JJ Abrams Reveals ‘Shower of Evil’ Star Trek Into Darkness Deleted Cumberbatch Scene | TrekMovie.com
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JJ Abrams Reveals ‘Shower of Evil’ Star Trek Into Darkness Deleted Cumberbatch Scene May 23, 2013

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

This week has seen the final stop of the Star Trek Into Darkness celebrity talk show tour with Alice Eve and JJ Abrams appearing on Conan on Tuesday and Wednesday respectively. And last night’s Abrams appearance including his revealing of a bit of a deleted scene of Benedict Cumberbatch’s "shower of evil." Watch it below


JJ Reveals bit of deleted ‘Shower of Evil’

Benedict Cumberbatch has talked about how there was a scene that both he and his personal trainer were sorry to see cut from the film. On Conan last night Into Darkness director JJ Abrams revealed a bit of the scene while talking about the controversy over Alice Eve’s undies scene.

JJ talked about how he likes to put easter eggs into his movies.

And here is a bit more on the TBS site from JJ’s time with Conan where he talks about visiting the set of Downton Abbey.


Alice Eve talks about being an ‘exobitionist ‘ + does JJ Abrams impression on Conan

And for her Tuesday appearance, actress Alice Eve talks about being an exobitionist when she was a little girl.

And here is an extra bit only available on the TBS site wher Alice shows off her JJ Abrams impersonation.



1. Melllvar - May 23, 2013

Gosh darn, looks like the naughty schoolgirl and showering augment cannot be seen from Australia.

Enjoy the sauce, America :)

2. Melllvar - May 23, 2013

I feel just like Chekov when Kirk told him to put on a red shirt

3. FSJMusicMan - May 23, 2013

Alice’s outfit there’s more eyecandyish than the scene was!

4. yeah i said it - May 23, 2013

Alice Eve is turning into the Chase Masterson of the JJ verse…she gets into every shot on the publicity tour….she is a co-star, and will be forgettable to anyone who does not know Star Trek lore. I m not saying she is not a nice person…but she just seems to photo bomb everything.

5. KirksLove - May 23, 2013


For the world outside the US.
You’re welcome.

6. Clinton - May 23, 2013

Was it put in for sex appeal? Of course. Otherwise it would not be in the trailers. Is it a tempest in a teapot? I think so.

In the context of the film, Alice’s character (spoiler free) tells Kirk to turn around, but doesn’t actually say why, if I recall correctly. After a beat, he turns. She tells him to turn back around, and he does.

Is it sexist? Not sure. Is showing Pine without a shirt sexist? Would the shot of Benedict have been sexist? Is the shot of Pepper Pots in “Iron Man 3″ in similar clothing sexist? Or Slave Leia (which now seems to be a staples of costumes)?

While I think we could have done without any of the shots, I was reminded of classic Trek, when they would show lots of skin, including Kirk getting his shirt off whenever possible. Sex sells. So, there is that.

7. AyanEva - May 23, 2013

Well… my day is complete. This is even better than when Mycroft stepped on Sherlock’s sheet. :D

WHY WAS THIS CUT FROM THE FILM? ;_; Worst editing decision ever.

8. Jeyl - May 23, 2013

Is JJ seriously sticking to that “We see Kirk in his underwear so it’s fair trade off” excuse? I seem to recall that scene in the movie featuring two alien girls with CGI tails wearing nothing but underwear. And when Kirk got out of bed, the camera wasn’t focused on him, it was focused on the alien girls. That does not balance things out. Either JJ Abrams sucks at math or he seriously thinks that exploiting women like this is something that Star Trek should “honor”.

Frankly, I would rather have this “equal” business be put to better use than how much skin each gender shows.

9. DP McGuire - May 23, 2013

She is the hottest thing to hit Star Trek in ages

10. Spock Jr. - May 23, 2013

I’m straight – but BC in the shower! I’m… suddenly, well… shall we say… confused.

11. JUSTOMTAV - May 23, 2013

Lol shut up there was half naked bimbos in TOS ever other episode, and kirk slapped them in the face half the time.

12. RenderedToast - May 23, 2013

Looks like she’s still a bit of an exhibitionist. Nice shirt Alice.

13. somethoughts - May 23, 2013

Dam JJ why did u cut that scene lol

14. Jeyl - May 23, 2013


That’s what bothers me. The filmmakers justify their treatment of the female characters as a way of honoring the original series. That’s a bad direction to take.

15. game changers - May 23, 2013

That scene would have been gratuitous. Glad they cut it.

16. Spock Jr. - May 23, 2013

TOS was bright, colorful and sexy – it was fun, adventure! New Trek is the same, that’s the point! :D

It’s this or Picard sitting at a boardroom table discussing the problem! :(

More sexy-Trek, please. Engage!

17. Al - May 23, 2013

Not the set – Highclere Castle is a real castle

18. somethoughts - May 23, 2013

Kayla did u like shower of evil?

19. Trekker5 - May 23, 2013

Ah the shower of evil! Wish it had made it to the big screen! :D But maybe it will be on the DVD.

20. TrinaInUS - May 23, 2013

I, er, *like* the shower scene! It had better be on the DVD. BTW, if the shower of evil hadn’t been deleted, I could view the Carol Marcus changing scene as fair play. ;)

21. Sybok's Secret Brother - May 23, 2013

Chase is cool, you should get to know her.
They are actors trying to keep themselves in the spotlight, ‘cuz that’s what we do! It’s our version of marketing and you HAVE to keep your face out there.
It’s our JOB.

22. Mad Mann - May 23, 2013

Holy Boob-age, Alice!

23. David Oakes - May 23, 2013

The fangirl comments in the You Tube are particularly hilarious.

24. Lt. Bailey - May 23, 2013

We all just have to wait until the special edition/directors cut DVD/Blu-Ray comes out in OCT and these deleted scenes will be on the disc(s).

Alice sure can melt butter when its placed next to her but I am quite sure some women feel the same about Pine so whats the big deal if they strip down as it seems that every movie must have such a scene nowadays.

I have met and spoken with Chase at all the Vegas Cons since 2008. I have her CDs which I enjoy a lot and I am trying to get her some airplay time on a local internet station that plays the standards as she sings. She is really a nice, great person and always friendly to my wife and I.

25. Admiral Kent - May 23, 2013

Sheesh…it’s not like they’re sitting around rubbing decontamination gel over each others’ nearly nude bodies.

26. NCC-73515 - May 23, 2013

Ah, so that’s where the Amok Time music comes in XD
But the FSNP with only 3 fingers is very weird. :p

27. Anonymous Coward - May 23, 2013

I think that dress shows more than her shot in ST.

Look, Dame Helen Mirren has shown more skin in more movies than Alice Eve ever will, but Mirren is a truly great actress and Eve will likely never in an Oscar.

In this business it’s easy to be more remembered for your boobs than your acting ability (male or female). You just have to decide which is your greater asset and how best to deploy your assets at any one time.

28. Emery - May 23, 2013

Holy cow..Alice Eve is beyond gorgeous. Hottest chick I’ve ever seen in Trek. I will admit the underwear scene was unnecessary, but I can’t deny her body was out of this world.

Also Cumberbatch isn’t nearly as scrawny as I thought he would be lol

29. Frederick - May 23, 2013

There had to be some inkling of Kirk’s attraction to her, and that scene underlined it, I think. A typical Kirk moment. We know they have a son together (in the other timeline anyway.)

30. David - May 23, 2013

@ 25 Touche. Enterprise wasn’t exactly subtle in that way….

31. PEB - May 23, 2013

Cumberbatch…shower….my day is complete

32. STfanboy - May 23, 2013

@10 Spock Jr- OMG That made my day. Well done sir.

33. Nony - May 23, 2013

Losing respect for JJ by the minute. He just doesn’t get it.

34. Gorn Captain - May 23, 2013

@11 Citation needed on Kirk slapping any woman in any TOS episode, and the context. And Janice Lester in Kirk’s body does not count! ;)

35. Phil - May 23, 2013

Spot on observations – and with JJ’s comments I’m under the impression they still don’t get it. I don’t hear anyone objecting on the grounds of being a prude, but based on context. If the movie established some basis for a relationship between the two, then a scene where they are intimate would have been appropriate. What was shown was a commanding officer sneaking a peek at a subordinate.

Context for this is still almost daily news. Incidents in India, sexual assaults in western militaries, issues with the glass ceiling all abound, and hardly fall under the definition of western ‘social constructs’. When a woman can ride the subway in Mumbai without being groped, drive in the Middle East, not be female circumcised on the African continent at birth, or freely earn promotion and equal pay in the western world, only then will we have obtained the society envisioned in Trek. That world would not have any objection to admiring beauty, just in proper context.

36. NCC-3917 - May 23, 2013

Does anybody remember the record “Inside Star Trek” which featured a bunch of interviews and speeches by Gene. “You cannot write in science fiction without realizing that sexual equality is as basic as any other kind of equality. This does not mean that in future pictures I will ever stop using women as sex objects, as I will not, but to be fair we have always used and will be continuing to use males as sex objects, too.”

37. mr.universe - May 23, 2013

you know what???
As long as kirk and caral marcus did´nt had SEX on-screen, and fucked and fucked even more in five scenes in the movie I don´t care wheather she showed her hottiness, because if she did´nt we would probadly complain abot that too..

38. Yoda tha God - May 23, 2013

Okay My beautiful feminists trekkie sisters, all things being equal where is your outrage? Did you leave it in the bar on Nimbus III?

39. Punkspocker - May 23, 2013

Benedict…wet…I am emotionally compromised…done!

40. VictoriaGrey - May 23, 2013

WELL! After that clip of BC in the shower, I have to take a shower…. most likely for different reasons.

41. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 23, 2013

We saw less of Kirk’s unclothed body than we did of Carol Marcus’s body. What’s more, we never even learned what two cat ladies’ names were. You should at least be told a first name of any sexual partner. That’s just good manners.

Supreme Court – yes, you are being a bit dismissive and insensitive towards the Female.

Unfortunately, others (who call themselves “feminists”) are also being that way as well, in a different way though, perhaps in an even more insidious way – strange though it may seem.

42. al - May 23, 2013

uh…so the straight guys got Alice Eve in her undies…and the gay guys got…nothing…well…the lesbians certainly loved Alice eve. I see great potential for her in more movies where they want her to do some topless scenes. I’ll pay for that. Looks like she’s got some nice boobs.

43. Aix - May 23, 2013

“Alice in Wonderba” and “Cumbershower of Evil”


I think JJ should shut-up about it. Lindelof addressed it already via Twitter. They’re just making it worse now. I also hope Paramount has given advice to the actors to not comment about the issues at all and just let if fizzle. Can you imagine if one of them openly criticizes the decisions made in the film? Gonna be messy and will just give Trek a bad rep.

44. Iva - May 23, 2013

@ 4. yeah i said it – May 23, 2013

Alice Eve is turning into the Chase Masterson of the JJ verse…she gets into every shot on the publicity tour….she is a co-star, and will be forgettable to anyone who does not know Star Trek lore. I m not saying she is not a nice person…but she just seems to photo bomb everything.””””””””””””””””””””””””””””

If you replaced that name with Zoe Saldana you would be 100% right.

45. somethoughts - May 23, 2013

Dam I swear I am straight but that shower scene is so delicious lol

46. somethoughts - May 23, 2013


You forgot war crimes, black ops, insidious deals with aliens also, why just the focus on undies? There are many more world wide issues on hand, you guys raised by nuns?

47. Snugglepuff - May 23, 2013

Can Alice wear that outfit in the next movie!?

48. Russell Meyers - May 23, 2013

34. I believe he hits Shana in Gamesters

49. Borjy - May 23, 2013

You think your shower is safe… it’s an illusion.

50. LizardGirl - May 23, 2013

If they’re going to show girls in their underwear (with a steady camera), then they need to show the guys in their underwear (with a steady camera). It’s only fair! ^_^

51. Captain, USS Northstar - May 23, 2013

Wow! Alice Eve – va va va voom! Perhaps they can make that outfit Starfleet regulation?

She must have just bought those shoes, however — I think one had a tag still stuck to the bottom.

I hope she has a larger role in the next film! Make it so!

52. More Females..Not Just Scantily Clad Scenes -JoeTrekFan - May 23, 2013

It seems we’ll be seeing Alice Eve in the next movie. What we should see is more than one love interest…and please cast some exotic women. What was fun about TOS is just about every other episode, he would meet these gorgeous women wearing these exotic costumes. Even on a small tv budget, the women (alien or not) looked terrific. The movies should continue this and hopefully have scenes lasting more than just a few seconds.

I’m a bit miffed at the bald Black woman who was presumably the helmsman for a few scenes. Was she a Black Deltan? Nothing wrong with different colored alien women. The thing is she was so thick. Did they have to cast an Aunt Jemima-type? All right..this is an alternate time line and perhaps the Deltans in this universe are non-sexual and have pheromones that repel sexuality instead of induce it.

53. porthoses bitch - May 23, 2013

Has anyone spotted SLUSHO yet ?

54. somethoughts - May 23, 2013

I am Bettah at showering

55. Dswynne - May 23, 2013

Females, women, ladies…it seems hat your problem is always how guys react, rather than wanting equal representation when it comes to sexuality. It’s like you gals aren’t happy if we guys are being direct with our desires and physical needs. Sigh…

56. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 23, 2013

#50 – Exactly. The scene with Pine/Kirk in his underwear was short and we saw less of him that we did of Carol Marcus. I am a bit disappointed actually.

I wonder if this scene showed less of a bare Kirk because of how it was written and what the director decided to do?
Or –
Was it also because of what Chris Pine would or would not do? Was Chris being influenced by a girlfriend perhaps? Interesting, given what I believe this ex-girlfriend has recently done…

57. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 23, 2013

#53 – “I’m a bit miffed at the bald Black woman who was presumably the helmsman for a few scenes. Was she a Black Deltan? Nothing wrong with different colored alien women. The thing is she was so thick. Did they have to cast an Aunt Jemima-type?”

What does “so thick” mean in this context? What’s an Aunt Jemima-type?

58. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 23, 2013

Why was the Harrison shower scene cut?

Bit late showing it now, JJ Abrams. Now it is totally out of context. You seem to be behaving like some silly adolescent male, which we know you are not.

59. planetaryexile - May 23, 2013

I dont think they really care. It is just an excuse to get free publicity.

60. Mel - May 23, 2013

Lindelof talked about the shower scene before in the same exchange he talked about Carol’s underwear scene:


Q: “OK, down to the nitty gritty. I feel like I have to start with the biggest mystery/conversation that’s surrounded the film from the get go. Why is Alice Eve in her underwear at one point?”

Lindelof: “Why is Alice Eve in her underwear, gratuitously and unnecessarily, without any real effort made as to why in God’s name she would undress in that circumstance? Well there’s a very good answer for that. But I’m not telling you what it is. Because… uh… MYSTERY?”

Q: “Not to get too weird (too late?) but is it true there’s a shirtless scene of Benedict’s that didn’t make the final cut?”

Lindelof: “As for the shirtless scene… we scripted it, but I don’t think it ever got shot. You know why? Because getting actors to take their clothes off is DEMEANING AND HORRIBLE AND…


He kind of ridiculed the whole controversy about Carol’s underwear scene. I suspect Khan’s shower scene was cut, because it wasn’t really plot relevant. Not that Carol’s underwear scene was really relevant, but I guess they kept it for the trailers to entice male viewers.

61. porthoses bitch - May 23, 2013

Cumby in the shower blows away the Old Spice dude.

62. somethoughts - May 23, 2013

I bet people will see this film just to see what all the fuss is about and when they do they will think trek fans are weird lol

They will think we never saw a lovely lady in her undies before :(

63. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - May 23, 2013

@52. More Females..Not Just Scantily Clad Scenes -JoeTrekFan

Did you just criticise the way a female actor looked, just because she didn’t have you automatically drooling from the side of your mouth when you saw her?

So to sum up the view of some males here: ” …we don’t want more women on the show unless they’re really hot and are used only as eye-candy, and we certainly don’t want them getting screen time that takes away from the boys…”

Yep, sexism is alive and well in the 21st century. Hopefull, it won’t be so healthy by the 23rd, but I’m not optimistic.

64. Star Trek: Nemesis blows, is the point - May 23, 2013

How many people complained about Seven of Nine replacing Kes on Voyager? All that was, was a ploy to get male viewers.

Similarly, adding Worf to the cast of DS9 was a ploy to get more Trekkies into DS9 (Trekkies should have been more interested at the time, regardless.)

65. Mee - May 23, 2013

BC in the shower looks like Tom Hanks in the shower with a headache… Or maybe low on bran??

66. Vespasian - May 24, 2013

Why did Abrams & co react at all?

Carol Marcus in her undies.

The film’s got good reviews and good box office performance. I just think a lot of fanboys/fangirls are upset about the film’s success, so they worked themselves up about this stupid subject, i.e. vent their anger.

Uhura undressed in Star Trek 2009. Or what about the original series? I guess it’s suddenly not-so-forward-looking.

BTW, is this an American thing? Nobody got upset in my country. I guess we Europeans are morally downtrodden.

67. RedRevan - May 24, 2013

BC looked like he’s plotting something and is very pissed about being thrown in the shower. :D

68. KirksLove - May 24, 2013

BC is so beautiful… Look at that skin and those shoulders and pecs… And the piercing eyes..

69. jimgrant1701 - May 24, 2013

Two words for STIII: “Full Frontal” >:-)>

70. somethoughts - May 24, 2013


Indeed it is strange, people fear what they do not understand.

They like to project their beliefs onto others and judge people based on their value system, it is no wonder instead of playing peacekeepers they have to forcefully will their beliefs onto you, hence half the wars in the past 100 years.

71. Michael Hall - May 24, 2013

@ 11–

“Lol shut up there was half naked bimbos in TOS ever other episode, and kirk slapped them in the face half the time.”

Um, really? Not that I would deny TOS’ sexism, now freely admitted-to by just about anyone who actually worked on the show. It was a product of its time, after all. But it is really unreasonable to expect that a modern version would do better in that department?

That said, your comment really tests the limits of hyperdrive. No, bimbos didn’t appear in “every other episode,” nor did the good Captain make a regular habit of slapping anyone. Also, too, some punctuation going forward would be nice.

72. Crone - May 24, 2013

I’m way too old to enjoy that Shower of Evil as much as I do. Don’t tell anyone, ok?

73. Crone - May 24, 2013

@52 Aunt Jemima ? I thought she looked strong and intimidating and very cool.

74. I am not Herbert (retired) - May 24, 2013

…really starting to HATE JJ Abrams… he really IS a HACK… =(

75. Jovius the Romulan - May 24, 2013

52: If it was a thick, bald black guy you wouldn’t be complaining. Why must women be there to fit YOUR definition of beauty? You’d be surprised how many people find stocky women attractive. And given the positive response her and GATT5000 have gotten for rounding out the bridge crew in diversity, I don’t think as many people cared about it as you do.

As far as your “Aunt Jemima” comment, are you even… /remotely/ aware of how racist that sounded?

63: Spot on. Yet again, we see the typical male ego at work… “All women should be there for us to ogle. If not, they’re useless.” I just thought that she was cool. She had good screen presence and her shaved head made her unique among the female officers on the ship.

76. Jovius the Romulan - May 24, 2013

57: Apparently, anyone who isn’t model-thin.

77. Francomiranda - May 25, 2013

This puritanical nonsense drives me mad. Clothes are the unnatural thing. There’s nothing shameful about showing a beautiful body male or female, nor appreciating one. The day men and women stop buying clothes to show off or accentuate their bodies, make them feel good, stop having sex or relationships, or enjoying the opposite or same sex in a physical manner, then folk can start complaining.

In short, stop being such pathetic prudes.

Bet you all a million dollars folk moaning about Alice eve are just jealous that she looks a million times better than they do.

78. Curious Cadet - May 25, 2013

@42. al,
“uh…so the straight guys got Alice Eve in her undies…and the gay guys got…nothing…”

Didn’t the gay guys get a little Kirk with the pussy-cat scene?

That said, I think you are missing the point. When I saw this deleted scene I immediately though of Mr. Plinkett’s Red Letter Media review of ST09.

Given the nature of TOS three-way bro-mance, which occasionally includes Scotty, and Sulu running around without a shirt, Abrams arguably had to ‘straighten’ Star Trek out to make it more acceptable to modern and presumed homophobic audiences. Given the sexist comments I’ve seen from some guys about Alice Eve’s underwear scene, I’m starting to think Plinkett wasn’t far off.

If this Cumberbatch shower scene had stayed in the movie, I’m thinking a lot of guys might have left the theater feeling weird about themselves. One thing I’ve noticed is that Star Trek seems to go out of its way to appear 100% straight — there is very little that is gay friendly in the official franchise canon.

Part of me wonders if the studio doesn’t think Star Trek has enough general acceptance problems without also the appearance of being gay. Maybe these guys need to re-watch Top Gun. I’m thinking a gratuitous all male crew beach volleyball scene would be an interesting experiment for Star Trek.

79. Bill Lutz - May 26, 2013

Shower of Evil
Pretty much explains this travesty of a movie…..

80. HT - May 26, 2013

Do sonic showers not exist in this timeline?

81. D.P. - May 26, 2013

Too bad he didn’t have the confidence in the story line to carry the movie, and jettison the cheap, feeble, throw-it-in-to-make-sure-it-sells sex attempts. The underwear scene was, I can only say dumb, non-sexy and needless. The two women in bed may be every male stuck at age 14-years dream and appeal to some ego deficient, hipster seekers, but hey, kids in traditional families watch this too, and it again was senseless, needless, exploits women who may be manipulatable, and did nothing for the movie. It didn’t need it. The chemistry between Spock and Uhura is the level he should have stuck with for Kirk…too bad, it was cheap quality, but not enough to detract from the rest of the movie, which we did enjoy.

82. Jack - May 27, 2013

“exploits women who may be manipulatable”


83. Jack - May 27, 2013

PS. Had they shown Kirk’s butt — even for just a second, this movie would have made $42 million more. Price Waterhouse Coopers can confirm that.

84. KirksLove - May 27, 2013

$80 million more for Cumberbatch’s thighs in the shower, $100 million more for Cumberbatch’s butt. He has fantastic legs and a fantastic butt.

85. Keachick - rose pinenut - May 27, 2013

Yes I agree. We saw far too little of Kirk as he naturally is, without clothing.

I guess these actors are afraid they might be as “sexually objectified” as the females appear to be. Shame really, because it just shows them buying into imbalance and repressive sexist attitudes.

It’s weird because 30/40+ plus years ago, films and television showed partially disrobed men all the time and few gave it a second thought. People were more perturbed about seeing a bare-breasted female but now it has got so ridiculously repressive to the point where you have women in bras when they are in bed in the middle of sexual activity. It is just so affected, so off…I wasn’t aware that women could be so attached to their bras.

It seems that the constant wearing of bras may not be necessarily so good for breast muscle and tissue – may even cause breasts to drop more than they do naturally with age becoming problematical. Perhaps those 60’s women libbers who told women to burn their bras might have been on to something after all…

86. Suellen - May 27, 2013

I was not offended by the Carol Marcus scene just agree it made not sense in the context of the story. Again hate to compare cause TOS did exploit the sex appeal and Shatner did get his share of the action. Kirk’s share of the action was always relevant to the story.

I have no clue what JJ Abrams and the Supreme Court were thinking but the screen play was weak. Cumberpatch saved the movie but his parts were better written than Pine’s or Quintos.

If I was Pine and Quinto and I did a third movie I would demand script approval. This screen play left a lot to be desired.

87. JnZooer - May 27, 2013

I for one am quite glad that the shower scene got cut because the Starfleet Academy novels already established that this universe already has Sonic Showers. (Even though canon Trek only first showed a Sonic in TMP, allowing that 1701 no bloody A…etc. may have had water showers like NX-01 in the prime universe, there is no canon equivalency in Abrams Trek as of yet so only the non-canon books can be compared.)

88. RetroWarbird - May 27, 2013

Cumby’s pecs aren’t up to Montalban snuff!

I’ve been watching a fair bit of TOS since I saw Into Darkness, which I think is a fine, fun movie and I like how it’s briskly paced and takes a lot of Trek tech for granted to tell its story, in spite of flaws. I can dig Trek as spectacle – Trektacle – in theatres, building the momentum for a return to a more cerebral Trek TV.

But MAN did I just realize what a wasted opportunity it is in hindsight that Cumberbatch wasn’t cast as Spock two years ago. Guy is like a dead-ringer for Nimoy – body type, cheekbones, cadence and tenor of voice, beady eyes, close involvement with Bilbo Baggins …

I do like Zachary Quinto, but it hit me like a hammer.

89. Leatherman - May 28, 2013

@88… close involvement with Bilbo Baggins … LOL!!!!

90. Jovius the Romulan - May 29, 2013

87: Besides that those novels aren’t canon (and thankfully so) and besides which, who is saying that both aren’t available? Sonic showers sound boring and antiseptic compared to a refreshing stream of water.

91. Noropolis - June 2, 2013

Alice Eve with long hair looks a little like Elizabeth Shue.

92. QueenNyota - June 3, 2013

Post 52 “I’m a bit miffed at the bald Black woman who was presumably the helmsman for a few scenes. Was she a Black Deltan? Nothing wrong with different colored alien women. The thing is she was so thick. Did they have to cast an Aunt Jemima-type? All right..this is an alternate time line and perhaps the Deltans in this universe are non-sexual and have pheromones that repel sexuality instead of induce it.”

What a load of racist rubbish. In the 23rd century hopefully humankind will be wil pass your crap. That was the Star Trek creator’s attitude. When asked by the idiot press, will there be bald men in the 23rd century (Captain Picard) his reponse was in the 23rd century being bald won’t be an issue. If Star Trek is going to attract ignorant red neck fools like you then I hope it dies quickly.

93. QueenNyota - June 3, 2013

The Carol MArcus in her underwear scene – huge mistake and totally irrelevant to the plot. It would work better if both Marcus and Kirk were getting undressed at the same time ogling each other.

94. Jovius the Romulan - June 3, 2013

QueenNyota: Agreed on both points.

I thought Lt. Darwin (as she’s been identified now) was pretty cool, even if she only got a couple of lines.

The underwear scene, upon rewatching it this weekend, wasn’t quite as bad as I remembered, but it still had Kirk reduced to a peeping Tom for the sake of a few seconds of fanservice. (Which they eagerly inserted into the trailers.) They could have at least shot her from the waist up or had her turned around. In situations where I’ve had to undress in the same room as someone else, I instinctively face away from other people and I’m pretty sure most do the same.

95. Factchecker - June 3, 2013

I seem to recall, prior to the film’s release, all the cast and crew insisting the villain was not Khan.

Oh, that’s right…..he’s John Harrison….how easily we forget.

96. Keachick - rose pinenut - June 3, 2013

#94 – Instinctively face away from other people while undressing?

Why? Is there something inherently bad about undressing or being undressed? Not instinct! Just conditioning…

Kirk deemed a peeping tom? No, he was NOT a peeping tom. He was a normal, healthy human being taken aback at what he saw and continued to look, take in… Had Carol Marcus turned around? Why? So people could then accuse him of eyeing her arse?

You people scare me, creep me out a bit…:(

97. Jovius the Romulan - June 3, 2013

Wow, Keachick. I have no idea why you’re attacking me all the sudden given we used to respectfully disagree.

So now I scare you and creep you out because of my reasonable observation and opinion. I don’t even know what to say to that now. I can see why Trekkiegal gets so frustrated with you. Thanks for playing!

98. Phil - June 4, 2013

@97. You said something bad about ‘her’ Pine-Kirk. That’s all it takes…

99. Keachick - rose pinenut - June 5, 2013

Phil – cut it out. This has nothing to do ‘my’ Pine-Kirk, especially since I never mentioned Chris Pine’s name at all. It is about how people perceive the behaviour of others and what is deemed to be instinctive behaviour.

I do not think your and other people’s observations re Kirk being a peeping tom are reasonable and I have already explained why. It is a shame you can’t see why I might get just as frustrated with Trekkiegal.

What playing was I supposed to be engaged in?

100. Phil - June 5, 2013

@100. Actually, I can understand why you are frustrated. You are on the wrong side of the argument, and no matter what way you spin it your defense of the scene comes up lacking. Failing with reason, all that seems left are personal attacks. A shame, as people you are laying into now at least seemed willing to give you the benefit of the doubt….

101. Jovius the Romulan - June 5, 2013

Right. I’m unreasonable because I have a different opinion. Even though I’ve tried to respect yours before.

I’ll attempt this one last time and then I’m done. Look at my very quick rewrite of the scene:

“Turn around.”


“Just turn around.”


Kirk does so, a little confused. Carol begins talking. Mid-way, Kirk turns his head slightly (being a bit distrustful of someone who lied her way onto his ship and is giving no explanation for her request here), catches a brief glimpse of her zipping up the jumpsuit (with the camera at his POV), and turns back as soon as he sees her, looking slightly embarrassed.

See? Now the scene doesn’t have Kirk gawping like an idiot for a few seconds, seems less exploitive with its shot of Ms. Eve in her brassiere, and still has a funny moment. It also doesn’t imply that it’s okay to stare at women without their permission as long as you’re cute. Everyone wins!

As for your interpretation of the previous movie’s underwear scene, Kirk is still staring at Uhura open mouthed under the bed. If he simply wanted to listen to her report on the Klingon prison planet, he would have cocked his head and listened with an interested expression on his face. You would see the gears turning in his head: “That sounds familiar but I can’t place why,” he thinks. Then he gets busted because Uhura rightly assumes Gaila is hiding another guy under her bed with her suspicious behaviour.

See, already I’ve rewritten two scenes in just a few minutes to make Kirk more of a likeable scoundrel rather than someone who takes a woman’s boundaries with a grain of salt. Ask yourself, why couldn’t Orci and Kurtzman do so? Why did these things make it to final cut? Because there weren’t any women to go, “Hm, can we retool this a bit?” like at Bioware.

Bioware is a good example of an entertainment company that values the input of the women on its staff and has even hired a few female writers to keep things balanced now. Their contributions kept things like that seems vaguely rape-y or exploitive scenes from making it into the game, which would have undermined certain characters. All because the male writers honestly did not know from their perspective. I should also point out there’s just about an even ratio of male to female in their games, all of who have interesting backstories, personality quirks, and are important to the main group.

I’m not sure why you keep rationalizing Kirk’s staring. “Men just stare at women, what’s the problem?” is what you keep implying. But in two centuries, I’d hope men would be evolved enough to respect their privacy!

102. Jovius the Romulan - June 5, 2013

“kept vaguely”, should read.

103. Keachick - rose pinenut - June 5, 2013

Phil – please stop making personal comments about me.

104. Phil - June 5, 2013

@103. You said you were frustrated, I agreed. If you are not frustrated, I stand corrected…


105. Matt Wright - June 5, 2013

@ 101. Jovius the Romulan – nice edits, it just proves that things could have been done quite tastefully with some more thought.

106. Keachick - rose pinenut - June 5, 2013

Let me state that I have already given my own version, VERY early on, of how the Carol Marcus/Jim Kirk shuttle scene could have played out. Interestingly, another poster more or less copied what I wrote. However, it is not what we got and only the Supreme Court can answer why the scene was done in such a way or at all.

People tend to ignore what I write because they see it as me just rambling. Many have told me so on this site. So I guess they miss out…Duh

My guess – to provoke discussion and debate. If I’m right, it’s certainly worked…and how!

107. Jovius the Romulan - June 9, 2013

Matt, thanks.

Keachick, I was not aware you did such a thing. Can you point out where? Any similarities are purely coincidental.

108. Keachick - rose pinenut - June 9, 2013

#107 – I had to search for it through 1,000’s of posts but I found it. It is not quite what you wrote, which was good as well, btw.

I posted it on the Sexy or Sexist thread at comment #109.

“Keachick – rose pinenut – May 23, 2013
The controversial scene could have easily been done differently, with the same result – Carol Marcus in landing party outfits, just as Dr McCoy was dressed in his outfit.
Kirk and Marcus were walking towards the shuttle, while she was explaining to him x,y,z. He was following her to the point where she walked into the shuttle. At that point, she could/should have said to him, politely, but firmly, “Excuse me, I need to get changed now. Do you mind…?” and gently waved him out of the shuttle. Why that didn’t happen, I do not know.
The scene is what it is. Kirk did comply with her request. He did not lay a hand on her nor cause her harm. The fact that what happened as it did had as much to do with Carol Marcus not clarifying what and why, from the get-go. Maybe this whole scene points (loosely) to the fact that men and women are necessarily clear about their desires and needs etc, even to themselves, which can bring about confusing behaviours and misunderstandings…”

I have just seen an important word omitted. I remember thinking it, sometimes very vehemently, but typing the word that follows, as if the strength of the thought alone gets it typed.

This should read, ref. last paragraph, “…fact that men and women are NOT necessarily clear…” This is the truth.

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