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TrekInk: Review of Star Trek #18 February 19, 2013

by Mark Martinez , Filed under: Comics,Review,Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

uhura IDW Publishing releases Star Trek #18 this week. This issue of the ongoing series focuses on Uhura, the beginning of her relationship with Spock, and an event that takes place when she was a child. Spoilers ahead.

Star Trek #18
Written by Ryan Parrot, script consultant Mike Johnson, creative consultant Roberto Orci, art by Claudia Balboni, inks by Erica Durante, colors by Claudia SGC, letters by Shawn Lee, edited by Scott Dunbier

Story

Starfleet Academy: It’s the end of the term and Uhura has already uploaded her thesis and finished with the highest score in the class. She invites her teacher, Spock, to dinner. Several months later, Spock asks Uhura to engage in Emafa Kito, a momentary mind-meld to share fears, hopes, dreams and memories. Years earlier: Nyota is aboard a shuttle with her parents and uncle. Meteorite damage forces Nyota’s uncle Raheem to suit up and check the shuttle exterior. An explosion severely damages the shuttle. Still outside the shuttle, Raheem must calm his frightened niece and carefully instruct Nyota how to get her parents safely into the escape pod. Once free from the shuttle, it explodes, and Nyota is stunned to see her uncle already beginning to re-enter the atmosphere. Burning up, Raheem tells Nyota how proud he is of her.

never

Sharing a private memory.

Review

I found the last issue of the ongoing series, featuring McCoy, a little disappointing. Not so for Ryan Parrot’s tale of Uhura’s past. Her courtship of Spock and a very emotional story from her childhood tell us a lot about her strength and passion for life. We don’t see this depth of character in comics very often. Her story doesn’t tell us anything about the forthcoming movie, but it’s clear that Uhura can handle anything that comes her way. The artists, Claudia Balboni and Erica Durante provide sensational artwork to go with the story. Likewise, Claudia Scarletgothica’s colors add to the poignant atmosphere of this very satisfying episode in the ongoing series. Still to come in the run-up to the new movie are issues featuring the rest of the crew, Scotty (issue #19), Checkov and Sulu (issue #20).

Tim Bradstreet’s cover art features Uhura over a profile of Spock, who is also featured on the retailer incentive photo cover. Uhura has great posture in all the cover images she appears on. I don’t know why, but that seems amusing to me. I suppose that’s better than being hunched over a comm panel.

Star Trek #18 cover art by Tim Bradstreet

Cover: Art by Tim Bradstreet

Star Trek #18 RI A cover art by Tim Bradstreet Star Trek #1B RI B photo cover

Cover RI A: Art by Tim Bradstreet, Cover RI B: Photo cover

Star Trek #18 is coming to your local comic shop this Wednesday, February 20, and in digital format same day as print. This issue will be available in a trade paperback collection this summer, Star Trek, Volume 5, July 2013.

Preview of Star Trek #18

Star Trek #18 page 1 Star Trek #18 page 2 Star Trek #18 page 3 Star Trek #18 page 4 Star Trek #18 page 5 Star Trek #18 page 6 Star Trek #18 page 7

Mark Martinez is an obsessive-compulsive Star Trek comics reader and collector. You can visit his website, the Star Trek Comics Checklist for more than you ever needed to know about Star Trek comics.

Comments

1. Jovius the Romulan - February 19, 2013

Messed up here — the preview is for Countdown to Darkness #2.

2. Tamarian - February 19, 2013

I look forward to reading this one. It’s really nice to get some in-depth back-story on all these characters.

3. Tamarian - February 19, 2013

Here’s the link to the preview of Uhura’s back-story.

http://www.startrek.com/article/countdown-to-darkness-continues

4. Djeewhy - February 19, 2013

Excuse me if I am an idiot, I thought Nero had modified the timeline to create a new independant one, but , now, you say April was in command of a ship that existed before Nero’s arrival and was decommissined 2 years before Kirk got the chair on NCC1701.What about Spock? He was in Starfleet before Kirk, and apparently doesn’t know the name of April neither the former Enterprise. I don’t follow you anymore! No more!

5. Robman007 - February 19, 2013

It sounds like the Original Enterprise existed before the “abrams” Enterprise….the ship as well as the constitution class fleet was “decommissioned” in a sense and rebuilt as a highly advanced ship that shared the same name.

Would make sense…the original Enterprise was an old star ship even when Kirk took command.

6. Mark Martinez - February 19, 2013

I fixed the preview. Sorry about the confusion.

7. Craiger - February 19, 2013

#4 – The timeline changed in 2238 and Kirk didn’t get the Enterprise until 2258 in the new timeline. So their could be enough time between those date for their to have been another Enterprise before Pike’s and Kirk’s.

8. copper based blood - February 19, 2013

IDW must be running out of covers, isn’t the photo cover the same cover to issue #4 of IDW’s STAR TREK 2009 movie adaptation cover?

9. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 19, 2013

#7 – The alternate universe timeline occurred 25 years before Kirk came to be on board the Enterprise. Kirk entered the Academy at age 22 and qualified in three years, not four, as he said he would. Prime Spock came through the wormhole (which, for prime Spock, felt like only seconds) 25 years after Nero entered. When Nero asked Captain Robau what the date was, Robau said 2233.04.

10. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 19, 2013

I love it. I always figured that Spock/Uhura relationship was not a student/teacher one. He was no longer her instructor when she initiated whatever it was that they might have by asking him to dinner. I have never believed that those two would have been so silly.

I am also glad to see that the writers are showing that, at least by the 23rd century, that large organizations like Starfleet appear to have a more enlightened attitude toward consenting adult relationships of various kinds (friendships and/or sexual ones). Thank goodness for that!

11. Efren - February 19, 2013

so is ongoing canon as is the coutdown comics>?

12. Mark Martinez - February 19, 2013

@8 Good catch. Spock’s photo was used for Star Trek Movie Adaptation #3 back in Apr 2010.

13. Jovius the Romulan - February 19, 2013

Nitpick here — Spock using contractions in speech. He has never used contractions and neither did any other Vulcan in the original series and movies. It bothered me when Sakonna did it in Deep Space Nine as well as all the Vulcans in Enterprise.

14. FarStrider - February 19, 2013

@13 Spock does use contractions in TOS (I believe he did it in COTEOF). . . DATA was the one who wasn’t able to use contractions, and even he did it once. ..

~FS

15. Jovius the Romulan - February 19, 2013

… fine. He VERY RARELY used contractions. :)

16. The Sinfonian - February 19, 2013

Good review, Mark. This issue is definitely looking superb compared to the misfire that was the Pamela McCoy issue. I wish the artists had made Nyota’s mother look like Nichelle Nichols though!

@13 Spock *rarely* uses contractions. You’re thinking of Data who almost never uses contractions. Spock used them frequently in TOS. Even in the sample pages here, I only find Spock using “I’ve” (phonetically close to “I have” with a reduced vowel) and “you’re” (close to “you are” with a reduced vowel)… contrasting with many instances in the sample pages of him saying “it is” rather than “it’s” and “what is” rather than “what’s”. That seems rather rare then, if he only contracts 2 out of 6 or so opportunities.

17. The Sinfonian - February 19, 2013

Sorry, time lag in postings…. @13,15 Jovius, you make an interesting point though! There is a phenomenological review of this manner of speaking, which one can observe at this link: ;)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpockSpeak

18. Jemini - February 19, 2013

commenting just the preview I can say:
- I find it funny that she believes that he’s trying to take her to bed lol and in a way, he’s asking her something that is far more intimate, at least for him. Must be [the relationship] a serious thing for him if he asks her to mind meld with him. Anyway, thank you for putting something from his culture in the relationship
- Is that Spock’s apartment? I think there is a mistake there as you can see a girl (presumably Uhura from another panel) on the left (at first I thought they were in a restaurant and that girl was a waitress lol but I then noticed that she doesn’t have half of her body.. )

10. Rose (as in Keachick)
I too thought that their relationship started later.
I also thought that as soon as she wasn’t his student anymore it wasn’t against the rules for them to date each other but perhaps they still chose to keep their relationship private by choice which makes totally sense rules or not

19. Dee - lvs moon' surface - February 19, 2013

I loved Uhura’s attitude in the right time … obviously she knew this was the only way she could have a chance with Mr. Spock.

20. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 19, 2013

I’m not sure why Spock thought that people might think him posting Uhura to the Enterprise (which is clearly where she was meant to be) as showing “favouritism”. The only thing I can think of is how some people can be so envious, jealous and snarly about another person’s success, in either their professional or personal life and so Spock tried not to expose Uhura to that possibility. Perhaps someone made a snarly comment to him about the two of them. It happens, unfortunately, and it’s not very nice. Clearly, Uhura was not going to be denied her rightful place by anyone for any reason and fair enough too. Go Uhura!

21. Amorican - February 19, 2013

Several months into dating this broad, and Spock still hasn’t sealed the deal? She practically threw herself at him! This guy has no game!

22. Adolescent Nightmare - February 19, 2013

Highest score in her class.

23. Jeyl - February 20, 2013

@23 “Lastly …..Data from TNG was the only one that never used contractions. It was one of the main distinction between him and his twin brother LORE.”

Data does use contractions.

“Correction sir. That’s blown out.”

24. gingerly - February 20, 2013

I am so happy to see something of Uhura’s backstory.

FINALLY!!! It took nearly 50 years, but we got it!

I think my favorite thing about this is the harrowing and life-shaping adventure she has as a child. I am so glad to see her family members.

….So we get to see a bit of culture from Vulcan and East Africa.

YEA!!!

Though, I hope there’s a bit more specificity, like country, state, and city where Uhura lived.

I hope we get some bits of Swahili.

25. Simon - February 20, 2013

@24 – Data used them when the writer’s bible was still in flux. Once the character was established, he could no longer use them. Not easily at least. Remember that’s one thing that 4th season “Future Imperfect” Riker picked up on.

26. Ctrl-Opt-Del - February 20, 2013

How could she be so sure that she was the top in the class if not everyone had submitted their final work by that point?

Seems a bit presumptuous & arrogant…

27. Jemini - February 20, 2013

20. Rose (as in Keachick)
Spock knows about prejudices very well as he had experienced them himself since he was a kid and even among the vulcans so I think that this [the reason you theorized] most likely is the reason why in the hangar scene he said that he was worried about the appearance of favoritism.

28. gingerly - February 20, 2013

@28

Hmm. I like this theory. It makes sense to me.

@27

Yes, Uhura is being presumptuous and arrogant…. Or the likelier theory is that this is a simple plothole not spotted by the writers???

Oh, but it’s more fun to see Uhura as somehow lacking, right?

Stay classy, fandom.

29. Jack - February 20, 2013

I liked this. I wish these things weren’t so short.

30. Tamarian - February 20, 2013

Mark, your review was spot on. I just got through reading this story, and I’m not ashamed to say that it definitely moved me. I was totally unprepared for the depth of the story–but you told us didn’t you? This is one of the best back-stories that I’ve read thus far. The team didn’t a really good job!

#30 Jack–I totally agree with you. These comics are too short. Especially when the story is especially good.

31. Ctrl-Opt-Del - February 20, 2013

29. gingerly – Reel your fraking neck in, it was a joke doofus.

32. wi-kiry-lan - February 20, 2013

Agreed with 27. Highest score in the class before the due date sounds like they weren’t thinking when they were writing – which is consistent with the reboot universe – but hey they needed to establish Uhura is awesome and can make a good retort.

33. gingerly - February 20, 2013

@32

Riiiight. Because it’s so clearly “a joke”.

And so is calling me a doofus and calling for me to reel in something that wasn’t extended?

I don’t know you like that for you to be name-calling.

Anyone who’s not a troll knows that bashing Uhura is common enough that you shouldn’t make statements like that.

You weren’t joking.

You’re trying to save face, now.

Again, stay classy.

34. Spuhura Addict - February 20, 2013

Yea~ An authentic back story and not fan-fiction dribble.
This is awesome! Gotta buy it.

35. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 20, 2013

Yes, Uhura does seem a bit presumptuous in assuming that she got the highest grade. Maybe she was doing a bit of quipping and more than a bit of hopeful thinking.

36. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 20, 2013

I personally suspect that the dialogue regarding highest grade was just sloppy writing. However, you could also spin it that she meant she got the highest possible grade (ie 100%) – she’s supposed to be smart enough and hard working enough for that to be the case.

As I buy the comics bound up in the Volume n paperbacks, and this comic will be in Volume 5, I’ve got to wait until August-September 2013 to get it, according to Amazon :-(

37. Spuhura Addict - February 20, 2013

Presumptuous…not at all.
Most of the time in academia, in high school as well as on the collegiate level, the student who has the highest GPA going into the final exam or term paper, will also be the same student who receives the highest grade in the class. Mainly because, that student has maintained the highest GPA consistently throughout the semester. So, it really wouldn’t matter how the other students performed on their finals. If Uhura was the forerunner going into her exams and presuming she didn’t flunk her final, which we know she didn’t, and maintained her high level of performance throughout her final term paper, it wouldn’t be a forgone conclusion that she also retained her high level of excellence on her final (since it was already graded) and beat out all her other classmates.

(You could also liken this theory to trying to surpass, your proposed high school valedictorian or saludetorian even if you tried to ace all of your finals.)
It’s the same principle. Uhura is sharp.

38. Phil - February 20, 2013

@27. Well, she was porking her teacher. That’s usually good for a high grade…..nobody here seems to have an issue with fraternization, so lets just call it for what it is, fraternizing. It creates the appearance of improper promotion, so what the hell, let everyone do it.

39. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 20, 2013

For those who don’t have access to this issue yet, someone has uploaded the final frame of the comic to the internet. I won’t post a link here as I’m unsure of the etiquette/ethics of doing so, but it’s fairly easy to find. The frame is absolutely gorgeous, both in content and execution. I agree, based on what I’ve seen so far, that the artwork in this issue is exceptional.

40. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 20, 2013

@39 Phil

Did you actually read the review and the first 7 pages of the comic? She did NOT enter into a personal relationship with him until he was no longer her teacher, and as for any intimacy – that appears to be quite a few months down the track from the first dinner.

We don’t really know what the fraternisation rules are for Starfleet in the 23rd century – we can only guess. The comic does establish he was no longer her teacher when they started the personal relationship. Whether she was working for him as a TA during this time is unclear, and again we don’t know what the rules are in such a situation. We do know that when he was in a position to make a decision regarding her deployment, he put her on the Farragut to avoid the ‘appearance of favouritism’, even though she was objectively qualified for the Enterprise. She called him out on it, and rightly so in my opinion.

41. Trekkiegal63 - February 20, 2013

#41 ObsessiveStarTrekFan:

I swore I was going to stay away from this thread for my own sanity. Oh well. As a Navy brat, born and raised, I couldn’t let this one go…

I understand where Phil is coming from. Our real life military does have a fraternization policy, an entire subjection of the UCMJ, with very specific rules against romantic relationships between both Chief Petty Officers and Junior Enlisted within the same chain of command and between instructor and student (so regardless of the teacher/student relationship coming to a conclusion, their ranks would still prevent a relationship between them). Roddenberry himself was a pilot in the Air Force, in fact, he was awarded a couple of medals if I’m not mistaken (don’t know if you knew this but before he came up with Star Trek, he had a one season show based on military life called “The Lieutenant”). So the correlation between the military and the conceptualization of Star Trek is there.

Although never directly stated (although I do believe Janeway referenced in an episode of Voyager, it escapes my mind which one, that a fraternization policy is at the captain’s discretion, at least in the 24th century) its easy to see where the comparison is coming from.

As for the assignment scene… I was actually thrilled to see a self-confident, self-assured Uhura in the 2009 film, but…

For those of us with any military exposure whatsoever, we all cringed during that scene. You simply do not speak to your commanding officer that way. Your answer should always be “Yes sir” no matter how smart or deserving you may be (believe it or not there is written protocol for this, as well). In fact, in real life you don’t deny your orders, period. You can maybe swap with another person, if they are willing, but when you join you agree to follow. The way she approached him was far, far too familiar, which is why more than a small number of us did a double-take (heck, I still double-take during that scene, and I’ve seen the movie a bazillion times).

For the record, I’m not trying to start an argument with you, I’m explaining the mindset of those of us who had a little trouble swallowing that particular aspect of the movie. Cringing during that scene doesn’t mean I hate Uhura, far from it, it simply means that I was raised to view policies within a militaristic organization a certain way and that scene was contradictory to said knowledge thus… uncomfortable.

42. Jack - February 21, 2013

No offence intended, but why would Uhura be dragging her parents a distance in feet and not metres. Trek is 100% metric, baby (except in Trek V, I think Star Trek ’09 got this right). Right now, pretty much everybody but the U.S. uses metric — the whole darned planet. But wouldn’t American readers be able to figure out what a couple of metres is, more or less… (1.5ish)

43. Jack - February 21, 2013

“For those of us with any military exposure whatsoever, we all cringed during that scene. You simply do not speak to your commanding officer that way. Your answer should always be “Yes sir” no matter how smart or deserving you may be (believe it or not there is written protocol for this, as well”

I resist responding to your comments as I fear this will get me told I’m insulting Gene Roddenberry or get me threatened with being reported to the site administrator, but, while Trek had discipline and protocol — I don’t recall it being a “Sir! Yessir” kind of organization. I’m not attempting to challenge your discomfort with the scene, just making an observstiob. And is he her commanding officer in this scene — he’s in charge of doling out assignments, apparently?

44. Jemini - February 21, 2013

38. Spuhura Addict
this?
I know that from experience lol in some course you simply can’t get the highest grade if you haven’t archived high grades in all the previous exams.
so say that the max the students could get in that class was 100 and it could be the total of previous archived grades + the final thesis. If Uhura got a 100 then she knows, mathematically, that she got the highest score in that class as no one will get more than 100 (they could get a 100 too but this still makes her one of the top students)
if that was the highest grade they could get and she got it then it’s not so presumptuous for her to state that simple fact, at all

and anyway.. guys are you really nitpicking about this?

I swear , I bet the writers have so much fun reading us. We’re all kinda absurd …

41. ObsessiveStarTrekFan
agreed.
This is an ad hominem argument between the haters and the writers.

I love how some people here are still making certain assumptions about the story all the while even the last comic essentially contradicted them all and proved the very opposite of what they’re saying.
The writers say that the sky is blue and people here write that it’s red and even whine about the writers not making it blue enough.
and I’m not even surprised ^

45. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

42. Trekkiegal63

That’s what I call being a glutton for punishment :-)

I stayed off all threads for a week after one of them went to hell with name calling and bad language etc, but I couldn’t leave this one alone – more fool me.

I can see where you are coming from. I have no military background – the closest I get is that my father served in WWII, so I don’t automatically think from a military perspective.

I did find this quote fom Bob Orci posted on this web site in the comments section of the article on Orci & Kurtzman at WGA on Jan 23, 2010. It relates to the whole fraternisation issue, rather than the questioning of orders in the assignment scene, but I think it’s still relevent as an indicator of how things might have changed:

“Who is to say that in a futuristic utopia-ish society, workplace romance is a no-no? Perhaps it’s fine and allowed. After all, NASA is already having to deal with the potential sexual health of astronauts as they ponder prolonged space flight. May not be unprofessional at all at Starfleet. That view may simply be a remnant of our puritanical society that Starfleet outgrew.”

Regarding questioning orders – yes, I accept that from today’s military perspective that would be a big no-no. Is it in Starfleet? I don’t really know. While I am aware that Roddenberry had a miltary background, what I remember from TOS, and I am speaking of the series here, not the movies, is that things were far less formal than I associate with a military organisation of today. Yes, there were ranks and orders. However there was no saluting or ‘captain on the bridge’ that I remember. I also do specifically remember both McCoy and Uhura verbally (and publically) lashing Spock for orders he had just given while in acting command of the Enterprise in at least a couple of the episodes. So, I’m going to cite precedent – even if the precedent was in the future in an alternate reality… I can probably look up which episodes I’m thinking of if you want me to.

I do recall watching The Lieutenant. I remember noticing at the time that the actor who played Gary Mitchell in Where no Man Has Gone Before (Gary Lockwood) was the same actor that played 2nd Lieutenant William Tiberius Rice in The Lieutenant (is there some significance to Tiberius that I’m missing? That’s 2 Roddenberry shows with the main character having Tiberius as their middle name… ) …and having just used Wikipedia to refresh my memory on this stuff, I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised how many TOS actors guest starred on The Lieutenant, as they were both Roddenberry shows.

My reaction to Phil’s comment has more to do with his implication Uhura got that high grade in the first place because she was in a sexual relattionship with Spock, when the comic preview we read makes it abundantly clear that this is not the case, rather than any concerns he may have over whether the relationship they then undertook would constitute fraternisation.

46. Jemini - February 21, 2013

30. Jack – February 20, 2013

I liked this. I wish these things weren’t so short.

ITA.
I liked both backstories (McCoy’s and Uhura’s) and I wish the comics weren’t so short…but I have to admit that the one about Uhura surprised me I didn’t expect it to be so good and it’s better than the one about McCoy. Now I’m curious about the others (though, admittedly, theirs were the ones I was the most interested about)
Little Uhura was so cute and that memory was heart breaking. The S/U relationship also is introduced perfectly and it’s believable.

47. Spockchick - February 21, 2013

re discussion about military, fraternisation, etc. there are a few things in the TOS writer’s bible:

‘Q. Is it a completely military arrangement?
A. Semi-military but without being heavily authoritarian. For example we will not be aware of ‘officers’ and ‘enlisted men’ categories. And we will avoid saluting and other medieval leftovers.’

also

‘Marriage, love and general hanky-panky? We’ll assume (and hope) all will still exist.’

and

‘Stay away from petty military politics, it usually comes off as unbelievable in our advanced century.’

Mind you, the first page says Captain Kirk would never, ever put his arms around his pretty Yeoman when faced with certain death, but in ‘Balance of Terror’ he does just that – LoL!
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1×14/balanceofterror187.jpg

48. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#48 Baby:

Making things personal are we?

It isn’t, by far, the only thing I keep talking about. I have posted on other topics. But what I have posted on it seems to have struck a nerve with you…

I peruse threads for the same reason you do, I imagine. I love Star Trek. The reason I was going to avoid posting on this thread was because I knew it would be infiltrated by shippers, which, on multiple occasions have taken their parasocial relationship with a fictional set of characters to such extreme measures that they attack real life people for having a differing opinion. I can point you to numerous examples of this here on this site. I purposely left my post to strictly about the military for that reason, I didn’t want to turn this into a previous discussion and because I have military knowledge, adding the disclaimer that I was explaining a point of view, not necessarily the only point of view, just one perspective. By delving into a personal attack against me instead of addressing the point I was trying to make you just made yourself a sterling example. Congratulations.

But here’s the short answer: I can post what I want, within the guidelines of this forum, of course, and as long as its fairly on topic, i.e. about Trek, when I want, because this is a public access forum. That does not mean you have to agree with me. However, you DO NOT have the right to tell me what I can and can’t post about, regardless of whether it offends you shipper sensibilities or not. You’re lucky I woke in a good mood, otherwise I’d post a diatribe on the unhealthy psychology evident in ‘shipping’ just because you’ve inspired, i.e. egged, it on.

49. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#44 Jack:

I don’t randomly go around reporting posters. I reported that one poster because she was completely out-of-line and bordering on psychotic. I was far from the only one who thought so. I’ve never gotten that impression about you, wrong as you may be on the subject of the allegory and TOS’s influence over modern science fiction (I kid, I kid).

To answer your question, while I did always get that Kirk’s command was more informal, which I always attributed more to his particular command style, protocol was still respected. Here is some tidbits of the “Where No Man Has Gone Before” script, found here: http://www.chakoteya.net/startrek/2.htm

KIRK: No visual contact, Mister Kelso?
KELSO [on monitor]: No, sir. It’s too small to be a vessel. It only reads about one metre in diameter.
SPOCK: Not large enough even for a lifeboat.
KELSO [on monitor] Small enough to bring it aboard, sir, if you want to risk it.
KIRK: Lock onto it, Mister Kelso

SCOTT: Materialiser ready, sir.
KIRK: Bring it aboard. Old-style ship recorder that could be ejected when something threatened the ship.

KIRK: Screen on.
KELSO: Screen on, sir. Approaching galaxy edge, sir.
KIRK: Neutralise warp, Mister Mitchell. Hold this position.
MITCHELL: Neutralise warp, sir.

DEHNER: Autopsy report, sir. Each case showed damage to the body’s neural circuit. An area of the brain was burned out.
KIRK: And you, are you feeling all right?

*shrug* That’s a lot of ‘sirs’ within the first five minutes of the episode, so I do believe an argument can be made either way. And anyway, I was never arguing that strict military policies are precisely the case within Star Trek, merely that those of us with that knowledge perceived it that way, which is why certain scenes that seem to be bordering on insubordination are uncomfortable.

50. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

I also do specifically remember both McCoy and Uhura verbally (and publically) lashing Spock for orders he had just given while in acting command of the Enterprise in at least a couple of the episodes. So, I’m going to cite precedent – even if the precedent was in the future in an alternate reality… I can probably look up which episodes I’m thinking of if you want me to.

LOL, no need, I’m well aware of the scenes you speak of. In fact, there were multiple occasions of McCoy questioning Spock’s orders or at the very least sassing back. “The Man Trap” for one, just off the top of my head. “The Tholian Web” for another. That’s pretty much par for course with the two of them (love the man dearly, but McCoy should have been written up by Spock many, many times, that scene in “Requiem for Methuselah” was completely out-of-line).

However, there are cases of Kirk dressing down officers for informalities, such as the case in “Balance of Terror”, so, an argument can be made either way.

51. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

Just thought of another example of Kirk reminding a subordinate of authority when it comes to following orders and am kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier as it is one of the most enduring episodes ever…

From “Devil in the Dark”:

SPOCK: Gentlemen, if you’ll examine your charts, please. I last located the creature in the area marked adit26 moving in bearing two zero one. This particular group will move out beyond that area in all directions in an effort to surround it, and possibly capture it.
KIRK: Your orders are shoot to kill. Protect yourself at all times. Commander Giotto, disperse your search parties.
GIOTTO: Aye, aye, sir. Louis, Vinci, take your men out.
(The red-shirts leave.)
KIRK: Mister Spock. Capture it? I don’t recall giving any such order.
SPOCK: You did not, sir. I merely thought that if the opportunity arose
KIRK: I will lose no more men. The creature will be killed on sight and that’s the end of it.
SPOCK: Very well, sir.

52. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

Just thought of another example of Kirk reminding a subordinate of authority when it comes to following orders and am kicking myself for not thinking of it earlier as it is one of the most endearing episodes ever…

From “Devil in the Dark”:

SPOCK: Gentlemen, if you’ll examine your charts, please. I last located the creature in the area marked adit26 moving in bearing two zero one. This particular group will move out beyond that area in all directions in an effort to surround it, and possibly capture it.
KIRK: Your orders are shoot to kill. Protect yourself at all times. Commander Giotto, disperse your search parties.
GIOTTO: Aye, aye, sir. Louis, Vinci, take your men out.
(The red-shirts leave.)
KIRK: Mister Spock. Capture it? I don’t recall giving any such order.
SPOCK: You did not, sir. I merely thought that if the opportunity arose
KIRK: I will lose no more men. The creature will be killed on sight and that’s the end of it.
SPOCK: Very well, sir.

53. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

Oops, not sure why that last post got posted twice…

54. Gary, S - February 21, 2013

So, is this Uhura story Canon?

55. Aurore - February 21, 2013

56. Gary, S – February 21, 2013
So, is this Uhura story Canon?
__________

“120. boborci – February 19, 2013
119. When I arrived on the court, I had read that canon meant only what was filmed. to suddenly decree that previous defenitions of canon are not the case would feel to me like congress voting for pay raises for themselves. So as a strict constitutionalist, to me, comics are not canon.

but they sure are close!”

http://trekmovie.com/2013/02/19/trekink-review-of-countdown-to-darkness-2/#comment-4982647

…..So, let us wait for the movie…and find out how…. *close* ( or not )…. to canon this Nyota Uhura story is…..

Is it June yet?

:)

56. Aurore - February 21, 2013

What am I saying?

Gary S, you’ll find out whether this Nyota Uhura story is… close… to canon (or not) long before June!

:)

57. Jack - February 21, 2013

51. “I was never arguing that strict military policies are precisely the case within Star Trek, merely that those of us with that knowledge perceived it that way, which is why certain scenes that seem to be bordering on insubordination are uncomfortable.”

Fair enough. I understood that. Just speaking personally here, but I liked the professionalism of the TOS bridge crew. There were plenty of sirs (and ‘misters’ and the occasional ‘gentlemen’) but no real sense of ‘when I say jump, you say how high” even through life and death situations.’ I think TNG and later shows showed officers who were a lot more stern about such matters.

Hey, I agree that Trek has had a massive, unprecedented influence, and not just on science fiction. I’m a fan. I’m also a fan of Trek stories that explore ideas — while waiting impatiently for these comics to appear online yesterday, I read John Byrne’s four Leonard McCoy, Frontier Doctor comics and McCoy faces moral dilemmas and medical mysteries complicated by technology, cloning, politics, the desire for immortality, military experiments, ecology: all sorts of stuff. They’re short tales and they feel like classic Trek. That said, some are a bit too simplistic (it’s pretty obvious from the get go what’s causing the mysterious deaths in the colony on a planet natively inhabited solely by a giant jungle; where colonists are constantly spraying agent orange-ish exfolliants on swaths of that jungle in order to increase their farmland.), but they’re comics. One of the stories does something interesting: the culprits are fully aware of the consequences of their choices (their people are dying) and don’t care. And more interesting still is seeing how McCoy handles all this — and how his very clear ideas of right and wrong don’t always have any sway. Yep, there are morals to these stories.

58. Baby - February 21, 2013

#57

Movie comes out in may not june and I hear the film is 129 minutes long.

That to me is kind off short.

I wanted It to be at least 2 hours 40 minutes long.

129 minutes is way to small and I am sure this also incudes the end credit which is like 4-7 minutes long.

Looking at how much action is in the film…I doubt any character will have a back story.

I will advice peple to read the star flet academy series.

I prefer it to the comics.

59. Phil - February 21, 2013

@61. I believe Aurore is overseas – later release dates outside of the US.

129 is plenty long – this is Star Trek, not War and Peace. Fan Fiction and novels can fill in backstory when necessary.

60. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#59 Baby:

Interesting that you’re calling me out about not being classy when you’re the one who attacked *me*. I made a post trying to explain why someone might feel that certain scenes were inappropriate from a background/personal life perspective. I added a disclaimer that I wasn’t saying that differing perspectives were wrong, just that there are those of us who approach the movie with different points of reference.

A few points here:

The Spock/Uhura romance, for better or worse, happened in the movie, ergo it comes up, a lot. And when it does, because I like participating in discussion, I’m going to state my perspective. As everyone on this board does.

The reason you don’t like it, and consider it ‘lame’ is because my perspective doesn’t agree with yours. If I were toting the Spock/Uhura romance as the greatest thing ever, no matter how many threads I did it in, you wouldn’t be calling me out, you’d be cheering me on.

Sorry to tell you, my dear, you do not get to claim ownership of this thread because it centers around the romance you have a parasocial relationship with.

The only reason I stated I wasn’t going to reply in this thread was not because I’m not firm in my opinion, I am, but because there have been numerous cases where shippers have proven themselves to be entirely irrational when it comes to criticism centering around their ‘ship’. Case in point, you. But when I saw a poster whom I know to be well versed in Trek called out, I rushed to explain why someone might interpret a scene differently, because frankly, I agree with him.

As a side note, I read every article on this site, so no, I do not go around identifying posts made specifically about Spock/Uhura to reply to. And most of the time I’m not even one to start the discussion but reply to someone else.

I’ve also spoken more than once on the subject of allegory… I suppose I’m obsessed with that, too?

It’s interesting to me that you’re accusing me of jumping on random shippers when in fact it was I who was once called a ‘racist’ by one of you for using the widely used, and non-racist, term “token romance”.

Call it an obsession if you will, stick and stones and all of that, but I will continue to state my opinion when relevent. And I, at least, can do this devolving to personal attacks – there is a difference between a person and their opinion, you do realize? *pointed look complete with judgy eyes*.

If my opinion upsets you, well, that’s not my problem.

61. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#60 Jack:

I read John Byrne’s four Leonard McCoy, Frontier Doctor comics and McCoy faces moral dilemmas and medical mysteries complicated by technology, cloning, politics, the desire for immortality, military experiments, ecology: all sorts of stuff. They’re short tales and they feel like classic Trek.

Jotting this down as I type…. thank you for the reccommendation! I work in the biotech industry (clinical trials) so the subject matter of these four comics sound *exactly* like my cuppa.

I think TNG and later shows showed officers who were a lot more stern about such matters.

Agreed. This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I always thought Picard a little too… stiff. Not so much in following protocol, which I feel is good, there needs to be rules, but in accepting council. I believe that one of the reasons Kirk was so effective as a commanding officer is because he did often seek the council of both Spock and McCoy, weighed their input, then went on to make a judgement call from there (like in “The Immunity Syndrome”, for example). There was a definite difference in their command styles… which might illistrate that some protocols, the ones not hardwired, are left to the captain’s discretion.

62. Spockchick - February 21, 2013

@60. Jack
I read the ‘Frontier Doctor’ series and really enjoyed it. Sure some was a bit simplistic like you said, but I really enjoyed a peek into the doc’s work when he wasn’t on the big E. As a character, McCoy (in my opinion) is the most well developed, he is imperfect in a good way. I’m sorry so many thought his IDW issue was a bit flat. I have been getting the ongoing series in the bound volumes but I did buy the Cupcake and Keenser issues as peripheral characters interest me. I will buy the Uhura one too because I love her, and the artwork looks lovely.

63. Gary S - February 21, 2013

Aurore,
Thanks for giving me something to look forward to!

64. Baby - February 21, 2013

#63 trekkiegal 63

err…ypu opinons does not upset me.

I respect the first amendment of the USA CON.

all I said is that you have beciome infamous on this site.

And for what?

Ranting about a little romance that was like 5 minutes?

Is that not an obesession?

This is a star trek fan site…it is not a ship war couple site.

———————————————————————————–

And in other more important trek news today.

There is a rumor going around that the new film is 129 minutes long also it is possible that Peter Weller’s charcaters might be Carol’s dad.

.

65. Aurore - February 21, 2013

@61. I believe Aurore is overseas – later release dates outside of the US.
_________

Yes, sir!

:))

66. Aurore - February 21, 2013

“Aurore,
Thanks for giving me something to look forward to!”
_______

:)

No, no, no, no,no, no, no, Gary S.
Don’t thank me.

Give credit where credit is due.

We have to thank el señor Orci…..

67. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#67 Baby:

lolololol, so let me get this straight, my responding to an article about a comic where half of the comic centered around the Spock/Uhura relationship is entirely a case of me ‘bringing the relationship up’? I’ll say it again… Their romance, even though I do not like it and find it part of a larger social issue, did happen. Anyone replying in this thread has an opinion on it. Mine just happens to be one that differs from yours. There are a lot of people in this thread who speak of the S/U pairing often, the difference between me and them is they actually like it. I noticed you’re not calling them out for being obsessed with a repeated subject…. hmmm, sure you respect the constitution. I believe you, really. ;)

Just to let you know ahead of time? When I see any subject matter that is a part of Trek that I have an opinion on? I’m going to address it. Whether you agree with that opinion or not.

68. Aurore - February 21, 2013

….Of course, for this upcoming sequel we also have to thank , amongst other people, los señores Abrams, Kurtzman, Burk y…. DamOn…of course….

:)

69. NuWisdom - February 21, 2013

To all the people commenting on the inconsistencies between the Nero incursion into the JJverse and before, you forget the events of Star Trek: Enterprise, most notably the Temporal Cold War effects, likely set into motion other changes to the Timeline that manifested prior to Nero’s incursion that would account for the differences. As well as the Borg Incursion at 2063 (First Contact), the Henry Starling incident from Voyager involving the Timeship Aeon, and who knows how many other Temporal Incursions that might have intersected with this one alternate universe.

Imagine this: Henry Starling captures the Aeon and cannibalizes its tech to create his computer empire in the 90s. This sets into motion a cascade of changes which, in this Timeline results in World War 3/The Eugenics Wars not happening until the 2050s, resulting in First Contact happening in 2063 and Zefram Cochrane being a dnstead of a model scientist, instead of 2061 and him being a model scientist, like was said in TOS. Then The Borg Temporal Vortex in First Contact intersects with this reality and Picard and crew follow back in the Enterprise E. Picard interacts with Lily Sloane, who through what she saw on the Enterprise, influenced the post-First Contact era differently from what she saw. That combined with salvaging a crashed escape pod or three from the Enterprise E that Picard and crew couldn’t recover, influenced tech development to be more advanced and a bit different than before. Flash ahead to Archer’s time, and countless Temporal Cold War incursions created a Temporal Mess that resulted in technology again developing faster and differently than in TOSverse, resulting in different dates, different tech levels and design patterns, and a different turnout, keeping in mind at any time in this process, any number of other Temporal Incursions likely created who knows how many alternate timelines …and we have a series of interlinking temporal paradoxes and moebius loops that would even give Data a headache LOL

Point is, stop worrying about Timeline inconsistencies and just sit back and enjoy NewTrek (I saw NewTrek as opposed to NuTrek meaning not just JJverse Trek, but all New Trek content)

Also: out of all the implausible differences in the Timeline, the Robert April/second NCC-1701 Enterprise mystery, as well as Nero Incident, are the least problematic. What about how Kirk could ascend from cadet to Captain instantly? That, even factoring in his heroic efforts, bypasses all military/paramilitary protocol and common sense and invalidates the entire command structure of Starfleet. Or Pike promoting Kirk from cadet to First Officer? Pike, in any real, or plausible command structure, would have been sanctioned, possibly had a Board of Inquiry into him invoking favoritism as well as bypassing all Starfleet protocol in promoting Kirk that high that quickly when he had as yet done nothing to deserve any favorable treatment, except warn Pike about Nero’s Vulcan trap. And yet he stiffed Uhura. Or how McCoy violated The Hippocratic Oath and The Starfleet Ethical Code of Conduct by issuing Kirk an unnecessary vaccine to then subvert The Academy’s academic suspension grounding of Kirk, as well as Spock’s reassigning his girlfriend Uhura from The Farragut to The Enterprise to be with him, and to score points with said girlfriend, as well as violating the code for the treatment of prisoners by banishing Kirk to a frozen wasteland instead of putting him in the brig…doesn’t matter that all of this was necessary as it tuned out to save Earth and The Federation from Nero, all of them should have been court-martialed. That is what probably would have happened in the Starfleet of the Prime Universe, and a similar thing DID happen in Star Trek IV, when The Federation Council still tried Kirk and crew for the events of Star Trek III even after they saved Earth from The Whale Probe.

70. Red Dead Ryan - February 21, 2013

Honesty, I’m no fan of the Spock/Uhura romance. I just don’t think it works for the character of Spock. I think it was done just because it was felt the only way to bring in women to see the movie was to create a romance between a female favorite character (Spock) and a female character who, on TOS was very quiet, and more of a background character. They wanted to give Uhura a more prominent role, which is fine, but again, the romance wasn’t necessarily needed.

Spock, at least the Prime Universe version, was always popular because he was “hard to get” in the sense that he rejected relationships with women, preferring to maintain his alien, “outsider” stoicness.

I understand that Spock is half-human, and that Spock Prime told NuSpock to do “what feels right”, but I happen to disagree with the new behaviour.

I mean, we already have six other fully-human characters. Why make Spock fully human? The TOS triad worked brilliantly because of Spock’s cold, almost emotion-less logic against McCoy’s sometimes illogical passion and fervor. With Kirk being the balance of the two rivals.

That’s the part we missed during the last movie. The three characters didn’t spend much time together at all. Karl Urban really knocked it out of the ballpark as Dr. McCoy, and I’d really like to see more of him this time.

Yeah, I know, this isn’t “your father’s Star Trek”, but still, I think the romantic subplot wasn’t needed.

And before anyone says the Kirk-Spock-McCoy triad has been overstated, I recently watched the third season of TOS. McCoy spent a lot of time with Kirk and Spock, going on landing parties with them and the other crew members. Not to mention “The Tholian Web”, where it was demonstrated how important Kirk was to the trio, and how different Spock and McCoy are to each other, as well as how different they act when Kirk isn’t there. There’s a depth and complexity to that relationship that really strikes a chord with so many of us.

Anyway, I think we’re stuck with a more human Spock, and his romance with Uhura. That’s the one major gripe I have with the first movie, which, otherwise, was highly-enjoyable and well-done.

71. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#73 Red Dead Ryan:

Very well said, my good sir. I couldn’t agree more!

72. Spockchick - February 21, 2013

@73. Red Dead Ryan
I think the people in the film are changed. The diversion in the time-line has caused them to be different personalities. We are, after all, shaped by our life experiences. I like the romance, it was new and refreshing. I can also empathise with those who think it is against the grain. I am a die-hard TOS gal, but I also like a bit of escapism. RL for me is hard enough :-) ST is an escape.

73. Phil - February 21, 2013

It’s probably a smaller gripe for me – I’m not opposed to the romance, but it was set up poorly, and in a fashion that cheapens the Uhura character.. First, the last movie does set up that they were doing the wild thing when she was a student. Second, when she does end up at the right place at the right time, she seems to have no issues abandoning her post when she thinks Spock needs a bit o’ lovin. And how about that, when her boyfriend becomes the XO, guess who gets to come along? So, to cement her credentials in the next movie, she gets to go on away missions and kick a little @$$. With the screen time she had, Nichelle Nichols managed to create a character that implied some depth. Zoe Saldana seems a bit more interested in reconfiguring her into Laura Croft, which is a shame, really. Not sure that those are the qualities MLK commended Nichelle for….

74. Phil - February 21, 2013

@74. Not sure why Baby seems to be stalking you, but it’s getting a bit creepy….

75. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#78 Phil:

I know, right? It is definitely bordering on creepy.

76. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

@76 Baby

You say it like obsession is a bad thing…

Seriously ‘though – we all have different perspectives on things, but surely we are here reading and sometimes contributing to these forums because we have an abiding interest in Star Trek in all its forms. I can assure you, as far as the general populous is concerned, we are ALL obsessed.

Our level of obsession, and our obsessive triggers, differ from person to person. That is OK. That is part of IDIC.

From my perspective, these forums become much less enjoyable when discussions degenerate from an exchange of ideas into an attack on contributors. If someone disagrees with someone else, respectfully explain why. If they still disagree after discussion then just let it go – IDIC after all. There is nothing to be gained by continuing to push each other’s buttons, except to make people like me (who enjoy reading and sometimes contributing to discussion, but are uncomfortable with conflict) wonder whether we should be here at all.

77. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#76 Baby:

Still throwing around insults, I see. Making it personal. Lovely. You truly are a peach, really. Such a fine, upstanding member of this community.

I have also replied to other things, you didn’t do your research too well. In fact, I DID reply to Countdown #2, making a comment about being glad that Mudd is a female because its nice to see more female characters in Trek. So the point stands, why aren’t you calling out the others? Me thinks the lady doth protests too much. But enough of that…

I’m done replying to you. Not worth my time. Your behavior is bordering on obsurd and ridiculous.

78. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

*absurd

79. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

@85 Baby

Umm – she did in fact comment on Countdown to Darkness #2. Here is the post:

131. Trekkiegal63 – February 19, 2013
Note to self: be careful what you wish for…

While I’m definitely happy to see new female characters added to the Trek storyline, as in very happy, to have that female be the coniest of all con artists, though… Ah, screw it. Hooray to female Mudd!

Downloading this pronto.

80. Phil - February 21, 2013

@82. The point is that they are attempting to turn her into an action heroine. Bottom line – it is what it is. Hopefully in the next installment Spock has to order her into harms way, and if she understands duty she goes. At that point I’ll retract my comment.

Cheers….

81. Rebecca74 - February 21, 2013

# 77 Didn’t Spock abandon his post when he went to the Katric Arc to get his parents? He’s the commanding officer and he basically jump ship to rescue his folks. How’s that “acceptable”?

Further, Lt. Uhura has just as much right and skill to go on an away mission as any other crew member on the Enterprise. She has specialized skills and is trained, just as every other crew member. Her relationship with Spock has zero bearing on if and when she participates in away missions.

I love Nichelle Nichols and her Lt. Uhura. I love it, but I don’t sit here and wax nostalgic about the sh!t she had to deal with. The writers gave her peanuts, OK? Oh, and you talk about Zoe being all “Lara Croft”? I’m EXCITED that she’s doing much more in this movie, and more than Nichelle did in TOS, and about damn time. I mean, some complain Zoe didn’t do enough and now she’s potentially doing more in the new movie and there are STILL complaints?!?!

As far as what Dr. King commended Nichelle on: It was about the fact that she wasn’t playing a maid on TV, and what her being a black communication officer in the future meant (and would mean) for generations of women, but specifically black people as a whole. There were very few positive minority role models on TV at the time. She sacrificed a lot to remain on that show.

Also, I guess you’ve forgotten about the demeaning feather dance Nichelle had to perform to distract the guards in Star Trek V. I take Zoe’s performance over that mess any day.

82. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#87 Baby:

LOL, oh boy have I caught you in a lie. I commented on Countdown #2, two days ago, on February 19. Comment #131.

It is very clear that you’re the one obsessed. With me. Really, you’re bordering on Janice Lester levels of creepy here. From your behavior I’m begining to think that you would be a prime candidate for the Tantalus colony from “Dagger of the Mind”.

83. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 21, 2013

Baby – you have no idea what you are talking about. trekkiegal is not obsessed with the S/U romance. She has an opinion about it. Who doesn’t?

I don’t know who you are think you are going for here, but I really think you have the wrong person.

84. Phil - February 21, 2013

@89. Overall, I understand that these are stories that filmmakers tell, and on occasion they get it wrong – the featherdance is a good example.

My understanding is that the Vulcan elders were in the cave, I would have expected Spock to attempt to retrieve them regardless of if his parents had been among them. Whether or not Spock should have led the away mission or delegated it is open for debate. The writers needed a tool to get Spock emotionally compromised later in the story, so killing his mother was the direction they took.

Yeah, my preference would have been for nu-Uhura to be a smart, successful and driven professional. Then the relationship enhances her character instead of hamstringing it. It’s a preference and an opinion, and not one I expect others to share. Regardless, it didn’t detract from my enjoyment of the previous offering.

Ms. Nichols made the best of the material she was given, in an era where things she did on screen could have gotten her killed in some parts of the country. She is to be commended for that.

Kindly…

85. Amorican - February 21, 2013

All I know is, nu-Uhura wouldn’t stand by while the boys fly off to Genesis to rescue Spock.

After locking that boy in the closet, she’s getting on the transporter pad with her buddies.

86. Phil - February 21, 2013

@90. Maybe it’s time to change the subject. How about them Dodgers?

87. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

@89. Rebecca74

I think the situation with Spock and the Katric Arc is more straight forward to explain than some of the other things that various characters did in the movie.

Firstly, he did hand over command before he left.

Secondly, he was rescuing the Vulcan Elders who were the keepers of Vulcan’s heritage and culture (and according to Memory Alpha, Bob Orci has confirmed that they were also retrieving Surak’s Katra). The fact that his parents would be there would have been a personal benefit but not a motivation for his actions.

Finally, in the time allowed (minutes), he was the only person on Enterprise with the knowledge of where to go to retrieve them, and the authority to persuade them to evacuate.

TOS Uhura did go on away missions. She was under-utilised in TOS, but that was over 40 years ago and things were different then… I’m also excited that it appears Uhura will be more ‘active’ in STID.

Heavens – the fan dance… Star Trek V was my least favourite movie for all sorts of reasons (Nemesis came a very close second). Logically ‘though, in an extreme situation you have to utilise all the resources at your disposal to obtain your objective.

88. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#92 Baby:

Why are you not commenting there alot?

Priceless. You truly are a gem. I comment on this thread alot because you keep attacking me and have done so from my very first post to this thread!

#93 Rose and #86 ObsessiveStarTrekFan – thank you. I appreciate it.

#96 Phil – more of a Padres fan, myself. Don’t laugh. They just haven’t been at their best *coughforthepastfewyearscough*. ;)

89. Rebecca - February 21, 2013

#94 Zoe’s Uhura WAS smart, successful, and driven professional. Are you saying she’s less than that because she’s in a relationship with Spock? Is that what it all boils down to: no matter what your accomplishments are as a woman, it’s *always* defined by the dude you’re sleeping with? Wow, OK.

Nichelle is commended and acknowledge for what she represented and still represents to women and black people. But, that doesn’t mean we have to accept what she was given. I applaud her for putting up with it, because she led the way so people like Zoe wouldn’t have to.

What I don’t appreciate is the idea that a smart, successful, & driven professional black woman reduced to a nun (because god forbid you show her as being desired and/or desiring a relationship in the 60s) is preferable to a black woman who is a smart, successful, & driven professional who happens to be in love with an alien. Guess what, black women have relationships and it’s OK. We’re not all nuns. That’s the future, not some 1960s Jim Crow-influenced representation of the future.

90. Phil - February 21, 2013

@98. Good luck with that. Between Fox and Frank McCourt not much has happened….in a couple of decades.

91. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#99 Baby:

You’re “Star Wars Prequels fan” from that other thread. The horrible spelling and grammar should have clued me in right away. But it was the mention of Batman and then Twilight that truly cinched it.

Wow. Talk about obsessed. Done replying to you, done. But I part with the same advice I gave you last time… GET HELP! Seriously. You’ve got issues.

92. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 21, 2013

Baby – why are so angry?

If you would care to read the ongoing discussion on another thread here, you will see that trekkiegal’s so-called “obsession” has more to do with the prevalence of romance, quite schlocky romance at times, that can be seen in most, if not all, movies and the possible deleterious effects showing these kinds of relationships can have on impressionable minds, especially young girls.

She has a right to feel concerned as she is the mother of a young daughter. I am also a mother of a 10 year old daughter. Whether her concern is warranted or whether the unhealthy excesses that we have been speaking about on the other thread is to do with the movie industry per se, well, I don’t know…these are complex issues.

trekkiegal can come to this thread and comment. She has not been attacking anyone. She debates ideas and social trends that concern her, as do I. She also gives her opinions on Star Trek, comics and its various characters – but…. then again, this is a site devoted to Star Trek!

Now stop attacking her.

93. Phil - February 21, 2013

@100. Holster the weapons, there, it looks like you are trying to defend against a charge I didn’t make. My issue isn’t the relationship, just that fraternization cheapens in. It would have cheapened it if Uhura had been the instructor, and Spock the student. This transends gender, if someone appears to have gained promotion through a means other then appropiate evaluation, it creates an appearance of favoritism. It popped up more then once in the movie – when Pike headed off to Narada, Spock, his XO, assumed command, and Pike made Kirk his second. Spock questioned it, and rightfully so, because it appeared improper.

My perspective, is that the relationsip would have been better served had it grown from mutual understanding and respect, and not a student/teacher relationship. The writers saw differently, and it is what it is – it’s nothing to get upset about.

94. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

@104. Baby
Just commenting on your last statement – the stuff about SCANDAL has gone right over my head – I’ve never even heard of the show.

“If anything it is Spock and not Uhura that should be called out….he is obviously not stable. He had an emotional meltdown on the bridge and nearly killed a person”

…and you think you’d have held up any better if your mother had just died in front of your eyes, 6 billion Vulcans you were telepathically linked to had just been exterminated, you were responsible for making critical decisions in the middle of a crisis of more than global proportions, and you’d been deliberately goaded beyond endurance by someone who knew instinctively how to push your buttons? Everyone has a breaking point; we just pray we never reach it.

95. Phil - February 21, 2013

@106. It may be fortunate for you that this site isn’t moderated full time anymore. Posting under multiple nom de plumes is a insta-ban offense, and others were shown the door for constantly making personal attacks.

Give it a rest – cutting and pasting your reply over and over is not the most civil thing to be doing…

96. Rebecca74 - February 21, 2013

#105 – But what fraternization? She was no longer his student. He was no longer her instructor.

She logically explained why the “appearance of favoritism” should not have mattered since she had earned her place on Enterprise. She further proved herself in the fact that she actually spoke all 3 Romulan dialects AND could differentiate between Vulcan and Romulan, which is why she got promoted to the bridge. Her promotion had absolutely NOTHING to do with her relationship with Spock and EVERYTHING to do with her demonstrated skill set.

As such, Kirk was promoted for the same reason as Lt. Uhura: they both provided intel which saved the ship. The reason Spock questioned Kirk’s promotion was because he was on academic suspension for cheating, not for some perceived “favoritism” on Capt. Pike’s part. Spock obviously doesn’t trust Kirk because of his previous actions. He wouldn’t question Lt. Uhura’s promotion because “she is unmatched in xenolinguistics”, as proven by the fact that the previous communications officer couldn’t even differentiate between Romulan and Vulcan.

Also, “favoritism” is subjective and usually thrown around by people who aren’t up to the task, usually without any proof.

97. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 21, 2013

Baby – “token” was not used as a racist slur. Lose the racist card.

Stop trolling.

98. Rebecca74 - February 21, 2013

#111

Just because it “was not used as a racist slur” doesn’t mean it is not perceived as racist.

Are you saying that JJ Abrams only beefed up the Lt. Uhura role because she was black? Would you say the same thing about John Cho’s Lt. Sulu? Why not go further and say Gene Roddenberry only included Lt. Uhura and Lt. Sulu as a “token gesture” toward fair representation of minorities? I’m pretty sure no one that mattered (ie white viewers) was asking for more representation when he and Nichelle created the role. So it had to be a token effort on his part, as well.

Why does “token” only apply to JJ Abrams’ movie?

99. Phil - February 21, 2013

@110. Well, at that point he was her superior officer. Of course, if he’d stuck to his guns and put her on the Farragut, she’d have been floating in space with R2D2. Lets play devil’s advocate for a minute. If one of Spocks other top students, with comperable skills, had approached him about their ship assignment do you suppose Spock would have accomodated them on Enterprise as well?

Kirk’s promotion was even shakier – as you pointed out, he’s suspended, and probably on the verge of being expelled. He fails to convince Spock that his course of action is proper, and trys to take a weapon from security during the scuffle. What, exactly would he have done if Spock didn’t deliver the neck pinch, commanded the Enterprise at phaserpoint? Uhura collected the intel on the Klingons, and Kirk spends a good amount of time geting beat up. I could go on, but it’s been suggested on these boards that Kirk got the nod because oldSpock told Starfleet to do it.

Bottom line is the writers needed to get everyone into their respective positions, and they did it reasonably well. I’d hope the next installment is handled in a similar fashion, and this group of performers will make the most of what they have been given.

100. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 21, 2013

@113. Phil

“Bottom line is the writers needed to get everyone into their respective positions, and they did it reasonably well. I’d hope the next installment is handled in a similar fashion, and this group of performers will make the most of what they have been given.”

Here! Hear! I am really looking forward to May 2013, and hoping STID lives up to its promises.

101. Rebecca74 - February 21, 2013

#113 Only if he put that other top student on another ship because of the supposed “appearance of favoritism” and not for their actual academic record. Spock was in the wrong, plain and simple, which is why he put her where she should have been in the first place.

I don’t think he got the nod because of TOS!Spock’s influence. How could he have any influence? People actually believe that??

Starfleet is like any other entity: they need good press to justify their existence. Considering it couldn’t protect one of it’s founding member planets from some rogue Romulans, what better way to 1) get more recruits and 2) instill a sense of safety and security than fast tracking the promotion of the person that spared Earth from Vulcan’s fate? It’s great PR, which I’m sure still exists in the 23rd century.

But you are right, the writers had to get them there some kind of way. I guess it would have been less dramatic otherwise. :)

102. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#112 Rebecca:

Oh for the love of Pete…

There is back story here. The person you are defending is a troll. A psychotic one to boot. A rabid shipper to such an obsessive degree that she has taken to stalking me because she doesn’t like that anyone has the audacity to have an opinion that differs from her own. Her behavior has been rapidly deteriorating. I’m not joking, or exaggerating when I say I”m genuinely concerned for her mental state. No one should defend a fictional relationship to the extreme she has been doing it, to the point where she can’t monitor her own behavior, she is creating different user names, she dishes out personal insults that have nothing to do with arguments listed objectively (as in ‘not personal’) like they were candy.

The word ‘token’ was used as a one part of a two word term “Token Romance”. It is a trope. There is a page on it at tvtropes.org. That is the context with which it was used. Not to describe Uhura individually, but to describe romances, in general, that have no bearing on the plot of a film. I made the statement that the Spock/Uhura romance is listed as a Token Romance on tvtropes.org, a designation I completely agree with, and “Baby”, otherwise known as “Star Wars Prequels fan” took it entirely out of context. As insane people tend to do.

Seriously, if I had a bunny for a pet I’d worry she’d be lurking outside my house ready to boil it, that is how scary she is getting. Just giving you a friendly warning…

103. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#103 Rose (as in Keachick):

Thank you, again. I really do appreciate it.

You know that discussion we had earlier about parasocial relationships taken to obsessive degrees? … I fear we’re seeing this concept play out right before our eyes.

104. Red Dead Ryan - February 21, 2013

Most posters here choose names that they find cool, whether its a pun, play on words, or a name based on a favorite character or ship.

In the case of Baby, it is especially fitting as he/she is acting as just that…..a BABY!

And I bet Baby needs a diaper change, it’s getting stinky in here….

105. Rebecca74 - February 21, 2013

#116 – Aren’t some of the anti-S/U folks “rabid shippers” as well? I think there are enough overly invested folks to go around. :)

Oh, I see: it was an attempt to invalidate someone else’s opinion of the S/U pairing by utilizing a user-modified website to prove how valid your opinion is with regards to the Spock-Uhura pairing in Star Trek 2009.

So no racism intended at all.

106. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#119 Rebecca74:

Not a shipper, sorry. Unless you count (friend)ships. I’m all for that in Trek.

As for tvtropes.org:

… because no one ever uses outside references to support an editorial ever. You’re so right, I’m deeply ashamed I used another website to back up my thoughts. The humanity! And to think, all those papers in college I wrote that used footnotes. Well, I guess I shouldn’t have done it (even if the assignment called for it) because according to you using outside references is an act worthy of creepy stalking, personal attacks, and being called a racist.

Good lord.

And I guess it being a user related site makes it somehow unworthy of notice? Never mind that the users who contribute could be absolutely brilliant people with various degrees in sociology… do you know for a fact that they’re not? Rather dismissive, don’t you think?

And apparently no one is allowed to have a contradictory opinion to that of a S/U shipper? That’s not at all narcissistic. No, really. ;)

Little heads-up for you, dear.

I am completely entitled to my opinion, just as you are yours. And I will state it as many times as I deem necessary. You don’t have to like it. But you do not get to engage in the use of red herrings, i.e. pulling a racist card, to get your way. I will not be muffled by shipper-related bullying, so you and Baby are wasting your time.

You have a good evening, now.

107. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

#118 Red Dead Ryan:

Once again, I agree entirely.

108. Trekkiegal63 - February 21, 2013

… btw, Rebecca74, when I was doing research for a recent editorial I wrote I encountered the work of numerous professionals, with yes, degrees behind their name, who referenced tvtropes.org in their work. I can provide links if you want…

Oh wait, I forgot, you’re opposed to links. Well, the offer stands regardless.

109. Jemini - February 22, 2013

103. Rose (as in Keachick)
“trekkiegal can come to this thread and comment. She has not been attacking anyone.”

I hate to do it because I don’t even agree with the one attacking her but I beg to differ here.
the last time I recently read a discussion about one of the comics I well remember her personally attacking the shippers and even mocking people that don’t even post here (because, talk about stalkerish behavior, apparently she even has a problem with people having a personal blog where they talk about the shippers.. which btw it is something [ranting in your own blog] that some people here should do as well as it surely makes more sense to me than someone who keeps posting personal rants over a general star trek site monopolizing every discussion to the point that people give up about commenting the actual topic. )

I’m in no way justifying Baby but you don’t need to call people names to be insulting and attack them IMO
so while I don’t agree with the tone used, I think that if someone had called other fans obsessive or insane(or other similar niceties hidden in passive aggressive comments whose message is pretty obvious even without direct -honest – insults) just because they like a romance and yet the same person spends a consistent amount of time and energy in a site like this one using every pretext to start the same – often off topic – discussions with other people over and over.. then I can’t blame whoever calls that person on their shit . Sorry.

Frankly, both parts are being annoying here.

110. Jemini - February 22, 2013

now back to the actual topic I wanted to comment:

89. Rebecca74
“# 77 Didn’t Spock abandon his post when he went to the Katric Arc to get his parents? He’s the commanding officer and he basically jump ship to rescue his folks. How’s that “acceptable”?”

not to mention how in the turbolift scene itself he had just abandoned his post (that in the moment was the captain’s chair) too.

“Further, Lt. Uhura has just as much right and skill to go on an away mission as any other crew member on the Enterprise. She has specialized skills and is trained, just as every other crew member. Her relationship with Spock has zero bearing on if and when she participates in away missions. ”

I do wonder why no one complains about the Kirk/McCoy scene in the nine minutes preview and in one of the comics and no one says that he’s just taking his best friend with him even though Bones is a doctor and is supposed to stay in sickbay.
But really how many times Bones left sickbay? In the movie he spent more time on the bridge than in sickbay (what I’m talking about? he was like that even in TOS)

point being here: quit nitpicking about Uhura abandoning her post when everyone did that – and worse (as they had acted even more unprofessional and yet even became the captain of the ship) – at some point.

Nichelle Nichols approved Saldana’s Uhura 100% and she also approved the romance and even said that it essentially was about time someone made it canon because even Roddenberry had wanted to do that but you could never get the romance in the 60s.. so..
that’s her opinion and the opinion of someone who had played Uhura herself and knows very well how limited her character development was for a number of reason (including the racism)
go tell her that her character was more respected by the writers and the production…

“Also, I guess you’ve forgotten about the demeaning feather dance Nichelle had to perform to distract the guards in Star Trek V. I take Zoe’s performance over that mess any day.”

or her getting mentally conditioned by Sybok so that she could – totally out of the random – show romantic feelings for someone that wouldn’t even reciprocate. Not only it was useful for the plot but also very acceptable and quality character development.
The irony in Shatner, of all the people, criticizing Abrams now and talking about good writing is priceless.
yeah Billy your movie surely was top quality writing and the best of the whole franchise. That’s not the one that even Roddenberry himself essentially decanonized.

111. MSN1701 - February 22, 2013

Sounds interesting! I would like to know why Spock deemed it acceptable for them to date while they were teacher and student. I am pretty sure that breaks a ton of regulations… That seems risky to me for a Vulcan.

112. Trekkiegal63 - February 22, 2013

#126 Baby:

You are the one obsessed. You have made over dozen comments on this thread alone. All of them attacking me. You don’t talk about Trek at all, and when you do you are prodded into it. It’s like your main point of coming here is to attack me. Why did you create two user names?

I never said I was black. I said I was a minority and I do believe I also mentioned which minority, which is Hispanic. Which is the truth, but frankly, I do not care if you believe me or not. At least point I don’t care if you believe yourself to be the Easter Bunny. Your obsession has gone way, way too far. You’re making me seriously uncomfortable. And I don’t mean in a minor irritating way. I mean in ‘holy moses, this person is ridiculously creepy’ way.

For what it’s worth, I’m reporting you again. I hate that I have to delve to that, but you have left me very little choice. Your attacks are now of a very personal nature, and this behavior is erratic, extremely so. If you believe I’m one to lay down and tolerate it. Or that your going to prevent me from stating my opinion, you’re wrong. I will never. So give it up.

You seriously need to read the terms and conditions of this site because you’re breaking about all of the rules and guidelines.

113. Trekkiegal63 - February 22, 2013

#124 Jemini:

There is a difference between having a opinion on a behavior and attacking people. Yes, I believe that ‘shipping’ is a detrimental practice. There is a term for it. Parasocial relationships, which means a one-sided attachment to a celebrity, or fictitious character (or, in this case, a fictitious pairing). I can point you to a ton of research that delves into this. I can also point you to an article about an online shipwar that got so ugly it actually made the San Fransisco Chronicle. My statement about blogs wasn’t made as a blanket statement about blogging in general, I specifically said ‘blogs that read like alters’, which, if you’ve read what I’ve read, is considered a symptom.

So yes, I have an opinion on shipping. Which *is* a behavioral trait that psychologists have been writing about since the dawn of television. I’m hardly the first to address it, I wont be the last. I also have an opinion on other behaviors… because people do that! They read things to increase their knowledge and they form opinions about it. I’ve mentioned eating disorders once in a post too, but I notice you’re not calling me out for ‘hating’ on people with eating disorders. Which would be ridiculous anyway because a behavior is not a person.

If you took it as an insult, well, I’m truly sorry, but that doesn’t change my belief on parasocial relationships, and it doesn’t change my belief that use of tropes like the “Token Romance” and the “Smurfette Principle” is feeding into this behavior. Look at Baby’s posts… can you honestly tell me this is not erratic behavior? I mean, seriously?

114. Ctrl-Opt-Del - February 22, 2013

@gingerly – Hate to break it to ya, pal, but Uhura ain’t real… No need to be quite so Internet White Knight about it…

Or, to quote the Shat: “For crying out loud, it’s just a TV show!”

115. Phil - February 22, 2013

@129. Seriously, stop responding to the guy.

116. Trekkiegal63 - February 22, 2013

#132 Baby:

I keep responding to you because you keep attacking. You attacked me first. You started this. I am merely trying to defend myself. I should not have bothered because you are obsessed. I counted your posts attacking me in order to include it in my email to the webmaster. Before this last one there was thirteen. Thirteen posts attacking a single person. If that is not obsession, then I’m William Shatner.

Now it is fourteen.

Numerous people now have asked you to stop. Have told you that your behavior here is unacceptable. Even your fellow shippers have asked you stop. But you don’t. Also a sign on obsession.

Also, numerous people now have now posted comments disagreeing with the Spock/Uhura romance, yet I’m the only one you’ve latched onto. Again. Obsession.

And I have to ask, what is your motivation behind all of this? Why are you so invested in tearing me down? You talk about patterns in my behavior, which I’ll get to in a moment, but what of your own? You refuse to give up, you refuse to back down, even though more than a handful of people have told you that your behavior here is unacceptable. You’re not convincing anyone. In fact, all you’ve managed to do is irritate everyone. Everyone is regarding your posts as that of a deranged lunatic, which is fitting because that is totally how you are coming across.

To make myself clear. I will never stop posting my opinion. You are not intimidating me, nor scaring me away. You never will. I do not give in to bullying.

I could care less whether you believe my heritage or whether you believe that my father was a career naval officer, which he was. The opinion of someone who attacks and belittles, far after everyone has asked her to cease, is of little importance.

As for my beliefs? I do it to point things out. I believe that parasocial relationships are actually festered by the studios, which is why all films, regardless of genre, include a token romance. I bring it up to discuss it, and possibly shed light, which is what people do on a forum geared towards a movie going population. I follow a webseries of a lady who has a masters degree in political and social thinking who discusses the tropes I brought up in detail because she believes these tropes are inherently sexist and so do I… I suppose she’s obsessed, too?

But, no matter. You’ll probably reply to this using the same boring insults. So lets just cut to the chase, shall we? If what you’re trying to accomplish is getting me to stop posting… wont happen. Ever. So respond if you will. Wont make a bit of difference.

117. Red Dead Ryan - February 22, 2013

Sheesh, you folks are still going on about this?

The horse is dead. Its been beaten to the point that it no longer resembles a horse.

Time to move on!

118. Jovius the Romulan - February 22, 2013

Trekkiegal63: You know I like you, but respectfully… it’s time to back down on this. You’re not being bullied out of posting if you merely stop responding to one person in particular. Therefore, you’re not showing any weakness and don’t need to prove anything to them. Obviously they will not see reason.

Recently, I had to do this with a couple of people who I once called friends because they simply would not see their own fault in something untoward that happened. They simply would not back down, no matter what evidence I brought up that they equally contributed to the blowup. I knew, based on their past behaviour and warning signs that I failed to consider, that there would not be any resolution to this and that it was best to just back away for good.

So, for the sake of this site, let’s get back to discussing Star Trek itself in a civil manner.

119. Trekkiegal63 - February 22, 2013

#136 Jovius the Romulan:

I know It might not look this way, but I agree. This is why I haven’t responded to her last post. I recognize that I should have stopped responding to her a long time ago. Its awful that this thread has gotten so drastically uncomfortable, and I have guilt for my part in it.

The good news is that I’m pretty familiar now with her particular style of diction, so I will go out of my way to avoid responding to her in the future.

I apologize to the innocent bystanders who have been caught up in all of this ugliness.

120. PEB - February 22, 2013

New preview footage of the Trek game from GTTV episode last night. Alot of new footage of character animations, and seeing other members of the crew onboard the Enterprise. As well as new footage of the Gorn in action. Check it out! http://www.gametrailers.com/full-episodes/ymgp4z/gt-tv-star-trek

121. PEB - February 22, 2013

coverage starts at the 02:11 mark.

122. Phil - February 22, 2013

Looks like Baby was shown the door….

123. Baby - February 22, 2013

YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN…..Now I am sleepy

I have been put too sleep by silly little teen girls.

Potential insane people are not worth my time.

Let’s get back to talking about star trek

It is ridiculous to waste time on people that tell the world that they could go insane over a petty fictional romance that lasted for 5 minutes in a 2 hour film.

124. Phil - February 22, 2013

Okay, lets discuss advanced falsework and integrated space elevator operations in Federation shipyards…..

125. Tamarian - February 22, 2013

120. PEB

Thank you for this. It is good to see some different action sequences as well as what the other characters look like in the game. I”m not a big game player– but I may have to consider this one.

126. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 22, 2013

We are not silly little teen girls and even if some of us were, what of it?

The two people who have been objecting to how you have behaved on this particular thread are hardly teenagers, although we have the wondrous, yet frightening, anticipation of seeing our own little girls grow into teenagers in the near future. I fully expect my 10 year old daughter to start menstruating within the next year, along with everything that could come from that…I don’t feel at all *ready*, but I’m told that most mothers are not ready ever…

As a matter of fact, I don’t agree with trekkiegal’s perspective of the Spock/Uhura relationship and its place and relevance to Star Trek. I think that S/U romance is OK in Star Trek and does have a place in this movie series. However she has made some interesting, and worrisome observations (via links at times) re romance in movies in general, which has given me something else to think on. I thank her for that, not only as a movie/television watcher, but also as a mother.

Now run along now, Baby.

127. Gary S - February 22, 2013

124 sounds like the plot of the third film.
Ruthless Elevator Saboteurs!

128. Gary S - February 22, 2013

Or we could just explore The Elevator Operations Of Federation Shipyards.
After all if TMP can show 18 minutes of The Enterprise leaving Spacedock, I am sure we can really do something with those Elevators!

129. gingerly - February 22, 2013

@41

“For those of us with any military exposure whatsoever, we all cringed during that scene. You simply do not speak to your commanding officer that way. Your answer should always be “Yes sir” no matter how smart or deserving you may be (believe it or not there is written protocol for this, as well). ”

I too am a military brat and I didn’t cringe during that scene, because I realize, that though Starfleet has plenty of military parallels, it is still a “peacekeeping armada”…set in the future, with all kinds of changes therein.

This is the same movie where Kirk did worse, and on the bridge! and got a captaincy out of it, but people complain most when Uhura does far less.

I wonder why?

130. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 22, 2013

Yeah, how is that stuff supposed to work? I’m not really into the nuts & bolts of the ‘technology’ of Star Trek, although I do have a copy of the Star Trek: U.S.S. Enterprise Haynes Manual floating around somewhere. Is there anything around suggesting getting a craft that size into orbit would be done with elevators, or tugs, or under its own power, or some combination thereof?

As for TMP: it suffers a quite a bit from being too ponderous in my opinion. However, this only means I didn’t really get the urge to rewatch it more than a handful of times. However, when it came out the first time (bearing in mind that Star Trek had been off the air for quite a while, and I didn’t have access to VHS nor syndication in my neck of the woods at the time) I sat in the theatre with my mouth hanging open in awe for the whole movie. They could have had the whole movie with just visuals of the Enterprise in spacedock, and I’d still have sat there in absolute awe at what I was seeing.

131. Trekkiegal63 - February 22, 2013

#129 Gingerly:

I too am a military brat and I didn’t cringe during that scene, because I realize, that though Starfleet has plenty of military parallels, it is still a “peacekeeping armada”…set in the future, with all kinds of changes therein.

LOL, well, good for you? Not exactly sure what you expect me to say to that. I can’t change the perceptions I carried with me to a film I saw for the first time four years ago, nor do I expect everyone to have the same reactions to a scene that I did (I did include a disclaimer in my original post that I was explaining one mindset, not the only mindset by far). I cringed a little during that scene, you didn’t, potato, po-tah-to *shrug*.

And I can’t account for anyone else, since I’m only one person, but the only reason I addressed that scene in particular was because it had been previously brought up. ;)

I don’t actually disagree with you on the fact that Kirk deserved a reprimand, too. I mean, I love Jim dearly, he’s one of my favorite characters, but this young Kirk’s default setting of ‘you disagree with me I physically attack you’ needs to be curbed a bit. Youth! It is my hope that this comes to him with experience, and by the end of this next film maybe he’ll have mastered the art of ‘know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em’ balance that TOS Kirk possessed.

In all actuality, by the end of the ST2009 movie there were plenty of reprimands to go around. In fact, the only two characters who probably didn’t deserve one would be Sulu and Chekov. Though I suppose McCoy had a ‘get out of jail free card’ with that medical clause of his… still, before Pike ventured over to the Narada, he did indicate he intended to speak to McCoy about sneaking Jim on the Enterprise, so who knows.

132. Trekkiegal63 - February 22, 2013

#128 Gary S:

After all if TMP can show 18 minutes of The Enterprise leaving Spacedock, I am sure we can really do something with those Elevators!

Oh lord, that scene. Back in the day of VHS that used to be my ‘go to the kitchen, pour myself a cola, maybe pop some popcorn, peek in – yup, still Enterprise – perhaps I’ll make a quick call, too’ scene.

133. Trekkiegal63 - February 22, 2013

#126 Rose (as in Keachick):

Rose, if we ever meet in person, I’m buying you lunch. :)

134. Trekkiegal63 - February 22, 2013

#130 ObsessiveStarTrekFan:

They could have had the whole movie with just visuals of the Enterprise in spacedock, and I’d still have sat there in absolute awe at what I was seeing.

It was an exceedingly gorgeous film wasn’t it? Not the most exciting or action packed by far, but the cinematography was gorgeous. TMP is one of the main reasons I upgraded to bluray, I wanted to see what they did with it. :)

135. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 22, 2013

When did Kirk physically attack anyone? His actions were defensive.

136. Pauln6 - February 23, 2013

I think you have to accept that they dumbed down the movie quite a bit to get everybody in position early on. If the movie had been 4 hours long, maybe they could have taken more care.

For my part, I think they should have left Number One in place and made Spock a Lieutenant or Lt-commander science officer (he is still only about 26 and Uhura is about 18-19). The movie should have ended with Kirk apprenticed as second officer on the Hood, with a nod and a wink that he’d be back on the Enterprise in three. This would have given them a chance to move the timeline forwards so that all these senior officers a chance to be old enough and experienced enough to have earned their positions. If the timeline is moved only 6 months on in the sequel then Cho is a 40-year old playing a 21 year old.

TOS had many cringeworthy moments too, officers wandering off their posts to have a chat, women going all mooshy over a man with or without togas, gross insubordination in the face of stress, yeomen getting the captain to look at their legs (but at least she was nutty at the time) etc.

I think it’s ok to show people behaving unprofessionally as long as it’s acknowledged that they’re behaving unprofessionally, either with a telling off or a reprimand. The comic does stray into the realms of bucking authority is good and should be rewarded because superior officers are jerks. The fall-out from the tribble story was very tame for example. I think they are just erring on the wrong side of it to appeal to a younger audience.

There is a lot to love in TMP. If it had just had a faster pace and IMO a few scenes of a landing party exploring V’Ger’s innards to allow for some more character moments, I think it would have been great. I love the professionalism of the characters within the limits of the story.

137. Commodore Adams - February 23, 2013

issues 17 and 18 are interesting, I am enjoying them more than the darkness countdown. I do like how there are dedicating one comic to a back story on each character. But I do want to get back to the adventure.

138. FarStrider - February 23, 2013

@136 Unless Uhura was 15 or 16 when she met Kirk in the bar (and he was setting himself up for a statutory rape charge), she is not 18 or 19 three years later when Nero shows up. And given that she is listed as a TA for 2 different departments on her dossier from the first movie’s website (acoustical engineering and xenolingustics), she is obviously a graduate student. At the very least, she is 21, but most likely she is 24 or 25 during the main events of ST09.

~FS

139. Pauln6 - February 23, 2013

Welcome to the world of the ret-con. She was originally born in 2239 so we are back to saying that Nero made all the younger characters be born 4 years earlier so that Spock looks less creepy? Sigh.

Basically, the original crew was diverse in age and experience. That was why they had different ranks and positions on board the ship. Squeezing them all together is a bad idea or we have to start wondering why they got to be senior officers straight out of the academy but can’t progress beyond that. Still, at least Uhura has got to be in charge of the bridge in the comics.

140. gingerly - February 23, 2013

@131

“Not exactly sure what you expect me to say to that.”

Maybe acknowledging that speaking for all of one segment of the population might have been a bit ill-advised???

Yeah, it’s funny how that works. No one needs reminding to bring up any shortcomings they feel Uhura has, but point out Kirk’s issues and it’s “Yeah, I had issues with him too.”

If that’s so, then why do they not bring them up before any reminder?

Seems a bit disingenuous to me.

141. Jemini - February 23, 2013

“This issue puts the brave and beautiful Uhura in the spotlight as we learn new secrets about her past and witness her first meeting with Spock! “

this issue doesn’t show their first meeting, rather, it shows the first time she asks him out after he had been her teacher (did I already comment how awesome she’s in that part? LOL “fascinating” )

I wonder who makes these summaries….

142. FarStrider - February 23, 2013

@139 It’s not a retcon. When was it ever canon that Uhura was born in 2239? Name that episode. Eeven Memory Alpha just says she was born in the 2230s. And considering that the original writers couldn’t even be bothered to give her a first name, why do you think they would bother to give her a specific birthdate? Sorry, but Uhura is NOT 18-19.

143. Jemini - February 23, 2013

138. FarStrider
yeah, I can buy her being 20 or 25 but not 18-19

144. Jemini - February 23, 2013

and I don’t think that Spock or Kirk are older than 27-28

I think that the oldest one is Scotty followed by McCoy who should be around 30

145. Starfleet Sideburns - February 23, 2013

@139 (Pauln6): I know StarTrek.com and other sources give 2239 as Uhura’s birth year, but I don’t think her age has ever been established on-screen. So canonically speaking we don’t really know how old she is, which should give some wiggle room. Personally I’d prefer if she were a bit older, if for no other reason than that the bar scene would be kind of creepy if she wasn’t. (Not to mention Uhura would be too young to go to a bar, but maybe things are different in the 23rd centrury in regard to serving alcohol to underage persons. Or maybe they all just drink synthenol. :P) And while I’m totally buying Zoe Saldana as a 20-something, as a teenager… not so much.

146. FarStrider - February 23, 2013

@144 Jemini, We know that Kirk is 25 at the end of ST09 — Nero waited 25 years for Spock, Kirk was born on 2233.04 and Nero’s attack was in 2258 (Kirk’s log entry) — we know that he met Uhura when he was 22 (the whole “3 years later” titlecard). In the cut scene of Spock’s birth, the titlecard tells us that it is 2230, but since it was cut, that scene is not canon. It is safe to assume though that Spock is 1-3 years older than Kirk, making him 26-28 during the battle of Vulcan.

@145 Starfleet Sideburns: As to drinking ages in the future, given what is known about the effects of alcohol on the brain, and brain maturity, I just don’t see societies letting 15-year-olds shoot whiskey anytime soon. (Synthehol, maybe, but Uhura didn’t order any drinks with synthehol). :-)

~FS

147. Pauln6 - February 23, 2013

Yeah, I agree that they don’t require a formal retcon. Most of the characters’ ages were based on the actors’ ages. Sulu is listed as 2 years older than Uhura (i.e. 20-21) but if they both followed the standard route, they would have joined at 18 and spent 4 years training, making them both 22.

The ages of the characters in TOS Trek at 2266 were (I think):
Kirk 33
Spock 36
McCoy 39
Scotty 44
Rand 34
Sulu 29
Uhura 27
Chapel 31
Chekov 21

I don’t think Chapel’s age was necessarily ever established on screen, so I suppose we only need to squeeze Chekov, Uhura, and Sulu into a narrower band. Now they would be:
Sulu 30
Uhura 30
Chekov 24

148. Trekkiegal63 - February 23, 2013

#140 Gingerly:

You know I find it interesting that in one breath you say this:

Maybe acknowledging that speaking for all of one segment of the population might have been a bit ill-advised???

Then follow it up immediately with this:

No one needs reminding to bring up any shortcomings they feel Uhura has, but point out Kirk’s issues and it’s “Yeah, I had issues with him too.”

If that’s so, then why do they not bring them up before any reminder?

Let’s pay particular attention to your use of the terms “no one” and then “they”.

Hello Kettle. ;)

And btw way, you’re making some very broad assumptions here:

The first assumption being, of course, is that anyone who has a problem with that scene dislikes the character as a whole. For me, personally, I can honestly say that this is not the case. I’ve said this before in this very thread, and I’ll repeat it until it sticks: a behavior is not the total sum of a person. I can dislike the behavior portrayed in an individual scene, but adore the character as a whole. For example: I dislike it when my daughter, who inherited both my husband’s and I’s penchant for sarcasm, sasses back to me, but I love my daughter more than words are capable of adequately conveying. Likewise, I can feel that Uhura was bordering on insubordinate in that scene, but overall feel she is a wonderful character.

The second assumption you are making is that find fault with a character – during ONE scene, I might add, one scene out of many for a character that is over 46-years-old conceptually – is a bad thing. Personally, I don’t want my favored characters to be entirely perfect as it makes it so much more difficult to relate to them. As McCoy once wisely said to Spock in ST:VH “Well, nobody’s perfect.” One Marty Sue (i.e. Wesley Crusher) was enough for one franchise, thanks.

Your third assumption is that because I didn’t bring up Kirk that I’m somehow targeting Uhura. Need I remind you that this thread is based on a comic entirely centered on Uhura? Genuine question here because I didn’t buy this particular comic: did Kirk even so much as have a cameo in this issue? If this thread were centered around Kirk I’m sure you’d find some people who would point to behaviors he exhibited in the film that they didn’t approve of.

But it’s not.

Lastly, I don’t know exactly what you’re trying to accomplish here, but it is coming across to “me” that you’re trying to pick a fight with me. I’ll have to respectfully decline. There’s been too much ugliness on this thread already. This will be the last time I respond to this particular subject matter with you. However, if you would like to discuss the positives traits I admire in Uhura and then tell me the ones that you do, or gush over the awesomeness of Trek as a whole, then I extend an olive branch.

149. Trekkiegal63 - February 23, 2013

#135 Rose (as in Keachick):

I intend to respond to your question but I need to dig out my bluray of ST2009 really quick and verify that I’m remembering the bar scene correctly…

Or maybe I’ll just appeal to everyone perusing this thread… my memory is telling me that Kirk was the first one to throw a punch in the bar scene, is this correct? It’s been a few months since I watched that movie last.

150. FarStrider - February 23, 2013

Shatner and Nimoy were born in 1931, Nichols was born in 1932. . . so if Uhura was supposed to be Nichols’ age, someone screwed up big time. . .

Basically, all of that is fanwank, and not canon.

~FS

151. FarStrider - February 23, 2013

135. Kirk attacked the officers escorting him off the bridge, and drawing one of their weapons,which led to Spock nerve-pinching him and sending him down to Delta Vega (part deux).

~FS

152. Dee - lvs moon' surface - February 23, 2013

Chris Pine and Zoe Saldana watch rehearsals for the Academy Awards in Los Angeles, Saturday, Feb. 23, 2013

http://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.1168955!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg

153. Pauln6 - February 23, 2013

@ Ok my bad, I had no idea she was that old – she looks great! I guess black really don’t crack! I was aware that the other characters’ official ages do not coincide precisely with their actual ages – I had mistakenly thought that they had stuck with the remaining actors’ actual ages. Certainly Majel was 31 ish around the time of Season 1. I think it was the official Star Trek Chronology that gave Uhura a definite date of birth though, rather than ‘fanwank’. Although your mileage may vary on whether you just consider that a form of fanwank I suppose. There’s no need to be overly defensive on the subject though, since Chekov is not the same person as TOS Chekov, anybody born after Nero’s incursion could be a biologically different entity with a different date of birth.

I know that Rand’s age was going to be stated as 24 (12 years or so younger than the actress) but the line was cut from the script and her DOB later appeared on a screen in the background, making her much closer to Grace’s own age. I think I prefer to think of Rand as older, since she was a pretty senior non-com.

Presumably McCoy’s age can be worked out from Encounter at Farpoint.

154. Pauln6 - February 23, 2013

@ 151 – both Kirk and Spock acted inappropriately. Kirk disobeys a direct order, tries to assault a senior officer, and resists arrest. Spock wastes a perfectly good escape capsule and unnecessarily risks Kirk’s life by not just beaming him to the brig on the outpost or if there is no brig, just beam him down in cuffs with a security escort.

What’s more, Kirk was wrong. Without the additional information provided by Spock Prime, plus Scotty’s warp repairs and transportation skills it looks very unlikely that his plan to pursue the Narada would have resulted in anything but the destruction of the Enterprise and Earth. Still want to promote the guy?

It’s also odd that the Narada decides to take so much time to get to Earth when you consider that Enterprise was travelling at Warp 4 and spent a day going in the wrong direction. Oh, and Kirk only survives because Pike didn’t need medical attention, since he forgot to take along a doctor or any security assistance.

It makes our heroes’ success even more down to luck than any good judgment.

155. Phil - February 23, 2013

@151. Further, because he was going for a weapon, then what. Hopefully munity isn’t a capital offence in the 23rd century…

156. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - February 23, 2013

I’ve just checked the DVD of Star Trek 2009. In the bar scene ‘cupcake’ throws the first punch after Kirk pats him on the cheek (and gives him cheek as well…)

However, as others have already noted, Kirk was the first to use physical violence in the altercation on the bridge that led to him being thrown off the ship.

157. Trekkiegal63 - February 23, 2013

#156 ObsessiveStarTrekFan:

Thank you! I just started the movie specifically for that scene… not that watching the movie again is a chore. *Any* excuse is a good one. ;)

158. FarStrider - February 23, 2013

@155 Rose asked when Kirk physically attacked someone, and I answered her. And given what we have seen in TOS, Spock was perfectly within his rights to put Kirk off the ship: as seen in WNMHGB and Space Seed, the Captain of the ship has the right to put any crew member off the ship at his discretion. And it doesn’t matter if conditions are dangerous. See Gary Mitchell and Marla McGivers. So Spock, as “Acting Captain” was within his rights to send Kirk to Delta Vega (part deux), whether we think it “appropriate” or not.

@153 No book is canon, there are too many “Chronologies” and “Technical Manuals” with too many contradictions and based on too many assumptions to take them seriously. I mean, why are Kirk’s and Sulu’s ages based on Takei and Shatner’s age, but Uhura is assumed to be 6 years younger? And the first warp flight takes place in 2061 or 2063 depending on who you ask? Until something is made canon by being mentioned on screen, no book is canon, not even Roddenberry’s TMP novelization is canon. . . .

159. Trekkiegal63 - February 23, 2013

#135 Rose (as in Keachick):

So Rose, I take it back. In lieu of ObsessiveStarTrekFan’s insight, I alluded to a pattern of behavior and there wasn’t exactly a pattern necessarily. In the bar scene, at least, you are correct, he was defending himself.

However, I agree with ObsessiveStarTrekFan, Pauln6, Phil and FarStrider… the scene on the bridge was entirely on Kirk’s shoulders.

160. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 23, 2013

Uhura, I thought, was similar in age to Kirk. She was already a Starfleet cadet when Kirk joined.

If she were 15 or 16, I doubt she would have been admitted into any bar. In NZ the legal drinking age here is 18 and the age of consent is 16. A 16 year old can marry with a parent or guardian’s consent. I believe when that person becomes 18, he/she can marry with consent. Although it does seem creepy for a 22-25 year old to be hanging around a 16 year old, if they do engage consensual intercourse, it would not be statutory rape. I understand that the laws surrounding the drinking age and age of consent can vary from state to state in the US.

Yes, Kirk should not have fought the security guards who were acting under orders from acting Captain Spock, who had been put in command by Captain Pike. I think that Spock decided to put Kirk off the ship because Spock suspected that Kirk would keep giving trouble…little did he know what putting this guy off the ship did bring…sigh…oh dear…poor Spock…damned if he did, damned if he didn’t in this respect.

161. Phil - February 23, 2013

@159. I don’t know that it really matters if Kirk threw the first punch that night. When Pike is talking to him after the fight, he makes a snarky comment about Kirk being a ‘genius level repeat offender’. That tends to imply this wasn’t Kirks first time getting stomped, but his offenses hadn’t risen to a level that would have barred him from getting into the academy. Either that, or Starfleet has really s**tty recruiting standards….

162. Pauln6 - February 24, 2013

If we make assumption s about Uhura’s age then she should be 3 years younger than Kirk (assuming she’s not a wunderkind like Chekov and joined at 18 and tok 4 years to graduate) compared to Spock’s 28 (although it seems that Spock’s exact year of birth may have been edited from the film.

163. Jack - February 24, 2013

Inappropriate, sure (fighting with security). But, the guy was trying to stop the imminent destruction of Earth (and, not sure if he thought that far ahead, but also the destruction other planets immediately afterwards, if Nero’s trail after Earth became cold.).

164. Jemini - February 24, 2013

146. FarStrider
exactly
maybe Uhura is the same age as Kirk or a little younger and I agree that the bar scene kinda rules out the possibility that she was younger than 18

165. Baby - February 24, 2013

Kirk is 25, that one is quite obvious because Nero waited for 25 years to get his revenge and the first time Nero appeared from the blackhole and created the new timeline just happens to be the time of Kirk’s birth’s….. so Kirk is 25.

As for Uhura, I read this star trek academy series called THE EDGE, which is a tie in novel to star trek 2009. in that novel it states that uhura was 20 when she first joined star fleet.

The novel also states further that kirk and uhura where both first year cadets at the academy. this was before the additional 3 years that has passed in the film.

which means that uhura is either 23 or 24 when the events of 09 film takes place.

JJ abrams also said in the dvd commentary that Spock is 3 years older than Kirk .

the deleted scene of Spock’s birth took place 3 years before the destruction of the USS Kelvin , A ship where Winona bearly mannages to escape while been pregant with kirk…..oh sorry……Make that, immediately going into labour and giving birth to Kirk

So that means:

Spock is 28

Kirk is 25

Uhura is 23 or 24.

166. Jemini - February 24, 2013

148. Trekkiegal63
what you originally wrote:
For those of us with any military exposure whatsoever, we all cringed during that scene.”

your reply to gingerly – who, as one of those people with military exposure – disagreed with you:

“I [do not] expect everyone to have the same reactions to a scene that I did. “

some contradictory statements here…..

hello pot ^

167. Jemini - February 24, 2013

152. Dee – lvs moon’ surface
cute picture of Chris and Zoe making eye glasses look very pretty ;)

168. Commander K - February 24, 2013

Back to the movie.,motion poster revealed…

http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/star-trek-into-darkness-unveils-motion-poster—w/296374

Not much new, but still…exciting!

169. Jemini - February 24, 2013

168 Commander K:
I’d rather prefer them release a new poster with the other characters…

170. Pauln6 - February 24, 2013

So Uhura did it in three too? Kirk’s not that special after all. And since Uhura is the only character who didn”t screw anything up in the last movie one has to wonder why Kirk and Spock got all the accolades. It was probably Kirk’s decision to take the guy who speaks a language that sounds a bit like Romulan instead of the woman who speaks fluent Romulan on the mission because Spock Prime told Kirk that he was more important than Uhura. The glass ceiling is alive and well in te 23rd century. Who knows what Uhura can achieve once she gets those shambolic glory hogs out of the way?

171. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

#170 – Actually it was Spock who volunteered to go to the Narada in order to get the red matter, find the weapon and therefore put a stop to Nero. Kirk said that he was coming with Spock. Kirk was not going to send Spock on such a dangerous alone. At this point Kirk was his commanding officer.

Certainly it would appear that Lt Uhura would have logically been the better person, because she actually did know all three Romulan dialects, whereas Spock did not. I think that what has not been told in the film is that Kirk knows that only nuSpock can do this because he is the only one who could fly the Jellyfish. Spock Prime told him so. No one but the Spocks could fly the Jellyfish, ie get the vessel containing the red matter out of Nero’s control. I doubt that Spock Prime ever intimated to Kirk that he (both Spocks) were more important than Uhura or anyone else for that matter. Why should he?

I think it would have been more cool if Uhura did go with the two of them as back up communications officer and security, however, as Kirk knew, Spock was the only person who could do what needed to be done, ie fly the Jellyfish that contained the red matter.

It does seem that the subsequent comics do have Uhura in role of a kind of troubleshooter, capable of being a “Jill of all trades”. Cool!

172. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

edit: meant to write “…such a dangerous MISSION alone.”

173. Mel - February 24, 2013

Please vote! Vulcan is one of the choices. :-)
Shatner and Nimoy mentioned it on twitter, too.

http://www.plutorocks.com/

Help Us Name the Moons of Pluto!

Images taken by the Hubble Space Telescope in 2011 and 2012 revealed two previously unknown moons of Pluto. So far, we have been calling them “P4″ and “P5″, but the time has come to give them permanent names. If it were up to you, what would you choose?

By tradition, the names of Pluto’s moons come from Greek and Roman mythology, and are related to the ancient tales about Hades and the Underworld. Please pick your favorites on the ballot below.

174. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

Article about the guys who are making STID -

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/02/22/star-trek-movie-jj-abrams/3/

175. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

OK let’s start at page 1 (did not realize that the other link would not…huh?)

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/02/22/star-trek-movie-jj-abrams/

176. Pauln6 - February 24, 2013

@ 170 – Yes, that’s the silly thing about both Kirk and Spock – they both seem to think that infiltrating the Narada is a one man job but that’s ludicrous. We’ve already seen that a ship’s internal sensors will detect a transporter signal immediately. The single (or even two man) team that beams across onto the Narada is going to have company mere seconds after they transport in.

If we assume that the NuEnterprise has only one transporter room and no emergency transporters it would still have made more sense to send over a full team to maximise their chance of success. It would have made even more sense to beam a full security team to bridge to act as a distraction and maybe take out Nero’s command crew too but again, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt since scanning the ship to locate the bridge would also probably have tipped Nero off before they could transport.

I was of course being facetious about Uhura and the glass ceiling. The writers are so focused on making sure that the boys bond that they completely forget that the woman is better qualified for the job. La plus ca change. However, it is absolutely correct to say that Kirk knew that Spock was needed for the mission and absolutely odd that he decided he had to wait for him to volunteer. I mean, prior to Spock volunteering we have one man going across who speaks no Romulan and can’t fly the Jellyfish while the qualified woman monitors his frequencies. Real smart Kirk.

177. Rose (as in Keachick) - February 24, 2013

True. It would have made more sense for Uhura to have gone on the mission with them. She certainly could have provided extra backup for either Kirk or Spock. The other part of the mission was to rescue Captain Pike.

The distance between the Enterprise and Narada were greater than what would have been normal for safe use of transporters and that would have to be a consideration when deciding how many people should use that facility. Scotty only hoped that he was going to beam them into a fairly quiet area of the Narada, however given the completely ludicrous layout of the Narada, he would have never been able to get that right. Therefore, using as smaller team as possible to infiltrate the Narada, find the weapon and free Pike was the more sensible and safer option.

Both Spock and Kirk knew that they may not make it out alive, but hoped that their sacrifice will have secured the safety of the Enterprise and earth.

178. porthoses bitch - February 24, 2013

Thank you Seth McFarlane.. thank you Mr. Shatner…….. I am feeling very wistful….to quote Mr Sulu “pleasure to see you in actioon one last time, sir”

179. Basement Blogger - February 24, 2013

Yes, hooray for Hollywood. Seth McFarlane and William Shatner as Captain Kirk did a funny show business opening skit for the Oscars!

180. Pauln6 - February 24, 2013

@ 177 The ‘small infiltration team’ excuse makes no sense because the Narada will detect the incursion as soon as it happens. You actually need a bigger team to deal with the reaction.

The ‘dangerous transport’ excuse, bearing in mind the fate of an entire planet is at stake, makes no sense either when you consider that Troi failed her command exams for making a similar decision to try and do it all herself.

181. Phil - February 25, 2013

The Kirk/Spock strike team is completely a construct of Hollywood, designed to show the audience a scene where the two guys can work together and bond under fire. It’s ludicrous to suggest that what was shown had any tactical merit at all, or any chance of success.

Consider that Enterprise has miltiple transporters, and because of the nature of her mission security personal have been trained for this type of situation, along with the necessary support personal. Technology, such as universal translators, resolve basic communications issues. The Narada would have been properly intel’ed at that point, so Enterprise would know approximate numbers and loctions of her crew. Command and control (Kirk, Spock, and possible Uhura (communications would probably also include some intelligence responsibility) remain on Enterprise, and you insert your strike teams in to accomplish their objectives. Sounds like another episode of HISHE in the making here…

182. Trekkiegal63 - February 25, 2013

#176 Pauln6:

Partway agree, partway not. I don’t know if you’ve read this article: (http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/06/getting-star-trek-on-air-was-impossible.html) yet or not, which is composed of an exchange of letters between Roddenberry and science fiction writer Isaac Asimov, but the article covers why Roddenberry went out of his way to make Kirk and Spock best friends and the unbeatable team in TOS. It had to do with the fact that Spock was the more popular character while Shatner was the more critically acclaimed actor at the time, having been known in Broadway. Roddenberry wanted a way to put forth the best of both the characters Kirk and Spock, without it devolving into a competition between the two characters. Asimov suggested that the solution was to make the two characters inseparable.

Excerpt from article:

(from Isaac Asimov’s letter to Roddenberry) …Then, too, it might be well to unify the team of Kirk and Spock a bit, by having them actively meet various menaces together with one saving the life of the other on occasion. The idea of this would be to get people to think of Kirk when they think of Spock.

So yes, I agree with Phil that the Narada scenes in ST2009 were a ‘bond under fire’ moment, but I also think it was a diliberate nod (or easter egg if you will) to an aspect of TOS that was intentionally developed to the point it became near synomonous with the name Star Trek. Even I, who is, admittedly, a feminist, and who would love to see more of Uhura utilizing her unique and gifted skill set in Trek can admit that Roddenberry’s (actually Asimov’s) reason for utilizing the duo of Kirk and Spock the way they did was a genius way of handling a problem they had in the development of the series and not diliberately sexist in nature. .. for this one instance. And I can respect why the writers of ST2009 wanted to pay homage to that.

Having said all of that… I very much look forward to the promise of seeing Uhura kick more butt in this next film. ;)

183. Jovius the Romulan - February 25, 2013

Phil: The universal translator is a bit of a flawed idea to begin with if you really think about it. But with the UT in mind, they didn’t even NEED Uhura to take over the other guy’s post. By the time of “Enterprise”, Romulan language had already been perfectly translated!

It is shown that the use of a UT can be detected in ST6, but I can’t think of a situation where she would need to speak Romulan in any of the three dialects… unless Nero were somehow trying to contact the Romulans of the 23rd century and needed to be fooled? I don’t know, honestly. It was a story contrivance to get her in the ops chair in the end.

184. Jovius the Romulan - February 25, 2013

Or if the UT went offline or something, I guess… they have been shown to fail from time to time.

185. Phil - February 25, 2013

@183. Not that much of a contrivance, intelligence had determined the Narada was Romulan, it was early on in the crisis and Enterprise was scrambling to gather all the knowledge they could. Obviously, in this universe a bit more is known of the Romulans then in the prime universe, so I’d expect the UT to be used for general translation, and a linguist to make interpetations based on observed inflection and dialect. It’s probably a safe bet Nero was speaking Romulan to his crew – the enhancements to Narada was probably making it difficult for Enterprise to conduct intelligence. That’s why during the final assult I’d want Uhura on the bridge with Kirk and Spock to be interpeting real time during the mission, so they could make competent decision.

186. Phil - February 25, 2013

@182. Interesting perspective on Asimov’s input. Mr. Orci doesn’t respond directly to to many questions here, but it would be interesting to hear his comments on what other influences on the development of TOS helped guide their efforts….

187. Pauln6 - February 25, 2013

@185 It’s arguable that Uhura had a use on the bridge but I’m not wholly convinced that Uhura would be much more use than on the mission – the Narada can jam communications after all. Plus just about anything that would have spared me the awful goodbye scene in the transporter room would have been preferable.

Even Cassiopeia got landing party duty in Mission Galactica and she was a dirty socialator. Give Uhura a gun, beam her over, and let her save Kirk’s arrogant behind. I’d have been much happier.

188. Phil - February 25, 2013

@187. The flip side to my position, I suppose, is that if you are bringing some of the senior staff on the mission, you could probably bring all of them. Of course, outside of Scotty and Spock, it looks like it’s a stretch to refer to these guys as ‘senior’ staff to begin with…

189. Curious Cadet - March 2, 2013

Well at least she’s wearing pants in this movie when engaged in “away missions”. Mostly. The image from this article still makes my teeth hurt. I’m sure there’s a reason for her to be scrambling around a dangerous looking platform in a skirt, but the overall effect forces me to imagine some kind of Starfleet training program where female cadets engage in military maneuvers in skirts so they are prepared for unique hazards such combat presents (imagine if Uhura had been stranded with Kirk on Delta Vega in that outfit). I’m trying hard to imagine, now that women can serve in the US combat infantry, a situation where women would wear some kind of fatigue BDU comprised of a short skirt in Afganistan. Are there official issue military duty shorts? If so I’ve never seen any pictures of them in the field, though it wouldn’t be such a stretch from shorts to skirts then … oh who am I kidding … it’s just not realistic. The only place it makes sense is doing a desk job in a secure environment like the Pentagon.

http://trekmovie.com/2012/02/24/first-unofficial-location-shots-from-star-trek-sequel-including-cumberbatch-quinto-saldana/

190. Phil - March 2, 2013

@189. My son is in the Navy, and all I’ve ever seen are the duty uniforms, ( the camouflage), the service uniform (khaki shirt/black pants), and the dress whites/blues. No shorts, mini skirts, or boots with high heels. Considering the problems the services still seem to have with harrassment, the last thing the Pentagon needs are mini skirts on the ladies…

191. Pauln6 - March 3, 2013

I’ve now read both 18 and Countdown to Darkness issue 2. I rather liked the Uhura origin story. It was a little bit lightweight but its heart was in the right place. It didn’t overdo the relationship stuff.

I’m torn as to whether I would have preferred an uncle or an aunt featuring as an influence. We’ve already seen that Kirk’s dead father seems to have more of an impact on his character than his mother, we’ve seen McCoy’s father, and we’ve seen that while Spock’s dual nature can be personified by his parents, it’s ok to kill his mother because his human girlfriend can now step into that role. I suppose the difference between Spock and Kirk is that Spock’s surviving parent is an ongoing influence while Kirk’s mother is a footnote. So on the one hand it would have been nice to see the influence of a female relative on one of the characters but on the other would that polarise the sexes – the boys are influenced by other males and the girls by other females. I like the mini skirts as they are iconic but I agree they are not practical. They do seem to ge sensible in putting Uhura in trousers for away missions. Even so, I still think they still need to change their game when it comes to gender roles.

I’m really liking the prequel comic. There are more than enough plot threads to make this very interesting. Four issue stories allow for so much more plot and character development that I’m still lamenting that we get only one or two issue stories in ongoing. Maybe if they do one four issue brand new story per year that would satisfy my desire for some more meat on the bones. I really think that the Vulcan storyline would have benefited tremendously from being twice as long. The opener was fantastic and there were a wealth of possibilities to explore. It was just over too quickly and neatly.

Nichelle Nichols would have been great in the centre chair and it’s nice to see the Saldana version effortlessly filling that role with the same strength of personality. Now all they need to do is REPEAT THIS ON SCREEN – SHE DESERVES IT!!!!!

Once again, apart from Uhura and a navigator in flashback, women are thin on the ground. April’s command team was all male and it’s getting tiresome. Social insect hierarchies on Earth are dominated by females, including warriors, with males’ primary purpose to mate with queens. It will be interesting to see if these alien bugs follow that hierarchy of they impose a male dominated hierarchy instead.

Overall, this was a good month for NuTrek comics.

192. Curious Cadet - March 3, 2013

@191 pauln6,
“Once again, apart from Uhura and a navigator in flashback, women are thin on the ground.”

Women are embarrassingly thin in both Abrams movies, as are minorities. Take a look at the credits. All white men playing Starfleet characters, as well as the bad guys. The ONLY major exceptions to this is Uhura and Sulu, and Carol Marcus who is also white. Sulu is arguably a minor character in the first movie, and haven’t really seen him in any of the trailers for the new. In the new film Clarke and Contractor’s roles are not defined, but they may not occupy anything more than a token minority role in the way Capt. Robau did (who was killed in the first 5 minutes). Yes Tyler Perry had a seemingly important role, but that was a bit of stunt casting, where the character had an important title, but an insignificant role in the film.

Abrams had a chance to reboot this universe and make it significantly more diverse than that which Star Trek of the 1960s was forced to depict. But so far I haven’t seen it. With the exception of giving Uhura a bigger role, at least in the first film her expanded role was not a significant improvement. The new film appears to at least attempt to redress this, though I’m not sure it’s enough against the otherwise white, male canvas on which this story is painted. And I’m not sure Saldana is the actor to pull off the center seat based on her other work. I see Saldana pushing hard for roles she wants as an actor, but not that she is necessarily best suited to play. But we shall see. Certainly the character is deserving of the responsibility — i.e. Uhura sees that she wants to be more than a glorified space operator, so she takes the leadership training needed to become a command officer, perhaps in part due to her relationship with Spock, something we never saw in the Prime timeline.

193. Keachick - March 3, 2013

I’m watching the entire Star Trek TOS second series. Has anyone not actually noticed just how SHORT those dresses are? In one episode, a female crewmembers red shorts/underwear could be seen. That is how short the red Starfleet female uniform is, as seen on the 1960′s TV series. I would say that the length of the SKIRT that alt.Uhura wears is an improvement…

194. GOOGLE - March 5, 2013

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195. Jovius the Romulan - March 8, 2013

191, 192: I agree on all points. While I understand they can’t do much about the two main characters (who were always portrayed by white males), they could put a little more effort into diversity. Just one example: I swear, besides Tuvok and T’pring I’ve almost never seen a significant Vulcan/Romulan character portrayed by anyone other than whites. Sadly, the same problem was present in Deep Space Nine with the Bajorans. In both races we see there’s a wide variety of ethnic diversity… with background characters. Why not more with characters significant to the story? Would it have killed them to cast, say, Vedek Bareil with an Asian actor, or are these sort of things (like was pointed with Nero and Cupcake in another discussion) out of fear that there will be MORE backlash casting them that way? Accusations of stereotyping and such. I don’t know. Perhaps it’s a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t thing. If Cupcake was cast with a black actor, they may have gotten accusations of stereotyping “the angry black man” or something. And if Nero was female, there might be some outcry over “the emotionally unstable chick”. I suppose these things are never easy.

All the same, let’s give them props for making Robau one of the few Starfleet captains who was competent, even in his few minutes of screentime. I got rather tired of all the weak, ineffectual, deranged, or pompous captains that only served to make Kirk look cooler. Being a captain is a big privilege, and one not earned lightly. I’m also sure Taran Fahir liked not being cast as Evil Middle Eastern Terrorist for once.

With regards to Tyler Perry… I didn’t like the casting because it looked and felt like a forced cameo. He didn’t seem comfortable in the role. I recall a lot of people in the theatre laughing when he came on screen. Not a good sign. It wasn’t something as subtle as Andrew Pausch (rest in peace) or James Cawley’s brief appearances that were fun to find but didn’t detract from the overall experience.

196. Jovius the Romulan - March 8, 2013

Ah, that was meant to be Faran Tahir.

197. Pauln6 - March 8, 2013

The black captain in STIV was pretty ineffectual but I don’t recall their being much of a furore about this disrespecting her race or sex – but then I was quite young at the time. The more characters you have, the more diverse the characters they will portray. If you back away from criticism you will never have a wide enough pool of characters to check whether you are being fair.

I recall a movie called Beautiful Thing about a teen gay romance. The gay characters were so boring and all the straight characters around them were nutty as fruitcakes. The writers were making a deliberate point for a particular reason but if you look at the range of gay characters out there now there is a lot more balance overall.

Having said that, I was a bit unhappy at the decision to edit out the gay MI5 agent in the US version of State of Play. It left only the sleazy gay and bisexual characters and p~ssed all over a golden opportunity to have a decent gay hero – a real rarity in a thriller. A very poor editing choice.

198. Red Dead Ryan - March 8, 2013

There was a black Romulan commander in the TNG episode “The Pegasus”.

199. Jovius the Romulan - March 8, 2013

Pauln6: Well, to be fair there was nothing much her or Robau could have done in their respective situations. They were outmatched — an object that can render any ship powerless within a second and a ship from a century later that outgunned most every other ship even in its own timeline. However, both seemed competent at their jobs. Neither of them smacked of the forced pomposity of Excelsior’s captain or downright incompetence of John “tell me what to do” Harriman. Not to mention the three or so insane starship captains from TOS which got a bit tiresome after a bit. However, I think Terrell gets too much short shrift from fans. He fought against the influence of the Ceti eel just long enough to take his own life before he would be forced to take Kirk’s. That was brave, in my opinion.

Red Dead Ryan: Ah, good call there! I just wish he wasn’t the rare exception to the almost all white casting. Surely there are more Vulcan and Romulan officers than ones who came from a certain continent! Tim Russ was a great casting choice for Tuvok, not just because he was someone of colour playing a major Vulcan character for once, but because he played him so well. My favourite character of Voyager. But then, you can probably grasp by my screen name and what I say here that I’m a big fan of pointed-eared hobgoblins. ;)

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