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Comics Review: Star Trek Ongoing #4 December 29, 2011

by Alex Fletcher , Filed under: Comics,Review,Star Trek (2009 film),Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Apes! Damned dirty apes! Oh wait, wrong franchise! Stranded crewmembers, an uppity commissioner, and no Statue of Liberty. Seems like a Star Trek story to me! But apes? Just how do they play into it? Find out below in the TrekMovie review of the ongoing Star Trek comics issue #4 where the new movie crew finish up their take on "The Galileo Seven".

 

STAR TREK ONGOING #4 REVIEW

This fourth issue of IDW’s ongoing series presents the final half of "The Galileo Seven". For the first time in this series, the story has diverged significantly from the original. Is that a good thing? Hard to say for certain.

Picking up where the last issue left off, the Federation High Commissioner is insisting that Kirk abandon his crewmembers on the shuttle somewhere in the quasar-like formation, and Kirk insisting that they’re still alive. Some unspoken communication between Uhura and Kirk leads to her leaving the bridge and missing Kirk pulling a reverse of the "I’m taking command" scene.

This is the first time in the ongoing series that we actually get to see any really significant changes to the original stories. The first story had a slightly different denouement, but nothing major, but the ending of this story is vastly altered. The care that Kirk has for his crew shows in the way he stands up to the Commissioner and quotes regulations at him. His insistence on referring to Spock in the present tense and noting his qualities as an officer stand out too, as do his final actions in the story.


Kirk and Uhura share some weird eye staring. For a whole page. A. Whole. Page. (click to enlarge)

The fact that this issue has begun presenting what feels like an original story helps and gives hope that future issues will diverge even further, never mind the upcoming original tales expected in the new year. The best sequence in the entire issue is the way Kirk reacts to Commissioner Ferris and his demands. It shows an honest respect for his crew and his growth as a commanding officer. Tales along this line are what the original Trek was all about, and this series is finally starting to gain that footing.

Artists Stephen Molnar and Joe Phillips continue to work together, but their roles are more defined this go-around: Molnar provides the layouts, while Phillips provides the pencils and inks. The faces continue to be recognizable, but some of the exterior views of the shuttles look odd. As most of the issue takes place on the planet or onboard one of the ships, there isn’t much opportunity to give any large scale visuals, but the interiors do look sharp. The only really disappointing panel for me was the final one, as it looked too cartoonish for my tastes.


If it was made more clear what the penalties for violating the Prime Directive were, I’m sure more people would follow the rules… (click to enlarge)

John Rauch and Neil Uyetake continue to do the colors and letters, as they have for every issue in the series thus far. There isn’t much to do for either of them in this issue as the majority of the issue takes place inside a white Enterprise or shuttle Gallileo, with only a few panels on the planet. Uyetake uses four sound effects in the entire issue, but could have possibly used more during the early ape attack.

The primary cover is once again provided by Tim Bradstreet, in the same style as the prior covers, all based around the Starfleet delta. This is his darkest cover of the lot, almost feeling like it would suit a forensics TV series such as Bones. The alternate cover is done by Joe Corroney, and is another in his Starleet propaganda series. Not as fun as the one on the last issue, but the giant venus fly-traps are a nice touch. The retailer incentive covers feature a black and white version of Bradstreet’s main cover and a photo of Chekov.


Covers for "Star Trek Ongoing #4"
(click to enlarge)

Star Trek Ongoing #4 available now

Star Trek Ongoing #4 is available in comic stores now. You can order it from TFAW, along with picking up some back issues and pre-ordering future issues. (Note: Issues 1 & 2 are in their second printing).

Star Trek Ongoing
#1
Star Trek Ongoing
#2
Star Trek Ongoing
#3

$3.99

$3.99

$3.19
September October November
Star Trek Ongoing
#4
Star Trek Ongoing
#5
Star Trek Ongoing
#6

$3.19

$3.19

$3.19
December 28 January February

If you can wait, the first volume compiling the first individual issues will be released on March 13th. You can pre-order it at Amazon.

Comments

1. rm10019 - December 29, 2011

Just downloaded it! Now I’m just hoping they make a new Trek Animated series!

2. Jeyl - December 29, 2011

“Some unspoken communication between Uhura and Kirk leads to her leaving the bridge and missing Kirk pulling a reverse of the “I’m taking command” scene.”

I don’t understand…

3. MJ - December 29, 2011

What a pointless series. Besides this being a blatent cash-grab by Orci and company of the classic episode screenplays written by TOS great writers (who are not seeing a dime here!), we get weird changes and direction and bizarre scenes like the Kirk-Uhura stare-down.

Please join me in boycotting the purchase of these comics. Let’s send Orci and company a clear message that we want original stories and that we don’t support this morally bankrupt and ill-advised enterprise.

4. rm10019 - December 29, 2011

I will not join MJ, as I think his call is misguided and everyone is right to their opinion.

Please join me in reading these comics and enjoying a little bit of Trek fun each month.

The writers have now said that they are seeding some of these stories with clues and mentions of things that will come up in the next film, and I think that is fun .

No one is making or spending a fortune on these comics, and it is a pleasant way to revisit some of the classic Trek stories we all love.

5. TwilightTrek - December 29, 2011

I didn’t read the whole thing yet but I’m wondering what Kirk’s action to Uhura leaving her post is. I read it as he looked at her with a kind of “sorry, I know this hurts you but we have to leave,” not a “hey, take off in another shuttle craft and good luck” I mean why would Kirk be willing to allow another person he cares about to risk their life? One of the best scenes in the TOS takes place in “Who Mourns for Adonais?” When Scotty, being emotional, keeps going after Apollo (against Kirks orders) because Apollo is going after Scotty’s girl. In the episode Kirk flips out on Scotty tells himself to pull himself together and follow orders. After the verbal bitch-slap Kirk adds something that can translate to “besides I care about you, and don’t want to see you get hurt” I think it would be great if in this series Kirk had a moment like this with Uhura. Part of Kirks struggle was always the balance between being a strong leader and being lenient enough on people because he cared about them. I don’t know… from what I read so far this Kirk is more “I break the rules, so it’s cool if you break the rules, it’s all good bro.” Maybe I read this all the wrong way. Hopefully I did.

6. Phil - December 29, 2011

You know what would make this better? – shower scenes! Lots of them!

7. boborci - December 29, 2011

MJ. Cash grab?

I am paid exactly ZERO dollars for my participation in this series.

8. William Noetling - December 29, 2011

Um, bone to pick – this issue is NOT the first time the comic has diverged from the original series stories – the first story “Where No Man Has Gone Before” totally left out the Elizabeth Dehner (Sally Kellerman in the pilot) character – being relegated to a mere throw-away lie. Thus in the new Trek Verse she’s still alive and out there, while in the “Prime” universe she’s dead and buried along with Gary Mitchel and Kelso on Delta-Vega Part B.

9. OneBuckFilms - December 29, 2011

I haven’t read it either, except for the recent sample panels from the issue.

From the samples, I took Kirk and Uhura’s stare as being more of a mutual sense of dread as to the fate of Spock.

Uhura basically left the Bridge to grab the shuttle, and Kirk’s reactions was a WTF reaction to Uhura suddenly leaving.

Kirk is likely to give Uhura an official slap-on-the wrist, while privately thanking her for saving his friend’s life, if that is how it plays out.

10. Phil - December 29, 2011

@7 Perhaps, but anything that builds the brand makes for more successful selling of the products you do get paid for, which is good. I have no issues with you guys making as much money as you can from your efforts. Nothing wrong with that, and as you seem to enjoy what you do, thats a bonus.

11. Nomad313 - December 29, 2011

I’m totally enjoying this series. It’s just a little fun. I have no idea who gets what money or anything like that I just think it’s fun.
I think that Kirk looked at Uhura as if to say “I’m sorry we may have to leave Spock behind”. But She later thins “To heck with this!! I’m going out there!!” All on her own. I think he cares for both of them and is torn and gave her a look in that regard. Remember it’s Uhura who is in love with Spock and Kirk knows this. I don’t think Kirk’s feelings for Uhura ever got past the “flirt” stage. But I think he respects her greatly by now.

12. Phil - December 29, 2011

Uhura seemed to abandon her post frequently in Trek 09. Hopefully they will fix that problem in the next installment……

13. Chris Miles - December 29, 2011

@7 Bob Orci.

Sadly, Trolls seem to be popping up everywhere.

As I follow the Prime Directive, I choose not to interfere with MJ’s primitive thinking. Perhaps there is some red matter in his soup.

Keep up the good, watchful guidance. You seem to be the great bird for a bit- and you are doing a fine job.

14. Chris Miles - December 29, 2011

Oh, and while I’m at it-

@ 8 William Noetling

I am with you on the Dehner being missing thing (I’d noted it on another thread as a possible movie background theme)

Bones always got short shrift when it came to love interest(s) (Salt Monster and Yonada Chick aside) So it would be really cool if the new movie featured Bones’ ex being a key piece of new Trek Movie plot.

If I were writing Trek, and thought to myself- “what hasn’t been done….”
Bones’ backstory would be a natural go-to.

15. AJ - December 29, 2011

3/7

Wow. Had a good laugh.

I thought “Cowboys & Aliens” was the ‘cash-grab’ between Star Treks.

Or maybe a bit of “Hawaii Five-O” and “Fringe” for beer money.

MJ: Be nice to the writers/producers while they make your movie next year. We like having them around.

16. Weerd1 - December 29, 2011

I’ve been enjoying these. It’s the rare exception to the fact Paramount doesn’t seem to really want to push merchandise from Trek09. Embrace it folks, this is the new normal for Trek and I for one am delighted; any chance to go aboard the Enterprise…

Now, how do we get Jolene Blalock as T’Pring?

17. NCM - December 29, 2011

Is everyone forgetting that Bones, Kirk’s best friend, is on the lost shuttle with Spock? I took the Kirk/Uhura eyeball exchange as mutual recognition, shared sorrow; no objection to it. It was a well executed plot turning point, I thought.

I liked Uhura’s stand alone performance, but wanted it to be believable. A single-handed 11th hour rescue, executed within a matter of minutes(?) after more than 24 hours of failed multiple, coordinated, fully crewed shuttle rescue searches, and with recognition of better odds finding a needle in a haystack, is silly.

The ending makes it clear that the S/U romance is blooming; so unless we get a dramatic break-up between now and the sequel, I’m guessing that relationship will be in full swing on the big screen.

Still love the comic series. If it’s this Trek or no Trek, I’ll take what I can get and won’t begrudge anyone making money on it. I just wish the writers would write the stories they want to write while showing some respect for plausibility.

18. Royal Canadian Institute for the Mentally Insane - December 29, 2011

#3

Are you forgetting the whole IDIQ thing, MJ? Hardly pointless, it’s giving some view to the events of the Alternate Timeline. I’m enjoying what I’ve seen so far, so, no, I won’t be boycotting them. In fact, I’ve probably convinced about three or four people I know to give them a fair shake at this point.

To each his own, eh?

19. rm10019 - December 29, 2011

Thanks boborci, and good luck with the production!

20. Royal Canadian Institute for the Mentally Insane - December 29, 2011

And before I forget; thanks, Bob, for contributing to the series. As stated, I’m enjoying it. I’m finding myself buying comics again — something I haven’t done in a long while — and anticipating their arrival. Hell, they’re even drawing the new ENTERPRISE in such a way I don’t want to retch every time I see it. ;-)

Was hoping for the same thing (i.e., revisiting the stories) but figured on novel format; this is quite good. Wouldn’t say no to an animated series (a la CLONE WARS) either.

That said, the next TREK is shaping up exactly as I hoped: the crew will have had years of experience together under their belts. I was thinking that a few years at least should have passed when the next TREK begins on the screen, and was hoping for bits of dialog in the next film to hint at this event (e.g., one of the crew to mention certain incidents that clue us in to TOS stories having had occurred, if that makes sense).

21. Brett Campbell - December 29, 2011

The TOS episode was more dramatically effective in never showing the faces of these creatures. Certainly they did not look much like extras in “Beneath the Planet of the Apes”!

22. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - December 29, 2011

I for one am enjoying the Comics. I would love to see a new Animated Series with the new crew doing all of the Tos Eps.

23. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - December 29, 2011

Hey Bob Orci. How many more Comics do you plan on doing before the new movie comes out.

24. Ensign RedShirt - December 29, 2011

I had a lot of fun with the “Where No Man” adaptation, but this one was pretty lousy. I don’t feel we learn anything new here, other than Uhura appears to have no problem abandoning her post whenever her boyfriend is in trouble.

That said, I’m looking forward to “Operation:Annihilate”.

25. Battle-scarred Sciatica - December 29, 2011

who’s Bob Orci?

26. Basement Blogger - December 29, 2011

Not a fan of the reimagining of classic episodes with the new cast. I like to compare it to putting the cast of Twilight in Casablanca. I do like the idea of new stories in Star Trek comics with the new cast. The Vulcan comics look promising. I will wait till they bind all the issues together, I don’t go to the comic book store at all. I’m also looking forward to the video game and the new story there. Could it be a game as great as Mass Effect?

27. Gary - December 29, 2011

The http://img.trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/weird_innuendor_stare.jpg (Uhura/Kirk image) embiggen link doesn’t work. Please fix.

28. I'm Dead Jim! - December 29, 2011

All in all, I just think Anton Yeltsin’s Chekov needs a new tailor to make some better fitting pants. Or take a tip from TOS and tuck them into his boots.

29. I'm Dead Jim! - December 29, 2011

Oh, and Bob Orci, I think you at least should get some beer money for the use of your name. I think that’s fair. Thank you for being involved in Trek. Cheers!

30. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 29, 2011

I just want to be able to get hold of even one of the comics.

Yes, it could be a bit lame Uhura taking off in a shuttle to look for the missing crew, if the Enterprise, with all its sensors and speed, had not been able to find them. I guess Lt Uhura saw it as a last ditch attempt and she could no longer sit around, waiting and hoping. Rather impulsive though. It would be good to see how Captain Kirk deals with a communications officer leaving her post without being ordered to…

31. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 29, 2011

All the Starfleet uniforms need to have better tailors design and make them. The colours and materials are fine/great – the fittings not so good always.

32. boborci - December 29, 2011

23. Good question. I should ask Mike Johnson. Johnson? You lurking?

33. boborci - December 29, 2011

25. I am!

my partner alex and I wrote the first Trek, and then we teamed up with Lindelof to write and produce the next Star Trek.

34. MJ - December 29, 2011

Bob Orci, I apologize for being mistaken over your involvement in these. Whoever is cashing the checks here though should at least make an attempt to share what profits there are with the original series screenplay authors.

And for whoever is overseeing these comics, I do think it is a waste of creativity to do comics on the back of TOS episodes instead of new and original stories. I like TOS stories the way they are, and don’t need them tampered with. Besides, it is ludicrous to think the the Enterprise, with its current crew, given they are voyaging in different years and in different parts of space then the Enterprise of the prime timeline, would be running into the same “episodes” that they ran into in the original timeline. Red Matter is far more believable to me.

@13 “Sadly, Trolls seem to be popping up everywhere.”

You disagree with me. I get that. However, your simplistic response of name-calling against me undermines the credibility of your response. I have explained why I don’t like this concept for the comics; if you have an intelligent, reasoned contrary response beyond name-calling, I am all ears?

@15 “MJ: Be nice to the writers/producers while they make your movie next year. We like having them around.”

I stand corrected and apologized to Bob. There was an earlier article on this website that implied Bob had some control/lead role in these comics. I am very much looking forward to Bob’s work on the sequel.

35. MJ - December 29, 2011

@22 “I for one am enjoying the Comics. I would love to see a new Animated Series with the new crew doing all of the Tos Eps.”

Commodore, give me your agonizer. :-0

36. MJ - December 29, 2011

@26 “Not a fan of the reimagining of classic episodes with the new cast. I like to compare it to putting the cast of Twilight in Casablanca.”

BB, you are a man of good taste!

37. Brett Campbell - December 29, 2011

26 — ” I like to compare it to putting the cast of Twilight in Casablanca.”

Which is a lot scarier than anything “Twilight” itself has to offer!

38. P Technobabble - December 29, 2011

7. Bob Orci, you are a noble Trekkie.
PS: got to see you on “Prophets of Science Fiction” last night. Finally, an entire show devoted to sci-fi writers.

39. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 29, 2011

Oh my… I’m dying to see the evolution of Kirk/Pine in the movie….

:-) :-)

40. Red Dead Ryan - December 29, 2011

The idea of reimagining of TOS episodes in this new universe wouldn’t be so bad if only they would also do new stories. I mean, wasn’t the idea of a new timeline supposed to allow writers to break free from canon?

The new series seems more like a ” Beatles Greatest Hits Remixed and Remade” Collection by Britney Spears.

C’mon guys, “I dare you to do better!”

41. Jonathan Evans - December 29, 2011

Yeah man, mega cash grab. I’m sure Orci is in a smoke-filled room right now counting up the millions he makes from being an adviser for these comics. I can hear the maniacal laughter.

42. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 29, 2011

Mr. Bob Orci, Happy New Year… and please keep coming here when Trek sequel is “blasting” on the set in the coming months … :-) :-)

43. MJ - December 29, 2011

@40 “The idea of reimagining of TOS episodes in this new universe wouldn’t be so bad if only they would also do new stories. I mean, wasn’t the idea of a new timeline supposed to allow writers to break free from canon? The new series seems more like a ” Beatles Greatest Hits Remixed and Remade” Collection by Britney Spears. C’mon guys, “I dare you to do better!” ”

Well said! Be careful though RDR, or you might be labeled a troll for expressing such an outrageous opinion as this. :-)

44. Ralf Smith - December 29, 2011

Bob Orci:

It is awesome that you participate on this site! Trek is great and the fact that you give the fans a chance to interact with you is awesome.

Ralf Smith

45. Nony - December 29, 2011

I quite liked this one. The art was much smoother compared with the last issue, where it was obvious two artists with two different styles were sharing character duties. And I went ‘oh, SNAP’ when Kirk started quoting regulations (aka ‘sit down, shut up, I’m the captain here’). I appreciate it when the new Kirk is represented as smart and capable, because he is. I also thought the Spock/Uhura was very sweet, and the little interactions between the shuttle crew were nice (especially with Scotty and Bones).

I hope there’s a Bones-centered story in future. Do you know if there’s one planned, Bob (or any other creators who might be lurking)?

46. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - December 29, 2011

32. boborci – December 29, 2011
23. Good question. I should ask Mike Johnson. Johnson? You lurking?

Come on Mike. Are you hanging around here. lol.

47. Red Dead Ryan - December 29, 2011

#43.

Hey, you know as I do that the truth has to be told!

48. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - December 29, 2011

Hey MJ. You can have my Agoniser when you pry it from my cold dead finger’s.
Runs like Hell.

49. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - December 29, 2011

Ok. Bob Orci has my Agoniser. He asked to borrow it for something. Would not tell me what it was for. But I think he has special plans to use it on someone.

50. Battle-scarred Sciatica - December 29, 2011

@33

Cheers mate.

Now I know! hee hee hee

Happy New ears, fella.

looking forward to the next installment of Star Trip.

:)

51. MJ - December 29, 2011

@41. Amusing!

However, the next comic in this series will be based on the “Operation: Annihilate” story written by Trek great, Steven W. Carabatsos, who also wrote “Court Martial” and assisted on “Space Seed.” His health has been failing in recent years — wouldn’t it be just awesome if those who are leading these Trek comics decided to give any surviving writers of the episodes they are using a little $5K thank you check for their contributions to Trek? Would that really be such a big deal given what is happening here with their stories being recycled for profit by others today? Just a nice little “Thank You” with a token check to recognize their contribution to these new comics?

52. Red Dead Ryan - December 29, 2011

#51.

I agree, although I suppose the royalty clauses could have run out a long time ago.

But, yeah, a little acknowledgement to the original writers would be nice.

53. mikejohnson - December 29, 2011

@ 32 & 46

Now lurking…

Beautiful afternoon here in the Diego. Just got back from lunch at IDW HQ, where we were plotting the Trek comics course for 2012.

As long as fans keep supporting the book, the series will continue up to the sequel in 2013 (and hopefully beyond). Plans are underway for the COUNTDOWN-type prequel that leads into the new flick.

The comics stories will begin to diverge significantly from TOS. It’s the butterfly/hurricane deal: the first few issues have seen small deviations, but soon we’ll see dramatic departures from the original timeline.

HUGE thanks to everyone who has picked up the book thus far! Your love of Trek is what keeps the heart of the franchise beating.

54. mikejohnson - December 29, 2011

@3

Believe me, nobody goes into comics for the grabbing of cash. If you find where the cash is, please let me know.

We do it for the love.

And I defend your right to boycott the book, but in that case at least give me my initials back.

55. mikejohnson - December 29, 2011

@11

I like your thinking.

56. Red Dead Ryan - December 29, 2011

#53.

“Plans underway for a COUNTDOWN-type prequel that leads into the new flick.”

“The comiscs stories will begin to diverge significantly from TOS. It’s the butterfly/hurricane deal: the first few issues have been small deviations, but soon we’ll dramatic departures from the original timeline.”

Excellent news!

57. Red Dead Ryan - December 29, 2011

comiscs=comics

also: “but soon we’ll SEE dramatic…”

DAMN TYPOS!!!

DAMN ACCIDENTAL WORD OMISSIONS!!!

58. MJ - December 29, 2011

@54. Mr. Johnson, I rescind my call for a boycott, but I would still urge you to “go original” versus having to remake the original episodes. Sorry, but given you are obviously putting such great efforts into these comics, why do you need the crux of the original episodes???

And Michael Jordan would like us both to stop using his initials. :-)

PS: If there is a new Countdown like series of comics, I will buy those.

59. rm10019 - December 29, 2011

But there are new Trek comics with new stories still being produced and available. Other than the silly superhero cross-over ones, I can suggest those looking for new Trek stories. That is not the mission-statement for Star Trek: Ongoing.

60. Vultan - December 29, 2011

Star Trek: Redoing

61. Aurore - December 29, 2011

“my partner alex and I wrote the first Trek, and then we teamed up with Lindelof to write and produce the next Star Trek.”
_________

(Lindelof?….Damon…Lindelof? …)

Fascinating.

You know, I *NEVER* told anybody before, but, I…knew a guy named Lindelof who used to write fan fiction when he was 13, 14 years old.

I wonder if it’s the same person.
No, that can’t be.

:)

62. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 29, 2011

Why “go original”? You are more than likely to get told that it sucks. Meanwhile you have people dying to see more Khan, Carol Marcus, Gary Mitchell and on and on it goes.

It is risky indeed attempting to create something new and present a little bit of it. Keep up the good work, Bob Orci.

63. MJ - December 29, 2011

@62. Agreed — love the sarcasm/irony.

64. mikejohnson - December 29, 2011

@58

Thanks. The fact that you would boycott just tells me that you care about Trek very much, which is only a good thing. I’m glad you look forward to a new “Countdown” and I hope we do it justice.

As for revisiting the original episodes: I’m biased, and I usually prefer to brown-nose Bob in person, but I thought the stroke of genius of the 2009 movie was that it brought back the classic crew early in their careers, without negating anything that came before (by virtue of the alternate timeline). We can revisit WITHOUT remaking, because the original stories still exist. At the end of the ’09 movie we are left wondering what/how/when/where/IF they’ll encounter familiar things in this new timeline: Klingons/Gorn/Mudd/Khan/Horta/you name it. The comics give us a chance to do that, AND tell new stories at the same time.

The fun is in seeing how things are different in the new timeline, and I hope fans who know the TOS eps. by heart will enjoy seeing how a line/scene/character diverges in ways large or small – or not at all in some places. Now, you are entitled to feel that this isn’t fun, and you’d prefer all-new stories, but I hope this at least gives you an idea of what our thinking is. This series is a mix of the familiar and the entirely new, because the new timeline gives us that chance. In issues 5 & 6 coming up, the set-up is very similar to TOS but the results are completely new. 7 & 8 tell a completely new story spinning directly out of the events of the movie.

Long-winded, but just know that I understand your POV, love the wish for new Trek material on a regular basis, and hope you enjoy the series going forward as events unfold from familiar beginnings all the way to… May 2013.

65. mikejohnson - December 29, 2011

@ 58

P.S. This Bulls fan appreciates the Jordan ref.

66. kc - December 29, 2011

MJ…. isn’t part of the fun of the new timeline seeing changes in the original stories? I would think so. And while would they put the likenesses of the original cast in the new books? That wouldn’t make any business sense at all. The ONLY reason we get new Trek is because the first movie was successful financially. Movie studios are a business after all.

I’m not going to buy the comics because comics just aren’t my thing. But i do think it’s kind of cool they are doing this.

67. MJ - December 29, 2011

Thanks Mike — you make good points!

68. MJ - December 29, 2011

@66. Yea, I’m kind of getting Mike and Bob’s POV now. Still not completely sold on it, but it sounds like the future comics will be deviating enough that I can start getting into them more.

The fact that Mike spent the time to lay out his reasoning here, and tell me where this is heading, makes a big and positive difference to me. He certainly has his heart in the right place and is trying his best to make this concept (of revisiting TOS episodes) work as best it can.

69. captain_neill - December 29, 2011

Sometimes I feel as though this new universe has betrayed the character of Uhura. Seemed to have turned her into a bit of a bitch.

70. Chris Miles - December 29, 2011

@64Mike Johnson-

Just read issue 4. Nice. Liked the new way the day was saved for our Galileo Crew.

Original TV ep ending did have a little growth for our Stoic Vulcan, so lets hope he gets to grow in your comics as well.

Still looking for related hints from issue 1 and 4. I now think there are two separate plotine/hints. Thanks a lot. Now I’ll be scratching my head ’till 2013

71. captain_neill - December 29, 2011

They might do new ways in these stories but they still sound deriviative of TOS.

72. Killamarshtrek - December 29, 2011

I’d just like to say to Mike and Boborci that I’m loving this ‘Ongoing’ series and can’t wait to see how the other classic episodes turn out.

I was a little shocked in the latest one that we lost the ending where Spock jetisons & ignites the fuel in desperation, because that served to ‘soften’ the harshly ‘over’ logical approach he has during the rest of the episode. I’m sure there will be a good reason for it though!

My take on the ‘Uhura rescuing Spock’ situation is that it will make Spock realise that the risks Uhura has taken / will take purely on his behalf (because of their relationship) may become unacceptable in the future especially if other crew members (or the inhabitants of Makus III) are put in danger. The needs of the one DON’T outweigh, the needs of the many!

I do have one question though. After Uhura steals the shuttle, why does Kirk say to Ferris he’s going back to Makus III? Isn’t that where Ferris was ordering the Enterprise to go? Surely he meant he was going back to the planet in the Murasaki Effect?

Keep up the good work!

73. mikejohnson - December 29, 2011

@ 70 & 72

Thanks for the kind words. You both hit on an important theme as we go: how Spock’s character evolves compared to the original timeline, particularly given the loss of Vulcan.

@ 72

Re: Makus III. You have a sharp eye. That one slipped through the cracks. I blame Keenser.

74. NCM - December 29, 2011

@58. MJ – December 29, 2011: “I rescind my call for a boycott.”

Oh, sweet relief!! I guess ongoing has a chance, then, and mikejohnson will be able to make payments on that shiny new Oldsmobile.

@64: mikejohnson, thank you for the details. I’m sure one and all very much appreciate your willingness to share information.

@69: Really!? I suspect you’ll be hearing from Keachick and Spock/Uhura Fan:-{

75. NCM - December 29, 2011

Oh, btw, I loved learning how Spock would have resolved the weight issue. Kinda suspected as much. My hero!

76. AJ - December 29, 2011

My take on JJ-verse Uhura is the following:

1. Egotistical
2. Narcissistic
3. Opportunistic
4. Selfish
5. Incapable

#5 comes from the jaw-dropper in the last film when she did not report the attack on the Klingon armada until she was forced to spill the beans when Kirk stormed the Bridge. Kirk is also complicit, as he had overheard Uhura’s casual discussion of this while hiding under Gaila’s bed, and came to the conclusion himself while on the Bridge that it was related to the appearance of the ‘lightning storm in space.’

Now, she decides to steal a shuttle because of a personal relationship? Spock would be appalled most of all.

77. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - December 29, 2011

Hey Mike Johnson. Thanks for stopping by. You are also more then welcome to come over to Live Chat any time. We are always there posting about all kinds of crazy things. Hey. I even post Stories from the Terran Empire and even this day in History from the Empire.

78. NCM - December 29, 2011

76. AJ – December 29, 2011:
My take on JJ-verse Uhura is the following:
1. Egotistical
2. Narcissistic
3. Opportunistic
4. Selfish
5. Incapable

Sounds like a more fitting description of Kirk, but we love him anyway. I’d be curious to see how people who see new Uhura as a ‘bitch’ would wish to portray her.

In #4 ongoing, Uhura was Kirk-like; breaking rules and pulling off a win-win. Kirk even said he was only ‘mad’ because he didn’t do it.

Kirk and Spock Prime have likewise put ship and crew at risk to save each other–many examples to cite on Kirk’s behalf; The Tholian Web serves the point on Spock’s part.

79. MJ - December 29, 2011

@78. You forgot:

- Intelligent
- Beautiful
- Creative
- A Winner

I don’t have any problem with Uhura as written by Orci/Supreme Court and portrayed by Zaldana.

Scotty needs some fine tuning though — too goofy.

80. MJ - December 29, 2011

@74 “Oh, sweet relief!! I guess ongoing has a chance, then, and mike johnson will be able to make payments on that shiny new Oldsmobile.”

Nice try for humor, but GM discontinued the Olds line 3 years ago.

Let me redo your joke for you in the manner that I think you intended:

“Oh, sweet relief!! I guess ongoing has a chance, then, and mike johnson will be able to make payments on that shiny new Kia.”

I’m always here to help, NCM…you are welcome!

81. NCM - December 29, 2011

@80: I wasn’t around for the early Oldsmobile humor, or I’d surely have gone with a Kia! Always appreciate the help, MJ, as well as your elegant finesse, tremendous wit, and intelligent consideration in all matters:)

82. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - December 29, 2011

Here is a link to Trek Movies very first threds from August 2006. For those of you who would like to take a trip down Trekmovie memory lane. Some threds still to this day do not have a single post.

http://trekmovie.com/page/330/

83. Red Dead Ryan - December 29, 2011

I never thought of new Uhura as a bitch. I just don’t think she is that interesting a character to begin with, certainly not when compared to Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty.

I would like to see her do her job as a communications officer instead of solely running after Spock.

I agree that Scotty was a bit goofy at times during the movie, but he also had his moments, such as when he got the Enterprise away from the black hole that was sucking in the Narada at the end of the film.

84. Sunfell - December 29, 2011

I’m enjoying this series, and am looking forward to the upcoming issues. It got me back in the comic shop after years of staying well away, too.

Bob, I am very glad you’re in on the ‘bridging’ series- it makes it that much more interesting and makes the wait for the movie a bit more bearable. “Operation Annihilate!” should be a good one- with both Kirk’s family and Spock being attacked by those creatures. Can’t wait!

85. Tazzeh - December 29, 2011

@79
You forgot:
-Doesn’t do her job
-Abandons her station to chase Spock
-Constantly distracted by Spock
-Is painfully out of character for no other reason than to be the girlfriend.

Sure she is intelligent but let’s not forget that her intelligence (unfortunately) isn’t what got her on to the enterprise. It was her man.

And there needs to be more trio scenes. What’s up with the lack of Bones?

86. Mac - December 29, 2011

So when Kirk (or any male character in ST) breaks the rules it’s ok… but when Uhura does it (or any female character in ST)… it’s not ok????

87. Lee - December 29, 2011

Forgetting the fact that Kirk got on the Enterprise by faking being sick while Uhura simply stated the facts on why she should be on the Enterprise.

88. Red Dead Ryan - December 29, 2011

No, when the CAPTAIN breaks the rules, its okay only when the circumstances warrant it. Such as when Kirk disobeyed orders to retrieve Spock’s body from the Genesis planet, or when he disobeyed Starfleet’s orders to stay away from Earth when it was threatened by the whale probe. Kirk was already in command, had proven himself to his crew, and the Starfleet admirals were acting like beareaucrats, thus necessitating Kirk to defy his bosses.

The problem is, when someone who is serving in a position below Captain decides to do something without permission, then there is a discipline problem, unless the captain and first officer were acting irrationally. Other than that, for Uhura to flat out act without her captain’s permission is undisciplined, as it would be for male crew members.

89. Marshall - December 29, 2011

Star Trek is too much of a male dominated fan base with too many hypocrites who exaggerate everything to death. And every ST character always has to be compared to Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty… sad…

90. Red Dead Ryan - December 29, 2011

#87.

Very true. Both had very legitimate reasons for disobeying orders. Spock was acting somewhat irrationally, discriminating against Uhura because of their relationship, while Kirk had figured out that Nero was posing a huge threat, and that the fleet was going into a trap. Nobody was taking his warnings seriously, and he had to be smuggled aboard by McCoy.

#89.

I hate to break it to you, but Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty have been the gold standard over the years. Most of Trek’s quotable lines have come from those characters. Uhura (and to a lesser degree, Sulu and Chekov) were created to help break down racial barriers. And yes, Uhura did have her memorable moments during TOS, “Mirror, Mirror” being one example.

Never once did I say that Uhura had to be left in the background. I think with a few well written scenes in the sequel, Uhura can be fleshed out more, and allowed to do her job as a communications expert. Nobody wants her to REPLACE McCoy. She can be part of the new “big four” just as long as McCoy is there to banter with Spock and Kirk.

91. lemrick - December 29, 2011

@89. Marshall

Agree with you wholeheartedly! So tired of the whiny and immature attacks against Uhura.

92. MJ - December 29, 2011

@86 “So when Kirk (or any male character in ST) breaks the rules it’s ok… but when Uhura does it (or any female character in ST)… it’s not ok????”

@87 “Forgetting the fact that Kirk got on the Enterprise by faking being sick while Uhura simply stated the facts on why she should be on the Enterprise.”

Mac and Lee, you both broke the code here. The operative phrase here is:

“Double Standard”

93. MJ - December 29, 2011

@91 “So tired of the whiny and immature attacks against Uhura.”

Yea, it almost makes you wonder if some of this is the old high-school geek resentment of the good looking chicks they never had a chance with. LOL

94. NCM - December 29, 2011

88. Red Dead Ryan – December 29, 2011: “The problem is, when someone who is serving in a position below Captain decides to do something without permission, then there is a discipline problem.”

So it’s okay for Kirk to defy his superiors (and delay getting vaccine to millions–leaving no room for delay), and it’s not a discipline problem b/c he’s a captain (and is above obligation for setting an example).

Kirk ‘has faith in his crew,’ as he says. It’s consistent with his character to appreciate rule-bending in pursuit of sound hunches that result in win-wins.

95. Harry Ballz - December 29, 2011

82. Commodore Mike

“Here is a link to Trek Movies very first threds from August 2006″

But, Commodore Mike, if we post fresh comments on threads from 2006, and the writers embrace our input, won’t that possibly change the movie Star Trek when it comes out in 2009?

Hey, maybe we have a temporal loop here, where we must post comments NOW so they can punch up the script and have the movie come out as well as it already did the first time!

Bob, I think we need a ruling on this!

96. nate - December 29, 2011

I’m liking this series, although I wish there was an upgrade on the art. Love to see Gordon Purcell or Jerome Moore draw some issues!
I wonder if the writers might take some of the duller episodes from the first series like Immunity Syndrome and try to fix them. Some of these episodes had problems that dealt with budget or casting, and those wouldn’t be problems for a comic book.
Thanks for covering these!

97. GB - December 29, 2011

Nice job tracing photos for the cover as always, Bradstreet!

98. Charles Pratt, Jr. - December 29, 2011

I’m very happy to have a new monthly Star Trek comic to enjoy! It’s been far too long! I hope that as the series progresses we get more and more original stories that embellishes what began in the 2009 movie. I know that revisiting TOS episodes in this new timeline does that very thing but what can I say? The past, fractured or altered or what have you is still the past and I’d love for these characters we’ve cared for for so long to go out and “boldly go” to some strange new worlds again. New to them. New to us!

99. MJ - December 29, 2011

@94 “So it’s okay for Kirk to defy his superiors (and delay getting vaccine to millions–leaving no room for delay), and it’s not a discipline problem b/c he’s a captain (and is above obligation for setting an example).”

Yep – agreed.

Whoops, here we go with that inconvenient DOUBLE STANDARD again.

100. MJ - December 30, 2011

Not to mention Kirk being complete insubordinate to acting Captain Spock in Trek 09. But hey, he’s Kirk, so no problem. Memo to Uhura — please shut up like a good girl and listen to your weird microphone and let Kirk violate all the orders and chain of command he feels it is his best interests to do so.

101. Mikey - December 30, 2011

If Spock was my boyfriend then I’d definitely be abandoning my station to chase after him.

102. Killamarshtrek - December 30, 2011

@73 Re: Makus III

Thanks for answering Mike. I do have a sharp eye, you need it in my job. I wasn’t looking for mistakes, that one just kind of ‘jumped’ out at me! If you ever need a proof reader…….

103. MJ - December 30, 2011

Bob, saw you in the AC Clarke episode of Profits of SF tonight. Nice job. Great documentary.

104. MJ - December 30, 2011

@101 He likes it; hey Mikey!

105. Jason S. - December 30, 2011

I hate this new Trek with a fiery passion. However, for those out there that don’t feel the same way, these comics are a good thing.

@ boborci: Mr. Orci, I fully disagree with what you’ve done to my beloved “Star Trek” and despise you and the rest of the “powers that be” for it. However, I also can respect you for still reading and posting comments on this fan forum almost three years after your last movie came out. I almost feel like you care about long time fans. :D

106. Commodore Mike of the Terran Empire - December 30, 2011

#95. Hey Harry.Ain’t time travel fun. What do you think Bob Orci

107. Jeyl - December 30, 2011

@ boborci: I am paid exactly ZERO dollars for my participation in this series.

Must…..resist….. Joke….

108. Sebastian S. - December 30, 2011

Have to admit, I wasn’t too keen on rehashes of TOS stories (it seemed like a mistake at first), but this issue sounds like a significant divergence from the original episode.
Enough to make it worth picking up maybe….

However, despite any change of heart towards these comic books on my part, I do sincerely hope that the next feature film is not just a re-play of a TOS episode (or episodes) with just minor alterations. Of course, I’m sure all those involved will not just give us a rehash of a TOS episode and call it a new movie. The last movie was simply too good for the ball to just be dropped like that…

I really enjoyed ST09 and despite my advancing age and ever-thinning patience for the next one, I’m willing to wait however long it takes if the same thought, heart and care is put into the sequel. I have faith (even if running a bit low on patience… ;-D).

109. Harry Ballz - December 30, 2011

107.

Jeyl, why are you……suddenly…….talking like…….William Shatner? :>)

110. NCM - December 30, 2011

100. MJ – December 30, 201:
“Not to mention Kirk being complete insubordinate to acting Captain Spock in Trek 09. But hey, he’s Kirk, so no problem. Memo to Uhura — please shut up like a good girl and listen to your weird microphone and let Kirk violate all the orders and chain of command he feels it is his best interests to do so.”

MJ, good example, and I don’t think anyone made the comparison during our impassioned ‘conversations’ about Uhura abandoning her post, under dire circumstances, to check-in with Spock.

Drove me batty that Kirk got away with such extreme insubordination on the bridge–not realistic.

ST’s always defied plausibility, even when it wasn’t necessary to do so; always has taken the easiest route… I love 2009 and the comics, but I keep hoping the new ‘handlers’ will bring it up a notch. I think Trek’s reliance on absurd implausibility limits its fan base to people who fall in love with it as children.

111. Pauln6 - December 30, 2011

Rule-breaking can be a fine part of the story but technically for any other captain, Uhura would have earned herself a one-way transfer to another ship because she allowed her personal feelings for Spock to affect her ability to follow orders. Picard understood that such depth of feeling has no place on a ship and it’s the very reason why Uhura should have accepted the posting to a different ship.

Having said all that, she took the shuttle AND found the missing crew. We can hand-wave away how she managed that, but it does beg the question why Kirk didn’t consider leaving a couple of rescue shuttles behind to do exactly what Uhura did. It’s the competence of everybody else that can be called into question at the end of the day.

Nice to see Rand piloting like a pro – it’s a sign she may get to do more than serve coffee this time round.

112. Boris - December 30, 2011

mikejohnson: why use the old TOS stardates instead of the ST2009 year.dayofyear model? Did Bob Orci always plan to stop using them once the five-year mission was underway?

113. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 30, 2011

But did Lt Uhura act in this manner purely because of her personal feelings for Spock? After all, there were other members of the crew missing as well, including one of Kirk’s best friends, Dr McCoy. Scotty, who had no doubt proved himself again as being a very capable engineer, was also on that missing shuttle. I can’t remember the original episode so I am not sure why the First Officer, Chief Medical Officer and Chief Engineer were all together on that shuttle in the first place.

Kirk had a Federation official breathing down his neck all this time. What I do remember though is that this particular official was not being especially helpful.

Why do people want to limit Uhura’s brain power, perspective and understanding? Spock was not the only reason for doing what she did. The other aspect here is that as communications officer, she can also be in a position to be a kind of troubleshooter sometimes, when others are not able to be because of their own responsibilities and orders (Captain Kirk in this episode).

In another set of circumstances, even if her Spock was in mortal danger, Lt Uhura would remain at her post doing her job as communications officer and xenolinguist if the problems lay in the inability to understand an alien’s intentions because of language difficulties etc. She would not leave her post because she would know that the captain and others were relying on her abilities and specialized knowledge at that time. I actually believe that she would remain there doing her job, even it meant losing Spock. However, in the Galileo story, communications and knowledge of alien languages were not the main issues here.

114. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 30, 2011

Why should there be a five-year mission in this alternate timeline?

115. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 30, 2011

People are afraid of the power of Uhura … seems boborci and the Supreme Court is making Uhura boldly go where she should not go… at least according to some here of course … but for me … go Uhura … Uhura go ………. :-) :-)

116. NCM - December 30, 2011

@114: Good question. You’d think the destruction of Vulcan, a founding member of the Federation, and fleet losses suffered courtesy of Nero would mean the end of 5 year exploratory missions in favor of threat assessment, fleet rebuilding, and battle readiness.

117. Boris - December 30, 2011

116 – but Nero was a one-off threat and most of the fleet was in the Laurentian system, responding again to Nero’s attack on the Klingons. It’s hard to plan for temporal anomalies.

118. Jeyl - December 30, 2011

@113: “However, in the Galileo story, communications and knowledge of alien languages were not the main issues here.”

And sadly, it wasn’t an issue in Trek09 either. Go figure.

119. Harry Ballz - December 30, 2011

117. Boris “It’s hard to plan for temporal anomalies”

Yes, who can find the time??!

120. captain_neill - December 30, 2011

I think I will pick up TPB when they are put together

121. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 30, 2011

“boborci and the Supreme Court are making Uhura” …. :-) :-)

122. Pauln6 - December 30, 2011

It would have been cool if Uhura succeeded because of some specialist skill that only she possessed but she succeeded just by being in the right place at the right time, which diminshes her achievement to something that could have been done by anybody. This again leaves me to question why somebody within the chain of command hadn’t thought of leaving a rescue shuttle just in case.

TOS Uhura was smart, efficient, and a damn good officer. I hope NuUhura isn’t going to become more ghetto, rebellious, and a poor officer. Alternatively, this could just be an indication of a lack of respect for NuKirk because he hasn’t earned that respect yet.

Still, I’d love it if more of the supporting cast are allowed to be the hero more often. I just hope they do so by relying on variations of their established abilities and without breaking the rules every time.

123. dmduncan - December 30, 2011

118. Jeyl – December 30, 2011

@113: “However, in the Galileo story, communications and knowledge of alien languages were not the main issues here.”

And sadly, it wasn’t an issue in Trek09 either. Go figure.

***

Give it a rest. It’s been 2 + years since the movie came out. The only reason you keep taking those potshots is to get yet another of the same jibes in at Bob. But he’s probably numb to you by now, so what’s the point?

You think Uhura was handled better in TUC fumbling through a book to incompetently speak Klingonese for comic relief?

Where is this perfect former Star Trek that I keep hearing implied but never quite find, and which ST.09 pales in comparison to?

ST.09 was a pretty damned good movie. You want perfection? Half of it is in how you choose to see things. You’ll never find it complete without getting your head in the right shape first.

124. CarlG - December 30, 2011

@107: “Must…..resist….. Joke….”

Jeyl, if you are physically capable of making an honest-to-God joke without spraining something, I will buy a hat just so I can eat it.

125. FarStrider - December 30, 2011

@122. Ghetto?? Where the hell do you see ‘Ghetto’? and “TOS Uhura was smart, efficient, and a damn good officer.” Because the PtB at the time rarely let her do ANYTHING. . . Uhura shows some agency here, doing something that wouldn’t have been out of place for Kirk or Spock in the TOS (in fact, they’ve both done similar things in TOS and it’s movies), and yet because it is Uhura it’s now ghetto? What you seem to be saying here is that you, who want Rand, of all people, to be Kirk’s bodyguard, basically want Uhura to sit in the back of the starship and continue to do nothing instead of being actively heroic. . . RIIIIIIIIIIIGHT. . .

~FS

126. MJ - December 30, 2011

@ “Rule-breaking can be a fine part of the story but technically for any other captain, Uhura would have earned herself a one-way transfer to another ship because she allowed her personal feelings for Spock to affect her ability to follow orders.”

You mean like Commander Spock in Amok Time, where he let his personal relationship with a woman take control of him. I don’t recall Kirk giving him a one-way transfer, even after Spock tried to steal the Enterprise and then implemented attempted murder on a superior officer.

127. MJ - December 30, 2011

@122 “It would have been cool if Uhura succeeded because of some specialist skill that only she possessed but she succeeded just by being in the right place at the right time, which diminshes her achievement to something that could have been done by anybody.”

You mean like Spock Prime being in the right place at the right time to just happen to on that planet to save nuKirk and tutor him. But wait a minute, it’s Kirk and Spock — for them, we waive the unlikely coincidences, because hey, its Kirk and Spock we are talking about here. LOL

And I guess you conveniently want to forget how if Uhura hadn’t got on the Enterprise, that subpar Ensign who couldn’t tell the difference between Vulcan and Klingon dialects would have been the lead comm office, and he might have really screwed things up.

128. MJ - December 30, 2011

@122 “I hope NuUhura isn’t going to become more ghetto, rebellious, and a poor officer.”

“Ghetto” ???

Why don’t you just drop all your pretenses her and let the “N-word” fly….I can tell you are dying to us it. :-(

129. MJ - December 30, 2011

This is depressing to have to read shit like this on these boards.

130. Red Dead Ryan - December 30, 2011

This thread has gotten out of hand like a wet bar of soap!

131. mikejohnson - December 30, 2011

@ 77

Thanks Commodore, I’ll check it out!

132. mikejohnson - December 30, 2011

@ 80 & 81

I will settle for a newer Corolla.

133. mikejohnson - December 30, 2011

@ 84

Awesome to hear the comic got you back in the comic shop. Hope you’re finding some great books in there…

134. mikejohnson - December 30, 2011

@ 102

Keep keeping us honest. Nothing’s certain but death, taxes, and typos.

135. mikejohnson - December 30, 2011

@ 122

Speaking of typos… Going forward we are using the new Stardate system. Anyone who spots a mistake going forward gets a free signed variant cover of the issue the was in.

I reserve the right to decide whether it’s a true mistake or not, because I am a tyrant.

136. mikejohnson - December 30, 2011

The previous should be @ 112.

I can’t even avoid typos in the comments.

137. mikejohnson - December 30, 2011

@ 110

Who’s to say Kirk got away with it? Hmm…..

138. Pauln6 - December 30, 2011

Lol – I believe I could acutally quote Uhura on the topic of the n-word actually but we need not go there, since I was being facetious enough before. Plus NuKirk is just as ghetto in his own way.

I’ve been vocal enough about the shortcomings of certain cheesy plot elements of the movie. I think Kirk’s tactics have generally been awful to date (succeeding almost entirely due to luck and people ignoring his orders) but two wrongs don’t make a right. I’d prefer the characters to oscilate within their established skills where possible. That doesn’t preclude them being given new parameters in the reboot. I rather like some elements of NuUhura but I’d rather they focused on her skills as a linguist, a computer expert, a maths expert, a communications expert, and a technician. For example, I think she was qualified to go over onto Nero’s ship as part of the strike team entirely within character.

139. MJ - December 30, 2011

Just drop the “ghetto” word, dude. At best, it is not cool. At wost, it certainly smells racist.

140. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 30, 2011

#137 Yes, that’s true. They probably had him, among other things, cleaning Starfleet dunnies with a toothbrush for a week or doing some really crappy job that nobody likes in a cargo freighter going from boring but essential place A to boring but essential place B. The possibilities could be infinite…you know, doing the same stuff that Cupcake and the other Starfleet cadets got to do for beating up a *civilian* in a bar.

I thought at first, have Kirk work in some sort of Starfleet accounting department dealing with boring figures all day, but then I thought, that would be the last place to put someone like Kirk. I mean, he’s already hacked once, and he is going to be soooo bored…

Perhaps promoting him to Captain very early on in his career might turn out to be the ultimate *punishment*…

141. MJ - December 30, 2011

FYI:

“Ghetto” in American speech suggests poor, unsophisticated and black.”

– Microsoft Social Media Research

142. Pauln6 - December 30, 2011

Sorry – it obviously carries less offensive connotations here in the UK – most likely because we don’t have any ghettoes. Here it just means to have a tough attitude. But I remind you again what TOS Uhura said to Abe Lincoln. Words don’t have power only the connotations people apply to them. To me, it’s not even slightly racist because I apply it equally to any bad ass rule-breakers. Pay attention to Uhura’s message guys!

143. MJ - December 30, 2011

Ah, OK. No problem. Over here in the formerly colonies it is a more negative work. Best, MJ

144. dmduncan - December 30, 2011

138: “I think Kirk’s tactics have generally been awful to date (succeeding almost entirely due to luck and people ignoring his orders)”

For example?

145. Pauln6 - December 30, 2011

Just reviewing the thread. It is hilarious how much I’d forgotten about the silliness of TOS plots. Spock did steal the Enterprise and got away with it. Still, that doesn’t make it less wrong than Uhura’s stunt, although Kirk makes it clear that he’s taking the rap because he thinks he reputation will allow him to get away with it. The point that is left unsaid is that IF she had spoken to Kirk, he would have sacntioned it with greater resources and less risk.

The dialect thing was silly in the the Trek movie. If they know enough Romulan to teach it to students then the translater must know enough to translate it. It was a cheap way to get Uhura on the bridge. However, as a fluent Romulan speaker she would have been a good choice to go over to the Narada to accompany Kirk, who speaks no Romulan, when he split up from Spock.

I liked Uhura’s rescue in the comic, I just wished it could have been tailored to her particular skills set e.g. detecting what might have been a distress call through all the interference to giver her something to aim at.

146. Pauln6 - December 30, 2011

@ 144

1. He wants to pursue Nero against orders before he has the extra information from Spock and Scotty without which his plan would have failed. Not that Spock does any better – he bypasses an outpost with communications equipment that he could have used to signal Earth.

2. Kirk beams only 2 people on board the Narada despite having spare transporter capacity. The Narada would have detected the transport and would have been able to beam men to the location in a moment. Two men didn’t really stand a chance and Kirk is saved by sheer luck on two occasions.

3. He pursues Gary alone and is only saved because Spock disobeys his order.

4. He wastes time chatting and then blasting the Narada at point blank range while the black hole grows stronger. He probably can’t rub his head while patting his stomach either.

There may be other examples. He succeeds in spite of his lack of foresight and with hindsight it looks like his tactics were sound.

147. MJ - December 30, 2011

@146 “There may be other examples. He succeeds in spite of his lack of foresight and with hindsight it looks like his tactics were sound.”

There are many, many examples in TOS and Trek Movies of the Enterprise Big 3 getting lucky. Not sure what you guys are arguing about, but my point is that I think it is silly to hold Uhura to a different standard of behavior when her newly important character in the new movies/comics faces similar situations.

148. ncc50446 - December 30, 2011

I was really starting to get mad when I was reading the comic and it was the same as the episode…But, then got a change…That I still didn’t like…So ended up mad anyways…lol
I just really don’t like the Uhura and Spock thing…They just don’t click…Star Trek has had some bad relationships before (Seven and Chakotay). It just don’t seem real..
And no one seems to be held accountable for their actions…
But, other than that, I did like the monkeys lol Just hoping for some new adventures, and not repeats of TOS episodes…

149. NCM - December 30, 2011

While we’re comparing Uhura’s vs Kirk & Spock’s bucking of the rules, how ’bout that time Spock took Enterprise to Talos IV for the good of the one (Pike) at the risk to the many. Talos was considered such a threat that venturing there was the only crime for which the Federation would assign the death penalty. Scuttling off with a shuttle hardly compares.

150. FarStrider - December 30, 2011

@147 See your answers in 99 and 100. . .

~FS

151. NCM - December 30, 2011

137. mikejohnson – December 30, 2011:
@ 110
“Who’s to say Kirk got away with it? Hmm…..”

Well now, I was thinking it was obvious that Kirk got away with it b/c he not only supplanted Acting Capt. Spock, but got a permanent promotion to Capt. But now, you’ve got me wondering if we’ll see more to the story. Hmm….!

152. dmduncan - December 30, 2011

146. Pauln6 – December 30, 2011

“1. He wants to pursue Nero against orders before he has the extra information from Spock and Scotty without which his plan would have failed. Not that Spock does any better – he bypasses an outpost with communications equipment that he could have used to signal Earth.”

Mmmm, I don’t think so. His plan at that point was merely pursuit, which is exactly what he ended up doing. Since it didn’t get to the actual planning phase where they hashed out details about how best to do it, (because the entire notion was immediately kiboshed by Spock), and that phase was the next step he took upon taking command and issuing the order to follow, then we can also surmise that would have been the next step they took otherwise. Whether or not another plan without Scotty would have worked depends on what that plan would have been, which we didn’t get to see. But it doesn’t necessarily follow that the plan would have been the same.

“2. Kirk beams only 2 people on board the Narada despite having spare transporter capacity. The Narada would have detected the transport and would have been able to beam men to the location in a moment. Two men didn’t really stand a chance and Kirk is saved by sheer luck on two occasions.”

Kirk and Spock saved themselves from the BAD luck of Scotty’s transporting — they were supposed to be beamed to an unoccupied area of the ship. And using their quick wits and skill they turned a bad situation around.

Also, Kirk isn’t saved by sheer luck so much as the luck he creates — he knows how to create fog and use the unpredictable circumstances his actions create to his advantage. That’s why when Ayel is holding him over the edge by the throat, enjoying how weak humans are, Kirk goes for the gun he left undefended and kills him with it — not a planned circumstance, but a response he devised for the circumstances, which is what any great fighter has to know how to do, because opponents rarely cooperate with plans. That’s why even though Olson got himself killed with the explosives they needed to destroy the drill on Vulcan, he came up with an alternative using the defeated Romulans’ own weapons. And with Spock out on the Jellyfish he divided Nero’s attention between two problems to deal with from two totally different anges at once at once, one internal and one external.

“3. He pursues Gary alone and is only saved because Spock disobeys his order.”

You mean WNMHGB? That I would have to review to see if I agree or not, but so far two examples given from one episode and the last movie is not a strong case. Had you mentioned TWOK I would have agreed because he was a rusty old officer out of the seat too long.

“4. He wastes time chatting and then blasting the Narada at point blank range while the black hole grows stronger. He probably can’t rub his head while patting his stomach either.”

Perhaps, but to be fair that was a nod to what Scotty always did in the original series to familiarize all those newbies to the franchise.

“There may be other examples. He succeeds in spite of his lack of foresight and with hindsight it looks like his tactics were sound.”

But success does not always come as the result of careful planning and foresight. You can’t model the universe and then act according to some modeled prescription. Scotty wasn’t supposed to beam them to an occupied section of the Narada. Olson wasn’t supposed to get himself killed. Kirk wasn’t supposed to get bumped in the head by Ayel and to lose his phaser. Sometimes, very often in fact, you put yourself in a situation with a so called plan but with no idea of how it’s going to work out, making use of what is available and of what develops to improvise success. That’s not luck. Not to me. That’s intelligence.

Overall, yep, I believed this young Kirk was the same one who invented the Corbomite Maneuver, who outmaneuvered a Romulan commander in two separate instances, and who talked a poor lonely space probe looking for its daddy into self destructing.

153. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 31, 2011

#146
“1. He wants to pursue Nero against orders before he has the extra information from Spock and Scotty without which his plan would have failed. Not that Spock does any better – he bypasses an outpost with communications equipment that he could have used to signal Earth.”

Yes, Kirk does, because he could not see any way that the earth could be saved if they joined the fleet in the Laurentian system. He just *knew* they had to pursue Nero, intuiting Nero’s intentions and being the closest vessel. Kirk was winging it (as he tends to do). Kirk always seems to have a little “leader’s intuition” guiding him.

Re 4 – Kirk wastes time chatting? He was offering Nero and what was left of the Narada’s crew refuge/safety before the Romulans died when the Narada imploded, help which Nero refused. I would hardly call that “chatting”.

154. MJ - December 31, 2011

“Re 4 – Kirk wastes time chatting? He was offering Nero and what was left of the Narada’s crew refuge/safety before the Romulans died when the Narada imploded, help which Nero refused. I would hardly call that “chatting”.”

I agree. If anything, whoever was manning the science station and the sensors on the bridge at that moment (most likely and inexperienced cadet) failed to both notice the black hole situation in a timely matter and also failed to quickly notify Kirk and Spock immediately of that situation. If the bridge crew aren’t reporting the situation on the black hole in a timely manner to Kirk and Spock, then they can hardly be blamed for this supposed “chatting” issue…that is ridiculous.

155. Boris - December 31, 2011

135 – mikejohnson: for the March reissue, perhaps Scotty’s log in Ongoing #1 could be fixed to read “two-two-five-NINE-point-two-five”, not “eight”, because in the second issue Kirk says he’s been captain “for less then a year” (since ~2258.42). Then you could proceed with stardates 2259.26, 2259.27 and so forth, remembering that the digits after the point stand for the day of the year.

156. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 31, 2011

Happy New Year. It is now 1st January 2012, 12.19am. You guys are just soooo last year…:)

Now I gotta sleep. See ya!

157. Pauln6 - December 31, 2011

I definitely agree that Kirk’s cock up in TWoK is one of his biggest howlers but in that case he was rusty. It’s slightly different when it’s poor decision-making and rule-breaking that leads to him getting a command in the first place.

The movie was tremendous fun but if you move something to plug one plot hole you often open another. Pursuing Nero was a terrible idea based on the information they had at the time but then so was rendezvousing with the fleet.

Absolutely the best option was hotfooting it to the nearest communications array a) to warn Earth that Pike was captured to change defence codes; b) that Narada was on its way, what it had done and how it had done it; c) fresh orders so a twopronged plan could be effected and d) to contact the fleet to tell it to fly back to Earth asap. With her engines damaged the Enterprise couldn’t catch Narada and if the fleet was so far away that it couldn’t reach Vulcan in a short time at max warp it would take months to reach it on less than full speed – most likely comms would be fixed en route and the fleet would just overtake the Enterprise on its way back.

Obviously, despite flying in the wrong direction, the Enterprise DID manage to overtake the Narada at Warp 4, which means that she had been travelling at less than Warp 4. That would have given Earth a ton of time to evacuate, lay traps, call in help from other local allies (other races do have ships of their own) etc if only they had been warned. Once in touch with Earth, Spock would have been given some fresh orders by a ranking officer anyway.

I agree that much of Kirk’s luck is needed on the spot and I wouldn’t change that. However, I do get disheartened when he overlooks an obvious plan for no apparently good reason and maginifies the risks of things going wrong on whatever hairbrained scheme he comes up with and people still hail him as a great captain. Sure he did it quite a lot in TOS once Shatner started to hog all the action in the later episodes but I much prefer the earlier ones that are a little bit more ensemble.

158. Pauln6 - December 31, 2011

Oh and I meant Kirk wastes time chatting while the ship is stationary at the edge of a black hole that they can’t escape at maximum warp. He should have got out of the way while talking. The ship couldn’t havbe helped Narada at all if it was caught on the event horizon in any event so what was the point? Yeah it wasn’t all on Kirk – as an astrophysicist Spock should defininitely known better and crucial information like rapidly increasing gravity was sort of important for every one to know guy on sensors! It was a bit of sloppy writing for the sake of some melodrama – if they can’t escape at max warp just seconds later why weren’t they being pulled in while at impulse, should a communications signal even have been able to escape the gravity well of a sigularity (not sure how subspace comms are supposed to work if I’m honest), why weren’t photon torpedoes crushed by the gravity before reaching the target, why would Narada’s massive engines exploding have helped push them away? As I say it was a fun movie but yowser, it could have done with a bit of polish to make it less silly in a fair few places.

159. Jeyl - December 31, 2011

@123: “You think Uhura was handled better in TUC fumbling through a book to incompetently speak Klingonese for comic relief?”

No. I would go further to say that Uhura wasn’t handled well at all in the bulk of Star Trek, both in the original series and in the movies. One of the big hopes I had for Trek09 was that she would be a much improved character. That is not what we got.

@123: ” The only reason you keep taking those potshots is to get yet another of the same jibes in at Bob.”

Well… Bob is the only one who actually replies so of course it makes sense to say that. But really, my expressions are to everyone involved. And even if they don’t reply, I don’t really care. I’m still going to speak up.

@123: “Where is this perfect former Star Trek that I keep hearing implied but never quite find, and which ST.09 pales in comparison to?”

Now I understand where you’re coming from. You assume that my idea of a perfect Star Trek is what it used to be during it’s original series and movie runs. The truth is that my feelings are completely the opposite. The original Star Trek series, while ground breaking in many regards, is for a very large part a product of it’s time. A time that Star Trek eventually grew out of, and became better for it. Trek09 not only emulated the time with it’s cast, but also the look and setting which depicted a heavily male focused society where men are the commanders, and women are just eye candy. Example. Despite the fact that Kirk’s parents were both star fleet officers, it’s Kirk’s dad who’s the #1 source of inspiration where the mother is completely forgotten even though she’s still alive.

But when it all comes boiling down to the role of the characters, both Uhuras are assigned to the most useless station on the bridge. Everything that Uhura does can be done by some other crew member (i.e. Chekov for hailing the Narada) and the whole switching officers because she knew Romulan was entirely pointless because the Romulans weren’t speaking Romulan.

I’ll give you another example on why her station is useless. Have you ever noticed during the TNG era that there were no longer any officers on the bridge who’s sole purpose was for communications? The tactical officer took over those duties. The only reason that the communications station was brought back in Enterprise was because the series depicted translators as non-reliable so there was a real need for a comms officer who could translate unknown languages. And low and behold, they actually stood by that concept. Remember when the crew encountered the Romulans who didn’t speak english?

160. Pauln6 - December 31, 2011

Credit where credit is due the new movie was very enjoyable, hugely successful, and it gave the franchise a refreshing jolt in the arm. I’m sure Bob understands that you can’t please all of the people all of the time and they were trying to balance a lack of technobabble to appeal to the widest audience. I do think science fiction should contain some science though and I’d prefer it is if it was correct science.

No version of Trek has ever been perfect but I agree 100% that NuTrek has taken about 3 steps back as far as the women are concerned, which is odd considering the successful heroines that have featured in many Abrahms products. I think the writers just focused on the big 7 and Pike and forgot that they could use more women in the supporting roles. Kirk’s mother is indeed treated shabbily, and few women take any kind of prominence in any speaking roles beyond the mothers and scantily clad girlfriends, which is a real shocker for a sci fi franchise with pretensions of equality.

One of the reasons I champion an updated version of Rand is to utilise an existing character but modernise what she is allowed to achieve. She doesn’t have to be a senior officer to be a cool, effective character. It has always been a real shame that they kept giving Uhura’s job to other characters but they did it largely to reduce the amount of money they had to pay the actors on set I suspect. Spock got to do more technical communications stuff than Uhura ever did. If you comb back through TOS you would probably find that there is actually a fair bit of communications and computer related stuff that Uhura COULD have done. The role is not as limiting as you might think if they actually use her in situations where her skills are needed. So Spock thinks he can blag Romulan but Uhura speaks it fluently in every dialect. Why is she not a good choice to accompany the boarding party instead of that excruciating goodbye scene? When Kirk and Spock split up, Kirk is supposed to know exactly how to find Pike on a massive ship with dodgy bridges cross-crossing all over with no knowledge of Romulan at all? Sure they did manage to blag it in the end but with Earth at stake is that really what they should have been doing?

Uhura effecting a rescue in the comic could be a good sign that the big 3 will become the big 4. I certainly hope so. But I also hope that Uhura isn’t only elevated by adding in girlfriend scenes. She is an officer with multiple technical skills and I’d like to see those showcased more often.

161. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

159: “Well… Bob is the only one who actually replies so of course it makes sense to say that. But really, my expressions are to everyone involved. And even if they don’t reply, I don’t really care. I’m still going to speak up.”

Nonsense! I read replies to you all the time and most of them are not from Bob. They’re from people worn out by your complaints. You can keep making them but everyone who frequents this site on a regular basis knows how much you don’t like the sequel or Uhura’s role in it — which last point you don’t even have full support on by other women who bother to comment.

So what it really comes down to is that this is not your evolution of Star Trek when it’s not supposed to be. This is a reboot of TOS, and if you have a complaint about Uhura’s role, it’s really TOS you have a problem with because she’s not one of the lead roles. Uhura’s role was bigger in ST.09 than it’s ever been before, but she really didn’t have a big role in the series and this movie is a return to that set of characters. I’m just not sure what you are a fan of in Star Trek. It may be that it’s just not the franchise for you unless complaining about what’s wrong with it IS ITSELF the value you derive from watching it.

159: “Despite the fact that Kirk’s parents were both star fleet officers, it’s Kirk’s dad who’s the #1 source of inspiration where the mother is completely forgotten even though she’s still alive.”

It’s news to me that his mom was a Starfleet officer! What makes you think that? Because she was onboard a starship? Yeah, and if they hadn’t been attacked by Nero would baby James Kirk have been commissioned as an officer after being born so he could be on a starship? It may just be that families are permissible on starships too.

Maybe you think growing up without a father is no biggie. And if you do I won’t bother to talk you out of that idea, but yeah, his ABSENT because DEAD father who saved all their lives was a source of inspiration AND anxiety for Kirk. You missed that latter part as well, and you are projecting all sorts of assumptions about his relationship to his mother which you have no right to make based on what you saw in the movie. So here again, it’s about how you choose to see things.

162. NCM - December 31, 2011

Wishing you all a safe and Happy New Year! Have fun and make good choices!

163. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

157: “I definitely agree that Kirk’s cock up in TWoK is one of his biggest howlers but in that case he was rusty. It’s slightly different when it’s poor decision-making and rule-breaking that leads to him getting a command in the first place.”

His screw up in TWOK was more likely due to being used to piloting desks with paperwork enemies by the time he got back aboard.

Rule breaking? Yes, he breaks the rules AT TIMES because rules so often make people lifeless, predictable, objects shuffling about in their routines like gears in a machine — precisely the thing that Pike saw of value in Kirk and which he felt Starfleet had lost.

No apology for that required.

“Absolutely the best option was hotfooting it to the nearest communications array a) to warn Earth that Pike was captured to change defence codes; b) that Narada was on its way, what it had done and how it had done it;”

They didn’t know the Narada was heading for earth.

But it really doesn’t matter because Kirk never got the chance to come up with any plan because he was abandoned on Delta Vega. Which really makes my point: We don’t know what would have happened had Kirk got his way. “Pursuit” is very vague until the precise details are conceived. How closely, for example? Do they shadow the Narada far enough away for recon so that the Narada doesn’t trouble itself swatting one fly of a starship?

There isn’t one right way to write Kirk’s unknown pursuit strategy, and you are coming up with failure scenarios with no specific Kirk-plan to attach your scenarios to, which makes you look like Kirk-bashing.

Now, I could be wrong but it does sound to me like you are a Picard fan who thinks Kirk is a reckless cowboy. I’ve encountered that so many times, including from Picard.

This was the New World Order attitude of the 90′s, when TNG was in its heydey, and when George HW Bush and Clinton thought they were making the earth safe for powerful rich people to lord it over a homogenized population of internationalized earthlings.

Kirk broke the rules, but he was always true to himself, vs. the prepubescent Borg-like mentality of TNG where assimilating differences for the alleged greater good of some nebulous whole had begun to present itself, in which individual action and responsibility was discouraged and seen as old fashioned.

An attitude that not only now shows its age, but its spreading cracks.

“With her engines damaged the Enterprise couldn’t catch Narada and if the fleet was so far away that it couldn’t reach Vulcan in a short time at max warp”

Why would the fleet be going to Vulcan? Comm was impossible because of the effect of the drill, which was one of Pike’s points in destroying it, so that comm and transporter ability could be reestablished.

The fleet they had was destroyed by Nero, and nobody was getting to Vulcan in time to save the planet.

“That would have given Earth a ton of time to evacuate,”

Hehehe! Evacuate whom? The entire planet? Only humans? Or animals too? Be pretty lonely without dogs and cats! And with what? With all those starships that had been destroyed, which would have been enough to carry a tiny fraction of earth’s population?

Or, are you implying, evacuate only the ones you think matter?

164. Jeyl - December 31, 2011

“It’s news to me that his mom was a Starfleet officer! What makes you think that? Because she was onboard a starship?”

…Yeah.

“You missed that latter part as well, and you are projecting all sorts of assumptions about his relationship to his mother which you have no right to make based on what you saw in the movie”

Of all the people who would tell Kirk what his father stood for, the one person who would know what he actually believed in would be Kirk’s mother. Sure, Pike may have made a report about George’s sacrifice, but his mother was actually there when George took command and she was the last person to actually talk with him right up to the moment of his death. Why shouldn’t the mother be involved with that?

165. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

164: “…Yeah.”

Yet I saw the same movie and thought families are permissible aboard starships. And I think that was Roddenberry’s idea as well.

“Of all the people who would tell Kirk what his father stood for, the one person who would know what he actually believed in would be Kirk’s mother. Sure, Pike may have made a report about George’s sacrifice, but his mother was actually there when George took command and she was the last person to actually talk with him right up to the moment of his death. Why shouldn’t the mother be involved with that?”

Nobody said she wasn’t. It didn’t fit in the movie, but that’s not to say that isn’t a story all by itself.

166. Pauln6 - December 31, 2011

They noted that the Narada’s direction when it headed off was for Earth, that was why Kirk was so angry at Spock. Although Spock had orders to rendezvous with the fleet, the risk of an immediate attack on Earth was something that should have led Spock to reconsider his options more fully. In that respect Kirk was right. However at that point, they had no chance of catching the Narada, which slowed down for some unknown reason later on. Of course we can assume that any plan Kirk could have come up with would have succeeded because he’s Kirk and therefore he is always justified in ignoring the rules. At least TWoK played with that notion to perfection. However, the plan he eventually implemented would most likely have failed without Spock Prime’s information and Scotty’s assistance.

Sorry if my example confused you though. I meant IF the fleet was too far away from Vulcan it was also too far away from Earth. After the fight at Vulcan they mention that they have to restore communications as well, thus implying that both engines and communications needed repairs. That’s why the best option was heading for a communications array or Scotty’s base. Even if the fleet is operating comms silence, sending a message to someone nearer to them without broken engines to head on down. Perfectly logical.

I am a fan of TNG but even there characters like Word and Ro gave a refreshing contrast to the others and Picard was able to reflect on his wild youth and how it led him to be the captain he became. If anything the failure was Enterprise, which should have captured the more gung ho pioneer spirit of TOS but chanelled the blander spirit of TNG.

167. Bucky - December 31, 2011

Hey MikeJohnson, I twittered BobOrci months ago promising that if y’all adapted Spock’s Brain in the first 12 issues I’d buy it in monthlies instead of waiting for the trade. That offer still stands! I know there’s classic episodes to revist and all… but, c’mon, Spock’s Brain!

168. Keachick - rose pinenut - December 31, 2011

#164 It is more than likely that Kirk’s mother did tell him about the events of his birth and of his father’s death. It wouldn’t make sense not to. However, for the two of them, it is also a painful emotional memory and experience. *Perhaps she rued the day that George Kirk ever joined Starfleet….Kirk’s reaction to the whole situation was shown when Pike was explaining how his father, George Kirk, did not believe in no-win scenarios and Kirk replied, sadly, “Yeah, and look where that got him” or something to the effect. From Kirk’s perspective, it is easy to see why he might have a less than positive outlook.

It was Pike who helped him to think about things from a different perspective, a more positive one.

I agree that we should have seen Kirk’s mother again in the movie, especially when Kirk is receiving his command, or at least, been told where or what might have happened to her. Maybe his mother is also dead by the time he reaches adulthood. I hope not. But then, he would have even more in common with Spock.

* I know that his mother was mentioned in a deleted scene as being off-world working for Starfleet, however I do not fully accept that as being canon and will not until I am told otherwise by the producers. Deleted scenes, no matter how good or relevant, do not constitute canon to me, so I do not take what is told in them as being part of the known story. I have actually asked Bob Orci at least twice on how deleted scenes should be regarded, but so far, no reply.

169. AJ - December 31, 2011

165:

Families aboard starships was one of ‘the’ big ideas of TNG, but was only touched on in TOS (Balance of Terror), but with no kids or schools, or ‘Captain Picard Day” type rituals.

TNG eventually moved away from the idea, and once the “E” became their home, it was essentially abandoned.

IN ST09, the fact Winona Kirk is off-planet during young Kirk’s Corvette joy-ride, kinda confirms she’s in Starfleet.

170. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

166: “However, the plan he eventually implemented would most likely have failed without Spock Prime’s information and Scotty’s assistance.”

Pursuit is not a plan. I think you are assuming that raw naked pursuit was all there was to it, but that probably would not have been the case because once he decided to pursue he had a conference on the bridge about the best way to do it, which would also probably have happened had they decided to pursue.

So there was no original plan developed yet and what did develop certainly was different that what otherwise would have been developed. So again, it makes no sense to calculate the odds of failure of an undeveloped plan that you never actually heard.

“That’s why the best option was heading for a communications array or Scotty’s base. Even if the fleet is operating comms silence, sending a message to someone nearer to them without broken engines to head on down. Perfectly logical.”

If you assume that there WAS anyone else ready and able to defend against the Narada — which had just blasted Starfleet to pieces all by itself — once earth’s defenses were down. But what makes you assume that? What did you see in the movie that made you think that was a viable alternative, because you do have to restrict yourself to the actual situation of the movie if you want to argue that Kirk did not choose the best strategy from within the set of conditions he had to work with; you can’t just create your own conditions — i.e.,, somebody who could have handled the Narada was closer and he failed to alert them so he’s a lousy leader — and then say Kirk failed to enact the best strategy because he failed to use conditions that were not available to him.

The impression I got after repeated viewings was that if the Enterprise couldn’t save earth, earth was screwed. The main fleet was too far away, the remainder had been obliterated by Nero, and earth’s defenses were down. There was just nobody else to handle the Narada in a brute force attack, and even if they did have somebody, they didn’t have James T. Kirk and his team of fargin sneaky bastages.

So you seem to be making assumptions unsupported by what you saw in the movie to come up with a way to defend your original claim that Kirk was the mere beneficiary of luck, whereas I am confining myself to what happened in the movie happening that way because it was the best option, otherwise the events would have been different if better options existed, in other words, if there were other defenses able to defeat the Narada closer than the Enterprise — and by which I argue that if it was luck Kirk exploited, then it was luck Kirk created.

“I am a fan of TNG”

TNG was sending out conflicting messages. It was caught between old and new, but still very much reflecting the attitudes of the time in which it was made while trying to hold on to what it was, and it was not always a harmonious mixture of ingredients.

171. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

169: “IN ST09, the fact Winona Kirk is off-planet during young Kirk’s Corvette joy-ride, kinda confirms she’s in Starfleet.”

Mmm, not really. She could have a different job that takes her off world for other reasons. I actually like the idea of imagining Kirk’s childhood, so I’ve been playing with a totally different scenario than that his mom is Starfleet.

Unless Bob makes the Kirk’s-mom-is-Starfleet idea canon, there’s more interesting room to play with that role.

172. AJ - December 31, 2011

171:

An interplanetary Avon Lady?

I’d think after her experiences on the Kelvin, unless she were in Starfleet, she would have had it with space travel.

Maybe she’s having an affair on the Moon.

173. Aurore - December 31, 2011

On this side of the planet, 2012 is HERE!!!

I wish you all a very Happy and Healthy New Year, my fellow Trekkers!

174. boborci - December 31, 2011

Happy New Year everybody

175. boborci - December 31, 2011

“fargin sneaky bastages.”

You just made my day.

176. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

175. boborci – December 31, 2011

Happy to oblige, sir! ;-)

Happy New Year, all!

177. Pauln6 - December 31, 2011

Happy New Year everybody! I just read through the first 4 issues of the comic while waiting for midnight to hit and they are a really fun read. When you read them all together you can see the narrative subtext that is beginning to develop. I’m looking forward to seeing lots more fun things in 2012!

178. Pauln6 - December 31, 2011

@170 – “If you assume that there WAS anyone else ready and able to defend against the Narada — which had just blasted Starfleet to pieces all by itself — once earth’s defenses were down.

So you seem to be making assumptions unsupported by what you saw in the movie to come up with a way to defend your original claim that Kirk was the mere beneficiary of luck, whereas I am confining myself to what happened in the movie happening that way because it was the best option,”

Some people prefer only to base their opinions on what they see on screen; others enjoy extrapolating from what we know about the fictional universe and applying that logic to what we see on screen. If Nero was smart, he would have been blowing up communications arrays as he went thus limiting long distance communications to about 30 light years unless a ship was nearby to act as a relay. We have no evidence on screen that Nero was all that smart or that he took any steps to disrupt starfleet communications beyond the localised effect of the drill and evidence to contradict this (a message filtering all the way from Klingon space).

We know that Andorian space borders Vulcan. We know that they are Federation members. We know that they are a warrior race. We know that they have warships. We know that they are on Nero’s hit list. Whether they were prepared to help or not they were close by and needed to be informed.

We know Earth has defences. We know that Nero wants them disabled. We know that Pike can disable them. Thus information about Pike’s capture is pretty crucial to Earth.

As fans, we know Kirk will succeed so he can do whatever the hell he likes in the script and still be a winner. I prefer to judge him without hindsight and consider what steps he took to manage the risks involved. Usually not many! As long as he falls on his a** a few times and gets a few people killed, I’m happy to let him be a risk-taker. I just want there to be an acknowledgment that the riskiest strategy isn’t always the best and this can be a flaw as well as a strength.

179. MJ - December 31, 2011

@160 “I think the writers just focused on the big 7 and Pike and forgot that they could use more women in the supporting roles. Kirk’s mother is indeed treated shabbily, and few women take any kind of prominence in any speaking roles beyond the mothers and scantily clad girlfriends.”

But that is exactly why they gave Uhura such bigger role in nuTrek. They are hamstring by the Big 7, but I thought Kirks and Spocks mom had decent supporting roles given their is only so much additional screen time they could give them.

Again, they are hamstrung by the screen time the Big 7 needed in this origin story. The only thing that might have done was to do a BSG like character sex change, and make Sulu of Chekov a female (i.e. like Starbuck on the updated BSG). I think I could have accepted that, but I would bet you that 90% of the posters here would be still bitching about today if they had gone that route.

180. MJ - December 31, 2011

@ 178 “If Nero was smart, he would have been blowing up communications arrays…etc. etc.”

But Nero and his crew were trained miners, not trained Romulan military personnel. So we know that he was not smart in terms of military training knowledge.

I would agree with your argument that he should have been smart enough to do all of those things if he had been a Romulan military commander, who would have have training in military technologies, strategy, etc. However, he was just a mining ship captain…hence, your argument falls apart.

In today’s world, this would be like expecting the captain of a cargo ship to all of sudden be able to make the correct and logical military-technological decisions that a Naval Carrier Battle Group Commander could make — that is just ludicrous.

181. Red Dead Ryan - December 31, 2011

Well, yesterday I wrote about Uhura disobeying orders, and how I thought it was wrong. I thought it over last night and realized it really isn’t that big of a deal, since I figured Kirk would’ve commended her, and maybe slightly scolded her at the same time. Which is what happened as I found out after reading the book. Kirk confines both Spock and Uhura to one of their quarters, understanding the need to punish, yet also allow them some personal time together. Stern, yet compassionate. A true Kirk moment.

Also, the Spock/Uhura relationship continues in the comics, which I have been opposed to up until this point. While I may never totally support it, I have come to accept it for what it is. I just hope that Spock is still the outsider struggling to come to terms of his human and Vulcan sides, especially in light of Vulcan’s destruction and the near decimation of the Vulcan civilization.

I just think there’s far more important things in this world to be ticked off about instead of fictional happenings with fictional characters in fictional universe.

I’ve been a bit ticked off myself lately for some reason, and I’ve decided not to continue to let the small things bother me.

Serenity now.

182. Red Shirt Diaries - December 31, 2011

All, applying “hard science fiction” and “realistic military scenarios” to Star Trek as PaulN6 is trying to do here is pretty much a lost cause. Star Trek does not rise to the level of Hard SF, not does is rise to the level of realistic military operations fiction…never has and never will.

183. Red Shirt Diaries - December 31, 2011

It also occurs to me that one easy way to fix the lack of female representation in the Big 7 would be to kill off in the next movie the weak link — Chekov — and have Ensign Rand promoted to take over Chekov’s station.

184. Red Dead Ryan - December 31, 2011

Nero was so full of rage and obsessed with revenge he wasn’t thinking rationally. His madness blinded him to the normally obvious tactical options and strategies.

Nero was quite intelligent, as he managed to morph his tiny mining ship into a powerful behemoth by combining salvaged Borg technology with familiar Romulan technology.

Even if he and his crew been military officers, Nero’s rage and quest for vengeance would still have obstructed his logic and strategic planning.

185. MJ - December 31, 2011

@184. Yes, he was BOTH blinded by rage and lacking in professional 23rd century military training.

So to expect him to behave like a rational and trained starship commander (i.e. expecting him to launch a planned series of preemptive attacks on starfleet communication outposts) who does things in a militarily logically and planned fashion is not credible.

186. Hugh Hoyland - December 31, 2011

Happy New Year !!!! :]

187. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

178: “Some people prefer only to base their opinions on what they see on screen; others enjoy extrapolating from what we know about the fictional universe and applying that logic to what we see on screen.”

But then you can’t say there are plot holes because you extrapolated to a set of personally held scenarios that what you saw happen on the screen doesn’t account for. The movie is the primary source, the stand-in for real-world evidence, so if there is a conflict between what you see and your extrapolations, then your extrapolations should be suspected.

You can tell me that Superman can fly on earth because the gravity of earth is weaker than the planet he was born on, and that might sound like an explanation to some people, but in fact that explanation hardly accounts for the flights Superman is capable of. But when you step into that franchise, you step into the reality of that world, and you have to do the same thing for Star Trek.

Gravity on the Enterprise. How?

Somehow.

Transporting to locations without a receiving pad. How?

Somehow.

Why weren’t Andorians able to help?

Somehow.

Indeed, being members of the Federation, perhaps they were as obligated to meet the threat in the Laurentian system as Starfleet was, or maybe they just didn’t get the call —

We never saw a reaction from Scotty regarding the destruction of Vulcan at any point during the movie, yet Vulcan was as visible to Scotty in the sky of Delta Vega as it was to Spock Prime. So you can extrapolate that he had an offscreen reaction at some point, maybe even at the same time Spock Prime and James Kirk saw it happen, because Scotty knew it had happened even though we didn’t see him seeing it happen.

In which case you could also extrapolate that Nero blasted Scotty’s comm satellite before he could alert anyone.

My point being that just because every detail wasn’t explained does not necessarily mean those details cannot be explained later on. Little mysteries like that could even end up as sources for new stories.

A movie is much more fun when you surrender to the world it depicts rather than battling it using a competing world you hold in your mind at the same time you’re watching it.

“I just want there to be an acknowledgment that the riskiest strategy isn’t always the best and this can be a flaw as well as a strength.”

Nobody is saying that riskiest is best. But in this situation a risky strategy was called for because of the nature of the threat Nero posed. And when you are telling SF stories on a big screen, let’s tell big dramatic stories to fit the screen.

I love Star Treks past, but even the movies were small compared to what ST.09 did. And I liked that for a change. Can’t wait for the sequel!

188. mikejohnson - December 31, 2011

@ 155

I like your thinking, Boris. You win a prize! If you’re on twitter drop me a line (@mikecomix) and I’ll get your address and send you a variant copy of issue 1. If you’re not on twitter we’ll figure out another way to get in touch.

189. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

That “—” after “didn’t get the call” in 187 is a dash pointing to the next paragraph though it didn’t format that way.

190. mikejohnson - December 31, 2011

But wait! There’s more! It’s a New Year’s Giveaway! The first three people to answer the following question get a copy of the collected ’09 Movie Comic Adaptation, which is currently gathering dust on my bookshelf.

Just answer this question correctly: Do you want a copy of the collected ’09 Movie Comic Adaptation?

Happy New Year, everybody. LLAP.

191. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

190: “Just answer this question correctly: Do you want a copy of the collected ‘09 Movie Comic Adaptation?”

Yes.

192. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

Did I answer correctly?

193. mikejohnson - December 31, 2011

@ 177

Great to hear your feedback from reading #1-4 together. We are indeed embracing the fact that this is an ONGOING series, which means that we can have subplots/themes/etc. that continue on as we go and build into new stories. Even though the “episodes” are self-contained stories, you will start to see how things that happened in one story will be referenced and affect things in later stories… eventually tying into the next movie.

194. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

181: “Serenity now.”

Good name for a ship, that first part.

195. mikejohnson - December 31, 2011

@ 192

You NAILED IT.

196. Anthony Pascale - December 31, 2011

mike and bob show up and a comics article turns into a whole new thing

happy new year everyone

Time for some (spiked) Tranya

197. dmduncan - December 31, 2011

195. mikejohnson – December 31, 2011

YAAAY!!!!

198. Red Dead Ryan - December 31, 2011

#194.

Yes, and if the captain of the ship is surrounded by Klingons on a planet and needs to be beamed up immediately before he’s vaporized by disruptor fire, he’ll be screaming:

SERENITY NOW!

199. Anthony Pascale - December 31, 2011

Capt. Frank Costanza?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5513mXmQbw4

200. Red Dead Ryan - December 31, 2011

Yeah, and there’s a Trek connection with that “Seinfeld” episode.

The guy who played Lloyd Braun (Matt McCoy) previously played Devinoni Ral in the TNG episode “The Price”.

201. MJ - December 31, 2011

RDR, you search for Serenity if over with this link:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379786/

202. MJ - December 31, 2011

@190: “Just answer this question correctly: Do you want a copy of the collected ‘09 Movie Comic Adaptation?”

Yes, Mike!

203. mikejohnson - December 31, 2011

@ 202

CORRECT.

204. Red Dead Ryan - December 31, 2011

#201.

MJ, I own the movie on Blu Ray. I actually haven’t watched any of “Firefly” though as the Blu Ray set is still around $80 in Canada. I’m waiting for the price to come down.

However, I really enjoyed “Serenity”.

205. Boris - January 1, 2012

188 – mike: no, that was a free suggestion, given that the “Countdown” compilation corrected the time Spock had spent on Romulus (from 40 to 20 years), but thanks for the thought. However, do stick around here for the future comics if you can, since it’s quite useful to clarify minor points directly with the writer.

206. Pauln6 - January 1, 2012

Much as I enjoyed NuBSG and they did a great job of equalising the sexes, I don’t think I would have preferred them to give any of the Big 7 a sex change. However, if they had left Chekov out of the first movie, used Rand (not in his position at navigation but most of Chekovs lines had nothing to do with navigation so a different woman could have filled that role), included Number One and T’Pau, made Robau and/or his first officer a woman, and featured a female admiral at Kirk’s trial, these things would not have impacted majorly on the plot but would have helped update a sixties franchise to the 21st century equality. I would lose no sleep if half the male supporting guest characters from the sixties were given a sex change. If the comic writers don’t implement a policy like that and they continue to write out female characters like Dehner, we’ll have a 21st century franchise that is, for the time in which is being written, far more sexist that the original.

I understand why they decided to use Chekov but like the Batman movies took their time before introducing Robin, fans would have understood why he was not there, and new viewers would not have felt aggrieved that he was missing because they’re new.

I enjoy real science fiction in with my science fantasy and I do love movies like the Andromeda Strain and Contagion as well. However, I also understand why NuTrek wants to simplify matters for a wider audience. I’m not a huge fan of technobabble – I prefer the stories to be about the people and not the tech. The secret is finding the right balance. Trek has many fantasy elements but many of those have their own rules and limitations. I get uneasy when the rules and limitations are cast aside – speed of plot gets tiresome (if you need the characters to be somewhere make sure they are in the right place to get there in the first place), and throwing away the distance limitations of transporting (distinct from transwarp beaming) was bonkers in view. In a three movie franchise the issue may never come up again but the ongoing comic now has to factor in a transporter range of a light year into its stories.

Generally I think the movie holds together well on a superficial level and only a few tweaks could have papered over the silliest cracks.

207. MJ - January 1, 2012

@206. So you are not going to address then the holes that DM Duncan, Read Dead Ryan and I pointed out regarding the issues you had brought up with Trek 09?

208. Pauln6 - January 1, 2012

Well, I do understand that drama is the key to a successful movie, I just prefer that internal story logic doesn’t suffer too much in the process. These aren’t all or nothing arguments. Some of your comments are valid and it is just a matter of interpretation, for some we were talking at cross purposes because you had misinterpreted what I was trying to say, some overlooked information that was given in the movie, some just depend upon what you want to take from a movie, and for some a wizard (or Q) did it. Superman’s powers are a great example since his super hearing is physically impossible as portrayed in the movies due to the speed of sound but that doesn’t stop us enjoying the movies (although I’m more of an X-man fan myself).

There are lots of shades of grey (although stumbling into Spock in a cave crosses the threshold for me – lol). I don’t think, based on the information we know and what the characters’ knew, that simply pursuing Nero in the damaged, communicationless ship was the best plan or even a good plan. I don’t think that rendezvousing with the fleet was a good plan or the best plan. However to keep the Enterprise as the focus of the story either they have to come up with some lame excuse e.g. being the only ship in range, ignore other sensible options, or write the story in such a way that there is no other possible option. The third option is my preference and with a few tweaks I think they could have achieved it. Still if you’d like to carry on with the debate, just cite the specific points where you feel my argument is weak and I’ll have a pop at justifying my position! ;P

209. Pauln6 - January 1, 2012

So, for example notifying Earth or Andoria allowing them to mount a defence outside the solar system or allowing Earth to activate its defences with new codes could mean that Nero was delayed long enough to allow Enterprise to catch up and implement her plan. We don’t have to scratch our heads wondering why Nero travelled to Vulcan so quickly (taking time to destroy 47 Klingon ships) and Earth so slowly and, if Nero has to deactivate the shields to deploy the drill that still leaves the ship a small window to get the strike team on board.

210. dmduncan - January 1, 2012

209. Pauln6 – January 1, 2012

But you see I’m not scratching my head because I’m not fighting with the movie, just as I don’t scratch my head over not seeing Scotty’s reaction to the destruction of Vulcan. Since he knew it had occurred I assumed he had a reaction just as he had an understanding of it’s destruction, neither of which I witnessed, and nether of which I thought were relevant to show onscreen in order to convey the idea that he knew it had happened.

That’s not a plot hole. What you seem to be calling plot holes are the things you didn’t see happen, and because you didn’t see them happen — Nero blasts Scotty’s comm making contact with Earth or Andor impossible — it doesn’t make sense to you why it turned out the way it did. Now, whether or not Nero blasted Scotty’s comm is a funny question because it’s not a real universe and none of the details we didn’t see happened.

I.e., if you manufacture reasons why it didn’t make sense, you can also manufacture reasons why it did, if you put the same effort in that direction.

Choosing one or the other path reflects whether you’ve chosen the path of surrender to or conflict with the movie.

211. dmduncan - January 1, 2012

it’s = its

212. Keachick - rose pinenut - January 1, 2012

Mike Johnson – I have just ordered the entire Ongoing series Vol. 1 on Amazon.com, which is due out in March in the US. Because I live outside the US, the cost to me is US$19.44 instead of US$9.46. The handling and shipping cost more than the comics themselves…LOL That is still to be converted into NZ dollars. I guess that will happen when they get your completed series in their hot lil’ hands. I won’t receive the comics until April.

So you see, I need these issues and the final two to be good. Keep up that writing, dude. Make it a good one…:)

At the moment I cannot get hold of the entire DVD collection of the Star Trek TOS series. When I could, the cost to me was prohibitive. Even if I ordered online through Amazon, there would be shipping and handling costs added and after conversion to NZ dollars, it could still be a wee bit expensive for me.

213. Keachick - rose pinenut - January 1, 2012

I think there was a female admiral at Kirk’s trial sitting with the others. It would have been better if she got the speaking part, just to illuminate that there was/could be a competent woman overseeing trials, hearings etc. I guess, and I hate to say this, that this Star Trek movie series needs to exercise some affirmative action when it comes to showing a greater female presence in the many varied roles that women want and need to be, whether she be either, and/or, girlfriend/wife, mother, communications officer, security officer, scientist, navigator, medical physician and/or nurse, tutor and so on.

214. Red Dead Ryan - January 1, 2012

I hope to see Nurse Chapel and Lieutenant Rand in the sequel.

If Zoe Saldana wants to shoot bad guys as she has repeatedly said in previous articles, they can make Uhura the tactical officer/chief of security and Rand can be the communications officer.

It might be the best way to change things up while not upsetting everyone.

I think Rand was communcations officer when she served on the Excelsior. But that was when she was significantly older.

215. NCM - January 1, 2012

190. mikejohnson – December 31, 2011

But wait! There’s more! It’s a New Year’s Giveaway!

Yes! Am I number 3?

216. NCM - January 1, 2012

193. mikejohnson – December 31, 2011
We are indeed embracing the fact that this is an ONGOING series…you will start to see how things that happened in one story will be referenced and affect things in later stories… eventually tying into the next movie.

Your posts are always informative and encouraging. Thanks so much. Can hardly wait for the next episode–Operation Annihilate a favorite; love the cover, and it’s really exciting to know that you plan to deviate from the original tale, significantly; especially ’cause I can’t imagine how.

217. MJ - January 1, 2012

@212. Keachick, there are multiple listings on the Star Trek DVD set available on Ebay-Australia. I tried to provide a link here, but the system deleted my post.

218. Pauln6 - January 1, 2012

210 – Lol – I’m not fighting with the movie; I do understand what they were trying to achive. However, I’m expressing opinions on how I think a few tweaks here and there could have improved the story logic – call them plot holes, omissions, warps in the credibility filed or whatever you like. If you are happy to overlook its flaws then there is nothing to debate and we can just retain our own opinions.

You’re right that I am troubled by Scotty’s lack of interest in Vulcan’s destruction because of the absence of story logic to the situation. His reaction to the destruction may indeed have been off camera but he still looks rather callous when he is just lying around snoozing mere hours after it happens and all he can think about is his own stomach when a Vulcan turns up. The scene is strongly suggestive that he is unaware of the destruction.

I never assumed that Delta Vega was in the same system let alone close enough to see Vulcan the size of the moon in the sky (I assumed that was an abstract part of the mind meld). The habitable zone in a solar system isn’t that wide, Vulcan’s gravity is only slightly more than Earth’s, and at that distance seen in the mind meld Delta Vega would have suffered from the effects of the increased gravity of the new black hole. We don’t know how strong a black hole has to be to swallow a planet in seconds and it’s likely that it wouldn’t have enough mass to sustan itselfs for very long once the red matter had been used up but even if that is true, in the short term he’d still have a lot more to worry about than food packs. But then, if Vulcan was that close, why did Scotty need a supply ship at all? He could fly to Vulcan himself (although admittedly his shuttle looked a bit knackered), order take-out, or beam supplies over.

I’m also concerend about his lack of interest is an escape pod broadcasting an emergency signal on the planet. What he should do is beam the occupant to the base where it is warm and safe. We don’t know exactly how cold the planet is but walking 14 KM across rough terrain in heavy snow could take anything up to a day. Overlooking the signal for a day is terrible like being on a 911 switchboard and just letting the phone ring. This could have been covered by Kirk noticing that the emergency signal broke in the landing but then why not use his own communicator? Because Spock marooned him with no communicator? A communicator should be part of the standard kit in the emergency supplies of an escape pod so Spock would have to physically remove the thing. Again, if that’s true it’s either a terribly wicked or incompetent way for these characters to behave.

Of course Nero could have destroyed Scotty’s comms (but then why not mention it) or they might be broken (but then what has the finest miracle-working engineer in Starfleet been doing for the last 6 months if nothing on his base works). Or we could hand wave it away… maybe Scotty hated the Vulcans because they were under orders from Archer not to supply him with take-out and he was glad they were all dead? Maybe he assumed the escape pod was from Vulcan and he was hoping the occupant would freeze or starve to death?

There are many possible explanations but most of them don’t really make sense unless Scotty is a total tool. Just my opinion :P

219. Desstruxion - January 1, 2012

I kind of like the new comic book series. The artwork has the feel of TOS while putting the new reality’s flair into it. I’d really like to see some different classes of starships in upcoming issues. Maybe an Abramsverse, Botany Bay for instance. A refit NX class seen at a starbase would be pretty cool.

220. Pauln6 - January 1, 2012

@ 214 – I’d rather Rand remained a non-com personally. As Kirk’s yeoman she would be in the perfect position to get involved in the action because she can be wherever he is. She doens’t need to be a senior officer to contribute to the story and I rather like the fact that she isn’t.

I’m less sure about Chapel. Being a nurse seems far more limiting for her as opposed to being a scientist in the life science department. She is usually going to be stuck at McCoy’s side or chained to sickbay. At least as a biologist she would be filling a niche that is currently unoccupied by another character.

I certainly wouldn’t be averse to seeing a female security chief too but I’d quite like to see a female andorian in the post. I did a little comic strip where I cut and pasted Suzie Plakson’s head onto a security guard uniform and she looks pretty cool.

221. MJ - January 1, 2012

@218 “You’re right that I am troubled by Scotty’s lack of interest in Vulcan’s destruction because of the absence of story logic to the situation. His reaction to the destruction may indeed have been off camera but he still looks rather callous when he is just lying around snoozing mere hours after it happens and all he can think about is his own stomach when a Vulcan turns up. The scene is strongly suggestive that he is unaware of the destruction.”

This is the same Scotty that would defend his Captain when insulted in a bar buy Kiingons, but then threw a punch when the Klingon’s criticized the Enterprise. Scotty is a techno-dwebe, and doesn’t have a lot of sentimentality (although that changed as he got older in the movies), so I thought it was fully consistent of him to not have an on-screen tear fest over Vulcan. Additionally, at that point in his career in this alternative universe, he may not have had much personal interaction with Vulcans, and probably never traveled there yet.

Besides, the idea of wanting a special extra scene to have Scotty react to Vulcan’s destruction seems like nitpicking to me. Its funny that these sorts of minor things bother you, but you don’t bring up the Budgeneering issue or how a single star going nova can threaten the entire galaxy…those are about the only things that bothered me in the entire movie.

222. MJ - January 1, 2012

Mike Johnson, is there an email address for you that DM Duncan, NCM and I should send our mailing info to you on for your comics collection giveaway offer?

Much appreciated, Mike. And you have definitely got me excited about the future direction of your Trek comics series!

223. dmduncan - January 1, 2012

218: “If you are happy to overlook its flaws then there is nothing to debate and we can just retain our own opinions.”

It’s not that I am overlooking flaws. I am disagreeing with you that they are there.

“he still looks rather callous when he is just lying around snoozing mere hours after it happens and all he can think about is his own stomach when a Vulcan turns up. The scene is strongly suggestive that he is unaware of the destruction.”

I’d say he looks as affected, given whatever time had elapsed, as Kirk and Spock do by that same time, both of whom we know witnessed it directly. And since I accept Kirk’s and Spock’s reactions by that time, then I also accept Scotty’s.

“I never assumed that Delta Vega was in the same system let alone close enough to see Vulcan the size of the moon in the sky (I assumed that was an abstract part of the mind meld).”

Nero marooned him there specifically to watch the destruction of Vulcan, which we saw destroyed in the sky.

The rest of what you say exhibits the danger of comparing fiction to reality too closely, specifically with respect to Star Trek. Looks like you also do it selectively, which if true proves you know how NOT to do it, or else you would also be condemning Star Trek from its inception for having an inexplicable source of gravity on the Enterprise, or the ability to transport people to locations without receiving pads to recombine transportees.

Maybe you also do that, and are just not doing it now. But if you are a fan, which it is reasonable to presume you are since you are here on this site and bothering to comment, then you also know how not to do it and how to accept Star Trek for what it has always been, which is not hard SF. (Indeed, even much of hard SF is predicated on beliefs — the nature of consciousness, what alien life will look like when we find it — which may turn out to be false making the stories told in it more akin to drama with fantastical elements, though we see such stories now as perhaps someday being possible.)

Most of us fans accept that sort of thing, and those important features, inexplicable though they may be, do establish the universe of the franchise, which ST.09 was perfectly consistent with — and should be. In fact, with respect to time travel, it surpassed in sophistication what TOS was accustomed to portraying by implying the MWI/QM.

Bottom line: We call Star Trek science fiction, but it is much closer to what Harlan Ellison does than what Isaac Asimov does, because Star Trek bends the rules. Even though it’s labeled as science fiction and the science part comes first? It’s actually the fiction that’s the more primary element of Star Trek.

224. MJ - January 1, 2012

Happy New Year to Everyone, especially including Anthony Pascale, Bob Orci, Red Dead Ryan, Basement Blogger, Keachick, Captain Mike, Harry Ballz, NCM, Vulan, DM Duncan, AJ, Mike Johnson, Pauln6, Captain Nell, and all of the rest of your regulars that I converse, have fun or joust with on these boards with.

My new years resolution is to try to be less of an a-hole at times on these boards and be more understanding of others’ opinions.

MJ

225. MJ - January 2, 2012

@223 “Bottom line: We call Star Trek science fiction, but it is much closer to what Harlan Ellison does than what Isaac Asimov does, because Star Trek bends the rules. Even though it’s labeled as science fiction and the science part comes first? It’s actually the fiction that’s the more primary element of Star Trek.”

Well said DM. So if one expects ST to have the hard sf technological aspects of Arthur C. Clarke and a Tom Clancy-like precision on military operations, then then are always going to be unnecessarily nitpicking the show. The show is what is is, and the result has pleased pleased most of us over time I think.

226. mikejohnson - January 2, 2012

@ 222

Yup. Email your mailing address to mikecomixcontest@gmail.com and I’ll get those out to you…

227. mikejohnson - January 2, 2012

@ 219

You’ll see other starship classes popping up over the next year.

228. mikejohnson - January 2, 2012

@ 216

Thanks NCM. I hope you enjoy issues 5 & 6. You’ll see some familiar elements, and some VERY different twists on the original timeline (spoiler alert: last page of #5). Joe Corroney’s the interior artist on these two and he’s doing great work.

229. mikejohnson - January 2, 2012

@212

Thanks so much for ordering the books! I’ll do my best to make it worth the trouble :) My family’s from Australia, so your corner of the planet is near & dear to me. I’ve watched my fair share of the All Blacks over the years…

Have you looked into getting the comics digitally? I always encourage people to visit their local comic shop, but in your case you might be able to get them sooner online. Check out iTunes and the Comixology/IDW app. I hope they’re available for you.

230. Pauln6 - January 2, 2012

They have gravity on the ship because of the artificial gravity generators. The real world reason is is because it would cost too much to have our characters floating around all the time. But I also like there to be limits to the technology and the requirment to suspend disbelief for the sake of the story. The transporters were originally a story tool that allowed easy access to planets and ships and were occasionally used as the basis for the plot. I get uneasy every time Pandora’s box of technobabble is opened because once a new layer is added, it’s out there forever and we have to take account of it for future stories. Long distance transporting has massive story repercussions that takes it way beyond its original purpose in TOS. Thus is makes me nervous.

I am also happy for logic to be strained up to a point for the sake of telling a story. However, Star Trek’s strength is telling human interest stories in a fantasy setting. I’m not happy for characters to act in ways that would be stupid, callous, or ludicrous by our modern standards unless there is some express story purpose behind it.

Spock omitting an opportunity to use the comms equipment on Delta Vega (or even checking that he could use it) defies story logic. Scotty leaving Kirk wandering the planet defies story logic. Making Kirk a captain after only three days out of the acadamy defies all logic! Spock in a random cave – facepalm. Female officers cowering on missions as often as they did in TOS defies story logic. Thus they irritate and amuse me. I do accept many of Star Trek’s flaws but it’s also entertaining to poke fun at its flaws. I laugh at the silliness and I still enjoy the franchise tremendously. If you don’t enjoy poking fun at its flaws, there’s nothing wrong with that either. IDIC :P

231. Desstruxion - January 2, 2012

#226 You’ll see other starship classes popping up over the next year.
—————————-
Looking forward to it.

232. Zarm R'keeg - January 2, 2012

Completely flumoxed that there are people that don’t like this comic series- I find the concept awesome, and while the execution has been mediocre to me in the last three issues, this one was FANTASIC, and has got me even more pumped for this series than I was in the past; I love the new twist on the story! This is the first comic series I’ve ever bought, and I’m eating it up; I just hope that the introduction of new stoylines (as we’ll see in March/April) doesn’t mean an end to the reimaginings, which is what really hooks me- a nice balance of each would be the ideal!

233. NCM - January 2, 2012

227. mikejohnson – January 2, 2012:
“hope you enjoy issues 5 & 6. You’ll see some familiar elements, and some VERY different twists on the original timeline.”

Nothing short of a coma would prevent me enjoying 5 & 6 and all that follow. I love the new U and the comics (even if I’d like to see the franchise raise the plausibility bar). Your promises of “very different twists” have me enjoying the idea of exploring re-imagined stories more than I’d imagined. Love it!

234. MJ - January 2, 2012

@230 “Long distance transporting has massive story repercussions that takes it way beyond its original purpose in TOS.”

Long distance? The ship was only a couple of hours out from Delta Vega when they transported onto the Enterprise?

235. MJ - January 2, 2012

@230 “Making Kirk a captain after only three days out of the academy…”

HE SAVED THE ENTIRE FEDERATION FROM BASICALLY BEING BLACK HOLE-NUKED.

236. Red Dead Ryan - January 2, 2012

Y’know, I really hate it when people bitch about so-called “plot-holes” when all they had to do in the first place was to pay attention to the fu@kin’ movie!

#235.

“HE SAVED THE ENTIRE FEDERATION FROM BASICALLY BEING A BLACK HOLE-NUKED.”

And not only that, MJ, but Starfleet lost a lot of officers, including captains, at the hands of Nero, just before the destruction of Vulcan.

Starfleet recognized there was a much smaller pool of candidates for starship captaincy, and realized that Kirk had what it took to command the Enterprise after showing his ability to make quick command decisions in a high pressure situation.

So it came down to Kirk saving Earth and the Federation, and Starfleet’s need for not just any captain, but a new kind of captain.

237. Red Shirt Diaries - January 3, 2012

PaulN6, as MJ and Read Dead Ryan have covered, Kirk saved probably more than 10 trillion lives on the main Federation worlds based on his actions. Given this, and the unique situation involved, it is a no-brainier that he was given the Enterprise and the captaincy promotion that goes with it. What is your issue with that?

Did you see the same movie that the rest of us saw?

238. Keachick - rose pinenut - January 3, 2012

There is no indication that Kirk was immediately promoted to captain. Once everyone had got back to earth, there would have been reports made and considered and possibly disciplinary action taken, although unlikely under the circumstances, Kirk’s hearing re the Kobiyashi Maru simulation incident and a ruling given and review of remaining Starfleet personnel and their qualifications. Admiral Pike most likely recommended Kirk for promotion and after due consideration, a decision was made to promote him, with Kirk being told that his promotion was not necessarily unanimous and could be probationary.

Anyway, that is how I see how things could have gone. Unfortunately the movie gave no indication of time between certain events…something the writers need to improve upon with the next film.

239. NCM - January 3, 2012

You can argue that promoting cadet Kirk to Captain after his series of extreme indiscretions–cheating on KM, stowing away on Enterprise, mutinous insubordination on Bridge–and despite his extremely brief period of field experience is a ‘no-brainer’ because it paid off miraculously and, yes, with bravery, foresight, and skill; but surely you can see why others might think Fleet would at least want to test him further; put him under guidance of an experienced captain, see what they’re dealing with before handing over ship and crew to a young and extreme rebel–no?

For Star Fleet to break with rule, regulation, and tradition and embrace Kirk-style command suggests a highly flexible, risk taking SF model; quite different from the one that supported the iconic Kirk vs Fleet bureaucracy paradigm, don’t you think?

240. Jai - January 3, 2012

A belated Happy New Year to the Trekmovie gang. Sorry for being late to the party. Accidentally left the parking brake on ;)

241. NCM - January 3, 2012

Happy New Year, Jai.

242. Pauln6 - January 3, 2012

Being a captain isn’t all about blowing stuff up. What about diplomacy, negotiation, bureaucracy, the ability to follow orders you may not agree with (not all of which will involve trillions of lives), and the ability to keep a cool head? In none of Kirk’s debates did he put forward a coherent winning argument without losing his cool when challenged. He he did just about pass muster with Uhura’s help on persuading Pike about the danger but it was her calm support that tipped the scales.

Kirk’s achievements were extra-ordinary and we know that he will make a good captain because that is what the writers want to convey. Even so, taking a step backwards and being objective, he is very young, very inexperienced and at this point in time his personality lacks certain things that captains need. Kirk should probably have been made a first officer for a couple of years while he learned the ropes fully. Making a man who doesn’t follow orders he doesn’t like the top dog who can ignore all the advice of his more experienced juniors could be a recipe for disaster.

There is nothing majory wrong with that level of cheese though. It just represents taking a step away from adult sci fi more towards children’s sci fi.

243. NCM - January 3, 2012

@242: Well said, unfortunately. I love Trek, but it’s always been cheesy science fiction. I do wish the powers that be would upgrade it to light sci fi. In doing so, I think they’d better serve the fans and even expand the base. Can’t imagine anyone would be disappointed to find Trek a bit more believable.

244. Red Shirt Diaries - January 3, 2012

@242 “There is nothing majory wrong with that level of cheese though. It just represents taking a step away from adult sci fi more towards children’s sci fi.”

Sheesh, that is utterly ridiculous. Children’s scifi? I provide some reasoning as to my point of view, while you largely provide some platitudes and one-liners that infer those of us who don’t have problems with his promotion are children? Here is some more reasoning for you….

I will repeat. He save at least 10 trillion lives. Yes, I could see some of those in the lead at Starfleet not wanting to give him the Captaincy, but don’t you think Kirk’s accomplishment of saving the primary Federation worlds from imminent destruction was “front page news” on every Federation World. Can you imagine the public and media outcry if they didn’ give him command of the Enterprise.

Also, don’t forget that it is very likely that Spock Prime spoke private to the leaders of the Federation and Starfleet to let them know that he has first hand knowledge that Kirk was going to be needed by the Federation in the years to come as Captain of the Enterprise.

Really PaulN6, you must learn to govern your passions; they will be your undoing.

245. MJ - January 3, 2012

Red Shirt,

Not only that, but recall at the promotion ceremony that Spock Prime is in the upper balcony viewing the ceremony as if he had a major hand in the promotion. Yes, I can see where Spock Prime’s apriori knowledge of Kirk was obviously a factor in getting the Starfleet brass to do something unusual here.

Spock Prime is in the balcony watching the promotion ceremony play out as if he had been the one to make it happen.

246. NCM - January 3, 2012

224. MJ – January 1, 2012: “My new years resolution is to try to be less of an a-hole at times on these boards and be more understanding of others’ opinions.”

That is good news, MJ, and I missed it up until now. I’m making a similar effort. I find it hard not to take shots at rude posts, but it’s gotta be a drag for just about everyone here to have to read through all the uncivil discourse to get to meaningful content.

Let’s hope others will choose to engage more civilly this year. ~ All the best!

247. Pauln6 - January 3, 2012

Tut tut. I said it was moving away from adult sci fi and towards children’s sci fi. It’s not a black and white comparison. They are different genres with different perspectives. Nor did I suggest that adults couldn’t legitimately enjoy children’s sci fi and vice versa. I consider Star Wars to be a chidren’s franchise and it has many adult fans. Another example might be the Lord of the Rings movies vs the Narnia movies. They just take different approaches to their story material.

Once again, taking a step back and being objective, current thinking is that roughly 50% of our behaviour results from our DNA and 50% from our upbringing – which can mean the difference between a stockbroker and a seriel killer. NuKirk may not react in the same way as Kirk Prime – shy bookworm vs teen delinquent. Kirk Prime bcame a captain when he was what – somewhere between 28 – 32 after a stable upbringing, a traumatic experience with Kodos, and 4-8 years in Starfleet working his way up the ranks and learning from his superiors. I’m not sure whay Spock Prime would believe that delinguent Kirk would make just as good a captain with an unstable upbringing, repeated criminal offences, and a week of experience learning how to buck the system. They have the same genes but they are VERY different people. Cutting NuKirk loose with only the guidance and supervision of NuSpock, who he disobeyed when he was his superior officer, doesn’t seem wise to me…

248. Red Shirt Diaries - January 3, 2012

@247 “I’m not sure whay Spock Prime would believe that delinguent Kirk would make just as good a captain with an unstable upbringing, repeated criminal offences, and a week of experience learning how to buck the system. They have the same genes but they are VERY different people. Cutting NuKirk loose with only the guidance and supervision of NuSpock, who he disobeyed when he was his superior officer, doesn’t seem wise to me…”

But SpockPrime “knew” nuKirk was the real deal, becuase he:

(1) Mind-melded with him, so he could assess his qualifications/abilities better than any Starfleet test (and you know what, SpockPrime found out that nuKirk WASN’T ALL THAT DIFFERENT from KirkPrime);

(2) Sent him on a mission, in which nuKirk excelled more brilliantly than even SpockPrime could have anticipated.

What more do you want? This should be obvious to anyone who watched the move one would think…even children. ;-)

249. Pauln6 - January 3, 2012

Well actually the mind meld could be a very important factor since it can leave echoes behind. You make a good point there in that seeing the reflection of what he could be in Spock’s mind might have a profound effect on Kirk’s psyche. Equally, Spock Prime might overlook some of NuKirk’s idiosycrasies once it all gets mixed in with Kirk Prime. Sounds inexact to me…

250. MJ - January 3, 2012

@249. There we go Pauln6, you are making progress! :-)

251. Pauln6 - January 4, 2012

I’m always willing to concede a valid point ;-P

252. Pauln6 - January 4, 2012

A mind-meld induced flashback could even be one way of featuring some of the TOS actors in any sequels.

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