Garrett Wang Talks Clashes With Brannon Braga & Rick Berman + Lost Opportunity For Star Trek Voyager Movie | TrekMovie.com
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Garrett Wang Talks Clashes With Brannon Braga & Rick Berman + Lost Opportunity For Star Trek Voyager Movie June 22, 2011

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: History,VOY , trackback

Star Trek Voyager has been off the air for a decade, but actor Garrett Wang still has some issues with how the show was run, and how it was ended. In a new interview the Ensign Kim actor reveals how he feels about decisions made by show producers Brannon Braga and Rick Berman, including not getting a chance to be on the big screen.

 

Wang on Berman, Braga and no Voyager feature film

Garrett Wang spoke to the official Star Trek site about his life today and his life on board the USS Voyager for seven seasons as Ensign Harry Kim. He was very candid about some of his issues with the show, starting off with the whole perpetual Ensign thing, saying:

Kim was probed, beaten, tortured and held the distinction of being the first Voyager crew member to die and come back to life. What more does a guy have to do to get promoted to Lieutenant for frak’s sake? To add further insult to injury, other crew members such as Tuvok (Russ) and Paris were being promoted, demoted and then re- promoted throughout the seven-year run of Voyager.

I’m not trying to be negative here; just saying it like it is. During the fourth season, I called writer/producer Brannon Braga and asked him why my character hadn’t received a promotion yet. His response? “Well, somebody’s gotta be the ensign.” Geez, thanks. Thanks for nothing.

But Wang doesn’t just have a bone to pick with Brannon Braga, the actor also recalls a strange direction he received from show producer Rick Berman, saying:

When casting ended on Voyager, all the actors were invited by executive producer Rick Berman to attend a congratulatory luncheon. It was during this lunch that Berman informed us that he expected all actors portraying human roles to follow his decree. He told us that we were to underplay our human characters. He wanted our line delivery to be as military — and subsequently devoid of emotion — as possible, since this, in his opinion, was the only way to make the aliens look real.

My first thought was, “That’s not right! What the heck was Berman talking about? Was he pulling our legs? The human characters shouldn’t be forced to muffle their emotions. We were human, not androids!”

Wang goes on to say that he believes his revealing some of his concerns to a TV Guide reporter early in Voyager’s run "sealed the death" of any chance of him getting to direct an episode, noting "I was the first actor in Star Trek history to be denied the chance to direct."


Garrett Wang wishes Kim got promoted from Ensign (L), but he did get to be a captain in an alternate time line (R) at least

Like some actors from Star Trek: Enterprise, Wang seems to have issues with Voyager’s crew not getting the chance to get to the big screen (like the original Star Trek and Next Generation before). Here is Wang’s suggestion for a better version of Voyager’s finale:

If I was running Star Trek: Voyager, what I would have done is keep the first hour exactly the way it was and, the second hour, I would have taken the same kind of pacing as the first hour and then ended it with a caption on screen saying, “To be continued at a theater near you.” Then I would have done a two-hour feature film.

For much more from Wang, read the full interview: Part 1 and Part 2.

And for even more Wang, Syfy.de has released another clip of Wang from Fedcon XX, this time talking about lessons learned on location for Star Trek: Voyager.

 

Comments

1. MJ - June 22, 2011

OMG, a Voyager movie…someone please wake me up, I am having a nightmare, and it is a really bad one!

2. stef - June 22, 2011

FU, MJ!

3. Paul - June 22, 2011

Captain of the USS Delusional!!!! even TNG struggled on the big screen Voyager struggled on TV only Jeri Ryan kept it on air for so long!!!

4. JohnChicago - June 22, 2011

Bitterness does not become him. Albeit, slightly out of context and maybe some truth there, but still a bit undisciplined, wouldn’t you say?

5. Dac - June 22, 2011

Couldn’t have been any worse than Nemesis, and besides – Voyager actually needed to be 1 or 2 hours longer. That ending was…weak.

6. Schnotty - June 22, 2011

“he expected all actors portraying human roles to follow his decree. He told us that we were to underplay our human characters. He wanted our line delivery to be as military — and subsequently devoid of emotion — as possible, since this, in his opinion, was the only way to make the aliens look real.”

That explains just about everything.

7. somethoughts - June 22, 2011

Although gw has a point, he should look at the positives, being cast for a tv show that ran for 7yrs and know how lucky he was to be picked out of hundreds if not thousands of applicants.

Too bad GR wasnt around to make voyager good from the get go.

8. Phil - June 22, 2011

@2. Lighten up, Stef. People are allowed different opinions on the quality of the show.

Garrett, it’s not always a good idea to air differences with the boss publically. That said, I really don’t think Voyager was ever going to get the big screen treatment. There just isn’t a way to could turn an edisode of the show into a two hour movie, and make any kind of money on it.

9. Anthony L. - June 22, 2011

I still think Nemesis would have been better served as a blow off to the dominion war and have like a mega movie with all three casts having something going on.

I can also see why that never happened as well, but I still like that idea better than the actual movie we got.

10. Alec - June 22, 2011

VGR and ENT were terrible.

11. FACTCHECKER - June 22, 2011

Seriously? You had a career acting on Star Trek for seven years which gave you a steady paycheck, (more than what I make at my studio) and launched you out of complete obscurity and you COMPLAIN?

12. Blake Powers - June 22, 2011

At least Garrett is honest.. That’s what I like most about him.

13. DOOUCHE - June 22, 2011

VOY sucked balls and Ensign Kim was the most boring character of all star trek series.

14. I'm Dead Jim! - June 22, 2011

@13 Apparently, that’s because he was just following Berman’s orders, to the letter.

15. James - June 22, 2011

‘Tis an odd fellow who is offended because his fictional character is not promoted.

16. Mike - June 22, 2011

Why is it that every actor who says something negative about a show is considered “bitter” by the fans?

17. Frank Jay Gruber - June 22, 2011

It’s obvious Garrett cares passionately about Trek. Whether all agree with him or not, it’s admirable that he’s willing to comport himself as a Trek fan/professional and not distance himself.

18. Cygnus-X1 - June 22, 2011

Ending Voyager with a feature film isn’t a bad idea, except that the movie would’ve sucked because the TV show sucked.

I do sympathise with Wang, however, about the poor choices of the people in charge of the show. His testimony only reinforces the conclusion that most fans drew long ago, however, which is that Rick Berman was a glorified bean-counter who tanked the franchise.

Let’s have the human characters devoid of emotion in order to make the aliens seem more real? Uhh…but don’t the emotionless humans, then, seem less real? But it’s better to have realistic alien characters than realistic human characters? Can you imagine Gene Roddenberry coming up with an idea like that? What’s the Andorian word for unimaginative?

19. Nony - June 22, 2011

Every article I read about Garrett, he’s complaining about everything the Star Trek Powers That Be did, and saying *he* absolutely could have done it all better if only he’d been in charge of the decision-making rather than being a lowly peon.

…He is a true-blue Trekkie! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

(I do agree with him about the emotion thing.)

20. mikeypikey - June 22, 2011

While the statements he made in some magazine probably did’nt help his chances of directing an episode of Voyager, he forgot to mention he was late on a few occasions turning up on set, I think I read before his character was nowhere to be seen in an episode as punishment? lol

21. Browncoat1984 - June 22, 2011

What Garret said is proof that by Voyager Berman and Braga had no idea what they were doing. Look at Farscape and Doctor Who…neither series asks their actors to do what Berman does and they do or did perfectly fine! Same goes for Stargate!

22. T'Cal - June 22, 2011

I watched all of VOY (as well as TOS, TNG, DS9 & ENT) and enjoyed a lot of it but still have to wonder if there was enough of a following to warrant a cliff hanger movie. Other than FC, the TNG movies were weak overall and I wish it had stayed on TV. I would love to see that era represented in a 6 part miniseries that brings in elements from TNG, Titan, DS9, and VOY – maybe even New Frontiers. Not a “let’s-include-everyone-from-every-show-and-mash-it-all-together-into-fan-wank.” Just a big story that perhaps includes a story that originated in one show and it has evolved into something that affected some from another show as well as Starfleet Medical where Beverly or Bashir is and Starfleet Command where Adm. Picard or Jellico is. The Dominion War could be that element or something that happened during it. An 8-hour miniseries could cover many characters – some old and many new.

23. somethoughts - June 22, 2011

Problem with ds9, voyager and enterprise was over saturation.

Star Trek grew stale and the writers seemed bored, I really miss the TNG days, running home from school looking to see what the enterprise encountered and what cool civilizations, natural phenomenons or ethical dillemas the crew would face.

I never really enjoyed any of the ds9, voyager or enterprise characters or stories. The only one that stood out I think was 100th epis for voyager, timeless.

Instead of trying a space station, crew lost in space or a prequel series, why not just go with another big starship, bigger and more grand than the enterprise, a sulu series, kelvin or titan series would have been better, btw war stories are boring for tv, stick with what worked in tos and tng

24. I'm Cherokee Jack - June 22, 2011

We said goodbye to VGR long ago.

25. John Trumbull - June 22, 2011

The Berman “no emotion for humans” mandate spells out SOOOOOOOO much about went wrong with Berman-era Trek.

Braga was damn right to keep one character as a Ensign, though. And you couldn’t pay me to see a VOY movie.

26. N - June 22, 2011

@23 we are a diverse fanbase, my opinions are practically the opposite of yours. I love DS9, VOY and ENT because of their characters and stories.

I do like TNG, it has some great episodes but I wouldn’t invest in DVDs and the TNG movies are good, espeically First Contact and Generations.

I can’t stand TOS and it’s movies :P

27. PEB - June 22, 2011

Ensign Kim was POORLY written. He was a kid who was by the book and wet behind the ears but very smart (seems like the standard on trek tv…) but he was written into the crewmember i couldnt stand watching. People complained about Wes Crusher but Kim was faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more annoying and it was laughable to even see him commanding his own ship in the finale. He had the potential to be one of the brightest out of the entire crew if written better.
Then again, there were problems with the entire crew that I’m sure all of you are already aware of.

28. Desstruxion - June 22, 2011

I would have seen it. We all would have seen it. Were Trekkies. That’s what we do.

29. MJ - June 22, 2011

@25. You nailed both issues, John:

(1) Voyager was an awful show largely because of Berman, the guy responsible for running the franchise into the ground;

(2) Wang is on of those “entitled’ type of employee who whines about everything and blames others for supposed injustices against him….not to mention him being frequently late to work and calling in sick much too frequently…and his actual talent level is not close to his self perception of it (think George Takei).

30. MJ - June 22, 2011

@28. No, I would not have paid to see a Voyager movie. As a ST Captain once said:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HEEERE!!!!!

Even at Trek fans, we all have our limits beyond which we can be pushed. A Voyager movie would been my personal limit of what I could take from Berman and company.

31. PEB - June 22, 2011

@29 whoa whoa whoa….leave Takei out of this please. Yes there are times when he talks as if he’s God’s gift, but he’s light years ahead of GW (and not just because he was a member of the crew that started it all either). Trek VI gave everyone a glimpse at what he could do, where he’d progressed and what an Excelsior show (handled by the right ppl) could have given the fans of the Trek universe. it was a shame they never made it.

32. "Check the Circuit!" - June 22, 2011

Whether it’s justified or not, I’m surprised MR Wang is bad mouthing his former producers while he’s out looking for a new job. I know I wouldn’t want to go to an audition or interview with the reputation of having a bad attitude.

“Next!”

33. pilotfred - June 22, 2011

i liked kim and yes it dose not make any sence that he still be an enisgn for 7 years and if it had been tng , ds9 he would have been pronoted

i still feel that voyager was the worste star trek programe it was the only time i looked at the actor and saw a bunch of people wearing silly custumes

and i agree that branon was a lot to blame just look atb enterprise when he left and manny took over just how much better did that get

as for a big screen of voyager no no no no no no times all the star in the univeres

34. sean - June 22, 2011

Wang is hardly the first actor from Voyager to express displeasure with the behind-the-scenes stuff, and they almost uniformly identify Braga & Berman as the problem.

That being said, he’s living in a fantasy if he ever thought a Voyager movie was a real possibility.

35. Kev-1 - June 22, 2011

He (Wang) makes some good points. The “decree”, if it happened just like that, is unfortunate. I’m not sure any of the last three spinoffs could have supported films.

36. MJ - June 22, 2011

@33 “I liked Kim and yes it dose not make any sense that he still be an ensign for 7 years and if it had been tng , ds9 he would have been promoted.”

Perhaps William Shatner held Ensign Kim’s promotion to Lieutenant up…you know, just like he held up Sulu’s promotion to Captain all those years.

;-)

37. bill hiro - June 22, 2011

“I was the first actor in Star Trek history to be denied the chance to direct.”

Not exactly true. Shatner and Nimoy both wanted to direct during the original series run and weren’t allowed to do so either.

38. Matthew M - June 22, 2011

I think all comments should start with ‘IMO’ and then proceed. That way if your negativity makes an arse out of yourselves it’s O.K. With all this, how can you call yourselves Trekkies, Trekkers, Star Trek Fanboys/girls and be so negative about so much? To be a Star Trek Fan means you accept it all, the good, the bad and the ugly but you don’t rant about it!

Oh yes…………….
“IN MY OPINION’!

39. Allen Williams - June 22, 2011

If I would have done anything differently it would have been getting the ship home a year sooner, so they could have a season to reaclimate back into society. I always wondered how the maquee would have been greeted. I also didn’t like the “Nelix can only be happy with his own kind” thing.

40. MJ - June 22, 2011

@38. Dude, these are anonymous posts on a web site. Of course they are opinions. Duh? You think we all starting facts here? WOW??? LOL

41. ncc50446 - June 22, 2011

He wasn’t the only main character never to get promoted lol Miles O’Brien never got promoted in DS9…Sure, he was as high up as he could go, but I did always feel bad for him having to call Nog sir…

As for Voyager, it wasn’t as good as it could have been…And Harry Kim was fairly weak…But I still enjoyed Voyager. And would have watched it in the theatre..

42. Telly Follows the Will of Landru - June 22, 2011

38 – “To be a Star Trek Fan measn you accept it all, the good, the bad and the ugly but you don’t rant about it!”

What a sad, sad, sad statement.

IMO.

Blind faith and adoration over stating your true feelings? Not what Star Trek was about in the least bit, unless you are using the Vulcan logic of the early years of “Enterprise”.

Me, I loved DS9 and TOS, liked TNG (felt the characters were a bit bland at times, and now I see why – Berman at work), disliked VOY and hated ENT. My perrogitive. The world’s big enough for me to say that without being a “bad Trekkie/Trekker/Star Trek fan”. Just like its the perrogitive the guy three posts from now who flames the ever-loving hell out of me for stating that _I_ hated Enterprise (how dare I?!?!) and that he thought DS9 was targ droppings.

WE HAVE OPINIONS!
WE ARE DIFFERENT!
IDIC!!!!!!

What sickens me (besides, like Shatner, being told how to say “sabotage”) is that Trek is built on the concept of the IDIC – infinite diversity in infinite combinations – but very few “fans” are able to live by that edict.

Oh well. As old Fred Nutter used to say after his editorial commentary on the local NBC affiliate here in Maine, “That’s our opinion. We welcome yours.”

43. John - June 22, 2011

I seem to remember quite well during the entire run of Voyager, Garrett was always late to the Paramount Studios fo rehearsals and shooting his scenes.

There were other issues with Garrett The execs and producers had with him. There’s a lot more to it than poor Garrett’s side of the story.

44. Sebastian S. - June 22, 2011

Love his use of the word “frak”; nice to hear from another BSG fan….

45. MvRojo - June 22, 2011

It was kinda lame he was an ensign for so long, but it would have changed nothing about the show or the character.

46. EdDr - June 22, 2011

#30MJ ===== Even though Picard said the line is drawn here, he did change his mind later on……

47. Thorny - June 22, 2011

Mr. Wang is absolutely right about the dull human characters. If his story is true, that explains a great deal about Voyager (and probably Enterprise as well.) Ensign Kim was a poorly fleshed-out character portrayed by a not particularly impressive actor. But Kim should have been promoted when Paris was demoted in “Thirty Days”. There’s no consistent explanation that didn’t occur.

I for one would have screamed bloody murder if after seven years of faithful (sometimes painful) viewing, “Voyager” did not show us the crew getting back to Earth. “Sorry, go to the theater and pay us $7 to see how it turns out.”

…and the horse you rode in on, Mr. Wang.

48. MJ - June 22, 2011

@46. Well, there is that. :-)

49. EdDr - June 22, 2011

#37 I take his comment of
“Star Trek” history to include not just the TV series but the movies as well….but yes I understand that he was referring to just the ST series on TV

50. EdDr - June 22, 2011

#10….Ahhhhhh, but you did watch, didn’t you………..

51. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - June 22, 2011

I like what Garret Wang has to say. It’s honest, and it rings true. I do not construe any of it as entitlement, except maybe the issue of directing; that was a privilege, not a right. On the other hand, the notion that the producers acted like school principles and punished the actors for trivial deviations from expected behavior does seem plausible, and a mark of excess power hunger on the producers’ parts.

Not only did the acting on TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT need to be less regimented, freer, and more human, but the producers should have relented from regimenting the shows’ sets as well.

Voyager deserved a movie, but such a movie would only have been good if it had gotten the ST2009 treatment: a wholly different, more modern and forward-thinking production team.

52. Canon Schmanon - June 22, 2011

Well, that edict for the human characters to be unemotional would jibe with how awful Voyager often was. If it’s true, then Berman is a bigger idiot than I ever thought him to be. But the drama was tepid no matter what species was front and center. The series finale is a prime example. After going through seven years of hell, including the “Year of Hell”, Voyager finally breaks through and gets home and what do they do? They smile at each other. I’ve never seen a more disappointing finale to a series. No emotion, no feeling, no elation, no celebration. You get my meaning.

It was a terrible letdown. I wanted to feel something other than disappointment. That was my most common emotion with Voyager. I’m afraid Garrett Wang was being very unrealistic thinking that a Voyager movie would happen. I doubt it was ever seriously considered. Thankfully, I would add.

Voyager had some of the most bland characters ever created for a Trek series. That trend continued in Enterprise. They lost their mojo after DS9 ended, and from there only went through the motions. Sure, there were bright spots, but they were too few and far between.

I can only judge Wang from his Voyager performances because I haven’t seen him in anything else. I wasn’t impressed, but then, I wasn’t impressed with anybody except maybe for Robert Picardo. Maybe if they’d been given better stories they could have shown us something. Unfortunately the writers were burned out by then, and only working for the paycheck.

53. Canon Schmanon - June 22, 2011

38. Matthew M “Trekkers, Star Trek Fanboys/girls and be so negative about so much? To be a Star Trek Fan means you accept it all, the good, the bad and the ugly but you don’t rant about it!”

Wow, I just read what you wrote. I assume that what I write is known as my opinion, but I sometimes do point it out. Still, to ask people to never be critical about something is ludicrous. How does anything ever improve if you don’t point out the bad? I will never be totally sunny about Star Trek. Sometimes it sucked and sometimes it was great.

And, by the way, you were ranting. In my opinion.

54. VOODOO - June 22, 2011

Memo to Wang

Nobody watched Voyager for free at home. Why do you think people would pay to see it in a theatre?

55. MJ - June 22, 2011

@53. And not only that Canon, but the whole point of the article is Wang being critical….so are we suppose to just accept what Wang says at face value with a smile on our faces…especially given 90% of us here obviously think Wang is full of shit???

56. Basement Blogger - June 22, 2011

I liked Voyager and Enterprise. The more I see Enterprise the more I like it. I liked the way they went back to man’s first steps traveling to the stars. It’s all about finding new life and civilizations. When it ran here in Cincinnati, the show was on a low powered TV station and in this market it was hard to get. (Link: UPN) That was one of the factors in its demise.

On Voyager, to me, it was about exploring space. That was made apparent and beautifully with the opening credits. LOVE THOSE PLANETS. And another majestic and bold theme by Jerry Goldsmith. You see Voyager was lost in the Delta Quadrant with the goal of looking for a way home. While they were coming home, they explored new worlds.

I’m guessing Rick Berman kept Garrett Wang as ensign to be the “virgin” in space. :-) Remember Seven’s awkward pass at him? Of course, Harry Kim (Wang) didn’t get anywhere. Poor kid, he very rarely got the girl. He’s the wide eyed kid that appeals to the excitement of the first trip into space. He was the kid you loved and worried about. Remember the line from the Borg Queen in Unimatrix Zero where she threatens Harry, “We’ll see you soon Harry.” All fans got scared. The Borg are coming after Harry? Oh no. Well, he does become a captain in “End Game.” Sorry it took the series finale to age and promote him.

Off the top of my head, my favoirte episodes in Voyager were The Cloud, Heroes and Demons, Scorpion, Parts One and Two.

Lack of availability hurts Enterprise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPN#Availability

57. Magic_Al - June 22, 2011

It’s always a little weird when Star Trek actors go to the producer to ask for their fictional character to get a promotion in the fictional Starfleet. Cashing in your chips to help your character’s fictional career doesn’t actually advance your real acting career.

58. VOODOO - June 22, 2011

57. Magic_Al

“It’s always a little weird when Star Trek actors go to the producer to ask for their fictional character to get a promotion in the fictional Starfleet.”

I agree 100% It’s really strange… Ever hear George Takei talk about Sulu’s fictional promotion? Sweet Jesus he comes across as someone who just escaped a mental institution and is hiding out at a Star Trek convention.

59. Red Dead Ryan - June 22, 2011

I find it very interesting that, ten years after “Voyager” ended, Garrett Wang is only now revealing his anger at the people who ran the show at the time. While what he said is probably true, perhaps he’s also angry that his career has died and is finding scapegoats.

Anyway, I think ‘Voyager” is easily the weakest of the shows. We only got to see bits of the potential the show had. A lot of the time, it was a TNG-rehash.

“Enterprise” was a better show, maybe not in the first season, but the third and fourth seasons clearly showed that. Also, the “Enterprise” characters were better developed, especially Archer, T’Pol, and Tucker, who formed a trio similar to the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic. Ensign Mayweather and Ensign Sato were much better than Ensign Kim, who wasn’t bad by any stretch, but he just wasn’t as well written.

My favorite series though is “Deep Space Nine”. It had it all. Great characters. Great story arcs. Great battle scenes. Great acting. Great writing. And it did the best when it explored some dark and grey areas, such as in the episode “In The Pale Moonlight”.

60. freddy - June 22, 2011

Hello everybody:
first and foremost to all trek fans: DS9 was a B5 ripoff and the sooner you admit that the better. 75% of ds9 eposides sucked balls.

61. SB - June 22, 2011

Man, I love it when fans proclaim their opinions as if they’re universal truths, don’t you? ;)

62. sean - June 22, 2011

#57, 58

Yeah, how bizarre that an actor would want his character to grow and change instead of stagnating.

/end sarcasm

63. mikeypikey - June 22, 2011

Whether or not it’s a rip-off, it’s nice to have one done by professionals……. ds9 of course ;-)

64. Red Dead Ryan - June 22, 2011

#60.

First and foremost to all Trek fans: Freddy is a troll and an idiot. The sooner he realizes that, the better. 75% of DS9 episodes were good-great.

Thanks.

65. Canon Schmanon - June 22, 2011

I loved DS9 and B5. While there were superficial similarities between both shows, they were extremely different. If DS9 was inspired by what B5 was doing, that’s great. Both shows sucked in their first seasons but really took off after that. DS9’s final season was very inconsistent, while B5’s final season was pretty consistently wretched. Still, seasons 2, 3 and 4 were some of the best drama ever put on television. I may find fault with both series, but my love for them is the dominant feeling.

66. The Riddler - June 22, 2011

Berman really was a dick.

67. Thorny - June 22, 2011

65… Me too. I almost gave up on B5 during it’s first season, but stuck with it, weird, momentum-killing PTEN scheduling and all. Glad I did! Seasons 2-4 were brilliant. Sometimes better than DS9, sometimes not. Those few years when both B5 and DS9 were on the air was Sci-Fi Nirvana. Sci-Fi TV has been in decline ever since, with mediocre Voyager and even worse Enterprise followed by about a year of great BSG before it too declined into mediocrity. Now, nothing. I really don’t expect to see another period of great Sci-Fi TV like we had in 1995-98. The industry is just too fragmented now and I doubt that will ever change for the better. And that’s a tad depressing.

68. Keachick (rose pinenut) - June 22, 2011

Can you hear me?

69. Red Dead Ryan - June 22, 2011

#67.

We also had “The X-Files”, which was good until season seven. “The Outer Limits” was fun too, as was the very brief “Space: Above And Beyond”.

Those were the days….

70. Polly - June 22, 2011

@38. “To be a Star Trek Fan means you accept it all, the good, the bad and the ugly but you don’t rant about it!”

Seriously? You want us to just sit back and be like “yeah cool screw up my favorite franchise won’t say a word about it because I. Must. Accept. All.”
Sorry, can’t do that. You see I have this thing called a human brain and it won’t let me be an indifferent, mindless, all-complying android….

71. Robert H. - June 22, 2011

I can understand why Garrett seemed a little miffed about that. As well why Voyager didn’t seem to have that same sense of emotion as the previous Treks.

72. chain of command - June 22, 2011

Voyager was really just a missed opportunity. It had potential but it never felt believable. I mean, these guys (two opposing crews for that matter) were trapped 70 years from home and, despite the distance and all the hell they went through, the ship looked like it just rolled off the showroom floor when it got home (and had more shuttle craft on board than when it disappeared).

It should have been darker. I always thought that it would have been really cool to have had a different captain in the pilot and have Janeway as a low ranking officer who is forced to assume command after the captain was killed in the trip to the Delta Quadrant. I think this could have made things very interesting, especially since Chakotay was a former commander in Star Fleet. You would have had this whole dynamic of Janeway trying not only to rally what was left of her own crew, but also trying to convince a former commander that had gone renegade that they had to work together to survive.

As it turned out it was just TNG season 8-14 with a different ship and crew.

73. Gary - June 22, 2011

Let GW’s experience be a lesson to all: “Don’t $h** where you eat.”

An actor’s job from the actor’s point of view is to be employable for the next role after the current one ends. Complaining in public about his boss wasn’t a good move for his career.

74. Vultan - June 22, 2011

#69

Agreed! 90’s sci-fi television was some of the best weekly storytelling since the 60’s. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like we’re going to return to the heyday any time soon… if ever. Too much Syfy “original movie” sort of dreck out there now, with perhaps a few notable exceptions.

Anyway, nice to see another Space: AAB fan on here. Chiggy Von Richthofen would approve! ;)

75. Soran - June 22, 2011

Whether or not a Voyager movie would have been good – and I never wanted one – there would have been resentful groans from viewers everywhere if they were told to pay to see the rest of the finale. What he is proposing would have been a rip-off.

@29 – good call on George Takei.

76. Matthias from Germany - June 22, 2011

Sometimes I wished, Roddenberry would still be alive. This is a very egoistical, “only-Star-Tre-wish”. Although Voyager and DS9 had great moments, it never would have been. Roddenberrys Star Trek never accepted the need of war. In DS9 war was one important content. And somehow I have my doubts, he would have said “Yes” to “Voyager”. On the other hand, TOS and TNG would still be on the air or / and in the cinemas. It would be the one positive and intelligent series. In my opinion the team around Abrams is capable to make it more like Roddenberry. We will see in the next movie, but Nimoy never would have worked with them, if the contrary would be true. If I am sad about something in connection with Star Trek, it is the unglorious ending of TNG. Not the not-existing of a Voyager movie. The undiscovered country was a good ending for the old series. Nemesis was in my opinion a good movie, but after all they chucked TNG only away. The one series that made so much people at Paramount rich was chucked away! This and the unglorious death of James T. Kirk in Generations are the two “Star Trek Sins”, Paramount has done that I am really sad about. Voyager… well, it was okay. Not more, not less. It had its moments, but TOS and TNG was and still IS (for me and so much more Trekkies) “real Star Trek”.

77. mateo - June 22, 2011

He is trying to make excuses for his miserable acting and Voyager being terrible overall. Having a caption that said “to be continued at a theater near you”? OMG – horrendous…just like everything else about Voyager. Can this guy just go away?

ps, he looks horrible for his age.

78. Buzz Cagney - June 22, 2011

Thats started my day with a good laugh! Many thanks.
Another one with pretentions about the show they were in and themself.

79. Jon Spencer - June 22, 2011

I loved voyager overall. I wish they could have been brought into a TNG movie or something. Trek in general deserves better. I love them all. Garrett, you’re awesome too.

80. MJ - June 22, 2011

@79. Your forgot to mention how awesome Justin Bieber is?

81. NuKirk - June 22, 2011

People atop b!tch!ng over Voyager being crappy!!! Not all of it was crappy! There were quite a few legendary episodes…such as Timeless, One Small Step, Scorpion Parts 1 & 2, Year of Hell Parts 1 & 2, Flesh & Blood Parts 1 & 2, and many more… Plus…need I remind you were it not for the test run with concepts for Voyager, the frakking awesome Battlestar Galactica reboot would never have occurred?

That being said the Berman plague: I do recall half the TNG cast stating in interviews that they even got mightily sick of it regarding Nemesis. Berman was to Star Trek what Steve Jobs is to Apple: its savior and its poison. The only Star Trek show Berman didn’t turn into a wastepile was DS9.

That being said: a Voyager movie could’ve worked… an adaptation of the sequel books to the novelization of the series finale could’ve worked. It involved a story where after getting home and as the crew adapted to life back in the Alpha Quadrant, slowly it began to be revealed that Voyager, via Seven, had inadvertently brought a Borg assimilation virus back with them and Earth’s population started to gradually turn into drones.

As for a multiseries movie saga, Judith & Garfield Reeves-Stephens wrote a trilogy called Deep Space Nine: Millennium that involved the DS9 crew stumbling upon 3 Pah-Wraith Orbs which eventually created a red Pah-Wraith wormhole which destroyed DS9 and propelled the crew into a horrific future where the Federation was near collapse, and a Pah-Wraith-driven Bajoran Ascendency ruled the Quadrant, with Weyoun as Bajoran Kai…it involved future versions of several characters and with some tweaking to fix out of date elements could still make a great film trilogy.

It basically was a DS9 take on the Biblical Apocalypse. surprisingly good…

Also good for a film series would be an adaptation of the more recent Destiny trilogy, as well as the Countdown comics, which would also serve as a great bridge film between Nemesis and JJ’s reboot film.

82. Snark Trek - June 22, 2011

No worries, people. When Janeway went back in time to save her crew in the finale, she, according to Abrams logic, created an alternate reality and actually saved the new Voyager and not her “prime” crew… So the original band is still out there. Except for maybe the ones who died. And Tuvok going crazy… But the point is, maybe after 17 years Kim got his promotion! …… Naaah.

83. MJ - June 22, 2011

@81 “People atop b!tch!ng over Voyager being crappy!!! ”

Agreed. Only people on the bottom or using the missionary position should be allowed to complain about Voyager!

84. NuKirk - June 22, 2011

#69 lest we not forget Andromeda which was based off another idea of Gene Roddenberry’s…

NOTE TO ORCI AND CO. : IF YOU EVER DO A NEW TREK SERIES GET KEVIN SORBO AS CAPTAIN.

85. Jim Nightshade - June 22, 2011

Well i am one of those weird trek fans that enjoyed all the tv shows–i think janeways love for her crew n ship made the crew a family-tuvok was a unique spin on vulcans,belana torres was a great klignon–harry kim was ok–definately not the best written of the characters-i thought the future janeway goingg back in time to rescue the crew early to save tuvoks life n her awesome battle with the borg queen was an awesome ending arch-it was great to see the borg queen again–also loved the reprise of their battle in borg 4d at the trek experience-the future armor in the voyager ending was very clever with elements like torres giving birth-just perfect–imho one of the better endings for a trek series–oh yes n the doctor one of the best n funniest holograms ever–

86. NuKirk - June 22, 2011

My point, #83, is that people need to stop nitpicking the faults of that which can’t be fixed now and look for the bright points of it. That was after all, the whole point of Star Trek in general. A brighter future. Yes, there were lots of really poor decisions made, but the past is the past. Plus we should savor what has been as likely we’re not going to see any television Trek again for a long time.

87. Luke Forester - June 22, 2011

Kim and Chakotay were both criminally marginalized in Voyager

88. MJ - June 22, 2011

@86. Yea, but the whole article is Wang himself bitching and nitpicking about Voyager. So that is the source you should be upset with.

89. NuKirk - June 22, 2011

#88 Garrett wasn’t bitching/nitpicking. He was voicing his concerns as a former cast member. People here however, sometimes can get rather troll-like at times, which is in part why I only post here occasionally. Some fans dissect things too much and that’s part of why the general public sometimes dislikes Star Trek fans, and views them, as Weird Al Yankovic put it, ‘White and Nerdy’…

Some here may take issue with what Garrett said but he, if anyone, having been part of the cast, should have the right to voice his concerns about how Voyager was run. MY issue is with people above who basically attacked Garrett for exercising his right to free speech. As for how it would affect his career, it’s a decade later. Enough time has passed, and if anything his career tanked because of typecasting, not his attacking Rick Berman, which he had every right to do given the damage Berman did to Trek.

90. NuKirk - June 22, 2011

Also: to those talking about why Enterprise was cancelled, despite popular opinion, it wasn’t due to ratings/quality of the show. It was due to the reorganization UPN and the WB made before merging into The CW, a network any Star Trek show would never have been welcome on due to the then-new network’s teen slant. Buffy spinoff Angel also fell victim to this reorganization, as well as Veronica Mars and several other good shows.

91. MJ - June 22, 2011

@ 89. From Garretts own mouth:

“What more does a guy have to do to get promoted to Lieutenant for frak’s sake?”

“During the fourth season, I called writer/producer Brannon Braga and asked him why my character hadn’t received a promotion yet. His response? “Well, somebody’s gotta be the ensign.” Geez, thanks. Thanks for nothing.”

” My first thought was, “That’s not right! What the heck was Berman talking about? Was he pulling our legs? The human characters shouldn’t be forced to muffle their emotions. We were human, not androids!” ”

Certainly sounds like bitching to me.

When a second-tier Trek actor like this goes public with a bitch-fest like this, I think it is unrealistic for you to think that those of us posting here are going to take it easy on him.

92. Will_H - June 22, 2011

I can agree with him up to the idea of a Voyager movie. Honestly its the last series that should have gotten one. I loved Voyager (well parts of it at least) but it was a finished story. And in a way they’re lucky for that. Everything else (even TNG in its movie form) was left hanging to some degree or other. If anything I’d like to see an Enterprise Romulan War straight to DVD movie, or another TNG.

93. MJ - June 22, 2011

@90 “Also: to those talking about why Enterprise was canceled, despite popular opinion, it wasn’t due to ratings/quality of the show.”

That is simply not true. When Enterprise began early in Season 1, its ratings were comparable to the average for Voyager. However, by the end of Season 2, Enterprise’s ratings were at 2/3 the level of Voyager, and they never improved over the remaining seasons. This is a fact — not my opinion.

94. NuKirk - June 22, 2011

#91–again that is not bitching. Bitching is UNFOUNDED harsh criticism. What Garrett is doing is voicing a JUSTIFIED harsh criticism. As I recall, Jonathan Frakes, Brent Spiner, LeVar Burton and Marina Sirtis had similar gripes with Berman about Nemesis; would you put them into the same category as Garrett?

#93…the ratings fallout was a factor, BUT, the UPN/WB merger was announced at the same time they decided to cancel Enterpise, which was just gaining it’s footing again. Also: the Friday night death slot they gave Enterprise at the end didn’t help either. A tactic I think was done to deliberately tank the show by forcing ratings to decline, likely early prep for the impending announcement of the merger.

95. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

The whole Marquee thing joining with the Starfleet officers to go home is a lol

Do you think that real life terrorists would join Naval officers to go home if they were lost at sea? The Naval officers would capture or kill the terrorists before trying to find a way home.

The Terrorists would try to buddy up to the Naval officers and blow them up in their sleep.

There was too much technobabble and the captain just seemed to come off as a know it all, was quite annoying.

There was no character development that made TOS and TNG great, TOS had the trio of Kirk, Spock and McCoy, TNG had Geordi and Data, Picard and Riker, Voyager had some holographic doctor that wishes to be human with some who cares alien female nurse?

The entire show concept failed, who wants to watch a bunch of navel officers and terrorists try to find their way home and whine about being lost in space for 7 years?

What was Berman or Bragga thiniking?

96. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

A better show concept would be a seal team six starfleet group that dealt with exploration and hostile space baddies.

Go back to the cops in space style show, wagon train to the stars and forget about new spins on star trek like ds9, voyager or enterprise. The masses want to see character development with exploration of space and human issues, not some political or war allegory with religion tosses in or terrorists working with officers to go home boo hoo or a fill in the blanks cross the t’s and dot the i’s show like enterprise. The whole NASA crew wearing Enterprise type uniforms was lol also, imagine if they wore TOS or TNG uniforms c’mon get real.

97. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

GW should have known the risk of accepting a role in a Star Trek TV Series and with that comes being typecasted and worst is when the show doesn’t do well, where do you go from there? Your career is downhill and you will be doing Star Trek conventions for life.

The only actors so far to have flourished after their Star Trek career was maybe Patrick Stewart, William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy, along with of course the ST2009 crew.

98. MJ - June 23, 2011

@94 “#91–again that is not bitching. Bitching is UNFOUNDED harsh criticism. What Garrett is doing is voicing a JUSTIFIED harsh criticism.”

Again, sounds like he is bitching to me no matter how you want to spin it. Especially given this guy was consistently late to his scenes and was a known malcontent on the show.

99. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

#98

There are 2 sides to the story and we got Garrett’s side, that’s the only side I need to know as I know Berman and Braga are clueless.

I applaud Garrett Wang for telling it as it is, and I can assure you MJ that he knew more of the drama than you :) cut him some slack, he’s typecasted and stuck doing vegas conventions for life, at least he got to star in a regular tv series and if he invested his money for those 7 years he should have a comfortable retirement.

100. NuKirk - June 23, 2011

#98 honestly it sounds like you’re one of those ‘Berman could do no wrong’ types..so what if Garrett was a malcontent on set and was late to set? Given what Berman was up to I’d say the truth is Garrett wouldn’t put up with Berman trying to destroy Star Trek and decided to revolt as best he could. Ever heard of civil disobedience? Honestly I’m surprised more people didn’t.

101. chrisfawkes.com - June 23, 2011

The guy had to knock back Seven of Nine.

Not only does he have a right to hate berman for that but that one scene took voyager out of the realm of science fiction to science fantasy. In no reality could a heterosexual male have resisted.

102. MJ - June 23, 2011

@100. No, I can’t stand Berman. But I don’t respect Wang either.

103. NuKirk - June 23, 2011

#102–listen I’m not mindlessly praising Garrett either here…but I do commend the guy regardless of the rest for calling Berman out on his having a complete disrespect for the people who worked for him, for Berman not caring about creating a quality product, for not giving a damn about what Trek stood for (the late great Gene Roddenberry gave Berman control and look what he did– :S) and for acting like a complete, pardon the pun, Wang-wad on set consistently. If the production of the show had been like Starfleet the combined casts and crews would have either mutinied or petitioned Paramount to have Berman removed as Captain of Trek, the latter they still should have done.

104. MJ - June 23, 2011

OK, I don’t think we are really that far apart then.

105. NuKirk - June 23, 2011

#95 your logic regarding The Maquis is flawed. A) The Maquis were NOTHING like Al Qaeda. They were Federation citizens who the Federation screwed over to protect a treaty with a species who later waged war on the entire Quadrant. The Maquis were RIGHT in their struggle; they were more like the ancient Native Americans, as embodied by Chakotay. In retrospect, the Maquis were likely the secret saviors of the blinded by politics Federation as the Maquis struggle woke everyone up to the true duplicitousness of the Cardassian government, who were the ones actually like Al Qaeda. But I suppose by your reasoning the Federation should’ve joined The Cardassians in their Occupation of Bajor. 21st century real world thinking does not apply to a fictional 24th century situation and upon a fictional organization based on more evolved thinking.

106. NuKirk - June 23, 2011

(continued) but back to your point: I think it’s more likely for Starfleet to team with Maquis who AGREED TO ABIDE BY STARFLEET RULES FOR MUTUAL SURVIVAL…then fir the Voyager crew to say eff it and let pigheadedness destroy all parties involved. But I do agree that poorly developed characters and a lack of Firefly-like carefreeness doomed Voyager.

107. Captain derp. - June 23, 2011

Loose lips sink ships Harry. He gave a tv guide interview that ruined his chances then and he is still kicking himself in the nuts with interviews now. You cannot bad mouth people in that profession and not expect it to come back and bite you.

108. Cmdr. Lucius Devlin - June 23, 2011

I have to agree with Garret. And I also think VOY was way too boring. In retrospect I think I’d liked the “R. Moore” approach better. To take a chance and make VOY exceptional dark and full of conflicts between the characters far away from federation space.

109. Jack - June 23, 2011

I’m thinking he’s the only guy on earth bothered by Harry Kim not getting a promotion.

The underplay stuff is interesting, though, because, yeah, so many of the characters were incredibly, bizarrely dull. But Neelix ( overplayed, I guess) was more irritating than alien.

I know they all wanted that Voyager movie, but who would’ve gone to see it, other than us? These were never really characters that I wanted to see again. And their arcs, what there were of them (Janeway gets increasingly cranky, Torres and Paris chemistry-free relationship) always seemed pretty arbitrary. The relationships on, say, DS9 generally worked because they seemed to develop over time and the actors and writers had time, or at least it seemed that way, to give a few clues and set things up, and the characters seemed emotionally invested. There was chemistry. Even the friendships (Bashir and O’Brien) felt more natural, compared to Voyager.

I always thought Kim had a lot of promise, as a character, in the pilot… but
they never really did anything with him. I’d kind of hoped, back then, that they
were going to make him gay, and maybe he could quietly crush on Paris (which
seemed to be happening in those early episodes) and there’d at least be
something sort of interesting going on.

On the whole wrath ofBerman thing, i’d always wondered if Michael Dorn got some payback after First Contact — in an interview or two (where the focus was kind ofon Worf being an action hero) he was predicting,maybe jokingly, that Worf was going to command DS9 or that he wanted to see him clash with Sisko… and it seemed like after that, he got a lot less play on DS9 (post Jadzia) and in the next gen movies. I can’t sleep, so instead I peddle tame conspiracy theories.

110. Paul Fitz - June 23, 2011

I love how there are so many on here who are bashing Voyager, It seems to be a pastime with them. These are the same people who would loose their rag if anyone crapped all over their favourite series.
I loved Voyager, warts and all (except Neelix, I have my limits).
but I personally cannot watch the majority of TOS or ENT. Am I gonna say they were bad, the worst or a failure? No, because they have their fans, just like any other show.
So the next time you like to rip on Voyager while saying why (insert trek series here) is better, I’ll just read on thinking of “Spocks Brain”, “Up the long Ladder”, “If wishes were horses”, “These are the Voyages” and then remembering that Voyager had its faults too “Threshold”, but I still loved it and wont bother anyone by claiming its better, but it was different, and to each their own.

111. denny cranium - June 23, 2011

Its funny how when we all get nostalgic for TOS and TNG we forget some of the weak episodes that were made.
I watched all the Trek series when they ran and they all made duds.
All of the series had their episodes where I thought to myself- “they got it! Thats Star Trek.”
Star Trek was on TV for 18 years consecutively. All good things (no pun intended) had to come to an end.
JJ Abrams has been quoted as saying Berman and co were only interested in maintaining the current fan base.
Maybe its the idea of Star Trek that keeps us coming back. The hope that this movie or episode they will get it right
In my opinion- JJ and crew have figured out Trek.

112. P Technobabble - June 23, 2011

It’s understandable for fans to be harsh at times. But it’s the degree to which they get harsh that boggles…

Wang is like any other actor seeking a role they can really sink themselves into, expressing the depths of their abilities and skills. Can you blame him for that? It is pretty obvious that VOY had some serious issues as a dramatic-action-adventure show. I’m in agreement that a lack of emotional depth from the characters was a major flaw. And I don’t think the aliens came off as any more alien… they behaved pretty much like everyone else on the show.
VOY was a show that paid a lot of nods to past Treks, but it had no real sense of direction — in spite of the fact that their direction was to get home. Like many others here, I feel that VOY’s original premise was abandoned, apparently in an attempt to recapture what TNG had. If this crew were truly lost in space, facing tremendous obstacles, struggling for every moment of their survival, it would have made for a far more interesting program.
I actually liked the actors/characters on VOY, but they had very little to do, they had very little to work with. When you see one alien species in their way, you’ve seen ‘em all.
Space is a very dangerous place, no matter what kind of technology you have, and this never came through. The determination and passion of the human spirit in jeopardy never came through. Too bad….

113. Sebastian S. - June 23, 2011

# 98. And all the others who are calling Wang full of s**t, and accusing a man giving his opinion of ‘bitching’?

You mean to tell me NONE of you on this thread have EVER complained about work? Wow. What a loyal bunch of good, stout, joyful, happy workers we have here. Never ONCE complained about your bosses? Never once second guessed your bosses’ decisions?
Now THAT’S full of s**t….

Come on; if he said all was well on VGR, you would accuse him of whitewashing. If he tells the truth? He’s accused of aimless bitching. Look, he gave his opinion. After that, he doesn’t owe anyone a damn thing. The show’s been off the air for 10 years, and from most of the posts here no one likes Rick Berman or the show anyway. Just who’s feelings is he hurting, anyway?

I mean, does he owe someone here money or what?

114. falcon - June 23, 2011

Star Trek: Voyager was just another spaceship show, which borrowed heavily from two other shows – Star Trek itself, and Lost In Space. There was no originality, no passion (hey, come on, people, these were explorers – it wasn’t just a job for them), and certainly no creativity (after all, with the advances in prosthetic makeup and CGI, why did every AOTW [alien of the week] have to look human?). Berman and Braga single-handedly sunk the franchise, to the point where a reboot was the only option it had of staying alive.

115. captain_neill - June 23, 2011

As I said many times before, I still think a lot of great Trek was produced under Berman’s watch. Yes he made mistakes and in retrospect he should have taken more risks, those risks paid off in DS9 but that was due to Ira Behr.

I enjoyed Voyager but I would consider it my least favourite of the shows. I do think the ship should have looked a lot more run down and damaged due to not being near a starbase and I think it suffered from becoming The Janeway and Seven show, with occasional guest sppots by the Doctor. I think the conflict with Starfleet and Maquis should have been touched upon more than it was, there should have been more friction between the crews than there was in the show.

However, despite these flaws and missed opportunities I felt Voyager was great a the SF concept ideas and stories. Some great stories where in the show. Episodes such as Death Wish, Future’s End, Year of Hell, Timeless, Living Witness, Equinox, Bride of Chaotica where great fun.

I do think it is unfair that Voyager gets some unfair bashing because there is good stuff amongst it.

In regards to Enterprise, it had potential but I still think it was a great show, especially when Manny Coto came on board. If th Season 2 had been more like Season 4 it could have got a full run.

I was skeptical about Enterprise when it was announced but now I think it was an worthwhile attempt and it had Scott Bakula who was a genre favourite.

Its a shame Enterprise got cancelled as it was getting great.

116. Sebastian S. - June 23, 2011

115.

My thoughts on DS9 and ENT exactly.
And yes, Voyager did have a dozen or so (maybe more; it’s been a while) of episodes that were pretty good. It is still my least favorite ST spinoff, but to slam the entire series as being crap is being willfully forgetful. There were some gems to be mined there as well; otherwise none of us would’ve watched it and it wouldn’t have lasted 7 years.

And I for one, value Wang’s frankness about his working conditions; if he didn’t like some (or most) of his tenure there he should be allowed to express that. Again, I don’t understand all the acid dripping tongues here wagging in his direction.
Sounds like a mob….

117. VZX - June 23, 2011

I am not a big fan of Voyager, but I watched the show.

But, I agree with Wang that there should have been a movie released in theatres for its ending. They could have made the movie on the cheap like they did for The Wrath of Khan, but make it more cinematic than the TV show. It would not have been a block-buster, but so what, if done carefully it still could have turned a small profit. AND the fans would have been happy.

118. Dom - June 23, 2011

The underplaying issue has been flagged up a few times. It was deeply idiotic. TNG-era human characters come over as the equivalent of the spod who sits at the back of the classroom who has no sense of humour, which makes him think he’s intelligent and sophisticated, when in fact he’s thick!

I always cite the Encounter at Farpoint novelisation as a good example of how much better the 80s-2000s Treks could have been had the characters been able to cut loose a bit. Read the scene where Jean-Luc tells Beverley that he contested her appointment as CMO. On TV portrayal is arch and rather cold. In the book, they have a full on row.

I don’t know if the underplaying was also to do with the deranged, scary utopian ideals that certain people in Trek’s management bought into, but as the new film, with its warmth and good humour, has proven, Berman was thicky at the back of the classroom!!

119. Jay - June 23, 2011

I think Mr. Wang needs to just stop talking. He didn’t get a promotion? IT’S A FRICKIN TV SHOW!!!!!! Be glad you were gainfully employed for seven years, for god’s sake.

Why is it that the weirdest people end up acting on Star Trek? There are real oddballs in almost every cast?

120. Crusade2267 - June 23, 2011

Am I the only one on here who really liked Voyager? It was a lot more fun than DS9, with some great character moments, a wonderful mothering relationship between Janeway and the crew, and an arc story that carried through the whole show from premier to finale.

121. The Original Spock's Brain - June 23, 2011

@ 6. Schnotty

LOL!

122. Jai - June 23, 2011

I thought Garrett Wang’s acting in the “Timeless” episode was great — his best performance in the whole of Voyager, in my opinion. He really got a chance to cut loose as the older, hardened, cynical version of Harry Kim.

And the episode itself was superb; right up there with the “Year of Hell” two-parter. Perhaps either of those should have been turned into a full-length Voyager theatrical movie instead.

123. captain_neill - June 23, 2011

122

Timeless was a great episode and Garret Wang was excellent in it.

Also met Garret at the last con and he is really cool and a lot of fun on stage.

124. Trekboi - June 23, 2011

dead delivery of humanity- that does explain it all
Right on wang!

125. Horatio - June 23, 2011

Only in Trek fandom can you find fans who gripe about Berman and Braga and then gripe about the actor or actress that gripes about Berman and Braga.

Good Gawd.

Wang is dead on right. For years now fans have commented on the blandness/sameness of VGER and ENT. The producers promised something different but each series ended up just more of the same. That is why the franchise became fatigued. And it was under Berman’s watch. He must take some accountability.

Wang is hardly the first of the VGER cast to complain. Robert Beltran, anyone?

126. sean - June 23, 2011

#90

Angel was cancelled a full year prior to Enterprise, and 2 years before the CW merger. One had little to do with the other.

127. Mr. Zoom - June 23, 2011

“I was the first actor in Star Trek history to be denied the chance to direct.”

Remind me, again, when Nichelle Nichols was given the opportunity to direct an episode of Trek?

128. Captain Ransom - June 23, 2011

ensign kim was one of the lamest characters in trek history. i still think he should have been an ensign on the final episode in the future. that would have been hilarious. i think captain kim was an outrageous stretch. out of all the characters, he is the least likely to reach the rank of captain. i can’t even see him as first officer.

129. Katie G. - June 23, 2011

WE’RE ALL JUST ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKS.

Re: #120. Crusade2267

No, you’re not alone. I enjoyed Voyager very much. Loved each of the series. Each series had it’s bombs and it’s triumphs.

Let’s not forget that we have no proof of what Garret says. I’d like to think he’s an honest person but, WE WEREN’T THERE. We didn’t witness any of this. How do we know whether it’s the truth or just a bitter rant by someone who didn’t get his way on a show? (Oh, and that never happens…) So it’s crazy to jump on the bandwagon and sound off when we don’t even know if it’s the truth.

IMHO

He also once complained that in the series finale, everyone else had to age and look terrible except for Janeway (and maybe Torres). That surprised me. Either he was whining because he didn’t look good or because they didn’t want to look bad. Garrett, you’re really not doing yourself any favours by making these comments. Why do you care? Something is really bothering this guy because he’s still talking about it. Wonder what’s really going on in that head of his?

What an opportunity he had — to be paid to act. For 7 years. He should be really grateful. Most of us don’t even get our 15 minutes. Garrett, please don’t turn into Wil Wheaton.

ktg

130. Katie G. - June 23, 2011

P.S.

BTW… Voyager wasn’t the only series that didn’t make it to the big screen. DS9 didn’t. Nor did Enterprise. Only 2 of them did.

ktg

131. Captain Ransom - June 23, 2011

i can’t see how anyone could possibly think that DS9 and ENT were better than VOY. at least VOY felt like star trek. ENT seemed more like stargate and had no interesting characters except the captain and engineer. DS9 sucked hard right out of the gate. i remember watching the first episode while TNG was still on the air and thinking ‘what the hell is this crap? a space station that never goes anywhere? star trek is about where no one has gone before!’ they had to bring two TNG characters on the show just to keep it floating – something VOY never had to do.

132. BaronByng - June 23, 2011

Ya know, the problem with trying to talk rationally about the quality of Voyager is the fact that most Trek fans only watch Star Trek and/or other franchise sci-fi shows.

In terms of actual quality of acting, out of all of the shows, TOS was best (yes, Shatnerisms and all) because the characters were trained, experienced stage performers who understood how to imbue their roles with depth and subtlety. The directors knew how to bring this out of their cast, and the writers weren’t afraid to lay off the expositional dialogue and leave things unsaid, knowing that grown-ups would “get it.”

At its best, TNG had episodes, especially towards the later seasons, that not only approached but surpassed these, but it was rare that they could resist the need for lengthy exposition and technobabble.

Voyager had all the exposition and technobabble, but none of the subtlety in acting, writing or directing. Most of the characters came off as one-note, cardboard cutouts with very little to define them. Paris = cocky with chip on shoulder, Torres = constantly scowling, The EMH = Frasier Crane, Mr. Vulcan = wooden and logical, Kim = wooden boy scout, Neelix = annoyingly perky, Kes = nothing really, Seven = the aspergers girl in a catsuit, Chakotay = mr “i must make a token objection here or I’m not doing my job”, and janeway = Katherine Hepburn In Space. Honestly, the one character out of the whole series that I want to know more about, who had an honest sense of humour, who hinted at having hidden depths and motivations, was the Borg Queen…

Compare the depth of these characterizations with those of the cast / characters of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or the all-too-short Firefly. The exposition was limited to “It’s a magic-ray-shooting-thing! Watch out!’ but the emotional rollercoasters were vividly depicted, and even though it was a series, you never knew if a beloved character might actually be killed for good. Plus, they only rarely hit the reset button at the end of the episode: things had implications and reverberations.

Write me a Trek tv series like that, and maybe there’ll be a new audience for it. Maybe Garrett Wang could surprise us all and be good in it.

133. Cheezyspam - June 23, 2011

Maybe it’s just me, but I kinda feel like GW only wanted a movie because he’s an out of work actor who’s only real claim to fame in this day and age is to bad mouth a series that isn’t well received by the fans in the 1st place. It’s almost like he’s just telling us what we want to hear and giving us more of a reason to hate how Berman screwed up the series.

IMO, VOY deserved a lot of things it never got (writing, direction, character development) but a movie is not one of them… if anything I think the series needed better closure. Even if you hated the show and still watched it all the way through you have to admit the abrupt ending was not worth the 7 long years it took to get there.

All we know from that entire crew is that Janeway is an admiral for some reason… and Picard is still running around as Captain because… ??

134. Bruce Banner - June 23, 2011

Correct me if I’m wrong, but in seven years in the gamma quadrant, Harry Kim never got laid. Wouldn’t anyone be bitching and full of stress?

135. Aussie Ian - June 23, 2011

It seems that the same arguements keep coming up again and again about the pro’s and con’s of Voyager and its crew adn by extension the writing of the characters by Mr Berman and Braga. As I can see the tipping jar let me put forth my 2 cents.

Lazy writing is lazy writing no matter who the actor is speaking the lines, or director behind the camera. Point in case: the finale of Voyager…..

and before anyone yells SPOILER ALERT it has been 10 years since it aired!

Plot of Endgame:

One crew member dead (Chakotay), one crew member in mental pain (Tuvok)

An experimental ship gets stolen by Admiral Janeway against Starfleet Orders, so that she can save her crew because of the bond that they share.

The Borg hold Admiral Janeway captive, wanting Voyager to surrender

The Borg queen is defeated one on one by Janeway’s cunning, allowing the Voyager crew to escape.

Timeline reset, Chakotay and Tuvok fine now!

so?

So ….. tell me if this is familiar ….. Star Trek III : The Search for Spock

One crewmember dead (Spock), one in mental pain (McCoy)

The Enterprise gets stolen by Admiral Kirk against Starfleet Orders, so that he can save Spock because of the bond that they share.

The Klingons hold Kirk’s son David Marcus captive, wanting Voyager to surrender

Commander kruge is defeated one on one by Kirk’s cunning, allowing the Voyager crew to escape.

Spock found, katra re-installed and all is fine now!

Familiar yes? Seen it before? Yes you have, the plot of “The Menagerie”

Captain Pike confined to blinking light wheelchair and in mental pain.

The Enterprise gets stolen by Mr Spock against Starfleet Orders, so that he can save his former Captain from anguish because of the bond that they share.

The Talosians hold Pike captive, and won’t release Enterprise

The Talosians are defeated by Pike’s cunning (and No1’s Pre-phaser/laser on overload), allowing the Enterprise crew to escape.

Pike allowed to live on Talos IV (AKA Fantasy Island), no more anguish, all fine now!

If the best the writers could come up with is a Voyager re-write of a Harve Bennet re-write of a Gene Roddenberry re-write of the Cage, which was the REJECTED pilot, no wonder fans were left disappointed.

By comparison, the Enterprise finale was no “All Good Things” but it has a stack more originality than this, even though it was written by RB and BB.

136. P Technobabble - June 23, 2011

While I liked DS9 a lot, my criticism has always been that it really didn’t need to have the name Star Trek attached to it. In terms of what we all knew and loved as ST, DS9 was not about seeking, exploring or boldly going. It was a show that tried to say something about politics, religion, and so forth. The characters were somewhat more developed than those in VOY or ENT, in my opinion.
So, while I somewhat agree with everyone who says DS9 wasn’t Star Trek, I don’t agree that it was an awful show, overall. It was no worse than any other Trek show, except some like it more, some like it less, some not at all… to each his/her own…

137. MJ - June 23, 2011

@112. “It’s understandable for fans to be harsh at times. But it’s the degree to which they get harsh that boggles…”

With a couple of exceptions, I don’t think anyone here is being anymore harsh then Wang was in the article. This is not a “feel good” article from Mr, Wang, so you should not expect feel good responses from a lot of us here. And in past interviews Mr. Wang has whined about all the the attention that Mulgrew and Picardo got, and mentioned that he fired multiple publicists becuase they could not get him enough interviews. The key is a Jerk, and I don’t respect him or believe what he is saying. It that makes me harsh, then so be it.

@119. “I think Mr. Wang needs to just stop talking. He didn’t get a promotion? IT’S A FRICKIN TV SHOW!!!!!! Be glad you were gainfully employed for seven years, for god’s sake.”

Dude, that is just so harsh. How can you be so mean to Mr Wang? This is just awful. LOL (note: sarchasm)

138. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

#137

Didnt the tos cast suffer from the same complex regarding shatners limelight?

139. gingerly - June 23, 2011

lol those first two comments…

But yeah, no other ST franchises should get a get crack before DS9, and we all know how likely that is.

140. SciFiGuy - June 23, 2011

There are lots of Trek actors who haven’t directed!!! Nichelle Nichols, Geirge Takei, James Doohan, Marina Sirtis…I could go on and on! Garrett — the fact is, Voyager did not deserve a movie! The writing was derivative and the ratings were not good! As others have pointed out — only the Borg saved the show!

Plus — Voyager had an ENDING!! You got back to Earth! Exactly what would a movie be about?!

Crazy!!!

141. Red Dead Ryan - June 23, 2011

I wonder if Garrett Wang hangs out with George Takei trading Trek stories? ;-)

142. Anthony Pascale - June 23, 2011

Guys,

I know there is no consensus on Star Trek Voyager, but lets not get personal and so nasty

143. The TOS Purist aka The Purolator - June 23, 2011

What is everyone complaining about? I’d rather hear an actor be painfully obvious with his opinions instead of being fake and gushing over people that he doesn’t really like in real life. I hate fake suck-ups. Go Garrett!

On a side note, I always wondered why the characters in the TNG Treks always seemed so wooden and boring, especially compared to the realistic, human characters of TOS…but now I know. They did it on PURPOSE!!

144. Thorny - June 23, 2011

127…I think Mr. Wang means he asked to direct and was turned down. Ms. Nichols probably never asked.

143… I think it was both mediocre actors (especially Frakes and McFadden) and the now revealed “make the human characters more bland” instruction. Combine weak actors and bland characters and we get very good descriptions of Riker, Crusher, Chakotay, Kim, Mayweather, and Reed.

145. Mark Anton - June 23, 2011

I wish we could have had the Sulu Series instead of Voyager or Enterprise. That seems to be the real missed opportunity in Star Trek history– not the lack of a Voyager film.

146. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

Its pretty tough for asians to do well in hollywood if you dont know martial arts or have lots or humour.

Aside from bruce lee, jackie chan or jet li which asian would a hollywood producer go to and say, i want him for my next blockbuster.

Linda Park is hot btw, looks like a twin of my wife :)

147. Plum - June 23, 2011

It occurs to me, regarding B&B (or ‘the Bees’), that Voyager would have been a far worse show if the actors didn’t fight for their roles. And they did, ’cause, you know, the Bees. Enterprise was shockingly bad. How producers could make Scott Bacula look like an asshole boggles the mind. And I could go on. Oooooh yes I could. Anyone remember me from around the second half of Ents 1st season on Trekbbs? lol ;p

Bottom line…
Brannon is a talented writer and show runner but he’s, er, bossy.
Rick is a talented producer who should never be allowed to write a show.

148. Canon Schmanon - June 23, 2011

74. Vultan –

The two Chiggy Von Richthofen episodes of Space Above and Beyond were superlative! McQueen’s battle with him in the second episode was one of those incredible self-defining moments you rarely see in TV. It ranks with any of the best episodes of any series.

132. BaronByng –

Exactly! There was more character development in 13 episodes of Firefly than in all seven seasons of Voyager. Too often in Trek the actors were just there as instruments to carry the plot. Whatever happened to the “Human Adventure”? That’s why I loved DS9 above all the Treks, because the characters changed and grew through its evolution.

For those people who complain about us criticizing Voyager and Trek in general, I say lighten up. If you enjoyed the shows without viewing them critically, then good for you. We are all different. Frankly, I wish I could have enjoyed the shows as much as you appeared to, but I saw too many flaws to be an unquestioning loyalist. The way I see it, if you can’t see what’s wrong, you can’t see what’s right, either. And I saw a lot of “right” in Star Trek that has kept me a fan.

As for Garret Wang, the guy has every right to speak up about the show and how he felt about it. He’s not saying he wished he’d never been on the show, he’s simply saying that he wished it could have been better. So do I, so do many of us here.

149. CanadianShane - June 23, 2011

I know im coming in late in the game, but Voyager doesn’t have what you need to be the tent pole in the Star Trek franchise, it just doesnt, it’s a CBS special done once a year, now that would be an awesome way to fill a need.

150. FACTCHECKER - June 23, 2011

Match ups I’d like to see….

Harry Kim vs. Ruk the Android
Harry Kim vs. Simon Van Gelder
Harry Kim vs. The Gorn
Harry Kim vs. Khan
Harry Kim vs. Lazurus
Hary Kim vs. The Kaylar
Harry Kim vs. The Space Hippies

151. Nano - June 23, 2011

Just confirming what we all knew of Berman & Co. They SUCKED!

152. MJ - June 23, 2011

Remember,

“Everybody have fun tonight….everybody (Garret) Wang Chung tonight.”

:-)

153. captain_neill - June 23, 2011

151

They made mistakes but I think a lot of people are too harsh about them.

154. captain_neill - June 23, 2011

Why are people so unkind to these actors. Some of the comments in these message boards I find very hurtful.

155. Chris - June 23, 2011

Wang is right. Berman was a bad influence. I found the acting on Voyager to be wooden, the dialogue predictable, and the characters (with the exception of the Doctor & 7 of 9) to be boring. You could almost predict the next from the majority of characters. So this was not ENTIRELY the actors fault, but the show could have been cast better (Tim Russ’ awkward eyebrow movements were annoying – he tried to be Spock, but while Nimoy had a fluidity to his movements and dialogue, Russ was wooden all the way).

And sombody sould put together a reel of Chakotay’s range – every line is delivered in the same monotone, whether he was trying to bed Seven or leading an attack on an enemy ship.

Berman also had a hand in the bland music.

Can you tell I’m not all that fond of the show?

156. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

I am trying to imagine a “Voyager The Motion Picture” in my head and I can’t wrap my head around it.

If you toss 300million at a kick ass script and have Christopher Nolan and James Cameron direct it, I am still having a hard time imagining how this movie would work. Then again nobody imagined how kick ass Star Trek The Motion Picture looked with that cheesy 60s TOS everyone eventually loved. Who knows maybe a Voyager The Motion Picture would work 20 years from now.

157. MJ - June 23, 2011

@154. Did you read the article. Wang himself is taking down Berman. And Wang pretty much hates everything about Voyager, and was a malcontent on the show. So of course the responses here are not going to be all that nice either. Captain Nell, if this is too much for you, I recommend you skip posting here and move onto the next news story. This one, by its nature, is not going to be one where we all sign Kumbaya and celebrate IDIC.

158. OLLEY OLLEY OLLEY - June 23, 2011

That fella is paranoid.

159. Keachick (rose pinenut) - June 23, 2011

I’m sorry, but some of this feels like “Let’s air our dirty laundry and shovel our trash at a Trek convention” stuff. There seems to be always someone managing to give a Trek show a sour note. Maybe I don’t think too much about the episodes of Star Trek that I watch – to me, it was/is great audio/visual entertainment for the most part. Anyway, too tired for this…

160. captainkirk - June 23, 2011

I would have loved a Voyager movie. Ot perhaps even better, a ten episode arc like DS9 ended with. Too bad they didn’t get Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore to take over once DS9 ended.

161. gingerly - June 23, 2011

@146

O_O …All this time, I thought you were a woman, for some reason…

But then again, I you still could be. :)

162. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

#161

LOL

163. MJ - June 23, 2011

Gingerly, I’m not getting it? Wouldn’t you know if you were somethought’s wife?

164. Magic_Al - June 23, 2011

^62. “Yeah, how bizarre that an actor would want his character to grow and change instead of stagnating.”

Stagnation of Ensign Kim’s career was a story point, a fact of the character’s situation. When a job has to be done on a lost ship, the only way to get promoted is if someone above you gets killed.

That should not limit the writers’ ability to come up with stories about Kim. Kim has off-duty time. There are other people on the ship and aliens along the ship’s route. There were many possible suggestions to improve Garrett Wang’s role on the show. Changing Kim’s rank doesn’t obviously help. Uhura was a lieutenant and later a commander, but Nichelle Nichols’ role never got bigger because of that. Chekov’s promotion to commander got Walter Koenig a memorable part in The Wrath of Khan, but after that story he went back to doing essentially what Chekov had done as an ensign. Changing a rank doesn’t change the basic roles in the ensemble.

Remember the final shot of Star Trek VI of the whole cast on the bridge? Well, the whole cast except George Takei, because he’d got Sulu promoted off the ship.

165. GarySeven - June 23, 2011

Anthony,
Was their any reason my comment was removed?

166. MJ - June 23, 2011

@165. He’s trying to protect your cover so that you have a better chance of sabotaging nuclear missile platforms and can save the Earth.

Whoops, I really should not have just said that.

167. cd - June 23, 2011

38 – “To be a Star Trek Fan means you accept it all, the good, the bad and the ugly but you don’t rant about it!”
Really? In what universe? Certainly not this one. To rant about it is practically the definition of being a Star Trek fan!
>;>}

168. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

#161

Im a male and love woman, are my posts that feminine? :)

169. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

I would have like to see Garrett Wang played a Vulcan and have Tom Paris try to make him laugh and be more human. The holodoc should have been captain as Picards brother or something, Neelix and Kes bartender and hostess they picked up at some alien bar fist fight. Instead of being in delta quadrant, I would have had them in unknown galaxy and wouldnt have had the marquess in the show. My trio would have been holocaptain, vulcan garrett wang and tom paris. I would have had Janeway as ships medic.

Voyager would have looked like a cross between excellsior and enterprise a, a little bigger. No borg but just new civs and original stories and sci fi ideas, like mining a planet for its electromagnetic waves, moving solar systems and seeding planets with life. Instead of finding a way home, they are happy to explore and accepted their fate never to return home, or finding own galaxy within first cliff hanger season and new arcs for s2.

170. Jack - June 23, 2011

118. Now that you mention Crusher, she was the only one who had spunk first season, then she was replaced… and came back a bit Stepford-y and muted.

171. somethoughts - June 23, 2011

I wonder how the enterprise d would look like now in the jjuniverse, would be curious to see the inside and outside of jjenterprise d.

172. Jack - June 23, 2011

The view of DS9 not being Star Trek because it had episodes about politics, ethics, some harder sci fi-ish ideas and religion is, well, interesting on a site where a lot of folks have complained that Trek 09 isn’t Trek because…

And poor Wang is not doing a potential career of telling stories to Germans any favors in that clip posted here…

173. Jack - June 23, 2011

PS. I just read the full interview — dude comes across a little better. I guess I should actually read these things before I comment…

174. MJ - June 23, 2011

Sing along everyone: “Everybody have fun tonight….everybody (Garrett) Wang Chung tonight.” LOL

175. Jeff O'Connor - June 24, 2011

I for one love his suggestion on the movie idea. The pacing for the finale would have been much cooler, filled with all sorts of better characterization.

Although I’d still get rid of the Seven/Chakotay thing, but that’s just me. And a lot of other people. And Jeri Ryan. And Robert Beltran. And you know. Everyone.

176. James T. West - June 24, 2011

Watched the first episode/pilot…thought it was good. Followup episodes were boring and repetitive. Tried to watch the Capt. Sulu episode, and couldn’t make it past the first act. Tried to watch the finale, couldn’t make it past 20-25 min.

The reason Paramount didn’t produce a Voyager movie is that no one would pay $7 to see it. Its not profitable.

177. Horatio - June 24, 2011

I still think Paris and Kim were having a fling. Just saying.

#155- “Berman also had a hand in the bland music”. OMG, yes. The music in TNG, DS9, VGR & ENT is all so enterchangable and BORING. BLAND BLAND BLAND. Don’t get me wrong, I still love, in varying degrees, all of the series – but why oh why in the name of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster did the music in all of the shows have to be the friggin same? (yes, I know there are a few exceptional standouts, but I think you all get what i’m trying to say). Answer: Berman.

178. Leatherman - June 24, 2011

Why do people look down on actors who criticize their show from time to time? It is their full time job. Are you going to tell me you never complain about your boss or the policies your company creates? It’s human nature, and actors are just humans going to work every day like you and me. The fact that we watch these shows and connect with them on some level does not give us the right to harshly judge everything the actors say and do.
I agree with #6, that does explain it all. I thought the premise of Voyager was a great new way to do Star Trek. Maybe it could have been done better, but can you name any one TV series that did everything right for it’s entire run?
I think Mr. Wang was well within his right to be concerned about the development of his character, just as you and I would be concerned about our own jobs. I know I want a promotion at work!

179. MJ - June 24, 2011

@177. The theme music for DS9, especially the opening, is outstanding. Agree with you on Voyager and Enterprise.

180. MJ - June 24, 2011

@178 “Are you going to tell me you never complain about your boss or the policies your company creates?”

Try going public multiple times, attacking your boss and companies you’ve worked for, and see how well your career goes. You are living in a dream world, my friend.

181. somethoughts - June 24, 2011

Just look at Charlie Sheen, in order to climb the corporate work mountain you have to keep your mouth shut and smile as you eat the crap.

One of Napoleon Hill’s laws of success, do more than you are paid for and develop a pleasing personality.

182. Katie G. - June 24, 2011

Re: #134. Bruce Banner

Okay. Here goes.

In Season 2, Episode #5 – “Non Sequitur”, he was living with his fiancée (Libby) in a timeline where he DIDN’T get selected for Voyager but to the Starfleet Corps of Engineers.

In Season 5, Episode #17 – “The Disease” they were helping a xenophobic species (the Varro) who needed help with their warp drive and Harry met a woman, Derran Tal, and they ended up together.

In Season 6, Episode #18 “Ashes to Ashes” a girl he had a crush on (Lyndsay Ballard) got killed but was resurrected by the Kobali and returned to Voyager. They ended up together.

Can’t find any others but there were some we probably weren’t told about.

Well, you DID say “correct me if I’m wrong…”

ktg

183. Katie G. - June 24, 2011

Garrett wasn’t bad as Kim. Maybe he was a good actor who was given bad direction and had to comply (forgive the pun). Don’t know…

Sulu did have a few chances at being Captain in TOS movies and Voyager eps. In my opinion he did not do well. When he had his chance, he showed he wasn’t that good an actor. It was so obviously overacted as if he was saying “See? See? I can do it!” He just validated all the people who didn’t make him Captain of the Excelsior in his own series.

I enjoyed all the series. They each had their moments. Will never get sick of them.

ktg

184. Horatio - June 24, 2011

@179 agree about DS9 theme. Liked Voyagers theme as well. My nitpicking gripe was really more about the week to week episodic soundtracks.

185. MJ - June 24, 2011

@183. The comparisons between and Takei and Wang are very relevant here.

— Not a great actor
— Self-delusions of grandeur
— Persecution complex
— Bitter
— Jealous
— Prone to tirades
— Characters denied promotions and subsequent paranoia by the actors playing them
— Didn’t like the actor playing the Captain
— Trek fandom is how the earn most of their living.

Etc. Etc.

186. Ted C - June 24, 2011

wow, some of you people complain about the most trivial stuff and are awfully cranky and bitter sounding. Voyager was a good show. Janeway was a good captain. I enjoyed it. I don’t think the premise lent itself to a movie so I’m not sure about that idea. I look back at all the Trek series with good memories, not with hatred towards those that ran them. Good grief.

187. Trelane Kor Sisko Keiko OBrien Wrath of Farakhan - June 24, 2011

What about Ben Sisko? He deserved a film or at least that Admiral Guest spot in Nemesis. I was not crazy about Voyager. A few episodes were cool but overall it was not all that great. They brought the Borg on the show to save it. It was a mistake from the start. These actors need to get over it. They get residual checks from Syndication and DVD sales. He needs to shut up and go into the sunset. Didn’t he get the memo, Star Trek is set in an alternate reality now. Hey maybe one of Harry Kims ancestors was on the USS Kelvin. Anyway I think its lame when these actors gripe about shows that have been off television for years. Voyager was the okay looking sister with the fat booty in the Star Trek family. Enterprise was the sister that got pretty after four years. I liked some Voyager episodes but overall it was not that good. Neelix was annoying. He is the Jar Jar of Star Trek.

188. MJ - June 24, 2011

@186 “wow, some of you people complain about the most trivial stuff and are awfully cranky and bitter sounding…..good grief.”

I’ve seen about 10 posts similar to this one and I DON’T GET IT? Garrett Wang himself is trashing others and Voyager, and yet several of you keep posting these silly comments about how negative and awful these posts are. GIVE ME A BREAK! Read the fracking article first? HOW IS AN OBJECTIVE PERSON SUPPOSE TO RESPOND POSITIVELY TO AN ARTICLE LIKE THIS???

I can understand how on a lot of news stories on this web site that people can legitimately say that people are too negative. But this does not fit that bill. Please stop insulting my intelligence by complaining about the negative nature of these posts and instead take the time to read the fracking article. Anyone who reads the article is not going to come away ready to sing Kumbaya — this Wang guy is a jealous, bitter malcontent, and there are no positives for an objective person to take away here IMHO.

189. Keachick (rose pinenut) - June 24, 2011

I really do hope that the present Star Trek cast (Pine, Quinto, Urban, Cho, Saldana, Pegg, Yelchin) learn something here, as in what NOT to do, in the next few years. I hope that they have the talent and resolve to see what is, or is not, possible for their characters to be and fight for that. I also hope that *management* – director/writers/producers (pretty much the same people here) have the ability (and humility) to listen to VALID points these actors may make and act accordingly. Moreover, I really do hope that this cast of young, intelligent and talented people work out any differences some may have with one another and seek to reconcile then and there.

Frankly, I do not want to see a repeat of the moaning and bitching and the (continual) badmouthing of fellow actors and/or producers etc in the public arena. Some of it is just so negative, pointless and rather souring.

190. Danya Romulus - June 24, 2011

To hear Wang say (over and over) how offended he was that his character was never promoted from ensign, it is hard not to think of one particular anecdote shared by Wil Wheaton in his autobiography. He said that in the course of negotiating for salaries in a particular season, the opening offer from the powers-that-be was to keep his pay the same, but for Wesley to be promoted. Wheaton ridiculed this in the book, wondering if in a scenario where the bank called demanding a mortgage payment, he could tell them it was okay because now he was a lieutenant. I think Wil probably has his head in a better place about this than Garrett does…

191. Katie G. - June 25, 2011

Oh… and I looked up the word “bitching” in an online “Urban dictionary” and found this:

“Repeatedly saying something over and over, or rather whining about it, therefore destroying the point you were trying to make”

And on the Miriam-Webster site:

Synonyms: beef, bellyache, complain, bleat, carp, caterwaul, crab, croak, fuss, gripe, grizzle, grouch, grouse, growl, grumble, grump, holler, inveigh, keen, kick, kvetch, maunder [chiefly British], moan, murmur, mutter, nag, repine, scream, squawk, squeal, wail, whimper, whine, whinge [British], yammer, yawp (or yaup), yowl.

(I know, I know… shut-up Data.)

:-D

ktg

192. Katie G. - June 25, 2011

Okay. The post I made before #191 is missing. Rats…

ktg

193. On Vacation With Landru - June 25, 2011

I don’t think the current Trek cast can be compared with the previous ones. There is no tv series, they are not television actors comparing themselves with their predecessors who all made it to the movies. They’ve been in movies. They are in movies. There has only been ONE movie. The sense that all the ST actors who feel that they were slighted over the run of their series is not there. I doubt it will be. While I liked the movie, it will not be ST in the sense that the characters they are playing they are not helping to also create – which was something that went on to a certain extent in all the shows.

That said, I’m tired of hearing people complain about the crap everyone already knows about. No, Takei is/was NOT a good actor. There is a reason he didn’t get a lot of work aside from the fact that he was asian. I just watched him in his appearance on Mission: Impossible a few days ago and he was much like he was on Trek – stiff and unconvincing and clearly eager to please.

Voyager wasn’t good, but it wasn’t bad either. It was just…stale. When you start off with the idea of a Federation ship being able to be lost in the first place, you’ve got problems. The Federation isn’t infallible, but to have them fail to the extent that they are lost and cannot get home for YEARS, its a huge problem.

194. da laffin tlhIngan - June 25, 2011

The reason the second half of the Voyager series was weak is because it was all about Jeri Ryan.

The Doctor simply “forgot” that he knew all the current cutting-edge medicine (he was a combination of *hundreds* of the Federation’s best medical officers, right?) and replaced everything with Borg nanoprobes– the most insidious weapon ever.

Almost every plot had something to do with the Borg, if not Barbie of Borg herself. And the final episode? It revolves around saving her life! *That’s* why VOY became weak– not because of anything done by Garrett Wang or any of the other real crew.

Bad writing by a hack writer who wanted to turn a really good show into a fanboys’ show. *That’s* what killed VOY.

195. Captain Kathryn - June 25, 2011

yes, Katie G…and the one I just posted a few minutes ago, never appeared….Double Rats…

196. Captain Kathryn - June 25, 2011

Hey Anthony, where is my post?

197. Damian - June 25, 2011

Ensign Kim was a character I never much cared for, at least until I thought later in the series how he was the most unfortunate character on the show. Bad things were always happening to him. I guess I started liking his character more out of sympathy for him than anything else. They did address at one point on the show why he was not promoted, Captain Janeway informing him that due to their unique circumstances they were unable to promote people like they normally would be. Wang should be happy to know that he did finally get that promotion in the novels and is now Second Officer and Tactical Officer on Voyager.

On a side note, never once did I think Voyager was going to get a movie. It was probably the least well received of the spinoffs. I found things to like in the show and did see it through. But I never thought it was movie worthy. Also, the show did conclude with them getting home. I thought the finale was good enough to finish the show. Sorry Garrett, if you want to see how your character progressed, you’ll have to pick up the novels.

198. Bob Tompkins - July 1, 2011

Newmesis pulled what? $40 million? Voyager movie would have pulled perhaps 1/4th of that.
It just wasn’t that good.

199. JAB - August 25, 2011

I liked ST from the very first moment, the optimistic view of the future of humanity mixed up with imaginative alien worlds and technology.

IMHO, I liked Voyager because it was the most “human’ of all the ST series, just like a family, not filled with the pomposity of TNG, or mechanical like DS9..

I don’t understand why people fail to understand that GW cared/cares about his role in VOY, and it pains him to see the series trashed through incompetence. I am sorry but the highest professionalism is to see that you and your work grow, not be stagnant.

I felt sorry for the Enterprise actors that were given ridiculous plots and some of them were portrayed as bumbling retards…it has no place in a sc-fi environment where everybody’s supposed to be reasonably intelligent and tech and science savvy…

I certainly look forward to a ST movie, hopefully better than the 2009 JJA fiasco-no imagination and absolutely absurd plot line…I felt sorry for the actors…

200. sam - November 25, 2011

Ensign Kim was easily the most annoying character on the show.

I’m in the midst of rewatching it and STNG and while Voyager was much better than the early seasons of STNG, any episode featuriing Kim was a flat out bore. Most of the time, he was no better than a horny 15 year old which got old real fast.

Quit whining and be thankful that your career blossomed however briefly.

201. Captain Jet - June 9, 2012

Everyone has their own opinion, but for me, I enjoyed Star Trek Voyager greatly, and I really loved the finale – I watch it every 2 years or so, and enjoy it as much as the first time.

I agree with many of Garret’s comments – there were many strange turns by the producers, and Garret got cut out of lots of opportunity for pointing out the flaws.

The series took a big turn for the better once Jeri Ryan came on board. For some reason, it seemed to be the kick in the ass the writers and producers needed in order to right a ship that was going downhill quickly. Everything, including the acting by the balance of the crew, improved. In the positive aspect, it did seem like a family, and as a result not as stiff as some of the earlier shows, in the negative, the plots were quite one dimensional – always about the borg or the hirogen, and all the time Voyager was being sliced, diced, taken over, etc which rarely made sense given that essentially it was a pocket cruiser whose tech was well in advance of the sector, generally.

I am reading some of the comments above about how limited Garret’s “range” was in the series, but he did not write the scripts, and in fact, he abhorred how they always had him as a horny one dimensional character – although quite frankly, almost every 25 yr old guy i know pretty much has sex on the brain 99% of the time – I certainly did when I was that age! LOL

Garret was not the only actor frustrated with how they were dealt with in the show – just ask the actress who played Kes – she is on record for much of the same general complaints.

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