Watch: First Clip of Brian Gross As Star Trek: Phase II’s New Kirk | TrekMovie.com
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Watch: First Clip of Brian Gross As Star Trek: Phase II’s New Kirk July 22, 2012

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: New Voyages/Phase II , trackback

A month ago we reported that the popular fan series Star Trek: Phase II has recast their Kirk with actor Brian Gross. Now producer (and former Kirk) James Cawley has released the first video showing Gross in a scene from his first episode "Blood and Savagery." Watch it below.    

 

First clip featuring Phase II’s new Kirk

Here is a clip from the Star Trek Phase II’s episode "Bread and Savagery," which is a sequel to the TOS episode "Bread and Circuses." It features Brian Gross as the new Kirk along with Brandon Stacy as Spock and guest star Daren Dochterman as proconsul Claudius Marcus. Note that this clip is an early cut and without the sound properly edited.

UPDATE: Video has been set to private. Apparently this was a limited time type of thing. TrekMovie is trying to get the video re-released, possibly temporarily.

Filming on "Bread and Savagery" wrapped up in June and it is now in post-production. There are still a number of other episodes featuring Cawley as Kirk which are also in post-production so we wont be seeing Gross’ Kirk take over for a while.

Comments

1. brady - July 22, 2012

Wow, Darren is actually not a bad actor.

2. Anthony Thompson - July 22, 2012

1. brady

Agreed Great work, DD!

3. Mott's Mop - July 22, 2012

Sorry but that was just plain old bad, it felt, corny, overacted and forced. Not feeling it whatsoever. Still good luck to them.

4. MJ - July 22, 2012

WOW, what a difference!!!!! Great job James Cawley in making this gutsy and obviously personally difficult casting change — this guy is Kirk!

5. Carl LaFong - July 22, 2012

Darren is channeling the spirit of Logan Ramsey! Well done, sir…

6. SuperBat - July 22, 2012

Horrid acting. Horrid dialogue. Though the second might be to blame for the first.

7. dmduncan - July 22, 2012

I dunno. Playing Kirk may be the Rubik’s Cube of acting roles. You have to have some big cojones to even try it.

Daren Dochterman is perfect for his role.

Curious to see how the whole thing turns out.

8. sean - July 22, 2012

He looks like John Henry from the Sarah Connor Chronicles.

9. MJ - July 22, 2012

This guy to me looks half Pine-Kirk, half Shat-Kirk, and the smart-alicky grin that Cawley always had (not his fault — it was just his face/mannerisms) is no longer. This guy looks very credible as Kirk.

10. Red Dead Ryan - July 22, 2012

I’ll have to wait until Brian Goss is wearing the gold and black uniform. I was unable to form an opinion based on what I saw.

#8.

He looks nothing like John Henry.

11. Dunsel Report - July 22, 2012

Love Dochterman. But Kirk here feels like he is infringing on Dr. McCoy’s patented hissy fits, in acting and dialogue, rather than being Kirk. He seems a little insecure for a Kirk.

12. Driver - July 22, 2012

in my city there is plot of land on a major road where many businesses have tried but failed to be successful. It is a cursed location.

13. Hugh Hoyland - July 22, 2012

While I enjoyed Crawleys Kirk (Mostly because I sensed his love for the character) this might actually turn into something on a different level.

Not bad at all for a rough cut.

14. Andy - July 22, 2012

Not to be a downer, but this felt incredibly cheesy. Personally I think it’s the lack of production value, and not necessarily the acting. Hope the best for them, however.

15. sean - July 22, 2012

#10

You really see NO resemblance? At the very least, they could be brothers.

http://cdn.c.ooyala.com/h4bnMyOsR-2j2aGlnJkGgFLw3JVqlgeJ/promo46053843

16. Keachick - July 22, 2012

Captain Kirk, “….burn in hell for what you did…”

What? I do not recall nor can I imagine Kirk saying something like that.

All I can honestly say is – thank goodness, there are professional writers and actors working on the Star Trek film franchise right now.

17. Guy from Berlin - July 22, 2012

make a better scene solution, take a real DOP, take a light and make a soundmix …. and after all: make a color grading. You would wondering … you have a filmlook like motion picture ;-)

18. Destructor1701 - July 22, 2012

Not sure I can form an opinion on this guy.

So far, he seems less distinctive than Cawley was – Cawley’s obvious physical dissimilarity to Shatner allowed a certain dissimilarity in the character to get through my suspension of disbelief.

This guy may not benefit from it, but time will tell.

And he totally looks like John Henry from TSCC.

19. Guy from Berlin - July 22, 2012

The quadrage is ugly … the entirely photography is ugly … damn, so much potential for waste ….

20. a - July 22, 2012

I am admittedly biased, but I think Brian was awesome as Kirk. He looks the part, is a professional actor with legitimate credits, and is about the right age. Plus he was an awesome guy that everyone on set liked.

I think you will see Brian grow in this role. Wait till you see the vingette “Going Boldly” and then the whole episode.

And Daren was UNBELIEVABLE. Damn he is so good in this role.

Alec

21. Romneylan Star Empire - July 22, 2012

I’m sorry, but he isn’t convincing at all as Kirk. A starship captain? Absolutely. But if you didn’t know it was New Voyages/Phase II, you’d have no idea it was Kirk. Having said that, certainly looks good for a rough cut of a fan series that “takes place” circa 1970. I’m very intrigued by the Romulans being involved. I always thought it was logical to assume they interfered in the planet’s development way back, and the Magna Romans emulated them similar to the Chicago planet whose name escapes me.

Casting James T. Kirk and doing it believably has to be the hardest role in show business. Shanter has such a distinct voice, delivery and look (hence why none of the merchandise ever looks like him) it’s nearly impossible to do without coming off as a parody.

22. Captain Otter - July 22, 2012

For the cast and crew, I’m sure it is a rewarding hobby and for the fans, to each their own. I just can’t get into Phase II.

23. GarySeven - July 22, 2012

Daren Dochterman was perfect as Claudius Marcus. His voice intonations, his facial expressions were spot on. It reminded me of how Karl Urban channeled DeForest Kelly so well.
The Kirk actor, well, he was not Kirk. He overacted, acted badly, and the character was so angry and unconfident (Shatner’s Kirk smirked and/or handled the stress more gracefully with Marcus).

24. GarySeven - July 22, 2012

I wonder if Claudius Marcus is related to Carol Marcus? They have similar names, you know.

25. GarySeven - July 22, 2012

And both caused a lot of trouble for Kirk, if you think about it.

26. Sewanee - July 22, 2012

This scene wasn’t my cup of tea.

The thing that frustrates me about Cawley is that he starts many projects and never finishes them: for example, STar TRek: Origens, Buck Rogers, Wild Wild West, etc.

Why?

27. El Chup - July 22, 2012

Painfully, painfully bad acting. But then no worse than the earlier New Voyages actors.

28. Sneering Supercomputer - July 22, 2012

Oh lord this new guy is bad.

29. Sneering Supercomputer - July 22, 2012

but I like Dochterman in this clip… he reminds me of Brian Cox.

30. webitube - July 22, 2012

I’m not sure yet about the Brian Gross’ Kirk, but I really like DD’s Claudius Marcus! Well done, sir!

31. Buzz Cagney - July 22, 2012

The thing is, now they’ve made the change to professional actors, the pressure is increased to see a professional job.
When it was a crowd of keen amateurs having fun MOST of us were happy to overlook the obvious talent shortfall. Now, however, they’ve upped the expectation level and on this, admittedly limited and unfinished, clip i’m not seeing it.
Maybe when its fully realised? I hope so because i’ve mostly really enjoyed Phase II.

32. David C. Roberson - July 22, 2012

Horrible acting from all parties. And this coming from a pretty terrible actor in my own right!

33. Dave Thornton - July 23, 2012

In my opinion; as far as Phase 2 is concerned, You got what you paid for.
Also as a lifelong Trek fan who has seen all 700 + hours of the 5 television series as well as the 23 animated episodes and 11 movies,
It intriques me how picky and critical some fans seem to be about a free “on line” production which is made by other die hard devoted fans who out of love , take time out of their lives and busy schedules as well as spend their own hard earned money on making something we all claim we love and miss .As well as wish; we too, could do.

Yet for the past 20 plus years, anytime Paramount “slapped” the label “Star Trek” on either a Star Trek Movie or another television spin off version,
the very same fans often overlooked how bad it really was
because in their opinion,
“Any Trek was better than no Trek at all.”

Which honestly is part of the reason that we got what we did and why Star Trek eventually burned out , became oversaturated and is no longer on Televsion today.

So with that being said;
The last time I checked, no one was being charged to watch these fan made productions and No one was being forced to sit in front of their computer and download any of these hour long fan produced episodes either.
it’s rather hypocritical I.M.O. to make these kind of comments about other fans such as James Cawley and his crew for doing something most of us dont have the money ,time or talent to even attempt .

Yet no matter how bad the next remake/ redo/prequel or whatever we are blessed to recieve from Paramount might be,
A lot of the very same critics of Phase 2, will hold their noses and overlook it and then make excuses as well as defend stories, even if it make no sense and the Characters have no depth or interest.

Sadly for all the claims of following Gene Roddenberrys I.D.I.C. and acceptence and understanding,
It’s comments like a lot of these concerning Phase 2 and the other fan made Trek productions that cause Non Trek people to think Trek fans are middle aged basement dwellers who need to “get a life.”

34. Toonloon - July 23, 2012

I like new Kirk. He was good in his scene, although the editing didn’t help him out. Good editors make good actors look even better. I know this was a rough clip, but I hope the editors add some C/U’s and cutaway from some of the more ‘fixed’ moments (that’s when an actor stares at another one for too long).

Loved the Roman guy too, although I really don’t think that Zach Quinto’s stand in can cut it as an actor and Spock is a VERY difficult part.

One final thing, it looked like it was shot in England. Where’s the sun?

Well done Phase II guys. Looking forward to this hugely.

35. CaptRobau - July 23, 2012

I really like Roman proconsul. He’s channeling a bit of Game of Thrones’ eunuch Varys.

Gross is not bad at all, but I’ve gotten used to Cawley. He made sense as an older (but not movies old) Kirk.

36. X - July 23, 2012

Things to fix:
- lighting. If nothing else fix the lighting.
- Kirk needs to slow down a bit when talking
- show Kirk opening the communicator
- add some walking movement in the scene. Being originally a stage actor meant Shater liked to move around and use the space he was given.
- Kirk’s hair at the front
- Kirk stops before Spock stops him. Looks staged.
- awkward close up in the end, reminds me of the fat baby picture.
- maybe throw in an establishing shot at the start so it pooks less liked it was filmed in a small park corner.

Things that are perfect:
- Claudius (great pacing)

37. Basement Blogger - July 23, 2012

Before we criticize this clip, remember we’re seeing it out of context. So if Kirk is a little over the top; well don’t know why he’s so pissed off. That being said, it made me smile. Somebody is making Star Trek.

The better these productions become, will it have an effect on CBS? I’m guessing if the videos go viral, there might be. The Star Trek universe is a place I want to live in and I envy these actors who can do it.

38. Shamelord - July 23, 2012

He has more a Superman hairstyle than a Kirk’s lol

39. raffie - July 23, 2012

Looks like something I shot in my backyard :D

40. Calastir - July 23, 2012

Excellent portrayel of Bill Shatner’s Kirk by Brian Gross.
I can just imagine the tense 60′s TOS soundtrack in the background.

41. Jim Nightshade - July 23, 2012

Yah i dunno from this clip only…..he is not quite the kirk….I prefer Cawleys cuz this guy just seems too serious/angry intense whatever….now kirk was always a diplomat and very rarely lost his cool….except to other crew members like when he needed to knock spock around to snap him outta it hahah…This roman was needling Kirk and getting to Kirk real good in this clip…NOT good….It could be the fact we dont have anything else to judge but this one clip….if anything this is more like PIKE in the menagerie….all serious and intense pain little of the love of life and humor we later saw with the shat….Shatner is so underated as kirk…he nailed it like no one else ever has or ever will…I didnt like Cawley at first mainly cuz of the elvis hair hahah but he did grow in the role….perhaps the new guy will too but yah the shot did seem like it was done in the backyard and his body mechanics looks like hes gonna have a heart attack or stroke any second..spock better hold him back and calm him down sheesh

42. Keachick - July 23, 2012

#32 – I had no idea that the actor who played Kirk in this video was a professional actor. That being said, I simply did not like what I saw and heard on this video. It was overacted and the voice was thin, unlike the voices of either William Shatner or Chris Pine. Chris Pine’s voice does have a high pitched whine to it, however there is also depth and resonance which no doubt he is working on developing and using. However this is not the case in Brian Gross’s case.

Frankly, I do not see any reason to berate people who are not so enthusiastic about some of these amateur productions, as in the people behind the productions are not paid, nor necessarily have the same skills as more professional people have, who are paid for their work on movie and television productions. I admire the time and effort that James Cawley and others who do these productions give, but that does not mean I have to like or enjoy it.

You either like something or you don’t. I am sorry, but of the little I have seen and heard, it is not “my cup of tea” (as they say).

I await the Paramount/Bad Robot Untitled Star Trek Sequel to come to cinema screens next year, 17 May 2013.

43. Mark Lynch - July 23, 2012

I didn’t feel a Kirk vibe from this clip. But I will reserve judgement until I see the complete episode or a better clip…

What I will say is that the hairstyle on Kirk is better ;-)

44. Mark Lynch - July 23, 2012

Meant to say that Daren was great! Oh, for an edit button.

45. Lt. Dakin - July 23, 2012

Thanks to James Cawley. Looking forward to this!

46. mascaw - July 23, 2012

The acting may not be the best. But I and my 9 year old son enjoy the hell out of the phase2 series. They’ve given some fans something to look forward to and I find myself rewatching them just as much as the original. Looking forward to this.

47. Dom - July 23, 2012

Hmm…

Dubious. I really feel it would be better that the STP2 guys release finalised clips rather than rough unfinished clips. No material looks great in rough form and it ends up reflecting badly on the product. As an editor, I wouldn’t want my work seen in that state. Even if you make a complete graded, mixed edit of that one scene and release it, but change it later on, at least people will have an idea of the intended quality of the final product.

Just my two-penneth. Good luck though.

48. Toonloon - July 23, 2012

@ 46. Couldn’t agree more. I sometimes wonder about the creative control of this project. Sometimes they set themselves up for, what is now a predicatable kicking. I do wonder about Mr Crawley’s, or whoever is in charge, taste at times.

Seriously though, the negative comments are really disproportionate here.

They said it was a rough clip, so let’s not write all their work off, even if someone at the top decided to show this early and may not have shown themselves in a good light.

I totally agree with Dom on this. I think the rough quality of this clip has inspired a lot of the negative comments (although not all) and has probably brought disappointment and anger to the creative team behind it.

I’d hate to be the guy who played Kirk., now, reading all the comments here. He’s been pretty much crucified from the airing of one rough scene out of context. I’d be surprised if the gentleman sticks with this fan project if this is what he can expect.

49. Toonloon - July 23, 2012

BTW, I just tried to watch it again and I’m getting a “this video is private” message, which I didn’t get this morning. Looks like someone may have taken it down as a result of the comments here.

50. chrisfawkes.com - July 23, 2012

It won’t play for me here in Australia.

51. TheKeeper - July 23, 2012

I watched the video late last night…ugh…there might be James Cawley fans out there, but really all these are simply dreadfully made.
But I guess it keeps them off the streets.

52. Shat-Wow! - July 23, 2012

Pike? Yes. Kirk? Not in your wildest dreams. Still, I can’t wait to see it. I just hope I don’t have to wait until 2018 to do just that.

53. jamesingeneva - July 23, 2012

I’m getting the same thing about the video is private

54. Daoud - July 23, 2012

It won’t play for me here in America…. everything’s free in America, no?

55. ME!! - July 23, 2012

“This video is private”

56. Andy Patterson - July 23, 2012

You go Daren! Very fun. Well done. “You’re a Roman Kirk. Or you should’ve been”

57. Captain Braxton - July 23, 2012

“It won’t play for me here in America…. everything’s free in America, no?”

If you can afford it ;)

58. Alf - July 23, 2012

The video has been made “private” – is his acting really that bad??

59. Gary - July 23, 2012

“This video is private”

60. CmdrR - July 23, 2012

Odd. The clip won’t play for me, either… and not on the Phase II homesite either.
But, the message I get is in Chinese.

??

61. Calastir - July 23, 2012

Same here. What’s this? “Stay tuned for ‘Star Trek Pase II: The Retcon”? ;-)

62. Mikephys - July 23, 2012

I saw it last night. Claudius was spot on! Kirk shows promise. I think the new guy deserves a chance. Why not give him one? What do you have to lose?

63. Sebastian S. - July 23, 2012

Won’t play on my computer; lists as ‘private’ (even though I’m logged into Youtube). Oh well… just have to wait, I suppose (or check out the Phase II site).

64. Will Johnson - July 23, 2012

Since the video is private and I can’t actually watch this, I just want to say it’s not always the actor who sucks. It could be the editor sucks at picking takes… it could be that the director sucks at directing and instructed the editor to use bad takes.

Of course, it could be the actor. But let us not forget the “You’re a teacher? – Part time.” thing from the Crystal Skull trailer(where it’s a good delivery) VS the movie(where it’s an awful delivery). Yeah, that’s right, I just used Crystal skull to defend something.

65. Andy Patterson - July 23, 2012

Hey, what gies? Won’t play now.

66. drkmater - July 23, 2012

It would appear some people don’t like constructive criticism.

67. chrisfawkes.com - July 23, 2012

Isn’t it David Mamet who says there is no such thing as good or bad acting. That it all comes down to direction and and how the film or clip is cut?

68. Buzz Cagney - July 23, 2012

#34 hey, the Sun in out in Merry ol’ England today! At long last! Its been awful though, hasn’t it.

Hopefully the weather will play ball for the Olympics. Fingers crossed.

69. Montreal_Paul - July 23, 2012

You guys do know that this is raw footage, don’t you? It hasn’t been color corrected, no sound fixes, no cut aways, etc. Once everything is put together, you should have a better feel for this. I’ll reserve judgement until then.

70. DWNicolo - July 23, 2012

Screw all you internet snarks! I challange all you haters to do just as good or better then James Cawley, who’s been doing this for the last 10 years. James, what you’ve done is amazing. You’ve caught the spirit of the origional series 10 times over. Don’t let the internet trolls get you down.

71. Montreal_Paul - July 23, 2012

I had meant to write “rough edit” instead of “raw footage” … But you get the gist.

72. kerT ratS - July 23, 2012

constructive criticism – im not impressed

73. REM1701 - July 23, 2012

Anybody BUT! Crawley. I tire of him playing “dress-up” :-(

74. Captain Karl - July 23, 2012

this video is private

75. bmar - July 23, 2012

This Private is Video.

76. Anthony Pascale - July 23, 2012

The video seems to have been a limited time release. I am trying to get Phase II to extend the time available online.

77. denny cranium - July 23, 2012

I was there for the filming of this episode.
As stated in the description – it’s a rough cut/edit of this scene.
I can understand why some people, who only have seen this short clip, may be a bit critical. We are seeing this clip without seeing what happened before in previous scenes.
I won’t disclose any of the plot, (this story is incredible, by the way. Rick Chambers wrote an amazing script) but once everyone sees the completed episode, this scene will make more,if not perfect, sense to them.
Brian Gross did an incredible job playing Kirk in this episode.
Daren, was equally amazing as Claudius.
As far as Phase II goes, until you’ve been there and saw how hard everyone works on these episodes, please be constructive with your feedback.
Saying that the acting sucks or this or that sucks- please don’t bother.
If you have feedback that’s constructive- I think we want to hear it for the most part.
The goal of every episode is to be better than the last one.
If you have feedback that will help us do that, please offer it.
Also, please remember, we do this for the love of Star Trek, and yes, for you, the Star Trek fans. All of us worked our behinds off last June (at our own expense) to make the best product possible.
Lastly, if you like Phase II and if you’re able to, please donate to the production at our website- http://www.startreknewvoyages.com. Any donation is appreciated.

78. C Miles - July 23, 2012

In the meantime…

A nice interview/dialogue with James Cawley and his brief encounter with Jeri Ryan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0abH-ldJO4

Bummer about some of the comments here.

Clip was a New Kirk, was a early pre-prodcution release- hot studio- no budget- yet… folks here just can’t be pleased.

Phase II = fan fiction done by and for fans.

Don’t like it? Next time a Phase II thing goes up, just… don’t… click.

Instead, channel, the snark and go post at Ain’t it cool about how the 3rd Batman movie wasn’t as good as #2, or how 15 seconds of IMAX was out of focus.

Argh.

79. Jack - July 23, 2012

77. Thanks for the perspective. Nothing is easier than being an anonymous critic and throwing negative adjectives at something (especially something that’s free).

Heck, I’m used to it — but my stories get constant criticism online from people accusing me of bad journalism, terrible writing etc. without specifying anything (and usually in typo-filled, barely legible posts), often because they disagree with something said by someone I’ve interviewed. Point out specific problems or errors, sure. Disagree with opinions. Say you liked or didn’t like something… but it’s really easy to throw out words like terrible, lousy, sucks etc. and they don’t really mean anything.

It seemed like James Cawley had really tried to copy Shatner’s third-season rhythm and his facial expressions. I ownder whether ther actors are trying to do that. We forgive a lot in a 50-year-old show. What standards are we holding these guys to — modern film?

As a Trek fan watching these things, I think I was so amazed in the beginning by the quality of the sets, props and costumes that, yeah, I expected the performances to also be the same as the original series. Seeing the sets and then seeing fans (doing a decent job) on them was really jarring.

One thing I really would like to see — and am not sure how realistic this is — but a bit more of that 60s camp without it turning into parody. It would be great to see some of those “ooh la la – look at the sexy woman’ slow pans, the blurred lenses on pretty ladies and a lot of those great lighting effects of the first two seasons. I’d also love to see some of the crazy hairdos and the makeup on the women. The actress doing Uhura was fine — but she always just sort of looked like a normal woman in a costume to me (and not the dolled-up Uhura with the 60s hair we remember). Sure, this would have been around 1970 or 1971 had the series continued… but… again, all this is just me. I think the priority — telling stories, rather than merely paying homage to the look or to specific performance styles (ie. not just imitating Shatner, Nimoy, Doohan or Kelley) is a good one. It must be tough to play these guys as characters without it turning in to an SNL sketch.

80. Jack - July 23, 2012

“You either like something or you don’t. I am sorry, but of the little I have seen and heard, it is not “my cup of tea” (as they say).”

Fair enough. Why not just leave it at that. We all don’t have to have an opinion on everything. ;)

81. denny cranium - July 23, 2012

Jack,
Thanks for your feedback and your thoughts.
The lighting crew works really hard to “light Star Trek” as they put it.
They look at old episodes and painstakingly try to recreate the lighting. With great success, I might add.
We do, however, have a shooting schedule and have to get the episode shot.
They recast Uhura this episode. A great actress, Jasmine Peirce, did a fantastic job. Check out pictures of her on the phase II website. I think you’ll like what you see.
As far as some of that 60s camp goes?James Cawley does read the comments here on Trek Movie. He may plan something in that direction, I guess, if the story warrants it.
As far as parody concerns go? All of the actors playing these iconic roles are keenly aware of the shoes they have to fill. They all work very hard to honor those who came before them, while still putting their own stamp on it. A hard balancing act to be sure.
You’re correct about the story priority, though. The goal is to have the story come first. Wait until the finished product comes out. I think everyone will be impressed with Bread and Savagery.
It was my first shoot, but all the veterans there agreed. This episode is special. I’m so proud to have been involved with it.
Thanks again, Jack, for your input. Much appreciated

82. TLC - July 23, 2012

What I don’t understand from all the people that left “constructive criticism” on this page. Why do you bother to watch if you so obviously displeased by the Phase II group? Wouldn’t it be easier to just not watch instead of criticizing a dedicated group making hour-long episodes for you to watch for free. The solution is simple: don’t watch.

83. Fez - July 23, 2012

@79 Jack, as one of the many Phase 2 crew-members, At shoots and in my off time I catalogue the lighting and sets from TOS and Phase 2… in fact I can tell you that the Gaffer and I have had many many discussions on how to light certain scenes like the more moody and colorful first season of TOS, it is actually something we are trying to get to in the series.

What is to come very soon is going to be very very special

84. crazydaystrom - July 23, 2012

R.I.P Sally Ride

She went boldly where no American woman ever had gone before.

:-(

85. Mikey1091 - July 23, 2012

I’d love to say something about the video, but since it’s set to private for whatever reason, I can’t even view it. So until I CAN view it, I’m gonna keep my mouth shut, lol.

86. Lewis E. Kilgo - July 23, 2012

60′s camp? They do have a Harry Mudd script, and have tried to get it into production a few times. The stars just don’t want to align for that one, it seems.

87. Keachick - July 23, 2012

Gosh, Jack. I do not venture any kind of opinion on many of the threads posted here by the trekmovie staff. Either it is because I am not interested in the topic or don’t know enough to say what I, at least, would consider any kind of valid opinion.

I made a comment about part of script which had Kirk saying “burn in hell for what he did…”. I could be wrong, in that there may be an episode where the character Kirk did say something like that and with such vehemence, but I don’t think so and Kirk had to deal with some pretty awful, nasty, etc situations and people at times.

As for the comment about Brian Gross’s voice, well this is something he may be able to work on (or not). Chris Pine’s first attempts at playing Kirk in his first audition were not successful, however he was given constructive criticism and advice from a person watching the audition. Chris Pine went away and worked on it. Later he was successful, in good part, because he took the advice of this person and got to work.

88. Canadianknight - July 23, 2012

#33 – Bravo. Well said.

Personally, I thought Brian-as-Kirk was excellent. Over-the-top anger? Sure, but we don’t know WHY yet. Maybe it’s justified??? And Daren… damn good job on the Procounsel. Damn near eerie in fact. Love it!

89. sean - July 23, 2012

#87

FWIW, I agree with your criticism. The line just doesn’t work for Kirk. In fact, I can’t picture any of the TOS characters saying it. It’s a subtle thing, but it’s there.

RE: Folks saying stuff like ‘If you don’t like it, just don’t watch it”…fair enough, but this comes across like the old ‘You don’t like that movie? Well, why don’t *YOU* go out and make a movie!’.

90. Andy Patterson - July 23, 2012

Yeah, still can’t watch it.

And while I’m thinking about it,…..who do I talk to at Phase II about an order ( I thought I made ) to get some of those grey slave T shirts that the landing party wore in the original “Bread and Circuses”? It was on their site to help production costs. I thought I ordered them months ago. Haven’t received yet.

91. Toonloon - July 23, 2012

@ TLC 82. Sorry, but just because you think all of the negative/constructive feedback makes the posters here trolls, doesn’t change the fact that the creative team put a hastily assembled clip together, out of context, and before a community that has proven itself to be both rabidly positive and crushingly negative.

Not everyone here complained about Kirk’s hair. A lot of the comments were genuine and well meaning. But I must admit that a lot of the comments that can be described as negative, I really don’t understand them.

The fact of the matter is… as was pointed out earlier, James Cawley has been doing this for 10 years… he KNOWS how vocal the fanbase can be, and I’ve seen him receive an unfair kicking, many, many times. I’ve also seen very honest, and measure feedback towards areas that could be improved, so he should know that if he allows a quick edit of the new Kirk before ‘his audience’ then they are going to hyper-criticise it like a finished product.

If I was a conspiracy buff (looks over my should for Bob Orci) then I might think that he may actually want his new Kirk to fail, even if at some sub-conscious level). But I’ll stand by my original assessment of the footage when I saw it before they took it down… new Kirk looks very promising, but they really didn’t help him, or the other actors by thrusting an unfinished, out of context clip in front of a very hard to please audience.

And if they DID think that this was the best he had to offer, then I go back to my second point in that someone really lacks taste or understanding of what makes good acting or drama.

I feel so sorry for the Mr Gross, who everyone has said is a great guy and is a talented actor.

If they didn’t deliberately throw him under the bus, then they indavertantly did.

:(

92. tom pike - July 23, 2012

Looks like an adult film. Seriously, the acting is the exact same style! Hilariously awful.

93. James Cawley - July 23, 2012

The fact of the matter is, this was posted on my face book page and not intended for a story here on Trek movie. The clip is a rough assembly of the dailies for my friends and co workers. None of you know the context of the scene to warrant any kind of dialogue by any of the actors. Many of you are not aware of the hard work left to be done to the scene or the rest of the episode before it can be released. Mr. Gross is a terrific actor, and a pro who has worked on many prime time series. I find it amusing when someone says “Kirk would not say that line”… I have heard Kirk say a lot things I thought he would not say, but most of the time I thought that, it turns out the story made the line work and thus added to the character. sometimes not.
I could care less what many of the trolls have to say about me, Brian’s voice or whatever. The bottom line is am I pleased?, did I get what I paid for?, did I have a good time doing this? if I can answer to myself a resounding “yes” than I have achieved what I set out to do. I always set out to the best I can, and do it for the love of the game, nothing more.
I have learned to accept that yes there are those who do wish to give good, valid constructive criticism and it is welcome, but more often than not there are far too many who have nothing good to offer or say to anyone who works on the production, they merely post in these fan film threads to hurl the occasional insults. I really have to laugh at those folks and wonder what they are missing in their lives that they feel the need to attack others on the net, particularly fellow fans.
I have learned after all these years that there are far more who enjoy what we do than the far, far smaller vocal lot who seem to eagerly wait and pounce on any of the fan films that get written up here.
So I say to all of you Thank You, Phase II and myself are not going away anytime soon!

94. James Cawley - July 23, 2012

#92- I am so proud to call you a fellow Trek fan!

95. Al Hartman - July 23, 2012

@#48 There is no “Mr. Crawley.” Have the decency to get his name right.

96. Al Hartman - July 23, 2012

I thought Darren was great, and I’m looking forward to seeing more.

97. Daoud - July 23, 2012

The fact of the matter is, this was posted on my face book page and not intended for a story here on Trek movie.
.
(1) Anything posted on Facebook isn’t exactly private.
.
(2) Free publicity on one of the most active and most-followed Star Trek websites is a bad thing?
.
But, whadda I know? :)

98. Garth of Izar - July 23, 2012

Looking forward to this. The change in Kirk is far overdue – the other way it was unwatchable.

99. RAO - July 23, 2012

Jeez, I’ve always been a Cawley backer but don’t get so butthurt (sorry Mr. Takei) because you posted a rough clip on Facebook and most of the fans (IE those most likely to watch the yearly episode) didn’t buy the new Kirk. Is that “trolling?” I don’t think so. There’s alot of positives to take from the clip, especially the Proconsul, but the same old negatives. Perhaps addressing g them instead of whining would be more productive?

100. sean - July 23, 2012

I’d compare the ‘burn in hell’ line to the cut line from Star Trek VI where Scotty calls Azetbur a ‘Klingon bitch’. I imagine it was cut because everyone involved realized the line just didn’t work. It’s not something Scotty would say. I actually think the ‘you’ll burn in hell’ line is worse. Now, if we were talking about Captain Samuel L Jackson, I could buy it. “Yes those Klingons deserved to die, and I hope they burn in hell!”

101. Spike - July 23, 2012

Mr Cawley, just wanted to say thanks for all you and your crew do, for nothing other then the love of Star Trek. I am always looking forward to the next episode, knowing at some point I am going to call my wife in, rewind it and say,”honey you got to see this!” …so anyway thanks again, from one of your fans, Spike.

102. Buzz Cagney - July 23, 2012

I think reimagined TOS on the big screen would have happened in time. Lets face it the characters are just too compelling for it not too. But I honestly believe PhaseII was the show that kickstarted the process.
They clearly made it possible for the powers that be- and more importantly, the fans- to think the previously unthinkable: Namely that it would be possible to accept other actors in these iconic roles.
For that alone PhaseII deserves all credit. That it manages to demonstrate at times staggering levels of achievement deserves credit all the more.
I did struggle a little watching the new Kirk on this clip- perhaps i’d just got used to you, Mr Cawley? :)
Whatever, i’m looking forward to my initial reservations being put to rest when I see the completed show.
Whatever, I’m greatly looking forward to seeing the end result.

103. Jack - July 24, 2012

No, I don’t think the performances are parody at all — I just think it would be tough while doing it to figure out exactly which direction to would take. It’s a fine line between homage and parody.

And my questions weren’t meant as “it should be this way” — you guys have shown by now that you know what you’re doing.

And, James Cawley — thanks for doing this (New Voyages and Phase II). I don’t think anyone here realizes how much work, talent and money go into this. And, yeah, it would be pretty lousy to hear all this nonsense on a work in progress.

104. Jim Nightshade - July 24, 2012

Sorry if the comments offended or pissed ya off mr cawley sir—but its true that if this clip wasnt intended for fan perusual we didnt know that—most of us have great respect for you and phase 2—and all you do for fandom n luv of trek–its a helluva lot….i know we aint the only ones either as your cameo in trek 09 proves…i am sorry sir no disrespect for you and that scene n the nukirk were intended–

105. Azrael - July 24, 2012

@87. I can think of two similar incidents, off the top of my head.

1. Kirk: “Go to the Devil!” in a low nearly growling voice followed by the response “We have no Devil Kirk. But we understand the habits of yours.” in a much more even level voice from a Klingon.

2. “Kilngon Bastard you’ve killed my son! Kilngon Bastard!” that one should be pretty easy to place.

Just saying, Kirk was never a choir boy, just like he was never a Boy Scout.

106. Dom - July 24, 2012

102. Buzz Cagney: ‘I think reimagined TOS on the big screen would have happened in time. But I honestly believe PhaseII was the show that kickstarted the process.’

I don’t think so. The new Star Trek film was going to happen sooner or later, just as Phase II/New Voyages’ time had come with the advent of faster broadband speeds and so on.

With any property like Star Trek (which I consider to be no different from Batman, Spider-Man, Superman or even The Three Investigators) you’ll get a ‘When they get older,’ a ‘Children of/Next Generation’ follow-up, followed inevitably by a contemporary reboot.

In the cycle of things, a Trek reboot was inevitable. The great thing with establishing the ability of the franchise to reboot is that the characters no longer need to get old. As soon as Team Bad Robot and/or the cast move on, someone else can come in, recast and keep things in the five-year mission era. With movies and fan films, Kirk and the crew need never get old again.

107. RAO - July 24, 2012

106. True, but they’ll never be the true cast again. Pine is great… But he’s not Shatner. He IS Kirk. I’m hoping that one day technology in filmmaking progresses to the point where you could have recreations of actors at any age, along with their voice patterns. We’ve seen it to a point, but certainly not enough for a two hour major motion picture or television show. Maybe in 20 years or so.

108. Dom - July 24, 2012

107. RAO

Maybe for our generation, but, by that argument, only Fairbanks is the ‘true’ Zorro or Lugosi the ‘true’ Dracula. I mean, ‘my’ Mike Hammer is Stacy Keach, while others will see him as Ralph Meeker or Darren McGavin.

The new generation emerging now will see Pine as Kirk and Shatner as the ‘old’ Kirk. In ten years’ time, we might have another cast, in which case the originals will be becoming footnotes. It’s sad, but inevitable.

109. wowseruk - July 24, 2012

I don’t recall seeing Kirk blink during the footage.

Can’t wait to see if the transistion from James Cawley works out.

I hope it does. I am a huge fan and supporter of people working together toward their hopes and dreams, and the hopes and dreams of others.

This has been Star Trek’s core message from the outset.

My only criticism is the pacing of the episodes so far. I’d love to see some tighter edits.

I have a chinagraph pencil and therefore I obviously know what I’m talking about. :)

110. denny cranium - July 24, 2012

At the end of “City” Kirk says: “Let’s get the hell out of here.”
So, the dialog in this scene shown here, while rare, isn’t out of character for Kirk.
After we see the completed episode, it will make sense to everybody.

111. Buzz Cagney - July 24, 2012

#106 Dom, you disagreed with me there and when right on to repeat what I said! lol
I said a TOS reimagination would have happened in time but New Voyages and PhaseII hastened it along. Disagree or agree, I honestly don’t mind. But don’t do both! :)))

112. falcon - July 24, 2012

A rough cut is just that – rough. If Mr. Cawley intended this to be a private video, obviously he should have set it to private at the outset – but let’s face it, rough cuts are for nothing more than proof of concept. That’s why they’re “rough.”

I have to do rough cuts for clients all the time, and to a person they just don’t get it. They expect rough cuts to be completed edits, and it’s a painstaking process to have to explain, no, it’s not finished, but I wanted you to see the direction I was headed and get your feedback before I waste a lot of my time and yours going somewhere we didn’t want to go. They (and apparently a lot of other folks on this site) don’t understand the concept or the process of post-production.

IOW: give it a rest, folks. Proof of concept is NOT a finished product.

To James Cawley: Keep up the good work, and don’t let the b@stards grind you down!

113. Keachick - July 24, 2012

Please stop referring to people who make criticism of a footage trolls. Some of us are not trolls and I, for one, have explained what I believe are the two main problems with the footage shown here. I also wrote that I admire the time and effort by all those involved in making these films. I stand by this.

I was not saying that Kirk was a choir boy or boy scout, although there is no reason that he could not have been either and still be the Kirk we know from TOS et al. Yes, he has used the words “hell”, “damn”, and other strong words and expressions, but never something like “burn in hell…”

The closest Kirk came to expressing that kind of anger was in Star Trek VI when he said of the Klingons and their difficulties they faced as a world, “Let them die!” He did not say “Let them die and burn in hell…”. He also said, “I can never forgive them for the death of my boy”. Kirk was in grief over the loss of his son, David and clearly more than a little aggrieved at how his son met his death, but still he did not wish that they burn in hell. Nor did he express any desire to attack and destroy the Klingon world, as some of the others in the Federation had. He just didn’t want to help the Klingons.

Not being able to forgive and not doing anything to stop the possible death of another is not the same as wishing that they burn in hell. Not to me anyway.

Kirk was not about exacting torture, revenge on past acts. He was about stopping people from committing bad acts and minimizing damage.

114. Keachick - July 24, 2012

I doubt I’ll ever hear any of the Bad Robot team or any of the actors or crew refer to people on a public board, who make anything other than glowing comments about their work, as trolls or b@stards. They may think it, but it is unprofessional and rather silly if they are looking to encourage people to give their completed work an objective and appreciative viewing. Just saying…

115. chrisfawkes.com - July 24, 2012

^ fair point keachick

116. northstar - July 24, 2012

I think the acting was pretty good – it may take a while for Gross to be Kirk and for the audience to accept it – like with Cawley or Pine. The scene seems to be out of context, we don´t know what happend right before, so Kirks lines might be justified (Kirks son death was years behind him when he said that about the Klingons – I can easily imagine him saying the lines right after Kruge killed David).

Constructive criticism is surely appreciated by the P2 team, but some of the comments here are just not helpful and in no way constructive. The guys at Bad Robot sure get their fair share of criticism, but that is part of their job – they get paid for that (and for shutting up and not posting on boards like these).

117. Buck Privates - July 24, 2012

#114 Well put. I totally agree, professionals would never bother to post on a fansite & call people names. But we should all remember that this is an amateur production produced by an amateur who put a great deal of time & effort into it.

118. Toonloon - July 24, 2012

@ 117. That’s irrelevant. We are still their audience. I
Don’t care less about an audience who has paid nothing for their ticket than the people who paid top price.

119. Azrael - July 24, 2012

@113. There is a perfectly good reason why Kirk could not have ever been a Boy Scout. Carol Marcus specifically said he was NEVER a Boy Scout, or don’t you remember that? As well the incidents of Kirk expressing Rage through profanity are far more common that you seem to think.

120. Buck Privates - July 24, 2012

@118. Good point I stand corrected. Crawley could use some better judgement sometimes.

121. Keachick - July 24, 2012

#118 Toonloon -

1. People do pay in order to see your videos. I certainly do. Bandwidth does not come free.

2. I am aware of the time and effort that goes into doing any production, amateur or professional. I have belonged to an amateur choir (as in I and none of the other choristers got paid), even though we would perform before LIVE audiences. In fact, we had to pay for the privilege of being able to perform the music we loved for people. The works we performed weren’t what one could consider amateur works. Nobody would consider Handel’s Messiah or Mozart’s Requiem Mass as in any way amateur, nor are they easy to sing. However, we did them as best we could. We were lucky to have the assistance of professional conductors, musicians and soloists (professional as in doing many years of study in their chosen art) on occasion. It was hard work, especially when it came to performing the works mentioned above and there were times when our efforts were met with disappointment with low audience turnout, or lukewarm reception or knowing that I really screwed up some part of what I was singing, for all to hear…
And yet, I do not recall hearing any member of the choir, conductor, soloist, musician complain about an audience’s lukewarm reception or criticism that someone may have levelled against a performance. Most of any criticism was constructive, in the same way as I feel I have given what I feel is constructive criticism of your efforts so far and made suggestions that you may find helpful in your efforts to make a good amateur Star Trek production.

I have read this stuff before from the James Cawley team.Get your act together and show some dignity and humility. You are not always as good as you like to think or hope you are and neither is the South Auckland Choral Society!

122. Jack - July 24, 2012

Keachick — why make it about you? I agree with Cawley — he wasn’t talking about constructive criticism… or criticism period. There are a lot of posts that attack the production and throw all sorts of names and insults. Usually without watching the darned things. I’d be annoyed too.

My earlier point was how is (I paraphrase) ‘I’ve seen 5 minutes out if context and these things are wrong and it’s not for me’ objective, constructive criticism? Fine, if you feel you have to say you don’t like it (and no, it’s not a review when you’ve seen just a clip) then why repeat it, in variations, in a bunch of posts? Cawley’s annoyed at people trashing it (and it happens constantly on here) — again, how is this about you?

Bad Robot isn’t primarily doing this for love (sure they’re like kids in a candy store — but they ain’t doing it for free) – they’re all making lots and lots of money out of it too. Give me a break with the ‘professionalism’ stuff. What, we can give our opinions but they can’t?

We think our opinions should matter on here, regardless of how civil they are — well, if a ‘professional’ reviewer wrote in a paper that he doesn’t like x movie because he thinks Tom Hanks is a shitty actor and ge’s never liked him, he thinks the lead actress isn’t hot and he thinks the sets should have been green instead of blue (or whatever) — and not whether the story works or not etc. — well then he’s just some jerk giving his opinion.

discussion is one thing — but lets say we’re talking about Cooking Chinese food in a forum or discussing a new restaurant. What’s the point of some guy posting ‘I hate Chinese food, it’s disgusting. I’ll never go there!’ fine, it’s his personal opinion — but why share it with the world? I’m curious, why?

Fine, you have an opinion on a short, unfinished, out of context clip and you shared that opinion — repeatedly. Cawley says to wait and see the whole
thing before judging. Isn’t that fair enough?

123. Keachick - July 24, 2012

Yes, I do recall the scene from TWOK where Carol Marcus said that Kirk was never a boy scout. I understood that to be an expression often used to say that this person does not abide by rules always, can be mischievous and tends to be more self-reliant and independent in thinking than most.

Many such people can in fact have been choir/altar boys and/or been boy scouts as children They may not have done such activities for a long time, however someone like Kirk, like anyone else, has to have learned practical skills that later allow him to be more physically and mentally independent, self-reliant and showing qualities of leadership etc.

Kirk may have used profanity, but most of the words spoken were fairly benign due to censorship, especially when TOS was being made and aired in the 1960s. However, even referring to someone as a “f%cking b%stard” or “SOB” has not the same intent as wanting someone to burn in hell. It is not just about what profane words are said, but their intent. Wanting someone to burn in hell is far more sinister than even saying “Let them die.”

Anyway, I always had the understanding that there seemed to be some unwritten rule that there was always only one swear word per movie. In the last movie, the word was bullsh*t said by Kirk when prime Spock told Kirk who he was.

Interesting to see what word is used in the upcoming sequel and who gets to say it. This allows the movie to receive a PG-13 rating, all other things being equal as well.

124. sean - July 24, 2012

Folks, it’s not about Kirk swearing. He did plenty of that (though McCoy did more). It’s about that particular phrase, ‘burn in hell’. I don’t know how to make it more clear, but it’s just an incredibly un-Kirk like thing to say.

125. Azrael - July 24, 2012

@123, 124. Seriously? Whatever, you guys are both getting worked up over a non-issue. Myself I always assumed Carol’s statement to David to be literal, as in James Kirk was never a member of the Boy Scouts organization. There is also nothing whatsoever “sinister” about telling someone to burn in hell, I’ve said it a bunch of times, about Michael Jackson, Jerry Sandusky, this pile of filth in Colorado, and quite a few other people. I am even fairly sure Kirk said something similar, toned down by TV censorship in the 60s, about Kodos.

Now bored with this non-issue argument, see ya around.

126. Azrael - July 24, 2012

Interesting, I got deleted, must have been some of the proper names I used. Whatever, my point was that saying Kirk telling someone to “burn in hell” in NOT SINSTER in any way whatsoever. Also many, many people out there have accepted Carol Marcus’s statement to David to be a literal statement that Kirk was never a member of the boy scouts organization. That said, certain people here are blowing this all out of proportion.
There was also never, never, any kind of “unwritten rule” that there could only be one swear word per movie, there are quite a few more in nearly all of them, you just have to listen.

127. Azrael - July 24, 2012

And now my post I thought had been deleted is back, Anthony the site is being screwy again.

128. MJ - July 24, 2012

People are getting way, way, way overly excited about the “burn in hell” line. Didn’t James Kirk say, “Double Dumbass on You” once folk? Come on, sure, he could say “burn in hell.” W-T-F is the big deal here? This is a non-issue.

129. Jack - July 24, 2012

Hell is a swear word? It’s not even a real place.

130. Azrael - July 24, 2012

On another subject. Mr. Cawley, if that is actually you, this being the internet and all, I have recently watched “World Enough and Time” which many have said is the best work you and your people have done. I thought it was pretty good, but one thing jumped out at me in the scene where young Sulu is piloting the ship to freedom. Specifically, watching “the master at the controls” (to borrow a phrase) is not IMO satisfying when he is visibly not touching the controls. The guy playing young Sulu, while convincing for most of the episode, was simply waggling his hand over the panel in a crucial scene. I feel it hurt the feel of the episode, and I would encourage you and the rest of your cast to avoid things like that in the future. That said, please continue to do what you do, and have fun doing it, I know I would.

131. Jack - July 24, 2012

ps: I was a boy scout and a choirboy — I swear all the f*cking time.

132. Azrael - July 24, 2012

Oh, and in the 2009 movie, in addition to Kirk saying Bullsh-t when he met Spock Prime, I distinctly remember young Spock being called a “Pointy-eared Bastard” more than once.

133. Keachick - July 24, 2012

Hell may or may not be an actual place, but it can certainly be described as a state of existence, mental and/or physical, that a person may find themselves in. It is about wanting someone to suffer terrible physical and/or mental torment. Surely anyone who has been burnt should be able to understand how painful that can be. Hell has a meaning of being in the worst of all places, where only suffering, pain, torment, being consumed in a never ending fire or what could feel like one without any escape are the only experiences to be had.

Perhaps people here have not experienced anything akin to what hell could be like but I live with someone who does an inkling of how bad things can be. People who are bi-polar can be in a hellish place when they are in the down phase, ie SEVERELY depressed, to the point of being suicidal. People living with chronic pain, pain that goes on ALL THE TIME, despite palliative analgesics that just take the edge off, can feel as if they are living in a kind of hell realm. Being a burn victim who survives a serious car crash and spends months recovering in a burn unit is no picnic. Experiencing hell is real for some people.

I have wished this “burn in hell” on some people who have done despicable acts, but, on reflection, I do not feel it is my place to wish that kind of torment on anyone. Some people probably just need to be put out of our misery. This is clearly how Kirk saw what needed to be done in relation to dealing with Nero, given that Nero was not going to stop until he got stopped – permanently. Nero was already in a hell which was much of his own making. Who was Kirk or anyone else to wish more of the same on such an individual? Surely, having the guy dead is enough.

I can’t, for the life of me, understand how people here cannot comprehend the difference between telling someone to “burn in hell” and calling them a “bloody b@stard”. Scary indeed.

134. RAO - July 24, 2012

108. I just wish these damn kids would get off my lawn.

135. Keachick - July 24, 2012

James Cawley – “I could care less what many of the trolls have to say about me”

It was James Cawley and Toonloon who was referring to others as being trolls. I am not saying that some of their objections aren’t valid, but it does seem that also make a big deal about people who express an impression they have of the film footage, that James Cawley chose to make public, that is less than complimentary.

I did not call anyone names. Taking a professional like approach is not about how much money or not you may receive from any production. There are two meanings to the word “professional” – one is someone who paid to do something and the other meaning, of greater importance, is how you go about doing something, whether you get paid or not. That is why I used my own experiences as an illustration.

Another example of the use of the word “professional” – Benedict Cumberbatch referred to the professionalism of Chris Pine. It is obvious that they are in fact both professionals as in they are both getting paid to act in this movie, but what Cumberbatch was referred to was a state of mind, a manner in which the actor conducted himself as he went about doing the work of playing the character of Kirk. Money had nothing to do with the intent of the comment.

136. Alec Peters - July 24, 2012

I think one thing the critics don’t get, is that every Captain Kirk should be a different take. NONE should be trying to do Shatner. Just look at James Bond. No one who has played that role has ever tried to do Connery. They all brought a unique take to the role and each was VERY different.

People who say “That isn’t Kirk” because of a short clip don’t get it. Trying to channel Shatner would be an awful idea. You interpret the character your own way and bring your own vision of the character to the screen.

Alec

137. Azrael - July 24, 2012

I already understand the concept of Hell quite well thank you. That is exactly why I tell people to go there, and I do better than that, I have told people that to get a preview of Hell they should stick a lit roman candle in their butt. This is from someone who has lived through two house fires.

138. MJ - July 24, 2012

@93 “I could care less what many of the trolls have to say about me, Brian’s voice or whatever. The bottom line is am I pleased?, did I get what I paid for?, did I have a good time doing this? if I can answer to myself a resounding “yes” than I have achieved what I set out to do. I always set out to the best I can, and do it for the love of the game, nothing more.”

Way go go James! I could not agree more, and my donations will keep coming your way. That was a tough and personally move recasting Kirk, and I fully support it, and judging by what I think it a great clip, it is going to take your Phase II productions to the next level.

Bravo to James Cawley and the Phase II Team! To those nitpitker malcontents out there who are taking all these potshots at just one incomplete scene here, you can kiss James’ and my ass! :-)

139. Jack - July 24, 2012

136. Agreed.

And it doesn’t have to be exactly like TOS either — I was curious if they’ve tried to replicate certain things like the crazy make-up and the lighting etc., but I don’t think they *have* to do any of that.

138. hear hear.

I think this is just a tempest in a kea-pot at this point. Keachick seems to be the only one outraged. I don’t think he was calling you a troll, Keachick.

140. Jack - July 24, 2012

And, I think I’m the one responsible for all this dragging on because I’m answering your posts.

No, professional doesn’t mean you get paid for things — but imagine you’re in the middle of something that you’ve worked like heck on, aren’t getting paid for and have sunk your own money into — and you run into a bunch of anonymous people making all sorts of blanket comments on footage they weren’t supposed to see — I’d be annoyed too. If you’re making millions off the thing, well, I think you could afford to not be quite so annoyed.

Quibbling about what the words hell, professional and troll mean aren’t going to change anything.

141. Mark Lynch - July 25, 2012

Personally, I think Kirk would very easily say the words “burn in hell” if the motivation was sufficient…

This is a really weird argument people are stirring up around here. But hey, we’re Star Trek fans, nitpicking is part of the job description. Yes that includes me too!

To James C. and Co.
Keep on Trekking, there are a lot more of us that appreciate you than there are trolls…

LLAP

142. Larry Dykes - July 25, 2012

At least some of you got to see it. Due to all the stink the video is now private.

143. THX-1138 - July 25, 2012

No offense meant to Cawley and his production, but why get so bent out of shape about people on the internet being d-bags? Especially when the internet seems to be occupied by all the d-bags that can type? You would think that you would get used to it since it happens all the time. Water off a duck’s back and all that. Certainly I can understand the fragility of the artistic and creative person but at some point you have to be able to not take idiots so seriously.

The video got posted to Facebook. That’s a public place. Like it or not you are a public figure, a creation that you have made yourself. When you go on Facebook and have the maximum amount of fans and friends, run a website that shows an entertainment vehicle that you produce and you spend all of your time creating and promoting yourself and your property, it seems a bit naive to get bent out of shape when someone finds a video such as this and tells other people about it. I’m sure you have heard of email. That might be a better avenue for sharing video that you don’t want the whole world to see.

To come on to Trekmovie and complain comes off a bit churlish and petty.

Now let me say that I am a fan of James Cawley’s efforts and have defended him on this very website. But I have to admit that his latest post is a bit off-putting and I find my interest waning. I am a believer in second chances but there have been some disturbing reports about the Phase II production that don’t cast them in a particularly good light.

144. Dave Galanter - July 25, 2012

Having worked with Phase II and Cawley off and on since 2008, let me say that James is one of the nicest people I’ve met. He has feelings like anyone, and it’s hard for most people to hear the kind of stuff people say here, behind their anonymity. My guess is if they met him, they wouldn’t be calling him “Crawley” or being quite so nasty as some (not all, certainly) are.

Let me tell you, by the way, I’ve told James on the phone or to his face “you know, I don’t agree with this. I think you should have done it differently.” Sometimes he agrees and says “yeah, but we couldn’t.” Sometimes he disagrees and says “we wanted to do it this way.” He’s taken any criticism I’ve had for the show and listened and taken it under advisement. But he’s the guy in charge and I respect his decisions as Exec Producer when I disagree, and I applaud them when I agree.

He’s a guy of charisma who gathers people together with a common love and the goal to have fun. I’ve told him before that if you’re not having fun, stop whatever you’re doing that’s making it not a good time. If some of the comments annoyed him and he took the link down to put them out of his misery, I support that.

As for “disturbing reports” #143 may have heard, let me remind you there is no reporting. There’s people with gossip. Maybe they have an ax to grind, and maybe they don’t. I’ve heard bad things about this or that fan production. I only take into account what I’ve personally experienced.

What I’ve experienced from James Cawley is a friend who has worked hard to put his vision of Star Trek out there for people to enjoy. He’s often let me help him, and I appreciate it because while it hasn’t always been fun (there are a lot of personalities sometimes involved in such a large project)–he’s always done his best to make sure it ended up fun for me and those around him. If James has one flaw, it’s that trying to please everyone is a losing battle and that’s often what he tries to do. As flaws go, that’s pretty mild.

James and the family of fine folks who’re also associated with Phase II is why I go back. That’s not a reason for you to watch–you should do that if you’re a Trek fan and P2 looks like a fun view to you. :-)

145. THX-1138 - July 25, 2012

#144

I’ll take your word for it. I’m a dis-interested third party (meaning I have no real creative or financial interest-not that I find the production un-interesting). Cawley is human and got his feelings hurt by comments on a Trekmovie comment section. The intent of my comment was to point out that perhaps the best tack to take wasn’t to address a grievance in a public forum but rather to address Anthony directly via his posted contact info.

As for the reports (because that is exactly what they are whether they are completely factual or not) about Phase II’s production, or grievances between Trek fan productions, there are always two sides to a story. It’s not my place to further fuel speculation on who is right or wrong, but ‘stuff’ has been said. It’s been put out there. And to hear it is disappointing. Unfortunately it persists. And it is precisely because I DO view fan productions and follow them that I have read about the conflicts. I don’t ignore it. But I would like to know what the truth is. Sadly, finger pointing and hyperbole prevent the fans of these productions from gaining clarity where these issues are concerned.

146. Jack - July 25, 2012

‘To come on to Trekmovie and complain comes off a bit churlish and petty.’

Meh. Why? We’re all fans.

If TrekMovie wants to be a real Trek news site — why not do a real piece on all this talk of “disturbing reports” once and for all, getti g the stories from all sides and if it’s all bunk, say so.

And, finally, to Keachick — I get that you’re horribly insulted. You’ve written a a small novel about it. But, that’s kind of what criticism feels like.

His voice is wrong. Kirk would never say that. — that’s not really constructive feedback. They’ve been doing this for years and years — look at some of their completed work, especially the more recent stuff, and see what you think.

You talk about being in a choir — well, what if some anonymous guy on the internet saw a rehearsal video and was singling you out by name and offering all sorts of arbritrary criticism? I can’t see you not responding.

Bottom line is — fine, you made your point and Cawley disagreed. Why must it go on? Because he called you a troll? Now more words, like ‘unprofessional’ are being hurled around. You’re now accusing him, publically and repeatedly, of being unprofessional, you’re comparing him unfavourably to bad robot and you’re dismissing his team’s work based on his script, his actors, his/their understanding of Star Trek. Google his name and your comments will come up. All because hie called someone he doesn’t know a troll.

He doesn’t know who you are — I don’t think it’s personal.

Sure everyone here argues that we should be able to voice our opinions, but once made, they’re open to criticsm, anger, and disagreement. In short, there are consequences. That’s why it sometimes pays to think twice before posting.

I don’t think you’re a troll. But I wonder if all of us were using our real names here, well, wheher we’d think twice before posting some of this stuff.

What was your intent in posting, other than saying you didn’t like it and wouldn’t watch it? What was the production supposed to do with your feedback ? Recast? Reshoot? Rewrite their script?

And it is a big production at this point — it’s not just three guys with a camera in a field somewhere. Check out their site, watch sme of the clips — they’re rebuilt (beautifully) tonnes of TOS sets. Their costumes and props are perfect. The effects get better with every show (and, personal preference — I like when the effects are more TOS-like and there more modern camera shots etc…. but whatever, that’s just nostalgia talking)

Sometimes, we post for lousy reasons. We post because we want to sound smart. We want to show that we know more about his subject than anyone else. We want to show that it means more to us than it does to anyone else. We like to think we have some sort of influence over other fans and those involved in producing these things.

Yep, I have plenty of work to bet done — so I’m rambling like crazy on here.

147. Fez - July 25, 2012

Honestly guys, you are taking James’ comments out of proportion, he said he did not mind constructive criticism, but the hate bashing of certain people is laughable… he did not call anyone a troll. Simply that there are people, that have posted whether on this article or another that are.

And as for people speaking from Anonymity: it is way easier to speak from the dark without a face rather then saying something to someone’s face.

I personally use the Handle of my nickname on the Phase 2 sets, so many people in P2 and out of it know that it is me.

Point is we are all Star Trek fans… shouldn’t we all in-brace the concept of IDIC. Can’t we discuss without the venom being thrown around

148. Jack - July 25, 2012

145. “The intent of my comment was to point out that perhaps the best tack to take wasn’t to address a grievance in a public forum but rather to address Anthony directly via his posted contact info.”

So we can talk sh*t about the production and he should respond in a private letter to Anthony? Why shouldn’t he interact with the fans who are posting this stuff.

Read some of the comments — they weren’t constructive criticism — they were dismissing the entire project based on an unfinished, out of context scene.

Heck, look at Keachick’s:

16. Keachick
“Captain Kirk, “….burn in hell for what you did…”

What? I do not recall nor can I imagine Kirk saying something like that.

All I can honestly say is – thank goodness, there are professional writers and actors working on the Star Trek film franchise right now.”

And there were plenty more. Look again at Cawley’s response. It seems pretty reasonable to me.

Heck, Bob Orci has got into spats with fans on here. i don’t remember anyone calling him unprofessional because of it.

149. THX-1138 - July 25, 2012

I took Cawley’s comment to be about the fact that the video appeared on Trekmovie and wasn’t intended for public consumption. Yet. So I directed my thoughts that way. That is to say if he did not want his material on Trekmovie, or to be discussed publicly then it should not have appeared in a public forum. And that he should notify Anthony that he wished it to be removed.

Also I hope that James Cawley and the rest of his production crew can see the futility of addressing all the bashers in a public comments forum.

I am done commenting about this. I am nobody. Phase II has millions of fans. What’s one less?

150. Red Dead Ryan - July 25, 2012

Look, James Cawley has the right to get angry about the trollish flaming that goes on here in regards to his production. Mr. Cawley puts in a lot of blood, sweat, tears, resources and money to bring us entertainment that we DON’T have to pay for.

And no, Keachick, internet bills do not count. You’re paying the internet cable company. Not one cent goes to James Cawley.

The people who repeatedly bash “Star Trek Phase II” are militant Talifans who’d be better off back in their caves in the mountains. And we’d be better off too by not having to put up with their hateful comments.

151. A14U - July 25, 2012

James Cawley, I offer my sincere thanks and a tip of the hat for a job well done, for the many superb NV/PII episodes you’ve created. You bring a taste of classic-style Trek to many of us (including this TOS fan) who still love seeing ST the way it was done in the good old days, with modern cultural updates where necessary, in line with the philosophy of The Bird. I just wish I had a tenth of your resources for my own filmmaking efforts. :)

Live long and prosper, James!

152. RAO - July 25, 2012

Let’s see: “everybody who plays Kirk should play him different than Shatner.” Ok, agreed. So long as they are playing a different version, such as Pine in an alternate universe. But Phase II is literally staged as the fourth season of TOS and/or the first of Phase II. You aren’t portraying a different Kirk, you’re portraying THE James Kirk as played by William Shatner. If someone makes a fan film continuing the 1960s Batman show, they aren’t going to portray The Joker like Heath Ledger. I love what you guys do, and think this new actor is a fine actor who would make a great Pike or another captain, but he’s just not playing THE Kirk.

153. Keachick - July 25, 2012

Wow. Is this “Let’s nitpick Keachick week” or something?

#93 James Cawley – “I could care less what many of the trolls have to say about me” Clearly, he was referring to posters on this board, people like me, who was critical of a couple of aspects of the film shown here.

OK, I acknowledge that my first post was a bit harsh, however I attempted to give constructive suggestions, along with explanations of why I thought as I did. Apparently , this has landed me in hot water. I guess I should have just said this – (#6) “Horrid acting. Horrid dialogue. Though the second might be to blame for the first.” Now this is what I would describe as unconstructive criticism.

Red Dead Ryan – I am well aware that James Cawley or any of the people involved in doing these productions don’t get anything back financially from posting on the internet, however internet bills DO count for me and I have to be careful how much I download and watch at any time.

As for comments re the anonymity of posters who bash whatever, in this case, the short outtake of Star Trek Phase II, please do NOT include me in that list! I have, in fact, been the least anonymous of all posters who come to this site and because of this, one of the regular posters, Spock/Uhura Admirer has on more than one occasion, used this information against me. You know my first name because it is in my full pseudonym – Rose (as in Rosemary) and lots more besides. Foolish of me, but there is it. You don’t have my full name, address and phone number but there is lot you people do know about me and yet I know next to nothing about just about all of you here.

Anonymity is not something anyone can accuse me of…

154. denny cranium - July 26, 2012

As a first time crew member on the last shoot, I can tell you it’s incredibly frustrating to hear negative UNINFORMED comments about phase II.
To anyone who throws out comments that “Well, this just plain sucks” without follow up suggestions on how to make it better- please don’t bother.If you say- “I’d like to have seen it done this way-” please offer them. The goal is to make each ep better than the last one.
About James Cawley: I don’t think I’ve met a more gracious person. He was generous with his time with everybody. He listened to creative input from a lot of people and acted on some of it. Dave Galanter is correct. He tried very hard to please everybody on set.
As far as the rest of the cast and crew goes, I was welcomed by everybody into the PII family right away. I saw no troubles on set.
As far as this clip goes- it was a very rough,unedited clip that somehow ended up here.
As far as the dialog goes, we are seeing this scene out of context with the rest of the episode. Once the finished product comes out, this scene will make perfect sense to everybody.
As far as Brian Gross? He did an incredible job as Kirk.
The script and story are top notch. As I’ve said in previous posts, this one will be special.
Until you’ve been there, andseen the magic happen, you just don’t understand how specia making these episodes are for us personally.
People use their vacation time to attend these shoots. We all pay our own expenses and donate resources to the production.
We all worked incredibly hard to make the best product possible for ourselves,and for Star Trek fans.
If you don’t like it,stop watching it.Or if you really want to make it better, donate $5 to the studio. Every dollar helps.

155. denny cranium - July 26, 2012

Keachick, I would find another ISP if you’re able to.
If you live in Nort America, there are lots of ISP’s who offer unlimited bandwidth.

156. Bill Lutz - July 26, 2012

Amazing.
Y’know something? The best thing that ever happened to Star Trek is its fans; the worst thing that has ever happend to Star Trek is its fans. Let me say this: This episode is damn good. I know, I was there. James carries the torch of Phase II and has passed the character of Kirk over to a very good and professional actor. Brian Gross is phenomenal in the role of Captain Kirk. I should know, again I was there. I watched and I enjoyed the man’s performance and just as when James was Kirk, I believed James was Kirk. I believed Brian is Kirk.
This all being said, I am really tired of all these comments that are so derogatory toward James and Phase II. If any of you ‘command chair’ critics would actually get off your collective arses up come and see how a shoot is done at Phase II, you might be more appreciate of the episodes that come out of which many of you seem to review in a sadistic Siskel and Ebert style. I have worked with James Cawley for many years now, I am part of the crew, and I will tell you this: he cares about his actors, his producers, his SFX people, makeup, editors, grips, his crew, his writers, his directors, everyone who comes up to help realize a dream one man has actualized for the benefit of all the fans. When clips are released, they are relased for the benefit of the fans, not to assauge the egos of RFS. Its something for you to see, to be a part of, released by a man who cares about fans and who wants to give them something to enjoy.
I challenge those who constantly complain to actually get off your butts and come down to a shoot. See what the people here to ON THEIR OWN FREE TIME. These people come down here because they love to make Trek we come down here because not only do we make trek, we learn from the professioanls who feel the same way as we do, the professioanls who take their own time to come down and help us, we learn, we do, we create a well produced, well written and professional episode with one big issue in mind: We do it for the fans. Hell, we do it for ourselves too, because we LOVE Star Trek. One man has allowed us to do this, and the constant flaming and trolling and dime story reviewing without even being at a RFS production or even seeing the episode in its entirety would damn most people. They would quit. Yet James continues to make Trek for all fo us. James Cawley and Phase II has set the standard. A standard that no other independant film company that makes ‘Star Trek’ has achieved. I’m willing to say, if not for James and Phase II, I seriously doubt we would have all these Star Trek companies making episodes. So, if you want to critize, at least be CONSTRUCTIVE. Everyone learns, we make mistakes, we are human. Most of us. A flaming troll serves no purpose but to illuminate and illustrate the absurdity of the comments and is often hurtful and hateful towards Phase II and especailly James. It serves no purpose. Why would you antagonzie a man who gives you FREE Trek? Do it yourself if you don’t like it, make your own trek if you don’t like what we do. I’m betting you can’t.
Going up to make these episodes is both an honor and a struggle. Its hard work, its long hours, but its rewarding. yes, we make mistakes, but we strive to improve. These people who come up are fans, hard working, loyal and incredible. I go up to see them every year, we make something wonderful. They are MY FRIENDS. They are my FAMILY.
I am not an actor, I am not a producer, I am not a director. I am no one. I am simply a fan of this production that creates Star Trek and I am someone who helps to achieve it for the fans. I thank James Cawley and his producers for letting me become part of this family.
So, before you sit down there, eating your potato chips and poping those zits on your parents basement couch, come up to a shoot, work one, be part of something you can enjoy instead of masturbating comments that are just plain vicious and ludicrous.
Seems like many of you continue to bite the hand….huh?
Put your skills where your mouth is.
Thank you
&
Thanks James
Bill
PS
Going Boldly is gonna knock your skirts off.
:)

157. Fez - July 26, 2012

I couldn’t have said it better myself, Bill

And Narf!

Fez

Btw Going Boldly going to knock their skirts off

158. Fez - July 26, 2012

I meant to say definitely going to knock their socks off

159. RAO - July 26, 2012

I’d love to do my own series. Who wouldn’t? I’d have done something circa 2312, set after the Kirk period but before the Lost Period before Picard. But alas, like everyone else, I don’t have the money. And my Elvis isn’t that great.

160. Dom - July 27, 2012

Sorry, but this all seems a bit silly now. This is degenerating into people from Phase II now accusing us of being fat people squeezing zits in armchairs (I go to the gym or swimming pool three or four times a week, thank you!) and ‘fans’ on these pages slagging off the PII team who are working hard on semi-pro films out of seeming spite.

To be brutally honest, the PII team need to take a step back, grow thicker skins and stop being snippy with people who are being mean about them. Appoint a team member as some sort of ‘fan liaison’ a la Bob Orci and otherwise keep a mature distance, because getting in a lather over nasty remarks will just demoralise everyone.

I admit I was mean once about New Voyages in the early days, which I’ve always regretted (I had a bad day at a company that was bouncing my paycheques) and I’m no saint here sometimes (having depression sucks, although recovering and having the occasional lapse is worse!) but, as an editor, I’d jump at the chance to work on PII or Continues. I mean ‘Wow!’ Seriously, you get to work on a replica of your favourite TV show, you might even get to go on set! How f***ing cool is that?! Unfortunately, I live in the UK…

So, as a layman, the ‘fans’ should back off being nasty. These are semi-pro films being privately made that are available to be viewed through the goodwill of the showrunners. And to the showrunners, don’t give the meaner fans the attention they crave by picking fights. And, for God’s sake, if you’re going to show people rough cut material out of context that you don’t want showing up on TrekMovie, put it on Vimeo, password-protected!

Seriously, good luck PII guys and gals, but please bear in mind that perhaps not all the criticism is as mean-spirited as it perhaps comes across.

161. Jack - July 27, 2012

Good post.

162. Jack - July 27, 2012

PS. “having depression sucks, although recovering and having the occasional lapse is worse!”

Very, very true. I’m dealing with it now. And I’ve been a jerk on here in the past too and likely will be again. And, yeah, I don’t know what’s going on in poster’s lives. I hope sore feelings don’t linger once the browser’s been shut off.

163. Uberbot - July 27, 2012

#156 — To both you and James, I just say — thanks for what you guys do!! The episodes are FUN to watch and anyone watching (that’s if their jealousy can stay out of it long enough) should be able to tell you guys are having fun making these and that it’s a labor of love!!

It’s still amazing to me that fans like you and James can even approach the same quality and style as TOS — bringing back the same look and feel.

Your episodes really do feel line a true continuation…a “fourth season” of TOS!!

Great job — and just remember, many times people pick on something they wish they had thought of, wish they could do, or do not have the talent or opportunity to do themselves.

It’s so much easier to throw rocks…

Again — all the best to you guys!!! And try to ignore the idiots…

164. RAO - July 27, 2012

I should make it clear too, since I’ve been negative without qualifier: I’m not bitching about the P2 guys for new Kirk. The Kirk-Prime (I feel dirty for typing that; I’ll say 50 Hail Shatners later to atone) role, especially in a series set as a continuation of TOS, is impossible to cast. Shatner had such a unique look, voice, delivery, ect that few if any can pull it off without it seeming like parody. Brian is a tremendous actor and plays the Starship commander well. I thought James’ portrayal of Kirk was very good as well, especially considering he isn’t (or wasn’t) a full time professional actor. I buy both as Kirk the character as conceived or in books, but I can never buy them as “that” Kirk. And it sortof dampers the entire presentation, which is totally unfair by me. But it is true, and I’m obviously not alone. So what’d I do to fix it? Make obvious to the viewer but not the crew that this is an alternate universe, very similar but small changes that led to the characters being unique to the crew of TOS. Yes, another alternate universe. But that’s how I keep my own personal continuity. Every small unexplainable difference is it’s own self contained universe. It’s the butterfly effect meets string theory. James R. Kirk with the weird uniform and Sulu in life sciences? Alternate universe. The Vulcanians live in one, Vulcans in another. Laughing windshield wiper eyebrow Spock? Alt uni. Christine Chapel became a bridge officer in one. Made it all the way to Number One. Chekov was a member of the crew and met Khan in another. In another universe, Scotty has a mustache and the crew returned to Magna Roma to meet Louie Anderson in yours. See? I have a vision.

165. Dom - July 27, 2012

164. RAO

The fun thing is fitting which universes with which. For example, I can buy TOS, TAS, TWOK to TUC and Spock Prime in ST09 as basically from one universe.

The Cage and TMP feel like overtures for TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT and all the TNG films, fitting into their own universe separate from the above. Although the Spock Prime of ST09 could come from this universe too.

I don’t buy ST09 as merely a divergent timeline of the so-called Prime Universe. I see it as similar to the alt-universe in Fringe, which allows for similar characters and situations, but variations in technology, design and so on. So, Spock Prime and Nero fell into another universe when they went through the red matter black hole.

Hey ho! It’s fun! ;)

But, similarly I think of PII and Continues as alt-universes, in some ways a closer match to TOS than ST09, in others less so. But a multiverse opens thing up to become that much more interesting!

166. RAO - July 27, 2012

I’m talking even more than just the series, I’m talking the episodes themselves. Episodes without certain crewmembers with no explanation, changes in design such as nacelles, Spock’s look and emotions, ect. All of these have a multitude of other explanations, of course, but I find my odd little way thought provoking.

167. Dom - July 28, 2012

166. RAO

Didn’t Peter David write a Q novel where the events of Where No Man Has Gone Before were actually set in a parallel universe, hence Spock’s different look and the captain being James R Kirk?

Similarly, shows like The X-Files could have wild flights of fancy like Post-Modern Prometheus, but still ‘snap back’ to the more serious plot lines of the alien invasion conspiracy.

168. RAO - July 28, 2012

167. Exactly! It explains the two Darin’s on Bewitched, Richie Cunningham’s missing brother, the different incarnations of Batman, ect. And it complies with modern quantum physics. I figure, everyone is obsessed with continuity and wants to be spoon fed. Why not make up your own answers and be creative?

169. Dom - July 29, 2012

168. RAO

Yep! The internet, obsessions with episode guides and so on, have a lot to answer for. People should try to enjoy things for what they are rather than what they think they should be!

170. Srini - August 1, 2012

the video is private..
Another jamie cawley lawsuit .?

171. Lee James Sands - August 5, 2012

What do you mean another one? I did however manage to see this before it went private and I think Brian was pretty good. Can;t wait for the online release of the new vignette.

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