Lindelof Hints There Is More To Cumberbatch’s John Harrison | TrekMovie.com
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Lindelof Hints There Is More To Cumberbatch’s John Harrison March 12, 2013

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Spoilers,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

The identity of Benedict Cumberbatch’s Star Trek Into Darkness villain has been an obsession for fans and the media – even before he was cast. Speculation didn’t stop when his character finally got a name and in a new interview, co-writer/producer Damon Lindelof is fueling the speculation fire even more.  

 

Lindelof hints John Harrison is just a cover

Officially Benedict Cumberbatch’s villain in Star Trek Into Darkness has been identified as John Harrison, a "terrorist" from "within Starfleet." But that hasn’t stopped speculation that there is more to him than that. And in an interview with the LA Times, co-writer/producer Damon Lindelof seems to confirm there is more to the character, even joking "“Benedict doesn’t even know who he’s playing.” More seriously, Lindelof explained why they are being tight-lipped about Harrison….

“The audience needs to have the same experience that the crew is having,” Lindelof explained. “You’re Kirk, you’re Spock, you’re McCoy, so if they don’t know who the bad guy is going to be in the movie, then you shouldn’t know. It’s not just keeping the secret for secrecy’s sake. It’s not giving the audience information that the characters don’t have.”

Lindelof went on to say he is going to great lengths to keep the secret, even from collaborators on other secret projects.


Benedict Cumberbatch’s John Harrison faces Chris Pine as Kirk in "Star Trek Into Darkness"

The writer also talked about how there is even more pressure in the sequel to find a way to make their new movie fit in with Star Trek’s history, telling the LA Times…

“If anything, we’ve become more terrified,” he said. “We kind of got it right the first time, [we thought], ‘Let’s really not screw it up this time.’ You really have to honor the 40-plus years of canon and legacy that this amazing franchise had before we put pen to paper.”

For more from Lindelof, read the full interview at the LA Times Hero Complex.

 

Comments

1. Phil - March 12, 2013

He’s a Transformer?

2. The Great Bird Lives - March 12, 2013

Khannnnnnn!

3. BatlethInTheGroin - March 12, 2013

KIRK: Who are you?

HARRISON: I’m Batman. Tell all your friends.

4. Trek Fan - March 12, 2013

3. BatlethInTheGroin

LOL … BEST POST EVER!

5. TrekMadeMeWonder - March 12, 2013

I’m liking this talk better.

I am back on the “go see it at the movies” side.

Now if you guys could deliver on a TOS Conn’y.

6. Curious cadet - March 12, 2013

@lindelof,
“It’s not just keeping the secret for secrecy’s sake. It’s not giving the audience information that the characters don’t have.”

That’s BS. The characters in ST09 had no idea who Nero was or what he was up to. Yet the audience went in knowing everything about him thanks to the Countdown comic.

If lindelof thinks they got the first movie right, then why hide the identity of the villain from us this time?

7. Keachick - March 12, 2013

Good going here, Bad Robot. We, the audience, should DEFINITELY not know anything more about this John Harrison person than our Kirk, Spock, McCoy and all the other fine Enterprise crew.

8. Keachick - March 12, 2013

#6 – We know his identity – John Harrison!

9. James - March 12, 2013

Sorry Great Bird, Still Don’t think its Khan.

I really think Khan will be saved for the closing Abrams produced film

10. Ensignjack - March 12, 2013

He’s really Robin

11. Dee - lvs moon surface - March 12, 2013

These days Damon Lindelof seems more interested in Justin Bieber’s hat…

;-) :-)

12. The Last Vulcan - March 12, 2013

Damon is pretty good at keeping secrets… he managed to keep the entire plot of Lost from the audience, even after the final ep! ;)

I keeeeeeeed! (Ok, not a total keeeeeeeed) :)

13. Tihaana - March 12, 2013

I got it.
It`s (young) Stephen Hawking traveling in time (through wormhole) and something went wrong, I don`t know what yet, and he is now the bad guy…

14. Steve Johnson - March 12, 2013

It’s about not letting the audience have information the characters don’t?

That’s called screen writing 101. There are many tools available to a writer to keep the audience and the main characters on the same page. We know John Harrison is the generator of much destruction in the movie the moment the story opens. We’re already ahead of the characters in that regard. So this is silly. If you were really afraid of the audience knowing more than the characters, we wouldn’t even know his name.

15. JR - March 12, 2013

He’s spock’s mother – regenerated.

16. Craiger - March 12, 2013

I think Harrison is this person. I know he was supposed to be George Kirk but they changed it to his friend named Johnny. Maybe they went back and remembered that scene and based John Harrison on him. Maybe Kirk forgot about his childhood friend? Doesn’t he look like a young Cumberbatch? He was played by actor Spencer Daniels.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/George_Samuel_Kirk?file=Johnny_(Human).jpg

17. L4YERCAKE - March 12, 2013

This is the point where we’re all better off pulling back from any spoilers and info, they’re doing such a great great job keeping this movie’s story a mystery, the trailers alone have been stupendous (just like 2009) especially in light of how it seems almost every trailer nowadays shows you the whole movie and loses its secrets and mystery.

Bravo to all of you involved and thank you!

18. USS EXETER - March 12, 2013

Someone tell JJ & Company that the trinity is Kirk, Spock, & McCoy. It isn’t Uhura, Kirk & Spock. That sista gets way too much screen time.

19. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

They are hiding the identify because the villain is controversial, did not need bad press from whining vhs trekkies imo.

20. Jeyl - March 12, 2013

Well, Lindelof is certainly an expert at making sure the audience doesn’t fully understand what’s going on.

21. captain_neill - March 12, 2013

I feel that Abrams has made a film called Star Trek rather than a Star Trek film but I really hope Lindelof is right, I hope the film honours what we love about Trek.

My attitude is I hope for a great film but fear Abrams will have jettisoned too much of Trek to fit in with his preferred vision.

Either way as a movie on its own right, it looks good. I do find myself more excited for season 3 of TNG on blu ray at the moment than the new movie and even I am questioning why am I more looking forward to seeing a show I have seen before looking better than ever than a new Star Trek movie?

22. Gary S - March 12, 2013

Was Damon Involved with ST09?
In this interview he was talking about keeping the secrets of STID.

23. captain_neill - March 12, 2013

20

Well if his writing of Prometheus is anything to go by I agree.

Can’t comment on Lost, lost interest too soon and heard it got full of crap towards the end

24. Boy - March 12, 2013

@ 18. USS EXETER

Your comment made me vomit.

25. Mark Lynch - March 12, 2013

I love Uhura as a character, but making more of her at the expense of screen-time for McCoy is just wrong.

26. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

Movie is not out yet, how do we know she has more screen time than McCoy?

27. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

We are spoiled to have that many talented actors and actresses in one movie, I don’t envy bob and crew for trying to give everyone lines and screen time.

28. Nony - March 12, 2013

“You’re Kirk, you’re Spock, you’re McCoy”? That sounds encouraging. I hope he’s not speaking in generalizations. Maybe McCoy will get a bit of storyline this time?

29. Martin - March 12, 2013

It would be cool if theres a cliffhanger at the end of this film revealing who jhon harrison really is or something like that. like prometheus

30. The Great Bird Lives - March 12, 2013

This movie will deal with eugenics. It’s pro’s, and con’s, and how humanity deals with it in the future. Khan is an obvious choice for villain in this story. In ‘Space Seed’ we learned that Khan was extremely bitter with Earth for having forced him into exile. And now that he’s been revived in Kirks century, he has become an integral player in a faction of Genetic misfits, and now swears to have his vengeance on the complacent, frail humans of the Earth.

31. Omegaman - March 12, 2013

So there’s more going than meets the eye? That’s been obvious from the start. I think most of us realise that. Can’ t wait to see the expression on Kirk’s face when Harrison’s true identity is revealed.

32. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

It’s a good strategy, look at empires strikes back when it was revealed who Darth Vador was…sometimes you need big surprises and secrets in film with twitter and the internets, movie magic seems gone.

33. captain_neill - March 12, 2013

My friend disagrees but I felt Uhura was ruined in the last film, she was made too bitchy and domineering over Spock.

She might have been right in pushing him to get on the Enterprise but Zoe Saldana assinated the character of Uhura for me and made me almost not like the new version of a character that I love in TOS.

34. Anonymous Coward - March 12, 2013

Good story telling does not particularly depend on surprises for the audience (give or take a ‘6th Sense’, of course- but even then…).

I already feel like I have seen about 75% of the movie already. Apart from the reason Harrison is doing this, what else do you need to know about the story?
Considering that JJ and the rest have jettisoned most of ST lore and not really rebuilt the universe to any degree, I suspect why Harrison is doing this will not be all that compelling.

#21-
‘I feel that Abrams has made a film called Star Trek rather than a Star Trek film but I really hope Lindelof is right, I hope the film honours what we love about Trek.’

How right you are.

35. Tox Utaht - March 12, 2013

No Khan. Just a Khan-nextion.

36. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

#33

The original Uhura would have said, thank you Cmdr Spock for assigning me to the Feragut, how boring.

New Uhura felt she earned her position on the Enterprise and would not stand for the fact that she lost out simply because she is dating Spock. Makes sense to me.

37. John from Cincinnati - March 12, 2013

Why did Cumberbatch dye his hair black for the role?

38. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

#37

To go into Darkness

39. smike - March 12, 2013

@33: Interesting point. To you she’s both bitchy and domineering! Great! That’s exactly how I feel about feminism. Yes, they use their charms domineeringly but when it comes to PC they sue you over neglecting equal rights. They call you “sexist” while still being fully aware of their ultimate power over you. Yeah, those females who are attrictive are quite grateful towards destiny for enabeling them with sheer unlimited powers. But as soon they get a little bit older, they’ll accuse you of abusing their bodily charms.

As far as “John Harrison” is concerned: of course there’s more to his character. He’s either Khan or another fampus TOS villain and we’ve known that from the beginning. I told you so. Others have told you so ever since. It’s ST:ID… ID stands for identity. It’s all a game of fake identity.

40. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

All I know is from day 1, I asked for Klingons and Khan, Qo’Nos, Hand to Hand Combat (Krav Maga), JJ reimagined Bird of Prey, More Future Earth, loss of gravity on ship floating around trying to their jobs, moon, mars, more space jumps, something along the lines of departed, inception, indiana jones, bigger scope, more epic sauce.

I wanted another crew to find Khan years earlier and have in Intergrated into Star Fleet and have Kirk go on a man hunt for him lol

I think they nailed it for me :)

41. James - March 12, 2013

30 Nothing we have seen officially released givves any indication that is the case.

42. James - March 12, 2013

And he wasn’t bitter in space speed/. the bitterness comes latter on and not towards earth, but to Kirk and the enterprise crew.

43. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

New Khan can be bitter if he was revived by another crew and integrated into Star Fleet as part of a elite force seal team and made promises never kept by April or Marcus

44. dmduncan - March 12, 2013

Way back before the script to this movie was written, when Bob was taking requests, I chimed in and said I’d like the type of ending for the movie that Shutter Island had. This was at the time that Shutter Island was new in theaters.

That is to say, the kind of ending where not until the VERY end do we learn something that turns everything that we thought before that moment on its head.

Hopefully I got my wish! I love O. Henry endings.

45. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

I remember linking boborci, anunaki videos from youtube and was happy to see it appear on Prometheus ie cave maps and gods and happy to see boborci use Niberu as planet x ;) boboci is a cool cat he knows how to wink at me lol these little nods nice way of saying, why thank you somethoughts internet poster on trekmovie.com!

It be epic to watch sequel with boborci etc!

46. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

The ipman fight scenes also! go boborci!

47. smike - March 12, 2013

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a problem with women per se, it’ s so-called “femists” I despise. Women want equality…check! There is nothing that speaks against! But what feminists want is more… total control! Full stop! Yeah, women should be equally paid. They should have the same rights and opportunities every man has got! I’m not questioning any of these righteous goals. But you can’t be “bitchy” (submissive) and “domineering” (using PC against you) at the same time! Women had always the advantage of being the fair(er) gender. And they’re equally picky when it comes to outward appeareance as men are.
But now, the game has changed. As long as they earn money from being sexy and mesmerizing, everything seems okay. But if these charms stop to work, they are abusing PC to achieve their goal of being nearly intouchable, just as if they were a minority worthy of being protected from evil society. Now we’ve got women’s officers, female quota in business and so on. And just while child-bearing is reaching an ultimate low, they’re screaming for the banishment of any kind of sexualisation, counteracting sexual liberation that actually helped them in finding their legs in society,

Sorry, but that’s not the kind of equality I used to support. Women are naturaly superior in a multitude of ways. They’re dominant in their own kind of way and while there is even not the slightest question about them having equal roghts and opportunities – which I totally support – these feminists abuse their own strenght being portrayed as a weakness destined to be eradicated. It’s absurd, unfair and in numerous ways just ridiculous.

Actually feminists are now more conservative than any man before them, definding outdated propaganda that used to be fashionable about 30 years ago. Real women are far more clever than falling for these self-restrictions that are actually weakening their legit case.

Nuff said?

48. smike - March 12, 2013

legit cause, not case

49. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

#47

Like that feminist lawyer on the Simpsons! god she gets on my nerves lol

50. sean - March 12, 2013

#39

Oh, you sound delightful.

51. pock smeared - March 12, 2013

@47 smike
wow. in order to enjoy fiction about the 23rd century, you might want to actually understand the 21st century.
“child-bearing is reaching an ultimate low”? really?

52. smike - March 12, 2013

Well, my “bitching” is actually due to some discussion going on in another threat. Just in case you wonder. Sorry, I shouldn’t have been that emotional about that…

Anyway, I’m glad women are just allowed to be women again on Star Trek. Just like boys will be boys. Where is the fun in taking all of that away? William Theiss was right: less is more! And that’s part of the Star Trek legacy! And if Kirk’s up for some close double encounter of the felline kind, it’s all right with me. Just as if Uhura is going to have some fun with Ol’ Pointyears… That’s life… or at least what it should be in an enlightened future that has grown beyond the boundaries of both… religious and feminist propaganda…

53. Bob Tompkins - March 12, 2013

It’d be the ultimate irony if all Starfleet managed to uncover is that ‘John Harrison’ is a refugee from the era of Khan and an Augment.

54. smike - March 12, 2013

@51: I don’t know about America (or wherever you are from), but yeah, child-birth has reached an ultimate low where I come from… It’s most likely pensions for my generation will not be affordable… But that’s okay…hopefully I got a couple of decades to enjoy from here… with many successful Star Trek movies to endorse…

55. Jack - March 12, 2013

Somebody, er, assinated Uhura? I knew I shoulda sprung for the uncensored DVD.

:/

56. Desstruxion - March 12, 2013

“You really have to honor the 40-plus years of canon and legacy that this amazing franchise had before we put pen to paper.”
—————————————————————————-
I wouldn’t worry about that now. The first film was so non-canon that at this point it shouldn’t matter.

57. DJT - March 12, 2013

Lindelof?! Oh wait. Let me attempt to imagine the most convoluted possible scenario then. Hmmm….Cumberbatch is actually Kirk’s son, David Marcus, from a future timeline, who has come back, genetically enhanced and surgically altered, to get some payback for letting him die on Genesis planet in prime timeline.

Does that make sense? No? That’s probably what we will see then.

He will also wear a yellow spiky hat. :)

58. Merrick - March 12, 2013

I think John Harrison is a rouge agent of section 31

59. Jim, London - March 12, 2013

Alternatively he could be a Klingon…..

60. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

well we do know Cumberbatch is, “Bettah, at everything!”

KM SIM i rocked that s$it
Orion Girls i had 3 at a time
Starfleet? I passed it in 1year, not 3
I know Kung Fu
My Ship cloaks
My Gun is bigger
My accent is cooler
I have a trench coat
I can beat up Spock
I had Carol

Kirk: Punch it!

61. Picard's Slappy Patty - March 12, 2013

He’s Kor!

62. David Moon - March 12, 2013

I like the David Marcus theory.

If it IS Kahn, I’m walking out.

63. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

#62

Yup, we all find out it is Khan but then the credits roll lol

64. Sebastian S. - March 12, 2013

He’s obviously Sherlock Holmes.
Cryogenically frozen after his rooftop death struggle with Moriarty.
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, must be the truth (which would make him Spock’s unnamed ancestor from ST6).

It’s elementary, really…

*this is my ‘it’s only a bad joke’ face* >> ;-D

65. Keachick - March 12, 2013

I have to agree with most of what Smike says here.

I, as female, wife and mother, who until she had her first child, had to support herself by working from the age 18, see nothing wrong in seeing Uhura and Spock may eyes at each other or whatever else they want to do. Both characters are being sexually *objectified* or is it more correctly, be shown to be not only people who are capable, intelligent and courageous but also friendly, loving and sexual. I also have no real problem with Kirk and the *Caitians being sexually *objectified*, ie given obvious sexuality.

We are also sexual beings and this appears to apply to human/vulcans and caitians. This is nothing to be ashamed of or something that gets hinted at so that the minions (many of them here) can render any such scenes with tasteless, silly, playground pussy jokes. They were old after 30 seconds.

Smike is also right about the birthrate in many western countries, especially among caucasions (ie white people). In the US, I believe the caucasian birthrate is at 1.6. In order to maintain a healthy population, the birthrate needs to be between 1.9 and 2.1. With Hispanics the birthrate is approx. 2.2.

The birthrate around the world has dropped. This has been necessary simply because the planet cannot sustain the numbers of people if the birthrates were to remain as high as they were 50/100 years ago. This is no brainer really. I doubt anyone is disputing this.

However, in places like India, China, some Middle Eastern and African countries, the male/female ratio is not that good. There are actually more males than females, unlike here in the English speaking western world. In China and India, the fewer females has been because of the availability of both ultrasound technology and abortion. China’s one-child family policy has meant that many couples will opt for aborting any female feotuses, until a male child is conceived. Similar is happening in many parts of India, even though in both countries, they say that this is not legal. The centuries of patriarchal and misogynist attitudes of those societies has meant that these countries have by and large turned a blind eye to these illegal operations. Moreover, girls have less chance of reaching the age of 5 because they are more likely to be denied good nutrition, health care etc, than boys are.

In China, there are now as many as 55 million young males who have little or no chance of ever getting a one-night stand with a female, let alone finding a wife. So we now have in China, alone, millions of young testosterone driven, aggressive, horny males. Some lucky ones might be gay, but what about the rest?

What does this mean for the young female child? Well, for a start, they are in a minority. Minorities tend to have little voice but can be subject to abuses of all kinds. Women in the west here are clearly much better off and there is no way I would want to see the clock turned back on many of the strides women here have made in terms of equality. However, the female position in these other countries is anything but wonderful at all. For many, just the right to be born and grow is something they cannot be assured of, simply because their chromosomes and XX and not XY.

All in all, I do think that some of these complaints like sexual objectification of women in terms of movies made in the west for mostly western audiences where the populations are at least 50% female do get a little tiresome at times. For me, it is especially *off* when I think of what it is like to be born a female in many of these other countries, if they are allowed to be born at all.

I guess it is a question of perspective.

66. Keachick - March 12, 2013

#60 – Yep, that’s gotta be it. LOL!

67. P - March 12, 2013

If its Kirk brother then the film is a tear jerker and that would make the film a non collectable…

68. Chancellor Gowron - March 12, 2013

Why is everyone convinced that the villain is either Kahn or Gary Mitchell? It is probably Harcourt Preston Mudd, but in this timeline his crimes are a bit worse than selling wives to colonists, or taking over an android planet, or selling a love potion to cartoon Nurse Chapel. In this timeline, Harry Mudd is a terrorist, who sometimes disguises himself as a Bajoran women (as seen in the Countown to Darkness comics). Also, he shaved off his stupid mustache, and he’s British.

69. dmduncan - March 12, 2013

Hey, do we know why there’s a female Bajoran MUDD yet? Is that Harry’s wife, or something?

Because if they somehow found an acceptable way to change Mudd from a human male to a Bajoran female, all bets are off as to the ID of this Harrison cat.

Need good data to make good extrapolations, otherwise, crap in, crap out.

70. GroktheSpock - March 12, 2013

By that last quote, the Klingons better not have ridges. That’s sadly the only thing I’m worried about.

71. Sybok's Secret Brother - March 12, 2013

He’s robot Roger Corby… duh!

72. sean - March 12, 2013

#70

Prepare to be disappointed.

73. Starshipcaptain - March 12, 2013

Well, I guess we shouldn’t check back here after the European premier (or anywhere else on the web, for that matter) cause you know the secret will be out long before the US premier! … IF you wanna be surprised :)

74. njdss4 - March 12, 2013

This reeks of Dark Knight Rises story ripoff. Talia al’Ghul all over again, except Harrison turns out to be Khan.

75. Chris Roberts - March 12, 2013

Perhaps the name John Harrison was chosen to have some meaning.

He was an 18th Century British clockmaker, who invented a watch that could correctly establish the longitudinal position of a vessel at sea. Before such a device, following a coastline was the only safe way to navigate. Sailors could calculate the latitude (how far a ship is from the equator) by observing the stars, but many disasters occured travelling west or east because they had no accurate sea clock. Before John Harrison’s invention, they calculated longitude through a system called Dead Reckoning, which was based on a previous charted position (or fix) and errors built up due to non-exact measurements of speed and direction.

76. Trawler - March 12, 2013

Gotta be Q

77. YankeeWhite - March 12, 2013

I think they got that Lindelof quote wrong. Should read:
“You’re Kirk, you’re Spock, you’re Uhura…”

78. DeShonn Steinblatt - March 12, 2013

Still a bit peeved that Egypt will know he’s Khan a week before we do.

79. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

I wish there was a worldwide release at the same time, there must be a reason why they don’t do that.

80. Trekkiegal63 - March 12, 2013

#47 Smike:

You know I don’t believe in ad hominem use in my responses to people. I try my hardest to reply using a logically framed argument, even though I’ve met my share of people on this site who have tried my patience. But when I read your post I saw RED. In fact, I took a step back, made dinner, poured a glass of wine, and I STILL see fire.

That is the most despicable, hate-filled, untrue, blatantly wrong, and undeniably sexist piece of crap I have EVER read on this site. Congratulations, you’ve just ranked as the as the lowest of the low.

Do you even know what the definition of feminism is?

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.

Strangely no where in that description seems to encompass any type of description *you* attributed to a feminist.

From your post #39: Yes, they use their charms domineeringly but when it comes to PC they sue you over neglecting equal rights. They call you “sexist” while still being fully aware of their ultimate power over you. Yeah, those females who are attrictive are quite grateful towards destiny for enabeling them with sheer unlimited powers.

What?! Hasty Generalization much? Do you realized that you just claimed that women go around flaunting themselves, using their bodies for ‘unlimited powers’?! Did you even read what you wrote?! I guess a women’s body is capable of robbing you of freewill then? Wow, wasn’t aware we had that power. BTW: the only person responsible for how you react to things is yourself. It’s called self-accountability, look it up!

In addition: this is the most uneducated bit of nonsense I have ever read. In fact, psychologist who are members of the American Psychological Association, thus have the education and experience to actually know what they’re talking about? They claim that the exact opposite is true, that women are so used to being objectified by media that they, in turn, learn to objectify themselves, thus why women are harsher judges of their appearance and why things like anorexia are rampart. From a paper published by the APA on sexual objectification:

Objectification theory posits that SO of
females is likely to contribute to mental health problems that disproportionately
affect women (i.e., eating disorders, depression, and sexual dysfunction) via
two main paths. The first path is direct and overt and involves SO experiences.
The second path is indirect and subtle and involves women’s internalization of
SO experiences or self-objectification (Fredrickson & Roberts, 1997).
Fredrickson and Roberts (1997) asserted that women to varying degrees
internalize this outsider view and begin to self-objectify by treating them-
selves as an object to be looked at and evaluated on the basis of appearance.

Another little gem of yours:

Now we’ve got women’s officers

Yes, its horrid isn’t, women wanting to serve their country, why of all the nerve! (<-sarcasm). It's unclear to me why you're a Star Trek fan because you see, there are female officers in Trek. In fact, there is a female captain. BTW, women can do any job they want. The fact that you don't like that they can? That's called sexism, of which you are a gross offender.

And yet another bit of utter ridiculousness you spouted:

They’re screaming for the banishment of any kind of sexualisation, counteracting sexual liberation that actually helped them in finding their legs in society

No, we are not screaming against consensual relations between two adults. We don’t want be objectified. There is a difference. Look it up. Also, sexual liberation is not what gave women ‘legs’ in society. It was women like Susan B. Anthony who fought for the female right to vote, and Elizabeth Blackwell, the first female American doctor.

You have no idea what you are talking about, that much is clear.

81. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

hey bob, I hope that cat scene doesn’t offend trekkiegal63 or you are in for a tongue lashing hehe i kid

Sometimes, people need not to take things so literal and just chill. Did I get offended when Sulu couldn’t drive the Enterprise? It is ok to laugh and not be so pc all the time.

82. Optimistic Doodle - March 12, 2013

The mystery may not be so much his name, but JH’s origin story & place on the chess board. Who’s up the ‘John Harrison torpedo’ ladder?

Must admit, I do like the Khan/Lore breadcrumbs.

83. chrisfawkes.com - March 12, 2013

It won’t be Khan as they can’t kill Khan off without erasing TWOK.

The next film may be a threat but wont be a single angry alien.

The Borg for the next film would be terrific but only if Kirk and Spock find out a way to totally annihilate them by the end of the movie.

Of course that would mean no Borg in the next gen era but who really cares.

84. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

When the writers were writing the script, their biggest struggle was to decide if they should do Khan. I believe they were 50-50 in wanting to do it. I believe the secrecy has to be due to the fact that it is Khan.

Take a look at who they wanted to cast BDT, but when they landed Cumberbatch something changed, something has been revised in the script, origns, background, something.

Boborci was on trekmovie.com one night months back or a year back giving us followers hints about Khan. I believe they did do a original Khan story but somehow they tailored it to fit Cumberbatch.

My gut says it is Khan but everything and all the facts shows it can be something else also, so the game is a foot.

85. Vulcan Soul - March 12, 2013

They already pissed all over 40 years of canon when they decided to destroy one of the central planets and races of the Star Trek lore, so why bother to get it right this time? This stuff is “Star Trek” in name only, a cheap imitation.

86. taong_gagamba - March 12, 2013

Trailer showing Cumberbatch in stasis…

http://villagecinemas.com.au/Movies/Star-Trek-Into-Darkness.htm

Sorry if this has been seen before. First time I saw it.

Khan? An augment?

87. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

#86

That is a fan made trailer

88. taong_gagamba - March 12, 2013

#87 well then Village Cinema should not use that in their official website.

89. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

Part 3 should be a full on 3hr exploration space movie that not only explores space but every character coupled with a moral and ethical dilemma and with a 10min reveal of the refitted enterprise.

No more angry peeps blowing sh$t up :)

Maybe talk about how earth used to belong to another galaxy that was swallowed up by the Milky Way which in effect killed life on earth ie dinosaurs, life on mars and created the asteroid belt and ended the rule of the Draconians.

90. Robert Oyler - March 12, 2013

It is Khan!!! Besides all the shout outs to Wrath of Khan and Space Seed…
just look up the history of Khan Noonien Singh on Wikepedia…
he was originally writen as a white guy from Norway. He was a Nordic Superhuman named…Harold Erricsen…but in the very first draft of the script he was called John Erricsen…John Herrisen…John Harrison…
Your Welcome..lol

91. somethoughts - March 12, 2013

#88

Sucks to be Village Cinema webmaster

92. taong_gagamba - March 12, 2013

#91 snicker

93. Robert Oyler - March 12, 2013

but dont just take my word for it…
J.J. Abrams hinted that because of the alternate timeline created in the first film, reintroducing Khan into Star Trek lore remained a possibility. Abrams told MTV, “[Khan and Kirk] exist — and while their history may not be exactly as people are familiar with, I would argue that a person’s character is what it is,” Abrams said of the notion that his Khan could be just as evil, even if Kirk never stranded him on Ceti Alpha V. “Certain people are destined to cross paths and come together, and Khan is out there… even if he doesn’t have the same issues.”

94. DisgruntledTrekkie - March 12, 2013

Honoring 40+ years of canon, Damon?
Don’t you mean pissing all over it?

95. Keachick - March 12, 2013

#75 Yes, I have read that. Perhaps this character John Harrison is somehow based on this other Harrison and has something to do with say the development of technology that allows the Enterprise to be water worthy as well. It could make an interesting homage…

96. Buzz Cagney - March 12, 2013

#12 they have been awesome at keeping secrets. I still haven’t got a clue how Kirk went from cadet to Captain of the flagship!

97. MJ - March 13, 2013

“Lindelof went on to say he is going to great lengths to keep the secret, even from collaborators on other secret projects.”

I still don’t get the point in going through such lengths to keep this huge secret, when the market that is going to provide AT LEAST 50% of the box office receipts (i.e. the U.S.A.) will be seeing this a week later than many other countries — thus, this secret will be out the bag by the time the majority of us who post here on Trekmovie.com see it.

So, what is the point in the all the secrecy then???

PS: This article certainly keeps a Khan-centric story in play, and several of us have been postulating.

98. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

#96

I thought he got promoted because he saved the enteprise, sulu, pike, earth, graduated early, defeated the km test and was awarded the highest honor at the end of the film. Did I miss something? He also killed off the Henchman and the main villain and saved the enterprise again and I think he did a bit better than his father…sometimes promotions happen in the field due to exemplary work.

99. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

#97

The secrecy is so that the old timer trekkies don’t have a stroke if they found out the new movie is about Khan.

100. JP - March 13, 2013

Much like NuBSG had human looking cylons, Cumberbatch will be playing a human looking Nomad :)

101. Jack - March 13, 2013

“…there’s something more to John Harrison.”

No shit.

102. MJ - March 13, 2013

@101

Khaaaaaaaaaan!

Khaaaaaaaaaan!

Khaaaaaaaaaan!

:-))

103. RAO - March 13, 2013

99. Or the Nubies don’t have a heart attack if the movie has an original plot or villain.

104. MJ - March 13, 2013

I think DM Duncan’s hybrid solution is the correct one — and this still preserves the essence of those of us who have been saying Khan would be involved for the past two years now. So this means a major Khan connection to Harrison. And don’t be surprised on seeing a brief Khan scene and/or them setting the stage for Khan being the main baddie in Trek 2016.

105. MJ - March 13, 2013

@98 “I thought he got promoted because he saved the enteprise, sulu, pike, earth, graduated early, defeated the km test and was awarded the highest honor at the end of the film. Did I miss something?”

Saving the entire Federation worlds — 4 trillion people — never impressed Buzz much concerning Kirk’s promotion. That just didn’t cut it for him.

Buzz is more of a “save me a quadrillion and then will talk” kind of guy.

LOL

106. J - March 13, 2013

Harrison is Gorn, period.

107. Jemini - March 13, 2013

I care about the main characters of the crew not who the villain is (would be amazing if the plot twist is that he’s somehow related to one of the main characters tho)
I agree that we shouldn’t know it before the characters know so I’m totally fine about not knowing who he really is, I get why such a spoiler would ruin things.

108. Commodore Decker - March 13, 2013

@ 93 Your Theory makes a lot of Sense to me!!!

As we all know, they tried to cast an Latino Actor for the Role in the first Place!
So after the Negotiations with Del Toro and Co. failed, they took Cumberbatch and switched to the original plot treatment from the 60’s where Khan is an infamous European Augment from the Past who hides his true Identity under the Alias “John Harrison”!!!

109. EM - March 13, 2013

@ 83. chrisfawkes.com – March 12, 2013

“It won’t be Khan as they can’t kill Khan off without erasing TWOK.”

Sure they can. It can’t erase what doesn’t exist in this time line.

I remember sitting in one of the Trek moives in the “80s. I don’t recall which one. The Enterprise went to warp whatever, apparently in some sort of nebula. I heard someone in the theatre declare that the Enterprise can’t travel at those speeds in a nebula. And, such as with your statement, I thought : It can if the screenwriter and director says it can. This is science fiction, not an empirical, scientific study of the feasability of warp speed.
Just enjoy the ride, man!

@106 – Gorn, I like it. But, he’s obviously a genetically augmented Kahn Gorn!

110. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

#105

LOL

111. Jay - March 13, 2013

#83 IF it is Khan, no one said he has to die at the end of this movie. He could simply be imprisoned, in a similar way as in Space Seed.

I have gone back and forth, and at this point I’ve decided to stop trying to figure it out. I’ll just see the movie and see what happens.

However, IF he is Khan…… I was watching SkyFall the other day… and man, all I kept thinking was how PERFECT Javier Bardom (sp?) would have been as Khan. He seemed made for the role. Not only is he a brilliant actor, but he has the gravitas that Maltabon had…. he can so easily and completely portray that supremely intelligent, and yet completely evil persona. He is just amazing. All I saw during that whole movie was Khan.

That will be my biggest disapointment IF Cumberbatch is Khan… that it wasn’t Javier playing him.

Sometimes I think, maybe Cumberbatch isn’t Khan… and maybe the 3rd movie will be about Khan…. maybe Cumberbatch’s charater is in some way related to Khan… and somehow leads to Khan’s discovery at the end of the movie. At least then we could hope that Javier would join the cast for the 3rd movie.

112. Do You Wanna Dance - March 13, 2013

You guys got it all wrong. His real identity has been under your noses the whole time.

If you rearrange the letter’s in John Harrison’s name, you’ll get Rijhrnhnoosa.

113. Dad of 8, Grampa of 6(so far) - March 13, 2013

“The birthrate around the world has dropped. This has been necessary simply because the planet cannot sustain the numbers of people if the birthrates were to remain as high as they were 50/100 years ago. This is no brainer really. I doubt anyone is disputing this.”

Simple math: The entire population of the world can physically fit within the boundaries of the city of Jacksonville, FL. No room to move but can be done.

Even taking into account all the man-made “stuff” (roads, buildings, etc.), there is still plenty of land area for population growth and supporting that growth.

I did the math cuz it sounded interesting and proved for myself that “over-population” is a lie.

114. Jay - March 13, 2013

#113 Completely off topic…. but I think the real issue with over-population (which I agree we haven’t gotten to yet) is the amount of land needed to support human population, in terms of food production. I don’t know the numbers, but there is a certain amount of land (for crops and livestock) per human being that is needed. At some point, the population over-takes the available land to support that population.

There is also the issue of land being used for infrastructure, polution disposal, etc. etc. And add in the factor that only a certain amount of land on the face of the earth is suitable for these things.

115. Classy M - March 13, 2013

111 – Jay, I think you just got some sort of record for most mentions of ‘Khan’ in one post.

But don’t you think you should at least check out Cumberbatch’s performance before you declare yourself so disappointed with his casting?

116. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

Very tall buildings and underground complexes, the world can sustain a much larger population given the amount of vertical space.

Do the math, size of earth, space available both vertical and horizontal, we haven’t reached critical population by a long shot.

117. LWR - March 13, 2013

does anyone want a Pizza Roll?

118. Commodore Adams - March 13, 2013

Oooo its been officially revealed, in this day and age what the hell does that mean when people lie through their teeth. Ok fine, the more mystery the better, I want to go in not knowing much its the fun of a movie. But it was said he is canon, there has never been a John Harrison in trek b4. I still believe John Harrison is a code name like John Doe.

Compared to the 2009, Into Darkness has been much more secretive, so congrats to that.

119. Commodore Bob - March 13, 2013

Okay, I’m going to spoil it all with the absolute truth, John Harrison is really…………JANICE LESTER!

;)

120. Jay - March 13, 2013

#115 Ha. Maybe.

As for Cumberbatch. I think he is a very good actor from what I have seen of him. But to me Javier just fits the image of Khan so much more completely. Plus he has played some really evil guys that I think he would really bring a level of credibility to the bad guy role in Star Trek.

Nothing against Cumberbatch. While he could be Khan… who knows… but he doesn’t really fit my image of Khan because of who played Khan originally. While I could accept it, Khan needs to have some degree of ethnicity just for the simple fact of who played him originally.

Yes you can change it. yes this is a movie and not reality. I get all that. But I think even casual fans would have that expectation based on Space Seed and/or TWOK.

121. steve - March 13, 2013

#16 – Like your theory… it’s as good as any that I’ve heard, and he would be a cannon character.

122. Classy M - March 13, 2013

#120 – I’m not saying Javier wouldn’t be a great Khan, but right we don’t have enough information to voice an opinion. We don’t know if Khan is a character in the film, nor do we know what sort of job Cumberbatch has done. Isn’t it wiser to reserve judgement until all the facts are in?

123. Mad Mann - March 13, 2013

I disagree with Lindelof, Orci, Abrams, and everyone else about “spoilers.”

There was a study done once that proved that knowing more about a story actually heightened the enjoyment of it.

“Story Spoilers Don’t Spoil Stories” From Psychological Science journal

PROOF: http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/08/09/0956797611417007

124. Mad Mann - March 13, 2013

Sorry, here’s a link to a pdf that you don’t have to pay for:

http://psy2.ucsd.edu/~nchristenfeld/Publications_files/Spoilers.pdf

It’s a short article, but very enlightening.

125. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

The secrecy is due to what happened in empires strikes back with the big reveal that Darth Vador was Lukes father, the aliases in the dark knight rises with both robin and tals daugther and the fact that this villain is so very controversial and the director is JJ Abrams.

Shakes magic 8 ball, “all signs point to…”

126. Doogie - March 13, 2013

I thought the big rumour was that Picard’s life was altered by the whole time travel thing from the last movie and he ended up being a villain hell bent on destroying kirk. He travels back in time to punish Kirk for changing his life. The “event” from the trailer happens in London, and he does sound a bit British. or did that rumour get squashed earlier? (I pray it did. You cannot turn Picard into a Villian)

127. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

#126

Picard is a french character played by a British actor with a British accent.

128. Spiked Canon - March 13, 2013

*Spoiler I haven’t heard from Digital Spy********************************************************************************************************************************************************

The first half hour carries a significant death toll. Scores of anonymous Londoners and Starfleet employees bite the dust, along with (highlight for character death spoilers) Peter Weller’s Admiral Marcus, who’s the father of Alice Eve’s Carol. And at the point where we left off, things weren’t looking too good for Captain Pike either…

129. Curious Cadet - March 13, 2013

@75. Chris Roberts,
“Perhaps the name John Harrison was chosen to have some meaning.”

Possibly, these guys tend to enjoy esoteric connections. On the other hand, they just named the planet Kirk was marooned on in the last movie Delta Vega, just because.

So who knows. John Harrison was the name of Tom Hardy’s character in the movie This Means War which also starred Chris Pine. Of course Hardy played the Romulan clone of the captain of the Enterprise in Nemasis. So maybe there’s a connection, or maybe it’s a name they picked out of a hat.

Maybe Orci’s trying to tell us that Harrison is a clone.

130. Robman007 - March 13, 2013

@94..wow. really? Get a life or something…pissing over cannon? Really? Overly dramatic fan boy antics. Seriously, get a life. I don’t think I heard complaining like that when TNG (especially First Contant) “pissed all over” cannon…

The quicker folks realize that old school Trek will never come back, the better life will be.

FOR…A…FILM….TO…BE…SUCCESSFUL….AND…A…NEW…FILM..OR…EVEN..A…TV…SHOW…TO…COME…ABOUT…THESE…NEW…FILMS…HAVE…TO…BE…MADE…FOR…EVERYBODY!!! It’s not rocket science. It’s how smart film making works. You CANNOT make a film for Trek fans alone that involves finding some strange world populated by unisex beings who want to know what it’s like to be human. Good luck getting a new flim with that sorta TV show plot. Seeking out adventure and sci-fi discovery just will not work nowadays….and even if Trek comes back to TV, it will NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER be the same as before. Just face the facts and move on.

These films are not old school trek, and that’s a good thing. Old school Trek was beginning to kill the franchise and even fans started to not watch. A little shake up is not a bad thing.

It’s not rocket science. Quit with the overdramatic fan boy crying. It gets old after a while, especially when everyone knows that those who cry, whine and complain about the new films will be the first in line to see the films and secretly enjoy said films….just stop. It’s getting old.

131. Michael - March 13, 2013

Harrison is not connected to Khan. Harrison is Khan.

132. Curious Cadet - March 13, 2013

@104. MJ,
“don’t be surprised on seeing a brief Khan scene and/or them setting the stage for Khan being the main baddie in Trek 2016.”

I have it on good authority that there is a threesome between Khan, Harrison and Joaquin at the end of the movie where they discuss Khan’s plan of attack during post coital pillow talk. Harrison manages to escape death by Kirk, but then Khan and Joaquin kill him for his failure after a final roll in the hay. Then they call in Kati to join them in bed, because people only have threesomes in the mid-23rd century. /s

133. Trekkiegal63 - March 13, 2013

#116 somethoughts:

As Jay indicated, its not a matter of space for fitting people, its the land mass (and water quantity) necessary in which to grow food. From this article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/nov/11/thisweekssciencequestions1

Joel Cohen, the Rockefeller University population biologist, argues in a 1995 book (How Many People can the Earth Support?) that it isn’t a question like “How old are you?” which only has one answer at any one time. Cohen argues that you could fit one billion people each a metre apart, into a field 32km square. So everybody in the world would fit easily into Yorkshire. But it takes 900 tonnes of water to grow a tonne of wheat, and there is only so much water, so much land and so much sunshine. Human action has its own “ecological footprint”; there has to be so much land to provide food, clothing, shelter, medicines, building material, fresh air and clean water for any one human. It takes, according to some calculations, 2.1 hectares of land and water to provide for one average human. The important word is: average. The American footprint is about 10 hectares. So if all humans lived at US standards, we’d need another four Earths.

…so unless your tall buildings can produce water and/or wheat, your argument ‘holds no water’. ;)

134. DisgruntledTrekkie - March 13, 2013

130. Why don’t you quit sucking up to TIIC aka the “Supreme Count”
What an arrogant nickname they gave themselves.
I’ll move on when they grow some balls and just admit they just put in that BS with the red matter to pacify long time fans and they aren’t really fans themselves. And no I won’t go see this piece of garbage.

135. Curious Cadet - March 13, 2013

@111 Jay,
“That will be my biggest disapointment IF Cumberbatch is Khan… that it wasn’t Javier playing him.”

As will I. I just think Khan is wasted on the pieces of the story I have seen to date. In fact, all we’ve really seen is Really is Kirk’s opening mission directly related to a Prime Directive story, And Harrison attacking the Federation. and we’ve seen a little bit involving the Klingons. All of this amounts to about :30 of the 2:30 movie. Now I know they have two hours to play with, but based on the current conjecture they have a lot of complicated ground to cover:

1) They have to explain why Harrison is upset.
2) they have to introduce us to Carol Marcus
3) they have to introduce us to Admiral Marcus
4) they have to explain Admiral Marcus’ connection to the Prime Directive
5) they have to explain Adm Marcus’ connection to April
6) they have to explain who April is
7) perhaps they have to introduce us to April
8) they have to explain April’s connection to the prime directive
9) they have to explain Kirk’s connection to April
10) they have to explain Who Khan is
11) they have to explain Khan’s connection to Harrison and/or Adm. Marcus and/or April or all of them.
12) they have to introduce us to Khan, or One or more of his men.
13) they have to explain the connection to the Klingons
14) then they have to explore and develop the relationships between Spock & Uhura
15) Spock & Kirk
16) Kirk and bones
17) Kirk and Pike
18) and try to give us a little more than they did in the last movie about Scotty, Sulu, Chekov, and Keenser (yeah they didn’t have enough to do without adding in another principal character).
19) then they have to tell a story full of space battles, land battles, etc.
20) oh yeah, almost forgot, they may have to introduce A female Mudd!

This is why I’m doubtful the film will be as convoluted as many around here suggest. It took an entire episode of Star Trek to properly introduce Khan, and these guys are going to do it and tell a story involving all of these other elements as well? It’s just too much. Combined with the fact that they would be telling a story about or involving Khan, without Khan. Even if its a setup for the next film and Harrison is not actually Khan, it’s still a lot of complicated information to disseminate.

136. With Fans Like These... - March 13, 2013

He’s Khan. It’s obvious. It’s been obvious all along. I can’t wait til the day of the premiere to see all the “I told you so posts” and all the posts from those still defending their incorrect assumptions for the last three years, since this debate began.

137. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

#133

Self sustaining buildings, technology will allow for that :)

138. Jack - March 13, 2013

112. Awesome.

139. steve - March 13, 2013

With the international openings pulled up a week, I seriously doubt any of us in the US will now be able to go into the theater “unspoiled” as to Harrison’s identity. Not unless we move into a cave a week prior to 5/17.

140. Mcflycat - March 13, 2013

I still believe John Harrison was one of the other 4 rulers in the Eugenics wars per the “Federation first 150 years” book. Kahn ruled Asia, John Harrison ruled Europe, the crazy religious leader that ruled North America, and the guy who ruled South America. The never said their names specifically so it would be Canon, but not explored yet, which would be great. When you see the sleeping chambers in the trailer they appear to be underground with brick walls. My Theory, Khan hid in space after the war, John Harrison hid underground on Earth.

141. Curious Cadet - March 13, 2013

@65 Keachick,
“This is nothing to be ashamed of or something that gets hinted at so that the minions (many of them here) can render any such scenes with tasteless, silly, playground pussy jokes. They were old after 30 seconds”

You’re right, it is nothing to be ashamed of in the real world. But you are dismissing the sophomoric jokes as if they don’t apply to this situation. It is a scene in a movie, not real life. While you are free to conclude it was included to celebrate human sexuality in the future as it should be today, the fact remains it is being included in a film that will be received with contemporary mores , and most likely included with that eye in mind.

It is hard for me to believe given the women are of feline origin that this was anything more than a cheap joke conceived by teenage minds in adult Hollywood producer’s bodies. After all this script was written by the same screenwriters who gave us the first two Transformers movies, complete with flatulating robot jokes. This kind of sight gag is not beyond them. It also likewise serves as an homage to the dated, sexists stereotype mythos created in the cultural climate of the sixties which also mis-represents who Kirk actually was. So far, it’s hard for me to take this seriously. Perhaps seeing the scene in context will change my mind.

But honestly, this is not a white man kissing a black woman on network TV for the first time. And if that’s what the producers had in mind, pushing the bounds of sexuality with modern audiences, why pick easily-ridiculed cat women in particular? Wouldn’t it have been taken more seriously with an Andorian even? These guys aren’t idiots. And they obviously aren’t so sophisticated they wouldn’t have realized how folks on Trekmovie would perceive it in the first dozen posts of its revelation. Combined with the knowledge they are targeting 13 year old boys with this movie, why keep such an easily lampooned scene in the film?

Because that’s exactly what they wanted to happen, at the expense of women everywhere, if not Jim Kirk’s reputation.

142. NuFan - March 13, 2013

Pay attention. Damon Lindelof just told you why all the secrecy. They don’t find out he’s Khan until the end.

143. Trekkiegal63 - March 13, 2013

#137 somethoughts:

As of now, we do not have that capability:

Article for you entitled “Why can’t we manufacture water?”:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/manufacture-water.htm

144. Robman007 - March 13, 2013

@ 134

I’m not sucking up to them. It just gets old listening to the overly dramatic whine and cheese show….you are right about one thing though. The red matter, alternate universe crap was made to try and keep long time fans from throwing tissy fits and not watching the film. It should have been a start from scratch remake. THEN you could say that John Harrison, an englishman, was Khan because the genetic supermen were all made in a western lab and let loose upon the world to try and control certain parts of the world, but it back fired.

Still, if you don’t like it and don’t plan on watching the new flim, then why are you here? Get over it. Old Trek is dead. Nothing from Trek that is released to general public will ever be old Trek. Old Trek killed itself with trash like Insurrection, Nemesis, Voyager and Enterprise. NOBODY outside of Trek fans watched that garbage, and even Trek fans started calling it what it was..garbage.

The new films may lean more towards action, but they capture the spirit of the Original Series, a relatively action orientated series, quite nicely…now if they would just understand that the trio is KIRK/SPOCK/MCCOY, not Kirk/Spock and his girlfriend, Uhura, then they’ll be set. THAT is getting annoying.

145. Curious Cadet - March 13, 2013

@142 NuFan,

If they indeed do this, it won’t mean a thing to the general audiences without a setup. When Lindelof first suggested putting the Botany Bay in the credits of the fest film, it was at the very end after the credits … Something just for the fans, and those few people who sit all the way through the credits in theaters. Something to get the fans excited.

But if they do it at the end of STID, they will have to explain it thoroughly for it to have any impact on the general audience. They wouldn’t just pull a big reveal that Harrison’s Khan, since nobody but the fans would have any idea what that means. So they will either have to set up Khan throughout the movie, in which case the fans will all know exactly what’s coming (surprise spoiled), or risk boring the general audience explaining a very convoluted backstory in the final moments of the film when excitement should be building to a climax.

Then again Abram’s keeps saying he’s not making Star Trek for the fans.

146. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

Indeed #143,

Recycling wastes, robotics, growing meat in labs, with the ability to manufacture water should be available now or in the near future.

I always believed technology will make our lives easier thus thrive and keep growing until wars reset everything and we are reduced to mars and moon type celestial object.

147. Curious Cadet - March 13, 2013

@37. John from Cincinnati,
“Why did Cumberbatch dye his hair black for the role?”

I used to think this might be a clue. Peggy darkens his hair to better match Scotty.

But I now think it has more to do with making Harrison darker and seem more sinister. Not that it couldn’t hint at is real identity. It does have the odd effect of making him seem extremely pale, much more so than he is in Sherlock. His lips are almost the exact same color as his skin. Indeed looking at him, he reminds me a lot of Data and looks not unlike Brent Spiner in that role. One has to wonder now that they have introduced “Mudd” in the comics whether Harrison is an android (it would explain a lot). Though as I have pointed out in the past, that would be an awfully hard trick to pull off in a post Nero Starfleet. Of course the Khan camp constantly reminds me that there would be sophisticated ways to circumvent identity verification systems by the bad guys, specifically Khan, so maybe this isn’t such a stretch.

148. Dr. Image - March 13, 2013

Just hope the Harrison “reveal” isn’t a huge, eye-rolling letdown.

149. NuFan - March 13, 2013

“Then again Abrams keeps saying he’s not making Star Trek for the fans.”

And yet the fans still won’t accept this. Just how honest do they have to be before the fans will accept that they are not more important than everybody else that PAYS for a ticket?

150. Jack - March 13, 2013

Sometimes I wonder if they initially did intend Delta Vega to be the same Isolated planet as TOS. I don’t wonder it often, I’m usually more worried about paying my mortgage — or trying to remember the difference between white and black smoke…

Interesting ent. news about a studio using kickstarter to try to make a Veronica Mars movie — is it ethical to take bigger donations from people without giving them a corresponding (minuscule?) chunk of the profits or other compensation?

151. Trekkiegal63 - March 13, 2013

#146 somethoughts:

Recycling wastes, robotics, growing meat in labs, with the ability to manufacture water should be available now or in the near future.

Speaking as someone who works in clinical trials and knows more about FDA guidelines than I want to know, once that kind of technology is developed (which is questionable at this point), it will still take years to pass regulation. Thus my original point remains. The world’s population as of right now, with the current technology we have in use, is by definition, overpopulated when considering population to land-mass to farming and water ratio.

However, I agree with you on one thing… the ability to manufacture food and water in a lab would be nice.

152. ewplayer3 - March 13, 2013

@139 steve…

That’s exactly what I intend to do; hide in a cave for that week and then go to the theater with ear plugs and employ a see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil tactic. I want to know nothing about Harrison’s identity prior to my arrival and I’ll do anything I can to make that happen

153. Jack - March 13, 2013

“4) they have to explain Admiral Marcus’ connection to the Prime Directive”

Do they? The audience, arguably, doesn’t need to know this to get what’s going on. Apparently the guy is more lenient to Kirk (possibly because of Marcus’s history with April and maybe –we’ll see in the comics– because of Kirk’s experiences with April) — does it necessarily matter why that is? It might.

That may be what the comics are doing — adding a little backstory to the characters in the film and doing a bitofforeshadowing/setting up… but not actually startingthreads that will bedirectly picked up in the movie or need explaining.

North could be April (in a holo, in person? In a flashback?) but who knows? If he’s present-day April, he’s a good 20 years younger than the character.

A lot of this stuff might not have to be explained onscreen — in Trek 09 all we knew was that Pike was a Captain, that McCoy was a divorced Doctor etc.

154. DFC1 - March 13, 2013

A young Robert April

155. Marja - March 13, 2013

Oh, GAD, the Khan talk AGAIN??! Please stop, I’m bored

Maybe …

Kirk is startled by Harrison’s appearance because he knows Harrison [or whoever he really is] is dead in the original timeline. Remember, he had a whole mind-meld with Spock, who experienced over !20 years of the original timeline …. this would depend heavily on the concept of “time streams flowing in generally the same way” unless Kirk cannot grasp that events change from timeline to timeline …

Any more than I can grasp Smike’s viewpoint in the modern era, but on second thought i guess folk with that axe to grind will be around for a long time. Look at Paul Ryan.

Yep, guess we feminists should all just be quiet about sexism, institutional and individual, about rape in the military, about the perpetuation of sexism in Hollywood, and so many other institutions, about the idea that feminists are destroying society because we won’t be good girls and get married and multiply “for the sake of civilization”. While I support devoted and caring parents, I have no desire to be a parent myself [and it's just as well, believe me]. I guess in Smike’s view I should be quiet because, like most feminists, I’m just so demmed irritating, insisting on living life free of male-imposed strictures and priveleged males’ bleating over having to live in modern society.

156. drumvan - March 13, 2013

i’m about ready for countdown to darkness #3. punch it!

157. MJ's Lover Anthony - March 13, 2013

“The identity of Benedict Cumberbatch’s Star Trek Into Darkness villain has been an obsession for fans”

No shit, that’s because Star Trek fans are nerds with no life.

158. Chris Roberts - March 13, 2013

148. Dr. Image – “Just hope the Harrison “reveal” isn’t a huge, eye-rolling letdown.”

Brace yourself.

He’s Admiral Archer… ;)

That transfusion of Klingon Augment DNA Phlox gave him had side-effects.

159. John from Cincinnati - March 13, 2013

157.

Mila Kunis is a Trekker. She’s a nerd with no life I suppose?

160. MJ - March 13, 2013

@132. LOL – outstanding!

161. Curious Cadet - March 13, 2013

@155 Marja,
“I guess in Smike’s view I should be quiet because…”

As near as I can surmise about Smike’s view, you in particular should be quiet because you likely dress like you’re “asking for it”, and then complain about getting raped.

162. Keachick - March 13, 2013

With the introduction of the contraceptive pill, men never had it so good.

163. Keachick - March 13, 2013

#161 – Non sequitur

164. Baby - March 13, 2013

Fascinating …………

There is something mysterious going on here. I believe a particular trek fan on this site has lived many lives in alternate realities.

It’s like for every social or let me say human issue brought up on this site, it seems like the person has a mysterious background in everything.

First of all, the person claims to work in the workforce so she knows a lot about sexism. The issue of sexism was discussed in the first countdown comic.

Secondly, the person also claims to have a military background so she knows a lot about when a person can date his subordinate in a military setting environment. I believe we also discussed this issue in star trek ongoing 18 article.

Lastly the person now has a background in working in clinics so she knows a lot about the impact of technology in a hospital environment.

I must say I am jealous.(NOT)

Am sure by the time treknews runs an article on one of NASA’s science fiction vs science facts topics, The person will also say that they have a background in space exploring so they understand exactly what NASA is talking about and we dont.

It’s fascinating…..

I am not naming names…so let the guilty conscience and attacks pour.

If you are not offended by anything I said there is no need to reply to my comment as I did not address it to anyone.

165. DiscoSpock - March 13, 2013

#183. It’s you call, Keachick, but given Anthony’s warning/probation for you, maybe you might just want to switch to another topic entirely? Just step away from the threesome discussion once and for all. I, for one, would love to have a discussion with you on any other topic than that one.

That is all I will say on this.

166. crazydaystrom - March 13, 2013

@135. Curious Cadet
” Even if its a setup for the next film and Harrison is not actually Khan, it’s still a lot of complicated information to disseminate.”

That’s quite an agenda you set up there CC and not all of it necessary IMO. But even at that, it’s not at all impossible to achieve. Will they do it? That remains to be seen. But it certainly IS doable. Interesting how many complain that ST09 was too simplistic and here you seem to be ‘complaining’ that STID could possibly be overly complicated.

As you know the new film WILL have things to criticize if we look for them but I’m betting we’re in for something special. And satisfying.

167. crazydaystrom - March 13, 2013

@145. Curious Cadet
“… they will have to explain it thoroughly for it to have any impact on the general audience…”

They ARE well aware that every film has to stand on its own even if it is a sequel or a part of a series of films. And JJ has stated as much.

161. Curious Cadet
“…you in particular should be quiet because you likely dress like you’re “asking for it”, and then complain about getting raped.”

WOW! Harsh, sir. Harsh and unnecessary.

168. Baby - March 13, 2013

135. Curious Cadet – March 13, 2013
@111 Jay,
“That will be my biggest disapointment IF Cumberbatch is Khan… that it wasn’t Javier playing him.”

As will I. I just think Khan is wasted on the pieces of the story I have seen to date. In fact, all we’ve really seen is Really is Kirk’s opening mission directly related to a Prime Directive story, And Harrison attacking the Federation. and we’ve seen a little bit involving the Klingons. All of this amounts to about :30 of the 2:30 movie. Now I know they have two hours to play with, but based on the current conjecture they have a lot of complicated ground to cover:

1) They have to explain why Harrison is upset.
2) they have to introduce us to Carol Marcus
3) they have to introduce us to Admiral Marcus
4) they have to explain Admiral Marcus’ connection to the Prime Directive
5) they have to explain Adm Marcus’ connection to April
6) they have to explain who April is
7) perhaps they have to introduce us to April
8) they have to explain April’s connection to the prime directive
9) they have to explain Kirk’s connection to April
10) they have to explain Who Khan is
11) they have to explain Khan’s connection to Harrison and/or Adm. Marcus and/or April or all of them.
12) they have to introduce us to Khan, or One or more of his men.
13) they have to explain the connection to the Klingons
14) then they have to explore and develop the relationships between Spock & Uhura
15) Spock & Kirk
16) Kirk and bones
17) Kirk and Pike
18) and try to give us a little more than they did in the last movie about Scotty, Sulu, Chekov, and Keenser (yeah they didn’t have enough to do without adding in another principal character).
19) then they have to tell a story full of space battles, land battles, etc.
20) oh yeah, almost forgot, they may have to introduce A female Mudd!

This is why I’m doubtful the film will be as convoluted as many around here suggest. It took an entire episode of Star Trek to properly introduce Khan, and these guys are going to do it and tell a story involving all of these other elements as well? It’s just too much. Combined with the fact that they would be telling a story about or involving Khan, without Khan. Even if its a setup for the next film and Harrison is not actually Khan, it’s still a lot of complicated information to disseminate
—————————————————————————————————

You hit the nail on the head. This has been my one big worry for this film. It’s like there is so much going on and the film is only 129 minutes long, includes the end credits.

If you take away the end credit it will mean that the film is about 2 hours long or a little above that.

I just don’t see how they can put in everything you mentioned in a 2 hours story.

I wish the film was 2 hours 45 minutes or exactly 3 hours.

169. Keachick - March 13, 2013

I feel that coming here sometimes is like being a moth to a flame. The moth is drawn even though there is a good chance that it will get burnt.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post, Curious Cadet.

I have said all I can say about the controversial scene in question. People can agree or disagree. I mean, I have no power over what they think of the issue or of me.

I always end up being the one to say sorry, even though I am not altogether sure, sometimes, what it is I am supposed to be sorry about. Perhaps that is the default mechanism engaged by an emotionally abused (bullied) person (child). When I stand and fight, I sometimes end up being the abuser/bully, or at the very least, that is how I am quickly labeled, often by people banding themselves together…

170. Joey B - March 13, 2013

Xon.

171. Phil - March 13, 2013

@96. Nah, all cadets who get caught cheating and almost expelled from the Academy get their own starships. That explains why they are so easy to steal….

172. Joey B - March 13, 2013

It’s Xon.

Been sayin’ it for a while.

173. dmduncan - March 13, 2013

The one thing that bugs me is not knowing yet how they came up with a blonde bajoran female Mudd.

If that’s Harry Mudd (as opposed to being his wife or an identity thief), then whatever logical premise they came up with to turn him from a large balding man to a blonde bajoran woman could conceivably be used to turn Khan into a powder blue colored brit, although I don’t see the point in doing that.

You can’t have your caterpiller and butterfly him too.

If they butterfly Khan into some new unrecognizable form, then he’s technically not Khan anymore even if there’s some genetic connection between them, and nothing says “unrecognizable form” better than Benedict Cumberbatch.

And it’s difficult for me to see the advantage of doing that other than for shock value to existing fans.

I don’t think it will work if they try to have it both ways, that is, if they try to have the caterpiller and the butterfly at the same time, if they try to say he’s not-Khan and Khan at the same time.

Even if they followed their own MWI premise Khan would have to be the same in both universes, because the alternate is a copy of the original until Nero’s incursion, which therefore means Khan exists the same way in both universes. So then you’d have to come up with a way of radically altering the character after Nero’s incursion. You know, he gets a racelift as opposed to a facelift.

But I’m having real trouble seeing the value in that except, as I said, as some kind of shock. But it worries me because it may not work out that way.

The ID mystery they are keeping could conceivably turn out to become an ID crisis that just doesn’t have impact because Harrison is too pseudo-Khan to reap the value of the Khan brand.

I mean, imagine if you bought a can of coke and popped it open to find sprite?

You might get some blowback for that.

Not only do you have to give us the clues to be ABLE to conclude the mystery ourselves, but the solution to the mystery itself has to be credible. It can’t be ridiculous (if ridiculousness is not the tone of the movie, and I think I can safely say that its tone will not be that).

So they’re making me bite my nails.

174. Phil - March 13, 2013

@96.
Starfleet Admiral: Cadet Kirk, you have been charged with unauthorized access to Starfleet simulators, damage to Starfleet property, assult, attempted mutiny, failure to meet academic standards, and corruption of a fellow cadet. Normally, this is 10 years at a Federation prision colony, a fine, and a dishonorable discharge, but hell, Captain Pike isn’t feeling to good right now, so we are going to promote you to Captain and assign you to Enterprise…if that’s okay with you?
Kirk: Hell yeah!!
Starfleet Admiral: We’d like you to train for six months on the USS Vader….
Kirk: What!!??!! I want Enterprise NOW!!!
Starfleet Admiral:…..oh, okay. Sorry. Didn’t mean to upset you.
Kirk: That’s more like it, now go get that Yeoman Rand to make me a sandwich. And the mini skirt is the uniform of the day now….

175. dmduncan - March 13, 2013

For example, remember The Sixth Sense? Everything you needed to figure out that the character was himself a ghost was there. The ending was so good and effectively shocking because you MISS all the clues at the time they are given.

AND the ending is credible because we spend the whole movie learning that yes, ghosts exist and this little boy talks to them.

But imagine if the entire movie had been spent making you believe that ghosts do NOT exist? To be hit with the news that the main character is himself a ghost in THAT case would be to cheat your audience.

For what you do to be a TRICK you have to allow your audience the ability to spot the trick. It’s only a trick when they have the ability to spot it and do NOT.

176. dmduncan - March 13, 2013

Now we ALL I think have seen the Khan references for a very long time. They’re so blatant that it would be hard to characterize a hypothetical unmasking of John Harrison as Khan as a trick.

It would be more like an anti trick.

Or, it would be a trick in the sense that nobody thinks that he’s Khan because the references are so obvious in the context of a secrecy that they are maintaining and which we therefore have to explain, so then you take the obviousness of the references to conceal the fact that he IS Khan.

But that’s more teasing that trickery. I don’t think that would go down well because in the end it would not be a surprise to do that sort of double-back deceivery. It would be disappointing because after all this secrecy to get a discovery that is really not all that surprising is not a real discovery.

Got my fingers crossed.

177. Aurore - March 13, 2013

“So they’re making me bite my nails.”
__________

That is precisely the type of comment Damon Lindelof and his colleagues expect to read on a Star Trek board….I think.

Those guys are EVIL!

(Hopefully they won’t disappoint.).

178. Marja - March 13, 2013

# 161, Curious,

Don’t worry, I got that you were being ironic : )

I’m former military also, so am quite sensitive to matters of institutional sexism. And being a movie fan, quite sensitive, as a feminist, to the sexism rampant in Hollywood.

Thanks for “getting it” … I think I like your sense of humor

______________________________

#175, great point, and I hope Hollywood media either announce “spoiler alert” or don’t give it away until at least a few weeks after the film premieres.

On the Khan references, I thought that was mostly fan inferences made from the brief appearances of Del Toro at Bad Robot ….

179. Aurore - March 13, 2013

“Now we ALL I think have seen the Khan references for a very long time.”
________

I have seen some fellow fans seeing Khan references for a very long time.

That is for sure.

‘Never really saw them myself…

180. Trek Fan - March 13, 2013

Are you guys serious? STILL with the Khan theories? Guys… please… there is NOTHING even resembling Khan or a “Khan-centric” story. You guys are grasping at air now. Gotta admire your tenacity though! lol

181. dmduncan - March 13, 2013

177. Aurore – March 13, 2013

Well I don’t know Damon’s filmography other than Lost and Prometheus. Prometheus I loved as a 3D movie. It was the first 3D experience I really enjoyed. But I did not like the movie as much as Alien, and trying to elucidate the mystery of the space jockey was a mistake.

There is something of the same sort of disappointment in the idea of a crypto-Khan, and since Damon is attached to both movies, I hope the pernicious influence on things I like is not coming from him, and that it won’t reappear in STID.

182. dmduncan - March 13, 2013

179. Aurore – March 13, 2013

Seriously? Hands on the glass? Marcus? Cryo-pods? Those things don’t look familiar? Those things do not point to Khan but they remind me of where I first saw those things.

183. dmduncan - March 13, 2013

And no I’m not arguing for Khan. But a what-if suddenly occurred to me that IF under Bob Orci’s direction of the comics they somehow managed to really turn Harry Mudd into a bajoran woman, then they might be able to use the same premise—whatever it is—to turn Khan into somebody BC could play.

I’m pointing out the possibility, not arguing in favor of it.

184. Dave H - March 13, 2013

169. Wow, what a pity party. Time for sure to move on though — let’s please agree on that at least.

I think Harrison is a descendant of Khan, possibly leading a secret society of the descendants of the handful surviving offspring of the Eugenics Wars. He, through information obtained from “the Spock Prime files”, helps Starfeet locate the Botany Bay, but then Stafleet kills all the crew in their chambers…and then Harrison is on the warpath for revenge.

185. Aurore - March 13, 2013

181. dmduncan – March 13, 2013

“Well I don’t know Damon’s filmography other than Lost and Prometheus. ”
______

Years ago, I’ve watched a few minutes from 5 or 6 episodes of Lost, and, more recently, I read, online, about the fact that some people found the ending of the show rather underwhelming. I haven’t seen Prometheus.

“There is something of the same sort of disappointment in the idea of a crypto-Khan, and since Damon is attached to both movies, I hope the pernicious influence on things I like is not coming from him, and that it won’t reappear in STID.”

I may be wrong, but, I honestly think he won’t go anywhere near Khan, so to speak. He adores the character/movie. He’ll leave it alone, in my opinion.

He might be one of those fellow fans who think that Khan was already done to perfection in 1982.

We’ll have an original story.

186. ME!! - March 13, 2013

“whining vhs trekkies”?

Well, son, we don’t need to hear from arrogant, snobbish jerks with ‘holier than thou’ attitudes.

I was watching Star Trek before you were an itch in your daddy’s pants.

187. Keachick - March 13, 2013

Well I was not expecting that many would understand, just maybe one or two…

188. Phil - March 13, 2013

Still not buying Khan, but can see how there could be tie in’s to the Eugenics era…

189. dmduncan - March 13, 2013

185. Aurore – March 13, 2013

I am calmed by your confidence. Please don’t let your next post be a hysterical change of mind.

190. Aurore - March 13, 2013

“Seriously? Hands on the glass? Marcus? Cryo-pods? Those things don’t look familiar? Those things do not point to Khan but they remind me of where I first saw those things.”
________

:)

Yes.
Seriously.

Hands on the glass? An homage of sorts. Marcus? Absolutely! Two “Marcuses”, apparently….So? You say cryo-pods, other say coffins. And, you’ve read all kinds of theories, on this site regarding what those “cryo-pods” might imply for the story.

“Those things do not point to Khan but they remind me of where I first saw those things.”

I understand.
In the new trailer, there’s a shot with Mr. Scott which reminded me of a scene in Star Trek IV…

Joking aside, I do see your point. Nevertheless, as I said, those things you mentioned were never enough for me to think of a possible Khan-related story.

“And no I’m not arguing for Khan. But a what-if suddenly occurred to me that IF under Bob Orci’s direction of the comics they somehow managed to really turn Harry Mudd into a bajoran woman, then they might be able to use the same premise—whatever it is—to turn Khan into somebody BC could play.”

If such a thing occurred, to paraphrase Roberto Orci, my eyes would probably bleed, but, it would be for all the wrong reasons. Besides, I would in all likelihood call them hack writers…and mean it…Even if the movie ended up being excellent…I can be petty like that!

:)

“I’m pointing out the possibility, not arguing in favor of it.”

I am well aware of that.

191. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

#186

If the vhs recorder fits lol if it doesn’t no need to be offended and carry on.

I only been watching Star Trek for about 26 years, maybe a bit shy of your ego 50 years

192. NuFan - March 13, 2013

Nothing so bizarre. He’s just Khan. It’s a summer blockbuster.

“nobody thinks that he’s Khan because the references are so obvious”

Trekkies are the only people on the Earth who think he’s not Khan.

193. MJ - March 13, 2013

@192 “Trekkies are the only people on the Earth who think he’s not Khan.”

You know, you may have something there.

194. Commodore Bob - March 13, 2013

I STILL say John Harrison will turn out to be Janice Lester.

;)

195. AJ - March 13, 2013

192/193

Trekkers are the only people who think about Khan.

196. crazydaystrom - March 13, 2013

173. dmduncan –

“If that’s Harry Mudd (as opposed to being his wife or an identity thief), then whatever logical premise they came up with to turn him from a large balding man to a blonde bajoran woman could conceivably be used to turn Khan into a powder blue colored brit…”

Well I must admit that’s something that’s not occurred to me. And how exactly was it that Garth gain the ability to change his appearance?

197. Still bitter - March 13, 2013

“You really have to honor the 40-plus years of canon and legacy that this amazing franchise had before we put pen to paper.”

Is that why you blew up Romulus, Vulcan and gave the emotionless spock a love interest!?

I’d love to see these guys redo Romeo and Juliet. It would probably end up as a story of two siblings who form a suicide pact.

Moffat for Trek 13!

198. BatlethInTheGroin - March 13, 2013

It. Is. Clearly. Not. Khan.

Say it with me, folks.

199. Anthony Pascale - March 13, 2013

Baby

Warning for flaming. You can try and be cute about it but you are still getting too personal. Knock it off.

200. The Observer - March 13, 2013

Khan.

201. Sebastian S. - March 13, 2013

# 83

The events of “Wrath of Khan” may not even occur in this new altered timeline. This is a new reality; anything can happen. Any even that took place before in TOS’ timeline is not guaranteed to happen again in this one. It’s the beauty of a new timeline; a whole new ST sandbox to play in.

But I don’t think its Khan either (Benedict Cumberbatch is a marvelous actor and I love his Sherlock series, but he couldn’t look less the part if he tried). I think all that Khan stuff was just a red herring to drive ST fans nuts (mission accomplished, guys…). ;-)

202. Sebastian S. - March 13, 2013

# 201 Edit:

Any ‘event’ that took place, not ‘even’…

My bad.

203. John from Cincinnati - March 13, 2013

Imagine this….

Prime Spock tells Starfleet about the SS Botany Bay….

LIndelof: “You really have to honor the 40 plus years of canon…””

It’s Khan.

204. John from Cincinnati - March 13, 2013

201.

The timelines diverged well after the SS Botany Bay was launched into space and after the Enterprise Series.

Get with the program.

205. somethoughts - March 13, 2013

#204

Not saying for sure it’s Khan but having the Kelvin destroyed before it should have been and killing off some people earlier than they should have died may have changed whom discovered the SS Botany Bay.

Who is to say the SS Botany Bay is still discovered by the Enterprise but commanded by say a Robert April and First Officer Marcus…Let’s theorize that Marcus and April did not agree on the prime directive or some important issue regarding waking up the folks etc.

The Sequel could possibly feature Khan, we will find out on May 9th or whenever which country or theater has it first.

206. Sebastian S. - March 13, 2013

# 204

JFC
Hostile much?

And the Botany Bay’s ‘launch’ before the timeline divergence still doesn’t mean both Space Seed and Wrath of Khan will go down exactly like before in this new timeline. Besides, WW3 now occurs in the 2050s (according to First Contact) not the 1990s. No need to cling to the events of TOS like scripture; even ST doesn’t….

If Khan is at all in this new series of movies, I think he’ll be in the next one. I agree with an earlier poster that there is already too much in this movies’ bag to have Khan shoehorned in there as well. John Harrison is a very pale faced, blue-eyed Englishman, not an Spanish-accented would-be “North Indian” Sikh. If the Khan rumor is true, I’d be prepared for the fans & critics to rip this movie’s casting guys a new one….

207. ThePhaige - March 13, 2013

Hes “The son of Khan”

208. Red Shirt Diaries - March 13, 2013

Good to see Anthony putting the hammer down on all of the recent troublemakers here.

209. petrichor - March 13, 2013

Star Trek Into Dark Knight Rises of Steel

210. BJ (TheFreshMaker) - March 13, 2013

@204 John from Cincinnati .

“The timelines diverged well after the SS Botany Bay was launched into space and after the Enterprise Series.

Get with the program.”

I see people point that out alot, but it seems like no one ever thinks of the fact that the timeline isn’t just effected from that point on. What about all the times the Enterprise crew and other Starfleet crews have gone back in time to points BEFORE that time period? Maybe the changes prevented them from going back into time and making the “right changes” they made in the Prime Universe. Such as saving George and Gracie, meeting Gary Seven, or impersonating Gabriel Bell. So the past could very well be as skewed as the future. As Spock once said, ‘He’s intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates…two dimensional thinking…’ So before telling anyone to “get with the program”, think a little harder…

211. MJ - March 14, 2013

@210. BJ, can you pour me a fresh scotch please, on the rocks. I’d like one of your awesome lobsters as well — fresh from the tank.

212. msn1701 - March 14, 2013

Good luck with that secrecy. I’ll bet it gets out on the net beforet the movie is released. If you don’t want to get spoiled, you have to stay away from the net around May 10th. It’s that simple. Ahh, I can’t wait!

213. THX-1138 - March 14, 2013

I figured out who John Harrison is over on the video game article. It’s so clear. I can’t believe that the answer was right in front of our eyes and yet we could not see it.

The new movie will certainly spin a web of intrigue.

214. MJ - March 14, 2013

@213. Wow, you are correct. Bandai Namco is the true identify of BC.

Right there in front of me all along!

215. Curious Cadet - March 14, 2013

@153 Jack,
“A lot of this stuff might not have to be explained onscreen — in Trek 09 all we knew was that Pike was a Captain, that McCoy was a divorced Doctor etc.”

While I agree the producers will find a shorthand to convey much of what we need to know, my point was basically that there’s a lot of connections that need to be made if all the speculation pans out, especially with respect to Khan. In other words, too many connections to be realistically plausible in one film, meaning not all of it will be in the film — so pick one. With respect to Marcus and the Prime Directive, if the speculation is true; that Marcus is somehow helping April, or even if he is at odds with him, the audience will have to know why, especially if Marcus ends up being the puppet master behind Harrison, which ties into a complicated history beginning first with April & Marcus’ story, and then Kirk’s subsequent mission which we are seeing in Countdown. I don’t see how we can understand what Marcus is doing in this film, without understanding his position regarding the Prime Directive, if that turns out to be the catalyst behind Harrison’s actions.

@210. BJ,
“It seems like no one ever thinks of the fact that the timeline isn’t just effected from that point on. What about all the times the Enterprise crew and other Starfleet crews have gone back in time to points BEFORE that time period?”

This is true. Orci brought this up almost immediately after he announced and then began stumping for the McGuffin which allows them to circumvent canon. Because the Prime universe relied upon an old-fashioned concept of time travel, he suggested that the new view of time travel they use in the alternate universe could be retroactively applied to the original time travel stories — meaning each temporal incursion in previous time travel stories resulted in the crew splintering off in yet another entirely different universe as well. The result being any time travel that happened after a given episode could have theoretically resulted in those events playing out differently in the past of future episodes. One specific reference they made was to First Contact, which created a new universe in which Enterprise took place, already resulting in changes in the TOS era forward which we are seeing now.

But again, while this is an intriguing concept to banter about over a couple of neat scotches at the pub, it’s a can of worms to introduce in the Abrams films. While the average audience has no idea who Khan is and could care less, thanks to the media covering Abrams marketing campaign of secrecy, Ricardo Montalban’s image (from TWOK no less) has been plastered up everywhere. So some of those general audience members are going to have some concept of who Khan is supposed to be going in, if only an image. And Harrison ain’t Montalban. Moreover, for Harrison to be Khan, it means some previous temporal incursion resulted in an alternate timeline where a pasty white British guy from London ended up on the Botany Bay as the leader of a group of escaped augments, and also being named Khan Noonien Singh. Everything else about him from canon could then be changed. In which case, why even make a movie about Khan? You’ve basically thrown out everything that identifies a classic character and created a brand new character that happens to have the same name. It would be like having Kirk played by a black actor — not that it couldn’t (or shouldn’t) be done, but it goes against the spirit of deal the producers made with the fans.

It is disingenuous to tell the fans that everything that happened prior to Nero’s incursion remains the same, then change something as major as Khan and tell us with a wry smile after the fact that it’s because of Sisko’s time travel in a DS9 episode, while patting themselves on the back about how clever they are.

216. Trekkiegal63 - March 14, 2013

#213 THX-1138:

I also came up with a theory after reading the video game article, I wonder if we came up with the same one…

Without going into detail does the TOS episode “Arena” play into yours?

217. dmduncan - March 14, 2013

214. MJ – March 14, 2013

lol! Finally, an answer.

But I’ll take a look at that video game article. I haven’t read it yet.

218. THX-1138 - March 14, 2013

MJ

I can’t believe you aren’t taking me seriously. This is an outrage and I want Anthony to do something about it right now. Maybe cluck like a chicken or something. That would be fun.

TrekkieGal

Well……..not exactly. More like “In A Mirror Darkly” (that should throw folks off the trail).

It’s all in sport, folks. Having a bit of a laugh and all that.

219. THX-1138 - March 14, 2013

But when I’m proven right I expect all of you to purchase me an adult beverage. Toast to my mental prowess and deductive acuity.

You, of course, may imbibe the drink of your own choosing.

220. Trekkiegal63 - March 14, 2013

#218 THX-1138:

Yes, I just read your most recent response on the video game thread… we have different theories. ;)

221. Kate Clark - March 14, 2013

He’s Jean Luc Picard. Look at the resemblance to Patrick Stewart and listen to his voice.

222. THX-1138 - March 14, 2013

Trekkiegal

You could still buy me a drink, you know.

223. Bamasi - March 14, 2013

The real John Harrison just made Yahoo news. And yes, he’s in the military.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/popular-stipend-stripped-u-military-members-112819475.html

224. Finnegan, what's been happening to my people? - March 14, 2013

http://www.themarysue.com/damon-lindelof-star-trek-into-darkness-benedict-cumberbatch/

225. John Cooley - March 14, 2013

What if he’s “Marla McGivers”? Really.

226. THX-1138 - March 14, 2013

John Cooley

Can’t be. Marla McGivers was clearly a Horta. Or a Mugato. For certain.

227. TrekkerChick - March 14, 2013

Word on the street is that he’s actually Jahn from Miri’s Planet, and everything he does is a just a REALLY big foolie on the Federation.

228. Trekkiegal63 - March 14, 2013

#222. THX-1138:

Fine, but just a warning, I only buy what my husband refers to as fufu drinks. When it’s not wine, which I adore, it’s lemon/lime with a spot of tequila and blended. ;)

229. Curious Cadet - March 14, 2013

@227 trekkerchick,

Was Miri’s Planet actually a thing someone proposed as a possible solution to the new film?

Miri’s planet is still out there. It’s still an exact duplicate of Earth, stalled in the 20th century … Who knows considering Orci’s conspiracy theories and the Archon installment of the comics, maybe Harrison is the Starfleet office in charge of monitoring the Starfleet experiments being performed on Miri’s world when they all go wrong. He feels a familial attachment to them, and turns on the federation when they refuse to help the population they inadvertently killed.

230. I Wonder - March 14, 2013

In The Alternative Factor, before Lazarus leaves the bridge, at about 20 minutes into the episode, he says “I’ll have my vengeance”. Could the fact that Harrison uses the same words in the preview be a hint?

231. THX-1138 - March 14, 2013

Trekkiegal

That will be fine. I’ll have a lemon lime with two to three spots of tequila and no ice. And hold the lemon and lime.

The Mirror Universe Tholians shall claim their vengeance on the Alternate Universe Federation for the theft of the Prime Universe Constellation. In the Mirror Universe. I mean the theft occurred in the Mirror Universe. The vengeance will take place in the Alternate Universe. Even though the Tholians obtained the Constellation from the Prime Universe.

The Tholians are clearly confused.

232. Phil - March 14, 2013

Somewhere in New Zealand, the Mary Sue detector has been activated. Run. For the love of god, RUN….

233. James T. West - March 14, 2013

Ok. Now I’m certain.

Harrison is David Marcus!

I apologize, I couldn’t read through the whole thread.

Ya. David Marcus. Kirk vs. His son, who’s come back from the future.

234. Jack - March 14, 2013

233. And gets hit by Admiral Marcus’ hovercar in front of their house…

235. Jack - March 14, 2013

Are there any blue skies in this movie? Everything looks so bloody grey and misrable. Come on, it’s nearly spring. ;)

236. dswynne - March 14, 2013

I think people wanted to know the spoilers should look at how “The Matrix: Reloaded” was received by its fan base. I do NOT want what happened to the Matrix Trilogy happen to this new Star trek series. Besides, only impatient “children” want to be spoiled, rather than wait until the actual STiD film arrives…

237. MJ - March 14, 2013

@235. Dude, it’s London and San Francisco. Blue skies need not apply.

238. The Last Vulcan - March 15, 2013

233. James T. West – Hey, you def get points for innovative thinking. It just might fit. We’ll see!

239. The Last Vulcan - March 15, 2013

Hmm… got me thinking. Kirk knocks up Marcus, he goes off to mess up the galaxy and she marries Starfleet’s Harrison (from Space Seed and other TOS). So the kid gets the Harrison surname grows up to have a real grudge with the Federation and then goes back in time (shades of Braga wanks). Not bad, actually… Still like my original plot better as it’s more likely but this is feasible too.

240. THX-1138 - March 15, 2013

You’re all way off.

Tholians. Really ticked off Tholians. Who are confused. Hello? The Volcano that Spock is in? He’s looking for Harrison. Because it’s a good place for a Tholian to hide out.

241. Trekkiegal63 - March 15, 2013

#240 THX-1138:

Well, the resemblence is striking…

http://www.comicvine.com/tholians/65-56980/all-images/108-299109/tholian2/105-943893/

242. John from Cincinnati - March 15, 2013

Damon Lindelof – “You really have to honor the 40-plus years of canon and legacy that this amazing franchise had before we put pen to paper.”

That’s the most encouraging thing I’ve heard come from the Supreme Court yet.

243. The Last Vulcan - March 15, 2013

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaa. Just had a brain fart to end all cranial flatulence.

What if Marcus’ kid Harrison is caught on a planet that’s Genesis’d by the Federation. Maybe the Fed didn’t realize that he was there, along with the “lovely” native sapient species (maybe they were underground) and they got wiped out while Harrison got deaged a la Spock! There’s your vengeance… the Fed committed genocide (albeit unknowingly.) Then add a bit of time travel sauce and voila’ you have original ST II and III plots. :)

Still not that likely but hey, what the heck!

244. THX-1138 - March 15, 2013

Trekkiegal

So is that a pic of Cumberbatch from Sherlock? I’ll have to watch that show.

245. somethoughts - March 15, 2013

running time: 129 min dam I wish this was as long as the hobbit at 169 mins…

246. Trekkiegal63 - March 15, 2013

#244. THX-1138:

Why yes, yes it was. ;)

247. Ed Waters - March 15, 2013

I’m sticking with my Omni theory as to the plot secret, and if I’m right (lord knows I’ve done my research) we’re in for the best Trek ever. And “Into Darkness” will be a cliffhanger with the third movie it’s sequel. The real foe won’t be exposed until perhaps the very end of “Into Darkness”. John Harrison, as dangerous as he is, is but a pawn of a one called Omne. Those who have read the 2 Trek Novels about Omni from the 70’s know what I am saying – those who have not do not.
Ed Waters
Trek Fan since Sept. 8, 1966 and proud of it
jtkno6@gmail.com

248. Ed Waters - March 15, 2013

MY MISTAKE – My above post should reveal OMNE as the foe.
Ed Waters

249. Jack - March 16, 2013

Alas, Nufan. You’re probably right. But I’m still hoping against all odds for a more surprising surprise from M. Night Lindelof and co.

But, yes, where there’s smoke, there’s Francis. I mean Khan.

250. Edshrinker - March 16, 2013

Lindelof has been pretty quiet these days. I wonder if his tail is between his legs over the Prometheus reviews. He and Carlton Cuse (Darlton as the Losties referred to them) were quite funny and engaging during Lost’s run. Lots of interviews and podcasts. He seems detached from STID. He’s a funny guy – surprised he’s not “out there” more.

251. crazydaystrom - March 16, 2013

247. Ed Waters –
” we’re in for the best Trek ever. ”

Feeling that as well, Ed. Fingers crossed!

“And “Into Darkness” will be a cliffhanger with the third movie it’s sequel.”

Something I speculated on over a year ago here, STID being Trek’s ‘The Empire Strikes Back’.

252. Zontar Formerly of Venus - March 16, 2013

If the main characters don’t know who he is, doesn’t that close off Gary Michell?

253. No sir dont like it one bit - March 17, 2013

I get on this to read about Star Trek and all I hear is the He-man woman haters club \Its offensive and shows us in a bad light.

I agree I think its going to be Johnny from the first film. Just think how painful it will be for kirk if he has to kill his best friend. Wait haven’t seen we this before?

254. Stvnsam40 - March 17, 2013

Ok, I’ve been thinking of about the character John Harrison and who he could be that no one has mentioned. So I’m going to tell now. He’s a very dark and sadistic offi e who because of Kirk had his star fleet career ruined and eventually pass over for promotion. So he has knowledge of Starfleet and motive to hate both Kirk and Starfleet. And if his daughter is somehow dead in the reality, he’ll be even further of the reservation.

Yes, John Harrison is Finney. Ben Finney. Sorry to spoil it. Heeheehee

255. THX-1138 - March 18, 2013

Tholian. Dude’s a Tholian.

I’m not letting it go. It entertains me.

256. Daniel Forsman - March 18, 2013

Hi, he’s Robert April (former captain of the Enterprise). Just de-aged and augmented.
Read the Countdown to darkness series.

=)

Live long and prosper.

257. Daniel Forsman - March 18, 2013

Also a hint in a picture of him fighting klingons and wielding April’s gattling gun.

=)

258. THX-1138 - March 18, 2013

Hi, he’s a Tholian spy.

259. Aurore - March 19, 2013

Correction.190.

You say cryo-pods, other say coffins.

=

You say cryo-pods, others say coffins.

260. Robert Oyler - March 20, 2013

256-257. Daniel Forsman…
I think you just might be right.
If it is not Khan, and you can see why I believe that is if u go to comment 90 & 93….if its not Khan… its Robert April.
Also, Peter Weller is so Iconic in the Scifi world…I believe he will play an older version of John Harrison…so if its Robert April…they could show him re-aged at the end of the movie.

261. Loki Laufeyson - April 3, 2013

I dont think its Khan. Khan and his buds were around at the end of Eugenics War. I think the movie will show us how the war began, why everyone is so against genetic enhancement. I also think that the scene with the hands on glass is Harrison and his mentor/creator, whoever betrayed him. We see Harrison in a blue Starfleet uniform and he’s killing Starfleet personel in the trailer, so yeah. It might even be Pike. I think Starfleet enhanced a bunch of agents and when they found they could no longer control them… killed them. So Harrison decides to bring them all down.

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