Roberto Orci: Star Trek Sequel To Be “More Daring” + Trekkies Are “Consultants” + more [UPDATED] | TrekMovie.com
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Roberto Orci: Star Trek Sequel To Be “More Daring” + Trekkies Are “Consultants” + more [UPDATED] April 2, 2011

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

[UPDATED] Today Roberto Orci joined director Jon Favreau on the Cowboys and Aliens Panel at Wondercon in San Francisco. While there he talked a little Star Trek, saying that he has been listening to fan feedback, and also feels they will be more ‘daring’ with the Star Trek sequel. More details below plus a new poll.

 

Orci listening to fan feedback on young Kirk, Character, and Brewery

As regular readers know, Star Trek producer/co-writer Roberto Orci often visits the comments section here at TrekMovie, both to engage with his fellow fans and to keep track of feedback. Today at Wondercon the writer told BoxOffice Magazine he considered Star Trek fans "consultants", noting "I enjoy seeing what people say, even if it’s super nasty." Bob also gave some examples on how feedback is being heard…

Orci on Kirk being too young to be captain:

Well, some people thought Kirk, did he become Captain too fast? It’s easy to think of, well, we’ll look through a place in the story – without giving anything in the story away – where someone can look at him sideways and go, "you sure became Captain fast!" And for anyone to say that, whether we do or not, that’s just an example, I’m not saying if for sure we’ll do that, you can do those kinds of things and suddenly your criticism is part of the movie, and it’s kind of fun if you’re a fan to see that incorporated.

On more character moments (via  ComingSoon):

[Fans] wanted more character time with everybody," he adds, "and, because that was an origin story for ‘Star Trek,’ everyone had to come in at a certain point. Now everyone is going to be there from the beginning, so they’re going to get that.

…finally Orci on ‘Budgineering’

Everyone sure hated engineering. They thought it looked like a brewery, which it was. I’ll pass that on to J.J. [Abrams] and see what he says.


Orci listening to fan feedback – including the negative reaction to the use of a Budweiser brewery to stand in for engineering on the USS Enterprise

UPDATE: Still scripting + expects fall release + ‘dares’ JJ to direct

The ComingSoon erroneously states the first draft is complete, but the writer did say he felt like they had "all the time in the world" compared to the first film when they had complete the script ahead of the WGA strike. And in another interview at the same event, Orci tells Collider "We’re in the middle of writing it and hopefully we’ll be shooting in a few months." He also noted that if (as has been recently reported) Paramount wants to shoot the film in the fall the team will "be ready". Orci also had this to say on if JJ Abrams will be directing the sequel:

I dare J.J. to come back. I dare you J.J. You hear me? Star Trek!

UPDATE 2: Orci: Sequel to be more ‘daring’

Orci also talked to BoxOffice Magazine about how the sequel will be different than the first Trek:

I think we get to be a little bit more daring with the theme. The first one… was kind of Star Trek Zero – how did it all start? Now, they’re all together from the beginning, and so now they’re all going to face I think a theme that is different and potentially more challenging than just they met and they’re kind of facing this force of nature in Nero. So the theme of their family is going to be something great to explore that you don’t get in the first movie.

POLL: What’s your biggest issue?

As it appears Bob is listening, I thought it would be interesting to poll on some of the most commonly heard issues, gripes, complaints, etc. regarding the 2009 Star Trek movie. Even if you love the film, there probably is something that didn’t sit right with you. If so, vote for your biggest issue, or you can vote for “perfect” if you like. Also add your voice below in the comments section, even if you have never done it before. Who knows, maybe the team behind the sequel will listen.

Biggest nitpick/issue with Star Trek 2009

View Results

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Sources: ComingSoon, BoxOffice Magazine, Collider

Comments

1. Harry Ballz - April 2, 2011

We talked, Orci listened! Suh-weet!

2. Vultan - April 2, 2011

To Engineering! The cause of… and solution to… all of life’s problems.

3. davidfuchs - April 2, 2011

Good to hear about the interior… but what about the ship’s exterior? :)

4. Harry Ballz - April 2, 2011

Orci feels they have “all the time in the world”?

Funny, isn’t that exactly what star-crossed lovers say to each other just before one of them dies?

5. Nathan - April 2, 2011

I didn’t mind the engineering set too much. Now the bridge, on the other hand… ;-)

Kudos to Bob Orci for listening to the fandom where applicable. Still rooting for you guys to make a great, character-driven and meaningful Star Trek film…
GO TEAM!

6. Harry Ballz - April 2, 2011

Vultan

I wonder how many people here would know that you’re quoting Homer Simpson?

Well, paraphrasing really……alcohol/brewery/engineering……..me likey!

7. Daniel Broadway - April 2, 2011

If they tweak just a couple of things about the JJprise design, exterior and interior, I will be happy. I know that’s a horrible fanboy thing to say, but even after this long, it just doesn’t sit well with me. It’s 90% awesome, but that last 10% they got wrong with the design just kills it.

8. Hector - April 2, 2011

The one thing – only thing – that bugged me in the movie was engineering. It was pretty distracting having it in a brewery. I hope they fix that in the next movie. Just grab another stage on the lot and build a proper set.

9. schnotty - April 2, 2011

Yes, please blow a large part of the budget on engineering. The giant-ass intermix chamber from the sketches that appeared on the blu-ray extras will be fine, thanks. :)

10. Vultan - April 2, 2011

#6

Thanks, Harry! But keep the alcohol talk on the QT. Rex Banner may be listening….

11. Tom E. - April 2, 2011

The Enterprise is too big. It was ok to make her a little bigger than the original but making her larger than a Galaxy Class starship? That was a little much. It’s an easy ignore though since the Bridge and its window/view screen make her more inline with the Refit Constitution.

12. TrekDude - April 2, 2011

JJ. Get you some extra cash from the Paramount coffers….find a soundstage….buy a crap-load of paint and wood….get some grips and carpenters….draw up some plans, and make us THE MOST AWESOME ENGINEERING ROOM WE’VE EVER SEEN!!!!

Love ya!

TrekDude

13. Jon L. Staples - April 2, 2011

Ya, engineering was sad. You have a brand new movie. Special effects that makes it look like Spock goes from engineering, into a turbo lift, to the bridge. But was just green screened on the bridge the whole time *SICK*. A great story line, and a Motorcycle to kill for. And then you get into the best part of the ship, engineering. First second I saw it, I thought they were joking. The worst set ever. Worst choice ever. Sad Sad Sad. At least the ship has ample necells.

Don’t get me started on the Phasers. Cheap plastic crap designs. The rest of movie was awesome, the rest of the ship was awesome and made me look past it all. I miss NCC-1701 Refit/A/D engine room.

14. Brian Denham - April 2, 2011

ENGINEERING–
If you are upset they filmed it in a brewery I suggest you don’t listen to, or read any technical details of how they made it, because if you go into it without knowing that, it looks brillaint on screen.

I remember the magic joy I felt seeing Kirk run into Engineering to get Uhura and wondering what the giant radar dishes were, and when he found Uhura, thinking they must be used to monitor subspace communications or something.

When I later found out they were filmed in the Bud plant, I thought that was an impressive set and trick. I felt the magic of cinema in my 40 year old bones that I have not felt since a child. GOOD ON THEM!!

YOUNG CAPTAIN–
I think about this a lot.

It’s funny that Uhura was assigned to the Farragut at first and was reassigned to the Enterprise. Why? Because Farragut took command of his ship at the age of 11 during the Battle Of 1812! He served on that ship as Captain after his Captain was killed. He continued to serve in the Navy until the Civil War when his actions as an Admiral for the Union led to the defeat of the Confederacy.

The point being; some men are born to be leaders. I served in the Marines, sometimes you can see it in people. Some leaders are just born. Kirk has that. kirk knows what’s right. kirk is a genius level something or other as Pike described him. Kirk has that innate ability to make that command decision and I found that accurately portrayed in the new movie.

I like that some characters may question it in the next movie. I like that Kirk may have a chance to show them why he is who he is. plus, with Spock prime telling Starfleet Command that his Jim Kirk is a natural leader and his mind-meld showed him the moxie of new Kirk how could Starfleet not trust his opinion?

15. Michelle - April 2, 2011

What, no option for the lens flares? lol (I actually loved the lens flares, for what it’s worth.) I didn’t really have a problem with engineering either. *shrug*

16. Jeff - April 2, 2011

About Engineering…I understand J.J.’s idea, where the lower levels of the ship are dirty and gritty while the command levels are clean and shiny (inspired by “Titanic”)…but Starfleet vessels aren’t supposed to be cruise ships. I would expect much more continuity in the look, like real aircraft carriers or destroyers have, if you’ve toured them.

Also, when I first watched the movie, I was actually confused for a moment because it’s obvious that some of the lower-deck stuff isn’t on a ship – it’s not cramped. It’s equipment set up on a flat cement floor with a high ceiling, so I thought for a second that these people running around were on a planet. Take a tour on any navy ship, there’s never a lot of room.

17. JP Saylor - April 2, 2011

I think everything on that list in the poll with the exception of the Spock/Uhura romance, is what was wrong with that movie. I mean, I enjoyed it, it’s fun to watch, but all my friends felt like they were watching Star Wars and not Star Trek. And they don’t even watch Star Trek. lol

Advice for the new Trek gang, fix the crap you screwed up in the first one.

~Peace and chicken grease.

18. davidfuchs - April 2, 2011

@15

There’s something to be said for having the natural lens flares (usually you have to use polarizing lenses, adjust the intensity of the lights, or just move the camera to avoid them in shooting a traditional movie.)

What I think I and the vast majority of people object to is *purposefully pointing mirrors at the camera to create more lens flares than has ever been seen in real life or in twelve movies.* It’s not aiding the “real” aspect then, it’s just making things hard to see.

19. Naver Drol - April 2, 2011

Star Trek 2009 split me in two. Half of me felt like Trek finally got the big budget treatment it always deserved. It absolutely needed a sense of humor, and a shot of adrenaline. Unfortunately that shot seemed to come with some unwanted side effects. “Numb tongue”, swollen hands the size of grape fruits, and an over sensitivity to light I have not experienced since the last time my optometrist wanted to dilate my pupils for an eye exam. Yes there is such a thing as too much lens flare.

And while I appreciate the desire the make Trek new and exciting, I do not believe a reboot was necessary. Alternate timelines, changing the back story of the main characters, redesigning the ship, destroying a planet and killing Amanda, were all things that seemed unnecessary to me. I honestly believe this film could have been every bit as successful without any of that. I know that stuff didn’t matter to a lot of people, but it just never seemed to sit right with me. I may be too much of a purist, but I always hoped for a TOS “origin story” which we never really had before. What we got was a TOS “origin story” after a reboot. I know a lot of people are okay with that, but I think it means we will never see a “non-reboot” origin on the big screen and that’s a little disappointing to me.

20. Anthony Pascale - April 2, 2011

i added a poll (and added lens flares to it) Too late for any more additions but i think there is enough

21. Darkthunder - April 2, 2011

My main nitpicks about the previous movie:

Engineering:
Looked too low tech, and “brewery” designed, much because it was actually filmed in a brewery. Perhaps a scene involving a somewhat refitted Enterprise (internally), involving Scotty entering the redesigned/modernised Engineering room ?

Bridge:
Too many lens flare generators. Can we please cut back on these in any and ALL scenes in the next movie?

Ship:
From certain reports, the Enterprise is larger than even the Galaxy and Sovereign Classes from 100 years in the future (2258 vs ~2370). Maybe have the visual effects be a little more consistent with how big the ship itself is supposed to be, as well as other locales on the ship, such as the giant shuttlebay? Or do you really expect us all to believe, that this Enterprise is so much larger than the TMP-era movie Enterprise, which shares virtually identical saucer design (right down to the 2-deck window layout on the rim) ?

Now as for positives:
Battle with the Narada, crewmembers being sucked into space… silence. PERFECT. Space is a very silent place, there should be very little if any sounds. I realize some audio is required since it’s a movie, and would get boring otherwise. But the way the sound faded out was perfectly done.

22. henry hollaway - April 2, 2011

Yeah to be honest I didnt realize they were in engineering until they were like “hey btw this is engineering”, in even the original motion picture they had that super long warp core and you were like okay thats engineering.

23. John Trumbull - April 2, 2011

My biggest problem was the design of the new Enterprise. It looked lopsided to me. JJ’s team should study the classic TOS and Movie Enterprises some more and notice how the proportions balanced each other on the original ship. It followed the Golden Ratio, and that was a big reason why it was so appealling.

But yes, revising the brewery Engineering Section would be a HUGE step in the right direction.

24. John Trumbull - April 2, 2011

BTW, Robert — Thanks SO much for coming here and listening to our opinions like this! I know you’ve got 10,000 different factors that determine what goes into the movie, but it’s nice that our voices are being heard.

25. Pensive's Wetness - April 2, 2011

when they (Kirk and Scotty) appeared, was it main engineering or Impulse Engineering?

26. Sloan47 - April 2, 2011

While I wasn’t thrilled with Engineering, I can’t say I’d say it was an issue with me. It was a fun movie and I loved it.

27. SarshSparrow - April 2, 2011

The rapid promotion kind of bothered me. He was literally still a student.

I would really love a scene where another Starfleet captain / enemy won’t take him seriously (and promptly is proved wrong / gets their butts’ kicked of course).

I guess the design problems never really bothered me because this was pretty much my first foray into Star Trek.

28. trojan 64 - April 2, 2011

I respect that Mr. Orci loves Star Trek and listens to the fandom and takes his job as a writer very seriously, but I am a little weary of his propensity to paint shortcomings/ poor decisions about character and/or plot as “opportunities” to explore in future stories.

29. Sora - April 2, 2011

The Spock Uhura romance was one of the biggest sore spots for me. I remember JJ saying that Spock needed someone to hug an comfort him after the death of his mother and the destruction of Vulcan but it was just too out of charter for him reboot or not. There is no way in hell he would have made out with Uhura on the transporter pad in front of other people even if it might have been the last time they saw each other, maybe a Vulcan kiss would have been much more appropriate. Also, the relationship itself was simply not believable on any level, it seemed like it was an idea thrown in at the last minute like you guys had no idea what to do with Uhura other than to make her someone’s girlfriend and picking Spock as her lover because hey no would one see that coming. It was a cheap twist that didn’t do anything for either character. Please get rid of it, pass it off as friends kissing in the heat of the moment or something since you can’t take it back completely. Seriously you did Uhura a huge disservice by making her just Spock’s girlfriend because when we saw her she was someone pretty to look at or she was adding to Spock’s story and didn’t stand out on her own like she deserves.

30. Jordan - April 2, 2011

Engineering (and other parts of the ship) for sure. It should have been kept simple and more loyal to some of the source material.

I thought Vulcan being destroyed was a clever twist, and i’m totally fine with it. But i would like to see some fallout of that in the next movie. Wouldn’t a founding world getting obliterated one day and starfleet being helpless to save it send shockwaves though the federation? I could see some planets pulling out.

31. Luke Forester - April 2, 2011

Small problem I had was the new Enterprise. Not the look of it, I liked it quite a bit, it was just the seemingly pointless decision to make it huge. I know we’ll never seen the new Enterprise next to the Enterprise D, but but making this ship larger than that just seemed a pointless change. It served no purpose as one of those (smart) changes made to give Trek a bit more mass-market appeal. The only people who would notice would be the Trekkies, so why change it?

32. Jon L. Staples - April 2, 2011

*since someone of importance is reading*

I feel the need to comment on the reboot. I grew up watching every bit of Star Trek I could, over and over. I understand the reboot. No one is going to flock to the movies to watch what’s already been done. I think it was smart. But it leaves questions. At least it did for me.

So now that we have old Spock, who knows everything about the old timeline, new technologies and occurrences which happened. What exactly does he share with this new timeline, due to not having to worry about disrupting the timeline? Since nothing changes for Enterprise…

Currently we now have:

Kahn floating around out there. Obvious question, what to do about him? If we do nothing, what if someone else finds him, and exploits his intellect? He’s not angry at Kirk yet. Boy the things you could do with him.

Voyager 6 is hurling towards earth still. What to do about that? With no Ilea or Decker, will the probe tantrum out of control? Knowing the transmit codes is only the first step, who does it join with now?

What about the whale probe? Unless they slingshot around the sun as they did in the first series, no whales.

Do they still slingshot around the sun the first time around and help that Nasa launch?

Is Data still made? Does he go back through time and leave his head in SF? One would think that if he doesn’t and never meets Guinan, and she doesn’t meet Picard, that wouldn’t that change things before even Enterprise.

How will this all affect the mirror universe? I won’t go into that.

Since we changed the timeline, does that affect Q? Won’t he be miffed that his favorite human’s timeline has been changed? I’d think he’d be unaffected, and pissed about the waste of time he’s endured.

I mean I could go on and on, because I’m a huge Trek nerd. But I think my point is made.

*back to what this article is really about*

33. Anthony Pascale - April 2, 2011

since the original article went up two more wondercon orci reports came out so article has two updates above, including bob talking about being
‘daring’ in the sequel

34. Carrie - April 2, 2011

Voted Spock/Uhura.

I get that Spock isn’t the same as the one from the Prime verse, but it is the epitome of illogical for a professor to sleep with a student, doubly so when the professor is also relatively high up the chain of command given that he’s the XO of the fleet’s flagship.

So yeah. I just can’t buy it.

(Engineering annoyed me too, but this was a much bigger gripe.)

35. Buzz Cagney - April 2, 2011

What do I win for picking the Top Scoring Nitpick?
Yep, its that whole Spock/Uhura thing for me.
Shame we can’t multi-choice though- Engineering was very nasty. But not quite so nasty as seeing Uhura chasing some Vulcan tail just as he was at his most vulnerable! Or using her womanly wiles to get herself assigned to the Enterprise! Cynical woman!
I still would though, obviously!

36. Buzz Cagney - April 2, 2011

lol and there we see a difference of perspective from a man and a woman- proving the Spock/Uhura romance worked on no level! It does prove that, doesn’t it? lol

37. Danpaine - April 2, 2011

You missed, “Scotty was mis-cast.”

Really. I loved 09′, but we need Scotty more like he was…a badass.

38. Jon L. Staples - April 2, 2011

Ya, Jealousy is watching Neytiri get her some Vulcan loving. But Trip got him some too. It’s not unheard of.

39. MJ - April 2, 2011

Thanks Bob for listening. It is really exciting that our feedback may be helping with the new movie!!!!!

40. moon_watcher99 - April 2, 2011

I’ll be honest, I had very few problems with the new movie. In fact, when it comes to the design, my nit has nothing to do with the interior sets at all, but with the hull design – I couldn’t stand (and still can’t, really) the new nacelles. My biggest problem was the whole Spock/Uhura thing. To me, it just seems like they’re trying to beat the idea into our heads with a sledgehammer. And I’m not really sure I buy the whole idea anyway – there really didn’t seem to me to be a valid reason why any of that was taking place. It just seems too forced. Also, on a *very* minor side note, as someone who has actually read the novel as well, I feel that they rather limited Kirk’s character. They make a big deal about his intelligence when Pike’s trying to recruit him, but several of the scenes (most notably the confrontation with Spock over the cheating) really undermined any attempt to show his intelligence. Things made a great deal more sense in the book…

41. Danpaine - April 2, 2011

Oh. Voted the Kirk Rapid-Promotion thing.

42. Danpaine - April 2, 2011

Scotty. More Serious.

43. Trip - April 2, 2011

Don’t get me wrong. I love the movie. But if we are nitpicking, the transporting of Kirk and Scotty from the planet or moon (where young Spock had dumped Kirk and Nero had dumped Spock Prime) onto the Enterprise, which had been traveling at Warp 6 or something like that (maybe faster) away from there for quite some time, was pretty ridiculous.

44. JonBuck - April 2, 2011

Engineering made me think of the MST3k riffing of Space Mutiny. Very much a bad thing. I’ve seen the concept sketches they had planned originally but Paramount wouldn’t give them the money for.

Build it for the sequel, guys.

32: A lot of those things bother me as well, but I don’t think Spock Prime will worry too much about changing the timeline now.

45. Tristen - April 2, 2011

@ orci and kurtzman my only gripe was the bottom side of the enterprise saucer felt rather naked without the NCC-1701 decaling being on the bottom of the saucer, it honestly looks weird directly under the deflector. but thats my only gripe, other then that, i wish she we were real, kid love to take’er for a spin around the block (aka our solar system)

46. Harry Ballz - April 2, 2011

Spock Prime will be busy running the top casino on Risa in the sequel.

It’ll be like Casablanca, except in this case, everybody comes to Spock’s!

47. Bill Peters - April 2, 2011

So cool he considers us an Integral part of the Process, Bob and Team you rock!

48. Bill Peters - April 2, 2011

I would say Engineering, Like to see Nurse Chapel on Screen. More Character Moments, More Easter Eggs in the film for Trek Fans.

49. Jon L. Staples - April 2, 2011

Good point Trip, forgot about that. Even the Enterprise-D Had a limit on transporters of like 40,000K. All of a sudden the time line changes and we can transport people millions of miles away with just a formula? Shoot, that should have been the first point I made. Bravo Trip!

50. Second Gen Fan! - April 2, 2011

For the most part ’09 was great. But engineering shouldn’t be bigger than the entire ship! Come on! And we need to see the actual warp engine, not just a ton of pipes.Other than that, just cut down on the lens flares, and you have a good movie.

51. Jon L. Staples - April 2, 2011

Not to mention Scotty materializing in part of the engine, and kirk is running around trying to free him. This felt like it was a task meant for the *if there was one* video game. But better put it in the movie because it’s a task to complete in the game. That’s how it felt to me. Weird time filler.

52. Mark_F - April 2, 2011

nuKirk’s commendation and command at an early age could be a source of conflict and drama. Say it gives him an inflated ego and overconfidence that gets knocked down by an incident he screws up or doesn’t handle well. Which makes him erratic and take extreme risks, leading to another lecture from Bones: “And as ships doctor I have the authority to relieve the captain of command”…and such.

53. Tom Olive - April 2, 2011

14. Brian Denham …Uh…no, I never read where or how the engineering set was to be. But when I finally saw the movie, I whispered to my wife then and there, before I knew ANYTHING,…”That looks like a freaking brewery with lights being projected on tanks. I didn’t really know it was really filmed in a brewery though.

54. Jon L. Staples - April 2, 2011

Well, if I haven’t been filtered out by now, lens flare and camera shaking was perfect. Made it more real for me. The cinematography was epic. If it made you feel queasy because of the ship shaking or lights from the console being in your eye’s, it’s suppose to. My two cents on that.

How do you expect Scotty to sit still after being sent to that ice ball for duty. I mean, I never liked Porthos, so that Scotty got rid of him… Right on.

55. Buzz Cagney - April 2, 2011

As for Kirk being too young, well, my main problem with Kirk wasn’t his age it was his totally different backstory.
I’m just not convinced that Kirk would have gone from being studious and quite serious, to rebellious and a bit of a wild-child and yet still have ended up in the same place.
I’m intrigued to see if they can answer that.
I won’t buy into it, though, if all we are going to get is someone saying ‘wow, you used to be so rebellious and such a wild-child, but look at you now, all grown up. Got a uniform and your own starship and everything’.

The emotional scene’s sounding Kirk’s birth were terrific, but its left an unfortunate legacy surrounding the characters ultimate truth.

56. ML31 - April 2, 2011

Overall I really liked the movie… But here are my nit picks…

Not a huge fan of the redesign of the Big E. Didn’t like the neck swooping all the way to the rear of the lower hull, mainly.

Hated the use of the brewery for Engineering. It just looked terrible. The old power plant they used for the Kelvin looked better. But I wouldn’t recommend doing a redress of that either… How about budgeting some of the money for a cool looking engineering set?

I felt they played a little too fast and lose with galactic geography.

This also leads into the idea of the 10 billion mile transport. I sort of thought the transporter was limited. Certainly not more than 1 A.U. The Big E had to have been a billion miles away by they time they were beamed over… I asked about this when Orci answered fan Q’s here and I don’t think he understood the question because his answer was that Spock brought back future tech. But even in TNG’s time the transporter couldn’t beam you from one start system to the next….

57. James - April 2, 2011

Another little complaint – Please bring back the original red alert klaxon!!

58. Ben - April 2, 2011

If girls pit fighting over a poster of Spock at #SDCC is any indication, the Spock/Uhura romance is the only reason many went to see the film.

59. JP Saylor - April 2, 2011

Can’t we have a ‘All of these things’ option on the poll?

XD

60. Andy Patterson - April 2, 2011

I guess everyone will cite the “if you don’t have anything nice to say….” rule with me so I shan’t say anything. Except, how much more daring can you be than most of what they did last movie?

61. Llin - April 2, 2011

Not enough ladies! I understand that for the first movie they had to get the core team in place, but it is a bit ridiculous. Come on, this time let’s get some Chapel and Rand in there at least!

62. Jon L. Staples - April 2, 2011

ML31 Good point. It seemed like it only took them 20 min to get to Vulcan. It would take NX-01 about 2 weeks at 4.9 or so. Granted NCC-1701 is a warp 7 *I think it caps there* ship. I don’t think it would take only 20 min to get to Vulcan even at warp nine.

Maybe my ST Nerd math and facts are off on all that. But the point is made.

63. Jon L. Staples - April 2, 2011

Looks like people stopped messaging. Hope I helped and wasn’t just annoying. Goodnight.

**End Transmission**

64. Buzz Cagney - April 2, 2011

Its the brewery, Jon @62. You know when you get drunk, time seems to run at strange rates, yes?…….

eg. ‘Wow, I thought that was 12.00 Midnight, buts its still only Midday?’
We’ve all been there.

Well its the same with beer cooled Warp Engines. Two days can seem like twenty minutes.

65. Neumann - April 2, 2011

Honestly, I don’t mind the brewery section that much… you are dealing with a lot of fuel in liquid form, gotta put it somewhere, right? (And I know the Enterprise has a Matter/Antimatter reactor, but there’s got to be more to it than that). And since we spent so little time in engineering anyway, it’s totally feasible to think there’s parts we didn’t see before.

I appreciate the fact that they’re thinking about the fact that Kirk became Captain fast, but it should be a story point and not a wink to the audience… there’s got to be some problems this could cause that would be fun to tackle.

Other than that, go nuts, I’m very keen on the idea of making massive changes to the universe and taking bold chances. Whether they work or not, it’s what Star Trek has been needing for a long time.

66. Hunter - April 2, 2011

I actually loved every single second of this movie. I’ve watched it a dozen times, bought DVD and even Blu-Ray so I an watch it at a friend’s house who owns the machine.
You guys made me a Star Trek fan, Kirk and Spock are my favorites, so definitely the only problem I got is the Uhura/Spock thing… pleaaaase have them break up beofre the next one! She is too emotional and prone to drama for such a logical, yet conflicted Vulcan… please develop Kirk/Spock more on this one, the original duo was pretty epic!

67. raddestnerd - April 2, 2011

Best Trek had moral dilemma to resolve with investigating true mystery with tech, adventure, humor, and drama that revealed the brighter side of humanity.

Star Trek (2009) traded many of these for brainless action imho.

My fave Trek films:
1) First Contact
2) Undiscovered Country
3) Generations

68. Trekee - April 2, 2011

It wasn’t so much that engineering was a brewery, it just didn’t look like engineering – the busy scenes where Kirk goes to find Uhuru just looked like there was no design – the Enterprise is vast, it doesn’t need cramped areas like that.

So when they went there, then back to actual sets, it really jarred, and took me out the film.

I just think that everything else was so stylised it felt really out of place. But you can’t blame people for trying something different.

69. Ian K - April 2, 2011

Hahah What a cool guy!

to Bob Orci:

I doubt if you have any influence over this, but if we could get some more TOS-like Props in this, you would make a prop fanatic very happy haahah. If Pike is in it, you should totally make sure he has something like the Laser Pistol in “The Cage”

Thanks for being awesome!

70. Buzz Cagney - April 2, 2011

#67 you cite brainless action as a demerit and yet place First Contact as your favourite Trek movie?
That was the first Trek action movie imho.

71. reb - April 2, 2011

I’d like a little more attention to actual zoology. A giant bright red lizard-like spider creature in an artic wasteland that works against any reasonable adaptive evolution. At least put some fur on the darn thing.

72. Iva - April 2, 2011

Get Kirk to prove his worth, being a captain is earned by much more than a lucky set of coincidences. Just calling him a genius does nothing if all we see is him being a jackass.
And make it seem more like what they get is the result of actual effort and not just because in the main universe they are successful so destiny makes sure it just happens all over again no matter how undeserving they are.
That whole Spock / Uhura affair we saw in the last movie makes him fail as a bondmate, as an academy instructor, as the first officer on duty, as an adult, as a vulcan and as a human.
Or to put it simply – as a complete character.

And please, I know this is a mistake often made for a while now and not just abrams one, but…. don’t make the vulcans look like pointed eared humans. Please.
Spock was grey-greenish, not a white baby ass with rosy undertone. Same goes for other vulcans.

73. Buzz Cagney - April 2, 2011

#71 how do we know Nero didn’t drop the Red Lizard there just to terrorise Spock? He was a bit of a mishievous character you know.
He enjoyed whoopy cushions too.

74. Trip - April 3, 2011

I’d like to see Admiral Archer in the sequel. Just don’t kill him in a lame way like Trip on Enterprise or Kirk in Generations.

75. sir_al - April 3, 2011

Borg!………

76. Buzz Cagney - April 3, 2011

#75 Bored!…….

77. MaoMan - April 3, 2011

Why is there no option for ALL OF THE ABOVE? :)

I can live with the sets and the 3D models, because those are easily changed. The bigger problems for me as a fan are the things that just seemed like silly and implausible plot devices. (e.g. The transport from Vulcan’s ice moon to a moving vessel light years away seems lazy and seems to invalidate the need for a starship to travel the galaxy.)

But lets be clear, Star Trek is not alone in these problems. You can look at Tron Legacy and see the same problem. “They couldn’t find Flynn?? He was like a couple miles off the grid. How hard could they have been looking..?”)

Most of all, I would like a VERY strong, well-defined villain with a clear purpose. Khan was a strong villain because the character was more than a match for the heroes and because of the quality of the actor playing him. Watch the dinner scene from “Space Seed.” The interplay between Nimoy, Shatner and Montalban was perfect. That short scene crystallized the personalities and intentions of the characters and the inevitability of their clash. In Star Trek, Nero character was too lightly written and came off as a plot device. Most of his backstory was relayed in an expository fashion and therefore had little weight.

The sad thing is that something has to give. Just as all its other incarnations, some of the bridge characters just can’t be developed fully in the film. The focus needs to be on a few of the characters and the villain. Hopefully the writers, cast and crew can build on the success of the first film and deliver something with even greater depth.

78. Iva - April 3, 2011

I can’t believe only 8% voted for Kirk & crew’s rapid promotions.

79. Dr W - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura (yes, yes, this is coming from a girl and for the last time, romance was NOT the reason most of us went to see the movie). Ugh, please, just, no.

I loved the movie because it was fun and it really did feel like a breath of fresh air for Trek, but… that pairing just makes no sense. No, there were no hints of them in TOS (ooh, the FLIRTING scene where she makes a joke and Spock completely ignores her/puts her down! Ooooh, he didn’t leave her on the floor when she was thrown off her station by the blast! ROMANCE!!!!1!!1one) and where was T’Pring in all this? I could believe she died on Vulcan but it was implied that the pair was together before that, so… what the hell? Uhura is an awesome badass female, she could be way more than the love interest for a main character. And for Spock to act like that was just very illogical and OOC. Remeber Amok Time?

On a potentially awesome note and if you really want to have action in that department it would be fun to see Kirk have to seduce someone for information like he used to do all the time in TOS. I was sad that part with Gaila got cut out of the film (though not as sad as the locket scene! That would have been amazing).

Still, we really appreciate you listening to our opinion, bob!

80. Taylor - April 3, 2011

I would like for at least one of the ***main*** characters to be something other than heterosexual and for that to be explicitly acknowledged. It’s the 23rd century there (and the 21st here, for petes sake) — it’s way past time for this.

81. Areli - April 3, 2011

Love how Spock/Uhura is winning the poll, then second is the brewery deck.

82. j_m - April 3, 2011

Christ, how can you make me just pick one of those choices? I really enjoyed the movie, but
*the brewery, err “Engineering” looked like a brewery and was a big disappointment.
*I didn’t necessarily mind the Spock/Uhura romance, but it seemed extraneous and possibly an attempt by the creators to avoid Kirk/Spock speculation.
*Ship Redesign: hideous. Seriously, 50’s-style fins on the warp nacelles? It looked squat and chunky and embarassing. I get that every incarnation of Star Trek has to have their own ship design, sometimes more than one, but it was a major disappointment. That said, it wouldn’t make sense for Star Fleet to redesign it while they’re trying to rebuild the fleet, so we’re stuck with it. Also, the bridge looks like an Apple store. That and you can’t look at for all the intentional lens flares blinding the audience. Can the bridge crew even work, or are they constantly squinting due to lighting problems?
*Destroying Vulcan: boo for forced pathos! You murdered most of Spock’s race and his mom. Actually, the handling of all women in it was pretty bad (Uhura is now a sassy girlfriend instead of a serious career woman, Winona is absentee while whoever Frank possibly abuses young!Kirk, and Amanda gets killed so Spock can be sad)
*Lens Flares: see above
*Nero: low-rent Kahn. He could have been great, but he was barely given any character development. Eric Bana worked with what he had, but it could have been so much better.
*Hoth, err, Delta Vega: the whole sequence was extraneous and ridiculous. Kick Kirk off the ship, beam him back on, it was all because you couldn’t figure out how else to get him to meet Spock!Prime. Cloverfield is missing it’s monster, BTW
*My biggest issue: just please remember that you’re making a reboot of Star Trek The Original Series, not Star Wars (I love both series, but Kirk =/= Luke Skywalker, please). It very much was the plot of Star Wars: A New Hope with Star Trek characters pasted on. You already have three seasons worth of Original Series episodes and many movies to spark ideas, so while sci fi series can cross pollinate, please please hew a little closer to Trek for the follow up.

That said, the casting was overall really good, and all the actors did great jobs. Pike was great.

83. stargazer - April 3, 2011

I see the Spock and Kirk shippers came out in force to place Spock/Uhura in the lead. Funny how that works. Talk about skewing the polls with an obvious agenda.

84. Rusty0918 - April 3, 2011

OK Mr. Orci, here’s another one. I’ve been putting this up for you, and it’s not on the issue list.

I’ll still throw my two cents in regarding the addition of another main female crewmember: chief of security on the Enterprise, one of course who wears pants (no miniskirt for her). I know there are a lot of women who criticized the last movie for not updating the female roles properly. (And yes, I know for a fact some have no problem with this.)

85. Iva - April 3, 2011

They could have had Number One, a strong female for a change. The movie does happen during Pike’s career after all, made no sense to just pretend she doesn’t exist.

86. j_m - April 3, 2011

@ Rusty0918: Too True, the creators didn’t mind shifting away from the Original Series in so many ways, but they kept the 1960s mini-skirts. Also, they misplaced several female characters (where’s Chapel? Number One?), reduced one to a love interest (in a questionable relationship with a superior officer and teacher), killed off Amanda so her son could have emotional motivation, and made Winona practically disappear after her riveting first scene.

In the next movie, please treat the women with more respect and equity.

87. Sharra - April 3, 2011

“Seriously you did Uhura a huge disservice by making her just Spock’s girlfriend because when we saw her she was someone pretty to look at or she was adding to Spock’s story and didn’t stand out on her own like she deserves.”

I see this argument used so often. But Isn’t it in itself a sexist viewpoint? Just because Uhura is in love with Spock, you reduce her to the role of “love interest”. But it’s a double standard. Spock doesn’t become reduced to the role of “love interest” by being in love with Uhura, he still gets to be his own character in everyone’s eyes. Does he get more screen time? Yes, but that’s only because he’s one of the two major characters.

And it’s not like her relationship with Spock takes away from the fact that she’s still the communications officer of the Enterprise and doing what she’s supposed to do. In fact, in this movie she gets to do more than she used to. I mean, in the original series, the character of Uhura – though groundbreaking – was essentially in the background doing the “hailing frequencies open” thing every single episode. In some of the TOS movies she was STILL in the background (for instance look at Star Trek III – she’s barely in it!!)

In the new movie, Uhura does her job, plays a greater role in the plot, gets more character development than she did before – even if you ignore the romance angle – yet people conveniently ignore that fact and insultingly claim that she’s been reduced to being “Spock’s girlfriend”.

It’s total bullshit.

88. Bulka - April 3, 2011

the “new” Romulans is missing form the list…. please please please don’t change the Klingons!

89. Iva - April 3, 2011

Imagine emo Klingons…..

90. Amanda - April 3, 2011

I voted on Spock & Uhura

There were many things I loved about this film, but I hated the relationship between Spock and Uhura. Reasons:

* It was out of character for Spock – kissing on the transporter pad…really?
* re Professor/Cadet: it crossed a moral line I don’t think Spock would
* Chain of Command issues: Spock’s two ranks above her, and as FO is her immediate superior
* The scene in the shuttle-hangar made Spock looked hen-pecked (I know she was supposed to be using logical arguments to persuade him, but overall she came off as highly pushy and him as weak)
* Uhura should be a BAMF, not Spock’s arm candy

The scene in the turbolift in the turbolift made me cringe, the one in the transporter room had me facepalming. Both distracted me from what was, otherwise, a fine film that gladdened an old Trekkie’s heart.

91. Fizzbin - April 3, 2011

I loved the reboot the night it premiered, and I still do. As a huge TOS fan, I was quite impressed by how true the film was to the series/characters in most ways (especially considering the very difficult task set before the writers, J.J., etc.). Any minor flaws in characterization or plot were easily forgiven, for me anyway (I am of course aware of how harshly other hardcore fans tend to criticize it); the movie was truly wonderful in so many other respects that I see no reason to dwell on the not-so-awesome elements. And many plot elements and character behaviors that deviated from what we know of TOS were not only completely understandable due to the changes in the timeline, but quite intriguing as well.

HOWEVER, there is one plot development that, no matter how hard I try, I just can’t get past, and that is the romantic relationship between Spock and Uhura. It is a pairing that simply makes no sense canonically. Even a deep friendship between them is stretching it (though I find that idea much more forgivable, even if it is still a level of interaction between them never reached in the series/movies). I know that it is pointless to hope that the next film will end (or begin, even better) with Spock and Uhura as friends only. I understand that even if the writers really stop to evaluate the interactions between the characters in canon and decide that friendship is the better option, it would be very difficult to separate them at this point. After all, what sense does it make (in most cases) to begin a romantic relationship between two characters only to basically say “oops, nevermind” in the next one? But ultimately, which is the more difficult and canonically dangerous task – ending a budding (and sort of awkwardly founded) romance between Spock and Uhura, or attempting to form the deep, intriguing, epic, truly famous friendship between Spock and his new captain while Spock is (I assume) focused on a new romantic attachment? How, as well, can the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship/dynamic come together as marvelously as it did in TOS if Spock does not begin to understand and even accept his human half from his interactions with these two companions (mostly Kirk, of course), rather than a girlfriend? These two relationships (the Kirk-Spock friendship and the K-S-Mc trifecta) are the only elements that I am truly worried about as a result of this Spock/Uhura romance. 

I think that, in terms of writing, this next film is in good hands, and I’d like to hope that, even if the romance stays and develops further, they will take great effort to write it with care and give priority to the far more important elements and character relationships. Those things must take precedence if these new reboot films truly seek to portray (or contribute to the development of) the characters we know and love. And unlike Scotty, the Spock we know from canon would never have entered a romantic relationship with Uhura, no matter how much he came to respect her or enjoy her companionship. That is another concern I have, actually – if we are expected to suddenly accept a Spock/Uhura pairing, what about Scott’s romantic future? 

There are many, many reasons why Kirk and Spock form one of the most famous duos in fictional history. As we can observe by a great number of episodes in the series and most if the TOS films, they were “two parts of a whole” (as Roddenberry put it), each the “nobler half” of the other (as Kirk put it). They knew each other “better than anyone in the universe” (Kirk again). In contrast, the relationship between Spock and Uhura, awesome as she was and as much as they cared for each other, never even crossed over into a notable friendship for reasons that, if we really know their characters (and contrary to certain claims I often encounter), have nothing to do with what television shows could or could not portray in the sixties.

To the writers, if they happen to read this semi-coherent rambling: I trust you and respect you, as many Trek fans do. But please, don’t let the important friendships that everyone expects to see develop be lessened or sacrificed for a romantic affiliation that never even almost occurred in canon (unless you count a brief but forever dismissed consideration on Roddenberry’s part). The fans who truly know and love TOS will appreciate adherence to canon (i.e. Spock’s true nature which would preclude romantic interest in Uhura and the future Uhura/Scott relationship), and the viewers/fans who are invested in Spock/Uhura are surely not the majority, and will eventually accept whatever you must do if you handle it properly. Either way, and despite my own concerns, I believe that you guys will give us a great sequel, and I wish you luck on the (surely) difficult road ahead!

92. Will_H - April 3, 2011

Glad to hear they’re listening. The last movie, while great, seemed to be made by people who know nothing about Star Trek beyond the basics and just knew how to make good movies. Their attitude gives me hope, though, that this next movie will be a big improvement from the last, which was already good. The story in the last movie, in my opinion, could have stayed virtually the same and with a few technical details and set designs fixed the movie would have been much more satisfying to us Trekkies (not Trekkers) I liked the idea of making the engineering section different, I just think the way they did it failed. Looking forward to more details from the next movie.

93. Iva - April 3, 2011

“87. Sharra – April 3, 2011 In the new movie, Uhura does her job, plays a greater role in the plot, gets more character development than she did before ”

She takes off her clothes, makes a scene in public, jumps her academy instructor/ first officer at every occasion, even while the ship is under attack.
At the same time, seventeen years old Chekov does her job – not she
(because she is away – guess doing what?), his own (because it is his job), transporter guy’s job (because he can’t do it right)

…. and you call it “character development”, as if we don’t know her TOS nickname.

94. Aurore - April 3, 2011

Mr Orci,

WHAT THE H*LL WERE YOU THINKING when you decided to include the Spock and Uhura romance in an otherwise decent movie???!!!

More please…

:)

95. stargazer - April 3, 2011

LMBO! The Kirk and Spock shippers are really on a roll. Too funny.

96. Charles E. Pratt, Jr. - April 3, 2011

I loved the 2009 Star Trek movie but I could have SERIOUSLY done without the Spock/Uhura romance. It just felt out of character for both of them.
I thought the destruction of Vulcan was a neat idea and it set forth the feeling that *anything* could happen in this new timeline.
I’m 41 and I’ve followed Star Trek-particularly TOS-since early childhood. The one thing the television show constantly played up was the “strange new worlds” angle. I think that’s one of the reasons I really loved Star Trek. I felt like I was going somewhere new-somewhere exciting-somewhere unexplored and maybe dangerous. If my comments are truly being read and considered by the powers that be, I would ask them to please, please, please take us back to the mission to explore those strange new worlds and to boldly take us where we haven’t gone before!
We have a new timeline, we have the origins out of the way, now let’s get on board and start exploring! You know, Khan and Trelene and Harry Mudd and the gorn and the romulans and the klingons-all great stuff. Really! But we’ve been there, guys! When do we get to do some Star Trekkin? That’s what I want most of all out of this shiny new Trek reboot.

97. Sharra - April 3, 2011

93. Iva

“She takes off her clothes,”

So did Kirk. In fact, he showed more skin. Are you going to complain about that? Or is it always the woman who are criticized for not being sexless beings.

“jumps her academy instructor/ first officer at every occasion,”

Oh, but he doesn’t reciprocate? It’s all HER fault, right?

“At the same time, seventeen years old Chekov does her job – not she
(because she is away – guess doing what?), his own (because it is his job), transporter guy’s job (because he can’t do it right)”

And you’re trying to tell me that she doesn’t do her job in the movie (finding out about the Romulan transmissions, etc.)? Whatever.

98. Chasco - April 3, 2011

Mr Orci, you have missed the point about Kirk’s promotion. It’s not that he’s too young that people have a problem with. It’s that he went from CADET to CAPTAIN in one giant leap. But, hey, it’s done, can’t do anything about it now.
Engineering on the other hand… Dear heaven, please, please fix engineering!

Oh, and I also agree with what #37 said. If Simon Pegg is back on board, please ask him to prove he can act – by NOT being a clown. Let’s see him try to bring the sort of authority to the role that Jimmy Doohan did. Remember that moment in ‘The Way to Eden’ where the engineer on the Bridge is ‘conducting’ along to the “music” and Scotty makes him stop and get back to work with no more than a glance? Get Simon Pegg to make me believe he could do that – because on evidence from the first film, he’d be the idiot doing the conducting.

99. Mattyb.uk - April 3, 2011

I think kirk got promoted to captain quickly because half the fleet got blasted to smithereens by nero.

100. DJT - April 3, 2011

First let me say, I liked the movie. I did some things very well.

Others….not so much. Along with all the minor things that have been said here so far, I must add that my biggest problem with the movie was the Spock Prime did nothing to restore the Prime Universe. Now, I understand the whole principle of multiple universes…yada yada…but I don’t buy it.

If *I* went back in time and accidentally changed the past so that my home planet was destroyed, I would do everything in my power to fix the damn timeline. I couldn’t just sit back and hope there was some branching timeline somewhere out there where everything was bubble gum and roses.

The new time travel philosophy adopted by this movie simply does not jive with previous incarnations. And since Spock Prime originated from the Prime Universe, he should still want to fix the timeline. Just like he did in all those TOS episodes and movies (minus one or two whales).

The fact that he is okay with the destruction of Vulcan at the end of the movie seems off. The second and third movies should be about the restoration of the Prime Universe.

Nuff said.

101. Dr. Cheis - April 3, 2011

Wow, a lot of people don’t like seeing Spock and Uhura together… I say keep it, just because it feels “wrong” and different compared to the Prime universe. It’s a reminder that things here are not the same.

As for Brewengering, I didn’t think it looked like a Brewery. But I didn’t think it looked like Engineering either. I don’t know why they’d need so many pipes on the Enterprise in such an open space. It makes sense if the area is the water filtration room though, but it still seems a bit too large even for that. Regardless, I wouldn’t mind seeing the same place again for the second movie, just with more “future stuff” in the foreground, maybe a hint at a warp core behind a mesh screen.

I worry about how people will react to a “more daring” script though. The last one was daring too. People don’t like daring. They like old and boring and familiar. *sigh*

102. Joe Sidney - April 3, 2011

All I need a reminder of is Bob, Alex and JJ’s great work on ‘Alias’

I have no time to waste time with little issues and will be very satisfied and excited with what they will give us in the second movie, because it will be fantastic.

103. The TOS Purist aka The Purolator - April 3, 2011

They desperately need to recast Scotty. I mean, I love Simon Pegg too, but that doesn’t mean that I’d want to see him in any role given to him. He doesn’t fit in the role as Scotty anymore than Morgan Freeman or Dakota Fanning would.

Get someone who at least has a passing resemblance to Jimmy Doohan, too. And someone who can do a proper Scottish accent.

104. K. O. - April 3, 2011

I’m kind of shocked that the Spock/Uhura thing is the biggest issue with most people. One of the things I always had a problem with in the Prime Universe was that this human/Vulcan hybrid named Spock was always barely human. The idea with Trek 11 was to make Star Trek fresh again and I think it was a great idea to do something a little different with Spock. He’s half human. He’s going to feel. He’s going to love. This is a new universe. Why not have a new Spock?

BTW, it’s not like we’ve never seen superior officers having romantic relationships with subordinates in the past: Picard/Crusher (whatever THAT was), Riker/Troi, Troi/Worf, to name a few. Besides, have you SEEN the new Uhura? Kolinahr be damned… I’m just sayin’.

105. Green Blooded Bastard - April 3, 2011

I’ve heard the “Canon” arguments against Spock and Uhura’s pairing, and quite frankly, canon no longer exists in this broken-off reality, so canon is yet to come, as far as I am concerned. It has yet to be written in this time line.

My personal opinion is, Star Trek is supposed to represent (and take place) at a point in the human condition when we are past bigotry/racism/prejudice for the most part, and Kirk himself has a go with an Orion girl, so I don’t see what the issue is. I thought it sort of represented the notion that all that matters is love itself, and not who was experiencing it. Quite frankly, the Spock of Trek ’09 is still a bit in touch with his emotions so I don’t see why love wouldn’t be one of them. It was refreshing. Besides, in the next picture, it probably wont be emphasized as much anyhow, as the story will focus more on the next adventure as opposed to getting to know them as individuals. We already know they have a relationship, no need to belabor the point, though again, I like it. In real life officers of different rank fall in love. The heart wants what the heart wants, no? Let’s not get hung up on something trivial.

My peeve in the ’09 film was the brewery. Just was, it looked lazy. I think I understand where Mr. Abrams was coming from (that beneath the glitz and flash of a fancy spaceship and the lasers and light speed travel lies the heart of a warrior made of bone and sinew that is the real reason it all happens). If they want a way out of the brewery look, perhaps the picture could open with the Enterprise in dry-dock getting an engine overhaul, because changing the entire look of that engine room would be a tough sell without a really good explanation.

I believe James T. Kirk became the captain of the Enterprise young because James T. Kirk is the captain of the Enterprise. Simple. Spock is his second.

No “silly” Scotty. Not a huge matter, just don’t like silly out of the stalwart, drinking, fighting rough-knuckled engineer. I loved Doohan’s Scotty, I’d like to see a little more of that.

106. Bugs Nixon - April 3, 2011

I hate to pick apart what was one of the best Treks ever, but since you’re putting a gun to my head, here goes.

When I occasionally listen to the movie soundtracks, James Horner is by far the most beautiful. It is a remarkable score.

Even Goldsmith’s score for 5 is wonderful. I just don’t find myself revisiting the 2009 score. It is clever in that it does have that main theme which seems to use parts of the Courage theme yet is new. And Michael Giacchino is a genius.

I just don’t get that stately sailing ship vibe. I know it can slow the movie right down and I’m not asking for slow, but I just think the score makes such a big difference and…

Eh. It didn’t quite do it for me long term. Of course, in the theatre I was a drooling fan boy.

Unconditional love as always.

107. Psyphi - April 3, 2011

I agree that all of the nitpicks above should be fixed. I’d also like to add one more item though. The phaser beams I think look too much like Star Wars blaster bolts. I understand that Abrams wanted it to be more exciting, but if they could make the beams last just a tiny bit longer so that they are a bit more like the original phaser beams, that would be great. The phaser pistols themselves look good though.

108. Bob Tompkins - April 3, 2011

This particular poll should have asked us for up to 5 things that bothered fandom, not just 1. The quick ascendancy to the throne irked me; using a brewery as engineering just plain sucked suds; lensflares not so much, but shakycam always has me leaving the theater with a headache.

Those would be my 3 majors, plus not putting Matt Damon in the Captain’s chair even if they had to adjust the script.

109. Bleh. Shutting up now - April 3, 2011

Re: 105- So something more important than fleshing out the characters (believe it or not relationships/romance do give away the character’s views/perceptions/likes/dislikes away) is a scenery? A brewery-lookin’ room is a bigger thing to bitch about than two characters that really don’t have much in common beside intelligence? Sure, it’s nice for them to re-hash the whole “everyone is diverse wooo” that came with the original Trek, but having romance isn’t the only way to do it (it also makes Uhura seem one dimensional for making out with Spock– a Vulcan, you know, the race that is so hard assed they don’t even like to acknowledge their emotions 99% of the time– in the middle of a work setting).

110. Aurore - April 3, 2011

Mr Orci,

I might have been a little harsh on you, previously. And, I have a feeling that the reason why you have not commented yet, is that you are presently busy wiping away the tears my earlier (thoughtful) comment brought to your eyes.

Understand that I only wish to help.
I expect more from you next time.

(A little) more Spock and Uhura romance will do.

:)

111. captainwilson - April 3, 2011

I didnt find it a problem with kirk becomming captain too fast. It actually does fit well for kirk being the best captain in starfleet. It never really was portrayed well in original cannon how he got the chair at an early age.

However, this time around I really do believe kirk should be tested very hard this time around in the new movie. Not only will it test him as captain but test his crew. As they say a captain is only as good as his crew. So I really think this movie should knock on the notion that taking down the high horse and presenting a sense of humblenessof the human being will play a big part in trek. Kirk isnt invincible, he isnt superman so this will be great to present kirk as a flawed character with human emotion. He is only as good as his crew!

I really do think a good story to test Kirk is having a reimagining of the story “THE CAGE” (the pilot original star trek). I think most of all, Pike should reprise his role and sacrifice his life for the young crew and teach Kirk a powerful lesson in risk, sacrifice , and love for his crew.

The engineering set was horrible, and so was the design of the enterprise. In most of the star trek movies, the ship seemed to change through retrofit, so presenting the crew with an updated enterprise that matches in ways with trek cannon. I also think the uniforms need a repolish and give them a bit of a military edge. I like the red uniforms, perhaps we can make them the crew standard?

112. captainwilson - April 3, 2011

i also agree that the music score was just a jumbled mess. Some parts where good like Neros heavy boom boom booms, but the main title sequence was too over dramatic for what the story really was. I agree, bring in a new conducter who has trek experience.

113. Jack - April 3, 2011

I voted for the Nero stuff, and for respecting the science. In TWOK, the vengeful Trek villain template, Khan’s backstory is given in just a few lines. Yes, that backstory is an entire TV episode, but you don’t have to have seen it for the movie to work. In Star Trek, if it hadn’t been for Bana’s feasting on the scenery, there wouldn’t have been a character at all. He was a device, and not a character the writers seemed to have much interest in.

114. Wytse - April 3, 2011

Think the movie where great.

Why? Because I got the same feeling again when I where watching Star Trek (series) for the very first time. The “this is weird/funny/familiar/new/not-done-before”.

It sure where going fast (everything in the movie) and as an (mostly TNG and Voyager) Trekkie I “missed” the dialog “quality time”.

They got the “Star Trek Feeling” to it… mostly…

Please keep up the positive view of the future! Thats the difference of Star Trek!

As a graphic and multimedia designer I can only say: greatly done! From a design point, from a marketing point, from a movie point…

… and from a Trekkie point!

115. Wytse - April 3, 2011

Ohw and the music where the best! Everymorning I keep “humming” it! Whatever everybody is saying: KEEP Michael Giacchino INTO THE NEXT MOVIE!

Also…. get Hilary Duff in the movie a Janice Rand, for me Star Trek gets even more epic that it can be that way :)

116. Cathy - April 3, 2011

It’s nice to know that in the future, people STILL have a problem with Interracial Relationships as they do today. Even if it was considered ‘in character’, someone would find another argument to say why it’s not right.

Other than that, I have no issue with the movie. It’s because of said movie that I became interested in Star Trek in the first place.

117. Hateya - April 3, 2011

Bless you, Sharra. Some people can’t stand the thought that Spock might one day put his pee pee into a woman who wasn’t specifically chosen by THEM. Never mind that this version of Spock doesn’t need their permission to put his pee pee wherever he pleases. Yes, I’ve used the childish term for the p-word because I wouldn’t want to induce a stroke in anyone.

It appears as though some naysayers are confusing the movie with all the sexually explicit (and well-written) Uhura/Spock fan fiction they secretly read. ;) The movie showed two people with deep feelings for each other. They weren’t bumping pelvises in her bed. It was rather disappointing that Uhura and Spock kept their clothes on in each other’s company.

A relatively chaste kiss with a hand on a woman’s hips = “drying humping”? If so, “drying humping” can’t possibly mean “frottage.”

Judging by this board, nothing would be more daring than MORE Uhura/Spock. While you’re being daring, Boborci, I challenge you to blow up EARTH while you’re at it. Earth simply hasn’t been destroyed enough in Hollywood. Has it ever been? Or was that our moon?

I’m voting perfect! After all, I love beer (Kirin and Orion, not Bud) and I don’t have any hang-ups about instructors and students being in love. Scotty? lens flares? Set designs? Other stuff. I didn’t notice. I was too busy enjoying seeing Trek on the big screen again. More! More!

Daring… I love the sound of that!!!! Bring it!

118. AJ - April 3, 2011

If you’ve ever been to a large brewery before, as I have, the first thing you ask yourself during the scenes on that set is “what are they doing in a brewery?”

My biggest issue with ST09, however, is Uhura’s major ball-drop in the unlikely scenario that she was alone in monitoring the destruction of 47 Klingon warbirds by a giant Romulan ship, and didn’t think she should tell anyone except Gayla. As presented, Uhura is actually partially responsible for the destruction of the fleet at Vulcan.

It also makes Starfleet out to be a bunch of amateurs.

119. Cara - April 3, 2011

A few more female characters and/or screentime for the existing ones would be nice!

120. Darren85 - April 3, 2011

There was some concept art of engineering which looked AMAZING, and I’d hope they get that into the new movie somehow.

The only other points I’d make would be to ease up on the humour… the giant hands gag was a little step too far for me personally, and felt dangerously into “is this a comedy?” moment. I LOVE lenseflares, gives a great filmic looks, but I’d ease up a little next time.

I guess my biggest gripe is over the ship size… they are supposedly way bigger than the original and even the Galaxy-class. If we say Starfleet was inspired by advance tech from the Narada scans, then how will it account for all the other species starships being on a (presumably) similar scale without that info? I understand JJ wanted to increase the scale for dramatic visual storytelling, but can’t you just have the same size ships but closer shots of them?!

121. Matthias Wieprecht - April 3, 2011

i hope to see the late “next generation – people” and / or Captain Archer and Crew in one of the next movies somehow. also i hope for a between ent and kirk series or just more ent-seasons ;)

listen to me? i guess not, but i know it would work fine :P

Matthias

122. Chief Engineer - April 3, 2011

Don’t you think it’d be nice if any re-fit of engineering was down to Scotty stamping his authority, skills and legacy. A true sign of the man’s genius. That would be a fitting turnaround… and plausible.

123. raeb - April 3, 2011

Where’s the option for all of the above?

I think my two biggest peeves are the rapid ascension of the crew and Spock/Uhura.

Everyone bar Spock was a cadet. If anything Spock should have been made Captain, yes Kirk saved Earth but he hadn’t even finished his schooling. You don’t just become Captain after one mission – however great that mission is. I would have accepted if he was made First Officer. The other thing is Starfleet lost a lot of students with Nero destroying all those ships but yet there was full auditorium – would have made more sense with it behalf half or three quarters empty. I would like to see the next film remember that there was an impact on the numbers in the graduating classes.

Spock/Uhura is morally wrong. Spock is a professor, Uhura is a cadet. Add that to the fact it is a quasi-military organisation. Military’s don’t allow relationships within the same chain of command. Spock is in a position of authority over here twice over. He’s abusing that position by pursing a relationship with her.

I also object to Uhura being turned into the love interest. Can we just have a sci-fi movie where the main female isn’t a love interest? Please?

124. Cygnus-X1 - April 3, 2011

@ 113. Jack –

I totally agree. Frankly, it’s a bit miffing to see almost three times as many people taking issue with the brewery than with the weak motivation of the film’s villain. You’re absolutely right to call Nero a device of the film. He really was more of a device than a character. In fact, Nero’s motivation was actually a MacGuffin: his obsession for revenge drives the film, and the events of the main plot revolve around it, but it’s never really developed beyond a superficial explanation, and in the end it never really mattered and is conveniently disposed of as a victim of itself, i.e. Nero is so obsessed with revenge and consumed by hatred that he chooses to die (along with his motivation which has driven the film to that point) rather than accept help from the Enterprise).

And that’s it. The film ends and only 6% of the people here care about Nero’s hatred and obsession for murdering all of the humans that make up the Federation so that, in the future of the Alternate Universe, the Federation won’t exist and Spock won’t try and fail to save Alt. Romulus from a supernova explosion which is said to have “threatened to destroy the galaxy,” even though the notion of one star destroying a galaxy composed of hundreds of billions of stars spanning a hundred billion light years is ludicrous. Bob seems to have done so much research on QM and the MWI that it’s weird for him to made such a simple error in cosmology.

But, never mind about all that and what’s in the briefcase. These aren’t the droids you’re looking for. Back to the brewery…

125. Chief Engineer - April 3, 2011

Scotty has to be responsible for any re-fit of engineering! Let him build from scratch and keep him aggressive and busy. Let him focus on the one thing he loves… engineering.

126. Chief Engineer - April 3, 2011

I would also have voted No Keenser.

127. Iva - April 3, 2011

Yes, remove OCs. There is no “we had no time for that” excuse when you waste your time on things we would be better off without.

128. Kirk, James T. - April 3, 2011

As for the first film I thought it was perfect – ok no film is perfect – but it was pretty dam close by far and away the best film of 2009 – even in my humble opinion, better than Avatar story wise, I felt the use of the budweiser factory added a sense of grandure sorely missing from past Enterprises – a sense that this crew was actually on a giant space ship. One thing that may be good however is if that all these big factory spaces and pipes lead to a central hub, a gigantic engine perhaps to give it an added realisation that this is a huge space ship. An engine room would also be a good so that there was something relatable from Trek’s past but also a central space in which Scotty can give orders from rather than just having him running through endless piping.

The use of lensflare in my opinion was superb and added a unique style to Star Trek and made it look futuristic, retro cool and just added a very interesting depth to it all, it gave it a sense of movement and life behind the action and that was awesome so in this instance don’t listen to the fans.

There’s gotta be an A-list celebrity in the midsts this time – in the same way Batman has had some big names – so that internationally, Star Trek does better box office. But also I think adding a well-cast A-lister would add some gravitas to the whole ensamble.

Larger scope, lets go for Dark Knight meets Avatar, meets Star Trek – wouldn’t that be an awesome movie?

The most important thing of all is this; PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get HASBRO making the toys.

Throw in Qmx and Lego as well as Adidas for apparel (did you check out their Star Wars ad?) and you have yourselves a party.

Global – I felt the worst thing about Star Trek (2009) was Paramount/CBS’s poor attempt at marketing Star Trek around the world – Star Trek isn’t the US equivalant to the UK’s Doctor Who – Star Trek is a global brand like Star Wars – lets give it a marketing strategy that rivals that of Star Wars.

Cartoons/animation. Much in the same way The Clone Wars has kept the Star Wars brand alive for kids, an animated Star Trek series would ideally do the same – show it on Nickelodeon prior to the 3rd movie.

Business as ususal – JJ Abrams to direct, the same level and attention to detail as there was in the first movie and everyone doing what you all do best – in other words, just as you did with “STAR TREK”, bring your A-game

movie title? I want to see that by the end of the 3rd movie – a trilogy that is called “the trilogy Star Wars would have been proud of” or something to that effect. This movie has to be to Star Trek as Empire was to Star Wars only bigger and better than Empire. Lets just get out there, blow “The Amazing Spider-Man”, “The Dark Knight Rises”, “The Hobbit” and “Superman: Man of Steel” right out of the water in 2012.

Suggested title: ” Star Trek: Space, The Final Frontier” or something along those lines.

Romance – Spock and Uhura – I’m ok with it as long as you develop it unlike the usual hollywood romances (Sam and Megan Fox in Transformers – a BIG No no)

Dr McCoy – this guy needs to be in the sequel more – get that trio together and have the banter between Spock and McCoy fly.

Uhura – Zoe Saldana is an amazing actress, gotta use her more in the sequel – at least give her a phaser this time. maybe even put her in command

DONT DESTROY THE ENTERPRISE – too many movies, including The Dark Knight, these days tend to destroy things people love – don’t fall into this plot device – keep the Enterprise, I love that ship.

More Pike – he needs to be back and he needs to have as much to do in this film as he did in the first one.

Klingons – please :)

The Borg – could be awesome to have this alien race in your movies – by far the best villian in Trek

more ships, bigger battles – Theres gotta be a climactic battle in your movie between starfleet and something else, I’d love to see more ships

A bigger emphasis (and this goes to Paramount/CBS more than you guys) on the younger generation rather than the fans of yesterday’s Star Trek.

I love Michael Giacchino but bigger beats and more epic this time! Maybe enlist the services of Two Steps from Hell – the guys who did the music for the Star Trek 2009 trailers.

I loved how you used “Sabotage” in your first movie – I loved how relevant and current the movie was so I’d lilke to see more things like that – identifyable things such as nokia mobile phones and classic cars, bikes and tunes.

129. trek - April 3, 2011

My biggest nitpick (apart from Spock/Uhuru) wasn’t listed. The complete lack of “trekness” ie classically Star Trek is a collection of moral fables that rely on good story-telling. This was sorely absent from Star Trek 2009 – and instead we got just another mindless Hollywood action flick (which was fine – but it wasn’t Star Trek).

130. Beastmaster42 - April 3, 2011

Bar code scanners on the bridge! Really? I actualy use the same ones at work. let’s have a tour of the rest of the ship. & stop screwing with science, it’s lazy writing, anyone seen transformers? Lol

131. Holger - April 3, 2011

126: I second that!

132. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Hey Bob Orci. I will be more then happy to lend you my Portable Agonser for you to use against J.J to get him to direct Star Trek. All you need to do is ask and it is yours. Also. Feel free to use the Agonoser to get J.J to give us a real engineering room. Bob. You will be an official member of the Terran Empire if you can get J.J to both direct and get us a real Engineering Room.

133. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

I have never had a problem in Kirk becoming Capt so fast. Also I don’t have a problem with Spock and Uhurah. Need Scotty in the real Engineering room talking to his Wee beasties and barrins.

134. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Oh and thank you Bob for listning to us crazy hard core fans.

135. rtrj - April 3, 2011

122. Yes!
125. Yes! Let Scotty re-engineer Engineering!

I loved the movie, but really didn’t like the brewery, also we have a “young Spock” who should have more struggles between logic and not grasping
human emotion. Please let the romance with Uhura go away. Spock needs to struggle with Kirk’s hunches and intuition, he needs to balance Bone’s
emotionalism.
How about some “Boldly going where no one has gone before”? ( just no
ST V, please!) Don’t mess with the Klingons, that will start a fire storm.

136. P Technobabble - April 3, 2011

Not being a film-maker, I can only go by what I’ve read over the years and what I imagine it to be like, but it seems to me that film-makers are faced making an enormous number of decisions. Everyone who makes a decision about something is bound to make one that some others will disagree with. The film-maker is bringing the film to life, making it real. The critic is looking at it in hindsight. It’s easy to play backseat writer, director, designer, actor, etc. It’s not quite as easy putting it all together. Roger Ebert, for example, is regarded as one of the finest movie critics of our time, yet even he –with all of his presumptuous superior knowledge of what a great film is — co-wrote several screenplays (Beyond the Valley of the Dolls for one) which turned out to be dogs. The critic is not necessarily any more capable of writing or making a good film than the films they criticize. And I don’t imagine there are very many of us who post here who could write or make a film any better than Trek09, even though we might like to think so. I’m speculating, of course, but what are the chances?
As the older generation of film-makers fade off into the sunset, I think the young blood — guys like Abrams and Orci — will take film-making in a different direction than what we’ve been used to in the past. And they will have to make all kinds of decisions, trying to excite and capture the imaginations of as many people as possible. I don’t think that’s as easy task as some would like to think…

137. Janice - April 3, 2011

I loved the 2009 Star Trek movie! If I had to nitpick, I guess it would be all the lens flares. i found so much of it just a tad distracting. That’s a small thing though–as I said–I loved the movie.

For the sequel, I REALLY REALLY want to see PIKE be a part of the story. He should have at least as much screentime as he did last time. Of course my vote would be for MORE screentime because I thought Bruce Greenwood was awesome as Pike. Bring back Bruce Greenwood and take full advantage of the actors talent!

I hope JJ Abrams will direct.

MORE PIKE!!

138. Iva - April 3, 2011

More Bones dammit!

139. Easter bunny - April 3, 2011

As others have said – the needless decision to upscale the Enterprise’s size to something akin to a Star Destroyer (larger than the Galaxy class or Battlestar Galactica) was a big disappointment. Why does it have to be so large? Is someone at Paramount thinking “our franchise will be superior if our hero ship is the largest out there”?

The Enterprise as-is was already large enough – and also small enough that you cheered for it as it cam up against larger foes (The Fesarius, V’Ger, etc.)

140. Suz - April 3, 2011

The major thing I was disappointed with was the abandonment of the new universe Trek novels that were to have come out after the film. The film was great and reawakened my passion for Trek novels. I really wanted to explore more adventures with the new crew, but having the books snatched away and being told to wait years and years for two more hours of film really sucked.

141. David - April 3, 2011

I would say probably Kirk and his rapid promotions was the biggest issue for me. But I do hope it’s more than a nod to the fans as others have mentioned. Maybe an Admiral has an issue with Kirk since he got promoted so fast or some of express concerns about it. Maybe some insubordination as a result.

My other main issues were with the brewery set and the slapstick humor. Let’s get a good engineering set in there, hopefully Paramount will give extra money to budget for that. Often times I find Trek humor a bit over-the-top, and this was certainly the case with the allergic reaction Kirk had. Try to tone it down a tad.

The transporter issue bothered me a bit as well. Although I tried to rationalize as being like the subspace transporter in Star Trek TNG’s “Bloodlines” http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Subspace_transporter

That might suggest that Scotty in the Prime timeline solved the transwarp transport equation after he got to the 24th century post-“Relics”. I’m curious to see if that’s what Orci and Kurtzman were going for.

An onscreen clearing up of the Prime Universe/Alternate Universe ambiguity could help too. And yes, I hope they don’t change the Klingons if they have them. Maybe have one with ridges and ones without. Enterprise went there, and while I know not everyone likes it, I personally wouldn’t mind them having a nod to that. And if they choose to have Gorn in a cameo, I hope it’s more recognizable as one. The Enterprise one was a bit more faithful than the images I saw of a potential Gorn for the first movie.

142. David - April 3, 2011

Some of the crew have an issues with Kirk since he got promoted so fast I should say.

143. Easter bunny - April 3, 2011

Also, what the heck was up with Uhura being able to leave her post on the bridge any time she wanted to accompany Spock on a stroll? Is there no discipline on the bridge – or perhaps the Communications station now has voice-mail?

144. David - April 3, 2011

have issues d’oh

145. Star Trek Sequel Fan Already - April 3, 2011

Star Trek 2009 got bumped up to the very top of my favorite movies list as soon as I saw it. I loved the entire thing (so I voted for perfect!). I was honestly disappointed to see that the Spock/Uhura romance was rated higher than the others. I personally liked that because it’s a side of Spock we haven’t seen before. Kirk always got the girls, it’s nice to have Spock find somebody. However, I REALLY hope if they continue that that they don’t turn it into the whole “Uhura is sleeping over at Spock’s quarters” type of thing. Spock’s character would not do that and I really don’t think Uhura’s would too. That would completely ruin that whole relationship (and the whole movie too…at least for me). I liked Star Trek 2009 because it was action-packed, funny, memorable, tugged at your heart in spots, and was CLEAN!!!!!!!! So many movies out there today are getting worse and worse…

PLEASE DON’T POLLUTE THE SEQUEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(The only thing I could add is maybe turn down the lens flare generators a little…sometimes I really wanted to see a character’s expression but couldn’t because I was suddenly blinded….don’t get rid of them, just tone them down.)

146. Geek_Girl - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura. If it had been done right then it would have been fine, but as it is it has me cringing every time. It’s not only the romance that bothers me but Uhura in general. In TOS she is sweet and gentle, yet fully capable of taking care of herself. In the movie though Uhura is a bossy, spiteful harpy. It’s like yourf saying that women can only be strong if they are complete b!tches (actually that reminds me of Lost). Please bring back nice Uhura.

147. Jeff O'Connor - April 3, 2011

It sure is a good time to be a Trekkie. :)

148. ewinbee - April 3, 2011

I picked “nothing wrong”. I thought that the Budweiser plant gave a fantastic, organic feel to engineering; never before have I sensed the SIZE of it so well. The gigantic pipes and boilers gave an impression of power, all the more so impressive because none of it was CG. It was different, and anything different will get complaints.

Some of the coincidental meetings were a bit precious, but I wouldn’t trade a single one of them for the moment of glee felt through the entire audience every time we met a McCoy or a Scotty or (gasp) a Leonard Nimoy!

Spock/Uhura – I loved it. It spawns a million questions and plot points for the future, assuming their relationship continues — and there are few things rarer and more valuable than the discussion of an ONGOING romantic relationship in tv or film — the stuff that happens AFTER two people get together. Spock and Uhura have particular challenges, and I’ve love to see how they meet them. That pairing, however, was really, really different — in fact, a shock — and as such, it’s going to get complaints. Again.

As far as all of the death and destruction: I’ve never had a feeling in a film like I had the moment they burst onto that starfield studded with the wreckage of Starfleet ships. And then, the destruction of Vulcan! The first film was gutsy as hell, it rewrote the map almost completely, and did not fear to tread on sacred ground. A more careful tribute would have made a limp, unimpressive movie. NuTrek stung, but it shone.

I honestly think that the next film should be less epic, if possible. You can’t recapture the shock of the first, nor should you try… instead, focus on character moments more, because it’s hard to make smaller roles like Chekov and Sulu shine in film (as opposed to tv), but now is a perfect time to get to know the crew.

One thing I hope to see more of in film two: in film one, the relationship between Kirk and Spock was set up as that of an odd couple, with great friction and an eventual resolution that was very satisfying. But the original odd couple of Trek was actually Spock and McCoy. Kirk and Spock were always more in tune in the show, but McCoy and Spock constantly argue, snipe, get on each other’s nerves, they’re always the opposite ends of influencing Kirk and hence balance the trio perfectly. I’d love to see more of that relationship emphasized in film two, now that (hopefully) Kirk and Spock have come to terms with each other.

149. Tom - April 3, 2011

That is so cool that Bob acknowledges the fans. I am psyched for the new movie. Well Bob if you are listening then get the !#$%^& Shatner scene in!!! Of course twist Leonards arm to do it. This is way more important than Transformers for Leonard

150. Christine - April 3, 2011

I’m shocked that a lack of female characters was not a specific option.

I would have chosen that, but I’ll address my other problem–which has to do with female characterization. The Spock and Uhura was not great. It didn’t feel real and it seemed like the only reason it was put in there was to ;

A) Give someone for Spock to kind of have feelings around since he and Kirk weren’t friends.
B) Appeal to women watching the movie.

I’m a woman, and let me take this opportunity to say to the world out there that there does not have to be a romance in a movie for me to like it. It’s a little insulting to think women can’t relate to a film unless there’s man-catching in it. If that relationship was to be kept around, there are a few things I’d like to see change.

I don’t know if it was a misguided attempt to make her tough and bad-ass, but she came off as incredibly severe and just…not fun. I think she smiled once. Give her a character life of her own! She deserves to be something more than something Spock can react to or Kirk to hit on. And I’m sure she is able to function as an equal to her male counterparts without being a snarly ball-buster.

I’d also like to BEG for a love triangle to not happen. It’s so so so so so overdone and uninteresting and way too lame for such an overall kick-ass movie. It casts Uhura as the Yoko Ono of Kirk and Spock and also tells me, as a young and impressionable female, that life’s goal is to get two guys to want/ fight over you. Leave that lazy storytelling to Twilight. Star Trek is better than that!

151. KingDaniel - April 3, 2011

Love the new Enterprise, please don’t change it (*glances fondly at model*)

152. rtrj - April 3, 2011

148.”One thing I hope to see more of in film two: in film one, the relationship between Kirk and Spock was set up as that of an odd couple, with great friction and an eventual resolution that was very satisfying. But the original odd couple of Trek was actually Spock and McCoy. Kirk and Spock were always more in tune in the show, but McCoy and Spock constantly argue, snipe, get on each other’s nerves, they’re always the opposite ends of influencing Kirk and hence balance the trio perfectly. I’d love to see more of that relationship emphasized in film two, now that (hopefully) Kirk and Spock have come to terms with each other.”

Well said. Please develop the relationships between Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Add the romance of the Unknown with the excitement and mystery of exploration. Adventure!

153. chrisfawkes.com - April 3, 2011

My main nitpick is three years between movies.

I know that’s easier said than done, especially if Bob has a life, though if that’s the case how can he call himself a true trekkie.

154. chrisfawkes.com - April 3, 2011

If Abrams is busy could Nimoy direct?

155. Michael - April 3, 2011

Lens Flares I guess. But I really didn’t mind them.

I can understand the the fast promotion, who wants to watch a movie or too about Kirk being an ensign rather than just promoting him and getting him on the bridge.

The size of the ship I actually like a lot. The way I think about it is that Nero’s ship gave off reading and maybe ideas that made Star Fleet rethink their starship designs. Too me the design of the Enterprise was as affected by Nero’s arrival as the crew.

156. NFXstudios - April 3, 2011

My biggest issue with Star Trek 2009 isn’t an issue with that movie in particular, but with all the Trek movies in general.

THE major theme of the original series was the danger and adventure of the Enterprise being way out there past the edge of known space, all by themselves, solving one crisis or another related to their own survival.

Virtually every Star Trek movie so far (including Star Trek 2009) has taken place primarily in orbit of Earth. The original series crew members haven’t boldly gone anywhere except the kiddie pool in 40 years. Let’s get em out there!

157. Kent Butabi - April 3, 2011

I thought the scene with Pike and Kirk in the beginning was ruined by the shaky cam. That was a one-on-one, heart-to-heart they were having. No need for that there. Hate that.

158. Miko - April 3, 2011

Bring the Enterprise A style engineering with a nice big pretty warp core! Lose the Giant nacelles and incorporate a mix between original Enterprise and Enterprise A nacelles. More slow mo photon torpedo action! “Fire”
How to change style of the ship, just have a huge opening space battle in the next film seeing most of the ships engine section and nacelles destroyed, then have a nice re-fit!!!!!!!

159. rtrj - April 3, 2011

156. Yes! Thank you.

160. greenappleman7 - April 3, 2011

All I think Star Trek will need to become a great movie (like Dark Knight) is a great actor and character as villain- not necessarily a complete explanation, and some deeper themes!

161. sean - April 3, 2011

Really, Spock/Uhura is the biggest complaint right now? It was charming, has a root in stuff hinted in Canon, and was played quite well by Quinto & Saldana. What’s there not to like about it?

The biggest issue not listed here are all the tiny bits of dialogue/naming that pulled me out of the story — naming the planet “Delta Vega” was a cute nod, I get that, but it really confused long-time Trekkies; having Kirk say that Spock had “resigned his commission” when he’d just given up the captain’s chair went against established terminology. Having a transporter beam someone lightyears away seems a stretch.These are all things that only us uber-nerds will notice, Bob, but they weren’t insignificant.

I’m glad you’re consulting with the hardcore Trek fans, and suggest that Trekmovie isn’t the best nor only place where this should happen. Hire on a Reeves-Stevens or really any established novel writer to catch the tiny gaffes like this. I often wonder how much some of these were an artifact of the strike — if the screenplay for the first flick was fixed at a certain point, presumably any tiny errors couldn’t get caught and fixed later.

162. Weerd1 - April 3, 2011

My complaints about the brewery are logical, not aesthetic. There’s no one shoveling coal in a warp reactor; it’s like a physics lab, and has to be clean.

I personally think the Spock/Uhura relationship has a basis in TOS canon. When Uhura sings about Spock in “Charlie X” it would be very easy to interpret her lyrics to indicate they had been lovers at one time, but by then was finished. I also think in the New Universe there can be some interesting character conflict with Spock wanting to be with Uhura when the Vulcans are on the brink of extinction. Particularly if Spock’s betrothed also survived.

And, I hope T’Pring is played by Jolene Blalock, but that’s just me!

163. sunfell - April 3, 2011

The best resolution of the Spock/Uhura situation would be to 1) acknowledge that he’s in trouble for fraternization and 2) bring in T’Pring, his betrothed- who survived the destruction of Vulcan.

Also, why did McCoy bring Kirk onto the Enterprise- in spite of the distinct possibility of ruining his own career because of it? Is he in trouble for that? What about THAT relationship? It is clear that he did not want to leave his friend behind. Was it more than friendship?

The whole relationship dynamic is different- and the writers can have a lot of fun with it. Uhura is a strong, smart woman- and even if she has a ‘thing’ for Spock, it’s clear that she is motivated by her professional ambition more than her love for him.

It’s a whole new universe, guys! Have some fun!

164. SemperExploro - April 3, 2011

What matters is the core…the stories, the characters, the drama. There are a number of story lines that need to be dealt with…(too?) young captain and crew, destruction of Vulcan, etc.. You’ve set up dynamics at the macro and micro levels that deserve further exploration. Not looking for something that picks up where the last movie left off, but don’t ignore (and do a disservice) to the ST09’s events.

The design aesthetics are just that, aesthetics, but many (myself included) still consider them “table stakes”. Get them right. Period. Failure to do so shows an inattention to detail. Not your forte? Make it someone’s job.

Truly doing justice to Star Trek involves nailing both.

165. Mh - April 3, 2011

164. Indeed

166. Spencer - April 3, 2011

My nitpick is the fandom who want to homogenize and pasteurize the STAR TREKverse, many of them posting on this board about disliking this or that postings.

In the end, we have to let filmmakers be free to interpret the material that they are entrusted with and allow them to infuse their own styles and themes into the material, for them to make their contributions, whether it’s an industrialization of engineering, love affair between Uhura & Spock, lens flares, or the design of the starship, or whatever.

Blanching STAR TREK is what killed the movie and TV franchise divisions of this ‘verse.

I don’t envy the STAR TREK team like Orci who feel they need the feedback but at times need to shut out the “consultants” because you lose the fun in filmmaking when you have too many opinions involved.

167. Miko - April 3, 2011

Villain… DOOMSDAY MACHINE. A great threat to the whole Galaxy, not just Earth again. Be great to see a mass armada come to together like the end of avatar to make an awesome stand against the mighty Doomsday Machine
Also as for design of the Enterprise, as i said in 158. Have opening of film with perhaps a battle against the Klingons resulting in a re-fit for the Enterprise. New Engine room! New Nacelles! Nice long departing space dock scene just like old times! COME ON!! : )

168. Jeyl - April 3, 2011

I’m surprised that Uhura’s lack of relevance to the crew isn’t listed in the poll. If her character wasn’t in the movie, nothing would be lost. Kirk could have hit on some other unknown girl at the bar and you could have written off the klingon transmission entirely from Kirk’s plee with Pike. Just look at what she is in the movie.

– In the original series, she was “THE” communications officer onboard the Enterprise. Now she is just “A” communications officer on the bridge of the Enterprise with two other officers doing the same job (Hannity and Chekov).
– Her only contribution on discovering the klingon transmission was done offscreen while every other series original has contributions being done on-screen.
– She is promoted to bridge officer so she can search for Romulan transmissions. Pay off? There are no transmissions period, thus replacing the original officer entirely pointless. And of course Hannity already made that report before she did.
– She speaks Romulan in three dialects. Pay off? The Romulans all speak english. This one is special because even though the writers thought that giving Uhura this skill would be awesome, they praise each other on having the Romulans speak english as “BRILLIANT!” in the commentary track. Thus proving that the writers are more of a danger to Uhura than her relationship with Spock.
– Despite discovering the klingon transmission, she is not the one who considers it important until Kirk says it is. So as long as there is a man to tell her that something she did is important, she is utterly incapable of figuring it out herself.
– She stops Spock from going to the Transporter room while trying to rescue his parents and the council. Not only did this waste very precious seconds of Spock’s time that he could have used to saved his mother, but Uhura was also given orders to issue an evacuation order to Vulcan since the whole planet was minutes away from total destruction. Minutes. I know she’s supposed to be a human being who is in love with Spock, but this is not the behavior nor performance you want from an officer during a planet wide crises where billions of lives are at stake.
– Her line “I’ll be monitoring your frequencies” was not only played for laughs, but also served as a reminder that she won’t do anything during the last act. The only thing she did do was shout “MOVE!” at some officer in the corridor who wasn’t even in her way.

As for her relationship with Spock? It came out of nowhere, it lacked a heartfelt development. Why were they into each other? What was their first meeting like? What sparked the relationship? What do they enjoy talking about? What were their views on the relationship since she is a cadet and he is an instructor? Just one of these questions would have added something, but all we’re left with is the fact that they’re together and nothing more. It’s sad because she is the only female character that matters in this crew and so far she’s just a simple love interest who’s super communications skills are never put to use.

169. Ryszard Gold - April 3, 2011

Why do so many people have an issue with engineering??? It looks like a power plant to me, a huge power plant that is meant to drive a massive starship faster then light! Using the brewery was a good call, using an existing place like that gave a level of detail and realism that can in a lot of cases not be achieved with prebuilt sets.

It was such a difference from other engineering sets everyone got all bent out of shape, no shiny lights in a tube warp core, it was heresy!! But so were a lot of other things.

The engineering set had better stay as is, it would make it much less believable if it didn’t… I never liked how in the original movies there was always a new bridge with every movie, I hope they realize massive inconsistencies like this ruin the story.

Go look at any power generation plant, are there not tanks and pipes everywhere, look at any physics lab, hell, look at the LHC, is not exactly a simple looking machine…nor would a warp reactor be simple looking.

Also, I think it was exactly like the ships itself compared the the 60’s version, the engineering room back then was much more power plant like then, why not carry that on?

I thought it was much more believable myself…who else agrees with me?

170. Weerd1 - April 3, 2011

One more think about young Captain Kirk; Starfleet is in any universe a adaptive organization. For instance, they had been promoting Captains to Admirals at a regular pace for years. When Kirk comes along and as Admiral saves the Earth TWICE, someone gets the idea that some people should stay in the center seat. We know this idea takes hold, because Picard commanded Stargazer for 22 years, and then nine years later took command of the Enterprise D for another eight, the E for at least another 10. In this universe, we do have a shortage of captains; at least six or seven killed at Vulcan, and whatever the heck is going on in the Larentian system (Klingon skirmish?). Pike, to whom Kirk is a special project, is wounded and needs to recover; he recommends a successor. Plus, Starfleet has to deal with the existence of Spock Prime.

Spock can’t go back and change the timeline; when he arrives in 2258 the timeline is already altered, and has 25 years of events in place. If he goes back to change things again, he does the moral equivalent of committing genocide against an entire timeline (as Admiral Jaynway did at the end of Voyager; think of all the people born in those 16 years, or the people Voyager helped along the way in their extended journey. Jayneway sacrifices all of that, all of those people to save Seven. Unconscionable). Perhaps he can look for ways to return to his own timeline (TNG’s “Parallels” clearly demonstrates that timeline still exists somehwere), but for him as a character, he has already done all he can there; and his time there ended in failure as he failed to save Romulus. Here, he can make up for the damage he has inadvertently allowed Nero to do by helping this new timeline, which he finds already well in place. How does he help? By helping Starfleet see why they need Kirk in command of the Enterprise.

Remember also, this is not the same Kirk who we see at the academy; he has now mind melded with Spock, and found within…

…Kirk Prime. Divergent Kirk now knows who he should be, how he should feel. In the movie you get a drastic shift in how Pine presents the character from this point forward. He’s no longer a kid named Jim Kirk, he is Captain James T. Kirk.

171. Rhett Coates - April 3, 2011

Uh, Bob? That engineering set – as many are saying – was a bit obvious. Although, while it also appeared that thje [lower decks] Communications Section, where Kirk ran to find Uhura (with his swollen hands) appeared too cluttered, the big malting tanks behind the computer consoles could possibly be explained away as large deuterium storage tanks — unless, of course, deuterium is too dangerous to be stored that close to occupied areas of the vessel.

I was thinking on something else [you?] said about a year ago here on this website – or was it another site? – that parts of the ship’s interior might not have been “finished” before the Big E was called into emergency action due to the Nero threat over Vulcan. If that’s the case, all they’d need to to would be to “enclose” the pipes, tanks and so forth inside newly-erected bulkheads to appear more in line with what we saw in those artist’s rederings/drawings for the proposed set designs….

I think that the destruction of Vulcan, for someone like me who’s a ST fan, was as surreal and shocking as the destruction of the NCC-1701 over the Genesis Planet in ST III. That was seriously over the top, Bob – and if I were writing all future ‘Treks in the revised timeline, will have EXTREMELY far-reaching repercussions throughout the entire Federation in more ways than we can even consider in the immediacy of the aftermath. Like the loss of the Amargosa Star in ST:Generations, what gravitational forces were altered in that sector of the Beta Quadrant? If Scotty could get the Big E from Earth to Vulcan in 4 days (end of ST:TMP, his line to Spock after V’Ger ‘vanished’), how would that affect the surrounding area of our galaxy – including “Sector 001″….?

Finally, what if Spock Prime found a “fascinating” planet for Vulcan’s survivors to recolonize – somewhere in Andorian space? You could connect the dots of ST:ENT with ST 11 – and hit on the former friction between Vulcans and Andorians in that series: and then maybe we could actually SEE the last scene in the novelization of ST 11 happen in the opening scene of ST 12 – where a certain Beagle rematerializes on the transporter platform of the Big E … and maybe later find out, when he’s reunited with his master, that Spock Prime approached and prompted Admiral Archer himself to help find a sutible planet for Vulcan’s refugees to relocate into a part of the galaxy where, a century before, they almost went to war with Andoria over, of all things, Romulan meddling behind the scenes….!

The possibilities are endless.

Oh, and the Spock/Uhura romance? That was a surprise to see so out-in-the-open (to us as viewers of the film), although to echo what Nichelle Nichols said herself in an interview on that topic, I suppose it shouldn’t really surprise any of us, since in TOS episode “Charlie X” we saw Uhura flirting with Spock like crazy, and once again – since “The Cage” – in that very scene we saw Spock “smile” again at the lyrics she came up with as she sang, while he played his Vulcan harp…. That was a hoot! It wasn’t therefore all that difficult to make the leap, in that light, toward a possible romance which might not have gone as far in the Prime Timeline as it was shown to have developed in the new timeline. The two best examples (first one is a wild tease, and Spock just takes it all in stride):

Scene From TOS – CHARLIE X:

Scene From TOS – THE MAN TRAP:

At least we finally found out the canon First Name for Uhura…. Nyota! (With Nichelle’s blessing, too, no less!) “Carry on, Mr. Orci; As You Were.”

172. Rhett Coates - April 3, 2011

Ooops — sorry, Anthony, I forgot that we can’t post actual LINKS here by using the “” symbols. Oh, well. Those links to CHARLIE X and THE MAN TRAP were from YouTube, and have appeared here on Trek Movie Report before.

173. NCC-73515 - April 3, 2011

I’m surprised to see the Spock/Uhura romance is the top vote right now. It was always there in TOS, subtle moments of affection, they just didn’t go for it in the original timeline… Some of Uhura’s reactions in the old episodes are even more fun now that you know what could be, and it all makes sense ;)

I’d like to see more Klingon designs, costumes, ships and beards, please. Give us a young Chang!

174. Ray Shaw - April 3, 2011

As Brian Denham states, in desperate times people DO get promoted suddenly, often due to their superior officers being incapacitated or killed in battle. Sometimes they just take over and do the job and after the smoke clears their superiors award them the rank for proving their worth. Wars and conflict throughout history have shown examples of exceptionally talented and brave individuals stepping up and performing well beyond expectations. Not all of them are as extreme as Farrugut’s taking over at age 11, but there are many examples of teenagers getting battlefield commissions.

175. ensign joe - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura just played poorly.. Uhura came off as taking advantage of Spock IMO..

176. AJ - April 3, 2011

156:

NFXStudios:

You wrote: “THE major theme of the original series was the danger and adventure of the Enterprise being way out there past the edge of known space, all by themselves, solving one crisis or another related to their own survival.”

In fact, the major theme of TOS, spelled out at the end of TMP, is “The Human Adventure is Just Beginning…”

An interracial crew, as depicted in TOS was ‘where no man has gone before,’ and an African-American Captain followed by a female Captain, with mixed-race crews, all are part of the adventure.

Roddenberry, as was his style sometimes, bashed us over the head with the message (“Farpoint” and Q discussing ‘human arrogance’), but I still see the bulk of classic “Trek” as a big juicy metaphor for the development of humanity rather than a log of missions.

To your point, whether or not the story took the crew to Earth too often in the films never dawned on me as a minus. As a kid watching TOS, I always wished they’d return to Earth, just to have a look.

177. trekker 5 - April 3, 2011

hey man, i got no beef about Trek o9. I love the movie,I liked everything,the Spock/Uhura thing was a risk Bob&Alex took,alot of people didnt like it,but i did. And as far as engineering goes,well,ok,that was alittle bad. But i guess im used 2 the TOS set. Fake really gets 2 ya!

178. Shaun - April 3, 2011

the use of lens flares didn’t annoy me; i actually kind of liked them. the shakeycam directing was terribly off-putting. some of us do not react well to watching something that strains our eyes to the point that we leave the theatre with a massive headache. other than the “cloverfield effect,” i loved the new film.

179. Harry Seldom - April 3, 2011

Didn’t check my TrekMovie yesterday, so I’m comment 176 or later…

Bob, if you read this far, you are a saint. But just in case, to fan-boy complaints, one defense of 2009:

FBC#1: Transport onto a ship at warp! I know we’re talking made-up tech, but warp is faster than light. My geek mind cringed at that one. Given that technology, why have ships?

FBC#2: Exploding (multiple?) warp cores to surf out of a black hole. Not gonna work. One of Voyager’s better moments was when we got to see what a warp core ejection would look like. That was the heart of the ship, and it looked like it.

2009 Defense: I liked Spock/Uhura! Look over TOS, and it’s not hard to back fill an attraction between them. Especially Uhura teasing Spock in Charlie X.

– Harry

180. Paul Gadzikowski - April 3, 2011

I think it’s reasonable that the focus of the most recent film was an origin story told through action-adventure, but I’d like to see the next film delve more deeply into the optimistic, humanistic philosophy that is as much a foundation of the franchise’s fandom as the characters are.

Also I’d like to see further development of the Uhura-Spock romance. But that doesn’t theaten to break them up. That’ would be trite.

181. Aurore - April 3, 2011

@ Roberto Orci

…So, anyway, how is it going? Feeling a little better now?

Don’t worry, everything is going to be alright.

182. joe - April 3, 2011

My biggest problem was Kirk becoming captain too fast but after reading what Brian Denham (#14) had to say maybe I have to rethink that. But that being said I still do like the idea of Kirk being the only hero the 24th. century has rather it be in the prime universe or the new one even though we have not seen the 24th. century in this new universe yet.

183. madtrekfan - April 3, 2011

Sort out engineering – a verical intermix chamber would be nice!

Any chance of having Jerry Goldsmith’s Star Trek theme back? A lot of the purist TOS fans will probably disagree but for me Star Trek isn’t Star Trek without Jerry Goldsmith (as good a job as Alexander Courage did and others like James Horner)

184. Lope de Aguirre - April 3, 2011

I can’t believe that the Spock/Uhura romance and the Brewery are the leading points in this poll!

For me it’s by far the promotion of Kirk! (along with a few other crewmembers) and the Transwarp beaming.

Seriously, beaming over distances of light years into a ship flying with warp speed (and also not into a transporter room and without help from technicians ON the ship) 100 years before Picard, Sisko + Janeway…

185. JimmyMac - April 3, 2011

@ boborci:

Make the Enterprise a character in the sequel, not just a ship they happen to be on. PLEASE!

186. JKP - April 3, 2011

Shakeycam and lens flare should be separate. I don’t min the over the topmlens flare, but I hate shakeycam in any flick.

I also want more Kirk, Spock, McCoy stuff and a lot less of the supporting characters. It was the KSM dynamic that made this show what it was and we’ve only got 2 hours, so keep Chekov, Sulu and Uhura to a minimum. I’d ask for more Scotty, but they need to fix the character to be more like TOS Scotty and less like the movies Scotty.

I had no quibbles with the sets. Whatever, they’re sets and not really that big a deal compared to getting the characters right.

187. layla - April 3, 2011

My problem with S/U was not that it seemed to come out of nowhere (though, that too was an issue), but that it gave us an Uhura who had no other purpose in the film than to be one of the male lead’s booty call. She was first shown as the hottie at the bar whom the man of the hour would hit on (and grab her boobs, no less — how revolting) and then as the svelte babe who flashes us with her sexxayyy white underwear and bra. So in her first few scenes in the movie, she’s firmly established as the requisite female sex symbol who is there to titillate the male audience members and accomplishes not much else. She’s Spock’s girlfriend and that is all she is. She might have other talents related to her profession but they’re only mentioned, in passing, never shown as evidence. Whatever her accomplishments may be with languages only come out as statements from her own mouth. When it comes to making connections between the discoveries she’s made, she needs the genius male hero of the movie to do it for her. I loved TOS Uhura. Zoe Saldana is a fantastic actress but I’m afraid her version of Uhura doesn’t do it for me. She came across as too much of a bitch for my tastes. A woman doesn’t need to be a bitch to be deemed worthy of respect, for god’s sake! I only feel S/U was detrimental to Uhura’s character. I would rather there were NO love triangles/relationships between the main crew. That’s not what Trek was about. Kirk – Spock – McCoy – Uhura – Scotty – Sulu – Chekov. Their friendships are more important. Please give us that magic again.

188. John Moffat - April 3, 2011

Get rid of the little alien chracter that was with scotty. We don’t need a jar jar binks!

189. Weerd1 - April 3, 2011

As much as I am feeling like the primary apologist for Mr. Orci and crew (you’re welcome, by the way :) ) let me take a moment to defend transwarp beaming. Yes, it is out of place. That’s the point. We know in the second season of TNG (circa 2364 or so) that the D can’t beam while at warp onto a fixed point: refer to the scene in “The Schizoid Man.” However, four or five years later, Scotty is pulled from his transporter loop on the Jenolan. With all his ideas on how to do it, and some 24th Century advances, he writes the actual formula… which Spock Prime now knows and can give to young alternate Scotty. The formula is out of place, but Spock Prime, knowing he cannot reset the timeline, changes it further, in HIS favor! He cheats. A trick he learned from an old friend…

Indeed, Starfleet’s tech is already more advanced, because they haev reverse engineered the information from the Kelvin survivors regarding the Narada. Also, Fleet doesn’t know the Narada is from the future; they imagine the Romulans may have a few of these behemoths flying around out there, and have redoubled their own efforts to counter that threat. Hence a bigger, fancier 1701, which also takes an additional ten or so years to build.

190. George Hale - April 3, 2011

I chose the quick promotions because transwarp beaming wasn’t a specific option. I also didn’t like how they were all on the same level, with Kirk and Bones being at around the same level of seniority as Chekov and Sulu

191. CJS - April 3, 2011

Less just plain stupid stuff, such as a large predatory creature tossing away a perfectly good meal to chase after an hors d’oeuvre.

192. SPOCKBOY - April 3, 2011

I thought Star Trek was a great movie.
The main ingredient missing for me was the sense of wonder.
As a kid, TOS tapped into that childlike wonder every time I looked up at the stars.
What would it be like to actually go out there?
As much as I enjoyed Chris Pine, and I really did enjoy him, Shatner’s Kirk felt more like an explorer to me. Just one quiet moment of Pine looking up at the sky(or into the viewscreen) wide eyed, pondering what’s out there would have done it. Kirk is an adventurer, but there needs to be that underlying layer that runs deeper than adventure, fighting, and scoring women.

What drives this man?

To be the first to experience something new.
To blaze a trail for the rest of us.
To go where no one has gone before.

193. David - April 3, 2011

@ 189: That was the only way I could really rationalize the transporter aspect as well, which I mentioned in my post above. They did show the ability to transport in “Bloodlines” vast distances–which took place AFTER Scotty was revived in the 24th century–over year later in fact. Then again, I’m not sure if a subspace transporter it’s supposed to work while in warp or when the two objects are stationary. It’s been awhile since I saw that episode.

194. SPOCKBOY - April 3, 2011

Oh and yes, PLEASE get rid of that silly Ewok made of stone.
Scotty’s passion is engines, and occasionally Scotch.
I myself was born in Scotland and I’ve met people like Scotty. People who are passionate to the point of obsession about one thing. That’s what makes them brilliant at it.
Scotty’s character is strong enough and certainly doesn’t need a cutesy alien for comic relief. ;)

195. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

I really think they have already developed the whole story… I guess they must just be making some adjustments in the script… so I do not think they will make big changes in it because of suggestions from fans…

But I think that details about the design of the Enterprise and ” Brewery used for engineering “…. yes I think they will hear the views of the fans… at least I hope!

I loved Star Trek … but I expect improvements in the design of the Enterprise, the costumes, etc… but I ‘m quiet about it… surely they’ll be thinking about it when they start pre-production…. I hope!

:-) :-)

196. JimJ - April 3, 2011

Anthony-First I want to say thank you for being on top of things with this movie, once again, just like ther “first”. Second, I must say that the “hiatus” over Christmas-New Year’s only made me appreciate what you do on a daily basis even more.

ENGINEERING-I loved the movie, I can deal with all the other so called “issues”, but engineering was the big disappointment for me. It just wasn’t a Star Trek engineering. To me, it looked like an engineering from those low budget Sci-Fi movies that hope to capture lightning in a bottle (be like Star Wars). Anyway, I think if that were fixed, I’d be sold on the new USS Enterprise. She’s a little top-heavy, but so are some actresses that I adore! lol

197. Patrice - April 3, 2011

Trek 2009, I loved it all of it, but it could use a bit of a tweak.

Engineering, well I can understand trying to cut the budget a bit. Well, You take your chances. Try not to use one so obvious. The scene featuring the underbelly of the Kelvin looked better/ realistic.

Spoke and Uhura and a vulcan struggling to sort out his emotions, loved it. I think it really brings home the fact that this is an alternate reality and that these characters are not the same characters of old. Thank God for that. Those older characters although brilliantly conceived were not exactly relating to today’s generation. This Trek is awesome with a bit of edge.
I would like to see Uhura’s character fleshed out a little more. Even in TOS we rarely got a little more than, ‘hailing frequencies open’.
Bob,

198. AJ - April 3, 2011

192: Spockboy

“I thought Star Trek was a great movie.
The main ingredient missing for me was the sense of wonder.”

Maybe one ingredient missing was the young age you had when you first experienced ‘Star Trek.’ I discovered Trek around 1972 in NYC on WPIX when I was 8. I did my homework, and pulled my dinner out of a warming drawer in front of Star Trek on the kitchen TV. I was enthralled.

I never even questioned the FX. I was mesmerized by the stories, and was overwhelmed again with that ‘sense of wonder’ when I saw the D7’s vaporized in TMP and the subsequent reveal of the E refit. ! was 13.

Now, at 46, the ‘sense of wonder’ thing as far as cinema is concerned is largely dead.

My kids being born activated that feeling, and, most recently, the devastating tsunami in Eastern Japan did the same. But, that’s more ‘circle of life” real stuff. Cinema just doesn’t do it for me at a certain age. though LOTR came mighty close.

199. Patrice - April 3, 2011

Bob, Thanks for all that you are doing.

200. Thorny - April 3, 2011

I liked the movie. Not perfect by any stretch, not even my favorite Trek movie, but it was a damned good movie. My main beef is the destruction of Vulcan. Too large a wholesale change to the Trekverse for my taste.

Kirk going from Cadet-to-Captain overnight is runner-up.

Both of these are “too late now, move on” issues in my book. Just write a good story and make a good movie for Star Trek 2012, please.

If they have the time and budget (and the ‘time’ part is now hugely doubtful in my opinion), make a genuine Engineering set. I didn’t know it was filmed in a brewery until I read it here, I just figured Paramount got a great deal on lots of old pipes and metal tanks somewhere and said, “hey, you guys use this stuff for Engineering!”

201. et - April 3, 2011

I have only one complaint, and really, it was nothing on screen.

WHY IS THE NEW ENTERPRISE SO GODDAMM BIG??

It’s allegedly the size of the “D” fer cryin’ out loud. Each warp engine is bigger than the whole engineering section of the old ship.

I know J.J. wanted that shuttle scene… and felt like the Budgineering couldn’t fit in a regular sized hull, but… REALLY? There’ve gotta be a thousand crewmen on board that monster now.

No… It didn’t affect my movie experience one durn bit. Not at all. But now the canonheads are going crazy. FIX IT! I don’t know how… Just… FOR THE LOVE OF SAREK!

202. Dave Smith - April 3, 2011

Personally, I had no problem with engineering. I loved the idea of the brewery as it added density and scale to the ship. That was always lost in all the series of Star Trek mainly for budgetary reasons I assume. I always felt here is this large ship that we only see 20% of and even that felt confined. I feel most people don’t fathom the size of the Enterprise. I would go outside and walk off the length to understand it. The brewery “plumbing” allowed me to feel this is the other stuff we don’t see on the Enterpise perhaps in addition a more high-tech area that is the main hub of the engine room.
The latest movie had scale and energy. With the types of crisis the crew is dealing with you would expect information coming from everywhere to make informed decisions quickly. The original show had some of this movement. To me the camera with the lense flare made me feel like I was in the action with out actually being in the way. It also captured the strength of the lighting that you might experience in space. Your traveling by stars and suns. Even with polarization in the 23rd century you might experience lense flare on transparent surfaces.
I love the fans and their sense of history with Star Trek but I feel with some fans their lack of vision prevents Star Trek from continuing to move forward. After all that is what Star Trek was all about, going, seeing and experiencing what no man or woman has ever before. Keep going JJ and crew, your doing a wonderful job with the history and expansion of the vision!

203. Rick Sternbach - April 3, 2011

I may have mentioned this before, but in the E.E.Smith LENMAN series, Kimball Kinnison is given command of the Brittania fresh out of the Academy, so there’s some precedence there. Hard core Trek fans have probably read the books, but for those of you who haven’t, you should. Keep in mind the times in which they were written, of course, but you will see that for most space-based sagas, this is the origin of All We Know.

204. Delma - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura worked for me and mine.

205. carlie - April 3, 2011

I was always a huge fan of TOS Uhura. While all the other women like Chapel, Rand and numerous others were busy mooning over men who didn’t even know they were alive or selling out the ship for genetically engineered supermen and demi gods, Uhura flirted a little, sang too much but got on with the job in hand. For that she deserved respect.

NuUhura claims she deserves to be on the Enterprise but at the same time she may be romantically involved with her professor, a state of affairs that would generally attract derision rather than respect. Once on the ship she abandons her post on two separate occasions to pursue Spock. True he has experienced a traumatic event, but surely this is hardly behaviour befitting an officer? Despite their friendship/relationship, he refuses to confide in her. Oddly rather than be annoyed or hurt she backs off happy to accept his assertion that he simply needs everyone to continue working. She continues to believe this even when Spock is marooning Kirk on an ice planet and attempting to rip his throat out on the bridge. It is left to Kirk to push Spock into admitting he is compromised and to Sarek to reassure Spock that it is all right to feel emotional. At this point Uhura conveniently forgetting Spock’s refusal to confide in her and ignoring the fact he was about to beam off the ship on a possible suicide mission without making the effort to find her in order to goodbye, goes into girlfriend mode and decides to snog him in full view of other crewmembers. Yeah, totally the behaviour one would expect from an officer. It doesn’t do her much good as, towards the end of the movie, her charms aren’t enough to persuade Spock he should stay with the Enterprise and he is seemingly happy for her to head out into deep space for years. However, just the promise of a defining friendship with Kirk is enough to send him back on board, where Uhura perhaps convinced he must have returned for her greets him with a smile.

Come on screenwriters this isn’t the sixties anymore, there is no excuse for female characters to be reduced to nothing more than token love interests. If you want to beef up the Uhura character simply allow her to be given the conn on occasion and allow her to go on missions. Please do not subject us to her continuing to chase Spock around the ship, especially while he is pursuing his defining friendship with Kirk. She can only ever come off as second best and even NuUhura deserves better than this.

206. virgin vulcan basement nerd - April 3, 2011

I just voted in the poll and am flabbergasted by the results. Spock/Uhura romance and brewery engineering and in the lead?? Holy crap. Destruction of Vulcan all the way. These poll results are highly illogical.

The Spock/Uhura romance is at least kind of interesting; more so than another Kirk fling. Destroying Vulcan was insane… Say it isn’t so…

Engineering is a minor cosmetic issue imo.

207. virgin vulcan basement nerd - April 3, 2011

P.S. Although I have to say that I’d prefer a Kirk-centered romance just because the emotional aspect of Spock is already too overt for my taste in the reboot.

208. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Besides Engineering the one thing I was not to crazy about was the way the Enterprise fired her weapons. I would much rather see the Enterprise fire her Phasers and Torpedoes more of the original way. Also. The Hand Phasers did not care for the way they fired as well. Would rather see a beam come out of the phaser instead of a shot like a gun. Please try and fix that.

209. Dac - April 3, 2011

Stick with the brewery if need be – just add in a focal point, namely a warp core that says “THIS is what is powering this mammoth starship”, not some random collection pipes. There was no reference point for your eyes in the secondary/engineering hull section, it was just people running alongside random pipes.

210. K.Dresel - April 3, 2011

I have to say my biggest hate for the movie was the Spock/Uhura romance. It came out of nowhere and seemed to really make Uhura a generic action movie girlfriend, which most women will tell you is insulting. Her whole role is basically defined as eyecandy and barroom bitch. I want to see Uhura more like a role model for young women and not just the girl who is there to “sex-up” a main character.

Her and Spock would be much better as friends because their relationship basically seemed to have no real purpose in the movie or on the plot. It actually was a detriment to the movie. I was really sucked into the film, like nothing else in the theatre mattered, the building could have burnt down around me and I wouldn’t notice and then suddenly “BAM!” Uhura and Spock are dating! It knocked me out of the whole movie and I could barely get back in to it because every time I did she was there leaving her post to suck face and further emotionally compromise Spock. A decent woman would not be hitting on a guy who just saw his Mother die. You would ask if he is okay, maybe offer a hug but you wouldn’t just grab him and start making out with him. Relationships that start like that never EVER end well for either party.

Also, their relationship left me wondering if it was something the two could get away with without being reprimanded or discharged from Starfleet as Uhura was technically Spock’s student. Doesn’t seem kosher to me. As an organization similar in structure to military I can’t see it being allowed. It could cost both of them their future in Starfleet and both seem very focused on reaching their goals, so I can’t see either of them risking their jobs or professional reputation for a “romance.”

I would much prefer the movie to go back to the traditional format where none of the characters were “dating” each other. It seemed to make the movies much more enjoyable if we didn’t have to try to ignore a subplot to be able to watch the rest of the movie.

211. Pat Gleeson - April 3, 2011

@ 17

Spot on sir, couldn’t have said it better.

212. Christopher Roberts - April 3, 2011

19. Well said.

213. KMAN - April 3, 2011

I loved Star Trek ’09, It was different but it was 2009 not 1960’s the sets were excellent something fresh something not used before. I cannot understand some of the fans on here ranting i.e engineering the exterior of the Big E actors ect…

This a Reboot folks and specifically an ALTERNATE timeline nothing is going to be the same and the continuity of the old timeline is gone hence why the writers and crew did this so they are not stuck having to stick to continuity of the old timeline, I think everything looked great, Engineering looked like what it should big functional and a power plant that could propel and run the Enterprise, not some vertical warp core that looked like a plastic lighted thing and the Bridge looked great better than a bunch of slapped together cardboard and plastic gizmos i understand it was the 60’s and they did not have a big budget but if I could imagine if they did they might have dome something similar , me and a friend were talking about the movie and the only problem he had was the lens flares as he got dizzy from all of it and was stating he would hate to see if someone had a seizure from that which I could understand, but myself it worked kept things bright fresh

I have been a fan since the beginning of the next generation, but was getting tired of story lines being re-hashed (i.e next generation stories being re-done on Voyager and Enterprise, and I tend to think that is what killed the franchise.

I am glad that the old writers directors ect are gone and that new faces were brought in to re-boot trek.

So keep up the good work new stories ect, and keep everything as is and you are off to an excellent start.

214. rebecca - April 3, 2011

I don’t really think Kirk was promoted to captain too young. He was promoted to captain in 2264 at age 31. That looks like young to me. I have a thing for younger starship captains, I don’t have a problem with that you know.

215. T.Brinn - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura completely fails. I have to say it just ruined the whole movie for me. Uhura doesn’t need to be defined only as the sexy girlfriend of the main character. By doing so it completely ruins the character the TV series created and makes a crappy role model for young women. A woman should not be define by who she has sex with as this movie portrays. She is defined by her character and actions just like a man.

Also, if you watch the movie her role as the “girlfriend” has no real barring on the plot and only leaves the audience wondering why the writters felt the need to add a useless subplot. I mean as someone who pays attention to body language I can’t see this as anything more than a one-sided crush on Uhura’s part. Spock spends the whole time never making direct eye contact with her and seems to do everything he can to not be in the same room or same ship until the transporter scene.

I mean, really he makes better emotional connections to Kirk on a romantic scale than he does to Uhura in this movie and he hates Kirk for most of the movie. So yeah, down with the useless Spock/Uhura thing and go for independant, strong Uhura like in the classic series.

216. Capes - April 3, 2011

@Bob Orci…..

The quick promotion/justification (specifically of Kirk) could be explained a couple of ways (Let me get my geek hat on for a minute…) AT this age in the original time line, Kirk was somewhere between A) teaching at the Academy, B) serving on the Starship Republic, C) Serving on The USS Farrigut. In the new timeline, Kirk has missed out on some of the life experiences that made him “Our” Kirk but those experiences have been replaced with others that equally helped him build “character”. So this Kirk came to be more as a punk…..but with potential. In essence he is still our Kirk. Spock knew by Nero’s and his backstep in time that things clearly had been irrevocably changed, including the lifepath of his closest friend. Spock could not change what happened to Vulcan except to commit himself toward helping to rebuild it’s culture and it’s heritage. But he had mindmelded on more than one occasion with James T Kirk. He knew this man’s heart, his soul. He knew the lengths that Captain James T. Kirk would go to make things “right” in his universe. Finally, he knew what his friend had accomplished in his universe and how he had saved it on more than one occasion. How could he deprive this timeline of that potential? One mindmeld with Admiral Komack sharing the life experiences of his friend and the “potential” of this James T. Kirk to help “motivate” the Admiral to say to his peers: “This officer took command and “made a difference”. He earned the right to stay in the temporary rank that he was given……”
On a secondary point, consider the lengths Spock went to for “his” Captain Pike in his original timeline. Here again was an opportunity to make things right for another Captain to whom he was extremely loyal. So, another mindmeld this time with Pike, and Spock again could have shown Pike the potential, and the possibilities of James T. Kirk. Securing yet another strong voice for this young officer to BE the Captain of the Enterprise.
Having said all of that in this new timeline, there would still be those critical of the decision (and possibly one very surprised individual in James T. Kirk himself) but….that is “their” problem, the decision was made. (And I would daresay that even if Kirk himself was surprised….after “his” mindmeld with Spock, he would say that things felt oddly “right” with all of this.)
In this way, once again, Spock was able to “make right” what was left askew. This timeline would have it’s Captain James T. Kirk of the Starship Enterprise and the talented crew of individuals that would become his “Team”, and they would also shine brightly….

Albeit in this timeline, they wouls shine brightly in a little different light.
So There are ALWAYS possibilities.

My mind to your mind……My thoughts to your thoughts…..

217. El Chup - April 3, 2011

I am surprised the Spock/Uhura thing angered so many. I never had a problem with it.

I voted for fast promotions in the poll, but I also hated engineering and the lens flare BS.

What easn’t a poll option was the lack of a Roddenberry-esque morality play. That, to me, was the biggets mistake. I can understand leaving it out of an origin story, but there’s really no excuses for it not being in the sequel. If all we get is an action sequel I will be dissapointed.

218. LJ - April 3, 2011

More Bones! Remember the triumvirate from TOS: Bones’ emotion counterbalancing Spock’s logic. Never mind the fact that the old country doctor was always the strongest character (IMHO) in TOS.

Lets finally see McCoy’s ex and his daughter, Joanna (mix it up as I once read was considered: Joanna as Kirk’s ‘flame of the week’, almost causing the Bones-Kirk friendship to break). This could be one of the central plot arcs of the film.

219. Iva - April 3, 2011

I think it mainly angered because it both pushed Bones out of the picture to make more screen time for Uhura and make a twisted K/B : S/U parallel
and completely undermined a main character’s credibility.

220. Neumann - April 3, 2011

* Sorry.

The same people saying Kirk became Captain too fast and that the Uhura/Spock romance didn’t make sense are the same ones saying that ONE PERSON could completely redesign the inner workings of a Starship?

THAT doesn’t make sense (the idea that it all leads into a central hub, that DOES make sense, and fits nice with the large scale of the new E).

* Got no problem with lens flares. Gave the flick a signature look, and how when you see flares, you think “Star Trek.”

* Some neat tech. The tricorder was really only ever used in passing in one shot, maybe. How about self-repairing uniforms? Kirk’s gold gets cut, it stitches itself shut.

* Wish list time: botanical gardens. Remember that awesome overgrown garden in Sunshine? Imagine what that’d look like on the E. Same scale as the brewery (just CG the ceiling or something). Instead of having all the ship scenes in the same kind of places.

* Little more real science, little less “red matter.”

* Keep the universe fresh. I don’t care what happened in the series, it’s already been done. Don’t set up TNG. There’s so much more in the universe to happen.

* No villian. Problem. Less good vs evil, more right vs wrong and a crew trying to do the right thing.

* “We work to better ourselves, and the rest of humanity.” That’s Trek to me. Gotta throw that line in (it would have fit in so well in the bar scene).

* More quads! The quad was my favourite of the new ships (cause it didn’t look like the Reliant, in part). Give it a beauty shot or two.

221. Sam - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura is detrimental to both characters but I’ve seen many people focusing on Uhura (don’t get me wrong, I agree with their points) but what about Spock? My biggest nitpick with the movie was Spock’s actions regarding Uhura. Yes, it was funny the first time I saw her basically order him to change her to the Enterprise even though they were in a relationship and Spock had decided it would be a bad work environment (to avoid the appearance of favouritism). The second time…? I simply couldn’t imagine TOS Spock doing that. Now I know this is not TOS Spock, but until that point of the movie he’s not supposed to be a COMPLETELY different character, is he? It’s still *Spock*

Oh, and not everyone who dislikes Spock/Uhura ships Kirk/Spock. I just dislike Spock/Uhura.

PS. To whoever said that, since Kirk showed “more skin”, it was sexist to say Uhura taking off her clothes objectified her… um, that scene was 30% of her screen time (being hit on by Kirk and kissing/trying to provide moral support for her boyfriend being the remaining 70%). Kirk is the MAIN character, he’s fleshed out and vital to the plot. If he hadn’t overheard Uhura tell Gaila about the klingon birds-of-prey, what would her importance in the Nero-story be? She’s obviously very smart and capable, we just don’t get to see any evidence of that.

222. april - April 3, 2011

More women please.

I know that I’m supposed to be exited that Uhura’s role was greatly expanded from TOS. While it’s true she moved from C level to B+ (equivalent to McCoy, secondary only to Kirk and Spock) she was made more important in the least important way possible, aka the ‘love interest.’

This in and of it self wouldn’t be that much of an issue if there where other woman characters that we could look to. I mean, Spock is also the ‘love interest’ (and I guess as well) but we have McCoy, Pike, Scotty, Sulu, and Chekov as lovely characters not defined by who they love.

Women characters and their role in the plot:

Winona Kirk: Grieving widow; absent mother
Amanda: Devoted mother killed to facilitate Spock’s breakdown
Nero’s wife: Killed to facilitate his rage/madness
Gaila: Sex object

Male characters and their role in the plot:

McCoy: Doctor; devoted friend
Pike: Mentor/Father figure
Scotty: Talented engineer, makes things happen
Sulu: Talented helmsman; sword fighter
Chekov: Gifted Russian; comes up with a plan

The movie needs more women characters that are at least the equivalent to Sulu or Scotty and meet the following requirements.

1. We know their name and rank
2. They have an important/significant position (on the ship or as a plot point)
3. We know at least one ‘personal fact’ about them (as in- Chekov is Russian; Scotty likes sandwiches- not talking about mother’s maiden name)
4. They don’t die

This would be easy enough- there were already a lot of women in the background- some with lines even. Name them.

Bring in Number One as a Captain of another ship.
Chapel as a qualified nurse (who, for the love of god, McCoy doesn’t have to yell orders to in an emergency because she is a trained professional)
Yeoman Rand who doesn’t moon over Kirk.
Carol Marus as Kirk’s love interest- timing could be just right for David to be conceived and she was smart, independent in the original timeline.

223. Angel - April 3, 2011

Would be exciting have a twist to the plots with crossing over with the captains of the other franchises to defeat a villain bent on destroying Earth before the United Federations is formed…Well that happened in a way with First Contact anyway. But the diference with this is that all the captains from future franchises come into the scene because of a distress call that comes out of a warmhole. Once the plots are done, they are done. What about the plot for Star Trek 14?

224. Denise de Arman - April 3, 2011

When I took my 70-year-old mother to see the movie (she was a die-hard fan of Trek in the sixties), she exclaimed loudly enough for those in the theatre to hear, during the U/S kiss, “That would NEVER happen! He is her commanding officer!” Then, during the kissing scene on the transporter pad, she really went nuts. “What are the writers of this movie doing to Spock’s character? Uhura was never his girlfriend, I don’t care WHAT universe they are in…” and so forth. She certainly got the attention of about half the theatre with her protestations, and the topic was all we discussed in the car on the way home

And I agree with her. Spock would NEVER allow a cadet to touch him in the manner Uhura did, much less kiss him, no matter how grief-stricken he was. His very identity as a Vulcan was thrown out for the sake of a romance to draw in the female audience ( I assume that is why the writers chose that disappointing and inapproprite plot device.) I SO hope this badly-contrived aspect of the first Abrams film is ignored in future incarnations, and that the relationships between Kirk/ Spock / McCoy are fleshed out as Roddenberry and the sixties writers of the show did so well.

225. Grier - April 3, 2011

I agree with 221: not everyone who voted against S/U ships K/S (although I would like to see the development of the Kirk and Spock friendship, since it’s so firmly established in TOS yet we don’t get to see how they came to that point… anyway, rambling)

S/U makes no sense all on its own, forget other pairings! In fact, why are we focusing so much on the romance? Yes, this is a 21st century audience but have we really gotten to the point where we have to force a love story in order to keep the public’s interest? And enough of that “women wouldn’t watch it otherwise” crap, PLEASE. It’s REALLY annoying as a woman to hear that repeated constantly in these comments (oh, and it’s either that or I’m a slasher? Seriously?)

All this aside, I didn’t like Engineering but I don’t see how this can be changed (“Scotty, what happened to the last Engineering Deck?” “Ah, just a wee bit of remodelling done, Captain”). Unless we just add a proper Engineerign room and say we didn’t get to see it last time? Oh well, I trust the writers will do well. These are, after all, nitpicks, and the movie as a whole was perfectly enjoyable (the nods to TOS were especially fun to watch).

226. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

Mr. Bob Orci! … though I adore spoilers … surprise me with something really interesting! … :-) :-)

227. carlie - April 3, 2011

It always makes me laugh when people point to Man Trap and to Charlie X as some kind of evidence that a Spock and Uhura romance was always meant to be. In Man Trap, Uhura attempts to flirt with Spock and he is plainly bewildered rather than aroused. A few minutes later, Uhura is appalled when he fails to react to the news that a crewman has died,especially as it might be Kirk. Of course we know that Spock would definitely care if something happened to Kirk so it’s pretty clear that Uhura doesn’t even begin to grasp who he is and what makes him tick. In the same episode, the salt monster changes itself into Uhura’s ideal man, surely it must be Spock? Uh no, it’s a black guy who can speak her language and knows what she needs. Funny how Spock/Uhura shippers always leave that out.

In Charlie X, Uhura is plainly teasing Spock as she sings rather than attempting to inflame his passions and he smiles in response. At this point Leonard Nimoy and producers had yet to get a proper handle on the Spock characters. Indeed Nimoy say that only happened during the Corbomite Manoeuvre and it’s a good bet that smile would never have happened if the scene had appeared in a later episode.

Of course Nichelle is more than happy to insinuate that a Spock and Uhura romance was always on the cards. After 20 odd years of saying the same things at conventions, she now has a new topic of conversation. The truth is the pairing was considered as was Kirk/Rand. Both ideas were quickly junked because it was decided that giving a main character a regular love interest wouldn’t benefit the series and the new movie bears that out. Take out the Spock/Uhura romance and what would you lose? Spock would still be conflicted about feeling love for his mother and emotionally compromised by her loss.

I have been a fan of Star Trek for thirty years, mainly due to the strong friendship between Spock and Kirk. How many other characters would be prepared to sacrifice their careers, their families and their lives for each other? None that I can think of. It’s a testament to the enduring popularity of that pairing that 44 years later we are looking forward to a chance to see that friendship grow and develop. Personally I hope that Bob Orci et al don’t mess with that because of some desire to give a frankly uninteresting minor character more to do.

228. boborci - April 3, 2011

87. Agree! U go Sharra!

Not to mention, Kirk is after her from the minute they meet. he is the one you would expect to win her attention, but instead, the more mature and well behaved mr. Spock wins her attention.

229. Neumann - April 3, 2011

I can just picture a shot where Scotty walks through the brewery, passes through a door and he’s suddenly in a huge CG space with a giant Arc Reactor like in Iron Man, and all those pipes from the brewery become part of this big machine. A gag shot like Spock on the turbolift.

230. Iva - April 3, 2011

” mature and well behaved ”

Fascinating way to describe an emotionally unstable academy instructor who cheats on his wife, has an affair with one of his students and fixes her academy records, ignores his first officer duties and has random make out sessions in the middle of a red alert, ignores the chain of command as soon as the captain is out of the way and has rage attacks.

But I guess, what is doing her a career favor must be “mature and well behaved”.

231. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

224. Denise de Arman – April 3, 2011

As much as I think and have argued that S/U must end for Spock to become the same character we saw in TOS, I also think that it was an interesting move to put them together temporarily.

To show growth and change we actually have to be something different than what we become, or else there is no growth or change.

If S/U continues to expand in the sequel, then I think Spock is on his way to becoming a totally different character in the new franchise than he was in TOS.

The same is true of Kirk if he doesn’t mature.

But you HAVE to have a before to show the after if you are going to document the changes. I am hopeful that they will become the same personalities they were, otherwise we’ll have a Dirty Harry version of Spock:

“I know what you’r e thinking, punk. Did he set his phase to stun…or kill? Well, to tell you the truth, the numbers on the dial are a little worn out and hard to read, so I’m not really sure myself. The question you have to ask yourself is…do you feel lucky…punk…? Do ya?”

232. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

phase = phaser

233. boborci - April 3, 2011

94

When JJ read that story in the script, which we didn’t even tell him we were going to include, he said that it was one of the main reasons he decided to direct the movie.

That’s what we were thinking;)

234. boborci - April 3, 2011

230. Iva – April 3, 2011

Wife?

235. boborci - April 3, 2011

Fixes her records?

236. boborci - April 3, 2011

A favor?

237. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Hey Bob. One of the other things I did not like besides the Engineering room Brewery was the way the ship fired her weapons. I would rather see the Big E fire her Phasers and Torpedoes in a more Traditional way. Also the Hand Phasers have to be corrected as well. You can’t call them a hand phaser unless you get a phased beam to come out. The gun type shot simply does not work for the 23rd century.

238. Grier - April 3, 2011

boborci. Maybe she meant T’Pring?

239. Trekwebmaster - April 3, 2011

The two things which I found a bit “wonky” were the Redesigned Enterprise and the resulting “scale” issue. This little tidbit really inhibits the suspension of disbelief, especially after the fact. It’s kinda like the Barbie Doll dimensions; everyone knows that those stats aren’t realistic and it makes identifying with the item more difficult.

Engineering needs to be firmly established with no beer vats or 2000 era pipes and other gears and turning knobs. Don’t make it like the 1701-D, but update it from the TOS era ship, Redesign Main Engineering like Gabe Koerner’s TOS redesigned ship. Would be a nice touch while keeping with the new flavor of the refitted Big E.

Spock and Uhura – It would have been nice to see them perhaps growing as friends, the girl gets the guy when he has a vulnerable moment does not fit Spock, perhaps Kirk, but not Spock. Play on the mystique which captured the hearts of fans in TOS. They saw Spock as a “nut which COULD be cracked,” and it boosted interest and ratings, then hint at a possible “romance” much-like in AMOK TIME with Nurse Chapel. An unrequited love, perhaps. Spock would not allow behavior, especially early in his Starfleet career, I see Spock loosening-up later as in the 3rd season of TOS and the later movies…it’s logical, Admiral.

The Big E – I really like how the TMP version elements are maintained, but that ship is butt ugly, to me, personally. I really like Gabe Koener’s rendition. We know what that is even if it is different. Those angles on the new ship just don’t work, it’s rounded when it should be linear and linear where it should be rounded. IT’S NOT GRACEFUL, except for a very FEW shooting angles, otherwise it just don’t look right.

Take for instance the warp nacelles. The front brussard collectors just look wierd, almost phallic, and that does not belong on the Big E, not even a hit of suggestion should be present to resemble a phallus. The aft end of them are nice, but those caps have to go — My God, Jim, those things look like foreskins on that thing.

The REFIT needs a REFIT…lol. Even Scotty wouldn’t approve (USS EXCELSIOR.) Need I say more?

Sorry JJ and crew, not being nasty, but only offering my 2 cents!

240. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

# 230 – Iva

Wow… what? … no way… I think I’m out of it… I prefer to see if #228 – boborci will answer that…. LOL

I loved Spock and Uhura, by the way … Uhura did a node in “the arrogant young Kirk”… I loved it!

241. MikeB - April 3, 2011

As a life long Trek fan, I had no problem with the Spock/Uhura thing. I would just like to see it addressed realistically – whether they stay together or move apart.
My only real gripes in an otherwise fantastic film are with the engineering set (of course) and also with Scotty. The character had depth in the series, so I really hope that he’s more than a wisecracking spaz in the next film.
Can’t wait for the next film – hope JJ directs!!!l

242. Aurore - April 3, 2011

233

Clever man, that Jeffrey Jacob Abrams…

Next time you see him , say hello on my behalf. Thanks.

:)

243. Neumann - April 3, 2011

It’s not cheating if you’re not married… or dating… or on the same planet.

Spock’s wedding ceremony, timeline-wise, wasn’t until after the events of the movies. So he’s not married. He’s promised to another.

This is also a race of people who need to mate every seven years or die. They’re also an interplanetary culture, so they might not always be together at the right time (it happened to Tuvok). So you have to figure that there are permitted exceptions. Not that this is ONE of them, but if this exception exists, perhaps their are others. I’m thinking of the scene in “Coming To America” where James Earl Jones tells Eddie Murphy to “sow his royal oats” before his wedding.

And if I remember correctly, T’Pring didn’t love Spock anyway, so who gives a damn?

244. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

Yes… boborci answered…. LOL and +LOL

Is the real “boborci”, right?

:-):-)

245. Chadwick Adams - April 3, 2011

“With regards to the past article about story and script writing, the terms are interchangeable but only to a certain degree.

Think about it, a story is a story but a script is a screenplay, lines or actions to be acted out.

Therefore I submit all scripts are stories but not all stories are scripts.

246. Trekwebmaster - April 3, 2011

Ack, just thought of something.

About SPOCK / UHURA – The only way (exposition) which could have justified the S/U relationship would have been if Uhura had accompanied Spock down on the away team to rescue Sarek, Amanda, and others. If she had have been there and saw what happened with her own eyes, a moment of compassionate empathy / kiss could be justified and then explained away when both realize they are officers and professional conduct wouldn’t allow this kind of interaction, which could later breed great tension between S/U, with both of them knowing the other MIGHT be interested but their careers will not allow it, which increases the tension. Later this could be a tool to use to explain why they are great friends, because they had this in common and for a brief moment, each knew what the other felt without words, Vulcan telepathy and Human empathy perhaps?

247. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

234.

Um, Bob, I think the “wife” comment is referring to T’Pring. Spock himself referred to her as his “wife” in Amok Time. Betrothed since childhood and all that stuff.

248. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

I do not believe it! … people are talking about a supposed marriage of the young Spock… and calling him a “cheater”… LOL

Mr. Bob Orci is definitely time for a new movie!!!! … soon as possible… tell everyone! LOL and +LOL

:-) :-)

249. Chadwick Adams - April 3, 2011

More daring” = sweet sweet music to my ears. Really exciting to know their point of view on the freedom and experimenting going on with the story.

I was 4 when TNG started along with TOS reruns and thus began my trek. A 24 year veteran and I’m excited about all these new changes to Star Trek not appalled by them.

The lens flares and shaky cam were only a problem in the movie theatre, that is where they really take the toll, I guess because the screen is in your vision and peripheral, I was feeling a little sick at the end. But at home on my 50″ plasma in blu-ray, I have watched it probably over 30 times without a problem.

I didn’t have a problem with Kirk becoming captain too fast or too young. Look at today’s military. Yes most of the brass is 40 and over, but other lower high ranking officers like captains are in their 30’s some even in their late 20’s. So in one breath its hard to imagine a 28 year old commanding a large, powerful starship, and in another breath its not hard to imagine.

250. Kev-1 - April 3, 2011

Once they made a decision to go with a younger cast they kind of had no choice but to take away Kirk’s backstory (the lab tech, “think or sink” in Lieutenant KIrk’s class, Kodos, Ruth?, Capt. Garrovick, et. al) and the rebel angle nixed “stack of books with legs” and “positively grim” — Kirk’s self-description from “Shore Leave” –as well. They should try to deal with it without joking ,though. Field promotion is one thing but knowledge is another. The scene in “Farpoint” comes to mind. Riker comes aboard after the Q battle and Picard immediately asks him to recover the saucer section — manually– Riker does it because he’s qualified on that equipment. Some things, presumably, take time to master, even if you’re as smart as this Kirk is supposed to be.

251. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

Hmmmm …. I thought we were in an alternate universe… until the mother of Spock died in “Star Trek 2009″….LOL

:-) :-)

252. Lt L'Kat - April 3, 2011

There are a lot of these that I agree with. Like 230, 227, 221, 215 & 210. Just because I disliked the S/U subplot in the movie doesn’t make me a slasher. I just think the relationship has negative effects on both Uhura and Spock’s characters and both characters would be stronger without the relationship. It also promots bad traits to the public and impressionable youths watching the movie. Are we supposed to be okay as women as being a sex object who is only glorified by how the men can make use of us? Is it okay for men to have affairs or illicit affairs with students? To bend rules for them?

I like that the writers were trying to make Uhura more than a glorified receptionist but think they kind of went the wrong way. Instead of a receptionist she is a scheming bitch who is having illicit affair with a teacher and blackmailing him into changing her posting. A posting that likely wouldn’t have been perminant anyway as it was a emergency situation and no-one had graduated yet according to the movie.

And Spock, well Spock doesn’t come across well either. He is barley Vulcan in the movie and comes across more emotionaly volitile than Kirk who drives a car off a cliff and gets in bar fights! Plus he is also engaged in a morally questionable relationship with a student, who he doesn’t really seem to have a strong emotional bond with (like 215 pointed out) and is cheating on his “wife” (who fandom knows he really doesn’t care for, but still).

There is also the fact that since Uhura basically forces him to change her assignment to Enterprise, Starfleet can then assume he changed all her other grades and essentually make her do all the class over again that he was her instructor for or just out-and-out discharge both of them. Which of course is bad for both of them as well as the rest of the crew. Because with those kind of marks on their records they aren’t likely to get any good postings no matter their skills.

253. Chadwick Adams - April 3, 2011

There were a few things that bothered me but could only vote for one.
Destruction of Vulcan
Little Nero backstory/understanding
Brewery used for engineering

Destruction of Vulcan was just wrong, wrong wrong wrong. But I am not going to debate it. I didn’t like it, it got my vote but its happened, lets just move on.

I personally feel the Klingon Rura Penthe Nero backstory should have been in the movie, it was so beautifully done, it explained a lot and it was just so blindly cut. I hate when editors say it has to go because it has to be under two hours. The Rura Penthe scene was short enough it could have been left in. So then why not add it to the movie (not just extras) for the DVD and blu-ray release? It would have been a nice treat. Or maybe for the extended or directors edition which we all know will be out sooner or later.

The brewery has to go and warp core come in!!!! If anyone dares to argue that there was no warp core in the TOS Enterprise you are sadly mistaken. Look at cross section images of the Enterprise, there is clearly a double cylindrical core (going up and down as well as forward and aft like the Motion Picture warp core) but it is located beneath the main engineering deck we have always seen in TOS. The warp core Engineering could be done, it could stay the scale of Voyager or the TMP Engineering. The warp core sketches done for the 2009 movie were way too big, it was huge, like it was V’ger’s engineering, no wonder it was not in the budget. If the new ship is as large as 1701D there is no need for an engine room larger than that.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/drex/constitution-cutaway.jpg

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/gus/1701-gus2.jpg

254. Jackie - April 3, 2011

Bob – can’t wait to see what you come up with this next time around.

I personally don’t have an issue with S/U, I can’t really believe that for 2½ minutes of total screen time they have that, that could totally take someone out of the movie and ruin it for them, sorry, just sounds a bit silly to me. I also don’t understand why Uhura can’t have a career and also a love interest too? It doesn’t take away from her character, nor do I think it relegates her to ‘girlfriend only’ material either, I guess it’s a matter of interpretation. I just don’t see it as taking away from the trifecta (Kirk/Spock/McCoy) in any way. If the characters are written well, it won’t do that. Besides if Mr. Nimoy didn’t have a problem with it, then I don’t either.

I also don’t see Spock as being too OOC either, this NOT TOS. Therefore this won’t be the same Spock, it is AU, this is a reboot. There are going to be differences and this Spock is younger. How do we know that Nimoy’s Spock wasn’t like this when he was younger? For heaven’s sake, he sure was smiling a lot in the original pilot with Jeffrey Hunter, and he was portrayed as alot more emotional. I think in the reboot it pushes the envelope for that character and I’m all for that.

I also went to see the movie with my Mum (who is in her Seventies, sorry Mum for blabbing) and her take on the military aspect was an interesting one. Here’s what she said: We seem to be forgetting that this is a ‘United Federation of Planets’ the military mores wouldn’t be the same as what we’re used to because of the different species that make up Starfleet. She didn’t have an issue with Uhura and Spock, she said that it’s kind of clear in the scene regarding the Farragut that Uhura is speaking past tense, “Was I not one of your top students?” not “Am I not one of your top students?” so not really any chain of command issue there (though once on the Enterprise it could be a bit more problematic.)

As for the transporter scene, well my Mum’s take was that she would have done the same with my Dad (my Dad was career military and they’ve been married over 50 years) she got emotional the last time my Dad was deployed during war time, so I have to forgive Uhura the 30 seconds there on the transporter pad. I mean hey, morals be damned, if I’m going to forgive Bones for knowingly injecting a vaccine into a person that he knows will make them sick to smuggle them onboard after they’ve gotten suspended for cheating; then the least I can do is not condemn a character for saying what could possibly be goodbye for the last time. Again, just my interpretation.

#230 Iva – As far as the mentions of T’Pring, umm..again this is AU, it’s not been mentioned that Spock was betrothed to T’Pring in this universe. Therefore the ‘wife’ thing, well it isn’t there. And Spock doesn’t fix Uhura’s academy records, his reassigning her has nothing to do with that. I guess it’s that interpretation thing again.

So anyways Bob, carry on and I’ll patiently wait until next year to see what you’ve come up with. (OMG now I’ve said it, NEXT YEAR, we have to wait until NEXT YEAR!)

255. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

254.

Nice post, Jackie!

256. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

Even in ST.09 Spock Prime experiences emotion but there is a disconnect between feeling and action that has come to define the character and the Vulcans in general, and which distinguish them from Romulans who are otherwise similar to Vulcans.

That’s the point of Spock. Not that he doesn’t have emotion, but that emotion doesn’t drive him the way it drives humans, which leads to some of the misunderstandings between Spock and McCoy in TOS.

And part of the issue with S/U is that emotion there does seem to drive Spock in pretty much the same way it drives humans, making the point of his character less important.

I do buy it as something that might happen under the circumstances.

But I would only buy it temporarily if I am expected to believe at the same time that young Spock and Spock Prime really are the same character. I don’t see how you can leave such a major part of his identity behind and still call him the same, anymore than I can see how James Kirk would be the same Kirk from TOS if he doesn’t mature into a leader.

257. StarTrekGal - April 3, 2011

Bob,

The Spock/Uhura relationship adds so much to both of their characters that I can’t imagine the alternate universe without it. Those posters who have trouble with it should read some of the terrific fanfiction being written that explores the origins and ramifications of S/U. It’s a rich narrative field that has pulled lots of Star Trek skeptics into this world…many of them women who thought that ST was just for geeky fanboys who like to argue about the color of the running lights on the new nacelles….(just saying…)

I certainly hope the S/U relationship continues in the sequel. Their tenderness with each other is a welcome counterpoint to all the action and excitement. At any rate, I trust you and the other writers to come up with a terrific story. Thanks so much for all the pleasure the ST XI has already afforded us!

258. Denise de Arman - April 3, 2011

Mr. Bob#228- With all due respect, the description of Spock as being mature and well-behaved is a misnomer insofar as his actions in this film attest: let me elaborate.

When Cadet Kirk cheats on Spock’s test, Spock goes strictly by the book and attempts to get Kirk thrown out of the Academy. However, later on the Enterprise, that same by-the-book instructor allows a cadet to kiss him multiple times, even in front of other crewmembers. This is something a human military officer probably would not allow, much less a Vulcan.

Remember the turbolift scene in Mudd’s Women where the divas attempt their seduction routines on Spock and Mudd tells them it is a lost cause because Spock is Vulcan? Other episodes paired him up with women, but only when he was under the influence of outside forces. The only time Spock ever paid attention to a woman sans outside forces was with the lovely Droxine, a third-season poorly-written ep that not only had Spock flirting, but had Kirk physically fighting with the leader of a Federation planet, a script on the same level as Spock’s Brain.

To summerize, the character of Spock in your film is so different from the TOS character, as well as the character in all the other Star Trek movies, that he has lost a great deal of what makes him special, and more alien. I do not believe Spock in any universe would welcome the attentions of Uhura, and certainly not while he is her instructor at the Academy.

259. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

So sure, if you want to pin S/U on the alternate universe explanation, you can do that, but that would be inconsistent with the proposition that these are the same characters, that despite what hardships that unfolded their lives differently from what they might have been, that they still managed against the odds to become the same people. And that idea is what we saw. Kirk overcame the odds to become captain again because he was the same person he was in TOS. Circumstances of their lives were different, but Kirk had the same winning personality that enabled him to triumph anyway.

260. AEverson - April 3, 2011

257, I say you have a valid point but I would also like to point out that none of the K/S are out here demanding/asking for a more blatant homosexual relationship for Kirk and Spock. I don’t think S/U needs to be part of the film to draw in new fans or to create a good story line. TOS managed to do that for decades without Spock and Uhura as a couple and both characters seemed to be all the stronger for it.

And as for the engineering room, it would be nice to see a recognizable warp core, but honestly the scene in there was small so you could just point out they were in a different section from where the warpcore is.

261. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

Interestingly, even the bearded Spock in Mirror, Mirror was relentlessly logical and much the same. Logic, it seems, is transferable between the universes.

262. Trek Fan - April 3, 2011

The original Star Trek was great because it dealt with political social issues of the time. The main trilogy of Kirk, Spock and Bones was crucial as the charters represent one’s mind, one’s heart and how to balance the two. This is what the new movie mostly lacked, the character of Dr. McCoy interjecting human emotion. Uhura and Vulcan being destroyed may have added tension, but there were no deep issues brought to light in this new incarnation. I think the writers should focus on tackling the big questions rather than action sequences to make for a more thought provoking movie.

263. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

If I get it right Spock was punishing Uhura not to send her to take a position in the Enterprise … yes he was concerned about the opinions of others… Uhura was right to impose himself and remind him that she had all the qualifications to be in the Enterprise… and there is no reason to think she was not the best student… Uhura She is, after all!

Now if there was another way of putting her in the Enterprise is another story … but I liked Star Trek 2009 … and I did not feel offended as a woman because of this…

:-) :-)

264. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

Seems the HARD CORE fans really want to see a WARP CORE!

If it looks anything like the Bridge, wouldn’t that make it an APPLE CORE?

I keed, Bob, I keed!

265. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

And Ponn Farr is a time when emotion drives the Vulcan even worse than it drives humans in many cases, perhaps the price for keeping your emotions separated from your actions.

In that sense Ponn Farr is a Vulcan cycle that stretches the time between feeling and acting out that humans feel on a much shorter measure of time. So it’s as if Vulcans are behaving the same way but on a much slower timescale and in more ritualistic patterns.

266. AJ - April 3, 2011

224: Denise:

Hey, Sweetheart ;-)

If Spock is to have a life outside of the demands put on him as a Starfleet Commander, where would he find it? The bars in San Francisco? I think many Starfleeters, in the enlightened 23rd Century, would certainly forge romantic relationships within Starfleet. Just judging from the views of the campus, it looks like a meat market ;-)

The way Orci & Kurtzman ‘did’ Spock in ST09 made him far more of a deep emotional being than your pal Leonardo’s Spock ever was, especially in his early days

Following young Spock’s fist-fight after class, Sarek makes it clear that it’s the Vulcan side which is working in tandem with his human desire for retribution. Uhura, after the destruction of Vulcan, acts as a kind of convenient buffer for Spock, but it is Sarek in the end who puts him to rights. And I give kudos to Ben Cross for filling unfillable shoes.

As of I’ve mentioned, my daughter (8 at the time) also thought the S/U relationship was “wrong” (TOS indoctrination as she grew up). Let’s see what the boys come up with next!

267. Thorny - April 3, 2011

I accepted the Spock/Uhura kiss because Spock Prime clearly states that he is “emotionally compromised” after the destruction of Vulcan, so presumably Young Spock was just as emotionally compromised as well, and we also saw Spock let loose his emotions in the absence of a strong Vulcan “mind link” to his civilization in “All Our Yesterdays”. No problem with that, for me.

214. Rebecca… It isn’t that Kirk was too young in my opinion, it is that he is too inexperienced. As far as we know, he’d never served a day on a starship before the events of “Star Trek 2009″. But he is Captain something like a few days after graduating from the Academy.

As Mr. Sternbach noted, there is precedence for that in Science Fiction, I just don’t see how we’re going to get anything like the same James T. Kirk in this alternate universe as we did in the original Trekverse.

268. Robert H. - April 3, 2011

The stupid thing about people complaining about Kirk’s rapid promotion, he was made first officer by Pike, Spock resigned command to Kirk, and Kirk defeated Nero. How often are acting captains who pretty much showed the world they are more than competent and capable of commanding a starship are rewarded by being demoted back down to ensign or whatever?

And the budgineering issue, gee seeing a bunch of storage tanks and pipes in a starship sounds sort of, how shall I put it? Common? Who hasn’t heard of a starship without storage tanks? Especially when it comes to things like water, deuterium, and so forth. And how are they suppose to get to where they need to go? Beam everything?

269. Misplaced - April 3, 2011

Movie is just fine as-is. Good grief, I’ve been a Trekkie since infancy, but as a creative person, I believe more in enjoying a good story than watching something with the intent of noticing every canon violation, inconsistency and baby-whining when the writers hook-up a pair of characters when I’ve put them in a different relationship in my mind.

In other words: As proud as I am to be a Trekkie, I don’t think that writers should EVER pander to the fans…because as a group, we tend to be just as narrow-minded and stupidly prejudice as a lynch mob.

The 2009 film brought so many to the Trek fandom that would have never looked even cross-eyed at any of the series or previous films. Some joined the fandom SOLELY because of the Spock/Uhura dynamic. Some because they loved Kirk’s over-the-top bad-assery.

When you start to pander (especially in an attempt to keep the “old guard” Trek fans happy — which, is impossible, because most love to tear down any new Trek more than they love Trek itself), then you lose good story-telling. Everything becomes a contrivances, nothing feels natural and the film will be bland and forced. Yeah, say goodbye to a box-office hit in that case.

Wanna kill the Trek franchise for good? Then please, by all means, use this poll as the writing guideline for the next film–because, you know, all of us Trekkies have Oscars and Golden Globes on our shelves for our own screenwriting endeavors. We would definitely know best. *rolls eyes*

270. Maj - April 3, 2011

I admit to enjoying the action in 2009 and it’s probably a given we’ll see more space battles next time, etc . . .

But, as a fan of intellectually-driven Trek, I would like to see more. Maybe more scientific mystery, perhaps a little mystical intrigue too?

No, I don’t mean issues like “god” or whatever. I mean, okay, like say the Enterprise stumble upon a Moon somewhere, and they go on an away mission and then they find ruins and all that kind of ‘exploration’ stuff, then aliens from another dimension take over the ship or something! and the whole plot goes crazy from there!

I wanna see Exploration. But if we must stick to the usual Trek then I’d like to see a classic warfare plot. Something to do with the Neutral Zone maybe? or they find the Iconian gateways and then something else happens later. I don’t know, something like that! lol

271. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

269. “I don’t think that writers should EVER pander to the fans”

The writers aren’t necessarily pandering, maybe they’re just LISTENING.

“You know how to listen, don’t you? Just open your two ears and shut up!”

272. yorkie - April 3, 2011

Please use a timetravel story to put the universe back to normal otherwise all Trek we know so far is destroyed
Kirk prime could be in the movie using timetravel where the new crew go forward intime and meet Kirk who helps them to return to a normal universe.
The engine room sucks
Please no more shakycam or lens flares it gets on your nerves after a while

273. Iva - April 3, 2011

New people have joined the fandom…. actually, new people have joined abrams movie fan circle, not star trek fandom. They might give themselves trek-related usernames on message boards, or buy a nutrek shirt because it is “cool” to show you have one, but that is all there is to it.
No further interest, no expectations, no substance, no understanding, no nothing. Twilight generation.

274. Kleinefee92 - April 3, 2011

It all comes down to the characterization. Many evils can be forgiven if they get the characters right.

We need to see Kirk growing into the captain we all know he can be, still keeping some of the harder edges that this new universe has given him, but managing to use those edges to his and the crew’s benefit in his role as captain of the Enterprise. If it is at all possible, it would be great if the writers could resist the urge to make him a womanizer, because TOS Kirk wasn’t, contrary to popular belief, willing to sleep with anything that moved.

One of my issues with XI was Chekov’s characterization. I read somewhere that in TOS he was meant to be a “young Captain Kirk” personality-wise, and as adorable as Chekov was in XI, I just didn’t see much of his TOS personality present. Maybe that’s because we barely see him in this film and when we do he’s typically only got a few lines, but I would like to see more development of his character, and a more mature, self-assured, less humorous version.

And then there’s Uhura…. The Uhura of TOS, played by the lovely Nichelle Nichols brought so much class to the Enterprise Bridge Crew, and I think we definitely need to see more of that in her characterization in this next film, and any films to follow.

275. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

Iva, tell me, what’s your full name…..Iva Closedmind?

276. reb - April 3, 2011

Dear Mr. Orci & Abrams,

Do not sacrifice any entertainment value or whatever visually made your film successful to satisfy the petty niggling desires of ST fans who want conformity to any of the ST TV shows.

This is a different time & different world. Your 2009 film, though a much better film, still made far less than “Transformers 2″ A very bad movie with decent vfx.

I enjoyed Uhura being pursued by Kirk but having a relationship w/ Spock. Those who complain about student teacher/relationships in a military academy should grow up. It happens…everywhere.

Also those who dismiss Uhura as merely a sex object fail to remember Uhura’s contribution to solving the mystery of what was going on between Neroe’s rogue Romulans and the Klingon prison and her quick promotion due to her specialized and advance linguistic skills.

BTW,I suspect many of those who are in opposition to Spock/Uhura are K/S fans or “slash” fans who want that “fan” implied relationship replicated in your films. If you must make a sop to them, you might have Uhura arriving with an Away rescue team arriving to find Kirk and Spock huddled for warmth together asleep. Or some such “Wha?” moment. Could be funny and a way to win them to you. If u must.

My friend asked me what was ST about? “Loss,” I answered. How do Kirk, Spock and Nero each deal with with gut wretching loss and how do they prevent further loss. Spock loses the most . That alone makes him a far different person than TOS Spock . BTW, there is no reason your Spock should conform to the TOS Spock in any way. (Though bringing in T’Pring might be fun & bring in conflict w/ Uhura and Kirk.)

There’s only element I’d like to see added and was the biggest glaring hole in the film: an over arching scientific theme or question.

The theme of “Loss” and what that would be a mere sub-theme in an average ST:NG or even TOS episode while dealing with a larger question i.e what if that hideous monster killing colonists is actually a sentient protecting her eggs. i.e “Devil in the Dark” What if we’re “the bad guys”?

That’s a theme I wouldn’t mind seeing explored again.

277. I am not Herbert - April 3, 2011

biggest nitpicks:

poor “science”

poor “design”

poor “cinematography”

poor “humor / references”

278. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

Poor? That’s rich!

279. Denise de Arman - April 3, 2011

AJ#266- Hey yourself Sweetie!

My whole point with my post to Mr. Bob was to question his reference to Spock as being “mature” and “well-behaved”. Mature and well-behaved college instructors do not welcome physical interactions with their students, much less at military institutions. First he tries to get Kirk kicked out of the Academy for cheating on his test, then later you see him kissing one of his own students. A bit hypocritical, do you not think? The Spock I know NEVER lacked integrity – the Spock in this movie did.

280. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

Alternate behaviour in an alternate reality?? Well, what do you know!! :>)

281. Denise de Arman - April 3, 2011

And just what are you implying, Mr. Ballz?

282. Denise de Arman - April 3, 2011

And just what are you implying, Mr. Ballz?

283. MJ - April 3, 2011

@185 “boborci: Make the Enterprise a character in the sequel, not just a ship they happen to be on. PLEASE!”

Agreed. I’d like them to have a voice-over for the Enterprise characters (perhaps Julia Roberts), and I like the see the Enterprise talk and socially engage with other starships as well…perhaps having a romantic interest with the Farragut (voiced over by Russel Crowe?). Having the Enterprise being able to morph a bit like a transformer would also add to its character. And finally, it should be called by its nickname, “E.”

284. MJ - April 3, 2011

@277. No, you are most definitely Herbert.

285. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

Overall, I loved the movie. Yes, there are some plot stretches that are a little hard to swallow, but I think they have more to do with the time constraints of writing the script to beat the strike, coupled with “getting the band together”. I don’t really have a problem with Spock/Uhura. Spock is not Vulcan; he is half-Vulcan. I know in TOS he was played as “more Vulcan than the Vulcans”, but playing him as more in touch with his human side is a valid option for such a character. Besides, hooking up with an Earth woman worked out pretty well for his Dad!

I originally thought the score was a bit generic. However, after multiple viewings of my DVD, it has grown on me.

Here is what does bother me:

– Engineering. I get why they did what they did. However, it still looks like they’re running around in a brewery. I could see using the factory judiciously, as some part of engineering would likely look like a factory, but it still needed a control room. Having computer stations sprinkled throughout didn’t work for me, and put those parts of the movie dangerously close to Space Mutiny territory.

-Ship design. This is not a big gripe. For the most part, I actually like the design. From the side, she looks quite nice, and compares favorably as a modern take on the TOS Big E. The big nacelles don’t bother me much except for the fact that they are TOO CLOSE TOGETHER! If they spaced them out more in proportion to TOS and TMP designs, the look would improve measurably.

286. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

281-2.

Hey, I heard you the first time, sweetcheeks!!

Implying? Nothin’! Nope, nothin’ at all! Nothing to see here! Move along!

(p.s. hope you’re feeling better!)

287. Denise de Arman - April 3, 2011

Feeling much better, Mr. Ballz – went to my third kickboxing session yesterday and beat the crap out of a punching bag.

Good to hear that you were not implying anything…

288. Rocket Scientist - April 3, 2011

I just didn’t like Kirk’s character arc at all. Shat-Kirk was confident and maybe even a bit cocky because he was a man of accomplishment. He wasn’t a brash punk. Because TOS was helmed by people who lived extraordinary lives before they came to Hollywood (Roddenberry, Coon, et. al.), their creation was informed by their experiences. Their work had a subtext of depth and realism. You can’t fake that. Pine-Kirk’s new backstory reads more like a comic book. Loved Pine’s performance, hated the material he had to deliver.

289. Starbase Britain - April 3, 2011

Dear Mr Orci,

Can we make sure we state ‘THE LANDING PARTY’ in the new film and not refer to it as ‘The Away Team’. I’d hate to see that changed. We’ve already lost ‘Where no man has gone before’ , so in keeping with the original series i’d like to hear it called The Landing Party for old times sake.

Cheers
Thank you
Greg UK

290. Iva - April 3, 2011

Universe “got split” at the point when Nero entered the black hole. Everything before that moment is the same as in the Gene universe.
The only ones that should have had life and personality altered are the ones directly affected by the destruction of Kelvin and only to the point they have been affected.

So no – “this is alternate = no rules apply” does not hold water.

The people we see roleplaying in the abrams movie should have been the same people Gene created + the changes some of them got by being affected by destruction of Kelvin.
Since at that point in time both T’Pring’s parents and Spock’s parents have been adults with fully developed personalities, their methods of bringing up are the same as before, Spock’s genetic make up is again predominately Vulcan which leaves him no choice but to act as a Vulcan, Spock does in fact have a wife (as he himself calls her) and a mental link to her that keeps them aware of each other and his Pon Farr will come later than it does to full-blooded Vulcans.

There are no real life basis for the level of change in Spock in the abrams movie when compared to the real Gene version.

291. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

@289

Iva, you are assuming that the destruction of the Kelvin only affected Kirk directly. I’m sure with a little creative thought, one could (I’m not saying one SHOULD, just that one COULD) come up with a cohesive “Butterfly Effect” story to cover what you perceive as incorrect variances in character behavior.

292. Iva - April 3, 2011

“I enjoyed Uhura being pursued by Kirk but having a relationship w/ Spock. Those who complain about student teacher/relationships in a military academy should grow up. It happens…everywhere.”

Since Starfleet Academy is not a ghetto high school where such things are normal everyday occurrences which bear no consequences,
nor is Spock’s upbringing bad,
there is no realistic way he as a person would have found himself in that situation in the first place or,
in the fairytale world where he would – failed to report himself and accept the disciplinary measures.

293. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Fix the Phasers on the Hand Phasers. Bring back the traditional Phasers and Torpedoes

294. Sarah - April 3, 2011

I loved the reboot the night it premiered, and I still do. As a huge TOS fan, I was quite impressed by how true the film was to the series/characters in most ways (especially considering the very difficult task set before the writers, J.J., etc.). Any minor flaws in characterization or plot were easily forgiven, for me anyway (I am of course aware of how harshly other hardcore fans tend to criticize it); the movie was truly wonderful in so many other respects that I see no reason to dwell on the not-so-awesome elements. And many plot elements and character behaviors that deviated from what we know of TOS were not only completely understandable due to the changes in the timeline, but quite intriguing as well.

HOWEVER, there is one plot development that, no matter how hard I try, I just can’t get past, and that is the romantic relationship between Spock and Uhura. It is a pairing that simply makes no sense canonically. Even a deep friendship between them is stretching it (though I find that idea much more forgivable, even if it is still a level of interaction between them never reached in the series/movies). I know that it is pointless to hope that the next film will end (or begin, even better) with Spock and Uhura as friends only. I understand that even if the writers really stop to evaluate the interactions between the characters in canon and decide that friendship is the better option, it would be very difficult to separate them at this point. After all, what sense does it make (in most cases) to begin a romantic relationship between two characters only to basically say “oops, nevermind” in the next one? But ultimately, which is the more difficult and canonically dangerous task – ending a budding (and sort of awkwardly founded) romance between Spock and Uhura, or attempting to form the deep, intriguing, epic, truly famous friendship between Spock and his new captain while Spock is (I assume) focused on a new romantic attachment? How, as well, can the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship/dynamic come together as marvelously as it did in TOS if Spock does not begin to understand and even accept his human half from his interactions with these two companions (mostly Kirk, of course), rather than a girlfriend? These two relationships (the Kirk-Spock friendship and the K-S-Mc trifecta) are the only elements that I am truly worried about as a result of this Spock/Uhura romance. 

I think that, in terms of writing, this next film is in good hands, and I’d like to hope that, even if the romance stays and develops further, they will take great effort to write it with care and give priority to the far more important elements and character relationships. Those things must take precedence if these new reboot films truly seek to portray (or contribute to the development of) the characters we know and love. And unlike Scotty, the Spock we know from canon would never have entered a romantic relationship with Uhura, no matter how much he came to respect her or enjoy her companionship. That is another concern I have, actually – if we are expected to suddenly accept a Spock/Uhura pairing, what about Scott’s romantic future? 

There are many, many reasons why Kirk and Spock form one of the most famous duos in fictional history. As we can observe by a great number of episodes in the series and most if the TOS films, they were “two parts of a whole” (as Roddenberry put it), each the “nobler half” of the other (as Kirk put it). They knew each other “better than anyone in the universe” (Kirk again). In contrast, the relationship between Spock and Uhura, awesome as she was and as much as they cared for each other, never even crossed over into a notable friendship for reasons that, if we really know their characters (and contrary to certain claims I often encounter), have nothing to do with what television shows could or could not portray in the sixties.

To the writers, if they happen to read this semi-coherent rambling: I trust you and respect you, as many Trek fans do. But please, don’t let the important friendships that everyone expects to see develop be lessened or sacrificed for a romantic affiliation that never even almost occurred in canon (unless you count a brief but forever dismissed consideration on Roddenberry’s part). The fans who truly know and love TOS will appreciate adherence to canon (i.e. Spock’s true nature which would preclude romantic interest in Uhura and the future Uhura/Scott relationship), and the viewers/fans who are invested in Spock/Uhura are surely not the majority, and will eventually accept whatever you must do if you handle it properly. Either way, and despite my own concerns, I believe that you guys will give us a great sequel, and I wish you luck on the (surely) difficult road ahead!

My main issue, in agreement with many people on this board, is the Spock/Uhura relationship. There are many reasons, nearly all of which have been stated several times at this point, but here is where I am most concerned:

One thing I never understand is why many people are eager to say, “Hey, it’s an alternate universe; they can do whatever they want now! Different universe, different characters; why shouldn’t Spock finally get a girl this time?” I know that it’s technically an AU (in fact, I think that’s awesome), and most of the subsequent changes from the universe we know make sense to me. Especially the changes in Kirk’s character – the guy had an almost completely different childhood/adolescence because of the Kelvin incident. But why would Spock be so different that he’d seek a deep friendship and even romantic relationship with Uhura? Nothing about his upbringing or time at the Academy should have been so different that he felt the need to pursue or accept either type of emotional relationship, in my opinion. Even in the original series (the Man Trap), after Uhura finishes flirting with Spock (to which he responds with little more than pretty obvious consternation), she calls Kirk the “closest thing [he has] to a friend,” indicating that she does not really know him, and that she knows she certainly does not fit into that category. And yet they have a relationship in the reboot, even prior to the events that would leave Spock understandably emotionally compromised?

I accept that the TOS timeline has been skewed in a very serious way, but this particular aspect of Spock’s character in the reboot, in my opinion, cannot really be justified. His destiny may have indeed changed from that of his older counterpart, but why would his essential nature, which clearly prevented Spock Prime from desiring any relationship with Uhura in the VERY long time that they knew each other? We cannot say that this is because in the TOS series and films Spock never let himself feel; his friendships with Kirk and McCoy show that he was indeed very emotional (even if he resisted overt expressions of it as often as possible) when the time called for it.

A relationship that makes very little sense (and requires one of the main characters to be so OOC) can be fairly easily transitioned back into friendship, but if we must see more Spock/Uhura in the next movie (and it appears that a considerable number would prefer not to), I just hope that something is done to help it make sense. And that it plays a very, very small part in the plot.

295. Leatherman - April 3, 2011

This wasn’t one of the nitpicks listed, but how about a little less “Star Wars” and a little more “Star Trek” in our next Star Trek movie? All of movie-going America is not suffering from ADD. We don’t need explosions and sexual tension every thirty seconds. At its core Star Trek has always been a more cerebral form of sci-fi entertainment. How about some well written dialogue in a conversation that might last more than one minute? Star Trek has always dealt with “issues”. I understand that the franchise needed a little shaking up, but let’s not forget our roots.

296. MetalB - April 3, 2011

292 Alyson – Spock is HER man and has suffered the brutal of losses, home planet, most of his people, his mother and who knows how many other family members — so yes, she should ‘fixate’ on him. No one else on that ship suffered what he suffered. No one.

My nitpick was the rapid promotion of Kirk. Otherwise, I thought the movie was fine as it was. I absolutely adore the new romance between Spock and Uhura and hope it continues. Writers, please do not give into “purist” and “S/K” fangirls. In no way did this relationship dumb down Uhura. Perhaps the real problem was that she didn’t stay quiet and minded her manners, you know, like a good sexless trophy girl.

I found it rather refreshing that you have made these characters (all of them) similar and yet different. This is after all a new universe with harsher less innocent experiences. These ARE not the same people we met in the prime universe. Hence, to make them the same would be ludicrous to say the least.

Keep up the good work guys.

297. alyson - April 3, 2011

Ok, here’s my beef. Sure, Uhura didn’t get a lot of screen time in TOS, but that doesn’t mean we have NOTHING to work with. Here’s some of what we do know:

*Charlie X – she likes entertaining the crew, and gently teasing her friends.
*The Naked Time – she keeps calm in a crisis, and objects to being called a “fair maiden.” Has a sharp wit, too (“sorry, neither!”)
*Conscience of the King – she enjoys making her fellow crewmembers happy.
*Mirror Mirror – she kicks ass, and when she does, she’s sassy as all hell. It’s beautiful.
*I, Mudd – she kicks ass again with some fantastic deception and helps save the bridge crew in the process.
*Gamesters of Triskelion – also with the ass-kicking. She refuses to give up her free will despite overwhelming circumstances.
*Plato’s Stepchildren – she trusts her captain when she’s afraid. That speaks of a solid, supportive friendship. None of this mutually disrespectful bar-flirting nonsense.
*Episode whose title I can’t remember for the life of me – She is busy fixing her console, and Spock tells her he trusts her skills to figure out the tech issues.

She’s sweet, sociable, and playful. Whenever she does get more than just a “hailing frequencies open,” it usually has to do with analyzing a signal in such a way that it moves the plot forward. She fights when she has to, and is stubborn and competent and fierce. I feel she’s a lot of fun as a character, because she can be traditionally girly and flirty in many ways, but still strong and professional and respected.

The way Uhura was portrayed in the 2009 movie is such a far cry from all of this, I have trouble seeing them as the same character. The Uhura I know would have cleverly pointed out Spock’s faulty reasoning for assigning her to the Farragut, not angrily demanded reassignment. The Uhura I know would have tried to comfort everyone and keep them calm instead of just fixating on Spock.

Now as for Spock, I can’t simply dismiss his character changes as “it’s a new universe.” That doesn’t mean they can do whatever they want with characterization. In TOS, Spock struggles with his emotions the entire series. It’s one of his defining and recurring conflicts that is only “resolved” after years of personal struggle and hardship. Putting him in a romantic relationship, especially before all of the development he undergoes throughout the 5-year-mission, is just not consistent with who he is.

This is my problem with S/U. To me, Star Trek is about the characters, and how they face the unknown together. Engineering can look funny, planets can get blown up, villains can have questionable motivations, but if you screw around with the fundamental nature of these beloved characters, my disbelief can no longer be suspended.

/rant

298. Chief Engineer Bud - April 3, 2011

Bob, surely if Scotty is a miracle worker he has the skills and talent to redesign engineering to suit him. In sense he would then justifiably know the ship like the back of his hand as he’d have stamped his authority all over it… and probably more likely to get annoyed at other engineers’ tinkering… he’s always happiest when busy. Cheers.

299. Red Dead Ryan - April 3, 2011

277.
…….

Awww….you poor, poor soul!

300. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

300 posts so far and what have we learned?

301. Leatherman - April 3, 2011

@ 294 Sarah

You nailed it! I have felt exactly the same about the inconsistency in Spock’s character. Yes, Kirk is different, for good reasons, but why would Spock have changed so much? Good call.

302. John - April 3, 2011

Paramount please reboot Star Trek again!

303. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

@ 300

Nothing we didn’t already know?

304. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

287.

Denise, I don’t need to ask if you’re implying smething there. The threat of physical violence was heard loud and clear!

“You really should learn to control your emotions. They WILL lead to your undoing”

305. Denise de Arman - April 3, 2011

Hee hee…

306. Frank - April 3, 2011

I have mixed feelings about Nero. The actor did a great job at portreying the character. I even could feel his dedication and belief in his cause at the end when he sat there while the Narada was fallin appart. What I disliked was the lack of a backstory which explains his extreme hatred better and why they have a MINING ship which easily destroys whole fleets of starships.

I also had mixed feelings about engineering. I did like the enormous scale of it and the somewhat more industrial look. However, what detracted me was things like valves and storage barrels. That just doesn’t look futuristic. The best example was where they put Uhura. Big barrels with some stupid rotating light effect? Who in their right minds would put people there.

307. ster j - April 3, 2011

THE LENS FLARES! Nearly gave me a seizure to match the migraine. Bleah.

But seriously, I think the Roms will be opportunists and make preemptive strikes against the depleted Federation and Klingon fleets.

Family? Sure, I want background stories on the characters, but I’d rather read those in a good book. Otherwise is will be as boring as the wedding of Troi and Riker. Successful Trek movies have had more action + a message. (E.g., TWOK: “Greater love hath no Vulcan.” TVH: “Save the whales.” TUC: “Can’t we all just get along?” etc.)

308. Red Dead Ryan - April 3, 2011

306.
…….

Read the graphic novel prequel “Countdown”. It fleshes out Nero’s backstory. But even that doesn’t really move the character away from the “madman bent on revenge” schtick that we’ve seen countless times before. But at least the book gives us something we can sympathize with.

309. Ian Fee - April 3, 2011

Can I just add one thing I’d like to see?
Spock playing the lute.

310. AJ - April 3, 2011

279:

Denise: Good call.

I think ZQ Spock trying to out Kirk as a fake in the new film is fine.. It sets us up for the unlikely friendship that will shape blah blah. and inevitably lead to the torrid relationship between the two that all K/S fans seek.

STELLAR CARTOGRAPHY

Spock: “We are approaching a Class B nebula: Previously uncharted.”

Kirk: “Don’t you dare pull out!” Sulu?”

Sulu: “Oh, My!”

311. LV - April 3, 2011

I disliked the Spock and Uhura romance for pretty much the same reasons tons of other folks have said…but also because, basically I DONT watch or read scifi for the “romance”. Please people…cant we just use our limited scifi screen time to shoot at some damn ALIENS??!!

312. devonp - April 3, 2011

I agree that the Spock/Uhura relationship is very organic in nature if you look at canon. Just because the relationship never evolved in a particular way in one Universe doesn’t mean that the potential for it wasn’t there all along! I watch TOS regularly and I can see nuances and subtleties in many early episodes. Just as I can look at Star Trek V:The Final Frontier and interpret the Scotty/Uhura scene as nothing more than Sybok’s influence based upon a deep admiration and love for one’s colleague. Why wouldn’t his mind control bring to the surface hidden regrets about having sacrificed so much ( family, children) for career? And who’s to say that that’s even the case canon-wise, as we assumed this for our beloved characters only to find out things to the contrary such as Sulu having had time to father a daughter! So just because we haven’t seen it on screen doesnt mean it isn’t so. Heck we didn’t know Kirk had a son until ST:TWOK, doesn’t negate the fact he did, and people accepted it! Our career -centric characters lead complicated lives so it makes sense that there family dynamics or intimate relationships would be somewhat complex or complicated too! People complaining about Spock fraternizing with a subordinate officer seem to forget that Kirk, Scotty, Bones, etc., all carried on relations ( I won’t say relationships!!!) with subordinate females in the Original series and noone lamented over that??!! Helen Noel after the X-Mas party? Mira Romaine? Carolyn Palamas? Yeoman Barrows in Shore Leave? Hanky Panky was going on all over the Ship! These people need to grow up, this is real life… people are carrying on relationships in schools, on campuses, in the Military and in the civilian workforces, equals and superiors/subordinates in every combination, male-female, same-sex, young-old, get over it!!! And better yet can function just adequately doing so! I’d like to think that it would be even more fitting for Vulcans to be involved because of their unique needs, by having a regular partner their chances of not having someone appropriate around (a High-Risk situation to their mental/physical health) during a Pon-Farr episode would be negated or less volatile! To each their own , but I believe that the Spock/Uhura romance added a whole new interesting dynamic to these characters that I do not feel is “out of character” for either! Please MR. ORCI have the strength to continue on and develop what you have started with these 2 characters and permit the seed to flourish as intended. People today seem to want their beloved TV programs & movies to conform exactly to what they were, instead of presenting a fresh new take on a beloved theme. Point in case TV is now reviving Charlie’s Angels and Wonder Woman and all people are doing is griping about how they are not exact replicas of the Original series and saying how much they hate them before they even see them… How Closed-minded people are! Unbelievable! My response is this… as a fan do you want a new series albeit different in ways from its predecessor or do you prefer to have none and sit watching re-runs the rest of your lives!!! I love Trek and supported Trek 2009 and was pleasantly surprised that beloved iconic characters could actually be recast and still be believable in the roles, and this task was accomplished! As for Wonder Woman, I am more concerned with storyline than her differently-styled costume! As far as the Charlie’s Angels go I am more concerned with storyline than with whether or not these 3 girls met at the Police Academy! As a fan I want to see my beloved stories continue to evolve! Evolution… seems very fitting especially for Star Trek , wouldn’t you say MR. ORCI???

313. boborci - April 3, 2011

289

Noted

314. reb - April 3, 2011

292. Iva – April 3, 2011

“Since Starfleet Academy is not a ghetto high school where such things are normal everyday occurrences which bear no consequences,
nor is Spock’s upbringing bad,
there is no realistic way he as a person would have found himself in that situation in the first place or,
in the fairytale world where he would – failed to report himself and accept the disciplinary measures.”

Sorry burst your oddly racist fairy tale bubble, Iva. But in the real world, fraternization happens. Between students and teachers in the best schools; in and out of military academies; and on military bases and naval ships. They happen. They only get reported if a third party feels strongly enough to do so and has evidence.

Starfleet in TOS might have a “no fraternization” policy.
But “alt” universe might not and it might not even be an offense if found out as long as its consensual.

Several people have already explained that this Spock is not the TOS Spock nor the TOS Kirk nor the TOS Universe.

So either you can adjust or toddle off to eat your porridge and suck your thumb.

315. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

Bob

“Noted” isn’t exactly saying, “Will do”, now is it?

…..and if you answer this post with “Noted”, I think I’ll wet myself!

316. VZX - April 3, 2011

My gripe was the rapid advancement to Captain, BUT, we don’t know how much time took place between the destruction of the Narada and Kirk’s promotion. It could have been a year for all we know.

After the Narada was defeated, the Enterprise was dead in the water without a warp core (Scotty ejected it). She was also pretty battered from pulling free from the black hole, maybe communications was out. They could have been stuck there for months. Then, back at Earth, repairs of the Enterprise could have taken another couple of months. During this time, Kirk may have served for a short time on, say, the Farrugut as First Officer or something. Then, once the Enterprise was fully repaired (under the direction of Scotty), Kirk finally took his rightful place in the big chair.

All speculation, sure, but it’s possible. It’s my own personal fan-fic in my head when I watch the movie. Hey, it works for me.

317. doohan - April 3, 2011

269. Misplaced – April 3, 2011

“I’ve been a Trekkie since infancy, but as a creative person, I believe more in enjoying a good story than watching something with the intent of noticing every canon violation, inconsistency and baby-whining when the writers hook-up a pair of characters when I’ve put them in a different relationship in my mind.

In other words: As proud as I am to be a Trekkie, I don’t think that writers should EVER pander to the fans…because as a group, we tend to be just as narrow-minded and stupidly prejudice as a lynch mob.”

This needed repeating!

318. Danielle Ni Dhighe - April 3, 2011

I voted for Broad/slapstick humor, but really, it should have been a multiple choice poll. It was a film with a lot of problems, which started with the screenplay. It was Trek reimagined as a typical summer blockbuster, all action, no soul.

319. DC - April 3, 2011

My biggest issues (in no particular order):

1.) Blinding lens flare
2.) Blue Vulcan sky
3.) Spock/Uhura
4.) Not enough character chemistry/character moments/feeling of a family forming

Obviously one of these can’t be fixed in the sequel, but hopefully the other ones will be fixed. On another note, I would like the designs to be JUST A LITTLE more TOS-y. I understand, new universe and what not, but I felt some designs were too far from the series, such as the “flippy phasers” and tricorders and the bridge itself to an extent. Glad to see our feedback isn’t falling on deaf ears :)

320. Weerd1 - April 3, 2011

@309 Yes! Please.

321. boborci - April 3, 2011

315. Noted!

And as for landing party – WILL DO!

322. Vultan - April 3, 2011

Just why was it changed from “landing party” to “away team,” anyway?
Because Kirk liked to PARTY? Because they wanted to stress TEAMwork in TNG?

Yes… no… maybe…?

323. boborci - April 3, 2011

317. doohan – April 3, 2011

Agreed. Not gonna pander. But being a fan myself, I know our fan opinions matter, too. Won’t be a slave, but still wanna hear your thoughts.

324. Jon1701 - April 3, 2011

I thought the romance worked great. In the context of this film, and the character of Spock in this universe – it made sense.

Also gave us a great moment with Kirk & Spock on the transporter pad when you heard her first name.

Fix the brewery though.

325. Iva - April 3, 2011

314. reb – “”” April 3, 2011 ……………………”””

My, my … no need to get so emotionally invested, now is there?

This new universe was created the moment Nerada passed through the black hole, everything that happened prior to that moment is the exact copy of the original universe.
The only people who have altered in any way are those directly influenced by the destruction of Kelvin, and only to the point they were affected.

Neither Spock nor his parents who raised him suffered any brain damage, which is the only thing that could explain this level of Spock’s character degradation in newborn abramsverse.

326. Vultan - April 3, 2011

#321

Bob, I have a question about Cowboys & Aliens:
Are there any references or homages to other westerns or alien invasion movies (as in Rango, for example) in the film? I’m a big fan of both genres—especially westerns—and was just wondering….

327. Cathi - April 3, 2011

Didn’t like the whole Uhura/Spock thing.
I guess mainly because of Spock TOS backstory.
He should be betrothed, although of course I’m not sure whether he is in this universe. Then there is this problem with having sex only in 7 years, and being logical and supressing his emotions.
Spock might be differnt to TOS Spock but the question is how different do you want him to be?

328. Jon1701 - April 3, 2011

Mr Orci

I’d like to see a bit more plot for McCoy this time around. Great scenes with Kirk early in the film, but it felt like he got a little lost in the shuffle in the third act (and his line at the end of the film got cut).

Hopefully (and you’ve probably done this already) we can see a bit more of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic this time out

Jon

329. Aurore - April 3, 2011

233

Mr Orci,

Speaking about Mr Abrams and the Spock and Uhura romance, you wrote:

“…he said that it was one of the main reasons he decided to direct the movie.”

Therefore, do you think Renesmee and Giovanna would “convince” him to

direct the sequel ?

They are the twins Spock will manage to have with Uhura .

P.S. :They are to sparkle in the sunlight and glow through the lens flares.
See what you can do. Thanks again.

:)

330. Browncoat1984 - April 3, 2011

If I could pick ONE thing for improvement in Star Trek 2012 it would be engineering. It hurts to watch that scene because its very unbelievable as engineering from someone whose watched ALL Star Trek series. Perhaps that could be a PART of engineering, but I’d love to see a more traditional set.

Aside from that I honestly don’t have much to complain about with ’09. You guys managed to break the “odd numbered sequel” curse, which is something especially after the last two films flopped. Now will you be able to pull it off again? The only time I can think of a Trek sequel being as good as the last movie is with the Genesis trilogy, so rarely are the Trek sequels as good as the previous movie, but I believe you guys can pull it off!

331. Red-Shirted Monkey - April 3, 2011

“I dare J.J. to come back. I dare you J.J. You hear me? Star Trek!”

I dare J.J. to invest 80 hours watching TOS. A person can’t have watched The Immunity Syndrome if he then directs Leanord Nimoy to stare blankly at Vulcan as it implodes.

332. Keachick - April 3, 2011

I have not read all the comments on this thread – wow, people have been busy while I was sleeping.

I do not have big gripes about this film. The only two scenes I found difficult to comprehend (as me not being able to suspend disbelief easily) was the fight scene on the drill platform. All Kirk had to do was pull out his phaser and shoot the Romulan… The other one was the biologically deranged red furless monster living on an ice planet. What the… seriously? I guess it could have had anti-freeze for blood (actually some creatures living in very cold parts of the world do have a kind of anti-freeze in their blood). Still, both scenes have me saying “Oh really? not this again…”

Perhaps the engineering could look a bit more compact, tidier somehow, but then again, nobody knows what an impulse or warp core engine would/could look like anyway. Where and how does the Enterprise store/recycle its water? Having an effective gravity environment, more than adequate life support systems and water are the absolute essentials on any space going vessel. Does this Enterprise have an arboretum? How big? How does it work? Where would it be? A human’s short and long term health and survival depend on these three things being sorted, before anything else. How do you show these?

Re: the Spock/Uhura relationship. The writers gave no indication when Spock and Uhura started seeing each other, nor how far the two took that relationship – was it sexual? or platonic, where a small amount of restrained kissing was permitted? The fact is that Uhura was NOT throwing herself at Spock, nor anybody else.

There were only TWO scenes in a movie that ran for 1 hour 53 minutes that showed any kind of consoling/affectionate interaction between the pair and one of these scenes was shown in private (in the turbolift). The other scene was with Uhura and Spock on the transporter pad. Even Kirk looked taken aback at what was happening as was Scotty. (Did you not notice their expressions?). Clearly, it was showing two people not necessarily acting according to any regulation, other than their own. This “multiple” kissing did not occur in front of the whole crew. Only Kirk, Scotty and his off-sider (played, I believe, by Chris Doohan) saw this. There was no kissing shown at all on the bridge!!!

Anyway, God forbid, they could show themselves to be caring, tactile and concerned individuals as regards each other for even 60 seconds. Gee – call out the National Guard! So terrible, so awful a thing they were doing.

The first scene was where Uhura LEGITIMATELY calls Spock out for not assigning her to the Enterprise where, she, he and probably everyone knew that she belonged there. Spock knew he was wrong and he corrected his mistake. No wimping out or whatever on his part at all! Yet this “bull” keeps being repeated, something which is not only denigrating to the characters, but to people in general (esp. to women) and to the writers.
(In a previous post on another post, BobOrci confirmed my contention, one that I have maintained from the first time I saw this movie on 8 May 2009).

Uhura was removing her outer garments in her private quarters. What – should she have to sleep in her uniform? There was no sex intimated at all. The only two near naked people we saw in the entire movie were Kirk and Gaila where some sort of sexual liaison was intimated and that was a SHORT scene! Honestly, what is with people?

Honestly, really, some people… This is just too dumb. Watch the film and stop making things up. You are not good at it. Leave that to the OK team.

So much is made of nuKirk being given command at the much younger age than the prime Kirk was. This is not the same universe and Nero’s incursion certainly made sure of that. Prime Kirk had more time to get his shit together than this one. Nobody knows what the prime teenage/young 20 something Kirk was like or could be like on occasion. All we know is that both Kirks (sharing the same DNA and personality markers) appear to be healthy (testosterone driven) young males, who like women and are risk takers. They are also VERY bright. Why do people assume that prime Kirk would be incapable of doing risky, even dumb, stuff like totalling a car or whatever?

The fact is that people with IQs in the top 5 percentile etc (which is where, I assume, Kirk sits) get homework done (and properly) in a couple of hours, whereas it takes most other ordinarily bright people a whole week. I do know this as I knew some Mensans a little while back and that was how it was for many of them. No fault. No blame. Just a fact of nature and a fact of life. Just because you can be VERY bright does not mean that you are not capable of doing dumb/bad/even illegal stuff sometimes. High intellect does not = perfection.

Kirk gets challenged earlier in all sorts of ways and has a greater “cross to bear” and no, he won’t always get it right because he is a human being. However, most of the time he did/does get it right which is why he gets the privilege and burden of command sooner than most other people. Such bitter/sweetness.

Besides, the Trek canvas is not complete…

333. trekker 5 - April 3, 2011

Mr.Orci,is there any hope that u will tell us what u have named StarTrek2. Or,have u named yet. Or if theres gonna be a ‘2’ in the title. I,along with everybody else here would love 2 know,thank u 4 ur time.

334. MJD - April 3, 2011

Boborci – Uhura/Spock romance was a highlight for me. New angle to the Spock character to explore, but runs along the lines of the core of his dilemma (Earth vs Vulcan) and enriches the Saavik/Spock bond. They struggle to understand each other, but they are so alike, and in being with a human woman, he displays his father’s own struggle too.

For the sequel, I would ask for a jettisoning of Bud engineering on an aesthetic level, and on a story level, I would like to see a real test of Kirk’s leadership. Let’s see him make some tough, hard-to-live-with decisions. We’ve seen the bold and confident seizing of the chair, but what about the hard side to command? A young Captain realising it’s his job to send people to die.

335. boborci - April 3, 2011

Damon might have a title, but we’re not sure.

Can’t just be STAR TREK: INSERT FANCY WORD HERE.

Can’t be STAR TREK 2, or II, or TOO

Very tricky.

Any ideas?

336. carlie - April 3, 2011

314

Just because fraternisation happens in schools and institutes of higher learning it doesn’t mean it is accepted or acceptable. I have attended three separate universities and such relationships were definitely frowned upon not least because it made both parties look sleazy but also because, as Spock himself says, it gives rise to accusations of favouritism and in all too many cases left lecturers open to coercion, ie. Uhura’s demand to be assigned to the Enterprise. Spock has always been presented as having integrity and conducting such a relationship and then trying to assign the cadet in question to another ship like some dirty secret does his character no favours.

337. alyson - April 3, 2011

Why the heck did my post double up? Oh well.

@ 296. MetalB – That isn’t true. There were many federation ships wiped out by Nero before Vulcan was destroyed, and they were manned mostly by academy students. Good friends and mentors of the Enterprise crew were definitely killed, they just chose not to address it on screen.

I also notice that you chose to focus on that minor point, and not my complaints about characterization (which have absolutely nothing to do with staying quiet and minding manners). I do not find new and old Uhura similar at all personality-wise, and I don’t think it’s adequately justified – that’s just my two cents.

@319 – YES. Blue sky on Vulcan was… very odd. But I guess that doesn’t matter so much anymore!

338. boborci - April 3, 2011

326. Vultan – April 3, 2011

References, no. Homages, yes!

339. Christopher Roberts - April 3, 2011

335. Is Star Trek in there, a definite?

Maybe go the Empire Strikes Back route. Star Wars wrapped around the film title, especially in poster art, but not actually ever said by anyone.

1. Star Trek (2009)
2. To Boldly Go (2012)
3. Where No Man Has Gone Before (201?)

340. boborci - April 3, 2011

339Good point!

341. MisterJohnSparks - April 3, 2011

@335 boborci

Yes – It should be something other than “Star Trek 2″ because people might get it confused with the first Star Trek 2; and if it’s called “Star Trek: Something, something, something” then it may get confused with a TNG film.

Something new needs to be tried, that still suggests ‘sequel’. Perhaps Star Trek Beta or Star Trek B… Or what about Star Trek: Star Trek? Star Trek Neo Beta II? Star Twix?

342. MJD - April 3, 2011

Bob –

Title suggestions are tricky without knowing story, but I endorse Anthony’s Batman comparison, dropping franchise moniker and using something evocative. So our version of THE DARK KNIGHT? THESE ARE THE VOYAGES (would be sequel-ey, in that the ship is now launched). Or BOLDLY GO? Not as good, but maybe more famous.

343. Kleinefee92 - April 3, 2011

Also – I forgot to bring this up in my earlier post. Kirk is meant to be a “genius-level repeat offender”. If this is the case, then please, please give us some hard-core evidence of that in the next film. TOS Kirk was an explorer and a lover of knowledge, Bob. Shouldn’t this Kirk be those things too?

344. Jon1701 - April 3, 2011

The Movie Poster

WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE (STAR TREK FONT)
Star Trek 2 (smaller text)

345. John Leppington - April 3, 2011

I think the Enterprise did not get enough screen time and use as a cast member in its own right. Im not talking about anything on the soft core motion pic reveal of refit enterprise but could have been better and the weapons systems need beefing up and were too pew pew for me. Lacked punch.
I recently read the imdb list of what was wrong with 09trek and was dismayed to see a long list of small errors that just needed more polish, so more bang, more ship, more polish. = happy me. Its my birthday today, im 30 and have an 8 week old son who i cant wait to introduce to trek. The next film is our legacy to him. (William) lol

346. Vultan - April 3, 2011

#335

–STRANGE NEW WORLDS (What it’s all about.)
–BOLDLY GO (Iconic phrase, but it will surely drive English teachers up the wall.)
–STARFLEET (Simple and to the point. After all, hasn’t it always pretty much been about Starfleet?)

347. MisterJohnSparks - April 3, 2011

@boborci

I’m really trying to help here. Tell me what it will about so I can come up with more potential titles. Cheers.

348. Jon1701 - April 3, 2011

Star Trek IV in europe placed more prominance on “The Voyage Home” as opposed to “STAR TREK”

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/8400000/Star-Trek-IV-The-Voyage-Home-poster-star-trek-movies-8475628-1728-2560.jpg

I remember this poster well from when I was a kid

349. Red Dead Ryan - April 3, 2011

335.
…….

“Star Trek: The Journey Begins”

“Star Trek: A New Voyage”

“Star Trek: To Boldly Go”

“Star Trek: The Adventure Begins”

“Star Trek: The Enterprise Chronicles”

“Star Trek: The New Universe”

Just a few, since I obviously don’t know what your sequel is going to be about.

350. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

@335

How about:

Risk Is Our Business

The Final Frontier

NCC-1701

Prime Directive

#339 has a good idea, too.

351. Keachick - April 3, 2011

#87 Sharra. Thank you. Exactly what I have been trying to say. You can be a career woman and a sassy girlfriend at the same time. Today some women even manage motherhood as well, although that can be a tough call when it comes to managing time, energy, parent/child and spousal/partner relationships but not impossible.

So only women who wear pants can and should be taken seriously? This is just sexist crap.

352. Lara - April 3, 2011

I chose Little Nero backstory/understanding because that’s what I felt that was lacking. For what it’s worth I loved the Spock/Uhura romance, and would very much like seeing it be developed in the sequel.

353. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

Or, for the S/U haters:

Star Trek: How Spock Got His Groove Back

And, for a bit of absurdity:

Star Trek: Meet The Trekkers

354. Cathi - April 3, 2011

I know we are at a different topic now, but I guess I just need to get it out and admit it.
I didn’t like the Spock/Uhura relationship, but not because it wouldn’t fit or anything, it actually does, and it is quite cute I reckon, but because it makes the friendship between Kirk and Spock or Spock and McCoy seem of less value.
There’s a girl now and she’s just as important or maybe even more important than friends. And because Star Trek has always been about Friendship to me, that kind of hurts.

355. reb - April 3, 2011

Re: Fraternization. Didn’t TOS Kirk kiss a lady on the BRIDGE of the Enterprise in front of his entire bridge crew?

356. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

Lasty, if the S/U relationship progresses:

Star Trek: Little Trekkers

357. Maj - April 3, 2011

Instead of a hyphen in-between, it could be Star Trek and one more word to make up a phrase.

Like: Star Trek Returns, Star Trek Next, Star Trek 2012 maybe?

It really depends on what the story’s about. There’s no way to name it without a glimpse of the script.

Hey, what do ya say Bob? =)

358. Red-Shirted Monkey - April 3, 2011

“I dare J.J. to come back. I dare you J.J. You hear me? Star Trek!”

I dare J.J. to drop the I’m-not-a-Star-Trek-fan shtick. Embrace and respect the source material or go concentrate on the next Cloverfield.

359. JRKtheAdobeDude - April 3, 2011

I love ST09 to death, but there are more than a couple things about it that don’t sit well with me. I couldn’t accept the whole black hole thing as a plot device that “threatened the galaxy”. That’s just hard to swallow, from a physics perspective. Why was the Kelvin so massive? It had 800 people on it, yet even in the prime universe, by 2266 the Constitution class ships had a complement of 400, a full 30 years after the Kelvin. Stardates? Why are they so different? These sorts of things immediately stood out for me, and I don’t think they’re particularly nitpicky…but I still love the movie in its own respect. Best of luck to the writers in developing the next script; please get it done soon! I wouldn’t be able to stomach a pushed back release date.

I’ve been a regular at this site for three years, and this is the first time I’ve decided to post something. Something about this article stirred me to action!

360. 8472 - April 3, 2011

My biggest gripes are them blowing up Vulcan and the Spock/Uhura romance.

I loved the movie but… ehh, I just much prefer the shows where the cast are grown adults and it doesn’t feel like it’s Star Trek reinvented to cater to the 16 year old yaoi-fic deviantART fanbase, if you know what I mean.

361. Chief Engineer Bud - April 3, 2011

334&339: To Boldly Go is an excellent shout.

362. Miko - April 3, 2011

The Genesis Trilogy had the best soundtrack… More of the original stuff for trek 2 please! More dramatic, more life and death! Give us a score that makes us shiver in ore. Little nods to such pieces like ‘stealing the Enterprise’ and the ‘Genesis countdown’
Trek 09’s score is good but for me not memorable.

363. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

335. boborci – April 3, 2011

Suggestions, yes. Quantum of Solace type of title. Star Trek will probably always be part of the title, but I like how Quantum of Solace is about some small thing that is important, related to the story, but not so obvious that it tells you what the story is about.

BTW, Insidious sucked, but it was good to see Darth Maul in action once again.

364. Christopher Roberts - April 3, 2011

340. Bob, well that leaves you with a problem of mixing and matching other words synonymous with Star Trek…

…just in case, a theatre owner screws up and forgets to put the full title up!

Enterprise (been done)

…although it’s part of the something-something – – – fair enough.

Something Enterprise something.

Enterprise something something.

It’s got to have meaning in the story, obviously.

The Enterprise Incident. The Enterprise Legacy.

What’s left that Joe Public might already know or come to know, like the Empire and the Jedi?

Organizations, races, characters…

Federation. Starfleet. Romulan. Klingon. Vulcan.

Something-something again.

365. rtrj - April 3, 2011

361. To Boldly Go… Wow think of the opening scene…

366. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

Hopefully the title will not be obvious and banal. And I don’t like any of the suggestions given because nobody knows what the movie is about, and it seems kind of silly to me to just throw out a title without knowing anything about the story.

Take some crucial moment or action or something and build a title around it that is meaningful, poetic, but not obvious or banal.

367. Pierre - April 3, 2011

To be able to come up with a title, one might need to have an idea of the content. Let me guess the main storyline: Some villain will arrive (a new one or an “old” one), Kirk to the rescue, Kirk defeats them, but not very easily. If not: How about Star Trek – A New Beginning.

368. Keachick - April 3, 2011

“My biggest issue with ST09, however, is Uhura’s major ball-drop in the unlikely scenario that she was alone in monitoring the destruction of 47 Klingon warbirds by a giant Romulan ship, and didn’t think she should tell anyone except Gayla. As presented, Uhura is actually partially responsible for the destruction of the fleet at Vulcan.
It also makes Starfleet out to be a bunch of amateurs.”

What makes you think that Lt Uhura did not tell her superiors about the transmissions she picked up? What makes anyone think that Pike was not aware of the destruction of the 47 Klingon ships?

The fleet had to respond to the Vulcan distress call. Since all Vulcan was reporting was some severe seismic activity, there was little reason for Starfleet to assume a connection between what Uhura had picked up earlier and present events on Vulcan. In fact, it was Chekov’s mention of the lightning storm in space that enabled Kirk to properly connect the dots.

369. Maj - April 3, 2011

To Boldly Go — does have a nice ring to it.

370. DeafPoet - April 3, 2011

If you don’t call it Star Trek: Inverse Tachyon Beam you will be disrespecting fans and the history of the franchise.

There. It needed to be said,

371. p'trick - April 3, 2011

star trek: the call of duty or start trek: duty calls

372. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

For a title, I hope Damon isn’t thinking something like “Lost…in Space.”

373. Chief Engineer Bud - April 3, 2011

Bob how about Strange New Worlds? Assuming the next movie will seek out and explore…

374. Anthony Pascale - April 3, 2011

As I have said before I vote for a star trek evocative title but without trek. Just like Nolan is doing with his 2nd and 3rd batman movies. And no Bond movie has “James bond” or “007” in title. The roman numeral + subtitle thing was for tos movies. The colon + subtitle thing was for tng movies. Let the jj movies have their own style. What that title should be depends on film. It shouldn’t use anything from previous films like “final Frontier” but titles used before for episodes or books should be ok like “Prime Directive” But I suspect Paramount will want trek in name so something like “Star Trek: Prime Directve” is probably what it will be

A compromise could be to go the “verb” route. As in “Star Trek Returns” that would have trek in title but different from previous films.

One thing is certain. No number 2 or II, If I may be so bold that gets a firm fan veto

375. Red-Shirted Monkey - April 3, 2011

“I dare J.J. to come back. I dare you J.J. You hear me? Star Trek!”

I dare J.J. to employ a script consultant with knowledge of the source material next time around.

376. Killamarshtrek - April 3, 2011

Hi boborci,

I think we all have our own ideas of what makes the definative Star Trek story and they are all as valuable as each other (although not as influencial as your’s obviously).

If you were to take the majority view about what was missing from the first film, it would have to be the morality tale / social commentry aspect to the story (which I fully appreciate you didn’t have time for), that was what made Star Trek so different from everything else at the time.

Personally I completely trust your judgement & as long as there are no giant alien robots with swinging dangly things between their legs I’m sure it’ll be fantastic!

377. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

374. Anthony Pascale – April 3, 2011

I can’t see a poster of a Star Trek movie without the words Star Trek on it. Not opposed to it. Just skeptical it will happen.

378. CarlG - April 3, 2011

I know this is going to sound strange but… more Keenser.

I think it would be interesting to see more aliens that weren’t a 6-foot tall human with bits glued on. Here’s the thing though — more Keenser, but with character development. Make me believe that one of his people could sit in a Captain’s Chair and be taken seriously.

I don’t really see the problem with Spock / Uhura. They were surprisingly flirty in the early TOS episodes, so why not?

Wouldn’t mind a re-vamped Engineering, it’s a shame to let that beautiful concept art go to waste.

And more McCoy! :D

379. superpixel - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura. I won’t even go into how random and illogical it is. You already know.

380. Miko - April 3, 2011

Title: STA2TREK

Keeps in context with 2009’s title, just incorporate the 2 as one of the letters.

381. reb - April 3, 2011

I hope you keep the Spock/Uhura relationship, Bob.

382. Christopher Roberts - April 3, 2011

335. + 365. + 368. Risky though isn’t it? Critics can be cruel and have field day, if it doesn’t live up.

All the toilet gags of having boldly gone. LOL!

Could it be taken seriously? There’s always Star Trek’s sequel to fall back on, I suppose.

383. rtrj - April 3, 2011

376.I think it would be interesting to see more aliens that weren’t a 6-foot tall human with bits glued on.

How about Aliens that are Really Alien!

384. Anthony Pascale - April 3, 2011

JJ’s STAR TREK had many posters without the word star trek on them. They showed the delta shield emblem. Just like Bond posters use the 007/gun logo There is plenty of Trek imagery that say “star trek” like the ship or the actors in costume.

385. trekologist - April 3, 2011

They forgot to include a “Still haven’t seen the movie” choice. Sorry….. I know, I know…. I just can’t bring myself to do it…….

386. NCC 1976 - April 3, 2011

#373: Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

387. ce - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura irritated me. They were both really out of character when with each other – in the bar at the start of the movie, Uhura was more like TOS!Uhura, fun-loving and popular. Then all of a sudden she’s demanding Spock assign her to the Enterprise and then kissing him when he’s at the most emotionally compromising point of his entire life. It just doesn’t ring true to me. And emotionally compromised or not, I just don’t buy Spock having a makeout session with someone in front of other people, no matter the circumstances. The two characters were practically unrecognisable when interacting with each other. Also, I hated that Uhura had to be The Girlfriend. Why couldn’t she be awesome in her own right? She’s fully capable of it. To be honest, I just don’t see the point of romantic relationships at all in Star Trek movies. That’s never been the point. It’s supposed to be about undying friendships, on a human level.

Engineering was awful. It was like the bowels of the Titanic. What happened to the Warp Core? As I recall, engineering in previous Star Trek incarnations have always been clean, white rooms.

The lens flares were just annoying. Seriously. And the coincidental meetings? Kirk just happens to land on the exact bit of planet where Spock!Prime is chilling in a cave. How convenient. Oh, and Scotty just happens to be nearby! Wonderful.

I sound kinda bitter here, but I actually really, really loved the movies. I thought they were fast-paced, exciting, I didn’t mind that we didn’t get much Nero backstory because the emphasis was on the characters. And, largely, the characters were all brilliant. The transporter room was lovely, and so was the bridge. Everyone was pretty! ;)

388. MisterJohnSparks - April 3, 2011

@380 That’s good, I like it. The ‘2’ is acceptable in this case and can be put anywhere in the title 2tar Trek; Star 2rek; Star Tr2k; 22ar Tre2.

What about just “THE U.S.S. ENTERPRISE”? If I saw that title on a movie poster or a trailer I’d actually sh*t it.

389. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

When’s it coming out? June?

They should put the release date on the poster as a stardate: 2012.6

390. Miles R. Seppelt - April 3, 2011

Biggest nitpicks:
1) Engineering looked like a water treatment plant
2) Bridge looked like an Apple Computer store
3) USS Enterprise (and each of its components) looked “front heavy”
4) Science pretty shakey / giant plot hole (e.g. How can Spock prime see Vulcan from the ice planet he was on?)

391. Miko - April 3, 2011

388 yeah that works well anywhere in title actually.
Equally ‘THE USS ENTERPRISE’ is very cool.
389 release date works very well…
so between us three we have solved it for them!! : )

392. Michael Hall - April 3, 2011

“I thought Star Trek was a great movie.
The main ingredient missing for me was the sense of wonder.
As a kid, TOS tapped into that childlike wonder every time I looked up at the stars.
What would it be like to actually go out there?
As much as I enjoyed Chris Pine, and I really did enjoy him, Shatner’s Kirk felt more like an explorer to me. Just one quiet moment of Pine looking up at the sky(or into the viewscreen) wide eyed, pondering what’s out there would have done it. Kirk is an adventurer, but there needs to be that underlying layer that runs deeper than adventure, fighting, and scoring women.

What drives this man?

To be the first to experience something new.
To blaze a trail for the rest of us.
To go where no one has gone before.”

I don’t know how any Trek or SF movie could be great or even good without a sense of wonder, but I most certainly agree that Trek ’09 was sorely lacking one.

393. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

384. Anthony Pascale – April 3, 2011

Yeah but you can’t do that exclusively. Imagine if that was all the posters. The movie wouldn’t have a name. People would be lining up at the box office saying “Two for the 9:35 movie with Dr. Spock in it.”

394. reb - April 3, 2011

Yeah, undying friendship as an excuse for “slash”.

395. Travis - April 3, 2011

Tell you guys the truth… I liked the movie the way it is. Kirk became captain actually same time in prime universe, The Enterprise looked good, There was enough information on Nero and Engineering looked awesome really. JJ Abrams made Star Trek look so much more ” Modern ” where i think the 23rd century would look like. The only problem i have and to why this way only mentioned in the comic book was that Nero’s Ship ( if you guys havent noticed ) had BORG technology. I think it would have been a good idea for Kirk and Spock to picked up samples of the borg nanoprobes, take them back to Earth for Starfleet to get ready for the borg invasion. Something tells me that when Picard screwed up in First Contact and when Archer intercepted the borg, they probably contacted there home world much more faster than Archer and T’Pol might have been calulating. So i would NOT be surprised if the Borg pay Kirk and Co. a visit!!.

396. MisterJohnSparks - April 3, 2011

391

That’s fantastic, we’ve got ourselves a title! Great work everyone!

Bob, the name’s Sebastian Laverty-Glover – stick that at the beginning of the end credits so it’s easy for my friends to spot.

397. Sara - April 3, 2011

I really loved the movie–but Spock/Uhura didn’t sit quite right with me for two reasons:

1. As someone mentioned above, Uhura’s story simply became a part of Spock’s once they were on the ship. Before that, her story was tied up in Jim’s. We didn’t get to know her as a character–only as a love interest.

2. I’m really nervous that the romantic side-plot in the sequel is going to be a love triangle–Spock and Jim both after Uhura. Which I just don’t think is a great way to create tension.

398. Miko - April 3, 2011

haha yeah Bob and Mike Gainz, used alot of cells in this brainstorming session!

399. JimmyMac - April 3, 2011

@284: MJ

Tell me you really don’t get it. In Star Trek II the Enterprise was a critical character in the film. Um, in Star Trek III I think something significant happened also.

And on the TOS, everything was about the ship. “That is why…..we….are….aboard herrrrr.”

400. rtrj - April 3, 2011

392. I wish I could have said that!

391. ‘THE USS ENTERPRISE’ that would be cool!

401. Lemomina - April 3, 2011

I personally love S/U and don’t understand the hate . I hope Spock & Uhura stay a couple in the next movie

402. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

Actually, I’d drop the “THE” and just call is “USS ENTERPRISE”

403. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

401. Lemomina – April 3, 2011

I personally love S/U and don’t understand the hate . I hope Spock & Uhura stay a couple in the next movie

***

Me too. I hope they get married and have babies that run around the bridge playing space war with their starship models.

404. CmdrR - April 3, 2011

Trek 2009 was aimed at the heart, not the head. Yes, there should be some brain chow in the sequel, but don’t make it too cerebral, as NBC once whined. Just ask around for some actual science. There’s scads of cools stuff out there to work with. Don’t really like the shipboard romances in Trek. Not that they wouldn’t be good, if done right, but they haven’t been done right yet, Spock-Uhura not withstanding. Let Kirk get some green or blue or spotted tail as always and be done with it.

405. MisterJohnSparks - April 3, 2011

402

That’s what I thought at first, but say ‘THE USS ENTERPRISE’ to yourself – the ‘THE’ makes it sound strong, significant, definitive.

406. Dyson Sphere - April 3, 2011

Spock Prime Is still around, gives the Federation the “77” pistol weapon he invented in the other Fringe Universe (wait, am I mixing again?)

Make the villian something believable but don’t reuse Khan.

Fewer flares

More sense of completeness from start to finish in the movie – it can have sequels but should be understandable by itself.

407. Miko - April 3, 2011

But then also could just drop USS ..just call it ENTERPRISE. Works ok cause they are just about to embark on 5 year enterprise. I did really like in ENT. how they just called her Enterprise, rather then in TNG and the movies THE ENTERPRISE… THE makes it sound cold. Makes it sound like an object that has no meaning. Tricky one.

408. Elinore - April 3, 2011

I LOVE the reboot. It’s great in so many ways. But with some things it’s like, did you even watch TOS?
I know the kiss between Kirk and Uhura was originally written for Spock and Uhura, but still, that does not justify the catastrophe that is SPUHURA in this movie. If anything, Kirk and Spock are what’s canon. Most people know this, some don’t. But I’m not saying they should have a romantic relationship in the next movie, because that would be a little too progressive for American society. But dear Lord, whatever you do, let there be no more Spuhura!

409. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

405

I did, I don’t like it, for some reason.

I wouldn’t mind Enterprise, wee it not for the last Trek series.

I also like my earlier idea: NCC-1701

410. C.S. Lewis - April 3, 2011

boborci,

I happened on this article today and thought I would weigh in.

After a few years’ distance, the question remains unanswered, What did your movie say to us?

Sure, the vocabulary was there, there were little nods and asides to antiquity as it were. The character names and high-level biographical sketches resembled Star Trek. The broad strokes were of Star Trek.

But it was not Star Trek. It was sort of Chef’s Surprise with a Trek theme, an “Inside Hollywood” recollection of Star Trek that frustrated more than satisfied. Sort of a grotesque. Rococo. Mash up. Muzgo night at mom and dad’s.

I understand you have commercial realities that constrain your contribution. No doubt studio marketing dictates all manner of “must have” check list items, most of which are anathema to Star Trek.

To the devil with them all!

Give us a story and a script that dares to be more than Paramount’s take on Ben Bernancke’s helicopter.

Sincerely,
C.S. Lewis

411. reb - April 3, 2011

Someone call Robert Kirkman! CS Lewis is back from the dead!

Anyway.

“Kirk getting spotted tail” hardly qualifies as a romance. Ala with the green tail he got.

412. Veri - April 3, 2011

Exorcise the Spock/Uhura romance, please. It’s not canon-friendly, and it’s not Spock. And Uhura deserves to be more than a romance side-plot. Bleh. Don’t even.

413. reb - April 3, 2011

Please keep. The Spock/Uhura romance. This is not TOS. Uhura gets more than merely a one sided romance

414. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

#384. Anthony. I disagree. They tried that with Enterprise and that did not work. Star Trek Needs to be in the title. As for a name for the next movie I agree with Bob Orci. Trek 2 would not work and calling it Trek 12 would not work. I say when the script is done that the writers should look at script and come up with a name based on the script. Like they did with Khan in The Wrath of Khan or Search for Spock in Trek 3 and so on.

415. HubcapDave - April 3, 2011

I GOT IT!!!!!

Star Trek: The Trekquel!

Genius, no?

416. MisterJohnSparks - April 3, 2011

The Spock/Uhura thing was fine. It was a bit of a shock, not only to us (the fans) and Kirk but to Spock and Uhura too. The whole thing seemed to come from nowhere – just like romance often does in real life.

No matter what happens with their courtship in ‘The USS Enterprise’ when it’s released in cinemas, I’m sure it will be unpredictable and thusly believable and exciting

417. Battle-scarred Sciatica - April 3, 2011

We do not need “Star Trek: yada yada yada” as the title in my opinion.

We should simply have “Where No Man Has Gone Before”….or whatever…

If we knew more about the movie we could come up with some great titles, I’m sure…..: )P

“Enterprise” piqued a lot of peolples interest when it first came out. Then they had to bollocks it up by changing it to “Star Trek: Enterprise”….mind you a lot of the writing bollocksed up Enterprise anyway…….shocking stuff at times…..tut tut….could have been so good….had soooo much promise….poor casting…….some terrible acting……..Malcom Reid? What a c%$*!…..poor old Trip, it should never have happened that way…….

418. Delma - April 3, 2011

I just rewatched STXI and I was right – the problem is Engineering – definitely no problem with the Spock/Uhura relationship. In fact, it is highly plausible and a plus. Why shouldn’t it work? Sarek married 2 human woman.

419. Hermioni - April 3, 2011

@ #292 Iva – April 3, 2011

“Since Starfleet Academy is not a ghetto high school where such things are normal everyday occurrences which bear no consequences, nor is Spock’s upbringing bad, there is no realistic way he as a person would have found himself in that situation in the first place or, in the fairytale world where he would – failed to report himself and accept the disciplinary measures.”

If your words here do not indeed represent a deliberate and deeply calculated formulation, may I suggest they give you pause and reason for some introspection.

420. Gretchen - April 3, 2011

I have to say that, although I was caught off guard by the Spock/Uhura romance, it actually made sense to me once I thought about it for a moment. They are both highly focused nerds who have worked together in an academic setting. It would not be outrageous to think that they may have grown close during that time.

And you have to remember, this is a younger Spock than what we saw in TOS. In Leonard Nimoy’s bio, “I am Spock,” he said that Roddenberry’s backstory for Spock was one in which Spock played around quite a bit when he was younger, because he found human women were very attracted to him. It wasn’t until later that he decided it wasn’t worth the drama and re-dedicated himself to Vulcan ways.

So if Spock can be a playboy, he can also fall in love (he IS half human, remember…).

Regarding the kissing on the transporter pad, I’ve heard it suggested that he may have done this because he believed that he was going to die, and that this was the last time he was going to see Uhura. I imagine that I would not give a crap about convention in a situation like this one, with my loved one standing right in front of me.

So… I am all for the romance. I think it’s sweet, and I hope they keep them together in the next movie.

421. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

#300 – Harry Ballz

What have we learned? … hmmmm… I do not know… but I NOTED… lol… there are people here who are full of Wisdom Trek …or they believe in this, at least … LOL…

# 335 – boborci

“Star Trek:…and something”… (related with the story to be told in the film).

:-) :-)

422. sean - April 3, 2011

Please keep the Spock/Uhura romance. It was interesting/new, and as I’ve said a billion times, there was a hint of it in TOS. This is a new universe without the restrictions of the original, we might as well take advantage of it.

423. Damian - April 3, 2011

Perhaps the best solution is to reverse the name. Have it on the posters–

Insert Cute Title Here : Star Trek

and in the film itself at the very beginning of the film start with STAR TREK on the screen in the same block lettering as the last film, then have a teaser sequence, then have the title of the movie show up, before proceeding on with the meat of the film.

I feel having Star Trek in the title is a must. Otherwise it seems you are hiding the fact that it’s a Star Trek film. As popular as the last film was, I would do everything I could to promote this as a sequel to that film. Star Trek is a franchise and as 414 noted, it didn’t work for Enterprise. I wouldn’t try that trick again.

424. C.S. Lewis - April 3, 2011

411 reb.

:-)

425. boborci - April 3, 2011

375. Red-Shirted Monkey – April 3, 2011

Do you actually believe I knew nothing of the source material? Really?

426. MJ - April 3, 2011

@425. Bob, there is a reason why we call him the Red-Shirted Monkey.

427. MJ - April 3, 2011

@410 “Sort of a grotesque. Rococo. Mash up. Muzgo night at mom and dad’s.”

LOL. How lame.

428. Damian - April 3, 2011

Story wise–I just want something that provokes some thought. Action, special effects are all fine and good, and I would strongly encourage all that. But from the story I just want to see something that makes you stop and think. Some of my favorite episodes in the different series are the ones where maybe reality isn’t what it seems, or something has been altered. All 5 TV series has those episodes.

Spock/Uhura was not a big deal for me. I’d certainly like to see more McCoy and if possible, get Greenwood back for Pike.

Glad to see Bob Orci has noted our comments about engineering. Perhaps it wasn’t his cup of tea either. In any event if nothing else, engineering needs a recognizable warp core. The warp core is the heart of the ship. When you see it, you should know, yeah that’s the warp core. I still can’t find it in the last film.

429. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Bob Orci. All I ask is for a tall ship and a Star to Steer her by. Put that into the new movie. That is something Kirk has said.

430. reb - April 3, 2011

I’m watching the film now. Just saw a crew men I saw at dinner last night.

431. Will - April 3, 2011

Chances are 100% that when Kirk visits engineering in the sequel, he will find that Scotty remodeled it and it now looks at least as good as the engineering sets from the Trek tv shows.

432. Nina - April 3, 2011

Loved Spock/Uhura in the film. It didn’t take up that much of the movie so it’s always hard for me to understand why people hate it so much. I thought they kept it brief and added some humor.

Bob Orci, here’s hoping you don’t cave and end their relationship in the second film, considering how many people loved the pairing who don’t come on this site to talk about it.

433. MJ - April 3, 2011

@419 “If your words here do not indeed represent a deliberate and deeply calculated formulation, may I suggest they give you pause and reason for some introspection.”

This is outstanding advice for the small handful of people here here seem hell bent on using this article to take a new series of potshots at Bob and JJ using their same tired old arguments that we have heard from them over and over the past two year.

Here if my advice to this select group — for a change, come up with some positive and perhaps a new idea that aid this discussion. Or is that not part of your agenda?

For my part, I am growing fatigued seeing the same niche group of “negative vibers” repeat the same tired old critiques over and over.

434. reb - April 3, 2011

I luv all the call backs to the prevoius films in costume & set design.

435. Celeste - April 3, 2011

I’m one of those who knew 3 things about Trek before I saw the movie (and thanks to the library and YouTube I’ve learned much more over the past 2 years).

That being said I cant say I had too much problem with the movie in comparison to storyline or what went on before. The only real problem I have is all the lens flares, which isnt a story decision but appears to be JJ’s thing. But the lens flares kinda bother my eyes after awhile and I dont like how sometimes they block out half of the character’s face so you cant read it clearly.

Engineering doesnt bother me and as for Spock/Uhura that doesnt really bother me either. At this point anyway. I can see the reasons behind it and I dont mind them being together. Its tough to carry off but its possible to show characters that have super close relationships to more than one person (or more than 2 people). Not that I want S/U to become a big focus in the sequel. I’d much rather see how the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic is shaping up rather than have there be some big Spock/Uhura lovefest. As long as it stays as a sideline I’m okay with that. There are plenty of decent fanfics out there if I need a Spock/Uhura romantic fix.

436. reb - April 3, 2011

I want Sam Kirk back.

437. Damian - April 3, 2011

435-I was not a big fan of all the flares either. But that is an Abrams trademark, so I don’t think they are going anywhere. I found them to be distracting after a while.

I just watched Nemesis Friday night and actually noticed a fair amount of additive lens flares in that movie also (ie it was added to the warp flash). Now, they were not on the level of what Abrams uses, but it is a new trend it seems in movies.

A couple of weeks ago, I decided to watch the movies in order from Star Trek: The Motion Picture, something I have not done in some time. Obviously next up is Star Trek (2009). One thing I have found is that I loved all the movies. Some were better than others, but I enjoyed all the movies just the same. Each time I watch them I see new things, and there is a certain progression as you go from one to the next.

438. Chris S. - April 3, 2011

I voted the brewery/engineering. Just didn’t buy it. As far as what I would like to see in the new movie? Give me a great original story peppered with references and nods to the universe we already know. Reintroduce us to characters like Kyle, Chapel, Riley,etc. Perhaps a cameo from Archer or T’Pol. I was concerned that the reboot was going to wipe away everything that had come before. I was most relieved that the new timeline/alternate universe is firmly part of existing canon. I have no doubt that the next movie will be fantastic. Can’t wait!

439. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 3, 2011

The best thing… or more interesting … that Mr. Bob Orci said in this interview for Collider… at least for me I’m always trying to guess what is really being said… beyond what is being said… yes I ‘m a little weird … LOL

“Are you guys close to being done with it? Are you just doing minor tweaks?

Orci: We’re never done it with. You know, you’re never done. You’re not done until it’s projecting in the theater.”

source:

http://collider.com/bob-orci-cowboys-aliens-star-trek-2/83818/#more-83818

:-) :-)

440. Red-Shirted Monkey - April 3, 2011

If I were to suggest that J.J. should “employ a script consultant with knowledge of the source material” and then if a script writer were to respond defensively thinking that I implied said speech writer “knew nothing of the source material”, then I would suggest to J.J. that he also should hire a consultant specializing in reading comprehension and basic logic.

441. Paige - April 3, 2011

Wasn’t particularly fond of the Spock/Uhura romance myself, for a multitude of reasons. Firstly, it messes with established Vulcan cultural norms. Up until his first experience with Pon Farr, Spock was bonded (i.e. engaged) to another. Bonding children was a cultural normality for Vulcans, thus wouldn’t be effected by an alternate timeline, for Spock to have hooked up with Uhura at the academy, prior to the destruction of his home world (assuming T’Pring died in the implosion), would basically mean he was cheating on his fiancé.

Also, as others have stated, there are regulations, particularly at a military academy, against students fraternizing with instructors. Early on, prior to his years under Kirk’s influence, Spock was a bit of a stickler for the rules, to portray him otherwise was immensely OOC.

Thirdly was a big fan of the bromance between Spock, Kirk and McCoy (modeled after Plato’s model of the soul, i.e. Kirk = Spirited, Spock = Rational, and McCoy = Appetitive), and enjoyed their camaraderie. If Spock’s first priority is Uhura it is doubtful that the legendary Kirk, McCoy and Spock trimutive friendship, which was an essential component to TOS and an element which gave the series its heart, (and made things like Kirk going against direct orders to effectively steal the Enterprise and race to save Spock and McCoy on the Genesis planet believable and heartwarming) will have the time and effort to develop properly, as it did before.

For over forty years the names Kirk and Spock have been synonymous. They fit, intentionally on Roddenberry’s part, the roles of the hero/companion archetypes meta, i.e.:

The Hero/Heroine (see also Knight, Warrior)

Many of the gods of the world’s ancient religions began their lives as heroes capable of great feats of strength or skill. The Hero is also a classic figure in ancient Greek and Roman literature, often portrayed as one who must confront an increasingly difficult path of obstacles in order to birth his manhood. Today this archetype holds a dominant position in the social mind as an icon of both male and female power, from the Superheroes of comic books, such as Superman and Wonder Woman, to television and countless movies and popular novels. In the classic Hero’s Journey, defined by Joseph Campbell and others, an individual goes on a journey of initiation to awaken an inner knowing or spiritual power. The Self emerges as the Hero faces physical and internal obstacles, confronting the survival fears that would compromise his journey of empowerment and conquering the forces arrayed against him. The Hero then returns to the tribe with something of great value to all.

The Companion (Friend, Sidekick, Right Arm, Consort)

The Sidekick’s qualities of loyalty, tenacity, and unselfishness are the positive aspects of this archetype. A Sidekick/Companion provides a service, symbolically speaking, to a personality that often has a stronger nature or a role in life that carries more authority.

… It was disheartening, for me, to see the formula messed with, as the sense of brotherhood and unity between the three main characters, and Kirk and Spock in particular, are as synonymous to Trek, for me, as the names Kirk and Spock are to each other in television and movie history.

Personally, I don’t think Star Trek needs a centralized romance to convey tons of heart, it’s always done a tremendous job of doing that without that particular ploy.

442. Weerd1 - April 3, 2011

@Boborci, I do actually have one question, and it is a VERY minor nitpick, but something I was hoping you could provide some insight on. Watching the deleted scenes, we find out that the kid young Kirk drives past is in fact Jim’s brother. We know from both “What Are Little Girls Made Of?” and “Operation: Annihilate” that Jim’s older brother is of course George Samuel Kirk, and only Jim calls him Sam.

In the theatrical release it would seem Jim refers to the other boy as “Johnny.” Was that added specifically to separate the two characters since the other scene was gone, or is there some other motivation for the change? If it’s just an oversight, cool; it certainly would be just one more in a long list from ALL incarnations of Trek and certainly shouldn’t be held against anyone. Just curious as to the process. Thanks in advance!

443. Keachick - April 3, 2011

“Fascinating way to describe an emotionally unstable academy instructor who cheats on his wife, has an affair with one of his students and fixes her academy records, ignores his first officer duties and has random make out sessions in the middle of a red alert, ignores the chain of command as soon as the captain is out of the way and has rage attacks.”

Iva –
Just stop. Spock was not married. There was no wife. He was betrothed in the prime universe to T’Pring at the age of seven. These were anachronistic, oppressive and stupid cultural mores and I cannot believe that Spock’s mother would have ever gone along with such shit! The two CHILDREN, Spock and T’Pring, did not even know each other at the time of their betrothal. It was arranged by their parents. No cheating possible.

Now you have Spock fixing Uhura’s academy records – so she did not actually have the aural and linguistics that Spock had told Uhura that she had? So, now, Iva, you have Spock lying to Uhura and to the academy re her academic skills and qualifications! Holy Shit – you really do have an overactive and very nasty imagination.

Random make out sessions in the middle of a red alert? You obviously saw a different film to everybody else.

I know you are a K/S shipper. Just what makes you think that Spock would serve his time better “shipping” with Kirk than with Uhura or another woman? For a start, it is not logical, especially given the fact that he is now a member of endangered species…

444. Pierre - April 3, 2011

I agree with 392 to bring back a sense of wonder to Trek which has been missing from ST09. This is quite a challenge but Cameron did it well in a movie released in the same year.

As Anthony said, it is doubtful that Paramount would drop the wording of “Star Trek…” for the movie title. It never occurred before and never will nor should as it is part of the branding and the franchise.

I still like my idea of “ST – A New Beginning”. It carries many meanings which might be the common denominator of the various side stories, perhaps introducing the third movie and/or hopefully a new series.

445. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

I just finished laundering my clothes. Thanks, Bob!

Here’s a title with a little help from Mel Brooks:

STAR TREK: THE SEARCH FOR MORE MONEY

446. Hugh Hoyland - April 3, 2011

I still think Star Trek 09 was almost prefect in that it was almost exactly what was needed to reboot the franchise!

The one MAJOR thing that must be in the sequel, in fact if it isnt it could derail the whole thing and make it into something thats a squirrelly version of Star Trek is…

The Trio. Kirk Spock AND McCoy! Thats not just “cannon”, its at the heart of the story itself. Without it, you have something else.

I understand why S/U was added, and it did get the female audience interested, and thats good (plus the opening scene). But dont put it ahead of the trio, that would be bad IMO.

447. Nausica - April 3, 2011

I voted Spock/Uhura because their romance is detrimental to both characters and, in my opinion, it’s totally out of character for Spock.
I understand that this is a new universe and Spock is younger, but there’s no justification for his behaviour, he’s too emotional, too human, he just seems like a completly different person.
And I’m very worried about his friendship with Kirk and McCoy, in TOS was Kirk the one who brought Spock in tough with his human side, I simply don’t see how that dynamic should work now.

448. Dac - April 3, 2011

Hey Bob, it’s my birthday – Any chance of a crewman Dac? :P

449. Gabriel Bell - April 3, 2011

Once again the eponymous C.S. Lewis swoops in like a seagull to lay waste to those in his path with his pomposity and exaggerated prose (aka: he craps all over everything).

Do not assume to say what is or is not Star Trek. Your opinions are haughty, insulting and surprisingly rudimentary for someone who obviously thinks so highly of themselves.

450. fritz - April 3, 2011

Amen to the engineering brewery issue, didn’t these guys see space mutiny?

451. Anthony Pascale - April 3, 2011

I want to remind everyone that all opinions are welcome here, but all must also be civil

I’m looking at your Red Shirt Monkey – tone it down a notch or two

452. virgin vulcan basement nerd - April 3, 2011

It’s my brother-in-law’s birthday — any chance of space hippies?

453. reb - April 3, 2011

who made those chutes, haliburton?

454. DeShonn Steinblatt - April 3, 2011

295. At its core Star Trek has always been a more cerebral form of sci-fi entertainment.

Then how do you explain First Contact?

455. TrekkieJan - April 3, 2011

I ended up voting Spock/Uhura as most annoying, because destroying Vulcan (presumably) is not a thing that can be rectified in the sequel. although it was one of the things that ruined the movie for me. I do wish the poll was multiple choice, though. The brewery had no “engineering business” areas – Scotty, “giving her all he’s got,” or whatever, just looked like he was running aimlessly around a brewery, the science was bad, the plot borrowed, many holed and done better in other movies, the villain silly, shallow and his “revenge” motive completely unconvincing. The pace was good. I didn’t even mind the lens flares, personally, although they gave a friend a migraine.

456. AD - April 3, 2011

443 – Wait, what? Are you saying that means he has to reproduce? He’s still only half-Vulcan. He could be sterile (hybrids often are), and even if he’s not, I strongly suspect full-Vulcans would not want him introducing human genes into a very limited gene pool. So yeah. I just get irritated when people act like Spock will be required to have babies now or something.

Also, agreeing with the people who talk about the sense of wonder, the unknown, ground-breaking morality tales, larger-than-life discoveries, etc. The first movie was a good way to get them all together – now make them boldly go!

Dead serious, read popular science magazines for ideas. There’s a lot of cutting-edge stuff out there that could be extrapolated into pure awesome.

457. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

I also wished that in the poll that the Phasers and the hand phasers. These need changing as well.

458. reb - April 3, 2011

I thought they we’re already filming ST 2

459. MJ - April 3, 2011

@451/Anthony: “I want to remind everyone that all opinions are welcome here, but all must also be civil. I’m looking at your Red Shirt Monkey – tone it down a notch or two.”

Here, here!!!

460. MJ - April 3, 2011

@295 “295. At its core Star Trek has always been a more cerebral form of sci-fi entertainment.”

Huh? Memo: Any episode of Star Trek TOS

461. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Ok. For the Role of Harry Mudd they should cast Harry Ballz But if they must. Cast harry as a Red Shirt. That is a Role that Harry is Dying to play.

462. Florencia - April 3, 2011

I believe that there’s more to it that what was mentioned there.
What I really dislike more was that it were disloyal to the bases of The Original Series. Star Trek was above all about good morals and controversy. And the ST 2009 failed a lot on that.

Let’s start with Uhura. Uhura in TOS was the one woman that was there only because of what she was able to. And she wasn’t romantically involved with anyone. A women in the 60’s that said more than just “Yes, sir” and “No, sir” and after all the trouble Gene Roddenberry had to go for her to stay she was masacred in the new movie for nothing. Because that one women that wasn’t on screen for being romantically involved with someone was changed into that. And that is not what Star Trek is about. Because the message that that gives is that a woman can not be in a position of power or in an important role in a movie if she is not a romantic partner to someone. In other word, sexism. Way back of what TOS was trying to fight.
Also, for example, why she had more screen than Chekov, Sulu or Soctty? Oh, right, because she is a hot woman and that sells. Again, not the message of Star Trek. In fact TOS stick to its bases even when they weren’t selling and it was cancelled for that. Gene didn’t change TOS just to sell as it probably would have helped him in the moment.

Also, of course the Spock/Uhura, put in there for the exact same reason. Because it sells. And regarding the fact that Spock in a romantic relationship with someone is “illogical”. (Although I’m a K/S fan, I don’t find K/S logical unless Spock has first YEARS of insight work to deal with his emotions, not a young Spock behaving as an ordinary human).

On another hand, Kirk as a bad boy. He was not the character with whom I fell in love with. TOS Kirk was an intellectual, someone that us Trekkies, as most of us are nerds loved because it was a way of seeing us there. You didn’t have to be a bad boy, a popular guy to be Captain Awesome. All the contrary. And Chris Pine version of it destroyed all that. In fact he was the kind of guy I hated. Shatner’s version, for example, when he was looking at a girl was sutile, not in just a “rude” way, for lack of a better word, as Pine’s version. I understand that because of not having his father he was raised different. But personally, this new Kirk is someone I hate. For me he is not Kirk.

Although the 2009 movie was the first thing I saw, it wasn’t what made me a Trekkie. I’ve become one after watching the first episodes of TOS. I didn’t care that the effects where out of fashion, or that I knew that the sky in The Man Trap was a ceiling painted orange, I LOVED the stories. How in almost every chapter there was a message, a teaching. As a matter of fact, after watching TOS I hated the 2009 movie. I felt it didn’t diserve to be called Star Trek. That it was something that used Star Trek to make money and nothing more.
I still have hopes that ST XII is going to be better, and that is going to diserved more the name of Star Trek, but my hopes are small.

I hope that this will be useful.

463. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - April 3, 2011

Am I the only person who thought that ST11 was great as it was? So what if they used a brewery? I didn’t even know that until I read it here.

I say the movie was fine, and if they make the sequel as good as they made the last one, then I’m going to see it twice.

464. MJ - April 3, 2011

@78 “I can’t believe only 8% voted for Kirk & crew’s rapid promotions.”

Gee, maybe SAVING THE ENTIRE UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS was a consideration in the promotions.

LOL

465. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

#461. Lets see. The Dooms Day Machine. Action packed Ep. Elan of Troyus. Lot’s of action. The Ultimate Computer. Big Star Ship Fighting. Tomorrow is Yesterday. Balance of Terror Action Packed. Need I continue.

466. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - April 3, 2011

@218

yes! more McCoy! more McCoy!

I want Joanna to finally be established as canon.

467. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

The top 5 on here who’s opinion means the most.
1. Commodore Mike.
2. Anthony Pascale.
3. Bob Orci.
4. Harry Ballz.
5. MJ.
All others will be considered.

468. MJ - April 3, 2011

@230/Iva: “Fascinating way to describe an emotionally unstable academy instructor who cheats on his wife, has an affair with one of his students and fixes her academy records, ignores his first officer duties and has random make out sessions in the middle of a red alert, ignores the chain of command as soon as the captain is out of the way and has rage attacks.”

This is so far off base that I am completely dismissing it and laughing at it does not even rise to the level of needing a response. LOL

Iva, you really do need to govern your emotions (i.e. lay off the crack pipe for a couple of weeks); it will be your undoing. :-)

469. Hugh Hoyland - April 3, 2011

I would also like to add that it would be nice to see Pike back in some fashion. But thats just the fan in me, it aint gotta happen to enjoy the movie.

470. MJ - April 3, 2011

The haters are really out in force today…don’t let them get you down, Bob.

471. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Top 5 possible names for the new Trek Movie.
1. Star Trek. Enterprise
2. Star Trek. Out there.
3. Star Trek. Vulcans.
4. Star Trek To the last.
5. Star Trek. The new Journey.

472. Lindsay K - April 3, 2011

I’ve posted something similar to this on other blogs, but now that I feel my voice might really be heard, I’ll post it here as well:

All personal feelings aside, my biggest specific problem was with the Spock/Uhura relationship. When I first saw the movie, I knew so little about the Star Trek universe. But, I was getting more into sci-fi in general, and I thought that it had merit in my book.

Overall, I did enjoy the film the first time around, considering how little knowledge I actually had. Except for the Spock/Uhura. I simply didn’t get it, and I didn’t like it. I can’t say that I didn’t know it was coming, as I had visited Trekkie blog sites before the film and had seen images and spoiler alerts. But still, when the kiss finally came around in the turbolift, I knew right away that I did not like this pairing, and that I couldn’t buy what the writers were trying to sell.

I realized who Uhura was from the time we entered the bar with her, and I liked her right away, for the most part. She was headstrong, able to stand her ground, and was able to convince her commander that she deserved to be on the best ship in the Fleet (although I’d love to hear her explain this to the captain of the Farragut). She was strong, independent, and able to make her way to the bridge (with the help of Kirk and her own extensive knowledge of languages).

This badass Uhura persona, however, seemed to fall away during that Turbolift scene. At first I thought “aww, she’s comforting him, stepping in the place of the female role in his life”. Until the kiss. Now a few people that I have seen comment on numerous pages before say that she was simply comforting him the best way she knew how, and that comparing her sudden move of kissing all over his face to rape is wrong.

I have to disagree, in a sense. When I first watched this scene in theatres, I felt, like many feel, that her actions were inappropriate. While I admire that she was attempting to comfort him during this very difficult (to say the least) time in his life, her sudden flutter of kisses rubbed me the wrong way, and was also a double-edged sword.

On the one hand, if the pair were not together before the film, then, Uhura’s actions were inappropriate at an inappropriate time. If, before these actions, their relationship was just unresolved sexual tension, then her decision to make these feelings known during this time was, as stated, inappropriate and disrespectful. Spock is already experiencing a range of emotions, and, as half-vulcan, this is especially difficult for him. For her to add the emotion of romantic love into this mix serves no purpose other than to give a mainstream film a heterosexual romance in a short amount of time. It seemed to come out of nowhere, at least for me and many others, and felt false because of the lack of establishment.

On the other side of the sword, if Spock and Uhura were together before the establishment of the movie, then that would make Spock OOC, or out of character. Because he is part Vulcan, and because he is a Commander and instructor at the Academy, he would be under the same rules and regulations as any other commander. One of these rules, we can infer from current academic situations, is that commanders and those who are superior do not fraternize with cadets/students. For Spock to blatantly break these rules and his honor simply because he felt some unresolved sexual tension for his student would be out of character for him, or any Spock in any universe. I would not have such a problem with a student/teacher relationship if the teacher in this situation were not Spock, and that action were not so out of character for him.

After the scene in the turbolift, Uhura is barely given any dialogue, though she had quite a bit beforehand. This is probably because the rest of the film is meant to be about Kirk and Spock forming a bond between them, as well as the actual plot itself occurring. I understood this, and embraced it, though I wished to see more dialogue from her. And eventually I did get more dialogue. But in a manner that bothered me.

The only other time that Uhura really got to have a few lines of dialogue was between her heavy breaths as she made out with Spock. This next scene between the rubbed me the wrong way even more than the previous scene. The idea that Spock would carry out such an intense act of passion in front of his own captain and other crew members was also out of character for him. Vulcans seem deeply private, especially with their emotions, and for Spock to simply be okay with public displays of affection in front of his superior felt extremely “OOC”. If the pair needed a goodbye, they could have simply had another private embrace like they did before. The only reason they did not is because the writers wanted to establish that Spock/Uhura was happening, and that Kirk would finally realize that she was taken. It also added another romance scene that a mainstream film usually requires, but it also came off as very “IN YOUR FACE”, and instead of swooning, me and half the audience rolled our eyes.

Overall, I have no problem with the pairing itself. They were originally meant to kiss in the Original Series, and now they have their turn. However, I felt that no one in the audience (including myself) could connect with the pairing, because no one knew their backstory. I would also like to see Uhura have more of an independent role in the next film. She should serve more of a purpose than she currently has, which is “to be Spock’s necktie”.

I’m not suggesting completely do away with the pairing, although Star Trek was very wonderful without needing romance. I’m simply saying that the characters need to have more actual dialogue and less kissing moments that are “obvious”, and that Uhura needs to have more of an independent role. However, her role shouldn’t overshadow Dr. McCoy’s like it seemed to. While I appreciate that the poster-makers are trying to appeal to women (as well as a general audience), Star Trek was about Kirk, Spock, and McCoy as the Original Team. Uhura does not belong on the posters in place of Bones, and hopefully this will be resolved on the next movie cover.

473. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Hey MJ. Just Ignore them. I do. Bob. Just Ignore them.

474. Vultan - April 3, 2011

I think by cerebral he meant the “morality play” aspect that’s been at Trek’s core since its beginning.

I’m trying to find some moral dilemma or message in Trek ’09, but nothing is coming to mind—unless it’s time traveling baddies can really mess with one’s destiny (been there—First Contact)… or torturing someone with a bug is a bad thing (Wrath of Khan).

Was there a message? Perhaps… when people of opposing natures (Kirk & Spock) work together, great obstacles can be overcome. That’s all I’ve got. Anyone else?

475. Jonboc - April 3, 2011

335. boborci –
“Any ideas?”

I like “Where no Man Has Gone Before”
It’s the name of the second pilot as well as part of the show’s opening mandate. Using that as the name of the second movie would suit me just fine…assuming the plot accommodates it and you don’t jack it around to read “where no ONE has gone before.”

Or from another episode that outlines the whole purpose of the Enterprise’s mission. “Risk”
…or

“5 Year Mission”

…or

“New Life”

or

“Mudd’s Madness”……ooh…I really like that one!

476. Neumann - April 3, 2011

Without knowing ANYTHING about what the new movie is about, I can’t offer a title. I can just stress that it should be short, ie no “Black of the Blank” One or two word subtitle.

477. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Here is a Scene for Harry Ballz playing a Red Shirt in the new Star Trek.
Kirk. Mr Ballz. Beam down the Planet and start a search.
Lt. Ballz. Eye Eye Sir. (Steps into the Transporter room)
Lt. Ballz. Mr Kyle Energise.
Kyle. Yes Sir. ( Kyle activates the Transporter and then a Malfunction occurs and with in moments Kyle losses Lt. Ballz Pattern and Lt. Ballz beams back a puddle of flesh and bones.
Kirk. Mr Kyle. Take the Transporter off line and do a level one Diagnostic. Ill contact Lt. Ballz family.

478. Kavinsky - April 3, 2011

Umm Anthony can you allow us to choose more than one for the poll?

and commodore, please remove star trek enterprise from that list I never want to hear about that series or captain genocide ever again in moden trek.

(see dear doctor and sfdebris review of it on youtube along with his prime directive video to see why if your wondering)

479. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

If you go by the poll, I guess the worst possible thing Bob could do would be to give S/U a love scene in the brewery.

480. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

474: “Was there a message? Perhaps… when people of opposing natures (Kirk & Spock) work together, great obstacles can be overcome. That’s all I’ve got. Anyone else?”

Yeah, it was about choices.

Who doesn’t dare, loses.

481. Desstruxion - April 3, 2011

I’d like to see a “real” engineering section too but I’d also like to see more of the crew’s quarters. Give us more interior shots of the big E. Give her a bit more personality. As far as exterior design, the only thing I would change a bit is the nacelles. A bit too organic for my taste. Square them up just a bit. Otherwise, can’t wait til the next flick comes out. Love my Trek.

Oh, and USS Excelsior please.

482. MJ - April 3, 2011

@472. Good God Mam, did you think about how Spock’s father, who is 100% Vulcan, fell for a human woman? So of course Spock, like many males, will naturally be attracted to females that are like him mother…e.g. human females like Uhura, and like the several he was attracted to in TOS. Today, it is really more of wonder to me why this wasn’t explored more in TOS and the movies…I’m glad JJ and Bob are taking this obviously logical theme to the new movies.

And of course they had this relationship before the movie…that is completely evident in their conduct, and supported by the Alan Dean Foster novel as well. It is ludicrous to suggest Uhura waited until the evens of the movie to pounce seuxally on Spock and take advantage of his…absolutely ludicrous!!!

483. VZX - April 3, 2011

Wow. Trying to name the title for the next Trek movie is really, really hard. (That’s what she said!)

I agree with Pascale: No numbers, and no TNG movie style of “Star Trek: Something something”. The last movie title was perfect. Just Star Trek.

Hey, Anthony Pascale: How about another poll about the title?

484. PJays - April 3, 2011

I like the way Star Trek 09 was done. I am not one for nitpicking but sence it the topic I chose Spock/Uhura.

I always felt these character were more family (like brother/sister) than coworkers. So it was a little of guard for me to see these 2 hook up. I do understand that it is another reality now & all bets are off which is fine with me. I just figured that these characters will become who they are meant to be but with different methods than the original. What I mean is that even thou Spock is a different Spock, he still is going to be logical. His character traits will still be the same.

Not sure if that made sence but I am new to nitpicking.

On a side note, I would love to see more of the Kirk, Spock & McCoy relationship. I always thought what made them great was Spock’s logic, McCoy’s emotion & Kirk was the balance of the two.

Thanks for listening to the fans Mr. Orci.

485. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

472: “I have to disagree, in a sense. When I first watched this scene in theatres, I felt, like many feel, that her actions were inappropriate. While I admire that she was attempting to comfort him during this very difficult (to say the least) time in his life, her sudden flutter of kisses rubbed me the wrong way, and was also a double-edged sword.”

Yeah, when I first saw that scene I actually blacked out. When I came to I was on my feet and lots of people were screaming at me to shut up and sit down.

Perhaps its best I can’t remember….

486. VZX - April 3, 2011

How about: “A Trek through the Stars.”

No, that sucks. Dude, I just. Don’t. Know!

487. PJays - April 3, 2011

Sorry for typos, I did it from my phone!

488. Keachick - April 3, 2011

Who says that, by the end of the movie, Kirk and Spock had not forged an understanding and respect for each other? This movie was about the FORMATION of various relationships. When Spock offers himself as first officer, Kirk says, “It would be my honour”.

Bob – Have I seen a different movie from the one you made and many others have apparently seen?

Starfleet is not strictly a military academy, so many of the stricter regulations would not necessarily apply. As for the fraternisation question, I guess it is hoped that by the 23rd century, much of the nonsense and sleaze that can surround such relationships will have been sorted out and that most people will have gained a level of maturity clearly not evident today.

Yes, I have to agree with one of the comments. Too many women died or “disappeared”, eg Amanda Sarek (death) and Winona Kirk (where the hell was she?)

Gaila – no one knows the extent of her relationship with Kirk.

I *love* it how everyone automatically assumes that he used her as a sex object, or that she was just that anyway. So many very negative assumptions being made about the characters and what little we see of their behaviours. Actually very sad and frustrating experience for me reading these comments sometimes. Why so negative, closed minded and cynical?

Re not much change for Spock? – Spock made the decision not to join the Vulcan Science Academy because of the rude slight made against his human mother by the Academy heirarchy. His father calls Spock out, reminding Spock that he chose the Vulcan way. By not joining the Science Academy, he had decided at that point, among other things, not to chose the Vulcan way of being and doing, and instead joined Starfleet. Given that his father had married a human woman and had Spock by her, it is hardly surprising that he may be open to human female companionship.

Iva – Is there any evidence that Spock is genetically more predominately Vulcan than human? It has always been stated that he is HALF Vulcan and HALF Human.

In TOS, Spock was both a member of Starfleet and of the Vulcan Science Academy. Not so in Star Trek 2009.

489. Meadow - April 3, 2011

@ 479

Ha. OH so much HA. :DDDD Do it, Bob, do it!

I actually found very little wrong with the movie, other than the fact that they destroyed and planet and that will leave the Federation open to invasion from all sides (something which will probably not get addressed, because the movie was exciting and politics just aren’t.) I am hoping for a bit of a…better villain though (yes, I chose “destruction of Vulcan,” but I would have also chosen “other” if possible.) Considering the time period of “teetering on the edge of war with Klingons,” I don’t think this is too much to ask.

490. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

#478. As a Hard Core Trek Fan I loved Enterprise. Yes. A couple of bad eps. But tos had a couple as well. Star Trek Enterprise for the new movie would work for me nicely.

491. Anthony Pascale - April 3, 2011

I have to say i am surprised that S/U is winning the gripe poll currently. While i had various problems with parts of the movie, including many things listed in the poll, that is one that I was ok with. It was shocking when i first heard about it but when i saw it, i thought it worked with the film and it was one of those things where this new team showed it was their vision of star trek and this was a new timeline. Not all change is bad. I was actually impressed with how Uhura was handled in the film and given an important role both with Spock and how she grew to accept Kirk as a leader, kind of like a proxy for the audience.

As for all the other things, my original review noted that we kind of just have to deal with the rapid promotions and the coincidence meetings so that they can get all the origin story stuff out of the way without including even more time jumps. Did we want ‘3 years later’ and then 5 years later and then 3 years later, etc.

Im also cool with the new Enterprise. It still has the core components and again it is their vision. Still like TMP enterprise more, but cant get worked up over it.

The two main things above that I thought were really problematic were the thin coverage of Nero (mostly due to the Klingon scenes being cut), and Engineering. Luckily Nero was covered in the comics, but in the film it just wasn’t fleshed out.

But the Bud Brewery as Engineering was what i voted for in the poll. I am cool with a different look for Engineering, that actually makes more sense. I also understand why they couldnt afford building a new set, so i am cool with them using an industrial location. I just feel that the location they chose didnt work well or it wasnt dressed well enough. It was just too obviously an old industrial site with some shots only barely redressed. Not all the shots were bad, but there were a few that just took you out of the film. It was even worse for the bowels of the Kelvin, which used a power station in Long Beach, but luckily that (probably) wont be back for the sequel. As for the Enterprise, I suggest doing a bit more sci-fi cool to the redress and choosing shot angles that dont reveal the obvious 1950s infrastructure of pipes and valves.

492. VZX - April 3, 2011

Ok, heres a title: “Set Phasers to Fun!”

Ok, stupid.

Or: “Ego, Superego, and Id on a Holiday”

WTF? That was not even funny. Orci, if you guys come up with a good title, it would be nothing short of a miracle.

493. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Here is the new title.
Star Trek. Trekking all the way.
Ok. Won’t work.

494. Vultan - April 3, 2011

#480

Thanks for the reply. And I agree.

But I just hope there’s a little more food-for-thought in the sequel, some sort of moral issue Trek has yet to touch. Though, that may be impossible at this point. After hundreds of hours of movies and television, that well may be getting close to dry.

If nothing original comes to mind, Bob, go Shakespeare. Hey, it worked for Forbidden Planet! ;)

495. Chadwick Adams - April 3, 2011

The tech in Star Trek means just as much to me as the characters. The ships was always the “8th” character.

496. VZX - April 3, 2011

491: Yeah, that took me out of the movie as well. I imagine it was because Abrams went to an factory or something once and said to himself “If I ever make a space movie, I’m gonna use something like this as the spaceship engines.” I’m not really putting him down, it just that it seems like that.

Abrams: don’t do that again. I have a very high willingness to suspend my disbelief, but that just didn’t work for me, or many other people as well. I get that you wanted the ignorant masses to be like “oh, pipes and dials, must be like engines or something”, but no, the ignorant masses were actually like “oh, pipes and dials, must be water stuff at a plant or something. Are they still on the spaceship?”

497. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Hey Anthony I agree with you. s/U was ok with me as in the Tos there were some moments where they flirted. But the Engineering was just Terrible to say the least. They need to spend money on the next film to give us a real Engine Room. Fix that and give us a couple of really good flybys of the Enterprise would really bring the audiance into the movie.

498. reb - April 3, 2011

I have a question. Will Saucer section seperate? Or will that be left to ST:NG?

499. Chain of Command - April 3, 2011

Oh, the Engineering deck and the Enterprise design. Two hotly debated items. I’m sure the writers could work some changes into the script in several ways.

For instance:

Maybe the Enterprise wasn’t completely fitted out when it left the shipyard in ST09? It’s not uncommon for ships to be unfinished when they leave dock, and it was stated that the ship didn’t get a shakedown cruise.

Anyway, the point is, changes to certain parts of the ship could be easily worked into the script. Afterall, Scotty probably would change all sorts of things once he became the official chief engineer. Maybe he’ll even move the nacelles out a little bit further! LOL

500. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

I think the saucer Seperation should be left for Tng.

501. Evie S. - April 3, 2011

I enjoyed the movie; it was refreshing and made me go and watch The Original Series from the getgo, and I became a fan.

Bones was spot on; loved him!!

The only nitpick… which *really* bothered me, was the whole Uhura/Spock thing.

I just… ugh. Can’t wrap my head around it.

It seemed forced, out of nowhere, and like Uhura was using her relationship to get privileges (example was when she had Spock put her on the Enterprise).

Also, for someone who seemingly knows culture/languages, surely Uhura would know it was inappropriate to kiss her Commanding Officer/Instructor AND Vulcan in front of others.

To me, it was almost like her character was taking advantage of Spock’s vulnerability, AND showing off to Kirk. (The way she looked at Kirk right after kissing Spock).

I would appreciate it if you got rid of Uhura/Spock- made it like it was a friendship/comfort thing… OR, maybe have the relationship off screen, with allusions to their relationship. That way, I don’t have to actually see it.

I just can’t stomach those two together. At all.

… But everything else was great. :)

502. Michael Hall - April 3, 2011

“295. At its core Star Trek has always been a more cerebral form of sci-fi entertainment.”

Huh? Memo: Any episode of Star Trek TOS”

Well, two of those eps managed to snag a Hugo, which is two more than J.J. Abrams’ megapalooza extravaganza (which cost about a thousand times as much to produce) was awarded. And I think that, even now, about a third of those shows continue to hold up pretty well; we’ll see if anyone’s talking about Trek ’09 half a century from now.

503. TBonz - April 3, 2011

Daring? Blowing up one of the most important planets in the Federation (Vulcan) wasn’t daring enough? :p

Bad enough when Kirk bit the dust back in the TNG days. Now Vulcan is gone and this Romulan-lover is still mourning the loss of Romulus. Both pointy-ear planets gone. Bleh.

504. Phil - April 3, 2011

Engineering sections would never be prettied up. Considering that Enterprise performs a defense function I’d expect the entire ship to be somewhat spare. I’d expect a saucer seperation in a “abandon ship” moment, connecting and disconnecting these two elements would be a structural pain. TNG’s Enterprise came closest to looking like the ship was designed to perform that function, the current version (and TOS) does not.

505. Kavinsky - April 3, 2011

Commodore A couple? the show’s writing for the most part was boring, generic, tedious, terrible and somtimes like dear doctor just downright offensive.

hell its little wonder that they wanted to straight use an akira class out of first contact for it and it took zimmerman and Doug Drexler to talk some sense into that idiot Braga to let them redesign it so it atleast looked somewhat like it was from the tos era.

Sorry you struck a nerve trying to defend enterprise, but on the bright side the post tng braga era looks to be permanently over, pitty though that they killed alot of great things during his run.

506. Misplaced - April 3, 2011

463 — You are not the only one. I love the film.

Thanks to Mr. Orci — I have faith that you’ll write another kick ass film if you don’t feel pressured do a major overhaul to make the vocal few happy. I’m pretty darn sure that the box office numbers spoke quite well about how the general population felt about nuTrek. ;) (But of course, those of us who liked the movie must be idiots. LOL)

I am another one who likes Spock/Uhura. It was so incredibly minor in the film (and no I didn’t ship this couple before…never shipped any pairing for TOS), and yet look at all the uproar. I guess that’s a testament to how great the rest of the film is if that’s the only nit people seem to have (and quiet thorough nits at that — other than the engine room, of course). *shrug*

As for a title… Without knowing the plot, I think it’s difficult to come up with a kick ass title. ;-) And I don’t want to know the plot. Spoilers be the devil!

507. Maranni - April 3, 2011

I voted Spock/Uhura. As a fan of the ORIGINAL Series, I found it odd that Spock and Uhura were paired together at all. It’s NOT canon. Repeat: It’s NOT canon. And I’m not saying that just because I don’t like it. I like both characters SEPARATELY, not together. In the Original Series, it was never mentioned that Spock and Uhura had anything going for them other than friendship. And some might point out the episode where, for about five seconds, Uhura seemed to be hitting on Spock. If that’s the case, then one should also point out that he DENIED HER COLD.

Other than that, there was never any hints of Spock and Uhura feeling anything other than friendship for each other. The only reason they were paired together in the 2009 movie was because a) There seems to always have to be at least one freaking love interest in all movies now, no matter what genre, and b) It was a hopeful stab in the dark to diminish Kirk/Spock fans. Really, it was.

I’m not hating on Uhura and I’m NOT hating on Spock. I’m just stating facts. Spock/Uhura is NOT canon and it will NEVER BE canon. The Kirk/Spock fans will NOT stop pairing Kirk and Spock together because, guess what? Kirk/Spock IS canon. Proof? Well, there is a wonderful lady on YouTube named Brittney who lays out all the proof for you. Her web show is called “The Ship’s Closet” and it’s highly entertaining and educational. Another case of proof? “The Wrath of Khan” and “The Search for Spock”. Spock sacrifices himself for the crew and ship, and then he and Jim share a Vulcan kiss. Then, Jim BLOWS HIS SHIP UP for Spock.

Listen, I know that the whole homosexual, bisexual in entertainment is still on touchy grounds, but I’ve seen episodes of Torchwood that weren’t as heart wrenching as the romance between Kirk and Spock. And let’s all just remember that the best episode for Kirk/Spock fans, Amok Time, was written in the 60’S! Now, if you don’t want to pair Kirk and Spock together, fine. Just drop the Spock.Uhura crap and keep both men single. Just please get rid of Spock/Uhura.

508. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

#505. As Scotty has said. Everyone is Entitled to there opinion. You are entitled to yours. But. By not watching and supporting Trek in all of it’s forms. all but killed Star Trek. Thanks to J.J and the court for bringing Trek back from the dead. If not for them we would have no new Trek. I wised that Enterprise had been given another season. Season 4 was truly on track and truly becoming a great series. Yes. Season 2 was not that good. Season 3 was ok. season 4 was finally tuning in to what Star Trek Tos was all about.

509. Andy Patterson - April 3, 2011

Not trying to just be a nay sayer here but I could vote for just about everything on the poll. Is that an option?

510. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

On the nitpick poll there is no option for Chekov’s part being on the wrong side of his head. Unacceptable.

511. Kavinsky - April 3, 2011

Anyways back to the film I think the thing that bothered me the most was the waste of the romulans as a villian

one of the ideas I came up with is that maybe one of the grandsons of the captain of the ship from “the balance of terror” found out during or after the evacuation of romulus after hacking into starfleet command that it was kirk who killed him and wanted revenge on him for dishonoring his family and the potential power the romulan empire could have had if kirk hadn’t stopped him and reported back to the romulan empire about how weak the federation was.

and while hacking into there he finds out about the star trek 4 time trick which was from “tommorow is yesterday” and decides to use that to go back into time to save his father but is found out by the federation and they send spock after him because of his knowlege of the event, but they both go back too early.

512. boborci - April 3, 2011

491. You have the best Trek site ever, by the way.

513. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

Boy I’m a smartass tonight. Suspect my tap water is contaminated with high levels of Sarcasmium 131.

514. boborci - April 3, 2011

479. dmduncan – April 3, 2011

LOL!

515. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Bob. I want to thank you for coming on here and talking with us. Also. Thank you for writing Trek 09 and for writing Trek 12. May you live long and prosper.

516. reb - April 3, 2011

491 Anthony Pasquale

Given some comments on the subject of Spock/Uhura u shld keep in mind that race may still plays its part in this. Also some people only like male/male relationships and are threatened by a romance.

517. JimJ - April 3, 2011

Bob-

I am so glad you are listening to us, at times. Things like calling it a “landing party” instead of an “away team” just make sense and add that little wink to those of us who have been with the show since our childhood.

I am watching the last one as I type this. There are so many things that hold up well. I still say that engineering (and any other design changes) can be justified with Scotty getting ahold of his “girl” and making it his own.

It would also make sense for the Uhura/Spock relationship to get more complex or else even come to an end. After all, there were some problematic things Spock had to deal with in the last movie as a result of his relationship with Uhura. It would still be fun, though, for Uhura to resist Kirk.

As far as Vulcan goes…I still think for those of us who have been with the show since the beginning, it would be cool for the new settlement (New Vulcan) to have the characteristics of Vulcan prime. It would be another wink to all of us that although Vulcan is really gone, it kinda isn’t.

I’m anxious for the next adventure of Kirk, Spock, McCoy & company. I do have to say, though, I’d love for a return of Captain….errrrr……….Admiral Pike. He was great!!! Happy writing!

518. Anthony Pascale - April 3, 2011

Bob

thanks but now I feel like a jerk for all those critiques and you come and say nice things to me. You did that on purpose didnt you? or is that my catholic school guilt?

RE: Love scene in brewery
Oh dear, lets not give him ideas.

Maybe they will do a lantern thing’ with Uhura talking to Scotty and saying “you know this place really needs to be spruced up and it smells like a brewery in here”

519. Kavinsky - April 3, 2011

great great grandfather I mean

and with trek even if everyone had stopped watching it when in my opinion they should have with anything helmed by braga which would be with generations and the begining of voyager

the franchise wouldnt have really died there, the problem was as enterprise proved was Braga

as soon as he gave the reins over to the Manny the series improved dramatically, but it was only to what the first season should have been in the first place

and chances are had it lived on he would have eventually retaken the reins and continued to drive the thing into the ground yet again.

the major problem with him was that he really didnt have any respect for treks past and it showed in all of his forums considering how many bad episodes of voyager and enterprise he let go out there along with the TNG films, I mean no one in there right mind who was a true trek fan would have let such episodes as Caretaker, Threshold, The Q and the Grey, Dear Doctor, and Endgame fly

Not to mention fire Ron Jones of all people

520. Anthony Pascale - April 3, 2011

reb
lets not start accusing people who dont like the S/U thing of being racists. And not sure what you mean by only liking male/male…are you saying that the massive horde of K/S fanfic writers are dominating the poll? that seems unlikely.

I think it is another one of those cases where it was something very different than the original Trek, and just not to some people’s liking.

521. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Hey Anthony. I’m Sure Bob was just being nice. Right Bob.

522. katie - April 3, 2011

Ok, I loved the movie and had no major problems with it. I mean come on, its not like you can get the original actors or anything and today’s entertainment demands are different. Plus by now you really do need a new storyline b/c everything has been done and I don’t think you can really do anything new without messing up the current story lines. I can’t wait to see how the characters develop in the next movie.

I will point out that my nit picking is the Spock/Uhura relationship. Just about everything I want to say is said above so I won’t go into how I think its a little to out of character. But I am open to other people interpretation of the characters.

I do have a question, as a female who actually runs around how are skirts practical? I have nothing against skirts and enjoy them occasionally myself but here are some key words to keep in mind: engineering, medical, military, do you want pants or skirts?

I know the uniforms are based off the original ones from the 60’s, but even the other trek shows had more pants. Please don’t think I’m some fem nazi asking this. It’s more of a curiosity than anything. Also, no I did not sit here and read every single entry so if this was already torn apart for being bizarre don’t tell me…..

523. alyson - April 3, 2011

507. Maranni – Ok, woah there, let’s chill out a little! It’s fine to make a point and outline your complaints, but please, don’t outright bash other ships while you do! It reflects badly on your own ship.

I agree, S/U is not canon. But guess what? And as hard as I ship TOS K/S myself, it is also NOT canon. In the private fangirl circles, in my own head, sure, I might say one thing. But I know it’s not official, and there’s a 99.9% certainty it never will be. Would I prefer it? Sure. Is it going to happen? No. That’s just something we all have to accept.

I’m slowly learning to be more ship-flexible in the nuVerse because I know this is the case. And if you personally disagree with S/U, you still have TOS to fangirl over.

524. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Oh Bob Orci. Are you going to be able to get Del J. Trame into the new movie. I know you said you would try.

525. shelby - April 3, 2011

Slash! Slash! Slash! In the next movie put in the Kirk/Spock pairing. I am dead serious, Kirk and Spock together would be the most amazing thing; the Kirk/Spock following is huge. It would be amazing and bring great attention to the gay community with two much loved characters. It could bring a wonderful untested dynamic to the movie that has been speculated for decades.

526. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 3, 2011

Kirk and Spock are pretty much Brothers. Anything else would not work.

527. Red Dead Ryan - April 3, 2011

For the posters, what I’d like to see is this:

Kirk, Spock and McCoy featured prominently along with the Enterprise with “Star Trek_____” underneath. Above should read:

Chris Pine…….Zachary Quinto…….Karl Urban.

No disrespect to Zoe Saldana or the Uhura character, but Kirk, Spock, and McCoy form the core of TOS-centered or themed Trek. Uhura, Scotty, Chekov and Sulu are secondary characters.

528. dmduncan - April 3, 2011

512. boborci – April 3, 2011

491. You have the best Trek site ever, by the way.

***

True, and you help to keep it that way Bob!

529. Delma - April 3, 2011

Spock/Uhura is canon. It was in the movie – that means it’s canon.

530. Guy from Berlin - April 3, 2011

@ Naver Drol:

I absolut agree with you! I am a filmmaker, and i know what i saying about: No one of these things were necessary for a good and succesfull movie!

My dream is a real TOS Origin Movie! One Day it comes true :-p

531. reb - April 3, 2011

goodpoint , Delma

532. Spock - April 3, 2011

Geez, I mind meld with the guy a couple of times and all of asudden I’m gay?

533. Pat - April 3, 2011

I don’t know about a Kirk/Spock slash but I agree that the next Trek should push the envelope even further. Introduce a gay couple somewhere, maybe Sulu can have a husband. Not as a main feature though. This universe is supposed to be all accepting. Right? By reading some of the posts that constantly state that a certain relationship “made them uncomfortable, etc”, newsflash, Star Trek is supposed to challenge your preconceived thoughts as to what is so- called “right/ normal” in society and if certain characters are used to help bring home the point, then so be it. Afterall, We are dealing with morality plays.
Side note: there have always been romances amongst officers and their hot subordinates in ST.
Kirk and Janice Rand
Picard and Crusher
Picard and the “piano/ scientist lady”
Riker and Troi
Troi and Worf
Worf and Dax
Worf and Ezri
Chakotay and Seven of Nine
Trip and Tpol

534. Gen 30 - April 3, 2011

One of the biggest problems I had with the old trek movies in particular the next gen was that they were not accessible with the exception of First Contact everything elese could have been shown on television. There was an arrogance in the next gen trek that if you didnt watch the hundreds of hours of tv then you were not privy to certain things. They didn’ take risks and played it safe. As a fan I want to see the new movie take risks and turn established canon on its ear. Its a new reality which means you can do new things. I want to see something bold and different. The new film was bold and different. Tell Bob to stay the course and make Trek accessible. Star Wars was always accessible. Say whatever the hell you want. George Lucas did not make his stories and characters that complicated. Star Trek needed to be humbled and it was.

I dont want to see another television episode rehased on screen. Neros incursion changed the reality which also included technology. Vulcans destruction shifted power. I would imagine that Neros incursion destabilized the federation and the other powers. I want to see that. I want to see a high octane shoot em up explosions all over the place space war opera. Star Trek needs to feel special again. Empire Strikes Back is the greatest sci fi sequel ever made. Tell Bob to learn the lessons from that film. It still holds up to this day. Dont do khan just to please fanboys. If you do khan then take the gloves off and do what the old trek could not. Just my thoughts.

535. reb - April 3, 2011

292. Iva – April 3, 2011

“Since Starfleet Academy is not a ghetto high school where such things are normal everyday occurrences which bear no consequences,
nor is Spock’s upbringing bad,
there is no realistic way he as a person would have found himself in that situation in the first place or,”

AP The above is not racist?

536. Delma - April 3, 2011

@ reb Agreed.

537. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2011

Commodore Mike

thanks for your support! I guess it’s time to do something spectacular to deserve it!

538. Beth - April 3, 2011

It’s tempting to cling to canon, but Roddenberry and TOS writers didn’t – Nimoy fought to maintain his character’s integrity, but admitted some episodes he railed against, which put Spock OOC, were most popular with fans. So we might allow the latest writers some creative license.

Spock smiled freely at Pike, remember. You can make sense of almost any scenario writers conjure up, if you wish; Spock acted more human in youth, having escaped the confines of Vulcan, wanting to indulge his human half, to be accepted by peers. By a decade later, Kirk’s ship, he’d decided he’d gone too far, had rejected the human approach for himself.

Roddenberry may have considered writing Spock as a player, but he decided, instead, on an alien who ‘came into heat only once every 7 years,’ and was asexual outside of this time; years later, he endorsed a PG slash short story. He also changed course on other characterizations; Vulcans evolved, within a few episodes, from beings incapable of experiencing emotions, to creatures with passions so violent, they had to be forcefully controlled (definitely more interesting).

With all who died on Kelvin – future births, deaths, and lives would be affected – easy to imagine myriad ways futures, upbringings, and personalities took a different course.

You can have it any way you like, because it’s more fantasy than science fiction. I didn’t like the S/U thing at first, settled with it okay, but am dubious about it going forward. I think S/U must conclude that they can’t pursue a romantic relationship while serving on the same ship – with him as her superior officer – Let JJ decide not to direct. Surely there’s another capable director with less ego, less lens flare, and more genuine interest in ST (though he did a very nice job).

ST has endured because of the legendary FRIENDSHIPS within the triad, more than for any other reason, I think. Lose that, and what do you have? ST 2009 wasn’t there, yet, but as a coming together piece, it worked well enough. I don’t see how ST 2012 can reshape the triangle, however, with four lines. I hope the writers haven’t boxed themselves in.

539. reb - April 3, 2011

Does anyone remember in ST 2009 that families exist on the Kelvin and probably on the Enterprise more like STNG

This is another example of why the 2009 reboot isn’t TOS.

Also on ST:NG Troi & Riker were on again/off again lovers and no one complained.

And yes there are hordes of K/S who would love to have bob & JJ’s version be nothing more than a TOS retread.

But the odd thing is they wouldn’t be interested in seeing a male gay relationship on ST. I would.

The Spock/Uhura relationship is important. How many inter-racial romances in successful big budget VFX films do you know of?

540. MJ - April 3, 2011

@535 “AP The above is not racist?”

Reb has a point here. Given Zaldana is African-American and is paired with a white male actor playing Spock, and giving that Iva is using comments like “ghetto highscool” in negative ways, I can’t fault Reb for making the leap and questining whether there might be something else like the “R-word’ behind Iva’s very negative remarks on Uhura and Spock.

541. MJ - April 3, 2011

I find it rather suspicious that early on in the poll the K/U poll numbers were much lower, but then seemed to spike significantly later today. There are ways to get around the limitations of voting only once on web polls, and I would not be surprised if one or two folks are cheating here and voting multiple times for that category.

542. MJ - April 3, 2011

meant S/U

543. Sam - April 3, 2011

I put in ‘Broad/slapstick humor.’ My strongest dislikes were the swollen hands and Scotty’s Willy Wonka moment in Engineering.

I could have voted for ‘Enterprise redesign’ or ‘Little Nero backstory’. However I am confident the characters will get plenty of development in the next movie, and the E’s disproportionate exterior really isn’t as objectionable to me as Kirk’s swollen hands.

Which isn’t to say that anything about the last movie was a deal-breaker in any way. It really wasn’t. And I haven’t even bothered reading a single one of the LONG list of comments above.

I don’t see the big deal about Spock and Uhura. I’m all for keeping it going, or whatever the writers feel is appropriate there.

In fact, having a Spock/Uhura/T’Pring triangle might be a good way to ‘threaten’ the integrity of the ST family, what with Vulcan destroyed and all. Since real movies are composed of things called story arcs, I expect the films from now on will involve shaking the foundations of the family to some degree.

In the words of a well-known TV producer, don’t give us what [we think] we want. We’re too stupid to know what we want. Give us what we need. You’ve done well so far. Be the next TWOK, the next TVH… the next ST09.

544. MJ - April 3, 2011

@530 “I absolut agree with you! I am a filmmaker, and i know what i saying about: No one of these things were necessary for a good and succesfull movie!”

Great spelling, grammar and sentence structure, “filmmaker.”

545. Nick Cook - April 3, 2011

I loathed the engineering set and would love to see it replaced with something better. That said, story issues concern me far more than cosmetics. The rapid promotion really bugged me, but we’re stuck with that. I guess the main thing I’d like to see, is Scotty treated as something other than the comic relief. All the other characters were recogniseable. Scotty, not so much. Simon Pegg’s an excellent actor, and has far more range than he was allowed to show here.

So yeah, I’d like to see Scotty handled better.

546. reb - April 3, 2011

Thank you, MJ.

Am watching the extras on the ST 2009

Wow! Actually learning film stuff. Like the uses of camera shake.

547. David - April 3, 2011

Just wondering Anthony P. when you would be adding a tab for the 2010 star trek on here? You put the 2009 star trek one up waaaay before the movie. Just wondering. I know I am off topic.

548. David - April 3, 2011

and by 2010 I mean 2012

549. reb - April 3, 2011

BTW, I had a hand in traing ILM’s VFX supervisor on Star Trek.

550. Jeffrey S. Nelson - April 3, 2011

I want spectacle…something akin to the awe I felt when I saw the Balok puppert in “The Corbomite Maneuver.”

551. MJ - April 3, 2011

@549. Very cool !!!

552. Paige - April 3, 2011

#539 – you are making a rather sweeping generalization if you believe that all of us who have voiced protests against the Spock/Uhura romance want to see Kirk/Spock together romantically. Frankly I’m advocate of their extraordinary friendship, along with their friendship with McCoy. “Brothers in Arms” I believe is the phrase that sums up the feeling and warmth captured so brilliantly in TOS. Personally, I consider the relationship of the main trio, who, along with Scotty, are the highest ranking officers on the Enterprise, thus, for all intents and purposes, THE command team a vital element to the series. My non-shipper self felt that her romantic relationship with Spock cut down McCoy’s development and relegated him to a supporting role in ST11, and will, in the future, divide Spock’s time and attention from developing those brotherhood ties to Kirk (and McCoy), ties, as I’ve stated before, I believe are vitally important to the essence of Trek. The names Kirk and Spock are as synonymous in television history as Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, or the Lone Ranger and Tonto. Without it, it just wouldn’t be Star Trek and they should have used new characters and not the names of Kirk and Spock.

AU or not, those of us who are used to watching Kirk and Spock bend the universe to their will through their combined ingenuity as the main plot point, while McCoy bitches them both out for being reckless in that lively, fun and witty way of his, want to continue to do so. No shipper agenda necessary, thank you kindly.

553. Elle - April 3, 2011

Voted for the Spock/Uhura romance – mostly because there is no way Spock would kiss Uhura in the middle of the transporter pad where everyone can see them, even with the possibly of him dying. A Vulcan kiss would have been much more believable. It feels a little like that part was added in for the sole purpose of the audience getting some sort of romantic action.

554. Demode - April 3, 2011

I would really love to see the missing Nero footage used somehow in either a sequel, or a direct to DVD movie. So much potential there to tell an exciting story and fill in the missing gaps.

555. reb - April 3, 2011

#552
I didn’t make a sweeping generalization I was very specific.

Why are you so instant that abrams & company shoe-horn TOS into what is clearly a different universe. Kirk and Spock already have an evoving friendship. That is evident from the last film. But everything is not going to be as it was in TOS. They are making a different film.

556. Seaz - April 3, 2011

I would just like to put my two-cents in and speak directly to Mr Orci if he’s reading in addition to all the other fans here.

I actually really LIKED the Spock/Uhura relationship. If the oldies remember, it very nearly was canon that SPOCK and Uhura were the first interracial kiss on television, but Mr Shatner got the scene instead.

I also think that the relationship between the two – while as a shock to most people – could simply do with a bit more backstory to make it more believable. I think that the only problem people have with the whole relationship is that it seems very out-of-character for the two of them. I disagree. As long as a good explanation is made, the relationship between Spock and Uhura is very believable.

I’ve read many a fanfiction in which both characters stay true to their original traits but the author showed how they could end up together. I’m sure the writers of this movie are wonderfully talented and would be very good at creating scenes which would convince the most obstinate of fans to support what I believe is a wonderful relationship between Spock and Uhura.

557. reb - April 3, 2011

553. Elle – April 3, 2011

Nonsense. Kirk kissed a woman on the BRIDGE of the Enterprise in TOS . An actress hKirk was romancing. So…

558. Seaz - April 3, 2011

Also, to “128. Kirk, James T. – April 3, 2011″

I second pretty much everything you said and I was surprised to see you mention apparel as I never even thought of that until now.
I would buy a shirt with Mr Quinto’s Spock and Mr Nimoy’s Spock on the front.
In a heartbeat.

559. reb - April 3, 2011

For #555 I meant “insistant”

560. Paige - April 3, 2011

#555 – And why are you so insistent that the S/U element be continued? Are you watching Star Trek for Star Trek, or are you watching it for romantic possibilities? Those of us who have always loved Star Trek for Trek only have just our one series, with just those two essential characters, while those of you insistent on romance have numerous films at your disposal.

I realize that ST11 was an alternate timeline, thank you, but what I’m trying to say that the antics of Kirk and Spock as partners/best friends/brothers define the essence of Trek. And it’s what I want to see, in any timeline. In fact, I think it’s all the more sweet if Kirk and Spock find that legendary partnership (in that brother-in-arms way, again, no shipper agenda) in any universe.

Or am I not entitled to an oppinion? Apparently anything that doesn’t agree with your personal perspective is an passed off as someone being too linier in thinking. And weren’t you just preaching tolerance? Hmmmm.

561. MJ - April 3, 2011

@556 “I also think that the relationship between the two – while as a shock to most people – could simply do with a bit more backstory to make it more believable. I think that the only problem people have with the whole relationship is that it seems very out-of-character for the two of them. I disagree. As long as a good explanation is made, the relationship between Spock and Uhura is very believable.”

Well said — I could not agree more!

562. MJ - April 3, 2011

@560 “Those of us who have always loved Star Trek for Trek only have just our one series, with just those two essential characters, while those of you insistent on romance have numerous films at your disposal.”

Elitism rears its ugly head?

563. ds9-girl - April 3, 2011

I don’t care what you do with Spock/Uhura. It was a completely insignificant part of the plot; and I barely noticed it. Uhura was always a secondary character in the show.

Bring on the Kirk-Spock friendship and comrade-in-arms relationship, and focus on that and the K-S-Mc triumvirate. That is at the heart of Star Trek, and that is what I want to see developed in the new film, not some half-assed romance that no one should be wasting time on. This is Star Trek, not some teen drama!

564. MJ - April 3, 2011

@553 “Voted for the Spock/Uhura romance – mostly because there is no way Spock would kiss Uhura in the middle of the transporter pad where everyone can see them, even with the possibly of him dying. A Vulcan kiss would have been much more believable. It feels a little like that part was added in for the sole purpose of the audience getting some sort of romantic action.”

Did we see the same movie? He had not only just been emotionally comprised by Kirk (through the instruction of Spock prime), but his own father just told him it was OK to “get emotional” to take down Nero, as his mother would have wanted him too. So in this vain, the kissing made complete sense to me and I was in fact expecting him to show emotion to Uhura at that point in the film. Brilliant screenplay sequence there, Mr. Orci — thank you!

565. reb - April 3, 2011

Because S/U now is canon.

Kirk and Spock ARE finding their friendship. As I said above. So what are you complaining about?

Those who want nothing but re-tread TOS have been saying so all day.

566. MJ - April 4, 2011

@563. I agree that Kirk-Spock-McCoy should be the main focus, but Uhura has moved up past Scotty as the first person of the secondary crew that I want to see more of in the first film. It would be a shame not to ultize Zaldana’s talents more in this role, as I predict that she has Oscars in her future.

567. Paige - April 4, 2011

I’m getting kind of sick for being coined an ‘elitist’ or implied to be linier because I cherish Star Trek, and would like to see it continue in a vein that brought me the most viewing pleasure.

If your intent is to bully or belittle me into conceeding to your perspective, it’s not going to happen. In fact, from my perspective, it is the S/U shippers who are being the most intolerant, while labeling those of us who didn’t entirely warm up to the S/U relationship in a derogatory fashion. If I was iffy on the ship before, I’m completely soured to it now as it’s shippers are militant to the point of generalizing, stereotyping and resulting to name calling. Not very IDIC of you.

568. reb - April 4, 2011

I agree, MJ.

I’d like to see Uhura with a gun in her hand and fighting.

569. MJ - April 4, 2011

@566 “Those who want nothing but re-tread TOS have been saying so all day.”

Exactly. Give the incessant whining and sentimentality a break.

This all reminds me of a great Trek quote: “V’ger is a child. I suggest we treat it as such.” :-)

570. MJ - April 4, 2011

@567 “If your intent is to bully or belittle me into conceding to your perspective, it’s not going to happen.”

Not at all. My intent was to point out that you are coming across as an elitist, based solely on your views here…not as a personal attack. I reject your attempt to take this difference of opinion to some sort of personal level…again a tendency of elitists when they lose an argument.

571. Paige - April 4, 2011

#569

I suggest you take your own quote to heart. As I see it, you’re the one incessantly whining because some oppinions differ from your own.

And now you’re labeling all of those who voiced concerns over S/U overshadowing the deep friendship of the main trio, as ‘childish’? Why? Because it differs from your own perspective. And you don’t see a double standard here at all?

572. reb - April 4, 2011

I luv it, MJ.

I’m really enjoying the extras! I’ve had this DVD for two years and must’ve thought I already watched it but didn’t.

573. ce - April 4, 2011

563 – preach!

574. Paige - April 4, 2011

#570:

Direct quote: “again a tendency of elitists when they lose an argument.”

Again derogatory. Again generalizing. I’m sorry but you have absolutely no moral high ground to stand on here.

575. MJ - April 4, 2011

@571. Just having fun with the V’ger quote…that is why there was a smiley face there. If you can’t see some humor is this, then that is too bad.

576. MJ - April 4, 2011

@574. No, I don’t think you are sorry. :-)

577. reb - April 4, 2011

#571 Yes I think it is childish to want a repeat of the way things were before without variation when new canon has already been established.

578. Jack - April 4, 2011

289, etc. Yes! Fantastic. And if the ‘space…’ monologue is in this one, which it might not be, I’d be pretty thrilled to see the original version (with simply ‘new life’ rather than the unnecessary ‘lifeforms,’ five-year mission or, simply, mission rather than ongoing mission” and, even, no man… because, as Kirk told Spock after the fiasco with Valeris, “Everyone’s human.”)

Another thing I’d be thrilled by:

the aforementioned 5-year mission, or a variation, because it’s cool that they’re all Master and Commander out on their own, and not just patrolling a gated community like the Enterprise D. I know, it’s tough because of the gap between movies, but, really, I’d love that sense of isolation… and purpose. Plus, they’re out of easy comm range, you don’t have to damage the comm system everytime you want ‘em to have to make tough decisions on their own…

I really liked the flurry of activity in engineering in Trek 09, and I could mostly buy that it was on a ship, at least in the early scenes. I never really bought
the TNG set with the darned fake looking reactor — those flashing lights seemed pretty slow for matter and antimatter being pumped into a reactor.

579. MJ - April 4, 2011

@578 “I really liked the flurry of activity in engineering in Trek 09, and I could mostly buy that it was on a ship, at least in the early scenes. I never really bought the TNG set with the darned fake looking reactor — those flashing lights seemed pretty slow for matter and antimatter being pumped into a reactor.”

Jack, I do like the goal of a more realistic looking engine room, but I couldn’t deal with knowing it had been shot at the Bud Brewery. I agree with you completely thought that the NextGen engine room was cheesy. I am hoping that in the next movie that they can give us a revised engine room that looks both realistic and looks like a something that has ultra-modern warp technology as well.

580. ds9-girl - April 4, 2011

@570 — That’s okay, this is very normal behavior for ‘fans’ of this pairing. We will always have a bunch of S/U enthusiasts ganging up on those who don’t share their opinions. Because the truth of the matter is this: They want everyone who decides to watch the reboot movies to mindwipe any preconceived opinions they may have about Star Trek as a franchise, regardless of whether they’ve followed the Original series or the franchise for 40 years or not. You don’t like S/U in the new movie, go watch TOS. That is their standard advise to everyone. As if everyone who watches reboot HAS to like S/U, or they’re not welcome. Or as if….. everyone who likes some other pairing on the show must’ve been a TOS fan.

I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of elitist snobs in all my years as a Trekkie.

581. ds9-girl - April 4, 2011

The last message was meant for 574! :D

582. NuKirk - April 4, 2011

TO BOB ORCI: Recommendations for the sequel:

1) Get better editors…the last film had tons of obvious bloopers…Robau’s missing command badge in one shot, the flipped upside down Enterprise at Vulcan, the inverted image at the end as Nero yelled SPOCK!!!!! (you could tell it was inverted as his mauled ear was on the wrong side)

2) Part of Trek has always been a wonderful score, but part of what makes films more popular these days is great SONGS mixed into the film, and not just playing on a car radio but woven into the audio like the score is, to mix with the score and complement it, and not unknown songs either, but bigtime songs… I know many hate the Twilight Saga but one thing you can’t fault it with is it picked great songs to complement the films and which enhanced the film’s emotional impact.

For 09’s film Muse’s ‘Supermassive Black Hole’ would have been perfect for the black hole scene at the end, and Britney Spears’ ‘Womanizer’ or Carrie Underwood’s ‘Cowboy Casanova’ song would have been great for the bar scene, as would Hilary Duff’s ‘Any Other Day’ song would have been great for the sequence as Vulcan was being destroyed and into the aftermath…and The Skids’ ‘The Saints Are Coming'(best known to be associated with The Boondock Saints films) would’ve been great for when Kirk and Sock went shooting into the Narada (and would have been a great Easter egg to give a nod that Clifton Collins Jr., who played Ayel, was also appearing in The Boondock Saints II: All Saints Day later that year)…Think along these lines for the next film, and make a SOUNDTRACK album to complement the score. I GUARANTEE YOU IT WILL DRAW IN A LOT MORE MAINSTREAM PEOPLE.

3) Explore MUCH MORE EDGY AND CONTROVERSIAL THEMES in the next film, as that was part of what made the original Trek STAND OUT as legendary TV.

4) One thing original Trek and all Trek was afraid of was crossing the Nudity and F-word line. Not to make Trek get all pointlessly obscene but if it becomes crucial to the story do not be afraid to go into that territory. One F-word + partial nudity can still be achieved on a PG-13 rating.

5) Don’t settle for a good Star Trek movie. Go epic. Aim for Dark Knight territory. Push things so this time around The Academy Awards and other major award shows CANNOT snub the film NO MATTER WHAT.

6) If JJ Abrams isn’t available for the film or does not want to do it, aim for other notables such as Zach Snyder, Joss Whedon or perhaps The Coen Brothers.

7) In casting new roles, aim for mainstream Hollywood, as much as budget allows for. Browse across the industry friends of the stars of the 09 film.

8) Aim BIG. Part of reinventing Trek, while still respecting the old, should be tackling issues that couldn’t be tackled before. Homosexuality, religion, and other topics which have been long-taboo on TV and in Trek in general.

583. Jack - April 4, 2011

Howdy MJ. Agreed. Another,minor, non-story gripe of mine was that the ship really looked more like just a model to me than any previous Trek movie ship — I didn’t get a sense of scale, and I couldn’t easily picture the crew on the thing, even with the bridge window.

Oh, and I was pretty thrilled by the Julia-Roberts-playing-the-Enterprise barb earlier. Funny as heck.

584. NuKirk - April 4, 2011

*typo..Kirk and SPOCK, not Kirk and SOCK LOL

585. reb - April 4, 2011

#580

Its one thing to want a “pairing” of your choosing. Its quite another to demand what has currently been established be suddenly tossed out because it doesn’t conform what you want.

586. NuKirk - April 4, 2011

Add-on: regarding the Spock/Uhura pairing, I actually LIKE it. Part of NuTrek is exploring what COULD have happened but what censors wouldn’t allow then, or what Gene and others chose not to pursue, one of which being the Spock/Uhura relationship, which if you look back at the Original Series and compare it with the film in this regard you understand what happened in the series even better.

587. Paige - April 4, 2011

#576: for once we’re agreed. I’m really not. But I do believe in being polite.

My original complaint was that not everyone who protests Spock/Uhura is a Kirk/Spock shipper and I felt the need to clear the air, there. For that I’ve been called an ‘elitist’, implied to be TOS linier, and ‘childish’. If I’m anything it’s saddened that a series which once expanded so many horizons can produce such intolerance for a differing perspective amongst its fanbase. So in that sense I guess I am sorry… sorry to see all this negativity result from someone stating their preferences and refusing to be generalized for it. I am not, however, and never will be, sorry for my Star Trek preferences. I like what I like. I want to see what I want to see. I enjoy hero archetypes, the influence of Greek mythos, and meta. The main point of the post was to voice what we felt was wrong with ST11 and state our hopes for ST12. So I did. No generalization necessary. No hidden agenda behind my original statement. Just a desire to see our beloved two badass best friends take the universe by storm while taking their belligerent Doctor pal along for the ride. That’s what I (personally) want and what I feel I should be free to state without name calling or labeling.

588. reb - April 4, 2011

#586 Amen, NuKirk.

589. Jack - April 4, 2011

584. Kirk and sock is what happened after Uhura wouldn’t give him the tine of day.

590. reb - April 4, 2011

589. Jack – April 4, 2011

584. Kirk and sock is what happened after Uhura wouldn’t give him the tine of day.

LOL!!

591. NuKirk - April 4, 2011

#589… LOL!!! YES, YES INDEED!!:) LOL… and #588: yup. Also to others about the brewery Engineering: stop griping about canon stuff as that is part of why the general public dislikes Trek and its fans… just sit back and enjoy the film and go with it…plus there is a certain irony in a brewery Engineering…given Scotty’s love of booze ;) LOL You think Doctor Who fans whine about the TARDIS being in the shape of a police box? NO. They roll with it and enjoy the show for the whimsical fun that it is, a lesson us Trekkers can learn from the Whovians, since the ppl behind Enterprise HAD planned, if the show had went into Season 5, a proper crossover with Doctor Who (that is what the Temporal Cold War and Daniels’ Time Agents were foreshadowing)

592. James - April 4, 2011

There can be ways around the budgineering section – enterprises maiden voyage but still being fitted out etc (much like a modern warship today – takes about 3 years from first sailing to operational status… At least in the Royal Navy that is) so we can see the main engineering altered in the sequel, Will the conference room be making a comeback?

Im not sure i agree with the comments about the E’s phaser fire (pulse type phasers were used in the Wrath of Khan) but i do agree about the hand ones cant have a trek film where at least one person doesnt get vaporised by one (the voyage home excluded… and the final frontier… As the effects were as poo as the film)

Score wise tend to agree it wasnt up there with the best of Horner and Goldsmith but i suppose that is down to individual taste.

Hope to see much more of the Enterprise both inside and out in the next one.

593. Jack - April 4, 2011

582. Er, Star Trek should leave Britney alone.

I know, all my jokes come from the Internet 4 years ago. But, yeah, loved (loved!) the Beastie Boys in Trek 09, but I don’t want this thing to turn into Grey’s Anatomy.

594. Paige - April 4, 2011

#585:

Quote: “Its one thing to want a “pairing” of your choosing. Its quite another to demand what has currently been established be suddenly tossed out because it doesn’t conform what you want.”

Isn’t the entire point of the poll to vote for what didn’t work for us in ST11 so it can be corrected in ST12? Isn’t that what everyone who has posted a comment here done? One of the choices in the poll, titled “Biggest nitpick/issue with Star Trek 2009″ was “Spock/Uhura romance” and what is, essentially, going on here is that your upset people chose it and are lashing out. Bottom line.

595. Jack - April 4, 2011

590.
;)

should have been “time.” Oops.

596. NuKirk - April 4, 2011

#593: I know… it was just an example of a song, regardless of who it was from, of one that would have fit Kirk’s personality to a tee.

True, about the Beastie Boys, but they also need songs from today, not just classic stuff…need something to connect to today. Doesn’t have to be Britney, just songs from today too.

597. Steven - April 4, 2011

Nero’s ship. So many issues.

I was annoyed with how powerful, then really weak, Nero’s ship was. It takes like 20 minutes to almost destroy the Kelvin, but Kirk’s daddy still manages to fly the ship into it and disable it so that the Klingon’s capture it and Nero’s crew.

Okay… Then what? The Klingons just hold it for 25 years parked along side the prison planet? Do the Klingons repair it? Don’t they steal all that future Borg and Romulan technology for themselves then scrap it??

Then that same ship trashes 47 Warbirds and later a Federation armada with ease? If only we had a few 25 year old Kelvin-class ships we could take it down!

598. NuKirk - April 4, 2011

#597 not to mention that it looked like the asteroid from Armageddon, but backwards (one of JJ’s Easter eggs to his past projects, Armageddon being the first big film JJ wrote for)

599. reb - April 4, 2011

#597 I always thought it implied that Klingons were not all that tech savy.

Also I think either in the comic book or in the spoken word version of the film they explain that a Klingon dynasty who has control of a particular area might very well hide away what treasures it may possess. Like a ship from the fuure being by the darkside of a moon.

600. SolFlyer - April 4, 2011

Could Scotty please say something – anything – that isn’t just a one-liner … please?

thanks

601. cazza - April 4, 2011

533

Kirk and Rand in a romance? When exactly did that happen? In Enemy Within the wolf part of Kirk tried to rape her. I would hardly call that a romance. Also in The Naked Time Kirk plainly states that regulations prevent him from having a relationship with a crewmember.

My biggest peeves was the blowing up of Vulcan which was way over the top and the Spock/Uhura ‘romance’. Blowing up Vulcan leaves Spock as a member of an endangered species and throws up all kinds of issues such as shouldn’t he really be busy making lots of pointy eared babies rather than risk losing his life out in deep space? And honestly the chances of the Vulcan nation surviving with only 10,000 of them still alive is pretty remote.

As for the Spock/Uhura romance, it surprises me to read comments claiming that it worked and made sense. It’s confined to three scenes and in none of those scenes do they have what amounts to a proper conversation, worse the ‘romance’ seems one-sided. Spock starts out by trying to put Uhura on a different ship, On the ship, she is forced to approach him as he does not seek out her company. Spock refuses to confide in her and so she is not involved in helping him deal with any of his issues. When he does deal with his issues he still doesn’t confide in her. The romance is not enough to keep him on the ship. He doesn’t question Spock Prime about his relationship with the Uhura of his time. Spock returns to the ship in order to have a defining friendship with Kirk. If that is an example of a great romance then I would rather stay single.

602. Keachick - April 4, 2011

I am OK with the Spock/Uhura relationship. It would not worry me unduly if the pair decided to take time out or not. What has bothered me are some of the inaccurate, outrageous and downright nasty comments made about this particular relationship. These comments have caused me to defend this relationship as being as legitimate as any other and I have not enjoyed seeing it tainted by some people’s crude and mindless projections. There is no evidence to suggest that Spock or Uhura have done anything wrong, that what relationship they have has interfered with their abilities as professional crewmembers of a starship. I just can’t stand this unjustified vilification.

Personally I would rather see that they go where Trek has not gone before and give James T Kirk a girlfriend, who is NOT Carol Marcus, who does not die, and where a loving (sexual) relationship can develop. Sometimes she is on the Enterprise with him, sometimes not. It would be a sub-plot, with the main focus being given the developing friendship between Kirk and Spock with McCoy keeping the two in check, or is it Kirk keeping Spock and McCoy in check? or perhaps in this timeline, is it Spock keeping Kirk and McCoy in check?

#456 – People like Kirk and Spock should be procreating in order to help keep the gene pool strong and bright (brawn AND brain).

Spock may be a hybrid or not. If Vulcans can only reproduce every seven years, having the right kind of human DNA that governs reproductive capabilities may be of great use to Vulcans, given humanity’s greater fertility. Spock could very well contain this. If Spock can have children with either a Vulcan and/or human woman, then he probably should. It would be better if the younger Spock made a valuable contribution (healthier sperm) to the Vulcan colony once settled, but I doubt the older Spock is past doing so himself …

Romulus, in this alternate timeline, still exists and I suspect will play a more significant role in these stories than it did in the TOS episodes. Romulans are genetically related to Vulcans, for one thing…

603. MJ - April 4, 2011

@580. ds9-girl – “That’s okay, this is very normal behavior for ‘fans’ of this pairing. We will always have a bunch of S/U enthusiasts ganging up on those who don’t share their opinions. Because the truth of the matter is this: They want everyone who decides to watch the reboot movies to mindwipe any preconceived opinions they may have about Star Trek as a franchise, regardless of whether they’ve followed the Original series or the franchise for 40 years or not. You don’t like S/U in the new movie, go watch TOS. That is their standard advise to everyone. As if everyone who watches reboot HAS to like S/U, or they’re not welcome. Or as if….. everyone who likes some other pairing on the show must’ve been a TOS fan.”

Wow, do you really believe this? So we are all out to get you? So we are insisting you go back and watch TOS? So we are pushing an agenda that you are not welcome here?

This has got to be the most myopic “me-first” argument on a Trek topic that I have seen in 2.5 years of posting on these boards. Sheesh, are you fracking kidding me???

NOTICE TO SECRET CABAL MEMBERS:
Hey everyone who is part of our secret cabal to keep TOS true fans from posting here — wanted to make you all aware that we are having a meeting at the usual place tomorrow night. You will not be allowed in unless you know the secret handshake. Tomorrow nights topic will be implementation of our final secret plan for getting the “true TOS fans” off of this web site.

(LOL)

604. MJ - April 4, 2011

@602 “What has bothered me are some of the inaccurate, outrageous and downright nasty comments made about this particular relationship. These comments have caused me to defend this relationship as being as legitimate as any other and I have not enjoyed seeing it tainted by some people’s crude and mindless projections. There is no evidence to suggest that Spock or Uhura have done anything wrong, that what relationship they have has interfered with their abilities as professional crewmembers of a starship. I just can’t stand this unjustified vilification.”

Amen Keachick, amen!

605. MJ - April 4, 2011

@601. “And honestly the chances of the Vulcan nation surviving with only 10,000 of them still alive is pretty remote.”

Wrong. Geneticists have determined that the human race could be populated on a new planet with as little as 250 people. 10,000 provides a very rich gene pool.

So given this is not a concern, you can rest easy knowing that Spock logically still consider Uhura a mate without damaging the Vulcan race’s comeback.

606. fanboy B - April 4, 2011

as of right now, the only thing i had a problem with was the lens flares

other than that, I thoroughly enjoyed it

607. reb - April 4, 2011

Is anyone else having tech probs with commenting?

608. reb - April 4, 2011

If you think some poll that you can easily to vote in any number of times has any validity, you’re sadly mistaken, #594

609. reb - April 4, 2011

#594 There are other polls where 59% of think the romance should continue.

And why would anyone take seriously voting on a central character element which has as many votes as dislike for the Brewery being engineering.

If JJ et al want to take such polling seriously Paramount should hire reputible pollsters to do it.

610. cazza - April 4, 2011

@605

The base number is 350 and the THEORY goes that would only work if the examples were as genetically diverse as possible. So if many of the Vulcan survivors happened to be related to each other you’d end up with a number of freakish babies among the normal ones. And don’t forget that figure of 10,000 survivors is spurious as how can anyone know at that point just how many Vulcans have survived? Also I don’t get what the question of Vulcan’s future has to do with whether Spock should to continue to hook up Uhura, I certainly didn’t imply it did.

I personally haven’t seen any particularly inaccurate, outrageous and downright nasty comments relating to the Spock/Uhura romance. People are simply saying why it is that partnership within this film did nothing for them. What is inaccurate or outrageous about that? In turn those people have been accused of being racist, or of wanting to see Spock get in on with Kirk. Even if that is the case people are entitled to air that view because this is an open forum and I seriously doubt that will persuade the screenwriters to go for that pairing in the next movie. As for the cries of racism, I’m haven’t read one comment from those against the relationship pertaining to Uhura’s colour. That has been brought into the debate by the S/U shippers and that is what I think is plain nasty and outrageous.

611. Paige - April 4, 2011

#608: There you go again, making negative connotations because the popular opinion differs from your own. Those against seeing more Spock/Uhura in the next movie are in the lead, then, by golly, there must be some serious cheating going on!

I believe there is a term for that lovely bit of logic. A fallacy of logic, if you were:

…Moving the goalpost (raising the bar): argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded…

I voted once, thank you. I do not see the need to ‘cheat’. The poll asked what my opinion was, I stated it. And whether the poll has any validity or not is not the issue here. The issue is you have verbally lashed out for anyone having an opinion that differs from your own. And the kicker is that you’re so defensive of your ship that you’ve rationalized this behavior as entirely acceptable, its the other guy whose in the wrong. Obviously you’re taking this poll to heart, because you’ve certainly put on quite the display!

And not just you…

#603: To be fair, you’re certainly giving me the impression that there was some truth to ds9-girl’s claims. I’m not a shipper, so I wasn’t coming here with a shipper mindset at all. Nor did I have any history with your ship (or any ship) to taint my perspective prior to posting today. But my stating that I wanted to see less romance and more bromance of the friend-shipper sort certainly resulted in a rather startling and disturbing verbal play-by-play. I believe ‘elitist’ was the term you used. I don’t think it’s much of stretch for ds9-girl to make that claim when I’ve just witness that particular pattern of behavior, i.e. verbally castrating a differing opinion by using derogatory implications and generalizing, first hand.

Don’t want the reputation of a bully for your ship? Don’t resort to bullying behavior. I must say, based entirely on our interactions today, my opinions of the attitudes and behaviors of the S/U shippers who have posted here aren’t leaving me with warm, fluffy feelings and a sense of camaraderie amongst fellow Trek fans. If anything, again based entirely on what I’ve witnessed here today, what I see are individuals so defensive of their ship that they’re blinded to the actions that they themselves display but they’re sure fast to pin on others. Negativity. Derogatory name calling. Implying that anyone who doesn’t agree with them is either a TOS elitist with tunnel vision or a shipper of another, conflicting, pairing. Because apparently no one not in either of those categories could possibly not want to see Spock and Uhura together. There is a fallacy for this too:

…False dilemma (false dichotomy): where two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options, when in reality there are more…

#602 stated that it annoyed her that the S/U ship was receiving negative publicity. I’m also annoyed, immensely so, that I received such negative commentary from S/U fans simply because my opinions of a non-S/U variety differed from S/U fans.

Barry White once sang it best… practice what you preach.

612. P Technobabble - April 4, 2011

While the script may not be finished, I’m sure most of it is in place. But one thing I’d like to see carried over from TOS is the introspective nature of Kirk. The Captain Kirk of TOS seemed like a poet at times — like when he repeated phrases such as, “All I ask is a tall ship…,” and “they say the sea is cold…” Obviously a well-read man with depth.
I think this adds to Kirk’s character, making him more human, and not just a super-hero. TOS Kirk was a romantic, in the classical sense of the word. It was part of his character.

613. Capes - April 4, 2011

Bob Orci….

Out of the 60 billion words already typed out on this chat you neglected to comment on my little post #216. I am inconsolable…..

On the other hand, I personally have enjoyed what you have done so far…..you aren’t going to please everybody. So RUN with it while you’ve GOT it…..

Thanks!

614. paulie2906 - April 4, 2011

@611

I agree with everything you have said and it is annoying that every time there is a debate about the Spock/Uhura pairing that shippers of that pairing decide to throw their weight around, as if doing so will make everyone else come round to their way of thinking.

I’m with you in that Uhura comes off as a bit of a bully. She is sarcastic to Kirk during the simulation when she should be being professional. She sits with a smirk on her face during the hearing when he is faced with possibly being kicked out of the academy and in the hanger scene she floats close to insubordination when she demands that her commanding officer put her on the ship of her choice. Within a military organisation you can request a posting but you cannot demand it as your God given right. To be fair to Uhura I don’t think that the writers understand that naturally strong and independent women don’t have to resort to these kinds of tactics in order to get through life, especially in a time period when inequality is a thing of the past. On top of that she is involved in a romance with a man who clearly couldn’t give two hoots about her and is plainly more interested in having a defining friendship with a man he barely knows. Anyone who truly likes Uhura as a character shouldn’t be happy about any of this.

615. I'm Dead Jim - April 4, 2011

Hey Bob Orci, I know this probably isn’t your area, but why can’t we get a good model kit of your Enterprise? Do you have any insight at all into that? What happened? Waiting for a re-fit?

616. Swing-21 - April 4, 2011

I voted Spock/Uhura shipping, but it’s more of a problem with Uhura’s character. In TOS she was this icon: a black female professional that actually worked on the bridge with the men. I feel like the 2009 movie cheapened her role as the token «kickass» female that we see too often in movies nowadays. Also, she lost all traces of her sweetness and just look plain bitchy, if you excuse the expression.

What bugged me the most, is that she was also reduced to be a token love interest, no matter that she went for Spock instead of Kirk. It seems that a girl can’t be smart, pretty, kickass in a movie without being the love interest of one of the main characters. She’s more than that. Also, she’s too profesional to have a relationship with a professor and her commanding officer. She doesn’t need rumors floating around about how she got her promotion (rumors that would happen to be true, sadly).

And then, take Spock at the end of the movie. He was all ready to leave her to go breed Vulcan babies, but decides to come back because he’d been promised a life-changing friendship with Kirk. Nothing to do with her. Honestly? I would have been furious and dumped the guy right there.

What about Scotty, huh? If Uhura ends up with Scotty later in life (and aren’t they cute?), I don’t think Spock is actually her kind of man. Can he really satisfy her emotional needs? He can’t deal with his own, even less with the emotions of a human female.

In resume, I think Uhura should be more that Spock’s Oedipus complex in the next movie. Dump the Vulcan, you’re better than that!

617. Jack - April 4, 2011

612. Agreed. They laid it on a little thick in a couple of the later movies (it seemed more like he was trying to pick up Catherine Hicks and googled the poem on his way down to engineering) but, yeah. In the second pilot, Gary Mitchell said he was a stack of books with legs back in the academy, and a real taskmaster to students who took his classes. I’d like to see more of that guy.

618. stargazer - April 4, 2011

Seriously Anthony–I really wish you would have left Spock/Uhura out of this poll (because as you can see), the results are guaranteed to be skewed by mostly female fans with an identifiable agenda. I have been on enough ST boards to realize that a lot of the vehement dissension is coming from K/S slashers and those with prejudice/racist dilemmas. Sure, there are some who dislike it for whatever reason–but most are falling into the first two categories. These same fans arguing against Uhura and Spock being together would have had no problem with a relationship if the love interest would have been, say, Chapel. This has even spilled over to the real actors themselves by those who are having trouble discerning reality from fiction.

Majority of the men on this topic got it right. They are actually voicing concerns that have relevance to the film and the sequel. I haven’t watched a movie yet that hasn’t been flawed in some way. Star Trek 2009 is enjoyable–a beginning/origin introduction that has established the writers and director as more than capable in my opinion. They have presented us with a journey based on characters in the ST universe that are having very different experiences in their “alternate” universe. The writers/director have gone boldly, and now some people can’t handle it. I personally like what has been presented, and look forward to the sequel. Can’t please everybody and all that.

619. NuKirk - April 4, 2011

@ #611…except for me, who a ways up simply stated that the S/U relationship could enhance what we know about Spock & Uhura of TOS/TOS films… and did not resort to childish bickering unlike some of these folks, who, as Worf world say, are acting like a pack of Ferengi LOL

620. NuKirk - April 4, 2011

MY PROBLEM however is the poll results so far have people taking more issue with the brewery engineering and the Spock/Uhura romance than with THE DESTRUCTION OF VULCAN!!!! PLEASE PEOPLE, THE DESTRUCTION OF VULCAN IS A MUCH BIGGER ISSUE!!!

621. suzieq - April 4, 2011

Never mind engineering looking like a brewery, the bridge looked like an Apple Store. Was killing off Spock’s mother supposed to make him want to get closer to Uhura because he spent most of the film trying to get her off the ship or avoiding her. What is up with the new Scotty? He’s more like the village idiot than a cool engineer who can change the laws of physics. Also it is just not believable that a cadet fresh out of the Academy would have the chops to command a starship with about 800 crewmen especially as Spock is more experienced. Didn’t understand why so much time was wasted telling us that Spock needed to find balance between his logic and his emotions. This was already explored in TOS and the movies and this movie said nothing new about it. Why did Chekov have to be 17? Didn’t Wesley Crusher teach us that having teenagers on the enterprise was not a good thing? And lastly it would have been so much better to have a genuinely scary villain. As someone already pointed out Nero was nothing more than a bad rehash of Khan.

622. Frederick - April 4, 2011

Yeah, but the brewengineering can be fixed by spending some money on a big new set. The Vulcan destruction issue is done and over with; although I didn’t like it, it can’t be changed now without being a major plot point and more time travel.

623. VZX - April 4, 2011

617: Well, in the last movie Pike did say his aptitude scores were off the charts. And that he was a “genius-level repeat offender.” My guess is since in this alternate realty, without his dad to guide him, Jim Kirk became more like Will Hunting from Good Will Hunting. A super-smart thug.

In the prime universe, he is more focused with his father around to reign in that personality, so he then is that “stack of books with legs.”

624. Mark Lynch - April 4, 2011

I wanted to choose several items in that poll list. Any chance of being able to configure for multiple simultaneous choices?

My total nitpicks (worst first)
Brewery used for engineering (this was my eventual vote)
Redesigned enterprise (mainly the scale issue)
Kirk’s rapid promotion
Destruction of Vulcan
Spock/Uhura romance

625. Romy - April 4, 2011

It’s a shame this isn’t multiple choice. I voted for the ghastly brewery-as-engineering, but could equally well have voted for a half-dozen of the others, including the OOC S/U romance (Note to rabid S/U fans – neither of these characters is a favorite of mine, and I also dislike K/S. I just don’t buy that this relationship is convincing or necessary, and it does Uhura a massive disservice by showing that she got onto the Enterprise Bridge by sleeping with her instructor. Yay, way to go, what an excellent role-model. Not).
Back to engineering. Any possibility of having Keenser surgically removed along with all that stupid pipework? And please – please – return Scotty to being a respected, authoritative, intelligent officer, and stop with the clowning. If Simon Pegg is incapable of delivering what’s needed, then recast the role.

626. newjack - April 4, 2011

@618

Generalisations are never a good thing, I’m female and I am not a K/S shipper. I dislike the S/U pairing because it adds nothing to the film and makes the characters look bad. It actually made me laugh when Bob Orci said that it was one of the main reasons that JJ decided to do the film. JJ must have ended up disappointed in the romance because it’s relegated to just three scenes, one of which involves Spock trying to get rid of her after having possibly slept with her, while in the other two, Uhura is reduced to cornering and then jumping him in the turbolift (during a red alert no less) and the transporter room. And don’t forget that JJ also said about that turbo lift scene exists because he understood that the audience would be wanting to give Spock a hug and as he and Kirk are not friends yet it had to be Uhura. So she ranks behind his duty to Starfleet, to the ship and now to Kirk. Indeed the film ends on the Spock and Kirk friendship which is described as defining. To define a thing is to give it meaning. If that is what the Spock and Kirk friendship will be what the heck does that leave for Uhura? As I said it’s a relationship that does neither character any favours.

627. Hateya - April 4, 2011

@Boborci

A favor please? Please move Uhura beyond linguist, xeno or otherwise, = translator.

The Chief Communications Officer is a department head, right? Regardless of what happens with an officer here on Earth in 2011, let’s expand this position in the movie. Uhura should not only be the external ears of the ship, but also the internal ones.

Put her in charge of psychology (not psychiatry – that’s Dr. McCoy’s territory), sociology, philosophy, cryptology, anthropology, linguistics and other miscellaneous departments not under the jurisdiction of anyone else. She need not run these areas directly. That’s what subordinates are for. More than likely, she’d have reasonable expertise in these positions and could be vital to a landing party.

A non-writer like me could pull this off and I’m sure a professional writer like you can do BETTER.

More than likely Uhura would be so gifted in languages due to her continental African HERITAGE!

628. Edgar - April 4, 2011

Push the envelope. Reveal that Chekov and Sulu are dating. ;)

629. CJS - April 4, 2011

@boborci

I think you should cast Lindsey Lohan as Leila Kalomi and stage a catfight between her and Saldana.

630. Scott McC - April 4, 2011

I really liked ST09 (I thought it way better than Star Wars I-III for example) and my points are fairly minor:

-Bring back TOS red alert klaxton (as heard in the movie trailer).

-Introduce some more of the iconic bridge sounds.

-Journey time to Vulcan seemed far too short.

-Turbolift journey time also seemed far too short.

-Ships main Phasers didn’t convey sense of power. Seemed more like a scattergun than a focused energy weapon.

-Also I coudn’t clearly distinguish between use of ships Phasers and Photon Torpedoes in final battle with the Narada.

-Main issue-Scotty! Simon Pegg (great as he is) needs to rein in the comedy next time out. I could never believe that the character we met in the first movie could be placed in command in the event Kirk and Spock were both off the ship. Lets see him as the great-genius level engineer solving problems and not the source of one liners.

“The brewery”-no issues and thought that the use of an engineering plant conveyed for the first time the size of the Enterprise in a heavy engineering sense. I would like to see those locations return and be augmented by another section containing the “big” physics depicted in the conceptual art. If a refit were implemented how about Spock prime provide the justification by telling Starfleet about complimentary technical advances in the prime timeline up until the current stardate.

Spock and Uhura-no issues and surprised it has featured so strongly in this forum.

Kirk achieving command so early-no issues and this seems consistent with cannon. The book on TOS “The Making of Star Trek” states that Kirk was the youngest Captain in Starfleet history at that time and it’s also consistent with what we saw in TOS (compare Kirk with Captains Decker and Tracy).

Size of the Enterprise-no issues and I thought the creators of ST09 did a great job in coveying the massive size of the ship (as mentioned “the brewery” aided giving the ship it’s scale). I never felt it was on a par with a Star Destroyer as some have commented, which if memory serves was supposed to be 5 miles long (see “The Art of The Emprie Strikes Back”). That it’s “possibly” larger than the Enterprise-D is also for me not an issue as we are in a different timeline.

I thought that the music score for ST09 was superb and it’s the most I’ve played a soundtrack album in years. I’d love to see the composer raid the tresure trove of original series cues from for example “The Naked Time”, “Mirror Mirror” and “What are Little Girls Made of” (much of which was recyled throughout the show). As an example, for percussive bombast look no further than the war drums heard in “What are Little Girls Made of” (used in many episodes but off the top of my head, heard when Gary Seven steps of the Transporter platform in “Assignment Earth”).

Awesome music.

Cheers

631. Edgar - April 4, 2011

Also, I loved Spock/Uhura, please keep it. I loved seeing a glimpse of a mature relationship of people who respected each other’s intelligence, and that for once the girl chose the nerdy guy. :)

632. J. Li - April 4, 2011

Attention Kirk/Spock shippers: your pairing isn’t canon and never will be. The sooner you accept this, the happier everyone will be.

Anthony: this page has been linked to several crazy Kirk/Spock slash communities, which is why the poll looks the way it does.

633. Mark Lynch - April 4, 2011

Fantastic to see Bob Orci hanging around in here……

Bob, there are some great comments on here relating to what us fans would like to see changed or added to in the next film.

I hope you are able to sort the wheat from the chaff and incorporate the best of them.

My ideas/requests? Please consider the following….. ;)
* Any chance of a lot less lens flares? (More of a J.J.A request I suppose)
* Proper Engineering set
* Phaser beams – Not Phaser bolts
* Phaser pistol with only two settings, a bit limiting don’t you think? TOS phasers had various settings, right up to overload
* Landing Party – Not Away Team
* Lets see more interiors of the Enterprise, crew quarters, recreation room, phaser control, things like that. Perhaps areas hinted at in TOS, but never seen
* Better scale for the Enterprise (currently 800+ metres, that’s bigger than the bloody Enterprise E!)
* Trim back the nacelles a bit, they look uncircumcised to me!
* Have Spock be a bit more in control of himself. Even if he is involved with a human female, I think it is too OOC to have him canoodling in front of other crew members
* More Bones!
* Lets see Kirk/Spock/McCoy become the team we know and love
* A few more nods and winks to the TOS days
* A more dramatic and less comic-relief Scotty, Simon Pegg is more than up to the challenge
* No slapstick humour would be nice, let the humour come organically out of the situation itself

Lastly, but by no means least, a riveting story which takes us on a thought provoking and exciting ride for at least two and a half hours…

Okay Bob, got all that? ;)

On a serious note please don’t think I hated your last Trek movie. Everything mentioned above IMO would simply improve an already good start. A lot of things were good and a couple of them great. I really hope you “knock the ball out of the park” with the next one!

P.S.
Apologies to anyone who might have already stated what I have said in this post. I just didn’t have enough time to read every single post before putting this in.

P.P.S.
Bob, please feel free to use any of my suggestions, if any of them are original and you make use of them, do not feel obliged to pay me anything. Just a mention in the closing credits will be payment enough! ;)

634. jas_montreal - April 4, 2011

i know this is off-topic, but 633+ comments in one thread ?!? Record for trekmovie.com ?!?

635. P Technobabble - April 4, 2011

Pretty sure we hit 2000 posts in one thread. Definitely hit over 1000 on several occasions.

636. Iva - April 4, 2011

“””””””””””””””””””535. reb – April 3, 2011@ #292 Iva – April 3, 2011

“Since Starfleet Academy is not a ghetto high school where such things are normal everyday occurrences which bear no consequences, nor is Spock’s upbringing bad, there is no realistic way he as a person would have found himself in that situation in the first place or, in the fairytale world where he would – failed to report himself and accept the disciplinary measures.”

AP The above is not racist?””””””””””””””””””

No, your implication however – that ghetto means black people only, is.
Please, do think.

637. elliotkittycat - April 4, 2011

It would be good to mention Vulcan blowing up as it is a big deal and it would be strange if it was just forgotten.

Reducing Scotty to the comic relief was criminal. In the next movie please make him more dignified and not just there to mouth unfunny one liners.

Hopefully Kirk will come across as a believable member of Starfleet and captain and less of an annoying frat boy. It also would be good to see more of that Kirk and McCoy friendship.

Not interested in seeing Spock be anything other than the Spock we have known and loved for 44 years. So no more public kissing scenes. If the romance with Uhura continues I’d like to see it handled realistically. That means showing the problems that come with sleeping with someone in the same chain of command or that someone would question how long it had been going on and if that as the reason for her being assigned to the Enterprise because I am sure that would happen.

Wouldn’t mind seeing more of Pike as I thought that Bruce Greenwood did a great job with the character.

It would be good to see the Spock, Kirk friendship actually develop rather than just skip ahead to them being bosom buddies.

638. Edgar - April 4, 2011

636

So, you meant ghetto as in “closed-off Jewish community,” then, huh? Of course, we should have known.

The Uhura hate here, down to complaining that she was “uppity and bitchy” and requesting that she “know her place” in the sequel, sure doesn’t seem racist at all. If only she could have been as sweet and “classy” and in the background as she was in TOS!

639. Kavinsky - April 4, 2011

Yeah and it wasnt that long ago either when the same news post was up for I think a good week or so a few months ago and got roughly 2000 posts on it

and just a slight correction to my earlier posts I meant Rick Berman, I got there names mixed up.

and Bob if your still reading this please try and make the enterprise interiors look abit more military and ST 2 like in the next incarnation especially with the controls and engineering but try and get a good middle ground between it and the TNG look and that like they did with the little seen ST 4 Bridge

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4642/constitutionclassrefitb.jpg
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8440/800pxussenterprise28alt.jpg

hell maybe it all it needs is a floor switch with the bridge

and please try and see if you can get them to do this with the enterprise for the next film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1y1N3ZQDNc

or atleast some sort of a middle ground with it by making the neck higher, further forward and the nacelles further apart

640. alien_underpants - April 4, 2011

My main ‘gripe’ was that the essence of star trek was completely missing from this film. All it was was a summer blockbuster action movie. I have seen enough of those in my 22 years on planet earth. The whole reason I started watching the older star trek incarnations (TOS & TNG) is precisely because they have an essence to them which made them unique. This movie was not unique at all. It was like any superhero movie but with a star trek facade. JJ abrams has successfully stripped star trek of everything that made it star trek. I am quite certain the creator of the original star trek would have condemned this movie as nothing like his vision.

641. Christopher Roberts - April 4, 2011

Can we talk about the origin of McCoy’s nickname – Bones?

A throwaway line about his ex-wife having left nothing him nothing but his bone, is funny moment… but has anyone considered why McCoy got referred to as that in the Prime Universe?

Sawbones a term for a medic working in the armed forces, similar to electricians being sparks. While at first glance it may seem impossible to still use that in the future, haven’t you guys ever watched “Space Seed”? Dr. McCoy keeps antique surgical equipment on display in sickbay. He either has an interest in history or simply collects out-dated tools.

As a Starfleet Academy cadet, he would have taken an optional course on the history of medicine. This together with his good old fashioned country Doctor attitude, probably means if the power went down aboard the Enterprise, he would revert to time honoured medical techniques… including at one point resorting to amputation if it were likely a patient would be dead by the time main power was restored.

– – – – –

Also isn’t Karl Urban’s take on McCoy’s attitude to Spock, a bit strong considering they’ve only just met? Look at the Original Series and Deforest’s largely profanity free anger at the Vulcan. It’s only later in the Harve Bennett films, it gets that way after several decades working together. Hobgoblin was there for sure, but I was taken aback to her him referred to a pointy-eared bastard.

Unless I’m completely missing something in the next film, something to do with the “Balance of Terror” revelation (Vulcans and Romulans looking alike) having happened 30 years earlier than it should. The Federation, Starfleet, even Earth having been attacked several times while McCoy was growing up and that’s heightened his predjudice.

642. Kavinsky - April 4, 2011

and as a last note when making the new enterprise a space hotrod should have never been the inspiration for it, maybe for the defiant but certainly NOT the enterprise.

hell all that was wrong with the TMP one was that the neck was a touch too thin and the area around the deflector dish needed to be made to look a touch more aerodynamic ala the excelsior

and maybe made the paint job a little less complicated around the engineering section like on the old one ala that blue plate around where Khan Hit in ST 2

643. Christopher Roberts - April 4, 2011

641. EDIT – Bones, not bone… unless he’s being demoted!

644. gingerly - April 4, 2011

Haha, the poll results are as expected.

I picked Nero. I truly believe that more often than not, the tension in a story is based on what the villain brings to the table.

If he’s/she’s/whatever’s not bringing much, then they are fighting for/against much either.

645. alien_underpants - April 4, 2011

Oh and I want to add that, sorry mister orci, star trek is not just about ‘character moments’ but philosophy moments too, even if they get slightly preachy sometimes. The original and TNG set themselves apart from everything else intellectually. This movie seeks to ‘bring star trek to the masses’ by catering to their every mindless indulgence. That’s not star trek at all. Gene roddenberry, the creator of star trek, would more than likely hate your movie mister orci, I am very sorry to inform you of this cold, harsh fact. Although I was only 2 years old when mister roddenberry passed away I have done my research on the man and he seemed extremely cerebral when it came to much of his work. Star trek was his canvass from which to weave images of social justice and a future he thought was more civilized than the crap going on in society today. And it had a cult following, for that very reason. It drew in people who felt ostracized, like misfits, or marginalized by society because they were ‘different’. It gave people hope. This latest movie does nothing but distract people for 2 hours with special effects and mediocre acting (yes, sorry you abrams lovers, the acting in the 2009 movie was absolutely gut wrenchingly horrid). If it were up to me they would give up production on this second movie, donate the money to the people of japan and admit that they completely lost the plot. That would redeem them in my eyes. That would be the 23rd century thing to do.

646. cazza - April 4, 2011

@638

Why is that Uhura shippers persist in bringing race into the debate the minute the S/U is questioned? I’m a black female living in the UK whose mother insisted on me watching Star Trek when I was growing up because Uhura was the only positive black female on TV at the time. Yes she wore a short skirt and showed a lot of leg but she was an officer who had the respect of the other crewmen. She did not spend her time chasing after her fellow officers like Chapel and Rand but got on with the job she was there to do. True she didn’t have many lines but who can think of TOS without remembering Uhura?
Fast forward 40 some years and what do we get? The insinuation that Uhura was sleeping with her professor who then places her on the Enterprise because she insists that he do so. Her skill in picking up and deciphering a Klingon transmission isn’t even shown on screen and it is Kirk who works out that it is significant. Uhura’s linguistic skills include being able to tell Romulan from Vulcan surely that would a very basic requirement of a xenolinguistics qualification and what difference does it make as the Romulans speak Standard?
While on duty she abandons her post in the middle of a red alert in order chase Spock into the lift and kiss him causing him to waste valuable time which could have been spent rescuing the Vulcan High Council. Later she abandons her post yet again this time to chase Spock into the transporter room where she surely breaks protocol by initiating a kiss in front of her fellow officers.
I had hoped to see Uhura being developed as a proper character who had the potential to take over command and lead away missions. Instead we get a confused romance and nothing else. So to my mind there is very little about this Uhura that could be admired and I certainly wouldn’t describe her as a role model. Does that make me a racist?

647. Kavinsky - April 4, 2011

alien_underpan they HAD to go that way because of how bad Rick Berman and Brandon Braga ran Star trek and pretty much everything great about it into the ground I mean just look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_ZbVk_Dh9E

and while ST 09 was flawed and the story could have been better with the romulan menace see my previous post along with the enterprise herself

(seriously they should have gone with madkoifshises design)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1y1N3ZQDNc

it was atleast trying to be something other than a rehash of TNG or the earlier films and for that I thank them for reviving star trek and not having those two idiots anywhere NEAR the controls.

648. gama - April 4, 2011

612 Yes, this. Loved the poetry – quoting , introspective TOS Kirk. Sure would like to see that in nu!Kirk.

Can’t say I liked the Spock – Uhura pairing – it’s seems rather OOC for Spock to hook up with Uhura while she’s a cadet & he’s a professor. It does disservice to both characters. (and no I don’t ship K/S.)

Please show us some of the legendary Kirk-Spock-McCoy friendship that made the show what it was.

649. Iva - April 4, 2011

638. Edgar – April 4, 2011
The Uhura hate here, down to complaining that she was “uppity and bitchy” and requesting that she “know her place” in the sequel, sure doesn’t seem racist at all. If only she could have been as sweet and “classy” and in the background as she was in TOS!

Honestly, who cares? The main point here with all of the people voting S/U was the ooc behavior and lack of credibility concerning Spock, as well as the damage it will do to the triad.

650. Christopher Roberts - April 4, 2011

641. (continued) I almost forgot… check out “A Piece if the Action”. Kirk is aware of the origin of McCoy’s name.

[Shat does Edward G .] “Yeah, see. Waaah-Wahhh. Cover him Sawbones.”

651. stargazer - April 4, 2011

@ 626. newjack – April 4, 2011

“Generalizations are never a good thing”

Whose generalizing? Does the truth hurt much, and that’s why your reading comprehension has been affected? I used the word “some” which means not all. I clearly stated in my commentary that their are those who dislike the relationship for whatever reason.

“Bob Orci said that it was one of the main reasons that JJ decided to do the film. JJ must have ended up disappointed in the romance because it’s relegated to just three scenes”

No, he’s not disappointed. In fact he seemed giddy as a school boy on the dvd commentary. He actually told us they were in love, what, two or three times while he was talking. So, the writers made old JJ quite happy. You see, less really is more. Those few scenes are apparently so well executed that they have a section of the fandom in quite an uproar–including yourself. Quality vs. quantity or something like that.

652. Edgar - April 4, 2011

646

Let me guess, you were linked from here, right?

http://community.livejournal.com/kirkspock/1454975.html

I actually don’t think most of the really, really over-the-top lengthy treatises about why nu-Uhura is terribul and OOC is because of race. I think it’s because she gets in the way of the TRUE LOVE OF KIRK/SPOCK 4-EVA. But I’m sure the poll results aren’t skewed in any way~

653. gingerly - April 4, 2011

On the brewery…

I didn’t mind it, for what they had to work with. I thought it was nice to see something tangible and real, in an era of green-screens and watery/rubbery moving CGI creatures.

Tell JJ, as an 80’s kid (arrgh! dating myself. :P) that’s one thing I really miss from movies, the make-up, built sets, puppetry, matte painting et al.

That said, y’all can pick or build around a different location this go round, (and even fill in with CGI as long as it still looks real!) with a nice warp core. :)

…And don’t be afraid to disregard any perceived “stupid” suggestions from us, for fear that we won’t like it.

In fact, PLEASE DO.

Hey, if a Spock/Uhura break-up works in the context of the story or makes it better? Please, go for it. (And this is me, fan-of-them-together talking! *haha!*)

One thing I really appreciated in Trek ’09, was that the characters weren’t perfect. You weren’t afraid to make Kirk a jackass, with gobs of potential to be more than that.

Don’t forget that what makes Kirk more, is the quality of people who surround him, his friends and colleagues.

I think that if you get that last dynamic right (as well as making the challenge interesting and worthy of them) then you are home-free. :)

654. alien_underpants - April 4, 2011

647. Kavinsky

Gene roddenberry supervised (was the exec producer) for TNG and it was not till after he passed away that trek became increasingly action oriented and less cerebral, this culminated with the ‘enterprise’ show, which was canceled after 4 seasons due to terrible ratings for the above reasons. All the previous trek incarnations, which were all decidedly more philosophical, ran 7 seasons (with the exception of TOS). The deterioration of trek began when they replaced preachy philosophy with unnecessary action garbage. This film continued with this unfortunate direction. And although it was successful financially, it was a dismal failure in terms of any semblance of portraying any semblance of a meaningful message. Every other trek film had a meaning, a moral and a nucleus of purpose which subliminally preached higher morale to its audience. This film destroys that.

655. Justin - April 4, 2011

I was pretty much totally happy with Trek 2009 as it was, except for the engineering set. It was just lazy design. The bridge and the rest of the interiors were awesome. So why be lazy on engineering? Hope they fix that part in the next one. I wanna see the warp core!

656. P Technobabble - April 4, 2011

I believe the choice in using the brewery was not a matter of lazy design, it was a matter of budgetary considerations. I imagine the cost of building and equipping an engine room of the size and scope they were going for would have cost a small fortune beyond what the production companies were prepared to spend.
This has been discussed before, hasn’t it?

657. Some Dude on the Internet - April 4, 2011

@ 335 boborci

RE: Sequel Title

Alien -> Aliens

Star Trek -> Star Treks

Easy!

658. Ian Fee - April 4, 2011

Firstly, I loved ST09. I was incredibly fortunate to attend the London premiere and the buzz that night was amazing. When JJ and the cast introduced the movie, I still didn’t know what to expect. Truth be to, l was worried by what I’d seen in the trailers, thinking that we would get a good sci-fi action movie but not necessarily a Star Trek movie. By the time the end credits rolled, I was beside myself with joy. Trek was back!!
There was one character point I wanted to raise. Spock’s tragic loss in the movie came home to me recently when I lost my Mum. Grief is a strange thing. Spock’s reaction to Uhura’s offer of help in the turbolift was perfect for him. He expected everyone to do their duty well. He was going to fulfil his role and he asked others to do the same. In grief, when you have a certain role to perform and you have to set aside your own grief, you draw strength from others by knowing that they have your back and making them understand that you have to deal with this in your own way. As a priest, I was both a grieving son but also the one who was going to celebrate my mother’s funeral Mass and give the homily. As a priest, I obviously don’t have a significant other to share my loss with but I have family and friends to support me. It is in times such as this that you realise who your true friends are and just how deeply that touch your life. I hope that the events of the first movie continue to colour and influence the relationships in the next one. But please don’t lose sight of the fact that as a Vulcan, Spock will take pride in his Vulcan heritage, especially now as there are so few of them. Any relationship with Uhura should be both a comfort and a challenge to Spock. Exchanges like the one in the transporter room are not good for either character as, surely, Uhura’s place at that time was on the Bridge doing her duty as Spock asked her to. Every time someone beams down on a dangerous mission, do we see their friends and loved ones there to send them off with a hug and a kiss? No; the Enterprise crew are family and as such they know what’s expected of them, what their duty is and how best to serve the Enterprise.
Spock and Uhura’s relationship needs to be an exploration of human nature, as so much good Trek has been in the past; the need for love, the honouring of each others traditions, what opening ourselves up to love can mean. Uhura’s love of Spock needs to be challenged by his Vulcan nature and his feelings for her need to inform his emotional awareness of all his shipmates. Any good loving relationship will lead us into seeing the world around us in a different light as I feel Capt. Picard felt after ‘The Inner Light’ and his experience of the life he chose not to follow, as a husband and father.So Bob, I hope you will continue to explore Spock and Uhura’s relationship but for the right reason – not to simply bring romance into Trek but to further explore the human adventure and all that love, sacrifice, loss and companionship bring to it.
Thanks

659. Iva - April 4, 2011

“”””””464. MJ – April 3, 2011
@78 “I can’t believe only 8% voted for Kirk & crew’s rapid promotions.”

Gee, maybe SAVING THE ENTIRE UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS was a consideration in the promotions.

LOL””””””

I would be most honored if you could take time to explain to me how in the world does a lucky set of coincidences make one a qualified starship captain.

The problem here is not that he is “young”, the problem is that he is inexperienced.
Contrary to the popular belief, the academy does not provide qualifications for running a starship. It provides only the theory base, which is useful only when combined with the practical experience.
And can lead to becoming a captain only after working through the ranks and learning while on each one.
So that when you finally find yourself in the captain seat in the end, you have both the cumulative experience and the practical knowledge of working and the command track training at your disposal.

He does not have that. He just exited the academy.
“SAVING THE FEDERATION” Does not make up for the lack of it.
He needs additional training and guidance if he is to ever evolve.

660. Trek Nerd Central - April 4, 2011

To all you S/U haters: What show did *you* watch growing up? You can definitely make a case for TOS sexual tension between Spock and Uhura.

Personally, I always thought TOS suggested more of an overt K/U vibe, as Kirk and Uhura often behaved like ex-lovers. Shatner and Nichols played it that way — they seemed to have the hots for each other.

HOWEVER, Nimoy and Nichols had chemistry between them, too. They had a sassier vibe, more comic and flirty. But it’s there.

Anyway, what the heck does it matter? We’re in a new universe.

661. ce - April 4, 2011

I think it’s quite outrageous that accusations of racism are being thrown at people who disliked the U/S aspect of the movie. And as for us all being closet K/S shippers… well, I guess because I thought the events of Romeo and Juliet were a poor basis for a relationship, I secretly wanted Romeo to run off with Mercutio. It’s completely unfair to just write off genuine criticism of U/S as a slash fan’s hatred of anything heterosexual. I and a lot of people I know believe Uhura was handled poorly in this movie. She was amazing in TOS. I pretty much worship TOS!Uhura because I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t have abandoned her post in the middle of a red alert. I’m chalking this up to bad writing, to be honest, more than a jugdement on her character. It’s clear that a lot of issues simply weren’t spotted until the viewing audience pointed them out.

I also reiterate that, as a feminist, I object to Uhura becoming arm-candy instead of awesome in her own right. Why do women have to have a boyfriend to become interesting? Jesus. Her skills were barely demonstrated (unless you count her shouting them at Spock to get the position she wanted – which, one, she should have to deal with the post she’s given, regardless, and two, I can’t imagine Spock in any universe messing with someone’s career to ‘avoid the appearance of favouritism’. In fact, I can’t imagine him being so stupid as to give anyone the impression he was favouring a student in the first place).

Another thing I forgot to mention earlier: the bad Science. Oh dear lord. A supernova threatening to destroy the entire galaxy? WHAT? What is this mammoth supernova? And getting rid of it by sucking it into a blackhole – the very thing that would have occurred eventually if the supernova had been left alone. Great. What would Romulus have done without a star anyway? Slowly frozen, that’s what, bringing all life down with it. The whole idea of red matter is just completely ridiculous. When destroying Vulcan, a tiny bit was used. At the end of the movie, they blew up the whole thing, and the resulting blackhole was so small, I couldn’t believe it.

Bad Science should seriously be an option on that poll. It was the most distracting aspect of the entire movie.

662. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@602

I am OK with the Spock/Uhura relationship. It would not worry me unduly if the pair decided to take time out or not. What has bothered me are some of the inaccurate, outrageous and downright nasty comments made about this particular relationship. These comments have caused me to defend this relationship as being as legitimate as any other and I have not enjoyed seeing it tainted by some people’s crude and mindless projections. There is no evidence to suggest that Spock or Uhura have done anything wrong, that what relationship they have has interfered with their abilities as professional crewmembers of a starship. I just can’t stand this unjustified vilification.

*nods*

I hear you. Same here, but I’ve said my piece a-plenty and I think many are (sadly) proving themselves fitting my points better than I ever could.

But then, I try to remember that you can’t see people’s ages or dispositions on the internet.

They are most certainly people with major issues on both sides of this and that in of itself is worthy of a sociology dissertation.

I think it will definitely be interesting to see how (or even if) history views this and the myriad of extreme reactions, overshadowing even Vulcan blowing up(!), in many instances, in say, thirty years.

I know many didn’t predict the lasting impact Uhura’s just being there in the first series’ run would have on society.

663. Edgar - April 4, 2011

660

Because, when it comes to most of the people who hate the extremely mild Spock/Uhura pairing the most vehemently, they only really like Star Trek for the Kirk-Spock relationship — whether it’s the “friendship” as they claim (this can be heard among men and women), or whether they slash them in a sexual/romantic context (heard among mostly women). They claim that this is what Star Trek is “really about” (sometimes adding McCoy in there) and that everything else is “ruining what TOS really meant.” Basically, they don’t like that Spock has a character important to him that isn’t Kirk (or McCoy, to some extent), and that Uhura is no longer in the “lesser tier” of secondary characters that included Sulu, Chekov, and Scotty.

What they don’t seem to realize is that (1) the stories in TOS may have been told really well within the Kirk/Spock (and Kirk/Spock/McCoy) dynamic, but that DEFINITELY wasn’t what TOS was “really about.” It was about all different kinds of people and aliens working together in different ways toward a common, optimistic goal, and if the show had taken place later than the 60’s and had a better budget, there would have indeed been a focus on more than just those two characters, like in TNG and later series. Also, (2) ST Reboot was not only a different universe with different dynamics, it was very clearly an ENSEMBLE movie, which I loved. The friendship between Kirk and Spock was still the focal point of the story, but all of the different characters got to have moments of characterization and their own relationships that went beyond just Kirk/Spock with McCoy grumbling occasionally.

The haters are angry that what they claim to be the “sacred truth” of TOS is being stomped upon. But really, they’re so closed-minded and unable to see the potential of change, that it’s clear *they’re* the ones who have no idea what Star Trek was really about.

664. Trek Lady - April 4, 2011

Odd. I tired to vote “Spock Uhura romance” but it won’t accept my vote. Maybe I should chalk it up to some conspriacy by the pro-S/U shippers, since it has been suggested the high percentage vote against S/U represents some form of “cheating” taking place due to unsavory practices by the anti S/U factions…LOL!

I wish I could have chosen more than one nitpick…as “rapid promotions” and “destruction of Vulcan” were running a close second. I actually don’t have that much of a problem with the destruction of Vulcan as I do with the methodology of it. To me, it was obviously a contrivance to move the plot forward, and as a result did not have the emotional intensity it should have had. The destruction of Vulcan, done with proper set up, impact and follow through, could have resulted in an entire movie in itself! I can only hope that the next film will at least focus to some extent upon the results of this catastrophe.

665. Casey4147 - April 4, 2011

A lot of the little issues with STAR TREK (2009) are explained by knowing some of the backstory. A few plot holes? Writers Strike, their hands were tied. Why do some sets look the way they do? (Communications Suite, Engineering) Because they were filmed on a brewery. I’m going to have to look up the concept art on my blu-ray, didn’t find any on a Google search, but I’d be interested in seeing what Paramount wouldn’t pay for.

Some of the Enterprise’s lines don’t agree with me – I think the neck goes too far back on the secondary hull, I think the curved nacelle pylons make the nacelles too close together and looks completely WRONG in a head-on shot. My absolute favorite design is TMP’s Enterprise. Loved everything, the hanger desk/cargo area, docking ports, bridge, engineering, everything. A lot of thought went into the designs and they look very practical and real-world. Sorry, the design in 2009 doesn’t hold a candle, but other designs have come and gone and I’ve appreciated them for what they were. Final judgement comes when I see more of it. But, please, do SOMETHING about Engineering. Please. You have an “out” – you ejected the warp core, so you get a chance to redesign and blame it on Starfleet having run out of spares.

Kirk isn’t too young to be Captain, he’s too inexperienced. Keep Pike around and make him a presence in the next movie, not just someone issuing orders on a viewscreen but a parole officer who’s stationed on the Enterprise to watch over the Starfleet’s newest, fastest-promoted Captain. I like the idea a lot of the Enterprise running into someone who doesn’t take him seriously and pays for it.

There’s a lot of established history that needs to be addressed. There’s a Doomsday Machine out there, and a giant Amoeba and a Guardian of Forever and a Gary Seven (hey, HE could underestimate Kirk real well, couldn’t he?), and a lot of other things. I’d like to have something at least acknowledged in passing in the next movie. Did Commodore Decker get his ship blowed up over Vulcan?

Regardless, looking forward to it. Keep it coming.

666. sandyhill - April 4, 2011

@651

As far as I am concerned JJ’s comments ain’t worth a hill of beans seeing as in his movie a frankly boring villain hangs around in space for 25 years to get his revenge with no credible explanation for this given. Then despite the fact that his ship is more technologically advanced than the Enterprise and despite the fact that Kirk has spent valuable hours running around an ice planet, chatting with Spock Prime, walking miles to an outpost, chatting some more, beaming back onto the ship, getting strangled by Spock and having a bit more chat, the slower Enterprise still manages to reach Earth at the same tim as Nero. Then a cadet who has no experience of being out in space or even on a starship is given command of the Enterprise simply because he managed to get lucky one time. I’m not even going talk about the blowing up of Vulcan which totally over the top and will probably never be alluded to again in subsequent movies, or the fact that in this movie there was nothing in the way of theme, or subtext and that the romance JJ claims to love is shoved out of the way at the end in favour of shipping a defining relationship. Comprehend the meaning of the word defining? It means Uhura in second place. I’m just going to end by saying that JJ has made secret of the fact that he is a Stars Wars fan and that he wanted this movie to be more like that. Well as this movie put me in mind of the Phantom Menace I would say he got his wish.

667. ce - April 4, 2011

663 – I’m assuming you’re addressing your comment to me, not 660, as they seem to be in agreement with you. If I’m wrong, my apologies!

Personally, I’m completely up for best friends U/S. I think it’s healthy for Spock to have personal relationships that have nothing to do with Kirk and McCoy. I’d be MORE up for an actual U/S relationship if it was just handled correctly. Uhura seemed like she was using her relationship with Spock to fuel her own ambition, Spock was all ready to run off to Vulcan and leave Uhura behind – until Spock!Prime mentioned a friendship with Kirk and then he was gung-ho for getting back on the Enterprise. I mean, what? I’m not saying that means K/S are clearly the epic romance of the whole thing, but if Spock is more willing to stay for the chance at a great friendship than an already budding romance with a beautiful and intelligent woman, then he really needs to stop leading her on. I don’t know – once again, I’m putting it up to bad writing. I agree that in TOS Spock and Uhura had some flirty moments, and it would have been interesting to take that further. But the dynamic in this movie was completely different. Less, ‘Tell me I’m pretty, Spock’ and more ‘Put me on the Enterprise, goddamn you!’

Largely, I just don’t want to see romance in Star Trek. If I wanted that, I could just go and watch The Notebook (which I haven’t done, for a reason). In TOS, none of them really had any long-lasting relationships, or at least not any that were shown, because it would have distracted from the main points of the show.

If I were to endorse romance, I’d choose Uhura/Scotty. I know it’s a new universe, but damn they were sweet in the old movies.

668. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - April 4, 2011

this is like fox news. they report we decide :)

669. Edgar - April 4, 2011

667

// If I were to endorse romance, I’d choose Uhura/Scotty. I know it’s a new universe, but damn they were sweet in the old movies. //

Yeah. I’ve sure never heard that from K/S shippers before. It’s super-sweet in that it gets her away from Spock and back in the background, amirite?

You guys are so freaking transparent, and worse, you’re spreading. Stay on livejournal please and stop embarrassing slashers everywhere with your delusions.

670. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 4, 2011

Nichelle Nichols talking about Uhura/Spock:

“What did you make of the Uhura-Spock relationship in the movie?

Nichols: The only way I could explain it was that she was a recruit and this was her first trip out. It was the five-mission where no man or woman had gone before. So J.J. had the right, as the director of the prequel, to show the characters as young people. NASA recruits train for a year, sometimes two, before they go out on their first mission. As young people, they’re excited and they’re new and they’re going to go on this mission, and there’s romance and so forth that’s going to go on. Kirk was hitting on her a couple of times and he was hitting on everybody else because he was cute – and knew it. She shined him off, but Spock fascinated her, her serious side. Now, this is me making my story on what happened, but he saw in her his human side and she touched a side of him that they were supposedly discreet about.

Now, go back to my participation in Star Trek as Uhura and Leonard (Nimoy) as Spock. There was always a connection between Uhura and Spock. It was the early 60’s, so you couldn’t do what you can do now, but if you will remember, Uhura related to Spock. When she saw the captain lost in space out there in her mirror, it was Spock who consoled her when she went screaming out of her room. When Spock needed an expert to help save the ship, you remember that Uhura put something together and related back to him the famous words, “I don’t know if I can do this. I’m afraid.” And Uhura was the only one who could do a spoof on Spock. Remember the song (in “Charlie X”)? Those were the hints, as far as I’m concerned.”

http://www.startrek.com/article/nichelle-nichols-answers-fan-questions

671. primetime - April 4, 2011

664. Trek Lady – April 4, 2011

“Odd. I tired to vote “Spock Uhura romance” but it won’t accept my vote. Maybe I should chalk it up to some conspriacy by the pro-S/U shippers, since it has been suggested the high percentage vote against S/U represents some form of “cheating” taking place”

Or maybe its been locked to prevent more ding-a-lings from skewing the vote. The link to that crazy Spock/Kirk slash site is no illusion.

672. Trek Nerd Central - April 4, 2011

663 – I agree. And don’t folks understand that these are fictional characters?? Granted, they’re fictional characters who feel entirely real to everyone who posts here, me included. But it’s not worth getting all nas-tay.

667 – Funny, I thought the Uhura/Scotty romance was the single worst element in Star Trek V. It was underdrawn, overacted and badly handled.

But as a rule, both TOS and the Trek franchise as a whole has had an awful lot of romance over the years — starting with Kirk’s horndog womanizing. I always thought it was part of the fun, one of many elements that make Trek Trek.

673. ce - April 4, 2011

669 – Excuse me? I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with slash, or femmeslash or het or orgies or whatever sort of fanfiction you want to read, but personally, I’m into books.

So you have to be a slash fan to think Uhura/Scotty was a good idea? Oh my god. This is hysterical. Tell that to the very straight male members of my family who have never even HEARD of fanfiction or slash but liked the idea of Scotty getting with Uhura.

As for embarrassing slashers with my delusions? What are you even referring to? First of all, I’m a slasher. Then I’m embarrassing slashers with my delusions of what exactly? Slash?

You’re a joke, my friend.

674. primetime - April 4, 2011

669. Edgar – April 4, 2011

“Yeah. I’ve sure never heard that from K/S shippers before. It’s super-sweet in that it gets her away from Spock and back in the background, amirite?

You guys are so freaking transparent, and worse, you’re spreading. Stay on livejournal please and stop embarrassing slashers everywhere with your delusions.”

Exactly! Talk about being transparent.

675. Trek Nerd Central - April 4, 2011

670. Exactly. Thanks for posting.

676. layla - April 4, 2011

“Link to crazy Spock/Kirk slash site?”

You mean no crazy Spock/Uhura het comms were alerted to the existence of this poll?

677. dmb1138 - April 4, 2011

@612.
Amen to your comments on the poetic nature of Kirk. We didn’t see much of that. Not to say it wasn’t there, as we didn’t always see that side of the character in every episode of TOS. But I’d like to see a little more of that side of Kirk in this one, the well-read, well-spoken explorer, someone hungry to see and learn more, to seek out new life. etc etc. Understandably we didn’t get to see much of that in ST09 as the focus was on the particular situation at hand and getting everyone together on the ship, but hopefully there will a bit more time to see that side of things.
Not that I want to see action and adventure taking the backseat to a lot of talking heads, but there’s always been a balance of both in the best Trek that I’d like to see more of in the sequel.

And honestly, as far as suggestions for the sequel and the poll here, my only hopes are that we see a Spock under more control, I understand that he was ‘emotionally compromised’ for a good chunk of the movie, but he seemed overall too angry and snippy with just about everyone. I enjoyed his scenes interacting with the bridge crew regarding Nero, and I liked his exchanges with McCoy, they made me feel like I was watching Kelley and Nimoy. I loved the little bit at the end when Spock came aboard to officially join the crew (which I’m sure Kirk knew was coming, he seemed completely unsurprised when Spock showed up). THAT was Spock. Dialing back the intensity and inner turmoil will go a long way with the character.
Also, for Scotty, look to Wrath of Khan, as an example, for a great balance of light and very heavy moments. Yes, Scotty could be the comic relief, but he could also be grave and intense when necessary, I’d like to see both sides of our beloved engineer. A bit more gravitas there, please!
Other than that, I loved ST09 and am very excited for the sequel.

678. Edgar - April 4, 2011

// First of all, I’m a slasher. //

NO REALLY? lol. That’s the point I’m making. I’m a slasher, too. Slash is everywhere, it’s fun, but Kirk/Spock fans are the only ones obsessed and deluded enough to think that not only is their pairing canon, but that the icky heterosexual pairing is damaging and WRONG and go out of their way to try to get rid of it so that they can keep dreaming of Kirk and Spock dry-humping each other in the turbolifts. They also INEVITABLY pair Uhura and Scotty together, squealing over how cute it was in the horror of a movie that was The Final Frontier and clamoring for it in the sequel, usually in the same breath of faux-complaint about Uhura being “only a love interest.” (I guess it only counts as demeaning if she’s locking lips with Spock?)

A more entitled, deluded, embarrassing group of fans I have never known in my lifetime of being a Trekkie, and yes, it’s crazies like you who give slashers a bad name.

679. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@667

If I were to endorse romance, I’d choose Uhura/Scotty.

You just said you don’t like romance.

So, why is Uhura/Scotty okay with you?

Why specifically that pairing?

Why makes Uhura good enough for Scotty, but not for Spock?

680. MC1 Doug - April 4, 2011

I voted for the “Death of Vulcan,” but I would have added the death of Amanda too. Sacrilege!

681. Damian - April 4, 2011

In a lot of ways, reasonable critiques of the movie probably help Bob Orci and the writing team the most. Gushing praise or this movie sucked critiques don’t help a whole lot. My guess judging from some of Orci’s comments is they want to hear from people who otherwise liked the film but had some issues (like Anthony has posted) that can be adjusted in a sequel to make it better. One of the results of that has been that he has made a note to mention to Abrams that fans think the engineering section could use a facelift.

Star Trek (2009) can’t be changed, it is what it is. By and large I thought it was a great film. There were some things I have noted that can use improvement (set design and excessive lens flares), but these are not enough to change my opinion of the film. If you have to talk about improvements to mundane things like production, that probably means you have a good story.

The only other issues I had were

rapid fire promotion–the fact that most of the senior bridge crew were cadets just days before. I understand why it was done (to get the crew together), but it did require extensive suspension of belief.

set design–my issue there has more to do with staying consistent with how certain locations looked in Star Trek before. Starfleet headquarters had a look established really since TMP, I was a little bothered that it looked completely different in the new movie.

Those were my main 2 issues. But I could go through all 11 films and note things that could have been done better, in my humble opinion of course. This is not a slam on the new movie. It was probably 85% to 90% there. So all in all a pretty good movie.

682. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 4, 2011

I think what bothers “some people” here about Uhura in Star Trek 2009… is that she be shown as an independent girl, confident… able to go after what she wants including Mr. Spock… she could not be shown as Uhura of TOS and women who appeared in TOS … women today are different and in the future will probably be even more different…

I hope Uhura become increasingly competent in the ” Enterprise “… more confident… regardless of being in a relationship with Spock or not… moreover I think like any smart girl, he will realize that a long relationship with Mr. Spock… would be impossible!

:-) :-)

683. ce - April 4, 2011

678 – I don’t think you got my meaning there. I am NOT a slash fan. I know a few, but personally, I’m not into fanfiction or fanart. I was referencing your accusation.

I just find it hilarious that you’re still insisting I am one. That thinking Uhura/Scotty is okay is irrefutable proof that I go to bed thinking about Kirk and Spock’s epic love, dream about it, and then read about it online.

I’ve said, I don’t like romance in Star Trek. Or anywhere. I am not a romance fan. However, I realise that some fans like it and personally, based on past watchings of the movie (which were admittedly in days where I was less critical) it didn’t bother me overtly.

I’d be just as bothered if Kirk and Spock were canoodling all over the ship. I don’t want it interrupting my movie-watching experience, thanks very much.

684. Chadwick Adams - April 4, 2011

390. Miles R. Seppelt – April 3, 2011
Biggest nitpicks:

2) Bridge looked like an Apple Computer store
3) USS Enterprise (and each of its components) looked “front heavy”

A water treatment plant is one thing, but what it wrong with an apple store? They are nice, clean, and minimalist, very stylish, those are all good points. The bridge was fine.

The Enterprise front heavy, does that really matter in the vacuum of space in a warp bubble? No. I love how it looks front heavy, the huge dish, as well as these huge nacells which are much tighter. They were successful in making it look like a hot rod. Who doesn’t like a hot rod?

The Enterprise was always too proportionate. My favorite ship was always the refit from the movies. The new Enterprise took so much from the refit version I loved it.

685. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@683

I have yet to get an answer to this, so I’ll ask you too.

What makes Uhura good enough for Scotty but not for Spock?

686. Trek Lady - April 4, 2011

674

Oh for Pete’s sake. Just because you don’t agree with my vote, does not mean it is “skewing” anything. It is MY vote and I am entitled to it!

Based upon comments here, it appears that if you vote against S/U you are:

1. racist
2. a slasher
3. a ding-a-ling
4. an elitist
5. all of the above

And apparently your vote shouldn’t count because it is obviously made for illegitimate reasons.

It really does not matter WHY people vote against the Spock/Uhura romance. It is their right to vote as they choose. Whatever their reasons for not liking the romance (many of which do NOT fit into the above categories despite attempts to suggest otherwise), they didn’t like it! And the poll is posted to find out WHAT people didn’t like! Kapeesh?

Going around making accusations about “skewing” the polls just because you don’t like the outcome is a bit much. Or are the anti-brewery folks somehow “skewing” the results too?

I notice that no one seems to be bashing the folks that vote for *other* nitpicks on this site? Why is it that the “Spock Uhura romance” nitpick voters get singled out and personally attacked for their opinions?

687. Edgar - April 4, 2011

683

I think it’s telling that you claim to dislike romance, but you’re fine with Uhura and Scotty together. As long as it doesn’t mess with the sacred character dynamics of TOS, you’re a-okay with canoodling, I guess.

But whatever. Your weird logic, and the fact that this has been linked from at least three different Kirk/Spock comms, and all the long, bizarre, vitriol-filled posts from people who have never posted here before, like #507 here…

// I’m just stating facts. Spock/Uhura is NOT canon and it will NEVER BE canon. The Kirk/Spock fans will NOT stop pairing Kirk and Spock together because, guess what? Kirk/Spock IS canon. Proof? Well, there is a wonderful lady on YouTube named Brittney who lays out all the proof for you. //

I’m sure it’s all just a coincidence.

Or, at the very least, you can’t fault me for adding two and two together.

688. cazza - April 4, 2011

@670

Over the years I have been to countless Star Trek and sci fi conventions and listened to countless actors and producers, line producers, writers and even script girls take credit for the best bits of dialogue of the best scenes and episodes as well as give the impression that they were the only ones who had the full story behind this character or that character or this episode or that episode. Or that they would have been given a bigger role or a spin off series or become a love interest if not for that person or that producer who stood in the way. It’s impossible to know who is telling the truth and who is simply using such stories to make themselves seem more important than they were. I have read in numerous places that the powers that be thought about putting Spock and Uhura together for about 30 seconds because, while she could not be seen to be involved with a white character, maybe it would be all right with the half human, pointy eared, green blooded alien guy. The idea was never acted on because it was ultimately decided it would be better for the main characters to be free to hook up with whatever random alien woman happened to catch their fancy that week.
As far as I’m concerned hooking up a black character with an alien in order to appease racists is in itself pretty damned racist and it’s astonishing to me that years later Nichelle would trot this out as if it was something to be proud of and worse make out that it is actually exists in the episodes. In ‘The Conscience of the King’ Uhura sings to Kevin Riley does that mean they had a connection? But hey conventions are lucrative and you’ve got to have something to talk about beyond continually bitching that William Shatner called you a ‘glorified extra’ and was single handedly responsible for you having nothing more to do than hail all frequencies.

689. Chadwick Adams - April 4, 2011

471. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire – April 3, 2011
Top 5 possible names for the new Trek Movie.
1. Star Trek. Enterprise
2. Star Trek. Out there.
3. Star Trek. Vulcans.
4. Star Trek To the last.
5. Star Trek. The new Journey.

….as voted by who…you? Lmao sorry to be so harsh but those are terrible titles, not very creative. But ill give you a smiley face sticker for effort

690. ce - April 4, 2011

687 – I would PREFER it to U/S, yes. I haven’t denied that. I thought U/S was poorly handled. If it had been treated properly, maybe we wouldn’t be having this conversation today. The bottom line is, I don’t want to see Spock or Uhura making out with ANYONE in lifts and on transporter pads. Deal.

I don’t subscribe to any K/S comms. I’m aware of them but I don’t go on them and I most certainly don’t trawl through them just to attack U/S. You ignored all my other criticisms of the movie and pinned me as a bitter slash fan instead of someone who enjoys Trek but didn’t like a whole range of things about the new movie. I repeat: the terrible Science, the inaccurate engineering deck, the coincidental meetings, the convenient and rather magical warp equation, the myriad of lens flares. I’m quite capable of being a discerning movie-watcher, thanks. Disliking U/S in this movie has NOTHING to do with preferring K/S.

I’ve never denied that U/S was canon. I am not the writer of that comment. U/S IS canon, as it happened. That is the definition of canon. I really object to your insinuations. I’m not ridiculous enough to pretend that it didn’t happen. At most U/S was an irritation compared with the shitty Science, but after all this bickering, I think I’m disliking it more and more.

You’ve added two and two together and made five. But since you obviously know my life better than I do, I defer to your opinions about MY opinions on slash. And that was sarcasm, in case you missed it again.

691. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@689

I actually like #1 and #5.

Especially number five, as that is exactly what this is. Maybe something in the same vein or spirit would good, as well.

I hope Bob is still reading. It really is the best naming suggestion I’ve seen so far!

692. Chadwick Adams - April 4, 2011

472. Lindsay K
485. dmduncan

With regards to the Uhura and Spock turbolift scene, ill agree, I felt it was too much even for the situation. If I just lost my home planet the last thing I want is to be making out. A hug, rubbing my back, some kind consoling words is what people do. But just to fall for someone because they lost their planet, just felt so odd, add sexuality just because. We all like sex cant deny this, but for pete sake, she was ready to give herself to Spock, that not sweet, thats a whore.

693. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@692

A hug, rubbing my back, some kind consoling words is what people do.

They (not just her) did everything that you suggest.

….So, the dry closed-mouth kiss with her boyfriend was what put you over the edge enough to consider her to be not only solely at fault, but a whore?

*smh*

694. Iva - April 4, 2011

Hm, at frist it was “everybody liked S/U in the abrams movie, shut up!!!1!!!1one!!!11″,

But the poll showed it is a mess.

Then it evolved into “all women liked S/U, if you remove it no one will want to watch star trek!!!!!!111! ! 1″ but it turned out not to be true either.

Now it is “all who are against it are racist!!!!!1111!111!” or
“all who are against it are misogynistic!!!1!!!1111″ or
“or who are against it______ ” (feel free to fill in the blanks)

It is a fascinating experience, being on this board.

695. Phil - April 4, 2011

I don’t know, script by committee is starting to look like a danger sign to me…

696. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@694

Of all of your hateful, hypocritical, hyperbolic, mostly incoherent posts, finally here is something that is irrefutably true:

It is a fascinating experience, being on this board.

Indeed. :)

697. Trek Lady - April 4, 2011

Edgar:

Oh, and one more comment about those “entitled, deluded, embarrassing group of fans” known as slashers. I have been in fandom a loooooong time, and as someone who reads fanfic a lot (slash, gen and het – basically anything well written) I have known many a slasher. Over the years I have watched those “entitled, deluded, embarrassing group of fans” you so blithely malign raise money for cancer treatments for fellow fans, help refurbish a house after someone had a stroke and needed the house to be handicap accessible, raise money for a variety of good causes, buy tickets for fans in poverty so they could attend a convention, and help someone avoid foreclosure by helping pay a mortgage note. I am sure there are dozens of other examples of good deeds of which I am unaware. Frankly, I have always found slash fans to be an open, accepting, giving group of people…. there are exceptions, of course, but I’ll take their general level of acceptance over your bitterness any day.

698. ce - April 4, 2011

692 – A whore is someone who pays for sex. Uhura is NOT a whore. And the very word ‘whore’ is misogynistic as hell anyway, and it’s wrong to use it in any context. Smh.

699. primetime - April 4, 2011

694. Iva – April 4, 2011

“But the poll showed it is a mess.”

No, the poll shows that you Kirk/Spock slashers have come out in force and tainted the outcome. That’s all.

700. reb - April 4, 2011

The difference #676 is no has been given one GOOD reason for why JJ and Bob shouldn’t continue the Uhura/Spock romance.

Uhura was not “arm candy”. She was shown able to take care of herself, doing her job and being excellent at it. I’m sure we will see more of that in the future. I’d like to see her lead a “Landing Party” or “Away Team” whatever and for a good reason.

But that they actually had a romance. Whoa boy! And the reaction is not for any GOOD reason. They fall mainly into the following categories:

*Mainly that it didn’t happen in previous films/ shows with the TOS cast. In short it doesn’t conform to what went before. I bet there is plenty of fan fiction where S/U happens. And as said before by Nichele it was implied.

*That it wouldn’t happen because of code of military conduct…Since on the Kelvin G. Kirk has his wife aboard–where the heck did they meet do you wonder. And even if they came aboard married that demonstrates its not TOS. The world Universe has been changed and is more like ST:NG.

*That somehow its morally “wrong” . See above.

*That it makes Uhura only “arm candy.” How? Did we see the same movie?

The poll is skewed because it doesn’t say how many people like the Uhura/Spock romance. Nor is the poll scientific because you can vote as many times as you want…maybe not from the same computer. But from other devices.

If Paramount or JJ is actually worried about this, they should hire a reputable pollster like Gallup to do it for them.

I, for one would love to see the break down by gender and age. I think it would be revealing.

For some, who’s first Trek movie this would be I’m sure would be different from those who’s first Trek was TOS.

And I’m actually not advocating necessarily only for an S/U ship.

If Abrams wanted to actually go with K/S, I’d be for that as well.

But I want it OUT IN THE OPEN! Where it can be as clearly seen as is S/U. None of this BS of fans implying what was never there. If it is there SHOW IT! The time has come.

That people object to any romance where never put off by Kirk’s one planet stands. But any real emotion and feeling as shown in S/U, people have a tantrum.

“Its not my TOS!” Well, too bad. It isn’t.

To be fair, TOS Kirk did fall in love with any number of females and still many fans think K/S is some kind of dogma, leaves me speechless at all the projection and lack of honesty.

701. reb - April 4, 2011

Which Ghetto are you referring to Iva? Where do they behave “badly” and “that way”? I don’t think anyone would refer to the Jersey Shore as a “ghetto”.

702. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 4, 2011

OMG! … Now, someone called Uhura a whore… I do not understand it … in which ” conservative cave “some people are hiding?… this can only be provocation!… so I’m outta of here! … of this post … for me is enough!

:-( :-(

703. Saspearia - April 4, 2011

I am still having nightmares about Vulcan being destroyed. I keep seeing it over and over. I know why you did it and its very entertaining. But if it could all be nicely fixed at the end like the TNG episode Tapestry…that would be great!

704. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@700

To be fair, TOS Kirk did fall in love with any number of females and still many fans think K/S is some kind of dogma, leaves me speechless at all the projection and lack of honesty.

And see, this is what I don’t get. Even Spock had his flings in TOS, but I guess hindsight, especially in something that has had such a lasting cultural impact is rose-colored.

I do wonder what some fans would have said about any number of guest “loves” on TOS had the internet existed then? I’m guessing similar things. :)

I think the benefit (and detriment) of an easy forum to speak brings out all of the weird extremes.

I actually want some subtext with Kirk and Spock. That’s a big part of Trek and should continue to be, but I think any fan who claims that this or other character dynamic (The Triad) is threatened, be they romantic or otherwise by Spock/Uhura, isn’t thinking realistically.

Fans who claim Uhura didn’t have enough to do and blast the romance in the same breath contradict themselves, because they wish to exchange one thing she got to do (heh-heh), for another, instead of just doing both…which would technically be the most to do.

…Right?

And any fan who nitpicks or micromanages what is or isn’t acceptable romantic contact between those two, to the extreme that I continue to see on this board (and I have honestly never see anything like this for any romance in the history of TV and film) really needs to honestly step back and ask themselves why this romance in particular garners that reaction in them…

…This especially, if other romances (i.e. Uhura/Scotty) are acceptable in exchange for this, to them.

705. TBonz - April 4, 2011

BTW – the Uhura-Spock romance? This old-school TOS fan thought that was an extremely clever nod to the subtle flirtation (Charlie X) etc. between the two in the original series.

706. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 4, 2011

#689. The top 5 was the opinion of the Empire. Be very carefull what you say.
#691. I think #5 would be a good title. For that you get Immunity from the Agoniser Booth.

707. Desstruxion - April 4, 2011

@ 704
Maybe Vulcan was only pulled a few seconds forward in time or deposited into another reality. Like a Doctor Who plot device.

708. Edgar - April 4, 2011

697

Madam, did you miss the part where I MYSELF am a slasher? I actually slash Kirk/Spock, but I’m not insane enough to think it’s canon.

The “normal,” sane slasher, and the subset of Kirk/Spock slashers that have come over here en masse trying to get Spock/Uhura written out of the movie and who have and said appalling things about Uhura being a whore and whatnot, are two entirely different species. I for one am thoroughly tired of the latter and I’m embarrassed on behalf of them for showing their dirty underwear in public like this.

709. Trek Nerd Central - April 4, 2011

689

Hey, since it’s due for release in 2012, how about this one:

“Star Trek: Mayan Apocalypse”

Think of the possibilities! At least it would get the engine room out of the brewery (and into a ziggurat)

710. Prmo - April 4, 2011

i want more exploration as start trek is meant for exploration more scientific concepts explored

711. Dr. Image - April 4, 2011

Lesson learned: “Real” locations can backfire- BADLY!
(Engineering can be done primarily greenscreen CGI with some “real” foreground elements.)
If you’re going to keep the hideous, badly designed phasers, at least paint them gray/charcoal gray as depicted in The Art Of The Film. (And phaser BEAMS- BLUE ones- not “squirts.”) Matt Jefferies phaser design remains a masterpiece of engineering…
Ship scale? Too damn big, but it’s a done deal…
BRING BACK PIKE. At least for a scene or two.
INTERACTION between The Big Three.
And… KLINGONS. (Preferably Kor.)

712. Mazzer - April 4, 2011

Looking at the results of the poll, I wouldn’t want the writers to think that trivia such as the brewery set was all that was wrong. (As far as trivial bits go, I hated Scotty’s pet creature more than anything.)

But I still think that the writers shouldn’t listen TOO much to fan demands, because you end up compromising too much, and bending your story trying to please everyone. Hence we got this convoluted “altered timeline” angle, plus an original Spock who just didn’t belong there (sorry Mr Nimoy, I love ya, but I cringed at the scenes in this movie.)

Now that the reboot is established, I’d love to see a serious science fiction story explored by the Enterprise characters, but I’m guessing we’ll get a second action film pitched towards teens again, with a campy villian at the center.

713. Paige - April 4, 2011

#699: for the love of… for the last time (why is it that I must repeat myself so many times for this to sink in amongst the S/U shippers?) I am not a K/S shipper and yet I voted against seeing more Spock/Uhura romance in the next film. Not everyone fits into your tidy little boxes.

STOP TRYING TO PUT ALL WHO OPPOSE YOU INTO CATEGORIES! It’s unbecoming. Really. And the funny thing? I’ve seen it said, here, many times, by S/U fans, that those who oppose it need to be more tolerant, yet you lot seem to, in fact, be the most intolerant bunch of people I’ve ever come across. You can’t stomach any opinion that differs from your own. Those who voiced concerned with the S/U romance in ST11 are branded, discarded and belittled by you.

The whole point of the poll was to ask what people felt was wrong with ST11 and what they would do to improve ST12. The Spock/Uhura romance was an option to chose, and people chose it. Those that did are being attacked for doing so. It’s disturbing on so many levels.

So much for the freedom of individual thought and preferences.

It’s bullying, plain and simple. And I wont stand for it. I will continue to call you out for your obnoxious behavior. And I wont be bullied or coerced into changing my opinion.

When I came here and first cast my vote, I was a bit naive to how militant shippers can get. Now that I’ve seen you lot in action? I’m even more soured to S/U than I was prior to coming here. You lot have completely ruined any chance I might have had in the future of warming up to it by being so…. ugh! Before I didn’t want to see more of it because I feared it would get in the way of the legendary Kirk and Spock and McCoy friendship forming. Now I have a second reason for not wanting to see it… it’s shippers adopt disturbing behavior, fail to see that in themselves, and accuse others of the very behavior they, themselves are displaying.

714. Dr. Image - April 4, 2011

Oh- and get RID of the barcode scanners!!! AND the big plate-glass readouts. AND darken down the bridge!!!

715. Mazzer - April 4, 2011

By the way, Bob Orci, Fringe rules! Best show on network TV.

716. Shenanigans - April 4, 2011

I think the lens flares / shakeycam issues just about ruined the movie for me. Sooooo overdone!

717. falcon - April 4, 2011

Geez, 716 comments!

The poll was, obviously, designed to pick the biggest nitpick, but there were several with the 09 film that stood out for me, including the engineering brewery, the destruction of Vulcan, and the rapid promotion of the crew. If it was me, I’d address the rapid promotions by making them “provisional” or “probational,” meaning if there’s one slip-up they get busted back to cadet. (I’m looking at you, Jim Kirk.) In fact, the only real cadets in the movie that wound up as regular crew were Uhura, McCoy, Kirk, and security officer “Cupcake.” (Gotta give him a name.) I’m sure there were others, because the scene in Hangar 1 had lots of cadets in it, but those are the big four. Scotty was in engineering Purgatory, Spock was already a commander, and Sulu and Chekov were apparently already established crew aboard the Enterprise (and if it was the ship’s maiden voyage, why were they suddenly established? Shakedown cruises? Lots of questions here…). This could also add some drama to the plot by giving Kirk & Co.TM another reason to successfully complete their mission.

And the Spock/Uhura thing just didn’t seem realistic to me. Sure, they were “an item” in the Academy (and wouldn’t that be illegal? Fraternization with a subordinate/student, and all that?), but working every day in close quarters might put a strain on things (and in my opinion should bust it up). Subplot B, if you will. And besides, Spock was thinking about completing Kohlinar before he applied to the Vulcan Science Academy, so this might be a good time for him to revisit it.

I’m sure that all the fans’ ideas will be put into a blender and out will pour a great Trek movie (not just good, but great). But I hope it doesn’t all get pureed into a gray, tasteless mess, either. Bob Orci, take what you will from the fans, but in the end it’s your (and Damon’s, and Alex’s) story.

718. Edgar - April 4, 2011

713

I don’t doubt that there are people who dislike the Spock/Uhura pairing and have no ulterior motive. I know them among my family and my friends. I’m fine with that; different strokes for different folks, and I’m not a particularly big fan of the relationship myself.

I’m pointing out that a link to this poll was posted at several online communities for Kirk/Spock, with an exhortation to the members there to come over and vote for the Spock/Uhura option in hopes that Bob Orci would write it out of the movie. (I guess none of them have seemed to pick up on Mr. Orci’s opinion of the romance yet…) Also, and accordingly, many of the comments here ARE from Kirk/Spock shippers who make little to no effort to hide why they’re voting as they are, along with the self-professed Kirk/Spock shippers who are always hanging out here (Iva, for example) who are always super-eager to point out what an unprofessional harlot Uhura was. I mean, have you read some of the pages-long treatises here picking her to pieces?

Believe it or not, I totally respect your opinion and I agree with you that people can dislike the romance as a matter of taste or whatever without being a slasher or what have you. But the facts above are facts, and if you think they don’t. contribute to the very odd results of this poll… well. And it’s sad and disappointing that the debate has been soured this way, but I myself followed a link here from a Kirk/Spock comm telling me to “make STXII right.”

Not everyone here who dislikes Spock/Uhura has this motive. But a whole lot do.

719. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@717

but working every day in close quarters might put a strain on things (and in my opinion should bust it up).

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/17500000/Riker-Troi-star-trek-couples-17532269-600-760.jpg

Just saying…

720. Mousling - April 4, 2011

I liked the movie, plain and simple. I don’t have any major gripes with it, I thought that Bob and fellow writers did a great job and have started to push the envelope and maybe shook some of us out of our comfort zone a bit, but that’s ok, that’s life and it shouldn’t be stagnant. I even liked the lens flare, though my poor eyeballs towards the end of the movie weren’t too happy.

I loved Spock/Uhura. I thought how it was handled was fine, and I raise my eyebrows at some of the comments, especially those regarding the turbolift scene. I’ve worked at hospice for a number of years now and I went and saw this movie with friends (also co-workers at hospice) and none of us had issues with Uhura ‘comforting’ Spock, in fact what was funny to me is a friend who has been a bereavement counselor for years (and is not a Star Trek fan and was dragged to see the movie, but she enjoyed it and thought the litte romantic touches were sweet) said afterwards that in light of the circumstances all parties were ‘grieving appropriately.’ And also in my own life having just lost my Dad a few weeks ago, my boyfriend comforted me by hugging me and yes, he kissed me as a sign of comfort. So I know just in my own circle of friends that there plenty of people who didn’t mind the little bit of romance that was in the movie and certainly didn’t mind it being between Spock and Uhura. To friends who aren’t Star Trek fans (and to those who are) it brought connectedness and an element they could relate to, it brought what happens in real life in the form of friendships and relationships into a sci-fi movie, and I’m ok with that. As a friend of mine who is an avid trekster noted that for a film that is 2 hours and 7 minutes long, Spock/Uhura are only shown for 2 minutes and 14 seconds of the entire film, doesn’t really seem like much to me in the overall scheme. And at the end of the day there are a lot of people who don’t subscribe to these type of boards who don’t have issues with the romance between Spock/Uhura, just as there are those who don’t like it. My point is that I liked the Spock/Uhura aspect but I’m cool with others that don’t.

And I just want to say to those who felt this movie didn’t have the ‘feel’ of Star Trek, well I sat there in the movie theatre grinning like a loon when Karl Urban gave his eyeball roll/rant in the shuttle scene; it was Bones up there on that screen and it was true, I was watching a Star Trek movie and yep, I got little chills too. No it isn’t the Star Trek I grew up with (just like TNG wasn’t, but we eventually forgave Roddenberry for making another Trek that wasn’t Kirk/Spock/McCoy and look what happened) But I’m ok with it not being the Star Trek I grew up with, again life can’t be stagnant.

So Bob, my wish for the next movie is a pretty simple one, just make a great movie that will transport me (sorry couldn’t resist! LOL) out of my own life for a couple of hours. I’ve matured a bit, so more of an ensemble piece would work for me fine, I’d like to see the whole cast interact a bit more, though I do have a soft spot for those Spock/McCoy bickering battles (Quinto and Urban are just too cute! Just like Kelley and Nimoy were) and I look forward to seeing where Chris Pine’s Kirk is taken. So again thanks and kudos for the last movie and looking forward to the next adventure.

721. AJ - April 4, 2011

Several here write that there is something inherently wrong with Commander Spock having a relationship with a subordinate.

Are they both adults? Yes.

That’s all that is required. Don’t forget, in the 24th Century, Roddenberry put whole families on ships.

They say that an office romance is absolutely scandalous until the engagement ring comes out. Then it becomes charming.

Of course, being in deep space for years at a time would probably put rank at the back seat of requirements for me to develop feelings for someone and act on them, whatever (or wherever) the feelings may occur,

722. star trackie - April 4, 2011

“-Ships main Phasers didn’t convey sense of power. Seemed more like a scattergun than a focused energy weapon.

-Also I coudn’t clearly distinguish between use of ships Phasers and Photon Torpedoes in final battle with the Narada.”

Agreed. More focused blue energy beams and less pulse…not that I didn’t like the pulse weapons, but they should be reserved for certain circumstances…like when sensors are knocked out.

As far as the Uhura/Spock relationship goes, I can take it or leave…it really left little impact on me either way.

723. Thomas - April 4, 2011

boborci,

Apart from #658, Ian Fee and his very thoughtful and insightful post, you may want to seriously reconsider that “consultants” remark.

724. Bucky - April 4, 2011

I was fine with Spock / Uhrah because it gave Uhurah something to do as a character. This was the most the character had ever been used in a single outing. And not just with Spock, but she’s in the movie a lot. I’d say behind Kirk and Sock, she’s the thrid lead, maybe tied with Bones.

My only gripe is that we don’t see in the flick the Prime Universe still exists. Yes, we know it does because we’re on Trekmovie, but time travel in every Trek episode/movie ever wipes out the timelines and the characters fix it. Not that I wanted it to be fixed, but it’d be nice if in the sequel there was a defined shot-out to the original timeline just to establish that it does still exist.

725. boborci - April 4, 2011

723. Lol!

Me n my big mouth.

726. Patrice - April 4, 2011

Here’s an idea for the next movie:
Let’s have the Enterprise travel to and exotic planet called Pandora and have Spock hook up with the blue beauty, Neytiri.
S/U(N) all the way, baby!

BLOCKBUSTER

727. Fuba Mushu - April 4, 2011

As far as the poll goes, you forgot:

Movie Completely Sucked: No Redeeming Qualities Whatsoever

That’d be my vote.

728. Trek Lady - April 4, 2011

OH! LOL! So now all those anti S/U slashers are apparently running all over town to post on the poll from multiple computers just to derail the S/U romance! How priceless!

Or could it be that the poll actually reflects how many fans felt? What does it matter if they are slashers or not? They are still fans. They still pay money to support the franchise. In fact, if you are at all involved in fandom, you would know that iit was thanks in part to the slashers in fandom that TOS did not die off over the last 30 plus years.

Now I have gotta run! Have to go by my parents house to vote on their computer…and must not forget my work computer…and wait! The library! They have LOTS of computers! And there is my sister’s house. My brother’s house. There is that uncle I see at Christmas… I doubt he would mind. I watched the next door neighbor’s dog for a few days once…I wonder if they would let me use their computer…. my dentist might let me use his computer after my appointment this afternoon. Teeth cleaning and skew the poll all in one! A Win-Win!

(eyeroll)

729. reb - April 4, 2011

That might be fun. A quick peek at the Prime Universe as an aside. Picard would be mourning Ambassador Spock on Vulcan for instance.

yup, bob.

730. Edgar - April 4, 2011

Treklady:

Go read a AU fanfic where Kirk has to be Spock’s bondmate lest both die from pon-farr lust, and leave the rest of us in peace.

731. Trek Lady - April 4, 2011

713 Paige: “When I came here and first cast my vote, I was a bit naive to how militant shippers can get. Now that I’ve seen you lot in action? I’m even more soured to S/U than I was prior to coming here. You lot have completely ruined any chance I might have had in the future of warming up to it by being so…. ugh!”

My experience was exactly the same when I came out against S/U shortly after the film. The accusations hurled at me from people who knew *nothing* about me other than I was against the romance were viscious and hurtful, and pretty much soured me on the whole thing. Thankfully, I have since corresponded with some pro S/U fans who were much more accepting and reasonable, so do not make the mistake of painting all the S/U fans with the same brush.

732. Jeyl - April 4, 2011

“-Also I coudn’t clearly distinguish between use of ships Phasers and Photon Torpedoes in final battle with the Narada.”

Correction. Unnecessary execution of the Narada when it was already in the process of being destroyed by the black hole.

Oh, phasers are red, torpedoes are blue. I do miss the torpedo effects that had the streams of light coming out from all directions like they did in The Motion Picture, The Wrath of Khan, Generations and First Contact. Everything else they look like plain globs of light.

733. reb - April 4, 2011

I really bad ass female villian might be nice. A killer who hides among the crew somehow. Maybe she’s into Universe domination.

734. Iva - April 4, 2011

733. reb – April 4, 2011
I really bad ass female villian might be nice. A killer who hides among the crew somehow. Maybe she’s into Universe domination.

Empress Sato? Why, yes please.

735. Vedek Anon - April 4, 2011

I have looked over a great deal of the commentary here. I do not have a problem with most of the choices made by the filmmakers because:

a – they had the money, ideas and opportunity to do what the rest of us only dream about. Their sandbox, their rules.

b – there was a respect for the original material in almost every way

c – I believe they will exceed our expectations again based on the work they have done in ST and in other projects that I enjoy watching – Fringe, Cloverfield, even Hawaii 5-O is great in its own light way.

Having said that, please – PLEASE let us see Klingons in this new film.

And for a name – STAR TREK – Destiny of the Future (generic)
or – STAR TREK – Duty and Honor (if there are Klingons!)

Best wishes Bob!

736. reb - April 4, 2011

I also have a question. Weren’t 3 black holes created in ST ’09 near populated sectors?

737. reb - April 4, 2011

#734 Who’s Emperess Sato?

738. Edgar - April 4, 2011

Anyway, beyond all that:

Please, please, please put Number One in this movie. My favorite TOS lady who was untimely dropped because she was too awesome and scary for her time. Even just a throwaway reference to her, a’la Chapel in the last movie, would warm this old Trekkie’s heart. Maybe Pike could refer to her? Maybe she used to be his first officer and is now captain of a ship somewhere? It would also be a great way to honor Lady Majel Barret’s enduring influence.

Also, I would love it if Gaila survived. I like the idea of her being sex-positive and cheerful and such in spite of possibly escaping from slavery, and again, the more ladies the better, IMO.

I mean, look at all the comments here. We fans are totally sane and know what we’re talking about, right? ;)

739. Trek Lady - April 4, 2011

730 Edgar,

Nothing I can do will leave you “in peace” as it is obvious from your posts that you are anything but peaceful at heart. I mean, think about it. You are directing all this energy and anger at a bunch of fans who like to write slash… Oh the horrors. Is it really worth it? Oh, I forgot, you are just worried about the ones who are not “normal.”

And I know you say you write slash yourself, but I have never encountered a “slasher” who was so eager to split slash fandom into those who apparently are considered “normal” in your eyes, and those who like to “air their dirty laundry” as you say- which as far as I can tell, means daring to vote on an open poll. Who put you in charge of deciding who is “normal,” pray tell?

740. Vedek Anon - April 4, 2011

Empress Sato – Hoshi from ENT was the communications officer, but in their two-part episode showing the origin of the Mirror Universe, Hoshi poisons Archer and uses the TOS Defiant captured by Tholians to ransom Earth and the Terran Empire.

The episode has the Reeves-Stevens fingerprints all over it from their time helping the last season of ENT and was one of the few episodes that have become classic. A lot of ret-con, a lot of creative extrapolation of issues and small points to make a really good story

741. Trek Lady - April 4, 2011

Still can’t vote. Very odd. Maybe the poll is just overwhelmed. Anyone else having that problem?

742. Ralph F - April 4, 2011

Not uncommon for a refit in the two years between end of STAR TREK (2009) and the next TREK, so the Brewery Room can be forgotten (God, that sucked) and you can even tweak the ship a bit.

743. ND - April 4, 2011

Yeah B,

Otherwise i’ll have to stun you and put you back in your room!

744. Jonny - April 4, 2011

Sounds like a steaming coil to me.

745. reb - April 4, 2011

#738 Number one! How could I forget her. She was awesome, Edgar. But since Spock is essentially #1…

But I love the idea of cool, capable and pilots her own ship?

#739 Edgar has a right to his own opinion. And you and several TOS slashers have not offered any rational reasons for throwing out S/U other than you are a slasher and want what was in TOS.

You complained about being picked on because you apparently can’t bear the change in relationships in current reboot.

The S/U romance is very important for many reasons as would a K/S romance would be if anyone had the guts to do it.

And maybe its time for someone to write a space opera with that.

Hmmm. I’m VFX artist. maybe…just maybe ;D

746. Iva - April 4, 2011

741. Trek Lady – April 4, 2011
Still can’t vote. Very odd. Maybe the poll is just overwhelmed. Anyone else having that problem?”””

Voting on the side bar does not work for me either, ever.
Vote on the poll inside the post, that one works.

Unless it was tempered with so you can’t pick your option….. [insert conspiracy theory] lol

747. Paige - April 4, 2011

#718: I saw that you posted a link to a K/S shipper board, but didn’t click on it, because, to be entirely honest, ‘shipping’ of any kind sort of frightens me right now. The hostility it generates… wow. But I don’t doubt that there are those who voted here who have a shipper agenda and I don’t disagree with you that it is wrong to call beloved characters derogatory names in the name of that ship. In fact, I do agree with you. Wholeheartedly. It’s completely inappropriate. And also self-defeating, because tearing down a character only serves to make the opposing party defensive thus ultimately fails to promote the ‘ship’ they’re trying to promote.

I also get that it takes two to maintain an argument.

I actually found this site by googling ‘news on Star Trek 12′ because I’ve heard various reports on when the new movie is going to come out and I was curious enough to look for the answer myself, this site was the first on the list. I was completely naive when I came here to vote as to what can of worms I was entering into.

I’m mostly smarting because so far on this board I’ve personally been called an ‘elitist’, implied to be entirely TOS linier in thinking, and branded a shipper, and I see others of the same vein experiencing a similar reaction.

And all because I want to see Kirk, Spock and McCoy being kickass friends in the next movie as the main plot point. I don’t want to see Kirk and Spock make-out by the transporter pad while on duty. I don’t want to see Spock and Uhura make-out by the transporter pad while on duty. I don’t want to see ANYONE make-out by the transporter pad while on duty. I want to see Star Trek, not the Love Boat. And I felt that my opinion was branded, belittled and dismissed by the S/U fans because it differed from their own.

But yes, I do get what’s going on in the grand scheme of things here. I just thought it fair to point out that the S/U shippers aren’t exactly an innocent party here, either, though they seem to see themselves as victims. As stated previously, it takes both sides to maintain this war they seem to have going with other ships, and its unfortunate that innocents (i.e. non-shippers) are getting caught in the crossfire.

I thank you for providing a rational, non-personally attacking response. Believe it or not, yours was the first I’ve seen here.

748. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@741

If you or someone else at your isp address has already voted in this poll, you cannot vote again.

You can always go through the trouble of finding another computer to vote on.

As I am also not in charge of “normal” behavior, my opinion that going through that much trouble for a website poll would be abnormal, slasher or not, does not matter.

749. reb - April 4, 2011

#740 Thank you for the info. I’ll have to go watch it…if I can find it. Sounds great.

750. boborci - April 4, 2011

729. Nimoy/Spock references the other universe… Kirks father, etc. If the other universe ceased to exist, he would not remember it.

751. Harry Ballz - April 4, 2011

725.

Bob

don’t worry, the consultants here talk a lot, but bring nothing to the table. Just like most consultants in the private sector!

752. Amanda - April 4, 2011

@618 – Stargazer

Stargazer laments that Spock/Uhura was included, claiming the vote was skewed by slashers. I’d be interested to know evidence he (and I’m assuming Stargazer is a ‘he’ from his later comment) has that this is the case. His contention that those arguing against S/U would have no problem with Spock/Chapel is totally unfounded – where’s the evidence? Having been involved in myriad discussions since the movie’s release I can safely say that the majority of slash fans would prefer there be *no* romantic relationship between the characters just as it was in TOS.

Also, as an aside, when I went to see the film on opening night, it was with five others who are not slash fans or into fan fiction – just regular long-term Trekkers (four of whom were men, by the way). In a review of the film in the pub after, *all* of them took issue with the Spock/Uhura dynamic – for varying reasons – and felt, as shown, that it detracted, rather than added, to the film’s impact.

To address Stargarzer’s quote: “Majority of the men on this topic got it right” in discussing matters that are “relevant” to the movie and its sequel. Overt sexism aside, I could equally argue that those who are into the technical aspects of Trek as much as I’m into fanfiction, are likely here with their own agenda regarding the look of engineering and skewing *that* result (and I certainly wouldn’t presume that they’re all men voting on that issue, either).

Could Stargazer be irritated because the techy fans are getting a run for their money this time by another equally valid and dedicated area of fandom?

I’d also be interested to know how Stargazer figures that discussing how engineering looks (and the sets generally) is somehow more “relevant” than characterisation? Surely they’re of equal importance.

And to those others up in arms about this poll being linked to from some LJ groups – so what? I’m not going to believe that this poll isn’t linked to from any of the Trek technical forums. Different agenda, same difference.

Pax.

753. Jonny - April 4, 2011

750

Good for you, Bob.

Now why would Spock allow this timeline to continue, or for that matter not attempt to return to 2387?

Oh, and what happened to Gary Mitchell in this universe?

754. Vultan - April 4, 2011

#749

In a Mirror Darkly was a great two-parter. If you can find it, it’s definitely worth checking out.

Another good one was the three-part story of the Augments. Several Khan references in it.

755. Keachick - April 4, 2011

To cazza, paige and others: I was referring to the references made over the past few months on this board to the Spock/Uhura relationship – as in some nasty name calling of the Uhura character and of the actress, Zoe Saldana, who played the character. I do not recognise your names so I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that you are fairly new to the board so have not read some of the vile sputterings against this fictional pair and in particular Uhura. It is all there. The most popular word to describe Uhura was “whore”, also applied to Zoe Saldana. The poster Iva also made it clear some time back that she wanted to see a K/S shipping/slash? I was referring to Iva’s previous announcements on this topic, not anyone else’s.

Most posters here are reasonably sensitive when it comes to matters of sexual orientation, racism, sexism. However, it has been my impression that some haters of the S/U relationship have been less than sensitive in their arguments.

756. Trek Lady - April 4, 2011

745 “And you and several TOS slashers have not offered any rational reasons for throwing out S/U other than you are a slasher and want what was in TOS.”

Actually, I haven’t given ANY reason for my choice. Not have I made any statement about being a slasher, other than that I am willing to read slash along with every other type of fic. But I don’t need to give a reason for my opinion. (Haven’t several of the helpful S/U shippers here provided all the possible reasons for us? You seem to have all the answers.)

I have previously spoken at length about my reasons for not liking S/U, and it makes no difference. Inevitably it gets whittled down to, “you are a slasher and you want what was in TOS” or “you are misogynistic” or “you are racist” etc. So why bother? I am not going to change anyone’s mind, and I don’t need the additional stress in my life.

748: “If you or someone else at your isp address has already voted in this poll, you cannot vote again.”

I haven’t voted. Nor has anyone used my computer to vote. Nor did I intend to vote more than once. It seems to be a glitch of some kind with the poll itself.

Although the K/S LJ site is also down mysteriously…. sounds like a conspiracy for sure!

757. Keachick - April 4, 2011

Movie title:
Star Trek – To Boldy Go towards Truth and Beauty

No, perhaps not. Too long.

758. Edgar - April 4, 2011

// And I felt that my opinion was branded, belittled and dismissed by the S/U fans because it differed from their own. //

To be honest, I think this is more because there are so MANY responses here (and elsewhere online) that ARE abusive to Uhura and that ARE about the misguided attempt to see Kirk and Spock together onscreen (or at least to keep them nice and single, to make writing them into a relationship in fanfics easier) that people — not necessarily S/U shippers — are getting fed up and calling them out, and other fans who dislike S/U but don’t have the same motivation or misguided vitriol toward the pairing are caught up in it.

I mean, I liked Spock/Uhura, but I don’t write fanfics about it and I’m not going to pitch a fit if the filmmakers decide to drop it (though I do hope they don’t do it for a lame reason like a Kirk/Spock/Uhura love triangle). Nevertheless I feel myself having to defend the pairing because of all the bizarre bashing of it that involves very peculiar logic and a selective viewing of the film to justify (claiming Uhura slept her way on board the Enterprise, for example, and ignoring that *Kirk* was the one who got there solely through a close relationship, that of his friendship with Bones).

I think a lot of people defending the pairing are the same way. It’s less about a shipper war and more about pointing out double standards and irrationality. In my experience, anyway.

759. Sketchee - April 4, 2011

While the origin setup was fine for the “Star Trek Zero” universe, the only thing I would like to see for a sequel is some kind of moral “episode” and planetary visits with the mission to explore new worlds. I loved this movie as is and having never been to a brewery, I didn’t notice and liked the concept of Engineering. I’ve been a star trek fan for decades so I’m looking forward to the next chapter

760. Iva - April 4, 2011

“The poster Iva also made it clear some time back that she wanted to see a K/S shipping/slash?”

What? You might want to re-read this site.

Besides, IF I wanted an abramsverse K/S, I would still have equal right to vote just as anybody else.
The poll is open to all star trek fans, not to Uhura fans only.

761. Amanda - April 4, 2011

Bob, I have to love you for being willing to come here. You deserver the Starfleet Award for Valor for going above and beyond. :)

762. Dr. Cheis - April 4, 2011

I’m honestly surprised boborci is even having this discussion. Community aside, I would think the Suits at Paramount and/or Bad Robot would tell him not to ask for fan input out of fear of being sued if any of it ends up being used.

Last thing we need is for the creators being afraid of us because Ensign Ricky Redshirt suggested the title include the word “Vulcan” and then demanding a share of all the profits from merchandise featuring the word.

(Hypothetically speaking).

763. Edgar - April 4, 2011

760

// Besides, IF I wanted an abramsverse K/S, I would still have equal right to vote just as anybody else.
The poll is open to all star trek fans, not to Uhura fans only.//

In what crazy universe are these the two options available? K/S fan or “Uhura fan”?

Wait, I answered my own question: YOUR crazy universe.

lol, I’m out of here.

764. reb - April 4, 2011

#750 I’m confused Bob. Lemme see if I can get this straight. Spock was unsuccessful in saving Romulus in the Prime Universe. He & Nero are in the AU Universe.

But Picard et al are still in Prime Universe in future So Romulus doesn’t exist in Prime Universe but does in AU Universe and Vulcan has ceased to exist in AU.

So why wouldn’t Picard mourn Ambassador Spock in Prime Universe?

765. Amanda - April 4, 2011

Dr. Cheis, #762

I would imagine if someone here did come up with the perfect title, it would be a simple matter to liaise with trekmovie.com’s webmaster to get access to the person via the email address they submitted, and work out some kind of deal.

766. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@747

…self-defeating, because tearing down a character only serves to make the opposing party defensive thus ultimately fails to promote the ’ship’ they’re trying to promote.

Agreed. I’ve made that point here myself.

But as for this?:

it takes both sides to maintain this war they seem to have going with other ship

I’m sorry, but I disagree.

There is a difference between attack and defense. I’ve been here a while and I have seen many different threads about this topic, and while I have seen some embarrassingly extreme love for S/U to the point of citing possible box office receipts *shudder* and calling out the hate as coming from slashers only or being about race/gender, I’ve never seen any of those fans call any character or actor a whore or a bitch.

…Nor have I seen the strange double-talk that is having a particular condition be okay, only if it doesn’t involve certain characters.

…And from what I’ve seen, not responding doesn’t seem to curb that kind of thing very much.

767. Iva - April 4, 2011

“Last thing we need is for the creators being afraid of us because Ensign Ricky Redshirt suggested the title include the word “Vulcan” and then demanding a share of all the profits from merchandise featuring the word.”

Wow, that is possible? But if, hypothetically speaking, they did have a Vulcan (or whatever) inside title, and they did get the idea here,
how in the world could anybody claim to have come up with that idea first?

768. Ian Fee - April 4, 2011

723 Thomas

Thanks for that. However, as a fellow Trekkie, or Trekker as I believe he prefers (at least according to the Blu-Ray making of extras) , Bob Orci understands how we get in these sort of discussions. We’ve been at it for nearly 45 years!!

Trek has endured for this long because at its heart, it is good and hopeful storytelling. As a child it made me look to the night sky with wonder, imagining all that could be out there. Trek told me that one day we will find a way to follow our wonder and explore the heavens with all its strange new worlds.

Bob, by all means give us action and adventure, fun and romance but above all, give us a sense of wonder that is sadly missing in many sci-fi movies today. The crew of the Enterprise should represent the best of us and the villains they face should represent the opposite of that. The Enterprise crew shouldn’t just defeat the bad guys with phasers and fists but with their humanity (apologies to Spock for that last one!!).

769. Scott B. here. - April 4, 2011

I haven’t posted in a while, and I haven’t read a lot of the comments in this thread, but …

The BIGGEST PROBLEM I had with the new movie is not in the poll — and it’s a whopper, IMO.

The Characterization of Kirk.

This was the movie’s biggest flaw, among a slew of big flaws. Cast your mind back to the original series. Forget the movies, and in particular, forget the parody/pop culture version of Kirk that has emerged in the ensuing decades.

TOS Kirk was a soldier-scholar in the mold of Horatio Hornblower. He was not a hot dog. He was not a jerk. He was not a horny bastard. At the Academy, he was “grim” and “a stack of books with legs.” He was terrorized by an upper classman, so much so that the memory of it lingered 15 years into a successful career.

While I like Chris Pine, and think his performance was perfectly fine, I neither liked nor believed his Kirk. He was a jerk, just getting by, flying by the seat of his pants, aimless, a cut-up, a cowboy. Not only wouldn’t Starfleet promote such a fellow and hand him a starship, neither could I believe his fellow classmates, Spock and Uhura in particular, following him into a candy store, much less into the mouth of Hell. The Kirk of the new movie has much more Finnegan or Gary Mitchell in him than he does James T. Kirk.

I maintain that Kirk was a serious hard-case, a duty-bound, earnest young man, who grew to be looser and more fun-loving as he matured, rather than a brash goofball who, as he got older, grew more serious and calmed down enough to be able to learn the intricacies of 3D chess.

It appears that the movie was constructed primarily to give us this new, and in my mind, less admirable Kirk. The loss of his father in the new timeline seems to be the catalyst for the cranky, horny, rudderless Kirk. I consider this a major mistake. I understand it. A cartoony hero is going to play better to today’s young audience than a thoughtful, reluctant hero. But I can’t help thinking it’s a real shame.

And, while I’m here, I guess I should say that having Spock macking on anyone was a mistake. Spock’s coolness is rooted in his aloofness. Half the appeal of the guy for women is that he’s unattainable. And that’s setting aside the ethics of an Academy instructor sleeping with a student.

Bob Orci, if you’re reading this … I think you’re a swell guy. Your love of Trek is tangible, and I’m sure you’d be a great guy to hang with. I’m really looking forward to “Cowboys and Aliens,” as I love a good genre mash-up, but … I really didn’t enjoy “Star Trek” 2009. I realize I’m in a minority in feeling that way. I seriously wish you and Alex all the best in crafting the script with the next Trek movie. And I truly hope I’ll enjoy it.

Scott B. out.

770. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@769

He was indeed all of those things, because his father wasn’t there. Alternate universe and all that.

771. Iva - April 4, 2011

“He was indeed all of those things, because his father wasn’t there. Alternate universe and all that.”

I hope this doesn’t turn into one of those, children with single parents by default turn into ___________ (fill in the blanks) so it is no wonder he was like that.
That stereotype is so very unfortunate.

772. Paige - April 4, 2011

#756:

“… I don’t need to give a reason for my opinion. (Haven’t several of the helpful S/U shippers here provided all the possible reasons for us? You seem to have all the answers.)”

Amen to that. You’ve nailed my experience while posting here as well.

Also, in response to an earlier point you made, I have no doubt that there are S/U shippers out there who are more rational and accepting of the differing opinions of non-shippers than the ones I’ve seen here. Actually, I’d love to meet them, if only to restore my faith in the rationality of mankind.

773. gumtuu - April 4, 2011

I still think the ship is ugly.

I really like the main music theme for the movie, but when it plays over the big reveal of the Enterprise, the first words that popped into my mind to go along with the music were “That’s— one ugly ship— that’s– one ugly ship, that’s— one really ugly ship.”

I t may have ruined the music theme for me. But it still makes me smile. :)

774. reb - April 4, 2011

#769 Well, now Spock’s “attainable” and women like that too.

The one thing that is clear through all the romance, not romance is that half the fans are conservative and want the current film to conform to the previous ones.

I enjoyed the romances in TOS, they were often away into the mind of newly introduced character i.e. the Romulan Commander and Spock.

Spock also had an implied relationship with both Savick and also whatever the name of the character was in Undiscovered country.

So I really feel that this anti-S/U is coming from some place other than merely not wanting a romance at all. There is some territoriality going on.

As I’ve said earlier, I like romance be it K/S or S/U.

But I want to see it on screen not merely in fan stories.

775. Mousling - April 4, 2011

#756 – Actually Trek Lady, sniff… LJ is down for the count all over, they got hit with another DDOS, so no-one can use it at the moment, I’ve been trying to get to a friend’s gluten-free LJ page and no-can-do right now. Hopefully they’ll be up and running soon. :-)

But regarding the new Trek, I’m with everyone in wanting to see a good movie, I want to see the characters grow and evolve, and though I’ve stated that I’d like a more ensemble piece, that’s just my preference. And though I do like Spock/Uhura, I’m really ok with those who don’t, we’re each entitled to our opinions and I do agree that some forget that and it makes those that forget on both sides of the fence look bad and it does kind of fly in the face of what Trek is about, which is tolerance.

So again Bob, appreciate the time you take to scan these boards and I’m looking forward to the new movie.

776. reb - April 4, 2011

#772 And what if the S/U continues? You’ll hold your breath until you turn blue?

I just thought of bit of K/S that could be legitimately get away with. If you’re all good I’ll tell you what it is. ;D

777. Paige - April 4, 2011

#766:

“There is a difference between attack and defense. I’ve been here a while and I have seen many different threads about this topic, and while I have seen some embarrassingly extreme love for S/U to the point of citing possible box office receipts *shudder* and calling out the hate as coming from slashers only or being about race/gender, I’ve never seen any of those fans call any character or actor a whore or a bitch.”

Wherein lies the problem. When I posted my opinion here, I didn’t have a shipper agenda (still don’t) and I most certainly did not call Uhura a whore (nor will I, ever) yet I was belittled and branded for my opinion by the Spock and Uhura people. Can you see this from my perspective? I come here and answer a poll which questions what I didn’t like in ST11 and what I feel would improve ST12, I answer it as I see it, and then I’m promptly placed into a shipper generalization for my opinion and then told I’ve got tunnel vision, am unaccepting, and an ‘elitist’ for stating that opinion? Naturally, my feelings about that, and about the shippers that displayed that extreme bit of temperment are going to taint my experiences here. And from my experience, the hostilities that came at me where unfounded, so yes, right now I view those particular members of the S/U ship as oppressive forces. I’m basing this on my experiences of the past two days, no other history present because this poll is my first time posting here. Just calling it as I’ve seen it, up front and personal. And my experiences are telling me that those of the S/U ship can be just as tenacious in tearing other opinions down, even ti those not directly involved in a ship.

778. Tomi_SI - April 4, 2011

@ boborci and evryone else

What about the title:

Star Trek: Warp 2 ?

or just

Warp 2

U can haw the 2 and it’s not in conflict whit Star Trek 2.

I think becaus of Star Trek the word Warp, Warp spead, Warp engine, Over light spead= warp spead, spred in the pop culture and is imediatly recognised as a tie to Trek.

779. Iva - April 4, 2011

Just call it star trek and nothing else, after all, it will be known as abrams movie 2 anyway.

780. Rocket Scientist - April 4, 2011

769 Scott B.

Thank you sir! Total agreement. I’ve been saying similar things for a while, but not quite as well.

781. Paige - April 4, 2011

#776: Not really a K/S shipper either, as stated previously, so you’re offer doesn’t really tempt me. Sorry.

But think up a nice Kirk, Spock, McCoy friendship/bonding moment for the next movie, like the campfire scene in ST5 (which still warms my heart whenever I see it), and I’ll be very, very good.

The only ship I adamantly ship in Trek is (friend)ship. :-)

782. greenusmarine53 - April 4, 2011

Talk about being lost in a crowd but whatever…
I understand perfectly the many reasons why a TV show will look a lot different than a movie, the most obvious being the budget. But in regards to Trek, it also has had a lot to do with who was manning the helm, so to speak. Differing creative visions, viewpoints, and the like all lend to divergent thoughts on the look and feel of a series or story.
I have always felt that Roddenberry’s (and Berman’s adherence to it) utopian vision was always a bit naïve. This, combined with a perpetually low budget, have made Trek more of a thinking man’s scifi than the visual bonanza that is Star Wars which has had both good and bad consequences.
Because of budget, the series (and movies) has had to, even in the age of CGI, rely on physical models to produce the majority of their VFX. This has lead to some very odd traditions. Obviously this changes a bit in later iterations as CGI became more commonplace but by then…well, it’s hard to break tradition. The almost lethargic pace of space combat has become something of a Trek staple and many people get pretty riled up when someone attempts to change this. Add to this Roddenberry’s desire to portray humanity as explorers, using ships with mainly defensive capabilities.
The end result is…well, unrealistic (is the most diplomatic way I can say it). Many thousands of years of human “progress” have shown us who and what we are. We are animals; that excel at destruction. We are the epitome of duality, able to caress with one hand and kill with the other. We are in a constant battle with our baser selves. This, despite our best intentions, despite our deepest desire, will never change. What will change is society and government, and they way they deal with the vagaries of the human animal.
I imagine that someday, if we manage to survive, we will achieve “warp”. And I believe that we will explore. Something that Trek never deals with, if I remember correctly, is the reason behind the initial exploration. We meet the Vulcan’s and boom, we’re exploring the galaxy. But in reality our search will be less than altruistic. We will be exploring for recourses first and maybe scientific discovery a distant second. If we’re lucky, we’ll have evolved enough to take the Trek route and not the Avatar route. But it’s not looking good.
That said, this is fiction though Trek has always strived for at least the plausible. The simple undisputable fact is that if we ever achieve the kind of technology seen in Trek, specifically the ships, we’re gonna put a lot of guns on them. We may have the most sincere wishes to maintain peace, but should we get into a fight, we WILL have the ordinance to make a good showing of ourselves. Even if they’re ineffective.
Most of you have never seen a real battle. The closest you get is TV and news. The truth is, when modern man decides to put on a light show, we can do it in such a fashion as to bring a man to his knees with the sheer spectacle of it. I cannot describe the sensation of witnessing the opening salvo of Operation Phantom Fury and the assault on Fallujah. The closest I can come is the word “awe”. Terrible and complete awe.
This is what will be on our ships. We will not be flying a vessel only capable of firing from just a few points and only here and there. We will respond with a frightening fury. Coordinated chaos will reign. It will be frightening and beautiful to behold. Nothing at all like we see in all iterations of Trek other than this new(ish) movie.
The stately and grand approach of a battle group as seen in Trek will in no way resemble reality. Something I have always wondered at in most scifi media that takes place in space, until BSG, is the lack of understanding that it is a 3D environment. Almost all of it takes place in a 2D plane. “Oh look, an asteroid field. Well, crap, we’ll have to go through it.” Uh…why not over it? “Oh look! A Dominion battle group. Guess we’ll have to go at them head on, all clumped together in a way that endangers dozens of ships should one explode, there’s almost no room to maneuver, and that completely blocks fields of fire.”
People like to complain at the way this new movie has a Star Wars feel, but the truth of the matter is that Star Wars, and BSG now that I mention it, has a much better feel for space combat than Star Trek ever has. And this from a guy who owns a model of the Sovereign Class Enterprise worth just under $1000. And many more models besides.
The point of all this is, I like the pew pew. So, Mr. Orci, if you’re still reading this after almost 700 responses, I suggest you take advantage of the fact that this takes place in space and give us something we’ve never before seen in Trek. Make the old girl (well, in your case the relatively new girl) dance. I wanna see her dance.

783. Queen of Night - April 4, 2011

This comes from me of Germany:

The Revenge of the Vulcans (smile)
Khan´s Return
The Enterprise Mutiny

784. Trek Nerd Central - April 4, 2011

Star Trek: Attack of the Deranged Fans

785. Florencia - April 4, 2011

I have something to say to all that say that S/U was TOS Canon. It was not.
Their “intimate” interactions can be counted with one hand. There is almost only “The Man Trap” where Spock rejected her. And “Charlie X”.
Wow, one episode. That’s definitly says it canon.
But then K/S where they flirt in almost ALL episodes makes it ultra mega canon in levels no mesaruble by humans.

This is not against S/U fans. Everyone has the right to like a pairing. Just, that it isn’t CANON.

In the new movie I’m not asking for explicit K/S. I’m okay with the canonical subtext of the entire TOS to happen in the movie. Just, get rid of the S/U. It make unbearable, what would be a bearable movie.

Also, I don’t think that because it happen in the 2009 movie was canon, because the movie is just called Star Trek, but it isn’t Star Trek.

786. boborci - April 4, 2011

764. Yeah, you got it.

And yes, Picard would mourn Spock after he vanishes forever in the black hole.

787. John - April 4, 2011

Here’s a new Title, Star Trek 2: The Search for More Money!

788. inyourface - April 4, 2011

Shut up Trekkies…

This movie was awesome… Trek has become so boring and predictable its like watching scooby doo in space. I don’t want fan input, JJ Abrams did an awesome job. Guess what? STAR TREK ISN’T REAL… who cares what the bridge looked like or how big the enterprise was… this is how it is now so get out your inhalers and prepare to be blown away. I personally can’t wait for the second movie… Its time we bring a bit of the original series back to Star Trek…

Without freedom of choice there is no creativity. – Cpt Kirk

789. Edgar - April 4, 2011

785

// But then K/S where they flirt in almost ALL episodes makes it ultra mega canon in levels no mesaruble by humans.

This is not against S/U fans. Everyone has the right to like a pairing. Just, that it isn’t CANON. //

See, I’m not saying they’re delusional. Because they say it for me.

790. spockatatic - April 4, 2011

I think my two greatest issues with the movie were the Spock/Uhura romance and the lens flares- though there were times when those looked cool.
As a younger Trekkie who’s been with the series long before the movie came out, I can appreciate the action and the humour of the new movie without being blind to how The Original Series differs. Personally, I loved the movie, and I hope the sequel is just as good, if not better.

791. Samuel - April 4, 2011

Is Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman the Penn & Teller of screenwriting partners where we only hear from @boborci on this board – I mean,what’s the deal, man? I’m glad to hear from the dude – but it’d be nice if the other half of the duo checked in and said hello.

Thanks for what you are guys are doing – great fun!

792. Anthony Pascale - April 4, 2011

750. boborci – April 4, 2011

729. Nimoy/Spock references the other universe… Kirks father, etc. If the other universe ceased to exist, he would not remember it.

Bob as you know i have been all for the new universe and argued that it is canon that both universe exist in parallel based on precedent. However, this argument of yours that Spock would forget seems to be on more shaky ground. Yes in cases like Yesterday’s Enterprise, the heroes had their memories of the original timeline wiped. However, there are also many cases in Star Trek when they were following the overwriting rules of time travel and certain individuals did not have their memories wiped. In City on the Edge of Forever, while McCoy going back in time wiped out the Federation and the Enterprise, the landing party remained and retained their knowledge because they were shielded by the guardian. And in the case of Star Trek: First Contact Picard and the crew of the Enterprise E were also untouched by the Borg taking over humanity in the 21st century because they were protected by the time vortex thingie.

The difference between Picard in Yesterday’s Enterprise and Picard in ST:FC is his proximity to the mechanism of the time travel incursion. COTEOF and ST:FC and others show that the mechanism can protect you. In Star Trek 2009 Nero and Spock were both trapped in the black hole’s gravity well, with Nero going in first. So it can be argued that the black hole could have protected Spock even if the timeline had been overwritten by Nero who went in first. Therefore Spock’s memories are not evidence of the parallel alternative universe as he could have retained them in either a timeline rewrite or timeline branching scenario (unless it can be argued that Spock was actually not being protected by the black hole/time travel mechanism, but on screen it sure looked a lot like how it all went down in STFC).

…want to take back that nice thing you said about me earlier now?

793. Erika - April 4, 2011

@790: I agree completely, and i’m in the same boat. The Movie was awesome! And I look forward to an awesome sequel, and although i do have some of the same…issues(complaints?) as some of the people above, i’m willing to look past them and just enjoy the amazingness of the movie ;) I trust that Mr. Orci and Mr Kurtzman and JJ (if he decides to direct) will do what they feel is best for the movie, and i have comeplete confidence that it will be just as amazing as ST11! :D
And even though i do ship S/U, i’ll be happy with whatever happens to them in the sequel, as long as it fits and goes along with the movie (but it would be nice if they stayed together ;) )

794. Anthony Pascale - April 4, 2011

inyourface
warning for trolling

and others like iva, reb and others…there are too many accusations going on around here. Keep it civil and keep the bickering down

comments to
http://trekmovie/com/feedback

795. NES - April 4, 2011

Seriously, I wasn’t a fan of S/U either.
There wasn’t any hints of it in TOS, and you didn’t even know they were together until the lack of passion kiss scene.
Yeah yeah, Spock is Vulcan therefore he has no passion because passion is a human emotion.
Anyways.
As someone above stated, it IS the future, therefore there shouldn’t be a surprise when someone isn’t heterosexual.
What about all the rumors of K/S in TOS?
I mean seriously, friends go far for each other but going against protocol and breaking starfleets rules and regulations to ensure the safety of eachother is going above and beyond friend material.

If I didn’t know any better, I’d say they were emotionally compromised with each other. Fans of this CANON pairing would agree that we don’t even want anything out right explicit between the two.
Hell, bring on the subcontext and maybe throw in a vulcan kiss?
Not like anyone whose just sees the movie and doesn’t know about the world would know what that motion symbolizes.

Just saying…

796. Tomi_SI - April 4, 2011

@ Anthony Pascale 792

I think bob just implied that they think of the prime universe as intact.

797. Phil - April 4, 2011

The title of this movie? Might help if we know a little something about it. In the mean time, how about:

Casablanca
Blue Harvest
Damn it, Jim, I’m a Clone
Hemorrhagic, Ain’t it Tragic
Sucker Punch
Prime Directive
Replete with Turning Points
Failure of the Federation

798. Phil - April 4, 2011

One more….Axis Alignment

799. Phil - April 4, 2011

okay, last one…really…

Forged by Fire

800. Iva - April 4, 2011

That one sounds like a power metal album.

801. FarStrider - April 4, 2011

Ah. . . Almost 800 posts. . . Spock/Uhura must have been mentioned somewhere. . . sigh. . .

@795 “And Uhura, whose name means freedom. ‘She walks in beauty like the night’.” ~Spock in “Is there in truth no beauty” BTW, Spock never quotes one of the most romantic poets in the English language about Kirk. . . subtext is one thing. . .but actual evidence is another. . . and given the times TOS was aired, of course S/U wasn’t canon. . .

~FS

802. Keachick - April 4, 2011

Or another movie title:
Star Trek – Thataway!

Star Trek is about exploration in whatever shape that means. Romance and love and sex cannot be denied and it is unhealthy to do so. The Spock/Uhura thing does not bother me either. My preference has always been for a good Kirk romance/love/sex relationship with positive outcomes (going where no writer has gone before). I am not suggesting that these romances should be the main theme of the movie, but (total) exclusion is cold, inhuman and unrealistic. Spock is half-human as well… This, in no way, can or should interfere with the developing friendship and love forming between Kirk/Spock/McCoy. It is possible to have more than one friend and love more than one person, all at the same time.

In reference to Kirk being different in this universe: Some intimate that he is not “stack of books on legs” or interested in gaining knowledge etc – well, in spite of not being in Starfleet, he did know what xenolinguistics meant…do people not know or comprehend what is meant by “genius-level” or “aptitude test results off the charts”? Just because he is not receiving formal education and having to wear a silly red cadet uniform does not mean that he is uninformed, uninterested and not somehow able to inform himself, be interested…

Besides, I always thought that it was Spock who took time to acquaint himself with earth classics etc.

I guess I should be nitpicking but frankly, I have little nitpick about, with this movie. I guess I am trying to explain why some things in the movie that seem wrong are not necessarily “wrong” if you watch and listen for the subtle clues given in the movie.

Thank you, Ian Fee, for your well considered and well written post. Yes, grief has *funny* ways of showing itself. Not one of us has ever experienced seeing our whole world/planet be imploded. We as humans have witnessed horrendous destruction, natural and manmade, but nothing like what happened to Vulcan. I find it odd that people here are calling out crew members for behaving against regulations or whatever in a time such as this. Spock had not only lost his entire planet but also saw his mother fall to her death and people expect that his friend/lover(?) was just going to sit there communicating or whatever, as if nothing had happened! Good holy God almighty. Lord, Have Mercy!

Why can’t a kiss sometimes just be that – a kiss?

(Sometimes I just despair when I read some of these comments.)

803. Keachick - April 4, 2011

This thread is so interesting. Gotta go. Don’t have time read it all…ah, this thing they call Time.

804. Third Remata'Klan - April 4, 2011

My biggest issue with the film is one I actually perfectly understand: The lack of development for Nero.

Of course, being an origin story for the crew, something had to give, and that something was the villain.

I voted for that issue, but my second is one that’s more easily addressed: the lens flares. They’re actually kind of cool, but on repeat viewings, I find them overdone. Just cut them back a little!

Otherwise, heck, I love the movie. The destruction of Vulcan, I don’t agree with it being on the poll. I’m actually fully in favor of it (as harsh as that sounds). It was the perfect way to tell the audience that anything could happen in this new universe, without killing off a member of the crew.

805. Rusty0918 - April 4, 2011

#86, #522

You’re absoultely right, they’re very impractical. You know, in an online Family Feud game, they did a question survey on what was inappropriate office dress. The top choice was “Mini Skirt.” Which does support me.

The Spock / Uhura thing doesn’t click. It raises a lot of questions regarding scandals within the Academy (instructor/student romances), etc. To some people, she was reduced to the pining damsel role.

If they do include another female crewmember, it should be one of authority, like say the chief of security, and again, one who wears pants instead of the miniskirt. We don’t need Chapel or Rand. Both weren’t necessary characters.

806. Miko - April 4, 2011

STA2TREK
-ALPHA-
or

Star treK
Mission Year One

807. boborci - April 4, 2011

792. All of the examples you cited where time was overwritten and some characters kept their memories included an explanation of why that was the case, and/or some exotic magical tech was employed.

We cited no such thing, and our time travel device, a black hole, is a thing theoretically found in nature, so it falls into none if the examples you cited.

Still luv ya!

808. Heather P. - April 4, 2011

Okay, so awesome article. The poll? Even better. The lens flares were kinda annoying and so was the brewery used for engineering, but whatever. The worst of it for me (and I’d never really watched more than two or three episodes of TOS before XI) was the Spock/Uhura element. They don’t belong together. I figured that out without even watching the Original Series. The whole movie that relationship just felt off.

First of all, it would be unprofessional at the very least for Spock to have a romantic relationship with a student–especially one he obviously has some kind of jurisdiction over. I can’t see Spock ever being that unprofessional. It’s the same for Uhura. Her character is strong and she’d never want to slide by on looks or favoritism or whatever, wouldn’t want that to even be an issue. At the worst it could possibly be breaking some kind of fraternization regulations since she *is* his student specifically, not just a student at the Academy. It just seems like something that wouldn’t be allowed: professors starting relationships with students *they have in class*.

Second, continuing on with the way the relationship butchers Uhura’s character, she abandons her post how many times to run after Spock like a good little girlfriend? That’s just wrong–it’s portraying her as someone who can’t attend their duties without letting personal feelings interfere. Sure, it was an intense situation, but she had to have been trained better than that and I can’t stomach the insinuation that she’d ignore duty and training in such a major way. Also, the whole romantic aspect takes her from mainly being a strong, competent, intelligent woman in a powerful position to “the girlfriend” who just so happens to also be competent and intelligent.

Third, it’s obvious that their relationship wasn’t the strongest. Spock didn’t change his mind about resigning his commission and returning to the Enterprise for Nyota. Their connection wasn’t strong enough. It was only when his older, alternate self told him about the life-defining relationship that Spock changed his mind. It wasn’t a relationship with Nyota Uhura that the older Spock was talking about either. In TOS it was always Kirk and Spock.

So, if anything needs to be absolutely changed in the next movie it has to be the Spock/Uhura dynamic: they are friends not lovers.

809. johnny - April 4, 2011

I wanted to check all of them. What a horrible, horrible movie it was!!

810. Thomas - April 4, 2011

768. Ian Fee,

I can (and do) appreciate the discussions, but sometimes, it just seems like people are more interested in argument and vitriol than truly talking things over with one another. The truly worthwhile, thoughtful, non-hostile comments are relatively rare.

Discussions like this thread would seem so odd to non-Trekkers, who must assume that Trekkers (or Trekkies) must just love and digest all of it. Everyone has their own ideas and interpretations of what Trek is and what it could be, and I think that we as fans need to allow that same freedom to those who create new Trek.

Not that anyone is likely to pay attention to this, but I voted “Other story/plot issue”, as I really wanted to see more of Dr. McCoy, as a lot of people seem to have wanted.

811. reb - April 4, 2011

Thank you Bob, for clarifying.

Whew! I’m amazed you guys can keep this all straight.

I wonder how Marvel and DC guys do it with 70 years of stories?

The mind boggles, then reals, then implodes…then reappears in a parallel dimension. LOL!

812. P Technobabble - April 4, 2011

All this yammering about Spock/Uhura is making my brain hurt.
How this matter manages to conjure up some of the posts I’ve read is truly amazing. It seems everything that could be said, pro and con, has already been said, so I realize there’s little point in making any comments.
First (as has been mentioned), Spock and Uhura are fictional characters, not your best friends. As fictional characters, they can be manipulated and put into whatever circumstances the writers choose to create.
I, for one, am satisfied with that.
Second, the characters are meant to represent aspects of us — all of us. Spock losing his mother is something all of us have, or will, face. In such an event, people will come to us, to console us. In some cases, out of great sympathy, some people might let their defenses down, allowing feelings to be shown that they might otherwise never reveal. Uhura fills this role. There’s nothing outrageous, or bizarre about it. It does happen. It’s human nature, and Uhura is, after all, human.
There is no problem here, other than the problem some people want to turn it into.
I am convinced some people simply enjoy b!^*#ing, and will find anything to rant about, right down to the length of Spock’s fingernails. Sheesh!

813. boborci - April 4, 2011

785.

It’s canon, now!

814. Gary - April 4, 2011

what is canon now?

815. Vultan - April 4, 2011

#807

-Black hole in nature—YES.

-Lightning storm in space—Looks neat… but… I’m pretty sure you have to have some sort of atmosphere for lightning.

-Red matter—Yeah, that sounds like “exotic magical tech” to me.

816. Iva - April 4, 2011

We really should have been given the option for voting for more things at the same time.
This way it seems like there is one issue with the movie, but you’re okay with everything else, while in fact there are few, but you were forced to pick just one. This is why the results are so screwed up.
How many people had to give up on other options that have greater impact, just because choosing that one would have made them look like they approve Spuhura? I for one would have voted for more than one thing.

817. Starbase Britain - April 4, 2011

Dear Mr Orci

Thank you for your reply to my post of #289. Im heartened to hear your positive about the term ‘The Landing Party’ in the new movie. My prayers have been answered. Its very specific to TOS.

This opportunity for fans to share ideas and thoughts with you is terrific. Thanks very much

Greg UK

818. Anthony Pascale - April 4, 2011

Bob

So your view is that in Star Trek, the mechanism of time travel can protect people from the effects of an overwriting timeline as long as it is technological in nature and not a natural phenomena?

I guess that hair being split will have to be it.

819. boborci - April 4, 2011

No, just following your logic using your examples.

In my view, the rules of quantum mechanics are the only rules applicable in my Trek. As I said before, as long as I’m around, there is no slingshotting around the sun, etc. There is no such thing as overwriting the timeline, and therefore technology protecting you from losing your memory is irrelevant.

In my opinion.

820. Paige - April 4, 2011

#802:

“…This, in no way, can or should interfere with the developing friendship and love forming between Kirk/Spock/McCoy. It is possible to have more than one friend and love more than one person, all at the same time.”

I, politely, disagree, especially this early on in the Kirk, Spock and McCoy dynamic. And I’ll explain why…

Earlier I used the campfire scene in ST5 as an example of the type of friendship/bonding moments between the trio and I’ll use it again now. It was a touching scene, but it was also a very telling one, philosophically, both into the mindset of Kirk and in his dynamic with Spock. Kirk stated that he knew he wasn’t going to die while mountain climbing because he knew Spock was there to save him. He then stated that he feared that when he did die, he was going to be alone. Pretty profound moment, and as I see it, an important one. It provided great insight into Kirk’s character. Both in his unfailing trust in Spock and his greatest fear where simultaneously portrayed. And since we’re really not used to seeing Kirk afraid, of anything, I consider the scene rather important when it comes to understanding our beloved captain.

Yet the whole reason that scene was possible? Because Kirk, Spock and McCoy chose to spend their shoreleave together, sort of the ol’ boys club. The theme of the three of them as family, one chosen, not by birth, was prevalent in that film. If Spock or Kirk or McCoy had a girlfriend, what are the chances, realistically, that they would be spending shoreleave with each other and not the romantic interest?

Am I saying it’s impossible to divide time between a significant other and a best friend? Of course not. I’m married and my husband, rightfully, doesn’t mind my going out with my friends for the occasional luncheon or shopping spree. Key word being ‘occasional’. Most of my time and effort goes to my immediate family (my husband, our child) and maintaining those relationships, as is healthy.

But the depth of that campfire conversation, the plausible reason they were all there together, was because none of them were otherwise attached. Dividing Spock’s time during the duration of a two hour film, where he has both a girlfriend and a best friend means that we get less best friend/partnership/lone ranger and tonto/lois and clark, moments, thus less insight into the Kirk and Spock dynamic that I, personally, have come to cherish and associate with Star Trek.

821. Captain Dunsel - April 4, 2011

I don’t want to spam this up, so I’ll try to be as brief as possible.

James T. Kirk was always considered a young captain in Starfleet (at least if the books are any indication). I think the idea being that the U.S. had a young president at the time the show was on the air and so we were trying to tap into that.

HOWEVER, there were great lengths into showing that Kirk had gone through everything necessary to get there. Sure, he cheated on the Kobayashi Maru, but Gary Mitchell also said that Cadet Kirk was a walking stack of books and that in his class you could either Think or Sink.

And what of young Lieutenant Kirk’s first deep space mission aboard the U.S.S. Farragut where he was wracked with guilt over indecision that could have saved his captain’ life?

James Kirk was robbed of this and much more in this new universe which only begs the question of… what qualifies him to be a starship captain? Remember that part of his mission was to act as a parttime diplomat and ambassador as well as his role as a military leader. Presumably one gains this kind of knowledge by being out there. As presented in the new continuity,. Kirk is a booksmart captain with little practical experience.

Sure now, he saved the Earth and deserved something, but handing him the keys to the Federation flagship sounds a bit like overkill.

I don’t want to cast negative light on Mr. Orci and crew. They did an excellent job bringing STAR TREK up to date for a modern audience. What concerns me is at what cost the story had to be told.

As much as I don’t like the new Enterprise aesthetically, as much as I think the uniforms are a bit nonsensical (only in that they have a billion deltas on them), as much as I think that the technology overall is far less appealing-looking to the original, as much as I disagree with the destruction of Vulcan… I can live with all of that. Change can be good, and so much more can come from it. Richer textures. And, for the most part, at least there is a reasonable line of logic to be followed behind each of these.

I can’t imagine that promoting a guy from probation to Captain in 48 hours is going to inspire loyalty amongst a crew of officers who have been working years to rise through the very same ranks. Sure, some go for the phenom, but most won’t. And I just can’t imagine that he has all of the faculties at his disposal that a competent captain would have at this stage in his development.

My 2 cents.

822. Jonny - April 4, 2011

821.

hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

823. Vultan - April 4, 2011

#819

Exactly how does red matter figure into quantum mechanics?
Or does it follow the Rule of Exotic Plot Devices & MacGuffins?

;)

824. Anthony Pascale - April 4, 2011

OK Bob,

I agree with you, but I also understand where some come from in that they walked away from the movie thinking that the film used the STFC rules. The evidence in the film itself can be reasonably interpreted either way by the viewer (even as I pointed out, Spock’s memories can be seen from either point of view). I did a poll on this at last year’s Star trek con and it was 50/50 on who thought the new timeline was parallel and who thought it overwrote the old one. Your call is the one that decides it in the end of course, and I actually agree with it and that is the way I saw it. However, I can see how others saw it the other way.

And also, i have noted that it really doesn’t matter except in the extended universe and in that case MWI is the ruling so thats that.

825. boborci - April 4, 2011

821.

Some of those experiences you cited are not precluded by our movie.

Kirk coudve served a semester abroad aboard the Farragut, etc…

826. boborci - April 4, 2011

824.Wanted those who did not want to think about QM to be able to interpret the movie that way. 50/50 is a win!

827. The Nit Pick King - April 4, 2011

825

…perhaps, but you promoted a third year military career candidate with what we’re led to believe is a criminal record to the captain of what we’re to understand as a state of the art vessel.

828. boborci - April 4, 2011

827.

True! Part of the commentary on our times. JFK, Bush, Obama., etc.

829. Iva - April 4, 2011

825. boborci – April 4, 2011
Kirk coudve served a semester abroad aboard the Farragut, etc…

It is still just academy fieldwork, a base, nothing more.
After the diploma, it is necessary to go through additional years of training to get the qualifications necessary for being a captain.

830. Vultan - April 4, 2011

JFK?

I must’ve missed the grassy knoll on Vulcan.

831. The Nit Pick King - April 4, 2011

828.

? Those are some weak examples.

None of those three (etc) men were promoted from a (questionable) academic position as a cadet (college student, what have you) to the presidency.

832. Phil - April 4, 2011

821. Captain Dunsel – April 4, 2011

Here is the short answer. Right place, right time. Nothing else seems to matter in Starfleet.

Got to think that everytime Kirk calls a senior staff meeting you will be able to hear the tumbleweeds and crickets whenever Captain Kiddie asks for an opinion on something….

833. dmb1138 - April 4, 2011

825.
Thank you, boborci. I’ve said the very same thing to friends who have brought up the fact that Kirk had apparently never served on the Farragut. How do we know he didn’t? He was at the Academy for three years, right? Wasn’t he a midshipman? That could easily have happened while he was a student.

834. The Nit Pick King - April 4, 2011

828.

Perhaps what you could have done for research was to actually consult a ranking military officer and ask him “under what circumstance could this happen”?

835. captain_neill - April 4, 2011

Its Monday so I am assuming my ban has been lifted. Either way I want to apologise but main thin is I wanted to add a comment.

824 and 825

To me the film works well being se in a parallel Universe. Its done in a way that allows the trekkies to be happy while at the same time makes it a clean canvas.

Is it what I would have done? No. But I totally understand why you went with the alternate universe route. Its the only to do it without getting a headache based on continuity.

Also doesn’t Kirk join Starfleet later in this new universe and get command of the Enterprise sooner than in the prime universe, going by the years used in the new stardate system?

I guess the way and my friends view is that Enterprise is canon in both universes.

826
In the test screening on the blu ray I think you said some Trekkies went quiet when Vulcan was destroyed? I guess that was the make or break moment?

Will the repecussions of this be a plot point in next movie?

836. boborci - April 4, 2011

831. And yet somehow, I got away with it!

837. The Nit Pick King - April 4, 2011

836.

…got away with failing to explain adequately…?

838. Vultan - April 4, 2011

Comparing Kirk to JFK, Bush and Obama doesn’t really add up since none of those guys were elected president strait out of college (or the military).

However, Mr. Orci, looking further back you’ll find that the youngest captain in US Navy history, Stephen Decatur, was 25 when he was promoted to the rank—thereafter taking command (for a time) during the First Barbary War of a sloop called… USS Enterprise.

True story. No, seriously—it is!

839. Harry Ballz - April 4, 2011

Bob

if the next movie involves our beloved crew fighting a certain lizard race on a certain planet, then the title should be:

STAR TREK: ARENA

If it’s a different subject matter, the same rule applies…A ONE WORD TITLE!

Clean, simple, easy to remember for “word of mouth” recommendation…

840. dmduncan - April 4, 2011

834. The Nit Pick King – April 4, 2011

828.

Perhaps what you could have done for research was to actually consult a ranking military officer and ask him “under what circumstance could this happen”?

***

And what could a military officer of the year 2011 tell us about military service in the year 2258?

Precedent? There is. Ranald C. Mackenzie, Civil War, brevetted from Captain to Lt. General.

With Pike having to leave the Enterprise and out of communication with Starfleet, promoting a one of a kind genius to be Spock’s assistant made sense in the context of the story. From the position of First officer, Kirk then demonstrates his strategery by maneuvering Spock out of the way so that he, Kirk, could do the right thing by pursuing Nero.

841. dmduncan - April 4, 2011

838. Vultan – April 4, 2011

Stephen Decatur. That cinches it. Let the naysayers hereafter be silent and suitably humbled.

842. reb - April 4, 2011

Here’s an enviornment on another planet Star Wars has explored but Star Trek has not–unless you count ST:IV.

Underwater civilizations. That could be fun. Might be heavy vfx but might be fun.

843. The Nit Pick King - April 4, 2011

838.

The master of a ship is referred to as Captain as a point of of order. It wasn’t *Cadet* Stephen Bucater, rather Lt. and in 1803 a Lieutenant rank was common as a senior rank, most often behind or as first mate. A practice still observed in a modern navy, but unlikely for the command structure of a capital ship, ie aircraft carrier/ battleship/ cruiser and so on…

844. dmduncan - April 4, 2011

What an enterprising young man that Stephen Decatur was.

845. Damian - April 4, 2011

764–Don’t forget, Picard would not know Spock went back in time. From his point of view, Spock was sucked into a black hole and presumably died.

Re; the whole quantum mechanics–time travel has been handled very differently in different circumstances. In the new movie’s case, it has been stated a new parallel universe was created. I guess you would argue different types time incursions cause different effects, some resulting in a totally new timeline, others overwriting the original timeline, hence the need to repair the damage in those cases.

Re; the rapid fire promotion–that was an element of the story as I noted I had a hard time getting my mind around. Realistically I understand the reasoning (who would have known who Dr Piper, Alden or Kelso were outside of Star Trek fans) people who were presumably on the ship when Kirk took command (judging from Where No Man Has Gone Before). People wanted to see Sulu, Chekov, McCoy and Uhura. Except for Sulu, they were not there. –The only way to fix that would have been to have a few years pass between Kirk graduating the Academy and the Narada attacking Vulcan (actually, I guess that could have worked). The launch of the Enterprise would have happened then and the crew would have been there together. But what was done is done. The rest of the story made sense for me and I just have to move past the cadet to captain thing.

846. dmduncan - April 4, 2011

843. The Nit Pick King – April 4, 2011

You ARE the nit pick king. So what? If the parallels between the past and the future (of the movie) are not perfect then you can’t accept it? That’s your argument? That because it never happened precisely the same way in the past it cannot happen that way in the future of a science FICTION movie?

847. The Nit Pick King - April 4, 2011

845.

Not at all. It’s just weak when it doesn’t happen logically.

848. dmduncan - April 4, 2011

Also, they had all received their duty assignments aboard ships. The impression that creates in me is that they were at that point commissioned.

Kirk also promised to buzz through Starfleet in 3 years, which he did, again indicating that they were on the verge of graduation if not actually graduated when the distress from Vulcan came in.

849. PJays - April 4, 2011

Mr Orci,

It blows me away how you come to this website and take the criticism and respond to all of our questions and opinions. Even if it is negative, you answer with kindness and open mind.

Since this is a topic about nitpicking, I thought I would change it up and mention some of the positives I liked about the movie….

-I loved how you made Pike the father figure to Kirk.
-I loved how you stuck to canon when you could have easily started from scratch and did your own thing.
-I loved all the little easter eggs for die hard fans to pick up on.
-Lets just say I loved the movie!!!!

I’d say everyone here agrees with me that we thank you for coming here and listening to us fans for all the positives and the negatives. The Star Trek community is lucky to have you.

P.S. – Anthony
This goes to you as well, as you took some criticism yourself a month or so ago. Keep up the good work and I agree with Bob that this the is the BEST Trek site!

850. Vultan - April 4, 2011

#844 dmduncan

That he was.

To those interested, I highly recommend reading up on Stephen Decatur. He was the Lord Nelson of the US Navy, a fighting captain and a legend in his own time. Sad that so many, particularly Americans, are unfamiliar with him today.

851. Damian - April 4, 2011

At least we don’t have to worry about timelines, time travel, etc for the near term, as the new “court” noted they are leaving time travel be for a while. It did work extremely well for Star Trek IV, First Contact and Star Trek (2009) but it is probably best to not keep using that plot device.

852. reb - April 4, 2011

Since I’m putting in requests, I would like a truly frightening enemy/threat.

I remember how Jerry Pournelle didn’t much care of the Voyager because it might alert more powerful ruthless and avaricious Christopher Columbuses to our location.

Though given the state of the Earth’s enviornment, the question is who would want it besides us?

Maybe the Giant Squidllies of Independence Day…but who else would?

853. Phil - April 4, 2011

828. boborci – April 4, 2011

Sorry Bob, it’s still a weak example to compare being elected to a civilian office to promotion within a command structure in the military. All these fine examples from the Civil War aside, the modern Navy trains extensively, then qualifies them before turning them loose in the fleet. I’m assuming that even more complex space vessels in the future would require more training, not less.

Regardless, it is what it is, and it worked. Carry on…

854. Basement Blogger - April 4, 2011

It’s great that from what I’ve read on this site that the team at Bad Robot wants to go deeper. I’ve always said less Star Wars more Star Trek. Trek is after all, science fiction. It’s what Gene Roddenberry wanted when he conceived the show. He wanted an entertainment with substance. Or as Roger Ebert described it, Star Trek should be about ideas, scientific or philosophical. I’m looking forward to the next film.

Now if they can make twelve new episodes of “Futurama”, could somebody at CBS at least do something with their share of the franchise? How about a short CGI TV series set in the prime universe with de-aged Shatner and Nimoy? What do you say CBS?

855. reb - April 4, 2011

782. greenusmarine53 – April 4, 2011

Thank you for posting. That was brilliant! I hope you’re safe.

856. Katma - April 4, 2011

@ Bob Orci

I loved the S/U romance — as a life-long Trekker, I saw them together and thought: “Logical!” Similar interests [languages, music …], similarly dedicated to Starfleet … would love to see their pairing continued in a background way in future movies as a mature, loving relationship.

I loved a great many things about the movie, and while I have some gripes, they’re very minor. The main thing is, that after Nero, *please*, no more operatic supervillains.

My only gripe with STXI, set-wise, was all the super-bright lighting and lens flares. I could only think how Bridge personnel must retire after shift with terrible migraines.

857. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@777

I gave you at least some general examples of the kinds of messed-up things that are said here, that put S/U shippers on the defensive.

And I think S/U shippers have justifiably called these kinds of things out (bitch, whore, et al) as coming from very disgusting places and have been on edge because it’s so common to read that kind of thing here.

What was said to you that was belittling?

Was it in response to anything that you said that could construed as fitting that warped train of thought?

858. reb - April 4, 2011

#845. Damian – April 4, 2011

In the Star Trek: Countdown (to the movie I presume) Picard is the Earth Ambassador and has to strong arm the Vulcan Science Academy into helping Spock current head of the helps Spock. So Picard knows what happened to Spock.

859. Swing-21 - April 4, 2011

I am ashamed of some of the comments I read here. If we’re here, it’s for the same reason: We all love Star Trek and wish to help making the next movie as good as possible. We’re ALL Trekkers, even the slashers. ALL votes count, not only the ones agreeing with you.

Yes, there are enthusiastic people on all sides and shippers can appear a little overzealous, but they still love the same show and the same characters. Also, some people need to review their history: slash was BORN because of the chemistry between Kirk and Spock in TOS, and K/S has been going around since 1967, which makes it older than a majority of people here. Gene Roddenberry did not intend to make gay undertones in his work, but he did not oppose the ones who wanted to read it like that.

So show a little respect and stop insulting people just because they’re different.

I thought Star Trek had taught us better.

860. reb - April 4, 2011

But yes, it would be logical for Picard to assume he perished. But given all he knows and has been through himself, I’m sure he and Data might be hoping for the best.

861. Bren (Destructor!!!) - April 4, 2011

It’s a bit late in the day for adding poll options, but one thing I’d like left out of the next film is:

LEAKY SCIENCE

Sure, Star Trek has never exactly been water tight on the science front, but it has at least been internally consistent. Reasonably.

Bob Orci, time travel through black holes is Disney territory. Slingshot around one, sure.

To me, the VFX crew did a great job on the “black holes”, but they looked more like an updating of the temporal rift that the Enterprise C arrived through in “Yesterday’s Enterprise”. That would have made a lot of sense, but there was no dialogue to indicate it.

Was it a case of pandering to the lowest-common-denominator to whom “black hole” is likely the most technical term they are aware of? On behalf of your audience, my ego is dented by that.

Another reference that could be nice: Refer to Scotty’s “Transwarp Beaming” as Subspace Transporters, and the health risks that limit their use. I forget the name of the episode, but it was the one where Daimon Bok tried to pass off some loser as Picard’s son.

Little tips of the dialogue hat like that make this trekker smile. :)

Also, Nitpick, probably a script revision that the Writer’s Guild Strike prevented: NuSpock said “Steal back the black hole device”, when he had no reason to believe it had been stolen in the first place. Kirk hadn’t told him.

Finally, thank you for listening to all of us self-righteous nerds :) It’s appreciated, even if we don’t give you the praise you deserve. Thanks for making Star Trek live, too :D

862. boborci - April 4, 2011

Bye everybody!

863. dmduncan - April 4, 2011

853: “All these fine examples from the Civil War aside, the modern Navy trains extensively, then qualifies them before turning them loose in the fleet. I’m assuming that even more complex space vessels in the future would require more training, not less.”

So the education system is better, and civilians go into Starfleet better educated. They’ve also figured out how to make average IQs higher, and training is that much more evolved, packing more learned information and testing in a shorter period of time, making what we saw onscreen plausible.

Why not? Really, it’s science fiction. Why would any of that be out of bounds for a Star Trek future?

It’s Star Trek, not Sense and Sensibility.

864. Phil - April 4, 2011

@862. Bye…

865. Swing-21 - April 4, 2011

Bye Mister Orci! Thanks for listening!

866. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@863

All it takes is a little imagination and an open mind to answer some of the niggling questions people have about the whys of things in the movie.

I’d say most of the issues people have aren’t plot-holes, just plausible scenarios people don’t agree with.

867. Bren (Destructor!!!) - April 4, 2011

SPOCK: I have been studying our sensor logs of Ambassador Spock’s Black Hole Device. I believe one of the components in relevant to our current situation. Specifically, the Refined Enhanced Decalithium.

[KIRK stares at SPOCK blankly]

SCOTTY: RED matter, sir.

KIRK: Right!

868. Bren (Destructor!!!) - April 4, 2011

Bye Bob!

869. SoonerDave - April 4, 2011

boborci, Anthony

I love this discussion and you’re willingness to hear the fans!

There is at variety of precedent in the TOS universe for a “synthetic” time travel device to erase memory. In “Tomorrow is Yesterday,” wherein the Enterprise inadvertently traveled back to 20th century Earth and was sighted as a UFO, and then picked up two unintentional passengers (Capt. Christopher and the MP). To return each of the passengers to Earth without concern for affecting future timelines, the Enterprise went back in time just a few days, and beamed each man back to the point where he originated. Kirk explains away the time problem, telling Capt. Christopher, “you won’t have anything to remember, because it never will have happened.”

Now, this hair split that has been discussed is treacherous. The “natural phenomena” memory exclusion doesn’t work in light of the TNG episode “Cause and Effect,” wherein the Enterprise-D is stuck in a repeating time loop that ends with the Enterpise exploding. The reason this kills the natural phenomena exception is that the loop is, finally, resolved only because the crew members being to *remember* having repeated the events in the loop. And we won’t even go into how I believe the destruction of the Enterprise in the loop(s) is an apriori demonstration that time travel, as posited there, just crushes to oblivion the law of conservation of mass (just as does the presence of both Spocks in the same timelines), but that’s another argument.

The other area of treacherous travel I see in this paradox is what constitutes a “natural” phenomena, versus artificial factors inducing a “natural” consequence? Put another way, why isn’t time travel as postulated in TOS (light-speed breakaway) simply a discovery of a natural phenomenon?

Great fun in this discussion. Hope someone puts together another AR game leading up to the movie next summer…

870. Phil - April 4, 2011

863. dmduncan – April 4, 2011

I think you missed my last line. Whatever, cadet to captain made it to the big screen. It really dosen’t matter to me if it was genetic engineering, nepotism, better breeding, being Admiral Barnetts boy toy, or pre-programming from youth. As long as you are completely making stuff up, then yeah, anything is plausible.

871. Julie Schuster - April 4, 2011

Part of the reason that I enjoy fan fiction so much is that many times, stories are written that offer explanations of things we’ve seen (or, more importantly, haven’t seen) and help us make sense of what makes it to the screen. I recently read an excellent piece on fanfiction.net (Atlas) that covered the time from when the Enterprise returned from facing Nero to when she re-launched with Kirk as her official captain. (And let’s face it, time elapsed. Repairs must have been made at the very least.)

In the tale, we see how the surviving cadets step in for lost instructors and classmates; we see the brilliant, capable Jim Kirk; we see Spock questioning the decision to make Kirk captain, but then observing Kirk for several weeks and changing his mind; even the seeming abrupt arrival of Spock on the bridge, submitting his candidacy for First Officer, is explained beautifully. (Because really, they’re ready to head into space in mere minutes and Kirk doesn’t have an XO? Come on.) And having that backstory in my head makes the movie more plausible, the experience richer. There is only so much running time for a motion picture (though I’d go to see a four-hour Trek movie with no problem), so not every action can be explained, not every avenue explored. Fill in the blanks in a way that satifies you as an entertainment consumer!

Mr. Orci, thank you so much for caring enough to solicit our opinions, as contradictory as they may be. As a 40-year-old woman who loved the 2009 movie (and loved Star Trek long before 2009), I can only ask that you focus on crafting a well-written story. So many movies today have stories that just make no sense. (And I’m not talking about the science of black holes or alternate timelines.) I know that much happens to a script between the writing and the filming, let alone editing, but please, just write a good story and fight for it to remain a good story and not be truncated by ridiculous cuts or additions or changes. Thank you!

P.S. Oh, and if there’s any chance you need a coffee-fetching assistant or a pencil sharpening professional or a hand-sanitizer engineer to help you out on set, please let me know. I’m sure my family would let me arrange a short leave-of-absence.

872. virgin vulcan basement nerd - April 4, 2011

damn! this got tl;dr pretty quick.

boborci, if you ever see this, thanks for kicking ass. kthxbai.

873. Phil - April 4, 2011

866. gingerly – April 4, 2011

It’s really just a question of enjoying this for what it is, science fiction. Emphisis of FICTION. There is nothing plausible about any of this, it’s just a good story.

874. reb - April 4, 2011

“#814. Gary – April 4, 2011

What is canon now?

13. boborci – April 4, 2011
785.

It’s canon, now!”

Gary, you have to go read #785 to find out.

875. reb - April 4, 2011

OMG, Bob! You’re involved with Locke and Key?!!! That’s my favorite Comic! I love the art so darn much.

Wherever are you gonna find anyone as handsome/beautiful as Dodge/Zach?

876. ultramarine - April 4, 2011

I like Spock / Uhura — Please keep it Bob, but don’t show much, if any of it on screen.

The movie should be about the team, not one couple.

877. Paige - April 4, 2011

#857: I was called an ‘elitist’, directly accused of cheating in this poll for a shipper agenda (which I’m not – a shipper, that is, other than, as stated, a (friend)shipper), and told I was so TOS minded I was forcing my ancient TOS views on the populace (which, when I brought up the Kirk, Spock, McCoy dynamic in TOS, I meant it as an example of the vein of what I want to see in ST12), unwilling and unable to accept ST11 as an alternate reality.

And no, I did not verbally castrate the characters by calling them derogatory names to make a point. Believe it or not, I like all seven characters very much. However, I am a fan of the ol’ boys club dynamic between Kirk and Spock and McCoy, not as lovers, but as friends and as brothers and as partners in crime and stated such. My opinion is that the romantic pairing of Spock with ANYONE, be it Uhura, or Saint Teresa or Bobo the clown (or Kirk with anyone, or McCoy with anyone), especially this early in the triads relationship (as friends) would dampen their ties and prevent them from forming as deeply as it was in TOS, a dynamic I enjoyed and want to see more of, in part because it was modeled after the hero and sidekick archtypes set by greek mythos and partly because it was just fun to see portrayed so brilliantly and effectively in Trek.

878. dmduncan - April 4, 2011

866. gingerly – April 4, 2011

Exactly.

879. Florencia - April 4, 2011

789

If you take what I say out of context, of course, it won’t sound good. Have you read all or just what you needed to make a witty retort? If you read carefully that was a comparison in order to make my point.
Simple scientist thinking.
If you demostrate A with B.
Then with B you can also demostrate C.
If you say that with some flirty scenes S/U is canon.
Then also with even more flirty scenes you can say that K/S is even more canon.
I exagerated in order to clarify my point, however I think that it didn’t work with you.

813

Yeah, I know. And I’m not happy about it. But I was talking about canon in TOS.
Just for the ones who defend Reboot S/U taking as defense that S/U was TOS canon.
I only wish the movie in general would have stick with more to TOS. If you read my previous comment (483) you’ll understand me more that it wasn’t just S/U what bothered me.

880. Florencia - April 4, 2011

Sorry it was 462 not 483.

881. Trek Nerd Central - April 4, 2011

Mr. Orci, have you seen “Source Code”? Because it showcases a distinctly Orcian view of splintered timelines and quantum mechanics. I thought for a sec I was watching “Star Trek.”

882. Bucky - April 4, 2011

^ Yeah, everybody reading this sentence stop reading this sentence and go see Source Code right freakin now.

883. The hyper pine tree - April 4, 2011

I know it’s a nit-pick but bad-grammar Spock kinda jarred me out of the movie. At one point Spock is talking with his mother and says “may I ASK a query?”.

It’s “may I MAKE a query” or “may I ASK a question”. Asking a query is just bad grammar.

It really pulls me out of the movie when Spock, who is supposed to be this hyper-intellectual makes a grammatical blunder like that.

Oh, that and the loose science about the nova being able to destroy the entire galaxy. Also, why the heck was Nero even mad a Spock when Spock seemed to the be only one interested in actually DOING anything to help Romulus.

Lastly, how the heck could the nova destroy Romulus without hitting Spock’s ship first when Spock was heading toward the nova-wave after leaving Romulus? And there was some silly throw-away line by Spock like “then…the unimaginable happened”….uh….unimaginable? Did he not KNOW the nova-wave was heading toward their planet? Surely the fact that it could have destroyed Romulus was imaginable, as Spock was taking measures to stop just such a catastrophe.

So I guess it’s the just needlessly sloppy writing / science that bugs me. These things could have been fixed so easily. Otherwise they just seem dumbed down.

884. braxus - April 4, 2011

I for one would like pacing to slow down for a few moments in the film to take a breather and enjoy what you’ve just seen. Sort of like those slow moving majestic shots of the Enterprise where we can get a good look at her. Time to reflect on things- that sort of thing. It can’t all be super fast pacing beginning to end.

885. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@873

I should say plausible within the established framework of the universe created for the story. :)

886. gingerly - April 4, 2011

@877

Ah, I scrolled back to see what you mean. MJ has been posting here for a long time. He’s not an S/U shipper. In fact, we’ve bumped heads on few topics. :)

Though he has no problem with S/U being in the movie. I think he sees happy for Spock, haha.

However, he has seen the same things I’ve mentioned come up time and time again in threads, and he was and I think he is still is pretty appalled by the hateful comments.

He didn’t actually call you elitist, just your point of view. Dictionary.com says elitism is “consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group”.

It has been suggested multiple times in this thread and others that to break-up S/U is the right or “favored” point of view.

That’s not exactly an attack on the same level as calling a character or actor a bitch or a whore.

887. FarStrider - April 4, 2011

@879. We all have seen TOS countless times, some of us saw it when there were only 4 stations on TV. . .most of us own the dvds, we’ve been there, we’ve done that (countless times). . . if you want TOS, no one is stopping you from watching TOS. . .however, some of us DO actually want to see something new with the characters, and understand that that was the whole point of the reboot. . . to take familiar characters in new directions. . .personally, I, for one, am happy that Orci, Kurtzman, et al decided to go the ensemble route instead of Kirk, Spock, third-wheel-McCoy, and the rest. I, for one, am glad for 21st century storytelling. . .as the song “Politics in Space” says, ‘The 60s were 50 years ago, ya know — Get Over It!’

~FS

888. Bryan Harris - April 4, 2011

I agree with FarStrider; I love TOS, but it’s practically tattooed on the inside of my eyelids. The opportunity to see the TOS characters in stories that may be very different is a tantalizing opportunity that’s worth having an open mind for (especially with as strong a cast as the ST ’09 gang).

889. Keachick - April 4, 2011

Why must people always refer to Starfleet as military? Why would/should it be, given Star Trek is taking place 200 years from now in a more positive and optimistic environment? It is not a military organisation. The fleet has weapons in order to defend itself, but it is only meant to a quasi-military organisation at best. I have always understood the Starfleet organisation as a civilian, where heirarchy and discipline is LOOSELY modelled on military code. It is not like any organisation known to be on earth today. It is a combination and the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

I never saw Kirk as being military, but that would not mean that he does not know how to fight or about strategy. I always remember Kirk repeating the words, “peaceful exploration”, “peaceful mission”…That, for me, is TOS, which is what really should be the major guiding source for this series of films. Be different from all the other movies being made at the moment. PLEASE!!!

One of the things I really disliked (hated even) was what they did with the movies from TWOK onwards. I cried (literally, truly – what had they done?) The producers/writers gave Starfleet a more militaristic look and feel. They even had all the characters wear these (blood) red uniforms and then there was TUC – all warmongering and militaristic. So not TOS! Now we have a bloody armada. For the love of God -enough already.

PLEASE – Less militarism and have the uniforms to reflect that. The TOS uniforms, colour and design, were always the best.

890. Capes - April 4, 2011

To Bob Orci….

A Casey Kasem long distance dedication……

Dear Casey,

Bob Orci has ignored my feeble attempts to get his attention and respond to my posts. Casey…this distresses me to no end. Casey can you have Bob Orci just say “Hi Capes”

Sincerely,

Ignored in NC….

891. Capes - April 4, 2011

You know……this thousand will be much easier to reach than earlier this year when we were abandoned by our Imperious Leader Anthony Pascale…..

892. Paige - April 4, 2011

#886: No, but it was perceived by me as a personal attack, which yes, now that I have more of the history, I can understand the defensiveness displayed here. That doesn’t mean I wasn’t, naturally, upset by it.

He/she’s whole quote was ‘elitism rears it ugly head’ implying negative connotations with his/her use of ‘elitism’, regardless of the textbook definition. Keep in mind that I have no history here prior to the poll. I was not privy to the derogatory comments attacking characters and the actresses/actors who play them in the past. When I made my statements of what I disliked in ST11 and what I wanted to see in ST12 it was just that, my answering the question posed by the poll and throwing my two cents into the fray, period. I had no agenda other than ‘hey, a script writer posts here and reads comments? How cool is that?! Maybe he’ll read what I have to say.’ To me it felt like the poster who used the term ‘elitism’ (and others) were trying to invalidate my opinion because it differed from their own. Like anyone who didn’t ship S/U was either a K/S shipper or someone non-adaptable to the new timeline and thus should be dismissed as their perspective obviously didn’t hold any merit. Which, admittedly, didn’t sit well with me.

To be honest, I was taken off gaurd by the sheer magnitude of the hostility here, of how deep it runs, on both sides. But, like I said, I don’t have the whole story. I have exactly what I’ve seen these past two days.

Do I think that anyone has the right to call a character and/or actress/actor a derogatory name? Absolutely not. In fact, such behavior is appalling. I don’t disagree with you there at all.

But, well, I also feel the need to point out that just because someone doesn’t ship Spock and Uhura doesn’t mean they’re automatically the bad guy with an agenda of any sort. Some people aren’t shippers at all.

I liked ST11 very much. I saw it three times in the theater and bought the bluray the day it came out. Just because I like my trio of manly explorers bonding like brothers and taking the universe by storm doesn’t mean I hate Uhura, it also doesn’t mean I want to see Kirk and Spock making-out, nor does it mean that I feel they must get rid of S/U or I wont go see the next movie (why would I deprive myself of a Star Trek film? I even paid to see ‘Nemesis’ in the theater and that movie was… disappointing). Simply put, I like Star Trek, but that doesn’t mean I have to like all aspects of it. It just means, simply, that I have my preference and a romance isn’t it. And to be fair, I don’t want Kirk or McCoy in romance either. You know, to be equal opportunity about the whole thing. I want more shoreleave campfire scenes, philosophical discussions, and ‘brothers-in-arms’ kick ass action sequences. That is my wish for ST12.

893. Keachick - April 4, 2011

Perhaps I am not up with American politics nor American presidents but I don’t see why Kirk is compared to JFK, Bush and Obama. This may mean something to the writer and many Americans, but to many outsiders, it means little. Star Trek has an INTERNATIONAL audience, always has had. It may not be as large as the US one, but if you guys (the Robot Team) do it right, Star Trek may gain even more overseas fans.

Did these presidents have criminal records? I don’t get the comparison nor do I like it. It is not respectful to the James Kirk character…Kirk is, first of all, an explorer in Star Trek, not a politician.

It would appear that the “genius-level repeat offender” Kirk might have a record or two, but I hardly think it would have been for anything too serious and given his age etc, Pike would have had it expunged. You don’t waste genius. I mean, that is a no-brainer, surely.

894. reb - April 4, 2011

What I absolutely most want to see in next ST film– Capt. April’s beagle appearing in the transporter room.

895. reb - April 4, 2011

#892 Kirk has a criminal record?

896. boborci - April 4, 2011

Hi, CAPES!

897. Vultan - April 4, 2011

#889

Yearning for the return of the space hippies, are we?

;D

Hate to burst your little peacenik bubble, but military isn’t always a negative. Take for instance the humanitarian mission the US Navy is currently engaged in off the coasts of Japan.

However, I do agree Trek doesn’t need militaristic stories full of phaser shoot ‘em ups and ‘splosions to give us something meaningful—and to be successful at the box office. Case in point: The Voyage Home. Despite the crew being back in those blood-red uniforms [gasp!] at the end of the movie, they did get the job done and save humanity—and the whales—without firing a shot.

Okay, okay, so Kirk did melt the lock…. but that doesn’t really count, does it?

898. Red Dead Ryan - April 4, 2011

893.
…….

I think you’re thinking of Captain ARCHER’s beagle. Capt. April didn’t have a dog, at least as far as I know…..

892.
…….

Keachick, I really enjoy reading your posts. They’re always well thought out and supported by the facts! Don’t stop posting!

899. Phil - April 4, 2011

892. Keachick – April 4, 2011

Mr. Orci was comparing the rapid rise of a yooung and inexperienced Kirk to the rapid rise of the young and/or inexperienced Kennedy/Bush/Obama to the office of the Presidency. Several people have taken exception to this comparison (myself included) because while its not uncommon for inexperienced people to be elected to office, it’s virtually impossible for an inexperienced cadet to leap in rank to flag command.

900. Vultan - April 4, 2011

#892

The Kirk/US Presidents comparison had nothing to do with criminal records. It was about rising to a position of leadership.

901. reb - April 4, 2011

Yes, thank you, #897

What I most want to see is Capt. Archer’s beagle reappearing in the Enterprise’s transporter room.

I’d also like to see Capt. Archer appear to claim him.

902. Red Dead Ryan - April 4, 2011

Also, unlike Kennedy and Obama, Bush was governor of a state (Texas).

903. Harry Ballz - April 4, 2011

Bob

general query, nothing to do with the Trek script. How does it feel for you, as a writer, when after all the hard work, to finally finish the final draft for a script?

When you finally type:

FADE OUT

THE END

….and you know you’ve finished it.

I think your fans here would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

904. Vultan - April 4, 2011

As an American, I don’t mind at all if Trek wants to be all-inclusive when it comes to Earth cultures. In fact, I encourage it.

But the simple fact is that any movie produced in the US is going to be slightly more American-centric, no matter its guiding principles. It’s the same reason the time-traveling alien Doctor Who is still soooo British.

905. reb - April 4, 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Decatur

born 1779

Given command of the brig Argus in 1803, he took it to the Mediterranean for service in the First Barbary War against Tripoli. Once in the combat zone, Lieutenant Decatur commanded the schooner Enterprise and, on 23 December 1803, captured the enemy ketch Mastico. That vessel, taken into the U.S. Navy under the name Intrepid, was used by Decatur on 16 February 1804 to execute a night raid into Tripoli harbor to destroy the U.S. frigate Philadelphia, which had been captured after running aground at the end of October 1803. Admiral Lord Nelson is said to have called this “the most bold and daring act of the Age”.

This daring and extremely successful operation made Lieutenant Decatur an immediate national hero, a status that was enhanced by his courageous conduct during 3 August 1804 bombardment of Tripoli. In that action, he led his men in hand-to-hand fighting while boarding and capturing an enemy gunboat. Decatur was subsequently promoted to the rank of captain, and over the next eight years had command of several frigates.

906. Jefferies Tuber - April 4, 2011

I actually voted for perfect as-is, because none of those complaints are my own. I am concerned about the Spock-Uhura romance raising as many complaints as the engineering set. What the heck is that all about? Is is an objection to the relationship, or to the way Uhura appears to manipulate Spock and indirectly delay his departure to Vulcan?

Anyway, the thing I didn’t like about the first movie was the direction of Leonard Nimoy. So this is technically a JJ issue. I thought Nimoy’s performance was terrible. He rushed through every line of dialog and only rarely spoke with the magnanimity I was expecting. From one point of view, Nimoy had to be a part of a much faster-paced movie than he’s ever been a part of as Spock. But still, the movie was really short. JJ should have given Nimoy the direction to let him play Spock with patience and gravitas. In other words, he should not have rushed Nimoy. It makes me wince every time I see the ice cave scene with Kirk and, to a lesser extent, when Spock confronts his younger self.

907. reb - April 4, 2011

Decatur

He was the youngest man to reach the rank of captain in the history of the United States Navy, and the first American celebrated as a national military hero who had not played a role in the American Revolution.

908. Vultan - April 4, 2011

#904

I’d read somewhere Decatur was promoted to captain before he commanded Enterprise, but it doesn’t matter, I guess. He was still the youngest captain (25), though it seems he was much more seasoned when he took command than a certain Captain Kid in question.

909. reb - April 4, 2011

To me Decatur resembles in real life our ideal of Kirk.

910. Vultan - April 4, 2011

#908

Me too. But didn’t Roddenberry cite the fictional Hornblower as a model for Kirk… and later Picard?

911. Phil - April 4, 2011

889. Keachick – April 4, 2011

Starfleet was always defined as quasi-military. If the direct comparision to the Navy bothers you, think of it as the Coast Guard. If the Federation saw the need for a self defense force, then it’s going to need to operate at a level that any potential advasery would operate at…a military level. Somehow, asking the science vessel to float on over to sector one to ask the invading Klingons if they would be nice enough to go home is just offering up a ship for target practice. While I hope I’m wrong, I suspect that freedom in the future will need to be defended from tyrrany, just as it is now.

Just what is it with you and uniformed service, anyway?

912. Red Dead Ryan - April 4, 2011

909.
…….

Yes he did. As well as for Robert April.

And James Cook was also an inspiration as well, I believe. He mapped the area I live in (Vancouver Island) and a statue of his likeness is in the harbor of my city Victoria. He commanded the Resolution, Discovery and Endeavor. But, on a trip to Hawaii, he was killed by the natives and, according to legend, his body was thrown into lava pool. He’s remembered as one of the more respected and intelligent sailors.

913. reb - April 4, 2011

909. Vultan – April 4, 2011

Yup! Hornblower it was! But then Gene didn’t have Wikipedia. :D

914. Bryan Harris - April 4, 2011

In the poll, I voted for “Little Nero backstory/understanding”. I recognize that the movie had a lot of targets to hit, and if the choice had to be made, it was most important to cement the regulars, but it’s unfortunate that there wasn’t believed to be enough time to nail down Nero’s backstory as detailed in STAR TREK: COUNTDOWN, because it would have lent nuance to the film (I don’t begrudge people who say it’s a flaw of the film, because to do otherwise is to, quite frankly, descend into TMP apologism, where the novelization/some draft of the script/some memo of Gene’s is used to paper over elements that aren’t very strong in the finished film).

For that reason, I’m hoping that STAR TREK 2 is longer, so more time can be lavished on all the characters, including the antagonist(s).

915. clar - April 4, 2011

One thing was made very clear in the first Star Trek movie by Orci this team of writers; the actions of Spock Prime (or whatever name he has been tagged with) created an alternate universe. The only constant in this alternate universe is that the seven members of the command crew all ended up where they needed to be, the Enterprise. The paths they took to get there was not the same as the characters from TOS or the subsequent movies.
I don’t think Orci and the others writers could have made that any clearer. Young Spock kicking his classmates a**. Clue. Young Kirk driving a vintage corvette over a cliff. Clue. Cadet Uhura strutting through a bar like she owns the place, belting shots of Jack and flirting with a sexy stranger. Clue. McCoy drunk on the new recruits’ shuttle. Clue. Scotty exiled on Delta Vega. Clue. The Narada and that crew of mad Romulans killing Kirk’s father in the first ten minutes of the movie. Clue. All but screamed this is not the Enterprise Crew of the past. Then there is Uhura actually saying it’s an alternate universe and Spock agreeing.
So why are so many fans here expecting things to be the same? I’ve been a fan probably longer than a lot of people here have been alive. I watched it with my dad. He was a HUGE Uhura fan. And you know what? I liked the movie. I like almost everything about it. Yes, even Spock and Uhura. I liked the unexpected aspect of them. My dad would have loved that. Why the need to tear apart every aspect of the film and make it into something it clearly was not supposed to be? My father’s Star Trek.
My only nit picks. The Enterprise’s bridge and positioning of the crew. When Kirk looks over his right shoulder he sees Spock at the Science station, when he looks over his left shoulder he sees Uhura at the Communications console. Some things you just don’t mess with even in an Alternate Universe. When Uhura falls out of her seat, Spock is right there to pick her up. LOL. Now that is Canon! Then there were all those extras. Who were all those people on the bridge and what were their jobs.? And lastly why did Uhura have all that hair hanging down to her a**? Really!
But you know what I still enjoyed the movie. So while I appreciate Orci caring what the Fandom of Trek thinks. I hope he does what every good writer does, ignore the wank and writes the best script he and his team can

916. reb - April 4, 2011

Well said #914. clar – April 4, 2011

917. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - April 4, 2011

Star Trek: Back Into The Breach

918. Red Dead Ryan - April 4, 2011

917.
……..

Or “Star Trek: Once More Unto The Breach…”

919. Steve Boler - April 4, 2011

Star Trek 2009 got better reviews than any Star Trek movie ever, and they did it all without our opinions. I say they should stop reading these comments, and go with their gut instinct. How else are we going to get something new and fresh and unpredictable? The fact that the team aren’t fanboys saved the franchise.

That being said, the brewery was brilliant! Gave the 1701 the feeling of a navy ship, and made it seem grand.

920. captain_neill - April 4, 2011

Hi Bob

Sorry I have been critical of changes but one thing I am happy with is your willingness to listen to the fans

it is much appreciated.

921. captain_neill - April 5, 2011

Although I was never happy with the destruction of Vulcan in this new universe, I do think it was a ballsy descison.

It would probably be a good point to explore the repurcussions of this to the Federation and to the Vulcan race.

919

I think the reason Star Trek XI got some of the better reviews is because its only that was not geared towards us fans, it was geared more towards a new audience who had never seen Trek before BUT at the same time created a parallel universe and ut in some winks and nods for us fans.

Is Star Trek XI aperfect move? No, but its a good fun movie that makes Trek relevant again.

And I wish them luck with Star Trek XII

922. da laffin tlhIngan - April 5, 2011

There were mentions outside of the movie of Nero’s prison time on Rura Penthe, but all the Klingon stuff was cut from the movie.

Would have been nice to add, say, 2-5 minutes of exposition there, including at least one good fistfight with Klingon guards. Would have explained a smidge more about Nero’s character *and* made the KAG members happy. :)

923. Basement Blogger - April 5, 2011

@ 891 Capes; Where no Trekkers have gone before;

You know we boldly went where no Trekkers have gone before with that story from December. With that story we are currently at 2150 posts!

I have posed the question as to what would get more posts.

Bob Orci or pourn?

I say it’s pourn but some of you guys would rather talk to Bob. Oh, and sorry for the spelling of pourn. Can’t say that word. Can’t say heal_h insu_ance either. Still okay to cuss out Rick Berman. I keeed.

Record setting posts for TrekMovie story and probably for the Fringe alternate universe also.
http://trekmovie.com/2010/12/17/sci-fi-movies-friday-iron-man-3-the-avengers-gravity-tron-legacy-paul-potc-4-spider-man-musical-more/#comment-3341063

924. Harry Ballz - April 5, 2011

Aw, BB, that old thread was our hideaway. Everyone had forgotten about it.

Thanks for nuthin’!!!

925. Geoff S - April 5, 2011

I have been a huge fan of the series and love the direction of the new movie. It was clever way of not having to fit it in with current canon, and now allows for a much more opportunities to retell the story, with a much more liberal license. Now, it is sad to think that we don’t know what happens now with some of the stories we love so much, for me deep Space Nine and Data, but it is worth it to be able to still have new Star Trek, and to have it exciting again. The possibilities are endless.
I did think engineering looked unorganized and confusing, and just found out that they used a brewery, so it would be nice to somehow have remodeled.
I also loved the Spock/Uhura thing- There were hints of a relationship between them before, so maybe this is before they broke up, or in this alternate universe it became more. I like the comment said earlier how this alternate universe means that do to different circumstances happening, they aren’t exactly the same people.
I’m looking forward to the next one

926. Iva - April 5, 2011

Funny thing, this, even with Uhura herself letting us know that Spock does not even consider her a friend in any way or shape, let alone anything more, there are still “TOS hinting a relationship” comments.
Must be a great thing, selective memory.

927. Aurore - April 5, 2011

335

Mr Orci,

Here are a few title suggestions.
Any ressemblance with any title already suggested, here or elsewhere, would be fortuitous.

(Star Trek) : Atonement.

: Enlightment.

: Renaissance.

: Dawn of A New Age.

: Trials And Revelations.

: The Vulcan Path.

: The Vulcan Pact.

If Klingons are involved:

(Star Trek) : If You Want It (Don’t) Put A Ridge On It ( O! O! O!).

: The (Half) Human Way.

: I Did It My Way.

Or, more emphatic:

(Star Trek) : I Did It!…Myyyyyyyyyy…Waaaaaaayyyyyyy.

(Star Trek) : I’D Like To Thank The Academy For This Award.

(Star Trek) : To Boldly Go Big Or Pitifully Go Home.

‘Hope this helped.

928. HubcapDave - April 5, 2011

“807. boborci – April 4, 2011

792. All of the examples you cited where time was overwritten and some characters kept their memories included an explanation of why that was the case, and/or some exotic magical tech was employed.

We cited no such thing, and our time travel device, a black hole, is a thing theoretically found in nature, so it falls into none if the examples you cited.

Still luv ya!
819. boborci – April 4, 2011

No, just following your logic using your examples.

In my view, the rules of quantum mechanics are the only rules applicable in my Trek. As I said before, as long as I’m around, there is no slingshotting around the sun, etc. There is no such thing as overwriting the timeline, and therefore technology protecting you from losing your memory is irrelevant.

In my opinion.”

Interesting. Although, recall that in “Tomorrow Is Yesterday”, (the episode where the slingshot maneuver was invented) the Enterprise found itself in the past due to hitting the gravity well of a black hole while at warp speed. Is it your contention, then, that Kirk, et.al. needn’t have worried about changing things, as they simply have created a new universe?

929. MisterJohnSparks - April 5, 2011

Wow there are a lot of comments on here. It seems that a (thankfully) small minority on here have pretty much already decided that Trek 2012 will be terrible. Just like they did with Trek 09, when that was in pre-production.

To those who fall into the above: You’re next comments will be incoherent shit and nothing’s going to change my mind!

(I’m only having a bit of fun. I honestly believe that sharing your gripes is healthy.)

Anyway, Trek 2012 If not “The USS Enterprise” then what about “The Starship Enterprise”? That’s good.

“The Starship Enterprise – In theatres June 2012″

930. Opinionated Me - April 5, 2011

First thing’s first; I loved the movie! The action, the new, fresh feel to our favorite characters, the break from canon, special effects that make the Star Trek universe shine and come to life, … The list goes on. I still remember the goose bumps I got in the cinema at the imagery of Nero’s ship looming over the tiny USS Kelvin and the escape vessels, drowning against the vast backdrop of space. And that was just the beginning! The best film of 2009 by far, and I’ve got my Blu-ray copy on stand-by for whenever the fancy strikes.

As for the list of petpeeves. Only one really jumped out at me, and that’s the Spock/Uhura romance, for reasons of characterization. I loved how all the characters were reinterpreted, every single one refreshing and great. Yes, even Kirk’s new interpretation was great and more than palatable, any change perfectly justified by his changed childhood. But, oddly, the changes in Uhura’s persona were the most striking to me.

I’ve read comments above stating how Uhura running away from her post and being a ‘good little the girlfriend’ clashed with the strong, determined and professional TOS image of her. I disagree. If anything, I think she’s coming across as a much stronger woman than before, much more outspoken and direct, which I greatly appreciate! In TOS she seems to serve more as a feminine element in the crew, soft and graceful with her singing, even needing protection at times. I’m referring for instance to her literally stating she’s afraid when on the bridge, with big doe-eyes. (Forgive me for not remembering the exact episode, as I’m not that religious a TOS scholar) The new Uhura to me is much more feisty and interesting than the rather flat TOS characterziation; she’s actually standing her ground and shining besides her male collegues rather than shrinking away in their shadows. Fans becrying her running away from her post (for only a brief moment, really) as unprofessional should consider how unprofessional Kirk and Spock are behaving at times in this movie. (I’d say marooning your first officer in time of crisis is far worse than leaving your post for all of a few minutes to comfort someone you love whose PLANET JUST EXPLODED)

My reasons for being a bit put off by the Uhura/Spock thing lies not with Uhura, but with Spock. First off, he’s betroathed to T’Pring last time I checkced. Yes yes, she has most likely perished with Vulcan, but Spock began his relationship with Uhura prior to T’Pring’s possible death. As I understand it, betroathal and marriage with your bonded is more than a heavily culturally imbedded aspect of Vulcan ways, it’s a bioligical necessity. Basically, Spock is two-timing and ignoring very strong cultural imperatives forced on him by his heritage.

Okay, yes, Spock is a rebel, but that’s concerning his choices in studies and career. For him to be equally rebellious in matters of love and relationships, I think is far too soon. This Spock is still very young, so why would he be able to allow himself such emotional weakness when even the much older TOS Spock hadn’t emotionally grown enough for such a thing? Even when sprayed with “happy spores” and experiencing blissful love with a woman in TOS, he chooses to abandon this love the moment he sobers up, in favor of professional behavior and his duties, however reluctant. Also, he’s Uhura’s teacher and superior. Fraternization within a military establishment should only offer added ‘logical’ reasoning for him to desist from such a relationship.

And lastly, the romance between Uhura and Spock would have been slightly more believable if they hadn’t been making out on that transporter platform. Say that Spock was rebellious enough to ignore his betroathed T’Pring and rules against fraternization, and is accepting enough of his human side to indulge in a romantic relationship, I imagine Vulcan courting the be much more subtle than making out in public. For a Vulcan that’s almost obscene, no? A Vulcan kiss of the fingers in a secluded place would’ve been more likely, rather than such openly displayed intimacy, a few feet away from his Captain…

If anything, it’s probably the timing that’s just off. Spock/Uhura would’ve made more sense *after* the events of this movie: after Vulcan is destroyed and the death of T’Pring, along with the near extinction of the very society that pressed Spock into denying his feelings; after Spock has incentive to come to terms with his human side and emotions, Earth being the only home he has left; after him meeting Spock Prime and seeing that rigorous suppression of emotions isn’t the only path for him; after his father admitting to having loved his mother.

It just feels forced, crammed into the movie for the sake of having some romance in there. Perhaps it was done for reasons of symmetry, to balance out Kirk’s casual flirting with Spock’s serious love interest; perhaps it was to appeal to people new to Star Trek; perhaps other reasons. Either way, it didn’t work for me.

But, there are fans out there who are cheering on this development, so yeah, can’t please everyone, huh? Especially with us Star Trek fans being more than opinionated and damned difficult ingrates. :) And it’s not like this development can be undone in the next movie. That would just be even weirder, and clumsy, I suppose (unless lots of time passed between the stories of the two movies). So I basically came to the conclusion that my rant above is useless…

As for the other petpeeves listed, I suppose the rapid promotions are indeed rather rapid. Perhaps this could be justified by casualties the Starfleet suffered during Nero’s attack, but still. And engineering indeed did look a bit factory/refinery like, even though I didn’t know at the time I was looking at a brewery. I didn’t look very spaceship like (Where are all the panels, cables, wiring and space looking gizmo’s – Nero’s ship sure had lots of that going on – and where’s the Dilithium powered warp core ???), but I’m no expert so I just took it in stride and enjoyed watching Scotty doing his thing amidst a scenery of pipes, pipes and some more pipes. I did like the feel of scope it gave, that feeling of them being inside a huge space ship.

As for those bitching about lack of Nero background; a movie can only be so long and choices need to be made. If I’m to watch someone’s story, I’d much rather watch the story of my favorite triumvirate ever: Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Yes, Nero is a plot device, which is just fine by me. I enjoyed his character and the amount of screening time he was granted. Any more Nero scenes and it would have been out of proportion.

Aaaah, how I look forward to the new movie!!! I’m so curious to see the changes that were made, and even more curious to know what the story will be about! I can’t wait. Make a movie just as great as Star Trek 2009 and I’ll be one happy girl. And now I shall stop this rant that no one will probably read anyways :)

P.S: Don’t change the humor. I loved it, a lot.

931. rtrj - April 5, 2011

929. “The Starship Enterprise – In theaters June 2012″

Hmmm, Now that is a really strong title! Bold!

932. bennybaby - April 5, 2011

I hate the continued belief on this forum that if you don’t care for the Spock/Uhura pairing it must mean that you are either a K/S slasher or a rabid racist to therefore you can’t be taken seriously. Well I am neither of these things. The pairing makes no sense to me because of the way it is presented to in the film.

The film starts by showing parallels between the lives of Spock and Kirk. And the scene between Uhura and Spock in the hanger parallels the scene with Kirk and Gaila. Both relationships have hit problems – Kirk’s because he does not feel worthy of love and Spock’s because of his struggle to find a balance between emotion and logic. That struggle is further illustrated by the scene in the turbolift. Spock is wrestling with his emotions but still determined not to give in to them. Uhura has no idea what to do to help him and so offers comfort but, according to Spock Prime, this is not what he needs. He needs to be forced to face the fact that he is emotionally compromised. That task falls to Kirk who has already had his own emotional epiphany thanks to the mind meld with Spock Prime and, as a result, is far more confident and focussed than before. In the transporter room Spock freely kisses Uhura in front of others suggesting he is now more comfortable about expressing his emotions but as she was not responsible for, or involved with his acceptance of his emotional side and he still does not tell her how he feels how significant is it? Indeed, once back on Earth, he again places duty and logic before his relationship with Uhura by preparing to quit Starfleet and join what is left of his race. In the scene in the hanger dock which mirrors the earlier scene with Uhura, Spock Prime tells him to do what feels right but this alludes to a future defining friendship with Kirk rather than his current relationship with Uhura. Tellingly, Spock does not ask his counterpart if he too was involved with the Uhura of his time. In fact no mention is made of her at all. Meanwhile Uhura has seemingly accepted Spock’s decision to leave just as she accepted his refusal to acknowledge his emotions but Kirk has left the position of first officer open suggesting that, despite the fact they are relative strangers, he has a greater understanding of and need of Spock than she does.

I was actually looking forward to seeing how this romance panned out and I was disappointed to see that it was simply used as a device to show us how connected Spock and Kirk are and will be. If that is the case I would prefer to see the relationship shelved and a bigger attempt made to give Uhura something sensible to do where she can demonstrate her skills and prove that she is indeed entitled to her position on the ship.

933. Weerd1 - April 5, 2011

@Anthony, @Boborci and others:
I think the major difference from a time travel perspective here is unlike other examples of chronal displacement in Trek you have two separate entities who leave time from the same origin point, but arrive at different points in the past. The question is not whether or not Nero creates a divergent reality versus overwriting an existing reality; we know he does a la “Parallels.” The question is why Spock lands in the divergent reality instead of the Prime timeline. Perhaps some chronal link is created since they shared the black hole? I assert Nero went back further because his ship had more mass, blaa blaa mass connection to gravity, etc. Besides the temporal gods of fiction ensuring the movie happens, when draws the Jellyfish into the new reality?

934. Jack - April 5, 2011

Can’t sleep and am looking at old reviews, and noted this (which gripes about a “grafted on” Spock/Uhura romance,” a view which would be, it seems, unpopular here) from la weekly…

“When you return for the inevitable sequel, don’t worry so much about placating the fanboys and instead set your word processors to stun.”

Hear, hear. ;).

935. Christopher Roberts - April 5, 2011

BOB, if you’re still lurking around here… please check out 641. & 650.

Difficult I know with some many pro- and anti- Uhura Spock posts!

936. P Technobabble - April 5, 2011

Right along I have been a strong proponent that getting too wrapped up in nit-picky details can spoil one’s ability to simple enjoy the film. For me the most important thing is that Trek09 was an absolutely FUN movie, a terrific ride! What’s better than that?

937. P Technobabble - April 5, 2011

936.

“… SIMPLY enjoy the film… (not simple)…”

write and spell I can…

938. cazza - April 5, 2011

@934

If not for those fan boys and girls there would be no new movie coming next year. Back in the sixties Paramount had washed its hands of the series and it was only the continued interest of fanboys who organised conventions and lobbied hard for a new series that persuaded them to invest in a motion picture. The rest as they say is history. So yeah, let’s pretend the opinions of those fanboys and girls don’t matter and instead let’s rely on the opinions of the cinema going public who have shown time and time again just how fickle they can be especially about a sci fi franchise they are not particularly invested in.

BTW both Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzmann have described themselves as fanboys.

939. Marklar - April 5, 2011

I’m probably late in the game, but how about Star Trek: Strange New World(s)? Could be used as a singular or plural form, whichever sounds better to you guys. Sets the tone for a sequel and a play on words that invokes a sense of newness to the franchise.

Thank you Bob Orci for listening to the fans, if you’re still reading these 930+ posts. :)

940. Aurore - April 5, 2011

Correction; in 927 :

Enlightment = Enlightenment.

941. jas_montreal - April 5, 2011

the only thing i wanna say is that….

Bob, please make the star trek sequel feel MORE like Battlestar Galactica.

942. RAMA - April 5, 2011

Ehhh…WHO NEEDS paint and wood anymore?? Make engineering a virtual set. C’mon guys, let’s get imaginative.

943. RAMA - April 5, 2011

940…..Oh HELLL no!!!

944. Jules - April 5, 2011

Something I’d like to see in the next movie — a scene with emotional interactions that could include much of the crew, but not tied to a near-disaster or a villainous encounter.

Say it’s Kirk’s birthday. In the alternate universe, that day has to have been a letdown for his entire life, so there are a myriad of possibilities. Kirk’s drinking himself into a coma, remembering his crappy childhood and how his mother couldn’t even look at him; the crew throws him a surprise party that either goes well or is an epic fail; Kirk ignores the day until Bones makes him acknowledge it (could reference the birthday scene in Wrath of Khan)…anyway, I’m sure Mr. Orci gets the idea.

945. Amal Kotay - April 5, 2011

Is it possible to vote for EVERYTHING? (I guess not)

I picked “Coincidence Meetings,” simply because the entire plot is nothing more but coincidences.

And then there’s Spock/Uhura. And then there’s the lens flares. And the camera shaking. And then there’s the entire bit that the new Enterprise looks more advanced than Voyager’s Endgame – the scenes on the 29th century. And a lot others that currently escape me.

PS: If the sequel team is reading ALL these comments, they’re awesome.

946. doyouwannadance - April 5, 2011

Good God, 1,000 posts. I hope Bob Orci’s eyeballs haven’t fallen out reading these.

Anyhoo, I didn’t have a problem with the movie as it was shown in the theaters. I would have appreciated a complete extended version on Blu-Ray for the seasoned Trek fans who wouldn’t mind every extra sequence that might have been cut out to “dumb down” for the Hollywood execs, movie critics, and the non-Trekkies alike.

947. Kinooruen - April 5, 2011

“overall lack of dignity” would be my pick, it were a pick.
that and timeline… I think the only reason why the Kelvin & crew looked nothing like anything in TOS/prime’s past ca 2233 (Kirk’s birth year) is that the Narada arrival isn’t where the NuTrek-iverse diverged from Prime. So, I blame the TNG crew for meddling in the past in First Contact. Heck, I can even blame that for creating a timeline where the Enterprise series exists.

948. VZX - April 5, 2011

Is there a limit to how many posts a thread on this site can hold? I wonder what the record is.

I know this is Trek site, but I got a gripe about another Orci production: Transformers. I know it has tons of faults, but two things always bother me when I watch it (yes, I do like the movie overall)
1) After the kids are rescued from the sector 7 guys by the Autobots, one of the agents made a call for backup. Why wouldn’t sophisticated robots be able to detect a simple radio signal from the humans? And, when the helicopters come, how come Optimus doesn’t just transform and drive with the kids away? They are supposed to be robots in disguise.
2) Why does Sam have to be the one to carry the allspark cube to the building in the final battle? Why not just give to Ironhide and let him drive it away to meet the helicopter or something?

949. gingerly - April 5, 2011

@892

Well, now that you do have an idea of some history here, you understand why he was on edge.

Having been here over two years, and hearing far worse things from the get-go, I didn’t really get to the level of defensiveness that you are at until months down the road.

So, I’m saying, if I could tread lightly and not take far worse comments as badly as you did until months down the road, then so can you.

Tact means that when you step into the middle of situation as a newbie, listening and gaining context for the reasons why people may react a certain way. …Why when they hear similar things come from you as the crazies, that they might also assume that the same worse things will also come from you…

So, knowing this, you have to word things carefully, and work that much harder to distance yourself from that perspective.

And I’m sorry to say, you haven’t really done that so far.

You came in, as newbie, not understanding context, but demanding that people adjust and cater to you on a topic and perspective that has been, for the most part coming from an extremely negative and hurtful place here.

Honestly, though sometimes extreme, and cringe-worthy in it’s expression, hate has not been in the equation for the people who don’t care, the S/U shippers, nor the old-school Trekkies who have dropped by expressing shock and puzzlement over why this even bothers people so much.

So, maybe you should either hang back and see what we really are about and/or check some of the old back topics, so you can understand why he might rightly ascribe the POV that there is something inherently wrong with S/U being together as part and parcel of a form of elitism (and other far more troubling sentiments) on these boards.

There are plenty of people who have been here for as long and longer than I have, who even despise S/U, but get along fine here, because they respect the fact that the negative sentiments for this particular aspect do often come from dubious places.

They tread in such a way that doesn’t ally themselves with those places.

Seriously, do a google search. Read up and let your guard down, if you really intend to hang out here beyond this topic.

There is plenty to discuss and see about us, other than a topic that has been tread to death.

950. Hermioni - April 5, 2011

Reporting my own perceptions as an individual audience member, I did/do experience a few moments of irritation during the viewing(s) of Star Trek 09, but, in most cases they were/are not tied to any of the subjects listed on Anthony ´s poll.

Some of these instances do not relate to the writers´ work at all, instead they grow out of my personal disconnect with certain trends in contemporary movie acting and with Mr. Urban´s, Mr. Pine´s and particularly Mr. Quinto´s specific interpretations of their respective characters.

Concerning ST09´s narrative construction, I have come to realize that my steadily growing, general impatience with what I regard as frequent misapplications and/or overuse of the revenge motive in US genre productions has certainly had an impact on my somewhat negative response to various aspects of Nero´s (and New Spock´s) characterization.

And if I may, I would like to add one more observation.
Personally, I feel that, on occasion, the filmmakers´ need to protect the picture´s highly energetic, very rapid audio-visual mode of story-telling and their impetus to preserve its densely compressed narrative style might have resulted in a overly lean, quasi-stenographic rendering of certain narrational elements. In particular, I am thinking of the decision to cut out the scene depicting Child Kirk´s interactions with his older brother and his uncle /stepfather. Without access to a properly sequenced cut of this film segment, of course I cannot truly judge, but I am not sure if the gains in narrative momentum created by the removal of this scene really outweigh the loss of both, a chance to potentially increase the audience´s empathy for New Kirk and an opportunity to further develop the picture´s underlying mentor theme.

951. Crystal - April 5, 2011

Yippee my turn! So here goes…..

I think with this alternate timeline it is perfectly acceptible for the S/U romance. Yes I know it didn’t happen in the TOS storyline but hey this ISN’T the TOS storyline this is the alternate universe storyline. Besides that it is common for us young folks to have a more emotional view and to be brought to emotion far easier than we are as we get older. Perhaps in this new universe Spock is still struggling with maintaining his Vulcan composure? Regardless it was ALWAYS acceptible for Kirk to get laid in TOS why not Spock have a go!

I also like knowing more about Uhura. She was always one of my favorites because she was a cool strong chick that was on the Bridge of an obviously male dominated Enterprise. I would love to see her take on a more active role.

I both agree and disagree with the person who said that Uhura should have assisted Spock in rescuing the Vulcan High Council. One the TOS in me saw that Uhura was less likely to be on an away team (Yes I know she did go sometimes but she was still less likely) So from a fan of TOS persective it would have been wrong to me. Plus she would have slowed Spock down. Second to have the emotional empathy towards Spock would not require her to be on the surface. She just watched Vulcan destroyed. I can honestly say that would effect any normal human being to know nearly an entire race has been destroyed like that! So her empathy towards Spock does not require a planet visit, just a view screen.

Ah the Engineering set. It does not look anything like a 23rd Century ship. Sad. Scotty and his Engineering area were always an enjoyable sequence. Let’s get that right. Others have covered that so I will let it be.

Now the bridge of the Enterprise. I understand we are reaching for a unique look but I was disappointed to not see all the nobs and buttons like the TOS Enterprise had. I was raised on the TOS episodes and became a TNG fan at 5 when the series came out. But This new bridge reminds me too much of a 24th century ship. Come on now has technology advanced that much further ahead in this alternate timeline that they got rid of the look and feel of the TOS Bridge. Perhaps this is my nitpicking.

The age of Kirk. You know what I liked the fact that Kirk was young. It gives a reason behind his rash and unorthodox decisions he has and will make! So I like it.

Oh and one more thing. PLEASE give Chris Doohan a more centralized role. I think it is a great legacy to have James Doohan’s son appear in the new Star Trek movie! Transporter Chief or something but give us more of him! You have a living legend in the Star Trek movie/TV world’s son here use him for more than background image!

I do love the movie and think it was wonderful and I am seriously needing a ST movie fix so let’s pick up the pace and get a new excellent movie out! I will be there!

952. verbotene - April 5, 2011

Spock Prime just happening to be in that cave.

Scotty being portrayed as a sandwich loving buffoon.

The entire ship design.

Kirk behaving like an immature teenager at 25.

Spock and Uhura romance which was pointless and lacking any kind of chemistry.

A really lame villain and no, those tattoos weren’t scary.

953. hunnykinney - April 5, 2011

If the S/U romance is going to continue in the next movie at least have it make sense. Show why they are together and what he can get from her that he cannot get from anyone else. That way the haters won’t have anything to whine about.

In the last movie they didn’t even have a proper conversation it was just kisses. Spock had more to say to Kirk and for most of the film they didn’t even like each other. Then at the end it looks like Spock only returns because of Kirk and not his girlfriend which made no sense. If the new film is going to be all about Spock and Kirk becoming friends then there is no point in Spock and Uhura being together because he won’t have anytime to spend with her.

Also can we get to see more of Kirk and Bones being friends?

954. dmduncan - April 5, 2011

824: “The evidence in the film itself can be reasonably interpreted either way by the viewer (even as I pointed out, Spock’s memories can be seen from either point of view). I did a poll on this at last year’s Star trek con and it was 50/50 on who thought the new timeline was parallel and who thought it overwrote the old one. Your call is the one that decides it in the end of course, and I actually agree with it and that is the way I saw it.”

Oh no you don’t!

Bob’s call is not what decides it. If you ask which explanation makes the most sense out of everything that happens in the movie, then the MWI answer is the best explanation. If, however, you want to be selective about what you recall from the movie, or if you don’t want to think about what the two Spock’s were talking about at the end, then you can think it was TOS rules.

The difference in those two points of view is that the first considers the WHOLE picture and the second considers PART of the picture.

It does not hinge on what Bob says in here about it as if that’s the only way to determine it and it’s 50/50 either way until he does.

It turns on the critical scene between the two Spocks in the end.

All the chips are on the table until then, and the dice haven’t come to rest. But when they do, the dice come up MWI, and the winner takes all.

And it’s because of that scene. If Spock Prime hadn’t mentioned false paradoxes, it would be a different story. But he did mention them.

955. Allenburch - April 5, 2011

Wow…I have not read through all of this but a quick scan seems to show that most of this thread is positive towards the next Trek.

What I would love to see today, since this is…HAPPY FIRST CONTACT DAY…is this:

All of us Trek Fans putting aside our petty differences and uniting in peace for the future of Star Trek.

…in other words…GO STAR TREK 2012 TEAM !!!!

956. Chadwick - April 5, 2011

I hope to hear the TMP/TFF/TNG theme music at some point in one of the next two movies, it has always been my favorite theme. It oozes feelings nobility and pride in something good…..

….Especially when the music is slowed to half time when Scotty is showing Kirk the Enterprise or at the end of TMP, the violins pulling across strings, trumpets and trombone blaring and the camera panning by the great bird that is the Enterprise, I have always been a sucker for that.

957. Harry Ballz - April 5, 2011

954.

Imagine if the Vulcans had landed here years earlier and met up with Rodney King who would have proclaimed, “can’t we all just get along?”

958. Trek Lady - April 5, 2011

Interesting. Looking back at the poll results it appears that (aside from the brewrey set, which I didn’t like but could pretty much ignore for the short time it was shown) my dislikes were pretty much on par with the majority of voters. Those things that concerned me seem to have concerned many others as well. Imagine!

The only thing NOT included that I would have addressed were the problematic issues of non-rational or reasonable science involved in some events – after all, there is a measure of “science” in science fiction. Maybe consulting with a few experts in their fields might help?

Overall, it appears that feelings about the film were positive – but tempered by various “nitpicks.” Also very similar to my reaction. Apparently, I am mainstream in Trekdom – wow. I think I might have to sit down now…

959. THX-1138 - April 5, 2011

OK, the NuTrek film was fun. But Orci isn’t here to get pats on the back. He has asked for assistance. So here I go:

The Enterprise is not bigger than a Galaxy Class ship. No way. That’s dumb. If you wanted to make the ship over 3 times bigger you should have just redesigned the whole thing. But you kept all the exterior dimensions like that of the TMP Enterprise. And that makes absolutley no sense. There were no visual cues in the movie that suggested it was that big. And no real reason for it to be so bloatedly enormous. It seems like either a mistake or a change just for the sake of change.

Engineering is dumb looking. There is nothing cool looking about a brewery. It is not a futuristic concept to have a 20th century manufacturing facility function as a faster than light engine room. The entire ship has a certain design concept that for some reason get’s thrown out the window in engineering. And it flies in the face of all the Trek that has come before it. I don’t buy the excuse that it was meant as a money saving conceit. With all the set extending technology that exists nowdays a partial engineering set could have been built and then extended with CG. Just as long as you keep the idea in mind that the ship isn’t the size of Rhode Island.

Destroying Vulcan was dumb. Why? Are you planning to fix this situation? Did you seriously put this in the movie just to give Kirk an excuse to piss off Spock and take command of the Enterprise? Wow. And now the fans are left with a universe with no Vulcan homeworld. If you thought that killing Kirk off in Generations was a bad idea I have got news for you: Trek fans might not call this the pride of your legacy.

I would have liked a REAL origins story and not an AU story. I am just not that invested personally in an Alternate Universe like I was in the Original timeline. But too bad for me I guess.

960. CJS - April 5, 2011

Star Trek 09 was the worst movie ever made, but it was absolutely perfect, except for the parts that I didn’t like, which really weren’t so bad but totally ruined the film.

I think I consolidated the 1,000 post thread into a single sentence.

Trek 09 was finished over 2 years ago. It’s too late to make changes or pretend it wasn’t what it was. And for the sake of consistency you can’t pretend that what happened in it didn’t happen. You may break up Spock and Uhura, but you can’t pretend that they didn’t have a relationship. In this particular narrative it is a done deal. Vulcan has been destroyed. It’s gone. The engineering section of the Enterprise looks like a brewery. You’d have to explain the redesign even if you changed it.

961. gingerly - April 5, 2011

@958

Apparently, I am mainstream in Trekdom – wow. I think I might have to sit down now…

There’s no such thing. Despite the success of Trek ’09, mainstream and Trekdom aren’t the same things.

I would also caution against judging an entire fandom based on a poll skewed by where else it’s been linked, who has been directed to come and vote, and against whom.

962. Daoud - April 5, 2011

KIRKUS
Promotus Rapidlius

Solve it in dialog: A great part of TNG/DS9 was gritty O’Brien who’d been in the merchant Marines equivalent as an enlisted guy in Starfleet. We don’t know what Kirk did between age 16 graduating Riverside High, and age 23 on the Motorcycle at the bar. He seemed at ease in space. Just interject that he worked on freighters for 7 years as a boomer. Explains why he was so at home in space. Remember, this Kirk can’t say “I was born in Iowa, I only work in space.” This gritty Kirk will have to say “I was born in space, and being stuck in Iowa led me to want one thing: to get back to space.”)

963. gingerly - April 5, 2011

@927

I take it back, these are the best title suggestions, so far. *LOL*

964. Daoud - April 5, 2011

SPOCK
Kissus Uhuralotski

This ain’t my childhood Spock and Uhura. The universe isn’t the same since 2233. I have no problem with this, given that it doesn’t get misplaced. Now that the universe has setled down a bit, Spock’s perspectives may have changed. The death of his mother will have been some time ago. Perhaps his father has met a young Earth woman named Perrin. Perhaps Spock has decided he will now partner with a Vulcan survivor T’Pring. If the next film opens “3 years later”, then the S/U can be long over. Ballsy would be to have T’Pring on board the Enterprise as a young lieutenant!

965. Thomas - April 5, 2011

boborci,

I don’t often speak up about these matters, but I do want to say that whatever criticisms there may be about ST09, that movie managed to do something that no previous Trek had ever done: it surprised me. For all the hoopla about the destruction of Vulcan, perhaps the most surprising thing of all was that it wasn’t undone, which would’ve been the climax if it had been the plot to an episode of any previous series. As shocking as the loss of Vulcan had been, it was (for lack of a better word) refreshing to see a Trek story that wasn’t afraid to take chances and, even more so, wasn’t afraid to let things stand.

It don’t care if Engineering uses a brewery set (having $150,000,000 to play doesn’t mean there’s free rein to spend it on anything and everything), I don’t care if the Enterprise looks different (because it looks like it was built for the big screen, not to reflect the aesthetics of a 1960’s TV show), I’m not bothered by S/U (post #658 offers great insight into how their outward affection toward one another works). I want to see these characters again, in a new story that’s not afraid to takes chances with how things play out.

966. Daoud - April 5, 2011

ENTERPRISE
Shippus Onnus Viagra

This creature is simple. THIS ISN’T CONNIE CLASS! 2233 changed everything. This is a dreadnought, not a light cruiser. This was Pike’s baby: to create a vessel that could crush the ship that destroyed Kelvin. It’s bigger than a Galaxy. It’s supersized. 2233 is the reason! Narada! Why does everyone forget that?

967. Trek Lady - April 5, 2011

961

“I would also caution against judging an entire fandom based on a poll skewed by where else it’s been linked, who has been directed to come and vote, and against whom.”

Give it a rest, why don’t you?

I wasn’t “judging an entire fandom” – I was having a little fun.

968. Daoud - April 5, 2011

ENGINEERING
Slippus A Bruschii

Water. The stuff life is made of. Any large vessel has to have water and sewage processing. We weren’t in the Engineering CONTROL rooms that we’ve always seen in other Trek. This was the guts. In TOS behind the screen were ppes and conduits not that different from the brewery pipes. For 2012, just build something akin to the old 1701 control room where we always saw Doohan-Scotty at work: and behind the wire mesh grill: the same brewery greenscreened. It’ll work fabulously.

ANd of course in 2009, those tanks were the dolphin navigator tanks. ;) Or spice. ;)

969. Harry Ballz - April 5, 2011

959.

THX-1138, I understand your feelings about Vulcan being destroyed. I think the main reason they did this is to proclaim to the audience, “HEY! THIS IS A NEW AND DIFFERENT STAR TREK ENVIRONMENT! BEWARE! ALL BETS ARE OFF! NOTHING IS SAFE OR OFF LIMITS!”

If you look at it from that angle, it kind of gives our beloved franchise a renewed “edge”.

At least I think so.

970. Allenburch - April 5, 2011

957. Harry Ballz

…in all seriousness…suppose we found a way, medically, to live forever…would we get along enough to allow ourselves to?

971. drellan - April 5, 2011

I’m glad they listen for feedback…that’s cool!

I didn’t mind the lens flares. Maybe them some…but don’t get rid of them altogether.

I had wished that the movie placed pieces together through a trilogy. Star with Pike as Captain with a focus on Kirk and Spock in the first movie. Somehow bring in McCoy and Uhura in the second movie. Bring in the final characters in the third movie with an ending that transitions to Kirk as the Captain. Oh well, this can’t be changed now.

I’d like to see a nod that this is indeed a “mirror universe” of sorts. I’d like to feel that the other timeline still exists (giving hope that a future series or movie will come back to the prime universe). It’s a shame to consider the other prime timeline to be simply discarded – I’m fine with “mirror” universes…just not with “rebooting” star trek.

I’d like to see a cameo appearance by Admiral Archer or even a more important role by T’Pol. If one of these characters made an appearance, I’d feel more comfortable that the other Star Trek series’ that I became invested as a boy aren’t now considered moot by the new powers that be (orci, abrams, etc.).

I’d also like to see a more “militaristic” feel to this. I don’t mean constant fighting and wars. But a professional, less emotional and silly, chain of command structure. Star Trek II and Star Trek III pulled this militaristic feel off the most. Although Star Trek VI also had a military feel to it. So did the TNG tv series…some episodes.

Redesign the bridge and engineering. yes, of course they should be more advanced looking than the classic TV show or older movies. But…you can still have them feel like they are connected. Make the sets a bit “darker” (But not as dark as the movie Generations).

Definately get rid of slap stick humor. Intense, well acted drama…with meaningful action. The drama and story line will draw the audience into the action much more…when the action happens. What I liked about Star Trek II and Star Trek III, in particular, is that those movies “felt real”. I like so-called “intelligent films” that make you think, feel, on a serious level.

Whether its obvious or not…have the story backed by something modern and political. A trademark of early star trek was that it was Gene Roddenberry incoporated a real-life political situation behind the overarching story line. For example, the Klingons were representative of the U.S. nemesis – The Soviet Union. Take this precedent that was created by Gene Roddenberry and go with it…perhaps even amplify this concept. Instead of the communist soviet union, perhaps modern day elements of todays world that might be fit into the story line could include terrorism and terrorist organizations (al queda).

I didn’t like the destruction of Vulcan. But now that it’s been done…don’t ABANDON that background story that’s been created. For me, it felt like destroying Vulcan was more of a nod that this was not Gene Roddenberry or Rick Berman’s Star Trek. Whether meant to be or not, it felt disrespectful to the predecessors that built star trek and the fans that stuck with it. I know…this wasn’t probably the intention. But yet, if that back story is abandoned, it will feel like another stab – as if this was not a big deal.

There needs to be a follow-up to explore what the implications of the destruction of Vulcan are.
_________________________________________________
MY QUESTION IS THIS:

How could a storyline detailing the interstellar consequences of the destruction of Vulcan (both the political and military fallout), coupled with the “human” experience of its refugees, and leading to the rise of a semi-organized terroristic organization based, in part, of overcharged religious-like extremism, be implemented into an intensive scifi psychodrama that brings about the raw emotions of fear, anxiety, saddness and tears, and climaxing with an in-your-face/edge-of-your-seat action, but yet, an unexpected gut-wrenching falling action…and still yet with a cliffhanger leaving you DEMANDING more…ALL into one Star Trek movie?

I think such a story line might just be a bit…daring.

972. Keachick - April 5, 2011

#950 – “Ah the Engineering set. It does not look anything like a 23rd Century ship. Sad.”

So you have been aboard a 23rd century ship? Please – do tell…LOL

973. Greystoke47 - April 5, 2011

Though I wound up generally liking the heart of the movie, there was much that bothered me. The overall production design, engineering especially, the viewscreen being a window with the bridge located at the outer rim of the saucer instead of being heavily protected, too many Star Wars moments, the fast promotions, especially Kirk, massive coincidence, cadets that start a fight in a bar and gang up on one guy and they don’t get expelled, “A supernova that threatened the galaxy” –!?,etc I think I agree with the premise of an all of the above button).

Spock/Uhura simply didn’t work for me.

I might have bought that she was attracted and failing to get him (which fits canonically) then he accepts her affection after the death of mom and the destruction of Vulcan. And as for the latter, only 10,000 Vulcans were off planet at the time? Please. The United states has 10 times that out of country at any given time, not counting the wars. It makes no logical sense that Vulcans would not take advantage of their technology to travel and study the galaxy.

And a minor thing that stuck with me — Kirk and Spock’s debate at the Academy. In my experience anyone who does something like Kirk did with KM test would have his justification at the tip of his tongue, he wouldn’t have just shut up when Spock made his point about facing fear. He would’ve pointed out that the only thing students fear is the test, so he attacked the test.

Things that I hope for in the next movie — Not only should others in Starfleet have a problem with Kirk’s rapid rise, but Kirk should be over his head, which could lead to the solidification of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy relationship and lead to his rising to his duties. Ramifications of the destruction of Vulcan. A science fiction premise that’s more than a plot device.

Whilst there does need to be an antagonist something to overcome, why does there need to be a villain per se?

974. Denise - April 5, 2011

i love Spock/Uhura, and hope to see more of it in the next film. Thanks.

975. drellan - April 5, 2011

Oh, and also, make space seem more large and beautiful…yet dangerous (not just with enemies, but to explore it in general). Later star trek shows and movies especially got away from this.

976. drellan - April 5, 2011

I’m glad they listen for feedback…that’s cool!

I didn’t mind the lens flares. Maybe them some…but don’t get rid of them altogether.

I had wished that the movie placed pieces together through a trilogy. Star with Pike as Captain with a focus on Kirk and Spock in the first movie. Somehow bring in McCoy and Uhura in the second movie. Bring in the final characters in the third movie with an ending that transitions to Kirk as the Captain. Oh well, this can’t be changed now.

I’d like to see a nod that this is indeed a “mirror universe” of sorts. I’d like to feel that the other timeline still exists (giving hope that a future series or movie will come back to the prime universe). It’s a shame to consider the other prime timeline to be simply discarded – I’m fine with “mirror” universes…just not with “rebooting” star trek.

I’d like to see a cameo appearance by Admiral Archer or even a more important role by T’Pol. If one of these characters made an appearance, I’d feel more comfortable that the other Star Trek series’ that I became invested as a boy aren’t now considered moot by the new powers that be (orci, abrams, etc.).

I’d also like to see a more “militaristic” feel to this. I don’t mean constant fighting and wars. But a professional, less emotional and silly, chain of command structure. Star Trek II and Star Trek III pulled this militaristic feel off the most. Although Star Trek VI also had a military feel to it. So did the TNG tv series…some episodes.

Redesign the bridge and engineering. yes, of course they should be more advanced looking than the classic TV show or older movies. But…you can still have them feel like they are connected. Make the sets a bit “darker” (But not as dark as the movie Generations).

Definately get rid of slap stick humor. Intense, well acted drama…with meaningful action. The drama and story line will draw the audience into the action much more…when the action happens. What I liked about Star Trek II and Star Trek III, in particular, is that those movies “felt real”. I like so-called “intelligent films” that make you think, feel, on a serious level.

Whether its obvious or not…have the story backed by something modern and political. A trademark of early star trek was that it was Gene Roddenberry incoporated a real-life political situation behind the overarching story line. For example, the Klingons were representative of the U.S. nemesis – The Soviet Union. Take this precedent that was created by Gene Roddenberry and go with it…perhaps even amplify this concept. Instead of the communist soviet union, perhaps modern day elements of todays world that might be fit into the story line could include terrorism and terrorist organizations (al queda).

I didn’t like the destruction of Vulcan. But now that it’s been done…don’t ABANDON that background story that’s been created. For me, it felt like destroying Vulcan was more of a nod that this was not Gene Roddenberry or Rick Berman’s Star Trek. Whether meant to be or not, it felt disrespectful to the predecessors that built star trek and the fans that stuck with it. I know…this wasn’t probably the intention. But yet, if that back story is abandoned, it will feel like another stab – as if this was not a big deal.

There needs to be a follow-up to explore what the implications of the destruction of Vulcan are.
_________________________________________________
MY QUESTION IS THIS:

How could a storyline detailing the interstellar consequences of the destruction of Vulcan (both the political and military fallout), coupled with the “human” experience of its refugees, and leading to the rise of a semi-organized terroristic organization based, in part, of overcharged religious-like extremism, be implemented into an intensive scifi psychodrama that brings about the raw emotions of fear, anxiety, saddness and tears, and climaxing with an in-your-face/edge-of-your-seat action, but yet, an unexpected gut-wrenching falling action…and still yet with a cliffhanger leaving you DEMANDING more…ALL into one Star Trek movie?

I think such a story line might just be a bit…daring.

977. gingerly - April 5, 2011

@967

:) Stop being so defensive, I was responding, not attacking.

No need to rest anything that’s harmless and fun.

Right?

978. Trek Nerd Central - April 5, 2011

970. I would never, ever want to live forever. I’d die of boredom!

979. Harry Ballz - April 5, 2011

970. “suppose we found a way, medically, to live forever”

Allenburch, all I know is that I’d make a killing on my patented anti-wrinkle cream!

980. THX-1138 - April 5, 2011

Harry

Just because something is new or different or that nothing is safe or off limits does that mean it’s a good thing. Especially if we are to get only two more films out of it. Way back when this site first popped up and the new film was announced I remember saying to myself, as it was clear that they were going to change some things, that I hoped they didn’t just change things for the sake of change. In other words, I feel that some of it was changed just to put JJ’s stamp on it. I find the explanations that some of it had to be changed just to appeal to a new audience as a bit of bullshittery. I can live with the fact that this Star Trek wasn’t made with me in particular in mind. I have all of my DVD’s to watch at home. And I will be in line to see what they do with the next movie.

This new universe is well and all but let me know when we get back to the real universe.

981. Harry Ballz - April 5, 2011

I LIKE THIS LIFE!! IT’S EXCITING!!

982. Jack - April 5, 2011

958. “The only thing NOT included that I would have addressed were the problematic issues of non-rational or reasonable science involved in some events – after all, there is a measure of “science” in science fiction. Maybe consulting with a few experts in their fields might help?”

Yep.

983. Harry Ballz - April 5, 2011

980.

THX………..”bullshittery”. I like that word! Funny how it rhymes with flattery!

984. Zee - April 5, 2011

Daoud

Makes sense to me.

985. Allenburch - April 5, 2011

978. Trek Nerd Central
979. & 981. Harry Ballz

…it seems that life really is worth living for after all…

986. THX-1138 - April 5, 2011

Harry

I use that a lot. Along with “asshattery”. And “dumbf**kery”.

I know I sound like a stodgey purist when I voice my complaints. But that notion that a modern or non-Trek fan type of audience wouldn’t accept more directly TOS inspired aesthetics or designs or concepts has come off as a slap in the face to someone who grew up on the old stuff. Like somehow my appreciation of TOS was old fashioned and out of touch. Sort of insulted me. From there on I felt like my relationship (for that is exactly what it is) with the NuTrek got off on the wrong foot.

987. Allenburch - April 5, 2011

Did everyone see the related article and comments over at SyFy blastr ?

http://blastr.com/2011/04/roberto-orci-trek-2-will-react-to-your-criticism-of-the-1st-film.php

988. Harry Ballz - April 5, 2011

THX

all I know is that, with my being with TOS from the beginning, I went to see Trek 09 on opening night with some trepidation. I feared it would be bad. I emerged from the theatre two hours later and wondered why my face hurt. I realized it was because I had been grinning like an idiot throughout the whole film! It was such a fun romp! I was amazed how right they got it! A lot of people come here to nitpick, but, my gawd, think about it, in the hands of a different production team, CAN YOU IMAGINE HOW BAD STAR TREK 09 COULD HAVE BEEN?

I consider us very lucky to have Orci and team working on our beloved Trek!

989. gingerly - April 5, 2011

@987

I actually think the reactions there are much more useful, as they aren’t tainted by folks who have other agendas (it has become too polarizing around here on a relatively minor plotpoint).

They seem more like Joe and Jane Average. Much more generic.

990. Allenburch - April 5, 2011

989. gingerly

Agreed – It is refreshing.

991. Abby - April 5, 2011

Let me start this off by saying I barely had any idea Star Trek even existed before this movie, and it got me curious enough to start watching the actual show and now I’m hooked for life.

However, even when I had no idea what Star Trek was or what was even going on, the Spock/Uhura romance still made absolutely NO sense.

One second they had a nice little friendship/comrade thing going on, the next they were making out in the turbolift!

Even if I hadn’t watched the show later on and realized that the two characters were simply not right for each other in that way, I would have preferred Spock and Uhura as just friends. Also, they didn’t really go too in-depth with her character – Uhura is such a badass in the series, and it seems as if you… well, used her.

Bleh, fix it.

992. dmduncan - April 5, 2011

Blastr, powered by SyFy. A corporate peehole. I like Anthony’s little people site right here just fiiiine.

993. Allenburch - April 5, 2011

992. dmduncan “Blastr, powered by SyFy. A corporate peehole. I like Anthony’s little people site right here just fiiiine”

…totally agree with you on being generally anti-corporate, but not afraid to use the corporate scums of greed against themselves…and it is also basic strategy to remain aware of how the peer pressure yielding collection of drone-autonatom’s think…

994. Güera - April 5, 2011

Bring in some more Kirk and Spock love, and it will be perfect. >:)

995. THX-1138 - April 5, 2011

I feel like I’m forever explaining myself. I don’t have a problem with the guys who did the movie. I am pretty sure that they are Trek fans. I just had something else in mind when the whole idea of going back to the beginning of Trek in a movie came about. I’m sort of disappointed with exactly what NuTrek is but I’ll live.

996. Harry Ballz - April 5, 2011

How greatly reassuring! :>)

997. Patroclus - April 5, 2011

After all the back and forth on the subject, that has happened on this blog, it’s a little disheartening to see that the poll doesn’t include:

“lack of a significant strong gay male character”

And, In almost 1000 posts here, it seems to have only been mentioned twice. Instead there are big discussions/arguments over Spock/Uhura!? That was one of the more interesting departures. It doesn’t make either character weak. At the very least it gives them added emotion motivation.

I guess I can still hold out a miniscule amount of hope for what “daring” may be.

998. Keachick - April 5, 2011

Phil – I do not want to see a “military” look. The connotation that “military” have for me are largely bad. It reminds me of much that is wrong today and that goes for more militaristic looking uniforms as well.

There are a number of countries – three most obvious, USA, China and India, who have enough money to pour millions/trillions of dollars into developing and maintaining their massive military-industrial complexes, yet, for example, will not/do not provide adequate housing, healthcare, education for many of their citizens. They often allow for employers to be able to pay very low wages with little or no benefits and provide very sub-par working conditions for many of the employees. Never mind if you are handicapped in some way…

China is a big military power and yet is unwilling/unable(?) to take of its elderly, when the powers that be have pursued an aggressive “one child family” policy for more than a generation now. China expects countries like NZ to pay for the care of parents who have lost their only child as a result of dying in the earthquake that hit Chch. No matter that our own ACC regulations actually provide these students families back in China with a compensation payment anyway, but the Chinese government is greedy and wants the NZ government to pay even more…UGH! The cost of the clean up and rebuild of Chch goes into the billions of dollars and we have our own elderly, sick, the homeless, the unemployed (lot of people in Chch right now) to take care of.

I don’t like the psychology of much of the military mind-set – the insistence on strict regulation, often just for regulation sake as in, eg what people may or may not wear (she can wear pants but not a dress or skirt) or dictate the nature and shape of relationships or completely disallow some. I would hope that by the 23rd century, much of the immaturity (seen a lot on this site) will not be nearly as common as it is now and that honesty, trust and goodwill would be much more in evidence.

And then there is Hollywood, also pouring millions of dollars into recreating, re-enacting militaristic themes. What is even more bothersome (but not surprising really – we have been conditioned to want/like this from an early age) is how many people want to see war, explosions, wholesale destruction etc on the big screen. Having a film where an entire planet, Vulcan, is destroyed by a crazy, grieving Romulan bent on revenge is really par for the course, given all the other stuff seen on movies and television.

Frankly, I do not see how humanity will survive, let alone be able to sail the stars Star Trek style, unless there is not a radical change in people’s thinking and acting overall. Unfortunately, with the political/military/corporate industrial complex that exists today, it will be a very tough road indeed.

Is it not time for a film that is different, boldly going AWAY from what is already? and what really is a little unholy and obscene. Afterall, Star Trek is supposed to be taking place at least 200 years from now.

999. Trekprincess - April 5, 2011

I personally didn’t have any problems with the new movie :) guess that’s just me anyway all these opinions are very interesting and fun to read it’s great to see a whole range across the trek fanbase :)

1000. Randy8 - April 5, 2011

Bring back female #1 please.

1001. Rikka - April 5, 2011

I wish I could pick more than one…

1) Biggest concern was timeline (beaming from a planet close enough to see Vulcan to a moving starship billions of miles away? really?) and red matter/plot hole device. Also, why does it take less than an hour to get from Earth to Vulcan, but oer 8 hours to get back?

2) Second biggest complaint was Spock/Uhura. As mentioned several times above, it’s a disservice to two great characters to have this be a defining point. For Uhura, she was awesome enough on her own without needing to be someone’s girlfriend. Also, being emotionally manipulative to get a temporary assignment to the Enterprise during a rescue mission? Not cool. As for Spock…either Uhura was taking advantage during a very vulnerable moment (very low) or the prof was having an affair with a student (also very low).
TOS managed to go through 72 episodes and 6 movies without feeling the need to pair off characters – why couldn’t this movie last 2 hours?

3) The Enterprise redesign was pretty annoying. From the outside, because it’s just way to big. From the inside, using the brewery just left the impression that there was no real layout for the ship, kinda like panels in a comic strip where the artist neglected to draw a background – you’re expected to fill in the blanks with your own imagination. Okay for some comics, lazy in a film set. Otherwise, WTH is the comm lab doing in engineering??

1002. Phil - April 5, 2011

998. Well, Anthony is not a proponent of political debates, and about 99% of your displeasure toward the military is political in nature, so I’m not going to reply to that.

Consider this, though, you live in a country where you have the freedom to express yourself as you see fit. Consider who protects that freedom from those who would take it from you, and maybe, just maybe, you might be able to see something positive coming from those sworn to protect, and die for those freedoms you enjoy.

1003. dmduncan - April 5, 2011

1002: “Consider this, though, you live in a country where you have the freedom to express yourself as you see fit. Consider who protects that freedom from those who would take it from you”

Well, since the political trend is toward demonizing Americans who have the courage to stand up for their Constitutional rights against the creeping erosion of the same, that’s a question I’m having some trouble answering lately.

1004. ensign joe - April 5, 2011

“I don’t like the psychology of much of the military mind-set”

It’s called discipline, friend. It’s one of the facits of building and maintaining a unit.

Not everybody is cut out for deep space travel.. Try reading “Coyote” as an example..

1005. FarStrider - April 5, 2011

@1001 “2) Second biggest complaint was Spock/Uhura. As mentioned several times above, it’s a disservice to two great characters to have this be a defining point. For Uhura, she was awesome enough on her own without needing to be someone’s girlfriend. Also, being emotionally manipulative to get a temporary assignment to the Enterprise during a rescue mission? Not cool. As for Spock…either Uhura was taking advantage during a very vulnerable moment (very low) or the prof was having an affair with a student (also very low).
TOS managed to go through 72 episodes and 6 movies without feeling the need to pair off characters – why couldn’t this movie last 2 hours?”

It’s as much a disservice to McCoy and Spock that everybody and his sister and brother want to to be permanent eunuchs and appendages to Kirk and his career, but that double standard doesn’t seem to occur to anyone. . .

Also, did you miss the fact that Uhura was NO LONGER his student? “Did I not. . . ” Was I not. . . ” And exactly what is emotionally manipulative about sticking up for what she knew she had earned (and Kirk also – he knew she was supposed to be on the Enterprise, which is why he asked the computer for her)? . . .what’s emotionally manipulative about telling someone your qualifications (which Spock obvious knew because at one point, he WAS one of her teachers, and he knew he was wrong to switch her in the first place)? BTW, she’s probably not 21-years-old, she’s probably a grad student, as are most people who graduate with the rank of lieutenant, and even in today’s universities, professors and grad students can date. . .just a tidbit you should know.

As to your last point, every other Star Trek since TOS has paired up individuals. . . and really. . . you think on a 5 year mission smart, attractive people with a lot in common won’t pair up? Really? RIIIIGHT. . .

~FS

1006. gingerly - April 5, 2011

@997

Agreed. I’d like to see it happen too.

I’ve said more than year ago and I’ll say it again, it’s sad to see that so many are wiling to push for one kind of love, by hating another.

That’s called hypocrisy.

1007. number6 - April 5, 2011

To Bob Orci:
Glad you’re paying attention to the fans. Listen to their concerns, but then go make the film you want to make.. Are we really going to get all bent out of shape about nacelles, breweries, and the color of Pine’s eyes?? Really??

Carve a new path and tell a great story.

1008. Gabriel - April 5, 2011

Can I make a plea for science here?

I know it’s science fiction and therefore there are, and will always be, plenty of inaccuracies, and I can handle suspending belief for time travel, warp speed, and transporters but I think I sat up and audibly expressed my disbelief when I heard Nimoy say, “a star will explode, and threaten to destroy the galaxy.”

The entire galaxy, really? For starters that looked like a yellow star, which would never go supernova. If it did somehow go supernova, (at this moment I’m assuming it’s not Romulus’s sun going supernova) it would not expand and engulf/destroy Romulus. The shock wave would hit it and, depending on the distance from the star, kill part of the ozone layer and expose the planet to a bunch of radiation. In the case of it being Romulus’s sun we’re talking about, the planet would have become uninhabitable long before the star went supernova as it expanded and grew hotter. And we’re talking about thousands if not millions of years here. In either case, the galaxy is not in danger.

To me that stuck out like a sore thumb if only because it was such a major part of the main plot. While I accepted Vulcan’s destruction, I didn’t actually want the planet to blow up so the gapping holes in the logic behind it’s destruction kind of bugged me.

Now that I’m done with that I would like to say that I still greatly enjoyed the movie and aside from some minor and inconsequential things thought it was very good.

Last thought—Spock/Uhura. If you want to keep it, be more convincing. It felt unbelievable and last minute, like they just tacked on three scenes where the two characters actually interact.

1009. Phil - April 5, 2011

1003. Ironic, considering that most of these countries who complain about how we spend our money have no problem letting us shoulder the burden of their defense, with little more then a thank you for our trouble.

1010. Iva - April 5, 2011

The key word “defense” being an euphemism for dropping bombs like candy.

1011. Luis Carranza Jasso - April 5, 2011

A big problem that adds to the whole and is a bit untouched is respect for the universe that was created before.

Ok, it is a reboot, but it is based upon the premise that everything started to change when Narada appeared in front of the Kelvin. So, The Kelvin sequence SHOULD have stayed 100% faithful to the original cannon.

1) Kelvin weaponry is far too good for any ship. it also has some kind of blue blasters… what are those?

2) When the Kelvin speeds up, the warp nacelle glow brighter. Warp Nacells are only for Warp drive. Impulse engines should have glowed instead. There are writer’s manuals with in-depth schematics of ship parts and such.

3) View screen has nothing to do with cannon.

4) 31 Shuttle crafts? in such small ship? Original Enterprise had 2!

5) Phasers can knock down Narada’s torpedoes when after shuttles, but they can’ protect Kelvin in the first place? come on…

6) No matter how Narada affected timeline, Kirk should’ve been born in Iowa anyways.

And that’s just that part, I can write my own commentary audio track about all things this movie did wrong versus original cannon. It may seem geekish rubbish, but no. It is about respecting the hard work of previous writers, artists, directors and fans.

You should’ve hired trekkies as consultants since the first movie.

1012. Inuyashei - April 6, 2011

Actually, most of us who disliked the Spock/Uhura thing were going on the following issues:

Spock is a professor, Uhura is *his student*.
Spock is a full lieutenant commander at this juncture, while Uhura is *a cadet*. For Commander Spock to behave in the way he did, if in fact we’re supposed to think they’re a couple, was so far out of character it was ridiculous.

So, easy fix: she merely comforted a grieving friend, they were not a couple.

No other “agenda” presumed or needed. Merely my observation that Spock, of all people, would never be so unprofessional.

1013. james - April 6, 2011

I think spock and uhura romance was great. The characters of spock and uhura in this universe are very different than the original, so their actions and reactions should not be decided or predicted based on our spock and uhura i think. The new spock seems to have hotter blood. The new uhura a lot more assertive and driven than the more mellow original. Because of this i cant feel freaked out by them acting differently to the original versions any more than i would be freaked out by the old mirror universe versions of the characters acting and reacting differently.

In terms of the engine room, consider this. It is easy to forget, but trek was a dead franchise after nemesis. I’m astounded they gave jj the budget they did. And he used it with a brain in his head. Sets cost a lot of money and the volume of location filming he did where ever possible is probably the reason the effects looked as amazing as they did so consistently. I mean it was made on pretty much the same budget as ironman but felt like it cost twice as much.

1014. Keachick - April 6, 2011

Demonising America? Obviously you did not properly read my post because I wrote that countries like India and China were also building up a huge industrial-military complex, often at the expense of the wellbeing of many of their citizens.

“It’s called discipline, friend. It’s one of the facits of building and maintaining a unit.”

Please – I’m not your “friend”. Do not patronise me. A military mind-set is not necessarily synonymous with discipline. There are many thousands of people working outside a military complex who are as disciplined as any military man. That is such an arrogant assumption.

I’m well aware of the larger powers like the US do. The fact that a US aircraft carrier was able to assist Japan first, when the earthquake and tsunami hit, is because there are so many of these military vessels patrolling in waters everywhere, often well away from homebase. It can be somewhat intimidating sometimes even, but that is also a role of the military, is it not? to be a little scary and intimidating?

Also, do not presume that because a nation is small, that they don’t play a part in trying to keep the world safe and protecting innocents from warmongering bullies. Most of what the NZ Army does is actually help clean up the mess, the destruction and carnage, wrought upon civilians often by their own military/terrorists and/or by the military and/or terrorists of other countries. Our boys in Iraq were the ones largely responsible for rebuilding ruined infrastructure so that ordinary, frightened civilian families got access to clean drinking water, a safe place to sleep, food and medical care and the Army also provided ongoing protection from terrorists etc. This is what the NZers have done in places like East Timor as well. I would not surprised at all that after all the bombs and missiles have been dropped on Libya etc by the US and British military forces, that we hear a cry that a humanitarian crisis of horrendous proportions has resulted and guess what, the kiwis once again get to go in and clean up… So much for defence, huh!

Most of the time, military has been set up as a means of taking the not given from other nations and cultures (fighting over resources and making a grab for more land, at the expense of the people already occupying it), and of keeping (a tight) control of their own citizenry (China has proven itself in that regard). So the US freely and willingly shoulders the burden of our defence? Well, we’d all like to think so, but the military mind-set of those in authority has little to do with what is necessarily ethically right and more to do with what is expedient and self-serving.

This is why I don’t like the idea of making Star Trek’s Starfleet so militaristic in its look, feel and ethos. Star Trek is supposed to represent how we as humans have grown, become slowly but surely better overall – “we’re on a peaceful mission” said Captain James T Kirk, on a starship Enterprise (albeit named after a military vessel, unfortunately), with a limited, but effective weapons capability.

Note to Bob Orci – There was way too much weaponry on Trek’s 2009 Enterprise. My little nitpick here.

1015. Inuyashei - April 6, 2011

Figured it’s only fair to say the rest of me piece: the new movie was great, loved all the easter eggs for us oldtime fen, yeah what happened to Vulcan was a hell of a shock — but damn, the story has *juice*. I came out of the theatre that first time bouncing off the walls, grinning like a mad bastard and generally acting derangedly happy. So I didn’t like the romance. So what. The movie really was a bang-up job, it rejuvenated a franchise that desperately needed it, after all those year of Bermanisms.

So, go for it guys, give us a good one again! I second the vote for problem rather than villain this time, a la Devil In the Dark — that’s the best of TOS imho. As for them as say ye dinna know the material — bollocks. Ye’d never have found all those lovely homages for us if ye didn’t know TOS. Not to mention Nyota’s first name, which I’m pretty sure came from the pro-novels Berman was always ignoring. Likewise Sulu’s first name!

Nice one lads. Don’t dump Scotty either — he wasn’t Jimmy Doohan it’s true, but Simon was frelling *brilliant*. Just give him a free hand with Engineering and enjoy the fun, yeah?

And whaddaya know, now I know why it looked so much like a brewery. Heh heh heh…

1016. Delma - April 6, 2011

I am amazed at the number people who say it was Out Of Character for Spock to kiss Uhura, yet do not complain he almost choked Kirk to death on the bridge!

1017. Trek Lady - April 6, 2011

1016

I don’t recall Kirk being choked as being a nitpick on the list, and thus open for discussion. So how the heck do you know whether folks have problems with it or not?

I am always amazed at the number of folks who bring up issues from out of the blue to suggest people aren’t being “balanced” in their criticisms, when those other “issues” aren’t even raised in the original post! That is discussion FAIL!

By the way, I actually do have a problem with the choking scene – why the heck does everyone just stand around while their commanding officer tries to kill someone? These are supposed to be well trained officers, drilled to react to every situation, and they stand around like a bunch of dweebs. Oh, I know *why* they didn’t react – because we had to have the choking go on, but it seems like it could have been better set up, or at least one person could have tried to step in and been thrown aside by Spock…. something to show these bridge officers can do more than gape.

1018. alien_underpants - April 6, 2011

Portraying uhura as a warm piece of meat for a horny vulcan to feast his vulcan teeth on is not sexist? I must be living in an alternate universe indeed.

1019. ensign joe - April 6, 2011

@ 1014

“Most of the time, military has been set up as a means of taking the not given from other nations and cultures (fighting over resources and making a grab for more land, at the expense of the people already occupying it), and of keeping (a tight) control of their own citizenry (China has proven itself in that regard).”

Think of the Star Trek military as having all the good things that come from the military.. we are supposed to have evolved a bit in the Trek future where we put our organizational skills to good and not bad.. see the difference?

“A military mind-set is not necessarily synonymous with discipline. There are many thousands of people working outside a military complex who are as disciplined as any military man. That is such an arrogant assumption.”

Did I say anything about exclusive rights to ‘discipline’ ?? Of course not. Look at martial arts. Look at marching bands. Look at Astronauts. Just to name a few.

So put down “God Emperor of Dune” and pick up “Coyote”… if you take my meaning..

1020. Poopner - April 6, 2011

Can we consider JJ Abrams as the villain? In both of his so-called “Star Trek” films?
I would trust Star Trek to Joel and Ethan Coen before letting JJ take another crack at it. Crack being more than an operative word.

1021. tosfan2 - April 6, 2011

To Bob Orci,

I really like the bridge–but I think it needs to be tweaked just a little bit. The ending shot where we get to see all the core characters in place–Uhura is somewhat cut off by the computerized panel. I don’t know if it is the angle of the shot; but she needs to be placed slightly more a way from that panel so we can see her clearly as we can see the others no matter what the angle is. Other than that–I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, and my hope is that you will keep “everything” in place just as you introduced it. Your origin story worked well for me, and I’m looking forward to seeing how these characters (and the circumstances you placed them in), evolve. It’s great that you listen to fan concerns–but I really hope you and the team don’t “listen”. If I want to see TOS all over again–I’ll just pop in my dvd’s. Please continue to give us something new and refreshing. It’s the new stuff that made things so very interesting.

1022. gingerly - April 6, 2011

@1012

If those are the issues that truly do bug some of you, then that is what diminishes your stance.

Because you are choosing to believe (heck, would even seem to rather believe) that they are acting unprofessionally, as opposed what is more likely, plausible, and even implied in the movie, given what we know of both characters, their actions, and what was said….

Uhura said she was (past tense) one of his top students.

So, then why would you choose to believe that Spock would sleep with a student, rather than date a former student, acting unprofessionally, as you say?

Why would you rather choose to believe that Uhura would more likely inappropriately attack, take advantage of, or even comfort a grieving friend (a Vulcan, even!) in the turbolift (with a lot of touching and a kiss), as opposed to the simple explanation, that she is comforting her boyfriend?

Why has no one judged Riker and Troi for dating at different ranks, as acting unprofessionally?

What’s different about these two that makes peoples’ minds go there, even when presented with so much evidence that they probably didn’t?

See, it’s this kind of thing that makes people wonder and speculate about what would make you think like that.

Why do your minds go to the most negative place, in the face of evidence that not only makes more sense, given what know of both of their characters, but are supported by lines and actions in the script, especially if that’s not something you want to believe about either of them?

1023. Cah - April 6, 2011

Re: Spock/Uhura.

Some people like it, some people don’t. Hasn’t it been argued to death already? No minds are being changed, here. If someone comments saying they love S/U or hate it, then just don’t reply to either one (unless, someone actually IS racist or sexist, because calling someone out for that is totally justified).

Seriously, this is getting boring.

1024. Trek Ahead - April 6, 2011

How about an exciting, intelligent, science fiction story based on science fact?

With all that we now know pertaining to astrophysics, all you could come up with is this tired, overused, lame black hole time travel plot? Have you never watched the Discovery or Science channel? If light can’t escape from a black hole, I find it very unlikely that a ship detonating it’s engine can push it out of harms way. Destruction of a planet with a little red goo? C’mon! Besides, destroying a planet was already done in Star Wars. Ho Hum.

Ever since the original show began, for more than 40 years we’ve been told that transporters have a limited range for added dramatic tension. Now Scotty just whips up a transporter that can transport two people onto a starship traveling faster than the speed of light. This should’ve been a life changing, momentous achievement yet it is never mentioned again. And why couldn’t they transport Spock’s mother from a much closer distance? It should’ve been an easy task after that. So I guess the next movie we won’t need starships, because now thanks to Mr. Scott we can all just use the transporter.

When Gene Roddenberry produced “The Cage” the suits told him it was too cerebral. And even though he had to dumb it down to appeal to a less sophisticated audience, he still wrote an intelligent and exciting story. This version of Star Trek was just dumbed down, with no attempt at an intelligent story, just to sell more tickets. Michael Bay could have directed this movie to the same effect. I walked out of the theatre feeling disappointed and insulted!

Take a look at what James Cawley has done. He gets it. I’d like to see what he would do with a multi million dollar budget.

I don’t think I’ll buy a ticket to this next movie. I’m going to wait until it comes out on DVD, and wait for a friend to order it on netflicks before I watch it. I’m not giving JJ Abrahms any more of my money.

Of course, this is all just my own opinion. But you did ask.

1025. gingerly - April 6, 2011

@1023

Aren’t you responding to the same topic though, while advising against it?

It’s an issue.

Some people hate it, without all the suspicious stipulations and negative out of character judgements on the characters (and even actors in wild cases). Some people love and defend it hard precisely because of those suspicious stipulations, that only seem to strangely apply to those particular characters, in Trek.

As long as people have ulterior motives on both sides (both positive and negative), it will continue to be discussed. You can scroll or browse through other topics to discuss other things.

LGBT issues in Trek had a thread just as long, if not longer, a good while back.

1026. Iva - April 6, 2011

I just hope that when they fix the mess, Scotty’s character gets fixed too,
as an extension to the brewery problem option. It would be wrong to fix one, but leave him as a class clown, this is supposed to be science fiction, his role/engineering section are important.
Hah, imagine in the end it turns out 4 500+ people voted for nothing and everything stays the same.

1027. Cah - April 6, 2011

@1025 I knew I was going to get this argument. And as I advised STOPPING arguing about it, I’m actually okay with myself for adding one more neutral post about it.

I’m not saying it’s not an issue, but confronting everyone who says they don’t like S/U is just a waste of time. I’ve seen the same arguments for and against twenty times scrolling down; if there’s nothing new to bring to the table, then don’t say anything at all.

Obviously I’m not the thought police and I can’t actually stop people talking about it – just thought it might be a good idea to live and let live, you know? ;) I’ve seen it been done regarding pairings before. Not that hard.

1028. cazza - April 6, 2011

@1013

I think you and others appear to have missed the point that the movie was trying to make – that despite some changes to the timeline certain things remain the same i.e the characters of Spock and Kirk. When Spock Prime encounters Kirk in the cave he doesn’t refer to him as ‘a James T Kirk’, he tells him ‘you are James T Kirk.’ Similarly he refers to himself as ‘Spock’, rather than ‘a Spock.’ If Kirk is a different person altogether why would Spock Prime be adamant about him taking over command of the Enterprise? Why would he be so sure that this James T Kirk would be up to the job? How would he be so sure that Spock is emotionally compromised and unable to admit it? Why would he be so sure that Spock and Kirk will have a defining friendship, after all aren’t they supposed to be complete different to their counterparts. In fact why is Spock Prime there at all if not to make it clear that things in this universe aren’t going to be all that different?

1029. gingerly - April 6, 2011

@1027

Cah, I don’t know how long you’ve been here, but seriously, been there done that (as in the same arguments, the same trolls, the same let’s ignore them/not talk about it, and then it comes up again). :)

It’s the nature of the beast. I’m fine with it.

1030. Phil - April 6, 2011

1024. Trek Ahead – April 6, 2011
I don’t know why, but it does rub me the wrong way when people just assume the audience is full of idiots. Dumbed down or not, sci fi does tend to stimulate the imagination, which will lift people up over time. This elitist attitude is what drives people away, not brining them in.

Oh, Cawley is on the internet because he can’t sell what he produces. Enough said.

1031. THX-1138 - April 6, 2011

#1011

Spot on. You are correct. 1,000 internets to you.

1032. Paige - April 6, 2011

#1016: Interesting point. But you know, for whatever reason, the scene with Spock choking Jim didn’t bother me as much as the marooning him on Delta Vega. The choking was emotionally charged, spur of the moment, ‘crime in the heat of passion’ type thing. And I can also understand, somewhat, why it took a moment for anyone to react to what they were seeing… A Vulcan have an extreme emotional display?! They were, rightly, stunned speechless.

But marooning Jim on Delta Vega seemed far more of a calculated wrong.

I get, logistically, why it had to be done, from a writing standpoint. Jim and TOS universe Spock needed to meet and that was a neat way to do it. But from a characterization standpoint? The punishment didn’t fit the crime, especially when the Enterprise has a brig.

When Kirk made a similar move to Khan in “Space Seed” he gave Khan a choice, prison or marooning, and the planet he marooned Khan on, was, at the time (he had no way of knowing it would soon become a desert wasteland) green and habitable. Not only that, but Khan got a trial.

It bothers me that since Delta Vega was a neighboring planet of Vulcan, and the Vulcans had been traveling space even longer than humanity, Spock would have known exactly what kind of creatures inhibited that planet, and that giant man-eating lobsters were among them. And since he already knew that Jim has a habit of disregarding rules that don’t serve his purpose (God love him, that has always amused me to no end) he had to suspect Jim wouldn’t stay in the shuttle.

It also bothered me that when Jim showed up at the base, Scotty assumed that he was the relief, and not ‘oh, you’re that naughty officer I was informed was going to be sent down here and I should be out looking for’, signifying that he wasn’t informed Jim was going to be there. If you’re going to maroon an officer near a Starfleet base for bad behavior, shouldn’t you alert said base?

It almost came across as Spock sending Jim down there to get him killed.

Which, as I stated before, was a far more calculated move than the choking and kind of irked me from a characterization standpoint. Kind of like the difference between murder in the first and murder in the second. It was definitely a moment in the movie that gave me pause… I do admit to doing a double take, like, wait a minute, aren’t Vulcans supposed to be pacifists?

1033. FarStrider - April 6, 2011

@1032 Vulcans may be pacifists now, but that is NOT hardwired into who they are as a people. . . it is something they learn and practice, not who they are. . . they have weapons, they still fight each other to the death, and they even have that nifty neck breaking move. . they were Warriors . . . and made enemies throughout the quadrant before they decided to be peaceful. . . as for Delta Vega, it was a call back to the first TOS episode with Gary Mitchell, and if you will recall that, Spock was the one advocating killing Mitchell outright before he became too powerful. . .and Spock was the one who signed off on basically sending him to Delta Vega to die. . .

~FS

1034. Paige - April 6, 2011

#1033: Yes, I remember the episode “Where No Man Has Gone Before”. But Gary Mitchell had killed somebody. And he was developing god-like powers (clairvoyance, telekinesis, etc.)… the two situations don’t really compare. Kirk hadn’t killed anyone, and he didn’t have special powers. Basically, were any charges to be leveled the most you could get Kirk for would be assault and insubordination.

1035. Keachick - April 6, 2011

#1028 – “If Kirk is a different person altogether why would Spock Prime be adamant about him taking over command of the Enterprise? Why would he be so sure that this James T Kirk would be up to the job? How would he be so sure that Spock is emotionally compromised and unable to admit it? Why would he be so sure that Spock and Kirk will have a defining friendship, after all aren’t they supposed to be complete different to their counterparts. In fact why is Spock Prime there at all if not to make it clear that things in this universe aren’t going to be all that different?”

Spock recognised the person he rescued from the nasty multiple-eyed beastie as looking like the young James T Kirk from the prime timeline. He actually appeared slightly surprised. However, it was not until Spock mind-melded with this young Kirk that he realised that this (Pine) Kirk was indeed the same person he knew in the prime universe. Spock also found out that there was also another younger Spock as well and he deduced that if this Kirk was the same person he had known all those years, then the younger Spock could well be himself at a much younger age also.

Although this nuSpock decided the follow/honour the human way more so than the vulcan way (ref: when nuSpock does not join the Vulcan Science Academy), Spock is still also half-vulcan, which means that his inherent vulcan makeup and social conditioning would make it very hard to admit to being emotionally compromised. In fact, the same could be said of probably just all the surviving vulcans. EVERYONE, humans and vulcans alike, would have been, in some way or other, emotionally compromised by the events that had just taken place.

There was no way that Uhura could/would have done what Kirk did – scream at Spock that he never loved his mother. She was Spock’s friend, comforter. You don’t tell your friend/lover(?) who have just lost their mother and whole world, that they never loved their mother. If Uhura had done that, then people would be correct to call her a bitch, but she didn’t, wouldn’t have, couldn’t have. It was the unpleasant task allotted to Kirk by the older Spock himself (remember – prime Spock told the nuKirk to do what was necessary…). I’m not sure that Kirk would have said what he did to Spock otherwise. I seriously doubt it.

Prime Spock is keen to bring Kirk and Spock together, because he knew that even in this alternate universe, they could just as likely develop an enduring friendship. It may not go exactly as it did in the prime universe, but the essential spirit would be there. I think that, in the important areas of life that matter like forming and experiencing close friendships, prime Spock hoped and believed that little would change. As for everything else, in terms of when, how, if’s of various events not so directly related to the formation of Kirk, Spock, McCoy friendship, well who knows what might happen. Kirk and McCoy have already forged a friendship, but they are already a good way there in the formation of the threesome that we all love.

1036. Keachick - April 6, 2011

“Did I say anything about exclusive rights to ‘discipline’ ?? Of course not. Look at martial arts. Look at marching bands. Look at Astronauts. Just to name a few.”

You inferred it. So why must Starfleet look and be so militaristic? Yes, look at astronauts…aren’t the crew of the Enterprise, ship of exploration, supposed to be 23rd century versions of today’s astronauts? Today’s astronauts are not military. Some may have had military training – Airforce mostly, but they are no longer part of the US military and therefore not subject to strict military codes etc. Why should Starfleet be so subject to military code, esp. when it is about people expecting what exists today to happen 200 years from now in a different (human) environment?

The problem is that even Gene R. dropped the ball on this one and lost the plot. As I said in a previous post, it is more than likely that Starfleet will not be like anything we have today – it will have aspects of what is now (including effective defensive capabilities) but Starfleet would need to be greater than the sum of all its parts.

So? I don’t know those books.

1037. ensign joe - April 6, 2011

So, read them.

1038. Trek Ahead - April 6, 2011

@ 1030. Phil – April 6, 201

Hey Phil, I’m sorry if you feel rubbed wrongly.

Most of today’s movie going audience are very intelligent and far more educated than they were 40 years ago. This movie was marketed more to a younger 20 to 30 something crowd. Many of which prefer movies with action, sex and violence. ( when I was in my 20’s so did I ) So they created a weak plot with a ton of special effects and explosions, slapped the Star Trek label on it and It sold a lot of tickets! People like what they like.

As for being an elitist, I disagree. I am a fan of all science fiction, not just Star Trek. I don’t like movies or literature that insult my intelligence. I have no problem with anyone who enjoyed the movie. Since Rooberto Orci was asking for feedback, that was who it is directed towards.

By the way, James Cawley does what he does because he loves Star Trek.
Considering he does it all for free, I think the production values are pretty damn good!

As I said before, this is just my opinion.

1039. Keachick - April 6, 2011

You still have not answered my questions other than “Oh, it’s good for discipline”, why Starfleet needs to look and act so militaristic, right down to the starchy uniforms and the Enterprise appearing to be so heavily armoured when they are supposed to be doing peaceful exploration of space?

I have already stated that there is a need for some defensive weaponry. That is a no-brainer. Nobody knows what is out there. There could easily be some dangerous natural phenomenon which could destroy the ship and the only way the ship frees itself is by firing/shooting its way out. I mean, what is this Dark Matter that gets mentioned sometimes?

Actually, I think that is more likely than finding some pesky, revenge crazed alien race.

“So, read them.” Is that an order?

1040. dmduncan - April 6, 2011

1014. Keachick – April 6, 2011

Demonising America? Obviously you did not properly read my post

***

I am the one who said “demonizing” and I said it about AmericanS, not AmericA, and it was a response to Phil at 1002, not to you.

1041. Keachick - April 6, 2011

#1017 No. The category “Spock choking Kirk” was not on the list of nitpicks, but there is another option which deals with other story/plot issues. That is the one I voted for. The “issues” I have with this movie are really small nitpicks in comparison with the more major “issues” mentioned that some people had problems with.

A nitpick I have is about the writers not telling when or how long some things take – eg how long does it take for a starship to get to Vulcan going at warp speed (was it something like warp 4?). That was not very clear. How long did it take for the drill to get to the core of Vulcan? Would it have taken the same amount of time to drill down to the core of Earth?

The two scenes I found confusing was when Chekov made the shipwide announcement about what had happened and what the mission was only three minutes? before they arrived at Vulcan. This announcement caused Kirk to come to full consciousness and sit bolt upright.

Then we see Kirk and McCoy tearing around the ship looking for Uhura. They find her and she confirms that it was a Romulan ship. McCoy injects him once again and Kirk yells, “Darn it!” then immediately we get shown the drill being put into Vulcan.

Would it not have already been there drilling? What was the cause of the seismic disturbances if it were not the drill going deep into the planet’s crust and causing major disruption to fault lines etc? Obviously Nero was already drilling. It was just the timing, the sequence of these events shown that was off and could be, for some people watching, unnecessarily confusing.

Not big things, Bob. Just a mention of certain relevant facts made by a crewmember like time taken just makes for easier audience comprehension and better flow.

1042. Keachick - April 6, 2011

#1040 OK, yes. I see what you meant now. My post was not about demonizing America or Americans per se.

It was about my dislike and distrust of what has become a worldwide corporate/industrial military complex that seems to swallow up so much budget, not to mention much in the way of non-renewable resources, not only in the US, but in places like China and India. I mean even poverty stricken countries like Pakistan now has nuke weapons. This is like a cancer, a plague, a virus, a devilish beast infecting all and everything…

For me, showing Starfleet as being too or more militaristic, feels to me that the writers are buying into what is going on right now and I don’t agree that they should, nor is it very Star Trek either.

Star Trek is not Stargate, not Star Wars, not Battlestar Galactica… This is one of the major reasons why I prefer it to all the other shows.

1043. ~Id - April 6, 2011

This one quote from Spock Prime started my downward spiral..:

“129 years from now, a star will explode
and threaten to destroy the galaxy.”

Oh, really? the GALAXY?! Not perhaps, say just the Romulan solar system? Still enough of an issue to attempt his mission but no, we had to ‘super-size’ the problem. As much as Nimoy used to stand his ground on the set of TOS and the later movies, I can’t believe he uttered those words..sigh

1044. Phil - April 6, 2011

1039. Keachick – April 6, 2011

Actually, it’s been explained by a number of different people on several occasions. You don’t like the answers, and have been really dismissive of really good explainations. Unless I’m missing something:
-Starfleet is charged with defending the Federation.
-Starfleet is charged with charting and exploring the galaxy.
-Starfleet is charged to represent the UFP to non-member worlds.
-Starfleet is charged with protecting the interests of the Federation.
-Starfleet answers to a civilian government.
I’m assuming the Federation does not have unlimited resources to create seperate functioning units for each of it’s mandates, meaning that any given Starfleet vessel would be expected to execute all of it’s mandates. So, if the military model is so distasteful, show me a civilian model that would work….I can’t think of one.

1045. FarStrider - April 6, 2011

@1034 “The two situations don’t really compare. Kirk hadn’t killed anyone, and he didn’t have special powers. Basically, were any charges to be leveled the most you could get Kirk for would be assault and insubordination.”

To be a callback, the situations don’t have to correspond exactly. . . and Kirk grabbed a red-shirt’s gun, and very well could have very well been charged with mutiny, which is an offense commonly punishable by death, and the punishment is left up to the captain. . . so, Spock was within his rights. . .

~FS

1046. Mel - April 6, 2011

I am also against the Spock/Uhura relationship. I share most reasons against their relationship given by previous posters, so I won’t repeat them.

I think the focus should be on the Kirk/Spock/McCoy friendship. Their relationship is what made TOS great. The other characters should stay supporting characters. They should get of course some scenes, but the focus should stay on the big three. McCoy’s role was really too small in the last movie. That must change!

1047. dmduncan - April 6, 2011

Starfleet is quasi military. There really isn’t any present day analog that I’m aware of. Marine Expeditionary Units (MEUs) are a very rough approximation, since they have multiple missions besides warfare, i.e., various humanitarian operations.

1048. Keachick - April 6, 2011

No, I have not liked the answers and I don’t agree that the explanations have been “really good”.

Anyway, I hope that Bob Orci and co give some serious thought to the issues raised in this discussion.

1049. Paige - April 6, 2011

#1045:

“To be a callback, the situations don’t have to correspond exactly…. Spock was within his rights.”

True, but you’re dealing with the problem of motivation. Gary Mitchell had god-like powers. Q Continuum like powers. But he was also psychotic. He believed himself to be above mankind. More evolved. And in addition to killing someone, had also knocked Spock and Kirk out and had plans to kill Kirk. He had infinite power, the crew of the Enterprise were like ants to him. The threat he posed, with the power he had, and his psychology left Kirk and Spock no other choice.

Kirk didn’t really pose a threat. He was one man with only his genius and his savvy. His motivation was that he felt that the Enterprise returning to rendezvous with the fleet was the wrong choice to make, a mistake that would ultimately cost the Federation dearly. His motivation wasn’t that of a psychotic killer but that of someone trying to make a point about which action to take.

Beyond that, thanks to episodes like TOS’s “Court Martial” and “Space Seed”, and even the wonderful ST6 “Undiscovered Country”, we know a little bit about Federation law… Kirk had a right to a trial before any punishment, such as marooning, was distributed.

As I said, the Enterprise has a brig. Spock could have easily used it. He took an extreme course of action, one that not only put Kirk in harms way, but also impeded Kirk’s civil rights. As Kirk, himself, stated when woke up on Delta Vega.

1050. Phil - April 6, 2011

1047. You don’t have to agree, that’s your right. However you have gone beyond that by being really dismissive of the explainations that were offered up. and when asked, “okay, show me a civilian model that works” you duck the question. I’ll make it easier – lets scrub the self defense mandate. For purposes of this discussion the universe has been scrubbed clean of any artificially produced hostilities. All you have to do is command a fleet of science ships scattered throughout the galaxy, without benefit of a command and control system. Show me a civilian model that can do it….I can. Look how Fed Ex and UPS work. Problem is, it’s designed and run by guys who learned how from the military model.

1051. Christelle - April 6, 2011

I loved almost everything about the movie… except the Spock/Uhura romance. Here are my reasons:

1) I had no idea it was there until the started kissing. There was no chemistry. Catching the audience completely by surprise with a supposedly established relationship is not an accomplishment – it’s a failure to develop a romance, and makes it seem like somethign pulled out of the blue so that the movie might appeal to women (and, for your information, I am female, hated the romance, and much preferred the background stories and action sequences).

2) It flattened Uhura’s character. Think about how many Nu!Trek fans now see her as only a pretty face, who got her way onto the Enterprise by sleeping with a guy with influence. That makes so many people lose respect for her. She’s the only woman with an important position on the bridge, did you have to limit her simply to the role of ‘the girlfriend’? It’s a shame to see a good character wasted like that.

3) They are NOT meant for each other. As anything other than friends. In ANY timeline/universe.

4) It didn’t make sense, If she truly loved him and had been dating him for a while, she would have know Vulcans do NOT do PDA (need I remind any fans of the original movies – “Not in front of the Klingons, Captain” – and that was just his friend, ot even romantic!), and wouldn’t have kissed him on the transporter pad. He was also basically a stoic (well, mostly stoic) emotional wreck – kissing him thn was taking advantage of him. This all clearly shows she did not know him very well, and they shouldn’t be dating.

5) He doesn’t love her. Honestly, I think it might even have been easier for many long-time fans to swallow if Spock went and gave Kirk a Vulcan kiss than if he made out with Uhura (though I still see the relationship between Spock and Kirk as simply close friends, t’hy’la in the ‘brothers’ sense of the word – no offence to Spirk fans). Because there is not any chemistry there. He was perfectly willing to leave and help his not endangered race despite his supposed relationship with Uhura, and only came back for his life-altering friendship with the captain. If he’s willing to come back for a friend but not for a “lover”, there is no love there.

6) It was horribly developed. As I stated in reason one – the relationship development – if there even was any – failed spectacularily. It caught me by complete surprise, and I felt absolutely NO chemistry WHATSOEVER when they kissed. If there was any chemistry, it was forced – and when you have to force it, you know you’ve got a problem.

All these reasons combined with the 23% of voters (more than even engineering pet peeves) had a problem with it, should be enough of a hint to the producers/writers/director that this is not what the fans want. Please terminate te relationship as quickly as possible (and let Uhura keep her dignity, please).

Sorry for any mis-spellings or improper grammar. French is my first language, not English (though I am rather fluent, at least at speaking).

1052. Christelle - April 6, 2011

In reason number five I did not mean to put “not endangered race”. Simple ignore the “not” please :). And any other errors. Hopefully it’s readable.

1053. Paige - April 6, 2011

#1045: Forgot to include “Turnabout Intruder” and “The Menagerie” in the list of episodes where Federation Law is brought up (I just watched “Menagerie” today because I remembered, in the back of my mind, that it dealt specifically with the charge of mutiny). A court martial, (a.k.a trial), is required, including a board of inquiry, before punishment id given. During the court martial the accused has a right to speak in his defense.

Kirk was not given those things by Spock prior to being marooned on Delta Vega. He was pretty much given the nerve pinch, evacuated and left to die.

1054. Phil - April 6, 2011

1045. FarStrider – April 6, 2011

Oh, Kirk was definately insubnordiate while on Enterprise. By then, though, chain of command was all ready out the window, so what to do…file charges, or promote him to captain??

1055. Capes - April 6, 2011

@896 Bob Orci

Thanks Bob! Made my day!

By god we have some writing folks on this thread. A little more and that screenplay will be written !

1056. FarStrider - April 6, 2011

@1049 You are expecting Spock to act rationally about Kirk, forgetting that Spock was emotionally compromised by this point in the movie: his planet and people are destroyed, his mother slipped through his fingers to her death; Spock is now the highest-ranking officer in a ship filled with cadets and now an upstart cadet, who cheated on a test that Spock designed, who isn’t supposed to be on the ship in the first because of said cheating, is not only questioning what in Spock’s mind are legitimate orders from their real captain, but has GOTTEN A GUN and is a threat to the entire mission. He doesn’t have time to deal with this, and he makes a rash, emotionally compromised decision. Delta Vega may be dangerous, but there is a Star Fleet base there, and if Kirk had stayed in his pod, and waited for Scotty to come up for air from whatever he was working on to pick up the beacon signal, then he would have been perfectly safe. But the point of the whole marooning of Kirk WAS TO SHOW THAT SPOCK WAS EMOTIONALLY COMPROMISED, and not necessarily making the best decisions.

~FS

1057. Keachick - April 6, 2011

Phil – I think you are twisting much of what I have written on this topic on this thread and others.

The Starfleet model could be more accurately called an evolved natural leadership hierarchy and is based on a fundamental social order that has always existed among human beings and other creatures.

Hierarchy – “1a – a system in which grades or classes of status or authority are ranked one above the other (ranks third in the hierarchy). b – the hierarchical system (government, management, etc). 2 a priestly government….”

Clearly, if there is an authority, there has to be some form of discipline and recognition/understanding of that authority. Promotions and demotions would happen. However, rules of dress and general conduct may not be so strictly defined, allowing for individual choice, hence Deanna Troi wearing a long dress instead of pants.

No, Starfleet could not look like the military of today, but that does not preclude the fleet from carrying defensive weapons and knowing how to use them if they have to. There is a military and intelligence component but it is a secondary function.

The truth is the Federation and Starfleet can only effectively exist as respected organizations if they are prepared to honour certain basic rights and needs of humans and alien races, whether they are aboard a starship or not.

1058. Paige - April 6, 2011

#1056: I’m not claiming that Spock was at his best in that moment. If anything, I’m in full agreement with you, he wasn’t. I’m simply claiming it was the wrong decision to make, and one that, during the movie, gave me pause.

He very much was under emotional distress. And, arguably, not equipped to make the type of decision he made. If he couldn’t be objective, especially with someone’s safety in question (the giant lobster probaby could have done some considerable damage to the shuttle, too, while Kirk was within it, it was certainly big and strong enough) he shouldn’t have made a decision at all (again I point out that the Enterprise has a brig). That he did came off to be more motivated by dislike than actual law and that is what caused me to do a double take and feel… ‘off’ about that scene.

In other words, it was a questionable decision, one that, if Kirk were any lesser of a man, he could have pressed charges against Spock for. Federation Law, according to canon, is very explicit. Spock took that law into his own hands. Emotionally compromised or not, laws are made for a reason, so that when you’re emotionally compromised, you already have a set guideline on what to do to make the decision for you.

Am I saying saying I dislike Spock and trying to come down on the character as a whole? No. He’s one out of of three of my all-time favorite characters. I’m saying his decision, at that moment in time, was wrong. Plain and simple. I forgive him for it, as did, obviously, Kirk, but it was wrong.

I found this quote, from the TOS episode “Court Martial” that sums up my feelings on the subject:

“Rights, sir! Human rights! The Bible, The Code of Hammurabi, and of Justinian, Magna Carta, The Constitution of the United States, Fundamental Declarations of the Martian Colonies, The Statutes of Alpha III. Gentlemen, these documents all speak of rights. Rights of the accused to a trial by his peers, to be represented by counsel, the right of cross-examination. But most importantly, the right to be confronted by the witnesses against him; a right to which my client has been denied.”

1059. Hakka - April 6, 2011

#150, #168 and #222
I totally quote you. One doesn’t need to be a Kirk/Spock shipper, as all Spock/Uhura “haters” are labeled, to not like the couple.
Please, Uhura have the potential to be the (unfortunately the only one) character us girls can “identify” with in the Star Trek Reboot and give her some respect. I don’t “identify” with her because she is with the hot Vulcan, oh so not. I can love Spock generally and Spock/Quinto in this case, and yet I won’t “identify” with Uhura because she doesn’t do a good scene, now that Jeyl (#168) pointed out how little she does. I felt she did at least one good thing (the discover of the Klingon transmission), but now I see: why she haven’t even reported this to anyone above her instead of telling it to Gaila (if she did, we don’t know)? I was already aware (and bitched more than one time) about her “interruption” could have caused Amanda’s death, but… really, treat Uhura as she deserves, please? Do you remember how she kicked in Mirror, Mirror? She was a BAMF and yet human (the moment of fear before going on the bridge)? How she was cool in ST III (in the little part she had)?
Nichelle’s Uhura had less time on screen, compared to ST XI, but did MORE than Zoe’s. We’re in the 21st century now, women have proven to be able to be equal (and even superior sometime) to men and they don’t need to be b!tches or “the main character’s lover” to be so.
At this point what we know about her? She’s a snobbish b!tch (see In Iowa), she “bullies” her way on the Enterprise (Kirk ends up on the Enterprise “illegally” too, but we’re talking about her now. She DESERVED to be on the Enterprise, we all AGREE on this, but the way she says so… doesn’t rub me) and doesn’t do her job (which should be DONE and done FAST since things are critical) to instead go to her fiancé, who has also no second to waste but not, he has to (stupid him too) reassure you he’s fine before going and save his parents. The only “good” thing she does is the “I hope you know what your doing *Captain*” which, though irritating, fitted well in the plot.
Moar females who kick assess by themselves and prove that not only in real life but in movies also women can be as the same level of men without blinking their eyelashes or show some tits (not Zoe!Uhura’s case, fortunately). Give us a non-hottest-girl-of-the-planet actress, give us some “normal” woman so we can like her character NOT for her looks (like Zoe, who is amazingly hot even from a female point of view like mine) but for who she is. I mean, we have Pine but we have also Anton who is cute, Urban who isn’t sexy as he’s usually, Cho who’s nice to look at but not “People’s magazine” material and Pegg who isn’t Brad Pitts.
Oh, and I’m fairly sure women like more to see boys on the posters, so Zoe isn’t there to attract us girls, but perhaps boys (like Megan Fox in Transformers, example).

I also quote for some backlashes after Vulcan’s destruction and Kirk’s fast promotion (ie. some Admiral breathing on Kirk’s neck and Kirk even failing but eventually saving the day).

For the Engineering. I don’t know, I liked the style but I can see why other fans don’t. The ship wasn’t ready to be christened yet, right? So they could have it fixed and, thank to Scotty’s genius, improved. Let our favorite Scot do something more than dreaming about sandwiches: he said himself he wants to put his hands under the Enterprise’s nacelles, so let him do it!

#671. primetime
I do remember an articole on this site about Zoe and her wishes for Uhura in the next movie and she said she wanted more S/U. A poll was in place with four/five options (basically “Hate it! Out of the next movie”, “Keep it, erase it, either way” and “moaar” ) and the articole was, oh my, linked at a Spock/Uhura het com at LJ. So, basically, every ship’s fandon “plays” its part.
And before someone says it! No, I’m not coming from those “crazy Kirk/Spock” coms but from a LJ friends who bitched about the comment #58.

#1032
Just right! The marooning was just… I wanted to slap Spock for that. XD

Anyway, I still love this movie, it’s refreshing, offers a new view and leaves TOS to his magic without “raping” it, as it would have done if the authors tried to take TOS on the big screen instead of rebooting. It’s action and a good way to spend two hours in front of a screen, the effects are good and there is a plot that, despite some holes, works, and the movie doesn’t evolve around the CGI.
Hope to be even more captured by the next movie!

1060. FarStrider - April 6, 2011

@1058 “n other words, it was a questionable decision, one that, if Kirk were any lesser of a man, he could have pressed charges against Spock for. Federation Law, according to canon, is very explicit. Spock took that law into his own hands. Emotionally compromised or not, laws are made for a reason, so that when you’re emotionally compromised, you already have a set guideline on what to do to make the decision for you.”

The whole point was that it was a questionable decision. . . and you must realize that in a battlefield situation (which the Enterprise had been in since dropping out of warp at Vulcan) civilian laws do not matter, military codes of justice, and civilian laws are not the same, and the commander on the field is authorized to make whatever decisions are necessary to protect his troops or win the battle. .. he may have to answer for those decisions later, but no one is going to second guess that decision in a battle situation. And again, given the example of Gary Mitchell in TOS, marooning a crew member who is a danger to the mission and crew, is an acceptable action. . .so, you may not like Spock’s decision or even what you THINK are his motivations here, but it served its purposes in the movie: ie, shows Spock is emotionally compromised, gets Kirk to the same place as Spock Prime, and sets up the climatic fight between the two leads. . . plus it is a callback to the first episode of TOS, and thus is very rooted in TOS tradition.

~FS

1061. Paige - April 6, 2011

#1060: lol, I don’t think we’re ever going to agree because when it comes down to it we’re dealing with a debate on morality. You seem to empathize with Spock’s decision, while I was put off by it. But I’ll bite. I’ve already said that I realize WHY it was done, from a writing standpoint and logistically back on post #1032, my original post on the topic. Thus I’m not questioning it’s use as a writing tool. Yes, there needed to be a way for Reboot Kirk and Spock Prime to meet. We’re agreed there.

I’m questioning it on a moral standpoint in accordance with what we know of Federation Law, which, like “Where No Man Has Gone Before” is also established canon.

Also, the ‘court martial’ is a military law. Or rather, a Starfleet law. Here is what Star Trek wiki has to say on the topic:

“A court martial referred to a judicial proceeding within a military or quasi-military organization, or the officer(s) who sat as a court to conduct the proceeding.

Offenses tried before a court martial ranged from insubordination to culpable negligence to violations of Starfleet General Orders. A member of the service who stood accused was presumed innocent until proven guilty, and the service member was entitled to counsel at the preliminary hearing as well as the general court martial. That right could be waived, or the accused could elect to retain counsel. If this initial inquiry determined that a general court martial should be convened, the prosecution was conducted by a Starfleet Judge Advocate General officer.

No fewer than three officers of command or flag rank comprised the court. The senior officer of the court martial acted as the president. This officer controlled the mode and order of presentation of evidence, as well as making evidentiary rulings. Proof was presented through oral testimony and exhibits, including record tapes. The accused had the right to face his accusers, cross-examine witnesses, as well as to testify.”

And, as I’ve stated previously, the Gary Mitchell situation was a completely different set of circumstances. Kirk and Spock were really left with no choice. Kirk had not wanted to maroon Gary originally, if you recall. And he was thoroughly upset by Mitchell’s ultimate death. Even though Mitchell had tried to kill him, Kirk still marked Mitchell’s death as ‘dying in the line of duty’ in the official report because he did not blame Mitchell for his transformation. Mitchell had incredible power and if there is one centralized theme which could be attributed to that particular episode its ‘absolute power corrupts absolutely’.

There were other choices Spock could have made in the Kirk mutiny during Reboot. Kirk was not all powerful. He was one man on a ship full of security. And the alternate choices Spock could have made would have been more lawful and fitting to the crime.

If anything a closer comparison episode would be “Space Seed”, where Khan tried to take control of the Enterprise and still got a trial. Heck, Khan even got to PICK his punishment. Or, like I mentioned ealier “The Menagerie” where Spock stole the Enterprise and also got a trial for it.

Also, when Kirk committed mutiny in “the Search for Spock”, again by stealing the Enterprise, he was put on trial for it at the end of “The Voyage Home”, and ultimately busted down in rank for it (not that he cared, he had accomplished his goal, Spock and McCoy were safe and he hated being an Admiral anyway).

Logistically, yes, it was a useful plot tool. Morally? I still disagree with it.

1062. anonymous - April 7, 2011

Totally HATED the Spock and Uhura romantic relationship. For me, Star Trek is best as a study about the relationship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy and their differing and contrasting character traits. Uhura should get her own storylines and be strong on her own, not just be Spock’s girlfriend and not as someone whose purpose is to comfort Spock. It would have been much more character defining (and we would have grown to love Spock more) if we could have watched him face tragedy on his own and see the strong, stoic Vulcan that we know and love emerge from that tragedy. The emotionalism and kissing etc. really weakened Spock’s and Uhura’s characters. Also, I found her bitchiness hard to relate to. Too much!
Otherwise the movie was great!

1063. butterfly - April 7, 2011

It doesn’t surprise me that people are calling for more S/U in the next movie because in the last one there is so little of it and what there is doesn’t exactly add up to what I would think of as a romance because there is too much miscommunication and distrust between them.

In the hanger dock Spock wants to put duty before their relationship unwilling to tell her that he is having problems with feeling emotions and still remaining a Vulcan. If she guesses that this might be the case she shows no sign of it, choosing instead to use his Vulcan logic against him in order to get herself onto the ship. She seems satisfied when he gives in rather than bothered that her actions haven’t solved the issues between them.

In the turbo lift, she understandably attempts to comfort him but clearly has no idea what he needs because he will not tell her and she seems not to know him well enough to be able to guess. While the hugging and kissing might work for a human suffering the same trauma it does not work for Vulcan/human hybrid struggling with his emotions.

Uhura plays no part in helping Spock to resolve those issues and so gains no insight into the struggles he faces as a Vulcan/human hybrid so the scene in the transporter room makes no real sense. All she knows is that he lost it on the bridge and now seems more in control of his emotions and that a full on PDA is now in order. Why she would come to this conclusion is not explained.

The romance is further hampered by the fledgling friendship between Spock and Kirk. Two minutes after deciding that Kirk is not the irresponsible and dishonest cadet, he is calling him Jim and trusting him to stand guard while he performs a mind meld. He is also about to entrust him with a personal message for Uhura. In other words, Spock is willing to place his trust in a man he barely knows and not his girlfriend.

At the end of the film he wants to put duty before their relationship again making it clear that the kissing in the transporter room made no difference to their relationship and that in fact he has managed to forge a stronger bond with Kirk.

If the romance is to continue into the next film there needs to be more explanation of why it exists and what if anything it is providing for Spock and Uhura other than a chance to make out in front of their fellow officers. It also needs to be able stand up against that defining relationship Kirk is going to have with Spock. If not then it might as well shelved in favour of a close friendship.

1064. gingerly - April 7, 2011

@1032

It almost came across as Spock sending Jim down there to get him killed.

The way you laid that out, now that could definitely have been plotted better. Mind you, the marooning did come after Vulcan was destroyed and Spock was already compromised. So, it could be attributed to that.

Maybe Spock was trying to get him killed, in a way that distanced himself enough to logically not be to blame.

That would mean Spock actually tried to kill Kirk twice!

1065. gingerly - April 7, 2011

I love the unintentional sociology lesson this thread is providing.

I keep expecting a John Quinones voiceover and a scenario tweak, by age, race, or gender. :)

1066. Aurore - April 7, 2011

335.

Regarding the plight of the Vulcans.

Star Trek : Exodus .

1067. Anthony Thompson - April 7, 2011

I don’t quite understand why Bob thinks he has “all the time in the world” to complete the script. The ’09 film began filming 13 months before it’s original release date. By that measure, filming of Star Trek 2 would need to begin by late May. About 6 weeks from now. You and I know that can’t happen. So the film will have to be less ambitious in scope or it will simply need to be delayed until X-mas of next year.

1068. Aurore - April 7, 2011

“You and I know that can’t happen.”

I’m sorry, ‘talkin’ to me?

I, personally, have no certitudes that it can’t be done.

Could someone please answer Anthony Thompson’s query?

Thanks in anticipation.

:)

1069. FarStrider - April 7, 2011

@1061 I’m not defending Spock’s decision. . . but I do understand that he is not meant to be thinking clearly here. . . Spock is not you or me. . . his morality is not necessarily ours or even human. . . he was the one who suggested killing Gary Mitchell, in cold blood before he became a problem for the ship (and before it was decided to maroon him). Also in “Devil in the Dark” Spock was all for trying to figure out the Horta until it became a threat, and then his line was “Kill it! Kill it now!”. . . this has always been a part of his early character, and the writers correctly picked up on it. . . you may not like it, morality is not universal, and people don’t always act in moral ways when faced with a crisis. . .

~FS

1070. Alex - April 7, 2011

@ Roberto Orci:
In Germany, there is a great scifi convention each year where I think you could get great ideas from the fans for the next Star Trek movie(s).

1071. Anthony Thompson - April 7, 2011

1068. Aurore

Apparently you believe that if the script were submitted today, filming could begin in 6 weeks? Really? First, Paramount must approve the script. Then a budget has to be figured and approved. Then a director must be hired (JJ is no sure thing!). Once that happens, pre-production can begin. That includes hiring a crew, hiring guest stars, choosing an effects company, scouting locations, designing and building sets, etc. All that in 6 weeks??? The process typically takes much longer!

1072. Aurore - April 7, 2011

1071.

Where is Roberto Orci when you need him?!

Anthony, obviously, you know much more than I do on the matter ( filmmaking process).

A few days ago, Mr Abrams said that there were no plans to change the release date of the sequel. So, I assumed that “the team” was on schedule.

Thus, unless I’m told otherwise, yes Anthony, I choose to believe that filming will begin in about 6 weeks.

Naïve, overly optimistic, you say? Hey, I’ve been called worse!

:))

1073. Ro Laren - April 7, 2011

The engineering look never bothered me. The things that bother me are the tidbits that seem “unbelievable” such as rapid promotions. I know that Starfleet is not the US military, but it bothers me when I see things take place that would be unrealistic in the US military structure.

I also wish we learned more about Nero. In a way I feel like he was one of the least important characters in the movie, but as a villain he should have been one of the most important.

1074. Keachick - April 7, 2011

Filming is not meant to start until early August now, although that may have changed also. I think, one of the reasons for the delay in actual filming of star trek was because of Chris Pine’s schedule, but Paramount seemed to have dealt with that obstacle. Chris Pine was due to start filming another Paramount production around April 2011, a Jack Ryan film, but that has been put on hold until whenever (script problems).

Oh the wait, the wait…

“Why are we waiting?…” or so goes the ditty.

1075. Keachick - April 7, 2011

Spock was not able to “properly open up” emotionally to anyone, not even his father. It was only the goading by Kirk, that caused him to finally crack and even then it was his vulcan father who told him that what needs to be said is never unwise. Uhura knew that Spock was half-vulcan so she knew that Spock would not necessarily be able to express affection in the usual human way. The fact is that Spock did acknowledge, appreciate and love Uhura because he allowed her to be her gentle, consoling human self and told her that she and everyone just continue to do what they had been doing so admirably(?). I think that is the word Spock used. BTW, this all happened in the turbolift in private.

The fact that Spock decided to remain with Starfleet had as much to do with Uhura as it did with Kirk, or didn’t. The young Spock was torn between his duties (and no doubt the friendships he had managed to forge) to Starfleet and his need to help/be with his own vulcan people in their time of most dire need. It was the older Spock who told him that they could be in two places at once and this time, to put aside logic and do what FEELS right.

Now the question is – Did Spock do what “felt” right by rejoining the Enterprise and engaging in older relationships as well making new ones or was it a “logical” decision on his part? After all, the older version of himself was already busy helping to build a vulcan colony anyway, so there would not necessarily be any real logical reason for the younger Spock to be there as well, especially when his training, knowledge and expertise could well be sorely needed by Starfleet.

1076. Aurore - April 7, 2011

335.

(Star Trek) : I Thought The Wait Was Over.

:))

1077. gingerly - April 7, 2011

@1076

http://i.imgur.com/7epyZ.gif

1078. gingerly - April 7, 2011

Star Trek: Many Worlds

;)

1079. Anthony Thompson - April 7, 2011

1072. Aurore

Overly optimistic? That’s not such a bad character trait. : ) But let me remind you of something rather important which is already not on schedule: the script. First Bob stated it would be ready X-mas, 2010. Then he promised by the end of March. Now he’s saying that he has “all the time in the world”. See the problem there?

1080. Anthony Thompson - April 7, 2011

BTW, the above is not a criticism of Bob. He obviously just wants to get it right, which is to be applauded. I note the delays only to make clear that they will have an impact on the production schedule.

1081. Jack - April 7, 2011

Clearly, it should be Keeping up with the Cardassians. A little part of me died making that lame joke.

Oh, and from the more vague, useless advice to the writers bin, I’m kind of hoping that this review (from Eye in Toronto) of Hanna might apply to the next Star Trek flick (substitute Abrams for Wright, planets of your choice for the places, if you must, and, maybe, the first Star Trek for Run Lola Run)

“Intelligent, but never reeking of intelligence, Wright strikes a Bourne Identity balance: he’s made a thinking film for action lovers (or an action film for thinkers) that sprints through Morocco, Spain and Berlin with Run Lola Run exuberance.”

I have to say, yet again (sorry) that ideas, smarts and real emotional impact shouldn’t mean talky, slow and pretentious. The “bring back the moral allegories and long speeches” fans scare the heck out of me. The pace of this last one was great. I’d just like a lot more to happen this time around.

1082. Phil - April 7, 2011

1079. Yeah. They probably had the script for the sequel finished before they completed post production on the first movie, and have been bull s***ing us the entire time. Would not be suprised if they are filming as we speak.

1083. dmduncan - April 7, 2011

If the movie is about Talosians, how about a couple words from Shelley’s Ozymandias, or at least thinking along these lines: “Star Trek: Shattered Visage.” Or maybe reflecting the theme of the poem: “Star Trek: Shattered Kings,” the kings being a reference to the Talosians.

Something like that maybe?

1084. Aurore - April 8, 2011

1079.

Anthony, referring to Star Trek 2009, who said:

“…,because we were so used to being secretive about it.”

And;

“We were used to saying we had only seen four lights instead of three lights.”

When you find out, I’m sure you’ll understand why I don’t see any

problem “there”… so far.

:)

1085. drellan - April 8, 2011

Some say leave out a military feel, others say there should be.

Doesn’t Starfleet serve as the major component of defense for Earth, and the Federation in general?

Seems to me, such an organization should have a military structure and discipline – in times of peace or war. Not to would be dangerous.

1086. drellan - April 8, 2011

Should the new movie has a small cameo appearance by Leonard Nimoy as Spock?

1087. Aurore - April 8, 2011

335.

Mr Orci,

Star Trek : Shattered Kings.

That was my idea . The poster in 1083 stole it from me.

I don’t know how,though.

It’s the truth;stranger things have already happened on this site!

The kings, in my view, was a reference to those “mighty who had fallen” ; the

Vulcans!

1088. Rodrigo Carranza Jasso - April 8, 2011

Please Please PLEASE!!!! JUST RESPECT THE CANON!!!! I think the casting for the ST XI was very very good. Also the “Spock’s chilhood story” was very good, but anyhow there were severe misrespects to the canon. On all star trek stories (series, movies, video games, even novels although not completely sure since I haven’t read much), on all of them besides ST XI, Vulcan NEVER imploded in a black hole made by some “red matter” stuff, the engineering seemed more a water treatment plant than an actual Star Trek engineering room, ALL and really ALL spaceships moved at sub-light speed with the impulse drive (those little red things, powered by nuclear reactors, normally in the back part of the saucer section) and not by the warp nassels, and Scotty never had that sort of “Jar Jar Binks” creature, just to mention some of the mistakes in the last movie… Please don’t mess it up even more and understand Star Trek is not and shall never be Star Wars. They are different stories with different ideals and different audiences. Don’t think everyone who wants science-fiction movies just want explotions, “scientific-like” nonsense (like the red matter stuff) and half naked alien-women. Y sólo para finalizar, esto te lo pide uno de los pocos fans de Star Trek mexicanos. Por favor, comprendo que quieras darle un giro novedoso y fresco a Star Trek para dejar tu sello personal en estas nuevas versiones y creo que eso es muy loable y aceptable pero por favor recuerda que Star Trek tiene mucha historia detrás y parte de lo que hace tan grande y tan valiosa a esta historia es que los anteriores escritores han sabido mantener la coherencia general de la historia aun agregando sus aportaciones y sellos personales. Gracias y de verdad espero puedas leer esto aunque tal vez no coincidamos con todos mis puntos de vista. LLAP

1089. Phil - April 8, 2011

1085. Depends on who you listen to here. Starfleet was defined as quasi-military, so it took on the feel of the Navy, which historically has been charged with exploration in the past.

1086. Nimoy has already said no, and has shyed away from token cameo’s in the past. No reason to suspect this should be any different.

1088. It’s been pointed out that there have been hundreds, if not thousands of violations on canon in Star Trek history. Lets not nitpick now, shall we?

1090. femmefan - April 8, 2011

Thank you, Mr. Orci for your continued efforts to ensure that your team creates the best possible ST Reboot sequel by reading comments from ST fans. Although the myriad of complaints and suggestions found in these forums can be mind-numbing and tedious, it is my dearest hope that you are taking them in stride as you continue the daunting task that is this movie.
The elements presented in the 2009 ST were a very welcomed and appreciated surprise for a long time fan, such as myself. I am dismayed at the naysayings of the relationship between Spock and Uhura as I feel that this added a fresh and realistic element to the movie.
Many of the commenters here seem to have either forgotten or ignored the fact that this movie is set in a completely different timeline and that the crew is much younger than the one in the original series.

While I understand the importance of holding true to canon, this movie (in its very different timeline) does not lend itself to following each and every technicality offered in previous canon (and let’s face it,much of it is fanon anyhow). This new movie defines a whole new subset of Star Trek intricacies that will not only revive the franchise, but redefine it for future prospects- the possibilities are endless, really.

I sincerely hope that you and your team stay bold and creative and resist the belaboring of maniacal minutiae that prevails among many fans. A captivating plot with strong characters and stunning effects akin to what you have given us thus far is what I look forward to seeing in your next movie.

1091. Charla - April 8, 2011

Well, late again…. my pc is being restored as we speak- I have missed everything!! :(

*cricket*cricket*

Well here’s a suggestion for a name for the second movie- NCC-1701 with STAR TREK behind it or something to that effect? I don’t recall seeing this in earlier posts.

Not that anyone will see this …. sigh….. well off to the other posts! have lots of catching up to do!

1092. Aurore - April 9, 2011

Great post femmefan. Thank you.

1093. Atlantis - April 9, 2011

Unlike many people (read:fans) here,I never really knew anything substantial about Star Trek until I watched the movie,close to an year after it was released. And believe me when I say that something about the way Spock and Uhura interacted just didn’t feel right. I’m not saying it was something like ‘Gee,why the hell is Spock not crying in Kirk’s arms?’,but even then,something didn’t quite sit well.
After watching the movie,of course I went online and since then have became a huge fan of Star Trek in general and the Reboot in particular. And if the writers are listening,what’s the point in developing something that’s unlikely to continue if you go canon and that will completely distort canon you don’t?
And unlike the other stuff put up there as options,Spock/Uhura isn’t something to with technology or casting or sets;it’s something that completely changes the intention of TOS. This will completely redefine the way Star Trek is looked at. The number of Spock/Uhura and Spock/Kirk (reboot) material available online speaks for itself.In the movie,Spock chose Vulcan over Uhura and Kirk over Vulcan,so you can say that Spock chose Uhura over Kirk in a way. I do not think any girl will tolerate being second on her boyfriend’s list even in the 23rd century. So what I’m trying to say is,don’t ignore the canon.Spock and Uhura are simply not compatible,never in canon and not even in Reboot.

1094. butterfly - April 9, 2011

@1090

What is realistic with an emotionally repressed and conflicted half Vulcan attempting to have a love affair with a human cadet? And this is before his mother dies and his planet is blown up. What on earth is fresh about tacking on an out of place and hopelessly cliched ridden love affair onto a franchise that was always about the friendship between the three main characters that even death could not destroy? Do you really believe that the Oscar nominated Nick Meyer who wrote Star Trek 2, the best Star Trek film ever and mercilessly ripped off by Mr Orci and Mr Kurtzmann, failed to push in an on going romance because he was too dumb to realise that one was needed? No he didn’t put it in because it wouldn’t have made any sense for the characters and really did those ill placed kisses in the transporter room and turbo lift come any where close to the sheer drama and emotion of Kirk’s reaction to Spock’s death and his subsequent funeral?

I’m not even going to waste time pointing out the pretty obvious reasons why this current ‘romance’ is nothing more than an attempt to get teen bums on seats because I see that a good number of people have already done so. All I will say is this, if Orci and Kurtzmann were so keen on the Spock/Uhura farce why then is the third half of the movie given over to Spock Prime waxing lyrical about his great friendship with Kirk so much so that a dropped scene actually has him producing a pendant containing a hologram of the man himself going on about them spending the rest of their lives exploring the stars together? Why too is there no mention of Uhura and the great romance Spock could have with her not to mention pointy eared babies? The best thing they could do for the next movie is to quietly pretend this travesty never happened.

1095. Atlantis - April 9, 2011

Star Trek has always had plot holes the size of your average M-class planets..Of course it would be simply great if they could make every single fact perfectly true,but that’d be a bit boring,don’t you think? These people are entertainers,not scientists.
Having said that,of course there needs to be some basic logic behind everything – no one’s debating that – but not something like ‘photon torpedoes work only at 90% power and Warp 1 combined with the Xumenga tactic maneuver’ . It’s fiction,what the hell.
All in all,it could’ve been much,much worse. I couldn’t find (too many things) anything wrong with it till I stumbled here.

1096. Atlantis - April 9, 2011

@1094
Agree Totally! But the worst part is,not even the ‘teen bums’ are interested.

1097. Aurore - April 9, 2011

@1077.

Alright, alright. So, how about :

(Star Trek) : Nero You Liar You Said the Wait Was Over. (?)

:))

1098. femmefan - April 9, 2011

On a slightly off tangent (but not really)…..

I think that fans have to understand also, what the intention of the original creator (Mr. Roddenberry) had in creating each character and the dynamic they would have with one another in TOS. In order to do this, I think it’s important to examine the era when TOS was airing (1966). The politics of discrimination really limited Hollywood’s potential then and many creative and daring writers and producers were at the mercy of a racially cautious industry. This is clearly evident in any material birthed from that era.

After reading the biographies of the original cast members over the years (not just Shatner’s, Nimoy’s or Nichols’ either) , it is evident to me that Roddenberry wanted to have a positive, progressive voice in Hollywood and used ST as a means to do just that.

Perhaps other readers will be rolling their eyes and going “yeah, yeah, what does this have to do with anything”—well plenty, actually. One realization could be that the original episodes of ST were often rejected for one thing or another after much scrutiny (too brainy, may not appeal to viewers because of heavy sci fi emphasis, not enough shots of particular women, too many lines for other particular women, etc). One can imagine how such working restrictions can alter the finished product.
I preface with the above to say that I do believe that Roddenberry intended to portray more personal intimate relationships between certain members in the show outside of the ones known presently. Was Spock and Uhura such an intended pairing? I don’t know with absolute certainty, but it certainly isn’t impossible. It appears to me that he was trying to do his part to break down those racial barriers (all of us long-time fans can pull out any number of scenes from episodes to support this).
So if your argument against Uhura/Spock in the ST reboot is based on the opinion that ‘there was never anything shown between them in the original series’, well perhaps that was only due to the fearful and intolerant environment prevalent at the time. With those barriers out of the way, for the most part, now is the best time to move forward with what could have/should have been. I don’t necessarily think that the S/U relationship is in itself inappropriate, but the characters must be very careful here to stay within their roles. While Spock is of both races, he can’t be portrayed as being too human, although in TOS his human side was pretty non-existent (detested at times, even) and Uhura can be intelligent and strong without being mean (to Kirk). I think that it can be done…and that would be a treat to see continued.

1099. femmefan - April 9, 2011

Just wanted to mention that ,no I am not a teen bum and I have been faithfully watching Star Trek for 26 years.

1100. maria bianci - April 9, 2011

I loved it! It was so much faster than previous trek’s but in a way it needed that kind of boost and im glad they did it. for some reason the spock Uhura fling did’nt sit well with me. I hope in the new movie Uhura is less angry and shout’s less, becasue she’s allways the strong kind of woman who has enough presence to not need to do those things. Plus another thing that i really loved about the new trek was the HUMOUR!! dont take the humour away!!!

1101. Aurore - April 10, 2011

Well !

After all those fine contributions on my part, and, as a consultant, Mr Orci, let

us now talk salary…

:)

1102. Aurore - April 11, 2011

In 1087:

The kings, in my view, was = The word “kings” , in my view, was…

Still here?

GET A LIFE!!!

:))

1103. Aurore - April 11, 2011

@1102

Oh, the irony…

1104. Aashlee - April 11, 2011

OK, Orci-Kurtzman packed an awful lot into the movie. Well, many, many things had to happen to reset “Star Trek,” and, to borrow a phrase, I think that they did so “admirably.” The original universe had 79 episodes and several movies to “make it so.” “Star Trek” (2009) had under 2 hours, so I’ll forgive some of the deus ex machina that happened to get things rolling in this universe.

If fans complain that these characters are not the ones they knew in TOS, well, DUH! Of course they are not. Their universe is different. And, they are younger. Kirk didn’t grow up with his father as a stabilizing force in his life. Instead he had “Frank,” who probably made his life hell, so he didn’t have much chance of becoming that grim “stack of books with legs” that we heard about in TOS. Spock grew up in a Federation made more xenophobic by the destruction of the Kelvin, so he probably had a more difficult childhood than his TOS counterpart did because of his exoVulcan roots. When he met Uhura, he was younger, probably more pliable and rebellious than the older TOS Spock we saw, so if he decided to embark on a romance, it would not be completely out of the question. His father, after all, also fell for a human woman. And who says that Spock-Uhura necessarily were sexually active? Believe it or not, not all relationships before marriage (or bonding) are sexual — many people DO wait. Spock and Uhura are sensible adults. Although they have an illicit “affinity” for one another, they may have decided not to complicate things with a sexual relationship until they can do so without greater repercussions.

I do believe that Orci-Kurtzman caught the basic essence of each character; again, their differences are a reflection of their age and their post-Kelvin universe. It all made sense to me. The clues throughout the movie were there if people paid attention and thought about what they were seeing. I enjoyed the humor throughout except the Scotty-in-the-pipes thing. I would have liked more Sarek-Amanda footage in its place.

What would I like to see in the next movie? More McCoy, definitely, as the Big Three develop their relationship. I also want a little more background on Spock-Uhura. I think all these relationships can co-exist because these main characters are adults who can handle more than one relationship in their life, and the relationships enrich each character and promote revelations about each one. I DON’T want any stupid love triangles.

Good luck, Bob Orci. I like your work. I look forward to seeing the results next summer. (Oh, by the way, I love the new Hawaii 5-O, too!)

1105. drellan - April 11, 2011

What characters do you think were best cast?
What characters were worst cast?
What characters should be added in future movies (crew/officers – not villains)?

My picks:
Best Cast: Captain Pike, Spock (both actors), McCoy, Uhura, and Sarek.

Worst Cast: Checkov, Scotty

Future characters to add (a wish list to pick from – not necessarily ALL characters at once): Saavik (as a child), Admiral Archer, T’pol (she’s hot!), Dr. Carol Marcus, David Marcus (his birth).

1106. drellan - April 11, 2011

Oh, another character to definately add to the wish list for the next movie:

Guinan

1107. MSN1701 - April 11, 2011

Good lord, people who don’t like Spock/Uhura aren’t racists. We just thought the relationship came out of nowhere! There was zero development it was just like BAM here they are. A couple.

And girls didn’t just go for the Spock/Uhura romance. I’m a girl and that was my least favorite part of the movie. If she has to be paired with someone, why not Scotty? Scotty rules!

1108. Aurore - April 11, 2011

I would much rather see Miramanee and “the child that never was”, if the writers were to **allow** Kirk to have a love interest from the Prime universe.

I always resented the way in which Carol Marcus was portrayed .

However, of course , things could be different in this alternate reality . She could have a lasting relationship with Kirk, but, then again ,so could Miramanee (or some other “relevant” female character Kirk Prime knew, for that matter).

I wouldn’t mind being introduced to totally new characters though, provided they were well-written .

In fact, whether they are from the Prime universe or not, above all, I need to care for the characters. Thus, if their fate matters to me, the newcomers, so to speak,if there are any, will be most welcome to the Star Trek family.They could be an enriching addition to the franchise, I think.

1109. tetsu-kitsune - April 11, 2011

personaly i think there should be more of the chemistry the tos series had, because right now its like
kirk >>> mccoy (buddy’s)
mccoy >>> spock (hate)
kirk >>> spock ( ??? where is the love???)

1110. theGan - April 12, 2011

I loved the movie: pretty simple.
The story is so solid and captivating that made me saying “Hell yeah!” even if I’m an hardcore TOS fan.

A sore spot now: Spock and Uhura romance.
Don’t get me wrong I love both character dearly, but I think that Uhura was more depicted as “Spock’s girlfriend” than a woman who stands on her own. I hope that in the next movie they will pass out their previous relantionship more like “friends that have consoled each other in a hard moment”, then lovers.
They were a surprising match (my father was totally like “well..I didn’t see that coming”), but I really hope that they will in future depicted only as friends.

Sorry for my poor writing, I’m not a mother tongue (italian)

1111. Iva - April 12, 2011

Total Votes: 5, 001 Nice.

Too bad only a handful leave a comment.

1112. Kaprica9 - April 17, 2011

I hate to put myself in the anti-Spock/Uhura camp, but that’s where I stand.

Actually it’s mostly just the Uhura part for me. What happened?? Uhura was such a strong, confident character, but always at the same time a kind and considerate person. Sure I get that the depiction of woman in film has changed with the times, but really?

The other thing I always loved about the character was that they never placed her in a relationship. Defiantly an inspiration for the young woman I was when I first watched TOS.

It was defiantly heartbreaking to see my favorite character so disregarded and treated as little more then a plot device. Almost a step backwards if you will.

((Also the Trekkie in me is all like “What about T’Pring??” Sure she’s probably dead, but what about before Vulcan exploded?))

1113. chrissie - April 18, 2011

First off TOS Spock/Uhura is not and never was canon. Rule of thumb if it ain’t on the screen it’s not canon. So unless I’ve been watching the wrong TOS there was never any real hint of these two being couple material. As someone pointed out earlier that just something cooked up by Nichelle Nicholls to entertain audiences at conventions.

Second, NuSpock/Uhura – laughably ill defined. Professor Spock messing around with a student, especially a human when he is trying his best to be all Vulcan is just plain ridiculous. Uhura sleeping with a professor – nothing short of distasteful. It would have made so much more sense if they were just friends with Uhura trying her best to help Spock come out of his self imposed shell. It doesn’t help that she appears to use their relationship to get herself onto the ship because no way would she be speaking like that to any other commanding officer and getting away with it.

Thirdly those kisses in the lift and transporter room. Spock is in the process of going into meltdown was he really in the mood to be making out with anyone? Is Uhura really so dense that she would think that was exactly the sort of thing that an emotionally compromised Vulcan would need? Clearly, because she heads back her post apparently happy that she has sorted him out. How much better would it have been to leave it at the hug? But no that wouldn’t have been Stars Wars enough for old JJ and it wouldn’t have appeased that part of the audience who can’t watch a movie unless at least someone gets macked on even if it makes no real sense and adds nothing to the overall plot. As for the kiss in the transporter room in full view of Kirk and Scotty, what was this supposed to convey – that after a breakdown on the bridge and a small conversation with his father that the private and discreet Spock was now fine with full on PDAs? And how would Uhura know this as they haven’t exactly had any kind of a conversation, or is it that when all else fails she just resorts to locking lips?In a way it’s understandable because she and Spock don’t get even one meaningful conversation in the entire film. Nothing that would explain why they are together, or that she has any more of an understanding of Spock than anyone else. Not even his over the top behaviour in marooning Kirk and then strangling him clue her into the fact that there might be something wrong with him. She isn’t even the one who finally forces Spock to show emotion that is all down to Kirk and she certainly isn’t the one who is going to change his life.

Finally, Uhura has always had the potential to be an interesting character. The only woman up on that bridge with balls enough to command if only someone would just let her. It’s a crying shame to reduce her to the level of a token bit of skirt to a main character who is part of an epic friendship with the other main character. That being the case Mr Orci what the heck is the point of their relationship? Please do us and the franchise a favour and in the next movie develop Uhura’s character by putting her on an equal footing with the other characters and for heaven’s sake forget about this directionless relationship. That kind of thing might work for other movies but it has no place in Star Trek especially if it is going to be treated so half-heartedly.

1114. Kc - April 20, 2011

I really don’t think anyone is ‘racist’ here as some posts imply. I just think there is a LOT of people who want to see Spock and Kirk get it on. I’m a college student and all girl but honestly I would like more action and less focus on the romance. I’ve only seen a few of the old William Shatner ones and I don’t know if it’s the more ‘openness’ of the century but I don’t even have to squint when seeing the old episodes to get a “I wanna jump you” vibe from Spock and Kirk.
So really more characterization with only tolerable amounts of angst, less romance and deeper friendship between Spock and Kirk. Throw in some light flirt/teasing between the two, uncover a conspiracy and I think you’re set for the next movie.

1115. chrissie - April 21, 2011

@ 1114

I wouldn’t take any notice of the accusations of racism. That and the accusation of nazism is the way that many posters on Star Trek forums or otherwise seek to win arguments.

Roddenberry was a liberal and his views form the back bone of TOS which preaches tolerance and acceptance. Surely that’s the reason the friendship at the heart of it all is between two beings who superficially should have nothing in common. I find it hard to believe that long time fans wouldn’t have picked on that fact and would freak out at the idea of a black woman in a relationship with a white guy or alien which let’s face it is hardly the shocking thing it would have been in the 1960’s.

I agree that I would rather Star Trek be about that soul deep friendship between Spock and Kirk than an on going romance between Spock and a minor character and no I’m saying that to be nasty, that is exactly what Uhura and the other, minus McCoy are and always have been.

1116. Sean - April 22, 2011

Why was the Enterprise built in a farm field in Iowa? How did they launch it into space? Aren’t these types of starships supposed to be built in a space dock?

1117. lilyflower - April 27, 2011

HATED

The destruction of Vulcan – over the top and is it never to be mentioned again?

Nero, the campest villain since Ming the Merciless.

Scotty’s new and moronic character.

The green thing he has as a friend.

17 year old boy geniuses. Children and teenagers have no business on Star ships.

Engineering which looks exactly like a brewery because it is one.

The bridge which is too big and it’s hard to work out where everyone is sitting in relation to everyone else.

Spock being emotional and bitchy even before the call from Vulcan.

Kirk being too much of a frat boy jerk. Who would want to be friends with this guy let alone sleep with him?

Spock marooning Kirk on Delta Vega for talking back and no one but McCoy calling him out on it.

Spock doing his ‘I’m a conflicted half Vulcan’ routine. Have we been through this before?

Karl Urban giving a bad impersonation of DeForest Kelley instead of doing something new with the McCoy character.

Bitchy Uhura.

Spock and Uhura romance because these two have no chemistry and Star Trek is all about Spock, Kirk and McCoy.

Zachary Quinto’s voice which in no way compares to Leonard Nimoy’s.

Kirk’s hologram scene being dropped because it would have properly set the scene for that epic friendship and it would have been nice to see Shatner’s Kirk again perhaps for the very last time.

LOVED

Those few scenes with Leonard Nimoy as Spock Prime.

Sorry that is all I could come up with for this bit because in my opinion this movie really sucked.

1118. Derek - April 29, 2011

Engineering was so out of synch with the rest of the ship. Walk from shiny gleaming future tech bridge and hallway, into a brewery… it would be like getting on the elevator in a modern office building and getting off in an Egyptian temple with stone walls and sand floors. Apparently the Enterprise is STEAM powered and built out of WWI surplus parts… but it’s got a bitchen water slide.

1119. Derek - April 29, 2011

BTW Spock doesn’t have a LOVE interest…. he’s a Vulcan, giving Spock a girlfriend is like making Hannibal Lector a vegetarian…

1120. austen - May 2, 2011

It’s so good to read all these comments from people who like me didn’t think blowing up Vulcan was a good idea, felt Kirk being made a captain literally overnight made sense, that Nero was just a cut price Khan, or that Spock would have been happy kissing Uhura all over the ship and in front of his fellow officers. Or that he would be involved with her in the first place because that’s just not what his character has ever been about and really who wants a permanently over emotional Vulcan? That’d be as bad as Data and his emotion chip.

None of these things felt like Star Trek or the characters that most of us been fans of for years and if the aim is to make them completely unrecognisable then why bother to call it Star Trek and raise our hopes?

My hope for the new film is that we get characters that we actually recognise and a story that is about something and not just an excuse for bad one liners, space battles and explosions which don’t add up to anything more than a flimsy attempt at a plot or a need to shock.

1121. Jason - May 3, 2011

Who wants to see the exact same thing over and over? I for one welcome a little change.
Sounds like to me some people want to see Star Trek reworked but exactly the same as the old!?!?
I do agree that engineering was a little off from the rest of the ship.

1122. Sesh - May 10, 2011

Fave part of 2009 movie: Spock/Uhura romance!

biggest nit-pick: quick promotions.

1123. J - May 11, 2011

My biggest nitpick is people who claim Spock/Uhura won’t work because he’s Vulcan. Um… obviously you’ve forgotten some crucial information here, folks. The whole human/Vulcan relationship has been done successfully so do your research before you argue. Spock’s dad married two human women in the original canon and only parted from both of them because of death.

1124. --isobel - May 11, 2011

Looks like the poll is closed for me, but not the comments.

Destroying Vulcan was a poor choice, unless you count the potential story lines it opens up. Half the galaxy is going to be jockeying for power after the destruction of one of the anchor planets, and most of one of the most influential species, in the Federation. Which reminds me, that ‘endangered species’ line — petaQ! The Vulcans are out there, all over the place. There had to be more than 10,000 of them off planet.

The beer factory for engineering? Really?

I DON”T have a problem with Spock and Uhura’s relationship as portrayed in the movie. He’s a different person than he was in TOS, with different life experiences and different motivations. It you actually WATCHED TOS and not just read the fan fiction, you would note that Spock and Nyota had some kind of relationship. She could tease him, and it was okay. He would pick her up from the floor, sometimes when it would have been quicker and easier for others to assist. And where did she get that Vulcan lyre and why did he smile when she sang to him?

My goodness, he was always flirting with the ladies on the show and watching backsides. This is just a more out there version of what was portrayed on the TV.

–isobel

1125. slippery_stone - May 11, 2011

The main thing I don’t like, after multiple viewings of the movie both in the theatre and at home, are all the lens flares. Sure, lots of people LOVE them, but not me. A few are fine, but all the time? It’s overkill and distracting.

1126. Kate - May 11, 2011

I absolutely loved the look of the ship, and the lensflares are brilliant. I was especially happy with Engineering, because it LOOKS LIKE ENGINEERING SHOULD! It shouldn’t look like another Bridge full of computer panels and in TNG, for example, that’s exactly what it looked like. Let there be grease & oil cans!

I do hope that in the next movie there’s an equal balance of Jim, Bones & Spock, the way it was envisioned in the original series. By the end of the last movie, it felt as though it was going to be all ‘Jim and Spock are the team that save the universe’, with Bones left on the outside. That would be a crying shame.

1127. austen - May 11, 2011

@1124

Spock and Uhura have no relationship inTOS other than colleagues and there is nothing on screen to suggest otherwise. In the Man Trap she flirts with him for two seconds because she is bored. He has no clue what she is going on about and looks at her as if she is crazy. In the same conversation Uhura is appalled at his lack of emotion at the news that a crewman has died. Later in the same episode, the salt monster changes into an image of Uhura’s ideal man who definitely isn’t Spock and who tells her he knows what she needs and speaks to her in a language she understands. Heaven only knows how this can be translated into a Spock/Uhura romance.

In Charlie X Uhura sings teasingly to Spock but in the same scene she also sings teasingly to Charlie and to Janice Rand. Does this mean she is involved with them? Yes, Uhura played the Vulcan lyre in Conscience of the King but Spock is not in the scene when she does so and there is no evidence that the thing belongs to him or that he taught her to play it. More than likely it was just cheaper to reuse the same prop than make or buy another one. Spock picks Uhura up off the floor but so does Kirk. Is that evidence that there might be some kind of threesome?

As for Spock smiling at Uhura, he smiles at Kirk in the opening scene of Where No Man Has Gone Before and again in Mudd’s Women because at this point Nimoy and the producers had yet to get a proper handle on the character. That only begins to happen during the Corbomite Manoever, after which Spock is not seen smiling at anyone unless under the influence of spores, regression, mind control and sheer relief that he hasn’t murdered Kirk.

Comments that Spock is a different person in the new movie are complete rubbish. The filmmakers go out of their way to illustrate the similarities. Kirk refuses to accept the no win scenario and is destined to be captain of the Enterprise. Spock struggles to balance emotion and logic is ashamed of feeling friendship and love and is destined to be by Kirk’s side. Spock Prime even pops up quoting lines from The Wrath Of Khan to make sure we understand that this is the case.

I don’t understand why you would have no problems with the Spock/Uhura romance, it’s adds nothing to the plot of the film, reduces Uhura to the level of love struck teenager as she is the one insisting on being on the same ship as Spock and pursuing him into turbo lifts and transporter rooms. It’s also completely overshadowed by Spock’s interactions with Kirk. But hey, each to his own, just please don’t try and make out it was always canon because it isn’t.

1128. Iva - May 11, 2011

I guess that means he and the space hippie who had a go on his lyre were intimately close,
because there is no other way he would hand it to anybody who politely asked for it. He was also flirting with him later because he accepted his invite to play for the audience along with other hippies.
(I guess that also means I had an orgy with other choir members in my high school days each time we sang together.)

Oh, two details – Smiley Spock from the early episodes isn’t considered canon by Gene, and would never have happened if those episodes were later in the series. Because, as explained by him, Spock’s character was not established yet at the time they were filmed.

1129. Suprised!! - May 11, 2011

I am suprised that the destruction of Vulcan is not what most “trekkies” disliked about the new movie. This makes me wonder how many “trekkies” are really on this post. The whole “thing” about Star Trek is how all species interact with each other and this is where the Spock/Uhura relationship fits in. Those who have watched all the Star Trek TV spin off”s will know that the crew members were always emotionally involved with each other. For instance, in the TV series “Enterprise” Trip was having a relationship with T’Pol. In the TV series “The Next Generation” Riker was having a relationship with Deanna Troy. These are were inter-species relationships, this is the norm in Star Trek. More baffling in the new movie, is the destruction of the majority of the Vulcan race, this will have a tremendous effect on the evolution of the race and their technological contributions and leadership role in the Federation.

1130. Taylor - May 13, 2011

I greatly resent the handful of posts that suggests that people dislike Spock/Uhura because it’s an interracial or interspecies relationship. I for one know that race doesn’t have a thing to do with my own opinions on the matter, and I’d like to think that most Star Trek fans would feel the same way, since it is Star Trek, which is so devoted to showing diversity. I think the fans reflect that.
To the people who say S/U is canon because of two measly episodes: By that logic, there is FAR more support in canon for a romantic relationship between Kirk and Spock. I know that would be MY best case scenario, but I also know how big of a turn off that would be to so many other fans, and that a K/S relationship is just not very feasible.
Nevertheless, the friendship between Kirk and Spock can NOT be ignored. The two of them fit together as a command team in ST 2009, but their relationship was so much more than that. I really think it’s important to develop the relationship between them, to show that it’s possible that they could be just as close, to show how much like brothers they become, how much they depend on eachother. Would 2009 Kirk ever risk everything going back to Genesis to save Spock? Hell no, he wouldn’t. That friendship is one of the most integral things in TOS and It really needs to be addressed. This little rivals with respect thing they’ve got going is great for plot in 2009, but if it continues on it is a disrespect to their origins, in my opinion.
As for Uhura, I would LOVE to see more character development for her where she’s important as more than just a main character’s love interest. The legacy that her character leads deserves it.
Those are my personal suggestions for the future. Spock/Uhura was really terrible, in my opinion, but not unforgivable. Overall I think that everyone who worked on the movie did a fantastic job with everything, and I really look forward to seeing where these movies go from here!!

1131. Some people....... - May 13, 2011

Posting the same arguments over and over ad nauseum doesn’t make it true, does it? We heard you the first time, and NO Spock and Kirk is NOT canon. That bit of reasoning is coming from your vivid imagination. Spock and Kirk was NEVER written as lovers, but brothers. Do you really think they wrote a gay theme in the sixties when they could barely tolerate a black woman on the show? And I’m not going to even get into the misogyny. But some of you think a gay theme was written? Totally illogical. Everything does not come with sexual over or under tones. If some of you want to see it that way–fine! But also know that’s a vision that is coming from your “imaginations” and too many fan-fiction stories. At this point…I’m starting to wonder if some of you are having trouble discerning reality from fiction.

1132. Luce - May 31, 2011

Dear number 1131,
As yours is likely the only comment I’ll probably read and as the time for opinions that matter has probably reached the expiration date, you get to be the unfortunate victim of my insomnia. Let me begin by saying that your statement about everything and it’s regards towards sexual tones, whether over or under made me laugh. Now, as a person who is not overly sexual myself, I find this to be a blatant lie especially when it comes to movies.

Unfortunately my opinion is rather biased I guess because I am a fan of K/S. However, Gene Roddenberry himself made this comment in reference to the two in question: “Yes, there’s certainly some of that — certainly with love overtones. Deep love. The only difference being, the Greek ideal– we never suggested in the series– physical love between the two. But it’s the– we certainly had the feeling that the affection was sufficient for that, if that were the particular style of the 23rd century.” Maybe I’m wrong, but today we do have a more progressive mindset and I like think our opinions will keep up with this more open minded trend.

1133. Some people....... - May 31, 2011

Dear number 1132…..

Fact: Spock/Uhura is canon, K/S is not and never will be. It’s funny that you took that quote from Roddenberry and took it to mean a love affair between S/K as if two men can’t be in a deep loving relationship “as brothers”. More opened minded??? Open to what? K/S fantasy land? The writers have shown us and told us these were alternate versions of characters, having alternate experiences in their alternate universe. Their experiences are real and valid in their fictional world, and as soon as some of you stop trying to turn them into TOS characters the better off you’ll be. The writers and director are not taking these characters back to TOS mode to fulfill fan wank. You’ve been shown that, and you’ve been told that. Now it’s up to you if you want to stay in fanfiction land. Spock and Uhura are a couple in this universe. So be more opened minded and except the changes that JJ and co. have implemented, and realize that K/S is an imaginary ship born out of the K/S fanfiction community.

1134. Marz - July 26, 2011

First, I want to say how much I appreciate the fact that Roberto Orci is actually taking the time to find out what the “people” have to say. :) So thank you so, so much.

The only thing that didn’t sit right with me was the Spock/Uhura romance. I’ve glanced through the thousand or so comments before mine and see this is a highly argued point. To me, it just seemed to come out of nowhere. I felt like the thought was ‘every movie needs romance, so here’s how we’ll do it’. I don’t know if that’s honestly how it went (most likely not), but that’s how it felt to me. I am an avid fan of TOS and I don’t remember ever feeling like Uhura and Spock had romantic feelings for each other.

I understand that this is an alternate universe, but I’m having a hard time reconciling Spock from TOS with Spock from 2009 in regards to this romance. Throughout the entire TOS series, Spock is trying to find himself, trying to find a balance between his Vulcan and Human halves. I don’t see how a romantic relationship would fit into that. Even in TOS, the only time he was even remotely romantic was under the influence of spores in episode ‘This Side of Paradise’.

Other than that, there was nothing that stood out to me. Engineering didn’t even occur to me until I found this site. Though, now that it’s been brought to my attention, there may be a point there. However, since I never noticed on my own, I don’t see it as a very big deal. :)

I’ll admit that I was nervous going into the movie, but I greatly enjoyed it. It’s been (and still is) hard for me to see these new actors as Jim, Spock, and McCoy. The originals will always have my heart, but these new guys are quickly finding room for themselves. Spock being my favorite character of all time, I found myself being highly critical of Zachary Quinto. I’m happy to say, he did not disappoint. I’m proud to say he did my favorite character justice and I am so, so grateful. When I saw that Karl Urban was playing Bones, I was very excited. I’ve always enjoyed his work and this was no different. I absolutely loved the griping about the transporter that was his intro into the movie. Epic win!!! As for Chris Pine, I loved him! I think he was an excellent Kirk. I could go on to say how everyone else was great, too, but then this comment would get really ridiculous. (Like it isn’t already…)

I don’t remember which commenter said it, but I’d like to agree that something that needs to be explored in the new movie is the relationship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. Spock/McCoy banter was one of my favorite parts of TOS. They “argue” all the time, but you can tell that they care very much for each other. My other favorite part of TOS was the Kirk/Spock relationship. It’s so clear that they’re best friends and brothers. Kirk is Spock’s T’hy’la. Take that as you will. If you doubt that, just go watch movie three, ‘Search for Spock’. One thing William Shatner was fantastic at was showing Kirk’s affection for Spock. Throughout the entire series, you can see the fondness on his face.

Sorry this comment is so long, but I don’t know of any place else I could say all this and have it be heard by the appropriate people. I think you all did a fantastic job with this movie and I can’t wait to see the next one. Oh! And thank you, thank you, thank you, for including Leonard Nimoy as Spock one last time. It meant so much to me, kind of a chance to say goodbye. Zachary Quinto, you have your work cut out for you. :)

1135. Talisha Hibdon - August 9, 2011

Please end the Spock/Uhura romance. I was introduced to Trek for the first time via this movie, and even without knowing the characters fully, I felt that this couple just didn’t work. Seeing Spock with ANYONE felt absolutely bizzare, and frankly rather forced and unnatural. I ended up wincing every time they were together. Now, having watched the TOS, my original observation feels even more justified.

Please bring the focus back on the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic. I really feel McCoy was put on the back burner in favour of featuring more of Uhura as the wedge between Kirk and Spock. Which just feels wrong. Uhura can be amazing and important without needing to validate her existence by throwing her into a relationship with one of the leads, a romance which never existed or was even hinted at in the original series.

You can end their relationship in any number of legitimate ways. You could have Spock acting too cold and remote after the trauma of having his world destroyed, and Uhura can realize that romance will just complicate things. She might also require more open affection than Spock is ever willing to allow. They can then break up and as a result Spock will be far more open to the companionship that Kirk will undoubtedly be eager to offer.

What I would really like by the end of the movie is to see the two of them playing 3d chess, hinting at the epic lifelong friendship that is inevitably to come. Neither of these men ever settle for a woman because it was ultimately not what these two needed. A relationship of equals based of friendship and professional and personal respect is what they need. They are friends, brothers, “t’hy’la” as Gene Roddenberry himself named them in his novelisation of the original Motion Picture. Give us t’hy’la. Give us the band of brothers. It is what I think the fans of the original series miss the most.

1136. eimeo - August 9, 2011

Loved the 2009 movie but seriously – please – NO MORE Spock/Uhura. It doesn’t work for her and it doesn’t work for the Kirk-Spock dynamic. I know I’m echoing what others have said (especially 1135 – agree with everything there!) but I have so much love for the reboot it’s not even normal and I just think the S/U is absolutely jarring. Making the only major female character The Girlfriend is dismissive and kind of patronizing. Also, I don’t buy that it’s in character for Spock. And I love Spock!

1137. Sarah - August 15, 2011

I really hope that Spirk, Spork, K/S, makes it into the sequel. I recognized it even when I was 7 years old living in a muslim household. I may not say it out loud but secretly it’s canon to me and I know of plenty of other secret fans of the pairing as well, who might not approve of it but can’t say that it isn’t there.

1138. cmfry - September 10, 2011

I absolutely LOVED the movie. I’m an author and I recognize all of the planning that has to go into making a story work with plot and characters, and all of the elements. I thought the Reboot did a superb job in showing how one incident can have a causal effect that stretching across, well, decades, and it will be further still, as the changes will now be continuous.

My only real problem was the romance between Spock and Uhura. I understand that they may have a romantic relationship in the beginning, but I was a huge fan of the Original Series when I was little and am still completely addicted to it now. Anyone can see that Roddenberry had put little insinuations of a romance or at least romantic tension between Spock and Kirk throughout every episode. I think it would be an absolute shame, and near a sacriligeous act, to ignore the vision that man had, in a time when it was necessary for it to be subtle.

So, please – Spock and Kirk need to be together. In a world that, current times, is finally learning to accept people who are different, we can at least show a homosexual pairing in a futuristic world, that was meant to be, clearly, as the original author intended.

1139. file_name - October 10, 2011

I really liked the movie, but not until I’d gone back and seen the show. The nostalgia factor is overwhelming for these movies and seeing TOS again is amazing. However, after seeing the show and the other star trek movies, Spock/Uhura – which I’d felt nothing for before – really began to bother me like nothing else. So much so that I’ve stopped rewatching the movie since those parts make my eyes hurt. I really hope that gets taken out. Not only does this break up the Scotty/Uhura cannon, but it also sort of makes the movie seen prejudiced. Looking back at the old show, love it or hate it, Kirk/Spock are as cannon as you could be in the 60s without angering your audience. They’ve always had an intimate friendship and most episodes had a lot of hinting. They shared secret smiles and light touches; both of them set aside their orders from Star Fleet to save the other; Spock is willing to go against his principles of nonviolence if it means keeping Kirk out of danger, and Kirk not only lost a son for Spock, but was also willing to destroy the enterprise for him. They’ve held hands and in the books, Spock has called Jim t’hy’la – Rodenberry’s own work, if i remember right. Friend, brother, lover. And within the series alone, he calls Kirk the first two out loud. Star Trek has always been defiant in the face of boundaries. It had what people usually classify as the first interracial kiss and had a Russian navigator during times that were volatile and both probably made a few people angry. I honestly hope these movies don’t break from that brave tradition.

1140. Elizabeth - January 16, 2012

I completely agree with 1138 and 1139. At the very least the abomination that is the Spock/Uhura romance must be destroyed — violently. While I absolutely love both characters, there are way too many problems, as well as it is honestly just gag-worthy. Furthermore, if the producers and writers are truly dedicated to following Gene Roddenberry’s fantastic vision, they must incorporate at least the subtleties of Spock and Kirk’s relationship, if not follow through with what Roddenberry clearly had in mind, but could not execute because of the limitations of his era.

In an interview, Roddenberry stated “I definitely designed it as a love relationship…Also, dramatically, I designed Kirk and Spock to complete each other…certainly with love overtones. Deep love.”

When asked about the comparison between Kirk/Spock and the Greek leader Alexander and his second in command Hephaistion, who had a physical, homosexual relationship, one where they essentially lived for each other, Roddenberry said that that kind of relationship between Kirk and Spock was definitely there, “The only difference being, the Greek ideal- we never suggested in the series – physical love between the two. But it’s the – we certainly had the feeling that the affection was sufficient for that”.

Roddenberry himself has admitted that if physical love between two men were acceptable to his original fan base, it would probably have been there. Again, the implication of a sort of tension between Kirk and Spock was clearly in ToS, and should, without a doubt, be included now, if not expanded upon, given the new millennium and new acceptance of such things. Star Trek has been a pioneering series, and needs to continue that wonderful tradition in the light of a new era. The world would benefit immensely from it.

1141. Dom - March 9, 2012

Clearly the delusional Kirk/Spock slash fans cheated the poll voting for Spock and Uhura and after years they still do that. Doesn’t surprise me. Guys you aren’t even original (also spreading the word in other sites asking K/S fans to cheat the poll isn’t a good move either) frankly obsessive compulsive slash fans ruin any fandom, no offense but you’re becoming a target for jokes in the fandom because it’s just too ridiculous.
While some had complains in most of the sites S/U have a big fanbase already and even people that don’t like them aren’t bothered by their 120 seconds of screentime (that’s me, for example) so clearly this poll is cheated.
There’re other things in the movie that are far more forced and a nonsense. Kirk becoming captain so soon, Kirk conveniently finding primeSpok and so on COME ON.

All the arguments made against Spock and Uhura are pretexts and pretty hypocritical. People find it illogical for Spock to love a human woman even though his 100% vulcan father did yet they find it perfectly logical for him to become gay and turn Kirk into a bisexual even though TOS never implied that either and i remember the actors themselves saying that they never voluntarily gave subtext to the slash fans and it wasn’t their intention to portray S/K as something more than a pure friendship.
And people caring about what’s the best for Uhura? Are you serious? You don’t give a damn about her (or Spock). If anything this movie made her more important. Just admit that you feel threatened by her relationship with Spock because it’s clear that in this au timeline she will be more important for him than Kirk and Spock won’t be just Kirk’s shadow but a complex character with his own storyline aside from the friendship with Kirk. AND THANK GOD FOR THAT!!!
Please don’t confuse fanfictions with the show and with the movies. You can’t expect Abrams&co to make the reboot a clone of the TOS either.
In the end Kirk/Spock sudden friendship in this movie is far more a “from nonewhere” nonsense than S/U romance. Gimme a break.
Spock despised Kirk, he had no respect for him (for legit reasons) and Kirk didn’t like him either because they’re too different. They had no chance to be friends here. THE ONLY REASON they will be friend here is because prime Spock said so thus influencing them. Cheesy as hell.
For you it doesn’t make sense for Spock to kiss a woman that he loves and with whom he has a relationship since most likely years and with whom he shares something that must be so profound that actually made him go “against the rules” for once (that’s the interesting thing. To think what happened between them and how he went there ) not to mention that he kissed her before going into a suicidal mission and after he heard his father admitting that had loved his mother (thus further proving him that loving Uhura isn’t a bad thing or something to feel ashamed for) YET for you it makes totally sense apparently that Spock and Kirk are suddenly best friend 4eva even though they have no “logic” reason to be like that other than the fact that prime Spock told them that they HAD to be friends/they are in the other timeline (i despise this point because he influenced them. S/K should naturally become friends in this AU version on their own. Just because they were in the other it doesn’t automatically make them best friends here. It’s ridiculous and FORCED)

I hated Spock just accepting that Kirk was the captain. It doesn’t make sense for me that Spock couldn’t be a captain because of his emotions and yet they made Kirk the captain.. Kirk who is an immature mess with legs. Oh well.

S/U not being canon? Well, people ship Kirk/spock romantically since decades even though they were just friends in the show and in the movies and there was no hint that they were romantically involved with each other. And here you complain about S/U not being canon? The original creators had always wanted to explore a S/U romance but they could never do that because it was the 60s and because Kirk’s original actor HAD to get all the girls so the first interracial kiss had to be his (basically he stole a scene that was supposed to be for Spock )
The original actors of Spock and Uhura have absolutely no problem with this romance for example. If anything they support it and they think that it makes sense. And you know they actually played those characters for so long.

Personally i totally love Spock being an individual character and not just Kirk’s friend. It seems that people don’t want him to be a character outise Kirk. If Spock has a GF then you can’t get the friendship. This reasoning is boring and very childish. You can have a GF/BF and a friend one thing doesn’t exclude the other. You talk about what is good for the characters but it’s bulls*it. Spock never got a damn chance because everything about him was related to Kirk Kirk Kirk.
The fans are obsessed about this point. Spock can’t breathe without Kirk and if he can’t become homosexual and boink Kirk then he must be alone forever and miserable.

If the movies will make Spock more a main character than Kirk i’m fine because i’m not a big fan of Kirk and fandom only makes me hate him more actually because he’s overrated.
Even in TOS Spock is just a toll used to make Kirk more interesting because alone Kirk has no depth as a character. Spock is far more interesting and he has more potential and his relationship with Uhura will ,hopefully, finally show that.

I’m sorry but you can say that your reason for not liking S/U is not because you’re a K/S fan like you want but i don’t buy that.
And not because people can’t dislike S/U but because a sane trekkie fan doesn’t give a damn about 120 seconds of romance when there’re other inconsistencies far more important. The fact that people spend so much time complaining about that alone clearly shows what’s the real problem is here. Obviously this poll is ruled by shippers.

1142. KirkGirl - May 16, 2012

Dom: Your point, if you had one, is utterly invalid because you can’t make it without bashing another character, i.e. Kirk. No one will take you seriously because of this. Apparently your shipping of S/U can’t stand on its own merits, because in order to accomplish it you have to exhibit rabid hate. Okay then. Gee, you sound like the shippers you’re attacking. A comparison that will undoubtly fly over your self-righteous head.

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