First Impressions Of Star Trek Into Darkness IMAX Preview + JJ Abrams Talks ‘Darkness’ |
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First Impressions Of Star Trek Into Darkness IMAX Preview + JJ Abrams Talks ‘Darkness’ December 9, 2012

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Abrams,Spoilers,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Tonight I had the honor to be invited to a special preview presentation of the opening 9-minute prologue from Star Trek Into Darkness which will be showing at IMAX 3D screenings of the Hobbit next weekend. A detailed play-by-play will be held until next weekend but I can report on comments from JJ Abrams, share my first impressions of seeing IMAX 3D Trek, and go into a bit of minor spoilers (at end of the article).


First Impressions of IMAX Star Trek Into Darkness Preview + JJ Talks ‘Darkness’

The IMAX footage was introduced by Star Trek Into Darkness director JJ Abrams who revealed that this audience was the first to see this special presentation (so apparently it wasn’t shown at the Tokyo press event last week). JJ also briefly addressed the film’s title and some comments in the media about the how this might be a ‘dark’ turn for Trek, saying:

"People say "’Into Darkness’ – lot of darkness, very doom and gloom" and there is a lot of intensity in this film, but it is also fun too, which you will see in this beginning."

Abrams went on to say that he didn’t want those of us invited to the event to spoil the nine minute preview by reporting a play by play, and to let fans experience it for themselves and so I will honor that.

But what I can say is that I was impressed with what I saw in two ways. Firstly this looked like nothing seen before in Trek. Most of the first nine minutes were shot with IMAX cameras and seeing that in IMAX 3D truly is extraordinary. The quality of the visual imagery was on par with The Dark Knight Rises. Also some of the shots shown used 3D to great effect. It wasn’t in your face, but it really brought you in to the strange new world presented in this opening segment. The second way this preview is like nothing scene in Trek before was the scale of the thing. Even more than the 2009 Star Trek, it is just a treat to see the universe that we love so much realized in such a grand (and expensive) way.

And the sounds are equally as impressive as the visuals. Once again the same gang of best in class sound designers (including Academy Award winner Ben Burtt) are on the case. Also the preview features all new music by Michael Giacchino (another Oscar-winner). The music at times was original for Into Darkness, but then there were also flourishes which called back to some of the musical cues and themes from 2009’s Star Trek, including when we see an exciting (and surprising) reveal of the USS Enterprise. 




To get into a bit more detail, the preview was broken into two sequences, starting with a more quiet and Earthbound bit featuring Noel Clarke, Nanzeen Contractor (playing husband and wife in London). Together they are facing a crisis with their daughter. A sort of montage of moments with the family leads into into a menacing appearance by Benedict Cumberbatch who seems to be offering Clarke a sort of lifeline (which we assume has a price). While these are all new characters (as in not seen in the 2009 Star Trek), this short sequence is quite intense and emotional and really sets a tone for the film. 

The rest (and majority) of the preview takes us to a very red-hued alien planet with a serious lava problem ( which we saw glimpses of in the trailer released last week). This sequence features the heroes of the USS Enterprise on a mission where they face one challenge after another all leading up to a big moment. We have Kirk and McCoy dealing with angry aliens and Spock getting very warm in a volcano with the help of Sulu and Uhura. And Scotty seems to mostly be worried about what this planet is doing to his ship. Chekov (at his station in his traditional gold shirt) is also there, offering whiz kid suggestions to his captain.

This second sequence was very exciting and full of cool visuals, new gadgets, new specialty uniforms, and lots for a Trekkie to mull over. It also feels like the opening of a James Bond film, with heart-pounding, fast-paced action. But this was not action for action’s sake. Trek fans will certainly see how this sequence deals with things which are at the heart of what Star Trek is all about. And as promised by Abrams we go from the intensity of the opening family scenes into action combined with some fun light-hearted moments very in line with Trek tradition, with Karl Urban and Simon Pegg getting the best lines.

While I expect Trek fans to come away from this preview excited about the film, I doubt fans will walk away feeling like they know the plot of the film, or the identity of the film’s villain (Cumberbatch). Abrams keeps his secrets close and this opening  of the film is no different.

That’s all that can be said for now. More when the sequence goes live in theaters later on in the week. Also check back to TrekMovie tomorrow for a report on the second trailer and another Star Trek press event.


1. George Kirk - December 9, 2012

I’d give my pointy ears for a spoiler or two.

2. Green-blooded Inhuman - December 9, 2012

If you google search you can find details of the first 9 minutes…and you will be pleasantly surprised.

3. Green-blooded Inhuman - December 9, 2012

#2…Definitely not Khan.

4. Anthony Pascale - December 9, 2012

Guys, I am sticking with the agreement to not do detailed play by play spoilers. I will once Hobbit is in theaters of course.

5. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

Anthony, can we discuss the info contained in the other sites’ reports here, or would that be a violation of your NDA in any way?

6. Dunsel Report - December 9, 2012

Sounds A+

7. vva - December 9, 2012

Guess since Cumberbatch is right there off the bat at the start of the film, it ain’t Khan where they picked him up floating in space.

8. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

So Khan hangs out outside of Hospitals offering augment gene therapy to unsuspecting parents? Interesting role for the absolute leader of 1/4 of the Earth’s population. Mitchell’s out for me too.

Still hope for Colonel Green and Capt. Garth … Especially Garth who can presumably teach metamorphic healing techniques …

9. Commodore Adams - December 9, 2012

“Firstly this looked like nothing seen before in Trek.” “The second way this preview is like nothing seen in Trek before was the scale of the thing. Even more than the 2009 Star Trek, it is just a treat to see the universe that we love so much realized in such a grand (and expensive) way.”

YES AND YES! Music to my ears, can’t wait to see this grand, expansive universe. The 9 minute preview sounds interesting and exciting. These are the kinds of spoilers I like, same with the footage, you are given tidbits but not enough to reveal anything so essential that it truly ruins the plot thereby experience when one sees the movie. I also like to hear that the beginning is intense and emotional. I love when a movie really evokes emotion be it terror from a horror movie or tears and deep belly laughs from a comedy. I’ll never forget how emotional and intense the opening scene was in the 2009 movie, I was not expecting that, it was great, it made me teary eyed.

10. Green-blooded Inhuman - December 9, 2012

#7, he’s interacting with Nazneen and Noah’s characters.

11. astronut - December 9, 2012


Another site has reported play by play so even though AP is acting honorably, it is to no avail, really. Cumberbatch is seen in the opening sequence, volunteering to “heal” a sick child… he can “heal” the child with his abilities/powers… so no, that does not sound like Khan Noonian Singh to me.

Maybe it’s Gary Mitchell and his god-like powers…? Maybe?

12. Fascinoma - December 9, 2012

11 – hee, good luck :) my reply got deleted for posting something to that effect!

13. Aix - December 9, 2012

Effing reported a play by play. I regret reading that. Anyway, it just fills me with joy that the world will know how awesome Trek is.

Also, I have a feeling we are not going to know who Cumberbatch is playing until it premieres and I am okay with that!

14. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

Well, it looks like the floodgates have opened, so it’s not going to be possible to keep Pandora in the box much longer.

OK, so Cumby has healing qualities as well as superhuman strength, etc. Gary? Not so sure any more. Trelane/Q? Again, not so sure. However, I have been racking my brain to try and figure out what TOS character had healing properties and other than that Empath chick, I can’t figure out anyone.

Have we all been led along the garden path with the statements that the villain was a TOS character? Maybe and maybe not. Weller could still well be Khan. Or heck, for all we know, Louie Anderson or Regis Philbin could have snuck onto the set and played Khan. From the 9 minutes no one knows. However, it’s pretty obvious that Cumby is not Khan.

The question I have is “what’s with all the water?” The E is in the water on the red plant planet, the (what I’m calling a) late TNG era ship crashes into SF Bay, and unless there be whales around boborci & clan must have had a hankering for sushi because when I think of starships, the last place I think of them is playing Nautilus.

HOWEVER, please note that I WAS right in stating many days ago when the 9 minute preview was first announced that at the end we still wouldn’t have a freakin’ clue who Cumby was. I was wrong on a lot of other things, but not this one.

If the actual revelation is kept under wraps until May I WILL lose my mind…

15. The Original Spock's Brain - December 9, 2012


16. MJ - December 9, 2012

Great, now I’m gonna have to listen to the Gary Mitchell resurrection mafia here for another five months. Argh!!!

17. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

Latino Review calls the planet Nibiru, and if that’s the case that’s the planet that’s supposed to collide with the Earth according to some (realistic or illusionary) predictions. So is that why the E is underwater there, to redirect the trajectory? Is Cumby trying to get Nibiru to hit the Earth? At least we know that Cumby is in London at one point, as that’s where the sick kid is. Yes, I’m losing my mind, thank you, and it’s not even May yet.

18. Richard - December 9, 2012

Cumberbatch will be listed in the final credits as “villain”.

19. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

15. The Original Spock’s Brain – It’s more likely to be a Horta than Sybok. The Vulcan healed “psychological” traumas in that huge POS waste of celluloid. Since the kid is losing hair, it’s likely malignant cancer and there isn’t much psychological that can be done against that. However, I’m still leaning against Gary now… and I don’t know where this “who is Cumby” thing is going… not a clue at all.

20. BulletInTheFace - December 9, 2012

It’s spelled “Sybok,” not “Sybock.”

And Sybok didn’t have magical healing abilities.

21. Aix - December 9, 2012

Maybe Cumberbatch is really nameless in this film. Hahaha! That would be A+ trolling.

22. Rob - December 9, 2012

All I’m sayin’ is this….

….. I have a mancrush on JJ for his ability to both control content release and keep us all talking. Magnificent Bastard!

23. dlee - December 9, 2012

“A sort of montage of moments with the family leads into into a menacing appearance by Benedict Cumberbatch who seems to be offering Clarke a sort of lifeline (which we assume has a price). ”

To point out the obvious, it sounds rather Faustian, Anthony.

24. Phil - December 9, 2012

Well, I guess this means Noel Clarke’s fears of being cut from the movie entirely were unfounded…..

25. Phil - December 9, 2012

@16. Nah, just for a week….

26. Rob - December 9, 2012

Oh and for the record, I wouldn’t deign to rule out either Khan OR Mitchell, or even the possibility of an entirely new non-canon character (we all could have been lied to, ya know). Truth is the only thing we know for sure is that we can be sure of NOTHING.

27. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@16 MJ,
“Great, now I’m gonna have to listen to the Gary Mitchell resurrection mafia here for another five months. Argh!!!”

And we’re probably gonna have to listen to you rationalize why Khan would be hanging around outside of hospitals offering illegal genetic engineering … ;-)

Seriously I hope not. I don’t see how this could possibly be Gary Mitchell as possessed by the Galactic Barrier Entity either …

28. Allen Williams - December 9, 2012

I still don’t get why anyone ever thought gary mitchell. He’s not a bad guy and never was. The only reason he was a threat was because of the events in “Where no man has gone before”. Since this hasn’t happened, and doesn’t need to happen, hes not your villian.

I’m hoping I’m wrong (I want a brand new villian), but khan seems like a possibility.

29. Phil - December 9, 2012

@16…actually, it’s the Sybok mantra that’s really starting to irritate me. Probably one of the wort conceived characters in Trek, and folks actually want to see more of him? Insane.

30. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

26 Rob – We can be sure that Cumby can heal the kid and he’s not going in to bring her candy. So what kind of Khan is a faith healer taking care of sick kids? Cumby is NOT Khan. That’s the end of that line of speculation. He could be Gary, but that’s also a bit of a stretch as when he gets Godlike, he tends to be a pr!ck and pretty self centered, so he doesn’t strike me as the kind that hangs out at hospitals and takes care of ailing children. I’m just on the verge of giving up on any previous Trek character as the superpowers that come and go, the healing, etc. just don’t fit anything… unless Gary has been retconned to have a heart! So where do we reconcile healing a sick kid with blowing up most of San Francisco, kids included? This is sooooooooooo freakin’ weird…

31. Richard - December 9, 2012

You know, if Karl Urban weren’t already cast as McCoy, I’d pick him as a dead ringer for Gary Mitchell. I think he’s the slosest in look to the original.

32. saavik001 - December 9, 2012

18. LOL

33. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

16 Not anyworse than hearing someone go on and on about Khan for the last 6 months.

Anyways reading Drew Mcweeny’s article over on hitfix,
this little blurb, almost got me to thinking of the classic TOS episode The deadly years.
But obviously its not going to
“They drive to the London Children’s Hospital to visit their little girl, who appears to be aging prematurely, sick ”

34. MJ - December 9, 2012

@30. Whose the say the kid doesn’t have some rare genetic disease, and than Khan needs the guy’s services that he offers a high-tech genetic fix that were also used to make him a super-human a century before. Remember how the new Planet of the Apes had an aerosol to deliver the genetic retrovirus.

Think about it — this actually fits the Khan scenario perfectly.

35. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

Hmm… maybe it’s a SPECIAL kid. So, a special female who can’t die in this timeline as she grows up to be ___________. So who the heck is it? Speculation gone wild follows:

Carol Marcus
Borg Queen

I’m spinning my wheels….

36. - December 9, 2012

Thos events have happened for Mitchell in this timeline as established in the comics.

They thought they had killed him there but maybe not.

So it could be Mitchell though i’m not sure.

But i doubt even more that it is Khan.

37. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

I have SOMETHING! I don’t know if it’s MUCH, but it’s SOMETHING.

Memory Alpha: “James T. Kirk becomes a brilliant yet cynical misfit who is finally convinced to join Starfleet by Captain Christopher Pike in 2255.”

Hitfix: “peeking out their window at the rainy cityscape of London in the year 2253″

The sick kid scene is YEARS before Kirk gets on the 1701. So that DOES give the kid time to grow up a bit. So who’s the kid??? HEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

38. Will - December 9, 2012

I still am having trouble coming to terms with the freaking Enterprise being able to go under water. First it’s built on earth. Then it’s a submarine as well as a space ship…

Why do I feel like in the third one of these movies it’s gonna have Super Pursuit Mode?

39. Red Shirt Diaries - December 9, 2012

Mark James Tucker,

That link is very interesting. Thanks!

Diseases like that are usually genetic issues. So I agree with MJ that this might fit Khan perfectly, given that he may have brought “the juice” with him from his old ship that can make superhumans. It’s logical to think that that cocktail would cure the girl. Who knows, maybe that is even a flashback scene, and Alice Eve’s character is the little girl grown up, now a mole super-human supporting BC’s evil plot…maybe that was the “deal with the devil” that Noel Clarke’s character made with BC’s character to save his daughter?

40. Fascinoma - December 9, 2012

33 – Aging prematurely? That isn’t necessarily “the deadly years”. Google Hutchinson-Gilford progeria syndrome. Strikes kids down by their teen years and they essentially die of old age.

41. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

Another clue from Hitfix: “Little girl, who appears to be aging prematurely” So let’s do a little math:

In 2253 the kid is (say) 7.
Kirk becomes a cadet in 2255, hits the Big E in 2258. This movie is a year after (according to boborci) so 2259
The kid would now be 13, but if she aged prematurely and let’s say aged 7 years ahead, she could be Dehner.
Gary’s “Godlike” powers know that he is going to be his psi-queen so he has to save her when she’s a kid.

I dunno if that makes a lot of sense… but there ya go!:)

42. Red Shirt Diaries - December 9, 2012

@38. Next think you know that put artificial gravity on and and have it exceed the speed of light many times over. ;-)

43. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

40 I did say I know there is not a connection though , I was just saying first thing that sprang to my mind when i read it.

44. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

The Antosians healed Garth and Garth can therefore use what he learned to heal others. But what’s angle? If it is him then he’s not as raving loony as Prime Garth was.

I think we’ve only DS9’s Bashir’s backstory to draw on as to whether augment tech could cure disease.

Have we ever seen god-Mitchel ever heal anyone? If he did wouldn’t it be more so he could torture them more?

I wonder if the girl is Eve’s character being given a Bashirish backstory? Except maybe this cure eventually turns her and others into a WMD?

45. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

44. Disinvited – Nope, Gary didn’t heal anyone, and if it is progeria then IMHO it’s pretty CREEPY that Gary would have designs on Dehner when she was chronologically 13 years old. I don’t think that boborci & co. would go THERE. But I’m more confused than ever. The only thing I think we can say with certainty is that the London events occurred while Kirk was still motoring around Iowa, so it is a backstory of SOMETHING.

46. Dr. Cheis - December 9, 2012

You got to see the preview to the preview?


47. MJ - December 9, 2012

“Have we ever seen god-Mitchel ever heal anyone? If he did wouldn’t it be more so he could torture them more?”

Yea, the more we hear, the more we are ruling Mitchell out here. Khan is now looking stronger given the girl apparently has a genetic disease and BC’s character jumps like a super-human.

48. Red Shirt Diaries - December 9, 2012

Here’s a new wrinkle. BC’s character might be a descendant of Khan’s?

49. Fascinoma - December 9, 2012

45 – that would rule out Gary, too, because of the timing. Getting any “powers” would imply Cumbervillain had the powers prior to Mitchell’s encounter with the barrier in the comic.

On the other hand, maybe there is no supernatural explanation whatsoever and Cumbervillain was a doctor or scientist before going around the bend. Who knows. NOTHING could be as it seems.

50. Harry Ballz - December 9, 2012

Cumberbatch’s character offers to heal the man’s daughter?

Jesus Christ!

No, I’m not being blasphemous, I’m simply stating the character played by Cumberbatch.

He obviously depicts the second coming of Christ, starting with healing the sick!

51. MJ - December 9, 2012

@48. That is certainly a possibility. I am open to the possibility that the villain may be a Khan facsimile — a relation to Khan or one of his crew – and not Khan himself. The villain will be Khan-centric though, as the trailer and the preview details act to further strengthen the case for BC being either can or attached to Khan’s story in a direct way.

52. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

49. Fascinoma – Yeah, the only thing I know for sure is that I’m getting a migraine. However, keep in mind that in the JJverse some characters are nowhere near what they are in the origiverse. Spock is an emotional hothead, for example. So Gary could be different in many ways. Cumby has said that the character was neither all good or all bad. But yeah, the comic being canon does create a problem with what the fork Gary was doing 7 years or so before the movie era so the more I know the less I can figure out. You’re right about NOTHING could be as it seems and there is a completely different plot afoot!

53. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

39 Red Shirt,
Your welcome.
I just still don’t think it fits Khan.
Again Cumberbatch’s age just doesnt add up for this being Khan.
So this scene takes place 2 years before Kirk Joins Starfleet, so saying its Khan, your going to half to assume (ok you know hold the phone if the scene is 2253 it can’t be Gary Mitchell either. as him and kirk were friends in the academy ) Ok so ruling out Mitchell, anyways back to what I was saying, for arguments sake lets say Khan was found and thawed out 5 years or even a year before in 2252 he would be a good number of years older than kirk physically when they do meet.
and TWOK shows that Khan ages just like everyone else, no slower.

But I guess we will find out at some point over the next 6 months.

So MJ while I do admit it can’t be Mitchell now, I still say its NOT Khan.

54. MJ - December 9, 2012

@49. Dude, let the Mitchell thing go. It’s not panning out with the more info we are getting from the trailer and preview scenes.

It’s not Mitchell folks. Case closed!

55. Disinvited - December 9, 2012

#34. MJ

Except, I’d assume Khan’s earlier experience with the supermen infighting would likely cause him to keep the enhanced to a manageable few.

56. MJ - December 9, 2012

@53. Glad to meet you half-way on this, Mark. Please see my post @51 above. I am thinking that it might be a direct relation to Khan, but not Khan himself; or it could be one of Khan’s crew. But I still see the story as being Khan-centric, which fits all the previous clues and Anthony’s confirmation last April

57. MJ - December 9, 2012

@55. A manageable few might including creating a mole agent — Alice Eve might be that little girl all grown up. And remember, an earlier story said Alice Eve was not from canon, so despite everyone here insisting she is a character from canon, being Khan’s mole here would be a new character, consistent with Orci’s original info.

58. Sebi - December 9, 2012


Ha, good one. Look, it’s Jesus and he is pissed! He’s BACK TO HAVE HIS VENGANCE!

59. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

It’s not Khan. Everything I know about Khan says he would never work for somebody else. Khan and his augments were not scientists, they were warriors, and leaders, and rulers. They bred amongst themselves to create new augments. Whatever Cumberbatch is up to here it’s not anything khan would do, at least himself. Khan would be the Weller character sending someone else out to do the work for him, not vice versa.

I seriously doubt it’s Mitchell. He’s a god who sees humans as little more than bugs he is so far above them. He would not concern himself with anything so minor as healing a sick child. He just wouldn’t care. Except perhaps if he came back to Earth and demanded he be worshiped as God, then yes he might get a kick out of walking on water and healing the sick …

So Captain Garth is next up. And since he hasn’t gone insane at this point in his career, I’m gonna say he’s capable of running whatever kind of clandestinely operation is going on here … And of the three we know the least about what he was like during this period making I’m an open book.

Colonel Green has been mentioned and given Weller’s involvement and what seems to be guaranteed genetic engineering, once you get past Green being brough to the future via cryogenics, then he makes for a compelling case, practicing illegal genetic engineering to create a pure, superior race of humans.

That’s it for now …

60. RIchard - December 9, 2012

Who’s to say that in this timeline Gary Mitchell’s powers don’t involve healing?

New timeline, new rules. Hell, they built the Enterprise on Earth in this timeline.

Anyone basing their predictions based on what happened in the prime universe is ignoring the fact that for all their affectations, this is a reboot (slyly dressed up as an alternate timeline).

61. Steve Johnson - December 9, 2012


Khan and Mitchell are both sounding less likely, actually. This does not sound like a medical procedure. It sounds like healing -powers-. So i’d lean Mitchell, but both are unlikely.

62. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

56, Yeah I mean the fact that the first scene takes place 2 years prior to kirk joining the Academy definately rules out any possibilty of it being Mitchell.
And you rmight very well be on to something about it being a off shot of Khan, but in that case I will as a fan and as audience member feel just a slightly a bit cheated, because if thats the case it would be better to just hold out and give us the REAL Khan in a future movie.

As much as i dont want Khan for the second JJ movie, I would rather have Khan than have some previously unknown offspring of his.

63. Steve Johnson - December 9, 2012

There is one thing that might connect to the child at the beginning with regards to Cumberbatch’s character.

“Is there anything you would not do, for your family?”

From the Japanese trailer. There’s definitely a theme of family(The crew of the Enterprise, both extended and integral), rite of passage (Kirk earning the chair). It could fit.

64. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

I do suspect and I would be very excited to find out that Orci and Kurtzman have given us a connection to one of the best villian characters that came out of Enterprise.
By having weller play a grandson or great grandson of Paxon.

65. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

What I think we can rule out: Cumby is definitely not Khan. Might be another Botany Bay augment, but then what’s he doing on Earth while the 1701 is still being welded together? There are only two Trek characters I can think of that have anything to do with London and that’s Moriarty and Redjac. I really don’t think that boborci et al would go in either of those directions as most moviegoers wouldn’t have a clue what a holographic character is all about and I don’t think that they would do a boring “alien takes over human minds” story that’s been soooooooo overdone. So I’m not closing the case a la MJ, but the 9 minutes have raised far more questions than they have answered.

Cumby has a nasty case of hatred for Starfleet. It’s pretty clear that he has something to do with blowing away that female officer/diplomat sitting next to Spock, and the synopsis states he famously “detonates” the fleet. So what has cheesed off Cumby so much as to take on all of Starfleet… and win? And what makes him a one man WMD?

66. Anthony Pascale - December 9, 2012


I want to say, dont believe every single detail you read on other sites. I also prefer you not to post links to other sites.

This thing went by fast and some may have missed or misunderstood some details. I have detailed notes and will have breakdown analysis up as soon as HOBBIT screenings start for public.

67. Richard - December 9, 2012

#62: Where does it say that the first scene takes place 2 years prior to Kirk joining the academy?

68. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@57 MJ,

What earlier story? The most recent comment about Alice Eve from Bob Orci after the script was written, was very clear and definitive: she is from canon.

69. Green-blooded Inhuman - December 9, 2012

The planet with the red vegetation is from the comics…the ones based on Galileo 7.

70. MJ - December 9, 2012

@68. I could have sworn that there was a story way back earlier this year that said was new to canon? I am not completely sure though, so I apologize if I am wrong on this point?

71. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

66. Anthony Pascale – But you do realize that between now and the Hobbit premiere date I will be spinning my gears at redline and I may end up more insane than I already am! I am now convinced that JJ would have made a phenomenal Head Of The KGB in another life. He masterfully spins information with disinformation until nobody but he knows what the heck is going on!

67. Richard – Read #37

72. Mark James Tucker - December 9, 2012

67 on the hitfix story, written by Drew Mcwenny.
I have personally been aquainted him for a 8 or 9 years now, (one of the first people I met when i moved out west) so i am abliged to take his description of what went down in the prolouge at its face value.

73. MJ - December 9, 2012

Here we go — I was right:

“Sources say Eve’s character is new to the “Star Trek” universe, unlike del Toro, would insiders believe will be playing someone familiar to Trekkies.”

74. Richard - December 9, 2012

Anthony, can you vet what Mark James Tucker is saying in #62 and 71?

75. Cenobyte - December 9, 2012

The timeline split just before Kirk was born, so the SS botany bay could have had any number of alternate things happen to it from that point forward… Including the death of Khan while in stasis, and possibly the rest of the crew except for one, BC’s character… The lone superman, albeit lower in the totem pole… But it gives us a Khan like character, and instead of trying to recreate what was already very well done, tip the hat and do something different with the story. Been banging that one around for a while now, sorry if 500 other folks have already suggested it and its been debunked as ridiculous… Just seems like an interesting scenario to me.

76. Robman007 - December 9, 2012

It still fits the Mitchell time. The stardate in the preview is 2259.5

Works for a returning Mitchell who is planning on getting revenge on Jim Kirk.

77. Robman007 - December 9, 2012

That is, London, 2259.5

78. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

73. MJ – JJ is way too perceptive a filmmaker to put a Sally Kellerman lookalike into a role that has nothing to do with Dehner. It’s like the silly assumptions that the LL&P through the glass wasn’t Spock.

79. The Last Vulcan - December 9, 2012

77. Robman007 – Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought that it had been established that there was not a correlation between the Christian calendar and stardates!

80. Robman007 - December 9, 2012

Not in the JJ Universe. First film started on stardate 2233.04

81. Buzz Cagney - December 9, 2012

So Cumberbatch is going to take over the world- one parent of a sickly child at a time? Sounds bloody thrilling.
Struggling to get excited here.

82. MJ - December 9, 2012

@79 Try telling that to Stardate 12250 and Stardate 666.

83. Robman007 - December 9, 2012

Jim Kirk ran into Spock on Delta Vega on 2258.42

Plenty of time after for Gary Mitchell to come back, since Scotty was still repairing the Enterprise from the fight with Nero at the start of WNMHGB

84. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@73 MJ, that’s two months before production started, I doubt too many had any idea what her role would be. Then there’s this from July, 2012:

85. fascinoma - December 9, 2012

The Botany Bay could’ve even been blown out of the sky by some other group. Section 31. Some group of hostiles. Heck. Klingons.

And I think that makes Khan’s story in Space Seed and STII more dramatic.

86. MJ - December 9, 2012

@78. Whatever, I just go with whatever minor reported info I have. I prefer that to trying to conjecture what JJ may or may not have done in the movie. When Anthony reports its Khan, and Variety reports Eve’s character is not canon, I prefer to work with those facts rather than let wishful preferences and subjective thinking get in my way.

87. Buzz Cagney - December 9, 2012

#54 MJ, I do salute you for slating those for sticking to Mitchell while you yourself keep on saying the word ‘Khan’. LOL
To be honest its looking increasingly unlikely to be either, but from what i’m seeing Mitchell is still the more likely.

88. Richard - December 9, 2012

I am convinced that MJ has some sort of deal worked out where he gets $20 each time he says the word Khan, or ropes one of us into saying it.

89. Robman007 - December 9, 2012

If the sick kid in London scene happens in 2259, and it’s Mitchell, then possibly his Torp tube was found by Weller and he was released. Could be why he wants vengeance. Who knows…

I still think its either Garth or Mitchell. It’s no augment or Khan.

90. MJ - December 9, 2012

@88 LOL

@84. Thanks. Now I remember that reference of yours. I agree with your new reference. She probably is canon then.

91. MJ - December 9, 2012

@87. “but from what i’m seeing Mitchell is still the more likely.”

So just want in the trailer and the reports tonight of the 9-minutes of footage lead you to believe its Gary Mitchell?

I certainly can see the case for people saying its not Khan, but I also can’t really look at this trailer or the new reports of the nine minutes of footage and make any case at all for Gary Mitchell. Nothing that I have seen or heard about in this trailer/new footage supports the case for Mitchell. Prove me wrong — I am listening???

92. Pointed Sideburn - December 9, 2012

Wait. ‘Healing Abilities’……………Well, didn’t Deltans have healing abilities? Lt. Ilia used her healing abilities on Chekov in ‘The Motion Picture’ after he was zapped through the console by VGer. Maybe the Deltan males are not bald. Maybe Cumberbatch’s character is a genetically enhanced Deltan.

93. Curious Cadet - December 9, 2012

@87 Buzz,

You and others keep saying Mitchell … Why? How on Earth would Mitchell be saving a little girl in London a year before he was supposed to start Starfleet Academy? (Mitchell is in the class ahead of Kirk, which helps explain why he wasn’t destroyed witht the rest of the fleet at Vulcan). This is six years before he encountered the Galactic Barrier and was presumed killed.

People keep saying it’s Mitchell but they don’t explain how that’s possible now.

ESP? Was Gary using his ESP to heal people before he decided to enlist in Starfleet? That’s about all I can come up with, and it doesn’t really sell the story for me.

94. MJ - December 9, 2012

“People keep saying it’s Mitchell but they don’t explain how that’s possible now.”

Yea, exactly, I am getting sick and tired of the people who on one hand tell me I am full of crap on Khan, but on the other hand — now that the trailer and the report of the 9-minutes of footage is out — are too freaking lazy to come back now and make the renewed case for Mitchell in light on the trailer/9-minutes.

Come on Mitchell folks — make your case given that trailer and the reports for the 9-minutes of footage. Make your case?????

95. saavik001 - December 9, 2012

It’s Joachim… :)

96. Devero - December 9, 2012

So apparently, Kirk has to choose between Spock’s life and the Prime Directive. And he chooses Spock. I approve.

97. Basement Blogger - December 9, 2012

This post has no spoilers. Here are guys from Collider and Omlete talking about the footage. They don’t tell any plot details of what’s in the nine minutes but they are really excited. And they give an opinion that BC is Khan. They also tell you to go out and watch Sherlock. By the way Benedict Cumberbatch, its’ clear Star Trek is going to really help your career.

98. Anthony Thompson - December 9, 2012

Neither Khan nor Mitchell. An all-new character, which is what most fans wanted to begin with!

99. Richard - December 9, 2012

My gift to all of my fellow posters:

100. Anthony Thompson - December 9, 2012

MJ, time for you to ‘say uncle’, my friend. : D

101. trekmaster - December 9, 2012

Maybe its Charly…but Sybok (hand-scene, glass) or Gary (Alice Eve / Dehner similarity) is more likely. All three had a dictatoric attitude

102. Steve Johnson - December 10, 2012

“See, I got this problem. Star Fleet don’t like me… So I don’t like Star Fleet. …You probably don’t think i’m a very nice guy, do ya?”

“Buddy, I think you’re slime.”

New dialogue from Trek Into Darkness. Benedict Cumberbatch and Peter Weller respectively.

Hey, it could happen.

103. Trekkie666 - December 10, 2012

Two things

1) I love how people say it’s Gary Mitchell that Cumberbatch is playing because he’s offering to cure this couple’s daughter. As if superhuman abilities is the ONLY way to cure someone. I mean medicine is completely out of the question…right? Yes, he could still be playing Gary Mitchell but this isn’t any kind of proof of that.

2) Unless the Alice Eve character is adopted she can’t be the daughter of this couple since Noel Clarke is of African descent and Nazneen Contractor is India.

104. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

…. Gary dies in the comic, but in the trailer it says that he had come back…so he might be a resurrected Gary…

105. Jack - December 10, 2012

Anthony, thanks very much. This site’s pretty terrific.

106. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

@#102 from where did you get the dialogue?

107. Aix - December 10, 2012

@97 LOL! Was that in reference to Cumberbatch’s New Year’s dinner with Data and Picard? I actually am glad he was cast. The internet seems to have a hard-on on him and he really has the ’it’ factor right now which helps build the buzz. Not to mention he really is a talented actor. Del Toro is too hammy for me anyway.

108. Richard - December 10, 2012

Ok, I’ll be THAT guy: The nacelles are still too big :)

109. Pointed Sideburns - December 10, 2012

I think he is a enhanced Deltan. Deltans have healing abilities.

110. Basement Blogger - December 10, 2012

MJ and I have fought on a couple of things. Most of the time we agree. He and I think BC is Khan. And we’ve taken a lot crap for it. Hear that Montreal Paul?

Trekkers, here’s what we know. Alice Eve and Cumberbatch are playing characters that are canon. That’s from the mouth of Bob Orci. See interview with Anthony below. My estimations are that Eve is Carol Marcus. and BC is Khan. The guys from Collider (no spoliers revealed) have given their opinion after seeing the footage that BC is Khan.

Of course, BC could be Gorgan from “And the Children Shall Lead” and Eve could be Kara from “Spock’s Brain.” But let’s hope not. :-)

Eve and Cumberbatch are canon.

111. dlee - December 10, 2012

More important than any silly Hollywood Star Trek film, RIP Sir Patrick Moore, a real hero of space exploration.

112. Steve Johnson - December 10, 2012

@106 trekmaster

t’was a poor attempt at humor. It’s a paraphrasing of dialogue from Robocop. (Arguably Peter Weller’s most stand-out role.)

113. Mark James Tucker - December 10, 2012

with all due respect their reason for thinking its Khan has nothing to do with the 9 min opening they saw.

Their reasoning is he is the most well known villian.

114. Admiral_Bumblebee - December 10, 2012

Cumberbatch says “You think YOUR world is safe”… So he is not from earth and therefore no human?
Or he is from another time or even a parallel universe…

115. Steve Johnson - December 10, 2012

@114 Admiral_Bumblebee

“Your world” seems to be talking more specifically about the society. Not the planet itself. That’s the impression it gives me.

He’s most likely alienated instead of y’know, an alien. Hence why he’d refer to it as “your world.”

116. Mark James Tucker - December 10, 2012

I wonder if the lie, was that the character is from Trek Canon?

117. Mark James Tucker - December 10, 2012

Bob for the next film, perhaps you can consider bringing the Cardasians into the mix.

118. Ricker - December 10, 2012

Healer=wolf in the fold = Jack the Ripper who’s wife was a healer

119. Aix - December 10, 2012

Healing? Like cellular metamorphosis? Who Garth of Izar knows?

120. MJ - December 10, 2012

The Collider site guy and The Omelet site guy both came away from seeing the nine minutes of footage thinking that BC is Khan.

The circumstantial evidence keeps coming in folks.

I am 10 times as confident this week that it is Khan versus before the trailer, when I was starting to waver a bit. The trailer and reports of the nine minutes of footage are leading the viewers of both to suspect Khan.

Khan is the favorite again, folks. Deal with it!

121. MJ - December 10, 2012

And yet another major media source says its Khan:

122. Steve Johnson - December 10, 2012


Yeah, because, again, Khan is the most popular in terms of pop culture. That does not mean it’s Khan. Everyone knows Khan through osmosis and internet meme’s. They’ll say Khan.

What exactly is the evidence within the media and interviews that we have seen that suggests it to be Khan any more or less than Gary Mitchel or Garth or even Landru or Zargon?

None really. Every camp is arguing circumstantially.

123. Richard - December 10, 2012

MJ that same website did an article on the 5 reasons its Gary Mitchell the day before.. They intended to do one for both choices.

You cherry pick your sources, and in them you see only what you want to see for the things that support your argument. In doing so you are commiting the fallacy known as ‘Observational Selection’.

Definition of Observational Selection:

“Noticing only the observations that tend to form the patterns that one wants to see and ignoring those observations that either don’t fit or form undesirable patterns. Often summarized as “Counting the Hits and Ignoring the Misses.””

124. Mel - December 10, 2012

From another site:

“And where’s the Enterprise during all this? Hidden underwater in one of Nibiru’s oceans, of course.”

I really wonder, why they are hiding underwater? I suspect, because it looks cool. :-P

125. sanjay - December 10, 2012

My theory:

Khan’s capsule has somehow not left earth/ been brought back to earth.

He awakens and using his superior intellect plots his revenge by infiltrating starfleet. He assumes the identity of Gary Mitchell (through cosmetic surgery or other sci-fi procedure), sometime after he is presumed missing in space (where no man has gone before).

126. Pointed Sideburns - December 10, 2012

@124 Mel

Ha,..,…….Maybe the ‘Navigational Deflector Dish’ turns into a spinning propeller to make the Enterprise go underwater. :)

127. STEMBOB - December 10, 2012

if you want a better preview of this event goto IGN.COM!!!

128. MJ - December 10, 2012

@123. Ah, dude, that was an honest mistake then. If your cherrypicking theory about we is supposed to be some big finding of yours, then please provide the alternative stories where:

(1) Anthony also provides a groundbreaking news story where multiple sources of his allows him to confirm it’s Gary Mitchell

(2) The Collider and Omelete site managers, who also saw the 9-minute preview today, who both said they thought the footage led them to conclude it’s Khan, provide seperate quotes where they say they thought the footage led them to conclude its Mitchell

(3) A different report from that Houston360 reporter from yesterday when instead of confirming Khan, she confirms its Mitchell

(4) An obscure clue from Orci that implies Mitchell

etc. etc. etc.

Nice try! Yea, I made a mistake on that one area you provided (touche!), but it was a mistake dude, not a trend. So you are the one who is picking one instance where I was wrong and drawing a blanket conclusion from it — that, my friend, is a textbook case of cherry-picking.

You did it to yourself, dude! You are now a card-carrying member of the cherry-picking fraternity.

129. Nick C - December 10, 2012

Regardless of who Cumberbatch is playing, who’s to say the help he’s offering is nothing more than oblivion. Her suffering will be over because she and everyone else will be dead.

130. J - December 10, 2012

@94: you are taking your “I’m right, it’s Khan!!!!!!1111!” way too seriously with your multiple question marks and evidences and conspiracy theories (that supposedly prevented you from posting links here). It’s sad.

I hope it’s neither Mitchell or Khan and that BO and AK are laughing their heads off reading all those raging comments.

131. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

I just decided to watch that movie with a flashlight in my hand… ^^

132. Hat Rick - December 10, 2012

Anthony, thanks for the great review and for not revealing too much.

JJ Abrams has outdone himself again in every conceivable way.

You know, I read a lot about how people would say Gene Roddenberry wouldn’t approve of the new Trek, but somehow I doubt he would disapprove of the efforts that are being exerted in making this newest Trek movie a science-fiction blockbuster. I could be wrong, but I think he would be pleased about that.

Perhaps someone should conduct an interview with his son and ask some of the questions many fans have about this subject: What would Mr. Roddenberry, the senior, have thought about what Mr. Abrams has done? Would he have liked the new actors in the roles he created? Again, I’d be surprised if the answer was anything negative.

But what is beyond question to me is that the secrecy around the movie has served a purpose, because it seems to me that there is sufficient complexity so that the concealment of the villain leavens the plot and whets the appetite.

I’m very happy about what I’ve read about this movie. It’s nice to see the franchise come back in such an appealing and impressive way.

I hope this movie does extremely well everywhere it plays next year.

133. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

Just watch the trailer: Spock and Cumby do this window scene with their hands (just like in Wrath of Khan) and the speaker says the word “family”. Well, vulcan is destroyed, some people might want a kind of revenge/ vengeance before founding a new vulcan. Now remember Sybok, Spocks brother, in Final Frontier. He had the ability to heal people and was a kind of rebel, he wanted to change society and was very spiritual. I SUPPOSE CUMBERBATCH IS SYBOK!!!!!!

134. Jason F - December 10, 2012

Didn’t the borg start by using implants to overcome medical conditions? Borg King?

135. Mel - December 10, 2012

“Regrouping with the rest of the crew on the Enterprise — which is parked discreetly underwater in the middle of an ocean — Kirk wrestles with a familiar-sounding quandary: Save Spock by taking the Enterprise out of hiding, therefore violating the Prime Directive by exposing the inhabitants of Nibiru to technology they’re not ready for, or sacrifice Spock because, as one character indeed utters, “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

Kirk asks what Spock would do if their situations were reversed. “He’d let you die,” Bones replies, and the opening sequence closes with a cliffhanger. ”

I correct myself. The Enterprise is not only hiding underwater, because it looks cool, it is hiding there instead of simply being in space, because otherwise Kirk wouldn’t have this hard decision to make and McCoy couldn’t say this dry one liner.

136. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

… and I guess the crew also gets in conflict with spock because he releases his halfbrother out of the brig.

137. Devon - December 10, 2012

128 – “(3) A different report from that Houston360 reporter from yesterday when instead of confirming Khan, she confirms its Mitchel”

I’m not saying I am in the Khan or Mitchell camp, but Austin360 didn’t confirm this. They imply that the trailer gave fans confirmation of who the villain is.

Now I’m not saying it ISN’T Khan. I have no idea. But Buzz:60 was only connecting dots, not confirming anything.

138. Hero - December 10, 2012


There’s no evidence yet that it’s Benedict’s hand. His hand is longer and thinner. It looks like Chris Pine’s hand.

139. Nurse Gabble - December 10, 2012

The little girl in the hospial is played by Anjini Taneja Azhar.
There is no way Alice Eve is playing that girl as an adult.

140. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

It is Sybok…

141. Tesla's Cat - December 10, 2012

Avoiding spoilers like the plague…but have renewed hope it’s new characters and new story. I just don’t want them to go over the same old stuff.

142. captain_neill - December 10, 2012

The important question I have to ask Anthony, is does it feel like Star Trek?

143. Pointed Sideburns - December 10, 2012

@140 trekmaster

How can he be Sybok? Cumberbatch’s character doesn’t have pointed ears. Also Orci said in a interview (which there is a link to in this thread above) that his character is ‘Canon’.

144. trekmaster - December 10, 2012


Just read my posting #133. Sybok is canon, he appeared in “Star Trek V: The Final Frontier”. And as a half brother he doesn’t need to have pointed ears in this timeline.

145. Maxie - December 10, 2012

OH MY FREAKING GOD! Freaking enough with the feaking Khan freaking Mitchell freaking Khan freaking Mitchell freaking Khan freaking Mitchell freaking back and freaking forth freaking shoot!!!!! Do you all honestly think they went through such a freaking massive reboot, reimagining, reinvention, redo, re freaking everything just to go back to the same old tired villains that every freaking one freaking expects! That was the whole freaking point of it to freaking start over again and do something freaking DIFFERENT! There is no freaking way they are going to do ANYTHING you’ve been expecting for the last 4 freaking years or there just wouldn’t be any freaking point to the whole freaking concept! And as for you freaks who honestly think they are going to sell a freaking movie with a bad guy called GARTH, get a freaking life! Freaking party on Wayne!

146. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#139. Nurse Gabble

So it is your contention that the B.C. character’s illegal back alley cure is so completely safe that there’s no possible way it could alter her looks?

147. frustaci - December 10, 2012

Cumberbatch character appears to have pointy ears. Sybok is not that far fetched but I would love to see a totally new character.

148. Dee - lvs moon' surface - December 10, 2012


Hey Anthony, there’s a lot of pics of JJAbrams, Chris Pine and Benedict Cumberbatch at IMAX 109 Cinema Kiba in Tokyo last week… and was reported the 9 minutes was showed there… so…

I can’t wait for STID…………………………2013!!!!!!

;-) :-)

149. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

It’s child’s play that no one could possibly build a success movie franchise with a villain/bad guy named “Chucky” – let alone reboot him.

150. stevem - December 10, 2012

Flint? He had self healing abilities and was twice as strong as humans…

151. Maxie - December 10, 2012

149. Cheesy name, cheesy movie. How cheesy do you want your Trek?
Personally some fresh Bocconcini is ok with me but I’d prefer to stay away from the old Stilton that’s being hiding in the back of the fridge for a month

152. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#150. stevem

Good, but what’s his motivation for returning to Earth?

153. NCC-73515 - December 10, 2012

Please, anyone… why is there no preview in Germany?!
And will the 2 min teaser really be only domestic? The Hobbit is screened this Wednesday here…
So when can we see anything at all in German theaters?

154. Steve Johnson - December 10, 2012

@145 Maxie

Calm down. As has been stated repeatedly. We were told that the villain, flat out, was going to be a canonical villain. So, yes, I expect the writers to be telling the truth and not tell a bald faced lie.

Misdirection? Sure. I could see that. We could very well all be on the wrong track, but I very much doubt they’d just straight out lie about the creative origins of the bad guy.

155. Dom - December 10, 2012

I rather suspect the Gene Roddenberry of 1967 would love the new Trek films. The Gene Roddenberry of 1987 would suggest the characters travel back in time to 1963 and Spock shoots JFK! ;)

156. Maxie - December 10, 2012

154. Bob Orci has admitted he told a lie. That would be it. And Ok. Sorry about the rant.

157. - December 10, 2012

Clearly the villain is British so not Khan or Mitchell.

The scene opening in London emphasizes that.

158. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#151. Maxie

Potential villain Gary, the snail, Seven/Mitchell would like to respond with a question of his own:

Whoooooooooooooooo lives in a starship under the sea?


Pointy-eared green-blooded he be!


159. dontcare - December 10, 2012

@144. Actually Sybok would have to have pointed ears, he was full Vulcan, unlike Spock who is half human (and still has pointed ears), the only caveat being he could have them cosmetically altered, but why would he.

160. jeanniespock - December 10, 2012

Right, that’s definatly it. I couldn’t resist peeking although I promised myself I wouldn’t.
Now this is REALLY the last time I will look at this site. Want to experience the full effect when I see the movie. Bye everyone!

161. Hugh Hoyland - December 10, 2012

Dang it I released a Sci-fi spec script last month with an opening sequence where the hero saves a planet from a super volcano. I swear I had no knowledge of this scene in STID!

To bad, now they got to go back and re-shoot that entire sequence in the movie. Sorry guys. :]

But I will say I’m even more intrigued with the villain. Doesnt sound like Mitchell, I think thats a safe bet. I got to hand it to the guys, they have managed to keep his identity an enigma despite the fact we’ve seen actual footage now. Honestly I cant make out who it is.

162. Nurse Gabble - December 10, 2012

# 146 Disinvited

Of course everything is possible, I don’t know anymore than anyone else here. I just think it is too much of a stretch. What would be the point in altering her looks like that? Because Kirk prefers blondes?

I am more interrested in why is BC’s character making that offer.
Does he benefit from it? Is the girls father in anyway connected to starfleet?
Does this family have in anyway a connection to Khan? Mother and child look like they could be of Indian descent.

163. stevem - December 10, 2012

#152 – this is totally off the fly and looking at memory alpha – but Flint (as Mr Brack) bought Holberg 917G in 2239, however Nero altered the timeline in 2233..who knows what affect this had. Also Flint was born Akharin, who was a soldier, bully and fool…

Again its pretty limp…

164. Hat Rick - December 10, 2012

@Dom (155), there’s that famous phrase Kirk once used: “Come, come. Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant.” Of course, he was referring to the Excelsior, which as it turned out, didn’t quite work the way it was supposed to (thanks to Mr. Scott). But I sometimes here that in my mind when folks criticize the new Star Trek.

I wrote a bit of an article on why films like Avatar won Best Picture the same night it was announced in 2010. Essentially, Trek can be, and should be, what it always has been, without giving up the qualities that made Avatar such as success.

“Compare Avatar with last year’s Star Trek. Trek already has most of what Avatar had; the execution wasn’t quite the same, but the qualities are there: science fiction, a forward-moving story, special effects, and more.

But what Trek needs more of is The Shock — The Shock of things that you can’t see for yourself, unless you’re on the front lines.

Because, though Avatar had a little something that Trek didn’t have, Trek has a lot more of something that Avatar only has for a single movie: Philosophical grit, and plenty of it.

As many have said, various stories in that most neglected of Trek series, Deep Space Nine, had perhaps the most cinematic qualities of any in Trek. In them, lives of individuals and universes were changed. Hard-hitting stories were told — aside from ‘A Sacrifice of Angels’ and the well-known battle arcs in DS9, there were excellent character studies like ‘For the Uniform.’

ST2012 needs to import the hard-hitting realism of that aspect of DS9, while remaining true to Trek.”


165. Hat Rick - December 10, 2012

^^ “hear that,” not “here that.”

166. Maxie - December 10, 2012

Ha Ha!
If astro-nautical nonsense be something you like
Then sit in a chair and go ‘beep’ like Chris Pike!

167. Marvin - December 10, 2012

Sounds awful.

168. pg - December 10, 2012

Read synopsis of 9-min preview on another site.. apparently James Horner’s horns and cue from Khan is being used as Kirk and crew run through that alien planet, trying to tweak something in their society by fixing a volcano…

Also read Cumberbatch shows up in a London Hospital.. People who say it can’t be Khan then, what if he just get let out sooner and then integrated himself back into human culture? To study and learn weaknesses in present day? Very possible.

169. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#162. Nurse Gabble

Remember, augment genes carry dominant traits. If he replaces defective and/or missing genes with augment ones, the augmented ones are going to make her traits recessive. In other words there may be no purpose other than a side-effect of the “cure.”

170. Jason F - December 10, 2012

I’m going to suggest that he’s playing Arik Soong,
“The ban on genetic engineering was challenged by the geneticist Arik Soong in the 2130s, when he stole some of the Augment embryos left over from the wars, which were being stored at Cold Station 12. Soong believed that genetic engineering was the key to improving Humankind and preventing illness, and that it should be given another chance. ”

171. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

@#170 Jason F
But we are in the 2250s…

172. Ed Waters - December 10, 2012

I have figure out who our new foe is. I will not
reveal here – for true fans, this is to good to be
true, believe me. My only clue is that he is “a
little bit of everything”. No other clues here –
but if you email me at I will
respond – on the condition any info I give out
will remain non-public.

173. Jason F - December 10, 2012

@171 only says he stole them in the 2130’s – so he experimented on himself while in exile and is back for revenge

174. Oliver - December 10, 2012

@172: You talking about the Founders?

175. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#170. Jason F

Soong already changed his focus, but I think you are on to something. Could be a member of the faction following Soong’s abadoned preachings.

176. Jason F - December 10, 2012

There was talk of the person with the black sleeve on the glass being left handed was there not?

“Arik Soong was played by Brent Spiner, best known for playing Data on Star Trek: The Next Generation. Comments by production staff (and the casting of Spiner) indicated that Arik Soong was intended to be the great-grandfather of Noonian Soong, Data’s creator (also played by Spiner). This is supported by Arik Soong’s comment about cybernetics, when he said that developing an artificial lifeform “might take a generation or two.” While writing his notes, it can be noted that Arik Soong is left-handed, just like his great-grandson, and his android creations. “

177. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

Khan, Mitchell, Soong, Sybok, Flint, Garth.

What do all these people have in common?



178. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

#172: There’s no such thing as a “true fan.” That’s elitist garbage.

179. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

@#173 Jason F
If he lived in the 2130 he can’t be back for revenge around 2260 and still look that young!!

180. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

At that time Sybok was a young man

181. Jason F - December 10, 2012

Probably right. Unless he was genetically modifying himself. But then again in the first teaser wasn’t there a reference to a cryo freeze; all the clues point to genetic modification in the initial teaser.

182. Jason F - December 10, 2012

Could be fun if the Klingons got hold of cold station 12 with Soong frozen inside

183. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

@Jason F
What clues?

184. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#182. Nurse Gabble

The male contains both x and y chromosones which is why the father’s genetic contribution determines his children’s sex.

What if the girl was cured using genes from Khan’s sequenced X chromosome? I’m not expecting Khan to emerge from that, but it’s one way to introduce a Khanection.

185. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

#180: It’s obviously NOT Sybok, for a number of reasons:

1) Sybok didn’t have a British accent.
2) Sybok couldn’t magically heal illnesses.
3) Star Trek V is widely lambasted–there’s NO way Paramount would have greenlighted another film about Sybok.
4) The character does not have pointed ears.

Come on, man, seriously. It’s not Sybok. And it’s clearly not any of the characters being guessed by the masses.

186. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

It could easily be Garth. And who is to say he didn’t get hurt and restored earlier in this time line? So he could be a young, insane, and yet powerful Garth.

187. Jason F - December 10, 2012

Images of biological matter and a foetus, scientists and genetic material, Kirk walking through cold storage units BC in one of the cold storage units on ice. Go watch the teaser again in the context of genetics (not space).

188. SoonerDave - December 10, 2012

Suspect Cumberbatch offers to heal the daughter in exchange for some leverage he knows Noel Clarke’s character to hold regarding the future. Kinda like the way the guy from Terminator knew the cyborg chip from the future had to be destroyed…

As for evil healing semi villains from TOS….Talosians? Medical knowledge of the Fabrini from “For the World is Hollow….”? Gem from “The Empath”? Khan and Michell combined into one megavillain? LOL who knows

189. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

The very very very small chance it is Sybok is actually there. While not a big TOS character, since he only appeared in a bad movie, there is room for his character in this universe to wreck havoc due to the destruction of Vulcan. Remember, he had “healing” abilities, too — but what if this is a combined Sybok-Mitchell, that is, one who is still following the quest, but had what happened to Mitchell happen to him? Ok as I said, a very small chance. Greater chance it is Khan (and it isn’t).

190. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012


I was all set to say something about how Sybok’s accent is irrelevant, but actually, it just may be….If the first scene takes place in London, it’s possible that Cumberbach’s character is British.

So what Trek characters are British?

191. Justin Olson - December 10, 2012

@ 172. Ed Waters:

Let me guess… you mean Cumberbatch’s character is a little bit of everyone on the Botany Bay — genetically speaking. There were originally 85 aboard, including Khan.

So he’s like the ultimate Augment… and he retains the title of Khan.

192. trekgeezer - December 10, 2012

Looks likeJJ is taking lessons FromChris Nolan

Maybe the titles should be Enterprise Rises.

193. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

Only JJ could release 9 minutes of a film and leave people more confused and guessing than they were before they saw it. This is movie marketing on a genius scale.

194. Mad Man - December 10, 2012

HAHA! I knew JJ wouldn’t reveal Cumby’s char or plot details yet. The fact that Cumby smiled when asked who he was is proof of JJ effing with the fans. Good on him.

195. Nurse Gabble - December 10, 2012

# 187 Jason F

wasn’t that teaser fake?

196. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

I still think a good chance for this film is to have Mudd in it — “a CEO with a spaceship.” He could be gun-running for the main villain (Garth?) encouraging him (as adviser) to do all kinds of things (all for the sake of money). In the end, his business partner would turn on him, and Mudd would (like in the series) turn coward and seek to work with Kirk to take down the villain. Yet, he could be there with a second villain ready for ST3: Khan. I do think they are wanting to do Khan somehow, but it could be a two-part story with him, only setting it up in this one. Imagine if Mudd had first found the Botany Bay…

197. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

I actually expected we wouldn’t learn who he was in the first nine minutes. Clearly, he wants people to think it is Khan but it isn’t (this time around). So he is playing a game which could cause a backlash. He knows people thinking it is Khan brings more attention than if it is someone the average moviegoer would go “huh?” about, like Mitchell or Garth. Plus, I think he is setting up Khan for ST3

198. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

And this whole scene totally throws everything for a loop, which is great *LOL*

Gary Mitchell probably wouldn’t stand around and offer to heal little girls….but may have the power to do it.

Khan doesn’t look like he’d hang around kids bedrooms when he could be taking over planets…..but maybe the girl has an illness due to her genetic sequencing, because she’s a descendant of Khan. The fact that the mother is an actress who could pass for Indian makes it all the more intriguing.

Garth of Izar is crazy enough to do anything and be anywhere.

Sybok has a track record of offering healing and completeness to people, and does he have a reason to be disgruntled after Vulcan’s destruction? He’s probably alive, having left Vulcan years ago.

NONE of the above sound really strong, yet ALL could be true.

I thought my life would be less tense since baseball season was over.

199. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

#196: Peter Weller plays that CEO with a starship. You’re not seriously suggesting Peter Weller is playing Harry Mudd, are you? That’s even sillier than Sybok.

200. Jason F - December 10, 2012


No pretty sure it was official, look up start trek 2 teaser on youtube. Has Pine in Costume in the cold storage unit.

201. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

This speculation is getting silly as hell. One thing the trailer made abundantly clear: It’s neither Khan nor Mitchell.

But Sybok? Mudd?? Henoch???

There’s so much straw-grasping here, we could make a scarecrow.

202. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

We have been told Mudd might be one of the villains in the film. Why not Mudd? A smuggler, gun-runner figure, with an ability to make some anti-corporation statements in the script, is the kind of thing Hollywood loves. I can see Mudd (and Peter Weller playing Mudd) in the film, all working in the background, using people just to make a quick buck.

203. Josh - December 10, 2012

OK, I know I’m late to the party but my input:

1) without seeking out further spoilers, it seems like Khan is out, Mitchell is out, and this would be even a weird introduction of Garth. I definitely think we have to consider other possibilities at this point.

2) It sounds like Cumberbatch’s character is a very dangerous, yet pitiable character

3) Is it possible that Cumberbatch’s character picks up his “powers” during the movie instead of already having them?

4) Is his comment about “is there would not do for your family” as much about himself as it is about Kirk, et. al.?

5) I think this pretty much confirms that the red planet scene is a “fun start” to the movie, if you will. I’m surprised the lava scenes are at the top, though. And may the “surprising reveal” of the Enterprise it rising out of the water at the START of the movie?

Hmmm…questions questions

204. Jason F - December 10, 2012

BC offers a medical cure to the little girl, the genetics in the teaser and the cold storage. It’s a Eugenics story, so it has to be Kahn or someone else associated with augmented genetics. My money is on Soong.

205. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

BulletInTheFace — so what do you say, he is a Horta? Really?

The fact that Mudd was one of the listed possibilities of who would be in this movie makes it not a silly speculation. Especially if we have not seen his character yet (Peter Weller). Mudd could be done in a serious way (or comic, or both). He could be the silent hand manipulating people so as to sell him the goods he has to make a huge profit.

206. Ralph Pinheiro - December 10, 2012

preview 9 minutes:

“Kirk asks McCoy what Spock would do if it were him inside the volcano in peril in a situation where any effort to help is going to violate the Prime Directive. McCoy growls,” He’d let you die,”

Brilliant, Mr. Orci. It reminds me my old Star Trek.

207. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

Jason — or maybe Mudd bought all of Soong’s research and gave it to his highest bidder, BC’s character…

208. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

Mudd? Oh fer cryin’ out loud. Peter Weller is much more likely to be Admiral Archer’s freakin’ beagle.

This is boborci we’re talking about here, guys. He is one of Hollywood’s top hyphenates and he’s not about to go mine some of the worst stupidities from half a century ago.

If anything, Weller’s “CEO with a starship” is Khan (“leader of his organization”) who has taken over “the Reliant” from the original timeline (and is the ship crashing into SF Bay.)

209. Nurse Gabble - December 10, 2012

# 200
That scene is from ST 2009
That is the corridor he walks with Spock Prime on Delta Vega before they meet Scotty.

210. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

I don’t understand why people can’t accept the possibility of Mudd as a character. He would be so easy to bring into the equation, making him a selfish-git who causes problems for the sake of profit, then getting in over his head and needing Kirk to help him out. Heck, he could be the one who brings Kirk into the situation like he normally was in TOS. I see Mudd as being a secondary villain but one who has room to be in more than one story, to help bridge them.

211. No Khan - December 10, 2012

29. Phil, I couldn’t agree more. The more they stay away from previous ST movies the better.

212. FusionVok - December 10, 2012

Maybe there’s a Khan connection here after all. Nanzeen Contractor is Indian, so we can assume that the child in the prologue is half Indian. There were photos leaked a while back of a little girl with Anton Yelchin and Simon Pegg. The actress playing Noel and Nanzeen’s daughter. And she’s also Indian.

Coincidence? Khanection? Does Cumby steal genetic code to become Khan? Or does this set up Khan to appear in ST3 somehow?

213. Commodore Adams - December 10, 2012

Its not Khan or one of his descendants nor is its Gary Seven, Soong, Sybok, Garth, or Gem lol those are terrible guesses. I doubt its a new character as we have been told its a character from canon. I doubt Bob and others would outright lie to us. Not reveal info… fine, but a lie is a lie and people do it too often these days thinking lying is fine and acceptable, Bob has more integrity than that, if they says its canon its canon. And with Urban’s slip of Gary Mitchell its exactly who it is.

214. Jason F - December 10, 2012

No it’s not, different jacket and holding a torch looking around. Watch the teaser again. he didn’t have a torch in ST2009 and wasn’t in a room full of blue freezer units.

215. Martin - December 10, 2012

@202- I did wonder about Weller being Mudd and perhaps Cumby being Norman. That would explain a lot, but I don’t think that is it.

I am doubling down on Sybok.

But on the Mudd thing… There wasn’t that much funny about Mudd in Mudds Women- He was at best a pimp- and very close to being much worse.

In I, Mudd, he was a joke, but willing to enslave Kirk and Co but was just tricked by Norman. Norman’s goals could imvolve detonating the fleet. He could be a one android WMD.

Alice Eve is Srella? Is she really screaming Harcourt in the trailer?

216. Jason F - December 10, 2012

Ok take it back.

I got suckered by the fake teaser trailer.

217. Commodore Adams - December 10, 2012

Wow your speculations are so outlandish im laughing, Harry Mudd, some of you tools actually think Weller is Mudd wow, your grasping at straws and not very well.

@ 204. Jason F “the genetics in the teaser and the cold storage” what on Earth are you talking about? There is nothing like that in the trailer. In the fake fan made trailer from months back? Lol WOW.

218. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

I think if he is Mudd, and it is an if, he would be with a different ST canonical figure, someone he didn’t meet up with in TOS. I think he would be manipulating things for profit, nothing else. He would be the kind of person who would create a war and sell what he has to both sides, making both think he is only working with them.

219. CJS - December 10, 2012

Mitchell recovered quickly from the injuries he suffered during the encounter with the galaxy’s edge. His new powers conferred a superior ability to heal. Although she was also changed by the field, Dr. Dehner did not acquire her full powers until Mitchell activated them, suggesting that Mitchell can activate the latent powers of certain people. So if Mitchell can activate the powers within Clarke’s daughter she could potentially heal herself of whatever affliction she is suffering.

220. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

Adams, you give no good reason why he couldn’t be Mudd. You just laugh at the idea. Seems to me you really have no argument. The only grasping is from you, not realizing who and what Mudd represents and how Hollywood that is.

221. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#177 BulletInTheFace

In the 1960s, when Trek was new, we used to ask “If everyone’s speaking Federation Intergalactic, what’s with the accents?”

Not canon, but among the fans the explanation was that it was a fad to try to honor an important ancestor by approximating the way they spoke the Earth standard language in their respective times of living. This explained, for us, why most of the accents were off with most resorting to movies to research their accents much as real actor Jonathan Harris did to create his professional made up accent.

Upshot is, in Trek the accents seldom make sense and by now they don’t have to.

The ease of transportation in our own times makes it fairly ridiculous to claim it is impossible for a pale individual to be born in India and take up Sikh teachings.

222. Nurse Gabble - December 10, 2012

# 216

lol, I started thinking you were trolling

223. NCC-73515 - December 10, 2012

Jason F, that was Alien 4 XD

224. Jason F - December 10, 2012


Not trolling lol.
Although I feel a bit silly now I’m still sticking with BC playing Arik Soong.

225. Gary Makin - December 10, 2012

JJ Abrams really knows how to get people talking.

I salute you, sir.

226. gov - December 10, 2012

Question is: Why has BC’s character chosen this one particular family/girl to help/save?

How does this specific child and/or parents play into the plot? I mean, there are plenty of sick children…especially at a children’s hospital.

My guess would be he saves this girl in order to get something in return from her mother or father. Something…maybe information….that only they could offer.

227. EM - December 10, 2012

It is Gary Mitchell.
Karl Urban said so!
Noone denied what Karl Urban said (as far as I know).
But, The Supreme Court doesn’t always give reasons for what they say.

228. Joe G. - December 10, 2012

Even though you might want to say its not Khan because “why would Khan heal a child” perhaps he is offering genetic engineering as a way to heal the kid in the hope of rebuilding his army. We know this universe is now slightly different that the original, it is plausible that Khan was awakened some other way and has returned to Earth to take his revenge on those who banished him…

My money is still on Khan, same character, but a completely new story!!! An idea that I love. Because it would be a new story, you satisfy the urging of current fans in that they are treated to something original; you satisfy those who have a passing knowledge by giving them something iconic they would remember that they would want to go see; and that leads to word of mouth making people who know nothing about it go see it.

This logic worked out amazing with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. Begins was an awesome movie, but did not have the financial outstanding success of its sequel because the villain was someone that those who were not fans of the comics would never had heard about. The you have a movie with the Joker and the success of the movie skyrockets. I hope the same thing works out for this film.

229. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

Xindi primate Degra gets caught up in a transporter accident with an English tribble and the result is Cumby’s character.

Makes as much sense as many of the character theories floating around here.

However… IMHO the fact that the kid is Indian DOES have relevance in a Khanian way. What the relevance is I don’t have any real clue, but the casting has been done that way for a very specific reason if JJ & Co. are leading off with that scene.

So the Indian kid is growing old quickly (TNG: The Child) and will thus have a short lifespan (VOY: Kes). A genetic mutation which creates a superaugment designed for a very specific task and then immolation?

230. Nurse Gabble - December 10, 2012

# 225

At least he helps us keeping our minds fit with his secrecy ;)
Although sometimes I have the feeling of losing it…

231. Paul - December 10, 2012

I wonder if Benedict is not Gary Mitchell, Khan or Sybok but all three at once. What he says in the 9 minute preview aludes to Sybok, where other aspects lead one to the other two.

So a new character that is an amalgam of three others.

232. Josh - December 10, 2012

I suppose the “Khan was rescued earlier and somehow found his way to earth and is secretly building up an augment army” theory is plausible, given we’re in a new universe, but Khan just hiding out for 10 years just doesn’t seem like his style.

Perhaps if he was the only one saved from the Botany Bay instead of several dozen followers, he wouldn’t have dared take over the ship that rescued him, but he still seems like the frontal assault type of guy to me

233. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#219. CJS

Obviously his curative powers were somewhat flawed because they never remedied his overnight aging.

234. guessing - December 10, 2012

One guess of plot and role … Cumberbatch is Robert April from Coventry, England, the first Enterprise captain. His motive is revenge against Pike (and Starfleet, and now Kirk) for taking command of Enterprise away from him. He is described as a militaristic hot head compiled from various sources as compiled on wikipedia.

235. gov - December 10, 2012

Beaks review over at aintitcoolnews:

” I can tell you this for certain: composer Michael Giacchino quotes Khan’s theme. ou know the cue: James Horner’s blast of french horns that signals the arrival of the hijacked USS Reliant. Here, it’s incorporated into a scene that finds Kirk and Bones running for their lives from a pissed-off pack of natives on a planet about to be ravaged by a massive volcano. This occurs after we’ve been introduced to Benedict Cumberbatch, who turns up at a hospital in London to offer a husband and wife the opportunity to save their child (who appears to be terminally ill).”

236. Schwozh - December 10, 2012

Perhaps it has something to do with klingon augments from Ent? klingons cloned one of the augments from Ent (100 years later “again”) to use him as a weapon against powerful foes like Nero and the Federation.

Cumberbatch breakes free killing hes captives. Weller brings Cumberbatch in to use him for his own purposes as a “vision of creating better humans”.

Weller is CEO over a big medical company, he uses unorthodox methods. Cumberbatch is using those unorthodox methods to heal this girl so the people of earth’s opionion change accordingly to Weller’s ideals and visions.

This vengeance Cumberbatch is talking about is actually something Weller has influenced him with or he is pissed because he know that he cant live in federation society because of his augmented abilities.

237. Colin - December 10, 2012

I couldn’t sleep last night and here is what I came up with:


A different kind of Trelane, he is still corporeal and hasn’t reached his full godlike form yet but has incredible power but is even more irresponsible. He plans on making Earth and the Federation his new playtoy sort of like how Q’s son did in that Voyager episode. The enterprise crew tries to reason with him, nerve pinch and stun him but nothing works. He isn’t good or evil, but rather a force of nature really.

The theme is about family and that ties back into his story about growing up and humility sort of like that reported dialogue between Kirk and Pine.

Just a wild thought

238. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

The Enterprise war built in the 2009 movie or its not the first constitution class!?!?

239. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

IMHO, the Indian kid + the TWOK horns in the first 9 mins seal the deal that Khan is in this movie SOMEWHERE. Whether he’s Cumby or not is highly questionable.

Now, we know that even in this second movie Klingons wear the face masks due to lack of ridges. I’m just throwing this out right now as I haven’t heard the speculation yet that Cumby is a Klingon. It fits with SOME of the evidence (albeit not all).

240. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

Hold up…

Crazy guess #539265749

The Klingons find the Botany Bay years before. They get the eugenics secret sauce from Weller-Khan and they engineer Super-Cumby. He grows to adult age very fast a la Indian progeria kid. The Klingons leverage his Khan-inspired revenge against the Earth that exiled them so that he will destroy the fleet so that the Klingons can just march right in and invade in order to take over the Federation.

Yeah, it’s crazy alright… :)

241. Weerd1 - December 10, 2012

Absolutely love the idea of where the Enterprise is hiding. We’ve seen both the NX-01 and the Voyager fly in fluid environments, why should the E be different? Look, Earth-normal gravity, and water sheer and pressure are nothing next to the forces involved with things like black holes. Even the Classic 1701 survived flying headlong into a “black star” at warp 8. Why is the ocean a problem?

242. Jenna - December 10, 2012

@216 Many of us did, at the time, despite the fact that the description on youtube said explicitly it was fan-made.

243. Crewman Darnell - December 10, 2012


I hope I’m wrong, but I’m suspecting a similar premise.
It looks like Khan (or one of his augmented followers) have been revived by someone and are using emotional leverage (via saving a dying child) against Starfleet officers (Noel Clarke & Nanzeen Contractor) to sabotage the fleet, “setting the stage for an epic battle.”

244. FusionVok - December 10, 2012

I’m having a hard time taking Peter Weller with Khan hair seriously.

245. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

So, no explanation as to why Mudd is a stupid idea. He totally fits the description we have of Weller’s character. Moreover, we were told Mudd might be in this film, making the speculation one connected to what we actually do know.

246. Mattytrek - December 10, 2012

I know it’s NOT Sybok – but I would love it to be. So much potential for that character.

The English accent thing would be no problem. His father Sarek has already adopted an English accent in this new universe.

But I am sure it’s Khan.

247. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

245. Garth Faction – I have the utmost respect and reverence for boborci for his accomplishments and his sheer genius. However I will be the first to barrage him with raspberries if Mudd is anywhere near this movie.

248. Weerd1 - December 10, 2012

@234: say, that’s not bad…

249. - December 10, 2012

No chance it is Khan.

1. The villain is British, Khan is not.

2. Cumberback is first seen in this movie 8 years before the last movie started.

3. Khan never had the power to heal. His own understanding of technology is hundreds of years out of date. Even if he caught up no chance he would be more advanced.

The reason that they use an English actor and open the movie in London is to appeal to that market where the last Trek did not do as well as in the U.S or Australia. So they will be making sure this villain has a british background too.

250. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

What, exactly, do people have against Mudd being in the film? Why the hate for Mudd? There has been no explanation for it. Mudd fits quite well with the new universe, and is a character which can be taken quite a few ways. To say it is Mudd is not to say he would be doing what he did in the original (though I could easily see him involved with a medicine-healing scam). He certainly shouldn’t be the lead villain, but he certainly can be a constant irritant and helper to the villain.

251. Nony - December 10, 2012

Question, because I’m not sure: doesn’t it already violate the Prime Directive to do anything to help a pre-warp civilization escape a natural disaster they *know* about (presumably they’d be able to see and worry about a smoking volcano that was about to erupt), even if that civilization doesn’t know they’re being helped? Or is Kirk skirting the edge in that situation? Bueller? Bueller? Bob? XD

Maybe that’s why Pike is ticked off at him – Kirk’s trying to have his cake and eat it too, bend the rules and still come out a world-saving hero like he always does, and did in the last movie, but in the process he almost gets his first officer killed and pretty much violates Starfleet’s central tenet.

252. Matt - December 10, 2012

Chrisfawkes –

Actually the UK is a strong market for Trek. it’s the rest of Europe you would target. And Benicio Del Toro would have had this part save for money and a blinding Cumberbatch audition. Do you suppose they changed the character to British at the last minute?

253. - December 10, 2012

Possibly but i don’t think they would change Khan to a Brit at the last minute.

Instead the would have Cumberbach do a different accent.

254. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

245. Garth Faction – IMHO because the Mudd episodes were gimmickier and stupider than Spock’s Brain. And that’s really saying something. boborci wouldn’t ever sink that low.

As for Sybok: Yes, the JJverse Sarek had an English accent, but that’s still a far cry from making Cumby play him as a bobbed-ear version. Yeah, it was the Federation’s incompetence in stopping Nero that caused the extinction of Vulcan and Sybok could be amply cheesed off about it, but I really don’t see boborci mining the worst of all the Trek movies (ok, maybe tied with the incomparable bozo Baird’s Nemesis) for his character.

255. Crewman Darnell - December 10, 2012

In the shot of Nazneen Contractor reacting to the destruction, it certainly looks like she could be horrified by the price of some sort of deal she’d made to save her child. Maybe she knew access codes to the fleet.

256. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

Last Vulcan

Then you really are not too imaginative. You might think the episodes he was in were “gimmickier and stupider than Spock’s Brain,” but it doesn’t mean much.

1. Many people like Mudd.
2. The movie doesn’t have to rehash what he did in TOS. This is where I think you fail to think things through. If he shows up, it is a different story.
3. If you are creating a CEO (business) character with his own ship, why create someone when you can use someone who already exists in the universe who fits that description? Mudd is a smuggler. He is exactly the kind of person people would turn to if they need weapons.
4. There is also a small, small chance, if he is added, they could use a bit from Mudd’s Women in it. This goes with the reality as illusion mind-game we saw in the teaser-trailer. That’s right, Mudd has already done that one and fits, once again, with the theme we saw.
5. So, just because you didn’t like his stories in the past doesn’t mean as a character there isn’t a place for him now.

257. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

Elly Kaye plays “A Starfleet Officer” according to imdb and she has subcontinental features as well. I dunno if that means anything in the Khanian discourse, but it might.

258. Mad Man - December 10, 2012

Maybe Noel Clarke is playing Khan who was found long ago on Botany Bay? And Cumby is playing an augment created by Klingons based on Khan’s crew? And Clarke’s Khan will be killed early by Cumby….

Just a thought.

259. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

256. Garth Faction – Granted, in the utter lack of any definitive theories Cumby could be ANYONE, canonical or not. HOWEVER I’m still sticking to my guns and just speaking for myself if I hear the words Harcourt Fenton Mudd in JJTrek2, I’m giving up on the franchise forever and burning my expensive 1701D model. :( Lightsabers anyone?

260. Gary Makin - December 10, 2012

The villain is Gary Seven Soren Shinzon Mitchell Khan of Izar.

261. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

What about Section31?

262. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

Chris Fawkes:

1. The villain is British, Khan is not. /// Me- Accents don’t necessarily have to indicate the nationality of the speaker. And that doesn’t mean that Khan couldn’t be using an accent to make the family feel more comfortable. The fact that the kid can pass for Indian is intriguing, especially if Khan has disguised his appearance/been forced to change it.

2. Cumberback is first seen in this movie 8 years before the last movie started.//// Me – Do you mean before Kirk’s birth, or before the main story with Vulcan blowing…er…in…and all that. Because if you mean the latter, remember, Nero’s appearance at Kirk’s birth changed the timeline, and almost certainly disrupted Starfleet/Federation traffic and patrol patterns. They could have found Khan much earlier in the Botany Bay.

3. Khan never had the power to heal. His own understanding of technology is hundreds of years out of date. Even if he caught up no chance he would be more advanced. //IME— If they were using genetic experimentation in Khan’s 90’s, he knows the basics already. And how long would it take for Khan to catch up on the relevant data? Hours? Days? Khan learned the basics of flying a starship pretty fast. But if this is his descendant, he probably knows everything he needs to know.

The reason that they use an English actor and open the movie in London is to appeal to that market where the last Trek did not do as well as in the U.S or Australia. So they will be making sure this villain has a british background too.

Me- Good theory, but remember, they weren’t casting a Brit before Cumby’s audition, so that’s probably not the case.

263. Legend of Link - December 10, 2012

Cumby could still be kahn. He doesn’t need to have healing abilities. It could be that whatever created kahn’s abilities could also cure the girl’s ailments (forgive me if i’m wrong on this. I don’t remember how kahn and his legion were created). Maybe he’s recruiting?

264. cw - December 10, 2012

Some, including geneticist Arik Soong, argued that it was simply convenient for humanity to denounce the attempts at genetic “improvement” of humanity, that it was inherently evil because of the Eugenics Wars. He argued that the source of the problem, in fact, wasn’t the technology, but humanity’s own inability to use it wisely. Imprisoned for, among other crimes, stealing the embryos of a number of Augment children, Soong wrote long treatises on the subject of genetic augmentations and improvements. His works were routinely taken and placed into storage (although his jailers often told him that his work was vaporized). Captain Jonathan Archer expressed his hope to Soong that research into genetic engineering that could cure life-threatening diseases would someday be resumed. (ENT: “Borderland”, “The Augments”)

From memory alpha

What if BC is a Soong?

265. crazydaystrom - December 10, 2012

260. Gary Makin-
Correction sir. He’s Gary Seven SYBOK Soren Shinzon Mitchell Khan of Izar.

266. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012



He’s the Horta created Trelane Gary Seven SYBOK Soren Shinzon Mitchell Telosian Khan of Izar

267. CmdrR - December 10, 2012

241 – They’re setting up the new Trek TV series:
Voyager to the Bottom of the Sea!

268. Crewman Darnell - December 10, 2012

“Is there anything you would not do for your family?”

The Cumberbatch villain is blackmailing Nazneen Contractor (regarding the life of her child) for some sort of access that allows him to “detonate” Starfleet.

I’m even more certain of this now.

269. Gary S. - December 10, 2012

Whoever BC is playing it doesnt sound like he has healing abilities .
He is OFFERING to help the child ,that implies access to medical technology.

270. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

267. CmdrR – To me at least, all this watery stuff is really disconcerting. Why in the name of Kahless would a starship go underwater with a primitive society when they could stay in orbit and beam down officers wherever they wanted? Going through the atmosphere would increase the probability that they would be spotted. At least at this juncture this makes absolutely no sense except maybe for giving Scotty the chance to do his scene with the fish. Other than that right now at least, I can’t see ANY reason for all this splashing about, as well as a starship just conveniently crashing into SF Bay out of all the places on Earth it could fall.

271. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

Think of Myrna Culbreath and Sondra Marsha. The wrote a trek novel decades ago about a transporter technology called Phoenix that allows you to duplicate departed people. Maybe thats Cumberbatch’s offer to the family

272. Robman007 - December 10, 2012

It’s not eight years before in the preview. It’s 2259.5, which would put the London scene after Trek 11 and the Mitchell Comic.

273. Janice - December 10, 2012

Maybe someone here can answer this-

In the 9 min trailer, is there a scene between Kirk and Pike? and if so, is Pike really seen or is it just a voice-over?

274. James - December 10, 2012

“People say “’Into Darkness’ – lot of darkness, very doom and gloom” and there is a lot of intensity in this film, but it is also fun too, which you will see in this beginning.”

Phew! Star Trek is supposed to be optimistic after all.

275. Mel - December 10, 2012

@ 273

From what I read on a few sites there is only the hospital/family scene and the scene on the planet with the volcano and red plants. No sites mentioned other scenes.

276. Captain Ransom - December 10, 2012

don’t insult star trek by comparing it to that low-brow james bond crap. james bond is nascar of the cinema.

277. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

268. Crewman Darnell – December 10, 2012
“Is there anything you would not do for your family?”

The Cumberbatch villain is blackmailing Nazneen Contractor (regarding the life of her child) for some sort of access that allows him to “detonate” Starfleet.

I’m even more certain of this now.


I like that theory! Maybe Contractor’s character is an actual contractor with Starfleet, or maybe she’s related to someone who has access to Starfleet, or to whatever he needs to “detonate” the fleet.

278. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

And on fleet “detonation” can you say…..Prefix codes?

The line sounds pretty ridiculous, but if say, the villian gets Prefix codes (like Kirk did to Khan in TWOK, hmmnnnn….) and starts self destructing the part of the Fleet near Earth, it would make the line true. And maybe as the ships are blowing up, Kirk/Spock/Scotty figure out a way to maybe cut the main power on their ship to avoid detonation, but they’re pulled into orbit, and end up crash landing in SF bay (after putting the power back on and controlling the fall to some extent?)

279. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

#205 wrote:
“The fact that Mudd was one of the listed possibilities of who would be in this movie makes it not a silly speculation.”

Actually, no, that’s not true. That was debunked as a false quote created by Devin Faraci. The writers never actually made that statement.

280. sean - December 10, 2012

First of all, Cumberbatch says he can save the little girl, not that he can heal the little girl. No special powers implied or required. So that neither rules out nor ties him into Gary Mitchell any more than Khan.

Second, after having read numerous reviews of the IMAX preview, it seems the vast majority feel the preview points to Cumberbatch *not* playing Khan.

281. Lostrod - December 10, 2012

I’m not sure if anyone else has commented on this but …

On the red tree planet mission, if the purpose is to keep a starship hidden from the less advanced native population, then why hide it on the bottom of the ocean? Why not just keep it in orbit and beam folks down?

How do they avoid the chance of someone one the planet seeing the gigantis version of the Enterprise entering the atmosphere and diving into the ocean?

I’m sure it looks great visually, but this is the type of stuff that bugs me about the current movies. It is cool looking but doesn’t make any logical sense.

282. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

276. Captain Ransom – December 10, 2012
don’t insult star trek by comparing it to that low-brow james bond crap. james bond is nascar of the cinema.

You obviously didn’t see Casino Royale. Very good stuff, even supplied a suprisingly emotional, possible reason for Bond’s womanizing.

283. Clinton - December 10, 2012

I’m now reaching that point of no return. Do I keep reading spoilers, or wait for the movie. Always a hard call to make

284. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

The reason no one is bothering to debate you about it being Harry Mudd is because the idea is so laughably ridiculous. They might as well have a debate with someone who believes Cumberbatch and Weller are playing Korob and Sylvia. Peter Weller is NOT playing Harry Mudd. Come on, man–that would be the worst casting in the history of casting. No one is taking the idea seriously enough to debate it with you because it’s too crazy.

285. gov - December 10, 2012

@281 Lostrod

There may be a perfectly good reason for the E being under the water, rather than in orbit, when viewed…you know….within the context of the film.

Or maybe there isnt a “good” reason. Maybe they do get busted, blow the mission, and violate the prime directive. This could be used to reprimand Kirk and demonstrate his cocky attitude.

Again…within the film’s context there is probably a good reason. Not just because it looks awesome.

286. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

So basically, you have no reason to deny he is Mudd. Got it.

287. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

281. Lostrod – Yup, read my 270. I also really see no reason for the E to go submarining other than to get a “Wow” visual moment. However, we know SO LITTLE about this plot that there may be a very reasonable justification… or there may not be anything there but the impetus to throw in as much eye candy as possible!

288. Smike - December 10, 2012

@264: It’s amazing how relevant the brilliant 4th season of ENT comes off with regards to this new movie series. While I don’t believe there will be many hits at this superb outing (maybe Paxton or one of his lineage), it is such a pity Manny Coto never got the chance to finish this brilliant chapter in Trek history…the Founding of the Federation, the Romulan Wars, the birth of Section 31… ENT Seasons 5-7 could have been the best Trek ever… I sincerely hope they will revisit this era at some point, be it only a mini-series or telemovie of sorts…

289. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012


There was lots done in the first movie which didn’t have good reasons for what was done, so don’t assume it will be different here.

290. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

286. Garth Faction – Only reason to deny it’s Mudd: It would open up JJ & Co. to derision on a galactic scale. :)

291. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

288. Smike – +1 on your comment for all eternity. Manny Coto may have been the finest showrunner to work on any science fiction series in the history of television.

292. Garth Faction - December 10, 2012

Basically, Last Vulcan, because you don’t like Mudd. Which is a subjective call. Got it.

293. Fascinoma - December 10, 2012

The reason I think Cumbervillain is neither Khan nor Mitchell is because of how convoluted that would make the plot, to justify either decision, and I can’t really see a writer choosing to do that. It makes great conspiracy theory fodder but isn’t a typical writing decision.

294. Gary Makin - December 10, 2012

Re: crazydaystrom – damn, I knew I’d forget one.

295. filmboy - December 10, 2012

I have read many of your comments on here and have sought out the descriptions of the 9 minutes on many different sites, all of them adhering to JJ’s polite request. The footage sounds good and I like the idea of a sequence to establish the crew and their relationships now. What I kind of am tired of though is the back and forth on who Cumberbatch is playing.

I am all for speculation prior to a film’s release. But there is something about the way this is being done that kind of annoys me. JJ loves his secrecy, which I can’t deny him, but I don’t quite know why he is holding out the identity of Cumberbatch’s villain still at this point. Is he affraid of the fans reaction to the choice (read: the predictable nature and been there, done that feel of Khan)? Or does he think that keeping Cumby’s villain a mystery will draw more people to the film?

Whatever his reasons, I think we are getting to the point here where the debate over the villain of the film is becoming so boring. So much so that it is diminishing my interest for the film in general. At least Christopher Nolan (JJ’s personal hero) had the sense to reveal the villains early and allow the plot of his films to remain secret for as long as he could prior to release. JJ could stand to take a page from Nolan here. I mean he already did with his trailer music, teaser poster, and marketing plan. Why avoid copying him here as well?

Anyway, I am sticking with Khan for Cumberbatch. Carol Marcus for Alice Eve. Pregnant Marcus at the end. Kirk choosing which family is more important to him, Enterprise or Marcus and child.

Come on JJ, just tell us who he is. Then we can move on to speculating just what story you have in store for us fans in May.

296. Crewman Darnell - December 10, 2012

278. LogicalLeopard

“but if say, the villian gets Prefix codes (like Kirk did to Khan in TWOK, hmmnnnn….) and starts self destructing the part of the Fleet near Earth, it would make the line true. And maybe as the ships are blowing up, Kirk/Spock/Scotty figure out a way to maybe cut the main power on their ship to avoid detonation, but they’re pulled into orbit, and end up crash landing in SF bay (after putting the power back on and controlling the fall to some extent?)”

Yep! I think there’s a “deal made with the devil” aspect in this plot. A very plausible sounding plot development there. The big question remains, who is “the devil” and what are his motivations? Care to extrapolate further?

297. Smike - December 10, 2012

@276: The new Bond films are definitely superb, well-written masterpieces. They finally figured out how to write for villains that do NOT want to blow up Earth all the time…unlike Shinzon, Nero and lots of Bond villains that came before…
Star Trek could learn a lot from NuBond. I certainly hope Trek will manage to celebrate its own 50th anniversary in such a successful and convincing way…

298. Dude Against Telephoto Papparrazi - December 10, 2012

@ #270, The Last Vulcan: The reason the Big E is underwater is because of The Avenger’s Helicarrier. Plain and simple. It looks cool and “cool” is something that Hollywood can emulate, if they can, to make a few $$$$$. I’ll bet Cumby plays a project of Dr. Noonian Soong: the first superhuman that Soong created from the series Enterprise. I can’t think of his name. At least, that’s my take on it. Why else would this guy have superpowers? HOWEVER, I really DO like the take that this guy could be Gary Seven! Now, that would make sense. He could be getting his “vengeance” for being abducted from the planet, he could be here to do a Keanu Reeves style Day the Earth Stood Still thing and wipe us out. Any number of possibilities. Gonna be fun finding out!

299. Oz - December 10, 2012

What medical characters do we know from canon, other than McCoy and Chapel? Who might be hanging around offering to help a sick child? Who might be enraged at Starfleet for bungling the defense of Vulcan, resulting in a huge reduction in his business? DR. M’BENGA! Yes, you read it here first. And yes, I am kidding.

Team Garth – but leaning back toward Khan again.

300. HubcapDave - December 10, 2012

I’m pretty sure BC is playing a Mugatu………

301. sean - December 10, 2012


“Pregnant Marcus at the end. Kirk choosing which family is more important to him, Enterprise or Marcus and child.”

I can’t see JJ doing this, as it would really tarnish Kirk’s character. It worked in TWOK because we see his remorse over it and so much time has passed. To show the other end of that, and Kirk choosing his crew over his own flesh and blood…eh, I think that would be really unfortunate.

302. Rico - December 10, 2012

A basic question – haven’t the writers or someone stated the villain IS a TOS CANON character? Granted they might change the details of the character, but I thought they have said this. I’m starting to lean more to a ‘Khan-like” character.

303. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

298. Dude Against Telephoto Papparrazi – Yup, I agree with you. The 1701 rising from the water = the Helicarrier: Totally incoherent fantasy created solely to fit in even more unlikely eye candy sequences. My love hate relationship with JJ will likely be emphasized even further with this movie. I love the fact that he’s making Trek an overwhelming box office success and bringing a whole new generation into the fold but I DESPISE that it’s being accomplished by jettisoning the more cerebral and uniquely Trekkian characteristics of eps from The City On The Edge Of Forever to The Inner Light… in favor of blowing stuff up because it looks so cool in 3D. Sigh….

304. Gary S. - December 10, 2012

300. unlikely but original, and funny too!:)

305. gov - December 10, 2012

@295 fanboy

The secrecy is like free marketing. That’s the idea behind it. JJ doesnt relly need to market to “us” we’re already fans…and we’re going to show up.

The debate over BC’s character is getting a little old. But that’s here on fan sites. Just wait until the debate hits mainstream media and entertainment outlets. The buzz among average movie goers and casual fans will be huge. Free marketing buzz just by not revealing a character’s name.

306. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

From Spock invokes a very famous line uttered in the classic Trek film, “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.”

Which one? The needs of the many? I can’t wait until Friday for Anthony’s revelations… I have immediate gratification syndrome! :)

307. Smike - December 10, 2012

I don’t get the notion that Cumby can’t play Khan because he’s British. Last time I checked Khan was supposed to be Indian but on TOS/TWOK he was played by a Hispanic with a rather neutral, narrow American accent. When he quoted from Moby Dick he almost sounded like a Shakespearean actor (know it’s an American novel).

So Khan shouldn’t be able to do a British accent? What then? Indian pidgin English? A well educated, genetically enhanced Superman of Indian Origin, a former British colony, has to have an American accent? Don’t get it…

Though I’m having a hard time imagining a Khan with mysterious healing powers, trying to get his hands on access codes by saving sick Indian children…

Who else? A god-like ESPer like Mitchell would probably have healing abilities…but then, he could also read people’s minds. What does a God need with prefix codes? He may just blow up those darn ships by thinking about it.

“Maybe Contractor’s character is an actual contractor with Starfleet, ”

Best comment EVER. Now they cast actors by their surnames’ links to characters? Okay, Marc Webb got to direct that Spider-Man reboot, so anything seems possible these days…

308. Mad Man - December 10, 2012

List of possible characters that would piss me off if played by Cumby:

1) Khan.
2) New character (since there would be no need for this secrecy)
3) Non-TOS canon character (ie TNG or novels character)

309. sean - December 10, 2012


The underwater idea isn’t new to Trek

310. The Great Bird lives - December 10, 2012

IT IS KHAN, KHAN THE 5th, the great great great grandson of Khan Noonian Singh…. Khan never took the Botany Bay. In this universe he went into hiding with his people, and for over 200 years planning the eventual extermination of the human race. You heard it here first.

311. Randall - December 10, 2012

Cumberbatch is NOT playing Khan. I’d be willing to bet MONEY on this. It would be an incredibly foolish misstep by Abrams, et al, and while I’m far from their biggest fans, I do think they’re smarter than that. Khan simply makes no sense here, period. It MAY be possible that Khan was originally the intended villain, which is why they were looking at Latino actors at first (though even this would have been offensive, given that Khan *is* supposed to be a Sikh). But even if that’s the case, clearly the idea was changed. Cumberbatch makes zero sense as Khan, and the movie as presented does not appear in the slightest to be setting up Khan as the villain.

What IS being set up—and what EVERYONE here has failed to notice–(no one on any other site has noticed it either, as far as I can tell) is the literary allusion being played with both in the title, and in the garbled synopsis we received a few weeks back. It’s not entirely surprising that no one’s getting the allusion, since the number of literary-minded folk amongst the hordes of science fiction fans is always low. (It used to be a tad higher amongst ST fans, but that was in the old days).

At any rate, the title Star Trek INTO DARKNESS is what’s telling here—along with the aforementioned synopsis. The allusion, of course, is to Joseph Conrad’s HEART OF DARKNESS, in which a “company man” (in the novella his name is Kurtz) in the business of forcing the supply for the ivory trade in the darkest part of the Congo has gone above and beyond his trusted function and essentially set himself up as a demigod among the natives. A lot of you may know this plot and its themes a bit more familiarly from Francis Coppolla’s APOCALYPSE NOW, which toys which adapts the plot—somewhat loosely—to a Vietnam War setting. The “darkness” suggested by the title of Conrad’s original story is on the surface Africa—the Dark Continent, etc. but is also itself an allusion to the darkness within man, particularly European man as he attempts to hold sway over the “less civilized,” less advanced native. In short, it’s a description of the dark side of “the White Man’s Burden”–the dark side of colonialism.

THAT’S the original novella. It has, of course, been adapted any number of ways since then—such as with APOCALYPSE NOW.

Now, I’m not saying that Orci, Lindelof, etc. have done an adaptation of THE HEART OF DARKNESS here. A) I highly doubt that they’re on that level as screenwriters—sorry guys, but no. I think they know their own limitations. B] it wouldn’t be necessary anyway. Lifting the plot whole from Conrad and plugging into Star Trek wouldn’t work, as it doesn’t really apply to the “universe” set up in ST. It is (forgive the overuse of the term) a very “dark” work, and strongly resonant with the darkness of mankind in general. You MIGHT make a very sophisticated, deeply cerebral science fiction movie out of such a thing (no, AVATAR was not this either) but not a Star Trek film. No… rather, it’s likely that what the screenwriters have decided to do here is a *Star Trek VERSION* of the general idea of HEART OF DARKNESS, much as FORBIDDEN PLANET was a very loose lifting of Shakespeare’s THE TEMPEST. Cumberbatch is Kurtz, some kind of mysterious demigod (or someone who considers himself such a thing, anyway) but rather than finding death in his “heart of darkness” up the Congo River, he has been somehow betrayed (at least in his mind) and wants vengeance on his OWN people, whom he feels have wronged him. Those people, in this case, being Starfleet—as he is obviously a “company man,” as was Kurtz—and Starfleet is “the company.” Kirk and his crew, therefore, are put in the position of seeking Cumberbatch out in his own environment, and ending his threat. In the case of the original novella, Kurtz was partly betrayed by other company men, as a I recall–but he was also done in, finally, by his own jungle world–he dies of fever on the boat sent to bring him back to civilization. In Coppola’s version, Kurtz is a rogue army officer who sets up his own mini-fiefdom in the Southeast Asian jungle, and another officer is sent in to kill him and bring an end to his separatist dream. BOTH stories deal with the moral ambiguity of the situation, and the complex character at the center of it. Kurtz is in some sense pitiable. He’s also mad.

The suggestions hinting at some VERSION of all this are there for us to see, but few if any have picked up on them. The “darkness” of this film might be the moral ambiguity of how the crew of the Enterprise—at the behest of Starfleet, perhaps—has to deal with Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch himself is obviously playing a morally ambiguous character from the hints laid out to us.

I’m not going to offer my guess as to what character from canon that Cumberbatch is playing though, because the vagueness inherent in this is still too strong. Could he be Mitchell? Sure. Garth of Izar? Sure. Both would be expected to set themselves up as vengeance-driven demigods, given the proper motivation. So might a couple other canon characters. I DISCOUNT Khan because the circumstances so far hinted at in the plot do NOT point toward Khan even remotely. He *could* be made to fit the situation as I’ve outlined, but I don’t see that being the case here, because it would require too many reworkings of the original character AND too much rewritten detail.

I think we’re dealing with a “rogue” Starfleet officer—perhaps a captain—who believes himself invested with some particular wisdom and/or power which he feels sets himself above others—and he feels Starfleet and possibly Kirk and crew specifically have wronged him. Period. The loose theme of the film is HEART OF DARKNESS in a Star Trek universe setting. The only question is what the guy’s name is, and really, that’s about it.

312. EM - December 10, 2012

@ 311. Randall

You wouldn’t happen to have the Cliffs Notes version of your post for download would you?

313. Superman - December 10, 2012

Hey Anthony, did anything in the 9 min preview explain the further throwing out of basic science and Trek continuity, i.e., a starship hiding underwater? That element of the preview (which I’ve read about) has me highly annoyed at this point.

314. Randall - December 10, 2012

@312 EM

Eh. Funny. But tell you what—I’ve slogged through endless readings of people’s weak and lame “arguments” about who Cumberbatch has to be playing. Mine’s the only one I’ve seen or been aware of that calls attention to the literary allusion being played with by Orci, etc. I don’t claim that I have any great insight in this regard. It only took being an English Major and knowing what the hell the title “Into Darkness” and that crap synopsis were both referring to.

315. Jenna - December 10, 2012

I’ve definitely see Heart of Darkness connection discussed at length…pretty sure it was here! Anyone remember comments on which article? The poster, one, perhaps…

316. Jax Maxron - December 10, 2012

So Benedict Cumberbatch plays V’Ger from the motion picture after it combines with a human and gaining God-Like abilities. He has come from the Prime universe to help out the Vulcans, who touched him deeply in the Motion Picture. And Carol Marcus is there to be the love interest of Kirk.

Don’t forget, these guys love playing with the “untold stories”, and Carol Marcus + what happened to V’Ger are perfect stories for them to mess with without messing with Canon.

317. Randall - December 10, 2012

@315 Jenna

Well if that’s the case, then my mistake, in claiming no one else has pointed it out… it’d be odd that I missed it, but it’s not impossible, particularly if the discussion never went anywhere, and got lost in all the countless speculation.

The point still stands though, and I think it’s being missed by nearly everyone. This allusion is a real one, I think, and it should be recognized for what it is.

STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS, in short, = loose Trekk-y adaptation of HEART OF DARKNESS.

Nice idea, actually, if they pulled it off. And if anyone could make the character come alive, it’d be Cumberbatch.

318. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

Yeah, has it confirmed. It is “The Needs Of The Many” line. With the TWOK horns and the Indian kid, etc. Khan is a lock. As to whether it’s Cumby, I still say the chances are very tiny that he plays Khan. My money is on Weller. However, MTV did speculate that it could be the girl growing up to be Khan, which is really a mindblowing concept.

309. sean – Yeah, but considering it’s one out of 700 or so eps, it’s not exactly what most people will think of when they hear the word Starship. Right now, knowing what little I know, I don’t like it. Let’s see if the actual movie will change my mind on NautilusTrek.

311. Randall – I’m seeing Conradian echoes here as well but there is so little info to go on.

319. Jenna - December 10, 2012

@317 Randall

I completely agree with you! It didn’t generate as much discussion as it should have, but I remember thinking at the time that it was a very good theory. And, yes, I have faith that they could pull it off, especially with the Batch’s excellent help.

320. Jefferies Tuber - December 10, 2012

^ Wordy and self-important way of saying: “darkness is also in the title of Josephn Conrad’s famous work.”

Speculation schmeculation. Here’s the grrreat news:

1. We will see the crew ‘explore strange new worlds.’
2. We will see future earth in a meaningful way for the first time.
3. We will see a large scale, high budget Trek for the third time (TMP, ST09).
4. BC is a magnificent OTT Shakespearean in the tradition of Shatner, Stewart, Plummer.
5. If indeed we get a canon villain, the treatment and scale of the conflict will be grand and unexpected.
6. No mention of Scotty’s muppet sidekick–yet.
7. Anthony has been a very good Captain.

Who will be at the AMC Century City this Friday at noon?

321. sean - December 10, 2012


But it did happen. Nearly 15 years ago. So it’s not a new idea to Trek. I would be surprised if Bob used that episode to justify it.

I don’t really see a problem. Starships had inertial dampners, structural integrity fields, shields, etc. They fly near black holes, why can’t they withstand the pressures of an ocean? I think it’s a pretty nifty idea, but obviously YMMV.

322. sean - December 10, 2012


*would not be surprised*

323. Randall - December 10, 2012

@318 The Last Vulcan

NO. NOT Khan. I’ve already said why, but fine—I’ll be more specific.

1) Khan doesn’t really fit the allusion. He could be MADE to fit it, but that presents other problems.

2) You’d have to first INTRODUCE Khan and/or the IDEA of the genetic superman. REMEMBER folks, these movies are NOT made just for the fans. They’re made to attract NON-fans as well—people who are NOT familiar with the Star Trek mythos beyond the most basic level. You MAY assume such people have heard the NAME “Khan,” but you aren’t just going to throw them into the middle of this character, unintroduced. But that creates the problem, time-wise, of building up who Khan is, WHY he is, HOW he got there, etc. etc. ETC. You’d spend half the movie on this, maybe. REMEMBER–in TWOK, we were dealing with basically a fan movie which didn’t feel it needed to introduce Khan–it brought him in as “an old enemy” of Kirk’s, the “product of 20th century eugenics” and that was considered good enough. BECAUSE the movie was more heavily focused on the fan base than Abrams’ films are. It worked in TWOK of Khan because it was a relatively short, action-centered film on a small scale. THIS is a tentpole, summer blockbuster film. It’s VERY unlikely they’d not only throw Khan *directly* into that, but also screw with the character and his origins as well. It gets too complicated. If I’m wrong, and they HAVE attempted this—well, I’ll eat crow. But as I said, I think Orci and crew are smarter than to take on a task like that. Cumberbatch’s character will require some buildup. Particularly in light of this Heart of Darkness allusion. Unless they’re making a three hour movie, I just don’t see it being Khan. Too much to mess with and explain and alter to make it fit.

3) The hints just don’t fit. Cumberbatch is coming from WITHIN Starfleet. THAT fits the allusion to Heart of Darkness. Khan does not. Khan’s not Starfleet–he’s an outsider, a product of another time and another human way of thinking.

4) Lastly, for either Weller or Cumberbatch to be Khan would be itself a choice of questionable taste. Khan is supposed to be a Sikh warrior. Okay, so maybe they wouldn’t go with an actual Indian actor to play him, even though in this day and age you could find one. Let’s say you go with a Latino, in deference to Ricardo Montalban. But they didn’t, finally. They went with Weller and Cumberbatch. Two white guys. No. That’s not the way it works. Finally—I’d find it kind of offensive at all for them to try to re-do Khan. Montalban *owned* that character. ALL that could be said or done with him was done in his performance. I think it’d be a vague, backhanded insult to the actor, particularly now that he’s gone, to shoehorn someone else into the role that was HIS and should be no one else’s. Star Trek has enough baddies and the like to go on with. We don’t need to rehash Khan.

324. Jack - December 10, 2012

313. We don’t know that it’s hiding. It could be crashing, or sinking.

325. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

296. Crewman Darnell – December 10, 2012
278. LogicalLeopard

Yep! I think there’s a “deal made with the devil” aspect in this plot. A very plausible sounding plot development there. The big question remains, who is “the devil” and what are his motivations? Care to extrapolate further?

Nope, that’s about all I got. There’s so many possible outcomes, it’s hard to extrapolate. Maybe Contractor is a ‘contractor’ from the Daystrom Institute, putting a prefix system in place to prevent cocky young captains like Kirk from causing havok. Pike apparently says can get his crew killed with his lack of humility. Anyway, the bad guy hears about this, and offers to help Contractor’s kid. Maybe he uses some kind of innocuous trade, like he’s a businessman and asks to subcontract on a non-critical system, but somehow gets access to the prefix codes?

326. Mantastic - December 10, 2012

Am I alone in thinking that we’re all probably wrong about who it is and that we’re over-thinking this waaaaay too much when it comes to what TOS character it’s referencing?

327. Josh - December 10, 2012

Has anyone considered that there may be homages to Star Trek II, just because this is the 2nd new movie?

328. HubcapDave - December 10, 2012

Wait, I got it! He’s the giant space amoeba from The Immunity Syndrome!

329. Logan 5 - December 10, 2012

I cannot believe no one has thought of this… in this 9 minute clip… it would seem that a medical miracle is needed. And the villain is the solution. So… what technology is out there that could remove all disease? Borg technology! Look at the Into Darkness poster… it looks as though the classic trek logo is made within a type of Borg construct. In this timeline, the Borg could be introduced much earlier. This could be an origin story for the Borg, beginning on earth via Khan or another character. The girl could be the future Borg queen.

330. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

#311 wrote:
“What IS being set up—and what EVERYONE here has failed to notice–(no one on any other site has noticed it either, as far as I can tell)”

Actually, no, a lot of people have been discussing this, here and elsewhere. Your observation is hardly an original one.

331. Phil - December 10, 2012

@313. It’s not just annoying, it’s idiotic. We have to stick the Enterprise in the sea because we can’t monitor whatever it is we are monitoring from orbit? This should not be a suprise, though, Star Trek has been suffering from tech-itis for a few years now. Swap a few chips, cross wire the bulls**t inverter, and the phasers, replicators, transporter, and now the deflectors will let us do whatever we want with the ship. Science and physics be damned, fly her into the sun while you are at it….

I don’t expect Star Wars or Trek to be 100% accurate, but can the writers at least try?

332. Moputo Jones - December 10, 2012

@329 Logan5
Uh, except a lot of people have thought of that already. Go through the comments on this and other sites.

333. Randall - December 10, 2012

@330 BulletinTheFace

I’ve been looking through these threads quite a bit, and I haven’t seen it. Nor have I seen it elsewhere. I’m not saying it hasn’t been discussed previously—I said earlier I could be mistaken in that, easily—but from the evidence I’ve seen, it hasn’t been “a lot” of people discussing this. I think you exaggerate a bit.

Anyway, it’s not really important. I think it’s more important that the allusion isn’t really being picked up on, and the fact that it pretty much negates Khan. (Thankfully).

334. Josh - December 10, 2012

329 – isn’t the Borg considerably older than this though? Impression is that it took “thousands of years” for them to become what they were

335. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

@#329 Logan 5
According to Guinan (TNG) the borg are millions of years old and yet existed when she was young and on 19th century earth.

336. J - December 10, 2012

I think Cumberbatch is playing Gorn. That makes more sense than anything else. Think about it. The evidence is everywhere.

337. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

323. Randall – Your points are well taken and lucidly explained. However, here is the fundamental problem. We go see the first 9 minutes of Man Of Steel. It starts out with 3 shadowy figures escaping from the Phantom zone, the soundtrack plays Kneel-Zod’s Theme, and Faora walks by. However, the General is never mentioned again as the plot goes off to deal with Brainiac or Bizarro Supes. Any filmmaker pulling a stunt like that would be run out of Hollywood on a rail. The Conradian allusions which very likely are applicable HAVE to be fitted to the reality that Khan is a central character in this movie event though I’m seriously leaning towards the fact that Cumby is NOT Khan and it’s Weller or someone else who hasn’t even been publicly connected with the casting and was brought in under stealth security. We have three very clear TWOK references in 9 minutes. They’re not going to then drop it all and go with Sybok, a Horta, the Crystalline Entity, or Harcourt Fenton Freakin’ Mudd. JJ is a pioneer of his very unique and some would say skewed form of moviemaking but he isn’t a lunatic and neither is boborci who would have penned such a world record non sequitur.

324. Jack – Unlikely as it’s shown coming UP from the waves and the hiding aspect has been widely reported in the 9 min spoilers.

334. Josh – Yes, the Borg have been around for millions of years. And yes, there are ample retcons which have V’ger be a Borg creation incorporating the Voyager probe. A Borg powered Cumby would also go a long way towards explaining superstrength, but not his temporary loss of powers that allows Kirk to fist deck him. If the Indian kid is a young Guinan, however, I’m gonna lose my lunch. :)

338. Phil - December 10, 2012

Enterprise as submarine is going to be Trek’s nuke the fridge moment. I’m hoping that this is one of those trailer/teaser images that doesn’t make it into the final film…..

339. Oscar Goldman - December 10, 2012

That poster is straight up Borg! There’s something about the origin of the Borg that never quite made sense. Their origin could be from earth. Or at the very least, could be trying to assimilate the earth sometime in its past, now that one of the Federation’s main protectorates is gone in Vulcan. They tried once before.

340. Josh - December 10, 2012

337 – I see one clear “Khan” reference – the music, which isn’t even played when Cumberbatch is around.

An Indian kid? really? that’s a Khan reference? As if Star Trek can’t have an Indian character that isn’t related to Khan.

Also, while “the needs of the many” originated in Star Trek II, it is, I think, a fairly well known Star Trekian philosophy.

And you present it as an analogy of an obvious presentment of the villain – three shadowy figures escaping from the Phantom zone, and yet what, exactly is analogous to that in this movie based on what we know about it? An analogy would be seeing the botany bay or something. We don’t (or we haven’t yet, anyway)

341. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

Crazy concept #73759387953

Clarke and Contractor are descendants of Khan and after 200 years, their DNA is genetically triggered to create a New Khan but it requires the intervention of Cumby in order to provide the eugenic secret sauce which will turn her into Khan or she will die.

Uh, huh… crazy…

338. Phil – +1. It’s poetic license that the jumping of the shark in JJTrek may just be in the ocean! :)

342. MJ - December 10, 2012

Where have all the Mitchell people gone now? It is so quiet from then now that one can almost hear a pin drop. LOL

343. MJ - December 10, 2012

@340. Agree that this scenario is a bit far fetched. But if we are not going the get the Khan, we are going to get some facsimile of Khan in this movie. You can take that to the bank, my friend.

344. cpelc - December 10, 2012

What if they are hiding the big E underwater because the inhabitants of the planet are very observant of the sky?

I mean you look at many ancient civilizations on Earth and they really kept track of the movements of stars and planets. We have already seen in FC that the Enterprise can be seen from a telescope.

Or maybe this civilization has radar but no sonar?

345. MJ - December 10, 2012

@339. I do have to admit that is would be just like Orci to blame the Borg on the military industrial complex. That would fit with his politics.

346. Randall - December 10, 2012

@337 The Last Vulcan

You clearly glossed over my points as to why it CAN’T and SHOULDN’T be Khan… so:

Explain to me how Khan “comes from within Kirk’s own organization” —as the synopsis and trailers seem to be suggesting very strongly.

Explain to me how anyone in their right mind would, in this climate, cast a white guy in the role of Khan—whether Cumberbatch or Weller.

Explain to me HOW you set up Khan in this movie, without making it ridiculously long–for the benefit of NON fans.

347. Optimistic Doodle - December 10, 2012

@313: Only time will tell…

As 314 ‘Jack’ an others comment, an ‘acceptable’ explanation for why the Enterprise is paying hommage to seaQuest ;-) ought not to be so difficult. E.g. it could be a test/training exercice, even a lost bet (Scotty in temporary command?)…

348. Randall - December 10, 2012

@341 MJ

I, in fact, strongly lean towards Mitchell.

349. Emperor Mike of the Empire - December 10, 2012

I can’t wait till Saturday till I can see the first 9 Minutes.

350. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

It’s Sybok or a cloned resurrected Gary Mitchell

351. Dennis Bailey - December 10, 2012

Only a very few people will care about the submersible Enterprise thing. It’s not important.

352. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

342. MJ – Yeah, there is some Khanianism in this movie somewhere, but i think that it’s impossible to tell with the info that’s public right now. It’s all guesswork at this point. As for the military industrial complex bit, tie in Lee Harvey Oswald as a Borg plant and you’ll have a plot that would make boborci ecstatic. :)

343. cpelc – Wouldn’t it make sense if it was a civilization with Mayan level observation of the skies that they would notice a 762 metre long starship coming through their atmosphere much more than they would notice one that might be hiding behind one of their moons?

345. Randall – Who says Khan comes from within Starfleet? Who says that Cumby has anything at all to do with Khan other than running into him over a glass of Romulan Ale at the local Interstellarbucks? :) BTW, casting a white guy as a Khan Singh makes more sense than casting a Hispanic unless he was running a Mexican Indian fusion restaurant. ;) I don’t have the slightest idea how JJ, boborci, et al. set up Khan or whether it’s Pee Wee Herman playing him, but we can only go from what we see, and the first 9 minutes have TWOK written all over them. If they dropped any more hints, they’d give the whole darn plot away. So Khan is IN THERE SOMEWHERE. That’s definite, established, irrefutable, and as for how the rest of the story falls (knowing CIA-JJ) we likely won’t have any further clues until we see the actual movie. I agree with you that I’m leaning towards Cumby being Gary too, but there really isn’t enough evidence to firm that up at this time.

353. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

#349: Sybok, not Sybock.

And no, it’s obviously not him.

354. Phil - December 10, 2012

@343. Really? Apparently not that observant, if a thousand(s) foot long starship can enter orbit, enter the atmosphere, and wet land in an ocean, then submerge. I’ve not seen the trailer, but I’m assuming this society they are spying on is of some interest, and not because they are cave men who have just discovered fire. I suspect we will grow to ignore this, just like we did when we discovered R2D2 could fly, after sitting through four movies where using that ability would have been helpful.

355. Jim - December 10, 2012

If your selling this movie to the general non star trek audience then Khan, The Borg, and Klingons are the only Canon villians the general public might be aware of. So the Canon characters are only going to be important to the Trek fans, but not really matter on how the story is told to the general audience. Your not going to have to known who this character is or was to hopefully enjoy it.

356. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

Why not? A cosmetically altered Sybok! Just because of the poster I don’t believe the Borg will have an appearance

357. TheWrathOfBong - December 10, 2012

Khan is easy. Noel Clarke’s character has a sensitive position in Starfleet’s security apparatus, and Khan needs him to effectuate his plan, so he bribes him by offering to heal his sick kid with Augment technologies.

Not saying that’s what I think it is, but that there is a simple explanation for the first scene if Cumby is Khan.

358. Randall - December 10, 2012

@350 The Last Vulcan

Where do you see all the “Khanianism” in this movie? Because I DON’T see it. Not in the least. I see a white English guy in the lead villain role, and Peter Weller, a white American guy, supposedly playing his “mentor.” I see no “Khan” in either character, nor in ANY suggestions made in the trailer or the synopsis OR what we’ve heard of the 9 minute preview EXCEPT a single shout-out to TWOK in the “hands on the glass” shot.

And you think casting a white guy as Khan makes MORE sense than a Hispanic? How so? My reasoning was, Khan SHOULD be played by an actual INDIAN actor. Failing that, the next best thing would be a Latino, in deference to Montalban. The LEAST sensible thing would be a white English or American guy in that role. It would be downright offensive.

And it’s amazing—I’ve read the same description of the 9 minute preview, and I see or hear NOTHING of Khan in it. You come away with Khan “written all over it.” Bizarre. Tell you what—when you’re finally proven wrong, come on here and admit it.

There is not a single hint given about Cumberbatch’s character that indicates Khan. The only possible one is that it’s SUGGESTED that he has some kind of superhuman strength. Though as yet, I fail to see where that’s been conclusively determined.

359. Nony - December 10, 2012

First look at Spock, Cumby, and Kirk.

360. Colin - December 10, 2012

Maybe Species 8472? Cumberbatch looks like he fits the role.

361. Randall - December 10, 2012

Oh, excuse me… TWO shout outs to TWOK in the “needs of the many” line. Big deal. Abrams misdirection. EVERYONE knows that about half the Star Trek fandom are salivating—stupidly, I think—at the idea of Khan being revisited at some point by Abrams. So he tosses a couple bones at these people. I see nothing else whatsoever to suggest Khan.

362. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

…yeah, it’s still “Gary” Mitchell… with some left-over Khan elements…

…sounds like a lot of cobbled-together pieces, stupid references, stupid humor…

can’t wait to see the stupid explanations for how the get the Enterprise to operate underwater… probly hook-up a huge beer-bong snorkel to the brewery?

is it REALLY TRUE that they are still using the brewery?? Come on!! WTF?!

also disgusted that they are calling the planet “Nibiru” since they already used “Delta Vega”… =(

more of same inane sound and fury crap from JJ&Co… =(

363. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

357. Nony – Amazing image! Shows that very likely the LL&P through the glass is Spock and Cumby. The article says that the name John Harrison was attached to the image. The only ref I can find to that name is a scifi author.

356. Randall – 3 TWOK shoutouts in the 9 minutes plus the LL&P through the glass in the trailer. That’s FOUR that you don’t see? Huh? Now you’re just being obtuse for the sake of obtuseness. And when the Brits left India in 47 they didn’t all disappear. There are still VERY PALE BRITS living throughout India and Pakistan as natural born citizens.

364. Buzz Cagney - December 10, 2012

#342 Yea, if the Bank in question is Lehman Brothers ;))

365. TheWrathOfBong - December 10, 2012

Another theory: Disciples of Khan have survived on Earth in secret for centuries. They have just discovered the location of the Botany Bay (which has crashed on the dark planet where Kirk and Cumby end up fighting). So the leader of the disciples, Cumby, wants to find the ship and release Khan so they can reclaim their rightful place as leaders of the Earth. Cumby’s plan for this involves infiltrating Starfleet, so he finds a staffer whose daughter has a disease that be cured with Augment technology, and enlists him in exchange for saving his daughter.

If the prologue really is years before Kirk joins Starfleet, then perhaps Cumby needs to enlist this person years before implementing his plan–maybe he needs someone to be really deep cover. He can keep Clarke on his side as long as he wants because, without regular doses of Augment technology, his daughter will get sick again and die. So he has to keep working for Cumby for years and years, until the time is right for Cumby to awaken Khan and take over.

Cumby’s plan involves crippling the Starfleet before going to awaken Khan, as he knows that if he doesn’t, they’ll easily catch up and stop him before he can get him. So his big plan, involving Clarke, is to crash the fleet right before he leaves to get Khan. Kirk and the Enterprise are spared and they pursue him to the planet where the Botany Bay crashes. They fight, and Cumby tries to release Khan, but realizes that the crash destroyed the stasis chambers and everyone is dead.

And he doesn’t look any older by the end because the Augment technology makes him age much more slowly.

Maybe Peter Weller is Khan, but only seen in archival footage or some kind of Cumby dream sequence. Maybe he is the CEO of a defense contractor that helps Cumby, thinking it will be powerful once he takes over. This would inevitably lead to the scene where Weller realizes he is just a pawn and Cumby kills him).

Just a theory.

366. Randall - December 10, 2012

@362 I am not Herbert

It’ll be even worse, for me, if they’ve rehashed Khan. It’d show an unmitigated lack of imagination on the part of these guys. EVEN IF they do away with Khan offscreen, and Weller and Cumberbatch are playing OTHER genetic “supermen.” Because it’s still more of the same–an idea done and done on the old Star Trek. There are at least a dozen other routes they could have taken with this second movie—and I’m still holding out that they’ve gone one of those.

I haven’t commented on the Enterprise being underwater because I just can’t believe it. The idea of this ship ALL ALONG was that it did NOT make planet fall, whether on dry land or not. It’s TOO F**KING BIG.

But it’ll be the sacrifice, once again, for established Star Trek “fact” for the sake of a great visual shot.

367. Pointed Sideburns - December 10, 2012

Folks it could be this…….Cumberbatch is one of two characters, a super enhanced Deltan (They have healing abilities like Lt Ilia initiated with Chekov in ‘The Motion Picture’ after he was zapped by VGer through the console) or it’s Redjac (Jack The Ripper was thought to be a doctor). Cumby’s character is introduced in London. It could be that Redjac returns to London.

368. Randall - December 10, 2012

@363 The Last Vulcan

What are these supposed shout outs? I count… TWO. Okay, whoop dee doo–you count four. Big deal. Shout outs don’t make for a plot. And Khan doesn’t fit this plot as laid out in the synopsis or what we’ve seen of it in the trailer or heard of it in the 9 minute preview.

As for your lame point about “pale Brits,” I’ll give that the attention it deserves by ignoring it.

369. Jenna - December 10, 2012

Keep in mind that the other hand is for sure not Cumberbatch’s in the photo (doesn’t take too much crazy analysis btw–you can tell from any pic that his pinky is actually about an inch shorter than his ring finger). And I can’t see why they’d be using a stunt double for a scene like that.

370. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

…the Enterprise was able to do a lot of stupidly implausible stuff in the first movie… might as well continue the Nu-Tradition! =(

371. Curious Cadet - December 10, 2012

@ 358 Randall,

“The only possible one is that it’s SUGGESTED that he has some kind of superhuman strength. Though as yet, I fail to see where that’s been conclusively determined.”

I agree with this. “One-man WMD” is hyperbole. I seriously doubt it is meant literally. To that end Jason Bourne is a “one-man WMD”. And indeed from what I’ve seen that’s exactly what this character is playing. He’s clearly well trained in combat, but so far nothing on-screen indicates super strength or ability.

Much has been made of the spy photo which some say proves Cumberbatch is resisting or “shaking-off” a Vulcan nerve pinch. But let me remind everybody right now … that’s a spy shot of something that may not actually be in the film, so NOT canon. The photo is not not in any particular order with respect to the others, nor can anyone say for certainty that Cumberbatch did not collapse immediately following that picture. So those photos aren’t even admissible as far as I’m concerned. Show it to me in a trailer and we’ll revisit.

372. MJ - December 10, 2012

@348 “I, in fact, strongly lean towards Mitchell.”

Then make the case from how Mitchell fits in with what we have seen in the trailer and reports of the 9-minutes of footage???

The Mitchell folks have bee so incredibly silent since the trailer and the reports of the nine minutes of footage have come out. One might conclude from this that they are no longer than confident about BC playing Mitchell, but I am here listening for someone to make the case as to why the scenes from the trailer and reported scenes from the nine minutes back the Mitchell case.

I repeat, I am waiting for someone from Mitchell to make the case here again now that we have this footage/reports from the 9 minutes. Have at it — we are all ready to listen????????????????????

373. gingerly - December 10, 2012


Told you so!


I have to say, I am most excited about this: “…with Karl Urban and Simon Pegg getting the best lines.”

And, AWWW Yeah, Trek-Team being all awesome on a mission!!

Let’s see if my other predictions come true.

374. MJ - December 10, 2012

@370 “Much has been made of the spy photo which some say proves Cumberbatch is resisting or “shaking-off” a Vulcan nerve pinch. But let me remind everybody right now … that’s a spy shot of something that may not actually be in the film, so NOT canon. The photo is not not in any particular order with respect to the others, nor can anyone say for certainty that Cumberbatch did not collapse immediately following that picture. So those photos aren’t even admissible as far as I’m concerned.”

Yea, but given we see Mitchell leap in the trailer like a Super-human, most reasonable people would rate that “shaking off the nerve pinch” scene as highly probably. It’s not like it doesn’t fit in the context of the trailer — in fact, it fits the context of the trailer perfectly.

This is not a court of law. As far as I am concerned, we are 99% likely to see that scene in the movie and it is ridiculous to not consider that a highly probable scene in the movie to discuss here.

375. Optimistic Doodle - December 10, 2012

Thank you, #359!

A brig, more than e.g. quarantine. Whatever happened to forcefields? ;-)

376. Randall - December 10, 2012

@371 MJ

In fact, I can see nothing that discounts Mitchell now EXCEPT for the mention of the stardate in the 9 minute preview. Nothing. Mitchell received god-like powers. We don’t KNOW what the hell he’d be capable of, if those powers were to continue to some ultimate fruition.

Equally, the suggestion of Garth of Izar is still one I think in play, just as much as Mitchell.

Alice Eve’s physical appearance still strongly suggests Elizabeth Dehner.

Nothing else has changed. I haven’t seen the 9 minute preview–and neither have you. We’ve only heard the reports of it. And for me, the only thing about it that goes against Mitchell is him showing up, apparently on Earth, on a date earlier than he could have.

377. MJ - December 10, 2012

@365. That is a really cool scenario, dude. And if adjusted, could support “the Khan” being revived in the 3rd movie.

378. Curious Cadet - December 10, 2012

@368 Randall,

“Shout outs don’t make for a plot.”

Amen brother!!

By that logic, the fact Kirk was marooned on Delta Vega in the first movie is conclusive proof that Nero was Gary Mitchell!!

And I just realized … that was a shout-out to the Pilot WNMHGB. The first Trek film by Abrams, paying homage to the first pilot (with Kirk), by marooning him on the very same planet (name anyway) that Kirk was going to maroon Mitchell (the bad guy) on … and as far as Spock was concerned, Kirk was the “bad guy” at that point.

So here we go again. The second Trek film made in this universe and Abrams is paying homage to the second Trek film ever made. But that in no way means this film has anything to do with Khan, just like the first film had nothing to do with Gary Mitchell.

379. Randall - December 10, 2012

I should make it further clear—I am simply centered on the “Heart of Darkness” allusion this movie is clearly making. AND how that does NOT fit Khan AT ALL.

In fact, if it were NOT for Orci saying that Cumberbatch is an already established canon character, I wouldn’t hazard the slightest guess as to who he might be. But Orci said it, and so we’re left with certain choices.

Mitchell and Garth still seem to make the most sense, given that.

380. The Last Vulcan - December 10, 2012

368. Randall – Ignore away.

The final definitive answer is that Cumby plays… Evil Kes! :P

381. Antni - December 10, 2012

And from that new photo I doubt Mitchell would be able to be put in the brig like that if he’s god-like. To be honest the speculation is tiring so I’m not bothered who the villain is anymore as long as it’s a good movie which looking at it looks like it’s going to awesome :)

382. harry mudd - December 10, 2012

Everyone of you has missed the OBVIOUS!!!!! BC is portraying Mr.Kyle in this movie!!!! BC is English, and Mr. Kyle was ,………..come on, help me out here,…………. ENGLISH!!!!! And I’m sure Mr.Kyle wants (and deserves) a bit of revenge for that small cameo inTWOK, LOL

383. MJ - December 10, 2012

1. Where are his glowing eyes?

2. Why does he need to engage in hand-to-hand combat — in TOS he simply used his mind for combat.

3. Why is he all of a sudden emotionally connected to Spock — they did not get along in TOS.

4. Why is he all of a sudden healing people.

Sure, other then these “MINOR” (lol) differences, he must be Mitchell — I am sure of it. ;-)

384. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

Nu-Trek is to Sci-Fi


Twilight is to vampires


385. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

It must be a character, that returns. Cumby says in the trailer, that he RETURNS FOR VENGEANCE!! We see airplane flying by, so everyone thought, Cumby was dead! So I suppose it’s the ceremony for Gary Mitchell, and then he returns to take over earth. But it’s not the real Gary Mitchell, it’s a kind of clone…

386. Dr. Khan - December 10, 2012

Dr. Khan calling…

I understand your daughter has an earache. Well, fear not, you inferior specimen of humanity. Dr. Khan has the cure. Yes, with Ceti Alpha Brand Eels your daughter will feel soothing relief right down to her cerebral cortex. And not only will her pain disappear, she won’t have to worry about thinking for herself ever again! It’s sort of like watching network television or voting for a populist politician. It just feels right.

(Side effects include headache, dry eyes, bleeding from the ears, screaming, madness, and death. If madness persists, please don’t bother contacting your physician or lawyer, as you will have already phasered yourself. Allow for two to three seconds for vaporizing to complete.)

“That’s Dr. Khan… What’s his name? Just Singh this song. It’s Dr. Khan.”

387. MJ - December 10, 2012

@378 “I should make it further clear….”

Exactly, you are backing off Mitchell just like most of the other people here who were so high on Mitchell just a week ago.

Right or wrong, most of us who thinks it Khan, have the wherewithal and staying power to stick with our views on this. When the synopsis made it sound a bit more like Mitchell, we didn’t get phased by it; but now that the trailer and reports of the 9-minutes of footage point more to Khan, the Mitchell folks are running for the exits and trying to cover their asses by modifying their opinions to just exclude Khan.

388. Sub Trek - December 10, 2012

Submerged Enterprise whiners:

There are a million ways to explain a need for this: They need to shoot a phaser or torpedo or plot-beam at the vulcano but they would be detected doing so.

Solution: submerge Enterprise far away in the ocean where no one sees it, dive to Volcano, fire away.

The technical aspect of the ship being able to operate is also easily explainable, and Scotty will do so jokingly.

389. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012


please see: WNMHGB…

1. do his eyes glow ALL THE TIME?

2. didn’t he engage in hand-to-hand? (pure omniscience is boring…)

3. non-sequitor

4. his “god-like” abilities. motivation? unknown.

…hope this clears thing up… (you’re welcome) ;-)

390. MJ - December 10, 2012

@389. Nice try.

391. Curious Cadet - December 10, 2012

@373 MJ,

“Yea, but given we see Mitchell leap in the trailer like a Super-human”

We don’t actually see that. We have all inferred that, and evidenced by Paramount editing two related shots out of sequence it appears that’s what he does. So in my book they would not do that except to intentionally mislead the audience … otherwise, use an actual sequence where the character is in fact exhibiting super-human traits.

1) They start with a later shot first
2) They cut right at the moment of take-off so as not to show any kind of running start
3) The angle of the camera makes it appear that he leaps up, when in reality he is moving forward and then down a relatively low 6-8 foot drop.
4) They cut to a previous shot where he is back on the platform he just lept off of!
5) He is fighting a Klingon with something in his hand he did not leap with
6) They cut right as he begins to spin suggesting he landed and pivoted all in one motion, clearly with the intent to demonstrate super-abilities

So, taking each shot separately, I don’t see anything about that leap or that fight that is anything more than a well trained soldier couldn’t pull off.

Assume all you want, invent what happens immediately before and after the cuts, but the facts are what they are. The film does not lie, and it shows absolutely nothing that confirms super-human ability.

Until we see more, there is absolutely nothing conclusive that can be drawn from these clips, especially since Paramount seems to be resorting to creative editing to show us something that would otherwise not require it, if Cumberbatch actually had super-human abilities.

392. MJ - December 10, 2012

But I’ll say this for you, I am not Herbert, at least you are not posting wishy-washy disclaimers that can get you a free pass out from your opinions if they are proven wrong. I commend you dude for being a straight-shooter and sticking to, and defending, your opinion on the villain here.

393. Phil - December 10, 2012

@388. One plausible explaination is all that’s necessary. Have not heard one yet. Just one.

394. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

Sub Trek:

“easily explainable”, yet you do not (explain)…


395. Richard - December 10, 2012

Ah MJ, you’re like the crazy grandpa of TrekMovie. I’m beginning to think more and more that you’re just trolling now.

396. Charley W - December 10, 2012

With this new information, I think that we can finally eliminate BC’s villian as being:

– Khan or any of the other Space Seed exiles (Abrams & crew are probably saving them for a future comic). An Augment on Earth remains a possibility, but this is assuming enhanced abilities.

– Gary Mitchell (been done in the comic & sequels would probably be done in that venue)

– Col Green

– ‘RedJack’ (BTW, I’ve studied Jack the Ripper and cannot find ANY instance where he’s called that, except in some modern fiction. Can anyone find a citation?)

– Z. Cochrane. He’s been used already and I think it would be too much to have him return unless they want to retell ‘Metamorphosis’. In the comics if it happens.

– probably Garth, although I still would like it to be him

– Trelaine, Balok, the Klingons, Romulans and most of the other alien characters (not their style)

In other posts, I have eliminated Charlie Evans, Peter Kirk (both due to age), Darvin (rather silly); and several others

I think Flint has become MORE likely. Do we know if Dr Severn was a medical doctor? Any other doctors that we can find? As for the various Starfleet personel, we do not know much, if anything about their backgrounds, so who knows what Decker’s, for instance, medical abilties were.

BTW- remember that Apollo, amonst his other attributes, was the god of healing to the ancient Greeks.

397. Sub Trek - December 10, 2012


His ears look a bit pointy again if you ask me.

398. MJ - December 10, 2012

@391. Yes we do see that. He’s super human, and you try very poorly to tell us we didn’t see this, and you also try very poorly to claim the shaking off the nerve pinch scene is not in the movie. He’s super-human or equivalent in some way — that is 99.9% probable.

I don’t need to spend pages of pages explaining to people not to believe those scenes photos — you do — that should tell anyone what is most probable here.

Ocaam’s Razor, my friend.

399. gingerly - December 10, 2012


“It’s a LION, It’s HUGE!!”

Sticking with Joachim, for now.

400. gov - December 10, 2012

let us not forget….

IDW’s Ongoing Series starts a 4-part prequel to Into Darkness in January.

Can they tell an entire prequel story without revealing the characters played by BC, Eve, and Weller?

Probably not.

For “Countdown”, the 4-part prequel comic to ST09, we got to learn all about Nero, his crew, his origin and his mission.

So, it is likely that we’ll start to get some answer in January, at least. All this speculation and mystery has me really excited for these four issues.

401. Pointed Sideburns - December 10, 2012

@396 Charley W

Don’t forget Lazarus.

402. Sub Trek - December 10, 2012


I gave a plausible explanation for why it goes underwater. This was what people couldn’t imagine in this thread.

What can you not believe about the technical aspect? Do you think there is more pressure on the Enterprise under water than there was in the last scene from ST09 where it gets sucked into a black hole? Do you think the engines wouldn’t work?

What about the scenario is implausible to you?

403. MJ - December 10, 2012

@402. I agree completely — the Enterprise can survive tremendous gravitational and other forces in space. It’s a no brainier that it can survive underwater — a no brainier.

404. BulletInTheFace - December 10, 2012

#362: You’re “disgusted” about the film when you, in fact, have no idea what the film is about. That is ridiculously melodramatic.

405. MJ - December 10, 2012

@396. Dude, the rest of your post lost all credibility for me when you kept Apollo in consideration, but eliminated Khan. LOL

406. Kirk Nelson - December 10, 2012

Heart of Darkness theme: Cumbervillain is a genetically enhanced guy (Khan) and offers to save the child. He does, and falls in love with her. He is a Starfleet Secret Agent. Later he is forced to stay on the Nibiru planet to avoid violating the prime directive. But then Kirk and Co. violate it, and he loses his “godlike” status. Comes back for revenge. ‘Splosions everywhere. Doesn’t detonate the Enterprise because his old girlfriend is on board.

The theme of family: The man at the beginning is forced to make some Faustian deal to save his daughter, that will ultimately benefit the villain. “Is there anything you wouldn’t do for your family?”

Later Kirk is forced to weigh the prime directive against his willingness to save Spock. “Is there anything you wouldn’t do for your family?”

Ultimate sacrifice, Kirk finds himself in a position to save the Enterprise at the cost of his own life, same as Spock Prime in Wrath of Khan. This time KIRK DIES.

407. Kirk Nelson - December 10, 2012

Maybe Khan is his codename. Or that is what the natives call him.

408. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

the black hole scene was LAUGHABLY IMPLAUSIBLE!

you’ve got warp drive, impulse drive, maneuvering thrusters, shields, deflectors, and tractor beams…

PLEASE… tell us how to “make it so”… =(

(rising out of the water, that is…)

409. MJ - December 10, 2012

@406. If Kirk dies, they will have a plot device to bring him back in Trek 3. They aren’t going to Trek 3 without Kirk involved

410. TheWrathOfBong - December 10, 2012

At the end, Cumberbatch shows up at Starfleet HQ to pick up some kind of package, and the receptionist says:

“You should use your full name. I like than name. Khan.”

411. MJ - December 10, 2012

@408. If you want to talk about hard scifi, then you are in the wrong place. We can dissect ST for all series, movies, etc and come up with stuff like you mention here. Explain to me time travel in Trek 4 for instance?

Big deal. What is your point???

412. Vince - December 10, 2012

I bet that it is Mitchell but he dies. Comes back with power, and calls himself “Khan” Khan is a fancy word for Dark Ruler. I bet it’s combination of both. Now that would be cool. Gary Mitchell becomes KHAN. This IS a different universe after all.

It makes sense. Remember how in an interview Cumberbatch said “I may be Khan, I may be not.” or something to that affect. If anyone can find the original interview.

413. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

look… the Enterprise does not “hover”, ESPECIALLY in a planetary gravity field…

the only way it works is with some STUPID EXCUSE =(

414. Sub Trek - December 10, 2012


I’ve seen interesting discussions why a ship the size of the new Enterprise would have a very hard time to fly in an atmosphere. But if you are willing to believe that (Voyager, though smaller(?), was able to many years later) then I see no reason why it shouldn’t work under water.

I bet there will be some techno-babble about the force and Scotty has to reinforce vigorously, but I still don’t see it to be a deal breaker at all.

You are right that the black hole scene was problematic, but that was a whole different beast.

415. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

if you CAN’T talk basic sci-fi, YOU are in the wrong place… ;-)

416. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

it’s NO DIFFERENT… just plain STUPID =(

417. Curious Cadet - December 10, 2012

@398 MJ

“Ocaam’s Razor, my friend.”

Yes it cuts both ways …

Your position, as is mine, is based 100% on what happens immediately before and immediately after what appears on the bits of film and images we are seeing. And with respect to those spy photos, there is no frame, literally no frame to tell us how to view the action.

There is NOTHING else in the images we see that proves Cumberbatch is anything more than a well trained Jason Bourne type. I’m looking at this objectively. I would venture you are not.

418. AJ - December 10, 2012



BC’s “villain” definitely has mega-strength, as the teaser clearly shows him beating the tar out of a Klingon with a giant something in a room full of dead/unconscious bodies.

You’ve got to lay off of those who change their minds as more information becomes available. When the film is actually released, if your opinion in proven wrong, will you still stick with it out of principal? I’m still a “Gary Mitchellist,” but I am now somewhat adrift because of the “healing” bit in London. That is NOT Mitchell’s schtick. He’s more of a “Kneel Before Zod” type of character.

I also have no problems with the Enterprise in water. Just because we’ve never seen it before, well, now we have. And it looks great.

419. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

yeah, if you can power a STARSHIP with a brewery… WTF, just make-up some stupid $hit that looks good to dullards… =(

420. MJ - December 10, 2012

@415. Star Trek has always been “soft” scifi. Always has, always will. I can only recommend that you try to love it in spite of its limitations and stop trying to pretend its hard sciif. It’s not hard sf, and that’s a fact.

421. MJ - December 10, 2012

@419. In TOS series — you could see plywood in some scenes? So???

422. gov - December 10, 2012

exactly when did the comments section become a competition about “who is right and who is wrong”?

Is one opinion “better” than another?

And aren’t opinions allowed to be fluid and changeable as new information is received? or as new points and arguments are made?

There is no “winner.” There is no prize for getting it right. Just have fun. And if you don’t like to speculate…at least understand that some people do like to speculate.

There are always….possibilities. <—That's important to remember.

423. Curious Cadet - December 10, 2012

@383 MJ,

“3. Why is he all of a sudden emotionally connected to Spock — they did not get along in TOS.”

Why do you undermine yourself like this “dude”?

To address your misconception — two words: Alternate Universe. In the canon comic, Mitchell and Spock have a fine relationship. Clearly you missed the memo, all bets are off. Spock did not get along with Kirk in ST09, but got along great in TOS.

But more importantly, we have no idea whose hands those are, nor why they are touching yet. Moreover, by acknowledging that you see this character mistaken as Mitchell, then you believe it is Khan and regardless of which universe there is no logical explanation for why Spock would be touching hands with Khan.

And finally you have so many more compelling arguments against Mitchell than this.

The fact that you don’t seem to be able to confine yourself to valid arguments causes all your pro Khan rhetoric to fall on deaf ears, not to mention your continuing efforts to discount the valid positions of others.

424. MJ - December 10, 2012

@418 “When the film is actually released, if your opinion in proven wrong, will you still stick with it out of principal? ”

No, I will say I was wrong and be accountable.

425. JIm - December 10, 2012

Who really cares if a Ship that is not even real in the first place can fly in the atmosphere or survive underwater. Its entertainment not a science project.

426. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

“soft” to you! CERTAINLY NOT to me!

(real) STAR TREK introduced us to a myriad of concepts that (real) science is still proving and discovering…

“soft” is what BobOrci writes… and what i hate… =(

427. MJ - December 10, 2012

@423. Dude, I am getting fatigued with your whole “don’t believe your eyes” and “we have no idea what’s going on” stuff. If you want to bury you head in a sand, go for it — that is your right. I am drawing conclusions, right or wrong, from what I see and think I know from all this — so crucify me for that if you must, but I’m not changing my views.

428. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012


429. Curious Cadet - December 10, 2012

@418 AJ,
“BC’s “villain” definitely has mega-strength, as the teaser clearly shows him beating the tar out of a Klingon with a giant something in a room full of dead/unconscious bodies.”

And this underscores my point, about people assuming things from very limited data.

The other possible explanation, is that Cumberbatch shot and killed most of those Klingons from a place of cover before advancing and taking out others that may have entered after he ambushed the rest. Ive seen this scenario in dozens of war films, it’s a perfectly legitimate strategy and could easily be what went on here.

So those bodies don’t suggest by themselves that Cumberbatch took out each one of them hand-to-hand. Why else would have a rifle slung around his shoulder.

We see one shot of him leaping, without knowing if he’s in low gravity, or got a running start, or what. And we see him swinging an piece of debris that could weigh as much as a metal pipe, swung in movie fights for decades.

These are all just assumptions based on two shots cut suspiciously out of order.

Believe what you want. I’m just trying to solve the riddle as DmDuncan would say, right or wrong. To me this is just one big misdirect by the King of Misdirection — JJ Abrams.

430. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#378. Randall

When you start off with a fallacious premise:“heart of darkness”

It kind of (sic) takes the edge off of anything further you have to say.

431. Curious Cadet - December 10, 2012

@427 MJ
“Dude, I am getting fatigued with your whole “don’t believe your eyes” and “we have no idea what’s going on” stuff.”

Well at least now you know how the rest of us feel with your whole “it’s Khan”, and “you’re an idiot, it’s Khan” stuff … ;-)

432. Sub Trek - December 10, 2012


I guess you had the same reaction to Voyager landing on planets? Again, what about it is so unbelievable? What makes the Impulse drive work in space but not air or water?

Remember that Impulse can go really fast, so space having no resistance isn’t an argument. To reach these speeds it needs a shitlot of power.

Pleas do give an answer apart from obscene, useless whining about too much techno-babble. ST introduced us to cerebral and humanist concepts. Please do state the hard technological concepts you believe Trek to have brought to this world.

If it’s going to be another empty reply without any substance consider this discussion done…

433. Dude Against Telephoto Paparazzi - December 10, 2012

I’ve got it! The Cumby character IS NOT superhuman because I read that they suits they wear give them “special abilities”. Think a powersuit, if you will. That is how he can jump and sling a huge piece of alloy to knock someone out.

Now, don’t ask me how he stops the Vulcan Neck Pinch from working.

AND, the spot on Cumby’s arm?….reflection. Simple. Hey, it was that or lens flare. :D

434. Charley W - December 10, 2012


I most certainly do NOT think Apollo is in the running: I actually think he is one of LEAST likely possibilities (even if he’s using a human avatar, it just doesn’t work as his style- although according to Homer, Apollo, Ares and Athena all actually FOUGHT in the Trojan war, not just taking sides). I just pointed out an interesting coincidence.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear on this.


Actually, I did forget Lazarus, but I would put him in the alien category as not what he’s about and therefore what’s the point to bring him in? (Although, give me awhile, and I could pprobably come up with a reasonable plot regarding him.)

435. Travis - December 10, 2012

Wait a tick! What if Benedict Cumberpatch is indeed playing KHAN and what if Noel Clarke, Nanzeen Contractor are casted not in the 23rd Century but in the year 1992-1993… The Eugenics Wars!!! Could we see Khan and his followers board the Botany Bay in the late 20th Century, leaving earth in the beginning of the Film?? Could be possible!! Not that i would love to see Garth of Izar, just that since the Sequel needs a top notch villain… Khan fits the bet!

436. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

Sub Trek:

Warp drive and impulse work PARALLEL to the ships longitudinal axis, i.e forward and backwards, NOT PERPENDICULAR, i.e. VTOL capability.

need i go any further…?

437. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

also, i’m SURE that they will NOT SHOW how the Enterprise got submerged, just as they DID NOT SHOW how the Enterprise got off of the ground after if was built… =(

438. Charley W - December 10, 2012


Actually, there are MAJOR differences between building something to keep pressure IN (spaceships) and keeping pressure OUT (submarines). There are different engineering solutions for the two problems. While something COULD be built for both situations, it would be a specialty vehicle, probably for research. That said, certainly future concerns MIGHT find a commonality in doing both, but I doubt it would become a general feature.

439. Pointed Sideburns - December 10, 2012

Breaking News:

Cumberbatch is playing John Harrison? The caption to the image is “(Left to right) Zachary Quinto is Spock, Benedict Cumberbatch is John Harrison and Chris Pine is Kirk in STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS from Paramount Pictures and Skydance Productions.” according to several sources. Are they trying to mess with us, or is this a new character not from canon?

Never heard of John Harrison

440. Anthony Lewis - December 10, 2012

I think the people who are aiming at a “rouge officer” type might be closer to the truth.

Personally I don’t think it would be Garth mainly because in 2012 when people hear that name they think of an SNL skit. I don’t think movie execs today would like that name. If Cumby is playing an officer and a British one I think Robert April is the best option. If you consider TAS to be cannon then he is a cannon character I suppose.

If they are taking after the Batman Nolanverse films at least in the way they are constructed, I think Khan may have been the first choice for the villain but after talks fell through with who they liked maybe they changed directions.

Avoid the Batman foul up (which granted they could not have predicted). After the first they overtly teased The Joker for film two (Orci and company have said that they thought about teasing the Botany Bay at the end of Trek ’09).

As a result of Ledger’s death, obviously there would be no Joker in the third film. And even though Rises was fun it just paled in comparison to TDK. If the third movie is the send off for this creative team then tease Khan at the end of this as the set up for the hug finale!

441. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

Bob Orci is making “Star Trek” look stupider than Galaxy Quest did… =(

442. dontcare - December 10, 2012

@435. Before Noel’s character is seen we there is a Stardate shown on the screen, they are not in the past, but rather a year after the 2009 movie (in 2259).

@ Herbert. If it bugs you that much, don’t watch it, don’t read articles about it, don’t comment on articles about it, and leave all of us able to enjoy FICTION alone. Star Trek has NEVER been “hard” Science Fiction, not by a long godd-mn way, the fact that any real scientific advances were inspired by it is just dumb luck, and halfway decent writing.

@433. The thing on Cumby’s arm is plainly some sort of monitoring device, not a reflection, if he is in the brig it makes perfect sense.

443. dontcare - December 10, 2012

@436. The funny thing is that you think that is an actual argument.

444. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

yes, of course REAL spaceships can and do fly underwater, and underground!

but we are talking about specific Starfleet technology here… ;-)

445. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

dontcare: it’s NOT dumb-luck… LOL! IT’S VISIONARY =)

446. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#434. Charly W

FWIW AntiLazarus would try to cure the girl if he could. Lazarus wouldn’t even notice her on his holy quest that leads to total annihilation.

447. Fascinoma - December 10, 2012

I love how I’ve got everyone using the name Cumbervillain now. ;)

So, with regard to the ship being underwater…

Two words. Force fields. I always thought that’s how shielding and such was handled.

448. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

Herbert: Star Trek is known for having weird throwaway solutions and plot devices. The Enterprise coming out of the water is a piece of cake, I mean, they have not impulse and warp drive, but thrusters, right? Don’t they also adjust the position of the ship in space, to orient them correctly to starbases and such? They may be powerful to make the ship go VTOL too.

JJ is not doing anything much different than any other Trek movie. Take TWOK. How does a planet just EXPLODE? I mean, really? And how does it explode and knock another planet OUT of it’s orbit, with survivors on that planet? And don’t get me started on the Praxis/Hobus explosion and the shockwaves.

It’s called suspension of disbelief. Many movies have weird things that add to the cinematic appreciation of the entire film. I was able to overlook the brewery, as you said, and wondering how they went to warp after ejecting the warp core, “This cadet is trying to save the bridge” and all sorts of nonsense because it was a film that if not the best Trek film, had some of the best messages and gut kicking emotionality. “David is dead” is nothing compared to “I’m not going to be there” in the first opening minutes of ST2009.

449. TheWrathOfBong - December 10, 2012


1. The entire premise of Star Trek is based on travel faster than the speed of light, which is impossible (by today’s scientific standard). If the idea of a spaceship that can also go underwater is so troubling to you, how the hell do you watch Star Trek at all without the technical impossibilities making you go batty?

2. Why do you assume that what we all think is “impossible” today could not be proven possible by later scientific discoveries? Is it such a leap to think that, if we can develop faster-than-light travel, we can make those ships go underwater as well? Certainly, we have technologies today that were once thought impossible, such as space travel, television and the KFC Double Down. With all the leaps in logic/belief that enjoying Trek requires, why is this one so troubling for you?

450. Skulltrail - December 10, 2012

I googled the John Harrison and found that Wikipedia-article!!! A clock-builder from London … I didn’t read the whole article yet, but maybe it has something to do with time-travelling or something like that?! Maybe we get hint from this or can anyone make some clues in respect of the comics?! What I had in mind before, before I saw this with the John Harrison was that we should concentrate on a main villain of an episode! For example : A Augment who survived during the Augment crisis of ENT would also be canon so far … Maybe with this presumeably aging of the child she has some special genetic material which could help the villain!!! But I really don’t have any idea who the villain could be!

451. Colin - December 10, 2012


Starships do not travel FTL, in fact they don’t even move. The space around them WARPS faster than the speed of light, which is physically possible, in fact NASA had an article about it a few weeks ago.

But I’m not trying to nitpick because I agree with what you’re saying, I don’t care that the Enterprise goes underwater, I think it is awesome, I just hope its not overused

452. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

TRUTH is “stranger” than fiction… Don’t tell me that FTL speed is not possible! LOL!

READ what i just said about REAL spaceships…?

453. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

ever heard of “hyperspace”…?

454. I am not Herbert - December 10, 2012

NASA is a cover story… ever heard of Solar Warden…?

455. cw - December 10, 2012

did anyone think that the blue shirt and BC are mindmelding? Passing info on….?

456. Phil - December 10, 2012

In space, the stresses a ship would have to resist are the shears you would expect from sub light flight, protection from radiation. At warp you have the warp field moving space around the ship, so FTL should not be a flight environment, to some extent. Any vessel that is going under water is resisting a unique set of pressures, and there needs to be structure to address boyancy. As it’s been established that impulse drive burns fuel, and thrusters vent gas, suggesting that one size fits all propulsion is just silly. As is engaging the warp drive when landed. As it was pointed out by another poster, the design parameters for keeping pressure out are substantially greater then keeping it in.
Sci-fi being what it is, I could understand if the Federation had a speciality ship for underwater research. Trek has had it’s large ships of the line as space faring vessels only, and to toss that out the window because a shot of Enterprise rising from the sea is just a gimmick. Jump the shark, nuke the fridge time.

457. Midtown - December 10, 2012

I think I got it!

The roles for Weller & Cumberbatch will be

Captain Ron Tracey and Cloud William.

Bring on the E Pleb Neesta – in IMAX!!

458. Charley W - December 10, 2012


I thought the name was familiar. He was the fellow who solved the Problem of Longitude, aklthough he never received the prize offered. There was an episode of Nova a few years concerning the story.


Remember in ST3, it is stated specifically that to mindmeld a Vulcan must be able to physically TOUCH the other person.

459. Charley W - December 10, 2012

oops: Previous message: “a few years AGO”

460. trekmaster - December 10, 2012


How did you get this? Source?

461. Randall - December 10, 2012

@387 MJ

Really? You feel that invested in this that you can go around harping on people for “lack of convictions?” Jesus Christ, this is ALL speculation.

IN POINT OF FACT I have *always* said that A) I do NOT believe for a moment that this is Khan, MOREOVER I have said repeatedly that I feel it SHOULD NOT be Khan and I’ve pointed out WHY. That’s the negative. As for who Cumberbatch IS playing—I said I LEANED towards Mitchell but nearly equally leaned towards Garth. What the f**K is wrong with that? It’s the way the scenarios make SENSE. Khan does NOT make sense, no matter how much you may want it to.

Here’s a fact for you: Khan’s supermen were NOT immune to the neck pinch. Watch the freakin’ original episode again. Spock uses it on one of them with no problem. Khan and his people are stronger – he states at one point “five times” the strength of an average man, like Kirk. That’s not all that superhuman. In fact, probably not much stronger, if it all, then a good pro weightlifter. So why would they be immune to the neck pinch?

Of course if you want to get into it, Mitchell wasn’t immune to the neck pinch either—at least not in the early stages of the development of his powers—and Garth wasn’t either.

The scene with the neck pinch, then—IF it’s even in the film, and IF it ends with Cumberbatch shrugging the pinch off—and IF Cumberbatch is Khan or another “superman”—would be another example of Abrams’ people getting canon wrong…. but NOT an indicator of anything MORE than that, at present.

I ALSO said that IF Orci hadn’t come out with the statement that Cumberbatch was playing someone canon, then none of this would matter—he could be playing anybody or anything for that matter. BUT given Orci’s statement, it’s just plain sensible that this is A) NOT Khan and B) is MOST likely to be Gary Mitchell, given the hints so far… with C) a slighter chance that this is Garth of Izar, with some fiddling around with HIS powers by the Abrams’ team.

462. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

If starships can dock in spacedock they have navigational thrusters that can be fired in any direction needed to that end.

We know from previous battles throughtout all of Trek that various compartments and sections can be sealed off. The have replicators so they should be able to manufacture ballast as needed.

If starships lose sensors and sheilds in nebulas, how do they see where they are going in water or the atmosphere? On Earth, I suppose they could plug into orbiting satellites.

But on an alien world, they’d have to rig up a SONAR or have the forethought to already have a satellite network in place.

But when you have transwarp transporters, why would you need to dive-in to get to an underwater volcano?

463. Charley W - December 10, 2012


If at some point in the future someone comes up with a pill that if you take it, you don’t need to breathe for 3 days, does that wipe out OUR current need to breathe? Of course not, any more than the current impact theory of dinosaur extinction erase that there were other things going on at the end of the Cretaceous that made being a large vertebrate difficult. The impact was a factor, probably the major one, but there were others.

A better example is that you still use Newtonian Physics to explain normal day to day activities, but at high speeds it doesn’t work, so you use Relativity. Relativity complemented Newton, it did not toss him into the wastecan. And the same will happen if we come up with the answer to Quantum Physics or TOE (Theory of Everything)>

464. Midtown - December 10, 2012

@460: Pure speculation on my part about the actors – but Weller as Captain Ron Tracey would be great to see. IMHO, Weller is one of the few performers around with the acting chops to inhabit that role.

465. TheWrathOfBong - December 10, 2012


Things are possible today that were considered impossible a couple hundred years ago. So to criticize a movie that takes place two hundred years in the future because it involves technologies that we think are impossible is foolhardy. That was what I was talking about.

What the hell are YOU talking about?

466. trekmaster - December 10, 2012


467. charley w - December 10, 2012

One possibilty is that ‘John Harrison’ may have been a code name used in memos, phone calls, etc to keep the BIG SECRET, and the website assumed it was actually who he is playing.

468. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#455. cw

In another thread, I did. I postulated Spock was using his patented (see:Kelvins) through the wall meld which isn’t as effective as touching but will do in a pinch (Pun intended.)

469. charley w - December 10, 2012


My point is that, yes there are continuously new discoveries/technologies (and I can come up with others than the ones that you mention), but they NOT erase everything that has gone before. In spite of electronic technology, our civilization is still based upon fire, the wheel and the lever. You are insisting that the POSSIBILITY of future discoveries cancel out current technology and physics NOW. (Yes, I know it’s Science Fiction, but you can only trash my Suspension of Disbelief SO far until it becomes Fantasy.)

Watch James Burke’s Connections series (it’s available on DVD or YouTube) for how Technology actually works historically.

470. charley w - December 10, 2012


check the earlier messages or look him up in Wikipedia. However, it is a common name, so it may have no relation to the historical figure.

I have given a possibility in #467

471. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

Harris was the Section 31 recruiter:

472. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

Harrison was a blue shirt in Prime Kirk’s crew:

473. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

He also wears different colors, not only blue.

474. Bob Tompkins - December 10, 2012

IMAX 3D leaves me with a migraine headache, so I’ll have to pass on the Hobbit and that format upon release.

475. trekmaster - December 10, 2012

Call him John Doe. Maybe John Harrison is a pseudonym…

476. Red Dead Ryan - December 10, 2012

John Harrison was featured in a number of TOS episodes, including “Space Seed”.

Having said that, it’s more likely that the name “John Harrison” is merely a pseudonym/disguise for the true character that Benedict Cumberbatch is playing.

Sort of like how Henri Ducard was a false guise of Liam Neeson’s Ra’s al-Ghul for two thirds of “Batman Begins”…

477. Phil - December 10, 2012

John Harrison returns to Earth, seeking vengence on the family that disowned him from the family pawn shop…..

478. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

461 Randall

You’ve got your beliefs on who the baddie may be, and you’re entitled to them, because we can all literally say “Your guess is as good as mine” at this point?

But two quibbles *L*

1) Can’t be Khan? What piece of info absolutely excludes him? I understand that you may think its unlikely, but its still possible, and there are pretty good supportive theories going around.

2) Khan possibly shrugging off a Vulcan Neck Pinch would violate Canon? Come on, think about it for a second. If there is a technique which will render a human unconscious, there is SOME human, maybe a Dr or martial artist, that knos about it. And maybe knows how to defend against it. Nobody typically sees it coming, but of they saw it coming, couldn’t they shift of flex their muscles to move the nerves around and block the application? Or deaden the area with a hypocrites if you know Spocks coming

479. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012

461 Randall

You’ve got your beliefs on who the baddie may be, and you’re entitled to them, because we can all literally say “Your guess is as good as mine” at this point?

But two quibbles *L*

1) Can’t be Khan? What piece of info absolutely excludes him? I understand that you may think its unlikely, but its still possible, and there are pretty good supportive theories going around.

2) Khan possibly shrugging off a Vulcan Neck Pinch would violate Canon? Come on, think about it for a second. If there is a technique which will render a human unconscious, there is SOME human, maybe a Dr or martial artist, that knos about it. And maybe knows how to defend against it. Nobody typically sees it coming, but of they saw it coming, couldn’t they shift of flex their muscles to move the nerves around and block the application? Or deaden the area with a hypocrites if you know Spocks coming

480. Dan - December 10, 2012

Cumberbatch is playing Gary Mitchell.
Alice Eve is playing Elizabeth Dehner.
You heard it here first.

481. Trek Fan - December 10, 2012

MJ – you like to use places, like that website, as the end all and be all. They are not confirming anything. They are going by what are more than likely, people’s opinions on what they saw. If Alice Eve’s character was confirmed, you would have heard it here or on a major media outlet. Keep reaching buddy… your perseverance is inspiring!

482. Disinvited - December 10, 2012

#479. LogicaLeopard

I typo with the best of them, but deaden nerves with hypocrites? Twice! I think your Freudian slip is showing.

483. Phil - December 10, 2012

Replicate some ballast? I’ll bet the replicator makes one hellva blow up doll, too.

484. LogicalLeopard - December 10, 2012


Hyposprays! I hate autocorrect….

485. Dismayed - December 10, 2012

You guys aren’t thinking like movie makers. I haven’t read the synopsis that is apparently floating around, but my first thought is why are you assuming the opening sequence takes place in the 23rd Century?

It’d be a classic moviemaker ploy for the first few minutes to occur, say, during the Eugenics Wars. While Khan is still on Earth. Then maybe flash forward 100+ years to finding him in deep freeze in space. I’m not saying this is the storyline, I have no idea, I’m just showing you how a writer could totally make this work.

486. Dilithium_doublebock - December 10, 2012

I got it!!!
Yes. It is the Enterprise under water.
Opening scene with hungover Kirk and McCoy on the red weed planet,
“Dude, where’s my spaceship?”

487. Phil - December 10, 2012

@486…(Kirk, staring up into the sky) Maaaaan, I’m hungery. Harold! Kumar, get me some White Castles now!

488. MJ - December 10, 2012

@485 “It’d be a classic moviemaker ploy for the first few minutes to occur, say, during the Eugenics Wars. While Khan is still on Earth. Then maybe flash forward 100+ years to finding him in deep freeze in space. I’m not saying this is the storyline, I have no idea, I’m just showing you how a writer could totally make this work.”

Awesome idea!!!

489. CJ - December 11, 2012

Has anyone considered that the same lifeline BC is offering in the 9 minute clip also what he is doing with Spock with the hands on the glass seen? “Is there anything you would not do for your family?”

Could he be offering a way to bring back Spock’s mother?

490. dontcare - December 11, 2012

@485. Cause they already screened the opening 9 minutes for the press, and they give a Stardate at the beginning, it’s about a year after the 2009 movie.

491. JiffyPop - December 11, 2012

Question, there was a shot released showing Cumby behind glass on the enterprise with Spock and Kirk looking at him from the other side…..are Cumby’s characters hands deformed?

492. penguins28212 - December 11, 2012

Hey MJ,

Why are you on such an ego trip about whether or not BC is playing Khan? I have been reading TrekMovie since long before ST09 came out, probably around the time the site started. I haven’t really commented all that much because there isn’t much for me to say. But frankly, I decided to post this because I find your comments to be generally unbecoming, and quite frankly, stupid.

Have a wonderful day.

493. Rose (as in Keachick) - December 11, 2012

#492 – Charming…:(

Even though your comment was directed at MJ, I have to say that I do not like posters such as yourself – people who hang around only to come out and say something negative and personal about another poster. As you say, there isn’t much for you to say. This is one comment that would have been best kept to yourself.

Next time, find something positive to comment about. Star Trek, in any iteration, has lots of positives going for it!

494. penguins28212 - December 11, 2012

I don’t believe a poster such as MJ is positive thing for the Star Trek community. Nobody should be praising themselves as having called the villain correctly, particularly when it’s a fairly simple choice.

To put it simply, yes, you’re right that I should have something positive to comment about. However, there’s no need to play politics with whether the villian is Khan or Mitchell, or anyone else for that matter. It’s derisive to the community and creates the kind of conflicts that Gene Roddenberry would simply not approve.

Something positive to say about Star Trek? I think what JJ has done is great. It’s brought a new look into the universe, from a different light, without rebooting the whole universe. I love what he’s doing.

495. Phil - December 12, 2012

@494. Sure he is – he made an educated guess about it, and is (seemingly) right about it….for the moment. If, in six months, he turns out to be wrong, I’d expect him to man up and admit that, too. It’s all opinion and conjecture at thi point, anyway. Nothing to get your undies in a knot over, or to be making grand proclaimations on who is or isn’t fit to be a part of the community. There are plenty of people who post here who can find a way to turn any subject into an anti-JJ rant. Point your ire at them.

496. Fez - January 3, 2013

The villain is Omnedon from Price of the Phoenix by Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath. He has a transporter technology called “Phoenix” that allows him to duplicate people. He can fix what is wrong so he can heal someone that his dying. He gains control over powerful people by offering to save their loved ones. He is from a race of “Supermen.” His people were destroyed when someone violated the Prime Directive, so he hates Starfleet and Captain Kirk. John Harrison is a duplicate of himself (Omnedon) he made with his high tech transporter.

This is all conjecture on my part. No inside info. is represented by Gorilla Nation. Please contact Gorilla Nation for ad rates, packages and general advertising information.