Third Star Trek Into Darkness Clip Has Kirk Confronting Harrison + Berlin Premiere Prep Pix |
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Third Star Trek Into Darkness Clip Has Kirk Confronting Harrison + Berlin Premiere Prep Pix April 29, 2013

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Marketing/Promotion,Spoilers,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Monday morning brings a the third clip from Star Trek Into Darkness featuring Captain Kirk facing off against John Harrison. Watch it below but of course beware of spoilers! We also have some pictures of the prep for tonight’s Berlin premiere.


Clip #3: Harrison Has A Number Of Reasons Why Kirk Should Trust Him

A new clip from Star Trek Into Darkness (titled "I Allow It") has been released as an exclusive to a number of sites around the world. (such as Apple Trailers, Ireland’s RTE and UK’s Daily Mail). It is also available as embed from Paramount International (below). The clip features Benedict Cumberbatch as John Harrison in the brig of the USS Enterprise being confronted by Capt. Kirk (Chris Pine). We can see in this clip some of Harrison’s psychological manipulation the stars have been talking about.

Berlin Premiere Tonight

As of the writing of this article the Berlin red carpet premiere is just a couple hours away. TrekMovie has a man on the scene who will be providing red carpet coverage. We will also have a report from the press conference and pictures as well. For now, here are a couple of pictures of yesterday and today’s prep for the event.

Berlin preps for Monday night’s premiere (Photo: Stephan Seifert and Thorsten Wulff)

Thanks to Simon, Jon, P.C.



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For articles with spoilers, comments can discuss spoilers as mentioned in the article (including speculation, personal analysis, etc.).

Violating these rules or discussing potential spoilers not posted at and/or linking to other spoilers will result in deletion and instant ban (No Warnings).


1. Comrade - April 29, 2013


2. Konar - April 29, 2013

That is a great clip.

3. Moputo Jones - April 29, 2013

Uh ya, watch the first 5 minutes of “Space Seed” and you’ll know what this is about.

4. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

72…yeah, that was huge spoilerish for any star trek fan. Still, the good Captain was a bit mad in that clip. LOVE IT

5. Aurore - April 29, 2013

72…fava beans recipes?

Please, don’t ban me Anthonyyyyyyyyyy !


6. Phil - April 29, 2013

Shut your mouth.

Sorry, this boy toy Kirk sounds like he’s in way over his head. Pike’s endorsement must be ringing hard in his ears as Kirk faces his inadequacies’..

7. Anthony Pascale - April 29, 2013

To be clear it is OK to theorize, speculate, ponder, complain etc as you have always done.

What I dont want is ppls saying I read XXXXX at YYYYY and they said ZZZZZ SPOILER.


8. Aix - April 29, 2013

72 — number of trench coats Harrison owns.

9. Aurore - April 29, 2013


Mkay !

10. rogue_alice - April 29, 2013

So the answer now is 72?

11. Sebi - April 29, 2013

I always thought the “answer” was 42?

12. JohnRambo - April 29, 2013—deutschlandpremiere

live stream Berlin premiere stars in 38min

13. Spaceman - April 29, 2013

72 is the number of surviving crew members aboard the Botany Bay in space seed…coincidence? I think not. KHAAAN!!!!

14. Skeptic - April 29, 2013

Anthony, I’m curious. With some of the spoilers out there, and now this clip, it’s becoming clearer and clearer that many people on here were right all along, and many were wrong. Having interviewed the cast and crew, have you known all this time? ;)

15. Sebi - April 29, 2013

OK serious for a moment…. if cryo tubes, resistance to vulcan nerve pinch, “I am better” and now the 72 (out of 84 anyone) don’t strongly hint to Khan I don’t know what will…..

But there’s still the possibility that it’s not Khan and this is just to throw us off…. we will know in a few weeks!!!

16. Mee - April 29, 2013

This would have been 72,000 times more epic if there were only 47 reasons….

I honestly pray this is just a casual reference or another fan service cool number and doesnt mean what I think it means.

17. rogue_alice - April 29, 2013

The landing party finds a cargo of 84 humans, 72 of whom are still alive and still in suspended-animation after nearly 300 years.

18. spock - April 29, 2013

If this is Khan I wonder who found him, and when. Also, what made the result different this time vs. when the Enterprise thawed him out.

19. MORN SPEAKS - April 29, 2013

But WHY, are the 72 on board the Enterprise??

20. spock - April 29, 2013

I guess the 72 are within Starfleet. Maybe he needs Kirk’s help and wanted a back up plan if Kirk said no.

21. Matt - April 29, 2013

72 felony indictments that Harrison probably has against him.

22. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

@18..if he is who we all think he is, then Anthony has been right all long.

I think most can put 1+1 together on who thawed him out. Deducing that Weller said his character was “a ceo type with his own ship” pretty much says that it must be Marcus who found and thawed out “Harrison” and the 72 other survivors have been placed on the Enterprise under cover…

Kinda fits with the Countdown comic with Section 31 trying to recruit Sulu to do their bidding…fits big time.

I’m starting to think that Weller is as much the villain as “Harrison” is..

23. Skeptic - April 29, 2013

72 fervent Khan-denialists? No, those are on this site, not on the E.

24. Chase - April 29, 2013

My guess is that Harrison is trying to prevent the 72 from being revived, because he knows who they are. I’ve said it before, but I don’t know if Harrison’s really the villain of this story.

25. Factchecker - April 29, 2013

I grow fatigued again.

26. AyanEva - April 29, 2013

Sooo… I have to admit my guess about Harrison is looking pretty busted right now! lol

However, I will only concede defeat once I see the film for myself and am 100% certain. Harrison could be talking about 72 loose welds in the construction of the Enterprise that will cause it to crash. He’s a Licenses & Inspection investigator who is conducting an undercover investigation into reports of shoddy construction work. Starfleet tried to pay off the inspectors and Harrison is enraged by the poor ethical conduct. I’ve figured out the plot, guys!

27. Hawkeye53 - April 29, 2013

You know, I’m starting to think that John Harrison may not be the big bad guy after all. I’d be surprise if it was Admiral Marcus, and Harrison’s taking the flack for sometime he was ordered to do. Although I’ve been wrong before; and 72 it’s too much of a coincidence to ignore. Either way I await the movie, with the wide eyes of a child hoping to be surprised.

28. spock - April 29, 2013

Harrison seems to be playing on a fine line. Do we really know if he is responsible for the bombings in the trailer or is he being set up. The plot really sounds a lot like DS 9 Home Front / Paradise Lost

29. sisko - April 29, 2013


Still don’t want him to be Khan.

30. Commodore Adams - April 29, 2013

Great clip, the atmosphere with the music, chills indeed.

31. Matt - April 29, 2013

kinda reminds me of the interrogation scene between Batman and Joker in “The Dark Knight”

32. Daniel Broadway - April 29, 2013

There were 72 survivors aboard the SS Botany Bay. Just sayin’…

33. Curious Cadet - April 29, 2013

@6. Phil,
“Sorry, this boy toy Kirk sounds like he’s in way over his head.”

I’m actually embarrassed for Pine after seeing that clip. Harrison is not only “better at everything” than Kirk, but so it seems Cumberbatch is than Pine.

I mean it’s night and day which is the better actor in that scene. No wonder Pine was sulking over how much more attention Cumberbatch has been getting in the press than he.

Fortunately for the contrived plot of promoting Kirk to captain of the fleet’s flagship right out of the Academy, this apparent inadequacy works.

Honestly, this clip is the first disappointment I’ve had from what has been officially released. But from the spoilers I’ve read and now this apparent “72” Khanfirmation, I’m sure it’s just the beginning …

34. Mantastic - April 29, 2013

Well, that seals it. This clip, the pods and the superhuman strength in the previous trailers…It has to be Khan. Ugh. Way to be original JJ. That and way to retconn things so Khan is now a white British dude.

I just hope that the movie’s reasoning for his being there isn’t super lame. My guess is since he’s in Starfleet, I bet another ship found the Botany Bay, brought them back instead of waking them up, and they have been using the augments for some secret military project of some kind (hence the giant, ugly bad guy ship they hijack), and now he’s pissed and wants revenge/vengeance/wrath. Admiral Marcus ends up being involved somehow I’m sure too, otherwise I don’t see a reason for him to be there other than just being Carol’s dad.

It’s been done in sci-fi (and in movies in general) a million times before Hell, it was done with another recent movie that I just saw two weeks ago. I really, really hope JJ has something much more interesting up his sleeve because if this is it, I’m going to be really disappointed.

35. Newdivide1701 - April 29, 2013

They were right, but also wrong. I think I know.

36. Aurore - April 29, 2013

“…if he is who we all think he is, then Anthony has been right all long.”

Then, Latino Review was too, way before he was in fact, way back when, someone answered “Not True” to the question “Is XXXX going to play who we all (except Aurore) think he is going to play?”

If I’m even allowed to say so without being banned….Anthony.


37. Jim Phelps - April 29, 2013

If 72 of Khans men and women were loaded aboard the Enterprise before they left to go on their mission to hunt down Harrison, why would Marcus want to destroy the Enterprise with them on it since he found them in the first place? Also why bring the 72 aboard in the first place?

38. Hubcap Dave - April 29, 2013


Come to think of it, it does echo that scene!

39. I am not Herbert (retired) - April 29, 2013

fava beans indeed… =(

40. Superman - April 29, 2013

This confirms my worst fears for this movie. It corroborates my own theories, which I’ll not spell out so as to abide by Anthony’s rules. Suffice to say I am disappointed that Abrams and Co. didn’t go to a different part of the galaxy with this story.

41. I am not Herbert (retired) - April 29, 2013

Pine is more a “leading man” than an “Actor”… ;-)

Cumberbatch IS an Actor.

42. Daniel Broadway - April 29, 2013

@ 34 Mantastic

Then you will be disappointed.

43. Planet Pandro - April 29, 2013

72 bottles of brewed on site bud-gineering beer left on the (antigravity chamber) wall? I mean, they’ve been on board all along…

44. Aurore - April 29, 2013

“72 bottles of brewed on site bud-gineering beer left on the (antigravity chamber) wall? I mean, they’ve been on board all along…”

No, no, no, no, no.

Make that 72 bottles of a nice Chianti…with fava beans, that is the way to go…

45. Coastie - April 29, 2013

Love the clip … I have to say I’m a little concerned Cumberbach is going to overpower Pine in the acting department … Pine was a little over the top in this scene, Cumberbach was this generations Jeremy Irons in this scene … loved it!

46. - April 29, 2013


Yep. I think you are correct.

47. Cinema Geekly - April 29, 2013

Prior to this movies release half of all Star Trek films were either directly about revenge or vengeance of some kind.

It is a common theme is MOST stories. But that isn’t all this movie is or the first movie for that matter. Those are just a pretext for the subtext of the movies.

The underlying themes in Trek have seemingly always been more important to fans, all of a sudden if the main story of the film isn’t some ground breaking new idea then it is just a brain dead blockbuster.

Personally I think this is just repressed anger for someone “daring” to recast the TOS crew and make in their image (which if it isn’t exactly the same as I remember then it is bad).

And I can’t stand the originality kick people are on. How is that that we always hear “WHERE R TEH KLINGONZ” when they should be saying “Ugggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg Klingons AGAIN?!?!?!?!?” How many times have we seen a story involving Klingons?

I can’t even count it for you but I can count the stories involving Khan. 2. And the last time we saw that character was 1982! And before that it was 1967!!! And that is for a grand total of what? 3 hours of screen time? If you are telling me that there is no way to do a fresh take on a character last seen 31 years ago then I don’t know what to tell you.

48. Trekkiegal63 - April 29, 2013

*sigh* This clip does make things quite clear. No denying it now. Might as well go read those other spoilers now, which I’ve been avoiding as I kept hoping against hope that all of the clues thus far were a deliberate red herring.

…not sure how I feel about it, but amidst the slew of emotions is anxiety for the film. Big shoes to fill. Huge shoes. And I don’t think these rebooted characters are in a place in their lives or experiences to pull off the emotional resonance that positively sang out of the original.

49. kmart - April 29, 2013

Maybe the ad should read ‘outgunned & overpowered’ …
cuz I couldn’t believe how out of his depths Pine came off in this scene.
It was like seeing the meek half-Kirk in THE ENEMY WITHIN or something.

Shatner, for all his overplaying, often let various contrasting emotions play out in the course of a single scene. But here it is like the guy Pine is playing is trying to keep from getting a tear-glaze in his eye — is it the way he was (mis)directed, or is this Pine rather than Kirk nervous about the Brit blowing him off the screen?

(it has happened with better actors … Burt Lancaster told a story that playing opposite Montgomery Clift, his knees were shaking because Clift exuded such power as an actor.)

It was kind of like remembering that one scene in SPY WHO LOVED ME where Roger Moore had to ACT … lots of throat-clearing in the theater as he tries to justify his character’s actions. Bad BAD BAD!

50. Karen - April 29, 2013

It’s always possible that Pine’s ‘overacting’ is just the result of the clip being out of context. I’m not saying he was great, and Cumberbatch is obviously leagues ahead of a lot of young actors on the field now, but I’m saying it might be too early to pass judgement without knowing what (scene/emotion) Kirk is coming from.

51. kmart - April 29, 2013

Regarding 72 … it IS the future, so by then in the alterality of Abrams, three additional sexual positions will have been invented.

Probably by a little old lady from Leningrad, who mentored Harrison in the ways of the force.

52. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

Being that he seems to be Khan, I’m not one bit disappointed by the casting…back in the day he was played by a Mexican, now he’s played by an Englishman, big deal, neither got it right.

I don’t really care about the ethnicity deal as long as Cumberpatch does the part justice and honors Ricardo Montalban…from the reviews and clips, he looks like he did just that. It would be an utter shame if they picked someone who looked more like Montalban or even an Indian actor, and that individual was nothing more then a muscle man with zero acting ability.

It’s not a big deal. It’s a fictional universe. Besides, Starfleet, as far back as the original series, had methods of changing ones appearance. I’m pretty sure that whomever found this guy had to go to great lengths to change his appearance so that the general population would not recognize him.

53. - April 29, 2013

Pine was great in that scene, as was Cumberbatch.

54. JackballTV - April 29, 2013

72 Orion Slave Girls?

55. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

@47, you nailed it on the spot.

For four years folks have been talking about “wanting more Klingons” yet now are crying about “originality” on a movie they have not seen yet and already saying that just by having his one individual in the film that it’s been done before and this is just a rehash.

I didn’t see Batman fans complain this much with the Joker in the Dark Knight. His story was not even that original, a copy of a multitude of comic book stories, yet Ledger made it feel original. Cumberpatch will do the same.

56. Aurore - April 29, 2013

“Pine was great in that scene, as was Cumberbatch.”

‘Can’t deny that !

57. sean - April 29, 2013

Cumberbatch should overpower Pine in this scene, though. If he’s playing You Know Who, then that means You Know Who has received extensive Starfleet training in this universe. OG Kirk barely defeated You Know Who in the Prime timeline, and that was mostly down to the fact that You Know Who didn’t have the experience Kirk did. If Prime You Know Who had the same advantage this version did, he’d have wiped the floor with OG Kirk. Pine should seem outmatched and off his game. Much like Spock in Trek 09, he’s clearly emotionally compromised.

And let’s be fair, Shatner was often overshadowed by his guest stars as well.

I also like that Cumberbatch seems as though he may not be the villain at all, just a man who has been wronged and is perhaps justified in his anger toward Starfleet (or people within it).

58. Roger - April 29, 2013

I don’t think Cumberbatch is Khan (though if he is, I will be bitterly disappointed); rather, he is one of the Augments.

59. Moputo Jones - April 29, 2013

Seriously, some of you are still denying the reality of who the villain is, especially after this clip?

60. Curious Cadet - April 29, 2013

@34. Mantastic,
“It’s been done in sci-fi (and in movies in general) a million times before … I really, really hope JJ has something much more interesting up his sleeve because if this is it, I’m going to be really disappointed.”

You know, it’s interesting, this has all happened before. You remember LOST? The producers all went around so arrogantly daring the fans to come up with a solution to the mystery they were so ingeniously crafting, and the fans all essentially arrived at: ‘they’re all really dead and in purgatory’ from the first effort. The producers then went on to flat out deny, deflect and suggest other possibilities for the remainder of the series, ending it essentially the way fans predicted it from day one.

The fans aren’t as dumb as Abrams apparently thinks they are.

Everything you lay out in your speculation has been proposed by the fans since it was first rumored the villain might be Khan. Which is why the leaked spoilers read like bad fan fiction, and not a two hundred million dollar motion picture. The fans have also proposed fom day one that a shadow faction of Starfleet (in this case likely Admiral Marcus) has either abandoned Khan’s people following some mission, or holding them hostage in exchange for his services. As you say, plots that have been used a “million times” before.

But what else could Abrams do, other than lie to and confuse the fans? The fans guessed the entire plot from the first attempt. If indeed this is what has happened, I too will quite disappointed. But you know who won’t be? The general audiences, most of whom won’t know, or care who Khan is, and as he’s said repeatedly that’s who Abrams is making the movie for, not the fans. Moreover, the plot is of less consequence than the action. Yes it’s been done a “million times”, but not in this context. Then again I said audiences are smarter than Abrams seemingly gives them credit for, so who knows even though they may not care who Khan is, they might not embrace this tired plot despite the radical change of venue and exciting candy coating.

For now, all I can do is hope the leaked spoilers are yet one more deception by Bad Robot to cloud the issue and protect the mystery, or a practical joke by some frustrated Trek fans. Seriously, I can think of nothing worse for fan morale than perpetuating a mystery where there is none, and moreover delivering a plot so obvious that it was guessed from the beginning, unworthy of the hype it has accumulated along the way.

61. BH - April 29, 2013

@33 – so true. It reminded me of McConaughey acting against Sir Hopkins in Amistad. There’s a scene where you can just tell McConaughey was wishing himself invisible on set. Pine clearly can’t keep up.

62. Jeyl - April 29, 2013

Why didn’t they cast Benedict as Kirk?

63. Mike - April 29, 2013

I still don’t think Cumberbach is Kahn. My theory is he’s just a supersoldier who is mobilizing the troops to uncover Kahn at the end. And who is playing Kahn, you ask? I think Benicio Del Torro. The story that he turned down the villain role was released to mislead trekkies– but in actuality he filmed a short end sequence where he is revealed as Kahn.

That’s what I’m thinking it is at least.

64. Aurore - April 29, 2013

“Seriously, some of you are still denying the reality of who the villain is, especially after this clip?”

For my part, now, I am merely denying the reality of a thread where I can complain properly.

However, once Anthony gives the go ahead so to speak, it will be another story…


65. Mantastic - April 29, 2013

@47 Cinema Geekly, the problem is the way the villain is presented. For the longest time the biggest hype component for the movie has been “who’s the bad guy?”. Everyone was asking and hypothesizing, and still are.

Now that we have a pretty clear idea that this he’s Khan, it reminds me of something a friend of mine did when we were kids and I was a gullible little twerp. He had a sealed bag of Skittles, and for the whole day he talked about how it was M&Ms inside (because I love the damn things). He lies and lies, makes it seem really mysterious, and eventually I actually started to believe him, though I was still suspicious. Lo and behold when he opened the bag, it’s just as I originally expected, Skittles.

Rather than being surprised, I felt like a complete fool. The clues were all there right in front of my face and there was no real doubt that it was what I thought, but with all the lies and fun of a mystery, I let myself be convinced that it was something that it wasn’t. That’s how I feel right now.

If JJ really wanted to surprise and delight us, he would’ve pulled out candy none of us would have guessed, but still thoroughly enjoyed.

66. Mike - April 29, 2013

Or my Kahnspiracy theory if you will.

67. Curious Cadet - April 29, 2013

@50. Karen,
“It’s always possible that Pine’s ‘overacting’ is just the result of the clip being out of context.”

Nope. It’s a complete scene. Pine’s acting is consistent with every clip I’ve seen from this movie, as well as the original film. It’s working opposite Cumberbatch that contrasts the talent so dramatically. We haven’t really seen Cumberbatch work until now. Bottom line, if you have to question whether the ‘overacting’ is just that, or a character choice, then the question is already answered, context has nothing to do with it.

68. bringbacktrekagain - April 29, 2013

It’s Gary Seven.

69. WriterJWA - April 29, 2013

@63: That idea has been lurking in my mind for some time now. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Del Toro at the end of this.

70. kmart - April 29, 2013

Yeah, the idea that this is a Kirk who should be able to the smooth cool “go to your quarters or I’ll pick you up and carry you there,” that we got early on with CHARLIE X could not possibly be more at a remove from this clip.

If somebody had actually paid attention to TOS, they’d’ve noticed Shatner Kirk actively stakes out part of the frame as territory, and that style registers as character over time. Pine is just there.

71. Travis - April 29, 2013

Well, Well, Well…. That’s all I need to say to the Non- believers who thought John Harrison is just John Harrsion! Very good reporting Anthony Pascale! Benedict Cumberbatch will play the most famous Trek villain with Honor and Pride! In honor of this joyous occasion I have provided a favorite quote of mine from Star Trek’s most famous villain…. Enjoy!!!

“He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares Maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up! “

72. Michel Li - April 29, 2013

Got it. Took me 10 times, but I think Tis clip is basically telling those who haven’t watched the movie that Harrison is still in control even though he is behind bars and that he is specifically in Kirk’s ship because Kirk is the only one who can help him.


I feel so smart rawrrrrr!!!!!!!

73. Mantastic - April 29, 2013

@60. Curious Cadet, I completely agree.

However, I think if JJ really wanted to, he and the writers could have come up with something new and fresh for a movie idea that’s both cerebral and accessible to the mainstream. Inception is proof that it can not only work as an entertaining movie, but attract the mainstream audience and make a crapload of money in the process as well.

The last movie opened the doors for it, and it looks like rather than capitalize on it, they’d rather just go deeper into the “mainstream Joe Schmoe don’t think too much” route.

Failing that, they could’ve just kept the plot the same and surprised us by not having it be Khan, or even just be one of the other augments that isn’t Khan.

74. Dude Against Telephoto Paparrazi - April 29, 2013

Well……regardless at this point of who Cumby is playing………..J.J. and his crew have been sitting pretty, enjoying the wine and roses while they have lied (LIED, for those who kind of missed that) about the whole thing. They thought it was funny or cute, or whatever but, the facts are still there. They’ve lost me and a lot of other folks on this movie. I was excited about the first one but, they began to kick us in the teeth by making us wait for 4 years for this one. 4 years? What took so long? Do you think Disney would have waited that long for Avengers 2? Bad move. Then, after generating all the excitement about this one….they lie about it (see Quinto’s recent quote about how they don’t have to lie anymore). And to think that Disney chose this guy (J.J.) to make Star Wars 7? How many lies are we going to put up with about that one? You know, Gene Rodenberry would NEVER have lied about anything. He would have demured and not have said anything except “no comment”. Rodenberry respected the fans a helluva lot more than this current crew. Enjoy the box office, J.J., Lindoff, and whoever else is there. You certainly deserve it….not my $$$$, of course. I’m just gonna sit here and wait for you to call Mark Hamill and tell him “Mark, when someone asks who you are playing in SW7….tell them ‘Bob Jones’!”

75. Coastie - April 29, 2013

I think Pine was taking acting lessons from Christian Bale and is doing his best Kirk version of the Dark Knight voice :)

76. BH - April 29, 2013

As a TOS fan, I think the miss here is not going back to the source material for somethign different.

Let’s face it: in 1982, very few people knew who the heck Khan was. In the first season, there are at least 6-8 standout episodes that eclipsed Space Seed. Khan was known by about as many non-Trekkies THEN as those who know who Roger Korby is NOW. Remember, the show had only been in reruns for a decade – a decade by and large before consumer VHS.

So many directions to go – Garth of Izar! – and it’s a retread. Safe. Blech.

Ok, but it needs to be REALLY GOOD is they’re going to pull this type of cop out.

77. Kev-1 - April 29, 2013

This is the best clip I’ve seen from the movie so far, and the first time I’ve seen Cumberbatch at all. Their conceit of an inexperienced Kirk works well enough, but this could be much more powerful with a more mature character. Still, Pine is doing his best, energetically, with his character as conceived.

78. Cinema Geekly - April 29, 2013

@65 Mantastic, I can totally see that point and I agree. Unfortunately there is a reason why they haven’t just came out and said it. Not to put to fine a point on it, but there was a reason Christopher Nolan and Liam Neeson would always say “he is” or “I am” playing Henri Ducard in Batman Begins.

That being said they did make it really obvious and I think of “leave my TOS alone and get off my lawn” fans were and still are in denial about it.

Oh and for the people complaining of absolute bitterness and hate if so-and-so is really playing so-and-so…. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE PROPHETS! Go read the spoilers already and save yourself the rage.

79. Flake - April 29, 2013

kmart: Tthis is a different Kirk to the one Shatner portrayed, simple as that.

Maybe eventually he will become Shatners Kirk but not yet. We may never see it unless they purposely go ahead in this timeline 10 years?

80. jamesingeneva - April 29, 2013

curious, can anyone map out those coordinates he gave?

81. Killamarshtrek - April 29, 2013

Ok so this clip seems to make it pretty clear Anthony was right all along which was always the most likely scenario, I’m not happy, but I can live with it as long as there’s some plausible explanation as to why he’s not Indian!

82. Flake - April 29, 2013

An actor coming in and doing their best Shatner impression is not a good idea. They have the opportunity to put a new spin on the character thanks to the timeline change. This allows for a fresh and new take on Kirk and the rest instead of carbon copies of the old characters.

83. jamesingeneva - April 29, 2013

oh wow, goes to… clue or another sign ARG had the plug pulled?

84. Joel - April 29, 2013

Wowza! Speculation is going to hit overdrive after that clip. Was it an elaborate ruse to have him mention “72” meant to drive longtime Trek fans into a frenzy or is there a connection to the Botany Bay??

Two more weeks can’t go by fast enough!

85. Flake - April 29, 2013

Chris Pine does not look like Shatner but we accept that he is Kirk so we must accept that Cumberbatch is __________

86. ACJG1985 - April 29, 2013

If he is who we all indeed think he is then I am reminded of how the person who originally played this guy gave a similarly over powering performance to Shatner’s Kirk. I felt as well that Shatner’s Kirk was so one dimentional when placed against Christopher Plummer’s General Chang but it has never been just about Mirk has it? As Harve Bennet said and I’m paraphrasing here; Star Trek has always been about a triagnle, Kirk, Spock and McCoy, McCoy with his passion, Spock with his logo e and Kirk, the mediator saying that he is passionate, he excepts logic but this is how he will do it

87. ACJG1985 - April 29, 2013

Logic argh hate auto correct and of course that Kirk not Mirk

88. Superman - April 29, 2013

#75 sums up my problem with this whole thing.

My speculation was that we were dealing with Joaquim, that Khan had died in this universe and that left his second in command in charge. I wanted to see Khan die in this universe as opposed to the Prime timeline, in which he almost dies.

It could have led to a new yet familiar villain, allowing this movie to touch on some of the themes and flavors of Space Seed and TWOK without doing an outright retread of a character who had a complete arc in the original timeline.

I will reserve ultimate judgment about the film’s quality until I see it, but only the most delusional would deny what’s been revealed in this clip alone. No more story surprises, no more chances that this movie would offer something new and different from the films before it.

I continue to hope that the 50th anniversary will see the announcement of a new Trek TV series, set in either the Prime timeline or a new one altogether, without the creators of these films behind the scenes.

89. Patrick - April 29, 2013

#88 Khan *almost* dies in the prime timeline? Come again?

90. Josh C. - April 29, 2013

ugh I hope “72” is just an inside joke to Khan, but I think this is the first real, real solid evidence that Khan may indeed be involved. If he’s not Cumberbatch, then he may at least be involved somehow based on that.


91. MelyBelle44 - April 29, 2013

I love Pine’s Kirk. It’s very different from Shatner’s, and I think by going into ST09 and resigning the fact that Pine’s Kirk was a completely different animal than Shatner’s, I was definitely able to embrace it. I didn’t look for the old Kirk in the new Kirk.

That said, this is the first scene/clip I think I’ve seen where I genuinely feel Pine channeling Shatner. He really actually reminds me of TOS Kirk here.

92. Hubcap Dave - April 29, 2013

Cumberbatch may be the superior actor, but I do not think that makes Pine a bad actor.

93. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013


is a HUGE clue!

Go watch ‘Space Seed’

94. Curious Cadet - April 29, 2013

@65. Mantastic,
“If JJ really wanted to surprise and delight us, he would’ve pulled out candy none of us would have guessed, but still thoroughly enjoyed.”

Like Reeses Peices. Haha, I love your M&M/Skittles story. And yes, that is exactly what Abrams did. It’s exactly what he did with LOST as I mentioned above. What is it they say, “fool me once, shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” (Oh sorry that was Bush) Or maybe it’s the definition of insanity, repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.

Abrams has remained true to form. We’re the ones who have seemingly taken the bait and fallen for the same ploy he pulled on LOST.

If this turns out the way it looks to be heading, then I am truly lost (pun intended) as to why Abrams would do this again. Does he really think the fans want to be jerked around like this? Especially after the backlash LOST received? Indeed he is behaving just like your immature little friend on the playground. Or is he really that out of touch with the fans?

As you point out @73, once it became clear Khan was no longer going to be a surprise, they could have easily made John Harrison one of the augments discovered aboard Botany Bay, like Joaquin. Just reshoot the scene where he explains he is Khan (better yet, shoot that scene with alternate identities in the first place to give yourself option). That alone would have been fresh for fans. Leave Khan in stasis for another movie that is more Khan-like (general audiences won’t care). I’m also dumbfounded at their lack of imagination at trying to cast Benecio Del Toro (and then just any Latino) to play the part. The whole thing if true wreaks of lack of imagination.

95. BH - April 29, 2013

@89 – I believe he’s referring to his near death upon awakening in Space Seed.

96. Hubcap Dave - April 29, 2013


I somewhat disagree. The few times we did see Shatner’s Kirk play a moment of fury (either controlled or outright), he tended to speak much more quickly (The Omega Glory being a good example), or just trembled and yelled out his Nemesis’ name so loud it echoed out into space……………KHAN!!!!!!!!

97. Curious Cadet - April 29, 2013

@89. Patrick,
“#88 Khan *almost* dies in the prime timeline? Come again?”

In Space Seed, Khan’s stasis chamber malfunctions when they try to open it and he almost dies. It has been speculated since Khan was first proposed here as a possible villain, that someone else besides Scotty and Bones opening the chamber in this universe might not have been able to save Khan and thus he dies, leaving a Joaquin or other survivor to be the new “Khan” (in title).

Would have arguably been a much better story than what seems on track to tell with this latest clue.

98. Thomoz - April 29, 2013

What are the odds that someone will come up with an original and clever story idea for the next movie three years from now? I am afraid the answer is ZERO.

99. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013

I disagree about Pine’s Kirk. Shatner’s Kirk was much more authoritative and professional and in control, like refined steel.

100. somethoughts - April 29, 2013


I think that is near the moon where the Dreadnaught is.

I love the emotion of kirk and the intellect and calm evil of harrison.

I am excited boborci and co listened to their gut and went with the villain who looks and sounds incredible.

Movie looks epic, will be there on the 15th!

101. Tommbe - April 29, 2013

Kirk is angry and traumatised after the devastation he has witnessed and experienced at the hands of Harrison.
I think that before this clip commences Harrison has said something to ‘press’ Kirks buttons, and Kirk let’s loose due to his heightened emotional state, the strain and expectation of his command ability and responsibility on a young commanders shoulders.
In that respect i believe Mr Pine nailed that scene

102. somethoughts - April 29, 2013


I like the idea of khan being intergrated into starfleet, doing km sim, fight the good fight and only turn when confronted by a greater evil or betrayed.

103. Zom B. - April 29, 2013


i was thinking he’d make a great Spock…

104. Patrick - April 29, 2013

@97 OOOOOOOHHHHH right right right. I was thinking about the end of the movie… XD

105. martin - April 29, 2013

I wonder if the next line from this shot is John Harrison, “I grow fatigued…”

Khan, was, after all, a really sleepy guy.

But I still think they are playing with us. (maybe I just want some surprise still).

106. martin - April 29, 2013

@75 –
“John Harrison, can we trust him?”

107. Thomoz - April 29, 2013

Someone here a year and a half ago said what I wanted to say then, and repeat now – so I’ll just quote him:
“5. Spock’s Uncle – December 7, 2011
I will say this, if it IS Khan, I will be VERY disappointed with Abrams, Orci & crew… to go to the trouble of reinventing the entire Trek Universe, creating an alternate timeline, only to return to Khan demonstrates a distinct lack of creativity and original thinking. You have such a clean slate, use it to create something NEW in Trekdom….”

108. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

“You know, Gene Rodenberry would NEVER have lied about anything.”

Seriously? You did hear his stories about making Chekov because of a Russian newspaper…..learn alittle something about the guy before you make those sorta statements…

I don’t think JJ and them “lied” about anything…they just didn’t tell you who Cumberpatch was playing. They refused to say so in any interview. Tried their best to throw people off, and it worked. Anthony spoiled this one a long time ago yet folks still refused to believe. The trailers show a guy with super human abilities, yet folks refused to believe. They used tag lines like “beyond the darkness”..yet folks refused to believe…but nobody lied. Not talked about it, yes. Played with some minor misdirection, yes, but

Sometimes you guys act like someone took a crap in your cereal. Chill out and relax and hope this film does well so you can get your TV Trek back.

109. Josh C. - April 29, 2013

So everyone is going bonkers (deservedly so) about the 72, but what about the coordinates given. Does anyone know enough about Star Trek coordinates to gleam any meaning from them, or are coordinate systems in Star Trek just too random for it to be meaningful

110. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

For those complaining about the originality…it’s just the villain. Folks cried and moaned about wanting to see a TOS villain in the film.

Last time I checked, Khan was only in about 2.5hrs of Trek before this. Last time I checked KHAN was involved in fighting Klingons, not involved in top secret Section 31 antics, not involved in acts of terrorism against London, did not murder most of the command staff of Starfleet command, did not have a chase scene with Spock, did not fight Spock on top of a series of barges in San Francisco, did not set FOOT on Earth in TOS cannon, did not do a space jump with Kirk onto a top secret dreadnought that just got done ripping the Enterprise a new one…..the one in TOS was thawed out by Kirk and not some group of bad individuals in Starfleet, he tried to take over the Enterprise and failed, was marooned to Ceti Alpha 6 with his crew and one other, was married, lost his wife and lived his life on a barren wasteland of a planet and was obsessed with avenging his wifes death, whom he blamed on Kirk…got out, took over a Federation ship and died while fighting Kirk and the Enterprise.

Tell me where this movie’s Khan copies the original Khan and how having Khan in a film is not original when nobody is complaining about the Klingons in the film AGAIN!

111. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

Correction…Khan was NOT involved in fighting Klingons in TOS..

112. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

Ceti Alpha 5…geezus I’m off today.

113. netranger - April 29, 2013

If Harrison is not Kahn then I don’t know how to run a pre approach scan- —- just seems to fit everything we keep seeing– and the characters are now saying……..

114. Kraten - April 29, 2013

Just Fun Info for the anyone waiting for further ARG content – (then Coords he mentions are a Website) currently directs to the UK movie site

115. Zom B. - April 29, 2013

109 –

i thought maybe he was spouting off ‘the numbers’ from lost.

seriously though, it looks like no matter who the villain actually is, BC has done a darn good job with the role…

116. Kraten - April 29, 2013

Still Hoping for a good game yet…

117. sean - April 29, 2013

I don’t know how many times this has to be said, but Abrams had next-to-nothing to do with Lost after the first season. If you want to get on someone for Lost, get on Cuse & Lindelof.

118. Thomoz - April 29, 2013

In the next film, Kirk flies the Enterprise into the Nexus to find God, but instead finds an old Voyager probe which drops a whale on the Klingon moon Praxis, where Spock is negotiating a treaty with Klingons and Romulans. Spock gets killed, after revealing that Edith Keeler was actually his mother.

Yep. Sounds like a crowd pleaser right there!

119. The Mighty Chip - April 29, 2013

This is completely off topic, but I thought you guys might like to know that Virgin Galactic’s newest ship (named the VSS Enterprise) just had her first succesful engine test today. She is in all likelihood going to be the first real-world ship to carry the name Enterprise in to space.

120. Zom B. - April 29, 2013

117 – if you are referring to my post, lighten up dude. just a joke. nobody is “gettting on” anybody.

but – where do you get ‘next to nothing from’? he was a co-creator/ exec producer for every seaon. and weren’t the numbers presented in the first season??

121. Trekbilly - April 29, 2013

James T Kirk is THE MAN!!!
Kirk handles things exactly the way I would.

Love it!!!!!!

122. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

If Batman folks where as whiney and picky as Trek fans, there would never be another Batman film.

In the Nolan films he reused villains featured in previous movies, used plots that were done in dozens of Batman comics back in the day and had actors cover up who they were playing only to be revealed in film as the villain everyone knew they would be….yet folks love those films..even Batman fans LOVE those films..

Same goes with the Avengers movies. Most the plots are just film conversions of Comic books, yet Marvel fans love it, even though they hae seen it a million and a half times.

Wow…just wow sometime.

123. Oct - April 29, 2013


I know right? A fickle bunch indeed!

124. Leo R. - April 29, 2013

Harrison is referring to the crew members of the Botany Bay. This film is a mesh of The Space Seed from TOS and Star Trek II, with a few twists involved. God I hope I’m wrong with the ending of film and I’m not saying a word but if its true, all I’m going to say is…Um really?

125. Josh C. - April 29, 2013

@122 – you just explained why this isn’t bat man.

Villians have been used in dozens of Batman comic books. Reuse and familiarity with the same villains is not unexpected. People would be angry if the villain WASN’T the Joker, for example, BECAUSE he shows up so often.

In Star Trek, the only thing we have close to that are generic villains like “the Klingons” or “the Romulans.” but not really individual villains like Khan, who was in one episode and one movie, and that’s it. He didn’t face off against kirk 23 and 1/2 times. If he did then reusing him may be seen just like having the Joker being the villain in Star Trek

126. ML31 - April 29, 2013

If this guy is Khan then that means the Botony Bay was not found by the Enterprise but rather by others at a MUCH earlier date.

127. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

@125…No, it’s not Batman, but Khan has been branded, by Trek fans and more so by non Trek fans as Kirk’s “joker”…granted he was featured in only 1 episode and 1 previous film, but he was the only one who provided a great challenge to Kirk. He pushed Kirk to his limits, in much the same manor that Joker pushes Batman to his limits.

The bottom line is…it does not matter who is in charge of a Trek movie or TV show there are some parts that will ALWAYS be a factor. If JMS (B5 creator) got to do his TOS Remake instead of Paramount going on with Enterprise, then he no doubt would have featured Khan. The fans would have wanted it. If a we get a TNG reboot we will no doubt get The Borg, as they represented Captain Picards greatest challenge.

Yes, most of the TOS villains were generic villains, but Khan was the one that was made none generic due to his appearance in Star Trek 2 and the impact that film had on all of Trek. He was elevated to that level. He is now the Joker of Trek.

I’m not saying that I like him to be in every remake of TOS, but it does not disappoint me if he is featured. He was a big part of TOS Trek’s timeline. Without Khan, Spock would not have died, Khan led to Kirk losing his son and the Enterprise. Wrath of Khan turned a generic villain into one of Star Trek’s most infamous villains..timeless…a “Joker” for lack of better terms.

I wonder if folks would have reacted the same if he was Kor, if we would have had the same eye rolls and complaints of originality, never mind the fact that Klingons have been in just about EVERY movie.

128. Trekkiegal63 - April 29, 2013

You know, speaking as someone who, yes, is disappointed in the choice of villain, I can say in all honesty that it has nothing to do with ‘lack of originality’, it has to do with what tWoK represented.

First off, it was one of the very few Trek films that was loved by both fans and critics. Roger Ebert gave it a rave review. Rotten Tomatoes has it at 91% (“certified fresh”). The reason for this… it wasn’t just the villain, it was the underlining themes. One of the best write-ups for tWoK I’ve read was written a couple of years ago on AICN, where the reviewer did a “30 years later’ type of spin and elaborated on why ST2 was timeless, why it still strikes a chord even today. The reason? Because the places the characters were at, the place Kirk, specifically, was at ,still resonates today.

The themes of disillusionment, aging, immortality vs. mortality, i.e. wanting to make a ‘stamp’, the hopes and dreams of youth as compared to the actual course one’s life takes. Facing one’s mistakes. And also, that belief in the no-win scenario? Facing the reality that sometimes, even when you win, the cost of that winning can come at a very high price.

And, of course, through that all, friendship. Brothers-in-arms type of friendship from a crew who have spent many years together, had saved each others lives, had reached a place of absolute trust and loyalty.

This crew is not there yet. They are too young, too inexperienced. And to do a “Khan”, any iteration of Khan, without that kind of emotional depth? That kind of power? Makes it seem like building a house without a foundation.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that if you take the villain from the most beloved Trek movie of all time (and for good reason) then it has to mean something. Something more than ‘appealing to those outside the Trekkie demographic and making a summer blockbuster’.

However, that being said, I will wait for the movie before I judge. Perhaps the impact here is also deep in different ways. We’ll see on the 15th.

129. Peter - April 29, 2013

So many are assuming the Enterprise plummets to Earth, based on the trailers. But frame-by-frame shows it’s the Dreadnought that flattens Alcatraz, skips across the bay, and slices up San Francisco. Could it be Kirk, after defiantly commenting that the battered ship isn’t lost, who enters the radiation chamber, re-aligns the pop-rocks, saves the ship – allowing it to stay in orbit and muster one last devastating blow to the Dreadnought? Spock seems pretty upset over whomever is inside. With Kirk dead, that leaves Spock to give chase and duke it out through downtown SF.

130. Enlightenment - April 29, 2013

Assuming we’re still free to speculate, the number 72 is a HUGE clue.

131. The Sinfonian - April 29, 2013

@126 The USS Kelvin scanned the Narada memory banks in 2233. That information from the “future”, or more importantly, the corrected versions of Earth history omitting certain people that had been washed out for some time…. have been in Starfleet’s hands for 26 years now.
What’s next? Wiping out the Doomsday Machine and Whale Probes in advance? Better send back for Humpbacks now, and save Earth the trouble of ST4!
Of course, this explains the Star Trek Ongoing comic books storylines that Orci’s been setting out with Mike Johnson: obviously Starfleet is simply sending Kirk to places “early”.

132. Elias Javalis - April 29, 2013

Man, Cumberbatch is an outstanding actor!!..BBC Actors in general are giants! Classy Voice, frozen look – Great!!

133. Buzz Cagney - April 29, 2013

Credit where its due, Pine looked good there. Can’t help but wonder how Shat would have done it though.

And sorry, but ‘shut your mouth’ isn’t the sharpest bit of dialogue is it. Better than pie hole I suppose, but only just.

134. NCC-73515 - April 29, 2013 links to the movie website…

135. Curious Cadet - April 29, 2013

@125 Josh C.,
“In Star Trek, the only thing we have close to that are generic villains like “the Klingons” or “the Romulans.”

Exactly, the race gives infinite variety and originality with some familiarity, serving as a substitute for the Soviets, and giving us numerous individual bad guys.

If we were talking about bringing back Kruge, only then would it be like Khan. Indeed Khan himself offered original fodder for several Trek episodes based around his race of augments without repeating Khan as a villain. It wasn’t until TNG that Star Trek really started repeating individual villains like Q. But they also gave us the Borg and the Cardassians — a far more effective strategy for the long term than repeating the same characters over and over.

If Khan had anywhere near the kind of cache as the Joker, either among fans, and particularly for the casual audience, then I could see why Khan would be a good choice. Otherwise, I don’t know what purpose he serves, especially if the leaked spoilers are true and Khan’s story could essentially be interchangeable with that of any villain. In fact the only reason I can come up with is he might do it for the fans, which is ironic considering the fallout. From what I’ve read, Khan would be the “Delta Vega” of characters in this movie.

136. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013

110. :”Tell me where this movie’s Khan copies the original Khan and how having Khan in a film is not original when nobody is complaining about the Klingons in the film AGAIN!”


137. JB - April 29, 2013

I have to agree with some of the earlier comments about Kirk looking like he’s in over his head in this scene. I’ve liked Pine as Kirk overall but Shatner’s performance in the following confrontation with Khan is much more satisfying:

138. Jonboc - April 29, 2013

Not having read any of the spoilers, the only thing I know for certain is that JJ is the master of misdirection. From Urban’s slip of the lip about Gary Mitchell to Marcus’ Dehner hair style. This movie will be so full of twists it should star Chubby Checker. I’ll not follow any of the crumbs JJ and the studio is dropping until May 17th, then all will be revealed.

And if it IS Khan, I can’t wait to see how they spin him in the new timeline, this clip looks great!

139. Buzz Cagney - April 29, 2013

#98 they’ll never do it in 3 years- it took ’em 4 years to come up with this. And yes, I do know the story!

140. TUP - April 29, 2013

If he’s Khan im disappointed. I want it to be about Khan but it makes far more sense for him to play a different Augment. Its even better if he does. Fighting for Khan who might still be in sleep.

The excuse that a Mexican played Khan so it doesnt matter if an Englishman does is moronic. This is not a reboot. Khan existed as we know it prior to the timeline change. Therefore Khan should look as much like the original as possible with a new actor. His mannerisms should be similar also.

Cumbersome is a great actor. No doubt. But would have loved him to play one of the “junior” augments.

141. Mike - April 29, 2013

Watch space seed. There was 72 augments besides khan on the botany bay

142. jeffman1701 - April 29, 2013

@Robman007. Cannot agree with you more. These are not the same stories. I personally cannot wait for this movie. I love the what JJ has done Star Trek. I am a big fan of his work. I watch several of his shows and they don’t disappoint. I am sure this version of the stock villain will have a whole new twist. I am looking forward to it.

143. wulf - April 29, 2013

its frekking khan, khan was a “dictator”, everyone knows his face, so they changed it…section 31, hell yeah!

144. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013


That’s an important part of this alternate universe. Producers said anyone can die at any time. I hope that is true and they don’t cheapen their own universe with a cheap way of saving someone.

145. Curious Cadet - April 29, 2013

@144. John from Cincinnati,
“I hope that is true and they don’t cheapen their own universe with a cheap way of saving someone.”

The cheapest.

But well said.

146. Adventure In Quality And Good Taste - April 29, 2013

Cumberbatch to Pine “I am better….”
Pine to Cumberbatch “At what?”
Cumberbatch to Pine “Acting…..”

147. sean - April 29, 2013


Minor quibble, but Rotten Tomatoes is not an accurate measure of how TWOK was received critically. It only has 7 real critics reviews included in its score. Most of the positive reviews are retrospective and not taken from when the movie actually came out. Many film critics were quite unkind to Trek 2, especially with regard to the acting. It really wasn’t until Star Trek IV that critics warmed up to the franchise.

148. Jonboc - April 29, 2013

#146. “Cumberbatch to Pine “I am better….”
Pine to Cumberbatch “At what?”
Cumberbatch to Pine “Acting…..”

Boy, an English accent sure goes a long way with some people. lol

149. Unwanted - April 29, 2013

@140. I find these assertions people make that only someone with certain skin color can play certain characters disturbing, and nonsensical in a Trek fan, who should be above that kind of ethnicist garbage. I wouldn’t give a crap if JJ had made Uhura a “pasty white brit” and Kirk a strong african man, with Scotty a woman, and everyone else changed as much as that craptastic Galactica thing. I am completely colorblind, not in the sense that I don’t see colors, but in the sense that I don’t see skin colors.

Saldana to me is not a “black” woman, she is a HOT woman, and that is all I see when I look at her, and it would not matter what color her skin is.

I can handle a “black” Perry White in Man of Steel, a “black” Kingpin in Daredevil, a “black” Nick Fury in Marvel’s movies, and many other examples of characters whose ethnicity has been changed for movies tv or otherwise. I can handle them without even blinking when I see them, and if Cumberbatch is you know who, then I will be just fine with that too, in fact I hope that if he is mister special K, that they make no attempt whatsoever to explain any “difference” in his look from the old.

Come on people leave this stupid ethnocentricity behind.

150. sean - April 29, 2013


i wasn’t referring to your post at all, but rather some earlier posts that seemed to place the blame for Lost on JJ. Generally speaking, Executive Producers don’t have a whole lot of direct involvement other than putting up the money. For example, Gene Roddenberry was famously shifted to an EP role after ST:TMP, which was Paramount’s way of relegating him to a less active role in the Trek films. When it comes to TV, it’s the showrunner/s that are typically calling the shots.

151. Punkspocker - April 29, 2013

I saw a hint of Sherlock in that scene! (Squeak)

152. oliver - April 29, 2013

Pine is trying a little too hard in that scene. The eyes just a bit too manic but still good.

Cumberbatch is sublime. I take exception to an earlier post. Cumberbatch is a Leading man AND an Actor.

153. psb2009 - April 29, 2013

Very well said.

154. oliver - April 29, 2013

I’d love to see Cumberbatch as the Riddler.

155. Basement Blogger - April 29, 2013

It’s a trap! :-)

Yeah, good Captain, I wouldn’t go to those coordinates. Anyway, now I see why they hired Benedict Cumberbatch. The man is remarkable. What charisma. Wow. I hope he survives this film or is used as another Star Trek character, maybe in a new TV series. . He’s that awesome.

156. Phil - April 29, 2013

@146. Been saying that for a while now. Pine looks like amateur hour in that scene by comparison.

157. ACJG1985 - April 29, 2013

@137… That’s exactly what I mean, Ricardo killed Shatner, absolutely murdered him. Shatner was nothing, nothing compared to Ricardo and that’s why Harve and Myer decided to do Khan because Ricardo was so good he was unforgettable, he made Shatner look so one dimensional as did Christopher Plummer to be honest. If I remeber correctly and again this is paraphrasing but it was said of Ricardo that his portrayal of Khan was so riviting and truly the closet thing to come anywhere near beating the triangle that they had to find out what happened to him. That was the birth of what would become TWoK.

158. Hubcap Dave - April 29, 2013

Pure speculation on my part: The more I watch this clip, the more I get the feeling that Kirk is responding to something Harrison said that pushed his buttons.

159. Hubcap Dave - April 29, 2013

And I’m still not getting why people are treating Chris Pine like he’s Paul Walker……….

160. Mantastic - April 29, 2013

@149 You’re overanalyzing and turning it into some sort of racial discrimination/preference issue. It’s not and it has nothing to do with whether or not someone of a different race can play a character, it has to do with a character’s authenticity within a story.

As it is, everything that happened before the Narada went back in time should be the same, minus the audience overlooking the obvious fact that the actors have been recast for practical purposes. Having Khan be a white British guy violates the storyline beyond recasting.

Regardless of that, to your point here, let’s be honest. If they replaced Chris Pine with Samuel L. Jackson to play Kirk with no explanation, don’t you think that will raise a few eyebrows?

161. Smike - April 29, 2013

72 it is… It’s incredible some people still deny the truth that has been served in small dosages for months now. Just look at the way that character talks in this clip, the way he says Kirk…It’s Ricardo Montalban, with a slightly more British accent. That’s why they cast him. He has that powerful presence, the voice… his ethnicity is absolutely secondary…

162. INS - April 29, 2013

133. Buzz Cagney

“And sorry, but ‘shut your mouth’ isn’t the sharpest bit of dialogue is it. Better than pie hole I suppose, but only just”

No, it’s not the sharpest piece of dialogue. I’m so disappointed with all of this. But I will go see it because I really like Star Trek and this AU universe as well as all the actors/actresses that are playing these characters.

144. John from Cincinnati

“Consequences That’s an important part of this alternate universe. Producers said anyone can die at any time. I hope that is true and they don’t cheapen their own universe with a cheap way of saving someone.”

Agreed. It will be too bad if they go in unbelievable directions.

163. Unwanted - April 29, 2013

@160. I disagree, all of this stupid crap is about ethnicity, it has nothing to do with the story or acting, because these people don’t even look at that. They say “pasty white brit cant be Khan” and that is the entirety of their argument. I also reject the rest of your argument, since at least one theory of time travel maintains that thing happening before the temporal incursion can be changed, completely contrary to the whole “everything before Narada is the same”

I wouldn’t care if they replaced Pine with Jackson, after all the last person before Jackson to play Nick Fury was David Hasslehoff, and there was never any explanation given for that, nor would there be any need for any explanation.

You people keep pulling dubious arguments out of your collective behinds and saying its not about ethnicity when that is ALL I an a lot of other people see in it.

164. Dave M - April 29, 2013

Still doesn’t make sense to be Khan…. why would he work for Star Fleet? his very first action was to try to steal the enterprise in TOS. He would never stoop to take orders when his primary ambition is to conquer and lead.

“It is better to reign in hell than serve in Heaven” – Milton

it also makes no sense that a change in the timeline would make another ship find him sooner.

165. kmart - April 29, 2013

Chris Pine WISHES he was Paul Walker … who in turn probably wishes he was related to James Franciscusm, who was practically the answer to a trivia question compared to Charlton Heston in the APES movies.

Karl Urban smokes ’em all among the regular cast, yet probably has less of interest to do.

Funny you think that way, because I found Kirk in SPACE SEED to be powerfully subdued, which helps Khan ‘blow it’ with the Hitler speech. And Montalban for all his talent was just left adrift for the last past of TWOK. He starts very powerfully, but by the time we hit the nebula he is just a mad dog needing to be put down.

166. JB - April 29, 2013

@157 “…Ricardo killed Shatner, absolutely murdered him.”

ACJG1985, I think you misunderstood my point. I was comparing Pine’s performance to Shatner’s and finding Pine’s lacking. You seem to be commenting on Montalban’s performance in TWOK and that is not at all what I was talking about. However, I completely disagree that Montalban’s performance in TWOK outshined Shatner’s. I thought they were both pretty high in cholesterol content and made for good comfort food. But for my money, I’ll take the performances of both actors in Space Seed any day. Two alpha male characters going head to head, played by two actors at the peak of their abilities.

167. Trekkiegal63 - April 29, 2013

#147 sean:

Ebert Chicago Sun-Times excerpt (written in 1982):

…Khan is played as a cauldron of resentment by Ricardo Montalban, and his performance is so strong that he helps illustrate a general principle involving not only Star Trek but “Star Wars” (1977) and all the epic serials, especially the “James Bond” movies: Each film is only as good as its villain. Since the heroes and the gimmicks tend to repeat from film to film, only a great villain can transform a good try into a triumph.

New York Times excerpt (written in 1982):

NOW this is more like it: after the colossal, big-budget bore that was ”Star Trek: The Motion Picture,” here comes a sequel that’s worth its salt. The second Star Trek movie is swift, droll and adventurous, not to mention appealingly gadget-happy. It’s everything the first one should have been and wasn’t.

Toronto Globe (written in 1982):

A funnier, faster, altogether more energetic film than Star Trek I, The Wrath of Khan doesn’t linger over its modest special effects.

Variety (written in 1982):

Star Trek II is a very satisfying space adventure, closer in spirit and format to the popular TV series than to its big-budget predecessor.

Time excerpt (written in 1982):

One leaves the film with a pleasant sense of having caught up with old friends and found them to be just fine, pretty much the way one hoped they would turn out in later life.

… those are pretty much the biggest names a film could hope to receive good reviews from (at least, they were in ’82). Good enough for me!

168. ACJG1985 - April 29, 2013

@166… No I was actually talking about Space Seed. I do understand the point made about Cummberbatch out classing Pine but also felt I needed to point out that Ricardo in Space Seed in particular made mince meat out of Shatner. You need a strong, cool, calculating, methodical person to pull off Khan. The paraphrase actually comes from the special features of the Directors Cut of the Wrath of Khan where both Harve Bennett and Nick Myers came to the franchise as non-Trekkies and watched all the Original Series and the one guy who stood out to them was this guy Khan Noonian Singh and especially Ricardo’s performance which was mesmerizing, he truly challenged what Harve felt was the core of Star Trek, the triad and so felt they needed to explore where Khan was now and that was why TWoK was born. Hopefully that’s made the opinion a little clearer

169. Keachick - April 29, 2013

Stop confusing the actors with their characters.

It is not Pine who is out of his depths. It is KIRK who is struggling to be the assertive, forthright captain that he should be, in this scene.

170. Lt. Daniels - April 29, 2013

I’m thinking it’s 72 androids that look human.

171. Mayday - April 29, 2013

Am I the only one that thinks that this could mean 72 crew members that are agents undercover against the Federation (like the father) and not the 72 from Khan’s crew? The number 72 could just be a nod to the original series.

172. I'mNOTthe1701 - April 29, 2013

Haha everyone is complaining Cumberbatch is going to over power Pine in the acting department?

Helloo? Has no one seen Wrath of Khan? Montalban blew Shatner out of the water. I think this is purposely done.

173. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

I’m pretty sure the “shut your mouth” will be within reason, given what this man has done to Kirk and others he values.

174. Phil - April 29, 2013

It’s not just the shut your mouth comment – BC, at a serious disadvantage at the moment, is portraying the character as cool and under control. CP, on the other hand, is coming across as an afraid ensign. I’ll allow that the production team wants Kirk to be the simpering child at this point, waiting for Kirk to have his ‘come to Jesus’ moment later in the story. Problem is, based on Pines past performance history, I’m not sure he has the chops to pull it off.

Remember Michael Keaton’s Batman? Same problem.

175. Coastie - April 29, 2013

@171 – It is an observation, not necessarily a complaint.

176. John - April 29, 2013

My guess is John Harrison is not one of the Botany Bay 72. He has been duped into doing something for Admiral Marcus that has shattered his belief in Starfleet. He wants Kirk et al to understand that they are pawns too in a larger game where they are all being manipulated. That said he will not let Kirk and his crew stand in his way. Starfleet has taken a darker turn as a result of the new timeline and factions within are aware of the location of the Botany Bay and the frozen augments (from Spock Prime?). John has somehow used DNA from one of the 72 (perhaps Khan himself) to augment himself so he can get revenge for the perceived treachery. My thoughts are they will unite towards the end of the film to bring down Admiral Marcus’ plan to create a race of super soldiers. I also think there will be a closing scene of Khan himself standing proud and ready to do some real damage….

177. Coastie - April 29, 2013

Sorry I meant @172.

178. mrjava - April 29, 2013

if (harrison == khan) {
writers = lazy;
this = sad;

179. Erehwonnz - April 29, 2013

I like both performances in this clip. Pine is actually quite talented at portraying moments when his words are just barely come out right because of some high emotion. Take the “Shut your mouth!” moment here, which sounds like anyone’s lackluster language when trying to control immense emotion, or his announcement of the “lightning storm in space” on the bridge of the Enterprise, the awkward syntax of which belies deep nerves and adrenaline.

If nothing else, Pine is a much better actor than Shatner, and at least more likable. I know that’s a bit blasphemous.

If Cumberbatch turns out to be Khan, I simply look at it a retelling of a key piece of the Trek mythology, and what’s the point of stories if not to retell? Fans will get to see a story reinvented; nonfans will not blink at the name nor assume a backstory. Sounds good to me, and everyone is entertained.

It would also, if true, be another instance of the universe attempting to “mend itself.” Works for me.

180. Phil - April 29, 2013

Oh, I’ll still go see the movie. If it turns out to be a decent retelling of existing material, maybe even twice. If not, it’s turn up of FX soon enough…

181. Tin-plated overbearing, swaggering dictator with delusions of godhood - April 29, 2013

I believe we’ve already seen one of the 72 in the picture of the torpedo-like device being moved…

182. Matt - April 29, 2013

179. i agree with you 100 percent.

183. BH - April 29, 2013

That klingon argument is pure strawman. If the same klingon appeared over and over then it would be apt. Otherwise you’re missing the mark. Same with the Joker anaolgy – this isn’t Batman.

184. TUP - April 29, 2013

@149. Big difference between changes in Superman and changes in STID. Superman is a reboot. They can take creative lisence. Especially with some of the supporting characters. They would never make Superman a black man or a Russian.

If Star Trek was re-booted, I could handle some changes. Khan exists as we know him in this universe. And to be honest, I was okay with the idea of BC as Khan earlier on. But I just think if he *is* Khan and the plan was to go with Del Toro and they couldnt get him, they could have altered the story.

Im not going to get to angry about it because I have a feeling if he *is* Khan that he will do a wonderful job. But they are drastically changing a character that is canon.

Maybe if they show us a flashback of the Botany Bay being found and a long haired BC emerging from sleep looking as much like RM as possible…

185. JB - April 29, 2013

@168 – Thanks for clarifying but if you’re saying Montalban “made mince meat” out of Shatner in Space Seed, I couldn’t disagree more. Yes, Montalban’s Khan is everything you want in a villain and strongly charismatic. But Shatner’s Kirk, while openly acknowledging Khan’s charisma, is one cool and confident character, evidenced in both his interview of Khan in Khan’s quarters and at the reception where he gamely lays a trap for Khan, whose superior intellect is overcome by his superior ego. I don’t want to take anything away from Montalban because I thought he was outstanding. But Shatner’s portrayal of Kirk leaves no doubt as to who is in charge on the Enterprise. I particularly like his understated reaction to Khan’s line that Kirk is inferior both mentally and physically. There is a slight smirk on Shatner’s face and a hint of amusement in his voice when he says “Why? Because I’m not a product of controlled genetics?” In that split second, he’s saying, I’ve taken your measure, you clearly have issues and you don’t threaten me.

@169 – Keachick makes a fair point here. I just think Pine’s overdoing it a bit in this scene. But it’ll be interesting to see the entire scene.

186. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013


What if Starfleet in AU finds Khan sooner thanks to Prime Spock or data mined from Nero’s ship? Then, Starfleet Section 31 extorts Khan into working for them by holding his fellow augments as “frozen hostages”?

187. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013


I think it’s also important to point out, not to take anything away from Shatner, but Shatner also had better dialogue in TOS than Pine does in these movies.

188. Basement Blogger - April 29, 2013

@ 5

Hey Aurore,

First, I hope you are well and everything is great in France. But you know what I’m going to say here. And let me say, you will not incur the Wrath of Bernie. We know where you stood on the BC is Khan thing. But you were nice about it. Yes, my fellow Trekkers, watch Space Seed or just wikipedia the episode. The number 72 in the above clip is a gigantic hint. ( @ 3, 4) It’s probably not 72 bottles of Scotch on the Enterprise. Sorry Scotty. Though, it could be 72 bottles of the green stuff.

The Wrath of Bernie.

Red Dead Ryan, MJ and myself took a lot of abuse for deducing that BC is Khan. Others challenged our intelligence, and called us idiots. I defended Anthony Pascale’s reporting and his sources. With all the information that is now coming out,, I’m going to say “For I have returned to have my vengeance.” Okay, I won’t say it as well as BC. :-)

As far as whether BC is Khan, I can hear the Fat Lady warming up.

189. Hubcap Dave - April 29, 2013


Very well said.

190. Captain, USS Northstar - April 29, 2013

Just my two cents’ worth, but I think we’re going to end up with two antagonists in this movie — the BC character and possible Admiral Marcus. I think there’s more there than meets the eye.

I also agree with those commenting that the scene is “taken out of context” to explain Pine/Kirk’s reaction to BC/?. It’s a clip — there have been events leading up to this moment, there will be more leading out. We don’t have the whole yet.

If Kirk goes to those coordinates, what will he find? Some think the BB — I wonder if the Vengeance is waiting there? (I hope that last bit of speculation doesn’t get me kicked out.)

191. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013

Having Klingons in STID is less original than having a retconned Khan.

192. martin - April 29, 2013

If BC is KNS, can we finally get off the complaint that in STIITWOK that KNS remembered PAC and PAC was never shown in SS?

193. mcflycat - April 29, 2013

Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British. Khan isn’t British.

194. Ran - April 29, 2013

@ 187

Very well said!

195. mcflycat - April 29, 2013

Whats next? An Argentinian Superman? An Eskimo Batman? A pink Darth Vader?

196. martin - April 29, 2013

@190 I don’t think the dreadnaught will be at those coordinates, because in the trailer we see the dreadnaught warping to stop in front of Enterprise, not the Enterprise warping the the dreadnaught.

Although it could be a trap to get Kirk to go there and then the dreadnaught comes in to attack.

Or perhaps the dreadnaught is not really warping in, but instead decloaking.

197. Phil - April 29, 2013

@188. Well, I count myself as one who would have preferred not to see WOK 2.0. Still don’t think Harrison is Khan, but can concede the point that the story is inspired from the events of Space Seed/Eugenics Wars. So Khan could very well be among that group that BC is representing.

Don’t recall getting to snotty about it, that was just my preference. And if I was, I’ll extend my apologies now. I’m hoping the production team is doing the story justice – if they don’t STID will end up descending into parody very quickly…

198. DOUG GROSS - April 29, 2013


199. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013


Khan wasn’t Latino either. Khan wasn’t Latino either. Khan wasn’t Latino either. Khan wasn’t Latino either. Khan wasn’t Latino either. Khan wasn’t Latino either. Khan wasn’t Latino either. Khan wasn’t Latino either.

200. JB - April 29, 2013

187 John from Cincinnati – I agree. Dialogue comes from the writers and Shatner generally had better lines in the series than Pine has had so far. Coon was a fantastic writer. As for the current team, I had a chance to read the full script of the last movie and some of the lines – along with the writers’ profanity-laced descriptions of the action – were truly awful.

But there have been good moments as well. My favorite Pine-as-Kirk scene so far, in terms of both the writing and the acting, was the hearing at the Academy where Kirk and Spock confront each other. In that scene I thought Pine truly came across as a younger version of the Kirk we see in the series.

201. Joe - April 29, 2013

oy for the love of god you nay sayers are ruining this movie for me. i feel like going on an internet sabbatical until May 17th. it’s a movie. it’s suppose to be fun. don’t take it too seriously.

202. Tom - April 29, 2013

Didn’t Khan have 72 or so cryogenic units?

203. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013


I agree with you about that scene. There were flashes of the old Kirk in that scene.

204. Mantastic - April 29, 2013

@163. I’m not speaking for “these people”, it’s just my opinion. I don’t see anyone saying that Cumberbatch shouldn’t be Khan because he’s a white British guy in reality and incapable of it, it’s because he’s not one in the story of this established world. Also, where in this story was it established that altering the future can also change the past? That’s not mentioned anywhere in ’09 or it’s supplemental canon material. Of course, they’re going to change things just for the purposes of retconning to make it more modern looking (i.e. the supposed Botany Bay pods), but that’s besides the point.

Hasslehoff was Nick Fury in a TV show that’s in a completely different universe than the one the current Marvel movies are in. That argument is invalid.

I’d like to think that my arguments come from somewhere other than my behind. I’ll be respectful of your points and discuss them politely, and I expect you to do the same. I do think that you’re reading far more into it than what it really is.

205. Tom - April 29, 2013

This seems a bit too emotional for Kirk?

206. Doug Gross - April 29, 2013


Aye Captain………………

207. Basement Blogger - April 29, 2013

@ 193


I’m sorry, could you repeat that again. Did you say Khan isn’t British? :-)

Um, are you suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder?

You then say, (195)

“Whats next? An Argentinian Superman? An Eskimo Batman? A pink Darth Vader?”

Well, how about Darth Vader being the father of Luke SkyWalker? Oops.

208. Flake - April 29, 2013

Its a bit of a scene in isolation, we have no idea why Kirk is so upset to start with.

209. Flake - April 29, 2013

Trekkie meltdown in progress!

Guys take a break from the hype train and just go see the movie when it comes out, only then we can properly debate it until we are green in the face :) – Squabbling over snippets and clips and dodgy spoilers doesn’t do anyone any good now does it.

If all the spoilers of ST09 where laid bare by some random internet chap there would have been an even bigger meltdown than the one we are witnessing now. When we actually _see_ the movie perhaps we can come in here and say: ‘well, you know what? in-spite of a-b-c-x-y-z that movie was great fun!’

210. John from Cincinnati - April 29, 2013

KIRK: How many alive?
SCOTT [OC]: Twelve units have malfunctioned, leaving seventy two still operating. Thirty of those are women.
KIRK: Kirk out. Seventy two alive. A group of people dating back to the 1990s. A discovery of some importance, Mister Spock. There are a great many unanswered questions about those years.
SPOCK: A strange, violent period in your history. I find no record what so ever of an SS Botany Bay. Captain, the DY-100 class vessel was designed for interplanetary travel only. With simple nuclear-powered engines, star travel was considered impractical at that time. It was ten thousand to one against their making it to another star system. And why no record of the trip?
KIRK: Botany Bay. That was the name of a penal colony on shores of Australia, wasn’t it? If they took that name for their vessel
SPOCK: If you’re suggesting this was a penal deportation vessel, you’ve arrived at a totally illogical conclusion.
SPOCK: Your Earth was on the verge of a dark ages. Whole populations were being bombed out of existence. A group of criminals could have been dealt with far more efficiently than wasting one of their most advanced spaceships.
KIRK: Yes. So much for my theory. I’m still waiting to hear yours.
SPOCK: Even a theory requires some facts, Captain. So far I have none.
KIRK: And that irritates you, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: Irritation?
KIRK: Yeah.
SPOCK: I am not capable of that emotion.
KIRK: My apologies, Mister Spock. You suspect some danger in them?
SPOCK: Insufficient facts always invites danger, Captain.
KIRK: Well, we’d better get some facts. Rig for towing.

KIRK: This Khan is not what I expected of a twentieth century man.
SPOCK: I note he’s making considerable use of our technical library.
KIRK: Common courtesy, Mister Spock. He’ll spend the rest of his days in our time. It’s only decent to help him catch up. Would you estimate him to be a product of selective breeding?
SPOCK: There is that possibility, Captain. His age would be correct. In 1993, a group of these young supermen did seize power simultaneously in over forty nations.
KIRK: Well, they were hardly supermen. They were aggressive, arrogant. They began to battle among themselves.
SPOCK: Because the scientists overlooked one fact. Superior ability breeds superior ambition.
KIRK: Interesting, if true. They created a group of Alexanders, Napoleons.
SPOCK: I have collected some names and made some counts. By my estimate, there were some eighty or ninety of these young supermen unaccounted for when they were finally defeated.
KIRK: That fact isn’t in the history texts.
SPOCK: Would you reveal to war-weary populations that some eighty Napoleons might still be alive?

211. Weizentobi - April 29, 2013

This could give us an explanation to why Chekov has a red shirt and is in nearly none of the footage so far! Chekov wasn’t around when Kahn came aboard the Enterprise in the prime universe! Maybe they tried to recreate that situation by stationing him in engineering or some kind of phaser array chamber! I actually like the idea!

212. Basement Blogger - April 29, 2013

@ 176


Don’t agree with your theory but I will say that I could be wrong about BC being Khan. You could be right that this is Khancentric story. One about the augments. But one important thing. This site has reported that BC is playing a canon character. So here’s what we know from the trailers, videos and interviews on this site.

John Harrison is

1) A canon character
2) Coming back to earth for vengeance.
3) Has super strength.
4) Is better than Kirk at everything. And I’m not talking about with the ladies..

213. Flake - April 29, 2013

The above will probably have been retconned, infact I believe the date of the Eugenics Wars was changed in ENT to be in the 2050s-2060s? Abrams may have retconned it again?

214. Jack Aubrey - April 29, 2013

I broke down and read some of the reviews coming out of Australia. At first, I was disappointed with what I found out about the story but today’s clip has really got me excited about the possibilities!

215. Aurore - April 29, 2013

188. Basement Blogger – April 29, 2013

Hi, Mr. Wong!
I’m fine, thank you.

“As far as whether BC is Khan, I can hear the Fat Lady warming up.”

Then, my dear Bernie, we will talk when the fat lady sings.

Otherwise, the post I could type right now might “disappear”.


We’ll talk freely in a few days.
I hope you enjoy the movie, Bernie.

216. Gold Coast Rob - April 29, 2013

Cumberbatch’s prescence puts Pine’s to shame. His delivery reminds me of Patrick Stewart at his very best.

217. Aix - April 29, 2013

I love this! Whether he’s Khan or not. I like that he’s not overly costumed and not over-the-top. I’m digging the calm but creepy thing going on.

218. Marja - April 29, 2013

214, Jack, I love your name!

I think Pine is communicating all the horror and anger the events at Starfleet HQ raised in Kirk. Contrasted with Cumberbatch’s cool villain, it’s easy to say Cumberbatch is “better” – he’s cooler in this scene and is suppressing some emotion and manipulating a very emotional man who’s almost out of his mind with anger. He’s way younger than ShatKirk, so not experienced as a captain. If it were Pike opposite Harrison, Greenwood would have been able to pull it off with a cooler demeanor, because Captain Pike has years of experience on young Kirk. So I think it may be more the particular scene than the actors involved that mostly puts Pine at a disadvantage. Always remember, villains are much more fun to play than leading men, because actors can bring many shades to their characters.

Cumberbatch is British, and for the most part, British actors knock Americans on their butts because of their superior dramatic training. Also Cumberbatch has a few years on Pine and numerous roles to his credit [more opportunities to hone his craft]. Not an excuse exactly, but a call to everyone to be a little fairer in their assessment of a relative newcomer in comparison with an actor at the height of his powers. Kinda like comparing Harrison Ford with Anthony Hopkins, or Jonathan Frakes with Patrick Stewart, y’know?

219. Donald Carlson - April 29, 2013

Harrison’s image is reversed in the clip, notice the star fleet emblem. I understand why it would be flipped (it’s an old cinematic principle that the reverse angle have the two actors in the same position, I.e. looking left or right) but it’s sloppy filmmaking if this isn’t fixed digitally in post. 72 is a clear shout out to Space Seed, as previous shots in trailers have shown suspended animation chambers. Note that Harrison says on “your” ship, not on “this” ship, which leads me to believe the brig scene is not taking place on the Enterprise.

220. JB - April 29, 2013

219 – His image is not reversed. You are seeing Kirk’s reflection in the glass or whatever is separating them.

221. Aix - April 29, 2013

@169 Exactly!!!

222. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - April 29, 2013

@219. Donald Carlson

I think you are mistaken. Harrison’s emblem is on the correct side. However, the reflected emblem from Kirk’s uniform is actually more prominent visually. It is that one your eye is being drawn to.

223. lodownX - April 29, 2013

He ISN’T Khan… just another augment. – like Khan.

224. Giez - April 29, 2013

I’m anxious for the 15th to get here. Won’t watch the clip above… I’m trying to avoid as much as I can.

I hope BC makes it somehow, so they can do a REAL “WRATH OF someone” when they are all that age as TOS STII… :)

225. The Original Spock's Brain - April 29, 2013

Well there you have it: Khaaaaaaan!

226. Borjy - April 29, 2013

So if he really is who we think he is… he is going to be Khan and Smaug in the same year??? Life is so unfair!!! Haha.

227. porthoses bitch - April 29, 2013

72…I do belive I called this a few weeks back with a certain image release.

228. Cant Wait Fer ST:ID - April 29, 2013


Now THAT is intriguing. I gotta see this movie.

229. Jonboc - April 29, 2013

I’m so tired of hearing how Khan can’t be British. When are people going to get that this is an alternate timeline…all things are NOT equal…that’s the whole point. Vulcan CAN be destroyed. Spock’s mother CAN die. Kirk CAN have green eyes…and yes… Khan CAN be British. I’m not sure why or how, but if I learned nothing else from the first film, I learned that all bets are off.

230. Jonboc - April 29, 2013

…oops…Kirk can have blue eyes…lol…which he does…now.

231. TrinaInUS - April 29, 2013

Even if Cumberbatch is playing Khan (I’ll say the word since many others in this thread have), this is in ways a far different story, and it looks like it’ll be quite good, if not outright awesome.

232. Dr. Fridgehead - April 29, 2013

Oooh. Nice scene.

Eh…sorry to everyone saying this is Khan because he says “I can give you 72…and they’re on your ship. They’ve been there all along.” I’m just not buying it. That’s not conclusive of anything. I’m sorry, it isn’t. It’s coincidental, not conclusive evidence and there’s little of that evidence to reach such a conclusion based on this clip alone. If this is Khan, 1) he’s out of character, 2) 72+1, what’s that make?, 3) he hasn’t been on the Enterprise all along. Sorry. I’m struggling with this theory. It just doesn’t add up. If it does in theaters, then I’ll be wrong and it will be a big cop out in the end. But, right now, it doesn’t add up and people are jumping to conclusions too soon. Some of you even predetermined the movie sucks and they’re not going to see it based on the foregone conclusion of who the villain is alone. Really? Really? Hey, if you don’t want to see a movie, you don’t need to make excuses. Just don’t go see it. Simple. As for me? I AM A MA-…er…I mean, I’m going to wait and have a look-see. Then, I’ll determine whether I like the movie or not, despite who the villain turns out to be. I’m not going to claim that I have it all figured out or that I have all the answers or that I wrote the script or that I was the PA bringing coffee and sweets to the cast and crew and therefor know how the movie goes. I have a PHD and a fridge for a head. That’s good enough for me.

233. A Guy - April 29, 2013

@193 – maybe JJ retconned it to where India uses to be a British colony or something.

234. A Guy - April 29, 2013


235. Jack - April 29, 2013

That’s my favourite movie theatre ever, btw.

236. DoctaJones - April 29, 2013

BC kinda looks more like Kahn’s right hand man in TWOK. IMDB calls him”Joachim”. He seemed to know more about running a starship and seemed a little more cool headed in that movie too. Maybe they de-thawed that dude and Kahn is still on ice. I dunno

237. Aix - April 29, 2013

Love how Harrison alternates between “Mister” and “Captain” when he addresses Kirk. It’s like, I’m asking you as a man not as an officer.

I know get what Giacchino said about the performance, you really get a lot from it. This has a lot of re-watch potential!!!

238. What is it with you? - April 29, 2013

# 16, # 33, #34, #40, #74 and every other repeat whiner in the comments….

This is why I always say Trek fans are the best and WORST fans of all. I can’t get over how many people come on here to complain about the same trivial things! As if they owe you anything? As if you own Star Trek?They gave you thousands of hours of TV for free. They aren’t forcing you to see the movies.

Repeat after me!


Still don’t understand what I’m getting at? Please read on.

Most of the whiners believe JJ and his team are “kicking you in the teeth” because of the following:

1) They lied about Khan…
2) Pine can’t act….
3) They made me wait for FOUR YEARS…
4) This is a retread…I want something new!
5) My favorite character didn’t make it in!
6) Scotty/Kirk/Spock would NEVER act this way!
7) It’s too commercial!

Please read the following responses to these complaints….

1) So, they wanted Khan to be a surprise? Oh dear! Better sue them for trying to surprise you and everyone else! Did your parents ever have a surprise birthday party for you? Did you hate it, or did it make it more fun? Did you really believe they wouldn’t throw one for you? They made an effort to surprise you because surprises are fun! Remember fun?!

2) Pine can’t act? Really? Did you see Trek 2009? Objectively, he’s a far better actor than most of the original cast. He’s replacing Shatner for Pete’s sake and you complain he can’t act? Get some perspective! He’s great!

3) Why did they make you wait four years? They stated that they wanted to get the script/story right! Yes, that’s the reason! I guess they don’t care about Star Trek! I guess they don’t care about the fans – who needs a good story? Just throw in some technobabble and it will be good!

4) You don’t want Khan (if it is him)? After getting to know him for three whole hours? So this means you want to watch Batman without the Joker? Superman without Lex Luthor? How about Sherlock without Moriarty? It’s the same for Star Trek. Yes, Khan is the ultimate TOS baddy – he killed Spock, for Pete’s sake! I don’t want to watch new TOS without a new Khan. I sincerely hope it is him – and if not, bring Khan on for Part 3!

5) You want Garth from Izar, or some other underdeveloped lame character that only 10% of Trek geeks even know about, to be the focus of the movie? Oh sure – let them spend 200 million on a lame character that wasn’t even popular in the original series. Like that was even a possibility… did I mention how much money they are spending on this movie?

6) Why do they act different from TOS? Well, I thought it was pretty clear…the timeline has changed! Their lives and experiences are different…Kirk didn’t have a father and Spock loses six billion kin. I certainly hope they act differently! But, still these new movies make it clear that the core characters HAVE NOT changed. They are archetypes and always will be.

7) It’s too commercial! I darned well hope it has commercial appeal! Because if it doesn’t, you don’t get anymore Star Trek to complain about! I can put up with some explosions, and running, and girls in underwear to ensure more Trek come my way.

P.S. Seriously, who complains about the girls/guys in underwear anyway? Did you watch TOS? There was more skin on a weekly basis on TOS than we’ve ever seen in these movies. In fact, I would say they aren’t honoring TOS if there wasn’t half naked people running around most of the time!

You hear that Orci!? More skin! I won’t let you rape my childhood!

So, in summary, please stop complaining about every little thing. They are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on new Trek for us to enjoy. So, pay your 15 bucks enjoy it! And if you can’t, for the lame reasons above, save your money, shut your gobs, and pop in a DVD. Stop flogging it. No one cares, and you are all annoying the crap out of everyone who is a) trying to enjoy this or b) would prefer to spend our time in the comments thinking critically about the new movie.

End of my rant.

239. Michael Hall - April 29, 2013

Well, I though that scene was just fine. Including the acting by both participants.

Jonboc, even given the loopy time travel/alternate universe premise of the last film, all bets are definitely not supposed to be off. Prior to the temporal incursion of Nero (ugh) and his crew of dopey Romulan skinheads, in theory the two universes should be precisely the same. Making concessions to advances in production design and an actor’s eye color are one thing. Changing the ethnicity of an existing character that has already been addressed in dialogue as a plot point is entirely another, and begs explanation. (In fact, assuming that turns out to be the case I’m guessing that one will be forthcoming.)

Abrams and the Supreme Court could have avoided any issues of continuity by simply doing a total reboot, as Ron Moore did so successfully with Galactica. In their telling, out of respect for fandom and what had gone before they developed the alternate universe hybrid model instead. Fine, but now I expect them to play by their own rules.

240. tribbleorlfl - April 29, 2013

So, if the rumors/speculation are true and Harrison is indeed Kahn, then I find the “72” reference to functioning cryo units lazy writing, kind of like the “Federation is a humanitarian and peace-keeping armada” line from the first reboot film. Shouldn’t it be “71 reasons, and they’ve been here the whole time, as Kahn was one of the 72.

241. Giez - April 29, 2013

yeah… 72+1 =’s 73… unless he counts himself in the #’s… hmmm maybe an error there if this is going that way…

242. Michael Hall - April 29, 2013

Not necessarily. It all depends on how you interpret that line of dialogue from “Space Seed,” as to whether it was meant to include the already-defrosted Khan or not. But “peace-keeping armada” certainly was a bad piece of writing.

243. kmart - April 29, 2013

If you were SERIOUS about “thinking critically about the new movie,” you wouldn’t be trying (and failing miserably) to stifle legitimate dissenting views. So to use your own style of scree, why don’t you:

shell out the ninety bucks to see it six times opening weekend (adding 30% to your total if you’re interested in seeing 35mm film made grainer through blowup to IMAX);

then come back here and explain how wonderful it is, whether you really believe it to be so or not;

get back in line again to maintain your status as sycophant rather than discerning devotee.

And if you think any group of people, even amateurs, would take four years to come up with THIS script when so much is riding on it, you’re mistaken. There were probably occasional discussions, some roundtabling and such, but I don’t think any serious work was done on executing this screenplay until at least half of your four years had elapsed.

But then again, going by YOUR OWN WORDS, if you think Pine is a better actor than most of the original cast, what you think is well & truly meaningless.

244. miketen - April 29, 2013

On Memory Alpha and Wikipedia it states there was a total of 72 survivors on the Botany Bay, including Khan. So Harrison is not Khan if he was referring to Bontany Bay survivors.

Then again he could have been referring to 72 bottles of beer on the wall in the brewery, er, engine room. Take one down and pass it around…

245. kmart - April 29, 2013

in popular culture there is already a standard for screwing up casting well beyond this, with casting that uglyass looks like he lost an acid fight short dude Craig to play James Bond, a character who should always look to be at least the second sharpest looking dude in the room, not the henchman’s villain or Felix Leiter AFTER the shark attack (both roles Craig WOULD have been suited for.)

246. miketen - April 29, 2013

On another note, hopefully Spock Prime left a message in Kirk’s mind during the mind meld to not defrost the Botany Bay crew.

247. kmart - April 29, 2013

You are so right it ain’t funny, especially about Keaton.

248. Riker001 - April 29, 2013

@22. Agreed…this clip says alot I think…in this timeline Admiral Marcus & his daughter did not create the Genesis device but rather Khan’s “Superior Being” race. The Admiral was told to shut the program down and he did however…kept Khan around as he was probably the best of the best. Once Harrison/Khan figured out what was going on…he went on his mission to free the remaining (and surviving) 72 members of his crew while getting his vengeance on what Admiral Marcus & Starfleet has done to his kind.

However…that could all be wrong…as my theories change with each passing trailer and clip! :-P

249. Michael Hall - April 29, 2013

“On Memory Alpha and Wikipedia it states there was a total of 72 survivors on the Botany Bay, including Khan. So Harrison is not Khan if he was referring to Bontany Bay survivors.”

LOL. Memory Alpha and Wikipedia are websites, however laudable, and not infallible dispensers of Trek lore, let alone the truth. Presumably the authors of those articles had the same information–I.e. that single, somewhat ambiguous line of dialogue–that is available to the rest of us, including the writers of this film.

250. kmart - April 29, 2013

I understand what you’re saying, I just disagree with it completely. Kirk, in whatever universe, is still going to be the alpha. Even if he is facing a more powerful or intelligent opponent, he still has that swagger built in. The moments of genuine introspection for TOS Kirk usually happen in his quarters, either alone or with McCoy …. they do NOT happen when he squares off with the antagonist. The idea that this Kirk supposedly ‘isn’t there yet’ is as weak as the notion of a nearly 40 year old guy is playing a rookie Double-0 in CASINO ROYALE — you can say it, but nothing will make me buy it.

Even if Kirk is supposed to be having this growth issue, that is a failing of the script. But its Pine’s failings that he is playing the material if that is how they intend it to go, because this is again pulling away from Kirk THE CHARACTER in favor of some generic hero that fits the hero’s journey template (in other words, more STAR WARS crap inflicted on TREK.)

It’s a lot simpler to think Pine just doesn’t have it, and it MIGHT be that is only part of it. The more detailed and accurate view mayb e to say the failing is in the whole creative process for the Abramsverse.

251. DonDonP1 - April 29, 2013

Wow, Captain Kirk chewing off John Harrison like a tough cop and a tough Drill Instructor combined. Cool!

252. Jonboc - April 29, 2013

#239 “Fine, but now I expect them to play by their own rules.”

That’s a fair statement and I would hope that the powers that be will have answers to our questions unfold within the context of the upcoming film. Fingers crossed!

253. tribbleorlfl - April 29, 2013

242. Yes, definitely the dialogue is ambiguous as to whether Scotty is including or excluding Kahn. I always assumed it was including, simply because Scotty was giving an “all day” report on the technical condition of the BB. Even though Kahn had been removed from his cryotube, it still would have been functioning.

That being said, I went back to the script and found this exchange, which pretty much confirms 72+1:

(A little later, and Khan is sitting up more)
KIRK: James Kirk, commanding the starship Enterprise.
KHAN: I see.
KIRK: And your name?
KHAN: I have a few questions first. What is your heading?
KIRK: Our heading is Starbase Twelve, a planet in the Gamma 400 star system. Our command base in this sector. Is that of any use to you?
KHAN: And my people?
KIRK: Seventy two of your life-support canisters are still functioning.
KHAN: You will revive them.
KIRK: As soon as we reach Starbase Twelve.

254. Cody - April 29, 2013

Since he says there are 72 “reasons” adored the enterprise who have apparently been there ‘all along, and since Harrison has obviously not been on the enterprise for long, and was certainly not assigned to the ship, AND since Khan is one of the 72 survivors of the botany bay… it indicates that Harrison is NOT Khan… Since seemingly he hasn’t been there ‘all along’…. I don’t know, just a thought, but I’m going to laugh at all of you khan fanatics if it turns out the Harrison is not Khan, and I’m pretty sure he’s not.

And by the way, I think Chris Pine does a great job in this scene.

255. Cody - April 29, 2013

“The idea that this Kirk supposedly ‘isn’t there yet’ is as weak as the notion of a nearly 40 year old guy is playing a rookie Double-0 in CASINO ROYALE — you can say it, but nothing will make me buy it.”

And he ended up being the best Bond ever, whether you bought it or not. ;)

256. RBanks - April 29, 2013

Here we have one of the most talented actors in the business playing what could be one of the most intense and memorable villains in the history of the franchise. I think that’s a great thing.

I hope Harrison is revealed to be Khan, because I would love to see what an actor of BC’s caliber could do with the character. If Harrison is indeed Khan, I think bringing back an old character we know into a totally new story and universe will make for a thoroughly entertaining film.

257. falcon - April 29, 2013

I’m tellin’ ya…

The villain in this whole thing is Admiral David Marcus (the name from canon referred to by boborci many moons ago) who found the survivors of the Botany Bay (or whatever you want to call it) in cryotubes, and John Harrison (perhaps a scientist or fellow weapons specialist – note the black shirt with the Starfleet/Enterprise delta) wants to study them further – but Marcus wants to use them for his own nefarious ends, and when Harrison finds out he begins a campaign of terrorism against Starfleet. When Kirk captures and confronts him, he learns the true nature of Harrison’s mission and decides to join him, going as far as Q’onos…and when Marcus discovers Harrison and Kirk have teamed up, he takes the USS Vengeance to kick the Enterprise’s butt, only to wind up taking out Alcatraz and part of SF as it crashes into Earth.

Not spoilers, haven’t read any reviews, but judging from the clips and the other spoiler-y stuff on TrekMovie lately, that seems like a likely path for this plot to take.

258. RBanks - April 29, 2013

@ 257-

I think that would be an interesting plot/scenario.

259. Magic_Al - April 29, 2013

^253 It’s Khan plus 72. At the time of the count, Khan not only had been removed to the Enterprise but his tube would have been counted among the non-functioning, as it has failed during the revival process and would have killed Khan except Kirk broke him out of it.

260. Robman007 - April 29, 2013



261. Trekbilly - April 29, 2013

People picking on Pine for his performance in this clip? Why?!

He comes of as HUMAN and is reacting as real person would!

Loved it!! Can’t wait till the film comes out!

262. What is it with you? - April 29, 2013


“THIS script”? So you’ve had a chance to read the script have you? Sounds like you are the one who has already made up their mind.

I haven’t seen it yet, so I won’t tell you if I like it. I can tell you I generally like what I’ve seen so far. I can tell you what I don’t like, if you want. Here’s a couple:

1) The Enterprise underwater. And in a planet’s atmosphere in general. The physics simply do not work.
2) The swimsuits. They look cheap.
3) That Khan isn’t racial similar to R.M. I love Cumberbatch, and I can look past it, but they’ve already established that they are trying to cast actors of the same ethnicity/race.

As for Pine – honestly compare him to Takei, Kelly, or yes, even Shatner. Compare him to most of the TNG cast, or Voyager. He’s a fine actor, by any Star Trek standard. If you don’t see that, then you really are biased…

Finally, you are probably right – they did take their time on the script. But Orci kept us well informed on his progress in these very comments. I believe him, because I’ve written similar things, and I understand how even your favorite projects can be sidelined by other work (and yes, he had other commitments). If you can’t get it hammered out in the time you have to work on it, sometimes you need to shelve it and move on for several months. It happens. If you’d ever done anything similar you’d understand. You obviously don’t.

Have fun hating the movie simply because you are stuck in 1982. You will no matter what I say to make you see sense. Go play your DVDs and enjoy yourself.

I’ll give the new movie a try – and yes, maybe even six times if I enjoy it!

263. RBanks - April 29, 2013

@ 260-

I’ll second that.

264. Scott McDonnell - April 29, 2013

I just hope that the writers don’t get STUPID and try to over think or over dramatize everything. What made Ricardo Mantiban an amazing Kahn was that he was so evil yet he had that charm to him that magnetism. I hope we see that. I also hope we see Kirk able to out think Kahn.

“You fled, why were you afraid?” (Kirk)
“I’ve never been afraid.” (Kahn)
“But you left at the very time man kind needed courage.” (Kirk)
“We offered the world order!” (Kahn)
“We?” (Kirk)

This is one of the best Star Trek scenes. It shows the intelligence of both men, yet kirk is able to out think him.

265. JB - April 29, 2013

238 – on Chris Pine: “Objectively, he’s a far better actor than most of the original cast.”

No, that is not objective. That is you stating your opinion, which likely is no more or less qualified than anyone else’s on this site.

266. Michael Hall - April 29, 2013

“And he ended up being the best Bond ever, whether you bought it or not. ;)”

Yep. Sorry, kmart. We all have our hobby horses to ride–mine was Trek 2009–so I grok your pain, I truly do. But for my money, it’s all a question of attitude, which Craig has in spades. I knoe that Connery is still considered the gold standard in the role, and fair enough. But at the very least Craig makes Moore and the rest of those poseurs look like fat, pampered playboys by comparison. And while I had some issues with SKYFALL they were entirely unrelated to his performance. His Bond is boss.

267. Red Dead Ryan - April 29, 2013

Yeah, once again kmart shows his ignorance towards the new movies. He wasn’t around the writers when they wrote the STID script, so how the hell does he have the nerve to tell us how its going to turn out?

And his “opinions” on Daniel Craig as James Bond are equally as asinine.

268. Robman007 - April 29, 2013

Huge difference in Shatner Kirk vs Khan then Pine Kirk vs Khan. Khan is able to manipulate Pines Kirk due to Kirks lack of experience. Khan was unable to manipulate Shatner Kirk due to his experience level.

Khan was a tough opponent for the original Kirk..he’s going to be a viscous opponent for a green Kirk who may be undergoing some emotional turmoil due to the killings of folks close to him.

269. Donald Carlson - April 30, 2013

Looking at the high Rez version on apple’s site, what I too to be a flipped image is actually Kirk’s emblem reflecting on the glass. Eep.

270. Mcflycat - April 30, 2013


The time line shifted at Nero. Long after 1996 and the eugenic wars. Khan can’t be British. Unless of course you want to spit in the face of all star trek lore, shifted timeline or not.

271. Mcflycat - April 30, 2013


Khan was played by a Latino playing an Indian. Is BC supposed to be playing an Indian? Because from what I’ve seen he’s doing a bad job of it.

272. Commodore Adams - April 30, 2013

72 aboard ship…….72 of 84 survived…….cryo units….men walking out look like harrison and Khan.

273. Mcflycat - April 30, 2013

Everyone should read the book “the first 150 years of the federation” to get a better understanding of the eugenics war. If BC is playing the European leader it makes a whole lot more sense than khan.

274. Commodore Adams - April 30, 2013

270. Mcflycat

Not entirely true. There was a time where the British Empire ruled India. Just as there are MANY ethic east Indians living in Great Britain I am sure there are Sikhs of English decent living in India. But with the cryo tube scene in the trailers and what looks like two men walking out, one looks like Cumberbatch, the other on the left like Khan. I doubt BC is Khan…BUT…he may also be Khan, just not the one that we know.

275. Mcflycat - April 30, 2013


With that logic… There was a time the British empire ruled parts of north America. Should Kirk have a British accent?

276. boborci - April 30, 2013

238. What is it with you? – April 29, 2013

Call me ‘Bob.’


277. L4YERCAKE - April 30, 2013

Chris Pine is AWESOME in this scene and will be flat out spectacular as Kirk in the movie, I just can’t understand those who are complaining about him…!

278. Mcflycat - April 30, 2013


They OWE me a good film if they want to OWN some of my money. That’s how entertainment works. The fans “own” the franchise… Not paramount, not CBS. We decided if it lives or dies with our hard earned money.

279. Harry Ballz - April 30, 2013


We’re on the lip of having the movie released here in North America.

Other than telling us that our faces will melt, do you have any final comment regarding the movie BEFORE the onslaught of amateur reviews from the unwashed masses?

280. L4YERCAKE - April 30, 2013

Hi Bob! Love the Robert April solution you put in the Countdown series, it’s smart and perfect. Sorry I complained about the art a while back, not that anyone necessarily noticed, but I was out of line and premature. Can’t wait til May 15th.

281. L4YERCAKE - April 30, 2013

I always think of the commentary on Star Trek 2009 where they stated the immediate question that came to everyone’s mind in the end, regarding the villain of the sequel. I wonder what you all asked yourselves upon completion of this one…?

282. Mcflycat - April 30, 2013

Yeah pines a good alt Kirk. I’ve utterly convinced myself that BC isn’t Khan. Orci wouldn’t trash khans story to fit a round actor into a square role… Would he???

283. Mcflycat - April 30, 2013

Don’t get me wrong… I love BC, but it would be like watching him play Nelson Mandela or Desi Arnez. Desilu productions anyone?

284. martin - April 30, 2013

Watched the first scene of Kirk & Khan talking in Space Seed today. I take it to mean that there are 72 functioning tubes after Khan awoke.

But keep in mind that the other 12-13 tubes failed at some point over time between 1996 and 2267. One of those tubes could have still been functioning in 2258 – so you can really read 72 any way you want.

But this still reeks of diversion. It could very well be Garth or Norman or Mitchell or Finnegan who found out about some plan with the Augments and that is who John Harrison really is.

285. china - April 30, 2013

#218 Pine is only 4 years younger than Cumberbatch. You make it sound like Cumberbatch has had years and years more experience than Pine. Actually Benedict started relatively late as he did a 4 yr degree then drama school.

286. Robert Oyler - April 30, 2013

In “Space Seed” writer Carey Wilber’s original plot treatment, the character of Khan was a Nordic superman named Harold Erricsen. The first draft of the script introduced the character as John Ericssen…Harold Erricsen…Harrison…John Harrison…Cummbi is KHAN!!! Also…Abrams hinted that because of the alternate timeline created in the first film, reintroducing Khan into Star Trek lore remained a possibility. Abrams told MTV, “[Khan and Kirk] exist — and while their history may not be exactly as people are familiar with, I would argue that a person’s character is what it is,” Abrams said of the notion that his Khan could be just as evil, even if Kirk never stranded him on Ceti Alpha V. “Certain people are destined to cross paths and come together, and Khan is out there… even if he doesn’t have the same issues.”

287. KirksLove - April 30, 2013

Montalban was white. He wears makeup as Khan, who is an Indian. Cumberbatch is white. Is there a better white? Is Cumberbatch whiter than Montalban?
This discussion is so ridiculous. Cumberbatch is obviously playing a British person in this movie. If he’s Khan, it will be a British version of Khan. A new version. That’s more political correct than having a white Mexican in makeup playing an Indian.
The whitewashing debate is ridiculous, and the “You can’t replace Montalban” whining is ridiculous. What we have here is one of the greatest living actors. Cumberbatch can replace anyone. He will be a great British villain, Khan or not Khan.

288. Aix - April 30, 2013

If he is indeed Khan, I wonder how they’ll handle the issue of whitewashing. Social justice warriors will jump on this in an instant, hating on everyone involved.

But I don’t think he is. So, cool.

289. Michael Hall - April 30, 2013

“This discussion is so ridiculous. Cumberbatch is obviously playing a British person in this movie. If he’s Khan, it will be a British version of Khan. “

Not half so ridiculous as a pasty-faced British actor playing a character previously described in dialogue as a Sikh from the north of India. That is, assuming he’s playing Khan at all. If he is, I fully expect that Mr. Orci and Co. will provide some sort of explanation, whose plausibility will then be up to the rest of us to judge. But to suggest that no such explanation is necessary, that Cumberbatch is just playing a “British version” of the character–well, there is indeed whitewashing going on here, but it doesn’t have anything to do with makeup.

290. Jim Nightshade - April 30, 2013

yah cumby in thisclip does say kiiirk with the same sneer ricardo did…its so close its a tribute…

291. yrch - April 30, 2013

BERLIN: The iBridge has landed! At least some part of it…and it has been stripped of all lensflares!

292. yrch - April 30, 2013

BERLIN: The iBridge has landed! At least some part of it…and it has been stripped of all lensflares!

293. Dan - April 30, 2013

Seriously guys am I the only one who can see this…

Cumberbatch is a quality actor, but in keeping with Khan’s ethnic identity the absolute perfect casting choice would have been JAVIER BARDEM, who was an epic villain in Skyfall and would have aced it as Khan.

294. Josh C. - April 30, 2013

I don’t have a problem with Cumberbatch being Khan, if that indeed is who he is, per se, though I would have hoped that they would have more creativity than that.

What I’m concerned about is that they’re going to completely change the character of Khan and/or basically trying to remake TWoK, though I suppose any use of Khan is likely halfway to remaking TWoK as it is, especially if done in a movie.

Telling me that there is a scenario where Khan ends up working FOR Starfleet is asking me to take a pretty big leap of faith.

295. Geek Girl - April 30, 2013

Heeheehee. In 1 hour and 2 minutes it will be only 9 days before it opens in Oz. Sweeeeeet!

296. USSEXETER - April 30, 2013

@293 I agree, I said after the 2009 film that if JJ & Company ever do a Khan story Javier Bardem would make the perfect Khan!

297. Jonboc - April 30, 2013

The suspended animation tubes just don’t make sense. Harrison tosses Kirk the “72” as if to surprise him. The camera zooms in as Harrison reveals 72 reasons..that they’ve been “here” all along. On the Enterprise? Wouldn’t Kirk know if these things were on his ship…so why would that be a big revelation?
Naturally, I can see fans jumping to the Khan-clusion, because of the number itself… but I have trouble making the connection given the context of how the number was used in this scene. Maybe 72 bombs Kirk didn’t know about…or 72 plants who have infiltrated his crew…but huge cyro tubes or even, at the very least, the occupants of those tubes? Why on earth would Kirk be surprised by that? If they were carrying that kind of cargo he would know it.

298. Curious Cadet - April 30, 2013

@284. martin,
“the other 12-13 tubes failed at some point over time between 1996 and 2267. One of those tubes could have still been functioning in 2258 – so you can really read 72 any way you want.”

Excellent point. In fact to be an agent in Starfleet, khan would have had to be revived significantly prior to the events of this film. Basically Khan could have been revived anytime between 2233 and let’s say 2255 at the latest. And remember that Khan’s chamber did not fail until 2267 as he was being awakened. So yeah, to say all of those other tubes failed prior to 2233 is kind of convenient (or unimaginative), but nevertheless not impossible.

However, doing a search for the number 72 on Memory Alpha produces top hits as the surviving members of the Botany Bay, so unless this number has absolutely nothing to do with canon, it’s a fair bet it’s Khan related.

299. - April 30, 2013

“No, it’s not Batman, but Khan has been branded, by Trek fans and more so by non Trek fans as Kirk’s “joker”…”

No he hasn’t. Not on a large scale. Maybe by five trekkies here.

I think delivering a Khan film right after two Wrath of Khan knock offs is a mistake even if the film does make money.

I expect it is Khan now.

300. Curious Cadet - April 30, 2013

@213. Flake,
“The above will probably have been retconned, infact I believe the date of the Eugenics Wars was changed in ENT to be in the 2050s-2060s? Abrams may have retconned it again?”

I doubt it. Abrams will simply not explain it (which is what I and other have been saying all along about that original date should Khan come to pass). My guess is that if Marcus really is using Khan for some stupid reason — I mean really, what does Khan bring to the table that warrants integrating a “superman” who once ruled 1/4 of the Earth’s population into your top secret organization — then all records of his existence (which Spock had trouble locating in Space Seed anyway) will have been erased. So unless Khan volunteers this information himself, it’s not likely to come up, at least the part about his role in Earth politics in the 90s anyway. I fully expect any use of Khan will likely confirm his age, which probably won’t change from that established by canon, since it won’t matter anymore without a context. Of course Khan could have a ‘do you know who I am!?’ moment … but considering the debate it would dredge up the filmmakers likely won’t let him.

301. tribbleorlfl - April 30, 2013

296. Well, there is that mysterious torpedo/tube we’ve seen in the promotional picture being loaded onto the E. It seems big enough to fit a person in. What if there are 72 of them? What if they’re being used as collateral against Harrison?

302. Josh C. - April 30, 2013

@296 – Assuming he’s Khan (and there are reasons, that, i’m unfortunately, begrudgingly, starting to think he is) I’m not sure he means “here” in the literal sense, though it’s possible that Admiral Marcus hid them on the Enterprise.

I think it’s also possible. He means “here” as in data in their computers about the Botany Bay, or, possibly, the fact that their existence has driven Starfleet’s assignments for Kirk since he got command

303. Josh C. - April 30, 2013

@297. 12 tubes failed over the course of, what? 260 to 270 years? That’s, on average, 1 tube failure every 20 years, assuming they are evenly spaced out. It’s certainly not unbelievable that all of those tubes had failed by then.

And it wasn’t really that Khan’s tube “failed” like the others. It had a problem waking him. But there’s no evidence he couldn’t have kept going in suspended animation for a much longer time.

But yes, I agree, if he is Khan, and he is an agent, it’s possible if not probable that he has been one since even before the events of the first movie, meaning that they may have found him even before Spock Prime showed up.

@213, 299 – as I understand it in current canon, the Eugenics War started in the 90s, but continued, in some variation, up to World War III in the 2040s, in an attempt to reconcile Spock saying the Eugenics War was the last of our “World Wars” in Space Seed and World War III being in the 2040s in First Contact.

So there is a lot of ambiguity there. Maybe the “tyrants” took over in the 90s, got overthrown, Khan left, but then they reasserted themselves later. *shrugs.* But there isn’t really anything that suggests Khan didn’t leave in 1996.

304. Michael Sussman - April 30, 2013

Great clip! FWIW, “Enterprise” kept the Eugenics Wars timeline from TOS. No retconning. If you don’t recall those dangerous, war-torn days, I humbly suggest you may be from an alternate timeline.

305. martin - April 30, 2013

My guess/hope if it is Khan, that Marcus or whomever has not been blackmailing Harrison with the “72” the entire time of his employ as an “agent”. In that case it is going to be hard to explain why Harrison put up with such blackmail at all. Khan would have been trying to kill Marcus and whomever since day two.

It would clearly make more sense that he had been lied to and told that the “72” were dead from the start, and then somehow discovered they were still in popcicle form (though the starfleet archive access?).

Also, it would be something if it turns out that he actually was a rival of Khan, or someone wanting to revive Khan. If Khan is in the movie, but still sleeping it would be uber cool if he was shown sleeping and was a cgi of Mantalban as young Khan. A cgi model of a frozen face would look very real, especially through any frost and lensflares.

306. Dave M - April 30, 2013

John… it’s possible… anything is… but Kirk was holding Khan’s crew suspended as well. He refused to revive them until they reached a star base (12?) What did Khan do? Went and got them anyway. I see no reason he wouldn’t still follow the same pattern and revolt against any power considering themselves higher than him. – 2-dimensional thinking.

307. Dave M - April 30, 2013

I think he’s Kodos the Executioner! ;)~

308. JimJ - April 30, 2013

Khan or no Khan, I am psyched for this movie!! Honestly, I prefer that he NOT be Khan. However, I am a big fan of JJ/Orci Trek, so even if it is…they’ll have to blow it for me to be upset.

309. Travis - April 30, 2013

It you fellow Trekkies want more evidence then I believe the series ” Enterprise ” will help! Since Archer’s engagement of The Augments I believe Section 31 may have decided to go after the Botany Bay! I’m starting to have this feeling that not only did Section 31 find the Botany Bay but Admiral Marcus has his hands in this as well! A young Captain James T. Kirk vs A young Khan Noonien Singh…. JJ Abrams may have out smarted us all again!

310. Josh C. - April 30, 2013

@309 – again, assuming this is what actually happens…

I don’t think Enterprise going after the augments made Section 31 go after the Botany Bay. Or if it did, that alone wasn’t enough since both the prime universe and this one share Enterprise as a common history. If that was enough, they would have found it in the prime universe as well.

Either Nero’s incursion or the resulting increasing threats toward the Federation by the Klingons caused them to either start searching or increasing their searches for it, or otherwise caused Starfleet to find it earlier than it did in the prime universe.

Of course, that doesn’t necessarily explain how Khan would come to work for Section 31…

311. Jinnto - April 30, 2013

#293 are you joking? JAVIER BARDEM is Spanish, he wouldn’t be right for Khan ethnic-wise, and as an actor, Cumberbatch is no less epic than Bardem either, I’m saying this as a long term fan for both actors.

312. SirBroiler - April 30, 2013

It’s pretty clear what’s going on here – but I still pray that if we’re talking augments and the Botany Bay that John Harrison is Joachim or some other crew member and that we meet Khan at the end. Making Cumby Khan is just a bad move after all the detail put into casting the other roles. He’s great – but he’s no Khan.

313. Shawn Richards - April 30, 2013

I don’t know if you can read anything into this but I noticed that when Harrison is talking, you can kind of see the mirror image of kirks uniform on harrisons body, as if to say that he’s really the one in charge, not Kirk.

314. Keachick - April 30, 2013

#307 – Yeah, I get that vibe as well.

315. scottevill - April 30, 2013

I’m gonna go ahead and make some predictions now. . .

1. That brig scene scene takes place just after their return from the Klingon homeworld, where Harrison f***ed them, and Kirk beat him into submission. (Still no idea what drives them there in the first place, though.)

2. This is the scene where Harrison reveals his true name and history to Kirk.

3. All hell breaks loose almost immediately – if not immediately – thereafter, leading into a final act that plays like the second half of “Space Seed” with a 175 million dollar budget as Khan’s people break cover and take the ship. Kirk and crew fight back – and in the process, the ship is torn apart from the inside… and ends up nearly crashing to earth.

4. Interesting that the character we’ve been told is Carol Marcus has another name too – just like Harrison. Coincidence? Or is Carol Wallace not just Admiral Marcus’s daughter, but another one of their “top agents,” and perhaps even one of Khan’s 72.

Just speculatin’.

316. Aurore - April 30, 2013

“If he is indeed Khan, I wonder how they’ll handle the issue of…….”

I am sure they’ll think of something.

They are better at everything….

317. kmart - April 30, 2013

48 years of seeing Bond movies in the theater ended w/ SKYFALL. I skipped CR and only saw it on homevid, which may have been the wisest course imaginable.

The last legit Bond films for me were the Timothy Dalton ones, this guy and the stories they’re telling have nothing to do with the cinematic Bond or the literary one — they snip incidents from the books and include them in the WRONG context, which totally undermines using them in the first place.

Pearson’s ‘bio of 007′ Bond (which is the closest anybody has come to recreating Fleming, even better than Amis) has more maturity and credibility at age 17 than Craig brings in the whole of CR. I could have bought a much younger actor playing him so ‘off’,’ (Cavill would have been perfect, plus he LOOKS the part), but then you’ve still got the terrible plotting (killing agents to get their cellphone info because they are so unprofessional they don’t commit important secrets to memory), which is excusable in moronBondflicks like the Moore era, but you can’t say ‘it’s only a bond movie/roll with it’ while treating it like it is a serious drama … it’d be like Cumberbatch in TINKER TAILOR shooting his way out of the circus, to bring this vaguely back to Trek.

318. kmart - April 30, 2013

If I WERE stuck in 1982, it’d be for THE ROAD WARRIOR and THE THING and most especially BLADE RUNNER. As much as I like TWOK, it ain’t THAT special.

And yes, I work as a writer (which is why I had to see QUANTUM, which I am sort of cool with, ADD editing aside, and SKYFALL), so I am aware of the issue of hitting dead ends on projects. When you’re working with these kinds of situations, however, with so much riding on it, it is often wiser to bring in another party to keep it going. Example: Harlan Ellison had one episode of writer’s block, during the scripting of BOY & HIS DOG. Rather than wait it out, the film’s director scripted the rest of the film (everything after page 7 I think), and with the exception of the last line in the film, Ellison is cool with it.

As for knowing the script … no, I know the general beats of the story, but that coupled with the scenes available jive with most of my expectations, which weren’t good. There are aspects that intrigue me, with respect to Kirk and Scott and their interaction, but that’s about it, outside of my admiration for Cumberbatch.

319. Mcflycat - April 30, 2013

Just to be clear to everyone that thinks BC IS Khan… Khan isn’t British. So he’s not Khan. Unless of course Orci and company ruined Star Trek lore… Which I just can’t believe… Lets be real here, it would be like making Sulu Russian, or Scotty Canadian, or making Khan British.

320. Tiger - April 30, 2013

@ 319

MANY of us believed and said the same thing in the past. Just be prepared for any possibility at this point. Just sayin, just sayin!

321. The Keeper - May 1, 2013

The best thing Star Trek has going for it has been a long enduring fan base.
The worst thing Star Trek has going for it is a long enduring fan base.
The major problem with fans is that they are so close and hold Star Trek so dear to themselves they become short sighted as to the possibilities.
Everything you may think you know about this up coming film is all an illusion.
The very first trailer told you that point blank.
You think that you are safe in your interpretations of the clips released.
You think your guesses and jumping to conclusions because you believe in what must be the obvious clue is the answer.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
The deceptions of the rumors were all designed to mislead the so called superior intelligent Trekker to your conclusions about the story line just a mere two weeks away.
Abrams wants you to be totally surprised…at how wrong you are based on what surely must be the obvious.
Don’t you see, he’s toying with you.
He wants you to assume.

322. Alex Nguyen - May 1, 2013

It’s KHAN!!!! We all know it! And the leaks on the internet prove it!!! It’s not set in stone that it’s KHAN

323. Aurore - May 1, 2013

“Just to be clear to everyone that thinks BC IS Khan… Khan isn’t British. So he’s not Khan. Unless of course Orci and company ruined Star Trek lore… ”

Just to be clear, as far as I’m concerned if Benedict Cumberbatch is *Khan Noonien Singh*, I will not be cheering, to put things mildly. But, what you refer to as ” Star Trek lore ” will…* not *… be ruined for me.

However, in my opinion, talking about certain topics with credibility might become complicated for Mr. Orci and his colleagues in the future.

When “everything” is official, I’ll speak my mind on the issue.

324. Michael Hall - May 1, 2013

“The last legit Bond films for me were the Timothy Dalton ones, this guy and the stories they’re telling have nothing to do with the cinematic Bond or the literary one — they snip incidents from the books and include them in the WRONG context, which totally undermines using them in the first place.

Well, maybe so. I’m no real fan of the Bond saga; in truth, I’ve never read any of Fleming’s books. But regarding the apparent disconnect from the source material–well, really, how could it be otherwise? Bond was a creation of the Cold War, which officially saw its conclusion in 1989. Given the spectre of increasing global chaos as opposed to the merely bi-polar balance of terror we lived with for two generations, I’m frankly amazed that the character has managed to make a successful jump to a modern context at all.

(Sometimes I have suspected that contextual issue may lie at the heart of my problems with Trek 2009. While I’ve detailed on many occasions my specific issues with everything from the screenplay’s lapses of logic, poor character motivation, and scientific illiteracy, what I think really galled me most of all was its profound, button-pushing cynicism. Like Bond, TOS was essentially a creature of the Cold War. It was many things, and not all of them good. But cynical wasn’t one of them.)

In any case, of course you’re free to dislike Daniel Craig and his take on the character all you like. I have to say in passing, though, that for a professional writer your criticism strikes me as pretty personal–e.g. “ugly-ass ape”–and vituperative. That’s not very helpful, even if you believe (I certainly don’t) that there are objectively right and wrong answers to this sort of question.

325. Classy M - May 1, 2013

@322 – Well, if it’s on the internet it MUST be true. Right?

326. Astrophysicophile - May 1, 2013

273, 303. Actually, in the entire franchise, the term “Eugenics War” was only used in one instance, in “Space Seed”. However, the plural of the term, “Eugenics Wars”, was used multiple times. So, the Eugenics “Wars” may not have been one protracted war that lasted decades, but a series of wars, like the Thirty Years’ War, Eighty Years’ War, and Hundred Years’ War. So, 303, this fits your idea that the tyrants reasserted themselves after Khan (and eighty three other tyrants) left, but they did it again and again, Colonel Green being one of the last ones.

Since “Space Seed” also referred to the Eugenics Wars as the last so-called world war, and another Original Series episode “Bread and Circuses” and the movie “First Contact” implied that the Third World War was the last world war, then the Eugenics Wars and World War III were one and the same.

303. I like your attempt to reconcile the reference to the last world war in “Space Seed” and the reference to the Third World War in “First Contact”, but “Space Seed” also referred to the mid-1990’s as the era of the last world war, implying that World War III began in the mid-1990’s.

Also, in “First Contact”, the Enterprise (and the Borg sphere) arrived in the past in 2063, approximately ten years after the Third World War. This means that the war ended around 2053.

“Space Seed” also indicates that after the superman seized power simultaneously in over forty nations in 1993, they began to battle among themselves. This implies that the Eugenics Wars was not only a series of wars over a period of around sixty years, but clusters of wars around the world.

In any case, to give “Into Darkness” of being the future of our world, so that it would be relevant to current affairs, how do we reconcile the period of the mid-1990’s to the 2010’s in Star Trek’s back story to our world? Perhaps, the supermen not seized power around the world, but they also started a revolution that affected every aspect of civilization, not just genetically (Eugenics) and technologically (the DY-100 class of spaceships), but also culturally, and the cultural side of the revolution could have included revising the calendar by shifting the year 0 forward by several decades.

327. CPT Tom - May 2, 2013

Nuclear-powered vessel of the DY-100 class, which was Earth’s standard interplanetary transport of the late 20th century. Named after an infamous Australian penal colony, the S.S. Botany Bay was converted into a “sleeper ship” and launched in 1996 with refugees from the Eugenics Wars, namely Khan Noonien Singh and his band of genetically-bred “supermen.” The launch was kept secret in order to not alarm a war-weary population that the tyrant who controlled more than one-fourth of the planet from 1992-96 was still alive. After being defeated in Earth’s Eugenics Wars, Khan and his followers hoped to find another world to conquer and rule.

The Botany Bay drifted in space for over two centuries with its passengers in suspended animation, until the U.S.S. Enterprise discovered the sleeper ship near the Mutara Sector in 2267. The ship’s automatic systems attempted to revive Khan first — being the leader of the group — but malfunctioned in the process, forcing the Enterprise crew to intervene and save the historical figure. Captain Kirk intended to keep the other passengers in stasis until the Enterprise reached Starbase 12 with the Botany Bay in tow, but Khan defied security and transported back to the sleeper ship to revive his crewmates to begin an insurgency. Of the 84 original passengers, 72 survived, 30 of them women. The Botany Bay was discarded in deep space when Khan attempted to commandeer the Enterprise, but a variety of belongings were retained (such as a collection of classic books and a seatbelt) which found their way to Ceti Alpha V, where Khan and his people were eventually exiled.

328. Astrophysicophile - May 2, 2013

327. Oops, the last paragraph should have been: In any case, to give “Into Darkness” the illusion of being the future of our world, so that it would be relevant to current affairs, how do we reconcile the period of the mid-1990′s to the early 2010′s in Star Trek’s back story and the same time period in our world (as well as the year 1996 in the Voyager episode “Future’s End”)? Perhaps, the supermen not only seized power around the world, but they also started a revolution that affected every aspect of civilization, not just genetically (Eugenics) and technologically (DY-100 class spaceships, suspended animation), but also culturally. And the cultural side of the revolution could have included revising the calendar by shifting the year 0 forward by a few decades (which a shorter time span for the wars), so that 1993 on the new calendar would coincide with 2026 on the old calendar, the year in which World War III begins, according to a historical archive screen from the Enterprise episode “In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II”.

329. iwc - May 2, 2013

72 mnnnn

330. Astrophysicophile - May 2, 2013

304. In 328, I attempted to provide an alternative to your humble alternate timeline suggestion of we don’t recall the dangerous, war-torn days of the Eugenics Wars.

331. kmart - May 2, 2013


I appreciate your reply and thoroughness greatly.

If I seem vicious and OTT in the attacks on Craig, it is because a performance is more than the talent of the performer involved. A handsome actor can be made to look bad through lighting, for example. But to cast somebody who is physically so WRONG based on what has gone before in print and on screen, and to do so apparently because Ms coproducer has had the hots for him since seeing TOMB RAIDER, is just wrongheaded on top of wrongheaded.

As to Bond and Trek being a product of their times … well, that is no doubt true. But the print Bond was usually (up till 1959) fighting the russians, whereas the film Bond was fighting the apolitical supervillain agencies. So right there you’ve got a whole different kettle of fish, since I’m not aware of the existence of a real-life version of SPECTRE during the cold war (that is as opposed to SMERSH, which was based on an actual Russian organization.)

So my notion of Bond and what he stands for IS malleable (and Bond’s own values in print are as well … in the first novel, he has a huge spiel where he talks about how what is perceived as evil communism has shifted a lot in half-a-century, and that in another era they’d’ve been fighting against something else entirely.

TREK is something I think that should be able to translate to other eras … not because it is using some built-in Campbell mythos (though Abrams seems intent on doing the SW/Campbell thing to it anyway), but because the characters are just that good. The optimism thing is one that on TOS was measured, as there was cynicism then as well, but not a megadose.

332. Cumber Bun - May 5, 2013

C’mon folks, you equate Cumberbatch’s British accent and wavy dark bangs with out-acting Pine!?! If that’s the case, take all the starving artists in London and send em to Hollywood, cause Britain’s Got Talent! is represented by Gorilla Nation. Please contact Gorilla Nation for ad rates, packages and general advertising information.