Shatner Still Wants Star Trek Sequel Role & Talks ‘Generations’ Death + POLL: How To Bring Back Kirk? | TrekMovie.com
jump to navigation

Shatner Still Wants Star Trek Sequel Role & Talks ‘Generations’ Death + POLL: How To Bring Back Kirk? April 8, 2011

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Celebrity,Feature Films (TMP-NEM),Shatner,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

William Shatner is touring Australia and New Zealand this week with his "Shatner, Kirk, Crane and Beyond". At the show in Sydney Bill once again talked about how he wants in on the Star Trek sequel, and he also talked about the death of Kirk in Generations. Details and video below, plus a new poll on how to put Bill into the Star Trek sequel (if at all).  

 

Shatner talking about next Star Trek movie (and his last movie as Kirk)

One question William Shatner got during his "Kirk, Crane and Beyond" Twitter Q&A in Sydney was who in Hollywood he would like the chance to work with. After a long sigh, Bill said "JJ Abrams and the next Star Trek movie." Here is the clip via the Shatner Project on YouTube. 

Australian TrekMovie reader Adrian Powers (thanks) sent in a report/review on Shatner’s show in Sydney, which he describes as "absolutely amazing". Powers reports that Shatner had noted how just days before Charlie Sheen made headlines for bombing badly on the opening night of his new "Torpedo of Truth" stage tour and Bill feared the same thing could happen to him, but apparently that was no problem as, according to the reviewer, "Shatner had the entire audience in the palm of his hand the whole night".

Powers also recounts an especially moving part of the show with this account of Bill discussing Kirk’s death scene in Star Trek: Generations

The most powerful section of the night for me was when Shatner told the story about his thought processes for how he would deal with his death scene in ‘Generations’. He articulated it in a certain way that I’d never really considered, and it made the whole event extremely touching and thought provoking. Bill said he always played Kirk as a man with a tremendous sense of awe and wonder about the world around him. He said ‘when Kirk looked up into space, he was amazed. When a monster ran at him, he was amazed’. This was the motivation for Kirk’s ‘Oh My’ line in ‘Generations’ — Kirk being truly awed by finally glimpsing death. Bill then commented that he himself is terrified of death, and that, being 80, he has to deal with it now every day of his life.


Bill draws comparison with Kirk’s death in "Generations" and his own fear of death

POLL: One more time for Kirk?

Of course it is the death of Kirk in Generations that gives the new Star Trek team difficulties in bringing Shatner on for the 2012 Star Trek sequel. As the 2009 Star Trek film has moved the action into a new universe, Shatner’s Kirk remains dead in the prime universe, and the actor has himself acknowledged that there is a problem with bringing Kirk back from the grave. Resurrecting Shatner gets even more complicated as producer/co-writer Roberto Orci has said they will not be using time travel again for during his tenure on Star Trek.

However, being sci-fi there are always possibilities. In fact, Orci and Alex Kurtzman did write an optional scene for the 2009 Star Trek movie that brought Kirk into the film via a holographic recording carried by Nimoy’s Spock from the prime universe. So while it wouldn’t have been a resurrection,  the scene would have still given Shatner a cameo as the original James T. Kirk. In the end, the team decided the scene didn’t work for their film, and they were concerned that Shatner wouldn’t do a cameo (something he had said on multiple occasions). But, director JJ Abrams told TrekMovie in 2009 that not including Shatner was his toughest decision.

So maybe the second time is the time for Bill? How would you bring Shatner as Kirk back? Or do you think he should not be brought back at all?

Expect new crew to return for fourth Star Trek film?

View Results

Loading ... Loading ...

 


Shatner in "Star Trek Generations" (1994), his last Star Trek film?

Comments

1. ensign joe - April 8, 2011

BRING BACK THE SHAT!

2. Lt. Bailey - April 8, 2011

I think he should be in the film in some way, shape or form.

3. Danpaine - April 8, 2011

No doubt about it. Make it happen.

If that hologram scene had made the last film, this wouldn’t even be an issue anymore. GREAT scene.

4. Vultan - April 8, 2011

Just throw in that happy birthday message that was cut from Trek ’09, or something like it.

It was beautifully written:

http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read-the-star-trek-2009-scene-written-for-william-shatner/

5. Rocket Scientist - April 8, 2011

I voted for a recording of Kirk Prime, but really, bring back the Shat,
“Any way ya can!!”

6. Mairee - April 8, 2011

I don’t think he should. I like Shatner just fine but he’s a little too into himself. He’s great but he would want the whole movie to revolve around him and this isn’t his Star Trek anymore.

It would be cool to see him, but it would be useless unlike Nimoy’s appearance in ST:XI was.

7. Harry Ballz - April 8, 2011

Having Shat in the next movie would only work if it’s a CAMEO. Do you hear that? A CAMEO! No big part, no major role in the film, no trying to dominate the movie! If the Shat’s ego can accept that logic, then fine. If he wants to be the focal point of the movie, then forget him!

8. ensign joe - April 8, 2011

Hey Anthony, I think there is something wrong with the Poll thingy.. it will only let me vote once..

:P

9. Mike Poteet - April 8, 2011

At this point, with all the media hubbub over his not being in the first Abrams Trek, his inclusion would only be a distraction. The torch has been passed and it really is time for the Abrams timeline to stand fully on its own. Not only does that mean no Shatner, it means no recycling of old episodes or films. No Khan. No Harry Mudd. No more interaction with the Prime timeline. New stories for familiar names (such as the romance between Spock and Uhura). New history. Surprise us! All due respect to Bill Shatner — and I think he can rest assured he will always be the “real” Captain Kirk in everyone’s eyes — but that door has been closed. For the good of the franchise, no Shatner in the new film.

10. John Bouchard - April 8, 2011

BRING HIM BACK (in some way, shape or form) !!! It’s upsetting to know that this will probably be the last time we get to see the original Kirk on screen ever again.

11. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - April 8, 2011

Ok. Here is how the Shat can be brough back to Trek as Kirk.
Dr Corby captures Pine kirk and tries to clone him and he succedes. After Corby leaves something happens and the machine starts again but with no one at the controls something happens and instead of another Pine Kirk we get the Shatner Kirk but this Kirk is a gtood guy who wants to help Good Pine Kirk stop the bad Pine Kirk.

12. Charlie - April 8, 2011

10: “(in some way, shape or form)”

Speaking as someone who could himself stand to lose more than a few pounds, I’d be happiest seeing Shatner back as Kirk (alt, prime or whatever) if he could drop some serious weight. Who would ever think that the most physically active Starfleet captain we’ve ever seen would let himself get so out of shape? It would be good for Bill, too!

13. DC - April 8, 2011

I say we should bring him back, just one last time. Give the original Kirk the send off he deserves. While one might say, Star Trek VI was that send off, Generations kind of undid the sendoff status for Kirk.

14. Zort - April 8, 2011

the death of Capt. Kirk in ‘Generations’ was stupid, pointless and unwarranted. if the writers were so ridiculously stupid that they needed *this* as a plot device, then they had no plot in the first place. Kirk could only die in one way: on the bridge of the Enterprise, like his father in STXI. Kirk’s death was, in a sense, a betrayal and a slap in the face for many fans who had followed the series and films; bringing him back would correct a mistake and bring a flock of very disappointed fans back into the franchise.

15. Daoud - April 8, 2011

I’d like to see Spock Prime somehow “mind meld” with the NEXUS from the alt universe. Mentally go visit Kirk. Let them ride large equines together off into the sunset. You can’t tell me that even if it were a Shatner and Nimoy cameo together, that Bill would say no to that.

Let’s give Bill a bit more, by doing this. Have Pine’s Kirk find a disk (the original TOS recording type) delivered by Starfleet courier in a package from Spock Prime. Pine’s Kirk watches the same birthday message, and thus Spock Prime explains better than Pike ever could, how special Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise are to the future of the universe. That would be superb in “maturing” them to the level they really need to be. Along with a note from Spock Prime…. that he knows he’s dying, and then the Nexus meld idea… works at the end.

16. NX-03 - April 8, 2011

How about in an early bridge scene, following a long corridor shot, Pine Kirk approaches the captains chair only to find Mr Shatner sat in it. Shatner just looks up, grins, winks at the camera and then walks off, leaving Pine Kirk rather bemused…

17. Starbase Britain - April 8, 2011

BRING BACK THE SHAT!

He should have been in the first film.

Greg
UK

18. mj - April 8, 2011

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, NO FAT SHAT, NO FAT SHAT.

19. Phil - April 8, 2011

We could just pretend he didn’t die…

Kirk: Picard, what are you doing?
Picard: I’m piling rocks on you. Why do you ask?
Kirk: Oh, no reason. Shouldn’t I be dead before you do that?
Picard: You are dead. Now be quiet and let me finish.
Kirk: I think I can assure you I’m not dead.
Picard: You are dead. Now, if you don’t mind….

20. John Cocktoastin - April 8, 2011

Have a scene like that TNG episode where mulitple universes start appearing and have him still being the Captain of the Enterprise.

21. mj - April 8, 2011

@12 “Speaking as someone who could himself stand to lose more than a few pounds, I’d be happiest seeing Shatner back as Kirk (alt, prime or whatever) if he could drop some serious weight. Who would ever think that the most physically active Starfleet captain we’ve ever seen would let himself get so out of shape? It would be good for Bill, too!”

Agreed. Captain Kirk would never allow himself to become obese. I would be embarrassed as a Trek Fan to see a lumbering 300 pound buffoonish looking version of Captain Kirk gutting around the Enterprise in a size 55 uniform.

22. John Cocktoastin - April 8, 2011

People going on about Kirk/Shatners weight should bow their heads in shame and never darken this place with their misguided presence again.

23. Ralph F - April 8, 2011

“If that hologram scene had made the last film, this wouldn’t even be an issue anymore. GREAT scene.” Agreed; and you could still work that in, with Spock and Kirk.

Have Spock watching it as Kirk comes into his quarters, he shuts it off and, when Kirk inquires as to what it was, he simply says it’s something that he gave himself some years ago (which would reference Spock Prime and the last film).

And BTW, MORE McCOY!!!!

24. Boozba - April 8, 2011

I think the Shat should have a little cameo as Grandpa’ Tiberius, you know,
as a little “wink” to the fans.

25. "Check the Circuit!" - April 8, 2011

Here’s a way to bring back Captain Kirk….The Atkins Diet.

(Snarky, I know. Weak moment.)

26. reb - April 8, 2011

Shatner as JTK only works one way. If he’s looking back on his youth. Writing his memoirs or some such.

27. trekprincess - April 8, 2011

What Grandpa Tiberius :/ I don’t know if Shatner should return because that would take the spotlight of Pine’s Kirk no offence :)

28. Scooter - April 8, 2011

I love Shat and how he played Kirk. But, time to move on. I hope the next movie is an original plot, with new story line and not a re-hash of one of the TOS episodes. No reason to go there. Give a new generation of Trek fans something new. Boldly go where no movie or tv episode has gone before.

29. Mxy - April 8, 2011

Please, No Shat in the new movie.

30. DaveK69 - April 8, 2011

About a year ago I came up with an idea to get Nimoy and Shatner into the next movie that makes sense. A flashback…

New Spock visits Spock prime to discuss his new friendship with Kirk and the hardship of understanding the emotion of friendship. Spock prime proceeds to tell him the story about the moments after they put into space dock for the last time with the 1701-A (after the conclusion of Star Trek VI). They’re the last two off the ship and they have a conversation where Spock tells Kirk that he will leave starfleet and go back to Vulcan. They have a heartfelt conversation and in the end Kirk offers in jest to steal the Enterprise and give him a ride back.

We saw the aging process fixed in a Directv commercial a couple of years back. They could pull that off. A five minute segment that brings Shatner back as Kirk, with Nimoy as Spock and truly gives them a proper send off.

31. USS Ronald Reagan - April 8, 2011

Star Trek movies where at there best when Nicholas Myers and Harve Bennett worked on them (Star Trek II – Star Trek VI). No one can replace Mr. Shatner he will always be Captain Kirk. Chris Pine is nice young actor and does a good Kirk for his age but Star Trek would not be complete without its iconic cast from the 1960s through Star Trek VI (1991).

I would be great if William Shatner could be in the next Star Trek movie as Captain James T. Kirk or Admiral James T. Kirk (from the Prime Universe). The movie would be better if in addition to Shatner if Leonard Nimoy, Nichelle Nichols, George Takai, Walter Koenig and Grace Lee Whitney could be also be included too.

I would not mind a few actors from the other series too like Tim Russ as Ensign Tuvok (referring to his serve aboard the Excelsior) or Patrick Stewart as Capt. Picard or even Levar Burton as Commander LaForge (in reference to Nero and the Romulan Star Empire).

Shatner in Star Trek 2012 is something that I hope JJ Abrams and Paramount consider and accept.

32. NX-03 - April 8, 2011

If JJ and the gang ever decide to do an outright remake of Star Trek V, then they should get Shatner to play the ‘God’ character. I’d watch it.

33. Chris - April 8, 2011

There would be no Star Trek without Shatner. It would be nice if they could find some way to fit him in without unconvincingly shoehorning it into the story.

34. USS Ronald Reagan - April 8, 2011

It* would be great…

35. reb - April 8, 2011

33. As I said, Chris the only way I can see it working is if he’s some how looking backward in the current .alt u looking back at his career and enjoying his grand children.

36. JKP - April 8, 2011

Where’s the “I don’t frikkin’ care how they do it, just get Shat in the damn movie for a proper send off before it’s too late” option??

I’d like to see him come back. I thought the death in Generations was pointless and emotionless.

As far as I’m concerned that whole nexus ribbon thingy was screwy anyway and I’d be happy to believe it never happened or was all a figment of Picard dreaming (Patrick Stewart, Patrick Duffy – what’s the difference?).

What we know is he got sucked out of Big E “B”. From there, who’s to say what happens? Why can’t he be dropped into the Alt universe for a little while? We’re already friggin’ around with the timelines anyway.

The man is 80. He’s awesome. He’s one of my all-time heroes. He’s a great PR machine and that means he’s box office!

PLEASE fix what happened in Generations and give us a proper Shat/Kirk sendoff while we still have the option!

Orci, you’re a smart guy. Figure it out!!! :)

(…please…)

37. NX-03 - April 8, 2011

I really want him to appear as Kirk again in some sort of live action production. Don’t get me wrong, Chris Pine’s Kirk and the whole JJ verse is brilliant, it’s just, the guy is getting on and as a celebration of the man, I think someone, somewhere should give him one last final glorious shot at being Kirk.

That said, putting him in the upcoming movie for the sakes of it and having to go off on some massive plot branch just for a cameo is pretty stupid in my eyes.

If it was all down to me, money no object, I’d have a final Shatner-Kirk post Generations tv-movie containing a plot that’s resolution would allow for an easy cameo in the new film. The sort of cameo that would make sense to anyone who had seen the TV-movie but could also be brushed over by anyone who had not.

38. CoolPT - April 8, 2011

Why can’t we swing around the sun like ST IV and get back to the “prime” universe? These future movies could get back to actually telling the tale we all want to know. How did the prime universe play out!! I want to see all the original series aliens, humans, etc. I want to see how the Federation starts, better than what the TV series showed. I want to see things happen on Earth and our solar system as well, not just always some mission. You can still use the new actors, and even have some future glimpses with the older cast. This was my wish all along. Prime Spock knows how to get back to his timeline, just make a need for him to do so in the new movie and set up for many more adventues of the PRIME TIMELINE!

39. CmdrR - April 8, 2011

Personally, I need no explanations.

I just want a silhouette of that famous face… perhaps looking through the glass of a space station at the Enterprise being re-fitted with faster, slimmer nacelles… and saying, “All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by…”

Boom. Cut to new cast doing whatever.

40. Paul - April 8, 2011

Just make a TV movie with Shatner, Nimoy, Takei, Nichols, Koenig & tie it into the 2012 movie in some small way! as an extended promo advert. TV budget means everyone is happy & it would still make loads of money from Bluray,DVD, TV Rights. They could make that for under $15m easily which is cheap for 2 hours of high quality sci-fi!

Otherwise 2012 movie is set in an Alternative universe anyway so why did Kirk have to be dead in the alt universe the nexus never happened if you believe in the time ripple effect. Cannot believe the skilled writers could not use this to find a role for Shatner somehow as he is only dead in the Prime universe timeline but definately alive in the alt timeline!

Job done!!! Make it so! plus Nimoy would love to have a few scenes with Shatner so it will bring in even more box office. Everyone wins!

41. Infinitemonkey - April 8, 2011

Old Bastard just can’t let go can he? What a git.
Give it up old man. Your time has come and gone.

42. JH - April 8, 2011

I think the best way to bring him back would be to run with the supernova/black hole thing from the first film. Maybe the problem is bigger than they thought and it’s actually making the space time continuum between both universes unstable. Space and time begin breaking down and behaving erractically. Bring in Shatner’s Kirk – no explanation needed whether he’s been resurrected, or if he’s old Kirk from the new timeline, it doesn’t matter. He teams up with Spock (and the new crew) to save the universe, or in this case, universes, one last time.

43. pilotfred - April 8, 2011

your dead jim. end of story

44. mj - April 8, 2011

@20 “People going on about Kirk/Shatners weight should bow their heads in shame and never darken this place with their misguided presence again.”

Like I am going to be shamed away from someone who labels themselves as “Cocktoastin”…now that very adult reference is a real example of shame.

45. trekker 5 - April 8, 2011

If they can make it work,do it!! If not….well,i ain’t gonna lie,i want my Trek!!!! but that does not mean in any way ,shape,or form that i do not LOVE Shatner,or his Kirk! i do!! i have a soul!!!!

46. Phil - April 8, 2011

10: “(in some way, shape or form)”

Okay….Form of…….a Horta!! Giant Space Ameoba!! Doomsday Machine!!!
Satisified?

47. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

With MWI, alternate universe Kirks who did make it into old age proliferate the multiverse.

But I still favor the interactive hologram approach.

It would be a great surprise if Bob figures out a way to legitimately squeeze (control the jokes please) Shatner in, but I think that wessel has sailed.

Sad. Such a waste of a good scene that never got filmed.

Oh well.

48. ensign joe - April 8, 2011

#39 “Personally, I need no explanations.”

I tend to agree. They don’t have to explain it.. let it be a mystery for all I care..

49. Bryan - April 8, 2011

Enough with Shatner. I love him but let JJ’s Star Trek be its own thing now. This is getting to be desperation on his part.

50. Anthony Pascale - April 8, 2011

I think the only viable option that will satisfy the fans and canon is the recording. Kirk died in Generations and that is that. There is no do-over and it would take too much story time to resurrect him. Hell it took an entire movie to resurrect Spock. And to do it you would probably have to drag the Nexus into it and explain that thing to a new audience – and that isn’t going to happen. In fact, JJ Abrams himself told me he would never do that.

A recording also solves the aging issue somewhat. There is only so much the de-aging can do. But if Kirk prime is in a holographic recording, it doesn’t have to be perfect as the hologram can be more like the Star Wars style transcendent projects.

But planets have to align. The scene would have to work with their story and not just be tacked on for the hell of it. It should also be more more of a cameo then a big role as it is time for the new crew to stand on their own. Then Shatner would have to agree to it and if it were something that small would he do it? In 2007/8 Bill was still talking about how JJ Abrams needed him and how he wouldnt do a cameo and what a bad biz decision it was to not have him. That is now been rendered moot so maybe this time Bill would be humbler and not demand so much and maybe they can make it work.

But in the end it has to feel integral to the film and not just “hey look we found an excuse to put in Shatner”

51. mj - April 8, 2011

@46 “Okay….Form of…….a Horta!! Giant Space Ameoba!”

Now those are two roles that Shatner could potentially play in the next movie given his current waistline.

52. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - April 8, 2011

@43

In the movies, nobody’s really dead!

I’d really love to see Shatner in this new movie, but only if it doesn’t look like they shoved him in just so he’d be there.

53. Nathan - April 8, 2011

If it’s good, if it makes sense, if it contributes something notable to the film, do it.

If not, don’t.

54. DAK - April 8, 2011

How bout a Guardian of Forever re-do where multiple Kirk’s meet for 5 minutes and then get back to the A story. That could be a good Shat Nimoy guest spot. 2 sets of Kirk Spock meet, talk, and continue on different stories from their point of view.

Otherwise a full mirror Universe with bad kirk Tiberious would be neccessary.

Eh? What say you?

55. ladymac111 - April 8, 2011

I think the only way the Shat could be in XII is in the background of a scene, as a character who doesn’t get a name, like Hitchcock did. Like, he’s an Admiral at a console in the background of a conversation. And the fans will go OMFG LOOK IT’S SHATNER!! and the rest of the audience will stay focused on the story.

Otherwise, Bill, you need to move ON.

56. Ian Fee - April 8, 2011

Spock Prime, having helped establish the new Vulcan colony, decides to try and return to his own time, citing a strangely human feeling of homesickness, even if the future (the present he left) may well have changed. His calculations are, of course, correct but the future has indeed changed. His best friend is alive and well. Final scene, before the end credits, is Spock Prime leaving to attempt time travel. The post credits coda is him meeting Shatner-Kirk and sitting down together to tell him a ‘fascinating’ story…

Bring back the Shat!!!

57. Bucky - April 8, 2011

I love Braga’s crack about the “Oh my” line on the Generations commentary track, both him and Moore admit to being weirded out by the improv and Braga goes “It’s like he went to Hell!”

I don’t like the “Oh my” at all. Freaks me out too.

58. Phil - April 8, 2011

50. Anthony Pascale – April 8, 2011

You summed it up nicely here. Some elements of the fan base are either in denial or suffering from selective amnesia. They don’t want to believe that Shatner would be happy with a small part, or small money, or whatever so there will be a million posts that Paramount just needs to make it happen. It’s not that easy.

59. Bucky - April 8, 2011

Anyway, if the sequel goes into the weird, alien, all-powerful supergod route, they have Shatner show up through that. Bad guy X (I still have a feeling the Talosians are involved, don’t ask me why) snaps his fingers and *bam!* Shatner Kirk!

60. dratikus - April 8, 2011

This doesn’t need to be rocket surgery, put him in the film already!

61. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

50: “There is only so much the de-aging can do. But if Kirk prime is in a holographic recording, it doesn’t have to be perfect as the hologram can be more like the Star Wars style transcendent projects.”

Exactly. People who complain that he’s too “fat” just don’t get it. His weight is a total non issue when he’s a de-aged CGI hologram because the weight can be erased. Lord. Didn’t anybody see Benjamin Button? They turned Brad Pitt into a 2 foot tall old man for crying out loud, and it was perfect — and totally CGI.

62. Joe T. - April 8, 2011

Bring him back in a alternate timeline to help the current Kirk.

63. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

But I don’t think it’s gonna happen. Sad sad sad. One of the best pieces of writing never committed to celluloid for sure.

64. Amber - April 8, 2011

BRING BACK THE SHAT!

You can do it. And I believe it was easy to Kirk come back.

65. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

The best way to do it would be to just shoot the Shatner scene and re-release the movie with it like Spielberg did with CE3K or Lucas did with Star Wars. It’s precedented. But apparently JJ is going to be a pinky in the air elite artist. It’s not his “vision.”

Okay JJ, where was your vision when Gugu MBatha-Raw was forced to choose between cutting the red and the blue wire on that show of yours that bombed??? That idea was old the first 2000 times it was done.

So don’t give me crap about artistic vision when it would have so clearly improved the movie.

66. dratikus - April 8, 2011

Since we know people can exist both in reality and in the nexus, the we know Kirk could still be alive in the nexus.

Spock our young Kirk find the original black hole and are able to communicate though it and find Kirk prime some how on the other side hoping to find Spock, perhaps having escaped the nexus after realizing Spock was lost.

It could happen.

67. Darren85 - April 8, 2011

It’s a major shame they never went forward with that holo-recording scene for the last movie. It was beautifully written, perfect emotionally and in the context of the last scenes made OH SO MUCH sense as a way of passing the torch over to the new cast.

Nimoy did everything he could and did great, but this would have sealed the deal. Damn.

68. rm10019 - April 8, 2011

Mirror Kirk Prime

69. Greg2600 - April 8, 2011

I don’t see how they can do it without it being a mess. Given the direction they’ve gone, it just doesn’t make sense to bring him back. I don’t want to see it. I would rather see an actual film of Shatner and Nimoy STARRING as Kirk and Spock. I have no interest in seeing them separate, or as cameos/bit parts.

70. Maj - April 8, 2011

I think Shatner had his fair share of screen-time already. Maybe the Generations death wasn’t the most graceful, but Shatner’s Kirk had 7 movies!

The new crew: 1 movie?

It doesn’t seem to fair trying so hard to bring him back at the expense of the new talent who’ve barely been given a chance.

Now Chris Pine is Kirk, a ‘developing’ Kirk. It’s possible one day he could surpass Shatner’s Kirk. So we have to give him a chance to shine on his own.

71. James T. West (no comma!) - April 8, 2011

Def support a Shatner role in Trek II (2012)! Orci/Kurtz/Abrams: Just do it n make it happen!!!

” It was…fun”

72. mj - April 8, 2011

@71. “You must learn to govern you passions. They will be your undoing.”

:-)

73. Kev-1 - April 8, 2011

I’m not really keen on having him in a cameo, but there are many ways to do this: (1) Have the Nexus appear in the alt universe with the “real” Kirk; Spock gets him out. (2) Get Q or Trelane to drag Kirk back. (3) Simply have him appear with a story telling how his old crew rescued him some time ago– no need to make a big deal. (4) Shatner plays Mirror Kirk . (5) Make Kirk into Edith Keeler in reverse: he must be restored in order to set the universe right. There are limitless ways to do this, because it’s science (action-fantasy) fiction. He could be restored as easily as they erased the Prime Universe.

74. mj - April 8, 2011

But why would we want to see and obese 81-year version of Kirk restored?

Come on, the misplaced sense of sentimentality is killing me here.

Do you all know that Abba refused $1 Billion for a reunion tour because they realized that they would not be credible on the stage 20 years later? They have something Shatner lacks…class.

75. Keachick - April 8, 2011

Please – will people stop going on about William Shatner’s weight. It is VERY rude. The reality is that this 80 year old man has just flown the long haul downunder, is as active as anyone (possibly more so than some people half his age), is well spoken, quick witted and intelligent.

Newsflash – As people get older, they tend to gain weight, some more than others. Some of this has to do with diet and lifestyle, but some of it is also genetically inherited. Is Shatner obese? Would his own medical physician agree with this? Looks can be deceiving. Shatner has never been a lazy, bad eating, couch potato – anything but!

Shatner should be prepared to play a small cameo role in the sequel or not be in it at all.

“How about in an early bridge scene, following a long corridor shot, Pine Kirk approaches the captains chair only to find Mr Shatner sat in it. Shatner just looks up, grins, winks at the camera and then walks off, leaving Pine Kirk rather bemused…”
I think that would make for a great little scene and Pine does great bemused expressions. Quality over quantity!

But – people (including Shatner) would complain that the scene was too short.

76. mj - April 8, 2011

@75. I have no problem with and old person gaining weight and becoming obese. However, if that person then wants to play Captain James T. Kirk in a Star Trek movie, then yes, I am going to have a problem with that, and if comes across to some as rude, then so be it.

He is not fit/credible enough to play Kirk right now, period.

77. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

74: “But why would we want to see and obese 81-year version of Kirk restored?”

Are you flipping back and forth between alternate universe trekmovie sites?

Where are you getting this idea that we would see an 80 year old heavyweight Shatner? For the life of me I can’t figure out where you are getting that idea from. But it’s wrong.

78. John from Cincinnati - April 8, 2011

Guardian of Forever! Forever! Forever!

The Nexus! The Nexus! Nexus! There will always be an echo of him there.

The transporter! His pattern will always be in the buffer to ‘bring back’

Q, a creature of multi-dimensions, could bring him back.

79. John from Cincinnati - April 8, 2011

As far as anyone disputing the “credibility” of having Shatner appear as Kirk. What about what they did with Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy?

80. mj - April 8, 2011

@75 “The reality is that this 80 year old man has just flown the long haul downunder”

You make it sound like the Shat is sitting in a middle seat back in coach and suffering all the way don. I guarantee you the Shat was in first class, with those fully reclining bed seats, and the best food and care you can get. SIGN ME UP!

81. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

76: “He is not fit/credible enough to play Kirk right now, period.”

Nah, sure he is. He could do it no problem, especially the scene Bob wrote which is just him speaking while standing in place. And the CGI would make him the same age he was in Generations, with hologram “grain” blurring out the imperfections in the CGI.

It would be easy. The only hard things involved here are the egos.

82. Sean4000 - April 8, 2011

I would love to see Kirk Prime resurrected.

83. mj - April 8, 2011

@77 @79

Did you find the younger Bridges credible in Tron? To me, he did not look right, and many others have commented the same. He had a “wax museum” look to him.

A CGI Shat could be worse then the real thing.

84. rtrj - April 8, 2011

Let Shatner be the future Alt. Timeline Kirk who sends a holographic
message through a rift or wormhole warning Kirk about aproaching
danger or villain. He could appear like he did in The Doomsday Machine,
winking in and out to Kirk, McCoy And Spock.

85. mj - April 8, 2011

@81. You are talking about a cameo. That is a moot point, because he won’t do a cameo. So we are talking about having to do a full movie with a CGI Shat — no, I can’t see that being viable.

86. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 8, 2011

Well… I do not know if Mr. Shatner will appear in the sequel… probably not … but certainly we’ll continue talking about it for years to come, I hope… lol… hmmmm… wow… this seems to be a good reason to JJAbrams to decide… “No I will not direct the film “… LOL

87. Shawn - April 8, 2011

Does everyone realize that Shatner’s Kirk didn’t die in Star Trek Generations. Remeber when Guinen talked about the “echo”. I’m just saying. The great thing about a crappy plot device like The Nexus is that it’s got holes that could sink a ship. You could easily say that’s Kirk’s echo died and not Kirk himself. Think of the Nexus as creating multiple versions of a person. Kirk’s still in there.

Just a thought….

88. tony - April 8, 2011

b cool to see shat as kirk one more time

89. Daoud - April 8, 2011

Boborci: Just do 2012 part with a remake of TOS’s “The Deadly Years”. No need to super-age Chris Pine as old-Kirk… just bring on Shatner. ;)

90. 2333 - April 8, 2011

How about this, given we have all these people who want shat back, and give another large group of people wants a gay character in the next movie, let’s have Shat play an old, gay Grandpa Tiberius…i.e. kill two birds with one stone!

91. MJ - April 8, 2011

that is my post above in 90…hit the wrong key…

92. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

85: “@81. You are talking about a cameo. That is a moot point, because he won’t do a cameo.”

He’s already done a cameo in another movie, and a pretty crappy one at that.

You have to present that scene to him and see what he says, which was never done. You really can’t say he would refuse unless you’ve done that.

93. Phil - April 8, 2011

@75. Weight has always been a sidebar issue. Jame Doohan was rather amply proportioned his last few go rounds, and nobody complained about that. And thanks for pointing out the obvious, I’d of never figured out that people get a bit fluffy as they age.

I read the suggested scene for Kirk at the end of Trek 09. It was nice, and I agree with JJ’s reasoning for not approaching Shatner about it, as Anthony pointed out. It would be a horrible mess of a movie to accomodate one mans ego, so don’t do it.

94. MJ - April 8, 2011

Generations was more than a cameo. Nice try, DM

“–noun, plural cam·e·os.

Also called cameo role. A minor part played by a prominent performer in a single scene of a motion picture or a television play.”

95. MJ - April 8, 2011

@93. Well for my part, yes actually, I didn’t like seeing Scotty and Uhura as getting pretty fat in the 23rd Century. It sf and Trek, and people shouldn’t get fat 300 years from now — they have solved that.

96. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

93: “I read the suggested scene for Kirk at the end of Trek 09. It was nice, and I agree with JJ’s reasoning for not approaching Shatner about it, as Anthony pointed out. It would be a horrible mess of a movie to accomodate one mans ego, so don’t do it.”

Oh no way. If they had shot and included that scene NObody would be saying afterward that they should have left it out, that it ruined the movie…that the movie was great until that moment.

Not even in an alternate universe would that happen.

97. Basement Blogger - April 8, 2011

I can’t see them brining back William Shatner as Kirk. Becasue in Generations, he’s dead, Jim. I’m not against Shatner but there’s a new crew who are now the face of the franchise. I’ve written this before, the only way I can see Shatner being in the movie is as Kirk’s grandfather. And it’s got to be organic. Otherwise, it will looked tacked on. The other thing that I’ve argued before is if Shatner wanted to be Kirk again, how about a CGI animated show set in the prime universe. You could de-age him. He doesn’t sound that old.

98. MJ - April 8, 2011

@96. Sorry, but I agree with Phil on this one. I read that scene and found it superfluous and distracting to the movie. Spock, by himself, provided the connection we needed to the Prime universe and TOS. Anything else would have been “a waste of material.”

As Phil aptly said, “it would be a horrible mess of a movie to accommodate one mans ego, so don’t do it.”

99. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

94. MJ – April 8, 2011

Generations was more than a cameo. Nice try, DM

***

Ho ho, you misunderstood. I wasn’t talking about Generations. I was talking about Fanboys, the Star Wars fan-spoof movie. He did a very corny minute and a half as himself in that flick. And “minute and a half” might even be stretching it.

Suffice it to say that it was a cameo; it was brief and it was BAD. So yes, a bad cameo is not beyond him. A good one he may also consider.

You don’t know till you ask.

100. Jim - April 8, 2011

Kirk Prime needs to be reunited with Spock Prime. Kirk’s death in Generations would have been easier to bear if they had at least had a reaction from Spock. But Nimoy didn’t want a cameo in that movie just like Shatner didn’t want a cameo in STXI. And I’m sure that applies to STXII.

To me, STXI was more of a novelty. I find that the only scenes I really like are those with Nimoy and those where we get to see the old characters meeting for the first time. On DVD I fast forward through most of the rest of the movie.

101. MJ - April 8, 2011

@97. “I’ve written this before, the only way I can see Shatner being in the movie is as Kirk’s grandfather. And it’s got to be organic. Otherwise, it will looked tacked on.”

Agreed. And make Grandpa Tiberius gay, as that would get that issue finally taken care of in Trek.

102. Christopher Roberts - April 8, 2011

McCoy: “Now, I’m just going to inject you in the arm, Jim.

It should take a few minutes before it begins to work.

Betcha wished you hadn’t followed Chekov in, where you heard him scream now, aren’t you?”

Shatner: “You reckon this’ll take the years off?”

McCoy: “I guess… you’re the test subject.”

103. Iva - April 8, 2011

He might be dead in Paramount canon, but I don’t see how that is an issue. After all, it’s not like character canon or st canon in general mattered anything when the last abrams movie happened.

104. nony - April 8, 2011

At this point, after all this brouhaha? There’d be no way to bring Shatner back without it being distracting and not credible. We wouldn’t be watching James T. Kirk. We would be watching Bill Shatner shoehorned in to play Bill Shatner’s iconic character because of Bill Shatner. Now, I love the guy, but he had three seasons of television and seven movies to be Kirk, and we can enjoy those over and over (except maybe the last one).

He seems busy and happy with what he’s doing, anyway. I wonder if he even *wants* to go back to Trek himself, or if he’s just having fun pandering to all the fans constantly hollering at him about the reboot.

105. Keachick - April 8, 2011

#93 – “And thanks for pointing out the obvious, I’d of never figured out that people get a bit fluffy as they age”

So why do people keep going on about his weight, especially when it seems not to impede Shatner much in doing what he likes doing, like horseriding…?

The “long haul” is an expression used to describe the long trip down from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere where Auckland may the first safe place for a large passenger plane to land in a trip that can take between 9 and 11 hours, depending on departure point.

Shatner came from Sydney to Auckland, a three hour flight. Nevertheless, whichever route one takes, the flying time can be very long.

#95 Maybe…Are we talking about genuine fat or people with a different bone structure, size and metabolism? Just watching the TV series “Drop Dead Diva” and the lead actress and (obviously) her character, Jane Bingham, a lawyer, is on the large size. The majority of people see her as just plain fat, but is she or is she a healthy body size/weight for her particular genetically inherited body shape?

(Polynesian people have naturally up to 30% more bone mass/density than Caucasian/European people)

106. Bucky - April 8, 2011

87 – I thought that too when the movie first came out, and it’s not explained very well in the flick, but the commentary track explains that Guinan’s “echo” is just that because she was pulled from the Nexus by the Ent B when they beamed them out of the Lakul. The El-Aurian’s were in a state of “temporal flux”. So that’s why Guinan is bouncing around the Nexus when Picard shows up. Picard and Kirk leaving is exactly that – they leave of their own free will and there is no “echo” left behind.

Flimsy reasoning and even thinner logic, which can easily be explained away, but according to the writers of the movie, that’s how it is.

107. Christopher Roberts - April 8, 2011

Yeah, but the future of Kirk, Spock and the rest, clearly being a blank slate mattered to the Abrams etc, or else it could’ve been a honest-to-goodness prequel and they still would’ve had a problem with Shatner being in the film. Ironically again, not Nimoy there either… Story being told from an old man about his youth or time-travel or some Godfather II duo perspective.

Having Shatner turn up as Kirk from the future of the Abramsverse, just basically removes any danger he’ll ever be in too.

108. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

I can only speak for myself, but I know a lot of people feel the same way; it’s not about getting Shatner in the movie. It’s about getting that SCENE in the movie, which was a beautifully written and poignant scene.

If it was a bad scene I wouldn’t bother. But its good. Damn good. It actually would have made the movie better by making Kirk Prime play a part in influencing Spock Quinto to rejoin the Enterprise rather than an older version of himself, and by doing that it would also have given us some reason to how Spock decided to get along with Kirk after the initial hostility they had towards one another.

We have that reason for Kirk — when Kirk meets Spock Prime on Delta Vega. But we lack a similar reason for Spock, which that scene provided.

So it’s not about Shatner, at least not for me. It’s about what that scene would have done.

109. dmduncan - April 8, 2011

See, the Kirk message shows Spock Quinto the sort of relationship that Kirk and Spock had in the Prime Universe, so it gives him a glimpse of a possibility he hadn’t imagined, and this then alters the course of his decision.

110. Christopher Roberts - April 8, 2011

106. That’s exactly it. Plus El Aurians always had some wierd perspective abilities – see Q Who? or Yesterday’s Enterprise.

There was no attempt to try and transport Kirk. He’d already been blown out into space when the Nexus struck the Enterprise-B’s control room. It’s a miracle he ended up in there.

111. Phil - April 8, 2011

105. Keachick – April 8, 2011

Oh, dear god that’s funny….I’m not fat, I’m big boned!!

112. wjaspers - April 8, 2011

Would love to see prime Kirk resurrected.

Some smart anomaly thingie showing the wonders of the universe inside a nice story.

But let’s face it, Star Trek will we reduced to a good guy-bad guy thing, with some really great CG, asking yourself why am I looking at this.

113. sean - April 8, 2011

it’d be a cool concept to dovetail the 3 movies if they did have shatner in the 3rd film, it would make the pine kirk events seem more real to have shat talk about the alt timeline past.

but you can’t do time travel / alt. universes every movie unless they’ve decided to make the 3 movies about the change in time that occurred cause of nero and them trying to reset the timeline cause of some reason….ie spock wants to reset it to save vulcan. but it looks like these movies are gonna be more episodic or at least have the next 2 be a 2 part story.

if anything i’d like to see next gen pple show up if they do do time travel again. i think patrick stewart would be a great dynamic with the new crew.

114. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 8, 2011

#105 – keachick

… at Theater Awards … I think you’ll like this … maybe … LOL

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljbkiny4Kg1qc3r66o1_1280.jpgAWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1302397801&Signature=b6u6xuJOgLL3RgKwu2XK8Gaitjw%3D

:-) :-)

115. Andy Patterson - April 8, 2011

I love Shatner. I care not what others think.

116. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 8, 2011

#105 – keachick

…. something wrong… so go to IMDB… you know …

:-) :-)

117. Vultan - April 8, 2011

As much as I’d like to see Shatner play Kirk again, I think it would be best to just move the film series forward without cameos or “guest stars.” I don’t want Trek to devolve into some cheesy Love Boat/Brady Bunch reunion TV movie mess that hobbles along with a nostalgia crutch (any more).

It’s a new universe. Now make it new.

118. Ivory - April 8, 2011

Shatner as Kirk would be epic…Mr. Orci if you are out there please make it happen. This iconic character deserves a far better ending than he got.

BRING BACK SHATNER AS KIRK and Star Trek’s resurrection will be complete.

119. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - April 8, 2011

“Now Chris Pine is Kirk, a ‘developing’ Kirk. It’s possible one day he could surpass Shatner’s Kirk. So we have to give him a chance to shine on his own.”

Can’t happen. Those stars cannot line up again. 60′s tv show on one of only three networks/cancelled/runs every night in syndication/brought back as film/Pine playing Kirk in nearly 100 tv episodes and seven movies spanning 40 years? Sorry, no. I’ll take that bet.

Star Trek belongs to Shatner a whole helluva lot more than it belongs to JJ & Co. He should be in it, no question about it. But for the only reason that really matters; money. Star Trek is a business for Paramount, and if they think they can make one extra dime putting the beloved old fat man in it, he’ll be in it. If not, he won’t be. As I said, he should be, and we’d all get a kick out of it, but the money has to make sense.

120. TrekMadeMeWonder - April 8, 2011

I concur. BRING BACK MR. SHATNER!!!!

No pun intended, but make it a BIG part of the movie, please.
As big as Mr. Nimoy’s was.

121. Vultan - April 8, 2011

But let’s open our eyes here. Whether it makes the story convoluted or not, it really doesn’t matter; including Shatner will happen if it’s profitable enough for him and all those behind the scenes.

Familiarity breeds contempt. In Hollywood, it makes millions.

122. rvp - April 8, 2011

@55 “Like, he’s an Admiral at a console in the background of a conversation. And the fans will go OMFG LOOK IT’S SHATNER!! and the rest of the audience will stay focused on the story.”

That would be SO INCREDIBLY DISRESPECTFUL, especially after the class A treatment they gave Nimoy, that it’d be better if they didn’t show him at all. I say this as someone who doesn’t care for Shatner.

What you suggest works on a metatextual, 4th wall acknowledging way for creators, like Hitchcock and Stan Lee. But doing that to a guy who is still a symbol of this franchise? Dismissing him as a *trivia*, like a bloody tribble? Not cool.

123. TrekMadeMeWonder - April 8, 2011

Let Bill act “green screen motion tracking” style and insert a young TOS Kirk in his place. Then we could watch both Pine, and a young-again Shatner onscreen – both in thier prime. While your at it. Just put the whole damned Prime-TOS crew again in a great adventure to fix both universes..

124. Weerd1 - April 8, 2011

My admiration for William Shatner knows no bounds. I love his work in anything he does, and not just Trek. I do believe he is a wonderful actor, and his sense of self deprecation and willingness to play around with the “Cult of Shatner” is witty and wonderful. Also, I truly adore the “Has Been” album; one of my favorites.
But…
The next Star Trek movie should not have him in it. The torch was passed, and anything from here on would be a gimmick. Maybe he should do a cameo on “Phase II.”

125. Tiberius III - April 8, 2011

Here it is. Kirk is about to be beamed up from a planet who’s colony of scientists is being evacuated due to a radiation leak from one of their experiments. At the first moment of beaming, there is a radiation spike that causes a transporter malfunction where Kirk, after some miracle work by Scotty, materializes unharmed. They leave the transporter room to attend to the evacuated colonists. As the doors shut, the transporter pad shimmers to reveal…EVIL KIRK!! However he is not identical to the Captain but much older. The radiation has caused his molecules to age during transport, and voila, Shatner is in the movie!

126. rvp - April 8, 2011

Voted for the recording option. It’s either that or don’t have him at all.

It’s a 2 hrs movie. To introduce concept/villain, to deal with a huge ensemble of characters who barely know each other, an added romantic storyline (which I pray everyday is not too time consuming), and protagonists who had just began tolerating each other by the end of XI.

I already doubt they’ll take care of all of these elements satisfactorily in XII, because really – 2 hours!!

Developing a special storyline just to accommodate Shatner would be a waste.

127. Beth - April 8, 2011

Couldn’t bring myself to vote against Shatner, at first, though my initial response was, “God No!” Then I considered how manipulative and self-motivated he is… I’ve little doubt he’d use fan loyalty, guilt, and every other emotional device at his means – benefit of the film and franchise secondary. It’s hard to deny any wish of one in his 80s, especially one who has played an important role for us, but while a Shatner appearance may be a nod to old fans, I can’t see it having a positive effect on the future of Star Trek; and should ST 2012 get panned due to a failed Shatner reboot, everyone would regret it, including Shatner – I think.

128. MJ - April 8, 2011

Despite the loudness of the pro-shat contingent here, it looks like “no shat” is carrying the day in the poll.

129. MJ - April 8, 2011

Again, if we must have Shat, I say let’s truly rock the Trek universe a bit and have him play a gay Grandpa Tiberius…and here is something really wild…have his domestic partner be retired Captain Robert April, played non other than….

…drum roll…

…George Takei !!!!!

130. RTC - April 8, 2011

I admit I’m not a fan of bringing back Mr. Shatner; I think the new Trek can stand on its own. But if it were to be done … hinted at above is the notion that since we’re now in a different universe, ‘Generations’ need never have happened (or need never happen at some point). An older Kirk (Shatner) could be involved in some sort of story element that begins in his younger (Pine) years. That way it could be something more substantial than a cameo.

131. Desstruxion - April 8, 2011

Shatner is Star Trek. Bring him back.

132. William Bordeleau - April 8, 2011

Wow, this much passion can NOT be ignored…
Anthony, It makes sense to me that Kirk/Shat could be written in by proxy.
I think a new actor playing Q would find it amusing to ressurect Kirk in a way that would be appropriate to all parties, and would give the fans a revamped protagonist, and a chance to see Shatner perform this beloved role once more.
What would be funny is the fact that Q’s perception goes beyond linear time, so he’s not effected by the changes.
Or is he?

133. Phil - April 8, 2011

129. MJ – April 8, 2011

I’d pay money to see that. Like most old couples, let them bicker about who’s on top….

134. Red Dead Ryan - April 8, 2011

I agree with Harry Ballz and Anthony Pascale. The only (best) way to get Shatner into the sequel is through a cameo. And that cameo would have to be like the “rejected” hologram scene.

Otherwise, any other attempt would come off as fanboyish and would overshadow Chris Pine and the rest of the new cast.

135. Red Dead Ryan - April 8, 2011

129+133.
……. ……..

Things could get a little awkward when, during lovemaking, both of them say “Oh My!” at the same time!

136. CaptainJoe - April 8, 2011

Ive said it before and ill say it again there is a really easy and plausible way to get not only shatner back as kirk but any or all of the other surving cast members back and that is do to do a new version of the TOS episode “The Deadly Years”

doing something along those lines it wouldnt matter that Kirk died in Generations.

137. DiscoVery - April 8, 2011

I want Mr. Shatner back. Remember, the Universe heals and corrects itself… Maybe something is off in the story event, just enough for Pine Kirk to go to his quarters and watch what Spock Prime told him to review if faced with doubt over his destiny. Enter a recording of Shatner.

Bob, you wrote a stunning script with Kirk Prime’s scene before. You and Mr. K CAN do so again. I know it.

Cameo, yes.

138. Ivory - April 8, 2011

128 – Actually 72 percent of the people in the poll want Shatner back in one form or another.

This is Star Trek there are always possibilities. Kirk prime could be brought back in any number of ways.

Shatner and Nimoy one more time would be amazing.

139. Cygnus-X1 - April 8, 2011

Bob Orci,

The time has come. This is very likely your last chance to set things right.

To make up for that awful travesty of a death scene for the most important character in all of Trekdom.

To placate, appease, mollify and sate the myriad Trek-geek, Shatner-freaks of planet Earth.

And to stick a big, sugary pacifier in the mouth of one William Shatner, who’s been crying, in his own endearing way, to be in one last Trek film for the past 4 years or so.

His best buddy, Nimoy, got to be in the last one. That must have been torture for the Shat: An ego such as his is not easy to contemplate. And neither shall we attempt to at these proceedings.

You’ve really got to just throw caution to the wind, and go for it at this point.

The plot intricacies can be worked out. Just write him a cameo that is sufficiently glorified that you can present it to the Shat as not being a cameo.

That way our dear old Shat can save face and go out with dignity and pride.

The Trekkies of Earth will be likewise happy (wetting their pants, more like).

And you will have done your part to right the most atrocious of wrongs in the nearly 5 decades of Star Trek.

Once more into the breach, dear friends.

Once more for the Shatner.

P.S. — San Dimas High School Football RULEZ!!!

140. Demode - April 8, 2011

I think a recording would have been interesting, and it still could be done. Even if Spock Prime doesn’t appear in the movie, we know that the two have stayed in contact. So Spock Prime could have given him a cpy of the digital recording. I think that would be greta. We don’t need a whole movie of Shatner. We want a moment with Shatner that leaves us wanting more. It should be touching and moving. The happy birthday recording would still work well. Maybe Spock is having some doubts about Pine-Kirk, so he plays the taoe that Spock gave him, who told him to play it if he ever doubted their friendship (Kirk/Spock friendship)

141. CaptainJoe - April 8, 2011

Daoud, ive been saying on these forums of this site they should remake the deadly years going all the way back to when the last movie came out.
I think it really could be a plausible way to get him back in the film

142. JMAN - April 8, 2011

I think they should just find a nice voice-only role, perhaps even a voiceover, and leave it at that!

143. Dan - April 8, 2011

Well you could do this:
Could use the gensis torp. again to bring him back. Worked on Spock. Why not Kirk. Only problem would be the memory thing but Iam sure the Valcons have a mind trick the writers can make up to solve that problem.

144. MJ - April 8, 2011

@138. “128 – Actually 72 percent of the people in the poll want Shatner back in one form or another.”

Sore loser, eh! Of the categories picked from in the poll, NO SHAT is the winner. Sorry, not my problem if you Shat apologizers can’t agree on your pro-shat category, because NO SHAT is taking home the flag here!

145. MJ - April 8, 2011

@139. Hey Cygnus X1, I want to introduce you to a new concept just developed for written language:

“par·a·graph
A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker’s continuous words.”

146. SirMartman - April 8, 2011

As Ive always said,,the best option to fix it,,would be Spock prime turning up at Veridian III,,
( from time travel from the new trek)

And helping Kirk and Picard in the fist fight.

Spock prime is back with Kirk prime,,and gets out of the new Trek.
Kirk is saved,Picard goes back to his time line and Doctor Soran is arrested,,( and may come back one day)

And the fans will get to see a better send off for our *fallen* hero,and Spock prime.

(come on Nimoy,,dont retire yet mate!!)

You would only need one outdoor set, and 3 actors!

147. rvp - April 8, 2011

@144 “Sore loser, eh!”

No, someone who understands basic math.

@140 IA, to some extent, even though I think it’s important for the camaraderie between Kirk and Spock to stand on its own and not depend on reassurences from Prime Universe.

@146 … and about at least 20 precious minutes of a 2 hr REBOOT movie about REBOOT characters.

Seriously, I understand Kirk Prime’s death sucked, but nu!Trek is not the place to fix that.

148. MJ - April 8, 2011

@138 “Shatner and Nimoy one more time would be amazing.”

Ref:
Grumpy Old Men (1993)
PG_13 103 min
Comedy | Drama

149. MJ - April 8, 2011

@ “No, someone who understands basic math.”

We are in agreement then on which category prevailed. Excellent.

150. Spirk - April 8, 2011

If the new movie takes place in the alternate reality, then surely the older Kirk would be alive in that reality. Hasn’t anyone, including JJ Abrams and his team, considered this? This is the only way to explain how they can use William Shatner. Why else would they create the alternate reality?

151. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - April 8, 2011

Bob, do it. You know you can.

152. MJ - April 8, 2011

@150 Huh ?????

153. Red Dead Ryan - April 8, 2011

150.
…….

Older Kirk doesn’t exist yet in the new timeline.

154. MJ - April 8, 2011

@153. Perhaps ole Spirk had a wee bit too much Romulan Ale tonight? :-)

155. Charla - April 8, 2011

Maybe if they didn’t use the Shat- they could give a nod to ALL of the old cast in the credits.

I can’t see anyway of putting him in either, without it making a mess of what has already been written. Who knows though, our writers are very creative!! Not to scare you Bob, Alex and Damon, we consider you ours!
BWAHAHAHA !! J/K of course-

I do feel bad for William Shatner- the fact that he worries about dying. I think it does concern many of us, and he seems to be grabbing at everything he can to keep him busy. It’s as if he’s trying to keep his thoughts from his eventual mortality. I think that fact alone (that he is terrified of dying) swayed me somewhat to think, yeah, if possible, let the man do something in the next movie.

I know, I know I may be criticized for thinking that, but I am a humanitarian at heart, and now that his ego has been set aside a bit to allow him to even suggest this, it would be nice to see him as a hologram maybe-
that’s what I voted for anyway.

On the other hand, and empathy aside, I am very happy with the new crew- and feel they need to take over now as well. The torch has been passed, and it is going to be a great franchise once again, with or without William Shatner.

I still think it would be appropriate to place Shatner and the rest of the crew somewhere in the credits- but I know that probably wouldn’t satisfy Shatner or maybe even the others. Kind of like letting them know before anything happens to any of them,(God forbid), how much we loved their talents in TOS Star Trek.

Too heavy- this topic, for this fun site-

Now I have to go have a little Vulcan Brandy to make me feel better ;)

In thinking of

156. Red Dead Ryan - April 8, 2011

I see that “Spirk” must’ve been the result of a transporter accident that merged Kirk and Spock together, similar to the creation of “Tuvix” (Tuvok + Neelix via transporter).

Somebody ought to fix those transporters….. :-D

157. Charla - April 8, 2011

* Typos!! Ok, ok It’s Friday, and I had a long week- and some Vulcan Brandy-

should have read 2nd para. “any way”

and I didn’t mean to have a dangling, lonely incomplete sentence there at the end!! I was done!! :-D

158. mr. NUspock - April 8, 2011

if ever, then as tiberius kirk, grandfather of kirk…………..

159. MJ - April 8, 2011

@155 “I do feel bad for William Shatner- the fact that he worries about dying”

Well all got it coming, Sharla. We all got it coming.

160. Phil - April 8, 2011

How many ways can already used, worn out plot devices be used to resurrect FatKirk? Mr. Shatner has said it himself, he wants a substantial role. NO CAMEO’s people!! If he’s not the star he’s not going to play.

This poll says No OldKirk. Pervious polls say, no OldKirk. Shatner himself signed the contract to do Generations, where OldKirk got the Ol’Yeller treatment – he obviouisly didn’t feel to bad about it, he cashed the check. Old Kirk is dead, leave him buried.

161. Charla - April 8, 2011

UGH!! and 1 last thing!! I didn’t mean a hologram, that might be too much like Star Wars!! A recording is what I meant… geesh. lol

162. Jack - April 8, 2011

Charla. Agreed. I’m firmly in the no-Shat camp, yet I suddenly felt like a dick for that when I read his musings about his mortality. Your take on his need to work was pretty insightful. I like your idea of some sort of tribute to the entire cast — although that was done well in Trek VI.

163. Keachick - April 8, 2011

“Oh, dear god that’s funny….I’m not fat, I’m big boned!!”

That is so way off and downright insulting. Read my post again and learn something about variations in physiology between people of the one race, let alone that of other races. Knowledge of the various healthy body types has been around for a while now.

Incidentally, when William Shatner was interviewed on TV here on Thursday night and the interviewer, Mark Sainsbury, asked Shatner how he managed to look and sound so good at his age. Shatner replied that he kept active and asked Sainsbury to feel his biceps. Sainsbury almost freaked saying, “Geez they are rock hard!”. Don’t confuse fat with muscle. Muscle also weighs heavier than fat. William Shatner is fit and quite likely the right weight for his make up and constitution. He could probably shed a couple more kilos but couldn’t we all? I do not know anything about his family background and I doubt anyone else here does either.

164. Iowagirl - April 8, 2011

Here we go again…and again…and again…

Isn’t it great! :))

165. chrisfawkes.com - April 8, 2011

Shatner is Star Trek

166. Phil - April 8, 2011

163. Keachick – April 8, 2011

Oh dear god, it’s still funny………Hey, it could be a thyroid problem, too. You never know….

167. Keachick - April 8, 2011

I have to wonder how Chris Pine might be feeling right now. By the end of the movie we see the Captain James Kirk emerging. He played it so beautifully and without Shatner’s help (on or off-screen). If the situation was reversed and it was a young William Shatner taking on an iconic role, how would he feel if the original actor wanted to play the character again and not just doing a short voice over or small cameo? I somehow think that the young Shatner would be more than a little miffed.

Give Chris Pine a chance. He is a good actor or is that what Shatner is afraid of – that by the end of the second movie, Chris Pine will really shine as THE captain of the Enterprise? Bill, if this might be what some of this is about, it is NOT a good look to attempt to undermine the work, charisma of a promising young actor.

168. Thorbury - April 8, 2011

I seriously think that Shatner could be put into the sequel – there are manifest ways of doing this really well, that people are simply being too ignorant to contemplate – but guys, don’t bring the weight into it. It’s like this – the amount of exercise required to get rid of that much bulk would probably kill a guy who’s 80. I frankly don’t care if he’s big. John Wayne was pretty overweight in “The Shootist”, but I still think that’s his best film. Shatner for the next movie, and ignore anyone who says it ‘can’t be done’ because those words don’t exist in the Trek language.

169. boborci - April 8, 2011

129.

Hmmmm….

170. Phil - April 9, 2011

169. So, that got the wheels turning, right?

171. Trekboi - April 9, 2011

that ship has sailed- have him in the movie but as another character.
let kirk rest in peace.

172. Thomas - April 9, 2011

I find myself vacillating between the “Kirk Prime recording” option and “No Shatner”. I liked the recording scene as written, but I’ve still never felt that Shatner’s involvement was absolutely essential. I cannot honestly say his presence would’ve made me enjoy the last movie more, but I can say that his absence didn’t make me enjoy it any less. I just don’t feel that beholden to Shatner, nor do I feel that he’s the be-all end-all of Star Trek. That’s not meant to be insulting, but that’s how I honestly feel.

If it was decided to bring back Shatner, I think the best option is the holo-recording scene. It’s small, yet could be crucial to the plot. It also doesn’t require any sort of convoluted explanation that Trekkies gobble up but would leave the uninitiated confused. The last movie generated too much goodwill with general audiences to jam that sort of stick into the spokes.

173. Jack - April 9, 2011

129. Amazing.

A) Hilarious

B) I actually want to see that.

I’m picturing matching kimonos, and a movie spin off.

174. Harry Ballz - April 9, 2011

169.

The working title?

Grumpy Old (Starfleet) Men!

175. MJ - April 9, 2011

@169 @170 @173 @174

Glad to get a few laughs out of this!

176. Chasco - April 9, 2011

Shatner wasn’t remotely interested in the 2009 movie – he couldn’t even be bothered watching it.
Then suddenly after it became a phenomenal success he started whinging on about not being in it and maybe please JJ could he possibly make an appearance in the next one?

He needs to shut up about it now and go away before it gets any more embarrassing.

177. Jack - April 9, 2011

the transporter accident plot’s also a promising way to bring back Shatner, see Pine was on one pad, and, say, a large ham was on the other. Humpback whale?

Gotta stop the fat jokes. I was a longtime proponent of the Kirk would never allow himself to get fat theory… and then I hit 40.

Wait, has anyone remade Hart to Hart yet? The Shat/Takei thing has me thinking. “When they met, it was murder.” Shat and Takei, solving murders… in spaaaace.

178. Bren (Destructor!!!) - April 9, 2011

176, I’m pretty sure the shat was on the case before it was even filmed. His refusal to see the film probably has more to do with his schedule, and perhaps some self-righteous sense of rejection.

179. Aurore - April 9, 2011

“He needs to shut up about it now and go away *before it gets any more embarrassing*.”

Too late.

:)

180. captain_neill - April 9, 2011

If there is a natural way to fit Shatner in the movie as primary universe Kirk then I am all for it as I want to see the Shat in there, but it has to work within the film.

Spock in the last film works in the last film because he was an important part of the story.

I must still be among the few who was not happy with the proposed holo recording they had planned, it just felt like it was shoehorned in there and was not needed in the final cut.

It sounded a bit clunky for my liking and not necessary after Spock’s dialogue with Alt Spock (aka Quinto)

181. trekprincess - April 9, 2011

Shatner give it up man you need to realise that this isn’t your Star Trek anymore no offence intended :)

182. Tom - April 9, 2011

I think the hologram would easily work. How about a alternate universe Priceline commercial. Seriously if a gay character is introduced I don’t believe it should be Shatner. I am not a homophobe but really don’t see the need for it. I am 100% for Shatner being in as either Prime Kirk coming back or the hologram scene which I think would be awesome

183. bugs nixon - April 9, 2011

Grandpa Tiberus.

184. captain_neill - April 9, 2011

I agree with Anthony, fit Shatner in only if the story works for it.

Won’t feel right if just shoe horned in.

185. JimmyMac - April 9, 2011

Should have done the Shatner birthday hologram scene in the last movie. Major missed opportunity and it would have worked. I even got goosebumps when I read the scene when it was posted here.

186. NTH - April 9, 2011

I simply hope that we get to see Bill Shatner for one last time as Kirk in the new movie.Hopefully if the will is there to do so by all parties a cameo appearance that is organic to the storyline will be developed and filmed for all posterity.

187. ety3 - April 9, 2011

Enough.

I want a moratorium on future “Shatner wants to be in Trek”/”Should Kirk be in the sequel” stories.

188. Ivory - April 9, 2011

Imagine the hits this site would get if it is announced at some point that Shatner is in. It would be the first story to have 3000 posts.

Mr. Orci please give Kirk the “fighting chance to live” that he deserves.

189. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - April 9, 2011

They could bring him back from the grave… but only if the tombstone says “James R Kirk”… he he he

The more I read about ways to include Shatner, the more I think that would be awful. I’m glad when I read “Roberto Orci has said they will not be using time travel again for during his tenure on Star Trek.” Yes, time travel needs to retire from Star Trek for a while, and without it, there’s no real mechanism for transporting Prime Kirk into NuKirk’s timeline, except the hologram idea, which would lame. I think the hologram idea would be lame because it’s not a plot development, just a naked, stilted device for a cameo, and that’s all.

“Oh MY” — We’d all _see right through_ the hologram… whew, I’m full of clever ones today….

190. Aurore - April 9, 2011

“Imagine the hits this site would get if it is announced at some point that Shatner is in.It would be the first story to have 3000 posts.”

Any bets on the hits this site would get if it is announced, at some point, that William Shatner is definitely not in (the sequel)?

I kid, I kid……although….

:))

191. Christopher Roberts - April 9, 2011

I don’t know… if he’d actually seen Star Trek 2009, he might not be so eager.

Be careful whatcha wish for there, Bill. :)

192. The Riddler - April 9, 2011

Bring back Kirk and I will pay double..no Triple the price of admission.

Please guys. This is Shatner we’re talking about.

One last ride in that chair.

One more.

Ok i’ll pay 10 times the ticket price to see that. Not a cameo.

193. Trekprincess - April 9, 2011

Oh Shatner give it up please :/ this isn’t the place for resurrecting prime Kirk the new timeline if you guys really want to see him then put into a tv movie or something

194. Christopher Roberts - April 9, 2011

You can eschew polls anyway you like really.

30% is a pretty solid no, considering the rest of the voters aren’t all of the one mind about the “right” way to handle a Shatner-Kirk appearance.

8% for another character (Robert April) or Kirk relative (Tiberius) seems pretty minority.

In words of Nicholas Meyer, since “art is NOT a democracy” –

…would do Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof (have I missed anyone out?) want to do?

195. Christopher Roberts - April 9, 2011

CBS could resurrect ENTERPRISE and just do that either one of those scripts pitched to Shatner…

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv330/Christopher_Pike/UnmadeENT.jpg

…and make a TVM or straight-to-DVD/Blu ray/download project of it.

Leaving STAR TREK 2012 to just get on and do its own thing.

196. Christopher Roberts - April 9, 2011

195. (cont) More likely Tellarites would fly, of course…

197. P Technobabble - April 9, 2011

I suppose everyone who loves Shatner/Kirk would love to see him at least one more time. But I imagine that the story/script is pretty much in place. If Shatner hasn’t been included in the film by now, it’s very unlikely that it would happen. At this stage, maybe a cameo could be thrown in, but then it would probably seem “thrown in,” and serve no real purpose in the story. And it’s unlikely Shatner wants to do a cameo. Why should he, really? He’s a big star in his own right these days. I think it’s all wishful thinking on his part and the fans part that he will appear in the film.
Of course I could be 100% wrong…
But it’s fun to speculate how Shatner/Kirk might be resurrected, and some people have some clever ideas about that. My own idea involves Picard discovering a problem that only the dead Kirk can solve. He seeks out “John Doe” from “Transfigurations” (who had returned to his homeworld) to bring Kirk back to life. All sorts of complications, etc., etc. I won’t bore you with the details…

198. SunnyD - April 9, 2011

The moment Spock Prime said ‘Thrusters on full’ was the moment the new cast and the new vision left the old Trek in the past. I’m all for a new Trek, so let bygones be bygones. I want to see new ideas with the new team. Shat should let it go and quit beating a dead horse. Long live Trek (on DVD and Blueray).

199. VOODOO - April 9, 2011

Ivory 118

” Bring back Shatner as Kirk and Star Trek’s resurrection would be complete”

That is a powerful statement. I love it : )…. I also agree that his return as Kirk would be “epic” how cool would it be to see the original Kirk and Spock go out on a high note?

The world never got a Beatles reunion, but Mr. Orci could bring together these icons one last time… Please make it so!!!

200. Chris M - April 9, 2011

William Shatner actually made a funny comment at the Star Trek Convention in Melbourne about Kirk’s death in Generations. When he walked out someone said “Captain on the bridge!” and he said that during Kirk’s death scene he wanted to say “Bridge on the Captain!” LOL

201. gingerly - April 9, 2011

Only as photo or hologram in Spock Prime’s possession, if they have to go through his personal effects.

And from what I understand Nimoy is done.
Otherwise, no.

202. dmduncan - April 9, 2011

144: “Sore loser, eh! Of the categories picked from in the poll, NO SHAT is the winner. Sorry, not my problem if you Shat apologizers can’t agree on your pro-shat category, because NO SHAT is taking home the flag here”

Actually, that is incorrect, MJ. There are 4 pro Shatner-in-the-movie options, and only 1 No Shatner option.

As of right now, the pro-Shatner contingent is at 70%, which pretty much matches other polls I remember on this question.

According to the polls, more fans want to see Shatner in the movie than do not. The only point of division is HOW he appears, not on WHETHER he appears.

203. dmduncan - April 9, 2011

Here’s a test question for those of you having trouble:

18% of those asked wanted bacon and eggs for breakfast.

22% of those asked want pancakes with their bacon and eggs for breakfast.

22% of those asked want french toast with their bacon and eggs for breakfast.

8% of those asked want a shot of whisky in their coffee, and two extra servings of bacon with their bacon and eggs for breakfast (known as the Harry Ballz Special)

30% of those asked don’t want anything for breakfast at all.

Now, here’s the hard part: What percentage of those asked are having breakfast?

204. Phil - April 9, 2011

Anthony, time to revise the poll.

Shatner Kirk in the next movie.

Yes
No

Lets keep it simple….

205. Phil - April 9, 2011

Oh, and no. NONONONONONONONONO and NO!!!

206. Christopher Roberts - April 9, 2011

203. “Now, here’s the hard part: What percentage of those asked are having breakfast?”

I dunno. Maybe the rest of us are only having no breakfast, because you’re all out of cereal and the smell of pan-fried pig is too much, after all that vomitting we did last night? :-}

207. VOODOO - April 9, 2011

I wonder what the general feeling is about William Shatner and the prospect of having him in a future Star Trek project among the creative team (Abrams, Orci etc) behind the scenes?

Truth be told if they really wanted to get him in the movie I think they could do it fairly easily…My question is do they really want him involved or do they just publicly pay lip service to him and his contribution to the ST universe?

Do they really love his version of the character the way they claim to?

On the flip side does Shatner want to be involved because his love of ST or his desire for all the attention/money it would bring him?

Just wondering.

208. dmduncan - April 9, 2011

I’m just puzzled by how some of you can look at that poll, see that like 70% of respondents want to see Shatner in the movie by one method or another, and still conclude that a majority of respondents DON’T want to see Shatner in the movie.

Seriously? (here’s where I look in the camera doing my best Jim from The Office impression).

209. dmduncan - April 9, 2011

But it’s moot. The Shatner scene was the best opportunity. It’s not gonna hap’n cap’n. So sad.

210. Star Trek Sequel Fan Already - April 9, 2011

No Shatner. It’s getting almost ridiculous now how many times he’s complained about not being in the first one and wanting to be in the sequel.

The purpose of Nimoy in the sequel was not really for a cameo appearance. It was needed for the storyline. Nimoy’s presence also calmed the older trekkies…he was the bridge, the important link, to connecting the two universes. That was his purpose.

Now that they have established that connection, there is no need for another one. Nimoy even said that. He said it’s time for the next generation (pardon the pun) to take the reigns and to lead. Shatner doesn’t seem to understand that it seems like. If he’s put in the sequel it will seem like they just put him in because he whined about it so much.

Shatner was a great Captain Kirk, but it’s time to move on.

211. Christopher Roberts - April 9, 2011

Actually having finally seen the video, Shatner doesn’t really pause for that long. He launches right into his answer…

Maybe Shatner will work with JJ Abrams. Maybe he can remake Kingdom of the Spiders or T J Hooker…

212. rvp - April 9, 2011

@207 “My question is do they really want him involved or do they just publicly pay lip service to him and his contribution to the ST universe?”

My money is on the later, and I can’t even say I blame them.

I’m ok with the recording msg as written in the original XI script because the main “emotional” point of these movies is (or should be, imo, but maybe Orci et al have other ideas) Spock and Kirk being bros. They still aren’t in reboot.

213. New Horizon - April 9, 2011

After having Nimoy in the first film, it’s time to let the new cast shine on their own. I really don’t want to see the new cast have to share the stage yet again. The next two movies should belong to them. Spock worked in the first movie, but I really don’t want to see the writers having to come up with some contrivance to get Shatner as Kirk into the movie. Been there, done that. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Shatner had two good bye movies. Star Trek 6 with the whole cast, and then Generations. He didn’t have to agree to kill Kirk, but they paid him so he did it. Had he not agreed to kill Kirk, it would have been easy to include him in the last movie as an older Kirk in some way.

Lets over shadow the new cast the way they did in the final episode of Enterprise. I want to get to know the characters all over again.

214. lostrod - April 9, 2011

It would be nice if folks could discuss the topic without resorting to juvenile insults to Mr. Shatner. That’s the sad thing about folks posting anonymously. They can basically insult anyone they wish with no consequence.

Just as annoying are the posters who seem to somehow know what Mr. Shatner thinks or feels or believes. Unless they have ESP, they can’t and they don’t.

Regards.

215. Red Dead Ryan - April 9, 2011

203.
…….

Mmmm……you know….I’m pretty hungry right now….I think I’d like the Harry Ballz Special right about now! Thank You!

216. Cygnus-X1 - April 9, 2011

145. MJ – April 8, 2011

—-@139. Hey Cygnus X1, I want to introduce you to a new concept just developed for written language:

“par·a·graph
A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker’s continuous words.”—-

Hey, thanks!

Though that concept has existed and been regularly expounded upon by the MLA for many years, I am as grateful for your having brought it to my attention on this occasion as I am for your arbitrary insinuation therein that I conform to your desired application of the aforementioned concept in the expression of my thoughts at this forum.

Allow me to return the favor with reference more appropriate to prose:

ar·tis·tic li·cense
(also known as dramatic license, historical license, poetic license, narrative license, licentia poetica, or simply license) is a colloquial term used to denote the alteration of the conventions of grammar or language.

You see, there are many concepts in life, and it is as worthwhile to learn their appropriate applications as it is to learn their basic meanings.

Well, I think we all learned something here.

And by “all” I mean “you.”

217. Frederick, the Trek Scrapbook Guy - April 9, 2011

Resurrecting an 80 year old Kirk would be a bit useless, wouldn’t it? Kirk in that timeline is dead. He’s alive in this one, though, and we can enjoy him young again. Let that be enough.

218. rvp - April 9, 2011

@214 Completely agreed. I say this as someone who isn’t a Shatner fan and who thinks his presence in XII is unnecessary, but not unwelcome (as long as it’s kept to a cameo).

@216 the less you engage him, the happier you will be.

219. Fuba Mushu - April 9, 2011

If it has not been made abundantly clear by now, I am no fan of the new movie.

Of all of the pieces of fail in the movie, one of the biggest pieces for me was the inclusion of Leonard Nimoy in the movie. In particular, the scene where Spock rescues Kirk from the giant hemroidial lobster. The moment that Nimoy as Spock saw Pine as Kirk and immediately recognized him, my suspension of disbelief, already on shaky grounds, was shattered. Pine’s face is not the face Nimoy would recognize as Kirk. At that moment, the movie was done.

I’m a sucker and will go see the next film, no matter how awful and contrived it will be. But I would loathe to see or hear Shatner in the new film, especially in the role of Kirk (age and size be damned). It will be hard enough to swallow the set design and contrived plot points and maintain my suspension of disbelief without having to reconcile people recognizing Shatner’s countenance or voice as Kirk.

Move on and be done with it.

220. Harry Ballz - April 9, 2011

203+215.

Hey, if you guys are looking for a sound “BITE” from me, well, you can bite me!

221. Dee - lvs moon' surface - April 9, 2011

#169 – boborci

Star Trek: and … the trip of trekkies keep going … LOL

:-) :-)

222. Cygnus-X1 - April 9, 2011

218. rvp – April 9, 2011

—-@216 the less you engage him, the happier you will be.—-

lol — appreciated and duly noted.

223. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - April 9, 2011

Boborci

If you do bring him back go BIG or dont do it at all!! It has to flow and it has to make sence and the people have to like it!

224. Dr. Cheis - April 9, 2011

Well my preference, which it seems is already out of the question would be to have the Star Trek sequel featuring Spock Prime attempting to alter the timeline to prevent the destruction of Vulcan. When he returns to the future, he sees that his efforts have inadvertently also prevented the death of Kirk Prime. Kirk Prime reminds Spock Prime that we can’t alter the past to fit our whims, even if it’s to prevent terrible calamities. Resulting from Spock Prime’s meddling with time, reality begins changing unpredictably, threatening the entire Federation, and the new Alternate Universe. Kirk Prime makes Spock Prime realize his actions were not based in logic but attachment, and that he had to let go of his old dear friend because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. Somehow or another, Kirk Prime ends up sacrificing himself once again to restore the universe to its proper balance (this time giving him a much more satisfying death).

The concept needs some work (like where do the AU crew fit in in all this, lol?) but it would have pleased me greatly if something like that had happened.

====

Alternative: “In a Mirror, Darkly” style story in which Mirror Kirk ends up meeting Alternate Universe Kirk. “In a Mirror, Darkly” was my favorite Star Trek episode ever, though I fear a similar movie might be inaccessible to a wider audience.

225. Maj - April 9, 2011

That’s the problem with putting Shatner in the sequel, for even a minor role. He’ll “have” to be a BIG part of the story.

226. Jonboc - April 9, 2011

IF Shatner is to return, in any role, it has to be devised in such a way that it can be used or abandoned with little or no effect to the story they have developed. Obviously they aren’t writing a story 100% dependent on Shatner’s involvement…that would be foolish. The first movie did depend on Nimoy completely and they needed him from day one. Shatner has not been signed up for the sequel so we can safely assume his presence is not critical to it’s production.

So, now we have that figured out, let’s look at Shatner as grandpa Kirk, or some similar character. That’s a real possibility because anyone else could step into the role if Shatner wasn’t able or didn’t want to do it. The possibility of Shatner NOT joining the cast doesn’t hurt the actual production. But being that it isn’t THE James Kirk, it robs the moment of any real emotional impact with the audience. So that probably isn’t an option…shat as uncle Joe just ain’t gonna cut it.

But a recording of his future self, which young Kirk can say was given to him by Prime Spock, only to be activated if he ever feels self doubt or feels he can’t go on, could be a very moving and pivotal scene…giving Pine’s Kirk the insight of a much older Prime Kirk, and perhaps inspiring him to come up with a solution that saves the day. It could work on all levels if done right…and it could also be easily cut out, letting Kirk find the answers on his own should Shatner not want to do it. It could easily be another “Nimoy in the cave ” reveal that catches everyone by surprise and brings on the smiles, and even tears, if done properly, and bob and the gang know all about doing these things properly. No worries. IF they choose to Include Shatner it will be well done and worth it.

227. MJ - April 9, 2011

@176: “Shatner wasn’t remotely interested in the 2009 movie – he couldn’t even be bothered watching it. Then suddenly after it became a phenomenal success he started whinging on about not being in it and maybe please JJ could he possibly make an appearance in the next one? He needs to shut up about it now and go away before it gets any more embarrassing.”

Well put — I couldn’t have said it better myself.

@DM

Get back to when we have poll where a pro-shat category garners more votes than a No-Shat category. Again, not my problem that the poll is either poorly constructed and/por the pro-shat contingent doesn’t really no what the what. Notice also that the No-Shat lead is continuing to grow not the most of the Shat apoologizers have already voted. No-Shat has demonstratively won in this poll — SCOREBOARD !!!

228. Andrew - April 9, 2011

227

You understand perfectly well, whether you admit it or not, that the results of the poll show that 7 out of 10 respondents want Shatner back. Jeez.

229. D D - April 9, 2011

*** NO *** TO SHAT! Oh no, here he goes again. Yawn, I wish he’d just go away – the nexus would be a nice place. The new film does not need him if it is to stand by itself.

230. MJ - April 9, 2011

@228. Ref: Abraham Lincoln, 1860 Presidential Election and Electoral College Voting percentage for him. The country did not elect “None of the Above” even though the other choices combined added up to 60%.

Please stop whining about the No-Shat win in this poll…”you must learn to govern your passions; they will be your undoing”

231. Andrew - April 9, 2011

230

This isn’t an election, genius, it’s an expression of preference. 70 percent of those polled prefer Shatner, 30 percent do not. “And a double dumb ass on you!”

232. MJ - April 9, 2011

@231. Again Einstein, don’t blame me for the construction of the poll. You seem to be taking this pretty hard, “as your continued predilection for irrelevancy dictates.”

I have no doubt that if Anthony has titled this article “Shat or No-Shat Poll”, with those being the only two categories, then No-Shat would win that contest convincingly as well. There are a vast majority of Trek fans who are so sick and tired of the Shat drama, that they are bypassing this article and not even seeing this poll. Until we have that sort of article and poll, we can only go by the imperfect categories here, which No-shat has decisively won…againn: SCOREBOARD!!! DEAL WITH IT!!!

233. Jonboc - April 9, 2011

#232. “There are a vast majority of Trek fans who are so sick and tired of the Shat drama, that they are bypassing this article and not even seeing this poll.”

I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong. :)

234. Madeline - April 9, 2011

I absolutely adore William Shatner, but I think the new films need to move on. It was fantastic that Leonard Nimoy could be in the first one as a transition, but this is a NEW franchise with new actors. Let them do their own thing. I’m sorry, but I think kit would be frustrating to see them try to work in a Shatner role.

This is coming from a huge trekkie… but i appreciate the new series for what it is, and want them to break away from the past. :/

235. captain_neill - April 9, 2011

No reason to be unkind about Mr Shatner saying he is bitching aif he won’t get a part.

This IS the man who defined Captain Kirk, the man who made Kirk the legend that he is. If Shatner was not successful then James Cawley and Chris Pine would not have this iconic character to play.

As I said put Shat in film if it works in a good organic way but it is not a must.

It doesn’t matter as Shatner will always be Kirk. But at same time I can still enjoy Pine’s performance even though I don’t like his take on Kirk as much.

236. Andrew - April 9, 2011

232. “I have no doubt that if Anthony has titled this article “Shat or No-Shat Poll”, with those being the only two categories, then No-Shat would win that contest convincingly as well. ”

My apologies then. I assumed you actually knew better but were being obstinate. However, if you actually “have no doubt” of the foolishness of your position, then you have enough mental problems that I shouldn’t make things any more difficult for you than they already are.

237. MJ - April 9, 2011

@235. Tell you what, Cap, you clone Shat, download his brain into the clone, and then present to JJ and company a 27-year old Shat, then I will agree to replace Pine with him.

The young Shat from TOS is never coming back to us folks…time to move on.

238. Anthony Pascale - April 9, 2011

We have polled on Shatner a few times, although i am not sure we have done a simple yes/no.

Last time from Feb results were:
William Shatner in 2012 Star Trek sequel?
* Yes – essential (18%)
* Yes – a good boost for film (21%)
* Maybe/OK – but not important (32%)
* No (28%)

So while it is true that a majority would like to see him in the sequel, a minority think it is important.

There are three camps: the “brink back shatner” camp, the “hell no shatner” camp and the middle group who could take it or leave it (I am in that group).

I must say I do find it ironic that after hearing so much about “no khan do something original” we see calls for redoing “The Deadly Years” and with so much “canon is king” talk we see a more casual view towards putting Shatner in without worrying about that whole he died thing.

I also am surprised so many want to see Bill in a new role (even as aged Alt. Kirk). I am not sure I see the point. That certainly would be the wink to the audience kind of cameo which I guess can be fine, but totally unimportant. The only way Bill can play an important role in the film (even as a recording) is to play the role he made a legend, and that is the original James T. Kirk (100% prime Kirk).

But hey, that is just my opinion. I am allowed to voice them from time to time, but no disparaging on all other valid Trekkie opinions

239. Ratchet - April 9, 2011

Bring him back and do justice to the series by doing so ! without Shatner there would be no Star Trek as we know , give him his props while he is still alive ……

240. Aka'ar - April 9, 2011

#238 ” The only way Bill can play an important role in the film (even as a recording) is to play the role he made a legend, and that is the original James T. Kirk (100% prime Kirk).”

Anthony speaks the truth…we hear his words.

241. dmduncan - April 9, 2011

227: “Get back to when we have poll where a pro-shat category garners more votes than a No-Shat category.”

No need. We already have one. It’s currently running. And the pro Shatner in the movie contingent is winning.

242. Barb - April 9, 2011

There is no reason he has to have died in the alternative timeline. The new timeline Kirk can live to 120… if Shatner makes it that long… (seems like he might…)

243. MJ - April 9, 2011

@240 “Anthony speaks the truth…we hear his words.”

Agreed. Anthony laid it out pretty well. In the original poll he cited, 60% said either No or Maybe/Not Important. Enough said — that lays the issue to rest and pretty much confirms my previous posts.

244. Aka'ar - April 9, 2011

#243. “Anthony laid it out pretty well. In the original poll he cited, 60% said either No or Maybe/Not Important. Enough said — that lays the issue to rest and pretty much confirms my previous posts.”

Mmm…not exactly. “maybe” does not equal “no”. It equals maybe….that can swing either way….so using that option and swinging it to the “pro” camp you have 71% for Shat being in the movie….so I’m a little confused of how that put anything “to rest” at all! lol. Other than the fact that more want in, rather than out.

245. Kate - April 9, 2011

bring him back, either as a holographic message, an older kirk, or as a relative. he deserves to be in the movie!

246. Phil - April 9, 2011

I knew I saw another poll that was “no shat”. No Shat. There is just no way this guy heads a 100 million plus movie.

Would love to see a yes/no poll to put this to rest.

247. Hakka - April 9, 2011

I know making him play another character would be the best and easier way to make the Shat appear in the movies but, really, I’d cringe seeing Shatner in a Trek movie not playing James Kirk, so I’ve voted for the recorded Kirk Prime: it’s the one who makes more sense.

248. Katie G. - April 9, 2011

If he could lose the weight/bloating and look like someone who is in Starfleet (i.e. keeping themselves fit, especially as we envision the great Captain Kirk to do) then I would love to see him again. But the condition he’s in now… that’s why I don’t want to go to my high school reunion looking the way I do. Too embarrassed. However, if you walk in looking GOOD, no problem. Same idea here. Besides, it could only do him good to lose weight. The 40lbs I’ve lost is an inspiration to lose more. I’d love to lose 30 more pounds.

Good luck with your health, Bill. Hope you’re around for a few more years!!

ktg

249. Jonboc - April 9, 2011

248 Katie G…..umm….why on earth would you expect an 80 year old Kirk to still be in Starfleet?

250. MJ - April 9, 2011

@248 “If he could lose the weight/bloating and look like someone who is in Starfleet (i.e. keeping themselves fit, especially as we envision the great Captain Kirk to do) then I would love to see him again. But the condition he’s in now…”

Thanks for telling it like it is, Katie.

@249 “…why on earth would you expect an 80 year old Kirk to still be in Starfleet?”

Excellent question, Jonboc. Don’t have an answer for that one becuse their insn’t one, unless you buy the iffy “make him you and thin again through CGI,” which I don’t really care for.

@244. Nice try Aka’ar, but the jist of the polling that Anthony mentioned was “Maybe/Don’t Care” — translation: “I don’t give a flying f**k whether Shat is in the movie or not.” So it was pretty conclusive that 60% were either anti-Shat or apathetic, leaving on minority (a sizable one, I will give you that) of 40% really wantig to she Shat in the movie.

251. Red Dead Ryan - April 9, 2011

238.
…….

“I must say that I do find it ironic that after hearing so much about “no khan do something original” we see calls for redoing “The Deadly Years” and with so much “canon is king” talk we see a more casual view towards putting Shatner in without worrying about the whole he died thing.”

Exactly! Its why I hope Bob Orci filters out 99.9% of the “ideas” he reads on this site. Most fans tend to base their ideas of what the sequel should be about and who should be in it on emotional attachment and not necessarily logic and reasoning. That is why you see these ironies and paradoxes when it comes to what fans want or don’t want.

“But hey, that is just my opinion. I am allowed to voice them from time to time, but no disparaging on all other valid Trekkie opinions”

If anyone’s opinion counts more than others, its yours. We always enjoy reading your well-educated opinions!

P.S

Would you ever consider putting up a brief bio of yourself? Like details about where you were born, which is your favorite Trek series/episodes/movies, etc, as well as a photo?

252. Andrew - April 9, 2011

What the heck, McCoy was in Sarfleet at 137, why is 80 such a deal breaker? Especially if he could play somewhat younger.

MJ, by the way, you are so full of **** it is beyond belief. First you say something is “put to rest” when it isn’t. You get called on it, and now you say it is “pretty conclusive” when it isn’t. I also note with amusement the conditions with which you will stipulate to agree to Shatner’s return – as if anyone knows, needs or cares about your approval,

253. MJ - April 9, 2011

@252. Happy to have done my small part to keep you entertained. :-) Get back to me when the pro-Shat hangers-on finally win a poll, would you? No doubt in 2020, when Shat is 90 and Abrams Trek movie #5 is in production, I’ll be having to still carry the fire of why a 90-year old 300 pound Shat should not be in that movie. It is a difficult cross I bear here, but somebody has got to save the franchise by reigning in the misdirected and well-past-its-prime goal of bringing Shatie Gleason into the new movies.

254. Red Dead Ryan - April 9, 2011

253.
……

Let it go, already! The man is a living legend, MJ*. How about laying off the insults and show some respect?

*I really hope this MJ fellow is just some idiot troll who stole his webname. If it really is MJ, what a sad person he has become…..

255. MJ - April 9, 2011

@254. No, it is me. I apologize for offending you and anyone else. I love what the Shat did for TOS and the movies, but I really tired of his whining and bitching about the new movies. And I was offended by his refusal to see the new movie, and similarly astounded when he was interviewed on the Trek Blu-Ray movie package by Whoopie Goldberg, and with Stewart, Frakes and Nimoy sitting next to him, said he had not watched one episode of the NG…how embarrassing (to both him and the group) and condescending for him to behave.

Maybe if in his latter years he respected Trek more then I would respect him more. His attitude is that “It is all about him,” and if you don’t believe that then you are deluding yourself.

Again though, my apologies if I have offended you.

256. Red Dead Ryan - April 9, 2011

255.
……

Apologies, accepted MJ. I think though, that if you are bothered by Shatner not watching any of the other Treks, or skipping on the new movie, then you’re just getting too worked up. He has the right to not watch the recent movie, though I disagree with his decision, but it really doesn’t matter to me.

Although I do think he said has seen the movie, but didn’t elaborate any further.

And I’m guessing that the reason why he didn’t watch any of the other Treks is that he really missed being in the captain’s chair for 25+ epsiodes a year.

257. Steve Boler - April 9, 2011

In Star Trek the cartoon, there was reference to a holodeck, so even though we never saw it in TOS, there was one, assuming the cartoon was canon, and by goly…it should be! Young Kirk could simply “take a call” from his grandfather (shat), on the holodeck. Done!

258. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

237

I was not saying Shatner must be in the movie, if you read my post I like Pine. But guess because I grew up with Shatner as Kirk I am always going to prefer him no matter.

As I said it probably make more sense not to have Shatner in the film because it will feel very contrived to get him into the film. But if there is a way that works then go for it.

I prefer Shatner but at same time I can accept that it can move on without him, as we have had 4 spin offs after TOS as well.

259. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

All I am saying just because there is a shiny new cast playing the TOS crew, we should not be mean to the cast members who originated the roles, as without them the TOS characters would never have become the legends that they are.

260. Snake - April 10, 2011

Agree with some of the other comments. The nexus is in both timelines and time has no meaning inside the nexus. How hard can it be to fake science original Kirk to the new universe.

261. Trekprincess - April 10, 2011

Have you got a problem with the new cast Captain Neill :/ can’t believe you are back on this website moaning and moaning give it up and move on

262. Christopher Roberts - April 10, 2011

262. (edit) another mission that has happened OFFSCREEN

263. Jack - April 10, 2011

253. I’m hoping it (Shatner in the movie) doesn’t happen. Just like I’m hoping they don’t radically change the art direction (phasers, even engineering) solely because fans are complaining. Trying to please the fans has never worked well in Trek, for a lot of reasons.

Please the fans by giving them one hell of a good movie. The filmmakers don’t owe fans, or actors from previous Trek anything, again, other than a good, smart, gut-wrenching movie.

And, now this is just me, but I’m also hoping there are no, or very few, little nods to fan’s complaints, or the use of their nicknames for characters, or whatever (glee, fringe, supernatural — you do it well, but I’d like Trek to play it straight) – keep the damned fourth wall up.

oh, saw Hanna today. I liked the pace — some neat character moments and pauses, rather than just endless chase scenes.

264. P Technobabble - April 10, 2011

If Shatner is, somehow, a part of the sequel, AND there’s a good reason for it, I will have no problem. I do not think the sequel should require him to be in it — again, unless there’s a good reason for it. I also don’t think he should be in it portraying some character other than Kirk. I am a huge Shatner fan and always will be, so I certainly have nothing against him. And I think it’s unfair and lame when some people talk about the man in a derogatory way after all he’s accomplished.
Again, I really think we must assume by now that the story is in place. If Shatner is not already a part of the story, the writers are not going to suddenly re-write the script. And I think both Shatner and Bob Orci have already hinted that it was unlikely we would see Prime Kirk in the movie.
Best bet is that Shatner won’t be in it. Betting that he’s in it — or will be written into it — is a long shot. IMO.
PS: I think someone needs to stop antagonizing Capt. Neill or be forever imprisoned on Rura Penthe.

265. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

God I am beginning to wonder if anyone is bloody listening to what I said.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE NEW CAST. Just because I prefer the originals DOES NOT MEAN I HATE the new cast.

And also I said that it would probably be best if Shatner was not in the new movie because it will more than likely be a contrived way to get him in the movie. If it works then by all means put him in there but the movie can work without Shatner.

And Trekprincess I am not going to argue with you again, but please read my posts the whole way through before you get on my back.

266. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

I was only responding to some nasty comments against the Shat, not an attack on the new cast.

Me preferring the originals is no different than most James Bond fans liking Sean Connery the best. I like the others as well.

267. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

Shatner cannot feel shoe horned into the film because it will feel like just that.

Yes Spock in the new movie is an extreme coincidence in how convenient Alt Kirk metts him but Spock’s presence was important to the story.

It is more difficult to get Kirk in the new movie.

So perhaps the main focus should be solely on the new cast.

268. ensign joe - April 10, 2011

#253 “Get back to me when the pro-Shat hangers-on finally win a poll”

looks like only 29% don’t want The Shat back on this poll.. Winning.

269. Kirk, James T. - April 10, 2011

Shatner should let this one go. The new cast need to be able to stand on their own two feet now without the shadows of the past looming over them.

If you want to see Shatner in Star Trek, go watch “Star Trek”

The baton was passed superbly in the first movie with Nimoy. I would rather watch William Shatner in a new season of Boston Legal than see him resurrected in a way that could only damage the credablity of the Star Trek sequel.

The past has to be put to one side and remembered for what it was so that the future may flourish.

270. Chris - April 10, 2011

New Abrams Trek gave a crap for continuity. So where’s the big deal? Bring Shatner back…

271. Jonboc - April 10, 2011

255. “And I was offended by his refusal to see the new movie, and similarly astounded when he was interviewed on the Trek Blu-Ray movie package by Whoopie Goldberg, and with Stewart, Frakes and Nimoy sitting next to him, said he had not watched one episode of the NG…”

ahaaa….now we learn why MJ has an axe to grind and the reasoning behind his disapproval for keeping Shatner out of The next movie…because he snubbed TNG by not watching it! Lol. MJ you are a piece of work.

And for those who say 80 is too old to be in Starfleet, yes, I would agree…too old to portray an aged Jim Kirk, who retired from the fleet many years ago?…not at all…Shat could pull it off with ease. But it needs to be a recording…nothing else really works.

272. trekprincess - April 10, 2011

Oh please give it a rest that you prefer the original cast that’s like beating a dead horse no offence we all know Captain Neill that you will always prefer the original cast is it ok for me to prefer the new cast :)

273. BringBackKirkPrime - April 10, 2011

Bring back the Shat!!

274. Michael - April 10, 2011

Shat reminds me of some creepy ex-girlfriend at this point.

Get over it Bill. What’s with you anyway? Who really cares about whether or not they have some stupid bit cameo in a nostalgia exploitation movie? Don’t you have other money coming in? Don’t you have anything better to do?

I’m so annoyed with this stupid, irrelevant story that I’m now completely against his involvement. Please Bill, just shut up.

275. VOODOO - April 10, 2011

According to Anthony’s most recent poll 70 percent of us hardcore fans would like to see Shatner back as Kirk one last time. I’d bet that if you put than same poll out to the general public/casual fan that number would rise to between 80-90 percent.

The reason this is such a big deal to so many people is because of the way Kirk prime was given such a useless death. They simply threw a worldwide icon (who served no purpose in Generations) off a bridge to a meaningless death so the producers of TNG could further their version of ST and not have to worry about the ghost of Kirk, Spock and company… Much to Paramounts dismay the public didn’t care about anything ST unless it involves Kirk and Spock.

Kirk prime (as well as Spock prime) and the fans that made ST the what it is deserve a more dignified ending and not being tossed off a bridge to die so the producers can bring us more variations of their mediocre (Voy,Ent,DS9) version of ST.

Bring back Shatner and give Kirk the ending this icon deserves!!!

276. NX-03 - April 10, 2011

I’ve been going back and forth the pro and against camps on this one for a while now. I keep seeing it from his perspective as a man coming to the end of his life who should be given one last shot at the role, as a tribute, before the opportunity disappears forever. That said, realistically his presence in the next film, no matter if it’s a small cameo or otherwise would totally tread on the toes of the new cast, who now have the chance, in this second movie, to raise the bar even higher from their debut performance and really make the characters their own. In an ideal world where a TV-series of some form would be running in parallel to the new movies, that would be the perfect place to carry out any Shatner tribute guest spot. 2 or 3 Shatner story episodes within a season wouldn‘t cast too big of a shadow. But, in the situation were in now – just the film series and nothing else, my answer to should he be in the new movie is verging more and more towards a simple “No”

277. Christopher Roberts - April 10, 2011

277. NX-03 “In an ideal world where a TV-series of some form would be running in parallel to the new movies, that would be the perfect place to carry out any Shatner tribute guest spot. 2 or 3 Shatner story episodes within a season wouldn‘t cast too big of a shadow.”

Or a TV Movie. Or a mini-series. Or a prominent Shatner-Kirk role in a Prime Universe DVD or Blu ray special. Enterprise or mixed 24th Century cast.

Film it ASAP, post production it over the next few years, maybe keep it back to celebrate the 50th Anniversary in 2016.

278. Matt H. - April 10, 2011

Problem with SHAT is… he whined about not being in ST09. He’s whining again about wanting to be in ST12. Giving all these different ways of how he can be “resurrected”. When my child whines, he doesn’t get JACK CHIT. I have not heard or read once where Nichelle Nichols, Walter Koenig or George Takei want to be in these movies. Point is, SHAT had his day and the other three ST legends recognize that as well. If they want SHAT there will be SHAT but until then…SHAT-the-F*ck-up.

279. Aurore - April 10, 2011

Christopher Whitelaw Pine ,

(If you are reading this) :)

Your time has come to shine.

William Shatner made the character of James Tiberius Kirk a legend.

But , now, I very much look forward to seeing what you have to offer to the Star

Trek franchise as the captain of the starship Enterprise.

280. Red Dead Ryan - April 10, 2011

I see that Captain Neill and Trekprincess are back at it again. Can’t we go JUST ONE DAMN thread without them bickering? And can’t Captain Neill just stop repeating himself? It’s gotten tiresome a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away!

281. dmduncan - April 10, 2011

280. Red Dead Ryan – April 10, 2011

I dunno, man. The language Trekprincess uses sounds a lot like the language capt_neill uses.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Trekprincess is a sock puppet and capt_neill is really arguing with himself.

282. Lt. Daniels - April 10, 2011

How about a new DVD of “Generations” with just a new ending with Spock going back in time as soon as he heard of Kirk’s death. Then helping Kirk and Picard beat Soran on Veridian lll. There was a new DVD of Star Trek: The Motion Picture .

283. Red Dead Ryan - April 10, 2011

281.
……

Captain Neill and a sock puppet……hmmmmm……well, only Anthony could tell us for sure!

284. Jonboc - April 10, 2011

#276 “no matter if it’s a small cameo or otherwise would totally tread on the toes of the new cast, who now have the chance, in this second movie, to raise the bar even higher from their debut performance and really make the characters their own”

I really can’t wrap my brain around this type of thinking, These guys ARE established as the characters. They accomplished this, in a major way, in the last movie…and I guess some here missed the results.

They were, and ARE accepted in these roles. In addition, the new cast seems to be doing quite well, outside of these roles…I doubt, at this point, any of the new cast feels any need for validation…nor do I think Pine or anyone else would feel the least bit threatened by any involvement of Shatner. The try outs are long over and the new crew has passed the audition with flying colors. Shatner’s involvement, or lack of involvement isn’t going to change that one bit.

285. Ziro - April 10, 2011

would love to see Enterprise cameos, lets see Bakula or T’Pol !!

286. Adrian Powers - April 10, 2011

As the audience member who sent in the review, I think it’s quite important to give a bit of context to the video posted above.

Earlier in the night Shatner was going on about how much he adored ST09. He said he was disappointed that he couldn’t be involved, told some amusing stories about trying to wrangle some information out of Nimoy (without success), but said that he thoroughly enjoyed the movie and thinks everyone did a fantastic job.

He then clarified that he will definitely not be in the new film, and that he isn’t bitter.

The video above took place AFTER this discussion, and Shatner’s response is a throwback to what he was talking about earlier. This is why the audience breaks into laughter — Bill already explained how he felt about the project. It’s a punchline, not a complaint.

287. alphantrion - April 10, 2011

Hell at this moment I’m even okay if he plays an older version of Pine’s Kirk, just get the guy in the movie.

288. Christopher Roberts - April 10, 2011

286. I can understand if not. Plus Archer probably died not long after Scotty lost his dog, which was years before ST09. He was already supposed to have died in 2245 actually, if you take Mike Sussman’s word for it.

I think in the tradition of Star Trek, the Abramsverse NCC-1701 ought to have an area of the ship were previous Enterprises are on display.

HMS Sailing Ship
The Aircraft Carrier
Space Shuttle
Experimental Ring-ship
NX-01 (see if you can make Doug Drexler’s secondary hull refit canon)

289. Angel - April 10, 2011

How about bringing the Enterprise of Older Kirk (Shatner) to confront the Enterprise of the Pine/Kirk. The prime time line crossing over with the parallel universe Kirks result being opposite in character to the other. With this crossing over, the space/time continuum is starting to distort and twist. The only way that the universes of both captains can be restored is that one of them sacrifices themselves for the salvation of all life that exists on both sides. Question is, who is going to have the heart and courage to do that?

290. Angel - April 10, 2011

Remember Nemesis? when Data sacrificed himself to save all human lives because of the threat imposed by the menace Shinzon. Even though he was an android…he reached a climax in his quest to be more human in doing the one thing that humanity values most…or at least should.

291. Christopher Roberts - April 10, 2011

289 (correction) WHERE previous Enterprises are on display.

*not* were – d’oh

292. tiberius - April 10, 2011

As much as I love Shatner, bringing him back would be a mistake. Nimoy already passed the torch, so let it be. The fact of the matter is Star Trek isn’t just for fans anymore, it’s for EVERYONE. Bringing Shatner back would be overkill.

293. Jonboc - April 10, 2011

# 274. “Get over it Bill. What’s with you anyway? Who really cares about whether or not they have some stupid bit cameo in a nostalgia exploitation movie? Don’t you have other money coming in? Don’t you have anything better to do?

I’m so annoyed with this stupid, irrelevant story that I’m now completely against his involvement. Please Bill, just shut up.”

…Good Lord man…take a Valium and then read post #286. Then try to understand how q &a’s work. The actor is given a question, which is usually followed by an answer. Those that were in attendance after spending their hard earned money clearly were interested in this as are quite a few other posters in this forum, (aside from MJ of course, lol) so I think the article is more than warranted and has sparked a great discussion, and as always, I’m sure boborci appreciates the feedback. So yeah, bring Bill back in a respectful, pivotal recorded cameo… kind of like Kirk’s taped message to Spock and McCoy…that was gold.

294. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

Obviously trek princess likes to argue with I am trying to make a valid point. So all I can do is do my Captain Picard face palm.

I can’t even defend Shatner without being considered a hater of the new movie, which I am not.

295. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

I am not rising to it anymore trekprincess. I am fed up with my preference over TOS and the spin offs making me out to be a hater of the new movie. I am not a hater, the new movie is great fun, it just clearly is aimed for a different audience more so than just us Trekkies.

All I hope is that the new movie is making new fans out of Star Trek. I think its cool that new audiences are discovering the other Treks as a result of the new movie, but I guess there are some who will only watch the new movie.

296. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

It seems when I am speaking up for Shatner, instead oftelling Shatner to ‘give it up” I am considered a hater of the new movie.

Even when I stated that the net movie will more than likely work better without Shatner even though Shatner will always be my fav Kirk, then some people seem to think I am not a hater.

Just because the latest movie is not my all time fav Trek does not mean I hate the film. But I guess on this site I can’t win.

Maybe I focus too much on my gripes with changes rather than the stuff in the movie that works. And for that I apologise.

297. cdp - April 10, 2011

As much as I love Mr Shatner as Kirk he had thee great years of tv plus seven pretty darn good movies and I don’t know how much more he could have added to his character anyway. So I believe that it is time to move on don’t get me wrong he did hell of a job as Kirk but the Shat had his shot and I just feel as though he sang his swang song with Generations. If He did not want to die he could have just declined the offer to appear in Genearations and waited for something else to come along but he diddn’t. He made his bed with the death scene in Geneneratins so I guess he will have to sleep in it. As much as I would love to see him play Kirk again I just don’t believe these current movies are the forum for that. This new young cast deserve a shot to stand on there on without someone like the shat coming in and steeling the spotlight. So unless Mr Orci and the writing team can find a really creative way to put him and the movie that will work and not just be some cheap gimmick to put him in the move for the sank of all the fans who want to see the Shat as Kirk one last time then I would say, lets move on and let his character that died in Generations rest in peace.

298. Keachick - April 10, 2011

As far as I can tell, the real issue has been Shatner’s refusal to do a cameo or voice over. He’s wanted a bigger role and frankly, I don’t think that would work very well, although who knows, the OK team could “pull a good one out of the hat”, which works beautifully for the story and all the cast involved.

I guess I am in a minority (nothing new for me…;)) who thinks that perhaps Shatner could be better playing a minor part as Pine/Kirk’s paternal uncle. The way Shatner could play this part would explain to the young (Pine)Kirk where he gets some of his more charming and quirky aspects of his nature from…

I have visualized a scenario which goes something like this:

The Enterprise is docked at a space station, to drop off/pick up supplies/make repairs/whatever. On this space station is James’ uncle *Peter Sam* who is awaiting a passenger transport back to Earth. (He’s finally decided to check out this space travelling lark – not being at all interested before, but pretty chuffed when he heard what his younger brother George’s son had managed to do). The two Kirks meet up and the young captain decides to give his uncle a tour of the Enterprise. *Peter Sam* is the least likely person you could imagine as being a captain of anything…except that when he follows his nephew onto the bridge of the USS Enterprise, his whole demeanour appears to totally change.

The first words he utters are “Oh my!” (Shatner should reclaim those words back from Takei) He then sits down in THE chair and looks like he’s always been there. He even crosses his legs like the young Shatner Kirk often did in TOS (I hope Shatner can still cross his legs). Lt Uhura receives a message from the space station re the departure of the passenger transport vessel and says, “Captain…”. At that very instant, the two Kirks turn to look in her direction and say, “Yes, Lieutenant”.

Shatner/Peter Sam Kirk finds himself saying that this all feels like deja vu and at that Pine/Kirk repeats “deja vu” in that questioning tone that only a Pine can do. At the same time, Spock raises the famous eyebrow and McCoy does his famous brow crease. Then Peter says, “Perhaps this is the Kirks’ next, best destiny”.

Lt Uhura informs the two Kirks that the transport is about to leave and Shatner/Kirk gets up from the chair and says he will see himself out and says to everyone in that firm tone, “Carry on, gentlemen!” . He leaves the bridge. Pine/Kirk repeats, “Deja vu? What? That’s weird…”

This might be difficult to do. I don’t know. It depends on whether the actors would be able to successfully pull it off and how it might be worked into the script, so that it doesn’t seem too contrived and artificial.

Anyway, Bob Orci, if you are reading this, a idea to contemplate. Would Shatner be willing though and without asking “an arm and a leg” to do this scene?

299. Canon Schmanon - April 10, 2011

Shat was already pathetic as Kirk in Generations. He moved like an old lady in the action scenes. I can only imagine what a terrible parody he’d be by now.

Shatner didn’t age the way Kirk would have. It would just be sad to have him in the film at this point. I certainly hope no great efforts are made to include him. They’d just be pandering to a vocal minority, and wouldn’t be doing anything to benefit the film and and its larger audience of people who don’t care if they ever see Shatner play Kirk again.

If they DO include him, I hope it’s done better than the way some people here are suggesting. It only emphasizes how pathetic the whole effort can be.

300. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

The movie would probably work best to have the new crew work solely without the any of the original cast as Shatner being in next movie will just feel forced and contrived.

The scene they had planned in the last movie didn’t work for me, so prob best to not havShatner in there.

Now if they can include him without it seeming forced then I am up for it.

But I am saddened to hear so many Star Trek fans speak in a bad tone about the legend that defined the role of Kirk, on this site.

301. Keachick - April 10, 2011

How do people know how Kirk would have aged?

302. Vultan - April 10, 2011

I think one reason Shatner wants something larger than a simple cameo is that Nimoy had such a large, important role in Trek ’09. He and Nimoy have admitted they had a friendly rivalry during the TOS years, and it makes sense the two have renewed it now they’re both media darlings again in their twilight years. Perhaps the reason Nimoy keeps retiring every other month; he’s trying to keep up with the Joneses—I mean, the Shatner.

303. AllanT - April 10, 2011

Sorry Bill. It is not that we all do not love you, ‘cuz we do, but it is not within your character’s parameters to be resurrected. Spock could get away with it. It does not fit for Kirk.

304. captain_neill - April 10, 2011

301

Exactly what I was thinking.

How would you know how Kirk would have aged since Kirk was only played by Shatner at that point?

It’s the same as saying franchise fatigue did not kill Star Trek but rather Enterprise and Nemesis, well Isn’t Enterprise not a result of the franchise being over milked.

305. Damian - April 10, 2011

I loved William Shatner as Captain Kirk. But the simple fact is that his character died. Maybe some did not like it, but he went into it with eyes opened.

Another reason is that to bring Shatner back would require extensive exposition and time in the next movie to explain how he returned. I don’t want to waste half the movie trying to explain how prime-Kirk suddenly came back from the dead. (I just don’t see Shatner agreeing to a small cameo when Nimoy had an important role in the last movie).

306. dmduncan - April 10, 2011

The movie opens on a vessel under attack by Klingons. Distress call is sent. Enterprise responds.

Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beam aboard. The ship is piloted by an offshoot of the Andorians, 10′ tall blue aliens. The alien captain begs for them to save his pregnant wife, and then dies. With the captain’s enormous wife they beam back aboard the E before the alien ship is destroyed. In sickbay McCoy is ready to deliver. She gives a howl and a final push and out comes a naked William Shatner.

“Great Saturn’s Balls, have I got a story for YOU” the slimy newborn Shatner says.

Roll titles:

Star Trek: The Curious Case of James T. Kirk.

Beat that, Bob. Beat that.

307. Canon Schmanon - April 10, 2011

As to the Shatner not aging like Kirk reference, here’s my reasoning:

Mind you, I’m expressing my OPINION when I talk about this, but I don’t see Kirk, who was a very physically active person, growing as large as Shatner, nor do I see Kirk getting a lot of plastic surgery and hair pieces and/or transplants. In fact, I don’t see Kirk aging at all, but rather dying in some battle before he goes to seed.

In my OPINION, Shatner stopped playing Kirk to character after the Motion Picture, especially starting with Final Frontier. By then, Shatner had completely subsumed the character of Kirk. I didn’t care for his characterization, so I don’t care for him to be in the next film. Again, this is my OPINION and I don’t care to argue it. Shatner was just not convincing as Kirk any longer.

In another OPINION, I think Nimoy aged the way Spock would have. I found his Spock to be perfectly in line with the character from TOS. He was still completely convincing as Spock.

308. MJ - April 10, 2011

@307 “In my OPINION, Shatner stopped playing Kirk to character after the Motion Picture, especially starting with Final Frontier. By then, Shatner had completely subsumed the character of Kirk. I didn’t care for his characterization, so I don’t care for him to be in the next film. Again, this is my OPINION and I don’t care to argue it. Shatner was just not convincing as Kirk any longer.”

Agreed!

309. MJ - April 10, 2011

@305 “Another reason is that to bring Shatner back would require extensive exposition and time in the next movie to explain how he returned. I don’t want to waste half the movie trying to explain how prime-Kirk suddenly came back from the dead. (I just don’t see Shatner agreeing to a small cameo when Nimoy had an important role in the last movie).”

Well put!

310. Jonboc - April 10, 2011

#305 “Another reason is that to bring Shatner back would require extensive exposition and time in the next movie to explain how he returned. I don’t want to waste half the movie trying to explain how prime-Kirk suddenly came back from the dead.”

Sorry, that doesn’t fly, it’s all relative to how he is brought into the story. Fortunately Bob and company are well aware of this, witness the scene they wrote for the first movie. They fully understand story structure and exposition and dont need any help from us!

311. CHRIS ROD - April 10, 2011

BRING BACK THE SHAT!!

I LOVE WILLIAM SHATNER AS KIRK!

WE NEED YOU BACK ON THE BIG SCREEN IT WOULD MAKE ME TEAR!

312. Jonboc - April 10, 2011

#307 “As to the Shatner not aging like Kirk reference, here’s my reasoning:

Mind you, I’m expressing my OPINION when I talk about this, but I don’t see Kirk, who was a very physically active person, growing as large as Shatner, nor do I see Kirk getting a lot of plastic surgery and hair pieces and/or transplants.”

The fact is, we DO know how Kirk aged…it was witnessed in The Deadly Years. THAT is on screen and THAT is how Kirks body ages…now, Shatner, at a similar advanced age, obviously looks much fitter and younger than that….so it is easily conceivable that Shatner could trim up some and play Kirk in the time between Trek 6 and Generations…turn that time into a recording of some sort, face only, passed along by Prime Spock, and it is very easily done…no weight loss required.
Bob and company know the pitfalls and what could be pulled off and what couldn’t….hence the scene they wrote. Trust your writers…if they choose to put Shatner in the movie, they will do it right and we will all be happy (unless you have a hate for shat because he never watched TNG –looking @MJ…then you’ll never be happy! lol)

313. Chain of Command - April 10, 2011

He should never have done Generations to begin with.

314. Keachick - April 10, 2011

#308 You are ignoring canon and for the purposes of this discussion, your argument has no basis. We all know how Kirk died. It is canon, whether we like it or not. Most don’t like it and wish it were not at all. That is the problem.

Shatner was and is also a very physically active person and Shatner has NOT gone to seed – anything but. What has getting a lot of plastic surgery and hair pieces and/or transplants got to do with anything? That is the actor, if what you have indicated is necessarily the case, not the character. Anyway this is not at all uncommon among actors – that is one of the ways they manage to keep getting to play different characters, younger and older than themselves. Shatner could lose a few pounds but if he were as slim as people seem to think he should be, then he would be unhealthy, even sick!!!

Actually, we as the audience, are quite lucky because we have a good indication of how the Pine/Kirk is likely to look in later years. Robert Pine – Chris Pine’s own father. (BTW, Robert Pine turns 70 on 10 July 2011).

Chris Pine does not have the same body type/build as William Shatner. Shatner has a stockier, more muscular body shape, which has served him well so far. Chris Pine has a taller, narrower body shape and could possibly suffer more musculaskeletal problems as he gets older more than Shatner may have.

Chris needs to take good care not to have too many falls/accidents on stage, where he pulled sacrum and groin muscles, while performing in The Lieutenant of Inishmore. He had to keep doing the show (no doubt he wanted to, as well), which meant lots of chiropractic treatment, massage and swallowing anti inflamatories. Chris says he is fine now, which I am very happy about…:))

315. Gallifrey1983 - April 10, 2011

Would love to see Shatner back as Kirk, one last time. Would hate to see Generations being the only thing to stop it, even the producers/writers have admitted they should have handled his last appearance differently.

With science fiction, there are a multitude of potential ways to pull it off. I hope it happens.

316. Canon Schmanon - April 10, 2011

314 -

My argument has no basis because of “canon”? You ignored the fact that I wasn’t arguing. I was expressing OPINION. I wasn’t arguing. And, in my OPINION, Shatner went to seed and Kirk wouldn’t have. Please go ahead and state your opinion as much as you want, but don’t tell me mine is invalid because of some imagined issue of canon you have in your head. My OPINION is as valid as anybody else’s.

317. MJ - April 10, 2011

@341 “#308 You are ignoring canon and for the purposes of this discussion, your argument has no basis. We all know how Kirk died. It is canon, whether we like it or not. Most don’t like it and wish it were not at all. That is the problem.”

My post #308 was simply “Agreed” (with another earlier post by Damien) so, so I am not sure what your are referring to.

Sheesh, even when I don’t say anything about “Shatie Gleason” I get slammed here. :-)

318. Jack - April 10, 2011

306. Wow, just read that before dinner and it totally ruined my appetite, possibly forever. Which is good, because then I can loosen my girdle. And my hairpiece.

I don’t know why, exactly, but I’ve totally softened on Shatner (For years I’d been stridently arguing that Shat’s arrogant/hammy/smug/
unfunny/incapable of playing any character other than himself). But there’ve been times recently where’s he’s shown a little humility… so now I’m confused.

319. MJ - April 10, 2011

@312 “Mind you, I’m expressing my OPINION when I talk about this, but I don’t see Kirk, who was a very physically active person, growing as large as Shatner, nor do I see Kirk getting a lot of plastic surgery and hair pieces and/or transplants.”

It is sad, but you are completely correct.

320. MJ - April 10, 2011

@306 ““Great Saturn’s Balls, have I got a story for YOU” the slimy newborn Shatner says. Roll titles: Star Trek: The Curious Case of James T. Kirk.”

I must say DM, I thought I had achieved the pinnacle of Trek humor here with my post about Shat playing a gay Grandpa Tiberius, with his domestic partner being a retired Captain April — played by Geore Takei, but I think you have topped me with this one! LOL

321. Keachick - April 10, 2011

Post 308 – “Again, this is my OPINION and I don’t care to argue it.”

You chose to use the word “argue”, not me.

Again post 308 – “In fact, I don’t see Kirk aging at all, but rather dying in some battle before he goes to seed.”

This is what I was referring when I said your argument had no basis for the purposes of this discussion. You are indeed ignoring. It is not me who has a problem with Star Trek canon.

“Before he goes to seed?” Given that a lot of teenagers and 20 somethings often see people in their 40′s as being old and possibly “going to seed” because they may show a few wrinkles and start to look slightly portly in appearance, how old do you think Kirk should be when he dies? In his 30s? In his 40s? Before there is any chance of him looking portly.

Curiously, when I was checking on whether the appropriate word was *portulent or portly, I found this definition for portly – “1. corpulent, stout. 2. archaic – of a stately appearance, in the sense of bearing”.
“Port – (one of many meanings) 2. external deportment, carriage, bearing”

In other words, not so long ago, William Shatner’s portly bearing would be seen as someone who was older, accomplished and distinguished.

What this is all about is the cultural shit that dictates that only people of a certain size and shape are OK to be seen in movies, are socially acceptable.

* There is no such word as portulent.

322. VOODOO - April 10, 2011

321 posts and counting about Shatner’s potential return as Kirk. The public would love it if Shatner is somehow included in this or the next film.

If it was announced tomorrow that Shat was going to be in the sequel this site would crash due to the traffic and the thread that announced his return would have a minimum of 2000 comments.

It would be a blast to see Shatner as Kirk one more time. That is the main reason he should be included.

323. MJ - April 10, 2011

@321 ““Before he goes to seed?” Given that a lot of teenagers and 20 somethings often see people in their 40’s as being old and possibly “going to seed” because they may show a few wrinkles and start to look slightly portly in appearance, how old do you think Kirk should be when he dies? In his 30s? In his 40s? Before there is any chance of him looking portly.”

Let’s just say not 81 and 300 pounds. I’ll take 81 and very fit for a 23rd Century man, but not a bald 300 pound 81-year old Captain Kirk.

@322. LOL. Yea, right. And I’ve got some real estate in Libya I’d like sell you. :-)

324. Phil - April 10, 2011

306. dmduncan – April 10, 2011

Oh, dear god, that’s funny, too……

325. Phil - April 10, 2011

323. MJ – April 10, 2011

Come on now, in this comic vein it’s been established that Stat is a rippling mass of big boned manhood, so it sould be no problem for him to take down the Klingon Empire with nothing more then a butter knife and two gallons of KY jelly…..

326. MJ - April 10, 2011

@325. LOL. Yea, I think my “Shattie Gleason” nickname is appropriate given he has become that sort of a showman these days…and I mean that positively in terms of his career, as he is raking in the dough…but it also means that he really can’t be taken seriously more as a credible actor to play Captain Kirk.

327. dmduncan - April 10, 2011

321. MJ – April 10, 2011
325. Phil – April 10, 2011

Oh thank you sirs, thank you. You are too kind. Too kind.

328. Red Dead Ryan - April 10, 2011

294 + 295 +296 +304.
…………………………

For the love of Q, can’t you just try to come up with something original once? JUST ONCE?! Every post you write we have already read before a thousand times. It’s like you’re caught in an anomaly and you’re doing the same thing over and over again. We get it. You remind me of the events of the TNG episode, “Cause And Effect”, where the same thing keeps happening over and over!

SHEESH!

329. Debbie Cohen - April 10, 2011

He should return….and it should be as he is, now. Captain Kirk set the stage for the future of many of our scientists, today ; opening the door..in a safe, easy to comprehend way; to conceptualize what ** could and may exist…* *beyond* .It was a beginning from which imagination sent many into the future; adding dimension…. Recognizing this man, for the contributions that he brought and the lasting impression of *space….* as something to revere and to bravely accept the amazing possibilities within , is only right.

He opened a door to a universe of others…, some similar and some unlike anything we’d ever thought of; one inwhich fear was not the predominating feeling; it was *wonder* and the communion of existance…. The value of this probably still isn’t even fully appreciated; not even by Mr. Shatner; but will live on far beyond Captain Kirk. I thank him for this.

Heron

330. kp - April 10, 2011

There is only one way to bring Kirk back. The new Star Trek crew has to face Khan. Spock Prime has to whisper two words to New Spock – “Kill Khan!!” Kirk re-appears.

331. Phil - April 10, 2011

It’s just horrible how closed minded I’ve been about Shat returning, when James T Kirk was so beautifully protrayed by another acting giant…who can forget the classic episode “The Last Voyage of the Starship Enterprise” with …with..John Belushi as James T. Kirk. A stunning performance, it brought a tear to my eye.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7msf6_saturday-night-live-star-trek-the-l_fun

Here is all we need, bring it to the big screen, Bob!!

332. Captain Robert April - April 10, 2011

I said it way back when, and I’ll say it again:

THERE SHALL BE NO PEACE UNTIL KIRK LIVES!

333. MJ - April 10, 2011

@332. Hey Captain April, what do you think about my idea of having you played by George Takei in the new movie, and have your character be the domestic partner for Grandpa Tiberius, to be played by William Shatner?

334. MJ - April 10, 2011

@329. You contribution of using the underutilized star symbol, ” * “, it a great thing for this website. Well done!

;-0

335. Red Dead Ryan - April 10, 2011

333.
*****

I think you’ve finally worn that one out, MJ. Too many trips to the same well, I’m afraid!

336. Keachick - April 10, 2011

In my cameo scenario, he would not be playing Captain Kirk. In the alternate universe, there is only one Captain James T Kirk and he is in his late 20s and played by Chris Pine.

You know, I was not that fussed either way whether William Shatner got to be in the next movie or not. I was thinking of possible ways that he could be brought in. I like to muse, to imagine what if…

MJ – What has Shatner’s baldness (oh no, you mean he has male pattern baldness – call out the national guard. An actor who played a captain of the Enterprise just might be bald…) got to do with prime Kirk? Ever heard of wigs, hair pieces, make up? You mean, William Shatner can’t be made to appear a bit different from what he looks like as Bill, but other actors can.

Now I really would like to see a humble and slightly portly Mr Shatner sit in that USS Enterprise chair just one more time just for the hell of it! Doubt I’ll ever see it though for all the wrong reasons.

No wonder this is so much anorexia, bulimia and obesity in society. Where is the point in anyone trying to watch what they eat, get enough exercise even though every time it is a painful process, when they see someone who is bright, active and health conscious being pulled apart, made fun of and deemed unacceptable even to appear in a small cameo scene by some? This is because he does not fit some narrow and unrealistic notion of how someone, ie everyone, should look.

I thought this was Star Trek, where differences in physical type and ideas of what constitutes beautiful and/or gracious and distinguished, albeit a bit portly, appearance would be acknowledged and embraced. It appears I was wrong. So I guess *fat* or *plus size* people need not apply to Starfleet, irrespective of what their medical physician may say about their overall fitness. UGH!!!

I just want to cry – such is my despair, shock and disgust at what I have been reading. Yeah, just too funny….Ha ha!

337. MJ - April 10, 2011

@336. OK, I’ll give you the hair arguments. So what about 81 years old, and 300 pounds…sorry, that is a harder fix. :-)

338. Red Dead Ryan - April 10, 2011

337.
*****

William Shatner ain’t nearly that heavy. He’s in pretty good shape. Plus I think he’s lost some weight lately. He looks pretty damn good and quite healthy. He’s energetic too.

Even if he were to appear in the next film, it’s not like he’d be playing the captain of the Enterprise. That would be naive and pretentious. He’d either be playing a hologram of his younger self, or he’d play an older, retired Kirk from the new timeline. Neither of which necessarily need him to drop weight. Even if he had to, I’m sure he’d be able to. He’d just have to work out and change his diet slightly.

339. MJ - April 10, 2011

@336 “No wonder this is so much anorexia, bulimia and obesity in society. Where is the point in anyone trying to watch what they eat, get enough exercise even though every time it is a painful process, when they see someone who is bright, active and health conscious being pulled apart, made fun of and deemed unacceptable even to appear in a small cameo scene by some? This is because he does not fit some narrow and unrealistic notion of how someone, ie everyone, should look”

Oh, come on. We are talking about a Starship Captain in the 23rd Century, not about today’s societal obesity problems. I am a bit overweight myself, and I certainly am not an elitist on this issue. I want to see fit people on the Enterprise of the 23rd Century, not “tankers.”

340. Phil - April 10, 2011

336. Keachick – April 10, 2011

I’d be more then happy to give Sean Connery a role. Really…

341. MJ - April 10, 2011

@338. He looks in the new video here like he has ballooned out again. I agree that he was recently (e.g. his American Pickers appearance) looking like he had lost weight, but I think he has put more weight on again.

342. MJ - April 10, 2011

Again RDR, I am not opposed to a cameo appearance, but I don’t think his ego would allow that.

343. Red Dead Ryan - April 10, 2011

342.
…….

Well then you’d have more credibility if you criticised him for his ego rather than his weight. Because if Shatner wants a big role in the sequel and demands too much money and the writers can’t accommodate him, then it would all be on him. Weight is much harder to control than ego. I’m not necessarily saying Mr.Shatner is egotistical, but he does have a fairly large ego. It’s what has made him into the legend that he is, and is what made the character of Kirk so real and so iconic, yet clearly he was upset with J.J Abrams for awhile about being left out of the recent movie.

344. MJ - April 10, 2011

@343 “Weight is much harder to control than ego.”

For the Shat, I suspect ego would be much harder to control, but that is just my opinion based on his actions in recent years towards Trek, including Abrams-Trek and the post-TOS series.

345. T'Cal - April 10, 2011

The more I watch Generations the less I like it. So many flaws. I’m easing up on Nemesis, though. The more I see it the less it sucks. It won’t ever be a good movie; it’ll just suck a little less. I loved First Contact and liked Insurrection for the very reason many don’t – it plays like an episode. I prefer my TNG on TV.

Kirk’s dead. Move on, Mr. Shatner. This is getting pathetic. He would be a distraction in the next film.

346. Keachick - April 10, 2011

MJ – You are not reading this properly – William Shatner IS FIT, so there is no reason he could not be on the Enterprise of the 23rd century. Get it. WILLIAM SHATNER IS FIT, in spite of the fact that he appears overweight or a “tanker” as you put it. How can I make it plainer? Good grief. That is my point – you are discriminating against someone simply because of their outward appearance that you think is not good, despite the fact that the person in question is FIT AND HEALTHY for his age, and quite possibly fitter than some people half his age.

I wonder how Chris Pine will fare. Will he have some “flaw” in his appearance that would suddenly deem him unfit, despite all evidence to the contrary? This is just too bad, too stupid.

Nobody is perfect. William Shatner is *perfect*, just as he is, with his many faults. And that goes for Chris Pine as well.

William Shatner turned 80 on 22 March 2011 this year. Hopefully, filming will start around July/August and if he does do a cameo, he will still be 80 and I suspect he more likely weigh around 95 kilos (about 220 pounds), most of that muscle. Chris Pine is said to weigh about 180 pounds (just under 90 kilos). He is younger, taller, a bit slighter in build and well toned. He would weigh less if he did not have toned muscle.

Anyone know for sure what Shatner’s present weight is?

347. MJ - April 10, 2011

@346. Sheesh, getting an acting role to play Captain James T. Kirk should not be an experiment in the social acceptance of obese people. Rather it should be about having an actor play him that looks credible for the part. Again, I don’t think Shat looks credible, with the exception of a brief cameo role.

348. MJ - April 10, 2011

If Shat is 220 pounds, then I am Obama’s dad. And that tire around his midsection is not muscle. Now you are straining the credibility here as well — give me a break!

349. MJ - April 10, 2011

Sorry, you asked for it. See the article here, including the photos and the Shat’s really asinine behavior:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1237637/Boldly-growing-William-Shatner-reveals-expanding-waistline-beach.html

350. Keachick - April 10, 2011

William Shatner would look credible as James Kirk’s Uncle Peter Samuel Kirk and my idea is having him in a cameo role. The question is – would it fit into any script and would Shatner do it?

Hey, I’ve never been into fat. I like tall, slender men, like Chris Pine. But I don’t like blatant, ignorant discrimination either. William Shatner played a Kirk, a captain in the prime universe, and there is no reason why he could not play a Kirk again in this alternate universe, weight or no weight, hair piece or not. The Kirks, it would appear, are meant to keep their hair as they get older, so therefore he would wear a hair piece if he does not have his own hair.

Refusing Shatner a role simply because of his appearance/weight is just NOT good enough, NOT acceptable, especially given how Shatner comes across as being the bright, sure footed person that he appears to be on so much film of late.

351. Keachick - April 10, 2011

Really? I asked for it, did I? That photo appeared in the NZ Woman’s Weekly and I had a copy of it before anyone else, even before that picture appeared on the internet. LOL Truly. I was given a subscription to the weekly magazine, so I was one of the first to see those pics in the world…Gotta love it…LOL

Note the date – 20 December 2009. He has lost weight, just like he said he wanted to and he does not look like that now.

352. MJ - April 10, 2011

I just want credible actors playing the characters on Trek. If it helps you to justify your position by supporting Shat to label me as ignorant, and a person who practices discrimination, then I guess I will just need to take that hit as part of your feeble attempt to grasp at straws here to support a non-defensible position.

353. Thorbury - April 10, 2011

“The moment that Nimoy as Spock saw Pine as Kirk and immediately recognized him, my suspension of disbelief, already on shaky grounds, was shattered.”

Yeah. It’s like Patrick Stewart thinking he looked like Tom Hardy. Pretty woeful.

354. Iowagirl - April 10, 2011

Ah, Monday, 4/11/2011, and Shatner as Kirk is still being discussed as if there’s no tomorrow…

Good! :)

355. MJ - April 11, 2011

@353. “The moment that Nimoy as Spock saw Pine as Kirk and immediately recognized him, my suspension of disbelief, already on shaky grounds, was shattered.”

That’s exactly how I would feel in seeing Shatner play Captain Kirk at 80 years old and 300 pounds. “That’s Captain Kirk in the 23rd Century…dude, what in the hell happened to you?”

356. jim - April 11, 2011

Yo Bob Orci! How about this for an idea…

Given that in the first movie Bones managed to give Pine Kirk some pretty weird side effects to get him on the ship, with hilarious effect, I can see two ways of bringing the Shat back.

1. A short comical scene where Bones accidentally ages Pine into Shat.
2. Or a spacial anomaly rips through the Enterprise aging members of the crew suddenly (brings in the surviving cast!). It could be an area of space where weird shit happens, which offers all sorts of things (Old cast, old design ship, etc). Maybe a remnant of Nero’s screwing with time and space.

Just sayin.

357. Tom - April 11, 2011

In generations, an “echo” of Guinan is in the nexus, she says something to Picard that she can’t go back to reality with him because there is already a Guinan there….no such problem with Kirk.

Besides, I always felt it was a copy of Kirk (when he first entered the Nexus) that helped Picard. The “real” Kirk had been there 70 years or so, there was no way he would leave, but a copy of Kirk, when he first entered, would have been, and did, leave the nexus.

Makes no sense that the Nexus would just have Kirk on pause for 70 years waiting for Picard.

358. Admiral_Bumblebee - April 11, 2011

It needs to happen. Bring him back, together with Leonard Nimoy for one last adventure!

Resurrected Prime Kirk (as villain with lost memory) and Prime Spock together one last time, this would be so fantastic!

359. captain_neill - April 11, 2011

357

Ah but you forget that “time has no meaning in the Nexus”

360. Damian - April 11, 2011

357–The Crucible-Kirk book actually used that premise. The “echo” of Kirk still in the Nexus was used extensively in the story.

My problems with Shatner being in the next movie are two-fold.

(1)–His acting style. As some others have noted, his portrayal of Kirk deteriorated by the time Star Trek V came around and never quite recovered. As great as Star Trek VI was, there were moments that I rolled my eyes at Shatner’s acting style. He started mocking his own style.

(2)–No matter how you slice it, to bring his character back from the dead would require some sort of time travel (Bob Orci has all but ruled out time travel from this point on) and some amount of explanation to explain his “resurrection.” Yes Spock came back from the dead, but he is an alien. That allows for some flexibility. A human who is dead and buried would take some explanation to give him the type of role he will accept. He is not going to accept a cameo role. I would not have a problem necessarily with a small cameo role or him playing some family member, but I am convinced he will not do that. He wants to be Kirk-prime in a role at least as important as Nimoy (even he said him and Nimoy have a sort of competition). He has an ego (there is nothing wrong with that in an actor, just a fact of life). He is not so desperate to be in the next movie that he will just accept anything.

Also, lets not forget the talented cast JJ Abrams has assembled. They did an excellent job. Leonard Nimoy has given them a proper send off. In addition, didn’t Bob or Alex Lindelof already say they are not planning on a Shatner-Kirk resurrection. That pretty much only leaves the possibility of a cameo (again, something I just do not believe Shatner would be interested in). I really think this is a dead issue.

361. Timncc1701 - April 11, 2011

Shat Shat Shat Shat…Where there is a will there is a way for him to be in the movie. It would be cool if the new universe changed the prime universe history and Kirk Prime never died. Dude is 80; there won’t be many more chances to have him involved. That is all.

362. Admiral_Bumblebee - April 11, 2011

They knew from all the discussion during the production of Star Trek 11 that there is a demand for Shatner’s return as Kirk. They couldn’t fit him into the movie – ok… But they could have started the production of the new film with a story for Star Trek 12 that incorporated his return. They had the time to make up a story that included Prime Kirk’s return and the new crew. Mr Orci and Kurtzman are very talented people so I think thy could have come up with a great story that included Shatner and the new crew.
Yes there are people who do not want to see him in the move BUT I think that many people would go crazy to hear him reprise his role as Kirk. He still is known as James T. Kirk worldwide!
So I think there are other elements at work here preventing Shatner’s return. Some grudges with the studio… I don’t know.
But I think it would be a waste to not include him.

And I also think that Shatner needs to return as Prime Kirk and not as some grandfather of young Kirk or hologram or some cook… He IS James T. Kirk and no one else.

363. Jack - April 11, 2011

i think Adam West should be be brought back as older version of Christian Bale in Nolan’s next Batman movie.

Whether it’s weight or his ubiquity, he’s not so believable as anyone other than William Shatner. But, more than that, Pine’s Kirk is a lot different than Shat’s Kirk… Having Shat there might really make that difference a lot more jarring, to the point that it really pulls everyone out of the movie. It could really highlight the “hey, these new guys aren’t really the Star Trek characters.”

But, still, a lots’s in the writing and directing, Kirk in Generations wasn’t written as the James T. Kirk we’d known, I think, and more like Shatner (who likes Great Danes, horses and younger women).

And I just want some new stories — they captured the spirit of the original, after years of staleness, and that, right there, pays more respect to the
original cast than any cameo.

364. Jack - April 11, 2011

Lots’s = lot’s

And the he in the second graph is Shatner. ;)

Another example is giving Alec Baldwin, Harrison Ford and Ben Affleck major roles in Pine’s new Jack Ryan movie. I know, the character first appeared in books and Baldwin didn’t “create” him, or make him particularly memorable, but…

Having any of Sean Connery, George Lazenby, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan playing older versions of Daniel Craig in the next Bond flick?

365. captain_neill - April 11, 2011

The more I think about this the more it would prob be best to not have Shatner in the next movie. Cause no matter what it will seem forced and not a natural way of including him.

Spock is easier as he did not die (a second time) and Vulcans have a long life span but Kirk’s death in Generations makes it more difficult.

I feel brave for admitting this even though to me Shatner will always be my fav Kirk, that I think perhaps it is best to allow the new cast to go on their own.

Hope this makes sense.

366. Damian - April 11, 2011

288–Have to agree about Archer. A Bakula cameo would have been nice in the sense that his co-stars always said he was great to work with and he has nothing but good things to say about his time on Star Trek. Of the series, Enterprise had to worse send off and a small bit role might have helped in that regard. However, as you noted in the original timeline his character supposedly died in 2245. Even if Nero’s changes resulted him in living another few years, it is highly unlikely he would be alive until after 2258. The dog incident could have happened years prior to the movie or the dog might have even outlived Archer before being sent to transporter oblivion.

367. rocketscientist - April 11, 2011

The hologram scene was very touching. I really liked it, but I think Bob Orci got something wrong wrt the timing. I believe Kirk sent the greeting to Spock because Spock was going to Romulus as an ambassador. Well, that happened during TNG, definitely. I guess it could’ve happened after TUC too with the whole thing with Pardek, so maybe I’m wrong about this. Anyway, Bob Orci, if you see this, I really did like that scene. I’m sorry you were out-voted on including it.

Other than the recording, I guess you could always bring back the whole Nexus thing. Yes, it’s a plot-hole nightmare, a total deux ex machina, but we saw that the Nexus had an “echol” of Guinan, so why not one of Kirk-Prime. Since the Nexus is timeless, doesn’t it stand to reason that it would exist in the alternate timeline as well and that Kirk Prime would be in it? Maybe before he met Picard?

If you do that, though, you’d have to bring the Nexus into the story, and I’m pretty certain, at this point, that Orci, Kurtzmann, and Lindelof didn’t go that direction with their new story. I totally understand their reasoning. If you want to ressurect or bring Kirk back this way, then that pretty much sets the direction for the entire film, just like resurrecting Spock in TSFS.

I’m not in favor of having Shatner play another character or of him appearing as an older version of alt-Kirk. He’s so identified with Kirk, that it would hurt me to see them go with casting him as another character. Also, it just doesn’t make sense to me of having a flashforward or looking back frame with Shatner playing an elder alt-Kirk.

If they’re going to have him in the film, resurrected or not, I want it as Kirk-prime.

368. Trekprincess - April 11, 2011

Well my fav will always be Pine’s Kirk no offence

369. Trekprincess - April 11, 2011

I want Shatner back he’s the greatest Kirk ok I will admit that Pine still has a long way to go before becoming an legend like Shatner no offence as I am a lover of both Pine and Shatner I truthfully have to say that William Shatner will and always will be kirk even Chris Pine himself said that :) hope that all makes sense

370. Tom - April 11, 2011

Bob Orci has always been honest here. Wondering what he’s thinking since he’s been relatively quiet. Shatner or no Shatner? Are they still trying? Is he already in or definitely out?

371. n1701ncc - April 11, 2011

William Shatner belongs in the next movie. Here is a great concept for the script. Talos IV where the young Kirk meets the old Kirk. The old Kirk is the one that figures out how to deal with big headed dudes. Of course Pike is there as well and gets out of the wheel chair

372. Brett Campbell - April 11, 2011

300 – “But I am saddened to hear so many Star Trek fans speak in a bad tone about the legend that defined the role of Kirk, on this site.”

Me too. Amen. For me, he will always be THE captain.

373. NTH - April 11, 2011

J.J. Abrams is on record as as saying that one of the most difficult decisions he has had to make was leaving Bill Shatner out of the last movie.He must therefore have placed some value in an appearance by Bill and was not concerned by his age,size ego,acting ability or any other criticisn that is levelled at him.Another,and perhaps last ,opportunity is presenting itself for his appearance,no matter how brief ,as James T.Kirk and I hope it is availed of by the very creative team that are developing the storyline.Shatner had no difficulty returning to the Kirk roll for the television advertisment he made a few years ago and his recent Emmy and Golden Globe sucesses surely indicate that he is far from being past it.If the will is truly there by all parties then surely a way can be found for one last appearance that is relevant to the storyline.

374. Danpaine - April 11, 2011

372. Brett Campbell – April 11, 2011
300 – “But I am saddened to hear so many Star Trek fans speak in a bad tone about the legend that defined the role of Kirk, on this site.”

Me too. Amen. For me, he will always be THE captain.

—————————

No doubt about it. No one will ever even come Close.

375. Thomas - April 11, 2011

365. captain neill

I don’t think anyone can rightfully begrudge you for your honesty. Especially as you have chosen not to be antagonistic about your true feelings, feeling I must say I share to some extent.

376. Damian - April 11, 2011

Not everyone who does not want Shatner in it is necessarily antagonistic. For me the fact is that I don’t want to spend half the movie explaining how he is now suddenly alive (remember, they spent a whole movie to resurrect Spock). No matter how you slice it, the prime universe Kirk died. You can’t just have him show up and not explain how he got there. I don’t doubt Bob Orci’s writing ability, but simple logic would lead one to believe that.

Also, the whole point of this alternate universe was to tell a new story about the original crew with a new cast. The original cast has gone off into the sunset. Star Trek VI was a great send off for the original crew. Are we just going to keep resurrecting the old cast. I’m starting to think that people are not as satisfied with Chris Pine. Yes, Shatner will always be the Captain Kirk anyone playing Kirk will be compared to. I thought Pine did a great job. I’ve said my farewell’s to the original crew. It was a great ride and the original series will always be the best. But Shatner said his farewell to the role in 1994 when he agreed to play his character’s death. He knew the consequence of that was that his Captain Kirk would not be coming back. To bring him back would basically be as JJ Abrams said the last time–a fanboy attempt to get Shatner in the film just to have him there.

377. MJ - April 11, 2011

@365. “The more I think about this the more it would prob be best to not have Shatner in the next movie. Cause no matter what it will seem forced and not a natural way of including him.”

Agreed, Captain Nell.

@300 “But I am saddened to hear so many Star Trek fans speak in a bad tone about the legend that defined the role of Kirk, on this site.”

It is his lack of respect for Star Trek the past several years that has reduced my respect for him. He has an attitude that “it is all about me” that I find distasteful.

378. Phil - April 11, 2011

The most vocal opponent of Shatners involvement in the next movie isn’t attacking his legacy, it’s that he is coming across as an opportunist. He was dismissive of the sequel shows, badmouthed Trek 09, predicted it’s failure because his considerable talents were not involved, and when he was wrong on all counts, suddenlyhle loves the new direction and wants a part?

Shatner defined the role, no question, and deserves the accolades for it. But come on, people, this is no public outcry for Shatner to re-create the role anymore then there is for Connery to recreate Bond, or Adam West to recreate Batman.

379. star trackie - April 11, 2011

#370 “Bob Orci has always been honest here. Wondering what he’s thinking since he’s been relatively quiet. Shatner or no Shatner? Are they still trying? Is he already in or definitely out?”

I don’t think we’ll ever know…or at least I hope we don’t, especially if they are trying to get him in…it would sure be a great surprise and awesome cherry atop the icing of an already delicious cake!

380. Phil - April 11, 2011

Oh, and the poll still shows “No Shat” leading. Keep in mind there have only been a bit over 2500 votes, so a bit over 700 are solid no, and all others at 1800. Considering that millions of tickets were sold, this hardly indicates a groundsell of support for bringing back Shatner..

381. star trackie - April 11, 2011

#360 “My problems with Shatner being in the next movie are two-fold.

(1)–His acting style. As some others have noted, his portrayal of Kirk deteriorated by the time Star Trek V came around and never quite recovered. As great as Star Trek VI was, there were moments that I rolled my eyes at Shatner’s acting style. He started mocking his own style. ”

I seem to hear this from a select few but I still don’t see it. Please list specifics..what scene do you feel didn’t work? And are you possitive there are no comparables in TOS where the acting by Shatner was similar?
I just dont see it. I see an older Shatner portraying an older Kirk.

382. Damian - April 11, 2011

381–

There is a pronounced difference between Star Trek IV and V with his acting style. Think of comedians who made fun of Captain Kirk in the past. He started acting exactly like how they used to portray Shatner, the voice inflections, the facial expressions.

For example in Star Trek V, the whole brig scene where he is going back and forth with Spock with the “You made that up” or in Star Trek VI some of the scenes during dinner with the Klingons and after.

383. Jack - April 11, 2011

376 agreed.

381. yep, there were moments in TOS, especially in the third season, where the camp took over, the girdle got more obvious… and, yes, I’m part of the “select few” who saw at least as much Shatner as Kirk in V and generations. And it applies even with the humor in VI (as they say in your century, I don’t even have your telephone number). He overplays if he’s not reined in. If you don’t agree then, well, you don’t agree.

But, I’d say the same thing for Nimoy, Spock became more like him, but in that case it fit the character.

And maybe Shatner would do it differently now — his attitude about the character seemed to change after Generations.

384. Damian - April 11, 2011

I would say that through Star Trek IV, for the most part, Shatner’s portrayal of Kirk worked. As Jack noted, there were times he could have been reined in but it never became eye rolling. I don’t know if it was him trying to direct Star Trek V, but it was like a switch was turned. He became the very caricature people used to make fun of him for before. I could no long easily dismiss it. Some people feel differently. There is not much I can say to change someone’s mind about it. It is more fundamental then just pointing to any one scene. It’s his attitude throughout each of his films Star Trek V, VI and Generations. I agree with Jack, more Shatner starts to show through in those movies than before.

That being said, that is one of two reasons I don’t feel the need to revisit Shatner as Kirk, the other being his character had a rather final death.

385. Jack - April 11, 2011

384. Like you said, a resurrect-Kirk movie, or a bring Kirk back from the future movie, would be just that. It’s (alternate future kirk being dead) not a problem to the characters in this new universe, because Kirk’s alive and hot, er, well.

and, technically (here we go), Shat’s Kirk (Prime) can’t access this new timeline from anywhere after it diverged from his timeline, because he was never part of it. unlike Soock, who was already traveling when Nero changed things, and thus appeared in the altered past (?).

but whatever, I just want new stories.

386. Jack - April 11, 2011

Er, Spock.

iPhone.

387. MJ - April 11, 2011

@378 “it’s that he is coming across as an opportunist. He was dismissive of the sequel shows, badmouthed Trek 09, predicted it’s failure because his considerable talents were not involved, and when he was wrong on all counts, suddenly he loves the new direction and wants a part?”

Exactly. And add “jerk” to go with “opportunist” and “distasteful”, regarding his actions the past several years regarding Trek.

388. MJ - April 11, 2011

@384 “I don’t know if it was him trying to direct Star Trek V, but it was like a switch was turned. He became the very caricature people used to make fun of him for before.”

Good point as well !

389. MJ - April 11, 2011

@345 “Kirk’s dead. Move on, Mr. Shatner. This is getting pathetic. He would be a distraction in the next film.”

Well said!

390. Shannon Nutt - April 11, 2011

When I interviewed Bill Shatner back in 2002, I actually asked him about if he was afraid of death since he was seeming doing so many projects at the time that dealt with it, and he replied:

“The end is approaching!….Yes, that’s true. The fascination of death is there. ”

It’s interesting to me that a decade later, Bill still seems to be obsessed with what awaits – if anything – in the next life. I think when he lost Nadine, it really made him become aware of his mortality…of course, that’s just speculation on my part.

391. Phobos - April 11, 2011

Would’t it be simply amazing if Kirk prime and Spock prime meet up for even just a few moments in the next movie?

It would preferably have to be other than a recording.

392. Phil - April 11, 2011

384. Damian – April 11, 2011

No, it wasn’t just you. I recall several reviews where the comments “mailed in” and “cashing his check” were tossed around…a lot. I don’t begrudge the man for wanting to stay active and wanting to work. I didn’t discover Boston Legal until reruns, and that was a good role for him – but even bringing that, or his talk show host persona back to an action/adventure role would be bad. I’m not losing any sleep over the debate, because I really don’t see anyone stepping up to the plate for him to get him in the next move. Seriously, JJ, Bob telling Paramount “if Shatner isn’t in it, neither am I!!”??!!??

393. Spock Of Ages - April 11, 2011

MAKE IT HAPPEN YOU DEVILS!

394. Phil - April 11, 2011

391. Phobos – April 11, 2011

Yeah, Kirk and Spock pass each in the Starfleet officers lounge. It would be epic.

395. Phobos - April 11, 2011

Well I don’t care what anyone thinks, I feel one of the most grandiose moments of ST 1 was when Spock prime fended off the monster in the ice cavern and then met young Kirk.

Kirk prime would most likely have the same effect.

396. MC1 Doug - April 11, 2011

Not to denigrate any of the fine work from the cast of the 2009 movie, but will we even talk about–or care– about this cast 20, 30, 40 years from now like we have the original cast… or the cast of Next Gen, for that matter?

I think not…

397. ML31 - April 11, 2011

I could see it working with Shatner playing a Kirk relative. But in the end, it would just feel like stunt casting. While it might be fun to see Shat as Kirk one last time, I think the reboot would just be better off without him.

398. MJ - April 11, 2011

@394 “Kirk prime would most likely have the same effect..”

Except that Nimoy still looks like Spock and can convincingly play the part still. Shattie Gleason cannot.

399. MJ - April 11, 2011

@396. The TOS cast will always predominate. However, I do see the new cast having more staying power than TNG cast — I don’t see that show having nearly the staying power of TOS.

400. Phobos - April 11, 2011

Look, putting Kirk prime in would increase the repeat movie visits of the TOS fans (probably now 30yr+).

Instead of going to see ST2 say 3 times, we might end up going 5+ times throughout the whole summer.

Repeat business makes a difference to the bottom line of the movie.
Remember, ST is normally not a 300 million$ movie, it would be wise to leverage all possible ticket sale sources (new and previous generations) to ensure ST2 is a financial success.

A few minuts of Kirk prime in the movie can only help and in no way hurt it.

401. Jack - April 11, 2011

384. I remember reading a making of Trek V book, by one of his daughters, and the process was about Shatner — essentially, I like rock climbing and horses so Kirk does too. And he chipped in ideas (I think they used his Great Dane) for Generations, including Kirk having a love interest. But, he’s an actor, and that (er, we’ll call it confidence) comes with the territory. There were scenes cut from Trek II where he was pretty Shatnerry (where Kirk made jokes in that *look, I’m making a joke* style
of Shatner’s). Picard seemed a bit more like Patrick Stewart (as seen In interviews) than Picard in Insurrection, complete with the silliness of the mambo and Gilbert and Sullivan (and I don’t think it was a coincidence that he was a producer).

I think he still had one or two Kirk moments in V (“I need my pain,” — hammy, but in character), and a few more in VI, but in Insurrection it was 99% Shatner (and maybe it was written that way).

402. Keachick - April 11, 2011

I have read every post written in this thread. MJ – I do find your harping on a man’s physical appearance indefensible, even when certain facts get pointed out and repeated. You keep saying you want to see “fit” people in Starfleet but nowhere did you mention that what defines a “fit and healthy” person is that their actual height and physical appearance, as in being lean looking. As someone else pointed, when it was first mooted that Shatner might be able to appear in the Star Trek 09, clearly his girth seemed to be not a consideration at all for JJ Abrams and the team. There was no Shatner girth than there is now.
Leonard Nimoy was OK because he still looked like Spock – tall and lean in appearance, you mean. In actual fact, Leonard Nimoy has never been as fit as William Shatner. Shatner has had to work at it, because of his body type, whereas Nimoy has been able to “sit around” because he has a body type that does not gain weight, but that does not mean that he necessarily has a healthy fat/cholesterol/muscle ratio index. Shatner could climb stairs and generally move faster, ride horses etc without getting nearly as puffed as Leonard Nimoy. In fact, it was that realization that got Leonard Nimoy thinking about his health issues and doing something about them. Appearances can be very deceptive at times.

So, if you don’t mind, enough with the pointing. Did your mother not tell you that it is rude to point?

I don’t like the idea of resurrecting prime Kirk. He left the nexus and died on the planet and the nexus did not pass over the planet – that was the whole point of the movie – to prevent the destruction of this planet and the nearby planet with 230million inhabitants. Forced and contrived.

The holo-image is slightly better but not much. The idea of nuSpock or nuKirk looking at an image of an older version of themselves pointing out friendship etc is patronizing and almost an imposition. The original Kirk and Spock did not need holo-whatevers to tell how to become friends etc. Let the new Kirk and Spock sort that out for themselves in this new time and universe.

So it comes back to Shatner playing an older Kirk relative, like Jim Kirk’s uncle, George Kirk’s older brother. It just might work. Shatner is meant to be first and foremost an actor. So get him to actually ACT. If he can’t or won’t, oh well, perhaps it is for the best that he does not appear in the sequel at all.

403. Phil - April 11, 2011

@ 402. Just can’t resist the urge to lecture someone now, can you?

404. Jonboc - April 11, 2011

#360. “His acting style. As some others have noted, his portrayal of Kirk deteriorated by the time Star Trek V came around and never quite recovered. As great as Star Trek VI was, there were moments that I rolled my eyes at Shatner’s acting style. He started mocking his own style. ”

I agree with this to a point. But the fact is, this strange new style of Shatner’s didn’t magically turn on with Trek 5. It’s in every movie…Kirk waxing poetic in Trek 3….”it’s like a home with all the children gone…” or Maltz-”You said you’d kill me”…Kirk-”I lied.” How about the iconic mad scream of rage “KAAAAAAAAAHN!!”. WAY over the top and WAY out of character. Or the motion picture where Kirk shoves his hand into Bones face… “Dammit Bones I NEED YOU!” who the he’ll was that? Wasn’t the Kirk I knew. Then there’s the hamfisted delivery of the declaration of independence…cutting a deal with the Iotians…losing his composure in front of Spock after being infected in The Naked Time. Shatner wasn’t consistently Kirk, even in TOS….so the whole “Shatner’s portrayal of “Kirk changed suddenly in Trek 5″ just doesn’t hold water.

Dislike Shatner’s acting all you want, but at least be consistent and dislike all of it…he has run hot and cold…one scene subtley played with great conviction followed by another that is questionable or over the top… since day one. And certainly, some of that was due to what his various directors wanted …but age, toupes and body mass have nothing to do with it.

405. Phobos - April 11, 2011

When a thread on having Kirk in a movie is running at 405 posts then you know there is interest.

This is an easy decision for Abrams. Use Shatner. And quite frankly, Paramount owes it to Shatner.

406. dmduncan - April 11, 2011

402: “The holo-image is slightly better but not much. The idea of nuSpock or nuKirk looking at an image of an older version of themselves pointing out friendship etc is patronizing and almost an imposition.”

Well, to be fair you ought to read the hologram scene before you cal it patronizing, and it sounds to me like you didn’t do that.

There’s nothing “patronizing” about it and Kirk Prime doesn’t “tell” young Spock to be friends with Kirk Pine. The holo scene is a message to Spock Prime that Spock keeps with him. What that scene does is to provide an example to young Spock through the obviously close friendship Spock Prime and Kirk Prime had. It shows a possibility that isn’t all that obvious given the amount of friction Kirk and Spock have between them in the new universe.

Kirk has good reason to get over that animosity through his meeting and mind meld with Spock Prime, but Spock Quinto has no such similar experience to change his own mind. The unfilmed Shatner scene goes some way toward giving him that.

407. Jack - April 11, 2011

405. Why do they owe a movie role to Shatner? And if to him, then why not to the rest of the cast?

406. spock’s motivation to get over his animosity has already been shown — he worked with Kirk and, presumably, saw that there was more to the guy. Plus, Spock heard it from himself. Not everyone needs a testimonial from the future version of their bff, they could simply learn to like and respect each other like the rest of us do.

404 “at least be consistent and dislike all of it”
Why? I like when he was in character and didn’t overplay it, I didn’t like when he was Shatnery (in any of his roles). That’s pretty consistent.

But, yeah, while there were always hammy moments (and I actually think “Khaaan!!!” wasn’t entirely out of character, dude did a lot of hollering back on TOS) and distractions (the curly toupee of the ’80s) — I bought him as the character.

But in V and Generations, it wasn’t just about the occasional performance choice (those come with the territory) — I just couldn’t make myself believe that it was Kirk, the captain of a space ship, and not Shatner, lover of Great Danes, up on the screen.

Heck, Nimoy’s portrayal of Spock was quite different in every movie, but I still bought him as the character.

408. Jack - April 11, 2011

PS. Spock carrying a holo of Kirk with him on an apparent suicide mission seems a little gay.

409. dmduncan - April 11, 2011

407: “406. spock’s motivation to get over his animosity has already been shown — he worked with Kirk and, presumably, saw that there was more to the guy.”

Well which is it? If you think it was shown why do you need to presume it?

Working together doesn’t mean you suddenly like who you are working with. So that explains nothing. Just like I said.

“Plus, Spock heard it from himself.”

Off the point, and sterile compared to the Shatner scene. The Shatner scene SHOWED him something words could not.

“Not everyone needs a testimonial from the future version of their bff, they could simply learn to like and respect each other like the rest of us do.”

It enriches the movie by shedding more light on Spock’s motivation. If you are going to make an argument that we don’t need to see motivation, then I suppose you could also cut out the bar scene, the Spock getting into a fight as a boy scene, the Spock refusing admittance to the Vulcan Science Academy scene.

We could just speed it up even more and assume whatever we want to.

I prefer the Shatner scene.

410. dmduncan - April 11, 2011

408: “PS. Spock carrying a holo of Kirk with him on an apparent suicide mission seems a little gay.”

What, are you ten years old or something?

411. Jonboc - April 11, 2011

407, when I say, dislike it all, I’m referring to the “off” moments from ALL of trek…not the ” he was Kirk until hes acting suddenly changed in Trek 5.” rational I’ve been reading here.

and Kirk never…ever…EVER screamed at the top of his lungs, red, shaking with rage like he did when he was screaming KAAAAAAAAAAAAHN! in TOS…unless your thinking of the evil Captain Kirk…who did it quite wonderfully I might add. :) The only real rational I can come up with, besides a bad acting moment by Shat, is that he was really REALLY trying to sell it to Kahn. I mean, Kirk knew all the time that Spock was coming back to pick him up shortly….Kirk was in no real danger and he knew it…so, he over did it to make Kahn believe it. Or he was just having a bad Shatner moment and Meyer was having a bad Meyer moment…which is probably the case. :)

why you can’t buy him as Kirk in Trek V and later, yet you can in all the rest… when what is onscreen is all very much delivered in the same sporadic fashion… is a mystery. Don’t ask me, I don’t get it….perhaps at some point you started paying more attention to the man Shatner, whom you don’t care for…and then, at the moment of that disappointing discovery, you became unable separate the man from the role. Never really understood the inability, by some, to disassociate actors from their fictional roles, but as you, MJ and some others on this site demonstrate, you guys are definitely out there! takes all kinds! lol

412. Phil - April 11, 2011

410. dmduncan – April 11, 2011

Probably closer to 15……

413. MJ - April 11, 2011

@402. Keachick, this is not about a horeback riding contest, a foot race, or the chlosterol levels of Shat and Nimoy. You are missing the point completely — it is about which of them can still portray their 23d Century role of Spock and Kirk. I maintain the Nimoy still can and Shatner cannot, as Nimoy still looks credible in the roll while Shatner unfortunately, does not. I’m happy that the Shat leads an active life and does a lot of horseback riding, but nevertheless,at his current size, combined with his advanced age, I just don’t find him credible as Kirk. Nimoy is just as old, by Nimoy still looks like Spock….Shatner no longer likes like Kirk. Sorry, that is just the way it is.

Additionally, I have two other reasons why I am dubious of the Shat returning as Kirk:

– As many others have pointed out here, he really has not done a good acting job playing Kirk since Trek 4, nearly 25 years ago. He performances on Trek 5, 6 and 7 were dissapointing to many of us. Does his have it in him to somehow, now, 25 years later, at 80 and weighign 300 pounds, to all of a suddent stun us all with a commanding peformance of Captain James T. Kirk? You might not admit it here, but I would bet you have hidden doubts about this as well?

– Based on the way he has behaved towards others in the Trek franchaise in recent years (see multiple earlier posts from me and others), I frankly don’t want to see his whining about not being in the new movies rewarded with a part in the new movie. I am really sick of his obvious “its all about me” attidude, and I am not buying the poor ole Shat deserves one last bone argument here that some have put foward. Let’s face it, the guy is kind of a jerk.

414. MJ - April 11, 2011

@411 “….. is that he was really REALLY trying to sell it to Khan. I mean, Kirk knew all the time that Spock was coming back to pick him up shortly”

Duh! Of course he was trying to sell Khan. I was not fooled by this even the first time sitting in the theater watching Trek 2 all those years ago. So no, this is not a bad acting lesson of Shatner; rather it is Kirk himself acting to fool Khan — you can see in Kirk’s face that he is deliberately overdoing it. Come on!

415. MJ - April 11, 2011

@408: “PS. Spock carrying a holo of Kirk with him on an apparent suicide mission seems a little gay.”

It does seem contrived and a little silly.

416. Phil - April 11, 2011

413. MJ – April 11, 2011

One other point – asides from waving a torch at the frosty lobster critter, Old Spock seems to have settled nicely into the elder statesman role….overing advice, piloting a spaceship, stuff that didn’t require a ton of effort. Shat was huffing and puffing his way through Generations, why are we to assume he’s no better or worse 17 years later? Why are we to assume he would accept a Nimoy type role now, when he’s been openly disdainful of similar parts in the past?
I know, these points have been made several times now…sigh…

417. MJ - April 11, 2011

@404 “Or the motion picture where Kirk shoves his hand into Bones face… “Dammit Bones I NEED YOU!” who the he’ll was that? Wasn’t the Kirk I knew.”

Huh? To me, that was perhaps the best example in TMP of Kirk behaving like his old TOS self???

418. Keachick - April 11, 2011

MJ – I never said it was about a horseriding contest or whatever. I use these examples as evidence of fitness. You want to see “fit” people in Starfleet. Is there an age limitation? Who says that the character Shatner might play would necessarily be in Starfleet anyway? Are you being deliberately facetious? If you had bothered to read my posts, I wrote that I did not think it was a good idea for Shatner to play James T Kirk again (Chris Pine is James T Kirk now in this alternate universe). I suggested that he play an uncle, older brother of George Kirk. Siblings don’t always look exactly alike. Variations in physique, eye colour etc would not then be any kind of problem.

Sorry, Phil, if you feel lectured to. I just “lectured” in the above paragraph but that is because another poster seemed not to comprehend exactly what I had written re the role Shatner could best play. There is little more for me to say on the matter. I have given my opinions and the reasons for them.

I’ve not had the opportunity to see the holo scenes that could have been in the first film, because they decided not to put them in, nor did they put in the Deleted Scenes of Special Features section of the DVDs. I’m not the only one who is not so fussed with the idea of a holographic message type scene.

Geez, I’m tired…

419. Phil - April 11, 2011

@418. Just an observation. Cheers…..

420. MJ - April 11, 2011

@418 “I use these examples as evidence of fitness.”

Yea, and so I responded to the examples…and then you freak out on me saying you didn’t really mean to use them as examples of fitness…huh???

“because another poster seemed not to comprehend exactly what I had written”

I guess that would be me, the facetious guy who practices age discrimination and whose mother didn’t raise me properly. No, I comprehended fully what you had written, but didn’t happen to agree with it.

“There is little more for me to say on the matter.”

Well we agree on something, finally! :-)

421. Damian - April 11, 2011

Sorry, I see a marked difference between Shatner’s acting between IV and V. Shatner was always a ham, as some like to put it, but the over the top stuff was not through the whole show/movie. In V, VI and Generations, he seemed to not take the role seriously anymore. I don’t know how to better put it.

I’ve got nothing against Shatner, per se. I love to watch the original series and movies. He will always be the original Captain Kirk. It’s just that I said goodbye to him a long time ago. I want Bob Orci and the crew to blow me away with a good, original story. I don’t want a contrived plot to resurrect prime Kirk from the dead. I believe if the pro-Shatner forces had their way, they would be sadly disappointed. They would be saying that this is not the Captain Kirk they remembered. He’s more like Denny Crane, less like Captain Kirk these days.

422. MJ - April 11, 2011

@421. “Sorry, I see a marked difference between Shatner’s acting between IV and V. Shatner was always a ham, as some like to put it, but the over the top stuff was not through the whole show/movie. In V, VI and Generations, he seemed to not take the role seriously anymore. I don’t know how to better put it.”

Exactly, and now many years later, with his physically appearance also substantially diverging from Captain Kirk, we are suppose to believe that he could somehow recapture the performance of Kirk that we have not seen in over 25 years? It really stretches the imagination to think that this would not come across as lame in contrived in the next movie — in fact, I think it would be embarrassing, and provide fodder for late night tv jokes about Shat and Trek, and detract from the movie in a negative way.

423. MJ - April 11, 2011

@407 “But in V and Generations, it wasn’t just about the occasional performance choice (those come with the territory) — I just couldn’t make myself believe that it was Kirk, the captain of a space ship, and not Shatner, lover of Great Danes, up on the screen.”

Agreed!

424. Damian - April 11, 2011

396–That is an interesting point. I wonder if 30 years from now people will still be watching Star Trek (2009). I thought it was a great story with great actors. But does anything made today really have any staying power?

My own, admittedly uneducated guess depends on how things pan out with the next movie(s). How many does this team of producers and actors do. If it is only a 2 or 3 movie jaunt, interest may wane. Does another TV series come out involving this new universe, or do they revert back to the prime universe? Right now that is all up in the air.

Also, long term, did Abrams vision create new Star Trek fans who go back and watch and enjoy what came before? Or are they mostly just Abrams-Trek fans who stop watching when Abrams leaves the franchise?

425. Damian - April 11, 2011

422–” I think it would be embarrassing, and provide fodder for late night tv jokes about Shat and Trek, and detract from the movie in a negative way.”

Another concern of mine. Some have posted that Bob Orci is a good enough writer to find some creative way of resurrecting Kirk-prime. But Orci’s writing prowess is not an issue. It’s William Shatner who would be the issue. No amount of expert, Academy Award level writing can make Shatner be something he no longer is. He will still act like Shatner acts today. You are not going to see that Shatner from Star Trek II. You are going to see Shatner as he is today. Believe what you like, his style of acting has changed dramatically these days.

426. Damian - April 11, 2011

Also there seems to be this idea that if Shatner wants to be in it, he deserves to be, no matter how much it might detract from the story. However, as a fan of the spinoffs and TNG movies, I’ve long ago gotten used to the idea of Star Trek withouth the original cast. For me, I’ve enjoyed hundreds of episodes and 3 movies that had no involvement from the original cast whatsoever. At the end of the day, it’s just not that big of a deal for an original cast member to be in a movie for me to love it.

427. Damian - April 11, 2011

Sorry, last sentence in my 426 should be original cast member not to be in it for me to enjoy it. It’s getting past my bedtime.

428. Phil - April 11, 2011

424. Damian – April 11, 2011

My guess would be probably not. The TOS cast generated content over a period of forty years, enough time for the characters to become engrained in a generation. Like Gunsmoke. Or The Simpsons. If this cast is three and done, then it’s on Paramount/CBS to either create contentelsewhere, re-introduce the ST universe in a different format, say a different ship or perhaps from a different viewpoint, say Klingons. Basically it the situation George Lucas had with his first group of Star Wars movies and his second. Serials have a long history in Hollywood, as long as the studio is making money they will keep revisiting the well. Bond dosen’t look anything like he did 50 years ago, though, so we need to keep expecting ST to change, too.

429. Jonboc - April 11, 2011

#417. “@404 “Or the motion picture where Kirk shoves his hand into Bones face… “Dammit Bones I NEED YOU!” who the he’ll was that? Wasn’t the Kirk I knew.”

Huh? To me, that was perhaps the best example in TMP of Kirk behaving like his old TOS self???”

Well…the sentiment was there..not sure it was indicative of TOS, Kirk never really pleaded to anyone for anything….but the sentiment was there. The acting, on the other hand….well…uh…yeah….bad.

430. Jack - April 11, 2011

410. Apparently. Hey, I’m gay. It just seemed a little romantic. Sorry, it’s spring and I’m feeling a little punchy

407: “Well which is it? If you think it was shown why do you need to presume it? Working together doesn’t mean you suddenly like who you are working with. So that explains nothing. Just like I said.”

Yeah, the word presumably was unnecessary. I was clumsily trying to say that we weren’t force fed anything. We were shown. They’re working together at the end of the film, we see a glimmer of that mutual respect and, most importantly, Spock takes the darned job as Kirk’s first officer and Kirk accepts.

All that is there. It’s a movie about the start of an unlikely friendship, and that’s what we got.

Yes, of course not everyone who works together suddenly starts liking each other, but we’re talking about James T. Kirk and Spock here. And we’re not talking about a job at the office here but a captain and his first officer. Who’s to say that original Kirk and Spock didn’t clash originally (and at least one novel has)? They’re not so close in Where No Man Has Gone Before. They developed a friendship — based on respect, I think — over years, without instructions from their future selves.

They’re grown-ups. They’ll figure out whether they like each other. They don’t need to be set up by Kirk and Spock senior (hey, I know this guy who you’d totally get along with. You guys should have coffee) It doesn’t make sense that the only way Spock would have boarded the Enterprise at the end is with Old Spock pulling out a prop (“You know that guy you hated. Hey, look, he’s wishing me a happy birthday. See? So don’t leave starfleet and you guys get along, okay). And, in fact, we know that he boarded without that scene.

And, frankly a hologram of old Kirk would be a lot more convincing to Pine’s Kirk — evidence from himself, and Spock had that holo keychain with him back in the cave — than to a young Spock, who can take his own word for it.

And, from the internal logic department, Spock could have told young Kirk and Spock all of this (tell Spock that I said you guys are friends and I say you should be captain, just tell him to mind meld with you and he’ll hear what I said. It will be easier than being throttled) from the beginning, but he wanted them to figure it out for themselves (I know this because he said so). Because it made a better movie.

On a tangent, as for the scene itself — what was essential about it? Why not a holo of Kirk’s eulogy in Trek II (which was beautiful and much more moving)? Yes, I know, the purpose was to shoehorn Shatner into the movie but that friendship has been documented well elsewhere. I don’t believe the character of Kirk had left something unsaid that had to be said here, in (and here’s where it gets a little messy) a recording made by a Shatner who’s supposedly 16-years younger than he is now. I didn’t see any great insight into either character in what was written. Point is, we’ve seen the old relationship, let’s see the new one.

You like the unfilmed scene, I don’t. Maybe I’m wrong and it would have been beautiful. But that ship has warped. That movie is over. Kirk and Spock are now on the same team. They both agreed to it. I suspect papers were signed. So they don’t need 15 seconds of convincing from an aged Kirk from a completely different time line. Might things be not so smooth in the beginning? Might they clash again? Might logic and emotion be a tough fit. I sure hope so. That’s why they worked so well together, as characters, before.

Now one could argue well, then how about a different holo message from old Kirk (“Captain, you have a delivery from Mr. Spock’s alternate furure self) for a different reason in the next one? And I say, how and why? Maybe a reminder that he should get his prostate checked more often? (Old Kirk “Happy Birthday Spock.Just thinking, if there was one thing I could tell my younger self, it would be, don’t try Retinax 5. That was awful. Oh, and stay away from Klingons. And fatty foods. And don’t dump Carol Marcus. Happy Birthday… PS. Rosebud). Sorry, feeling punchy again.

417. I agree. “Damn it, Bones, I need you,” and the Trek III, post death-of Spock log entry, “The Enterprise feels like a house with all the children gone. No, more empty even than that” are very much in character.

431. MJ - April 11, 2011

@430 “They’re grown-ups. They’ll figure out whether they like each other. They don’t need to be set up by Kirk and Spock senior (hey, I know this guy who you’d totally get along with. You guys should have coffee) It doesn’t make sense that the only way Spock would have boarded the Enterprise at the end is with Old Spock pulling out a prop (”You know that guy you hated. Hey, look, he’s wishing me a happy birthday. See? So don’t leave starfleet and you guys get along, okay). And, in fact, we know that he boarded without that scene.”

You know, Jack, I never really liked that missing scene that DM and others wanted in the movie, but your post here puts it in better words than I could have come up how contrived, unnecessary and frankly silly this scene would have been in the last movie. Thank goodness this never worked out!

432. Jack - April 11, 2011

431. (sheepishly) Thanks. I rambled on a bit.

If they can do it (Shatner in the flick) and it works, I’ll be thrilled (and will eat crow). But I don’t think it’s necessary. I get that some people do.

433. Phobos - April 11, 2011

Nothing is necessary. ST 2 will be fine wo Kirk prime. But it would be a hell of a lot more fun if Shatner was in it.

Sidenote: Shatner does not have to live up to past accomplishments e.g., weight, age, acting intensity, etc. As a ‘prime’ there is a big part of the awe that happens on its own in the minds of the viewers; that happened with Nimoy.

434. MJ - April 11, 2011

@433. For me, the “awe” might be: “awe shucks, look how huge Captain Kirk got.” :-)

And it is good that you aren’t expecting much out of his performance and appearance, because low expectations are the only way we are going to be able to handle what I believe will be a contrived, lame and somewhat embarrassing portion of the movie where he would be playing Captain Kirk Prime.

435. Thomas - April 11, 2011

430. Jack

Kudos for a very thoughtful post on the issue. Your post, I feel, perfectly summarizes an essential point of the movie: we see how two people from different worlds (literally) come together in extreme circumstances and how (with some careful prodding) they form the basis of what will become an enduring friendship. What matters is how we see the characters come together and I think this movie did a good job of showing that.

I had liked the holo-recording scene previously (having felt Shatner’s participation would’ve been icing, but not necessary), but I’m starting to come around to your line of thinking. I’ve thought it could’ve been a nice scene, but it isn’t necessary. My hope is that the filmmakers make a great sequel that takes what the first movie started and expands upon it. They created a new universe to play in, now let’s see what’s out there.

436. Keachick - April 11, 2011

#430 “…And don’t dump Carol Marcus…”

Except that Carol Marcus effectively dumped him. She said, “I wanted him (David) in my world…not gallivanting around the stars with his father”. Kirk said to Carol Marcus, “I did as you asked. I stayed away.”

I agree with your post, Jack. The truth is that neither Shatner or Nimoy are necessary for the sequel. I was just trying to think of ways of including the Shat man that might work for all concerned, which is why Shatner should play a Kirk, a relative of James T Kirk. However, according to the poll, only 7% agree with this idea. Oh well…

I think if Anthony did another poll where it was simply a question requiring either a Yes or No answer, I would probably vote No, in spite of the objections of MJ not because of them, but for other reasons. Sorry if I appear contradictory to some…

437. captain_neill - April 11, 2011

I agree with MC1 and it was what I was getting before certain people asumed I was attacking the new cast.
We have SHatner, Nimoy, Kelly et all to thank for these wonderful characters. If it was not for them then Pine and Quinto would not havethese characters to play.

To insult the originals is to be disrespectful a little bit of the past. We owe the the originals to make it possible for the new actors.

Now it probably took me a long time to accept a new cast playing these iconic characters, and although hy heart will always remain with the originals, I do like the new cast.

438. MJ - April 12, 2011

@436 “I would probably vote No, in spite of the objections of MJ not because of them, but for other reasons”

Glad to be of service! :-)

439. MJ - April 12, 2011

All, it seems like many of us have now come full circle on this topic and we have a general consensus emerging that most of us would now prefer that the JJ/Orci Trek movies continue on without William Shatner playing Kirk.

Thanks to everyone for your participation in these very interesting and sometimes intense discussions.

440. Jack - April 12, 2011

436. “except that Carol Marcus effectively dumped him…”

Ha. Good catch. Yeah, I’d thought of that just as I’d written it, but let lazinesss/being sick of my own writing win and left it there. Er, “Don’t let Carol Marcus dump you?” ;)

You know, we all have our own opinions on this (Shat being in the movie) and reasons for them. I don’t think you sound contradictory. I’ve made my own (ridiculously lengthy) No Shat arguments, but, despite my lame fat jokes here, I don’t think age or weight should disqualify Shatner. I do wonder whether or not he could pull it off (playing Kirk again) but I’d be thrilled if he could. Would it work well in this movie series (because of the story reasons we’ve all discussed)? That I have my doubts about.

441. Paulaner - April 12, 2011

As someone else already said, Shatner could be the aged version of Chris Pine. Pine or not, the character is always James T. Kirk.

442. lostrod - April 12, 2011

BTW Anthony – in case you haven’t already got the word, Mr. Shatner tweeted:

“I understand a Happy Birthday is in order for Anthony of @TrekMovie. All the best to you, Bill”.

Nice!

Happy birthday!

Regards.

443. I, Mugsy - April 12, 2011

It’s not complicated at all to bring Kirk – Who’s to say the Kirk in the Nexus WAS the real Kirk prime??!? To be frank, he acted so out of character in places, and the script was so poorly written that it could just be an ‘echo’ of FACETS of our Kirk, that died in the Nexus.

He could turn up unexpectedly in the ‘new’ Trek universe and meet up with Spock Prime – Spock Prime could momentarily display a huge surge of emotion, then compose himself (like in Amok Time!) and throw Kirk’s original words from Wrath of Khan back at him,

“Aren’t you dead?” with a lifted eyebrow – I bet there wouldn’t be a dry eye in the house :) It would be a LEGENDARY Trek moment!

COME ON – they’re both 80 now – it really IS now or never to bring back BOTH these legendary characters on film and have them reunited at last, as a side story in the new movie, or – heck – even a TV movie for both of them. I can’t believe Paramount haven’t even considered this…

PLEASE Mr Orci Sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

444. Phil - April 12, 2011

@443. Dear god, please don’t go there…..sappy sentiment will not put cheeks in the seats, and in all likelihood drive them away.

445. NX-03 - April 12, 2011

Ah ha! I’ve got it – how about a secondary federation ship appearing within the film that is named the USS Shatner. Any two main bridge crew characters could have a brief conversation about it being named after an old earth actor who was most famed for his role in a popular sci-fi show.

Or not.

446. Phil - April 12, 2011

@ 445…A peculiar design flaw on this ship – all the transporters malfunction at least once a day, creating copies that are younger, older, evil, or emotional sops. So the ships registry only lists six crew members – Jim Kirk….but there are six hundred copies, at various stages of development, ensuring that the good captain will engulf the known universe within five years. Oh, the other five are the space hippies. They are down in the galley working on their special brownies, and are not allowed anywhere near the transporter.

We need to lobby to rename this thread “bad fiction”. We have tons of raw material to get it started.

447. Thomas - April 12, 2011

All this talk has brought to mind some questions and issues I think Trekkiedom is going to have to ask itself and consider in the near future:

-How long can we go on “honoring the past” before we run the risk of sacrificing the future? What I mean is, how long can we (or should we) keep demanding new roles for previous Trek actors (especially if it means reviving their old characters) before it gets to the point that the quality of new Trek begins to suffer? If Trek is about the new and unknown, how can fandom as a whole keep demanding the same-old same-old? Why should the producers or studio feel beholden to any one actor or personality who came before? The previous cast had their time to shine, and I hope it was a good one, but this cast and crew needs to stand on its’ own now. Please understand this is not meant to be disrespectful to anyone, but I feel it is a salient point.

-Trek is currently in a period of renewal. The success of the last movie among critics and general audiences has brought Trek back into the public consciousness. When I heard that J.J. Abrams was going to be involved, I knew instantly that the movie would have broader appeal. I didn’t know how, but I knew that it would. I knew people who were never interested to Trek who suddenly took interest when J.J. became involved. That said, there is the issue of new audiences and what they might like to see. The producers have to make a movie that’s going to haver the broadest possible appeal. They may be considerate of fandom on these matters (kudos to boborci), but at the same time, they can’t make a movie that would appeal more exclusively to the diehard fans than to more casual audiences. Trek needs to be (and should be) accessible, and the last movie made that possible.

448. Aurore - April 12, 2011

Well articulated Thomas. Thanks.

449. Thomas - April 12, 2011

Sorry to double-post, but I saw this on Aint It Cool News and thought people here would like it. Here are some details on Bryan Singer’s Star Trek series pitch:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/49241

450. Thomas - April 12, 2011

Sorry to double-post, but I saw this on Aint It Cool News and thought people here would like it. Here are some details on Bryan Singer’s Star Trek series pitch:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/49241

451. Damian - April 12, 2011

447–Trekkies want movies that cater to them, and as a Trekkie I can sympathize, but I am also realistic. The films have to attract a wider audience. TV shows can afford to cater to a particular audience, because they are the ones that will tune in week in and week out. They need viewer loyalty. Movies need people to buy tickets. To only cater to one type of audience for a movie is bad for business.

Positives in Shatners appearance are that some original series fans want to see him play the role again (I am not at all convinced that if Shatner were given his wish, that at some point down the road he would want yet one more good-bye). Negatives are that I really believe it would distract attention from whatever story the new team wants to tell. I think it’s clear, Shatner wants to be the prime-Captain Kirk, resurrected from the dead. That would be a distraction away from the new cast, specifically Chris Pine. Frankly, I think it’s a little selfish of Shatner. No matter how they play it, Shatner with his ego and his acting style, is going to steal the show, for better or worse.

I just do not see how any good can do with a Captain Kirk resurrection from the prime universe. It would require some ridiculous explanation of how he appeared that would stretch credibility.

Forget the cameo, I think it’s clear from Shatner’s own mouth that he wants a role at least as important as Nimoy’s in the last film.

Forget a Nimoy reappearance. His final appearance in Star Trek made it pretty clear he has sent off the new crew. He has already said he has no plans to appear again, he is very satisfied with his farewell, and I take him at his word. He will not do Star Trek again.

Forget time travel, the new team has already ruled that out. Bob Orci has already said it will not be used again on his watch.

It seems what some Trekkies really want is another Star Trek movie with Shatner and Nimoy playing starring roles. Others just want a scene with those two, no matter how incongruent it is to the rest of the movies.

452. MJ - April 12, 2011

@443 ““Aren’t you dead?” with a lifted eyebrow – I bet there wouldn’t be a dry eye in the house :) It would be a LEGENDARY Trek moment!”

You’d be crying, most everyone else would be cringing or laughing. Give me a break! This would be just AWFUL!!! It is not the 80′s anymore folks — no one outside of a few hardcore Trek sentimentalists wants to reunite a buchn of Trek 80+ year olds for the next movie…ARGH…this is getting fracking ridiculous!!!

453. MJ - April 12, 2011

@447 “-How long can we go on “honoring the past” before we run the risk of sacrificing the future? What I mean is, how long can we (or should we) keep demanding new roles for previous Trek actors (especially if it means reviving their old characters) before it gets to the point that the quality of new Trek begins to suffer? If Trek is about the new and unknown, how can fandom as a whole keep demanding the same-old same-old?”

As a great starship Captain once said:

“THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN, HEEERRREEEE”

Enough is enough. The baton was gracefully and honorable passed in the last movie, and nuTrek is now set to move on and explore with the new actors playing the roles.

William Shatner is doing a tremendous disservice to Trekdom with his whining and campaigning to be in the new movie. What as ass — I can now see why most of the original cast despised this guy.

454. NX-03 - April 12, 2011

@446 – lmao. Indeed.

Just out of curiosity, is this a trekmovie record breaker in terms of comments on a story, or has it been known to go well beyond this?

455. Captain Hackett - April 12, 2011

NO SHAT!

456. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

Don’t like Singer’s idea. It’s nothing different than TOS with new villains and aliens to encounter on a new mission of exploration.

I’m not interested in the TOS idea being redone with new characters, ships, aliens. TOS was The Bomb. Don’t try to out-TOS TOS.

457. star trackie - April 12, 2011

#439 “All, it seems like many of us have now come full circle on this topic and we have a general consensus emerging that most of us would now prefer that the JJ/Orci Trek movies continue on without William Shatner playing Kirk.”

If, by your definition of general consensus you mean MJ, Jack and damian…then you would be correct! :)

458. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

430: “And, frankly a hologram of old Kirk would be a lot more convincing to Pine’s Kirk — evidence from himself, and Spock had that holo keychain with him back in the cave — than to a young Spock, who can take his own word for it. ”

No. Kirk mind melded with Spock, so he knew through that experience a lot more about Spock than any words were going to tell him. He experienced what Spock FELT.

And once again, taking somebody’s word isn’t as good as the real evidence, which that holographic message was.

It’s not force feeding anybody anything, it’s actual evidence to the character which by being such also provides an in-film reason why Spock was able to overcome some of his animosity toward Kirk.

Do we need it? No. Do we need to see young Spock beating up another Vulcan? No. You could also do away with that motivational illustration too. But moments like that enrich the film. They make the film deeper and more meaningful.

459. MJ - April 12, 2011

@456. Agreed, and it sounds a lot like Voyager as well…been there, done that, and it was not pleasant.

460. MJ - April 12, 2011

@458. “Do we need it? No.”

I agree completely! :-)

461. P Technobabble - April 12, 2011

447. Thomas

I agree with you. The nostalgic, longing for the past is a quality we humans tend to take on as we see the things we grew up with fading off into the sunset, and realize they aren’t coming back. They can be re-made, re-booted, re-imagined, but the originals have moved on.
If we hang onto the things of the past for too long, those things begin looking and smelling like last month’s dinner. And who wants that? I think it’s far more appropriate to simply remember the Treks of the past, and we can do that in mind, or by reading books, or watching dvds, etc.

462. MJ - April 12, 2011

@457. Don’t worry Star Trackie, I have you down as one of the two to three Trek fans in the theater who would be crying at the Nimoy-Shat geriatric reunion scene, while the rest of us Trek fans cringe, and the non-Trek fans in the audience laugh.

:-)

463. Mike Thompson UK - April 12, 2011

The new cast are good enough to go alone, but I would love to see Shatner and Nimoy back on the big screen together. They won’t last forever.

464. MJ - April 12, 2011

@461. “If we hang onto the things of the past for too long, those things begin looking and smelling like last month’s dinner. And who wants that? I think it’s far more appropriate to simply remember the Treks of the past, and we can do that in mind, or by reading books, or watching dvds, etc.”

Well said!

465. lostrod - April 12, 2011

MJ – if anyone’s an ass, that would have to be you.

Your constant bashing of Mr. Shatner got old pretty quick. You made your opinion clear so maybe you should move on.

Frankly, I haven’t heard Mr. Shatner ‘whine’ about not being in the movie. He simply answer the same question over and over again.

The pattern is pretty set. We know the routine by now. He makes an appearance for whatever project he’s doing (and he has a lot going on) and someone always asks the same questions about him being or not being in a ST movie again. He answers. This site, or someother site, makes it a headline and the same arguments back and forth begin again.

Rather than have a simple discussion, people like you have to pile on the personal insults to a distinguished senior citizen.

So that makes you an ass. But that’s just my opinion and does not necessarily reflect the views and opinion of Anthony or anyone else associated with this site.

Now granted, it’s been a long hot day and it’s after 10 pm here in Iraq, so maybe I’m just a bit tired and grouchy.

Regards.

466. MJ - April 12, 2011

@463. Argh…Scotty, please beam me out of here.

467. MJ - April 12, 2011

@465. So be it. If it takes an ass to know one (Shat), then I accept the label.

468. Mike Thompson UK - April 12, 2011

Perhaps they can do the ageing virus story and your left with an old spock and old Kirk on the bridge.

I hope I’m doing half the stuff they are doing at the age of 80 if indeed I make it.

469. MJ - April 12, 2011

@468. Why not go a step further and do “A Weekend at Bernie’s” version of Star Trek, where entire original cast can participate, dead or alive?

:-)

470. Mike Thompson UK - April 12, 2011

That’s it……….

Star Trek: The day of the living dead.

471. NX-03 - April 12, 2011

Yeah Bryan Singer’s Trek doesn’t sound all that great but I’d be over the moon if it had been given a green light. 2 or 3 years is way too long to wait for new Trek. If for some strange reason they decided to bring back, I don’t know, Voyager say – I’d welcome it with open arms, not because I’m a huge Voyager fan (It’s probably my least favourite) but the very fact that we’d have brand new weekly Trek on TV would be enough for me. It’s way too long to wait between films nowadays. For some reason I have to keep having to remind myself that it’s NEXT summer it’s out, not this year. I feel bad for wishing my life away, but Shatner or no Shatner….hurry up and be 2012 already! : )

472. star trackie - April 12, 2011

#462 “@457. Don’t worry Star Trackie, I have you down as one of the two to three Trek fans in the theater who would be crying at the Nimoy-Shat geriatric reunion scene, while the rest of us Trek fans cringe, and the non-Trek fans in the audience laugh.”

…as delusional as ever I see…those treatments with Dr. Adams don’t seem to be working! :)
Oh well…at least you’re not too far gone, you haven’t insisted a return to TNG!

473. captain_neill - April 12, 2011

God some real disrespect on this site

474. MJ - April 12, 2011

@473. Are you praying for us?

475. Jack - April 12, 2011

458. The hologram wasn’t Spock’s motivation, well, because it doesn’t exist — he joined the Enterprise as Kirk’s FO based on his experience working together with Kirk. The other scenes you mentioned (Spock being teased as a kid) are important, further the story, and do provide characters’ motivation. And, no,I agree that those scenes shouldn’t be cut. Everything else — what Kirk learned about their friendship or about Spock, other than that he feels emotion, through the mind meld — is speculation. What we see is that they work together (when Spock has no idea that they’ll be friends in the future) to beat Nero. They’re not taking anyone’s word — they figure it out on their own. That’s what’s in the movie.

Would it have been a nice moment? Maybe. So, are you saying you want it filmed now, for the next one?

476. Shannon Nutt - April 12, 2011

It always amazes me when people start ranting about Shatner’s ego and/or lack of acting ability. I think all those years that George, Walter, Jimmy and Nichelle spent on the convention circuit berating Bill has rubbed off on some of you.

The fact of the matter is that Bill is one HECK of a good actor, and also one of the nicest guys you’d ever meet…at least as far as Hollywood-types go. Do I think he’s as talented as Leonard is and Dee was? No. But he’s worlds better than his other Trek co-stars.

It’s become fashionable to bash Shatner among many Trek fans…I wish more people appreciated his talent while the guy is still with us.

477. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

475: “The hologram wasn’t Spock’s motivation…”

As filmed. No kidding. It PROVIDES an explanation for Spock’s motivation that the film doesn’t have without it, other than what Spock Prime said to him which is weaker and more abstract than the reality the evidence of the holo message conveys.

“The other scenes you mentioned (Spock being teased as a kid) are important, further the story, and do provide characters’ motivation.”

What a coincidence. I agree. Which is also true of the Shatner scene.

462: “@457. Don’t worry Star Trackie, I have you down as one of the two to three Trek fans in the theater who would be crying at the Nimoy-Shat geriatric reunion scene, while the rest of us Trek fans cringe, and the non-Trek fans in the audience laugh.”

MJ is delusional at times. A poll from August of 2010, which continues to reflect the reality that fans have consistently wanted Shatner in the sequel:

William Shatner in Star Trek Sequel?

Yes — role like Nimoy’s in Star Trek 2009 (40%)
Yes — cameo (25%)
No (35%)

Total Votes: 2777

But wait, that’s not all folks! On the matter of the unfilmed Shatner scene, there was ALSO a poll (oh how soon they forget). From November:

What do you think of the Shatner Scene?

Should have been in film (64%)
Good, but better without it (29%)
Don’t like it (7%)

And that was something like 744 votes.

I’m guessing MJ’s votes made up 90% of the 7% who didn’t like the scene.

478. Keachick - April 12, 2011

So, Mr Bob Orci, how is that script coming along? Has any of this been helpful? …LOL

Anyway, I like my idea…:)

479. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

476. Shannon Nutt – April 12, 2011

Naw man, Shatner CAN be bad. But when on his game as he frequently was, he was the best actor on the show.

480. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

475: “are you saying you want it filmed now, for the next one?”

No. I’m saying if JJ had the nads he’d film it and rerelease the movie in theaters with it prior to the sequel arriving.

481. MJ - April 12, 2011

@477. LOL

Nice job re-categorizing the survey to fit your own summary categories to prove your position. Unfortunately, surveys don’t work that way. The following is from a guide to surveys that I have:

“If a survey question actually contains more than one issue, the researcher will not know which one the respondent is answering. Care should be taken to ask one question at a time.”

The Shat question in the most recent survey reads as mutliple options for Shat, so many responders want to pick an option for Shat (versus doing a yes or no question, which should have been a seperate question). If the question had directly got at the Shat versus No-Shat question, then we obviously expecte an answer that woud correlate must closer to the 60% (“no Shat” and “Maybe/Not Important about Shat”) of folks who essentially voted No/Don’t Care-Shat in Anthony’s earlier survey (see Anthony’s post #238).

I look forward to the day when Anthony will provide us a simple “No Shat” or “Yes Shat” poll to decide this once and for all. Until then, what we have to go by is the 60% for No Shat/Don’t Care from the earlier poll, and the No-Shat category demonstratively winning this multi-category poll.

482. MJ - April 12, 2011

@479 “But when on his game as he frequently was…”

“was” is the key word he. The Shat has not turned in a killer performance of Captain James T. Kirk since Star Trek IV, a quarter of a century ago.

483. Ian Fee - April 12, 2011

Take a leaf out of Marvel Studios book and put in a post end credits scene. The great thing about these scenes is that they’re not essential to the movie’s plot but are usually big Geek moments (Nick Fury at the end of Iron Man, Tony Stark at the end of Hulk, Mjolnir in Iron Man 2). It would be a way to acknowledge Mr Shatner while taking nothing away from the main story and the new cast. Might I suggest my scene from @56? Pretty please?

484. MJ - April 12, 2011

@483. That is a great idea. I could live with that!

485. Jack - April 12, 2011

“If you are going to make an argument that we don’t need to see motivation, then I suppose you could also cut out the bar scene, the Spock getting into a fight as a boy scene, the Spock refusing admittance to the Vulcan Science Academy scene.”

Dude, that’s what I was responding to (to paraphrase, “well if that scene isn’t necessary then why not get rid of everything?”) and, yeah, my point is, I’m not arguing that we don’t need to see motivation. I don’t think Spock needed additional motivation and I explained my reasoning.

You think the scene would have provided it, I don’t. Those other scenes were necessary to the film, they’re experiences that shaped the characters, but this one wasn’t. I didn’t walk out of the film saying, “I just don’t understand why Spock joined the crew at the end.” And, reading the scene I don’t think “now I get why he joined. That makes so much sense now.” Again, just my opinion.

Yes,of course I know you know that the scene wasn’t in the film, but my point, and you know this, was that it worked fine without it. And, like I’ve said, seeing an old Kirk from another timeline saying that he and his version of old Spock were best buddies isn’t going to change this character’s mind, although it might be confirmation of what he’d already figured out himself. You keep saying it’s showing rather than telling. What’s it showing him, exactly, other than an older version of Kirk saying they were friends in another time? So what if they were? I know I’m not going to convince you, but I really don’t understand *how* that scene, as written, would be motivating.

Being condescending isn’t going to convince me. I don’t know, do you think
that the relationship at the end doesn’t work without that scene?

486. Anthony Pascale - April 12, 2011

i think some people are getting too worked up here. Remember these polls are not scientific. We are polling readers who chose to participate in the poll. While poll voters are a much larger group than site commenters, they are still a minority of all visitors. Probably a good cross section of Trek fans who use the internet, but cant be sure.

And most polls show that there are a spectrum of views, and the same is true with all the polls we have done on Shatner and I think we have probably already done too many.

487. Jack - April 12, 2011

483. Heh. That’s a swell idea. Way better than these:

A Trek version of the notebook: Shat to Nimoy “Spock, tell me that story again…”

The Newhart ending: Old Kirk waking up and turning over to tell Spock about his crazy dream.

Sigh. 486. It’s amazing how worked up some of us (me) can get over this.

488. captain_neill - April 12, 2011

474

No just making an obvious comment on something that I dislike.

486

You in favour of Shatner in the next movie yourself?

489. captain_neill - April 12, 2011

Shatner had a great performance in Star Trek VI I thought.

I thought there would be more love for the originator of Kirk.

490. LoneStranger - April 12, 2011

Holographic recording from one of the classes taught or seminars given at the Academy. No need to do anti-aging. No need for any time travel rehash. Maybe something sent to him from Spock to help in a low moment for Alternate Kirk.

491. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

481. MJ – April 12, 2011

Naaah, you’re making the mistake of considering the multiple choice yes options as separate issues when in fact they are the same issue with a different option for how the issue is addressed. There’s a preference for how William Shatner should appear which you then take to mean, for example, William Shatner YES — IF it’s a role like Nimoy’s and NO if it’s not, which you can’t do. It’s not posed as a conditional. Fact remains that every poll, whatever the options, show a clear preference for his appearance in some form over his non appearance in any form.

So you are hanging by an unraveling thread my man.

And William Shatner was kings in TUC. Yeah, TFF stunk up the theater, but TUC was a great ending to the movies. I’ve got nothing bad to say about his performance in that film.

485: “Being condescending isn’t going to convince me. I don’t know, do you think that the relationship at the end doesn’t work without that scene?”

No, I’m not saying that, Jack. I love the movie. After I read that scene and had the two to compare to each other, that’s when I realized there was something special the unfilmed scene had that the one they shot did not have. Not just William Shatner but the function he plays in closing the circle and making the crew “whole” again, even if only as a memory in a trinket that Spock Prime carries with him. So yes, the movie works without it, but I think it would work even better with it.

492. Keachick - April 12, 2011

#Ian Fee – The way the story of this alternate universe has been told means that there is not a way for prime Spock to return to his original universe. You never know, though, what the LOK team might have up their sleeves, although I have read that Bob Orci is not keen to write any more time travel sequences.

#490 Would it not be more natural/organic for the young alt. Kirk to have an older male family member (Uncle Peter Kirk) to perhaps provide some support to a nephew he has spent a little time with on a few occasions when Jim Kirk was younger? (Current social commentary on how split up some families can be, because of the demands of work and own (nuclear) family/friends, living in different states, even different countries, families having falling outs and holding grudges, divorce, deaths, etc?)

Oh well, my favourite idea at the moment…William Shatner, could you do it – be a Kirk, but not James T Kirk because Chris Pine is playing the alternate (captain) James Tiberius Kirk? Prove that you still have what it takes to pull off a fine performance, along with Chris Pine, that allows the Kirk family to shine!

493. Jonboc - April 12, 2011

“After I read that scene and had the two to compare to each other, that’s when I realized there was something special the unfilmed scene had that the one they shot did not have. Not just William Shatner but the function he plays in closing the circle and making the crew “whole” again, even if only as a memory in a trinket that Spock Prime carries with him. So yes, the movie works without it, but I think it would work even better with it.”

absolutely.

494. denny cranium - April 12, 2011

@489- I don’t think anyone doesn’t like or love Shatner. I personally admire him on many levels.
Its just that Shat’s time as Captain is OVER.
In my opinion he would try to be the STAR of the movie and that wouldn’t be right.
I don’t think JJ and crew should have to put up with that from Shatner.
Chris Pine shouldnt have to put up with him either.
That scene they wrote for Bill at the end of Trek 09 was incredible.
Shatner would never have agreed to do just a cameo.
Mr Shatners contribution to Trek has been incalculable. Trying to get in for one more movie is unnecessary. His reputation is secure. Let it go Bill

495. Jack - April 12, 2011

491. “….Not just William Shatner but the function he plays in closing the circle and making the crew “whole” again, even if only as a memory in a trinket that Spock Prime carries with him….”

Yeah. Well put. I hadn’t really thought of that symbolism.

496. MJ - April 12, 2011

@491. “Naaah, you’re making the mistake of considering the multiple choice yes options as separate issues when in fact they are the same issue with a different option for how the issue is addressed.”

No, you are making the mistake of not considering these questions as separate issues. That is the point of the question design with the survey — it leads the user into picking a role for Shat instead of addressing of addressing the question of Yes/No for Shat’s involvement. It is Survey Instrument Design 101 my friend, and you just got a “D” in the course…would have give you an F, but since you are trying so hard I am giving you extra credit.

497. MJ - April 12, 2011

@489. “I thought there would be more love for the originator of Kirk.”

You mean like the love shown by all the members of the original cast (sans Nimoy) towards his asinine treatment of them over the last 45 years?

498. MJ - April 12, 2011

@495. “Not just William Shatner but the function he plays in closing the circle and making the crew “whole” again, even if only as a memory in a trinket that Spock Prime carries with him….”

OK, I guess I could see including this scene in a future “Directors Cut” DVD release. But would the Shat take say $100K to film a quick scene like this for a DVD…I rather doubt it. So it is probably a moot point. I certainly don’t see a market materializing for a full release of the movie with this scene added — that wouldn’t generate much excitement.

That being said, I do not see this as working in the next movie — you’d have to either bring Nimoy back or have some contrived scene where he gets the memory crystal another way. No, I don’t think we need another rehash of the old crew in the next movie…they are to have their own new voyages now.

499. MJ - April 12, 2011

In my opinion, Shat mailed in the Kirk performance on Trek 6. I found him overly-restrained for the most part, contrasted with “faky” emotional outbursts about hating the Klingons. He was never the same actor playing Kirk after the Trek V debacle.

So for my part, I haven’t seen a great James T. Kirk performance from Shatner since Star Trek 4, a quarter of a century ago.

500. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

496: “No, you are making the mistake of not considering these questions as separate issues. That is the point of the question design with the survey — it leads the user into picking a role for Shat instead of addressing of addressing the question of Yes/No for Shat’s involvement. It is Survey Instrument Design 101 my friend, and you just got a “D” in the course…would have give you an F, but since you are trying so hard I am giving you extra credit.”

I’m afraid you are confused about what the issue is, MJ, which is not how to design a survey. The YES/NO for Shatner’s involvement is an abstract issue that must be settled FIRST before you can be led to select a particular role for him. So the abstract question of Shatner’s involvement is implicitly subsumed by the options given. The abstract Y/N question is settled every time a particular role is selected. The fact that it isn’t addressed SIMPLY by a yes or no answer does not mean it is not addressed AT ALL.

So, with all due respect to Survey Instrument Design 101, they may want to revise their texts after consulting their friendly neighborhood logician.

“No, you are making the mistake of not considering these questions as separate issues.”

Because they are not. There are merely separate options for a single issue. The reason you think they are separate issues is for the reason I stated. You think they are conditional, i.e., that each one is a vote yes under those conditions only and a no for any other condition.

But the most recent poll is not even a question about WHETHER he should be put in, but HOW. And there again the question THAT he be put in is settled before fans express their opinion about HOW it should be done.

But you think each option is either or. That either Kirk appears as Kirk resurrected Kirk Prime, as one option has it, OR not at all. But that’s not the case. I have my preference too, but so long as he would be fit in naturally AND it would work, then I, like others, would accept his role — provided it is well done, even if it isn’t the option I prefer.

I am also against Shatner’s involvement categorically if it is not well conceived.

And the fact that Anthony comes up with these off the wall YES options every time he does a poll on the subject and the majority are STILL pro Shatner however different the options are and in almost the same percentages, demonstrates that the sentiment is remaining consistent over time and that most fans just want to see the man in the movie. If you create a simple yes or no category answer, for instance, everybody who votes yes is STILL going to be voting for whatever scenario they have in their head about the best way to get him in even if that option isn’t represented. That isn’t going to go away just because you make it a Y/N question.

lol. I mean, it’s not as if the question were Shatner in the movie yes or no and the majority chose YES that that would mean they also agreed on precisely how to get him in the movie or what his role should be. Balderdash! Everyone would still have their own ideas, yet still be in agreement on that hypothetical poll as they are now THAT he should be in it first, with a breakdown in differing opinions about how best to get him in second.

All yes option votes are votes to put Shatner in the movie. Imagine what you would have to say to disagree with that proposition:

1. I voted yes to resurrect Shatner as Kirk Prime, BUT I did not vote to put him in the movie.

2. I voted yes to make Shatner a recording of Kirk Prime, BUT I did not vote to put him in the movie.

3. I voted yes to make Shatner an aged alt. timeline Kirk in the sequel, BUT I did not vote to put him in the movie.

I haven’t heard logic like that since…wait a second…are you John McCAIN???

Fess up.

501. Jack - April 12, 2011

I still think the holoscene as written would have confused non-Trekkies, or have gotten guffaws, and slowed things down, but I do think it was a nice idea that didn’t naturally fit into the story. I still like that they became whole on their own. If it had been there, even if it hadn’t worked, and Shatner had also done the “these are the voyages” monologue, I still would have been in geeky joy. Heck, I was in denial of some of the goofy points in the story because my inner 14-year-old was so happy.

But, alas, we’ll likely never know. Maybe Shat will give a dramatic reading of the scene in a youtube video, or on his site, to show fans and JJ that, yep, “I’m Captain Kirk!”

I’ve I were a pro-holo guy, 490′s idea of a holo of an academy lesson by Kirk senior some time before his death 17 years ago (I guess Spock had his iPod full of Kirk’s greatest hits) is intriguing (even as a voiceover while other action goes on). If I were a pro-holo guy.

Interesting to note that, according to Shatner, Nimoy couldn’t stand him for years.

502. Jack - April 12, 2011

If I were a pro-holo guy…

503. MJ - April 12, 2011

@500. Sheesh, I have to respond to that 5-page treatise….quanity over substance….DM, have you been taking posting lessons from Keachick?

Nice try, but again, you are making the mistake of not considering these questions as separate issues. That is the point of the question design with the survey — it leads the user into picking a role for Shat instead of addressing of addressing the question of Yes/No for Shat’s involvement.

Why do you think Anthony’s earlier survey showed that 60% either didn’t want or didn’t care to have Shat in the movie….do you really believe that all of a sudden that number has dropped in half…come on dude, give it up, it’s OK to bail now and I promise I won’t remind you of it in the future.

:-)

504. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

503. MJ – April 12, 2011

lol! Sorry bro, logic trumps Surveys 101. ;-)

You might as well try to get me to say there’s 5 lights instead of 4, or that Lost in Space is the best SF series ever made. The logic is just too binding.

Options a, b, c, or d put Shatner in the sequel.
I voted option a, b, c, or d.
Therefore, I voted put Shatner in the sequel.

505. MJ - April 12, 2011

Ah ha,

Some of you are not going to like this — I found and indpendendent (from this web site) poll from 2007 about whether Shat should be in the new movie, and it it tracking at a dead heat — nearly 50/50 of pro and against. If you were assume that now these numbers for no-shat would have increased some going into the second film (i.e, since the original cast handover was completed with Nimoy in Trek 2009), then upping these figures a bit, you get to the 60% figure that Anthony showed in his poll from last year for “No/Don’t Care about Shat”.

There is it folks — complete VALIDATION of my calculations and survey design lessons here.

506. MJ - April 12, 2011

Here is the link:

http://www.pollsb.com/polls/p3318-william_shatner_mad_cast_upcoming_star_trek_film#results

507. Jack - April 12, 2011

So why not a new poll to settle the darned thing… until the next poll in 3 weeks

508. MJ - April 12, 2011

@504 “You might as well try to get me to say….that Lost in Space is the best SF series ever made.”

Good example. If you worded the poll question as:

Which sf show is the best of all time:

1. Lost in Space Season 1
2. Lost in Space Season 2
3. Lost in Space Season 3
4. Lost in Space Season 4
5. Lost in Space — the Movie
6. Not Lost in Space

Survey design results tell us over and over that people will pick more selections in categories 1-5 then the would for a question written as:

Is Lost in Space the best sf show of all time:

1. Yes
2. No

If you don’t believe me, then you really do need to pick up a survey design textbook. This involves the way humans respond to survey questions and is due as more to perception and the way or brains work than to empirical logic.

509. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

505. & 506 MJ – April 12, 2011

LOL!

507: “So why not a new poll to settle the darned thing… until the next poll in 3 weeks”

It’s all in good fun. It’s a nice reprieve to do silly stuff when there’s so much seriousness going on elsewhere.

510. MJ - April 12, 2011

@509. AGREED, the most important thing is that we are having fun!!!!!

511. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

508: “Survey design results tell us over and over that people will pick more selections in categories 1-5 then the would for a question written as:”

I’m sure that’s true. I trust you on that, MJ. It’s just not relevant to the argument I am making.

Even the poll you linked to still shows a majority taking Shatner’s side, although the sample is much much smaller and the difference is much closer.

But it isn’t even a poll on the question of whether he should be in it. The title is:

“William Shatner mad for not being cast in the upcoming Star Trek film,” and then votes siding with or against him, which is not even the same question.

512. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

510: “@509. AGREED, the most important thing is that we are having fun!!!!!”

At the same time I’m posting here I’m taking breaks from more worrisome stuff I’m also working on.

513. Charla - April 12, 2011

Ok my mind has cleared some after the Vulcan Brandy, and my computer is cooperating with me at the moment, allowing me to respond to the comments above.

Now let me state this with my head and not my heart… (I do the latter often and is why I wouldn’t be a good movie/business person)

MJ- that is a great idea!! ROFL when I read your idea of Grandpa Tiberius and his domestic partner… that would kill 2 birds with 1 stone that has been addressed in these forums!

Jack- I didn’t mean to make you feel like a d***, but thank you for being open to looking at the topic of Shat back in another perspective. :)

Keachick- You have an excellent point of Chris Pine doing such a great job as Kirk. It might make me feel a little put off to have someone who has ran the race, come back and not allow me the chance to shine. Having Shatner in a larger role could be misread as a lack of confidence in our newer Captain, I suppose too.

And Thomas- you are correct in asking to what end do we keep requesting seeing the original cast in the series- it is quite the gamble. I wish that the original actors could see your post. It is to the point but respectful at the same time. If I were any of the “old” cast, I would understand, and be thrilled that the franchise is going again, no holds barred!!

My son said maybe put Shat in the background like Stan Lee does himself in his movies. LOL I haven’t watched many of his movies other than Spiderman-

But at the end of the day, we all want what is going to keep Trek around for another 50 yrs- (close enough nit-pickers) and it is headed that way on it’s own and a with fantastic new crew (on both sides of the screen, too-)

So I rescind my vote to… No Shat. (yeah I know it really doesn’t count) but I had voted “No Shat” once before here on this site, but was influenced by the article this time. No more pulling at the heart strings ok, Anthony!!! Not fair!! :)

514. MJ - April 12, 2011

@513. “So I rescind my vote to… No Shat. (yeah I know it really doesn’t count) but I had voted “No Shat” once before here on this site, but was influenced by the article this time. No more pulling at the heart strings ok, Anthony!!! Not fair!! :)”

Glad to bring you back from the dark side, Charla. First Keachick, now you…our clout is growing and minds are being moved here on these boards the forces of logic, common sense.

William Shatner — we love you and we hope you make gobs of money in your later years, but we do insist that your retirement from Trek is maintained. You started Captain Kirk and kept him going for over 25 years, and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Enjoy your retirement from Trek and partake in the celebration of Chris Pine continuing in the great role of James T. Kirk. Shat, here is my song for you — don’t look back, my friend:

“Don’t look back, a new day is breakin
It’s been too long since I felt this way
I don’t mind where I get taken
The road is callin, today is the day

I can see, it took so long just to realize
I’m much too strong not to compromise
Now I see what I am is holding me down
I’ll turn it around

I finally see the dawn arrivin
I see beyond the road I’m drivin

It’s a bright horizon and I’m awaken
I see myself in a brand new way
The sun is shinin, the clouds are breakin
Cause I can’t lose now, there’s no game to play

I can tell there’s no more time left to criticize
I’ve seen what I could not recognize
Everything in my life was leading me on,
But I can be strong

I finally see the dawn arrivin
I see beyond the road I’m drivin

Don’t look back, a new day is breakin
It’s been so long since I felt this way.”

515. Jack - April 12, 2011

hey, the enterprise needs a new computer voice…

513. No worries, it’s a pretty regular occurrence for me, making a dick of myself. ;)

And I agree about the heart strings, it seemed like the guy (Shatner) was being serious for once, well, for part of it.

Anyone else hear that A.C. Crispin told Trek.com she didn’t like the last flick?

516. MJ - April 12, 2011

@515 “Anyone else hear that A.C. Crispin told Trek.com she didn’t like the last flick?”

I saw that on Trekweb. Interesting that she took potshots at the movie given she wrote a star trek novel with Spock in love with a human (and fathering a son, Romulans trying to destroy the Federation, and time travel. The word “hypocrite” came to my mind when reading her comments.

517. dmduncan - April 12, 2011

515. Jack – April 12, 2011

hey, the enterprise needs a new computer voice…

***
How about Alex Jones?

518. Jack - April 12, 2011

Not Shatner? ;).

519. MJ - April 12, 2011

@517 @518

I think have solved the problem — Shat can be the new computer voice.

Problem solved! Next?

520. Scotty - April 12, 2011

Bring Him Back!!!!!!

521. Harry Ballz - April 12, 2011

You want Shat in the next movie? Easy! Show Pine-Kirk laying in his bunk having nightmares, a residual effect from the mind-meld with Spock Prime. It doesn’t affect him when awake, only asleep. Show a vivid dream/nightmare where old Kirk and Spock are talking. By it being in a dream, it can have a murky visual look to it that could easily hide making Shatner look younger (to around the ST:VI era). The content can be whatever the writers want, only heartfelt. There! A minor subplot that doesn’t take way from the main story! Or, it could be tied in to him having the dream/nightmare because of what’s threatening them in the main plot.

p.s. the humourous side of my imagination would like to see Pine-Kirk being horrified by the look of old Kirk’s phony hairline, only to awake and the first thing he does, instinctively, is reach up and touch his own REAL head of hair and sigh in relief!

522. Jack - April 12, 2011

519. man, you should write this thing. ;)

521. That would only be better if they were jello wrestling in the dream. The hair check = gold. What about lifting up his shirt to make sure he’s not wearing Spanx? I keed.

523. Keachick - April 13, 2011

#521 That could work…LOL

524. Hermioni - April 13, 2011

@#521 Harry Ballz – April 12, 2011

A variety of personal (and other) reasons has turned the act of reading through this particular thread into anything but a pleasant experience for me.
However, your light-hearted, and may I ad, clever and elegant solution to the conundrum at hand, certainly managed to lighten my mood considerably. :-)) .

525. Damian - April 13, 2011

If you really want to say good-bye to Shatner, just watch Star Trek VI. The end of that movie was the best possible send off for the original crew. I don’t think you can improve on that.

526. Damian - April 13, 2011

454–No, some threads have gone well over a 1000. No record breaker yet.

527. Damian - April 13, 2011

Let me be clear. I mean no disrespect to William Shatner. No I did not like his style of acting for Star Trek V, VI or Generations. I truly felt he did not take the role seriously anymore. However, up until Star Trek IV, I thought his style worked for Captain Kirk.

His current style of acting works well for the shows he does now. I am convinced his portrayal of Captain Kirk would be more similar to Denny Craine then it would be to Kirk circa 1966 to 1986. His physical appearance is not an issue for me, it’s simply his current choice of acting style.

I am much more interested in what the next movie holds for us story wise with the new cast, who I felt did an excellent job, then some ham-handed attempt to platoon Shatner into the next movie just for one last attempt to say good-bye, something that was very well done already in Star Trek VI.

And again, as a fan of TNG, DS9, Voy and Enterprise, I said good-bye to the original cast a very long time ago.

528. Cervantes - April 13, 2011

Good to see that there seems to be about 70% who polled, that would like to see Shatner back onboard this franchise in some capacity. On 30% are naysayers, and they are welcome to their view. However, they are vastly outnumbered it seems by those that don’t agree with them.

Time will tell if J.J. will be amongst the minority, or not…

529. Cervantes - April 13, 2011

Typo should have said ‘Only 30%…’ by the way.

530. I, Mugsy - April 13, 2011

@M

“@443 ““Aren’t you dead?” with a lifted eyebrow – I bet there wouldn’t be a dry eye in the house :) It would be a LEGENDARY Trek moment!”

You’d be crying, most everyone else would be cringing or laughing. Give me a break! This would be just AWFUL!!! It is not the 80’s anymore folks — no one outside of a few hardcore Trek sentimentalists wants to reunite a buchn of Trek 80+ year olds for the next movie…ARGH…this is getting fracking ridiculous!!!”

Who the hell are you to tell me to ‘give you a break’?? You don’t like my idea that’s fine – no need to get rude/bent out of shape over it!

MANY want to see Shatner back, not just a ‘few’ sentamentalists as you so crudely put it.

To the rest of you out there who can discuss these things civily, I really think all this desire to see Shatner (and possibly Nimoy too) back in Star Trek can only be done properly with a one-off TV movie. It could be released as a sort of ‘teaser’ to the new film to generate interest, as well as keeping original fans happy and satisfying Shatner’s desire to have Kirk alive again and seen one last time in action. I think shoe-horning him into the sequal film is a bad idea because that new crew really need to stand on their own feet now without a ‘cameo of the week’ type ‘B’ story.

Perhaps we need a new poll – would fans like to see Shatner/Kirk in a dedicated one-off Trek TV movie? (and TV movie doesn’t have to mean cheap looking anymore – much TV work is now eclipsing the quality both in terms of story, acting and FX one gets in films). I think a 2-part TV movie would allow the writer(s) time to properly flesh out a decent way of 1) bringing Kirk-prime back in a believable way and 2) giving him a decent send off (without killing him off again!) so any future stories can be left to the imagination, knowing that Kirk the character is alive again (did he ever die?…As I said many posts above I don’t believe the Nexus Kirk was ‘our’ Kirk at all).

Leave the new crew to get on with doing their own thing without any firther cameos.

531. Cervantes - April 13, 2011

By the way, I’d even settle for something along Harry Ballz solution in post 521 at this point…if Shatner was up for a mere ‘cameo’ appearance.

Anything to remove the bitter taste of Picard just sticking a few rocks on Kirk after his demise. Why didn’t Picard (or the writers at the time) think that he shouldn’t at least be transported back to Earth…a planet he’d SAVED…to be given a proper Starfleet send-off with full honours??

Still, at least there’s the ‘Kirkless Generations’ fanedit by Boon that can be searched out, that just leaves the ‘Next Gen’ captain and his crew to it on their own, where Soren is concerned…and Kirk and co. can just be imagined to have ‘signed off’ nicely at the end of the ‘Undiscovered Country’. And the ‘Next Gen’ stuff can just be imagined to be merely the future of an ‘alternate timelime’ if you want! ;)

532. Cervantes - April 13, 2011

Here you go – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-pzjqhnJAc

533. Damian - April 13, 2011

530–I don’t think Paramount will spring for a separate movie just for Shatner and Nimoy (besides, Nimoy has said in no uncertain terms he is done with Star Trek, I truly do not believe he can be talked back anymore). They are 100% behind the new Abrams vision and are not going to muddy the waters with another Trek production. CBS seems absolutely not interested in any TV productions for the forseeable future.

I also think Shatner wants to be in the sequel. This goes back to his ego. The next film will likely be another summer blockbuster, and he wants to be part of it, not some one-off film that mainly Trekkies are going to see. He doesn’t want to just portray Captain Kirk one more time. He wants to have an important role in what is expected to be popular movie.

I still have to wonder why he did Generations. He agreed to have Captain Kirk die. He had to know that meant there would be no more Captain Kirk for him to play. If he was not sure he wanted to end his association with Star Trek, he probably should not have agreed to do it int he first place. (Of course you could say the same about Nimoy after Star Trek II, but his character was an alien-a little easier to work in a return from the dead, and they spent a whole movie to bring him back–do we really want Abrams to spend a whole movie to bring back Shatner. Nimoy was actually only in III the last few minutes, so we’d actually have to spend a movie to resurrect Shatner, then have him in the following sequel).

534. MJ - April 13, 2011

Does anyone know who “M” is in post #530? It looks like with the opening quote that he was responding to post #443, which is his own post.

Hey, I’ve been known to mumble to myself at times, so no big deal.

535. MJ - April 13, 2011

@527 “Let me be clear. I mean no disrespect to William Shatner. No I did not like his style of acting for Star Trek V, VI or Generations. I truly felt he did not take the role seriously anymore. However, up until Star Trek IV, I thought his style worked for Captain Kirk. His current style of acting works well for the shows he does now. I am convinced his portrayal of Captain Kirk would be more similar to Denny Craine then it would be to Kirk circa 1966 to 1986….”

Well said!

536. Damian - April 13, 2011

534–I think he was directing it at you and forgot the J.

I think he was responding to your post responding to his that may have been responding to one of your previous post (got all that).

537. MJ - April 13, 2011

@531. (sigh!) Anthony’s earlier survey showed that 60% either didn’t want or didn’t care to have Shat in the movie, and and independent poll on another web site from 2007 showed that is was 50/50 in terms of respondents even wanting Shat in the first movie, let alone the second movie. The survey is this article was poorly constructed and is not a no-shat/shat survey — you can’t add those numbers together. Please see my posts above for a tutorial on why you can’t do this.

538. MJ - April 13, 2011

@536. Ah, well he labeled me incorrectly and then started by responding to his own post…an auspicious start in trying to respond if I must say. :-)

In the morning, I make it a practice to not have Irish Coffees — no alcohol until 1 PM is my firm rule! :-)

539. Damian - April 13, 2011

535–I have to agree with you re: 443 though. I understand what I, Mugsy is getting at. The problem is that, put simply, I don’t believe Nimoy is coming back at any price. He made it clear he was in this movie because of 2 reasons. He liked the script for his role, and he agreed that it was appropriate to have a hand off from the prime universe. He is not going to do a Star Trek film just to have a touchy-feely moment with Shatner. I don’t see how they can incorporate any scene with Shatner that does not cause a major disruption to the story they want to tell unless Shatner’s return is the center of the story. Therein lies my major objection to Shatner’s presence, more than any other.

540. Damian - April 13, 2011

Anyway, I think it’s time to bow out of this particular thread. I’m starting to find I am repeating things I already noted. I guess some of us have to agree to disagree on Shatner and leave it up to Orci and the gang (I doubt even he’s reading this thread anymore).

Besides, when Captain Neill and trekprincess stop posting on a thread, you know it’s gone on too long ;)

541. captain_neill - April 13, 2011

540

Very funny

I am trying to be reserved from now on

542. n1701ncc - April 13, 2011

After reading all of these threads I still think the best way to bring Shatner back is a visit to Talos IV with the new crew and Pike and the Pine Kirk gets to meet the Shatner Kirk and they figure out how to defeat the big head dudes, with some other twists thrown in. no time travel just a whole bunch of illusions.

543. Aurore - April 13, 2011

I voted “no” to Mr Shatner in the sequel.

And, absolutely none of the suggestions regarding his inclusion in the sequel convinced me that his presence in the next Star Trek wouldn’t be a major “distraction”.

Nevertheless, if he ends up being in the movie, I certainly hope that he puts on an outstanding performance, which will make me (secretly) thank all the posters who insisted on his involvement in Star Trek: The Vulcan Pact, or Star Trek : The Vulcan Path, or Star Trek : Shattered Kings or…Star Trek : Dawn of a New Age.

:)

544. s1977spw - April 13, 2011

one way to bring back kirk would be to completely ignore star trek generations the line of next gen films were crap anyways other movies like highlander and universal solider have ignored previous films why not star trek?

545. MJ - April 13, 2011

@540. Agreed, time to move on from this thread. We have done good work here — I note that several people changed their minds to the no-Shat position, while I don’t recall anyone changing their minds to the pro-Shat position. Hopefully the Shat or his agent is reading some of this and are now convinced that the Shat really does need to move on.

546. Phil - April 13, 2011

Really dosen’t matter what the poll says. Asides from Shat, we have not had anything from current management suggesting Shat will be involved. Considering what little has been said, it’s a good bet it won’t happen.

547. Phil - April 13, 2011

Oh, and propers to a real spaceman – cheers, Yuri!

548. Keachick - April 13, 2011

Chris Pine now plays Captain James T Kirk. William Shatner does not. He allowed his Captain Kirk to die in Generations. Nobody here asked him to do that. I certainly did not.

My answer “Yes” to having William Shatner back in the sequel is CONDITIONAL upon him being willing to play a minor character (a Pine/Kirk relative?) in a couple of short scenes; or doing some voice-over (he has a great speaking voice). It is also CONDITIONAL upon whether the writers can write a good scene that fits naturally in with the overall story they have already done.

If these conditions cannot be fulfilled, then it is “No” to William Shatner. Chris Pine needs to be allowed to stand on his own two feet as the alternate universe one and only Captain James T Kirk! It appears the other new cast are being allowed to do that with their characters – then why not Chris Pine?!

549. Buxley - April 13, 2011

You know, there’s something I want to say. Having watched Shatner’s performances over the years, I’d just like to say… GET A LIFE, will you Bill? I mean, for crying out loud, it’s just a TV show! I mean, look at you! You’ve turned an enjoyable little job, that you did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WHINE FEST!

There’s a whole world out there! You don’t have to be Kirk anymore! So GROW THE HELL UP! I mean, it’s just a TV show dammit, IT’S JUST A TV SHOW!

Kirk’s dead. Move on….

550. Damian - April 13, 2011

541–Sorry Captain. Didn’t mean to pick on you (or the princess). I just felt when you dropped off, maybe I was starting to beat a dead horse here.

Generally, you and I are on the same page when it comes to the spinoffs. But reserved is probably the way to go. Get in less trouble that way. I’ll have to remember in the future not to repeat my own points as much too.

Anyway, I really, really, truly am done on this thread.

551. Harry Ballz - April 13, 2011

522-24.

Thanks, guys! :>)

552. Cervantes - April 13, 2011

@ #537

*sigh* While I would like to see Shatner’s inclusion in this rebooted franchise finally, it’s obvious you would not, MJ…so we are not going to agree on this issue.

However, as someone once famously said here – ‘You’re welcome to your own opinions, but not to your own facts’. And the fact remains that despite whatever way you chose to interpret the statistics…out of over 3000 votes on the current poll, only 29% chose the ‘No Shatner’ category at the time I commented on it. Whereas the remaining bulk of the voters chose a catagory that meant they DID want to see him included in some way or other…and that’s a fact.

I’m sorry if this displeased you, but it’s looking like you’re likely to get your wish at the end of the day, regardless.

553. Harry Ballz - April 13, 2011

552.

No Shat, Sherlock!

554. Phil - April 13, 2011

552. Cervantes – April 13, 2011
Good. If a poll here said that 70% of people thought that jumping off a cliff was a good idea, it would not make them right. Putting Shatner in the next movie is a bad idea, regardless of the poll. Sorry…..

555. MJ - April 13, 2011

@552. I’m sorry that the “No Shat” category was the highest vote-getter of any of the different options provided. You can’t really put a spin on that. “No Shat” prevailed demonstratively.

556. Admiral_Bumblebee - April 13, 2011

554. Phil
So your opinion is the only one that matters and is right? Wow, you should make all decisions in the world all by yourself, man, if everything you say is the one and only true opinion… I bow before you…

557. s1977spw - April 14, 2011

to be honest the ignoring star trek generations idea should have been done with the first one …..but i suppose it was spocks turn to hand over the baton after being left out the next generation movies. i changed my mind no shatner the focus needs to be on the new crew and not a member of a old one

558. MJ - April 14, 2011

“Admrial? Admiral Bumblebee?” Admiral Bumble never bothered to check on our progress.”

“BUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBB……BUUUMMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBB”

559. Cervantes - April 14, 2011

@ #555

One last try at this – While you are correct that the ‘No Shatner’ category garnered the highest vote for a particular SINGLE category choice…that does NOT outweigh the fact that 70% happened to spread their votes over several other potential categories in this particular poll.

All it suggests is that the 70% have DIFFERENT preferrences about how Shatner could be included. But that overwhelming 70% certainly didn’t choose the ‘No Shatner’ option in this particular vote.

No spin needed.

560. Phil - April 14, 2011

@556. A bad idea is a bad idea, I don’t care how many people support it. Have a great day….

561. lostrod - April 14, 2011

Actually, it’s some of the “No Shat” folks that should consider moving on. The constant weight insults that keep getting repeated over and over and over are getting quite ripe.

I am amazed at the number of folks who are gifted with ESP in this discussion since they seem to know what Mr. Shatner “thinks”, “feels”, “believes” and “wants”.

All of those are internal to an individual. So unless you can actually mind meld or read minds – no one knows those except for Mr. Shatner.

I am currently deployed with the military so I don’t have as much time as I would like to surf the web. I pop into this site as often as possible to pick up some news and try not to get pulled into a long discussion.

I really enjoy this site, but only wish that some folks would spend more time discussing the topic rather than resorting to personal insults.

Regards

562. MJ - April 14, 2011

@560. “I am amazed at the number of folks who are gifted with ESP in this discussion since they seem to know what Mr. Shatner “thinks”, “feels”, “believes” and “wants”.

Thanks, it is truly a rare gift that I have. :-)

“I am currently deployed with the military…”

In all seriousness, thanks for your service — much appreciated!

563. MJ - April 14, 2011

@558 / Cervantes

Based on your post, I suggest you review the famous quote from your namesake, as it fits perfectly you misperceiving the poll results:

“Pray look better, Sir… those things yonder are no giants, but windmills.”

564. Aashlee - April 14, 2011

How would bringing back William Shatner tie in with the mission of “exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life and new civilizations…”?

We don’t need to go where we have gone before.

Spock Prime did a nice send-off, and we should honor that. “Old Home Week” is over. The younger versions of the TOS crew have embarked. We must quit wallowing in the past. It’s time to let our fledgling crew fly away from the nest and grow on their own.

If we can’t make that break, then this franchise will stagnate.

565. Aurore - April 14, 2011

Well said Aashlee.

566. Phil - April 14, 2011

okay, this thread is about to drop off the front page. Hopefully, to die the slow painful death it deserves.

On to the yes/no poll!!

567. Allenburch - April 14, 2011

ok … not sure of the offense but I really hope Shatner is back well and good for ST12.

568. Allenburch - April 14, 2011

The thought of Bill Shatner being in the next Star Trek was cool in 2007…and it is WAY MORE COOL here in 2011.

Shatner in Star Trek 2012 would be one of the biggest movie highlights, if not THE HIGHLIGHT of the year.

Shatner in ST12 as a recording of Kirk Prime would be easy. Shatner in ST12 as future/aged Alt. Timeline Kirk would be awesome. (Make him evil. Who needs Khan when you can have a Mirror Kirk.) Shatner in ST12 as resurrected Kirk Prime is the tough one, but not as tough as everyone is writer-blocking it to be! (There are already several non-canon ways showing how Kirk Prime is back.)

What about an 80 year-old non-resurrected Kirk Prime?

Part of the lesson in ST09 is the importance of friendship and being a team player. Young Kirk was challenged by Spock Prime to find a way to unite the crew under his command. Spock gave him a glimpse of many things through that mind meld, including the close friendship between Spock Prime and Kirk.

Kirk Prime and crew defied Starfleet risking EVERYTHING at the thought of a far-fetched notion regarding a katra for the seemingly impossibility of gaining their friend, Spock, back from the dead. How would Spock react if he had become aware of even the most slightest of possibilities that his friend, Kirk, could be rescued after all……? (you know the answer)

I know you’re laughing but here are the clues:
———-
2293 – Kirk Prime Orbital Skydive
Chekhov: Captain, perhaps you have forgotten, but tomorrow…we are to smile for the holographic recorders…the christening ceremony.
Kirk Prime: Oh, I’m not going. Help me out with this shoulder strap.
Scotty: What do you mean you’re not going, we promised.
Kirk Prime: When I retired from Starfleet, I swore I’d never step foot into another starship again…and I meant it.
Chekhov: Captain…
Kirk Prime: I don’t want to hear any more about it. I’m not going. That’s final.

(The next day on the bridge.)
Kirk: Scotty…keep things together till I get back.
Scotty: I always do.

———-
2348 – Star Trek Nemesis
Shinzon was created using genetic material from Captain Picard and initially raised and trained for a mission to replace Picard as part of a Romulan program of clandestine infiltration of the Federation. Shinzon was genetically altered to be triggered to age rapidly once he’d reached his early thirties, skipping three decades of his life so as to resemble his progenitor more closely. Early in life, he was diagnosed with a rare Human disease that Picard had also suffered as a child.

———-
Early 2360s – Star Trek Nemesis
A new faction achieved prominence in the Romulan Imperial Senate. The faction terminated the Federation infiltration program, and the young Shinzon was exiled to the dilithium mines of Remus.

———-
2368 – TNG Unification Part 2
Spock: What are you doing on Romulas?
Picard: That was to have been my question of you sir.
Spock: It is no concern of Starfleet.
Picard: On the contrary it is very much Starfleet’s concern. You’re in a position to compromise the security of the Federation.
Spock: You may assure your superiors, Captain, that I am here on a personal mission of peace and I will advise Starfleet when it is appropriate.
Picard: That is not satisfactory.
Spock: You cannot remain here Captain Picard.
Picard: And I will not return without a full explanation. Ambassador…with great respect for all that you have achieved on behalf of the Federation … this sort of cowboy diplomacy will not easily be tolerated anymore.
Spock: Cowboy diplomacy.
Picard: If you wish to undertake a mission with obvious repercussions for the Federation, then you should discuss it with the Federation. I’m here as their representative. You’ll have to discuss it with me.
Spock: That is precisely what I had hoped to avoid.

———-
2371 – Star Trek Generations
Guinan: I can’t leave. I’m there already, remember? But I bet I know someone who can…and from his point of view, he just got here to.
(A few moments later.)
Kirk: I must have jumped that 50 times. Scared the —- out of me each time, except this time, because it isn’t real.
Picard: Antonia.
Kirk: She isn’t real either is she? Nothing here is. Nothing here matters.

———-
In our science FICTION world, Kirk Prime can be alive and well…it’s only up to us to MAKE IT SO!

The writers didn’t fill in the gap of years between Nero and Spock…They wouldn’t need to fill in all that Spock Prime has done since ST09. (But they could supply context through another cool movie prequel comic book.)

569. Keachick - April 14, 2011

Well, it looks like the percentage of votes for the option of the “future/aged alt timeline Kirk” is catching up to the percentage of “No” votes. This is one of my least preferred options. It is really not unlike the holographic message, except that it goes further and suggests that how Shatner plays an older alt. Kirk would/should be how a Pine/Kirk does it. Now that really is stepping on an actor Chris Pine’s *mana* and Chris Pine does not deserve that. That is just rude! It is worse that the simple holo message scene, that had already been rejected by TPTB four or five years ago.

At least when the TOS episode, The Deadly Years, was made, the actors themselves donned the aging makeup and played their own characters as they imagined they might be in their senior years.

Anyway, for a role like that, surely the best person to play the part of an aged Pine/Kirk would be the actor’s own father, Robert Pine, also an actor. Certainly give it greater authenticity and guess what, both have blue eyes!

570. Keachick - April 14, 2011

On the issue of the way the survey was conducted, I asked my better half about it, and I’m almost afraid to type this, but he agrees with you, MJ! Now, don’t start to get big or light headed, will you…? :)

There should be (have been) two separate polls undertaken – the first one being a simple Yes or No answer to whether people would like to see Shatner in the sequel. A second poll would be about asking people to vote on their preferred option on how they would to see Shatner if he were to be in the next film. If the vote had given a good definitive majority answer of No, then the second poll would not be necessary and all a bit moot.

However, I think the main issue is that people are more or less evenly divided on the whole issue, so whatever minority you have (whether they be the Yays or Nays), you still have a hell of a big minority!

571. MJ - April 14, 2011

@570. Thank You, Keachick.

DM, I told you so!

572. MJ - April 14, 2011

@568 “Shatner in Star Trek 2012 would be one of the biggest movie highlights, if not THE HIGHLIGHT of the year.”

Dude, you really need to get out more…

573. david - April 14, 2011

If he was going to be in the film, it has passed. I may be wrong. They may be able to do something like spoke that is touching but doesn’t hog the movies main line.

574. Keachick - April 15, 2011

I was in a hurry when I wrote post #570 and I see that I have managed to miss out one or two words. I hope it made sense to people anyway…

575. Harry Ballz - April 15, 2011

Keachick, you always make sense to ME! :>)

576. Methos - April 15, 2011

Movie could show Shatner at the beginning of the movie making recording of past event or telling a story to someone, then flash back to current Star Trek crew. It would show him for the first few minutes of the movie and then move on. Problem solved.

577. Phil - April 15, 2011

@576. Hey, that’s a great idea. It could also tie in to Shatners new album, with Kirk singing (or spoken wording) “Just sit right back And you’ll hear a tale A tale of a fateful trip, That started from this tropic port, Aboard this tiny ship…..”

Another legendary Trek moment, I’m tearing up just thinking about it.

Just kidding. Really. Everyone smile now….

578. n1701ncc - April 15, 2011

since shatner is doing cd of rock songs how about the Shat doing some classic tv intros, since he has the # 1 classic TV into of all time.

here are some he can do

Opening to All in The Family …with Nichelle Nichols
Opening song to the Golden Girls
Opening song to Happy Days
Opening song to Laverne and Shriley
Opening song to the Flinstones and the Jetsons…perfect stuff
Are you laughing yet…anybody have any others?

579. Phil - April 15, 2011

hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa

Okay, ..Gillingan’s Island has Grammy written all over it. How about Good Times, The Jeffersons. “Suicide is Painless” is the theme to MASH. People will be jumping off the cliff for that one….
One for comic fans…Spiderman, Spiderman….it’s a natural, people. Feeling it yet!!??!!.

580. Allenburch - April 15, 2011

572. MJ

If Shatner is in the next Star Trek, I guarantee that EVERYONE, (the “getting out” kind and the “don’t go out” kind), will be saying:

Captain Kirk is BACK!

581. Phil - April 15, 2011

@580 Not.

582. dmduncan - April 15, 2011

571. MJ – April 14, 2011

Two people in agreement while being mistaken, still equals being mistaken. If logic were easy and popular, the world would be in much better shape.

Please review #504 until you have that “Aha!” moment of clarity. ;-)

583. Harry Ballz - April 15, 2011

579. Phil “Spiderman, Spiderman….it’s a natural, people. Feeling it yet!!??!!”

You mean as in my lunch coming up? Why, yes, I do!

584. Shatner_Fan_Prime - April 15, 2011

Someone created this image of what Bill would look like he if he wore the TOS hair piece today. Either with or without it, I think he looks great. :-)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7vjDE3ZM2SA/TGGCnkvzuKI/AAAAAAAAANY/PxgD7DBcg3w/s1600/JimKirk.jpg

585. Jack - April 15, 2011

578.

Family Ties
Who’s the Boss
Mr. Belevedere
Growing Pains

“Show… Me… That… smile……. A-gain…”

So Shat playing future Alt Kirk, he’d actually be playing a (for him) brand new character (because Shat’s original Kirk and Pine’s Kirk will have, presumably, quite different experiences, and a different future.) It would be kind of like the two different versions of the same character on Fringe — they seem, so far, to be shaped more by nurture than nature. Could Shat even play an older version of Pine? it might be an acting challenge. But it seems tricky because it would be tough, unless it was just a cameo, not to give away some aspect of Kirk’s future, which could really limit the character down the road. Plus, without time travel, you’re stuck with the deadly years in some form (virus, mutation, transporter accident), or a vision, or an illusiion, or a framing device where future Alt Kirk is recalling the past — didn’t Harrison Ford do that for the Indiana Jones chronicles?

586. Keachick - April 15, 2011

#584 I agree. Very nice indeed.

“Suicide is painless,
It brings on many changes…”

That is so wicked and not really that funny at all. So why am I giggling? I must be tired…

587. MJ - April 15, 2011

@582 DM, all that is left now for me to say to you regarding how this worked out for my argument is:

“Duh…Winning!”

:-) LOL

588. MJ - April 15, 2011

@587. And BTW, Keachick, I was surprised (on my recent trip to NZ) to see that Charlie Sheen’s 2 and a half men show is syndicated nightly there.

589. Keachick - April 16, 2011

Two and a Half Men is on twice a week now. I rarely watch it so I am not aware how often it could be on. As of next week it is on Sunday and Wednesday nights only. Charlie Sheen is overrated and he seems to forget that he only “works” because of the other cast. Often I find the housekeeper can the funniest, but she is not always on the show, as far as I can tell.

Now, MJ, what did I say about getting a “big head”? Hmmm

DM – It is a question of how the data is interpreted and it is perfectly legitimate to interpret the votes the way MJ, myself and my better half do. However, the majority is not always right nor is the minority always wrong, depending on how you interpret which is the majority/minority. That is the problem with this kind of poll. It is ambiguous.

590. dmduncan - April 16, 2011

587. MJ – April 15, 2011

lol.

589: “DM – It is a question of how the data is interpreted and it is perfectly legitimate to interpret the votes the way MJ, myself and my better half do.”

If the syllogism is valid and the premises are true — and they are in both cases, then the conclusion follows, and there’s nothing anybody can do about that except to ignore it.

Logic isn’t a matter of interpretation anymore than mathematics is.

591. Cervantes - April 16, 2011

Bottom line remains the same in THIS particular poll – only the minority of approx. 30% of votes happened to say no to Shatner, no matter who tries to interpret it otherwise.

But at the end of the day, the only one who’s vote counts is J.J.’s…just like it did where his first ‘Trek’ movie was concerned.

Still, he could always arrange to have THIS particular footage tacked onto the end of his sequel, as a ‘look ahead’ into his mixed-up ‘alternate timeline’ instead, to help smooth things over – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_5h0BRO5O4

592. MJ - April 16, 2011

@591

“Is it possible your pragmatical worship should not know that the comparisons made between wit and wit, courage and courage, beauty and beauty, birth and birth, are always odious and ill taken?”

593. MJ - April 16, 2011

@590

“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”

– Fyodor Dostoyevsky

594. dmduncan - April 17, 2011

593. MJ – April 16, 2011

1. Oh, we’re both using logic, bro. Mine is just much better than yours. ;-)

2. Love Dostoyevsky. Read all his books (The Idiot is my fave), including 3 or 4 different translations of The Gambler (all I could find in print). And while it is indeed true that people deny the evidence of the senses, the evidence of the senses in this case is the stark reality of the poll numbers which I clearly affirm by having used it in the premises of a deductive argument which you cannot escape. In other words:

BOOYAH!!!

595. Eric - April 17, 2011

The story itself would be easy to justify. remember that in the 2009 Star Trek movie it was said that by the Romulans traveling back in time and killing Kirk’s father, capturing Spck etc that ALL of their destinies were now changed. Therefore, Kirk would not necessarily have died as he did BEFORE the time travel, future alteration. So it is entirely possible to have Kirk at a much later age (ie, his age now) as opposed to him having to look like he did BEFORE he died in the original movies.

596. MJ - April 17, 2011

@594. OK, I will give Fat Shat and his Padawan, DM Duncan, the last word here. LOL

597. Cervantes - April 18, 2011

And there’s no reason why THIS version couldn’t be valid as a possible eventual ‘alternate timeline’ future to J.J.s reboot too, when it comes right down to it…where Data’s ‘emotion chip’ may be playing up a little… – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvE-CoCMgh

598. Cervantes - April 18, 2011

That had a typo, so here’s the correct link! – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCvE-CoCMhg

599. stirling - April 23, 2011

Here’s an idea. They could do something similiar to what they did in
the Godfather part 2. They movie could go back and forth between
Pine’s Kirk and Shatner Kirk in the future, and you wouldn’t have to
use time travel. Shatner’s Kirk could reflect on decisions or situations
that took place in his youth, with Pine’s Kirk acting it out. Of course,
whatever happens in the past would have to have some relevancy or
major impact on events in the future.

600. Shat as tiberius - April 24, 2011

He should have a Cameo as new Kirks Grandfather Tiberius….that would be cool.

601. John B - April 27, 2011

I don’t know why it has to be generation prime kirk. can’t it simply be an aged chris pine (willy shatner) introduction at the beginning of the movie . you can really add whatever amount of shatner you like in the future and it would have very little impact on the pine kirk. boda boom boda bing.

602. John B - April 27, 2011

sorry I see now that stirling had the same thought process.

603. Q - April 27, 2011

Turn Kirk into a zombie and eat brains and go back into the future via Q and prevent Spock from using the Red Matter therefore preventing Vulcan from ultimately being destroyed rendering all timeline useless.

604. Adam B - April 27, 2011

What about a cloned Kirk from the future. He could have sent back in time by the same bad guys that cloned picard in generations, and the new kirk would have to battle himself. Only now the prime kirk knows everything about what’s going happen and the new kirk has to change the rules of the game to win. I know it involves time travel alittle bit but they can work that in some how.

605. Rob - May 1, 2011

What if the new young kirk were to encounter an alien which turned him into an old geezer , that way kirk could return untill the problem is resolved. Simple !

606. rob bruce - May 4, 2011

HEY Adam B! I hate to sound like a Star Trek Geek; but they didn’t do the cloning of Picard until “Star Trek Nemesis” .

I would like to see not just Kirk ( Shatner), but all of the other surviving cast members incorporated into the new sequel. I am sure J.J. Abrams could find a way to pull it off. The other original characters, and their respective acting counter parts also deserve to be part of this. Over the years they have each become cultural icons in their own right. Miss Nichol”s was the first African-American actress to have a prominent role in a major network show; and all of the others cemented their place in our hearts with their wonderful performances. I think it would be a fitting way to “pass the torch” to the next generation of actors.

607. Glen Lentz - May 5, 2011

Based on age and how he looks (He doesn’t look bad for his age) I think they should bring William Shatner back as a grandfather to Pine’s Kirk. He could play Tiberious Kirk in a scene where Pine’s Kirk goes back to Iowa on shoreleave or something to visit his family before the actual adventure of the movie starts. Tiberious could give young Kirk some deep meaningful advice that could also serve as an underlying message and theme to the rest of the movie. Either way, Four generations (My son being the newest generation) of my family have watched and been inspired by William Shatner and it’d be nice to see him come back to another big screen Star Trek outing one last time.

608. steve - May 7, 2011

I have the perfect idea: Instead of a EMH, starfleet creates a EAH (Emergency, Admiral Kirk, Hologram) Every SF vessel is installed with one and when ever the starship Captain is in over his/her head. Admiral Kirk springs into action. The down side to this is that eventually Star Fleet will have to scrub the program due to star fleet captains relying to heavily on the Kirk Holograms AWESOMENESS! Kirk will live on via holigram

609. Robert Wright - May 7, 2011

Bill still looks youthful enough to bring him back prior to his roll in Generatrions, then send him back to his own time line. Just don’t let Kirk know of his own death and the details so that timeline does not get messed with.

610. Big Joe - May 11, 2011

two simple words…Mirror Kirk. At the end of Mirror Mirror, Mirror Spock tries to change the mirror rorld for th ebtter…unfortunatly, he failed. Mirror Kirk wants to take revenge on Spock and he crosses over to do it. Or have Spock reprise his role as Mirror Spock and bring out the goatee.

TrekMovie.com is represented by Gorilla Nation. Please contact Gorilla Nation for ad rates, packages and general advertising information.