Sticky: Into Darkness – Open Weekend Thread & Polls | TrekMovie.com
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Sticky: Into Darkness – Open Weekend Thread & Polls May 17, 2013

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback


Vote and chat about Star Trek Into Darkness all weekend in sticky open thread.

 

Sticky 3: Into Darkness Opening USA/Canada Weekend

No things are really cooking, the previews, the galas, the early country dubuts are all behind…today is the first day of the first domestic weekend for Star Trek Into Darkness.

TrekMovie.com has already posted a review and now it is your chance. TrekMovie has created a new fan reviews page for Into Darkness.

POLLS

Here are our current polls for those who have seen Into Darkness, including a new one about Benedict Cumberbatch’s John Harrison (OK this is a spoiler page…on Cumberbatch’s KHAN!)

[poll id="719"]

[poll id="718"]

[poll id="716"]

DISCUSS STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS (WITH ANY SPOILERS)

Below chat about the movie, including discussing any spoilers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WARNING: This open thread is for people who have seen the movie. If you haven’t seen the movie you really shouldn’t be reading this as you are sure to get spoiled.

 

 

 

 

Previous Into Darkness Spoiler Discussion Threads

May 15 – Domestic Fan Sneak Open Day

May 8 – Early Countries Open Day

Comments

1. Anthony Pascale - May 17, 2013

Shall we begin…again?

2. EnsignJack - May 17, 2013

KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN!!!!!!!!!

3. EnsignJack - May 17, 2013

I called section 31 being in the movie way back in december!! Called it!!

4. K-7 - May 17, 2013

Come on now, enough with the Gene Rodenberry revisionist history. The man should be given his due credit of course for getting Trek started, but this idea of him being the main creative force behind TOS is just bull — DC Fontana, Gene L. Coon and several others were primarily responsible for the creativity behind the original series.

Star Trek TMP showed us all what happens to Trek when Gene Roddenberry took the creative reigns of TOS — we got an OK hard sf movie that, while visually stunning, wasn’t TOS Star Trek we were hoping for. And then we got Seasons 1 and 2 of TNG — Trek so boring and inane that it is still a miracle we all stuck with it.

So please spare me the whining about Gene Roddenberry in relation to STID..

5. An Old Codger - May 17, 2013

I had not finished reading through the last thread. Is there a place where it is archived? Or am I out of luck?

6. cornflakes87 - May 17, 2013

Am I the only one who thinks that Harrison is NOT Kahn, but one of his followers protecting him. If you see the first guy in the cryo tube, it looks like he has the same hairstyle Ricardo Montalban had in the Original Series. At least that is what I saw.

7. Neverpayingtoseethis - May 17, 2013

Once again. Horrible movie that I am grateful my movie theater friend allowed me to see for free.

8. USS Enterprise B - May 17, 2013

Just came back from seeing it in IMAX 3D… first words out of my mouth after I saw it were… I knew it was Khan! I knew it. I don’t see why it needed to be such a big secret… A lot happened and I’m still digesting it all. Overall it was a fun action sci fi adventure and I liked it a lot. I’m going to see it once or twice more to form a better opinion on it but overall it was very satisfying. I got what I paid for. :)

9. lostrod - May 17, 2013

Saw it one time. Unsure if I’ll see it again.

Regsrds.

10. PaulB - May 17, 2013

I just want to say, amidst my previous-thread criticisms of the film, that I really love a lot of it.

Chris Pine deserves serious respect for what he does with Kirk here, with a character arc that shows in his eyes and bearing–awesome! (And here’s where the writers did a lot of smart, sharp writing.)

Quinto and the rest are even better than in the first film, with Scotty feeling MUCH more like TOS Scotty while still getting plenty of Pegg’s own charm. Every performance (except Weller’s over-the-top stuff) was inspiring.

I was only distracted by lens flares a couple of times, compared to dozens and dozens of times in Trek’09. The score was less obtrusive and, I think, better than the first. I want to listen to it again, where the first one left me uninterested.

Despite the, um, “homages” to the past, Kirk and Spock have a wonderful relationship arc here, with Kirk taking the lead (he IS a natural leader) because he knows they should be friends. I believe these two actors and their performances will be as beloved as Shatner and Nimoy through the years.

11. K-7 - May 17, 2013

@7. Well, like your experience, I am glad that Anthony doesn’t charge a subscription for this website, as then I would have to be paying to read asinine comments like yours.

12. DC - May 17, 2013

Just so it’s clear, is the poll question about Cumberbatch’s performance with what he was given or his character as a whole (the way he was written, performance, etc,)?

13. Josh C. - May 17, 2013

“My name…is ASFAFEDWABGWREGFR” *dies on own spit*

14. Matt - May 17, 2013

It was a great movie. I loved it from start to finish. I actually felt sorry for Khan until he start becoming all batshit crazy and started crushing people’s skulls and breaking women’s legs by stepping on them. the Spock vs Khan fight was just amazing. I felt sorry to see Pike die. Bruce Greenwood did an awesome job as Christopher Pike. Benedict Cumberbatch did an awesome job portraying “Khan”, i wouldn’t be surprised if he was nominated for a Best Supporting Actor award.

15. marty - May 17, 2013

i posted in the other thread. #956 if you wish to take the time to read that book..

reusing khan and all the other moments=bad. movie would’ve been pretty cool if khan’s britishness was explained.

i predict this movie will make less than ’09, but probably more than WoK.. and it’ll probably be reviewed as silly from the ‘real’ trekkies. which isn’t acceptable.

i really must reiterate that please, boborci, if you’re involved in the next movie, fix the timeline. some how, some way.. with that said, i do have a great idea for star trek’s “golden anniversary”.. ;)

16. Notpayingtoseethis - May 17, 2013

You don’t pay for Internet k 7?

Looks though like you’ll pay to see any steaming pile and call it great

17. cpelc - May 17, 2013

@6 yeah can’t wait for screen cap of that guy that bones and Marcus see. Obviously not meant to be Khan but would be cool if he looks like another actor from the TOS episode

18. Matt - May 17, 2013

if they do a third one what do you think they should place it during the five-year mission? i’m thinking it should be near the end of the mission that way if they ever decide to do a tv series, they can just fill in the five years.

19. Anthony Pascale - May 17, 2013

links for the last two open threads are above at bottom of article

20. boborci - May 17, 2013

ok. leaving other thread. If you posted question there and I didn’t answerm let;s do it here.

21. Josh C. - May 17, 2013

The only reason I’m hoping Into Darkness doesn’t bomb is because I want to see a third movie. But I’d also like to teach a lesson to those who wantonly play with the most famous villain in Star Trek too.

Though, given the numbers so far, they may have a lower than expected opening weekend…

22. K-7 - May 17, 2013

@16. Sure, whatever you say, troll. LOL

23. Curious Cadet - May 17, 2013

@6. cornflakes87,
“Am I the only one who thinks that Harrison is NOT Kahn, but one of his followers protecting him. If you see the first guy in the cryo tube, it looks like he has the same hairstyle Ricardo Montalban had in the Original Series. At least that is what I saw.”

Nope, you are not the only one. We’ve been discussing over on the previous thread, how there’s nothing in STID canon that prohibits that very scenario.

Most likely this is not the intent of the filmmakers, but nothing prevents a future filmmaker from doing exactly that. In fact it works particularly well if anyone wants to take another stab at a Khan story and BC doesn’t want to reprise his role.

24. boborci - May 17, 2013

14. Matt

Interesting part about K going nuts is that Kirk betrayed him first by ordering Scotty to stun him…

25. Steve Johnson - May 17, 2013

I really don’t think the writers have to “fix” the time line at all. I think they ned to realize they really are, as Sulu said on occasion “free and clear to navigate.” Take the franchise to new places. Seriously. This movie really id dont need khan. The mystery about who John Harrison really was, was the hype, not the answer to the mystery itself.

Take us way out into the galaxy for the next one. Cut the Enterprise off from Starfleet somehow. Get Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Uhura on the planet. Give Scotty or Sulu some time to shine in the center seat. Throw them into a dangerous landscape where our heroes have to use their wit and guile to survive. Something they find sparks a huge revelation…

…and have it end with a new mission directive established for a TV series of some kind. Either with a ship and crew in the same universe, or for this group of characters in maybe an animated format. Something.

Hell, you could even establish one of those other Constitution class ships for a new TV series. How about a show centered around Decker and his people aboard the Constellation? They wouldn’t have to be killed by the planet killer in this universe, and thusly could have a five year mission of their own.

26. boborci - May 17, 2013

23. Curious Cadet.

True enough.

27. Josh C. - May 17, 2013

@boborci –

Kirk, I believe, said in the movie that he hadn’t lost anyone under his command. However, in the comics, there were several stories where he lost people (Gary Mitchell most notably).

Now, I know you’ve said the stories are canon unless the movies say otherwise, but I guess my question is: what incentive do we have to continue reading the comics if half of them are seemingly going to be wiped out by the movie?

28. Anthony Pascale - May 17, 2013

Bob

Are you saying that Khan has anger management problems?

Maybe K was abandoned as a child and any sense of betrayal (leaving him on Seti Alpha, ordering Scotty to stun him) just sets him off

29. TerranGuy93 - May 17, 2013

@boborci, Is there any particular reason you chose to parallel an existing story rather than do something completely new and unique?

Perhaps fighting off an alternate Robert April like the very well done prequel comic. I honestly found that to be much more intriguing.

Also, whats with the travel time from Earth and the heart of the Federation to Qo’noS, the heart of the Klingon empire?

30. Randy - May 17, 2013

Copying from the other thread since boborci is here again:

@boborci RE #67: “We did, however, consider and conceive of the story without K in mind. If you think about it, he could’ve revealed his name was Schmuko with a slightly different back story (super criminal from Federation jail, etc…) and that Marcus used him by threatening other people he cared about (family instead of crew) and the story still stands.”

If this is the case, then why didn’t you have it turn out that Cumberbatch’s character was Joachim or maybe another augment we haven’t met before? It would have been so much more refreshing than just rehashing the plot of “TWOK” with a few details mixed around. Besides, Khan has been adrift in space since 1996 – before the timelines diverged. I’d buy a subtle change in his appearance, but not one this drastic, especially considering Khan is supposed to be of a Sikh background. The resemblance would have worked much better: http://i.imgur.com/hasNA2C.png

I know you’ve since said that you’ll address Khan’s race change at a later point, but I’m really hoping you’re not just going to turn up with “he had to surgically alter his appearance to escape” or something like that.

I do have to commend you for the interpersonal relationships between the main crewmembers – they were a lot more believable in this film than in the 2009 film (to me). Some of the scenes between Kirk & Spock were excellent, even if I wasn’t a fan of Kirk’s death scene. Also, thanks for making not one but TWO “Deep Space Nine” references – it gets treated like the bastard child of the “Trek” franchise far too often.

In short: even with the stuff I do like about the film, I just can’t buy Cumberbatch being cast as Khan. That pretty much killed my enjoyment of the film – it turned from something original into a rehash of things we’ve already seen with some details switched around. Hope you don’t hate me for saying so, but that’s how I feel.

31. Clinton - May 17, 2013

@boborci I think I asked this in the other thread. Trying to phrase it correctly. It’s not a slight on the script, I’m just slow sometimes to catch things. When Spock talks to Spock Prime, after Prime tells Spock that Khan is likely to kill them all, Spock asks how they defeated him in the Prime universe. Here’s what I missed (again, not you, most likely me), if Prime did tell Spock how they did it, did that info pay off/prove useful later in the story?

32. Josh C. - May 17, 2013

My view of Khan is that he is someone you can work with UNTIL he feels he has the advantage. I think Khan, as a character, would have taken over the Vengeance and demanded the capsules whether Kirk had stunned him or not.

33. Anthony Pascale - May 17, 2013

BTW, there is a new STID poll above. Each new thread adds one new poll so there are now 3 STID polls running

34. You want me to put on a WHAT color shirt!?!? - May 17, 2013

Bob Orci –

Not a question but a comment. I thought the movie was terrific and well worth the wait. What I really appreciated was the subtle balance you showed with the humor. TOS was filled with funny moments amidst all of the action and soul searching. It is very easy to get this balance wrong and I thought the lighter moments in STID were of a perfect tone. Thanks.

35. Doc - May 17, 2013

@boborci

Is there any chance of you doing anything with the possible Klingon war in the next movie?

36. Disinvited - May 17, 2013

Re:#865 on the closed thread. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) – May 17, 2013

You and I banged heads on many things, but I don’t every recall dismissing your Khan contentions out of hand. I always accepted your Anthony’s report evidence. I sat on the fence in finding other contentions equally plausible but I feel I always thought you had a shot at being right.

I did point out that in the Garth presentation that he would be a way to have your Khan and yet not have him too but I never claimed any others’ plausible scenarios trumped yours in likelihood.

We contributed to over 400 threads here where Khan was mentioned. It’s going to take me a while to see what I might have done that might require an acknowledgement of outright error.

However, congratulations are due for sticking to your guns and having your scenario prevail as I do recall being a fence sitter.

37. J_Randomuser - May 17, 2013

Just got back from seeing it. Overall, I was actually quite impressed with JJ and the gang.

I will admit that I was one of the 4% who read the spoilers. I wanted to a least know what I was walking into. And, truth be told, i was that suprised when I read Cumberbatch was Khan. I was excited to see how it got handled and what kind of narrative choices Orci & Co made, and to be honest, with a few exceptions, I was very impressed.

For the first time in a while we got a truely compelling Star Trek movie. Not that the reboot was terrible, but it was very heavy on the exposition. This time around, we were thrown into a movie that was fairly well thought out.

Things I liked: Firstly, Pine’s Kirk finally had to learn the consequences of his actions. This was something I thought was sorely lacking in the first movie. Shat Kirk was a lot of things, but totally careless was not one of them. Over the course of the movie, I really feel like Orci and crew went to great pains to develop Kirk’s personality closer to the man that we all know and love. Pine does a great job growing into the role. I was NOT impressed after the first movie, this time around I’m actually starting to like his performance and was pleased to see him acting more like a Captain and less like a Cowboy.

Quinto continues to make bold choices in his performance as Spock. As an actor, playing Spock is rife with peril to either be too wooden or too Nimoy-ish (…and trust me, that actually COULD be a bad thing). Quinto is bringing a new depth to the character and I am also very pleased with his performance. The Spock/Uhura thing….well, not so impressed. But I’ll give them an extra point for effort on this one.

Cumberbatch was AMAZING… as a Replicant. I had a tough time buying him as Khan. Del Toro or Bardem were obviously great initial choices, but alas, they passed on the movie. This is no way should detract from Cumberbatch’s performance. He was masterful in his portrayal of this character (something a lot of pervious Trek bad guys lacked). However, once the Hispanic contigents passed on the movie, perhaps it would have been to just give Cumby his own character instead of stepping into Montelban’s shoes. A different and equal deadly Replicant may have served to bolster the movie. Instead, as great as Cumby was, I kept saying to myself “He isn’t Khan”. But, again, Cumberbatch was enthrawling and definately deserves high praise.

The biggest bone most people seem to be picking with the movie is the Reactor room scene with Kirk. I have to say, I actually thought it amazingly poetic. Orci has demonstrated his penchant for turning classic Trek stories on their ears with the comics, and I have actually enjoyed this. As soon as Scotty says “Don’t go in there, the radiation will kill you” I knew what was going to happen. And it was TOTALLY OK WITH IT. I thought it was a beautiful homage to TWOK, including the moving scene between Kirk and Spock (this time reversed). Hell, I was even OK with Spock crying, because they are finding their own ways to deal with Spock inner conflict. I bought the whole frackin’ thing… right up until Spock lets out the “KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!”. And then I literally smacked my forehead in the middle of the theater. My girlfriend, a non-Trekker, looked at me and said “are you quite alright?”. Sorry, Bob, but you had me until that moment. It wasn’t a crippling blow, but it was pretty bad. I get how you’re trying to develop the character, I really do. But there is NO WAY Spock would EVER loose his composure quite like that.

Overall, I’ll give it an 8 out of 10. Really, really, really, good. Not perfect. But, I emphatically state that this was a huge move forward for the Supreme Court. The really grew our characters and, while the film DOES pander to the popcorn crowd with a lot of explosions and few utterances of the “Shit” (which, by the way, I’m not quite sure how I feel about that. Not that I’m a prude or anything. I swear like a drunken sailor in a whorehouse, but Star Trek generally has stuck with one “shit” per movie), I do feel like this really is a new Star Trek for a new generation.

I hope you guys can pull of #3 for the 50th. That would be super cool. Also, if we can MAYBE get back to the whole “seek out new life and new civilizations…” thing and a little less of the angry revenge thing, that would be great.

PS: Speaking as a professional Blues musicians, my hats off to JJ or whomever for picking Albert King for the bar scene when Kirk looses command of the Enterprise. I _KNEW_ Kirk was a Blues man!

38. Ahmed - May 17, 2013

Please keep Lindoff away from Star Trek XIII

Thanks

39. EnsignJack - May 17, 2013

@boborci question: when kirk died, why couldnt they have taken blood from the other genetically enhance humans from the Botony Bay located in the torpedos? Why did they need Kahn’s “super blood”?

40. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 17, 2013

Dilithium_Doubledeck,

Gingerly,

Thanks for commenting on me being right on Khan — much appreciated!

41. LogicalLeopard - May 17, 2013

2. Curious Cadet – May 17, 2013

@1333. LogicalLeopard,
“Khan actually has a REASON for his change in appearance.”

Are you talking about the excuse that a fourth grade history student writing a paper on Khan might recognize him on the street, et al?

Hmmmm. So if Khan had merely had facial reconstruction, and looked more like Naveen Andrews, that people would still point and say, ‘hey, see that Indian looking man over there? I think he might be that dictator from 300 years ago named Kahn.’?

Do you really think it also took a complete race change, along with an affected British accent to ensure no one recognized him?

****************

No, I think that the producers thought Cumby was the best person for the role and cast him. And I also think that when I think about it for five seconds, an in-movie solution presents itself. Khan is a recognizeable historical figure from an age where there was sleeper ships, and he went missing. He probably needs a new identity. He didn’t need to be English, but why not? If it were me, Is go Native American or Polynesian instead of black. Or maybe Asian. It’s not like A Federation Doctor can’t do it in a few painless hours. Never seemed to be a problem before.

My point is this: we can’t expect for every little detail to be explained on camera. If you find a workable solution to a question, I say use it. I get hacked off on canon issues like the next guy, but some stuff is so easily explained it doesn’t warrant that much attention.

42. Nick Tierce - May 17, 2013

@boborci

Forgive the repeat question from the last thread, but I’m dying to know:

Did Hendorff/Cupcake die on Kronos?!

His issue of the ongoing comic made me love him, and we’re left hanging in regards to his fate in the movie. He boards Mudd’s ship with Kirk, Spock, and Uhura, but we never see if he makes it back.

43. mrst - May 17, 2013

Star Trek Into Darkness is a great film. It turns everything from the original series into overdrive. Abrams knows how to reinvent and intrigue. The dialogue is awesome, Kirk’s playboy person is intact, and the intellect and action oh my…Its Star Trek in every way just new faces and a level cool that I appreciate. Nothing is suppose to be the same or die an early grave trying to fit into a mold so enjoy it for what is now and will be.

44. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 17, 2013

Anthony, a question for you. Do you feel somewhat vindicated that the vast majority of posters here over the past year doubted your breaking news story from last April, confirming it was Khan; with some people even suggested that you were deliberately duped by your inside sources?

I for one, trust you 100% when you break a major Trek news story. I think others have now learned their lesson on this as well.

Thanks for your outstanding coverage of STID, and in particular, your vastly unappreciated breaking news story from April 2012 — perhaps the biggest news story in Trekmovie.com history — where you told us all that Khan was confirmed.

Let people doubt you at their own major risk going forward.

Dude, you should be working for Empire or SFX — you are that good.

45. Curious Cadet - May 17, 2013

@34. You want me to put on a WHAT color shirt!?!?

Re-post your post credits request from the last thread … HILARIOUS!! They totally should have done something like that …

46. boborci - May 17, 2013

41 Nick
I didn’t see him die. Did you?

47. Josh C. - May 17, 2013

When I saw it at midnight as part of the double feature, I think the scene that got the biggest reaction from the screen was when Kirk told Chekov “go put on a red shirt”

Everyone in the theater was like “UH OH” lol

48. boborci - May 17, 2013

39. EnsignJack

Other are frozen, time is of the essence, Bones said they could die if he wakes them up without proper tech/sequencing, and he KNOWS what K’s blood can do. He knows nothing about the others.

49. David Oakes - May 17, 2013

This may be embarrassing but i’m gonna say it anyway.

I may have been suffering from fatigue from lack of sleep for a few days but the first thing I did when I got hom from STID was to bawl my eyes out. Not in a bad way. I’ve been a Star Trek fan since I saw The Wrath Of Khan when I was still in single figures. I’m now 34 and every so often a new Star Trek film comes around. To me it’s a bit like seeing a really old, close friend you’ve known since you were tiny that you meet up with every so often and you hang out for two hours, get a big hug and then they’re gone again. But you can always depend on them to be there for you.

That’s kinda how I felt when I saw Into Darkness. I’ve *never* been disappointed when seeing the latest Trek film in the cinema. I always have a great time whilst i;m there. Even Nemesis. Hell I even love The Final Frontier despite it’s flaws.

I cannot wait til Trek (1)3 in 2016. And here’s to many more from Bad Robot & Co.

50. Cameron Devlin - May 17, 2013

@boborci Its clear that the studio or yourself considers the new “troika” to be KIrk, Spock and Uhura but please, for the next film, can we get ONE scene to echo the brilliance of the Kirk/Spock/McCoy meeting in Wrath Of Khan discussing Genesis?

Even as a long term fan, I love that the new films go for fast pace over long dialogue – its how Trek has to be to survive the modern era, and you know it better than most – but the one thing that has been missing from both of your Trek films so far is McCoy doing anything other than spout catchphrases. I get it, I really do, but please try to sneak a scene past them next time round that slows the film down for 2 minutes just to remind everyone about the logic vs emotion duality that Spock and McCoy bring to Kirk, and therefore the audience. That was the true brilliance of the original series, and it deserves a place in your version.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for all you’ve done so far.

51. David Oakes - May 17, 2013

Hi Bob. Here’s to 4 more Trek’s from Bad Robot & Co. :)

52. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 17, 2013

Bob, I LOVE STID. It’s OUTSTANDING!. I even like your political statements/conspiracy stuffy in the movie. WELL DONE, MY FRIEND!!!!!

Bob, I predict you all will bring Khan back in movie #4 or #5, if this series of movies makes it that far.

Looking forward to seeing how you handle the first encounter with The Borg in ST 2015. ;-)

53. Anthony Pascale - May 17, 2013

MJ

I of course take pride in my work like anyone else. But I am not going to knock anyone for having a healthy dose of skepticism.

And BTW we were not the first to report the bit about Khan, I dont even think we were the 10th. But I like to be sure before I post something.

54. Sherlock - May 17, 2013

@boborci

I thank you and your team a thousand times for reigniting Star Trek, not only as a brand. The 09 movie was a great ride and a well done homage to the classic series, but by dealing with contemporary issues, character studies and some plot twists in this one, the right direction is definitely taken. I hope your commitment to Star Trek will outlive the third installment.

For in the final analysis only two minor aspects bother me:
1. Give those awesome films more time. Some more dialogue and reflection of what happened to Starfleet and San Francisco
2. After Nemesis, 09 and Into Darkness that’s the third time the Enterprise faces a big dark superior ship. What kind of flagship is that?

But still, I loved Into Darkness and am certainly going to drag some more friends into the movies for a second look next week.
Thank you.

55. George - May 17, 2013

Did anyone notice the models on Admiral Marcas’ desk? I wasn’t expecting to see the Enterprise from Star Trek Enterprise. Any way I loved the film and will see it again and also pre-order the blu-ray

56. Unbel1ever - May 17, 2013

@boborci

I remember the question of travel times etc. came up already with ST09. Back then you replied to those short travel times that time on screen does not necessarily reflect time passed. However, this time around this does not work for the trip from the Neutral Zone to Earth as it takes about as long as it takes Carol to reach the bridge. So it’s really short. Could you elaborate a bit on how travel in this universe works also with regard to transwarp beaming. Why do they use starships when they have that? Will we see inter-galaxy travel in the future?

57. David Oakes - May 17, 2013

55. George – May 17, 2013

Yeah and Enterprise 1701 was absent…

58. BotanyBay - May 17, 2013

Anthony, when it comes to that story from way back when you confirmed Khan, Spock Prime, and Klingons to be in the film…did you ever doubt that report? It was posted then never really referred to anymore. Did you hear that the creative team planned to use Khan as a big reveal in the movie so you decided to play along and stop talking Khan? Or did you think maybe the sources may have been wrong? Just curious about it all, good job of figuring it out way back when…I look forward to all of the speculation about the next film!

59. Anthony Pascale - May 17, 2013

REMINDER and WARNING
following up on post in the last thread about spamming your opinion over and over being a nono, using multiple names is not the way around that and gets permaban.

It is simple folks. All opinions are welcome just be civil and if you can try to be concise or at least coherent. I strive to have the discussion here be interesting for participants and lurkers and not devolve into a hive of scum and villainy.

60. jclarkfischer - May 17, 2013

To Bob and all the rest,
Great, great job. I speak as one who wrote a letter to the network in 1966 when NBC was going to cancel trek after the first season and hear I am decades later all geeked out for the first showing of Into Darkness. Hope it is not four years for the next one.
From reading this site for many years I am amazed a the negative attitudes of the nitpickers. All Treks have had some issues designed to further the plot at the expense of pure scientific accuracy. The most glaring was in TWOK, when the crew of a federal science vessel, with a Vulcan on on the bridge at that, did not even notice that the Ceti Alpha system was missing a planet. And, of course, space combat would not look as it is portrayed in any movie, but would be more like the Honor Harrington series, i.e. from hundreds of thousands of kilometers away at incredible speeds, none of which would translate well tot he screen.
I am fascinated by potential ideas for the next film, and what TOS ideas could be sed. I, for one, would love to see the Guardian of Forever again, though I understand why another time travel piece might be a bit much. Now a “Star Trek Mirror Mirror” film could be fantastic.

61. Disinvited - May 17, 2013

MJ,

FWIW in slogging through 20 past threads, so far, most posters like, Ahmed, say I’m in your Khan camp for backing up the soundness of your evidence, I find we really banged heads on an honorary Oscar for Shatner which had nothing to do with STID.

Still a long row to hoe.

62. AyanEva - May 17, 2013

Just got back from watching the film in the dome! Taking my dad to see it tomorrow (his first time watching, my third time). Movie holds up well on second viewing and I still love it! The death scene didn’t seem as awkward the second time and the pacing felt slower. Very solid movie! I missed the 3D experience though- the dome can’t show 3D. The 3D IMAX format really adds a lot to the film. I’ll see it in regular 3D tomorrow so we’ll see how that looks.

I really love watching these characters in the more contained and intimate story that this film provides. Benedict is really fantastic. It just bears repeating. He pulls out all the stops dramatically.

63. Jake - May 17, 2013

@boborci

I LOVED the movie – as did the non-trek fans I went with. Great job, especially with some of the quick, witty dialogue between characters (e.g. Pike and Spock discussing his report on Nibiru early in the film) and the many references to the ‘Treks’ that have come before. Even the little things like the ships on the desk really made this feel so much more like the Star Trek I grew up with. The only thing that took me out of it a bit was Spock’s KAHN yell but i can understand why that was hard to resist (and I might be in the minority because the rest of the theater went nuts).

Thanks for taking the time to interact with us on this site, it’s really appreciated.

64. Robofuzz - May 17, 2013

I surprised myself and really enjoyed the movie. Even Kirk’s death scene. What made Spock’s death so poignant in TWOK was the shared history of the characters and how much they truly meant to each other. I teared up at Kirk’s death even though I knew it was coming because I had read the spoilers. That surprised me because I just don’t tear up at movies. Well done.

65. JKP - May 17, 2013

Saw this afternoon with my 7 and 10 yo. Good flick. Lots of action. Didn’t really have as much Star Trek feel as I’d hoped, but I’ll take it.

Disappointed that Khan was the villain. I really wish they’d do something new. Carol Marcus was a pleasant surprise. Like last time, could use a lot more McCoy. Still find this Scotty hard to take. Need to see it again a couple times to really form more opinion. :)

66. Michael Ormes - May 17, 2013

STAR TREK and STAR WARS are from two different galaxies so who says that the two would never encounter each other?
STAR TREK is about deep space exploration after all.

Hey Mr Orci are we going to get to see the war with the Klingons in the next movie?
They are after all the main antagonists throughout the original STAR TREK.
WHAT ABOUT VGER????????
Could the voyager 6 have encountered the very race that becomes the BORG?
Please take STAR TREK farther and deeper into space than any other shows have.
Take the ENTERPRISE outside our galaxy and into another and make even more new races.
Who knows what the ENTERPRISE might run into in another galaxy?

In a galaxy far far away………. Just a thought…..or two.

67. Hugh Hoyland - May 17, 2013

All I will say is VERY well done to the Bob and the rest of the SC! I enjoyed every second of this movie, in fact more than Trek 09 and I love that movie.

And there is a message in STID (several actually) that one can pick up if they look for it. And it is very much something we deal with every day in the world.

Also, I disagree with those that say this is just a popcorn summer flick. Its a lot deeper than that IMO.

68. David Oakes - May 17, 2013

64. Robofuzz – May 17, 2013

haha I tear up at everything these days .__.

I think I may be a bit bi-polar.

69. David Oakes - May 17, 2013

I think the difference between Star Trek Into Darkness

And Star Wars Episode 7 will be

Into Darkness was shot first.

;D

70. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 17, 2013

Disinvited,

OK, thanks! Sorry if I forgot that.

71. Josh B - May 17, 2013

Saw the movie twice on Thursday Bob. Thank you for keeping Trek alive and bringing the franchise to countless new fans.

Where can I send a photograph for a autograph?

72. Commodore Adams - May 17, 2013

lmao, you negative Nancy’s voting Cumberbatch’s Khan as a disappointing villain, that you’ll never see the film, and that it’s the worst Star Trek film. All I can do is laugh at you. Are you this bitter with other aspects of your life as well? “Back in my day we never had a flashy action Star Trek”….wait wait wait, we are not back in your day, we are in the here and now and only you can deny yourself the pleasure of this movie. Its not Bob, Alex, Damon, or JJ’s fault, its your own. If we are lucky enough to get a new Star Trek TV series back in the original universe, then think of this trilogy as a fun departure from the status quo, a vacation if you will. Its not set in stone that the future of Star Trek will be in this universe. But I do understand your concern over the lack of intelligence and morality traded for fast pace action. To which I will say……

…..boborci, Damon L mentioned that this is small taste of the Klingons, I am still looking forward to a large fleet battle akin to the DS9 episode ‘Sacrifice of Angels’ to really show the power behind starfleet that while they are mainly a scientific and explorative organization, they can still kick some ass on a grand scale. There must be a way to mix the intelligence and morality of past trek with some a sprinkle of epic battles for the very survival of the federation against the Klingon empire, and a dash of boldly going space exploration for Star Trek XIII….I know i’m not asking for much lol. STID was fantastic in more ways than I can describe, but with regards the ships…yet again…we have a one on one submarine battle with the Enterprise and Vengeance. I think 6 movies had the traditional one on one battles. The First Contact battle scene was epic, to see so many federation vessels defending Earth against the Borg. The only problem, it lasted all of 60 seconds. I know as a writer you must appease the fans, the average movie goer, the Paramount executives, its demanding. What I do know is that you will pull off a masterpiece for the next movie, not to say that the 2009 and STID were not so. Both fantastic movies that had me salivating pavlov style.

73. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 17, 2013

For some folks who may think I got luck with the Khan prediction, and that their was no deductions involved, I want to remind folks of the following exchange I had with Bob Orci on December 3, 2011, which I maintain (even though Bob may still not want to admit it?) was a clue for us that Khan was the villain:

“259. boborci – December 3, 2011
Im so ashamed.”

“260. MJ – December 3, 2011
@259. That JJ lied about Khan?”

“261. boborci – December 3, 2011
But i am touched by some if ya’lls concern for my cOnfidence!”

“262. MJ – December 3, 2011
“cOnfidence” I knew it. this is basically saying KHANfidence — that is why you had the “O” capitalized. Thanks for the clue, Bob. It will be interesting to see how JJ backpeddels on his fib”

74. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 17, 2013

…and BTW, in these posts from Dec 2011, I also was on top of JJ lying about Del Toro not being cast for the Khan part.

75. Moe - May 17, 2013

Awesome movie. Blew us away. Full of surprises and an emotional rollercoaster. During that one scene you could have heard a pin drop in the theater. Great score.

76. Stel Pavlou - May 17, 2013

Really, really great movie. I loved it! My only criticism, and it’s tiny, is that I wish there had been a small scene, maybe a minute long, and no dialogue really needed, of Kirk et al viewing what Kahn and his people had done in the past and letting the audience see it so we could feel it, rather than be told about Kahn’s history.

Oh, and I LOVED the reversal of Kirk and Spock death scene.

77. Pg - May 17, 2013

This is my second time seeing this in the same day in now a packed theater
in Syracuse, NY..

Must mean I love it!!!!

78. Cap'n Calhoun - May 17, 2013

@boborci

Not quite a movie question, but in Countdown to Darkness was April’s Enterprise intended to be the same model as the “prime” 1701, or was it the same as the ship seen in the new films (design-wise)? Just curious, since you never see it well enough to really say.

79. opcode - May 17, 2013

Boborci,

First of all, really enjoyed the movie. Have seen it twice already, and still plan to go see again a couple more times. Love how the characters are played and love the cast.
That said, you guys need to make the new movies a bit more “scientifically” accurate. Come on, even Star Wars seems to be more consistent and make more sense than nu Trek. You get the Millennium Falcon interior and it matches the exterior nicely in shape and size. There is design uniformity to the ship’s interior, you don’t go from super futuristic bridge to present day brewery with fluorescent lights hanging from the ceiling. And it takes a while to get from Tatooine to Anderaan using the hyperdrive, like at least a few hours, enough to get some Jedi training.

In Nu Trek, going from point A to point B always takes just a couple of minutes using unspecified warp. You can see Qo’nos with your naked eyes from the neutral zone. Come on, that means the neutral zone is within the Klingon solar system.
Not to mention the Enterprise interiors, which don’t make any sense at all. Portable transwarp transporter? Seriously? So why does Starfleet still need star ships?

I mean, I seriously don’t care about canon, I don’t care if Khan now has blue eyes, but for god sake, you need to at least make the movie works by its own inner logic…

Again, enjoyed the movie, but these details really bother me just like they would in any other movie, not just ST.

80. An Old Codger - May 17, 2013

Bob Orci. No question, but I am going to repeat something I said near the end of the previous thread. I owe you an apology.

I am 66, female, married and a fan of Star Trek from the beginning. I loved the 09 movie and saw it 8 times in theater.

As to STID: I read the reviews and the spoilers. I knew the plot going into the theater and I was very sure I was not going to like this movie, but I would see it once out of loyalty to the franchise. While there were places I wish the pace were a bit less frenetic, overall I enjoyed the movie!! I intend to see it again on Monday and maybe Wednesday.

I guess I do have a question: When Scotty says he has been off the ship ONE DAY, was that an exaggeration? I hope so, because an awful lot happened and a lot of space was traveled in that one day.

Marie

81. corellianvette - May 17, 2013

@boborici

Loved it, truly. Took my team for a morale event today and it was a huge hit.

I think the writing of the movie is much smarter than people give it credit for – in fact I think you guys are one of the few working teams that have a pretty good sense of what the audience is thinking at any given point in the film. And it’s clear you have “moments” you want to hit that get setup earlier in the movie.

One instance that calls out to me – was the point where Kirk says to Scotty something to the effect of “I think we’re helping *him*” – it’s a throw-away line, but it came at just the right point when I was thinking “how can they not think this is going bad”. And it reminds you how smart the character of Kirk is.

With that, as an audience member and someone who loves these characters – I think there is only one note you hit sour – and that was when Spock asked Spoke Prime “How?”

It would have been completely logical (pun intended) for Spock to ask assistance. Admittedly a bit of a cheat, but given the dire situation I don’t blame the choice the character made.

And Spock Prime’s answer was great “I can’t tell you too much, but I can tell you he was bad” (in summary) was PERFECT.

But when Spock asked “how” – AARGH! See the problem is, Spocks solution was AWESOME – almost as awesome as Kirk’s shield disabling in TWOK. But Spock had the answer presented to him in the context of the film – he knew Khan’s weakness was loyalty to his crew – so by asking Spock Prime “how” then ending that scene – you’re never sure how much information he got. And then it sort of diminishes the awesomeness of the next move. The only information Spock needed at that moment, which he couldn’t risk – was to understand if Khan was really bad or just misunderstood.

Anyway – it was a minor point, and it’s certainly something that didn’t ruin the movie. I’m more pointing it out because, as the writer and someone who (as I stated) has a great pulse on the audience, I thought I would point out why that beat didn’t work.

Congrats on a great film – looking forward to the next one already.

And don’t forget – that probe is still on its way looking for whales!

82. Ken - May 17, 2013

The Cumberbatch casting issue is a very valid criticism and complaint.

Why?

From a strictly storyline point of view, Kahn’s antics on old Earth predate the change to the timeline, so his appearance should be the same.

From a filmmaking standpoint, I don’t advocate needing to cast an exact Montalban look alike, but there should have been some attempt to allow us to suspend our disbelief. For example, Pine looks passingly enough as Shatner’s Kirk that we can suspend disbelief and enjoy. Same with Quinto. But, Cumberbatch?

if it is Just about the acting, then why not cast Meryl Streep as Kahn? Or how about Daniel Day Lewis? Or how about Samuel Jackson? Or how about Christoph Walz? If you’re chuckling as I write that, then my point is made….they are nothing like Kahn. Same with Cumberbatch. IF they were intent on using him, there should have been some storyline point about why he looks so different. If you weren’t chuckling, then I still stand by my point.

I’m not a film maker, but this is Lazy film making and sloppy. I love JJ and I love his team. Looking at any of their previous work, anyone can tell they are definitely NOT lazy. They are good. I had A LOT of problems with the first Trek reboot, but this Cumberbatch casting is an apocalyptically bad decision on their part, which is either due to laziness (which doesn’t make sense, considering all of their track records) or a lack of caring about the source material.

If not JJ, then Lindelhoff should have been better than this.

Honoring the past doesn’t happen by simply throwing in a few Easter eggs.

I was completely open to this alternate time line idea, but now I’m hoping someone makes a movie where Nimoy resets things back to normal and we move forward with a new crew in the Prime timeline.

That’s not going to happen obviously.

83. BringBackKirkPrime - May 17, 2013

OK, I loved the movie, even more than the first. I did have a question for my fellow Trekkers about Kirk’s behavior that bothered me a bit. It really seemed out of character for him when he was beating on Khan as he was restrained. I could envision Kirk, removing the restraints, then going to town on him, and figuring a way to defeat him as he did in the original series (iwith their fight in Engineering). But to have Kirk beating a defenseless prisoner… there was no honor in that, as any Klingon would say. Also, Kirk at that point seemed pathetically weak, out of breath even as he was beating on Khan. It was really pathetic. I don’t ever remember anything remotely like this with Kirk’s character. Does anyone agree?

84. telcabs - May 17, 2013

@boborci what happened to all the great Khan/Harrison lines heard in the trailers such as “You think your world is safe, it is an illusion” and “I have returned to have…my…vengeance!” ? I for one was really looking forward to seeing these scenes in the film.

Is it likely these will appear in a director’s cut or as deleted scenes?

P.S that aside, I loved the film

85. Bart - May 17, 2013

boborci, you guys NAILED it!! Yes, there was tons of action, but there were so many great character moments in there. A 43 years old now, I’ve been loving every incarnation of Trek since age 3 and there’s no doubt in my mind that as #28 just said, these characters and the Enterprise (you had me worried there for a minute) are in great great hands.

I loved the moments where you can see the Kirk-Spock-McCoy bond building; love the evolution of Spock/Uhura. You’ve breathed new life into these characters and you’ve still got the freedom to do anything you want.

And I’m still blown away by the actors. I just never thought it would be possible for new actors to capture these characters so perfectly without being caricatures. Perfect, every one of them.

I just want more now and I want it fast. Can’t wait for the next one and I really wish Paramount would unleash Pocket Books now and let them write novels in this universe. Because I want to be immersed in new adventures of these characters and watch their relationships build. That’s the only thing frustrating about Star Trek on the big screen; there’s simply not enough of it.

Thank you, everyone involved!!!

86. Erde_Kaiser - May 17, 2013

Saw it with friends last night and had a blast. I thought ST 2009 was a decent action romp, but it was missing the moral center and the kind of political allegory and social commentary that sets Trek apart from most sf franchises, and I went into STID expecting more of the same. I came away pleasantly surprised – not only was STID a good action flick, but it also /had something to say/. That was immensely satisfying.

There were a lot of terrific performances, too – the returning cast members really inhabited their roles this time around (Simon Pegg’s Scotty being a particular standout), I loved Cumberbatch’s Khan (is it just me, or does that man sound eerily like Patrick Stewart?), and Peter Weller’s one of those actors that makes any movie better by his presence. Alice Eve was stunning, though I can’t help but hope she’s given more to do in the next movie. (Gratuitous changing sequence was gratuitous, but I can’t say I minded. And it /did/ give Kirk a chance to be Kirk.)

I’ll admit I’m a little surprised at people nitpicking the bit about the emergency meeting taking place in such a vulnerable location. Yes, it wasn’t the brightest thing ever, but it really underscored the fact that after centuries of peace, these people lacked a militaristic mindset. Even in the face of a terrorist threat, they failed to take what we’d consider basic security precautions nowadays because they had long since gotten out of the habit of thinking that way. For me, that really sold the idea that Adm. Marcus /needed/ someone like Khan to help him achieve his goals.

I know it’s too late to put the “transwarp beaming” genie back in the bottle now, but it really does need to be addressed. If the technology’s /that/ safe and easy to use, you can potentially beam anyone anywhere at any time. Not only is it an easily-abused plot device, but it would potentially render the Federation unrecognizable. (The role of starships in exploration and commerce would be severely reduced, and it would radically change how wars were fought, for starters.) Considering how many transporter accidents there were in TOS, just beaming stuff from surface to orbit and back, I imagine beaming someone across interstellar distances must be incredibly dangerous. That might be something to play up as the franchise moves forward. If transwarp beaming is a crapshoot, where you have a high chance of either not arriving at your destination at all, or arriving dead or horribly mangled, then it becomes a weapon of last resort instead of a get out of jail free card.

@boborci: Finally, one quick nitpick: I know Star Trek’s /never/ been a hard sf franchise, but I appreciate it when writers try to work real science into their scripts when they can, instead of just making things up. There’s plenty of cool stuff that actually exists that can be mined for devices, storylines, etc. Can we get a little more of that going forward, please? The “cold fusion” bomb in particular sat badly with me – a real cold fusion device wouldn’t freeze lava! Why not call it an “endothermic weapon” or “endothermic bomb”? That /sounds/ science fiction-y and cool, even for people who don’t know what it means, and it’s an added bonus for those who do (or who bother to look it up). I know it’s a little thing, but a lot of times it’s those little things that help create a sense of verisimilitude.

87. Doug_Skywalker - May 17, 2013

As a lifelong Trekker, I thoroughly enjoyed ST09 and watching STID I kept wanting more!

I’m not here to knock anyone’s perceptions, opinions, or comments on the film, but lots of the negative reactions I found to be almost folly. I loved the homages to TOS films, especially TWOK. I believe there was a post by one named ‘Karen’ that nailed the death scene of Kirk, reversed from Spock’s TWOK. We were treated to a catalyst to a friendship forming, rather than a death coming after decades of friendship. I noticed LOTS of character development, and for me it was in the subtleties, rather than the outright displays. There was lots of that in the series and films before, and seeing it again reminded me just how much devotion went in to making this film about Trek as authentic and fun as possible. The writing was lots more clever at times, and I could tell the actors were way more comfortable in their roles and the portrayals of such showed.

All in all, I was totally thrilled with STID, and I am totally going back for more! My only gripes about the entire film were that poor Chekov had very little to do and was confined to engineering with only a few generic lines of dialog, not enough explanation of Khan, his background, and what happens after he’s placed in stasis, the inclusion of Spock Prime felt contrived just let Mr. Nimoy retire in peace, Carol Marcus did feel like more of a plot device than a character, but I’m sure there’s more room for growth in another film.

4..5 / 5 stars for Star Trek Into Darkness

88. vulken - May 17, 2013

@boborci: I truly believe that the writers of a Star Trek movie have their own no-win-scenario, which will always be a challenge as long as this franchise exists. If they make it too much like TOS, they alienate people who aren’t die-hard fans. If they toss all TOS canon out the window and start over, they alienate their fan-base, which is also damaging to a beloved franchise (and potential box office). You definitely need to please both sides of the table as much as you can, within reason, yet knowing that no matter what you do, who you listen to, or what you decide…you’re still not going to please everyone.

A true creative Kobayoshi Maru.

I am one of the people who loved the 2009 movie. LOVED IT. I thought it was the perfect way to bring the old characters and fans back into the Star Trek world, while still opening up the Trek universe to new storylines, bigger scope, and engage a new generation of people who weren’t fans of the, now dated, TOS or the series/movies that followed.

The 2009 film, I felt, did that brilliantly. There was something for everyone, while opening up a new reality….anything can happen now. Different choices can bring different results. Die-hard fans get to see a new set of life-options for their characters, without knowing exactly what will happen from the beginning of each movie. The TOS characters already had a history that we didn’t see before they started working together. We get to see that develop from the beginning now. That’s pretty cool and, again, new information and character depth/development that just adds new emotional levels to the overall experience.

The 2009 movie cast actors that looked and sounded, realistically enough, like the TOS characters I grew up with, yet added their own unique emotional layers to them. There were also several subtle references to TOS lore and canon, but they didn’t take away from the new Trek universe unfolding as I was watching.

At the end of the 2009 movie, the audience cheered loudly and I left the theater energized and excited for what I had just experienced and was looking forward to seeing the movie again and, in time, seeing the next one.

After watching “Star Trek Into Darkness” last night with five friends, some fans of TOS and others who were just vaguely familiar with the originals (series and films) and the 2009 film…the reaction was, understandably, different and, very likely, a good sample of what a general consensus will be for this (or any) movie audience.

“It was great!”

“It’s was okay, not bad.”

“I didn’t feel the same I-can’t-wait-to-see-it-again like I did after seeing the last one.”

“This one was like a good episode of the series, but not a great episode”

And, the response that I felt matched mine the most…

“It was good, kind of predictable, but the first movie was much better. I hope that the next movies don’t just keep remaking old episodes with characters/situations that I already know.”

That’s pretty much how I felt too.

I think “Into Darkness” is a really good movie, certainly a fun/summer action film that fans and non-fans alike can enjoy. Honestly, I think non-fans will enjoy it MUCH more than anyone because they don’t have TOS lines/scenes/details burned into their brain like some of us do. Old age should eventually take care of those pesky memories soon enough for some of us and it’ll all be new to us once again.

Unlike the subtle TOS references in the 2009 film, “Into Darkness” felt like it was trying too hard to make TOS fans relate/happy. The TOS references weren’t nearly as subtle this time around, they actually stood out to the point where it distracted from the “reality” of the new situation/universe.

I was praying for months that Kahn wasn’t the villain, yet had a feeling he was and, when that was confirmed, I still was willing/open to see what they did with it. However, the almost literal scene-copying/character-flipping from TWOK (Kirk “death” and Spock screaming “Kahhhhn”), jolted me out of the new story and, try as I did, I couldn’t ease back in.

In my opinion, that just didn’t work for the new story/characters in the same way that it did for TWOK and, ultimately, just felt very forced and out of place when it occurred.

When Spock dies in front of Kirk in TWOK, we are seeing the end of a very long friendship and a major sacrifice that we, as fans, can relate to and feel. We have seen them go through so much together over the years/decades and watched them grow closer through those experiences. So, when TWOK Spock dies…the audience really is watching a familiar old friend/character die and feeling that loss along with the crew.

However, the new Trek crew haven’t known each other long enough to have those deep connections yet and, honestly, I don’t think anyone believed for a second that Paramount would kill off the Kirk character so early in a new movie franchise. So, knowing that, there really wasn’t a chance that he wouldn’t be coming back from the dead.

And, what bothered me more than anything in the film, was Spock screaming “Kahhhn!”

Regardless of his new unstable emotional state (which I also like), it seemed so blatantly out of character that it just felt…awkward/uncomfortable. Like something out of a Wayans Brother’s film parody.

Over the years, almost everyone (fan and non-fan) has likely seen some kind of Shatner recreation of his melodramatic yelling of “Kahn” from TWOK. It’s become a pop culture punchline now when its out of the original context. So, seeing/hearing it again felt a bit embarrassing (at least when it occurred and I heard some people laughing) and not at all something Spock would do in the same situation, no matter how emotionally compromised he still appears to be at this stage.

It would have made more sense to have him be enraged and, if he HAD to say it, just quietly/deliberately/more subtly say the name Kahn and head off to get him. It’s more emotionally realistic for his character…especially over someone he’s only known for a few years.

Honestly, it would have made more sense for him to react that dramatically during/after the death of his mother in the 2009 film. He had a very strong emotional connection to her at that point and watched her die in front of him. Thankfully he didn’t, because those quietly sad scenes of him dealing with the loss of his mother were some of the most touching parts of the 2009 film. He does not have that kind of close emotional connection, yet, with the new Kirk.

It’s like characters in movies constantly dropping to their knees during a death and looking up into the sky yelling “Nooooooo!”

It’s overused and unrealistic after you see it once or twice.

The TWOK flip-character scenes and plot points were really the main thing that kept this movie from being a great movie, to me. I still enjoyed it (especially the first half) and am telling folks to go see it, because it’s a really good/fun movie.

I very much appreciate the fact that new Star Trek movies are being made at all and am very pleasantly surprised and grateful that Bob and his team even take the time to visit/read/interact with us here when they do. That is a very rare thing indeed and something everyone should very much appreciate.

It’s not easy to put so much work into writing something to please such a vast audience of people, only to later come into a “virtual room” full of strangers after it’s released and then spend time reading about everything you did wrong. Most producers/writers would simply ignore it all, collect their paycheck, and move on to the next project and not think about it again. Big props to you, Team Orci, for taking the time/interest in visiting when you are able and having the patience, maturity, and understanding to still return and participate with us crazy kids.

I really look forward to the continuation of your new timeline in the upcoming sequels and hope that the next movie focuses less on old/familiar TOS villains/storylines and more on new/fresh stories and situations that keep us guessing to the very end, with just a few subtle references sprinkled here and there to make fans, like me, silently “squeee” as each new adventures unfolds along the way.

Bob, I hope that you and future Star Trek writing/producing teams will continue to trust the universe and characters that you’ve created, because they are great, and encourage you to not be afraid to simply embrace that fully and run with it.

As the “new” TOS characters start off on their first five year mission, it’s definitely time for us to boldly go where we haven’t previously gone before.

I, for one, can’t wait!

89. Cap'n Calhoun - May 17, 2013

@83. BringBackKirkPrime

I’d venture it was because Khan killed Pike, who was pretty much Kirk’s father figure.

90. SpaceBri - May 17, 2013

@boborci

I have to ask about the history of the NASA rocket model on Admiral Marcus’ desk. Look like it’s either the currently planned SLS (Space Launch System) or the Ares V (cancelled NASA launcher).

If you could provide any insight, it would be great… I saw the movie opening night in DC with 17 other folks who work in the space program, including one Astronaut, and we were all excited to see something from our time!

Brian (@spacebri)

91. opcode - May 17, 2013

If I was going to guess ST 2016, I would say that I think we are going to see the Federation going into war with the Klingons, and Khan and his men leading the Federation defense forces.

I was at least half right when I guessed that ST 2013 would be about Khan and 2016 about the Klingons, simply because of the scope, so let’s see if I can predict the next one correctly. Hope boborci doesn’t change the story just because I said it here. ;)

92. Bart - May 17, 2013

@boborci, I echo #50′s sentiments. I think there was one or two scenes in this movie where you could see the Kirk-Spock-McCoy troika forming, but please make sure you guys keep that in the front of the brain when writing the next one.

93. Disinvited - May 17, 2013

MJ,

I did pose this question to you which you never answered:

“Film is a collaborative form of art. Sometimes, the artist attacks the marble with one idea for a statue but by the time you are half way through the marble tells you what kind of statue it’s going to be.

So if the video release extra shows Khan was never intended to be in the film but when they got to editing they felt it screamed for a Khan reveal and put one in, who has to eat their hat?” – 117. Disinvited – February 11, 2013 http://trekmovie.com/2013/02/10/eve-denies-star-trek-villain-rumor-pegg-hopes-jj-abrams-remembers-trekkies-more-from-baftas/

“We did, however, consider and conceive of the story without K in mind.” – #67. boborci – May 15, 2013 in this previously closed thread

94. William Bradley - May 17, 2013

Sigh. The Gary Seven transwarp tech is loose in the early days of the Federation.

John Harrison is such a potentially great villain (aside from the, er, Khan thing) that it ‘s a shame we didn’t get to see a lot more of him doing his thing. Like getting off the headquarters planet of the Federation, despite all the security, and getting onto the homeworld of the Klingon Empire, despite all the security.

That way we could really see his superiority, and his character, in dramatic and multi-faceted action.

I’m glad BC’s character is still alive, because he can make an excellent return down the line. I just wish he wasn’t supposed to be Khan Noonien Singh, former ruler of the world from Asia through the Middle East, and not a figure to be changed with some plastic surgery.

This is exactly what they tried with Die Another Day, and even though they had the big advanced tech explanation for why the big Bond super-villain went from Asian to uber-Englishman, it never played. Because the actor, like Cumberbatch, is so quintessentially a Brit.

That said, fingers crossed for the returns.

I’ve seen the movie twice, and when I wasn’t grinding my teeth, I was having a great time with a terrific cast and a lot of wonderful stuff on the screen.

95. Aurore - May 17, 2013

@ The management ( for ” your eyes “only…. OF COURSE ):

1306. Anthony Pascale – May 17, 2013
“I am going to start a new open thread soon for the weekend.

I also want to ask people to try to avoid spamming. You don’t need to post your same/similar thoughts 20 times in a row to get your point across. Comment quantity does not make you seem smarter.”

_______

And yet, there is one fellow poster you let gloat about his so-called predictions…over and over again .

…While on the now closed thread earlier , I was not allowed to post the comment Mr. Orci made once :

1280.boborci – december 9, 2012

“I just want to say, now, as we get closer and closer to all being revealed that no one should feel bad for guessing wrong. Seriously. And don’t let anyone make you feel bad for it either. So many good theories. and so many are viable story lines that would be great:)”

http://trekmovie.com/2012/12/06/star-trek-into-darkness-announcement-trailer-shot-by-shot-analysis/

1309. Anthony Pascale – May 17, 2013
“Another point on comments. with such a high volume of comments some have been flagged for auto-deletion. Do not take it personally…”

:)

O.K.

96. lindak - May 17, 2013

Spock vs Khan was my favorite scene! I will most certainly be going back to see it again.

I thought Zachary Quinto and Chris Pine’s performances were spot on!

97. jesustrek - May 17, 2013

Oooorrrcccccccciii Que paciencia tienes jejeje ;)

Admiral’s desktop marcus gave us a clue where this altered timeline ?congratulations great scene

And thanks for Spock Prime ;)

98. Lemingsworth Bint - May 17, 2013

“Do something fresh” has become nerdcode for “Don’t change any canon!”

You’re not fooling anyone.

What was the point of rebooting if no change is permitted?

99. NCC-73515 - May 17, 2013

Sooo looking forward to the Hot Wheels Vengeance model!

100. BatlethInTheGroin - May 17, 2013

To those who voted that they’d see it 5+ times in theaters… don’t you have TVs? Why waste $50 to see a movie in theaters when you could buy it for less than half that and actually own the thing?

101. Bart - May 17, 2013

George and Winona Kirk had a credit at the end.

Were their voices among the voices Kirk was hearing or is there a deleted flashback scene somewhere in there?

Also, on the approach to Kronos, that wasn’t a partially exploded Praxis hovering above the planet, was it?

102. Erde_Kaiser - May 17, 2013

@BatlethInTheGroin – Do you have an IMAX setup in your living room?

103. Lostrod - May 17, 2013

#24: honor I:

“Interesting part about K going nuts is that Kirk betrayed him first by ordering Scotty to stun him…”

Even more interesting … Kirk’s betrayal triggered Khan’s subsequent actions – making Kirk responsible for the resulting carnage. Thousands of deaths in San Francisco.

I suppose this is similar to Prime Kirk’s abandonment of Khan on Ceti Alpha Five triggered Khan’s wrath in WOK – making Kirk responsible for the subsequent deaths there. Something to ponder.

Also, haven’t had time to catch up on preceding posts but did you guys at one time write. Scene to explain Khan’s “Britishness”?

Regards.

104. HubcapDave - May 17, 2013

@83

Not so much for this Kirk. First, he’s still a little bit of a puck. Second, he pissed about Pike dying.

105. William Bradley - May 17, 2013

I saw the ’09 film five times in the theater.

Then I bought it.

It’s very hard to substitute anything for the theatrical experience, especially in IMAX.

3-D, I’m kinda over.

>100. BatlethInTheGroin – May 17, 2013
To those who voted that they’d see it 5+ times in theaters… don’t you have TVs? Why waste $50 to see a movie in theaters when you could buy it for less than half that and actually own the thing?

106. The Keeper - May 17, 2013

@boborci

Your movie was OK, not great, not bad, just OK.
All the actors fit their characters perfectly.
One could not ask for a better cast.

But why, please answer me why of all the things you could have done, why on earth did you feel the need to use the Khan character at all?
And then blatantly steal passages and words used from TWOK in some sort of role reversal twist, which honestly just didn’t work and wasn’t’ needed.

I mean you guys had freed yourselves up by creating an entire new time line where you could invent new happenings and take us all to places unseen before, but instead you felt the need to re-invent Khan for a new generation???

THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

Honestly if I were on your writing team and this was the best you can come up with, I would have thrown your butts out the 10th floor window myself and hired a new team with better vision.

Don’t let this happen again if your hired to write the 3rd installment.

107. Indarys - May 17, 2013

I really enjoyed the movie, there were far less annoying plot holes like 09 had.

The only one I noticed was that it takes the enterprise 5 minutes to “fall” the distance from the moon to Earth but its very minor.

I was very upset by the way Pike’s death was handled though. He was a great character and did not deserve to go out that way.

The Spock “khaaaaaan” was a bit too much too.

I really liked the way nimbus was handled. I was concerned at first the movie would just treat the Prime Directive as a joke but it went out of its way after to show the fallout from that. Great work.

I do think the end could have at least mentioned that half of SF was destroyed? That seems like a bit of a bigger deal than the movie ended up alluding to.

All in all I enjoyed 09 (though rewatches have soured me a bit on it!) and this was far superior still. Great! I hope the next is more focused on exploration and less on the enterprise getting wrecked by a ship it can’t possibly defeat though.

108. Lostrod - May 17, 2013

Regarding my post #103 – I have no idea how my $&@/?! iPad converted “boborci” into “honor l” … :)

Regards.

109. steve - May 17, 2013

i`ve been a fan forever, but something i keep reading over and over is comparisons to how it was before.
everyone has to remember , these films arent made just for the fans like the old ones were.
there not making it for u…………
so things like this actor not looking like khan……..doesnt matter, the target audience most likely wont know who the other khan looked like.

110. TrinaInUS - May 17, 2013

I’m still processing this film, internally. Am I just getting old? My main issue was that (to me) it was so much, so fast. Don’t get me wrong, it was great and I enjoyed the hell out of it. And I love movies with enough layers to hold up to repeated viewing. It’s just that I feel that, having seen it once, I’ve only barely scratched the surface. I don’t typically come away from movies feeling it as I did here. I have to wonder if STID pushed it a bit too far. It’s really bugging me that I walked out of the theater vaguely disappointed on that count.

The performances were all great, and many were better than I’d expected. Cumberbatch gave us a villain for the ages. I’ve enjoyed even the campy villains, but his Khan (I wish they hadn’t used the name, or hadn’t exposed until a later film) was terrifying. Magnificent.

I’m nitpick-y about a few issues – they’ve been mentioned by others.

I saw STID yesterday, on my own since my friends couldn’t go till Sunday and I didn’t want to wait. I’m going again, with them, and hope that on seconf viewing it’ll feel like it has a better flow. I have the feeling I”ll be pressing ‘pause’ a lot on my DVD when I first get it, though.

All in all, I’d rank this as better than a number of the other Trek films, and I’d be seeing it again on the big screen even if I didn’t feel it was necessary for my own comprehension. ;) I’ve been with Star Trek from the first (seeing TOS in its first season at about the age of seven), and yes, it’s still Star Trek. I know that it isn’t, for some, but for many of us it is. LLAP!

111. Erde_Kaiser - May 17, 2013

All these complaints about the homage to TWOK. *smh*

Personally, that was one of the things I loved about the movie. I thought it was interesting to see how differently history was unfolding thanks to the changes to the timeline in the first film (leading to the Botany Bay being intercepted earlier by someone else, and everything that followed after), yet see the parallels emerging, which I felt was a function of the characters involved and their personalities. The characters in TWOK and STID may not be at the same points in their lives, and some things may have gone down differently, but at the core, they’re fundamentally the same people. So you have these half-familiar bits of interaction and dialogue arising from that. I don’t feel like that was the product of laziness.

112. Steve - May 17, 2013

Just horrible like I predicted.

Magic blood. Really? They ripped off Star Trek 2. Pathetic.

It is time for Trek to get Nicholas Meyer back. PLEASE!!! So he can FIX this mess!

113. K-7 - May 17, 2013

“if it is Just about the acting, then why not cast Meryl Streep as Kahn? Or how about Daniel Day Lewis? Or how about Samuel Jackson? Or how about Christoph Walz? If you’re chuckling as I write that, then my point is made….they are nothing like Kahn. Same with Cumberbatch. IF they were intent on using him, there should have been some storyline point about why he looks so different. If you weren’t chuckling, then I still stand by my point.”

Well, no one certainly complained when they cast a hispanic (Zaldana) to play an African-American character, or a non-Jewish actor (Quinto) to play Spock, or a non-Polish actor to play Chekov. And Khan himself was supposedly from India, but was played by an Hispanic.

How about just first trying to select an well known actor who kind of fits the Montelbahn role, but if that casting does not work out, then go with the best actor who auditions for the Khan role instead?

WAIT, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID. LOL

Duh!!!

114. HubcapDave - May 17, 2013

@106

This is something that really irks me: representing one’s opinion as fact.

Keeper, I get that you think using Khan and recreating scenes from TWOK “didn’t work” and “wasn’t needed”. I respect that that’s how YOU feel. I’ve been a Trekkie for going on 37 years, and think TWOK is the pinnacle of Trek movies. And you know what? Khan as the villain worked for me (though I wouldn’t mind hearing the official reasoning for his racial change). The homages to TWOK, particularly the death scene, worked for me.

I think boborci & company did a good job. Not perfect, but good. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. But what I do expect is for people not to project how they feel as the gospel truth.

115. The Keeper - May 17, 2013

@112

I wouldn’t call it horrible…it was still light years ahead of Insurrection and Nemesis, yet just as ho hum as First Contact.

116. Ahmed - May 17, 2013

@88. vulken

Well said, I agree particularly with these two points:

“It was good, kind of predictable, but the first movie was much better. I hope that the next movies don’t just keep remaking old episodes with characters/situations that I already know.”

That is how I felt after watching the movie. That the 2009 was far better than this new one in many aspects, even if the 2009 movie has its own issues.

“And, what bothered me more than anything in the film, was Spock screaming “Kahhhn!”
Regardless of his new unstable emotional state (which I also like), it seemed so blatantly out of character that it just felt…awkward/uncomfortable. Like something out of a Wayans Brother’s film parody.”

This made me angry when I saw it. There was no need at all for that scene or for the whole bloody reactor scene. They should have come up with something new, not a rehash of a great movie.

117. K-7 - May 17, 2013

@106 “Honestly if I were on your writing team and this was the best you can come up with, I would have thrown your butts out the 10th floor window myself and hired a new team with better vision. Don’t let this happen again if your hired to write the 3rd installment.”

My goodness, the level of condescension and hubris with some of these haters is downright embarrassing for all of us here.

118. HubcapDave - May 17, 2013

@113 K-7

I agree. Javier Bardem and Benicio Del Toro were the first two actors they looked at for the Khan role, if I am not mistaken. Neither one took the role. I think from that point on they looked for the best available actor, and worry about how to fit the part to him.

Boborci, I’d be interested to know if that’s how this came about, if you at liberty to discuss.

119. jcjlrchat - May 17, 2013

My heartfelt thanks goes to Bob Orci and the rest of the writers for a great movie. Bob’s comments here have made for great reading. Also, thanks to Anthony Pascale for running this site……Take a bow, guys !!!

120. K-7 - May 17, 2013

People forget that WOK is 31 fracking years old. I love the fact that they have mad it relevant for today. Just like Trek 2009 made TOS even more iconic than is already was and got us all away from the depressing downfall of Trek in the latter half of the Berman era.

Khan is now iconic for the general public at large. Finally, we have a Trek villain that will resonate. And that is why, you can bet that he will be back again for a later film in this series.

121. Ahmed - May 17, 2013

@119. K-7

“Khan is now iconic for the general public at large. Finally, we have a Trek villain that will resonate.”

You gotta be kidding ? Khan was an iconic figure from the day TWOK was released. Check any Star Trek conventions videos, not just from the 80s & 90s but as recent as last year & you will see people still imitating Shanter famous scream.

Star Trek Into Darkness did not made Khan iconic in any way or form.

122. AyanEva - May 17, 2013

#100 (BatlethInTheGroin)- Because why not? It’s fun! Also, it’s my money so I can spend it however I choose.

Unless you own an amazing home theater system, watching the movie on a small TV (mine is tiny because I rarely watch TV- it’s not even plugged in at the moment) or computer screen (mine is a 17″ MacBook) pales in comparison to the theater experience. Also, the movie comes across differently depending on format so I also like to see it in multiple formats for the sake of comparison.

I only see like 1 movie a year in theaters (if that). I typically don’t bother unless it’s something important to me, like Harry Potter or Star Trek. Then I’ll go multiple times for my own enjoyment and to support the franchise financially. :)

123. Erde_Kaiser - May 17, 2013

@120. Ahmed

There are a lot of people out there today who didn’t grow up with classic Trek the way some of us old-timers did. For them, MontalKhan is “iconic” in the sense of being a meme, something that they’re familiar with through pop culture references more than anything. CumberKhan is a new Khan for a new generation of fans (and those of us still flexible enough to adapt to change :p), one whose story reflects contermporary issues and concerns.

That’s not a bad thing.

124. Backagain - May 17, 2013

Here’s a question–

Why did you guys feel the need to hide Khan to the point of lying?

Why did you bother using him? From a marketing standpoint, wouldn’t have made more sense to NOT hide him?

By hiding him, you lost the marketing of Khan.

So the fact that you marketed him as John Harrison meant you felt you didn’t need to use Khan. Ultimately, that reveal set the stage for several homages, most of which were really good, but many of them would only be picked up by long time die hard Trek fans. It’s great that you felt the need to do that. You should be doing that.

But ultimately, with a few changes, this movie would not have been much different if the villain really was a guy named John Harrison. In fact, it might have made more sense, since Khan may be superhuman, but he’s not alien, and that magic resurrection blood seemed to be out of place.

Khan isn’t really the Joker. He’s not a recurring villain. He’s not Moriarity or Lex Luthor. He’s a one time guest star that had a great sequel.

Since you didn’t want the benefit of marketing Khan, and I’m pretty sure you saw that the reaction to rumors of Khan were fairly negative, was Khan really necessary to this movie?

125. K-7 - May 17, 2013

Ahmed,

You did not read what I said:

“Khan is now iconic for THE GENERAL PUBLIC AT LARGE. Finally, we have a Trek villain that will resonate.”

I was not talking about Star Trek fans here. Most people in the general public today don’t know who Khan is. It’s not like Darth Vader or Apollo Creed, where most people in society have heard of them. This is a fact.

126. Jamor - May 17, 2013

boborci…

1. Why doesn’t Vengeance burn up in the atmosphere on its way down (as almost becomes the demise of Enterprise).

2. Discussing/solving issues/problems around a table is a basic element of Star Trek. Watched Space Seed last night. It included a scene in the conference room, and a dinner scene with discussion around a large table. TNG had four sets (conference room, ready room, ten forward, engineering) that were almost exclusively for these types of scenes. Besides the abruptly ended meeting at the beginning of STID, I don’t recall any scenes of that type in either of the new Star Trek films. Does the Enterprise have a conference room? Has there been an actual decision to eliminate this from Star Trek?

Thanks for braving the ire of the fans. I did not care for STID at all, but did enjoy ST09. Regardless, I respect the hell out of you for coming here to answer questions

127. Ahmed - May 17, 2013

@ 123. Erde_Kaiser – May 17, 2013

“CumberKhan is a new Khan for a new generation of fans (and those of us still flexible enough to adapt to change :p), one whose story reflects contermporary issues and concerns.
That’s not a bad thing.”

The problem is that I didn’t feel the Khan brought something unique to the story. We never got to know him closely, except for that scene in the ship brig. Other than that, it was just one action scene after another.

I was expecting more, given that Cumberbatch was playing the villain. I enjoyed most of Cumberbatch works, the guy is a great actor but in this movie, he wasn’t given good script to work with. That is my feeling anyway.

128. Erik Parrent - May 17, 2013

Mr. Orci: Loved the new movie. Please make more. And please don’t make me wait four years this time. Sooner is better as long as the quality doesn’t suffer.

129. Adam E - May 17, 2013

@Bob Orci

Great movie! I’m looking forward to seeing it again!

A while back you said that you lied to us about one thing. I though it could have been when you said Cumberbatch was playing a canon character. But now we know that was the truth! What was it you lied about?

130. Jonboc - May 17, 2013

Saw it last night in 3D IMAX and atmos sound. what a show! Enjoyed every minute of it. was hoping for a little more psychological manipulation by Khan, but I understand it’s hard to turn up the action with mind games…but the potential for suspense and tension would have been great.

Bob, did you guys ship Chapel off to another ship to free up the ongoing relationship between Spock and Uhura?

love the Gorn/game tie in.

Love mention of the Bradbury. The Daystrom reference was fun.

All the actors really knocked it out of the park. Going to miss Pike greatly.

The precedents set with transwarp beaming seem to be a very dangerous development and hinderance when it comes to story telling. I hope you guys haven’t painted yourself into the corner with this relatively “easy out”.

Didnt care for the plot point that counted on Klingons having honor. This popular trait was prevelant in TNG but in TOS, these slimy conquerors would stab you in the back for looking at them wrong…and not lose a wink of sleep. The Romulans, like Mark Lenard in Balance of Terror, had the honor, not the Klingons. How this got twisted around in TNG is beyond me.

Love the component design of the phasers.

Quinto’s mind-melds seem to be too far down on the chin….didn’t look quite right.

That’s all for now, it’s bedtime. But seeing it again tomorrow should stir up a few more comments and questions. Fantastic movie.

131. Chancellor Takvah - May 17, 2013

The fastest two hours in a long time. For those that hated it, sorry to hear it. I’ve been a Trek fan for a lot of years. The timeline was altered in the previous film… NOT OBLITERATED. I loved how they changed it up, the story being completely different but with familiar facets. Kirk saves the ship instead of Spock, and perishes. Fate is at work here. There were lessons that needed to be learned by these two characters that transcend timelines. Yeah Bob… I got it. I seriously, do not get why people cannot fathom this kind of a thing. Perhaps what is truly shallow here is the attention span and understanding of some of the audience rather than the writers. All in all, it was a fantastic ride. My wife cannot wait to go see it again and the audience that I saw it with could be heard outside the theater talking to one another about how much they enjoyed it. A great flick. No doubt.

132. The Keeper - May 17, 2013

@114

Dude, I’m sorry, I was only 5yrs old when TOS first aired in 1966…so maybe I don’t know much about this thing called Star Trek that I’ve been watching all my life.
I didn’t say anything “As fact”
I asked a question…and said “please” when asking.
You just didn’t like what I wrote after…too bad for you.

I totally dig the idea of rebooting Kirk and company for a new generation, updating the entire look and feel while preserving and respecting all that came before.
Some are ageist it, I am not.
I would have actually taken it further and completely skipped the entire nu Time line thing (which was only done just to make the fan boys even a little bit happy.)

I just feel strongly that there was no need to re-use Khan.
Not out of any fan driven notion that no one but Ricardo MontoKhan can play Khan…I just don’t see the point in going that direction at all, or at the very least so soon.
I heard and read about fans defending Nemesis on StarTrek.com using the homage to TWOK as an argument…it’s boloney, unwrapped laying out on a counter stinking.

My point is simple.
If you want to show yourselves as creative writers after creating a new time line, then DO IT.
Create something totally fresh and new with all the humor, action and incredible effects that can be conjured up.
This is what I (yes, me and most likely you and millions more) want to see done with Star Trek.

133. SoonerDave - May 17, 2013

I’m going to think up a more complete review later, but let me say this much now:

FREAKING STINKING AWESOME..

I absolutely unequivocally LOVED this movie. Absolutely fan-stinking-tastic.

134. Ahmed - May 17, 2013

@ 125. K-7

“I was not talking about Star Trek fans here. Most people in the general public today don’t know who Khan is. It’s not like Darth Vader or Apollo Creed, where most people in society have heard of them. This is a fact.”

I don’t think this is a fact. I’ve couple friends who don’t go to sci-fi movies in general but they are well aware of Khan, at least in general term.

Anyway, I guess we will have to agree to disagree :)

135. draderman - May 17, 2013

Why cant McCoy un-freeze them in the JJverse? he did it in the prime universe with no problem.

136. endeavour crew - May 17, 2013

Bob, I have a question for you but are you still around?

137. KMKProd - May 17, 2013

Saw it tonight with my 8 year old son. I really enjoyed it, but despite all its flash, action, and shininess, this just isn’t my Star Trek. But it did kick arse, so it will have to do until real Star Trek returns someday.

On the way home, my son pointed out something to me. He asked why Kahn didn’t just wake up his people and take over instead of putting them into the torpedoes. I think that’s a pretty valid question and a plot hole in my mind.

The movie was fun, but I kept noticing scaling inconsistencies with the ships. The Vengeance looked as big as Spacedock (Original) when it first appeared in front of the E, then it looked only moderately larger. Then when it was crashing through the harbor, it looked to be a fairly large, but not a few miles long in size, and then as it hit the city, it looked gargantuan. It kept bugging me the way the size seemed to change. Intentional or lazy production? I’m not sure.

The interior of the E: Strange arrangement and style. It seems too white and stark, too much like in Star Wars, and the large semi-circular/triangular common area where you can see above and below at other decks seemed out of place. Where would that even be? The saucer, the interconnecting dorsal? It just seemed like it wouldn’t fit in the ship properly and seemed out of place.

The design of the E (exterior) is starting to grow on me a little, except I still cannot accept the enormous upscale. Having been on board nuclear carriers in the Navy, I know hangar decks can be huge, and the TOS E was larger than a nuke carrier, so it is not unconceivable for the TOS E’s size to be sufficiently large to remain constant in this continuity. She’s not small by any stretch; nuke carriers are big.

The ship falling to Earth was weird. First of all, they are in lunar orbit, at station keeping, and then after they are attacked, they are suddenly falling to Earth? That’s over 240,000 miles (they were a little far from the moon, but not much) and would take several hours if not the typical three days (i.e. Apollo) to reach Earth, and Earth’s gravity would not have the effect on the ship that it appeared to have. Bad writing there. Also, the fall to Earth was long and protracted, and the crew and equipment falling about was way out of place. If gravity failed, they wouldn’t list and fall with the ship as if they were on the Poseidon Adventure, they would start floating and tumbling about. Up and down is irrelevant in space, the ship’s attitude would not affect the crew in that manner. So that was way off. Remember the ISS is 250 miles above and is “free-falling” around the planet in orbit, while the crew floats around. So the Enterprise would be sinking in its orbit while inching closer to Earth, not just falling in a straight line down.

Kirk’s sacrifice scene wasn’t as jarring as I thought, but Spock’s scream needed more bass in his voice, instead of the cracking higher-pitched yell we got; then it would’ve been more impactful.

It would’ve been awesome had the ending shown nuKahn in the cryotube, and instead of fade to black, keep panning and show a (obviously CG’d) TOS-Kahn in an adjacent cryotube, showing that Marcus had thawed out one of the other augments who promptly assumed their master’s identity.

Overall I liked it a lot, but nuTrek — while technically far superior with visuals and style — will never match the TOS — TNG, etc. in story and concept.

138. Steve G - May 17, 2013

I thought Coruscant looked amazing in this movie!
Just kidding. :)

Saw it in 2D last night, seeing it in IMAX 3D tomorrow night.
Is there a D-Box version?

LLAP

139. siphunclekaiju54 - May 17, 2013

I really enjoyed the movie, but for the next one, let’s get as far away from the “vengeful crazy guy” plot as we possibly can. The last three Trek movies have tried to recreate Kahn, with this one actually doing it (successfully and in an unexpected way). Now that we’ve gotten Kahn off our chests, let’s do something else! Let’s boldly go! :)

140. Jason - May 17, 2013

The movie was incredible; despite what the detractors might saw. Sure it had it’s flaws but it was still a good movie! I’ll be seeing it again soon!

141. whatyoudonotknowandmustnowbetold - May 17, 2013

This film is further proof that J.J. Abrams is a hack. Completely ripping off The Wrath of Khan. That said, the performance of the cast and the character interactions saved this film for me. I actually enjoyed it. And we are now finally poised to watch the crew ‘boldly to where no man has gone before.’ But next time, how about a little more McCoy?

142. Unwanted - May 17, 2013

@125. Who the heck is Apollo Creed?

143. HubcapDave - May 17, 2013

@141

Funny, I don’t recall seeing Kirk and Khan fighting a starship battle in a nebula…………

Or Kirk lamenting how old he feels………..

Or anything about Project Genesis……….

And tell me, where in TWOK does the Enterprise head off to Kronos?

And I don’t recall seeing Chistopher Pike in it anywhere…….

And…..well, I think you get the picture…..

144. HubcapDave - May 17, 2013

@142

that’s a joke, right?

145. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

@144. Nope.

146. Bobby B - May 18, 2013

@Mr.Orci,

Is there any % chance that Harrison’s reveal was an “I am Spartacus!!!” moment? Mr. Cumberbatch really looks like someone else in TWOK, and I wonder if any of the genetics were awakened, wouldn’t they want to protect their leader as much as possible or even take credit to get the glory to boost their ego?

I feel like it’d be an interesting reveal, clean up the loose ends that some fans seem to have issues with, and play into some conspiracy theories I know you’re very much a fan of and/or believer in.

147. HubcapDave - May 18, 2013

@145

I’m guessing then you’re young and never watch and of the Rocky movies?

Apollo Creed is the fighter Rocky Balboa fights in Rocky and Rocky 2.

148. Eduardo Cordeiro - May 18, 2013

Just arrived home from a early screening of Star Trek Into Darkness in Sao Paulo Brazil. (the movie only premieres here officially in June 14).
Audience packed with Trek Fans cheering at the pivotal moments, this movie is a BLAST!.

I´m still trying to figure out how I will sleep after this intense ride!

Great performances all around, specially Pine and Cumberbatch.

Peter Weller enters the long line of crazy Starfleet Admiral´s.

The audience went crazy when Prime Spock appeared in the viewscreen!

My only complaint now is that I´ll only be seeing this great Star Trek movie nearly one month from now.

Greetings to my felow fans!

149. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

@147. Not young, can’t stand Rocky, never could, only watched one of them all the way through, number 5 as I recall, and only once.

150. Thorny - May 18, 2013

@boborci
Love the movie! Just one question…

Why was Nurse Chapel apparently written out of this movie series? There were a few Sickbay scenes where it would have been easy to give her a cameo, instead of being said to have left the ship.

151. Dilithium_doublebock - May 18, 2013

MJ
I felt obliged to acknowledge that you got it right because I had had copied several of your posts and had planned to bring those words back when you were proven wrong. But you weren’t. Kudos.

And kudos to Anthony for being spot on with his reporting from his sources.

STID is a fantastic movie. A masterpiece? No. I wouldn’t use that word for any ST movie, but we’re heading that way.

@112 Steve
WoK was a rehash of old submarine movies. Slow, lumbering starships. And did it seem right that Scotty would bring a wounded crewman (his nephew?) to the bridge instead of sickbay? I’ll say it–STID is better than WoK. My opinion.

152. EllenC - May 18, 2013

@127
10000000000000% agree with your every word. If it’s in a lesser actor’s hands, this Khan would have become a crappy lunatic; even though Cumberbatch saved face and won lots of praises; it can’t change the fact that this character is very thin and poorly written. I wouldn’t say this is a new iconic character for the mass audience or new generation fans. It’s such a shame because it could have been if the script for this character in this movie is at least decent . IMHO, Cumberbatch is wasted. Actually, for me, because the villain is so underdeveloped, it also makes the movie much less compelling.

153. Thorny - May 18, 2013

149… You only watched by far the worst Rocky movie? You do realize 1976′s original “Rocky” won the Academy Awards for Best Picture and Best Director, right? Give it a try.

154. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 18, 2013

What I found interesting was Pike’s interpretation of the Prime Directive and the comment he made to Kirk about interfering with destiny.

How does anyone know that part of the destiny of the Nibiru world and its people was actually to be saved from volcanic annihilation by the fortuitous technological intervention by Spock and the Enterprise under the command of a young Captain Kirk? Right time and place are everything.

The ethical question could be – how could Kirk and co. not try to prevent such a devastating eruption if they had the means to do so?

Bob Orci – do you think that Kirk was sooo wrong as to lose his command and be sent back to the Academy? His actions saved a planet and later a valued crewmember…OK, that meant being seen by the inhabitants, but how much real damage could have really been done, given how primitive the people were?

Hopefully, I will see it again in 2D for a fourth time this coming week.

155. Thomas Vinelli - May 18, 2013

@4I saw a old interview with Gene before he passed away and he himself expressed what you said .and that is He knew if Star trek went on in the future he himself hoped who ever took over would do different things with Star trek and new ideas. So Gene as a creative person knew himself you can’t keep doing the same thing over and over again. So for old Trek fans like me ,lets move on and imbrace new ideas. In all the TV series there were new ideas and things even though there was these Rules of Star trek .
As Gene said there are as many new stories as space is big itself, so old trek fans lighten up .

156. Kevin Browning - May 18, 2013

@ Boborci

Thank you for bringing back Star Trek from obscurity. I love the new trek and I love STID!!! I’m not sure if you will actually read this or not, but I will say that all my expectations were met. I wanted social commentary and you brought us Admiral Bush I mean Marcus…Awesome!!!…I was hoping I would hear a Beastie Boys song in this one too…Awesome!!! I was hoping Kirk would not kill Khan but instead bring him to justice and be the better man…Awesome!!! And for my final expectation…we got to see Kirk learning what it takes to be Captain…humility and facing his own mortality…Awesome!!!

I know Star Trek XIII will be Star Trek’s “Skyfall” in 2016. Cannot Wait!!!!

157. LizardGirl - May 18, 2013

Whaa..? I’m confused, what happened to the other sticky? Well this is better anyway. Trying to read through 1,000+ posts is a little rough, honestly!

Stand out Moments

DEATH!!

I cried.

Even though I knew Kirk couldn’t die so early in his career. I think it was more or less watching Spock come to the realization (a very late one) that Kirk is actually very important to him. Also, I cried watching Kirk cry over his second dad (Pike). Those moments were just as, if not more, heart rending than watching George Kirk die saving his family.

Spock/Khan Smackdown

Okay…Spock got his tail handed to him for a bit. Which is startling. But I can’t get the image of him lifting Khan up, flipping him in mid-air, and slamming him back down on this flying metal platform, before attempting to paint said platform with Khan’s face. If anyone, other than Uhura, was there and attempted to “calm him down”, I don’t it would’ve worked very well.

VENGEANCE

That ship scared the crap out of me. Even more so than Nero’s. I got quite audible in the theater when that Dreadnought class ship, in a terrifying display of road rage, bore down on the Enterprise in MID WARP and proceeded to tear into its narrow behind. The sound of that ship coming… I will have nightmares, I tell you!

Benedict Cumberbatch, DUH!

To try to find the right words to express my respect and mind-blown…ness would take waay too long. I mean, who gives a crap that he’s British! He destroyed it (in a good way)! Just…brutal.

You guys remember when we got the first screen shots of him soaring off of that platform on Qo’noS. Most people right off were like, that guy isn’t human. You can’t go flying off platforms and land on your feet like a cat!!!
*****
I never really invested too much bias into who the villain was (or actaully cared to). But I weighed in from time to time. I won’t claim anything personally, but I know what’s coming! I’m surprised they haven’t come out to collect, so to speak. Maybe they did on the other sticky post, which I was unable to read past post 63 (out of 1,000 ) before it disappeared.
******
Then there’s the scene where Scotty and Kirk are following Khan through the back ally of the Vengeance, and they’re kind of talking about Khan before Khan suddenly starts whooping on those guards! And both Kirk and Scotty stand back in shock and horror for a second (like WTF was that?!!! Is this guy for reals?!!). Literally, a taste of what’s to come for both characters.

AND we cannot forget the bridge scene on the Vengeance. That part took my breath away. We all know Khan’s going to wake up. And then Scotty ( who is an engineer, not a guard) gets distracted. We knew that was going to happen. But the savagery that follows…wow. In less than 2 minutes, he’s managed to incapacitate 3 people (breaking bones in the process) before…oh my sweet Lord! In front of his daughter?! Cold, calcuating and manipulative is right.

All of those who said that Alice Eve’s Carol Marcus was acting like a little girl screaming her head off “instead of acting like a professional” should be satisfied that she was indeed acting as professional as she could given the circumstances.

Also, let me just say this: Uhura did not detract from McCoy in any way shape or form. I can be justified in saying that both characters got their moment in the sun and then some. Bone’s humor was there in all of its Southern glory. And Uhura did not endanger anyone with her “unprofessionalism” but rather, was willing to walk the line herself for what she believed in. It felt like watching a close-knit family who were having their “moments” with each other. From Spock addressing Kirk’s “pointy” comment, and then giving Pike attitudes (or various ones simultaneously) to the couples spat then quick make up, all the way to the scene (paraphrased most likely):

Kirk: Do you know why I went back for you, Spock?
Spock:…because you are my friend…
Kirk: It’s what you would’ve done…

I’m definitely going to see this again!

158. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 18, 2013

Yes, I loved Pine/Kirk’s mission statement at the end of the movie – not before time.
Third movie -
Kirk finds Menosia (home of the “tin man”?) but needs to keep its location secret. Too many greedy, warlike races around who would think nothing of exploiting its beauty and resources.

159. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

LizardGirl,

That is the best review of this movie I have read. I am proud of you and happy to know you here.

Bravo!

160. Cygnus-X1 - May 18, 2013

20. boborci – May 17, 2013

—ok. leaving other thread. If you posted question there and I didn’t answerm let;s do it here.—

Bob,

The Klingon whose face we see in STID has a look that we haven’t quite seen before in a Klingon. He most resembles the TOS-era movie Klingons (STIII, STVI), but my immediate thought at seeing him was that his look might be somehow attributable to Khan (being an Augment) and somehow related to the Klingon Augments from Star Trek: Enterprise. Was it your intention to imply some kind of relationship between your Klingons and the Klingon Augments from STE?

If so, what sort of relationship were you going for and why wasn’t it more fleshed out?

If not, to what is the unique look of your Klingons attributable?

161. philip - May 18, 2013

I gotta say the coolest scene of the entire movie was the Vengeance bearing down on the Enterprise in warp, with that crazy, kick-ass sound effect, and all I could imagine was Weller’s character on the bridge SCREAMING at the top of his lungs lol

Peter Weller is the unsung hero of this movie.. played the perfect, war hungry, lost his mind Admiral that you’d dare not wanna mess with.

I think if that Capt of the Bradbury had been “Captain Terrell”, that would have been an awesome nod to WOK (I know they already had so many), but if it had been him and the ship was the Reliant, that would have been cool.

I’m thinking Admiral Marcus could have turned the Federation into the Terran Empire….

Lastly, Scotty essentially screwed over Admiral Marcus from the beginning… If he doesn’t nab that piece of wreckage, proving the transwarp signature had Khan landing on Kronos, then Marcus’s original plan to start a war with the Klingon’s on his own would have been carried out.. without Kirk and co. going looking for him on the edge of the neutral zone…

Lastly, lastly, if that many Klingon’s had gotten decimated like that, I have to ask, how the hell did Kirk and co get off the planet, let alone how did Klingon ships not already find the Enterprise parked at edge of the neutral zone?

162. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

And Keachick,

Your guy Chris Pine was just so freaking awesome in this movie. In my book, he has now passed Shat as the best Kirk ever.

Quinto and Pegg surprised me in this movie as well. Quinto was good in Trek 2009, but he was great in this movie. I didn’t really like Pegg too much as Scotty in Trek 2008, but he hit the ball out of the park in this one.

The funny thing is, BC didn’t hit if out of the park as I had thought he would. He was good, but only marginally better than Bana. Given all the advance hype about how good BC was suppose to have been in this role, I was slightly underwhelmed.

163. HubcapDave - May 18, 2013

@155

Loved it when Roddenberry’s kid showed JJ that interview in his Trek Nation documentary.

164. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

@153. The weird thing is I like lots of other films with Stallone, including the first and last Rambo movies (by last I mean the post 2000 one), The Expendables, Demolition Man, and more.

Movies about Boxing though… just don’t interest me, I love the heck out of Hugh Jackman (for much more than just Wolverine, Kate and Leopold was a pretty good time travel love story, and The Prestige was incredible), but I still don’t want to watch Real Steel, you know what I mean.

Ok well it isn’t just Boxing movies, pretty much any sports movie loses me at the trailer, and I don’t watch any real sports (not sure I can name an athlete from this decade playing for a major franchise, except those who have been in the news for various legal infractions, especially canine related ones). I enjoyed Any Given Sunday, and The Replacements… and The Waterboy, but that is about it for me in that respect, never watched Days of Thunder, or The Longest Yard (either one).

I enjoy lots of things various other people who were in the Rocky movies did also, like the Adam West Batman (cause Rocky’s trainer was Penguin), the first Universal Soldier (Lundgren in Rocky 4), Grumpy Old Men (the trainer again), and so on. The Rocky series itself though is never going to be attractive to me, no insult intended, just honesty.

165. Erde_Kaiser - May 18, 2013

The more I think about it, the more I find myself wishing that they’d just go ahead and produce a new Trek TV series with this cast. Two hours is just too little time to develop some things as well as I’d like, and the end of STID is the /perfect/ lead-in to a reenvisioned TOS. (And while I’m dreaming, I’ll wish for some of the better contemporary sf authors out there to pen scripts for it, too…)

166. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

@164. Forget boxing or sports movies, Rocky is one of the best movies ever made, with the boxing playing a supporting role. You are missing a lot by not watching it. Again, just the original Rock, not the sequels.

There is a reason why it is considered one of the greatest movies of all time.

167. Bender Bending Rodriguez - May 18, 2013

Bob Orci:

Star Trek Into Darkness is the best Star Trek movie, ever.

I say that with all due respect to all of those whom I admire in the Star Trek universe, William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, DeForest Kelly, George Takei, Gene Rodenberry, Nicholas Meyer — I could go on .

I could list all of the things that were great about STID but as I hang on this blog I know that I’ll have that opportunity to do so later. Instead let me say this: the best thing about the movie is that it feels like it was built on all the other great Star Trek movies that came before it. That was my crew up on the screen: Kirk may have been played by Chris Pine, but there’s no doubt in my mind he was Kirk. Spock may have been played by Zachary Quinto, but he was Spock. Uhura, Scotty, Bones, Chekov and yes, Captain Sulu does have a nice ring to it.

The action hit hard, the acting was great and the story was gripping. For the first time in many years I actually cried in the theater as did so many around me. A few us clapped when Leonard Nimoy returned, however briefly. And I can not tell you how refreshing it was, in a day where the only movie justice is the hero killing the villain, to see the bad guy not be summarily executed, but get another type of sentence (and possibly to rise again in another film).

Phenomenal job. Congratulations to you, JJ and the rest. I saw ST:09 5 times in the theater. I plan on seeing this one just as many.

168. scotchyscotchscotch - May 18, 2013

I felt like Spock Prime basically should’ve just said very casually… “yeah, you gotta f’ing kill him, he’s nuts”. Or since they didn’t show his explanation, maybe he did!

I loved all the callbacks, loved that we got to hear the tribble… but I cringed when Quinto yelled Khan.

169. fubamushu - May 18, 2013

My favorite moment in the movie? When Spock shouted, “Khan!” It was so ridiculous that it was not only the funniest joke in the movie, it ranks as one of the funniest jokes of all time. Thanks Bob Orci for one of the best belly laughs I have ever had.

170. STfanboy - May 18, 2013

@Bob Orci and the movie team. That was a great piece. Not the best but great. Here is to the 13th film in the future. Cheers from a 30 year fan.

171. pg - May 18, 2013

Speaking of crying, it was my third time seeing it tonight, so when I felt a little embarrassed my eyes were slightly welling up, I turned to my right, and saw 2 girls BALLING! during Kirk’s death.

Unreal how emotional this film is. That’s why I don’t get why some people tried saying it was like a Micheal Bay film lol, not even close.

Simon Pegg stole this movie… But Weller kicked major butt as well. The moment Admiral Marcus opened his mouth, it was obvious he was a force to be reckoned with. Peter Weller needs to act more!

172. LtPiper - May 18, 2013

Okay too much taken from TWOK. Didn’t like that at all. They shouldn’t have used Khan however since they did they could have been more original.

LLM warp core was cool. But damn that still makes that Enterprise massive and the Dreadnought would be as big or bigger than a Galaxy class ship. That’s just nuts!!

Now where’s my apps game prizes!!!!!

173. VictoriaGrey - May 18, 2013

It seems as if the very vocal minority are over-powering the somewhat quiet majority here. I think this is mainly because those of us who loved this film feel that it doesn’t need defending because it speaks for itself. That being said, I’m going to defend the hell out of this movie! :)

1.) Kirk’s cockiness – What on Earth did you expect to happen over the course of approximately one year!? Yeah, he’s still cocky like he was in ST2009, but what else could be expected out of someone who went from a cadet to a captain in THREE YEARS!? In weaker minds than that of our dear captain, this would result in an ego the size of Neptune. Either way, his cockiness did not last long and was ultimately a casualty of John Harrison’s (not Khan to us yet!) attack on Starfleet. His cockiness died with Pike.

2.) Khan’s appearance – Admiral Marcus is evil as all get out. He awoke Khan out of his cryo-sleep, forged him a new identity, and forced him to work for Starfleet (mainly him, but whatever) under the notion that if he didn’t he would off Khan’s family. Considering all he did to conceal Khan’s true identity, why would it not be feasible that he would forcibly make him alter his appearance??? On a side not, those of you who would trade in Benedict Cumberbatch’s interpretation of Khan for a performance from Benicio Del Toro strictly because he looks more like Ricardo Montalban, I cannot begin to voice how disappointed in you I am. Cumberbatch’s performance is basically a schooling on how to be a villain. I wouldn’t trade it for the world and he more than did justice to our beloved baddie who is now iconic for a whole new generation.

3.) Spock Prime’s cameo – I will be the first to admit that I wish there was more Spock Prime (but who wouldn’t!? The indomitable Mr. Leonard Nimoy is just too damn cool!) but his cameo did, in fact, serve a purpose and I did not feel it was forced at all. It was through him that NuSpock learns that not only has his counterpart faced him before, but that he cannot be trusted farther than he can be thrown (the guy has ulterior motives on top of ulterior motives). It is because of his conference with Prime that he conceives of the plan that ultimately becomes Khan’s downfall. And I mean, come on, am I the only one who got chills when Spock Prime reveals that Khan is only defeated “at great cost”!? Amazing! BTW, I loved how Mr. Nimoy was placed in the credits! :D

4.) The revealing of Khan – The same thing that happened in Space Seed happened here! It is only after he reveals that he is Khan do the crew realize that he is Khan. I don’t see how this could be a reflection of the crews “intelligence” as some have said, especially considering that his physical appearance has been altered.

5.) Speaking of the crews intelligence… – If anything the Supreme Court has greatly IMPROVED on how intelligent the crew is; with the notable exception of Spock (the guy is crazy smart in any damn dimension). Uhura speaks multiple languages (classic Uhura could barely speak Klingon with the aid of a book of Standard-to-Klingon translations), Chekov the Boy Wonder can also double as an engineer, and Scotty can mess with starships that have advanced technology he has not even encountered before.

6.) The Kirk/Spock relationship – While I admit I was skeptical of how well developed this relationship could be by this point in the trilogy, I believe that the Supreme Court handled this with grace. At the beginning of the movie, it is apparent that Captain Kirk is well on his way to developing the love and interdependency he was always meant to have with Spock (I am not the only one who noticed how Kirk looked at Spock as if he were the second coming when he found him alive on the transporter after the Nibiru Incident). The betrayal he feels when he finds out Spock reported the truth about the Nibiru Incident rather than the lie, him admitting he was going to miss him when they were to be separated, how his first act as reinstated captain of the Enterprise was to reinstate Spock as his First, and how he always said “our” “we” or “us” rather than “me” or “I” all speak to Kirk’s growing attachment to him. While Spock’s attachment is not as apparent, it is in its own Vulcan way by how he attempts to defend Kirk, his reluctance to call him commander rather than captain, and the Jealous Spock Gets Jealous scene when Kirk accepts a new science officer for the Enterprise. The scope of his attachment isn’t fulfilled until…..

7.) KHAAAAN! – Never have I seen a lambasting of a scene that deserves praise more than this one. I’m even going to put my neck out on the line here and call it a stroke of genius. YES, genius. We all knew what was going to happen when Scotty called the bridge and told Spock to come down to engineering. Spock’s sudden realization and panic of what that call meant as he ran off the bridge to Kirk’s untimely tomb all culminated in his quiet, desperate order for Scotty to open the door even knowing that the room was chuck-full of radiation. This speaks volumes more to Spock’s mental state than it did for Kirk’s in TWOK. While the scene paid obvious homage to the original, it put its own stunning twist on it. The dialogue was perfect, the acting was inspired (Brava Mr. Quinto and Mr. Pine!), and it served its own purpose in how parallel, yet staggeringly different it was to its predecessor. The original’s served as the closing of Kirk’s relationship with Spock and his first true confrontation with death that he could not cheat not matter how desperately he wanted to. STID’s death scene served as Spock realizing suddenly and violently how much he needed Kirk, in fulfillment of Spock Prime’s prophecy, and that Kirk was his truest friend (Uhura may be his lover, but we all know that Kirk was meant to serve as Spock’s other half by Roddenberry’s design), all while said friend is dying before his eyes. Kirk went into shock when Spock died in TWOK; Spock went into murderous, blind fury in STID. Captain Kirk’s yelling of Khan was in frustration and anger; Spock’s scream was born out of desperation, pain, and was a call for vengeance for the one who was responsible for the death of his friend. For those saying it was out of context, think again. While the death scenes and Khan screams served well in both incarnates, I will argue that Spock’s cry of Khan was was more emotionally riveting than Kirk’s. Those who can’t seem to let this go I believe are holding on far too tightly to canon and it is keeping them from appreciating the beauty of this scene. (BTW, it took some major cojones for the Supreme Court to do this and Quinto’s full embracement of the iconic Khan scream is duly noted in my book).

Overall, this movie leaves me with a sense of hope in our beloved protagonists now that their friendship is on stable ground. It truly was the heart of this movie and I have no doubt that it will be in the final installment of this trilogy as well. The visuals were marvelous, the action fast and furious, and the acting superb.

I would like to give my sincere thanks to the Supreme Court for this movie and I look forward to the next one. (As a suggestion for Mr. Bob Orci, please have Spock and Kirk play 3D chess in the next one. It was kind of their thing) :D

174. scotchyscotchscotch - May 18, 2013

one final thought. I know some people don’t like that it’s kind of a rehash.

But I like the idea that, the universe has a serendipitous way of unfolding in similar ways, not matter how many angry Romulans come along and mess up the timeline.
These characters are all floating around the universe and they are destined to interact somehow, just maybe differently than we saw the first time.

175. LtPiper - May 18, 2013

Oh yeah about all that this is gonna star a war with the Klingon stuff. Um wanna follow up with that? Eh?? Year later and they are off on a 5 year mission and repercussions from the raid???

176. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

Hey Bob, was Spock Prime in the movie just so you could have him state, on film, that he had sworn that oath not to reveal his knowledge of future events, just to shut up people arguing about whether or not he was sharing this information with Starfleet?

If so I completely understand and agree, if not, it was still a nice little scene, and I liked it.

177. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

@173 “It seems as if the very vocal minority are over-powering the somewhat quiet majority here. I think this is mainly because those of us who loved this film feel that it doesn’t need defending because it speaks for itself.”

Exactly. I feel like this is a political blog, and the posts are by Ralph Nader’s supporters — you know, Ralph Nader, the guy who never cracks 2% of the vote.

:-)) LOL

Seriously, look at the polls — only 17% of Trek fans didn’t like the movie, while 69% send it was either “The Best” or “Great.”

Enough said — we all know what the real score is here. But the vocal minority likes to bitch and pretend that they have more support than they actual do. They are really outliers — that is the sad truth for them — and deep down, they know this, even if they won’t admit it here.

178. DC - May 18, 2013

@boborci I’m not gonna lie…..I’m conflicted. I loved the movie, it was far better than the last one and had more of that heart that made “real” Star Trek. BUT when it was revealed that he was Khan, I was a little turned off and disappointed….A LITTLE. BUT it was handled really well and I loved what was done with it and some of the differences made (Kirk making the sacrifice for example, the other ship, Spock wanting revenge for Kirk’s death, etc.) I do wonder what your guys’ take on the Botany Bay would have looked like though!

However, no insult intended but, you just can’t beat TWOK and I couldn’t help but to keep thinking back to that film instead and expecting variations of some of that film’s iconic scenes (the prefix code scene, the Battle in the Mutara Nebula, etc.) And the reason Khan doesn’t work for me as well as he did in TWOK is because he’s definitely more of Admiral Marcus’s enemy and Kirk and Co. just happened to get involved and eventually in the way and so, I feel more detached from this version of Khan (even if it wasn’t Khan, I’d still have this issue). What I loved about Khan Prime is that he was a PERSONAL enemy of Kirk and the Enterprise and you can just hear that in the way Spock Prime describes him.

Speaking of which, I did love the Nimoy cameo. Unexpected and hearing him describe Khan Prime and his encounters with him sent chills up my spine! This was still very good and replaced First Contact as my third favorite Trek film (the first two being II: TWOK and VI: TUC), but this version of Khan just left me wanting so much more…..so….idk…..I’m conflicted. I hope you don’t take this criticism too harshly.

179. Red Dead Ryan - May 18, 2013

I thought Leonard Nimoy’s cameo was forced. The crew could have just as easily confirmed Khan’s identity through the computer database.

Plus it just seemed to come out of nowhere during the confrontation between the Enterprise and the Vengeance.

It was a good performance by Nimoy, but the scene wasn’t necessary. At least not how it was done, and at that point in the movie.

180. Hank - May 18, 2013

@boborci

Why does Spock yell Khan when Kirk dies when his death is easily more attributable to Marcus? It’s not like Khan killed him personally or was even mostly responsible for his death?

181. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

@180.

Are you freaking serious, dude?

LOL :-))

182. Erde_Kaiser - May 18, 2013

@178. DC:
“And the reason Khan doesn’t work for me as well as he did in TWOK is because he’s definitely more of Admiral Marcus’s enemy and Kirk and Co. just happened to get involved and eventually in the way and so, I feel more detached from this version of Khan (even if it wasn’t Khan, I’d still have this issue).”

One of the things I liked about CumberKhan is that /wasn’t/ hellbent on revenge against Kirk the way MontalKhan was. CumberKhan’s a more sympathetic character overall, and that’s something that made him interesting to me. I can imagine him and the Enterprise crew forging an uneasy alliance against some greater threat sometime in the future. Adm. Marcus was the /real/ villain of the piece, and even he was doing the wrong thing for what he truly believed were the right reasons.

183. macktheknife - May 18, 2013

It seems as though it’s only the film’s supporters that are attacking the honest opinions of those who disliked it. If you liked the film, that’s great. Don’t get defensive calling those who have honest criticism “trolls.”

That being said, I came away from the movie very disappointed. It was disjointed and confusing. Lighter moments seemed forced into scenes that had serious emotional weight (which seemed forced itself). The plot was shallow and Cumberbatch’s potential was severely underutilized.

I’m sorry… I just didn’t get it! I’m not some TOS-obsessed Roddenberry loyalist either. I thoroughly enjoyed the 2009 reboot, but this movie fell victim to the “reboot curse.” The first one is awesome, but then the writers/director can’t live up to their success with the movie that follows it.

Star Wars can have JJ, et. al. Time for a new direction.

184. K-7 - May 18, 2013

@183 “It seems as though it’s only the film’s supporters that are attacking the honest opinions of those who disliked it”

I guess you must have missed then that crazy SOB who didn’t like the movie, who posted nearly 100 times about it over the last two days, to such a repetitively negative extent, that Anthony had to shut him down???

185. boborci - May 18, 2013

37. J_Randomuser – May 17, 2013

fair enough

186. Geek Girl - May 18, 2013

@6 Cornflakes

Nah man I mentioned it last week on the article about STID opening in some foreign markets. Good to know I wasn’t the only one thinking that though.

On another note saw the movie again yesterday and noticed that the 11th Doctor seemed to have had some fun with the Nabiru women the sly old dog.

187. boborci - May 18, 2013

@boborci question: when kirk died, why couldnt they have taken blood from the other genetically enhance humans from the Botony Bay located in the torpedos? Why did they need Kahn’s “super blood”?

Many reasons. Time of the essence. As Bones says, waking them up could kill them without proper sequence. They are also frozen. And Bones knows what K’s blood can do, and he knows nothing about the others.

188. HubcapDave - May 18, 2013

@179

I have to disagree. Googling Khan is one thing, but Spock Prime can give you first-hand knowledge of what Khan is like. It’s a smart move on Spock’s part to make that call.

189. Marja - May 18, 2013

Anthony,

I do wish to heaven we could make comments on polls. Yes, Cumby was a great villain. But his character should not have been named “Khan.”

Maybe a separate comment thread per poll? I would dearly love for Bob Orci and others to know *why* we said what we said. (I know it could get lengthy, but I’d feel so much better.

Sometimes poll questions are a bit ambiguous. Did I like the dreadnought? Yes, for a badass baddie war machine. Not for a starship.

Stuff like that.

190. Admiral Kent - May 18, 2013

I liked STID better than ST 2009, which had huge Dark Knight Rises sized plot holes I just couldn’t get past. Loved that Nimoy appeared again! And, alas, also cringed at Quinto’s “KHHHAAAN! But, to be fair, I also cringed when I was twelve and saw Shatner do it on the big screen. Looking forward to part III.

191. saavik001 - May 18, 2013

I thought it was just okay. Predictable and trite in a lot of places. TWOK was made for 10% of the budget and is still far superior… Cumberpatch did the best he could with would he had to work with.

192. Adolescent Nightmare - May 18, 2013

Just got back. A++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!!!!!!

Even better than the first!!!! THANKS boborci!!!!!

Our theater was playing it on 5 screens but it was packed anyway! Lots of laughing and cheering! I can tell word of mouth will be excellent. Did not see any disgruntled old guys. Maybe it was past their bedtime.

I will see it again with my mom on Sunday! INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!

193. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

Went to the movie with my best friend, who has never been a Star Trek fan, he even once rented the movie Trekkies just so he could watch it with me and make fun of me the whole time (I give him a fair ration of sh-t too make no mistake, for many things he enjoys).

After the 09 movie came out on dvd I took it over to his house and made him watch it with me (my fifth time watching it by that point), told him it was payback for the Trekkies incident. He really liked it, and started occasionally borrowing my copies of the older films, including TWOK, and even watching TAS on Netflix.

He loved STID, so did I, and as much as he would hate to admit it, he was tearing up during Kirk’s death. He did not laugh at Spock screaming Khan, nor did anyone else in the nearly full theater we were at, and he loved Spock’s ultimate answer to Khan’s “How can you break bones when you can’t even break rules”. I liked that Spock pulled something out of the barge to club Khan with, mirroring the pipe Kirk pulled out of the panel in TOS. I also happen to think it possible that as similar circumstances surrounded him Kirk’s subconscious mind kicked up images from Spock Prime’s memories that he carries from the meld last movie, and gave him the answer he needed, and I liked it.

I won’t say there weren’t a few issues, but I won’t complain about them till I have seen the film enough times to see if it passes the “Star Wars Test” as my brother calls it. This test consists of watching a movie (at least) 20 times and seeing if you enjoy it as much on the 20th as you did the first and is so named due to shared early childhood memories of watching Return of the Jedi in the theater Christmas Eve, and cumulative total viewing of said film at the time the test was coined, roughly 1988.

This test could also be called the TWOK Test, for those who object to applying anything named for the other franchise to a Trek film.

194. Justiceman - May 18, 2013

I thought it was a pretty good film. Making Khan the villain didn’t help – that made it feel like it was trying to lean a bit too heavily on the past, even more so than ST2009. And Spock’s “Khaaaaan!” felt WAY too much like Darth Vader’s “Nooooooo!” in Star Wars Episode III. Frankly, we could have had basically the same film with a completely new antagonist, and it would have been better. That said, Cumby acted the s#*t out of that part, and there was plenty of witty dialogue to keep things fun and entertaining.

195. LizardGirl - May 18, 2013

Awe shucks, MJ *smiles goofily*. I didn’t read all of the comments before posting so I didn’t know you were already here! Lol! I hope to digivolve into a trekker someday, but right now I happy and unashamed to call myself a trekkie who loves the JJ Abram’s Star Trek franchise. ^_^

****
PART 2

Forgot about the Klingons! Were those Klingons or were those Klingons! My friend and I went together and though she’s not thoroughly familiar with Trek she knew what a Klingon was. When that guy took off his helmet, she turned and looked at me like “whaa?!”. These Klingons look like the best of TOS and TNG versions combined. The cunning intelligence reflected in those eyes paired with the animal savagery of their features is just awesome!

Also, the cast…they don’t deserve the flack they get here. They ALL were surperb in their roles.

Chris Pine should get an award for the transformation young Kirk goes through. It’s a natural progression and never feels forced. Zachary Quinto was tailor made for the role of a younger Spock as already noted, his mannerisms were spot on. And Karl killed it, again! And Anton as Chekove (first of all, very adorable), but even though we didn’t see so much of him, we could see the can-do attitude shine through that Chekov always had.

Alice Eve was believable in her emotions, especially directed toward her dad. And Peter Weller was stellar! So frank in his opinions backed by the power of being an Admiral with a nightmare ship! And let’s not forget Bruce Greenwood. He has always played Captain/ Admiral Pike with an air of earnestness. He felt like the anchor, for Kirk especially.

Simon as Scotty was amazing. Montgomery Scott is a light-hearted character with a strong sense morality that Simon nailed completely. Some say that he was too baffoonish, but he really wasn’t/isn’t. He just has ingenious ways of defeating his foes. I distinctly remember Scotty defeating an enemy by drinking him under the table before passing out himself!

Zoe did her thing and did it fantastically. Screw those Klingons though and the mission, I don’t care if I could speak Klingon backwards, you’d have to throw me out! And in that last sentence, I pretty much summed up why Uhura and ALL of the characters were great in this film. The instinct to survive is a very strong one, regardless of what you’re trained to do. So what these characters did what they did, it shows that they’re following their destiny, regardless of how their future shapes itself in the alternate timeline.

Also in reference to Kirk and Spock, young people don’t fear consequences not necessarily because they’re full of it, but because they’re naive. Pikes death scene and Kirk’s subsequent breakdown shows that the actors knew what they were doing. This was apart of Kirk’s journey and necessary, in a way, for him to fully grasp the situation. Also, I think Spock was a little naive in a way that only an emotionally stunted Vulcan can be. He is Spock and Stubborn is his middle name. I think his experiences in this movie were real eye openers for him.

196. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

@195. No, no, his middle name is “child of” remember how the high priestess greeted Sarek in TSFS. “Sarek child of Ston child of Sokar”

Lol, just messin with ya Lizardgirl. Glad you liked the movie too.

197. AyanEva - May 18, 2013

I just found a nice, inexpensive ticket for Monday afternoon. I have the day off and need to head that direction anyway. :) That’ll be number five for me, then no more until next weekend. :(

It’s probably good to take a break. I am DETERMINED to make my (admittedly slightly ridiculous and pointless) goal for number of theater viewings.

I’m doing regular 2D on Monday so I can see how that compares to 3D, IMAX 3D, and IMAX dome.

198. Marja - May 18, 2013

#165, I totally agree. Wouldn’t it be awesome for *new ST* to go on AMC or Showtime in Fall 2016! Would. Be. Awesome.

And would still give the actors enough time to work on other projects.

Bob Orci, I loved the movie. I’ve already seen it twice and plan to go at least once more this weekend.

Bravo on everything but “KHAAANNN!” I think the same roar of rage Spock gave as he attacked Kirk in ST2009 would have closed the circle of his and Kirk’s arcs very nicely.

All the same, your main emphasis was on *characters* and *consequences* – two very important things in any story, and I appreciated this greatly. Spock’s speaking of his caring for Uhura could perhaps have taken place in private rather than right in front of Kirk, but his words were incredibly beautiful. You guys write great Spock. Hell, great characters, period.

Not to mention the humor. Spock being Spock in Pike’s office. OMG. Spock speaking of the Wrath of Uhura.

And the military moments, particularly Pike reading out Kirk about his immaturity and reliance on luck. Dammit, why did Pike have to die. [I know, so that Kirk could become a man, but dammit.] Pike was the quintessential great senior officer. Y’all were spot-on as was Greenwood!

Wonderful character writing, wonderful examination of terrorism and its causation/accompanying horrors [i.e., Adm Marcus], perfectly rendered by a group of actors who can’t be beat.

Would love to see ST3 as imagined above – indomitable force of nature or alien construction, [Immunity Syndrome, Doomsday Machine] or stupid war prevented by Organians [one of my favorite-ever eps, Errand of Mercy] [smile].

I think you were highly influenced by the D.C. Fontana, Gene Coon and some of the best writers of Trek, that’s why I have so enjoyed the Enterprise crew in the AU iteration. I do hope we get to move beyond Khan for the next one though.

199. Vespasian - May 18, 2013

Time for MY review, I had to sleep on it.:) I’ll start with the cons.

CONS:

- I feel that sometimes there was an overreliance on Space Seed and The Wrath of Khan:
a) during the Khan revelation: sure, Khan is famous to *us*, the audience, but Kirk and Spock didn’t know who he was (just like in Space Seed where they don’t recognize Khan until they get his full name), so Khan’s delivery was a little too dramatic in that sense
b) the small winks at us (Carol Marcus and family, the glass death scene with the hands), but truth be told, I’m generally annoyed by movie references

- The “KHAAAAAN!!!” yell. I didn’t like it in TWOK, Shatner overacted and that’s why it’s iconic. Well, Quinto did it better at least.:)

- The Klingon part seemed a little superfluous. Unless this film is setting up Star Trek XIII (all-out war?), in which case, it’s forgiven, gimme my Klingons!:D Other than that, they were cool.

- Too little space battle! Also, it’d be nice too see the Enterprise fighting a ship that’s not immensely more powerful.

- Having said that, I felt there was too much action this time. I loved ST09 and its action scenes, but in this movie, it went into overdrive. The post-climax chase scene in the end of the movie, I could have done without.

PROS

- The performances: Chris Pine, Simon Pegg and Benedict Cumberbatch stood out in particular.

- The true villain revelation: no, I don’t mean Khan, I mean Admiral Marcus. The basterd deserved that bladerunner death! I hope his legacy will be dealth with in Star Trek XIII.

- Having said that, Khan: he was a badass villain too in the end! Animalistic, yet sophisticated too. I liked that his aspects from Space Seed were used, e.g. Khan used to be an engineer, his body has regenerating powers, he deeply cares about his crew, etc.

- Khan didn’t die: I guess @boborci and the others felt too that CumberKhan was too good a villain to lose.:)

- I liked the morals of the movie: we should stay true to our ideals, even if the threat is barbaric. Well done.

- The special effects: they were awsome! I also liked the new locations inside the Enterprise.

- The music: Michael Giachhino did it again! Please, make him stay for Star Trek XIII!

- The death of Admiral Pike was superb! Very well acted by everybody, Pine, Quinto, but particularly Bruce Greenwood.

- Spock double-crossing Khan’s double-cross was fantastic.:)

MY SCORE: 7.5 of 10

I liked ST09 better, but I really liked this movie too! My advice for Star Trek XIII: mix it up a little, lose some of the action, especially because you have brilliant actors. Make the movie a little more cerebral and set it during an all-out war with the Klingons.

200. Buzz Cagney - May 18, 2013

44 MJ! Missed you of late.
As to saying you deduced it was Khan- well, yea, you did, sort of, but your resolve on that didn’t half crumble in the last few weeks before release didn’t it. lol
Still, good to see you back again.
Any idea’s on the villain for the next one? ;)

I good friend of mine came up with a good description for Darkness- a big shoulder shrug in the parking lot. !
Nice one, Vults. And you thought you were going to really hate it, so thats praise indeed mate. :)

201. JP - May 18, 2013

Well now Kirk doesn’t have to tell a long story and explain to Carol who is Khan…she got the first hand scoop on that ironically and maybe can send prime Carol a warning! lol

202. Bell - May 18, 2013

@173 VictoriaGrey-

Everything you said was perfect and exactly how I felt. Especially the part about Kirk and Spock. They are two halves of a whole and they need each other more than they will ever need anyone else in their lives. This movie shows them realizing that. LOVED IT! People are tearing apart that scene but I thought it was beautiful. Star Trek is about many important things, but none more important then the partnership that is Kirk and Spock. Many have called ST a sort of love story between the two men, and in a way they are right. The relationship is incredibly deep and profound and one of the most iconic of all time. Glad to see them have so many great scenes showing them growing and bringing out the best in each other :)

203. steve - May 18, 2013

whats this supreme court i keep hearing about?
was this in the movie and i missed it?

the meeting of starflet officers, was that the supreme court?

i just ask cause someone earlier thanked the supreme court

204. Geek Girl - May 18, 2013

@Steve

The Supreme Court is the name JJ, Orci, Kurtzman call themselves. My apologies if I left anyone out.

205. Geek Girl - May 18, 2013

Ooh Lindelof! Pretty sure he in it too.

206. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

@200 “Any idea’s on the villain for the next one? ;)”

Hi Buzz, yes, I took a couple weeks off from here before the movie to avoid major spoilers given it opened overseas so early.

It’s really early, but knowing that Orci is a TNG fan, and knowing that the Enterprise will be in deep space on its five year mission, I would not be shocked to see the first encounter with the Borg in the next movie. The argument being that in this alt universe the E’s deep space mission sends it farther out and in different locations than the Prime E went.

Just thinking out loud on this — I am in no way predicting this yet.

207. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 18, 2013

@100. BatlethInTheGroin – May 17, 2013
To those who voted that they’d see it 5+ times in theaters… don’t you have TVs? Why waste $50 to see a movie in theaters when you could buy it for less than half that and actually own the thing?

What makes you think we won’t do that as well?

Living up to my pseudonym…

PS – seen it 5 times so far. It’s my birthday on Tuesday so I might be able to sneak another one in before my family have me carted off to the ‘funny farm’.

208. draderman - May 18, 2013

I think all the plot holes mentioned above can be explained away by Spock prime and or the Narada interfering with this “parallel” universe. Same rules as last movie: Starfleet either A: scanned the Narada, learned stuff the original timeline didn’t know, then designed their ships and tech accordingly, or B: never made discoveries that the prime universe made because of the interference. That’s why Spock and Uhura are together. That’s why engineering looks so different. That’s why transporters beam you to other planets. That’s why people are British. That’s why mcCoy discovers Khan-blood is magical. That’s why that’s why that’s why.

Lens flares: That’s why.

Keenser: That’s why.

It’s like, the writers found a loophole. there’s a Prime Directive, a Temporal Prime Directive, but there is no Alternate Universe Prime directive. If there were, Spock prime wouldn’t be “messing” with it. So now they’ve created this nice little spot in the corner of the universe they can fuck with all they want without contaminating the prime universe. It’s bloody brilliant.

I don’t see how anything from this movie could impact any of the events or our knowledge of the Prime universe.

I guess what I’m saying is there are 2 khans now. 2 Enterprise’s. 2 Kirk’s 2 Spock’s 2 McCoy’s. 1 Keenser. 4 light’s.

So… Good movie!

209. Clark84 - May 18, 2013

@boborci – The movie was great Bob! I spoiled myself and went in with lowered expectations but ended up liking it much more than I thought I would. Thanks for a great movie!

The only constructive critisim I have might have more to do with editing than scripting. Sometimes little things set a tone and define the reality of a universe. The lack of travel time or inconsistancies with the travel times make the universe feel much smaller than it should. A few edits and script changes showing that time has passed would help fix this. The universe should seem BIG and going from planet to planet should not take minutes.

Space should be big dark and expansive. It should feel mysterious and dangerous. If you can better pull this off, the sense of adventure will be enhanced. Besides this, it seems many of the fans, despite what I would have thought, want to see these movies go into new territory. Don’t be afraid to have your own adventures.

210. John Cooley - May 18, 2013

@Bob,

Thank you sir.
I just returned from seeing Star Trek Into Darkness, and simply wanted to say thank you for one part of the movie in particular. The Enterprise.
Sometime after the first film, I wrote you and asked that in your next film the Enterprise be treated as the character that she was in the original series and to a lesser degree, all of her other incarnations as well. At the time, you responded to me with a nice note an I remember feeling hopeful that in your next film the Enterprise would get her chance in the spotlight.

You delivered, and more. In this film you could really feel the crew’s, and more importantly Kirk’s love for their ship. I got a sense in Into Darkness of the ship as more than mearly a vessel, and thought that crew’s love and connection to their ship was well portrayed. Now I’ll admit to being a bit of a design snob, and initially this new ship left me feeling a bit cold, but no more. The way you integrated her into the story, and the way you demonstrated the crew’s obvious affection for her, has left me feeling a bit better about this still new USS Enterprise. I have a bit of a soft spot for this ship now, and truly feel that she can take her rightful place alongside her sister ships named Enterprise.

Well done sir, and thanks!

John

211. LizardGirl - May 18, 2013

@ 196 Unwanted

LOL! You forgot “That Pointy Eared”. That also seems to be a middle name contender.

212. DavidJ - May 18, 2013

I was a HUGE fan and defender of the first movie…… but this one just didn’t work for me at all, and was too much of a mindless action flick for my taste.

There was no sign of the bright and optimistic Star Trek future in this, no exploration or philosophy or thoughtful dialogue– just a lot of fighting and violence and militarism and people seeking revenge. Lots and lots of revenge.

And while the plot holds together on a basic level, there were SO many liberties taken with the Trek universe and technology and character backstories that it all just started to seem completely random and ridiculous after awhile.

213. J_Randomuser - May 18, 2013

@185 boborci:

HOLY CRAP! You responded to my comment! I think I just nerd-gasimed.

Seriously. I was thinking about this during my gig tonight while on set break, Dude, it was a GREAT movie. I think part of the issue for a lot of fans is, like Star Wars, people’s expectations are REALLY high and when you don’t soar past them at Warp 9, they get a little bent out of shape. I think you guys did a bang up job, and my critiques aside, it was a wonderful Star Trek movie.

I had a few reservations after 2009, but a lot of those have been cleared up after today. I await Trek 3 with baited breath (…assuming there’s more exploring going on and less “angry villian”. But who am I kidding, after the crap RIck Berman put us through, as long as the story is quasi-engaging, I’ll be happy!)

You’re a champ, Bob.

PS: Told the bandleader tonight about the Albert King in the movie. Even HE thought that was cool!

214. Toonloon - May 18, 2013

Another parallel with TWOK, but this time on the production side, was the inability to get the first choice actor for the villain.

I’ll explain… just like in TWOK when GR leaked Spock’s death to fandom and it forced the film makers to move Spock’s death to the end and thus became a better picture, I think Benedict Cumberbatch’s casting improved the picture. I don’t believe Benecio del Toro would have kept quiet as long and I don’t believe we would have been as interested who the villain is as it would be fairly obvious to us fans. Also, I think Ben is a much better actor and it works better for me having Kirk and Harrison look the same age. (I know Harrison isn’t, but it’s the on screen pairing that counts)

Might go and see this again next week in IMAX. I saw it on day one in 3D. May go for the 2D IMAX next.

:D

215. Killamarshtrek - May 18, 2013

Hi Bob,

You remember the ‘April Giant Gun’ artwork that Drew Mcweeny found at your Bad Robot open day, and the subsequent coroborating sound effect myself and NCC 7315 spotted on the Bad Robot webinar (swallowed that one hook, line & sinker didn’t I)? Was that a deliberate ‘ruse’ or at one point was Harrison gonna be called April?

216. dmduncan - May 18, 2013

Just got back from seeing it. Good movie.

Cumberbatch had the difficult job of following Ricardo Montalban as Khan in comparison to whom he literally does not look so good. It wasn’t just that he was so pale and at times looked more like Commander Data than Khan Noonien Singh; he also just wasn’t as subtle. He actually made me realize how good an actor Montalban was. At times BC was wooden, acting more like an unemotional android than a human being, e.g., when he’s getting beaten by Kirk and has no reaction, or when he’s sitting rigidly on the bed in sickbay. There were some moments, i.e., the duel of wits with Mr. Spock that were brilliantly conceived and where he was acting his ass off, but at no time did I believe that he was Khan.

That casting choice did not work. It’s likely to please those fans who wanted to be right about thier prediction rather than who wanted the best Star Trek possible, and it will have no effect on those masses who are new fans to whom casting decisions do not matter, but the rest of us got thrown under the bus.

Minus that massive speedbump it was a good film with lots of great stuff in it.

I can also say that since they did mean to make Khan’s identity a secret, it was depending on the character’s general fame for the reveal to have some impact, and it would not have worked if the character was anyone but Khan, so I can see why they did Khan for this story rather than some other BB figure. No other BB figure would have worked for this story because of the type of reveal they intended to have. For example, doing him as Joaquin would have been meaningless to all those who are familiar with Khan but don’t have a clue as to who his less famous henchman was; it would have been a revelation of nothing to most people had he turned out to be Joaquin, so I see why this story called for Khan rather than another BB supervillain.

217. RST - May 18, 2013

Does anyone else think that khan’s blood could revive shatner’s kirk if spock prime returns to his timeline?

218. pauln6 - May 18, 2013

One other thing I considered – maybe interstellar transport over so many light years would be fatal to a normal human but Khan’s regeneration allows him to survive? This would certainly explain why Marcus needed him?

However, the comic has established that tribbles and dogs can survive… so maybe that doesn’t work. Having said THAT, the dog’s pattern retains integrity for months so that in itself is a departure from previous transpoter canon too.

219. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

Anyone else wondering if before he got to Noel Clarke’s character perhaps Khan recruited some 23rd century followers that Marcus was not aware of?

Maybe he hooked up with the “Eugenic underground” (you know, the people Bashir’s parents went to, who would likely idolize him) which has been shown to exist into the 24th century. As a Section 31 operative he would certainly have had access to information about them. Perhaps, even now, these people are working to find and free him.

220. EllenC - May 18, 2013

#216 It’s obvious an acting choice that Cumberbatch made to remain calm when Kirk punched him because those punches didn’t do anything to his Khan, and it’s kirk understood that how strong a person he’s facing. All the crtics and most of the audiences got that point and praised such a choice. I am surprised that you didn’t get it.

221. Aurore - May 18, 2013

What I am really intrigued about are the comments of the posters who thought they would not like the sequel…but did.

Especially the comments of the fans whom I know did seem to have serious issues with the last offering ( but were pleased by this movie ) …

Those type of comments on this thread and others, certainly give me the impression that the movie “risks” being entertaining to watch…even for me.

:)

222. dmduncan - May 18, 2013

A scene that really made me smile: When Kirk challenges Spock on his use of the word “happy” and Spock explains that he’s using vernacular. That seemed to come out of some heated discussions we had in here over Spock Prime’s use of the word “galaxy” in ST.09 during the mind meld sequence.

So now it’s official. Spock uses vernacular; he speaks colloquially, providing an explanation for the exaggeration of the danger the supernova posed in ST.09 when he says it threatened to destroy the “galaxy” and some fans found his use of that word a reason to complain.

Loved that little detail.

223. Aurore - May 18, 2013

…Oh..

I have just read another intiguing comment…

:)

224. Kirk Actual - May 18, 2013

To all of you who have a beef with an intense British thespian playing an Indian superman -

Did any of you complain when an intense Mexican thespian played that same Indian superman?

Is the crux of your argument that Montalban was appropriately swarthy? Seriously?

Because if so, aren’t you just subscribing to the same blind racial profiling that Star Trek has gone to such lengths to abolish?

And keep in mind that England has an extremely long history in that part of the world. To this day, many native Indians speak with a British accent. Also, Sikh is a religion. Not all Sikhs must be from India, & not all natives of India must be Sikh. In addition, while I can’t say I know a lot about that religion, I very much doubt that Khan’s violence & ambition are a hallmark of a faithful Sikh.

Can we say instead that an intense Shakespearean actor gave an amazing performance as a classic villain & leave it at that?

Lastly, how lucky are we as fans that @boborci deigns to lurk around with us commoners & consistently show that he is one of us. (One of us, one of us, one of us…) Thank you sir.

225. Aurore - May 18, 2013

@222. dmduncan – May 18, 2013

I was not aware of your comment @ 216 when I typed mine ( @ 221).

226. Tonys used Tibbles - May 18, 2013

Saw the film in a small european country where there is no Trek following, and as I result I was the only one in the theater:)
All in all an entertaining flick, much better than the previous one but there were things that I had problems with:

Chris pine is still too wide eyed and naive to be captain Kirk, to be the youngest captain in the fleet on the newest ship takes a guy who is very self confident, authoritative and clever. This is the second film where he is seriously outmatched by the villain, Shatner on the other hand always outsmarted his foes and never took such a beating from them. Granted, Shatner never jumped out of starships (repeatedly), or realigned warp cores with his feet, or acted as a marriage counselor, but we somehow never needed that before in Trek. Pine has got to grow some bigger cojones to fill the those captains boots.

On the other hand, Quintos Spock was much more believable. His more physical performance enhances and expands on Nimoys take of the character. Finally we get to see that vulcans ARE tougher than your average human, and they have thicker skulls as well! One major thing that irked me tho was the call to grandpa Spock on the main viewer. Is Quinto gonna call up Nimoy at every turn to ask him what he did? C’mon… he persecutes Kirk for violating the Prime directive, then goes and messes with his time line?

Cumberbatch’s performance was very convincing, but as others here have stated, it was hard to swallow that he was Kahn-c’mon if JJ went through the trouble to cast all the main characters as the same race as the TOS crew members, then why not do the same with the TOS villians?

Peggs Scotty was great-no complaints!

The rest of the cast did a fine job as well.

I don’t want to come off as a Trek purist, but the Enterprise sitting on the bottom of an ocean and scooting around within the atmosphere of a planet (by choice) was a bit cartoonish, I thought, that Voyager was the first ship designed to withstand landing on a planet (canon be damned I suppose in JJs world).

Also did not quite follow how the Vengeance crashed into San Francisco bay and then kept going to knock over more building in downtown.

And Kirk being rejuvinated with Kahn’s blood? They better keep Kahn around, to bring back all sorts of people:)

By the way, the tribble did an excellent on screen job as well!

Again, all in all an entertaining flick, much better than no flick to be sure!

227. Adam C - May 18, 2013

a few Star Wars moments kind of let the film down a little bit namely lasers.. and robots.. if starfleet uses robots why didnt they have them in the reactor lol.

228. Aurore - May 18, 2013

224. Kirk Actual – May 18, 2013

“To all of you who have a beef with an intense British thespian playing an Indian superman -
Did any of you complain when an intense Mexican thespian played that same Indian superman?”
_________

As I was implying in my post @ 223 given what I had just read, there will probably be things I will like in the sequel. But, I will always have an issue with the casting choice made.

Regarding the issue, things are way more complex than your question suggests.

229. Toonloon - May 18, 2013

@224 well said! Although I wouldn’t class Ben as a Shakespearean actor, rather a “classically trained” one.

Look here if you are interested to see where he and other Trek alumnus trained, including Alexander Siddiq, Alec Newman, etc

http://www.lamda.org.uk/

230. oliver - May 18, 2013

God #216 how to get a performance so wrong. Its laughable really.

231. J - May 18, 2013

@boborci

1. Why are Earth-Vulcan and Earth-Kronos trips near instantaneous now? Granted, we are not aware how much time has passed, but previous ST iterations dealt it with a simple “Captain’s log” narration entry to show the passage of time (e.g. like “Stardate 2259.60. We’ve been on our way to Kronos for 4 days”)

2. Is the blown up moon Praxis? If so, that shouldn’t have happened yet. Yes, I know it’s alternate timeline and I appreciate the nod, but it seems a little forced.

3. Please please please kill off “transwarp beaming”. Starfleet cannot use cloaking technology, so they can ban “transwarp beaming” as well.

4. I see that many fans complain about believeability – i.e. Earth/Kronos having no planetary defenses of any kind. Indeed, that doesn’t seem right. Get it right in the next one :)

232. J - May 18, 2013

@100: do you not really see any difference between TV and theater experience? Come on.

233. Slornie - May 18, 2013

Just saw STID for the second time last night (both times in 2D), and found I enjoyed it even more than the first time around! :)

What I did find interesting was how I picked up on completely different things to dislike compared to my first watching. Now you’re going to have to bear with me, as there isn’t much of an order to this. Hopefully @boborci might come along and be able to provide some answers?

===

As other people have said the scenes with the tribble took me out of the story a bit and stood out as too-in-your-face plot points setting up for the ending; and I feel that they take away from the scenes with Harrison’s blood at the start of the film.

What I would have liked to see instead (rough draft):
1) On the shuttle to the Enterprise – Carol Marcus talks about how there has to be more to this than just a manhunt; she heard that the guy who blew up the “archive” used Harrison’s blood to save his daughter’s life first. How? McCoy says pity there’ll be no chance to find out ‘cos he’ll just be a big hole in the ground (or something appropriate).

2) After capturing Harrison McCoy takes the blood still, but this time there’s even more reason to test it. He injects the injured tribble.

3) Reorder the shuttle scene where Marcus gets changed so that it starts with Kirk asking how Marcus knew about Harrison’s blood. Keep the reputation/Christine Chapel stuff, but add that Nurse Chapel is on secondment in England and happened to be treating [Noel Clarke's character]‘s daughter. Also make it so that Kirk turns around to something Marcus says (more of an involuntary action than his deliberate peeking).

===

The next thing that bugged me was the elaborate set piece of space jumping from the Enterprise to the Vengeance. Not the space jump itself; but the way it ended. Kirk and Khan seemed to jump from the side of one ship to the side of the other, and then slide down the length of a very long hangar bay. How on earth does that hangar fit into the ship width-wise? I wouldn’t mind if it ran along the length of the ship, but it doesn’t look that way from the visuals. @boborci?

===

The KHAN! scream from Spock. Yes, I know it was in homage to that other film, but it just didn’t *feel* right. I understand that Spock’s emotional control is still pretty shot, but wouldn’t it have been better expressed as either an inarticulate scream or as a fiercely intense whisper? As it was, the scream was much too too high and dragged on far too long.

===

Now onto the more positive stuff:

The thing with Harrison being Khan isn’t an issue for me at all; there are multiple possible explanations for why he looks different in this universe, many of them outlined already in this thread (and it’s predecessor). He could have had plastic surgery, or maybe he is lying about being Khan (at no point does anyone apart from Spock Prime say his full title – and we don’t know if Spock Prime was shown a picture of Harrison/Khan).

I’m also no longer bothered by the star-spanning comm call between Kirk and Scotty or the trans-warp beaming to Kronos (though I still think this would need more power than could be in that little device).

However, Scotty managing to sneak into a super-top-secret shipyard and aboard Adm. Marcus’s ship unseen still seems a bit odd. @boborci: where was perimeter security, the access codes, etc?

Everything else was near perfect as far as I could tell; the acting, the fight scenes, the special effects, the music. I’m busy trying to convince myself that I don’t want to go see it in the cinema again! :P

===

One final thing, and going back to the beginning of the film (I did say this was out of order), I’m slightly bemused that the Enterprise can sneak up to and under the ocean of a primitive planet easier by night than by day, particularly as she is always lit up like a Christmas tree (even when severely damaged, almost entirely out of power, and crashing to Earth!) – running lights, windows/view ports, the warp nacelles, the main deflector, etc.

234. Kirk Actual - May 18, 2013

@228 – Thank you for the research Toonloon. I admit I took a Shakespearean background for granted given BC’s astonishing skills.

@227 – Aurore, in what way is it more complex? I necessarily boiled the argument down to its most basic form, but do you mean you’re agreeing with dmduncan @216, to say that the casting choice was wrong because you personally didn’t like his performance? If so, I can’t really argue with a legitimate opinion. But I inferred from your comments that you’ve not yet seen the film, so you couldn’t possibly have an opinion of a performance you haven’t seen.

Why else was BC wrong for Khan? Because based on the comments, it seems like an entirely superficial objection.

235. Kirk Actual - May 18, 2013

@232 – To just your last point Slornie, don’t you think they could choose to turn off the running lights & all shipboard illumination at any time they chose? And given their sensors which can identify specific life signs from orbit, couldn’t they have chosen to descend when they knew no natives were within sight range, day or night? Seems to me like an awfully easy thing to do.

236. Toonloon - May 18, 2013

@233 Kirk Actual. You are very welcome. Ben is an accomplished stage actor. He was fantastic as The Creature and Dr Frankenstein at the Royal National Theatre, but he mostly does TV and films.

All this talk about STID has made me decide to go and see it again in 2 hours time.

I’m sure I’ll get different things out of a second viewing.

I’ll report back if I have anything worth adding.

237. Slornie - May 18, 2013

Whoops. Going to post again because I realised I neglected to highlight in my post above (#232 atm) some of the things that I really enjoyed in the film!

The death of Pike was brilliantly played out: Kirk rushing off to do his duty, Spock seeing first hand the “human” face of death, and Kirk’s realisation of the loss of his father figure.

The chase on Kronos with the brilliant character interaction, including what can only be compared to the scene in Star Wars VI where the Falcon is flying through the Second Death Star! (And on that note, is it just me or does the officer at the console by the Enterprise Brig later on look somewhat reminiscent of a Star Wars Mon Calamari?)

The flipped reactor segment with Kirk giving up his own life for his ship and things clicking into place for Spock about friendship (also the neat “it’s what you would have done” link with the start of the film when Kirk deliberately chose to do the opposite).

In fact, I loved pretty much the whole film (apart from the quibbles outlined in my previous post)! :D

===

And once more, I’ve thought of another question to ask (I’m sure like many people I’m going to be going over and over the film in my mind for days):

When Spock gives the order to abandon ship and the crew (led by Sulu) effectively mutinies; I can’t help but draw comparisons with the similar situation and scenes on the Kelvin back in the previous film. What is it about this crew (or about Kirk/Spock) that leads to this choice by the crew to stay at their posts seemingly in the face of certain death?

238. T'Cal - May 18, 2013

In the suburban Chicago area next weekend, Shatner is hosting viewings of TWOK and STID. Gotta go to see them and him!

239. Nathaniel Hix - May 18, 2013

I realize that as an old geezer Star Trek fan, I am not the target audience for this film. Of course I went to see it and Paramount now has my money. It was a fun action film, but as Star Trek, god, what a disappointment.

It’s not really a Star Trek film. It’s just a film that appropriates Star Trek terms, places and names and jumbles them up. Orci and company are hacks that can only comment on original ideas, and maybe twist them around somewhat (see Transformers, Hawaii Five-O, Star Trek). Did they ever create anything from scratch?

“Hey wouldn’t it be fun to switch Kirk character and Spock character around in that big death scene from Wrath of Khan? Yeah, that would be awesome!” It doesn’t mean anything. Well, maybe to twelve year olds.

And then they try to shoehorn some half-assed political comments. If you were trying to comment on the war against terrorism, the whole idea wasn’t revenge, but to prevent 9/11 from happening again.

If they were trying to compare Khan character to Osama, then you would be criticizing our wonderful, water-walking, light-bringing President Barry O, wouldn’t you? You know the guy who made shooting Osama in the head a reason for re-electing him?

I realize Abrams, Orci and crew are laughing all the way to the bank. I guess I can comfort myself that they are going to screw up Star Wars next. Which is cool–I was always a Trek guy.

240. Nick - May 18, 2013

@boborci

I agree with 66. Michael Ormes

VGER and the borg would be incredible!

FANTASTIC JOB BTW! I thoroughly agree with Karen on the other thread!

I loved when Spock said KHHHAAAAANNNN! EPIC!

241. TheSTN - May 18, 2013

@boborci

I just wanted to say thank you for your contribution in STID. I thought the movie was amazing and it hit all the chords and emotions that I, not only as a Star Trek fan but a fan of going to movies in general, would expect in a quality movie.

I laughed (a lot)…

I cheered (a lot)…

I was on the edge of my seat (a lot)…

It made me think…

I was nearly in tears (in the Kirk death scene with Spock). My better half broke out the tissue however – she was genuinely moved.

I appreciated the subtle touches/surprises, the Leonard Nimoy cameo and using some classic moments/material and making it fresh and new.

I’ve been a life-long ST fan of 35 years – just about all of it was great (and yes there were a few stinkers in there from time to time) but please know STID was not one of them.

STID was a masterpiece of a film and everything that I want out of a ST adventure.

Thank you and to everyone involved… I’m going to see it again today.

242. John in Canada, eh? - May 18, 2013

Seems like some (many?) people agree with this sentiment from Anthony’s review:

“..there is one sequence where subtlety goes out the window and the film goes in your face with an almost beat-by-beat… recreation of a scene from (TWOK). It may have been envisioned as a nice homage but the way it turned out it feels like an unnecessary copy that may even upset some fans.”

Well, put me down in the camp that says it was respectful, clever, and appreciated. I think the writing managed to pay homage to the original, but still reflect the fact that these characters are 15 years younger than their counterparts in “Wrath”. Spock’s “Khann!” was appropriate: he’s not Nimoy’s TOS Spock, always in control unless under an alien influence; he’s emotionally vulnerable from his meld with a dying Pike, and from the loss of his planet and his mother. It worked for me.

I bet that earlier draft scripts probably had a “needs of the many” line, if not a “I have been your friend” in the reactor sequence. I’m sure there were some “from hate’s sake, I spit my last breathe at thee!” in there too. (There was a perfect place for a “revenge is a dish best served cold” line; surprised they held back on that.)

243. H Kiplinrger - May 18, 2013

Great film…exceeded expectations. Saw it in IMAX 3D

I would like to see one more to complete the trilogy…but don’t wait 4 years!

244. John in Canada, eh? - May 18, 2013

One area where I wish there was a little more “homage” given would be the music. “Wrath of Khan” has an iconic theme and many memorable cues, but Michael Giacchino sticks mostly with “his” themes from the previous flick. I had hoped that Alexander Courage’s original trek theme would see some love, but again it’s relegated to the bombastic closing credits.

245. PaulB - May 18, 2013

#238 “If they were trying to compare Khan character to Osama, then you would be criticizing our wonderful, water-walking, light-bringing President Barry O, wouldn’t you? You know the guy who made shooting Osama in the head a reason for re-electing him?”
**********

Please take your partisan political crap somewhere else. It’s one thing to discuss the terrorism/conspiracy stuff in the movie, but your comments (quoted above) are purely partisan sneering and not really suited to this forum.

246. David Oakes - May 18, 2013

232. Slornie – May 18, 2013

Maybe Enterprise entered the ocean way out in the middle where there was no one around for hundreds of miles and travelled to the shore underwater.

247. Buzz Cagney - May 18, 2013

#206 I fear you are probably right, MJ. They have the Top 3 Trek villains list and intend running with it for all its worth.

I did see somebody post that you were avoiding the site for fear of having it spoiled. I salute your resolve because I knew it all before going in. Not sure if that helped or hindered my viewing!

I will say that I did my best to like to film, if not entirely with the open mind you asked of me. The first viewing I found it to be a total disaster but I gave it a second try and found it hung together better. I also appreciated much more the quality of the big action pieces on the second viewing, which were done very well.
I thought Pine, in particular, was very good but worthy of some stronger dialogue.
Cumby, well, he was ok. A bit pantomime villain for me. I’d have liked to see Javier Bardem in the role of Khan but he was off making some small film called Skyfall or something!. A shame because he’d have been far more menacing and believable as Khan. imo
Anyway, here’s to the next 3 years of speculation!

248. Scott - May 18, 2013

I loved the movie, but the Pine/Quinto reactor scene does not even come close to the Shatner/Nimoy scene in 1982. You have to admit that.

I loved BC’s performance and the movie as a whole though. Great job JJ, Bob and crew.

249. Fizzben - May 18, 2013

Saw the movie last night. I was actually nervous that I was going to be dissapointed after reading some of the comments and opinions. I will say that I was not. If you keep an open mind and accept that this is an alternate universe and many things are going to transpire differently then you can really get into this version. I think everything was top knotch. Yeah some lines were lifted verbatum from Wrath of Khan but I felt they were used well. When Kirk said to spock, you would have done the same thing, it all came together. I kind of felt Kirk’s revival was a little cheesy but hey, how many times in the series did somebody die and McCoy performed a miracle and brought them back? I think my only quibble is accepting Cumberbatch as Khan. He did a marvelous job in the role but couldn’t he at least been made up to somewhat resemble Ricardo Montalbans look? At least brown eyes instead of blue? Other than that I was blown away. This is one of those movies that’s so cram packed with action that you’re going to miss something. So yeah, I’ve got to go back and see it again. My hope for the next movie is really dig into exploration and discovery aspect with some clever revelation and of course ample action and plenty of Enterprise with her getting the crap beat out of her. Great job Mr. Orci and team Abrams.

250. CmdrR - May 18, 2013

Overall, JJ, Orci, et al did a great job of providing a fun, exciting movie for a mass audience. I feel that it genuinely respects the original material while allowing itself some wiggle room to keep us guessing.

I half-joke about plot holes. I know the movie is going to come first, not the logic. No deal-breakers here. (Yes, if Section 31 has a trans warp transporter and a lotta bombs then the rest of the plot seems stupidly complicated, but heh, they’re bad guys; they can’t help themselves.)

I will sort through the other posts over the next several weeks (Lord, you people go on!)

One quick question for Bob or anyone… Where was Del J. Trame (BND) in the movie? I’d like to see/hear it next time.

251. Kahn 2.0 - May 18, 2013

@boborci

–Was there any discussion/attempt etc at a shatner cameo scene this time? (like the unused cameo scene in ST09?)

-when Pike said ’Data reports that you blah blah’ (i know it might not have been intentional but there was something about the way Pike said it made me think he was referring to Lt Cmr Data) – intentional?

252. Fizzben - May 18, 2013

Oops, meant to say without the Enterprise getting the crap beat out of her. I want to see her kick some butt.

253. Fizzben - May 18, 2013

@250
I’m sure he was referring to data (information) not data the android. They never filmed a cameo for shatner, it was only discussed during the writing of the movie.

254. Promo Boy - May 18, 2013

#238.
Well said- my sentiments exactly.
You call yourself an old geezer… but wondering how old that really is?
I’m a fifty-ish ST fan, who’s loved Trek since the seventies.
I still feel youthful in my appreciation for all things Trek– and good action films in particular.
Into Darkness was definately an action film, but was it good?
And was it Star Trek?
You raise many interesting points– some of which I’ve addressed previously at this site, particularly about the true talents of the script writers involved in the new Trek. Though I enjoyed the ’09 Trek immensely, I do wonder if that was perhaps ‘beginners luck’. Especially when you look at their mess that was “Promethius”.
I don’t see THAT franchise continuing thanks to a lame script and poor word-of-mouth.
Hoping and praying that this Trek does well enough to warrant a third Trek film…. with new, fresh writers who aren’t afraid to come up with a whole new storyline— rather than turn an old one inside out.

255. Toonloon - May 18, 2013

&250 great question

Waiting for movie to start btw. :)

256. stefano g - May 18, 2013

i saw this movie yersterday…i liked it but…do you agree that there are (perhaps) too many cameo to old star trek movie? for example…was also necessary : “khaaaan” by spock?

257. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

I loved everything except the Khan thing. I think the genetically altered villain could have been another randomly selected member of the Khan 72 if the producers insisted on going there. It was obvious that with consideration of Del Toro and Bardem, the producers were trying to recall images of Montalban. When they were not interested/available, they should have selected another character. I love Cumberbatch. He is a great actor and great villain, but he is no Khan. Look at WOK. One of these things is not like the other. I can and have embraced new actors and new takes on the TOS cast. All well and good, and well done.

Wasn’t the stated purpose of the new timeline/universe to not be enslaved by canon? Then why insist that the next villain must be Khan? Why even revisit the dialogue in Spock’s death scene in WOK? It did not work when you compare the emotional impact of WOK. Not a dry eye in the house in WOK. In STID, meh. It was too soon to try to evoke emotion from the death of PineKirk who we hardly know. Why try to shoehorn a new movie with an old scene? Spock yelling “KHAN!” was almost laughable. Really? I am fine with QuintoSpock not controlling his emotion completely. That is what made Nimoy’s more stately Spock interesting in TOS. But this was incredible.

Can’t we boldy go where no plot has gone before with new characters since you went through the trouble of destroying Vulcan and Romulus? The Kirk death scene was a cheap imitation of the real thing: Spock’s death in WOK.

Otherwise, the movie was great. Pine is hitting his stride as Kirk. In the first film, I was more impressed by Quinto than Pine. Here it is flipped, and I like Quinto’s Spock in this film as well. Despite those things that did not work, there was enough great stuff in the movie to make it watchable. I won’t recount them here because others have, and I don’t want the most important message lost in the text. Buy you guys should consider a focus group consisting of new and old fans who are bound by confidentiality agreements

Just next time, new characters. Please.

258. SirBroiler - May 18, 2013

#6 I only hope that your theory is true.

After seeing the movie, I’m even more certain that had Harrison been another augment – Joachim or even unnamed – the motivations behind his actions (mainly protecting and finding Khan) would have been even more compelling than Khan’s in this story. There was nothing in the story that required it be Khan who was revived first. It would have also been a great reveal for the end of the film and set up for the next.

Now if Harrison is really calling himself Khan in order to protect the still frozen Khan – that would be a great twist. But since Harrison is now back to sleep I think the plan has been foiled.

Still totally enjoyed the film and looking forward to repeat viewings.

259. Chops - May 18, 2013

Loved the film. Saw it Wednesday in a packed IMAX theatre. Got there 25 minutes before showtime… only set of for seats was in the second row far left.

Guy behind us had no idea that Kahn might be the villain. Great hearing his surprise! When Nimoy appeared on the screen the audience erupted into spontaneous cheers and applause.

I would pay to see this again. I want to see it in 2D sitting in the middle row. IMAX 3D in the front was a little too much.

In order to make Trek new, to have new dangers where you don’t know the outcome, they needed to re-set the timeline. This happened in the first movie. In order to make Trek be filled with the characters we know and love, they needed to create the situation where their friendships bond as they were in the TV series. Abrams, Orci and Kuttzman have achieved that in the second movie. They able to set up all this in just two movies. It’s similar to what has been done with the latest Bond film.

Great job. Looking forward to the third.

260. Ken - May 18, 2013

In response to the poster who wrote:

“Well, no one certainly complained when they cast a hispanic (Zaldana) to play an African-American character, or a non-Jewish actor (Quinto) to play Spock, or a non-Polish actor to play Chekov. And Khan himself was supposedly from India, but was played by an Hispanic.

How about just first trying to select an well known actor who kind of fits the Montelbahn role, but if that casting does not work out, then go with the best actor who auditions for the Khan role instead?

WAIT, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID. LOL”

Your points do not make sense:

First, your paragraph about race makes no sense, considering the points I made, because the complaints about Cumberbatch have nothing to do with race. Rather, they are concerned with the fact that he not only doesn’t look like Khan, but he looks like someone who is the exact opposite.

Saldana: she looks passingly enough like Uhura that disbelief can be suspended. Again, it’s not race that’s a factor, but the question of whether there is enough similarity. We’re not talking someone doing a mimic job … just similar in appearance. As for Quinto….again, your point about his being Jewish or not, do not go toward answering the complaint I have and others have.

You suggest that they should have and did try to cast a well known actor who fit the Montalban role and that when they could not find one who would accept that they cast the best actor they could find.

Okay.

Which brings me back to my point. It’s not just about getting the best actor possible.

They should have still done one or two things:

kept looking for someone who was a good actor and had at least a passing resemblance to the already established Khan character as played by Montalban (and I’m not buying that they couldn’t find a really good actor who also was similar enough)

OR

write something into the storyline where Khan changed his position to hide in plain sight.

I’m sorry. I have nothing against JJ, the actors, the producers or any of the creative team, but I stand by my point: This was sloppy film making by a creative team that, at least to me, seems to think that they can make a Star Trek movie and throw in some tiny easter eggs that the fans will think are cool and then the fans will think…”hey, they’re honoring the past series….way to go!”

Sorry, JJ, Damon and others…….honor the past simply by making a good movie. And my definition of a good movie absolutely and positively includes casting.

Cumberbatch is a GREAT actor. His work on Sherlock is amazing.

But, his casting in this movie??? EPIC FAIL.

Duh!!!

261. PC3 - May 18, 2013

OK now – enough of the old and bring on the new during the “5-year mission” as it’s time to see the Kilingons, Romulans, Gorn but no damn whales!!

262. Ken - May 18, 2013

Line in above post should be “changed his face to hide in plain sight”

263. Bender Bending Rodriguez - May 18, 2013

I know I posted up at #187, but waking up this morning I had to add this:

Like so many, in ’09 I was initially conflicted at the prospect that these characters were being recast. On the one hand was the old “no one could possibly replace Shatner, Nimoy, etc.” on the other hand was” well, it will be interesting to see those characters on the big screen again”.

I said above that there’s no doubt that this was my crew in the film. But while Kirk, Spock, etc. are no longer played by the original actors it’s clear that the new cast have not replaced the first cast; they compliment them. Because of their work and guided by the great writing, they stand solidly on what the originals did and bring their own. In that way it is comforting to be on the bridge again, and exciting to see what the new cast brings. I think this is exemplified in Kirk’s death scene, when he says “I did what you would have done”, I felt it and I believed it.

Benedict Cumberbatch brought a lot as Khan. I will always love Ricardo Mantalban, but the writing and the performance really bring out how evil and manipulative this character really is. Also, I am grateful to the writers for not mentioning the whole 1990′s thing.

Great writing, great performances, great action, great special effects. The greatest Start Trek movie of all time.

264. ScottC - May 18, 2013

238. Nathaniel Hix – this site is about Star Trek, if youwant to argue politics, go over to the Faux News blog!

265. Aurore - May 18, 2013

@227″ – Aurore, in what way is it more complex? I necessarily boiled the argument down to its most basic form…”
_________

Indeed you did.

However, this is something I personally cannot do.

Note the part of your post I was specifically replying to:

“To all of you who have a beef with an intense British thespian playing an Indian superman -
Did any of you complain when an intense Mexican thespian played that same Indian superman?”

When I first watched Space Seed, in the mid-eighties, I played along, as it were.

In the sense that, although I knew what Ricardo Montalbán looked like without a wig and some make-up…for the duration of the episode, he was Khan Noonien Singh…not a Mexican thespian in brown make.This was the only way for me to accept the story.

Context is everything, it was a Iong time ago. At the time, I realised that Star Trek was a 1960′s TV show, and, believed that this was the best people could do in those days to portray a North Indian man onscreen.

I also played along, when I saw him as Nakamura in Sayonara ( 1957 ). However today, I would hope that Japanese actors would be given a chance to compete for such a role should a remake of this movie be made, for instance. I personally would find it shocking to see Hispanic actors considered first for the role , to give you an idea of what I personally felt when, online, some seem to suggest that, Hispanic actors would be fine to play a character I had always assumed was from North India.

It was in the year 2009, I thought giving Indian, South Asian actors a chance to compete for the role of a Sikh would be possible.

“……but do you mean you’re agreeing with dmduncan @216, to say that the casting choice was wrong because you personally didn’t like his performance? If so, I can’t really argue with a legitimate opinion. But I inferred from your comments that you’ve not yet seen the film, so you couldn’t possibly have an opinion of a performance you haven’t seen.”

As I said, I was replying to a certain part of your post.

I haven’t seen the movie yet. But, even before I knew Mr. Cumberbatch would be “John Harrison”, I knew his performance would be stellar. My problem was not that he was cast as the villain.

I have trouble understanding that he was cast as Khan Noonien Singh.

266. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

And Bob Orci.

Respect the chair. Read The Making of Star Trek by Stephen Whitfield.

In comments for the 09 DVD it was obvious that none of the Supreme Court had when nobody knew what NCC meant.

267. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

“Polish?” Really? Polish?

The most amusing thing about this amusing rationalization for casting a lily-white uber-Englishman to play a South Asian warlord is your saying that they cast also cast a non-Polish actor to play Chekov.

How to put this diplomatically?

Sorry, not possible.

Chekov is not Polish.

He is Russian.

That, along with Beatlemania, is the entire point of the character from when Roddenberry created him.

You see, there was this little matter called the Cold War, that the US and its allies and the Soviet Union (use the Google) and its allies engaged in for about 50 years.

Roddenberry, at its height, created the Chekov character to play his part in symbolically defusing tensions by showing there would be a future and that the world would not be blown up.

Oh, and by the way, the guy who plays Chekov now … IS RUSSIAN.

>113. K-7 – May 17, 2013
“if it is Just about the acting, then why not cast Meryl Streep as Kahn? Or how about Daniel Day Lewis? Or how about Samuel Jackson? Or how about Christoph Walz? If you’re chuckling as I write that, then my point is made….they are nothing like Kahn. Same with Cumberbatch. IF they were intent on using him, there should have been some storyline point about why he looks so different. If you weren’t chuckling, then I still stand by my point.”

Well, no one certainly complained when they cast a hispanic (Zaldana) to play an African-American character, or a non-Jewish actor (Quinto) to play Spock, or a non-Polish actor to play Chekov.

268. Craig - May 18, 2013

You know, Ive been thinking. This whole problem would have been solved and made a far better movie if Harrison would have been one of the other 72. Say Khan’s right hand man. Khan could have been in one of the torpedo’s and towards the end free’d from cryosleep. They could have made a run for it and upon Harrison’s capture or demise Khan gets away out in the galaxy. Unknown the future would be. That would have added enough to the story to do away with the reactor ripoff scene and the pointless Kirk death. Maybe they could have left Kirk over on the other ship. As it was severely damaged Khan makes a run for it in a small ship on board the Vengeance. Kirk try’s to catch him but is to late, the ship is leaving the shuttle bay then the torpedo’s go off. The Enterprise thinks Kirk was killed only to find out later that he is floating in space in his space suit. At least that way we would have been blind to how he survives. We would know he survives somehow but no idea how.
So this would set a future movie up for a far better Khan movie. He would literally be out for blood and vengeance against Kirk and Spock and the whole Enterprise crew for killing his family. Even though they are all alive, or maybe just Harrison had died. Either way he doesn’t know that. All he knows is the torpedo’s that were supposed to be full of his family were blown up when the ship exploded and crashed.

269. pock speared - May 18, 2013

What a wonderful film. Thanks, b’orci!

And extra thanks for addressing fans criticisms with “earning the chair” and that sweet warp core set. you’d think the “promoted to fast” and “budgineering” haters would be grateful and happy.

But maybe not.

270. loungeshep - May 18, 2013

What if it’s not actually KHAN Khan, but he’s just using the title since Khan is Mongolian for Emperor?

271. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

269 that possibility was killed when prime Spock nailed him as Khan Noonian Singh. I was hoping that maybe the entire 72 were named Khan this or that, being superhumans and all. Alas. We are left with really being expected to believe he is THE Khan. That and the Kirk lame death scene besmirch an otherwise great film.

272. saavik001 - May 18, 2013

Cumberpatch: The whitest Indian since Little Big Man

273. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Well, that’s just typical fanboy behavior. You have to expect it.

Studio publicists everywhere love the sort of Stockholm syndrome that results in free publicity work. Actually, there is a massive promotional enterprise for Hollywood and especially genre product that has sprung up that the conglomerates behind the studios don’t even have to pay for.

I think the movie is a more of a mixed bag.

Elements of brilliance and great craft, countered by elements of profound hackery (the irony is intentional).

>183. macktheknife – May 18, 2013
It seems as though it’s only the film’s supporters that are attacking the honest opinions of those who disliked it. If you liked the film, that’s great. Don’t get defensive calling those who have honest criticism “trolls.”

That being said, I came away from the movie very disappointed. It was disjointed and confusing. Lighter moments seemed forced into scenes that had serious emotional weight (which seemed forced itself). The plot was shallow and Cumberbatch’s potential was severely underutilized.

I’m sorry… I just didn’t get it! I’m not some TOS-obsessed Roddenberry loyalist either. I thoroughly enjoyed the 2009 reboot, but this movie fell victim to the “reboot curse.” The first one is awesome, but then the writers/director can’t live up to their success with the movie that follows it.

Star Wars can have JJ, et. al. Time for a new direction.

274. DaddlerTheDalek - May 18, 2013

STID was a Great Movie.

275. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

Oh and here is a pic of the new Klingons:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=milli+vanilli&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbnid=Puz3w1Q2JPG46M:&imgrefurl=http://www.joanne16.com/2012/12/the-milli-vanilli-scandal-has-lip.html&docid=2K9GgMAX2p-FpM&imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1W3I4j1QHo8/ULlo72dbpXI/AAAAAAAADbU/VcRGV2E-UJk/s1600/milli%252Bvanilli.jpg&w=400&h=399&ei=B42XUa3eCvOw4APOjYGQCA&zoom=1&iact=rc&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=144&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:173&tx=58&ty=60

276. Jinn-Jinn - May 18, 2013

I just saw the movie twice and I loved it. The action was great, but I loved the character bits more.

All the conversations between the characters was great. Kirk and Spock was incredibly touching. McCoy and Spock was very amusing. Sulu and McCoy was just delightful. Spock and Uhura was just right.

bob orci,

I am glad you created this alternate reality and I am glad you are being fearless. Despite the resistance to the changes I am glad you decided to go there and change things and not apologize for it.

I especially want to thank you for what you have done with Uhura. She’s not only a woman, but she’s a PERSON. She has feelings, responsibilities and courage…..and SHE SPEAKS KLINGON!! Huzzah!

So thank you, thank you. :-)

277. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 18, 2013

@270. Timncc1701

I don’t know… Spock asked Prime Spock if he had ever come across ‘Khan’. Prime Spock told Spock that Khan Noonian Singh was the most dangerous adversary the Enterprise ever encountered.

It seems to me that Prime Spock could have assumed that ‘Khan’ was Khan Noonian Singh.

We did not see what, if any, pictorial evidence was provided to Prime Spock regarding ‘Khan’.

As far as I’m concerned, the jury is still out because it hasn’t been proven to my satisfaction that Harrison is in fact Khan Noonian Singh. Him saying he is ‘Khan’ doesn’t make it so.

Either way, I’m not hung up on whether Harrison is Khan Noonian Singh or not. In the Into Darkness Arrives thread at 1348 Bob Orci said “In regards to K’s ethnicity: will discuss in a week. stand by.” I’m happy to wait for that.

Regarding Kirk’s death scene – yes, SOME of the dialogue is the same, but the intent is different, and certainly did not come across to me as lame. This is best explained in Karen’s words at post 66 on the Into Darkness Arrives thread (to which Bob Orci replied at post 68 in that same thread that she was spot on):

“I could be wrong, but here’s how I see the point of the WoK iconic scene that’s been reworked for this film.

In WoK, Spock’s definitive declaration of friendship, and his death, are the culmination of a decades’ long relationship between him and Kirk. They both know already that Spock has always been his friend, that their friendship has defined them, but for whatever reason it’s never been said out loud. Now, in his final moments, Spock wants to say it. He wants it on the record, so to speak. But he’s only stating the obvious.

This time, in the altered timeline, these two guys haven’t got that history. What they’ve got is frustration and misunderstanding and cross purposes and, for Kirk, a heads up from Spock Prime that they’re supposed to be life long friends. So he doesn’t quite get that it’s just not happening, and Spock – who’s never had a friend, doesn’t know what to do with a friend, doesn’t know how to be a friend – he’s just doing what he knows how to do, what he’s been taught is the right thing to do, and is genuinely shocked when it keeps backfiring on him. There’s a part of him that wants the friendship, knows he needs the friendship, even feels the friendship, but he’s not capable of articulating that in any way.

So Kirk’s death is a catalyst, it’s the light bulb going on, it’s the you don’t know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone moment, where finally he understands. It doesn’t matter that we, the audience, know that the death won’t stick. Spock and Kirk have no reason to think it won’t. So that is a real moment for them, and it’s hugely powerful, I think. Spock’s death in WoK is the coda to their shared lives … but Kirk’s death in ID is the defining moment that propels them into that legendary friendship. For Spock’s sake, Kirk wants him to understand that he put his career on the line to save him because he matters, because some things are more important than the rules. But for his own sake too he needs Spock to understand that, or what was the point? And the fact that Spock does get it, and says so, that’s his reward. That’s him knowing he didn’t do what he did for nothing. That Spock Prime was right.

So it’s not about being unoriginal, it’s not about disrespecting the source material, it’s about reinterpreting, reimagining, taking a pivotal moment in history and bending it around the fact that nothing in this timeline will be precisely as it was in the original. Which would be the whole point.

I think, anyhow.”

278. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

276 are you a press secretary in your day job? Really, that is a tortuous line of reasoning. The verbatim dialogue, just switched between Spock and Kirk, is disrespect to the source material. And if everyone on the Botany Bay was named Khan, how do you explain Joachim? Really, you are standing on your head trying to be an apologist. Take it at face value. It was just a bad couple of decisions. First, to not rewrite the villain to credibly match the great actor that is Cumberbatch, and second to try to force the most emotional scene in Star Trek movie history, maybe Star Trek history, into a situation with new characters in a new universe. Neither of those decisions were good, and both of them hurt this movie. Take it at face value. This is no deep, thoughtful Trek here. It is Trek kinda dumbed down to broaden its appeal.

279. John Cooley - May 18, 2013

My take now on the status of the alternate universe is that it was and has been an alternate universe for eons before Nero (and later Spock) tumbled into it. Their incursion didn’t create the alternate universe. They found one already in progress. Look, the Mirrior Universe was always there just off to the right or so from ours, so it would stand to reason that this universe was always there as well, and would easily explain why Khan is British, Klingon physiology is slightly different, the USS Kelvin is huge and more advanced then she should be, and a hundred other different things. Spock Prime isn’t in a new universe created by the events of Star Trek’09, but rather one that already existed outside of our own.

280. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

278 Could be. But unlikely that in this coexisting universe a copy of the script from WOK would have fallen into the hands of PineKirk and QuintoSpock remembered as PineKirk’s last thoughts. Just sayin’.

281. J - May 18, 2013

@278: fine, but your take is wrong ;) It is well established that the alternate reality started with Nero’s arrival.

282. Ensign Ricky - May 18, 2013

Saw it last night. Out of 160 seats only 25 were filled. That kind of bothered me. The movie, however, was a blast. I loved it and thought Quinto really did a great job as Spock. I will have to go watch it again because I know I did not catch everything that was going on.

283. Al - May 18, 2013

http://www.boxoffice.com/latest-news/2013-05-16-north-america-star-trek-into-darkness-posts-healthy-early-imax-numbers

Good movie or not, the Saturday update was a little disheartening.

284. Spock/Uhura Admirer - May 18, 2013

@#88Vulken:

Your review and feelings about this film very closely mirror my own. One place I disagree is that I think TOS fans might like this film more because they’ll see all of the winks and nods to them, whereas people that aren’t will just see the scenes. If the scenes don’t work out that well, like that death scene didn’t, then all you see is a bad scene and not the fact that you are being catered to as a TOS fan because you’re not a TOS fan. So, that might make it worse. Although, if you are a TOS fan that doesn’t want TWOK rehashed, then you might not like it as well. So, I don’t know…

I liked that the team all got something to do, even if they had to be a little creative in spots to accomplish that. I really liked:

- Kirk’s transporter scene with Uhura. “Omg, you’re fighting. What’s that even like?” :-) For some reason they just played really well off of each other there. It was nice to see them as friends. It was also nice that he backed her up in the little turbo shuttle ship thing they were in with Spock.

- I liked it when Kirk listened to Scotty about the torpedoes. That was nice.

- I liked Pike telling Kirk he had things to learn and giving him a second chance.

- I liked Mr. Nimoy’s cameo.

- I liked some of McCoy’s scenes and one liners.

- I liked that Uhura got to go on an away mission and use her skills some.

- I liked that Sulu got a chance at the captain’s chair for a moment.

- I think Cumberbatch did a nice job acting.

- I think Chris Pine knocked it out of the park acting. He was great last time, and even better this time. Great job emoting. He didn’t overdo it.

So, most of what worked and what I liked were interactions between the team members and working together on the missions. But, then there were things I did not like. These are things that took me out of the film. I’ll list the top few:

- When Nimoy’s cameo happened. It was kind of interrupted by me remembering that the PTB said that he would not be in the film. Not to be rude, but that’s kind of lying if you know you filmed a scene with him. They could have said a number of things other than he wouldn’t be in the film, only for him to actually be in the film. I missed some of what he was saying thinking about that. They’ve done this a few times with different things, and I don’t understand why they do it. Because they can?

- I’m sorry to say it, but I don’t know what happened with Spock. The character and the acting that I loved the most was Spock and Zachary playing Spock. It was perfect. I don’t know what happened this time. For me, it was like he was phoning it in. It makes me wish he would go back and remember what he said a few years ago about playing the character because he nailed playing that character the first time. He said that Spock is all about economy. Economy with movement, with words (even how they are said), with everything. He’s the most efficient character of the bunch, and this time it just seemed like it was Zachary in make-up reciting lines. He lost the Vulcan cool that thinly lies over a well of emotions. And of course, as has been said quite a bit, the worst of it was “Khaaan!” I wish this were not the case, but maybe it’s just me. I’ve seen where other people thought he did just fine.

- Homages/déjà vu/ triumvirate/bromance. Basically, TOS overload. Also, it seemed like they even kind of copied scenes from the 2009 film. Huh?

- And lastly, I think it was nice that Spock and Uhura got a couple of scenes together. “Unclear,” certainly got a healthy laugh from everyone. But, I was hoping for something that built on what happened in the last film a little more. What happened here wasn’t bad, but it also wasn’t very deep. I was kind of confused by her thinking that he didn’t care because him not openly verbalizing that shouldn’t have needed to be done. It worked out okay, but well, he’s a telepath/touch telepath, and I would guess that they do some touching. So, unless he was shutting himself off from her, which he might have done to spare her from feeling his pain, then she should have known.

And if he was sparing her from it, then all he would have had to do is give her a Vulcan kiss (it would be nice to see one of those in addition to the regular kisses) with their fingers touching and then the audience could see her respond to feeling what he’s feeling. Voice overs would suffice as telepathic talking where he could let her know, and feel, that he does feel and he does care and that he shuts himself off emotionally sometimes to protect her. And then of course she could “say” back telepathically that shutting her out doesn’t help because she still hurts wondering about him when he does that. It would have been an opportunity to see how Vulcans interact with their mates and it would have shown growth for them as a couple. I don’t think a scene like this would take more than a minute or two. But, maybe that’s too touchy-feely for where things look to be going. I just know that the emotional moments for Spock and between Spock/Uhura were really moving in the last film.

- Okay, really lastly. In the turbo shuttle ship, Uhura asks Spock how he chooses not to feel, and he says he doesn’t know. That didn’t make sense to me because being able to control or compartmentalize your emotions is a part of the Vulcan lifelong discipline. The whole society is built around it. My understanding is that if a Vulcan does happen to have a hard time controlling a damaging memory, then they can have it purged through a procedure. I’m sure Sarek would know about that. I guess, “I don’t know” just didn’t seem like the right answer to me.

So, those are most of my reactions/thoughts on the film.

285. whatyoudonotknowandmustnowbetold - May 18, 2013

@143

Just because you take something someone else has done, switch it around so one character dies and the other shouts “khhhhaaaaaannnnn!” doesn’t make you a creative genius. It makes you a hack. Just like taking the Goonies and E.T., mashing them together and calling it Super 8, does.

I guess because of your J.J.-is-godlike-whiteout, you didn’t get the point of my post. Read it again and if you can’t understand it, ask for help from an adult.

286. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 18, 2013

@277. Timncc1701

I’m not the one who said they were all called Khan. That was you considering then dismissing the possibility at 270 in response to @269. loungeshep. I only consider that Harrison might have told a fib.

And no, I’m not a press secretary. I worked in IT all my working life and am now retired. The Kirk death scene analysis is not mine, it is Karen’s. However, it is pretty much how I feel about it and she put it far more eloquently than I ever could.

287. philip - May 18, 2013

Hate to bring bad news to this board since I love this film, but apparently Trek only took in 22 mil yesterday for Friday. All the original predictions for box office are underperforming. It makes no sense to me when this film has gotten so many positive reviews, has the bigger budget, bigger action sequences, etc. Some are saying it’ll be lucky to make 70 mil this weekend.

Makes no sense to me at all. Maybe Trek is never going to be fully embraced by even the non-Trekkies. And if that’s the case, as much as I love the amped up action, and pacing, perhaps Paramount ought to just lower the budget for the next film, and make it a slower, more philosophical version of Trek that some on this board claim they prefer anyway. Catering to non-Trekkies in terms of box office hasn’t paid off.

This will will be lucky to earn back it’s filming budget, let alone prints and advertising combined. Who knows, maybe it’ll develop legs the next few weeks and not have major drop offs.

Disappointing given I felt this film is great and deserves to be a box office smash.

288. Chops - May 18, 2013

@ 276. ObsessiveStarTrekFan:

My interpretation, exactly. It also plays to Spock’s confusion to Kirk’s comment about throwing him under the bus. Spock did not understand loyalty and friendship. He now does.

289. Curious Cadet - May 18, 2013

@216. dmduncan,
” it would have been a revelation of nothing to most people had he turned out to be Joaquin, so I see why this story called for Khan rather than another BB supervillain.”

I get what you are saying here, based on what they actually did.

However, Khan’s reveal is kind of anticlimactic, don’t you think? It’s also meaningless, unless you really know who he is, and my guess is most of the general audience still don’t, beyond what they are told in the film.

The fact Bob said the story was conceived without Khan, and then he was shoe-horned into the plot after the fact, suggests that had his reveal been much less dramatic and not been hyped as a marketing tool, that “Joaquin” or whomever, would have worked just fine.

And, aside from Cumberbatch’s over the top reveal in the movie (for which I bet they have a more subtle take — betting Abrams and Cumberbatch had a serious ‘discussion’ about that particular performance), everything else happened after the fact and could have easily been changed. Just as Orci said they looped “Harrison” into the dialogue in post because they thought the scripted “Ericssen” would be too obvious, they could have likely made the change from Khan, possibly without any reshoots.

Anyway, can’t cry over spilt milk.

290. whatyoudonotknowandmustnowbetold - May 18, 2013

@boborci

I love where you have taken the characters from 2009 to STID. I think that STID is a better film because of the development of the characters, specifically Kirk and Spock. They are not the same people they were at the beginning of the film. My only complaint is the exile of McCoy from the triad in favor of Uhura.

I get it and on some level even respect that choice. It’s just that Karl Urban is so spot-on as McCoy that is seems a shame to hide him in the background.

Nice job keeping the spirit of the characters alive and writing some great dialogue.

291. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

285 it would be interesting and perhaps informative if demographics were available to determine whether the film is underperformning with new fans or with older ones. I wonder if the studio or anyone associated with the film will conduct polls or other demographic studies to determine a profitable direction for the next film.

292. @wikiwackywoo - May 18, 2013

It seems almost unanimous that Spock’s Kaaahahan howl was anathema to the character and to the film, but I wonder how it played to the non-Trekkistas new to the franchise? Or just so young they didn’t bond with TOS? Maybe it worked?

I saw STID (is it just me or does that acronym sound like a venereal disease?) Thursday night and I think I was pretty hard on it in the previous thread, while saying it did have its moments and the action was superb. A few days later I feel a bit better about it. The warts and holes that any action movie is bound to have, aside, I’m left with a certain warmth. We get critical here because we have a history with this franchise.

I still do like ’09 much better than Into Darkness. It was like having your high school sweetheart come back, they’re young and bold, fresh and new again, and they make you feel like that as well. I walked away glowing and saw it again and again, still do. I saw it in Bangkok, at 10am, with only 4 other people in the theater and the coldest Coke I ever had in the cup holder beside me. I was mesmerized, relieved, overjoyed. I had no nits to pick, not one.

Darkness was a bit more heavy-booted but it did continue that new vigor. It’s just that if it’s going to reach back to stir old memories, it shouldn’t mock them and that’s what the Spock howl felt like. But maybe not to the newbies and they are the ones going forward who will see to it, or not, that this franchise will LLAP.

293. John Cooley - May 18, 2013

@280

Just because the new universe “started” with Nero’s incursion in 2233 from the point of view of our characters in Star Trek ’09, doesn’t make it so. The changes in the universe prior to 2233: Khan, the Kelvin, and other bits that do not jive completely with established continuity are easily explained away as that this particular universe has always been alternate yet mostly similar to our own. It’s well established in Star Trek that we exist in a multiverse. And Bob and company explored this concept further in the official comic tie in series from IDW in their homage to “Mirrior, Mirrior”.

294. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

276 and 286. I actually agree with your analysis about Spock’s character development. It is the glaring similarities of the death scene, the verbatim lines, the glass separating Kirk and Spock, the hands touching, the Vulcan salute, etc. that were unnecessary to make that point and that were disrespectful to the source material.

295. Curious Cadet - May 18, 2013

@276. ObsessiveStarTrekFan,
“As far as I’m concerned, the jury is still out because it hasn’t been proven to my satisfaction that Harrison is in fact Khan Noonian Singh. Him saying he is ‘Khan’ doesn’t make it so.”

See Orci’s response @26 to my comments @23.

I am definitely looking forward to Orci’s forthcoming ‘retcon’ for Khan’s appearance.

296. Aashlee - May 18, 2013

I went to the movie for the second time last night. I enjoyed it even more this time around because I caught so many more details that enriched the story for me.

I also came away even more impressed (and I was very impressed the first time around) with the acting. My GOSH, Pine had the essence of Jim Kirk in the last movie; in this movie he *became* CAPTAIN Kirk. That, I believe, was one of this movie’s goals, and the writers/directors/actors nailed it. Quinto’s Spock had so many layers that I’m not going to tire of watching him in subsequent viewings.

My husband and I were happy to see Simon Pegg’s Scotty transform from the more comedic role in the last film to the “miracle worker” and sound voice of ethics and reason he became in this one.

Going forward, I have the confidence that each movie will build upon such highlights for each ensemble character. I can’t wait.

297. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

@289 Juts out of curiosity, where’d you see those numbers?

I saw Trek at a sold-out 3D IMAX theater here in OKC, and there was a monster line outside waiting for the 10PM show. I’ve not seen any hard projections for Friday’s take. I’m going to remain optimistic – this is a great movie and couldn’t fathom why it wouldn’t live up to expectations…

298. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 18, 2013

283. Spock/Uhura Admirer
“- Okay, really lastly. In the turbo shuttle ship, Uhura asks Spock how he chooses not to feel, and he says he doesn’t know.”

I think you might have mixed up two different scenes here. The “I don’t know” is Spock to Kirk when dying Kirk tells Spock he is scared and wants to know how to not feel. Spock says something like: “I do not know. I am currently failing.”, and then he starts crying.

The scene with Uhura in Mudd’s ship is more along the lines of Uhura “you didn’t care about us, about what I would feel if you died”, and Spock replies “Nyota, you misunderstand my choice not to feel at that moment as an indication of not caring, while I assure you the truth was exactly the opposite.” – some of this is probably paraphrased because I’ve only seen it 5 times and I don’t have an eidetic memory.

I understand what you mean about being taken out of the moment. For me, that was when Spock screamed. It takes me out of it less now as I’m paying attention to the small facial twitches just before the scream, but I’d have preferred, if the scream had to be there at all, that it be an inarticulate scream of rage, rather than “Khaaaan”…

299. Captain, USS Northstar - May 18, 2013

I already expressed my enthusiastic response to this movie in the previous thread and am making my plans to see it in 3D this weekend.

Anthony:

There are so many questions for Mr. Orci to answer, I wonder if there’s a way to collect the more interesting ones and have them presented Q&A fashion with Bob providing the answers? The insights would be — to borrow a phrase — fascinating.

Mr. Orci:

Once again, thanks to you and the entire team (JJ et. al.) for this awesome installment of the “Trek” saga. And, thank you for hanging out with us fans!

Only at TrekMovie.com!

300. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

@285

I think your numbers are off.

Take a look at the data from the following:

http://movies.yahoo.com/news/star-trek-darkness-3d-opens-2m-night-imax-160603570.html

Everything looking good for trek to hit an $88M weekend and over $100M opening. Well within expectations, so I think STID is going to do just fine.

301. Curious Cadet - May 18, 2013

@291. John Cooley,
“Just because the new universe “started” with Nero’s incursion in 2233 from the point of view of our characters in Star Trek ’09, doesn’t make it so.”

You are free to believe whatever you want, including that this is the same universe as TOS, and Nero has merely altered the timeline using City on the Edge of Forever time travel (per Orci).

However, according to Orci this unuverse was based on the QM MWI which says the universe was the same until Nero arrived, at which point the universe spilt off into the Prime and Alt, specifically avoiding the grandfather paradox. This is how time travel will be treated by Orci for any future purposes.

Now, you can assume Nero not only travel back through time, but crossed into a new universe (as the Defiant was shown to do in Enterprise), but that is not what the writer says happened. He also is on record that it is open for incorrect interpretation if that makes you happy.

Further your assumption that all of the multiverses existed from the Big Bang is specious. Indeed it is suggested that the Mirror Mirror universe split off at First Contact as shown in Enterprise. In Parallels, there is no evidence whatsoever that any of those universes pre-existed prior to any point before TNG stories began. There is also no evidence that they didn’t.

Being a big fan of exploring the loopholes in Star Trek, I’m all in favor of any position you want to take which cannot be specifically disproved by canon. However, the issue here is not so much with what you chose to believe, but is all about what Orci said are the rules governing his writing — and he was very clear, everything is the same prior to Nero’s incursion. That’s where the problem arises for many here, as the casting of Cumberbatch goes against that. Therefore, any solution to retcon Khan’s appearance has to fit within Orci’s stated rules of governance to be applicable.

302. Phil - May 18, 2013

Anniversary weekend…no movies for me.

303. Spock/Uhura Admirer - May 18, 2013

@#295

Maybe someone has a transcript somewhere, because I can almost swear it was in the shuttle because I remember his face in the shuttle ship at the same time I was like “What?” But, maybe you’re right. I just saw it the once, and that’s enough for me. I just know that Spock in particular didn’t work for me this time, and I really wish he had. You know, I think I’m just coming around to acceptance. This isn’t for me. I loved the last film but you can’t please all of the people all of the time, and the people in charge have to make choices and that’s okay.

I don’t think an inarticulate scream would have made a difference because I didn’t know that he said Khan when that happened. I didn’t know until I got online. I didn’t know that the dialogue was taken, I’ve heard, almost word for word in TWOK. My mother had me watch it with her, that and the TUC, when I was a kid. I barely remember both films. All I remembered about that scene was the emotion, the hands on the glass, and Kirk yelling after Spock died. I don’t remember any of the dialogue.

Something tells me that this scene didn’t come anywhere near matching that one. The thing that bothered me the most was how out of character the scream was. I mean, he lost his mother and a planet he called home with 6 billion people on it, and Kirk had to poke and jab at him to get him to attack, and I’m supposed to believe that he roars like the Lion King over a guy he just started getting along with. I’m sorry, but for me, that’s a no.

I’m glad that it’s gotten better for you, though. That’s good.

304. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 18, 2013

@290. Timncc1701

It would be interesting to see how much age and gender, for example, are reflected in preferences. Additionally, age at first exposure to Star Trek, and preferred Star Trek incarnation – TOS, TNG, etc Is the US experience different from the non-US? …and so on.

…or perhaps there is no pattern after all. There are obviously long term trekkies from the TOS days who are apparently appalled by the JJverse and/or STID in particular; on the other hand there are long term trekkies from the TOS days who, in the main, embrace the new universe.

305. Spock/Uhura Admirer - May 18, 2013

@299: Happy Anniversary Phil.

306. Lords Of Kobol Book - May 18, 2013

@BobOrci –

I really enjoyed the film and I’ve been a fan for all of my 37 years.

My question: Have you guys at least discussed a possible story for film three? And if so, may I please request that it be “strange, new worlds” incarnate, given their five-year mission?

Thanks.

307. John Cooley - May 18, 2013

@298

I was attempting a retkhan of sorts to make everything fit. ;)

As for the Mirror Universe it would appear that it was always a dark version of ours. If you rewatch the opening credit titles of the Enterprise You mentioned, you’ll notice among all of the other images of war that the Empire’s symbol shows up very early, and as the sequence continues it the flag of the Empire that gets planted on the Moon.

308. J - May 18, 2013

@298: Khan’s appearance might be explained by a plastic surgery or using the logic “why does the alt. universe Pike look different than the pri. universe Pike” – we’re just supposed to acknowledge they are the same.

That being said I only had one problem with the supposed “primary” universe: the stardates in the 2233.04 format, used apparently in the 24th century as well (as evidenced by the Jellyfish, i.e. Spock Prime’s ship).

309. philip - May 18, 2013

It only made $22 million yesterday for Friday. Not the predicted $27 million.

310. Anthony Lewis - May 18, 2013

If I could go the rest of my life without hearing someone moan about “fresh” or “new” stories I will be soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo happy.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING!

You name me one Star Trek story this is a take off of some other story and I will happily buy you a new a house.

There are no original stories left, just original ways to tell them.

311. Arcadians - May 18, 2013

Hi all,

Very infrequent poster here. An emotional movie for me – I saw every movie right back to TMP with my Dad, but his sudden passing 2 years ago meant that this was my first solo outing.

Thoughts on the movie? Personally, I loved it. Heart, action, adventure, scale, pace… Great stuff.

I’ve always leaned more towards TOS than its successors and, for me, the exploits of JJ’s crew are a great continuation of the original series and its movies. Yes, STID felt a little like a runaway stallion at times, and some of the parallels to Wrath Of Khan were a little too blunt for me, but overall I thought it was a terrific movie. And a terrific Star Trek movie.

My years of watching the shows and movies with my Dad have made any Trek especially emotional for me… but I can honestly say this movie gave me a big Trekkie grin. And I think Dad would have enjoyed it too.

Thanks Bob and company. Now, let’s get stuck into that 5-year mission…

312. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

So early reports are that it made $22 million Friday (Box Office Mojo hasn’t updated but other sources are reporting). That would put Into Darkness on track to make about $10 million LESS than 2009 did for opening weekend.

I’ll let others debate why it seems to be falling so short of initial projections for now…

313. dmduncan - May 18, 2013

287

Anticlimactic? Well it was no surprise to me because of how involved I’ve been in here, so I’m not the best person to ask regarding the impact of the reveal. I think you can make a case that TRYING to hide the identity of the character was the wrong tactic to take, but I think that for a lot of people it will work, and that questions about Khan will draw them deeper into the franchise for answers to the mystery they discovered in STID, so I think it was an ambitious strategy to risk hiding his identity, but for a lot of people not involved here it will work.

In wanting to contribute to the franchise I’m willing to risk losing some of the impact for being more knowledgeable about the movie so that I can offer what I hope is useful feedback as early as possible.

314. dmduncan - May 18, 2013

264. Aurore

Good points Aurore.

315. Thorny - May 18, 2013

306 and 309… It opened a day earlier than the original estimates. I’d planned to see it Friday night, but when wide release was moved up to Thursday, I went to see it Thursday night instead, and it was a full-house even then. That should naturally deflate Friday business a bit, but not overall weekend totals.

316. Tom - May 18, 2013

Excited about the possibilities for the next movie
Hope Bob and Co consider Shatner an Nimoy at least for a small scene in 2016

How about it Bob??

317. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

312 – that would make sense if Thursday’s numbers weren’t also bad Themselves

318. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

The latest estimates are now down about 20% from yesterday’s projections on the opening.

That’s because the Friday numbers were wrong, as in inflated.

319. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

Well, Yahoo’s article I posted earlier has been updated to reflect a much lower than expected $22M take for STID on Friday, about 20% under projections. That’s hard to charaterize as anything other than disappointing, despite the four-plus day opening weekend. I wonder if the elongated “stretch” diluted the take, although I would have expected the opening week’s numbers to have been about the same once they were all added up.

I personallly think STID is a better, grander movie than ’09, but perhaps its just that we have to face that Trek as a franchise just doesn’t have the penetrating power into the general public that it does with the core fandom.

What puzzles me is that the other media reports from ticket outlets like Fandango were indicating VERY strong pre-sales going into the weekend, and I’m sure those initial $27M estimates weren’t drawn out of thin air.

Oh, well, it is what it is. Just disappointing. No one can say Paramount didn’t throw every penny they could marketing this one.

Still a great movie.

320. TUP - May 18, 2013

I really think most of the criticism would answer itself if people thought a bit.

Why Bones couldn’t use blood from other Augments was obvious.

I suspect there was some internal debate over the Spock scream (BobOrci can correct me if I am wrong) but I loved it especially how it was edited. The Spock/Uhura scene from Mudd’s ship was very important to that moment as Spock explained that he chooses to never experience the raw emotion and pain he did when his planet was destroyed. They showed us that the emotion of the moment was uncontainable for him. And it drove him for the rest of the film (Quinto was tremendous in having the rage bubbling beneath the surface).

Also, as someone else wrote, the scene in WOK was the end of a long, deeply meaningful friendship. In STID, in many ways, it was a beginning. It was the critical step in the development of these characters in this universe. Kirk finally understanding consequences and leadership and what it means to be in “the chair”. Spock realising all the emotional weirdness that comes with friendship and likely understanding the message Spock Prime was trying to tell him in ST09.

Amazing all around.

I also believe Spock Prime told Spock something very important. Hence the cut away after Spock asks “how” they defeated him and the later comment (I believe from Kirk) noting that Spock used what Khan most wanted against him. It was pointing out that Spock clearly “came up with” a great idea. An idea given to him by Spock Prime.

321. Phil - May 18, 2013

I don’t think STID is going to hit 100MM this weekend. Might get close, though. Next weekend will be important to watch…

322. Ahmed - May 18, 2013

@ 316. SoonerDave – May 18, 2013

“I personallly think STID is a better, grander movie than ’09, but perhaps its just that we have to face that Trek as a franchise just doesn’t have the penetrating power into the general public that it does with the core fandom.”

Or it simply because STID is not as good as ST09. Even with the good reviews, people saw the flaws in the movie & didn’t like it.

Also the fact that the marketing was nonexistent until couple months ago & they kept lying to us about the villain .

323. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

It won’t even be close.

Actually, STID will be fortunate to do as well in four days as ’09 did in three days.

>318. Phil – May 18, 2013
I don’t think STID is going to hit 100MM this weekend. Might get close, though. Next weekend will be important to watch…

324. dmduncan - May 18, 2013

Yeah, I DON’T think STID is a bigger movie. Conceptually it is smaller. A smaller budget movie with a big idea will feel bigger than a bigger budget movie with more localized thinking

ST.09 created a whole new universe for a copied set of our beloved characters to grow up in all over again. That is huge, and also why it irks me when some fans attack ST.09 for having no Star Trek-worthy ideas. Total BS.

But for the blunderfully unshot Shatner scene, ST.09 would have been as perfect an action movie as Raiders of the Lost Ark.

STID simply doesn’t feel as big because there is no similarly huge concept.

LOVED the Klingons and would like to see those dudes take center stage in a sequel.

If history doesn’t repeat itself.

Box office projections are worrisome now. If the darkness doesn’t sell we’re probably going back to the low budget days of Nick Meyer, which will please a lot of Star Trek fans who want Star Trek to be their private happy little universe of unrealized potential.

325. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

@316 – no way Star Trek even gets close to touching $100m with a $22 million Friday. Not unless it gets revised upward by the end of the weekend.

But I agree, need to see how much it drops next weekend. If it has a bad opening weekend AND it crashes 2nd weekend, it’s in real trouble.

Unless things get better, Into Darkness may fall sort of 2009′s Fri-Sun numbers but as much as $10 million

326. Hugh Hoyland - May 18, 2013

“Box office projections are worrisome now. If the darkness doesn’t sell we’re probably going back to the low budget days of Nick Meyer, which will please a lot of Star Trek fans who want Star Trek to be their private happy little universe of unrealized potential.”

God help us all.

327. Timncc1701 - May 18, 2013

301 Obsessive, I also wonder if there is any pattern to preferences. In the main, I categorize myself as long term TOS fan who embraces the new JJverse. That being said, to quote Spock Prime, I am not going to swallow whatever is put out there for consumption. It has to make sense or have some plausibility with the prime universe. Otherwise why even have the characters from TOS and why now start anew with all new characters in Starfleet? Again, I love the new movie with the Khan identity and Kirk death scene exceptions. And they are big exceptions. Maybe it will matter in repeat viewings. Maybe it won’t. I imagine that we will find out soon enough and can draw inferences absent demographic studies.

328. Ahmed - May 18, 2013

Saturday AM Update:

Star Trek Into Darkness added $22 million on Friday for a two-day total of $35.5 million. That Friday figure is a bit lower than 2009′s Star Trek ($26.9 million), and it appears that four years of anticipation and help from 3D ticket prices isn’t really giving Into Darkness much of a boost. Paramount is projecting $83.5 million for the four-day opening, though the comparables are all over the place and it could very easily wind up diverging significantly from that figure.

One positive note: the movie did receive an “A” CinemaScore, which suggests overall word-of-mouth may be better than the mixed chatter online.

Source: Box Office Mojo

329. Toby - May 18, 2013

Surprised and worried about the numbers coming out of the box office, it’s looking like STID is barely going to match 09′s opening weekend at this rate, which with the size of the budget, ticket price inflation and the 3D prices, it’s not looking good, I was convinced we’d see a 100m opening weekend and a guaranteed big budget sequel for the 50th in 2016, I’m gutted!

330. Crone - May 18, 2013

http://www.theonion.com/video/trekkies-bash-new-star-trek-film-as-fun-watchable,14333/

331. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

@boborci I realize you’re probably not monitoring this thread anymore, but just in case you happen to browse by and see it, all I want to say is thanks for a terrific Trek movie. FWIW, you’ve got everyone in my family from a 77-year-old mom to my 16 year old daughter that thought it was great.

Each Trek movie kinda gives me permission to be 12 years old again for a few hours. And this one was one of the very best ever. Masterfully done. If folks find stuff to nitpick this time around, they’re just in it to nitpick. I was delightfully entertained to see a great Trek adventure on the big screen again, and I can’t ask for more. Will be glad to see it again. Thanks again.

332. Hugh Hoyland - May 18, 2013

Yeah time will tell at the BO. But if I’m not mistaken didnt the studio originally project STID to pull in about 85-88mil then changed that because the IMAX tickets sold out so fast making them release it a day early and therefore they bumped up the over all projection to 100+ mil? Again may be wrong about that.

Either way I really enjoyed the heck out of this movie and hope it rocks at the BO. I’m doing my part. Also, I (just MO) and a few others have been saying that 4 years is just to long between films, especially one that (“comes out of the blue) like Star Trek 09 did and suprises a lot of new people and fans. To me you jump on that enthusiasm FAST and get the next one out asap. At least thats how it seems to be done with most films. And no, I’m not blaiming anyone from the SC.

333. Ted C - May 18, 2013

An OK movie but way to much over the top action. Broke to many established Star Trek rules (Enterprise landing on a plant…come on.). Incredibly violent and a lot of death and killing. But I guess over the top quick cutting action is the only thing to keep modern audiences interested. I would rather watch ST II.

334. Ted C - May 18, 2013

@323, Nick Myer made two very good movies. I dont know what you’re talking about.

335. Erde_Kaiser - May 18, 2013

330. Ted C -

“An OK movie but way to much over the top action. Broke to many established Star Trek rules (Enterprise landing on a plant…come on.).”

That must’ve been one big plant… ; )

336. Sci-Fiddy - May 18, 2013

@boborci

Did you guys ever consider keeping kirk dead at the end of this movie?

337. mhansen0207 - May 18, 2013

I’m really scared….I loved this movie so much and want it to be successful so we can get another.

I know this is probably silly, at least I hope it is, but I’m really scared for the future of Trek if this film underperforms or at the worst, bombs

338. dmduncan - May 18, 2013

331: Didn’t say they weren’t good.

339. BD2805 - May 18, 2013

SUCKED! If this is what JJ does to franchises STAR WARS 7 is DOOMED!

340. An Old Codger - May 18, 2013

237; T’Cal….

Can you give more details on the suburban Chicago appearance of Shatner and TWOK/STID? Someone mentioned at the movie yesterday, but other than saying it was in Woodridge, did not know details.

Thanks.

341. Sci-Fiddy - May 18, 2013

@325. Ahmed

Keep in mind that Trek 2009 was going against the turd that was Terminator 4. This one is going against the Iron Man 3 juggernaut.

342. Preston - May 18, 2013

First of all I loved STID, but I’m somewhat on the fence as to whether Cumberbatch really is Khan. I even wonder if he’s identifying himself as Khan to protect the real Khan for a couple of reasons. The main reason I wonder this is because when McCoy and Marcus discovered the person in the cryo tube, that dude looked a heck of a lot like Montalban’s likeness of Khan from the 60s, especially if you look at the hair. I also wonder this of course because of Cumberbatch’s Caucasian likeness and because the topic of family was prevalent in the movie. Maybe Cumberbatch is saying he is Khan to protect his “father”, which I mean more so in in a surrogate sense rather then being a biological father. Then again I could be totally wrong.

343. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Star Trek has been screwed up before.

And it will be screwed up again.

As Ron Moore, one of the best Trek writer/producers (though, like all of us, hardly perfect), had his Battlestar Galactica characters say:

“This has all happened before. And it will all happen again.”

Star Trek is a very valuable intellectual property.

>334. mhansen0207 – May 18, 2013
I’m really scared….I loved this movie so much and want it to be successful so we can get another.

I know this is probably silly, at least I hope it is, but I’m really scared for the future of Trek if this film underperforms or at the worst, bombs

344. Thorny - May 18, 2013

I liked the movie a lot, but I wonder how many casual fans simply don’t want Star Trek to be like The Dark Knight. Star Trek is supposed to be about optimism and a BRIGHT future, not another dark, depressing gloom-a-thon. But by putting DARKNESS in the title, Bad Robot is telling audiences this is a dark movie. It isn’t even as dark as Trek ’09 in my opinion, but there’s no way of telling that from the previews. The trailers show images of a funeral (that isn’t really a funeral) and the Enterprise evidently crashing into San Francisco (which it doesn’t.) It is beginning to look like a lot of the ’09 audience is taking a pass on this one, waiting for Blu-Ray and Netflix.

We got a TON of marketing for this movie, but Paramount and Bad Robot are very likely going to be asking a lot of questions about the direction of this movie’s marketing, beginning with the title.

It will be interesting to see if they lighten up Thor: The Dark World’s marketing campaign, if STID is ultimately seen as a disappointment.

345. Ahmed - May 18, 2013

@ 338. Sci-Fiddy – May 18, 2013

“Keep in mind that Trek 2009 was going against the turd that was Terminator 4. This one is going against the Iron Man 3 juggernaut.”

Even with that, STID should have benefit from the 3D prices unlike ST09. Also the fact that the marketing budget this time around is much bigger than 09.

Paramount made a serious mistake when they allowed this 4 years gap between the two movies. They should have got this one out 2 or 3 years right after 09 & benefit from the renewed public interest in Star Trek.

346. Jack Aubrey - May 18, 2013

Just saw STID in IMAX 3D. Beautiful film. Fun and exciting to watch. I’ve been watching ST since the mid 70′s. I personally didn’t find the death scene distracting. While there are dialogue similarities it is a very different take on the idea. Lots of small references to the overall Trek universe, the comics, etc. it moved very fast. As a lifelong fan, I recommend just sitting back and enjoying it. Don’t worry about the discontinuities with previous Trek or the magic technology. Just enjoy the ride. It’s great.

347. endeavour crew - May 18, 2013

Hey guys, when does the movie open in India, or has it already?

348. boborci - May 18, 2013

333. Nope

349. Ahmed - May 18, 2013

@344. endeavour crew

“Hey guys, when does the movie open in India, or has it already?”

According to IMBD the movies was released in India on May 10

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1408101/releaseinfo

350. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Nope.

Wrong.

Too bad there is no software here to auto-delete false statements. (This would be a lot easier to get through.)

T4 showed up later. And T4 did quite well, contra you.

So that would actually be a good excuse …

IM3 has had its best days, such that The Great Gatsby is now flourishing. And this Gatsby is kinda lame …

>338. Sci-Fiddy – May 18, 2013
@325. Ahmed

Keep in mind that Trek 2009 was going against the turd that was Terminator 4. This one is going against the Iron Man 3 juggernaut.

351. boborci - May 18, 2013

328 soonerdave
Thank u!

352. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Well, of course, thank God. (No Kirk, no original version Star Trek whatever iteration one imagines.)

Notwithstanding my criticism of certain aspects of the new movie, I think what you did with the reboot was absolutely brilliant. I was over the moon, as friends can testify.

And you were oh so close, with some editing, on this one, to a very brilliant follow-up. Which is not at all easy to do!

A few adjustments, and you are back on course to pop art greatness.

>345. boborci – May 18, 2013
333. Nope

353. denny cranium - May 18, 2013

Not sure if I should weigh in as I haven’t seen the movie yet.
It’s date night with my girl on Monday.
I was hoping for Khan as I wanted Kirk and crew to be tested by a Khan like villain.
I’m a part of Phase II and for the most part, they’ve panned the JJ Trek outings. (I’m not one of them.)
I agreed with the alternate timeline as new dangers needed to be created with our characters or there would be no dramatic tension.
I’m sure when I see STID I’ll groan in a few places but I’m looking forward to seeing the film.
I’ve said this before, but it’s SHOW BUSINESS.
The writers goal and director and everybody involved in the film is to get bums in the seats in the theater.
Star Trek needs to make money so we get more Star Trek.
So please go seat even if you anticipate not liking it.
I’ve paid 12 bucks to see movies and went OMG I’d like a refund.
I for one hope to see a TV series again.
It’s the best medium to tell “pure” Trek morality tales.
Boborci, I anticipate me telling you well done on Monday night.

354. LJ - May 18, 2013

I don’t know about anybody else, but the 2009 film and STID kind of work better for me if I ignore all the quantum mechanics shenanigans and think of both as a complete reboot. I can somehow buy a complete reboot/re-imagining more easily than I can a skew-whiff universe. And, for me, that’s the path I believe they should have gone down from day one. I’ve been a fan of other genre fiction long enough to know that a re-imagination or a retelling does not negate a telling that came before.

Sooner or later a re-imagination comes to every story: it will happen to Star Wars soon enough, and many would argue that Doctor Who has been through that process quite a few times. Does a re-imagination harm Sherlock Holmes (see Sherlock and Elementary)? Does it harm Shakespeare? I would argue not. Therefore, why would a re-imagination ever harm Trek: opening the ‘franchise’ to newer audiences can only be a good thing, surely.

In short, I suppose, I think I’d prefer the production team to take more risks; to push the franchise boundaries still further. I’m glad they used Section 31: for me Gene Roddenberry’s vision becomes all the more real when it is challenged, or when the pursuit/protection of it comes at a cost. I’m reminded of Quark in the episode The Siege of AR-558: when humans are stripped of everything they’re as fierce as any Klingon. I’d like to see more of that: the mores of the UFP challenged, the price of freedom, the cost of peace. And how far our heroes are willing to go.

355. K-7 - May 18, 2013

@266 – General Bradley “How to put this diplomatically? Sorry, not possible.
Chekov is not Polish.”

Hey Einstein,

Walter Koenig is of Polish descent. I was comparing the actual races of the actors between the movies to make a point that race isn’t really that critical to the roles. Which is why I also mentioned Nimoy is Jewish and Zaldana as hispanic, etc. etc. Go back and read what I said again.

Can you decipher a 3rd grade-level essay??? Sheesh! How disappointing.

356. Mcflycat - May 18, 2013

Overall I thought the movie was great. Look forward in seeing it in 2D. The 3D was cool in CGI scenes besides that it didn’t do much for me. Also when you tilt your head slightly like when your tired at 1 in the morning on premier night).

I know it’s been said a bunch by me and others and its cool Orci is coming with more info next week – but with as closely as the nucast resembled the ol’cast I thought there would of been more if an effort to do the same with Khan, like anything, brown contacts, dropping the accent a little bit, maybe even a light spray tan like montoban got in TOS.

That really is my only gripe about the movie

357. Warp factor Bud Light - May 18, 2013

I’m a little worried about the box office returns.
I went on Friday evening at 7:00 and there was only 25 people in the theater.
It’s showing on 4 screens and the theater manager was considering pulling it off at least 1 screen because its not drawing much business.
Anybody else have anything like that happen?

358. Mcflycat - May 18, 2013

354:
It’s been packed on the Kansas City area from my own experience and experience of friends.

But then again everyone know Kansas City has the best Star Trek fans! :)

359. Curious Cadet - May 18, 2013

@310. dmduncan,
“so I think it was an ambitious strategy to risk hiding his identity, but for a lot of people not involved here it will work.”

Interesting. I’m not sure anyone was really following the whole, who is Harrison outside of the fans. For those fans who were not at all exposed to spoilers or speculation, I would absolutely agree that moment paid off, one way or the other (whether they hated or were delighted by it), perhaps even for some who knew it was coming.

However, when I say anticlimactic, I mean for everybody else. There’s a fair percentage of the general movie going audience who have heard the name Khan, are familiar with the much parodied scream, and may even be aware Ricardo Montalban played the character. Audiences of a certain age that is. However, how many people simply have no idea who Khan is? The movie doesn’t really tell us, and the dramatic reveal is therefore pointless for them. Especially if they haven’t heard about the big mystery marketing over who John Harrison really is. For those that were aware, what’s the payoff? A fleeting recognition with a term they’ve heard before?

If I didn’t know anything about STID other than its a well reviewed action movie that delivers a big dose of excitement featuring the Star Trek characters from that film four years ago that even my friends who don’t like scifi enjoyed, I think I would be confused when the rogue section 31 agent started explaining how he was 300 years old, especially considering he hissed out his name like an over heated radiator as though its supposed to mean something. Then later when Prime Spock starts talking about him, I’d be even more confused because, wait … who is this old guy is he supposed to be the same person as Quinto, and what does he have to do with this Khan, did he fight him when he was younger? What am I missing?

Maybe the new audiences who saw the last film will get the Spock Prime part, but any brand new audiences would be confused and underwhelmed by Khan’s reveal, I would think. Maybe I’m wrong. But I’d love to know just how much Khan brings to the table in this film, which otherwise just doesn’t seem to need him, and potentially creates more problems than he solves.

360. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

This is a waste of my time.

The guy who played Chekov first time out actually gave a better Russian accent, according to my Russian friends — and one of my wives was from Moscow and I advised a major Russian political party — than the actual Russian-born buy playing him now.

Koenig, who is Caucasian, like most Russians, is quite credible as a Russian. BC as a South Asian? Get a clue.

Don’t attempt to waste any more of my time with your errant hyper-nonsense.

>352. K-7 – May 18, 2013
@266 – General Bradley “How to put this diplomatically? Sorry, not possible.
Chekov is not Polish.”

Hey Einstein,

Walter Koenig is of Polish descent. I was comparing the actual races of the actors between the movies to make a point that race isn’t really that critical to the roles. Which is why I also mentioned Nimoy is Jewish and Zaldana as hispanic, etc. etc. Go back and read what I said again.

Can you decipher a 3rd grade-level essay??? Sheesh! How disappointing.

361. Joseph Dickerson - May 18, 2013

Just got through a detailed discussion of this on Twitter. If the movie doesn’t hit $100 mil this weekend, the future of Trek in theaters is definitely a question mark.

If it drops 50% next weekend (and it probably will) it may not even hit $200 million domestic… and international BO is good, but not great. And if domestic drops more than 60% next weekend (which I can see happening with Fast and Furious and The Hangover 3 opening and STID losing screens and showtimes) then you have the perception of a “flop” in may people’s minds (especially compared to movies like Iron Man 3).

’09 Trek made a third of its total ticket sales in international markets, and if this holds true for #STID then I can see #STID making only $250m in total worldwide box office… Which with ticket inflation and IMAX ticket costs is $80 million LESS than Trek ’09. Which is bad. Very bad.

Remember, the studios only get a percentage of the ticket sales, and the deals vary by studio and by weekend (example, Paramount may get 50% of the opening weekend, 30% of the second weekend, etc.) The rule of thumb is, generally, they get half. #STID cost $190m to make and (at least) $50m to promote, so the idea of getting a $150m return on that investment isn’t one that studio heads like to have.

Now, of course, there is ancillary income from merchandising and home-video, but DVD and bluray sales are far from once they once were.

People have criticized the marketing but the real Elephant in the Room is Star Wars. Almost every interview I’ve seen with JJ Abrams Star Wars is brought up… and that distraction doesn’t help Star Trek’s marketing one bit.

362. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

@352. K-7

Dude, I had no problem at all understanding the meaning of your post @113.

And I agree with it as well. Different races can play roles of different races, and this changes with each incarnation of Trek…so yea, no big deal.

I do like the “General Bradley” nickname for that annoying dude who is always trying to push his weight around here. LOL

363. The River Temoc - May 18, 2013

@224 wrote: “To all of you who have a beef with an intense British thespian playing an Indian superman. Did any of you complain when an intense Mexican thespian played that same Indian superman?”

No, because I wasn’t alive then. Had I been, perhaps I would have complained. Or perhaps Khan had mixed Latin American and Punjabi heritage. Either way, he’s not European.

>To this day, many native Indians speak with a British accent.

It’s not the accent people are complaining about.

>I very much doubt that Khan’s violence & ambition are a hallmark
>of a faithful Sikh.

Congratulations, you’ve just discovered that not everyone who nominally professes a religion actually upholds the values of that religion. Most of us learned that on 9/11, if not well before.

364. pock speared - May 18, 2013

A few things I just love about this movie:

Submerged starship, and the reveal as it surfaced. Fine way to introduce Enterprise, through the eyes of a primitive culture. We experience awe for the first time since TMP. That sand drawing of the ship (and it’s visual transition to reality) was excellent.

Cat girl menage a toi. Not even Star Wars can offer it’s characters such fun. Horndog Kirk at his best.

One of the best chuckles I had was the “starfleet board room” scene, where instead of the usual long boring exposition followed cryptic technobabble, they just blew the bejesus out of it. Nice resolve to one of Trek’s old chestnuts.

Mind meld with Pike was sweet. Can’t remember any such thing at the moment of death, and it was a fine harbinger for the final scenes with Spock and Kirk divided at a similar moment.

Warp Core Set: I am a big fan of “budgineering” and respect and admire that very real take on technology… The low corridors and maze-like entrance were like a little V’Ger.

That sound design piece as Kirk wakes from the dead. Without any visuals, we had a little symphony of sonic trekisms. Not since the time travel montage in TVH has Trek dared to be so conceptual.

Also: I am quite enjoying the vapid hatred from some “fans” who feel so very betrayed by the people who saved Star Trek, put it back on the cultural map and gave them all something to whine about. Considering the alternative (no Trek at all), they seem pretty logic-challenged. I highly recommend a review of Red Letter Media’s analysis of why Trek 2009 worked. It’s a great pice of crit, and explains branding and the economics of the film industry very well. Odd that folks who dream of the 23rd Century refuse to understand the realities of the 21st.

365. K-7 - May 18, 2013

@357. You don’t intimidate me, jerk. FU, bully.

366. Allenburch - May 18, 2013

Wife and I were disappointed to learn that our favorite singleplex theater, (Cinemark Century Cinema in Corte Madera, Marin County CA), was somehow forced by Disney to play Iron Man III instead of Into Darkness. (The manager was upset at the corporate muscle-flexing going on by Disney and preferred to show Star Trek.)

We went to our 2nd choice theater in Novato, (a multiplex), for the matinee yesterday and absolutely loved it. Expecting all action, we were surprised at so many interactions among a crew finding their cohesiveness in addition to a plethura of homage to TOS.

We will be seeing it again with a group of friends next weekend and we are confident that the overall box office numbers will improve between this weekend and next.

@boborci: WOW — Awesome!

367. Mcflycat - May 18, 2013

No third movie? Cast willing to tv show?!

368. K-7 - May 18, 2013

“@360. “Or perhaps Khan had mixed Latin American and Punjabi heritage. Either way, he’s not European.”

You do realize that Latin America was settled by Europeans, with Spain being the heritage of Montelbahn’s particular family, don’t you.

Last time I checked, Spain was in Europe..

So Montelbahn’s heritage is completely European, of course.

369. pock speared - May 18, 2013

A few things I just love about this movie:

Submerged starship, and the reveal as it surfaced. Fine way to introduce Enterprise, through the eyes of a primitive culture. We experience awe for the first time since TMP. That sand drawing of the ship (and it’s visual transition to reality) was excellent.

Cat girl menage a toi. Not even Star Wars can offer it’s characters such fun. Horndog Kirk at his best.

One of the best chuckles I had was the “starfleet board room” scene, where instead of the usual long boring exposition followed cryptic technobabble, they just blew the bejesus out of it. Nice resolve to one of Trek’s old chestnuts.

Mind meld with Pike was sweet. Can’t remember any such thing at the moment of death, and it was a fine harbinger for the final scenes with Spock and Kirk divided at a similar moment.

Warp Core Set: I am a big fan of “budgineering” and respect and admire that very real take on technology… The low corridors and maze-like entrance were like a little V’Ger.

That sound design piece as Kirk wakes from the dead. Without any visuals, we had a little symphony of sonic trekisms. Not since the time travel montage in TVH has Trek dared to be so conceptual.

Also: I am quite enjoying the vapid hatred from some “fans” who feel so very betrayed by the people who saved Star Trek, put it back on the cultural map and gave them all something to whine about. Considering the alternative (no Trek at all), they seem pretty logic-challenged. I highly recommend a review of Red Letter Media’s analysis of why Trek 2009 worked. It’s a great pice of crit, and explains branding and the economics of the film industry very well. Odd that folks who dream of the 23rd Century refuse to understand the realities of the 21st.

Thanks, Bob Orci.

370. pock speared - May 18, 2013

sorry ’bout that double post. my core is offline.

371. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Great, descend into personal attacks, as you did to begin with, and now descend further into obscenity.

I have no interest in intimidating you, simply in pointing out the fallacies in your logic.

Which I suspect you’ve found intimidating at other points.

Walter Koenig is of Eastern European descent, like most all Russians I have ever met. He affects a very good Russian accent. Hence, he was a very good choice to play a Russian.

Benedict Cumberbatch … do I really have to explain this?

I’m out of time for this obviousness.

>361. K-7 – May 18, 2013
@357. You don’t intimidate me, jerk. FU, bully.

372. McCoy's#1Fan - May 18, 2013

If I missed this I’m sorry but can anyone tell me why all the national advertisement said opening 5/17 and then it opens 5/16? I saw a news item that called STID’s opening day box office a “muted” 13.5.. is it possible some people did not know it opened on Thursday not Friday?

Also, to Bob Orci: got an idea for you that will make all us McCoy fans happy.. have the next movie end with the classic McCoy line from Journey To Babel… “Well, what do you know, I finally got the last word!”

Everyone would love it and it would give Karl a chance to smile!

373. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

Khan was meant to be Indian in Space Seed. His name, description, Montelbahn’s makeup, etc. all indicate that.

Now, if you just don’t CARE that he’s had a race change, then that’s fine. Say that.

If you follow the theory that he had cosmetic surgery to change his appearance, I actually find that a legitimate explanation.

But don’t go out trying to argue that Khan was actually European to begin with.

374. Mark - May 18, 2013

276-ObsessiveStarTrekFan-

Oh if only I could shake your hand. What you said about Kirks death scene is fantastic, I can’t believe how many people are giving them $hit about or missed the point of it. Kirk and Spock have always had a connection they don’t have with anyone else. Two sides to the same coin. To see them realize it only to be seconds away from losing it was rough. The point of that scene was to cement that bond that will be there always, as opposed to WOK where the tragedy came from them losing a bond they already had. In a very real way those two are soulmates. Now that they are together, one without the other just seems wrong.

Kudos to Bob, JJ and all the other writers. I thought that was a perfect scene. And yes, I DID love crying Spock and the Khan scream :)

375. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

I think Into Darkness will probably do well enough to get a third movie, but it may make them less likely to take chances making it.

376. DiscoSpock - May 18, 2013

Anthony,

Just a note — William Bradley is up to his hi-jinks again here.

377. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Well …

No.

Beside advising a major Russian political party, I’ve also advised a major Mexican political party, as well as the United Farm Workers union in its heyday.

Ricardo Montalban was a Mexican. Some like to think that he was entirely Spanish in ethnicity, and then go on to pretend that Montalban=Cumberbatch, all visual evidence to the contrary ignored.

But it’s not true.

I see much of the usual Spanish/indigenous mix in Montalban.

Who, not at all incidentally, was treated by Hollywood as a Mexican, not as a white European.

But really, folks, the rationalization is absurd on its face. Literally.

>363. K-7 – May 18, 2013
“@360. “Or perhaps Khan had mixed Latin American and Punjabi heritage. Either way, he’s not European.”

You do realize that Latin America was settled by Europeans, with Spain being the heritage of Montelbahn’s particular family, don’t you.

Last time I checked, Spain was in Europe..

So Montelbahn’s heritage is completely European, of course.

378. HubcapDave - May 18, 2013

Re: Box Office

Changing the opening to Thursday really banjaxed things as far as predictions go. Movies just don’t open then, unless there’s a holiday. My thoughts (and hope) is that opening Thursday sucked up a good part of the “fanboy rush”, making the Friday number lower than it would have been. The Saturday estimate will be the telling number.

379. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Yes, call for censorship to avoid the onrushing reality of it all.

Sad.

Didn’t work last time, sure won’t work now as reality dawns.

>370. DiscoSpock – May 18, 2013
Anthony,

Just a note — William Bradley is up to his hi-jinks again here.

380. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Well, the flaws in the film always made that very unlikely.

But there is no need to turn from triumphalism to panic.

A few adjustments here and there and Star Trek, one of the most valuable intellectual properties on the planet, will do just fine.

>358. Joseph Dickerson – May 18, 2013
Just got through a detailed discussion of this on Twitter. If the movie doesn’t hit $100 mil this weekend, the future of Trek in theaters is definitely a question mark.

If it drops 50% next weekend (and it probably will) it may not even hit $200 million domestic… and international BO is good, but not great. And if domestic drops more than 60% next weekend (which I can see happening with Fast and Furious and The Hangover 3 opening and STID losing screens and showtimes) then you have the perception of a “flop” in may people’s minds (especially compared to movies like Iron Man 3).

381. Admiral Archer's Prize Beagle - May 18, 2013

William Bradley,

As someone of Polish descent, I take personal offense to you suggesting that Pols are basically the same as Russians. You have no idea of what you are talking about, and I find your comments borderline racist.

382. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Trolling, and boring.

Hasta la bye bye.

383. Dave H - May 18, 2013

To: Mr. Pascale:

This William Bradley character is attempting to dominate this thread again here today.

384. Mallory - May 18, 2013

Thanks so much for letting Uhura speak Klingon! She knows her $hit and its about time we saw it! Stabbing that Klingon was badass lol

Also another HUGE thanks for keeping the Spock/Uhura thing to a minimum. I was rather hoping they would end it, but if its gonna stick around I’d rather not see too much of it. The fight in the shuttle she started was just so immature, but I did like Spock’s speech to Kirk and her how he feels, but doesn’t want to. Just wish it came around at a better, more appropriate time.

Kirk and Spock together were perfect. To see that legendary duo start working together, Spock being the shadow to Kirk was amazing. Loved the switched WOK death scene. Really touching.

All in all, loved the film!

385. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Total BS, once again.

I’ve said my say.

Go cry in your corner.

>383. Dave H – May 18, 2013
To: Mr. Pascale:

This William Bradley character is attempting to dominate this thread again here today.

386. Curious Cadet - May 18, 2013

@351 LJ,
“Section 31: for me Gene Roddenberry’s vision becomes all the more real when it is challenged”

Interesting comment. Makes me want to go back and look at Roddenberry’s direct involvement in Trek episodes.

It seems to me that TOS episodes in general always painted that the Federation was something pure, that man had gotten beyond its petty differences, and the conflicts they faced were solely from their encounters with other less enlightened beings during their exploration. However, there were still petty bureaucrats, and individuals with an ax to grind within Starfleet, but by and large the larger social conflict came from the outside. Yes Starfleet had its secrets, but otherwise seemed somewhat transparent. Only after the first season of TNG did this seem to change (as we know Roddenberry had nothing to do with the later movies), and internal organizational conspiracy stories began to crop up following Iran Contra and other real-world government coverups.

Now Abrams has an excuse, Nero changed the mindset of a lot of people in the Federation, so the story in STID makes a certain amount of sense. But in general, it seems stories like these, the dangers of the military industrial complex, secret government organizations, etc. were primarily dealt with as allegory. Perhaps that’s one of Star Trek’s charms. If there was an evil government conspiracy, it was depicted as being of another civilizations, and the Enterprise got caught in it, feeling a duty to expose it, if only to save themselves. But the message was clear, without pointing fingers directly at ourselves. Granted making the problems within Starfleet is still allegorical, but it’s a lot closer to home, and taints the overall image of the future I think Roddenberry was trying to preserve.

Anyway thanks for the thought provoking statement …

387. HubcapDave - May 18, 2013

@358

Next weekend is Memorial Day. Regardless of how the opening weekend numbers size out, it won’t drop that much.

Reading some of the sites that prognosticate on these things, they really don’t know what to make of this.

388. Dave H - May 18, 2013

11 out of the most recent 44 posts here today have been made by William Bradley. That is a whopping 25% of all recent posts coming from him today.

389. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

I don’t remember the exact post number, but someone said something along the lines of “you’ll never see a white guy named Jamal Washington”.

I have to disagree, I have met such an individual personally, during a period I spent living in Flint Michigan.

I am, as I have mentioned before, an enrolled* Native American of seriously mixed overall ethnic background. Nonetheless my skin is whiter than Cumberbatch”s, on top of that my name is a mix of Irish and Danish names.

By the “logic” of that earlier post I shouldn’t exist, nevertheless their narrow, bigoted opinions do not prevent me existing, nor have they stopped the existence of persons from India with mixed British and Indian ancestry and caucasian skin tones, and they never will.

*Enrolled is the legal terminology for individuals who have proven to the tribe that they have a sufficiently high percentage of tribal ancestry as required by law to be recognized as members of the tribe. Native Americans are the only ethnicity in the US required to meet such a requirement, as a contrast, 1 percent of African ancestry is legally enough to call oneself “African American” and to mark your ethnicity as such on government (and other) legal forms, while for Native Americans if you fall below one 8th Native ancestry you cannot legally be a part of the tribe, nor legally list your ethnicity as Native American.

Oh, stupid Bradley, Montalban may have been born in Mexico, but his parents were Castilian Spaniards.

390. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Give it a big rest, sport.

I’ve said my say, as I mentioned. Then netwits/childish censor types attack … lol

Let’s see if you have anything of substance to say yourself.

Hasta la bye bye!

>388. Dave H – May 18, 2013
11 out of the most recent 44 posts here today have been made by William Bradley. That is a whopping 25% of all recent posts coming from him today.

391. The River Temoc - May 18, 2013

@368: “You do realize that Latin America was settled by Europeans, with Spain being the heritage of Montelbahn’s particular family, don’t you. Last time I checked, Spain was in Europe.”

First off, you obviously checked well after the end of the Franco era, when Europe was said to end at the Pyrenees. :)

Second — come on. Lartin America may have been settled by Europeans, but (1) they weren’t northern Europeans (Spain was Islamic not long before that settlement began), and (2) more to the point, the Latin-American population is now primarily mestizo. (Yes, there are exceptions, etc.) Which means that at least a Mexican-American actor may more closely resemble someone from the subcontinent than does a northern European.

And again, there’s nothing to say that Khan didn’t have mixed Sikh/Latin American parentage (he was genetically engineered, after all). That was Captain Robau’s backstory from ST09, for instance.

Look, I’d prefer an actor from the subcontinent. But at least Del Toro would have been consistent with what we saw previously.

392. HubcapDave - May 18, 2013

@ 388

The best way to handle him is not to engage him.

393. Dave H - May 18, 2013

Update: now we are at 5 out of the last 10 posts made by William Bradley — putting him at generating 50% of the most very recent posts here.

394. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

You mean to shut the frak up, and not further expose yourself?

Excellent suggestion.

395. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

@Stupid Bradley.

You do realize that Anton Yelchin, the new Chekov you are pissing and moaning so much about, is actually a native Russian speaker, which Koenig never was and never will be. Koenig was (badly) faking an accent he did not have, just like Doohan, I don’t care what anyone says about it, Yelchin’s authentic accent will always beat Koenig’s fake one.

396. JR Durdan - May 18, 2013

Just a few random neurons firing away here,

I liked STID, but a few of the things that were a little grating in ST 2009 came back here in full force and made my enjoyment of the movie less than it could be.

1) Can we do away with Quinto Spock conferring with Nimoy Spock? Is Spock going to call Spoke Prime very time he and the Enterprise get in a jam? I just find it illogical that either Spock would condone that. Stand, or fail, on your own.

2) Was Kirk always a womanizer? Yes. Was he this much of a male sl*t? No. Calm his hormones down a little bit. He gets less and less respect from me because all he seems confident in is chasing tail.

We lose the possibility of Christine Chapel joining the crew because Kirk is a lecherous teenage boy?

3) Transwarp beaming is just silly. Scotty invents it, loses Porthos, then Star Fleet takes the research and locks it us. If TW Beaming was so great, why invest in starships at all? Just Transwarp to anyplace you want to go. Pretty much transwarp beaming invalidates the need for starships to explore with.

4) No problems with KNS being of English roots. By the time we get to Treks century a lot of family heritage will no longer be tired to ethic names. I know this very sexy lady named O’Mally. She’s Asian.

5) The last 20 minutes. Really? Basically it’s ST2WOK just looked at through a mirror? Someone on another board nailed it. It’s like this movie was a piece of good fan fiction, a what if scenario. What if it was Kirk who died at Khan’s hands and not Spock. But really, Spock yelling “KHAAAAAAN”, really?????? I should have seen this coming, if you read the Trek comics, they are usually a retelling of a classic Trek story line in this alternate time line.

6) How about for the next movie an actual new story. Not an Alice through the Looking Glass episode. I remember reading something that Nick Meyer or Harve Bennet said about writing a trek script. The bottom line was the less you knew about trek the better. You create a good, compelling, story, then trim it with the trek mythos. STID was a good story, but I am not sure it was overly compelling.

7) To much done it to little time. Kirk is demoted to First Officer of the Enterprise, then Pike is killed by Khan, then Kirk is reassigned again as the Captain of the Enterprise. It felt way to pat, and way to much like a set piece to make us realize that Kirk isn’t ready to command. Kirk’s characterization in this whole movie just seemed off some how. In 2009 Kirk still felt much like the young brass Kirk from TOS. In this movie that voice is either muted or deflected. As far as Kirk violating the Prime Directive, I think this is also handled weirdly In the TOS time line their is not a lot of wiggle room, if you violated the PD and can’t justify it you are Court Martialed and either expelled from Star Fleet or Jailed. You aren’t sent back to the academy and re-educated. Either Star Fleet takes the PD seriously or they don’t. It would appear that in the alternate time line they don’t.

8) So we now know, for certain, that the only canon Trek Series, is Enterprise. Wow, is that going to make a lot of fan boys cringe. If you want an explanation for that, check out the display of Star Ships behind Admiral Marcus.

9) The final, and perhaps most disturbing indication for this movie. My wife is not a Trek fan, but loved Trek 2009. She did not like STID at all. She didn’t feel invested in any of the characters. TO be honest, as a Trek fan if I hadn’t a relationship with these characters and went into this movie cold, I would probably have to say the same thing.

397. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Yes, for the era of the ’60s, casting a well-known Mexican actor to play an Indian was progressive.

Just as casting an actual African American to play an actual African American leading character was highly progressive.

Folks pretending that Mexican=Spanish=European=English, i.e., Montalban=Cumberbatch are simply in the last stages of whatever the last stages would be.

I won’t call it grief, although it may be subjectively for them, because with a few adjustments the Star Trek movie franchise can do exceptionally well.

>390. The River Temoc – May 18, 2013
@368: “You do realize that Latin America was settled by Europeans, with Spain being the heritage of Montelbahn’s particular family, don’t you. Last time I checked, Spain was in Europe.”

First off, you obviously checked well after the end of the Franco era, when Europe was said to end at the Pyrenees. :)

Second — come on. Lartin America may have been settled by Europeans, but (1) they weren’t northern Europeans (Spain was Islamic not long before that settlement began), and (2) more to the point, the Latin-American population is now primarily mestizo. (Yes, there are exceptions, etc.) Which means that at least a Mexican-American actor may more closely resemble someone from the subcontinent than does a northern European.

And again, there’s nothing to say that Khan didn’t have mixed Sikh/Latin American parentage (he was genetically engineered, after all). That was Captain Robau’s backstory from ST09, for instance.

Look, I’d prefer an actor from the subcontinent. But at least Del Toro would have been consistent with what we saw previously.

398. Curious Cadet - May 18, 2013

@366. Allenburch,
“Wife and I were disappointed to learn that our favorite singleplex theater … was somehow forced by Disney to play Iron Man III instead of Into Darkness. (The manager was upset at the corporate muscle-flexing going on by Disney and preferred to show Star Trek.)”

Interesting, well there’s your explanation about why Disney paid Paramount handsomely to buy them out of their contract with Marvel, if there ever was any doubt.

399. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

If it holds out that the box office is below expectations, I wonder if an of the underlying research the dollars-and-cents folks inevitably do will point to the four-year interval between movies as at least part of the cause?

I was one here who was adamant that they needed to get the next movie out as quickly as practical after the unqualified success of the 09 reboot, but we all know how that went. With four years having elapsed, I can’t help but wonder if a little of that broader excitement just kinda, well, waned some. Just spitballing.

400. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

You lot of thugettes are typical Internet types.

Of course Yelchin is a Russian.

Can you read? I said he’s a Russian. It’s my Russian friends who make fun of his accent.

I don’t attack him at all. Which makes you a liar. My beef is with the Khan nonsense, as you well know.

Go take care of your hangover. I’m very bored with this.

>393. Unwanted – May 18, 2013
@Stupid Bradley.

You do realize that Anton Yelchin, the new Chekov you are pissing and moaning so much about, is actually a native Russian speaker, which Koenig never was and never will be. Koenig was (badly) faking an accent he did not have, just like Doohan, I don’t care what anyone says about it, Yelchin’s authentic accent will always beat Koenig’s fake one.

401. Curious Cadet - May 18, 2013

@377. William Bradley,
“Ricardo Montalban was a Mexican. Some like to think that he was entirely Spanish in ethnicity … I see much of the usual Spanish/indigenous mix in Montalban.”

What do you mean by indigenous? Native Central Americans?

402. Admiral Archer's Prize Beagle - May 18, 2013

William Bradley,

Please stop with your clumsy attempts at addressing race with your blanket statements about cultures you obviously don’t understand. You are embarrassing yourself and offending people here.

403. Alexandr - May 18, 2013

1000 $ on the house!

404. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Says some silly anono type who has never been to Russia or Mexico or …

I leave the field to the netwits who are twisting in the wind in the aftermath of the big disappointment.

>402. Admiral Archer’s Prize Beagle – May 18, 2013
William Bradley,

Please stop with your clumsy attempts at addressing race with your blanket statements about cultures you obviously don’t understand. You are embarrassing yourself and offending people here.

405. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

well, he apparently blogs at the Huffington Post, so what do you expect?

406. pock speared - May 18, 2013

@404 william bradley
you seem upset. and it’s boring.

407. K-7 - May 18, 2013

Hey dumbass bully (i.e. General Bradley):

“Montalbán was born on November 25, 1920, in Mexico City, to Spanish immigrant parents.”

There!!! You are WRONG, jerkweed.

Instead of giving me three paragraphs of your usual shit in response, how about saying: “I WAS WRONG”

Yea, fat chance. I await your ponderous nonsensical response.

408. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Ooh, I am wounded to the quick. A few of your little set is offended by the intrusion of reality.

Especially now, as reality dawns. It’s a little sad.

Instead of flaming the messenger, consider the message. It really can get much worse. (Oh, and do keep trying to pretend that Montalban-Cumberbatch, it’s great grist for the mill …)

>405. Josh C. – May 18, 2013
well, he apparently blogs at the Huffington Post, so what do you expect?

406. pock speared – May 18, 2013
@404 william bradley
you seem upset. and it’s boring.

407. K-7 – May 18, 2013
Hey dumbass bully (i.e. General Bradley):

“Montalbán was born on November 25, 1920, in Mexico City, to Spanish immigrant parents.”

There!!! You are WRONG, jerkweed.

Instead of giving me three paragraphs of your usual shit in response, how about saying: “I WAS WRONG”

Yea, fat chance. I await your ponderous nonsensical response.

409. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

@400. Then I am calling you a liar, who has NO Russian friends at all, and is simply making things up without even the flimsiest basis in fact behind them.

I’m done with this sh-t again, anyone else wanna kick this losers nutbag around for a while?

410. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Incidentally, moderator, what sort of web site are you running in which you allow people to indulge in obscene name calling and gang behavior?

It doesn’t speak well looking ahead.

411. AyanEva - May 18, 2013

Well, my dad loved the movie! Like me, he liked it better than the 2009 film. Everyone in the theater enjoyed the film and the kid behind me was trying to convince his dad to stay and watch it a second time. Decent crowd for a matinee in my neighborhood of the city. They are using a smaller theater from the one originally assigned because it’s not selling as much per show as they thought it would. Slightly concerning but that happened last time too so I’m not overly concerned since it’s normal for my particular theater. Theater boss said the change in opening night confused a lot of people so fewer people came Thursday than anticipated because they thought it opened later. It will be hard to figure out final numbers until Monday, I think. My completely unsubstantiated guess is that the extended opening combined with fan sneak openings seems to have spread out the crowd over five days, rather than increase it by much more than last time.

I found that I like the movie better each time I watch it. I still think it feels more like Star Trek than the last film did. I have to wonder if that won’t end up hurting the box office. We just can’t win! :/

412. Anthony Pascale - May 18, 2013

Bradley final warning for spamming
K-7 warning for flaming

Everyone calm down and stop with the personal sniping

413. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Typical witless anono Internet thugette behavior.

Free from all rationality, from behind your keyboard. How novel.

>409. Unwanted – May 18, 2013
@400. Then I am calling you a liar, who has NO Russian friends at all, and is simply making things up without even the flimsiest basis in fact behind them.

I’m done with this sh-t again, anyone else wanna kick this losers nutbag around for a while?

414. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

K-7,

Actually, I remember Montalban talking about his Spanish parents in an interview years ago.

In regarding the troll here who I no longer will address directly, one has to wonder about someone who just makes things up as they go along? I mean, come on, this is an easy fact to check. Why do people feel the need to make stuff up like this?

415. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Kindly advise what “spamming” is involved.

For the record.

416. Red Dead Ryan - May 18, 2013

Well, “Star Trek Into Darkness” has a week to rake in as much dough as it can as “Fast & Furious 6″ parks into theatres next week. That movie has a lot of hype going for it, as the “Fast Five”, the previous installment, was the most successful and popular of the series.

I am quite looking forward to F&F 6. In fact, in some ways I’ve been anticipating it as much as STID. The F&F series has only gotten bigger and better between the first and the fifth movies, with the sixth film promising to continue that trend.

417. GG - May 18, 2013

Khan’s ethnicity. It was certainly (at least) “implied” in Space Seed that Khan was Indian. But, now that I think about it, he really seemed more caucasian in Wrath Of Khan (he wasn’t tan like he was in Space Seed, there was no reference to his background other than he was a “Prince” at one point). So, I don’t know how iron-clad it was that he had to be Indian. I don’t know if they ever outright said that in the original series.

Now, the engine room LOL Is it just me, or did the warp reactor that Kirk crawled into look a lot like the inside of the Death Star from ROTJ? LOL Oh, JJ And, Scotty’s little partner, is obviously R2D2.

The Dreadnaught (Vengeance). Not sure how I feel about it. You could see absolutely NO detail on the ship. Even when it was crashing into the bay in broad daylight, you still couldn’t tell what it looked like at all. I didn’t like that. Also, what was with that “buzzing” sound the Vengeance was making when it was overtaking the Enterprise at warp? It was definitely spooky, but also odd to me for some reason.

418. TUP - May 18, 2013

What is William Bradley’s problem?

If you did not enjoy the movie, fine. if you do not buy BC as Khan, fine. But you don’t have to single-handedly change the opinions of everyone else.

Also, listing your resume is foolish and the act of a desperate person. get a grip.

I had a big problem with BC playing Khan *before* I saw the movie. As it is, I’d have loved the end of the film to prove Harrison was lying all along and was actually Joachim. But BC’s performance is such that I am fine with it.

Does this mean an Indian has been retconned as a Brit? I don’t know. Maybe BC was playing a indian ten years older. I can suspend my disbelief and accept the tremendous performance.

If you cant thats your problem.

419. Ben Harmer - May 18, 2013

In advance, sorry for the long post. I can get sort of detailed.

For those concerned about current/forecast Box Office totals, I wouldn’t worry yet. I truly think we may be looking at a situation where some of the people who would have went on Friday went on Thursday (which accounts for the lower Friday) or the midnight/imax on Wednesday..

Today’s gross will be very telling. I could be totally wrong about this but I don’t think it’s going to make less than last time for the Sat/Sun totals and ought to make more with the word of mouth it’s bound to get. Fact is regardless of how many days it took it, STID is ahead of ST09 by 5 million by comparison to the same point.

IMO STID is on a similar track as its predecessor and if I am right should have an additional take of 27-32 million for today. That would put it around 67 million going into tomorrow. I suspect it would then make around 22-27 million Sunday for a best case total of 94 million for the 4 days. 94 million is certainly not as doom and gloom as people forecast, albeit a bit shy of the 100 million people initially thought. I suspect it should do no worse than 84 million (which is in line with most predictions right now).

Again, this is all going to depend on whether my theory of Wednesday/Thursday taking a lot Friday’s Gross away is correct. I hope and suspect that it is. We shall likely see tomorrow if/when they release the estimates for today’s take. Even if it only ends up around 84 million that is still ahead of the first one by 5 million. I seriously doubt it’s going to be at the low end though.

420. Admiral Archer's Prize Beagle - May 18, 2013

@415. In you case, it means get out your trailer for a few hours and maybe head down to the K-Mart paking lot to burn off some steam — have your smokes and bud six pack to calm down. :-)

421. Thorny - May 18, 2013

I would just like to add that I think “Star Trek: Dreadnought” would have been a better title of the movie. “Star Trek: Vengeance” would have been pretty good, too. “Into Darkness” really didn’t describe this movie, as Star Trek 2009 was already plenty dark with Romulus, Vulcan, Kirk’s father and Spock’s mother all buying the farm. This movie was “Star Trek: It’s Already Dark and Now We’re Looking Around Some”.

422. WicketSC - May 18, 2013

I am not going to write a 2,000 word epistle to say, I loved the movie. Can not wait for the next one. I appreciate the work boborci, JJ and the gang put into their craft..

423. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

420 – exactly what type of smokes are you advocating for, Mr. post 420 haha

424. Captain Rickover - May 18, 2013

Perhaps Khan got treatment to alter his appearence after awoken by Admiral Marcus. I mean, an top-agent runng around with the face of a tyrant of the late 20th century? Come on, of course Section 31 must have altered Khans appearence. Just logical.

BTW: Bob, I enjoyed this movie.

425. GG - May 18, 2013

Also, loved Nimoy, BUT.. not sure what “young Spock” got out of the conversation. His last question to Spock Prime was, “HOW did you defeat him?” We never heard the answer. And, I’m not sure what young Spock did after that conversation that would have qualified. What did young Spock take away from that conversation that helped him defeat Khan? I didn’t really notice anything relevant.

426. Red Dead Ryan - May 18, 2013

I can’t stand this William Bradley guy. He likes to bully people around. Plus all of his posts are stupid. Nothing intelligent to say whatsoever.

More like Milton Bradley. We’re bored of his games.

427. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Calming down would be advisable for you.

Along with saving the cheap flames for another, less thoughtful site which does not delete them …

>420. Admiral Archer’s Prize Beagle – May 18, 2013
@415. In you case, it means get out your trailer for a few hours and maybe head down to the K-Mart paking lot to burn off some steam — have your smokes and bud six pack to calm down. :-)

428. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Look, STID is not going to do as well as we had all hoped. This is not entirely a surprise, though more so for some than others.

There is no need for hysteria, as with a few adjustments here and there, Star Trek, one of the most valuable intellectual properties in the world — one which puts the “Fast” franchise in the shade, by far — will be just fine.

Incidentally, I saw Fast Five, after missing the last few, liked it, but have no interest in 6/7.

>416. Red Dead Ryan – May 18, 2013
Well, “Star Trek Into Darkness” has a week to rake in as much dough as it can as “Fast & Furious 6″ parks into theatres next week. That movie has a lot of hype going for it, as the “Fast Five”, the previous installment, was the most successful and popular of the series.

I am quite looking forward to F&F 6. In fact, in some ways I’ve been anticipating it as much as STID. The F&F series has only gotten bigger and better between the first and the fifth movies, with the sixth film promising to continue that trend.

429. Hugh Hoyland - May 18, 2013

@419

I think you may be right about those numbers. For some reason I keep having this idea that Paramount had it at or around those numbers originally a week or so ago before they upped the prediction (again might be wrong on that point) and that seemed a bit more realistic to me. I honestly think this movie is going to do great at the BO and will almost certainly be the most financially successful Star Trek to date given the foreign market. We’ll see!

I’m going to go again tommorow, STID rocks IMO! :]

430. TUP - May 18, 2013

Sold out all over around here. Not worried.

431. dmduncan - May 18, 2013

One big surprise for me was how good Peter Weller was. He didn’t get much attention during the buildup so he was under the radar. But as a Cheny-esque douchebag trying to provoke war through some variant false flag operation, he was the sort of nut whose existence doesn’t get a lot of press.

I need to see it again but I won’t be able to until next weekend. Like the first film there was so much going on that it’s going to take me a few viewings to get all of it inside my head.

But there were so many precious character moments and great pieces of dialogue, and a chance for every character to have an individual moment to shine that admiration is due for what they managed to accomplish.

Also, putting aside the casting decision and BCs interpretation, and evaluating the CHARACTER of Khan in STID, this is actually the best WRITTEN version of the character we have. I’d always felt that Khan was too one dimensional. Montalban elevated the character with his excellent rendition in Space Seed, and then again in what I felt was a waste of the character in TWOK when Nicholas Meyer turned him into a raging madman. But here the writers have conceived Khan as a man on an understandable mission to save his family. Of course the “and then what?” part gives us cause for concern, but Khan here is no psychopath. He cares about his people and saving that family from the people who awoke him and turned him into a workhorse—rather than ruling the universe—is what drives him here. Despite the continuity of Spock Prime’s opinion of Khan from the prime universe—an opinion that Kirk, McCoy and Scotty disputed—he’s motivated here by a primal emotion that any person can understand, and that makes the character not just more real to us, but it leaves him with the same sort of diginity he kept in Space Seed and that was stripped from him in TWOK.

432. Hugh Hoyland - May 18, 2013

I thought I was right about an original prediction of around 85 Mil opening for STID. This is an artical from April 25.

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/star-trek-sequel-tracking-for-85-million-debut-in-the-u-s-1200415972/

Although I would love for it to be something around 100+mil that number seemed more realisitic to me.

433. CsMisi - May 18, 2013

@boborci what is the box office number for you to be considered a success? And what about your statement about a year ago that a successful ST:ID might open a way for a new series: is that still on table?

434. Trek Tech - May 18, 2013

Im going to eat a little crow here (not a lot, mind you, but some). A producer friend of mine invited me to go see the movie in IMAX 3D last night in Burbank and I obliged.
As a lifelong Trekker (the same age as the franchise) I still have major issues with this rebooted universe. Right off the bat, how is that Spock is better shielded from the heat than either the shuttle or the Enterprise???? How in the world does that make any sense? Submerged Enterprise felt gimmicky and NOT organic. “Hey, wouldnt it be cool if we showed the Enterprise underwater?” “Yeah, now figure out a way to shoe horn that in to the script”.
I still feel that much the NuTrek writing is gone about in this way; the fellas get together and pitch cool looking off the wall visuals than try to justify them by writing scenes AROUND them. It makes for a visually exciting experience but this writing style paints itself inevitably in to corners it cant justify its way out of.
Transwarp beaming is a good example. This one is going to be a problem. Who even NEEDS starships anymore? Lets just beam across the galaxy. Hell, we dont need a ship to go after Khan lets just do what HE did and beam after him.
Also, having to write scenes for this movie that justify questionable writing decisions in the previous installment (Cadet to Captain). That wasnt organic. It was bad writing that had to be made to feel like it was actually going to be a plot point in the then as yet unwritten sequel.The fact that the story point in the sequel had Kirk demoted for all of 5 minutes made it feel even more like the writing team was throwing that in as a ‘mea culpa’ ‘You guys were right, theres no way a Cadet would be made the Captain of a flagship so we’re demoting him and sending back to the Academy…ooops, never mind…youre the Captain again.”. You cant really apologize for bad writing decisions in a movie but this is the closest Ive seen. Now…moving on.
The Spock Prime cameo felt completely gratuitous and (note to make up department) somebody give Quinto some damn earlobes! Something was off about Quintos ears in this movie. The ear make up looked ‘wrong’ and then having Spock Prime on the screen at the same time the ear lobe issue was even more noticeable (sounds silly I know but Spocks ears really bugged me in this outing).
NuTrek is Summer popcorn material. Enjoyable to be sure but lets not lose sight of what Trek is. Many people go to movies or watch TV to turn their brains off. I have always loved Trek because of how it turned my brain ON. Thats why it worked as a TV SERIES much better than it will ever work on the big screen. Star Trek was designed to be weekly parables…hour long morality plays that dealt with important issues in a sci fi context. Thats what Star Trek is supposed to be. Star Wars is the mythic heros quest. The mythology. Thats ITS appeal. When Star Trek tried to go big screen initially with TMP and a budget it failed because it lost site of what it was in the pursuit of the AWE factor. These are my main gripes.
Now to the crow…
I ENJOYED this movie. There, I said it. I thought the actors nailed it. I really dont like JJs version of the Enterprise (I abhor it actually) but that being said I STILL enjoyed this movie.
I will say I thoroughly enjoyed Cumberbatch but I did NOT see him as KHAN. I never once felt like I was watching Khan Noonian Singh. I am one of those who felt like I was watching Joaquin POSING as Khan to PROTECT him. Harrison acted like a zealot and I really felt like I was watching more of a dedicated FOLLOWER than a charismatic LEADER. There was nothing about Cumbys performance (as good as it was) that resembled KHAN either in mannerisms, appearance or character. Again. loved him as HARRISON but lets be honest here there was nothing that said he was Khan other than the script.
I also enjoyed the rest of the casts performances without exception and part of the problem with Kirk is he seems more like the captain of the football team than the captain of a starship. He has no military bearing. Hopefully that immaturity and arrogance will transform in to the Kirk we know wherein the humor was more subtle and the brashness more contained. Id like to see a wiser Kirk in the next outing.
The Klingons. Loved them for what little we saw. THESE klingons are scary and dont play. There was real menace to them and they are growing on me quickly. Interesting to note that Praxis blew up ahead of schedule and MAY explain the new helmets. The Klingons were fierce and capable. Im digging them.
This isnt freaking Star Wars though and we dont need the Star Wars-esque parade of generic aliens. Bring back and use the classics. JJVerse already seems over populated and they havent even really begun exploring yet. THIS ISNT STAR WARS and all of these Aliens feel like leftovers from the Cantina Scene.
LOVED the score. Loved the new warp effect (was reminiscent of ANDROMEDA). Loved the SCOPE of the film and the pacing and the ENERGY. I will see it at least once more to see if there are other things (positive and negative) I can glean from it. Like I said, Im eating a LITTLE crow.

PS @Bob Orci. Why didnt they just do a Saucer Separation at the end? If they WERENT going to do it they shouldve at least said WHY they couldnt. I honestly thought that was what was going to happen.

435. Captain Dunsel - May 18, 2013

One more personal irritation. What is it in Star Trek that says that once a person becomes a Star Fleet admiral, they turn to the dark side (to mix sci-fi metaphors)? Has it become impossible to find a way to justify villainy without using the angle of treason?

And I am among those that would say it is okay to disagree and it can be done without turning ourselves into Anticans and Sellies. I was very disappointed by this film for reasons listed over 200 posts ago. But I still want it to succeed. I want the franchise to live on because I remember how good STVI was in the wake of STV. There are always possibilities, after all.

436. Unwanted - May 18, 2013

@MJ. Notice how this individual, who I now join K-7 in no longer responding, to won’t respond to the points I made about persons of mixed ethnicity, or that Montalban’s parents were Spanish immigrants to Mexico and he is flatly NOT of mixed ethnicity, since BOTH of his parents were Castillian Spanish, neither of them belonged to any other ethnicity.

He ignores any real facts presented to him, and continues his bullcrap tirade, despite continually mounting evidence of just how wrong he was. When he has nothing else he falls back on calling others thugs, simply because they won’t tolerate his bs.

Anthony I apologize if this post is burning a bit, and I mean no disrespect to you by posting it, I will now be taking a few days off from commenting so as not to get myself banned, as I most certainly will if I keep arguing with this… person.

437. DeflectorDishGuy - May 18, 2013

I just don’t understand why these big Hillywoood producers can’t seem to come up with a single ORIGINAL idea anymore… Rehashing KHAN?? Disappointing…

Made worse by the pedestrian script, awful one liners, and a bunch of clever little Easter eggs to try and appease dedicated fans. Was it better than 2009? Absolutely. Do I like the cast? Very much so. The premise of an alternate reality is intriguing.

Because of that, lets come up with something a bit more creative than just mimicking The Wrath of Khan.

438. Phil - May 18, 2013

As I expect to be doing for the next few weeks, I’ll tip my hat to the folks who predicted Khan. Good guess, MJ, wherever you are….

Now, I want my moment in the sun as well – I was not a supporter of the Khan decision for several reasons. Among them, that it would take a superb writing effort to avoid having the character descend into fan service or parody. Considering that the box office numbers are shaping up to be a disappointment, you can’t say you weren’t warned….

439. Killamarshtrek - May 18, 2013

Hey everyone. Calm down, calm down!

If you’re feeling a little let down about the film as I was, go take a look at Iron Man 3. In every way STID is LIGHT YEARS ahead of that shallow, superficial nonsense! Go on do it, it’ll make you feel a whole lot better!!

440. Tonys used Tibbles - May 18, 2013

Perhaps for the next film, it is time to get the original cast back together for a remake of “The Deadly Years” ?

441. Craiger - May 18, 2013

Anyone see the nod to Enterprise in Weller’s office with the NX-01 model?

442. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

@436 / Unwanted: “@MJ. Notice how this individual, who I now join K-7 in no longer responding, to won’t respond to the points I made about persons of mixed ethnicity, or that Montalban’s parents were Spanish immigrants to Mexico and he is flatly NOT of mixed ethnicity, since BOTH of his parents were Castillian Spanish, neither of them belonged to any other ethnicity. He ignores any real facts presented to him, and continues his bullcrap tirade, despite continually mounting evidence of just how wrong he was. When he has nothing else he falls back on calling others thugs, simply because they won’t tolerate his bs.”

Well said. I choose to no longer have direct discourse with this troll — I say, don’t feed the clown! Because the only think worse that a boorish clown, is an angry fat clown. Or, as Mr. Spock once said:

“V’ger is a child. I suggest we treat him as such.”

I predict that this dude will eventually implode, which will result in Anthony banning him.

Anyway, keep your chin up and don’t let him drag you into his gutter.

443. 750 Mang - May 18, 2013

The question is are the writers stupid or do they think we’re stupid?

444. Joey Mc1701 - May 18, 2013

I’ll keep it short and simple. As a 47 year old who’s watched Trek since in diapers, I LOVED this movie.

445. Ahmed - May 18, 2013

@ 443. 750 Mang – May 18, 2013

“The question is are the writers stupid or do they think we’re stupid?”

The writers are not stupid but they might be thinking that the fans & the public are stupid & will take any story they come up with even if it was a crappy story.

446. GG - May 18, 2013

This movie was well done, considering the risks involved with the plot & Khan, etc.

Now, that being said, I agree, that while Cumberbatch gave a GREAT performance, I didn’t feel like I was watching the character of Khan (But, then again, I suppose no more, or less, than I see Shatner, Nimoy & Co. come through in the other actors, either). But, since they paralleled/reversed the Kirk/Spock death scene, I would have loved to see this at the end.. as they put “Khan” back to sleep in his cyro-tube at the end, they should have panned over to another cryo-tube, to show some mysterious “other face” through the frosted glass of a different tube (like, Spock’s tube laying on the Genesis planet at the end of TWOK. They could have left it open that it was never “Khan’s tube” to begin with in Into Darkness, by showing some other person’s cryo-tube.. or, even an EMPTY one!).

447. Red Dead Ryan - May 18, 2013

#443.

“The question is are the writers stupid or do they think we’re stupid?”

Seriously, what a stupid question. Look in the mirror, pal.

448. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

Phil, I think the international numbers are going to be huge this time around. So don’t get too hung up if the movie only starts with $80M this weekend.

449. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Tick tock.

Very pleasant day today.

>442. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) – May 18, 2013
@436 / Unwanted:

I predict that this dude will eventually implode, which will result in Anthony banning him.

Anyway, keep your chin up and don’t let him drag you into his gutter.

450. GG - May 18, 2013

Oh, and one other question.. just how, exactly, does one “confiscate” a trans-warp beaming equation?? I suppose they could “classify” it, but.. confiscate it??

451. Mcflycat - May 18, 2013

449:

YES!!!

452. Red Dead Ryan - May 18, 2013

#449.

Why are you still here? I thought you said you were done with this thread?

“Hasta Bye Bye”?

453. DiscoSpock - May 18, 2013

Hail, hail, fire and snow
Call the General
We will go
Far away, for to see
Friendly Bradley, come to me.

:-)

454. Phil - May 18, 2013

@448. Oh, the movie is going to make money, that I’m not to concerned about. Two things will drive the decision to greenlight the third installment – was foreign box office sufficient to authorize another movie, and can they correct the criticisms about to much fan service to avoid isolating the domestic audience any further?

Disclosure – have not seen the movie yet, but been reading enough spoilers and reviews to have a good idea what is going on….

455. Steve Gennarelli - May 18, 2013

I’m 48 and have been enjoying “Star Trek” at the movies for 33 years now..hard to believe it.
I went to the movie today with my wife with no expectations other than to be entertained and to hope the film lived up to the great Legacy of the original “Star Trek”.
In my opinion, I thought it was an excellent film. I grew up on the “talkie” Star Trek movies that had very little action but tons of dialogue and acting. Yes, I wish those days could come back and I wish Shatner, Nimoy & Kelley were still the stars, but we know that’s not possible.
JJ, Orci & Kurtzman have put their spin on the series and have modernized it to make it more marketable and attractive to young people who want to see action and excitement. In that regard, I think the movie was a non stop thrill ride.
I think the film was at its best in moments like when Kirk, Spock and Uhura were having that dialogue while going to that planet (Not to spoil anything)..those character driven moments is what interested me.
I thought Cumberbatch was superb and I liked the contibutions of Bruce Greenwood as Pike and Peter Weller as the Admiral.
The visuals were supremely impressive.
I hope the inevitable “Star Trek 3″ for our 50th anniversary 3 years from now has more of everything. I personally would like to see a “Mirror Mirror” redux…along with cameos from Shatner, Nimoy, Takei and Co..

456. whatyoudonotknowandmustnowbetold - May 18, 2013

Timncc1701

Good points. I am one of the “old time” fans who has embraced the the J.J.-verse. Just not J.J. himself. I thought this film more than worked as a Star Trek story and as an entertaining movie. I felt that it was totally character driven, which is why the J.J. -verse works for me, as did the original series. I LOVE THESE CHARACTERS.

457. whatyoudonotknowandmustnowbetold - May 18, 2013

Steve Gennarelli

We are the same age and, seemingly, of the same mind.

458. Jay Pierce - May 18, 2013

I saw in in IMAX. I thought that it was better than the first one. Should have known it was Khan. Nice cameo by Nimoy. I had heard that Kirk was to be demoted, but didn’t last long. Nice easter eggs, especially about Chapel. Can’t wait to see what they do for the 3rd one.

459. Disinvited - May 18, 2013

#70. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) – May 17, 2013

You are welcome. Sorry I missed your reply originally but at least my not aborted research reminds us:

“Red Dead Ryan should be commended on identifying STID as related to Khan nearly two years ago when others laughed at him/us.” – MJ

So I hope you join me in giving much due congratulations to RDR now. Way to go, Red!

460. Red Dead Ryan - May 18, 2013

#459.

Thanks, Disinvited! Much appreciated, friend! :-)

461. Craiger - May 18, 2013

I wonder what JJ was like when Khan was leaked same with those photos of Spock and Khan fighting on those moving platforms or garbage scows?

462. Curious Cadet - May 18, 2013

@433. CsMisi,
“And what about your statement about a year ago that a successful ST:ID might open a way for a new series: is that still on table?”

Sadly that appears to be very unlikely, especially since Abrams has moved on to Star Wars. It looks like CBS is going to make developing a series very unattractive for anyone who might want to take over the franchise, if this TheWrap article is to be taken seriously …

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/article/how-web-star-trek-rights-killed-jj-abrams-grand-ambitions-91766

463. Kirk1701 - May 18, 2013

Did anyone else notice Pine’s Shatner nod, “You? Happy?” It was spot-on.

464. Craiger - May 18, 2013

Fast and Furious 6 is also coming out Memorial Day.

465. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

@462 That article is nothing less than depressing. Incredibly depressing.

How incredibly short-sighted for CBS to hamstring the potential for Trek back on TV and in the various platforms Abrams envisioned. Geez….

466. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

So JJ and company wanted to have CBS stop making products featuring the Original Series cast, which is merely the wellspring of all Star Trek.

That seems rather short-sighted, though certainly in line with JJ and company wanting to maximize their own take.

Considering that Shatner may well get money from the sales of his images, we may just have found another reason for the not entirely copacetic relationship between him and Abrams.

>TheWrap has learned that Bad Robot asked CBS to stop making products featuring the original cast, but talks broke down over money. The network was making roughly $20 million a year on that merchandise and had no incentive to play nice with its former corporate brother, the individual said.

467. LizardGirl - May 18, 2013

After reading through nearly 450 comments, I’ve noticed that some didn’t get the morality factor in this movie. Well, I got that right away.

It’s not about the prevention of tragedy, but what we do after tragedy. How does it change us and our decisions afterwards. I cannot emotionally connect this to 911 because I was too young to understand what was happening. But I have made an emotional connection between this story and a lot of the senselessness we see in the news today: bombings and shootings that leave a paths of emotional and psychological destruction.

It can happen anywhere, on a beautifuly sunny day even. How would you respond to this if it directly affected you and your familly? Do you change your core values and principles to fit an agenda of revenge? Does it eat you away from the inside until there’s nothing left (like with Khan)? This is what happens in STID. Kirk lost the only person who was able to see what he could become, not what he was. Retribution was definitely the motivating factor behind his driving need to be a part of the manhunt.

But Kirk had his crew behind him, constantly reminding him of the person he really is: someone who does the right thing, regardless of protocol or orders. He was ordered by a superior to do the wrong thing. Had he followed those orders he would’ve prevented justice for ALL the affected. It would’ve provided only a selfish, fleeting sense of justification. And Kirk wouldn’t have been happy with that.

********
What I like about Kirk in this movie is that the changes in him are subtle enough that you can’t quite grasp the importance of them. You have to think over it a bit.

In the bar scene with Pike:

When he hears that Pike was once again Captain of the Enterprise, Kirk could barely force out a congratulations.

Argument with Spock:

Kirk candidly tells Spock that he doesn’t know what he’s (himself) is supposed to do. That (very loosely paraphrased) the Enterprise and crew need someone like Spock. He (Kirk) doesn’t belong in the chair, Spock does.

The contrast shown in these scenes are subtle indicators of his evolving maturity. His refusal to turn over Khan to certain death without trail, his begging (yes, J.T. Kirk begging) Admiral Marcus for the safety of his crew and his subsequent sacrifice are a couple of the more blatant displays. It doesn’t matter that he was brought back to life. What matters is that he was willing to do it in the first place!

That’ll do it for me tonight, guys. I will try to keep up on reading comments over the next few days. But I’m done for now. Ciao.

468. LizardGirl - May 18, 2013

Wow, my spelling sucks!

469. Jack Jack - May 18, 2013

@BOBORCI

I wanted to thank you for writing what was for me an amazing film. You guys did a wonderful job. I have loved these characters since I was a kid and seeing them again is like Christmas for me. The ‘death’ of kirk scence was very emotional and powerful to watch. I appreciated the homage you paid to WOK. I got what you guys were doing.

I still to this day when I have down time throw in an episode of the original series that I love. This was by far the best Star Trek Film ever made in my opinion. It preserved the essence of Trek and gave a nod to cool cencepts and ideas established in other Trek series. You threw in the Kentha Province which is the birthplace of General Martok from DS9. Section 31!! The Klingon Moon Praxis!!!! A lot of cool nods (Hey for future reference if the Klingon War is your next tale, Michael Dorn has to be Klingon Chancellor Colonel Worf (instead of Gorkon hey it is an alternate reality), the grandfather of Worf from Next Gen. That would be mad cool!!! He is available Bob! Better yet, you need to bump up that encounter with General Chang. I could see Michael Fasbender as Chang.

Thanks man. Despite all the critics and naysayers, I boldly say that you guys do get it about Trek and thanks for keeping Nimoy in as the thread between both universes. Thanks for helping me to forget my issues and my problems. I loved it. Thank you for an amazing film. Your interpretation of Khan was very cool. I can’t say enough. Thanks you sir for a great film that any Trek fan should be proud of. Ignore the haters and critics. They hated it before they even saw it. Thanks Bob.

470. Ahmed - May 18, 2013

@469. Jack Jack

“I can’t say enough. Thanks you sir for a great film that any Trek fan should be proud of. Ignore the haters and critics. They hated it before they even saw it. Thanks Bob.”

So in your universe; writers should listen ONLY to the a$$kissers & the ones who admire their works and to ignore any critics and “haters”.
Guess you never heard of “objective criticism” !!! Way to go dude

471. Riker001 - May 18, 2013

Just got back from seeing it in 3D….first my thought is…GREAT MOVIE. Second…I don’t think it’s worth seeing in 3D…I did not see anything all that awe inspiring with it…I think it’ll be fine just seeing it in a regular theater.

Alot of folks seem to be up in arms about John Harrison…I thought how this was mapped out was very well done. I also think the part where…I’ll say where I’ve heard more gripe about the scene with the reactor core…was also well done. It is not word for word as it has been stated.

BC was fantastic…and I hope we will see him in the future…not in the next movie…but maybe a few down the road.

If I had any issue…it’s this:

The movie is very fast paced…but it’s fine to follow along…I think they could have added maybe 20-30 more minutes for more Kahn time…more to get a feeling why Kirk is after him so much…I would have liked to have seen more struggle and thought with the characters…more pain from Kirk struggling to keep things in check even though Pike is gone. I would have also like to have seen Kirk and Kahn banter more…I think that would have added more to the reason as to the relationship with Kirk and Kahn.

Considering how fast the movie went by…I don’t think adding additional time for more story telling would not have been an issue.

Other than that…a well done and thought out movie…I will see it again and looking forward to the next..!

472. Jack Jack - May 18, 2013

@Ahmed

Dude I have opinion. Correct me if I am wrong but I am entitled to one? A lot of fans and obviously you are One go out of their way to find fault with everything and a lot of opinion is formed before they even see a reel of a film.

Yeah ignore people who assume and take your ideas and twist them or exaggerate your comments. They made what I think was a perfect Trek movie. I could care less whether you agree or not.

Objective criticism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no such thing. My statement was based on my opinion. I was not speaking for anyone else. Orci and Kurtzman have gotten a lot of Sh#t from Trek purists and I disagree with a majority of them. Orci and Kurtzman as far as I am concerned have shown great care in their handling of Star Trek. Yeah they need to ignore message board morons and create the best film they can. The beautiful thing about the films that wrote for Trek is that they had an opportunity to step back see all the mis fires in the past and do something great.

I have an opinion dude. Could care less whether you agree or not. Grow up.

473. Riker001 - May 18, 2013

Oh…one more thing I didn’t like…Spock Prime…simply not needed…

474. John from Cincinati - May 18, 2013

Okay, saw the movie and here are my thoughts…

Very impressed with Chris Pine as Kirk.
Happy Scotty in this movie is more like TOS Scotty
Like the new twists on classic characters and villains.
Really enjoyed Alice Eve as Carol Marcus.
Prime Spock was not unnecessary, it was a surprising treat for us old-school Trekkers and helped nuSpock understand who they were up against.

Don’t like the Khan magic blood. By leaving him alive and in stasis only opens the door to having Starfleet clone his blood and now no one will die.
Once again the Enterprise takes a helluva beating.
Two movies in the JJverse. Two movies with terrorist themes. Two movies with big black ships opposing the Enterprise. Two movies where San Francisco gets attacked. Hope the next movie moves away from those plot points.
I don’t buy a transwarp device that can teleport Khan from Earth to Kronos. Kind of makes Starships obsolete.
The Klingon homeworld should’ve had much more defenses. I like the idea if Kirk et al disguised themselves aboard a trading vessel piloted by Harry Mudd. That would’ve been more interesting.

475. starbase Britain - May 18, 2013

I havnt seen the film yet but will see it in next couple of days. Im not bothered about spoilers so hence im on here. I personally am dissapointed that they appear to have revisited the ‘Khan’ character if its true.

I wanted that left alone and a new ‘threat’ or entity challenging our heroes and our world. will still see it though.

figures sound dissapointing also but perhaps 4 years was too long and the momentum of the first film was lost a bit.

Greg
United Kingdom

476. Phobos in Montreal - May 18, 2013

Just got back from Star Trek. Had a fun time! :-)
A lot of very intense moments. I could not hold back and had to cry during the death scene.

Had to settle for the 2nd best screen UltraAVX as the IMAX 3D was sold out.

477. matt - May 18, 2013

I watched STID in Australia in Imax 3D, I have a feeling that the movie I watched started diiferently . In my version the movie started with kirk and Mc Coy running away from the aliens on the strange planet.
I swore I read something that the movie started in a hospital waking up to alarm and we saw the John Harrison character. In the version I saw that happened after the volcano scene.

478. AyanEva - May 18, 2013

#477 matt-

They changed it around from the press screening. All of the versions start with the Nibiru scene now.

479. somethoughts - May 18, 2013

Question boborci; i did not hear the following lines from the film, you think your world is safe…you are a pawn kirk…

Which scenes would these lines have been used in?

I also enjoyed kirks death scene as it relates back to st09 having what spock said about a captain cannot cheat death and the purpose of the test is to face fear in the face of certain death to control that fear is a quality of a starfleet captain. Kirk knows going into the reactor would get him killed, he earns his captain rank by showing us he has that quality and has grown up to be the captain kirk, pike and all of us knows he can be.

Very deep writing and thanks again for a wonderful job, worth the wait and will see it again many times in the theatre and on bluray etc

480. John from Cincinnati - May 18, 2013

I read the DC Fontana interview on startrek.com. I think it’s interesting that she said she hasn’t seen a Star Trek movie since Part VI The Undiscovered Country. I wonder if that is out of loyalty?

481. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

@480

I won’t swear to this, but I think I remember reading that there was some bad blood between some of the TOS-era writers such as D.C. Fontana and the TNG producers, creative disagreements. If I can google up something on that I’ll post.

482. Ahmed - May 18, 2013

@ 472. Jack Jack

“Dude I have opinion. Correct me if I am wrong but I am entitled to one? A lot of fans and obviously you are One go out of their way to find fault with everything and a lot of opinion is formed before they even see a reel of a film.”

First, of course everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Second, I think many fans that didn’t like the movie; like me, formed their opinions AFTER watching the movie and not before.

I went to see the movie with an open mind, hell, I was excited about it & was waiting to see what they will offer. Clearly I didn’t like it as much as the others & that is my personal opinion.

“Orci and Kurtzman as far as I am concerned have shown great care in their handling of Star Trek. Yeah they need to ignore message board morons and create the best film they can.”

And here I disagree with you, a writer or producer should listen to not only people who praise the movie but also the ones who criticize it. They do that for a very simple reason, no one is perfect, that why they have 360 reviews.

483. New Horizon - May 18, 2013

I just got back from seeing Into Darkness.

I enjoyed it as a special effects spectacle, but overall I feel extremely let down.

I’m happy to overlook the rather fast and loose approach to science, but what I can’t overlook is….

Khan.

There was no need to do this. Maybe it seemed like a great idea to turn an original story on it’s ear like that…having Khan be discovered by someone else, and maybe it could have worked had there not been so many ‘on the nose’ ahem…”homages”.

Never fails. It just seems like every writer is hell bent on trying to recapture the Wrath of Khan….only this time Khan was actually in it.

The idea isn’t completely without merit, but I found the execution weak. Won’t be seeing it again, or any future Trek movies from here on out. Officially hanging up my Tricorder.

Appreciate you being so open with the fans Bob, but I’m feeling pretty low tonight after waiting so long to see this movie…only to have a Khan retread.

484. matt - May 18, 2013

The US boxoffice take is going to be less then star trek 09, they made a big mistake, should have pushed the movie forward to may 9. May have may litle less the first weekend due to Iron Man but would have had two decent weekend takes. Now its going to go up against 2 big money takers f&f6 and hang over 3 (mainstream movies). Compared that where I am at in Australia the new movies its going up against is the snitch and the call (big chance of being no1 two weeks in a row). Un heard of for a star trek movie in australia. In the US its going to be wiped out by those two mainstream movies. Compared to last time when it only went up against Angels and Demons which its almost beat. Only hope to make more is for the International boxoffice to make at least 200 million.

485. AyanEva - May 18, 2013

Question, which I’m sure will get lost in the shuffle here but I’m very curious:

When Khan and Spock were fighting on the garbage freighter, there was the moment towards the end of the fight where Khan tried to crush Spock’s skull and Spock fought back with a mind meld. What do you suppose Spock might have seen in that meld and will it come into play later on?

486. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

@483 New Horizon,

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just don’t capture the idea of how this was a “Khan retread.” If anything, Khan and his people were an adjunct to a broader story of corruption.

I will freely admit that I was firmly in the “No Khan” camp as the early production rumors for this movie emerged. And I stand behind that assertion. I think the writers made a very credible story, particularly within the context of the alternate timeline. They essentially made Khan’s character almost notional, an homage to the TOS Khan, but didn’t go into depths about the Botany Bay or any of the “Space Seed” origins that would have shifted the focus away from Kirk’s maturing process or the corruption issue.

As I said, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I just respectfully disagree with the idea of this being a “Khan retread.” An homage? Definitely. But not a retread.

487. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

483 – and this is probably why Trek is fairing more poorly than usual.

I wonder how many tickets aren’t being sold because a not insignificant number of Star Trek fans AREN’T going to see it a 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th time? And over something that was completely unnecessary. Orci himself admitted that one could pretty much literally have the same movie without Khan. So why have him?

488. Admiral Piet - May 18, 2013

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. Check out our take on “Into Darkness” at http://feeds.feedburner.com/PhgeekPopCulturePodcast

489. TrekMadeMeFat - May 18, 2013

If anything, the studio is going to agree with the critics and tell them they had a little too much Star Trek in the movie.

They will likely be told to make Star Trek 3 closer to Star Trek 1.

We’ll see a rejection of fan opinion, not the reverse.

490. Kevin Browning - May 18, 2013

@ Boborci

How much influence does Paramount have when it comes to the script? Do they tell you what they expect or is it all up to the writers?

Also, I loved the WOK twist at the end of STID…very cool..

491. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

The first movie rocks! Like Scotty said, it’s exciting.

I saw that baby five times in the theater (actually, maybe six times, but it gets a little embarrassing after three times, right?), plus bought the thing.

This movie, no.

I’ve seen it twice in theater, might just see it again because I love Star Trek.

I will buy it, at some point. Or I might not, leaving it to the Netflix “collection” whenever.

Studios know that repeat customers are key. Why do you think Titanic was so unbelievably popular?

The first movie doesn’t play pastiche (or mash-up, for others) games with Trekdom. Well, it doesn’t play the games STID does.

Actually, I suspect the next movie has a recognizable antagonist that is not an insult to the material and a bit more thoughtfulness than this one.

>489. TrekMadeMeFat – May 18, 2013
If anything, the studio is going to agree with the critics and tell them they had a little too much Star Trek in the movie.

They will likely be told to make Star Trek 3 closer to Star Trek 1.

We’ll see a rejection of fan opinion, not the reverse.

492. Matt - May 18, 2013

if the movie doesn’t do as well as the last movie they won’t do Khan again. The Next movie will have more trek in it because of the 50th anniversary. I guessing it will have klingons / romulans as the main villians next time.

493. Federali Aundy - May 18, 2013

@boborci Do we actually see the Enterprise fire a single phaser or photon during this entire movie?

494. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 18, 2013

I have just come online and have not read all the posts.

Re: the argument between Spock and Uhura on the shuttle with Kirk as witness – many people have made negative comments about that scene, especially the behaviour of Uhura in bringing up what appeared to be personal problems, while on duty, in front of their commanding officer…

I guess you could see it that way, but that is not how I see it at all. One could say that the argument between Spock and Uhura should have been had in private, however, Uhura’s concerns over Spock’s behaviour were also Kirk’s concern. Ref. lift scene between Kirk and Uhura. This scene in the shuttle was the resolution to the queries that both Kirk and Uhura had about Spock, so the scene worked and was necessary in understanding where the character Spock was at and how his insights, feelings and attitudes affected his behaviour. Spock was forced to clear the air as to what was going on inside himself and that required that he trust his captain and his ship’s communications officer/troubleshooter (who was also his girlfriend)…

495. Aix - May 18, 2013

I’m still mad about the writers naming him Khan. Hahaha! They should have let him be John Harrison with the same backstory and keep us guessing.

496. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Two thoughts occur.

1. Aren’t villains staples of superhero/comic book movies? And not necessarily action-adventure movies?

Who was the villain of the greatest action-adventure film of all time, Raiders of the Lost Ark? There was no single villain.

2. Why was the Enterprise such an ineffectual warship in STID? It’s out-gunned, sure, but all it does against the Vengeance is cower and get pounded. Would Original Kirk and the rest of the TOS heroes just sit back and take a pounding? I don’t think so. They would have been working on how to find weakness in Vengeance, all the while maneuvering for advantage, firing their weapons and making moves to hold it at bay.

>492. Matt – May 18, 2013
if the movie doesn’t do as well as the last movie they won’t do Khan again. The Next movie will have more trek in it because of the 50th anniversary. I guessing it will have klingons / romulans as the main villians next time.

493. Federali Aundy – May 18, 2013
@boborci Do we actually see the Enterprise fire a single phaser or photon during this entire movie?

497. Konar - May 18, 2013

52-year-old lifetime trekker here — saw the film this afternoon and I’m dumbfounded by the negative opinions here — thought the story was very engaging and found the turnabout at the end a respectful — and even necessary character moment for both Kirk and Spock. Story had a satisfying ark and by the end had even seemed to “correct” the trend toward militarism triggered by the events of the first film. Performances amazing and VERY nuanced. Lots to read between the lines and perfectly true to the characters where they are now in their development. Certainly the best executed Trek film to date — and DEFINITELY a Trek film.

498. Michael Towns - May 18, 2013

Konar,

Definitely agree with you! For those with eyes to see, this was a brilliant film. I am also flabbergasted at the negativity.

499. CrisisInThe SlowLane - May 18, 2013

OK. I am a UK trekkie who has now seen Into Darkness 5 times (1 x IMAX 3D digital, 2x regular d 2D digital, 1 x Dolby 3D @ Empire Leicester Square in Dolby Atmos and 1 x 15/70 3D @ BFI IMAX) and yet I still don’t feel quite qualified to give my opinion on this movie. I will reserve my definitive opinion for another post but I think the feeling I cannot contain any longer is that this is far from the greatest Star Trek movie ever. I don’t think it is the worst, perhaps marginally superior to Star Trek (2009). I have been desperate for a long time to love this film, having had my poster signed on the white carpet by JJ (a very nice man who very sincerely told me he hoped I enjoyed the movie) but snubbed by Cumberbatch. Indeed, this movie was released in the UK on the same date I sat very important professional exams, hence the fact I could not make my first viewing until 20:50 on 9 May. This was far from a bad movie but it is not the Star Trek I fell in love with (I think that moment came watching Where No Man Has Gone Before on BBC2 on a Sunday morning in 1995). My immediate disappointment is focused on the relentless series of action sequences, which I found very tedious However, I have to say that the scene where Kirk kicks/realigns the warp core is perhaps the greatest scene in any incarnation I have ever scene, to the point where I feel goosebumps all over and tears rolling down my cheeks every time I see it. I do, however have serous reservation about the context of that scene. Yes all ‘budgineering’ scenes in this film feel refreshingly grounded in reality but this warp core is so far removed from anything we have seen before. Is this highly radioactive reactor really of the same kin as the column of light containing controlled reaction of deuterium and anti-deuterium seen in the other series/films?

500. matt - May 18, 2013

496 – 10 out 12 star trek movies has had a villian in it

496 – Who was the villain of the greatest action-adventure film of all time, Raiders of the Lost Ark? There was no single villain

The answer is clearly is hitler and the nazis

The main villian in STID is not Khan its marcus and section 31

501. Disinvited - May 18, 2013

# 398. Curious Cadet – May 18, 2013

” Interesting, well there’s your explanation about why Disney paid Paramount handsomely to buy them out of their contract with Marvel, if there ever was any doubt” – Curious Cadet – May 18, 2013

Thanks for acknowledging that.

502. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 18, 2013

A lot of people expressed their desire NOT to see Khan again in these film iterations, however, just as many people seemed not to be able to imagine a major Star Trek movie not having what they believed to be Kirk’s greatest nemesis appear on screen again, albeit in an alternate universe.

The writers chose to do Khan – except I do not think he is necessarily same Khan (Khan is a very common name, as well as title). They also decided to make this group of people frozen in cryotubes lead by a man who calls himself Khan a real, potential Kirk/Starfleet nemeses, unlike the prime universe Khan…

Quit the bitching – the writers actually gave a great many people exactly what they deep down wished for (along with (ENT) Section 31 stuff…) I guess it really could be a case of being careful what you wish for.

Actually, I am more than happy with the little throwbacks, homages, twists on the prime universe canon. After all, the two universes are more similar than not. Many things may play out differently or not at all, but not everything. It does seem that the prime universe’s seven crew of the Enterprise are to be pretty much who they were and where they were in this alternate universe…

How can Trekkies not be happy?

503. Federali Aundy - May 18, 2013

@boborci Just to clarify my question in post 493, I did not mean that as a criticism as I absolutely loved the movie! I’m getting married in one week and I convinced my bride to move our wedding back to the 25th so I could get in as many viewings as possible before we leave the country LOL.

504. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Actually, Hitler is not in the movie.

He’s in there in the third movie, for about 30 seconds.

To the extent there is a villain, it would be neither Hitler nor the Nazis, who are antagonists, not villains, but Belloq.

But he’s not really a villain, either.

10 of the past 12 Trek films have major identifiable villains?

Sounds like I have a bunch of movies to watch then … :)

Let’s see, not in the first, or the third, or the fourth, the fifth is vague on who it might be, the sixth would be (the Klingon general, the Starfleet admiral?), the seventh has Soran but he’s not much of a villain, the Borg Queen is in the eighth, the ninth is that bad one with the paradise planet so the villain would be the admiral or the guy with the bad face lift, the tenth would be the clone.

Big movies are more prone to having super-villains, but they don’t require them.

>496 – Who was the villain of the greatest action-adventure film of all time, Raiders of the Lost Ark? There was no single villain

The answer is clearly is hitler and the nazis

505. Carlos Teran - May 18, 2013

I was deeply disappointed by Star Trek Into Darkness. The moment the true identity of the villain was evident, it lost my interest. Harrison was a great character concept, and this move wasn’t worth the wait at all. I was with a group of friends, and they had the same impression. The only one who enjoyed the move was one that didn’t know about ST2:TWOK. I really hope they get an original concept, script, and director for the next one, and not making us wait 4 years for a ST2:TWOK remake. That’s cheap thinking.

506. Mcflycat - May 18, 2013

So what I’m predicting…

In a deleted scene we get the explanation of an appearance alteration to make khan more inconspicuous. Which is what I’m guessing Orci is referring to when he says they’ll address the appearance next week. Which makes sense. Give the canon freaks a deleted scene to bring every thing full circle. It is however my opinion that such a scene should NOT of been edited out. It’s not like the movie was too long. Something cool like after he tells them he’s khan, the look him up in memory alpha, accuse him of lying, and he explains that Marcus altered his appearance so he could employ him in star fleet.

507. Mcflycat - May 18, 2013

If my prediction comes to fruition I will move my rating from a weak B- to a strong A-.

508. Dave H - May 18, 2013

Here we go again — 25% of the most recent posts are William Bradley’s.

:-(

509. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

507 – it’s possible it’s addressed in the After Darkness comic, though that would technically be in two weeks, not next week

510. Let Them Eat Plomeek Soup - May 18, 2013

This film was great. And really caught me off guard. I’ll definitely be watching it again.

511. Mcflycat - May 18, 2013

The appearance thing is my only legitimate grip.

Super blood: ok whatever, that’s fine

Time in travel: whatever, I don’t need to watch Kirk eating dinner for a couple days… You can skip to the action scene.

Spock screaming Khan: kind of cring worthy when watching, but in hindsight, kinda cool.

Pixie dust warp trail: I thought that was really neat actually.

Spock and uhura: would you want to wait seven years for pon-far? Me neither, let the guy have his jollies.

Those ate the big complaints I can think of.

512. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Knock it off, stalker.

>508. Dave H – May 18, 2013
Here we go again — 25% of the most recent posts are William Bradley’s.

:-(

513. Captain, USS Northstar - May 18, 2013

To paraphrase a line from ST VI, TUC:

I’d pay real money if #504 would just shut up.

514. DiscoSpock - May 18, 2013

@508. Yea, and he is STILL bitching about Khan/trek villains…2 days and over 100 posts later. And now the whining from him about the Enterprise not being able to take down Vengence; seems to me the Enterprise survived and defeated the Vengence in the movie because of Scotty’s (messing up the Vengance), Spock’s (arming the photon torpedos) and Kirk’s (the brazen space skydive idea) collective ingenuity, but I guess that “the General” missed those parts of the movie.

The General is wrong again, of course.

515. SoonerDave - May 18, 2013

@502 Keachick

Agree 101%. I’m a long-time Trek fan, started watching TOS reruns when I was about 8, and found myself absolutely enthralled by STID. As I”ve said, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but I’m amazed at the negativity here. This was a wonderful movie.

Think about it. This was Trek on a scale and scope we’ve *never* enjoyed before, with top flight production qualities from start to finish and a fine, entirely relevant story. We’ve seen the Enterprise in ways we never have. Our hero characters had compelling, credible story arcs; they grew beyond the frameworks under which we’ve come to understand them. They had important parts to a fabulous, intricately constructed story. There were subtleties, humor, and references that were aimed precisely for the long-term fan, but harmed the casual fan not at all for being unaware of them.

STID gave Uhura a fabulously important and relevant role. McCoy got to do some actual doctoring. Kirk had to risk something. Spock had to come to terms with emotions. Scotty had the most important part he’s had in virtually ANY Trek movie. And there was action abounding for the folks wary of the “cerebral” trips Trek has taken in the past. And it was marvelously assembled.

I, for one, a long-time Trek fan, am absolutely delighted with STID, and just can’t figure out what there is to be disappointed about.

Oh, well. C’est la vie, I suppose.

516. BatlethInTheGroin - May 18, 2013

Enjoying this film requires one to leave their brain at the door and accepts one stream of illogic after another. Nothing about this film stands up to scrutiny, and it’s based on a purely ridiculous premise.

And that kills me, as I truly wanted to love it.

517. @wikiwackywoo - May 18, 2013

I find it more than a little ironic that in numerous posts in threads here while this movie was in development, fans encouraged, begged, wheedled and admonished JJ to include Kahn as the villain in the next Trekflick. And now it’s the biggest complaint.

In one reply Orci said he could have called the C-batch character Schmukko (I forgot how he spelled it, but that’s close). Now, there’s an idea, huh? Well, he didn’t have to be Kahn, but there was a cryochilled crew in stasis, in weapons, no less. That was an interesting touch that emanated from the Kahn legacy.

Being Trekheads, there is a lot for an inside clique like this to enjoy in the film. It’s rampant energy and sheer beauty, its emotional breadth is significant and rewarding. The Kahn thing that you all rallied for came off like an awkward retrofit, it surely lacked some execution, but besides the fact that it was ham handed as a reference to an iconic Trekbaddie, it was a shattering foil for the impulse and heroics of the chain of command.

Yeah, call him Schmukko and he’s not such a misfixture. I caught that he was Ericsen but cheated into Harrison (nicely done!). He could have stayed Harrison and for viewers not as hung up as we are, it might be working. We have to see.

Some of the refs really went a bit wonky, ya think? A C-section on a Gorn? Listen Jim, I’m a Trekkie, not a trivia player.

518. Admiral Archer's Prize Beagle - May 18, 2013

“The General” ?

Yea, that is a good name for the Bradley troll.

LOL

519. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

In reality, DiscoStalker, I responded to this comment about the Enterprise itself not the characters, which notes that the Enterprise itself doesn’t do much but take a pounding, in this way:

2. Why was the Enterprise such an ineffectual warship in STID? It’s out-gunned, sure, but all it does against the Vengeance is cower and get pounded. Would Original Kirk and the rest of the TOS heroes just sit back and take a pounding? I don’t think so. They would have been working on how to find weakness in Vengeance, all the while maneuvering for advantage, firing their weapons and making moves to hold it at bay.

493. Federali Aundy – May 18, 2013
@boborci Do we actually see the Enterprise fire a single phaser or photon during this entire movie?

520. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

Ooh, it’s StereoStalker.

Or maybe just the same multi-handle.

Very boring.

>518. Admiral Archer’s Prize Beagle – May 18, 2013
“The General” ?

Yea, that is a good name for the Bradley troll.

LOL

521. MelyBelle44 - May 18, 2013

As a movie goer, I loved this film. There were so many things I liked about it. So many scenes that I can point to as truly great scenes. The villain didn’t bother me. Also, the re-hashing of old ST tropes didn’t bother me, either, not even the tribble. I thought the allusions to TOS were well done, with the exception of KHAN, I could have done without that.

As a fan, there are two complaints that I have, that go hand in hand into one rather large complaint. I loved Spock quite deeply in ST09; I loved him a little less in this one. Part of what I loved about Spock was his restraint after Vulcan (with the exception of when Kirk provoked him). Anyone with eyes could see that he was emotional, but he kept himself composed, grieved behind closed doors, and portrayed calm and cool to his crew. I didn’t expect tears; I didn’t want tears. It bugs me that after seeing his entire planet destroyed, his mother whom he worshiped and knew his entire life killed, and he did not shed one tear. His mentor and friend Christopher Pike dies, and he is stoic as they come. A guy who he has had a wishy washy relationship with and only known for 6 months, dies and he is weeping openly. Huh?

Which leads me to my main complaint: there is a certain segment of the Trek fandom who shall remain nameless…but go to any social media site, and you will find them whooping it up. You can connect the dots. This certain segment of people, if you give them an inch, they take a mile. You give them a mile? They are going to be insufferable.

They were already annoying after the first one. Whining and complaining. Criticizing characters. Saying downright nasty things about the actors and actresses who portrayed said characters. Calling Bob, Damon, Alex, and JJ every name in the book. But, now that these people were given so much with this film, they are going to be gloating for the next four years or however long it is before the next film comes out.

I have been one of the strongest defenders of the reboot. I have vigorously defended the alternate reality and the choices made in ST09 to some of these…um, extremists, I’ll call them. And, to see them get exactly what they wanted all along…it is kind of frustrating.

Again, I enjoyed the movie. Will definitely buy it on DVD. But, if the fandom is as vocal as I expect they will be, I am not sure how much I can take.

522. sean - May 18, 2013

I loved the new warp effect with the stardust trail. One of my favorite visuals in the movie.

523. Captain, USS Northstar - May 18, 2013

@ 515 — Totally agree! There is absolutely NOTHING to be disappointed about — this movie fired on all cylinders (or on all dilithium chambers).

I’m noticing (and I hate to make a generalization, but here it goes anyway) that many of us long-time fans (the ones who remember TOS when it was TOS on NBC) were mostly pleased with the movie and this new iteration of Star Trek.

I’ve also noticed that those who perceive the “morality play” within the movie were also pleased.

Alas — projects in the yard kept me from getting to a 3D showing today, but I am hopeful for tomorrow.

And, to the poster up above (forget the number) who wrote: “No movies for me — anniversary weekend” — just remember: Nothing says “May we live long and prosper together” better than a dinner/movie date night celebration at your local STID screening. Happy Anniversary.

524. DiscoSpock - May 18, 2013

@519. General, do you even both to read responses to your post? You specifically said:

“Would Original Kirk and the rest of the TOS heroes just sit back and take a pounding?”

“And I responded:

“seems to me the Enterprise survived and defeated the Vengeance in the movie because of Scotty’s (messing up the Vengeance), Spock’s (arming the photon torpedoes) and Kirk’s (the brazen space skydive idea) collective ingenuity”

I fully answered your question, but you don’t even acknowledge this in your response?????

Guy, the reason EVERYBODY hates you here is because:

(1) You refuse to address people when they have legitimate response to your comments — like the example above

(2) You make stuff up that is simple untrue, like the supposed mixed native and Spanish ancestry.

Seriously, you have raised some good points in your post, but “your act” is just so abrasive that you really piss a lot of people off.

I’d like to suggest you start over, try to be more truthful, try to engage in honest discourse, and try to be less condescending, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised how much nicer here everyone will start being towards you.

For my part, I would certainly be willing to give you a fresh start if you are willing to do this.

525. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

For the record, all posts on this thread about how the new movie is doing, from the following three handles, are just personal attacks on me:

“Dave H.”

“DiscoSpock”

“Admiral Archer’s Prize Beagle”

That’s quite a bit of purely negative sock-puppetry.

526. DiscoSpock - May 18, 2013

That is just great, guy,

I try to throw out the olive branch to you, and you accuse me of being a sock-puppet.

I would NEVER take someone else’s identify on any web site.

I have something you lack — “honor.”

527. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

I don’t have “discussions” with stalkers.

If the person whose comment I replied to wants to discuss, that’s cool.

>524. DiscoSpock – May 18, 2013
@519. General, do you even both to read responses to your post? You specifically said:

528. VoR - May 18, 2013

The movie was incredible.

Heart was racing the entire way through…. cannot get over how good that was.

Wow.

529. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

You have had nothing to say here about Star Trek. At least as “DiscoSpock.”

It’s all personal attacks, immediately accompanied by attacks from other handles who also have nothing to say about Trek but attack me.

I have no interest in any engagement with you.

Stop the stalking.

>526. DiscoSpock – May 18, 2013
That is just great, guy,

I try to throw out the olive branch to you, and you accuse me of being a sock-puppet.

I would NEVER take someone else’s identify on any web site.

I have something you lack — “honor.”

530. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

It has some great moments, no question about that. And the ending was terrific.

>528. VoR – May 18, 2013
The movie was incredible.

Heart was racing the entire way through…. cannot get over how good that was.

Wow.

531. John from Cincinnati - May 18, 2013

502

True Trekkers are happy. Obviously the noobs are haters and only wanted to see what they wanted to see. STID is a well-executed, entertaining movie and the noobs would rather have tantrums and jump up and down just because the villain’s name is Khan. Noobs, you are showing your true colors.

532. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

531 – sure, I went to see undiscovered country in the theater when I was 9, but sure, call me a noob for not liking this movie

533. John from Cincinnati - May 18, 2013

I didn’t mention any names. Someone feeling defensive?

534. William Bradley - May 18, 2013

I watched “The Man Trap” on NBC, in September 1966.

535. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

533 –

“True Trekkers are happy. Obviously the noobs are haters”

That seems pretty unambiguous, no?

If you dislike this movie, you’re obviously a noob

536. sean - May 18, 2013

I also have to say that if anyone was ever curious as to what a Spielberg-directed Trek would look like, look no further than that cold open. JJ was wearing his influences on his sleeve there, and it was great.

537. John from Cincinnati - May 18, 2013

For the record, a Noob or Newbie is a twenty-something, never was really into Trek, saw ST09 and loved it because it was something totally different from what they expected. Jumped on the Trek bandwagon, want to see the Trek universe turned on it’s head, hates anything to do with the original series (cause it’s like, not hip), loved the iBridge (cause it’s like their iPhones) and voiced their opinions to have a brand new villain. Well, the writers and producers decided the franchise is still called Star Trek, not Babylon 5, and even though it’s an alternated universe, there. is 40 years of mythos to be used, not rejected.

I applaud the writers for giving us a great movie, while still acknowledging Trek’s mythos while still giving us something new and fresh and exciting.

Haters be dammed.

538. Blowback - May 18, 2013

Long time Trekker here….

Just saw STID and I really enjoyed the movie, it was a fast two hours… I have a few nits to pick but they are only minor in the scheme of all things Trek.

One thing that did strike me in the last two movies. The travel times between Earth and other locations such as old Vulcan and Qo’noS seem to be remarkably short. Is that intentional or am I just missing that fact that more time has passed during travel?

Also, did anyone else notice that Praxis appears to have already exploded? I could swear I saw the shattered moon in the shot of Qo’noS…

539. Blowback - May 18, 2013

Whoops… Just read through the posts and saw I was not the first to mention Praxis…

540. Govna - May 18, 2013

To everyone saying that transwarp beaming eliminates the need for starships. That’s an overly simplified and faulty statement. Transwarp beaming is convenient if you simply wat to GO somewhere. But if you want to actually do EXPLORING then you’re goin to need your starship. The starship carries teams of experts and equipment. Also the starship generally ensures close proximity to the world being explored. Certainly it’s much more convenient to study something from orbit rather than from half the galaxy away.

541. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

538 – well the comment after the first movie was that you can’t read into travel times based on elapsed screen time

And yes, there was an exploded moon. There is no official word that it’s Praxis but that’s what people are assuming

542. MJ (The Guy Who Correctly Deduced it was Khan Way Back in Fall 2011) - May 18, 2013

Anthony,

FYI — that same troll is getting out of control again here now tonight.

543. Shock - May 18, 2013

I loved the movie….It was great, my favorite so far this year.

But really I could watch the E go to warp for 2 hours. Those shots were so awesome.

Where are we going for #3? Borg?

544. Blowback - May 18, 2013

@541 – Thanks for the confirmation.

The speed at which the Vengeance overtook the Enterprise was startling. It basically rolled up like the Enterprise was standing still..

545. sean - May 18, 2013

I assumed Praxis is already exploded because the military machine on Kronos is pumped up to maximum given the tensions and the Nero incursion (we know Nero destroyed 47 Klingon ships upon escaping Rura Penthe).

546. Red Dead Ryan - May 18, 2013

#529.

William Bradley

“It’s all personal attacks, immediately accompanied by attacks from other handles who also have nothing to say about Trek but attack me.”

Dude, people were pointing out some facts that you got wrong earlier, and instead of acknowledging that, you treat them like idiots by being condescending, rude, and asinine. You have been out of line here and we’re sick of it. SICK OF IT!!!!

DiscoSpock extended an olive branch, but instead of accepting it with grace and humility, you pissed all over it.

We get it. You’re a hater, and a pretty obnoxious one at that.

“Sop the stalking.”

I suggest you stop the trolling and spamming like Anthony told you to.

ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!

547. Dave H - May 18, 2013

Mr. Pascale,

I agree with MJ in #542 above. William Bradley is just spamming out of control again, and fighting with everyone he interacts with. Nearly 40% of the last 40 posts up to #534 above were his.

548. Tom - May 18, 2013

I think the Nimoy scene was important. When Spock asks Spock Prime how he defeated him he says at great cost. Then it cuts off. Later we hear Spock tell Khan that Vulcans never lie. However he exaggerated about the cryo tubes. So I believe Spock Prime told him of the “you lied” “i exaggerated ” episode from Trek 2

549. Dan - May 18, 2013

Just saw it. Liked it better than the 09 reboot. Simple reason, they got the characters right. Pine was very good with subtle traces of Shatner’s Kirk but no cheesy imitation. Quinto looks and acts more and more like the Spock we love. Urban just is McCoy. Scotty was less Simon Pegg doing comedy and more Engineer Scott. And I really liked the Nimoy cameo. Why not seek advice from someone who may have answers?

There were plot holes, but I was just enjoying the ride too much to care. And the mirror image of scenes from previous Trek didn’t bother me much – in a parallel universe, I suppose a lot of “similar” things can happen. The only time I winced was…”KHAAAAANNNN!”

Finally, the action sequences were really well done. Watching Spock chase Harrison through San Francisco was really exhilarating. I’d put it right up there with TWOK as the top two of the series. I do hope the next one goes a different direction though – a little less parallel and and a little more out into the final frontier.

550. Josh C. - May 18, 2013

548 – here is my problem with that scene. I think it was OK up to that point, but assuming Spock Prime gave advice on how to beat Khan, that would suggest that THIS crew, for some reason, was incapable of the task by themselves.

551. Lilgreenman - May 18, 2013

I hope to god that the “KHAAAAAAN!” and Kirk’s Fonzarelli maintenance was supposed to be played for laughs. I actually think it was – Damon Lindelof is a big fan of review sites like Red Letter Media, and I caught a few nods to RLM’s Star Wars prequel reviews. A guy like that would have realized how silly the Khan shout was – and it worked, everyone in the theater laughed.

552. Tom - May 19, 2013

#550 Josh C.

Have to believe even if he did give advice, there was no certainty that they would defeat him in this timeline. THIS crew still made that happen.

553. endeavour crew - May 19, 2013

Just saw it at the Cinerama Dome

Thoughts.

Overall, it was a very good movie- JJ, Orci, Kurtzman and the rest of the crew did a great job at creating an exciting and emotionally driven movie.

The Good.

Klingons and their look- simply badass. Nuff said.

Loved it when the Vengeance overtook the “E” at warp- again badass and spooky at the same time. Can’t say Carol didn’t warn you Jim……

My fears started rising when Kirk’s death scene arrived as I worried they would use the exact same dialogue from TWOK- they didn’t and Kirk saying he was “scared” was very touching.

Another nice point was you could actually feel like the crew really was going to be obliterated by Marcus……that was also eerie.

Really nice to see a lot of 23rd century Earth.

The Bad.

Cumberbatch was very good but he did not really give me a “Kahn” feeling until toward the end of the show. Can’t wait to hear Orci talk about his appearance etc.

The Ugly.

Spock yelling “KHAAAAAAAAAAN”
Cringed on that one- yes it was necessary to give the audience a sense of Spock’s anger but a simple loud cry would have been fine……

Bob, any thoughts on a comic arriving detailing their first Five-year mission?

554. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

I thought the scene with Spock Prime played very well also.

Nimoy said a very great deal in just a few words, with his intonation, telling his alter-self how grave the situation truly was and what lengths might have to be gone to in order to prevail.

It was also great to work Nimoy into the film. He had a very nice presence in Fringe. And if the next Trek film comes out for the anniversary in 2016, as I expect it will, we can’t be sure who will be available.

>548.

555. Ahmed - May 19, 2013

I wish if they used Spock Prime in a more substantial way rather than acing like a living google!

556. Ahmed - May 19, 2013

oops that should “acting”

557. disgruntled Star Trek fan - May 19, 2013

@ boborci why don’t you guys come up with something original? I’m soo disappointed in this movie. Cmon guys, Star Trek TWOK has been done and much better than you guys did. If you guys are involved in the next movie try to be original.

558. Tom - May 19, 2013

#554 William Bradley

I hope that if Shatner and Nimoy are still available, they will find a place for a meaningful scene for them in the next film. Especially since folks are already talking about it being the 50th anniversary

559. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

Well, there is that on the ” living Google” factor … :)

Tom, I suspect it may be more possible to have Shatner in the new film with Abrams stepping away. They don’t seem to get along, and somewhere way up on this thread there is a link to a story about how JJ and company were thwarted in their plans to monetize every aspect of the Star Trek franchise, including what seems to have been JJ’s plan to stop all merchandising featuring the Original Series cast. Which I suspect has something to do with Shatner not being especially chummy with JJ Abrams.

555. Ahmed – May 19, 2013
I wish if they used Spock Prime in a more substantial way rather than acing like a living google!

558. Tom – May 19, 2013
#554 William Bradley

I hope that if Shatner and Nimoy are still available, they will find a place for a meaningful scene for them in the next film. Especially since folks are already talking about it being the 50th anniversary

560. Steve G - May 19, 2013

So after my second viewing, I’m thinking that Spock’s mind meld with “Khan” during the fight revealed to Spock that indeed that isn’t Khan and whoever it is, judging from his expression, knows that Spock knows and Spock knows that he knows that Spock knows.

561. Philip - May 19, 2013

I think it’s time for a new director though. I think when Abrams said he’s thought some of the work directors who have taken over for him have done, better, that’s clearly his nice way of saying adios Trekkies:)

Can you imagine the pressure he’s under for Star Wars to not suck???

Disney’s not exactly easy to deal with from what I’ve heard anyway.

562. DoubleTorpor - May 19, 2013

I saw STID last night on IMAX 3D and I’m still digesting it. I had been used an app on my phone to count down the days till the movie opened…boy, was it a long wait. I’m going to (happily) see the movie again, I really couldn’t take it all in the first viewing, but I’m so grateful to everyone who made the movie possible.

I have a few comments about plot points (I don’t like to call it nitpicking…it’s a discussion between fans!)

1. Kahn: In TOS he was a genetically modified human. Stronger, less vulnerable to pain, quicker reaction time, etc… but *human*. The Kahn I saw in STID was….Wolverine or The Terminator. Kirk beat the s**t out of him and didn’t even break his skin? His seeming invincibility was so established at that point in the movie, that I almost laughed when Scotty was able to put him down with a mere phaser stun.

2. Kirk’s death. I really, really, really wished they hadn’t telegraphed his resurrection by having McCoy inject the Tribble with Kahn’s blood on screen before the warp core scene. It was difficult to feel shock and despair at Kirk’s death when we were just shown the means of his salvation. Plus, it also seemed rushed to me, I didn’t get a chance to even feel his death before the movie rushed off to fix it. Maybe it will feel different to me in future viewing.

3. Kahn’s blood. Wow, an effective and fast-acting cure for every physical illness up to and including death. Screw the Klingons and space exploration….I’d put your time and your money into synthesizing that magical elixer. What now for Kirk (and the little girl who received the Kahn-cure)? Does Kirk now have the same immunity to pain as Kahn? What impact will the blood have on his body chemistry and future health…will he still be allergic to Retinox?

3. Kirk’s revival. I know that the movie couldn’t devote hours to it, but I would really hope that a man awakening from a DEATH experience (not a *near*-death experience) would be treated with a little more sensitivity than someone who just woke up after falling out of a tree house. Yes, Bones is Bones, but still….

I thought all the actors were great, but I always felt the quiet scene with Pike and Kirk in the bar was the “keeper” scene in the 2009 movie. Again in STID, the Pike and Kirk quiet moments were what stuck with me. Pike’s death for me was the real weeper. Everyone is talking about Cumberpatch, but Bruce Greenwood, to me, was the creator of the most genuine and memorable moments in the movie. Kudos to Chris Pine too. He was a very different Kirk in this movie. The look on his face when Pike told him (so gently) that he was losing command of the Enterprise was heartbreaking. Pine too, when he told Spock just before the ‘space dive’ that ‘he didn’t know what he was doing, but he did know what he could do’…the rawness of his voice and the very small catch was really powerful and a stand out moment.

I’m enjoying reading all the comments. Love to the ST community and thanks for this forum to celebrate it.

563. Charles E. Pratt, Jr. - May 19, 2013

I just wrote the WAR AND PEACE sized edition to STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS but forgot to put my name in there before clicking “say it”. To my GREAT dismay I lost everything I just spent 45 minutes writing and re editing. &^%*&^#!!!!!

Bottom line: I loved STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS. I thought the movie was extremely exciting visually and storywise. I thought the characterizations were spot on and that this new Trek is proudly carrying on the best of what STAR TREK can be. The callbacks to THE WRATH OF KHAN and that whole thing was just fine with me. THE WRATH OF KHAN is one thing, TREK INTO DARKNESS is another. I don’t see that you have to love one and cast out the other. I love them both and consider them both to be valid interpretations. I had a GREAT time.

564. good but disappointed - May 19, 2013

Die hard sw and st fan, since forever, did not like it that much.
Its good if you look at it as an episode.
Needs to be longer with more drama added, talking….to be better.
Will buy the blue ray.
The camera f suck in 3D.
Need a new director.
Need TV series.
Next movie in two years and the Klingons want war.
Movie after or b4 should be about garth.
Kill scottys pet
Make this guy actually be Joachim and bring khan with benicio Del toro.
More later whether readers like it or not…

565. BlackAjah - May 19, 2013

First time comment!!

Loved the movie, and have loed trolling and reading hundreds and hundreds of comments and opinions from the die-hard fans of our beloved franchise.

Now I am frustrated though by Bradley and anti-Bradley co. who are making this feel more like a middle school forum as opposed to an adult one.

Anti-Bradley peeps, just ignore him already. Bradley, you don’t have to control the forum nor do you always have to get the last word nor do you have to post so much. Just go do something else for awhile.

566. good but disappointed - May 19, 2013

If sw has the same camera effects I will see it in 3d.
Into darkness its not trek, just trek theme.
True trek is for intelligent humans, not enough of us to make lots of money.
JJ’s sw will be better…
But another run with trek, where he listens to us can redeem him…
We all love him and are greatfull.

567. Philip - May 19, 2013

Great blues tune that I’d never have known about if not for STID:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb-EJEWRxlM

568. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 19, 2013

@562. Charles E. Pratt, Jr.

That has happened to me sometimes – usually when I’ve stuffed up typing in the email address correctly. The remedy, which I mostly follow if I think my post is going to be a bit long, is to type it up in a word processor (eg Word) and then copy & paste it into the message box. Then, if it vanishes into the ether, I don’t have to start from scratch.

569. DC (The Guy Who Predicted Way Back in 2009 That the Villain Would Be Khan) - May 19, 2013

That screen name took forever to type!

570. good but disappointed - May 19, 2013

Between will and see there should be a not.
You beautifull intelligent human, you…

571. good but disappointed - May 19, 2013

The movie should be longer..on BR add everything that got edited out…as part of the movie, not as deleted scenes…

572. Dennis C - May 19, 2013

Let’s all make nice and agree that this was a far more enjoyable experience than “Prometheus”, a film which managed to suck the life out of the ‘Alien’ franchise in a way that even “Alien vs Predator: Requiem” couldn’t do.

573. marty - May 19, 2013

i don’t know what’s worse.. william bradley or people calling out willian bradley.

anyway.

looks like my prediction about this movie not making as much as ’09 is right.

for me, the biggest things i didn’t like were: khan now being british(with no explanation on screen), the fast pace/no time for fans for absorb what was going on, and reusing too many moments from ‘Wrath’ and the ’09 movie. everything else was okay.

it’s a nice movie for anyone who’s not seen the 10 ‘real’ star trek movies, or for those who might know generalities about the star trek universe.. that said, us trekkies feel disappointed. this movie is a great spectacle.. just has some poor writing to try and make us trekkies happy. want to make me happy?

@boborci, if you’re involved in ‘star trek 13′, please fix the timeline by the end of that movie. it’s great that star trek is back on the big screen, it’s great that it’s making big money.. however, what all of us trekkies knew and loved no longer exists.

the next generation crew might all be born..might all end up on an enterprise-d.. but it won’t be the same. i can say the same with the deep space 9 and voyager. vulcan imploded and praxis has already exploded, with no khitomer accord this time. this 5 year mission is taking place 6 years sooner than the original series.. spock and uhura? scotty has red hair? brewery engineering? funky nacelles? iBridge? transwarp beaming?

if you correct the timeline by the end of st: 13, your work will still have existed, it’ll gladly be accepted as canon, and every trekker and trekkie will be happy, it’ll also introduce all the movie goers into the ‘real’ trek universe by seeing the 3 bad robot trek films. it’s always possible to make everyone happy. this is the kobayashi maru test, and you are jim kirk.

the needs of the trekkies outweigh the needs of the general public.

574. Julio Scissors - May 19, 2013

Not sure why people are upset about Kirk’s demotion/re-promotion arc. The guy who gave him his stripes back had an ulterior motive for doing so. Admiral Marcus wanted Kirk out there because he believe Kirk would do the WRONG THING. He needed someone who “disrespects the chair” to do his dirty work.

Anyhow, saw the movie again today (this time in 2D) and liked it very much, as did my 15 year old daughter (who was in Pine/Cumberbatch heaven) and my 13 year old son. I personally didn’t care for the “no way to suspend disbelief” action scenes (hanging from ledges/fighting on speeding hovercars), but other than that I thought it was a really fun movie.

575. geodesic17 - May 19, 2013

@83.

I think criticism of the characters as not being the same as in the originals is off base. The point is that they have had different experiences and are not mature yet.

576. Bucky - May 19, 2013

STID will make a boatload of cash this weekend, and hopefully it will have enough legs to withstand the bombardment of Fast 6 / Hangover 3 next weekend. That may turn out to be not impossible because A) the movie is good as the last one and may have decent legs B) Fast 6 & Hangover 3 may be showing symptoms of franchise fatigue (Fast 6 is too close on the heels of the last outing, Hangover 3 is coming off a somewhat lame sequel)

577. Bucky - May 19, 2013

Anyway, I wanna say my fav. minor shout-outs in the film were Section 31 & seeing the NX-01 on Marcus’ display table. Whoever came up for those bits needs to be bought a pint or something just cuz I like seeing ST pre-Nero continuity still kept alive.

578. matthias - May 19, 2013

I h o p e, the next movie will not be about war with the klingons or an adaption of other well known episodes. This time it worked, but next time it would be a bad idea. I hope in the next movie there will be new worlds and new civilizations and that the enterprise will go, where no one has gone before. Maybe a strange idea, but…. well, maybe not!

579. Dennis C - May 19, 2013

@575

I agree. I thought the characters were actually pretty much spot-on and though I had some issues with the movie (I’m still grumbling about them) what I loved is that they remain true to the core of the spirit of Star Trek: Kirk and his crew uphold the ideals of the Federation by refusing to execute Khan and his people.

When I was a kid one of the things that stayed with me was a scene in “Balance of Terror” when Kirk calls out Stiles and tells him “There’s no room for bigotry on my bridge.” It defined who he was on a number of levels and in this film, by refusing to turn Khan over, defined his character yet again. Humanity has evolved and the ideals of the Federation will serve as the foundation for everything to come.

So, in that regard, Kirk demonstrated how he had matured and why he was the ideal candidate for the five year mission. He will place the ideals of the Federation first and he will never place his crew at needless risk.

With the growing pains out of the way I think we will get a Star Trek movie everyone will finally be happy with (other than the suits and bean counters at Paramount).

580. SarahSparrow - May 19, 2013

@boborci

Just saw Into Darkness for the second time. Loved it just as much as the first time.

Question: is it just a coincidence that the “construction hanger” near Jupiter, I believe it was called, seems awfully cube-shaped?

581. Spoctor McKirk - May 19, 2013

Just saw it for the first time. Don’t understand how anyone could say it was a bad movie. Blew the first one out of the water! Superb film. Loved every minute of it, and I will see it again. Thank you JJ, Bob, Alex, and Damen. You guys have rocked my world!!!

582. HubcapDave - May 19, 2013

@548

I think he actually told him about Kirk using the prefix code to drop Reliant’s shields. During Kirk’s death scene Kirk says to Spock, “You used what he wanted against him.”, which is kinda what Kirk did to Khan in their first engagement in TWOK.

And it also just occurred to me that the Mutara Nebula battle would fit that description as well. Khan allows Joachim to slow the ship and not follow the E in, until Kirk goads him. Kirk uses Khan’s thirst for revenge to battle in an arena that evens the odds against the Enterprise.

By the way, I just saw STID for the second time, this time in 2D and with a full house, and I liked the movie even better!

583. DggJag - May 19, 2013

42 year old Trekker here. When I say I am a TOS fan I mean I am a rabid super fan!!! TOS not only entertained me as a child, it influenced my life. Star Trek Into Darkness was wonderful!!! Was the story perfect? No, of course not. Was it better than 09? Yes very much so. Better pace and great character interactions. Star Trek is back.

584. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 19, 2013

I’ve started reading the novelization on Kindle. I’m up to just past the introductory scene with Dr ‘Wallace’ on the shuttle so far. The novelization is not exactly the same as the movie, but it’s very close (as you would expect). There is some additional exposition in it – in particular exactly how Harrison got all the way to Qo’nos via the transwarp beaming device.

It’s reinforcing my feeling after I’d watched it the first time (I’m up to 5 thus far) – the movie needed to be longer to properly deal with all that’s in it. It’s too fast paced, too action packed for this old codger to take it all in in 1 or even 2 viewings.

Of course, if it were longer, and had more exposition, would it still appeal to the mainstream movie goers? I realise I’m hardly typical as I usually see only 2 or 3 movies at the cinema each year.

I’m sure JJ Abrams and team have a lot of extra footage they had to cut for length reasons. I really hope they put it on the DVD as an extended version of the movie (a la Peter Jackson with LOTR) rather than just a set of deleted scenes.

585. Toonloon - May 19, 2013

Was blown away again by it yesterday.

My God, what a superb film! Imagine you know nothing about Star Trek… most movies don’t have a tenth of the amount of story in this. All the background, the history, the imagination that is Star Trek, then add a brilliant revenge tale with modern militaristic and political nuances and this film is nothing short of miraculous.

3 things I noticed the second time round:

1 Carol Marcus is staying onboard so will probably be Kirk’s love interest in the third film.

2 Did Cumberbatch his entire dialogue in this movie like they did with Star Wars so that they could digitally enhance his voice? In the corridor on the Vengeance I thought his voice and mouth were a little out of sync.

3 The civilian ship they used to fly to Qu’Nos – was that supposed to be Harry Mudd’s ship that had been confiscated? Perhaps boborci could explain where the ship came from, if he would be so kind.

586. Toonloon - May 19, 2013

The spell checker removed an abbreviation for some weird reason.

My sentence should have read “Did Cumberbatch ADDITIONAL DIALOGUE RECORD” but with the lettered abbreviation. Basically, I’m saying did he re-record all his dialogue in a studio.

587. Defiant - May 19, 2013

@585

I noticed the same thing about Cumberbatch. It also seemed to me that his mouth was altered with cg effects in 1 or 2 shots, he suddenly had a very edgy and sharp mouth(like the Joker from Batman)
About Mudd’s ship:
Read the “Countdown to Darkness” comic, it explains why Mudd’s ship has been confiscated(Won’t spoil you here)

588. Tuvok - May 19, 2013

What was the mechanism for the warp core breaking down? Did it go by so quickly that I missed it? Was it something emitting from the torpedoes ?
It was supposed to be sabotage but I never noticed a clear explanation.

589. mjpeng - May 19, 2013

Gene Roddenberry is probably turning in his grave after what J.J. Abrams has done to Star Trek. Nothing in this movie makes any sense.

590. Alt-Spock - May 19, 2013

I have seen every Star Trek movie on the day it opened, including ’09 JJ-Trek. I will not be seeing Into Darkness.

591. Platitude - May 19, 2013

@boborci

Possibly my favorite out of all 12 films. You guys should be proud of this movie. Excellent film.

592. Ash - May 19, 2013

Bob if you are reading this, THANK YOU!

I absolutely loved it, which is such a relief because I was so worried that I wouldn’t. I see tons of people ripping apart the Kirk/Spock death scene and especially the KHAN yell. I thought it was wonderful. Even when they argued and bickered Kirk and Spock have ALWAYS had a special connection. Kirk gets reactions and emotions out of him that no one else does. Spock doesn’t realize how deep the bond goes until it’s too late. Once they have met and that relationship has begun, they become half of a whole. He had Uhura when he was alone, and he still does, but now he has Kirk. The person that will change his life completely. I thought the scene played out beautifully, and cements the Kirk and Spock relationship for future movies.
I was very moved by the actors, and I was so glad to see all the critics call out the Kirk and Spock relationship and interactions as the best part of the film (along with Cumberbatch, who was great!) and in my theater there wasn’t a dry eye in the house!

I’ll definitely be seeing this one agan! Well worth the 4 year wait IMO :)

PS Karl Urban was spectacular as expected, but maybe in the next film less metaphors and jokes, and more K/S/B scenes and maybe let him get in on the action a little bit. He’s too beloved and important to be sidelined to cheesy one liners :)

593. Lurker - May 19, 2013

@560
I noticed that too – but my take was Spock was attempting a Vulcan Death Grip.
Anyway, loved the movie, and can honestly say it had the biggest emotional impact on me of any Star Trek movie. My wife and daughter are casual Trek fans and they can’t wait to see it again.

594. Rick-Jones - May 19, 2013

Quoting Joss Whedom:

My opinion: Trekkers must defend Star Trek and its values, not Its producers or directors…They will go away. But Star Trek stands. Star Trek must be the BEATLES, non the summer song…

STID is a fun movie, yeah. But, in my poor opinion, it smashes Star trek values. A film that is too readily applauding military might above all else (tough pretending otherwise) . It’s more important action than plot, aiming at the lowest blockbuster common denominator.

Joss Whedon said:

“This is a sad , sad reflection on our time when people must feed off the carcasses of beloved stories from their youth, just because they can’t think of an original idea of their own.

595. rogue_alice - May 19, 2013

“…if it is Just about the acting, then why not cast Meryl Streep as Kahn..”

LOL. That would be awesome!

596. DggJag - May 19, 2013

I respect everyone’s opinion, as that is one of TOS’s lessons. I agree that Into Darkness has issues but for me the joy was watching the characters grow into the family we all remember. No I don’t like the Spock, Uhura romance but it’s ok. All my favorite characters were shown in a new light. It was a morality play just like TOS. Family and friends come first. There is no such thing as black and white, grey areas are the norm. There are multiple sides to any conflict. Revenge is easy and desirable but it’s a path down the low road. Just like TOS.

597. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 19, 2013

@593. Lurker

According to Memory Alpha, the Vulcan Death Grip doesn’t actually exist. It was invented by Spock as a ploy in TOS The Enterprise Incident. Spock actually used both hands high on the face to apply an especially deep nerve pinch.

I took Spock’s action against Harrison in STID to be a mental attack using a meld.

598. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

“it smashes Star trek values. A film that is too readily applauding military might above all else (tough pretending otherwise)”

How could you say that this movie STID applauded military values? Starfleet’s Admiral Marcus applauded such values and allowed his own fears, paranoia and desire for power to dictate his actions…he hid the construction of the USS Vengeance – what does that say? When his daughter, Carol, found out what her father was doing, see how she reacted…

Go watch the movie again and this time – pay attention.

“people must feed off the carcasses of beloved stories…”? WTF? What does that even mean?

599. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

# 587. Defiant – May 19, 2013

“It also seemed to me that his mouth was altered with cg effects in 1 or 2 shots, he suddenly had a very edgy and sharp mouth(like the Joker from Batman)” – Defiant

As Curious Cadet mentioned in #289, Orci also mentioned some technical fixing in looping that I took to mean CGI lip correcting.

600. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 19, 2013

@596 DggJagg & @598 Keachick

Agreed. In my opinion, STID put TOS values front and centre.

601. Lurker - May 19, 2013

Memory Alpha has a better memory than I do. Completely forgot that was a fake out. Thanks.

602. rogue_alice - May 19, 2013

My bottom line: This franchise could NOT have survived if it had not been rebooted. The series (of movies) were stiff and stodgy. Star Trek needed the infusion of new blood to appeal to the wider audience.

I, for one, am thrilled that my daughter (24) NOW has an interest in Star Trek. Many have been “converted”.

Bob Orci. Call me. I have ideas.

603. Konar - May 19, 2013

Did I see the same movie as the people who say this film glorified militarism? It did exactly the opposite. The entire purpose if this story was to acknowledge — and negate– the darkness brought into this universe by the events of the last film. We are left with the sense that it has been accomplished.

604. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

#597. ObsessiveStarTrekFan – May 19, 2013

As far as there being no “death” in the Vulcan Death Grip you are correct. But you, yourself, have also noted that it would be quite an effective “deathless” defense as a nerve pinch.

605. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 19, 2013

@604. Disinvited

Agreed – if that is what he was trying to do. But it took two hands in The Enterprise Incident. I’m still inclined to believe it was an attempted mental attack, especially given the standard nerve pinch hadn’t had much of an effect.

I did ‘cheat’ and looked up the corresponding scene in the novelization, which does refer to it as a nerve pinch, so you may be correct. However, as the Star Trek 2009 novelization had Spock pummeling a Romulan for information rather than melding with him (as actually happened in the movie), I reluctant to change my opinion… ;-)

606. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 19, 2013

…ahem… I *am* reluctant to change my opinion…

Too late in the night for me, I guess.

607. Rick-Jones - May 19, 2013

Sorry, it’s only my poor opinion, STID applauds military might above all else, tough PRETENDING, otherwise and offers cocodrile tears to te victims of the terrorism.Do victims of terrorism Want to see more terrorism in the big screen? More blood and massacre? What for? Or they want to forget the tragedy?

In my poor opinion, it’s not a tenet, only an opinion. Starfleet is not (must not) the US Army…It’s not the world police. In TOS they are explorers, they don’t say: “we are explorers” they are true explorers, in STID they say: “we’re explorers”, but in fact, they are not. This film say: ‘hey, guys, phaser better than tricorder (the silence of the tricorders is appaling in STID) Supermissiles better than words’. No utopia here, antiutopia, maybe, because this 23 century is the wild west…

In STID we have irrational technology, is magic technology (SWlike technology). You need a supertransporter Earth-Qo’noS (Qo’noS, please, not Kronos…)? ok. How does it work? Uhhh, It Works…It’s enough.

The main reboot ideas was: no more canon. A new universe , new explorations, “new strange worlds”, new challenges…

The new time line is a wonderful idead but it’s not , or it should not, MARVEL’s Ultimate universe

.ST must make the difference. Not only a very fun blockbuster. ST is the most important sci fi saga EVER. ST must (or try) make the difference. Next Interstellar, by Chris Nolan, is an ambitious project, for example…
People said: “Rick Berman always does the same thing. He must go, ST needs new blood.· OK. and the new blood do the same stuff (with more budget). Enterprise tv series is the father of STID. Enterprise tv series, ugg… but in Enterprise there is a bit of Trek soul. Maybe i’m blind. But, Where is the trek soul right now?

608. Bobby - May 19, 2013

@boborci – In one of these threads, months ago when we were trying to guess who the villain was going to be, you said something to the effect of “I never lied. Wait, I lied once.” – it sounded like there was an interesting story there but you couldn’t tell it until the movie was out.

Now that the movie is out, can you tell us what that was?

(I have a guess- it seems like you said once that it was NOT Khan but I can’t recall for sure. Maybe it wasn’t going to be Khan at first but you later changed your mind?)

If he’s answered this in another thread, let me know. :)

@anthony – I see lots of interesting posts here by boborci and mention of questions he’s answered in other threads. It’d be real helpful, if there’s interesting details from him, if you put the gist of it together into a news story. I’ve been avoiding the threads until after I saw the movie so I’ve missed a lot and now I’m not completely sure what other threads on the board to search.

Finally- my thoughts on the movie. I’m an old school, die hard Trekkie. The kind who usually hates these movies (?).

So, I loved it. Great movie. Better than the first. It addressed a lot of what I didn’t like about the first movie. The character interplay and dialog was much improved, they weren’t just caricatures. Engineering looked like engineering and even had a warp core. The lens flares were much less annoying this time around. Still present but not headache-inducing.

This movie felt like Star Trek.

I still prefer the 80s movies (probably always will – they’re classics). But this was fantastic and I can’t wait for the next installment. And these are WAY better than the TNG movies were.

609. Boulvard Denim - May 19, 2013

While I enjoyed the new Trek movie, something about the new version of the franchise leaves me wanting.

The acting, direction, editing, music and acting were ALL top notch. It was indeed a rollercoaster ride with some interesting sociological themes and well played.

Classic Trek (TOS, most of the first 6 films) often synthesized themes from classic literature with the science fiction and sociological ideas. Classic Trek is based in many ways on the literature of C.S. Forester, Shakespeare, Melville, Milton, Dickens, George Herbert, etc. Many literary allusions would tie in to the themes of tolerance, exploration, friendship, sacrifice, and duty. Nicolas Meyer understood this and infused his version of Trek with such themes (particularly TWoK).

J. J. Abrams and co. have successfully remade Trek for a modern post- literate society and done it beautifully. Although the 2009 film did have thematic references to Immanuel Kant and Arthur Conan Doyle, I must admit. I for one would appreciate more of that sort of thing that I feel is one of the true essences of Classic Trek.

610. Blowback - May 19, 2013

I will echo the sentiment of others that it is good to get a glimpse of 23rd century Earth outside of the purview of Star Fleet. There were glimpses of it in earlier movies and series (especially ENT) but seeing it adds texture and realism in my mind….

611. Ken - May 19, 2013

@407

You are missing the point again and again. And I say that respectfully. Seriously.

Race has zero to do with the complaints of people who are against Cumberbatch’s casting. Simply, his casting is an EPIC fail.

Why?

Because this movie is not a completely fresh reboot. It is basically a sequel to the original series and series of movies. The story being that Spock Prime from the original series changed the timeline.

So, in my opinion and others (though I can’t speak for them), it was incumbent upon the producers and creative team to cast someone who was not only a good actor but who also looked the part.

Not an exact copy of Montalban, but who bore a passing enough resemblance (as Pine does and as Quinto does etc) that we can suspend our disbelief and enjoy.

Cumberbatch is a great actor, but simply does not fit this bill.

The other option would have been to write the story in such a way that his character changes his appearance so as not to be recognized as the 20th Century genetically engineered being that he is.

It is as if someone decided to do a sequel to Kramer v. Kramer and because Dustin Hoffman wasn’t available, they decide to recast his character with Jackie Chan.

Or if Harrison Ford is not available for the next Star Wars movie (assuming his character is in it) and JJ decides that Solo will be so much older, he just has to have Jack Nicolson in the part.

Look, I really like JJ”s work and Damon’s and the creative team is good. But this casting, no matter how much people like the idea of an alternate universe (and I did like it), is simply an epic fail.

And although I like the actors individually. There is zero spark between them. People can say it’s because they’re pre 5 year mission and that’s the point. But, I disagree. They just don’t jell or mix well together.

And that’s just my subjective opinion and my two cents. Well, with inflation, probably about five bucks.

:-)

612. good but disappointed - May 19, 2013

I’ m no longer disappointed.

613. porthoses birch - May 19, 2013

Maybe Khan’s not Khan ? Well I guess the Answer lies with Spock prime…..does he recognize John Harrison ? He recognizes Pine as Kirk and after a beat recognizes Scotty.

For anyone who is talented at such a thing. I would love to experience the audio from Trek 3 ( where Kirk is kicking Kruge off the cliff…..) applied to the visual of Kirk kicking the reactor into place. “I have had enough of you!!!”

614. Captain Jack - May 19, 2013

Did it Occur to anyone that Admiral Marcus had Khan undergo surgery to change his skin tone and his facial features. Correct me if I am wrong but in Star Trek Lore there is medical technology to change the physical apperance of Starfleet officers when they are on missions or involved in First Contact. More than likely Marcus had Khans image changed to avoid anyone recognizing him. Marcus was obviously a military man and knew who Khan was and what he had done. He conceald his features in the event someone especially Starfleet personnel who knew history saw him. It Makes perfect sense. Of course the Eugenics Wars is remembered but its 300 years removed. Keep in mind that there was also the World War III, First Contact with Vulcan, and the Romulan Earth Wars.

How many of us would recognize a Civil War General if he were alive to day and was walking through downtown New York? Not many. Especially if they altered their features. The Botany Bay was exlied from Earth. A lot and I do mean a lot happened since that time at least in Trek history.

615. NCC-73515 - May 19, 2013

The haters who don’t see the deeper message in classic Trek tradition should read this:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/62477

616. Al - May 19, 2013

Sad box office numbers aside, has any Star Trek movie ever created this much divisiveness amongst fans?

617. Captain Jack - May 19, 2013

@Anthony

Are you going to have a Q and A with Bob like you did when the first film came out? Would love to ask some questions.

618. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

Okay, so what IS the big idea of this movie? They did what they said they were going to do and returned to Star Trek’s roots with a film that was really a comment about our times. There isn’t much talk about that going on anywhere that I’ve read.

The heroes in this movie may reflect our IDEALS, but they do not reflect US. Sadly, it’s Marcus who reflects what we actually do while Kirk and crew reflects what we ought to do—Scotty who gives up his career rather than do what he knows is wrong in principle. Kirk, who has more of a struggle with his desire for revenge, takes a little longer, but he too ultimately disobeys orders rather than to take indiscriminate drone-like potshots at the man he wants to kill from a position of safety. He puts his butt on the line to do the right thing rather than sit comfortably safe doing the wrong thing.

I hope Obama sees this movie and that it makes him squirm.

619. Riker001 - May 19, 2013

@ 609. Boulvard Denim:

I could not agree more with all your points! I think JJ has done a great job…and I think the acting is top notch…the crew is great and I’m looking forward to the next one..!

…but I think it would be nice…provided it makes sense…to reach into those authors and try to bring up some sort of story that is the overall backdrop…but again…it has to make sense and work.

I hope to in the next movie…they show the crew well into their 5 year mission and seasoned…especially Kirk…I like how at the end of this one he get’s the responsibility that comes with the Chari and the Prime Directive and I hope we see that it Kirk in the next films.

I also think they need to show the more kinship between Kirk, Spock and Bones…this time around they were all a bit busy…I think there should be a focus on that in the next movie and how these three became so tight..

620. boborci - May 19, 2013

608. Bobby

The lie was that I had lied.

621. boborci - May 19, 2013

603 Kona

DING DING DING! We have a winner.

622. boborci - May 19, 2013

590 Alt-Spock

Why not?

623. boborci - May 19, 2013

589. mjpeng – May 19, 2013

Happy to explain it to you if you can be more specific.

624. boborci - May 19, 2013

588. Tuvok – May 19, 2013

Sabotage.

625. An Old Codger - May 19, 2013

You know, the more I think about it, the more I see how 09 and STID are tied together. ST09 brought Nero and the technology of his ship into this reality, causing ‘some’ to fear the worst and build to counteract whatever darkness they envision. Clearly Admiral Marcus had others who knew?? Anyway, they are defeated and there is a hopeful ending with a 5 yr. mission. We will see the movie again tomorrow and I will watch it for those details which were lost (by me) in the 1st viewing.

626. ScottC - May 19, 2013

FYI, you can pre-order the movie now at Best Buy for $22.99 Blue-Ray ($29.99 3D Blue-Ray).

627. boborci - May 19, 2013

573. Marty

There is n o such thing as fixing the timeline. The rules of Quantum Mechanics apply here, not Back to the Future.

628. An Old Codger - May 19, 2013

626: Wow! Thanks… A little lower price on Amazon. Wonder if there will be a release with a digital copy as well as the blu-ray?

629. Mcflycat - May 19, 2013

621:

Well… Shouldn’t the movie be called OUT OF DARKNESS then? :)

630. Mike Thompson UK - May 19, 2013

Here in London, I’m going to see the film twice this week (IMAX 3D) with friends…getting excited.

631. ScottC - May 19, 2013

@boborci: will the 4 part IDW comic stories for John Harrison maybe address why Cumberbatch as Khan doesn’t look much like the classic Khan? Surgically altered maybe?

632. Mcflycat - May 19, 2013

@boborci. Yes please, can we get a hint on what is going to happen next week in addressing Khans appearance? Deleted scene? Statement? Comic?

633. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

It took me three viewings to really get what was happening in ST.09. While the “big idea” in this film isn’t as big as MWI, it’s going to be a lot more difficult for some people to face, because it shows us not just as who we are and the policies we tacitly and willingly accept, but it shows us what we fail to be, and what many in here are perfectly comfortably with us failing to be.

Star Trek may be going into darkness for this second installment, but we’ve been there for a very long time, and in the best of all possible dark worlds, this film can help to show us how we got there and how to get out.

Some of us already know this stuff, some will consider it for the first time, some will laugh it off, and some will prefer to fixate on the surface features which usually provide the fuel for the primary explosions in people’s complaints.

Using Khan and his easy understanding of Marcus and what he is up to was an excellent way to show more ignorant people what they actually have in common with James T. Kirk who in his innocence just doesn’t conceive of such monumental evil as Marcus represents as really being possible. Marcus wears a good guy hat, after all. How can he be bad?

Indeed. How can he.

Kirk may have been skeptical, but his heroism ultimately started with his decision to not laugh off what Khan said. Considering the source, Kirk could easily have ignored what Khan said, but Kirk had the intelligence to not do so.

How many of you will choose to listen given your next opportunity, and how many of you will laugh it off or add your wagon to the circle? How many of you are heroes, and how many of you are private contractors aboard the USS American Vengeance?

634. porthoses bitch - May 19, 2013

The Trek science speecial repeats on history at 1pm (est) lots of clips for nitpicking..

BOB ORCI; No cameo for you? C’mon……We’d love to see any of you guys snuck in there.

CAMEO for Anthony can we start the campaign now ???????

635. Mcflycat - May 19, 2013

The point of the movie is that now that we know khans blood can bring someone back from the dead humans will live eternally completely altering how we perceive the galaxy and universe.

Oh and something about the United States being evil or something…

636. Riker's Beard - May 19, 2013

@boborci

Really loved the movie, thanks. My question is this – bones makes a point of stating that Jim is not ok after the fight with the Klingons but that is never followed up on. I guess he got better?

637. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@633. dmduncan,

You are right of course. But what about the ending of the film.

Following your thread of thought, Khan turns out not only to be correct, but also untrustworthy, and ultimately psychotic (?). As we endeavor to be more like Kirk, do we likewise maintain a healthy mistrust of those who warn us of our own destructive patterns? Arguably, it is Kirk’s mistrust that pushes Khan over the edge into his penultimate rage.

And in the end, while not done at Kirk’s hand, the implication is the best thing to do with criminals such as Khan is hold them in limbo in their own out of sight frozen GTMO. Of course in Khan’s case there’s noone left to care. The fact that Kirk may be oblivious to this is no different than his perceived casual disregard of Khan’s fate on Ceti Alpha V in TWOK by never ever checking up on him. Perhaps a lesson here too that Kirk still must learn — eternal vigilance is the price of freedom? And in that regard still has much to learn, as do we.

638. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

Oh, a special word for Bob:

I did a lot of ranting in here about never again wanting to see that tired old cliche where the hero has to defuse a bomb and is faced with the choice of which wire to cut.

So imagine my HORROR when the same thing appeared to be happening in this movie when Marcus has to defuse the torpedo. “OH you have GOT to be KIDDING!!!” was my reaction.

Then she pulls off the shielding and there ARE NO wires and she pulls out all the guts.

Hilarious. Thank you for ALMOST giving me a heart attack. And a bigger thank your for NOT. For me, personally, that was a priceless moment. :-)

639. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

637: “And in the end, while not done at Kirk’s hand, the implication is the best thing to do with criminals such as Khan is hold them in limbo in their own out of sight frozen GTMO.”

GITMO? I didn’t see that. You could argue that Khan got want he wanted by being refrozen. “You should have let me SLEEEEP!” he told Marcus before killing him. The BB crew-members all chose their limbo. Nobody puts them-self in GITMO. Khan was returned to that condition he put himself in really. A more apt GITMO reference would have been one where he was kept imprisoned, awake, without trial. A condition one would typically not choose to be in and that flouts our own law.

640. Tom - May 19, 2013

Saw the movie a second time. I just love all the options left for the next movie. Could be Khan, Klingons, any other of TOS characters that we can meet during the 5 year mission. Plus can be something totally new.

Message for Bob: The Quantum Mechanics was brilliant. Look at all the possibilities created without knowing the outcome. I realize it isnt about “fixing” the timeline as you say but perhaps Spock Prime needs to go back to his. He just needs to leave the holographic pendant with someone before he goes back

641. T Negative - May 19, 2013

Great movie!!! Lots of action and the story was outstanding! Been watching trek since the 70′s and I thought it was an awesome new twist on the Khan story. I did not want it to end and left the theater wanting more. Congrats to JJ Abrams, bob orci and co to for making a great addition to the Trek universe!!

642. Dunsel Report - May 19, 2013

I want to apologize formally for claiming months earlier that there was no chance Section 31 and “augments” would show up in the movie. :(

643. Martin D. - May 19, 2013

@618 – Because STID does what ST does so frequently, presenting an allegory of a present-day conflict or moral issue, and then frustratingly _not_ having any obvious, undeniable stance on the issue. It’s a movie where you almost want the preachy Picard from e.g. “Justice” at the end, or maybe a classic TOS-style exchange on the bridge with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy just so that the movie has something definite to say at all.

“Terrorism and militarism are both bad and can give rise to each other” might be the implied message here, but it’s not really much of a message unless a character says it out loud like TOS episodes managed to do. Everything else is just the writers trying to please everybody by ambiguity.

Kirk does not order the drone strike here because of…. what exactly? Habitual diregard of orders I guess or maybe because he wanted to take Harrison alive out of principle? The precise motivations were very unclear. I could easily see how some very pro-military guy would watch STID and side with Admiral Marcus’ viewpoint. Just as in the last movie, Kirk’s decisions seemed to be spontaneous and not overly concerned with morality. That they conincide with the moral high ground in this case seemed to be more like a happy accident, not the results of deep thinking about an issue.

Of course to be fair, even in TWOK, McCoy only gets a line or two of criticism of Genesis in before Kirk and Spock tell him to shut up. Looking back at all the ST movies, it’s funny that the one with the most Trekkish discussion of moral issues among Starfleet members was “Insurrection”, not exactly a big fan favorite to put it mildly. Still, at least Picard’s gunslinging in that movie was based on a moral argument that had some memorable lines and good acting and was a highlight of the movie.

All this does not mean that I want ST to be more preachy, just that one should not expect the average viewer or reviewer of STID to pick up on the Afghanistan/drone strike overtones because this aspect is so timidly and fleetingly realized.

644. boborci - May 19, 2013

643 you are high on crack. The movie certainly takes a position. Pay attention, man.

645. Konar - May 19, 2013

He didn’t order the drone strike because Spock convinced him to stop, think and reconsider… How much more clear could it be?

646. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 19, 2013

@643. Martin D. – May 19, 2013

‘“Terrorism and militarism are both bad and can give rise to each other” might be the implied message here, but it’s not really much of a message unless a character says it out loud like TOS episodes managed to do. ‘

I thought Kirk did just that with his speech at the rededication ceremony. I don’t remember the exact words, but it was something like: our first instinct is for revenge, but that is not who we are…

647. sean - May 19, 2013

#594

How about we use the entire quote:

“This is a sad, sad reflection on our times, when people must feed off the carcasses of beloved stories from their youths—just because they can’t think of an original idea of their own, like I did with my Avengers idea that I made up myself. ”

His comment was tongue-in-cheek, and was made with regard to the Kazui’s making a Buffy film without him.

648. boborci - May 19, 2013

porthoses bitch

Cameo? Nothing ruins a movie for me more than seeing my ugly face in it! I am in one second of Mission Impossible 3, and it ruins the movie for me.

649. TJ - May 19, 2013

@BobOrci

Thanks to you and the guys for an amazing movie. It was absolutely amazing. Thank-you for a film that reflected the struggle over the ideals of starfleet and the threats against it. Very cool. It was like you guys were answering your critics who accused you guys of straying from Roddenberrys vision. Next film we need a Klingon War. Michael Dorn as Chancellor Worf (Grandfather of Worf from Next Gen)

Carol Marcus with a baby bump (Just Kidding) Thanks man for a great movie.

650. Chain of Command - May 19, 2013

@Bob Orci

First off, I really enjoyed the film. I love seeing all the attention being taken to give Star Trek the epic scale it has always deserved.

Question(s): What was the main impetus for bringing back Khan? Was it pressure from the studio or was it a case of, “Hey, you know what guys (to your fellow creative partners), let’s do it!”

I guess the reason why I’m asking is because I’m sure you knew going into it what a contentious debate you would get amongst the fans. Did you ever have a moment where you asked, “Are we sure we want to do this”?
After all, though it was made cheaply back in the day, “Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan” is the gold standard of the Trek films. Would you agree?

651. sean - May 19, 2013

#643

But that moral is the underlying theme of the entire movie. It couldn’t have been any more plain unless the characters stopped, turned to the camera and said, ‘Preemptive war is bad!’.

652. Red Dead Ryan - May 19, 2013

#618.

“I hope Obama sees this movie and that it makes him squirm.”

I doubt it. Obama has no conscience, only ego and narcissism.

Anyway, I agree with your points on the movie.

653. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

643: “Kirk does not order the drone strike here because of…. what exactly? Habitual diregard of orders I guess or maybe because he wanted to take Harrison alive out of principle?”

I could only see the movie once so far and even I caught on my first pass that Scotty’s impassioned plea to Kirk before leaving had worked.

Comparing this movie to TNG and Picard’s monologuing suggests you are unwilling to piece the picture together without unusually specific guidance.

This movie’s position is VERY clear.

654. Buzz Cagney - May 19, 2013

Shat had this little habit of kind of twiddling his fingers just back and forth a little when Kirk was thinking about a situation- yes, I do watch him that closely! I notice young Chris was doing it too! Nice!!

There are an awful lot of little things like that in there. Like it or not there is no denying the attention to detail. It is impressive and some of which are only spotted on a second (or more) viewing.

There was some serious love went into making the movie.

655. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

652. Red Dead Ryan – May 19, 2013

Oh, especially in the privacy of his screening room, I think he can still squirm.

656. Al - May 19, 2013

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2013/05/19/weekend-box-office-star-trek-into-darkness-opens-with-just-84-million/

657. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@640. Tom,.
“I realize it isnt about “fixing” the timeline as you say but perhaps Spock Prime needs to go back to his.”

Because of QM MWI, he can’t. He can only die in this one, or time travel to yet another alternate timeline and risk screwing it up as well.

This just made me realize, Prime Spock can never finally die in the Prime timeline as did Kirk, and Data (maybe that’s a good thing). He will forever be listed as MIA. Kind of sad actually.

658. Toonloon - May 19, 2013

Thanks Defiant.

@boborci. I don’t know I’d you read an interview that Stallone have a couple of years ago. He said that in the rocky saga, when he wrote mickey out, he felt the heart had gone from the movies.

Although I wouldn’t agree 100%, I really think we’re going to miss Pike in the next movie. You made they character so effective as a mentor then as a surrogate father figure that I fear we’ll feel his loss in ST3. Looking forward to what you do next. Do you have to wait for Star Wars to wrap before you start work on the next scrip or are you guys free to bat ideas around and then work with the others next year?

659. Red Dead Ryan - May 19, 2013

Khan was the lesser evil in this movie. Admiral Marcus was the more dangerous man. He had a high position in Starfleet, used his Section 31 card to build himself a ship of mass destruction, and intended to use Khan and his men as pawns in his crusade to destroy the Klingons once and for all. Marcus was perfectly willing to sacrifice not only the Enterprise, but his own daughter as well in the process. When that failed, Marcus attempted to dupe the Enterprise into firing photon torpedoes (carrying the augments) at the Klingon homeworld.

Khan became the enemy only after defeating and killing Admiral Marcus.

Kirk knew that Khan couldn’t be controlled, or trusted, but had to work with him to stop Marcus, who was even more dangerous.

Kirk didn’t want to kill Khan because a lot of blood had already been spilled, and he knew that Starfleet had some responsibility to bear in Admiral Marcus’ dangerous ambitions against the Klingon Empire.

Killing Khan would have meant shifting the blame away from Starfleet and Section 31, and Kirk knew that, despite Khan’s own crimes committed during the movie.

Putting Khan back into the cryotube was the most humane, and just, manner of controlling the supermen.

660. philip - May 19, 2013

@bob orci, Just do some well done “flashback” moments with Pike in the next film for Kirk to have. So we can see areas where Pike mentored Kirk in specifically, in between the events of 1 and 2, or even while he’s at the Academy before Nero wipes out Vulcan. Easy fix for not having his character still alive.

661. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@639. dmduncan,
(Sorry if this duplicates, the first attempt disappeared)
Not sure he was asking for self imposed exile. To me “You should have let me SLEEEEP!” says ‘you shouldn’t have messed with me’. Though I dont have as many viewings as you.

Nevertheless, If that scene isn’t an allusion to the Citizen Kane/Raiders of the Lost Ark warehouse scene (especially considering the opening), I don’t know what is. And it has a number of clear implications in those films, so I dont see why it shouldn’t here. Turning the stored ‘box’ into an actual human being certainly raises others.

Khan never intended to stay in that sleeper ship for 300 years. So to say it was self imposed is not really true. I doubt putting him back in stasis would have been his choice either. In that sense, I’m not sure how this is much different than GTMO (GITMO?). His life is being suspended against his will. He knows it going in, and he knows it should he ever come out again; and I doubt he will be pleased by it — talk about wrath of Khan, now he does have a reason to seek vengeance. His statement to Marcus seems to also carry the implication that they should either kill him, or let him go, but now that they have awakened him, they have to deal with him. It’s clear you don’t agree but putting him back into stasis is equivalent in my mind with sticking an “enemy” into GTMO without charging and scentencing them or letting them know when they will get out. Although it also conjures up the apparent abandonment on Ceti Alpha V as well — left and forgotten.

662. Matt - May 19, 2013

Bob, Could Kirk have been saved with Tribble blood?

663. Actual - May 19, 2013

Watched TWOK yesterday after seeing STID on Friday.

Yeah….TWOK’s crown is safe.

664. Red Dead Ryan - May 19, 2013

What I especially liked about the movie, was the progression and maturity of the characters, in particular, Kirk, Spock and Scotty.

James T. Kirk, after being demoted, and especially after Admiral Pike’s death, finally began to understand the responsibility that comes with commanding a ship, so that when he is promoted back to captain by Admiral Marcus, he has the wisdom and maturity to acknowledge when he’s wrong, and not to give into desires of revenge against Khan for Pike’s death.

Spock came to understand his role, and was now able to see Kirk as the leader that he is. Not only that, but he himself became wiser and more mature during the movie. He was still emotional at times–he cried when Kirk died–but tempered that with traditional Vulcan discipline and logic.

Scotty I thought didn’t really get a fair shake in the last movie. He was more comic relief. This time, we not only get to see him perform as a “miracle worker” in sabotaging the Vengeance’s weapons, but he stands up for what is right. He (albeit briefly) resigns in protest when he is ordered by Kirk to load photon torpedoes onto the Enterprise that he notices are highly suspicious.

Sulu had a nice role, briefly commanding the Enterprise while the command crew were away.

McCoy had a lot of good moments in the movie.

Uhura was excellent.

All in all, I enjoyed the progress of the main characters. And there were times in the movie that Chris Pine reminded me of William Shatner during TOS. I don’t think anyone can cast doubt on Pine anymore.

665. marty - May 19, 2013

627.

@boborci

if the enterprise can go back and forward in time like in ‘the voyage home’, and if prime spock can find some more red matter.. of course the timeline can be fixed ;)

666. Mark - May 19, 2013

Khan was a terrorist and all that happened to him was that he was frozen again (and probably will get freed by someone later on). Doesn’t make sense to me.

667. Anonymous Poster - May 19, 2013

I watched the movie today and did not like it as much as I hoped I would.

The development of the main characters and their interactions were great, I liked how the pacing seemed to generally pick up as soon as they reached Kronos and the score was a vast improvement over the ST 09 music. I also liked the scene with McCoy and Carol Marcus on that derelict planet trying to disarm the torpedo. The landscape photography of that scene caught me by surprise in a positive way.

Perhaps the greatest revelation was Benedict Cumberbatchs performance. I myself had no trouble at all picturing him as Khan. Unfortunately he did have very little screen time, but there was enough for me to enjoy, particularly the scenes where he came across as a person. Whenever he lost himself in some megalomanical line though and I guess was instructed to use some comic grimace on every line he delivers I thought “Ok, no JJ, I do not want to have a beer with that guy”.

That was one of the main things that bothered me I guess. Plus I really got the feeling they didn’t make the movie as a vehicle to tell that story, but rather out of the desperation of having to tell a story. They could’ve won me over if they had made Khan an actual good guy but went with the bleaker and pessimistic option there. I hope the next movie will be a little more exciting and compelling.

I have to get back to watching Paul Greengrass, David Fincher and Christopher Nolan movies now and be angry and sad all day long.

668. Red Dead Ryan - May 19, 2013

#661.

Starfleet knew that Khan was physically (and intellectually) superior to humans and Vulcans, and was very cunning as well. They understood that it was a huge risk to try and haul him into court. Admiral Marcus, with his resources, couldn’t control him.

Starfleet couldn’t legally execute him because they don’t have the death penalty. Plus it goes against Federation values and principles.

The only humane way of controlling Khan in this instance was to put him back into the cryotube. Put him back to sleep. There would be no suffering for him. The Guantanamo comparison doesn’t work because a) most of the detains were arrested on suspicion alone with no hard evidence of any crimes they were accused of committing. Khan, on the other hand, would be featured in a lot of footage, and there would be a lot of forensic evidence to back up the testimony of Kirk and co. b) Detainees at Guantanamo are being kept in deplorable conditions, with no rights, and reports of abuse and torture, if true, suggest a lot of suffering and misery. Khan and his men aren’t being tortured. They are being held in cryotubes because that is the best, and most humane method of controlling them because of their superior physical and intellectual skills.

669. HubcapDave - May 19, 2013

@666

Anthony is rather diligent at weeding out fakers.

670. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

Putting Ret-Khan back in his tube with the rest of his people is the best solution.

Having the trial of Khan would mean having the trial of the Marcus cabal in Starfleet. While that is what the TNG ethic would require — and the TOS ethic, too, as we know from Star Trek VI — it’s best just to close this chapter out and move on.

Both for purposes of simply getting beyond this controversial story in the franchise, and for purposes of serving the darker post-Nero world view of this new branched universe.

Besides, this way we get the Raiders of the Lost Ark-style ending to go with the Raiders of the Lost Ark-style beginning.

The circle is complete.

671. Christian2508 - May 19, 2013

@BobOrci:
Please call Many Coto for the net Movie.
So yu have new ideas and not only refreshed ideas of old movies or episodes.

Enterprise season 4 was the Best one since many many years!
He can push Star Trek 13, like he pushed Dexter to one of the most public series of the world.

672. Diskhanbobulated - May 19, 2013

Having seen the film twice now and then reading Pegg’s comments about Weller’s character, it would seem that the Vengeance was built by Halliburton. Hope we get back to exploring strange new worlds in the next film. #facepalm

673. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

661. Curious Cadet – May 19, 2013

Well Khan wasn’t planning on being awakened to become a workhorse for Starfleet either, but that’s what he became. In Space Seed he references himself as once having been an engineer of sorts, and that’s whatl he became for Starfleet. A demotion from world leader, to be sure.

And the old Khan is still here. He has no intention of going back to sleep. What I think Khan is saying is that given what he was and what he became for Starfleet, sleep was the preferable option.

Clearly he’s out of place in this future, but he’s a lion, and a lion will do as lions do, so he can’t be turned loose either.

And though I didn’t catch it at first, the movie DOES end the way I wanted. It may not be Montalban under glass in some warehouse in the role, but it is Khan.

674. Rick-Jones - May 19, 2013

Boborci, 2 questions, please:

1-Have you ever read, STAR TREK, SECTION 31. ABYSS?

2-Is STID a masqued reboot of NEMESIS?

ln this movie the villain is a guy created by scientifics in lab, manipulating Dna.
This guy smashs romulan senate and romulan praetor.
This guy will betray his ally-the romulan militaristic party.
This guy has a superspaceship, and he wants to destroy Earth.
His superbattleship will halfdestroy Enterprise E and an important Enterprise´s crewperson will die.

675. Bobby - May 19, 2013

620 – boborci

LOL – thanks.

You’ll be glad to know that one comment of yours stirred up lots of interesting debate (which I wasn’t part of, but I got some amusement from reading). As I’m sure you intended.

Well played.

:-)

676. Mark - May 19, 2013

The movie takes place in 2259 I believe. If Khan’s been frozen for 300 years, that’s 1959. Why not make it 200 years and that would have been 2059?

677. Kirk, yes really - May 19, 2013

Hey Bob
I’ve only posted a couple times but wanted to say thanks to you and the whole team for a great time! I mentioned before that I had been diagnosed with cancer back in 2009 and was really hoping to make it to see the re-boot. Which I did. Obviously I made it four years and was totally blown away by STID! I have a feeling I’ll be around for number three. If you happen to catch ABC World News tonight, and you notice a few too many lens flare transitions in one of the stories, consider it my subtle attempt at a an homage and a thank you. And to all my fellow Trek fans, enjoy each day, each minute and every frame….

678. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

Anyone else think Gatt 2000 was an interesting addition to the bridge crew?

679. Mark - May 19, 2013

The movie takes place in 2259 I believe. That would make Khan frozen in 1959 (300 years). Why not change it to 200 years frozen since 2059?

680. Exverlobter - May 19, 2013

BTW, does Khan really say
“You should have let me sleep!” in the original english version to Admiral Marcus?
That sounds totally hilarious!
In the german version they translated the sentence with
“You should not have awaken me” which sounds better because You should have let me sleep” sounds as if Khan has got a bad hangover, lol

681. Craiger - May 19, 2013

I saw Sturgis from JAG on the Vengeance.

682. Redwood - May 19, 2013

Saw the movie in 3D yesterday. No lengthy review. Just want to say well done. It was a nice visual feast, with a good story, albeit a little rushed. Love the call backs to the original TWOK. And it sets the stage to move forward into many more original stories….. Overall, I loved it!

683. Mark - May 19, 2013

oops…original post just popped up…sorry for duplicates

684. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Bob was Gatt 2000 TOS’ DATA?

Bob, also saw Hawaii 5-0 is moving to Friday’s. Is that a bad sign for the series?

685. Exverlobter - May 19, 2013

@681

Yeah, for about 1 second, lol

686. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Sorry I meant and homage to TNG’s DATA

687. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@675. dmduncan,
“What I think Khan is saying is that given what he was and what he became for Starfleet, sleep was the preferable option. Clearly he’s out of place in this future, but he’s a lion, and a lion will do as lions do, so he can’t be turned loose either.”

I can agree to that.

However, Kirk had a pretty good solution in Space Seed. Now if somebody had just checked up on them … One could argue that’s the most humane disposition for the occupants of the Botany Bay.

In-universe for a moment …Khan is out of place in almost any future. Essentially he leads a race of people who are bent on galactic domination and oppression, like the Borg. Doesn’t matter why. It’s his nature, as is the nature of other aliens throughout Star Trek. So how does the Federation deal with them? The Klingons for instance?

Transplanting Khan and his people to their own planet to create a race of billions of “supermen” over the course of centuries would surely produce an inevitable foe to be reckoned with some day, even if monitored. In that regard, what Kirk tried may have been initially humane, but ultimately a mistake. Or maybe they would have wared with each other until they naturally exterminated each other. Or perhaps natural selection would have mellowed them out in order to survive in a society together.

Either way, what was the message TOS attempted to imply by Kirk’s original actions? What is the message Orci wants us to infer here? Or is it simply a meaningless set up for a future film? Regardless there are real world implications to examine.

688. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Pre-Order STID on BluRay and get a Phaser.

http://collider.com/star-trek-into-darkness-blu-ray-starfleet-phaser/

689. sean - May 19, 2013

#676

Because they weren’t speaking in precise figures, and Khan was frozen in 1996. It’s like someone saying something happened a decade ago, when it was actually 7 years ago. People tend to round things off.

690. steve - May 19, 2013

Been a Trek fan since 1968. It took me about 4-5 viewings of the first JJ film to finally conclude that it was the BEST of all the Trek films, better than Wrath of Khan. So I was hugely hopeful for Into Darkness. And hugely disappointed.

I only had two hopes for this film: 1. that it NOT be Khan, and 2. that it NOT be 3D. Having lost the second hope, I was absolutely positive that JJ & Co. wouldn’t make the Khan mistake. I mean, they lovingly and perfectly rebooted Trek last time, and finally took it mainstream. So WHY would they ever go back and do a Khan story? That only appeals to hard core Trek fans, many of whom seem to never want anything new, just more of the same (to me, the biggest mystery of Trek fandom…)

All that said, if it had been a great film, I could’ve dealt with it. But there were just so many problems:

1. A great movie needs a great villain. Sure, Cumberbatch was great in the role. That is, when he actually had some screen time. Seemed like he had maybe 20 lines of real dialogue in the whole film. Why bother to revisit a classic villain like Khan and not feature him in the movie? Clearly Marcus was the real villain of the film (continuing the mystifying Trek tradition of making any non-Enterprise Federation personnel out to be either bungling bureaucrats, emotionless politicians, or just plain dweebs…) Leading to problem #2…

2. It wasn’t really a remake of WoK, as much as it was a remake of The Undiscovered Country. Which is an even more perplexing creative decision, as while that film was decent, it surely wasn’t material worthy enough for a huge-budget JJ film.

3. A serious lack of Kirk/Spock/McCoy moments. One brilliance of the first film was that it gave all 7 major characters their moments (Takei must’ve really been bummed to see John Cho given such a chance to shine in the last movie…) But we all know that the core of Trek is the relationship between the big 3. I’m all for exploring the Spock/Uhura romance, which I thought was a fantastic idea. But in this movie, it seemed to crowd out the opportunities for the top 3. Leading to problem 4…

4. A SERIOUS Karl Urban deficiency!!! Every critic in the world raved about Urban’s performance in the last movie, deservedly so. He was just brilliant as a young McCoy. He was so underutilized in this film. Criminally so.

5. Trading Pike for Marcus. Bruce Greenwood just absolutely nailed the Pike role in both movies. I know it would’ve been tough to continue finding a role for him in the new movies, but losing him is just too big a loss. Especially when it appears that Carol Marcus may become a regular character. Her storyline in this movie was really weak, seemingly only there to pull McCoy out of a jam and slap her dad when needed.

6. A serious humor-ectomy in the new film. I’m one of the ones who’s completely OKAY with going dark in Trek. It’s why DS9 is my favorite Trek series. But the film still could’ve had a few laughs here and there. Personally I only chuckled at one line in the film (“Never trust a Vulcan”…)

7. The 3D. One word: ouch. OK, seems like maybe they figured out the brightness problem; the 3D here didn’t look nearly as dark as most recent movies. But the flicker problem was just massive. The 3D looked great, until either the camera panned or an actor moved. And when it got to the big action scenes, it felt like we were seeing a film shot at 16fps, with about a third of the frames missing. I know most people can’t see the flicker effect in today’s 3D, but for those of us who can, it’s pretty bad.

I could go on, but the real disappointment of the film comes down to the choice of Khan as villain, the decision to remake Trek 6 as main plotline, the decision to have two villains instead of one, and not utilizing Cumberbatch’s great on screen presence.

I knew walking out of the theater on Friday that the box office numbers were going to be trouble, and as of today, it’s not looking great. I’m just hoping that it’s good enough to green light a third film, with a decent enough budget so we don’t go back to the days of low-budget Trek films.

And I’m hoping and praying that given how this film ended, next time, we’ll FINALLY get a great, smart, and ORIGINAL story with this fantastic new cast and timeline.

691. sean - May 19, 2013

#666

Anthony monitors IP addresses to prevent fake accounts. Be prepared to be banned, as he’s warned against doing the very thing you’re doing.

692. Porthos - May 19, 2013

@BobOrci

Was Science Officer 0178 a creation of one of the Soongs? There was an Arik Soong on ST Enterprise. I was just wondering if you guys make or will make that connection should you use him in a future film?

693. sean - May 19, 2013

#687

I’d say freezing *is* the most humane solution. Starfleet doesn’t go in for executions, but you can’t let a lunatic like Khan go free, either. He isn’t aware of the passage of time while frozen, so it’s hardly cruel. Plus it gives Starfleet time to ponder what to do.

694. sean - May 19, 2013

#690

RE: #6 – Really? I thought this movie had far more humor than even 2009, it just wasn’t so slapstick as some of those jokes were.

695. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@681. Mark,
“The movie takes place in 2259 I believe. That would make Khan frozen in 1959 (300 years). Why not change it to 200 years frozen since 2059?”

Because that’s not canon, and everything that happened before 2233 is exactly the same as it was on TOS … LOL sorry couldn’t keep a straight face.

However, he wasn’t frozen 300 years earlier. He was born 300 years earlier. In 1996 when Khan was frozen, he was about 37 (Montalban was 47 when Space Seed was filmed), so he would have been born around 1959. He’s also likely rounding so give or take 15 or so years either direction. This makes him the product of a post war genetic engineering program likely rooted in the Nazi effort of the 30s and 40s. However, considering the DNA code wasn’t deciphered until 1966, it’s amazing what they were able to accomplish with Khan and his ilk.

696. anon - May 19, 2013

I’m the guy who posted under ‘boborci’ in #666. That was the one and only time I’ve done it to prove a point.

If Anthony bans me, oh well. But he’s let William Bradley go on and on.. so I see no fault in simply doing 1 post to prove that all the ‘boborci’ posts might not actually be the real guy.

I just see everyone begging and asking Roberto Orci for info and questions, it has to be tempting for people to fake responses as him.

Personally, the only way I’ll ever believe Bob Orci on this site is from an interview from Anthony. Anything else can be faked, sadly.

697. Mark - May 19, 2013

689
I would have changed the whole 1996 Eugenics War/WWIII thing. It’s not the 60′s anymore. It’s 2013 so I’d move Khan’s origin to sometime in our future.

698. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

6687: “Either way, what was the message TOS attempted to imply by Kirk’s original actions”

Give the lion and his pride their territory.

680: There are a lot of funny lines in the film. That is not one of them.

699. Red Dead Ryan - May 19, 2013

It’s also possible that Starfleet may have attempted to bring Khan to trial, but Section 31 took him and his fellow supermen away from them via overriding executive powers and placed him in a top secret location only they know about.

That would make sense. They couldn’t control Khan this time, and they don’t want to risk losing/destroying a still potentially valuable asset by either exiling him on a deserted planet, or by execution.

Remember, Section 31 had been using augmented human DNA as a method of containing the Klingon threat a hundred years prior to the movie.

Section 31 sees the Klingon Empire as a mortal threat to Earth, and they won’t stop using any advantage they can to contain the threat they percieve and will continue to use the augments and/or augment DNA as possible detterents/weapons/agents.

700. Craiger - May 19, 2013

We are also forgetting about the Organian’s. They told Kirk that the Federation and the Klingon’s will work together in the future.

701. Richard - May 19, 2013

Wow! 4 years and all they could come up with was a Wrath Of Khan rip off

702. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Not sure if they will do the same thing in the alternate universe.

703. flywithsean - May 19, 2013

first of all someone needs to get control of this website.

secondly I am very disappointed by how poorly the opening weekend was for Trek. It couldn’t even top the 2009 and that is with 3D money. So all these haters need to quit it because if this movie flops then Star Trek will be done.

704. Red Dead Ryan - May 19, 2013

And remember too, there is also the potential of the Borg showing up a lot earlier in this timeline. Section 31 would most likely be possesion of the information about the Borg gathered by Captain Archer a century ago, as well as the info on the make-up of the Narada.

So, not only are there Klingons to worry about, but the prospect of an ealier-than-the-prime-universe Borg invasion.

At this point in time in the prime universe (2230s-onward) Section 31 seemed to be dormant. However, since the Narada incident in 2233, the secret agency would have a more prominent role, as well as political influence within Starfleet and the Federation as a whole.

705. steve - May 19, 2013

#694 Sean:

Humor is definitely subjective. I’m going to see the flick again next week (just to see it in old-school big-square-screen Imax…), so I’ll keep an ear open for lines I might’ve missed…

Gotta add #8 though:

8. Homage or not? Once you realized the filmmakers were going to repeat the WoK ending, with Spock and Kirk reversing roles, you had to evaluate it based on whether it was a successful homage to WoK, or just redundant screenwriting. For me, it was the latter. My reaction to each sequence and each line of dialogue at that point became, yep, they used that line from WoK, and that line, and that line… (Granted it may play better for people who haven’t seen WoK twenty or so times like I have…) It just had zero emotional impact compared to the original, when we didn’t know for sure whether the filmmakers were really going to kill off Spock. But this time, we all knew that they weren’t really going to kill off Kirk, knowing that all the actors are already signed for the third film. So just no emotional resonance at all.

But it does speak again to the strange dichotomy of the film. The studio correctly wanted to take Trek mainstream, especially in international markets, and yet here we have the big finale playing out almost entirely to only hard core Trek fans. Just made no sense to me.

706. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@698. dmduncan,
“Give the lion and his pride their territory.”

So, give the Palestinians their land back?

707. Red Dead Ryan - May 19, 2013

#700.

Sure, but remember, it was decades before peace with the Klingons was reached. And even then, it wasn’t entirely benign. There was a brief war in the early 2370′s.

By the way, I just have to wonder now if Section 31 was behind the plot to assassinate Chancellor Gorkon. Kind of makes you wonder what else Section 31 was doing in the shadows (Prime Universe).

708. Matt Wright - May 19, 2013

#695 – Your fake Bob Orci post has been removed. Don’t do it again. Anthony knows who’s real and who is not and he tries hard to prevent it. Currently all other responses here are indeed legitimate Bob Orci, so let’s keep it that way.

709. SDF-1 - May 19, 2013

To all those stickler for “details” this is your doing…

“Rightly or wrongly(i inserted this part…Wrongly is the correct choice), fanboys (who are notoriously hard to please) saw the sequel as a ripoff of 1982′s The Wrath Of Khan.”

http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/star-trek-into-darkness-3d-opens-to-2m-late-night-and-imax/

my fellow Trekkies there is a difference with wanting everything we want to see and what we see in movies.Criticism is valid and i have some myself (miss the old blue or red phasers not the star wars like blaster we saw in ST09 and ST:ID. also red photon torpedo, i miss the look of the original ship update if you have to..etc… trust me there is more i would like to go back too.) However, This Trek is trying to get the young demographic that we have lost(yes, debatable), Good or Bad that comes with this attempt.

I hope that because this showing didn’t make the money it was supposed to make we don’t have to wait another 4+ years. Granted 50th anniversary is coming but that doesn’t mean paramount will make another movie or even a show. they could say its not worth the money to spend on another movie or show that gets fanboys/girls pissed off for every dam detail complaining about “ripping-off” a previous movie,etc.. Yeah they got $75-$80 million. But if we believe $100 million is what we were going to make and miss it by 20 million we have a problem.. maybe someone did this or didn’t do that. Issue like that will come up…and delay a movie.

I know i am complaining like the critic’s. I believe we are missing an opportunity to expand(current timeline) and relate to this great franchise with our constant whining. i am all ears to criticism.

@674 Also the fact of the matter is that Khan read the data tapes from the old series to understand the technology. That why in Wrath of Khan… Spock and Kirk understood how devastating the attack by the Reliant was. Kirk” He knew where to hit us a why.” Spock-”one thing is for sure we cannot escape on auxiliary power.”

Also he didn’t have any access to resources in the original series and TWOK. This khan was part of Starfleet (blackmailed) and was able to help design a ship of War(Tactical skills far superior than Starfleets) with his superior genetically altered brain> all because of the superior intellect

@677 Preach on.. enjoy every minute because when its gone. its gone

@678 yeah that was cool to see that.

I await the many responses…

710. JR DURDAN - May 19, 2013

To the Supreme Court.
Please, I beg, from numerous Trekkers, get rid of Transwarp Beaming. It was questionable in the first movie, but at least there it moved the plot forward and cut down some travel time. Here it destroys the willing suspension of disbelief, destroys the very nature of the need for Starships and, most importantly, in no way adds anything scientifically plausible to Trek.

And to those who asked for Khan in this picture, I think those who said it was not a good idea were right. It is to early in this iteration of Trek to bring in Khan. It was a waste of a character.

I also agree with those who say that the interaction of the trinity was lacking. Indeed it felt like a step back, Kirk because less likable, Spock seems more socially awkward, and McCoy seemed like he had little to do.

We lose Pike, and it looks like Chapel will never be part of the crew, but Kirk gets to have a Captains Woman? Can we reset this movie and maybe do something more original.

And why, with all the Starships that the fleet has, have they not done a 5 year mission until now? I recall a Trek novel where the Federation met the Borg much earlier than TNG, and this caused UFP to start on the path to becoming the Mirror Universe. I see that happening here. A hugely militarized Federation that evolves in to a police state run by Section 31.

I realize this was suppose to be allegorical to post 9/11 USA, but it was just so muddled. The message got lost between the explosions and the lack of character development.

711. Horatio Snowblower - May 19, 2013

I find it hilarious that people complain about Cumby not being Indian when Ricardo wasn’t either but Hispanic! Considering the length of the British occupation and influence in India, Cumby actually makes more sense playing someone from India than a Hispanic actor! Movie was awesome and so was Cumby as Khan!

712. Craiger - May 19, 2013

One thing I thought about with Transwarp beaming is maybe its designed for only a couple of people and not a whole ships crew?

713. dmduncan - May 19, 2013

705. Curious Cadet – May 19, 2013

@698. dmduncan,
“Give the lion and his pride their territory.”

So, give the Palestinians their land back?

***

First things first. My indigenous American brothers and sisters have been fighting terrorism since 1492. Let Americans start correcting their mistakes by giving some of THIS land back before talking about Palestinians all the time as if the problem is always somewhere else.

714. steve - May 19, 2013

708:

No Trek film is either going to be a huge hit or huge failure based on how it plays to us Trekkies (and yes, I bear that title proudly, as I did even back in the ’70s era of the whole “Trekkies” vs. “Trekkers” argument…) Because there just aren’t numerically enough of us to drive the box office numbers It’s going to be a hit or not based on how it plays to the mainstream. We Trekkies can fawn over or complain about every micro-detail, and it won’t impact the box office one bit.

THAT was one lesson that was never learned by the old Trek-masters, especially Rick Berman and company, who almost killed Trek completely in the end.

For me, it all became clear in a little thought experiment I came up with years ago. Go up to anyone, and say the following:

“I’ve seen every Star Trek movie”.

What’s the typical reaction? “Oh, you’re one of THOSE…”

Then, go up to anyone, and say the following:

“I’ve seen every Star Wars movie”.

What’s the typical reaction? “Big deal, so has everyone.”

We should ask ourselves, why is that? They both have all the scifi trappings, and yet somehow Star Wars managed to suck in every viewer on the planet, even with 3 really lousy movies in a row. Somehow Star Wars managed to avoid the “fringe” label, and it’s that label that needs to be removed from Trek.

That’s the problem I thought JJ & Co. had fixed with the last movie. And succeeded massively. The only other problem to solve this time out was how to grow Trek into an international success. The news stories recently were saying that the studio’s polling found that the international markets thought the last film was too “Trek-y”. A sticky problem to have, but probably solvable without destroying Trek for us Trekkies as well.

Sadly, this film didn’t solve the problem. And now I’m very worried about the future of the franchise. If this film tops out at something like $170M domestic, which is now a real possibility, we’re all in trouble.

715. PaulB - May 19, 2013

Can anyone point out anything new in STID? Is there even a single thing that these writers did that is original? (No, reversing the roles of Kirk and Spock in the reactor is NOT original. It’s basically like posting a ‘flipped’ video to YouTube and claiming it’s original. Nope.)

Remixing old elements is NOT creativity. If these folks didn’t bring anything new to their SECOND film, they shouldn’t be allowed near the third. I mean, they even recycled their own first movie!

The more Star Trek recycles itself, the more likely it is to fail, both for fans and for casual viewers.

716. Bucky - May 19, 2013

I honestly don’t get why people can’t swallow the idea of transwarp beaming when A) the idea of beaming itself is very very impossible B) Captain Kirk routinely has amorous encounters with female space aliens that he seduces while warping around the galaxy in his own Starship.

But Transwarp beaming is too much suspension of disbelief. Right. Did we also mention that this is a series that has talking rocks that travel through time?

717. The River Temoc - May 19, 2013

In brief: a mixed bag. More than a few letdowns, a few flashes of brilliance.

In went into STID deliberately having avoided spoilers for the past couple of months. I really wanted to adore this film – not merely to like it. I thought that STAR TREK ’09 was a mixed bag as well – a yeoman’s effort, to be sure, but with obvious flaws. My hope was that STID would amplify the successful elements of its predecessor and tone down the flaws.

By that standard, I came away a trifle disappointed.

STID contained nothing truly cringe-worthy, à la major parts of GENERATIONS and nearly all of INSURRECTION. But the near pitch-perfect tone of the TOS movies, or BEST OF BOTH WORLDS/ALL GOOD THINGS, or much of ENTERPRISE season four? These eluded JJ Abrams. Granted, a *lot* has to go right for any film to be pitch-perfect. But STAR TREK has pulled it off before, and given the obvious excitement behind the marketing campaign for STID, I think high expectations were warranted.

On to specifics: what I disliked, what I liked, then a wrap-up.

1. KHAN. First off, I didn’t buy Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan. Don’t get me wrong – Benedict Cumberbatch’s villIain was memorable. But he was playing a strange character we’ve never met before – not Khan.

Yes, I felt this way in part because Khan is simply not a northern European. One review I read brushed this point off with, “face it, Khan is British in the Abramsverse”; I beg to differ. Khan’s Sikh heritage is integral to the character “[Sikhs] were the most fantastic warriors,” said Marla McGivers in “Space Seed.” I would have liked to see a Punjabi actor in the role, or barring that, at least a Latino actor with an explanation that Khan was of mixed ethnicity or spent some of his formative years in Latin America (note that this was the backstory for Captain Robau in ST09).

Hollywood has a dishonorable tradition of casting Western actors in Asian roles. BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY’S is the quintessential example. Even granting that performances such as that of Yul Brinner in THE KING AND I may have been mesmerizing – not unlike Cumberbatch’s – this racist tradition belongs in the past.

Yes, there may be in-universe explanations for Khan’s appearance. Perhaps Khan’s right-hand man Joachim, to whom Cumberbatch bears a distinct resemblance, appropriated Khan’s identity in the Abrams universe. Or perhaps Admiral Marcus had Khan surgically altered to disguise his identity. (Seventy years after WWII, everyone still knows what Hitler looked like; it wouldn’t be surprising if Khan is similarly recognizable 200 years after the Eugenics Wars.)

But these in-universe explanations miss the point. It’s not merely Khan’s *ethnicity* that Abrams got wrong, but his *personality*.

Khan was supposed to be calculating, and Cumberbatch captured that. But he was also supposed to be intensely charismatic – not distant. People were eager to follow him, because “he offered the world order.”

Cumberbatch’s Khan is not one that people want to follow. Does anyone really think that Cumberbatch’s Khan would have charmed McGivers into betraying the Enterprise crew? (CumberKhan would have broken her leg, apparently.) Or that he could have held his own at the captain’s table during the banquet that Kirk threw in his honor?

Nor was the TOS Khan a genocidal maniac—at least, not before his exile on Ceti Alpha. “There were no massacres under his rule,” according to Scotty in “Space Seed.” Again, Khan’s flaw was offering the world order *at the price of tyranny.* He was much more Napoleon or Ceasar, or even Vladimir Putin, than Hitler or Pol Pot. Ricardo Montalban’s Khan was not the type to set off random bombs in London and San Francisco – that’s offering the world chaos, not order.

None of this is to deny that Cumberbatch’s villain was mesmerizing in his own way. He absolutely was. But he was playing a new villain, not Khan. Abrams should have taken that fact and run with it. What’s especially frustrating is that it was *very* easy to see Cumberbatch’s character as a young Garth of Izar, a Starfleet officer – “one of our own” – who *did* go insane and morph into a genocidal maniac. The tale of a renegade Starfleet officer is a meaty one. (Look how well it was handled in TNG “The Wounded” or “Pegasus,” two of TNG’s best outings, or even Admiral Marcus here.)

And given that *Kirk* (Pine’s Kirk, anyway) is something of a renegade, the juxtaposition of Kirk against Harrison/Garth would have been especially powerful. We’d *see* how Kirk learns that Starfleet procedures are important – that you file those mission reports for a reason. We do see this learning curve in any event, but it would have been stronger with an antagonist that was genuinely “one of our own.”

2. PACING. I found the frenetic pace a tad disconcerting. In particular, I still don’t follow the logic as to why Admiral Weller had Khan find a henchman to bomb Section 31 in London. (Frankly, I don’t understand why Section 31 was even involved here, other than as an “easter egg” for fans of DS9.)

Now, in general, I *like* movies with plots intricate enough to demand a second viewing. I’m not sure that’s the issue here, however. It seems more like a case of TRANSFORMERS syndrome: action scenes strung together by the weakest of plot threads. I’m certainly not demanding the stately place of 2001 or THE MOTION PICTURE; but there’s a balance to be crafted here, and I think STID missed the mark.

To give another example: I don’t have the faintest idea, for example, of the logic of how cooperating with a bunch of Augments prepared Starfleet for a coming war with the Klingons. Augments may be physically powerful, but their spacefaring technology was 200 years out of date. It’s hard to see what they offer Starfleet in way of military technology. (And on the “physically powerful” note – look, augments are supposed to be just that – better, stronger, and faster, but not invincible. So it was hard to accept that Kirk could beat Khan up without inflicting a scratch. The ENTERPRISE trilogy pulled this concept off much more effectively.)

Some reviews note that the frenetic pacing was necessary to capture the teenage audience. But argument confuses *action* with *pacing*. It’s very possible to combine a thought-provoking film with satisfying action scenes – see SKYFALL, or THE DARK KNIGHT movies, or TERMINATOR 2. The key to success is *believable* action. It’s the difference between the CGI action in DIE ANOTHER DAY and the more physical action in the Daniel Craig Bond movies that followed. STID didn’t quite descend into DIE ANOTHER DAY territory, but we could have savored the choreography in the climax much more without the CGI background noise.

Enough with the negative, for now. On to what I thought the movie did well.

1. PIKE-KIRK RELATIONSHIP. I loved the Pike-as-father-figure to Kirk relationship, particularly when juxtaposed against the troubled father-daughter relationship between Admiral Marcus and Carol.
One of the most frustrating points from ST09 was the “cadet-to-captain in a day” theme. Fictional universe or not, midshipmen just don’t get handed the captaincy of a battleship in a day. And fictional universe or not, you don’t file false mission reports and expect to keep your command. Period. The Pike-Kirk scenes went a long way towards fixing that – “you’re not ready to command,” Pike said to Kirk, and he’s absolutely right.

I’m glad JJ Abrams chose to acknowledge this flaw from ST09 and address it head-on, rather than sweep it under the rug. The Kirk we know from TOS was never “the bad boy of Starfleet.” And you get the impression that by the end of this film, Kirk realizes – after the death of his mentor, Pike – that his handling of the Nibiru mission reports was purile and unprofessional. Chris Pine continues to impress as Kirk; the look on face when he learned he was losing his command was haunting.

(There were a couple of other places where the Enterprise crew acted unprofessionally. You don’t launch into a lovers’ quarrel in the middle of a combat mission, and Kirk looked incompetent for letting that happen. And the non-engineer Chekhov as temporary head of engineering? Really?)

2. KIRK’S DEATH SCENE. JJ Abrams, whatever his other faults, has a way of forging an emotional connection between his audience and Starfleet crews in a way that no previous incarnation of Trek (save perhaps TWOK) has pulled off. I’m thinking specifically of the Kelvin scenes in ST09, or the scene in which Spock lost his mother and lamented, “I am now a member of an endangered species.” The ability to bring teenage girls to tears in a STAR TREK movie is no mean feat!

Kirk’s death scene was in much the same vein. Yes, it was an homage to an earlier film; but like the Aston-Martin scene in SKYFALL, the movie was stronger for it. I can easily see this homage falling flat with less adroit actors, but here it worked (*).

Did the scene carry *quite* the same emotional punch as its counterpart in TWOK? Perhaps not, if only because we all know Kirk would somehow be resurrected. But I’m more-or-less OK with that. As another reviewer noted, the death scene in TWOK was the *culmination* of the Kirk-Spock friendship, whereas the STID scene *catalyzed* that friendship. And that’s what STID is about, at its core: how these one-time rivals forge a shaky friendship that ripens into a profoundly deep one.

Now, this comes with a mighty big asterisk. That asterisk was Spock’s “Khaaaaaaan” scream, which was jarringly out of place. The scream broke the poignancy of the moment for me, tainting the otherwise excellent scene with more than a whiff of caricature. Frankly, I had to restrain myself from laughing.

In TWOK, Kirk’s scream of frustration I could easily buy. Spock shedding a tear in spite of his Vulcan heritage I can easily buy. He is part human, after all. But not this; this was farce. (Spock’s reaction to Pike’s death – a mind meld – was much more in keeping with the character. It’s a pity that we didn’t see an agitated Spock repeatedly trying to do the same with Kirk, only to be thwarted by the glass panel.)

3. OTHER ENTERPRISE CREW. Third, I enjoyed (with the exception of Chekhov’s lame-brained promotion to chief engineer) the fact that all the bridge officers had something substantive to *do*. In particular, Karl Urban as McCoy and – surprisingly – John Cho as Sulu both rose to the occasion. Sulu, in particular, bowled me over during his dialog with John Harrison. This is what “nerves of steel” looks like, folks. *This* is what Starfleet professionalism and competence is supposed to be. My only question: why the hell didn’t Starfleet give the Enterprise to John Cho’s *Sulu*?

Scotty’s beefier role was, more or less, a welcome break from the Scotty-as-comic-relief motif that plagued ST09. (Admittedly, some blame for that motif goes to the TOS movies and the “if it ain’t Scottish, it’s crap” SNL skits.) As another reviewer pointed out, Scotty became the moral center of the crew here, which was an intriguing choice. I’ve often thought that someone could interpret Scotty, rather than Bones, as the third member of the Kirk-Spock triad; unlike the logical Spock, Scotty often sees science through an emotional prism – “my wee bairns,” and all that. STID doesn’t go that route, but it does expand on the original character in a positive way. Kudos for that.

Much the same applies to Uhura. Abrams got Uhura wrong in ST09, where she was a sassy character that lacked any of the quiet elegance of Nichelle Nichols’ interpretation. (In that film, Uhura, the lone female bridge officer, basically won her ENTERPRISE posting by virtue of the fact she was sleeping with the first officer – yikes.) Thankfully, in STID, we saw Uhura shine. We saw a lot more of that Uhura piose when she confronted the Klingons.

As for Karl Urban: more than anyone else in the cast, he slips into the skin of his precedessor, DeForest Kelley, effortlessly. Abrams may have had trouble capturing the spirit of Khan; fortunately, he’s gotten markedly more comfortable with the Enterprise crew. That bodes well for the third movie.

4. THE MARCUS CLAN. My initial reaction to Carol Marcus was that – like Khan – this character was Carol Marcus in name only. The Carol Marcus from TWOK was a molecular biologist, not a particle physicist. (Nor was she British, but since the Marcus character is less iconic than Khan, I found this change less important.) More to the point, the TWOK Marcus wasn’t Starfleet. She wasn’t Kirk’s protégé. She excelled in her career, Kirk in his, and neither was willing to abandon that career for the sake of a relationship.

But after a few hours to mull it over, I’m becoming more of a fan of Alice Eve’s performance. Yes, this Carol Marcus was more like Elizabeth Dehner or Ann Mulhall than her Prime Universe counterpart; but I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.

Coming off of ST09 – with Kirk’s greenness, Scotty’s buffoonery, Chekhov’s sudden engineering talent, and Uhura’s sleep-with-the-boss gimmick – the bridge crew desperately needed another officer who, like Sulu and McCoy, exuded competence and professionalism *from the get go*, as opposed to acquiring these qualities during the movie. Carol Marcus filled that role, in no small part due to Alice Eve’s intensity. If her career path intersects with Kirk’s more than in the Prime Universe, so be it.

Finally, Peter Weller. He portrayed one of Star Trek’ s most under-rated and compelling villains in ENT “Terra Prime,” and he lived up to that portrayal here. Admiral Marcus’ description of Pike as his protégé – much as Kirk had been Pike’s – was particularly poignant. Later in the film, I’d have preferred to see his motivations later in the film as slightly less over-the-top, perhaps; but I still think there was meaty stuff, here.

So, to wrap up – we had a Trek installment here that wasn’t terrible. The core story about Kirk’s maturing into the role of captain, and consolidating his friendship with Spock, worked. As for the supporting case, Sulu and McCoy shone, and except for Chekhov, the others, who seemed mildly awkward in ST09, improved greatly; they feel more like a professional crew now, and less like frat buddies. And Alice Eve’s character, even if she’s not Carol Marcus, was a welcome addition.

At the same time, STID suffered from an unconvincing, miscast antagonist. (And to be sure, Abrams otherwise has a penchant for casting these movies, which made Khan all the more a letdown.) Cumberbatch’s casting aside, we didn’t *need* a Khan story at all. Khan’s story has been told. As a story truly about “battling one of our own,” STID could have been pitch-perfect, and to the extent it failed to live up to expectations – well, that was disappointing. We’ll see whether it improves with a second viewing; it may, if I go into the theater knowing that John Harrison is really Khan.

And I sincerely hope it’s a box-office smash. If we’re to get more Trek in the future – and I’m confident that a future installment *will* be pitch-perfect – it must be. I’ve never quite understood those who say Abrams has no respect for Star Trek; clearly he adores the source material, what with all the “easter eggs” he seeded throughout STID. But that doesn’t mean he’s the person to serve as caretaker for the franchise. For now, I wouldn’t mind seeing a different director (Bryan Singer, Manny Coto, or Neil Blokamp, anyone?) take the helm for ST13.

Let’s call it a 6 out of 10.

718. Trek in a Cafe - May 19, 2013

Are we really that concerned with EXACTLY how many millions of dollars this film did or did not make?

The film did respectably well. And the film is good for both Trekkers and newbies.

I just saw it last night, and while I have some issues with the end. Particularly the rework of the death scene, why are we hitting ourselves on the head saying, “the beginning was original but the end was rehash?”

The beginning was TREK and the end was TREK, but like many movies it only got us part of the way there. But this was, by far, the best iteration of any Original Series “idea” we have yet to see on screen.

Yes, I personally think less than three more minutes of dialog, and one or two less minibursts of action would have made this feel more like a film and less like pastiche. But that’s not the writer’s fault. I’m sure those scenes were filmed.

Whatever they cut, which leaves people somehow confused, was based, I’ll wager, on the studio not wanting to hit the message on the head. Which we suffer for. But so do many films that come from giant corporations. Trek is INHERENTLY anti-corporate. Corporations are not going to make big political message films. And that’s what this film clearly wanted to be and pretty much is.

And except for Voyage Home, we haven’t gotten a FILM with a message. EVER.

It’s good to have!

719. rm10019 - May 19, 2013

Boborci, did anyone on the court suggest that by not using Khan, the movie would remain open to more casual fans? Is there anything that you considered, a path that you didn’t take that might have make STID a better stand alone film, not even touching any previous Trek lore?

720. MJ - May 19, 2013

I notice RDR and some folks have been talking about the Borg for Trek 2016 in recent posts. Here is what I said about this in post #206:

“It’s really early, but knowing that Orci is a TNG fan, and knowing that the Enterprise will be in deep space on its five year mission, I would not be shocked to see the first encounter with the Borg in the next movie. The argument being that in this alt universe the E’s deep space mission sends it farther out and in different locations than the Prime E went.”

721. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@694. sean,
“Plus it gives Starfleet time to ponder what to do.”

Sure I buy that as an in-universe solution. It doesn’t negate the fact they are depriving Khan and his people of their freedom, regardless if they are aware.

But let’s bring it local. Assuming the conspiracy theories for a moment. What if it were proven that a corrupt admiral in the US Military had a secret black ops program that had created genetically enhanced ethnic sleeper agents 25 years ago after the first Gulf War specifically to fight wars in the Middle East. They were raised together, trained together and developed a familial bond, then the military abruptly disbanded them when the purpose for their training had ended, and scattered them around the world. One day the admiral calls one in and demands he assassinate the president who is responsible for changing the policy that disbanded his program. The agent won’t do it, so the admiral rounds up all his fellow agents and holds them hostage to get him to do his bidding. So the agent agrees, and proceeds to double cross the admiral. In an effort to get his ‘family’ freed, he goes on a terrorist rampage, blowing up federal buildings, and attacking military bases. Finally the admiral is exposed and the agent apprehended.

So what do we do with him and his fellow agents today? The agent was only doing what he was traind and bred to do, and in the process exposed a dangerous corrupt admiral and clandestine agency within the military. One could say they never should have “awakened” this agent and all would have been well. But they did. And now they have to deal not only with his actions, but what to do with the rest of the sleeper agents who owe their lives to the ‘brother’ who freed them. Obviously, the option of putting them into stasis doesn’t exist. So what do they do?

What would Starfleet do, considering this group doesn’t come with their own set of frozen popsicle trays?

722. Mcflycat - May 19, 2013

716:

Very good and fresh point!

723. Matt Wright - May 19, 2013

@719 – Sounds a bit like a post-9/11 version of the TNG episode “The Hunted”

724. MikeB - May 19, 2013

Saw the movie Friday and absolutely loved it. Bob, great job to you and everyone else involved.

I have a couple of minor quibbles, but I can’t believe some of the complaints over almost everything in such an outstanding film. Yesterday I read bitching about Spock Primes appearance. Really?! It made sense in the film -it used to be that a cameo like that would be huge, now it’s just another thing for some to complain about.

As for the criticism over the Spock/ Kirk TWOK death scene; unless I got it wrong, I saw it as another point where the timeline is attempting to correct itself. As Dr. Who calls it – there are fixed points in time that just have to happen, now the timeline is altered so they will not be the same, but they will be similar. Bob, am I on the right track? That was one of the main concepts behind the crew coming together in such a fortuitous way in the last film.

One final thought – the early reports are that the film is underperforming. Come on people get out and see this film again!!! Whatever criticisms you have do you really want this to be the last Trek film?

725. Wannabe Writer - May 19, 2013

It’s funny….I keep reading post that say the next film needs more “Trek”. What the heck does that mean?

Trek is about the characters – how people grow and adapt. How we overcome our flaws. You will never…ever get that in a 120 min movie. What Bob and crew has done is given us a great film that builds upon what we already know.

What everyone is saying is true…but the only way to be it is to get trek back on tv. We need to enjoy the movie for what it has given us.

We need to also duct tape our friends and drag them to the movie over and over for the next 3 weeks. =)

726. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@721. Matt Wright,
“@719 – Sounds a bit like a post-9/11 version of the TNG episode “The Hunted”

Yup! You nailed it!

I’ve been saying one of the reasons Khan was a poor choice since fans started proposing that Section 31 recruits Khan into to Starfleet by holding his crew hostage (and this was like 2 years ago!), was because it would be a retread of the TNG episode ‘The Hunted’. Or closer to the present, last year’s successful ‘Bourne Legacy’.

It’s hard to believe there is not a single major idea in STID that wasn’t guessed here well before the film opened. No wonder they chose to market it the way they did. Correction: I’m not sure anybody guessed they would play out the Spock death scene from TWOK exactly but in reverse, though it was speculated Kirk would be the one killed numerous times (and summarily ridiculed).

727. Walt Kozlowski - May 19, 2013

I saw it once( looked great and was action packed).As a Star Trek fan I may see it once more.
JJ said he didn’t make this for the fans or even the fans of Trek 09, but for fans of movies.Last I check Star Trek is a genre. Yeah he tossed in some Trek treats to pander the fan and.I had no problem with Khan being the villain, but story had too many holes and the fast pace did give you time to think about it!
Star Trek continues to thrive via its fan base,why would you alienate the core group that would go see it multiple times? The movie should have been made for the Trek fans but can be enjoyed by non fans as well! Just hmo.

728. PaulB - May 19, 2013

#722 “Whatever criticisms you have do you really want this to be the last Trek film?”

In general, no. With this writing/directing team, yes.

I saw it once on Thursday. The film’s plagiarism of other Trek films really bothers me, so I cancelled plans for an IMAX viewing and at least one more 2D viewing.

It’s good enough for my ticket once, and for a DVD purchase–it’s not terrible at all, just so unoriginal that I don’t see why I should pay these people more money for work that came from so many other sources.

I might see it in the theater one more time, but not the 3 or 4 times I had planned (or the 5 times I saw Trek’09 in theaters).

It doesn’t deserve a better opening weekend. It’s not that good of a film, and its unoriginality shouldn’t be unduly rewarded.

729. Anthony Pascale - May 19, 2013

Just so people know Matt Wright or Kayla or any other writer is authorized to pull comments, ban, etc. So what they say is law just like it comes from me. And Spoofing is certainly a banable offense here so don’t do it.

730. PaulB - May 19, 2013

re #728 — I was replying to 724, Mike B. (not 722, as I typed)

731. Bill Bradley - May 19, 2013

Just read this on Forbes website as to why the domestic box office didn’t get as big as expected:

“As for ‘Why didn’t the sequel break out?’, it’s quite possible that J.J. Abrams ‘mystery box’ shares some of the blame. Frankly the second film took so long to actually go into production, with several false starts, that I’m not sure J.J. Abrams and company wanted to do another one in the first place. This would arguably explain the reliance on the crutch that is their choice of villain, a painfully uninspired choice made doubly-odd by Abrams’s refusal to confirm his identity in the marketing. In short, why pick a villain purely because he is recognizable to more general audience Star Trek fans and then hide his presence in the marketing? Of course, this ‘mystery’ could arguably only work because they took a character originally played by an ethnic actor and cast the whitest white guy they could find, but that’s a topic for Racebending.”

732. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

What a fascinating thing that was just said by … “me??”

Sock puppetry is boring.

733. Dennis C - May 19, 2013

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2013/05/19/star-trek-into-darkness-box-office/2323033/

USA Today reports a weekend haul of $70 million, short of the $75 million of 2009. Factor in the inflated ticket prices for 3D and IMAX 3D screenings and the take falls even further behind 2009.

734. Konar - May 19, 2013

714 — the reversal at the end was absolutely original, and probably brilliant, given the role it played in cementing the relationship between Kirk and Spock. Does everything need to be spelled out? The character threads in this film were extremely clear… To have made them any more clear would have been almost too much on the nose. That some people are unable to experience catharsis byidentifying with the feelings — not just the actions — of a character is not the fault of the film makers. It simply represents the limitations of the viewer. Here’s a clear example: lots of people have been complaining about the weakness and supposed disrespect to Uhura’s character. In reality, she was profoundly different by the end of the film. She went from “how dare you risk your life” to “go get him.” That’s a big change. Again — it’s not a lazy rehashing — it’s a brilliant, meaning-laden twist. You might not be happy the did it — but you can’t call it lazy or uninspired.

735. Damian - May 19, 2013

Actually went to see the film a 2nd time last night (first time I did that since First Contact–I tend to be choosy, especially with movie prices these days, with going a 2nd time).

Question (maybe it’s been answered but I can’t really read through 2000+ posts).

Who was the computer voice on the Enterprise (toward the end when Spock ordered evacuation–I assume it was the computer)? It sounded a little like Marina Sirtis, but I couldn’t tell and I didn’t see it in the credits (I may have missed it).

736. Trek in a Cafe - May 19, 2013

Not sure if my previous post went through.
On the topic of Box Office, that the film is doing poorly. How is that remotely possible? Someone in the promotions department floated the idea to Variety that the film would make a $100 million. Did that come from the producers of the film? I think not.

Throughout Trek’s history, there has been a tendency for Trekkers to whine and say “No one loves me.” Let’s not fall into that trap. This $100 million idea was floated by someone who wanted to get the credit for getting us and others into the seats, and blame others (and Trek itself) if they failed.

737. KenT - May 19, 2013

I thought the movie was a fun ride. I’ve been a quiet fan for 35 years. I took my daughter to her first convention last year and my first in 25 years. It was great to see people of all backgrounds get together and have a good time. What fun it is to see the actors and writers engage the fans to this level.

I give a lot of credit to Bob Orci for responding and engaging. You can’t find this level of involvment or caring anywhere outside of the trek universe.

This movie has certainly sparked the passion that exists for this series. I hope there is another movie and more fun to be had. I personally thought that Paramount’s last minute estimates to 100mm were too high early last week. The bar is high given the budget. I hope the movie is considered a success in the long run.

Thank you Bob for your efforts on both movies and keeping Trek alive on the big screen.

738. T Negative - May 19, 2013

Great job casting Alice Eve in this movie. What a hottie she is! Rarely do you see a woman with those kinds of “curves” in a Hollywood film. Bravo!!

739. Bill Bradley - May 19, 2013

#731. “Wiliam,” ah, I see we have the same name, although I go by “Bill.”

No, I am not trying to pretend I am you. I am “Bill.”

You don’t need to be antagonistic about it, my friend. We are probably related in some fashion, many, many generations ago.

Peace!

740. Damian - May 19, 2013

Again, hats off to the writing for Scotty. Definitely much more than odious comic relief guy now.

Suggestion for next film, expand McCoy’s role. He really seemed to be left out of the original triad in this film. It seemed more Kirk-Spock-Uhura and McCoy needs to be part of the primary group for this to really reflect the original series.

741. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

724 et al …

No way this will be the last Trek film.

STID is underperforming the projections, and ST09, but it’s close to the reboot domestically and way ahead internationally. So it’s a hit.

How much of a hit, and how justified the budget was based on the return and the perception of the movie — there were some hoots and a large amount of grumbling in the theater in which I watched STID, with no show of enthusiasm at the end, unlike ’09 — those questions remain to be answered.

742. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

Cool.

Where can I find your other comments?

>739. Bill Bradley – May 19, 2013

743. intruder - May 19, 2013

After digesting over the last three days, I reached a verdict: I like this film.

People loved the Cumberbatch’s acting, but Chris Pine delivered an acting that is perfect at every frame of the film as well, even the shatnerisms, it is amazing. His acknowledgement that his overconfidence is a threat and not a quality is heartbreaking.

Chris Pine does deserve the chair. Above all the writers got Kirk right.

744. Bill Bradley - May 19, 2013

#740. I agree completely. Scotty was great in this film, but McCoy was under-used. In fact, that joke by Kirk to McCoy about stop using the metaphors was kind of painful, in that that’s what McCoy’s role largely was in this film.

In a weird way, Scotty and McCoy switched roles in this film. Scotty was done for laughs in Trek 2009, and McCoy was done for laughs in STID.

This is one of the reasons that I am lukewarm on this film. It could have been a lot better.

745. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

Bill, I agree.

:)

746. Josh C. - May 19, 2013

Saw it for a 2nd time finally today (finally).

It felt a bit better the 2nd time through, though I still felt most everything from the reactor scene forward was rather asinine.

It may at least move the movie up above the likes of Nemesis and Generations, which I had it ranked below before

747. Dennis C - May 19, 2013

Forbes takes a look a STID’s weekend performance amd makes an interesting, if unflattering, comparison to “John Carter”:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2013/05/19/weekend-box-office-star-trek-into-darkness-opens-with-just-84-million/

748. Bill Bradley - May 19, 2013

William,

I have gone through a few different monikers on this site over the years, starting with, believe it or not, “The Underpants Monster,” given I had two toddlers at the time. LOL

Your posts and the way you handle yourself seems very familiar as well. What other names you have been on this site in the past, before you settled on using your real name?

749. Damien - May 19, 2013

There was a lot to like about STID, I actually liked it more than Star Trek (2009). I also noticed that the team did take some of our complaints into consideration. Scotty being more than comic relief, a true warp core, a better window/viewscreen, a bit less lens flares being just a few.

I really think JJ has matured as a director. In Star Trek, everything was lens flare/shaky camera. This film, I think he realized, there are times when that is inappropriate. During times when the action was more subdued, or there was more emotion in a scene, JJ was content to let the camera be still, and those scenes were clean with no flares.

I had my nitpicks like anyone else. I wish it was anyone but Khan, personally. Cumberbatch was great, but I just couldn’t buy him as Khan. And Spock screaming Khan a la Shatner was just too much, seeing it last night a second time didn’t help. It was still eye rolling for me. And the Magic Blood had to be the worse Maguffin ever. I found myself asking a million questions (why didn’t they just take blood from one of the other 72 to save Kirk, why didn’t Khan use his blood to save his wife and his people when they died, oh and now that you have Magic Blood, no one ever has to die again).

But it passed the entertainment test. I was thoroughly entertained and the good outweighed the bad.

750. Praetor Tal - May 19, 2013

Missus and I went to see it last night, and were only disappointed it wasn’t longer. I wasn’t always convinced, but I was always entertained. Solid entry for the franchise. I’m sure we’ll go to see it again this week, maybe in 2D to see if it’s a lot different than 3D. We went to the 3D show on Jonathan Altman’s advice, but I didn’t think it made much difference except on Nibiru and EVA flight to the Vengeance.

751. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

#621 – boborci

Just wondering if you have a snit against me. It was actually my post at #598 which challenged a poster’s view that STID is “A film that is too readily applauding military might above all else (tough pretending otherwise)”

Konar also challenged that comment at #603. This poster may have expressed the challenge to that poster’s original statement better, but I was first to point it out.

This might seem like nitpicking on my part, but you have ignored every comment or question that I have made to you – all of this year and now you won’t even acknowledge my being the first to explain the movie’s intent.

Do you deliberately mean to be dismissive/offensive?…:(

752. Craiger - May 19, 2013

I wonder if JJ will ask Orci and Kurtzman to jump over to SW and forget about Trek and if that happened would Paramount put Trek to bed?

753. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Unless Paramount would want to have another Trek movie out to compete with the new SW movie?

754. Damian - May 19, 2013

Also, for the record, I’m a huge fan of all Star Trek, including the Berman years. It’s ok to like Berman Trek and JJ Trek. I’m someone who loved Nemesis and Enterprise too, and I loved STID.

I love reading the continuing stories of the spin-offs in the novels and am gratified to see new Enterprise novels coming out, along with the continuation of the Typhon Pact series in the upcoming “The Fall” novels later this summer.

As an aside, I hope now that STID is out now, the 4 Abramsverse novels can be released now (with whatever revisions they may need to make due to STID).

755. Alt-Spock - May 19, 2013

@622:
It should be obvious why I’m not supporting this one, no? I saw ’09 JJ-Trek and couldn’t stomach it.

P.S. No one thinks you’re the real Bob Orci, so the charade is wasted effort.

756. Damian - May 19, 2013

751–Don’t take it personally. Bob does not respond to everyone. I’ve asked him questions over the years and never got an answer. He’s careful about what he responds too.

The only time I ever was engaged in debate with him was re: whether 9/11 was an inside job (and at the time, we weren’t sure it was really Bob Orci–there was a lack of moderation at that point in time and people were posting as others).

757. PaulB - May 19, 2013

#734 –Sorry, but I don’t think that repeating the TWOK reactor scene almost verbatim can be called original or brilliant using any sane definition of either word.

Just like a DJ or a hip-hop producer, these writers took other people’s ideas–and in too many places, their own stuff from the previous movie–and “remixed” them. To some–you, for instance–this is considered originality. Okay. That’s a difference of opinion: Many of us do NOT consider sampling and remixing to be original, even if it is absolutely “creative.”

I think too many of you are conflating the ideas of creativity and originality. Was it creative to use the end-of-their-friendship TWOK scene as an echo here, at the start of their friendship? Yes, it was a creative use of non-original material.

If they had crafted a scene that achieved the same effect (showing the friendship’s real “birth” so to speak) but with entirely new dialogue and action, THEN you could reasonably call it original and, possibly, brilliant. But they used TWOK’s dialogue and actions to achieve their purpose–that is NOT originality!

From set design to specific shots to ship-rising-from-clouds to the space jump to the crowd-reacts-to-attack-in-SF scenes to Kirk and Pike in the bar to…the list goes on of the unoriginal material in STID, and that’s just the stuff they lifted from the first film.

Originality is NOT evidenced in this film. Creative use of existing materials, yes.

758. Bill Bradley - May 19, 2013

#751. I am sure he is just busy. You should not be so oversensitive.

Let’s all get back to the real problem with this movie. Why was a British guy portraying the part of an Indian Punjabi Sikh?

759. BornBrave - May 19, 2013

Overall very good movie. Better then Trek-09. Still hate the I-bridge and engineering. Very contrasting looks. High tech bridge, very industrial engineering section. Also There seems to be so much wasted space in this ship. too many large open air rooms for a space ship.

Now to the movie. Very good. Could have done without the prime-spock cameo. Unless you know trek-classic, that made no sense. Speaking of that. I did appreciate, especially in the first half, the many references for us die-hards. Noobies may not understand that, but it was cool.

The opening scene on contradicted itself. Spock turned in Kirk for violating the prime directive for letting the ship be seen, But, the very act of saving the planet violates the prime directive. Pike sort of glossed over that, but there to way too much focus on the cavemen seeing Enterprise. And as far as that goes, why not just stay in orbit. The whole going underwater was just a cheap-ass visual. Unnecessary.

Despite my criticism, it is a very good movie. I can live with it being Kahn. They could have come up with a similar story. Make it another of group of people from that same time period. Also put into space like Kahns group. Just not Kahn.

I did like the parallels between TWOK and Kirk yelling KAHN and this with Spock yelling it, and Kirk giving up his life. Even the beginning with the reference to “the needs of the one….”

760. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

I was just struck by the fact that you had no comments on any of the threads …

I always comment as me.

>748. Bill Bradley – May 19, 2013
William,

I have gone through a few different monikers on this site over the years, starting with, believe it or not, “The Underpants Monster,” given I had two toddlers at the time. LOL

Your posts and the way you handle yourself seems very familiar as well. What other names you have been on this site in the past, before you settled on using your real name?

761. PaulB - May 19, 2013

#749 “I also noticed that the team did take some of our complaints into consideration. Scotty being more than comic relief, a true warp core, a better window/viewscreen, a bit less lens flares being just a few.”

Yes! They deserve big credit for all of these improvements. Of the things I’ll complain about in STID, lens flares and Scotty are not among them.

762. Damian - May 19, 2013

759–Agree with your comment about Spock-prime. Nimoy is the best and he will always been original Spock. But that really seemed a waste of time. Here we had a great action scene going on and then everything stopped to have Spock say Khan was dangerous. No kidding.

Really made no sense to me.

763. Anthony Pascale - May 19, 2013

OK everyone this thread is not all about one poster it is about Star Trek Into Darkness.

stop with the personal sniping, stop with the accusations of sockpuppeting etc.

If things dont get back on topic then we will just start banning people, no more warnings. There are too many comments coming too fast to deal with trouble-making at this point.

764. Damian - May 19, 2013

758–Agree about Bob Orci. Generally if I have a question (like about the computer voice I asked earlier), I just ask it to anyone here. If Bob feels like answering it great. But I long ago gave up asking him directly.

765. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

Why do people think that Khan’s “magic” blood will be able to bring anyone who has died back to life?

There is no evidence that could occur. Khan’s blood saved the life of a little girl who was near death and that of Kirk’s who had just died. Dr McCoy quickly put Kirk into a cryotube while he synthesised the blood, so that it was compatible with Kirk’s own blood and could regenerate body mechanisms before they shut down/decayed completely.

I assume that a similar blood serum was extracted that was compatible with tribble blood and injected into the dead animal to see if this infusion of Khan’s “magic” blood could have regenerate a dead tribble’s life force. It did. This gave Dr McCoy the idea, the hope… We have no idea how long the tribble had been dead. I suspect it was not that long.

The person who was in the cryotube was removed temporarily and kept in a comatose state.

766. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

Well, yes, and then some. My only criticism for the day.

There was no worry about the ship being seen going down to the surface, and then underwater, but lots of worry about it surfacing?

Transporter technology is so power that a portable unit can send Cumberbatch from Earth to the Klingon homeworld in the blink of an eye, but Spock can’t be beamed out of a volcano from a ship just a few miles away?

And, oh forget it … :)

>The opening scene on contradicted itself. Spock turned in Kirk for violating the prime directive for letting the ship be seen, But, the very act of saving the planet violates the prime directive. Pike sort of glossed over that, but there to way too much focus on the cavemen seeing Enterprise. And as far as that goes, why not just stay in orbit. The whole going underwater was just a cheap-ass visual. Unnecessary.

767. Anthony Pascale - May 19, 2013

Just to be clear, all posts by boborci are the real Roberto Orci. we verify this. same is true of other real names. Anyone attempting to spoof names gets banned and posts get deleted.

768. Josh C. - May 19, 2013

765 – if you mean, do I think we could exhume Abraham Lincoln, inject his remains with Khan’s blood, and bring him back to life, no, I don’t think that can be done.

What it does suggest is that any illness that involves cellular or genetic damage CAN be cured either before or very soon after death with his blood. Perhaps there are limits to what it can do, but we know it CAN sure a previously incurable disease in a child as well as severe radiation poisoning.

769. Damian - May 19, 2013

766–I thought Kirk being in trouble not just for being seen, but for stopping the volcano in the first place was pretty clear, IMHO. Pike tells him he wouldn’t have sent his first officer in the first place (because saving the planet alone violeted the Prime Directive). I was impressed the writers understood all the ramifications of the prime directive, the whole mission violated it.

Not to say your other criticisms aren’t valid. There was a lot you had to take for granted in the movie (like why they had to hide in the ocean as you mentioned–was there ionization in the atmosphere, a nearby ion storm, etc).

770. PaulB - May 19, 2013

#769 Good points about Pike’s comments and how the writers handled the Prime Directive.

Not only that, but the writers also handled Spock well regarding the PD: He is willing to break it to save other people by stopping the volcano, but refuses to consider breaking it for his own sake. It’s unthinkable to him. THAT is very true to Spock.

771. William Bradley - May 19, 2013

I actually enjoyed the sequence, watching with my summer movie eye …

And I suppose Spock was disciplined, too, now that I think of it, being reassigned from Enterprise rather continuing on the Big E as first officer.

>769. Damian – May 19, 2013
766–I thought Kirk being in trouble not just for being seen, but for stopping the volcano in the first place was pretty clear, IMHO. Pike tells him he wouldn’t have sent his first officer in the first place (because saving the planet alone violeted the Prime Directive). I was impressed the writers understood all the ramifications of the prime directive, the whole mission violated it.

Not to say your other criticisms aren’t valid. There was a lot you had to take for granted in the movie (like why they had to hide in the ocean as you mentioned–was there ionization in the atmosphere, a nearby ion storm, etc).

772. Wes - May 19, 2013

This movie was great! I saw it for the second time today, but, this time in the Imax 3D! There was a massive line at the 9 a.m. sunday showing. It was an amazing film and a great Star Trek Picture. I only wish that back in the 1980′s Shatner and crew had the budgets these guys have. The reveal of Khan was well written and the homages were well placed. My two complaints were the killing of Pike and the Uhura/Spock thing again. Other than that, it was a great film, for sure in the top 5 trek films for me.

The box office numbers were inflated by outside companies and NOT Paramount (originally). Expect this film to beat the expectations and come in at $90 million or more opening weekend, right now the numbers are just estimates. Expect this film to take the top spot the next few weekends. The upcoming releases are just not that good F&F 6?! Come on! Iron Man is seeing rapid declines and did well mostly overseas. This Trek film is a great summer blockbuster and it is an enjoyable film, better than Trek ’09. Also in regards to Khan did anyone think that perhaps the original Khan lied about his identity? Also, no one seems to remember the Brits controlling India for centuries perhaps this new Khan is of mixed race and is British?

773. Damian - May 19, 2013

Last thing I’ll post for a while (gotta go) I did notice 2 other homages to prior Star Trek films (intentional or not, who knows) other than TWOK.

The one scene of the Vengeance crashing into San Francisco reminded me of the Enterprise crashing on Veridian III in Generations.

And the other of the Vengeance opening it’s weapons ports before attacking the Enterprise a 2nd time reminded me of the Scimitar expanding it’s wings to fire the thalaron weapon in Nemesis.

I’m sure there are others, but those 2 stood out.

774. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Spoiler for Star Trek The Game:

At the end of the new Star Trek The Video Game Admiral Pike orders the Enterprise to help the planet Nibiru on a humanitarian mission. They say the video game is canon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inOyUkpMgOM

775. Dave H - May 19, 2013

William Bradley,

You are like posting at nearly 20% of the past 50 posts.

Didn’t you just see Mr. Pascale’s reminder?

776. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

All I am asking from Bob Orci is a simple acknowledgment. He had the time to acknowledge the second post, which said what I had already said…

I do not have anything against Konar. I agree with his/her post.

The original (Montalban) Khan was Indian from the Northern India Punjab province, but him being a Sikh was a guess on the part of an infatuated and ignorant Marla McGivers.

As I said, I don’t think this movie’s “Khan” was miscast at all. There is a twist to this. Time will tell…or not.

777. USSEXETER - May 19, 2013

Ok Bob Orci & Trekmovie (Anthony) please take me off the Nixon’s enemies list for STID. Just got back from seeing the movie a second time in 2D. It was great and one of the best Trek’s ever. I quickly got over the WOK similarity and just watched it without nitpicking. Funny, action packed, great acting, huge scale, and very emotional. Great job and the franchise undoubtably continues with the success of this movie.

778. @wikiwackywoo - May 19, 2013

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/19/star-trek-into-darkness-is-no-1-at-the-box-office/

#1 box this weekend

779. PaulB - May 19, 2013

#775 – Perhaps you should also heed Mr. Pascale’s reminder (763) and stop obsessing about William Bradley. Yes, he’s annoying, but I’ve seen nothing really from you in multiple threads except your tracking of Bradley’s comments.

Please, both of you, listen to Anthony and stop. Talk about the movie, not about each other. Don’t like each other? Ignore each other’s posts. Or not. Whatever. Just asking.

780. Ahmed - May 19, 2013

@ 774. Craiger – May 19, 2013

“Spoiler for Star Trek The Game:
At the end of the new Star Trek The Video Game Admiral Pike orders the Enterprise to help the planet Nibiru on a humanitarian mission.”

What humanitarian mission ? Admiral Pike stated clearly in the movie that the mission was to observe the planet & not to interfere with the natives. A humanitarian mission imply interacting with the natives.

781. Damian - May 19, 2013

772–Great thing about those earlier films, though, is they didn’t look cheap. TWOK looked every bit a top notch movie, even with its much reduced budget from TMP. First Contact, too (though it did have a bigger budget, not nearly the same as these last 2 films).

Great production teams and crew work with what they have. Herman Zimmerman used to do some great work on the prior movies with props he probably bought from the Dollar Tree. I imagine Chambliss would probably find a way to stretch a dollar if he needed too also.

782. Admiral Archer's Prize Beagle. - May 19, 2013

Anthony Pascale,

I agree with Dave H in #775. William Bradley is still trying to dominate the posts here by the sheer volume of his posts, and by generally throwing his weight around..

783. Josh C. - May 19, 2013

774, 780 –

I think the games and comics are semi-canon. They’re canon until something on screen contradicts it. The “humanitarian” thing could be one item.

The comics also have a couple. I think I counted 3 people lost under KIrk’s command in the comics (in the movie he said he hadn’t lost any). Also, rather minor, but Sulu did seat in the Captain’s chair in the comic (he said he hadn’t in the movie).

784. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Ahmed watch the end of the Youtube video. Then they messed up on the video game. One of the games Executive Producers said it was canon it took place during the first one and STID.

785. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Sorry I meant between the first one and STID.

786. TREK!LIVES! - May 19, 2013

Can’t believe all the complaining about this movie. This was a great movie! I have been a big fan of almost all things Star Trek since the 1960′s. When I was seeing (years ago) STAR TREK: The Final Frontier for the first time and yelling out in the crowd this movie stinks. While they were making this film I was one of the group screaming no Khan. So, I have been a harsh critic of Star Trek too.

When I saw this movie, I was blown away! J.J. Abrams and crew made this work. Keep up the great work.

Also, this is an alternate time line now. Meaning events are going to happen totally different, similar, or the same. For instance, the Khan in this alternate time line is totally different in many ways to the TOS Khan, but also similar. TOS Khan had no genetically enhanced blood, but this Khan does. I could go on and on about this.

I could also nitpick this movie till I turn blue, but I what. This was a great movie. The characters come together great also. The so called problems or weakness are so minor it is ridiculous. In my opinion.

I can’t wait for the next movie. They could a total rehash of the TOS episode “Balance of Terror” now and I would go see it. But, my point is get out and support this movie. Especially if you want to see another movie or TV series.

Go see this movie!

787. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

Not sure why people are saying the movie is underperforming, according to Yahoo’s figures it has already hit 84 million, and that does not include totals for today (sunday). Here see for yourselves.

http://movies.yahoo.com/box-office/

788. Josh C. - May 19, 2013

787 – $84 million includes estimates for Sunday based on Friday and Saturday’s numbers. Of course, those numbers can change (especially Sunday) if they end up being better or worse than the estimates

789. THX-1138 - May 19, 2013

So here is my review:

You know what? I enjoyed watching this movie, spoiled as I was. The Nibiru mission stuff was awesome. When during the Kirk and McCoy chase scene we got a brief glimpse of some sort of anemone slug creature just doing his thing it had the visual effect of things I had imagined reading about in an Asimov or Niven, or maybe even Arthur C. Clarke novel. Just really brilliant visually and showed a kernel of what a real Star Trek exploration movie could be like.

The problem is Khan. Totally unnecessary character in my opinion. As a matter of fact I have chosen to just call him John Harrison.

You see, it’s like this. I have been sold a concept that Khan is of Indian heritage. For over 45 years. You’re asking a lot of me to switch his ethnicity to British. It fully takes me completely out of the movie. I don’t speak for everyone, of course, but it does not work at all for me.

I guess I just see this movie as a missed opportunity. Personally they should have avoided TWOK entirely as STID can only be a pale comparison. It takes a real pair of brass balls to think that you can put your movie on the same level as the singular most popular movie in Trek franchise history as well as probably the single defining Trek movie for the general public. To smugly do their take on the death scene smacks of hubris. Ham fisted and clumsy.

The characters were all likable save for Uhura. They should kill this romance now. It’s not intriguing, it’s annoying. And when Quinto is allowed to play Spock to character he is really doing a great job. But they insist on his being this emotional being so often that his performance get’s lost. Spock crying and screaming and getting angry make him the same as everyone else. That is to say, I don’t think of Spock as a brilliant character with a rich history anymore, but rather a fragile Vulcan who sometimes wears his heart on his sleeve. Pine and Urban were quite good. Cho has a pretty nice moment as Sulu. Yelchin was just lost and confused the whole movie. And Pegg did a great job portraying Simon Pegg. His Scotty works within the confines of this production adequately but he isn’t Scotty. Scotty’s humor came from his love for the ship, not from slapstick humor or smartass remarks. But I didn’t hate what Pegg did. I just didn’t think it rang true to the character I personally visualize.

If I have any request for the next movie it would be this:

Look at that Nibiru mission sequence. That was damn near a note perfect TOS episode. It could have been expanded to two hours and served as a platform to explore many issues that we face as human beings. And it would prove popular with the general public given the wonderful production values and creativity at your disposal. Imagine that; a Star Trek movie that lived up to the best values of the original series with the stunning visuals available to today’s film makers. Then you would be making the ideal Trek film. One that could truly end up defining Star Trek for generations to come.

790. Miles R. Seppelt - May 19, 2013

Great, great movie!!!! One of the best treks ever! (I’d rank it as the # 2 Star Trek movie ever, after TWOK) The retelling of the Kahn story was inspired. To all involved, congratulations and WELL DONE!

791. Ahmed - May 19, 2013

@ 787. Unwanted – May 19, 2013

“Not sure why people are saying the movie is underperforming, according to Yahoo’s figures it has already hit 84 million, and that does not include totals for today (sunday). Here see for yourselves.”

Check this out from Forbes:

The first Star Trek earned $79.5 million in its first 3.25 days, a number that would be about $84 million adjusted for inflation and around $95 million when accounting for this film’s 3D bump.

There is no way around it, Star Trek Into Darkness pulled in fewer ticket buyers than the 2009 Star Trek.

For the record, I do not want to scream “FLOP” over a $82 million four-day gross and potentially lucrative overseas final results, but this is indeed a case where a rather large opening can be considered a ‘disappointment’ in relation to realistic expectations and/or budgetary demands.

Four years ago, we all thought that Star Trek 2 was a lock for one of the bigger opening weekends on record. Today, we’re wondering if it will even top $200 million domestic.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2013/05/19/weekend-box-office-star-trek-into-darkness-opens-with-just-84-million/

792. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

#772 – “Also, no one seems to remember the Brits controlling India for centuries perhaps this new Khan is of mixed race and is British?”

Um yes…India was where part of my own father’s family were born and lived for nearly 100 years. They were the *terrible, mean* British – either in the Army or the Judiciary. I very much doubt it, but for all I know, I may have an Indian/British relative, who could go by the very common surname, Khan.

Re: prime directive – I think there were two issues in play here, which were what had Pike (representing Starfleet admin.) chewing Kirk out. One was the violation of the prime directive (questionable) and the second was the fact that Kirk lied in his report about the survey of the Nibiru planet. The more serious one was the lying.

The reality was likely that the Enterprise survey showed that this volcano could cause catastrophic damage to the planet and most likely wipe out an entire race. Also, Kirk and co. knew that they had the technology to prevent this devastation and thereby save a humanoid race from (almost) complete annihilation. It became, for Kirk and co, an ethical dilemma – ie if you have the means to help, save another, should you not do what you can for the other? I suspect that Dr McCoy would have, more likely in this instance, said “screw the prime directive and save this world, these people”.

Pike talked about interfering with that world’s destiny. One could say that the fact that the Enterprise happened to be there seeing this planet’s plight and being able to do something, might also have been part of this world’s, Nibiru’s, destiny. Interestingly, Spock chose to be the one to go down into the volcano and be the instrument of change for that planet. I doubt that Kirk would have forced him to do it. Once the decision was made to go ahead with the plan, Spock surely would have been aware that they risked being seen by the indigenous people, because of the very risky nature of what Spock…were trying to do.

I think that the Enterprise entered the planet’s oceans at a different part of the planet, very likely at night and glided through the water (submarine style) to a location closest to the volcano. They used the shuttle to get Spock to the volcano – this was the biggest risk because of possibly been seen by the Nibiru people. As Kayla Lacovino pointed out, Sulu got it wrong – it wasn’t the heat that caused problems for the shuttlecraft, it was the ash – no matter. Sulu and co had to be beamed back to the Enterprise and then Spock which meant that the Enterprise had to leave the ocean in full view of the people, in order to do this…

I think that the initial plan was for the shuttlecraft to take and bring Spock back, once he had activated the device, to the Enterprise and then the Enterprise would quiet submarine itself away to a secluded oceanic location and then make its heavenward getaway in the night…alas it didn’t quite work exactly as planned…oh well.

793. The River Temoc - May 19, 2013

“Also in regards to Khan did anyone think that perhaps the original Khan lied about his identity? ”

Except that once the TOS Kirk figured out who he was, they pulled up old photographs of Khan Noonian Singh from the 1990s and verified who he was. Something Admiral Marcus apparently failed to do.

794. geodesic17 - May 19, 2013

So, if you watch Space Seed, it is mentioned that Khan’s crew is of many different races. Given that they are the result of eugenic breeding, there is no reason to assume that Khan, or any of his crew, are 100% of any group.

795. intruder - May 19, 2013

I took 9/11 as a secondary social commentary, the major philosophical point that resonated with me is this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Bs4E0xCHE

It has a father that kills others with a bomb to save his daughter; Khan killing anyone to save those that he held most dear, which sounds noble; Marcus would kill anyone in the Enterprise cold until he discovers his daughter in the ship.

Death is a big player in this movie. The angst, feeling of revenge, confusion and impotence that death brings. We have two extreme close-ups at the dying eyes of both Pike and Kirk. Both Spock and Kirk give themselves to the supreme sacrifice without thinking twice. Both Wrath of Khan and Into Darkness are about Kirk growing up and accepting death. Remember Kirk’s word in the Genesis cave: I haven’t faced death. I’ve cheated death. I’ve tricked my way out of death and patted myself on the back for my ingenuity. I know nothing. That’s the Darkness.

Sure enough, San Francisco does look like New York on 9/11 and it was on purpose. The obvious answer would be hunting Marcus (or Bush) down for subverting our pain into anger, but the real answer has many more layers and ambiguities and the movie did quite well in giving part of those answers.

796. LizardGirl - May 19, 2013

Benedict Cumberbatch playing an Indian man, and as Bill Bradley (758) states, a Punjabi Sikh…

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gurvinder_singh_hamza/4312256811/

Hmmm….nope! Don’t see any issues here!!!

797. Bucky - May 19, 2013

Pike rather blatantly points out that they were already violating the Prime Directive beforehand, which Spock tries to get out of, and Pike calls him out on a technicality, and Spock’s response is a rather perfect “I am Vulcan, sir, I embrace technicality.”

798. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

@796. Heh, he is even paler than Cumberbatch or myself, thanks for sharing that Lizardgirl.

799. Qcjoe - May 19, 2013

I laugh at fans that say this movie has nothing to say. The fact that Enterprise was sent to kill a Federation citizen with out trial even though he was a terrorist speaks volumes as to where America is as a country. This just happened I think it was a year ago when the current administration killed a terrorist that was a United States citizen with out a trial. On that note I loved every second of it.

800. Phobos - May 19, 2013

Going for my 2nd viewing at 7h10 tonight. IMAX tonight (finally got a seat booked online ahead of time). Woohoo!

If anyone in Montreal is reading this and are going tonight, see you there!

801. geodesic17 - May 19, 2013

You know, there was never an in-cannon explanation for the original Khan’s Spanish accent. Nor was there ever an explanation for a Frenchman with a British accent.

I look forward to the ‘Harrison’ comics. Obviously he was given a new identity and face by Admiral Marcus and Section 31.

802. Paul (London) - May 19, 2013

Pegg insults the audience did not see that one coming at all he needs to hire a PR agent methinks! I just lost a lot of respect for the guy.

http://collider.com/simon-pegg-star-trek-into-darkness-interview/
Collider: How nice is it to finally be answering questions about the sequel instead of when is it going to happen?

“Pegg: It’s great and a relief but we’re still remaining tight lipped about the plot. I don’t care how many spoiler monsters plaster story details across their blogs, we’re still keeping schtum. It’s important to protect the audience experience and that sometimes means protecting the audience from itself. Someone on Twitter accused me of lying about a plot detail of Into Darkness the other day, as though I owed them the truth in some way; as if there is some law somewhere that states film makers have to fess up to the secrets of their movies if speculation randomly hits upon a truth. I say screw that, as far as I’m concerned, the people who are hell bent on ruining the film for everyone else are the enemy and I owe them nothing, least of all the truth.”

Collider: Who made the first joke about lens flares?

“Probably some film student who wanted to demonstrate his or her knowledge of film terminology, thus elevating themselves to an assumed level of critical superiority, which gave them the kind of smug, knowing smile that indicates a festering sour grape, fizzing in the pit of their own ambition. It’s become a sort of communal stick to have a crack at JJ with, mostly by people who didn’t know what the fuck lens flare was, until someone started sneering the term all over their blog. It demonstrates JJ’s supreme talent as a film maker that the main means of knocking him is to magnify a throw away artistic choice, into some sort of hilarious failing. Lens flare is essentially an anomaly caused by light hitting the lens and creating refracted shapes. Because it draws attention to the fact that we are looking at a filmed event, it actually creates a subliminal sense of documentary realism and makes the moment more vital and immediate. In the same way Spielberg spattered his shots with bloody seawater in Saving Private Ryan, JJ suggests that the moment we are in is so real and alive, there just isn’t time to frame out all the light and activity. The irony is by acknowledging the film’s artifice, you are enhancing the reality of the moment. It’s clever and I love it. On set we call it ‘best in show’ and our amazing director of photography, Dan Mindel has a special technique to achieve it. To the detractors, I offer a polite fuck you and suggest you find a new stick to beat us with, if being a huge, boring neggyballs is necessary for your personal happiness.”

803. ralph pinheiro - May 19, 2013

Box office Mojo:
$ 84,091,000 USA
$80,500,000 Foreign Gross
= $164,591,000 Worldwide Gross. What do you think? disappointing or not that bad?

804. Bucky - May 19, 2013

Also, I dunno why, but I’ve dug Anthony’s “shall we begin” line to each thread because it really sets up the vibe of comment talkback general chaos that these threads tend to end up as.

805. Alt-Spock - May 19, 2013

@801 you’d rather Montalban sounded like Raj from Big Bang Theory? ;)

806. Bucky - May 19, 2013

I’m assuming by next week, if both of those drop 50% (which most movies generally do) it would already have 200 million dollars in the bank inside of 2 weeks of worldwide release which is not bad at all. And considering the last flick only made 120 mil internationally, this seems on target to surpass it. The real test is how the movie will hold domestically in week 3, and see if it’s as “leggy” as the last Trek flick was. Which I do think it will be. Probably hang out in theatres for over a month, which is pretty good.

People tossing out billion dollar grosses for Into Darkness were being a tad crazy but I think when all the beans are counted, it will gross even more than the last flick.

807. geodesic17 - May 19, 2013

@804 Alt-Spock

Kal Penn would have made a good Khan.

808. intruder - May 19, 2013

By the way, I loved the Enterprise emerging from the ocean, it was one of the most beautiful things I ever saw.

And that warp…

809. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

Simon Pegg – LOL Good on ya, mate…:))

810. LizardGirl - May 19, 2013

@Unwanted (798)

It’s kind of ridiculous at this point, isn’t it? Thought I’d be a smarty pants with that post.

@geodesic17 (801)

That’s what’s so crazy about this! An Indian man with a Spanish accent is okay, but an Indian man with a British accent is CRAAZY, what the heck?

Also, as my link shows, people are more diverse than most give credit for.

For example:

A person identifies themself as African American (like Benedict’s Khan of Punjabi Sikh Indian decent). Then some random person comes up to them and says, “Ah-ah, not so fast! Your skin’s not the right color and your voice isn’t ethnic enough, so I find it very unlikely that you are what you say you are. Sorry, but you don’t really qualify as an Punjabi Sikh Indian. Oh by the way, I’m of German decent myself (and therefore have no idea what I’m talking about!).

Just saying…

811. KenT. - May 19, 2013

795- Marcus (Bush) really?

I was deployed twice after 9/11 not for revenge but to bring the war they declared on us to them and to keep our families safe.

I had a lot of problems with Bush but comparing him to Marcus is way off and hurtful. I was never a fan of Bush but let’s be real. Marcus wanted war and was willing to kill his fellow countrymen to get it. Bush wanted to keep the fight overseas and you could make several good arguments of the validity of Iraq. You’re entiltled to your opinion but it is very hurtful to those who fought for a noble cause.

This movie hit on some very current issues along the lines with American terrorists being killed by drones today in soveriegn countries. I think it is a valid concern, Keep in mind that drone killings are much more in use today than they were 6 years ago. I would still would call it a huge stretch to compare Obama to Marcus.

I know this site is about STID and I apologize but that one post really was upsetting and I guess I need to govern my passions.

I’ll keep it focused on STID going forward Anthony. Thanks.

812. LizardGirl - May 19, 2013

So let me just clarify from my last post before I get slammed.

the paraphrased…(like Benedict’s Khan of Punjabi Sikh Indian decent) was a comparison to the example I’m using. Not actually saying Khan’s a black guy!!!

813. RST - May 19, 2013

Does anyone think that Khan’s blood could be used to revive Shatner Kirk if Spock Prime manages to get back to his alternate parallel universe?

814. CraigM - May 19, 2013

Ok. Just got back from seeing it for the first time. Thoughts:

Cumberbatch as Khan was rumored long, long ago so it really wasn’t a surprise. What did surprise me was Adm. Marcus being a villain and (I suspect) a member of Section 31.

I know why Scotty had to be taken out of Engineering in terms of the story (he had to sabotage the Vengeance) but why make Chekov the head of Engineering in his place? Surely there were other engineering officers on hand with more experience. Again, I know this was done to give Anton Yelchin something to do (and the “Put on a red shirt” line was great) but it just didn’t make sense for the story.

Really glad to see McCoy having a larger role here. Hope the next movie is a proper Kirk/Spock/McCoy adventure.

Nice to see Carol Marcus on board. Will be good for Uhura to have another female officer around, though I kind of dread the idea of a Kirk and Marcus/Spock and Uhura double date taking up screen time in the next movie. ;)

Nice bit with “Captain” Sulu and the chair. :)

I would have preferred a more traditional Trek movie ending with the Enterprise at least firing a shot. It seemed to end rather abruptly with the “One Year Later” bit, but at least we got to hear Chris Pine give the famous “where no one has gone before” and the start of the 5 year mission.

815. geodesic17 - May 19, 2013

@813.

Given that they hadn’t been dead that long and they had to put Kirk in a cryo-tube so that they could preserve him, no; Shatner Kirk is worm-food.

816. Wes - May 19, 2013

Chekov putting on a red shirt and down in engineering was an homage to the fact that We did not see Chekov in ‘Space Seed’ yet Khan knows him in Trek II. The idea was that he was in engineering during space seed!

817. Killamarshtrek - May 19, 2013

@802

“Pegg: Someone on Twitter accused me of lying about a plot detail of Into Darkness the other day, as though I owed them the truth in some way; as if there is some law somewhere that states film makers have to fess up to the secrets of their movies if speculation randomly hits upon a truth. I say screw that, as far as I’m concerned, the people who are hell bent on ruining the film for everyone else are the enemy and I owe them nothing, least of all the truth.”

Ooops, I think that may have been me. What happened was he was responding to somone else’s tweet (can’t remember what it was about) & ended the tweet saying ‘I can’t lie’. So I replied saying ‘Oh I dunno, how about “It’s not Khan, that’s just a myth”?’ He didn’t respond to me though!

In answer to what he said: Yes Simon, you owe EVERYONE the truth not only Trek fans but if you think the truth will spoil our enjoyment of the film, you also have the option of saying nothing!

818. KenT - May 19, 2013

Is the new navigator, Darwin, Deltan?

819. Paul (London) - May 19, 2013

@817
He should have said nothing or I cannot speak about the movie yet like everyone else said instead of insulting the people like us who pay his inflated salary with our hard earned money.

Appaling lack of judgement IMO.

820. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

# 799. Qcjoe – May 19, 2013

” The fact that Enterprise was sent to kill a Federation citizen with out trial even though he was a terrorist speaks volumes as to where America is as a country. This just happened I think it was a year ago when the current administration killed a terrorist that was a United States citizen with out a trial. On that note I loved every second of it.” – Qcjoe

Could you clarify your meaning here? Because I can’t believe you meant to imply that you “loved every second of” the altFederation, which has no death penalty, attempting to kill Federation citizens without trials?

821. The Vulcanista - May 19, 2013

I haven’t read through all the comments, but I LOVED this movie. It felt like Star Trek to me.

Great job and kudos to JJ and the Supremes for a job well done!!!

822. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

@811. Thank you for your service, that is all I wanted to say, except that I agree with you.

823. Craiger - May 19, 2013

#820 – Admiral Marcus was acting alone and against Starfleet. Kirk didn’t know this. Not sure if Marcus was with Section 31. Kirk also didn’t follow his orders.

824. Craiger - May 19, 2013

I also think Starfleet would have wanted him brought to trial.

825. sean - May 19, 2013

#820

If I’m not mistaken, he means he loves that the movie condemned the action.

826. Mark - May 19, 2013

@811
The comment on 795 bothered me too. Thank you for your service!

827. Matzukado - May 19, 2013

This has just occured to me, so apologies if I hven’t quite worked out all the details yet.

Is it possible that the writers are playing around with the katra idea? Spock melded with Pike just before his death and later went into an emotional meltdown. That kind of reminds me of McCoy’s experience of carrying Spock’s katra around in the previous set of movies.

It just didn’t seem altogether “him” and I wonder if there was a little Pike going on in there. I might be way off, of course, but it makes sense given the reaction to Kirk’s death. I’m not suggesting Spock wasn’t moved either, but they certainly didn’t seem close enough to drive a Vulcan to tears.

828. sean - May 19, 2013

#717

I agree that replacing Eastern actors with Western ones is an unfortunate tradition in Hollywood, but I would like to point out that Yul Brynner was not a Western actor. He was North Asian, born in Vladivostok which is near the Russian border with China & North Korea. He had Buryat-Mongol ancestry. So admittedly he wasn’t Thai, but he was Asian.

829. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

@827. It’s not just you, I have had some similar thoughts rattling around my head since I saw the meld. It is possible that Spock melded with Pike specifically to save his Katra, after all Pike was his first Captain, someone he respects, and looks up to, and he quite possibly felt that Pike’s Katra was as worthy of saving as any Vulcans would have been.

830. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

#825 – Yes that is what I thought the poster meant.

The writers paralleled the action of having a US citizen killed without a trial and condemned it. John Harrison/Khan was a similar person who Admiral Marcus ordered Kirk to kill and even fire on a planet to make sure. Spock immediately queried such an order…

Someone, on this thread or another, mentioned that Admiral Marcus used Kirk because he knew Kirk would not follow orders etc. I think Marcus allowed Kirk to be reinstated as a senior officer for the opposite reason. Kirk had been chewed out by his friend and mentor, Admiral Pike, for not following orders, so when he was reinstated, Kirk needed to prove that he could follow orders and do what was expected of him by the senior officers, including Admiral Marcus. That is why Kirk allowed the torpedoes to be brought aboard the Enterprise, despite Scotty’s misgivings and eventual resignation. This was also why he, at first, was prepared to do as Admiral Marcus ordered – find Harrison and kill him…in spite of this order going against Starfleet regulations.

831. Matzukado - May 19, 2013

I agree. It would also explain an otherwise out of character outburst from Spock. He’s already admitted to struggling with his own emotions – experiencing someone else’s directly might be enough to push him over the edge. Especially a still relatively inexperienced Spock.

832. Matzukado - May 19, 2013

^^ in response to @829

833. Doug Haffner - May 19, 2013

I had said I’d be disappointed if this was Khan. I was wrong. This was a great story, wonderful twists and hit all the notes I wanted to experience. I was so impressed at the development of the crew into the kind of people and kind of team we took as granted at the beginning of TOS. Kirk has learned a lesson in humility and hubris that he may not have even learned until Spock and his son died in the other timeline.

One of the things I came to enjoy about LOST was the combination of action and sacrifice, played against music that spoke to the consequences of what was happening. J.J. has adopted this technique with great success.

Thanks for the ride!

834. geodesic17 - May 19, 2013

In order to please the most strident of Trekkers, the next Star Trek movie will be 2 hours of middle-aged men sitting around a conference table as they try to debate their way out of a locked conference room.

835. Bucky - May 19, 2013

I don’t think Spock was saving Pike’s katra, I think he was just calming him at his moment of death. Or at least trying to but he got feelings of rage, hate, and confusion.

As for Kirk going to kill “Harrison” on Marcus’ orders, that was a moral conundrum which, Kirk being the evolved person he is, does eventually put down after going out for the mission.

There’s a big question in this flick, “what would you do to save paradise?” which kind of makes it a cousin to “In Pale Moonlight”. They’d make a good thematic double-feature.

836. Craiger - May 19, 2013

Star Trek 2009 is about to start on FX again.

837. Tom - May 19, 2013

The new movies seem to be following the pattern of the old movies, TMP reassembled the crew. The 09 movie got the crew together. Trek 2 was Khan as was Into Darkness. So could 3 be Klingons like Search for Spock? That is definitely a possibility since there were nice setups around the Klingons for the future

838. Phil - May 19, 2013

Well, if there is a plus side to the box office numbers, the foreign numbers look pretty good. Next week will tell against FF6….

839. geodesic17 - May 19, 2013

Here is one way of looking at the alternative reality. The universe is a dynamical system. The events of Star Trek 2009 changed some of the conditions in the system, but over all the majority of the actors (people, star systems, etc.) in the system are still in place. Therefore, although there will be differences, the alternate universe will tend to converge at the same points as the prime universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_system

If we use the ‘time is a river’ metaphor, think of throwing something into the river. There are ripples and changes, but over time the river converges at the same bends.

840. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

#834. geodesic17 – May 19, 2013

MY DINNER WITH ANDORIANS

841. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@827. Matzukado,
“Is it possible that the writers are playing around with the katra idea?”

Well they touched on every other aspect of TWOK. How would this work exactly? Where would Pike’s Katra end up? Surely McCoy’s Khan blood serum wouldn’t rear itself again to revive Pike, would it? Then there’s the time span. STID concludes a year after the Khan events, so if something were going to happen to Pike’s Katra, it surely already happened soon after the conclusion of the Khan events, so they’d have to go back and revisit it in flashback in the future.

Obviously for these guys to take any screen time to do something it must have meaning that will come back at some point if not the next film.

842. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

#825. sean – May 19, 2013

#830. Keachick – rose pinenut – May 19, 2013

I’ll defer to your interpretations, but “On that note” usually means that what follows is related to what was just immediately said or what just happened.

843. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

I had not thought that Spock’s reaction to Kirk’s death might have something to do with Spock’s earlier mind-meld with the dying Christopher Pike. However, given Spock’s very emotional reaction, the suggestion does have merit. I am certain that had Kirk been dying and Pike been in Kirk’s place, Pike would have wept for Kirk in much the same way as Kirk had wept for Pike. I think that the Pike/Kirk relationship had become something akin to a father/son relationship.

This is just a great film – there is so much that is wonderful about it.

Very cool movie!

844. SDF-1 - May 19, 2013

@830

Also, I have no problems with trek paralleling with the real world. I for one found the Deep Space Nine episodes like In the Pale Moonlight one of a handful of best episodes to me. Capt Sisko was correct and i would have done that too in the situation, War is hell and the episode “Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges” (there are things that men must do to protect men like you, i am twisting what Agent Solan said to Dr. Bashir. also life is filled with “Darkness” i think it fits well with this movie. plus your explanation.

845. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

@844. *Agent Sloan*, sorry to pick nits bud.

846. Russell Meyers - formerly rm10019 - May 19, 2013

Just tuned into Trek 2009 as well for quick look. Still hoping for a Bluray extra showing young Montalban in another tube in the room at the end.

847. Matzukado - May 19, 2013

@841 – point well taken.

Perhaps I’m off about the katra idea – maybe simply more of an echo of Pike’s feelings just before death finding their way into Spock’s overburdened synapses? :)

I’m more comfortable with that idea than Spock showing his grief so openly.

848. mcflycat - May 19, 2013

796:

oh right! You found a picture of a light skinned Indian… THAT LOOKS LIKE AN INDIAN. Benedict Cumberbatch does NOT look like an Indian, I don’t care if their skin color matches.

849. Matt Wright - May 19, 2013

835. Bucky – I don’t think Spock was saving Pike’s katra, I think he was just calming him at his moment of death. Or at least trying to but he got feelings of rage, hate, and confusion.

That’s the way I interpreted it at well, he’s clearly trying to help Pike die quietly and with less pain by melding with him and helping to transfer some of his calm logical mind with Pike’s, and it seems he also did it for the sheer curiosity of the sensation of death. He implies his as much during his spat with Uhura on the civilian ship (Mudd’s ship) while over Qo’noS. And during the same scene he says directly that he got waves of pain, hate, confusion, etc. that comes from a human’s realization of imminent death.

850. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

@847 I still think Katra had something to do with it, Spock is culturally trained (as a Vulcan) to meld with a person near death for the express purpose of preserving their Katra, and (this is just my opinion) I think it more likely Spock was acting in accordance with Vulcan traditions than that he was trying to comfort Pike and was “overwhelmed” by Pike’s emotions. After all, like he said when they were on Mudd’s ship, he had already felt the emotions that Pike felt as he died, multiplied by billions, when his planet was destroyed, so it is highly unlikely that one human being’s dying emotions could overwhelm him.

851. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 19, 2013

@841. Curious Cadet

It’s possible, I suppose (Pike’s ‘Katra’), but I’m not really convinced at this stage. Vulvans are telepaths; Humans are not. I don’t recall anything in previous Star Trek that would lead me to believe that Humans possess a Katra per se. I don’t want to get into a religious debate here, so my view is that a Katra is a Vulcan attribute directly related to their telepathy, and not necessarily congruent with the Human concept of Soul.

In my view, the meld with Pike has already served a purpose in STID. It, and its effects, feed directly into Spock’s ‘feelings about feeling’ in the revelatory conversation between himself and Uhura on Mudd’s vessel, and leading to his confession that choosing not to feel did not mean he did not care for her, as in fact the opposite was true.

This, together with the discussion with Kirk and Khan about family, and culminating with his discussion with the dying Kirk, leads Spock to the revelation about friendship and family and sacrifice, as all the pieces of the puzzle fall into place in his mind, and he finally realises the depth of friendship he has with Kirk – just as he is losing it. Hence the emotional breakdown.

It’s not just the conversations that get him to that point, of course. It’s the things he experiences, the actions he must take, the actions he sees others must take, that all feed into the revelatory moment. The meld with Pike is one of those experiences.

Anyway, that’s my opinion.

852. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

Guys, check the Box Office story (link below), STID is now officially 4million dollars ahead of where ST09 was on its first sunday.

http://trekmovie.com/2013/05/18/into-darkness-headed-to-70m-domestic-open-weekend-75m-international/

853. Qcjoe - May 19, 2013

820. I didnt say either way. I liked the movie and it had a point for people to think about.

854. mcflycat - May 19, 2013

796:

By your logic the below guy could of played Kirk, because you know, same skin color…

http://bit.ly/1602RPd

855. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

#841. Curious Cadet – May 19, 2013

Well, if you have his katra then you wouldn’t necessarily have to restore his original body. You’d just have to have some way to guarantee the katraless cloning of a new body for it to reside. The template being set by TSFS.

But I wonder what would come of just concentrating on restoring one of Pike’s organs with the K-serum? Could it regenerate the entire body from just one organ? For that matter, one cell?

856. Karen - May 19, 2013

@802, 817

Simon Pegg is my new hero.

Seriously, what is it with the sickening entitlement of some fans?

No, boys and girls, the storytellers do not have to tell you their story before the film opens. They don’t have to confirm any accidentally accurate speculation before the film opens. They don’t have to tell you a single damn thing they don’t want to tell you about their story before the film opens.

Bless the Trek team for being so dedicated to preserving the story they want to tell, and protecting it from being ruined by people who at the end of the day have no respect for the storytellers, or the rest of the audinence who don’t want their experience spoiled.

857. mcflycat - May 19, 2013

856. Karen – May 19, 2013

I’m with you Karen! Where do these fans get off? It’s like they’re fanatics about Star Trek or something!

I think it’s kinds of like sports fans complaining about how they’re team is being managed when they have no right. Let the coaches and Managers (Producers and directors) do their thaaaang. It’s not like the fans ARE paying for the entertainment the provide or anything…

858. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

#854. mcflycat – May 19, 2013

I think your point is lost when Shatner’s baldness and other physical changes over the years never stopped him from playing the character.

Besides, a hirsute Kirk would definitely explain the character’s allure to catwomen.

859. Trekman93 - May 19, 2013

Into Darkness was awesometacular! The portrayal of Khan was surprisingly good. As it was played by an English actor. Still kind of had a problem with him not being a dark skinned man like how Ricardo Montalban was. They should of put Cumberbatch in a tanning salon and darkened him up more. Lol. But otherwise than that, he made the Khan role his own, putting a different take on the character. Which was pretty descent. Even if there was so many different dark skinned actors in the world they could of picked upon to relate to how Khan originally looked.
I hope they make a comic book spin off explaining how Admiral Marcus found the Botany Bay and they should give a good explanation on how Khan’s appearance drastically changed into being a white man in Starfleet.
I liked how this movie honored the previous Star Trek’s that have come before without rehashing them. Especially for Wrath of Khan. Spock yelling Khan, well I can take or leave that. Kirk Prime yelled Khhhaaaannnnn!!!!!! better still.
About Khan’s healing blood, why couldn’t he just have just saved Marla McGivers in the prime universe as she was dying on Ceti Alpha V?
Anyone can try to answer this question for me.

860. Khan was Framed! - May 19, 2013

The movie was incredible!!!

It exceeded all of my expectations & then some.

I was not fully convinced by ST 2009 & was really hoping that JJ & co. would redeem their disregard for canon with this film & they did completely!!

I can’t wait to see it again!!!

861. mcflycat - May 19, 2013

858:

As long as we’re making excuses for casting…

Cat women would be more into MY nukirk… http://bit.ly/1602RPd . You presume the humanoid cat species would also share our opinion of what it means to be attractive.

Cat woman 1: “You see that weird looking guy with hair on his head and no where else, he’s drunk. Let’s get him back to the room and steal his wallet.”

Kirk doesn’t talk about it in the movie because it’s embarrassing for him that he got robbed.

862. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

@859. Dude they put Montalban in “brownface” makeup for Space Seed, that isn’t his real skin color, take a look at TWOK, see how pale he is, THAT is his real skin color. Check Fantasy Island out sometime, just as pale as he is in TWOK (used to watch it with my grandma), which is actually surprising considering he supposedly lived on a tropical island in that series.

863. Mcflycat - May 19, 2013

862:

Then skin color is only part of the problem. He doesn’t look anything like an Indian. OK, so they brown face Montalban, they also dressed him Indian clothes. He was acting (playing) an Indian despite the actors heritage, accent, etc… and I think Montalban pulled it off. The same way Daniel Day Lewis pulled off being a Mohican.

So the question still remains. Was Benedict Cumberbatch playing an Indian? And if so, when watching the movie were you convinced of that through appearance OR dialog?

OR… Khan is not Indian in this timeline (which doesn’t make sense)

OR… Was Khan modified by section 31? (we’ll never know from watching the movie.)

That’s it… which one of those options suit you? I’m sticking with the first option. It’s just kind of funny to think of BC as an Indian when I watch the movie.

864. Bucky - May 19, 2013

# 859. About Khan’s healing blood, why couldn’t he just have just saved Marla McGivers in the prime universe as she was dying on Ceti Alpha V?

I would assume that McCoy (hell, teched out alt-reality JJ-verse McCoy at that!) had better access to medical technology than the post-expoldey Ceti Alpha V. Also, in TWOK, Khan admits that the Ceti Eels killed his men. So his “superior” genes didn’t work in that case. But I do buy that Khan could laugh off simple radiation poisoning like the common cold.

#849 That’s the way I interpreted it at well, he’s clearly trying to help Pike die quietly and with less pain by melding with him and helping to transfer some of his calm logical mind with Pike’s, and it seems he also did it for the sheer curiosity of the sensation of death.

True, the subtext to the Pike mindmeld is Spock is being scientific (or maybe somewhat creepy) when someone dies by experiencing the moment. Which is a really subtle part of some Vulcan stories, they do have this weirdly supernatural side to them. Don’t talk about it much. Simply best not to be around a vulcan when you dying. Weird things tend to happen.

Anyway, when Spock and Khan are fighting on Earth, and Khan goes for the crushy-head fatality move, I don’t think Spock fought him off with a pinch, he just got his fingers on his face, I think that was another Vulcan mind meld, but a really aggressive one that, at the very least, threw Khan off balance. So mind-meld as combat weapon is something I don’t think we’ve seen before either in Trek.

865. Bucky - May 19, 2013

everything aside, let’s take a moment to appreciate this speech and delivery by Khan in here:

“Well, let’s play this out logically then, Mr Spock. Firstly, I will kill your captain to demonstrate my resolve, then, if your’s holds I will have no choice but to kill you and your entire crew…Your crew requires oxygen to survive, mine does not. I will target your life support systems located behind the aft nacelle. And after every single person aboard your ship suffocates I will walk over your cold corpses to recover my people.

Now…shall we begin?”

866. Trekman93 - May 19, 2013

Oh. Ok. Thanks for answering the questions and opinions I had you guys! @862, 863 and 864

867. BotanyBay - May 19, 2013

@865, definitely Khan’s best moment in the movie. One of my favorite scenes of the film! So great. Though the “aft nacelle” line seems weird…either way it’s badass

868. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

@863. Option C for me, which is, as a product of genetic engineering Khan’s DNA is composed of chromosomes from world renowned scientists, athletes, and other such “superior” specimens, carefully combined one chromosome at a time to create the perfect being, a being belonging to a new species of humanoid, with no real ties to any segment of the old species, other than cultural and perhaps spiritual.

869. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

# 861. mcflycat – May 19, 2013

“Cat women would be more into MY nukirk” – mcflycat

I know. That’s why I said so. Odd you felt the need to repeat it.

870. Phil - May 19, 2013

In other words, X-Men…

871. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

#857 – “It’s not like the fans ARE paying for the entertainment the provide or anything…”

Well, up until the film is released for general exhibition, the fans are NOT paying for anything. Given how people blab after they have been treated to a special screening prior to general release, even when they are politely asked not to reveal anything by the producer/director, I am with Simon Pegg.

Some fans need a real arse whipping.

I found out that John Harrison was Khan more than a week before the movie was released on 9 May and I should not have found out. This was because people, who were lucky enough to see premier screening, could keep their f*cking traps shut and blab all over the IMDb STID message board, without even using spoiler tags…

A couple of reviewers (presumably journalists who should have known much better) even revealed Harrison’s other identity. Curiously, these were the most critical and negative reviews – clearly they had little respect for the film and film makers and even less respect for any prospective audience.

Such self-centered, ignorant a**holes!

Go – Simon Pegg!!!

872. BotanyBay - May 19, 2013

Not sure if this has been posted, but an interview with Orci/Kurtzman about some easter eggs in the movie. Anthony gets a shout out too!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/10-big-star-trek-references-in-star-trek-into-darkness

873. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

No Phil, the mutants of the Marvel Universe were not created intentionally by any being, well at least not the majority of them, there are a few clones and stuff in there, no I was thinking more of a season 2 TNG episode about genetic engineering.

874. Disinvited - May 19, 2013

# 861. mcflycat – May 19, 2013

You might find it interesting that this is not the first time a Montalban character was recast with a Brit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Island#1998_series

Malcolm McDowell played Mr. Roarke

For some reason casting directors seem drawn to the choice.

875. Adolescent Nightmare - May 19, 2013

Saw it again today in 3D. Still incredible.

876. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

Kurtzman directly said that Anthony influenced a part of the movie!

Thanks for sharing BotanyBay (below copied from the article)

“There’s a quick moment after Scotty (Simon Pegg) saves the day in Into Darkness when Kirk calls him a “miracle worker” — an honor bestowed upon Scotty many times in the original series and films.

Turns out, the moment was due to a superfan request.

“To be honest, one of our friends who runs trekmovie.com, Anthony Pascale, said, ‘You gotta have that line in there somewhere,’” says Kurtzman. “He reminded us that that was a classic thing, and we found the perfect place for it right there.”

877. Kevin Browning - May 19, 2013

Saw it again today!!!!

I think it knocked TWOK off of its No.1 spot…

Awesome Movie!!!!

878. Henry - May 19, 2013

Hello Everyone!
I love that we get the opportunity to talk about it here on this forum so thank you to TrekMovie!
I’ve seen the movie twice now. I’m a Looong term Trek fan, It has been with me for as long as I’ve been alive thanks to my father.
Anyhow…here are a few of my thoughts.

@ 521. MelyBelle44

RE: “I loved Spock quite deeply in ST09; I loved him a little less in this one. Part of what I loved about Spock was his restraint after Vulcan (with the exception of when Kirk provoked him). Anyone with eyes could see that he was emotional, but he kept himself composed, grieved behind closed doors, and portrayed calm and cool to his crew. I didn’t expect tears; I didn’t want tears. It bugs me that after seeing his entire planet destroyed, his mother whom he worshiped and knew his entire life killed, and he did not shed one tear. His mentor and friend Christopher Pike dies, and he is stoic as they come. A guy who he has had a wishy washy relationship with and only known for 6 months, dies and he is weeping openly. Huh?”

This is a great, great point you make, and one of my peeves about the film also. It just did not, in any way, make sense for Spock to react like that to Kirk’s death …at THAT time at least
And yes, some people can say…it could have been the build-up of everything.
But I don’t buy that one bit. If he didn’t cry after Vulcan got destroyed, after his mother, oh lovely Winona, died, why oh why would Spock go so apeshit over someone he, at first really did not like, and now has only known for maybe a year?
I found that aspect disappointing.

Also, please excuse me but I cannot remember which poster said this, but somebody said that, the trekkies who wanted the villain to be Khan since ST09 have no right to now be complaining as the writers having given them exactly what they wanted.
Ok yes, I see your point. But I don’t think it’s fair.
I was one of those people.
Khan was a badass muther. THE biggest badass probably ever, bar maybe The Borg (Pre- Voyager diluting), so obviously I would’ve liked to have seen what these new fresh guys would do with him in this altered timeline.

And indeed, when I first watched the film I was one of those people cheering in the audience with excitement when the great Hannibal Lecter style scene finally revealed Harrison’s true identity.
And yes, the excitement grew when suddenly, Kirk, Scotty and Khan were all working together.
“Is this a new Khan? Are they now allies?” I asked myself, thinking that this would be a possibly VERY satisfying spin on the Khan storyline.
But no, he became the maniacal devil he always was.

But I think my problem with the whole Khan thing is probably a lot of people’s problem with it.
It’s not that it was Khan. It was the fact that there was SO much more borrowed from the Wrath of Khan.; a film that I think everyone can say is the best, maybe not their favourite, but the best film in the entire series.
There are real vested emotions in that film. I think we’re all proud of TWOK as Star Trek fans because we genuinely know that it is a GREAT genre film, regardless of it being Trek.
As I said, I feel like my annoyance with this film is probably what other people’s issues are too.
STID just took too much and took too much of a liberty with what TWOK had done before. I felt sorry for the non-trekkie people in the audience watching the scene where Kirk dies in STID because I know they probably would not have seen the TWOK version with Spock dying which was done better and which meant significantly more to everyone; ST characters and viewers alike. And now IF they do see it, they are never going to see it for the heart-breaking and brilliant scene it was. They just cannot….because it will be already so familiar because of STID. And this upsets me.

I don’t know what to make of STID yet. Even after two watches, I am very, very confused as to what I make of it.
As I said I’ve watched it twice. I appreciate what the guys have tried to do. I appreciate that they have tried to please absolutely EVERYONE with this and I thank them for doing so.

I will say however, the first time I went to see this move, knowing that it was made with a view aimed at non-trekkies in particular; I brought my friends who know beyond nothing of Star Trek.
Yes, ok, it was me trying to get them into it so I would have more friends I could nerd out with. And yes, I had to do the whole: “Ok, so Star Wars and Star Trek are different. Star Wars was the one with……Star Trek is about…….peace……..no money……no war…..Gene Roddenberry…hopeful future……etc.” speech that I know many of us have made a good few times in our lives to others.
So after this I made them watch ST 09. They all really enjoyed that although they questioned me on some of the elements I had told them about that made Star Trek different from Star Wars. They saw a revenge story mostly, but there was enough other things to tell them that yes, ok…this is a view of a brighter tomorrow.

After this film, they couldn’t at all understand where the hopeful future ideas and all of that were. All they saw were explosions and action. They all agreed that they were disappointed by the lack of a storyline (the significance of Khan having zero effect on them obviously). They did say that the genetic engineering story was very interesting, but that it just became a film about explosions and crashing ships and chasing soon enough. They wondered if Star Trek was about ideals, morals and this hope for the future how, then, could people in Star Fleet be so corrupt?
I could not answer that question. All I could say was that this is a new version of Star Trek.
One of the reasons I thought they’d enjoy it was that they are all male, and I knew it would be a massive spectacle of a film; your typical summer blockbuster. Well, They also were not overly in awe of the action sequences, saying that it is not unique to see such action in today’s films…which is true I suppose, and they cited that the space dive already was done etc.

They did, however, all LOVE the opening sequence on Nibiru, as I did. They said that the opening was the only part of the film that sounded anywhere remotely like my explanation of star trek before they had seen anything, which is odd as I found that to be the MOST trekkie element of the film possibly.

Sorry, this is extremely long, but I hope some of you find these points interesting.

Also a question that has been BUGGING ME! Can somebody please explain, because I cannot really understand this myself, how Carol Marcus could possibly have a British Accent in this film, especially as her father is so clearly vocally from the USA?
Specifically since the Carol Marcus we met in TWOK sounded like she was from the US too, I am confused by this.
There are some explanations I have been thinking of myself;
She could’ve been raised in Britain obviously which seems like the most logical reason, she could’ve been adopted….or she could have a British mother….but is the change in the timeline long enough for that to have happened?
I was just wondering would anyone else have a better explanation for that? It REALLY bothered me while I was watching it. I know it is possible, but it was wildly distracting.

Anyways I’ll finish by saying that I will be seeing this film with my elderly father and the rest of my own family the next time. I am looking forward to his reaction and hopefully I will come out of the cinema not so conflicted.

P.s. Chekov in engineering as a reference to Space Seed and him possibly being in engineering during that was a great touch.

879. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

Just remembered, that season 2 TNG episode I mentioned (title Unnatural Selection), featured genetically engineered beings who had antibodies in their blood which could exit their bodies and become an airborne plague that caused accelerated aging, seems superblood due to genetic engineering is not a new thing in Trek.

880. Unwanted - May 19, 2013

@878. Alice Eve, who played Carol, said in an interview a few days ago that there was a deleted scene stating that Carol was raised in England by her mother, which is why she has a british accent.

881. Phobos - May 19, 2013

Just got back from the IMAX. So much better quality than at UltraAVX (which was very good).

The 3D at imax is clearer. Especially on the Cumberbatch in confinment scene and Bones disarming the torpedo.

Cumberbatch is simply MASTERFUL in his acting. So intense.

Only weakness in the movie is the anticlimatic “au revoir” scene on the bridge and the re-use of the same music in the end credits.

Other than that, amazing movie.

882. Jamie - May 19, 2013

Awesome movie! I have only one request/suggestion. I wish this Spock/Uhura nonsense would end. He being a stoic badass and her facing down Klingons is SO much more interesting than seeing them sneaking kisses or having stupid fights. I laughed and rolled my eyes at Uhura muttering under her breath and being unprofessional on the shuttle. Of course she had her awesome scene on Kronos afterwards, but most of her scenes had her looking like a needy girlfriend who’s sad her BF isn’t paying her attention. Get real, you’re dating a Vulcan. She knew what she was getting into. To be upset that Spock is willing to sacrifice himself for his job when it may require it is dumb. Can’t handle it, find another job.

I’ll admit I liked Uhura much more in this film than the last one. I’m just holding out hope that by the next one they’ll break up and then we can really get some devlopement from them that isn’t about whether or not Uhura is pissed at her boyfriend. Or if Spock needs to always stop and think “oh geez I wonder if this will make Uhura mad” before he does his job.

Great acting all around! Boy what a good looking cast (Alice. Karl. Zoe. Pine. WOW) and they play their parts so well. I adored the WOK twist, and actually though the Khan scream was prett cool. The Kirk/Spock relationship and interaction was by far the highlights of the film. MORE BONES next time though, Karl is too perfect as McCoy to be reduced to one liners and metaphors.

Thanks for a great film :)

883. Josh C. - May 19, 2013

872 – this movie is so packed with “homages” that I somewhat doubt their assertions that they didn’t try to shoehorn them in

884. Basement Blogger - May 19, 2013

I was a critic of Star Trek (2009). It was Star Trek light. (And don’t post the hilarious Onion video please. That’s my mother in the Klingon garb. ;-)) I liked that movie but thought it was geared towards teenagers.

So when the Supreme Court announced they would go deeper, I was hopeful. When I left the IMAX theater on Wednesday, I was very happy wtih Star Trek Into Darkness .( STID)

Now STID is not a perfect movie. Director J.J. Abrams needs to trust the audience. There’s no need for all that fast cutting, jump cuts and camera gymnastics. Case in point, the Klingon battle may require one to see it twice to get a feel for it. Or maybe that’s the point. Still, Abrams has a great visual style that is beautiful in color and in its epic quality. The 3D conversion was a cash grab. No pop or depth in this movie. “Hugo” this movie is not. And there are some literal references to The Wrath of Khan that may drive some Trekkers nuts. But I think that might be the timeline trying to correct itself. Look Spock in the Mirror universe is like Spock in the prime universe.

But a good movie starts with a good screenplay. And STID has one. The movie flies with grace between humor, action and big ideas. And Star Trek is science fiction that mixes action with ideas, scientific and philosophical. This one has multiple ideas. The Prime Directive. War. The war on terror. Death. As New York Times critic Janet Maslin once said about Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan after a disappointing Star Trek: The Motion Picture, “That’s more like it.”

The biggest compliment I can give to a Star Trek production, is “They made Star Trek.” In STID, they made Star Trek. The grade is A.

885. Mcflycat - May 19, 2013

Ok, so we all agree that nukirk should of been much hairier.

886. Mcflycat - May 19, 2013

874:

If I cared about fantasy island I would be upset about that recast too.

887. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

“please excuse me but I cannot remember which poster said this, but somebody said that, the trekkies who wanted the villain to be Khan since ST09 have no right to now be complaining as the writers having given them exactly what they wanted.
Ok yes, I see your point. But I don’t think it’s fair.”

That was me, Keachick. I did not mean to sound mean (oh dear…), but I have reading for more than three years people going on about how they either wanted to Khan reimagined or how they didn’t want see Khan, but always kept coming up with stories that had Khan in them (based on Enterprise series). I was sooo very tired of reading this and I could not bear the thought of reading posts coming from people complaining about the fact that the writers made Khan a major adversary. You know how it goes about banging head on concrete to stop the pain…

As far as I can honestly tell, I was the only person here who presented a brief story outline that had nothing to do with augments, genetic engineering, Khan, section 31 etc. In my averagely written story outline, I had the Enterprise actually discover a whole new species and the planet they came from…and boy, did I get crapped on…LOL…:)….:(….:)

Big learning curve for me coming to this and other Star Trek sites.

888. Mcflycat - May 19, 2013

868:

Then just a photo of BC in a turbin then in the movie to explain his cultural adaption.

889. Maltz - May 19, 2013

You know what I don’t like? The sudden death of Admiral Pike. Geez, at least in the Prime Universe he gets to live a few more years, and with Susan Oliver, too! They get to enact whatever fantasies they can think up. I think this idea of killing off main characters is a cop out, and nobody can convince me that “creativity” was the reason behind it. I have heard the word “laziness” used in the comments above, and I have to say that is also my opinion. Not to say it isn’t a whirlwind of a movie. But killing off characters just pisses me off. Star Trek III did it – just when you thought the son of Kirk would be exploring the galaxy for a while with Saavik, they suddenly kill him off. Really? And then there is the Trip thing, and the Data thing. Honestly, killing off main characters only incites harsh criticism from otherwise devoted fans. So I say to Alex and Roberto, enjoy your success, fellas. But let someone else write Star Trek XIII.

890. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

No. We don’t all agree that nuKirk should be hairier. Pine/Kirk is absolutely lovely just the way he is!

Kirk clearly liked to be draped by two furry tails and all…

891. Trekman93 - May 19, 2013

I got one more question anybody can answer again. How would the USS Enterprise end up underwater in the first place without being detected by the natives in the first place?

892. Phil - May 19, 2013

@891. Realistically, it can’t. In the science fantasy universe, you just create a device that counteracts gravity, suppresses sonic booms, dissipates heat, creates buoyancy, and suppresses any exhausts a ship might expel.

Magic, my friend. Sit back and enjoy the show.

893. Phaser On Stun - May 19, 2013

I can’t recommend enough the Pod Cast that discusses the ideas addressed in the film @Screen Rant. They also interview Bob. Many of the old time trek enthusiasts who struggle with the reboot in general or this particular film; the pod cast discusses many of the themes that I think some folks are missing.
http://screenrant.com/star-trek-into-darkness-podcast/

894. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 19, 2013

#882… I am surprised at how many people complain about Uhura’s comments to Spock in the shuttlecraft. This was a resolution to a conversation that she and Kirk had earlier in the turbolift. Both expressed concern about Spock’s behaviour.

The shuttlecraft scene had nothing to do with Uhura’s so-called “neediness”. Remember Uhura said that he was not prepared to discuss the issues at all. She needed to say what she said, in front of Spock and Kirk. The scene was about Spock. It was about Spock finally being able to trust his colleagues (one of whom was also his girlfriend) enough to explain why he is who he is.

#891 – I think that the Enterprise entered the planet’s atmosphere above an ocean where there were few, or no, inhabitants at night. It went underwater and submarined itself as close as it could go to the volcano. I think the plan was to exit the planet the same way…

895. Curious Cadet - May 19, 2013

@868. Unwanted,
“as a product of genetic engineering Khan’s DNA is composed of chromosomes from world renowned scientists, athletes, and other such “superior” specimens, carefully combined one chromosome at a time to create the perfect being, a being belonging to a new species of humanoid, with no real ties to any segment of the old species”

Except that’s not exactly what happened according to Space Seed. Khan was presumably born around 1959 give or take 10 years. That means his “genetic engineering” took place in the 1950s, before DNA was even fully understood. It wasnt until 1954 when the double helix structure and the number of human chromosomes was finally confirmed. The DNA/RNA relationship was not discovered until the late 1950s, with the genetic code not even being deciphered until 1966. Moreover, Kirk and Spock both describe the process involved as “selective breeding”, which has nothing to do with combining chromosomes one by one. This makes sense as the first DNA manipulation did not occur until the 1970s. Indeed, the very term Eugenics used in Space Seed implies the Nazi programs which had nothing to do with direct genetic manipulation, and more to do with animal husbandry. To the extent Khan was crafted in a laboratory, it was the good old fashioned way, with several generations of carefully selected donors.

Furthermore, aside from Khan’s contested ethnic identification by McGivers, Scotty confirms that the rest of the people onboard the Botany Bay comprise ethnic groups that are “Western, mid-European, Latin and Orienta”l. Now Scotty’s hardly an expert on race, but it’s pretty clear that the group is comprised of some fairly diverse physical appearances. This lends further credence to the idea that this group of “supermen” were bred, rather than created from base DNA in which, as you suggest, race was engineered out of them.

896. gingerly - May 19, 2013

@40

I am DYING at your name-change.

XD!!!!!! LOLOL!!!!

Yep, rub it in. ;)

897. gingerly - May 20, 2013

@895

“as you suggest, race was engineered out of them.”

…and so Khan’s now white??

…with blue eyes and beyond white skin? No. That makes no sense.

You’re saying whiteness = lack of race, when if you look at evolution, since black people were the first on the planet, the opposite would actually be closer to the truth.

Mind you, race is a social construct.

Still I’m rightfully angry about the man Roddenberry made a conscious choice to make a Sikh Indian was white-washed.

That decision is not only painfully ironic for Star Trek, but will taint the legacy of this film.

898. gingerly - May 20, 2013

boborci,

Any thoughts about that?

899. Unwanted - May 20, 2013

@895. That is your view, it will never be mine, Scotty was not going by any tricorder readings, he was going by appearance, and therefore his “identification” of the Botany Bay personnel as belonging to specific ethnic groups is completely invalid. Besides which, even if Space Seed implied controlled breeding, TWOK already retconned it to genetic engineering. This was later confirmed by the DS9 and Enterprise Augment episodes.

900. Unwanted - May 20, 2013

@897. That is not even remotely what I said and I will not even dignify that with any further response except to reiterate what I have previously stated, I am, Legally and culturally (as in I was raised in the culture), a Native American, I am also EXTREMELY ethnically mixed, more so than any other person I have ever met, family records identify 10 different ethnic groups in my family tree. Any attempt to associate me with any ethnic bias is doomed to failure, on the basis of sheer stupidity.

901. The Vulcanista - May 20, 2013

Re the disappointing box office receipts. The weather this weekend was horrible for most of the US east of the Mississippi. I’m wondering if that kept people from getting out to the movie. Everyone that I’ve talked to that saw it loved this movie, especially the Trek fans.

902. sean - May 20, 2013

#895

Unfortunately, that explanation in Space Seed makes no sense, as no amount of selective breeding would produce a human with 5 times the strength of a normal person that can bend and crush metal with his bare hands. And that is likely why they retconned it in TWOK with Chekhov’s line about ‘genetic engineering’.

903. bbrain - May 20, 2013

I enjoyed the movie. The performances were top notch, and production values excellent. A drawback with a big feature is that it has to have large set pieces, explosions, violence, threat of the destruction of everything we hold dear….Having made note of this, I appreciate how these set pieces and all the twists and revisits of Star Trek lore are constructed to develop the characters- the significance of how the characters relate to each other. Truly defining. Some of the most significant acting was performed (and directed) without words; eye contact and reactions. Truly defining. I have gone twice and will go again and again. Several quiet moments are very powerful and stirring. Disappointed that Star Trek does not seem to have the buzz that an already tired Iron Man franchise has while this ensemble piece delivered for me.

904. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@899. Unwanted,
“That is your view, it will never be mine, Scotty was not going by any tricorder readings, he was going by appearance, and therefore his “identification” of the Botany Bay personnel as belonging to specific ethnic groups is completely invalid. Besides which, even if Space Seed implied controlled breeding, TWOK already retconned it to genetic engineering. This was later confirmed by the DS9 and Enterprise Augment episodes.”

First of all, that’s not my “view”, I’m merely stating facts.

And they can retcon all they want, the technology simply did not exist prior to the 1970s. As for TWOK, I don’t know how the term “genetic engineering” was defined in 1980, perhaps it included indirect as well as direct gene modification, it was in its infancy in those days. I don’t know DS9 or Enterprise well enough to debate any references. But as I recall, weren’t the augments created in Enterprise 100 years later? What exactly was confirmed, that Khan was “genetically engineered”?

Scotty does have some kind of device with him, which as far as I can tell helps him figure out the controls of the Botany Bay. Who’s to say it doesn’t also give him basic readings of people too, or even scans some kind of electronic data contained in the individual pods? We don’t see what Scotty does, so we can’t assume he basis his evaluation merely on appearance alone.

905. LizardGirl - May 20, 2013

If this Khan isn’t an Indian in the traditional sense, then this could be a possible origin story…. (don’t take it too seriously)

Once Upon A Time

There was a young boy who lived in India with his wealthy British family. He fell in love with the land and the people. But his family took advantage of the locals, mistreating them and ignoring their strife. They lived in the corrupt lap of luxury.

Khan (or whoever he was before taking that name) grew disillusioned with the greed and lavish lifestyle of his own social circle. He disowned them and became a man of the people, changing his name and his citizenship. The locals thought him eccentric: a rich, white British kid who fashions himself an Indian man, ha! Only to realize that he was indeed serious! He fought for the people and became famed across many towns and provinces. Many rallied behind him and before long he was leading a council of influencial young men who protested the mistreating of their people.

Khan always was a charismatic person with a natural sense of leadership and confidence. Yet he began to fear that, with his own preceived limitations, he would never achieve the lofty goals he’s dreamed of achieving: uniting his people and guiding them through a new Golden Age.

Then he heard about the testing…

The call for anyone with the right disposition and genetics could be apart of this program. A program to create super soldiers.

Khan didn’t want to be a super soldier for some misguided cause. He HAD a purpose but he knew he could use these people and their program; bend them to fit his own agenda. The fear of failure started to creep in again. He made his decision…

DUM DUM DAAAH–TO BE CONTINUED

Origin Story Version 2

An Indian family (who spoke British English) adopted him and named him Khan. The end.

906. Trouble with Tribble - May 20, 2013

Can somebody explain what marcus’ plan was? Shoot Botany Bay members to kill kahn into Kronos? Makes no sense.

Why was Kahn superman in this movie? He was never like that in space seed?

907. Josh C. - May 20, 2013

906 – that was pretty much it. and to strand the enterprise in order to start a war.

And khan was superstrong in space seed too though perhaps not this vicious about it

908. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@902. sean,
” that explanation in Space Seed makes no sense”

Yup, I would generally agree with that. However, as a laymen I wouldn’t say it’s impossible, based on what I know about dog breeding.

That said, both Space Seed and TWOK make the same mistake of saying Khan is 200 years old, placing them in stasis around 2066 instead of 1996. Unfortunately they clarify it in both cases by specifying 1990s and “late twentieth century technology. STID doesn’t do us any favors by establishing 300 years, or else we could probably still argue Khan’s rule was actually during the 21st century.

909. AyanEva - May 20, 2013

#906- Trouble with Tribble

This is what I worked out, someone else can correct me if I’ve got it wrong.

What I got was that Marcus wakes up Khan, holds his crew basically as ransom so Khan HAS to do whatever Marcus tells him too. Khan says, “eff that” and uses the torpedoes that he designed for Marcus to try and smuggle his crew to safety. Marcus finds out, confiscates the torpedoes, Khan has to bail without his crew. Khan figures that Marcus has killed his crew as punishment for defying him and then all of the bombings and shootings go down because Khan is out for revenge since he thinks Marcus has killed his people.

Marcus, however, thinks this Klingon War needs to happen sooner rather than later so that the Klingons can be eliminated as a threat once and for all (this is a bit of guessing on my part because I’m not sure it’s clearly stated). Meanwhile, he has 72 frozen superhumans that he needs to rid himself of so he decides to kill two birds with one stone and get rid of any evidence that he woke up Khan or has any of his crew. He sends Kirk so that Marcus won’t be connected with the pre-emptive strike and Kirk is headstrong enough to do it (it was Kirk’s suggestion after all). Marcus senses an opportunity when Kirk offers to go and he rolls with it.

As for why he’s so superhuman…because they have a better budget and can hire awesome stunt coordinators, I guess. I’ve no answer for that one but I really liked that aspect, tbh. Except the magic blood was a bit dodgy but I can overlook that.

910. Phil - May 20, 2013

@901. First, the good news, the foreign box office is up substantially, probably enough to save the day. The movie should make more then it’s predecessor, probably in the 400MM range.

Now, the bad news. Box Office Mojo is forecasting STID to land north of 200MM domestically. It’s being attributed to the four year gap between movies, the bad guy lacking definition (JJ’s secrecy may have bit him on the butt this time out), a competitive May (IM3, TGG, and FF6 next weekend), and STID being pegged as a fan-boy movie this time around, which is something Bad Robot really fought hard to avoid the last time out.

Several outlets are reporting they expect Paramount to make another Trek feature. They are also expecting Paramount to get their act together and quit treating the franchise as an afterthought…at least that’s what I get from it.

911. boborci - May 20, 2013

891

late at night way out at sea.

912. freezejeans - May 20, 2013

911 boborci

See, the very thought of Kirk trying to convince Scotty, Spock, and McCoy to submerge the Big E deserves an entire comic devoted to seeing how that played out. After all, they were supposed to only observe that culture :D

913. AyanEva - May 20, 2013

#911 boborci

It still has to move closer to the shore though because Kirk and Bones jumped off the cliff and it seemed like they didn’t have to swim terribly far to reach the ship. Did they use thrusters then to maneuver like a submarine until they were closer to shore? Or impulse? Can an impulse engine work underwater?

914. Doug - May 20, 2013

too many people writing novels here. How about a word limit, please.

915. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@910. Phil,
“It’s being attributed to the four year gap between movies, the bad guy lacking definition (JJ’s secrecy may have bit him on the butt this time out), a competitive May (IM3, TGG, and FF6 next weekend), and STID being pegged as a fan-boy movie this time around, which is something Bad Robot really fought hard to avoid the last time out.”

So lets discuss these reasons:
1) four year gap between movies: so people forgot how good ST09 was, and have doubts about the fantastic trailers that are running everywhere?

2) Bad guy lacking definition: Harrison is definitely menacing enough, and is all over the trailers. I’m not sure he is any less defined in marketing than Nero was. Is the name Khan really enough to get the uninitiated into seats?

3) A competitive May: I definitely get that Robert Downey Jr. and Leonardo DiCaprio are a much bigger draw for general audiences than BC or Chris Pine. Dwayne Johnson and Vin Diesel are going to be a tough contender next weekend as well. They really should have paid whatever Javier Bardem wanted …

4) pegged as a fan-boy movie: why? What makes this a fan-boy movie over the last one? khan? The homages and references? They’re basically meaningless to general audiences, and do not detract from the film otherwise. How is this that much different than ST09?

5) Paramount treated the franchise as an afterthought? This has to be one of the most massively marketed movies I have ever seen. What else could they have done to place more importance on it?

916. boborci - May 20, 2013

751 Keachick

have responded to u many tines in the past! how could u think i would ignore u? u r one of the most dedicated posters on this site and I appreciate it!

917. Star Trek: Nemesis blows, is the point - May 20, 2013

@910. “They are also expecting Paramount to get their act together and quit treating the franchise as an afterthought…at least that’s what I get from it.”

They’re going to make another Trek movie. That’s obvious.

But aside from that, Star Trek is not being treated like an “afterthought” by Paramount. It’s the only one of two summer blockbuster movies Paramount is releasing in 2013. And most people think World War Z is going to suck. Paramount has made a pretty substantial push with this movie. I’ve only seen it on Hulu and all over ESPN.

With that said, perhaps not pushing the Khan aspect in promos is because Khan isn’t Khan Noonien Singh. There’s only one person who actually calls Khan by his full name, and that’s Spock Prime. Even the movie credits only call him Khan. I think it’s more likely that Cumberbatch could be a Khan, just not Noonien Singh.

In terms of Khan being “superhuman,” just because we didn’t see it in Space Seed or TWOK doesn’t mean he couldn’t have been. Frankly, it didn’t make any sense that Kirk was able to knock him out in Space Seed by hitting him with an inanimate carbon rod of some kind. It was just a way to forward the plot.

Overall, I really enjoyed this movie. Better than ST09, not sure where it ranks amongst the other films, though I’d say it’s better than most. It’s a bit apples to oranges, much like trying to say if TNG was better than TOS, but I might put it at #3 behind TUC and TWOK.

I don’t really understand the Trekkie need to stay married to the old cannon. That’s all fine and good if we were in the prime universe, but we’re not. I think it’s perfectly acceptable to accelerate events to occur if you’re establishing that this universe is similar in it’s events but different in how they unfold. And I think it was fairly well done. And to the dolt who reviewed STID when it came out in Australia: This was hardly a copy of Star Trek: Nemesis. And even if it were, it was far, far superior to that wasted opportunity.

Either way, what we need is a TV show. Give me Captain Sulu at the conn, please. That would be much fun. If we couldn’t get a prime universe Star Trek: Excelsior, let’s at least get an alternate universe version out of it, please.

918. Star Trek: Nemesis blows, is the point - May 20, 2013

@73. “For some folks who may think I got luck with the Khan prediction, and that their was no deductions involved, I want to remind folks of the following exchange I had with Bob Orci on December 3, 2011, which I maintain (even though Bob may still not want to admit it?) was a clue for us that Khan was the villain”

Your confidence is silly. Back in 2009, most moviegoers after having seen Star Trek, when speculating about a possible sequel, would have bet on Khan being the next villain.

So, duh. It was Khan.

919. ML31 - May 20, 2013

OK… I was underwhelmed. Was hoping to get a new or fresh take on Kahn. Didn’t really get it. Adm. Marcus was indeed the REAL bad guy. Would have been a HUGE twist if it turned out Kahn was actually an OK guy.
A lot of scenes did feel rushed. As if they couldn’t go more than 3 minutes of genuine character interaction without getting interrupted for some sort of action scene.
The “death” of Kirk was not NEARLY as emotional as it could have been. Shatner’s Kirk death in Generations was a billion times more moving because we sort of knew there was a certain finality to it. Here, it completely lacked emotional punch. First, these guys really haven’t been together that long. The Kirk-Spock relationship still seemed to be evolving. So for Spock to get that emotional didn’t make sense. Further, what emotion that was created was completely destroyed when Spock did the “KAAAAHN!” yell. It was comical and completely out of place. I guess one could say it’s an homage to TWOK, but because we already knew of those events it just played like a “been there done that” sort of thing.

The other thing I did not care for was the appearance of Nimoy. Yes, fans in the theater got a kick out of that. And I sort of did too. But it felt wrong to include this guy. All they need to do is ask Spock prime everything! It felt like a HUGE cop out.

I still didn’t like how they played fast and loose with universal geography and they still seemed to have the ability to transport millions of light years… Something that didn’t even exist in TNG’s time. But at least those were consistent with the previous flick.

And one very slight nit pick… I guess in this timeline Scotty calls Kirk Jim instead of Captain. In the prime universe, Scotty almost never called him Jim.

I feared doing Kahn was a bad idea and I was right.

The positive? The movie was still kinda fun to watch. It’s great to see everyone back. The cast was still good. The visuals were still good. Slowly getting used to BUDgeneering. But overall, that ST:09 was much much better….

Have to say I was disappointed.

920. Bucky - May 20, 2013

boborci had post #911 in this thread. That is all I have to contribute right now because I must finish my own STID review and get about 50ish words outta it.

921. The Walking Phobia - May 20, 2013

915
“pegged as a fan-boy movie” I agree with what you wrote and I’m not sure why it would be considered a ‘fan-boy’ movie. One only has to look over at tumblr and see that the majority of those posting about this movie are girls/young women, and they’re posting that they will be repeat customers in seeing this movie. Now I know that some will say that’s because they’re BC fans, but does that matter?

I think that STID will do fine box-office wise. I’m glad to see it do well internationally, and I would rather see it have strong turnout over weeks than an opening weekend bonanza and quick drop-off (though I know nowadays it’s all about the almighty opening debut.)

Anyways, Bob Orci & Co. from myself (ST fan) and my sister (not a ST fan) thank you for another movie that allows this beloved franchise to breathe again onscreen. My sister gave you all high praise, when we came out of the movie she just uttered a breathless “that was brilliant and we’re going again.”

922. Unwanted - May 20, 2013

@904 The Augments in Enterprise were embryos that were kept in cold storage after the end of the Eugenics Wars, this is explicitly stated, as is their origin in direct genetic engineering, by Dr. Arik Soong, ancestor of Noonien Soong, who was imprisoned for illegal genetic engineering and stealing a number of the Eugenics Wars embryos, which he raised on a far off hidden planet. All of this information is specifically stated in the 3 part Enterprise story, all by itself this would retcon Space Seed, never mind the multiple episodes dealing with Augments on DS9, and never mind that “selective breeding” makes no sense, or that the technology level of the 20th century of Star Trek Earth was shown to be advanced beyond the real world even in TOS. How else could that other Captain Pike from 1968 have a son that commanded the first manned mission to Saturn before 1990? Why else would there be interplanetary sleeper ships like the DY-100 thru DY-500 class in use during the 1990s? These technologies do not simply appear, they come from earlier discoveries in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, which happened in the world of Trek and not in the real world.

Bored now, goodbye

923. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

For me, Spock watching Kirk die and not being able to do a thing about it, unlike Kirk who managed to save him, was the last straw among so many very heavy straws that Spock was bearing. He let loose, screaming Khan as he knew Khan was the one now responsible for Kirk’s death. In the shuttlecraft, in the conversation between himself, Kirk and Uhura, he realized that Kirk was indeed a friend (like Uhura), as in someone he could be open with and now he had lost this man. It is also possible that mindmelding with Pike upon Pike’s death may have sharpened his emotional state, giving him even less control over his emotions. Refer to what Sarek told him as a boy – that, in many ways, Vulcans can often experience even more powerful emotions than humans can… It does make sense if you think about it.

Nobody transported millions of light years. Transwarp beaming did exist in TNG’s time. It was developed by the prime universe Enterprise engineer Montgomery Scott in his later years. He had been working on the problem of how to achieve this capability for a while. Prime Spock gave the formula to this alternate universe younger Montgomery Scott. The formula was taken from Scotty and ended up in the wrong hands…

Scotty called Kirk “Jim” in the TOS episode “Mirror, Mirror”.

924. Buzz Cagney - May 20, 2013

Next time out there will be no David Marcus but Kirk’s dalliance with the cat women will bear fruit. I see many kittens on the horizon for Kirk. I can hear it now, Bones saying ‘damn it, Jim, i’m a Doctor not a veterinarian’.

You can use that one, Bob O.

925. Nemesis4909 - May 20, 2013

Hi Bob, I’ve pasted my questions/post from the other thread. If you could respond it’d be appreciated:

@boborci Thank you for visiting this site and dealing with people’s questions. If you wouldn’t mind, could you answer a couple of mine?

1) You said on this thread that you worked on the story without Khan in mind and thn integrated him later. Why? Why did this story need Khan? There’s power in a disgruntled Starfleet officer attacking the system. Would have been a great parallel where Kirk learns how to follow the rules in taking down someone who is the personification of disobedience

2) You also said that this film and Wrath of Khan are not the same film, I agree but the ending is almost the same (by ending I mean Kirk’s “sacrifice” to save the ship). If you watch the sequence in Wrath of Khan, the sequence in your film is nearly identical, apart from Kirk and Spock’s roles reversed. Also your version looked a lot more expensive…I’m of the opinion that special effects don’t denote quality (see the Transformers movies for clear examples). Also Kirk and Spock weren’t at the point in their friendship where that carries so much weight, in Wrath of Khan it was essentially the end of a profound friendship. I realise that this hasn’t yet been a question so my question is this. What was your reason for using that moment along with the KHAAAAAAAAAAAN! scream?

That’s the end of my questions but I have to say I felt a bit let down by the film, all it did was remind me of a film that I’d rather be watching, you did so well by creating this alternate reality full of limitless possibilities and then immediately rehashed an old story that didn’t need rehashing. I hope you’re not planning to do the Borg next film, that would be unfortunate.

There were other issues I had, transwarp beaming, distance between Earth and Qo’nos etc but that would be nerdy nitpicking.

In the interest of completeness, I’ll tell you what I liked. I really liked the idea of Kirk being reckless and punished for his recklessness (even though it didn’t play out as well as it could have). My favourite scene was when Spock explained why he chose not to feel, there was great weight to that scene and it was very Star Trek. I also liked Uhura appealing to Kirk to let her try to talk their way out of the situation with the Klingons, again, very Star Trek. Scotty quitting on moral grounds was great too. There was little gems throughout the film that could have been focussed on more.

I know this may seem like I’m complaining a lot Bob and maybe I am but I really do think you’re a talented writer and I know you can do better than this, I held this film to a high standard because I hold you to a high standard and you just didn’t meet that in my opinion. I hope you give more care and attention to “The Amazing Spider-Man 2″ as Spider-Man is another thing that’s near and dear to my heart.

I’m trying to break into screenwriting myself so I suppose my final question is, have you any advice on how to do that?

I would be honoured if you’d respond to this Bob, thanks in advance for your time.

Craig McKenzie

926. Chris Freeman - May 20, 2013

I really didn’t like STID because of: writing / producing / editing choices that are overly convoluted, value action over anything else, have little to no downtime, treat the 1960s / 1980s source material in a blunt and wink-wink way, treat in-universe time in a ridiculous manner, and have no consequences for the characters.

After the opening sequence on the planet there’s like 20 minutes that’s just sloppy and convoluted. Kirk loses the Enterprise, gets demoted, and gets it back. Sure this part shows that there may be real consequences for him being a cowboy, but the movie does not actually make him deal with any. We never see him on the E as first officer with Pike in command. It’s just talked about, he gets sad, then it goes away. It’s totally fake jeopardy that he doesn’t have to work through at all. And the audience sees through it the whole time. This thread could have been re-worked to be more efficient, weighty, and believable storytelling.

We spend 3-5 minutes watching Kirk and Khan fly through a debris field in space between two ships in what to me looks like an advertisement for level 5 of STID: The Video Game, yet we can’t have the Enterprise undertake any travel time between destinations? Having the ship take X days to get to Kronos would allow some much-needed time with the characters where they aren’t running, jumping, yelling, and shooting. I don’t know how these characters interact with each other when they aren’t in a high-intensity situation. I understand the strategy of placing the exposition and character moments in the action. Sometimes that works well in this movie (Spock and Uhura’s spat in the shuttle on Kronos), but there’s not just not enough to make the characters feel real.

Nimoy’s cameo was a little hackneyed, but I loved the last shot of that scene where we zoom in on Quinto and has asks “how?” Chilling, since we know Nimoy’s Spock died in that encounter. One of the few well-done character moments in the movie and the best callback. But I wish this scene happened in a different room between just these two characters! Plot-wise, is it advisable to inform the bridge crew that there is an alternate-time-line Spock out there? But more importantly, this movie needs more quiet, intimate moments and this could have been one of them.

Kirk’s death has no weight. Yes, I get that this is the moment where Spock realizes he needs Kirk and that they are BFFs. But there are other ways that realization could have been written that would have connected more with the audience. We as an audience know Kirk won’t die for real, and that diminishes how deeply we can feel Spock’s turning point in that scene. It seems like those behind the reboots are pulling more from the campy 1960s Trek than the more serious 1980s movies with how comic book the heroes and villains are and the action is. Spock’s death scene in TWOK that this one reverses was all of that campy larger-than-life action hero fantasy crashing into reality on top of Kirk as he had to watch his best friend die. There’s none of that weight or meaning here. In STID, Kirk’s death is just another campy comic-book sci-fi death. And that makes me not care about it or him.

That’s why I don’t like the movie: I have cared about these characters my entire life. I can deal with new actors and new sets, but in the hands of this writing / producing / directing team, I can’t care about what these characters are doing. They’re not bringing any weight or depth or life to them.

927. boborci - May 20, 2013

925. i will answer these questions in a week ir so. don’t mean to be evasive, but tge issues are trickyband controversial…

928. boborci - May 20, 2013

920. bucky

an odd coincidence?

929. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@922. Unwanted,
“All of this information is specifically stated in the 3 part Enterprise story, all by itself this would retcon Space Seed, never mind the multiple episodes dealing with Augments on DS9, and never mind that “selective breeding” makes no sense, or that the technology level of the 20th century of Star Trek Earth was shown to be advanced beyond the real world even in TOS”

Sorry this bores you. But thanks for the explanation. You really need not have gone into such detail, as I’m generally familiar. What I was looking for were specific references to Khan and the “supermen” that actually ruled the Earth in the 1990s. Nevertheless, I can look it up for myself.

I do have to wonder about those embryos though. The embryos found at the end of the Eugenics wars and stored at Cold Station 12 were most likely produced during the 1990s. So I have no problem with the technology available at the time. That does not mean Khan and his kind that seized power in 1990 were not as Kirk and Spock said, the product of artificial selection in the 1950s. Presumably as they matured, the program continued and the scientists adapted to more sophisticated technologies resulting in the confiscated embryos.

As I view Star Trek, everything that existed in the real world contemporary to the series being produced was the same. I don’t recall any technology being depicted from pre-1969 in the series that was more advanced than it should have been in the real world. Therefore anything leading up to Khan’s birth would be the same. Anything after could be anything they wanted it to be. In that sense, it’s like the Trek universe split from ours upon the cancellation of the series and everything after existed in an alternate universe, thus explaining Capt. Christopher’s son’s mission to Saturn, and the sleeper ships … In 1968 had NASA continued to get the same level of funding it had up to that point, it’s possible those things might have happened in our universe too, which is the whole reason Star Trek optimistically portrayed such things less than 30 years into the future.

The great thing about Star Trek canon is that so much of it can be interpreted in so many ways, don’t you think? However, one possible explanation for Khan and his like is that they were genetically enhanced clones which were grown to maturity in a matter of a few months or years, thus negating the need to be born and mature naturally, which satisfies my need to have technology before 1969 in the Trek universe remain consistent with our own history, and your need to see Khan artificially engineered. I’m still not convinced “selective breeding” is impossible here (albeit unlikely), but I can also agree Kirk and Spock misspoke. And I also have to attribute the 300 year figure in STID to a very generous rounding error to make this all work as well.

Nevertheless, however you want to believe Khan was created, or engineered to appear, the fact remains, McGivers and Scotty both saw specific physical variations in the occupants of the Botany Bay which are inconsistent with what I understand you have been proposing to retcon Harrison’s appearance.

930. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

#926 – I have read other comments where people have said that they and others burst into tears when Kirk died…

931. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@919 ML31,
“and they still seemed to have the ability to transport millions of light years”

I seem to recall after ST09 when the fans were upset about the transwarp beaming Scotty and Kirk did there, that Bob Orci made a definite point that Spock did not give Scotty the formula he used to beam them to the Enterprise, which is why this was one time only and they would not be using it in future movies. So it must be assumed Harrison came up with it all on his own, having a genetically superior intellect and all …

I also recall Orci diffusing calls to use the red matter to send Prime Spock back to his universe, or to “fix” the new timeline, by saying there was none left. Well now the IDW comics also show that a small amount of it (more than was needed to destroy Vulcan and the Earth) is now in the hands of the Romulans. Since the comics are canon until they’re not, I guess we have another interesting surprise coming down the pike in the future … Or not.

932. Spock Jr. - May 20, 2013

I like the idea of a million-and-one new little Star Trek fans, and parents heading out to get The Original Series for them! More Trek fans – the more the better! 8D At the cinema, I heard a dad say, ‘… because he was Spock in the original version,’ and his kid was all wide-eyed wonder! So cool…

933. Anonymous Poster - May 20, 2013

Did anyone else think that Benedict Cumberbatch’s appearance and facial expressions looked completely different in the movie than in every piece of promo material that was released prior to the opening? I sure thought that was cool.

934. Sean - May 20, 2013

Thought STID was a 10 outta 10 until the last 10% of the movie…..I thought it was so dead on right in being confident in being a stand alone trek that had a perfect tone that was fresh but familiar but when they started ripping off wrath of Kahn I got upset cause the first 90% of the movie was so smart & unique I wish it continued being separate from the old trek & not rest on the laurels of the past..I guess I’m a rare Trekkie where I want this JJ trek to be as unique & different as possible & until Kirk went into the warp core I thought JJ & Co. we’re making something groundbreaking but starting with spock’s call to himself and Kirk doing what Spock did In ST 2 I though was a cop out….but as soon as Spock beamed down to SF we were back on track to what the movie neede to be….redo that 5 minutes & the movie is a 11 or 12 outta 10. I knew cumberbstxh would be Kahn & was do happy it happened a 1/3rd to half way thru & not at the end like Nolan did in TDKR

To the next director if JJ doesn’t return be bold don’t be so precious about the trek of the past I have Netflix I don’t need to see rehashes…take a look at Ron moore’s BSG & be your own thing….I loved the 9/11 allegory…it was a sentiment I think gene would be proud of…& robocop was a great Cheney type villain….right now I have this as a 9/10 but repeat viewing might edge it up to 9,5…..here’s hoping this isn’t a trilogy but a longer running series the bittersweet nature of the JJ trek is 1 hr in I’m ready for a whole season of new trek each wk & hate the thought of having to wait 3-4 more yrs.

935. Starfleet Jim - May 20, 2013

I’m going to get in trouble for this one and I don’t care. I agree that TWOK is among the best Star Trek feature films. Can someone please tell me what contemporary issue it addresses? Mid-age crises? Now don’t get me wrong, the messages of friendship, sacrifice, needs of the many, etc. are all quite powerful. But, everyone is saying that the best Trek and Sci Fi come forth when it actually addresses current events. What is the TWOK actually addressing? I was watching Star Trek when most of your fathers were in diapers and personally think this is one of the best Star Trek movies of all time. There are so many nods to all the various series and other movies that you can’t count them all. Is this a perfect movie? Show me a perfect movie! @BobOrci, thank you for creating a cohesive, meaningful story and for caring enough to actually read and reply to the (sometimes rude and crude) feedback on this page. It’s undeserved and there are those among us that greatly appreciate your friendship. LLAP to all.

936. Mark Lynch - May 20, 2013

Not going to go into a long review, as I don’t have the time at the moment.

I had had no spoilers going into the movie. Which is rare and good these days!

When JH was in the brig and we had the big reveal, I audibly sighed with disappointment. However I got over it fairly quickly and got back into the film. It was suitably different to Space Seed so that I could enjoy it as an “on its own piece”

When we got to towards the end, last 5-10 minutes, I became very frustrated with what the writers did. Namely, ripping off TWOK but with role reversal.

Maybe I will change my mind with my next cinema viewing in the next few days.

937. Jesustrek - May 20, 2013

@919 ‘I still didn’t like how they played fast and loose with universal geography and they still seemed to have the ability to transport millions of light years… Something that didn’t even exist in TNG’s time. But at least those were consistent with the previous flick.’

you’re wrong … in Deep Space Nine mentions the federation and teleportation between parallel universes (prototype not remember) is a resource of several episodes of the series, if the teleportation warp is a technology that evolved in that the future of TNG.

I’m Trekkie, and i’m informed :)

938. The River Temoc - May 20, 2013

@828 – I didn’t realize Yul Brynner was Buryat. I had always thought he was a Russian-American. Live and learn! (I definitely know where Vladivostok is, though – I actually saw STID in Moscow, where I’m working on a project at the moment. I picked the one theater showing it in English with Russian subtitles. It was interesting to see the Russian audience was pretty familiar with TOS, since to my knowledge it’s never been shown here.

939. Exverlobter - May 20, 2013

Does anybody know why Chris Hemsworth was in the end credits

940. Nemesis4909 - May 20, 2013

@Boborci

Thanks for addressing that you’ve seen my questions. I look forward to your response. Will it be on this thread? I’ll ensure I check back if so

941. Nemesis4909 - May 20, 2013

@Boborci

Thanks for addressing that you’ve seen my questions. I look forward to your response. Will it be on this thread? I’ll ensure I check back if so

942. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 20, 2013

@939. Exverlobter

I’m pretty sure that’s because you hear his voice – and others – (from Star Trek 2009 as well as STID) in the ‘blackness’ scene as Kirk is regaining consciousness. It’s my understanding that those actors we hear in this scene would have been credited, even if they weren’t physically in the movie.

943. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#939 – Because his voice is in the movie, toward the end, along with Kirk’s mom and others from the first film. That sampled dialogue earned them credit listings.

944. Disinvited - May 20, 2013

# 915. Curious Cadet – May 20, 2013

” Paramount treated the franchise as an afterthought? This has to be one of the most massively marketed movies I have ever seen. What else could they have done to place more importance on it?” – Curious Cadet

Hmmm…you, yourself, seem to acknowledge that there’s some confirmation Paramount greedily prioritized their IM3 piece of the action easy money ahead of STID, at least domestically. I’d take that as some return to the big P’s classically taking Trek for granted and only giving it an afterthought after what it regards as bigger deals.

945. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#935 — TWOK absolutely addressed a still-vital contemporary issue! Look at two plot threads–the Genesis device and Kirk/Khan. With Genesis, we see the debate about ethics in science: Just because we CAN do something doesn’t mean we SHOULD. In the 80s (and now) that was relevant with everything from computers to burgeoning genetic sciences to continuing nuclear development…etc.

They knew Genesis could fall into the wrong hands and become a weapon, but they took that risk anyway and had to face the consequences. HUGE contemporary social issue–the ethical responsibility of scientists.

With Kirk and Khan, we see a similar issue of responsibility, only this one is about taking responsibility for our past actions. (Which the David storyline also supports.) Kirk put Khan and his people on Ceti Alpha V and then FORGOT them for 15 or 20 years. (There’s still debate about the amount of time that passed.)

Much like America’s involvement in Southeast Asia in the 1960s, which had long-lasting and unpredicted consequences, Kirk’s actions in “Space Seed” had unforeseen consequences. Kirk took action, but he never took responsibility for that action. Not only did Khan and his people deserve to be checked on for their own good, but they should’ve been checked to make sure the rest of the galaxy was still safe from them.

So, ethical responsibility for our actions, as shown in three plots (Genesis, Kirk/Khan, Kirk/David) and as demonstrated with Spock’s death, is the core issue of TWOK. It was contemporary back then, with science and world affairs providing plenty of real-world situations where scientific ethics are challenged. It’s still contemporary, and the themes of old age and loss are still contemporary.

946. Exverlobter - May 20, 2013

Well, lets hope they got also an extra paycheck then.

947. Exverlobter - May 20, 2013

Some people here argue that the navigator is deltan, because of the bald head. Memory Alpha lists her as human.
Does Boborci know it?

948. Disinvited - May 20, 2013

#935. Starfleet Jim – May 20, 2013

Let’s see if I can get anywhere close just relying on my graying memory cells. When TWOK’s script was being written we were rationing gas based on odd and even plate numbers and the economy was tanking because of OPEC cutting oil production to keep their oil prices up, as well making political responses to policies they did not like. The idea was being floated that the economy would improve if the workforce could just open up jobs for the younger and more capable college grads by forcing the still productive older segment out to their rockers.

I’d say that, yes, TWOK addressed the contemporary issues of its time.

949. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#935 – P.S. Also, there’s a difference between “current events” and “contemporary issues,” although you used them interchangeably. A contemporary issue is something like “the danger of trading freedom for security.” A current event is something like “government taps AP journalists to find a leak.”

I hope you can see the distinction between those two things, because it’s a huge difference. One is an issue that retains relevance no matter what events transpire, and one is a specific event that will lose relevance over time.

Trek is best when addressing contemporary issues but usually worst when addressing current events.

950. Al - May 20, 2013

Did anyone else find Spock’s ears distracting? As if the make up piece went further down on ZC’s face than in 2009? As if hiding his earlobes. Every time I saw him it just looked odd to me.

See here http://thewordywench.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/zachary-quinto-spock-star-trek-into-darkness.png

951. Into the darkness of a movie theatre with an bag of popcorn - May 20, 2013

Mr. Orci:

I enjoyed Star Trek Into Darkness, is there anyway we could see the Prime Universe and Alternate Universe Merge in the next one? Some sort of Time Travel movie like in the new Xmen movie? Its the 50 anniversary i think that would be awesome. What about the Guardian of Forever it shouldnt have been effect by Nero, could it be used in the sequel to tie all the previous movies and shows together?

Thank you for reading this if you do.

952. Disinvited - May 20, 2013

#886. Mcflycat – May 19, 2013

My mistake, I thought the whole issue of Hollywood whitewashing was of concern to you. Good to know you are okay with it as long has it doesn’t appear in interesting productions.

953. Gold_Coast_Rob - May 20, 2013

OK, OK, I’ve gotta admit I was a sceptic. I went into the movie not overly impressed by the 2009 movie and very protective of the TOS era cast and crew. I came out totally converted and gagging for nu-Trek movie #3. The movie grabbed me from the get-go and I was entertained for the entire two hours. I even (almost) cried when Kirk died and cheered when the Enterprise re-emerged from the clouds. Stuff all the nitpickers, who gives a damn that some things may not make sense! I was entertained for the entire time, got my money’s worth and, for the first time in a long while, will go to see it in the cinema for a second time.

Congratulations to boborci and the rest of the crew, a job *extremely* well done. Roll on 2016!

954. J - May 20, 2013

@881 Phobos: only Courage’s theme and Giacchino’s main theme were reused – which I’m happy about because they were arranged differently. Too bad only the latter is on the OST. The music used between said themes was “London Calling” and “Ode to Harrison” (IIRC).

955. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 20, 2013

@950. Al – May 20, 2013
“Did anyone else find Spock’s ears distracting? As if the make up piece went further down on ZC’s face than in 2009? As if hiding his earlobes. Every time I saw him it just looked odd to me. ”

Zachary Quinto doesn’t have any ear lobes. He needs to use full length prosthetic ears to provide earlobes, unlike Leonard Nimoy who only needed ‘tips’. I’ve looked at a few ST09 photos and STID photos, and I think the ear shape for Quinto Spock looks consistent across the two movies.

956. Check the Circuit - May 20, 2013

Loved the movie. Saw it 3 times. But some things left me scratching my head or rolling my eyes. Many have been addressed in other posts. But there’s one that I don’t think has been mentioned.

Maybe I’m a bad parent, but it seems unrealistic to me that anyone would trade the lives of dozens of others to save the life of their child. I have two kids that I do believe I’d take a bullet for…but I can’t imagine I’d willing cause harm to innocent people to save/protect them. Maybe some would. Everyone is different. But one of Starfleet’s best and brightest?! You know, the whole Kobiashi Maru and the “needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few” bit. So the whole plot gets rolling because Harrison finds the one man selfish enough to agree to kill his comrades in Section 31 for some magic blood? Sorry…having a hard time buying that.

957. PaulB - May 20, 2013

According to Kurtzman, “The whole point of the alternate timeline was so that an audience can watch the movie and not know where it was headed. The jeopardy could always be real.”

Really? Then please explain STID, which is painfully predictable and where there is no real jeopardy.

These writers SAY one thing and then WRITE another. Disappointing.

958. boborci - May 20, 2013

957, no jeopardy!? everyone almost dies!

959. boborci - May 20, 2013

paulb
r u drunk?

960. boborci - May 20, 2013

956.check the circuit

what causes people to be suicide bombers?

961. Disinvited - May 20, 2013

Kurtzman and Orci have even more to say:

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/05/16/inside-star-trek-into-darkness/

962. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 20, 2013

@956. Check the Circuit

Hmmm – you have a point, but I find myself conflicted about it. Consider that this guy worked for Section 31. Their world view is necessarily different from regular Starfleet, or they couldn’t work in Section 31 in the first place. How does that affect his personal ethics ‘regarding lines that must not be crossed’?

Even if he were a regular joe, who knows how he would react when it comes to the crunch? You think you’d take a bullet to save your kids. You probably would – I think most parents instinctively would. Would you deliberately kill youself to save them? What would you do if someone held a gun to their heads in order to induce you to place a bomb? There are parts of our world now where that question is real and not hypothetical. Would it make any difference to you if the potential victims were ‘combatants’ or civilians?

These are the situations where we pray to god that we will do the right thing if it happens, and pray even harder that we never have to find out.

963. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#958 – Kirk dies, but everyone knows he’ll come back. Enterprise plummets, but everyone knows it’s not crashing.

Yeah, no jeopardy. Add in Khan’s magic blood, mix in the general predictability, and at the very best you have FAKE jeopardy, which is the same as none.

When the audience can see through every threat of danger, there is no real jeopardy.

964. LogicalLeopard - May 20, 2013

957. PaulB – May 20, 2013

Keep in mind I could be reallllllyy stupid, but you know, the movie had enough twists and jeopardy for me. I think the main problem that I enjoyed the movie less than I thought I would is because for months I pondered, analyzed, and semi-spoiled myself regarding the movie.

But that also helped quite a few things catch me by suprise. When Scotty, Kirk, and Chekov are at the reactor, after I think “Oh my goodness, they’re actually going to do it!” I had previously thought that somehow Khan was going to beam over and sacrifice himself for the lives of his fellow augments, or something of that nature that we wouldn’t see coming. So, when the scene actually came, I was thinking, “Lets see, Chekov is the obvious red herring so its gotta be Kirk or Scotty, but it can’t be Kirk, because he’s Captain, and wait, Scotty was looking really sad about something, so it has to be Kirk, no wait, Chekov!” Then it was over, and I thought…..”Hey….wait a minute, there’s no Genesis Planet…..I can’t think of a way out of this. Next Movie? No, they wouldn’t do that twice….is he dead? If I hear bagpipes, I won’t be any good.” I had completely forgotten about the tribble.

965. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

944. Disinvited,
“you, yourself, seem to acknowledge that there’s some confirmation Paramount greedily prioritized their IM3 piece of the action easy money ahead of STID, at least domestically”

I don’t believe I ever acknowledged that. That’s your contention.

My position is that Paramount doesn’t have a single thing to do with the marketing and distribution of IM3 in theaters — Disney bought them out lock, stock and barrel.

966. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#959 Excuse me?! Mr. Orci, I don’t appreciate the “are you drunk” comment. My comments throughout these threads have been balanced between criticism and compliments–look at my comments about how you handled Spock and the Prime Directive, for instance.

But you openly insult me.

If you can’t be humble about your writing, at least try to be minimally polite to those who’ve paid for your Hollywood lifestyle by seeing these films.

967. Starfleet Jim - May 20, 2013

945, 948, 949

Thank you both for responding. I appreciate both your perspectives.

Paul B. — I like where you are going with the responsibility theme. I do feel the science-ethics aspect is a bit of a stretch and is better explored in ST3.

However, concerning Kirk’s responsibility towards Kahn (along with the galaxy) and David — do you feel Kirk acknowledges his responsibility for either outcome — a madman seeking revenge for abandonment or an estranged son? How so? (He certainly is made to pay for them.)

Personally, I think Starfleet and Carol Marcus bear a great responsibility. Starfleet knew about Kahn and didn’t follow-up either; Carol asked Kirk to stay away. Is Kirk owning up to these responsibilities essential for the social commentary to be fully expressed?

It seems to me that STID has more of a moral to the story and that’s why I prefer it.

968. LogicalLeopard - May 20, 2013

962. ObsessiveStarTrekFan – May 20, 2013

************************************

Good points from you and Check the Circuit. The more I think about it, the more I believe that the pain and suffering his child went through probably did a number on his brain. And working in Section 31, they were all probably involved in some dirty things. He could have just rationalized out of his pain, “All of these people, including myself, deserve to die for what we’ve done. And others will step in and replace us. But my daughter doesn’t deserve to die.”

Then again, we don’t really know if he knew that he was going to blow up everyone. Maybe Khan told him the explosion would only consume him, his terminal, and perhaps some nearby equipment. Maybe he told him it was going to emit a nerve gas that would knock everyone out so he could come in and steal information. Maybe he said, “As soon as you log onto your terminal, drop your ring into your glass. That will be the signal for another agent to begin yadda, yadda, yadda.”

969. Check the Circuit - May 20, 2013

@960 boborci

Religious fanaticism. A lifetime of hate propaganda/brainwashing. False promises about the afterlife. (I think.)

But a Starfleet officer being coerced into the attack because he believes his daughter’s life is more important than the dozens around him? That’s what I struggle with.

970. James - May 20, 2013

Just saw the film over the weekend in the London Imax.

Blown away.

First 3/4 of the film were perfect for me. The resolution to Kirks death was a little obvious though and the last 1/4 really just went through the motions.

Thankyou to those involved in making this movie. Thankyou mr Orci. Was really pleased that Trek was relevant again.

Now planning to see it again in 2D :)

971. Disinvited - May 20, 2013

#964. Curious Cadet – May 20, 2013

What did you mean then when you replied to 366 with?:

” Interesting, well there’s your explanation about why Disney paid Paramount handsomely to buy them out of their contract with Marvel, if there ever was any doubt.” – Curious Cadet

972. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#966 I don’t see how the science-ethics stuff is a stretch for TWOK. Carol and David openly debate the ethics; Kirk, Spock, and McCoy openly debate the ethics. It’s not hidden or subtle at all.

It’s also a logical progression from the genetic manipulation that created Khan in the first place. With Khan, it was about recreating humans on a genetic level; with Genesis, it was recreating a living planet on a similar level.

You’re right that Kirk is forced to pay for his past actions more than he accepts responsibility, but that’s often how life works: people only learn to take responsibility because they’ve had to pay the consequences.

I agree that STID has a moral, and I am not in the crowd who claim it is JUST pointless action. I merely replied to you about your TWOK claim–that it dealt with no contemporary issues.

BTW, nuKirk doesn’t just step up to be responsible either: he has to face the certain death of his entire crew, only to be saved by the actions of others (Scotty). This Kirk has to be forced into responsibility just like TWOK Kirk.

973. LogicalLeopard - May 20, 2013

963. PaulB – May 20, 2013
#958 – Kirk dies, but everyone knows he’ll come back. Enterprise plummets, but everyone knows it’s not crashing.

Yeah, no jeopardy. Add in Khan’s magic blood, mix in the general predictability, and at the very best you have FAKE jeopardy, which is the same as none.

********************************

Well, with those examples, you could say there’s almost NEVER any jeopardy in Star Trek. As long as you know that the actors have contracts, you’re pretty sure they’ll all be back. The only exception to that is Spock in TWOK, who was on record that he did NOT want to come back, and perhaps Kirk in Generations, because that was going to be the last movie featuring the old generation. Data fell in the same category, because no one knew if the profits would ever justify another TNG movie, but they kind of wrote that one off by introducing B4 in the beginning of the movie, so Spiner could come back any time he wanted to. And as far as the Enterprise, after the moving scene from STIII, everyone knows they’ll build another.

974. porthoses bitch - May 20, 2013

Boborcii….Did you conciously put Chekov in Engineering to back up Walter Koeings cover story as to how Khan knew Chekov ( when Chekov wasnt around for Space Seed In TWOK ). WKs story has always been how Chekov was working on the lower Decks followed by a joke about hogging the restroom. Or is it all just a happy concidence ?

975. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@48. boborci,
“39. EnsignJack Other are frozen, time is of the essence, Bones said they could die if he wakes them up without proper tech/sequencing, and he KNOWS what K’s blood can do. He knows nothing about the others.”

Wait, I’ve been meaning to ask this and forgetting, doesn’t McCoy wake one of them up to free up his pod to freeze Kirk? And then keep him sedated in sickbay? Or am I misremembering?

976. NoleTrek - May 20, 2013

Some of you people are just ridiculous. Stop looking so deeply into every little detail. TOS and the Next Generation had so many plot holes and mistakes in it, it’s not even funny! Get out of your parents’ basements and appreciate the fact that Star Trek is alive and well again. The fact that the writers put this cool twist on the Khan story 26 years before the Wrath of Khan was fantastic. Y’all bitch about how they don’t give enough of a nod to the fans, then whn they do, y’all still bitch. Shut up and appreciate that Star Trek is back.

977. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#972 The whole point of the rebooted Trek universe was to make it possible for anything to happen, including the deaths of major characters. With that as a stated part of the purpose, it’s reasonable to expect that some of the characters might die in nuTrek–really die, not “Trek death.”

Instead, we get more Trek death–instantly un-doable.

When the audience sees through the jeopardy even BEFORE it happens, it’s not jeopardy. A lady at my viewing whispered to her friend after the little girl was saved in the beginning, “They’ll save someone major with that later.” It was painfully obvious.

THAT is why THIS film has phony-beyond-phony jeopardy. Not only do we expect these people to survive because they have contracts, as you said, but we KNOW they’ll survive because the filmmakers shoved their cure in our faces in act one.

978. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@970 disinvited,

This is what Allenburch wrote @366:
“our favorite singleplex theater…was somehow forced by Disney to play Iron Man III instead of Into Darkness. (The manager was upset at the corporate muscle-flexing going on by Disney and preferred to show Star Trek.)”

Disney forced the theater to play IM3 instead of Star Trek on Trek’ opening weekend, not Paramount.

The conclusion I draw is that Disney bought out the distribution rights for Iron Man specifically so they could make such demands. While I believe Paramount would do many things for a buck, had they had ANY control over distribution as their vestigial logo implies on the film, they would not have allowed this to happen. Star Trek is a far more important franchise to them going forward, now that they’ve released Iron Man.

979. Barney Fife - May 20, 2013

We finally saw STID on IMAX yesterday in an almost full theater. My college-aged son and daughter & wifed LOVED it and they are not Trekkies like me. I’ve been watching Trek since 1966 and this movie has finally pushed Wrath of Khan to 2nd place (ST09 is 3rd). I walked out of the theater thinking Trek is finally mainstream! The way I look at it, if we ever want any new Trek movies or TV shows in the future then there has to be a balance between mainstream and fan-boy otherwise the studios won’t finance it. I love the older movies but I can’t see the general public going to the theater to see movies like that. Times have changed and I fully endorse Trek 2.0!

@boborci:
I’d love to see K/O and/or Bad Robot take a crack on a live-action ST TV series. Do you think it has a future on TV or shall we assume it’s strictly a movie franchise now?

980. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#972 – “Personally, I think Starfleet and Carol Marcus bear a great responsibility. Starfleet knew about Kahn and didn’t follow-up either; Carol asked Kirk to stay away. Is Kirk owning up to these responsibilities essential for the social commentary to be fully expressed?”

We’re not sure Starfleet knew about Khan. Did Kirk file an honest report? After all, Terrell took the Reliant to that system without knowing the danger, which suggests that Kirk’s report was falsified, classified, or never filed.

And yes, Carol is responsible. That’s part of the film’s point: not just “military types are dangerous” or something like that, but that pure-science types also can be dangerous even if they’re ethical.

And no, I don’t think Kirk’s owing up to responsibilities is needed for the commentary to work. Exploring the issue of responsibility doesn’t require any pat answers or “moral of the story” moments. TWOK shows the complexity of the debate rather than simply trying to answer an easy question or two.

981. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

I brought my friend who loves film and likes star trek, he had zero info about the movie going in.

I watched him as important info is revealed, he thought the film was amazing and was geniunely wowed.

He had zero complaints and he is going to bring his daughters 14 and 19 and his other friend for his second viewing.

982. LogicalLeopard - May 20, 2013

976. PaulB – May 20, 2013

THAT is why THIS film has phony-beyond-phony jeopardy. Not only do we expect these people to survive because they have contracts, as you said, but we KNOW they’ll survive because the filmmakers shoved their cure in our faces in act one.

***********************

I get your point and understand why you feel that way. It was a little different for me. I was so caught up in the death scene that I totally forgot about “magic Khan blood.” But I think we should cancel out expecting major characters (with contracts) to die. Even if it comes straight out of left field, it’s not going to work, because we’ll know. I think though when you settle along for the ride of a movie, some things that are painfully obvious can catch you by suprise. Or, you can “root against” them happening. As soon as Pike said, “They’re putting me back in command of the Enterprise, and I talked them into making you my first officer,” I knew Pike was a dead man. However, as he was crawling across the floor, I was still rooting on him to live, and held out hope he would. That’s just the power of a likeable character. Even Kirk made me a little misty-eyed, when I considered the arc of the character. He was kind of going through various stages of uselesness, then he did the one thing he knew he could do – sacrifice himself. And it sucked. Because he was dying. And he was scared of dying. I had no time to think of magic tribbles when I was thinking about how lonely must be for him to cross over into the “final frontier” of death.

I’m going to watch it again with my wife (Yes, I told her from jumpstreet that I wasn’t going to see the movie with her, because she’d probably make me late *L* And no, I haven’t been served with divorce papers yet) who is a good blank slate when it comes to Trek, and I’ll see how much she sees coming.

983. Disinvited - May 20, 2013

#977. Curious Cadet – May 20, 2013

Disney would have had more money to throw its weight around if it gave Paramount less not more. It appeared as if you were agreeing Disney bought Paramount’s theater slot for STID.

As it stands, I don’t see what you think Disney “gained” by giving Paramount more that made its muscling stronger?

Putting aside whether Paramount is actively marketing IM3, you do acknowledge Paramount makes more money the more money IM3 makes and any action Paramount makes that allows IM3 to take in more dough increases the dough in the big P’s pockets?

984. dmduncan - May 20, 2013

895, 897

Whoah whoah whoah.

How do you engineer the race out of someone? We humans ARE a bundle of racial features. Those features are what we ARE. You can’t erase them without making us either nonexistent or a different species, and BCs Khan is CLEARLY not a different species. He’s British and he has the look of one. Like a long Hobbit.

It’s not as if you get rid of a person’s racial features they come out looking like BC or a “white” person.

And remember, while Bob is on the SC and represents the production, he was a producer, not THE director. JJ Abrams was the leader of the production and the choice of BC to play Khan ultimately falls on him.

Given that he was so concerned about how accepted Cho (Korean) would be in the role of Sulu (Japanese), he won’t be able to plead ignorance of the principle involved here. He understood the principle and chose to ignore it, much like his pledge of loyalty to Star Trek which he also abandoned.

JJ may be a good guy, but he’s also a bit like young James Kirk. He needs to grow up a little bit and give a little more thought—and weight— to what the right decision is in those moments when his excited impulses threaten to overwhelm his common sense.

If the answer is that he was running out of time and had to make a choice, the question returned becomes why didn’t the casting for that iconic character begin much earlier? This is the story they had wanted to do since 2009. It’s hard to make a case that he had no time.

And if he did not, then there seems to be validity to the argument that JJ took on too many projects at once, and that this ultimately hurt Star Trek.

985. Starfleet Jim - May 20, 2013

@978 Barney Fife
Glad to see I’m not the only one. There is a subset of TOS fans from the sixties and seventies that now consider STID their favorite ST movie, even over TWOK. Fascinating.

@971 PaulB
McCoy disapproves of it, but please show me where there is any ethical debate re Genesis between Carol and David or Kirk/Spock/McCoy. Granted, it is a subtext (for those who really think about it) of the ethical consideration. It does not seem to be a predominant theme of TWOK, but I’m open to enlightenment. Thanks!

@BobOrci
“Man plans but God laughs!” Love it!!

986. Kevin Browning - May 20, 2013

This is my last thread.

The movie was awesome. I am looking forward to the next film hopefully in 2016.

Thank you orci and team for a great ride. I watched it twice and probably will watch it twice more.

987. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

Btw bob I noticed on the theatre screen showing most of the avs seats booked but when the movie started the theatre was not sold out as displayed by the computer screen when we purchased ticketd for my second viewing.

I am thinking someone is blocking sales to star trek into darkness or half the theatre decided not to show up which I think is wierd. I just wanted to give you a heads up. This happened at Yorkdale Mall in toronto, ont.

988. BeyondtheTech - May 20, 2013

GATT seems to be an interesting character and should have gotten more screen time, or at least an explanation. So many cool things in this movie are just taken for granted, but I guess that’s what happens when you cram so many things into a two-hour timeframe.

989. Starfleet Jim - May 20, 2013

@979. PaulB

It’s also a stretch to say…
“We’re not sure Starfleet knew about Khan. Did Kirk file an honest report? After all, Terrell took the Reliant to that system without knowing the danger, which suggests that Kirk’s report was falsified, classified, or never filed.”

…because the official Star Fleet log says…
“Captain’s log, stardate 3143.3. Control of the Enterprise has been regained. I wish my next decisions were no more difficult. Khan and his people, what a waste to put them in a reorientation center… and what do I do about McGivers?”
i.e., Starfleet HAD to know.

Plus… Terrel thought he was on Ceti Alpha VI. Remember?

990. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#984 Are you serious? Kirk shows the Genesis video to McCoy and Spock, who proceed to debate the ethics of Genesis. McCoy disapproves, and they debate it. It’s not a TNG-style debate, with 8 people talking around a table for 20 minutes, if that’s what you’re looking for as a debate.

David and Carol openly talk about the danger of Genesis being “perverted into a dreadful weapon.” That’s part of the debate. Again, not talking-heads-around-a-table debate but actually how real people discuss things–pointing out the dangers, considering the risks, weighing the benefits, and saying so openly.

That’s not even close to subtext. It’s in-your-face text. These are big scenes between these characters, not throwaway moments.

991. NoleTrek - May 20, 2013

@985…agreed…thanks to Orci and the entire team for creating a great story and keeping Trek alive. Hopefully the momentum will contiue into the next movie, and we’ll eventually see another series.

I still think…having a series with Enterprise B in the new timeline with David Kirk/Marcus as captain would be a hell of a series Idea. New timeline, new path for David. We don’t know a lot from the Enterprise B era. This would make a lot of Trek fans happy and bring in the new fans that seem to love Star Trek now.

992. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#988 As I said, that log entry might have been classified. This is an OLD debate, since TWOK first came out, and it’s never been resolved. Terrell and Chekov don’t have any clue about what they’re getting into, but don’t you think they’d check as standard procedure to see if other ships had visited the system?

Terrell’s lack of knowledge about Ceti Alpha and about Khan suggest that Kirk’s log entry was either classified or later deleted–or that Terrell, Chekov, and the entire Reliant crew are too stupid to do the most basic research possible.

Now, if Kirk’s report was classified, that places some of the blame with Khan. But we don’t know what happened, only that Terrell never saw that information. I guess we disagree about what the most logical implications of that would be.

993. PaulB - May 20, 2013

#988 As for Terrell thinking it’s Ceti Alpha VI: It’s absurd to think they wouldn’t check out the whole system going in. “Now entering Ceti Alpha system.” “Chekov, what does the computer have on this system?” “Keptin, this system has..[reads off details]. Vait a minute–where is Ceti Alpha VI? There’s supposed to be another planet here, Keptin, but it’s not there now.” “Hmm…what else do have have on the system?” “Oh, yeah, keptin, here’s this bit about Khan….”

If they entered Ceti Alpha without even checking basic computer records, they were idiots. I don’t think that’s the best assumption to make.

994. PaulB - May 20, 2013

(um…#991 should say “some of the blame with Starfleet” not “with Khan.” Shutting up for now…too many posts from me this morning already.)

995. jeffman1701 - May 20, 2013

Outstanding Movie. It is definitely in my all time top 5 movies. I want to see it again and again and again. I love JJ’s trek and I am a Trek fan of over 30 years. I can’t wait to see what he does with Star Wars and I am already counting the days until the third Trek movie. The franchise is in great hands. Would love to see some new tv series. Hope that happens.

996. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@982. Disinvited,
“As it stands, I don’t see what you think Disney “gained” by giving Paramount more that made its muscling stronger?”

What are you talking about? Disney CONTROLS IM3 marketing and distribution. They have to spend considerably MORE to do both of these things than if they just sat back and let Paramount do it. They also get to keep the lions share of the distribution income which Paramount otherwise would have pocketed. Giving Paramount even half of it back means Disney earns half of the distribution profits they would otherwise not have seen a penny of, all of which they get to deduct from Marvel’s gross profits. And considering how much the previous films earned, whatever they end up paying Paramount will be minor in comparison to the gross take.

———————
“you do acknowledge Paramount makes more money the more money IM3 makes”

From what I’ve read yes, that seems accurate. Disney paid them a “walk-away” fee, but considering the earning potential of IM3, Paramount gets a “bonus” if IM3 earns beyond a certain expected threshold. It does NOT mean that Paramount would be willing to throw their own child under the train to get a little extra in the short term on a franchise they gave up.

997. Commodore Adams - May 20, 2013

Those of you who voted best or worst movie are both nuts. Star Trek 5 is still the worst movie by far. There is no way STID is worse than Star Trek 5. Best movie still goes to Undiscovered Country or Wrath of Khan depending. For me its undiscovered country, no other star trek movie has such a rich story as undiscovered country, its a great conspiracy movie its succeeds where STID conspiracy story fails and Wrath of Khan same old same old vengeance story fails. Ive only seen STID once, ill have to see it 1-2 more times before I can formulate a solid opinion and honest review.

998. Kraten - May 20, 2013

@Boborci
** Reposted from Previous Thread**
As one who dreaded Khan being in this film and so wanted something totally original. My hat is off to you sir, and you fantastic team.

No it is not My Org Trek, But this is not 1966 or the 80′s

I can’t tell you the last time my Expectations were blown out of the water so well. It was a incredible re imaging of Space Seed and WOK. Wish the whole super blood was not a part but easily can overlook for such a wonder summer escapist romp that will breath much needed new life into Star Trek as a Whole.

Thank you @Boborci and team from the bottom of my heart

BTW: Is there/Was there a ARG experience like the 2009 or is it really mainly just the App? – Missed that but i am not sure if it is still not coming?

Thank you again

999. Starfleet Jim - May 20, 2013

@971 PaulB
McCoy disapproves of it, but please show me where there is any ethical debate re Genesis between Carol and David or Kirk/Spock/McCoy. Granted, it is a subtext (for those who really think about it) of the ethical consideration. It does not seem to be a predominant theme of TWOK, but I’m open to enlightenment. Thanks!

1000. Commodore Adams - May 20, 2013

@ 993. jeffman1701 “Outstanding Movie. It is definitely in my all time top 5 movies. I want to see it again and again and again. I love JJ’s trek and I am a Trek fan of over 30 years.”

Kudos to you dude, you are a true trek fan, you love all and shun none, just like me. The new movies are fantastic, I want to see STID again and again as well. All the haters can stay at home, watch previous Star Trek and stay stuck in the past.

We all know Star Trek has brains, there is nothing wrong with showing that it has brawn as well.

1001. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

My revised top 5 rankings;

1. TUC
2. STID
3. TWOK
4. ST09
5. FC

1002. Ralph Pinheiro - May 20, 2013

Mr. Bob Orci. I really enjoyed this story, but I think Harrison could be an experiment of Augment embryos, using past experience and prohibited, but not exactly Khan. Harrison discover the Botany Bay and his origins, he feels an implacable hatred and spirit of revenge to the star fleet high command,. Alm. Marcus would be the real villain behind it all.
I do not like when you try to revive the franchise icons. For audiences non trekker Khan is an unknown.

1003. Aashlee - May 20, 2013

You know, I have a feeling that each time I see this movie, I’m going to come away with a different experience. There is so much detail, and the story is so multi-layered.

After my first viewing, the action-adventure aspects stood out — maybe the fact I saw it in IMAX 3-D had much to do with that — with the questions that Mr. Scott brought up as he opposed the presence of the torpedoes on the ship: Aren’t we supposed to be explorers? What is it that we truly want? Why are we letting dark elements disrupt that? We must stop them!

During my second viewing (in 2-D digital DLP this time), I was drawn more into the evolution of Kirk and Spock’s friendship and the relationship dynamics between members of our favorite crew. And I became even more disgusted with “the evil within,” the idea that people, like Admiral Marcus, can be so hell-bent on their own goals that they have no problem killing and destroying other people’s lives to attain them. And for what?

I wonder what will speak to me the third, fourth, fifth time I watch it… It’ll be like going to different movie every time. I love that!

By the way, we’ve already ordered our Blu-ray copy.

I think “Star Trek Into Darkness” is a wonderful addition to the Trek saga. It will reward those who watch it — truly watch it — with a thrilling action/adventure, satisfying character development, several humorous moments, and a few things to think about on multiple levels.

Thank you again, Mr. Orci & Company!

1004. Jai - May 20, 2013

People here who have read the first “open thread” on Star Trek Into Darkness will know my main gripe with the movie is with the supposed “big reveal” of John Harrison as Khan. Especially the racial whitewashing, along with the younger Spock’s claims about Khan being a “war criminal” guilty of “mass genocide” totally contradicting Starfleet’s historical records in “Space Seed” even though nothing in this timeline is supposed to have changed pre-Nero-incursion, and the fact that Harrison’s personality and ethics also bear very little resemblance to Khan in Space Seed.

I made my opinions clear in this long comment: http://trekmovie.com/2013/05/15/sticky-star-trek-into-darkness-arrives-in-north-america-and-most-of-the-world-open-thread/#5097148. I also posted a few more comments on the subject later on that thread.

But — like I also said a couple of times in that thread — there may be a major twist: Harrison could have been lying about being Khan, as an “I am Spartacus!” tactic or for some diabolical reason.

Guess what? During the weekend, I managed to find Alan Dean Foster’s official novelisation of STID. The book has just been published here in Britain, and it includes some information that dramatically changes the way you may perceive the events in the movie.

Shall we begin?

Firstly, the part of the book describing Kirk’s interrogation of Harrison in the brig makes it clear Kirk suspects Harrison is lying when he claims his name is “Khan”.

Secondly, the real bombshell is on page 307, towards the end of the book. Pages 307 and 308 describe the scene where Starfleet technicians are locking Harrison in his cryopod along with the other 72 frozen Augments sealed in that room.

It’s very cleverly worded, but page 307 strongly hints John Harrison’s real name is not “Khan”. So, he really was lying, as Kirk suspected. Harrison is almost certainly not Khan Noonien Singh.

Thirdly, the end of the scene — on page 308 — also makes it clear there’s actually much more going on than meets the eye in terms of the real situation involving the 73 Augments. Much more than those two Starfleet technicians (and, by implication, STID’s audience) realise.

This still doesn’t explain why Spock’s claims about Khan being a “war criminal” guilty of “mass genocide” completely contradict Starfleet’s historical records in Space Seed — especially as JJ Abrams has recently been making pointed remarks about pre-Nero-incursion canon remaining unchanged.

But it does mean STID’s senior cast and crew members weren’t necessarily lying when they kept insisting Khan is not in STID. It also means John Cho may have been hinting at the real story arc during an MTV interview when he pointedly described Khan as a “person of colour”.

I suspect we’ll get some answers to all this in the After Darkness comic (or “next week”, according to Bob Orci’s comments here) or in Star Trek 3 — especially as Cumberbatch was already predicted to resurface in ST3 if Harrison survived STID (which he does, of course): http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/05/03/there-are-plans-star-trek-3-and-they-involve-klingons-but-what-about-abrams/

All this is obviously assuming these parts of the official novelisation of STID aren’t a form of retroactive “damage control”.

But if the book is actually based on the official STID screenplay, it means someone seriously dropped the ball when it came to translating the story to the big screen — because the movie missed out some major information about John Harrison that was absolutely critical to the story. (The same sort of thing that happened to the original theatrical version of Kingdom of Heaven, compared to the far superior “definitive edition” extended DVD version).

Not only would including this information about Harrison in the theatrical version of STID have resulted in the movie making much more sense, it would also have prevented a hell of a lot of unnecessary controversy.

1005. shawn - May 20, 2013

Even though ive read alote on the movie before i saw it, saw Khan written somewhere in the corner of my eye, saw every possible video and clip… Mt expectation were very high and i was still blown away. Im a real hardcore star trek fan of every show and even when I was just a kid this movie was the star trek I was dreaming of and hoping for.

This movie is amazing in every way, so much action, the prime directive is in there, lots of humor and heart. A family/friendship movie. It has everything a good star trek needs and more. For me it was 3 times better than the first. The plot and script were a very good one , not perfect but very good. An amazing ride with lots of emotions. Everything a good movie is supposed to give us. So why are people still complaining? Its like saying the dark night was not batman and not as good as the original batman with Adam West.!!!!!

My only complaint would be that the enterprise does not give a fight ( in both films) I dont think it fired once. The space combat was so so for me. Would love to some nice spaceship battles in the next one.

Thank you Abrams , Orci and alex for making a boys dream come true by refreshing something so dear to alote of peoples hearts. I Give star trek a 9.5/10

1006. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 20, 2013

@1001. Aashlee

I agree with you completely. I’ve seen it 5 times so far (and will go again later today) and each time I pick up something new.

1007. LtSheridan - May 20, 2013

@562. DoubleTorpor
1. Kahn: In TOS he was a genetically modified human. Stronger, less vulnerable to pain, quicker reaction time, etc… but *human*. The Kahn I saw in STID was….Wolverine or The Terminator. Kirk beat the s**t out of him and didn’t even break his skin? His seeming invincibility was so established at that point in the movie, that I almost laughed when Scotty was able to put him down with a mere phaser stun.
—————————–
Scotty didn’t take him out with a phaser stun- Khan was faking it. WHY Kirk thought a phaser stun would take him out though is questionable (maximum stun setting?) Also, In TWOK didn’t Khan have the stamina/strenght to survive on a devastated planet and the exploding bridge of the Reliant (where is crew is tossed all around and killed and he survives?) Besides– this is an updated 2013 film with 2013 expectations- we can’t have Space Seed slow 1960′s style fight scenes in a fast-paced 2016 film any more than we can have 1980′s slow lightsaber fights in Star Wars translate to the new Star Wars prequel trilogy well either. This is an updated film not a 1 to 1 remake.

1008. LtSheridan - May 20, 2013

562. DoubleTorpor
3. Kahn’s blood. Wow, an effective and fast-acting cure for every physical illness up to and including death.
——————
I didn’t think Kirk was dead yet (Bones said something about freezing him to preserve brain functions?)- but I’m not doctor! And he quiped something like “You weren’t THAT dead.”
ALTHOUGH they did put Kirk in a body bag for some reason. I’m thinking that was that just to keep his radiation away from others? There were 2 dudes in radiation suits behind Bones in that scene.
There is so much stuff going on in this film that it takes a lot of anyalyzing to “guess” what the intent was- its one of the problems I have with the film…but overall my I still give this film a 10 out of 10.
Lots of great moments. Looking forward to see them encounter something on thier 5 year mission besides a super-villian in the next film. Khan and Marcus were great villians but now its time to follow the setup at the end of the movie and get away from a militarized Starfleet….

1009. Crone - May 20, 2013

Liked it even more on second viewing yesterday. Am trying to talk myself out of going today, as I have real life stuff that needs to get done. Damn that real life stuff.
I liked the 3-d better in Real 3-D , rather than Imax 3-D. Am I imagining a difference here?? Is there a difference?

1010. Phil - May 20, 2013

@958. Almost? Isn’t that like saying the Titanic almost missed the iceberg?

1011. Hugh Hoyland - May 20, 2013

After two viewings of STID my feelings havent changed from the 1st to the “second”, I still think this is the “best” overall Star Trek motion picture to date (but always keep in mind art is very, very subjective and individual) so my best could be someone elses dog. But I think I have legit reason to feel the way I do about it.

First visually: Stunning and downright beautiful in some areas, epic. my eyes didnt see a cartoony CGI “blurp” in the entire movie, the FX and real sets and actors were blended together very smoothy IMO. I put this a notch above TMP in this department, TMP being truly the most cinematic looking Star Trek motion picture to date until Star Trek 09.

Story/Plot: A lot, LOT of fans (particularly some Trekkies) complained that Star Trek 09 didnt have that “star Trek morality” tale, they said “it was just a shoot em up space adverture. Again IMO they missed the point of Nero, his motives, and the reason for his ultimate destruction and there were other sub stories dealing with Kirk/Spock that I wont go into them now because they should be freakin obvious. Also an origins story is just that, its a coming together, and theres only so much depth you can go into in. But whatever.

But this story DOES have that good old fashioned “Trek morality tale” in spades IMO. I mean I’m not going to spell it out but it should be obvious to even the causual observer. One big hint is “MIC”. Also theres the Kirk arc and others. Just look for them, their there. IMO this is the best over all Star Trek motion picture to date.

1012. frumpus - May 20, 2013

Really looking forward to Star Trek: Trouble with Super Tribbles

@boborci

1013. NuFan - May 20, 2013

We would know if Khan is coming back if someone would just ask Cumberbatch how many he signed for.

1014. sean - May 20, 2013

#968

“But a Starfleet officer being coerced into the attack because he believes his daughter’s life is more important than the dozens around him? That’s what I struggle with.”

Is there anything you would not do for your family? That’s a thread that runs throughout this film. And this particular officer is already working for an extragovernmental agency that runs contrary to the founding principles of the Federation and Starfleet by attempting to build weapons of mass destruction in an attempt to engage the Klingons in a preemptive war. I’d say this person had a pretty flexible conscience to begin with. High pressure situations and desperation can cause people to act in ways completely inconsistent with their usual character. It’s even possible that Khan manipulated existing feelings of guilt in this man for working for Section 31 in the first place, thus making him feel he was doing something noble or just.

1015. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1002 Jai,
“This still doesn’t explain why Spock’s claims about Khan being a “war criminal” guilty of “mass genocide” completely contradict Starfleet’s historical records in Space Seed”

The easiest explanation here is that whatever Marcus was up to, he most likely had all of the Federation records related to Khan Noonien Singh, deleted or revised. On some level he has to know his plan could backfire and he would need an exit strategy. The last thing Marcus would want is some liberal sympathy for Khan along the lines expressed by Kirk, Scotty and McCoy in Space Seed.** That’s assuming Spock got his information from federation records after learning Khan’s true name. We don’t know actually where he got this information, though its unlikely he got it from Prime Spock — then again, didn’t Prime Spock mislead Kirk into thinking there was a grandfather paradox in ST09 as a way to keep him from revealing Nimoy’s existence to Quinto? Perhaps Nimoy exaggerated Khan’s role to motivate Quinto? Prime Spock definitely labeled Khan a “criminal” in Space Seed, but yeah “genocide” is a new one that would have been brought up if it were true.

As for your theory, the thought occurred to me from the moment I learned Harrison was allegedly Khan. See my comments @23 and Orci’s response @26 — that gives a lot of support to our thoughts. Thank you for doing the homework on the novelization, I might actually pick it up for a Summer read now. However, I wouldn’t fault the writers, or Abrams for leaving anything out of the movie. There is more than enough on screen to open up the possibility that Harrison is lying about being Khan, and what if they decide not to include Khan in the next movie, or what if there’s not a next movie from these guys? If this is their plan, there’s likely something incredibly subtle hidden in the film that allows them to call back to Harrison’s true identity. Honestly, though it was far from subtle, when I first saw TWOK, it never occurred to me that Spock’s “remember” was anything important. In fact I had to go back and look at the video after STIII to make sure that moment was actually in the film.

**as a side note, evidently they no longer teach a course on the Eugenics wars at the academy, at least not one that discusses Khan in any detail. Harrison basically tells them he is a genetically engineered human from the late 20th century named Khan. If Kirk had the same education as in TOS, he would have certainly connected the dots, as would McCoy and Scotty. Granted Kirk was not as inclined to view him as romantically given Harrison’s behavior to this point, but there was no recognition. Or perhaps that’s what you were sensing … Harrison’s reveal did not reconcile with Kirk’s memory from his history classes. Nevertheless, it should have been enough for Spock to find on his own without consulting His Prime doppelgänger.

1016. Captain Asaraiel - May 20, 2013

Those having an issue with in-atmosphere flight for the ENTERPRISE are forgetting at least one TOS episode where it happens. They go back to the 60′s and US military gets a look at them as I recall.

1017. Josh C. - May 20, 2013

1002, 1012 – well, there are a couple of explanations

1) There has been some retconning after Space Seed (or perhaps, clarification with better historical info) that Khan wasn’t as conflict-free as we were led to believe in Space Seed. His behavior in both Space Seed and Wrath of Khan would lend credence to this idea as well

2) Khan aid that he AND HIS CREW would return to what they were doing before being banished, and that Spock was referring to Augment actions during the Eugenics War as a whole.

1018. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1005. LtSheridan,
” Khan and Marcus were great villians but now its time to follow the setup at the end of the movie and get away from a militarized Starfleet….”

Couldn’t agree more.

I actually wonder if this doesn’t hurt Star Trek for general audiences? I mean it’s so insider, or seems that way, by putting the conspiracy within Starfleet (fan-boy criticism?). I have to imagine even the uninitiated viewer must realize Starfleet is an allusion for the US Military and the Federation analogous to the US centric UN.

TOS would have taken this story to another planet. It would have played out the same, except the conspiracy would have been with that planet’s government, and the Enterprise would have gotten caught in the middle. The villain would have seen Starfleet as an ally of their enemy and attacked them directly in the beginning. In the end, Starfleet would have turned the planet’s government around and sailed on to its next conflict.

I’m not sure that isn’t the best way to go here. The allegory is not lost, yet it’s not so ham fisted, or depressing. People seem to be entertained most when you aren’t pointing a finger directly at them the entire time. Then again, perhaps they learn less that way. I suppose it depends on what your goals are. Just a thought, could be completely off-base …

As long as these guys are going to give me an homage-laced nostalgia trip, what I really want to see is Scotty sitting in the center chair trying to prevent the Enterprise from burning up in the atmosphere caused by some mysterious power drain from the planet below, while he attempts to simultaneously provide aid and support to Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and (yes even) Uhura fighting for their lives on the surface, all before Kirk fires him. ;-)

1019. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1013. As I recall, it was upper atmosphere, and there was a real sense of urgency to get the ship back into orbit, where it belonged….nuEnterprise, from the clips, seems to be right at home in atmosphere…and under it, judging from the passible Seaview impersonation. There seems to be nothing this ship can’t do, now that we ignore physics….even fake physics.

Next stop, Ludicrous speed!!

1020. The River Temoc - May 20, 2013

1002/Jai – I saw your earlier comments about Khan’s ethnicity, and they were spot-on. I plan on re-watching STID in a couple of days with an eye to the theory that Khan is actually Joachim. It’s intriguing to see there may be support for this theory in the novelization.

We do know from “Space Seed” that the Augments’ downfall began when they began to fight among themselves. This could be Joachim’s way of stepping out of Khan’s shadow and finally defeating him. And it would add an extra layer to the subtext of the movie — Joachim masquerading as Kahn masquerading as John Harrison masquerading as a loyal Starfleet officer.

1021. Phil - May 20, 2013

Oh, and in the fake biology department, apparently McCoy has discovered the Fountain of Youth. A few drops of John Harrison, and you can restore a cooked, irradiated body back to it’s youthful vigor.

Full disclosure…opinions being formed from reviews and spoilers.

1022. Mad Mann - May 20, 2013

I am not surprised about the less-than-stellar low box office take for STiD. Here is why I think it sorta bombed:
–Too crowded May. Too many big movies opened up, STiD got sandwiched between Iron Man 3, Gatsby, Hangover III and Fast & Furious 6.
–Marketing dropped the ball on selling the movie. Nobody, except Trekkies, will see a movie they know nothing about. The cool and flashy action scenes might work for some, but people want to know what a movie is about! The 2009 did a very good job on this: it was about the origins of the crew, enough said. I blame JJ Abrams on this. His “mystery box” philosophy might be better for the movie-going experience, but it does NOT make people want to see the movie in the first place! He should of just told people that Khan was the villain and still keep the Marcus twist in the end a secret. I heard someone say it’d be like Christopher Nolan keeping the Joker a secret going into The Dark Knight. Dumb move, JJ.
–Little to no merchandise. Again, I blame Abrams for this. I heard he got frustrated dealing with the whole CBS/Paramount ownership on Star Trek licsensing and just said screw it. When the 2009 movie came out, there was a HUGE display at ToysRUs, this year nothing. Also in 2009 there was a big promotion at Burger King, a Star Trek Cereal, on waffles, it was everywhere! This time hardly anywhere!
–The movie ads and trailers did not appeal across all demographics. As a high school teacher, I can quickly guage the success of a movie by the interest level amoung my students: not a single one was interested in this STiD. Not a one. Four years ago about a third of my students saw that Star Trek, now none. Teenagers and young adults have the time, disposable income, and interest to see movies multiple times so that should be the target audience but the marketing dropped the ball on getting their attention.
–Lastly, there was too much of “Wrath of Khan” in the movie. I read many people were turned off by this, that it bordered on parody or rip-off rather than a homage.

I bet Paramount will drop the budget on the next one by $100 mill. And I am glad they will since it will force the film-makers to make a more intimate, character-driven movie. And maybe make it more space-based by shooting more scenes in starships rather than alien planets.

1023. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

Star Trek Strange New Worlds
Star Trek Where no one has gone before

Those are my 2 pitches for part 3 bob :)

Forget the Klingon war arc, go with a 3hr 5 yr mission story or have the crew crashed and stranded on unknown planet that is wierd and dream like, the planet projects the crews fears, memories, hope, wants, needs onto their surroundings. A planet that is alive and will not let the crew live, a reimagined planetary trelane. I want credit this time lol

1024. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1014. Josh C.,
“1) There has been some retconning after Space Seed…2) Spock was referring to Augment actions during the Eugenics War as a whole.”

1) yes, this retconning. I’m not familiar with Khan having ever been specifically retconned. But happy to find out more. All I really have to go on is Space Seed, which seems pretty comprehensive — more than any proof we get in STID. When Scotty says no massacres, if he had committed genocide (which is far worse), you think Spock would have responded with something other than they had no freedom. McCoy’s next comment about no offensive wars seem to just deplete Spock of major retorts. I’ve made this argument before that Khan’s actions in SS and TWOK demonstrate he was likely a far more violent dictator than the picture they paint, indeed pointing out that a massacre is one thing, but individual political murders are another. You dont take away a societies freedoms without some fear of reprisal, especially in that part of the world. Likewise, I would now argue that genocide, or even the spectre of it under his rule would have been well documented.

2). Was he? I don’t recall. So Spock was saying that Khan was part of a group of war criminals comprised of geonocidal dictators and the like? Not that Khan specifically was guilty of genocide?

1025. Carlos Teran - May 20, 2013

@1016. Exactly what I was thinking.

It reminds me Futurama’s “The Deep South”:

Leela: Depth at 45 hundred feet, 48 hundred, 50 hundred! 5000 feet!
Farnsworth: Dear Lord, that’s over 150 atmospheres of pressure.
Fry: How many atmospheres can this ship withstand?
Farnsworth: Well it’s a spaceship, so I’d say anywhere between zero and one.

Ludicrous speed coming!. :D

1026. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

Leave*

1027. Phil - May 20, 2013

NASA sent a probe to Jupiter a while back, with the intent of having it enter the atmosphere. Worked great, until it was crushed at about 40 atmospheres. NuEnterprise is a bit under 3000 feet long, so if we send her down 3000 feet, that’s 90 atmospheres, and 152 at 5000 feet down.

At least the cartoon show got the pressure correct….I’d love to see Enterprise do a barrel roll at Ludicrous speed….

1028. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1017. The River Temoc,
“We do know from “Space Seed” that the Augments’ downfall began when they began to fight among themselves. This could be Joachim’s way of stepping out of Khan’s shadow and finally defeating him.”

Yes, we also have Enterprise depiction of augments first hand depicting this rivalry. This is a MUCH more interesting retelling of Khan.

We know his stasis pod malfunctioned and he would have died had it not been for McCoy. Now that we know Khan has special blood that won’t let him die, perhaps after his chamber malfunctioned he was left for dead until they were transferring the occupants to new chambers and discovered faint life signs, and put him back into stasis as well. We don’t know what happens after the main pod malfunctions, perhaps it awakens the second in command. That would be logical. Perhaps instead, Marcus triggered the awakening cycle before ever setting foot in the ship. Khans pod malfunctioned, the second in command was awakened, heard Marcus’ boarding party, and quickly moved Khan into his pod and refrozen him (knowing Khan would survive this “death”), then posed as Khan.

1029. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1023. So, what you are saying is lets do another movie with the Nexus…

1030. dmduncan - May 20, 2013

1017: “I plan on re-watching STID in a couple of days with an eye to the theory that Khan is actually Joachim. It’s intriguing to see there may be support for this theory in the novelization.”

Yeah, the way the movie played out you CAN actually get away with that theory for the future. For example, if there were some Botany Bay protocol for deceiving whoever boarded the ship regarding who the leader was. We just don’t KNOW how “Harrison” was chosen. You can use the alternate universe theory to screw up the records of the Eugenics Wars and Khan’s identity so that the information they get comes directly from the BBs own records, which are falsified to protect Khan’s real identity and to masquerade Joachim (or someone else) as Khan to any accidental discoverer.

You have to remember—they are ALL super.

As devious as those guys were that’s the sort of protocol you’d imagine they’d have.

And as Khan says in TWOK: “These people have sworn to live and die at my command 200 years before you were born.”

Being on the run, they wouldn’t be so naive as to make their leader easily identifiable to anyone who discovered them. So there is room in the question of how “Harrison” was identified as Khan to alter his identity yet again.

1031. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1022 Mad Mann,
“–The movie ads and trailers did not appeal across all demographics….–Lastly, there was too much of “Wrath of Khan” in the movie. I read many people were turned off by this”

I understand TWOK putting off Trek fans, I don’t see how this would affect a broader general audience unfamiliar with Star Trek. The complaint I have heard most is that the ending was telegraphed so obviously there was no suspense in Kirk’s death. That is a valid reason for general audiences to be disappointed. Again not sure how it affects the opening weekend box office, unless Trek fans account for a good percentage of the opening weekend box office through repeated viewings which were reconsidered after the first.

Your assertion that the trailers did not appeal across all demographics is interesting. I thought the trailers made this film look as exciting as any film I ever wanted to see. I thought they were much better than ST09′s. What specifically do you think did not appeal to high school students in the trailers?

Otherwise I think you hit a lot of good points …

1032. Tom - May 20, 2013

I Remember the Supreme Court saying that they thought about succerssful sequels like Empire Strikes Back, Aliens. Dark Knight as models for this movie. Wonder what they will use for the next movie. With the liklihood of a new director this will be interesting.

1033. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

#1029

Nexus was a energy ribbon that was poorly done, my idea is for the planet to be alive with a concious that can project crews fears also, not just wants and needs.

1034. Konar - May 20, 2013

1011 — agree with you wholeheartedly. I loved it. I went with two others — a friend who is a casual Trek fan and couldn’t even name the other movies she’s seen (other than 2009) and my partner, who is about as far away from a Star Trek fan as who can get. Predictably, the casual fan LOVED it… not so predictably, my partner thought it was one of the best, most exciting movies he’s ever seen. As an experiment, I asked them both what they thought the movie was about. They both said “Kirk and Spock coming to terms and realizing they are necessary to each other.”

1035. LogicalLeopard - May 20, 2013

So here’s the best thing about STID:

“A Five Year Mission, Spock!!!!”

I loved Kirk’s enthusiasm to go exploring. I never thought about how exciting the news must have been when Kirk Prime got it, and apparently this is at least in this universe the first mission of such a long duration. Getting the concept of a militarized Starfleet out of the way was essential, and this movie accomplished that wonderfully. Now, we’ve got wide open sky for exploration. I think this next movie is where the brain trust may do the man vs element/circumstance plot they were considering for this one. I’m eager to see what they pick. Although I won’t complain about an augment revisit, I’d rather see something different in this movie.

1036. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1031. Well, a couple of the business pages cut right to the heart of the matter – the audience was skewing older male, not that younger audience JJ went after in the last movie, that older audience being Trek fans. A couple of them came right out and said STID was a movie for the fan-boys out there. The four year gap between movies means that that younger audience that came out last time has wandered off., and BC’s John Harrison was undefined. He spent his time emoting ‘bad guy’ lines in the trailers, and that was the end of it.

My son, in HS, mentioned one of his friends saw the movie and liked it, and he’d like to see it, too. Then he said, that’s the problem, there are too many good movies out there right now. Next weekends box office is key, if the drop is in the 50% range, the movie may stick around a while and match the numbers from ST09. If it takes a beating at the hands of FF6, and drops more then 60%, STID will have a hard time getting over the 200MM mark…

1037. Mad Mann - May 20, 2013

@ 1031 Curious Cadet

Thanks. The “too-much-Wrath of Khan”-ness of the movie could hurt word of mouth. So, I could imagine someone say: “don’t bother seeing the movie, it’s basically Wrath of Khan with better effects.” And it would also affect repeat viewings, as you said.

I do have a lot of the “nerdy” type students in my IB physics classes, who you would think would like this kind of movie, but they simply had no interest. I asked a few and they are excited for either Iron Man 3 or Great Gatsby. I think they just did not know what STiD was about. I got a lot of “what is it, just running and yelling?” and some did not even know it took place in the future. I also have a lot of inner-city kids in my regular physics classes who only want to see FF6 and Hangover III. So, it was a combiniation of being lost in too many big movies and not making itself stand out that hurt STiD.

My collegues and friends are also not-interested.

1038. J - May 20, 2013

The moment I particularly admire is when the Nibiru natives start drawing the E on the ground. I love how the falling volcano ash suddenly transforms into stars passing the E. Brilliant!

1039. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1035 Logical Leopard,
“I loved Kirk’s enthusiasm to go exploring”

It’s an infectious delivery, I’ll give you that.

You know what would have made that resonate for me? Anything in the first movie or this one that demonstrated Kirk’s interest in exploring the universe.

I got say, until you said that, I never thought about why Kirk wanted to joining Starfleet other than turning his own life around, and possibly proving he could be as good a captain, if not better than his father.

Upon reflection, I’m not sure I understand where Kirk’s passion for exploration comes from, other than paying lip service to the fans desire to see him explore. Contrast this to Indiana Jones’ origin story portrayed by the young River Phoenix. You understood exactly why Indy had to be an archeologist as well as taking the risks he did.

‘Because its there’ is an acceptable challenge I suppose, and motivation enough for some, I just guess I expected something deeper. Did I just miss it somewhere in all the cretic action?

1040. Mad Mann - May 20, 2013

@1036 Phil,

Exactly, the movie is skewing older and male. It’s like the marketing isn’t even trying to attract younger audience. I remember the 2009 movie had specific character ads that was aimed at kids and aired on Nickelodeon, this one just has the generic ads.

well, the box office will hurt because of it.

1041. section9 - May 20, 2013

If @boborci shows up, here’s a lesson:

Lucasfilm commissioned the Clone Wars animated series to hold interest in the Star Wars Franchise, not out of the goodness of their hearts.

If anyone at Paramount had 1/2 a brain, they’d sit down with CBS, hash out what needs to be hashed out, and put up an animated series that was good, that engaged teenagers, (not just the Fanboi community) and held their interest in Trek).

You want to grow this franchise? Till the fields.

Lucas did. That’s why his franchise is the biggest.

1042. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

I think STID box office numbers are good and will be fine, it has made $164mil so far worldwide? That is pretty good for the first weekend. Keep in mind many people still will watch it a second time with different people and so on and will make between $350-500mil.

The problem is that films like Iron Man, Superman and FF will keep STID from passing 600mil.

The promotion of the film should have embraced KHAN.

1043. n1701ncc - May 20, 2013

I just want to say a few words on the STID.

First I want to thank JJ , Bob and the rest of the team for creating a great movie and respecting as much as the could the cannon of Star Trek.

Second why is everyone so upset over Spock yelling Khan. I have no issue with it as we are in a different time line and Spock is learning how deal with his human emotions. As we learned in the ST 2009 Spock is not Spock Prime.

Third I for one wanted Khan to stay back in the Prime universe. That he has been re invented in the new time line , this gives Khan the title of greatest Star Trek villian. While I beleive he is a great villain and has the most appeal to Trekkies and non Trekkies there are so many other villians to pursue in the Star Trek universe that Khan did not have to be re invented again.

Fourth the is for Bob Orci and company the crew has now embarked on the 5 yr mission. Maybe we can see what I think would be the next great villian. Harcout Fenton Mudd…but this time make him into a Heath Ledger Joker character. Dont kill him off either but make him live so that he can come back again. Its too bad Garry Mitchel cant be used but I think you have a winner with a diabolicly Mudd. Also stay away from earth in the next movie.

Guys your work with Star Trek is genuis. You have kept alive the tradition of Star Trek … to JJ , Bob and team Live Long and Prosper

1044. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

Yes Mudd will work, a crazy evil Han Solo type space dealer and pirate that has access to the map of the universe that came from narada from the future! All the secrets all the starfleet, klingons, cardassians, romulans and borg will want!

This Mudd is not human though but is a android

1045. Ahmed - May 20, 2013

@1043. n1701ncc

“Second why is everyone so upset over Spock yelling Khan. I have no issue with it as we are in a different time line and Spock is learning how deal with his human emotions. As we learned in the ST 2009 Spock is not Spock Prime.”

Because it was ridiculous & meaningless. People at the theater were laughing when that scene came up.

“Guys your work with Star Trek is genuis. You have kept alive the tradition of Star Trek ”

Yeah, right. They kept it alive by rehashing same story in a crappy way. By not been able to come up with any original story in a new universe they created mainly to get away from the burden of the prime universe. Good job indeed !!!

1046. Ann - May 20, 2013

Well, well well, Lots of people spun up about Benedict Cumberbatch playing Khan . I would like to point out that not everybody seeing this movie even knows who Khan is.My husband had no idea until Leonard Nimoy explained to younger Spock just who he is .The only Star Trek movie he has ever seen was the 2009 movie.My daughter who has yet to see STID,her movie cancelled this weekend due to tornado warnings .Also has no idea who Khan is as she is 22 and has never seen the series, but has seen the 2009 movie .
I might add my husband who rarely goes to movies loved STID and wants to see it again.
Woulda coulda shoulda all you want about Khan .
It was a thrill ride and we loved it !!!!!!

1047. somethoughts - May 20, 2013

#1045

Did you even pay attention? How is the story even the same?

You are allowed to not like it but at least make good points, shakes my head at trolls.

1048. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1038 J,
Me too. And that’s why they should have given us a post credits scene like this one, which I repost from the previous thread here for its brilliance. Would have loved to have seen this …

795. You want me to put on a WHAT color shirt!?!? – May 17, 2013
Bob Orci,

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already, but here is the post credits scene I was hoping to see…

Planet Nibiru…1000 years in the future.

Two archeologists digging near a long dormant volcano come across a cave painting of a “starship” and other renderings that tell a tale of “aliens” that save the local villagers.

One archeologist looks at the other and says:

“Aliens from outer space. Yeah, right.”

1049. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

I kept thinking that Dr McCoy injected Khan’s blood into the tribble after Kirk died, but I now recall that Kirk asked McCoy what he was doing with the tribble. It seemed at the time one of those little throw away lines. McCoy’s response had Kirk rolling his eyes or something. The real significance of what McCoy had done with the tribble only became really apparent after Kirk had died.

Don’t people realize that dying is a process – one that continues on after the heart stops, which is the first stage. Unless there has been major brain injury, there is still some brain activity. You don’t suddenly go cold and rigid…believe me, I know – I’ve had to watch a number of my beloved animals get put to sleep…

How do you think that organ transplants are possible? Because the person who has just ‘died’ is dying dead, not dead dead. Dead dead usually takes several hours to occur. The ‘trick’ is to do what needs to be done – eg removing the donated organ within those few hours, otherwise the organ is as dead as everything else. If the organ cannot immediately be transplanted into a living recipient, then it has to go into cryostasis to halt the organ’s decay. Even then, the sooner the organ is placed into the recipient, the better. Time and speed is of the essence.

Dr McCoy put Kirk’s DYING dead body into a cryotube to stop the dying process BEFORE Kirk got to be dead dead. Dr McCoy had to work fairly quickly to synthesize the serum from Khan’s blood, once Spock and Uhura had managed to capture him and bring him back to the Enterprise…

It was “magic” blood for the little girl and Jim Kirk because all other conditions making such “magical” life from (near) death possible were in place.

1050. Srsly - May 20, 2013

@1049:
… Seriously? No line as in-your-face as this right down to the tribble itself is ever a “throwaway” line. From the minute McCoy does this and further attention is called to it through dialog, any audience worth their salt should realize it will be important later.

1051. Ahmed - May 20, 2013

@ 1047. somethoughts – May 20, 2013

“#1045
Did you even pay attention? How is the story even the same?”

Lets see, we have Khan seeking vengeance. We have that whole reactor scene to save the Enterprise but this time they swap the characters. We have that ridiculous Khannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn scream, this time in such a lousy way.

These are clear TWOK rip- off, then we got similar plot to TUC about rough Starfleet officer who want to start war with the Klingon.

They should have kept John Harrison as an agent of Section 31 & run with it, not to rehash Khan again.

1052. Ray Kinsella - May 20, 2013

@boborci – did you consider a storyline where Pike did return to the Enterprise and have Kirk as 1st officer? When that possibility came up in the movie I thought it would be pretty interesting.

1053. LogicalLeopard - May 20, 2013

1039. Curious Cadet – May 20, 2013
@1035 Logical Leopard,
“I loved Kirk’s enthusiasm to go exploring”

It’s an infectious delivery, I’ll give you that.

You know what would have made that resonate for me? Anything in the first movie or this one that demonstrated Kirk’s interest in exploring the universe.

I got say, until you said that, I never thought about why Kirk wanted to joining Starfleet other than turning his own life around, and possibly proving he could be as good a captain, if not better than his father.

************************************

That’s true, any desire for exploration that Kirk posesses has not been clearly stated. It may be inferred from the fact that he IS Kirk, and he would probably have the same tendencies as Kirk Prime. Not hard for me to imagine young nu-Kirk wondering what it’s like to explore the stars. Maybe his mother has told him some stories, etc. Especially when you have an uncle who says you’re worthless, you may tend to think he’s a good judge of character when it comes to comparing you to a man you’ve never known (George Kirk). So it’s likely that he wouldn’t have thought he was cut out for Starfleet even if he wanted to explore. It’s a wonderful thing to be able to reclaim your childhood dreams. But that’s my private read on the issue, I’m sure others probably have different conceptions of the background. And like you said, the “Because it’s there” might be sufficent reason for Kirk to do what he does. To be the first, to be the best, etc. But I think there were moments in which Kirk demonstrated that he was intellectually curious. He knew some of the details of Xenolinguistics enough to hit on Uhura, and I’m not thinking he learned it just so he could hit on Xenolinguistics majors.

By the way, I didn’t think of this until I saw some posts here. We’ve all made parallels to Spock’s Death vs Kirk’s “Death”, but what about James Kirk compared to George Kirk? I do not get the feeling that he was thinking “Now’s my moment to be like my father.” I think he was sort of thinking “This is the only thing I can do. I got these people into this mess, and it’s only right that I get them out.” I think Kirk had been pushed to the limits of his self confidence and found himself wanting. That’s what makes his “death” scene so sad….if he had have died, he would have died not really knowing his own potential.

*******************************

1054. NuFan - May 20, 2013

Fubamushu – December 12, 2012
This is such a microcosim of the U.S. Despite being presented with facts and logic, people will still cling to irrational beliefs and fantasy.

chrisfawkes.com – December 13, 2012
In a couple of years they will be using post here from trek movie as an example of the power of denial in psychology classes.

1055. penhall - May 20, 2013

Saw the movie and thought it was great. Need a second viewing to get the full effect, though.

Random thoughts:

Khan being a blue-eyed Brit took some getting used to and made it tough for me to view him as KHAN.

Pretty much the entire cast is running around in interviews bashing Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Republicans, saying the movie sticks it to them. So am I the only one who viewed it as more of an indictment on Obama’s drone policy? That’s what Admiral Marcus wanted done that the Enterprise crew refused. Drop a missile on his head from a safe distance and leave, no trial no nothing. Sound familiar?

The battle between the Enterprise and the other ship was over in the blink of an eye. Too fast! I don’t believe the Enterprise even fired weapons once.

I liked the nods to TWOK and loved to see Nimoy again.

Carol Marcus’ Brit accent bugged me.

That’s about all for now. I would have liked to see Khan used a bit more as the villain and not a pawn. Him crying and working with Kirk bugged me at first. But once he let loose at the end I was happy.

Oh and in what mirror universe is an 84 million dollar opening for a Trek movie not good? Anyway, great film and I hope the same team stays in place for the next one.

1056. Legend of Link - May 20, 2013

The folks accusing STID of being the same story as WoK should take a closer look at what’s going on in each film. Sure, there are similar pieces to each: Kahn, death scene (with a twist), revenge. But at their cores, they are both very different tales.

WoK is about a man coming to terms with his morality. He’s “over the hill”, sitting in an office doing paperwork, while the young go out and explore the galaxy. Spock’s death helps Kirk realize just how short life can be. In the last scene, McCoy asks him how he feels. “Young”, he replies.

In STID, you have a young, brash, arrogant man only beginning to understand the characteristics expected of every Star Fleet captain. At this point, HE’S the young one exploring the galaxy, doing what he loves. Kirk’s death scene reflects an entirely different theme. Responsibility: the choice to put yourself in harm’s way over those who you are responsible for. “The needs of the many” if you will.

Both are Kirk-centric stories, yes, but they are also very different character arcs.

1057. @wikiwackywoo - May 20, 2013

Amy Davis in The New Yorker gets the allegorical/military criticism undertones of STID: a good read at http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/05/is-star-trek-into-darkness-a-drone-allegory.html

Is this what @boborci meant when, he tweeted about The White House requesting a print, saying something like ‘I hope they watch and learn’ (paraphrase)

The New Yorker piece is short, intelligent, and not paywalled. Recommended, needless to say.

1058. Damian - May 20, 2013

992 and 993–Greg Cox’s novel “To Reign in Hell” (a great book by the way, and a must read for any fan of TWOK) tries to explain how they messed up the order of the planets.

Remember, the orbit of Ceti Alpha V shifted (stated by Khan in TWOK). Now the novel notes Ceti Alpha VI was very close by when it exploded. Basically V ended up more or less where VI was. There was also something about an asteroid field nearby the last time it was charted, and after VI exploded it more or less became an asteroid field. The characters noted that when a starship looks for a planet, they look for it in it’s known coordinates and nearby objects. They don’t actually “count” the planets.

It’s not a perfect explanation (as there really isn’t any that would work perfectly), but I give Cox credit for at least trying. He also explained a lot of other inconsistencies between Space Seed and TWOK, such as how Chekov knew Khan, and even something so mundane as why Khan wore a glove throughout TWOK. As a Trekkie and a fan of all Star Trek from “The Cage” to STID, I appreciated the attention to detail and it made it fun to read.

BTW, Star Trek’s “real birthday” should be 2014 (since The Cage was produced in 1964), though I of course understand why they celebrate it from 1966.

1059. William Bradley - May 20, 2013

My liking for STID goes up greatly if John Harrison is NOT Khan. The description of the novelization is interesting in that regard.

However, what happened in Space Seed is that the landing party inadvertently triggered Khan’s awakening from cold sleep. It’s not entirely clear what they did that triggered it. What is clear is it was not their intention.

But the key point is that Khan was programmed to be revived first, the fearsome genius leader awakening in advance of the rest of the super friends. And the programming and launching of Botany Bay and all that happened long before the emergence of Nero.

>1030. dmduncan – May 20, 2013
1017: “I plan on re-watching STID in a couple of days with an eye to the theory that Khan is actually Joachim. It’s intriguing to see there may be support for this theory in the novelization.”

Yeah, the way the movie played out you CAN actually get away with that theory for the future. For example, if there were some Botany Bay protocol for deceiving whoever boarded the ship regarding who the leader was. We just don’t KNOW how “Harrison” was chosen.

1060. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

#1050 – oh up yours. I was not the only audience, obviously not “worth their salt” to realize the importance later. Dr McCoy was experimenting and the results were not known at that stage.

As far as I could tell, the “magic” blood appeared to work on a girl who was dying (ie her heart was still beating etc). There had been no indication given that the blood could bring anyone back from the “dead”. Moreover, no indication had been given as to how long the tribble had been dead… I was in the *dark* as to the outcome of his experiment on the tribble as Dr McCoy was – and what’s more, I can be.

#1055 – “Pretty much the entire cast is running around in interviews bashing Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Republicans, saying the movie sticks it to them. So am I the only one who viewed it as more of an indictment on Obama’s drone policy?”

What? I have not been aware of any of the cast making political comments with regards this movie or about present or past US politicians or their policies. Which actors?

1061. Allenburch - May 20, 2013

960. boborci “what causes people to be suicide bombers?”

Family.

And I love the unmistakable comparisons of Admiral Marcus with a few U.S. Presidents and others who use the threat of danger as an excuse to execute unconscionable actions.

1062. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 20, 2013

Mini review, I was profoundly disapointed in this new Star Trek into Darkness.
Where was the wonder and the new worlds?
This speaks volumes about Trek’s future.

IF it even has one.

What’s wrong people? Can’t we imagine anymore?

1063. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 20, 2013

Why can’t 70+ secret advanced Section 31 torpedoes even explode a single Starship?

Answer!

Because Star Trek is so dumbed-down these days.

Soooooo stupid.

1064. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 20, 2013

Why does a Sarship NOT burnup in re-entry when its aparently moving a hundred thousand miles an hour?

Because Star Trek is so dumbed-down these days.

1065. rogue_alice - May 20, 2013

1059 – I get the theory here, but I never thought Joachim was very tough. Maybe it was inferred off screen through the viciousness of the attack on Marcus’s research station.

But, the underlying thought that awakening protocol could have merit.

Sadly, it might confuse non trekkers.

1066. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 20, 2013

Why is McCoy, who is so smart and skilled as a surgeon, reduced to blood letting to save Kirk?!!!

1067. Andrew - May 20, 2013

Star Trek 2: Waste of Khan

1068. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1049…disclosure, I’ve not seen the movie yet…

That all depends on how one dies. Getting roasted in a massive radiation surge isn’t the same as slipping away into that good night somewhere. By the time that steak ends up on my plate, even at medium rare, it’s dead. Sprinkling a little John Harrison on it isn’t bringing that cow back. If Jim Kirk is thoroughly irradiated, he’s not dying, he’s dead. The magic blood isn’t resuscitating him, it’s having to remove and replace burned tissue and restore function to disabled organs. Looks like the good Dr. has discovered the Fountain of Youth to me here…

Sorry, this is a cheap plot device. Then again, I’m in a small minority that believes when old Spock died back in WOK, they should have left him dead.

1069. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1059. William Bradley,
“But the key point is that Khan was programmed to be revived first”

Yes, that’s assuming, one of the other previously damaged pods wasn’t rigged to revive first. Again that was McGivers account of what “often” normal sleeper ship procedures were, but not all, and who knows what modifications Khan might have made given their unique circumstances.

As you say, we also don’t know what triggered his revival. They allude to Scotty turning on the lights from the primary control center. This may result in a different protocol than some other trigger. Since we don’t know how Marcus boarded the BB, he may have triggered some sort of diversionary programming. Like if he docked with a shuttle and entered through a port. Or if he beamed onto some other deck, or activated some other control first, or even tried to revive another unit before triggering Khan’s.

There are so many ways this could be retconned to fit with STID, even if Khan’s pod was triggered first no matter what. See my comments at 1028.

1070. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

Probably not. People seem to want the same old, same old, even if they say they don’t…

The Menosian world with its nulis…is out there, quite possibly never discovered, because there are Klingons and others to have a scrap with, because being kicked and punched and doing same is just so much more meaningful, fun, creative, and gives males, in particular, a good testosterone/adrenaline rush…you know, painful and tingly all at once.

Perhaps it might be just as well Menosia is not found, given humanity present and future mindset…:(

Can we move beyond?

1071. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1062. I’m guessing all the other Trek movies left you horribly disappointed, too. I don’t think any of the other movies EVER explored the wonders of new worlds….

1072. William Bradley - May 20, 2013

Yes, those are all possibilities.

I do think you do have to do some very inventive ret-conning, but it’s not impossible.

While it would make sense for the most capable of the superfolk to be revived first to deal with any emergency, it would not make sense for the most important to be revived first only to walk into slaughter.

I’d love to see exactly how it’s handled in the novelization. The guy who does those is very good.

1069.

1073. Lt. Bailey - May 20, 2013

Thsi film has restored my faith.

While a lot fo folks will say its a rehash of TWOK or whatever, it did was it was supposed to do- entertain us! This is what I expect out of a ST film and I am a die hard TOS fan. Although I cannot understand if Kirk and McCoy were on such a primative (red) plant, why did the ENTERPRISE have to hide underwater? These people did not have radar or telescopes so why underwater other than to create an effect we have no seen before.

But well done JJ, and Robert & Alex, etc for the writing. Loved the plot twists and thank you for getting Mr Nimoy once again.

1074. Ahmed - May 20, 2013

@ 1067. Andrew – May 20, 2013

“Star Trek 2: Waste of Khan”

lol, I like that title, very fitting :)

1075. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1068. Phil,
” If Jim Kirk is thoroughly irradiated, he’s not dying, he’s dead. The magic blood isn’t resuscitating him, it’s having to remove and replace burned tissue and restore function to disabled organs.”

Good point, I had not thought of it this way. — Scotty: “He’s dead already”.

The same is surely true of brain tissue as well. The question is, what if any of the encoded neurons possessing the memories and essence of who we are, are preserved? While I accept a certain amount of dead tissue replacement, how does it replace cooked brain cells and keep the original encoding and neural relationships?

1076. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 20, 2013

1071. Phil

You got that right.

1077. Yanks - May 20, 2013

OK, I was going to blab a complete review but I won’t.

In short, the movie was outstanding and vaulting itself over all other trek movies until the TWoK reversal and Spock loosing and and yelling “Khan!!”.

What is the name of all that is good in the world make you guys think that was or could be viewed as good or appropriate?

I mean come-on… really? 4 years and all you guys could come up with was an ill-convieved rip-off reversal of Star Trek movies’ highest pinicale?

Spock’s death the TWoK was epic because his actions were in character and Kirk lost his friend, shipmate, confidant. A relationship developed over years of service together.

Kirks death (not to take away from Pine’s acting chops) does not work because Spocks epiphany of why Kirk broke the prime directive and saved him in no way can even hope to come close to the loss that Kirk felt in TWoK. .. .AND … Spocks weaping followed by a totally emotional out of control “KHHHHHANNNN!!” is completely out of character in either timeline. Hell, Spock didn’t even cry and shout out when he lost his mother and his home planet. He logically came to the conclusion that he was “emotionally comprimised”. We are supposed to accept that Kirks death exceeds that?

I really do want to know how this ending was conceived/arrived at etc. Please, someone tell me that I’m wrong and why. Bob, please enlighten me.

If I’m wrong, I will gladly re-evaluate.

Very powerful movie up until the end, great storyline, acting, action, etc. On track to be the franchises’ finest!

So very frustrated with the lack of origionality.

Just sad.

1078. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 20, 2013

1071. Phil

Sorry, Phil.

Still stewing at how stupid this $185 million dollar Trek was.

No. Star Trek 2 and STMP still are good pics in my opinion. Hell, I’ll even include ST III.

1079. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1077. Spock is upset because he and Kirk had become intimate…

1080. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1076. Well, at least you are consistent….

1081. TrekMadeMeWonder - May 20, 2013

Hey, Writers!

Just because you open an airlock 100 meters awaw in space doesnt mean the whole ship is going to be instantly sucked out into space.

That scene with Scotty was just abismal. He should have been musch closer to the airlock for the suction to be sooo great.

Another lame sci-fy-like plot device.

1082. Jefferies Tuber - May 20, 2013

The underwhelming domestic numbers were inevitable, just as soon as the marketing materials were released. It’s a catastrophic error to presume that science fiction and special effects fans will show up, then market the film with thoroughly generic, pathetic action-character posters featuring non movie stars. Just once I’d like to see a science fiction/Star Trek film marketed by people who actually consume and obsess over the genre.

The fish stinks from the head, though, as JJ’s dislike of Star Trek’s traditional pacing caused him to cut nearly every back story and dialog that couldn’t be spit out in 2sec. I’m amazed that he skipped the glamor shots of the refit at the end–something that 99.9% of fans love from TMP, TWOK and TSFS.

But back to the point: Paramount, you may think you can take the geeks for granted and carpet bomb non-fans with marketing that targets women and … Well, I don’t know who that marketing campaign was for. JJ’s so consumed with his mystery box thesis that he didn’t give us one new angle of the 2009 Enterprise, a glamor pass of the refit, any new Federation ships, one square shot of the Klingon Tranformer of Prey… And nary a single shot of the Vengeance that reveals its innovative and not half bad design. I can’t cuss on this board, but screw the mystery box, screw the lightning fast edit and screw JJ’s ADHD. It amazing how much time there is in TWOK for characters to walk, talk, act and scenes to play out with white noise and dramatic tension.

I loved this movie, but I no longer like JJ as a director. Whoever passed out the JJ IS THE GREATEST DIRECTOR Kool-Aid on set in 2009 did a great job. The cultish devotion to JJ is overwhelming. That movie is a 97/100 in my book, but the frenetic edit of STID and embarrassed-to-sell-science fiction marketing campaign left me lukewarm.

p.s. REGARDING HENRY is an embarrassing POS.

1083. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

#1066 – So giving someone a blood transfusion to save their life is not the result of “blood letting”? Nothing dumb about that…

@Boborci – how seriously radiated was Jim Kirk?

Some people noted that Kirk was not burned in the way that prime Spock was, however this is because burning is caused by a different form of radiation. However, Kirk’s skin became grey and jaundiced looking, referencing serious liver damage. It is possible that Dr McCoy may have given Kirk a liver/spleen transplant, along with the blood transfusions, to kickstart his body functions…

Phil – Bear in mind, this is also, presumably, more advanced 23rd century medicine coming into play here as well. The blood does not resuscitate. It can help bring about the regeneration of tissue at a molecular(?), cellular level. Dr McCoy tells Jim Kirk that he had been in a sort of comatose state for a full fortnight and that it took a lot of transfusions etc to bring him back…

This confirms that, although Khan’s blood may have special “magical” properties, it is not necessarily a cure-all, or can just magically bring everyone/anyone back to life. I don’t know where some audiences get the idea that this blood can be or do all.

1084. Cap'n Calhoun - May 20, 2013

@boborci

All I ask is that if Star Trek continues to explore a different reality, Kirk needs to call a Romulan commander his friend. Preferably one played by Ben Cross.

1085. dswynne - May 20, 2013

I think people who are continuing their hate for JJ-Trek are just dumb. They can’t deal with the notion that Star Trek has to be able to broaden its appeal to mass audience, and that traditional Star Trek cannot work in the same medium. In other words, they seem to be stuck on stupid in their inability to tell the difference between the movie medium and the television medium, and that translating one to the other can be difficult at times. Now, I’m not going to fault them on disliking JJ Abrams style of directing, since that is a matter of opinion. But when I complaints like “Where is the sense of wonder, a la space exploration?”, I am really astounded that they can’t seem to understand that most movie goers are not into sci-fi in general (see: the success of the Star Wars franchise). Sci-fi is too much of a niche genre to be successful on film, but can work in television. Personally, I do want to see Star Trek back on television, but I am happy for an interpretation of the series at the movies.

1086. dmduncan - May 20, 2013

Question: Did the explosion at Starfleet Archives destroy all historical records of the Botany Bay, including what Khan looks like? ;-)

1087. Josh C. - May 20, 2013

1069 – Khan was woken up first in Space Seed. Unless he woke up since Nero arrived and changed things and went back to sleep, there is no reason to expect that Khan wouldn’t still wake up first.

1081 – huh? how was “the whole ship .. instantly sucked out into space” in that scene?

1088. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

I just wish people would stop obsessing about TWOK.

This is an alternate universe, where Kirk can *die* instead of Spock and where Spock can scream Khan, because he can and needs to.

Vulcans can feel as much emotion as humans but they are taught to suppress them, which is what this alternate Spock tries to do as much as the prime Spock did. Given the different events occurring, it is just a bit harder this younger Spock to suppress and stoically carry on.

There is also such a thing as shock which can leave many a person incapable of feeling or expressing anything for a time… People say that he did not scream or cry when his mother died. No – but he did almost strangle a man to death because this man asserted that Spock did not love his mother…

Please – Pay attention – Think, Imagine, Feel…

1089. NuFan - May 20, 2013

dmduncan – February 10, 2013
Hey that guy at 44 is now “certain” it’s Khan. Priceless. Whatever doubt he used to have has now been erased by Eve’s denial.
I’m going to print out and frame this thread when it’s over.

1090. Ahmed - May 20, 2013

Abrams created alternate preview scene to hide Cumberbatch’s big secret

http://www.blastr.com/2013-5-20/abrams-created-alternate-preview-scene-hide-cumberbatchs-big-secret

Interesting how Abrams took great length to hide BC true identity . Wish if he spend that time on improving the story in the first place.

1091. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1086 dmduncan,

Who knows. Presumably Marcus would have deleted/changed any information on Khan (there never was any info on the BB), as there was always Memory Alpha, which I assume still exists in this timeline, as well as numerous redundancies and mirror databases as there are today. Harrison presumably targeted that facitilty for its secret Section 31 offices, not because of its archives.

@1087 Josh C.,
See my comments at 1028. But inre 1069 the programming changes would have been implemented prior to being put into stasis in 1996.

1092. RMM_07 - May 20, 2013

I, for one, hope this is the last film where Kirk has to have the captain’s chair taken away as punishment. We want Kirk in the gold shirt in the chair, not worrying that every move will see him busted back to private. :)

1093. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

#1081 – What? The ship was already in space…

“That scene with Scotty was just *abysmal. He should have been much closer to the airlock for the suction to be sooo great.”

How do you know? I believe that the size of the area is little, or no, importance when it comes to what gets sucked out, if not tied down or firmly bolted in place, which is why Scotty was unwinding the rope and hung on tight. That is probably why that rope was there, in case of such a circumstance. ALL the air get sucked out along with anything or anyone… until the airlock is closed and air pressure returns to normal.

*corrected your spelling mistake…such mistakes really annoy me in these instances.

1094. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1083. Again, keep in mind, I’ve not seen the movie yet…

Actually, grey would indicate circulatory failure, which would also be consistent with shock, and probably severe internal radiation burns, both fatal…

Yeah, I did consider that 23rd century medicine would have made some advances. I’d expect inoculations to immediately treat radiation poisoning, advanced life support, and DNA/Stem Cell technology to allow for the rapid cloning of replacement organs. If a medical professional has cause to believe for a positive outcome, life support will continue. If not, if Dr. McCoy announced “he’s dead, Spock’, he’s announced that life support has ended. Then he’s dead. If the Harrison blood is a giver of life, all you would need are a few cells to expose it two, and some decent cloning technology…or a transporter. Either way, it’s the fountain of youth…and a cheap plot device.

1095. Aurore - May 20, 2013

DamOn has something to say, people :

“Why is Alice Eve in her underwear, gratuitously and unnecessarily, without any real effort made as to why in God’s name she would undress in that circumstance? Well there’s a very good answer for that. But I’m not telling you what it is. Because… uh… MYSTERY?

As for our friend Mr. Harrison (I am still uncomfortable even typing his true identity, so conditioned I have become to not do so), yes — there was a fair amount of back and forth as to whether to take on such an iconic character. But it was never really a ‘Should we or shouldn’t we?’ as much as it was ‘We really have to do this but if we don’t get it right people are going to kill us.’”

(Link if authorized here) :

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1707650/star-trek-into-darkness-spoiler-special-burning-questions-answered.jhtml

1096. @wikiwackywoo - May 20, 2013

@1085 >>Sci-fi is too much of a niche genre to be successful on film<<
Gee in what universe do you watch movies in?

Transformers, Robocop, Bladerunner, Alien(s), Avatar, Back to the Future (ok, ok), XMen, Total Recall, District 9 .. When I was little I saw The Day the Earth Stood Still and that locked me in.

1097. Curious Cadet - May 20, 2013

@1094 Phil,
“and a cheap plot device.”

Better than sticking him the transporter and using his last known pattern to restore his body as was done sooooooo many times under Berman’s tenure …

I can’t wait to see your thoughts after you see the movie …

1098. Mike C. - May 20, 2013

I loved it. I still don’t buy BC as Khan, but he was fantastic and had so much more to work with than EBana.

Loved Section 31.

Loved how the mission ship to Kronos had elements of the DS9 Defiant.

Loved just about everything except Chekov. Don’t like that portrayal one bit. I was really excited when he put a red shirt on.

1099. Aurore - May 20, 2013

Regarding the link I posted @ 1095.

In the e-mails, there is apparently no mention of the fact that Khan is not Indian anymore, now ( when Damon Lindelof says “such an iconic character”, he meant Khan Noonien Singh, not “any other ‘Khan’”, I presume).

And, dmduncan, I must say that I was wrong in thinking that Damon Lindelof loved The wrath of Khan so much that he would not go anywhere near this character in the sequel…

He loved it so much that he obviously went “there” with his colleagues, and Mr. Abrams…

1100. Commodore Adams - May 20, 2013

Not sure if it has been talked about in the movie, the moon which almost looks like it has smashed into Qo’nos, is that Praxis? In TUC it’s never really clear if Praxis is a moon of Qo’nos or in another system, it’s only mentioned as “a Klingon moon” or “the Klingon moon”. Star charts tell us it’s another system, Star Trek online and some novels tell us it is Qo’nos’ moon. When watching that brief scene I was thinking “is that praxis?” Interesting choice if so.

1101. Craiger - May 20, 2013

Just curious if Khan could take out that whole Klingon platoon by himself how come he couldn’t overpower Admiral Marcus and his crew awake his crew and steal Admiral Marcus’ ship?

1102. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

Phil – why are you here commenting on a film you have not seen? It is especially off when you call it out by writing “cheap plot device” and so on.

Aurore – I call this (Cumberbatch) Khan – Harrison/Khan. I don’t believe this Khan is the actual Khan Noonien Singh. This one did not say as he was killing Marcus – “I spit at thee…”

There are 72 cryotubes and only one of them was opened…

Re Damon Lindelof comment -
Why is it so hard for actors to remove their clothes, presumably leaving their underwear ON and why is so horrible and demeaning? Was it as horrible and demeaning for Alice Eve to be seen in her underwear?
Either Damon is joking or these people need to get a grip…Duh

1103. Basement Blogger - May 20, 2013

@ 1089

I stood by my conclusion that Benedict Cumberbatch was Khan. I may have said that I could be wrong but never withdrew my conclusion. For using the evidence available, (search for Hispanic actor, BC’s superhuman strength, etc.) Red Dead Ryan, MJ and myself took a great deal of abuse. Those that went after us were Montreal Paul, Dmduncan, Jack and Dean-O to name a few. Dean-O called me an idiot. Some questioned our intelligence and logic. I would defend Anthony’s sources and his sources were called into question without any evidence.

As for the denial from actors, remember this. Naomie Harris denied she was Moneypenny in Skyfall. Marion Cotillard denied she was Talia Al Ghul or Ras’ daughter. So if the evidence points one direction and the actors say something else, take the actors comments with a grain of salt. And by the way the Trek actors had plausible deniability. BC was John Harrison who turned out to be Khan.

Did I miss anything? Yep. Guessed and I mean it was guessing that Peter Weller was Paxton or his relative from Enterprise. But I did get one thing right about his character. Here’s what I got right. (no links because of the filter.)

1. Figured out Peter Weller’s role in the movie. I predicted he would unleash or defrost Khan. (My blog December 5, 2011; .)

2. Alice Eve is Carol Marcus. ( I deduced that on July 15, 2012. My blog.)

3. Of course, I’ve argued my conclusions many times that BC was Khan. Oh by the way, just because I deduced he was Khan doesn’t mean I thought it was a good idea. On the contrary, been there and done that . That being said, STID turned out to be pretty good. I gave the movie an A.

1104. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 20, 2013

#1101 – I don’t think that Khan did take out the Klingon platoon by himself. He had help from Kirk, Spock and Uhura.

1105. Craiger - May 20, 2013

Also could the have done the story if he was just John Harrison and not Khan?

1106. drapera - May 20, 2013

FUNNY BIT: Admiral Marcus walked right by a model of the “Top Secret” ship being built while talking to Kirk and Spock about getting Harrison. Should a Top Secret ship be displayed out in the open like that? He did tell the duo that Section 31 exists…but not the ship.

I do want the Hot Wheels version of this, BTW.

Movie was good for the first 2/3…lacked originality in the final 1/3.
This was SPECTACULAR in IMAX 3D. I never thought I would say this, but the Enterprise looks awesome “rising up out of the ocean”.

NOTE: It sure would have been funny if the natives had seen Spock…a drawing of a pointy-eared “God” would have been twice as poignant as the Enterprise “God” we got. NICE dissolve shot though going from the native drawing into the Enterprise in space.

1107. Tombot3000 - May 20, 2013

Okay, I’ll make this pretty short, as I need to sleep, and there are already a gazillion posts here. I’ll admit it- I liked it a hell of a lot more than Star Trek 2009. There was still a lot of stupid stuff, but it zips by so quick, sometimes, I thought the editor was on speed. Clearly Lucas liked the many echoes of Revenge Of The Sith, especially the ship crashing physics. And this is one mighty sealer of a deal for the Wars resume! Honestly, if you accept Pine and company as alternate versions of the Prime cast, then you really shouldn’t have problem with Cumberbatch Khan. Honestly, I’d wish they’d just played it a little cooler with Khan, less echoing(more appeal for Lucas though! LOL!), perhaps just had him as a new/different guy altogether- would of cut out a lot of silliness, and kept me from stifling a manic giggle during Spock’s outburst.

1108. RBanks - May 20, 2013

Just saw the film finally! It was a thoroughly enjoyable 2 hours of excellent entertainment. Loved it.

I thought Cumberbatch brought a new and very twisted edge to this version of the Khan character. I thought he did great.

And Chris Pine really knocked it out of the park. His reaction when Pike was killed-very well done.

Being a modeler, I liked the sweeping shot of the Admiral Marcus model collection. I think I’ll have to build the NX-01 kit I recently purchased now.

And there was plenty of humor. I loved the Chekov Red-Shirt gag.

Overall, it’s a great movie!

1109. Disinvited - May 20, 2013

#996. Curious Cadet – May 20, 2013

“throw their own child under the train” is far in excess of the benign neglect of Paramount’s past treatment of Trek to which I was alluding a return in deprioritizing it. I agree with your observation that the threshold’s been crossed with IM3 where Paramount is now actually stoking Trek’s embers. But it may too little too late.

You seem to accept Mad Mann’s observations. I can confirm that this time around here in the US, there was an extreme lack of Paramount’s Trek logo on my waffles, cereals, fast food eateries, etc.

Yes, there are trailers all over television and theaters but they really aren’t clear what kind of movie goer Paramount is trying to push STID to? Maybe after editing in quotes from the positive reviews this will gel but their window to get it out and the fuse lit is very small.

Only yesterday did I become aware of Paramount trying to match Disney’s “most beautiful woman of the year” buzz.

#1015. Curious Cadet – May 20, 2013

Don’t forget Khan ruled a large swath of the Earth. He, no doubt, was quite aware of controlling his media presentation and most likely put the most glowing PR face in his own time as well as Kirk’s. Not to mention the movie seems to clearly establish Khan’s been a part of SF for some time so he’s had ample time to use Section 31′s resources to obliterate himself from the Enterprise crew’s Academy curricula on his own, and he and Marcus could have jointly worked on it, as well.

1110. Aurore - May 20, 2013

“….just because I deduced he was Khan….”
_______

Bernie.

With all due respect, many people “deduced” that the sequel would/could be about Khan…in 2009.

That is how I realized, amongst other things, that to some fans, online at least, he was the equivalent of The Joker for this franchise.

I personally could NOT believe it….

:)

1111. Phil - May 20, 2013

@1102. Really? Last I’ve checked it’s an open forum, and I’ve been pretty up front about the spoilers I’ve read and that I’ve not seen the movie yet. It’s perfectly valid to form an opinion based on this very public information…

1112. Anthony Pascale - May 20, 2013

weekend is over and we are over 1000 so prepare for new open thread

1113. RBanks - May 20, 2013

In addition to my above comments, I would also like to thank those involved in the making of this film.

And thank you Bob Orci for taking the time to interact with the fans here.

Not long ago, I experienced what turned out to be the most tragic and traumatic event in my life. Finding an escape, even for just a few minutes, can be a difficult and elusive thing to find.

From the point where Kirk stuns their “ride”, to the closing credits, I escaped completely into the world depicted in this film. I laughed real laughs and felt truly excited for the first time in a very long time. I needed this.

To JJ, Bob and company, again, Thank You.

1114. Basement Blogger - May 20, 2013

@ 1110

Hey Aurore,

To me there was not enough evidence to deduce that the main villain would be Khan in 2009. What we had was DVD commentary about a proposed scene involving the Botany Bay. I would not reach the Khan conclusion with just that. After all, they could change their minds on who was going to be the antagonist.

But once I saw who they wanted to cast that being a Hispanic actor it started to become clear.. Then saw the video of BC beating the daylights out of Spock showing the guy was superhuman, BC worked out, dyed his hair black ,r etc. then I reached the conclusion BC was Khan. Once Bob Orci said he would also be canon cemented my deduction. Of course, this sites April 2012 story supported my conclusion and I used that as confirmation that BC was Khan. Anthony Pascale is very careful on what he reports. By the way, I think he was correct in all aspects of the story. Khan. Klingons. Leonard Nimoy.

I figured that since they weren’t remaking Space Seed that someone had to defrost Khan. I thought it was going to be Peter Weller. I thought his Paxton from Enterprise would use Khan to evict the aliens from earth. Got that point wrong but got the point that he was the guy that unleashes Khan.

As far as Alice Eve, once Bob Orci said she was canon it became clear based on the evidence that she was Carol Marcus. First, she’s blond like Marcus. She could be Nurse Chapel since she watched every TOS show for research. Praise to Eve for doing that, it’s just like Harve Bennett watching Star Trek to understand it. But she focused on Kirk for some reason. That’s looking for motivation for a relationship. And since I thought Khan was in the fold, a relationship with Kirk pointed to Carol Marcus.

1115. Disinvited - May 20, 2013

#1094. Phil – May 20, 2013

Fountain of something, yes. Youth? Remember in TWOK when he caught up to Kirk, Khan displayed quite similar signs of aging: gray hair, faded skin pigmentation, etc.

It is established McCoy had to process the K-sera; so maybe the healing properties for others is something even Khan, himself, wasn’t aware of until he did some research on his own in the future. And it seems clear you can’t just straight transfuse Khan’s blood into anyone to get a cure.

Maybe McCoy’s processing does activate your fountain but we won’t know until he uses it on someone older.

1116. Karen - May 20, 2013

@1102 Rose

Problem is, I think, that the production team of the film is a testosterone chamber. And while this hasn’t completely undermined the film – Uhura is great – they just can’t seem to help themselves re: the sexism. The underwear moment was entirely gratuitous, pandering to the male gaze. In the first film, Uhura was getting changed in her own quarters. Kirk was hiding. Him seeing her in underwear was contextually valid. This time it wasn’t. There was no excuse. And the fact that Kirk looked after she asked him to turn round was a complete violation of her privacy. It turned him into a nasty little perv, and that’s a shame. Because he can horn dog it as much as the producing team wants. But there is a line and that moment crossed it and it has nothing to do with ‘oh but she’s hot and any guy’s going to want to see a hot babe in her scanties!’ That’s just excusing the bad behaviour. That’s saying it’s okay to ignore her request. She said, please turn around. He ignored that request. It was a skeevy move and it sent the message, yet again, that a woman is not to be taken seriously, that she can be safely ignored, that what the guy wants is more important than what the woman wants. And that she’s supposed to think it’s cute and funny and endearing.

Well, guess what? It’s not.

The scene really disappoints me. Abrams and co. should be better than that.

1117. Anthony Pascale - May 20, 2013

Continue the conversation here:
http://trekmovie.com/?p=35581

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