Bob Orci: Shatner Scene Not Included In Star Trek 2009 Because Of “Fan Pandering” + Poll: Was it? | TrekMovie.com
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Bob Orci: Shatner Scene Not Included In Star Trek 2009 Because Of “Fan Pandering” + Poll: Was it? May 1, 2011

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman,Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

shatIn late 2009 TrekMovie exclusively revealed a scene written for William Shatner for JJ Abrams Star Trek movie. In a recent roundtable interview, co-writer Roberto Orci discussed this scene and why JJ Abrams never approved it for the final script. Details below, plus a repost of the scene. We also have a poll asking if you agree that the scene was “fan pandering.”

 

Orci talks Shatner “Star Trek” scene

In a Hollywood Reporter round-table discussion with other screenwriters of Summer movies, Roberto Orci spoke briefly about the Star Trek (2009) scene written for William Shatner:

THR: Do you guys ever write scenes into the script that you know aren’t going to be in the movie?

Orci: We wrote a scene for William Shatner at the end of the movie where Spock, played by Leonard, gives his young self, played by Zach Quinto, something he’d kept with him. And it was basically a recording of Kirk singing “Happy Birthday” to him for the last time before he went off to die in Star Trek VI. J.J. had determined early on that he felt it might seem like it was, a) too small, and b) pandering to the fans a bit. But we wrote it anyway because as a fan you’re always trying to protect that thing where you want to be able to look fans in the eye and say, “We were ready.”

Here is the full (and lengthy) round table discussion with Orci, along with  screenwriters Jonathan Aibel (Kung Fu Panda 2), Greg Berlanti (Green Lantern),  Ehren Kruger (Transformers: Dark of the Moon), Christopher Markus (Captain America: The First Avenger), Ashley Edward Miller (Thor &  X-Men: First Class).

Repost of TrekMovie Exclusive (11/23/2009)

Putting Shatner into "Star Trek"

TrekMovie received the scene below from one of our trusted sources and it has been verified to be the scene written for Shatner (but never shown to Shatner). The “Alternate Scene B” actually creates alternative versions two scenes from the end of the movie: the moment between Spock Prime (Nimoy) and Spock (Quinto) in the hangar, plus the award ceremony with Kirk (Pine), Pike (Greenwood) and the Commandant (Tyler Perry).



Including Shatner would have made alternatives to these ending scenes

Shatner would have played Kirk, but would have appeared as a recording. The timing of the recording is not stated, but would have have been before Star Trek Generations and therefore not violate the canon that Kirk was killed in Generations. JJ Abrams has often noted that dealing with Kirk’s death was one of the hindrances of including him in the new Star Trek.


Shatner in "Star Trek Generations" (1994), his last time in the chair

The Scene
Here it is…

—————————

ALTERNATE SCENE B

SPOCK PRIME
Then I ask that you do yourself a
favor… put away logic, and do what
feels right. The world you’ve inherited
lives in the shadow of incalculable
devastation… but there’s no reason you
must face it alone.

And from around his neck, he removes the PENDANT that
until now, we’ve only caught glimpses of. Places it on
the table beside his younger self. The feeling in his
eyes is profound…

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
This was a gift to me. Representing…
a dream. One we were unable to fulfill.
(softly)
The way you can now.

And moves to the door. Stops. Offers the VULCAN SALUTE:

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
As my customary farewell would appear
oddly self serving, I will simply say…
good luck.

Their eyes hold. Spock turns, disappearing into the
corridor. Young Spock stares at the empty doorway a
beat, his mind a jumble of thoughts. Looks to the
pendant… and realizes it’s a HOLO-EMITTER. After
considering a beat, he hits an activation button and a
MOVING HOLOGRAPHIC MESSAGE materializes before him:

CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK. WILLIAM SHATNER. As always,
brash, wry, confident — and SINGING:

KIRK/ SHATNER
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to
you…
(stops, grins)
I know I know, it’s illogical to
celebrate something you had nothing to do
with, but I haven’t had the chance to
congratulate you on your appointment to
the ambassadorship so I thought I’d seize
the occasion… Bravo, Spock — they tell
me your first mission may take you away
for awhile, so I’ll be the first to wish
you luck… and to say…
(beat, emotional)
I miss you, old friend.

… and we’re PUSHING IN on Young Spock, taking in the
image of Kirk’s future self, the message, but above all —
the clear, unquestionable friendship these two men had…

INT. CORRIDOR – CONTINUOUS

As Spock Prime walks off down the corridor, he passes
right by a man conferring with a nurse — the man pauses,
turns… it’s SAREK. Suddenly overcome by a feeling that
the stranger who’s just passed him is… oddly familiar.

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I suppose I’d always imagined us…
outgrowing Starfleet together. Watching
life swing us into our Emeritus years…

INT. STARBASE ONE – HANGAR – ETERNAL NIGHT

MUSIC BUILDING — glass walls reveal THE ENTERPRISE at
dock, UTILITY CRAFTS floating around it, repairing.
Standing at attention in rows, THE ENTERPRISE CREW —
over four hundred of them wearing DRESS UNIFORMS — TRACK
DOWN the faces, all proud:

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I look around at the new cadets now and
can’t help thinking… has it really been
so long? Wasn’t it only yesterday we
stepped onto the Enterprise as boys?
That I had to prove to the crew I
deserved command… and their respect?

And we STOP ON YOUNG KIRK. Composed, focused, proud. A
man. And to every fan’s delight, finally wearing his
YELLOW SHIRT
. The FEDERATION COMMANDANT stands at a
podium:

COMMANDANT
This assembly calls Captain James
Tiberius Kirk…

Kirk breaks from formation, pivots, marches down the
hangar — past UHURA… SULU… CHEKOV… SCOTTY. All
Beaming. Notably absent, is Spock. Kirk ascends the
stairs, snaps to attention:

COMMANDANT (CONT’D)
Your inspirational valor and supreme
dedication to your comrades are in
keeping with the highest traditions of
service and reflect utmost credit to
yourself, your crew, and the Federation.
By Starfleet Order 28455, you are hereby
directed to report to Commanding Officer,
USS Enterprise, for duty as his relief.

Kirk turns. Walks to… PIKE. In a wheelchair now,
wearing an ADMIRAL’S UNIFORM. Overnight, his hair’s
turned totally grey — but despite his trauma, his
pride’s overwhelming. They SALUTE each other:

KIRK
I relieve you, Sir.
 

PIKE
… I am relieved.

He opens a BOX in his lap — glorious in repose, a MEDAL:

PIKE (CONT’D)
And as Fleet Admiral, for your… unique
solution to the Kobayashi Maru, it’s my
honor to award you with a commendation
for original thinking.

Pike containing a smirk, pins the medal to Kirk’s
chest…

PIKE (CONT’D)
(a touch choked)
Congratulations, Captain.

KIRK
Thank you, Sir.

Kirk turns to the crowd. Eyes shining. WILD APPLAUSE.
OUR MUSIC SOARS. Bones leans in to Sulu, rolling his
eyes:

BONES
… Same ship, different day.

As Kirk rejoins his crew for hugs and congratulations, we
go to the BACK of the hangar… SPOCK PRIME. Watching.
Moved beyond words. He turns and leaves them to it… as
he goes…

KIRK/SHATNER (V.O.)
I know what you’d say — ‘It’s their turn
now, Jim…’ And of course you’re
right… but it got me thinking:

INT. STARFLEET HOSPITAL – EARTH – DAY

Our montage comes full circle as we END on Kirk’s
transmission:

KIRK/SHATNER
Who’s to say we can’t go one more round?
By the last tally, only twenty five
percent of the galaxy’s been chartered…
I’d call that negligent. Criminal even —
an invitation. You once said being a
starship captain was my first, best
destiny… if that’s true, then yours is
to be by my side. If there’s any true
logic to the universe… we’ll end up on
that bridge again someday.

Stops, grins. Because this is the part he needs to say
most…

KIRK/SHATNER
Admit it, Spock. For people like us, the
journey itself… is home.

Young Spock’s face. Lost in feelings that flood through
him.

—————————

POLL: Powerful or Pandering?

So JJ Abrams felt that the above scene was too small and pandering to us the fans, what do you think? Do you want pandering?

Shatner scene for Star Trek 2009?

View Results

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Comments

1. freezejeans - May 1, 2011

This whole Shatner inclusion saga will never really end, will it?

2. cpelc - May 1, 2011

Moving. Simply put.

3. Lt. Jones - May 1, 2011

I just wish they’d filmed it— even if it just ended up as a deleted scene on the DVD.

4. Vultan - May 1, 2011

Well, I would’ve traded the Kirk happy birthday message for all the Delta Vega and tribble and Archer/beagle and Cardassian drink references and lines of dialogue from previous Treks that were haphazardly wedged into the script, but that’s just me. The happy birthday scene at least had something of an emotional punch, even if it would’ve been just “for the fans.”

5. Harry Ballz - May 1, 2011

Hey, the way that scene is written, it would have worked beautifully! I would like to think even Shatner would have been happy with this contribution to the new film. You don’t need a lot of lines of dialogue in order to grab the audience by the throat. Based on that criteria, this scene would not be considered small by any stretch of the imagination.

Well done, Bob!

6. Red Dead Ryan - May 1, 2011

Loved it! Can’t figure out why J.J Abrams couldn’t find a way to fit it into the movie. I mean, c’mon, he thought the Budweiser brewery would make a great engine room! I loved what J.J Abrams has done with Trek, but this one is something that CAN and SHOULD be rectified in the sequel, even if they have to shorten it a bit.

The only criticism I have of this is that it would have been a bit too lengthy for the movie as it might have overshadowed Chris Pine’s Kirk becoming captain.

But, like I said, it can be reworked for the sequel. If Shatner rejects it on the grounds of not being a big enough part, than its all on him. At least J.J could say he tried. If J.J doesn’t make an attempt, the blame will squarely be on his shoulders. Time to settle this once and for all.

7. doyouwannadance - May 1, 2011

Hey boborci, for gits and shiggles, you think you can get Shatner to record that voiceover now? :) I’d pay all over again to get that alternate ending on a second edition Blu-Ray disc.

8. doyouwannadance - May 1, 2011

… and if George Lucas can keep jiggering his old Star Wars movies with CGI updates and additional scenes, I’m sure JJ and the team could pull this off. You could release this in the theaters or BD/DVD right before Star Trek XII releases in summer 2012.

9. Dr. Image - May 1, 2011

Would’ve been glorious.

10. Gilberto - May 1, 2011

Problem solved: Shatner could play Cyrano Jones in ST2. No cameos, and he would simply ROCK in the part.

11. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - May 1, 2011

This needs to put in the new movie. Beautiful and powerful.I for one love this scene. Find a way bob. Find a way.

12. Moe - May 1, 2011

I may or may not have teared up while reading that. It would have been amazing to see that on film.

13. John Fitzgerald Byers - May 1, 2011

Actually, if it had to pander… at least it pandered well. This is why I liked the writing on the new Trek so much. I was able to enjoy the fan pandering while accepting it was fan pandering and not being annoyed by it.

If Shatner’s gotta be in the new film, may it at least be as good as this.

14. Jonboc - May 1, 2011

….sigh. Oh what could have been. Still luv ya JJ, and your Trek was awesome but man oh man did you miss the mark with this.

15. Anthony Pascale - May 1, 2011

I vote both. I like it, but have to admit it is also pandering to us. Of course Bob and Alex were also pandering to themselves as fans. But i can see JJ’s point of view. Although as I have said before, he told me it was his hardest decision.

Maybe for the next one

16. Maxx Flash - May 1, 2011

I teared up. This would have been a perfect ending.

17. Nathan - May 1, 2011

Both. It’s touching, especially the stuff at the end, but it’s clearly fan pandering.

But still…this would have tied things in so well, at the end. It does overshadow Pine’s Kirk a bit. But it could have been improved rather than jettisoned, I think.

Ah, well…what might have been!

18. Buzz Cagney - May 1, 2011

This scene leaves me curiously unmoved.

The main thing is we have have Trek’s greatest characters ever back on screen. The writers attention needs to be fully on making the characters true to how we know them.

19. Harry Ballz - May 1, 2011

It would appear pandering if it didn’t relate to the story, but the whole premise of the movie was how the timeline had been altered. Between showing NuSpock WHAT was changed in his life AND the importance of Kirk’s friendship (while making every fanboy want to touch himself), I think the scene would have worked.

20. Eagleman - May 1, 2011

THAT was powerful! Open ST XII with THAT!

No Star Wars “15” versions crap, just roll one movie into the next.

21. Jim Nightshade - May 1, 2011

Not sure as i feel that scene would kinda take focus off the new/old characters but as a fan i would have loved it-it also proves how well bob n alex know trek n the fans–very well written n moving–in a way, jjs not being a fan helped the movie reset itself for everyone so i see the reasoning behind not using it–but i agree with harry n anthony et al it was beautiful–

22. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - May 1, 2011

I voted both. This should have been done.

23. Paul - May 1, 2011

Why not make a bluray special edition with this alternate ending included & release in the run up to ST12 via seamless branching on bluray ????

Its the logical thing to do!!!

24. VOODOO - May 1, 2011

Pandering? How about giving the fans what they wanted.

For Christ sakes every major character in ST has died and been brought back at one point or another… Bottom line is that Star Trek is always better with Shatner and Nimoy involved.

I thought that the secene worked and would have been a HUGE crowd pleaser. Isn’t that what it’s all about?

P.S. What happended to all of Abrams talk about wanting to get Shatner involved?

25. Harry Ballz - May 1, 2011

23.

Uh, because Shatner would DEMAND at least $5 million for what would take 1 day to film?

26. Phil - May 1, 2011

And so starts another round of figuring out how to grease Shatner up and trying to stuff his round peg into a square hole……

27. chrisfawkes.com - May 1, 2011

Both, i would have loved that scene but the masses would likely have been taken out of the film, perhaps.

Also trekkies cannot be trusted to behave themselves in cinemas wheneever some in moment occurs and their behavior makes the movie going experience for non fans a freaky one.

Listening to the fans cream themselves laughing whenever data showed emotion during Generations was truly cringe worthy even for many fans.

Who knows how they would have responded during that scene. Either ridiculous laughter or some other vocal gesture to let everyone around them know “i get it”.

28. Cygnus-X1 - May 1, 2011

The charge that the scene was pandering to the fans begs the question:

What’s wrong with pandering to the fans?

What, we don’t deserve it for supporting Star Trek through thick and thin? For watching 3 awful seasons of Enterprise before (many say) it got good? And then massing a letter-writing campaign to bring the show back after it’d been canceled finally? For talking up the new Star Trek movie to anyone who would listen for two years in anticipation of the film’s release with more excitement and enthusiasm than any paid marketing could ever have done?

I can only assume that what JJ meant by his criticism was that the scene was a pander to the fans WITHOUT adding anything to the film. But I really don’t see how that could be the case. The inclusion of the most well-known actor of the franchise playing the most well-known character of the franchise giving a heartfelt well-wish to the second most well-known character in the franchise, the relationship of both characters being a major theme of the film, can hardly be considered lacking in relevance or import.

Either way, it’s a shame. At worst, that scene wouldn’t have hurt the film or offended anyone, and now Shatner may never get to end his career as part of the new Star Trek, and obviously we won’t get to have him be a part of it.

It’s a real pity. And it’s rather untoward to the fans.

29. Cygnus-X1 - May 1, 2011

P.S. — I’m guessing that Orci meant to write Shatner’s line as only 25% of the galaxy is “CHARTED,” as in seen and mapped, rather than “chartered,” as in a corporation officially organized as such.

30. Rastaman - May 1, 2011

It captures some of the nostalgia of Kirk’s final log entry in Star Trek VI. It would have improved my enjoyment of the movie. Not sure about “the masses.”

31. Andy Patterson - May 1, 2011

Might have been my favorite part….had it happened.

32. Trekman_dave - May 1, 2011

Love it, want it need it, someone make this happen in st12please

33. somethoughts - May 1, 2011

Beautifully written, however it would have stole the thunder away from the new cast and crew, also it did not contribute to the movie and story.

34. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - May 2, 2011

No thanks to pandering. What I expect from Star Trek is good fiction, not nostalgia-mongering.

35. sci-fi bri - May 2, 2011

pandering and lame

36. Basement Blogger - May 2, 2011

It’s a powerful scene. It would certainly help Spock to become Kirk’s friend. The one thing I hated about Star Trek 2009 was that it didn’t breathe. There was a fear of dialogue and of course a fear of us, the Trekkers. Fear that only Trekkers would go to the film. Remember the ad, “This isn’t your father’s Star Trek.” Of course, the studio didn’t realize how many Trekkers there were. .

And while I believe that J.J. Abrams is a fine director, he initially didn’t get Star Trek. He liked Star Wars more and viewed Star Trek through the spoof of Galaxy Quest. (Entertainment Weekly, 10-24-08, pg. 28-29) “I always thought it was a little talky,” said Abrams (Entertainment Weekly, 5-8-09, pg. 30) “WE WEREEN’T MAKING A MOVIE FOR FANS OF STAR TREK. We were making a movie for fans of movies.” said Abrams. (Entertainment Weekly, 10-24-08, pg. 31) So you can see Abrams wasn’t really interested in anything provacative that Star Trek wanted to say. Of course, Leonard Nimoy always says Star Trek works on multiple levels. Entertainment. Upltifing stories. And being provactive. (TrekMovie link where Nimoy at a convention describes what Star Trek is.)

While I criticize the approach of the 2009 film, I still like it. I think Abarams is a fine director and will do the next Trek with justice. That’s because he’s already said he wants to go deeper along with writer Damon Lindelof. Of course, there’s our friend Bob Orci who’s a major Trekker keeping them in line. Just remember, Bob. No Jar Jar Binks.

Check Leonard Nimoy’s comments at the 5:30 of the video.
http://trekmovie.com/2011/03/05/video-of-the-day-report-from-1973-star-trek-convention/

37. Jai1138 - May 2, 2011

As a Trek geek, I’d have loved it, As a filmmaker, Mr. Abrams was probably right. But it’s a nicely written scene and does the character a better send-off than he got (and this from someone who liked Generations).

38. captain_neill - May 2, 2011

Although as a Star Trek fan I had problems with the new movie I am actually glad this scene was not included.

It seems I must be the only one who seems to think it is a little contrived to get Shatner in the movie. Then again with all the contrivances in the script perhaps one more wouldn’t have mattered.

All I hope is that Orci and Kurtzman have done a better one for next time.

39. Aurore - May 2, 2011

It would have been pandering,but,only to the fans who wanted to see William Shatner. I did not.

I hope the new cast will be allowed to shine in the sequel. I, personally, don’t need one more “passage of the torch”.

40. David B - May 2, 2011

In all honesty there is no reason why you can’t play out that scene or the Spock young side of it with the hologram at the start of the next one sort of.

Easy.

Have the pre credits bit like in the TV show whatever that is for this movie.
Play credits with voice over “These are the voyages”

Next scene Enterprise at Starbase

Spock prime gives young spock the pendant as the Enterprise is about to leave the starbase

Play out scene.

Young spock walks on to the bridge

Young Kirk: so are you ready to go?

41. P Technobabble - May 2, 2011

I voted powerful, judging the scene on its own merits. I think it would have been great Star Trek, I think it would have made the fans happy, it would have been a bit of kissing up to the fans, etc. But it’s also just a great scene, period. You can see it all very clearly, happening right there on that movie screen in your mind…

42. Bearded Riker - May 2, 2011

You know, I would trade those additions for most of the other Easter eggs put into the movie. Having that recording of (Shatner) Kirk would have added a lot of meaning to the movie, especially with Spock and Kirk’s relationship. Things like the random tribble only added something that Trekkies would chuckle at and were mere references to TOS. The recording would have been something real.

43. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

Dear Bob,

Film the scene during the sequel.

Go back and insert it into a Director’s Cut of Star Trek (The Future Begins).

Re-release this Christmas to build anticipation for Star Trek To Boldly Go…

44. Admirmal_Bumblebee - May 2, 2011

“KIRK/SHATNER
Who’s to say we can’t go one more round?”

Yeah! Give them their last round. Bring back Shatner and Nimoy as Prime Kirk and Prime Spock for one last round.

45. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

43. (cont) …or whatever Star Trek Something Something Something, is going to be called.

BTW – Give Scott Bakula (or indeed any ENT cast members) a cameo of some sort, in the next film.

Pandering maybe. But Star Trek has always been about nice stuff like that, an audience can go away and find out more about, on their own terms. Often they discover fan pandering like in-jokes are not as peripheral to the plot as they look.

46. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

45. (cont) Not have the whole story hinge on it. Just adds another level, for those who care to look for it.

47. trekker 5 - May 2, 2011

very beautiful Bob!!! a bravo to you! ur the best writer around! i would have loved 2 have seen it in 09! but theres a reason 4 everything. hey Aurore!

48. Iva - May 2, 2011

Fan pandering? No, pandering is when you have people randomly stripping down to their underwear.

49. Aurore - May 2, 2011

Olivia!

Did you check on the “Abrams Expected To Direct” thread?

Take a look at the comments in 78 and 118, if you can.

:)

50. MJD - May 2, 2011

It’s a great sequence. And by the end of the movie it’s EARNED. Not pandering.

51. captainkirk - May 2, 2011

I think it’s better than the actual ending. The only thing I wonder is how they would convince us that 2008 Shatner was actually 1994 Shatner.

52. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

29. Yes, I assume that line should have read “charted” too…

It’s that Federation mix up again. That organisation was chartered in ENT’s last episode.

Charted means to map, to have a record of, in the past tense.

Chartered means to establish, conditions outlined – as in an official body of some sort.

53. Hugh Hoyland - May 2, 2011

I dig the scene, dang I may have shed a tear at that one. But thats from a trekkers point of view. I can see where JJ was coming from, it may have been a bit lost on the causual viewer.

54. Bearded Riker - May 2, 2011

@51 It’s called CGI. He did a Direct TV commercial where his face was digitally manipulated to look younger. If he was shown as a small hologram it seems to me it’d be pretty easy to do the same.

55. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

I don’t know I’d give an audience credit for working out it. It’s not exactly rocket science, that the Shatner is the Kirk, who Nimoy Spock once knew. If you don’t follow the history of the films (and why not?), then you don’t even need to understand that Shatner Kirk has been dead for a while.

It’s a lovely scene, mixed in with nu Kirk getting promoted and setting off in the Abramsverse. Dare I say, it makes that straight from Academy to Captain easier to swallow… because the old Kirk’s experiences are drawn upon and contrasted with nu Kirk’s path.

56. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

55. (edit) I don’t know. [<<< full stop] I’d give an audience credit for BEING ABLE TO work out it.

57. Alisa - May 2, 2011

I voted for both because it would certainly would have satisfied the fans, but it is also a VERY powerful scene. Though the scene they chose was good, it would still have been more powerful with Shatner there. Though it would have given Spock (Quinto) a glimpse into his own possible future. It’s possible they decided not to use it just for that. They wanted to leave the younger Spock the opportunity to develop the friendship and his future on his own. It is enough to know that he will grow into that friendship with Kirk, that it is something that will NOT change, but it is given the opportunity to unfold in the way that it should.

58. Jeyl - May 2, 2011

You want pandering? I’ll just give you a list for the main characters alone.

“I’m a doctor, not a…”
“We’re being hailed!”
Chekov and his inability to pronounce properly.
“Fascinating.”
“I don’t believe in the no-win scenario” complete with apple.
“I’m giving it all she’s got captain!”
Sulu with his sword skills.

But Kirk singing happy birthday to Spock and saying how much the time they spent together meant to him? I don’t recall any episode from the original series, or even the movies having a scene like that. But than again, since NuKirk is such a stuck up jerk, I guess it makes sense that it would seem out of character for any Kirk to say anything heartfelt to another character.

“you want to be able to look fans in the eye and say, “We were ready.””

Even without the Kirk scene, I might have agreed that you were ready. Unfortunately you gave the Star Trek monologue to Spock Prime and not to the characters that this film was focused on. If you won’t let your characters do what the original characters did on their own, how does that say you’re ready?

59. JimmyMac - May 2, 2011

Gives me chills………..

60. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

54. This is the ad, you’re thinking of.

Some of it doesn’t look too realistic.

But if the hologram was like the moment, he’s stood in the turbolift… that might’ve worked. Blurred like a Star Wars image recording or the Tasha Yar memoral device, Data kept in TNG. Rippling with interference to hide any imperfections in how the CG is done.

Doesn’t have to be another Jeff Bridges TRON moment, since it wouldn’t have had that amount of screentime or be seen that close-up.

61. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

Sorry… this

http://youtu.be/voILEz4iD_8

62. Danpaine - May 2, 2011

Can’t even express how much better that would have made that ending, and frankly, the whole film.

Bad, bad choice not to put it in. Just plain dumb.

Wholeheartedly agree with those who say it gives them chills to read it. Absolutely.

63. trekker 5 - May 2, 2011

Aurore,thanks for telling me!! lol you are so funny! and i guess T.R.E.K wouldn’t be such abad title! :)

64. Obama 1 Osama 0 - May 2, 2011

its a great scene but i liked the way there were just little hints of Shat,,,(e.g. – ‘James T Kirk was a great man..but that was another life’ ….“A trick i learned…from an old friend…” )

i think just those hints held greater power/more mystery than a full on Shatner cameo…

65. D D - May 2, 2011

As much as I’ve objected to Shatner returning to the new Star Trek films in the past, I have to admitt this would have been a fitting tribute and drawn a line under the previous crew. Hands up, this would have worked. Maybe included as a Directors cut for a future DVD release with an alternative ending?????

66. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 2, 2011

Count me in. I would have loved to see that as part of ST09’s original release.

67. Alec - May 2, 2011

I wish that’s how it had ended. To say it panders to the fans is a bit daft. The fans pay the tickets and buy the dvds: it’s good to ‘pander’ to them. And if the casual fans got the significance of having Nimoy’s Spock in the film, they would ‘get’ having Shatner’s Kirk in there too.

It was a powerful scene, which would have improved the film. It seems that it was JJ who said no to it. It was also JJ who gave us a brewery for an engineering set. It was JJ who commissioned that repetative music and composer. It was JJ who gave us product placement…Perhaps we need a new director? Then, we would get a better film.

68. kersplat - May 2, 2011

No Shatner please, he was only good in Generations because they finally killed him off lol

69. Desstruxion - May 2, 2011

I wish that I hadn’t read this. Now I feel robbed. That would have really been a nice way to end it. Sadly, as much as I’d like to see it, there’s really no way to include Shatner now that would make any sense. They’ve missed an opportunity and now it’s passed.

70. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

Probably a bit incorrect to call an updated version of Star Trek (2009), that includes this as a newly made ending, a Director’s Cut. Since what J.J. Abrams approved of, is what reached cinema screens.

Then again, Nicholas Meyer wanted to end The Wrath of Khan without “Remember” or any hint that Spock’s body survived intact. He was dead. End of story.

So maybe amending the film would be a Producer’s Cut or a Fan approved edition?

71. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

Some else strikes me about how this scene is written…

Pike was to have visably aged.

Kirk is being promoted to Captain.

A slight change to remove that Kobayashi Maru reference and audiences could have taken the scene two ways.

1) This scene happens immediately after the Nero incident and Kirk is being taken from the Academy and promoted, given the Enterprise in recognition. Pike’s hair change is due to shock.

2) A few years have passed by. Kirk has been summoned back to Earth, having served other assignments. He’s being given the Enterprise Captaincy. Pike’s hair change is due to the passage of time.

72. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

71. Actually scrub that. Clearly just me seeing non-existent loopholes. It doesn’t work.

73. moauvian waoul- aka: seymour hiney - May 2, 2011

But I like pandas.

74. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

Panda – an endangered species, often kept in captivity, doesn’t breed as much as they should.

A little panda goes a long way.

75. Horatio - May 2, 2011

A missed opportunity. It would have been glorious. I don’t buy in to the pandering to the fans arument… the whole film was pandering to the fans!

JJ, you blew that one.

76. Dee - lvs moon' surface - May 2, 2011

I voted… Powerful… but now it’s over… I wonder if the producers did not repent of not putting this scene in the movie… mainly JJAbrams?

And Mr. Bob Orci was very cool in this round table … like I said before!

:-) :-)

77. Shamelord - May 2, 2011

I voted both. the scene was emotional, but the movie’s storyline didn’t need it. It kind of took away the focus from the new cast that the team was trying hard to establish. But no question about that – it was great writing.

In keeping to what they did best in this movie – having an energetic narrative), had they filmed it, it would have ended in the deleted scene section.

78. Christopher Roberts - May 2, 2011

Off-topic

Osama DNA just confirmed.

Definitely dead…

I was amazed how quickly it was done and dusted.

Shame he couldn’t have been taken alive and brought to book.

Nevertheless a promise kept to the families of his victims.

79. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 2, 2011

Just voted. Yeah. It WAS powerful.

80. andrew - May 2, 2011

That scene was absolutely moving and would have made a good film great.

81. VZX - May 2, 2011

Yes, the scene was moving, but I’m glad they didn’t do it. It would take away from Chris Pine and the rest of the new crew. Abrams made a really good decision.

82. Kirk, James T. - May 2, 2011

I agree with Abrams.

It would be overly pandering and would I feel essentially make an every day movie going audience give off a huge sigh of disappointment – almost as ridiculous as having Amazing Grace playing at Spocks funeral…

Like The Next Generation before it, this Star Trek crew has to go it alone – Spock Prime was enough to bridge the gap and pass the torch, adding Shatner would have been just that; adding Shatner, not Kirk.

William Shatner may be forever the FIRST captain and the original Captain Kirk but since then he has become a very successful parody of himself and whilst I’m all for more fun, humour and adventure in Star Trek, adding Shatner would have gone too far.

83. VOODOO - May 2, 2011

J.J. gave us a great film and in the process saved the Star Trek franchise, but he really dropped the ball on this one…Shatner as Kirk would have made the film complete and brought the house down.

He has another chance in 2012.

84. Anthony Thompson - May 2, 2011

That scene would have been a distraction. And it would have left the younger, general audience going “huh???”. Good call to leave it out.

Also, I’m tired of Shatner. His day (in Trek, at least) is over.

85. CmdrR - May 2, 2011

Pandering? As if Uhura tonsil-tickling Spokeekins on the transporter pad wasn’t???

I shall repeat til I croak, this is the scene I want:

At some point, just before the credits, the JJprise pulls into space dock, smokin’ and damaged, but also victorious and proud from her latest encounter with galactic baddies. The camera pulls back to a point where we see a silhouette, or reflection in the glass. It’s unclear, but seems to be an old man, say about 80. There is NO explaination of who he is. We know who he is. We will argue for years about how he got there. Nevermind. Gazing out at the JJprise, He speaks:
“All… I ask is… a… tall ship… and… a star to… steer her by….”

theme/credits

86. Anthony L. - May 2, 2011

I agree with #58 I believe it was. The catchphrases and the like was much more like pandering to me.

Those lines, if performed well, would add a bit to the movie (and you wouldn’t need to be a trek fan to get the emotion conveyed there.

It was well written, and those guys should be proud of it, it was as well written as anything in the movie, and I wish there was a way to include it.

87. sean - May 2, 2011

It’s nice and all, but it would have been tacked-on. The scenes between Spock and Spock Prime sufficiently communicated what this scene would have, so it would have been overkill.

88. rocketscientist - May 2, 2011

I just think the whole scene is great! Yes, it’s a cameo for Shatner, but it’s a way to circumvent the horribly inept death of Kirk in GEN in a way that just adds so much power to the ending of ST XI. I think the “grand jury” was wrong on this one (Mr. Orci, am I right that you were the only one on the “jury” that wanted this scene to happen?).

Anyway, I love it, and I wish it’d been in the film. The ending was great as it was, but this would’ve been better.

89. NuFan - May 2, 2011

People are ignoring the fact that Shatner would never do a part that small.

90. Aurore - May 2, 2011

84.Anthony Thompson.

Oh, my god!!!

Anthony, is it possible?
We are…in.. agreement…on…something???

:))

91. GilmourD - May 2, 2011

Am I the only one that read that with Shatner’s voice in my head? I could totally imagine that.

92. trekker 5 - May 2, 2011

#91,i agree!! i heard it too! but as for Shatner bein StarTrek again,’all things do indeed end…..’

93. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - May 2, 2011

Im am sitting here with tears in my eyes…. That was just reading it one of the most moving/powerfull scenes i have ever gazed apon. That scene is why I LOVE STAR TREK

94. No One Khan Hear You - May 2, 2011

Has the term “Fandering” been spoken for yet?

95. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - May 2, 2011

@91

Well said.. I totally read that with shatners voice. I am just sitting here in astonishment that this scene was seen as pandering… JJ you should have at least had it filmed and could have put in special edition dvd with alternate ending…. Movies should be about making fans happy (pandering)

96. Hugh Hoyland - May 2, 2011

One reason Im not so upset about this scene not being in the movie is this. Shatner in his own words, on video (His personal web series), stated that he was never contacted to do it, but even if he had been he would have turned it down.

He said he isnt interested in doing a cameo, period. So if this touching scene is ever done, most likely it will be done with CGI.

97. Masshuu il Malacandra - May 2, 2011

Freezejeans:Maybe when fatShat dies it will finally be over.

98. Aurore - May 2, 2011

“Fandering”.

According to the “Urban dictionary”, the term has,indeed,already

been spoken for. Nice neologism.

99. Bringbacktrekagain! - May 2, 2011

Seems to me it can still happen, all you do is open the next one with that…Spock reflecting on having picked up the holo-emitter…etc.
I simply say it needs done.

100. Boozba - May 2, 2011

Please let the Kirk Prime thing die,let’s move on.

101. Nomad - May 2, 2011

Would be nice to see Shatner playing Grandpa Tiberius Kirk, maybe tagging along on some mission as an ambassador and cramping KIrk’s style like Indy’s dad. MIght be some comedy possiblities there. Or is that a really bad idea?

102. Boozba - May 2, 2011

#101
Now that’s a great idea for a cameo for the Shat!

103. I'm Cherokee Jack - May 2, 2011

It’s a nice scene,but pandering? No more than having Nimoy in the movie.Moot point,since Shatner wasn’t interested.
JJ Abrams seemed preoccupied about the movie’s pace,cutting out anything that might cause even a second’s impediment.He had no qualms about taking out even major plot points,such as explanations about where Nero got his weaponry or how he spent 20 years waiting for Spock.

104. Barney - May 2, 2011

Fan pandering is ridiculous. You don’t want to give fans what they want? Isn’t that the GOAL? Making a movie fans like?

This wasn’t the best scene for Shatner, so I’m fine with it not being included, but to actually think that fan pandering is a reason is just ridiculous.

105. Harry Ballz - May 2, 2011

Tell me, is fan pandering something like pan handling?

I guess the fans are begging for it?

106. blinkyzoid - May 2, 2011

That would have actually worked! I’m gutted it didn’t make it.

107. ensign joe - May 2, 2011

“The timing of the recording is not stated, but would have have been before Star Trek Generations and therefore not violate the canon that Kirk was killed in Generations.”

Why?

Why not have the stardate in the holo explicitly be after events from generations.. Like an X-Files/Fringe thing where the hows-and-whys are not stated but left open ended.. Its Star Trek and therefore canon.. we don’t HAVE to know.. it would be a great mystery that could be tackled later or not at all..

108. Lostrod - May 2, 2011

#103

“It’s a nice scene,but pandering? No more than having Nimoy in the movie.Moot point,since Shatner wasn’t interested”

Don’t blame Mr. Shatner since the part was never offered to him to turn down.

It’s amazing how many people somehow know what the guy thinks, wants and feels.

109. OtterVomit - May 2, 2011

JJ didn’t like this scene because as he has said before, he didn’t like or understand old Star Trek. He doesn’t understand why this scene would have been way more important than tribbles in the background, or familiar planet names (even when they make no sense in the context of the story).

110. Kirk, James T. - May 2, 2011

for a show like Star Trek that’s supposed to be forward thinking – it’s fans sure like to fuck around in the past – let the prime timeline rest in peace. Spock Prime did the whole passing of the torch thing now lets see a new, younger generation go out there and give us some fantastic stories, and I’m talking both of cast and crew – I absolutely adore the new Star Trek done by Abrams, it’s how I’ve always felt Star Trek should look, sound and play out like – anyone who disagrees has their head firmly rammed up the arse of the past.

Star Trek set in the 90’s (i mean 24th century) is dead, there was no where else to go except further into the black hole of nerdvana never to be seen by the generation Roddenberry would have loved Star Trek to be enjoyed by; the young, fresh faced kids of today. SO give it up, there will NEVER be another Star Trek set in it, and I welcome that.

It’s time to let Shatner return as Denny Crane and it’s time the fans accept Chris Pine as the best Captain Kirk – because to be honest, although Shatner did a fantastic job as Kirk, he was always better as Denny Crane and Pine’s take on the character will I’m sure be even better.

111. Trek Fan - May 2, 2011

Leaving Shatner out, the iconic figure who portrayed Captain Kirk since the 1960s, is not an insult to Star Trek fans but an insult to the general movie audience who associates this character with the larger than life actor.

112. Shannon Nutt - May 2, 2011

It’s a little of both. There’s some good dialogue there, but ultimately it doesn’t bring back Kirk Prime in any meaningful way. A better scene would have had Spock Prime telling Young Spock “You’re going to die in 20 years, and thanks to Nero, Kirk now has no place to take the body.” :)

113. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - May 2, 2011

Lord Garth likes the scene
I thought having even Nimoy could be considered pandering anyway (and refusing to admit that the film was actually a true reboot which it was)

I say get it into the next film

114. zperk - May 2, 2011

if anything, this incessant coverage of Shatner’s inclusion into New Trek is just pandering to his ego.

115. Tom - May 2, 2011

Is it taking so long to finish this script because they are desparately trying to get Shatner into the sequel?

My question to Bob would be Can you look the fans in the eye and say you were ready? as it pertains to this subject for the sequel!!

116. quacks5 - May 2, 2011

“Pandering to the fans?!?!” A phrase that shows just how arrogant Abrams and Orci are. If it weren’t for the fans Star Trek would have died after 1 or at most 2 seasons and there would be no spinoffs, no movies, and no blockbuster 2009 movie for these jerks to make money off of. Someone on another board said they should have “considered” the fans–a nicer turn of phrase, and one that doesn’t imply that any and all consideration of fan reaction is by definition “pandering”.
I really don’t care that the scene was cut, because so much about the movie was “pandering” to silliness, to what will sell.

117. Pott - May 2, 2011

I’m crying my eyes out. I wish this was in the movie…

118. Mike Thompson - May 2, 2011

Make it so…

119. Geekette - May 2, 2011

“Is it taking so long to finish this script because they are desparately trying to get Shatner into the sequel?”.

No, cos they’re tying to keep him out…

120. Tom - May 2, 2011

In reading the scene further I really think it would strengthen the sequel. It occurred to me that one of the gripes of Trek 09 was how rapidly Kirk attained the captaincy. Well Shatner reflects in the scene how he remembers trying to prove himself to the crew that he belonged as captain. Seems like that would fit in well with one of the potential themes for the sequel and solve a popular gripe from 09.

121. refuge5 - May 2, 2011

powerful! I get misty reading it now…

122. Lt. Bailey - May 2, 2011

Now this scene would have made the movie for me, thats what it needed or how it needed to end so the new crew can go on. It would not be pandering in as much as it would have shown respect to the fans and the original actors.

Very well done, the writers got this part right. The director has the last word but to exclude it was a mistake. To not have filmed it to at least see how it would have played is just plain wrong. Others have said it here too, it could have been a deleted scene on Blu ray/DVD.

They leave this out but we got Budweiser engine room… go figure.

123. Tim - May 2, 2011

I agree with post #7.

124. Tom - May 2, 2011

#119

They certainly did a greta job of that before

125. Greg2600 - May 2, 2011

I don’t think Shatner would have done it. I don’t think he would have agreed to a far lesser role than Nimoy. I also think he has had the mindset of many of the bring back Kirk fans, which is that Kirk has to be resurrected from the dead.

The other thing is, and I think this is very valid, is that Bill would have wanted scenes where he was able to act alongside Leonard, not to a green screen or something stupid like that. This scene isn’t memorable to me at all, neither was ST09. There’s no lasting feeling from it the way there was from several of the other films. Honestly I felt Nimoy’s scenes were largely pointless, nothing more than Leonard playing the figure of Spock.

I’m not saying they needed to be the stars, but IMO you don’t put Nimoy or Shatner in a Star Trek movie unless they have a vital role. Cameos are insulting to their legacy. That’s no different than Bill’s Direct TV commercial, a pointless cameo.

126. Kev-1 - May 2, 2011

I can only give my opinion, which is that the scene reduces Kirk to a 23rd century hallmark sound card and doesn’t really add that much. Plus, it’s just one more Star Wars similarity — Spock (Obi-wan) presenting the message to Kirk (Young hero) — in a movie rife with neo-wampas and an alien sidekick already. And I know Tasha gave Data a holo-gift, too. Why would Spock think the new guys must be friends anyway? It’s a new timeline.

127. dmduncan - May 2, 2011

Beautiful. Would have been the best scene in any JJ Abrams movie or TV show except for the George Kirk sacrifice scene.

128. Jonboc - May 2, 2011

Pandering? Hardly. No more so than Scotty’s tribble was “pandering”. Or the green Orion girl, or the basic shape of the Enterprise, or the red, blue and gold uniforms, or Leonard Nimoy AS Spock. These are all parts of the known Trek universe…their inclusion is not pandering, it’s part of the universe…just as Shatner…”Kirk” in Spock prime’s timeline…is part of that universe. His inclusion, via a prerecorded device provided by Nimoy, representing Spock from the prime timeline, would have been a non-issue and not a problem, or pandering, in the least.

129. DWNicolo - May 2, 2011

Hey Gilberto, I have a better idea. Shatner as Harry Mudd.

130. Punkspocker - May 2, 2011

I got teary-eyed reading it, but the film was better without it.

131. Damian - May 2, 2011

I have mixed feelings about the scene. Nothing in it contradicts what came before (other than Shatner obviously looks far different than he did in 1994). It has some emotional appeal, but at the same time I can see the pandering point. I don’t think most of the moviegoing public cares to see Shatner play one final farewell. Perhaps had Abrams filmed it and left it out (except on special edition DVD’s) it might have satisfied some.

However I see 2 overall problems here. One, I still believe 100 % that Shatner would not have been content with a small bit role. He would have wanted an intergral part to the story. He even spoke of having his novels where he is resurrected canonized to get him in. He wanted a key role like Nimoy’s. Two, had they filmed it and left it on the cutting floor, he would have raised bloody hell over it.

In any event, I think it’s too late. To get him in the next film would require a significant detour (unless his resurrection is the story, a la Search for Spock). I am convinced he would only agree to a role as the Captain Kirk from the original universe. He is not going to play some other supporting character while Chris Pine gets to play Captain Kirk. Forget it, ain’t gonna happen. Captain Kirk died in Generations. That is the role Shatner agreed to (he could have vetoed it at any time) knowing full well that would be the end to his character on screen. Frankly, I look forward to seeing the new cast spread their wings and fly on their own. TNG crew had a very successful film in “First Contact” on their own, and I have no reason to believe the new cast can do the same with the next film.

132. Damian - May 2, 2011

131–Sorry, my last sentence should have read …., and I have EVERY reason to believe the new cast can do the same with the next film.

133. The Unknown Poster - May 2, 2011

I think Shatner was less likely to accept a cameo during filming of the first one than he is now. The size of the role would have been vastly out-weighed by the scope and importance and emotion.

I also like the change in dialogue where Kirk is presented with his badge for original thinking.

I echo others’ sentiments that they should film the scene as written and place it in a new cut of the movie. And look at it this way, if they do want to “shock” viewers with a Shanter cameo in the sequel, using the filming of additional footage for the first movie as cover would do nicely.

134. Scott B. here. - May 2, 2011

Re: #29 – Cygnus, thanks for pointing that out. The “unchartered/uncharted” mistake is one of my bugaboos (I hear it on some ad for investment banking (?) all the time on CNN). Add to that one people who use “silver bullet” when they mean “magic bullet,” or “the gorilla in the room” when they mean “the elephant in the room (and no, it’s not a white elephant), and people who don’t know the difference between “then” and “than.”

I actually liked the Shatner scene. Pandering? What’s one more pander among friends? :-)

Scott B. out.

135. Thorbury - May 2, 2011

It’s a far poorer film without that scene. Big mistake, seriously.

136. Will_H - May 2, 2011

Might do them some good to pander to the fans. With out us the franchise would of died after the first 3 seasons of TOS. They can still make a solid and enjoyable movie that will make both the fans and general public happy but sometimes JJ (not so much the writers) seems almost intent to ignore what fans want.

137. Trek Nerd Central - May 2, 2011

To Bob I say:

Pander to us, baby. Don’t hold back!

138. SB - May 2, 2011

Can’t express how happy I am the scene never made it into the film.

it sticks straight up out of the script like a sore thumb. It adds nothing to the story and tells us only what we already know quite well about the characters and that, in fact, the movie has already told us.

Other than that, it’s pure, unadulterated fanwank, existing for no other reason than to give the most rabid fans — and one actor — a little extra twist at the end of the stroke, if you know what I mean and I think you do.

Absolutely no disrespect meant to Orci and Kurtzman: they did their best with the scene. But it’s clear their instincts about it were correct, and I bet they went crazy trying to get it right before finally concluding that it couldn’t be made right — specifically because it doesn’t belong.

139. Chain of Command - May 2, 2011

Generations……..

UGH.

The movie that brought Kirk and Picard together…..To cook eggs. Yeah, that was a GREAT idea.

140. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - May 2, 2011

I must be a softy, but I must admit, reading that made me just a bit chokey.

I think the movie did just fine without it, but I wish they’d filmed it anyway and put it on the DVD as a deleted scene. I really loved it.

If this is fan-pandering, then pander to all of us in the next film.

141. Green-Blooded-Bastard - May 2, 2011

I hate having my emotions manipulated like this…but it’s good. Good writing. It’s a shame it wasn’t filmed for the DVD’s extra content. Why not?

142. Cygnus-X1 - May 2, 2011

I think it’s time…

For Nick Meyer to make a triumphant return to Star Trek.

To grab hold of the wheel…

And take us for another fantastic ride.

And you know he wouldn’t be worried about pandering to us.

But his pandering would be so well done that one could hardly call it such.

143. pbn - May 2, 2011

Since they chose not to place young Spock with the Kirk recording during young Kirk’s ‘coronation,’ can anyone tell me why they kept young Spock “noticeably absent”? Did they mean to suggest he was sulking, or that he still had little faith in Kirk?

How odd, btw, that Spock did not also receive a medal.

144. Bones Rodriguez - May 2, 2011

Oh God, I am so sad that a boardroom would think to ROB us of this pleasure. Such a well written scene. What a waste of great inspired thought,

145. Ivory - May 2, 2011

Mr. Orci – I am a HUGE fan of what you guys did with “Star Trek” but to not include William Shatner when he clearly wants to be involved in the project isn’t cool…Is it truly pandering to fans to include the series most popular icon if the majority of people would like to see Shatner return as Kirk?

Mr. Orci you are in a unique position to give Shatner’s Kirk the ending he deserves. How cool would it be for you to know that you were the person who truly saved James T. Kirk before it is too late. I suspect the fanboy deep down in you wants to do this and in time will regret it if you don’t.

P.S. I loved the scene you wrote for Shatner last time around. Write an equally good scene this time around.

146. number6 - May 2, 2011

Powerfully pandering.. I am glad we didn’t get this scene and that Shatner wasn’t involved. At least Nimoy’s Spock served the story. This seemed tacked on at the last minute.

147. Dave C. - May 2, 2011

I am sad to see this scene was never presented to Mr. Shatner. It would’ve been the perfect way to legitimately get New Spock to understand that he & New Kirk were destined to be friends for life. Very sad!

148. jas_montreal - May 2, 2011

They can still add it for the sequel. Its upto the team.

149. Dunsel Report - May 2, 2011

Pandering and violates the dramatic unity of the story…Kirk showing up and waxing nostalgic has nothing to do with any of the big questions or plot forces that drove the last two hours.

150. Thomas - May 2, 2011

I do like the scene as written, but I find myself wondering if it plays better in my head than it might have on screen. I’ve said in previous threads that I didn’t miss Shatner in the last movie, as I thought it was just fine without him. We got our old characters back, while also being given the opportunity to see them in a new and different light. When I play the scene in my head, I imagine Shatner as he was rather than as he is now, before Shatner the actor was supplanted by Shatner the personality. When I see Shatner now, I don’t automatically think “Kirk” anymore.

151. SoonerDave - May 3, 2011

I think that would have been absolutely awesome.

It is astonishing to me how these guys have *completely* nailed the timbre, inflection, and nuance of the dialog of these characters, and I think Shatner would have been smart enough to realize this would have been more powerful than twenty minutes of dialog consisting of nothing more than “open a hailing frequency” and “fire phasers.”

This is truly an opportunity lost.

Blast Berman for killing off Kirk in the first place. And blast Shatner for letting him go through with it.

152. dennycranium - May 3, 2011

Shatner would never have agreed to a cameo in front of a green screen singing happy birthday.

153. T'Cal - May 3, 2011

This could’ve worked. It might’ve been the better emotional bookend to match that tearjerker scene of George Kirk’s sacrificial death.

154. Aashlee - May 3, 2011

A powerfully written scene, but it did not belong in this movie, especially near the end. It would have been the equivalent of Shatner swooping in at the last minute, stealing the thunder that this universe and this cast just built during the previous two hours. Quite the distraction, I think. J.J. Abrams was wise to leave this out and keep the focus and momentum toward Chris Pine’s Kirk.

Quite honestly, there’s no way Mr. Shatner would have accepted this very limited role, especially when Mr. Nimoy had a much larger one in the same film. It’s just not his nature, I’m afraid. To borrow Thomas’ terminology from above, Shatner The Personality would never have stood for it.

I agree that it would be fun to film this. It would be the video equivalent of some of the better fan fiction. Fun to watch, but definitely AU.

155. TrekkieJan - May 3, 2011

“Some fans love this sort of story, while others declare it ‘fannish’…which is odd, since I write all my books for myself, and I am a fan.” Peter David, intro to his massively loved Q-Squared.

What I most resent about the “pandering to fans” excuse is that’s exactly that the writers did – pandered to a fan – but of Star Wars, not Star Trek (i.e. JJ ABrams.)
Personally, I hope to see a lot more “pandering” to Star Trek fans in the next movie – if I even decide to spend my time and money seeing it. And I will, if I’m pandered to, enough.

156. Jefferies Tuber - May 3, 2011

Great writing, tear-jerking, but not good for the story. Destroying Spock’s home planet is enough… granting him that degree of precognition undermines the authenticity of their friendship.

157. Aashlee - May 3, 2011

@ 156 “…granting him that degree of precognition undermines the authenticity of their friendship.”

That’s one of the best points I’ve read.

Thinking further on it, Young Spock, if he has the same stubborn streak that Spock Prime had at that age (and I’m sure that he does), might resist the friendship if Spock Prime pushes him into it. Spock Prime seems to know that it’s wise for Young Spock and Kirk to find and form the friendship on their own. Suggesting the possibility is enough. Hammering it in with a holovid is overdoing it.

158. SB - May 3, 2011

#155…

“What I most resent about the “pandering to fans” excuse is that’s exactly that the writers did – pandered to a fan – but of Star Wars, not Star Trek (i.e. JJ ABrams.)”

You mean the director, right? You mean Alex and Bob’s *boss*, right? You mean, the person whose responsibility it was to provide overall control and creative direction to the project… right?

Do me a favor. Go look up the definitions of “pandering,” “fan,” and “employer,” then get back to me.

159. wjaspers - May 3, 2011

Forgot crap in the poll.

160. Phil - May 3, 2011

No pandering. If Shat shows up, it had better be in a Priceline commerical in spacedock. If people are going to mock the film, might at least try to be funny….

161. Chadwick - May 3, 2011

Why is there no “uninterested” option. This wasn’t powerful or pandering it was bloody boring.

162. Chadwick - May 3, 2011

159, wjaspers, agreed!

163. Keachick (rose pinenut) - May 3, 2011

It was not necessary for the film. Nice scene though. I voted “Both”.

I agree that neither this alternate Spock or Kirk need to be told that they are destined to be great friends. They need to find that out for themselves. Anyway, this is an alternate universe, which means things may not necessarily happen always as they did in the prime universe. Prime Spock opened his younger counterpart up to the possibilities, which was more than enough.

164. Sid - May 3, 2011

That would’ve been a wonderful way to close out the movie.

Could’ve then lead out with Shatner instead of Nimoy doing the “space the final frontier,” voiceover one last time, and then credits.

Blatant fanservice, obviously, but congruent with the story and a very nice touch.

Should’ve done it.

165. Katie G. - May 3, 2011

Um… sorry if this has already been said, but…

WHAT’S WRONG WITH PANDERING TO THE FANS??????

Forgive me if I’m wrong but isn’t that where they get their money from? Our wallets? The movie business wouldn’t be so lucrative if the “fans” weren’t there to pay to see the product.

So I say, pander away!!

ktg

166. T'Leba - May 3, 2011

I’m glad Shatner wasn’t in the film.

167. The Red Shirt Diaries - May 3, 2011

boborci- Pleeeaaassseee get this scene in Trek12!
As I have said ad nauseum in these posts, this may be your last chance to honor these two!
It will bring a tear to the eye of the lifelong and new Trek fans alike and may even pique the interest of the “newbies” to explore TOS and the original movies because of the profound emotion brought about by this scene.
PPPLEASE Bob, JJ, Alex and Damon!
Now that is pandering!

168. Keachick (rose pinenut) - May 3, 2011

I suspect it may be up to Paramount, William Shatner and their collective egos as to whether we get to see or hear Shatner, in any form, in the movie sequel.
Would Shatner do a cameo (not necessarily playing James Kirk – Chris Pine plays that Kirk now) to pander to his many fans and for the Star Trek franchise for a minimum wage? (Like he needs the money, anyway).

169. WannaBeatle - May 3, 2011

“meh” it needed tons of re-writes to even feel like Kirk.

I still can’t believe that they were so ‘worried about violating canon’ when the entire movie violated canon.

I have never in my life ever hated a movie so much when I wanted to like it. It was so un-Trek like in the first place. I’m hoping that some other filmmaker will come along and completely ignore (or fix the time line, as James Cawley had in his short). I even tried to give the movie another chance and saw it again on video…still gave me a horrible taste in my mouth.

It felt like a cookie cutter action movie that just had Trek in the name and no other resemblance. No offence meant towards the screenwriters (I know they’re on here a lot), I know what it’s like being in the business, I’ve been in the entertainment business for well over 25 years.

170. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - May 3, 2011

Boborci has not commented on anything yet about this… Bob are you going to let JJ know how we feel about this scene?

171. JP Saylor - May 3, 2011

Screw JJ man.

Pandering to the fans…

What a crock.

I feel like all the Star Trek I know (TOS-ENT) is good, classic, original music. And the new Star Trek movies are like a shitty rap remix of my beloved music.

Don’t screw up Star Trek any more.

PLEASE!!

172. DeShonn Steinblatt - May 3, 2011

No fatties on the screen. There’s too many in the audience already.

173. Phil - May 3, 2011

Whining and begging isn’t pandering, and it’s not going to happen. No Shat in the next, period. The franchise made him wealthy, it owes him nothing.

174. gingerly - May 3, 2011

Powerful on paper.
Would’ve been cheesy as hell, and yes pandering, on film.

175. Jonboc - May 3, 2011

#169 “It felt like a cookie cutter action movie that just had Trek in the name and no other resemblance. No offence meant towards the screenwriters (I know they’re on here a lot), I know what it’s like being in the business, I’ve been in the entertainment business for well over 25 years.”

…just haven’t been a TOS fan that long I would guess. That movie was dripping TOS…and not once did it feel remotely like TNG or the latter Treks, which is totally appropriate as those later Treks were cut from a completely different cloth. Star Trek 2009 felt very much like the original source material. And yes, this Shatner scene would have been THE cherry atop the already delicious icing, that compliments JJs amazing TOS cake.

176. Ivory - May 3, 2011

To all those who are saying Shatner would never do a cameo I would like to remind you that this is the same man who does splat ball videos. His no cameo line came out of him wanting to pad his wallet and his ego.

There is still room to involve Shatner going forward.

177. Danpaine - May 3, 2011

Unless you writers are some fine wizards, I can’t see a viable way to get that WONDERFUL scene in there for the next film, since I’m reasonably certain it won’t have much to do with time/alternate-reality travel.

Definitely an opportunity missed. I can’t believe this really kind of ruined my day when this post came up two days ago. It seriously bummed me out. As a Trek fan of 33 years, that one scene would have made the difference for me, from a good movie, to a GREAT one.

Ah, well. At least you wrote it, and shared it. Great thought. Really.

178. Danpaine - May 3, 2011

…and that “pandering” line is a bunch of s&^%T.

Apologies.

179. Steve - May 3, 2011

This scene absolutely belonged in the movie.

180. Dom - May 4, 2011

Both. Nice little scene. I would have used the recording with Kirk looking older than in Generations. After all, it’s Kirk: we know he’d get back from the dead somehow!

At the same time, I’m not keen on all the stuff with Spock Prime pushing this universe’s Kirk and Spock to be friends. Friendships develop if they develop. There was more warmth and fun in the Kirk and McCoy friendship for me in the last film.

So a good scene, but, given the superb casting and performances, as unnecessary (yet fun!) as Leonard Nimoy’s appearance was in the last film.

181. captain_neill - May 4, 2011

The problem with the scene is that is seems a little contrived, just to get Shatner in there.

It plays like Spock saying to Alt Spock “You will become great friends, but don’t take my word for it.” and then whips out a hologram message.

It would be nice for Shatner to play but it just feels a little shoe horned.

182. captain_neill - May 4, 2011

Also Spock’s line about the Pendant rpresenting a dream not ful filled, but can be now.

That sounds like the writers implying that this universe is going to be better than the Prime Universe.

As much as I like the fact the new movie had an alternate universe to allow canon to remain intact, I am still going to prefer the prime universe.

183. Daoud - May 4, 2011

The revised versions before filming could have lessened the pander.
.
And I would have expected William Shatner to suggest instead of “singing” Happy Birthday, that he do the “staccato sing” Shatner is known for. Happy.. Birth… day…. toyouhappy… Birthday…. to….. you.
.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda.
.
So revise it and use it on Star Trek 2: Boldly Go. And SURE AS HELL WATCH THOLIAN WEB AGAIN! The scene where McCoy and Spock run the tape they later claim to Kirk they didn’t run…. That’ll give you some pitch-perfect cues.

184. John from Cincinnati - May 4, 2011

Fan pandering.

Why on Earth give anything to a group of people that has carried the franchise for decades?

185. Ken - May 4, 2011

I rarely shout on the internet, but:

FOR GOD’S SAKE PLEASE FILM/ADAPT THIS AND MAKE IT HAPPEN!!

It’s a well conceieved scene that truly would pass the torch to young Kirk, a voice from beyond telling him “Godspeed, James Kirk!”

The key to this being needed: Trek is beyond just being a movie or piece of fiction. It is a cultural icon, a touchstone of modern myth in living form and it deserves this to be done.

186. Robert Gillis - May 4, 2011

First, this scene is beautiful and I would love to see it…

I’m kind of okay with it not beig in the first movie — St2009 was very much about Spock and it would have taken away from the emotional POW at the end of the film…

What about the next film? Have Shatner film it and inlcude it in the new movie. There can be a million ways where Chris Pine’s Kirk is wondering just how he could ever be such close friends wiuth Quinto-Spock, and he takes out the device while having a drink with Bones or something, and plays it.

“What’s that?” Bones asks.

“A gift from… a friend…” Chris Pine says.

It would be IN-CRED-IBLE.

Bob Orci I know you read this forum so I may I say THANK YOU, THANK YOU for what you and the Supreme Court have brought to Trek. we love ya man!

187. Robert Gillis - May 4, 2011

Sorry for typos in the previous post…

First, this scene is beautiful and I would love to see it…
I’m kind of okay with it not being in the first movie — ST2009 was very much about Spock and it would have taken away from the emotional POW at the end of the film…

But it’s a great scene and should be filmed and used — What about the next film? Have Shatner film it and include it in the new movie. There can be a million ways where Chris Pine’s Kirk is wondering just how he could ever be such close friends with Quinto-Spock, and he takes out the holo-device while having a drink with Bones or something, and plays it.

“What’s that?” Bones asks.

“A gift from… a friend…” Chris Pine says.

It would be IN-CRED-IBLE.

A great nod to all Shatner contributed to trek, great for the fans, etc…
AND… It could even be written to indicate it was recorded AFTER Kirk’s death on Viridian III — meaning Kirk-Prime cheated death once again.

“…Especially after the events on Viridna III, I suppose I’d always imagined us… outgrowing Starfleet together. Watching life swing us into our Emeritus years…”

Bob Orci I know you read this forum so I may I say THANK YOU, THANK YOU for what you and the Supreme Court have brought to Trek. We love ya man!

188. WannaBeatle - May 4, 2011

re: 175 about what I said in 169 “…just haven’t been a TOS fan that long I would guess. That movie was dripping TOS…and not once did it feel remotely like TNG or the latter Treks, which is totally appropriate as those later Treks were cut from a completely different cloth. Star Trek 2009 felt very much like the original source material. And yes, this Shatner scene would have been THE cherry atop the already delicious icing, that compliments JJs amazing TOS cake.”

No, I’ve been a fan since the late 70’s.

I still stand by what I said

189. Spock Of Ages - May 4, 2011

It would have been a perfect ending

190. TrekkieJan - May 4, 2011

#158
Pander:
1. To act as a go-between or liaison in sexual intrigues; function as a procurer.
2. To cater to the lower tastes and desires of others or exploit their weaknesses.

I submit they wrote a Star Wars script for their Star Wars fan boss, which, when you compare the stupidly of Star Wars to the intelligence and science in Star Trek makes this pandering. I’m a Star Trek fan (do I really have to define fan and boss for you?) and I’m a boss when I choose which movie tickets to buy, too.

191. BiggestTOSfanever - May 5, 2011

Don’t you think that if it is fan pandering, the fans (us) will think it’s powerful and moving? That’s probably why the poll shows powerful, because we the fans voted on it.

192. Ivory - May 5, 2011

It’s pretty lame that that the filmmakers are trying to spite the fans because they are “pandering”…Without those same pandering fans there would be no Star Trek.

193. dubb - May 5, 2011

I almost wish this bit of script was never released to the public. It really does bring a tear to my eye reading it again, and it almost ruins the movie for me now knowing it was not included. Wonderful writing.

194. MJ - May 5, 2011

I goot be honest, this come across even lamer now than when I first heard the gist of it last year. The thought of seeing 81-year old obese Shat singing happy birthday to Spock brings back uncomfortable memories of the Row Row You Boat sequence in Trek 5. Thank goodness this is never going to be filmed!

195. MJ - May 5, 2011

@181 “The problem with the scene is that is seems a little contrived, just to get Shatner in there. It plays like Spock saying to Alt Spock “You will become great friends, but don’t take my word for it.” and then whips out a hologram message. It would be nice for Shatner to play but it just feels a little shoe horned.”

Captain Nell, the day has arrived where you and I are in full agreement on something! :-)

196. MJ - May 5, 2011

@174 “Powerful on paper. Would’ve been cheesy as hell, and yes pandering, on film.”

Wow, Gingerly and I agree on something as well!

If the collectively irascible Captain Nell, Gingerly and MJ all agree on something, then you can darn well bet that they are 100% correct on that topic.

Pandering, contrived and cheesy — damn straight!

197. NTH - May 5, 2011

It would have been a wonderful addition to the last movie and would have left a lasting impression on many people.I would love to see something similar similar being included in the next movie.From a simply personal perspective I would like to see the recorded message be from Shatners Kirk as he is now and have him also thank Spock for always being there for him from his first day on the Enterprise to Veridian 3… I would require no other explanation….. If only!!

198. Ivory - May 5, 2011

Who gives a rats ass if it’s a” little contrived” if it gets William Shatner back in Star Trek?

199. Red Dead Ryan - May 5, 2011

196.
……

“If the collectively irascible Captain Neill, Gingerly and MJ all agree on something, then you can darn well bet that they are 100% correct on that topic.”

Well, me being outside of your exclusive “anti-Shatner/Kirk-hologram scene” club, let me offer you all some much needed objectivity:

Done right, a Shatner scene like the one written would be a great send-off to a living legend. The hologram scene wouldn’t require any exposition since it would be self-explanatory. Also, Harry Ballz (who has criticised Shatner a few times) said it was “beautifully written”. So, in closing, let me be the first to say that you are 100% WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

200. Kulia - May 6, 2011

This is such BS. They profess to be worried about pandering, then they go ahead and run roughshod over the integrity of the entire series storyline. Don’t they know, Trekkers love and expect to be pandered to!!! Morons!

201. Harry Ballz - May 6, 2011

199. “Harry Ballz said it was ‘beautifully written'”

Yeah, and since I’m the pickiest bastard in the world, it MUST be good!

202. MJ - May 6, 2011

@200. Name calling…my, how classy.

203. Harry Ballz - May 7, 2011

CLASSY! OH, CLASSY! COME HOME, CLASSY!

WHAT’S THAT, CLASSY? TIMMY IS DOWN THE WELL?

204. Drake - May 14, 2011

It gives new meaning to the whole thing.

205. skyjedi - May 19, 2011

If they cared about pandering to fans they would not have abandoned universe A the Roddenberry universe for B JJ Universe.

It simply is keeping the brand alive and selling a product, has nothing at all to do with staying true to the spirit of the original series.

Didn’t even Shatner kill off kirk for a mere paycheck ?

206. Superabound - January 16, 2012

Kirk hooking up with green space babes is pandering. THIS is just simply great, powerful writing, that shows the writers really knew the subject and fan base they were working with. 100% on the mark, emotional, and beautiful. Structured perfectly, and a perfect way to pass the torch from the old generation to the new. Not filming and including this just seems like one of the biggest missed opportunities in movie history, and i cant help but feel there was something else going on with the use of Shatner that prevented this from being included in the movie. It would have been literally perfect.

On the other hand, not including it probably prevented me from embarrassing the hell out of myself in public by tearing up during a Star Trek movie.

207. Joey Musial - February 10, 2012

THIS kind of stuff is what I love about Star Trek and what makes it so much better than Star Wars. Star Trek actually has moving scenes and a moral undertone. It’s about humanity, and the journey being the center of life, it’s about hope, the will to explore, and what the future an be like. That’s really moving, to me at least.

208. Joey Musial - February 10, 2012

THIS kind of stuff is what I love about Star Trek and what makes it so much better than Star Wars. Star Trek actually has moving scenes and a moral undertone. It’s about humanity, and the journey being the center of life, it’s about hope, the will to explore, and what the future an be like. That’s really moving, to me at least.

209. Joey Musial - February 10, 2012

THIS kind of stuff is what I love about Star Trek and what makes it so much better than Star Wars. Star Trek actually has moving scenes and a moral undertone. It’s about humanity, and the journey being the center of life, it’s about hope, the will to explore, and what the future an be like. That’s really moving, to me at least.

210. Joey Musial - February 10, 2012

THIS kind of stuff is what I love about Star Trek and what makes it so much better than Star Wars. Star Trek actually has moving scenes and a moral undertone. It’s about humanity, and the journey being the center of life, it’s about hope, the will to explore, and what the future an be like. That’s really moving, to me at least.

211. Joey Musial - February 10, 2012

THIS kind of stuff is what I love about Star Trek and what makes it so much better than Star Wars. Star Trek actually has moving scenes and a moral undertone. It’s about humanity, and the journey being the center of life, it’s about hope, the will to explore, and what the future an be like. That’s really moving, to me at least.

212. Joe - June 11, 2012

it would have been a nice way to transition the story from crazy super action based sci-fi to exploratory sci-fi. the only thing you get at the end is the old opening credits read by spock, but no explanation that they are now going on a journey… to chart the unknown… and this is a nice wedge that the new kirk, who in this timeline didn’t ever really feel at home anywhere (somewhat parallel to the old kirk, but now with more reason), now has one…

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