Exclusive: Saldana Not Ready For Spock/Uhura Pon Farr + Win Zoe-signed iPad Mini from a+ mag | TrekMovie.com
jump to navigation

Exclusive: Saldana Not Ready For Spock/Uhura Pon Farr + Win Zoe-signed iPad Mini from a+ mag May 16, 2013

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Contest,Interview,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Speaking exclusively with TrekMovie, Star Trek Into Darkness star Zoe Saldana explains how she got a fight scene for Uhura, why she isn’t ready for Spock and Uhura to settle down and more. Watch the video below and also find out how you can win a new iPad Mini signed by Saldana (courtesy of the new a+ iPad Magazine).  

 

Saldana not ready for Spock and Uhura to settle down

It was late in the day when I sat down with Zach and Chris and you can see it at the beginning where they were cooling themselves with bags of ice. But regardless of the junket fatigue we pressed on. Watch it below.

Highlights

Zoe Saldana on how she got Uhura a fight scene for Into Darkness

At first it felt like it was a personal mission for me – a personal desire. And then as the years kept going I kept thinking that it would feel like a natural evolution for Uhura. Yes, she is part of Starfleet and graduated from the acadmey as a xeno-linguist, but to work in a military kind of profession you would have to be trained with some kind of military form of defense. At some point you are going to be used because all the boys are busy. I don’t know if I did this on purpose–trying to find reasons to justify my cause, but I did. And I know deep down that JJ And Damon and Alex and Bob felt that it would be great for her to do and I was happy. 

As for the next movie, Saldana wasn’t sure what she wanted (except for one thing)

I don’t know where I would want to see Uhura. Definitely not married!…She has things she has to accomplish first.  

But what about dealing with Spock’s Pon Farr? While Saldana didn’t know the name for the Vulcan 7-year mating drive, she was familiar with the concept.

A baby? On the Enterprise? Oh my god no! Not yet. Maybe by Star Trek 4 or 5 we can have a couple of Vulcans.

Saldana also talked about if she would like to see her Uhura become more like the classic TOS Uhura [Question from Craig of Columbus, OH]…

No. I hope not. Right now women are taking–having more participation and task-making. So I would assume that in our future, given our society today, their version of the Star Trek in the future–and I think it is a wonderful contribution to the franchise–is for women to have a more significant participation than just looking beautiful.

Saldana also said that speaking Klingon in Into Darkness was harder than speaking Navi in Avatar, explaining…

The pronunciation required a lot more effort [for Klingon]. It was a very deep tone that I discovered as I was learning it.

As for the next Avatar movie, Saldana said she expected to start shooting the sequel "early next year." She aslo confirmed that she would be in the new Marvel film Guardians of the Galaxy (playing the alien Gamora) [see previous TrekMovie article], but said she was just starting the process for that film including fitings but she was "just as excited but also just as curious" as everyone else over it.

Saldana Debuts New a+ Digital Magazine – win iPad Mini Signed By Zoe

Zoe Saldana has a cover story feature for a+, the new entertainment magazine experience covering music, film, fashion & style exclusively available on iPad and iPhone. The new digital magazine (from former GIANT Magazine editor-in-chief Smokey Fontaine) is full of videos, portfolios & celebrity interviews crafted specifically for the digital platform, not "optimized" to fit.


Zoe Saldana is the cover feature for new a+ iPad/iPhone Magazine

To celebrate the launch of the inaugural issue of a+, the magazine has partnered with TrekMovie to give away a free iPad Mini with a custom case signed by Zoe Saldana.


You can win this Zoe Saldana-signed iPad Mini

TrekMovie.com and a+ Magazine will be giving away the iPad Mini via @TrekMovie Twitter on Friday. Some time around noon Pacific Time on Friday TrekMovie will post a Saldana-related trivia question. The winner will be chosen randomly from one of the correct responses (North American residents only).  

You can get a+ magazine on iTunes. You can also follow them on Facebook and Twitter.

More Junket videos

Stay tuned for more exclusive junket videos over the next few days.

Previously released:

 

Comments

1. clark billy - May 17, 2013

she is doing her own thing as Uhura and I dig it…

2. Phasers on Stun - May 17, 2013

I want to see her become more like Number #1 similar to what Gene did in the cage. And yes, no babies…..at least not yet.

3. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 17, 2013

According to the link Bob Orci posted on the ‘Sticky: Into Darkness Arrives’ thread, the Pon Farr issue is going to be dealt with in the next issue(s?) of the Ongoing comics. It will be interesting to see what the team end up doing with this.
For reference:
‘423. boborci – May 16, 2013
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/05/star-trek-after-darkness-comic/

keep an eye out for this if you go through post STID anxiety.’

4. Becca - May 17, 2013

Please, no babies, Vulcan or otherwise on the Enterprise EVER. Nor do I want to see Pon Farr come around, its too important to be a side plot but not important enough to warrant its own film. Who knows, they might not be together in future films. I can only hope.

I do love her comment on Uhura having things to accomplish personally. I honestly do feel like having her and Spock together takes away from that. Nearly everything she does revolves around him or supporting him. Her kicking ass was awesome, but starting fight with her boyfriend on a mission to Kronos had me rolling my eyes. I’d expect Uhura to be more professional. I wish they would break up but remain close friends and confidants and have her be fierce and in charge without worrying about Spock or chasing after him.

5. Buzz Cagney - May 17, 2013

She has things that she wants to accomplish first? Yea, like finding out where the comms station is!

6. Ash - May 17, 2013

” A baby?! On the Enterprise?? Oh my GOD no!”

LOL she cracked me up the way she said that! By the way Zoe I agree completely. No babies/pon farr or marriage. Please writers don’t bring that crap in the next film. Let Miss Uhura evolve on her own without Spock. She’s a Boss and while I’d love to see her without a boyfriend, if the S/U thing must happen at least let her have things to do that don’t have with her love life. Like speaking Klingon was awesome.

7. Rich Civil - May 17, 2013

The Uhura bit speaking Klingon made up fro the horrible scene in STVI where the crew was trying to bluff there way past a Klingon checkpoint and had a bunch of books open. Seriously the ship was on a diplomatic mission with the Klingons and no one on board spoke Klingon?

8. Marja - May 17, 2013

Bravo Zoe! Uhura got to be brave several times in the movie and I’m glad for it! The scene in which she departed the small ship to speak to the Klingons was marvelous – a pause to get herself together before going out there and possibly to her death. Then she coolly approached them and did her thing, despite the fact that most of them were twice her size. Awesome.

I liked the scene, too, where she’s helping Spock out toward the end, when she shot that one guy, Pew-pew-pew-pew until he dropped :)

I think Uhura’s fierceness is quite well-proven in this movie and hope to see her relationship with Spock continue and grow. (Saldana did not want little babies on the ship, but did not mention that the relatlionship should end. She just didn’t want Uhura to “settle down,” which to a lot of folk means “stay home and raise kids.”)

I do not support the idea that “a professional woman must not have a relationship with a significant other, that it diminishes her.” Nonsense. Tell that to any professional contemporary man. “Oh, sorry, you want to be promoted in the Navy? You have to shuck the wife, man.” “You want to get ahead at Google? Ditch the girlfriend.” Really?

Yes, Uhura’s got plenty of things to do in her future and I don’t think being with Spock will hinder her. I imagine both of them would be open to serving on different ships if necessary for career advancement.

The idea that a woman, in order to be professional, must give up a personal life with someone she loves is as ridiculous as expecting a man to give up his personal life for a job. It doesn’t happen nowadays and I think even less will it be expected to happen in the future. Most Commaders in the naval services are married or in “significant other” relationships. This gives them stability. Such stability is valued in the military, where there are many young people who’ve never had stable role models, and learn to value them.

No, babies do *not* belong on a starship [sorry, NextGen], but Pon farr is only a call to mate, not necessarily resulting in children. I would assume [and per Gene Roddenberry in "The Making of Star Trek," this is true for Starfleet members] that Starfleet officers assigned to deep space missions are *all* on birth control. In any case I don’t think children would result from a Spock and Uhura Pon farr union, given that Spock is genetically unique.

Long live Spock and Uhura as a committed couple who are also committed to their careers!

And yes, before you say it, I do think Uhura was out of line discussing their personal business on the Qo’onoS mission, but the movie’s time limit demanded it :( …. thus the shortcut.

9. Jackson Roykirk - May 17, 2013

Agree with Rich Civil. That was a showstoppingly bad scene in STVI.
Really hope there will be more spoken Klingon in future Trek movies.
Not because I’m a linguist. Because I think it’s time for a Klingon villain.

10. Capt. Roykirk - May 17, 2013

I never thought the sole purpose of Nichols Uhura was to just sit there and be beautiful. It was more of a statement that African Americans and women can be officers on a starship.
Personally I don’t care much for this Uhura, with having a relationship with Spock and being more of an action hero. That’s just not who Uhura is imo. Of course I am a fan of TOS and not Abrams, so my opinion probably matters little here.

11. Jemini - May 17, 2013

people always complain about Uhura being “defined” by her relationship with Spock and yet it’s just funny how most of the K/S fans (not necessarily slash) want Kirk and Spock to be defined by their friendship (that is what Spock prime said by the way) and expect everything to revolve around that and for some reason they have no issues with that but they complain about Uhura being worried for her boyfriend in a story where men are more emotional and defined by their relationships than female characters. It seems like only women has to fit a standard and can’t show emotions or have emotional scenes.

does remind of bigotries of the 60s.

12. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 17, 2013

Yes, I agree, Jemini. It seems that bromance is OK but not romance.

With the overall negative attitude that so many people appear to have towards there being children, I think we may be very lucky if anyone like James Kirk and others even get born.

13. Jemini - May 17, 2013

12. Keachick

“Yes, I agree, Jemini. It seems that bromance is OK but not romance.”

so it’s not just me. I swear the hypocrisy in this fandom is mind blowing sometimes.
It’s just so ironic that people say Uhura being defined by the romance is a bad thing when the K/S friendship is canonically presented as these characters being defined by that friendship. For some fans they aren’t even Kirk or Spock the individual characters anymore, they’re the character named KirkSpock (at times Bones is also included in this “character” re: triumvirate and how the 3 characters are supposed to complete each other) . According to some Spock’s only purpose is to be Kirk’s friend and anything that represents a thing that is not part of that (like, him having a private life of his own) and is a distraction or unnecessary (mommy feelings aside).
So yeah, bromance is ok. Characters arcs and plot being predominately told from the perspective of a friendship only are ok but romantic relationship that are subtle anyway and sometimes even less in your face and screen-consuming than the said friendships, are suddenly this bad thing for the characters and the writers are so bad.
Just like in the 60s, the more things change the more they stay the same… The same double standard towards female characters, the same constant sanctifying of dudebro relationships only. The dudes with other dudes are the only ones allowed to show emotions.
Again, it’s funny all the talk about Uhura being defined by Spock when most of the male characters of this franchise are pretty much heavily defined by their relationships romantic or platonic (e.g., even Nero got batshit insane because of the loss of the woman he loved; Spock made a life-changing choice about his career and future by rejecting the offer by the vulcan science academy only because they insulted his mother.. and so on)

14. Jemini - May 17, 2013

I got distracted and forgot to comment this cute interview by Zoe!
yeah, I agree with her that Uhura and S/U don’t necessarily need to get married with kids to have a plot. It shouldn’t be taken too for granted. Mostly I fear that if they marry them they’ll feel like they don’t need to develop the pair anymore which would be a shame for me as I think they really have a lot of potential.

Having said that, though, I wouldn’t be against the idea of a vulcan marriage that is a different thing from a human one. I’d love to see how they develop the whole vulcan mating bond thing because I had always been intrigued by this idea that vulcans share this connection with their partner that surely can have advantages but it could make some things more complex. I always wondered for example how Amanda, as a human, did deal with it since she didn’t have the biology of a vulcan. How the bond really works? Do they feel each other thoughts all the time? or do they only share some feelings like being simultaneously tuned to the same radio frequency? lol
I’d believe that Spock and Uhura should, by now, already have some sort of vulcan mental bond even if not strong like a real one. They had been together for years now and in the comics they’re intimate and he initiated the mind melds with her since the early stages of their relationship.
The trek franchise may support this theory because If I remember well in TNG T’Pol accidentally bonded with Trip after a one night stand and this somehow made him immune to the pheromones of the Orion slave girls.

15. ensignjack - May 17, 2013

13-jemimi
I think you mean ENT with trip and T’pol
Not TNG

16. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

Why must a lead female character be in a romantic relationship? Uhuru could be a strong character without the relationship. It’s kinda cliche. I always felt that she should be the one sitting in captain’s chair when Bones,Spock and Kirk would go on missions. I prefer Spock had a strong friendship with Uhuru like he have with Kirk.

17. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 17, 2013

You are right, Jemini. I am sick of the so-called Kirk/Spock bromance or the triumvirate/triad Kirk/Spock/McCoy trope. It seems that these three intelligent, well educated individuals can’t do without one another and even spend most of their free time in one another’s company. These three characters (in the TOS series) have been completely defined by their trimance.

But, god forbid, any one of these guys is in any way defined by a relationship he might have with a woman and any child(ren) she may conceive to him. Even more *dreadful* is the idea that a woman – Uhura, Carol, whoever, may find herself being a girlfriend, let alone, a mother to any of their children.

It is all about dudes and their dudebro relationships. They are the only relationships/friendships that matter. It seems that to the writers and producers, then and now, these male/male relationships are the only ones they are encouraged to write about, while they are often actively discouraged from dealing with any other types of relationships. It is really quite patriarchal and narcissistic…

18. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#16: She’s a strong character. Period. Her relationship status doesn’t negate the fact that she’s a strong character.

Further, for a black woman to be shown as 1) having a career, 2) being competent in that career, and 3) being openly loved is a GREAT thing.

Because seriously, are we really going to say that a woman’s success is automatically trumped by her romantic relationship? Seriously??

19. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

18. She also be a strong black woman without the relationship. I didn’t said that woman’s success trumped her romantic relationship. All I’m saying is the writers didn’t have to put Uhuru in a romantic relationship for her to be a strong character.

20. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

I mean she can also

21. Ctrl-Opt-Del - May 17, 2013

Odd how she almost seemed to drift into a British accent every now & then…

22. chrisfawkes.com - May 17, 2013

I wonder if making it that Vulcan’s have sex using only their left hand was done as a tribute to the 70% of trekkies who also only have sex using their left hand.

23. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 17, 2013

I think JJ Abrams, Bob Orci et al deserve kudos for introducing the Spock/Uhura romance into the Star Trek alternate universe as a canon relationship in the first place.

They have copped a lot of flak over this decision in the past few years, but have stuck to it for a second movie. Time will tell if they have the stomach to continue it into the future. I certainly hope so.

These sorts of relationships do form in the real world (obviously), so it seems realistic they should be shown to exist in the fictional world as well. In my opinion, they don’t need to be major plot points, they just need to be shown to exist.

I think they need to keep a balance with these characters to ensure that, while such a relationship is part of who they are, it should not be the only thing that defines them. I think the team have managed it quite well so far.

Of course, those who do not not like the relationship (and I acknowledge the dislike is for one of several different reasons, some more valid than others) would consider what is already shown is too much, hence the flak directed at Uhura for being just the ‘whining girlfriend’, or replacing McCoy, or the ‘concern’ that the relationship diminishes her character etc…

We don’t need, or want, Star Trek to become ‘Days of Our Lives In Space’, we just need to see ‘real’ people living ‘real’ lives while working in the most amazing place – the world of Star Trek.

Anyway, that’s my opinion.

24. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#19 And therein lies the problem. That’s all we see when it comes to the portrayal of black women in the media. She’s “strong” and “doesn’t need a man”. That’s a tired trope I, as a black woman, am TIRED of seeing. Women of color do not have the luxury of seeing every permutation of their relationships in the media. We usually get stuck stereotypes such as “sassy best friend”, “plucky side kick”, “maid”, or “just there to further the plot of the white lead characters” (I’m looking at you, The Vampire Diaries).

There’s nothing wrong with a black woman being publicly loved and desired. Absolutely nothing. I commend the writers for doing it, especially when TOS made a point to portray Nichelle’s Lt. Uhura as an asexual nun, undesired and no desires of her own, who was only shown affection when mind control was involved. I prefer to see her loved by someone of their own free will, which is the case in the new movies.

25. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

24. Why do you keep bringing race into this? . Everytime Uhuru come up you seem to want to bring race up. Its not about her race. Please stop playing the race card. I sure didn’t see Uhuru that way on TOS. . She doesn’t have to be his girlfriend, she can be his friend. What’s so wrong with a platonic realtionship ? On TOS “The Man Trap” Uhuru made fun of Spock in a song. I thought was cute moment between them. They were both laughing and were. happy. In Nutrek, when they are together it be so serious and tense.It remind of Twilight the movie or soap opera.

26. Rod of Rassilon - May 17, 2013

@ 24.
Are you for real?
Have you ACTUALLY WATCHED TOS or the TOS movies?

Are you aware, and you half appear that you might be, that current movie has been made in THIS century as an action film, while the original series was made in the LAST century as a TV SHOW with all the limitations of budget constraints (time, money) and socially accepted limitations of the period.

Your sense of entitlement comes over just as much as those you appear to be rebelling against. Without putting the limits you are complaining of in the historical context of reality.

It really comes across that you are simply projecting your own limitations and what you perceive as others onto this film.

I have been a TOS fan for a long time and I have NEVER thought of Uhura as a nun! Thanks to the backstory that IS woven into her character in the series and the original films, if you actually look for it.

I doubt anyone wants a buddy buddy movie where K,S,McCoy are on screen every second, and all Uhura says is “hailing Frequencies open” but equally no-one who still wants it to be recognisable as Star Trek wants it to be the Uhura show.

Personally I’ve wanted to see Nurse Chappel in these films, having seen STID I really doubt that’s going to happen now, she ACTUALLY had something going on between her and Spock in the series, and in my humble opinion the writers left her out because they either felt incapable of writing the complexities of a 3way relationship where Chappell Uhura Spock had to work things out. Or they decided that their audience wouldn’t be able to cope.. In short spoke down to us.

Still.. I can understand this omission. Because the important relationship in TOS HAS ALWAYS BEEN Kirk Spock and McCoy spontaneity, logic and humility. These 3 facets of personality are in us all and give the 3 characters a need to be together as, together they are stronger .. This has always been and should continue to be at the heart of TOS Star Trek.

Rip that up and throw it away and it is no longer Star Trek it is simply something else.

Is there room in the movie for strong female characters, absolutely!

I find it interesting how Kirks “womanising” is being dealt with as almost an aside, a throw away “oh dear there’s kirk looking at the ladies again”

But if you have “strong women” in the future, surely they are more enlightened and have no shame attached to sex? So it becomes less about the male Kirk dominating the various female leads and more about open and free expression of a natural instinct to have a good time. It is part of their “strength” AND kirks.

I think what ticks some people off about Uhura being kick ass is that she is a comms officer .. Not a kick ass officer, its incongruous to say the least.

A little more intelligent writing could give us a tense scene where Uhura wrestles with a communication issue ON SHIP and that would satiate a lot of these complaints. If Uhura is the ONLY one able to “fix the damn computer/communicator” she is still “strong” then get her kicking some ass physically as well (within the context of a good story) and everyone “should” be happy.

As it stands it sounds like you and others still wouldn’t be happy, until its the Zoe Salanda show.

Which is fine if its your thing. It just wouldn’t be Star Trek in appearance or name at that point.

Ps. A thought occurred to me. Perhaps you are viewing this from the current social limitations of the time you are living in, how will what you have said, sound in 50 years time? :)

27. barney - May 17, 2013

RACE and Uhura is a very interesting concept.

I think a lot of black women are leaving out their fantasies through uhura that is why they support the relationship. its like that TV show Scandal.

a lot of black women have a secret desire to be loved by a white man that is why most black women are in support of Spock/Uhura relationship.

then there is the other side of the Race issue. some white women might get upset that a black woman was able to get the unattainable…. land a guy like Spock so they get mad.

some have called Uhura a token others have said Spock does not marry a person who is in the category where the N word can be used to describe the person. that’s how bad some comments have gotten over the S/U relationship.

Both white and black people are guilty of racism when it comes to Uhura. believe me, if Spock were to break up with Uhura because of a white girl. Rebecca74 and many black women will get mad because their fantasy of a cool intellectual white man loving them has been dashed.

what is so funny is that star trek takes place in the 24th century where race does not even matter any more. human dates Vulcans, vulcans dates romilans, human dates orions and cat ladies, heck even Klingons marry humans

So I just wish the whole race thing will stop.

JJ Abrams did not think of race when he first paired S/U together. he paired them together because he felt they were more realistic and were the least predictable as a couple.

so stop with all the hate and secret fantasies.

28. Jemini - May 17, 2013

15. ensignjack – May 17, 2013

a typo. I tend to consider everything after TOS as “new generation” to keep them separated but yeah, you’re right it’s ENT not TNG!

16. Desraye the vulcan girl – May 17, 2013

“Why must a lead female character be in a romantic relationship? ”

why must a lead female character NOT be in a romantic relationship to be strong?
and what’s is the difference, aside from the obvious (like “eww kissing” stuff) between close friendships and romantic relationships? what makes the first acceptable and the latter not so much

again, you guys really don’t realize what you’re implying with this double standard because you’re essentially saying (I’m using your logic) that there should be no friendships either especially when in star trek those are actually more dominant than any romance and take way more screen time and character development. Romance had always been subtle in start trek and it remains to be like that.

19. Desraye the vulcan girl
“All I’m saying is the writers didn’t have to put Uhuru in a romantic relationship for her to be a strong character.”

they didn’t have to do that and I doubt it’s their reason for putting her in a romantic relationship. She’d be a strong character on her own right regardless, the romance is just a plus because before being officers working aboard a spaceship these guys are supposed to be people. Romantic or platonic relationships are plot devices to make the characters look more real and make it so we can relate to them more.

Besides, this romance it isn’t the be all and end all for the characters, it just IS something that is part of their story and you aren’t necessarily “allowed” to see every moment between them.
Unlike the K/S friendship that defines their characters and, at times, can be a limit for the plot in that they aren’t (Spock especially) allowed to have any other arc other than that (or put the focus on them as individuals beyond the friendship aspect and how they relate to each other)

if the fandom has a problem with a tiny romance then maybe they should ask themselves if star trek is the right franchise for them because this is a story where the main characters had always been defined by interpersonal relationships. It’s a story where a friendship influenced the characters and made them, at times, act unprofessional and go against regulations to help a friend.

25. Desraye the vulcan girl – May 17, 2013

24. Why do you keep bringing race into this? . Everytime Uhuru come up you seem to want to bring race up. Its not about her race

it’s called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

and it’s a thing.

29. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#24 The same could be said about you bringing “gender” into the conversation, but that’s acceptable in your mind, but her race isn’t, huh? It matters, whether you want to turn a blind eye to it and ignore it to further your “point”.

#26 The point is that the limitations placed on TOS!Uhura should not continue to be placed on her in the reboots. There was a reason she was never paired with anyone on the show: racism. The American public in the 1960s could appreciate her being on the bridge (as an African, not African American), but having Ms. Nichols’ Lt. Uhura have the same romantic entanglements as Janice Rand or Nurse Chapel? Absolutely not. That’s why I appreciate why JJ & Co did with the reboots and why I question anyone that makes the statement that “she didn’t need a man in TOS” as some type of feminist statement.

I’d also like to see Nurse Chapel, but do you honestly believe the feminist would really want to see two women fighting over Spock? They already hate the fact that she’s in a relationship with him.

The IDEAL would be that our perceptions would be more enlightened in 50 years, but from the reaction of fans on this site 50 years after TOS, I’m not confident in that belief. Movies do not happen in a vacuum, and for a lot of women, seeing Lt. Uhura being openly and willingly loved IS progress. Because I know for me, seeing someone being forced to kiss her or having her mind warped so she’d show affection to someone bothers me to no end. I don’t like it when her choices and free will are taken away.

30. Curious Cadet - May 17, 2013

@3. ObsessiveStarTrekFan,
“According to the link Bob Orci posted on the ‘Sticky: Into Darkness Arrives’ thread, the Pon Farr issue is going to be dealt with in the next issue(s?) of the Ongoing comics. It will be interesting to see what the team end up doing with this.”

Yes, I rolled my eyes at this. It will be interesting. On the surface, it is the setup for Amok Time, but then the payoff for Amok Time they’ve already given us with STID, right? So it’s likely to go a completely different direction, unless … (No, they wouldn’t do magic tribble blood again, right?)

Side Note: does Amok Time actually accomplish in TOS what they attempted to do in STID? Or were K/S already past that point in their friendship?

As for Pon Farr, I never really followed this aspect of Trek because I always thought it was kind of stupid. But doesn’t Spock just have to have sex with someone? Anyone? Uhura, with whom he’s already having sex? Or does it have to specifically be a Vulcan (I seem to recall that from a dumb episode of Voyager). If so, I’m guessing Spock and Uhura become swingers? And if its about going back to his pre-arranged marriage, it seems to me Spock has long since abandoned his Vulcan roots and traditions. Shouldn’t he just tell his pre-arranged fiancé ahead of time that she’s free to pursue anybody she wants because he’s already got a girl? Didn’t T’Pol on Enterprise already successfully go through this?

Anyway, as you say it will be interesting.

31. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

I think a lot of people are entirely missing the point on why feminists and the critics (because I have listed on my blog excerpts from over ten reviews from big name critics for the latest Trek movie who have specifically addressed the treatment of women in this latest Trek film). It’s not that anyone is saying women can’t have a profession and be in a relationship and its not that anyone is saying one relationship, i.e. the Spock and Kirk friendship, is more important than romantic intentions either character may have towards Uhura and Carol. It centers on a theory within feminism called ‘the male gaze’ (I’d provide links but since those send posts into the mod queue just google the term ‘feminist film theory male gaze’).

The theory is this: movies (and television and advertisements) are shot almost predominantly from a male perspective. When a women is in a frame of a shot, her body will be panned over and certain parts focused on, more so than a males. Her relationships, as portrayed, are shown almost solely through how she relates to the men in her life. Historically women have almost always, with a few notable exceptions, been shown as married/dating/in the process of meeting someone to date. Never single or unattached and happy to be so. The implication there is that women need a relationship to live a satisfying life or to be considered of worth. Such an implication is repressive.

This is why the Bechdel Test came to be, because males already outnumber females in film on a three to one basis. Of those shown they’re almost always either within a romantic relationship or in the process of starting one. So much are the male/female relationships focused on to the detriment of all other relationships within a woman’s life that women within the Hollywood industry are either fired or actively discouraged to go against that grain (google ‘why Brenda Chapman was fired from Pixar over Brave’ and also ‘students actively encouraged not to pass the Bechdel Test in script writing’ and read the results, guaranteed you’d find it fascinating and disturbing).

What’s more, because we’re so used to seeing it, we come to believe it as the norm, thus women start to believe of themselves what they see or read through this ‘male gaze’. It’s called internalized sexism, where women actively become the harsher judges of their own appearance and the harsher judges of their relationship status (and those of other women) because they believe what they see to be right and true.

Historically women have been defined by who they are married to, and their relationship status (google ‘single discrimination’). So much so that certain states have passed laws forbidding the inclusion of ‘relationship status’ on applications or in job interviews. And for good reason, even in this day and age single, professional women have a hard time buying a home or even getting a loan on their own, regardless of income, i.e. even if they have excellent credit the the full means to pay off their debt in good faith. To sum up? The horrible implications of ‘spinster’ and ‘not in a relationship = unlovable and/or unworthy’ is still very much rampart.

That films even in this day and age, decades after the suffrage movement was in full swing (women were not allowed to vote in the US until 1920) are still shot predominantly in the ‘male gaze’ is a problem. And although I know some of you like that plot element, but the sad truth is that Spock/Uhura feed into this and the reason people get upset by it is that Star Trek is supposed to be about progression, not suppression.

Fact, according to the mpaa women make up half of the movie ticket purchasing population at 50%. In 2009 and 2010, they bought over half, at 51%. There is no reason, no reason at all, that ‘the male gaze’ needs to be the predominant means of storytelling within Hollywood.

And for those who argue ‘well, race makes it better because it means that the character is ‘lovable” I would argue that a person doesn’t need to be an ‘other’ to be lovable. People should be defined by who they are individually, their relationship status should not bear any weight in their appeal as a character or as a person. This goes for women AND men of any color, shape, size and form.

32. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#27 Barney
Actually, no. That “cool intellectual white man” fantasy as you say is actually my husband.

Good try, though.

33. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

3. The article does not said anything about pon farr. They really don’t have to deal with the issue. I mean T’Pring, is dead and he already bonding mentally with Uhuru, so that is likely who Spock will turn to relieved the Pon Farr.They can also give Spock medicine like they did T’Pol.

8. ” In any case I don’t think children would result from a Spock and Uhura Pon farr union, given that Spock is genetically unique.”

It could happen. I mean on TOS “All Our Yesterdays” ( which is one of my favorite episode) Spock and Zarabeth union produce a son named Zar. Zar was introduce in novelization of All Our Yesterday.

26.”Personally I’ve wanted to see Nurse Chappel in these films, having seen STID I really doubt that’s going to happen now, she ACTUALLY had something going on between her and Spock in the series, and in my humble opinion the writers left her out because they either felt incapable of writing the complexities of a 3way relationship where Chappell Uhura Spock had to work things out. Or they decided that their audience wouldn’t be able to cope.. In short spoke down to us.

This way would turn into a soap opera or Star Trek 90210. It will be the same way if the added a vulcan or romulan woman.This would also upset the S/U fans.Although, it would make things interesting.

34. Curious Cadet - May 17, 2013

@33. Desraye the vulcan girl,
“3. The article does not said anything about pon farr. They really don’t have to deal with the issue. I mean T’Pring, is dead and he already bonding mentally with Uhuru, so that is likely who Spock will turn to relieved the Pon Farr.They can also give Spock medicine like they did T’Pol.”

You have to read the two pages from the teaser comic. It’s all about Pon Farr.

We don’t know T’Pring is dead.

That’s why it will be interesting, since Enterprise already dealt with this and Spock has numerous major character changes over his counterpart in TOS. That said, I don’t exactly understand how the whole thing with Prime Spock’s Pon Farr wasn’t already addressed under his previous 13 years of service with Pike.

35. barney - May 17, 2013

#27 Barney
Actually, no. That “cool intellectual white man” fantasy as you say is actually my husband.

Good try, though
————————————————————————————————-

well it still doesnt change the fact that black women seceretly crave for a white’s man love. Most black women are diehard S/U lovers.

I have to hand it to you die hard S/U fans, you guys have become a very huge fanbase. Fanlore.com has the S/U relationship listed as popular the only other fan base listed as popular is the K/S slash fan base and it took you guys only 4 years to rival the K/S fanbase that has been slashing for nearly 50 years.

I do like S/U..however only in the alternate universe. I just can’t see TOS Spock and Uhura in a relationship. so I hope the S/U relationship stays solely in the JJ Universe.

I hope we get to see Kirk/Carol as a couple …S/U has too much angst and brooding so Kirk/carol will just be fun to watch.

36. Mark - May 17, 2013

3. The article does not said anything about pon farr. They really don’t have to deal with the issue. I mean T’Pring, is dead and he already bonding mentally with Uhuru, so that is likely who Spock will turn to relieved the Pon Farr.They can also give Spock medicine like they did T’Pol.

Maybe I missed something, but was it mentioned anywhere that he and Uhura were bonded! I don’t think they are. I know they have melded before but not Bonded.

37. Mark - May 17, 2013

God will they just please end this Spock/Uhura nonsense and actually give her something to do besides being worried/angry/bothered at Spock?

Right on Zoe, no babies or marriage happening here.

38. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

29.” The same could be said about you bringing “gender” into the conversation, but that’s acceptable in your mind, but her race isn’t, huh? It matters, whether you want to turn a blind eye to it and ignore it to further your “point”.

No, her race does not matter. Stop throwing out the race card.

39. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#31 And yet I doubt there would be this must feminist angst if the object of Spock’s affection was Nurse Chapel.

Race matters because of how women of color are treated in the media today. It matters on how actresses of color are predominantly given stereotypical roles in movies and TV shows “sassy best friend”, “side kick”, “sassy waitress”, etc. It matters when characters written as non-white get whitewashed when the movie adaptation is made. It matters because we as women are NOT treated the same.

That even in 2013, the roles for actresses in Hollywood are limited by race. Because the majority of lead roles are cast as and default to white. It’s the reality. The world isn’t colorblind for all their protestations. If it were, you wouldn’t see the backlash when Idris Elba gets mentioned as possibly playing Bond or Heimdall. Or when Angel Coulby played Guinevere in Merlin. Or Donald Glover being in contention to play Spiderman. Because while these same people can accept dragons, witches, and elves, the moment you put a black person in the movie, they scream “historical inaccuracy” (and before you say it’s some fringe folks, I’ve seen those comments in what would be considered “mainstream” media).

40. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

Forgot to add… good on you, Zoe! I agree with your sentiments.

41. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

28. ” She’d be a strong character on her own right regardless, the romance is just a plus because before being officers working aboard a spaceship these guys are supposed to be people.

Its only plus to the people that are fans of their relationship.

“again, you guys really don’t realize what you’re implying with this double standard because you’re essentially saying (I’m using your logic) that there should be no friendships either especially when in star trek those are actually more dominant than any romance and take way more screen time and character development. Romance had always been subtle in start trek and it remains to be like that.

No I am not saying that. I am saying that if the wanted Uhuru to be a main character in the move they did not have to put her in a romantic relationship. That is my opinion.

42. Rick - May 17, 2013

Oh god here we go again..
I’ve learned to just skip right over Rebecca74 post. I already know what it’s gonna say, anyone who doesn’t like S/U or Uhura in the worried girlfriend role have race issues and blah blah. Then we get another history lesson. Anyone who disagrees is a repressed racist.

And YES. Her being with Spock is less empowering. She does a few things on her own (talking to Klingons) but in nearly all her other scenes she’s looking to Spock, or worried about Spock, or mad at Spock or nagging at Spock. That little fight she just had to pick on the way to Kronos made her look like an unprofessional fool, which we know she’s not. I can only imagine how more evolved her character could be if she were released from being the girlfriend of one of the main characters.

43. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

#39 Rebecca74:

Can’t speak for all feminist as I am but one among them, but I for one would yes, be protesting the Spock/Chapel romance as being supressive and superfilous as well.

As for race, I am well familiar with stereotypes in film, heralding from Hispanic origins myself. I don’t think romance is a progressive means towards combating it. People should be judged on individual merit. Period. Being ‘lovable’ has little to do with who one is dating or if they are dating. To combat the ‘angry black woman’ stereotype, Hollywood needs to stop writing angry black women, relationship or no relationship, i.e. it would be nice if Hollywood stopped stereotyping based on ethnicity and gender altogether.

44. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

*suppressive and superfluous… need more coffee

45. cpelc - May 17, 2013

Nothing to worry about Pon Farr in the next film – being covered in the next issue of the comics

http://www.thetrekcollective.com/2013/05/comics-round-up-after-darkness-august.html

46. gingerly - May 17, 2013

Barney, this is racist:

“well it still doesnt change the fact that black women seceretly crave for a white’s man love. Most black women are diehard S/U lovers.”

Are you seriously claiming the majority of a race of women secretly desire another race of men, based on the fact that some like Uhura/Spock?

…an alien figure who was in part CREATED to be an object of female desire??

Wow.

Like I said, you are racist, presumptuous, ignorant, and arrogant too (assuming you’re white).

It’s not his whiteness that’s attractive (Spock has always read as ‘other’ to me), and he’s technically not white, it’s stupid humans who have those concepts of race that are strictly a social construct.

To Spock and other Vulcans, because they are scientists…We, HUMANS are the other race.

Now, as for Rebecca’s uninformed rant.

…and for @24 who just dropped some truth that you’ve all chosen to ignore.

It’s 2013 and we just now have a Scandal, no not black woman/white male love, (that’s actually more common than black male/white woman love/sex onscreen and I can tell you, it’s not black women in charge of Hollywood who are perpetuating one with a clear fear of the other).

…it’s the fact that it’s a drama in which a black woman is the lead.

In fact, Kerry Washington only chose to be in the interracial storyline, because of the fact that Obama is in office and she didn’t want stupid people to infer anything based on it…

Gee I wonder where anyone would get the idea that people could possibly infer anything about entire races of people based on a TV show, Barney?

So, Rebecca, assuming that you’re white, I’m going to explain something to you as a black woman. DO NOT SPEAK FOR US.

You don’t know anything about what it’s like to be by default considered too sassy, and too strong for love….to be a freaking racist meme like “strong independent black woman don’t no man!” who is of course obese and sassy and asexual…

http://i.qkme.me/3poh8z.jpg

Heck, she even often shows in in American film and TV often “mm-hmming” in service position, giving unnecessary attitude and holding the hero. Which her derisive seen-it-all cynicism.

I’m sure you’ve heard of the Bechel Test and Fridging.

Well, to me, both of those are for white women.

Black women’s purpose isn’t to be a man’s lover, no she’s too sassy and strong for that. She’s there to frown and flex and be strong and sassy and support white people (TV’s Michonne is a good example).

…And fridging??? Don’t make me laugh, most of the time, black female characters in media are so hated their deaths are called for, and then quickly forgotten or done not for herself but for more important white characters (see: Simone in Heroes and Bonnie in The Vampire Diaries, who has died TWICE! for her white friends).

As for Uhura, bringing up race doesn’t make you racist. If that’s the case, then Gene Roddenberry is clearly a racist, because the entirety of Star Trek was about THIS DIVERSE GROUP COMING TOGETHER IN THE FUTURE TO EXPLORE SPACE.

There was even a A FREAKIN SIKH OFFICER ON BRIDGE AT ONE POINT!!!

Something you never see today.

Remember this was during the Civil Rights Movement.

So, it upsets me to see people mindsets going backwards in some ways.

That with the string of white female strangers having all kinds of storylines in the TOS movies, all up on the posters and everything, without complaint, that so many are concern-trolling Uhura,..

…Who is not only an original castmember, but one who was crapped on because of her race so much, she almost left.

MLK convinced her to stay and endure, to put aside her own desire to get away from the freakin’ racist security guard who would let her through the frontgate, for the good of her people.

So, don’t you dare act like Nichelle Nichols was put on some pedastal that Zoe Saldana has defiled.

She gets consenual romance.

She actually knows Klingon.

She gets to show all of the training she’s had in Starfleet, including combat training.

And, she’s loved by an Iconic character, one the first mainstream iterations of the “other” that was successful.

It’s no coincidence that outsiders often wrote Leonard Nimoy thanking him for allowing them to not feel like so much garbage.

So, yeah I see you’re disingenius concern-trolling. I see your use of the race card to deflect any real conversation about the reality of race in this country (something Gene Roddenberry didn’t flinch away from) and I am sad to see some many new Trekkies…don’t actually get what Star Trek is supposed to be about.

*psst!* It is about and has always been about diversity.

47. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#41 It’s a double standard, plain and simple. She’s not defined or reduced by her relationship. Besides, you don’t even know she’s in a relationship with Spock until the half way point of ST ’09. Up until they kissed in the transporter, she was the lead actress who’s character had 1) handled herself coolly while being annoyingly hit on in a bar, 2) intercepted and translated the Klingon transmission, 3) defended her academic record, skill sets, hard work, and dedication to a superior officer who erroneously assigned her to a lesser ship, and 4) received a field promotion to the bridge because she could differentiate between Romulan and Vulcan, could speak all three Romulan dialects, and because she was instrumental in providing Pike proof that Vulcan was under attack. She was established from the beginning as this amazing female character.

Of course, certain fans perceptions changed when she went to comfort Spock.

Once they’re shown kissing, that’s when the dismantling and reduction of Lt. Uhura occurs by certain fans who call her portrayal anti-feminist and a “step back”, without bothering to realize how repressive the “don’t need a man” trope is to a certain group of women. It’s those fans that reduce her and place more import on her relationship with Spock (as her defining characterization) and continue to ignore all she did in ST ’09 and STiD.

I absolutely love that her ability to translate (ST ’09) and speak (STiD) Klingon, after the horrible dictionary thing in ST: TUD, is shown. I love the fact that she’s shown as the best xenolinguist in Star Fleet. I love that she presented a cool head and stood as the voice of logic and reason when others wanted to go out shooting. I love everything about her characterization because she’s the Lt. Nyota Uhura we should have gotten in TOS.

48. Jemini - May 17, 2013

35. barney – May 17, 2013

“well it still doesnt change the fact that black women seceretly crave for a white’s man love. Most black women are diehard S/U lovers.”

ugh man way to prove that Rebecca is exaggerating.
I think that you should think before writing some things unless you want to be offensive on purpose
(I’m so white that I could be a vampire, btw)

“I hope the S/U relationship stays solely in the JJ Universe.”

hope? unless these writers have the power to completely recton the old series I think it will definitely be unique to the reboot and you have nothing to worry about
or you mean a continuation of the old series? (aren’t they all dead saved for Spock Prime?)

“I hope we get to see Kirk/Carol as a couple”
I smell Carol/Bones tbh.

41. Desraye the vulcan girl – May 17, 2013

“Its only plus to the people that are fans of their relationship.”

in the same way it’s an issue and not a plus only to the people that aren’t fans of the relationship and thus are biased AGAINST it regardless what the writers do with that.

” No I am not saying that. I am saying that if the wanted Uhuru to be a main character in the move they did not have to put her in a romantic relationship.”

the thing is, even when it comes to Spock himself he was, originally, made a more prominent and main character by making him the best friend of the star that was Shatner-Kirk.
Hell, If you read some old letters by Roddenberry you will read that the reason they made them best friends, in the first place, was precisely because they knew that the alien (Spock) was more popular thank the captain and this was unacceptable for them as the star had to be Kirk-Shatner. So to resolve the problem they made Spock his best friend so that people would love Kirk because of Spock instead of hating him because they preferred Spock over the protagonist.
McCoy Bones also was a more prominent character compared to Sulu, Chekov and Scotty BECAUSE he was the friend of the protagonist.

Making Uhura important to Spock in order to make her more prominent as a character and see a bit more of her is not necessarily something new to this franchise and any fictional story that have one or two main protagonists with many background characters.

49. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#Gingerly… I am black and I’m very much aware of how stereotypes affect me as a black women.

I do, also, know more than enough about people assuming I’m white because my name is Rebecca. I could tell you so many stories about going on interviews and the shocked faces (actually mouth open, wide eyes) I get when it’s me, and not who they expected.

I’m not speaking from some desire to “speak for” Black women. I’m speaking for myself, as a black woman.

50. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

#47 Rebecca74:

It’s a double standard because that is your perception since you are a fan of the romance. From my perception it is a double standard to make exceptions for something based on its inclusion. An inclusion that is sexist because women are seldom shown outside of the male gaze, regardless of their ethnicity.

Case in point, if I were to go to one of my black female friends (one of whom is my niece) who aren’t Trekkies and could give two figs about Spock and Uhura, but who do care quite a bit about racial and gender stereotyping, they’re not going to feel that the Spock/Uhura relationship makes any sort of statement. Because it’s a romance. A romance is not the begin all and end all of an individual. But how Nyota Uhura is portrayed as a person, based on individual merit, THAT does matter, because romances come and romances go, but they do NOT encompass a person’s personality nor do they dictate someone’s worth.

I, too, love Nyota Uhura. Her relationship with Spock bares no impact on my fondness for her. Nor should it.

51. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

48. “the thing is, even when it comes to Spock himself he was, originally, made a more prominent and main character by making him the best friend of the star that was Shatner-Kirk.’

Spock was already a main character before Kirk ever got there. In, “The Cage” Spock was next in line behind Number 1 in command of the Enterprise.

52. Mel - May 17, 2013

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/05/star-trek-after-darkness-comic/#slideid-144199

So in one of the next Star Trek Ongoing comics we will get Pon Farr. I wonder though, why there is much of a story. S/U could simply sleep with each other, something I presume they already do, and get it over. T’Pring should be dead and not a problem. I don’t think there is as much story as in Amok Time.

53. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

52. Yea, that is my sentiment.

54. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#50

Black female friends?. Seriously, if that’s how you have to qualify you comment, please stop. Why wouldn’t you ask ALL of you female friends, since it’s about gender and portrayal of women in the media, regardless of their ethnicity.

You make it seem as if I don’t care about race and gender stereotyping. I do very much, which is why it bothers me that so many feminist claim Lt. Uhura is reduced because she’s in a relationship. It’s as if their mind, the first half of ST ’09 didn’t happen at all. JJ & Co established her character from the beginning, it’s only after she kissed Spock that the narrative was retconned by certain fans to suit their perceptions.

55. Jemini - May 17, 2013

51. Desraye the vulcan girl

again, read those letters by Roddenberry to his friend Isaac. (http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/06/getting-star-trek-on-air-was-impossible.html)

Read when Gene starts saying “I would dearly love to discuss with you a problem about the show and the format. It concerns Captain James Kirk and of course the actor who plays that role, William Shatner.” and he points up how the fact that Spock was more interesting as a character was a problem since they wanted Kirk to be the main guy

the reply by his friend Isaac

In some way, this is the example of the general problems of first banana/second banana. The star has to be a well-rounded individual but the supporting player can be a “humorous” man in the Elizabethan sense. He can specialize. Since his role is smaller and less important, he can be made highly seasoned, and his peculiarities and humors can easily win a wide following simply because they are so marked and even predictable. The top banana is disregarded simply because he carries the show and must do many things in many ways.

and here his solution to the problem

I promised to get back to you with my thoughts on the question of Mr. Shatner and the dilemma of playing against such a fad-character as “Mr. Spock.
(…)
The problem, then, is how to convince the world, and Mr. Shatner, that Mr. Shatner is the lead.
It seems to me that the only thing one can do is lead from strength. Mr. Shatner is a versatile and talented actor and perhaps this should be made plain by giving him a chance at a variety of roles. In other words, an effort should be made to work up story plots in which Mr. Shatner has an opportunity to put on disguises or take over roles of unusual nature. A bravura display of his versatility would be impressive indeed and would probably make the whole deal a great deal more fun for Mr. Shatner. (He might also consider that a display of virtuosity would stand him in great stead when the time—the sad time—came that Star Trek had finished its run and he must look elsewhere.)
Then, too, it might be well to unify the team of Kirk and Spock a bit, by having them actively meet various menaces together with one saving the life of the other on occasion. The idea of this would be to get people to think of Kirk when they think of Spock.

fascinating, isn’t it?
it’s funny how nowadays the writers would probably do the opposite thing and make them enemies.

So, yes Spock was a more prominent character compared to others but he wasn’t an equal protagonist to Kirk. They didn’t consider him as such.
In a way, the reboot is making him one (thank you very much and it was about time!) he had always been a main character in function of his friendship with the captain only and to support the actual real protagonist of the story that was the captain. .

There are, also, a lot of rumors about how Nimoy himself had issues with this (not the fact that his character was Kirk’s friend but the fact that he wasn’t treated as an equal protagonist compared to kirk even though he was that popular)
He wasn’t the only cast member that has some issues with mister Shatner and his big ego. That’s not to say they hated him or something but rumors said he used to steal lines from other characters and he did some revisionism about some facts when he re-told them in his star trek autobiography (and pissed Nichelle Nichols off because he talked about personal stuff about her ). It’s not an urban legend that the Kirk/Uhura kiss itself was supposed to be between Spock/Uhura originally and he totally made them rewrite the script and then claimed it had always been like that http://www.themarysue.com/uhura-spock-kirk-kiss/

56. Brevard - May 17, 2013

I could care less about this version of Uhura. nuTrek has become a story about three characters: Kirk, Spock, Uhura. This is not Star Trek. McCoy is barely seen in nuTrek. The Star Trek I know is about Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Uhura is a supporting character. She is not a lead character. Got that, writers? Plus, in Into Darkness, everything she did revolved around her running after Spock. He role on the Enterprise seems defined by her puppy dog love for Spock. That’s not empowering to women. It’s embarrassing.

57. Desraye the vulcan girl - May 17, 2013

55. If they would have kept Captain Pike, Spock would have still ended up being one of the main character. It would have been Captain Pike, Number 1, and Spock.

58. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#56

So you missed the part where she proved the cooler head and persuaded Kirk to allow her to use diplomacy, instead of guns blazing, to confront the Klingons alone and at great personal risk? She showed great bravery, strength and grace in that scene.

Of course, in your eyes, all that’s trumped by her relationship with Spock.

59. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

#54 Rebecca74:

Oh trust me, I do talk these issues over with all of my female friends. However, since you in particular have focused on a certain gender/ethnic demographic I saw fit to remind you that not all of said demographic share in your perspective on the importance of romance. The importance you have placed on this pairing is just that, *your* importance, because *you* like it, not the importance to all of your age, ethnic and gender demographic.

And it’s not about being ‘reduced’ as a person since a relationship does not make up an individual one can’t be ‘reduced’ by one unless they allow themselves to be. It’s about gender imbalance. What feminist are claiming? That women are now, and historically, seen through the eyes of men, and portrayed almost exclusively by their relation to men. Since men make up only but a portion of a woman’s overall life, it is an infinitely sexist means of portrayal.

To clear this up for you? Relationships are not a permanent fixture on someone’s being, regardless of the demographic of the person. Sometimes they end in divorce and or separation. Sometimes, tragically, in death. Sometimes they last decades, sometimes mere months. But the surviving member? They live on. Maybe to find love again. Maybe not. But their relationship, however long or fleeting, is not the identifying feature of who they are as a person. Their status of being without does not make them any less of a person worth knowing (or less worthy of being portrayed in film).

Were the portrayals of women more balanced, it would not be an issue. But that is not the case.

60. barney - May 17, 2013

@ Jeminin, @Rebecca 74

then why are so many black women huge fans of S/U. I am a star trek pop culture expect, I normally research star trek fiction, tribute videos, fan arts and more.I have noticed that many of the S/U shippers are black women.

what exactly is it about the S/U relationship that that makes lots of black women like it so much?

Go on S/U videos on YouTube and most of the fan comments are by black women. Go on fan fiction many of the profile of S/U fan writers are black women as well.

Dont get me wrong S/U also has a huge white following, I mean they are the most popular canon couple in the Trek Universe according to fanlore (since K/S is not canon).

its simple , black women love it when a white man is in love with a fellow black woman.. which is what the S/U relationship is.

Little Spock is deeply into uhura in the first him, only him gets to call her by her first name. he was even going to say I love you to her as his last message.

In the second film he tells her that he deeply cares or something like that,I can’t remember his full speech but I know kirk says its not a exactly a love song. He wants her permission to chase after Khan, he genuinely kisses her and watches her walk way, heck he is even afraid of her wrath.

if uhura had been paired with Tuvok (a balck Vulcan) and Tuvok had shown her affection like Spock did..Many of you black women wont ship them or even care about them.

also about scandal it is of fact that lots of black women are intoxicated by their show .I can give you 10 articles talking about why black women love scandal. Here is the link:

http://www.google.co.uk/#output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=why+black+women+love+scandal&oq=why+black+women+lo&gs_l=hp.1.2.0l3j0i22i30l7.9173.18639.1.21399.20.13.1.6.6.0.210.2054.0j12j1.13.0…0.0…1c.1.14.hp.o3m5l8azOGs&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.d2k&fp=bfd5f35d59ab6133&biw=822&bih=620

I know it is harsh or may sound racist but believe when I say that black women secretly crave for a white’s man love or let me say that black women feel elevated when a white man falls in love with them.

Its sad but it is also true.

61. Red Dead Ryan - May 17, 2013

Yikes…….I think I’ll stay out of the way.

62. gingerly - May 17, 2013

@60

So does that mean that white men secretly crave a black woman’s affection that every black actress who had managed to cross over has had to have an interracial romance with a white male lead??

And yet you rarely see the opposite? (See Denzel and Julia Roberts in the Pelican Brief

White males in in power in Hollywood after all.

I swear… I don’t want to hear anyone tell me that I’m whining about race after this.

I shouldn’t have to run into this on a fansite for the fandom that advocated diversity in the future.

Yet, here we have this ignorant cretin justifying generalization with a google search for a niche.

Just FYI, if you google Furries you’ll find all white people.

Does this mean that white people secretly want to bang animals???

I think not.

Ugh, this is what it means to be a black sci-fi fan.

63. gingerly - May 17, 2013

Apologies to Rebecca that was actually directed at Desraye the vulcan girl.

Yeah, totally my bad. It had nothing to with your name and all to do, with proximity.

I’m Ginger(ly) after all. ;)

64. Amorican - May 17, 2013

Except for Barney, who’s just a racist, I find this conversation interesting.
I’m all for the Uhura/Spock relationship, so long as Uhura isn’t turned into simply a cheerleader for Spock.

Confession Friday: I actually would have found a Scotty/Uhura relationship fun too. They hinted at it in ST5, and I thought it was cool. Nobody ever agreed with me. Ever.

65. Amorican - May 17, 2013

Barney, please stop trying to tell everyone what black women want. You don’t know anything.

66. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#59 Why would I need you to inform me that not all women share my perspective, when you yourself are a woman and do not share it? It’s my perspective, and doesn’t need to be qualified or quantified by the number of people that agree or disagree with me.

Where you and I disagree is that I don’t see Lt. Uhura’s relationship as her defining characteristic. She’s her own person, intelligent, confident, and exercising her sexuality without mind control. I loved her in TOS, just as I do now. Did I want to see her have what her female counterparts had in TOS? Absolutely! I also wanted to see her have more screen time, more to do, and more interactions with the crew, especially with the other women in the cast. For me, seeing everyone else, including guest stars, get screen time and having importance to the storyline instead of Uhura was disappointing . To see her not having little romantic entanglements, something her white co-stars had was disempowering to me. You had Janice Rand and Nurse Chapel, and the Romulan commander, etc to identify with or not. Granted, their portrayals were sexist as all get out, but at least you had it represented, and a point of reference of what you DID not want to see in the future. When did Lt. Uhura ever have that moment? Oh, right, under mind control, which basically reinforced the idea that the only way a black woman is desirous to another is if that person’s mind has been altered. So of course, I applaud when I see Nu!Uhura exercising her sexuality of her own free will. Does that excuse sexism in ST ’09. Absolutely not. JJ & Co dropped the ball (something you and I seem to agree on) and had a few missed opportunities for the only four female characters with speaking parts (Uhura, Marcus, Hannity, and Chekov’s unnamed replacement) to interact with each other, especially Uhura and Marcus.

Here’s the thing: there’s an imbalance in the portrayal of women among the different racial/ethnic groups. Not all women are treated the same in Hollywood and the media. Until that gets sorted and the playing field is unbiased, we’re still going to get stuck with stereotypical portrayals, especially for women of color. To me, Lt. Uhura isn’t a stereotypical role for a black woman.

67. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 17, 2013

“if uhura had been paired with Tuvok (a black Vulcan) and Tuvok had shown her affection like Spock did..Many of you black women wont ship them or even care about them.”

I think that is perhaps being a little presumptuous. If a lot of black women are interested in the S/U relationship, it may be because they relate to Uhura and are interested in who she is in love with. At this time, her feelings are for human/vulcan hybrid, Spock (played by a white actor).

68. Rebecca74 - May 17, 2013

#63 No worries… apology accepted. :)

69. Jemini - May 17, 2013

60. barney – May 17, 2013
“@ Jeminin, @Rebecca 74
then why are so many black women huge fans of S/U. I am a star trek pop culture expect, I normally research star trek fiction, tribute videos, fan arts and more. I have noticed that many of the S/U shippers are black women.

how do you know? they have showed you their pictures?

I honestly fail to get your point, btw.

It seems that in this site some of you have a thing for playing the Sigmund Freud of the thread. Get real guys.
It’s shipping, people like what they like the color of people’s skin has nothing to do with it.

70. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

#66 Rebecca74:

I do not disagree with Uhura getting more screen time and more to do. In fact, I’m all for it. I loved the bravery she exhibited in this new film and hope she gets more to do in the next one. Her kicking major butt and taking names, speaking multiple languages and speaking with other crewmates, particularly female ones, where the two of them have a discussion not centered around men thus passing the Bechdel Test would only be cheered by me. I am not one of those who subscribe to the belief that she is replacing anyone’s screen time – rather I believe there is room for both Bones and Uhura to shine. And I definitely feel that women in film as a whole should be given more meat to their roles.

I don’t even disagree with you that characters should NOT be defined by their romance. They definitely should not. We’re in full agreement there. This is one, out of many reasons, that I have a problem with ‘shipping’, as it does exactly that – it, in essence, places more importance on a romance than the characters as individual people.

Where I disagree with you is that a romantic portrayal is forward progression, for any ethnicity. It is not. A persons meter of ‘loveability’ should not be tied up with who or if they’re dating. Their ‘lovability’ is determined by their individual character. Nyota Uhura is lovable with or without Spock. She’s lovable because as a character because she is an amazing, intelligent, compassionate person. Simple as that. All people, great and small, regardless of gender, ethnicity, age and size deserve to be judged on individual merit, not who they’re involved with.

To use an example: Zoe Saldana is no less of a person or actress because, until very recently, she was single. Her being in a relationship now does not detract nor add to my opinions of her. They remain the same: that she’s a talented young lady who lights up the screen when she’s on it.

71. Dswynne - May 17, 2013

@trekkiegal: people hook up all the time. Not a big deal. Also, I don’t want
to see ‘ a guy with boobs’ playing Uhura. I want to see a woman who can be ‘the girl’ (ie. with Spock), and can have an informal relationship with another man (ie. with Kirk). I think STiD achieves that balance.

72. Spock/Uhura Admirer ;-) - May 17, 2013

It’s me again. Long time, no post.

After seeing the first trailer for this movie, and some of the Dark Knight-like ads, I didn’t know what to think. I’ve been on the fence about watching this movie because I wasn’t sure what it was going to really be about. Even many of the positive reviews I’ve read don’t seem that enthusiastic about the film, but there are some that are. The only bright spot is that I’ve heard that Spock and Uhura do remain a couple in the film although their relationship is downplayed.

I said I wouldn’t watch it if they didn’t stay together, but since they are at least somewhat together for this film, I’ll have to see how it works out for myself. I’m not twisting anyone’s arm to go with me because I’m not sure about how well this will play out, but hopefully a pleasant surprise (like S/U in the last film) awaits.

On to the reason for me posting.

I think it’s too bad that Zoe said “all” Ms. Nichol’s character did was sit and that she “didn’t have legs.” While I don’t think she was probably able to do as much as she could have because of the times (as was the case with other women characters), I’m sure she moved around some. Wasn’t there an episode where she was fixing something and Spock complimented her on how well she did that? Seems to me like that implies that she had technical skills. I don’t know…

Sex doesn’t necessarily equate to having a baby any time it is had, so even if Spock does go through that phase, that doesn’t mean a child will be born to them. Also, from what I’ve heard, there was a reason why Sarek and Amanda only had one child. I think it’s supposed to be very difficult for Vulcans and humans to have children in the first place, so birth control is practically unnecessary. My understanding is that they would need McCoy’s (or some kind of fertility specialist’s) help in order to have a child.

Lord of the Rings had a wedding, Pirates of the Caribbean had a wedding, Avatar seemed to imply their own version of matrimony at the end, even the dark knight settled down, Superman will have Lois Lane, Tony and Pepper are still going strong in the Avengers-verse without shame or hesitation, but I guess Star Trek will take a few steps back after taking that very bold, and I think necessary, step forward in the last film with Spock/Uhura. Maybe it’s because this is science fiction or because Star Trek is meant to be different. I can’t say. All I can say is that based off of what Zoe said, it sounds like I’ll never see what a full Vulcan wedding looks like. I don’t think there’s going to be a 4th or 5th movie (hopefully I’m wrong). I think the 3rd movie will wrap things up and then everyone will go their separate ways. Maybe that would be for the best, maybe not.

It looks to me like the male/male and the male/male/male relationships matter and the male/female or even female/female (hey, Uhura could have lady friends on the ship perhaps) don’t matter nearly as much. Perhaps I am wrong, but that’s what I keep getting from these interviews. Even Karl and Simon very diplomatically said that the film was only “marketed a certain way,” which sounds like the “triumvirate” will be what wins out over everything else in the end. This doesn’t sound like a reboot so much as a retelling, and I guess that’s what the TOS fans wanted. So, in that sense, I guess I’m glad that a fan group will be happy. Bones and Spock will be married to Kirk, and Kirk will be married to the ship.

Chris did an interview with OUT magazine where they called the Kirk/Spock relationship a “love story,” and from the sound of things, they might be right. I don’t have any issues with two (or three) men being in love and/or having a very close relationship, but when it sounds like it comes at the expense of just about everything else, I don’t know.

As I do with all of the actors, I wish Zoe the very best and hope that she continues on with her success.

—–

And now, I’m going to read the comments here. I already have a bad feeling, but wish me luck. :-/

73. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

#71 Dswynne:

It’s not that ‘people hook up all the time’ that is the issue. I, myself, am married twenty years and counting to a wonderful man who supports my views on gender equality and who is as openly intolerant of sexism as I am. It’s the imbalance existing within roles for women. Women are shown predominantly through the ‘male gaze’. Google the term ‘feminist theory male gaze’ for more information on the subject. One aspect of that issue is that women are portrayed predominantly through their relationship to men, even though romantic relationships are but a small sample of a woman’s overall being.

As for the ‘guy with boobs’ thing? I do not subscribe to gender stereotypes. I am not a believer in ‘sugar and spice and everything nice’ for women, or ‘rugged manly men in full bloom of their manhood’ for males.One thing I forgot to add in my review of STID on the other thread is the appreciation that the male characters cried. I LOVED that. I don’t believe things should be labled as ‘too girly’ or ‘too manly’. So you’re not convincing me of anything by using that argument.

74. Becca - May 17, 2013

So, in that sense, I guess I’m glad that a fan group will be happy. Bones and Spock will be married to Kirk, and Kirk will be married to the ship.

We aren’t a “fan group”. Many are long time ST fans who grew up idolizing Kirk and Spock and Bones and their friendship that was the heart of the show. Can’t blame us for wanting to see that echoed in the new films as well.

75. Megabyte117 - May 17, 2013

Wow. Well, I’m relieved someone addressed Barney’s questionably racist and misguided beliefs about desire for the “intellectual white man.” Furthermore, you say the supporters for that relationship are “black women.” I suppose as a hispanic female I don’t count in your gross generalization? Maybe I enjoy both characters and find their relationship entirely plausible. I’ll admit my bias for Uhura may be derived from my delight at her occupation as a fellow linguist and representing one of few competent main female characters on the screen. Good god man.

Great interview! Love Zoe, she’s absolutely adorable. She also makes a good point about Uhura being marginalized in the original series… Speaking of which…

I see a lot of users throwing around the Bechdel Test. While it’s an interesting manner of gauging female presence in film and media, simply because a film passes the test does not necessarily mean it serves as a exemplary example of females in that media.

Moving on to Uhura, she has several moments in the film where she distinguishes herself as a powerful character independent from simply serving as Spock’s love interest – most notably her attempt at diplomacy on Kronos. And when that attempt went south she ably defended herself. Then people here inexplicably have issues with her being an “action star”?? What?? So simply because Uhura is a communications officer means she would have no combat training? Even (language) analysts in the intelligence service go through similar defensive training. It’s logical to assume Uhura has endured such as she is an officer in Starfleet. I suspect there would be few complaints if Bones were taken down on the away team and similarly starred in an action scene.

Let’s also not forget Kirk similarly railed on Spock in the beginning of the film, Uhura was not alone in that regard. And he did so to an ADMIRAL. If you would like to argue that Uhura was unprofessional, then you need to include Kirk in that assessment as well.

76. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

#71 Dswynne:

The issue is not that people hook up. I am fully aware of that being married to a wonderful man who supports my views on gender equality for twenty years and counting. The issue is gender imbalance in female portrayals, and that females are predominantly shown through the male gaze, which includes displaying almost solely through their relation to men even if romance is but a small piece of what it is to be a woman.

And I’m not one to subscribe to gender stereotypes, so labeling things as too manly or too feminine does not sit well with me. Uhura was no less a woman when she shot the daylights out of Khan nor faced down Klingons. She was awesome. Nor were the menfolk lesser men for crying when people close to them died (which I LOVED, btw, forgot to include that in my review of the new film in that other thread. Orci, if you’re reading this, thank you for that). Labeling women who hold their own as trying to be ‘men’ is offensive. A woman can be anything she wants to be: tough, meek or anything in-between.

77. Disinvited - May 17, 2013

#60. barney – May 17, 2013

One thing I know as a male is I know nothing of what it is like to be a female.

However, being born and raised in the South of the US from the 1950s-60s, one thing I know a thing or two about is that area and era’s special breed of racism.

Thus it puzzles me how you arrive at the conclusion that the Spock character has been universally perceived as “white.” Within the science that its fiction touches upon, Spock is a hybrid. One, Vulcan racist views to the contrary, possessed of hybrid vigor but made to feel inferior in spite of much evidence to the contrary.

In the racist views of the real world 1960s’ Spock was labelled a “half-breed”, i.e. the lowest of the low because, in spite of science to the contrary, everyone just knows that such a “thing” embodies the worst of both worlds.

Appearance seems important to you. Of that, I can only observe that of all the women that I have known that were into Spock, they appeared to be attracted to his being portrayed as an oppressed, rejected outsider as opposed to the handsome, princely, king/captain.

78. Spock/Uhura Admirer ;-) - May 17, 2013

@#30: No, it doesn’t have to be another Vulcan. And besides, Spock is only half Vulcan anyway.

@#31 Trekkiegal63: I agree with most of what you are saying. My only issue is that instead of not showing the relationship at all, which seems to be what you are implying, I think it should be shown the way that it should work out. That’s how people learn, by what they see (you said so yourself). So, show them. Not showing her in a relationship at all doesn’t help anything. It probably even feeds the spinster stereotype and the belief that in order to be a “successful working woman” you can’t have anything but your job. There has traditionally been discrimination that’s worked that way too, where employers didn’t want a woman that was married or that they thought would “go off and have a family.” Sad.

@#35barney: Can you tell me where you’re getting your information from? Did you take a survey, or are you just telepathically connected to everyone like Professor X?

@#36mark: I would think after all this time that they are bonded, but from the way promotion (etc.) for this movie is going, they’ll never delve into the fantastic telepathic capabilities that come with being bonded, as well as the ability to feel each other’s emotions. My understanding is that words often become unnecessary for bonded couples.

@#42rick: ” I can only imagine how more evolved her character could be if she were released from being the girlfriend of one of the main characters.”

And why would that be, Rick? I didn’t know that having a boyfriend automatically renders a woman inert. As Spock would say: Fascinating!

I think I’m just going to call it a day after this. There’s just too much that can be replied to.

79. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

#75. Megabyte117:

As I’ve explained to other posters here before, the Bechdel Test is not meant to gauge a films progressive approach towards witty dialogue. It’s point lies within its exceedingly simple criteria. There are three, no more, no less, rules of the test.

A film must:

1: Contain more than one female character
2: Who then talk to each other
3: About something other than a man

What these two or more women talk about (besides men) is of little importance. In ST:Insurrection Crusher and Troi talked about breasts and they technically pass the test. What the test does point out, rather poignantly at that, is that few films pass even the easiest of criteria regarding female presence. It illustrates that women in film are a) underrepresented in number (on a ratio of 3 to 1 – go to the website seejane dot org and go under the research tab for confirmation on that figure) and b) when we are represented its predominantly through our relation to men.

Her scene on Kronos, while yes, awesome (as was the Khan/barge scene – LOVED IT), does not negate the fact that the bulk of her screentime was spent either arguing with Spock, about Spock, or wishing him luck and kissing him off on an away mission. And on the occasions the camera panned to her on scenes that weren’t solely hers, her facial expressions mirroed something Spock had done to elicit a response within her, indicating that she was thinking of Spock. IE she was shown through the ‘male gaze’. The Kronos scene in the movie was really the only scene that was hers and hers alone. That scene was all Nyota Uhura, not S/U. There needs to be more of that.

80. Rick - May 17, 2013

@78.Spock/Uhura Admirer

“And why would that be, Rick? I didn’t know that having a boyfriend automatically renders a woman inert. As Spock would say: Fascinating!”

Well if you indeed did read my comment, I gave many examples why I thought that would be. It’s pretty much the whole point of my post. Maybe read it again. Having a boyfriend and who that boyfriend happens to be rules nearly all her actions and dialogue. Her main storyline in the new film was that she was having boyfriend trouble. I was SO glad to see her kickass on Kronos and have something to do that isn’t Spock related and I’d like to see more of that.

81. Dr. Cheis - May 17, 2013

Ooh, she answered my question! I like her answer too. This is a much better Uhura than the original, no disrespect to Nichelle Nicohles (I’m sure she would have much rather played this Uhura than the classic one).

82. Trekkiegal63 - May 17, 2013

#78. Spock/Uhura Admirer:

It’s not an issue of women can’t be professional and in a relationship. Of course they can, I’m a living example of that. I work, 8:30 to 5:00, Monday thru Friday, then go home to be a mother and a wife. The issue here is, as I’ve said before, imbalanced representation. Women are predominantly shown in their relation to men and seldom any other way. Sometimes (actually most times) at risk to the character development of the woman outside of the romance, since most of her screen time is used to establish said relationship instead of just her.

Spock and Uhura are an example of this.

I am a Trekkie, and I have been for the bulk of my 50 years. My favorite series is, was, and has ever been TOS. Therefore any incarnation of Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Scotty, Sulu and Chekov are relevant to my interests. That said when I speak of not approving of the Spock/Uhura relationship it is not personal. I love Spock, and I love Uhura. I’m using them, as they are part of the franchise I love, as example to describe a problem with female portrayals within the film industry as a whole. I do not approve of the trend to portray women solely through their relations to men. I do not approve of the idea the bulk of a woman’s identity must be tied up in her love life when who she is as a person needs to be established first and be given time and development outside of said love life. I do not approve that a women needs a man to be interesting and worthy of fan worship (i.e. shipping) or to be featured prominently in a film.

I do not approve of the gender stereotype that a film must contain a romance to appeal to female viewers, like it’s the only thing we’re interested in. Speaking for me personally, it’s not. I have other interests, too. Like plot and character development.

To be honest, I probably would have liked the Spock/Uhura relationship better if it had happened not in the first film, and not offscreen like their being together was a foregone conclusion because of course the one and only female protagonist has to be with somebody according to Hollywood, but after the first and second film, as part of the third. That way we would have gotten awesome Nyota Uhura as an individual, then the romance. It would have felt less niche to me that way.

But we didn’t get that, so yes, as a feminist and a woman, I’m annoyed about that. And continue to be with every new film I see shot in the ‘male gaze’, not just Star Trek.

83. Spock/Uhura Admirer ;-) - May 18, 2013

@#74Becca: ” We aren’t a “fan group”. Many are long time ST fans who grew up idolizing Kirk and Spock and Bones and their friendship that was the heart of the show. Can’t blame us for wanting to see that echoed in the new films as well.”
I don’t blame you for anything, but you are a part of a fan group. It’s the first Star Trek fan group, but not the only one. There are people that are Star Trek fans that like TNG and/or other series, but not TOS. I take the view that they count as well. To think that only TOS fans are Star Trek fans for me is a bit obtuse. If we go along those lines, then then next thing that usually comes up is Real Fans ™ and True Fans ™. Those are discussions that are never fruitful and so I’d rather not go there.

@#80Rick: ” I was SO glad to see her kickass on Kronos and have something to do that isn’t Spock related and I’d like to see more of that.”

And you know, she had a boyfriend while she was being “kickass on Kronos.” So, are you sure the problem is the fact that she has a boyfriend? I don’t think it is.

@#82Trekkiegal63: ” Women are predominantly shown in their relation to men and seldom any other way. Sometimes (actually most times) at risk to the character development of the woman outside of the romance, since most of her screen time is used to establish said relationship instead of just her.”

I understand. Any my point is that taking the boyfriend out of the equation pretty much says that a woman can’t have both, so choose one. I don’t like that. I don’t think it should have to be one or the other. If, as you say, character development is hindered for women by the relationships they have with men and not the other way around, then I think challenging the way women in relationships are developed is the way to go instead of just dropping the relationship all together, which seems like an easy out. It doesn’t really deal with the issue at all; it’s avoidance.

” That said when I speak of not approving of the Spock/Uhura relationship it is not personal.”

I didn’t think you were being personal, and neither was I. We just seem to have different views. There are lots of ways a character in a relationship can be established while not making the relationship the focus the entire time, and I also think that any relationship a character has helps me to know more about them whether it be lover/mother/daughter/friend/colleague/etc. I just believe in a woman being well-rounded and not cut off from any opportunities in life, even love.

” I do not approve of the gender stereotype that a film must contain a romance to appeal to female viewers, like it’s the only thing we’re interested in. Speaking for me personally, it’s not. I have other interests, too. Like plot and character development.”

Well, I saw Spock/Uhura as more than just a romance, but a love story. Who knows what they do with it. I’m not sure about the stereotype, but I know that love in general appeals to people, generally speaking. Many of the classics (if not most) have some sort of love story tied in, and I think they are better for it. You say “plot” and “character development” as though they are always completely separate from a person’s love life. I don’t think they are.

” To be honest, I probably would have liked the Spock/Uhura relationship better if it had happened not in the first film, and not offscreen like their being together was a foregone conclusion because of course the one and only female protagonist has to be with somebody according to Hollywood, but after the first and second film, as part of the third. That way we would have gotten awesome Nyota Uhura as an individual, then the romance. It would have felt less niche to me that way.”

I think that the reason why we didn’t get a whole lot of Uhura as an individual in the first film is the same reason we didn’t get much of anyone other than Spock and Kirk as individuals in the first film: It was an introduction. There wasn’t enough time to develop everyone, and so Kirk, then Spock, got the bulk of the development. She didn’t fare any worse than anyone else outside of them.

” But we didn’t get that, so yes, as a feminist and a woman, I’m annoyed about that. And continue to be with every new film I see shot in the ‘male gaze’, not just Star Trek.”

Well, I just saw it, and it looks like things (at least in terms of as little or no S/U as possible) are moving in your direction. At this point, I don’t really see a need to discuss it. I just wish that if they were going to be going the “triumvirate” route that it had been more apparent in the ads, especially the early interviews when they were filming, for this film. That way I could have just had the first movie and been done a long time ago.

—————————————-

The main thing I like in a movie that is supposed to be about a team is team, with each character getting at least a little focus. That and a couple of other things really did work for this movie, and again, that’s my number one on my list. Outside of that, it was Spock/Uhura.

I have no issues with servicing certain fan groups. In fact, if done well, it’s a very smart thing to do. I only wish they had said, “Look this is a movie for the TOS fans,” up front. That way, it would have been clear. I do think that there’s enough in it for it to be okay if someone is not a TOS fan, but with all of the homages and the triumvirate/bromance, it’s very chocked full references to the past. To me, that’s just not boldly going. Instead, it felt like being drawn back.

84. DaddlerTheDalek - May 18, 2013

I love Saldana’s Uhura! <3

85. Trekkiegal63 - May 18, 2013

#83. Spock/Uhura Admirer:

Any my point is that taking the boyfriend out of the equation pretty much says that a woman can’t have both, so choose one. I don’t like that.

Under representation of women being in a romantic relationship is not a problem, like, at all, since the bulk of movies, regardless of genre, include them. There is definitely no lack of romance portrayed in film. In fact, it’s exactly the opposite, and that is the problem… how many single women leading satisfying lives do you see in film? Compare that to the list of female protagonists within a romance and you’ll get my meaning. It’s definitely not an ‘easy out’ to show independent women because Hollywood is convinced that sex sells. Mr. Abrams, himself, said in an interview for this new movie, and I quote:

“Star Trek has to be sexy. That’s in keeping with the original spirit of the series. In the 1960s they were limited because of the time, but so much was insinuated. Part of the fun of our first movie was playing with the idea that Uhura and Spock were a couple.”

There is so much wrong there.

However, having said that, I agree with you that romances as portrayed need to be developed better. As in the camera, instead of filming within the male gaze, needs to exhibit a women with free-agency (i.e. including scenes NOT revolving around her romantic relationship). That would be a great start.

You say “plot” and “character development” as though they are always completely separate from a person’s love life.

They are. Because women are seldom shown out of a romance, so her development as a character is shortchanged. Take Into Darkness for example. Uhura got exactly ONE scene entirely her own… the Klingon scene. Every other scene she had revolved around her relationship with Spock in some way. Even when the camera panned to her on a scene that wasn’t hers, her facial expressions were a reaction to something Spock had done. The film was less about developing Nyota Uhura, and more about developing Spock/Uhura. Same with the one before it.

As for plot… a lot of times romances are tacked onto an action film or science fiction films because of that belief that sex sells (and the gender stereotype that women wont see a film without a love story attached to it). When it happens the romance does not feel organic to the main story-arch of the film, it feels superfluous. As in, it doesn’t contribute, it throws you out of it. As a women I find it insulting that Hollywood believes I need such an obvious ploy for my attention. They might as well have a neon sign over the romance scenes “we apologize for interrupted this high speed chase, but we needed to add a romantic scene for the ladies, we’ll return to your regularly scheduled programming in just a minute”.

I think that the reason why we didn’t get a whole lot of Uhura as an individual in the first film is the same reason we didn’t get much of anyone other than Spock and Kirk as individuals in the first film: It was an introduction.

Exactly. So the bulk of the scenes she did have centered on her relationship with Spock instead of developing her, Nyota Uhura, an individual who is more than the sum of her relationship. Which is precisely why the romance should have happened later on. So we could get a sense of Uhura first, not Uhura – girlfriend of Spock.

Basically, it comes down to… I wish Hollywood would a) have more female presence that b) doesn’t revolve around their relationships with men. Not that I hate men (I was a daddy’s girl growing up, I have an excellent relationship with my brother – he’s a great friend, and I’m the wife of a husband whom I adore) but because I’m a woman and feel that our gender needs to be represented in a more balanced, realistic manner. Hate to break it to the film industry but we women do have thoughts, and take actions, and have conversations that don’t revolve around our relationships to and with men. Our love life is but one facet of who we are as human beings. It is high time the other facets are also shown. In fact, it’s past time.

86. Allenburch - May 18, 2013

I LOVE ZOE SALDANA

87. LJ - May 18, 2013

Sorry, but I’m not a fan of Saldana’s Uhura (though I am a fan of Saldana): the character now is too much of a cliche to me. She’s the kind of character Michelle Rodriguez could play: the feisty, semi-masculine girl in a relationship with a more effeminate man. The feisty officer role grew tired with Vasquez in Aliens. I, for one, prefer Nichols’ Uhura any day.

88. Rick - May 18, 2013

@83 Spock/UhuraAdmirer-

“And you know, she had a boyfriend while she was being “kickass on Kronos.” So, are you sure the problem is the fact that she has a boyfriend? I don’t think it is.”

Oh? And what would you say it is? I can’t believe I still have to spell out for you why I have that problem. You only pick out one sentence of my whole post. It’s like you are deliberately overlooking the rest.
Trekkigal

@83 Spock/UhuraAdmirer-

“And you know, she had a boyfriend while she was being “kickass on Kronos.” So, are you sure the problem is the fact that she has a boyfriend? I don’t think it is.”

Oh? And what would you say it is? I can’t believe I still have to spell out for you why I have that problem. You only pick out one sentence of my whole post. It’s like you are deliberately overlooking the rest.

Trekkiegal63 summed it up perfectly.

Also glad you mentioned Uhura on Kronos. Convenient you picked pretty much the ONLY scene she had that didn’t revolve around Spock. Quite literally all else she did was worry about her boyfriend. You kinda helped my case, so thanks.

I feel this this is useless anyways, hell you’re even called Spock/UhuraAdmirer, you were gonna stop watching the film if they even broke up. This subplot seemingly overshadows the whole rest of the movie to you. I’ll get nowhere arguing with you.

Not wanting or claiming Uhura is most prominent for her relationship to Spock isn’t wrong. I WANT her to have more scenes like on Kronos. Heck even like when she beamed down to earth, though she didn’t do much except shoot a phaser a few times. Could have had more. Instead we get scenes with her starting a fight on a mission like a pissed off teenager. I’m trying to say that she’s BETTER than that. I just want them to show it.

89. Rick - May 18, 2013

Also I have no idea why it posted the first part of my comment twice. Sorry about that.

90. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 18, 2013

I have just come online again and have not time to read through all the posts, so I hope I am saying something that someone else has already written.

“(S/U Admirer)You say “plot” and “character development” as though they are always completely separate from a person’s love life.
(Trekkiegal)They are.”

Yet the character development of this movie is all about the developing relationship/friendship between Spock and Kirk and both these male characters have always been defined by the friendship that has apparently developed between them. Bromance, it seems, is OK, but romance is not. Yet many of the same emotions come into play when handling both kinds of relationships – a sense of belonging, even a kind of possession, concern and sometimes fear for the other’s wellbeing, desiring of loyalty (see how let down Kirk felt when Spock told the whole story about the Nibiru incident) and so on.

Uhura starting a fight like a pissed off teenager? I guess you could see it that way, but that is not how I see it at all. One could say that the argument between Spock and Uhura should have been had in private, however, Uhura’s concerns over Spock’s behaviour were also Kirk’s concern. Ref. lift scene between Kirk and Uhura. This scene in the shuttle was the resolution to the queries that both Kirk and Uhura had about Spock, so the scene worked and was necessary in understanding where the character Spock was at and how his insights, feelings and attitudes affected his behaviour. Spock was forced to clear the air as to what was going on inside himself and that required that he trust his captain and his ship’s communications officer/troubleshooter (who was also his girlfriend)…

91. Trekkiegal63 - May 19, 2013

#90 Keachick:

Couple things…

I don’t think that anyone in their right mind would accuse either Kirk or Spock of not getting proper development as individuals. They’re the main protagonist. We know who their parents are, heck we saw Kirk’s birth (Spock’s was in the deleted scenes)! We know they both have daddy issues, in different ways, of course. We know of their childhoods. We know how they react to grief. We know some of Jim’s allergies. We know when Kirk is depressed he turns to the bottle, while Spock, when upset, turns within. There is no underdevelopment there. We now have a very good sense of who these two men are.

So know the questions is… what do we know of Uhura? Likes? Dislikes? Parents? Hobbies outside of her profession? In the Prime ‘verse we know she loves music and has a lovely singing voice, but we haven’t seen that in the new ‘verse so we can’t really add that to what we know of her.

Kirk and Spock having a bromance does not detract from their individual character development. Whereas Uhura has been shortchanged. Heck, we almost know more of McCoy’s background than hers. At least we know he is divorced and he lost everything within that divorce. We know he’s from Georgia.

Furthermore, as men, Kirk and Spock don’t have a history associated with them of being underrepresented in film. I’ve often wondered if the popularity of ‘slash’ among fandom is associated with the fact that women have been watching film through the ‘male gaze’ since the dawning of cinema therefore have become conditioned towards it (and before a thousand and one slash fans jump on my back, this is just my theory, I have nothing to substantiate it, just a personal opinion here and is not meant to be insulting or derogatory).

Male gaze. It means the camera, when filming a movie, tells the story from a male POV. That scripts are written from a male POV. To describe this in further detail I’ll use an example. Harry Potter. Seven books told from the POV of the main protagonist Harry. When we see Hogwarts we’re not seeing it objectively, we’re seeing it as Harry saw it. Harry’s impressions. Harry’s descriptions. When he fights with his friend Ron, we’re getting Harry’s thoughts during the fight, thus Harry’s side of the story. There’s a name for it, it’s called the unreliable narrator. What that means is not that the POV is wrong, necessarily, in fact, it doesn’t mean that at all, it simply means that we’re getting just one perspective. So while Harry would be looking at Hogwarts with wonder and using positive adjectives to describe it, if we used, say, Snape’s POV the descriptions of Hogwarts would be much different.

When female characters are used in film we’re not seeing them from a female POV, we’re seeing them from a male POV. Which is why the camera pans over their bodies longer than male actors, why they’re highly sexualized, and why their development is tied, almost explicitly, with their relation to men. The fall-out of that is that female characters are almost always underrepresented or misrepresented.

92. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

#17 – Keachick… “It is all about dudes and their dudebro relationships. They are the only relationships/friendships that matter. It seems that to the writers and producers, then and now, these male/male relationships are the only ones they are encouraged to write about, while they are often actively discouraged from dealing with any other types of relationships. It is really quite patriarchal and narcissistic…”

In a way, we do see things in a similar way and I agree that women do not get the same character development that male characters get. In the ongoing comic series, there is exposition given about Uhura’s upbringing etc, but none of it has made its way to either of these new movies, which, I agree, is not right. It is interesting to note that we now know slightly more about Carol Marcus (skills, family) than we know about Uhura. Strange really.

The thing is – my desire to see Kirk in a healthy heterosexual relationship with an intelligent, attractive woman comes from my own female point of view. That is not, however, what I (and others like me) have been treated to so far. Instead we have seen this man get constantly beaten up and get up without so much as a limp, who is only meant to relate with other male colleagues to form this much acclaimed bromance – duh and when he is with any female, is only shown for mere seconds. Women are shown to mean little to him, which sucks from my very female POV, but then again,
his character and story is written by MALE writers. Why such dismissive, disrespect for Kirk and any female he meets? I mean, we never did find out a single thing about the alien women with tails (Caitians?) who Kirk was with.

Perhaps we may see some more Carol Marcus character development and a relationship form between her and James Kirk, similar to how one happened in the prime universe or maybe not. It is possible that Dr McCoy may get Carol in this alt. universe or not. Who knows?

I am sick of this crap. You male writers need to step up or find a good female writer to help you become more rounded and creative in your characterization of the so few women that Star Trek has to begin with.

93. AWinnerisYou - May 20, 2013

None of the characters other than Kirk and Spock get any character development. Honestly, that’s how it was in the original movies also. In my opinion, the Kirk / Spock / McCoy friendship is the foundation of the original movies. That’s why Spock’s death at the end of TWOK was so profound and poignant as opposed to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan II.

In the prime universe, the trinity consisted of Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Looks like they’ve swapped McCoy out for Uhura and it works well. That means her relationship with Spock is VITAL to the story. In fact, her argument with Spock on Qo’noS heavily contributes to Spock’s narrative arc. He’s desperately trying to reconcile between his conflicting Vulcan and Human instincts, especially after the destruction of his planet and the death of his mother, opting to toss himself into dangerous situations in hopes of dying. Uhura’s conversation forces him to admit that he is afraid of death. One might argue that Uhura is nothing more than an accessory to Spock’s narrative arc.

And you’re right. She is. The question you have to ask yourself now is whether or not it’s a gendered decision rather than bad writing. As I stated before, ALL of the other characters (other than Scotty, I guess) are treated as accessories to the plot. At least Uhura is given more screen time (and relevance) than the others.

Even so, they’re TRYING to include an intelligent female in the mix and I think they’re on the right path. Uhura isn’t “defined” by her relationship with Spock at all — she’s portrayed as a strong-willed, independent, competent, extremely useful Starfleet officer. She stands her ground and speaks her mind multiple times throughout the movie:

Kirk: Are you two really going to do this now? C’mon-
Uhura: -Just two seconds, Captain.

And even Spock acknowledges this:
Spock: Captain, if you interrupt now, not only will you incur the wrath of the Klingons, but of the Lieutenant also.

In other words, don’t tick Lt. Uhura off. She’ll $*&#*$ you up, regardless of your rank.

Personally, I find the whole “male gaze” thing mostly nonsense. Of course you’re seeing the story from a “male gaze” — the protagonist is male. It’s like complaining that men are underrepresented in HBO’s “Girls.” The term “male gaze” usually means “male positive,” meaning the males aren’t presented in an idiotic, bumbling fashion.

Something tells me you probably preferred Starbuck over President Roslin in the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica.

94. TrekTexas - May 20, 2013

#92 &93

I’ve been a Star Trek fan since I watched TOS as a teen-the characters are my favorite fictional heroes, on an equal footing with my historical heroes.

The one thing about it I disliked even then was that the main characters never got to have a relationship/spouse/family the way guys/girls in the real military did (my dad was in the AF at the time). That made it just like the westerns and most cop shows on TV-all bromance, and the women rode off into the sunset after a few kisses and maybe some time in the captain’s rack or the chief medical officer’s, or rarely- Spock’s.

The movies and TNG were pretty much the same-by then I was married to a career military officer myself, and I knew perfectly well that most service members had spouses and families in real life, even if they were not always stationed together. But except for the Troi/Riker on-off relationship, the main characters on the Enterprise were still bereft of the company of the opposite sex except for-shades of TOS-the occasional roll in the hay, romance that ends badly, etc. Both Troi and Dr.Crusher seemed to excel at the latter. The TNG movies finally got
Riker and Troi together for good, but after all that time, who noticed?

I really like the new characters’ personalities-yes, the more “human” Spock, too-and have to agree that character development in the new movies is thin so far, but I really don’t see how it can happen in any depth in a movie-especially in what is essentially an action movie.

If characters are to be really developed/fleshed out both professionally and personally-having relationships and conflicts at work, spouses, families, deep friendships,and such, it would work best in a Trek TV series in the new timeline. The exploration, battles, humorous incidents, moral dilemmas, etc would entertain for years to come, just like other successful series.

Battlestar Galactica did all that, and I never miss an episode when it is shown on BBCA on the weekends-I enjoyed the interconnected romances, friendships and conflicts among the crew-and the civilians-which seemed much more real as far as personal interactions/relationships than either Star Trek series. And yes, I did like Kara much better than Roslin, likely because I choose to work with my hands, in a male dominated profession and am not a frilly woman.

Lastly, I seem to remember from TWOK that Carol Marcus-in the original timeline-supposedly kicked Kirk to the curb because she didn’t like his world/choice of profession, and didn’t even tell him she was knocked up because she didn’t want her kid following after his father. So she deprived him of his parental rights-the movie should have ended with him taking her to court.

If she is still that much of an opportunist and selfish woman-we didn’t really get much from her new incarnation-I only hope Captain Kirk finds a more caring and emotionally healthy female service member to share his time and life with-his character would likely be happier both in his off-time and as a CO…

95. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 21, 2013

In TWOK it was explained that Kirk knew that Carol was expecting his child. Dr McCoy actually delivered the baby. Carol then told Kirk to stay away, which he did, because she didn’t want the child galavanting around the galaxy with his father (which would only have happened when the child was older anyway). She said, “I wanted him in my world” (or something like that). It also turned out that Carol lied to their son, David, about his father, telling David that his father was dead and that David was the result of a casual sexual encounter.

Prime Carol Marcus was a self-centered, lying BITCH!

You are right. If this alt. Carol Marcus is anything like her prime counterpart, I hope this Kirk finds out sooner rather than later and loses the bitch – FAST. There have got to be better women out there and surely this Kirk deserves better.

96. TrekTexas - May 22, 2013

Thank you-I haven’t seen TWOK in quite awhile, so I didn’t remember Carol having said she was pregnant or that she had lied to David-but I do remember Kirk telling Carol he stayed away, just like she asked him to. Telling her son he was the result of a roll in the hay is like saying “I’m a slut, so here you are, kid”. And, you’re doubly right-her character was a self-absorbed, lying bitch.

I’d much rather see the main characters in healthy romantic relationships- even though it spoils what some view as a canon boys’ club, bromance. etc -than have them doing the aforementioned rack time, smiling fondly as the woman rides away with a wave and a kiss, and the guys console each other and take shore leave together to toast marshmallows and drink whiskey around a camp fire. I thought that was a fairy tale then, and it is more so now, IMO.

With that premise, what is Uhura supposed to do? The same as the guys-do the one night stand, suck it up, go to the BX and buy some sexy new skivvies to cheer up? Characters like that, especially women-are not really very admirable as heroes, never mind that it is totally unrealistic…

97. Pictures Areolas Size - May 26, 2013

Hi! It seems as though we both have a passion for the
same thing. Your blog, ” Exclusive: Saldana Not Ready For Spock/Uhura Pon Farr + Win Zoe-signed iPad Mini from a+ mag | TrekMovie.com” and mine are very similar.
Have you ever thought of authoring a guest post for a similar blog?
It will certainly help gain publicity to your website
(my site recieves a lot of targeted traffic). If you’re interested, contact me at: taylor_stafford@freenet.de. Thanks

98. pink taco - May 28, 2013

Heya, I’m blogger like you, and wanted to ask, since Googles Panda Update, my website gets not anywhere found anymore :( But when i searched for Exclusive: Saldana Not Ready For Spock/Uhura Pon Farr + Win Zoe-signed iPad Mini from a+ mag | TrekMovie.com your site was around the primary page. Want to reveal any recommendations with me? I privately use only DuckDuckGo as search engine given that Google screwed just about all up. DuckDuckGo is like Google prior to they made a decision to prefer only the big monster sites!

99. Derick - May 28, 2013

Hey! I just noticed your website: Exclusive:
Saldana Not Ready For Spock/Uhura Pon Farr + Win Zoe-signed iPad Mini
from a+ mag | TrekMovie.com when I was browsing reddit.com.
It looks as though someone liked your website so much they decided to bookmark it.

I’ll undoubtedly be coming here more often.

100. Girl on Girl - May 28, 2013

Hello! This is my 1st comment here so I just wanted to give a quick shout out and tell you I truly enjoy reading your articles.

Can you suggest any other blogs/websites/forums that cover the same topics?
Many thanks!

101. Gorgeous Girls Pictures - May 28, 2013

Have you ever considered about including a little bit more than just your articles?
I mean, what you say is important and everything.
But think of if you added some great graphics or video clips to give your posts more, “pop”!
Your content is excellent but with images and clips, this website
could certainly be one of the greatest in its niche.
Good blog!

102. Markus - May 28, 2013

Hmm is anyone else having problems with the pictures on this blog loading?
I’m trying to determine if its a problem on my end or if it’s the blog.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

103. Bare Photos - May 31, 2013

Hi just wanted to give you a quick heads up and let you know a few of the pictures aren’t loading properly. I’m not
sure why but I think its a linking issue. I’ve tried it in two different internet browsers and both show the same results.

TrekMovie.com is represented by Gorilla Nation. Please contact Gorilla Nation for ad rates, packages and general advertising information.