m concerned, because we really know why it’s there: to appease fans. That’s not the fountain one should draw stories from when writing.

This notion–and that’s all it is, a notion–that entertaining stories are no longer possible in the A-universe is just hilarious. What’s really required is creativity.

TREK already requires suspension of disbelief, and by adding this B-universe approach, you also add a whole new layer of fabrication to an already fabricated fictional universe, which to me just adds further to the contrivance; now it’s a contrivance times two; thank you very much.

To me, STAR TREK is just an entertainment–I’m not into canon, and would have rather seen 10 canon violations, per movie, than the artifice that now exist, but that’s me.

152. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

boborci:

This thread is a real gut-buster to read. I find it laughingly difficult to understand how some people are still so against the alternate timeline of ST09 when such timelines were introduced in canon long before.

Good grief! It allowed us to enjoy, (and savor), watching once more, the one, the only, Leonard Nimoy as the original, the awesome, the flat-out most popular television character of all time: SPOCK ON THE BIG SCREEN…..AND alongside a completely new TOS-ERA CREW! Fantastic! Brilliant! How can that be wrong?

It even allows us to plausibly consider the inclusion of other original TOS actors such as…..dare I say it….SHATNER. [ OMG — Why can’t we see SHATNER AND NIMOY ON THE BIG SCREEN one more time ??? ]

—- Just a six year old kid who met Shatner at a Kentucky campground in 1973 and thought the genuine kindness of the all-time Captain was really cool. (Apparantly Nimoy was also there camping but I did not get to meet him.) PLEEEEEEASE find a way to get this most incredible duo back together on the big screen in a Star Trek Movie!

NOW IS THE TIME TO GET THIS DONE RIGHT! — PLEASE!

153. grover s - March 26, 2011

Bob Orci… I had a great time watching ST09, and look forward to the sequel. It’s also fun to have you here engaging with us.

For what it’s worth: I did find myself wondering about things like the coincidence of Kirk and Spock in the cave, and it seems you did too, but some dialogue was cut for time and whatnot. For what it’s worth: I think the audience will buy a stretch like that, and you can in fact win them over in a big way, if you show them you’ve thought it through too, even if it’s just via a line or two of dialogue. The ‘timeline repairing itself’ idea would have been cool to have in there. Maybe Kirk’s rapid promotion could be addressed the same way…? e.g. Other characters might give him a hard time about it?

In any case, best of luck with the remaining 25%!

154. Tom - March 26, 2011

#152 You are on the money.
Thanks for the update Bob. I am so pumped that you are tottaly jacked up on the script. With 25% to go maybe we can see Kirk Prime and ( shut him up) Spock Prime(beg him back). Also know that the character moments and action will be AWESOME.

155. Phil - March 26, 2011

150. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire – March 26, 2011

Agreed….and to do that, it requires equipment. Really, how it looks is not that big of a deal to me, and I’m not going to yell at you about it.

A buddy of mine got me hooked on the TOS in the mid 70’s, about the time I saw 2001 for the first time. Loved the Enterprise, big, clean, and slick. Never struck me as all that functional, though. Enterprise was my fictional spaceship, but always figured a real one would look a bit more like 2001. That’s why I find some of these rants about starship design so amusing, because it’s a lot of elevated blood pressure over artistic design, not structural design. I’m sure someone will be calling me an idiot here, real soon.

156. Vultan - March 26, 2011

#118

I wasn’t at all trying to be a troll, but when Orci explains that reusing material from other sources is “with the times,” it does open a valid argument against such methods.

I did enjoy certain parts of Trek ’09 (namely the Kelvin sequence), but I still don’t think Trek “deserved” to be remade—as if that’s some kind of honor now! A new ship with new characters would have been more refreshing. It has been done before with, of course, varying degrees of success, but those attempts did come across as a bit more… uh, “boldly going.”

157. Vultan - March 26, 2011

But, having said all that, I still welcome whatever the filmmakers want to throw at us. New Trek, remade or whatever, is still more entertaining than about 90% of the nonsense out there today!

158. Christopher Roberts - March 26, 2011

94. boborci – “Alright all you geniuses saying prequel within prime universe can work: Pitch it to me.”

A film that covers several crossroads in the life and career of James T Kirk, each years apart but connected in some way by the same antagonist. Once his childhood hero – who then goes off the rails and is a hurdle to overcome before he takes command of the Enterprise.

Similar to the last film, I’d show key moments from Spock’s life in parallel to Kirk’s. Where George Kirk is hero to his son, Sarek is anything but to Spock. That origin story (what little there was) seemed pretty much perfect. But in my version without a vengeful Nero around, obviously we would still have his Mother and Vulcan too, to fit into a traditional prequel movie… I’d have preferred to connect the dots in the Prime Timeline and just not bothered explaining inconsistencies in the updated designs.

The film opens with Kirk as a small child taken to Starfleet’s Construction Yards and Experimental Starship Complex. Simulated warp tests are being run on a primitive looking U.S.S. Constitution, housed in an enormous hangar. The youngster somehow manages to be separated from his father, who is conducting a VIP tour and almost has an accident. Fleet Captain Robert April notices the kid in over his head and manages to step in, keeping the young Kirk from serious harm.

George Kirk is a scientist working on the Constitution Class program. He’s close friends with April. Scenes of family life are mixed with the Enterprise beginning to take shape. James has a very close relationship with his Dad. He owns a futuristic telescope and they spend time together watching the night sky, talk about the history of space exploration.

The years pass, 20 minutes into the film and Kirk is now a teenager, he’s lost some of his cutesy enthusiasm and is as you’d expect – rebellious and a troublemaker. George has been transferred to the Engineering team supervising test-runs aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise. He invites his son along to the Christening Ceremony and there are all sorts of dignitaries attending, including one Jonathan Archer – famed Starfleet pioneer and former Federation President, there to see the NX-01’s namesake depart.

A catastrophic disaster happens a few hours out from space dock and George Kirk is trapped below decks, with his son powerless to help. Yet in the scenes which follow, despite being left physically disabled, his father continues to enthuse about space exploration. Even frail and beyond medical help, he urges his wayward son not to abandon his childhood dream to follow in his footsteps, to go out and explore. This leads James Kirk to straighten up and fly right. He’s got a purpose and signs up for Starfleet Academy.

The first major event in the movie was a set back which results in Robert April’s Captaincy of the Enterprise going down in history as a failure. He Lessons are learned enough for when Christopher Pike is appointed Captain 5 years later and the ship is successfully re-launched. An embittered April, found negligent and his career in ruins becomes the movie’s villain, with enough motivation to turn against Starfleet. He falls in with some bad company, having been broken out of prison by Andorian pirates.

Meanwhile the film reaches scenes of Kirk meeting McCoy and Spock at the Academy, with more time is devoted to the Kobayashi Maru and how he beat the “No-win scenario”. The Enterprise is currently between 5 year missions with Spock and Pike stationed there, with the vessel used for training cadets. Among the cadets putting in cameos would be Uhura and Sulu. Scotty is already the ship’s engineer. There’s no Chekov, who I wouldn’t introduce until a sequel or two down the line.

The classes split and go there separate ways. Kirk excels in his studies, promoted to Lieutenant and sent to serve aboard the Farragut… despite hoping for the ship his father served on.

April and his band of Andorians have been busy trading classified secrets to the highest bidder during the ensuing years… including at one point, Starfleet warp technology to a race who appear to be Vulcan. This briefly sets up a use of Romulans in another film.

The plot would climax with April and the Andorians confronted by two starships working together – Farragut (under Kirk, when the original skipper gets killed), Enterprise (under Pike, who similarly gets injured, leaving Spock as acting Captain).

30-year old Kirk’s valour and tactics are so amazing; when Pike recovers he accepts a promotion to head up Starfleet Academy and recommends Kirk for Enterprise Captain.

159. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

156: “I still don’t think Trek ‘deserved’ to be remade—as if that’s some kind of honor now!”

I do, not because it’s an honor, but because Star Trek never achieved the sort of scope consistent with its setting. New Star Trek doesn’t erase the old, not can it REplace it since TOS had the actors of the original series. But what it can do is to go bigger with a bigger budget instead of leaving things to the imagination from verbal references the way TOS was forced to do.

“A new ship with new characters would have been more refreshing.”

How so? All of the spawn ST series were variations of the TOS theme, but I found none of the characters as interesting or lovable. Why is it preferable to degrade the series by making less and less interesting versions of the original rather than sticking with the original?

Why try to outperform Superman by creating a new character called Superduperman?

When Nimoy says they caught lightning in a bottle in the 60’s, I think he’s absolutely correct.

Bottom line, no matter what else happens?

“We’ll always have Paris.”

160. Christopher Roberts - March 26, 2011

94. Well, you did ask! ;)

I foresaw a trilogy of prequel films, loose where production values were concerned – TOS was made in the 60’s afterall, but fairly consistent with each characters backstory. In other words, a prequel not a reboot.

First film spanning as many years as ST09 did, taking in gaps where Kirk didn’t go straight to the Enterprise from the academy and successive ones setting up the reasons behind a five-year mission of exploration, finally ending before “Where No Man…” Some creative licence used to place that maybe two years into the voyage.

161. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

I’ve thought about Bob’s challenge before he ever made it, and I think you either do what he did to respect canon, or else you just cleave canon into bits and pieces you will duplicate while ignoring everything else, sort of what it sounds like Zack Snyder intends on doing for Superman, i.e., he’s going to pretend that no Superman movie ever existed and start fresh.

Zack’s idea is the most obvious solution and probably what I myself would have chosen had I been in charge.

But then we wouldn’t have gotten Bob’s wonderful solution which was in perfect keeping with the sort of big ideas Star Trek was known for.

You can view it as a gift or an affliction, but Bob caused a pole shift in Star Trek, and it really needed that reorientation to renew the franchise. It was stagnant, and then dead.

And seeing how jazzed Bob is about the sequel story while also observing how open to opinion he is makes me optimistic that the sequel is going to be very good, according even to the dissenter’s tastes.

162. boborci - March 26, 2011

156. You misunderstood me. Was not commenting on material being rebooted for the times, was responding to other points. My fault for not being clear.

163. Christopher Roberts - March 26, 2011

Bob Orci – I don’t want you thinking this a snub to you and those writing the film, nothing could be further from the truth. I caved in and went to see ST09, to see what the future held. Your posts (along with few others) come across as aggressively defensive of any other view point than needing a new universe. I’m bound to attract a certain amount of attacks here, but relatively straight-forward is really what I thought would happen, the moment I saw that TOS-evocative teaser poster back in 2006.

164. Christopher Roberts - March 26, 2011

163. EDIT – but relatively straight-forward prequel is really what I thought would happen, the moment I saw that TOS-evocative teaser poster back in 2006.

165. Phil - March 26, 2011

158. Christopher Roberts – March 26, 2011

Give it to James Cawley. He dosen’t have to worry about attracting an audience.

166. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

153

“The timeline repairing itself’ would have went against the parallel universe or the parallel universe trying to align itself with the prime universe.

Saying a meeting that seems like a contrivance and saying that it is destiny is a very tricky thing to do in writing. If done badly it’s a sign of lazy story writing.

It works better for me in fantasy rather than SF.

To me the coincidences of the meetings in the new film are necessary to move the plot along but it really does ask the viewer to suspend disbelief at how convenient everything falls into place in the new movie.

Just lazy beats in an otherwise solid film.

167. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

You know what? Bob took a risk by not going the obvious and easy route. And that too is in keeping with Star Trek.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toG6aSQFF7Y&feature=related

168. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

Still has never been explained how the Enterprise’s mission is able to start 6 years earlier in this alternate universe than it did in the prime universe.

Just saying

169. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

168. captain_neill – March 26, 2011
Still has never been explained how the Enterprise’s mission is able to start 6 years earlier in this alternate universe than it did in the prime universe.

um — it’s in an “alternate” timeline

just saying

170. Dee - lvs moon' surface - March 26, 2011

I ‘m happy now…… boborci is not ignoring me….. yes he told me that!….

Regarding the alternate universe in Star Trek…. well, I like Star Trek…. I UNDERSTAND the purpose …. I enjoy watching…

My only complaint… There is a VERY LONG time between the sequels! ….. OK now I’ve bitched! …. LOL

:-) :-)

171. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

154. Tom

lol – Your right about: “Kirk Prime ( shut him up) and Spock Prime(beg him back).”

haha .. But Shatner did say he would be a “better” Kirk now than before. I say GO FOR IT!

172. Christopher Roberts - March 26, 2011

165. Phil – “Give it to James Cawley. He doesn’t have to worry about attracting an audience.”

Nah, I’m sure he has ideas of own. Truth be told, the future of Star Trek is never going to come from a fan’s effort, no matter how much passion and cast members they manage to rope into such a production.

Also I’m no purist, to the extent the 23rd Century can only ever be defined by some 60’s plywood sets (and one cast, four of which are sadly no longer with us).

173. boborci - March 26, 2011

163. Fair enough. And, actually, that is where Alex and I started, creatively. Much of what you saw in the movie was conceived when we were thinking the movie had to be within linear canon.

174. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

Maybe I have been too unkind to Bob Orci because there were some story points in the last movie that, as a Trekkie, I was not happy with.

I was against my fav show being “dumbed down” for the mainstream. At the same I understand why the new direction was taken.

But I guess I am always going to prefer the prime universe, but that is because that is MY Star Trek, the one I grew up with.

But I like the new movie and I like ALL of Trek.

Bob, you are a braver man than I. I understand if you have been ignoring me but I hope you don’t hate me because I didn’t think that your movie was my all time fav Trek. I still enjoyed it.

175. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

173

Were the early drafts in the prime universe?

176. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

173

I guess the main difficulty is writing something to pease both the fans and the mainstream.

How difficult is this balance for you?

177. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

In addition to my message in 174 I just wanted to apologise if I did seem unkind in the past.

It’s just I love Star Trek so much and it feels weird when its geared more towards a different audience who prob does not appreciate what Trek means, unlike us fans.

178. boborci - March 26, 2011

Captan neill

Stop it! I have not ignored you. Have traded opinions with you before, you drama Queen ;)

179. Christopher Roberts - March 26, 2011

With an alternative universe set up, I’m obviously going to see what happens next. You don’t spend most of your life obsessing over something, to abandon it. I only hope the writers use that ‘free-from-future canon’ agenda to the fullest, pushing for further distinctions between the Prime and Nero universes… as much as Vulcan’s destruction caused me much wailing and gnashing of teeth. It’s shouldn’t be just an excuse to remake TOS storylines that have been done before – simply because that crew is now in place. It should still be shook up and unpredictable. Or else they should have just written a film that was closer to being 100% prequel…

180. P Technobabble - March 26, 2011

It’s mind-numbing that some Trek fans appear to be amongst the most nit-pickiest human beings on the planet, hm?

Star Trek has been through so many changes since 1966, why should it stop now?

181. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

174 through 178

Ba HA HA HA – This thread rocks!

182. grover s - March 26, 2011

166. “… is a very tricky thing to do in writing”

So let it be tricky. This is the big time; I’m sure they’re up to it. :-)

Remember Spock suggesting “time is like a river” in COTEF? They didn’t dwell on it, and it wasn’t stated as definitely true, but it acknowledged the plot-crucial coincidence in a way that gave credit to the characters (and audience) for being smart enough to notice it.

183. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

178

Okay. As a writer myself I was wanting to get an understanding of how you balance what the fans want and what would make the mainstream audience happy.

You never answered that, but as a writer I would like to know how you work to balance them out.

If I was writing for Trek my love for it would make me write it for the fans rather than the mainstream.

184. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

182

That line about time travel is something constant in other time travel stories.

A lot of stories I watch have coincidences, guess Kirk happening to run into save cave as Spock was in was an big whopping one.

185. captain_neill - March 26, 2011

180

Doctor Who fans are as well.

A lot did not like what Russell T Davies. I still liked the show but Russell T. Davies did a lot of things that as a Doctor Who fan I was not happy with. He almost destroyed The Tenth Doctor’s character in his final story and got a little too self indulgent with his final script.

Doctor Who has improved under Steven Moffett who now runs Doctor Who. Moffett is a better writer.

But I guess we can criticise the directions or stories but as fans we stick with these shows.

186. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

I applaud Cawley’s effort but Cawley as Kirk , for me, is like Steve Buscemi as Indiana Jones. It is an obstacle.

187. Jonny - March 26, 2011

158. That movie I would have paid to see. Beats all the convenient timing and coincidences set up in this one. Face it… this Kirk’s a douche.

188. boborci - March 26, 2011

183.

It is always tricky to analyze yourself, but I would say that the balance comes from my genuine feeling that I am a fan, and that, as a result, if I feel something should change despite it being a fan favorite, it is maybe ok.

If I were not a genuine fan, I could not say that with conviction.

189. Jonny - March 26, 2011

186… HAH I agree whole heartedly! I applaud Cawley for the effort, but he can’t see past his own ego for acting. If I were making it on the level that he does, and would have put serious effort into casting the best choice, and failing that, get a haircut.

190. boborci - March 26, 2011

175.

No. Did not sign on this until we had alternate universe idea,

191. boborci - March 26, 2011

187.

Lol!

192. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

186 dmduncan & 188 Jonny:

You both are exactamundo! I watch those episodes with my wife as we go through our DVD/Blu-ray collection, (along with the comic books and now STO), but Cawley as Kirk is real peach.

Say…wasn’t Cawley in ST09? or not? (Don’t remember seeing him.)

193. Phil - March 26, 2011

187. Jonny – March 26, 2011

You, and about 27 others.

194. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

The coincidences give me “no tribble at all.” They happen. Click and scroll to “examples”:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity

195. Jonny - March 26, 2011

191. Yes he was, he was a bridge crewman… ironiclly with a haircut still looking un-Kirk like.

Gold shirt, 2nd from left.

http://img.trekmovie.com/images/merchandise/st09_eggs/jamescawley.jpg

196. Jonny - March 26, 2011

192. There are more than that, mate. There are quite a few people who went to Douche Trek feeling a bit robbed. It would have been a solid prime-line movie and kept with respected canon.

197. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

194. Jonny

Thanks a bunch!
Digging out the Blu-ray now.

198. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

Also from that wiki link:

“Even at Jung’s presentation of his work on synchronicity in 1951 at an Eranos lecture his ideas on synchronicity were still evolving. Following discussions with both Albert Einstein and Wolfgang Pauli Jung believed that there were parallels between synchronicity and aspects of relativity theory and quantum mechanics. Jung was transfixed by the idea that life was not a series of random events but rather an expression of a deeper order, which he and Pauli referred to as Unus mundus.”

Wolfgang Pauli certainly took it seriously.

199. Phil - March 26, 2011

195. Jonny – March 26, 2011

Well, then someone needs to go sell that script. If it’s the gold mine you think it is producers not named James Cawley will be falling all over themselves to get it on the screen, and make a fortune.

Good luck…

200. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

That’s the kind of Star Trek story you do when you don’t expect to do any more following that one.

201. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

158. Christopher Roberts

Thanks for taking the time to communicate your concept
… but … um… (coughs) boring

202. Captain Ransom - March 26, 2011

there is no ‘new timeline’. there is what star trek is, which is five tv series and ten movies, and there is what jj abrams created outside the existing star trek universe.

basically abrams just decided to do whatever he wanted, regardless of nearly 50 years of trek canon. most of the tv episodes were better than trek 09. abrams doesn’t get to redefine all of existing star trek just because he made this poorly done prequel. hopefully any future trek will ignore this movie completely.

203. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

That story is a Cawley epic. For Bob that would be like screaming Allahu Akbar and then exploding his career.

204. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

201. Captain Ransom: hmmmm, tell me, what were these episodes all about?

ENT-321 “E²”
ENT-418 “In a Mirror, Darkly (Part I)”
ENT-419 “In a Mirror, Darkly (Part 2)”
TOS-33 “Mirror, Mirror”
TNG-163 “Parallels”
DS9-223 “Crossover”
DS9-319 “Through the Looking Glass”
DS9-420 “Shattered Mirror”
DS9-522 “Children of Time”
DS9-608 “Resurrection”
DS9-712 “The Emperor’s New Cloak”

(sorry…wife has dinner ready and I’m not finishing this list atm. I at least wanted to add the VOY episode where Harry Kim dies and is replaced by another from an alternate universe.)

Just some things to chew on.

205. RobertZ - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday Leonard Nimoy!!!

Continued health to you and your family.

Thank You for your artistry and humanity.

206. Phil - March 26, 2011

@202….you know, they could use Bob Segers “Against the Wind” for background music. Just have him singing “as the years rolled slowly past” on a continuous loop for the 20 or so hours this movie would run.

207. Tom1701 - March 26, 2011

Happy Birthday Mr Nimoy!!
A class act all the way!

208. Phil - March 26, 2011

@201. Trek violated canon in its entire 50 year run. For all the complaining no one has really ever described what the unpardonable sin was?

209. Red Dead Ryan - March 26, 2011

207.
…….

“Trek violated canon in its entire 50 year run.”

45 years. Unless there’s five years of previously unseen Trek episodes sitting in a closet somewhere. :-)

210. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

I don’t give a damn if it turns out the reason the engine room looks like a brewery is because warp engines use BEER as fuel. I want real characters and a great story.

211. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

208: “45 years. Unless there’s five years of previously unseen Trek episodes sitting in a closet somewhere. :-)”

Oh wouldn’t that be badass?

212. Vultan - March 26, 2011

Kind of like that extra footage of 2001: ASO that was discovered in a salt mine vault recently—I want to see it!

213. Vultan - March 26, 2011

I almost wish Roddenberry had withheld an episode back in the ’60s so we could have a “lost episode.”

Almost.

214. Red Dead Ryan - March 26, 2011

210.
…….

I’ve always wondered if there might be a few “lost” episodes of TOS lying around somewhere. Maybe some unfinished ones. A few that didn’t air because of cancellation. SOMETHING. I know both “The Cage” and an alternate version of “Where No Man Has Gone Before” had been held back for a long time. Oh well. One can dream, I guess!

215. Michael Hall - March 26, 2011

“You know what? Bob took a risk by not going the obvious and easy route. And that too is in keeping with Star Trek.”

dmduncan, thanks for the link to a scene which represents (for all that it takes place in a fairly middling episode) the core essence of what Star Trek at its best, over the last fifty years, has been all about. Unfortunately, for some of us that passion for exploration, for increasing the boundaries of knowledge and the sense of wonder and awe that set so many of that generation on career paths in science, is sorely missing in Trek ’09. It’s a well-made popcorn film with great production values, a likeable and attractive cast, a few decent character scenes–and little else of substance or worth to recommend it.

216. Greg2600 - March 26, 2011

I have to agree with Captain Ransom on one thing. The Star Trek mythos existed how it did because the continuity was kept in line. Sure little things here and there overlapped, or were overwritten. Big deal. This film ended all that continuity, it’s over, done, bye bye. Not saying that’s the worst thing in the world, but I just feel like it’s over. Whatever happens now, it’s some other Star Trek, it’s not what it was. That was some other journey, some other book. I’ve personally put way too much time, and brain, into the old stories, I just don’t have the interest in redoing them. You’ve got fans lathering over a remake of Space Seed, or something with the Klingons. Well, I’ve seen all that already, so no thanks. Personally, I almost wish the characters’ names weren’t Spock, Kirk, McCoy, etc. I’d enjoy it more. I like all the actors they hired, they’re terrific. Probably the only saving grace so far.

217. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

215. Greg2600:

Please explain how ST09 “ended all that continuity”.

Not sure if you play Star Trek Online, (STO), but it is an easy example that shows how there is no change to the “continuity”.
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/88

In STO, Romulas has been destroyed and I just communicated with Naomi Wildman, (she is now the commanding officer on Starbase K-7), about her childhood on Voyager and the days when the Delta Flyer was first developed.

Suppose there is a movie or new television series set in the year 2388, just after the destruction of Romulas; How does ST09 make that a problem with “continuity”?

jeeeeeze, If Leonard Nimoy gets it, why can’t you? (apologies for that)

218. VZX - March 26, 2011

123. Phil – March 26, 2011
117. VZX – March 26, 2011

ummm…isn’t that what they did?

I meant in the prime universe.

219. TrekkieJan - March 26, 2011

My problem, Mr. Orci, is that other Star Trek writers built. You tore down. You destroyed an iconic planet and an iconic character for a few seconds of cheao angst and to further a romantic subplot that made no sense and demoted another iconic character, Uhura, to “girlfriend.”
And I am a hardcore Trekkie – watched it from the very first broadcast. I pushed ST09 onto other reluctant Trekkies because I was enjoying Lost. Ultimately, that was a big disappointment too and I now cringe to think how many times I told people you guys were going to pull something fantastic off with either project.

220. Phaser Guy - March 26, 2011

Wow, are we still whining about Trek 09 on this site, and not Nemesis?

221. VZX - March 26, 2011

132. boborci – March 26, 2011
128. Look it up. SN can threaten 10,000 light years. Memory alpha says federation stretches 10,000 light years. Therefore, SN threatens known universe.

Huh. It’s funny, I actually showed that clip of the movie in my astrophysics class as an intro to supernovae as an example of “bad science in movies.” I then segued from that to how a supernova could actually affect a planet in another system.

I was at least glad that you used such terms and imagery.

222. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

214. Michael Hall – March 26, 2011

I can’t evaluate Star Trek on the basis of any single episode. Frequently, as you noted, mediocre episodes had moments of real excellence, like that Shatner scene which showcases Shatner’s talent as an actor, and Kirk’s fantastic-ness as a character.

And I can’t evaluate ST.09 all by itself either. Certainly you can do that, especially if ST.09 constitutes your entire experience of the franchise.

But if, like me, you know more about its history then it can also fit into it as a missing piece to a puzzle. In that type of experience, which is mine, it has connections to TOS that give it a depth that it would not have on its own; for example, by understanding the contrast between the two Kirks not only do I see ST.09 as an EPISODE in a long series of episodes, but it is one that illuminates and deepens Kirk’s character by showing him in a way that is consistent with the changes between the two universes but which is also different than we have ever seen him before. The same is also true of Spock and his youthful struggle with emotion. It would be absurd to portray these characters as exactly the same throughout their lives. That’s not reality.

Now, they could have done what Zack Snyder is doing with Superman and disconnected Star Trek from its televised history. And had they done that, even if it were great they would have lost the depth that 79 episodes of TOS provided. But by cleverly fitting it into canon, not only can TOS act as a hidden contrast for we fans who know something that the other viewers do not, but it has the advantage of functioning as a rebirth of and new chapter in that long prior saga, so it doesn’t NEED to function all by itself, though as a summer popcorn movie it certainly DID do that.

And that’s part of the brilliance of Bob’s solution. It’s very Aikido-like, merging with the moving mass of canon and using it, rather than standing against it or ignoring it. And as a brilliant opening chapter, an origins story, it doesn’t need to be brilliant as a one shot movie like Apocalypse Now, which is a very different sort of movie.

ST.09 was brilliant as an opening that draws on a larger body of extant TOS material to give itself depth rather than to enclose all of its parts within the boundaries of the single movie it was.

It was, in other words, much more than the sum of its parts.

223. boborci - March 26, 2011

221. Leaving the term “supernova” was for you! Truly, thought of calling it something else, but figured it would be better to have a teachable term!

224. VZX - March 26, 2011

219: I think that Orci welcomed the arguments. The floodgates then opened.

But, I could easily whine about Nemesis. It was an abomination.

225. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

218. TrekkieJan:

? Do you consider the destruction of Romulas to be unacceptible ? (Romulas is the only planet destroyed in the original timeline.)

? What was Uhura to Scotty in ST-V ?

? How is it that Uhura being a “girlfriend” means that she is “demoted” ?

? Was Spock considered to be “demoted” by expressing emotions regarding Chapel and others in TOS-4 “The Naked Time” ?

226. VZX - March 26, 2011

222: Cool, thanks for giving all physics teachers a solid like that.

Now, could you shoe-horn the Hertzsprung-Russel Diagram in the next movie?

227. boborci - March 26, 2011

219. I remember the butterflies in my stomach when I looked Nimoy in the eye and pitched him the destruction of Vulcan. He said, “yes.” If Mr. Spock can handle it, so can you.

Will respectfully disagree that the decision was about a few seconds of cheap angst. Hardly. As a fan, I knew exactly what it meant.

FYI, I had nothing to do with Lost.

228. ensign joe - March 26, 2011

wow this talkback sounds like a stuck elevator with a Terran, Romulan, Ferengi, and a Klingon inside .. all on the way to a birthday party..

229. ensign joe - March 26, 2011

hows that for a pitch ;)

230. Allenburch - March 26, 2011

227. ensign joe:

Don’t forget the Vulcan ——

231. ensign joe - March 26, 2011

Indeed sir!

232. dmduncan - March 26, 2011

Can’t pitch the sequel, but I can pitch the third movie!

233. Michael Hall - March 26, 2011

dmduncan–

Fine, thoughtful response to my snarky post. As always. :-)

“Leaving the term “supernova” was for you! Truly, thought of calling it something else, but figured it would be better to have a teachable term!”

Teachability aside, another term might have been preferable, since the destructive effects of a supernova over a span of 10,000 light years would take, well, up to 10,000 years to be felt. Not exactly the sort of problem that demands a two-hour solution. Similarly, a “promotion” from black-sheep cadet to flagship captain might also have been referred to as something else, since it was something no military organization has ever done, or would be likely to do.

234. Anthony Pascale - March 26, 2011

I have often thought about if a prequel could be made within the canon of the prime timeline. The Star Wars prequels certainly showed us that this can be difficult (midichlorians?!). One thing that I think becomes a serious problem before you even talk about story is production design. We all love the original sets and designs, but that was not going to work in a summer tentpole movie. Even Roddenberry changed everything for his movie in the 70s. And once you change the look of the ship, etc – then you have violated canon, before you even touch a single story element. By setting up the alt. timeline, all changes can be explained ‘within canon’

235. Anthony Pascale - March 26, 2011

by the way, I want to remind everyone to be civil to each other

236. Michael Hall - March 26, 2011

Mr. Pascale–

Actually, with respect it doesn’t explain when the Kelvin and its technology don’t look like they predate “The Cage,” let alone why the Enterprise and the universe of the film, even to the look of warp drive, appear so different from TOS and the other incarnations of Trek. If the purpose of hitting the alternate universe reset button was to justify advances in technology of the real world productions, the reasoning behind it (Starfleet gets a leg up on future tech courtesy of the Narada) was flimsy at best. Far better, IMHO, to have approached to production design issue with imagination and respect for what had gone before, trusting our imaginations to paper over the differences.

237. ensign joe - March 26, 2011

“but that was not going to work in a summer tentpole movie”

I wonder how much of TOS would pass the “work in a summer tentpole movie” test..

Just sayin..

238. Anthony Pascale - March 26, 2011

The Kelvin was a generation before TOS so it is as justifiable as the NX-01 is and it is a natural evolution of the NX-01. So sometime after the Kelvin Starfleet had a big change in design philosophy. Or if you really cant get your head around that, then you can get all retcon-ish and say it was just one of many Starfleet style designs under consideration, but they eventually moved to the more colorful TOS style.

But using the Star Wars model of canon where if the goal was for this prequel to truly ‘fit’. and if the first film is to end with day 1 of the five year mission, then the actual Enterprise would have to be exact both inside and out, down to the jellybean buttons. And that is just not going to work.

239. SChaos1701 - March 26, 2011

Honestly, I think there are only still detractors here because they’re butthurt that the movie did so well.

Bob, keep it up. I can’t wait for the next one.

240. MC1 Doug - March 26, 2011

What??? No formal postings/articles about Leonard Nimoy’s birthday? Sacrilege!

241. The Picard Maneuver - March 26, 2011

I still say I would like to see the talosians in the next movie. I mean that is one image that is classic with sci fi, frail aliens with huge brains thus huge heads. Its a classic image (especially for layman’s)

242. grover s - March 26, 2011

Isn’t ST09 the first ever sequel, prequel and reboot all in one? Gotta give points for creativity and chutzpah there, right?

243. ensign joe - March 26, 2011

“trusting our imaginations to paper over the differences.”

That’s relative yo.. My imagination WAS able.. Plot was a stretch though :)

244. Picardo - March 26, 2011

Geez! Thank god Star Wars doesn’t have this kind of Drama!!!

245. MC1 Doug - March 26, 2011

#213: “I almost wish Roddenberry had withheld an episode back in the ’60s so we could have a “lost episode.””

In a way, there are a number of unfilmed scripts out there.

There is Roddenberry’s “The God Thing. There is the “Planet of Titans” script by Chris Bryant and Scott Allan. I believe even Harlan Ellison and Theodore Sturgeon pitched a script proposal as well. AND then there are a few unfilmed script proposals that were intended for Star Trek Phase II (the 1970s Paramount failed proposed re-launching of the franchise). Whether they would have been suitable for a film remains to be seen.

I would like to see/read the script treatise submitted by famed author Richard Bach (“Jonathan Livingston Seagull”).

246. Canon Schmanon - March 26, 2011

Bob Orci and Anthony, you guys have such patience for the Trektards. I admire that in both of you. WIth nothing at stake, I just can’t be as civil most of the time.

I too found Kirk’s giant promotion a little hard to believe, and the brewery in engineering was too recognizable as a construct from our own times. And the giant coincidence of Kirk being marooned in close proximity to Spock was quite hard to believe. Still, I loved the movie and am eager to see more.

247. MC1 Doug - March 26, 2011

AND, while not a Roddenberry script, there was the proposed “Romulan War (trilogy)” script treatment that was submitted just prior to the Bad Robot’s crew rendition of what we now know as “Star Trek 09.”

Paramount went with the script we now know, rejecting doing a movie with no characters belonging to any recognized version. Too bad. I would love to have seen a trilogy of films covering the traumatic Romulan War era.

That script was set in a post “ST: Enterprise” / pre-Kirk era. It was written by Erik Jendresen.

248. MC1 Doug - March 26, 2011

#247: cited from:

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Beginning

249. Jonny - March 27, 2011

248. again, a film I would have liked to explore… the hopes heard when this gfound to be an alternate timeline was the Spocks presence would have made every attempt to restore it.

…oh, and as far as “The galaxy’s greatest hero” being sent to deal with a catastrophic celestial event is as likely as sending Mother Teresa being sent to counter the Japanese tidal wave.

…at the very least, Spock should have had some shipmates, one or two more to lend credence to it; Nero would simply have disposed of them.

“Black Sheep” to Captain I still find very unlikely. I’d be curious to drop by Annapolis and see how many midshipmen made captain in the last 200 years.

250. Jonny - March 27, 2011

246. Canon Schmanon – March 26, 2011

“Bob Orci and Anthony, you guys have such patience for the Trektards. I admire that in both of you.”

…and that makes you what for being here with the rest of us “Trek-Tards”?

251. captain_neill - March 27, 2011

234

The altnerante universe allows me to enjoy the new movie as a separate entity from the rest of Star Trek because it is not canon with the rest of Trek, but at the same time the film can be part of the hostory of the legend that is Star Trek.

1966-2005 is one universe. 209 onwards will be new fun movies set in an alternate universe.

As I said above I am always going to prefer the prime universe but I can still enjoy this new universe as long as they stick to Gene’s ideals. It will lose itself if it is no longer Star Trek but only in name only.

252. captain_neill - March 27, 2011

209 -I meant 2009

253. Bill Peters - March 27, 2011

Bob, I am looking foward to the next Movie and looking foward to your take on More Trek. As for everyone else here, Thanks for your Opnions, I dissagree with those of you who don’t like the film but glad you were here for Bob Orci to explane himself, for me Lenard Nemoy saying he liked it is enough for me, and hey it even had the late Mrs. Roddenberry in ti.

254. Bill Peters - March 27, 2011

Also it is the same James T Kirk, Sure he was promoted faster but hey that is how it seems to work in the Real World Obama and Bush and JFK do Apply here and also he is the same Kirk that does what he needs to do to make sure the Federation and Earth Survive, I am sure we will see Things like the Prime Directive and other things we recognize from Old Trek in the Next Fil the first Film didn’t have time to Cover all the Bases.

255. Don S - March 27, 2011

128. Look it up. SN can threaten 10,000 light years. Memory alpha says federation stretches 10,000 light years. Therefore, SN threatens known universe.

Technically, the ‘known universe’ by that time also included the Gamma Quadrant and the Delta Quadrant, which obviously covers a much bigger region of the galaxy than just the 10,000 light years of the Federation.

Nitpicking aside……………

Bob Orci:

Since you’re here, I’d like to recommend a fantastic book to you. Maybe it’ll give you some further story ideas for the next two Star Trek movies, maybe not, but you’ll love reading it anyway: ‘The Eerie Silence’. It’s a non-fiction science book by Paul Davies, head of the SETI Post-Detection Task Group. Along with sprinting through subjects like evolution, the sheer size and age of the universe, and cutting-edge physics, he mainly discusses what kind of extraterrestrials may really be ‘out there’, especially civilizations which could be millions of years more advanced than us. His ideas consist of quite brilliant out-of-the-box thinking, and the startling suggestions he makes towards the end of the book are often mind-bending in scope. Star Trek is mentioned a couple of times too.

Amazon.com has a good summary of the book, so do check it out. Like I said, you’ll love it.

256. P Technobabble - March 27, 2011

In simple terms of science fiction, I see Trek09 as a perfectly legitimate continuation of the Star Trek mythology, using concepts that are perfectly legitimate in sci-fi and have plenty of basis in today’s science. And something like the destruction of Vulcan is just as plausible and acceptable as the potential destruction of Earth (hopefully that won’t be for millions or billions of years, but it could even be around the corner with 21st century-unenlightened Man running the show). To say that destroying Vulcan is off-limits is plain ole narrow-minded, unwilling to take risks. Good story-telling should put you in a place that is uncomfortable, not just giving you what you want.

SO WHAT if Star Trek is now about what happens in the alternate universe? How, precisely, does that ruin Star Trek for you (if you feel that way)? I think the world of science fiction is greater than the world of Star Trek. Trek doesn’t define sci-fi, but sci-fi does define Trek. Every “rule” of sci-fi is possible in the Trek universe. Trek09 didn’t invent any new rules in sci-fi. It simply turned our notions of what Star Trek is (or can be) upside-down… just as ordinary life can do for you.

As for what sort of prequel might have taken place in the prime universe… I don’t think it would have been very exciting if it were a matter of the young crew coming together, battle off some villain, and then have everything settle down to the usual. We’ve seen that plenty of times. By spinning the orientation of Trek into an altered universe, things are now unsettling, leaving us in unfamilar territory, boldly going, Now we don’t know what can happen — at all!

Don’t we all already have an idea of the history of the characters in the prime universe anyway? If the writers had written a story in the prime universe and it didn’t fit people’s notions about how that history went, they’d be chastised anyway for not sticking to canon. IMO, it was completely worth spinning us into new and unfamiliar territory where the usual history of Trek has been put aside.

257. Canon Man - March 27, 2011

i guess if BobOrci and Co had gone the Star Wars route and done a straight prequel maybe Nimoy would have had an opening cameo (maybe with Shat – if set pre Generations or TNG Spock with a holoKirk) reminising about the good ol days to a bunch of cadets…cut to young Kirk and Spock (as in the movie) but where Spocks upbringing wouldnt be any diff to how we saw it in the film (before going to Pikes Enterprise), Kirks would have been – so no trashing his uncles car, bar fight etc – instead wed have had Kodus, the Farragut, cloud killer, Finnegan, Gary Mitchell, Carol Marcus, Finney etc…..maybe some stuff wouldve been similar – KM test (obviously), maybe met Bones and Spock in a similar way etc…im sure Nero couldve been written as a Klingon villian not from the future for Kirk and Co to face etc….Pike couldve had a cameo when he meets Kirk at the end to hand over the Enterprise (sequel could show his accident) …Uniforms would’ve been Cage/Where No Man style (not that diff to TOS uniforms) same for phasers….Ent wouldve been TOS style design….

although wouldnt it have been a bit odd how everything would look epic and ultra futuristic – then by the end they all step onto a 60s bridge set?

probably wouldve been abit similar to what Harve Bennett wouldve done with his alternate Trek VI

I guess they could always do it as a graphic novel….

258. Jonny - March 27, 2011

254.

Bush, Obama and JFK weren’t “promoted to president for meritorious actions” Calling that a real world approach demonstrates that you have no clue how the real world functions! They were elected to office!

No one in any functional Navy now or otherwise governed by a hierarchy has ever been elected to a position of command. Ask any military officer if rank has ever been achieved due to ‘having the most popular policies’. In fact, tape it… I’d love to see the look on the officer’s face as you ask him.

This Starfleet is confusing enough with it’s muddled command structure and questionable protocols without wondering why someone with a track record like this kid went from Academy Cadet to Full-Rank-Line-Officer of Captain skipping 5 line ranks. That’s lazy storytelling, not exciting plot advancement.

259. Jonny - March 27, 2011

I’m all for suspension of disbelief, but you gotta switch your gray matter to the off position to buy some of these plot devices.

260. Jeyl - March 27, 2011

@238: “Enterprise would have to be exact both inside and out, down to the jellybean buttons. And that is just not going to work.”

Why not? It worked for Trials and Tribble-ations. And I would prefer jellybean buttons over a gawddang brewery/power plant. Do you really want to treat one of science fictions most iconic and recognizable ships with the same mindset as the Southern Sun from Space Mutiny?

261. Jonny - March 27, 2011

Y’know what tho? I will commend Bob Orci one thing. I have never before seen a writer so willing to engage his audience fans *or* detractors. I may not have cared for this Star Trek, and will consider it in as far as I consider the Mirror Universe. The highlight of this movie was and is only Simon Pegg… huge fan. So if anything, his character development would only serve to improve.

So no hard feelings, Bob – best of luck on the sequel. I personally won’t be in the line up at the theaters, but I wish you every success.

262. ensign joe - March 27, 2011

It’s pretty cool eh? Seen many trek alum here at trekmovie.. part of what makes it the bees knees.. very cool indeed

263. Jonny - March 27, 2011

@262. Seriously? Like who?

264. ensign joe - March 27, 2011

Mike Okuda for example..

265. Jonny - March 27, 2011

That’s awesome! I would love to get some of Mike Okuda’s thoughts and input. I’m an illustrator myself, and I would kill for a conversation with Doug Drexler or John Eaves.

266. Christopher Roberts - March 27, 2011

267. For those fond of nit-picking, aren’t there 3 Star Trek movies (Wrath of Khan/Search for Spock/Voyage Home) which are supposed to span 18 months, despite the fact you can’t fight the sort of discontinuites real-life throws in there.

Actually, make that 4 including Final Frontier. So long as the story is good enough, fans have a way of being distracted away from all the problems.

Going from the fifth movie, to the sixth one – The Undiscovered Country, isn’t amazing how quickly run down the glossy NCC-1701-A became. Not even the same scale inside either…

267. Christopher Roberts - March 27, 2011

I’d argue the same careless approach could’ve meshed a series of prequel films, with the series it’s supposed to be set before.

A film spanning 2233 to 2264 when Kirk takes over.

Several sequels set between 2264-66. Another in 2267 ending with the NCC-1701 in for repair, which fans could have assumed left the interiors looking the way they did in WNMHGB.

268. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

246. Canon Schmanon – March 26, 2011
“Bob Orci and Anthony, you guys have such patience for the Trektards. I admire that in both of you. WIth nothing at stake, I just can’t be as civil most of the time. I too found Kirk’s giant promotion a little hard to believe, and the brewery in engineering was too recognizable as a construct from our own times. And the giant coincidence of Kirk being marooned in close proximity to Spock was quite hard to believe. Still, I loved the movie and am eager to see more.”

The three (3) items you outlined seem to be the things that “mainstream viewers” also noticed and nitpicked on a little. As far as which items seemed to be worse, (worse being at the top of the list), as I sum up the comments of friends and family:

* Engine Room: The kids really enjoyed the engine room but most of the adults seemed to think that it was a little silly.

* Kirk Promotion to Captain: Most of my friends didn’t seem to care. True…in general…elite rewards and responsibility should be handed to those who have a proven track record that is usually accompanied by good old fashioned hard work. (Even my wife said that she would have liked seeing Kirk work a little more in the next movie before being promoted – Would a woman be promoted like this?) But, there are exceptions such as out of necessity, (field promotions), or when genuine talent emerges early in a persons career.

* Prime-Spock & Alt-Kirk Meeting: Most “mainstream” friends didn’t even blink an eye at this because they were all JAZZED at seeing Nimoy-Spock on the big screen … after about a 17 year gap! For me, “Countdown” made this incident less coincidental than the movie presents it. Oh…and by the way…coincidences DO happen.

269. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

251. captain_neill

Well spoken. We understand what you mean.

I myself like everything about Star Trek but my wife prefers DS9. There is only one episode out of all of them, (including TAS, OGAM, Phase-2), that we both absolutely refuse to rewatch: ENT-422 “These Are the Voyages…” (How stupid was that episode – eeeesh)

270. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

261. Jonny “no hard feelings, Bob – best of luck on the sequel. I personally won’t be in the line up at the theaters, but I wish you every success”

I bet $1000 that your not telling the whole truth here. I bet that you will see the next movie. You may not stand in line on opening night but I bet you will see the movie later…even if on DVD.

271. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

258: “No one in any functional Navy now or otherwise governed by a hierarchy has ever been elected to a position of command.”

Which doesn’t mean no military officer did not ever receive huge jump promotions. It’s called brevetting.

Ranald C. Mackenzie was brevetted up, down, and sideways during the Civil War and in once case brevetted from Captain to Brigadier General of the Regular Army.

That’s a jump over 3 ranks: Major, Lt. Colonel, and Colonel.

I’ve never heard of a JG Lieutenant in Star Trek, so I doubt the command structure is perfectly identical to today’s Naval command structure, so if everything else is the same, then going from Ensign to Captain is ALSO a skip over 3 ranks, just like Mackenzie. So there is your real world precedent.

And to be fair you have to break down Kirk’s promotion into TWO parts: Pike’s promotion of Kirk, and Starfleet’s promotion of Kirk.

Pike’s promotion of Kirk was totally legitimate given Pike’s own stated belief in leaping before you look. Pike had something of the same wild mustang in him that he saw in Kirk and which he felt Starfleet was lacking. So by him (Pike) doing the totally bold and unexpected thing of putting his faith in Kirk by promoting him to first officer, Pike also put Kirk within striking distance of the Captain’s chair. So when Kirk got rid of Spock he automatically became Captain.

That was your first promotion, and it happened automatically, because Pike made a wild, but consistent, decision to play Kirk. An wild as that decision was, it WAS Pike’s call to put Kirk so close to the center seat and within his power to do, and the logic of doing it was consistent with Pike’s own stated beliefs. It was NOT out of character for him to do so.

The SECOND promotion came at the end of the movie and was a permanent one made by Starfleet because Kirk proved his talent for command.

Now you can argue against the legitimacy of that second promotion, if you like, but I should point out that you would be projecting current era military values onto a future era whose military is ostensibly more evolved than ours is.

We don’t shoot or hang soldiers for desertion anymore either, so standards change and who is to say what they will be by Star Trek’s 23rd century except by to see what happens in the movies and shows that we get?

Bob CREATES canon, and I’d say we just saw a little bit of it in the military value system of ST.09.

So, you can’t say it’s unprecedented (Mackenzie), or illogical (Pike), or not canon (ST.09).

However, I WOULD love it if there was some dissatisfaction by careerists that Kirk got command, and I would like to see Kirk have to prove that he should KEEP the Enterprise against forces that are trying to remove him from it. I think his fast promo is a great opportunity to do something dramatic. In fact the story I have in mind revolves around Kirk proving himself beyond all doubts in jaw dropping fashion, with the help of a crew that puts their faith in him and is rewarded by helping to create a great leader and Captain.

272. Jonny - March 27, 2011

Co-incidence does indeed happen… like every five minutes in this movie.

…and speaking of the brewery, one minute it’s filled with personnel on the boarding scene, yet not a single person witnesses Kirk & Scotty’s beam in until dispatched by the bridge? Who the hell is monitoring the engine room?

“* Kirk Promotion to Captain: Most of my friends didn’t seem to care. True…in general…elite rewards and responsibility should be handed to those who have a proven track record that is usually accompanied by good old fashioned hard work.But, there are exceptions such as out of necessity, (field promotions), or when genuine talent emerges early in a persons career.”

With the possible exception of General Custer (and that turned out smashingly for him, didn’t it?) has there every been an instance where a military cadet accepted and was able to retain a field commission of a command level rank?

And for that matter what constitutes a commission in this Stafleet? Apparently a great deal of time passed between the distress call from Vulcan and the cadets boarding their vessels with full commission ranks… McCoy was plausible (minorly) already holding a certificate as a physician, but unlikely that he would made a Lt.Cmdr by the time they reached Enterprise.

It’s like giving Wesley Crusher command of the Enterprise for the incident in “The First Duty”.

273. Jonny - March 27, 2011

270. Would you like an address to send the check to? Believe me… I went with a group of friends that night,expectations high when it came out and even we couldn’t believe what an awful movie it was.

I’d still like a refund.

274. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

In effect, Pike brevetted Kirk to First Officer (only a skip over 2 ranks if First Officer is Lt. Commander) in an emergency situation, and after the events of the film, Starfleet chose to keep Kirk in the position of Captain that he proved himself so well in.

275. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

271. Jonny “With the possible exception of General Custer (and that turned out smashingly for him, didn’t it?) has there every been an instance where a military cadet accepted and was able to retain a field commission of a command level rank?”

LMAO – I can’t think of any outstanding ones either – just saying it’s possible is all. For my wife and I, the fast promotion to Captain was the only bad part of the movie. We definitely want to see Kirk struggle more as he finds his legs at being an outstanding leader.

276. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

272: “With the possible exception of General Custer (and that turned out smashingly for him, didn’t it?) has there every been an instance where a military cadet accepted and was able to retain a field commission of a command level rank?”

Yeah but you can’t argue precisely from history because the future will be filled with new occurrences and broken old records. Let’s say that before Ranald C. Mackenzie there was no Ranald C. Mackenzie (let’s just assume his example set those precedents). Then why can’t we say the same of Kirk? Before James T. Kirk there was no James T. Kirk. His example set precedents and/or broke previous old records.

277. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

272. Jonny “Would you like an address to send the check to?”

We’ll keep talking, deo volente

278. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

And once you decide you don’t like something, the rest, with rare exception, is history. Then its just a game of hammering and hammering away finding that every little chip is despicable, hateful, until it becomes the worst piece of garbage the universe in its long evolution from the big bang ever produced.

Problem is you can do that with everything if you are so inclined including every episode of TOS.

279. Jonny - March 27, 2011

Kirk couldn’t have made Captain faster than if he had a warp core in his tail pipe… I would have bought “Probationary Rank”, but Starfleet’s competence as a defense organization seriously needs to be questioned if they’re promoting kids with black marks that glaring. I’d sure be checking to see what color my uniform was until my transfer off came thru…

280. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

279. Jonny – March 27, 2011

YMMV. That’s not my view. Ranald C. Mackenzie was a real person who was brevetted over 3 ranks, from Captain to Brigadier General.

I expect that in a more enlightened society, even stranger things, by today’s standards, could happen. In fact, I would question how enlightened they really were if they did things exactly the way we do them today, so using the argument from today’s standards is not much of an argument to me. We don’t have warp engines, transporters, tractor beams, phasers, Vulcans, or the Prime Directive either.

281. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

276. dmduncan “And once you decide you don’t like something, the rest, with rare exception, is history. Then its just a game of hammering and hammering away finding that every little chip is despicable, hateful, until it becomes the worst piece of garbage the universe in its long evolution from the big bang ever produced.”

I am also amazed at how people go down that road so often. I always thought that Star Trek fans were more “glass is full” kinda people…and perhaps (chuckling) most of them are.

Maybe it’s more like the “tailgater effect”. Most drivers DO NOT tailgate but we may tend to think that most do because tailgaters, (especailly if they’re driving an 18-wheeler), stand out more in our minds.

282. Jonny - March 27, 2011

269… “…Voyages” was a TNG episode, and even Frakes said “It stinks”. DS9 fan here too; it felt more grounded in ‘reality’.

283. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

279. Jonny “DS9 fan here too; it felt more grounded in ‘reality’.”

Guaranteed emotions out of my wife every time she watches the following episodes:

* Cries: DS9-403 “The Visitor”; DS9-725&726 “What You Leave Behind”

* Laughs: DS9-303 “The House of Quark”, DS9-408 “Little Green Men”, DS9-610 “The Magnificent Ferengi”

* Angry: DS9-120 “In the Hands of the Prophets”, DS9-709 “Covenant”

* Sad & Angry: DS9-313 “Life Support”

* Chills Down Her Spine: DS9-613 “Far Beyond the Stars”, DS9-621 “The Reckoning”

I should also throw in a “Sigh” every time she sees the opener of ST09.

284. Jonny - March 27, 2011

“Farthest Star” was onen of my favorites too… “Duet” was the best Trek drama I’ve ever seen, Thin allegory, but powerful.

285. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

227. boborci “As a fan, I knew exactly what it meant.”

Great to see that you can maintain your fandom while being directly involved in such a project. Here’s to keeping the stress-buggers away!

286. Allenburch - March 27, 2011

235. Anthony Pascale “by the way, I want to remind everyone to be civil to each other”

Thanks for your balance and diligent work.

287. Christopher Roberts - March 27, 2011

238. Anthony Pascale – – – “The Kelvin was a generation before TOS so it is as justifiable as the NX-01 is and it is a natural evolution of the NX-01. So sometime after the Kelvin Starfleet had a big change in design philosophy. Or if you really cant get your head around that, then you can get all retcon-ish and say it was just one of many Starfleet style designs under consideration, but they eventually moved to the more colorful TOS style.”

I’m a huge fan of ENT (a rarity I know) and I think what many fans didn’t realise and give a chance to appreciate, was how many TOS touches there were in the show. Mike Okuda’s graphics on the bridge and in Sickbay. Herman Zimmerman’s set design. Doug Drexler’s NX-01. I looked at that and saw all the foreshadowing I needed to see. The Kelvin sets disregarded some of that and yet, accepted other parts. The colour scheme was greyish and submarine like in places to match. The Engineering, below decks sets like super-sized versions of the NX-01 ones.

– – – – – “But using the Star Wars model of canon where if the goal was for this prequel to truly ‘fit’. and if the first film is to end with day 1 of the five year mission, then the actual Enterprise would have to be exact both inside and out, down to the jellybean buttons. And that is just not going to work.”

Not exactly. No where in TOS is it made explict how far into the 5-year mission the series was at the beginning. Kirk seems very experienced and respected in “Where No Man Has Gone Before”. Imagine that you’re watching half way through at that point for instance.

The rest is just a question of shrugging and telling the hardcore to use their imagination. Nit picking was envitable, no matter which universe you want to set a Star Trek movie in. Fans are still comparing the alternate one with what they’re used to.

288. Christopher Roberts - March 27, 2011

268. I take back the word “careless” and switch it for “carefree”.

289. Christopher Roberts - March 27, 2011

284. (continued) Careless sounds disrespectful and like they didn’t care about obvious changes between films that flow from one to the other. Different directors brought their own style… so Nick Meyer wanted distressed and submarines-in-space, Nimoy inherited that. Redressing the TMP bridge to be white at the end of The Voyage Home. Shatner approved gleaming touch screens and Nick Meyer shifted the look backwards slightly from that again.

All within a relatively short space of time. Plenty of room for scope in different Enterprise bridges in between the Pilots really, when you take into account how consistent the original movies were.

290. Christopher Roberts - March 27, 2011

I’m not sure what’s going on here. But one of my posts has switched places – from 267. to 287. Just a glitch, I guess.

It now looks like the second part of my post came before the first.

291. Jonny - March 27, 2011

Quite right. This one appears to be a Mac product.

292. Christopher Roberts - March 27, 2011

Maybe it’s a prequel thing… LOL!

293. keachick - March 27, 2011

“Kirks would have been – so no trashing his uncles car, bar fight etc –”

How do we know that the young Kirk in the prime timeline did not trash his uncle’s car, be part of a bar fight or whatever? Actually there were only two short scenes showing Kirk before he entered Starfleet, one of them when he was about 11 or 12 years old. Suddenly that makes him a black sheep, an undisciplined tool, does it? This is not evidence.

The fact is that Kirk did complete his Academy training in three years, not four, and no matter how favoured he might have been by Pike, if he had been such an undisciplined tool as some people seem to think he was, then he would have been booted out. Note that the people supervising the Kobiyashi Maru test were surprised that Kirk was not taking the test seriously on that occasion. Remember that Kirk had already done the test twice before.

Your complaints made about Kirk are not logical.

While discipline is being mentioned, only one other poster including me, seems to have called out the uniformed Starfleet cadets’ behaviour in the bar. As far as I could see, they seemed to want to deliberately pick a fight with this “townie” and “farmboy” (both said in a denigrating manner) Kirk, because he talked to one of “their” women, even though she said she was fine. Where was their discipline – their manners or respect for the local population?

Kirk was not a cadet at the time. He was simply a resident visiting his local “watering hole” as he had every right to do. I can’t remember seeing any signs on the bar saying “Starfleet Members Only Bar”. Bob?

Kirk inspired by JFK? I thought it was Horatio Hornblower. Then again, when I was young, I thought he was the 23rd century sort of equivalent to Captain James COOK, a real person, (naval) explorer who discovered NZ properly, proved the existence of the Antarctic continent and sailed further than any other explorer of his time or pretty much since… I think that Cook moved quickly up through the ranks as he was pretty bright as well. You do not hold back “genius level” people with aptitude simply because of some protocol. That is plain DUMB.

Anyway, this Kirk will (no doubt) yet again have to prove that he is worthy of command in the sequel, as well as having to learn how to cope with any griping, jealousy, envy, nasty backbiting etc. I would say, an unfortunate inevitability even in the more enlightened 23rd century. People are slow to change…

294. Jonny - March 27, 2011

Fascist dictator he may be, but he knows what he likes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9i9N-Ez5Y8&playnext=1&list=PLDE7A2B03B8BCD04C

295. keachick - March 27, 2011

Most of what people consider to be plot holes in Star Trek 09 are not actually plot holes at all.

For example, we do not NEED to know what Nero had been doing for 25 years. All that we needed to know was that Nero wanted to capture Spock and the Jellyfish (and all that red matter) and that is what Nero did. The movie explains why he wanted Spock and the red matter.

The fact that prime Spock and Kirk just happen to meet in an ice cave is not a plot hole. It is a very happy coincidence. It may stretch some people’s credulity but it is not a plot hole…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole

296. Jonny - March 27, 2011

From Orci’s cheerleading squad are you? (Kidding)

297. boborci - March 27, 2011

and i would argue it is not that much of a cojncidence that Kirk and Spock met in the cave. they were both put on this moon precisely because of its proximity to Vulcan. Nero put Spock there because it was close to Vulcan. Spock put Kirk there because it was close to Vulcan.

once on the surface, both were making their way to the Starfleet outpost. so whats the problem?

298. Jonny - March 27, 2011

…Mornin’, Bob… I was about to move onto my project I’ve been putting off because this threads been so entertaining.

It’s not so much because they were put on the same … moon? Did you specify moon before? I don’t recall. It’s the sheer odds of Kirk ending up in an escape pod a mere couple of kms from Prime Spock is stretching odds quite a bit.

299. boborci - March 27, 2011

298.

not really, because as i said, kirk was put there by Spock in purposeful close proximity to outpost.

meanwhile, wherever Spock was, he was making his way to the outpost. had they not met in the cave, they wouldve just met at the outpost.

300. Jonny - March 27, 2011

See, *that* the audience coulda bought, way better than wild coincidence it appears to be… say, had Spock arrived first, have Kirk enter and give his story to Scotty (huge kudos for Simon Pegg, btw) and have Scotty reply with something like “…this guys story was way better”, pulls back the hood to reveal Spock.

301. Jonny - March 27, 2011

300… lolz… get yer victories wherever you can find ‘em.

302. boborci - March 27, 2011

301

audience did buy it. however, had we done “that,” it wouldnt change the odds, whatever those might be.

303. Jonny - March 27, 2011

302 the explanation would have been more plausible, at least in my opinion for what its worth…

…this has indeed been fun, but I have a page to get off today. Really though, I’m honestly impressed that you take the time to engage your audience. Says scads about your character.

304. Trekprincess - March 27, 2011

Boborci I must be in the small minority of fans that had absolutely no issues with the film and loved everything about it so are you nearly done with writing the script:)

305. keachick - March 27, 2011

Bob!, please tell *JJ Abrams – no more totally biologically deranged red, furless monsters with 250 eyes all over its body chasing wannabee captains on an ice planet. Every time I see that scene I go, “Oh no, not that. Oh geez”. This does stretch my credulity! LOL. Groan.

The other scene that hurts whenever I watch is when Kirk is being repeatedly punched in the face by these “disciplined?”, but definitely uniformed Starfleet cadets. Clearly discipline and basic respect are not always synonymous with the wearing of a uniform! Unfortunately, that scene does not stretch my credulity at all, if only it did.

I never had a problem with the notion of Spock and Kirk meeting like that, or that they end up meeting Scotty as well. If it were not for prime Spock recognising Scotty, the new Kirk and Scotty would not have been any the wiser about each other. I am more curious about how Kirk knew the beagle. (Oh, I can hear Bob saying “not that dog again.”…). I am living one of those incredible coincidences or is it a case of synchronicity?…

Someone mentioned synchronicity. This is like deja vu to me. I talked about synchronicity in relation to how prime Spock and Kirk meet in this alternate time 18 months ago when I first started posting to the Star Trek 09 IMDb message board. People thought I was nuts. I will not argue that notion that I just could be nuts ;), but not necessarily in this context.

(*assuming that JJ Abrams will be directing)

306. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

People usually measure the odds informally by consulting their “feelings” on the matter, which in turn are based on their own experiences. So, if you go through life thinking nothing unusual happens because that’s your experience, then we tend to project that same attitude everywhere, and it’s an awful measure because our individual experiences are often so limited and do not even match up to the experiences of our fellow human beings in many many cases, which is why it’s so important to listen to other people when forming a broad view of the sort of universe we live in.

Kirk and Spock meeting in the cave was not an issue for me at all. I loved it and it’s one of my favorite parts of the movie. Nor do I think it is that coincidental, for the reasons Bob gave.

Nero went to Vulcan to destroy it, and lured Starfleet there. He marooned Spock on Delta Vega to watch. The Enterprise (with Kirk) was there to respond to the emergency. Young Spock decided to get rid of Kirk who wasn’t supposed to be on the ship anyway. Delta Vega being nearby and with a Starfleet outpost was the logical place to dump him. As you consider it the initial scope of the coincidences shrink until all you have left is them meeting in the cave. A synchronicity I am happy to accept particularly when stranger ones have happened in reality.

307. tony - March 27, 2011

Happy Birthday Mr. Nimoy you are and always shall be a fascinating man

308. Bill Peters - March 27, 2011

Not only do JFK, Bush and Obama Apply but I would dare say getting a Battle Field Promotion isn’t all that rare in the real world, Also I would say saving the world from becoming a Black Hole shows you know what your doing. Also Bob Orci can we see Klingons in the next film?

309. Bill Peters - March 27, 2011

JFK one Term Sentor before President, Much like Kirk at the Academy
Obama, One Term Sentor before President, Much like Kirk.
Bush, two Term Governor before President. much like Kirk.

IT used to be you had to be in the Seante or be a longer term Governer before you became President you didn’t win if you were somone who came basicly out of no where.

Battle Feld Promotons, being Promoted to First Officer by Captian Pike after making Spock Captian, Spock Being Relived of Duity because of being Emontonaly Comprmised, Kirk Winning the Battle with the Narada to save earth, all Merit his Promotion to Captian to Relive Admeral Pike.

310. captain_neill - March 27, 2011

Bob

I guess the alternate universe Enterprise doesn’t have a Brig. LOL

Seriously though I understand that Alt Spock dumping Kirk on Delta Vega was necessary to the plot. Just saying.

311. captain_neill - March 27, 2011

287

I agree, Enterprise was a great show.

If the fans had given that show the respect that they give this new movie it would have gotten a full 7 year run.

312. P Technobabble - March 27, 2011

304. Trekprincess

You are actually in the majority. It’s the minority who makes the most gurgling sounds.

313. boborci - March 27, 2011

310.

weve discussed this before. Spock calculated that Kirk is a genius who will stop at nothing to “win.” Spock knows kirk would likely escape. so he makes it even more difficult for him. AND STILL, he “escapes!”

314. keachick - March 27, 2011

#296 – “From Orci’s cheerleading squad are you? (Kidding)”

OK. That’s it. I am hereby sending invoices for time spent being their unofficial publicists – to JJ Abrams, Chris Pine and now Roberto Orci. This is because I have received notification from posters to various message boards that I have been promoting these three people. On the IMDb board, I and others have apparently received monies from JJ Abrams. On Justjared someone enquired or was it “pooed” me, citing that I was obviously Chris Pine’s publicist. And now this.

Gentlemen, have you cheque books and pens ready. I cannot afford to keep doing this work for free. You three work it out between yourselves – you should all be seeing one another very shortly and I NEED a new kitchen.

Anthony – I am not spoofing. What I am saying is true. The truth is that I do not know any of you. I just watch the relevant television programmes, movies and boards relating to Chris Pine and comment as I see things and people are writing this stuff about me.

315. NuFan - March 27, 2011

Hooray for Alternate Universes so that people my age can get into Star Trek!

316. Jonny - March 27, 2011

dmduncan – i dunno why, but i’m only now seeing your posts regarding evolved ranking and promotion structure – argument accepted, Sir … Mr. Orci, possibly a line to explain that in the sequel for the purists?

Also, I have one little nitpick I’d like to ask about… are there enlisted ranks in this Starfleet…? Not that it’s story vital, but as a military purist, we as fans would like to understand this Starfleet,

317. captain_neill - March 27, 2011

313

I know it was a required story beat.

I guess creating an alternate universe to get round canon was like opening Pandora’s Box.

I view your film as a separate entity from the rest of Trek, exists as part of the Trek legacy but sepaarate from rest.

318. Phil - March 27, 2011

271. dmduncan – March 27, 2011

Probably not the best example, as brevetting was a temporary move, and has been abandoned as a means of promotion quite some time ago. Battlefield promotions and commissions really don’t apply, either, because it would either be a jump in rank for enlisted personel, or a move to a low ranking officer designation, not to flag command.

As far as the movie goes, it happened, and its time to move on. My opinion here, but I suspect the next story needs to be far enough down the line that Kirk has seasoned a bit, and maybe learned the rules of engagement. It’s going to be mighty boring otherwise to have to watch that.

319. captain_neill - March 27, 2011

317

However separate does not mean bad, just different from what a lot of us grew up with.

It allows you to do what you like and keeps us happy that canon is still there. Best of Both Worlds (pardon the pun)

But Vulcan being destroyed was choice I was not happy with. I agree it was a gutsy move but destroying that was a hard moment to watch in the movie.

320. Trekprincess - March 27, 2011

Boborci don’t you ever get sick of seeing all the same complaints about the film like oh cadet to captain that sucks, the alternate timeline that sucks etc:)

321. VZX - March 27, 2011

When I first heard of Vulcan being destroyed, it pissed me off. And then, watching it in theaters, I was OK with it for two reasons: First, the way it was destroyed was so impossible that it reminded me it was fake, fiction, and then I was like “ok, whatev.” Secondly: the scene at the end with the two Spocks reminded me of Superman’s plight: of being without a homeworld, last of your kind. I thought that was kinda cool.

322. Trekprincess - March 27, 2011

Captainneill get over it :) and you will find you will enjoy it

323. keachick - March 27, 2011

The Enterprise does have a brig and that was where the security men were going to put Kirk, except that Kirk fought them and may well have won the fight if it weren’t for the famous Vulcan neck pinch. Kirk can fight alright, if there is a good enough reason and that may not be necessarily just to save his own arse. I think that Kirk’s notion of “winning” is less egocentric than it would be for most other people.

A lot of people here and elsewhere have commented at how nuKirk is not really like the TOS Kirk. I remember reading a comment by someone (not here) who, upon seeing the scene where Kirk is told to stay in the pod but Kirk does not stay put, almost fell on the floor laughing. All he could say, “Oh Yeah. That’s Kirk, alright, no question about it. Of course, he’s not going to stay put…”. In fact, telling Kirk something like that is like being a red rag to a bull.

I suspect that Kirk, in this alt. universe, understands the chain of command, the need for a certain order and discipline, as well as he did in the prime TOS universe. However, he is highly intelligent, very intuitive, an independent thinker and doer (thinks “outside the square” or “the circle”…) and is also fundamentally a very “moral” person, as in having a great deal of gracious goodwill towards others, without being naive. It would have been naive of him to think that those redshirt cadets were not out to make trouble, although, I think, for a second, Kirk may have thought so. Fighting silly fisty-cuffs and doing the Kirk-fu or whatever do not necessarily make a person a winner overall. It might be *fun* to watch for two minutes but there is a lot more to real winning and Kirk knows this.

324. NuFan - March 27, 2011

I think some of the more disturbed people don’t even care if Star Trek is good or not. They just want to lose themselves in the canon. What I don’t understand is why they still can’t do that. It didn’t get destroyed. Strange.

325. Jonny - March 27, 2011

320. You take on a staple of pop culture phenomena, you accept the blindfold and cigarette, Orci and Kurtzman are simply next in line on the guillotine block beside Brannon Braga, Rick Berman, Manny Coto, Michael Piller, Mike Sussman et al…

I’m sure they had some idea of what they were getting into, tho I sincerely doubt that Berman would hang himself out like this.

326. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

318: “Probably not the best example, as brevetting was a temporary move, and has been abandoned as a means of promotion quite some time ago.”

Yes, but that wasn’t my entire argument. It was just one aspect. See the others.

Jumping that much rank does have historical precedent, and was within Pike’s power to grant as he did. Pike didn’t KNOW Kirk would maneuver Spock out of and himself into the center seat, but that too is consistent with the character of James Kirk. And since Pike wasn’t expecting to die he also probably wasn’t expecting Kirk to be the permanent first officer or Spock to be the permanent new captain, which again acquits his decision as sound, especially given what everyone knows, i.e., that James Kirk is brilliant. He’s not the typical starfleet officer.

Now what remains is to explain the permanency of the brevetting which, this being a movie about the 23rd century — containing all manner of strangenesses that do not exist now — and not about the 19th or 20th century, is what the rest of my argument focused on.

It was all very logical. I assure you. ;-)

327. Jonny - March 27, 2011

I dislike the movie still, but you can’t help but admire Orci standing in the light like this, facing all detractors.

328. Bill Peters - March 27, 2011

Bob Orci, your an outstanding Individual for coming here, I love your work with Star Trek so far and look foward to the new film, Also love getting to talk with all my fellow fans on here that talk and even interacting with those who only read the Trekback, Thanks for such a cool Website Anthony. Everyone Live long and Prosper, I know that Trek will.

329. Bill Peters - March 27, 2011

As a Man in his 29th Year with High Functioning Autism, Trek was the first Real time Experiencing Freinds, Understanding and Accpetance, I love Trek for what it is. Bob Orci, and Team you Rock.

330. Bill Peters - March 27, 2011

been a Trek fans sence 6 Years old :)

331. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

Also, Phil, while true that brevetting doesn’t exist now, that is still not to say that brevetting — or something like it — will not be a Starfleet regulation in the 23rd century. If we are to conclude from what Pike did, then I’d say battlefield promotions are back, at least given the unusual circumstances in the movie with the Enterprise being out of communication with Starfleet Command.

332. Jonny - March 27, 2011

331, Likely something to be addressed in the sequel, even if only a line of dialogue from resentful shipmates.

“You were given a command over at least a dozen more qualified candidates… can you earn it?”

333. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 27, 2011

I quite enjoyed ST “oh!” 9.

Pisses me off hearing people constantly ripping things apart.

All good entertainment though! The debate is interesting (if often repetitive).

The next movie has me nervous though…where will it take my beloved Trek??

Maybe I should stick to Orc-loving and wizard-fiddling….

334. Grenn - March 27, 2011

@ 333 – Dude, I hope that isn’t a metaphor… ewwww.

335. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 27, 2011

if Gandalf plays his cards right it could be a metaFIVE!

Lucky wizard…

336. Nerdette - March 27, 2011

I’m not sure who it was who called Kirk a douchebag, but it’s dead on. He grabs Uhura’s breasts, albeit by accident, and grins like a 13 year old who discovered his first erection. Also, the uniforms make no sense. I get it’s supposed to be a throwback to that era, but it seems like Uhura’s been reduced to a squeezetoy with a *lot* of sexual innuendo implied toward her character. I can’t imagine Nichelle Nichols would have imagined her character like that.

337. Jonny - March 27, 2011

335

336 lol

338. Jonny - March 27, 2011

…335 – didnt post correctly – supossed to be “skin crawl”

339. keachick - March 27, 2011

#326 – “Pike didn’t KNOW Kirk would maneuver Spock out of and himself into the center seat, but that too is consistent with the character of James Kirk.”

How is this consistent with Kirk’s character? Nor did Kirk know this. Sure, he did not agree with Spock’s decision. However, it was Spock prime who told him that he had to become captain and for Kirk to prove that Spock was emotionally compromised.

The problem was that Pike appeared to give both Kirk and Spock two conflicting orders. Pike told Spock that, if all else fails, the Enterprise should join the rest of the fleet in the Laurentian system. However, when Kirk asks Pike in the lift (Spock would have heard the conversation) what they should do about Pike, Pike replies, “Oh, you’ll just have to come back and get me”.
The key to this is how Kirk and Spock interpreted “if all else fails” differently. Spock saw only failure, as in Nero and his ship were more powerful etc and retreat the only option, whereas Kirk saw failure as in not getting Pike back and at least attempting to stop Nero somehow. Of course, Kirk had little idea how these could be achieved, but retreating definitely meant that NOTHING could be achieved and time was of the essence.

340. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 27, 2011

I was jokinG.

I have to agree with the Kirk characterisation in the ST 09.
There was some good stuff, but scenes with Uhura in the bar, etc was too childish and not a good look for the future of mankind….

…not quite what you would call progressive….

341. keachick - March 27, 2011

“I can’t imagine Nichelle Nichols would have imagined her character like that.”

Nichelle Nichols affirms how Uhura was played in this movie. Only in your mind is Uhura a “squeeze toy”. You can read into it whatever you want to, and jeepers, haven’t people done that alright, and have ended up getting Uhura’s motivations all wrong? Some people have quite deceitful and smutty minds – just calling it as I see it.

About Kirk and the breast squeeze – well, boys will still be boys, no matter how old they are. I think he was a bit shocked and then very pleasantly surprised and showed it. Of course, he (and everyone else?) expected Uhura to react the way she did…

342. Nerdette - March 27, 2011

@341 I’ve seen quite a few references to it online, so I’m apparently not the only one. At least William Shatner’s Kirk didn’t require so many beatings. Apparently “Cupcake-Fu” was more effective than his “Kirk-Fu” I think you said.

343. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

339: “How is this consistent with Kirk’s character? Nor did Kirk know this. Sure, he did not agree with Spock’s decision. However, it was Spock prime who told him that he had to become captain and for Kirk to prove that Spock was emotionally compromised.”

Well I’ll tell you how.

Spock Prime tells that to 1000 freshly minted starfleet officers and only one guy both pulls it off AND knows what to do after he pulls it off. That’s James Kirk’s character, something Spock Prime knew about young Kirk that not even young Kirk knew for sure about himself.

“The problem was that Pike appeared to give both Kirk and Spock two conflicting orders. Pike told Spock that, if all else fails, the Enterprise should join the rest of the fleet in the Laurentian system.”

Pike’s order to go the the Laurentian system may seemed good at the time he gave it before Vulcan was destroyed, but after that the strategy had to change because Nero showed his hand by destroying Vulcan, and Kirk was the man to see the job through. Kirk was right. They could not let Nero escape. Had they mechanically followed Pike’s order to rendezvous regardless of how the situation had changed, then earth would have been lost too.

344. keachick - March 27, 2011

The scene between Uhura and Kirk in the bar is not what bothers me, in terms of a good look for the future of mankind. It was the bullying and fighting that took place afterwards. Now that IS scary.

Kirk and Uhura were engaging in ageless sexual innuendo and banter and they both knew how to acquit themselves. They both showed humour. Uhura took it down somewhat by referring to “sex with animals” but Kirk made up for it with his humorous retort. It was actually a scene with a lot of clever dialogue. The problem was that the redshirted cadets were too thick. This is a problem some very bright people have sometimes, unfortunately, and they get “nailed” for it by mean thickos.

345. Jonny - March 27, 2011

344 not to mention the ‘oral skills’ mentioned by Spock when she used it to influence her assignment aboard Enterprise.

346. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 27, 2011

Usually a thicko redshirt quickly becomes a deado redshirt.

Good to see that irrational bullying still exists in the 23rd.

It makes me feel like I’m at home….

My mutt is always hogging my sofa-space when Trek is on…

…either him or the rest of my family………….goddam bullies!!!

You got to admire their taste though…..: )P

347. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 27, 2011

I would love to expand and comment on the “oral/aural sensitivity” scenario, but fear it could the last post I would make….

348. Jonny - March 27, 2011

347. The audience wasn’t lost that they got that Uhura was implying that she was polishing Spock’s torpedo. Great example of feminine equality in the 23rd century advancing no further than 1966.

349. NuFan - March 27, 2011

Nerdette=Jeyl=Iva

350. Nerdette - March 27, 2011

349… ?

351. keachick - March 27, 2011

#343 Except that Spock still kept insisting on retreating to the Laurentian system AFTER Vulcan had been destroyed. Kirk reminded Spock of what Pike said about them going to get him but Spock ignored that as well. Spock heard Pike’s first command and given that Vulcan had been destroyed, Spock took this to mean “if all else fails”, in other words, he saw that there was no way of beating Nero. As I said, it was a matter of two different people’s interpretation of the words, “if all else fails”.

I understand where Kirk was coming from. I think that most people could, except that, at that time, Spock could not and was taking the Enterprise in the wrong direction.

I understand what you mean by “consistent with the character of Kirk”. I thought you meant that Kirk was only ever interested in being the captain, of being in control, irrespective of the circumstances. I am not sure that Kirk is any kind of control freak. It is just that he is a natural leader who makes sense when he explains things and this is why people tend to accept him and trust his judgment. Even Spock, after hearing Kirk’s reasoning on why he thought they were going into a trap, accepted his conclusions as being logical.

352. keachick - March 27, 2011

“At least William Shatner’s Kirk didn’t require so many beatings. Apparently “Cupcake-Fu” was more effective than his “Kirk-Fu” I think you said.”

Why would you say that either Kirk ‘REQUIRED’ so many beatings? You do know what “required” means?

You will need to explain “Cupcake-Fu”. I think I know what you mean, but I want you to explain it all in detail, just in case I may misinterpret this expression.

#347 and 348 The words are “aural sensitivity”. I will have to check the subtitles on the DVD, but I don’t remember any other spelling being given. Let’s not go there again. Bob Orci has already explained what the characters’ motivations were in this scene. If you prefer to think of Uhura just wanting to polish Spock’s torpedo, then that’s your problem (oops Freudian slip on my part here). I meant to type “privilege”. Believe me or not.

DUH!

353. Jonny - March 27, 2011

352 – uh huh… im sure it was totally meant as a non sexual innuendo… to quote boborci: “don’t be dense”

354. dmduncan - March 27, 2011

351: “I thought you meant that Kirk was only ever interested in being the captain, of being in control, irrespective of the circumstances.”

No, that’s not what I meant. I don’t think Kirk is a douchebag. I think he’s an essentially moral person discovering his purpose, and sometimes the journey is a little rocky.

Most of us can probably relate. Those who can’t are probably perfect.

355. Jonny - March 27, 2011

354 Respectfully disagree, and no, I didn’t write the article.

http://io9.com/#!5250171/so-really-why-is-captain-kirk-such-a-douchebag

356. keachick - March 27, 2011

#353 Jonny – “352 – uh huh… im sure it was totally meant as a non sexual innuendo… to quote boborci: “don’t be dense””

I did not ask you, Jonny, for an explanation and no, I am not dense. It was Nerdette who made the comment, saying it was I said…at least, that is what I think was meant. Nerdette was referring to me, to my post, no. 341. I have re-posted what Nerdette wrote:-
“Apparently “Cupcake-Fu” was more effective than his “Kirk-Fu” I think you said.”

357. Jack - March 27, 2011

@94. It can’t work. Not with the TOS characters. There’s no room for new stories that have any real suspense to ‘em if so much of their future’s already been written, especially such a detailed future.

Even without being bound to canon, I’m sure that, even with the new timeline, the writers have gotta spend more time on wikipedia, or the Trek version (what’s it called again?) than they’d like (hint to fans: change the entries so you get what you’d like in the next one — like those trips to planets named after you, that episode where Sulu hooked up with a yeoman named after you, etc.).

I know some here have said they’d have preferred a reboot, or wouldn’t have minded a little messing around with details as long as it stayed in the prime universe — me, I don’t get that.

358. Jonny - March 27, 2011

356. Withdrawn,

…between getting slapped by Uhura, having his ass handed to him by “Cupcake redshirt”, rolled like a ragdoll by Spock, a minor bitchslapping by Nero and then finally Ayel, it appears Cadet Douche-Kirk could have spent a bit more time in hand to hand studies perfecting that double handed chop that Kirk-Prime perfected… the only sci-fi character I’ve seen take more beatings was that Baltar guy from the Battlestar Galactica reboot.

359. keachick - March 27, 2011

The article is crap. The writer did not even know, let alone understand, the William Shatner Kirk. Some of the criticisms made showed that the critic/writer seemed not to live in the real world. Unfortunately, some bruises don’t just disappear overnight. With critics like these, I’d hate to think how they would deal with a crisis. Give me a Pine/Kirk any day. At least, I have a greater expectation that my planet earth would not get done in by some Nero, than I could ever hope for from some of these writers.

The range of negative, unsympathetic words used against a young Kirk is well, unsettling actually. What is the matter with people? Vitriolic nastiness directed at fictional characters and real people. People just can’t seem to stop themselves. It is cynical and sick.

360. Jonny - March 27, 2011

Sponsored by an organization that promotes unearned field commissions? The real world, despite many claims to the contrary doesn’t work that way.

361. DeShonn Steinblatt - March 27, 2011

Happy Birthday, Leonard! Thanks for all the fun!!!

362. keachick - March 27, 2011

#358 You do realise that Romulans and Vulcans are much stronger than humans are, so it is really no surprise that Kirk came off badly in those encounters. So did prime Kirk in TOS. With “Cupcake redshirt”, there was more than one redshirt beating Kirk up. Remember, Cupcake saying to Kirk, “there are four of us…” and they all had a go at him.

Calling a man who has been bullied by three or four guys or attacked by people who are known to be physically a lot stronger, a douche, lout, whatever is unjust, to say the least. Name calling because a person “loses” a fight, especially against very uneven odds, is VERBAL BULLYING.

This is what has really disgusted me when reading some of the articles and postings about the bar scene (in particular) over the last 18 months or so. So too, the mean smutty comments made against Star Trek 09’s Lt Uhura, especially when they even extend it to Zoe Saldana.

Enough already!

363. keachick - March 27, 2011

“Sponsored by an organization that promotes unearned field commissions? The real world, despite many claims to the contrary doesn’t work that way.”

What organisation?

364. Jonny - March 27, 2011

362 Having been in uniform at one point, I can tell you, rule #1 There’s no ambiguity about “Piss off”. rule #2, when you’re outnumbered 4 to 1 it’d be healthier to back off… to square off against 4, not even a blackbelt will help you.

and Archer must have been a powerhouse because he seems to have held his own against a Vulcan (ENT “The Forge”), and Enterprise is still canon, right?

Lastly, Zoe Saldana (who isn’t my favorite actress and wouldn’t have been my first choice as Uhura), can only thank the dialogue she was given – how that’s perceived, and again, the word play on ‘aural sensitivity’… i mean really? that doesn’t paint her in a less than puritan light? granted, her emerald roommate makes her look saintly, but there was clear innuendo intended…

365. Jonny - March 27, 2011

363 This incarnation of Starfleet.

366. Anthony Pascale - March 27, 2011

jonny watch your tone, watch your language and might i also suggest…chill

367. keachick - March 27, 2011

“362 Having been in uniform at one point, I can tell you, rule #1 There’s no ambiguity about “Piss off”. rule #2, when you’re outnumbered 4 to 1 it’d be healthier to back off… to square off against 4, not even a blackbelt will help you.”

Jonny, really? You being in uniform, as in military? What can I say?

No ambiguity about “Piss off”? Who was saying “piss off”? Do you mean Kirk by ignoring the red shirts and trying to continue to have a conversation with Uhura? or are you referring to the red shirted cadets and their aggressive stance towards Kirk talking to Uhura?

I agree it is better to back off when it is four against one. Why were the four threatening the one in the first place? Back off to where? Physically, they had both Kirk and Uhura cornered. Do you mean Kirk should have stopped talking to Uhura, even when she said of Kirk, “nothing I can’t handle”? (It was Kirk’s quick wit who put a spin on that expression…LOL)

As I have already said, I do not recall seeing any sign saying, “Starfleet Members Bar Only” or anything to that effect. It was one of Iowa’s local “watering holes”, open to all comers. Or are you saying that there is some unwritten rule that makes this bar somehow exclusive? Why would it be? Why should it be?

Careful how you answer these questions. I assume you do have answers.

As for “aural sensitivity” – unless Spock did things with her ears (maybe he also had a “talented” tongue), we are not told. Aural sensitivity means just that, being able to hear subtle sounds, inflections, very slight variations in tone… and Kirk’s breathing under the bed. I am sure a musician, singer and linguist would understand what I am saying. “clear innuendo intended”. What innuendo, except in your clouded mind?

The only innuendo/double-entendre was Kirk’s reference to Uhura having “a talented tongue”. That was CLEAR, given the context and situation of the conversation. The same simply CANNOT be said of Uhura confronting Spock over his assigning her to the Farragut instead of the Enterprise. Different situation. Different context. Who says that Uhura has to be “pure”, whatever that means? Once again, her “purity” has nothing to do with her aural sensitivity.

I realise that guys (and it seems some of the women here…) cannot go without thinking about their gonads for more than 60 seconds, but at least, try. It may give you a whole new perspective and more balanced one at that.

368. Jonny - March 27, 2011

Apologies, Anthony, please don’t read into the tone, and I’m reasonable sure I’m keeping the language sedate with the possible exception of “P*** Off) …I’m not stressed by this – this is actually quite fun, but I do feel like I’ve hijacked the thread a bit too much. This has been quite a day actually being able to engage intelligent feedback, my final note was going to thank everyone for allowing me to participate.

No offence intended. :)

369. Harry Ballz - March 27, 2011

Did you say gonads or nomads? This is a Trek site, after all…….

370. Jonny - March 27, 2011

Keachick – as I just noted to Anthony, I think I’ve had a bit too much fun with this thread today. I’ll concede on the “everyone’s opinion is valid” platform.

On that note, to everyone who allowed me to participate – thank you… no offence intended to anyone, and alternate universe or no, it was a bad movie in my opnion.

Night all.

371. Red Dead Ryan - March 27, 2011

267.
…….

“I realise that guys (and it seems some of the women here…) cannot go without thinking about their gonads for more than 60 seconds, but at least, try. It may give you a whole new perspective and more balanced one at that.”

That’s some very good and timely advice. Unfortunately, we live in an age where people prefer to do their thinking with what’s between their legs as opposed to what’s between their ears.

372. Red Dead Ryan - March 27, 2011

369.
…….

Harry, I get the feeling that when you were still in high school, during sex education, you’d be the first to snicker at the mention of private parts or sieze the opportunity to make one of your patented “inside” jokes like how the horny politicians like to hold erections……

373. Harry Ballz - March 27, 2011

372.

Yes, Ryan, and your point is???

374. Jack - March 27, 2011

365. Yeah, maybe were they based on aptitude tests, presumed academy hotshotedness (it seems likely that Pine’s Kirk was driven to beat every academy record, hence the Kobayashi Maru stunt, even though it wasn’t stated in the film [again, could’ve used a Bones line like “Can’t it be enough to break every other damned record in this place?” — lots of goddamns in Bones’ lines],), and Pike’s uncanny instincts. Amazing meritocracy, the future.

It seems like a little too much faith (from the characters and from teh audience)… but I get that they wanted a light, happy ending (alas, sans the clarinet of humor) and all the pieces in place. So I can buy it.

I always got the sense with TOS that Kirk had been unusually driven and worked like heck, ignoring the rest of his life, to get where he did — I liked that about the character. He was always a little broken. But whatever. Maybe his dad really pushed him, and this new Kirk has a whole different set of abandonment-fueled motivations.

And I’m just one lone bald guy, but I’m still confused on the supernova thing. Any astronomers out there? Phil Plait has said it would need to be about 25 light years away at most to damage a planet. Okay, so it threatened billions, or trillions (which is a lot of people). I’m honestly just curious. The movie still works.

And lets say that, if it could do damage to a much bigger area, wouldn’t the blast take at least 10,000 years to spread 10,000 light years, and, once it had exploded, wouldn’t it be too late to collapse the star (the blast has already happened)? Feel free to punch me. The Countdown explanation (this wasn’t your garden variety supernova) sat better. I’m not trying to be a dick here, I’m curious if it was a case of keeping the science in the movie simple (as nobody in its universe would need an explanation because they’re all smarter than me, and it eliminates adding more details that fans could point to and say “J’accuse!” .French fans.) or if there was more to it than that (some the nifty new science).

And the meeting on delta vega – Spock could have said he saw Kirk’s pod come down on his way to the outpost and was walking toward him, or something equally complicated, but whatever, it doesn’t bug me. Keeping it simple allows for a hell of a lot of possibilities (they were both put down near the outpost, as Nero wanted Spock to survive? Okay, sure.). Doesn’t that outpost have sensors (2 guys nearby, 2 ships in orbit, a pod with a beacon, a nearby planet gone and dozens of ships destroyed) or CNN? Maybe not. Well, even that is pretty believable, actually (and works a lot better than “Captain, long range sensors detect a positronic signature… across the galaxy”).

And, back to countdown — it helped make more sense of the explanation in Spocks mind meld, and of Nero’s motivations. Was that backstory around at all when you were writing, or did you guys feel later that the movie explanation needed fleshing out?

Was there anything in Trek09 that the writers weren’t thrilled with, like Nimoy and Trek III (“Maybe, in retrospect, we might have found a better story or construct” — I liked it, except for the quickie “Yeah, I sneaked in protomatter” explanation… why not just let it fail for unknown reasons… oh, and Saavik)?

And while we’re on aural sensitivity (Roger Ebert caught the single entendre too in his review), am I the only one who thought the line about “tracking solar systems” felt off? Alas, not because it was dirty. But are other star systems still called solar systems, or is that just us?

But, really, I liked your movie.

375. Battle-scarred Sciatica - March 27, 2011

Remember Star Trek is a fictional world people (although my wife would not believe I just said that).
Let us just enjoy (or not) the wonderful worlds of Trek and the stories told by the various authors.

Keep on Trekkin’

: )P

376. keachick - March 27, 2011

“And while we’re on aural sensitivity (Roger Ebert caught the single entendre too in his review)”

I don’t know what Roger Ebert’s single entendre was in relation to aural sensitivity. However, it does seem that a huge number of people lacked a certain aural sensitivity not to be able to discern the difference between “aural” and “oral”. Proper application of ear cleansing solution should help sort these problems out.

Harry – what have nomads got to do with anything? It seems that not only is aural sensitivity not what it should be, but also visual acuity. What to do…:)

377. captain_neill - March 27, 2011

322

As ever you NEVER EVER read the whole message.

I DO enjoy the new movie. Just because I wasn’t a fan of some of the creative decisions does NOT mean I hate the movie.

The destruction of Vulcan I don’t like, I admit that. But you know whatI still like the movie.

Perhaps you need to get off your high hoorse once and for all and stop labelling me as a hater.

Although I prefer the prime universe, I said the writers made a good choice as it does not spoil canon. SO I respect the decision even if it is not the decision I would have made.

378. captain_neill - March 27, 2011

Sometimes when I read comments from some newbies I wonder if JJ Abrams got more people into Star Trek or just his Star Trek?

379. Damian - March 28, 2011

I did not have time to read all 378 comments so hopefully I do not step on toes here.

Nimoy was essential to the last film if for no other reason than to provide a link to all that has come before. Hence, the film is not a true reboot. However, I think his role provided a true closure for his character. I don’t really see a need to revisit his character again and my impression is that he feels the same way.

I’d like to see the new cast take the reins (much like TNG cast in First Contact). It’s time for them to sprout their wings and I am confident they will do that well. Nimoy did a great job as Spock, and his portrayal always seemed natural and organic. My one complaint about Tim Russ as Tuvok, Jolene Blalok as T’Pol are that they seemed to force the lack of emotion and passion. It never seemed natural to them. Even Zachary Quinto seemed to force it a bit as Spock. They all did a decent job in many respects, but I’d like to see Quinto relax in the role a bit more.

380. ensign joe - March 28, 2011

“I’ll concede on the “everyone’s opinion is valid” platform”

Never give up, never surrender!

381. ensign joe - March 28, 2011

“I’d like to see Quinto relax in the role a bit more”

And learn how to do a proper Vulcan salute ;)

382. skyjedi - March 28, 2011

If only they had made a film set in the prime timeline with Shatner and Nimoy, oh what could have been. Instead we got trek 90210 with the apple store bridge and a brewery for engineering and nacelles that look like 747 get engines,lol.

383. Harry Ballz - March 28, 2011

376.

keachick, I was simply alluding to Nomad from The Changeling episode of TOS.

384. keachick - March 28, 2011

I have not seen that episode in a long time. Anyway, wasn’t there only one Nomad? On the other hand, the vast majority of people have two… which seem to be engaged, even at the most inappropriate times.

Evidence – various posts on trekmovie.com. If only all of them were nice and a little funny as well…

385. Harry Ballz - March 28, 2011

Gonads??? It takes balls to make a remark like that!

386. keachick - March 28, 2011

Yes, well, my balls are very small and tucked away inside me. They have served me well…actually very, very well, giving me two of my three children a wee bit earlier than I had planned. I am quite proud of my gonads and they don’t pester to be engaged when it is not their place…well, most of the time…:)

387. Nerdette - March 28, 2011

Now who’s thinking between their legs :P

388. Red Dead Ryan - March 29, 2011

385.
…….

“Gonads??? It takes balls to make a remark like that!”

Or hairy balls. Or to be even more specific, Harry Ballz…..

389. Harry Ballz - March 29, 2011

Well, enough of this BALLZERAMA! Let’s get back to Trek on the newer threads!

390. keachick - March 29, 2011

Oh Harry! Poor Harry…:)

#387 My “balls” aren’t found between my legs!

391. Harry Ballz - March 29, 2011

Gee, keachick, when you say “Poor Harry”, it almost sounds cute! :>)

392. Admiral_Bumblebee - March 30, 2011

I think it could have worked better with the film opening in the prime universe with the TNG crew and Spock being in pursuit of Nero and Spock and Nero vanishing in the black hole.

In the end the TNG crew could have been shown again paying their farewell to Spock and going on to the next adventure – then a cut back to the new universe with Kirk in command of the Enterprise. This way all would have known that the prime universe was still intact.

But maybe this would have been too much for Joe Average…

393. Christopher Roberts - March 30, 2011

Probably too difficult to convince Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner et all to do a sort of reverse-Generations cameo. Although that would’ve been nice for old timers like me, Paramount would probably have vetoed it as it makes Star Trek 2009 feel like less of a reboot… beginning the film with an extra scene from Nemesis.

394. skyjedi - March 31, 2011

The worst part of the new movie Spock forgets how he time traveled in star trek IV. He must have Alzheimer’s or something.

He could just slingshot around the sun and save Vulcan and Romulus.

Its not really time travel if he went to another universe, that would be like setting a star trek series in the mirror universe and replacing the real star trek series with it.

395. Jim - April 2, 2011

I still want the time line restored. You can tell great stories in the canon universe. Just go into the future 100 years or so. Another thing its not that the alt universe is a bad a idea, but fans want the story to be told in the canon universe with characters and history we know and love.

396. TrekkieJan - April 4, 2011

Boborci – thank you for the reply. Cheap angst being somewhat subjective (I maintain there are many ways to make a character sympathetic and vulnerable that do not require destroying a planet and killing an iconic character – his mother and more ways to show that vulnerability than macking on another iconic character), I will move on to your interesting (well done, sir) story of pitching the destruction of Vulcan to Mr. Nimoy. And what were his options with this information? Did you give him veto power over the idea or was his option to step away from the project?

397. RWARRIORB - July 6, 2011

I remember watching Star Trek when it first came out in the 60s. It will always be my favorite of all the Star Trek series. It seems as time as gone by the special effects and budgets have increased but not the acting or the story lines. Altho I enjoyed the new Star Trek movie, I absolutely hated the new design of the Enterprise and the new time line. I think what we have to look forward to now is a lesser version of the original. For example, my favorite episode of Star Trek will always be the balance of terror. Where Kirk was truly at his best. With this new time line, I seriously doubt we will see the episodes that made Star Trek great. I think they need to find a way for Kirk to come back and save the day again. (The real Kirk not wanna be Kirk Pine!) Save us one more time Captain James Tiberious Shatner Kirk!

398. Mister Deneebian Slime Devil - October 10, 2011

Happy Birthday and many many more Mr. Nimoy. Despite your sagacity and well earned ownership of the Trek saga on many levels, I must respectuflly disagree with with many of his points—–the “new and rebooted” Star Trek franchise is off to a very ,very shaky start in my opinion. Rodenberry’s Star Trek had alot, in my opinion, in common with such series as “The Outter Limits” and “Twilight Zone”–which were also quick and dirty, low budget environments where actors in the futuristic context discuss big social and ethical questions, question which are in the forefront of our thinking: war/racism/space vs. staying home/is it okay to (fill in the blank) in this modern age. But, the actors, were in fact acting, and the acting carried the story. The recent Star Trek movie was a special effects extravaganza, and the “actors” if you will, were little better than action figure dolls wiggled for the viewer for a few seconds in order the push the story along. There were so many early Trek concepts which could have been explored: Kirk’s hazing at the hands of Finnegan, Spock’s dissaproving father and sensitive mother, Pike’s ambivalence about his job and a desire for less responsibility and more freedom, Commodore Dekker’s rise and mentoring/friendship with Kirk, Uhura’s cultural roots, McCoy’s home life in Georgia, echos of Earth’s World War III, and so on. If the new Star Trek is to just be another Star Wars with Trekkian characters, it will be a snooze and wither on the vine. But isnt that the Star Trek Curse???

399. cver - November 6, 2011

one major problem for me! DELTA VEGA IS NO WHERE NEAR VULCAN! and the alternate universe is a cop out and it SUCKS! also would love to see john cho scantly clad as much as trekkie possilbe :-P

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