Zachary Quinto: 4 Years Between Star Trek Movies Is A Good Thing + UPDATE: Joins ‘American Horror Story’ |
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Zachary Quinto: 4 Years Between Star Trek Movies Is A Good Thing + UPDATE: Joins ‘American Horror Story’ August 26, 2011

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: ST09 Cast,Star Trek (2009 film),Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Star Trek fans may be lamenting the long wait between the 2009 Star Trek movie and its sequel, but Zachary Quinto actually thinks it is a good thing. In a video interview (below) watch the new Spock talk about how the time gap helps the team and the fans. He also talks about the potential for Spock in the next film and more. [UPDATE: Quinto joins American Horror Story]


Quinto on long gap, Spock’s goldmine of drama potential and more parallel universes?

Speaking to the Associated Press about the Star Trek sequel, Quinto had this to say about the long wait:

I think there was an implicit understanding that we would do it again and we would all be excited when that time came, but that it probably wouldn’t be for a minute. You can’t go through something so sweeping and so powerful and expect it to begin again right away. I think everyone was cool and let it settle and we all went off to do other stuff and now we are gearing up to get back to it eventually at some point.

By the time the movie comes out it will be like 3 years later – almost 4 years later. So I think there is something nice about that. it gives people a chance to breathe. Both the people involved in creating the story and the people engaging the story. And it makes people miss it a little bit. We had a lot of good will around that first movie so I feel like people are going to be ready for that second one when it comes out. It’s not like "already? really? again"

Regarding the creative team and their progress, Quinto had this to say:

I know those guys are working really hard on it – JJ, Bob, Alex, Damon. It is going to be awesome right? I have to know that with them all in a room. I have heard some rumblings, but I haven’t seen anything.

On Spock’s arc

His planet was destroyed so there is a good place to start. The onus he feels to rebuild his race to support the reminder of his culture and the conflicts that can arise therein. His relationship with Uhura and being pulled in more than one direction emotionally is potential goldmine of drama.


Here is more from Quinto from the same event (via ITN), where Quinto said:

I imagine we are going to pick up right where we left off, but it could be a completely different timeline. They have basically created a device where we could go anywhere. We could be in a parallel universe, we could be in a parallel time. It is the joy of science fiction. Vulcan could be back, who knows.

UPDATE: Quinto joins American Horror Story

In other Quinto news, the actor is headed back to TV for a recurring role on the upcoming FX series American Horror Story. According to Entertainment Weekly, Quinto will play "a gay interior designer who used to be the owner of the show’s centerpiece haunted house."  

American Horror Story premires on FX on October 5th. Here is a promo:



1. MDSHiPMN - August 26, 2011

He’s the best actor in the movie.

2. They call me Stasiu - August 26, 2011

Antici… pation is a good thing!

3. Green-Blooded-Bastard - August 26, 2011

I couldn’t think of another actor that could pull off Spock better than Quinto did. Having to play an emotionless being for an actor has got to be difficult without looking or feeling wooden on film, luckily he has enough insight into the character and chops as an actor to be able to make what he’s thinking or feeling on screen just barely obvious with just the most subtle of facial expressions or body language. He really is a good actor.

4. T'Cal - August 26, 2011

He did impress me. There were moments in which he channeled Nimoy’s Spock. In the scene in which he loses his mother and they zoom in on him on the transporter pad he looks like a child – in fact, he looks like the actor who played him as a child earlier in the film. Outstanding performances.

I’m getting tired of the writers releasing non-updates.
“We’re close!”
“Now we’re closer!!”
“Boy, oh boy are we close now!!!”
blah blah blah

5. Shaun - August 26, 2011

@ #1

i think chris pine is pretty good. in fact, it’s a great cast from top to bottom. probably trek’s most talented ensemble of actors yet.

6. MJ - August 26, 2011

Christ, another procrastinator with excuses. Can you imagine this happening on the Harry Potter series of movies?

Love Quinto as an actor, but his need to take multiple years off to get refreshed comes across as lame and as a very obvious life-line to bail out the tardy Supreme Court.

7. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - August 26, 2011

Tim Him 4 years might be ok. But to us Crazy Trekies or Terkers. THAT’S JUST TO LONG OF A WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok. I feel better now.

8. Lt. Bailey - August 26, 2011

#7 Commodore.

I could not agree more. Whats it to him to wait 4 years??? What else is he going to say??? I know that he must put a positive spin on it all, but we all have heard it too many times since the 2009 film.

9. MJ - August 26, 2011

@7 @8 Exactly! Enough is enough! I am so tired of the continued parade of excuses and poor attempts at face saving here.

10. BoltBait - August 26, 2011

We used to get an episode a week. Now we have to wait 4 years?

Ugh. I hate waiting.

11. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 26, 2011

The only person we have not heard from saying this sort of thing has been Chris Pine. Hopefully, he will have the good sense not to say anything now and not get drawn into answering any silly questions from reporters, papz etc. Sometimes silence can be golden.

12. Spike - August 26, 2011

Finally people saying what I’ve been afraid to..I try to be patient but four years I mean come on!!!!

13. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 26, 2011

ZQ, I’ve said this elsewhere… but I’ll say it again, four years is too long for me to catch my breath…LOL

11. Keachick …Yeah …definitely!

14. I'm Dead Jim! - August 26, 2011

I fear that the time between movies will be comparable to waiting for Pon Far!

15. pilotfred - August 26, 2011

4 years is that all! maybe they should wait 6 years just to make sure we are refresh i mean who wants a film every two years not mean to much and dont even think about 26 episodes of tv a years lol

given it up to berman not only a movie but 2 tv prgrames at the same times just think if we were going off jj time table the next gen will be in the first season

16. Will_H - August 26, 2011

Sorry, but of course they’re going to have everyone behind the movie come up with excuses and reasons that they’re dragging their heals with this next movie. 2-3 years is a chance for people to catch their breath, 3-4 years is a chance for people to forget the excitement of the first and lose interest.

17. Allen Williams - August 26, 2011

I wouldn’t mind if it was on TV, but its not.

18. dr_beckett - August 26, 2011

Let’s hope the 4 year gap works in Trek’s favor. There was also a 4 year gap between Insurrection and Nemesis, and look how that turned out.

Just saying.

19. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 26, 2011

Re: Quinto/Spock’s special cadence in the way he says of “Out of the chair” to Kirk –

We have a beautiful shiny coated black Labrador cross 5 year old bitch called Shadow. She likes to get into her “master’s” chair. The only way she will get off the chair is when she is told “Out of the chair” said in the same way as Spock said it to Kirk. She rarely responds to any other command, or those words said in any other way. She’s just done it now, going from one sofa to another, even though somebody here was copying the Quinto/Spock words and not directing them at her at all. She is such a good dog!!!

20. Zee - August 26, 2011

3 years makes sense, but 4 years is just too long.

21. Smoking Robot - August 26, 2011

Nonsense. Resurrecting a franchise only to let it sit for four years is crazy. Please, someone get Trek back on tv.

22. Zee - August 26, 2011

Love Zach Quinto. He was terrific as Spock.

#5 Shaun
I agree this is a very talented group of actors. They were all good.

23. Michael - August 26, 2011

Four years between orgasms is way too long.

24. NuFan - August 26, 2011

Let’s try to limit our whining to 10 posts per article. And that’s counting your sock puppets.

25. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 26, 2011

#22 And just think, Vulcans have to wait another three years…:)

26. Chadwick - August 26, 2011

Yea but not all good movies take 4 years to make, one could be done in two. Room to breath is one thing but Quinto is not “into” Star Trek the way say Nimoy or Koeing are.

You may want 4 years….the fans don’t.

27. Mel - August 26, 2011

Vulcan should stay destroyed. I don’t like it, when they used all the time the reset button.

And I don’t think that most of the Vulcans are interested in his help. They were big racists in the last movie. I think his sole existence is something a lot of people don’t like. They think already that this harmed their race/culture. So I bet they would prefer, if he doesn’t get any children. They sound like the kind of people, who would see it as a further dilution of their race. As there are so few Vulcans left, I bet they feel this way even stronger now.

28. Omni - August 26, 2011

What a complete waste of time. Four years to make a mediocre sequel? With b-list actors? Please…let it die! JJ Abrams has got to be the worst director in Hollywood. They say that Nemesis killed the franchise? I beg to differ. Abrams drove the stake through its heart.

29. trekker 5 - August 26, 2011

I saw this on his Facebook,but,I love to watch him talk! So sexy! Anyway,a little bit of an inbetween is good,but…………this long of one,I don’t know about. I hope JJ don’t forget about his saying that he will tell us something ‘very soon’.

30. Paul B. - August 26, 2011

I’d love to go back through old posts to see how many of those who are whining about the delay were the same folks who didn’t want the first movie to be made in the first place.

Seriously, folks, do you think that all this griping and whining is going to make Abrams, Orci, etc. suddenly speed up? Do you think they’re just sitting back, laughing at fans and throwing darts at pictures of the TOS cast?

If they had rushed, you’d complain about a rushed sequel. Now you’re complaining about a delayed sequel. Hey, how about being happy that there will BE a sequel? (Except those of you who just hate anything related to AbramsTrek.)

It is embarrassing to call myself a Trekkie when so many other Trekkies are so…well, Anthony runs a polite site here, so I’ll stop that comment right there. Grow up, people! GET A LIFE!

31. MJ - August 26, 2011

@29 “I’d love to go back through old posts to see how many of those who are whining about the delay were the same folks who didn’t want the first movie to be made in the first place.”

Nice try, but for my part, I loved Trek 09, and was a consistend staunch defende of the Supreme Court until Spring of this year when it became clear about the continuing delays, etc.

32. cdp - August 26, 2011

I don’t think having to wait four years for the next movie is a bad thing as for as losing peoples interest. If people liked the first one they are going to take interest in the next one and want to go see it. Its hard to forget about a good movie. Plus in a few months when the FX network gets the rights to the movie they will be playing it on TV to refresh peoples memory and build up the anticipation for the next one.

I know as Star Trek fans we can never get enough of it. We are so used to getting a new movie every two or three years that we get spoiled on it. When we don’t get it the way we are used to we can get mad and impatient because we don’t like change.

The people that where in charge in the past really only worked on Star Trek and not much else. We have to understand there are new people in charge of the franchise right now who have other projects they have to work on besides Star Trek.

Change is a part of growth so we need to except it for what is and just move forward and let Star Trek naturally evolve as it will. After all In Hollywood nothing is ever written in stone things can change at anytime for any number of reasons so we just need to except it for what it is and let things play out how they may.

33. Odkin - August 26, 2011

As I said in another thread, Quinto is going to have to expand his range some to be a good Spock. Alternating between disinterested/bored, petulant/pissed, and mopey romantic does not a good Spock make.

Spock is clever. Spock is a smart ass. Spock is droll. Spock is uncontrollably curious. Spock is afraid of love because he fears how strong it is. He needs to treat it like a reformed alcoholic treats booze – not a drop. You know he’s really got that romantic human side in his heart and it takes all his mind and training and cultural pride to suppress it and be a “good” Vulcan.

I saw none of that in Quinto’s performance (or to be fair, the script).

34. Jeff O'Connor - August 26, 2011


It’s a good thing for the franchise’s sake that most of us (and the legions of well-paying casual fans) disagree with you.

35. Buzz Cagney - August 26, 2011

#20 i agree. Quinto can pontificate all he want’s. To be honest he may need to take up jogging if he’s still catching his breath after the last movie. It was enjoyable but it wasn’t that good.

#32 Agreed. I was very disappointed with his Spock.

36. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 26, 2011

Zachary Quinto can hardly say anything else. I wonder if Quinto is aware of the feelings of a lot of people who are wondering “What’s with the delays? and no official director yet?” and it is not just among die-hard Star Trek fans either. I guess it is all about diplomacy.

Re my previous post about Chris Pine not seeming to have said anything… Given that he has been photographed by paparazzi etc at the opening of a new clothing retail outlet, seen leaving hotel restaurants with friends etc, it is very possible that he has been quizzed by journalists hanging around about the Star Trek movie, and yet there has been nothing quoted relating to any movie that he has been signed on to make – not Star Trek, not The Rise of the Guardians (animation movie) or the Jack Ryan movie. Yet everyone else, it seems, has been busy talking no-news news.

Just saying…

37. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 26, 2011

#29 – Paul B …you tried so hard… but no way…

:-) :-)

38. Odkin - August 26, 2011

BTW, I noticed “Super 8″ playing at the $3 flop theater today, and assume “Cowboys and Aliens” is not far behind.

Just sayin’.

39. Brett Campbell - August 26, 2011

If it had been four years between films with the TOS cast, I would have cared. With this cast and the MTV-ification of “Star Trek,” who cares?

40. Brett Campbell - August 26, 2011

Also, just sayin’.

41. Gary Makin - August 26, 2011

Omni and Odkin should team up as Omniodkin, or Odkinomni… *coughs trolls*

42. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 26, 2011

#35 – Keachick….In fact Chris has not been recently interviewed… the other actors are promoting their new projects and are questioned about Trek sequel, and then end up saying something…

CP is still hidden in the rabbit hole… regarding the work I mean….

:-) :-)

43. Gary Makin - August 26, 2011

38/39 – if you don’t care, why are you commenting?

44. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 26, 2011

Quinto/Spock is not trying to be a “good” Vulcan. He is trying to be a “good” Human. What part of that don’t you understand?

This Spock may well have to resort to undergoing something like the Kolinahr ritual in order to integrate aspects of himself better, so that he can gain greater mastery over his emotions. Neither path he takes, either the path of a “true” Vulcan or the path of a “true” Human, will be easy. That is Vulcan/Human cross he must bear.

In TOS, I thought Spock came off as intellectually snotty and arrogant and eager to put down humans for lesser intellectual capacities and what he saw as a lack of rationality. Kirk also showed this apparent lack of rationality and yet Kirk still managed to win at 3D chess and still made the winning call when it came to saving the Enterprise and crew. Kirk’s abilities often left Spock bewildered.

45. Basement Blogger - August 26, 2011

Zachery Quinto says, “We could be in a parallel universe, we could be in a parallel time. It is the joy of science fiction. Vulcan could be back, who knows.”

Oh great. Another parallel universe. Will somebody call Scott Bakula?

Quinto says, “And it makes people miss it a little bit. We had a lot of good will around that first movie so I feel like people are going to be ready for that second one when it comes out. It’s not like “already? really? again”

Yeah, three years is too soon. People were complaining when Harry Potter I was folllowed by Harry Potter II, one year later. And boy, they were howling when Twilight I was followed by Twilight II, then Twilight III year after year. Gee, I wonder if those franchises were hurt by doing one move one year apart. :-) (The answer is they weren’t..) But I can’t believe that Quinto is arguing franchise fatique.

46. Brett Campbell - August 26, 2011

42 – Because I live in America and it’s a constitutional right. Plus I have loved and cared about this show since it first aired in 1966. If you don’t like my opinions, don’t read them.

47. Cygnus-X1 - August 26, 2011

“Four years between Star Trek movies is a good thing.”

Hmm…I never thought of it that way before. I suppose four years between the original and the sequel is a good thing, in that it gives a HEY WAIT A MINUTE!!!

Sneaky Quinto…almost got me with his little power-of-suggestion trick there…but I’m not fallin’ for it!

And what’s this about “time to breathe?” None of that, either!

Back to work! Move! Move! Move! Write! Produce! Act! Make fantastic art!


48. Jack - August 26, 2011

4. Bingo. That transporter scene was pretty neat.

I’m fine with the wait. Next summer would have been good, but whatever. Again, I’m glad they’re not rushing crap out — although I hope that the team taking their time means we’ll get something passable, at the very least…

Spock’s characterization was pretty inconsistent at times in TOS, but (mostly, apart from the first few episodes) not glaringly so. And, of course, he was very different in each movie, although this worked well (and there were reasons for it in the stories, mostly [although 5 was just goofy]).

My favorite Spock was in Star Trek II, I think. I don’t know Leonard Nimoy, but he seemed more Nimoy-y than Spock-y, I’m guessing, in his later appearances as Spock (a charge we often level at Shatner, although calling his later Kirk more Shatner-like is less of a compliment).

49. Odkin - August 26, 2011

Keachick said
“Quinto/Spock is not trying to be a “good” Vulcan. He is trying to be a “good” Human. What part of that don’t you understand?”

The part that you are completely making up out of thin air? Or was the movie so misguided in it’s characterization and execution that Spock abandoned those sacred Vulcan beliefs and I just missed it?

50. Jack - August 26, 2011

PS. Hey, Keachick.

Maybe Pine knows when to keep his mouth shut. These “I’d like to see my character…(usually it’s ‘really kick some ass’)” comments, or worse, total speculation based on what happened to their characters in the last movie usually sound, well, like bullshit. I was listening to a radio interview today with Larry Hagman, and he was talking about how he was offered, back when JR was shot, like 250 grand to reveal who had shot him. And, of course, he had no idea.

Yet again, I’m hoping Spock’s lamenting for the loss of Vulcan is over. The remaining Vulcans will be fine. They’re smart — they’re Vulcans for Pete’s sake — so they won’t sink or swim depending on the actions of young Spock (unless they’re planning on doing a Spock-as-Conan/Spartacus kind of thing, in which case Quinto had better start doing push-ups and practice oiling himself up). I’m hoping for no mention of Vulcan at all in the next thing, frankly… unless they go all political and do a cold-war-y intrigue/Jason Bourne political thriller kind of thing, with the balance shifted after the loss of Vulcan and the Romulans or Vulcans stirring shit up and some nefarious scheme at play, etc.


That’s the thing. Trek movies haven’t done relatively small-stakes dangers (where the Earth isn’t at risk) that well (although, now that I think about it, Trek II, III and VI did it damned well).

The TNG movies, apart from First Contact, had stakes that we didn’t really care about (the people of Veridian III [or wherever it was], those 600 Ba’ku settlers. The Enterprise, of course… but you knew (by then the franchise was a machine, there was no question that it would continue, unlike those early TOS movies) the ship and crew would be relatively fine (even when it was destroyed, you knew it was just so they could introduce another model). Heck, in Nemesis, Earth was (slightly indirectly) in peril and I could have cared less. Ditto with Data and the Enterprise.

After a while, the ship alone being in danger isn’t enough (because we know it’ll be fine and that it will escape similar danger next week/film, see: Voyager and it’s weekly pyrotechnic-filled “the ship is being torn apart!” battle sequence). In the movies that worked, we were pretty well convinced that, yeah, it could all be over (and Spock did die, briefly… and the Enterprise was destroyed, briefly).

But, when Trek worked, it was because of what was happening to the characters and how they were reacting. There was doubt and self-flagellating and consequences. The big three were in conflict, with themselves and with each other. When the trigger is, clearly, engineered (hey look, Picard’s nephew died, horrifically… hey look, Spock has a brother… hey look, Picard has a clone) or isn’t there at all, well, the movie sucks.

51. Jack - August 26, 2011

49. Alas, Keachick tends to speculate a bit on here. :)

52. Daniel craigs my wookie bitch now - August 26, 2011

Its not the 4 years wait thats the issue, its the run around that the so called supreme court is doing. and the need to keep saying oh well have date or info you soon or next month etc.

if they didnt keep saying that i wouldnt mind4 year wait, but when something has been agreed upon as being released by specific time and then its not because vanity projects took precident then yeah there is a big problem

53. gir6 - August 26, 2011

The twisted panties are strong in this thread. Cowboy up and just wait for the movie. Jeez.

Semper fi, Trek fans. Semper fi.

54. Porthos - August 26, 2011

No, it isn’t a good thing. DAYS beetween Star Trek episodes would be a good thing. Star Trek was a clever sci-fi series, not a blockbuster trilogy. I liked the new movie, but we need the series too. For example last years we can read TOS, TNG, DS9, EXCALIBUR and NUKIRK comic by IDW. And we was waiting for VOY, TITAN and ENT comics too. No there aren’t anything else on the horizont just JJveres comics. Some weak promise that perhaps, maybe we will see a animation or live series., sometimes, somewhere …or not.
It isn’t a good thing.
(Sorry for my English, i’m just a beagle.)

55. Harry Ballz - August 26, 2011

Zachary Quinto: “4 Years Between Star Trek Movies Is A Good Thing”


(not because we’re impatient, but because it weakens the appeal of the franchise)

56. Paul - August 26, 2011

Yea, they get room to breathe, but on the other hand, the franchise loses its momentum. If you are to make Star Trek for casuals, you get to cater to casuals’ attention span, and obviously, casuals’ attention span is notably short. Having four years between first and second episode is NOT a good idea, because casuals don’t remember the first movie anymore.

Note the other popular franchises and their frequency of releasing new movies: Lord of the Rings, every year. Harry Potter, first two episodes released in subsequent years, following episodes with two years gap at most.

Fans will wait four years… casuals won’t. And one movie is not enough to turn casuals into fans.

57. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 26, 2011

Spock did not join the Vulcan Science Academy and as the head of the Academy had said no vulcan had ever declined the opportunity to be part of the Academy. Spock’s father in the same scene reminds Spock that he had chosen the Vulcan way (which it seemed meant that it was alright to see his wife and the mother of Spock as some kind of disadvantage). Spock tells the ministers that he must decline and commented that, to the effect that since Spock was only half-vulcan, then their record had remained untarnished. Given how he said the final words, “Live long and prosper” in the movie and the subsequent scenes with seeing Spock being first officer on a Federation starship under the auspices of Starfleet on Earth and particularly the scene in the turbo lift with Lt Uhura and AWAY from the public eye, I think it is a fairly safe bet to make that this Spock has chosen the Human way. I am not making this up out of thin air, nor am I making wild speculations. I am drawing my conclusions from what is shown in the movie, Star Trek, released May 2009.

Spock is a human/vulcan hybrid. This means that he has the potential to be identifiably human and also something identifiably vulcan. In TOS, Spock tells us in The Enemy Within that there is always a struggle within him between his human half and his vulcan half. In TOS, it appears that he is both a member of Starfleet and the Vulcan Science Academy, however we do not know the timing or the circumstances of how he gained membership to both organisations.

58. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 27, 2011

#56 While I agree that four years is too long, your examples are not good ones. The Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit, Harry Potter (and Twilight) are all screen adaptations from books already written and published. This is not the case with Star Trek movies. Perhaps it should be.

59. Visitor1982 - August 27, 2011

Four years is really too long for a damned movie. They prefer working on mediocre movies like Super 8 (which isn’t the succes expected) and Cowboys & Aliens (which isn’t the succes expected either).

We could have had a fine STAR TREK movie by now. I’m getting tired of the lame excuses and announcing there will be an announcement in the next month and then… NOTHING!

To the supreme court: Leave, if you can’t make STAR TREK your top priority. I’d rather have Berman (and that says enough!).

They should focus more on bringing back STAR TREK to the small screen. I don’t need 26 episodes a year, half of that would be fine if it increased the quality of the show.

60. Basement Blogger - August 27, 2011

@ 30

Wow, Paul B. That’s the best you got? You insult us by the old “Get a life” taunt. And the Trekkers who protest are a word you can’t use? I’m a big boy, go ahead and call us that.

But as Spock would say, let’s look at this logically, shall we? Let’s pretend you and I run a restaurant. Customer A is a regular and one of our best customers. He sits down. We tell him that we’ll get to him. Other customers sit down and we decide to serve them first. Let’s call those customers, Super 8, Person of Interest, Alcatraz, Mission Impossible IV and Prometheus, We decide to tell Customer A that we will get to him but we don’t. We tell him the wait is one hour. Then we change that to say two hours. Then we say we’ll come back and tell him when we will wait on him. I bet you ten quatloos that Customer A is not going to be happy. And we run the risk of pissing him off so much he might not come back.

But let’s say Customer A complains to us. We worry about pissing him off and losing him. We decide to take his order. We make sure that our service to him is good. We make sure the food is going to be great and that it comes out on time. By the way, I have worked at a restaurant and when a customer has legitimate beef, we took extra care to make sure his food was great. Anyway, do you really want to piss off our best Customer?

I suggest you check out he link below. Look at Commentt 110. Now read all the “misstatements” that the Supreme Court has thrown out. Did they treat Trekkers with any respect?

61. gingerly - August 27, 2011

@57 I don’t think this Spock has chosen the human path, persay. I think he’s only realized that he doesn’t have to choose. An improvement over self-denying TOS Spock, IMO and a welcome relevant parallel to many people today, who don’t identify as only one culture, ethnicity, or sexual preference and are no less proud to be any of them.

62. gingerly - August 27, 2011

@57 I don’t think this Spock has chosen the human path, persay. I think he’s only realized that he doesn’t have to choose. An improvement over self-denying TOS Spock, IMO and a welcome relevant parallel to many people today.

63. gingerly - August 27, 2011

Double-post. Please delete this and the previous post?

64. Basement Blogger - August 27, 2011

@ 59 Visitor1982

I like Rick Berman. He wasn’t perfect but he had one thing on his plate. THAT WAS STAR TREK. But what about George Lucas? From what I can tell on IMDB, Lucas worked on basically two projects from 1999-2005. Yount Indiana Jones. And Star Wars I, II and III. Want to see a modern example of how an artist is handling a franchise? Check out James Cameron. Basically, he’ s working on Avatar for the next five years with almost nothing else on his docket.

I believe that the Supreme Court is extremely talented. But when you put other projects ahead of Star Trek, you’re going to get it delayed. Yeah, Star Trek 2015 will come out but the quesion is when.

65. MJ - August 27, 2011

For the few of you who think Spock is showing too much emotion in Trek 09, I will point out that in TOS universe, the earliest we see Spock is in the pilot, “The Cage,” (where again he was an officer on Pike’s ship) where he is also showing more emotions. Thus, the consistency between an early spock struggling more with his human emotions, and sometimes when stressed, even wearing them on his sleeve, was exactly done that way in TOS.

The behavior of “the early Spock” in Trek is thus full consistent between the Prime Universe and the nuTrek universe.

So what is the issue?

66. VulcanFilmCritic - August 27, 2011

What’s really bugging me about this whole situation is the huge undercurrent of RELUCTANCE to get started again on another Star Trek movie. I hear it in the defensive procrastinating of the Supreme Court. I hear it in the sense of fatigue in Quinto’s voice.
THAT is what’s bugging the fans; not the actual words spoken. I just don’t sense any passion about this. Certainly not the dedication of a George Lucas to Star Wars. Or even the professional enthusiasm of a Steven Spielberg or a Leonard NImoy.
“OK, we’ll make it already! But we need a lot of time,” is what I hear. Even if that were the case with the Roddenberry crew and cast, they never voiced that ambivalence.
What is it Steve Jobs used to say? REAL HEROES SHIP. That is, they get the s&*t made and get it out the door. Franchises are different from movie sequels. Franchises are almost like movie serials. It may be decades between sequels like “The Hustler” and “The Color of Money,” but there should be a certain rhythm and efficiency in getting a sequence of movies out to an eager audience.
I’m sure that whatever Paramount dumps on the back steps will be eagerly lapped up by hungry fans, but remember that Star Trek is not shiny and new anymore. We may not want to see it MULTIPLE times, especially if it’s not that good. That is a huge part of the box office take, so FANS STILL MATTER.
And if truth be told, the general audience, those with little previous interest in Star Trek, were a little confused by what they saw. You can’t make another Star Trek movie that is dependent on simple thrills to get bodies in the theater. We have plenty of movies like that today. There has to be some heart and soul evident in the project in order to make a truly great movie. And I’m just not hearing that.
As for Mr. Quinto’s Spock, it was adequate and entertaining and it had some pathos, but compared to Mr. Nimoy’s Spcok, kind of lacking in that mysterious quality that set this character apart from any other. Mr. Quinto has a long way to go in convincing me that his Spock is a true alien and not just a petulant boy from the suburbs with deformed ears.

67. Hateya - August 27, 2011

@66 VucanFilmCritic,
“What’s really bugging me about this whole situation is the huge undercurrent of RELUCTANCE to get started again on another Star Trek movie. I hear it in the defensive procrastinating of the Supreme Court. ”

You’ve hit the nail on the head/ hit a home run with this. There does seem to be a reluctance to fully commit to the second movie. Everyone’s SAYING the right things, but the passion, the drive, and the energy needed to push this NuTrek forward isn’t there. Yes, Boborci and co. are busy; however, evidence of blood, sweat and tears would be nice every once in awhile.

Oh well, back to the world athletic championships…where mere humans continue to impress with their athletic prowess.

68. Alec - August 27, 2011

If they produce something like TWOK, I’ll happily wait four years. If you want something like 9 or 5, they could probably get it out by the end of this year. Trek is still a nascent entity in the eyes of the mainstream: we need another really good, action-packed film for them (and us) to enjoy. All this ‘will they won’t the’y, with respect to even having a sequel and having Shatner etc, keeps Trek in the buzz. Hopefully, we get remastered TNG on blu-ray soon, too.

Wait, my fellow Trekkies: ye shall be rewarded…

Remember, the Trek universe needn’t have frozen: what has happened to our heroes in the past three or four years? Are they more mature? What exactly has changed?

69. candy - August 27, 2011

IDIOTS!!! it aint zach quinto’s fault (or chris pine’s for that matter) that we have to wait nearly 4 years. zach does the job when he’s allowed to.

sheesh! we all know they’ve signed a 3 movie contract. so it isnt like they will not be back in the next movie. they’ll be there…when they’re allowed to. no earlier no later.

70. VulcanFilmCritic - August 27, 2011

@67. Hateya. Well, thank you.

I don’t want to be perceived as a bitter pessimist and I’m not saying that the Supreme Court won’t make a great movie. I sincerely hope that they do.
What I’m saying is the they MUST make a great movie this time. And great movies need heart.

71. Dac - August 27, 2011

I’ve been brainstorming story idea’s for the next movie myself for a while, and it was a pain in the arse to get something that makes sense, has realistic levels of action and drama and ultimately isn’t some random story for the sake of a random story.

Ultimately, the only story I could come up with was one that directly dealt with the fallout from the destruction of Vulcan, and how to ensure the survival of the Vulcan race they must start relations with Romulus in order to ensure the future of their species. Have this be something Nimoy Spock instigates, what with his knowledge of relations between the Vulcans and Romulans in the future. During the opening scene of the movie, future Spock is killed, and so its up to the crew of the Enterprise to solve the murder, preserve the fragile alliance between the Vulcans and the Romulans and ultimately unmask the big bad who wants to drive a wedge between them.

At least, that’s the only logical continuation I could come up with….

72. Dac - August 27, 2011

Blah, I really butchered the syntax in that last post. Oh well…

73. Norbert - August 27, 2011

Hey, I’m not getting any younger. Two years between the movies would be a good thing. But it would be better to do a new tv-series with 20 episodes per season. Or much better 4 or 6 two-hour telemovies a year.

74. VulcanFilmCritic - August 27, 2011

I’ve been telling my Star Trek fan friends about this possibility all along and they looked at me like I was crazy. But when you think about it, the Romulans are the only large pool of breeding stock the Vulcans have.

But for dramatic tension, perhaps not every Vulcan wants to go along with this. By interacting (at all) with the Romulans, the Vulcans may lose their (cultural) sense of self. They may forget who they are (and were). [I’m sure this will be Sarek’s position.]
This might create a schism in the Vulcan community as great as the one that led to the offshoot known as the Romulans in the past. This creates a real dilemma for them: To remain racially (but not philosophically) pure by mating with Romulans or to continue to be philosophically but not racially pure, Vulcans might require breeding with *yuck* Outworlders!

This would create a lot of problems in the Federation, as Vulcan has always been the tail that has wagged the dog, so to speak. Imagine these once proud people who used to control huge mining interests and shipping lanes, now fractured into camps of squabbling refugees. Maybe the Earthers are sick and tired of getting their marching order from Vulcan. After all, the majority of beings serving in Starfleet are from Earth. Chaos within the Federation ensues with some cynical and even borderline hostile planets considering leaving the Federation.

Enter the Klingons. Maybe this is just the opportunity they have been waiting for. A weakened Federation. So it’s now up to the remainder of the Federation to keep the galaxy from going over to (poor analogy, I know) The Dark Side. And who better to be the tip of the spear in this epic battle but The Enterprise.

Against this backdrop of planetary identity crisis, you have the ultimate identity-crisis-antihero, Spock, and his little interracial?/interspecies? romance.

How ironic if the solution to Vulcan’s crisis is to actually embrace the IDIC concept that they supposedly support. That by letting go of their ideal of racial purity and xenophobia that they might actually become a stronger people. Infinite diversity in infinite combination, indeed!

75. AJ - August 27, 2011

Business-wise, 4 years is a waste of millions of dollars invested in introducing “Trek” to a whole new generation of fans. Hell, ‘Trek09′ came out before ‘Avatar’ changed the face of popular film.

Franchise properties are throwing product at us left and right in the cinemas, and a quality film can be written and filmed with proper FX in 18 months.

Why has ‘Star Trek 2012′ been put on the back burner? As mentioned by some here, is it due to ‘Super 8′ or ‘Cowboys & Aliens’? It always seemed that everyone involved had carved out a large chunk of time specifically for ‘Trek.’ Where did that ‘chunk’ go? Remember when Bob and Alex were holed up in a hotel writing the script? That was ages ago.

The “if” clause from JJ’s NBC interview transcribed by TREKMOVIE speaks volumes, and it’s strange to hear it from JJ, whose statements to the press always sound pre-written by a PR company. Something is wrong in tinsel-town with regard to our favorite show, and JJ is involved in resolving it. The issue will come down to dollar signs and how to divide the loot.

After the billions Paramount has earned from the hideous ‘Transformers’ franchise, with more on the way, they may be looking to bring ‘Trek’ up to that level. Good luck with that.

76. Phil - August 27, 2011

I almost linked one of these videos to my facebook but the saw Star Trek 2… It’s Star Trek 12!

77. Paul B. - August 27, 2011

#60 – Basement Blogger

Your response just begs for me to say, “Get a life,” again. (It begs more than that–not really a great example of logic there, BB.)

Really, you’re that worked up over my rather mild criticism of fans whining about the wait?

Abrams and the “supreme court” haven’t been going out of their way to spread information. They’ve been responding to the rabid fans and media who keep asking when they’ll be starting the next film. Have they been accurate about every estimate? No, and so what? That’s life, buddy. Things don’t work according to plan all the time, and these folks are trying to make a GOOD Trek movie instead of just making one really soon.

The whining doesn’t speed up the writing process. Whining doesn’t make a production start date materialize. Many of us are mature enough to know that the world and everyone’s schedules do not revolve around us.

Save your outrage. I’m not the only one who’s complained about the whining around here, and I won’t be the last.

78. AJ - August 27, 2011


Paul B:

You wrote “these folks are trying to make a GOOD Trek movie instead of just making one really soon.”

That’s called ‘drinking the Kool-Aid.’ Don’t believe them Don’t trust them. JJ admitted that the project itself is still in question. “Cowboys and Aliens” wasn’t good. Why does tacking on a few more months make STAR TREK better? Are the writers paid hourly?

I’d bet a quatloo the script has been ‘in the can’ for a while. ‘Star Trek’ is not ‘Lord of the Rings.’ Characters and their relationships are pre-established from hours of episodic TV, 6 films and ST09. Bob Orci himself has mentioned how, with ST09 done, it will be easier to write the next one.

It comes down to what the studio wants to fund, and what they expect to make off of the picture. Perhaps the script ‘sucked’ in corporate terms and the suits asked for a re-write.

Believing the hype is like hording Crystal Pepsi because of the advertising.

79. Paul B. - August 27, 2011

76 – AJ: “That’s called ‘drinking the Kool-Aid.’ Don’t believe them Don’t trust them.”

Gee, thanks for the conspiracy-theory-flavored nonsense.

I was a huge skeptic about the first film, and I griped here about it. (I hated the Kirk/Uhura bar scene in the previews, for example, and almost swore off the film when we learned that a Beastie Boys song was used.) But I loved the movie, even those moments–hell, I loved the use of “Sabotage”–so these filmmakers earned a certain amount of my respect and trust.

Now they say they’re taking their time to do the sequel right. I believe they’re trying to do just that. Having tried my hand at screenwriting (I have five full-length pieces of crap in my file cabinet right now), I know that it’s not the easiest thing to craft a 2-hour film of ANY kind, much less a sequel to a reboot/sequel/prequel to a beloved franchise.

If they’d finished the script a year ago, a bunch of you would be whining that they rushed it. SOME TREK FANS ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE.

Many of you comment without having a clue about writing, about the film business, or about anything outside of your own navels.

80. AJ - August 27, 2011

Paul B. I am not a screenwriter, but having worked as an executive for listed companies, I know for sure that ‘Star Trek 2′, with a potential $500m to $1b gross is not easily shuttled around the schedule.

Usually, such companies insist on deadlines being met, or else people are fired. The notion that ‘more time is needed’ is a PR screed to cover up for negotiations of some sort. “Transformers 2″ made a billion worldwide with a horrible unprepared script, admitted by all involved, but the coin came in just the same. Paramount knows this now.

‘Star Trek’ is not an art-house project. Yes, it requires special care in the hands of those who know the lore, but it is not ‘small time,’ nor is it Lawrence of Arabia. Paramount, I believe, wants a billion out of the next picture. Reliable tentpoles for the shareholders. Harrison, bless his heart, is getting old, and there was talk of a new BH Cop film. Tentpoles. Tentpoles.

And that sucks, ’cause I’d rather watch the thing on TV

81. C Mosenko - August 27, 2011

I think it is really simple: the guy who played Skyler likely does not want to to be type cast, as so many of the former actors have. Many as we know have sort of killed their careers by becoming too well known as one of the star trek charecters. The break is good for the actors the break is good for their careers.

82. Smike - August 27, 2011

Okay, for now I can live with a 4-year-gap but just ONCE…Don’t make us wait another four years after that…2017 for Trek III would be a nuisance.

I don’t think Paramount expects Trek II to generate $500m + and it’s not gonna happen anyway. The first one grossed a lot more than expected domestically. It would have been considered a hit if it had grossed around. $180m. So $200 m + would be okay, I guess…

They need to gear up the international advertisment for the sequel though, because overseas, the movie couldn’t find an audience past the NextGen movies. This is where the money lies…POTC 4, TRANS 3 and HP 7.2 all grossed a billion due to an incredible international run but Trek II will NOT…forget it. There is no way this movie will gross past $500 m… if it can generate $400m +, we can would be blessed…

83. Bruce Banner - August 27, 2011

#79 The four year break between movies was probably planned from the beginning. Probably the only way the actors would sign on to the project.

84. Mel - August 27, 2011

@ 77 Paul B

If they don’t finish the script soon and start filming the movie, they have to rush to get it ready for 2013! A longer wait doesn’t mean, that they work longer on the sequel. It just means, that they did for a long time non Star Trek related things.

85. Adolescent Nightmare - August 27, 2011

I hope they have some gay ghosts on Quinto’s new show. As in life, gay ghosts are much cuter than straight ghosts.

86. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 27, 2011

#46. Brett Campbell –

“42 – Because I live in America and it’s a constitutional right. Plus I have loved and cared about this show since it first aired in 1966. If you don’t like my opinions, don’t read them.”

I am # 42 now…so … What are you talking about???… I have no idea… LOL

….Oh my God we need real news about the sequel soon!!! …+LOL

:-) :-)

87. Red Dead Ryan - August 27, 2011


Nope. Originally, the first film was to be released in Nov./Dec. 2008, with the sequel hitting theatres in Nov./Dec. 2011. But then Paramount decided they wanted to make “Star Trek” a big summer tentpole film franchise. So it was released in summer 2009. The sequel was then planned to be released summer 2012. But then the supreme court guys became too busy with other projects and pushed the date back to late fall 2012. Unfortunately, based on the last “true” update four months ago, they were only about 75% done writing the outline. They haven’t even begun writing the script.

Filming, which was supposed to have begun right about now, or even a couple of months ago, has now been pushed back in January of next year at the earliest. But I wouldn’t be surprised at all if filming didn’t start until spring of next year.

I’ve been saying for some time now, or at least once it Bob Orci said they couldn’t miss the December 2010 deadline, that the sequel will be coming out in Summer 2013.

As for actors trying to respond to questions for which they don’t have the answers, why not just say something like “I don’t know. The writers haven’t said anything to me, or the other cast members about when filming begins. So, unfortunately, I can’t give you an answer.” or the simple, yet classic “I have no comment”.

88. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - August 27, 2011

What makes you all think it’s only going to be 4 years?

I’m sorry but I really think this is going to kill the franchise that just got some life breathed into it. This franchise is not for us anymore it is a full blown franchise and the general public has no attention span.

The interest will not be there in another 2 years. Not for Star Trek. I hope this next film is a love letter to us because there won’t be another after it. Won’t have the box office nor the buzz

Too bad.

89. Bryan - August 27, 2011

Actors and Actresses are terrified of being type-casted if they’re portraying the same character too often so from Quinto’s perspective Star Trek every 4 years is good….

From a Fan perspective it’s a very bad thing considering there was a period of 18 consecutive years where Star Trek was continually produced on TV and movies. I’d love to see a new series on TV as long as it follows the Prime Universe.

90. MJ - August 27, 2011

@75 “Abrams and the “supreme court” haven’t been going out of their way to spread information. They’ve been responding to the rabid fans and media who keep asking when they’ll be starting the next film. Have they been accurate about every estimate? No, and so what? That’s life, buddy. Things don’t work according to plan all the time, and these folks are trying to make a GOOD Trek movie instead of just making one really soon. The whining doesn’t speed up the writing process. Whining doesn’t make a production start date materialize. Many of us are mature enough to know that the world and everyone’s schedules do not revolve around us. Save your outrage. I’m not the only one who’s complained about the whining around here, and I won’t be the last.”

What a condescending load of crap? Who appointed you judge and jury here? And there is just as much whining here as in posts where people are complaining, the main difference being that they are passionate and seem to really care about Trek, where as you come across as disaffected and cynical.

And saying ” “Abrams and the “supreme court” haven’t been going out of their way to spread information,” just shows me how you have not been paying attention at all to this issue. There is no information — just several platitudes repeated over and over….”need the time to get it right,” announcement coming soon,” “we really are working on this now,” “were waiting until JJ finishes Super 8,” ….blah, blah, blah, blah.

If you come would come down from your high horse of judgment and actually pay attention to what is going on, you would see that actually not much of anything has been going on with the Supreme Court. Yes, they are perhaps finally making some progress and perhaps we will finally get an announcement soon, but that does not inexcuse the last 2 years of ineptitude and procrastination.

Pull your head out the sand and PAY ATTENTION! You just might learn something.

91. MJ - August 27, 2011

@77 “Now they say they’re taking their time to do the sequel right. I believe they’re trying to do just that.”

Yea, and this Congress has the best interests of the American people in mind. LOL

Dude., do you REALLY believe this???

92. Paul B. - August 27, 2011

88/89 — MJ, you should switch to decaf.

93. Odkin - August 27, 2011

@78 AJ –

Likewise, careerwise, and I’m glad we agree what this is really about. Hollywood is a business. Nobody moves until all the deals are done. They aren’t working on spec here or self-financing an indie film in search of a buyer. On the studio side, if they were fully confident in the creative team and the IP’s ability to generate the gross they desire, then it should have been full steam ahead two years ago.

A four year delay dissipates any momentum. Franchise properties (Hulk, Spidey, Batman, Superman) have been completed rebooted with new creative teams in about as much time. Only the people here know care or remember anything about the first movie now. The audience of “casuals” (as someone called them) has moved on.

There are some laughable attempts here to justify the delay as “good takes time” . No. Good takes talent. Good takes the start of actual work. Good takes proper funding. Good takes oversight of quality control. Good takes commitment. Time is the enemy of momentum, profit, .and careers (especially those of actors and actresses)

As to other posters, obviously nobody holds this delay against Quinto for God’s sake. This thread is about two things. Quinto’s performance as Spock, and what Quinto has to say about the delay. Two different issues, but some posters here seem to think the criticism of his performance and complaints about the delay are related somehow, and they’re not.

94. Odkin - August 27, 2011

@89 MJ – I don’t know about 77, but yes, THIS Congress (or at least most of the House) FINALLY has the best interests of the American public in mind.

I’m always up for a political debate. Perhaps we should have one in a forum that is even SLIGHTLY related to politics????

95. Thomas Jensen - August 27, 2011

Yes it would be nice if there was a mention of Vulcan’s destruction in the next film. An event of that importance should be recognized in some manner: by Spock, Spock’s Dad, Uhura, his son… Whoops! Why’d I say that?

Getting a bit out front on this one, I think…

96. OLLEY OLLEY OLLEY - August 27, 2011

It’ll be worth the Wait, you may not like to hear this but we all got spoilt during the 1990’s with with movies and multiple series pumping out Trek, we had it good then and there is no harm in waiting a little, heck the older Trek fans had to go through the70’s with only the animated series and fan fiction to get them by.

Caveat: I have to be positive because anytime I write anything negative about the supreme court my posts mysteriously disappear.

97. MJ - August 27, 2011

@90 “MJ, you should switch to decaf.”

I tell you what Paul, I will switch to drinking decaf beverages right before I post if you pledge to stop drinking alcoholic beverages right before you post? Deal?

@92. Odkin, politics aside, this Congress has single-handily, though the debt bill fiasco, eroded consumer and financial market confidence so much that they we are likely headed back into another recession. Their actions ruined the confidence of the public and Wall Street. Before that fiasco, we had slow growth and a slowly rising consumer confidence, but they all have now ruined that. I think we should vote every single one of those idiots out of office, republicans and democrats alike. There is a reason why Congress’s approval rating is at 13% — it’s because most of us believe they all SUCK and don’t deserve our vote.

98. Paul B. - August 27, 2011

94 – MJ, if I were drinking while posting, I’d probably find you amusing. As it is, I find it funny that YOU called ME cynical when you’re the one sneering at the producers and writers, griping about Congress, and so forth. Perhaps you misunderstand the word “cynical.”

Simply put, I enjoyed Trek ’09 and I believe the production/writing team cares enough to be trying to do a good job. They might screw it up in every possible way, just as I feared they would screw up the first one. But I am optimistic about the sequel and about the production team. Only time will tell.

Now, where’s the cynicism in that? How am I being “disaffected” there? Being upbeat, hopeful, and positive about the sequel is the exact OPPOSITE of cynicism.

Seriously, MJ, your responses to me have been WAY over the top. Histrionic. That’s why I made the decaf comment. If my comments were misspelled, rambling, or ALL IN CAPS, maybe your alcoholic-beverage retort would be fitting, but as it is… Really, just relax, okay? It’s a friendly little board about some movies.

99. MJ - August 27, 2011

@95. You are the ultimate cynic, my friend, as you are consistently attacking with your smart ass quips many of us who really care about the new movie and are legitimately disappointed about the continued delays and lack of any real informatin about what the hell is going on with our beloved franchise. And the process, you are doing just as much whining about us as we are about the situation with the sequel — the diffrence being that our whining is out of love and respect for this franchise, while yours is out of trying to score personal points on these boards.

I think it is funny how you first respond with your decaf remark, and then you launch into a personal crtique of me — thus creatively avoiding the substance of what those of us are concerned about with the Supreme Court. You are obvioiusly more comfortable taking potshots here against people you disagree with (ha ha ha, look at MJ using all caps….ha ha ha, go to decaf MJ…ha ha ha, MJ has a couple of mispellings) because you know, and we all know, that there is no real substance here to your arguments on the real issue of the sequel’s lack of progress.

The information we have over the past year on the sequel delays fully supports are arguments while refuting yours…you don’t have a leg to stand on here. So PROCESS OVER SUBSTANCE is the mantra you are falling back on; but thankfully, this board has me around to expose your mirage.

Paul B, no one here is fooled by your supposed above the fray philsophical views on us fans or the Trek sequesl situation. Maybe I can’t define “elitism,” but I know it when I see it!

100. Paul B. - August 27, 2011

95 – MJ, give it up. Stop wasting time and space with your attacks on me. And look up the words cynic and cynical: You are not using them correctly at all.

It’s not cynical to say “I’m optimistic” and “Time will tell.” No matter how many times you say so, I’ve not been cynical in this thread. Nor was I referring to YOU with my comments about misspellings and using all caps: I was using those as examples of things that *I* would be more likely to do if I were drinking. Had nothing to do with your typing skills at all. Sorry you took it that way.

This sequel will take as long as it takes, period. Nothing you or I say will affect that. So, rather than whining about it constantly, or attacking the writers for not being done on YOUR preferred schedule, I am choosing to be optimistic about the delays. Again, that is the exact opposite of cynicism.

This is my last comment to you because nobody likes to see these threads get hijacked. Feel free to keep attacking me, sneering at the production team, and misusing words. Feel free to stay on your high horse, claiming that YOU really care about the film while I’m “disaffected.” Meanwhile, I’ll stay over here in reality where words are used according to their meanings.

At least we agree on one thing: We need to vote out every single member of Congress, Republican and Democrat alike.

See? I’m even trying to find common ground with you. Hardly a cynical thing to do…

101. ncc50446 - August 27, 2011

The excitement of Star Trek 2009 is dying…To wait a couple years, ya, excitement would still be there, but to wait longer? Far too long, and the excitement dies out…I’m almost at the point that I don’t care when the movie is out…And the non-Trekies who watched the movie already don’t care when it comes out.
It’s like giving CPR, but waiting far too long to start, and then not breathing into the person often enough once you start…

102. mr. mugato - August 27, 2011

There is more to this than we are being told. This is a serious delay. They must be having trouble coming up with a story.

103. MJ - August 27, 2011


OK, I agree, let’s close this out. Yes, at least we agree on Congress, and maybe we are not as far apart as we think we are on Trek. I would hope you could at least meet me half way here and agree that while The Supreme Court made a great Trek movie, they have done a horrible job on time management and fan communication over the past year?

New topic anyone?

104. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 27, 2011

#69 – “IDIOTS!!! it aint zach quinto’s fault (or chris pine’s for that matter) that we have to wait nearly 4 years. zach does the job when he’s allowed to.”

Nobody here has ever suggested that it is any of the actors’ fault that the movie has not been filmed yet. I am sure that they are just as frustrated as we are, being in a similar position to the rest of us.

I don’t know why people are getting worked up about Cowboys & Aliens. This movie was not a Paramount production and writers Orci and Kurtzman were only two of a number of writers who worked on that movie. We have no idea how much of what was seen in C&A was due to their writing or due to the scripting done by others not associated with Bad Robot or Paramount. Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci are screenwriters, first and foremost, and they have their writing company, which allows them to write for anyone and not just for Bad Robot.

I posted a link some weeks back commenting on the financial crisis that has hit Hollywood in the last two or three years. It has only been since about February this year that overseas bankers (particularly German) have been willing to invest in certain film projects. There are a number of good worthy films that do not get big blockbuster box office receipts but should still get made. I believe that Star Trek falls into this category and that is more than OK!

It is interesting to note that Star Trek, in all its incarnations it seems, is very popular in Germany. Another little mention is that Chris Pine has done the voice-over for advertisements of the German made car BMW (3 series) seen by US consumers.

Believe me, I want everything work out and I pray that it does.

105. MJ - August 27, 2011

@104 “It is interesting to note that Star Trek, in all its incarnations it seems, is very popular in Germany.”

Just think then, if David Hasselhoff were brought in to the play the villain on the next Trek movie, box office receipts for the movie would go through the roof in Germany! :-)

106. MJ - August 27, 2011

@69 “sheesh! we all know they’ve signed a 3 movie contract. so it isnt like they will not be back in the next movie. they’ll be there…when they’re allowed to. no earlier no later.”

You may not know this, but the 3 movie contract expires 5 years after the release of the first movie. So given the lack of progress, we are only going to get this sequel, and then they will have to renegotiate with all the actors if thy want to do a 3rd movie.

107. Basement Blogger - August 27, 2011

@ 77, 78 Paul B.

1. Paul B. says, “Your response just begs for me to say, “Get a life,” again,” @ 77

First, let me thank you for not repeating your insult “about getting a life” to me and other Trekkers. We saw your insult on post 30 and it’s just so civil of you to not say it post 77. :-)

Second, let me reply some of the stuff you argue in 77. If you recall, Paramount had an initial release date for summer of 2012. It wasn’t “rabid fans” (your term) bothering J.J. Abrams to give us a date.. Paramount had contracted with Bad Robot to produce the next Star Trek film. The movie business is part commerce and part art. If it were all art, then it wouldn’t matter when or if the next movie came out. Delaying a tentpole movie because the creative team wants to do other projects won’t help Paramount’s stock prices.

Since you hate my example (@ 60) , let’s dispense with the metaphors. Fans and moviegoers are the customers. They pay the money to see the movie. They buy the DVD. They buy the merchandise. So important are moviegoers that studios will hire focus groups to watch cuts of movies. And for better or worse, the studio may change an artistic decision based on a focus group. Consequently, studios care about the opnions of moviegoeers. So, it’s really a bad idea to piss off the fans.

And one way to anger fans of a franchise is to delay the next installment because other projects took precedent. We all know that the writers want J.J. Abrams to direct. And he’s a fine director, though I wish he would lose the camera gymnastics. But Abrams had a lot of stuff he wanted to do before Star Trek. See “Super 8,” “Person of Interest” “Alcatraz” “Mission Impossible IV.” Compare him to the leaders of other franchises. From 1998 to 2003, George Lucas focused on Star Wars I, II and III and the Young Indiana Jones saga. Want to see how a leader is doing for a franchise in the future? In the next four years, James Cameron is focusing on the new Avatars with not much else on his docket.

And let me be clear. Nobody wants a rush job. But as I said, it’s rather obvious that Star Trek was pushed back for other projects. Blame Rick Berman for global warming, and Hurricane Irene but we know he was focused on one thing. Star Trek.

Let me respond to the “whining does no good” argument. It’s true, protesting or complaining may not speed up the writing process. Again , I emphasize that we don’t want a rush job. But protest does put the production team on notice. The customers are unhappy. The don’t want to be treated like second class citizens. It’s the motivation to “do better.”‘ Want an example? There was a lot of “whining” about Star Trek V. And guess what? The production team made sure they weren’t going to make a film like that for Star Trek VI.

2. Paul B says, “Really, you’re that worked up over my rather mild criticism of fans whining about the wait? ,,,, Save your outrage. ” @ 77

“Many of you comment without having a clue about writing, about the film business, or about anything outside of your own navels.” @78

This is what I call the pot calling the kettle black. I mean you insult us with the old “get a life” line and have to restrain yourself from calling us other names. Your post @ 30. Then you insult us again by calling us morons. @ 78 But you then you say that I’m getting worked up over mild criticism. And you’re not? I mean you’re the one insulting Trekkers. Regardless, I would hate to see you get angry.

3. Meet The Trekkers Without Lives. As I read this thead, I see that you’ve met some of the Trekkers who know nothing “outside of their own navels.’ I’m sure you’re going to meet more Trekkers without lives. I would listen to MJ on the whining issue. He’s a staunch defender of the Supreme Court so when he protests about them, it carries more credibility.

108. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 27, 2011

#62 Good point. I like how the writers showed the young Spock in this movie. Bear in mind, that Leonard Nimoy himself (the Spock) had a lot of input into how Quinto played the nuSpock in this movie.

Spock only appears to have specifically chosen/embraced the Human side, because of the box he has been put in by others. Odkin and others seem to think that Spock has to be seen as very vulcan because that is how he appeared in the prime universe. The reality is that he does not have to be specifically either. He just needs to be himself – a human/vulcan hybrid, with all that this means…He can’t be other than this, in actual fact.

109. MJ - August 27, 2011

@108. And as I mentioned previously, in TOS universe, the earliest we see Spock is in the pilot, “The Cage,” (where again he was an officer on Pike’s ship) where he is also showing more emotions. Thus, the consistency between an early spock struggling more with his human emotions, and sometimes when stressed, even wearing them on his sleeve, was exactly done that way in TOS. The behavior of “the early Spock” in Trek is thus full consistent between the Prime Universe and the nuTrek universe.

@107. Well said, BB. I agree completely.

110. Odkin - August 27, 2011

No, we think Spock has to be Vulcan because that is the only purpose of the damn character – to be the “cold intellect” foil to McCoy the “heart” character and Kirk the “action” character These are dramatic constructs, why do you keep imbuing them with free will???

111. Odkin - August 27, 2011

Attempts to explain Nimoy’s acting differently in the pilot and early episodes is FANFIC. The only explanation is that neither the writers nor Nimoy had the character figured out yet. The fact that they FIXED IT quickly because it DIDN’T WORK tells you what a bad idea it is to deliberately revisit.

112. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 27, 2011

#107 – Basement Blogger … YES!!!

113. Smike - August 27, 2011

@101: Unfortunately; I have to agree. The excitement generated in 2009 by both the movie’s quality and it’s BO gross is slowly dying. It’s a VERY dangerous move to delay the sequel’s release businesswise. A four year span of time is not standard with blockbuster tentpole franchises. Of course it’s not the 90s with all those TV episodes and a NextGen movie every other year, but four years is far too long. If you look at some of the most successful mainstream franchises out there, you’ll realize that virtually all of them work with much shorter gaps inbetween:

Star Wars – three years between all movies within the respective trilogy

LOTR – only one year between the movies

Harry Potter – 12 to 18 months between the installments

POTC – three years after the first one and then two subsequent movies within 10 months – and then: FOUR years till part 4, and lots of people lst interest

Transformers – two years and still making billions

Batman (NU) – three years till TDK

Spider-Man – two years and then three years and then tey let the old saga die

You see, virtually none of the bigshots out there are in any need for longer intervals between the individual installments to regenerate interest – that’s an urban myth. On the other hand, breaks of four years or more often meant oblivion for some franchises – or at least minor setbacks that could only be compensated by partially rebooting the movie franchises.

So yes, there is real danger that this four year break would harm the reboot series.

At least, “Super 8″ was a movie worthwhile…

114. Smike - August 27, 2011

Now, IF the 2013 sequel is a major success, I’d like to see the third one within a two-year span…It would be best if they decided to shoot Trek III and IV back-to-back and release them in 2015 and 2016, the latter celebrating the 50th anniversary of Trek.

Then in 2017, cooinciding with the 30th anniversary of TNG, give us a new TV show…I’d root for a Neroverse version of TNG with female version of Data and Leslie Crusher :-)

115. MJ - August 27, 2011

@111 “Attempts to explain Nimoy’s acting differently in the pilot and early episodes is FANFIC. The only explanation is that neither the writers nor Nimoy had the character figured out yet. The fact that they FIXED IT quickly because it DIDN’T WORK tells you what a bad idea it is to deliberately revisit.”

Like it or not, The Cage is canon. And so yes, we do need to explain the emotion of Spock in that episode as part of the character of Spock. And guess what, it fits in perfectly with the way Spock was portrayed in Trek 09 at the same time of his life. He was more emotional and stugglng less successfully to control his human half in these younger periods before the Kirk-Enterprise days, and The Cage and Trek 09 are fully consistent in this regard.

You may not like it, and you may be correct in that TOS series writers messed this up, but canon is canon, and therefore we have the Cage as definitive Trek canon — which again, happens to match very nicely with the way Spock is portrayed by Quinto and the writers in Trek 09.

Again, you don’t have to like this. It is what it is — canon!

116. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 27, 2011

Wow, Odkin. You really are something else. So not even Leonard Nimoy had the character of Spock figured out? That what we saw in Star Trek and in the Cage (TOS) was FANFIC? Really? No, the Spock written and shown by the original writers and by Leonard Nimoy (Spock’s co-creator) is not how YOU think he should be. It is YOU who really has no idea who the character of Spock is or could be, either in the prime universe or in this alternate universe.

Perhaps you should go and write some fanfic of your own and let the rest of us watch and enjoy the characters as presented by professional writers, their creators and the professional actors charged with bringing these characters to life in a real and meaningful way to audiences.

117. MJ - August 27, 2011

Also, Spocks progression in the original series make sense in the context of my post in 115. He starts off in The Cage as not being in great control of his human half. Then, during the main run of TOS he does a pretty good job, with some faltering her and there, of holding back his human half. But then, by The Motion Picture, he has gone full logic with Kholinar. So we see a natural progression that starts with the Spock/human in The Cage and ends with the Spock/Vulcan in The Motion Picture. Thus, canon itself supports this natural progression, and the super-logical Spock of The Motion Picture only reinforces this naturual progession of Spock’s character.

So if there is any doubt by anyone on this argument I am making regarding The Cage, go back and watch Spock in The Motion Picture and you will see for yourself the conclusion of his gradual change from his younger days (having problems controlling his human half) to his older days at the beginning of the movies when his is nearly entirely Vulcan. (Obviously the V’ger incident mellowed him again and finally brought peace to him in his integration struggle of his Human and Vulcan halves, but that is another story).

118. Chris Basken - August 27, 2011

I’ve been wanting to post this for a while, and Quinto talking about the new movie involving Vulcans finding a new home prompted me.

If I were to write the next Trek, this is the direction I’d go in (and Roberto Orci certainly has permission to take anything that sounds interesting).

* With the destruction of Vulcan, the Federation begins pouring resources into projects that would help the survivors find a new home.
* A beautiful, brilliant young scientist named Dr. Carol Marcus finds her fringe “Genesis Project” brought to interstellar attention. While a dedicated and somewhat introverted women of science, she also finds herself becoming a minor celebrity.
* Two ships are assigned to find suitable worlds to test out the Genesis Project, which is racing forward with all the new funding and help (largely from Vulcan scientists) it’s getting. These ships are the Enterprise and the Reliant.
* Dr. Marcus is stationed aboard the Enterprise. She doesn’t get along at all with the jock-like Kirk, but finds the cool, professional Spock much more interesting. She’s apparently not moved by Kirk’s attempts to woo her.
* The Enterprise explores the Ceti Alpha system, which boasts at least one Vulcan-sized planet that is otherwise uninhabited (Ceti Alpha 6). Dr. Marcus is about to declare the planet suitable when they detect a small sub warp vessel on the outer edge of the system. They zip over to check it out — it’s the Botany Bay.
* It’s hard to tell, but it appears the BB was headed toward Ceti Alpha 5, a habitable world. Spock can’t determine if that’s the ship’s intended destination or if it’s just passing through the system. Kirk says that if it’s the ship’s intended destination, the occupants have a claim on the system and they can’t run the Genesis test without their approval. Spock and Marcus cite “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” but Kirk is adamant. They beam over to the BB.
* Meanwhile, Khan’s sleep chamber woke him when the computer detected the Enterprise. Faking weakness, Khan manages to be brought back aboard the Enterprise for medical help.
* Fun space stuff ensues, with Khan eventually taking control of the ship. Carol Marcus plays the role of MacGuyvers from Space Seed — falling for Khan’s charms — except it’s all a ruse to gain his confidence and return control of the Enterprise to Kirk, for whom she eventually develops feelings.
* Meanwhile, the Reliant shows up to “help” and is captured by Khan. They battle in the Mutara Nebula and it culminates in Khan blowing up the Genesis device to try to kill Kirk. However, rather than Spock dying to save the ship, Carol Marcus sacrifices herself so a new world can be born for the Vulcans.

119. Ahmed Abdo - August 27, 2011

All I’m going to say that I had enough of hearing no-news from the so called “supreme court” & Abrams.

And, really, four years to make a bloody sequel, REALLY ??????

120. Odkin - August 27, 2011

MJ and Keachick AGAIN completely missing the point …

READ please:
“Attempts to explain Nimoy’s acting differently in the pilot and early episodes is FANFIC. The only explanation is that neither the writers nor Nimoy had the character figured out yet. The fact that they FIXED IT quickly because it DIDN’T WORK tells you what a bad idea it is to deliberately revisit.

I didn’t say it never happened. Yes, screen is canon. I said WHY it happened. You fanfic writers are deciding it’s part of Spocks’s character evolution. That’s NOT for you to decide. I can make up a backstory too – hmmm… “The Cage” was near Pon Far time, and in WNMHGB he had a Vulcan upset tummy. The TRUTH is what I said. They just didn’t have it figured out yet. Oops.

The important point, which you either choose to ignore or don’t understand is this: “The fact that (the writers/Nimoy) FIXED IT quickly because it DIDN’T WORK tells you what a bad idea it is to deliberately revisit.”

It looked stupid. It sounded stupid. It undermined his character. It was a leftover of when Number One was supposed to be the coool intellect, and Spock… something else. It didn’t work. There is no NEED to spend one more second of precious screen time on it especially when we are getting real Trek at the rate of 2 hours every four years.

121. MJ - August 27, 2011

@120. Odkin, your missing the point. It does not make any difference as to “the source” of why Spock behaved why he did in The Cage. It is canon, and it also fits in with the eventual progression of his character in The Motion Picture. If this happened by chance or to the writers or Nimoy not being familar with the character, well that has no bearing to the Spock we see on screen in The Cage. We have to accept that Spock, and accept that he was more emotional in his early years.

And this tracks very nicely with the Spock we see in Trek 09 — a Spock who is still developing the reserves to control his human half, and not always succeeding like he will do in later years.

Whether the original and new writers and Nimoy and Quinto “lucked into” this nice alignment or not doesn’t matter — this in canon, and the canon between TOS and Trek 09 is very nicely consistent with the more human behavior of Spock. This really can’t be argued — it is there on the screen for us all to see — case closed!

122. Red Dead Ryan - August 27, 2011

I think Christopher Nolan does the best at planning when he shoots movies. He gave himself a three-year gap between “Batman Begins” and “The Dark Knight” to film “The Prestige”. All three of those movies are great, done well at the box office, and have been critically acclaimed. After “The Dark Knight”, Nolan chose to do “Inception” before returning to direct “The Dark Knight Returns”, which he chose to release in summer 2012. Sure it’s a four-year wait between TDK and TDKR, but Nolan planned it that way because he wanted to make sure that he’d have enough time to finish “Inception” (which is yet another instant classci) before working on the third Batman movie. Only when Nolan was ready did he say he would return for TDKR. He sets deadlines and meets them with great movies.

Christopher Nolan doesn’t do a lot of interviews, and that helps. He keeps quiet because he knows things can change, and always gives himself enough wiggle room and time to make sure his movies don’t suffer.

I think J.J Abrams, Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman can learn a thing or two from Christopher Nolan.

123. Ahmed Abdo - August 27, 2011

@122, I will second that. The trio can learn a lot from Christopher Nolan.

124. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 27, 2011

The way Spock has been shown in TOS followed by the movies involving the TOS prime universe characters has already been decided by the creators, writers and actors. The nuSpock we see Star Trek 09 has already been decided by the new writers and actor, as well as by the original actor, Leonard Nimoy who was also the co-creator the prime universe Spock, upon which this nuSpock is based. No fanfiction was written. In fact, referring to any of the sixties TOS TV series as being fanfiction make no sense and is complete rubbish.

Odkin – it is not for YOU to decide otherwise and insist that the Spock creator(s), writers and actors were wrong in presenting the Spocks in the way that they did and then telling us here that we are wrong to interpret the two Spocks in the way that we have. This is how they have developed this character and they are free to do just that. As MJ has repeatedly pointed out, correctly, nuSpock’s character is consistent with what was shown of Spock before in earlier Star Trek TOS TV episodes and movies. The Bad Robot team do appear to understand the TOS characters which can only be a good thing.

No, you don’t get it!

125. Magic_Al - August 27, 2011

Star Trek is a weekly television series, not the Olympics. Heck, with the Summer Games and the Winter Games we get some Olympics every two years! Maybe there needs to be a second Star Trek movie franchise with a different cast and production team on an alternating schedule.

126. Vultan - August 27, 2011

I agree the “Supreme Court” could learn a thing or two from Chris Nolan, who seems to mostly keep his focus on one movie at a time. It was reported last fall (at that he handed over creative control of the new Superman movie to Zack Snyder to focus on The Dark Knight Rises.

Smart move.

127. Jack - August 27, 2011

120 First – relax. Nimoy has said he did what the director told him to. They figured out the characters as they went along.

Some review site (can’t remember which) would frequently refer to the Trek Rationalizer, which allows fans to explain away plot holes, continuity errors, preposterous science, lousy effects, lame props, lazy writing, out-of-character behavior and just plain old mistakes. It ain’t real.

Keachick, with all due respect, sometimes you make things up/speculate. But, it’s not entirely impossible, storywise (based on TOS), that the younger Spock had problems handling his emotions or interacting with humans. This is, what, at least a good decade (more, I think, but I can’t remember the Stardate) before TOS. But, you’re right.. we were never told that onscreen. But,we were also never told that he didn’t have those problems.

Spock did struggle with his “human half” (a concept I always found a little bizarre) and other Vulcans were, in comparison, much more comfortable with love, for example (Sarek, T’Pring). Sarek wasn’t played as cold or emotionless. And this idea of two Spocks, one of whom he was fighting to keep sublimated, was there, — The Naked Time, This Side of Paradise, All Our Yesterdays. Heck, even The Motion Picture.

Please correct me if I’m totally wrong, but I haven’t heard anyone involved in the movie refer to Spock smiling in the Cage, or yelling in The Corbomite Maneuver as the reason for younger Spock’s less serene exterior. But it (the thin skin) doesn’t seem entirely inconsistent with the character.

And even if it was, things change.

And Quinto looks angry, smug and like he wants to eat our brains, well, all the time.

Bottom line, I don’t agree that it undermined the character. But that’s just me. I would like to see Quinto’s Spock, well, a bit brighter. And it would be nice to see a bit more of that calm exterior — which is tough to do. Nimoy always made it seem like there was a constant flood of thoughts, calculations and emotion going on underneath that placid, inscrutable face. Other actors playing Vulcans (Curtis, Tuvok, the TNG guest stars) were just plain wooden. As of the last flick, there were no secrets as to what Quinto’s Spock was feeling or thinking.

But, hey… maybe this Spock will be a little healthier, emotionally. Although that doesn’t make for great movie going, or a good, tragic hero. Heck, when I was a kid, I saw Spock’s rejection and attempted suppression of all emotion (and, actually, both Spock and Kirk’s rejection of emotional ties and relationships) as something to aspire to. I may bill Paramount for the subsequent years of therapy.

It’s interesting that, 20 years later, Roddenberry came out with a character (and he did it even earlier, with Questor, I think) who couldn’t feel emotion and wished he could. And, heck, Spock himself eventually figured the value of emotion (and that nobody’s perfect).

128. Odkin - August 27, 2011

@127 Jack-

Thanks for making your points so cogently. I agree with all of them.

Unless Spock has that undercurrent of lonlieness, self-deprivation, and childish excitement about curiosity, he doesn’t have any layers beyond that of the “cold intellect” character that drives the plot. Nimoy and Mark Lenard figured it out and shunned the bored “robot” inflections that most Vulcan actors fall into. Interesting that Nimoy, in his “purest” Vulcan mode at the beginning of TMP seems to be deliberately doing the “robot”.

I never thought about it, but Kirk largely does the same self-deprivation thing. Spock wants to be a good Vulcan and avoids the temptation of his half-human weaknesses by rejecting the caring advances of Nurse Chapel, usually coldly as if to prove something to himself. Kirk cherishes his ship as much as Spock wants to prove he is a true Vulcan. Kirk knows another woman would take him away from the Enterprise and he can;t let that happen. As a red-blooded American boy, he’s substituting all that sweet alien tail for the true love he can never have.

129. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 27, 2011

“Keachick, with all due respect, sometimes you make things up/speculate.”

Yes I do make things up as when I relate parts of my own story line about the Menosian planets, the woman Jasmia, the nuli vessels etc. Yes, these are fictional, my fanfiction, if you will. I also speculate as to how various other scenarios that I think up could be incorporated into the next movie. I have never said otherwise. Other contributors on this site have also done this and I, for one, hope that maybe Bob Orci may like an idea or two of mine and well…who knows…

However, in this debate about the character of Spock, I am basing my opinions on what I have seen on the television series and in the movies. I guess some of it could be deemed simply my own particular (wayward) interpretation and speculation, but that could apply to anyone watching the same shows and forming their own opinions about the characters and stories they see. Odkin’s interpretation of Spock, however, does seem to be more at odds with what has been shown in TOS and movies.

On the second disc of the two-DVD set, we see where Leonard Nimoy has a lot to do with Zachary Quinto, talking to him about the character of Spock and the best way to play him etc. Yes, Leonard Nimoy took direction from JJ Abrams who was, after all, the movie’s director, as did all the actors. However, much was worked out beforehand, with JJ making sure it all came together properly in the end. At least, that was my impression after watching the DVD Special Features – Casting. Am I also making this up? Am I drawing the right conclusions from what is shown on the second DVD?

130. JP - August 28, 2011

There was a time we waited 10 years. Damn kids :P

131. AJ - August 28, 2011


Red Dead Ryan:

‘Star Trek’ is not ‘Batman.’

‘Star Trek’ has been/is still/on the air for 45 years.

‘Batman’ is a comic-book, with an now iconic 1960s TV show, ever-darker musings on paper pages, and several celluloid re-inventions, some shite, and others great.

‘Star Trek’ begs scrutiny every minute of the day. ‘Batman’ does not. Where the hell is Robin? Batgirl? Who cares, really?

In ‘Star Trek,’ even the previously-esteemed Supreme Court will see to it that the tribble in Scotty’s ‘office’ on Delta-Vega multiplies, and we all notice it (as well as the poorly-named Delta Vega. Why??).

It’s one reason Bob Orci is so terrified of the project. We want to know what the new seatbelts are made of, and why the new Dustbin Collectors, or whatever they’re called, don’t look like erect tits anymore (The Cage, WNMHGB). Hey, why don’t they?

It’s true, just as Chris Nolan had to do “Inception” (blecch), all our boys had to ‘get their ya-yas out’ doing stuff like “Super 8″ and “Cowboys & Aliens”(Why?).

But now, it’s back to the grindstone, boys and girls. Real work requires real people. Are you ready to enlist?

132. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 28, 2011

Title: Star Trek 1.5 – In Search of a Decision

133. dmduncan - August 28, 2011

As I’ve said over and over and over and over again, just about everyone keeps treating these characters as if they are ONLY real people facsimiles when they and their relationship to each other are ALSO metaphor. That’s the way Roddenberry played them; that’s what I see when I watch TOS. And though there is a balance to be struck {ST.09 didn’t find that balance because a) it was absorbed with their role as real people facsimiles and b) that would have been too much to do for an origin story in which they had to be established FIRST as real people} between them as real people and them as metaphor, if they let one overwhelm the other then we will have a Star Trek that has been simplified as mere entertainment with less philosophical structure to think about to distinguish it from typical TV level entertainment, which TOS was more than.

For a motion picture which is supposed to improve on its small screen origins, that loss would be a tragic failure to rise to the level of philosophic quality that the original show had, and it would also be a failure to say that diversity of ideas is okay. Star Trek shouldn’t HAVE to follow the pattern of nearly every other story we see, and yet conformity to traditional Hollywood storytelling seems to be the tenor of things fans want in their new Star Treks.

Sure, it’s a new universe. Which is the excuse everyone seems to use whenever they want to argue that these characters are now free to be or do ANYthing. Except that, no, they aren’t. At least I do not believe that they are that free. Freer than they would have been by this time in the prime universe, sure, but as ST.09 made clear, for many things the song remains the same, and I’m not just talking about the uniforms.

If the first movie was about anything it was about how these characters are still the same and make the same choices despite what changes Nero caused. Philosophically, ST.09 was the anti-Nemesis. In Nemesis Picard’s clone is essentially shaped by his circumstances and turns out evil; but in ST.09 circumstances provide obstacles not barriers for the characters to express who they are, and they end up in the same place despite harsher conditions. It would be inconsistent to abandon that premise for the sequel. So how are you going to have a drastically different Spock, apparently played as a male version of T’Pol, when that was never Spock Prime?

Gene Roddenberry also said that he’d had so much trouble with emotion in his own life that he wanted a character who was free of all that and that’s why he created Spock. It’s a theme that remained with him. After Spock he created Questor, which was Spock as he would appear in TMP looking for ultimate answers, and then again Data in TNG. The theme was clearly important to Gene Roddenberry for a reason.

So I would be sadly disappointed if they destroyed one of the unique features of Star Trek — i.e., the metaphorical role of these characters as logic, emotion, and the balance between — in order to make Star Trek philosophically indistinguishable from typical summer movie fare. With all the movies that are made each year that DON’T do what Star Trek does, I don’t see how anybody thinks it’s a triumph for Star Trek to be the same way and not to do it anymore either.

Oh, and I liked the first movie and they didn’t establish the metaphor there, so I must be contradicting myself, right? Wrong. As covered in the first paragraph. It’s all about the equilibrium that the characters return to — just like the rest of us have — between see-sawing to extremes. That equilibrium both defines who they are and generates the metaphor; despite what drama temporarily pulls them this way or that, there is a core in each of them that holds “constant as the northern star.”

That’s easy to lose. I hope they do not lose it.

134. Mel - August 28, 2011

Spock acting like a human all the time makes the character more ordinary. He is the only alien main character. If he acts like a human all the time, there won’t be any real diversity portrayed among the Federation races. Spock is a much more interesting character, when he acts more logical and unemotional than your normal human. I like to see aliens, which don’t only look different than humans, but also act different. Aliens with a different culture and behaviour. That was really lacking in the last movie.

135. VulcanFilmCritic - August 28, 2011

All I can say at this point is I hope this movie gets written, shot, and distributed before THE BIG ONE hits LA. (With all the seismic activity within The Ring of Fire, this is not an unlikely event.)

As for the difference in the Spocks of the pilots and the rest of the first season, it is always fun to read a lot into it and make speculations as to what was going on in his life or in his head, but the explanation from Leonard NImoy himself, has always been, that Spock simply hadn’t been “born” yet. Even after a few episodes of the show, the Spock that we know STILLl hadn’t been “born.”

Now if the writers themselves sought to explain Spock’s behavior as leaning more towards a human model because he found himself living among humans, then I would be willing to accept that as canon, but no such explanation was ever offered, even in “The Managerie.”

From “I Am Not Spock”:
He was definitely very close to being “born” by that time, but hadn’t become a “real” Vulcan yet in “Where No Man.” The first scene in that episode shows Captain Kirk having a friendly 3-D chess game with his second-in-command; Spock wears a gold tunic and a definite smirk as he tells Kirk, “I’ll have you checkmated your next move.”
When the captain makes reference to irritation, Spock cocks his head, still smirking, as he says: “Irritation? ah, yes, one of your Earth emotions…”
He definitely shows more emotion than is Vulcanly proper, and still possesses a a touch of the “first officer syndrome,” bellowing out his reports with a lot more volume than necessary on such a compact bridge. and he makes a shockingly violent recommendation for one whose people are total pacifists-that Kirk kill Lockwood’s character, Gary Mitchell, before Mitchell’s psychic powers become too great.
But signs of the Vulcan are here, too: the calm, even intonation, the hands clasped primly behind the back, the clipped “affirmatives” and “negatives” the ever-ready dissertations on logic. Kirk’s final line in the episode-after Spock confesses that he, too, felt for the now dead Mitchell-seems fitting: “There still may be hope for you, Mr. Spock.”
Indeed there was. A Vulcan was about to be born.
-Leonard Nimoy

Even well into the first season you still have an emotive Mr. Spock: the suppressed smiles in “Charley X,” a barely in-control, angry Mr. Spock in “The Galileo Seven” and an excited Spock observing the split Captain Kirks in “The Enemy Within.” None of these need to be explained by fan fiction, and yet they exist.

The fun of this character is that he really does struggle with the suppression of emotion, and not just during the time of mating. Even in the second season when you would presume that Spock has his emotions totally under control you still see flashes of intense emotion. in “Patterns of Force” an almost breathlessly excited Spock suddenly understands and explains why humans enjoy gambling.

I don’t know what the members of the Supreme Court think of Spock, whether there is some emotional progression from the pilots to ST:TMP or whether this will be reflected in the development of Mr. Quinto’s character.
Certainly NuSpock is less in control than the Spock we knew, but he is also more chilly in a different way. He can turn it off as well as show it, as in the scene where Lt. Uhura asks if she can help him and he coldly says basically do your job as well as you can.

I hope Mr. Quinto will continue to consult with Mr. Nimoy on the development of this character. I think they both might lob a few surprises at us.

136. dmduncan - August 28, 2011

There is, perhaps, no better instance of the metaphorical aspect of the relationships played out to very dramatic effect than City On The Edge of Forever, where the emotional McCoy would have saved Edith Keeler, destroying their future forever, where coldly logical Spock advises the captain that she must die to save their future, and where Kirk in LOVE with her, must decide what is to be, as he is pulled between the positions of Spock and McCoy. Unlike Spock he decides what to do through great personal cost, and he experiences the cost unlike anyone else, including McCoy. But he does it. And that is the balance between reason (Spock) and emotion (McCoy) that Roddenberry sought to show through Kirk, represented more poignantly than ever before or since.

Spock cannot be the balance, or the franchise has grown two left feet. Kirk is the star of the franchise exactly because he is the balance.

And if you think it doesn’t matter, well then maybe I can sell you my idea for a new interpretation of Superman: Superman is almost just like us. He can’t fly, but he can jump about 5 feet straight up. He can’t bend steel with his bare hands, but he can handle aluminum if it’s not TOO thick. If you shoot him with a gun he’ll die like anyone else, but if you shoot him with a BB gun he’ll yelp and the swelling will go down a little faster than with most people. He doesn’t wear glasses as Clark Kent, and there’s no unrequited love between him and Lois; those two go at it like rabbits every chance they get. Sounds Super, doesn’t it? No? Well at least the name is the same.

137. VulcanFilmCritic - August 28, 2011

Sorry. The quote is from “I Am Spock.”

138. Odkin - August 28, 2011

Changing the subject!

I have a question for the various historians here, especially those familiar with the novels, and yes, even fanfic over the years.

It is established in both NuTrek and “City on the Edge of Forever” that time disruptions causing changes in major events essentially cause new universes to splinter off. In NuTrek, of course that’s true with the Kelvin, in City it’s true with the death of Edith Keeler (Nazis win, no Federation).

It’s explained more linearly in City, but alternative universes in Trek are also well established. Which brings me to my question:

Has the conjecture ever been put in writing somewhere that the “Keeler Event” was the root cause of the creation of the Mirror Universe? Where did it appear?

I’m not looking for “I remember…” or “I heard…” or “I thought that too”. I’m looking for any specific established prior ownership of the idea and where it appeared.

Certainly a Nazi past could evolve into an Empire future, especially since so much of our rocket and space technology developed out of German scientists anyway.

139. boborci - August 28, 2011 r right. We can learn to keep quiet.

140. Charla - August 28, 2011

I hope everyone is proud of themselves.

I think since Bob now feels like he needs to be quiet while everyone else is screaming and bickering amongst one another, and we seem to no longer have maturity within our ranks here, I am going take leave from this site until the new movie comes out.

Comparing Bob and the others to Nolan? Why? Nolan wouldn’t have came to a website of fans and tolerated what Bob has here. These are PEOPLE behind the writing of our favorite movie, not machines. Bob chose to come and participate in our exchanges but was welcomed only when it served your purpose of having input about what is in the movie, who was in the movie, the storyline, the timeline, the stage props and now when it is released. When things don’t work out, everyone starts and never ceases complaining about the delays, not really even knowing why- as if it is any of our business anyway.

Coming to this website – it was fun for awhile, until all the bickering and nit-picking started. (I’m all for free speech, but this has become redundant, and just mean spirited at times) But thanks for the website Anthony. I will check in from time to time to see the other news going on about the other projects the writers and actors are involved in.

And to Bob and crew- if you see this, some of us appreciate what you have done with the movie. While I personally would have loved to have seen it in 2012, understand that it is what it is, and still support your work and endeavors. (even those without the Star Trek logo)

I also know that when the movie comes out, it will be a huge success like the first one. I believe that despite all the negative statements that I, and everyone here (for the most part) will be amongst the first ones to view it. I look forward to when I see the teaser trailers air, because it is when I see those that I know for sure that I will soon be watching it! :D

I wish you and the other posters here the very best both professionally and personally.

Live Long & Prosper!

141. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 28, 2011

#139 – boborci …

Oh no please Mr. Bob Orci… do not listen to RDR … Please talk to us… we need to listen to you, do not be quiet…LOL

RDR is who needs can learn to keep quiet …+LOL

:-) :-)

142. Odkin - August 28, 2011

I always wondered how the lawyers that boborci has to deal with allow him to post here. The forums are rife with theories, ideas, suggestions, plot ideas and stories from budding “helpers” who would give anything for any kind of credit on a Trek production.

Any idea posted here would have to be either automatically ruled off-limits (even good ones unfortunately) or used at risk of lawsuit. The best plagarism defense is the writer proving “I never saw that idea before”, but that’s not possible when you’re actually here reading posts.

It’s theoretically possible to contact the original poster and negotiate a release, but has that ever happened in the history of fandom?

143. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 28, 2011

#140 – Charla…

Well, Charla just as there are people who only praise, there are others who only criticize… I think Bob Orci and other producers are very smart guys and have a great sense of humor to understand this… this is the internet… no use to be very sensitive about… a bit of cynicism is necessary to survive in the Internet world… and they are traveling to the final frontier, the guys are strong… I hope and trust!

:-) :-)

144. dmduncan - August 28, 2011

Charla makes a good general point. Think of it this way. Imagine that your FRIEND was a moviemaker. Would you talk to him the way fans in here sometimes do to Bob, saying things like “You’re a hack!” It seems to me that some folks go beyond being honest about not liking something he has done, whatever it is and for whatever reason, to just being brutal, which is actually dishonest if you wouldn’t do that to somebody face to face.

145. MJ - August 28, 2011

@140. Charla, while I will agree with you that there have been a few instances of some people being critical and mean-spirited regarding the Supreme Court (and I don’t approve of those “JJ haters” at all), for my part, I would have no qualms whatsoever about telling Bob exactly what I think face-to-face. I would complement Bob on how much I loved Trek 09 and apprecited their screenplay and the great experience I had with the movie, and how much I am looking forward to the sequel. Following this, as we downed a beer together, I would say: “Dude, you know, you guy’s time management skills and fan communications skills reallys suck.” And you know what, I would expect him, being one-on-one wiht me, to say something like, “yea MJ, you are right, we blew it this past year; lesson learned.”

I find in the real world that people actually appreciate honesty, both positive and negative, when you interact with them in person. And I can assure you, people in positions of power or fame – they know an ass-kisser when they see one, and that is not the kind of feedback they are looking for. And unfortunately, there are a lot of ass-kissers on these boards.

146. Jack - August 28, 2011

Jeepers. He didn’t say, yet, ‘you guys are dicks, I’m outta here!’

Wasn’t he just responding to post 122?

About the writers not publicly committing themselves to a deadline, or giving hints of progress or a possible, tentative start date when they don’t really know, or it might change?

“Christopher Nolan doesn’t do a lot of interviews, and that helps. He keeps quiet because he knows things can change, and always gives himself enough wiggle room and time to make sure his movies don’t suffer.”

That’s (the supposedly conflicting statements on progress) is what a bunch of people have been complaining about on here (the [not real quotes] ‘we’re 80% done,’ then ‘we’re 50% done’) and theorizing about all sorts of causes and comparing their progress to Trek movies from 30 years ago, about which we really only know what we’ve been told.

Hell, people have been calling the team liars. Bottom line is, and I’m guessing (although I’ve faced a lot of shifting deadlines, and misjudged how long things would take, and said ‘I’m almost done!’ and believed it, but as a writer and tv/web producer, not a feature filmmaker), tentative schedules can change for about a billion different reasons — look at all the movies that were in development hell for years…

Even the oft-cited Oh-yeah-well-Nick-Meyer-wrote-Trek-II-in-45-minutes tale isn’t exactly a success story. He did it out a bunch of rejected scripts and story ideas, which all took time. And he was doing it on a low-budget movie.

144. Yep, we should be civil. Heck, even if it wasn’t your friend, would you heckle him? A few here might, but hopefully not many. Keep it about the work. And, yeah, if we were all in an auditorium with the guy, I bet there’d still be a couple of people shouting out “you’re a hack!” If we were in a small room and he could see all of us and he had a list of our names and where we lived, there’d still be someone who’d come out with “Hey Bob, Transporters II sucked…” and then he’d remind us of how much money the thing (and he) made.

147. MJ - August 28, 2011

@146. Jack, yea, very good points. And to further build on this, I think if you are leading a franchise you should take only one of two strategies regarding fan communications:

— Christopher Nolan method — no info, no communication, no problems.

— Peter Jackson method — full communication, constant interaction and involvement with fans.

The Supreme Court has tried to do kind of a 50% solution here, and that obviously has not panned out, as it has created confusion and acrimony. For the third movie, The Supreme Court should either go with the Nolan or the Jackson method, because as we now seen, a 50% solution does not work.

148. Jack - August 28, 2011

Man, I write ridiculously long posts.

Has Anthony ever done a poll on whether or not, for what it’s worth, we think New Vulcan (which needs a better name) should play a big part in the next movie? Me, I’m kind of hoping it doesn’t. I’m terrified that they’ll go all Aliens and have the poor Vulcan colonists finding out, the hard way, that Spook’s suitable planet isn’t so suitable. I’m repeating myself again, but… they’re Vulcans, they’ll be fine. They don’t need new Spock as their liberator.

Quinto’s take on where his character might go from here is, and I don’t mean this too insultingly, the obvious, predictable one… (and he did choose to take off with the Enterprise at the end, although I guess the decision could, boringly, haunt him later). Ideally, a bunch of time has passed.

And, I’m hoping we get a little of Kirk as inspired by “one of Horatio Nelson’s captains in the South Pacific, six months away from home and three months away by communication.” I still like the idea of a 5-year… or however many year… mission, for that sense of autonomy.

149. Jack - August 28, 2011

147. “For the third movie, The Supreme Court should either go with the Nolan or the Jackson method, because as we now seen, a 50% solution does not work.”

Agreed. Jackson has an (arguably) slightly easier job with the story, if not the script… there’s much less of a need to keep secrets, and this has been in the works for years… I wonder if that approach would work for something like Trek.

The interaction with fans here is fun, but I’m hoping they focus on making the movie and not on sneak peaks, ARGs, or web docs on their progress (a la Superman Returns). I can wait for DVD extras — me, I don’t want spoilers before the thing is in the theatre.

150. dmduncan - August 28, 2011

146. Jack – August 28, 2011

Sometimes I think Bob gets bashed just BECAUSE he’s actively employed as a successful screenwriter. Some folks worship all things Hollywood and others bash the same. And I am sure there’s some jealousy too; I’ve seen the complaints about how much work these guys get. Thing is, by participating in forums like this Bob shows himself NOT to be a typical Hollywood personage yet he still gets pounded like he is one. I tend to think that exalting people because they’re involved in Hollywood or attacking them for that reason are both equally wrong. And I think some people get a kick out of what they think is cutting down the big shot. But I don’t see big shots. I just see people who sometimes do a really cool job and who deserve the same respect as anybody else you don’t know and wouldn’t talk that way too.

151. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 28, 2011

#150 I completely agree with you. I hope that Bob is not put off coming here because of some of the rudeness

Bob Orci – I hope I don’t come off as appearing rude or anything. Some people (in everyday life) find me at times a little blunt and/or perhaps a little over-the-top/wayward. I have no desire to be rude to anyone (unless they start and continue being rude and insulting towards me first) or to offend anyone – not you, not Chris Pine, not ANYone.

BTW -that does not make me an ass-kisser either.

152. roy - August 28, 2011

131.- It’s not that Bob Orci is terrified at all. It’s just my guess as I dont think he’s been involved with an internet franchise fan base like Star Trek where for some passions run extremely high. As for Star Trek begging scrutiny, it’s entertainment and that’s the way it should be treated not like it’s a fact of life.

122.- I completely agree with your stance and so does Bob.

139- I think it was in 1990 when William Shatner appeared on Saturday Night Live and essentially stated that trekkers should get a life. In the aftermath a firestorm of controversary got ignited and figuratively for a while he became so hated by the die hard fans. To Shatner’s credit, he really didn’t care and ignored the criticism that came his way as life goes on. From this point of view, you’re not the first person who has upset fans for whatever reason and you certainly wont be the last. I just hope you dont take the unecessary criticism personally and in turn take it to heart as there are more important things in life to worry about. This is just my point of view.

153. MJ - August 28, 2011

@152 “To Shatner’s credit, he really didn’t care and ignored the criticism that came his way as life goes on.”

“To Shatner’s credit, huh? Instead of an introspective Shatner assessing this philosphically and deciding to ignore it, could it possibly be instead that Shat ignored it becuase he has a bloated ego and has a track record of treating a lot of people poorly?

No, of course not! :-)) LOL

154. Jack - August 28, 2011

153. And then, later and especially after Kirk died… he kind of embraced the fan love. Or, at least, realized he could make money off it.

My heart has softened for the guy, maybe because he’s 80.

151. Keachick, you’re not rude.

155. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 28, 2011

#147. MJ …

Well I’m on the internet because it exists… I’m not on the Internet, to reverberate my despair, my grief and my personal problems… well I’m not desperate in any way by the way… lol…

What I mean is that I am here looking for information, entertainment and interaction with some interesting people if possible… so I prefer the method of Peter Jackson… is clear that the filmmakers are not obliged to inform what they do not want… but I will not tell them “to keep quiet”… no way!

Adele is on MTV now… I love her music …but I’m not desperate! …LOL

:-) :-)

156. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 28, 2011

#147. MJ …

Well I’m on the internet because it exists… I’m not on the Internet, to reverberate my despair, my grief and my personal problems… well I’m not desperate in any way by the way… lol…

What I mean is that I am here looking for information, entertainment and interaction with some interesting people if possible… so I prefer the method of Peter Jackson… is clear that the filmmakers are not obliged to inform what they do not want… but I will not tell them “to keep quiet”… no way!

Adele is on MTV now… I love her music …but I’m not desperate! …LOL

:-) :-)

157. Red Dead Ryan - August 28, 2011

Look, my post (#122) was NOT rude. I was just offering some constructive criticism. I like the supreme court guys. They did a great job last time with “Star Trek”. And I want them to succeed next time.

People like Dee and Charla really need to chill out. SHEESH!

I NEVER ONCE said Bob Orci needs to stay off this site. I like it when he comes here to discuss stuff concerning the last movie. I just said it might be more effective to stay quiet on the sequel script until its ready. I used Christopher Nolan as a comparison because he’s great at keeping things under wraps until filming begins. Then he releases details. The fact that more Trek fans ask Bob or J.J about the status of the sequel script than Batman fans ask Christopher Nolan about the progress of his movie is irrelevant. It’s a red herring. Its more about communication.

One message from one messanger is more efficient, in my opinion.

158. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 28, 2011

Comment doubled, I have no idea how that happened… I’m sorry TrekMovie …

:-) :-)

159. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 28, 2011


Well, RDR, I’m completely relaxed I just made ​​a joke… I’m sorry if I offended you… has crossed your mind that make comparisons between people can be unpleasant… you’re always telling people what they should do or say…

You have every right to disagree with what people are saying but do not have the right to speak for them to be quiet! …

…again I’m sorry if I offended you!

:-) :-)

160. dmduncan - August 28, 2011

157. Red Dead Ryan – August 28, 2011

I don’t think you said anything wrong either, dude. It was a good general point Charla made but I didn’t see it applying to you specifically there. I thought Bob’s comment was sincere agreement. It would probably cause a lot less headaches for them if they said nothing at all.

161. MJ - August 28, 2011

It does seem like their a cottage industry on this site of people who are constantly complaining about those of us that have some legitimate criticisms of the Supreme Court regarding the continual delays on the sequel. RDR is right, those of you who keep complaining about us expressing our legitimate criticisms (note: I am not including the “JJ Haters” here — they deserved to be criticized) do in fact need to CHILL OUT. I mean, otherwise, we are going to have to deduce that you are ass-kissers of the Supreme Court who won’t allow any legitimate criticism of them regarding this depressing sequence of events which has left us with very little information and a sequel completion date that keep moving to right.

So chill out and back off regarding the legitimate criticism of this situation please!

162. Red Dead Ryan - August 28, 2011


I never told anybody to keep quiet. What I said was it might be a good idea to stay quiet about the script until it’s done. That’s all. It was a suggestion. I never said Bob should disappear completely.

I wasn’t offended, just annoyed. Anyway, apology accepted!

163. Red Dead Ryan - August 28, 2011


Charla did refer to people comparing Abrams to Nolan. I made mention of Nolan, comparing his methods of revealing/not revealing info to the public versus how J.J Abrams and Bob Orci go about their ways of messaging.

But thanks for backing me up!

I think in this case, the old adage “No news is good news” is quite appropriate, relevant and true. Sometimes not knowing something is easier to deal with than knowing. Especially when it comes to things that are out of our control. All it does is create unnecessary worrying.

164. Vultan - August 28, 2011

A part of me yearns for the days before the internet, before everyone was “connected.” These bits of info we get about upcoming movies is addictive, but I’ve found that it’s much more satisfying to see a movie fresh, with maybe only the trailer as an indication of what the story will be about. But now even many trailers give away too much.

RDR is probably right. No news (or at least as little as possible) is good news.

165. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 28, 2011

#161 – MJ ….

“It does seem like their a cottage industry on this site of people who are constantly complaining about those of us that have some legitimate criticisms of the Supreme Court regarding the continual delays on the sequel.”

I agree, legitimate criticism is OK ….Yes , I’m with you on this …and I remember very well who wasn’t …..

just saying……

:-) :-)

166. dmduncan - August 28, 2011

163. Red Dead Ryan – August 28, 2011

Charla clearly had you in mind, no doubt. But I didn’t feel you said anything bad. I think what you said was a common sense way of looking at it. She just made me think of other times when Bob would get flamed. Bob tries connects with the fans of Star Trek, and every now and then somebody throws a pie at him for taking the time to do so. The guy’s not made of stainless steel. Nobody’s gonna tell me no bad thing said ever gets to him.

167. dmduncan - August 28, 2011

166: “tries connects” = “tries to connect” or “connects” (take your pick).

168. VulcanFilmCritic - August 28, 2011

@ 164 Vultan. I agree. A part of me also yearns for the days before the internet, but only a small part of me. When Star Trek first debuted, we had no idea what we were getting into. The TV guide coming attractions issue showed only two guys in velour tunics with (what looked like) gold rick-rack on the sleeves staring at the camera through a wide angle lens. The dark-haired guy looked a little strange. They did not look very friendly. It would be about 6 months before we even got a good look at the actors playing these chatty spacemen.

Today the show would be flogged to death at Comic Con years before the second pilot got made. We would not just know Shatner, Nimoy et al, but their pets, their favorite foods and colors, and their entire filmography. By heart.

But we do have the internet and Comic Con. And Rush Limbaugh and Dancing with the Stars and text-messaging and Twitter. We also have Kindle and Mac computers and multi-culturalism and an African-American president named Barack Hussein Obama. If we want to view the JPL’s pictures of the surface of Titan or any work of art we wish, it’s just a click away.

The internet is not a personal interaction. We have no faces and we generally don’t use our real names. If we did, perhaps one could expect civil discourse.

There should be no expectation that people will behave as human beings in a forum such as this; however, there is a certain advantage and power in knowing that fans are free to express their unvarnished opinions anonymously. We know Mr. Orci may look in from time to time, but what of the others who do not announce themselves? Market research people, low-level assistants at the studio and anyone else who cares to find out what we think. What we really think. Assume everyone in the world will be viewing what you say.

I for one, object to group-think. I object to being told what to think and what to say. And i will continue to express my opinion, critical or not.

And I don’t care if it isn’t exactly the Will of Landru.

169. MJ - August 28, 2011

@168 “There should be no expectation that people will behave as human beings in a forum such as this; however, there is a certain advantage and power in knowing that fans are free to express their unvarnished opinions anonymously. We know Mr. Orci may look in from time to time, but what of the others who do not announce themselves? Market research people, low-level assistants at the studio and anyone else who cares to find out what we think. What we really think. Assume everyone in the world will be viewing what you say. I for one, object to group-think. I object to being told what to think and what to say. And i will continue to express my opinion, critical or not.”

Agreed — well said, my friend!

170. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - August 28, 2011

Curse me if you want, but I think 4 years between films is a good thing.

#1: It gives us Trekkies something to look forward to (and rant about, whichever you like).

#2: Four years after where the last movie left off would put it in about 2262, just a bit before the five-year mission. Could this movie have something to do with the preparation of that mission…?

Just me…

Onto another subject here:

Does Spock’s relationship with Uhura mean that McCoy won’t have as much of his emotionless, Vulcan side to get after? Because if this means less Spock-Bones banter, remedy this situation somehow, please.

171. NCM - August 28, 2011

Bob Orci sounds angry. Can’t blame him, but I hope he won’t succumb for long to the tempting human propensity to pout.

Surely, fans have been cause for the creative team to vent. Let’s hope Mr. Orci comes to realize that this is a place for fans to vent, in addition to sharing excitement about Trek, and that grousing is understandable at this point.

After months of waiting, hoping, patience, kudos to the commitment to make it good rather than on time, sustained excitement, and wide acceptance of delay, Abrams’ indecisiveness persists, undermining confidence in the project and potentially the future of Trek, and now, his tepid non-announcement introduces only one new concept – IF…!? For how long should fans sport gratitude and patience?

Frustration may be misdirected toward anyone but Abrams, the pugnacious non-fan, take it or leave it director who needn’t be emotionally vested in the future of the franchise.

Inconvenient as it may be at times, fan enthusiasm and obsession have made Trek something to enjoy and profit from proceeding into the future (if …).

172. Bob Tompkins - August 28, 2011

Back to Square One for the franchise. The folks who came in from the outside on the first movie are now going to take a ‘so what?’ stance on the next movie. The American attention span in the 21st Century is nil. If the movie ends up being mediocre- a strong possibility given that everyone involved has had their attentions elsewhere these last 3 years, the Franchise could be over.
Star Trek needs a caretaker, not someone who flits in and out on whims and when his schedule allows.

173. Brett Campbell - August 28, 2011

It is amazing that this science-fiction saga-slash-franchise continues to survive and thrive as it swiftly approaches its forty-fifth anniversary. I’ve seen a lot of other genre franchises in TV, film and other media be born and die in that time, while “Trek” truly lives long and prospers. Thank you to all the fans and the creative teams that have kept it … who keep it … boldly going.

174. Canon Schmanon - August 29, 2011

I really enjoyed the movie. I thought the actors were very good, and I was engaged enough to forgive the story flaws. So I’ll gladly accept another film, and sure, I’d like them closer together, but what I really want is a new series.

Seeing as how these guys just seem to puke out series after series, why not barf up a big ol’ juicy Trek series?

175. Horatio - August 29, 2011

Speaking on behalf of the generation that ushered in Star Trek during its first run in the 60’s and its resurrection in reruns in the 70’s i’d like to point out to those currently at the helm of the franchise that:

We. Are. Not. Getting. Any. Younger.

In fact, we’re starting to die off. Just sayin.

I know this sounds sorta like a Trek version of Fanboys, but for some of us fans we are starting to sense the predator out there lurking us.

176. Jorg Sacul - August 29, 2011

If they keep putting this off, they will be able to remake The Wrath of Khan without any problem, as they’ll all be old enough.

177. Mel - August 29, 2011

@ 170 Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup

Personally I assume that the first five year mission of the Enterprise started at the end of the last movie. Everything just happened a little earlier than in the TOS universe. Kirk is Captain sooner.

And there should really be more Spock and McCoy banter. Overall McCoy should get more screen time.

178. Brett Campbell - August 29, 2011

177 — “Overall McCoy should get more screen time.”

Fully agreed. He got too little screen time in the 2009 film, and Urban is a very good actor — IMHO, the one who most fully realized the dimensions of a TOS character — the irascible Bones, immortalized by Deforest Kelley.

179. AJ - August 29, 2011


Good God, Horatio. You’re right. I was diagnosed with ridiculously high blood pressure last year when I went in for a hernia operation. The doctor practically asked if I was already dead (I wasn’t).

When I met with the marriage counselor 5 years ago with my (then) wife,he asked me if I was suicidal, I answered “No. There is a new Star Trek movie coming out, and I want to see it.” The counselor laughed, and ended that line of discussion, as that piece of bullshit was removed from the discussion.

Fact is, time is marching on. Many of us would love to get our kids into ‘Star Trek,’ as it is something that is good for them to watch with their moms and dads and grandmas and grandpas.

Unlike ‘Star Wars,’ ‘Star Trek’ is like the weak cousin of all the franchises, so people shit on it for years between appearances of real product, and the CBS marketing machine licenses out $800 dollar models of ‘Enterprise with Blinking Lights’ for old people like me, rather than stamping out animated adventures for our kids to soak in.

My 9-year old son knows all the characters from 6 Star Wars films, all made before he was born. He knows the Family Guy and Robot Chicken versions as well. And while I have tried, I cannot get him to watch “Trek.” He knows I like it, he even knows the characters, but he’s not interested. My 11-year old girl is slightly more interested in ‘Trek,’ (When she saw Spock kiss Uhura, she said “he’s not supposed to do that” for which she earns 1000 quatloos). She is keener on Mr. Potter and now, JRR Tolkien, which, hopefully is a lead-in drug to ‘Star Trek,’ though the jump from “The Hobbit” to the trilogy is a bitch at 11.

Pop Pop, Mr. Orci. Please. We’re not getting younger, and I expect Horatio, in post 175, isn’t either. Throw us a bone!

180. C Mosenko - August 29, 2011

I think that a lot of people on here have went from stating their oppinions to becoming quite rude. There some ideas which are well thought out and are fun to read. Some are over the top rude. It is neat that one of the writers is reading what we have to say. And he responds, you don’t see that often. Personally I think he’s listening to the ideas and now thinks we’re are an extreemly judgmental group of people. Are we?

181. C Mosenko - August 29, 2011

I dare us to do better.

182. Starfleet's Finest - August 29, 2011

Good grief, there are a lot of unhappy people on this board…but then again I guess that’s nothing out of the ordinary. There are soooo many things to comment on but I’ll just throw in a few.

Regarding Quinto’s ‘4 year is enough’ comment, honestly guys, what do you expect him to say? Or any other Trek actors for that matter! This is a job for them, plain and simple. Do you know ANY employee that will walk up to their boss and tell them “Boy, you are really going at this all wrong. I mean, what are you thinking?! If you were half as smart as you think you are you would be able to do this in a quarter of the time you have set.” Ok, you might know some but are they employed after that little speech? Most likely not. These actors stand by JJ and the ENTIRE ‘supreme court’ becuase they believe in them AND respect them; they’re not going to publicly throw anyone under the bus as it would be highly unprofessional and unethical to do to someone you consider a friend. So please try and cut the actors and creative team some slack.

As to Quinto’s portrayal of Spock; I don’t know why anyone would consider is preformance anything but comparable to Mr. Nimoy’s version of Spock (personally I thought Quinto’s preformance of Spock was perfect, but I’m sure my opinion is biased). Throughout all of their interviews, Quinto’s and Pine’s, they made it clear that JJ did NOT want an impression of Shatner or Nimoy. It was to be their interpretation of the roles that the latter’s had set in place; and this they accomplished. I mean for heaven sakes, Nimoy even thought Zach’s preformance was spot on. If Leonard Nimoy said that he was happy with Zachary replacing him as Spock, that should really be all that Trekkies should need.

I know I’ve said this before and I know I’ll probably continue saying it until the movie has an official release date; yes, there is a delay but there is nothing to be done about it. Is it a suprise to anyone on this site, which is almost solely made up of Trekkies (or Trekkers) I might add, that people are upset that the film has been delayed so long? Of course not! We are the ones who are prabably most up in arms about it though. This is Hollywood we’re talking about; delays happen. And I am really happy that we have a site such as this to voice our complaints and are frustration over this but really, guys, you are preaching to the choir. I bet that even Mr. Orci is secretly unhappy about the delay, though I’m sure he’d never admit to it. But I’m confident when I say it’s probably not the creative teams choice to keep pushing back the date; there’s a lot of people that these guys answer to so I would keep the insults to a minimum, but hey that’s just me. But the facts remain: the movie is delayed but a couple thousand (give or take) fans on will not speed up Paramount or the supreme court.

On a lighter note: Congrats on the new show Quinto!! (ha…it rhymed)

183. MJ - August 29, 2011

@180 “I think that a lot of people on here have went from stating their oppinions to becoming quite rude. There some ideas which are well thought out and are fun to read. Some are over the top rude. It is neat that one of the writers is reading what we have to say. And he responds, you don’t see that often. Personally I think he’s listening to the ideas and now thinks we’re are an extreemly judgmental group of people. Are we?”

I won’t defend the people who have been over-the-top rude, but I won’t defend you folks who keep complaining about those of us who have some complaints either, and who therefore probably appear rude to you. Frankly, I wish the whole lot of JJ Haters would get together will all of you “complainers about complainers,” and cancel each other out — like in chemistry, when you mix and acid with a base. :-)

I dare you to do better — stop the obsession with those of us who are legitimately upset with the continued delays and lack of info here please. Do it! Do it! Do it!

184. Horatio - August 29, 2011


I turn 50 this year – still a pretty young age but a milestone nontheless. This year i’ve had several friends my age either unexpectedly pass away or be diagnosed with life threatrening disease. My father is 72 – also an original Trekker – and has himself recently remarked that he wishes they’d get the new movie going cause he isn’t getting any younger.

Trek’s demographics definitely skew older. If CBS wants to maintain their franchise they definitely need to improve their marketing at the younger generations.

185. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 29, 2011

#184. Horatio…

“Trek’s demographics definitely skew older. If CBS wants to maintain their franchise they definitely need to improve their marketing at the younger generations.”

Younger generations are accustomed to receiving their franchises in less time…

… just saying…

:-) :-)

186. Starfleet's Finest - August 29, 2011

@ 183 MJ

Wow, never thought I’d be responding to you…I’m kinda scared :P

I’m fine with people voicing their frustrations and complaints about how things are going. I mean lets face it, complaining seems to be our god givin rights as Trekkies. What I have a (for lack of a better word) problem with is when people start saying that the creative team doesn’t care, the actors don’t care, and so on. Even with us keeping up to date with the progress (or lack there of) we have no idea whats going on behind close doors becuase that’s probably what they want. For better or worse, that’s the way things are, there is no reason to start attacking someone one on a personal level becuase some fans are throwing a tantrum. Personally that’s what I’m sick of. Trust me, that’s not directed at anyone, just an observation. :)

187. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - August 29, 2011

@177 Mel:

Why did that never occur to me?

But yes, I definitely agree: the good old country doctor should definitely have more screen time in this next one.

188. MJ - August 29, 2011

@186. I hear you dude, and I agree with you. (see, I don’t bite!) Creatively, the Supreme Court did and outstanding job on Trek 09, and I trust them to do an outstanding job creatively on the sequel. What I do question is their time management and focusing skills — those skills have a lot to be desired of, in my opinion.

It is a good thing that are in Hollywood, becuase these guys would fold quickly under the pressure of most of us in the real world who have jobs with regular deadlines, and are working in an environment where if we F-up, the boss has 200 resumes of people wanting our job. :-)

189. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 29, 2011

We have been told to expect an announcement in about a month’s time. Well, it is 1st September on Thursday –

What about it, Bad Robot and Paramount? I think 1st September is officially the first day of a NZ Spring, although the Equinox takes place on the 22nd September. Anyway, whichever, September is when we can expect to see the first blossoms, lambs, calves, sound of baby chicks…

Please don’t make this Spring a weepy one for me. No one needs to be made weepy at the beginning of your Fall (Autumn) up where you are are either.

What to do?

190. dmduncan - August 29, 2011

168: “The internet is not a personal interaction. We have no faces and we generally don’t use our real names. If we did, perhaps one could expect civil discourse.”

Well the internet is tone deaf, I’ll grant you that, but I do have a face and I do use my real name, and if I do say something I shouldn’t, I can’t nor do I desire to run from it. Some may be able to pretend to others, by using a phony name, that they aren’t the sorts of people who say uncivil things, when in fact they are. If you are being an ass, you are being one no matter what name you use. Fake names that you think you can hide under while being an ass just make you a liar to yourself as well, so you end up twice as wrong with an extra layer of self delusion to slog through, if you are so inclined. But since many people on the internet do seem satisfied being smug anonymous jerks, such an inclination is probably not there.

191. dmduncan - August 29, 2011

And by the way, there are plenty of people who don’t use their real names but who still manage to be civil even when disagreeing, so when I say “Some may be able to pretend,” I mean “some” literally.

192. Jack - August 29, 2011

182. “If Leonard Nimoy said that he was happy with Zachary replacing him as Spock, that should really be all that Trekkies should need.”

Nimoy was fine, apparently, with the script for Star Trek V. Marsh melons and all. I keed?

I was fine, mostly, with Quinto’s Spock too, but he did seem really angry. Maybe he was. The Vulcan Academy guys was kind of dickish, even for a Vulcan. Some of what bugged me was in the writing. I can’t picture Nimoy, ever, saying “no, not really…” But, whatever.

I wasn’t thrilled with Ben Cross’s Sarek, either, at first. But, you’re absolutely right — it’s not a cabaret act… they can’t be doing impressions. It’s actually pretty amazing that Urban’s McCoy worked as well as it did… it stayed, pretty much, on this side of parody.

175. All jokes aside, and this is a little pathetic, but I’ve had some pretty rough patches of depression… I knew it was really bad when I didn’t even care about Trek ’09 coming out in a couple of months, or the finale of Lost. Or the summer. Luckily, I stuck around.

191. I’d use my last name, but I’m kind of the only guy with my name like anywhere. I try to limit what I put on the Internet and keep it to writing and other work-related stuff (which there’s lots of). But I feel pretty dishonest about it.

193. MJ - August 29, 2011

@189 “We have been told to expect an announcement in about a month’s time. Well, it is 1st September on Thursday.”

Yep, the clock is ticking…. I predict that if September goes by without any announcement still, that we will see the last small minority of people who are pretending their is no issue finally come over to my position here. Last Spring, I was nearly a lone voice on this issue, while now, I’d say 80% to 90% of the folks posting on these boards now share my legitimate concerns on the sequel progress by the Supreme Court.

194. dmduncan - August 29, 2011

191. I’d use my last name, but I’m kind of the only guy with my name like anywhere. I try to limit what I put on the Internet…”

Actually, you have a valid point, since through data mining a fairly detailed picture of you and your life can be easily put together from thousands of trails you’ve left. And since I deeply distrust power it is perhaps wiser to be less forthcoming than more.

195. Brett Campbell - August 29, 2011

It sounds like they’re workin’ on it. And I’m sure that they are aware that they are taking a gamble that a number of fans, new and old, may have the reaction of “we waited four years for THIS?” if they don’t deliver an excellent film in 2013.

It’s not a position I would like to be in, but hopefully they will amaze us with how well they work under tremendous pressure.

196. Jack - August 29, 2011


They were certainly archetypes… but, at the best of times, they transcended those. I’d argue that by, say, Star Trek II, they were pretty fully formed.

I did miss McCoy being the, well, not Kirk’s conscience, but the guy who protects Kirk from himself, or at least points things out (“friend, personal bartender, confidant, counselor and priest” reportedly according to Grace Lee Whitney) in Trek ’09.

Again, I wish he’d been a bit more serious when Kirk, pretty absurdly, was trying to beat the no-win scenario… but, it would be tough writing McCoy as not a caricature… it would be pretty tempting to double up on the “damnit Jim”s (which he didn’t actually say in TOS… or am I wrong?) — “damnit Jim, you can’t be happy with having beaten every record in this damned place, you have to win the unwinnable test too? What exactly are you trying to prove, and to who?” McCoy was pretty wonderfully written in Treks II, III and IV. Heck, and in TMP. But I could see it easily veering into formula. In VI, his lines seemed off — but maybe that was an attempt to keep the automatic “wait just a damned minute”s out of it.

And “green-blooded hobgoblin” didn’t quite work, although, clearly, bastard and son-of-a-bitch wouldn’t work, what with Spock’s mother just dead for hours.

197. Canon Schmanon - August 29, 2011

I think Quinto did a great job as Spock. The only deficit that he and Pine had as far as I’m concerned is their very average voices. Shatner and Nimoy have outstanding vocal talents. Quinto simply can’t match the deep resonance of Leonard Nimoy’s voice, and Pine’s own pipes are a pale comparison to Shatner’s.

But you can’t cast somebody just for a voice. I think they did a great job picking the crew.

198. dmduncan - August 29, 2011

196. Jack – August 29, 2011

Well I think you have to do a balance to do Star Trek best. City on the Edge of Forever shows how powerful the metaphorical aspect of their characters can be while also being realistic.

I like Harlan’s original script a lot, but I also think Gene Roddenberry turned in a great revision, and Roddenberry dramatized the metaphor more than Harlan did.

And actually they did pick up on it in the movie a little because Kirk was making better decisions than Spock was as captain. It wasn’t enough to be Mr. Logical.

199. MJ - August 29, 2011

@197. Good point on the voices — you know, I really had not considered that before.

200. - August 30, 2011

I want to see what happens that Spock becomes so loyal to Kirk.

It took two films for Daniel Craig to transform into the cold hearted James Bond and we only saw that in the final seconds on quantum of solace, subtle yet in that final scene which was simply an arrest he was one the one hand free of many demons yet at the same time now the cold hearted Bond who was in full control. Fantastic journey.

I would love to see something like that for Spock and Kirk’s characters. There was an incredible loyalty from Spock that always implied an underlying backstory that was never addressed.

201. visitor1982 - August 30, 2011

James Bond was never cold hearted. Ask Roger Moore.

202. captain_neill - August 30, 2011

Well it’s more time for the newbies to catch up on TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT.

203. VulcanFilmCritic - August 30, 2011

@200 “I would love to see something like that for Spock and Kirk’s characters. There was an incredible loyalty from Spock that always implied an underlying backstory that was never addressed.”

Yeah, I’m waiting for that, too. I also hope Mr. Quinto gets to morph his character into the more ascetic, unemotional, profoundly scientific and intelligent Spock we’ve come to expect.

Maybe we’ll also get to see why Spock was so devoted to Pike before Kirk.
In “The Managerie” Spock was willing to risk his own life and Kirk’s career for the sake of Pike’s happiness. Not his life. Just his happiness. There’s a great story in that relationship as well.

I’m betting Bruce Greenwood comes back only to be severely injured and permanently handicapped in some accident which occurred on a training mission with cadets (the new crew, of course.) Oh boy, I’d live to see Bruce Greenwood trying to rescue them while exposing himself to those deadly delta rays. What pathos! Maybe that event was the inspiration for Spock’s self-sacrifice in “ST:TWOK.”

204. AJ - August 30, 2011

I think of all the threads that have stirred emotions among Treksters, this is one of the more civilized. Yes, we’re all officially pissed off, and here’s what we ‘officially’ have:

1. The script is being slow-roasted for extra juiciness
2. An announcement is coming soon
3. The film’s existence is still in question
4. Speculation is building for an animated or live-action series (Google it)

In this information age, it seems as if Trekkers like us are the frenemies of the studio…the “alien trash of the galaxy”; We get nothing but crap thrown at us while other franchises release photos, interviews and set visits. Nice pics of Superman and Spiderman! The Avengers look great! Like Cap’s new suit, and Bilbo and Gandalf are together again!

Star Trek? We got nuthin’.

It’s easy to blame JJ, but he’s not signed on yet, has he? Bob, Alex and Damon? I reckon they’ve got a pile of dynamite in their laptops at this point. And their work can only be critiqued once it’s been screened. I won’t buy the Kool-Aid that says they ‘can’t make deadlines.’ They’re the most productive team in Hollywood, screens big and small. “C&A” would have benefited from extra time, but deadlines are deadlines.

Something has cocked up. It’s either re-writes or money, or something legal.

Boborci: Throw us a bone, please. At least say ‘Star Trek Feels Fine’ if it does.

205. VulcanFilmCritic - August 30, 2011

204@AJ. As many older Trekkies/Trekkers have stated, we’re a dying breed. The kids today are not interested in sci-fi; they want action. And that’s where the franchise has to go. It can’t stay in this little geek-ghetto if it is to remain profitable. It has to appeal to a wider audience.
Star Trek as a franchise just doesn’t have the “juice” it once had. Just ask any kid under 20 about Star Trek and you get these kind of blank looks.

Back in my day, despite claims that it wasn’t popular, Star Trek was watched on a regular basis by millions (22-30,000,000 each week by some estimates.) Even the TOS TV show pulled in tens of millions, which on the low end was considered a failure in those days. Spectacular numbers for cable and syndication, though.

The space program is dying also. Let’s face it, the dream of the early 1960’s is over. It’s been an incredibly long and glorious ride, but it’s over.

We are the”alien trash of the galaxy” because of the media, not because of anything we’ve done. The media have always portrayed us that way, and maybe that’s what the studio thinks we are. They never miss an opportunity to show the wackiest among us on the local news when the Star Trek Conventions are in town. They never tire of asking Leonard Nimoy stupid questions about his ears and they never tire of baiting William Shatner into some outrageous comments.

I heard Nicholas Meyer speak at a book signing once and I asked him if Star Trek gets the respect that it deserves, from the industry and the media. He was momentarily taken aback saying, Well that’s an interesting question, while groping for an answer. But he didn’t bite his tongue. He said that he felt that there was SOME respect from the industry but the media were definitely “lazy and stupid.”

I think the back door treatment that Star Trek gets derives from fear. Fear of an intelligent, demanding, and devoted fan base. Better to serve up something for general tastes than for us.

206. Danpaine - August 30, 2011

#205. Well put, Sir.

207. AJ - August 30, 2011


VulcanFilmCritic, that was the post I was waiting for. I think, for years.

I happily live in that ‘little geek-ghetto,’ as you so well put it, as do, I hope, millions of us. We fans no longer have any control. Back, before the Web, letter-writing-campaigns and re-runs got ‘Trek’ into the mainstream via syndication.

Nowadays, it’s even harder, as every opinion is thrown out into the cloud, and we get marginalized, categorized, and eventually ignored.

I do not own a light-saber because I am a 46-year old man. I saw a few kids in Warsaw last year playing with light-sabres, and one had the ‘clone’ helmet on. ‘Star Wars’ is an ongoing concern. A “property.” ‘Star Trek 2009′ at this point just seems like a one-off money-grab.

208. Jeff O'Connor - August 30, 2011

It still doesn’t feel like that to me. Maybe if the sequel got delayed a couple more times I’d start feeling similarly. As it stands though, I think it’s taking too long to materialize but I do not doubt the good intent of people like Orci and Kurtzman at all. I believe they take this very seriously and truly strive to pen successful sequels.

209. AJ - August 30, 2011


And they do feel the weight of the property. Bob has said it many times, but “mime is money.” Let’s get the show on the damn road already.

210. Cygnus-X1 - August 30, 2011

On the totally unrelated topic of ALIEN VISITORS TO EARTH:

On the recommendation of someone here in the thread about aliens, Roswell, govt. coverup and so forth, which was inspired by Bob Orci’s interest in the topic, I looked into that Col. Philip Corso account and his book, “The Day After Roswell,” and all signs point to it being a hoax. In addition to having gotten many of the historical facts wrong, that someone making the allegations that he was making should not have gotten wrong, apparently the other claimants of “the truth” about Roswell, etc. have all alleged Corso to be a fake, as well as alleging each other to be fakes.

211. Brett Campbell - August 30, 2011

209 — “mime is money.”

I think the only really super-successful one was Marcel Marceau. ; )

212. NuFan - August 30, 2011

205 We are the”alien trash of the galaxy” because of the media, not because of anything we’ve done.

I don’t know about that. Obnoxious is as obnoxious posts. Yes, I know it’s the same 6 guys doing it over and over. Yes, I know 6 is not very many in the overall picture but they’re doing it all over the internet, not just here. It’s not doing anything to improve the public hostility toward trekkies.

213. boborci - August 30, 2011


What is not in dispute is that the airforce admitted in mid 90s that wreckage was no ordinary weather balloon. That was an cover story for classifiec test eith dummy bodies aboard, they then claimed. Point is, they lied for 50 years.

214. Trekboi - August 30, 2011

4 years between films is death- all the work relaunching star trek is now waisted.

The End.

215. Vultan - August 30, 2011


My guess is they “lied” for 50 years because the big red bears in Moscow were their primary concern, not the little green men from… out there…

Is it an amazing coincedence that the biggest public distractions occured during the same time of the biggest, most secretive military operations in American history?

Just a guess.

216. boborci - August 30, 2011

215. A valid theory. That was their (Airforce) claim. It may even be the truth. But the fact remains that if we accept their claim, then every witness who said they saw something super advanced that was not a weather balloon that was accomoanied by small humanoid but non human bodies WAS TELLING THE TRUTH. They Airforce, in essence, acknowledged the honesty and integrity of people who’d been called crazy for 50 years.

217. Starfleet's Finest - August 30, 2011


Wow…The longer I read the post the sadder I became becuase unfortunately…you’re right. You are absolutley right. When the name ‘Star Trek’ comes up in any conversation there always seems to be a stigma attached. Now, I’m not what you would necessarily call a “young” Trekkie, but I am no way old enough to say that I’ve been a fan since the beginning so maybe someone can explain where that stigma came from. All I’ve ever known of Trekkies is that we are fanatical. I never questioned it, just accepted it as fact, which I was ok with. But we’re no more fanatical than the Twilight tweens, Star Wars Fans, or any other franchise that happen to hit the “mania” level, for that matter. So how is it that as Trekkies, we’re the poster children of fanatical behavior? Where did the media’s contempt stem from?

I might have just shown my ignorance for Trek history but honestly, from the beginning, I just took the insults as compliments to the dedication the fans have to the franchise. But it seems the outside world might not have meant them as compliments…silly me.

218. boborci - August 30, 2011

Correction: accompanied by

219. Vultan - August 30, 2011


Well, I don’t know about non-humanoids, but there has been an incredible amount of technology that’s been kept from public knowledge via Skunkworks and the like over the past 60 years. Perhaps these little non-humanoids were part of an elaborate hoax to keep the UFO fever going… and to help cover up the tech (as well as convincing the Soviets we were allied with ET). Who knows?

But it wouldn’t be the first time a government has used a body to spread misinformation:

220. dmduncan - August 30, 2011

I like Brad Sparks on Roswell:

“Sparks has been a lifelong skeptic of Roswell and the ETH (Extraterrestrial Hypothesis for UFOs), although he remains open to new evidence. For example, in 2000 (while working on non-UFO-related research), he accidentally discovered the TOP SECRET U.S. government policy response to Roswell, which should not exist if Roswell was essentially a non-event as he had long believed. He also has moved on from his belief in the ‘Mogul balloon’ explanation for Roswell, after discovering that the supposed Mogul balloon flight path was a fabrication. He worked with Dr. David Rudiak in plotting the correct probable balloon path, which passed nowhere near the Roswell Debris Field.”

The lies about Roswell were still coming long after any need to be concerned about Moscow.

221. Adolescent Nightmare - August 30, 2011


I blame poor parenting.

222. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 30, 2011

#204 – “I also hope Mr. Quinto gets to morph his character into the more ascetic, unemotional, profoundly scientific and intelligent Spock we’ve come to expect.”

That may well happen in the sequel. This may be the best way this vulcan/human will be able to cope and function, given the enormity of what has just happened to his mother and entire world. However, the emotion will always be there and may show itself on occasions, and not just at Pon Farr (where they are unbalanced and exaggerated anyway), because of who Spock is. Perhaps it is only with somebody like Uhura that he will be able to comfortably express the more emotional side to his nature, but otherwise, what we could get is the “ascetic, unemotional, profoundly scientific and intelligent Spock”.

Bear in mind that it is actually possible to be emotional and intelligent at the same time. Actually, the only people who, as far as I know, can be very intelligent but totally unemotional (and lacking any kind of empathy) are psychopaths and Spock is NOT a psychopath.

I agree with those who say that the Quinto/Spock seemed to carry with him an undercurrent of seething anger, something which was not so apparent with Nimoy/Spock. Now, of course, since the destruction of Vulcan, this nuSpock really does have something to be angry about. The whole event could be very cathartic for Spock, hopefully leading to a more balanced (as in not so quietly angry) Spock who is the more “ascetic, unemotional, profoundly scientific and intelligent Spock we’ve come to expect” (most of the time). That is what I would like to see.

223. Pauln6 - August 30, 2011

Ther performances were all creditable even if some of the characterisations were a bit different. I think requiring the actors to copy the originals would have been a mistake though. Pine got to do bad boy Kirk and Qunito got to do bad boy Spock. He might be a very high rank but this was still a 26-year old Spock. The mere fact that he is not only dating a human but one of his students is an indication that he is not as in control as Spock became. I thought that the performances were very nuanced, with plenty of shades of what might have been.

If anything, Saldana’s Uhura was missing a bit of Nichelle’s magnetism and michievous humour. She was a bit too serious and so was Amanda actually – they shouldn’t forget that women can do funny even without trashy sex jokes and a woman can’t date a Vulcan without a sense of humour! Conversely, Pegg’s Scotty was required to overdo it and be a buffoon, which was a big disappointment, as I’m sure he knows the character inside out.

Moving the timeline on in the sequel will be a good thing as the characters will be able to grow in confidence to something closer to what the originals had. After watching Rachel Nichols in Conan I’m a bit disappointed that she wasn’t given the chance to play Rand (Gaila was a fun cameo but I’ve never really been in favour of humanising the established alien races too much). I’m still rooting for Rand to appear in the sequel as Kirk’s yeoman – she can be a very funny character and updating her to make her a bit gung ho could be very amusing.

224. Pauln6 - August 30, 2011

Actually, the way she manipulated him by using logic against him was pretty funny. He needs to Vulcan up a bit there!

225. Jack - August 30, 2011

I think I’m probably the only Trek fan who was happy when Rand stopped being on the show. She didn’t do anything, other than being a girl.

226. Pauln6 - August 30, 2011

Oh no, she had her detractors all right and it’s true, she was a far more traditional sixties heroine rather than a proper astronaut. In some respects, her loss was Uhura’s gain – Uhura would not have got to be in charge of a security team in City on the Edge of Forever if Grace’s character hadn’t been written out and I always thought that was deliciously subversive, even if her, ‘I’m afraid,’ line would have sounded less surprising coming out of Rand’s mouth. I like Janice because she is the Everyman. She isn’t especially smart and has no particular speciality so she can ask questions that the (non-nerd) audience wants to ask. I wouldn’t be a fan of setting up an unrequieted love thing with her and Kirk again though; one shipboard romance is enough in a movie franchise. However, as Kirk’s aide, she has a simple reason to be anywhere he is, and that would be a good way to introduce an action heroine into the mix. The franchise is deplorably short on women and making Uhura fill all the requisite female niches makes Star Trek more like Star Wars, which was REALLY sexist. They need more women basically, and Rand is a simple character that would be easy to re-mold for a modern audience.

227. NuFan - August 30, 2011



228. NCM - August 30, 2011

Nice to see Bob Orci didn’t quit us despite our vitriol. It is ‘cool’ that he chooses to interact…; even if so little, he may accurately, but affectionately, be called a tease.

On attitudes toward Trekkies, I’ve seen no change. We’ve always been regarded as a bunch of harmless, smart geeks, sporting some obsessive and flamboyant characters in our midst. If I’m not mistaken, Trekkies pioneered sci-fi fan flamboyance, fan fiction, slash fan-fiction, effective studio letter writing campaigns, TV to movie franchise conversion, conventions, etc…; hence our greater notoriety. None of this troubles me.

Surely our perceptions of how Trek is viewed by those-who-don’t-know-what-they-miss is shaped by where we live and our experiences. I was surprised to hear from a friend in a rural area of another state that she knows of no nearby fellow fans. I hadn’t known we existed in isolation.

I’ve always found kindred spirits plentiful, whether in the Capitol city, the blue-color towns, or the north-woods of Wisconsin; wherever I’ve worked, traveled, etc… Is it odd that the majority of my extended family and my spouse’s extended family are fans?

I’m not convinced we’re a dying breed. I know numerous young people who took interest with the reboot (but to get hooked on it, they will need timely follow-up), including my brilliant and geeky young nephew, my son and daughter, teens. More than ever, teens, perhaps girls more than boys, are drawn to sci. fi. fantasy – look at the young adult section in a bookstore; consider this cohort’s interests not only in superhero movies, but in Harry Potter, Twilight, Narnia, and Golden Compass (what happened to plans for that sequel?) series.

I think young people are better poised than ever to appreciate a well managed Star Trek franchise. Unlike me, my sibs, other 40-something fans I know, the young today won’t have to conceal their interests in Trek from their mothers.

Of course, as one here suggested, the young want action (but so do we), and Kirk should probably take off his shirt – far more appealing to young women today, I think, than it was when Shatner was doing it – besides, I understand Pine has The Abs!

229. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 30, 2011

Yes, I believe Chris Pine does have The Abs and those we must see in the next movie, whether he takes the shirt off himself or it gets ripped/torn in the prime Kirk style. Having scenes that show both activities occurring are perfectly acceptable to me. Just saying…

Are you getting this, Bob?
Good man. Now, make it so!!!


230. VulcanFilmCritic - August 30, 2011

@ 206 Danpaine and @ 207 AJ. Thanks. i thought I might be going out on a limb there, but being classified as a geek because I watched Star Trek has always been my experience. I lived in a large city when I was younger. To admit to Star Trek fandom back then was The Kiss of Death socially. So I didn’t mention it. For over thirty years. Now I am old and therefore, NOT COOL anymore, so I might as well ‘fess up and finally enjoy Star Trek fandom.

@217 Starfleet’s Finast: “maybe someone can explain where that stigma came from. All I’ve ever known of Trekkies is that we are fanatical. I never questioned it, just accepted it as fact, which I was ok with. But we’re no more fanatical than the Twilight tweens, Star Wars Fans, or any other franchise that happen to hit the “mania” level, for that matter. So how is it that as Trekkies, we’re the poster children of fanatical behavior? Where did the media’s contempt stem from?”

I think many of the things we find amusing , inspiring, and delightful in Star Trek are threatening to many. The open acceptance of people of all races, a relaxed attitude towards sexuality (among humans, at least) and a high regard for intelligence. These are the conscious aspects of Trek that give some the Willies.

Emotionally, the show also has a lot of heart. Deep friendship, loyalty and a sense of duty are feelings that many people are uncomfortable with.

On a deeper level, Star Trek speaks to the unconscious, where dreams, myth, religion and art live. It speaks in mythological terms and symbols that not everyone responds to. Either you see a hero-Captain or you see an overly-emotive, slightly pudgy actor in a toupee. Either you see an extraterrestrial or you see a wooden actor with lacquered hair and foam rubber tips on his ears. Either you see the grandest starship in the fleet or you see a flying saucer-like thing stuck to an ocean liner-like thing.

Star Trek, like most science fiction, requires some imagination on the part of the viewer on order to make it come alive. Those with little imagination, like those in the media, might find the whole affair “hokey and stupid.”

231. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 30, 2011

“Either you see a hero-Captain or you see an overly-emotive, slightly pudgy actor in a toupee.”

I guess I have always seen him as a hero-Captain with some interesting and entertaining quirks, like the way he says things sometimes or when he is telling his first officer, an alien/human hybrid on board a star ship way out there, thataway, thisaway… to “Mind the store!” as he leaves the bridge. LOL. I can’t remember which TOS episode it is from, but I still remember the line and scene.

Gosh, what’s not to love about Star Trek, with so many little gems like that, some obvious, some not so obvious.

Thing is – I never knew that William Shatner wore a toupee at any time while he was doing Star Trek, either in the TV series or the movies. I thought it was just his own hair, which they would dye sometimes with not such good results (see some TOS episodes). Since coming onto this and other sites, I have now found out the *terrible* truth, which I don’t think I really needed to know and has really served no useful purpose, other than I now know that William Shatner is among the many millions of men around the world who have male-pattern baldness. No wonder he and Patrick Stewart get on so well.

232. Adolescent Nightmare - August 30, 2011


I think it’s Quinto’s turn to be shirtless in the next one. Right, boborci? Quinto. Shirtless. And maybe a third nipple just to annoy the usual idiots.

Three nipples on Vulcans!!?? Why, this is an outrage!! Have they no regard for canon!!?? I must complain at once!!!

233. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 30, 2011

There is no reason why the “golden triangle” cannot all be seen shirtless. I have already posted the *perfect* scene, with a Lt Uhura in her own ripped/torn uniform coming to their rescue. See how easy it is. If this scene is not quite so *perfect*, I can have another scene sorted. Just give me a minute…

(OK, MJ, all you need to do is cover your eyes. The scene(s) is there to advance the plot, or not, but more importantly, to satisfy the desires of many to see our favourite characters in the (near) buff.)

Right, boborci?

“Golden triangle” was a name given on another site to the Pine/Kirk, Quinto/Spock and Urban/McCoy trio. The poster also said that TPTB should hang onto these guys like there was no tomorrow. I couldn’t agree more. I just thought that “golden trio” could sound better?

Right, boborci?

(Oh dear, the man has gone quiet. As soon as we start talking Star Trek and stop talking UFOs or JFK intrigue, he’s gone…What to do?)

234. Basement Blogger - August 30, 2011

@ 213 Bob Orci

I love the UFO topic. Roswell is not my favorite UFO “sighting.” The reason is the lack of physical evidence. But the witnesses are credible with some ot them being military. Col. Corso’s book (“The Day After Roswell”) is a fun read, and I remain skeptical but before anyone says it’s a hoax, remember he has serious defense department credentials. If his book is a hoax, why destroy his reputation in his old age and before his death?

Let’s go over the numerous excuses for Roswell, given out by the government and or government sources.

1. First, it’s an actual alien craft. (Officer Walter Haut’s press release)
2. Retracted, now it’s a weather ballon…
3. Flash forward to mid-nineties, Air Force says not weather ballon but Project Mogul. It’s a top secret ballon to detect Soviet nuclear tests.
4. Air Force says alien bodies were high altitude test drop dummies used in the fifties. Um… Roswell happened in 1947!
5. And this year , the craziest explanation by the government. (government source) Annie Jacobsen wrote in her book, “Area 51″ which received much publicity from the media but little skepticism, that Roswell was a Russian hoax connocted by Stalin. He got Josef Mengele (yes, that one) to create children that looked like aliens and the Russians piloted a ship to scare the Americans like “The War of the Worlds.” I’m not kidding about the Mengele-Stalin story. Link.

By the way, Mengele disappared from Germany in 1949 and died in Brazil. There’s no proof that a Nazi scientist like Mengele would work with Communist dictator Stalin. And if the alien like children were twelve when they crashed in Arizona that means Stalin’s gag would have had to start around 1935. Orson Welles’ “War of the Worlds” radio broadcast was 1938. By the way, had genetic science become that advanced in the thirties? Crazy disinformation. .

The best UFO cases are the ones with phyiscal evidence. See Belgium sightings in the nineties with photos, and radar hits. See Arizona Lights, now with former skeptic, governor Fife Synington as a witness. .

Link: Jacoben says, “Roswell is Stalin-Mengele gag.”

235. Odkin - August 30, 2011

1) For Christ’s sake keep everybody’s shirt ON. Manly ripping and shredding is allowed.

2) If anybody DARES “update” Rand into some cartoon “kick-ass” know-it-all super-genius “you-go-girl” bullshit… I will personally chase you round the Horn, round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition’s flames before I give you up. Rand is a Yeoman. She is a secretary, an Admin Assistant, a clerk. She brings the Captain coffee and maybe tries to get him to notice her. Here in 2011, the wiseass do-anything tough gal is a WAY bigger cliche than an old-fashioned yet realistic portrayal of a young woman in a subserviant position.

3) Please dear God in heaven no anti-military/political/conspiracy theory/”the MAN is pulling all our strings!” pop psych weed-induced Matrix paranoia. I just mean in this thread. DOUBLY so for the movie.

236. Harry Ballz - August 30, 2011

233. Keachick

“As soon as we start talking Star Trek and stop talking UFOs or JFK intrigue, he’s gone…What to do?”

Logic would dictate a return to discussing the JFK assassination. That’ll flush him out!

Here fishee, fishee…………………….THE GRASSY KNOLL!

237. Jack - August 30, 2011

233. Er, isn’t a golden triangle something else entirely? Trio’s good. Why golden, though? :) I was never a big fan (just me, again) of triad or triumvirate — “Kirk, Spock and McCoy” works pretty well.

But yeah, they’re pretty fit guys – I’m all with you for them showing it off, if it works in the script. And JJ did write Joy Ride, which had a pretty decent nude scene. Some folks (me) go to so-so flicks solely for the shirtlessness (although I still haven’t seen Conan – I don’t know if I will). And it’s been a long time since we’ve had a Trek cast that could pull it off, so to speak (no offense, Brett Spiner).

Heck, again, look at all the hype for Ryan Gosling’s nude scene (that contained no nudity) this summer. It’s funny, I think I’ve reached my nudity saturation point with True Blood (apart from Joe Manganiello), although I’m not quite at the point of fast forwarding through it yet (like I did with Game of Thrones). But it’s definately a draw, to a point.

232. Adolescent Nightmare

Shirtless, fine.

Eight nipples, fine (although, shirtless Nimoy had two… just saying).

Idiots, not so fine.

A bunch of people come to this board, whether Bob was here or not, to muse, speculate, converse, annoy, fret, gripe, what-have-you. Some loved Trek 09, some hated it, some were meh. It’s a Star Trek site for Christ’s sake — targeting the “whiners” and anyone with a sense of protectiveness toward their fav. franchises (geeks, in short) is like shooting tribbles (mock away) in a barrel.

Fine, you’re 9, or 15, or 28 or whatever (40? 52?). And the canon guys can be tiring. The restore-the-timeline stuff is bizarre to me. As is the Trek-09-was-Star-Wars-not-Trek. I just don’t agree. I don’t think it was a teen movie, either. So, yeah, I’d hope we’d disagree, if we disagree. But I’d be thrilled if we could strive to be a little more civil, while speaking our minds here. It’s Star Trek, after all.

(PS. Ever seen any TOS? The Wrath of Khan? First Contact? Not a fan?)

It is pretty amazing that some of our ideas of what works for Star Trek are so set in stone. It’s supposed to (er, there I go) be about possibility…

Me, I want new and fresh. I don’t want to see a redress of what I’ve seen in 12 movies and hundreds of hours of TV. But I guess I like to ramble on, and discuss with others, about what I’ve thought (and what you guys think) has worked for Trek and what hasn’t… just to see what others think and maybe to spark some new ideas. I liked Trek 09, but I’ve also loved a lot of the Trek that came before it. What’s wrong with comparing. I get that not everybody does.

Bottom line, I liked what they did with the characters. I liked the pace and the energy. I liked the art direction, the score and the effects. I didn’t mind the ship (again, I didn’t get much of a sense of its scale, and, heck, I always want to see more of the thing). I didn’t mind engineering or the bridge. From the interior sets, I didn’t get a sense of teh ships scale, but whatever (and, as I mention below, the speedy turbolift was great).

There were a couple of (pretty minor) science things (that made folks with high school physics go, “er…”) that could have been fixed by changing a word or two. Same with a few lines of dialogue (writers’ strike?). There were a few coincidences and contrivances that could have been smoothed out.It was an origin story, and, it worked better than some, but, like a lot of origin stories, it was focused on getting the pieces in place by the end. I’d like to see more there there. I want to learn more about THESE characters. If they end up exactly like Shatner and the rest, well, then what’s the darned point? I’d like to see more smart women, more aliens, more non-white folks, more great actors and more of the ship. I’d love details that open up story possibilities rather than limiting them (like later Voyager, etc. where the details didn’t really add anything). I’d like some real emotion and consequences. I’d like some intrigue. I’d like to be devastated, puzzled and amazed. I’m pretty needy.

I loved details like the turbolift taking 3 seconds to get to the bridge. The movie was fresh, it was fun, it was entertaining as heck, it had heart, I was on the edge of my seat for a bunch of it… it wasn’t predictable and, yeah, it’s one of my favourite movies of the past few years… and certainly near the top of my favourite SF flicks. But I get the sense that they can do even better (no pressure guys, and no need for perfection). Smart, sure… but I’m hoping you resist the calls for clunky allegory or for just regurgitating current events.

238. dmduncan - August 30, 2011

237: “It is pretty amazing that some of our ideas of what works for Star Trek are so set in stone.”

Well if I was going to do a Star Trek I would do an updated but even more faithful rendition of TOS than ST.09 did, design-wise. If you change it too much then you’re not doing Star Trek anymore and the question becomes why not just cut the tether and do an original idea like Firefly?

I love originality but if the idea is to do a redo of something that’s already been done, then I’d update and remain more faithful to the original incarnation when it was as cool as it was. And TOS was WAY cool.

234. Basement Blogger – August 30, 2011

There were multiple witnesses to a triangle craft sighting in my area that made the news a few months back. My luck, I wasn’t one of them. Damn.

239. NCM - August 30, 2011

I support the sport of taking aim at those who intentionally, belligerently incite irritation, for the heck of it, but with all the piss and vinegar at times sprayed about this board, I find most disappointing the last posts taking aim at Orci.

What provocation? What motivation? Do you feel compelled to put down anyone who has the gall to share views that don’t conform to your sensibilities, or are you actually open-minded individuals with a weakness for sour grapes sown from envy?

Keachick, didn’t you recently chastise MJ for being “mean spirited” in response to one of your posts? Oddly enough, I expected more of someone who had the balls to be Mr. Ballz.

240. Basement Blogger - August 30, 2011

@ 238 Dmduncan

Hey what area of the country was the sighting? Maybe I can look up some news reports. Triangle craft. Cigar shaped craft. Saucer craft. The universe is full of life. ;-)

241. Cygnus-X1 - August 30, 2011

234. Basement Blogger – August 30, 2011

—-If his book is a hoax, why destroy his reputation in his old age and before his death?—-

Are you serious?

Firstly, Col. Corso died in 1998. Secondly, he was out re-writing American history and lying to the public on a massive scale for profit, with a story that, in addition to being riddled with important inaccuracies that were impossible to ignore, failed to be corroborated by a single other US govt or military official. And you’re questioning why this massive lie spanning much of the technological history from 1947-1990s and involving US military history during the same period, and of course one of the most important would-be discoveries in human history (ET life) was exposed as a lie instead of everyone who knew better just keeping quiet for the sake of the opportunistic old Colonel’s reputation?

Does it occur to you that, if everyone had kept quiet about Corso’s massive lie in order to preserve his reputation, the cover-up would, by implication, have rendered many, many other military personnel, govt officials, inventors and developers of the technology in question (fiber optics, night-vision goggles, etc.) as well as just regular people of less repute, who, in the course of their lives happened to have told stories and accounts contradictory to those of Corso, liars, themselves, and destroyed THEIR reputations instead?

I mean….I appreciate your respect for the old war hero and you’ve got a big heart to think firstly of honoring him despite his questionable (at best) motives, but I think it’s safe to say that it’s a little misplaced in this circumstance and would certainly not be for the greater good.

242. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

#240 – “Keachick, didn’t you recently chastise MJ for being “mean spirited” in response to one of your posts? Oddly enough, I expected more of someone who had the balls to be Mr. Ballz.”

I am not sure what you mean. Are you referring to something I posted on this thread or on another thread?

I was making an observation about Bob Orci. It is something I noticed before. I was not having a go at him, just observing, especially when this is Star Trek board, not a board about UFO sightings or about the assassination of John F Kennedy. It would be nice to have him say something about Star Trek, but I also realise that could present difficulties for him. However, if he and others want to talk about those topics on this or any other thread, who am I to say they can’t?

243. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

#236 – “1) For Christ’s sake keep everybody’s shirt ON. Manly ripping and shredding is allowed.”

Do you mean that Kirk cannot take off his own shirt? Is it alright if my Menosian woman Jasmia takes to doing some ripping and shredding of his shirt? I’m not sure if she’s into tying her man up, but you never know – it really depends on Kirk…:) Jasmia is a nice and *naughty* girl!

244. Harry Ballz - August 31, 2011

239 “I expected more of someone who had the balls to be Mr. Ballz”

You called? And, more importantly, what the frak do you mean?

245. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

I have seen trailers from the Vampire Diaries and True Blood and they have some good looking men on those shows. The trailers do show some of them shirtless and very nice some are. It is just that I do not like vampire programmes and personally I do not find one of the main characters of True Blood, Stephen Moyer, very good looking at all.

I think I just want to see Pine/Kirk, (as well as the other two perhaps), in the near buff (because I know we’ll never see a full frontal naked Pine/Kirk or anyone else for that matter) because he is lovely looking AND plays a character I really like. Chris Pine played other characters who were very nice like Danny Valdeseque(sp?) in Blind Dating so seeing him with a shirt off in that film (no scene unfortunately) would have been nice as well. There was a scene in Just My Luck where he was changing his teeshirt. Nice. There was also a scene with him shirtless in Carriers but the scene took place at night.

However, I have no real interest in seeing any of the guys from the vampire shows, no matter how physically attractive they may be, but because I am not into those programmes or characters. Does that make any sense?

By the way, I don’t refer to a man’s genitalia as “junk”. If some guys see themselves and others as having “junk”, then that’s their call. I think the term is crude and derogatory. They are, to me, “jewels” that only a human male can possess, especially if they belong to someone I like.

246. Basement Blogger - August 31, 2011

241. Cygnus-X1 – August 30, 2011

I wrote that I was skeptical of Corso but questioned what would this man who served our country get out of serving a big hoax. I try to keep an open mind about Roswell. Roswell beiever Stanton Friedman is also skeptical of Corso. But like I said, there’s no question to Corso’s high government credentials. He was on the staff of Eisehower’s NSC and Chief of the Pentagon’s Foreign Technology division.

So while I can see your profit motive for Corso, I can also see an old man who served his country wanting to come forward with the secret that can help mankind. The secret that we are not alone could unite mankind. Remember what the Vulcans did for us in Star Trek: First Contact. :-)

247. AJ - August 31, 2011

Growing up in the late 1960s and early ’70s, as many of us did, when TOS was just on all the time, I kinda got to thinking it was pretty cool to like Star Trek. The show baby-sat me while I ate dinner and parents worked, and much of the talk at school the next morning was about what happened on “Trek” or “Monty Python,” the previous night, with the home-room teacher fully involved.

My friends and I had the Mego dolls and Bridge sets and tried (poorly) to glue together AMT models, and I was still 8th-grade class president.

My main issue is that, every time a Star Trek picture is released, everyone closes down the sets and offices, and goes home. Every ‘next’ movie or series is a guessing game or a pissing contest. Marvel Comics doesn’t fire everyone involved with ‘Captain America’ once the Blu-Ray interviews are done. It’s a going concern. “Trek” is not. Not anymore. Film is done, and the sets will be on eBay in 10 minutes. No animated series, no show-runners gearing up, or ‘Star Trek’ offices on the Paramount lot.

No toys in the shops. No kids talking it up at school. Yoda and Pokemon.

248. Adolescent Nightmare - August 31, 2011

I am 83 years of age. So everyone should respect their elder.

Thanks for that list of movies!

249. Lt. Daniels - August 31, 2011

How about Dylan McDerott to play Spock’s brother ?

250. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 31, 2011

#233.Keachick and #236.Harry Ballz …

I think boborci is laughing very much… so, he is not making comment now… Besides, I think fish is smart it will not be hooked more than once in the same post… I guess … just kidding …

I got it wrong or someone thinks Keachick and Harry Ballz are the same person… LOL

:-) :-)

251. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 31, 2011

#245 – Keachick …

There is more than shirtless guy in True Blood … Nudity is just… but the problem is the story… the scripts this season are bad… then, long sex scenes, almost explicit, between the fairy and the vampire………

I watch, of course!… LOL

:-) :-)

252. boborci - August 31, 2011


Are you really 83? Fantastic! What has been our secret to healthy living?

253. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

#252 LOL I might watch, but it’s those vampire teeth…yuck. Not sexy.

Is it also occurring in the Vampire Diaries, I wonder? They have just pushed it from the 8.30pm to 9.30pm timeslot on Friday nights…

#253 – “What has been our secret to healthy living?”
My, Bob – you do look sooo good for 83. You have definitely outdone William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy. Keep up the good work!

254. dmduncan - August 31, 2011

Oh who knows what Corso was up to? He may have been a profiteer trying to look more important than he was — or a company man to the end, lies included.

255. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

It is now 1st September here in NZ. I hope that Paramount and Bad Robot are readying their press releases, JJ Abrams is getting any trim to his hair that needs doing, having those nails manicured, wearing the correct specs and so on… Indeed, so much to do and time waits for no man…

256. Pauln6 - August 31, 2011

I loved the TMP Mego action figures and the Weetabix cards – I never did manage to get an Uhura card – dammit! Even then though the Trek merchandise machine paled in comparison to the Star Wars machine. I think part of the problem is that modern licences are too expensive and too restrictive. In those days you could produce generic figures but these days it seems that everything has to be based on a character that was seen on screen. As far as Star Trek goes that means too many Starfleet figures and not enough villain figures. Fine for collectors not so much for kids. The Playmates Trek 2009 figures were pretty terrible. The bridge set looked cool but they made a decision to make it a different scale to the decent figures that were out there like the DST figures. The DST figures are great but they struggle to find retailers willing to stock them and they cancelled some really cool looking figures. I mean they cancelled the Borg wave due to lack of interest (not to mention my beloved Rand and Nurse Chapel) – how insane is that? I wish I’d been a bit more of a practical child in the 70s – I would probably have knocked up some custom Mego figures to create the crew I was missing. Maybe with the upcoming NuTrek computer game they can synchronise the mechandise a bit better this time. I hope whoever does the figures next time puts a bit more effort in – standards have gone up since the Mego days!

257. Odkin - August 31, 2011

He also needs to practice that douchey “shrugging my shoulders with my hands in my too-tight jeans pocket” look. It’s all the rage among sensitive smart cool people.

Personally, I predict he will NOT direct, but just a hunch. Could go either way. I just don’t think the studio is going to put out the money he wants after his last couple of movies.

258. TrekMadeMeWonder - August 31, 2011

TrekMadeMeWonder: Waiting for YEARS for a new Trek Movie and then finally losing interest.


259. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 31, 2011

The numbering of the comments here… has left me dizzy…

I think, about vampires and sex, Keachick was talking to me – # 251…

…about age and health, Keachick was talking to boborci # 252… hmmm… it seems that someone managed to hook a big fish… I’m just kidding again… Mr. Bob Orci!

:-) :-)

260. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 31, 2011

#253 – Keachick …

I do not know much about Vampire Diaries… a show about vampires is enough for me…in True Blood the vampires are dirty… but I like it!

Would it be inconvenient if I ask about Trek sequel to boborci??… hmmmm… LOL

:-) :-)

261. Robman007 - August 31, 2011

@201: Timothy Dalton was pretty cold hearted…Brosnan could be too.

I think Dalton and Craigs Bond line up good together.

All this talk of Roswell and Aliens and Coverups make me miss The X-Files….

262. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 31, 2011

#253 …one show is enough …I mean …whatever …:-) :-)

263. NuFan - August 31, 2011


So you say, yet again. How many more years will you continue to post that you’re losing interest?

264. VulcanFilmCritic - August 31, 2011

@237 Jack: “Me, I want new and fresh. I don’t want to see a redress of what I’ve seen in 12 movies and hundreds of hours of TV. But I guess I like to ramble on, and discuss with others, about what I’ve thought (and what you guys think) has worked for Trek and what hasn’t… just to see what others think and maybe to spark some new ideas.”

I loved ST09. I saw it 8 times in the theater. I like fresh too, but I didn’t mind a sly reference to the old show either.

Over the years what has worked for Trek:TOS is newness. And in 1966, it WAS new and exciting. We’d never seen women and men interacting the way they did on the Enterprise back then.

All of the new gadgets were very cool, more cool than anything James Bond had. I really like gadgets and I hope some new ones will be invented for the ST XII.

What also worked for TOS:
Kirk was a surprise, being so young and boyish and yet firmly IN CONTROL of his ship. And despite his hyper-masculine strutting there was vulnerability and doubt. And the secret ingredient is that Kirk is nuts. He really is. He is as in love and protective of his ship as most men are of their “jewels.”
And we love him for it. Because his love for his ship often causes him so much pain. Go figure!

Spock was also new, but not so easy to like as the Captain. It took a while for him to reveal his true self, but unraveling the mysterious man behind the mask is the fun of this character. His secret ingredient: humor. Without it this character would be dull, dull, dull.
His other secret ingredient is: androgyny. Spock is not feminine, but he is strangely beautiful. That’s what’s what teenage chicks dig. Think about it. All of the guys who’ve ever inspired the chase-him-down-the-street-and tear-off-his-clothes style frenzy in girls have been men who’ve been a little androgynous: Valentino, the young Frank Sinatra, the Beatles, Johnny Depp and now the Bieber and assorted vampires.
And Spock’s got to be smart. Really smart. So that little kids will want to grow up to be just like him.

I didn’t like McCoy that much growing up, I thought he was an old coot. Now that I am an old coot just like him, I find him quite lovable.

The Women: The’ve got to be eye-poppingly beautiful and glamorous in a slightly naughty way. It can’t be too obvious, though, This isn’t a cattle call. The women were IMHO underused in Trek, because they can show danger in a way that no man can. Isn’t it more scary when Lt. Uhura, alone, has to go onto the bridge in “Mirror, Mirror” than any of the men?
Let the women get off the ship and do stuff. And not just as the object of for some sadistic fantasy as in “Plato’s Stepchildren.”

The rest of the crew were just dramatic representations of various ethnic groups and their stereotypes, rather than being fully developed characters. The strength of TNG was that it was an ensemble cast but the poor use of the gang of four (or five) was a major weakness of TOS.
The navigator and the helmsmen represented two enemies of the US. The Japanese were now our allies, but the memory of them being the enemy was probably still fresh in the minds of out parents. Presumably the Russians would become our ally too.
Perhaps in STXII, we could actually see Arabs and Israelis working together. They have never been represented in Trek before.

And while we are on the subject of race and ethnicity, ST09 gets a D. The view of race in that film is not at all progressive but regressive back to a time before TOS. While we all love Zoe, I was sorely disappointed that an Nitoa Uhura had to be played by a Latina and not by an African or at least an African-looking African-American. Ditto John Cho playing a Japanese man. Am I to believe that in all of Hollywood, there isn’t an African actress beautiful and talented enough, or a Japanese actor charismatic enough to play Uhura and Sulu?

Star Trek should look forward and push the envelop of what the future can be. Not looking back at what should have been.

265. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

What “last couple of movies”?

JJ Abrams did Super 8 which did very well revenue wise. JJ Abrams had NOTHING to do with Cowboys & Aliens.

266. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

#265 – “And while we are on the subject of race and ethnicity, ST09 gets a D. The view of race in that film is not at all progressive but regressive back to a time before TOS. While we all love Zoe, I was sorely disappointed that an Nitoa Uhura had to be played by a Latina and not by an African or at least an African-looking African-American. Ditto John Cho playing a Japanese man. Am I to believe that in all of Hollywood, there isn’t an African actress beautiful and talented enough, or a Japanese actor charismatic enough to play Uhura and Sulu?”

If anyone is using the race card here, it is you. Anyway, I am not even sure that Sulu is actually a Japanese name. Zoe is African/Latino.

267. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

Oh for an edit key

James Kirk is, I believe, of Anglo-Saxon/Scots descent but a Hungarian/Jew got to play the first Kirk. How could that be?

Honestly, we don’t need this racist nonsense here.

268. Odkin - August 31, 2011

I find that a good rule of arguing is that the first person to use the words “racist”, “Nazi”, or “Hitler” loses the argument.

269. Dee - lvs moon' surface - August 31, 2011

OMG!!! …again … Would it be inconvenient if I ask about Trek sequel to boborci??… hmmmm… LOL

:-) :-)

270. VulcanFilmCritic - August 31, 2011

@266, 267 Keachick. Star Trek is an American TV/movie franchise, and Gene Roddenberry was quite forward thinking when it came to discussing the issues of the day, which included race. He made a point of showing a racially diverse crew and doing shows like “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield,” “Balance of Terror,” and “The Cloud Minders,” which are metaphors which dramatized the problem we ALL live with.
As Americans, our view of race and ethnicity may be very different from yours. I believe you have mentioned that you are from New Zealand? Maybe you are a little uncomfortable even thinking about the subject.
Simply to bring up the subject is not “playing the race card.” It is talking about race.

271. Adolescent Nightmare - August 31, 2011

I attribute my longevity to plenty of carrots.

272. Rocket Scientist - August 31, 2011

There’s also the matter of a certain French captain being played by an Englishman. What’s up with that? ;-)

273. Erin - August 31, 2011

Anybody ever wonder why we don’t see Ligers breeding? It’s because they’re hybrids. You know what Spock is? A hybrid. I can’t figure out how he is supposed to be fertile to “rebuild” the Vulcan race.
With whom, by the way? Uhura? How would that rebuild a VULCAN race?
Perhaps they’re hinting on a breakup there. Are we certain T’Pring died with Vulcan? Maybe he will go make Vulcan babies with her.

274. Red Dead Ryan - August 31, 2011


Zoe Saldana is an African-American actress. And how do you define “African-looking African American” anyway? There isn’t one particular template for being African, or African American. That’s like saying all black people look the same.

John Cho, a Korean, playing a Japanese character. So what? George Takei doesn’t care. Linda Park, also of Korean descent, played a Japanese character herself. No one made a big deal over that.

I agree with Keachick, that it was you who brought up the race card.


“I find that a good rule of arguing is that the first person to use the words “racist”, “Nazi”, and “Hitler” loses the argument.”

And I find anybody who lives by such a rule to be a complete idiot who has no business arguing with anybody else.

275. VulcanFilmCritic - August 31, 2011

@ 274. While Zoe Saldana may self-identify as an African-American, she is of Puerto Rican and Dominican heritage. Actually, she grew up not far from where I did so I totally support her. I just saw “Columbiana,” mainly because she was in it.

If you ask African people themselves, they can identify features of people from Nigeria, Benin, Ethoipia, etc. and my friends from Africa often do. Africa is a very genetically diverse place. The most diverse on Earth. They are not all just brown people, you know.

The adorable Ms. Saldana just does not look like someone from Africa. If she looked like one of the ethnic or tribal groups from Africa, I would have no problem with her playing Lt. Uhura, but she is a little dilute in the African genes department. Nichelle Nichols on the other hand had features of a Nigerian, so she was perfect for the part.

Ditto John Cho. He just doesn’t look very Japanese to me. I would be interested in what a Japanese person, not involved with the show, would have to say about the matter.

276. Canon Schmanon - August 31, 2011

Wow, I came back to check on the discussion and find that it has degraded quite a lot. I’ll not be part of this clown parade any longer. BYE!!!

277. Rocket Scientist - August 31, 2011

If I recall correctly, the character Mr. Sulu is not necessarily Japanese. Didn’t Roddenberry say that he was created to be representative of Pacific Asian peoples without specifying an ethnicity or nationality? As such, a casting director has quite a bit of latitude in selecting an actor to portray the part. John Cho is a good choice.

278. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

“As Americans, our view of race and ethnicity may be very different from yours. I believe you have mentioned that you are from New Zealand? Maybe you are a little uncomfortable even thinking about the subject.”

You clearly have no idea about NZ and in particular Auckland, NZ’s largest city and where I live. For a start, Auckland is the largest Polynesian city in the world. I live in the southern part of Auckland known as Manukau. As of the 2005 national census, 145 cultures and languages were found to exist within Manukau alone, having a population of approximately 350,000 people. In my sons’ high school (role number 1600 students), 52 ethnicities are represented. In my small cul-de-sac street alone of under 30 homes, I have counted at least six different races/ethnicities – European, Maori, Tongan, Samoan, Cambodian, Indian and those are the people I know of.

A friend was giving English lessons to refugees from Afghanistan a little while back and I regularly see within a radius of 5kms of my home people from various parts of Africa (esp. Somalia and Ghana), Iraq, Iran, Chile, Philippines, Malaysia, China, Korea, Vietnam, India via Fiji… In my suburb alone, all the world’s major religions are represented.

When I refer to *European, I mean people from the UK (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland), Irish Republic, Netherlands, Canada, Poland, Tito’s Yugoslavia (my own cousins are part Slav – Dalmatia), South Africa…

I have to be a little bit acquainted with the notion of IDIC.

“I would be interested in what a Japanese person, not involved with the show, would have to say about the matter.”

I don’t know, but I think the Star Trek 09 movie did pretty well in Japan. I have the impression also that a lot of the Japanese girls liked Chris Pine…

Anyone know? Have any Japanese been asked about John Cho playing Sulu? Have any made a great noise about a Korean playing a role initially played by a Japanese actor? Surely, being in the US, you would have heard something by now…

279. Keachick (rose pinenut) - August 31, 2011

#175 – Canon Schmanon – “Seeing as how these guys just seem to puke out series after series, why not barf up a big ol’ juicy Trek series?”
Then at
#277 – “Wow, I came back to check on the discussion and find that it has degraded quite a lot. I’ll not be part of this clown parade any longer. BYE!!!”

Really? So what and how we are discussing ideas is more degraded than what you posted at no. 175, Canon Schmanon, as in describing what Bob Orci and co. do as “puking” and “barfing”? Duh.

280. Harry Ballz - August 31, 2011

271 “I attribute my longevity to plenty of carrots”

Doesn’t this post belong on the Diamond Planet thread?

281. Jack - September 1, 2011

271. I may try that. Gin and french fries seem to have stopped working.

280. Ouch. Well played.

What’s the ethnicity deal? In the new movie, Scotty was English, McCoy is from New Zealand, Yelchin is, er, Russian (okay), and Quinto’s not Vulcan (but still pretty dreamy — Pennsylvanian of Irish and Italian descent, according to the sometimes dodgy wikipedia). And the original cast had, generally, quite different backgrounds than their characters. Scotty and Shatner were from Canadia, for Pete’s sake!

And I’d still like to see a Native American in Trek (Chakotay didn’t really count) — without having to get all fake mystical. I’m still a fan of Adam Beach and gotta make that plug. And, have we ever seen an Ensign Goldberg? Not many Southeast Asian, Middle Eastern (okay, Robau) or Latino people in Trek either. I’m not talking about “token” characters (that term’s been used here), whatever that means, but shouldn’t Star Trek be about reflecting humanity as a whole? Most of the people on Earth aren’t white or from North America. Heck, most of the people in North America aren’t white either.

More women too please.

How’d we get on this topic?

Back to shirtlessness.

PS. Keachick, True Blood isn’t entirely in the Twilight genre — it’s quirky Southern melodrama (with the pretense of using hatred of vampires and other supernaturals as metaphors for sexism and racism… it’s hit and miss). The pace can be sluggish, but the acting’s generally good, and there’s occasionally full-frontal. It’s probably easier to google image it, instead of watching the show.

PPS. Would this topic be less, er, tolerated here if we were talking about how we want to see topless women and tighter skirts in the next Trek? We can get away with praising Pine’s posterior, but if we were talking about Saldana’s rack, would we get in trouble?

282. Jack - September 1, 2011

Here’s hoping they’re inspired… and I’m firmly behind the idea that a Trek movie should be targeted to fans of great movies…

LA Times — ‘Raiders’: Damon Lindelof’s love letter to a ‘perfect movie’

“I remember with great clarity the last time I peed my pants….”

283. Jack - September 1, 2011

And I’m getting into spamming territory here, but, darnit, I can’t sleep…

Kind of on-topic, marginally, but Zack Snyder talked in February to the LA Times’ Geoff Boucher about the line between slavishly following canon and, well, making a watchable movie…. It’s all stuff we’ve heard before, but I like this approach, and I’m hoping the Trek guys won’t try too hard to placate the fans or boldly go where someone else has already gone (and to be fair, the last one was a good start) — Snyder’s quote, from below: ‘respect the canon but don’t be a slave to the movies (series).’

It’s also intriguing that, when Richard Donner was starting to make Superman (which had its own canon checklist and set of expectations) he, purportedly, kept the word ‘versimilitiude’ in viewing range…


“Literally, the one thing that everyone can start to think about is that we’re making a movie that finally goes with the approach that there’s been no other Superman movies,” Snyder said.
“If you look at ‘Batman Begins,’ there’s that structure: there’s the canon that we know about and respect, but on other hand there’s this approach that pre-supposes that there haven’t been any other movies.
“In every aspect of design and of story, the whole thing is very much from that perspective of ‘Respect the canon but don’t be a slave to the movies,’ Snyder said.
I (Boucher) mentioned to Snyder that in hindsight the Singer film (Superman Returns) might have been boxed in by the past and too tentative — the movie seemed at times like a cautious curator trying to move around among fragile museum pieces….”

284. VulcanFilmCritic - September 1, 2011

@281 Jack: “How’d we get on this topic?” Well, you asked at # 237 this:
” But I guess I like to ramble on, and discuss with others, about what I’ve thought (and what you guys think) has worked for Trek and what hasn’t… just to see what others think and maybe to spark some new ideas.”

And so I gave you my opinion at @ 264, and it’s created a firestorm of defensiveness. Fascinating!

Of all of the topics that CAN be discussed on these threads, the one topic that CAN’T be discussed is race. I guess some people have a long way to go.

285. Harry Ballz - September 1, 2011

If we’re all part of the human race, no wonder life goes by so fast!

286. Jack - September 1, 2011

284. Well, i don’t think it’s racist to wonder whether an African character should be played by an African actress. Ot that Sulu could be played by a Japanese actor. And, yeah, there weren’t a lot of black people, other than Tyler Perry, Saldana ( … ) and one or two extras. It was pretty white and pretty male.

Heck, our first black president is half white, and look at the surge of racism since he came into office (and anyone noting gets accused of playing the race card).

We should be able to talk about race/ethnicity on here — we’re all part of at least one. And it’s not like the world has moved beyond race…

And, heck, Hollywood’s still not good at this generally — non-Native American
actors have long played Native Americans. same goes for a lot of non-white ethnicities…

Talking about race isn’t ‘playing tye race card’ and, joking aside, it’s a lot more interesting/needed than talks about shirtless celebrities.

287. dmduncan - September 1, 2011

Agree with Damon on Raiders. Awesome movie. On my best of all time list. And I’m glad that someone who thinks the same is working on Star Trek.

288. Jeff O'Connor - September 1, 2011


Canon schmanon. These discussions are made for wandering!

289. AJ - September 1, 2011


The Bridge:

Kirk” Alright, Spock. Where’s the beef?” We’ve got nothing to do!

Spock: “The Beef? The Aldebaran System, I do think! Why do we need beef?”

Bones: “Look, Jim. I’m gonna take Spock out of circulation. Sign the order. All this time doing absolutely nothing is affecting his nervous system. He goes into Pon Farr, which is due, by the way, and I’m gonna have to get him laid.”

Kirk: “Would you do that for me, Bones?”

Bones: “What?””

Kirk: SLAP! “Would you? Get me laid?”

Bones: “Ow! Of course. 500 bucks. But you’re life doesn’t depend on it.”

Kirk: “And Spock? What will you charge him? Our friend? depends on it?”

Bones” “I was thinking $550?”


290. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 1, 2011

I think, from where I come from in NZ and from my own experience, the negative racial stuff that goes on in the US does not happen here nearly as much.
Note: I did not say that it never happens, because it does sometimes unfortunately, and it is not just coming from Pakeha whites either, although a lot did come the colonizing whites in the past. The capacity to be racist is not exclusive to just one race/culture/ethnic group. It is something that all humanity shares and needs to get past. I am not trying to be PC here or anything either.

Actually I did think that the Indians in the American TV westerns were played by native American Indians. After all, the very few locally made shows that had Maori fighting etc were played by… well, Maori(Pakeha)* actors and extras and getting the best actor possible to do a character justice. A no-brainer really. So why not with programmes showing Indians on horseback fighting in westerns? It’s been such a learning curve for me…

*Pakeha means white (European). There are very few full-blooded Maori, most have some European ancestry, either a little or a lot. There are probably a number of white New Zealanders who may not know that they could also have a whakapapa (ie a Maori genealogy) as well as a European heritage. This would not be the case with more recent European arrivals to NZ, but with some of those who come from the original pioneering stock of the 1800s…Hmmm?

291. MJ - September 1, 2011

@283 Good quote, but Zack Snyder is a hack idiot who has never put together movie that I liked.

292. Lt. Daniels - September 1, 2011

118# Great idea putting the two stories together,” Space Seed” and “The Wrath of Khan”. I like your story all happening in the same time of the “Space Seed”.

293. MJ - September 1, 2011

@278. Well I have traveled to the South Island on vacations twice now in the past 3 years,and everybody I saw looked like white Europeans. I never ran across an Maori person once in my 4 weeks total on NZ’s South Island, and that includes major cities like Christchurch, Queenstown and Dunedin. This was disappointing, as I was looking forward to meeting some of these people and leaning more about their culture.

So NZ is a lot like the U.S. If you hang out in New York City or Aukland, you will impress yourself with how international your country is; but get out to the main parts of the country and it will be a different story entirely.

294. MJ - September 1, 2011

@274 “Zoe Saldana is an African-American actress. And how do you define “African-looking African American” anyway? There isn’t one particular template for being African, or African American. That’s like saying all black people look the same.”

Didn’t you hear: some of VulanFilmCritics best friends are African American babes who have that African-look going for them. Some of you may not be aware of this, but VulcanFilmCritic is a huge fan of Blaxplotation movies, and his favorite singer is Isaac Hayes.


295. VulcanFilmCritic - September 1, 2011

@ 286 Jack :” We should be able to talk about race/ethnicity on here — we’re all part of at least one. And it’s not like the world has moved beyond race…
And, heck, Hollywood’s still not good at this generally — non-Native American actors have long played Native Americans. same goes for a lot of non-white ethnicities…”
And @ 290 Keachick: “Actually I did think that the Indians in the American TV westerns were played by native American Indians.”

Well, thank you, Jack and Keachick. But don’t get me started on the issue of Native Americans not being asked to play Native Americans. The best we usually get is Lou Diamond Phillips.

This video shows the extent of this problem:

(I promise this DOES get the discussion back to Star Trek.)

296. VulcanFilmCritic - September 1, 2011

@ 294 MJ :”Didn’t you hear: some of VulanFilmCritics best friends are African American babes who have that African-look going for them. Some of you may not be aware of this, but VulcanFilmCritic is a huge fan of Blaxplotation movies, and his favorite singer is Isaac Hayes.”

Well, two out of three ain’t bad.
(I’m not that fond of Isaac Hayes as a singer, but as the voice of Chef on South Park, he’s superb.)

297. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 1, 2011

MJ – I think you are correct. However, I must point out that in pre-European times, there was always only one Maori tribe inhabiting the South Island – Ngai Tahu. It is generally too cold for most people of Polynesian and/or Melanesian origins. Maori have also migrated north in search of work as well. This has also been the case for many white Europeans.

However, on the middle East Coast of the North Island is the Maori tribe Ngati Porou and there are a lot of Maori there. The coast line is rugged and utterly gorgeous. The countryside is rugged and also utterly gorgeous and not built out at all and it is often easier for many Maori/Pakeha kids to ride horseback to school and back again from their hill country farms…Gisborne is the “metropolis” for that area. I remember getting badly sunburnt lying (fell asleep from memory) on a gorgeous beach (safe, glorious swimming) there in Gisborne when I was a kid.

Oh dear, where is that announcement? Do you really want people to keep going off topic all the time? As I said on another thread here – “JJ, it is better out than in…” (Shrek), except, as my better half reminded me, when it comes to sex, then “it is better in than out!” Sigh, it must be all this waiting on the announcement that will come very, very soon, that I forget expressions with such meaning and import like “it is better in than out”.


298. NCM - September 1, 2011

@290: “Actually I did think that the Indians in the American TV westerns were played by native American Indians.”

Wish it were so. Few were cast in speaking rolls; fewer in lead roles. Nimoy & Doohan played American Indians, incidentally, and in the last big screen Indian tale I recall, Daniel Day-Lewis unconvincingly played a Mohican.

Race in America is a rapidly changing landscape. Per polls, the majority of U.S. kids now graduating high school don’t see race or sexual orientation as an issue (I know, these are issues for many among the minorities). Furthermore, U.S. Anglos are well aware that our minority status is just ’round the bend.

My hometown, Madison, WI, was lily white 20 years ago, but I was struck by the eclectic composition of the throngs of families and couples at a local mall, recently. One couldn’t have cast a more diverse crowd without alien make-up. Surprisingly, when I asked my octogenarian mother (outspokenly bigoted toward blacks and Jews, well into her forties) what she thought of it, she said, “I think it’s good.”

I love seeing how people can change, even late in life. Like so many grandparents throughout much of the U.S., today, she loves some some highly pigmented grandchildren.

299. Jack - September 1, 2011

But, we’re far from having a post-racial society… Ethnic, racial and religious conflicts are still alive and well.

Heck, I grew up in Canada under this ridiculous idea that racism was something that only happened in the States — and that’s utter bullshit. We’ve treated Aboriginal people abysmally. And a lot of people may not be openly racist, but it’s still at play. And, Keachick, from what I’ve read and heard from friends who’ve lived and worked there, things don’t seem perfect in NZ and Australia. It’s pretty tough to speak for one’s own country about racism or sexism etc. if you personally haven’t seen it… that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

I sure hope things are changing.

300. Canon Schmanon - September 1, 2011

279. Keachick – Sorry if you did not understand my humorous description of the prolific people behind Star Trek. If you’re not too familiar with me here, I generally have quite a bit of praise for the team behind Trek09. Between them all, they have quite a few different series’ behind them. I was in to way trying to be demeaning.

It is the people bitching about race here that I felt downgraded things. Simply MY OPINION, so I claimed it thusly. You must have felt personally targeted to go digging up my previous comment. Maybe you’re being a little oversensitive, perhaps easily offended?

Whatever. My love to you anyway. Bye!

301. dmduncan - September 1, 2011

298: “in the last big screen Indian tale I recall, Daniel Day-Lewis unconvincingly played a Mohican.”

Daniel Day Lewis played Hawkeye, a white male and adopted son of Chingachgook, a Mohican.

Mann’s best movie, I think.

302. Red Dead Ryan - September 1, 2011


Daniel Day-Lewis was playing a white man who had been adopted by the Mohican tribe and given the name “Hawkeye” after his biological parents were killed. DDL was excellent, and the movie is one of Michael Mann’s best.

303. Odkin - September 1, 2011

To all the America critics –
You’re welcome. We’re glad that our umbrella of free security has helped to finance your holier-than-thou socialist experiments.

But times are changing. Get ready to have to pay your own way.

304. dmduncan - September 1, 2011

299: “We’ve treated Aboriginal people abysmally. And a lot of people may not be openly racist, but it’s still at play.”

Yep. Including forced sterilizations of American Indian women. South Dakota. Beautiful state (and could fill a room with X files from that place), but Rapid City is a milder version of the old south for racism, at least with regard to Indians.

305. Red Dead Ryan - September 1, 2011


Who’s blaming America? I just see people acknowledging common social problems rooted in their native countries. Nobody said racism is purely an American problem. It’s a global problem. Stop jumping on people who have differing opinions. And start learning to read posts properly before answering them with your own pompous, snarky comments!

306. dmduncan - September 1, 2011

303. Odkin – September 1, 201

Every patriot is a critic when their country is doing something very wrong.

307. Harry Ballz - September 1, 2011


I’d accuse you of “calling the kettle black”, but you’d probably say I’m guilty of profiling.

308. NCM - September 1, 2011

It’s been a while since I saw Mohicans. I’m sure I stand corrected, but I think the point still stands; that most actors cast in significant roles as Native Americans have not been. There’s one…; well known, seems to be cast in every role that aims for authenticity. I can’t think of his name. At risk of committing another bad, I think he was a lead in Mohicans – the dad?

Wow, these topics are getting far from Trek. Yes, I think we’re in a holding pattern – News, soon, please. The center cannot hold.

309. Jack - September 1, 2011

303. Are you kidding?

310. MJ - September 1, 2011

@298 “Daniel Day-Lewis unconvincingly played a Mohican.”

Huh??? He played a white guy???

311. MJ - September 1, 2011

@295 “But don’t get me started on the issue of Native Americans,”

Believe me, the last thing we want to do is give you a chance to pontificate further regarding your 1950’s era stereotype remarks concerning races.

@303 ” To all the America critics – You’re welcome. We’re glad that our umbrella of free security has helped to finance your holier-than-thou socialist experiments. But times are changing. Get ready to have to pay your own way.”


312. Cygnus-X1 - September 1, 2011

271. Adolescent Nightmare – August 31, 2011

—-252. I attribute my longevity to plenty of carrots.—-

Studies show that the most influential factor of lifespan is genetics, but there’s something to carrots and their health benefits. I know a woman who appears to have cured her own cancer by ingesting massive amounts of carrots, largely in fresh-pressed juice form, every day for months. It may have turned her slightly orange, but her cancer went away without any western medicine.

313. Cygnus-X1 - September 1, 2011

304. dmduncan – September 1, 2011

—-South Dakota. Beautiful state (and could fill a room with X files from that place), but Rapid City is a milder version of the old south for racism, at least with regard to Indians.—-

Beautiful to look at perhaps, but not in the way it treats its people. They outlawed abortion a few years ago, even in cases of rape and incest.

314. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 1, 2011

Yes, there is racism in NZ. I have never denied it. There is an statutory body called the Waitangi Tribunal, which was set up in 1975, in an effort to redress the serious issues of confiscation of land belonging to Maori, especially in the Maori Land Wars in the 1860s, and where Maori got far less than they legitimately should have got when they did sell land. It is likely that some Maori were ignorant and naive, but not all.

There were also laws that forbade Maori from speaking their own language in any public place. They could be arrested. That law was repealed sometime in the 1960’s. I was pretty disgusted when I found out about this. Now, in all primary (elementary) schools throughout NZ, basic instruction in the Maori language is now a compulsory part of the curriculum and everyone gets to learn to sing the first verse of the NZ National Anthem in Maori.

Maori do tend to underachieve educationally and therefore on socioeconomic levels. Some of this is, I think, due to a slightly different cultural perspective and there is for some, a feeling of disenfranchisement and anger which has been passed down the generations. The loss of land and the widespread deforestation that took place meant that their staple food sources were no longer there in the large numbers previously, ie birds and wild Polynesian pigs as well having no land or little in the way of decent land to cultivate their staple vegetable, Maori kumara (sweet potato). A great many were forced to seek shelter and food in the cities (which meant employment – European style) when, legitimately, they should not have had to do that. They were not prepared education-wise nor culturally.

(Similar widespread deforestation has been happening in South America and is still going on, except that the population is much greater and has lead to the formation of huge ghettos in places like Rio de Janiero).

Unfortunately, the situation is far worse for the Australian aboriginal people. They really have been marginalised and deliberately disadvantaged by better educated and very unscrupulous and racist Europeans who first colonized Australia. Another aspect is that Australia started out as a penal colony, so some of the worst criminals, as well as some starving youth caught stealing an apple, were sent down under to incredibly harsh conditions. When, if they did get released, they were poor, uneducated and hardened. Hating someone with a dark skin and unusual looking aboriginal features was an OK thing to do, so they did it and more. Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for those who get dumped on a lot to start dumping on others, especially those who appear far more vulnerable and are in a minority who are misunderstood and reviled by the majority of *good, upstanding citizens”. It helps these people feel part of regular society again.

I understand similar instances took place when the blacks were finally freed from slavery in America. Their behaviour and attitude towards the native American Indians was not much different to that of Europeans. It is also likely that it helped these blacks feel part of a regular society. “Oh goody. More people to crap on us…” so saith an Indian…

315. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 1, 2011

“Beautiful to look at perhaps, but not in the way it treats its people. They outlawed abortion a few years ago, even in cases of rape and incest”

I was taken back a bit. I thought for a moment you were talking about Nazi Germany, especially when in the same state, forced sterilizations of American Indian women could also take place.

316. MJ - September 1, 2011

Down in the Australia-New Zealand region, didn’t the Australians do forced sterilizations and practice breaking up aboriginal families up until the 1970’s? I learned about this recently and was absolutely stunned to hear about it.

317. VulcanFilmCritic - September 2, 2011

@311. MJ: “@295 “But don’t get me started on the issue of Native Americans,”
Believe me, the last thing we want to do is give you a chance to pontificate further regarding your 1950’s era stereotype remarks concerning races.

If you don’t believe me, LOOK AT THIS VIDEO!

This video shows the extent of this problem:

P.S. I guess you weren’t around in the 1950’s. I was. There are no stereotypical remarks concerning race, because people didn’t talk about such things back then.

318. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 2, 2011

I have heard about the break up of families but not about forced sterilizations.

319. Gert Waterink - September 2, 2011

“A chance to breathe” ?? Come on. By now we should be realistic. Paramount doesn’t considere the Star Trek franchise as vital anymore. Hence the fact that other production companies need to jump on the bandwagon to co-produce a new Trek film.

And it is obvious that the rebooted Trek had to wait for other, more important Paramount movie franchises, like Indiana Jones and Transformers. And let’s be frank. Star Trek 2009 didn’t come close to earn $500 million worldwide.

Having said that……even JJ Abrahms couldn’t bring back alive Star Trek in a Star Wars-ian way. And that is the real reason a new Star Trek movie has to wait….again. It seems the 1980’s and 1990’s were far more intellectual and positive for Star Trek then the current times of fear and negativity.


320. Jai - September 2, 2011

Re: #275

“The adorable Ms. Saldana just does not look like someone from Africa.”

Yes she does. There are plenty of Somalians and Ethiopians who look like that, and I’ve even met a number of Nigerians with similar features.

“Nichelle Nichols on the other hand had features of a Nigerian, so she was perfect for the part.”

Uhura wasn’t a Nigerian, she was a Swahili-speaking East African.

321. Jai - September 2, 2011

Dmduncan, Keachick, re: #304

“Yep. Including forced sterilizations of American Indian women.”

As if that wasn’t disturbing enough already, unfortunately those kinds of eugenics programmes also targeted the rest of the American population and stretched across 27 American states. Their aim was to eliminate 10% of the population at a time, ie. 14 million people each time, with the ultimate goal of removing the reproductive capability of as much as 90% of the US population.

In the end, they successfully managed to forcibly sterilise 60,000 Americans (mostly women), with many of the victims tricked into it. California consistently had the highest numbers of such forced sterilisations. The US-based eugenics movement (including the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Institution) even spent fortunes to finance its counterpart in Nazi Germany.

This article provides full details and is one of the most shocking articles I’ve ever read (at least in a respected mainstream newspaper):

The sheer scale of what was involved, and the extent of support it had at very high levels, is absolutely horrifying.

322. Harry Ballz - September 2, 2011

The next Star Trek movie may be suffering from, what I call, Lone Ranger Syndrome.

The Lone Ranger film, that was to star Johnny Depp and cost up to $250 million to produce, was cancelled because it wouldn’t have “international appeal” like Transformers and Harry Potter did, making over a billion dollars each.

The studios seem determined to pursue that market, even if it means throwing out the last Trek script and “encouraging” the Supreme Court to now write a Khan rehash so they can cast a Bollywood superstar in said role. The suits think this will attract the desired foreign market audience.

Hollywood has it’s head up it’s ass!

323. boborci - September 2, 2011

There is no last trek script. The story we intend to shoot has never changed.

324. dmduncan - September 2, 2011

308: “There’s one…; well known, seems to be cast in every role that aims for authenticity. I can’t think of his name. At risk of committing another bad, I think he was a lead in Mohicans – the dad?”

Russell Means. He’s been diagnosed with throat cancer and is going home for his last days.

325. MJ - September 2, 2011

@317. Don’t have a clue as to you what you are talking about. What I’m talking about are your very inappropriate remarks about Zoe and is she African looking enough to be black. Stop trying to change the subject and dig yourself out of what you said. This tactic reminds of that other guy who I no longer talk to on these boards.

326. MJ - September 2, 2011

@323, God bless you, Bob – you finally tell us something useful. Thanks!!!!!

327. MJ - September 2, 2011

His is a bit of history on sterilizatoin programs for nation peopl in the Austrailia-New Zealand portion of our world:

“Australia had a eugenics program that was perused much longer than other counties. We do not know the full extent of the program. We do know that it was applied against the country’s aboriginal population. Like the NAZI Lebensborn program, it was aimed at kidnapping children from their parents. Overtime Austrlians had began to notice half-caste children being raised by Aborigines. Almost always this meant children of white Australian fathers being raised by Aborigine mothers. Apparently some Australians were offended by the site of children who looked white being raised by Aborigine mothers. As a result, laws were passed to give uthoitiess the legal right to remove these children from their mothers. Authorities believed that the Aborigines would eventually die out and that it was desirable to breed the Aboriginal characteristics out of the Australian green pool. This program continued until 1970. It has recently come to the public attention by a book, The Rabbit Proof Fence written by the daughter of on of the children removed. The movie of the same title is largely factual.”

“When the British came, bringing their diseases with them, coastal communities were virtually wiped out by smallpox. Even as late as the 1950s, large numbers of Aborigines in remote regions of South Australia and the Northern Territory succumbed to deadly outbreaks of influenza and measles. Although relationships between the settlers and Aborigines were initially peaceful, conflicts over land and food led to skirmishes in which Aborigines were massacred and settlers and convicts attacked. Governor Phillip was speared in the back by an Aborigine in 1790. Within a few years, some 10,000 Aborigines and 1,000 Europeans had been killed in Queensland alone, while in Tasmania, a campaign to rid the island entirely of local Aborigines was ultimately successful, with the last full-blooded Tasmanian Aborigine dying in 1876. By the start of the 20th century, the Aboriginal people were considered a dying race. Most of those who remained lived in government-owned reserves or church-controlled missions. Massacres of Aborigines continued to go largely or wholly unpunished into the 1920s, by which time it was official government policy to remove light-skinned Aboriginal children from their families and to sterilize young Aboriginal women. Many children of the “stolen generations” were brought up in white foster homes or church refuges and never reunited with their biological families — in fact, many children with living parents were told that their parents were dead. This process occurred even into the 1970s.”

328. Jack - September 2, 2011

My comments aren’t being published….

329. dmduncan - September 2, 2011

328. Jack – September 2, 2011

Jack, you may be using a forbidden keyword that is causing your whole post to vanish.

330. MJ - September 2, 2011

Sweden practiced forced sterilizations as well:

“Already in the 1920s Sweden established the State Institute for Race Biology that was to operate until the 1950s. State institutions, such as this institute, party ideologists and leading politicians formulated the sterilization programs in an attempt to improve the nation’s genetic material by insuring that citizens who were considered to be “insufficient”, “imbecil”, “deviant” and “a burden to society” would not have children. The legal base to this practice was passed by parliament in true democratic fashion.”

331. Red Dead Ryan - September 2, 2011

I watched “The Last Of The Mohicans” last night while listening to the commentary. Michael Mann really went out of his way to actually learn about the history of what really went on during the events of the French-Indian War era.

He did his homework, something a lot of today’s directors DON’T do enough of!

Also, Wes Studi, who played Magwa (sp?) also co-starred in Michael Mann’s “Heat” and played Netyri’s (Zoe Saldana) father in James Cameron’s “Avatar”.

332. dmduncan - September 2, 2011

321. Jai – September 2, 2011

I don’t think it’s all in the past. Can somebody tell me how you control third world populations using “vaccines”? Vaccines are a combative against disease. If you eliminate disease using vaccines, won’t people survive and populations go UP because they aren’t dying as much? So how do you control the birthrate using vaccines and the other things Bill gates hints at vaguely in a talk at TED? And why doesn’t anybody in the MSM even notice? The MSM is about as curious these days as George Bush snoring in a hammock.

Somewhere after 4:30

333. Dee - lvs moon' surface - September 2, 2011

# 324 – boborci… “There is no last trek script. The story we intend to shoot has never changed.

Do not get hooked by Harry Ballz, Mr. Bob Orci … he was just throwing the bait!… He’s bad…………….I’m just kidding again…

And …

Someone said that to talk about shirtless guys is not relevant … well, at least it has less risky to be misunderstood… a mohawk haircut in the brain…………… kidding … LOL

We need real Trek news … “soon” …………………………or later ….+LOL

:-) :-)

334. Dee - lvs moon' surface - September 2, 2011

#324 – boborci …I mean …. the numbering … I’m dizzy again…

:-) ;-)

335. Dee - lvs moon' surface - September 2, 2011

# 323 – boborci …SORRY!!!


:-) :-)

336. Harry Ballz - September 2, 2011

323. “There is no last trek script.The story we intend to shoot has never changed”

Bob Orci

I was just speculating, but thanks for bitch-slapping my comment and providing clarification.

The bait worked!

I know, I know……..'”Curse you, Harry!”


337. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 2, 2011

“Bitch-slapping”? Bob Orci was clarifying information about the story/script – nothing more, or so his comment seemed to me.

Jack – I hope you do find that *illegitimate word* and deal unto it, so that we might be able to read your posts that have not been published yet. Let us know what the “bad” word is. Really, it is getting quite stupid that whole posts vanish because someone uses certain totally legitimate words – in that they are found in any reputable English dictionary and they are not deemed to be any kind of slang or swear words. Grossly annoying and insulting.

Anthony, staff – what is going on here?

338. MJ - September 2, 2011

@336. So Bob is “Bitch Slapping Harry Ballz”…now that sounds painful…but then again, Harry may be into that sort of thing? This is certainly is an escalation from his days of Star Wars planking…


339. AJ - September 2, 2011


You’re wearing Bob down!

By 2016, maybe he’ll toss you his “Great Tribble-Hunt” script!

340. Harry Ballz - September 2, 2011

MJ, if Bob likes to “slap those ballz”, there are better and more fun ways to do it! :>)

AJ, my plan worked!

341. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - September 2, 2011

Ok. for some fun. If these Icon Charicters from other movies were Capt of the Enterprise in battle against an Enemy.

1.Scar Face. Hey Klingons. Say Hello to my little Friends. Fires a Spread of Torpedoes that blows them up.
2. Dirty Harry. All right Romulan Commander. Did I fire 6 Torpedoes or 7. In all then excitement I lost count. So you have to ask your self this one question. Do I feel Lucky. Well do you . Punks.
3. Godfather. Hey Klingons. I’m going to make you an offer you can’t refuse.
4. Darth Vader. Borg. If you only knew the power of the dark side of the force.
5. Darth Vader. Borg Queen. I am your father. Queen. NO!!!!!!!!
6. John Mcclain. Hey Klingons. Yipi ka a m#ther f#cker. Blows them up.
7. Hulk Hogan. Let me tell you something Borg. Whatcha ya gonna do when Star Fleet runs wild on you. Rips off uniform and posses.
8. Termanator. Borg. Hasta la vista. Baby. Blows them up.
9. John Wayne. lucky for you Klingons i’m not a vilant man. Like hell I am not. Fires all weapons and destroys the Romulans.
10. Dark Helmet. If only you knew the power of the Schwartz.

342. NCM - September 2, 2011

Mr. Ballz, your are such an ass – by that, of course, I mean only ‘silly donkey.’

You make me LOL at almost every post; even when I think you’ve crossed the line. It’s a guilty pleasure. Thanks, you nasty brat, and please keep up the service!

343. NCM - September 2, 2011

@332; how vaccines might help control population

In areas of the world where vaccine preventable diseases make survival to adulthood a goal rather than an expectation, parents have more children than they may be able to feed in hope of having some survive to adulthood. An outbreak in a village may wipe out the majority of one’s children.

344. dmduncan - September 2, 2011

343. NCM – September 2, 2011

From the perspective of those living under such miserable conditions, that makes sense. But that does not account for the concealing of pregnancy aborting HCG in tetanus vaccines and describing them as tetanus vaccines to thousands of third world women.

Given the lack of media interest and scrutiny about what rich first world philanthropists are doing to third world people, I will err on the side of distrust in light of some very deceitful history.

345. Jack - September 2, 2011

337. I think it was health…. care.

346. dmduncan - September 2, 2011


347. dmduncan - September 2, 2011


ins_urance never worked before. If you had ins_urance in your post, maybe that was it.

348. Jack - September 2, 2011

And just on the radio was a piece about youth suicides in a northern Ontario native community — a population of 2500 and they count for something like 15% of Ontario’s (population 13+ million) youth suicides. They live in third-world conditions (no running water, no septic systems, incredible poverty, uninhabitable homes crowded with people and substance [solvent and gasoline] abuse).

345. Anthony doesn’t like politics getting discussed on here… ;) although, I don’t think health…. care is necessarily a political issue (although it’s been made so by an insure… ance industry and docs’ associations spending millions on advertising and fear …mon.. ger…ing… just as they did in Canada years ago, back when people went bank… rupt over medic al bills [it was fought tooth and nail… with people worried by advertising campaigns against having the state in their docs offices, which didn’t happen… heck, docs in one province went on a strike for a month to protest, denying people medical ser vice entirely… then they ultimately figured out that they could still be rich under the ‘new’ insure.. ance system ])…

This was prompted by Odkin’s social… is t experiments comment… but human rights are a very Trekian topic, and good to debate/discuss…

349. Jack - September 2, 2011

You’re right… about healthcare…

350. Jack - September 2, 2011

DM, Yep, it’s insure ance. Thanks!


Wow. What else doesn’t work? I may soon be making some very odd one word posts…


351. dmduncan - September 2, 2011

p_orn doesn’t work. Not my discovery. I think Basement Blogger found that one.

352. NCM - September 2, 2011

@344, dmduncan; I can appreciate your perspective, given your beliefs, but I could find no secular sources backing claims that UNICEF vaccinated millions of women in the 1990’s with vaccines intended to prevent or abort pregnancy. If it were so, it would be appalling, and it would sell headlines. Whatever we think of the media, it lives to sell headlines.

353. MJ - September 2, 2011

@352. “I could find no secular sources backing claims that UNICEF vaccinated millions of women in the 1990’s with vaccines intended to prevent or abort pregnancy.”

That’s because it never happened.

354. MJ - September 2, 2011

NCM, we lose huge numbers of children to neonatal tetanus and untold thousands of vulnerable children have died or will die because such vaccine programs have been slowed down or halted, so it would be much simpler to simply not do a tetanus vaccine. The fact that the complaints come from a Catholic group opposed to contraception anyway, makes me suspect of the religious motivation for the constructed mythology reported here.

Don’t believe everything your read here on this site NCM as there are some people who believe in some pretty weird shit here.

355. dmduncan - September 2, 2011

352. NCM – September 2, 2011

First, what do you mean by “secular sources”? You mean MSM sources? The link I provided was to a transcript of a BBC program on the question.

Second, I have a problem with the word “intended” since intentions can only be definitively ascertained by being the person who has them and for all intentions other than our own personal ones we have to make do with inferences from a large number of factors, or else throw up our hands and say the world outside our heads is unknowable. I have yet to meet a successful solipsist, so that isn’t a serious position to take in my view. Thus, intentions get established enough to form the basis of decision and action; it isn’t all or nothing, i.e., one hundred percent established — or not at all.

It is sufficient that HCG/Beta HCG are not components of tetanus vaccines, that HCG/Beta HCG causes loss of pregnancy, and that those vaccines were given to thousands of third world women (only women) who were not told of this interesting side effect. Unless you have an explanation for how HCG could occur naturally in tetanus vaccines, then it is a reasonable suspicion that HCG got in the vaccines because it was put there by those who made it for the effect that it caused. The notion that the makers of these difficult to make vaccines are bumbling idiots who didn’t know what they were doing is difficult to accept.

But if you are saying that this is all unbelievable because you didn’t hear it on the same news programs that helped to sell the Iraq war over nonexistent WMDs — whose nonexistence allowed us to kill thousands of Iraqi men, women, and children — well then I do understand. That does seem to be how most people think.

If they don’t report on it, then it must not be happening.

As for the “headlines” matter, I’m afraid I can’t share your belief. The MSM is very selective about what they make headlines out of, as Jon Stewart made hilarious sport of recently:

356. dmduncan - September 2, 2011

OOh, I see. You think that because Catholics had the stuff tested that they must be lying. Well I don’t discount people I don’t agree with like that.

“Philippine women may have been unwittingly vaccinated against their own children, a recent study conducted by the Philippine
Medical Association (PMA) has indicated.”

HCG found by the PMA.

357. dmduncan - September 2, 2011

Jack, am I remembering things wrongly? Didn’t you once say in here you were a journalist?

358. Harry Ballz - September 2, 2011

342. NCM

Uh, thanks! I see by the acronym you post under that you are a massage therapist.

NCM obviously stands for No Come Massages. I respect your moral integrity.

359. MJ - September 2, 2011

@358. Ah Harry, no happy ending here for you, eh?

360. MJ - September 2, 2011

Anybody else seen those horrid photos of the new Superman today? Supe’s suit is ridiculously tight — so much so that you can see his package. Groce me out! Check out the second photo in this series and tell me that you wouldn’t call the police if you saw this fellow walking next to kids at your neighborhood school:

361. Harry Ballz - September 2, 2011


Oh, come now, MJ!

362. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 2, 2011

#362 – Oh, Harry. This is a “no mess” board.

#361 – Nice picture. Of course, in the olden days, it was common for men to wear cod pieces, which made a man often look considerably bigger. Was there more or less incest then than there is today? Somehow, I suspect the stats would have been the same then as now. Anyway, it is not the well-covered show-offs that we find that people really need to be worried about…

363. Harry Ballz - September 2, 2011

Keachick, this one is for you:

Q: What does a woman say after having six orgasms in a row?

A: “Thanks, Harry!”

364. MJ - September 2, 2011

@363 Come again?

365. Basement Blogger - September 2, 2011

Okay, since the above story was about Quinto and he’s Spock, it’s time to talk about whether the new science fiction movie “Apollo 18″ is logical. Yeah, I know Roddenberry wanted to teach us that emotion sometimes gets us in trouble. But this time let’s apply logic to Brian Miller’s screenplay.

There’s no surprises here since the trailer shows that something has entered the suit of an astronaut on the moon. The movie doesn’t really tell you what the “real” moon mission was but one of the astronauts surmises they were sent as guinea pigs by the Department of Defense. And that’s what’s wrong with this movie. It makes no sense to send men to the moon to see what spider rock monsters would do to them. Did a DOD scientist say, “Gee, that Russian got killed by the spider rock monsters, let’s see what happens when we send our American boys up there.”

Oh and by the way, Apollo 18 reminds me of Futurama’s “The Problem with Popplers.” You know the delicious things that turn out to be little aliens. Except Apollo 18 tuns rocks into spider rock monsters. By the way you really don’t get a good look at them. So Apollo 18 breaks the first rule of modern monster movies. Show the monster!

Save your money. Waif for this stinker to be on DVD for you to poop on.

366. MJ - September 3, 2011

@365. Thanks BB — I won’t be tempted to waste money on this. BTW, here is an outstanding sf novel about the Russians might have beat us to the moon — alternate history, but believable and compelling:

367. Harry Ballz - September 3, 2011


Oh come all ye faithful, joyful and triumphant!

Boy, when you really study that lyric, it sounds pretty boastful, doesn’t it?

368. AJ - September 3, 2011


Harry, do you really think that song was written about a mass ‘happy ending’ in a massage parlor?

“Come Together…Right Now…Over Me!”

Now THAT is shocking imagery.

369. NCM - September 3, 2011

dmduncan; I agree with you on almost every point, except the mass sterilization question – not saying there’s nothing to it, just that I haven’t found sources convincing enough to compel me to look further. I’ve lived long enough to see things I never thought possible become… well, President, and I’ve noted how late and how far back in newspapers stories that should headline are printed. I get it, but I think something as big as what you suggest would have gotten more attention because there are enough people like you who won’t simply assume something so deplorable is beyond us.

370. NCM - September 3, 2011

@358: Ah, Harry, you disappoint. It’s not your respect I want.

@363: “What does a woman say after having six orgasms in a row?” ‘How tidy.’

@358, 361, 363, 367: That message parlor idea really got you going – now we know how to bait Mr. Blue, I mean Ballz:-). But surely, Harry, you don’t need to go to a parlor to get your UP & comings;-}

371. Harry Ballz - September 3, 2011

368. “Come Together…Right Now…Over Me!”

AJ, I keep picturing a drunk cheerleader singing that to a bunch of football palyers standing over her…………hey, she could also sing, “It’s Raining Men!”


Not to pull a Sulu on you, NCM, but, “OH, MY!” :>)

372. Jack - September 3, 2011

361. Wow. What’s all the silvery-gold design stuff. Although, I’m kind of happy that they’ve left out the red gonch. Is there no cape? Or is it just off in this pic (or is it CGI).

PS. I hope I’m not the other guy you don’t talk to on these boards…

373. Jack - September 3, 2011

366. Sometimes showing the monster can be a real letdown for whomever you’re showing it to,

Or, so I’ve heard.

374. braxus - September 3, 2011

Ok. Its been almost a month since Abrams announced there will be an announcement within a month. Any updates on what is going on? The fact nothing has been said yet worries me.

375. dmduncan - September 3, 2011

372: “PS. I hope I’m not the other guy you don’t talk to on these boards…”

Hilarious! I don’t feel deprived. Trust me. It’s an honor I am proud to have received considering that the person making the vow was MJ. ;-)

376. Basement Blogger - September 3, 2011

@ 373 Jack

I can see how sometimes showing the alien can be a letdown. But in this day of CGI, you can design some pretty cool looking monsters. That’s maybe why they decided not to show the monsters in their full glory in Apollo 18. Because the monsters in this flick were rock monsters. No eyes, or mouths or bioluminescence. Still, how long did it take for some art director to come up with rocks with legs?.

And don’t ask me why the Department of Defense sent astronauts to see if said spider rock monsters would kill them. Don’t ask me what the rock monsters eat, breathe or how they survive the radiation. Maybe the DOD sent the guys to collect said rock monsters to bring back to earth. You know to start the pet rock craze. You see in the seventies, there was this fad to buy rocks for pets. Okay, okay I’m old. Sorry for that joke.

Hey I forgot, Star Trek had a rock monster. Remember the Excalbian in “The Savage Curtain?” As a kid, I thought it was wild looking. It had glowing eyes and claws. I’m not sure the alien’s looks holds up today. At least they gave the alien some thought.

377. Red Dead Ryan - September 3, 2011

I just took a look at the new Superman suit……looks like homoeroticism is back in fashion! I wonder if Zach Snyder is gay? He showed us skantily clad men in “300”, nippled costumes and a naked blue guy with his junk waving around in our faces in “Watchmen”, and now the ultratight Superman costume that has no cape. Guessing Mr. Snyder doesn’t want anything to hide Superman’s ass!

By the way, I enjoyed “300”. I just wished that the men were wearing something more than just underwear. :-)

As for Harry Ballz, what else can I say except for the fact that he’s proven to be the site’s “master-baiter”!

378. Red Dead Ryan - September 3, 2011


Unfortunately, many of today’s cgi monsters are often cartoonish, and over-detailed. And not what a “monster” would look like. Many times, monsters are designed without any thought to the practicalities of the anatomy. A sixty foot tall, six-legged, six-eyed, double headed creature from the sea just doesn’t cut it these days. At least for me. The early episodes of “The X-Files” for instance, featured many monsters, and some, like the Flukeman, had a humanoid appearance which I found to be highly disturbing, especially at the end of the episode when it was revealed to be a man-made monster created by careless diregard for the environment.

The salt vampire from TOS also captures my imagination because of it’s mix of human-like features as well as alien ones.

If we were to discover a real life monster (something large, and previously unknown to the scientific community), I’d have to think it would’nt be all that spectacular. Heck, even dinosaurs aren’t really monsters even though they have been depicted that way in pop culture.
Dinosaurs were the midpoint of evolution between reptiles and birds.

If one were to discover the Loch Ness monster, it would most likely be discovered to be an unusually large reptile, amphibian, or eel.

The discovery of bigfoot, or yeti, on the other hand, would most likely create more interest because of their theorized/imagined similarities and differences to humans.

But, on the other hand, knowing what humans have done to most species on this planet, perhaps its better to let these legends and folklore continue undiscovered and untouched. Part of the fun of monsters is knowing enough about them without knowing them.

379. Jack - September 3, 2011

Oh, and the stuff on that tetanus vaccine is pretty scary. Wow. I’m interested in what’s happened since and whether it was confirmed…

380. dmduncan - September 3, 2011

380. Jack – September 3, 2011

Oh, and the stuff on that tetanus vaccine is pretty scary. Wow. I’m interested in what’s happened since and whether it was confirmed…


Last night the PubMed link was not working, so I did not post it. I’m interested as well, Jack.

381. dmduncan - September 3, 2011

The second link seems to show that independently of whether it was put into tetanus vaccines, the technology to prevent pregnancy in the way alleged by those warning about the tetanus vaccines existed at that time.

382. dmduncan - September 3, 2011

Tetanus vaccines are wonderful. The evil is to use something good as a Trojan Horse for something that the targeted population would not accept if they knew it was there, and not telling them that it is there. That’s the same old elitist eugenicist attitude toward third world people.

And of course such vaccines could be one way for those who fancy themselves overlords and who erected the Georgia Guidestones to achieve their first two nutty objectives.

But I suppose those don’t exist either? So you see, the evidence can be hard as stone how nutty some rick folk are, and others can run into it like Mr. Magoo and still say that it’s not there, proving that the human skull is often harder than stone.

I’d say a movie about Khan and the eugenics movement could be a welcome reminder of this whole subject area.

383. Basement Blogger - September 3, 2011

@ 378 RDR

On the topic of aliens and monsters, you hear many scientists bemoan that many sci-fi works have humanoid like aliens. I see their point. After all, evolution should create all kinds of varations of life forms.

Star Trek has a long history of non-humanoid aliens. Just think about the aliens from the Horta (TOS) to the aquatic and insectoid aliens of Xindi in Enterprise.

I’ve been thinking since Vulacn was destroyed in the Abrams universe, that the Andorians would take a greater role in the Federation. Could the general movie going public take the blue skinned, antennae on the head aliens seriously? I have no problem with Andorians. Aliens with antennae make sense to me. But then I’m a Trekker.

384. MJ - September 3, 2011

@377 “I just took a look at the new Superman suit……looks like homoeroticism is back in fashion! I wonder if Zach Snyder is gay? He showed us skantily clad men in “300″, nippled costumes and a naked blue guy with his junk waving around in our faces in “Watchmen”, and now the ultratight Superman costume that has no cape. Guessing Mr. Snyder doesn’t want anything to hide Superman’s ass!”

Yea, I am not looking forward to the new Superman…looks weird. Hopefully Nolan will restrain him some — like the way Warner restrained Tim Burton in his first Batman film.

@383 “Star Trek has a long history of non-humanoid aliens. Just think about the aliens from the Horta (TOS) to the aquatic and insectoid aliens of Xindi in Enterprise.”

Given the advancement of CGI, I would like to see more non-humanoid aliens in the sequels.

385. MJ - September 3, 2011

No new articles now in over a week on this site….???

386. Harry Ballz - September 3, 2011

377. “As for Harry Ballz….he’s proven to be the site’s ‘master-baiter!'”

I’d hate to see the statue they give out for this award!

387. Mel - September 3, 2011

@ 385

Superman will have a cape in the movie. Those photos were made during test shoots, where he didn’t wear it. And Superman’s costume was always very tight. The biggest difference is the lack of the red pants and the muted colours.

388. MJ - September 3, 2011

@387. It was never Chippenales-looking super tight. LOL This is a bad as that new Wonder Woman costume. They would be wise to correct this while they still can.

If I were Chris Nolan, I would take a serious look at pulling the plug on the moronic choice of Snyder for director. Bring in someone who can handle a big movie like this — a Gore Verbinski or a David Yates, for example. This creepy dude makes comic-pourn types of movies that aren’t very good…he got lucky with 300, but the rest of his movies have just plain stunk. Watchman was unwatchable (pun intended), and Sucker Punch was just plain idiotic.

389. AJ - September 3, 2011

Yes, it is now ‘officially’ time for some info on this film.

The US has a long weekend, but the world is ready for something real next week.

There is a credibility factor at stake with the hired team amongst “Star Trek’ fans, and Bob, Alex and even Damon, I think, still fall hardily within that zone. Credible, dedicated writers. Dedicated to “Star Trek” due to a special place in their hearts for the franchise. Damon doing some catch-up.

Mr. Abrams, who has always distanced himself from the franchise, yet expressed his love for, in ‘”09,” Mr. Nimoy, and in the latest talks, “the group,” would seem to be either the reason for the delay (worst case), or the one negotiating with the studio. Bob mentioned to Harry Ballz and to all of us that the story is in. Done.

I think JJ Abrams, after “Lost,” and all his creations, and especially with “Trek,” realizes that we all sleep in the same bed these days. He farts in California, and we hear it here in Russia. I think that’s how they remember “Cloverfield” here ;-)

Laughs aside, “Show on the road,” please. Millions of us are waiting!

390. Jack - September 3, 2011

Well, in the 300 and Watchmen, Snyder was, er, sticking pretty tightly to the comics, and heck, in most modern Supes comics you see every sinew. I don’t know, I don’t think the codpiece is that crazy — cavil revealed the, ‘er monster/ went full frontal on the Tudors, and, he apparently needs the room, damn him.

Back to nitpicking, i do find his hair kind of crazy in some of those shots. I guess the guy has bushy hair, so we’re stuck with it.

391. Jack - September 3, 2011

385, 389. Dude, when did you get so darned negative? ;)

392. NCM - September 3, 2011

Sorry guys, but I find it utterly delightful to hear you bemoan the loss of male modesty. Don’t expect sympathy from the other half – whose swimsuit options have only ever been a choice between frumpy or exposed.

Sci. fi., graphic novels, and their numerous cousins, have been particularly expressive in revealing women. Seven, Troi, Deltan and Orion women come to my mind, but you can likely offer countless better examples – if you can distract yourselves from Supe’s little front bump and missing cape:-) Sorry, again, but… were you serious about the cape? LTC (laughed ’til I cried). Supe’s glute display will be less remarkable than Troi’s and Seven’s and let’s not even compare frontal landscapes.

Take heart, the revealing of (Super)man, if part of an emerging media trend, may benefit you. Women in our culture consider male anatomy disgusting (did you know that?). Considering our own endowments, I find this squeamishness odd, but I suspect it has to do with familiarity and exposure, or lack thereof. All kind of Media ensures that all of us are far more exposed to the female form than to that of the male.

In any case, I think women are outgrowing our country’s myopic sexual revolution. Many are finding men appealing beyond face, hands, personality, and wit. Exposure’s not all good or all bad, and to those who assume this and all skimpy costumes reflect male interest – in this case, someone suggested homosexual interest, I say maybe Hollywood’s positioning to ride and steer winds of change.

Prepare for exposure, fellas, but see that this case of bump and cape isn’t worthy of much excitement. After-all, male Olympic divers go cape-less and sport only a fraction of the Spandex shaping the Supe suit.

393. Jack - September 3, 2011

393. Hear, hear!

394. MJ - September 3, 2011

@392. I don’t have a problem with male modesty. But I also don’t want to see Superman’s schlong. Call me crazy.

395. MJ - September 3, 2011

Above and beyond this minor issues of Superman’s costume, I predict that the Snyder-led Superman movie is going to be a resounding dud.

396. Red Dead Ryan - September 3, 2011


Yes, but there is a difference between “monsters” and “aliens”. Monsters are more animalistic in terms of behaviour, and rely more on instinct. They are meant to frighten, but in the case of Frankenstein and Dr.Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, can serve as a mirror for humans in terms of our deepest, most primal instincts and behaviours. Aliens on the other hand, are usually thought of as human-like in terms of forming words of communication, processes of thought and ideas, as well as forms of mating and survival. And in most cases, they’re pictured as being more advanced in those ways than we are. Aliens would need technology of some sort, just like us, to traverse the stars. Extraterrestrials (the ones able to travel through space) are also assumed to be more advanced physiologically as well as technologically.

Monsters, on the other hand, are primitive in how they cope with their surroundings. Doesn’t mean their unintelligent. Just like

An Andorian wouldn’t bother anybody, I suspect.

And I never said that an alien can’t be non-humanoid. What I said were some of my personal favorite monsters from pop culture featured humanoid characteristics.


In the words of the Pimple-Faced Kid from “The Simpsons”:

“I don’t think he’s coming back!”


I suspect the tropphy would look a lot like an Oscar, except that instead of the man holding his staff directed down, he’d be holding it out horizontally!


I agree with you about Zach Snyder. He’s a one-hit wonder. “300” is a classic, while “Watchmen” was boring as hell, with the rubber nippled Night Owl feeling like a Joel Schumacher reject. Awful. Didn’t bother with “Sucker Punch”. I’ll see “The Man Of Steel”, but I’m not looking forward to it as much as I am for Christopher Nolan’s “The Dark Knight Rises”. I think “Superman: The Man Of Steel” would have been better off wtih Chris Nolan as director and Brandon Routh as Superman. I really liked Routh. He should have gotten a second chance. Oh well.

397. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 3, 2011

#393 NCM – “Women in our culture consider male anatomy disgusting (did you know that?). Considering our own endowments, I find this squeamishness odd, but I suspect it has to do with familiarity and exposure, or lack thereof.”

Really? I must have missed something. I am female and I do not find the human male anatomy disgusting. At times I thought it a little odd, but generally rather appealing to my eyes. Frankly, a full erection on a lovely, well toned man is a beautiful sight and even on someone who is not as nicely as proportioned as some men are, such as my better half.

I don’t consider my “own endowments” disgusting. After having and nursing three babies, my breasts don’t look the way they did when I was 16 or whatever, but they are still reasonably attractive and what’s more cancer free (had a screening done recently).

Why are people so negative and squeamish about their bodies, especially their reproductive organs and breasts given to us to procreate and nourish the little ones who have been created? Without these, we would not be here. Do our lives and the lives of others mean so little to us?

398. MJ - September 3, 2011

@397. I am not squeamish about anyone’s bodies. Let me repeat though — I don’t want to see Superman’s schlong. That is not what I go to see a Superman film for.

399. Adolescent Nightmare - September 3, 2011


Don’t just leave us hanging. Where can we see these Superman pics?

400. NCM - September 3, 2011

@394: ‘I don’t want to see Superman’s schlong,’

I know the feeling. It was difficult to look past Seven’s display racks, to enjoy the character.

Keachick, I thought we established that we’re not from the same culture. Women in NZ (is it?) may be more enlightened (but shouldn’t be presumed to be so).

I share your appreciation for anatomy, if not your reverence. Many American men, however, do appear to worship breasts — Here’s to the enlightened beast!

401. MJ - September 3, 2011

@400 “I know the feeling. It was difficult to look past Seven’s display racks, to enjoy the character.”

I agree completely. If I want to see T&A and schlongs, I can find plenty of movies/media to give me that; I don’t need that in Trek or Superman. Well said!

402. Red Dead Ryan - September 3, 2011


403. Jack - September 3, 2011

I still don’t see any schlong (that’s what she sai…) in the pics. Buddy’s gotta put his somewhere.

404. Harry Ballz - September 3, 2011

397. Keachick “Frankly, a full erection on a lovely, well toned man is a beautiful sight”

An erection? Hey, isn’t that how they pick a president in Japan?

405. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 4, 2011

NCM – I was speaking for myself as a female and I was not making generalizations about how women in my culture or anyone else’s culture may feel about the male anatomy. However, you were – “Women in our culture consider male anatomy disgusting…”.

How do you know that? From the little I have read on boards to do with say, Chris Pine, a number of the female respondents, most of whom seem to be American, are more than a little interested in his “package” and appear to be anything but disgusted with the notion of perhaps getting a peek.

Perhaps they, like myself, are a minority. NZ culture can be a little different, but the majority of its white population share the basic racial, religious and cultural origins with much of the American population.

406. MJ - September 4, 2011

@404 ““Frankly, a full erection…”

So Harry, you like Frank, eh, dude?

407. Jack - September 4, 2011

I totally agree that the skintight costumes on 7, Troi and T Pol were silly.

And this one does look a little silly too, as well as cripplingly uncomfortable, heck, wasn’t Ryan Reynolds just in his skivvies for most of green lantern (and they CGId him a costume)… Maybe it’ll look better on film….

408. AJ - September 4, 2011


This thread needs an enema.

“4 Years May Be a Good Thing” says ZQ. And we’re talking schlongs. Superman’s even. Harry’s favorite subject, especially if he’s standing over a cheerleader.

If I can say anything positive about Zack Snyder outside of “300,” he did a little animated film based on clans of anthropomorphic owls which made my two school-age kids run to the library for the books on which it’s based. It’s called “The Legend of the Guardians of Ga-hoole” or something like that. Nice little piece of work.

409. Dee - lvs moon' surface - September 4, 2011

#399 – Adolescent Nightmare …

Superman pics here:

410. Jack - September 4, 2011

Seeing it with the cape, it doesn’t look bad at all. The eye does gravitate toward the bulge (studies say it’s the first place guys, gay and straight, look), which isn’t necessarily exaggerated (I mean, that costume is tighter than if it had been painted on, and, again, his yoink has to go somewhere ). I don’t get the chippendale’s reference…i mean, i get it, but has anyone seen the comics Superman in recent years — dude is way beefier in tye comics — supes has always been in a tight costume (Routh’s space-travel costume was as tight). I don’t see this as geared to titillate — and the costume with the built in underwear is getting tougher and tougher to explain (it’s silly, but it’s the way it’s always been).heck, in Superman returns there was a big stink about.the codpiece of his costume being too big… To which Singer replied, “well, he is a Super *man*.

Heck, in Decker’s onesie in TMP, you can definitely tell what religion he is.

I lived in South Korea years ago and in men’s underwear displays in store windows, they would stuff the bulges with insane amounts of paper.

But all this ‘the movie’s gonna suck’ stuff, while typical on here, is based on, what, a few photos and the director’s last movie. It might suck, but how the eff do we know, at this point.

411. NCM - September 4, 2011

Keachick, I came to the assertion by way of a column in a publication; don’t recall which, but I don’t read Cosmo or the Inquirer. It’s an interesting subject; and were I more vested in it, I might take the time to track down the research supporting – and perhaps refuting – it.

412. Jack - September 4, 2011

412. Well, this ain’t research or worth anything as evidence, but I’ve known a few women who’ve insisted on getting their infant boys circumcised because ‘foreskins look disgusting.’ Although, I’ve probably known far more who didn’t think it was an issue.

413. D-Rock - September 4, 2011

412 messages involving racism, suicide and erections…..Nerds are getting mad!!

Super-schlong needs more discussion though.

414. AJ - September 4, 2011

Spock: “Doctor? Have you heard the story of the rabbi who performed circumcisions for free?”

McCoy: “No, Spock, I haven’t.”

Spock: “He only took tips.”

McCoy: “Is that supposed to be funny, Mr. Spock?!”

Spock: “Never, Doctor.”

415. Jack - September 4, 2011


I forgot about the “Never, Doctor.”s… They were a thing, right?

414. I tried to inject healthcare into it all, but it didn’t take.

Alas, well, it ain’t a bird or a plane in his pants.

So, who reads this, er, crap (just mine) and never comments?

416. Jack - September 4, 2011

So, the rumor is that the site’s shutting down, for good. Is this true? Has this been officially announced somewhere? Anything we can do?


417. Jack - September 4, 2011

It’s on the most recent science post…

If this is goodbye, I hope y’all stay well. Thanks for sometime infuriating, often hilarious and always pretty darned fascinating conversation.

418. Andy Patterson - September 4, 2011


Get out. Are serious? If so, why?

Thisvsite’s the first thing I check everyday. Is Anthony still with us?

419. Jack - September 4, 2011

I don’t know, man. It’s a rumor. I hope it’s not true.

And, to pretend that all is swell — here’s some stuff on Superman designs that could have been, including one, apparently, from the JJ camp, which (Abrams’ heading through that revolving door) I’d forgotten about entirely…. and I call myself a nerd.

Not unlike the Snyder stuff, apart from all the silver and gold, er, gunk.

420. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 4, 2011

When Anthony does not post anything for a week or so, everybody starts freaking out that it is because he doesn’t care anymore and is likely closing down the site.

There is really nothing to report until, if, when the studio and Abrams’ team tell us what the hell is going on with the Star Trek sequel. Apart from the “sometime infuriating, often hilarious” and mostly “pretty darned fascinating conversation” (to quote Jack, apart from the use of the word “always”, can’t better his description), this is why I am here – to find out about the proposed film sequel.

Still got my fingers firmly crossed for a much awaited and cool announcement come 8 September as a way of celebrating the 45 years since the first Star Trek was screened on US television. It is more than likely that Anthony will be there to record it all, no matter what…Now, is this not what we all really, truly want?

421. Jack - September 4, 2011

421. ;)

422. Jack - September 4, 2011

I shouldn’t be spreading rumors — check out the thread on the science story. It’s actually just one rumor, from a regular poster, and, as it turns out, it was heard on a blog somewhere. Could be true, could be false. No confirmation yet. I got a little carried away.

423. Mark Lynch - September 5, 2011

You know it’s just not worth wasting time on this dead thing called Star Trek anymore.
If it’s going to be 3 or 4 years between films and a lot of wishy washy excuses inbetween as to why things are not moving ahead. Let’s just let it die as a movie entity and bring it back to where it shines best. Television.

As an aside, I saw Cowboys and Aliens last night. It was a good film. Well done guys.

424. NCM - September 5, 2011

In my circle, far more people share my love for cowboys and aliens than I’d ever suspected. At a party, the subject came up and almost everyone, most enthusiastically the guys, but even a retired female friend, joined the conversation: “Cowboys and aliens! Why not?! Why has it taken so long…?”; ‘Cowboys and aliens makes perfect sense!'; ‘If there are aliens, why wouldn’t they have visited in the time of cowboys?’

The idea was great! I saw the film with five other enthusiasts (a couple more panned it, based on reviews). Leaving the theater, we all agreed it fell far short of potential. I can’t recall anything of interest in the story part of the film that wasn’t clear from previews. There were lots of cool scenes, but the film moved, scene to scene, as if we were looking at sequential, well drawn story boards; fun to look at, but did nothing to draw us in. It often dragged. It wasn’t awful; it just had so much more potential than what it delivered.

Though I loved Trek 2009 and don’t regret seeing Cowboys, I hope the creative team, in future, won’t allow themselves sloppy indulgences that move enthusiastic viewers into the critic’s chair: You know, the avoidable indulgences that make you say, ‘they’ve shown far more people dying and this battle’s gone on far too long given the numbers of cowboys going into it…” Or, ‘how long did it take them to get to Vulcan?’ ‘Did Vulcan offer nothing in its own defense?’

425. boborci - September 5, 2011

We do t know how long it took to get to Vulcan. Remember, Kirk was oug, and when he awoke, Bones had changed clothes, giving clue that trip was not in real time.

426. boborci - September 5, 2011


Dont know

Kirk was out

427. boborci - September 5, 2011

As for Vulcan defenses, I could say that they are a Federation member and thus subject to protection by the very fleet that was sent to help, but the truth is the budget would not allow us even one more blinking light.

Not sure “sloppy” is a fair word to use.

428. E3Quidd - September 5, 2011

Wow getting thru these comments was like trying to purge the Gamma quadrant! Love Trek commentary some of the most intelligent in the industry of commentary. But too long winded. Sorry fellow Trekkers. The movie was awesome, and the few second spots that I loved the best all had to do with Spock. I LOVED Young Spock. The kid was pure dynamite. And Mr Quinto did a smash bang job as Spock. Totally Brilliant and they did do an awesome job of the casting between old new and child. That child actor was sooo great! However long, it has always been worth the wait. Trekker since 1968!!
Trek Lives !!!

429. dmduncan - September 5, 2011

Yeah, I really enjoyed C&A for the comic book movie it was, so I don’t know what potential it squandered. That the man from Krypton can break totally free from the bounds of gravity on earth, at will, because the gravity of his homeworld was stronger makes no sense, but you accept it, and that sort of thinking sets the tone of Superman, which is never going to have the verisimilitude of something serious like Blackhawk Down. So whatever potential C&A failed to realize, it certainly wasn’t in the direction of lacking more seriousness which would have been impossible to achieve given the tone of the movie.

And I thought it had better than average character development for this type of movie, particularly for Dollarhyde.

And that is also where Nolan lost me for Batman Begins. Even given the bungie cord, that Batman could just pop down magically on the docks to dispatch his enemies seemed so unbelievable and at odds with the tone he had established early on for Batman as being a believable real character in a believable real world.

The same was true for Harvey Dent with half his face missing and him not seeming to be in much agony. Pick a tone and stick with it, I say. You hazard the absurd when you vacillate wildly between extremes.

430. dmduncan - September 5, 2011

And I’ve grown tired of Christian Bale’s raspy voiced interpretation. An image of Jon Lovitz from SNL pops into my head. “ACTing!” he says.

431. Harry Ballz - September 5, 2011

429. dmduncan “You hazard the absurd when you vacillate wildly between extremes”

And some of us embrace it as a lifestyle! :>)

432. Harry Ballz - September 5, 2011

430. dmduncan “I’ve grown tired of Christian Bale’s raspy voiced interpretation”

Yeah, you’re right. Why not go back to the style of the 1960’s Batman TV show, where Bruce Wayne would be talking in his deep baritone voice to Commissioner Gordon, walk out the door, only to walk back in 5 minutes later as Batman and continue to talk to the Commissioner in the EXACT same voice.

That could work!

433. AJ - September 5, 2011


Aww, C’mon, Harry. The Dick Donner Supermans + 2, and Bryan Singer’s tribute all had Clark and Supes using the same voice. Clark would just say “Golly” and “Swell” more often.

Maybe Christian Bale can swear like a spoiled pansy as Batman like he did on the set of T4.

434. dmduncan - September 5, 2011

433. Harry Ballz – September 5, 2011

The 1960’s Batman wasn’t trying to be anything BUT absurd. It was actually more consistent than Nolan’s versions with respect to its attitude toward itself.

Plus, Michael Keaton managed to do it just fine, so there are more examples than just Adam West.

435. dmduncan - September 5, 2011

I think the best way to mask Batman is through his attitude, not by changing his voice. If Bruce Wayne is this happy playboy and Batman is this brooding angry masked figure, then even of their voices are similar their radically different attitudes make them seem very different people. And that’s the thing about Batman, isn’t it? He’s these two different people. And that’s better expressed through one’s choice of words than the tone of one’s voice, at least in the way that Bale did it under Nolan’s direction.

Of course if it is as distinctive as Adam West’s, that wouldn’t work. But if your voice is NOT one of the most memorable features about you, then it could work.

If all else fails, you could give him an electronic voice box so he sounds like Lil Wayne.

436. dmduncan - September 5, 2011

434. AJ – September 5, 2011

lol! Yes. Or with an electronic voicebox he could sound like anyone, including Bear Grylls, who’s at least twice as nuts as Batman and Christian Bale combined.

He could even sound like Rosie Perez, which would stun enemies long enough for him to get the knockout punch.

437. N - September 5, 2011

Zachary Quinto is probably the best actor to play gay characters

438. Andy Patterson - September 5, 2011


“The 1960’s Batman wasn’t trying to be anything BUT absurd. It was actually more consistent than Nolan’s versions with respect to its attitude toward itself.”

You know, I took Adam West and his Batman portrayal so seriously. It never really occurred to me when I was a kid that it was ‘camp’. I made a big drag of myself, and became a downer to a whole room full of press, interviewing him for a children’s show a few years ago. He wanted to goof and kid a bit and was totally at ease making fun of himself. I was maybe a little overly reverential to him. I see the silliness and humor in the show now but man, his Batman and Bruce Wayne had presence! And he was very heroic. My oldest son is named after him in part. On a side note….now my little Adam is all into The Six Million Dollar Man. Wonder what that all means in the greater scheme of things.

439. Dee - lvs moon' surface - September 5, 2011

#427 – boborci…

Mr. Bob Orci I know …it’s not possible an answer about Trek sequel …

but there’s something new about “Welcome to People”? …

Mr. Kurtzman said to Collider:

“When are people going to see the first images or trailer for Welcome to People? When is it going to be released?

Kurtzman: It’s a different kind of movie in that it’s a family drama/comedy. I don’t think there is going to be an image like in Cowboys & Aliens where everyone is like, “What is the alien going to look like? How is Harrison going to look like? How is the alien going to look like in his chaps?” It’s not that kind of movie. I’m in the process of figuring that out with the studio. I’m literally a month away from finishing post.”

Let me say that I’m curious to see official images of the film and I know that many people are also…

Photos of Chris Pine in the red convertible made ​​by the paps are in many places on the Internet, by the way!

I can’t wait to see the movie …

And the alien does not look like shirtless Kirk, definitely not … LOL

:-) :-)

440. boborci - September 5, 2011

439. Thanks. Surely, we will have images soon. Thanks for your interest!

441. Harry Ballz - September 5, 2011

Thanks, Bob! And don’t call me Shirley!

442. NCM - September 6, 2011

Mr. Orci, sorry for the term. I can’t fathom the challenges in film making; but in writing, you can achieve whatever you wish, with frugality, and never have to settle for less. A statement from any character indicating ‘Vulcan’s fleet [had] been lost’ would have sufficed – we Trekkies want to believe.

I had a prof. who gave a three page paper assignment. When students returned with papers, he told us to edit them down to one page, sacrifice no meaningful content, and submit papers in which each word was a necessity. It had seemed an impossible task, but it was among the most valuable experiences I’ve had.

Given film making costs and budgets, writers might do especially well to commit to meaningful content and excise unnecessary lines, scenes, as needed, to avoid having to forsake important details.

I wish you the best in making the next film, and am grateful for your work. I’ll see it in theaters, repeatedly, and will purchase the book and copies of the dvd to hand out as gifts; once again, doing my small part to support the franchise.

443. Paul B. - September 6, 2011

425 – Mr. Orci, That’s a fair point…but it smacks of fanboy fixin’ after the fact, methinks. Watching the film, we see Chekov giving the report to the ship. As that report plays out (seemingly in real time), we see Kirk wake up and react.

It might be your intent that an undisclosed amount of time has passed, but to the viewer it appears that Kirk wakes up as Chekov finishes the “live” report, then runs it back to check what Chekov said. Maybe this is an editing issue, not writing, but the sequence makes it seem that only a couple of minutes have passed.

These “little” things (and stuff like having Spock Prime watching Vulcan die from the far-too-near Delta Vega) really detract from an amazingly entertaining film that won over THIS 40-year-old fan the first time I saw it. These little things are what someone earlier called “sloppy,” and I think that’s EXACTLY the right word.

BTW, as someone who whined about the Kirk/Uhura bar scene when it was first previewed, I want to tell you that I WAS WRONG–it was a great sequence, and I loved every minute of the bar scene! Keep it up, and thanks for the time you give us fans!

444. Dee - lvs moon' surface - September 6, 2011

#440 – boborci ….Thank you! ….I’ll be waiting!

#441- Harry Ballz ………………LOL … I’m not Shirley, definitely……….+LOL

:-) :-)

445. dmduncan - September 6, 2011

444: “It might be your intent that an undisclosed amount of time has passed, but to the viewer it appears that Kirk wakes up as Chekov finishes the “live” report, then runs it back to check what Chekov said. Maybe this is an editing issue, not writing, but the sequence makes it seem that only a couple of minutes have passed.”

There’s also a director involved and he might choose a cut instead of a wipe or a dissolve. In fact, does JJ ever dissolve to anything? And if he had used a wipe I’m sure people would have said they were copying Star Wars, as if George Lucas invented the wipe.

446. Harry Ballz - September 6, 2011


dmduncan, is that a swipe at a Star Wars wipe? If not, please forgive my gripe!

447. boborci - September 6, 2011

443 The word “sloppy” implies that we were unaware of your potential criticism and just made decisions without realizing what we were doing. Bones shirt change is not a continuity error or a trick in editing. It was a choice. Same with perceiving Vulcan. You may not agree with the choices, but they were conscious choices with your potential objections firmly in mind.

448. dmduncan - September 6, 2011

447. Harry Ballz – September 6, 2011

I’m not the type to spread such tripe about George Lucas’ version, I call the “fuzzy” wipe.

Had JJ wanted it used, and the CUT TO less abused, some might also feel less confused.

449. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 6, 2011

#448(?) – boborci

Can’t wait for the first pictures for Welcome to People, Bob and Alex! I am really looking forward to seeing the movie. As well as loving Star Trek, I am also really like family drama/comedy style movies. Any release date yet for the US (and little wee NZ down here as well)?

I did not see a problem with continuity. Bones changed clothes twice – once out of his grimy civies (gee, Kirk with his blood-stained tee shirt and McCoy with well…his hobo getup made a fine pair – truly Starfleet’s finest…:)). The second time was when he went aboard the Enterprise. He changed into the correct uniform for a Science or Medical Officer. Kirk was not assigned anywhere, so he got to wear the default black pants and jersey with SF logo.
I agree that there could have been some indication of how long Kirk had been out of it – say like 30 mins, an hour, two hours, whatever – that sort of thing. That would have given the audience a better sense of the timing of everything. It was an omission of a small fact that needed to be there in the story. Not a major deal though.

450. Paul B. - September 6, 2011

447 – Fair enough! I’ll drop “sloppy” and replace it with “questionable choices.” ;P

Seriously, though, after how much fun the first movie was, I just hope you folks keep doing what you did then. You did the unthinkable–brought the original characters back to life with new people–and it wouldn’t be Trek without all these details for fans to quibble over.

Now, get back to writing before these rabid hordes try to track you down and make you write what they want! Run, Orci, run!

451. Harry Ballz - September 6, 2011


well, THANK YOU, Dr. Seuss! :>)

p.s. dmduncan, it’s always a pleasure to chat with a fellow WORDMEISTER like yourself!

452. Pauln6 - September 6, 2011

I think that, as with most movies, what the team would have preferred to convey and what actually ends up in the final cut may be quite different and avoiding too much technobabble is preferable. There’s no harm in just shrugging and taking criticism on board for the sequel. Or just pull a Geroge Lucas and re-edit the thing in 20 years’ time for the latest format (let’s say 3D psychic projection).

I enjoyed the movie immensely but with hindsight there are small tweaks I would have made to it to adjust some of things that look very silly. The brewery was a budgetary issue – as someone who spent his childhood watching Dr Who and Blakes 7 running up and down cardboard corridors, I can live with that. I would have left Chekov out and included Rand instead. I understand exactly why they didn’t but fans would understand why Chekov isn’t there (basically he should be too young) and non-fans would just ask, Chekov who? At least we would have had another woman. I would have beamed Kirk to the brig at Scotty’s outpost with a security escort (Rand) and placed Spock Prime at the base already to avoid the outrageous contrivance of meeting in a random cave. I would have sent Kirk out into the snow to set up some equipment for the warp transport and let the monster scene play out in a similar way. I would certainly not have left enough time for the Enterprise to get so far away as I’m a firm believer in placing limitations on transporter tech and massively extending the range opens a Pandora’s box. I would have beamed a proper strike team onto the Narada including McCoy and Uhura as well (but then I am more of a fan of an ensemble cast). I would have had Nero destroy himself at the end when his own weapons fire is sucked back into the singularity. I would have showed Kirk getting some medals but move the final scene on a couple of years as he is finally given command of the Enterprise when he has actually earned it. I don’t doubt that thousands of nitpickers could find fault with those ideas but the overall movie would have been the same and it would have hung together a little better for me.

453. Harry Ballz - September 6, 2011

Paul, you make some excellent points.

454. dmduncan - September 6, 2011

I think any creative person with the interest and the will to imagine it would come up with something different than what Bob did, and that is not a knock against what Bob did, it’s just a reflection of the fact that we all want to see our own vision of Star Trek on the big screen. I personally enjoy seeing other people’s visions of Star Trek.

And I loved the whole Delta Vega scene. It’s one of my favorite parts of the movie, and I wouldn’t change a thing about it.

455. dmduncan - September 6, 2011

You know, Star Trek is supposed to capture the size and mystery of the universe, and where is that when everything is explainable in terms of an early 21st century mindset and understanding of science???

When Gene Coon created the Organians he didn’t limit his imagination to what was possible in the 1960’s. And good thing he didn’t or else the universe of Star Trek wouldn’t be as wondrous.

How can these powerful beings made of pure energy exist? Somehow. If we could understand it they wouldn’t inspire awe.

I want Star Trek to keep that in its blood.

456. NCM - September 6, 2011

Paul @ 450: I agree, ‘cept I think you meant, ‘Write, Orci, Write!’

We’re all here because Mr. Orci and the rest did something really big and we want more. Despite criticisms, the scale, by every measure (success, recognition, appreciation, earnings…), tilts decisively in the Court’s favor.

I thought the casting was phenomenal, and the choices in character development exceptional (with few, minor exceptions).

Thanks, Mr. Orci. Thanks!

457. Michael Hall - September 6, 2011

#452 Pauln6–

FWIW, definitely would have preferred your version of Trek 2009.

458. Samuel Clemens - September 6, 2011


Star Trek’s audience is here in the 21st century, not in the future. I’m afraid our primitive notions of story continuity and logic, and the outrageous intolerance some of us have for plot contrivances are still very much alive.

Perhaps one day we will evolve to the point where story no longer matters and movies are made of nothing but one-liners and shiny animated things. Indeed, the success of the Transformers films may be our “Darwin moment,” moving towards this brighter, shinier future.

459. boborci - September 6, 2011

457. Lol!

460. dmduncan - September 6, 2011

459. Samuel Clemens – September 6, 2011

Oh yummy sarcasm. Well, if outrageous coincidences happen in real life they should be less surprising in a movie except perhaps to those who take their movies more seriously than life. The fact that people complain about the so called cave “contrivance” only shows how puritanical some people are about their “science” and how ignorant they are about their world.

I’m sure the 1884 Richard Parker was set up by his fellow sailors after they all had read the 1838 tale by Edgar Allen Poe and hatched a plan to “make it so.”

I’m still wondering what happened to that little dinosaur toy I lost as a kid. Think I’ll have Paul Campfield’s accidental luck finding it again?

But in the Star Trek universe we should just pretend that no such things ever happen. It’s a fantasy land where the only things that happen are the things that Mr. Spock can explain. It should be that way just so 21st century fans can have their simplistic philosophy of the world reinforced by their favorite TV show gone big screen.

461. Samuel Clemens - September 6, 2011


I think you’ve got that backwards. Arranging for three primary characters to meet on the same off-the-beaten-path planet just to move the story along is simplistic. Well, convenient would be a better word. Anyway, I’m not saying amazing coincedences don’t happen in the real world; they just seem to happen in movies much more often, or are all those just coincedences? ;)

The new Trek movie was a fun ride and all, but I wouldn’t say the script was the strongest element. Reminded me of the old saying—-

“Your manuscript is both good and original, but the part that is good is not original and the part that is original is not good.”

462. Harry Ballz - September 6, 2011

Samuel, do you suspect dmduncan’s response to you was mere coincidence?

I think not!

463. Samuel Clemens - September 6, 2011


No, I don’t think so either. Then again, I didn’t suspect so in the first place… since I was the one who contacted him in the first place.

Call and response. Ya dig?

464. Harry Ballz - September 7, 2011

Uh, Samuel, as Mr. Orci likes to say, “I keed, I keed!”. Ya dig?

Are you still waiting for that “sense of humour” transplant?

465. Samuel Clemens - September 7, 2011


Sorry, it was difficult to catch without hearing the tone of your comment, but yes, it was most amusing. *giggle*giggle*//insert emotion*

466. Jack - September 7, 2011

456. …and then the organians were dropped entirely.

467. Harry Ballz - September 7, 2011


Hey! I never knew Samuel Clemens was a Vulcan! Pon Farr Out!

468. Samuel Clemens - September 7, 2011


Yes, and I’m still disappointed the publisher rejected my original title “Spockleberry Finn.”

469. Harry Ballz - September 7, 2011

And didn’t your other great book have the working title “Pon Sawyer”?

470. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - September 7, 2011

425. boborci – September 5, 2011
We do t know how long it took to get to Vulcan. Remember, Kirk was oug, and when he awoke, Bones had changed clothes, giving clue that trip was not in real time

It did feel like real time after the second or third time i watched the movie i noticed bones changed.

471. dmduncan - September 7, 2011

462: “Anyway, I’m not saying amazing coincedences don’t happen in the real world; they just seem to happen in movies much more often, or are all those just coincedences? ;)”

Sure. Because they’re movies. When you get right down to it, every movie story is a contrivance otherwise we’d stay home because they would be as ordinary as our everyday experience is. We actually go to movies like Star Trek to see extraordinary things happen.

I don’t think I want to see a movie about a month in the life of Sean when he’s not trying to salvage his relationship with his bored girlfriend while fighting zombies.

When I was a kid I picked up the phone to call a friend of mine and he was already on the other end! The phone didn’t ring on my end. We were both confused about how that happened. What “must” have happened was that we each independently decided to call the other at roughly the same time. He probably dialed my number and then, before it rang, I picked up the phone to call him, and he was already there.

I’ve made a lot of phone calls since then but that has never happened to me again. I imagine it doesn’t happen too often to anybody.

Those sorts of things tend to make me not gripe about the cave scene in ST.09. I thought it was wonderful.

472. dmduncan - September 7, 2011

467. Jack – September 7, 2011

456. …and then the organians were dropped entirely.


Well except for Harry Mudd, the Klingons, and the Romulans, and maybe a few more, EVERYthing in TOS was viewed in passing. But we did get several iterations of the godlike being out of TOS — Trelane, and the Metrons from Arena — and then the Q out of TNG, so the idea stuck.

473. Harry Ballz - September 7, 2011



I know what you mean. Back in the mid-90’s I went to Greece (from Toronto) for two weeks with my girlfriend. The first night we arrived in Athens (poulation 12 million), we decide to go out for dinner to a district recommended to us. The cab ride is way acroos the other end of the city. The cab pulls up in front of a popular restaurant, we disembark, and on a whim I point to the restaurant next to the one we’re heading for and suggest, “let’s try that one instead”. We walk in and ask the maitre de for a nice seat on the huge outdoor patio out back. He smiles and starts leading us through this huge throng of tables to the back section of the patio. He tries to seat us at a nice table for two, but, lo and behold, who is sitting at the very next table (inches away), but a businesswoman I’ve HATED for years in my profession. I mean really despise. I turn to the maitre de and hiss, “get us as far away from this table as possible!” The woman had spotted me and started to wave and say hello, but I completely ignored her. Almost ruined my first night in Greece.

Some coincidences are nasty!

474. Cygnus-X1 - September 7, 2011

452. Pauln6 – September 6, 2011

You make a good point here:

—-I would have beamed Kirk to the brig at Scotty’s outpost with a security escort (Rand) and placed Spock Prime at the base already to avoid the outrageous contrivance of meeting in a random cave.—-

But then, having eliminated the scene where Kirk gets chased by two monsters for no particular reason other than to get him into the cave with Spock Prime, you bring it back:

—-I would have sent Kirk out into the snow to set up some equipment for the warp transport and let the monster scene play out in a similar way.—-

Having cleverly gotten rid of the monster-chase seen, why would you bring it back, this time without even the need to chase Kirk into a particular location as a plot device? Don’t you think there’s enough action in the movie without the need for a scene wherein Kirk is chased by two monsters? Couldn’t the time spent on the monster-chase scene have been better spent on…say… dialogue and more meaningfully developing the various themes and events in a movie wherein people barely ever stop running around as it is, thus increasing the audience’s investment in the outcomes of the film’s many action scenes?

475. dmduncan - September 7, 2011

474. Harry Ballz – September 7, 2011

Yeah, see? That’s amazing!

476. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 7, 2011

Kirk could have been chased by the woolly monster, if you had to have a chase. At least that one had some kind of biological credibility. Or he could have finally made it to the outpost, utterly exhausted and nearly out of rations. He could have been met by prime Spock at the base with a surprised welcome – “James T Kirk – my old friend! First meeting Montgomery Scott and now, you, my dear old friend, here, on the same day. Fascinating!” he says, as he tries to compute the incredible odds…

Anyway, on to something more current (and no doubt to brass some of you guys off) – today (US time) is 7 September and on this date in 1973 was born one Alex Kurtzman!

Happy Birthday to Alex Kurtzman! May you have many, many more and may this new year be a very successful and fulfilling year for you. Many happy returns!

477. N - September 7, 2011

today is 7 September and on this date in 1991 was born one me

478. Harry Ballz - September 7, 2011


you’re 20 today???

I own ties older than THAT!

Happy birthday!

479. Pauln6 - September 7, 2011

Keachick – I was only proposing tweaks to the movie. I personally could live without the CGI beasties but a lot of others liked them. My main concern was removing the need for Kirk to trek miles because the Enterprise gets further away for every hour he spends out in the snow. If the Enterprise is closer we aren’t modifying the (TOS) transporters to such heady new heights. I can live with a warp transport as a one-off, but increasing range from 100,000 km ish to roughly a light year was too much for me. Having Spock on the base already working with Scotty hoping to find a way to track and/or transport onto the Narada also makes him less passive and relieves them of time needed to modify the transporter. If you really want some further foreshadowing, Rand has to choose between Spock’s orders or Kirk’s awesomeness plus she gets to stay behind to work the transporters, foreshadowing a possible role as transporter chief as seen in TMP.

480. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 7, 2011

#480 – “My main concern was removing the need for Kirk to trek miles because the Enterprise gets further away for every hour he spends out in the snow. If the Enterprise is closer we aren’t modifying the (TOS) transporters to such heady new heights. I can live with a warp transport as a one-off, but increasing range from 100,000 km ish to roughly a light year was too much for me.”

I agree. I don’t know how long it would have taken Kirk to walk 14kms in that kind of terrain, even though he would have been pretty fit.

The other gripe some people have (on other boards) is how come Scotty did not know about the destruction of Vulcan or the fact that two humanoids were trekking across the planets. What happened to the space station’s sensors and communications? My assumption is that was one of the reasons why Scotty was too pissed off, because a) he had had nothing decent to eat in a while, and was nearly out of food rations and b) supplies like parts for communications and sensors had not come, so that he could replace the old non-working parts with new working ones – hence he was unable to detect the presence of Kirk or prime Spock and the fate of Vulcan.

If anyone had been truly marooned, it was Scotty. Lucky for Scotty that Kirk and Spock turned up when they did…

481. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 7, 2011

Happy Birthday, N!

482. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - September 7, 2011

Wow, this thread is still going? Mr. Pascale, get back here and give us some more topics to discuss!

Happy Birthday, N! Hey, we’re just a couple weeks apart, too!

483. Pauln6 - September 8, 2011

I think it’s debatable that the finest engineer in the fleet would not somehow make sure that his essential equipment like sensors and communications were working in either his main control room OR his shuttle. The bigger issues are that he made no attempt to contact Earth AFTER discovering the situation and was unaware that a lifepod with an emergency signal had landed on the planet. What kind of equipment isn’t set up to detect emergency signals? He should have beamed Kirk off the icefields.

484. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 8, 2011

Scotty wasn’t, at this point in the film, the finest engineer in the fleet. He was posted to this grotty little outpost as a disciplinary measure in the alternate universe. Only by the time Scotty has completed the five year mission in the prime universe aboard the Enterprise under Captain Kirk’s command does he start to earn the title of possibly being one of the finest engineers in the fleet. Also discovering the formula for transwarp beaming and making it work would have earned him considerable recognition, but that didn’t happen until much later.

If something essential is not working, then how do you use it to get help, if it will not work, despite your efforts to get it to work. Sometimes when something is broken, it cannot be fixed. Maybe his essential equipment was working, but then something went wrong and the expected arrival of supplies did not happen. If the equipment like sensors are not working, then he would not have been able to detect the presence of a lifepod… Anyway, this is my apologist theory.

Bob Orci – what say you?

OK – It is 8 September. I am really awaiting that JJ Abrams’ announcement now…

485. N - September 8, 2011

Thank you guys :)

486. your mother - September 8, 2011

Mr. Quinto could be saying this only because he needed such a long time to practice in order to get Spock right this time.

487. Pauln6 - September 8, 2011

I think the problem I have with your explanation Keachick is that it requires the sensors AND communicators on BOTH the outpost AND the shuttle (including hand held communicators which one would hope are designed to register an emergency signal on a planet as hostile as this) to be out of action or ignored for as long as it takes Kirk and Spock to walk to the outpost, which must be at least 6 hours if we assume 14km as the crow (or Alderbaran dingbat) flies takes a lot longer through snow, across rough terrain, and allowing for a period of time to sit around the fire and chat with Spock Prime. I quickly checked Oates trek across Antarctica where they travelled 14km per day to put it into perspective. I realise that’s being VERY pedantic but my overall goal is just to limit the distance that transporters can work to avoid silly scenarios where villains can beam photon torpedoes from a light year away.

488. Pauln6 - September 8, 2011

Oh, and of course the sensors must be functional because Scotty is able to scan a ship a light year away with sufficiently accuracy to send a transporter signal – how could I have forgotten that!

489. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 8, 2011

Actually, I agree with you Pauln6. I did say I was using a (not very good) apologist excuse for why Scotty did not know or appear to react to anything going on.

I’m not sure about including Rand, although a thought did occur to me that they could have had Scotty and Rand together on the outpost (maybe they were a couple – or not), instead of Keenser. Prime Spock could have already made it to the outpost and used his expertise to get whatever may not have been functioning working again, including a sensor perhaps. It would have then detected Kirk’s presence on the planet and they could have beamed him directly onto the space station, thus saving Kirk and Spock valuable time and have Kirk avoid being chased by hungry monsters in the snow and ice.

For dramatic purposes, of course, they could have had Kirk almost being devoured by that furry thing, just as Spock beams him away. That could be the first instance of us knowing of there possibly being somebody else on the planet…

490. Pauln6 - September 8, 2011

Ooh yeah – that could have worked too – I hadn’t thought of that option. Nice one.

491. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - September 8, 2011

I believe this is still realavant 5 years later i love the music, enjoy and happy birthday star trek

492. Admiral Amy - September 8, 2011

Okay. I know it is a long wait, but considering who the writers are, I think it will be worth it. I mean come on, I am a HUGE Trek fan, I get antsy when I can’t find my damn tv remote in time for the start of the re-runs.

Just remember, the actors may have contracts to do other films, the writers may be working on other films too. Alex has written the Transformers films too. He is a busy, busy boy. PLUS they need to make the next Star Trek better than the first. Rumor around here is that there are a few surprises in store. Who knows what that could mean?

A trip through a warp hole? Romulus attacks? Massive Klingon Prison escape? Just think. If the first was good, the second could cause heart failure.

493. Brett Campbell - September 9, 2011

No article on the 45th anniversary. Disappointing.

494. Harry Ballz - September 9, 2011

The best way to gauge how long it’s been since a new thread’s been posted on this site?

When a thread regarding Zachary Quinto garners nearly 500 posts!

That would NEVER happen normally.

495. Brett Campbell - September 9, 2011

Too true, Harry.

And not a word on the 45th anniversary. Pretty sad.

496. Harry Ballz - September 9, 2011

Well, Brett, at least we have our regular friends here!

(starts to sing) “People…….people who need people…..”

(sob, gush)

497. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - September 9, 2011

agreed i feel like crying that this site is dead, and there is no rhyme or reason. no post from the editor and cheif

498. dmduncan - September 9, 2011

497. Harry Ballz – September 9, 201

Harry! What ever became of your JFK script? Of course, feel free not to answer if you feel that would be more appropriate!

499. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 9, 2011

Where is the staff? Surely one of those people could give an explanation of what has happened to Anthony.

I think it’s the timing as well here that bothers me, given that an announcement about the sequel was supposed to be coming this month. September is not over yet, of course…

Anyway, as mentioned on another thread, Chris Pine is now clean shaven, if that means anything. Who knows? Captain Kirk, in the prime universe at least, was ALWAYS clean shaven…

Perhaps giving a short answer to the JFK script, Harry, may bring Bob Orci out, or not?

500. NCM - September 9, 2011

I don’t think Anthony’s AWOL, having only left on a light for us, but an appearance to reassure the collective of its future would be nice.

This site’s been great, and I suspect it will remain so as news comes in – It’ll come, even if from other sources and if not what we hope to hear.

Optimistic and appreciative as I am regarding this site, we’d obviously miss the connections should the lights fail; but there are other (even if less breaking-news-poised) Trek blogs, no? I’m fairly new to the blog-a-sphere and I hope the question won’t result in my disappearance, but… suggestions for (worst case scenario, only) plan B?

501. Harry Ballz - September 9, 2011

498. dmduncan “What ever became of your JFK script?”

Not at all, I appreciate you remembering, dmduncan. As you may recall, I gave the script to Bob Orci some months back (at his request!!). I was thrilled that he wanted to take a look at it. The trouble is, he’s so friggin’ busy, I don’t think he’s had a moment to look at it. The only part I find encouraging is that it would only take him two seconds to e-mail me with “sorry, not interested”, but that hasn’t happened. Maybe one of these days I’ll hear back.

Thanks for asking!

502. Harry Ballz - September 9, 2011


Maybe, Keachick…………here, fishee, fishee………………………….:>)

503. dmduncan - September 9, 2011

502. Harry Ballz – September 9, 2011

I don’t know if it’s still on, but there was a cool documentary on Netflix called Tales From The Script. Interviews with screenwriters and their experience with how Hollywood works. Fascinating and funny. But if screenwriting is the way you see yourself getting involved with movie making, could also be quite discouraging since many screenplays that get bought still stand a good chance of never being made!

Go Indy, man! Make it yourself!

I just lost my marbles and bought some film equipment with the aim of shooting film again. Super 16, because The Hurt Locker sold me on the format; it looked great blown up to 1.85:1 in the theater, and video just doesn’t inspire me. I love the medium of film.

504. MJ - September 10, 2011

@372 “PS. I hope I’m not the other guy you don’t talk to on these boards…”

Nope, you I respect for both content and class, Jack, even though we don’t always agree on stuff.

PS: Sorry for the tardy response, but I was out of town for a few days.

505. Andy Patterson - September 10, 2011

@ 501

So Harry,

As lame as it may sound to some, I’ve had an idea for a screen play for years about the world of public school told through the standpoint of a band director. Throughout the years I’ve made a mental note of people and and experiences that I’ve encountered through my years teaching. I’ve got characters, I’ve got whole scenes taken from personal experiences, I’ve got my opening scene of the movie even. I’ve actually stopped in the moment during my teaching career and said to myself, “I’ve got to add that to my movie about all this.” And I said that to myself years before I even really knew I had that concept in mind. I just knew however, that it must be done. It’d do for the school system what MASH did for…what ever it did.

We’ve got lawyer shows, cop shows, doctor shows…nothing’s really been done about the schools in a way I think could be told. I’m not talking Room 222 (let’s find somebody who knows that reference on here)….this would be pretty revealing, insulting at times and controversial.

So, what’s your advice Harry? What avenue should I pursue so that I can join that fray of everyone else who says, “Hey, I’ve got an idea for a screen play”?

506. dmduncan - September 10, 2011

506: “So, what’s your advice Harry? What avenue should I pursue so that I can join that fray of everyone else who says, ‘Hey, I’ve got an idea for a screen play’?”

Pardon me, Andy, I couldn’t help but overhear, but it sounds like you’re already in that fray.

Now join the other fray,
The fray of those who say
“Hey, I’ve got a screenplay!”

In other words: Lock yourself in the house and don’t come out till your tan is gone and you look like Boo Radley with a script in his hands.

507. Harry Ballz - September 10, 2011


Andy, an idea is fine, but the blunt truth is, you need to have a finished sceenplay in hand. Go to a theatre bookstore and ask for the 3 best books they have on screenplay writing. One I enjoyed was Save The Cat by Blake Snyder. Syd Field has written some good ones, too.Then, following those guidelines, put bum in seat and crank out a brilliant 120 page classic. Polish and repolish it until you’re sick of looking at it. Make it the very best. Then hand it over to 3 best friends you trust for opinion, asking them for brutally honest feedback. Weeks later when you have that feedback, remove your ego from the equation, embrace the best of their critiques, and go back hammering your script with one final revision like your life depended on it. The writing is in the rewriting. As soon as you feel it’s finally finished, fire off a few dozen query letters to literary agents (a draft of said letter should be provided in some of those screenwriting books). Follow up with phone calls to the recipients and push like hell.

It’s hard enough to get someone to look at a finished script, let alone saying to them, “I’ve got an idea for a screenplay”. Every cab driver and waiter in Los Angeles makes that same remark. Very few of them finish the damn thing.
Whether you ever sell the screenplay, you will be THRILLED with yourself for just finishing it. Good luck!

508. dmduncan - September 10, 2011

So true. Quality is not going to come cheap, and cheap also means “without effort.” And it really is a life lesson to finish something like that. I wrote a 200 page screenplay when I was 16. Literally stayed up all night on Fridays and Saturdays with lots of black coffee. Never even showed it to anybody. But the feeling I got from FINISHING it was such a boost to my confidence that I never forgot the lesson and it has served me well over the years, and that ended up being the most valuable part of the experience to me. The experience of getting to “know thyself.”

509. Andy Patterson - September 10, 2011

Thanks to all for the advice. Sounds similar to finishing a musical composition. Much pain, revision and just plain labor. And like labor, you’re finally glad to get the damn thing out,

510. Andy Patterson - September 10, 2011

You basically told me what I already knew about writing a piece of music. Mancini, in his book on arranging and scoring, said you can’t be too attached to your ‘babies’ . You must be willing to cut and rework.

And Harry,….you’re not a wine drinker are you? Because I shall have a glass of Chilean wine in your honor. You too Mr. Duncan. Who am I kidding? I was going to have it anyway. But now I have a reason to toast.

511. HARP3R - September 10, 2011

Why wait? I don’t want to die and not see the Star Trek Sequel!!!

512. Harry Ballz - September 10, 2011


Am I a wine drinker?? Are you kidding?? Does Spock beam up? Do flies fly?

That’s all I DO drink!

Ever try a lovely Pinot Grigio called Santa Margharita?

Serve it cold, nectar of the gods!

513. MJ - September 10, 2011

I guess I would be concerned Harry if you reported drinking a nice chianti with a dinner of liver and fava beans.

514. Harry Ballz - September 10, 2011

(making a sucking sound through my teeth)

phuh, phuh, phuh, phuh, phuh………

I must go now…..I’m having a friend for dinner!

515. Andy Patterson - September 11, 2011


Excellent. Silly me. I should have known.

May try your selection suggestion.

516. Harry Ballz - September 11, 2011


Apparently it is the most popular pinot grigio in the world, although I probably account for having influenced those sales numbers. Andy, I am confident that you will enjoy it.

517. aaronite_1 - September 11, 2011

I can’t get enough of the new Trek universe, I say they film 2 and 3 back to back! :-)

Seriously though, the first movie was famously in the can in late 2008, so it’s almost a 5 year gap for the actors!

518. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 11, 2011

Probably more like a four year gap for the actors…

519. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - September 12, 2011

Reisling for me.

520. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - September 12, 2011

Hey does anyone know if anthony has facebook or twiter so we can figure out where the hell he is…

521. Keachick (rose pinenut) - September 12, 2011

I believe Anthony does have Facebook. He said so, but he does not use it that often.

522. Brock - September 12, 2011

Eh, Star Trek’s home ground is on TV. Its hard to get excited about a 2 hour movie every 4 years.

523. NCM - September 12, 2011

@522: Guess if I had to choose, I’d take TV Trek over the four year movie deal, but I found Trek 2009 very exciting. It absolutely rebooted my long dormant Trek interest.

Also, given all the channels and shows on the tube, it may have been more difficult to engage enough young people to actually reboot the franchise. Of course, if it takes four or more years between films, any captivation of the young may be unsustainable.

It is beginning to feel like the lights are dimming on this site. Have the editors been silent for so long in the past? It’s been so quiet, I thought we might not even know if JJ made an announcement – went looking… Didn’t find a JJ update, but did find a great site with science articles that reflect the ‘science’ in Trek – good stuff; but oddly, no community of bloggers, as far as I could tell.

524. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - September 13, 2011

Well my friends. It was great while it lasted. i hope one day we can come back to this site and it be back to the glory days but i just dont think its going to happen any more.

It has been an honor to blog with you.

Live long and prosper!

525. Robert Robertson - September 29, 2011

Stand fast where you are. There are plenty more Romulans to fight in this day, and more glory to be won, just ready for the taking! Would you rather not be a part of it? 2012 will be that year.

526. StarrTreek! - October 27, 2011

Basically, I Love Spock :3

527. StarrTreek! - October 27, 2011

And Zachary Quinto!:3

528. fundoo - December 16, 2011

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