Zachary Quinto Comes Out – Inspired By Bullied Teen October 17, 2011
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Celebrity, ST09 Cast , trackback
Star Trek’s new Spock Zachary Quinto made big news over the weekend by revealing his is gay. In an interview and blog post the actor explained why it was important for him to come out after hearing about the suicide of a gay teenager. More details and reactions from some of Quinto’s fellow Star Trek stars below.
Tragedy compels Quinto to speak openly as gay man
Over his career Zachary Quinto has played a number of gay roles, including his first big role on Tori Spelling’s So NoTORIous, his Broadway stint in Angels In America and his upcoming recurring role on American Horror Story. However, until yesterday, Quinto didn’t speak publicly about his sexual orientation. The first reveal was in a New York Magazine Interview, here is an excerpt:
[Quinto's] eight-month role in Angels was both “the most challenging thing I’ve ever done as an actor and the most rewarding” he says. Having to inhabit that terrible lost world, if only in his mind, took a toll. “And at the same time, as a gay man, it made me feel like there’s still so much work to be done, and there’s still so many things that need to be looked at and addressed.”
The actor soon followed up with a new blog post on his official site, which explains why he now feels he must come out as a gay man. Here it is in full:
when i found out that jamey rodemeyer killed himself – i felt deeply troubled. but when i found out that jamey rodemeyer had made an it gets better video only months before taking his own life – i felt indescribable despair. i also made an it gets better video last year – in the wake of the senseless and tragic gay teen suicides that were sweeping the nation at the time. but in light of jamey’s death – it became clear to me in an instant that living a gay life without publicly acknowledging it – is simply not enough to make any significant contribution to the immense work that lies ahead on the road to complete equality. our society needs to recognize the unstoppable momentum toward unequivocal civil equality for every gay lesbian bisexual and transgendered citizen of this country. gay kids need to stop killing themselves because they are made to feel worthless by cruel and relentless bullying. parents need to teach their children principles of respect and acceptance. we are witnessing an enormous shift of collective consciousness throughout the world. we are at the precipice of great transformation within our culture and government. i believe in the power of intention to change the landscape of our society – and it is my intention to live an authentic life of compassion and integrity and action. jamey rodemeyer’s life changed mine. and while his death only makes me wish that i had done this sooner – i am eternally grateful to him for being the catalyst for change within me. now i can only hope to serve as the same catalyst for even one other person in this world. that – i believe – is all that we can ask of ourselves and of each other.
Here is the video "Its Gett Better" campaign video that Quinto was speaking about:
Although it may not come as a huge surprise to many, Quinto’s revelation made big news, being reported by many in the mainstream media. Quinto has recieved an outpouring of support on his site and via Twitter, including support from Star Trek luminaries Damon Lindelof, Roberto Orci, Jeri Ryan, Chase Masterson, .
For his part, Quinto sent out a message thanking everyone for the support:
UPDATE: Quinto talks to MTV
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Comments»
Gay or not gay you rock zachary quinto!
Well done Mr Quinto! A bold move in Hollywood – sad that it should be so in this day and age.
Love and respect, ZQ!…you did it with class!…. and waiting for Spock!
:-) :-)
I agree with Nomad, it is sad that it’s still a big deal in this day and age! On the other hand, Spock and Uhura – that’s just not right! Sorry Bob ;-]
Good for Zach!
Unfortunately, there are a lot of evil people out there who would do anything to destroy somebody just because of their sexual orientation.
Hopefully, the time will come when gay people can be open about their preferences without the fear of reprisals or bullying.
Good on you Zach! It’s great to have an intelligent, eloquent young guy out there to inspire and support young people finding themselves going through difficult times.
Very proud and glad Zach is part the Trek legacy! LLAP!
Thanks Zachary for sharing your strength. This is something I am sure the whole Trek community already supports … however it is not just nodding in agreement, it is taking action when prejudice confronts those around us.
We broke this story over on the Live Chat. Lol.
But good for Quinto. As Spock would say.
To Deny ones self would be Illogicle.
LLAP !
Bravo, Zach!
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations….
I’m proud of his decision. Honestly i never really looked past his professional career, so his sexuality never really crossed my mind.
He is a handsome guy and I’m sure his choice of men just got a lot broader now that he doesn’t need to keep a low profile haha
I wonder if He and George are gonna hit up the clubs now?….
See, this is why Spock’s my favorite. As someone working my way through the closet door myself, this gives me hope. Thanks for being honest, Mr. Quinto.
#11 + 13.
Take your bigotry somewhere else. It doesn’t belong here on TrekMovie.Com!
#15 good luck with that forest, I’ve had three good friends that have followed that path and are now through the closet door. It was difficult for them at first, I can only assume it took a lot of courage on their part but their lives are better for it now.
“Well I guess those days are over.”
Hmm. . . nope. Just checked, and murder is still illegal, and still wrong. But then, someone using Gandhi’s name to post against equal rights and decent treatment for all people is by definition impervious to all kinds of irony, let alone reason.
Mr. Quinto, your courage is an inspiration to us all. I didn’t like the 2009 movie, but this is nonetheless a proud day for Star Trek, and for the fans.
#16.
Well, in the words of Darth Vader, which, unlike you, don’t have to alter:
“I find your lack of faith disturbing!”
Good for you, Mr. Quinto. Ignore the wackos and haters!
Zachary does, indeed, rock. Hoping the positive feedback continues. And that, ultimately, it’s a non-issue. Live and let live long and prosper.
Ah, “Gandhi”…. there’s a difference between what’s moral and right and what you personally find distasteful. There’s no sense in disapproving of someone’s nature. You won’t change it, you just spread misery.
#19.
Well, I guess for someone so against those who prefer @$$holes, it’s pretty ironic that you happen to be one yourself!
I am so proud to be a ZQ fan. Sexual orientation should be a non-issue, hopefully someday when we evolve. Your brilliant and gorgeous, zachary, love you!
*sigh* Well I guess I won’t be marrying my celeb crush after all (like it was ever gonna happen lol.)
Much love and respect for Zachary on his decision to go public with this deeply personal issue. Perhaps in the not too distant future this won’t even be news worthy.
@13. “It is not prejudice to stand up for what is moral and right.”
But it is extremely arrogant and selfish to assume that your morals and sense of what’s right is the only viewpoint that matters. That’s like saying it’s not murder if the unarmed, non-threatening person didn’t have his shoe laces tied when you shot him/her. It’s right to you, but it really isn’t right for everybody, especially when it’s harmful towards someone for no real progressive reason.
I had to delete and ban for hate speech and sockpuppeting. (which screws up references to above numbers, sorry)
lets all try and get along here. Remember IDIC. (btw, tolerating hate and intolerance is not part of IDIC)
#25.
You fool! Homosexuality is a love between two consenting adults. Two men or two women agreeing to share their lives, and their love. Not all that different from what heterosexual couples experience. Well, except for one partner not being able to get the other pregnant.
I don’t know how you equate homosexuality with homicide, or beastiality or pedophilia.
I don’t think I want to know.
Also, you’re a real disgrace to the Gandhi name.
I would like to add that I am more than a little disturbed that one this and a couple of other Star Trek boards by some of the negative comments(see posts 11 + 13) I have seen. One would think that Star Trek fans would welcome diversity. Whatever happended to IDIC?
Well done to him, hope he feel’s better about being open, I know my partner (of three years) and I do…
Good for him. Hopefully he’ll inspire gay kids who can now look up to “the guy who plays Mr Spock” as yet another in a very long list of gay artists and notables who’ve made their name upon the world.
Zachary Quinto, may you live long and prosper! That was a bold and courageous move, and doing that to help others raises my already high opinion of you. Now, get back to work and make that next Star Trek movie (dammit! Hee hee…)!
In a universe of infinite diversity in infinite combinations, Star Trek really has to get it together and have an ONSCREEN gay character aboard the starship Enterprise (we already have openly gays finally serving even in our ‘primitive, archaic’ 21st century armed forces.
Keep up, Star Trek! ;-)
As a gay Trekkie, this is great news! I was, strangely, unaware of this. When he made an It Gets Better video, I thought it was as an ally. I never really connected it with him being gay. I sometimes don’t like to jump to conclusions. But the reason why he did it is very commendable and I have the utmost respect for Zachary! You are my hero!
No disrespect, but didn’t we all know he was gay anyway?
Just like Neil Patrick Harris and Ian McKellen it makes absolutely no difference to me. Brilliant actors are brilliant actors.
ZQ talked to MTV today…
here:
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1672677/zachary-quinto-gay-support.jhtml
Well, I kind of thought he was gay anyway. Doesn’t make any difference to me. He rocks as Spock! He has my full support.
@32 (TK421 – October 17, 2011)
I didn’t know he was gay, and I didn’t suspect anything.
Anyway, I admire his move. Right reasons, right thing to do.
Tell RED shirt to stop being a jerk!
No big surprise and either way I don’t care.
Didn’t realize ZQ’s being gay was a secret. No biggie. Looking forward to Star Trek II.
THRILLED for ZQ. Inspired by his courage. Grateful to him for speaking for all of us who would see an end to our nation’s last widely accepted form of discrimination.
The best to you, new Spock!
Well, judging from all the deleted posts I’ll give this thread another hour before it’s shut down. It’s a shame people can’t treat others the way they would want to be treated….
The hating of homosexuals is just another bigotry. These are the same kind of people who tried to deny African Americans civil rights, the same folk who would have some people classified as not fully human.
It’s cowardice and ignorance, pure and simple. There is no good reason for the hatred. But some people just have to hate.
It’s nice to see, however, that the vast majority of people here are supportive. But how sad that we even need to make this an issue.
I was ready to be upset with someone who referenced my post in a disparaging way, then realized that it was actually a reference to a post that had been deleted and my message then took that number. (See Anthony’s explanatory post above) All a bit confusing, but it’s all good. Again, rock on Zachary!
LLAP ZQ sexual diversity is the new hip.
Soooo are all the fans who wanted Sulu to become gay gonna switch to wanting Spock to become gay? JK
You know, I don’t get that much sh*t from kids my age. Mainly just adults. Maybe because I wear hearing aids no one wants to beat me up. Or maybe just lucky.
Saw your words, boborci. Thanks from the homos!
Your sexuality is part of who you are, yet doesn’t define you. I’m proud of you Zac for coming out, and it makes no difference in my already high opinion of you. I’m glad you were brave enough to make a personal stand about something you care so deeply about. In fact, I think I like you more now than I did before. You are simply an excellent actor. Being a Trekker, I considered Leonard Nimoy to be the one and only Spock, but after seeing the 2009 movie, you are the perfect choice to play his younger version, and no one could do it better.
Talented. Intelligent. Gay.
I hope I live to see the day when there’s no need to even clarify like it’s a “big deal”. Thanks for coming out and standing strong.
#43 all the deletions do indeed put a different spin on the thread. My post #15 now looks like I am congratulating myself for building towards coming out the closet whereas the poster it was originally directed towards is now being labelled a bigot due to the renumbering.
A good friend of mine is gay, and he outed himself to me. I actually had no clue he was gay, as his behavior in front of company is…well kind of ordinary I suppose you’d call it. When he outed himself, it was after a night of gay jokes at the table on game-night amongst a group of half-drunk friends who while not prejudice, simply have no qualms about telling a good joke at someone elses expense. There was such apprehension in his eyes, even in simply confiding in a friend, I can only imagine the kind of fear he must walk around with in his daily life.
We still tell gay jokes in front of him at the table (amongst other types of jokes), all in good natured fashion mind you, but not because we like screwing with him, but because the fact of the matter is, if you want to be treated like an equal, which he does, we are going to f**k with him just the same as we f**k with each other and everybody else. He admitted some time later he was actually glad to see our behavior and attitudes didn’t change at the table, as if they had, he knew it would have been because we were afraid of him now.
Quite honestly, no one cares he’s gay (just as no one would care if he was not)…so long as he keeps chipping in for beer.
Very proud and glad Zach is part the Trek legacy too
“Leave any bigotry in your quarters; there’s no room for it on the bridge.” Well done, Zach.
Mr. Quinto you are the man.
There have been rumours around for a while that Quinto might be gay. It’s never bothered me one way or the other. There has also been a lot of pressure put on Zachary Quinto to “come out” and very insistent some of it has been as well. I admire him that he did not succumb to those insisting that he should speak about his own private sexual makeup but only did so on his own terms and to speak up for those who are bullied for being the way they are.
A little while back, I remember Ellen DeGeneres say on one of her shows how she did not like the way people (gays and others) were hassling those actors/celebrities who were believed to be gay/lesbian to “come out” and make their sexual orientation known. She said it should be entirely up to those individuals to reveal that personal information when they feel ready, if ever. Of course, she is openly gay, but she also understands that being open for some can be a struggle and when all is said and done is really not joe-blogg’s business anyway.
Spock is not gay and he has a thing for that pretty human woman, Nyota Uhura. It is mutual as she has a thing for that pointy-eared Vulcan/Human Spock. Maybe they will continue their relationship, even to the point where we may hear the patter of little Uhura/Spocklets or maybe not. Quinto’s own sexual makeup has nothing to do with Spock. Besides Zachary Quinto does not have those ears. It’s all in the ears, you see…:)!
Way to go, ZQ!
as someone who recently came out to a few close friends and as an aspiring actor, I really admire Zachary he’s definately an inspiration.
@2 Nomad
“A bold move in Hollywood…”?
Are you kidding? This is the fast track to extra work, praise and awards from all over the media. There are no drawbacks whatsoever.
While it might be brave to “come out” in your personal life, doing so in Hollywood is no risk at all. And if an agent, producer or studio thinks you might have damaged your leading man marketability with the public, they’ll keep that opinion to themselves to avoid getting sued. They might even redouble their efforts to showcase you to “educate” that mean homophobe public.
Just ask Takei, who for no reason whatsoever now gets more work and media attention than anyone but Shatner.
Ask Ellen, or Rosie or any of the others who secure their fame and fortune and THEN become brave.
OK, it is cool and all that Quinto came out and I applaud his bravery. That said, what does he have against using capital letters? Really! I admit I do not have perfect grammar, but it is really annoying to read his messages with such a glaring avoidance of using capitals. Ok, he used them once to yell, but that’s it.
Reminds me of that writer Cummings. It’s still annoying, though.
In any timeline, Christine Chapel just can not catch a break.
Hear, Hear Zac! As a fellow gay man who has been thru the days early days of homophobia and other prejudices its great to see actors and others in the public feeling comelled to get involved and not hide in the closet.
Thank God we’ve moved on in the world although as Zachary says, there is still alot to do, especially in realation to youth suicide.
Whos gonna break the news to Uhura?
Am wondering if this won’t solve Paramount’s TREK-Franchise “gay-problem”.
As far back as Roddenberry’s era, adding a gay-character to the crew became more pressing with each new incarnation of the series. After the introduction of TREK’s first African-American captain (Sisko) & first female captain (Janeway), it was inevitable that TREK would address it’s neglect in portraying a gay-discrimination. Yet the Studio seemed to hesitate – sensitive to potential negative-reactions to steering the franchise back into controversial subjects. Since TOS, TREK has been fashioned into a generally “family friendly” franchise.
Now, after Mr. Quinto’s coming out, Paramount probably won’t need the courage to move forward – since one of their main-stars has already bravely risked taking the heat by being a ground-breaker. Maybe?
Nothing brave or admirable about coming out in a world that already actively encourages and promotes your lifestyle.
Try being a Christian in Hollywood. That’s true courage.
#60: this, by no means, solves Paramount’s dilemma. There is a difference between a gay actor playing a role and an actor (gay or straight) portraying a gay character.
Star Trek STILL has not crossed that threshold (except on the fun internet projects such as “Star Trek Phase II.”
My congrats to Mr. Quinto for his bravery (incidentally Mr. Odkin, I disagree with you. This WAS incredibly brave of Mr. Quinto. You mentioned some good names who have come out, but in Hollywood, they are the exception, not the norm).
aren’t Christians supposed to expect to be persecuted? then stop complaining about it.
besides, only a naive person would believe that the world “encourages and promotes your lifestyle”. young people aren’t killing themselves because they feel “encouraged”. that’s what Mr Quinto is addressing in his public proclamations.
I love how casual he was about it — no fuss, no big song and dance, just keeping it his own business until something important enough made him feel he should speak out. Classy dude, no matter who he fancies.
I do, however, foresee an explosion of truly awful Torchwood/Trek NSFW fanfiction…. *shudder*
@57: Glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I read that — well played! :D
Zachary, you are truly courageous. Your actions will save gay people and also be used as a metaphor for everyone else to stand up when life requires it. That’s Star Trek. I say this with as much warmth as I can on a Star Trek thread…. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER.
#61 This topic of whether Zachary is gay or not and whether he should “come out” if he is, has been the main focus of the IMDb Zachary Quinto message board for as long as I have been on IMDb (Sept. 2009). Many of his fans fear that if he did “come out” (if he was indeed gay), his acting career would be ruined. Hollywood will not want to cast him in any big serious movie roles, once the actor’s sexual orientation is public knowledge.
I do not know how valid this fear is, but it is there. You know what they say about smoke and fire… Although Hollywood and its surrounding areas have a higher than the state average of gay/lesbian couples living in defacto relationships etc (Silverlake has the largest number), it is not necessarily so for the rest of California. When the referendum was taken in California, which asked those of eligible voting age whether they wanted same-sex marriages legal, 80% voted against. This result shocked both the proponents and opponents of same-sex marriage. What’s more, the movie companies that make up Hollywood are not always as liberal as some might believe.
@62: I sympathize with your last line, but otherwise, no. The world is hardly encouraging, as you say… In the likes of Iran, being gay can get you killed. Oh yeah; here, too, and I’m not referring to those who’ve taken their own lives.
Being a Christian has it’s burdens, no doubt, but can you imagine the fear and isolation of the adolescent, teen, young adult who wonders what his parents, siblings, friends might think of him should they know…; who knows that a nation built on notions of equality and the pursuit of happiness at last endorses discrimination only against his kind?
In light of present conditions, Quinto’s decision to disclose takes more courage than wearing a cross on Hollywood Blvd.
Was waiting for this article — so proud of you Zachary!
To deny one’s true nature would not be logical.
I long for the day where it doesn’t matter what orientation you are, what color you are, what sex you are, what religion you are, whatever you are is a human being…love is love…
#67: Of course this world is not totally encouraging… but try being an out gay person in the 1940s, 50s or 60s. And yeah, the Middle East isn’t exactly a friendly bastion for anything not male, not Islam, not and definitely if female… this world still have problems with people of color, or women, or immigrants, of Muslims, of Mormons (you fill in the blank)…. if no one steps forward to challenge the bigots and homophobes out there, they have won.
Quinto’s actions just go to show young people they can be themselves. I by no means am implying it is easy. If it were, we wouldn’t be seeing a rash of suicides and hate crimes.
I am not sure what you are saying, but I can say as a gay man… one currently serving in our military ( and I have for the past 17 years), that things are changing for the better (albeit slowly)… and people like Zachary Quinto are making it easier. I stand by my words: I think Mr. Quinto is a brave man for taking this stand so early in his career!
Thankyou for speaking out Mr. Quinto. As you said we are all in this together.
I’ve just looked at the IMDb Quinto board and there is a lot of nutty stuff there. The “homophobes” are arguing that the percentage of gay/lesbians in the population is lower than 10%, while the gay/lesbian “homophiles” (supporters) are claiming the “homophobes” are in denial about just how many non-heterosexuals there are, ESPECIALLY actors in Hollywood. Both groups don’t like the notion that too many people might be having sex the way they wouldn’t have it themselves. The gays are just an antsy about heterosexuality as the others are about gay sex.
Then there is the same invasive insulting pressure being put on other actors/celebrities to “come out” whom these morons believe are gay/lesbian. Just the same rubbish being written about these other people as has been written about Zachary Quinto. It is not the sexual orientation that is revealed that bothers me. It is the expectation, the insistence, the crudeness, the rudeness, the bloody-minded nastiness that comes from so many anonymous posters/bloggers all over the internet that pisses me off.
I have not been to the Quinto board for a while and now I know why. All this stuff just creeps me out.
I wish Zachary Quinto all the best with Margin Call, and, will gladly see him as Spock, again, in a few months.
He’s a very talented man.
Strange how many close minded and bigoted Trekkies there are, especially since Star Trek focuses so much on embracing diversity. Don’t get me wrong, I think some times some groups (like GLADD) shove their agenda down people’s throats, but that’s no reason to gay bash.
@73 a lot of the reason these moves aren’t seen as particularly brave is that they never seem to occur BEFORE the actor has secured their fame and fortune.
There’s a whole dance where the celebrity even lies about it (like Rosie back in her “I love Tom Cruise” days), but then once they’ve ingratiated themselves to the audience and secured their fortune, out they pop.
The ones who never seem to come out are the actual Leading Men stars. Keachcik, imagine if Chris Pine was gay. How would you feel about watching him as a leading man in a romantic scene? Probably not so revved up. Supporting actors like Quinto seem to come out with great regularity and nobody cares.
When nobody cares, it’s not any big act of bravery. People would only care if it was an actor whose image has been that of a macho action star.
what Zachary Quinto is gay oh geez!!!! come on enough!!!
@71. MC1 Doug – October 17, 2011
MC1 Doug; sorry for the confusion. I was responding to a different post:
@61 – “Nothing brave or admirable about coming out in a world that already actively encourages and promotes your lifestyle…. Try being a Christian in Hollywood. That’s true courage.”
Numbering discrepancy may have been my error, or due to derogatory remarks being deleted from this thread. The latter case has been skewing numbering, throughout. Perhaps we should all refer by number and poster’s name, for better clarification.
I support your position 100%.
Congrats Zachary! And may I please have your number? ^_^
Good for Zach, he’s a talented guy and from what I’ve gleaned from Conventions and interviews, a decent human being…
“Are you kidding? This is the fast track to extra work, praise and awards from all over the media. There are no drawbacks whatsoever.”
“a lot of the reason these moves aren’t seen as particularly brave is that they never seem to occur BEFORE the actor has secured their fame and fortune.”
These two statements would seem to contradict each other.
It would go some way to explaining why the kissing in ST09 was so unconvincing! Then again, I guess there’s reasons why a Vulcan would be cagey about it.
What a boring topic. Big deal! I mean, I don’t really care about Quinto’s personal life.
And you just thought you’d come here to share that?
Well done Zac, you have boldly gone where cowards don’t dare to go already. Love, and respect from Istanbul.
Ref: #83. Why not — isn’t that what Quinto just did.
And who appointed you moderator?
I love this guy!
He is a fantastic Spock & just seems like an all around great human being.
His sexuality is none of my business, but if he feels publicly coming out is important, than more power to him!
i saw him on an episode of Tori Spelling’s show a few years ago & just assumed he was gay since then.
It was pretty thinly veiled.
Basically, I could care less which sex the guy likes, and I really don’t need to hear about this. I want to hear about the sequel progress, and this is just some more needless filler, and now all the old fat ladies who wrote all that K/S crap back in the 80’s and 90’s are going to feel rejuevanated by this and I’ll probably accidently run across some new graphic pictures of Kirk and Spock engaged in acts that are not in line with their characters in Trek, to put it mildly.
Enough of the sexual interests of the cast please — let’s make the next movie!
I never said that Zachary Quinto has been particularly brave. Yes, for now, Quinto does seem to play supporting roles (I’m not sure if the character he played in the play Angels in America was a lead or supporting role though) but the fear that some of his fans have is that he will not get roles any bigger than the ones he has already, simply because of this personal revelation he made about himself.
It has also been reported that about a year back Quinto was verbally berated and sworn at by a stranger, a mother with her young daughter watching and listening, for being gay because of what she had read or heard rumoured about him via the Pinto slash FICTION that was being written at the time. He was walking alone down a street in New York.
And we wonder how and why bullying can occur?
Ask yourself, honestly, if you were in Quinto’s position, would you want it known that you were gay, given the enormous prejudice and general nuttiness that surrounds this whole topic, when you are just starting out in your career and need as much work and a wide variety at that, as you can get?
We don’t even know when Quinto “came out” to his own family. If you look on the IMDb Quinto Homepage, you will see that he comes from an Irish/Italian Catholic family and went to Catholic schools until college. Think about it, people.
@89. Good for him, and shame on you bullies everywhere — please go back to bullying nerds instead of gay people.
Now let’s move on and make the sequel please.
Of course, this thread, like most of the threads, could be regarded as fillers. It is likely that Paramount is more secure than Fort Knox (or some other equally super safe facility) when it comes to revealing anything about the sequel. Perhaps Bob may be able to throw a few crumbs our way, but if it is anything like the first movie, there will just be a lot of rumour, silly innuendo, *catastrophizing, etc etc etc. Par for the course, really.
*Don’t think there is such a word, but it looks and sounds good…
Thank you Zachary Quinto. Your public coming out will have a ripple effect of encouragement, hope and safety in ways you will never become aware of. The character of Spock has worldwide fame and this news will resonate deeply. It’s a very big deal.
83, 86 and 87 Red Shirt Diaries
Hey homeboy, why have you made three (at least) posts on a topic you find ‘boring”?
“It would go some way to explaining why the kissing in ST09 was so unconvincing!”
Are you saying that he can only be convincing if (as an *actor* ) he only kisses other male actors?
Or, you were joking and I did not get your joke. It’s possible. My own brand of humour is an acquired taste.
Oh my… ^^ he should have Sex with Chris Pine… ;-)
“Oh my… ^^ he should have Sex with Chris Pine… ;-)”
If you say so.
:)
Uhura is going to be pissed.
All I can say is: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Mr. Quinto.
You’ve won the hearts of Star Trek fans worldwide and it makes no difference to the vast majority of us whom you chose to love.
(I was actually more shocked to hear Leonard Nimoy announce that he was an Orthodox Jew back in the 1970’s. Shatner being Orthodox, for some reason, did not surprise me.)
As a hag I gotta admit I have the sh!tiest gaydar ever.
Sad news that the world still has barriers against peoples sexual preference’s.
But well done Mr Quinto, glad you now feel happier
I am so happy that he admit to homosexuality! I hope everyone still love him, and I say, the bigots, be gone!
Good for you, Mr. Quinto. Now that you’ve secured your freedom from the closet, you can concentrate on living your life without chains on your mind or on your spirit!!
Now bring on Uhura/Spock in Star Trek 12!!!!
One thing though, Mr. Quinto — Uppercase letters are your friends. ;)
Go Zack! as someone who has serveral happy and openly gay friends (i live in southern england) it saddens me to think that in parts of the US kids like my friends are killing themselves because people won’t accept them for who they are. needs to change.
I support Mr. Quinto completely. I have no problem with any person’s sexual preferences.
But as 101. trekman_dave said “..Sad news that the world still has barriers against peoples’ sexual preferences…”
When I hear things like “teen bullied to the point of committing suicide because he’s gay,” it makes my blood boil and breaks my heart. To think there are people in this world who are so completely full of ignorance, without a shred of compassion, that they would drive another human being to suicide simply boggles my mind.
Life is such a temporary and fragile moment in time. You’d think EVERY human being would, therefore, treat it as something sacred, rather than an opportunity to casually destroy others.
No wonder I’m a cynic…
Live and let live. It doesn’t matter to me if Quinto is gay or not. I am a flaming heterosexual but gay people do not offend me. To each their own I say…
I said most of this on the other thread, but I am so happy that Mr. Quinto has decided to come out! Even though there have probably been a LOT of negativity on this site (thankfully it has been taken down), it is so nice to see that so much of the Trek community is being supportive not only of the Mr. Quinto’s revelation, but to the LGBT community as a whole.
But it is horribly sad that such a change came from such a tragic loss of Jamey Rodemeyer…hopefully his death will bring some real changes about how people view the bullying of the young gay community. This IS a problem and SOMETHING needs to be done. So thank you, Mr. Quinto for doing what you can to try and make that change happen.
So proud to be a Zachary Quinto fan and a Star Trek fan where we believe in Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations…
LLAP
I am saddened at people who express themselves in a hateful and distasteful way when it comes to expressing their opinions. Star Trek is a diverse universe and many episodes were able to allow both sides (and those in between) to be expressed without the kind of disrespectful attitude and speech seen here (or not seen when it gets deleted!).
I am a Biblical Christian who believes the Bible has some specific things to say about homosexuality (along with many other things often ignored while singling this one issue out) but as a Christian I also know every person is created in God’s image (whether or not they believe that or anything else the Bible says) and so how I act toward God’s image says a lot about myself and what I profess to believe rather than the people who are attacked in the manner described (and unfortunately displayed).
While Star Trek and IDIC are not “Christian” by any means I have always enjoyed and embraced its vision because many (but not all) of the values are reflections of God’s (in the Judeo-Christian tradition) and as such can be enjoyed by “believers” and “non-believers” alike in the spirit of IDIC.
Mr. Quinto and I might disagree over his lifestyle but I still affirm his right as a human created in God’s image to choose his own path (and as a Christian acknowledge that the end of his journey is between him and God alone). He is still a wonderful actor whose work in Heroes and Star Trek I have enjoyed and will continue to enjoy because his sexuality while important to who he is and his personal character must still answer to the Biblical and societal standards all people should and therefore, he should not be singled out as any different from any of the rest of us–there are far worse “straight” individuals whose personal lives are an affront to all of us!
@108 Schiefy- put your shields up.
ZQ kudos to you for being true to yourself.
To those who are about to blast Schiefy for “disagreeing” with ZQs lifestyle please be kind.
When one is Christian it means certain things to them.
The Bible is clear on homosexual behavior (I don’t agree with what the it says) When I struggle with what the Bible says I default to the love position.
Love your neighbor etc
Please respect someone who speaks up for their faith. Attacking or belittling them is the same as someone attacking ZQ for who he is,
I think when actors disclose their personal relationships to the world, it can distract from their overall performance. I am happy if Quinto is genuinely happy and found some sort of peace in his life.
Unfortunately, when actor’s personal lives become public or when they become political spokespersons, it is difficult for me to separate the character/ or political cause from the actor because the actor’s personal life outshines their character. (For example when I see a Tom Cruise film, I have difficulty seeing whatever character he is portraying, all I see, Katie Holmes, Dawson’s Creek, Scientology, couch jumping etc. or Kim Kardashian…sex tape) I find it terribly distracting from the overall performance of the actor. Kudos for coming out Zach but can you focus on your craft more?
Kind of echoing some comments above…
…is this what Trekmovie should be covering?
I’d rather this not turn into a gossip feed (”Chris Pine is dating so-and-so”) about actor’s personal lives. If Quinto’s happy, more power to him, but I don’t come to Trekmovie so I can hear the latest about people’s personal lives.
Love your entire statement #52!. # 108 I thinks its really cool you expressed your opinion respectfully and without hate.
I congratulate you Mr. Quinto for being true to who you are and being willing to reveal a personal aspect of your life in hopes of it helping others. Its ashame that some individuals on the internet now feel like you might not be able to play certain roles (or certain aspectsroles of roles)convincingly, but that’s their issue not yours. I enjoyed your performance as spock and feel you played every aspect of him brilliantly. I look forward to more from you in the future and hope from here on you can focus on your career and what you want to do in the entertainment industry instead of your sexual orientation.
Well done Zach, not that your sexuality should matter but well done for not making a big deal out of it and being as intelligent and as eloquent as you always seem to be.
Bigotry, of any kind in this day and age confuses me. Its frankly stupid to judge someone on their sex, gender, religion, race ect – maybe we should make Star Trek a must watch seminar at schools :p
I digress, high five Mr Quinto. You’ve done yourself, and all of us GLBT fans proud
In addition to my earlier comments, and I think this applies to all the ST actors gay and straight, remember these characters that you all are portraying are Iconic characters. I know the actors have their own personal lives but please be respectful to the genre and keep your personal lives and political views separate from your craft.
(IMO, I prefer to be clueless about ALL of your personal lives, so that I can focus on whatever character you’re portraying.)
The last thing we as die hard fans want to see are our rebooted actors “Kirk”, “Spock”, “Bones” etc., on TMZ stumbling out of a club and barfing on a street corner.
Nicely done now Live long and Prosper…….this is 2011 there should not be any fear of discrimination if you are gay or not..
Now for all thoes reasons- make them establish a gay character or just the fact there is homosexuality in the RSTAR TREK sequel & the greater star trek univeres Zack!
I’m sick of people implying “gay” is one of the sicknesses that was cured by the 23rd century…
I’ts a bad message- Gene Roddenberry wanted to setablish gay people were in the 23rd centurt but 20 years ago the networks stopped it- what’s the excuse now?
“Do it! Do it! Do It!”
Now for all thoes reasons- make them establish a gay character or just the fact there is homosexuality in the “STAR TREK” sequel & the greater star trek univeres Zack!
I’m sick of people implying “gay” is one of the sicknesses that was cured by the 23rd century…
It’s a bad message- Gene Roddenberry wanted to establish gay people were in the 23rd centurt but 20 years ago the networks stopped it- what’s the excuse now?
“Do it! Do it! Do It!”
Who cares if he is gay or not. He plays an awesome Spock so as long as he can do that, he has my support.
I am happy and proud of you Zachary Quinto, you are an inspiration to so many people for your bold decision to come out. I applaud you sir!!
Live long and prosper ZQ. I can still remember the first time I saw the trailer of ST2009 and saw the images of \Spock beaming down on Vulcan. It sent shivers down my spine and a silent tear to my eyes. Spock lives again and thanks!!!
It takes big balls to come out and say your gay. I tip my hat to you zach in the divided world we live in its a big step for what you believe in.
I agree with #108 and #109. What I wish is that people would stop making such a big deal out of sexual orientation. The fact that I am hetero doesn’t define me and I don’t feel the need to call attention to that all the time or march in a parade because of it. The thing I find irritating about is that the best way to gain respect is to not hold up a sign that says “Look at me! Look at me!” Seriously, I think the person calling attention to their orientation has more of an issue with it than the majority of the rest of us.
Agreed that I don’t give a rip about Quinto’s orientation — dude just give us your best Spock and what you choose to do in your bed and with whom and who you love is none of our business.
:-)
I’m coming out as a straight man.
Seriously (I am addressing no one in particular here), if you cannot separate an actor’s private life with the character on television or on the silver screen, then I suspect you are lacking a little bit in the imagination department.
Nor is it fair for you to demand that actors sublimate their private lives just so you can enjoy (or not) their performances. Again, this is your problem not theirs (or at least it shouldn’t be).
AND if you cannot, and don’t wish to try, try reading fiction only. After all, that is real (grin).
As to whether this thread is embracing gossip, I don’t think so, Mr. Quinto finally publicly came out. That is a fact, not gossip. And as I’ve indicated earlier, I applaud his bravery–and his honesty–in doing so.
I think the point here is perhaps not his orientation, but WHY he announced it. That reason is far more important.
@125 NCC-73515
I completely, 100% agree with you. That is the real issue here and that shouldn’t be forgotten or ignored.
@125
Spot on. Well done Zach.
@125…Let me be clear that regardless of my personal view on homosexuality I would never condone the kind of behavior directed toward the young man that compelled Mr. Quinto to “step out.”
In spite of the stereotypes thrown about in the media about Christians who might be against homosexuality I do believe most who are trying to follow the teachings of Christ are not encouraging or meaning to encourage the hate other individuals spew against these young people who feel taking their own lives is the only way to deal with their persecution–in this I support Mr. Quinto’s efforts to be part of a solution rather than being silent on this issue.
Star Trek and TrekMoive.com can be wonderful forums for all of us to dialog about important issues of today and not just about the future we all dream about–respectful discussion might turn into real positive action in the true spirit of Trek!
Congrats ZQ !
Bravo to Zach! I’m sure that there are other people out there that will take your stand to heart and realize that there’s nothing wrong with them. It’s our society that needs fixing, not us.
Bullies are bullie. Whether becasue of being a nerd, sexual orientation, race, appearance…etc. etc., the people out there who are bullies will still continue to attack and bother any person who they think they can get away with.
So great, we get the word out more about not bullying gays. Guess what, those bullies, if this causes them to think a bit differently, will just start bullying somebody else for a different reason. That is why this bullying issues here by Quinto is pretty much a non-starter in my book.
@110 “Unfortunately, when actor’s personal lives become public or when they become political spokespersons, it is difficult for me to separate the character/ or political cause from the actor because the actor’s personal life outshines their character. (For example when I see a Tom Cruise film, I have difficulty seeing whatever character he is portraying, all I see, Katie Holmes, Dawson’s Creek, Scientology, couch jumping etc. or Kim Kardashian…sex tape) I find it terribly distracting from the overall performance of the actor. Kudos for coming out Zach but can you focus on your craft more.”
Exactly. I wish actors and sports celebrities would just shut the F up regarding their politcal beliefs and personal alives…ENOUGH ALREADY PLEASE…if I want to assess politcal or cultural isssues, I’ll read the newspapers, etc.
Anthony Thompson said: “Hey homeboy, why have you made three (at least) posts on a topic you find ‘boring”?”
Mr. Thompson, as an African American, I find your comment here extremely distateful.
And Mr. Thompson, or should I call you, “THE MAN”, as to the substance of your question, I would hope that some day soon others would join me in agreeing that this is a boring topic. Our society is too focused on making a big deal and sensationalizing things like this…well I think that a sign that a society is truely mature would find this boring. Not sure from your posts if you would understand the term “mature society,” but try to think on it, would you?
Of course, this is probably the only bigotry left in our society, apart from maybe talking about muslims, that’s still socially acceptable. These “i don’t believe in it,” “i don’t think it’s right,” “I don’t think it’s moral,” “I don’t want it thrown in my face,” “I don’t want my child exposed to,” and worse variations have been used to justify discrimination, and worse, well, forever. Of course, racism, sexism, etc. Still exist, but few people would admit it if interviewed by the local news.
The bottom line is, what the heck does it have to do with the “I” in these statements. St. Patrick’s Day isn’t about the Irish trying to make you Irish. It’s understandable that, if you’re not gay, you might not understand it. And, yes, some religions still teach that it’s wrong, usually with no solid backing up from
scriptures. But, this shouldn’t inform government policies. Or make it okay to tell people that they shouldn’t exist.
This discussion, like I’ve said before, is at thé very heart of what Trek is about. I still find it amazing that people who love a series that’s all about embracing diversity and overcoming differences and conflict, get all angry about the gays ruining the world.
“I’m not homophobic, I just think it’s disgusting and wrong,” — well, then don’t be gay, don’t get gay married and live your life like you have all along.
Amen, Jack (post #135)!
I’m glad that ZQ is getting an outpouring of support from the Trek family. It’s refreshing to see even from some those who don’t necessarily agree with the appropriateness of a gay lifestyle give their love and support to ZQ. Sadly, it’s unacceptible that we live in a world where anyone who says “I don’t support gay marriage” is automatically branded as a bigot or homophobe.
We won’t truly achieve Roddenberry’s concept of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations until both examples above are accepted and respected, whether or not one agrees with them.
@135. What society are you living in. It is not soically acceptable with the people I hang out with. Get some new friends and make a personal stand where you run into this crap.
#73. Keachick…
In fact no one is a better person because of their sexual orientation… There is garbage everywhere… stupid comments is not lacking on this subject… patience… patience…
:-) :-)
Who the hell is Zachary Quinto?
While I applaud Mr. Quinto for doing what he has, I truly feel the bigotry of our world will only truly be gone when no one makes a big deal out of this at all…including those who are indeed homosexuals themselves. A celebrity should not have to announce to the world that they are gay to make it acceptable for other people to be gay. It should be acceptable regardless and ones orenentation should be a complete non-issue.
It saddens me that I see some of my fellow Star Trek fans being so intolerant. We are supposed to be a tolerant bunch are we not?
For the record, as a heterosexual I accept homosexuals as fellow human beings. I wish everyone else could too. Sadly, while we have made strides as a society I don’t believe I will see the day in my lifetime. I hope I am wrong.
Way to go Mr. Quinto!
#132 – “Exactly. I wish actors and sports celebrities would just shut the F up regarding their politcal beliefs and personal alives…ENOUGH ALREADY PLEASE…if I want to assess politcal or cultural isssues, I’ll read the newspapers, etc.”
So I take it that you think it is OK to write what you have, quoted above, on a PUBLIC forum, but not OK for another individual born in the US like Zachary Quinto to say what he thinks/believes in a similar public forum? It is to you and people like you, that I say ENOUGH ALREADY PLEASE.
As I written before, many actors like Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto do make valiant attempts to keep their personal lives away the paparazzi media. The fact is that it is not always very easy, especially when people carry around tiny cellphones with a camera and access to the internet. Someone caught a pic of Chris Pine at a local supermarket, his hair all disheveled, like he had just got up and realised he had no milk, coffee, whatever… I’m in NZ and I have the photo bookmarked – can’t help it – he’s just so yummy even when he looks like he has just fallen out of bed. He probably knows about the photo now, but at the time…
That is how invasive it can be. So what if Chris or Zach or Karl or John et al want to use the media to bring up an issue that is important to them, and perhaps to many others as well? There is also something about individuals being public spirited…
Now that Mr. Quinto was man enough to come out, when are all you bigots over 30+ toy collecting, comic book reading, video game playing geeks going to come out and admit you are virgins?
And a full 2 years prior to So NoTORIous.
I admit I’m a flaming heterosexual. Does anyone care? HAHA!!
12- George Takei is happily married and doesn’t hit the ‘clubs’. Some have this strange idea that unfettered promiscuity is part of the gay lifestyle. Promiscuity among the homosexual community is no more so a fact than it is in the heterosexual community. Most everyone is simply looking to connect with that one special someone.
I hope that puts that idea to rest with all of the rest of the misinformation spread by the bashers and the bullies, where it belongs…
Alot of people seem to be surprised that trek fans can be bigoted, but the truth is liking trek does not vaccinate anyone against prejudice. I’ve known trek fans who have made homophobic jokes, “N” word jokes and who have made sexist statements all while still proudly proclaiming themselves trekkies. I even met someone who said he liked trek but thought it was promoting too much diversity. In this day and age other prejudices like sexism, racism and even bigotry against peoples religious beliefs, are not gone. Its just not “PC” to speak openly about those things the way people can still feel comfortable speaking against homosexuality. It might be surprising to some but many people have developed this “as long as its not happening in my backyard” kind of mentality. They love the gays, just don’t let their son johnny bring home a boyfriend. They love the blacks, just don’t let their daughter rose bring home a black boyfriend etc..its unfortunate, but we may never reach a place where our world looks like the trekkie verse, but people like zach quinto who take a stand are at least taking strides to help us possibly get there.
It doesn’t matter to me what Quinto’s sexual orientation is…..but can we get a Spock with a manlier voice?
Be a role model for being a good person who does good things for other people and does good things to make this a better world.
That’s what’s real.
That’s what’s important.
Not who you spend time with in bed.
147# I myself am a gay man(nor do i go out clubbing). i was just making light of the news.
come on let’s loosen up folks. the idea of spock and sulu hitting up a club is humorous!! :p
Amen, Jorg you hater you!!! HAHA!!! Kidding on the hater part…lol!!
Zachary has always stood out as a good actor and a good person from articles i read about him and interviews i’d seen. i’ve seen pictures of him with his (then) boyfriend at the beach or going to bars or whatever so i guess it wasnt something that’s necessarily been hidden so to speak (kind of like wentworth miller) but i always figured he just didnt want to make a big deal out of it by putting it out there in the press. honestly though i, as a gay dude, appreciate the reasons why he chose to step up and come out publicly. at the end of the day it’s all for personal reasons and hopefully this doesnt hinder his acting career. he’s simply a good versitile actor.
kinda interesting, but his blog post reads very spock-like.
Like others here, I just kinda figured ZQ was gay. And it didn’t matter one bit.
Okaaaaay…but this is gonna make any further ‘Spock/Uhura’ shennanigans seem even more ridiculous if the writers continue in this direction now, lol!
Their onscreen ‘relationship’ will definately take me out of the movie, if it’s not toned down for the sequel.
I’d rather ‘Spock’’s character was kept aloof from such things anyway. Leave the romancing to ‘Kirk’!
Brilliant Mr Quinto. So glad I didn’t work in an industry where I have to live a lie.
I am a trangendered Dachshund. Yes, life has been tough for me but my Mom loves me.
I think Zak did the right thing. He didn’t do it for himself, I believe he did it to show that it does “get better”.
And, I don’t run with the idea that celebrities can’t speak out on issues that matter to them. H3LL, politicians do it all the time and lie like dogs. Oh, not dogs, like, well, politicians. If I had the public’s ear I would surely use the position to speak about what matters to me.
I think when people say celebs shouldn’t speak out they are jealous that celebs (or anys) soapbox and spotlight.
@ #155 just because the actor in question is gay does not mean he cannot play a straight character or act out a heterosexual relationship. No one should be limited to the types of roles they can play based on their sexual orientation, gender or race. To limit people or think otherwise is pretty narrow minded. Furthermore quinto’s coming out is bigger then his role in trek and its much more important then a fictional relationship or characters. If you don’t like a particular relationship from the film, then fine, but this isn’t the time or place for that in light of the deeper issues at hand.
This was a surprise?
Glad ZQ feels secure/confident enough to be himself. I hope he will inspire others.
Why does this site post “news” like this and then whoever runs the show gets upset when when anything but a affirmative attitude is presented? You must have known this would invite controversy. Is this site not supposed to report news on Star Trek? What does anything that an actor does or say outside of the set matter? People will always have differing opinions and no amount of slander from other side of the coin is going to change the other group’s mind. I call for a complete ban of discussion about things like this, REGARDLESS of who’s involved, gay or straight, male or female. I wish ALL sexuality would be removed from entertainment. Who cares what people do in the bedroom? For those who insist on bullying based on such trivial things, give them a broken nose.
If it stops one suicide, it was enough. If it stops one elderly trekkie from demanding that gays be invisible and unnoticeable, it was enough.
Let’s ALL be invisible and unnoticeable. Let us all treat each other as respectfully and as kindly as possible, then there will be no need for any arguments for any reason whatsoever.
Except of course, those who don’t. Anybody who continues with any bulling, my earlier comment about the broken nose still stands.
Love long and prosper.
#158
They should drop the Uhura/Spock thing because it’s kind of a dumb idea. I am with #155 in the respect that Spock having a girlfriend that bosses him into changing the ship she is assigned to is not only totally illogical, it’s completely out of character for both of them.
Spock only get’s chicks when Pon Farr strikes or when he get’s blasted by alien spores. Other than that he spends his energy on using science and logic to help Kirk figure out problems. And to bait McCoy into some sort of humanist argument.
OMG!!!… now the haters of Uhura think they are right… do not listen to them, boborci… wherever you are… boborci are you there?…. LOL
:-) :-)
Yayyyyy! Another fancy officer in the tradition of George! You’re wicked Takei, Zach :)
#166
What in the name of heck are you talking about? Are you referring to my comment? If so, Nice going labeling people haters when they have committed no actual hate.
#168…
nope. I’m not talking about you… I’m talking about of the haters of Uhura…
:-) :-)
“…parents need to teach their children principles of respect and acceptance.”
Although I’m saddened that anyone would take their life, I still disagree with Quinto because he needs to be able to define and explain what those principles are founded on. He fails to do this as most people who talk about “respect and acceptance” do.
Also, by asking people to respect and accept homosexuality, he’s asking them at the same time to disregard their own beliefs and values. That’s not acceptance itself. As good as an actor as he is, I just don’t buy his worldview where all beliefs and lifestyles are accepted because that’s literally not possible.
Why does it surprise anyone that there is a gay man working in the theater?
Do any of you know any show biz people? Do any of you have any GLBT friends at all? If you had, you would simply show Mr. Quinto your support, because you love what he’s done onstage. That is the only criterion on which he should be judged. There are so many gay men involved in theater arts that it really SHOULD be a non-issue.
We should feel pleased that Mr. Quinto feels comfortable enough today to be himself. If this were 1966, this kind of admission would be career suicide. Can you imagine what would have happened to the careers of: Rock Hudson, Dick Sargent, Roger C. Carmel, Lawrence Olivier, Charles Laughton, and any number of performers if they were outed back then?
It’s still not entirely safe as many leading men remain deeply closeted.
And if, in coming out, Mr. Quinto is able to cheer up some poor kid because of senseless bullying, then more power to him. He might even save a life or two. Hopefully, someday, people can all just be themselves.
@ # 165 as I said earlier, this post is not about spock having a relationship. Its about the fact that a teen was bullied into committing suicide for being gay. That that teen is part of a sad number of teens who have done the same and Zachary Quinto was so moved by this that he has decided to come out with his sexual orientation publicly in hopes of helping others. This should be the main focus of posters here and how they feel about it, or how it effects them personally. This should not be the time for posting negative comments about certain characters or about particular aspects you disliked in the reboot film. For just this one post it would be awesome if people could focus solely on the things that effect all of humanity rather then expressing their objection to a fictional relationship and characters.
@ BAD ROBOT/PARAMOUNT –
Please, do not change anything in the script in light of Zachary Quinto’s personal statements. If there is to be a continuation of the Spock/Uhura relationship in the story already approved, then let it stand. Spock possibly needs a loving woman’s touch, just as much as Kirk does, especially in light of what has just happened to his mother and world.
What is going in the actors’ personal lives should have no bearing on what goes on with the characters they play. Once on the sound stage, Zachary is no longer Zachary Quinto (gay human male), but Spock (heterosexual Vulcan/human male). Chris Pine is no longer Chris. He is a young Captain James T Kirk of the USS Enterprise (a heterosexual human male)…and so on.
#172 – I agree. There are so many pressures on youth, what with socio-economic problems, managing to get through school with good grades, the easy availability of drugs and alcohol, weight control problems (something not seen in previous generations), the extremist and often ambivalent attitudes towards sexual behaviour of teenagers or what is expected of teenagers. Then there are the bullies, who just have to pick out somebody who appears different, whether they are fat, nerdy, gay or whatever. God help the person if they happen to be fat, nerdy and gay. What to do.
I think that it is very important that the focus be on BULLYING and teaching people to live and let live. They live in a democratic society where everyone has a right to live a safe, healthy, productive life. Not addressing the ongoing and escalating bullying behaviour towards other, for whatever reason, is how tyranny and anarchy get a foot in the door. Unfortunately, bad though it is, this is NOT just about a gay teen taking his own life because it has been made hell by bullies, it is more serious than that.
We need to stand up to all bullies and stop the “disease” of intolerance, ignorance, stupidity and cruelty.
He didn’t come out of the closet. He came out of the turbolift.
I have no problem with the Spock/Uhura relationship, nor any problem with her “bossing” him into reassignment. We have to remember that Spock is half human, and is undoubtedly struggling with his emotions more than any pureblooded Vulcan. It makes sense to explore that. And Vulcans DO have relationships and get married and have sex and all that kind of stuff.
As for the issue of bullying, I was tormented terribly in my school years, and I wasn’t even gay. I was just an intelligent, shy dweeb who caught the eye of every bully in the neighborhood and school.
It scarred me, it changed me profoundly in ways I’ll never completely know, and many decades later I still have some of the issues that germinated from that bullying. I never considered suicide, but I was profoundly depressed much of my life, and it still surfaces from time to time.
I can’t imagine going through those times with the added burden of having to hide my sexuality for fear of being further demonized. That probably would have pushed me into suicide territory.
I despise bullies. Being bullied results in the slow death of a part of that person. It is inhumane and intolerably cruel. Today I can stand up to bullying. For a few decades I couldn’t. I feel very acutely for anybody going through such a thing.
That’s why I think Zachary Quinto is so great for doing what he has done. My respect for him has grown.
If you are reading this, and have had the opposite reaction, I implore you to look with better eyes, to open your heart, to open your mind. There is no justification for your hate.
@ # 176 that’s a bold testimonial. I too was bullied in my youth and there was a time I considered suicide. Luckily I had an amazing family and few wonderful friends who helped me get through. Bullying for any reason is no joke and it saddens me to hear that anyone has taken their own life over it. I can’t imagine the pressures of being gay, but I know what its like to feel hopeless and wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Thats why I applaud those who take a stand and try to help those in need in anyway they can. Its also why I support trek depicting characters of all kinds regardless of race, gender,culture ;relationships of all kinds, and hopefully eventually new characters with different sexual orientations.
Zak – Way to go my friend…Every time anyone takes a stand it makes life a little easier for the next guy. Someday soon this will not be an issue, but unfortunately from some of the responses here and on other Star Trek sites from a vocal/ignorant minority there is still some work to be done.
well said Patrice…..why make such an announcement on such a private , personal issue….it is hard to separate the person from the character….unfortunately reading these comments, mr Paschale has deleted those who do not agree with his views on homosexuality…but I notice how vulgar language is allowed to remain in these threads as he allows them to remain, even to the point of name calling….when George Takei came out I made a comment about him as I wish he would have just kept his presonal life private….it was not necessary to make his big announcement that he was gay….I wrote nothing of vulgarity or even prejudiced wording….but mr Pascale deleted my comment..I have notice he is very prejudice when someone disagrees with him on issues….but allows vulgar language to remain in the threads..most likely he will delete this comment too…you see prejudice can work both ways….and he is very prejudice of anyone who differs from his views…but it is his page…so he has that right….just for the record not everyone is comfortable about homosexuality….I am a christian and the bible is very clear that homosexuality is both morally and spiritually wrong…..that doesn’t make me prejudice, I am one of those people who does believe that being gay is a choice….it is a chosen lifestyle and if one chooses to live that lifestye choice then so be it…we live in a very permissive world and unfortunately we will reap what we have sown….for the record I have a gay brother who I love very much…but he doesn’t throw his beliefs around me ….he has a private life and I respect that & he respects my beliefs…I don’t hate him or anyone else who I know is gay…the problem is not about being gay or not being gay…the problem is not respecting others for having different beliefs or views. I will be totally surprise if Mr. Pascale leaves this comment in this thread…
Ref: #176 “As for the issue of bullying, I was tormented terribly in my school years, and I wasn’t even gay. I was just an intelligent, shy dweeb who caught the eye of every bully in the neighborhood and school.”
Exactly. As I said before, sure it is great for people to bring more light to the situation of gay bullying, but even if we make headway on that, the bullies will just find other targets, be it shy, fat, nerdy, pimpled, jewish and/or Korean kids, etc. etc. etc.
The real problem is not being gay, it is on stopping bullying of all types. As the well meaning people who are are against gay bullying pat themselves on the back as stoppers of gay bullying, those bullies who formerly targets gays will just target other kids instead.
Bullying needs to stopped, period, and it should be stopped independent of any particular special interests groups focus.
I mean I was bullied signficantly in Middle School, and no Hollywood type went public to bail out my ass.
#179
He didn’t make it as a big public statement. His statements were made very matter of fact, as if he assumed everyone already knew he was gay. I think most of us suspected it anyway, no big deal. If you take the time to actually read what he said i think, or hope, you’ll feel differently. He was giving his view as a gay man to questions asked to him. No big deal, no big publicity stunt. Just a conversation.
On a personal note, I feel sorry for you and your brother. I’m sorry that you have missed so much of each other’s lives by hiding your head in the sand. And you say you love your brother, I call BS! He happens to be gay, and you choose to follow some silly book of fiction (The Bible) and shun him. Shame on you. Do you REALLY believe it’s a CHOSEN life? REALLY? (BTW, as a gay man, I hate the word “lifestyle”, as if it’s a choice…. like a hairstyle. It’s called a life)
Thanks, Zach. You will indeed make a difference in someone’s life. You can count on it. You’re a class act and I respect you much for coming out in the way you did and the reasoning behind it at this time.
You are right, we are all in this together. I long for a day when we do not need labels and we can all learn to appreciate our differences.
179. Captain Kathryn – I’m very sorry, but do you know any gay people? You miss a real opportunity by not talking to your brother about it. I know many, and I guarantee it is not a choice. So you’re saying you can make yourself attracted to the same sex? I can’t. It’s just not in me. I wonder what your brother would say.
I’m sorry, but you speak from ignorance on the matter. I’m not calling you ignorant, but on this subject, you are. I’ve known many prejudiced people in my life, and not a single one of them ever thought they were.
You are the reason Zach Quinto must speak out. Until they aren’t discriminated against, until they aren’t treated like second-rate citizens, until they are afforded equal rights, gays must speak out.
It’s the new Civil Rights movement.
#179 Captain Kathryn
Homosexuality is not a chosen “lifestyle.” Read some science once in a while. However, Christianity is a chosen lifestyle. All religions are chosen. And since you say that the bible condemns homosexuality, I’d like to remind you of some other things the bible condemns. How many of these scriptures do you follow? (This is a letter that was sent to Dr. Laura once in response to her beliefs on homosexuality and I think it speaks volumes about how Christians like to pick and choose what to belief in the bible.)
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination… End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
Your adoring fan.
James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus Dept. of Curriculum,
Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia
@ 179. Captain Kathryn
It’s a “choice” for them, and a “lifestyle”, Kathryn?? So, what about you? Is your attraction to men just a choice for you? Or, is it just the way you are? Is heterosexuality just a “lifestyle” that you chose for yourself?? What about dogs vs cats? Does someone choose to be a “dog person” over being a “cat person”? Or, is it because they simply like dogs? Do you “choose” to like Star Trek, or do you just love it and feel a connection to it?
I’m a heterosexual male. I didn’t choose to be one. I just am. I could never “choose” to be gay and attracted to other men. The world is what YOU make of it. Using the Bible as your excuse for bigotry (let me guess.. Republican??) is getting old. Start thinking for yourself, instead of blindly following what others tell you you’re supposed to believe, like some kind of sheep.
#182…this is exactly what I was talking about…you have such a negative and violent anger in you…you certainly don’t sound like a happy person….you are once again name calling something that I believe to be truth….I believe the Bible is very clear and you are disrespecting my beliefs by calling it a ’silly book of fiction’…you are only clarifying and proving the point I was making…name calling and cussing at someone who believes differently from you…’prejudice works both ways’ doesn’t it??…I detect hate in your voice…as far as my brother and my relationship goes I have not ever shunned him or his gay lover…..we have a good healthy loving relationship and he respects me and as much as I respect him….we see each other frequently and were close growing up…he lives on the other side of the country and we see each other when he comes in…no stress, no tension from either one of us or the rest of the family He is treated as our brother whether he is gay or not…we may not agree but we respect each other…you have a problem….you have a lot of hate in you and I feel sorry for you…no need to feel sorry for me or my brother…and yes I read Zachary’s statement very clearly..he said as a gay man…well I am a straight woman and it makes me sick to see anyone bullied…I have had gay friends and have been bullied myself as an only woman working in a lab full of men who had to listened to sexist remarks…no one ever came out of hollywood to defend me as a woman…I heard remarks such as “if you can’t take the heat, then get out of the kitchen’….it only made me det ermined to prove that i was as good of a lab tech as any of those men were….yes I know all about prejudice and bullying….I hate both and I found the best way to fight it is not to allow it to become a cancer and eat me up the way it can…hope you find peace in your life and cut the cancer of hate out….
#185…GG…not ‘Republican’….’Independent’….
Hey Captain Kathryn…
Boy, you really seem to lashing out at folks and saying things like you “hear a lot of hate in their voices.” Hmmm…I read the post to which you responded in this way. I sure didn’t “hear” any hate in their posts. It’s kind of tough to hear something that is written, but maybe you have extra-sesnsory perception for the written word. What I would say to you is that perhaps you are projecting just a tiny little bit.
By they way, anxiously awaiting to hear what you think about the scriptures quoted in my post. It’s purposely tongue-in-cheek to hopefully make you think.
I don’t think you are going to find a lot of sympathy for your views on here, but keep posting because it just makes it all the more evident that this is why someone like Zach Quinto needs to come out.
I am constantly amazed that their are Star Trek fans who don’t understand what Gene Roddenberry’s world was all about. IDIC?
Good for you Zach!
I love how Republicans and extreme Christians insist that being gay is a “choice” and a “lifestyle”, and not because it’s just the way God made them. BUT, when it comes to climate change/global warming, they insist it is NOT due to our “lifestyle choices”, but just a “natural” and “caused by God” change in weather patterns. They just pick and choose and rewrite whatever they want, and make up their own “facts”, to fit their bigotry and ignorance. Laughable
p.s. I wasn’t lashing out at Kathryn. She wasn’t trying to be mean-spirited in her statements. I’m just sick and tired of hearing people talk like that. It’s so Medieval and archaic (and, ridiculous). They’re human beings, just like the rest of us. They have the same feelings as everyone else. Religion in politics is ruining this country. We’re Americans. We’re a family. Let’s start acting like it.
If you read my posts without blinders on I wasn’t lashing out at anyone….didnt condemn anyone for their beliefs…I answered a post that Brian wrote in response to my original and yes he is an angry young man…and please point out to me where in my post I had said a lot of folks that I “hear a lot of hate in their voices”…never said that…I was responding to Brian….who am I lashing out at?….he is the only one I responded to ….If you even would sit and read my post I do not express any anger or hate…read my last one again….in response to your leviticus statements….hmmm ….interesting indeed….thank goodness we don’t sacrifice animals anymore …..why would i respond to that….I could equally write all kinds of scriptures dealing with this subject , such as Lev. 18:22 or 1 Cor. 6:9…I don’t think I have to write it out, if you want to know what it says you can look it up yourself…..but anger, or lashing out at people…you are reading my posts through blinders….and in no way am I even inclining to want ’sympathy’ from anyone on this thread…just voicing my thoughts on the subject like everyone else…oh by the way, I think Zachary Quinto is a wonderful actor and played Spock very well….saw the movie 5 times…but like Patrice said it will be difficult to see him the same way when or if he is paired up with Zoe as Uhura in the next movie….just a fact….doesn’t take away from his acting at all…it is just acting….
Look, just because the bible says that homosexuality is bad doesn’t mean that we should abide by it. I respect peoples’ right to practice whatever religion they believe in, but sometimes one has to move past certain ideals that might be part of one’s faith.
But as for respecting someone else’s beliefs, there are limits. If someone doesn’t support gay rights, then their beliefs can be called into question. Because I have to ask: Why is it any of your business as to what two consenting adults of the same sex do in their homes? Why is it so important to deny others that you, as a heterosexual, take for granted?
I also have to take issue with those who try to disguise their bigotry, like when they say something like “I’m against gay marriage and gay rights because I disagree with the lifestyle, but I respect them as people” or “The bible is against homosexuality, and as a Christian, I must follow”.
I can’t stand those who try to deny or disguise their bigotries and hatreds. If you can’t stand homosexuals, and homosexuality itself, why not just admit it? At least admitting it would be more honest. Sheesh!
Red Dead Ryan…yes the Bible is against homosexuality….and yes I am being HONEST when I say that I respect their choices..to respect doesn’t mean to agree with them…that is what they choose to believe in or live by…I am just expressing my thoughts on this thread like everyone else…didn’t realize I would get such interesting responses…will wonders never cease…!!!!
@191 GG
As a conservative (though not particularly religious), I find very few Republicans think being gay is a choice. However, actually engaging in homosexual acts is, of course. I have found Christians don’t hate gays or think they are an abomination. What they hate is the “sin” of engaging in the biblically condemned “act”.
Regardless, gay isn’t choice, or even a mental illness. It’s likely a genetic birth defect.
That being the case, would you deny someone who didn’t want to be gay the opportunity for treatment that could cure it?
Or will the liberal response be “too bad, that’s how God made you!”
Love the sinner hate the sin…..
well I’m done for the nite….good nite all…..
All I’ll say about the Bible right now is that it is the collected writings of many different humans, written in different centuries and reflects many different attitudes. That explains its many contradictions and outright errors.
If you study the historicity of the Bible, you’ll see that it is not a human document, and not divine in the least. This is not an opinion, it is the result of years of study, and not years of listening to other people (ministers, etc.) tell me how to think.
I decided I was capable enough to explore the Bible for myself, and have done so for three decades now. It is a book, written by some inspired people, but not divinely inspired. An unchallenged mind will use it to support their own prejudices rather than explore the truth.
It is a useless debate for the most part. Once you are mired in dogma and theology, it is a difficult swim to the surface for light. Most chose not to take it because it’s too frightening of a journey.
Don’t get me wrong, I believe wholeheartedly in God. I just don’t believe any existing religion even comes close to comprehending the Almighty.
I don’t want to see any more talk here about any group of people being “defective”, “sinners” or “morally wrong” etc. That is not acceptable and I consider it trolling.
No I will not tolerate that kind of intolerance here. That is my version of IDIC.
And in general I dont like seeing people draw lines between who are good and bad, right and wrong, etc. …unless it is about Star Trek of course.
Agree completely with Antony here folks — this fire and brimstone right versus wrong stuff here on gays is just nonssense. And it’s embarassing to see these kind of comments on a Trek board.
The problem here is that we are really dealing with two different issues. One is the issue of homosexuality and the other is bullying. Zachary Quinto was standing up for teenagers who are bullied because they are gay.
When will anyone stand up to any kind of bullying per se? Will Zach and/or the LGBT people? Will Christians? Will Democrats? Republicans? Independents? Others? Could they all come out with one loud, coherent voice against the (vicious) bullying from one or more persons against others? That’s the real issue here.
Unfortunately, teen bullying is becoming more of a problem everywhere, in NZ as well, especially text bullying.
I had to delete some posts. I said stop with the religious stuff (on both sides). This isn’t the place for that. I dont want to have to ban people who keep the argument going.
@202. Great points, Keachick. I do agree with you and with Red Shirt Diaries that the real issue here that is being missed is bullying itself. You know, I would not be shocked to hear to learn if the precent of gay teens being bullied was about equal to the percent of gay teens in general…for example, say 3% of teens are gay, then we find at 3% of kids being bullied were gay — that would not surprise me. But perhaps because of the media attention though to the speficity of gay kids being bullied, it gets special treatment — and this could very well be doing a major diservice to the real issue here — general bullying of all kinds of teens, including gay teens, nerds, minority teens, overweight teens, small teens, etc. etc. etc. There very well could be no real special gay issue here at all — gays are likley just another in the long line of targets for bullies to terrorize.
I said this once before on a similar thread. Sad that I have to repeat it. Based on some of the responses on here about “genetic birth defects,” “lifestyle choices,” “sinners,” “love the sinner hate the sin,” etc., I find myself sort of ashamed to be a Star Trek fan. I hope that the real 23rd century and beyond is a lot more accepting of differences than this current century. Oh to live in a world where sexual orientation, skin color, religious beliefs, political affiliations, etc are no longer an issue. Can’t we just let people be people, instead of moralizing at every turn?
Good for you, Zach! I only think higher of you now! :) You are a remarkable individual and I am SO proud of you!
To suggests that homosexuality’s no big deal and doesn’t warrant public address is to turn a blind eye while states are amending constitutions to ban gay marriage and kids are committing suicide. Gay kids need positive, public role models as much as black Americans have needed them.
Would every black American who made a public stand against the status quo have done better to sit down and let change meander to fruition?
If you think Quinto’s outing will distract him from roles, I suggest he may have found the constant gossip, speculation, and need to be secretive while in the public eye more distracting.
Quinto had every reason to come out. He’s been an advocate for gay rights, made a recording telling gay kids “It gets better,” without confirming that he’d shared their experience; no, he shouldn’t have had to, but it makes sense that he would feel more authentic having done so.
What is hardly worth mention is that any of this is an inconvenience in fandom. Also, ZQ’s sexuality doesn’t disqualify him to play a half-human hetero. any more than his red blood disqualifies him to play a Vulcan.
@207. The way the world really changes is when all of us in our daily lives stand against hatred, bullying and discrimation. That is a lot more powerful than the Holloywood elite doing self-congratulatory press conferences.
You and I can really change things — don’t count on Hollywood and the government to change the world around you. It is our personal responsibility to change the world.
my religion says Deep Space Nine was the best trek, oh, and good for Zach
@ 208. MJ – October 18, 2011
I might agree, MJ, that it’s “our personal responsibility to change the world,” but are you suggesting that Quinto should leave it to us and not participate in a way that makes sense to him? I get the impression the territory is more familiar to him, and I think he can make a bigger difference, here, than I can. In any case, should we judge anyone who is making the effort?
Captain Kathryn; I’m not Christian (but I’ve been known to preach:) and I bristle when people suggest that those who don’t believe in (contradictory and questionable) ’sacred texts’ lack morals, but if you’ve made an offensive post, I missed it.
I find so much of what’s fun about this forum is exploring other people’s views. Let’s not wish people out of the Trek universe because their views differ from ours or we deem them lacking ‘proper’ Trekkie attitudes. Kirk and crew were explorers seeking not to surround themselves with their ilk, but to consort with the unfamiliar. They respected all whom they encountered.
@204: MJ, you wondered about the percentages. I recently saw a report claim that while bullying is common in middle school, by high school it drops off somewhat dramatically. I think the overall number of kids bullied in high school was around 34% or less, while it was 90% for gay teens in high school.
#212 Those are pretty staggering figures. I think to get rid of bullying requires a collective effort by those who do not have access to a microphone and by those who do, like Zachary Quinto.
I have just heard on the TV news, not two minutes ago, that a teenager was arrested for stabbing a gay off-duty police officer in South Auckland, which is where I live. Don’t know any more details but it appears to be a hate-crime. Crazy stuff.
Quinto, Hero.
(That said, I do have a problem with one of his lifestyle choices: he’s such an obvious hipster, and I think that sets a bad example for … well … the species as a whole. And any other species. Ever.)
But the gay thing, that’s cool.
#196: “most likely a birth defect” ?????
What???!!!! Are you a doctor, Odkin? And you arrived at that little conclusion, how????
Please, spare me your observations. That is nearly as bad as the “gay is a sin” statements.
Bravo!
For those who just cannot help themselves but to throw Biblical quotes about , I just don’t get it. The Bible was written by man, man with the understanding of the world at his time.
If man knew about DNA and the science we know today, I might give the Bible a little more credence than I do.
As is, I can place no more faith in a book written BY MAN 2,000 years ago than I would a science text books written in the 1960s. I’m sorry, but all you folk who cling to a 2,000 year old book like it was written yesterday appalls me.
For those of you throw around words like “lifestyle choices” or “they chose to be” really need to look at yourself and ask you what exactly your words mean (they smack of bigotry and ignorance in my book) and ask how you chose your heterosexuality.
Our understanding of man and medical science has skyrocketed since the Bible was written. But then, I suspect you don’t believe in science either.
The jury may be out on the inherent roots of one’s homosexuality, but I sincerely doubt you’ll find any doctors or scientists of any repute that have any tolerance for choice as ” a cause.”
Personally, being gay is a fact of life. It is an inherent part of one’s being. It is not for people to agree with or disagree with (just because you disagree with it does not make it go away). It is not for you to judge over (if you really believe in the Bible or the words of Jesus, you must believe in the “judge not lest you be judge.” If you truly believe in the Bible, then you must also remember that. according to the Bible, we are all created in God’s image, that would include gay people. If God feels gays are in violation of his (or her) laws, God will deal with it. It is not your place to do so here on Earth.
Personally (again), I believe in God, but not much of the Bible nor any organized religion, so please spare me any rebuttals. It’s a lost cause on your part.
Back to the subject of this thread, however: Mr. Quinto came out to address the issues of living his life with honestly and integrity. We all should applaud that! He also came out to honor a young man who committed suicide due to bullying. I definitely can appreciate that. I”ve worked with gay teens for more than 20 years and find they need all the support they can get.
Thank you, Mr. Quinto… and thank you Anthony, for letting this thread continue (even knowing what a headache it is every time this subject is breached in here, it is worthwhile to see that there is a lot of support out there for gay and lesbians in our society… now, if we could just get more youth to realize this before trying to resolve a temporary issue with a permanent problem).
What is a hipster and why is it such a bad lifestyle choice?
I kinda thought he was.
Interracial, Alien, Homosexual lifestyles, black to red matter, this alternate timeline is getting too difficult to follow Bob, I blame you for this :)
# 57 LOL! Poor Christine!
Just to affirm what exactly Zachary Quinto felt so strongly about concerning Jamey Rodemeyer: This young man was bullied for years, relentlessly, by a large group of boys. He shared his struggles with his family, friends and school administrators, choosing not to suffer in silence (as many bullied teens do). He reportedly was an out-going, extremely bright young man whose primary support system was girls his own age. On one occasion, after talking with the school counselor, he told his parents that her advice was “not to hang around with girls so much” (not surprisingly, the bullies were never sanctioned by school administration).
The day of Jamey’s memorial service happened to coincide with a school dance, which his 16-year-old sister attended, as the dance was being held in honor of him. A song by Lady GaGa was played, and announced as being in honor of him. As the song played, the group of bullies chanted, “better off dead” for several minutes before finally being stopped. School administrators, when asked about the circumstances which led to Jamey’s suicide and the incident at the dance, simply reply that they are “looking into it”.
To those of us on this board who feel a homosexual person should “keep it in the bedroom” as to their sexual orientation, or state that they do not want it to be “shoved in their face”, or feel that all young people are bullied at some point in their lives: What if the shoe were on the other foot? What if hetersexuality was not “the norm” and you were being maliciously harrassed by homosexual schoolmates DAY AFTER DAY, always aware that when you get up in the morning to go to school, you would be the target of verbal, sometimes physical, slings and arrows concerning your sexual orientation?
This is why, apparently, Zachary Quinto felt the need to mention his own sexual orientation during the already scheduled interviews he did. I believe this situation touched him so profoundly that he felt a kinship to Jamey and wanted to reach out in this way to other teenagers in the same predictament. If his decision to speak out on this matter helps even one suffering teenager, it will be well worth it.
224. Yes. What if you grew up hearing, in real life and in the media, that you’re a biological mistake, an aberration, in the same league as pedophiles, a danger to children and families, hated by God and that you deserve to die from AIDs, and shouldn’t exist in the open, or, even, at all.
What if you grew up believing those things, because you constantly hear them, and then realize that the attractions you feel mean you might be one of the generates everybody (including you) have been talking about?
What if you grew up surrounded by family, and marriages, and kids, and oicket fences and wanted all that too, like everyone you grew up with but were told that you can’t, because you having those things would somehow
diminish them for everybody else?
What if it were okay to discriminate against you because of who you were attracted to (other people like you); okay to deny you housing, jobs and relationships; okay to beat you up because you’re too obvious about not being like everybody else; okay to threaten you and even kill you because, heck, you were flaunting your differences in front of other people?
@212 “I think the overall number of kids bullied in high school was around 34% or less, while it was 90% for gay teens in high school.”
Thanks NCM for the stats. If those numbers are good, then, yes, I would agree that bullying of gays is more systematic than gathering of other kids and warrants special attention.
Based on having this real data, I am changing my opininon on this and agree that people in the public eye like Quinto should be speaking out on this.
Sorry, but it is hard these days to sort through what is media hype and what is really going in the world sometimes — your statistics are what I really needed here to change my mind — thanks!
PS. I’m hoping my comment isn’t deleted. I suspect it will be. But i agree with Quinto and Denise (and a bunch of others), fully.
170. You’re saying no one should force you to accept anyone… So, what do you want to do that being respectful would prevent? Sharing your views? Telling gay people that you think they’re immoral and wrong? Again, I don’t understand what this has to do with you or your beliefs. How does stopping bullying, of any kind, infringe on your rights? All people deserve to be treated with respect, even if you don’t agree with them.
It’s very tempting, and natural, to fit the world in to boxes of right and wrong, especially when everything you’re doing is right. But, why do your views have to apply to other people when their choices don’t affect you (as, in… murder and rape is wrong because it’s one person violating, or eliminating, the rights of another.). How does being asked to treat all people with respect and civility violate your rights?
179
You’re a bigot and that makes you a sorry excuse for a human being.
Way to go, Zach!
I actually heard about this through George Takei’s twitter, haha.
170
You’re also a bigot who, because of your beliefs, has no business being a Star Trek fan.
Man this thread is way too intense.
Glad to hear Quinto came out. He’s a great actor – his personal lifestyle has nothing to do with the characters he plays, and why in this day and age does anyone care. Live and let live.
On a more serious note – Is he going to drop Uhura as his love interest in the next movie, and hook up with Kirk?
That would be the definition of “to boldly go”
Sorry for that. I was just trying to add a little levity to this discourse.
Intolerance goes both ways CoffeeProf. You’re a prime example.
coffeeprof….you sound like more of a bigot than myself, as you call me….you sound like you have no tolerance for people who believe or opine differently than you….not me, but you are a sorry example of a human being..not once did I call anyone a destructive name nor even thought of calling anyone names that are uncalled for….but you sound really pathetic indeed….I don’t even believe you read my posts at all..or if you did you just read parts that you wanted to critic me on to justify your intolerance towards my views…….so sad…oh and I have been a trekkie since 1966 and I know exactly what roddenberry was trying to do…I have no problem at all with the characters …..and Anthony left in your post to call me a sorry human being…sheesh….
Can’t we all just get along
Captain Kathryn
I think what is bothering most of the people on this site about you is your use of multiple periods in all of your sentences……………………
Trek on.
#236…………………………LOL…love it…..we all have our quirks, don’t we?????….it is what makes us human……………………………………………..
ZQ seems to be a lovely man and i would be honoured to buy him a pint…he has to get the next round in of course.
keep on trekkin’
237
Just call me Captain Quirk then because I have many – being a Trek fan is one of them.
I too recall the original series when it was first on. I was 7 yrs old, and caught glimpses of it when it was on the TV before I went to bed. Ive been hooked ever since.
The intolerance of others on here has always amazed me. I have no religious belief other than I don’t believe in any, but I accept yours, and anyone elses.
Trek on sister.
I was a bit older than you in ‘66 , and had a big crush on Captain Kirk….I loved the show because it wasn’t a typical silly sci fi show, but was such an intelligent show…it made science much more tolerable for me in school…ha…when it got cancelled, I think after the second season, I was one of those ‘trekkies’ who wrote to NBC to keep the show on….amazing what the power of the voice can do…
I love older Trek fans. They are much more – “experienced”
Sorry , my above statement was directed to #239 Krik Semaj…
Well, we aren’t as naive as these ‘youngsters’ think we are….lol..I have always been a big Trek fan ….but never could get into DS9…my brother-in-law loved DS9 , but it just never clicked with me…..
Agreed. I never figured out how you could trek on a space staion – other than a long walk down a corridor.
The above comment was provided by Picard. You can tell because he has the T in station.
Earl Grey of course. Hot.
not being able to ‘trek’ on DS9, never thought of that….it is interesting note that on Voyager they make mention of DS9 & Enterprise…they even had Commander Riker appear on Voyager…I really like it when we interweave the other Trek shows and even mentioning Kirk and Spock to keep continuity in the stories…When ‘Q’ would show up even would always talk about ‘Jean Luc’ to Janeway…just thought I’d throw that in….
I’m leaving for the day.
Catch you sometime on another thread. We’ve probably hijacked this one long enough, and are sure to be incurring the wrath of some of the angrier elements over here.
YES…talk to you later Krik…gotta go too…
I said this earlier, but it obviously bears repeating:
I’m glad that ZQ is getting an outpouring of support from the Trek family. It’s refreshing to see even from some those who don’t necessarily agree with the appropriateness of a gay lifestyle give their love and support to ZQ. Sadly, it’s unacceptible that we live in a world where anyone who says “I don’t support gay marriage” is automatically branded as a bigot or homophobe.
We won’t truly achieve Roddenberry’s concept of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations until both examples above are accepted and respected, whether or not one agrees with them.
Coffee Pot
Warning for flaming.
I want all the sniping to stop. No more divisive stuff. I dont have time to deal with this so I will just have to close the thread if it continues and/or start banning people.
Thank you Anthony!
And yes, I would think as STAR TREK fans, everyone here is 100% accepting of others and that diversity should BRING the world together, not divides us!
I’m African-American and my grandparents marched with Martin Luther King marched on the Washington mall so we can have a better place in this world. Not just for blacks folks, but for EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still remember meeting him in Australia, where I was living at the time, at was at the Star Trek premiere and saw the movie. Got to meet him for a few minutes. Couldnt meet a nicer guy! Thank you Quinto for having the courage just to say who you really are! Its sad in 2011, there are still people who have to hide simply being who they are. But the world is always changing!
Anyway I’m proud of you and now let’s focus on more important things and get that Trek sequel going, shall we! ;)
@249. RobertaLincoln;
I agree with you, mostly; It’d be inappropriate for me to judge someone who believes it’s morally wrong for same-sex couples to wed, but I take exception to people who act to prevent other consenting adults from making that choice for themselves.
Those who believe it’s wrong shouldn’t do it; but to legislate one’s religious beliefs into the lives of other consenting adults who do not share those beliefs is an affront.
@250: Anthony, I hope you won’t close the thread. There is good discourse here, with some people willing to consider things anew – I have to go do some research to be sure the info. I posted is worthy of MJ’s change of heart (@226), for example.
What’s the point of a forum if not to engage people, allow them to express their views (within reasonable boundaries), and to encourage those willing to broaden their view (perhaps a minority in any context) to do so?
This isn’t Trek, at the moment, but the story wasn’t about Trek.
I respect the time issue. You’ve given fair warning. Eject those who beg for it.
@226 MJ: Thought I owed it to you to be more certain, myself, of the figures I posted. Found tons of info on the Internet. The numbers vary, but consistently paint a bleak picture. There’s bullying and then there’s pervasive, hatred-born bullying. I can’t post here the things kids posted on the latest victim’s social networking site – nauseating.
One study found GBLT teens are subjected to anti-gay slurs every 14 minutes (that’s 2 public humiliations between each class). They also have much greater fear for their safety.
@187, Kathryn
Wow, take a deep breath, or maybe a reading comprehension course!
I re-read my post that you responded to, #182. Can you point out for me examples of my “negative and violent anger”? Or my hatred? Or my cussing? Or being full of hate? Or not a happy person? Geez! As someone else pointed out earlier there seems to be a lot of projecting going on in your case.
As for you and your brother, I wish you both the best. I hope your relationship is as good as you say it is. I hope he and his lover are welcomed in your house when he visits. But you have to realize that in the back of his mind he will never forget that you condemn him and consider him immoral, and by default inferior to you, considering your high moral standards, Believe me, he knows and feels it.
Finally, how’s this for an example of anger and hatred (not to mention judgemental and condescending):
” I am one of those people who does believe that being gay is a choice….it is a chosen lifestyle and if one chooses to live that lifestye choice then so be it…we live in a very permissive world and unfortunately we will reap what we have sown….”
Your quote. In other words, God hates you, you’re going to hell. I bet your brother loves hearing that from you, if you’ve ever had the guts to say it to his face rather than post it on an anonymous message board.
What does “permissive society” mean exactly? It is a term used quite a lot by conservative and/or religious individuals and is seen as bad.
“Permissive” means to permit, to allow, to sanction? However, why should people need permission in the first place to be who they are?
The fact is that there are laws that do NOT permit citizens to do certain things, basically because the actions cause genuine, obvious harm to others. These laws apply to all citizens (or should) irrespective of their race, religion, sex and sexual orientation and the same penalties applied to all. Physical and/or emotional bullying should be deemed a crime, or at least a misdemeanour (if that’s the right word), but I get the impression that there is simply no actual law against bullying. It seems strange. It almost seems like some school authorities are condoning this bad behaviour.
Zach Quinto is…Takei?!
I’m sorry, I just had to.
Honestly, I did not see this coming. He just does not seem like a gay man to me.
On another note…
As much heat as I’m going to receive for this, @55 Odkin:
I completely agree. Coming out in Hollywood is really not a bold move at all. Rather a safe one, actually. However, if someone in Hollywood was to come out and say he was NOT gay and did NOT approve of gay rights…well then, lets go stone him, shall we?
So much for IDIC in that area…
257. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup – But coming out against gay rights is the equivalent of being against civil rights for African Americans in the 60s. It’s outright prejudice. That’s why we don’t go all IDIC over people who oppose gay right.
You might as well say that African-descended folk shouldn’t be allowed to marry. I wonder how well that would go over these days. No difference. You just don’t see that, because the bigot never thinks he is a bigot.
George Wallace certainly didn’t when he barred the entrance of two black students to a white university.
No difference. None at all.
PS.
IDIC is about tolerating differences. It’s not about barring those who are different from having the same rights we have. You misinterpret IDIC at the core level. Your argument is invalid.
OK, didn’t really want to come back here. Kind of an accident. Too much crass ignorance and intolerance here for me. As I am intolerant of intolerance, I’m leaving.
Thanks for cleaning up the comments Anthony- I guess you were prepared for this one lol
Live Long and Fabulous.
I kind of guessed you might be, and couldn’t care less that you are. I hope that one day, the need to “come out” is completely unnecessary, because people finally learn how to accept, respect, show compassion and love for everyone. Variety is the spice of life, and thank God for our gay friends!
Not sure what all the hoohah is about. Was it not obvious that ZQ is gay?
He didn’t hide it inside the community, but the other – random people did not know for sure/were denying it with all their might. Even going as far as to attack you if you only suggest Quinto is closeted. It is important for lgbt(q) kids and young adults to have people they can look up to out in the open + anything that helps bring down stereotypes and gives you an opening for talk about the issues is a good move. The level of abuse people go through just because of ignorance and sense of entitlement that the top of the pyramid has is astounding.
@ 262. Iva – October 20, 2011
“Live Long and Fabulous.”
LOL! Love it!
More seriously, I would to see a gay Vulcan in Trek. I’ve thought about this before. How would “logical” Vulcan culture now deal with this. Perhaps the new masculine gay male character that Mr. Orci is going to write could be the new Vulcan security chief who just happens to be gay but is impregnating Vulcan females in order to continue the species and doesn’t approve of Spock’s relationship with Uhura!
“”"”"”"”"”"LOL! Love it!
More seriously, I would to see a gay Vulcan in Trek. I’ve thought about this before. How would “logical” Vulcan culture now deal with this. “”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”"”
Probably something like this, as written by Gene, about Kirk and Spock – “Theirs had been the touching of two minds which the old poets of Spock’s home planet had proclaimed as superior even to the wild physical love which affected Vulcans every seventh year during pon farr.” (TMP)
Vulcans, including Spock(TOS) , are telepaths(TOS) , the bonds of marriage they create are mental bonds(TOS) . Mental compability is needed. (TOS) Kirk and Spock have one that goes beyond that (TMP). To turn deny the existence of your *t’hy’la (TMP), with whom you already share a mental link that not even years of practicing for kolinahr can break or weaken (TMP) is illogical.
*Vulcan for friend, brother and lover, Gene had in his interviews explained the concept is formed on the Greek ideal.
Why are you warning me? They should be banned on this site for bigotry. If you’re going to make bigoted statements, shouldn’t you get called out?
‘28. VOODOO – October 17, 2011
I would like to add that I am more than a little disturbed that one this and a couple of other Star Trek boards by some of the negative comments(see posts 11 + 13) I have seen. One would think that Star Trek fans would welcome diversity. Whatever happended to IDIC?’——–
That’s because you’re dealing with a ‘new’ version of star trek fandom (Or shall i say fandumb) which emerged with the 2009 film. That’s right Bob Orci and JJ abbrams are responsible for bringing testosterone ridden cretins into the trek world for better or worse (in this case, for the worst).
Before this 2009 film emerged I do not remember encountered much homophobia in the trek community. It’s because this last movie was so dumbed down and full of DHT (testosterone biproduct) that these new fans have mistaken trek for something else. Obviously one must then question of the makers of trek 2009 didn’t mistake it for something else. Oh right, they did, starwars!
Now we’re getting somewhere. See, I have encountered homophobia in the starwars community a few times, not saying it’s a reflection of the whole community but it was always more there than in the trek world. There you have it, a fitting explanation for this stupidity.
I knew it!!
Funny addendum to the ZQ story.
PS: Is his surname pronounced “KEEN-toe?”
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/gay-abc-news-anchor-comes-while-talking-star-161335588.html
Is this a good time to bring up the “Amok Time” sexual allegory thing? It was written by Theodore Sturgeon after all. Heeelloooo? Is this thing on???
Yea, point that out on a Trek-forum and all hell breaks loose. ;p
#245. Krik Semaj – October 19, 2011
Well, technically trek refers especially to exploring by foot. So, the only thing that comes close to resolving your quandary would be a stargate.
I resolved the matter by supposing that the important aspect of the “trek” is the exploring; much as an astronomer can do with a telescope and an astrophysicist with remote controlled robotic apparatuses.
So if you can accept that astronomers are performing a “star trek” when they do their thing then DS9 fits right in.
I don’t think homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. It is easier to be straight, because of prejudices against gays among many people and often not equal rights. And it is also not possible for homosexual pairs to get biological children with each other, which a lot of humans like to have.
There are also a lot of countries with high penalties for homosexuals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory
Gays can even expect a life in prison or the death penalty in some countries, if they are caught! There are only very few countries at all on this world, where homosexuals have the same rights as heterosexuals.
So why should anyone choose this, especially in countries with high penalties for gays? It just makes no sense. I think no one choose to be gay. It is just something which happens somehow. Maybe there are biological reasons? Maybe it is influenced by experiences during ones childhood? I have no idea, but I am at least sure people don’t sit down and think one day: “Should I CHOOSE to be gay or straight?” and then make the first choice. I think people have no choice, when it comes to what gender they find attractive.
Alright, Schmanon. Did I say I was against gay rights? No, I did not. Let people be gay if they want to be. I believe in IDIC just as much as anyone. Excuse me if my bigotry caused you to log onto this site again…so very sorry.
Let me give a different example if my first didn’t fly. If someone in Hollywood were to “come out” and announce that he were say…a Christian and believed in Christ, and rejected every other God, well then, can we stone him now?
#275.
“If someone in Hollywood were to “come out” and announce that he were say…a Christian and believed in Christ, and rejected every other God, well then, can we stone him now?”
He’d be called a hypocrite. Maybe even a bigot, since he’s putting down other people’s beliefs all the while touting his own God. One cannot dismiss other Gods while flaunting their own. Especially considering that nobody’s God has ever been proven to exist.
Red Dead Ryan:
You do not make any sense. Christianity is the belief in one God, and the rejection of all other gods. Other religions have their own god or set of gods to worship. If you’re not an athiest, what are you going to do? You can’t believe in every single god or religion.
Being a Christian or being monotheistic does not mean “putting down other beliefs all the while touting his own God”. It means only believing in one.
There are Christian/Buddhists. I tend to see myself as being a Christian/Buddhist. I do get annoyed when people knock religion out of hand. Much of the Bible is irrelevant for today and not particularly pleasant to read, particularly a lot of the Old Testament. Geez, they were a mean, bloodthirsty lot. However, there are some real gems which can’t and shouldn’t be ignored. The ideas presented there are as relevant and good today as they ever were.
Much of the Buddhist texts (of which there are a lot more) are similar to the Bible, although not necessarily as bloodthirsty, more abstruse, pedantic, longwinded – still, there are also some real gems to be found, which need to be treasured for the finest gold that they are.
Anyway, that’s how I see, what are to me spiritually, the most real and important religions.
Wow, some unintentionally entertaining comments here since I posted here the other day!
Thank god I’m and aethiest!
Anyway, just to clarify that I’ve no problem with ‘gay’ actors or actresses playing ‘heterosexual’ characters…but rather that I personally will have a difficulty buying any further scenes of Zachary continuing to ‘canoodle’ with Zoe onscreen now that I know his heart isn’t in it!
Ah well, it’s an ‘alternative’ timeline anyone I guess…
257. Uh, except it’s not. Very few actors are out, but, yes, the ones doing it have usually done pretty well for themselves and are high enough profile that, by the time they come out, their careers seem to be gay-proof. But then you hear from others, like Rupert Everett, who say that coming out ruined their careers.
I don’t know.
I do wish that commentary was uncensored on here — it would be nice to see what we’re (all of us here) actually up against.
But even the joke comments, like ‘i’m coming out as heterosexual,’ ‘i’m coming out as a transgendered lizard’ kind of make me sad. Yes, it shouldn’t matter. But it still does, and that’s precisely why visibility is important, so kids grow up knowing that they have options like Successful Actor or Doctor, Wife and Mother and not just Guy Doomed to Loneliness, Drugs and Life in Retail or AIDs victim or Woman Doomed to Stay in Loveless Relationship with Husband to Avoid Eternity In Hell. Because, believe me, kids absorb these messages. And it’s pretty tough to see a future if you believe the rest of the world doesn’t want you to exist.
Should have read …anyway I guess. Damn my typos.
#279 – “but rather that I personally will have a difficulty buying any further scenes of Zachary continuing to ‘canoodle’ with Zoe onscreen now that I know his heart isn’t in it!”
Another person who can’t seem to separate fiction from non-fiction. Duh!!!
Of course, Zachary doesn’t have his “heart in it”, nor would it be wise for him, given that the actress Zoe is now married to her boyfriend of 10 years. The same applies to Zoe – REALITY
On the other hand, Spock could well have his heart very much in it when it comes to being with Uhura and the reverse being true as well, with the two of them canoodling being the result of them having “their hearts in it”. FICTION.
NEWSFLASH – Star Trek is a work of fiction and all the characters are fictional. The characters are played by ACTORS, who are paid to act, to pretend and make it convincing within the fictional world that their characters occupy…
GET IT NOW?
“Thank god I’m an atheist!”
A contradiction in terms, surely?
@282:
You have just shattered my dreams into tiny little pieces. :’(
#284 Oh dear. I’m sorry.
@ 252 NCM
The irony of people who say “I take exception to people who act to prevent other consenting adults from making that choice for themselves” is that those same people support gay marriage, but overwhelmingly oppose plural marriage or incestual marriage.
If a person supports gay marriage, that’s all well and good, but when that person uses the “consenting adults” line of reasoning, that person is more than likely a hypocrite.
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t oppose gay marriage at all. But I don’t pretend it’s a “civil rights” issue or a “consenting adults” issue, because it’s neither.
#286.
Plural marriages, or polygamy, have proven to be a form of subjagation and slavery, usually for the women involved. Statutory rape is very common, as well as isolation, physical and mental abuse. Incest often occurs too.
Incestual marriage can result in highly retarded children, since the genetic flaws of each sibling involved would be increased substantially.
These two forms of “love” are considered immoral because of the various physical, sexual, emotional and pschological dangers involved.
Two consenting adults of the same sex won’t face many of the same problems, because the mechanisms are different.
So I don’t understand how you can throw homosexuality in with incest and polygamy. The former is not a choice, while the latter two are, though to varying degrees.
#286: “Don’t get me wrong. I don’t oppose gay marriage at all. But I don’t pretend it’s a “civil rights” issue or a “consenting adults” issue, because it’s neither.”
Says you.
Whether it is a civil rights issue and not up to debate in your mind is really irrelevant.
Try telling this to anyone (in a same sex relationship) who wishes to marry… unless they are in one of the six states permitting them the right to marry it is entirely a question of civil rights.
Even in those six states, it is an unequal proposition. Until same sex marriage receive the same legal benefits–with the exact same attached legal ramifications, without having to resort to legal wrangling, it is entirely a civil rights issue.
Not a consenting adults issue? That is one of the most absurd statements I have ever heard. Are you implying that marriage in not consensual? Again, marriage is exactly that… at least in the United States.
#286: “Don’t get me wrong. I don’t oppose gay marriage at all. But I don’t pretend it’s a “civil rights” issue or a “consenting adults” issue, because it’s neither.”
Says you.
Whether it is a civil rights issue and not up to debate in your mind is really irrelevant.
Try telling this to anyone (in a same sex relationship) who wishes to marry… unless they are in one of the six states permitting them the right to marry it is entirely a question of civil rights.
Even in those six states, it is an unequal proposition. Until same sex marriage receive the same legal benefits–with the exact same attached legal ramifications, without having to resort to legal wrangling, it is entirely a civil rights issue.
Not a consenting adults issue? That is one of the most absurd statements I have ever heard. Are you implying that marriage in not consensual? Again, marriage is exactly that… at least in the United States.
Heterosexual monogamous marriage is legal, however polygamy, bigamy and pollyandry are not, irrespective of whether the parties involved give their consent or not. Incestual marriage (between mother/son, father/daughter, brother/sister) is not legal either, mainly because, in the case of incest, the health of any offspring that may result from such a union can be seriously impaired. Is that fair on the child?
I wonder if those in this world of infinite diversity will tolerate those who disagree with alternate lifestyles?.
286
GLBT rights are a civil rights issue. If you think otherwise, you are ignorant, wrong, and probably a bigot.
291. Qwho51 – October 22, 2011
I wonder if those in this world of infinite diversity will tolerate those who disagree with alternate lifestyles?.
Unfortunately, this “disagreement” is rooted in ignorance and hate, a deep seeded prejudice. IDIC is not about ignorance and hate. Your “argument” is flaccid.
If this were the 60s, I suppose you’d be disagreeing with interracial relationships, or maybe you do today. If your bigotry is rooted in the Bible, I wonder if you follow all the other stupid stuff it says, or if you’re just cherry picking to support your hate and ignorance. So typical of those uneducated in the authorship of the Bible.
If this was such an important issue, I wonder why Jesus never addressed it?
Whatever. You people obviously want to hate and want to find support for it in your holy book of ancient fiction and poetry. There is no “sin” in being gay. Such an idea is antiquated stupidity, reflecting a serious lack of intellectual sophistication.
And if your hate doesn’t germinate from the Bible, you should really be ashamed, because you have no excuse. All of you should be ashamed no matter your reasons. You need to look at the world with better, keener eyes instead of bleating your arrogant ignorance to the world. You look like fools.
What is “lifestyle”?
293
You make my point.
NOTHING was said about hate, or arrogance, or prejudice. You have filled all that in. You are in direct contradiction of what IDIC stands for. I have the right to disagree and you must honor me with that acceptance without filling in your homemade gaps with a diatribe of hate-filled attack. One can disagree without demonstrating hate, or arrogance, or prejudice. It is when one lashes out with retribution that it becomes those things you project.
#295.
You have no right quoting IDIC, no matter how you try to justify your bigotry.
It is not your place to agree/disagree with what other consenting adults do in their bedrooms, or who they are. It has no effect on you, so why do you feel the need to disagree?
To disagree with homosexuality is to deem it to be wrong. It might not be the norm for the human race in general, but it is natural, and merely a different kind of love.
IDIC means accepting and tolerating differences, not tolerating intolerances, discriminations, or bigotries.
You can convince yourself (I think you’ve already done so, in my opinion) that you aren’t a bigot, and that you are following the codes of IDIC, but you are on the wrong side of the fence.
Accept it and move on.
296
You, too, miss the point!
You must have tolerance for those who do not share
your views. “Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations” Do you “hate” me because I do not share YOUR beliefs. Are you a bigot because you do not like my belief?
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own or intolerant of people of different political views, ethnicity, race, class, religion, profession, sexuality or gender.
#297.
I do not hate you. I don’t even know you. I take exception to you “disagreeing” with homosexuality, since in no way does it affect your day-to-day life.
I mean, if you disagree with someone who is of African descent, or Asian, does that not make you a bigot? Of course it does. Why would it be any different if somebody was gay?
Homosexuality is just as natural as racial backgrounds. Just like race, no one has a choice in which gender they are interested in.
Disagreeing with homosexuality is just another way of saying you don’t like the fact that some people are gay. You are holding that against a group of people who have done nothing wrong, except in your own eyes.
You’re a bigot. No matter how you try to spin it. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself and everybody else otherwise.
intolerant – definition of intolerant :
in·tol·er·ant (n-t l r-nt) adj. Not tolerant, especially: a. Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs.
Thank you for the discussion.
Live Long and Prosper!
I had a gay relative who isn’t around to defend himself now, so I won’t out him here.
When his brother found out, they didn’t speak for ELEVEN YEARS.
When I found out (at 18) I denied it to myself– of course this was 1983 so there was still massive stigma and very little backup for non-straight people. But my relative was still the same great guy. I grew up and got over it.
I’m straight, but I’ve got no reason to be afraid of non-straight people. And fear is the source of hate.
I’d be much more afraid of someone who doesn’t love anybody– those are the ones who have the least to lose.
I support George, and Zach, and anyone else in the Trek community who is in and wants to come out.
He’s gay. So what? I long for the day when a persons’ orientation is not an issue.
I love it when people think intolerance against intolerance is as bad as their prejudice. That’s like saying it’s wrong to punish a crime.
Homophobes are no different than Hitler or the KKK or anyone like that, they’re equals at the core. Bet they wouldn’t condone their actions though would they? There’s a word for that: hypocrisy.
Eventually bigots and whatever they use to justify themselves will die out, we’ve seen it happen (mostly) to racial and gender bigotry, humanity will evolve.
speaking as a gay man and star trek fan i must say that i applaud mr quinto’s coming out. we need to help the young people struggling with this. my partner and i of 28 years (we have been together since we met in high school at the age of 17) hope that young people will see that the actor that portrays spock is openly gay and it will help them in their lives. i wish there had been such positive role models when i was a youngster watching (and falling in love) with star trek.
I guess this means more girl action for Kirk ! Kinda gonna make it hard to repopulate the Vulcan race this way but cest la vie. In vetro fertilazation ftw! More power to Quinto…a person should do whatever makes them comfortable.
#304 Quinto’s “coming out” was his own decision, not forced on him by the paparazzi/media nor by crazy fans or by others. That is what I applaud. He made a personal statement for his own reasons, in his own time, in his own way, in relation to something he felt deeply about.
What it also means that, though the actor Zachary Quinto is gay, he is still capable of playing of any kind of character convincingly, irrespective of what that CHARACTER’S sexual orientation might be. Sign of a true artist.
I would like to ask a question.
Is IDIC:
…The creation of art and beauty and/or an equal or superior lifeform through diversity of peoples?
or
…Acceptance of all peoples regardless of their beliefs, cultures, etc. ?
(diversity for diversity’s sake.)
@SAM #148.
Wonderful statements. I agree. I hope we can all get to a place where ‘isms’ do not exist openly or silently as they do in our society today.
I am glad that Zack took a stand as a role model.
Now, let’s get to what really matters: MORE SPOCK & UHURA LOVE!!! ;-)
@ Krik Samaj #244
That’s what the Defiant was for. Big DS9 fan here. ;-)
@ TBX-1138 #165
No it is not. I’m with Morgan (#155). Uhura and Spock is wonderful and it allows this Spock to further explore his human side and what it is like to have some romantic companionship in life with Nyota.
Uhura actually made Spock do the logical thing by putting her on the Enterprise. She was skilled and deserving enough to be there and his only reason for putting her on the Farragot (sp?) was to avoid the appearance of favoritism which ends up being the opposite of that. She wasn’t not initially assigned to the Enterprise because she didn’t measure up. She did. She corrected him for making the error of sending her to a commission that was below her qualifications. She also saved her own life in standing up for herself. Had she went on the Farragot, she would have been killed when that ship was destroyed.
To your second paragraph, that was true for TOS Spock. This is not TOS.
Another gay actor………..yawn……….
By the way, if the post isn’t pro gay or liberal in nature it gets deleted and the poster banned.
Oh well, that’s it for me. Gone off him now!
#312 from what I’ve seen it’s only the offensive/hate mongering ones that get deleted. No different than a racist comment, for example.
#313 spoken like a true teenage girl.
297. Nonsense. Although, yep, you have every right to believe what you want, even though it might not be true — creationism, the inferiority of certain groups of people, the rapture. But that doesn’t mean you’re being persecuted in discussions if someone disagrees with your opinion or points out that it’s factually incorrect. But, yeah, when your beliefs extend to what other people should and shouldn’t do, well, it gets trickier doesn’t it? But who’s stopping you from having that opinion? Or making you do things you don’t want to? Or preventing you from doing or saying things that you do want to?
But what your saying is that, according to the idea of IDIC (a worthy, undeveloped idea and a way for Roddenberry to make money sellong trinkets) that intolerance toward diversity is, in itself, a form of diversity and must be… what… allowed? Embraced? Well, who’s stopping it? Or, are you
saying that bullying or name calling is somehow a right? I don’t understand the problem.
Fine, you don’t like onions. Should you stop everyone else from eating onions, if they pose no provable harm to anyone else or society or the
environment?
Go ahead, think that homosexuality is gross, if that’s what you think. But, I don’t know, aren’t there better ways to make the world, or just your life, better than by complaining about a group of people.
But some things you think, well, they might be incorrect.
A guy walking down tehi street with his husband and their family likely isn’t trying
to undermine anyone else’s family. Or force anything on everyone else. They’re trying to pay the mortgage, to get
the kids to soccer while looking after ailing parents and working demanding jobs, like other families.
People take issue wiyh Gay Pride events. They’re there because, well, being gay was something that shamed and isolated people. To be gay was to be labelled a criminal or mentally I’ll, arrested, fired from your job, run out of the neighborhood, thrown out of your church and family, you name it. Pride events were aplace for people who lived in shame and secrecy to meet others like them, to protest arrests and police brutality, and to appear in public as gay in a world that wanted them hidden, sent to hell or dead… So they wouldn’t liven fear and shame for something that really is nobody else’s business. And somethinghhat really doesn’t matter. No one (sane) accuses organisers of St. patricks day parades of trying to convert the world to Irishness or of rubbing their Irishness in your face or stuffing it down your throat.
Funny how the hating bigots complain about us not wanting them here, and try to limply defend it with the concept of IDIC, as if WE are the ones who are discriminating. All I’ve been doing is defending an oppressed people against those who would continue to oppress them.
Just today there was another school beating of a gay student. This is a serious issue. Maybe you hateful, narrow minded bigots would be more comfortable at AICN, where belligerent, ignorant people abound. I certainly won’t miss you if you go away and never come back. But if you stay, and continue to display your hate, I won’t remain silent in the name of your warped IDIC concept. I will never suffer a fool in silence.
Good on him! :D People need role models out there who say it’s alright to be who you are. :)
Does the word homophobic prevent publishing on here?
I guess not.
@315. Jack in London
Amen! You expressed important points very well! (I will be borrowing your examples in future discussions–thank you.)
Being gay is simply that — being gay. It is not a choice. Think about it: Why would so many “choose” a state of being that subjects them to the kind of hate, social isolation, and threat to their lives that admitting homosexuality brings? They don’t. Many of them spend a good many years of their lives fighting their natural homosexual state through “therapy” or even marrying someone of the opposite sex, but in the end, their efforts do not work because they are not heterosexual.
I am straight, and I get that. I have gay friends, and I can’t imagine them being straight. It’s just not who they are.
Good for Zachary Quinto for coming out. He puts a face to the label “gay” so that it’s more difficult to de-humanize someone who carries that label. The consequences of de-humanization are clear in Post #316 (Canon Schmanon’s information about another gay student being beaten).
No one should have to deal with that. It’s wrong.
@Canon Schmanon – October 28, 2011 Funny how the hating bigots complain about us not wanting them here, and try to limply defend it with the concept of IDIC, as if WE are the ones who are discriminating.
Yes but are you defending free speech? Is free speech considered as free even when if offends?
I think that’s the jist of it.
Anyway with that said I’m proud of Zac. I can’t stand the new Trek but he’s a good guy. Did the right thing.
Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from disagreement. And, offending alone shouldn’t be grounds for limiting it, in certain forums. Personally, I’d prefer if Anthony wasn’t deleting and banning on here (and putting limits on discussions, saying they can’t become political, etc.). But, then again, i haven’t seen everything that’s been posted. But he has every right to do that, and a responsibility, i think, to keep it sane and away from random name-calling on here (and now I’m contradicting myself). Newspapers don’t publish every letter that comes in, and nobody has a right to be published in a newspaper or on somebody else’s blog or website. And, yeah, there are also limits imposed by libel laws etc. And I think people should have therightto say offensive things, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be consequences (ie. people getting pissed off, advertisers pulling ads etc.)
But, gosh, Sarah Palin said her rights to freedom of speech were being violated by folks who criticized what she was saying.
Yes, the right to freedom of speech and what speech cannot, should not be tolerated is a grey area. I do think that name-calling and expressing the wish to see another person harmed, or killed, is going below the bottom line to what is an acceptable use of those rights. For example, people expressing their desire to see JJ Abrams die or, as I read in a recent post on another site (not this), someone hoping that Abrams is ass-raped (yes, you read it right) because of what they thought he did to Star Trek, is going beyond the pale.
The reality of what such people advocate are nothing short of a serious, violent criminal acts on the part of the perpetrator(s) and I am not sure if allowing freedom to say/encourage this kind of thinking (criminality) is wise and beneficial.
Although, there is one thing in favour of freedom of speech in every aspect, is that it can reveal thinking and attitudes that may have been previously hidden and therefore gone unchallenged in any way.
Tricky stuff…
To Zachary and the whole gay community there’s something I want to tell all of you. In my spiritual understanding and my contact with those of God Source Consciousness, they speak of spiritual Ascension in that gay people have the greater opportunity to Ascend to higher planes of consciousness because you are all more balanced in male and female within your own energy. Where as heterosexuals are more separate due the whole male female relationships; macho, feminine. For personal enlightenment it is more attainable when being born gay the male and female being balanced within your energy. Don’t get me wrong, there are also some heterosexual men and women who are balanced as well in them, to those that have done the spiritual work or the lucky ones who were born balanced as well. Generally gay people have the spiritual upper hand so to speak over the masses to Ascension. Gay people be proud! You are having a hard time here on a fallen planet that is imbalanced run by the dark ones! God Source loves all of you, and admires all of your courage in coming to such a difficult planet.
John – I have heard by another authority that in fact the opposite is true. Being able to connect physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually with a person of the opposite sex allows the people to gain higher consciousness with greater ease, because two parts of a whole come together/merge, bringing about transcendence. It does not mean that such higher consciousness and transcendence cannot be attained by gay people, it is just that there is always a necessary physical component missing.
In regards to higher planes of consciousness I mean having the possibility of ascending to fourth and fifth dimensions unlike the fallen third dimension that we are all in. Third resonates at a lower frequency filled with fear and hatred. The current world we live in tells us we aren’t capable of spiritual ascension. Which is completely untrue and a control drama created by the fallen forces governing this planet.
Keachick what I’m speaking of is higher and longer lasting than any sexual encounter. Once you are in 4th and 5th dimension you are forever in a sexual orgasm being at one with God Source.
To get to the higher frequencies it takes hard work! Working out ones emotional problems. Yeah those hatreds and grudges, fears, insecurities, feelings of worthlessness and buying into the whole victim victimizer dramas that has control over this whole planet! The whole world is under a spell it’s time to wake it up!
When it comes to hate, I’ve seen it come from people of all different backgrounds: Gay and straight, different races and religions, and other different walks of life. I don’t think any one group has more of a monopoly when it comes to things like hate, grudges, fear, et cetera.
The good thing is that I haven’t seen any one group have a monopoly on love, generosity, compassion, and the desire for peace. My belief is that we’re all in this world together and that we’re all human beings and spiritual beings with the same capabilities in that sense.
We are all one. :-)
Don’t know why my name got a little twisted there, but oh well. I’m still me. ;-)
Spock/Uhura, that sounds nice and fluffy in theory but the truth is, you’re not really on the outside of it all. You’re just another person who’s defined what you see by your worldview. To say that no group has a monopoly on love, generosity, compassion and the desire for peace without defining those things is so easy (while assuming that there is no absolute truth) but when it comes to action and living by those words, it gets stick and absolute truths have to be defined. No offense but people like you, while seeming to love and accept all, really only still accept those who accept your worldview. In other words, you’re doing the very thing you reject in others.
Hello Joel1245
On the outside of what? You have not defined that for me, but I’ll assume that you might mean being gay perhaps? Either way, it doesn’t matter because there are tons of people that can be ‘minorities’ or ‘outcasts’ in many different situations, and many times for some of those groups, like gays, being on the outside can be rather brutal.
My personal view is that this is both wrong and sad because we are all human, so we are all on the ‘inside’ of that, and that’s what matters to me.
Please do not attempt to box me in by assuming what I will or will not accept. You do not know. No one is perfect, but I try to accept everyone is every way that is possible. I may not agree with everyone else’s beliefs or ways, but as long as they are not hurting anyone, then I can usually accept that that’s just them. What I cannot accept is things like genocide, torture, and other atrocities. People who do those things, I think, should be brought to justice. However, I could accept you feeling differently.
If there is, as you say, no absolute truth, then there is also no way to say that there is in fact any group of people that have any monopoly on things like love or hate. And even if there were by some chance a way to accurately say that, I mentioned that I was speaking about and from my own personal experiences.
One thing that can’t be discounted is that we are all in this world together. We are all human beings. We can all either try to contribute to making the world more harmonious (I know that sounds sappy, but I think it’s true) or we can contribute to tearing things apart. I know that not everyone is going to have the same definitions for what that means. It can mean something different to everyone, but that’s where you start a dialogue and try to work through whatever the issues are.
I do not expect you to have the same view, and I can accept that, as ‘unfluffy’ as it may be. :-)
Gay and lesbian people are naturally no more balanced in the male/female energy than heterosexual people. Most people, irrespective of their sexual orientation, seek companionship and union with another person through emotional, mental, spiritual and sexual intimacy. They seek more than what they can give to themselves, of themselves. Unless you are speaking of genuine chastity, celibacy, then any sexual union between two people is about complementing each other in some way or other. As for these higher dimensions, the sexual orientation of a person is irrelevant.
What sexual orientation he indentifies as doesn’t change the fact that he’s an awesome actor and portrays Spock so well. I couldn’t care less what he does off-screen.