Star Trek, after Darkness: What is next for the franchise? | TrekMovie.com
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Star Trek, after Darkness: What is next for the franchise? July 11, 2013

by Joseph Dickerson , Filed under: Editorial,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

As readers of this site know, Star Trek Into Darkness opened domestically and internationally late Spring and has earned over $443 million dollars. This is a success for Paramount, albeit a modest one. It’s not a flop, by any measure… but it’s not a home run, either. It’s a solid double or triple, but Paramount (like all studios do with summer blockbusters) was swinging for the fences. So, what’s next? Well, to quote Donald Rumsfeld, there are some “known knowns” and “known unknowns.” Let’s cover what we know, and spend some time theorizing what comes next.

“Modest?” You may be thinking, “How is $443 million a ‘modest’ success?”

It’s a modest success for several reasons. First, it cost almost $190 million to make, and Paramount spent a considerable amount of money on advertising above and beyond the production cost (at least $50 million, by one estimate). Second, not all of that $443 million goes to Paramount – a significant percentage goes to the theaters that show the film (1/3rd to 1/2, depending on what is negotiated and how long the film runs). Finally, while it exceeded the International ticket sales of the first film, it did not have the 2X multiplier against domestic box office that other summer films (like Iron Man 3 or Fast and Furious 6) achieved.

Add to that the demographics of the people who paid to see Star Trek Into Darkness (only 25% were under 25, much less than the 35% that the first film attracted according to The Wrap), and you can definitely see that things were not as hoped.

The 50th Anniversary

2016 will mark the 50th anniversary of the debut of Star Trek, and releasing a new Star Trek film that year is a no-brainer – Like Skyfall showed last year, there’s a lot of benefit that can be gained from releasing a film that ties into an anniversary year. Will it happen? Paramount has not yet officially stated that there will be a third Star Trek film, which is surprising – they announced a sequel to Star Trek shortly after that film opened. However, co-writer Damon Lindelof has stated in interviews the film is going ahead. Paramount is rumored to be looking for a new director to replace JJ Abrams (who is committed to directing the next Star Wars film). Names of directors that are purportedly being have been Joe Cornish (Attack the Block), Matt Reaves (Cloverfield). Joseph Kosinski (Tron: Legacy) and Alfonso Cuarón (Children of Men). Neill Blomkamp, the director of District 9, was also a rumored name on Paramount’s short list, but he recently stated in an interview he is not interested in directing Star Trek or any other franchise film.

They [Paramount] are firm about having a movie out by the 50th anniversary [in 2016] and we are all trying to see if we can all make it work together. — Orci and Kurtzman in an interview with TrekMovie.com


TrekMovie spoke with Trek writers Orci and Kurtzman who’d like to see a 2016/50th anniversary film happen

Bad Robot

At this point, it looks like Bad Robot will continue to be involved in any potential sequel to Into Darkness, and the writers of the film have discussed wanting to bring Klingons back as the main villains of any third film. Since Bad Robot is JJ Abram’s production company, he will presumably have some input into the story and creative decisions even with his commitment to Star Wars Episode VII.

Above and beyond that, the ongoing Star Trek comic book (supervised by Trek movie writer Bob Orci) will continue to tell new stories set after Into Darkness and adapt classic TOS episodes. As the comic laid hints as to what would happen Into Darkness, it may be worth keeping an eye on for “clues” as to what will take place in the third film.

A lower-budget sequel?

How will Paramount respond to the modest success of Star Trek Into Darkness? Possibly by reducing the budget of the third film. This could be a good thing, in that a reduced budget could increase focus on telling a tight story and on character moments. A Star Trek sequel with a reduced budget wouldn’t be anything new – Paramount cut the budget for the first Trek sequel, and in return we got The Wrath of Khan. Less money doesn’t mean reduced quality – sometimes budgetary constraints can produce creative solutions and better ideas.

A return to television?

Star Trek started on television, and many fans think that Star Trek is better suited to episodic TV than to films (former Star Trek writer and show runner Ronald D. Moore has also said as much in interviews). Writer/producer Bryan Fuller, who is currently working on the series Hannibal, has repeatedly said he would love to helm a new Star Trek series.

Will it happen? Maybe, but don’t count on it.

Thanks to a large splitting up of Viacom properties in 2005, two different companies effectively own the Star Trek franchise: CBS Studios now owns Star Trek as a television property and Paramount Pictures owns the film properties. While they have a relationship where the “Star Trek” name and characters are cross licensed to one another, there are two different managements that exist and these managements would have to work together to make a new Star Trek series. This won’t be easy, because corporations are… interesting places (think Dilbert). Doing Star Trek on TV again would require a significant investment in sets and special effects before a single episode is filmed, and it would take a big commitment for any network or cable channel to green-light such a production.

An animated series has been rumored for some time, and such a series would cost less than a live-action series… but there are challenges there as well. What is the target audience? Will it be a “dumbed-down” version of Trek for younger viewers? Or will it be a more intelligent series, like the recent Star Wars: Clone Wars show? When would it be set, and would it attempt to bring in recognized voice actors (like Patrick Stewart) to appeal to fans?

A lot of moving parts have to come together to make a successful Star Trek series. Is it worth trying? Absolutely. But, as noted above, there are challenges.

Continued merchandising, video releases and tie-ins

There are multiple companies producing Star Trek merchandise: Diamond Select, Simon and Schuster, Round 2 Models, Her Universe and more. New games, posters, collectibles and clothing items will continue to be made, all intended to separate fans from their hard-earned Latinum… err, dollars. CBS is busy remastering all the Star Trek: The Next Generation seasons, and have recently started releasing Enterprise on Blu-ray. A high definition remastering of Deep Space Nine may also occur, depending on how the Blu-ray sets of ST:TNG and Enterprise sell.

However, things aren’t all rosy when it comes to merchandising. Star Trek the Video Game released to tie-in with the new film flopped, with tepid sales and horrible reviews. Hasbro released Star Trek building sets (through its Kre-O line) to tie-in with the new Star Trek film, though soft sales may halt the creation of additional sets. Finally, the soft economy (along with on-line streaming services) has reduced “catalog” sales on all home video titles, and this has impacted the sales of season and movie sets.

While there’s a lot of fan-centered merchandise on the market for the various franchises, there are also a whole lot of Star Trek fans out there… and many of them will continue to purchase Trek-related products to line their shelves and display cabinets for the foreseeable future.

Ongoing fan productions

While it may be at least three years since we get new Trek on the big screen, there IS new Trek being made. In edition to the Star Trek: Phase II production, Star Trek Continues recently premiered to much praise. While both productions have some shot-comings (due to it’s low budget) both are entertaining original takes on the original series, telling new stories with the involvement of some of the creative team from the original series (such as DC Fontana and David Gerrold). This is in addition to other “one-off” fan efforts and older shows that have ceased production. So check out these interesting takes on the Star Trek universe.

Star Trek lives!

Star Trek is still a viable franchise, with fans around the world excited to share their love of the series with their fellow Trekkers (or Trekkies, depending on your preference). While some fans were frustrated with some of the creative decisions in the latest film, many others enjoyed the film. The reason for such strong reactions, both pro and con, is simple: People LOVE Star Trek, and it holds a special place in people’s hearts. And as long as it provokes such a passionate reaction, Star Trek will never die.

Stay tuned to TrekMovie for the latest news about the potential third film and all things Trek.

Joseph Dickerson will be speaking about this topic and Treknology at the upcoming official Star Trek Convention in Las Vegas. He writes about technology design and pop culture at http://www.josephdickerson.com


Comments

1. PC3 - July 11, 2013

Something NEW for a change – Don’t save the whales again!!!!!

2. Kevin - July 11, 2013

listen…… it was OUT ONLINE…. free to be watched.. (albeit a lower quality version) THE DAY BEFORE IT CAME OUT IN THEATERS in the U.S……. that in and of itself, had to have contributed to (taken away from) the bottom line…. those young people probably WATCHED IT ONLINE …. FREE…. try not releasing it to OTHER COUNTRIES FIRST who will, with wreckless abandon… let people bring video cams into theaters…. and you will probably get a bit better revenue.

it took a couple of days for ironman 3 to come out, online…… probably what gave it the financial boost. that… and we love RDjr.’s PORTRAYAL of tony starke.

3. Ttn - July 11, 2013

New is what is needed. Beyond TNG. We can do so much better than anything that came before – and with Roddenberry stories. Set it way out there – where no one has gone before.

4. Kevin - July 11, 2013

having a prancy brit…. with weird bangs, play KAHN probably didnt help either.

5. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire - July 11, 2013

Well. Star Trek Into Darkness was an Ok Film. I have only seen it once. I usually see a Trek Movie an avarage of 4 to 6 times. With Trek 2 at 12 and Trek 6 at 9 and Trek 09 6 times. We all said please do not do a Khan Story. Make it an Orignal. I respect Bob Orci and I know he did the best he could in making a great movie. Of all the 12 Trek Movies i would rate Into Darkenss at #8 of the 12 for overall Story. Fx would be a #1. But FX as great as it is. Can only do so much.

6. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire - July 11, 2013

Oh and We must have a Movie for the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek. Not to do so would be. Illogical.

7. Platitude - July 11, 2013

I’d love to see more Klingons in the sequel.

As for television, I think it would be great if they had Ron Moore develop and write a new show.

8. TardisCaptain - July 11, 2013

I see the release of a third film. But no more films after that in the alternate universe. Some of the actors have other roles and may not want to return to Star Trek. So we may have a dry spell on the movie side of things after 2016.

However I would do anything to get Star Trek back on TV. I could see a series starting or announced in 2016 as well since the no TV clause should be done when the last movie is made. Yes Star Trek belongs on television. You get more stories that way, more people talking about the product (at least more than once every 3-4 years) which results in more sales of merchandise.

9. Red Dead Ryan - July 11, 2013

Next time, Paramount has to get its North American marketing strategy in order. The marketing for STID in the U.S. and Canada was virtually non-existent. Not to mention we had to wait a couple of weeks after movie premiered in international markets, and have the spoiled for us online.

Next, the Trek season set Blu Rays are too expensive. They should not be above $50 apiece. When you’re selling them at prices up to $100 it doesn’t take Pythagorus (sp.?) to figure out that fewer people will buy them, meaning less revenue for CBS.

Finally, they’re going to have to get going on the third one. No more dicking around with side projects and “Star Wars” planking. There simply is no excuse to not get the movie out for the anniversary.

10. Exverlobter - July 11, 2013

Almost 450 Million at the box office is considered just a “moderate” hit while the predecessor was considered a “great” hit with 385 Million.
How does that fit together?

11. Aaron - July 11, 2013

“Paramount Home Video is busy remastering all the Star Trek: The Next Generation seasons, and have recently started re-releasing Enterprise in HD. ”

They’re being remastered CBS Digital and CBS Home Entertainment.

12. Yob Benami - July 11, 2013

I actually read this whole article. Very interesting. Well done Joseph!

13. Al Jalaikakik - July 11, 2013

Absolutely Star Trek should be back on TV. Whatever the difficulties involved in Television, the franchise will not survive long on one movie every 3-4 years. I’m already tiring of that format.

The fan productions alone show that it CAN be done very well on a low budget. With the resources of even a modest network show, it can easily be done better that those.

14. DavidJ - July 11, 2013

I think it’s pretty obvious that the general audience just had a hard time getting as excited about the darker, terrorism-themed STID.

The end of the first movie promised a fun, space exploration adventure movie… not some dark and gritty Khan revenge thriller. In the trailers STID basically looked like every OTHER overblown action movie out there, and didn’t have the unique enough feel that the first movie had.

15. The Trekman - July 11, 2013

If the third movie does come out in 2016, it should be a something epic to mark the 50th Anniversary. Since the first movie saw the creation of this alternate timeline, the threat should be the destruction of the timeline and maybe all timelines including the prime timeline. This would give them the opportunity to bring back old faces throughout franchise (Picard, Shatner’s Kirk, etc.) where they all have to work together to save the Star Trek multiverse.

Basically it should be a cross between a Doctor Who Anniversary special and DC’s Crisis On Infinite Earths

16. trekkie626 - July 11, 2013

Genesis, calling it now.

17. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire - July 11, 2013

The Next Trek Movie should have Angry Tribbles as the Villan. Lol.

18. DavidJ - July 11, 2013

10

No matter how well a film does worldwide, they still take notice when a sequel ‘s domestic gross falls below the first film’s.

In this case it’s about $34 million below. For a sequel to a huge hit like the Trek09, the gross should be a lot HIGHER than that.

19. MattR - July 11, 2013

#2. That argument doesn’t work when Fast Six and Iron Man 3, both heavily watched by the younger demographic made SIGNIFICANTLY more than Trek did. Fast Six is at $700 mil worldwide, while Iron Man 3 is at $1.2 bil, and both films opened internationally first like Trek. Piracy has a smaller impact than people think.

20. miketen - July 11, 2013

So the third movie is going to feature Klingons. Let me guess, Kruge is going to be in the next movie commanding a bird of prey. Will we also get the Genesis planet in the next movie?

I’d love Trek to go back to TV, there is a lot of good sci-fi recently on TV that had good FX on a tight budget. Look at Battlestar Galactica or Stargate Universe, two show done on modest budgets I’d really like to know what Paramount spent $190 million dollars on, and this isn’t a knock on the Trek movies, most movies today have incredible budgets that seem way too high.

21. Jeyl - July 11, 2013

“What is the target audience? Will it be a “dumbed-down” version of Trek for younger viewers?”

If Star Trek is still in the hands of anyone in JJ’s High Court, you should already know that answer.

22. Phil - July 11, 2013

Agree that while the franchise is viable, there are weeds in the garden. Gotta wonder how jumpy Paramount is about franchises, as it’s been noted that worldwide franchise box office is down about 20% this year, Disney’s meltdown on John Carter and Lone Ranger, both projects that they intended to be franchises, and Paramount resuscitating Terminator (with Arnold, Mr. Box Office cyanide) involved – a franchise better left dead at this point. I can see wisdom in better management, but it’s foolish now to treat Trek as an afterthought.

23. Paul - July 11, 2013

So what’s a “trekker” anyway? Does the old definition – “a trekker: a trekkie who’s ashamed of being a trekkie” – still work?

As for Trek in TV – there’s a ton of TV-style Trek made by fans, and it is not amateur production anymore. Do we really need any “official” series? Many households got rid of their TV sets anyway, everything is on the internet these days.

24. AyanEva - July 11, 2013

Good article! Well a lot of money can be saved by getting rid of the 3D. I loved it in IMAX 3D but it’s not totally necessary. If a smaller budget means more character moments, then this is a good thing. For the 50th anniversary, we don’t need huge explosions, we need a huge story! I absolutely love STID but let’s do something we absolutely haven’t seen before.

25. TUP - July 11, 2013

I know a lot of people will disagree but a 50th anniversary flick must be a full franchise epic.

You want to crack half a billion? Get shatner and Stewart involved. Period.

26. Thomas - July 11, 2013

This was an idea for a film, but I think this would be better suited for a series:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Beginning

Done right, this could be amazing. It could end up being what ENT should’ve been.

27. Lostrod - July 11, 2013

What is:

“Modest?” You may be thinking, “How is $43 million a ‘modest’ success?”

Referring to?

Regards.

28. Ahmed - July 11, 2013

@ 25. TUP – July 11, 2013

“I know a lot of people will disagree but a 50th anniversary flick must be a full franchise epic.
You want to crack half a billion? Get shatner and Stewart involved. Period.”

Agree, the 2016 movie should be an epic Trek story than span both timelines. Enough with dumb stories or Kirk the skirt chaser. I want to see Captain Kirk who actually leads his crew & think with his mind.

And I think it will be amazing to have Shatner & Stewart in that movie.

29. Craiger - July 11, 2013

I think now we wont see a new Trek TV series until after the third movie since now it looks like STID just did ok. Probably wont be until 2017 or 2018 when we would get a new series. Imagine the SFX by then? Maybe they will be awesome and cheaper to make? I wonder if they could look real enough not to even need sets? Would doing green screen save money on production?

30. William Bradley - July 11, 2013

Terrific piece!

Very strong overview of the overall!

31. Khan 2.0 - July 11, 2013

i think they should take no chances and do the borg for ST3 in 2016 (Star Treks Skyfall)

-Although the borg have been done to death on TNG (& VOY/ENT) and in a prior film, they are firmly a TNG era villain and we have never seen Kirk and Co have anything to do with them (bar a comic in the Star Trek Manga series and Shatners ‘The Return’). Fans would obviously be intrigued with how Kirk, Spock would deal with the borg threat (almost a TOS vs TNG/Kirk v Picard thing going down)

-post Q Who/BOBW part 1 (when the borg were at their most menacing) they always seemed to have a spokesperson which lessened their impact somewhat – so while initially it would seem they are treading old ground it would actually be fresh if it was a more alien non Locutus/Lore/Queen led borg vs Kirk and Spock. (so it would really be a remake of Q Who but with TOS characters sans Q)

-the budget would be in the $150-200m range (First Contact = $45m in 1996) so we could see a totally new version of the borg with todays FX. a far more frightening interpretation more Ridley Scott/HR Giger style pushing the boundaries of the PG13 rating and leaning more toward horror Sci Fi – Star Trek does Aliens/Terminator (like FC but even more so)

-We havent seen the origin of the borg yet or the borg homeworld – so maybe the origins could be explored abit but still keep it vague/lots of mystery alien-ness (like Ridley Scott did with Prometheus). could V’ger even be involved? (ok it wasnt too popular but TMP is still the biggest box office Trek movie when adjusted & Vger appears in the Nero comics and im sure there was a novel that ties Vger into the origin of the borg – Shatners The Return? )

-There was a hint of the borg in ST09 – Neros ship – ok that was just a reference in Countdown but the design of the interior and green hues of the stations certainly had me thinking ‘borg technology’ (could the borg of the 23rd century have detected the narada while it was about and be on their way to take over the federation? Which could also account for any appearance differences – borg of 23rd century could look different to TNG era borg) plus B Orci & AK refer to Best of Both Worlds on the final page of CD

-Robotics/cybernetic type aliens are in vogue thanks to the continuing installments of Transformers. U can see its influence on many recent SF films post 2007 – Terminator 4 (transformer like terminators designed to appeal to the PG13 crowd), Trek09 (neros ship), Cowboys/Aliens, Battleship, Skyline etc

-The studio will want to capitalise on the popularity of Trek to ensure MAXIMUM box office – going with a new interpretation of a previously established villain like Khan in STID will certainly help to do that (although they should publicise the villian the next time instead of hiding it). Paramount had big box office success with First Contact, far more so than any of the other TNG films (or Trek V and VI for that matter)…the main reason behind its success was The Borg…and Best Of Both Worlds part 1 is regarded as TNGs finest hour (next to Yesterdays Enterprise) and just about changed American dramatic television (the season cliffhanger)

-both Trek09/STID have a kind of ‘greatest hits’ of Trek thing going on (abit like the Brosnan Bond films) and are focusing on the more popular villians in Trekdom as opposed to anything lesser know or totally new. the Borg are one of the most popular Trek villians (along with Khan, Klingons and Romulans)..and certainly the most popular villains of the TNG era Trek (i dont believe we’ll see any of the lesser know Trek villians like Cardassians, Breen or even Andorians or Gorns take centre stage in any sequels – beyond a cameo or supporting part)

-The Klingons, while a natural villain for the 3rd movie after their cameo/foreshadowing in STID (and esp one for the 50th ann – like they were for the 25th ann), have over the years become seen as more of an ally to the federation/Starfleet due to TNG (plus the 4 TNG films with worf, not to mention Trek VI which we saw the federation and the klingon empire battle it out for peace) so it may be difficult having them go back to full on sole villains. Might be best if they remain an uneasy threat in the background or even have the film start with a Federation/Klingon war – but then the klingons have to team up with the federation to fight the borg (thus fast tracking their alliance a good 30 years early and foreshadowing the eventual peace in TNG). Anyway didn’t Kirk and Co prevent a federation/klingon war in STID (similar to VI). plus i dont think they would be as interesting and as scary a threat as the borg – esp when you take into account there may not be a forth film with the nu Cast (the cast becoming more difficult to secure, the idea of a trilogy wrapping up the movie series for a few years while trek goes back to tv, in which case a 4th film way down the line would probably feature a new cast/new era) so if you asked any fan or even a person with a vague knowledge of Trek – ‘who would you rather have as villians for the next (and possibly final) film – the klingons or the borg?’ i think most would say ‘borg.’ Also the klingons have featured alot in the previous films (main villains in III and VI but also feature heavily in V and VII)

-i imagine something special will be done for the 50th anniversary in regard to the prime timeline so perhaps something involing the borg messing about with time travel/alternate realities could be a possibilty? (the borg know about/have dealt with timetravel/alternate realities) maybe even something involving Picard and the TNG ‘Days of Futures Past/Yesterdays Enterprise’ style? (the YE two crews thing hasn’t been done on the big screen yet) – It will have been 14 years since Nemesis, enough time to heal the wounds and have fans anticipating some TNG again! (2016 will also be the 20th anniversary of FC)
a kind of all encompassing Trek film for the anniversary…maybe working in Nimoy again, and Shatner finally, and maybe even concluding the JJverse as a trilogy like TDK trilogy has seemingly concluded.

32. CJS - July 11, 2013

Dump Godawful Robot.
Budget about $70 million.
Recast Kirk, Scotty, Uhura and Sulu.
Find a director who has more than lens flares in his repertoire. Someone new and unknown.

33. Vultan - July 11, 2013

Hey, I like Shatner and Stewart as much as the next guy, but why does the big anniversary movie need them? Did Skyfall need Connery and Moore to be a success?

34. Phil - July 11, 2013

Paramount’s reaction to Trek is a bit of a head scratcher at this point – WWZ is tracking very similar to STID, and that sequel has been announced. That silence does suggest there are issues behind the scenes, more so then Orci and Kurtzman checking their calendars.

Speaking of which, these guys can’t be let off the hook – they kept insisting last time out that they were well into the script when in fact they were not. If they can’t do it, fine, but lay the cards on the table up front. They were really loose with their commitments last time around, on a tighter schedule, they need to be more up front about what their priorities are.

35. bassman - July 11, 2013

Yeah, no more alternate universe. I don’t care about these characters, the ship or even Earth because it doesn’t impact anything. They could blow it all up…and so what?
Let’s get back to the prime universe. It doesn’t have to be the same pace or tone of the last few series. There’s a lot they could do, without rebooting anything or invalidating history.

36. Ahmed - July 11, 2013

@ 33. Vultan – July 11, 2013

“Hey, I like Shatner and Stewart as much as the next guy, but why does the big anniversary movie need them?”

Because the current crew is young & not stars yet. For the anniversary , they really need to bring in some of Star Trek legends like Shatner & Stewart.

37. Khan 2.0 - July 11, 2013

@33 – no as Connery and Moore were both playing the same Bond before the series was rebooted with Craig

that said i think Connery was originally a possibility to appear in Skyfall in the caretakers role

38. Red Dead Ryan - July 11, 2013

Ahmed – July 11, 2013

“Because the current crew is young & not stars yet. For the anniversary , they really need to bring in some of Star Trek legends like Shatner & Stewart.”

Uh, no. Leonard Nimoy’s appearance in “Star Trek” was excellent, because of Spock Prime’s necessary role in the reboot. His cameo in “Star Trek Into Darkness”, on the other hand, was not needed, and felt forced.

I just think they’re risking going to the well too many times by continually writing cameos for old cast members.

39. Allen Williams - July 11, 2013

We need the following
1) TV show – after voyager (maybe even mention what happened to them when they got back)
2) an ORIGINAL movie. I was pissed when I found out who was in this film and have yet to watch it as a result.

40. Marja - July 11, 2013

STiD was only a modest success domestically for a few reasons:

1 – No panel discussion at ComiCon. That would’ve been all over YouTube within the week. What were they thinking to snub ComiCon?

2 – Domestic promotion sucked; only a 2-week TV advert saturation campaign [which turns off a lot of TV viewers, seeing the same ad three times in an hour] right before the film opened in the US;

3 – In-theatre promotion sucked; those beautiful “character poster” and lobby cards should have been in theatres right alongside the IronMan3 standees, which were out for TWO MONTHS before IM3 opened. Nope. All we had were gloomy grey posters with a little orange on [flames of course], an apocalyptic-looking let’s-copy-Batman poster [ANOTHER one?], little to identify it as Trek. And where were the STiD giant soda cups? A lot of people have also mentioned fast-food and other merchandise tie-ins which could have come out 2-3 months in advance of opening;

4 – Stars’ US TV appearances were again limited to the week before opening, for god’s sake;

5 – Should have opened in 3rd week in April and beat IM3 to the punch in Action Movie openings;

6 – An appearance by Zoe Saldana/Zachary Quinto on the British Jonathan Ross show was one that should have happened in the US also, say on Conan O’Brien or Late Night with Jimmy Fallon; Karl Urban is a ST fan as well as actor, with great perceptions and humor and could have appeared on Canadian broadcast TV [he was filming in Vancouver BC at the time]; Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto together are a laugh riot and could also have been on a talk show where their improvisational humor would have drawn audience attention, not to mention Simon Pegg who is hilarious. These should have happened 3 months before and 2 weeks before opening. But where were they 2 weeks before opening? In Europe, flogging the movie, WHICH SHOULD HAVE OPENED AT THE SAME TIME AS IN THE US!!

7 – WHY didn’t they have a world premiere? That’s what they did last time. To resounding success.

So if Paramount’s standing around scratching where the sun don’t shine, wondering why the movie didn’t do so well, maybe they should check here; a lot of fans had a lot of input about it all Spring and Summer, and maybe the studio should take some of our words to heart – after all we are devoted Trek fans and many of us are also devoted moviegoers.

And screw the under-25 demographic, I say. Let ALL viewers of ALL ages come and enjoy. Stop catering to the teenboys. And stop catering to the people who want “less talk” and “fewer aliens” – it’s STAR Trek, not ‘Splosion or Crash Trek, and it’s for folk who appreciate some intelligence in their entertainment.

TM: 2016 will mark the 50th anniversary of the debut of Star Trek, and releasing a new Star Trek film that year is a no-brainer
So was having the second film out in 2-3 years, but that didn’t happen. Thanks a lot, Bad Robot.

None of the directors listed except Blomkamp seem to have headed up a good movie, much less a hit, even less a franchise hit. What gives, are those directors the cheapest guys Paramount can hire? If they are looking to kill Star Trek, it seems like they’re looking in all the right places ….

TM: Since Bad Robot is JJ Abram’s production company, he will presumably have some input into the story and creative decisions even with his commitment to Star Wars Episode VII.
Well great, let’s just let the franchise THAT INSPIRED the creation of SWars and LUCASHFILMS line up behind Star Wars for JJ’s attention :{

Ugh – and Klingons as the focus for the third movie. Well, who didn’t see THAT coming from a Parsec away. Unless they are more interesting than ever before. It could happen :P

Ugh doubly at KreO toys. What is the ugliest possible toy we could tie in with, Paramount must have been thinking ….

Folks, I’m sorry to be so demmed negative … I feel, as someone recently said, like Star Trek is the red-headed stepchild that Paramount isn’t really supporting or perhaps wants to let die.

I hope they do get more creative with the next movie and tamp down on all the Giant Action Set Pieces. I’d much rather see characters interacting with good writing from Orci and Kurtzman than see a lot of Big ‘Splosions.

As to TV, I devoutly wish [I say for 10th time] that they could produce – with this cast – a 10-12 episode series yearly on Netflix, allowing for the actors to do other projects, and generating tons of syndication, merchandising, DVDs, CDs and other nonsense to help make money for Trek to continue. Failing that, a super-quality animated version [with better animation than the videogame], with this cast doing the voices, would be GREAT.

Sets of the Enterprise already exist, and should be used for a live-action show. Well, they’d have to build an Engineering set … I’m sure we’re all heartbroken over that possibility :)

And the old Trek managed alien planets with soundstages. With today’s CGI technology, I don’t see so much of a problem. The big thing is production costs; I remember each TNG episode cost $1 million to produce, so today that’d probably be about $2.5/episode.

Maybe they could have rotating casts on “different starships” including this present cast, with say, two other starship crews, and play in the AU using the sets already built for the films. That way each cast would only need to film 4 eps a year for 12 eps ….

If wishing would only make it so, to coin a phrase.

Okay I’m going to go meditate now and concentrate on a vision of good Trek in our future, and on TV, with this cast …. :)

41. MARTIN - July 11, 2013

@31 KHAN 2.0
Brilliant I totally agree the BORG should defo be in the next film.
the original series back in the 60s never had the effects to do the borg back then and kirk and spock have never encounted them before, plus imagine how many lens flaires they could do.
plus all those red,blue,green and yellow lights.

42. MARTIN - July 11, 2013

@31 KHAN 2.0
Brilliant I totally agree the BORG should defo be in the next film.
the original series back in the 60s never had the effects to do the borg back then and kirk and spock have never encounted them before, plus imagine how many lens flaires they could do.
plus all those red,blue,green and yellow lights.

43. D.J. Ammons - July 11, 2013

I have been tracking the box office of STID since day one. I was looking to see if Paramount was able to increase the dismal foreign box office ST 2009 had. I was pleased to see that the big PR push overseas paid off in a much bigger foreign box office but shocked to see the domestic take come in lower for Into Darkness than ST 2009. Much lower.

I thought for sure that the 2009 reboot had broadened the fan base in both its theatrical release and on Blu-ray / DVD / Cable tv ,and that this would mean increased box office for the second film. I was wrong. As I type this on 7/11 Box Office Mojo is showing Into Darknes domestic BO at $223.5 million at what is essentially the end of its theatrical run domestically, ST 2009 ended domestically with $257.7 million. About $35 million more than Into Darkness.

If the foreign box office had not increased from a dismal $128 million for ST 2009 to $221 million for Into Darkness, the film would be considered a bust. I am totally shocked as I think Into Darkness is a worthy follow up to ST 2009.

Some articles have suggested that the Star Trek property rights being split between CBS for tv and Paramount for features has caused issues in developing marketing tie ins that can promote these type films. The bottom line is that it is clear ST 2009 did not break through to the younger demographic that drives blockbuster status. Two out of three of my own grown children who loved ST 2009 never made it to see Into Darkness. (I have failed as a parent it is clear!)

44. kmart - July 11, 2013

The ONLY name that I can think of who would get me to see a TREK film in a theater again is Cuaron.

I was flabbergasted when I heard awhile back that he was involved with some Bad Robot TV project, it is like hiring Salvador Dali to illustrate baby food jars, but this … this I could see, especially if the Bad Robot regulars got out of his way (or better yet, were kicked out of his way) and let him tear things up.

Just on the basis of his POTTER and CHILDREN OF MEN and 90 seconds of trailer for GRAVITY, he’d bring SO much to the table that TREK needs, in terms of not getting bogged down with exposition and with creating strangely new worlds economically …

45. LizardGirl - July 11, 2013

@14 DavidJ

I don’t think it was the message that disinterested viewers. It was the time lapse between the first movie and this movie. Plus, outside of trekkie circles not many average viewers knew about the movie until, literally, this year when they FINALLY started advertising the campaign.

The slogan for the production of this movie was “It’s a secret!”… no one knew anything. Even we fans had very little to get excited about last year. Next time they need to start….actually NOW they need to start on the next film! Lay the ground work for the story and ect. Show up at Comicon, etc. with SOMETHING tangible in 2015.

****
Hi, BB! ^_^

46. LizardGirl - July 11, 2013

Ooops! Wrong thread! But if you’re stop by this one BB….Hi!

47. MikeB - July 11, 2013

@40 Marja
I agree with most of your ideas. Well thought out. I dread the not unexpected idea of Klingons as the next movie’s focus. Bad idea. Klingons have been done to death. They will not pull in the viewers Paramount wants so badly. Besides that, why all the build-up in STID for the Five Year Mission and all the potential there to just return to the same old Klingon stuff?
As for building the audience, what Trek desperately needs is a TV accompaniment to the movies. All the other big franchises have a TV presence. The best bet is a kid friendly but adult accessible show like Clone Wars and some of the Batmen series. This would create a larger kid audience complete with a desire for toys and keep some momentum going between the films.
Also – PLEASE no Borg!! Something NEW!!!!!!

48. Sebastian S. - July 11, 2013

How about a plot that doesn’t leak all over when you apply any critical thinking to it? A fresh set of writers might be in order; all of Orci, Kurtzman & Lindelof’s movies are starting to feel like the same story recycled over and over….

And maybe a nice return to exploring ‘strange, new worlds…’
I know we’ll never see a bold experiment like ST-TMP, but can they really need to stop recycling parts from “The Wrath of Khan” (dialogue, names, homages and even death scenes).

I realize TWOK was the ST movie that ‘changed everything’ but how about a NEW ST movie that changes things yet again without referencing ‘the needs of the many’ or ‘I have been and ever shall be…’ or ‘ship out of danger’ blah, blah, blah.

Honestly, at times STID felt like a broken record…. repeating the same lines over and over again. Did Nick Meyer get royalties?

I’d like to see some genuine space exploration and seeking out new life; that’s something the franchise hasn’t done in a very LONG time.

49. Dee - lvs moon surface - July 11, 2013

#9. Red Dead Ryan

I totally agree with you regarding the promotion of the film in U.S. … apparently interviews in those talk shows that were more interested in talking nonsense about nothing than to talk about the film not very helpful!

They made the world premiere of “Into Darkness” in London without live stream and in LA, too … Did anyone see how fantastic was the premiere of Skyfall in London, with live stream?…and, without junket press in US, too!

Btw, the premiere of STID in Berlin was great… and, I know because of the live stream! ;-)

50. THX-1138 - July 11, 2013

Releasing STID outside of the US a month in advance was a gigantic mistake. As noble as Trek fans would like to say they are, the majority of us rushed to any site claiming to have plot spoilers. And then we were disappointed to find out what the plot actually was, in part because we had been lied to about Khan all along. That’s bad juju.

My vote would be to dump everybody involved in the production save for Ben Burtt and Michael Giaccino (sp?). And if you want to make a big splash for the 50th anniversary RESET THE TIMELINE. Have it be a big fix and a set up for a Trek series that takes place in THE PRIME UNIVERSE. Have Picard and Riker and everybody crossover into the AU in order to set things straight and make it a grand spectacle, seeing as I doubt that any more Trek movies are going to get made after this third one. And while you’re at it, set the new series 100 years after Voyager and let’s EXPLORE SOME STRANGE NEW WORLDS.

Like I said, that’s my vote. It’ll never happen and whatever does happen will probably disappoint me.

51. Dee - lvs moon surface - July 11, 2013

What I mean… STID without junket press in US… apparently, not all sites specializing in film and other media were in London for the interviews!

52. Craiger - July 11, 2013

How many times can you reboot/remake Trek and not get bored with it?

53. Craiger - July 11, 2013

It also sounds to me with some of these posts in this thread that Paramount thought STID was just ok and decided to take a gamble on it and see how it would do. Could be why they didn’t promote it that much? If so I don’t think that bodes well for the future of the franchise.

54. TonyD - July 11, 2013

There’s a lot of things Paramount can do to get a better return on the next Trek movie….

- Don’t wait 4 years between movies, thereby killing any momentum or word of mouth goodwill created by the first film.

- Get some writers who can craft a real story that stands on its own and doesn’t just ape characters and situations from other, better movies.

- Don’t release the film abroad three weeks before its domestic debut, thereby flooding the net and airwaves with clips, spoilers and reviews and thus killing any momentum in the USA before it has a chance to start.

While it will never admit it, Paramount really botched the release of this film in numerous ways and is as much to blame as the filmmakers (who are guilty of preferring flash to substance) for the relatively disappointing performance. Hopefully it will learn from its mistakes rather than simply citing “fan fatigue” or some similarly misinformed, irresponsible excuse.

55. Mitchell - July 11, 2013

3. Ttn – July 11, 2013
15. The Trekman – July 11, 2013

Agreed with you both and i think Trekman has it perfect. The biggest missed opportunity in Trek history was NOT Putting The Main Timeline in jeopardy, even i would have paid to see into darkness (i saw it for free during a local movie theater promotion) and saw it multiple times with friends etc..etc..if the timelines were at stake, that would have actually made into darkness matter, and very interesting that these much different and flaw versions of the characters are caught up in the Khan/Marcus foray while trying to figure out how to “restore” things and save the multi-verse etc…
Something along those line for the 50th and then just start over with something completely new.

56. Aix - July 11, 2013

@4
“having a prancy brit…. with weird bangs, play KAHN probably didnt help either.”

Oh, I don’t know about that, Kevin. Even the scathing reviews I’ve read says Cumberbatch’s performance made STiD better.

And Paramount is apparently sending him to Japan (alone, from what I gather) to promote the film.

He’s an asset. Yeah, they should not have made him Khan but Cumberbatch is a great addition to the franchise.

57. Mitchell - July 11, 2013

9. Red Dead Ryan – July 11, 2013
28. Ahmed – July 11, 2013

Amen to you both. and Ahmed you have it right on! Especially including the original actors like Shatner and Stewart, lets face it none of these guys/gals are getting any younger and we’ve already lost two of the best from TOS.
How the low budget Of Gods And Men had more thoughtful cast appearances and stunningly emotional moments (Uhura singing to Charlie Evans again) than anything we’ve seen from Hollywood in a long time, is just a flat out crime.

58. Disinvited - July 11, 2013

This CBS licensing who-hah is just deflecting responsibility through scapegoating. This same studio navigated licensing with Marvel to greater success and Marvel spilled the beans after Disney bought them on how they weren’t one happy family, either, with Paramount.

59. Mitchell - July 11, 2013

58. Disinvited – July 11, 2013
Pretty Much.

44. kmart – July 11, 2013
“I was flabbergasted when I heard awhile back that he was involved with some Bad Robot TV project, it is like hiring Salvador Dali to illustrate baby food jars”

BAAHAHAHAHA! Wow! Sir i applaud you for that one. Hilarious!

60. OldDarth - July 11, 2013

No Klingons!

No frakking transwarp anything!!!!!!!!!

No Orci & Kurtzman! The more I see of movies they have written the less I like their output – they’ve spread themselves too thin and it shows.

No recycling of material!

Get A SF writer!

Do something new. Some original! There is still a clean canvas to work with.

Let the next movie be one where the characters are at the same point they were in the original series and have them BOLDLY GO!

It’s high time this highly talented cast got to make their own mark.

Let them see what is out there!

61. cugel the clever - July 11, 2013

I (and many others) said “please no Khan, do something original!” but no, we got Khan for the 3rd time, and only a “modestly” successful film.

This time, please no Klingons! They have been done to death in film, TNG, DS9, and even Enterprise. They are no longer even scary.

Please create a new villain or an underused villain (like the Tholians). If you must retread another overexposed villain, at least use a formidable one like the Borg.

62. Trek Tech - July 11, 2013

Merchandising sucked as I predicted it would and for the reasons I said. The new crowd this panders to arent the buyers of the stuff we like and the die hard fans from way back dont care for the new aesthetics. Imagine what an ‘Engineering Room Playset’ wouldve looked like. Chambliss and his art department dont seem to have a clue as to what collectors and kids find to be cool. A Trek first person shooter? Who didnt see that as a flop out of the gate. Sorry but this JJTrek isnt erchandisable. The dismal sales of figures and toys from the first movie proved that and what we’re left with if is kiddie blocks or 5 thousand dollar collectors models. Shortsighted to say the least.Numbers dont lie. STITD was a pretty but grossly uninspired movie with a great cast and a mediocre story. Was it horribble? No. I found I could enjoy it when I shut my brain off. Thats what troubled me. I fell in love with a Trek that turned my brain ON.

63. MARTIN - July 11, 2013

The borg should be in the next film, if they have a good story that fits. because it would be awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiunXOYnclk

64. Vultan - July 11, 2013

What Trek really needs now is to tell an original story and tell it well. All the spectacular special effects in the world (which, let’s face it, aren’t all that special anymore) can’t save a “modest” script.

New writers, please.

65. pizza - July 11, 2013

Bob and Damon you did what you could.

However, For Star Trek 2016.

Need new writers plus an ORIGINAL story please.

No lens flares, plus an ORIGINAL story.

Since Bob and Damon like to rehash someone else’s story, how about we pull a Bobby Ewing and have Spock wake up and realize the last two movies were nothing but a dream.

Oh, and did I mention, WRITE AND ORIGINAL STORY!!!!!!

66. Mitchell - July 11, 2013

@62. Trek Tech – July 11, 2013
Yeah even my brother who’s a huge fan of the Abrams Trek designs bought the Enterprise toy, gave it a puzzled look and sold it for $5.
you got real problems when fans of your work don’t even like the toys/collectibles of them.

67. RaymondS - July 11, 2013

I’ve been a Star Trek fan since 1966. I embraced the Animated Series, cautiously and later enthusiastically embraced TNG and DS9, and faithfully watched the lesser Voyager and Enterprise shows. I also enjoyed the 2009 movie despite some reservations. BUT- I was so insulted by ST:ID that for the first time in my Trek-loving history, I only went to see it once in the theater.

For 2016, I agree with much of what has already been suggested. Because it is a 50th anniversary film, I’m one who would like to see Shatner, Stewart, and perhaps a few other surprise faces from the past as they seek to restore the original timeline. Perhaps Shatner could die an honorable death (and not fall off a bridge this time) and sacrifice himself to restore the timeline.

I agree that Trek seems to do better on lower budgets, which allow for more character moments and less whiz-bang. The fan-made productions seem to “get it.” Episodes like “World Enough and Time” are brilliant, magical, emotional and memorable, and lead me to want someone like James Cawley involved in the script.

Villians- no Borg, no Klingons, no Romulans. Let the villian (if there even need be one) be something we haven’t seen before, or at least a very underdeveloped one, such as the trilobites of “Conspiracy.” I wouldn’t be opposed to Section 31, as they might be involved in the timeline restoration.

Music- Michael Giaccino is too egotistical to stay. Find a composer who would be honored to play some of the old Trek riffs in the soundtrack- the famed Klingon theme music, with more cues from TNG and TOS peppered throughout.

These are just a few personal suggestions. I just don’t want any more plot repeats, Khan, whales, or anything else shoehorned into the storyline.

68. Mitchell - July 11, 2013

64. Vultan – July 11, 2013
Agreed. Effects only go so far these days. Especially with the bar raised so high it’s kind of expected they be there and be great to begin with.

65. pizza – July 11, 2013
Agreed. but pulling a bobby ewing wouldn’t be all that original. lol

i’m for starting over all new all together or just rebooting completely all the way back to the occurances even before the 21st century, how about Gary Seven and the beginnings of the Eugenics Wars in some one shots or similar to what Marvel is doing with S.H.I.E.L.D. etc…etc… Then build your way with great momentum up to the TOS era. with movies only reserved for the most major of events until you reach the moment in the timeline where TMP took place and go from there where you will.

69. richpit - July 11, 2013

I don’t claim at all to be an expert in the world of movie-making, like so many people here seem to do. But, I definitely think that JJ’s “policy” of total secrecy is just not working for him? Did it work for Cloverfield? Super 8? Trek 09? I don’t think so. You need to get the GENERAL audience excited about a movie, not just the core fan base. You do that by having publicity and teaser trailers and decent merchandise BEFORE the movie comes out.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed STID. Yes, it had plot holes. Yes, I do wish it hadn’t turned out to be Khan. But, it was a fun summer movie.

70. LizardGirl - July 11, 2013

…Actually, the Voyage Home is a good template for future trek endeavors. Fans keep saying that they’re tired of cliche villains. Well…who was the villain in The Voyage Home? Also, there was a positive message there and decent humor. The very stuff that some say the new franchise is lacking…

71. William Bradley - July 11, 2013

The villain in The Voyage Home was, ah, the soccer ball eye of the whale probe that, when detached from the body, appeared to cause all manner of storms shutting off Earth’s needed solar energy.

I found its motivation to be a bit on the enigmatic side …

72. Ahmed - July 11, 2013

@ 69. richpit – July 11, 2013

“I don’t claim at all to be an expert in the world of movie-making, like so many people here seem to do. But, I definitely think that JJ’s “policy” of total secrecy is just not working for him?”

Exactly, it just made people more frustrated & the final reveal was such a letdown.

“That said, I thoroughly enjoyed STID. Yes, it had plot holes. Yes, I do wish it hadn’t turned out to be Khan. But, it was a fun summer movie.”

And that is the problem. STID was just your typical summer movie. You watch it, then the moment the lights come on, you forget it.

They could easily removed the name Star Trek & just called this movie “Space Revenge” and no one will notice any difference.

I usually watch any new Star Trek movie at least 3 times in the theaters but not this time. I watched STID once & it was enough.

73. Dean-O - July 11, 2013

YEAH — let’s do a new Star Trek film that covers new and unexplored ground. HOW ‘BOUT THAT? Yeah — let’s create original characters with totally new biographies and motivations. I’m excited already! Maybe?… no?… um… DEFINITELY! YEAH — let’s write a screenplay with a strong/cohesive/emotionally-charged and action-packed energy that all link together as a tapestry of sci-fi literary genius. YEAH!……………..?

74. dmduncan - July 11, 2013

Klingons.

75. Greg - July 11, 2013

I don’t expect them to make it, and if they do it won’t be a good project.

JJ is GONE. He almost didn’t make Into Darkness, both because the studio insisted on 3d and because CBS shafted him big-time with all the stuff he had planned to go along with the first film, which was to include books, web content AND a return to TV. CBS also refused to withdraw Original Series merchandising that would have competed with things JJ wanted to put out there.

If Paramount tries to make the next one (if there is one) on a shoestring, it is also doomed. The only reason that worked for the Prime Universe Trek films is because they had the vast archive of costumes, props, models, set decoration (including entire struck sets) in storage.

As soon as Into Darkness wrapped, just as happened after the first film, I expect that the sets were not just struck, but demolished and either crated up for auction OR simply thrown out.

76. Barney Fife - July 11, 2013

Did people go see Star Trek 5, 9 & 10 more than once in the theater? Be honest! I was happy to see our franchise finally have one of those big, flashy, fun summer popcorn movies. STID delivered. Critical and viewer ratings were more than acceptable. Now they can throttle back and make it more SciFi-ish for the next feature.
But don’t hold your breath for an old-school Trek movie. Those days are done, folks. International audiences prefer non-stop action movies….especially in 3D. Expect Trek to continue with that formula. Our best hope for anything close to old-school in a fresh take on the franchise with a new TV series. Trek belongs back home on TV.

77. Kev - July 11, 2013

76. Indeed problem is its owned by CVS, sorry CBS and I think its going to be atleast another two successful films like it was back in the 1980′s before we see a new show.

and then you have the problem of heading it and the cost as sadly its no doctor who, which can be done on the cheap if needed with all of the shows the BBC does all the time.

and that trek game was a game that lacked fun, man I miss the era of starfleet command, armada and bridge commander.

Basically its good trek is still here and survived 2013, but once again its future is uncertain

and wasnt the guy who directed Shaun of the dead involved in darkness for one scene? why not have him direct as I believe he also directed hot fuzz as well

and he would be awesome for a director and could do it on the cheap.

and as a sidenote if they ever go back to the tng era with the borg, just say Janeway screwed up and freed them of there virus with the destruction of the queen. Allowing them to think as one again.

namely that of the hugh virus

78. Optimistic Doodle - July 11, 2013

50th Anniversary ya say? Let’s parallel a DS9 movie alongside (with Ironside ;-) !!!

79. Will - July 11, 2013

I predict it’ll wind up something like this:

Bad Robot Presents:

Star Trek : Spock Is Missing And There’s Robot, Too

In the latest “They’ll let us do anything we want!” film from the team that was fired from writing the Transformers franchise, Spock has gone camping on New Vulcan when a massive cube of unknown origin arrives at earth. Declaring over subspace, “We are the cyBorgs, don’t resist because there is no use to that,” Saavik must find Spock who deduces only a mind-meld with the cybernetic threat can stop the brainwashed ancient Earth satellite Voyager 6 from destroying all life because whales went extinct when Sybok time traveled and killed them all by sending them flying into the sun which inadvertently created Nuclear Man, causing Kirk who can now fly when wearing blue tights, red undies, and a cape……..

80. Ahmed - July 11, 2013

@79. Will

Dude, why did you have to put that outline in the open? I’m sure now that Bob & co are busy writing the next script taking elements from that outline :)

Because, we all know, it is a lot easier to “re-imagine” something; than actually coming up with an original idea.

81. ilker - July 11, 2013

#67 god bless you. you just wrote everything that was in my chest.

82. Mitchell - July 11, 2013

61. cugel the clever – July 11, 2013
the borg? you know what you are right, they can do the idea that was replaced with First Contact. Imagine this cast/crew in tights! running around the mid-evil earth fighting borg!

“Star Trek Renaissance”

Bones “we’re dealing with mid-evilism”
Kirk “it is the mid evils bones”
bones “oh, yeah well flock you jim!”
**cut to lens flare**

do it bad robot, do it!

83. T'Cal - July 11, 2013

The next film out for 2016? Smart move. While I can’t wait for the next film in that series, I would love to see a TNG-era miniseries for the 50th anniversary. No TV series by then? Dumb move. Still no replacement for ST: The Experience by then? Dumber move.

I thoroughly enjoyed STID and just got back from seeing it for the 4th time.
If the Klingons are the next movie’s protagonists, then make sure they are portrayed as intelligent and honorable rather than merely brutal and savage. As for The Experience, it won’t survive as a stand-alone attraction; it must be a part of something bigger like Universal Studios, Disney World, Busch Gardens, Kennedy Space Center, the Adler Planetarium, etc. Trek needs to reach out to young viewers, something Star Wars has always done successfully and Trek rarely has done. Virtually every retail store that has a toy section has Star Wars stuff.

84. Thomas - July 11, 2013

I’m finding myself wondering more and more if there is anywhere new left to go in the Star Trek Universe. I certainly don’t believe there is a wholly original story left to tell in it (any new story will inevitably be a variation on something done before), but a new series could start filling in the gaps. I stated this in my previous post (# 26), but a Romulan War series could be amazing and become what ENT should’ve been from the beginning: a series that lays the foundation for decades of future history.

Just about the only thing I feel secure in saying about a new series is that I don’t believe we’ll see a “return to form”, so to speak. By that I mean that while certain elements will be there (ship, crew, etc.), I believe a new series will have a modern storytelling sensibility, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing if done well. No matter when you’re talking about, Trek has always been a product of its’ era and it would change with the times for good or for bad (until it didn’t anymore). I don’t think anyone here can or should reasonably expect a new series to be made with a 60s or 80s aesthetic or sensibility, since that time has passed and would not be relevant to its audience.

85. Vultan - July 11, 2013

If they really want to take a page from Skyfall for the anniversary film, take the one from Bond’s garage. Give us the TOS Enterprise!

;-)

As classic as the DB5.

86. Marvin the Martian - July 11, 2013

Hopefully, a much better movie is what’s next.

While no Trek film is as bad as Nemesis, Into Darkness was still pretty awful. And I wanted to like it so much. Trek 2009 was awesome.

87. Weerd1 - July 11, 2013

No Klingons. Go boldly for this one. The movie Prometheus should have been.

88. Photon70 - July 11, 2013

@ 83. Thomas – July 11, 2013
I’m finding myself wondering more and more if there is anywhere new left to go in the Star Trek Universe.

___

Nothing new at all if every movie has an unstoppable villain in an invincible black ship . . . that somehow does get stopped and the uber ship destroyed.

Time to set ST apart from the typical blockbuster.

At least not another big black ship. 3 in a row (Nemesis, ST09 and STiD) is enough thank you!

89. Mitchell - July 11, 2013

76. Barney Fife – July 11, 2013

i’ve seen every Trek film in the theater at least 3 times. this one i’m disgusted i watched once.

90. Mitchell - July 11, 2013

@67. RaymondS – July 11, 2013
You have my great respect sir. It cannot be said much better than everything you typed.

91. MJ (The Original). - July 11, 2013

Joesph.

Jesus Christ dude, have you been sleeping with Curios Cadet or something? It’s not making enough money..woe is the franchise…blah, blah, blah. And seeing the same loser-like talk that low budgets are good for Trek movies. Really? Really?

I could not disagree more. This sounds like the speech that the loser at the 20th High School Reunion gives.

Count me out of your vision for Trek “feeling sorry for itself” mediocrity and malaise. I am looking for bigger, better and more visionary Trek in 2016, not your “let’s make the best of things” Star Trek.

92. Admiral_Bumblebee - July 11, 2013

Harlan Ellison should write the next movie :)

As this is the 50th anniversary they should get as many of the old cast back as possible in one grand adventure – maybe even split into two movies.

This could be the last chance for some of the old cast to contribute to Trek again so I hope they will not waste this opportunity.

93. MJ (The Original). - July 11, 2013

“they should get as many of the old cast back as possible in one grand adventure”

OMG??? witf???

If this is what some fans really think, then maybe we really do deserve mediocrity after all then.

:-(

94. Trek Tech - July 11, 2013

I find it interesting that the tide seems to have turned a bit on JJTrek. Im not seeing the loud defense of JJTrek anymore. It seems that folks are starting to see the great and powerful OZ as merely a little guy behind a curtain. To be fair STID is, in movie terms, still a better film than say Insurrection, Nemesis, Trek 5 etc so its not the worst but at least those FELT familiar and even had some cool merchandise. This is the first Trek Ive felt no desire to OWN any merchandise from. The props and ships are uninspiring (well, with the exception of the Kelvin. I liked that) and the sets are equally ‘meh’. Even Trek 5 had the Assault Phaser (which I loved). I think the flippy nozzle chrome Galaxy Quest rip off phaser to be one of the ugliest prop designs yet. To be fair to the JJPRise, while I find it disfigured and awkward, I STILL like it better than the D or Voyager.

95. Chief Engineer - July 11, 2013

Please boldly go to strange new worlds….

96. MJ (The Original). - July 11, 2013

“Please boldly go to strange new worlds….”

Yea, there we go. That’s more like it!

I agree 100%

They are suppose to be going into Deep Space, so if the next movie is about a Klingon-Federation War, I am going to be EXTREMELY disappointed.

Are you hearing me, Bob Orci? :-)

97. Trek Tech - July 11, 2013

Kind of hard to boldly go when the writers decided to make everything in the galaxy a 5 minute ship ride or better yet just BEAM across the galaxy. Bad writing decision which sort of paints folks in to a corner now doesnt it. “Going to Qonos…be back in 5!”

98. Buzz Cagney - July 11, 2013

Yes Skyfall did great in Bond’s 50th anniversary, but that was because it is a great movie. The anniversary won’t have had much to do with its Box Office. imo.
I’m a bit depressed to hear the same writers look like they’ll be back. They are the real weakness here. I totally get that they love Trek but that in itself doesn’t make them the men for the job.
Still, one good thing, with JarJar out of the way, to a degree, at least they’ll be able to forget the awful Spock/Uhura romance.

99. Diskhanbobulated - July 11, 2013

Been a fan for over 40 years. Sadly, Trek needs to fade away for awhile (again) and be revived with a fresh team that actually cares about the 50-year Trek legacy, instead using it to foist their own personal views of the world on us.

100. steve - July 11, 2013

it must be for the US in canada the theatres dont get that kind of cut
they make there profit from food and drinks

101. Guest - July 12, 2013

Please, no more Orci. His insane conspiracy theories are part of what ruined STID for me. He’s not even talented enough to write fan fiction.

102. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

@100 “Please, no more Orci. His insane conspiracy theories are part of what ruined STID for me. He’s not even talented enough to write fan fiction.”

I did say 2 years ago, that if this movie was going to focus on the U.S.’s over-response to bad guys from 9-11, that I felt that would have been timely about in 2005, but that it was old news by now…yes, we kinda already know that lesson, so did we really need a Trek movie on it.

Reminds me a bit of The Undiscovered Country — the Cold War message from that movie was way late in being timely.

103. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

STID is not a 9/11 conspiracy allegory.

It’s sort of about drone strikes, which are extremely current and are going to be even more important in future, and warmongering leadership.

Amazing number of folks absolutely shelling the movie here.

The problems that STID has aren’t really political.

104. Andrew - July 12, 2013

I hope the comparisons to the new James Bond movies come true. The first Star Trek(2009) was like Casino Royale in that it reinvigorated the franchise. This movie while not as bad as Quantum of Solace is still a disappointment. So hopefully the filmmakers and studio realize they need to change some things and make the next one extra special for the 50th anniversary and maybe it can become a big hit like Skyfall.

105. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

I agree the key to Skyfall’s fantastic success is that it’s a great movie.

BUT the producers skillfully wove the 50th anniversary into both the film itself and its marketing to make it that much bigger.

Bond 50 was a very big deal.

>97. Buzz Cagney – July 11, 2013
Yes Skyfall did great in Bond’s 50th anniversary, but that was because it is a great movie. The anniversary won’t have had much to do with its Box Office. imo.

106. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

“Amazing number of folks absolutely shelling the movie here.”

I liked the movie — I saw it 5 times. But it was not as good as Trek 2009.

107. MJ (The Original).. - July 12, 2013

@102. I didn’t say it was conspiracy; I said: “if this movie was going to focus on the U.S.’s over-response to bad guys from 9-1″

Which is correct. Obviously, Admiral Marcus was D-Cheney, with a bit of Gen James Matoon Scott channeled in.. The unseen Federation President, who allowed all this shit to happen, was G-Bush.

And sure, the transwarp torpedo was a drone analog — again, part of the overall lesson about over-responding to terrorism and losing your own moral compass in the process.

Again, I don’t find this a timely lesson. This lesson was clear 6 to 8 years ago. Been there, done that.

108. Darren85 - July 12, 2013

Well I for one really enjoyed STID and was hugely satisfied with it. I managed to avoid spoilers and all the trailers after the teaser…. well worth the wait I thought!

Going forward I’d like to see something that represents the whole franchise if its to be released on the 50th anniversary. I think Spock Prime’s story should be wrapped up, and some kinda appearance of Picard or Shatner’s Kirk. I’d rather not have Klingons again.

109. Vultan - July 12, 2013

#101

The Berlin Wall came down just a couple of years before TUC. The Soviet Union collapsing the same year it was released, 1991. Seemed timely to me.

But I agree with you on STID. The message seems pretty well worn by 2013. And… Iron Man 3… and The Lone Ranger have more or less the same message…

110. Philip Dunlop - July 12, 2013

Joe Cornish as a Trek director is a very interesting proposition. Anyone who’s seen the Adam & Joe show will know he’s a fan (who isn’t afraid to poke fun, either).

Alfonso Cúaron is another favourite director of mine and, I think, would be a good choice in terms of exploring the characters. I reckon it’d be an altogether more serious, slow-paced movie than we’ve come to expect from Abrams. I don’t think that would be a bad thing. Cúaron is good at building up tension.

Both of these directors, I think, would be good choices for a lower-budget ‘Trek movie.

111. DggJag - July 12, 2013

I liked the movie — I saw it 5 times. But it was not as good as Trek 2009.

I find this facinating as it seems to be the opinion of a large percent of Trek fans. As for my group of friends and family, we tend to feel the opposite. Trek 09 was ok while Into Darkness was much better. Just different strokes for different folks I guess.

112. Mitchell - July 12, 2013

@92. MJ (The Original). – July 11, 2013
We’ve got mediocrity now.

@103. Andrew – July 12, 2013
Quantum of Solace is light years better than stid. At least there we did not get a reordering of scenes right out of it’s own previous installment. And the same idea of using political allegory of the time were used to much better extents with nice twists. QOS doesn’t get enough credit. It only lacked a director with better vision, they changed that for the 50th Anniversary and brought in a high quality team and director. Star Trek should do the same.

113. Mitchell - July 12, 2013

@101. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013
@107. Vultan – July 12, 2013

bob orci himself has come on here to note that 2 major oscar films focused on the topic. Which is the point, with that said and things like Homeland etc… we’ve become over saturated with it.

and oh my Vultan you just put star trek into darkness in a category with iron man 3 and the lone ranger. yikes

114. Tasos - July 12, 2013

I believe that the best news for Star Trek is that Abrams will not be the director for the next one. i need to see the old traditional way of making Star Trek movies. Keep the camera steady for god shake. Star Trek is about characters in a sci fiction environment. is not about fascinating visual effects and mission imposible stands. And what a dissaster this film was. They mange after 30 years using the same villain and plot, with much more budget than back in eighties to create such a bad bad bad movie? Bye bye abrams go to direct fairy tales like star wars. we need frakes for director of the next one or someone who knows!

115. Khan 2.0 - July 12, 2013

The borg also have a strong zombie vibe – zombies are bigger than ever now due to WWZ

just sayin

116. Fiachra - July 12, 2013

If paramount only have the movie rights.. Could they make straight to DVD movies? They could make 1 a year with a low budget… Maybe a new crew on a different ship to make it within the budget. This could be used to set the scene for the cinematic higher budget movies and also deliver more Star Trek! Everyone is a winner in that situation!

117. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

Sorry, drones are bigger than ever and are going to be much bigger than that.

We just had the first landing by an AI drone on an aircraft carrier! The possibilities going forward are enormous.

But STID is obviously not about 9/11.

The reboot universe already had its 9/11 event. That was Nero’s incursion.

I don’t find STID to be much of a political movie at all. What politics it has have little to do with whatever problems it has as a movie.

Aside from the PC factor of having a lily white uber-Englishman as Khan Noonien Singh.

But I think that was just the result of a very confused internal process. That’s not the politics in the movie, that’s the politics around the movie.

Actually, I have to say I’m pretty bored with discussion of STID. I saw the movie twice — saw ST09 six times in the theater — but it’s already blurring compared to other recent movies.

>107. MJ (The Original).. – July 12, 2013
@102. I didn’t say it was conspiracy; I said: “if this movie was going to focus on the U.S.’s over-response to bad guys from 9-1″

Which is correct. Obviously, Admiral Marcus was D-Cheney, with a bit of Gen James Matoon Scott channeled in.. The unseen Federation President, who allowed all this shit to happen, was G-Bush.

And sure, the transwarp torpedo was a drone analog — again, part of the overall lesson about over-responding to terrorism and losing your own moral compass in the process.

Again, I don’t find this a timely lesson. This lesson was clear 6 to 8 years ago. Been there, done that.

118. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

I believe you have mentioned about 9 million times that you like STID … :)

>106. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013
“Amazing number of folks absolutely shelling the movie here.”

I liked the movie — I saw it 5 times. But it was not as good as Trek 2009.

119. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

I agree that Quantum of Solace — which is a much bigger hit than STID — is underrated.

If it wasn’t so damn Bourne-esque choppy — and if it wasn’t made during a writers strike — it would play a lot better. It’s a movie that would have benefited from more time being taken. They threw it out there two years after Casino Royale.

The idea of Quantum is very interesting from a political and cultural standpoint, the settings are stunning, Daniel Craig is in top form, Olga Kurylenko is one of the best Bond Girls …

>112. Mitchell – July 12, 2013

@103. Andrew – July 12, 2013
Quantum of Solace is light years better than stid. At least there we did not get a reordering of scenes right out of it’s own previous installment. And the same idea of using political allegory of the time were used to much better extents with nice twists. QOS doesn’t get enough credit. It only lacked a director with better vision, they changed that for the 50th Anniversary and brought in a high quality team and director. Star Trek should do the same.

120. Commander K - July 12, 2013

VOTE BORG 2016

121. Mitchell - July 12, 2013

@115. William Bradley – July 12, 2013
you counted all 9 million? ;p

@114. Khan 2.0 – July 12, 2013
that sadly should have been Trek, Braga and Moore discussed on the First Contact commentary how they envisioned The Borg being more a swarm that over runs the Enterprise inside and out. Imagine that! What a sight it would have been over the outside of Enterprise – E

they likened their ideas to Aliens and when i saw world war z’s clips i frowned a bit because my mind ran back to how that could have been Trek years before. to do that now i’m not sure would help the attraction of a large audience. I’ve noticed a lot of people are wary of Star Trek becoming a “copy cat” franchise.

122. Kev - July 12, 2013

Yeah and post 85 have it do this to the new enterprise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8B1GNCSfX0

Complete with the bond them blaring in the background

Its funny though I can honestly think up alot of new stories they could do for a new TNG.

LIke have Data return as a hologram using the Mobile emitter from the doctor, the return of the borg after they’ve being cleared of the Hugh virus from janeway’s actions.

explain trans warp, superwarp, and slipstream away as it requiring so much energy that it makes it a one use thing and doesn’t even get you that far.

otherwise it blows up like a mega dragster that needs to have its engine rebuilt after every run to even do 60 K lightyears, that way you get away from the why didn’t the borg attack in force earlier with everything they’ve got argument.

Then Worf as a Captain and the focus of the series, along with having only the superships that create a lot of power being capable of warp 10 speed like in all good things and have that as the limit on speed

and seeing as the Romulan empire did disappear in this timeline of “all good things” like it did there you could draw alot of inspiration from it

Also get rid of the no money thing, that’s been a boat anchor ever since they started that with ST 4 and TNG

so there is still alot they could do, just need to get some balls and some backing to put it to the small screen.

123. raffie - July 12, 2013

I’m not a fan of the last 2 films, I feel they’re a cartoon-version of Star Trek. If a 3rd film were to be made, 9 out of 10 they will follow the same path, so I’d be quite happy there wouldn’t be a 3rd film at all and instead a new TV series would start in the year of the 50th anniversary, one that has nothing to do with the current movies, nor would involve any of the writers/directors/producers.

Let’s get back to real Star Trek and drop this wannabe-mainstream cartoony shit.

124. Chris Pike - July 12, 2013

94. Trek Tech – July 11, 2013

Yes have to agree, there’s a general air of uninspiring about JJtrek which has left me for the first time ever and with great regret, disinterested in seeing any more JJTrek, and this is the only Trek film I have seen only once in the cinema – to great surprise from my brother! – and will wait til TV HD broadcast to see again.

It’s just that it’s a total opposite to when I first saw TOS here in the UK when it was HUGE here early 70′s, the most repeated show on the BBC, and I found it fantastically inspiring.

Something’s missing now, and the whole WOK copy and paste just felt straight like plagiarism.

125. Boy - July 12, 2013

97. Buzz Cagney – July 11, 2013
Yes Skyfall did great in Bond’s 50th anniversary, but that was because it is a great movie. The anniversary won’t have had much to do with its Box Office. imo.
I’m a bit depressed to hear the same writers look like they’ll be back. They are the real weakness here. I totally get that they love Trek but that in itself doesn’t make them the men for the job.
Still, one good thing, with JarJar out of the way, to a degree, at least they’ll be able to forget the awful Spock/Uhura romance.
—————————————————

So, your main problem with STiD is the romance???? You worry more about a 5 minutes romance in a 2 hour sci-fi film????

The Spock/Uhura romance is the least of their problems. I hate to break it to you but I bet spock/uhura will get married in the next film. That is the way all couples end up in the third part of a film’s trilogy especially when the couple have made it through two films.

If they wanted to end the S/U romance they would have done so in the 2nd film. If a new director comes along with JJ still been one of the producers , they will just wrap up the romance. In other words: Marriage. I believe there was already an article written on this site about the S/U relationship and the M word.

M word stands for marriage.

A lot of TOS trek fans don’t seem to understand that a romance between a man and a woman is part of civilization, nature and just everyday life. Every franchise regardless of what genre has always recognized this concept.

I have said it earlier, it doesn’t necessary have to be spock/uhura , however there should always be some sort of real commitment between two characters based on romantic love in every fictional universe and NO, Kirk banging every beautiful woman that crosses his path does not count as romance , All it does is confirms the male power structure that Trek just can’t seem to distance itself from.

Of course, the S/U romance has had it fair share of sexism that most people on the site have discussed with substantial and good reason.

The author of this article brings up FF6 and Iron Man 3 and yet he forgot to mention that those films had a balance of everything: Romance, Actions, Drama, Friendship, Humour and a plot that was ORGINAL.

STiD was very successful in all , but the film fell apart when it turned into a rehash of the great Wrath of Khan.

The main problem with STiD was that it was a fan service film. Its like the writers completely forgot about the new Trek fan base that was created thanks to the 09 film.

If Paramount wants ST 2016 to be a real success, they have to go back to the formula they used in the first film. Yes, a lot of people say ST09 was like Star Wars, however the quantity and quality of the 09 film speaks for itself.

In 10 years time, fans and critics would look back and remember ST 09 as one of the best films Trek ever produced and perhaps one of sci-fi’s best films. Rotten Tomatoes, MSN and SFX magazine have already put the film on their list of best films ever. Most Trek fans would disagree but the majority of films fans have spoken.

The Sad thing is that STiD would be forgotten in a few years , STiD lack of remembrance would even get worse when people start lamenting on how inferior it was to WOK.

I do not need to say that the producers of STiD have leant their lesson. Trust me, they have. Its time the writers follow their heads and hearts and stop listening to a vocal minority of TOS trek fans that are demanding Trek should still be the way it was in the 60′s. This is 2013 for god sake.

STiD tried to be like TOS Trek and it back fired (BIG TIME). A franchise needs to progress to remain relevant, even Superman got an upgrade in Man of Steel.

The Superman in MOS is far different from the Superman of the Reeve’s era. I don’t see Superman fans complaining . MOS has made lots of money.It has literally left STiD in the dust money wise.

A great artist (film directors, producers, writers, musician, authors or whatever) should never let his own fans dictate what his work should be, he should trust in his own talents and hope that the fans will be appreciative of his work in the end.

I will leave you guys to these with this words.

SO Let the bullying and bashing by fan boys begin.

SMILES.

126. KevinA Melbourne Australia - July 12, 2013

Where No Man (Where no one) has gone before!

We don’t need anymore rehash – original stories, Movie or TV, is the only way forward for Star Trek. I loved ID, it was fun the way they retold the “old” story but please…please…please…an original story would show some growth in the ST universe, which ever universe that is!

127. Chris Pike - July 12, 2013

94. Trek Tech – July 11, 2013

Yes have to agree, there’s a general air of uninspiring about JJtrek which has left me for the first time ever and with great regret, disinterested in seeing any more JJTrek, and this is the only Trek film I have seen only once in the cinema – to great surprise from my brother! – and will wait til TV HD broadcast to see again.

It’s just that it’s a total opposite to when I first saw TOS here in the UK when it was HUGE here early 70′s, the most repeated show on the BBC, and I found it fantastically inspiring.

Something’s missing now, and the whole WOK copy and paste just felt straight like plagiarism

128. Bernd Schneider - July 12, 2013

I haven’t read such a well-researched and well-reasoned article on the state and future of the franchise in a long time!

129. larryl - July 12, 2013

Transporter that can send anyone anywhere, no matter how far away or how fast it is moving relative to your position….

Starships with warp drive and firepower capabilities that surpass anything TOS / STTNG / et. al. had (including all of the “regular” enemies)….

Meh. I’m done with this “alternate” universe. Since every film these days are required to have bigger explosions and ever more implausible situations than their predecessors (e.g. Die Hard, Fast & Furious, etc.), the only thing left is to zip out, find the Borg, and eliminate them. Should take about 3-4 Earth days, which gives a little time to squeeze in the required sexual tensions that ALWAYS must occur during in the middle of a life-or death situation or just when a good cerebral moment is starting (which MIGHT put the film around 2 hours 25 minutes, so be prepared).

Now where’s my Firefly DVDs – I’m ready to watch some good sci-fi now.

Signed,

A 50-year old TOS fan who enjoys GOOD science fiction (which includes technical plausibility, character development, continuity, and a good ORIGINAL story).

130. Tesla's Cat - July 12, 2013

To echo what I myself said before the second movie came out and what others have said above:

DO NOT RECYCLE.
Do something completely different – no Borg, no Klingons.
Stop trying to copy other franchises, eg Dark Knight.
Stop insisting you’re making it for the Star Wars generation. You drew in even fewer of the under-25s around this time.
MAKE A STAR TREK FILM.
Give us more ingenuity and less of the mega action set pieces.

Lastly, MAKE A STAR TREK FILM.

131. larryl - July 12, 2013

Oh, and forgot – an unlimited supply of blood that can heal anything, including bringing you back from the dead. Sounds like people in this Trek universe just became immortal…

This all may work for a good Mirror Universe movie, now that I think about it……

132. Phil - July 12, 2013

Only because it seems to pop up with astonishing frequency. No Borg. For the love of god, NO BORG. Another big scary bad guy that will fall by the wayside….again….is a disaster in the waiting.

Either that, or close out this universe with everyone assimilated. End of story.

133. TPBC - July 12, 2013

They should never have done this film with Kahn. If they had to use Kahn, they should have made him a Sikh. That’s why this film was not as successful.

134. Janice - July 12, 2013

128. larryl – July 12, 2013

Oh, and forgot – an unlimited supply of blood that can heal anything, including bringing you back from the dead. Sounds like people in this Trek universe just became immortal…

This all may work for a good Mirror Universe movie, now that I think about it…

#128
I’ll take ANYTHING that will bring back PIKE for the next movie. I absolutely hated that they killed him off. Wave the magic wand or magic blood and bring him back.

135. Pablo Esparza - July 12, 2013

Why not make a movie about cross dimensions and time in crisis, for example, Q (from the new saga so a brand new actor or maybe john de lancie, i can’t see anyone else doing it so brilliantly) appears on the bridge of the Enterprise or in a planet visited by the new Enterprise, and tells them that his actions on Khan and on the space are being put on trial….. but this time it won’t be judged like Picard was, this time he will face a crisis that will make him be needing to work along more people, enter Kirk Prime and Picard Prime, maybe add Data Prime in a cameo as a request from Picard Prime, and a touching goodbye scene from Spock Prime to Kirk Prime, and a conflict that involves some of the classic TOS villains, not the klingons, maybe Klingons only used as pawns for something big, like Borg (i can see them constructing an interdimensional device).
Also add a cameo of retired admiral Archer having a nice time chatting to Scotty about his beagle.
I would pay to see that, not only as an action movie in space, but also as a good way to pay homage to previous series and captains and a proper goodbye to TOS and TNG in movies.

136. larryl - July 12, 2013

#130
I would agree. I didn’t think that I would care so much for the Pike character in this universe, but I found that the scene with Pike dying was the most riveting for me. Maybe because we know that Spock had a great history with (and allegience to) Pike in the prime universe.

137. Boy - July 12, 2013

127. Tesla’s Cat – July 12, 2013
To echo what I myself said before the second movie came out and what others have said above:

DO NOT RECYCLE.
Do something completely different – no Borg, no Klingons.
Stop trying to copy other franchises, eg Dark Knight.
Stop insisting you’re making it for the Star Wars generation. You drew in even fewer of the under-25s around this time.
MAKE A STAR TREK FILM.
Give us more ingenuity and less of the mega action set pieces.

Lastly, MAKE A STAR TREK FILM.
—————————————–

make a star trek film of the will be relevant and relatable in year 2013-2016.

Man of Steel despite its fault is still a superman film. However a superman film that was relevant in year 2013.

that is trek’S biggest challenge

trek needs to stop catering to the old fan base. Those guys are clocking 80.

138. Scooter - July 12, 2013

I really think opening the movie overseas first ruined it for many. I was disappointed for sure. Also was disappointed by using Khan. Been there, done that. Hoping for a real,original story for the next one, if there is one.

139. jas_montreal - July 12, 2013

If you think about it, Enterprise introduced new species/villains. The Xindi. What have boborci, JJ and alex introduced? No new species. Just the same old stuff.

Argue all you want, but Rick and Brannon did something original at least :)

140. Ran - July 12, 2013

It is worth mentioning why Neill Blomkamp does not want to direct the next Trek movie:

“Dude, I used to be a ‘Star Trek: The Next Generation’ fan. Like, big time… But no, I probably wouldn’t do that. I don’t know if me getting involved with a franchise is the best thing for me. When studios smell franchises, they smell money. And they’ll try to do what they can to the franchise to make it make the most money it can make, and a lot of those interesting ideas kind of fall by the side of the road. So… Do I like ‘Star Trek’ on its own without the politics of making it? Yes, absolutely. But do I think that you could make it in the way that I would want to make it? Probably not, which makes me not want to make it.”

141. Jemini - July 12, 2013

I don’t get why people always blame JJ and Orci for everything that goes wrong in these movies. For what is worth JJ is a good director and good storyteller and I had always appreciate the Orci&Kurtman duo.
I don’t want to be mean but if someone is to blame here, perhaps, it’s Lindelof.
LOL and yes I’m talking as a fan of LOST.. man I’d lie if I say I’m not noticing patterns… let’s only hope that Kirk doesn’t become the next Jack Shephard and it doesn’t end it all with everyone trapped in purgatory where McCoy and Uhura suddenly realize that they’re soulmates and have to kiss in a Cristian church before they all step in the light .. have mercy

142. larryl - July 12, 2013

#140
I would love to see Neill direct a Trek movie!

143. Jemini - July 12, 2013

125. Boy – July 12, 2013

“The main problem with STiD was that it was a fan service film. Its like the writers completely forgot about the new Trek fan base that was created thanks to the 09 film.”

“In 10 years time, fans and critics would look back and remember ST 09 as one of the best films Trek ever produced and perhaps one of sci-fi’s best films. Rotten Tomatoes, MSN and SFX magazine have already put the film on their list of best films ever. Most Trek fans would disagree but the majority of films fans have spoken.”

” Its time the writers follow their heads and hearts and stop listening to a vocal minority of TOS trek fans that are demanding Trek should still be the way it was in the 60′s. This is 2013 for god sake.

STiD tried to be like TOS Trek and it back fired (BIG TIME). A franchise needs to progress to remain relevant”

“A great artist (film directors, producers, writers, musician, authors or whatever) should never let his own fans dictate what his work should be, he should trust in his own talents and hope that the fans will be appreciative of his work in the end.”

I just quoted some of what you said but amen and BLESS YOU^

144. S - July 12, 2013

Part of the problem is that “Darkness” was an awful film, and badly marketed to boot. Mind-numbingly stupid plot, awful dialogue, tedious action sequences. (This last point is something that seems to go unremarked on – for all the money that was put into the film, it didn’t have a single truly memorable sequence. That a *Star Trek* movie doesn’t feature even one big space battle tells you all you need to know.) Plus, Khan was lame. (Cumberbatch is clearly now typecast as the unthinking man’s thinking man – what your average Joe thinks “really smart” looks and acts like, i.e. alternating between cold rational analysis and seething irrational rage, with a posh British accent.) And the whole “Harrison” thing was a pointless marketing gimmick – it distracted (helpfully, maybe) from the rest of the film, but more people would have turned out if they’d known he was Khan.

But the deeper problem is that Star Trek can’t compete with the Marvel universe, Star Wars universe, etc. as a hyper-franchise. It has a nice big world, yes, with lots of pieces in it, but at the end of the day its appeal is an adult one rather than an adolescent one. It’s fundamentally about the humanist imperative to better yourself, to explore the world, to learn; it’s not fundamentally about having awesome superpowers (via the Force, or your super-suit, or super-soldier serum, or whatever) or about saving the world. If you want a hyper-franchise, with a huge consumer base cutting across regions, cultures, age groups, classes, etc., go with Marvel or Star Wars.

Now, I understand why Paramount thought – however hopefully – that Star Trek had hyper-franchise potential. JJ Abrams, fascist aesthetic tendencies aside (or is it because?), is a proven pop cultural commodity, and the 2009 Star Trek did do quite well. The problem was that it didn’t do well because it was “Star Trek”, that franchise that had survived for decades through the support of its solid, if not super-sized, adult base; rather, it did well because it was slick, well-marketed, and perfectly timed to tap into the 60s nostalgia that has also given us “Mad Men”, “X-Men: First Class”, etc. Wisely, insofar as he clearly wants a hyper-franchise to call his own, JJ has now switched to Star Wars. The way forward for Star Trek is to recognize that it’s not a hyper-franchise, and that that’s okay, even from a business perspective: it will never be truly spectacularly successful, but there’s a place for it as a reliable, if relatively (by contemporary Hollywood standards) modest, performer.

145. Boy - July 12, 2013

Thanks Jermini.

A lot of people here including me has pointed out that STiD did not having originality and this got me thinking about Nero. from ST09.

Nero was a brand new character there was no history of him in the prime universe.

Why BC was chosen to be Khan is just beyond me. BC didn’t need to be Khan.

146. Trekbilly - July 12, 2013

#139 — I give Berman and Braga credit for that; for trying something new.

#140 — I totally get what Blomkamp is saying and he’s absolutely right. That’s also why you’d never see any of the other big name directors take on the franchise films. Trek has to have a certain look and feel. Same for Star Wars. Now, with the passage of time in the Star Wars universe, JJ might have some flexibility with the new films.

But I doubt Paramount is going to allow the Trek universe to be changed much from the previous two films in terms of look and feel. At least not for this trilogy.

I understand what Blomkamp is saying.

147. Data - July 12, 2013

In my opinion any next star trek venture should live for what Star trek lives for… science and exploration.
Explore new scientific concepts, bring the theoretical concepts live on screen, if you need a villain then make the space, the universe the unknown phenomenons as villain… not any stupid “one man” villain story.
Tie in human aspects,human emotions into those journeys/experiences and bring out new difficulties and ways to cure them.
For me this is Star Trek it is “science” fiction and not a shooting video game with lens flares.

148. Joseph Dickerson - July 12, 2013

Thanks for all the positive feedback on my article! I really enjoyed writing it and am glad it’s become a “conversation starter.”

One thing I did not add (and I want to add now) is that another factor that needs to be considered is that a LOT of promotional partners worked with Paramount to hype STID: For details look at this Variety article: http://variety.com/2013/film/news/success-of-star-trek-reboot-helps-sequel-blast-off-with-promo-partners-1200483648/

For the film to “only” gross ~$443 million after these partners spent over $100 MILLION dollars in marketing to tie-in to the film… that’s disappointing, and I would wager that many of these partners will never want to align with the “Star Trek” brand again.

149. Sad Panda - July 12, 2013

My vote is: Let Star Trek rest, and concentrate on creating something that is new and just as good.

I don’t say this because I’m bitter about Into Darkness or any other version of Star Trek. I’ve watched and enjoyed all of the Star Trek produced since 1991, but there’s a kind of futility in always trying to recapture the glory of past successes. Treasure the past but look toward the future, I say. Something that is just as good as Star Trek was in ’66 will come along, if we give it enough space.

150. larryl - July 12, 2013

#125, 143

Interesting. I AM a TOS fan (who also enjoys many 21st Century sci-fi films), and I think STiD was pandering to the new (Episodes 1-3) Star Wars base! I wonder why both sides are thinking that the grass looks less green on the other side of the fence…

I guess I’m curious now how you feel that this film was trying to be like a TOS story – I sure didn’t see it (or feel it). I’m not defending or blasting, just curious. Glad that we can discuss the differences here!

151. Curious Cadet - July 12, 2013

@134. Janice,
“I’ll take ANYTHING that will bring back PIKE for the next movie. I absolutely hated that they killed him off. Wave the magic wand or magic blood and bring him back.”

Considering the extent of the ‘homages’ to TWOK, right down to quoting exact dialogue and similar staging, I have to suspect the moment during Harrison’s attack on the Starfleet meeting, when Spock hovered over Pike’s fallen body and even performed what appeared to be a mind meld, very similar to “Remember” from TWOK — especially since that was such an integral part of the scene they basically duplicated in its entirety later. We all know Abrams doesn’t include anything that isn’t absolutely essential to the movie to keep the pacing tight, even if it would help clarify some things. So why show such a moment in the middle of a frenetic attack, if we are not to infer some special significance to it? So I have a sneaking suspicion Pike will be back one way or another.

152. TreK_Fan - July 12, 2013

I like to think outside the box and get some no one would imagine directing a Star Trek film like Quentin Tarantino, Tim Burton or Terry Gilliam or if that fails how about William Shatner?!?

153. Captain_D - July 12, 2013

This article forgets to mention the “Star Trek: Renegades” production being worked on by Tim Russ and other ST vets. They are hoping the pilot movie, being filmed this October and scheduled to be released some time next year, will be picked up and go to series.

154. Boy - July 12, 2013

149. larryl – July 12, 2013
#125, 143

Interesting. I AM a TOS fan (who also enjoys many 21st Century sci-fi films), and I think STiD was pandering to the new (Episodes 1-3) Star Wars base! I wonder why both sides are thinking that the grass looks less green on the other side of the fence…

I guess I’m curious now how you feel that this film was trying to be like a TOS story – I sure didn’t see it (or feel it). I’m not defending or blasting, just curious. Glad that we can discuss the differences here!
————————-

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

STiD was a love letter to TOS fans. The rip off/ re harsh or whatever you want call it was to make TOS fans happy.

Am A huge Star Wars fan and yes the prequels were far from great however the prequels still manages to set itself apart from the original films.

STiD would have worked better if they had used with the same formula they used in the 09 film.

SOMTHING NEW…SOMTHING FRESH.

I wished BC was not KHAN. That was the most annoying part of the film

BC is beyond great but he should have just been another character. A brand new character.

They didn’t need to pay any more homage’s to the old films..Nimoy’s appearance alone is more than enough.

The homage’s in STiD was overboard. Classic examples is Spock’s khan scream which basically broke the fourth wall for me.

155. Boy - July 12, 2013

Tim burton

Tim burton

Tim burton

Tim burton

Hell yeah.

how about the director from Pirates of the Caribbean or Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg?

156. Red Dead Ryan - July 12, 2013

#148.

“For the film to “only” gross ~$443 million after these partners spent over $100 MILLION dollars in marketing to tie-in to the film… that’s disappointing, and I would wager that many of these partners will never want to align with the “Star Trek” brand again.”

I think the main reason for that is that there were simply too many egos involved, all with their own agendas, of which led to a lot of marketing incompetence, especially in North America, where STID is trailing ST09 by about $35 million.

-Paramount scrapped the alt-universe novels because they felt they would potentially clash with sequel story ideas.

-JJ Abrams was keeping everything related to the villain an absolute secret. Even resorting to having several of the actors lie, i.e., Karl Urban’s “Gary Mitchell moment”.

-CBS not wanting to co-operate in regards to allowing Paramount to market the new versions of the TOS characters fearing it would somehow confuse people. Or that somehow Paramount’s reboot franchise would overshadow the Prime Universe franchise that CBS owns.

-JJ Abrams using “Star Trek” as his stepping stone for “Star Wars”.

-The Supreme Court believing that they could put the movie on hold several times so that they could do their own side projects.

-The Paramount marketing department really dropped the ball when it came to releasing STID in international markets weeks before the US and Canada, allowing for the movie to be leaked and spoiled online before any of us had a chance to see it at the theatre.

The marketing partners didn’t stand a chance because of bad direction from Paramount, Bad Robot, and CBS.

Most of us on these boards have little to no experience in marketing movies, but we can easily tell when movies are poorly marketed versus movies that are well marketed.

Next time, Paramount, Bad Robot, and CBS really need to get on the same page, otherwise “Star Trek” risks becoming irrelevent again, especially in light of J.J Abrams rebooting of the “Star Wars” franchise, which stole a lot of STID’s buzz thunder in the several months prior to the movie’s release. There was more chatter about “Star Wars” than there was about STID across the mainstream press.

157. TrekkieJan - July 12, 2013

I’m a lifelong Trekkie and I didn’t see Into Darkness – the very name was a turn off. The poster was horrible.

The many spoilers from the non-US viewers (who got to see it weeks before I might have) confirmed that this wasn’t a movie I wanted to see. I think a US Premier or at least a concurrent release would serve it best.

Too much took place on earth – tired terrorism trope. Too dark, too loud, too violent, too stupid, too magical.

Kirk in bed with two cat women? Disgusting portrayal of a hero who wan’t actually a horn dog. Watch – really watch – the series to see when he used his charisma. You make him a joke. Carol Marcus a weapons expert? Shame on you. Her gratuitous crotch shots? Double shame.

I want wonder, not silliness and implausibility. When you bring in magical blood, fanfic writers are embarrassed for you.

I would also like some smart science fiction in my Trek – and this crew does not write good science fiction. (Strange how, even so, they keep getting every science fiction script in Hollywood. Not that I would go see Ender’s Game anyway – because I’m boycotting Orson Scott Card.)

158. Boy - July 12, 2013

@156

what???

No star fleet academy 5 novel?????/

I loved the earlier books.

It reminded me of my own days in college.

159. Counterpart - July 12, 2013

I think it would be a big mistake to use the slightly underwhelming performance of STID to panic and start falling back on old habits. I already see the discussion here turning towards the “insider” stuff that hurt Trek in the past. Going back to the Borg, old stars like Stewart and Shatner, rebooting again….all huge mistakes. That’s inside baseball and if we’re being honest with ourselves, isn’t what breathed new life into the franchise in ’09.

The movie didn’t fail, and it didn’t underperform because people missed the Prime Universe or even because of the content of STID. It underperformed because of silly marketing decisions made by the people in charge. It should never have opened overseas a month before the US. Harrison should have either just been Khan from the beginning or just stayed plain old Harrison. The secrecy wasn’t necessary.

To honor Trek that’s come before without being overly referencial, I’d suggest SLOWING THE HELL DOWN. I like Trek getting the budget it deserves, but I don’t know if it really helped the cause so much. More fights and explosions weren’t exactly necessary. How about we think a little more and fight a little less next time. How about we make thoughtful Trek again.

160. Anthony Lewis - July 12, 2013

Thank you TrekMovie comments section, for reminding me why I don’t much post around here anymore…. Back to the Trek BBS.

161. Craiger - July 12, 2013

I think their should also be a “The Future of Trekmovie” article. If the franchise is just doing ok maybe Anthony also sees this and that is why he hasn’t been here lately?

162. Curious Cadet - July 12, 2013

@159. Counterpart,
“I think it would be a big mistake to use the slightly underwhelming performance of STID to panic and start falling back on old habits. I already see the discussion here turning towards the “insider” stuff that hurt Trek in the past. Going back to the Borg, old stars like Stewart and Shatner, rebooting again….all huge mistakes.”

To be fair, Lindelof has been talking about the Borg and Q since he became involved. They were talking Khan and Klingons since the beginning as well, and delivered them even though most polls told them not to. And most of the hard core Trekkers who frequent sites like these have also been pushing that agenda since long before even ST09 became a huge sucess.

So no, this has nothing to do with STID clearly underperforming expectations at the box office, though the hard core Trekkers will use it as an excuse to once again push that stale agenda.

If Lindelof is involved in the next film, he may well go there. And I wouldn’t be surprised, given the 50th anniversary, if they didn’t find a way to shoehorn Shatner and/or Stewart in there the way they did Prime Spock in STID (after telling us with a straight face they wouldn’t do that in the exact manner in which they used him).

163. Platitude - July 12, 2013

I liked somebody’s comment about doing a third one that was “what Prometheus should have been.” A boldly going where no man has gone before” story. Klingons could be in it but not the focus.

164. I am not Herbert - July 12, 2013

AMEN to dumping Bad Robot! =D

get REAL Sci-Fi writers, directors, designers, producers, etc…

decrease the budget, and INCREASE the INTELLIGENCE.

165. Philip - July 12, 2013

Do a true anniversary film with a couple Next Gen cast members peppered in with the new original series crew. Have it be some sort of “we gotta reset the timeline” to avoid some new alien threat from beyond the galaxy plot device…

You could have Riker, Picard, Old Kirk, and the young gang racing against time to stop some huge calamity from occurring… Dove tail the whole freaking franchise into one final film that celebrates 60 years of this series..

166. larryl - July 12, 2013

#154 Boy

“STiD was a love letter to TOS fans. The rip off/ re harsh or whatever you want call it was to make TOS fans happy.”

How many of us TOS fans were happy about the supposed rip-off? Not me! They took the name Khan (not the TOS character) and pushed it into a Star Wars episode 1-3 filter (again, my POV). Nope, it was a “Dear John” letter to me, no a love letter!

“Am A huge Star Wars fan and yes the prequels were far from great however the prequels still manages to set itself apart from the original films”

Exactly was I was hoping for from the Trek reboot. I don’t want, and didn’t expect, the same Trek, because it cannot be. I wanted the characters there but not the same stories. Something new from a new generation based on the characters and the Trek universe, but set apart from the original. But I didn’t want this!

“SOMTHING NEW…SOMTHING FRESH.

I wished BC was not KHAN. That was the most annoying part of the film

BC is beyond great but he should have just been another character. A brand new character.”

100% agree. I almost enjoyed BC until I found out he was Khan. Destroyed the rest of the film for me at that point.

“The homage’s in STiD was overboard. Classic examples is Spock’s khan scream which basically broke the fourth wall for me.”

This is the crux of where we agree but don’t – I don’t see it as an homage. Having Kirk die from a phaser wound and having Spock yell would have been an homage – taking the whole scene from TWOK was a rip-off / cop-out. I guess maybe our definitions of homage are different shades of the same color.

Maybe I’m just being grumpy about the whole thing. I guess I agree with most on this forum as to why the film didn’t work, but I don’t feel it is because Robot is holding onto TOS, but because these films remind me too much of what happened to Star Wars. More whiz bang and cool effects, but less continuity and meaningful story.

Anyway, thanks for giving me an idea of what you were thinking. I can see where some think was was an homage, but I hope you can see that some of us from the TOS generation see it more as a parody.

Hey – maybe George Lucas can direct the the next Trek!

167. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

They should reset the new timeline & completely eradicate it. And then go back to the prime universe with its rich history & characters that we loved.

168. I am not Herbert - July 12, 2013

Neill Blomkamp: “Dude… Do I like ‘Star Trek’ on its own without the politics of making it? Yes, absolutely. But do I think that you could make it in the way that I would want to make it? Probably not, which makes me not want to make it.”

Corporate greed (and control) ruins everything… =(

looks like REAL Trek (& Sci-Fi) is a thing of the past… =(

169. Lt. Bailey - July 12, 2013

I nice 50th Annv film would be great and even better to have as many of the previous actors involved (my opinion/feeling only) if at all possible. But a film is needed by 2016.

No more 4 year waits, that is what may have been one of the reasons the film did not do as well as expected. The earlier films had maybe 2 years apart for the next in line. 4 years was just too long and some steam stopped being generated between 2009 and 2013.

170. larryl - July 12, 2013

#167 Ahmed
I wish that, too, but it can’t and won’t happen. And probably shouldn’t. However, please don’t rehash TOS stories and events into the new timeline. Take the characters and premise and make something new and original. Let us keep the old Trek how it worked and how we liked it. I can like a “new” Trek if they don’t try to make it the new “old” Trek.

I don’t like the new bridge because I’m used to the old 1960′s vision of the future, but the new bridge is a 21st century vision of the future. I don’t like trying to believe that the big E can fly within a planet’s atmosphere and that’s why we have the transporter (and that’s because the TV show budget was too constrained for the special effects), but in the 21st century Trek this is a little more believeable, so why not.

Don’t mix old wine with new, and don’t mix classic Trek with the reboot. It just doesn’t work.

Maybe someday when computer generated characters become hyper-realistic, we could see our old characters come to life in original, TOS-style stories!

171. CJS - July 12, 2013

The big problem with this franchise is that it has gotten caught up in the Hollywood super-blockbuster category that mostly produces mindless films featuring pointless destruction. But even under the direction of a hack like Abrams Star Trek can’t be about mindlessness or destruction, and so fails to compete with the comic book and toy based movies that can.Star Trek should be about space, you know, the final frontier, and a crew exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life forms and new civilizations and boldly going where no one has gone before. There can be danger, suspense, even terror but let’s cool it with destroying planets and wrecking cities.

172. Greg2600 - July 12, 2013

What’s next? New director, producer, writers.

173. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#103. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

Indeed, but for me, Cameron’s DARK ANGEL TV series had covered the drone issue in flickering images just prior and after 9/11.

#123. raffie – July 12, 2013

That’s an uncalled for but, perhaps, unintentional slam against the first version of Trek to win an Emmy.

174. LizardGirl - July 12, 2013

@165 Phil
Some fans were irritated that Mr. Nimoy was in stid. How would they feel when actors not just from the original series, but also from TNG show up? And what logical plotline allows for that without seeming forced?

175. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 174. LizardGirl – July 12, 2013

“Some fans were irritated that Mr. Nimoy was in stid. How would they feel when actors not just from the original series, but also from TNG show up? And what logical plotline allows for that without seeming forced?”

It is not the same thing. I didn’t like having Nimoy in STID because he was there only as a living google that answer questions & it was ridiculous to have him for the second time & not give Shatner a chance.

For the 50th anniversary, I don’t want a movie that focus only on the new kids, they should bring some of the characters from TOS & TNG era & give us a good thing without any of the crap that we saw in STID.

Paramount should hire new writers as well, not just a new director.

176. JTK2099 - July 12, 2013

I sincerely wish that Orci, Kurtzman, and Bad Robot would just leave Star Trek alone and do something else. They just don’t seem to “get” what makes Trek work. Star Trek was never intended to be like Star Wars. It’s at it’s best when it’s a human drama that is deeply character driven. I don’t go see Star Trek to watch a non-stop orgy of CGI action sequences. And Starfleet officers should be noble characters, not people who have a lover’s quarrel while on duty.

177. TUP - July 12, 2013

@33 you ask if Skyfall needed Connery. Well I wasnt a big fan of Skyfall but one thing apparent to me, when Bond went to his old country estate, if the old guy who helped him had been Connery, I would have jumped out of me seat and cheered.

Another point in favour of the next movie combining the timelines and characters is to “conclude” the story arch began in the first Abrams movie. End it with us back in the original time line.

I’d also favour that leading into a new series that focuses on the temporal cops which obviously provides a crap-ton of options for where to go and what to explore.

178. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

Reading the posts, I’m glad to see that more fans really want Star Trek movies to be back to the prime timeline.

179. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#170. larryl – July 12, 2013

Hmmm…maybe it’s time to cure this whole transwarp transporter problem by writing out the transporter altogether? Some side-effect of transwarp transporting has polluted the quantum space used to make transporters work and rendered all transporting inoperative? I mean, you are right it was only invented to get around the expensive fx costs of then which VOYAGER proved no longer exist.

180. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

Well, I sure hope this idea doesn’t intersect Trek’s future:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-sharknado-social-media-twitter-20130712,0,2988809.story

“I am going to write the Sharknado sequel and I am going to do it before Shaknado is over.” – Damon Lindelof

181. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 180. Disinvited – July 12, 2013

“Well, I sure hope this idea doesn’t intersect Trek’s future:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-sharknado-social-media-twitter-20130712,0,2988809.story

“I am going to write the Sharknado sequel and I am going to do it before Shaknado is over.” – Damon Lindelof”

Lindelof is the perfect guy to write Sharknado sequel. He is good in writing mindless dumb movies without any internal logic whatsoever. Maybe we should send letters to Syfy to hire him :)

182. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#178. Ahmed – July 12, 2013

Well, I think Trek is big enough to have both. I never accepted this “diluted” franchise with too much Trek excuse. It was never the Trek that was too much. If anything, it was the drek.

183. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

Your sense of the history of drone warfare is way off.

Also, I remember enjoying Dark Angel and have no idea what you are referring to.

>173. Disinvited – July 12, 2013
#103. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

Indeed, but for me, Cameron’s DARK ANGEL TV series had covered the drone issue in flickering images just prior and after 9/11.

184. Merchant of Vulcan - July 12, 2013

More than half of the TOS stories were to one degree or another horror stories with an action/adventure slant (distress calls, missing ships, monsters who were on occasion benevolent). To say that the show expounded on a brighter future for humanity and gentle space exploration is simply incorrect. Maybe TNG but not TOS. One has to be concerned that a return to television would involve a weekly dose of social studies at the expense of all else.

185. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#183. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

Since I haven’t mentioned the history of drone warfare and I only referred to the history of DARK ANGEL’s airing, it is difficult to see as to what you are responding? Specifically, I was referring to the show’s 2019 prominent weaponized eyes-in-the-skies surveillance platforms that patrolled the cities and were used to execute citizens without trial.

186. Alec - July 12, 2013

Why did STID not do so well? Simple:

1. The gap between Trek 2009 and STID was too long: the goodwill and excitement generated by the first film had well and truly died come 2013. There’s little point introducing characters if such a long time elapses that we forget them!

2. Two factors which irked plenty of fans: one, JJ’s announcement that he would direct Star Wars which happened a very short time before release of STID; two, the identity of the villain and his place in the franchise.

3. This is only the second film of ‘new Trek’. It will take time to bring people around to this new style, particularly those who never watched ‘Old Trek’: it was unrealistic to think that Trek 2009 would have instantly and permanently made Trek ‘cool’. STID lacked the novelty factor of Trek 2009.

4. Lack of A-listers. The highest-grossing films have Hollywood Stars in them and that alone generates revenue. Trek has a cast of up-and-coming, largely unknown talent. They don’t have Cruise, RDJ or Wil Smith, for instance…

187. Bob Tompkins - July 12, 2013

12 episode seasons on CBS owned Showtime to immediately follow up the third movie. The Orcis and the Lindeloffs of the world are vastly overrated as writers. I could have written a successful Transformers movie. Anyone could. Until these names are no longer the first names mentioned when a project is first approached, mediocrity is guaranteed. [see Promethius and Cowboys and Aliens. The movie watching public sure didn't.]

188. Phil - July 12, 2013

I continue to be amazed that some of the s**ttiest plot devices to spew from the lower end of the Trek digestive tract keep getting tossed out as great ideas for the next movie. It’s just amazing how virtually no one here (myself included) has ever written and sold anything, yet we know better.

If it’s that easy, come on, someone man up and put that sure fire winner “Kirk meets Borg screwing Gorn while resetting timeline while searching for whales with buddy Mitchel during Uhura vs. T’Pring catfight during temporal Klingon excursion” script on paper. Go ahead, sell it….

189. sonarman - July 12, 2013

Yes,Showtime and a 12-15 episode show would perhaps be a good way to go. Now that Showtime’s great “Dexter” series is close to completion it would be interesting to see that writing team (which includes former Enterprise writer Manny Coto take the reigns on a new Trek series.

190. Barney - July 12, 2013

186. Alec – July 12, 2013
Why did STID not do so well? Simple:

1. The gap between Trek 2009 and STID was too long: the goodwill and excitement generated by the first film had well and truly died come 2013. There’s little point introducing characters if such a long time elapses that we forget them!

2. Two factors which irked plenty of fans: one, JJ’s announcement that he would direct Star Wars which happened a very short time before release of STID; two, the identity of the villain and his place in the franchise.

3. This is only the second film of ‘new Trek’. It will take time to bring people around to this new style, particularly those who never watched ‘Old Trek’: it was unrealistic to think that Trek 2009 would have instantly and permanently made Trek ‘cool’. STID lacked the novelty factor of Trek 2009.

4. Lack of A-listers. The highest-grossing films have Hollywood Stars in them and that alone generates revenue. Trek has a cast of up-and-coming, largely unknown talent. They don’t have Cruise, RDJ or Wil Smith, for instance…

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Will and Tom’s last films have both been box office disappointments. RDJ is still leaving off Iron man and Avengers.

191. The Keeper - July 12, 2013

I see no reason why Paramount shouldn’t continue with making films in this current timeline.
I will give Abrams a huge thumb’s up for assembling an expert cast actors to portray each of our most beloved characters.
It is my opinion that their involvement should be stymied because of a slight faulting at the box office which is mostly to blame on over anticipating by chief Paramount analyst in their over projections of what the film will make.
Could the sequel have made more?
Yes.
But Paramount and all studio’s will have to come to the conclusion that the target audience and even the general audience is NOT AS STUPID AS YOU AHERE TO!!!
Wake up for Crying out loud.
Stop playing it safe with these mega roller coaster rides which merely duplicate what every other friggin franchise is doing.
Can’t you see that even those are faulting left and write.

You have this wonderful cast of actors. Use them to your advantage.
Rid your selves of these bozo writes you have.
Look at their weak films.
All they can do is write one failure story plot of film after another.
Really, i this what you want Paramount?
I think not.
Get rid of this writing team of idoits, not only on Star Trek, but all your films.
These guys suck. Get over it and move on already.

Abrams can’t direct but Bad Robot can still produce.
Fine.
Hire a fine craftmen director. I don’t care if they “know” Trek or not.
They just need to be good solid directors.

As for finding eat original stories.
Do what Star Trek has been best at doing thru it’s TV history.
Fan out and contact the best Sci Fi writers currently out there.
Ask them to summit story ideas and outlines.
Every film should be a stand alone piece any way.

So if the eyes of Paramount are actually reading this, start paying attention.
Your greatest success lies not what has been done before.
But what has never been done before.

And don’t over expect great unheard of returns.
Star Trek fans are cheap.
While it’s true you will need to keep one eye and one ear on what the fan’s say, even the far gone fanatic fan, you also need to keep one eye and one ear on the general audience also.
But always keep in mind that you can’t simply copy and expect the same from what other franchises are doing. You must cultivate and grow your own franchise in the best logical fashion that fits it’s own needs.

But chief among things you the studio must do is terminate Lindelof , Orci and Kurtzman
They can’t write or think of original stories to save their lives.
Come to grips with it folks.
They suck.
they ruin and degenerate everything they are involved in.
That muck HISTORY HAS SHOW!

PARAMOUNT PLEASE LEARN FOR CHRIST SAKES!!!!!

192. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

HUGE difference between how Tom Cruise’s latest and Will Smith’s have done.

RDJ has not one but two huge franchise characters at once — Tony Stark and Sherlock Holmes.

193. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

Pointless to discuss this since you say you didn’t say what you said, namely that drones were done to death in the Dark Angel TV series.

Which is well before drone strikes were in widespread use as they are today.

And as if anyone remembers your version of what happened in an old Tv show canceled for low ratings.

>185. Disinvited – July 12, 2013
#183. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

Since I haven’t mentioned the history of drone warfare and I only referred to the history of DARK ANGEL’s airing, it is difficult to see as to what you are responding? Specifically, I was referring to the show’s 2019 prominent weaponized eyes-in-the-skies surveillance platforms that patrolled the cities and were used to execute citizens without trial.

194. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

I have no preference for where the next movie goes. Just as long as it’s new and not a recycled rehash.

I do have an idea for how to boost it with a subplot.

Since Kirk is the son of Thor, and since his father figure Pike, the fabulous Bruce Greenwood, died so tragically, let’s bring Chris Hemsworth back via some old films a la Iron Man 2 to help Kirk sort out his feelings with regard to the father he never knew, whose absence so dramatically affected his life before Pike put him on the right course.

Now that we’re finally starting on the 5-year mission of exploration, it’s especially a good time for Kirk to take stock of his life. Since his mom is a Starfleet person, he can meet up with her en route.

And Trek can get a telling and large cameo from Hemsworth, whose star is shining pretty bright these days. (And I’m convinced his role as Kirk’s father is what clinched him getting Thor.)

>188. Phil – July 12, 2013

195. john - July 12, 2013

klingons in, me out. end of

196. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#192. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

“Pointless to discuss this since you say you didn’t say what you said, namely that drones were done to death in the Dark Angel TV series.” – WB

Now, I didn’t say I didn’t say that. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the future aspect of most SF that issues can be beaten to death before reality catches up to them.

197. Undiscovered - July 12, 2013

@157. TrekkieJan – July 12, 2013
Very well said TrekkieJan! And since you mentioned Orson Scott Card and Ender’s Game, I wonder how many here are aware of this? Might be of some interest since Orci is also a producer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/07/orson-scott-card-gay-protest_n_3558189.html

http://io9.com/could-the-enders-game-boycott-actually-tank-the-movie-749408769

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2013/07/12/lionsgate-responds-to-enders-game-boycott-threats/

198. Ctrl-Opt-Del - July 12, 2013

If they’re worried about the cost, I WILL WRITE THE NEXT FILM FOR FREE, jus’ puttin’ that out there…

Seriously BOB ORCI, have your people talk to my people… Well, I don’t have any “people”, but you can contact me about it…

199. Undiscovered - July 12, 2013

What happened to my post?

200. Killamarshtrek - July 12, 2013

Can anyone tell me why this news isn’t on here?

http://www.idwpublishing.com/news/article/2609/

What has happened to his site?

I think this may be what boborci may have been alluding to when I asked him on here why there was no explanation for ‘Khan’s’ change of ethnicity and he replied with something like “nothing in the film precludes a future explanation”!

201. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 197. Killamarshtrek – July 12, 2013

“Can anyone tell me why this news isn’t on here?”

Well, maybe because no one really care about any “explanation” about Khan since there was no need for the character to be in STID to begin with.

And Matt Wright is doing his best so far in updating the site.

202. Undiscovered - July 12, 2013

Again, why did my previous post disappear, then reappear, then disappear again!?! WTF!

203. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#197. Killamarshtrek – July 12, 2013

Can’t really say, but I do note this appearing:

“STAR TREK: KHAN is a licensed product of CBS Consumer Products.”

in the article would seem to douse the flames roaring about CBS licensing problems.

204. Jim Elliott - July 12, 2013

Go back to TV and back to the original versions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO1nvmDjofo&feature=share

205. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 200. Disinvited – July 12, 2013

“in the article would seem to douse the flames roaring about CBS licensing problems.”

Is there an article that address this CBS licensing issues & the problems with Abrams ?

206. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

Come on, if anyone today is not aware of the moral quandary and tough choices of Drone usage in warfare, then they probably don’t care in general about big issues and keeping up on the news, etc. etc., anyway.

Sheesh, the moral issues with drones have been covered to death, including the first two seasons of Homeland, The Bourne Legacy, Dark Angel, etc. And hell, way back in the 80′s, the Tom Clancy’s “Patriot Games” movie even covered some of this territory.

William, I think you fall victim to those in the media that seem to think that we in “the stupid public” don’t understand what the benefits, costs and moral implications are of using drones.

This topic has been beat to death, and it really didn’t need an entire Star Trek movie to educate the public on it.

207. Khan 2.0 - July 12, 2013

@184

yes Its often forgotten that the original series had an eerie, supernatural atmosphere not unlike ‘The Twilight Zone. the Enterprise alone charting a haunted universe that hid some deeply strange and frightening things…..

208. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

And, if you think about it, if just the single photon torpedo were sent to the Klingon homeworld’s remote region to take out Khan, 100′s of lives, including both Klingon and Federation citizens would have been saved.

Orci and the writers really come up with an “all or nothing” false case against drones — in their version, you need a crazy admiral that will launch all 72 drones at the Klingons — this forces the audience to include that these drone attacks are very bad — whereas, if they were simply sending a “legitimate drone” to take out Khan singularly — well, that would present a much less cut and dry case.

It’s easy to say no to drones when you have a crazy admiral who wants to use them to start a way. It’s a lot harder to say no to a single legitimate drone that would have just taken out Khan. To me, that would have been much more interesting and meaningful to today’s events.

209. NuFan - July 12, 2013

The 90s ended a long, long time ago. You can’t have them back. You would kill Paramount with your idiotic longing for the distant past.

210. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

And remember, in ST-2009, Spock himself is the one who wants to completely destroy Nero’s ship and kill them all, without due process, even telling Kirk not to negotiate our offer help to Nero and his crew.

Why does Spock act so differently in STID? Why all of a sudden does he want the due process for Khan that he was not willing to give Nero?

Seems inconsistent at best; hypocritical at worst.

211. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 204. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013

“And, if you think about it, if just the single photon torpedo were sent to the Klingon homeworld’s remote region to take out Khan, 100′s of lives, including both Klingon and Federation citizens would have been saved.”

I’m not sure about that. If the Federation attacked my homeworld with a drone, even a single drone, I will consider that an act of war against my people. And we are talking here about the Klingon homeworld, not a small planet out in the rim.

“This topic has been beat to death, and it really didn’t need an entire Star Trek movie to educate the public on it.”

I do agree with you about that. There was really no need to have a whole movie to address that issue. But I guess, they needed something to write in the movie, because you know, FOUR YEARS is not enough to come up with an interesting fresh Trek story !!!

212. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#199. Undiscovered – July 12, 2013

I can only speculate from personal experience and have no inside information on the nature of the exact problem. It appears to me that this site has a wonky obscenity filter. More than one server seems to be involved but their lists of character sequences to hold for approval by moderator don’t all appear to be in sync. So, depending on which server random chance causes this page to be served to you, your message may appear or disappear until the moderator clears the hold (assuming lack of any actually banned obscenity)

This I why I would advise most attempting to post here to exercise more patience than normal as the very real possibility exists that someone replying to you has not been able to see all that you contribute.

FWIW: If there’s no holiday it seems to take a maximum of about 3 days for TPTB to decide any issues the automatic filters may have after which time your message may be deleted for violating any of the following:

“TAKE NOTE: The usual rules of decorum apply (family friendly, no flaming, trolling, being annoying, etc).”

or appear for all to see and comment upon.

213. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 205. NuFan – July 12, 2013

“The 90s ended a long, long time ago. You can’t have them back. You would kill Paramount with your idiotic longing for the distant past.”

I take it that you didn’t get the memo :) Hollywood is busy remaking movies from the 90s.

===============================
With These 10 Shows And Movies Returning To A Screen Near You, The Nineties Are Officially Back

http://www.businessinsider.com/kirstie-alley-dancing-with-stars-ralph-macchio-karina-smirnoff-pia-toscano-mark-ballas-hanson-2011-4?op=1

===============================
And for the record, I believe the Trek of the 90s were the best Trek. And 90s in general is my favorite decade in term of the movies & TV at that time.

214. NuFan - July 12, 2013

209

Thanks for proving my point. Don’t hold your breath waiting for job offers from Paramount.

215. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

# 201. Ahmed – July 12, 2013

There is a rumory gossipy thing from THE WRAP that’s been infinitely quoted, but their “inside” source’s facts don’t jibe with what I understand from far more credible reporting.

216. MJ - July 12, 2013

@207 “I’m not sure about that. If the Federation attacked my homeworld with a drone, even a single drone, I will consider that an act of war against my people. And we are talking here about the Klingon homeworld, not a small planet out in the rim.”

Possibly, but Orci and the writers never gave us that choice. Rather, they forced us to be 100% against this idea by have a crazy admiral that wanted to send 72 torpedos, not just the one.

So they were a bit dishonest in my opinion of forcing a moral choice on us where it was impossible not to agree with their view.

217. Th Keeper - July 12, 2013

Paramount needs to let go of Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof as the wrting team. They can’t write and they produce nothing but the same old blandness.
Paramount needs to learn not to play it what they call “safe” with these guys as writers.
Get over it. They suck.
Look at all the failures of the productions they have been involved in.

Paramount needs to fan out, et real scifi writers to submit real scifi stories, then and only then will the film franchise be able to come into it’s own with all the grand effects and action scenes they want…the difference being an intelligent real home cooked scifi story completely original.

Paramount needs to learn they are NOT going to get this with the current 3 Bozo’s writing.

218. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

I think you like to overwhelm with volume.

Drones weren’t even a thing in the Dark Angel days and they’re getting MUCH bigger as we go forward.

I think also that having a political discussion here is a poor idea. This is the wrong venue with the wrong folks.

It’s not a political movie.

>202. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013
Come on, if anyone today is not aware of the moral quandary and tough choices of Drone usage in warfare, then they probably don’t care in general about big issues and keeping up on the news, etc. etc., anyway.

Sheesh, the moral issues with drones have been covered to death, including the first two seasons of Homeland, The Bourne Legacy, Dark Angel, etc. And hell, way back in the 80′s, the Tom Clancy’s “Patriot Games” movie even covered some of this territory.

William, I think you fall victim to those in the media that seem to think that we in “the stupid public” don’t understand what the benefits, costs and moral implications are of using drones.

219. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

@213. “Paramount needs to let go of Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof as the wrting team. They can’t write and they produce nothing but the same old blandness.
Paramount needs to learn not to play it what they call “safe” with these guys as writers. Get over it. They suck.”

I agree that now is a good time for a change. But, really dude, we owe a major thanks to Bob, JJ and Alex for bringing back Star Trek in a big way.

Grow a bit of maturity here guy and thank them as you also hope for a new team. It’s the right thing to do, and you will feel less infantile about it in the process.

220. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

@214. Agree we don’t need to discuss politics here.

221. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

Good Lord, what a classic example of double talk.

Over and out.

>194. Disinvited – July 12, 2013
#192. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

“Pointless to discuss this since you say you didn’t say what you said, namely that drones were done to death in the Dark Angel TV series.” – WB

Now, I didn’t say I didn’t say that. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the future aspect of most SF that issues can be beaten to death before reality catches up to them.

222. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 211. Disinvited – July 12, 2013

# 201. Ahmed – July 12, 2013
There is a rumory gossipy thing from THE WRAP that’s been infinitely quoted, but their “inside” source’s facts don’t jibe with what I understand from far more credible reporting.”

Thanks, will check that out & see if there are other reports about that.

@215. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013

“I agree that now is a good time for a change. But, really dude, we owe a major thanks to Bob, JJ and Alex for bringing back Star Trek in a big way.”

That was true with ST09 & for that we should thank the team including Bob, Alex & Abrams.

But with STID, it is clear that we need a new team to take care of Star Trek.

223. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@William Bradley

Are you hearing anything from your media sources/friends about the next Trek movie ?

224. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#203. Khan 2.0 – July 12, 2013

Not just that, Trek actually got stories written by writers that wrote for TZ! The recently deceased Richard Matheson comes to mind. Romero, the father of zombies, even credits his inspiring that creation.

225. Devon - July 12, 2013

#218 0 Ahmed – “But with STID, it is clear that we need a new team to take care of Star Trek.” How is it “clear” and to whom? It’s at an 8.2/10 average user rating on IMDB. Rotten Tomatoes it has an 87% Average Critic rating AND a 92% approval rating from users. So please… go on. So obviously it’s not “clear” to the general public or Trek fans who like it, the overwhelming majority of which have a say so.

226. Devon - July 12, 2013

#176 “I sincerely wish that Orci, Kurtzman, and Bad Robot would just leave Star Trek alone and do something else. They just don’t seem to “get” what makes Trek work.” Hey kiddo, up until 2009 Star Trek hadn’t worked in a LONG time.

“It’s at it’s best when it’s a human drama that is deeply character driven.”

So you’re saying there was no human drama? You should go go find something else to do yourself.

227. AnonymousWasAWoman - July 12, 2013

Alfonso Cuarón is a real possibility as director? Fingers so very tightly crossed on that; he’s brilliant. Hope that rumor bears fruit, and hope they’ll announce at the Star Trek convention in Las Vegas. Anybody else going?

228. Dee - lvs moon surface - July 12, 2013

“ZACHARY QUINTO SAYS ‘STAR TREK 3′ WILL SHOOT NEXT YEAR, ABRAMS MAY DIRECT AND MORE”

http://buzzhub.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/zachary-quinto-exclusive/

229. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

202. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013

Indeed, Cameron’s been sounding the cautionary clarion since he introduced the HKs in his first TERMINATOR.

230. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 224. Dee – lvs moon surface – July 12, 2013

““ZACHARY QUINTO SAYS ‘STAR TREK 3′ WILL SHOOT NEXT YEAR, ABRAMS MAY DIRECT AND MORE””

Nothing in that article make sense. Paramount didn’t issue a press release about it. And Abrams is moving to London to start on Star Wars movie.

231. 1 of 57 - July 12, 2013

To change the subject-just put in the blu-ray for Star Trek Nemesis and the preview for Star Trek Into Darkness started as well as a preview of the new GI-Joe.I now these were not on the disc-and yes I now that I am cannected to the internet with the BD-Live.

232. Matt Wright - July 12, 2013

Yep I smell BS on that “interview” which they have no video of, etc.

233. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#226. Ahmed – July 12, 2013

And there’s this:

http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/star-treks-zachary-quinto-eager-play-ewok-star-192000953.html

“I’m sure I’d have a hard time saying no. I’d like to play an Ewok because they’re the best.” – Zachary Quinto

And he expresses doubt about Abrams’ directing.

But neither story is very well sourced.

234. pafan - July 12, 2013

They should release another film in 2016 with a reduced budget and make it the last with the “alternate” universe cast. I thought ID was entertaining on a certain level, but if you even attempt to analyze the plot and tech in the film it very quickly falls apart into mindless nonsense. (Not that TNG films did not get that way, either)
The characters are virtually unrecognizable. Spock does not act like a Vulcan. I really don’t care about these characters. (The “new” NCC-1701 is also barely tolerable-worst Enterprise EVER, IMHO)

It’s time for “The Voyage Home” to TV. Maybe they should go the cable route and do 13 episode seasons. (Although I would prefer at least 22 shows a year) Get a Trek vet such as Ron Moore as showrunner (I have forgiven him for the abomination called Star Trek Generations) and then fill the rest of the writing staff with a mix of people with & without Star Trek experience. Set it on an Enterprise, perhaps the Enterprise B. (Go back to the prime universe!) Keep the basic TV series formula but go into DS9 mode and do continuing story arcs with a mix of self-contained episodes. Bring back actual character conflict. And actually get out there and explore. The current movies are not doing that.

Let Star Trek 2009 die a quick death after movie number three…….

235. pafan - July 12, 2013

Based on what the article said, I did the math (rather quickly) and put the profit of ID at about $76,000,000. Am I about right on that or did I miss something?

236. Marja - July 12, 2013

178 Ahmed,
Not me, man. I loved it for a long time, but it’s been done. to. death. With wayyy too much backstory for any moviegoer or TV watcher who’s never seen Trek to be able to understand/pick up. Bore, bore, bore. I like the AU because there are limitless possiblities [and I hope they will be explored next movie] and I like the younger characters and cast. Not so crazy about all the “relentless” [poundingcrazy] action, but I did love the story bits that got squeezed in.

193 Wm B, Your lips to [ ___]‘s ear. I love Chris Hemsworth as George Kirk, wouldn’t that be a great 3 or 5 minute bit? SOLD!!!

206 MJ, Imho, the difference between what Nero did to Spock [killed off his whole planet and nearly all Vulcans] in the first movie vice what Khan did is HUGE. Plus Spock may have known just how fast Nero was slippin’ into the danger zone or singularity or whatev. At least that’s my retcon, and I’m stickin’ to it :) Agree with your point in 212, re: moral complexity, but that is rarer than hens’ teeth in a summer blockbuster, ho-hum, sorry to keep trotting that one out. Summer Blockbuster seems to excuse just about everything to do with silly plot devices :P

I do love a lot of the character moments Orci and Kurtzman wrote; that scene in Pike’s office was funny, then sobering; the scene on the Bridge when they discuss rescuing Spock was great … I could go on, but suffice it to say that I feel this script [except for the nature of the S/U interactions, and the KHANNN business] was in some ways better than ST2009 … at least the villain was, if only he hadn’t been a vanilla villain, or had been an outright vanilla villain ;)

224, Dee … Wahhhhh – HOOOO!!!! Let’s go!

223 AnonWoman: Cuaron, I did not know, but having looked up his creds, OMG please Paramount HIRE HIM. Also, would love to do LVCon, had I but bucks enough and time …

We might even get some Science Fiction up in here. :D

237. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 234. Marja – July 12, 2013

“I like the AU because there are limitless possiblities [and I hope they will be explored next movie] and I like the younger characters and cast.”

And here is the problem with the AU. They rebooted Star Trek to get away from it complex backstory & explore new stories in the AU. Only problem is, that they ended up rehashing same old stuff from the Prime Universe. There was no “limitless possibilities” in the AU for them to explore.

238. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 233. Disinvited – July 12, 2013

“#226. Ahmed – July 12, 2013

And there’s this:

http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/star-treks-zachary-quinto-eager-play-ewok-star-192000953.html

But neither story is very well sourced.”

Yeah, they don’t seem to be veritable interviews.

239. Sebastian S. - July 12, 2013

# 64

Vultan~

My sentiments EXACTLY.
Well said.

I wish we’d see a ST that is about more than ‘stopping the bad guys’.
The current writers are too busy mining bits and chunks from “Wrath of Khan” to put their OWN stamp on the Star Trek mythos. They borrow lines, ideas, visual homages and even whole scenes from WoK. Enough, already. It’s like we wait every few years for an cut and paste screenplay full of empty spectacle.

Yes, new writers please!

240. Phil - July 12, 2013

@228. Some hack blogger making s**t up.

241. Curious Cadet - July 12, 2013

@200. Killamarshtrek,
“I think this may be what boborci may have been alluding to when I asked him on here why there was no explanation for ‘Khan’s’ change of ethnicity”

I wouldn’t hold your breath.

242. Devon - July 12, 2013

“I wish we’d see a ST that is about more than ‘stopping the bad guys’.
The current writers are too busy mining bits and chunks from “Wrath of Khan” ”

No, the current writers are busy being gainfully employed. You, on the other hand, are not.

“They borrow lines, ideas, visual homages and even whole scenes from WoK. ” You’re not going anywhere with exaggerations. Otherwise I can say that you’ve littered this thread with your idiotic ramblings that consisted of you making it up as you go along.

“Yes, new writers please!”

New posters please!

243. Dee - lvs moon surface - July 12, 2013

#230. Ahmed

Well, it’s “Zachary Quinto” and is not the first time he says something like this, I remember that he said in another interview during the promotion of film he thought, he hoped they would be shooting soon… don’t ask me about this link because I saw a lot of interview but I swear I remember ZQ saying something like this before, I think he knows something… btw, he certainly knows more than me about this subject! ;-)

244. Phil - July 12, 2013

Well, Paramount’s first look contract has been very lucrative for both companies, so we need to just put to rest any more crazy talk about Paramount firing anyone – isn’t going to happen.

Now, this contract was just extended to the end of 2015…let it sink in, so, do we want to handicap if BR is going to take on a project that is likely to extend beyond 2015? My guess is one of two things will happen – BR takes a pass on the next movie, or BR gets another extension of the contract. Either reason is a likely explanation for why there has not been an announcement on the next installment….

245. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

Thanks, I think it would be a great quick subplot that would really resonate. Every man has to come to grips, one way or another, with his father.

And his relationship with his mom must be at least somewhat fraught.

>234. Marja – July 12, 2013

193 Wm B, Your lips to [ ___]‘s ear. I love Chris Hemsworth as George Kirk, wouldn’t that be a great 3 or 5 minute bit? SOLD!!!

246. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

That’s just wildly wrong. Especially since drones are becoming much more important than before.

I just wrote a column in fact on the incredible new AI drone that can land on a Navy aircraft carrier.

That’s something the Chinese can’t do with their manned aircraft yet!

This is one of the reasons why the world of the Terminator is even more relevant now.

>206. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013
Come on, if anyone today is not aware of the moral quandary and tough choices of Drone usage in warfare, then they probably don’t care in general about big issues and keeping up on the news, etc. etc., anyway.

Sheesh, the moral issues with drones have been covered to death, including the first two seasons of Homeland, The Bourne Legacy, Dark Angel, etc. And hell, way back in the 80′s, the Tom Clancy’s “Patriot Games” movie even covered some of this territory.

William, I think you fall victim to those in the media that seem to think that we in “the stupid public” don’t understand what the benefits, costs and moral implications are of using drones.

This topic has been beat to death, and it really didn’t need an entire Star Trek movie to educate the public on it.

247. DUNN - July 12, 2013

Would love a film where a war with the Klingons is averted by a Borg incursion. This is learned through an opening where Kor and the IKS Klothos land on Organia and, rather than finding the peaceful Organians, Kor and crew are attacked by Borg, though not fully seen just yet. Another Nibiru-type adventure would follow (would personally love to see the gangster episode of TOS re-interpreted as a quick adventure with cameos by M’Ress and Arex). After the mission, the Enterprise is hailed by Admiral Nogura, telling them of the attacks on both Federation and Klingon Empire worlds by a mysterious mechanoid race. Kirk and crew are forced to ally with the Klingon Empire and take on a Klingon ambassador, Gorkon (Lance Reddick), and his body guard/military advisor, Chang (Idris Elba). Before long, Kirk seems to find evidence of sabotage and assumes it is Chang, along with the audience. Also, Kirk and Marcus have become more and more romantically involved since the events of STID and he worries about their future when Bones accidentally reveals a female crew member is pregnant. In this way, Kirk is forced to grow up in both his dealings with the Klingons and his dealings with Marcus. Meanwhile, Uhura and Spock continue to deal with Spock’s balance of his human and Vulcan natures, with Spock contemplating the option of completing Kolinahr training and Uhura makes the claim that she will follow him wherever he decides to go, effectively defining their relationship as fairly concrete. Also, Spock discovers that the Narada and Nero were assimilated by the Borg and that his hate now guides them. Basically, we would see that the Narada wreckage was transported via black hole at the end of ST09 to the Delta Quadrant, Borg pick up the signature of Red Matter and elevate assimilation of the Alpha Quadrant to top level priority. They ally themselves with Romulan Empire who are now in possession of Red Matter and begin to attack both the Klingon Empire and the Federation. Nero has taken the position of Locutus of Borg with a seemingly submissive Borg Queen (Mara Rooney) at his side. Eventually, however, the Borg destroy Romulus and decimate the Romulan race without Nero’s knowledge, showing the Borg Queen’s true devious nature. During the ultimate battle with the Borg, Klingon ships turn on their Federation allies and begin attacking, with Gorkon ultimately revealing himself as the true “bad guy”. Kirk and Marcus take on Gorkon on a Klingon vessel while Uhura and Spock beam over to a Borg cube to work on a hunch. Gorkon ultimately kills Marcus with Kirk watching, and he believes that she and his child have been murdered just as he has decided that he must take responsibility for his life and work towards maturity. Kirk captures Gorkon, forcing him to answer to the Klingon High Command and the Federation, and in not killing him, proves to himself that he is capable of maturation. While on the Borg cube, Spock mind-melds with what is left of Nero and convinces him that Romulus has been destroyed again, despite all his efforts towards the preservation of the Romulan race. In a moment of clarity, Nero/Locutus destroys the Borg Queen and self-destructs the Borg fleet in the Alpha Quadrant. Somewhere in the proceedings, Uhura reveals that she is actually the one who is pregnant, not Marcus, much to Spock’s surprise. Nero kills himself along with the Borg fleet, and allows a final psychic link with Spock. He does not apologize, but flashes an image of his wife and unborn child in Spock’s mind. The end of the film sees Kirk offered a position as the Fleet Captain of a new group of ships preparing for a massive exploratory mission of the Beta Quadrant. He turns it down, deciding to resign his commission, but remains on reserve status as he contemplates Admiral Pike and his father and the sacrifices they made in the name of duty and the sacrifices he has endured. Spock tells Uhura that he will help her to raise their child on his homeworld, as his meld with Nero ultimately affected him very deeply. Uhura assumes he means New Vulcan, but Spock actually means Earth. Spock Prime has a cameo at the end as well, making it known that he is leading the Reunification efforts between the survivors of Romulus’ destruction and the New Vulcan citizens and sharing a moment with Kirk and Spock, telling them that there is no precedent for their destinies, as things have diverged greatly from his timeline, but despite this, he has faith in them and congratulates them on achieving great things. Film ends on footage of the Enterprise being extensively remodeled. This all allows for a “back in the saddle again” adventure for a possible 4th film.

248. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

Nope, nothing beyond the likelihood there is another.

>223. Ahmed – July 12, 2013
@William Bradley

Are you hearing anything from your media sources/friends about the next Trek movie ?

249. Yanks - July 12, 2013

“Add to that the demographics of the people who paid to see Star Trek Into Darkness (only 25% were under 25, much less than the 35% that the first film attracted according to The Wrap)”

How the hell do they know that? There is no such information on the movie tickets I buy.

250. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

BTW, STID isn’t about drones at all.

Those are not drones!

>206. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013

This topic has been beat to death, and it really didn’t need an entire Star Trek movie to educate the public on it.

251. The Observer - July 12, 2013

I remain disappointed that 80% of the posters on this site are the same guy.

Including me.

252. Vultan - July 12, 2013

#237

I don’t mind Trek with bad guys. I just don’t want bad guys who seem so… typical, so cut and paste. I read a review saying they took Khan in a new direction with STID. I didn’t see that.

Sure, he was in a different scenario. But he was still wrathful. Still duplicitous. Still tyrannical. Pretty much the same character… only a lot more pale… and a bit more skull-crushy.

253. Phil - July 12, 2013

@244. My youngest son is off to college in a year, and is looking at computer/software engineering programs in the area. Sat in on a ‘get acquainted’ session, and where robotics is now is scary. My other son is in the Navy, and they are really playing up the carrier landings. The X-47B is much bigger then the Predator drones – no one is saying it yet, but the days of the fighter pilot are numbered.

This entire article is good, but skip down to the part about the singularity, and how Trek got Commander Data wrong. if there is one thing that disappoints me about this new universe, the producers were presented with a golden opportunity to update the franchise, and they punted. This version of Trek is still deeply rooted in 1960′s era sci-fi, unfortunately. Judging from a number of comments, that seems to be where a portion of the fan base would like it to stay.

http://io9.com/5906586/its-time-to-move-past-star-treks-anachronistic-vision-of-the-future

254. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@Phil

“This version of Trek is still deeply rooted in 1960′s era sci-fi, unfortunately. Judging from a number of comments, that seems to be where a portion of the fan base would like it to stay. ”

I think if they brought back Ron Moore, he will bring with him that fresh sci-fi aspect that you are talking about, not to mention character developments that Moore knows a thing or two about!

255. Greg - July 12, 2013

@251 Phil: There will always be a need for fighter pilots. AI drones are too dangerous (no way to control them if they go rogue) and remote piloting is just a signal jam away from losing your multi million dollar aircraft.

Just like there is no substitute for boots on the ground there is no substitute for brave, skilled men in the cockpit.

256. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

Good article on the rather staid futurism of Star Trek. io9 is an interesting site.

Don’t know that it’s going to get that alternative and cyberpunkish, though I’m a big cyberpunk fan, but it’s an interesting counterpoint to the Asimov/Heinlein tropes of ’60s Trek.

Data is a remarkably self-effacing super-being, isn’t he?

The X-47B is a pretty awesome machine. It makes the Predator look like a model airplane. Cruising speed of Mach 0.9, nearly four times that of the Predator, range a couple times greater soon to be vastly greater after next year’s mid-air refueling trials, and it looks uncannily like something out of the Terminator universe.

I think there will always be a role for the manned fighter, but this thing will in only a few years vastly expand carrier air wing capability, taking over virtually all the risky intelligence/surveillance/reconnaissance/targeting missions, with the capability to deliver big air strikes all its own.

With the carrier platform — and the Chinese Navy is still working on carrier take-offs, much less landings, with their manned aircraft — the drone will see a quantum leap forward, needing no compliant government for controversial land bases vulnerable to terrorist attack and political upheaval, allowing the carrier strike group to hang far back out of harm’s way from anti-ship missiles while all preparatory missions are undertaken.

Of course, once people around the world figure out what is happening, they will flip out over our vastly enhanced capability, fearing what’s being done with the more rudimentary drones of today already.

>251. Phil – July 12, 2013
@244. My youngest son is off to college in a year, and is looking at computer/software engineering programs in the area. Sat in on a ‘get acquainted’ session, and where robotics is now is scary. My other son is in the Navy, and they are really playing up the carrier landings. The X-47B is much bigger then the Predator drones – no one is saying it yet, but the days of the fighter pilot are numbered.

This entire article is good, but skip down to the part about the singularity, and how Trek got Commander Data wrong. if there is one thing that disappoints me about this new universe, the producers were presented with a golden opportunity to update the franchise, and they punted. This version of Trek is still deeply rooted in 1960′s era sci-fi, unfortunately. Judging from a number of comments, that seems to be where a portion of the fan base would like it to stay.

http://io9.com/5906586/its-time-to-move-past-star-treks-anachronistic-vision-of-the-future

257. dmduncan - July 12, 2013

How can what STID is portraying be “well worn” while drone attacks continue?

AFTER the movie came out Obama promised more transparency and oversight about his drone policy. If he’s the Star Trek fan he likes us to think he is, it is not unreasonable to speculate that the film may have either caused some reflection or reinforced some reflection on the policy he was already having.

The timing of his expressed sentiments was curious, at any rate.

***

Saw WWZ. Liked it a lot more than I thought I would. Best movies of the summer for me so far:

Star Trek Into Darkness.
Man of Steel.
Now You See Me.
World War Z.

258. dmduncan - July 12, 2013

But even if the film had NOTHING at all to do with Obama reflecting on his drone policy, the FACT that his reflections came out AFTER the release of STID again shows that the content of the film was TIMELY, not “worn.’

259. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

I agree that we will always need human pilots in the mix. But the risk, and numbers can be greatly reduced as more “routine” but no still quite risky missions are turned over to the robots.

Let’s not forget human error, which I suspect will be more of a problem than algorithmic error in the future.

Look at the jetliner crash last weekend in San Francisco. Absolutely pilot error, even with two pilots on hand. And increasingly the machine flies those planes anyway.

Had the automated landing system at SFO not been done, the crash probably wouldn’t have happened, because they wouldn’t have come in too slow on approach, clipping the sea wall, etc.

Of course, there was a classic TOS episode on this very issue …

“Regards to Captain Dunzel.”

>253. Greg – July 12, 2013
@251 Phil: There will always be a need for fighter pilots. AI drones are too dangerous (no way to control them if they go rogue) and remote piloting is just a signal jam away from losing your multi million dollar aircraft.

Just like there is no substitute for boots on the ground there is no substitute for brave, skilled men in the cockpit.

260. NuTrek - July 12, 2013

The obvious solution given the two studios issue, is TV series can be Prime Universe, albeit a more mainstreamed iteration of it, and JJverse films.

261. William Bradley - July 12, 2013

Changing the subject from the same usually unhappy chewings, who is up for Pacific Rim?

262. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@WB

I’m a big fan of Japanese sci-fi anime, specially the ones with giant robots :)
That why I will go and see Pacific Rim tomorrow. Hopefully it will be as good as they say.

263. Vultan - July 12, 2013

In a way, I saw STID as the filmmakers’ reaction to their own ending from the previous movie. Nero was happily sent into the deep by the gung-ho space military. Bin Laden then met a similar fate.

Maybe STID’s ending is some compensation on their part with Trek ’09′s pop culture influence, some guilty feelings—maybe not—but it’s interesting that STID has the first Star Trek movie villain who survives!

264. Admiral Waugh - July 12, 2013

Well written Joseph, thanks!

265. Admiral Waugh - July 12, 2013

Well written Joseph, thanks!

266. Mad Mann - July 12, 2013

Dude, the writer hit it RIGHT on the head. The next movie SHOULD have a smaller budget and it WILL be better for it. It will be a tighter movie, more focused on character and story rather than action and explosions.

While I was not crazy about STiD, I am really, really excited for the next one. I am no Orci/Kurtzman fan by any means, but I have a sneaky feeling that they will hit the next one out of the park. Like really, really out of the park: past the parking lot! I think that doing the Klingon war is freakin smart. It just had better be about Kor. I mean, really, Kor is just a cool-sounding villain name to start, and he was such a glory-hound from “Errand of Mercy” that I strongly believe that Kor will out-do Khan and Admiral Marcus (and Nero) as the most memorable villain of the new Trek reboot series.

I do hope to see Kang and Mara, but I would be cool with just Kor.

So, Kor and his Klingon war as the main antagonist with a tighter budget to force the film-makers to be more creative to focus on characters equals a win-win-win in my book! AND it would turn a bigger budget than the last movie!

Kor for 2016!

267. Phil - July 12, 2013

@252. Moore has the understanding, but considering that his name is one of the writing credits for Generations, one of the biggest pieces of Trek garbage to ever hit the big screen, he’s not a lock, in my estimation. Generations makes the scripting for either ST09 or STID look downright Shakespearian in comparison….

268. dmduncan - July 12, 2013

Yes to Klingons, NO to Kor. Too small screen.

Introduce a new “K” Klingon who represents something much bigger than an outpost or ship commander as nemesis.

Even if the budget is smaller, the Klingon empire is still big, and we should imply some of that size in how Klingons are portrayed in the sequel.

Think big is my advice, but thinking big doesn’t necessarily mean more and bigger special effects.

269. Ahmed - July 12, 2013

@ 263. Mad Mann – July 12, 2013

” While I was not crazy about STiD, I am really, really excited for the next one. I am no Orci/Kurtzman fan by any means, but I have a sneaky feeling that they will hit the next one out of the park. ”

Unless Orci & Kurtzman come up with something really original & not try to put stuff from previous movies, I doubt they will do that.

“Kor for 2016!”

Are you by any chance nominating Kor for the coming Presidential election in 2016 :)

270. Red Dead Ryan - July 12, 2013

I highly doubt that Obama will reduce the amount of drone use. He has repeatedly said he’d close Guantanamo Bay, and still hasn’t done it, nor will he do it. I don’t think you can trust the man on any word he says.

It will take a future president to cut back on the use of drones. But its more likely that drone use will only continue to increase as countries like Iran, China and Russia continue to develop their own. It’s another arms race, and if the U.S ends its drone program, its doubtful that the other countries will. So now its a vicious cycle, with one country trying to outdo the other.

271. Vultan - July 12, 2013

#267

I think we’ll see drone soldiers on the ground within the next 20 years. Maybe sooner. Not really science fiction anymore. They’re working on it.

272. Best of Both Worlds - July 12, 2013

Well it seem the sequel should continue with the subsequent variables its got: 1. Old Original Spock is still on New Vulcan in the altinate universe,( in which induesively he is the Oldest Star Trek Charater STILL ALIVE(well ..relive of his own rite from ST:III) anyway if he’s still in the alternate timeline should he go back or wait until he got what his father died of? 2.ST:II the first KHAN wanted to get the Genisis device for mass destruction so he stole the Reliant, and the last movie Khan II just used regular destructive and only gain access to the Drednough though chance. Shouldn’t Khan II have been more cunning to get a bigger Mass Destuctive Device with his followers? Also the Alternative Entrpise should be more define of their own Charater rite of what their lives should’ve be deferent than of the first Original crew. Finally I think Captin Kirk(C.Pine) should meet or team up with Captin Kirk(W.Shatner) see what’ll happen.

273. Phil - July 12, 2013

@253. You are never going to get away from having eyes in the sky somewhere, but the handwriting is on the wall now. Drones are in the air, and soon under the sea. Commercial flight now does not need pilots, and a growing number of commuter rail systems are run by remote control. Stealth aircraft pilot themselves now – humans don’t have the reaction times to keep these inherently unstable airframes in the air by manual control, as a matter of fact, the AI on these plans now won’t let the pilot maneuver the aircraft in a fashion that could cause damage. Fast forward this three hundred years, and AI will be flying starships, because at high sub light velocities there is no human that could react to anything in space that quickly. The position of navigator is redundant in the Trek universe, about as useful as a telegraph operator in the 21st century.

274. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

Just back from Pacific Rim. A lot of fun…a lot of fun!

William, you make some good points about drones become more pervasive.

275. Jeff - July 12, 2013

I would like to see them plan out a limited 24 episode TV show centered around the Enterprise and staring all the main actors from the movies. If it is only one season they might could convince all the “movie” stars to contribute.

They should pre-write the entire season to have stand-alone episodes interspersed among a larger seasonal arc. It would allow them to capture some of the other aspects of what makes Star Trek interesting. That is, less of the “save the universe from imminent disaster” and more exploring strange new worlds and getting to know the characters.

They would have more time to explore sci fi concepts that don’t involve an explosion.

276. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#244. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

“This is one of the reasons why the world of the Terminator is even more relevant now.” – William Bradley – July 12, 2013

Indeed, including his other productions that sort of dealt with drone strikes as well.

277. Darkhawk721 - July 12, 2013

I would like to see them make a movie out of the “Mirror Mirror” episode.

278. MJ (The Original). - July 12, 2013

Disinvited, William,

Yes, regarding Terminator. And those points on drones were made decades ago, kind of proving my point about this being covered over the years many times before.

279. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#269. Phil – July 12, 2013

Not to mention you and I live in area of the country where the just OKed hands off totally autodrive vehicles on our roadways. And a couple of states over they’ve legalized non-human attended self-driving vehicles.

280. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#273. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013

Your point? I thought that was my point? Regardless, welcome pleasure to have you on the same team.

281. dmduncan - July 12, 2013

Terminator robots are coming, but I don’t see a humanity vs. machine apocalypse up ahead. What’s more likely is that they’ll be used by some humans to kill others in situations where flesh and blood soldiers might question or disobey orders.

In other words, those psychopaths-in-charge whose modus operandi is to foment revolution are creating the means whereby the profits and inventions of their own successful revolution will be used to prevent anyone from ever revolting against them.

282. dmduncan - July 12, 2013

274. Disinvited – July 12, 2013
#269. Phil – July 12, 2013

Not to mention you and I live in area of the country where the just OKed hands off totally autodrive vehicles on our roadways. And a couple of states over they’ve legalized non-human attended self-driving vehicles.

***

Oh man, you guys are going to make great guinea pigs for the newest addition to the assassin’s toolkit. It’s going to be SO easy to make targeted individuals have fatal accidents with those things.

283. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#257. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

Since you reference THE ULTIMATE COMPUTER, I assume the Korean airliner pilot error to which you refer was the decision to rely on his automated systems? These same automated systems that you feel confident will improve to…some point where you will feel comfortable blaming the automate if something similar goes wrong in the not so distant future?

284. Mitchell - July 12, 2013

@134. Janice – July 12, 2013
@151. Curious Cadet – July 12, 2013

Star Trek 3 The Search For Pike
it ends with him put into a new body in the care of the Talosians. Maybe Nimoy goes with him? or at least points the crew in the way to get there. etc..etc..

285. dmduncan - July 12, 2013

On the positive side, the plane crash and heart attack techniques won’t be used as much. Now the witnesses will say “Yeah…I saw the Senator pounding on the glass with a horrified look on his face right as his auto-car passed by and went straight off the embankment. It was the strangest thing…”

286. Disinvited - July 12, 2013

#268. Vultan – July 12, 2013

IRON MAN 2 & 3, even further blurred the lines by making them flying weapons platform drones as well. Really packing in the relevancy there.

287. Mitchell - July 12, 2013

@144. S – July 12, 2013
@147. Data – July 12, 2013
@149. Sad Panda – July 12, 2013

you guys all have the right ideas. Combine them all and absolutely Star Trek can compete and win major battles against star wars and the marvel universe.

we know abrams play book, we have an idea for how he’ll direct star wars. And marvel films apart from the heavy hitters are very flimsy.

If Trek consolidated down to only a few properties and focused solely on making those the highest quality possible with people that care, Star Trek can boldly explore not only new worlds but whole new categories of marketing and business.

The people in charge can’t be afraid to shed the parts of Trek’s past that actually need upgrading But NOT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF REHASHING. So the people behind it have to really care about Star Trek, rather than be afraid of it.

It’s the most amazing universe of ideas and possibilities in entertainment history.

288. Red Dead Ryan - July 12, 2013

dmduncan – July 12, 2013

“On the positive side, the plane crash and heart attack techniques won’t be used as much. Now the witnesses will say “Yeah…I saw the Senator pounding on the glass with a horrified look on his face right as his auto-car passed by and went straight off the embankment. It was the strangest thing…” ”

That scenario sounds a lot like that of “Robopocalypse”.

289. Jim Nightshade - July 12, 2013

if stid was a fan film howcum so many fans didn’t like it? I saw the Khan moments as confusing and even laughed out loud at the KHANNN yell…but after thinking about it I thought that maybe these parallels to wrath of Khan happened because of bleed thru from original timeline some events change due to the timeline changes such as Starfleet gearing up for war etc….but other events like khan happen in different ways but they have to happen somehow….Kirks humility and sacrifice and talk to spock was to help him understand what friendship is….up til then spock did not understand what friendship was….Even the KHANNNNN yell had to happen bleeding thru from original timeline but because of Spocks revelations re Kirk and friendship and sacrifice he was the one to yell it in frustration and anger….going back to the death of his mom and now his only just realized bromance friendship with kirk….poed him off royally….least that’s how I saw it….so events from original timeline happen but all mixed up like in a blender due to the alternate universe timeline….doesn’t mean everything has to or will happen same….but some will….I liked stid a lot….the visual epicness and incredible action especially in 3d imax was stunning….trek never got to look like that before and probably wont again so I enjoyed it while it lasted….the fans calling for a giant mix of alt and original timeline guest shots by kirk, picard data etc….nononono now that would be Fan Fictions…..only fans would get it and it would be confusing and boring to anyone else in a new movie….no thanks….much as I would luv to see more of any of the past trek incarnations that would not work….as mentioned they need to do the five year mission and really explore space..that means NO KLINGONS…..I agree the opening nimburi or whatever they were scenes were quite Trek like and fun….more like that please….I don’t care that the enterprise was under water and I loved seeing it rocket away with the natives worshipping the enterprise haha…loved that….
I would like to see the cast get away from their shiny Big e for a while and depend instead on each other and their own intelligence to save the day for some planet or galaxy as kirk used to do so gallantly….but Istill wouldlike the bigger budgets and spectacle of a movie please…I think Trek wasn’t as big of a hit because of the incredible amount of COMPETITION from other franchises combined with not enuf build up concentrating too much on other countries….more younger moviegoers saw trek 09 and loved it so I don’t know why they didn’t want to see stid..it also had as good as reviews as the first one and great rotten tomato grades etc….I think they weren’t as aware of it because it was not built up at comic con or the usual scifi comics outlets….and maybe jj jumping ship made them think they will just wait for star wars to see the next jj flick….

290. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

#280. Disinvited – July 12, 2013

Now your message jumped to 278 from my originally displayed as 273 to which I was replying.

#199. Undiscovered – July 12, 2013

See what I mean?

291. Aurore - July 13, 2013

@ Joseph Dickerson

Thank you for sharing your views regarding the future of the Star Trek franchise, in this article.

“…Star Trek will never die.”

No matter what happens next, for me, that much is certain.

Star Trek will never die.

:)

292. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

@291. Well, it’s unlikely around say 5000 years from now.

293. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

A major problem with the idea of all of these bad things happening by using automation technologies to murder people, is that also these activities will similarly leave IT forensic residue data elements that will also make it similarly easier for investigators to find out that that supposed accident was actually a murder. And if the IT records of these incidents are expunged or messed with, that fact itself will also show up as forensic IT evidence.

I don’t this this is as simple and easy as some of you are suggesting here. You can’t just log onto systems, kill people, and make all traces disappear in the real world, especially given the inherent distributed nature of cloud and web services networks that connect everything.

294. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

COMING NEXT WEEK — THE RET-CON FOR RET-KHAN!

It’s the STID prequel comic, called … “Star Trek: Khan.”

It fills in all that stuff that didn’t get mentioned about who the guy is in the movie.

From his rise to global power on Earth to his banishment and ultimate discovery in space by Admiral Marcus.

295. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

I see the problem here. You operate from a faulty factual basis.

What you wrote there did not happen.

It’s not possible to have a discussion on this basis.

>283. Disinvited – July 12, 2013
#257. William Bradley – July 12, 2013

Since you reference THE ULTIMATE COMPUTER, I assume the Korean airliner pilot error to which you refer was the decision to rely on his automated systems? These same automated systems that you feel confident will improve to…some point where you will feel comfortable blaming the automate if something similar goes wrong in the not so distant future?

296. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

It’s, um, hilarious that you keep saying that something that is only now happening in earnest is somehow old hat because it was in a cancelled TV show for a couple of episodes or whatever …

THIS IS GOING TO BE AN EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY BIG DEAL COMING UP.

Also, STID isn’t about drones because, wait for it, it doesn’t have drones.

>278. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013
Disinvited, William,

Yes, regarding Terminator. And those points on drones were made decades ago, kind of proving my point about this being covered over the years many times before.

297. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Pacific Rim sounded incredibly goofy at first, but the more I see of it the more it grows on me.

>274. MJ (The Original). – July 12, 2013
Just back from Pacific Rim. A lot of fun…a lot of fun!

William, you make some good points about drones become more pervasive.

298. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Not drone soldiers, Mobile Infantry! :)

With powered suits this time. Like Tony Stark’s.

Wait, you don’t think Stan Lee got the idea for the Iron Man suit from Robert Heinlein’s novel, do you? :)

>271. Vultan – July 12, 2013
#267

I think we’ll see drone soldiers on the ground within the next 20 years. Maybe sooner. Not really science fiction anymore. They’re working on it.

299. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

Maybe being so immersed in science fiction myself since the 1970′s, I personally find drones and their issues so unsurprising. I mean, this was inevitable.

The coming singularity is so much more interesting.

300. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

I actually rather like Generations, though it does have the blahs in spots.

It was a good introduction of the TNG crew, good character study of Picard, and a wonderful sequence of Kirk saving the day once again before being torn away …

“My God, was there anybody in here?!”

“Aye.”

The bridge fall is not what I would have chosen, but even that isn’t so bad.

There was nothing in there that felt like a slap in the face, or a bad joke inconsistent with what we know.

>267. Phil – July 12, 2013
@252. Moore has the understanding, but considering that his name is one of the writing credits for Generations, one of the biggest pieces of Trek garbage to ever hit the big screen, he’s not a lock, in my estimation. Generations makes the scripting for either ST09 or STID look downright Shakespearian in comparison….

301. James McFadden - July 13, 2013

Ronald D. Moore should be employed as a Consulting Producer in future TV Shows.

302. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Ron Moore also wrote the best Star Trek movie, Star Trek: First Contact.

It shouldn’t be necessary to remind people of all his great work on the Star Trek TV series, especially his development of the Klingons, or of his re-creation of Battlestar Galactica.

>>267. Phil – July 12, 2013
@252. Moore has the understanding, but considering that his name is one of the writing credits for Generations, one of the biggest pieces of Trek garbage to ever hit the big screen, he’s not a lock, in my estimation. Generations makes the scripting for either ST09 or STID look downright Shakespearian in comparison….

303. chrisfawkes.com - July 13, 2013

I met up with some friends I do not get to see very often last night. Die hard trekkies who were very excited to see Star Trek Into Darkness.

So it was a surprise when I asked what they thought of it that non of them had been to see it.

Their reason being that they had heard it was a Wrath of Khan remake.

I have to wonder how much of the success then is off the back of the new market rather than the trekkie market.

I did enjoy the film and I saw it 5 times but going with Khan was not something that most fans wanted. In fact it was a huge disappointment to many.

And the scene where Cumberbach, a fine actor reveals he is Khan, well it was supposed to be a clanger but was in fact a painful moment as no one really cared.

Spock screaming Khan, as soon as that spoiler was out surely would have made fans want to avoind having to see that moment.

Old Spock saying that Khas was the most dangerous adversary that the Enterprise had ever faced was just patronizing. Treating us fans like mindless fools who would just cream ourselves to hear those words when The Enterprise had faced numerous foes more dangerous and the only reason Khan had any advantage in TWOK is because Kirk stuffed up.

It misread the fan base to appeal to maybe 1% of trekkies who wanted Khan.

I do not wish to sound rude but to provide what I think is realistic feedback I will add

There was a perception after Prometheus that there was a shopping list of things that had to happen (i.e alien ripping out of stomach) that was sprinkled along the timeline then a story was used to fill in around that.

Given the obvious tie in to TWOK Star Trek Into Darkness did feel as if that same method had been applied. At least in the minds of some.

A kick ass original story is what I think most want and believe is what can take Star Trek to new heights.

On the one hand these guys have taken Trek to box office levels not hitherto achievable. Then on the other I wonder if they are hindering their own potential also.

So take those thoughts for what they are worth.

304. Mitchell - July 13, 2013

@294. William Bradley – July 13, 2013
Yeah that made me sick to my stomach to see. Haven’t they butchered enough? ugh.

@297. William Bradley – July 13, 2013
Yeah when i saw the ludicrous first marketing and idris elba’s over the top line about “cancelling the apocalypse” i just reaction with stunned laughter at something so stupid but like you the more i saw the more i liked.

@300. William Bradley – July 13, 2013
yeah no way was stid better scripted than Generations. on any level. I think of Generations the way Scotty described the Enterprise- B.
to paraphrase an alter it a bit: “Damn fine movie if you ask me”

305. Mitchell - July 13, 2013

@303. chrisfawkes.com – July 13, 2013
Talked with people across the world i know and the same was said by a lot of them. Others, huge fans of JJ and 2009 Trek, mentioned they only saw it once and didn’t get the reason for Khan or thought it was dumb to “go back” as they put it.
but what really surprised me were the people who will just about see anything, who came up to me and directly asked if it was a “remake”. i told them no not really but it borrows heavily and some sequences are almost exactly recreated-i’ll never forget their reactions- they frowned, shook their heads and said things along the lines of: “that’s a damn shame. i’m not seeing that crap then. i’m telling you man, shame. damn shame”

I knew then it wasn’t going to make the world wide bank i expected a sequel certainly would after the 2009 film.

306. Khan 2.0 - July 13, 2013

247 -DUNN
i really like your story – esprcially Neros involment. (although im still unsure of having another spokesperson Borg led story as opposed to having them more like they were in Q Who)

couple of nit picky points –
not too thrilled at Gorkon being the villian – maybe have another Klingon in the ambassador role (who could be played by Arnold Schwarzenegger to increase the box office) would Gorkon/Chang be at that stage in their careers post 5 year mission/TMP era

- maybe have some link to it all having happened ‘before’ (or to come) ‘with TNG/Picard? (maybe Spock Prime or Nero or Borg Queen could mention Picard/events of BOBW/FC),

-the Ent at the end being remodeled – into full on TMP Enterprise (cool image to end the movie on)

307. chrisfawkes.com - July 13, 2013

@ 305. Mitchell

It’s not really something that can be looked on as a lesson in hindsight either as those thoughts were put forth here many times long before the script was completed.

Does anyone know what the top selling Star Trek books of all time are. Maybe some nuggets there.

308. DggJag - July 13, 2013

Enough of this debate. We as a fan fanbase are literally tearing each other apart. I enjoyed this film along with my teenage children and my fellow contemporaries. This film was way better than 2009 and was fun to watch. Star Trek is back and I love it! This is coming from an old fart who watched TOS as a child on my Dads lap. Sure this stuff is different but it stirs my heart deeply. Trek is back rejoice people!!!

309. Crewman Darnell - July 13, 2013

“Star Trek, after Darkness: What is next for the franchise?”

Whew-boy…
Hopefully “What’s next” involves an entirely new creative team; all the way up the whole damn food chain. Sure, STID was some fun eye candy, but that’s the best thing I could possibly say about it. I’m really saddened that Star Trek has been reduced to what I saw in this last movie. Spock having (more) little spats with his “girlfriend” Uhura? The Budweiser brewery again? Lame WOK rehashes? Star Wars sound effects? I keep reading how ‘fortunate’ us Trek fans are to have a writer like Bob Orci, who “really cares about Trek.” Sorry, but I’m not seeing much of that, beyond a few “Easter Eggs” (to appease the old fans) which does nothing to make up for the lazy writing and stupefying plot holes. As for writing, I won’t go into Lindelof, aside from wondering: How the frak does that guy still get hired as a writer, for big-budget productions??

310. Aurore - July 13, 2013

“…A kick ass original story is what I think most want and believe is what can take Star Trek to new heights.”
_______

That is what I wanted and believed, after watching a movie I very much liked a few years ago; Star Trek (2009).

I still do.

311. Janice - July 13, 2013

@134. Janice,
“I’ll take ANYTHING that will bring back PIKE for the next movie. I absolutely hated that they killed him off. Wave the magic wand or magic blood and bring him back.”

Considering the extent of the ‘homages’ to TWOK, right down to quoting exact dialogue and similar staging, I have to suspect the moment during Harrison’s attack on the Starfleet meeting, when Spock hovered over Pike’s fallen body and even performed what appeared to be a mind meld, very similar to “Remember” from TWOK — especially since that was such an integral part of the scene they basically duplicated in its entirety later. We all know Abrams doesn’t include anything that isn’t absolutely essential to the movie to keep the pacing tight, even if it would help clarify some things. So why show such a moment in the middle of a frenetic attack, if we are not to infer some special significance to it? So I have a sneaking suspicion Pike will be back one way or another.

#151 Curious Cadet

I was wondering about that mind meld too. I’ll take Pike (Bruce Greenwood) anyway at all. I just want him back in the next movie. It’s science fiction–shouldn’t be too difficult to find a way.

312. Craiger - July 13, 2013

In the latest Killzone: Shadow Fall game for the PS4 you have a done you use to send out and distract enemies and find out where they are.

313. Craiger - July 13, 2013

Sorry I meant to say drone not done.

314. Tomar Re - July 13, 2013

Zachary Quinto Gives Update on the Next Star Trek Movie
by SuperHeroHype
July 13, 2013

Now that Star Trek Into Darkness has earned $444 million worldwide, Paramount Pictures is looking ahead at the next film and it sounds like they may start shooting earlier than was expected.

Lucien from BuzzHub tells us: “I attended a public interview with Zachary Quinto at the Galway Film Festival in Ireland on Friday, and during it, he revealed that Paramount have told the Star Trek cast that they’re planning to shoot ST3 in 2014, and that J.J. still wants to direct! He also told the audience he does not want to be in Episode VII, but he would like to cameo in The Big Bang Theory!”

To quote exactly what Quinto said about “Star Trek”: “Star Trek 3 should be filming, I suppose, next year. It’s going to be made a lot quicker than the last one. That’s the plan, although nothing is confirmed yet.”

It would seem impossible for J.J. Abrams to direct the film next year considering his Star Wars: Episode VII duties, but it’s interesting to hear Quinto say that. Who do you think should direct the next film?

315. Khan 2.0 - July 13, 2013

“Who do you think should direct the next film?”

give it to Bryan Singer. he can bring Patrick Stewart on board in some capacity :)

but Paramount dont want it out for the 50th anniversary? – maybe they aiming for a tv show for then instead? and would JJ A bramsreally be able to direct Ep VII AND oversee Trek XIII (in an exec producer role),,,i dunno maybe he could…

316. AnthonyDCZar - July 13, 2013

I enjoyed both movies under JJ but was not exactly inspired. Much like most Star Trek movies prior. It is a very tricky thing to develop a plot in two hours. Wrath of Khan worked because the back story was already there.

So, every Trek movie aspired to being a Star Wars movie…action packed and a cash cow. Character driven fairy tales. Which I enjoy, but are not story driven as the TV versions of Trek aspired to be.

I guess my biggest gripe over the years is that the Enterprise and her crew were simply “vehicles” to tell stories. This triad crap of Kirk, Spock and McCoy has nothing to do with the stories except to represent the different personality traits we as viewers have in common. And watching those shared traits deal with interesting situations.

There is a place and market for both. But I think JJ’s gang is better suited for fairy tale. It is unfortunate Joss Whedon didn’t bring back trek.

317. Sebastian S. - July 13, 2013

# 252 Vultan~

Maybe I should’ve rephrased; no more bad guys who are hoary cliches (ala the ‘evil admiral’ Marcus; evil admirals were already a cliche in TNG).

As for Khan?
While I saw no point in making John Harrison ‘Khan’ (other than fanboy wankage), I thought Cumberbatch did a great job with the material he was given. It’s a major step down from the writing he’s used to in “Sherlock”, but he gave it his all. And I agree with you, once the character gets over the whole ‘Khan as Hannibal Lector’ bit, he lapses into being a cliched tyrant (who seems also a hell of a lot STRONGER than the Khan who got his butt kicked by Kirk carrying a big plastic paper towel rack in “Space Seed”).

I still think the story (and Benedict Cumberbatch) would’ve been better served if the character had been a Section 31-created augment (perhaps using some of Khan’s DNA). It could’ve also given the story a nice, Frankenstein angle; the angry creation comes back to seek vengeance on the creator who mistreated it. Might’ve also made a nice cautionary story about losing control of the weapons we create (since the drone warfare analogy wasn’t particularly well thought out).

And the “Khan” character was done so differently here, that it’s really not the same character at all, which begs the question: why call him Khan in the 1st place? Adding the name Khan was a handicap IMO. It had no resonance in this timeline, either. When Harrison said, “My name is KHAN!” I thought Kirk might’ve said, “Yeah, we have three crewmen aboard the ship with the same last name… big deal?” Khan WHO? Even TOS Kirk had to look it up in the ship’s library computer in “Space Seed.” Khan itself is a fairly common name in much of the world. So the name in this timeline made it a name-drop without meaning. Like a young Hitler in 1918 Austria screaming, “My name is ADOLF!” So what?

And the Eugenics Wars were glazed over so thoughtlessly that any newcomer to Star Trek lore would be scratching their head thinking, “What?!? Where the hell did this guy come from? How did he come from the 20th century?” My only advice would be to read the 3 Greg Cox Eugenics Wars books as a primer if you want to get a handle on the character; because “Space Seed” and “Wrath of Khan” won’t really help since it’s not the same character anymore. “Khan” is now a pale, blue-eyed Englishman given the name as fan service, nothing more.

As for a next movie?
Fresh writers, no more cheap black hat villains; let’s THINK our way out of a problem for a change. If you need a good villain, fine; just no more mustache twirlers. And maybe (just maybe) we may even see a bit of genuine optimism and exploration and not another tired 9/11 allegory, OK?

I think a lower budget might also be just the ticket as well; less focus on spectacle, SPFX and destruction & more so on character. I think a lower budget might also be conducive to scrappier, more resourceful thinking and storytelling, and less so to bloated, soulless orgies of destruction.

318. Captain Braxton - July 13, 2013

Bryan Singer gets my vote, he’s an actual fan & would know how to pay tribute to 50 years of Trek.

319. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

From his new home in London??

lol

>315. Khan 2.0 – July 13, 2013 would JJ A bramsreally be able to direct Ep VII AND oversee Trek XIII (in an exec producer role),,,i dunno maybe he could…

320. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

At the least, Star Trek: Khan should be a novel and not just a comic book. Of course, if it can’t be in the movie at all then Khan shouldn’t be in the movie.

Generations isn’t a great movie, but it has its moments and passed the movie torch from the TOS to TNG crew.

>304. Mitchell – July 13, 2013
@294. William Bradley – July 13, 2013
Yeah that made me sick to my stomach to see. Haven’t they butchered enough? ugh.

@297. William Bradley – July 13, 2013
Yeah when i saw the ludicrous first marketing and idris elba’s over the top line about “cancelling the apocalypse” i just reaction with stunned laughter at something so stupid but like you the more i saw the more i liked.

@300. William Bradley – July 13, 2013
yeah no way was stid better scripted than Generations. on any level. I think of Generations the way Scotty described the Enterprise- B.
to paraphrase an alter it a bit: “Damn fine movie if you ask me”

321. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

That seems kinda weird. Didn’t Zach Quinto keep saying STID was about to start up when it was not?

It’s simply impossible for JJ Abrams to direct anything besides Star Wars next year. Or for most of 2015, because he has an enormous production, post-production, and marketing task for the Star Wars reboot.

He is moving to London.

>314. Tomar Re – July 13, 2013
Zachary Quinto Gives Update on the Next Star Trek Movie
by SuperHeroHype
July 13, 2013

322. Red Dead Ryan - July 13, 2013

Yeah, I can’t see filming beginning next year. J.J Abrams is going to be too busy with “Star Wars”, the writers haven’t even begun working on a script, the actors are busy with other movies, in particular Zoe Saldana with “Avatar 2″. Paramount still hasn’t given the greenlight, and CBS may decide to have its own say as to what happens next.

I think 2016 is doable, but the writers have to start on the script pretty soon. And filming has to be completed by late 2015.

There really can’t be any distractions, or further delays.

323. Phil - July 13, 2013

@302. I stand corrected. The guy does have enough of a body of work to be a strong candidate. I’d toss J. Michael Straczynski’s name in the ring, too.

324. DMar - July 13, 2013

It would be nice to see something new from the Phase II folks. It’s been over a year since their last release and other than asking for more money to defray costs, no one posts any NEW news stories on that web site. I’m sorry but David Gerrold joining the production team for a fan series that hasn’t released anything in a year is not really big news.

Big news would be the five episodes that have been in the pipeline for over a year and a half are ready to come out between now and Christmas! But that’s not likely to happen and of course this site doesn’t interview Cawley or anyone else tied to this production anymore which should really speak to how everyone actually perceives Phase II as not terribly worth while anymore.

325. Jeff - July 13, 2013

149. Sad Panda – July 12, 2013
“My vote is: Let Star Trek rest, and concentrate on creating something that is new and just as good.”

I think the Mass Effect games were a good example of this. You still had humans from earth exploring the galaxy, but in a completely fresh way. And by the way, a Mass Effect movie trilogy would not have captured the depth of the games; they would have needed a three season TV show.

And just let me be clear, I do NOT think they should do a Mass Effect movie trilogy or TV show. I’m just saying, it is possible to create something NOT Star Trek, but with franchise potential that is just as fun and interesting to think about.

326. Phil - July 13, 2013

@322. It’s not, this is just some hack blogger enjoying his fifteen minutes of fame, and hoping to boost his readership a bit.

If Orci and Kurtzman are in consideration to pen the next script, based on current workload it’s doubtful they would get to be before late next year. Bad Robot has right of first refusal, again, based on workload it could take them six months just to decide they are going to take a pass….I’m not holding my breath for 2016, that seems to be a somewhat arbitrary deadline at this point….

327. Jeff - July 13, 2013

I wanted to add to my previous post #135, where I said Mass Effect would not make a good movie trilogy but would work as a three season TV show.

That may be part of the reason why fans feel that this new universe Star Trek isn’t as good as the old universe. We have seen the 2009 Enterprise and it’s Crew twice in the last 3 years. If it were a TV show we would have seen them 60 times already.

Essentially they are still strangers and we haven’t gotten a chance to see how they handle normal life — as we have in the prime universe.

Maybe.

328. Jeff - July 13, 2013

Crap. I meant post #325.

329. Ahmed - July 13, 2013

@ 323. Phil – July 13, 2013

“I stand corrected. The guy does have enough of a body of work to be a strong candidate. I’d toss J. Michael Straczynski’s name in the ring, too”

JMS is a great writer, he actually wrote a very intelligent outline for a rebooted Trek series.

Paramount & the fans should forget about Abrams. The guy is busy with his beloved Star Wars for the coming years.

We need a new director who can make a smart Trek movie without focusing too much on action & CGIs.

Speaking of the CGIs, even with that, Abrams didn’t bother to come up with creative CGIs sequences in STID. There was really nothing stand out when it come to the CGIs. Unlike other directors who try to bring something new, like what we saw in “Inception”.

330. Jonboc - July 13, 2013

I doubt we will see any more Trek from Bad Robot after the next sequel. And yes, Into Darkness did perform well, was critically well received and I’ll eat my hat if there isn’t a movie in theaters to celebrate the 50th anniversary. But beyond that, I don’t know.
Such a shame. JJ delivered the goods and brought the dead back to life. JJ wanted to build a powerhouse of a franchise…he wanted tie-ins, books, animated features, toys…but CBS strangled Bad Robot with their greed, unable to see the long term benefits of going with JJ’s vision. After the next film, as Trek once again dies on the vine, watch closely what JJ does with the marketing of the new Star Wars franchise, with the full support of Disney…and witness what could have been. What should have been.
Oh well, It was good while it lasted…to quote my favorite Klingon, ” It would have been glorious.”

331. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Yes, JMS did great things with Babylon 5. On a relative shoestring budget, too.

He has a sense of how to create intriguing ideas, epic sweep, dramatic action, and characters you care about.

>323. Phil – July 13, 2013
@302. I stand corrected. The guy does have enough of a body of work to be a strong candidate. I’d toss J. Michael Straczynski’s name in the ring, too.

332. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Don’t forget that Abrams and company insisted on killing off all TOS merchandise because they didn’t want any competition with the nu-Trek stuff they would profit from.

Fortunately, that idea was killed.

Any wonder why Shatner and Abrams don’t get along??

>330. Jonboc – July 13, 2013

333. Jonboc - July 13, 2013

#331. “He has a sense of how to create intriguing ideas, epic sweep, dramatic action, and characters you care about.”

Absolutely! Ive been re-watching season one lately.and, despite the character of Sinclair, who wasn’t a very good actor, the remaining roster of characters along with great writing keeps me coming back for more. Good stuff.

334. Winkie - July 13, 2013

You all realise it doesn’t matter what we say? They don’t listen. Most people said ‘no Khan’, and what did we get? And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

For me, the whole production team, in particular the writers anbd directors, leave me cold time and time again – and not just with Trek. They make films that whizz by at a billion miles and hour and give an impression of being entertaining, but which crumble to dust as soon as you stop and look too closely. And in a day or two you can barely remember what happened let alone feel anything. Great films live in your mind and heart long after you’ve first watched.
I can’t even watch Trek 09 anymore without wanting to kick the TV out the window.

Unless someone else makes the next one I don’t really care any more.

335. Jonboc - July 13, 2013

#332 “Don’t forget that Abrams and company insisted on killing off all TOS merchandise because they didn’t want any competition with the nu-Trek stuff they would profit from.”

Right. And then there were the supposed “focus groups” that determined some difficulty in differentiating original Trek from JJ-Trek. I didn’t buy that for a minute…yet something had to prompt the decisions that were made…I don’t know. Both timelines should have been able to co-exist…and they do, not in a broad sense, but a few select toys were released by Playmates while Diamond Select continued toys from TOS. I didn’t see any real problems. Frustrating.

336. crazydaystrom - July 13, 2013

Forgive me if this has been answered but does anyone know why STID had such a staggered release? Paramount must have thought it would be to box office advantage. I can’t but wonder what the result would’ve been if it’d been released the same day everywhere. I know studios don’t do that these days ( or maybe ever, for all I know) but one wonders.

Still feeling letdown by STID. So much of it smacks of over-calculation and brings to mind the phrase “Getting in one’s own way.” It to me, has the feeling of being written by a committee, which of course it was. I’m well aware of the fact that more often than not movies are written by more than one person. And that scripts usually pass through the hands of several writers. But when things work well the ‘seams’ aren’t so easily seen, if at all. And to me the film seemed afraid to slow down for character and story development. I know all this has been said before, by me and many many others, but it’s tough for me to comment on STID without (re)expressing these things.

I’m glad the movie was not a ‘bomb’ and that we’ll get another but what would I like next for the franchise? Pretty much the opposite of the above.

337. Craiger - July 13, 2013

Collider is reporting the third movie news also.

http://collider.com/star-trek-3-news-zachary-quinto/

338. DUNN - July 13, 2013

@306: Khan2.0
Thanks! I just feel that it would be a way to subvert the expectations for Klingon villains, and that essentially all the “villains” (the Borg Queen, Gorkon, Chang, and Nero) can all be seen as sympathetic characters. Perhaps in the new timeline, Gorkon’s wife was killed by Federation attack force and he is more embittered towards attempts at peace while Chang has not had the chance to be battle-hardened yet. I think they both could operate in similar roles, but obviously Gorkon should not be the Chancellor and Chang cannot yet be a General. I forget all the specifics, but they had roles in ST: Vanguard, a book series set during the TOS timeframe. Also, allowing the 23rd century Borg to mingle with the TOS era allows for some great franchise mixing without total breakdown of the TOS timeline. Basically, we do not need any of this “mixing of realities” business. The team has chosen a direction, and I for one like that direction, but something new needs to be said while paying homage to the fact that it will be the anniversary in 2016.

339. Ahmed - July 13, 2013

@ 337. Craiger – July 13, 2013

“Collider is reporting the third movie news also.”

All these stories are just copying the Buzzhub original unconfirmed story.

I can believe that the movie might start shooting next year but there is no way that Abrams will direct the movie and this is the problem with this report.

340. coolcor - July 13, 2013

Remember, bring pack Pike. And give Bruce Greenwood his own startrek tv show. It is sf, anaything is possible.

341. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

#295. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

Look, I ask questions because I do not understand. In other words to determine what facts you were asserting and how they connect. You say I am asking the wrong questions filled with factual errors? Fine, could you further illuminate your point about the error in the Asiana Airlines Flight 214 crash?

342. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

#296. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

I find it hilarious that I very specifically said it had been beaten to death “for me” and you’ve been running with it as if I asserted it should be beaten to death “for you.”

FWIW the drones were featured in the title sequence of almost every DARK ANGEL episode and featured prominently in the series’ 2 seasons, especially the finale.

As it was considered part of the biopunk/cyberpunk genre, I am a bit surprised you lack the information to give it one of your far more effective patented skewerings.

343. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

I don’t think so.

>340. Disinvited – July 13, 2013

344. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Clearly, with drones having been seen in an obscure genre TV show that ran for two seasons over a decade ago, drones have “been done to death.”

Non-serious.

>341. Disinvited – July 13, 2013
#296. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

I find it hilarious that I very specifically said it had been beaten to death “for me” and you’ve been running with it as if I asserted it should be beaten to death “for you.”

FWIW the drones were featured in the title sequence of almost every DARK ANGEL episode and featured prominently in the series’ 2 seasons, especially the finale.

345. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

#319. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

Not that I have to agree with.

The only possible way that I can come up with for a Trek direct to occur is if the organization that nixed the Iceland shoot in 2009 (Although I’ve often wondered what was so wrong with Alaskan or Canadian ice?) did an about face and shipped the whole thing to London. I suppose if Paramount sincerely wants to court the foreign market they might, but the possibility seems as remote as the UK.

346. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

#319. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

That should have been:

“NOW that I have to agree with.”

347. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

B5, great show. You could tell how strong it was that the wet blanket Sinclair lead character didn’t stop it from taking off. When Boxleitner came in as Sheridan for Season 2 it was like the fog lifting with a gentle breeze. (Though Sinclair was a good character in spots.)

The great conflict between Londo and G’Kar, the development of the Minbaris, the coming of the Shadows, the banal malevolence of their agent Morden, the alliance and conflict with the Vorlons, the advent of Walter Koenig’s great Bester, the forging of the great Interstellar Alliance, the love stories, all wonderful stuff.

The deep conspiracy material is very well done, too, as is the idea — if not all the execution — of the philosophical conflict between the Shadows and the Vorlons.

Season 4 is epic, but in many ways I like the build-up even more. When Sheridan finally goes to Z’ha’dum the stage had been well and truly set.

>333. Jonboc – July 13, 2013
#331. “He has a sense of how to create intriguing ideas, epic sweep, dramatic action, and characters you care about.”

Absolutely! Ive been re-watching season one lately.and, despite the character of Sinclair, who wasn’t a very good actor, the remaining roster of characters along with great writing keeps me coming back for more. Good stuff.

348. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

FWIW

SB urges caution on apportioning blame in Asiana crash:

http://www.ketknbc.com/news/sb-urges-caution-on-apportioning-blame-in-asiana-c

“At this point in the investigation, we are not reaching any conclusions. We’re gathering factual information. We know a lot, and what we need to do is correlate all that information. We need to put it together and see what it tells us.” – Deborah Hersman, NTSB Chairman

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/ntsb-intern-confirmed-bogus-pilot-names-in-san-francisco-crash-offensive-fake-names-aired-on-ktvu

349. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Right. That is one of the worst things about Internet media. There is one teeny tiny report, not infrequently wrong or misleading, which dozens of sites add a teensy bit of attitude to and run with as if it’s an actual article. It all ends up in my Google news alerts.

>339. Ahmed – July 13, 2013
@ 337. Craiger – July 13, 2013

“Collider is reporting the third movie news also.”

All these stories are just copying the Buzzhub original unconfirmed story.

I can believe that the movie might start shooting next year but there is no way that Abrams will direct the movie and this is the problem with this report.

350. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Huh, where’d my reply to this disappear to??

>333. Jonboc – July 13, 2013
#331. “He has a sense of how to create intriguing ideas, epic sweep, dramatic action, and characters you care about.”

Absolutely! Ive been re-watching season one lately.and, despite the character of Sinclair, who wasn’t a very good actor, the remaining roster of characters along with great writing keeps me coming back for more. Good stuff.

351. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

#343. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

Actually, I only mentioned that it had “been covered”. The “done to death bit” is all yours. MJ later asserted it had been done excessively in SF past and I agreed with that, but that’s not the same thing as you have continually asserted I wrote specifically about DARK ANGEL and never did.

352. Space the not so final frontier - July 13, 2013

Boborci

for Star Trek XIII can you write in a redshirt whose named “MJ”
who meets his end getting torn to shreds by a few dozen Klingon Targ’s?

You will definately win multiple ticket sales from more than a few on this site.

353. Phil - July 13, 2013

@337. No, what Collider is reporting is that they can cut and paste fake stories from hack bloggers as well. CNN could report it, but until it’s confirmed it’s a fake….as a matter of fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if CNN does report this, as they tend to be good at reporting the news before it happens, too….

354. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

Jonboc and William,

I agree 100% with no reservations. JMS would be awesome to bring in to direct ST 2016 — I would only hope that they would have him lead the writing effort as well, or at least co-write it if they wanted to keep Orci around for consistency.

B5, seasons 2 through 4, represents some of the best sf every to be shown on TV. Here again is my all-time sf TV Top 10:

1. TOS
2. DS9
3. Babylon 5
4. nuBSG
5. Space 1999
6. Prisoner
7. Stargate
8. The Twilight Zone
9. Lost
10. Firefly

355. Donnie - July 13, 2013

I think that it would be nice to see an alternate universe story. I thought “In a Mirror Darkly” was a great episode. The whole episode was like a whole new show from when it came on till it went off. It may not be popular to the traditional fans.
I would have liked to have seen a series based on Sulu being Captain of the Enterprise taking over for Kirk instead of decommissioning the Enterprise. The original movie era was my favorite.
If they did a new series I really think it should be further into the future than TNG. The third generation. Star Trek should always be ahead of its time. The last two incarnations of Star trek has been in the past. Look at the items we use today. Cell phones started with Star Trek. Tablets began with Star Trek.

356. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

Regarding Quinto’s supposed news, given the combination of the cast outright lying for JJ that it wasn’t Khan, and given Urban’s dumbass Gary Mitchell comments, I will not a word from this cast about the next movie.

Love this cast, but don’t trust anything they say regarding the next movie.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

357. LizardGirl - July 13, 2013

@354 MJ
Lol, sad but true…

@277 Darkhawk721
I think a Mirror Universe movie would be awesome! I want to see a dark version of Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Sulu. I want to see if the actors can pull it off the way their progenitors did….and maybe a altered Mirror universe where Khan is the GOOD guy!

358. Star Trek Nemesis is A Sequel to a movie in a series of films - July 13, 2013

I am starting a facebook petion page to get a Red Shirt named after MJ in the next movie, and for that red shirt to get torn to shreds by 12 klingon Targ’s

359. Keachick - July 13, 2013

Star Trek Into Darkness was a fine movie – a film I saw four times in the cinema. I am looking forward to getting the DVD version of it, so I can watch it again, and again, and ag….

What is most depressing is reading most of the comments here.

God, some of you people need to go take a pill or something…

So some posters here can’t care about the people of this alternate universe because it is not the prime universe. Well, guess what – none of it is real. There is absolutely NO REASON for anyone to care more about people of the so-called prime universe than those same/similar people of an alternate universe. Somehow prime Spock felt as keenly about the deaths of all those Vulcans on an alternate universe planet and why shouldn’t he?

The view that these characters are less worthy is absurd and indeed rather worrying, if anyone cares to think about it.

Anyway, hopefully there will be news soon about the third movie. Perhaps Paramount is just wanting to lock everyone in place, so that there can be no delays etc, before they make an official announcement. People are catastrophizing all over again…so droll, so uncool, so very dumb!

360. Ahmed - July 13, 2013

@ 347. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

“B5, great show….

The great conflict between Londo and G’Kar, the development of the Minbaris, the coming of the Shadows, the banal malevolence of their agent Morden, the alliance and conflict with the Vorlons, the advent of Walter Koenig’s great Bester, the forging of the great Interstellar Alliance, the love stories, all wonderful stuff.”

Totally agree with you. B5 was the best sci-fi series ever made, in the same place with TOS.

That why I hope JMS will be involved in someway with either the movie or a new Trek series.

@ 354. MJ (The Original). – July 13, 2013

“Regarding Quinto’s supposed news, given the combination of the cast outright lying for JJ that it wasn’t Khan, and given Urban’s dumbass Gary Mitchell comments, I will not a word from this cast about the next movie.

Love this cast, but don’t trust anything they say regarding the next movie.”

Yep, they lost all credibility when it come to news about future Trek movies. Once a liar, always a liar.

361. Mitchell - July 13, 2013

@306. Khan 2.0 – July 13, 2013
Anything to see that baby or the big Enterprise- E on a big screen again! i’ll seriously pay a years salary just to see either of those versions of the Enterprise speed past the imax screen!

Imagine if the refitted Enterprise 1701 from TMP took the a modernized camera pan and warp effect out such as the end of TMP? Epic Greatness. and those are the things you can “lift” or update for fan service, little small things that most of the modern audience wont go into a fury about etc…

@309. Crewman Darnell – July 13, 2013
in Hollywood you fail up the ladder.

@310. Aurore – July 13, 2013
“…A kick ass original story is what I think most want and believe is what can take Star Trek to new heights.”
_______

“That is what I wanted and believed, after watching a movie I very much liked a few years ago; Star Trek (2009).

I still do.”
———–

ME TOO.

362. Mitchell - July 13, 2013

@316. AnthonyDCZar – July 13, 2013
So you’ll be inspired by endless one liners and genitalia jokes???
you’re mad. joss whedon couldn’t write his way out of a grammar school contest. avengers is the only movie i’ve seen that is worse than STID by a long shot and i barely consider STID worthy of being called a movie. but it’s no contest, whedon’s work makes STID look like the greatest cinema masterpiece of all time.

@317. Sebastian S. – July 13, 2013
bravo sir, bravo! especially the part about “the eugenics wars”. glazing over that is a high class crime. and as you said touching on Khan without taking on everything that surrounds him and makes the material beyond epic is utterly pointless. Enormous opportunity wasted and a truly epic Khan story was cheapened.

363. Impending Doom - July 13, 2013

I just want to state that I am a life-long Star Trek fan. I have a particular love for TOS. Although I love TNG, DS9, and even Enterprise for what they are. TOS is my first love. The Enterprise-A is my favorite design ever. I am a fanboy. Through and through.

After Trek 09 I simply said I want a Trek movie just like this WITHOUT the glaring plot holes.

I say this all simply for one reason. TOS fans don’t want a love letter film that rehashes the past. That is not what we asked for. I believe the majority of TOS fans said please do not do Khan.

Do something new. I think most of us want something new that feels like it grew from the old. That is what TNG did so well. With very, very few, mostly vague references to what came before.

They want a thought-provoking, original, groundbreaking, and inspiring vision of the future. With a dashing Captain leading his valiant crew to fix some seemingly insurmountable problem. Fixing problems, working together to do it, and exploring strange new worlds. If everything looks beautiful along the way… GREAT.

“If you can’t take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It’s not safe out here. It’s wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it’s not for the timid.” – Q

364. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

“I didn’t write what I seemed to write to attempt to provoke when I said what you don’t know that I said because it was all done to death on Dork Angel.”

351. Disinvited – July 13, 2013
#343. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

Actually, I only mentioned that it had “been covered”. The “done to death bit” is all yours. MJ later asserted it had been done excessively in SF past and I agreed with that, but that’s not the same thing as you have continually asserted I wrote specifically about DARK ANGEL and never did.

365. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

I don’t know if Babylon 5 was the best scifi series, something I’ve changed my mind about more than a few times, but there were definitely times when I was watching it that I thought so. It’s a show with a lot of greatness about it, especially considering how relatively little it cost.

If Zach Quinto really said NextTrek starts next year and JJ is directing, he was tripping. He’s probably a little anxious about getting things underway.

It’s a little harsh to say you can’t trust any of the cast. Sometimes they have to say things, and not just because it’s in the movie script.

It does sound like “Khan” wasn’t finally, finally, finally decided upon until late. (What a cluster frak that meeting must have been!) Maybe Urban was urging that it be Gary Mitchell.

Cumberbatch as Gary Mitchell actually makes MUCH more sense.

>360. Ahmed – July 13, 2013
@ 347. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

Totally agree with you. B5 was the best sci-fi series ever made, in the same place with TOS.

That why I hope JMS will be involved in someway with either the movie or a new Trek series.

@ 354. MJ (The Original). – July 13, 2013

Yep, they lost all credibility when it come to news about future Trek movies. Once a liar, always a liar.

366. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Oh, I buy all these characters. The differences between the TOS and reboot characters make them interesting. And it’s a terrific cast.

PLUS this is a way to invest in the characters when they’re in their Prime, or getting to it, rather than just in the Prime Universe …

>359. Keachick – July 13, 2013

So some posters here can’t care about the people of this alternate universe because it is not the prime universe. Well, guess what – none of it is real. There is absolutely NO REASON for anyone to care more about people of the so-called prime universe than those same/similar people of an alternate universe. Somehow prime Spock felt as keenly about the deaths of all those Vulcans on an alternate universe planet and why shouldn’t he?

367. Mitchell - July 13, 2013

@359. Keachick – July 13, 2013
the opinions of those who didn’t like STID at all are every bit as valid as those who thought it was a masterpiece.

@362. Impending Doom – July 13, 2013
Awesome post! Very well said! It can be done with great drama and great pacing and effects for the modern day audiences, the people behind it just have to really care.

368. Ahmed - July 13, 2013

@ 364. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

“It’s a little harsh to say you can’t trust any of the cast. Sometimes they have to say things, and not just because it’s in the movie script.”

I think it is is acceptable for actors in major productions to evade questions by giving ambiguous answers, but it is just unethical & rude to flat-out lie like the cast & writers did this time.

369. Devon - July 13, 2013

367 – You are making it sound like cast and crew said Khan was not in the movie over and over. The problem with yours and MJ’s assertions is that only Simon Pegg is the only one to have denied it. At that point he may have only seen the John Harrison parts of the scripts. You have less credibility than anyone you’re slamming as we have proven that you’re making up your “facts” as you go along.

370. Devon - July 13, 2013

360 – Once a liar, always a liar…. Ironic as you’ve shown this quality about yourself several times. Name off, with links to articles, ALL the ” supposed” lies the cast told in regards to Khans involvement. After all, being a liar yourself you should easily be able to spot them yourself, right kiddo?

371. Ahmed - July 13, 2013

@368. Devon

“367 – You are making it sound like cast and crew said Khan was not in the movie over and over. The problem with yours and MJ’s assertions is that only Simon Pegg is the only one to have denied it.”

I think you were either living under the rock or not following the various interviews with the cast.

Check just this one short interview with Alice Eve on Feb 10, 2013

Alice Eve – Film Awards Red Carpet 2013:

Alice Eve: ”Yes, he’s not playing Khan.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kxaPt2jQT0

And check this article about Abrams :

Learn How Hard JJ Abrams Worked To Lie About STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS

http://www.chud.com/136147/learn-how-hard-jj-abrams-worked-to-lie-about-star-trek-into-darkness/

What do you call that mister ?? Before you jump to defend the cast, check your facts first!

372. Ahmed - July 13, 2013

@368. Devon

I guess you didn’t check this article from this site itself:

Pine & Quinto Happy No Longer Having To ‘Lie’ About Into Darkness + Kirk Character Poster In HD

http://trekmovie.com/2013/04/16/pine-quinto-happy-not-to-have-to-lie-about-into-darkness-anymore-kirk-character-poster-in-hd/

373. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

Yea, Ahmed,

Either Devon did not pay attention, or he’s just full of shit…or both.

It was organized lying.

And it really goes too far in my opinion. Can you imagine Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg not only outright lying like this, but telling the cast to lie as well?

I get shutting up and not releasing information. But organized lying?

374. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

And Devon,

Since you accuse me directly of lying here on Trekmovie.com, please have a the courtesy to provide a specific example in the five years that I have been posting here of where I have lied here about something?

If you are going to throw out defamatory comments like some tough guy, then man-up and back up your accusation? Describe and cite the instance where I have lied here?

Come on, we are all waiting???

375. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

@364. William, the “once a liar, always a liar” comment was Ahmed’s, not mine. Just wanted to note that, given your post mistakenly attributes that line to me.

376. Ahmed - July 13, 2013

@ 372. MJ (The Original). – July 13, 2013

“And it really goes too far in my opinion. Can you imagine Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg not only outright lying like this, but telling the cast to lie as well?”

Exactly, and I think Abrams got away with that outright lying because the cast was mostly young actors. If there was an A-list star in the movie, I think he would have find it hard to tell them to lie in that manner.

377. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Sorry about that, MJ. I quickly cut a bunch of stuff for space there.

>375. MJ (The Original). – July 13, 2013
@364. William, the “once a liar, always a liar” comment was Ahmed’s, not mine. Just wanted to note that, given your post mistakenly attributes that line to me.

378. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Well, it was extremely irritating, no question about that.

That said, filmmakers do deserve the right to preserve the element of surprise in their work. And the audience loses when too many spoilers, or too big a spoiler, gets out prematurely.

The problem this time was, for me at least, when I realized that I knew that Cumberbatch was Khan, and Abrams and company kept spinning that he was not, it was even more infuriating.

It’s actually a very interesting problem.

Because it’s very bad to flat-out lie to the fans and general audience. But it’s also very bad to have the mystery of your movie revealed.

>368. Ahmed – July 13, 2013
@ 364. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

“It’s a little harsh to say you can’t trust any of the cast. Sometimes they have to say things, and not just because it’s in the movie script.”

I think it is is acceptable for actors in major productions to evade questions by giving ambiguous answers, but it is just unethical & rude to flat-out lie like the cast & writers did this time.

379. Devon - July 13, 2013

376- Article when Abrams “lied” with the exact quote please (you can’t provide one by the way, so stop while you’re ahead.)

380. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Didn’t Christopher Nolan have Marion Cotillard lie about who her character really was?

Nolan is one of the great directors now and Cotillard, while not a superstar, is an Oscar-winning actress and a big star in Europe.

It’s interesting, though, that Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman, those cats didn’t say she wasn’t really Talia.

>376. Ahmed – July 13, 2013
@ 372. MJ (The Original). – July 13, 2013

“And it really goes too far in my opinion. Can you imagine Peter Jackson or Steven Spielberg not only outright lying like this, but telling the cast to lie as well?”

Exactly, and I think Abrams got away with that outright lying because the cast was mostly young actors. If there was an A-list star in the movie, I think he would have find it hard to tell them to lie in that manner.

381. Ahmed - July 13, 2013

@WB

“It’s actually a very interesting problem.

Because it’s very bad to flat-out lie to the fans and general audience. But it’s also very bad to have the mystery of your movie revealed.”

I don’t like spoilers & prefer to watch a movie without knowing every little twist. But what Abrams did was far more than that. And really, there was no need at all to hide the name of the villain.

382. Jack - July 13, 2013

It was not a modest success, even with the increased budget.. Sure, it ain’t the Avengers or Iron Man, but it did well.

Anyone who thought we’d see a billion from a Star Trek movie is delusional. They could have made a movie that did better — but it wouldn’t have been Star Trek…

It wasn’t a bad movie. I just think it would have been a better movie — for fans and non-fans — if they’d dialed back the homages, kept Khan out entirely and added even a hint of beauty and grace…

383. Mad Mann - July 13, 2013

Yeah, freakin Kor in 2016!!!

I’m not too drunk to know that ya gotta go with a TOS Klingon character.. And thank God for autocorrect

384. William Bradley - July 13, 2013

Well, I think it was a stupid frakking mystery as mysteries go, but it was a big mystery in the movie.

The fact that I hated it and it was probably unnecessary doesn’t change that.

Let’s take my favorite movie, Chinatown, and that film’s big reveal: “She’s my sister AND my daughter!”

Meaning that SPOILER ALERT Noah Cross (John Huston) is both Evelyn Mulwray’s (Faye Dunaway) father and the father of her daughter, the girl whose Jake Gittes (Jack Nicholson)-taken pix were used to smear Hollis Mulwray in the press before he’s taken out of the picture altogether by being drowned.

And let’s say some yoyo finds that out and splashes it all over the thankfully non-existent Internet of 1974.

Would i be angry if Polanski and Robert Towne and Nicholson and Evans and Dunaway all lied to preserve the mystery?

Absolutely not.

>381. Ahmed – July 13, 2013
@WB

“It’s actually a very interesting problem.

Because it’s very bad to flat-out lie to the fans and general audience. But it’s also very bad to have the mystery of your movie revealed.”

I don’t like spoilers & prefer to watch a movie without knowing every little twist. But what Abrams did was far more than that. And really, there was no need at all to hide the name of the villain.

385. K-7 - July 13, 2013

Re: Devon

Sneaky JJ let the entire case lie for him. That’s why you can’t find a specific quote from JJ himself lying. He didn’t need to. Simon Pegg, Alice Eve, Z Quinto, B Cumberbatch, etc. all lied directly and publicly on this — and these are all documented with quotes.

So your point is meaningless.

Why don’t you just confess that you really didn’t do your homework here, and then apologize for cowardly starting yelling at Ahmed and MJ that they are liars?

386. Captain Scarlet - July 13, 2013

Trek 3 to be fimed as soon as 2014?????? ZQ says it is so!!!!!

http://collider.com/star-trek-3-news-zachary-quinto/

387. Devon - July 13, 2013

“and these are all documented with quotes.”

K-7, AKA Ahmed, AKA MJ. I have asked SEVERAL times for quotes. So far we have Simon Pegg and Alice Eve. GIVE US THE LINK TO QUINTO AND CUMBERBATCH saying this. GIVE US THE LINK to J.J. denying that Khan was NOT in the film. The burden of proof is on YOU.

Links please? Put up or shut up princess.

388. Devon - July 13, 2013

“Exactly, and I think Abrams got away with that outright lying because the cast was mostly young actors. If there was an A-list star in the movie, I think he would have find it hard to tell them to lie in that manner.”

It’s like watching little kids trying to explain the meaning of life to adults. You’re trying to sound like you know more than you really do. William/Mj/Ahmed just don’t get anything….. at all.

389. Devon - July 13, 2013

“372. Ahmed ”

Links to articles where they lied please. Not links to things saying they did. You’re dodging all over the question desperately. Direct links to Quinto and Pine’s “lies” please.

390. Mitchell - July 13, 2013

@257. dmduncan – July 12, 2013
@258. dmduncan – July 12, 2013

wow just wow. you are being serious…wow again.

391. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

BARTLETT’S observes that proper attribution belongs to he who doth first spake it.

The proper attribution of namely, “drones were done to death in the Dark Angel TV series.” belongs to you, sir. Not, I.

As does, “I didn’t write what I seemed to write to attempt to provoke when I said what you don’t know that I said because it was all done to death on Dork Angel.”

392. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

@387.

BC:
“I play a character called John and not that other name,” Benedict continued.”
http://www.accesshollywood.com/benedict-cumberbatch-im-not-playing-khan-in-star-trek-into-darkness_article_73762

Quinto:
“It’ll be nice not to have to lie anymore.”
http://trekmovie.com/2013/04/16/pine-quinto-happy-not-to-have-to-lie-about-into-darkness-anymore-kirk-character-poster-in-hd/

And as was said earlier, JJ didn’t have to directly lie in public, because he had nearly the entire cast lying for him.

So, I have provided you what you asked for. Now, you owe me what I asked for you based on you calling me a liar earlier — you need to respond to this:

“Since you accuse me directly of lying here on Trekmovie.com, please have a the courtesy to provide a specific example in the five years that I have been posting here of where I have lied here about something? If you are going to throw out defamatory comments like some tough guy, then man-up and back up your accusation? Describe and cite the instance where I have lied here?”

Devon, I fulfilled your request. Now please fulfill mean and show where I have lied on Trekmovie.com anytime in the last five years?

Put up or shut up. You can dish it out; now let’s see if you can take it???

393. Mitchell - July 13, 2013

@391. Disinvited -
“it was all done to death on Dork Angel.”
—-
Dork Angel was a great show.

394. K-7 - July 13, 2013

Re: Devon, Ahmed and MJ Discussion

Devon, I agree with MJ. He made a good faith attempt to answer your challenge, so if you have any integrity, you now need to respond to his challenge with some information on where he has lied in the past here?

Fair is fair, and you did call him out as a liar. So it is now time for you to provide your information and past post quotes from MJ to back up this very personal and public accusation here.

395. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

@394 “Devon, I agree with MJ. He made a good faith attempt to answer your challenge, so if you have any integrity, you now need to respond to his challenge with some information on where he has lied in the past here? Fair is fair, and you did call him out as a liar. So it is now time for you to provide your information and past post quotes from MJ to back up this very personal and public accusation here.”

Yep, I am standing by here now awaiting Devon to specifically show (with quotes from my exact posts — just liked he asked me to provide him, and which I then provided to him as requested) where I have ever lied here?

396. Disinvited - July 13, 2013

#364. William Bradley – July 13, 2013

BARTLETT’S observes that proper attribution belongs to he who doth first spake it.

The proper attribution of namely, “drones were done to death in the Dark Angel TV series.” belongs to you, sir. Not, I.

As does, “I didn’t write what I seemed to write to attempt to provoke when I said what you don’t know that I said because it was all done to death on Dork Angel.

397. MJ (The Original). - July 13, 2013

“Dork Angel.”

LOL

I needed that tonight — thanks, Disinvited!

398. Wendy - July 13, 2013

This says exactly what I wanted to say:
DavidJ – July 11, 2013
“I think it’s pretty obvious that the general audience just had a hard time getting as excited about the darker, terrorism-themed STID.

The end of the first movie promised a fun, space exploration adventure movie… not some dark and gritty Khan revenge thriller. In the trailers STID basically looked like every OTHER overblown action movie out there, and didn’t have the unique enough feel that the first movie had.”

Also, I wish Trek were back on TV, but darn it, with the actors I love from the current re-boot movies. I really love Pine and the rest, it’s annoying to see so little of them and possibly only a third movie with them. Trek should have continuation, delving deep into the characters for a long time period. We’ve only begun to scratch the surface of the psyches of the new versions who were brought up differently and faced different challenges.

So keep making more and more re-boot movies! I know they won’t move the current actors over to TV, they’re too big wig now and spoiled with movie schedules instead of the grind of TV. Maybe you can save money shooting two movies at once? It’s Kirk et al I want to see for new Trek, so not sure about a TV project without them.

399. Disinvited - July 14, 2013

#397. MJ (The Original). – July 13, 2013

Again, proper attribution belongs to one, William Bradley. My only contribution was inspiring him to “…give it one of your far more effective patented skewerings.” and he rather gamely delivered.

400. MJ (The Original). - July 14, 2013

@398.

Even better!

Double – LOL on you, as Captain Kirk in SF in 1986 might have said.

;-))

401. Harry Ballz - July 14, 2013

400 posts? What do we have?

NOTHIN’!!!!

402. C Zenko - July 14, 2013

Star Trek: 2016 – Idea on the fly -

The USS Enterprise NCC-1701 (alternate univetse) goes passed the screen…

“Captain’s log, stardate (whatever date), we have been out on our 5 year mission for 2 years and have seen some amazing places, and studied some fantastic cultures. The crew of the Enterprise has performed in an outstanding manor, the crew is tired, the ship needs a few repairs. We are on route to station K 7 for resupply and some needed rest. While on course, we have received a hail from a starship identified as the USS Titan. Spock has no record of a USS Titan, we are proceeding with caution, and hope this is not a sistership to the USS Vengeance.”

The Enterprise drops out of warp and approaches an advanced looking Federation Starship.

“Captain, this vessel does not match any known Starfleet designs, this ship seems to be quite advanced, even compared to the Vengeance. I advise caution, but also suggest we investigate their intentions.” Spock says to Kirk..

Uhura hears the sounds indicating an incoming hail. She turns to Captain Kirk and let’s him know of the incoming hail. He gestures to put it up on the view screen.

“This is Captain Riker, of the starship Titan. I believe you are Captain Kirk of the USS Enterprise, I am from the same time as ambassador Spock, and the romulan captain you know as Nero. My crew and I have come to this timeline and have spent some time to investigate the disruptions that Nero has caused. We were able to purchase this information from your friend Harry Mudd.”

“Captain Riker, this is an interesting story, most of the information you have acquired from Mr. Mudd, is pretty much common information. I admit your ship looks to be very impressive, but I do need some convincing. You would of course ask the same question if the situation was reversed. What proof. Do you have?” Captain Kirk responds.

Riker pauses, “You are correct Captain Kirk, and we could both spend a very longtime trying to convince each other this is true or untrue. What I have Captain Kirk, is my life experience, if we are able to meet, your first officer Spock could mind meld to confirm the truth. I trust you, and I know you trust your First Officer. Understand Captain Kirk, billions have died that should not have deid with the creation of this timeline, we must restore the timeline to save billions.”

Together the USS Titan and the USS Enterprise work to restore the prime time line, saving the prime time line, they must save Romulus with the help of Nero, and ambassador Spock. If they save the planet Romulus, they save Vulcan by preventing the creation of the new timeline. And it ends with Kirk (Pine), Spock (Quinto), on the original bridge in the prime timeline on the Original Enterprise. The universe is saved and so is our Star Trek.

What do you think?

Obviously more work would need to happen, but it gives the general idea. It might be another complicated for the average audience, but it could bring both types of Trekkies a good science fiction movie to tie it all together, and create an opportunity for more 5 year mission with pine an crew.
Remember, we never did see the rest of the 5 year mission.

**** Read me Bob ****

403. Disinvited - July 14, 2013

#400. Harry Ballz – July 14, 2013

Aren’t you the one who would say “400 [fence?] posts were better than Erica durance.”?

404. Billiam - July 14, 2013

If they ever return to TV, I have an idea for them to consider. One thing that makes Star Trek stale on TV, imo, is a bad story arc (or lack of). Sometimes a season was just terrible because the episodes had a writer’s strike mid-arc, etc.

What if, we jumped ahead 100 years after TNG through the eyes of Starfleet children born to officers on ships. You could tell stories about the past through history class, never being bound to a particular era for too long. They could build or reuse sets from previous shows and ties stories together harmlessly through the eras. It’s always been cool when characters acknowledge the greats from their past, like Riker does about James Kirk, Janeway about Picard, etc. Imagine every few weeks the era jumps forward or backward. Imagine the stories that haven’t been told yet – and how slowly they could move the present time forward with just one child studying in class. It could take seven seasons to live one year so to speak. Just my thoughts on a different take.

405. Mitchell - July 14, 2013

@401. C Zenko – July 14, 2013
“Remember, we never did see the rest of the 5 year mission.”

that’s what this Trek (pun intended) should have been all about from the first film but all things considered i wouldn’t complain if that was the base of the third film and all things are restored.

The Titan should be the three nacelle version of Enterprise- D that was in TNG’s series finale. if ever i saw a ship worthy of being called “The Titan” it’s that big bad boy.

406. Admiral Archer's Prize Beagle - July 14, 2013

Hey Devon,

I too would like to see your evidence that MJ has lied here?

407. Mitchell - July 14, 2013

@403. Billiam -
i love this site. so many great people and great ideas. that would be cool. i still however believe almost all these ideas we have could be included in a giant Star Trek world to some extent if crafted carefully by quality film makers.

That’s why i know Trek can compete and beat some of the heavy weight box office contenders like star wars or iron man etc..
This property is fare more grand and capable of expansive story telling that i don’t think any one has still yet to realize.

408. Picard, Jean Luc - July 14, 2013

There are a few things I think need to change in order for Trek to compete with Star Wars or James Bond on a financial level. On a fan level I think the work has been done by Abrams to bring Trek into the spotlight again. Into Darkness was well received and people want more! BUT….

1) Star Trek is owned by two studios and really needs to be owned by a production company such as Bad Robot. That may never happen so…

If there could be a viable way of Paramount purchasing the entire franchise from CBS then I think there would be a far better chance of success.

If that was done then I would hope that Paramount would then hand Star Trek over to a production company like Bad Robot or HBO to develop new productions as well as.

2) More needs to be done to bring kids and girls into Star Trek through animated TV series that are yes fun and easy for kids to understand but work on levels so that mum and dad can sit and watch with the kids and get as much enjoyment from watching it as their kids. Bringing girls into Star Trek again is something that could be done through telling the right stories and perhaps not having crew-members strip off for no reason in the movies.

3) A return to TV is a must at some point. If it means CBS selling their part of Star Trek to Paramount and then for Paramount to have a production company produce and then sell it to a network then so be it.

4) Although it was admirable for Paramount to produce their own video game I think there are so many good publishers out there that they should really start talking to games publishers/creators to work on a Star Trek game that could compete with Arkham City and Mass Effect – I personally think Rockstar Games would be awesome but if EA games is the way forward then why not.

5) TOYS!!!!! This year has seen the lightest toy line for any Star Trek Movie since the classic Trek movies. Toys are becoming less and less relevant to people as kids turn to video games and electronic and interactive products. We live in a world where LEGO are recording better sales than Hasbro and Mattel.

Here’s how I’d break it down:

Diamond Select Toys – producing toys for the adult collector. License holder for both Classic Star Trek (1966 – 2005) and the JJ Abrams era (2009 – present)

LEGO – producing toys and video games for children (although LEGO is increasingly popular with adults too) and LEGO collectors. License holder for classic Star Trek (66 – 05), new Star Trek (09 – present) and any future Star Trek productions

Hasbro – producing action figures, role play, play-sets and large scale ships for kids. Same level of quality and play functions as their Star Wars line. License holder for entire franchise but primarily new Star Trek’s

Hot Toys – producing 12 inch scale replica figures for adult collectors. License holder for entire franchise but primarily TOS and Abrams movies.

QMx – producing replicas of ships and props plus gift items from entire Star Trek franchise.

6) Star Trek needs to become a multi-levelled, multi-platform franchise. Simple as. Abrams had a plan to do such a thing and this should be done.

409. Janice - July 14, 2013

340. coolcor – July 13, 2013

Remember, bring pack Pike. And give Bruce Greenwood his own startrek tv show. It is sf, anaything is possible.

YES!! Me too. I want Pike back in the next movie and I don’t care how they do it. And obviously Pike has to be Bruce Greenwood. It’s science fiction so dead dosen’t necessarily mean dead dead!! Make it happen and make it awesome.

410. Khan 2.0 - July 14, 2013

@402
“And it ends with Kirk (Pine), Spock (Quinto), on the original bridge in the prime timeline on the Original Enterprise. The universe is saved and so is our Star Trek.

What do you think?”

im sure they would both be thrilled going from their big super hi tech bridge to the small creaky floorboard big button cardboard one LOL

411. Steve Gennarelli - July 14, 2013

I was just grateful TrekMovie.com is still around. Anything besides that is just an extra.

412. PaulB - July 14, 2013

#401 C Zenko “What do you think?”

Well, since you asked… First, your entire idea doesn’t work in the AbramsTrek universe. As Orci has explained, in THIS version of Star Trek, you can’t “fix” your own timeline because every change creates an alternate reality. Thus, none of what you suggested is possible in the alternate universe, according to Orci’s New Rules of Time Travel based on His Half-Baked Understanding of Science.

Second, to be honest, what you wrote was all pretty terrible. (You asked.) Just….no. No.

413. Picard's Slappy Patty - July 14, 2013

Into Darkness was a massive disappointment for this lifelong Trek fan. My problem wasn’t even Khan being in it, and being completely unrecognisable. For me, the Robles was th lack of searching for life on strange worlds and boldly going where no man has gone. The Star Trek palette is so wide and full of potential, but, sadly, Into Darkness is just plain lazy. This is a great shame, because it could’ve been so much more epic, less childish and imaginative. It was NOT Trek, apart from name only.

414. Picard's Slappy Patty - July 14, 2013

Into Darkness was a massive disappointment for this lifelong Trek fan. My problem wasn’t even Khan being in it, and being completely unrecognisable. For me, the Robles was th lack of searching for life on strange worlds and boldly going where no man has gone. The Star Trek palette is so wide and full of potential, but, sadly, Into Darkness is just plain lazy. This is a great shame, because it could’ve been so much more epic, less childish and imaginative. It was NOT Trek, apart from name only.

415. Picard's Slappy Patty - July 14, 2013

Into Darkness was a massive disappointment for this lifelong Trek fan. My problem wasn’t even Khan being in it, and being completely unrecognisable. For me, the Robles was th lack of searching for life on strange worlds and boldly going where no man has gone. The Star Trek palette is so wide and full of potential, but, sadly, Into Darkness is just plain lazy. This is a great shame, because it could’ve been so much more epic, less childish and imaginative. It was NOT Trek, apart from name only.

416. Captain Slow - July 14, 2013

As a lifelong fan of Star Trek and a lover of TOS, I have to say that I don’t want this movie series to end with everything reverting to that. We’ve got fan films to provide more stories in that timeline so lets just let the movies focus on the alternate timeline. Which, by the way, I would set any new series in. While we all have our fanboy sides, I wouldn’t want any of my own overly fannish ideas to end up in the official movies.

417. USSEXETER - July 14, 2013

@ 410 Khan 2.0

I think that ending you just described is very possible. Bruce Greenwood was quoted during 2009′s Star Trek as saying when the nu-trek was done with their movies, their (nu-trek) ending would “dovetail” into TOS. I took that as the powers that be would eventually restore the timeline.

And before I get Greenwood couldn’t possibly be in the loop on that, stranger things have happened. This current administration is known to listen to the fanboys. It makes sense to me, JJ wins back disgruntled fans with restoring the original timeline.

418. Craiger - July 14, 2013

No way with modern SFX that they would go back to the TOS Enterprise.

419. USSEXETER - July 14, 2013

@418 Craiger I agree with what you are saying, my point was more about restoring the timeline, not so much standing on a creaky archaic bridge.

420. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

I provided the proper translation of your extended remarks …

lol

>391. Disinvited – July 13, 2013

421. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

My read of Bruce Greenwood’s comment at the time was not that the original timeline would be restored but that events would gradually assume a more familiar shape.

>417. USSEXETER – July 14, 2013
@ 410 Khan 2.0

I think that ending you just described is very possible. Bruce Greenwood was quoted during 2009′s Star Trek as saying when the nu-trek was done with their movies, their (nu-trek) ending would “dovetail” into TOS. I took that as the powers that be would eventually restore the timeline.

422. Aurore - July 14, 2013

“I wouldn’t want any of my own overly fannish ideas to end up in the official movies.”
_________

Agreed.

Personally, I would rather leave that kind of luxury to others :

“…I used to write fan fiction when I was 13, 14 and now I’m getting paid to write fan fiction, and it’s getting made. It does not get any better, literally.”

Damon Lindelof

http://trekmovie.com/2011/11/04/damon-lindelof-excited-to-reunite-with-j-j-abrams-for-star-trek-sequel/

:)

423. Scott - July 14, 2013

I am surprised by all of the criticism and negativity. Sure, there were some things I didn’t care for, but overall it was a great movie. It had the best reviews of all of the summer movies. Cumberbatch was outstanding. The entire cast did a good job. The effects were spectacular and the drama was good. I just think the 4 year wait hurt badly and the competition was a lot stronger this summer. It still made $444 worldwide as of July 11th. Not too shabby. I agree about bringing Shatner and Stewart back for the 50th Anniversary to restore the timeline. That would be epic!

424. USSEXETER - July 14, 2013

@421 William Bradley Quite possible yours is the correct assumption, but Greenwoods explicit use of the word dovetail still has imo to mean a restoration. Kirk & Spock get their parents back and maybe we see Pike’s heroic action that led him to the prime wheelchair. More Admiral/Captain Pike is a good thing.

425. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

I see no way in which Kirk and Spock get their parents back as events gradually resume a familiar shape in the new timeline.

It’s not Back To the Future!

Also, we already saw the heroic action which resulted in Pike’s wheelchair, in ST09.

The only way in which the original timeline is restored is if someone goes back in time to restore it. I’m sure that’s not what Greenwood meant by gradually “dovetailing” the two timelines.

>424. USSEXETER – July 14, 2013
@421 William Bradley Quite possible yours is the correct assumption, but Greenwoods explicit use of the word dovetail still has imo to mean a restoration. Kirk & Spock get their parents back and maybe we see Pike’s heroic action that led him to the prime wheelchair. More Admiral/Captain Pike is a good thing.

426. USSEXETER - July 14, 2013

Pike’s wheelchair accident is quite different in both the timelines, so no we haven’t seen a modern or classic for that matter adaptation of Pike’s prime accident. Have only seen the aftermath of the prime accident. One beep for “Yes”, please.

427. mr.universe - July 14, 2013

But the universe of ´´old trek ´´ is still there, remember???
And so it the mirror-mirror-universe, and countless other universes in startrek, just like we saw in TNG´s parallels .
And the timeline were not destroyed , not, they(spock and nero) were sent into an alternate univers, in witch thing occurs differently now because of them so no need to restore the timeline, and that´s never going to happen, because why should it happen???

I hope we get a star trek XIII in 2016 in the same univers as now, and then move forward to the 24th century in the this univers, because the old univers i history, and I doubt that no-one goes there again, just and only in books and computer-games:-)

428. Dswynne - July 14, 2013

I think that JJ still wants to do a third film, if nothing more than to both please the actors and production staff, as to put a final point to his trilogy. And, if filming does start earlier, it may be a scheduling thing. Besides, it not like JJ can’t use a unit director to help in the production aspect of the film making process. Heck, the actor Andy Serkis helped Peter Jackson as both actor and unit director in making the Hobbit films…

429. Red Dead Ryan - July 14, 2013

Still don’t see Devon backing up his claims that MJ is a supposed liar….

….On the other hand, MJ provided ample evidence that some from the cast deliberately lied about who the villain in the sequel was.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Devon chooses not to respond at all.

Some people just can’t handle the facts.

430. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

Please realize that Pike has not only had his wheelchair accident, he is now dead.

What are you imagining, that the new timeline magically hits rewind?

>426. USSEXETER – July 14, 2013
Pike’s wheelchair accident is quite different in both the timelines, so no we haven’t seen a modern or classic for that matter adaptation of Pike’s prime accident. Have only seen the aftermath of the prime accident. One beep for “Yes”, please.

431. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

Absolutely no way that happens.

Even the greatest directors can’t phone in one movie while making another.

Abrams is gone.

>428. Dswynne – July 14, 2013
I think that JJ still wants to do a third film, if nothing more than to both please the actors and production staff, as to put a final point to his trilogy. And, if filming does start earlier, it may be a scheduling thing. Besides, it not like JJ can’t use a unit director to help in the production aspect of the film making process. Heck, the actor Andy Serkis helped Peter Jackson as both actor and unit director in making the Hobbit films…

432. Ahmed - July 14, 2013

@ 387. Devon – July 13, 2013

“K-7, AKA Ahmed, AKA MJ. I have asked SEVERAL times for quotes. So far we have Simon Pegg and Alice Eve. GIVE US THE LINK TO QUINTO AND CUMBERBATCH saying this. GIVE US THE LINK to J.J. denying that Khan was NOT in the film. The burden of proof is on YOU.
Links please? Put up or shut up princess.”

Either you don’t read the posts or you don’t want to admit the truth. I gave you a youtube link to Alice Eve interview & another link to a trekmovie article with Pine & Quinto.

MJ provided you with more links that clearly show the cast denying that BC is playing Khan.

You need to apologize to MJ & me right now Mister.

433. Ahmed - July 14, 2013

@428. Dswynne – July 14, 2013

“I think that JJ still wants to do a third film, if nothing more than to both please the actors and production staff, as to put a final point to his trilogy.”

He wasn’t that excited about making STID, you think he will want to leave his beloved Star Wars & come back from London to do the 3rd movie!!!

I’m happy that he is making Star Wars because I think he is the best director to do that. He should focus on making the best SW movie ever. Because once that first movie take off break all records, we will get more SW movies & spin-off.

As for Star Trek, I hope that Paramount is looking actively now for new director, someone who can keep the excitement of ST09 and add a great story to the mix.

434. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

STID’s box office edged up some more this weekend.

It’s up to $446.9 million worldwide box office.

Domestic box office is at $224.4 million.

Which is way off the pace of ST09, which was at $250.1 million at the same point. That’s without factoring in inflation or 3D and IMAX premiums.

In 2013 dollars, ST09 would be at $271.1 million at this point.

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek12.htm

435. Ahmed - July 14, 2013

Speaking of box office, I can’t believe that Grown Ups 2 actually beat Pacific Rim at the box office!

I didn’t get to see the movie yesterday & now not really sure about it.

436. Horta - July 14, 2013

The amount of negative (and some downright rude) comments on this site both about ST:ID and the Bad Robot team is shocking, very short-sighted and self-defeating. In the late 1980s ST:TNG breathed new life into a franchise that was getting “long in the tooth”. After ST: Nemesis and the cancellation of ST: Enterprise, though, it was again at the end of the road and looked like it would disappear again for decade or more or even altogether. I tried showing ST:TWK to some of my 15-16 year-old students as an end of term filler, and was met with significant negativity. When I asked why they would not give it a chance, I was told it was “too old”. They clearly had not seen the new Trek films as they already had negative preconceptions as a result of irrational ageist thinking. This alone surely justifies the need for JJ-Trek; it is the desperately needed “shot in the arm” of John Harrison blood serum that has saved Star Trek as surely as did Meyer’s directorial input in ST:TWK. Another of my students, too young to have developed hormonal closed-mindedness, actually said he thought ST:ID was the BEST Star Trek movie. I had my niggles about the non-canon ethnic discrepancies of the John Harrison Khan too, but like Kirk’s/Pine’s non-canon blue eyes, a degree of artistic licence should be allowed. After all, we don’t want to go back to smooth foreheaded Klingons again, now do we? Cumberbatch gave a damn fine performance as Khan that, at least for me, more than made up for a lack of perfect continuity. Give Lindelof, Orci, Kurtzman and Abrams a break- Star Trek is alive again with the support of a new generation of fans thanks to the Bad Robot team. The “old guard” of Trekers had better get used to it and not be so closed minded; we would never have had the Next Generation if Paramount had listened to the opposition of the most vocal “fans”!

437. Dee - lvs moon surface - July 14, 2013

Well, definitely Simon Pegg, Benedict Cumberbatch, Alice Eve lied about the villain… Karl Urban said it was Gary Mitchel, hmmm a lie… and, ZQ admitted they lied… the other actors were a bit cynical about it, John Cho said his favorite villain was “Khan/Montalban” … Zoe did not talk much about it … Anton Yelchin was totally ignored during the promotion of the film … and Chris Pine plays the distracted about the way JJ Abrams chooses to publicize the film, about the secret and wordplay and blah blah blah …

Btw, I LOVE STID!!!

;-) :-)

438. MJenn - July 14, 2013

Star Trek 3 should be something ORIGINAL and a GOOD STORY. Thats all… if you cant do that then step out of the entertainment industry. And if your an audience member and you don’t see that (Originality, good story telling) when you go to a movie, then you should probably stop going to the theater. The reason these movie keep getting made is because people are paying to see it. Once the studios see that there is money in QUALITY over QUANTITY, i can promise you things will change… And you’ll probably get a better Star Trek movie. ;-)

439. MJ (The Original). - July 14, 2013

@432 / Ahmed (to Devon): “You need to apologize to MJ & me right now Mister.”?

Devon, you owe us a full and unconditional apology on this.

Additionally, we are all still waiting for you to provide your full proff — through quotes from past posts the last five years here — on when I have lied on Trekmovie.com.

If you have realized that perhaps you jumped to a conclusion here that you can’t support regarding your defamatory comments, I am prepared to accept your heartfelt apology and put this behind us. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, we say things that we later regret.

440. Craiger - July 14, 2013

Could we say that technically they cast didn’t lie about Khan since his alias was John Harrison? Maybe they agreed with JJ they wanted the audience to be surprised that Harrison was his alias and find out who he really was. Or should JJ have just come right out and said it was Khan? Would that have spoiled the movie?

441. Curious Cadet - July 14, 2013

@427. mr.universe,
“they(spock and nero) were sent into an alternate univers, in witch thing occurs differently now because of them so no need to restore the timeline, and that´s never going to happen, because why should it happen???”

This was in reply to USSEXETER I assume?

Either way, yes, exactly. I don’t understand why this is still not understood, at least within the fan community. This is not traditional time travel as understood in Star Trek for the last 50 years. It is a brand new universe. Even if Kirk and Soock could go back in time and stop Nero, it would be a different Nero in a different universe with different parents, and a different Pike, plus another Spock and Kirk. Even though these alternate people are just as deserving of help, effectively nothing changes for their actual friends and family from their home universe for which they were trying to reset, and the new Kirk and Spock we have come to know are effectively orphaned.

If for some reason anyone wanted to pick up in the Prime universe at any point in the timeline, and tell stories we haven’t seen before, that don’t interfere with pre-existing canon, they can. They can even tie the new universe to the Prime universe by mere reference, like the IDW comics did in the Mirror universe issues. No need to construct some convoluted plot to explain it. But as long as Orci is involved, there’s no undoing what has been done — and frankly, I can’t imagine anyone who might take over for the Supreme Court at any point in the future who would want to do this. It effectively throws two movies out the window and everything the audiences have come to know about these characters and their world. Best to let this universe ride along this way for awhile until the franchise is firmly established.

Speaking of the Mirror universe, I see people clamouring for that here. As much as I would love to see an alternate take on that in the new timeline, it seems much more like something best explored in the context of a TV series, much like Trials and Trible-ations, and other aberrant episodes, where the universe the episode is deviating from is otherwise well defined. Unless of course it is included within a film in much the same way Back to the Future II went to an alternate evil 1985, but didn’t spend a huge amount of time there. It was also part of a trilogy of films that came in quick succession of each other and worked as part of a formula. In STID, the filmmakers made a point of saying the film had to work as a standalone film, and I suspect that was due in part to realizing they screwed up in waiting four years between films. But also, because Star Trek is still not well established with the general public. So under present conditions, I’d say that’s not the most successful strategy.

442. Gary Makin - July 14, 2013

The budget for the next movie should be a bit lower (but no lower than $130m) and the marketing costs should be equal to production.

In addition, it might be a good idea commercially to cast a big-name actor as the protagonist (if there is one).

On top of that, the story has to be something new and maybe less dark.

443. Craiger - July 14, 2013

What about rebooting TNG? We could see how the timeline change affected the TNG era. The Mirror Universe will never happen because the general movie going audience has never heard of it. I think the only Trek series the general movie going audience has heard of is TOS and TNG.

444. Craiger - July 14, 2013

Or reboot TNG for TV and set in Abrams Universe.

445. TUP - July 14, 2013

I will agree the handling of Khan was a mistake. Had they cast a Latino actor I am sure they would not have kept it a secret.

Revealing Khan early would have done two things:

1) allowed any disappointment or resentment to die down

2) give them the hook they needed for marketing.

I think once they cast a Brit in the role they figured why not make it a big secret.

I saw the film twice. The first time on opening night, no one reacted to the reveal (I suspect they were hardcore fans who knew the secret). Second time, there was a mix of non-reaction and groans.

446. The Doctor - July 14, 2013

Revenge of the Borg assimilating the Klingon Empire attacking Earth. Earth only gets saved because Kirk seduces the Borg Queen. Also we get to know that Spock and Nero were not the only visitors from the future. probes being send into the time anonmaly by Captain Riker ended up in an earlier time in space and altered the technology and designs in this parallel Universe, after being examined by Section 31 and Admiral Archer.

447. The Doctor - July 14, 2013

#445. Not to forget. Carol Marcus becomes a borg and is chosen to be the new Borg Queens Vessel. Which makes it easier for Kirk to seduce her.

448. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

BTW, I actually like Dark Angel. :)

But Dork Angel was hard to resist.

>399. Disinvited – July 14, 2013
#397. MJ (The Original). – July 13, 2013

Again, proper attribution belongs to one, William Bradley. My only contribution was inspiring him to “…give it one of your far more effective patented skewerings.” and he rather gamely delivered.

449. MJ (The Original). - July 14, 2013

@439 “Or should JJ have just come right out and said it was Khan? Would that have spoiled the movie?”

They should have been marketing Khan since Comicon last year. In fact, the should have used the original cast from WOK to be involved in the domestic marketing for STID.

They missed a huge opportunity for domestic marketing by not embracing WOK as the past movie which this movie so much defers to.

Also, but coming out with BC as Khan a year ago, it would have prepared us all for BC playing Khan, instead of this awkward “wtf moment” where Harrison says he is Khan.

They completely messed up the marketing for this movie domestically as the box office figures how. They missed a huge opportunity to “embrace Star Treks past” here.

450. MJ (The Original). - July 14, 2013

@444 “Revealing Khan early would have done two things: 1) allowed any disappointment or resentment to die down; 2) give them the hook they needed for marketing.”

Dude, we are 100% on the same page. Exactly!

451. Ted C - July 14, 2013

What ever happens let us all make a pledge to stop using the stupid term “JJ verse”

452. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

I did see Pacific Rim!

It’s actually pretty cool. Love the world building. (Not so happy seeing San Francisco get wrecked again, though.)

The premise is kinda (okay, a lot) goofy — I’m pretty sure we have other weapons systems to take those monster all the frakking way out — but if I suspend my disbelief the giant Jaeger robots are fairly awesome. It ain’t every day you see a giant robot hit a Godzilla type monster with an aircraft carrier in the battle for Hong Kong …

For the sheer spectacle alone it’s worth seeing. It’s clear the guy who directed it is REALLY into giant monsters and robots.

>435. Ahmed – July 14, 2013
Speaking of box office, I can’t believe that Grown Ups 2 actually beat Pacific Rim at the box office!

I didn’t get to see the movie yesterday & now not really sure about it.

453. Undiscovered - July 14, 2013

@290. Disinvited – July 13, 2013

#199. Undiscovered – July 12, 2013
See what I mean?

Yes, I do. Thank you. My post is back now and is at #197. No one seems to interested in the info though. Perhaps because it’s now too far back in the thread.

http://geeksout.org/blogs/jono/skip-enders-game-reality-lionsgates-statement-changes-nothing#.UeFAAy0noSk.facebook

http://geeksout.org/blogs/jono/geeks-out-responds-orson-scott-card-still-plans-skip-enders-game

454. Keachick - rose pinenut - July 14, 2013

So it’s OK to “Latino-wash” a character said to be of North Indian descent but not “white-wash”? I cannot believe the racist nonsense that I keep reading here.

Anyway, I think the real alternate Khan Noonien Singh was still in cryostasis and John Harrison was taken out, possibly because his tube was malfunctioning. At no point did either Admiral Marcus or Cumberbatch/HarrisonKhan refer to this alternate Khan as being Khan Noonien Singh. Only prime Spock used the full name and he was referring to the Khan he met in his own prime universe more than 100 years ago. People often wonder why having that scene with Nimoy/Spock was *necessary*. I have as well…but I think I know why now…for some reason, a particular fish comes to mind.

Cumberbatch did and didn’t lie about being Khan… Karl Urban was just “blowing smoke” or was it windsurfing on the Waitemata Harbour?

How can a person actually lie about a character who is a fiction, ie not real, someone who is a fabrication of a writer’s imagination, especially since a writer can change his mind about this unreal character, unlike a real person?

455. Sentinel78 - July 14, 2013

As a massive Trekkie since seeing the Voyage Home in theaters, Dec 8th, 1986, with my dad when I was 8 (yes I still remember it quite clearly), I’ve enjoyed every incarnation, including the least popular film and tv episodes, because to me, it all goes together. I really enjoyed the 2009 reboot because, well, IDIC. There were many things about ST:ID that were amazing…then the writers ‘sh*t the bed’ as one critic stated because of one glaring, sloppy and downright pedestrian issue: Khan. I blame Lindelof (considering he also ruined Prometheus), but I’m also shocked that Orci and Kurtzman, supposed die-hard Trekkies in their own right, didn’t have the cranial capacity to realize that 1. Adding Khan to the mix was totally unnecessary, but also 2. If the studio was potentially forcing them to go that route in order to make more money, they could have saved the last 1/3 of the film by adding this simple line instead: “I am John Harrison, a product of 21st century Eugenics. Khan Noonian Singh was my leader, but Starfleet had him executed and forced us to do their bidding. Now I want my revenge.” Why all the stupid, f*ckin subterfuge of giving him a false identity? Making him British? Why necessitate such a drastic change to a characterization that was perfectly fine the way it previously was? We’re they that completely bereft of ideas for a new film that they decided to rehash something that wasn’t broken in the first place? Don’t get me wrong, it was a great action film, with some incredible scenes. But it wasn’t Star Trek; it didn’t feel or sound like Trek or have any cerebral themes or metaphors that would make you think about certain issues in a new light. The terrorism/hit-them-first-before-they-hit-us Klingon aspect was boring and not at all about boldly going out there. I can write a better script (I’ve written a few actually) but sadly I’m not friends with Brad Gray or any other idiotic paramount executives, who ultimately bear the greatest blame for a terribly short-sighted and half-witted picture. Into Darkness will still make over $500 mil once it opens in argentina and Japan, but at this point who cares? I’d rather buy Insurrection on blu-ray. Sigh

456. MJ (The Original). - July 14, 2013

@451. Why are your bringing up this Khan racial issue again? Really, hasn’t everyone all all sides said enough on this issue???

Come on, move one to something else and stop fanning the flames on this tired discussion area. Been there, done that.

Move on, Keachick.

457. Damian - July 14, 2013

I have to agree with MJ and RDR about the domestic release of STID. It almost felt like the USA was an afterthought. In a way, I was glad to have it spoiled before the film because I was one of the anti-Khan crowd. So finding out the villain was Khan 2 to 3 weeks ahead of time allowed me to get used to the idea and I enjoyed the movie more. They seemed so concerned with the overseas market it almost seemed they took the US market for granted. And the gap between Star Trek (2009) and STID was just too long. There was great momentum from Star Trek, but after 4 year. all that momentum was completely lost.

As for the next film, 2016 is a must. If Abrams and co. can’t meet that deadline, they really ought to turn the reigns over to someone else (maybe stay on as creative consultants or something). But they can’t miss the 50th anniversary.

For the next film, I’ve suggested this before, but Gene DeWeese put out a great novel in the 80′s “Chain of Attack” where the Enterprise gets lost in another galaxy and must settle a centuries old war to survive. I always thought that story would make a great film. Check it out if you have a chance.

458. MJ (The Original). - July 14, 2013

Pacific Rim was a lot of fun. Kind of like Avengers last year. Good popcorn fun, and a tremendously well-executed movie, but not a serious movie.

459. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

Oh, I’m a huge Avengers fan.

THAT is how to put together a cinematic universe, not to mention how to manage and market it.

I didn’t care one bit about Iron Man before RDJ was cast in it, was sick of the Hulk, cared less about Thor, and had only a musty fondness for Captain America.

But the way they have put it all together was brilliant.

Excellent casting choices, load up the casts with Oscar nominees, use humor and clever dialogue to fill in gaps in the world building, make sure that world building is interesting and optimistic … Almost sounds like the original Star Trek! Well, except for all the Oscar nominees.

460. Z3R0B4NG - July 14, 2013

Well Star Trek The Video Game…

i had …some… fun playing it, but it really was just a run of the mill 3rd person unreal engine shooter, there are so many of those by now it just isn’t anything special beyond the ability to walk around a few corridors of the new Enterprise.

If there had been a free roaming mode for the whole Ship, you bet your ass that thing would have sold like candy!

But nope… away missions on dirty planets and dirty Ships shooting Gorn that hardly remind one of the original and are really just generic NPC Critters too pew pew at.

The Coop idea totally backfired, Coop didn’t work at launch and the offline partner A.I. was *functional* at its best.

To be fair, the Development Studio knew very well what they had before they released it, and that is why they didn’t hand it out to ANY reviewers before release, so customers could not be warned.

For long time Star Trek Fans this was yet just another bad Trek game.
The last one that was really good is at least 10 years old.

But i also have to say the Press jumped on Star Trek The Game almost as hard as it did just before with Aliens Colonial Marines… and honestly it didn’t deserve that. The game wasn’t THAT horrible.

But oh well. maybe next time they learn from their mistakes and give the Star Trek license to a COMPETENT Dev Studio.

461. Craiger - July 14, 2013

MJ, could a marketing campaign something like Kirk’s faces his greatest foe again and have Pine yelling Khan instead of Spock?

462. Ziro The Hutt - July 14, 2013

make a great Star Trek, like Skyfall was great Bond. Make an animated series. Forget bad AA video games, make a GOOD free game for mobile to promote the film. Then launch a new tv show after the anniversary

463. Jim Nightshade - July 14, 2013

when i saw stid on the wed imax sneak…free posters in hand n probably most of the audience fans..the bc khan reveal was met with wild cheering n applauding……maybe this was the audience meant for trek….yeh….knockour socks off imax 3defx better than any other trek . movie..epic scope….ambition…..deeper character moments….breakneck pacing…fan/ moments……timeline bleeding thru but in unexpected jumbled up ways…..due to neros . incursion n a promise at end to the five year mission….us cool badguys…..i didnt . love some thingslike another bigger darker ship thirdmovie ina role also third spacejumping in a row etc but nothins perfect….end of movie creditsmet with cheering n standing ovations…..neither of the other times i saw it did the audience react at all to anything…..

464. porthoses bitch - July 14, 2013

I haven’t been here much lately…maybe like AP I need a break. While I enjoyed STID t was food for a starving man…now looking back two months later Im pushing the plate away. It was a summer movie nothing to work the brain. It was good and I wait for #3. The only thing i ask is becareful with a 50th anniversary picture. There’ll be an enormus urge to do an all time, old time reunion…. do that and you’ll a bloated fan film. Would I love to see Shat ? Of course…but Id loved tosee Dekelly too.. not gonnna happen.

465. Ahmed - July 14, 2013

@458. Jim Nightshade

From what little sense that I can make of your post, I think you saw the movie in an alt-universe :)

466. Craiger - July 14, 2013

The only clapping I heard in an audience was not with STID but at the end of Man of Steel.

467. Curious Cadet - July 14, 2013

Based on ST09′s track record at is point in its run, STID only has about another 4 million left in it at the domestic box office. It may not even hit 230 domestically.

International is a bit disappointing this week. Spain opened weaker than ST09, so it’s not likely to pack much of a punch toward boosting foreign revenue. Looks like its all on Japan’s shoulders now. It Japan doesn’t perform any better than ST09, then STID might close around 460 worldwide — about 30 million shy of Paramount’s published goal.

468. Craiger - July 14, 2013

I wonder what happens if STID doesn’t make Paramount’s published goal? Would a third one still be guaranteed?

469. Ahmed - July 14, 2013

@ 462. Craiger – July 14, 2013

“I wonder what happens if STID doesn’t make Paramount’s published goal? Would a third one still be guaranteed?”

I think a 3rd movie is guaranteed. STID after all made tons of money, maybe not as much as they hopped but still.

I do think the budget will be much lower than STID, which is a good thing. Star Trek is not just about wall to wall CGIs but should be about a good sci-fi story with decent character developments.

470. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

I do know that Paramount’s real goal for STID was a lot more than $490 million worldwide, and it’s going to come up well short of the lowball number.

I’ve heard the real minimum goal was $300 million domestic, in 2009 dollars, and at least double the previous foreign.

That was only a $42 million improvement on the ST09 domestic, and about a $130 million improvement on foreign.

That’s not at all unreasonable for what was set up to be a breakthrough movie.

So that’s $560 million worldwide. In 2009 dollars. (Vs. $385 million.)

In 2013 dollars, that’s $607 million and change.

Which is a lot, but nowhere near Iron Man or Skyfall territory. Man of Steel is already past that.

471. Bob Mack - July 14, 2013

#436 – People aren’t making negative comments for strategic or short-sighted reasons. People are making negative comments because they don’t care for the film, or they don’t care for many elements of it. Many people love the JJ films and that’s great. But many people just didn’t like STID, in particular.

It’s not a fan’s responsibility to express a false-positive opinion just because Star Trek needs a shot in the arm. It’s Paramount and Bad Robot’s duty to make a film that fans will pay to see. At the moment, it looks like they might have fallen somewhat short of the “shot in the arm” that Star Trek does need.

I, personally, have mixed feelings about the film but it’s clear to me that there are plenty of people who were rubbed the wrong way about it.

I’m glad you liked the film. I’m glad you know people who liked the film. But unless those who liked the film pay to see it a BUNCH more times then the future of Star Trek films may be in question.

472. Dee - lvs moon surface - July 14, 2013

#451. Keachick, Hey…

Simon Pegg was in NZ for the premiere of his new film “The World’s End”… did you see that? a big premiere in Wellington with Peter Jackson, Benedict Cumberbatch was there, too!

Benedict Cumberbatch is now on the way to Japan, apparently for a promotional event of Star Trek Into Darkness on July 16!

And Let me tell you, Trek’s guys lied a bit! LOL

473. Craiger - July 14, 2013

It sounds to me like STID is even getting mixed reviews here. I thought STID was just ok and not as good as ST 2009. One part I thought was good was Kirk and crew trying to save that planet from destruction. I have watched ST 2009 again and again whenever its on FX.

If they put Klingons in the third one not sure if that would be a hit. I sometimes wonder if Star Trek has run out of ideas. Klingons, Romulans and Borg have been done before. Romulans were even in ST 2009. Klingons were in STID. They mention Klingons for the third one and the only thing with that could be the Federation/Klingon War since Marcus mentioned that in STID.

However they have done a full out war before in DS9. Unless JJ can do a different take on the Klingos and the Federation/Klingon War since that has never been shown on screen except for a brief moment in Errand of Mercy?

474. Frying Vulcan Mind Meld - July 14, 2013

Bob O. tweeted this link about the new 6 pt IDW backstory Khan comic book series in Oct:

http://sciencefiction.com/2013/07/12/star-treks-khan-to-get-a-comic-series/

475. seangh - July 14, 2013

Comments on TM have become so tedious. Haven’t we seen at least 4 variations on this same topic? Time to move on people, nothing to see here.

476. Ahmed - July 14, 2013

How about everyone suggest what they would like to see in Trek 13 in term of:

Director:
Writers:
A-list actor/actress:
Aliens/Planets:
What shout NOT be in the movie:
Other:

477. Marja - July 14, 2013

Ah! I would love to see ZQ on Big Bang Theory. He’s so intelligent – and so funny. He’d make a great guest actor on the show.

GOD NO don’t tie the two timelines together. It’s an alternate universe, not time travel. If TOS Spock could return to his ‘verse, don’t you think he would have once he made his “contributions” to repopulating the Vulcan race? It’s great that there’s a new Trek universe to play in! Let’s keep going!

317, Sebastian S, I hate the “villain” trope too. I felt ST 2009 was ill-served by the “villain” Nero, who, to some extent seemed a copy of TWOK Khan (vengeance against [Kirk] for the death of his loved one). I think almost any movie that pretends to dramatic significance needs to dispense with the tired “villain” cliche period, especially a Science Fiction movie! There are plenty of scientifically oriented menaces “out there”! So I’d support putting a SF writer on the team along with Orci and Kurtzman, who could add a SF perspective to the script, while Orci/Kurtzman could handle character continuity and lovely interactions and confrontations between the crew.

“… no more bad guys who are hoary cliches … While I saw no point in making … Harrison ‘Khan’ (other than fanboy wankage), … Cumberbatch did a great job with the material … I still think the story (and … Cumberbatch) would’ve been better served if the character had been a Section 31-created augment … a nice, Frankenstein angle; the angry creation comes back to seek vengeance on the creator who mistreated it … also [a] … cautionary story about losing control of the weapons we create … And the “Khan” character was done so differently here, that it’s really not the same character at all … why call him Khan in the 1st place? Adding the name Khan was a handicap … [with] no resonance in this timeline ….

“… next movie? Fresh writers, no more cheap black hat villains; let’s THINK our way out of a problem for a change. … a lower budget might also be just the ticket … less focus on spectacle, SPFX and destruction & more so on character. … scrappier, more resourceful thinking and storytelling, and less so to bloated, soulless orgies of destruction.”

YES SEBASTIAN, YOUR LIPS TO GOD’S EAR! Producers/Studio: MAKE IT SO !!!
——————————————————————————–

398 Wendy, [Who would love to see the new Trek on] “TV, but darn it, with the actors I love from the current re-boot movies. I really love Pine and the rest, it’s annoying to see so little of them and possibly only a third movie with them. Trek should have continuation, delving deep into the characters for a long time period. We’ve only begun to scratch the surface of the psyches of the new versions who were brought up differently and faced different challenges. … So keep making more and more re-boot movies! I know they won’t move the current actors over to TV, they’re too big wig now and spoiled with movie schedules instead of the grind of TV. Maybe you can save money shooting two movies at once? It’s Kirk et al I want to see for new Trek, so not sure about a TV project without them.”

THIS, 100%, Wendy. And I agree that STiD’s posters and promotions before the TV spots looked very very dark, totally out of keeping with Trek, and would have turned me off at first glance.
———————————————————————————–
436 Horta, I too give thanks that Abrams, Et. Al., revived Star Trek. My only wish, as others have said, is that the action in the next film slow down longer than a New York minute to let the excellent cast do some acting together, discussing, arguing, and showing concern for each other. The best scenes in STiD involved these things: the ‘Vulcano’ Prime Directive argument; the walk into and the dialogue in, Pike’s office, and before the emergency meeting; the death of Pike [DAMMIT], Spock and Kirk talking as he succumbed to the radiation [tho the less said about KHANNN the better], Kirk’s talk with Khan in the brig, his chat with Uhura in the lift and so on. And the dialogue still had to rush along for the most part b/c the movie went pell-mell almost all the way through.
————————————————————————————
441 G Makin, Casting an A-list actor would cost an AWFUL lot; I don’t think that’s helpful to the budget, and really isn’t necessary. And then the A List actor, instead of the Enterprise crew, would “lead” the film, not a good prospect *unless* they do this in a “Doomsday Machine” plot with a commodore [A-list actor] driven crazy by the deaths of his whole crew/a planet, whatever. I can see Denzel Washington, Harrison Ford, or Tom Hanks possibly doing this. And if the actor is a Trek fan so much the better; they might negotiate at lower than their usual rate, though it’s unrealistic. I definitely agree the next movie should be “less dark” in tone.
————————————————————————————-
MJ at 452 said @451 [Keachick,] “Why are your bringing up this Khan racial issue again? Really, hasn’t everyone [on] all sides said enough on this issue???”

452 MJ, The reason Keachick brought it up “So it’s OK to “Latino-wash” a character said to be of North Indian descent…?” is because of TUP’s post at 444: “I will agree the handling of Khan was a mistake. Had they cast a Latino actor I am sure they would not have kept it a secret.” Perhaps the Bad Robot team thought that was perfectly okay. But there would have been equal backlash to what there’s been with the casting of BCumberbatch.

TUP said other, wiser things about the handling of Khan but this “Latino” statement seems to assume the casting practices of the 1960s would be equally acceptable in the 2010s. Probably not so much. The “tired discussion” will keep rearing up until people stop making this assertion.

Speaking of tired discussions, plenty of other things have been done to death on the Board – Box Office numbers, nasty charges leveled at other posters and equally nasty replies. This is *not* aimed at you in particular; IMHO we could all benefit from being more civil to one another than we sometimes are.

478. Craiger - July 14, 2013

I think it could be the reason we keep talking about STID is that their isn’t new Trek articles being posted on this site that aren’t about the movie. Their is only about a month and four days before this site expires on August 18th. So far it hasn’t been renewed and now word on the future of Trekmovie.

Domain Name: TREKMOVIE.COM

Created on…………..: 2006-08-18 17:57:16 GMT
Expires on…………..: 2013-08-18 23:58:15 GMT
Last modified on……..: 2012-08-19 23:58:19 GMT

479. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

Tom Hanks is a Star Trek fan. There were talks about him being in First Contact as Zefram Cochrane. In the end, they went with the lesser known James Cromwell, in part because Hanks was such a huge star then it might have overbalanced the picture. (Yeah, it would have overbalanced the picture to two-thirds bigger domestic box office!

I recall the very young RDJ, back when he made his wacky The Last Party documentary on the 1992 presidential campaign, being a Star Trek fan ….

Not that he might overbalance the picture.

>441 G Makin, Casting an A-list actor would cost an AWFUL lot; I don’t think that’s helpful to the budget, and really isn’t necessary. And then the A List actor, instead of the Enterprise crew, would “lead” the film, not a good prospect *unless* they do this in a “Doomsday Machine” plot with a commodore [A-list actor] driven crazy by the deaths of his whole crew/a planet, whatever. I can see Denzel Washington, Harrison Ford, or Tom Hanks possibly doing this. And if the actor is a Trek fan so much the better; they might negotiate at lower than their usual rate, though it’s unrealistic. I definitely agree the next movie should be “less dark” in tone.

480. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

470. Marja – July 14, 2013

Tom Hanks is a Star Trek fan. There were talks about him being in First Contact as Zefram Cochrane. In the end, they went with the lesser known James Cromwell, in part because Hanks was such a huge star then it might have overbalanced the picture. (Yeah, it would have overbalanced the picture to two-thirds bigger domestic box office!

I recall the very young RDJ, back when he made his wacky The Last Party documentary on the 1992 presidential campaign, being a Star Trek fan ….

Not that he might overbalance the picture or anything.

>441 G Makin, Casting an A-list actor would cost an AWFUL lot; I don’t think that’s helpful to the budget, and really isn’t necessary. And then the A List actor, instead of the Enterprise crew, would “lead” the film, not a good prospect *unless* they do this in a “Doomsday Machine” plot with a commodore [A-list actor] driven crazy by the deaths of his whole crew/a planet, whatever. I can see Denzel Washington, Harrison Ford, or Tom Hanks possibly doing this. And if the actor is a Trek fan so much the better; they might negotiate at lower than their usual rate, though it’s unrealistic. I definitely agree the next movie should be “less dark” in tone.

481. Red Dead Ryan - July 14, 2013

I still haven’t seen Devon offer his apology….

I still haven’t seen Montreal_Paul acknowledge that some of us here were right about Khan and that he was wrong….

#467.

“However they have done a full out war before in DS9. Unless JJ can do a different take on the Klingos and the Federation/Klingon War since that has never been shown on screen except for a brief moment in Errand of Mercy?”

If the next movie is going to be about another damn Klingon-Federation war, then its going to be hard for me to get excited about it. And the movie may end up bombing badly because we have already seen the damn Klingons dozens of times before on tv and in the movies.

482. Mitchell - July 14, 2013

435. Ahmed -
this is a world where brain damaging films like avengers, transformers and iron man/spiderman 3 make billions. NOTHING Surprises me anymore.

483. Art-Bob - July 14, 2013

People will complain no matter what
I mean listen to the drivel
They don’t want this They dont want that
Do this Do that
The so called critics need to grow up

Don’t listen to any of them
I thought the movie was fantastic

If GOD made the move, people would bitch bitch bitch

I am a life long STAR TREK fan
and I say good job

To you out there in skeptic land
What do you want?
No movies at all?
dummies

Thrusters on FULL

484. Curious Cadet - July 14, 2013

@470 Marja,
” the A List actor, instead of the Enterprise crew, would “lead” the film, not a good prospect *unless* they do this in a “Doomsday Machine” plot with a commodore [A-list actor] driven crazy by the deaths of his whole crew/a planet, whatever.”

Two things to consider — one: STID had more than enough money to hire an A-list actor. They just put it into different stuff — a LOT of different stuff when you consider most of the sets, props and costumes were already paid for in ST09.

The second: I look at it is way — when I first saw Where No Man Has Gone Before, I had already seen 2001 A Space Odyssey and MASH. Therefore, when I finally saw WNMHGB, the actors who portrayed Mitchell and Dayner were already sucessful stars. As a result they actually give WNMHGB a cinematic quality, and elevate it to a degree I don’t think any other episode achieves. And neither overshadowed the rest of the crew. There’s absolutely no reason an A-List actor can’t compliment this crew in the same manner in the right role.

An A List actor is absolutely essential to international box-office growth and legitimizing Star Trek as a billion dollar franchise. It tells audiences who have not traditionally embraced Trek, that it is worthy of their favorite actors.

485. Disinvited - July 14, 2013

#420. William Bradley – July 14, 2013

Finally, a bit of clarity. Your beef against me is you believe me guilty of a thought crime against you. Well, your attempts to successfully ghost write for me to the point where others give me credit for your talent and skill while generous and very entertaining prove nothing in that regard.

For the record when I composed the sentence “Indeed, but for me, Cameron’s DARK ANGEL TV series had covered the drone issue in flickering images just prior and after 9/11.”, I very specifically added the phrase “but for me” precisely because I did not want you or others to conclude that I thought everyone should have gotten the message from what I knew was a cult show of limited appeal.

It is to be hoped that that is good enough to put this matter to rest.

486. Charles Trotter - July 14, 2013

Tom Hanks as Matt Decker in the next ‘Trek.’ I don’t care that he’s older than Windom was when he played the part. Hanks would be perfect.

Make it so.

487. Mitchell - July 14, 2013

@476. Curious Cadet – July 14, 2013

“An A List actor is absolutely essential to international box-office growth and legitimizing Star Trek as a billion dollar franchise. It tells audiences who have not traditionally embraced Trek, that it is worthy of their favorite actors.”

^THIS^
Nothing matters more for Star Trek going forward than this. Firmly talented players from top to bottom. it’s not that a lot of people ‘don’t like’ these actors because they are not the originals, they are just over matched with the parts of the material that matter most. They are capable of delivering comedic one liners but not much else above that.

Story Material/Acting quality first
Effects second
slapstick comedy third should be the formula, not the other way around.

488. Ahmed - July 14, 2013

@476. Curious Cadet – July 14, 2013

“An A List actor is absolutely essential to international box-office growth and legitimizing Star Trek as a billion dollar franchise. It tells audiences who have not traditionally embraced Trek, that it is worthy of their favorite actors.”

Exactly, with the big STID budget, they could have hired an A-list actor but they didn’t do that. BC is an excellent actor but he is not an A-list yet.

Tom Hanks or another big star will make a big difference when it come to the box office domestically & internationally.

489. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

My “beef” against you is that you bore me with your endless games and whatever. Your intricate rationalizations go unread after the first two sentences.

Kindly stop.

>477. Disinvited – July 14, 2013
#420. William Bradley – July 14, 2013

Finally, a bit of clarity. Your beef against me is you believe me guilty of a thought crime against you.

490. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

Just look at how the Marvel, Batman, and Bond films have taken to filling out the casts with Oscar nominees and established name actors and actresses.

>An A List actor is absolutely essential to international box-office growth and legitimizing Star Trek as a billion dollar franchise. It tells audiences who have not traditionally embraced Trek, that it is worthy of their favorite actors.

491. William Bradley - July 14, 2013

Sorry, Avengers and Iron Man are very smart movies.

Let’s not pretend that these Star Trek films are more intellectually sophisticated, intelligent, or challenging.

They most certainly are not.

In fact, quite the opposite.

Iron Man/Tony Stark in particular has much more to say that is culturally, politically, and technologically relevant than the Trek films of today.

>475. Mitchell – July 14, 2013
435. Ahmed -
this is a world where brain damaging films like avengers, transformers and iron man/spiderman 3 make billions. NOTHING Surprises me anymore.

492. AnthonyDCZar - July 14, 2013

#362 Mitchell

Being old (I grew up watching Trek in the 70′s when first syndicated) I appreciated the nods to Shakespeare throughout the series. Next Generation did so as well- it’s why “good” trek often uses trained Shakespearian actors. Undiscovered Country (Until you’ve read him in the original Klingon).

Whedon similarly writes drama that encompasses the wide field of human emotions and owes his talent to Shakespearian roots.

My point is, you may try to dismiss Whedon’s contributions, but he writes like DC Fontana, Gene Coon, David Gerrold – except he is better at fleshing out characters. It’s why Jane Espenson (DS9/Buffy) worked for both.. So what is your gripe against him really?

And sorry, but Firefly is the closest thing to the original Star Trek I’ve seen yet.

493. Spacer Z. Shooter - July 14, 2013

So the franchise is gonna be killed again, this time by people so stupid, they prefer explosions and effects as opposed to a decent plot? What’s next, football, more important than science?

494. MJ (The Original). - July 15, 2013

This A-list actor thing for Star Trek is a complete crock of shit. Re: Liam Neeson in Phantom Menace, Richard Pryor in Superman 3, Hoffman and Streisand in Meet the Fockers.

Enough said. LOL

495. MJ (The Original). - July 15, 2013

@492. Nope, Space 1999 was much closer to TOS than Firefly.

496. Star Sick: the Original Generation - July 15, 2013

The next Star Trek movie should have Captain Wesley Crusher of the U.S.S Enterprise F transporting in and busting everybody’s chops, then shuffling them all off to therapy while he saves the universe from the Borg, V’Ger, the ’85 Chicago Bears, and William Shatner all at the same time, by himself.

Then at the end, the holodeck doors open and we see Lt. Barclay return to duty. “Another great holonovel,” he says.

FADE TO BLACK.

497. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@491. William Bradley -
whoa there, no where have i ever attributed sophistication to the recent Trek films lol! very much the opposite! ha ha. However trying to assert marvel and iron man especially to being any better is just laughable.

@492. AnthonyDCZar -
Agree and relate with your first paragraph, i caught Trek in the 80′s. but whedon i simply see for what he is, a hack.

498. MJ (The Original). - July 15, 2013

@496. An unapologetic elitist! I may not agree with you, but I respect you!

499. William Bradley - July 15, 2013

Your assertions are absurd.

Maybe you just don’t like genre cinema, in which case you are more than a little lost on a Star Trek board.

>496. Mitchell – July 15, 2013
@491. William Bradley -
whoa there, no where have i ever attributed sophistication to the recent Trek films lol! very much the opposite! ha ha. However trying to assert marvel and iron man especially to being any better is just laughable.

@492. AnthonyDCZar -
Agree and relate with your first paragraph, i caught Trek in the 80′s. but whedon i simply see for what he is, a hack.

500. William Bradley - July 15, 2013

What are you drinking?

>493. MJ (The Original). – July 15, 2013
This A-list actor thing for Star Trek is a complete crock of shit. Re: Liam Neeson in Phantom Menace, Richard Pryor in Superman 3, Hoffman and Streisand in Meet the Fockers.

Enough said. LOL

501. Jim Nightshade - July 15, 2013

465 ahmed…haha was me in an alternate universe a compliment or not….it was the alternate universe of a kindle fire hd 8.9 lousy virtual keyboard…..no using a nintendo 3ds much easier more accurate even tho im lyin down in bed haha….course the regular computer keyboard is always best..sorry for the confusion n thanx for trying to read my post haha..

502. MJ (The Original). - July 15, 2013

@499. Is it that obvious?

Drink and overwork — I should not be posting tonight. :-)

Good night, William.

503. Khan 2.0 - July 15, 2013

@486 – id prefer Stephen Collins as Matt Decker :)

504. William Bradley - July 15, 2013

Yep.

Good night. :)

>501. MJ (The Original). – July 15, 2013
@499. Is it that obvious?

Drink and overwork — I should not be posting tonight. :-)

Good night, William.

505. Classy M - July 15, 2013

Fans camped out overnight at Narita Airport in Tokyo to welcome Benedict Cumberbatch. Japanese sites report somewhere between 1000-6000 fans, plus 30 media outlets were present to greet him when he arrived.

BC addressed the crowd briefly, apologised that he could not sign autographs (on orders of airport security) but reminded them that he was in Japan to promote ‘Star Trek into Darkness’ and asked them to come see the film.

Tomorrow he has TV appearances and other publicity, then will be present at 3 separate showings of the film.

506. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@499. William Bradley
nothing absurd or lost about calling what’s awful, awful. We live in the era of Sharknado and Swede Films. Arguments can and are made lol that those things have aspects that are “culturally, politically, and technologically relevant”

however i am interested what you saw in “the avengers, iron man 2 and iron man 3″ that are not just culturally/politically/technologically relevant but “much more” so (as you put it) than the last two star trek films.

507. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@505. Classy M: “sites report somewhere between 1000-6000 fans”

well it’s good they have the number narrowed down :)

508. William Bradley - July 15, 2013

What could be more pointless than having such a discussion with someone who calls these very well-reviewed and extraordinary successful films packed with Oscar nominees and other A-list talent “awful?”

>506. Mitchell – July 15, 2013
@499. William Bradley
nothing absurd or lost about calling what’s awful, awful. We live in the era of Sharknado and Swede Films. Arguments can and are made lol that those things have aspects that are “culturally, politically, and technologically relevant”

however i am interested what you saw in “the avengers, iron man 2 and iron man 3″ that are not just culturally/politically/technologically relevant but “much more” so (as you put it) than the last two star trek films.

509. Classy M - July 15, 2013

@507 Mitchell – It depends on which website you go by. I’m also using Google to translate and I’m sure you know what a hit-and-miss operation that is. ‘When Benedict speak, room is filled with yellow joy.’ Poetic, but not terribly specific. : )

Going by the video footage I’d say 1000 was closer to the mark. I’ll try to link it in my next post. With luck it won’t be deleted.

510. Classy M - July 15, 2013

Video of Benedict’s arrival in Tokyo: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/benvisit?utm_campaign=ustre-am&utm_source=15132753&utm_medium=social

511. Vultan - July 15, 2013

Is there really such a thing as an ‘A-list star’ anymore? Oh sure, they can say someone is an A-lister all they want, as if the title means anything beyond nightclubs and press agents, but when was the last time an actor made a movie a mega hit with his/her name alone?

Horseman pass, Johnny Depp.

512. Jerry Modene - July 15, 2013

Actually, Star Trek movies did do the A-list thing with Insurrection, when F. Murray Abraham starred as Ruafo. Didn’t help – it was a poor movie.

513. CJS - July 15, 2013

I wouldn’t put F. Murray Abraham on the A-list. He’s B list at best, and by the time he did Star Trek was probably more of a C-lister. Cruise. Pitt. Hanks. Depp. DiCaprio. These are your current A-list actors, and even they can’t ensure a box-office hit.

514. AnthonyDCZar - July 15, 2013

MJ #495
Forgot that show, thank you.
I suppose I should have said contemporary.

515. Trek in a Cafe - July 15, 2013

It’s interesting that this film is so controversial. Right? We’ve been going on and on about it for months.

While other films inspired comments like, “odd bad, even good” that has never seemed to come up here.

So, It seems to me, that after a few viewings of STID, and conversations with lots of non-Trek fans who happened to see the film, that it’s the ending, the re-use of Khan, etc that divides fans (some accept it, some don’t).

What may have seemed laugh out loud to people who knew WOK, did not effect newcomers who were moved by Kirk’s sacrifice.

So therefore, as far as getting A list people involved, there is no nostalgia as a motivating factor when approached to be part of the JJ verse, since Bad Robot has been obviously making many decisions based primarily on money. We can even say that the running time of STID could be three minutes longer, and everyone would have been satisfied instead of running to comic books to find out why Khan looks like this, or what is the symbolism of that, etc. It seems clear from these lists that JJ would never mention what Bob Orci thinks about why the missles are like drones, and what we might be directed to think about them.

The irony, as stated above, is that Iron Man is not afraid to wear it’s politics on it’s sleeve, present it’s own narrative ironies as part of the narrative, and also entertain. Because that is what it’s like to live in the world right now. Every experience is a continual negotiation between being an honest contributor and being a slave to a system which is out of control and effects the world. From people growing organic turnips to apps for weapons developers. Iron Man realizes we are all part of a system.

Why Star Trek is continually thwarted when it attempts to do that is beyond anyone on this list. TOS may present a lightning in the bottle situation, but we, fans, are all going around the campfire, saying, “But I saw it, I did!”

516. AnthonyDCZar - July 15, 2013

MJ #495

As for Whedon, I have always enjoyed his (team’s) writing/production more than JJ’s (teams). I guessed they were dead in Lost before end of first season; Fringe was great for the first few episodes, but then lost its X-Files feel; never liked Alias.

So we can agree to disagree about Whedon.

517. runner - July 15, 2013

Sorry but I need to quote this paragraph in its entirety:

“How will Paramount respond to the modest success of Star Trek Into Darkness? Possibly by reducing the budget of the third film. This could be a good thing, in that a reduced budget could increase focus on telling a tight story and on character moments. A Star Trek sequel with a reduced budget wouldn’t be anything new – Paramount cut the budget for the first Trek sequel, and in return we got The Wrath of Khan. Less money doesn’t mean reduced quality – sometimes budgetary constraints can produce creative solutions and better ideas.”

That’s all well and good, but in order to do that, you need a great story and an equally great script. Wrath of Khan worked because Nicholas Meyer is an amazing writer/director. The Supreme Court (that’s how I believe Orci, Kurtzman, Abrams, etc, refer to themselves) created the last film in a very rushed, ad hoc, hackneyed kind of way and, in my opinion, you cannot create a great movie like that and it’s why the reaction to the film was less than expected. You need a single creative force with a clear, strong, original vision guiding the next film, and that will not be so if the creative process behind Into Darkness happens again.

518. PaulB - July 15, 2013

#516 – “I guessed they were dead in Lost before end of first season…” So did a lot of people, and everyone was WRONG. They didn’t die in the plane crash, as the writers have openly stated since the show’s end. We see some of their various deaths along the way, but they aren’t all dead until the END of the final season. So, you guessed wrong: how does that relate to the writing/production quality?

I agree that Whedon’s team is better than JJ’s, though.

519. SoonerDave - July 15, 2013

I’ve got the plot for the next Trek movie.

Klingons in the Alternate Universe discover the Doomsday Machine, and modify and even learn how to duplicate it for use in their war against the Federation. Kirk and Crew come upon the Constellation as a first-attack vicitm, then have to figure out how to dismantle all of them.

Hey, something for a change of pace here…

520. dmduncan - July 15, 2013

Whedon is a very talented guy, but other than being SF set in space, the only thing Firefly has in common with TOS is TOS’s original pitch as “Wagon Train to the stars” which actually fits Firefly better than it does Star Trek.

For me, Star Trek, Firefly, and BSG rebooted are the best SF series ever put on TV. They run in a pack very far ahead of the next best thing. All three of them feel “inspired.”

521. SirBroiler - July 15, 2013

I’m in the camp where I wasn’t upset that they chose to pursue a Khan story – but I was disappointed in the casting of Cumberbatch. It just didn’t feel like he was the right actor for the part. Great actor, but not Khan.

So then, maybe out of desperation, deep in my heart and mind I was convinced that we would see a Trek III reveal that Cumby wasn’t Khan at all – but was another augment, maybe Joachim, protecting the identity of the real Khan who was still slumbering in his cryotube.

The revelation that a new Eugenics Wars comic – featuring Cumberbatch’s Khan – is a real disappointment. They had an open door to fix what I think many thought was a major misstep in the story/casting. By reinforcing it with the comics it sounds like they are sticking to their guns. Cumby is really Khan. Depressing.

522. SirBroiler - July 15, 2013

I’m in the camp where I wasn’t upset that they chose to pursue a Khan story – but I was disappointed in the casting of Cumberbatch. It just didn’t feel like he was the right actor for the part. Great actor, but not Khan.

So then, maybe out of desperation, deep in my heart and mind I was convinced that we would see a Trek III reveal that Cumby wasn’t Khan at all – but was another augment, maybe Joachim, protecting the identity of the real Khan who was still slumbering in his cryotube.

The revelation that a new Eugenics Wars comic – featuring Cumberbatch’s Khan – is a real disappointment. They had an open door to fix what I think many thought was a major misstep in the story/casting. By reinforcing it with the comics it sounds like they are sticking to their guns. Cumby is really Khan. Depressing.

523. Mad Mann - July 15, 2013

RE: A-listers.

Movie star fame does not translate into a larger box office, at least not here in the States. Example 1: Will Smith’s After Earth. Example 2: Tom Cruise’s Rock of Ages. Example 3: Jonny Depp’s Lone Ranger. Big names, small box office.

I think that a movie star can still pull in numbers internationally, especially in places like China, but not enough to make the difference.

If you look at some of the biggest movies of all time, they didn’t have much star-power. Titanic and Avatar really had no A or even B-listers (maybe Kathy Bates in Titanic) but they did well since they hit across all the demographics and had lots of repeat business. Other movies do well from a franchise (Dark Knight and Avengers) or from a popular book (LOTR, Twilight, Hunger Games, Harry Potter).

Star Trek IS part of a franchise, but not a very popular one. Star Trek still carries the stigma of being nerdy and un-cool, and that is a hard hurdle for a movie to get over. I am the only Trek-fan among my friends and family, and I can tell you they would never watch Star Trek. Some have seen Avengers, they all see Dark Knight, and the woman are all Channing Tatum fans. My point is Star Trek will never be a blockbuster, no amount of “star power” will help it. It has it’s niche and I think it best to just stay there.

524. Shannon Nutt - July 15, 2013

I doubt anyone at Paramount monitors these forums, but as a life-long Trekkie, I’d be MUCH more excited about a Ron Moore series than another Bad Robot movies. The movies are entertaining, but they have little to do with the “Star Trek” I know and love.

525. Mad Mann - July 15, 2013

RE: The benefits of a smaller budget:

1) More space battles! Space battles are much cheaper than a fire-fight (or fist-fight on a moving barge or drill platform). We have all been wanting to see the new Big E really duke it out with it’s phasers and photon torpedoes swinging! And we want to see Kirk shout commands from his actual command chair! I think we saw enough of Nu-Kirk fight with his fists and phasers, let’s see the Kirk fight the way Kirk SHOULD fight: from his captain’s chair barking orders to his crew. And THAT can be done very cheap and very effective.

2) Less ridiculousness. I wish someone would explain to me the point of hiding the Enterprise underwater, other than for the “money shot” of the ship rising from the water. OR the stupid street chase at the end between Khan and Spock. As I watch those scenes, I basically watch about $20-$30 million of wasted budget. THAT could have been a new Trek TV show or something.

3) We get to watch the actors actually ACT! Good acting to me is not shouting or crying, but by actually moving an audience through shear protrayal of character. The scene in TWOK between McCoy and Kirk in Kirk’s apartment is the best acting I have ever scene by either actor. That kind of scene can only happen when all the explosions and running is taken out and you need an exposition scene to take place with the only action of exploring theme and character.

526. TechnicolorStarTrek - July 15, 2013

There goes MJ Demanding things again.
MJ you are not the oversee-er of this site, quit bullying people who do not agree with you. So sick of The MJ Morning show that is allowed to continue on here.

Not everyone has to agree with you MJ

Can someone who is a moderator step in again please?

439. MJ (The Original). – July 14, 2013

@432 / Ahmed (to Devon): “You need to apologize to MJ & me right now Mister.”?

Devon, you owe us a full and unconditional apology on this.

Additionally, we are all still waiting for you to provide your full proff — through quotes from past posts the last five years here — on when I have lied on Trekmovie.com.

If you have realized that perhaps you jumped to a conclusion here that you can’t support regarding your defamatory comments, I am prepared to accept your heartfelt apology and put this behind us. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, we say things that we later regret.

527. Jeff O'Connor - July 15, 2013

I’m not saying this to be contrarian, although I’m certain some of you will think so. I’m not saying this to start a huge flame war, although certainly some fellow Trek enthusiasts have taken these words as such in the past. But I genuinely prefer Cumberbatch’s Khan.

It’s a rare thing, I know, but I’m not the huge fan of Star Trek II that the majority of the fandom is. I legitimately prefer VI… and quite possibly III and IV as well. Yes, I can hear a couple of the screams even now. “III? What the hell are you smoking?” Yes, I’ve watched the fan documentaries on how and why The Wrath of Khan is the truly flawless science fiction film. And how and why Ricardo Montalban’s performance will forever be unrivaled. Yet I have simply never felt it.

I could analyze the possible reasons for this tediously, but I don’t think anyone (and definitely not I) would want to bother sifting through all that jargon. I’m simply bringing this up to prove that there are folks out there with every opinion under the sun. For this lifelong Trek fan, Into Darkness is fantastic — and Cumberbatch’s Khan didn’t try to “replace the magic” for me because the magic was only halfway there from the first.

528. TUP - July 15, 2013

I have no real issue with them casting a Brit as Khan just as I didnt mind a Latino playing an Indian. I just think its sort of silly. I wouldn’t want a Latino or a black guy playing Kirk. Sorry, but Kirk is a white American. Yeah, Khan was Indian but I can at least buy a latino playing an Indian.

But the problem here is the character was iconic and they changed him. BC was fantastic. But he can’t become an Indian through good acting.

I will say however, STID was way better than ST09.

529. Disinvited - July 15, 2013

#489. William Bradley – July 14, 2013

C’est la vie.

530. Disinvited - July 15, 2013

#517. runner – July 15, 2013

Given that the current front runner for 2 weeks in a row cost only $70 million to make, you might want to add “animated” to your list of qualities that it should have.

531. Curious Cadet - July 15, 2013

492. AnthonyDCZar,
“it’s why “good” trek often uses trained Shakespearian actors.”

I have spoken to some of the former cast over the years regarding this exact phenomenon of Star Trek casting, and I’m of the conclusion it’s not by accident.

Shakespearean actors are used to conveying simple meanings behind complex language that most in the audience don’t understand, and are unaccustomed to hearing.

They also tend to deal with much larger-than-life subjects than the average actor in Hollywood — King Lear, Hamlet, MacBeth, Richard III. The gravitas needed to convey these characters translates well to the epic larger than life characters of Star Trek, and the often god-like aliens world changing events they they encounter.

And lastly, they have the ability to ‘act’ through the makeup appliances many must wear for their roles.

All of these things put such classically trained actors at an advantage over most others.

532. Craiger - July 15, 2013

I found this Mr. Plinkett reviews STID. Warning some bad language in the review. He basically say STID is just copying all other ideas from previous Trek films and series.

http://redlettermedia.com/mr-plinkett-star-trek-into-reference/

533. Disinvited - July 15, 2013

#526. TUP – July 15, 2013

To my mind, while I am more than aware of how it has been used in the past to unscientifically divide populations for classification of “suitability”, skin color should have no more bearing on what we make of the suitability of a person to perform any entertaining task than, say, the color of our fur. But I suppose the conventional implied meaning of the phrase “redheaded child” means there’s some divisiveness in that as well?

534. dmduncan - July 15, 2013

@ 525. Mad Mann – July 15, 2013

A smaller budget = less ridiculousness?

You must have missed Sharknado.

535. Agent69 - July 15, 2013

Alfonso Cuarón? Yes please.

536. CJS - July 15, 2013

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1710537/star-trek-3-filming-next-year.jhtml

So says Quinto, but Paramount doesn’t confirm.

537. dmduncan - July 15, 2013

My sequel wish:

Klingonapalooza!

538. Vultan - July 15, 2013

#523

Well put.

Feels like I’ve been watching Steve Urkel trying to look like one of the cool kids for the past four or five movies, with decidedly mixed results. And as the latest string of mega-flops have proven, big budget does not guarantee big success.

To twist the words of James Carville: it’s the story, stupid!

539. dmduncan - July 15, 2013

There’s no formula. Big budgets don’t mean big success. Small budgets don’t mean big success. In-between budgets don’t mean big success.

Big success is what you get when a lot of people turn out to see your movie, and sometimes that movie is The Smurfs.

There’s no formula. Scotty won’t write that equation for another 200 years.

540. Vultan - July 15, 2013

We can’t all be as cool as the Smurfs.

541. Aurore - July 15, 2013

“….It’s a rare thing, I know, but I’m not the huge fan of Star Trek II that the majority of the fandom is….”
__________

I do not know whether or not it is a rare thing, but, I never was the huge fan of Star Trek II ( or Space Seed ) that the majority of the fandom (online, at least) appears to be, either.

To say that Khan is far from being my favourite villain would be an understatement.

For certain reasons, when I watch the sequel, I strongly doubt I will like Mr. Cumberbatch’s Khan.

However, I might have some appreciation for his “John Harrison”…

“…I’m simply bringing this up to prove that there are folks out there with every opinion under the sun….”

Absolutely.

542. Vultan - July 15, 2013

#525

About the ridiculousness.

It’s probably true when you have a huge budget you’re more likely to indulge in flat-out stupid eye candy ideas, but keep in mind Final Frontier had a much smaller budget in comparison and has its share of ridiculous, cringe-worthy moments as well.

They really need to invest in a damn good script. Maybe a smaller budget will force them to do that. But…. maybe not.

543. MikeMCP - July 15, 2013

Maybe if we’re lucky we will get to see an older, “latino-like” Luke Skywalker in the next Star Wars movie. After all, aren’t we to believe that the ethnicity of an established fictional character shouldn’t REALLY matter when it comes to casting, because “it’s only a movie.” Oh wait, that would really PISS of the Star Wars fans out there due to the sheer ridiculousness of the proposition. It’s only Star Trek canon Abrams and company are comfortable pissing all over. I really hope Paramount fires all of these jokers for the next film. Abrams is a turncoat, it’s not like Paramount owes him loyalty.

544. Disinvited - July 15, 2013

#539. dmduncan – July 15, 2013

Excellent point, unfortunately (or fortunately for those whose tastes benefit from pedestrian thinking), I don’t think the people at the studios that fund productions understand your simple truth. They seem to back whatever is [What's the word for it now? Oh, yes.] “trending.”

545. Disinvited - July 15, 2013

#543. MikeMCP – July 15, 2013

Not if those fans realize that the odds of something long ago in a galaxy far far away that looks like a WASP actually being a WASP is literally astronomical.

Granted Trek touched on that as well, but at least they came up with a few mechanisms to explain the significantly reduced odds within the SAME galaxy.

546. Nerdglasses - July 15, 2013

20frackin16 Jeebus

Bring trek back to TV

547. Marja - July 15, 2013

Wm Bradley, Et. Al., I’d love to see Tom Hanks as Matt Decker! RDJ, I think is a little committed to two, count ‘em two, other franchises, but what a lovely thought. For some reason, in the back of my mind, I keep “remembering” Denzel Washington as a Trek fan also, but I could be wrong. Being around my age, maybe younger, he may have seen and looked up to all the African-American actors on TOS such as William Marshall (Dr Daystrom) and, of course, Ms Nichelle Nichols, and perhaps mentioned this in an interview I saw. Based on his latest performances, most notably “Flight,” he’d make a terrific Matt Decker. But so would Mr Hanks!

528, TUP, “…no real issue with them casting a Brit as Khan just as I didnt mind a Latino playing an Indian. I just think its sort of silly. I wouldn’t want a Latino or a black guy playing Kirk. Sorry, but Kirk is a white American. Yeah, Khan was Indian but I can at least buy a latino playing an Indian.
But the problem here is the character was iconic and they changed him. BC was fantastic. But he can’t become an Indian through good acting.
I will say however, STID was way better than ST09.
——————————————-
OK TUP, I at least agree with your last two paragraphs! As for the first one, batten down the hatches, TUP, and prepare for heavy weather ….

Personally, I say again, they should’ve just left Cumby “John Harrison.” Or made him Joachim.Was it Lindelof’s bright idea to make him Khan? THAT backfired.

That said, in theatre, I did not mind the “reversal” and twist on WOK; Pine and Quinto were wonderful in the scene. The only thing that ruined it was The Scream. I still think it should have been the same rage-filled NOOO! that Spock yelled just before he beat up Kirk in the first film. That would’ve made a perfect “circle” ….

548. MJ (The Original). - July 15, 2013

This “let’s cut the budget to make a great Star Trek movie” is prehaps one of the most idiotic things I have ever read in posts here on Trekmovie.com.

549. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@508. William Bradley – July 15, 2013
awful doesn’t really do justice to describing how horrible they are (minus a few entries) but the fact you can’t even list 3 to 5 things off the top of your head to prove your points speaks volumes.

For what it’s worth, the only marvel films i think fit what you were describing and also best the last two star trek films as such are:
X2
Iron Man (2008)
X-MEN
that’s about it and only by just barely.

on the ideas of being “culturally, politically, and technologically relevant” as you put it.

550. Steve - July 15, 2013

I once saw a report that CBS/Paramount places a net value on the entire Star Trek franchise as somewhere in the 5-7 billion (billion with a b) dollar range. I don’t know if this is from merchandising, worldwide sales of reruns, or whatever. No matter. The problem with getting a decent movie made nowadays (heck, in any days) is internal politics, what director you can get to direct, which stars will attach to that director, who is producing, etc.

Of course, a lot of this depends on the value the creators place in a franchise. Robert Wise wasn’t a Star Trek fan when he directed TMP but he made sure he was well versed in Trek by before he even set foot on the sound stage by watching every episode of TOS at least once. He knew what it meant to the fans. Does TMP fire on all cylinders? No. But Wise’s Trek feels more like Trek than JJTrek.

551. William Bradley - July 15, 2013

I already told you it is a waste of my time to have a discussion with someone so ludicrously biased as you on this.

These are very well-reviewed and highly successful films with casts the caliber of which Star Trek could only hope to emulate.

Your “stance” is mindless trolling.

Don’t waste any more of my time with silly challenges.

>548. Mitchell – July 15, 2013
@508. William Bradley – July 15, 2013
awful doesn’t really do justice to describing how horrible they are (minus a few entries) but the fact you can’t even list 3 to 5 things off the top of your head to prove your points speaks volumes.

552. William Bradley - July 15, 2013

I already told you it is a waste of my time to have a discussion with someone so ludicrously biased as you on this.

These are very well-reviewed and highly successful films with casts the caliber of which Star Trek could only hope to emulate.

Your “stance” is mindless trolling.

>548. Mitchell – July 15, 2013
@508. William Bradley – July 15, 2013
awful doesn’t really do justice to describing how horrible they are (minus a few entries) but the fact you can’t even list 3 to 5 things off the top of your head to prove your points speaks volumes.

553. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@551. William Bradley – July 15, 2013
@552. William Bradley – July 15, 2013
LMAO! …you are quite full of yourself :)

554. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@551. William Bradley – July 15, 2013
@552. William Bradley – July 15, 2013
LMAO! …you are quite full of yourself :)

555. William Bradley - July 15, 2013

Tom Hanks and a couple of other folks could make for a terrific movie.

Not sure how gettable RDJ would be now, as he is the only guy with two big franchises going. But a smaller role could be do-able, along with Thor himself, who should be back in any event.

>547. Marja – July 15, 2013
Wm Bradley, Et. Al., I’d love to see Tom Hanks as Matt Decker! RDJ, I think is a little committed to two, count ‘em two, other franchises, but what a lovely thought. For some reason, in the back of my mind, I keep “remembering” Denzel Washington as a Trek fan also, but I could be wrong. Being around my age, maybe younger, he may have seen and looked up to all the African-American actors on TOS such as William Marshall (Dr Daystrom) and, of course, Ms Nichelle Nichols, and perhaps mentioned this in an interview I saw. Based on his latest performances, most notably “Flight,” he’d make a terrific Matt Decker. But so would Mr Hanks!

556. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@550. Steve – July 15, 2013
“net” would indicate the value of everything, unless there are some outside contracts or values apart from viacom that would be factored in.
$7 billion sounds right, and that’s the problem for fans who want some one else to move in and buy it away from them. you’d have to have $8 Billion that was known to just be sitting around to begin with to even get their attention as buyers.

557. William Bradley - July 15, 2013

Now you are adding jerk to troll.

Obviously this site is going a little slow, sport.

Pissing me off is not going to get more attention to your silly arguments about the Avengers than this.

Notice nobody is interested.

554. Mitchell – July 15, 2013

558. Jack - July 15, 2013

A smaller budget isn’t the answer — you can have a ‘wow’ movie, Trek or otherwise, full of eye candy and action — with a script that makes sense.

The trouble with both Trek 09 and 2013 isn’t Abrams — it’s that the scripts are full of coincidences and holes. Whether Orci seriously believes the QM=repetition nonsense or whether he’s just bullshitting — the idea that the ‘universe is correcting itself’ so things will repeat makes for lousy stories.

Heck, Pacific Rim is pure action adventure, but it still works as a fun summer movie…

559. Craiger - July 15, 2013

So the Alternate Universe will correct itself and eventually become TOS and the TOS movies? If that’s the case then why bother going forward when all that’s been done already? It will basically be just TOS with updated SFX.

560. Craiger - July 15, 2013

Unless it would be neat to see TOS with updated SFX? I know they did that with TOS Remastered but that didn’t have the SFX quality that the Abrams films have. Also if they Alternate Universe becomes the TOS Universe then shouldn’t they have just did a full reboot anyway without time travel involved?

561. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@557. William Bradley-
**Facepalm

@539. dmduncan -
@544. Disinvited -
you both make some good points. but there are successful hollywood “formulas” to follow. Star Trek itself pioneered one of them in the late 60′s as did Dick Donner in the late 70′s that are both still used to this day on just about every successful film. Originality is the variable, the more originality you can give the audience is the difference between smash hit and only moderate success.

@558. Jack – July 15, 2013
agreed, as many have cited perfect examples of lesser films with both big and small budgets. Watching Man of Steel today again i was just blown away by the flying sequences and on my way home wondered how it was possible that bryan singer with a larger budget in 2006 than Man of Steel’s could produce the most boring flying sequences for Superman. It’s just a creativity Zach Snyder’s team has that $30 Million more in budget couldn’t buy for singer’s superman returns.

562. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@559. Craiger – July 15, 2013
@560. Craiger – July 15, 2013

in fairness to bob and co. i don’t think that’s what they’ve said exactly or meant….dear god i hope not.

563. The Keeper - July 15, 2013

I don’t care if Abrams directs or not, I love these new actors in Star Trek’s most cherished and iconic characters.
I want to see more by them all.
But what we need now is better writers with more insight into the real realms of science fiction while still maintaining the excitement and pace of a modern day motion picture event.

The current writers need to be let go.
True they have a good understanding of the character interplay, but for overall original story telling they are extremely lacking, often one dimensional and very predictable. just look at the failures of some of the other projects they have been involved in.
they are not all that good and no studio in it’s right mind should be paying these guys to write and produce any thing.

The studio needs to fan out and search for story ideas by true science fiction writers just as the original series did.
Common Paramount, you know Trek’s history, that’s what they often did and more often then not some of Star Trek’s very best stories came from these sources!

For all that Star Trek Into Darkness was, I saw better story idea’s being pitched here by fans they what these guy came up with. Hell even I could have come up with something far more original and still make it exciting for a huge summer event film.

People do like to think you know, even at a summer pop corn movie, so stop going th standard “safe” route.
Step out side the box and break the old mold Hollywood has long relied on as Gospel for seccuss.

I sometimes get the feeling these guys went the Khan route not because it was the best way to go, not because it was an original story idea that could expand the character but merely for the fact the hard based fans said and pleaded not to go that direction.
And these guys basically said F-You, we are doing it and Abrams will direct it because he’s a Star Wars Fan at heart and doesn’t know any better then to NOT GO THE KHAN ROUTE!
Abrams will trust what we say because he doesn’t know any better and besides we’ll pitch the idea to him and get away with it.

I know that the failure writers are often here replying, but really, I don’t give a darn what you guys have to say.
They lied and cheated the fans both old and new with this Khan debacle.
I DO hope that some one from the studio is reading his.

564. Mitchell - July 15, 2013

@563. The Keeper – July 15, 2013
they did say there was a moment where they all said to JJ “hey we’re still doing that ‘thing’ we talked about right? we are still going to do it right?”

so you might have a point about just doing what they wanted to no matter what etc..

565. dmduncan - July 15, 2013

532. Craiger – July 15, 2013

I found this Mr. Plinkett reviews STID. Warning some bad language in the review. He basically say STID is just copying all other ideas from previous Trek films and series.

***

There’s a fine line between riffing off the past and ripping off the past.

Did they cross it?

I can’t say that. Except for the major issue I had with STID (which I’ve publicized enough to not need to repeat it all again), I thought it was an excellent movie.

But there is a line somewhere and it can be crossed if you like riffing too much.

566. Disinvited - July 15, 2013

#548. MJ (The Original). – July 15, 2013

As I vaguely recall having a feeling of something similar when exiting TMP for the umpteenth time and hearing Paramount’s rationalization for the reduced budget for TWOK, I can’t say your sentiment doesn’t resonate with me. And yet, neither can I deny that TWOK surprised me with how far Meyer was able to coax the fx to exceed my low expectations with the little he got.

Granted the Paramount of then that got the bug and redid TMP is the CBS of now that is carrying it on with its various series, but I often ponder what if nuParamount asked Meyer for the 50th to reedit TWOK with his original vision that had no “Remember.” scene and updated fx? But, I digress.

My point was it would be interesting test of our gut sentiments to see if nuParamount could update each of the old films a la CBS to the exact vision of the original artists’ conceptions without decreasing any of the marketability each still enjoys today.

As a practical matter, it is probably best left alone as they’d probably just inherit Lucasitis but nevertheless it is a very human thing to do, to ask, “What if?”

567. Curious Cadet - July 15, 2013

@528. TUP,
“I wouldn’t want a Latino or a black guy playing Kirk. Sorry, but Kirk is a white American.”

Kirk is envisioned as a boy who grew up in Iowa. That’s essentially retconed, but it has colored most people’s opinions about him.

But that’s about where it ends. Shatner was a Canadian. There is no America in the sense of the USA in the 23rd century as far as I can tell, so that nationality trait is out. Although, I don’t know what color and ethnicity have to do with nationality.

What’s left? Color.

You’re free to see Kirk any way you want to. However, I can think of a few black actors I would be happy to see play Kirk, and I think would do a fine job with the part. No Latinos come to mind immediately, but I’m sure they’re out there. Kirk shouldn’t have an accent. He’s definitely a small town North American kid, but that’s a character trait having nothing to do with skin color or ethnicity.

As long as they can act the part, and fit the characterization, Kirk can be played by any actor regardless of race, color or creed.

568. Disinvited - July 15, 2013

#561. Mitchell – July 15, 2013

If “the more originality you have” is key, it would seem that a sequel would ironically start out with one strike against it? Unless, I suppose, there is some way that we can view it as just another canvas of the same size, shape and background color as the original on which to construct an “original” work of art?

569. dmduncan - July 15, 2013

Originality? Like The Smurfs? That took in a worldwide of over $563 million.

Moon (2009), on the other hand, WAS rather more original. Worldwide it took in ALMOST $10 million.

570. Vultan - July 15, 2013

Geez, again with the Smurfs! I wasn’t aware that was in the same genre as Star Trek, but granted, with Abrams it’s hard to tell.

Anyway…

Inception made $800 million.
District 9 $200 million on a budget of $30 million.

Thank you very much.

571. Vultan - July 15, 2013

But by all means keep pushing for more Klingons. We’ve hardly seen them at all in the movies and know next to nothing about their culture. Yep. Should make for an extremely awesome, big, loud… modest success.

Trek on.

572. MikeMCP - July 15, 2013

@567

Yeah, okay.

573. dmduncan - July 15, 2013

Genre is irrelevant. If you’re looking for a cinematic version of a Coke classic-type recipe for success, there isn’t one.

And you can go stuff your sarcasm. Kirk and crew have been far more exhaustively done than Klingons, and yet here you are still unhappy that you didn’t get the movie based on almost 50 year old characters that you wanted.

At least I’m not being hypocritical or pretentious.

574. Crewman Darnell - July 15, 2013

In all fairness, there is some entertainment value in STID.
On a very superficial level.

575. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

“Some critics of military drones have called for a re-examination of how aerial robots are used in human conflicts. But it turns out that there’s actually another kind of military robot on the horizon that may be far more threatening in terms of future human-robot encounters: the Atlas humanoid robot.

Developed by Boston Dynamics for the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), the 6’2″, 330-pound Atlas is the most advanced robot created by the organization to date. Evoking images of James Cameron’s sci-fi human hunter known as the Terminator, the human-scale proportions of Atlas give it the appearance of a mechanism simply waiting for a coating of artificial skin to be layered on.” – By Adario Strange, PC MAGAZINE, “DARPA Unveils Atlas Humanoid Robot”, July 12, 2013

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2421687,00.asp

“People love the wizards in Harry Potter or ‘Lord of the Rings,’ but this is real. A new species, Robo sapiens, are emerging.” – Gary Bradski, a Silicon Valley artificial intelligence specialist & co-founder of Industrial Perception Inc.:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/science/modest-debut-of-atlas-may-foreshadow-age-of-robo-sapiens.html?_r=0

“US military’s BigDog robot learns to throw cinder blocks, grenades…” – By Sebastian Anthony on March 1, 2013, ExtremeTech:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/149732-us-militarys-bigdog-robot-learns-to-throw-cinder-blocks-grenades

576. Admiral_Bumblebee - July 16, 2013

I still think that a new movie would benefit enormously from a return of William Shatner als Prime Kirk and Patrick Stewart as Picard. Even Leonard Nimoy could return as Prime Spock again.

The mild success of the last movie showed that the way the movie was handled was not what the majority of the moviegoers wanted to see. The movie focused mainly on new folk – and it didn’t work that well. So maybe for the next movie they should take a look at the “older” fans and how better to lure them into the movie then by bringing back some old legends like Shatner, Nimoy and Stewart – and not just a cameo, they should have bigger roles.

I believe that if a new Bond-movie would be announced with Sean Connery in it, people would storm the cinemas. So this could also be the case with Star Trek.

Of course it would be quite difficult to bring them into the universe, especially Prime Kirk – but hey, this is science fiction, let your imaginations soar, everything is possible.
And if the story would be too large for one movie then make two – it is the 50th anniversary of Star Trek after all!

What I do not want to see is just another generic Star Trek movie with just another sci-fi plot and the same people we saw in the last two movies. Because that would just be another Star Trek movie which would not be fitting for a 50th anniversary.

577. Atrus86 - July 16, 2013

@3 Next movie should have the same crew. Changing crew, like something beyond TNG, will appeal to us hardcore Trek fans, BUT it would just confuse all those who only watched ST09 and STID..

Story should be kinda new, but some references and cameo appearances by old characters would not hurt..

578. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

FWIW

Despicable Minions Could Implode The Movie Industry, Says Spielberg, Lucas:

http://www.inquisitr.com/836271/despicable-minions-could-implode-the-movie-industry-says-spielberg-lucas/

579. Nachum - July 16, 2013

Here’s a great title for a movie: “Star Trek: Fifty”.

580. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

Movie actors that come to my mind as acknowledged big Trek fans are Hanks, Sorvino and Slater.

In talk show interviews, I’ve seen Tom demonstrate the depth of his fannish youth by acting out dialog of various episodes from rote.

Mira Sorvino has categorically made the statement that she’s solely a fan of the first series. I recall I found her choices of her favorite episodes fascinating but don’t recall them just this moment. She later said something about TNG being her new favorite because her father starred in an episode [I've had a nagging neuron trying to indicate her father appeared uncredited in the background of A PIECE OF THE ACTION but I have found no evidence to support it.]

Christian Slater had his shot, already, but perhaps he could do something interesting with a bigger part. Don’t have any sense that he would be a big movie draw, though.

In this blast from the past:

http://www.atariarchives.org/bcc2/pages/page162.gif

CREATIVE COMPUTING reports Candace Bergen spotted strolling the dealer tables of a 1976 Con as well as other Trek reporting of interest [such as:STAR TREK was 10 years ahead of its time].

In reflection, I’d have to agree that Hanks is potentially the strongest draw of the lot.

581. Randall Williams - July 16, 2013

*** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ***

I was at the Galway Film Festival and during the show with Quinto,
he stated that the next Trek film will begin filming in 2014 and also
stated that nothing is confirmed yet, but the Trek writing team are
‘busy as beavers’ working on the storyline.

582. PaulB - July 16, 2013

#576 – Admiral Bumblebee “I believe that if a new Bond-movie would be announced with Sean Connery in it, people would storm the cinemas.”
*****
You’re joking, right? Your whole post is a joke, right? I loathe STID, but only a fool would deny that it’s been more than a “mild” success. Just because it’s not successful with you and me doesn’t mean it didn’t work for most of the audience.

Nostalgia is a fine thing, but get real! Sean Connery is 82 YEARS OLD. Nobody would “storm” the theaters to see him play Bond at this point–at least, nobody sane. (Picture the scene of Q giving him gadgets:”Here, Bond, this bag of butterscotch candies is also a colostomy bag with a laser channel changer. Bond? BOND! Damn, forgot to give him his hearing aid…”)

The only people clamoring for the old cast to return are those who care more about sycophantic worship of Trek celebrities than good Star Trek stories. I consider Shatner a hero (for how he’s lived his life and career), but I do NOT want to see him play Kirk again. He’s a fine actor these days, but when it comes to playing Kirk, he is past his Prime.

BTW, I’ve been a Trekkie since the Animated Series was still first-run, which qualifies me as an “older fan” like you, so I’m not some young punk sneering at the old cast. I’m also not an old fool sneering at the new one.

583. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

#581. PaulB – July 16, 2013

When I was a young man of the desirable marketing demographic age, I very much enjoyed David Niven portraying a retired Bond in the spoof CASINO ROYALE and because of that, I’m not inclined to think less of Connery playing any sort of retired Bond. My only concern might be that he seems to lack the patience for modern film making and that may make it impossible for him to turn-in a worthy effort that would integrate well with the rest of any such film. But that would be a concern only and not something that would cause me to dismiss it out of hand as apparently such an idea does for you.

584. Classy M - July 16, 2013

At his press conference in Tokyo which kicked off the publicity for STID’s release in Japan, Benedict Cumberbatch commented that other cast members would be there in August. I’m not sure if there will be a formal premiere, or if they’ll just do TV / Radio appearances as Benedict did.

If the fans’ reaction to Benedict’s appearance is anything to go by, the film may do very well there. According to some sources, he’s currently more popular in Japan than either Tom Cruise or Johnny Depp and had a bigger turn-out at the airport than either.

The press conference was well attended and some members of the public were invited to attend. They were treated to some very impressive special effects and ST music for about half an hour before the conference began. An advert for the film aired immediately after Benedict’s appearance. (the entire event is available on YouTube).

Give that Japan is the last chance for STID to break some box office records (as happened in China, where BC is equally popular), I’m surprised the ST boards haven’t covered it.

585. PaulB - July 16, 2013

#582 – Disinvited

David Niven was great in that spoof. He was also only 57 years old when he played that retired Bond. If Connery were to play a retired bond in a comedy, maybe it could work, but suggesting that a serious Bond movie could be made now with Sean Connery as Bond is ludicrous.

Yes, I dismiss it out of hand. Especially the idea that people would “storm” theaters to see it.

Could he do a cameo as a very old Bond from later in his life? Maybe. But for him to carry the film AS Bond, as Bumblebee suggests, is impossible. And I LOVED Connery’s Bond! No other Bond compares, but he’s far too old, and out of the business, to be even remotely considered as a viable Bond these days.

Connery stopped acting years before he retired, so he’s not even a viable candidate as an actor, regardless of his age.

586. Cor-El - July 16, 2013

Bryan Singer for the next Star Trek please.

587. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

#584. PaulB – July 16, 2013

Well, I don’t believe Niven had to carry his whole film with its whacky 4 main vignettes connected with an afterthought thread? And I don’t think Bumblebee calling for bigger parts was asking for that either, he just wanted more serious roles for the old guard than “Remember me? I’m still alive.” So, I think we 3 may be closer to a consensus than it may have initially appeared.

And I’m pondering whether there’s a way to use vignettes in a non-spoofy way to do it?

588. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

#580. Randall Williams – July 16, 2013

I’ve seen enough of these type of posts around that I almost feel as if I’m being asked to participate in the old game panel show: TO TELL THE TRUTH:

Will the REAL attendee of “Galway Film Festival” please stand up?

589. crazydaystrom - July 16, 2013

563. The Keeper –
“I don’t care if Abrams directs or not, I love these new actors in Star Trek’s most cherished and iconic characters.
I want to see more by them all.
But what we need now is better writers with more insight into the real realms of science fiction while still maintaining the excitement and pace of a modern day motion picture event.”

My feelings EXACTLY, Keeper.

590. crazydaystrom - July 16, 2013

578. Nachum -
“Here’s a great title for a movie: “Star Trek: Fifty””

With JJ’s BR in control of things it’ll be more like “Star Trek: Five-Oh” with Kirk “surfing” on some kind of “space board” from the Enterprise to some situation or other. But at least the Robot will have been consistent.

591. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Oh, please, this is political correctness taken to the place of nonsense.

Just as Khan Noonien Singh is not a white guy from London, James T. Kirk is not a black or Latino or Asian guy.

Perhaps a hobby would be advised …

>567. Curious Cadet – July 15, 2013

As long as they can act the part, and fit the characterization, Kirk can be played by any actor regardless of race, color or creed.

592. Curious Cadet - July 16, 2013

@583. Classy M,
“Give that Japan is the last chance for STID to break some box office records (as happened in China, where BC is equally popular)”

Don’t get your hopes up. Japan brought in around 5 million for ST09, the most ANY returning foreign territory has brought in has been 3x the box office over ST09 (the Cumby crazy UK only brought in 4 million more). So I wouldn’t expect more than about 15 million best case scenario.

China is a whole different situation that cannot really be compared to any other country, with strict government regulation of the cinema, one in which low budget Chinese dramas routinely top the box office charts due to limited foreign screenings. And per capita, 56 million is not really such a large haul.

593. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

With JJ Abrams directing??

(The part you don’t mention.)

Impossible.

Quinto had a history of hyping the imminent beginning of STID production when it never happened.

And how many times did we hear that the writers were well along on the script for STID, which ended up playing like something pulled together very late?

>580. Randall Williams – July 16, 2013
*** IMPORTANT MESSAGE ***

I was at the Galway Film Festival and during the show with Quinto,
he stated that the next Trek film will begin filming in 2014 and also
stated that nothing is confirmed yet, but the Trek writing team are
‘busy as beavers’ working on the storyline.

594. MiuMiu - July 16, 2013

I was at a Q and A with Zachary Quinto on Friday here in Ireland and he said they are definitely doing a third film as contracted and he is very much looking forward to getting back, as is everyone else on the crew.
He also said that paramount are keen to start production by next year because they do not want to wait as long as they did for Into Darkness.
His own words :)

595. MiuMiu - July 16, 2013

Sorry @580 Randall Williamsy, only noticed your message there.
Zacahry was great wasn’t he?! Extremely funny and insightful Q and A.

596. Classy M - July 16, 2013

@590 Curious Cadet – I’m not expecting Japan’s figures to equal China’s, I’m just pointing out the Chinese box office showed a significant improvement over the 2009 film. It’s not unreasonable to expect the Japanese returns to also be increased. By what percentage, of course, remains to be seen.

597. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

BTW, my favorite Star Trek series, by far, aside from the genuflection to TOS, is Deep Space Nine.

And DS9 features Captain Sisko, a black man, heading up a very diverse command staff. If you want to see the difference between Avery Brooks and William Shatner, just check out The Captains … :)

If DS9 gets remade one day, Sisko cannot be played by a white guy, a Latino guy, or an Asian guy. He is an African American man.

These are established characters. They are what they are.

It’s a big universe. If we want leading characters of different ethnicity or gender, or even species, we can get new heroes and heroines.

>>567. Curious Cadet – July 15, 2013

As long as they can act the part, and fit the characterization, Kirk can be played by any actor regardless of race, color or creed.

598. Robman007 - July 16, 2013

@595….DS9 was one of the best Trek shows ever. Felt more like TOS then TNG did. This might just be me, but at times, TNG felt like, especially during the first few seasons, that it was doing everything in it’s power to distance itself from TOS and kinda “reboot” Star Trek….DS9 didn’t go overboard with the Political Correctness and even had conflict between principle cast members. Loved the TOS references abound.

I agree with your idea about actors and Kirk/Sisko, but I do think that most folks view on Khan and not being bothered by his change is the fact that he was played by a tanned Spanish/Mexican actor, not a real Indian actor…hell, Cumberpatch looked like Wrath of Khan KHAN just without the mullet and younger. With Khan and other characters, it can work. It worked fine having Sulu played by a Korean…not sure how it would work with a main cast member.

599. Robman007 - July 16, 2013

576. Admiral_Bumblebee …the film was not a “mild” success. It was a hit with critics and most fans outside of the few who will always have issues with any production of Trek. IT was not perfect, but far more then a mild success.

The issues with the film were more the 4 year wait combined with a rushed 3rd act of the film. The actors were great, the visuals were great and to an extent and minus the 3rd act, the story was pretty good. While controversial, Cumberpatch was pretty damn amazing as Khan/Harrison.

I’d love to see Shatner back as Kirk, especially in a scene with Nimoy, but that won’t happen. That bed was made the minute Shatner took a paycheck to have Kirk killed, and because someone made the idiotic decision not to cannonize novels (unlike Star Wars, which was brilliant), he remains dead

600. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Thanks re DS9 and TOS.

However, just as Kirk can’t be played by a person of color, and Sisko can’t be played by a white guy, “Khan” was a MASSIVE MISFIRE in STID, for the very same reasons.

You can pretend that is not the case, and there is a little coterie of insistent denialists about that is clearly dwarfed by most of the fandom here, but it is.

STID was spoiled by the “Khan” move, and by the cheap call-backs to a better Trek past.

That’s why the domestic audience for STID is so much less than for ST09, when this was supposed to be the big breakthrough picture for Paramount’s massively budgeted version of Trek.

>598. Robman007 – July 16, 2013

601. FroJoeKoolaid - July 16, 2013

Wait a fuckin second. Paramount has no idea the demographics of who saw this movie. I bought tickets online for 1 33 yo male, a 31 yo male, a 25 yo female, a 39 yo male, a 46 yo male, a 59 yo male and 8 yo female so they seriously know who went and saw this movie?

602. NoKhanPlease - July 16, 2013

Klingons as the next villain might be ok for an ordinary film, but not for a 50th anniversary. I’d like them to incorporate the surviving members of the original cast in some way. Instead of a villain, how about some sort of quest with a major payoff?

I doubt they’ll do that, but it would be nice.

603. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

How do we know how people vote?

>601. FroJoeKoolaid – July 16, 2013
Wait a fuckin second. Paramount has no idea the demographics of who saw this movie. I bought tickets online for 1 33 yo male, a 31 yo male, a 25 yo female, a 39 yo male, a 46 yo male, a 59 yo male and 8 yo female so they seriously know who went and saw this movie?

604. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

Actually, I think it would be unwise to do a “special” movie for the 50th anniversary.

There should be other events and specials to celebrate that, only one of which would be the next movie. There should be a TV retrospective to honor the 50th, timed with release of the movie.

The movie itself should not try to BE the special.

Although given the complete blunder it was not to shoot the Shatner scene for 2009 still leaves a void for Shatner to appear (provided that he fits the story), and that would be a special treat for the 50th ann. film without the film itself trying to be a special.

605. TUP - July 16, 2013

Im just not politically correct to the nth degree about this sort of thing.

Will Smith wouldnt play Lincoln because Lincoln was a white man. While Lincoln was a real person, once Kirk was established on screen, he was factually established as a white American.

Imagine if they re-cast Sisko using a white actor? It would be called blatent racism. It works both ways.

Now for sure, ethnicity and nationality are two different things. But Khan in STID sounded like a Brit. I was willing to buy it before I saw the movie given the involvement of the UK in India – it was believable that an Indian could actually be a Brit. And as much as I loved STID, it took me out of the moment somewhat.

And ofcourse the other issue is, this isnt a re-boot. Not like Will Smith in the Wild Wild West. These are the exact same characters that existed in Shatner’s universe, played by new actors due to age, death etc. If you made a movie about the life of Ricardo Montabaln, you would not cast BC as him.

As for Spock’s screaming of Khan, I loved it, especially how it was sound mixed. It was the transition from the emotionally draining “end” of Kirk into the rage-filled, exciting San Fran chase down. I got it. And I loved it.

606. TUP - July 16, 2013

On an unrelated note, since people are talking about Connery as Bond, I have two points to make.

in Skyfall, Connery as the old mentor (sorry cant remember details as I didnt like the film that much) would have been fantastic

And secondly, I once read a great idea to make all the different actors “canon”. The idea being that James Bond is not a name, its a title. So different Agents can eventually develop to the rank of James Bond.

Further to that, a tremendous concept I read was a Bond film opening up with the death of Connery or one of the other older guys, who are happily enjoying retirement somewhere. Someone has discovered the secret and is killing off the old Bonds. Maybe one of the old Bonds has turned.

Gives a chance for Brosnan to return also as well as cameo’s by all the old actors.

Wouldnt work for Star Trek but if I have one wish for the next film, it is that it’s an epic celebration of the entire history of Trek. I want Shatner, I want Nimoy, I want cameo’s galore. Call me crazy but its what I want. And I dare to strongly suspect that it would create immense buzz. If the movie is good, the money would be huge

607. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

I could see Kirk cast with a black actor if there’s a complete reboot of the franchise with a rejection of strict canon, ala BSG.

Michael Ealy would be good in the role (he’s the cop from Underworld Awakening, and Lucifer from the non-director’s cut version of Beyonce’s Halo video).

But it would probably be best to just do a different series with a new character and actor like that. Star Trek isn’t BSG and canon is so well established that it would be a kick in the nads to loyal fans to do that sort of thing. BSG post the reboot was never as iconic as Trek and it certainly didn’t have such a large loyal fan base sustaining it through so many series and movies, so I think it’s easier to do that sort of thing for something like BSG than TOS.

608. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Er, the original BSG was kind of a big blunderbuss of a joke, thrown up to capitalize on the excitement of Star Wars. I don’t know anyone who took it at all seriously, much less viewed it as anything akin to Star Trek.

There is no BSG character, even with the reboot, who has anywhere near the reach or resonance of James T. Kirk.

If you think people were angry about the “Khan” nonsense, just watch what would happen if anyone was idiotic enough to make Kirk a person of color or a woman.

>606. dmduncan – July 16, 2013
I could see Kirk cast with a black actor if there’s a complete reboot of the franchise with a rejection of strict canon, ala BSG.

609. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

607. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

Oh the original BSG had and still has its fans. Unbelievable as that may seem, they were out and bitching about Starbuck being rebooted as a woman, among other things.

But while the reboot might have cost itself old fans, it made a slew of new ones that it never had before. Including me.

If the situation ever comes to be that there just aren’t enough original diehard fans to upset anymore, a total reboot would not be troublesome to do at least from that concern.

610. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Yeah, I know about the Starbuck dust-up. A name that meant nothing in popular culture. Unlike Captain Kirk, who most everybody knows, like Indiana Jones and James Bond, who are also not going to be played by women or people of color.

I remember the original BSG and the original Starbuck. His character was white-bread fluff and the whole thing was a big so-what.

There is no real comparison to be made between Starbuck and Kirk. The original BSG stuff is pure niche, even more than the Iron Man comic books which had a (very) few upset about the Mandarin.

Your thought about original fans “dying off” and people then “not mindin” is mildly amusing, since you are forgetting that we have a new Captain Kirk who is not a woman or person of color. Who is also a white American male from the Midwest, etc.

So there are generations of fans being imbued with the identity of Captain Kirk.

Dicking around with the core identities of iconic characters, not minor characters in minor franchises, is just that.

Far better to think up new characters. And new stories for those characters.

611. I don't give a fuk - July 16, 2013

@609. Your thoughts on the Original BSG and Iron Man comic books are both wrong and laughable.

612. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

In the U.S. BSG was definitely a niche television phenomena, but as I recall the thing that made Lucas rise up and sue was Universal’s decision to hire someone who was then known as a crack movie editor (name escapes me) to distill their 3 hours of television footage into a foreign theatrical release for the rest of the world before the series aired.

I have no first hand knowledge of that movie as I have never managed to find it before they made changes for the U.S. theatrical release which seems to be the basis of all BSG TMs released since, after the show’s cancellation. But for what it is worth, I remember some U.S, television critic managing to get a gander (Canada?) and saying that the editing saved it as a motion picture. He expressed grave doubts that any network would let it air intact as he said it would be regarded as too intense for what the network would regard as a “kiddie” show. There was mention of an exposed female alien teet which I have a vague recollection of seeing somehow and a graphic beheading of Baltar. I believe the sensuality was heighten by some lovemaking scene.

Suffice it to say that the rest of the world most likely recalls the promise of their first exposure to BSG in 1978 quite differently than we citizens of the U.S.

And while it definitely was no Trek-like phenomenon, I can’t recall any other one-season SF series that managed to get two series and a theatrical movie spun out of it?

613. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

609: ‘Your thought about original fans “dying off” and people then “not mindin” is mildly amusing, since you are forgetting that we have a new Captain Kirk who is not a woman or person of color. Who is also a white American male from the Midwest, etc.”

We have a fiftieth anniversary coming up, and a lot of fans of the VERY original series way back in the 1960′s are still around and occasionally posting on this site, so those people aren’t all dead and buried yet, nor are those from the second and third waves of TOS fandom.

But I’M a fan of TOS and I don’t have a problem with a black Kirk so long as they reboot Star Trek completely to do it.

I know it’s fun to think that the people of 50 years from now will be as attached to a white Kirk as the people of today are, but I think Kirk’s race is about as precious and permanent as anything else in American culture.

And all you’ll be able to do when black Kirk appears, if you are still around, is to get out on your walker and complain to folks about how in your day the fans would never stand for such a thing by golly.

Sure, you can point to the supremacy of white Superman on TV and the cinema, but as a defense that example assumes the next 50 years of Star Trek will be identical not only to the past 50 of Star Trek, but to the past 75 years of Superman, who was born in 1938—the year of a very different American cultural topography. Also, there HAS been at least one black version of Superman that I know of, so not even that franchise is a good example.

Kirk MAY hold onto to his whiteness for the 100th anniversary, but it’s a plausible scenario that he may not. We are, after all, talking about the future which does not yet consist of hard facts, and so projections from hard facts—not hard facts themselves—are all we can produce.

614. Keachick - rose pinenut - July 16, 2013

#525 – “Good acting to me is not shouting or crying, but by actually moving an audience through sheer portrayal of character.”

Huh? Is that not what people do when they are upset (or overcome with joy) and/or need to be heard, in the case of shouting? Is not the capacity to cry or not, depending on circumstances, part of a person’s basic psycho-physical make up and therefore goes to portrayal of character? I would also think that it applies to someone who tends to shout when they get angry, frustrated, upset.
**************************************************************************************
Celebrating the 50th anniversary of Star Trek coming to people’s small screens could, and no doubt will, be done in a variety of ways. Releasing the third movie in this series of movies is one big way, but not the only way. I think that the next movie should keep to its alternate universe and have the Enterprise and its crew, lead by the inimitable Captain James T Kirk, go on a long, far away journey of exploration…

As far as the other Trek stars go, give them all one hell of a good party! At some point, the alternate crew/actors find a tiny door, which Scotty, being a miracle worker in both universe, is able to keep ajar just long enough so that Pine/Kirk and his people can come and be part of and enjoy all the festivities, before having to return to their own time. Perhaps this “door” is found in the astronomical anomalies that make up the space which the Menosian planetary system is a part of.

How about that? Works for me, at least…:)

615. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

#611. dmduncan – July 16, 2013

Once they get their foot in the door changing each eye’s color, can the hair followed by the skin be THAT far behind?

616. Curious Cadet - July 16, 2013

@611. dmduncan,
“And all you’ll be able to do when black Kirk appears, if you are still around, is to get out on your walker and complain to folks about how in your day the fans would never stand for such a thing by golly.”

Yup. I personally don’t think there’s any way audiences would accept a black Kirk today, any more than they would accept a black superman, and I hope that changes in 50 years. So commercially speaking, it would never happen today, even with a total reboot.

However it would have to be a total reboot, as was my intent. In which case, there’s absolutely no difference between a black boy growing up in Iowa and becoming a Starship captain, than there is a white one, except skin color.

However, the issue with Khan for me, and I’m not exactly sure I recall your position on it, is that Khan is not a total reboot, he’s part of the Prime universe from which Nimoy’s Spock hails. In that sense it’s like doing Donner’s Superman with a white Perry White, then recasting him with a black actor in Superman II. Moreover, it’s a failed opportunity to correct the racism of the 1960s and create a much more diverse cast for STID in the process, not to mention the color palette of Hollywood by giving a role conceived as an Indian to an actual person of that heritage. For anyone to even suggest what they did is no different than casting a black actor as Perry White in MOS, hasn’t been paying attention to the racial imbalance of films coming out of Hollywood over the last 100 years. There are more than enough white parts to go around, must we take away parts that specifiy persons of color too?

Before we get to that magical place 50 years from now where Kirk could be played by a black man, we first have to finish climbing to the mountaintop, and the only way to do that is start diversifying the images media projects to its audiences.

617. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Sorry, folks, I just find this talk of changing Kirk’s identity to be the ultimate in useless mental masturbation.

He’s an extremely well-established character in the extremely well-established Star Trek universe.

It’s very much like pretending that Lincoln was really a Chinese laborer who magically became president in the middle of World War I, or some such nonsense jabber.

On, and the “point” about Pine having different color eyes than Shatner as somehow illustrative of, well, anything but some poster’s penchant for trivia is just ridiculous.

I had no idea that Pine and Shatner have different color eyes until I saw it here. But I’m very well aware that the character they play is a white American man.

Kirk is who and what he is. Messing around with that is simply ludicrous.

618. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

James T. Kirk is from Scots Irish stock, in Middle America, as is obvious from his name and his appearance and his personal history.

We have met his father and his mother and his brother.

He is not African American, or Latino, or a gay Asian from Singapore, or whatever else occurs to whatever.

If you think people find the “Khan” nonsense infuriating, you have no idea what the reaction to messing with Kirk would and will be in perpetuity.

>615. Curious Cadet – July 16, 2013
@611. dmduncan,
“And all you’ll be able to do when black Kirk appears, if you are still around, is to get out on your walker and complain to folks about how in your day the fans would never stand for such a thing by golly.”

Yup. I personally don’t think there’s any way audiences would accept a black Kirk today, any more than they would accept a black superman, and I hope that changes in 50 years. So commercially speaking, it would never happen today, even with a total reboot.

However it would have to be a total reboot, as was my intent. In which case, there’s absolutely no difference between a black boy growing up in Iowa and becoming a Starship captain, than there is a white one, except skin color.

619. Red Dead Ryan - July 16, 2013

I agree that should a total reboot of TOS occur, James T. Kirk could easily be played by a man of color. Black, Asian, Indian or even Native American.

However, changing Kirk’s gender would be jumping the shark. No way in hell would you be able to change his gender without seriously altering his character traits. Otherwise, in the words of James Cameron, you’d wind up with a “man with tits”.

Although in a future reboot, there is no reason why either Chekov or Sulu can’t be gender-switched. Those two characters haven’t been nearly as established as Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty.

620. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Oh, and Curious Cadet, I have done a lot of work in Iowa. You’ve clearly never been there, or thought about the place, at all, aside from recognizing that Kirk is from Iowa.

IF there ever were such a boy, highly unlikely given the reality of Iowa, his experience would be wildly different.

> there’s absolutely no difference between a black boy growing up in Iowa and becoming a Starship captain, than there is a white one, except skin color.

621. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Getting in on the trolling action, Red? :)

Obviously, if Kirk were to be changed to almost anything besides what he is and ALWAYS will be, a white American man, his NAME would have to be changed.

Otherwise it would be just as ludicrous as having Benedict Cumberbatch play Khan Noonien Singh.

>618. Red Dead Ryan – July 16, 2013
I agree that should a total reboot of TOS occur, James T. Kirk could easily be played by a man of color. Black, Asian, Indian or even Native American.

622. Craiger - July 16, 2013

Katie Sackhoff as Captain Jamie Kirk.

623. Red Dead Ryan - July 16, 2013

Abraham Lincoln was a real person. James T. Kirk is not. Big difference.

Even with that said, there is nothing stopping a playwright from making Lincoln a black man in a stage play as part of a “what if” scenario or some sort of social/political commentary. I mean, people of color are often portraying characters in Shakespeare plays who were originally white and played by white males centuries ago. And we know that some of Shakespeare’s characters were based on real life figures, such as Julius Caesar.

624. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

614. Curious Cadet – July 16, 2013

Well I wouldn’t accept a black Kirk in the canon universe we have for the same reason I wouldn’t accept a white Khan in that same universe. Both their characters have been established as who and what they are.

But if you change the universe totally, like BSG did—and I don’t rule that out happening someday—then why not?

Of course I know the real answer to that question right now, but for the future?

625. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

In drama, no difference at all.

Because characters are established as what they are. Nowhere is this more true than in Star Trek.

What this is like is a high school drama workshop. “Okay, this time YOU play Juliet, and here is your wig, and we will have the janitor play Romeo, he can read the lines from the book …”

But this is all just a waste of time.

>620. Red Dead Ryan – July 16, 2013
Abraham Lincoln was a real person. James T. Kirk is not. Big difference.

626. Other Guy - July 16, 2013

How about giving the fans a shot.

I am sure there are quite a few Star Trek fans who could produce a Star Trek for under 10 miilion. Too bad most of us did not see MOON in 2009 along with Star Trek. Movie today may be more well produced.

Great movie. MOON (2009).

Moon’s social commentary is so much more sophisticated than any recent Star Trek story. Seriously this was great Science Fiction. And it also was produced for a mere $5 million. Bloated budgets and Star Trek’s recent tired political subtexts are not what your average moviegoer is going to appreciate time and again.

See MOON soon, if you have not already. And demand a sequel to this well acted and intelligent movie online somewhere. Or drp these guys a line and tell em you liked it, too.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Duncan-Jones/107736082587175

627. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica are TOTALLY different.

BSG was dead in the water, a forgotten niche franchise.

Maybe if Star Trek dies for decades, it could be rebooted in totally nonsensical fashion — because that is what changing Kirk is — but what happened to BSG, which NO ONE SERIOUS cared about, won’t happen to Trek.

Meanwhile, the new Star Trek movies continue to establish who Kirk is for generations ahead.

Not to mention that there is a ton of legacy programming built around Kirk the white male American.

It’s simply ludicrous to suggest otherwise and I can’t believe that anyone would entertain the idea for any purpose other than provoking.

>623. dmduncan – July 16, 2013
614. Curious Cadet – July 16, 2013

Well I wouldn’t accept a black Kirk in the canon universe we have for the same reason I wouldn’t accept a white Khan in that same universe. Both their characters have been established as who and what they are.

But if you change the universe totally, like BSG did—and I don’t rule that out happening someday—then why not?

628. Red Dead Ryan - July 16, 2013

#418.

“Obviously, if Kirk were to be changed to almost anything besides what he is and ALWAYS will be, a white American man, his NAME would have to be changed.”

I guess you’ve never heard of……Michael Jordan? An American basketball of African descent with a Caucasian first, middle and last name? Or how about Stephen A. Smith, an African-American sports commentator?

People of Asian descent born in North America tend to keep their ethnic last names, sometimes even their first names may not be English/Caucasian in origin. A lot of black people in the U.S and Canada, tend to have names like “Smith”, “Jones”, “Johnson”, etc. Ditto for aboriginal Canadians and Americans. I’ve known several First Nations people with the last names “Louie”, Charlie”, “Joe”, “Brown”, etc.

English/Caucasian names were often given to or forced upon aboriginal peoples during colonial times, specifically in the Americas as well as slaves from Africa.

Comparing that to making Khan a white guy is apples and oranges. The names “Khan” and “Singh” are not commonly given to Caucasian kids, if ever. “Khan” is Turkish/Persian/South Asian in origin. It is generally given within those countries and cultures, and Singh is a Sikh name. Those are names that white explorers/colonialists did not care for, as they were more interested in conquering other cultures and not assimilating into them.

629. Red Dead Ryan - July 16, 2013

And unlike Captain Sisko, James Kirk’s racial background has never been touched upon in official Trek canon. All we know is he’s from Iwoa, a state not exclusively white.

Sisko, on the other hand, referred to his racial heritage a few times during the run of DS9. “The Search, Pt. I” featured a scene in which Sisko and his son Jake hung an African artifact that they brought from Earth on the wall in their quarters.

630. Jonboc - July 16, 2013

I don’t get the whole notion of changing things around just to be clever or hip. If you change it to the degree that it isn’t recognizable, then what’s the point?? Call it Galactic Journey and make your own story with your own characters. But rebooting something, just so you can change it all around, turn male characters into females, white men into black men…I just don’t get it… never made sense to me.

631. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

Since consideration of the idea of a future black Kirk in some incarnation of Star Trek doesn’t bother me, I don’t find thinking it either ludicrous or provocative, and my discussion of the idea isn’t intend to provoke anyone else either.

But if “provoked” is what the discussion made me feel, I would find that an interesting thing to pay attention to about myself.

632. Red Dead Ryan - July 16, 2013

Iwoa=Iowa.

Damn typos.

633. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

That is completely ridiculous, sorry.

You guys either have far too much time on your hands or are simply trolling. (Also, you too know nothing about Iowa.)

If anyone has anything SERIOUS to say about the future of Star Trek heading into the 50th anniversary, which this nonsense jabber about changing Kirk is not, I wonder where the place for that might be.

>626. Red Dead Ryan – July 16, 2013
And unlike Captain Sisko, James Kirk’s racial background has never been touched upon in official Trek canon. All we know is he’s from Iwoa, a state not exclusively white.

634. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Better to pay attention to the component in your personality that entertains this stuff.

Frankly, I am sure you are simply trolling.

I’m moving on from this utter nonsense.

I’ve suggested that people consider and present serious ideas here about the 50th anniversary.

Changing Kirk is obviously nothing of the sort. Nor is most of the idle back and forth.

>630. dmduncan – July 16, 2013
Since consideration of the idea of a future black Kirk in some incarnation of Star Trek doesn’t bother me, I don’t find thinking it either ludicrous or provocative, and my discussion of the idea isn’t intend to provoke anyone else either.

But if “provoked” is what the discussion made me feel, I would find that an interesting thing to pay attention to about myself.

635. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Exactly.

It’s sheer nonsense.

A filmmaker would have to be a lunatic to consider changing Kirk for more than about 0.5 seconds.

>629. Jonboc – July 16, 2013
I don’t get the whole notion of changing things around just to be clever or hip. If you change it to the degree that it isn’t recognizable, then what’s the point?? Call it Galactic Journey and make your own story with your own characters. But rebooting something, just so you can change it all around, turn male characters into females, white men into black men…I just don’t get it… never made sense to me.

636. Keachick - July 16, 2013

What a 23rd century James T Kirk might look like depends on who his ancestors were. Clearly, one could assume that any ancestor who might live now would be white, most likely of UK ancestry (WASP?). However, that is only an assumption on our part. A lot can happen in 200+ years, especially when it comes to people having babies to someone who is not necessarily of their own colour/race, what with inter-marriage, migration, immigration.

The fact is that we don’t know that the Kirk we know may not have black, Asian, Arab… ancestry. It is all quite possible. The Kirk family of the prime universe were said to be Iowa farmers, but were all of James Kirk’s ancestors such people? Think about your own family backgrounds…

On the issue of names – many white people are giving their children what are traditionally Indian, Asian, African etc names because they like the sound of the name and/or the meaning.

So, in this alternate universe, we have a guy who has been bleached white because he has been in a dark cryotube for 200+ years who claims he is a Khan…get over it.

People – cut the crap. This is getting sooo old.

637. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Is this really a Star Trek board? Sometimes I have to ask myself that question, because …

Guess what? We already know that the 23rd century James T. Kirk looks like.

We just saw him in the damn movie.

>633. Keachick – July 16, 2013
What a 23rd century James T Kirk might look like depends on who his ancestors were. Clearly, one could assume that any ancestor who might live now would be white, most likely of UK ancestry (WASP?). However, that is only an assumption on our part. A lot can happen in 200+ years, especially when it comes to people having babies to someone who is not necessarily of their own colour/race, what with inter-marriage, migration, immigration.

638. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

631. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

Better to pay attention to the component in your personality that entertains this stuff.

***

I already do, which is why the idea doesn’t bother me.

639. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

Perhaps what is needed is a vision that hair and makeup will sufficiently advance in x years so that any actor could take on any role let alone the iconic Kirk one. Considering the 2009 effort won an Oscar for it, it seems reasonable to expect that advances are continuing to be made. The writers of Night Court meant it as a loving rib but for lack of a better name, the existence of the Shatner Turbo 2000 gives testament to the fact that the originating actor, himself, for a time, needed an assist in maintaining the proper Kirk aesthetic that concerns some so.

And let us not forget, Kirk was rendered in animated form in days past as well, and may be so rendered, yet again. Surely we can all agree that a black actor of sufficient talent could credibly give voice to an animated Kirk at the very least?

640. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Since you clearly don’t understand what I said to you, there is nothing to discuss.

>637. dmduncan – July 16, 2013
631. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

Better to pay attention to the component in your personality that entertains this stuff.

***

I already do, which is why the idea doesn’t bother me.

641. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

PARAMOUNT RENEWS DEAL WITH SKYDANCE, WITH NEXT TREK MOVIE “IN DEVELOPMENT”

http://www.deadline.com/2013/07/paramount-skydance-deal-extended-star-trek-world-war-z/

Paramount Extends Deal With David Ellison’s Skydance

By THE DEADLINE TEAM | Tuesday July 16, 2013 @ 11:00am PDT
Tags: David Ellison, Paramount Pictures, Skydance

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COMMENTS (11)
Paramount Pictures has extended its relationship with the studio’s most prolific co-financier/producer Skydance Productions, the film producer-financier run by David Ellison, will extend its relationship with the studio for another four years. That keeps in the fold the company that has become a steady producing and financing partner on the studio’s biggest-budget popcorn films. The extension will also encompass the production of at least two final installments of The Terminator, which Ellison and his sister Megan brought into Paramount just recently.

Skydance will make three to four event movies per year, and brings an annual production financing budget of between $200 million and $250 million per year. Ellison and his team are also involved in many of the projects as creative producers as well. Since the original deal was inked in 2010, Skydance has done what was hoped, which was to deliver commercial films that succeeded globally. Among the movies made by the partnership in that stretch were True Grit, Mission: Impossible – Ghost Protocol, Jack Reacher, G.I. Joe: Retaliation, Star Trek Into Darkness and most recently the Brad Pitt-starrer World War Z.Combined, those films have made more than $2.4 billion at the global box office. “Our partnership with David and Skydance has been tremendously successful,” said Paramount Pictures Chairman and CEO Brad Grey in a statement. “We are very pleased to extend our relationship and look forward to many more successful years ahead.”

As part of the agreement, Skydance will continue to have the option to co-finance and co-produce certain Paramount properties in which the studio is seeking a co-financing and creative partner. Paramount, in turn, will have first rights on all Skydance projects in development with the opportunity to co-finance and distribute movies that the company produces.

Currently, the partnership is working on Jack Ryan, the reboot of the Tom Clancy spy franchise starring Chris Pine, directed by Kenneth Branagh and set for a December 25 bow; and a new Terminator movie in partnership with Megan Ellison’s Annapurna Pictures, set for a June 2015 release. Also in development are new installments of the Mission: Impossible, G.I. Joe and Star Trek franchises as well as a long-in-the-works sequel to Top Gun.

642. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

637. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

Since you clearly don’t understand what I said to you, there is nothing to discuss.

***

Oh I don’t care. Addressing people’s emotional claims of what’s “ludicrous,” “nonsense,” and what will “ALWAYS” be the case is boring anyway. You’ve promised to move on twice, so stop talking and start doing.

I’ll continue the subject with anyone else who’s interested.

@636: A black man voicing a white animated character? Some people would complain they can hear his race.

643. Ahmed - July 16, 2013

@638. William Bradley

“Currently, the partnership is working on Jack Ryan, the reboot of the Tom Clancy spy franchise starring Chris Pine, directed by Kenneth Branagh and set for a December 25 bow; and a new Terminator movie in partnership with Megan Ellison’s Annapurna Pictures, set for a June 2015 release. Also in development are new installments of the Mission: Impossible, G.I. Joe and Star Trek franchises as well as a long-in-the-works sequel to Top Gun.”

At last, there are some movements. Hopefully we will have more news soon.
Thanks for the link.

OT: Top Gun sequel, really ???

644. Disinvited - July 16, 2013

#639. dmduncan – July 16, 2013

I am of a generation that remembers when people of all creeds mistakenly thought Wolfman Jack was black which is why such claims strike me as ludicrous as saying Anthony Garcia’s Spiderman sounds Australian. But I suppose you are right, there is someone somewhere that will.

645. Craiger - July 16, 2013

Ahmed – Yeh a Top Gun sequel. Last a I heard it was going to be about hot shot pilots that fly drones with Cruise as their instructor. Not sure if Kelly McGinnus was going to reprise her role.

646. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Spoken in genuine troll fashion … “I don’t care to understand what you are saying.”

Maybe you should move on. Having cornered the market on most nonsensical statements of the day.

>639. dmduncan – July 16, 2013
637. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

Since you clearly don’t understand what I said to you, there is nothing to discuss.

***

Oh I don’t care. Addressing people’s emotional claims of what’s “ludicrous,” “nonsense,” and what will “ALWAYS” be the case is boring anyway. You’ve promised to move on twice, so stop talking and start doing.

647. Ahmed - July 16, 2013

@ 642. Craiger – July 16, 2013

“Ahmed – Yeh a Top Gun sequel. Last a I heard it was going to be about hot shot pilots that fly drones with Cruise as their instructor. Not sure if Kelly McGinnus was going to reprise her role.”

I enjoyed Top Gun, but really it is just mind-boggling that Hollywood seem not able to come with original ideas anymore.

648. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Yep, Top Gun.

Maverick is an instructor now, and … I forget the rest of it. Tony Scott was working on it before he jumped off that bridge, and Cruise has apparently into it for a long time.

>642. Ahmed – July 16, 2013
@638. William Bradley

“Currently, the partnership is working on Jack Ryan, the reboot of the Tom Clancy spy franchise starring Chris Pine, directed by Kenneth Branagh and set for a December 25 bow; and a new Terminator movie in partnership with Megan Ellison’s Annapurna Pictures, set for a June 2015 release. Also in development are new installments of the Mission: Impossible, G.I. Joe and Star Trek franchises as well as a long-in-the-works sequel to Top Gun.”

At last, there are some movements. Hopefully we will have more news soon.
Thanks for the link.

OT: Top Gun sequel, really ???

649. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

I believe Craiger is kidding about the drone bit. And of course Kelly McG.

Mission Impossible is Cruise’s next big project.

>646. Ahmed – July 16, 2013
@ 642. Craiger – July 16, 2013

“Ahmed – Yeh a Top Gun sequel. Last a I heard it was going to be about hot shot pilots that fly drones with Cruise as their instructor. Not sure if Kelly McGinnus was going to reprise her role.”

I enjoyed Top Gun, but really it is just mind-boggling that Hollywood seem not able to come with original ideas anymore.

650. Tom - July 16, 2013

Hope they do get Shatner involved somehow. If they do I would also love for them to shoot the Shatner scene intended for 2009 and include it as an extra for the dvd/bluray release.

651. Ahmed - July 16, 2013

I’d prefer that Cruise finish MI 5 before he starts on Top Gun. And I guess they will need to come up with a subtitle for MI 5, otherwise people might think it is about the British intelligence agency MI 5 :)

652. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

How about this for the title of Cruise’s next Mission extravaganza?

MI5: Spooks.

That’s a little joke … :)

Who gets the reference?!

>648. Ahmed – July 16, 2013
I’d prefer that Cruise finish MI 5 before he starts on Top Gun. And I guess they will need to come up with a subtitle for MI 5, otherwise people might think it is about the British intelligence agency MI 5 :)

653. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

643. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

After telling me that you were through with the conversation (twice), now you’re upset that I’m not trying to bar your exit, whereupon you will surely re-ascend back to the heavens to be among Those Who Know Better—while calling me names to rationalize your choice to abandon the topic?

I think you are the actual troll, Mr. Bradley, a paranoid one who sees trolls everywhere that people disagree with you, and whose recent posts are not very interesting to me to read, mostly because you use words like “troll” and “ludicrous” and “nonsense” as reasons rather than as what they really are—the absence of reason.

Now, if you WANT to discuss it some more, even though you’ve promised unsuccessfully to quit the conversation twice, I’ll be magnanimous and hear what you have to say, but the first time you call me a “troll” or your defense becomes because the opposite of what you think is “nonsense” and one has to be “crazy” to propose it—or some other variety of name calling, direct or implied—then yes, the conversation has to be over because the one thing I am not willing to entertain past the end of this sentence is your vanity.

654. Ahmed - July 16, 2013

@ 649. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

“How about this for the title of Cruise’s next Mission extravaganza?

MI5: Spooks.”

lol, that was fun. I loved this British show, very well done & not your typical spy series. It was kinda dumb to change its name when they broadcast it in North America.

655. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

641. Disinvited – July 16, 2013

#639. dmduncan – July 16, 2013

I am of a generation that remembers when people of all creeds mistakenly thought Wolfman Jack was black which is why such claims strike me as ludicrous as saying Anthony Garcia’s Spiderman sounds Australian. But I suppose you are right, there is someone somewhere that will.

***

Wolfman Jack—American Graffiti, right? Yes, if you close your eyes it’s easy to imagine him as a black man.

Well, I was half joking. I’m sure some people would FEEL that way, but I also hope they’d be too embarrassed to actually say it out loud.

656. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Tap tap tap more unread c…

You get no response to your latest provocation because it’s simply unread.

653. dmduncan – July 16, 2013
643. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

After telling me that you were through with the conversation (twice), now you’re upset that I’m not trying to bar your exit, whereupon you will surely re-ascend back to the heavens to be among Those Who Know Better—while calling me names to rationalize your choice to abandon the topic?

657. William Bradley - July 16, 2013

Thanks. Wasn’t that a fabulous show? Kinda like the flip side of 24 (which also had some great moments, notwithstanding the obvious problems).

Crazy to change the title for the North American market out of PC fervor.

>654. Ahmed – July 16, 2013
@ 649. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

“How about this for the title of Cruise’s next Mission extravaganza?

MI5: Spooks.”

lol, that was fun. I loved this British show, very well done & not your typical spy series. It was kinda dumb to change its name when they broadcast it in North America.

658. Vultan - July 16, 2013

I heard somewhere that in the Top Gun program today if you get caught quoting a line from the movie by a superior officer you get a small fine.

Hopefully there’s no such policy at NASA for Trekkies. But then that would probably solve their funding problems.

;-)

659. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

656. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

Tap tap tap more unread c…

You get no response to your latest provocation because it’s simply unread.

***

He responds, claiming he isn’t responding.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you go all fetal position in a webforum argument.

660. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

Spooks = outstanding show.

Agreed!

661. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

DM Duncan versus William Bradley

Get me some popcorn!!! :-)

662. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

661. MJ (The Original). – July 16, 2013

You’re too late, MJ. He’s curled up and out of it now. He made the mistake of trying to cast me as a troll because I disagreed with him. It’s over.

663. MikeMCP - July 16, 2013

It’s amazing the degree to which so many people on this site are Abram’s apologists, so much so that they would willfully entertain the notion of a black Captain Kirk. How about a male Captain Janeway or a Chinese Captain Sisko? What a joke!

664. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

@662. Why not? These are imaginary characters…wake up dumbass, this isn’t real life — these are made up dramas.

nuBSG — who didn’ love the “new” Starbuck?

Please lose your old tired out thinking, dude. You are depressing me.

665. Red Dead Ryan - July 16, 2013

All,

Earlier I had mentioned that it would be possible and perfectly acceptable for a director to cast a black James Kirk in a future Trek reboot. This was in response to William Bradley’s claim that it cannot be done, that Kirk’s racial background is set in stone. I rebuffed that claim by saying that only his place of birth was established, and that nothing was established about his race, unlike that of Captain Sisko’s, which several DS9 episodes firmly established in canon of him being of African-American descent. One can change the race of Picard, Archer, Kirk and Janeway, but Sisko is firmly established as being black. William Bradley completely brushed off and belittled my arguments, and hypocritically labelling me, dmduncan, and others here of being trolls.

No, the only troll on this thread is William Bradley. I honestly thought he had changed his tone after his previous rantings, but we now have proof that he has resorted to his old antics.

666. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

For those who are unaware of or who are having trouble understanding the talk several of us were having, speculation formed about whether there would EVER in ANY incarnation of Star Trek—even 50 years from now—be a black man cast as Kirk.

Now, obviously if you follow canon you can’t do that. But that doesn’t answer the question for all time, because filmmakers of the future may have very different ideas about how to reboot the franchise, and may have very different and varying degrees of loyalty to canon, supported by a very different fanbase, such that we could eventually get a black Kirk in a different cultural climate, not unlike we got a woman cast as Starbuck for the rebooted BSG.

In other words, filmmakers 50 years from now may completely reboot the TOS universe, like BSG, in which case a black Kirk would be possible to see. While you can’t have a black Kirk in the continuity of the universe we are all familiar with, that is not to say that the universe of that continuity is itself inviolable and cannot be rebooted as was done for BSG.

Now all of this is admittedly SPECULATION; we’re just talking about it, and yet just the consideration of the IDEA was damaging some people’s calm.

And THAT I find revealing. Not that anyone is suggesting we’ll have a black Kirk in the third sequel set to follow the same continuity of the last two movies where a white blue-eyed guy was Kirk—which would be absurd—but the idea that there COULD EVER be a black actor cast as Kirk in a totally rebooted Star Trek universe is not out of the question, but imaginable given enough time and change in the society and fanbase, and yet some people are apparently unwilling even to talk about it as a possibility.

Welcome to the “progressive” world of Star Trek fans.

667. Vultan - July 16, 2013

Well, my comment disappeared for some reason, so here goes again.

What if Kirk were made gay? The reason I bring this up is Andrew Garfield recently said he’d be okay with playing Spiderman gay, and that sparked some debate.

Thoughts.

668. Vultan - July 16, 2013

And now it’s back again. Weird system this site.

669. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

Red Dead Ryan and DM Duncan,

I agree 100%

Canon is not “reality”. It’s a fracking imaginary history based on an imaginary drama. Of course it can be changed for any future reboot. Duh!

670. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

667. MJ (The Original). – July 16, 2013

Red Dead Ryan and DM Duncan,

I agree 100%

Canon is not “reality”. It’s a fracking imaginary history based on an imaginary drama. Of course it can be changed for any future reboot. Duh!

***

Well I thought that was obvious too. But some people have discovered a way to strongly disagree!

671. Admiral Archer's Prize Beagle - July 16, 2013

All, William Bradley thinks that just because he has identifed himself, that he can treat everyone else here like shit.

672. Vultan - July 16, 2013

Okay, I’ll try to phrase my question this way since I guess the g-word is getting my comments removed.

What if Kirk and Spock were more than friends? (Not that there’s anything wrong with it!)

Just wondering how far this changing characters thing could go with you all. Race is one thing… the other….

673. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

@669. Yea, they could theoretically do that. The could also theoretically make Kirk an Andorian.

But they won’t.

674. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

I do think a brief nod to a Sulu-Chekov relationship in the next movie would be forward thinking, and be in the spirit of GR’s desire for Trek IDIQ.

675. Vultan - July 16, 2013

#670

Hmm. Interesting you would equate that persuasion with being turned into an alien!

Not that I’m pushing for this particular change, mind you. Only wanted to point out that open-mindedness in people, including my own, has limits.

676. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

…but then again, and Uhura-Marcus relationship…with a special Playboy tie-in issue….

LOL…I am kidding!

677. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

@672. Nope, YOU equated that in your response to me.

678. Vultan - July 16, 2013

Okay. But read your comment again. It could come across that way.

679. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

And your are missing a key point. There is hardly anything in Kirks background and character makeup that would prevent him from being and African American from Iowa.

However, Kirk has always loved the ladies, and this is covered in so much of his character and history, so that is different.

Now, there is not much history of Sulu and Chekov in this vain — so they are a good fit in my opinion to show to everyone that Trek is now being inclusive to all preferences.

680. Vultan - July 16, 2013

I was really just kidding by making that connection. No accusation intended.

681. Vultan - July 16, 2013

Kirk definitely loves the ladies. But with Spock… huh, well, much has been written of it. And… I’ll just leave it at that.

682. Vultan - July 16, 2013

Sulu and Chekov? Well, I guess when you’ve shared a console long enough…

;-D

683. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

@678. Yea, a lot of fat ladies in the 1980′s loved those stories. I remember being at a convention, and seeing a table with very graphic K/S fan books, with actual illustrations in them that you had to see to believe. :-))

Fascinating!

684. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

@677. No offense taken. No problem.

685. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

669. Vultan – July 16, 2013

Good question, and I’ll be honest in my answer: That Star Trek I won’t be a fan of. It may eventually happen, and it may have its fans if it ever does, but I won’t be among them. But you won’t find me shaking my cane at the marquis, if I’m still around, either. And talking about the possibility now isn’t pissing me off.

I also didn’t see Brokeback Mountain.

686. Vultan - July 16, 2013

Ha, yeah, fascinating! That’s one way of putting it.

687. Vultan - July 16, 2013

#684

Yeah, frankly I wouldn’t want to see it either. And yeah, I didn’t see Brokeback Mountain either. Not that I’m actively antigay or anything. I think there’s a certain comfort level each person has with their fiction, and that stretches it a bit too far for me.

688. Vultan - July 16, 2013

I saw a making of Planet of the Apes documentary awhile back. Kim Hunter said when they’d break for lunch, she noticed each ape actor would sit with those like them—the chimps with the chimps, the gorillas with the gorillas and so on.

They weren’t required to do that. It just came to them naturally!

689. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

Where are Zena and Gabrielle when you need em?

;-)

690. Vultan - July 16, 2013

#682

No, I wouldn’t want to see that either. People want to see those like them in their fiction. The point I was trying to make at #684. I had another comment before that that was deleted for some reason. Irritating.

Are the numbers going crazy for anyone else?

691. Vultan - July 16, 2013

Oh well. I give up. They really need to upgrade the comments section.
Anyway, nice chatting with you guys. Fun discussion.

692. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

Yea Vultan, DM,

Good discussion!

693. MikeMCP - July 16, 2013

@663

Yes, of course fiction is imaginary, that point is self-evident. But what’s the value in creating anything, especially with established continuity like Star Trek or Star Wars, if anyone can come along and just change it because they want to. Why would anyone want to become emotionally invested in a character if they knew that said character could have his or her CHARACTER modified in perpetutity. Suspended disbelief only works to a certain extent. Your argument is not cogent, sorry.

694. MJ (The Original). - July 16, 2013

@689

Here’s 10 major movies with major race and sex switches from the original:

West Side Story

The Manchurian Candidate

The Wild. Wild West

The Thing (2011)

The Wiz

Invasion

The Karate Kid

Battlestar Galactica

I am Legend.

The Wicker Man

ENOUGH SAID! YOU NEED TO EXPAND YOUR LIMITED WAY OF THINKING.

695. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

689. MikeMCP – July 16, 2013

But what’s the value in creating anything, especially with established continuity like Star Trek or Star Wars, if anyone can come along and just change it because they want to.

***

To renew it for a different time and sensibility, and just for the sheer fun of making something old new again, THAT’S the value to those who would do it and who would watch the result. You won’t live forever, and a generation will come to whom Star Trek is as hallowed as the original Flash Gordon is to us today. Hard to believe, I know, but time is very deep, and entire civilizations can be lost in it.

696. dmduncan - July 16, 2013

690. MJ (The Original). – July 16, 2013

Hey, good list. I have my iPad on an articulating arm mounted on the wall above my pillow, so I’m going there right now to watch Carpenter’s version of The Thing!

Good discussion, MJ, Vultan. Good night!

697. Admiral_Bumblebee - July 16, 2013

#582
No I’m not joking.
Imagine a Bond-film in which an old James Bond played by Sean Connery remembers one of his adventures. Connery would be some kind of narrator. This way he could play Bond and I believe that a marketing slogan like “Sean Connery returns as James Bond” would make the fans freak out.

I would love to see Shatner playing Kirk one last time. Yes he is old so what? My dad is old, too and I still consider him a hero.

Just another generic Star Trek movie like the last too would just not fit for a 50th anniversary. It would just be more of the same… Do people really want to see that? Again? And I am saying this as a Star Trek fan. Imagine how bored the average movie-goer would be by “Just another Star Trek movie”.
Bring something special, something bold, something great and unique. Bring back the old cast(s).

698. MikeMCP - July 16, 2013

@690 and 691

Whitewashing! I suppose it’s not “hip” anymore to have an darker skinned actor play an Indian named Khan Noonien SINGH. .

Your reasoning might be valid if the production team hadn’t already stated- quite unequivocally- that Roddenberry’s universe remains intact up to the point of incursion. If the writers want to reboot the series, then have the balls to just go ahead and admit you’re doing so, but don’t try to increase box office numbers by luring in the fans of old by promising continuity, then, not delivering. I say this as a 29 y.o. btw. Despite what you may want to believe, Paramount still needs established fans to move forward with Star Trek as much as they need to generate new ones, so don’t alienate the old ones with this blatant obfuscation. It’s disrespectful. And yes, I know it sounds like I’m going overboard, because it’s only a movie. But you know what, for many people Star Trek has helped shaped them in a very personal way, myself included. Much of the meaning layered in Star Trek has informed everything from my politics to my outlook on my place in society as a minority. So yes, I take my Star Trek seriously, and I’m not ashamed to admit it. I for one can promise you, I wont be paying to see another Star Trek film with this production team in charge. I’ll vote with my pocketbook. I don’t have to purchases DVD’s, collectibles, or anything else related to Abram’s Star Trek if they’re going to be so disrespectful of us originalists. I know a lot of fans who feel the exact same way as I do and I dare suggest you’re already seeing this reflected in STID’s mediocre box office performance thus far.

699. MJ (The Original). - July 17, 2013

Clever, the way you completely changed the topic there.

You might consider a career in politics.

700. Disinvited - July 17, 2013

“There are two rules in life:

Rule No. 1: Don’t sweat the small stuff.

Rule No. 2: Everything is small stuff.”

Finn Taylor, American film writer and director

701. Jemini - July 17, 2013

for the ones that have a thing for online polls
The spock/uhura kiss from stid got voted as the second most memorable movie kiss of summer 2013

In celebration of International Kissing Day, online dating site Zoosk.com surveyed 3,500 singles to reveal the most memorable on-screen kisses this summer.
read the article over: http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1006371/most-memorable-movie-kisses-of-summer-2013

702. VulcanFilmCritic - July 17, 2013

Let’s go back to the Red Forest!
It’s an intriguing looking place with an interesting population. Maybe those chalky-faced natives have some interesting powers. After all, why introduce them in the first place? Just so that you can have an excuse for an action sequence where McCoy and Kirk end up jumping of a cliff? Lame.
If you are going to reintroduce the Klingons, why not do it in THAT place? It’s easy to have a space opera on a starship with all of that hardware and stuff. But boring. Been there. Done that…since “Star Wars.”
As others have noted years ago, it might be fun having a battle with Klingons where there is NO real technology. In a primitive place. We speculated years ago on what the Klingons would look like without their clothes and body armor on. Well, show us.
I guess the scenario might seem like “Errand of Mercy,” of “Mirror, mirror” at first: Primitive people sitting on a load of dilithium, blah, blah, blah, but now that they have seen the Enterprise, what effect is it going to have on their culture?What IS the effect of violating the Prime Directive anyway?
If Paramount wants to save some money, then give us a good story with some real peril. Fighting Klingons mano a mano is much more appealing than just blasting them.
Costs less than all that CGI stuff as well.

703. Mitchell - July 17, 2013

@606. TUP -

Sam Mendes and Barbara Broccoli wanted Sean for that role but decided it was not right to over shadow Connery or current Bond Daniel Craig so it quickly went to Albert Finney. Connery has said he would have declined. he has officially retired from acting thus also declined the invite to the Academy Awards for the Bond 50 tribute, Pierce Brosnon took note and then dropped out as well. the others followed.

They’ve also mentioned they decided it was not time to declare the Bond’s as carrying on a title and a legacy rather than being one extraordinary man. once they cross that bridge there’s no coming back and i agree with their decision.

@645. Craiger-
kelly mcgillis is coming back as the aircraft carrier. val kilmer will be playing the new super carrier, it’s a lot wider than the original.

704. Keachick - rose pinenut - July 17, 2013

Some of these numbers are askew.

#637 William Bradley – Yes, of course, we all know what the alternate universe young James Kirk looks like – a same race variation on the prime Shatner/Kirk. However, that was not the issue. It was about what another future Kirk may look like, ie could he have darker skin, or maybe more Asian or more African features or could he identify himself with the Latino race and culture? You know, just exploring probabilities and possibilities…

Given that we only know that both his parents were white in this alternate universe and not much more than that, it is also possible that another version might be born somewhere with very similar personality and intelligence but looks a bit different – darker skinned perhaps – than the two Kirks we have seen so far. Yet it is entirely possible that all three Kirks could have the same ancestry, if it were known. This would be no more “black-washing” Kirk than Harrison/Khan being “white-washed” since this alternate Khan’s ancestry has not been divulged, only one name.

FWIW – I cannot see Kirk ever being anything other than white, but it is interesting to explore various ideas.

705. Mitchell - July 17, 2013

@667. Vultan -
actually i believe he floated the idea of Mary Jane being a man to entice Peter Parker into exploring his sexuality…

to which Amazing Spiderman Director Marc Webb said “are you high?” BWUAHAHAHA

@672. Vultan -
dude they practically are in STID. they only thing missing was lady gaga’s “bad romance” playing over the sound track.

@676. MJ (The Original).
Zoe Saldana and Peter Weller? is that legal?

706. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - July 17, 2013

@705. Mitchell

I’m pretty sure MJ (@676) was referring to Saldana and Eve…

707. Keachick - rose pinenut - July 17, 2013

#702 – “Primitive people sitting on a load of dilithium, blah, blah, blah, but now that they have seen the Enterprise, what effect is it going to have on their culture?What IS the effect of violating the Prime Directive anyway?”

I think that the effect of violating the Prime Directive in the case of the Nibiru would be minimal, especially if Starfleet simply stayed away. The sight and story of this great vessel emerging out of the ocean would become the stuff of myth and legend. No doubt that would be the directive.

However, if the Enterprise managed to discover this world, how long will it be before others also discover it?

If Nibiru did have large deposits of precious minerals like dilithium, then the Nibiruns would soon be seeing other kinds of people and vessels, like the Klingons, the Romulans, the Andorians and other races who are very likely keen to exploit the resources of the planet. There is nothing to stop other races who do not belong to the UFP and Starfleet from exploiting, plundering, interfering with the natural development of a people such as the Nibiru who may not be able to defend themselves. Does upholding the Prime Directive mean no interference whatsoever? Could Starfleet “interference” precipitate a battle?

Did Captain Kirk lose his rank because he violated the Prime Directive or because he lied by omission about it in his report to Starfleet? What was Starfleet more bothered with in his actions – violating the Prime Directive or lying about it? I am not sure that was made all that clear in the film. As for me, I would be more concerned about the lying. Kirk made his decision to act as he did at Nibiru (with Spock’s partial consent). His fault was not to take responsibility and stand up for himself and the decisions he made – out in the field.

708. The Keeper - July 17, 2013

Keep in mind that only one isolated tribe of Nibriu’s saw the Enterprise rising out of the water.
This might briefly interrupt their religion for this group but the rest of the peoples that are scattered around the planet would still be practicing their original religious beliefs, having never seen this event.
While they might one day all hear about this great thing rising out of the water and stopping a volcano by then it would be more myth then any thing else.
More over, by the time the Nibriu’s develop into a space fairing race (assuming they make it that far)
the image of the drawing of Enterprise would be unrecognizable to any one..considering that the Federation may not even exist at that point in the distant future.

709. Mr. Anonymous - July 17, 2013

Please no more Donald Rumsfeld quotes. =P

710. T'Cal - July 17, 2013

I hope that Paramount does something classy and honorable for the 50th anniversary. While a documentary could be interesting for laymen, it would likely just rehash what diehard fans already know. I would love a 10-hour miniseries set in the Next Gen era including some TNG, DS9, VOY, and New Frontier characters that would play a couple hours each night for a week and then be replayed in various time slots on SyFy or AMC.

711. scutt III - July 17, 2013

well i liked the new movie .. much better than the fist one ,the chemistry of the crew is here again and khan is very well played…the story is well crafted and i for the first time in years im positive for the future of the franchise….
for me the logical step is to continue with the next movie and the 4th as Pine said to a reporter,,but then i think that this crew wont make it to tv due to sallary costs etc…in STID the actors played the characters much better for example scotty or sulu …maybe a series with captain sulu would be the answer to our problem…when i saw sulu in the command chair i thought that that was a hint….
and that for a guy who cant change the original crew with nothing…

712. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Mostly failures.

NONE as established as Star Trek.

Silly game over.

>694. MJ (The Original). – July 16, 2013
@689

Here’s 10 major movies with major race and sex switches from the original:

713. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Yawn.

>659. dmduncan – July 16, 2013
656. William Bradley – July 16, 2013

Tap tap tap more unread c…

You get no response to your latest provocation because it’s simply unread.

***

He responds, claiming he isn’t responding.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you go all fetal position in a webforum argument.

714. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

I would have to think for awhile to come up with a more pointless topic than changing James T. Kirk, of all Star Trek characters, to a person of color or a woman.

No filmmaker would do that.

It would literally be deranged.

And yada yada in the far future, he is already well established. We know what he looks like in the 23rd century. He is not a shape shifter.

If people want different heroes and heroines, make them.

There really is nothing more to say about the future of Star Trek than this??!!

This absurdity which no one here will ever see happen??

Impossible to believe.

>704. Keachick – rose pinenut – July 17, 2013
Some of these numbers are askew.

#637 William Bradley – Yes, of course, we all know what the alternate universe young James Kirk looks like – a same race variation on the prime Shatner/Kirk. However, that was not the issue. It was about what another future Kirk may look like, ie could he have darker skin, or maybe more Asian or more African features or could he identify himself with the Latino race and culture? You know, just exploring probabilities and possibilities…

715. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

What should the fans participate in?

What sort of events should be held?

What sort of media products besides an obvious documentary should be produced?

Assuming that the main event will NOT be a new TV series but the 50th anniversary movie itself, a movie which is still only listed as “in development” — along with the Top Gun sequel! — by Paramount as it moves forward on other projects.

>710. T’Cal – July 17, 2013
I hope that Paramount does something classy and honorable for the 50th anniversary. While a documentary could be interesting for laymen, it would likely just rehash what diehard fans already know. I would love a 10-hour miniseries set in the Next Gen era including some TNG, DS9, VOY, and New Frontier characters that would play a couple hours each night for a week and then be replayed in various time slots on SyFy or AMC.

716. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

A show of some subtlety and sophistication, to be sure …

>660. MJ (The Original). – July 16, 2013
Spooks = outstanding show.

Agreed!

717. Ahmed - July 17, 2013

@ 712. William Bradley – July 17, 2013

“Mostly failures.
NONE as established as Star Trek.”

Agree, all these were big failures except Battlestar Galactica. I wonder if that has anything to do with the change in the gender!

In any case, I don’t want that to happen to Star Trek. Lets the writers focus on coming up with good stories & not mess up with the basic foundation.

718. MJ (The Original). - July 17, 2013

@712 “Mostly failures. NONE as established as Star Trek. Silly game over.”

West Side Story = Shakespeares Romeo and Juliet; year established: 1567 about 400 years before Star Trek and is known word-wide more than Star Trek is; won 10 acedemy awards, second highest grossing movie of 1961.

719. Garak's Pride - July 17, 2013

Well, I agree with Orignal MJ. William Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet is certainly more established than Star Trek. And it’s not even close.

720. Aurore - July 17, 2013

“….No filmmaker would do that.
It would literally be deranged….”
________

:))

Don’t get me wrong ; I very much like my James Tiberius Kirk the way he looks, right now. I love him.

However, in the distant future, filmmakers could choose to cast a black man in the role…If, for whatever reason, they really wanted to, who could stop them?

…And, who knows, maybe then there would be another first ; an Indian Khan Noonien Singh. At last.

No more Hispanic actor wearing brown make-up, no Hispanic actors *without* make-up considered for the role…an Indian/South Asian Khan.

Even if it is only 50 or 150 years from now, and, even if I am not a huge fan of the character, I still can dream of that type of diversity in a Star Trek movie…can I?

:)

721. Race is just a label, nothing more - July 17, 2013

@694. Do not forget Daredevil, where the white character of Wilson Fisk aka Kingpin was played by Michael Clarke Duncan. Or this years Man of Steel where the white character of Daily Planet Editor Perry White is played by Laurence Fishbourne.

Perry White has been around longer than James Kirk, Perry appeared the first time in November of 1940, 26 years before Kirk, while Kingpin appeared for the first time in 1967, making him at least as well established as Kirk.

Spider-Man himself has recently become a Hispanic, Spider-Man appeared for the first time in 1962, also predating Kirk.

722. MJ (The Original). - July 17, 2013

People here need to “get real” when looking at the world. We are not so far away from the lily white-male 1960′s now for it to seem likely that they would make these kind of changes. But yet, even this makeup of casts is not very viable in terms of the likely races from earth in a spaceship 250 years from now.

But, taking this further if Star Trek is completely rebooted 50 years from you, you can bet that you are going to get a cast that looks more like a future amalgamation of races that really looks like and international presences of Earth in space, and more female officers as well. And as a result of this, don’t be surprised if Kirk is not lily white anymore.

Don’t worry William, you probably will be dead by then, and so your Patrician family sensibilities won’t be threatened.

723. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Don’t worry, when you talk about stuff “happening” a hundred years from now, it is as meaningless as it gets.

Pretending that a white character magically becomes black is mere play-acting.

Meanwhile, James T. Kirk is extremely well established, no serious filmmaker would think for more than 0.5 seconds about changing him, and the real life of the real Star Trek moves on completely separately from this pointless discussion.

724. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

So in your fake analogy, Star Trek would then become Galactic Journey.

In other words, NOT Star Trek.

rotfl

>718. MJ (The Original). – July 17, 2013
@712 “Mostly failures. NONE as established as Star Trek. Silly game over.”

West Side Story = Shakespeares Romeo and Juliet; year established: 1567 about 400 years before Star Trek and is known word-wide more than Star Trek is; won 10 acedemy awards, second highest grossing movie of 1961.

725. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Don’t worry, no one serious is going to try to make James T. Kirk a Korean lesbian.

I had thought that some here were just stuck on denying the problems of STID.

The issue seems to go deeper than that.

>717. Ahmed – July 17, 2013
@ 712. William Bradley – July 17, 2013

“Mostly failures.
NONE as established as Star Trek.”

Agree, all these were big failures except Battlestar Galactica. I wonder if that has anything to do with the change in the gender!

In any case, I don’t want that to happen to Star Trek. Lets the writers focus on coming up with good stories & not mess up with the basic foundation.

726. Disinvited - July 17, 2013

I would think the most obvious SF franchise that gives proof to the lie that a lead must maintain a fixed set of physical characteristics – other than resembling a human male but having an episode hint that may not be a limiting factor as his clone was female – that would spring to mind is one that the Motely Fool says bests Trek and SW:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/06/30/introducing-the-sci-fi-franchise-that-beats-star-w.aspx

727. Craiger - July 17, 2013

I wasn’t kidding about drones in Top Gun 2. That was the last story idea I read about unless its changed. Val Kilmer wants to be in it.

728. MJ (The Original). - July 17, 2013

@722 “Don’t worry, when you talk about stuff “happening” a hundred years from now, it is as meaningless as it gets.”

Exactly. You just “broke the code,” William. Now you get it!

729. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

721. MJ (The Original). – July 17, 2013

Don’t worry William, you probably will be dead by then, and so your Patrician family sensibilities won’t be threatened.

***

Exactly. But that’s not to imply that his xenophobic opinion can be taken seriously right now, however.

730. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

I would think you would recognize that Doctor Who is not Star Trek.

As a longtime Whovian, I also note the obvious, that every Doctor — there’ve been ELEVEN so far, along with a semi-defrocked twelfth — has been a white male Brit.

>724. Disinvited – July 17, 2013
I would think the most obvious SF franchise that gives proof to the lie that a lead must maintain a fixed set of physical characteristics – other than resembling a human male but having an episode hint that may not be a limiting factor as his clone was female – that would spring to mind is one that the Motely Fool says bests Trek and SW:

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/06/30/introducing-the-sci-fi-franchise-that-beats-star-w.aspx

731. Marja - July 17, 2013

666, ,dmduncan Bringing race into a discussion – even a hypothetical one – can be very … enlightening on this board. Yes, even here. I have been amazed/chagrined at some internet users’ views on the recent trial verdict re: Robert Zimmerman in the state of Florida. Alas, race is still an incredibly divisive issue in the US.

Yet, to be fair, I suppose my own “limited views” regarding homos*xuality between Kirk and Spock would strike some as homophobic, while I assure them that *I* believe their relationship is one of brotherhood, not s*xually oriented, canonically established, their views of canon vary from mine. I am not a homophobe (Zachary Quinto is my favorite actor and I was delighted when he “came out” – but as he does not make an issue of playing a heterosexual Spock, I feel the question of K/S is moot). So I suppose some folks feel Kirk’s race is also a matter of canon, though that is never *specifically stated*. I suppose K/S adherents believe the same about their view of “canon.”

In future who knows how fans will regard the matters of race and sexuality; these views may change vastly when us old “dinosaurs/original fans” die out …

679 MJ, I could get behind a Sulu/Chekov relationship. As you say not much background has been established (except in TOS, Chekov in “The Apple”) for either character.

681, Vultan, As for Spock’s s*xual orientation, I think that was pretty clearly established in ST2009.

683 MJ, the fact that ostensibly heterosexual women have written these stories has always puzzled me, but some scholarly folk put that down to the idea that there are “no strong female role models” in Star Trek, so in order identify with strong characters in a sexual pairing, the women make the pairing one between Kirk and Spock.
689 Mike mcp, these characters can be “re-booted” to suit the sensibilities and demographics of future moviegoers. Look at the problems some fans had with Spock’s behavior in STiD – while I’m comfortable attributing that to PTSD [which seems perfectly obvious to *me*], other fans objected that he was violating his Vulcan “nature” of “emotionlessness” – this despite Sarek’s statement to Spock in the first movie that “emotions run deep within our [Vulcan] race.”

707 Rose, Iike you I think Starfleet’s condemnation of Kirk’s actions was because of both, his actions and then his coverup of those actions. Pike made clear when he dressed down Kirk that “I wouldn’t have risked my First Officer’s life in the first place!” and also addressed similar non-interference” remarks to Spock. TOS Kirk often said, “I take full responsibility” re: his actions and I imagine he made full reports to SFHQ. The coverup more than anything was in Command’s eyes probably an indicator of Kirk’s unpreparedness for command of a starship. … and there were regulations to hew to as well. …. I agree with you on the planetary civilization question. I think exposure to the Enterprise would have transmuted into a distant legend of a giant beast rising from the waves … whether faith in a giant benevolent beast would have spread planetwide is a good question but with the isolation of the various cultures [no radios yet] likely to exist, it probably would have been a localized belief of the mountain folk.

732. star trackie - July 17, 2013

“But what’s the value in creating anything, especially with established continuity like Star Trek or Star Wars, if anyone can come along and just change it because they want to.

***

To renew it for a different time and sensibility, and just for the sheer fun of making something old new again, THAT’S the value to those who would do it and who would watch the result. ”

OK, suppose we have a world where chocolate chip cookies aren’t selling or some new generation has decided that chocolate is too harmful, and they replace the chocolate chips with peppermint pieces, the new favorite candy of this fictional “chocolate-hating” generation, in order to generate interest in this time-honored treat. They also added a lemon glaze because someone thought it would be a neat twist. And they still call it a Chocolate Chip cookie.

Sure. Makes perfect sense- to someone. But not me!

733. Vultan - July 17, 2013

#721

I agree. So… why couldn’t we have Khan played by a person of color again, preferably an Indian actor this time around to make it more authentic? Hey, I’m sure there are plenty of non-lily white actors who’d love a good old tragic villain role.

Seems an odd bit of political correctness to me. They don’t want to offend people of color by having one play the baddie, so they cast a white person instead. Okay. Does anyone else see the irony here? What do we call this? Retrogressive progressive casting?

734. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

That was short enough for me to read.

And to note that you don’t know what “xenophobic” means.

Truly unbelievable stuff, sport. Especially on a Star Trek board, of all places.

rotfl

That is all.

>728. dmduncan – July 17, 2013
721. MJ (The Original). – July 17, 2013

Don’t worry William, you probably will be dead by then, and so your Patrician family sensibilities won’t be threatened.

***

Exactly. But that’s not to imply that his xenophobic opinion can be taken seriously right now, however.

735. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

724. Disinvited – July 17, 2013

While they’ve all been white so far, the Brits are a fairly progressive people and it isn’t hard to foresee a black incarnation of the Doctor at some point.

736. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

720. Aurore – July 17, 2013

Don’t get me wrong ; I very much like my James Tiberius Kirk the way he looks, right now. I love him.

However, in the distant future, filmmakers could choose to cast a black man in the role…If, for whatever reason, they really wanted to, who could stop them?

***

Hi Aurore! In answer to your question: Any Star Trek fan who felt so strongly about the issue that he could rouse himself from the dead.

737. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

731. Vultan – July 17, 2013

Okay. Does anyone else see the irony here? What do we call this? Retrogressive progressive casting?

***

Ha! That’s witty.

738. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Exactly.

But you are using logic. That’s “old” Star Trek. “New” Trek is attitude, at least for some, as in angry nu-Spock telling his superior he’s experiencing multiple attitudes simultaneously, something a wise ass teenager would say to his parent, but not a seasoned Starfleet officer like Spock to an admiral

>731. star trackie – July 17, 2013

OK, suppose we have a world where chocolate chip cookies aren’t selling or some new generation has decided that chocolate is too harmful, and they replace the chocolate chips with peppermint pieces, the new favorite candy of this fictional “chocolate-hating” generation, in order to generate interest in this time-honored treat. They also added a lemon glaze because someone thought it would be a neat twist. And they still call it a Chocolate Chip cookie.

Sure. Makes perfect sense- to someone. But not me.

739. Vultan - July 17, 2013

#735

Thanks!

740. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

730. star trackie – July 17, 2013

Understand what you’re saying, but not a good analogy. Just look at the BSG reboot. The core story was the same, as well as the characters. Altering the sex of Starbuck, and all the other little changes, didn’t overhaul the franchise’s identity in the way that completely changing all the features of a cookie and still calling it “chocolate chip” does, even though the historical fact is that things DO radically change but keep the same name.

That wouldn’t happen if some future incarnation had Kirk as a black man if the core story and its other characters and ships were the same. Edward James Olmos wasn’t a racial replacement for Lorne Greene either, but that didn’t halt our ability to identify both old and new BSGs as variations of the same franchise.

741. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

Sorry for the pseudo-double post. The original was gone when I posted the second version.

#737

You’re welcome!

742. Buzz Cagney - July 17, 2013

Yo Vults!
As i’ve told you before its called ‘positive discrimation’. And Orci and Chums and guilt of discrimination. Oh they don’t realise that they are, but they are.
They denied an Indian or similar actor the chance to play this iconic role (discrimination) and thought it would be ok to make a white Brit a terrorist because, well, it is just ok to do that. They won’t complain. Its an easy out.
Really quite pathetic that there are such woolly thinkers out there.

They should have cast Khan more accurately and they should have, and I realise this is a very big ask, made a better film! There, I said it.
Four years. Four years they kept us waiting!

Having watched TWoK last night it makes me realise just what an average and forgettable piece of work Dorkness is.

743. Vultan - July 17, 2013

#738

And sorry for that bit of snottiness in my previous comments the other day. Didn’t intend to come off that way.

Sarcasm is a dangerous weapon, and I often end up shooting myself. ;-)

744. Vultan - July 17, 2013

#739

Hey, Buzz. Yeah, you’re right, my friend. ‘Positive discrimination,’ as you Brits put it, isn’t so positive. And while I understand Abrams and company’s thinking and sensitivity on the subject, I’m not sure they thought it all the way through. Woolly indeed.

I liked Dorkness up to about the point Cumby opened his very stretchy mouth. Harrison was working just fine for me. Would’ve been interesting if the entire movie had been a chase to get him. Road runner in space. Beep beep!

745. Disinvited - July 17, 2013

#733. dmduncan – July 17, 2013

Agreed, and as I’ve said if his clone can be a female they’ve laid the foundation for a possible female regeneration. But not just because of that, they’ve also set up that the regeneration can be influenced by DNA not inherent in The Gallifreyan Doctor himself.

746. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Now you are reverting to Moff mumbo jumbo about exposure to the time vortex creating some Time Lord-LIKE elements in River Song, who is not a Time Lord and certainly not the Doctor …

This is what comes of trying to look up stuff on the Internet to make a faux point … about something that has nothing to do with Star Trek!

rotfl

747. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

… Incidentally, the “clone” was clearly not identical nor the Doctor.

Fascinating what tangential lengths some will go to in order to pretend to make a point.

ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STAR TREK.

rotfl

748. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Did you look up “xenophobic” yet??

rotfl

>735. dmduncan – July 17, 2013

749. Disinvited - July 17, 2013

#743. William Bradley – July 17, 2013

Your are in error. Don’t let the title throw you, it had nothing to do with River:

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Jenny_%28The_Doctor%27s_Daughter%29

750. Keachick - rose pinenut - July 17, 2013

I don’t know about dmduncan but I did look up the meaning of “xenophobic” and here is what I found -

“The first is a population group present within a society that is not considered part of that society.[citation needed] Often they are recent immigrants, but xenophobia may be directed against a group which has been present for centuries, or became part of this society through conquest and territorial expansion. This form of xenophobia can elicit or facilitate hostile and violent reactions, such as mass expulsion of immigrants, pogroms or in other cases, genocide.”

What is presented is an extreme form that xenophobia may take, however it is possible that you, William Bradley, given the present definition, could be deemed a little “xenophobic”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia

One has to wonder why you seem so agitated over such a “meaningless” discussion. This site is often bogged down by “meaningless” discussions of all kinds. Trekmovie.com is probably world famous for it. It would be a shame to stop now…

As a matter of FACT and interest – a little while ago there was an incident that took place in Britain. A couple had immigrated from the small African country of Niger, where people are generally black black. Both were that colour. However, the woman gave birth to twins and both babies were white, NOT albinos, but pink white, just like any white caucasian, anglo-saxon couple would produce. Maternity and paternity and other tests were done on the babies and both parents. Both of those two very black looking parents are the biological parents of those two white looking children.

I am unsure as to whether these children may have darkened up over time or not. Possibly not. It is likely that they *suffer* from some kind of genetic abnormality which has to do with skin pigmentation. BTW, the couple had more children and they are also white. Luckily, for those children, they were born into a fairly tolerant multi-racial, multi-cultural nation.

How might those children want to identify themselves as being? After all, their parents were born and brought up within the Niger culture. Whatever extended family they have would also look black black. Depending on how the parents brought them up, they may know a lot about their parents’ culture and quite possibly be bilingual. Wow – talk about “white-washing”.

Truth can indeed be just a bit stranger than fiction.

751. Curt - July 17, 2013

Director, huh? What’s Harve Bennett up to?

752. Keachick - rose pinenut - July 17, 2013

William Bradley – Since when have the contributors to Trekmovie.com not, on occasion, indulged in “meaningless” discussions of all kinds? This site is quite possibly world famous for it. It would be a shame to stop now…

Actually, I do not think that discussion on how the Star Trek characters might be portrayed as per race and/or sexual orientation is necessarily as silly and meaningless as you seem to think.

People are kind of “blowing smoke” as people do, but sometimes interesting ideas and insights can come about while people blow some smoke…

753. Disinvited - July 17, 2013

“After the apparent destruction of the TARDIS with her in it, Donna Noble touched the energised hand’s container. The regenerative energies present within the Doctor’s severed hand combined with the human DNA of Donna Noble caused an instantaneous biological Meta Crisis. The force of the reaction shattered the container, allowing the energy to regenerate the entire missing body of the Doctor. In this process, the Meta-Crisis Tenth Doctor was created. (TV: Journey’s End) ”

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Meta-Crisis_Tenth_Doctor

754. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Don’t worry, I’m not “thrown” by your misguided tangent HAVING NOTHING TO DO WITH STAR TREK.

I suppose actual discussion of Trek’s future here is essentially dead.

>746. Disinvited – July 17, 2013

755. Barney Fife - July 17, 2013

Bob Orci:
Any comments regarding your new deal with CBS Television? Or is it too early to comment?

756. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

A complete waste of time in the form of a complete distortion of who and what the Doctor is.

You really are one of those sorts who haunts the Internet looking for irrelevancies in order to keep a fake discussion going forever.

AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STAR TREK OR KIRK.

That is the saddest thing about it.

749. Disinvited – July 17, 2013

757. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

740. Vultan – July 17, 2013

No problem. I was probably being a touch oversensitive too.

758. Jack - July 17, 2013

I’m so confused — I went to see Trek again last night (the first time in 2D).

I wanted to leave from the attack on starfleet until about when Khan killed Marcus… and then I started getting into it again, although I caught myself counting down from 100 during the Spock and Khan footcjase. But overall, it worked better than I remembered. The whole torpedo plot still doesn’t make much sense. And Cumberbatch is more cranky than charismatic, and Weller’s scenery-devouring Crazy Cheney becomes kind of silly, oh yeah, and people still laughed during Spock’s “Khaaaaaan!” — but it worked. Am I the only one thinking the piano sounded a little cheesy…

759. Jack - July 17, 2013

So, if Bob’s accepting story/script submissions from jerks like me who hurled insults — I think I’ve figured out the best summer Trek movie ever…

760. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

Oh, and Vultan, have you had a look at the Europa Report trailer? Looks good. You may like.

http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/magnolia/europareport/

761. Disinvited - July 17, 2013

#751. William Bradley – July 17, 2013

“You really are one of those sorts who haunts the Internet looking for irrelevancies in order to keep a fake discussion going forever.”

Another false assertion.

I knew to search for THE DOCTOR’S DAUGHTER, because the episode jarred me with its references to Jenny being a clone when I watched it and JOURNEY’S END, what Whovian forgets seeing that?

If you truly wish not to be a part of of this “tangent”, as you call it, then kindly stop addressing it, as it is now you Who (sic) are boring me.

762. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Acknowledge this has nothing to do with Star Trek.

You are trying to evade the errant Kirk nonsense you spun up by throwing up nonsense about Doctor Who.

WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STAR TREK, EVEN IF YOU ARE RIGHT, WHICH YOU ARE NOT.

>756. Disinvited – July 17, 2013

763. DaCanuck - July 17, 2013

Great point Mike MCP!
____________________________________________________
Whitewashing! I suppose it’s not “hip” anymore to have an darker skinned actor play an Indian named Khan Noonien SINGH. .

Your reasoning might be valid if the production team hadn’t already stated- quite unequivocally- that Roddenberry’s universe remains intact up to the point of incursion. If the writers want to reboot the series, then have the balls to just go ahead and admit you’re doing so, but don’t try to increase box office numbers by luring in the fans of old by promising continuity, then, not delivering. I say this as a 29 y.o. btw. Despite what you may want to believe, Paramount still needs established fans to move forward with Star Trek as much as they need to generate new ones, so don’t alienate the old ones with this blatant obfuscation. It’s disrespectful. And yes, I know it sounds like I’m going overboard, because it’s only a movie. But you know what, for many people Star Trek has helped shaped them in a very personal way, myself included. Much of the meaning layered in Star Trek has informed everything from my politics to my outlook on my place in society as a minority. So yes, I take my Star Trek seriously, and I’m not ashamed to admit it. I for one can promise you, I wont be paying to see another Star Trek film with this production team in charge. I’ll vote with my pocketbook. I don’t have to purchases DVD’s, collectibles, or anything else related to Abram’s Star Trek if they’re going to be so disrespectful of us originalists. I know a lot of fans who feel the exact same way as I do and I dare suggest you’re already seeing this reflected in STID’s mediocre box office performance thus far.

764. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Did you look up “xenophobic” yet?

You were trying to call me a racist, I suspect, but realized that would sound both bad and ludicrous.

>756. dmduncan – July 17, 2013

765. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

To be clear, Disinvited, are you trying to claim that the “daughter” was actually one of the Doctors?

Are you trying to claim that Donna Noble was actually one of the Doctors?

Because that is the only way, however tangential, that it has anything remotely to do with the point.

>757. Disinvited – July 17, 2013
#751. William Bradley – July 17, 2013

“You really are one of those sorts who haunts the Internet looking for irrelevancies in order to keep a fake discussion going forever.”

Another false assertion.

I knew to search for THE DOCTOR’S DAUGHTER, because the episode jarred me with its references to Jenny being a clone when I watched it and JOURNEY’S END, what Whovian forgets seeing that?

766. Craiger - July 17, 2013

The are rumors of the next Doctor being a woman.

767. Basement Blogger - July 17, 2013

@ 727, 746

Dmduncan and others,

Dmduncan, don’t take the flamebait. (William Bradley @ 745) This is part of the guy’s modus operandi. Ad hominem attacks. Incendiary language. Patronizing attitude. It’s all to get you to angrily respond. He’s also accused me of not knowing the definition of a word. Link.

See William Bradley’s post at 164.
lhttp://trekmovie.com/into-darkness-open-discussion/

Dmduncan, we’ve had strong words with each other. But you’ve never trolled me. We’ve also had agreements on topics too. (Would like to discuss the Rendlesham Forest sightings.)

@ 720

Aurore,

I know you want attention. :-) But don’t feed the troll. Would like to post some Brazilian jazz from Eliane Elias for you but that’s way off topic. Please try to find some friendlier people to talk with.

768. Who cares - July 17, 2013

Character: Perry White, first appearance 1940, ethnicity Caucasian, current cinematic incarnation African American.

Character: Wilson Fisk aka Kingpin, first appearance 1966, ethnicity Caucasian, cinematic incarnation African American.

Character: Nick Fury, first appearance 1963, ethnicity Caucasian, cinematic incarnation African American.

Character: Spider-Man, first appearance 1962, ethnicity Caucasian, current comic book incarnation Hispanic.

Nuff said.

769. Red Dead Ryan - July 17, 2013

William Bradley,

No matter how much you troll, no one is going to take you seriously here. You’re not going to get away with bullying those with differing opinions.

Stop it. Now.

770. Basement Blogger - July 17, 2013

@ 761

Sorry for the typo. Take out the l before the URL link.

771. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

As I said, actual discussion of Trek’s future is moribund here.

Enjoy your irrelevant tangents and endless churning over nothing.

772. crazydaystrom - July 17, 2013

STID disappoints and the quality of this site nosedives decidedly. And there may not be a direct connection between the two.

Too bad. So sad…

773. Jason - July 17, 2013

2016 is too long.

THey need at least a two year turnaround

what are they gonna get out of the 50th anniversary? Entertainment Weekly cover? It wont help the movie that much.

774. Disinvited - July 17, 2013

#759. William Bradley – July 17, 2013

No, I’m saying the episode had lines that kept referring to Jenny and the process that created her as a clone and cloning. To bring this a bit to Trek, I followed the rule that if it appears on screen then that’s what it is. If you are asking if it bugged me? Yes. But, I really like the actress that played Jenny and I saw no use crying over the spilled milk. Especially, given they opened the door for her return. Just as they opened the door that this cloning mechanism could some how create a female out of the same DNA that reshuffles when The Doctor regenerates.

For brevity’s sake, this next relation will be much cruder. When Tennant regenerated as the Tenth Doctor he got his hand cut off while still in the “hours” of his regeneration cycle. Because he was still in this regeneration phase he grew it back. His severed hand was lost but served as useful prop in several episodes down the line (even crossed over to TORCHWOOD if I recall correctly.). Eventually, he recovered it and secured it in the TARDIS. In the episode prior to JOURNEY’S END The Doctor is shot and begins dying which initiates regeneration. During this, I recall a reminiscing/flashback sequence where he decides he is not yet ready to give up his current form. Somehow, through exertion of his will he was able to control the energy so that he was able to heal himself in the Tennant form but at some point he declared that if he didn’t find a way to dissipate his building regeneration energy that it would result in a change that he wasn’t yet ready to have happen. He then recalled the severed hand and sent all this “unneeded” regeneration energy into it. The rest, you’ve read.

The explanation I recall was that because of something that had happened to it on the road to his repossession that it lacked a “complete matrix” to regenerate a complete Doctor from the more than enough energy it received to initiate reconstruction of said Time Lord. When Donna touched it the regeneration whatsawhoseits was able to use her human DNA to fill in the missing bits and the hand became a duplicate of the Tennant form Doctor., i.e. there were now 2 of them. Later analysis revealed that this duplicate was more human than Time Lord (even though he had identical memories to his original) and thus would not regenerate ever again, which worked out just peachy for Rose in the parallel dimension.

775. Aurore - July 17, 2013

“But don’t feed the troll.”
______

That is not what I was doing.

Sometimes, people just disagree with each other. Such is life.

“Please try to find some friendlier people to talk with.”

I like talking to myself …if only I weren’t so mean every now and again…

:)

“Would like to post some Brazilian jazz from Eliane Elias for you but that’s way off topic.”

…Really? Posting off-topic stuff is a problem now?

Oh puh-lease, what is this?! Just post it on the thread where you shared the “Corinthian leather” links, some time ago, then!

Come on…be friendly, man! Stop “trolling” !

776. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

761. Basement Blogger – July 17, 2013

“Dmduncan, don’t take the flamebait.”

Oh I have no urge to satisfy his defective need for attention. The discussion is over.

“Dmduncan, we’ve had strong words with each other. But you’ve never trolled me. We’ve also had agreements on topics too. (Would like to discuss the Rendlesham Forest sightings.)”

1. Yes. Having a strong disagreement from time to time doesn’t mean anyone is trolling, and it doesn’t mean you disrespect the other guy.

2. When I go out of my house at night now, I see the Milky Way running across the sky. It’s fun to watch satellites. A couple weeks ago I saw something, very high up, like a satellite, that wasn’t moving in a “straight line” the way satellites do. It actually followed a curved course across the sky. At first I thought it was a rather fast moving satellite until I noted the unmistakeable curvature of its path which seemed to prove that it didn’t have a geocentric orbit.

Don’t know what it was. Wish I had a night vision astronomical telescope.

777. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

How pompous you are.

You are simply an irritant, a minor one at that. I have zero interest in “attention” from you.

I am interested in discussing the future of Star Trek. There are some here, still, who are.

Then there is you and a persistent little band of others who do anything but.

My read is this site is essentially dead. Don’t pretend you have done anything with your total lack of information on what is happening with Trek — unlike the info I bring — and your endless irrelevancies that you contribute anything of value.

>768. dmduncan – July 17, 2013
761. Basement Blogger – July 17, 2013

“Dmduncan, don’t take the flamebait.”

Oh I have no urge to satisfy his defective need for attention. The discussion is over.

778. Jake - July 17, 2013

STID could’ve been the best movie in the franchise, if it had been written by a different team than Orci and Kurtzmann.

The direction was great, the cast gave fantastic performances, the score was fantastic, the art design, everything — the only place where the movie fell down was the writing. The story was just plain bad. Stupid, even, and nonsensical, and the constant references to every other movie in the franchise just got annoying after a while. Also, KHAAAAAANN. God Almighty, the theater roared with laughter after KHAAAAAAAN. Not good.

Bob, Alex, you guys are great writers of Michael Bay scripts. You are not good enough at your craft to write a good sci-fi action story. We were all kind of hoping for Star Trek’s Skyfall, and you gave us a better-directed, better-acted Transformers 3..

Please, step aside for the 50th anniversary. I love you guys, but you’re the very weak link in an otherwise stellar production team. The fact that STID was as good as it was despite your script is a testament to how good it could be.

779. Ahmed - July 17, 2013

An article about Star Trek on io9:

———————————————
Is it realistic to think that the future will be like Star Trek?

In the Star Trek universe, humans no longer make war on each other and don’t use money. Poverty has been eradicated and so have sexism, racism, and various other -isms. Science fiction often predicts the future accurately, but do you think humanity could ever really achieve that level of enlightenment?

http://io9.com/is-it-realistic-to-think-that-the-future-will-be-like-s-817131110
———————————————

780. Craiger - July 17, 2013

Ahmed, the one thing I don’t like about Trek is WW3 and the Eugenics Wars happened. I wonder if we could get to Trek’s future without WW3?

781. Craiger - July 17, 2013

and the Eugenics Wars happening?

782. Craiger - July 17, 2013

Anyone think we should have a “Future of Trekmovie” article? Their is now one month until Trekmovie’s domain expires. What happens to this site after that date and the domain isn’t renewed? It sounds to me like Anthony has grown tired of reporting Trek news and wants to let Trekmovie expire? On Whois domain search the expiration date is 8-18 2013.

783. Ahmed - July 17, 2013

@Craiger,

I think the real cold war had something to that part of Star Trek future history. Most people in the 1960s were scared of that possibility from what I read in history books.

784. Aurore - July 17, 2013

@ 734. dmduncan – July 17, 2013
______

Hi, dmduncan! I hope you are well!

785. Ahmed - July 17, 2013

@773. Craiger

Matt Wright might knows something about that.

786. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

Well, the geopolitical scene of today is extremely laden with conflict. The Obama Administration is reeling with crisis after crisis, struggling to manage them.

Could a world war take place?

Absolutely.

787. dmduncan - July 17, 2013

775. Aurore – July 17, 2013

Hi, dmduncan! I hope you are well!

**

I am, thank you. And you are too, I hope.

788. William Bradley - July 17, 2013

And have you figured out what “xenophobic” means yet?

I expect an apology for calling me “xenophobic.”

Heh.

>778. dmduncan – July 17, 2013

789. Mitchell - July 17, 2013

Here are some good examples of how terribly flawed films can be very “successful”

http://screencrush.com/successful-movies-that-no-one-likes/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_75096

790. Curious Cadet - July 17, 2013

I just saw a billboard for Sleepy Hollow that boasted it was from the writers of Star Trek and Transformers.

Yikes. That’s going to scare away a lot of people and likely confuse the rest …

791. MJ (The Original). - July 17, 2013

William Bradley,

Why do you go out of your way to be such an ass here?

You are a smart guy and have a lot to offer to the discussions here.

792. MJ (The Original). - July 17, 2013

@734 “That was short enough for me to read. And to note that you don’t know what “xenophobic” means. Truly unbelievable stuff, sport. Especially on a Star Trek board, of all places. rotfl”

What’s with this? Are you attributing other peoples comments to me again? I NEVER used the word “xenophopic” in any context with you? Huh?

I get that you are having a bad day or whatever and are just being a dick to everyone here, but please, once again, stop fabricating make-believe quotes by me. I NEVER SAID THAT. wtf???

793. MJ (The Original). - July 17, 2013

@790. Never mind, sorry, I see that you had inserted my quote but then were also responding to DM Duncan who used that work.

794. Aurore - July 18, 2013

@ 785. dmduncan – July 17, 2013
775. Aurore – July 17, 2013
______

I am.
Thank you for asking.

:)

795. William Bradley - July 18, 2013

I don’t tolerate that kind of language, which is par for the course for a little coterie here that engages in dumb flaming and pointless — I’m looking for a diplomatic word here — whatever.

You all have been chewing on each other for too long.

This is not a good place to discuss the future of Star Trek.

>789. MJ (The Original). – July 17, 2013
William Bradley,

Why do you go out of your way to be such an ass here?

You are a smart guy and have a lot to offer to the discussions here.

796. William Bradley - July 18, 2013

Looking for attention, MJ?

I know you can and do read through this stuff here. So you know better.

OBVIOUSLY I am talking to that DMDuncan or whatever guy.

And OBVIOUSLY the numbers here keep shifting around in dysfunctional fashion.

Thanks for wasting my time by requiring an explanation for something that has nothing to do with you.

Oh, and enough of the typical cheap name calling.

Don’t call me an “ass.” Don’t call me a “dick.”

In fact, don’t call me.

But do go on discussing the black lesbian James T. Kirk, so essential to the future of Star Trek.

>790. MJ (The Original). – July 17, 2013
@734 “That was short enough for me to read. And to note that you don’t know what “xenophobic” means. Truly unbelievable stuff, sport. Especially on a Star Trek board, of all places. rotfl”

What’s with this? Are you attributing other peoples comments to me again? I NEVER used the word “xenophopic” in any context with you? Huh?

I get that you are having a bad day or whatever and are just being a dick to everyone here, but please, once again, stop fabricating make-believe quotes by me. I NEVER SAID THAT. wtf???

797. William Bradley - July 18, 2013

Hey, MJ.

RIGHT ABOVE YOUR ATTACK ON ME …

I know you can read. So you obviously insisted on wasting my time with another cheap shot flame.

786. William Bradley – July 17, 2013
And have you figured out what “xenophobic” means yet?

I expect an apology for calling me “xenophobic.”

Heh.

>778. dmduncan – July 17, 2013

798. George Henry - July 18, 2013

It’s a bit obvious what going to happen in the next movie, the Klingons are going to find out about their dead comrades, and demand Khan be extradited or there will be war

799. Admiral_Bumblebee - July 18, 2013

Idea for next movie (Bob Orci, use if you wish to ;) ):

The movie opens with a big battle between Starfleet and the Klingons. The Klingons lose but they manage to sneak an agent to earth who awakens Khan and his henchmen. Khan swears vengeance and wants to kill Kirk and Spock as well as destroy the Federation. He tells the Klingons that he knows of a way to defeat Starfleet. Due to the technology of the Narada and Prime-Spock Starfleet knows of the Borg. As an ex-agent of Starfleet Khan has access to this knowledge. Khan contacts the Borg and they assimilate the Klingons and start an invasion of the Federation. Starfleet is unprepared but Prime-Spock knows of someone who defeated the Borg more than once – Captain Picard. The Enterprise manages to open a wormhole to the Prime Universe to seek help from the advanced Federation, but the Borg are aware of this and follow them.
As Kirk and Co. try to get help from Picard, the Borg merge with the Borg of the Prime Universe to become an unstoppable force which wants to conquer both universes. They launch an attack on Prime Earth where both Enterprises try to defend the planet. The new leader of the Borg contacts them, it is an assimilated Khan. He teases them an shows his new first officer who is in charge of conquering the new universe. It is the resurrected and assimilated Prime Kirk.
“Isn’t it ironic that as one Kirk tries to save this universe, another Kirk conquers yours…”

As Picard and the Prime-Enterprise try to stop the Borg, the alternate Enterprise follows Prime-Kirk back through the wormhole. During a battle they manage to disable the Borg ship and board the ship, capturing Prime Kirk. With the help of Doctor Crusher Bones is able to remove the implants. Prime Kirk is reunited with his old friends.

Prime Kirk knows that the assimilation of Khan changed something in the collective. To defend himself from losing his personality, he uploaded some sort of virus into his consciousness, threatening to download it into the collective, thus destroying it, if the Borg tried to destroy his personality. All agree that the only way to defeat the Borg once and for all would be to capture Khan and download the virus into the Borg neural network which is located on their homeworld.

With a trick they lure Khan into a trap and manage to capture him.

Both ships agree to travel to the Borg homeworld. While the alternate Enterprise tries to bring Khan to the central computer of the Borg, Enterprise Prime tries to hold up the Borg force guarding the homeworld.
So Prime Kirk and Prime Spock are back on the bridge of the Enterprise. Due to alternate Scottys modifications which he got from the USS Vengeance in STID the ship is mostly automated and Prime Kirk and Prime Spock can fly it by themselves. With transwarp they fly into the heart of the Borg space. There a battle ensues above the homeworld of the Borg. Prime Kirk beams down to connect Khan to the collective again and download the virus. Khan manages to free himself. A fight ensues. Prime Kirk is no match for Khan and just as he is about to kill the old captain, alternate Kirk is beaming down. As he has been resurrected by the DNA of Khan in STID he and Prime Kirk can defeat Khan and connect him to the computer, uploading the virus. The Borg fleet stops fighting. The Borg even form individual thoughts which will eventually result in them becoming true indiviuals who no longer want to assimilate other beings.
The ships return home and Prime Spock and Prime Kirk travel to the Prime Universe together with Picard whereas the crew of the alternate Enterprise continue their adventures.

800. PaulB - July 18, 2013

#797 Bumblebee, don’t quit your day job. Unless your day job is “screenwriter.”

Then again, what you wrote isn’t a lot dumber than what Orci & co “wrote.”

801. Mitchell - July 18, 2013

@788. Curious Cadet -
BWHAHAHAHA! i seriously wanted to roll on the floor and laugh my butt off.

The Headless Lens flare?

@797. Admiral_Bumblebee -
a bit too convoluted even for a Star Trek movie but i’d pay to see it. Just To See It.

802. Mitchell - July 18, 2013

@798. PaulB – July 18, 2013
What Bumblebee wrote is actually much better than anything they’ve come up with. Ever.

At least he has an idea for a grand epic Trek that would span the galaxy and not the beastie boys playlist.

803. Toby - July 18, 2013

@796 I’d be happy with that

804. Coatie - July 18, 2013

No Borg please … Star Trek’s rip off of the Terminator movies was boring and cheesy in the 90′s and has run its course.

805. Classy M - July 18, 2013

Congratulations to Benedict Cumberbatch on his Emmy nomination for Best Actor in a miniseries (‘Parade’s End’).

806. Classy M - July 18, 2013

I’m seeing tweets that Zachery Quinto was also nominated, but he’s not on the TV Line list. http://tvline.com/2013/07/18/emmy-nominations-2013-list-65th-primetime-emmys-nominees/

But congrats to Zach too, just in case!

807. Curious Cadet - July 18, 2013

@803 Classy M,

Yup. 3 Trek alums in that nomination category.

Outstanding Supporting Actor In A Miniseries Or A Movie
American Horror Story: Asylum • FX Networks • 20th Century Fox Television
James Cromwell as Dr. Arthur Arden

American Horror Story: Asylum • FX Networks • 20th Century Fox Television
Zachary Quinto as Dr. Oliver Thredson

Behind The Candelabra • HBO • Jerry Weintraub Productions in association with HBO Films
Scott Bakula as Bob Black

808. ME!! - July 18, 2013

Instead of competing with Lego, they should just make a deal with Lego and release Lego Star Trek sets and video games. I’d be the first to preorder ANY Lego Star Trek game especially if it were based on the Original Series with the hub being located on the Enterprise with “away missions” (i.e. levels) being accessible from the transporter room and each being based on certain episodes (such as Arena, The Trouble With Tribbles, etc). To me and my wife, it’s a no-brainer. No competing toy line has ever matched the success of Lego. Anyone remember Tente? They were superior in a lot of ways to Lego sets of the time, but ultimately failed to sell as Lego sets did and continue to do.

Lego Star Trek the video game would be super cute with Scotty having a wrench (you Lego video game fans should know where I’m going with this), Spock using his neck pinch, Kirk using a phaser and McCoy using a hypospray to knock bad guys out.

Lego Star Trek!!!! I want it!! My wife wants it!! My kids want it!!!!

809. Classy M - July 18, 2013

@804 Curious Cadet – It’s great to see our guys doing so well. Thanks for the update.

810. crazydaystrom - July 18, 2013

American Horror Story received more Emmy nods than any other show this year and the recognition is WELL deserved. A quality television show with a very interesting anthology format: each season being a completely different story with many, if not most, of the cast returning as different characters. And the performances are brilliant! As is the writing.

I’m not a big fan of horror, mainly because I haven’t been frightened by anything on screen since I saw The Exorcist back in the seventies. But AHS, particularly the second season, ‘Asylum’, induced some very real willies and truly creeped me out! And Z. Quinto…well, I’ll say no more other than congrats on the nom, Mr. Q! American Horror Story is a gem of a show. I highly recommend it to any who’ve not seen it.

I loved Ron Moore’s Battlestar Galactica. If TINTS (The Inevitable New Trek Show) is anywhere near as good as this is, we fans will experience some giddy satisfaction!

But our buds at ‘The Baddest of all Robots’ have anything to do with it…
:-(

“BAD ROBOT! BAAAAD ROBOT!!” *swat’s nose with rolled newspaper* “Look at this mess you’ve made!!”

811. crazydaystrom - July 18, 2013

IF TINTS is as good as AHS, that is.

812. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

William,

So you get a free pass to behave like an “ass” to many people here, but when I use that word which so aptly describes your bevavior here, I am in the wrong?

You are better than this, dude.

And by behaving badly here, you bring out the worst in others.

813. Ahmed - July 18, 2013

@ WB

I agree with MJ is saying here, sometime the way you respond to other posters tend to be provocative & usually bring a negative reaction from others.

We need to remember that we are discussing a fictional universe & there is absolutely no need to get nasty about it.

814. William Bradley - July 18, 2013

Frankly, I find the behavior of some here to be so wildly objectionable — and the lack of content or real discussion here so incredibly tedious — that …

Some of the most ridiculous and frankly stupid flames I have ever received have come here.

RIP.

815. Marja - July 18, 2013

732, star trackie, More like, they’d be “Peppermint Chip Cookies! Not like your father’s Chocolate Chip Cookies!” … while I get your point about the product being one you don’t like, sold under a rubric you trust[ed], I don’t think Chocolate Chip Cookies would sell to people who didn’t like Chocolate Chips … unless your point is that as a “fooled” and angry customer, you’ll make Paramount change the “cookies” back to what they were … not likely based on how many people like the “peppermint chip cookies”. With lemon glaze. Some of us mostly like the “dough” that holds the chips together – the characters we love ….

774, dmduncan, I saw one of those too! wot the heck? Strained my neck, but I was fascinated. Maybe the lizard people or the Pleadians are keeping an eye on us, LOL.

808 Daystrom, While I love Quinto’s stellar acting, there is no way I could watch American Horror Story … I’ve only ever made it partway through … I tried, but it evokes the very darkest of human characteristics and emotions and fears [the human willingness to abuse others is the creepiest part to me] and is “TOO INTENSE FOR SOME VIEWERS [that would be me]“. Heck, the head-crushing and kidney-kicking in STiD was really nasty to me. On the other hand, for some reason I can handle “Dexter” and “The X-Files” which also feature malevolent characters …. it just seems like AHS goes SO far into that dark territory … it scares the crap outta me! It is truly horror in the modern sensibility, unlike my beloved old tacky horror films from Hammer Films … ah those days of yesteryear, when horror was a scream and a classy-seeming vampire with Christopher Lee’s deep dark voice ….

816. dmduncan - July 18, 2013

808. crazydaystrom – July 18, 2013

Yeah, the BSG reboot was fantastic,and it highlighted at least the main artistic reason why you DO reboot things: To do a good idea BETTER than it was done before.

Even, for example, if you don’t like Man of Steel as much as Superman (and I love BOTH versions), you can’t deny that Man of Steel shows Superman’s feats of amazingness in a way that Richard Donner could NOT have done without CGI, so there is at least that improvement in Man of Steel.

And then again, when times change, the people of those times change, how they tell stories changes, so you also reboot great ideas for modern audiences, and when you do that they aren’t going to come out looking exactly like what they did before.

817. dmduncan - July 18, 2013

813. Marja – July 18, 2013

774, dmduncan, I saw one of those too! wot the heck? Strained my neck, but I was fascinated. Maybe the lizard people or the Pleadians are keeping an eye on us, LOL.

***

I don’t KNOW what the heck. I wish I KNEW what the heck!

818. Khan 2.0 - July 18, 2013

797 Admiral_Bumblebee

reminds me abit of Shatners The Return except with Khan and the nuCrew

and to any naysayers you know youd love a film like that for the 50th anniversary!

the Borg, a revenge driven Khan, Shatner, Nimoy, Stewart, all mixing with the nu crew. wed be in Trekkie heaven.. Trekstasy LOL

i hope bob orci reads it and copies it word for word LOL

819. Disinvited - July 18, 2013

#777. Ahmed – July 17, 2013

Allow me to preface that I am still recovering from the raw emotions of discovering yesterday that only the timely response of police (40 vehicles) separated some near and dear relatives from the wonton destruction of their local gas station that’s still being labelled as a “Zimmerman Protest.” So my reply may be tinged with far more emotion than I normally have in discussing this topic.

While it is true the Earth humans of Trek do pride themselves on having eliminated war on their home planet, it is a bit misleading to take that to mean that humans of the 23rd century and beyond in Trek have eliminated human warring.

In ARENA, Kirk mentioned his warlike nature and that he was ready to war.

In OMEGA GLORY, the federation human, Captain Tracey, empties his phaser killing thousands of OMEGA IV’s very human Yangs, an act that might somehow escape being regarded as an act of war in 1960 being that of a singular man, but surely would be so labelled in our present.

There are more examples across every Trek incarnation, but one should suffice to disprove this notion.

If I may be permitted, I would modify the posit to: Prime Earth of the 23rd century Trek and beyond, learned nobly to stop fouling its own nest with war and pollution, but they have a ways to go before they stop exporting it to the rest of the galaxy.

And as for altEarth, well, whatever else altKhan may have been he definitely was and is an Earth Human. STID would seem to have stripped nuTrek of any ability to make a home war eliminating claim?

820. Red Dead Ryan - July 18, 2013

#812. William Bradley.

“Frankly, I find the behavior of some here to be so wildly objectionable — and the lack of content or real discussion here so incredibly tedious — that …

Some of the most ridiculous and frankly stupid flames I have ever received have come here.”

Maybe you should look in the mirror before criticising others here for the very same behaviour that YOU are exhibiting yourself.

But I doubt that you will, as you are acting like you are the one who is “right” and that everyone else happens to be “wrong”. You accuse others of being an “ass”, but it is you who deserves the title, buddy.

821. crazydaystrom - July 18, 2013

813. Marja –
“I tried, but it evokes the very darkest of human characteristics and emotions and fears…”

Indeed. And I believe that is the (or at very least, one) definition of ‘horror’.

“TOO INTENSE FOR SOME VIEWERS [that would be me]“

Not me but of course ‘To each his/her own’.

“… it just seems like AHS goes SO far into that dark territory … it scares the crap outta me!”

Again, not I. As I mentioned, I haven’t scared by these types of things since I saw ‘The Exorcist’ at age 17 back in the seventies. AHS comes closest. It DOES seriously give me the creeps. That’s its appeal to me. The sudden smile on the statue’s face at the end of the opening credits actually gave me goosebumps several times…even when I was expecting it!

“…(those) beloved old tacky horror films from Hammer Films … ah those days of yesteryear…”

Love ‘em!

814. dmduncan

“Yeah, the BSG reboot was fantastic,and it highlighted at least the main artistic reason why you DO reboot things: To do a good idea BETTER than it was done before.”

Yep. And of the school of thought that JJ’s Star Trek is at the same time both better than TOS and not. And of course I’m not alone in that school.

822. Disco Spock - July 18, 2013

W Bradly,

You need to take a chill pill. Lighten up, guy.

823. Craiger - July 18, 2013

So anyone who disagrees with William is flaming? LOL.

824. Disinvited - July 18, 2013

Let’s take a moment to honor the passing of the first Klingon:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/actor-victor-lundin-star-trek-robinson-crusoe-585570

825. Disinvited - July 18, 2013

#822. Disinvited – July 18, 2013

Oh, and ROBINSON CRUSOE ON MARS, now that was a gem that I discovered and shared with my brothers to our fine enjoyment many decades ago.

826. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

@823

Just bought the Criterion Blu-Ray special edition of Robinson Crusoe on Mars last month. Wow!!! is all I can say. Get it!

And Lundin was great in it. RIP VIctor Lundin.

827. Spock's Bangs - July 18, 2013

789…”William Bradley,

Why do you go out of your way to be such an ass here?

You are a smart guy and have a lot to offer to the discussions here.”

Probably the same reason you do, MJ!

828. Disinvited - July 18, 2013

#824. MJ (The Original). – July 18, 2013

Thanks for sharing that. And I believe BARNES & NOBLEs are currently having a Criterion sale so you’ve given me something to hunt for as well.

829. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

@825. When I have been an ass, I have apologized and faced up to it on this site.

And let me apologize to you, since I have apparently offended you.

830. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

@826. And thank for the heads up on that Criterion sale. Sheesh, I need to spend like $100 now to get what I want from this sale.

831. Disinvited - July 18, 2013

#824. MJ (The Original). – July 18, 2013

I wonder if it’s germane to note that a scant 62 years after Defoe’s literary characters first appeared on film that RCOM is a cherished redo of Defoe’s characters, their looks, nationalities and settings?

832. John from Cincinnati - July 18, 2013

The franchise has no place to go in the JJ verse after the next movie. The only logical place to go for the 50th anniversary is back to the prime universe. A perfect set up for a new Trek series, in the Prime Universe after the destruction of Romulus.

Prime Spock, The Talosians = JJ verse just a Talosian illusion. Prime Spock wakes up on Talos IV. This way, Shatner can be brought back, legitimately, as an illusion for the 50th anniv. Yes, it will be a sentimental movie. A gift for the fans. Kirk and Spock, Shatner and Nimoy, together again one last time.

833. John from Cincinnati - July 18, 2013

With the current legal arrangement between Paramount for the movies and CBS for television, there is no way there will be a tv series set in the JJ verse. Easier for CBS to just do a new series in the Prime universe to avoid all that nonsense with Paramount.

834. William Bradley - July 18, 2013

That is an absolute lie, “Red Dead Ryan.”

Yet another one from you, after you played “detective” and flamed me for days for supposedly being somebody else.

You didn’t have the class to apologize for your flames and lies then, and you sure won’t now.

Your behavior is thoroughly dishonest and abominable.

>818. Red Dead Ryan – July 18, 2013

You accuse others of being an “ass”, but it is you who deserves the title, buddy.

835. William Bradley - July 18, 2013

You have not apologized for your latest liquid outburst last night, sport.

>827. MJ (The Original). – July 18, 2013
@825. When I have been an ass, I have apologized and faced up to it on this site.

And let me apologize to you, since I have apparently offended you.

836. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

Disinvited,

Very cool on the B&N Criterion sale — thanks!!! I just ordered the following Criterion Blu-Rays:

- Things to Come
- For All Mankind
- Seven Samurai
- Yojimbo & Sanjuro
- Heaven’s Gate

837. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

@831. “With the current legal arrangement between Paramount for the movies and CBS for television, there is no way there will be a tv series set in the JJ verse. Easier for CBS to just do a new series in the Prime universe to avoid all that nonsense with Paramount.”

I might be interested in a TV reboot featured somewhere in the timeline of the Prime Universe. But if Berman and Company were going to be involved, then I would rather have no new TV series right now.

838. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

@829. Disinvited, I agreed with you. And I recently read Robinson Crusoe for the first time since high school, and was thunderstruck what truly great novel it remains. I can’t say the same for Moby Dick, which I also read recently — that novel needs an editor.

839. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

@833 / WB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xRrUVVKigk

840. dmduncan - July 18, 2013

834. MJ (The Original). – July 18, 2013

Curious about the Heaven’s Gate re-edit. I read it turned a bad movie good.

841. MJ (The Original).. - July 18, 2013

@838

Yea, I’ve read the same thing, and am hoping for the best. I’ll let you know.

842. dmduncan - July 18, 2013

@837: Hilarious.

In other news: I wish I’d gotten the Criterion Blu-Ray of The Third Man before Studio Canal took over production. Reviews say the Studio Canal version is good but inferior in quality, and the last time I looked for used copies of the Criterion it was worth it’s size in gold.

843. Vultan - July 18, 2013

#834

Good choices, MJ! I haven’t seen the re-edit of Heaven’s Gate either. Hope it has improved.

I used to think TMP was a so-so movie. Then I saw the director’s cut. Wow, much improved! Now it’s one of my favorite Trek movies.

On the flip side, the extended cut of The Good, The Bad & The Ugly is terrible in my opinion. For some odd reason MGM redubbed all the gunshot sounds, taking away some of that spaghetti charm. And the additional scenes… yeah, there’s a good reason Leone cut them. They don’t need to be there!

844. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

@840. Yes, Vultan, and another great example is Scott’s Kingdom of Heaven. The extra 45 min turns a confusing, so-so movie into a great movie.

845. Ahmed - July 18, 2013

@ 840. Vultan – July 18, 2013

“I used to think TMP was a so-so movie. Then I saw the director’s cut. Wow, much improved! Now it’s one of my favorite Trek movies.”

I didn’t see the TMP Director’s cut yet. How did it improved the original cut, did they add new scenes or what ?

846. Vultan - July 18, 2013

#841

Well, there’s another re-edit I need to see. I thought the original cut of Kingdom of Heaven was, like you said, confusing and too long.

#842

Ahmed, it’s been a long time since I saw the theatrical cut of TMP. But if memory serves, the director’s cut gets rid of a couple of extraneous scenes (but there’s still that looong V’ger flyby). And they added some short digital shots of the V’ger ship at the end. They also improved the look of Vulcan a great deal.

But I should add: my improved impression of the movie may have something to do with age. I first saw at age 10 on VHS. Then saw the DC at age 20-something. I’m a little more patient now. ;-)

847. MJ (The Original). - July 18, 2013

@843. Plus, there are a couple more Spock scenes in the Directors Cut which are really good.

848. Vultan - July 18, 2013

Here’s the trailer for the DC of TMP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD1_ENMynpI

And a pretty awesome pic of the redone Vulcan.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/stmagazine/vulcan-tmp.jpg

849. Vultan - July 18, 2013

#844

Have you seen the Star Wars fan edits this guy “Adywan” has been doing on Youtube? Holy crap! He puts Lucasfilm to shame.

850. Matt - July 18, 2013

There is a lot of ripping on CBS going on here.

Personally I see CBS as keeping the franchise alive a lot more than Paramount. Everything Trek that you see at the moment, bar the movies is because of CBS being in charge of licensing. Which effectively makes them the custodians of the Prime Universe. Thanks to them we still have great novels and stories in Star Trek Online.

I tend to agree that if there is going to be a new TV series, it will probably ignore the JJverse, as it will be done by CBS, who are still heavily invested in Prime Universe.

851. Basement Blogger - July 18, 2013

Star Trek belongs on television. Here’s what our leader Anthony Pascale says about Star Trek on television.

“I do believe that Star Trek is at its best on TV, a medium that allows for more complex storytelling and character development. ”

Anthony Pascale, “Exclusive Details and Excerpts from: “Star Trek: Federation” Series Proposal. April 16, 2011.

I agree totally with Anthony’s assessment. Some of the best of Star Trek is some of the less cinematic stories. “The City on the Edge of Forever.” TNG’s “The Inner Light.” DS9′s “The Visitor.” Those kind of stories will never get made as film at least as long as the franchise is viewed as a cash cow.

I rate Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home as the best Star Trek film. It was bold in its story telling by going for more comedy than action movie and in other ways. It featured ideas. The environment. Time travel. It did not rely on good guys versus bad guys. There was no villain. Heck, the Klingon ship didn’t even fire its phasers. The movie was everything I wanted in Star Trek.

Can the movies take that kind of chance in ST IV; TVH did? I don’t know.
The profit motive is strong. I think it requires Paramount look at how well Christopher Nolan’s movies did at the box office. See The Dark Knight. (2008) A bold Star Trek is a possibility. It just requires bold action.

852. Disinvited - July 19, 2013

#847. Matt – July 18, 2013

And if you keep in mind that prior to 2006, that which is now called CBS was named Paramount, even truer a sentiment than you may have known when you first expressed it.

But I think many of the problem fans label “CBS” is just a codeword for Les Moonves:

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Leslie_Moonves

“In February 2005, Moonves was identified as the executive directly responsible for ordering the cancellation of UPN’s Star Trek: Enterprise and the ending of the 18-year Star Trek television franchise.”

FWIW, I didn’t know this about him:

“In his early career, Moonves was an actor. He landed a few television roles, playing tough guys on Cannon and The Six Million Dollar Man before deciding on a career change. He also worked as one of casting director Caro Jones’ first office assistants early in her career.

On April 7, 2003, Moonves portrayed himself in an episode of The Practice.”

853. Disinvited - July 19, 2013

#834. MJ (The Original). – July 18, 2013

You are welcome.

Excellent finds.

I’m an AV geek from way back in ELHI. HEAVEN’S GATE was in a period of my life where the memories are very fuzzy. But I clearly recall believing what the studio released was forced and butchered even if they got the director to do it so I set it in my mind not to see it until I could view a much longer cut. I can’t recall how I did it. It may have been a film class, art house, or some special presentation at a University lecture. But somehow I bounced around SoCal until I saw an acceptable version and I liked it.

FWIW While my current memory of it doesn’t allow me to call up much about the movie I saw, I am of a favorable mind that a Director’s Cut free of a looming deadline and studio memos will probably result in something equally as entertaining as whatever version it was I saw.

854. crazydaystrom - July 19, 2013

Yeah, I want to see the the director’s cut of Heaven’s Gate. Saw the original when it was first released and it was a beautiful mess. Has Cimino e Ed recovered from that?

But back to Star Trek-

NU-VULCAN!! I hope the franchise will address the ramifications of the loss of Vulcan and what’s going on with the remaining Vulcans. I’m a Nimoy fan but I actually didn’t want to see him or any of the old cast back. But his micro-cameo in STID was a waste of even those few seconds, IMO, and not at all satisfying. If you’re going to have him appear then why not have him do something of real consequence? Disappointments inside of disappointments wrapped in disappointments this film was.

The destruction of Vulcan was something i didn’t really like BUT it was one of the most interesting twists ever in the history of StarTrek. I’d like to know more about it than ‘It made Spock suicidal.’

After seeing the latest theatrical trailer for Elysium I’m now convinced it will be THE sci fi movie of the year, in quality if not in box office returns. This was the first of the trailers for this film that showed an amount of humor, which I was happy to see. If it’s anything like Blomkamp’s District 9 it will be a great balance of science fictional ideas, action-adventure, great sfx and subtle humor. In other words, everything I’d hoped STID would be.
I think also that Curazon’s Gravity is going to be a more satisfying film than STID. And this is a Sandra Bullock movie! A sad thing for an old TOS fan who loved ST09 to be able to say.

And interestingly enough I don’t have high hopes for Ender’s Game though I loved the book. Finger’s crossed I’m wrong about that. But EG has a few obstacles to overcome to be a success.

But yeah for me NuVulcan is a MUCH more interesting concept than Nu(old)Khan. I’d like to see more about it on screen.

855. Robman007 - July 19, 2013

850. crazydaystrom …I’m pretty sure we would have seen something that talked about that IF CBS wouldn’t have gotten into a pissing contest with Bad Robot. Remember, there was a novel that would have been about Old Spock and New Vulcan. I’m pretty sure that TV spin off’s would have featured Nimoy as Spock and the colonization of New Vulcan.

Blame CBS for screwing the pooch on this one.

Although, I do think Into Darkness showed the ramifications of what happened at the starfleet level. That’s kinda why they went looking for stuff like the Botany Bay….

856. Robman007 - July 19, 2013

842. Ahmed….

It generally is a good film. They trimmed the film instead of adding new scenes. Took some scenes and put them in different portions of the film.

They added sound effects, which were missing from the original film. The whole Klingon scene is the biggest example. They re-did the Enterprise computer voice. They showed the V’Ger starship, which was massive AND did it based on a cannon outline on the Enterprise Tactical viewer.

All in all, a great upgrade, but it’s still a flawed film. It’s now about 65% dull instead of 95% dull.

857. Robman007 - July 19, 2013

847. Matt …the bullsh!t meter goes off on that one…they are not doing crap to keep the franchise alive..letting Big Bang Theory make bobbleheads with Trek uniforms and QMx RIP people off with $6,000-$10,000 models is not keeping the franchise alive. They just re-release the same DVD’s over and over…the ONLY good merchandise they have authorized is the 1/350 Polar LIghts models and the extended Soundtracks, which were limited edition and also pretty expensive.

No, they have dropped the balled even on the merchandise level. A smart company would have allowed Bad Robot to promote and do the “star wars” model with the new universe while also promoting ALL the Star Trek shows, not just TOS. Don’t be cheap ass dirtbags and go get a Lego license. Pay someone other then Diamond Select to make toys. Let Polar Lights do more then just re-release old AMT Kits. Get someone else other then Heroclix to make your damn boardgames. HELL, Armarillo Design have done a better job marketing Star Fleet Battles then CBS has done of Trek. Their board game along with the licensed A Call to Arms: Star Fleet are far superior to any CRAP CBS licensed out.

If you can’t find anything other then a cheap ass bobblehead in stores for Trek, then CBS has failed. They failed EPIC by getting into the pissing contest with Bad Robot.

858. dmduncan - July 19, 2013

Well what’s flawed with TMP are scenes that ONLY a fan of Star Trek will enjoy, like the way too long flyby of the Enterprise in its space dock.

Cool once, but even a fan gets tired of being dragged through it every time.

V’Ger, however, is an awesome spectacle of a machine.

Except for one huge plot hole. V’GER, an intelligent machine whose god-like power encompasses all that is possible to know in the known universe can’t brush the dirt off the plaque and discover that it’s actual name is VOYAGER?

Never guessed that when the Enterprise took that long, amazing journey to the center of the cloud, they’d find Homer Simpson.

859. James Sawyer - July 19, 2013

Here’s an idea… Do something new. Don’t do the same thing that has already been done, and definitely don’t do it worse.

Trying to do Khan was a mistake. Lying and saying you weren’t doing Khan made it worse. Doing a sub-standard job with Khan and peppering it with “cute” riffs on the original made it even worse than that.

“Into Darkness” was like microwaved leftovers. Sure, it may taste perfectly fine for the folks who weren’t around for the meal the first time… But to those of us who had it when it was originally served, the nuked version tastes hollow and unfulfilling, a sad re-hash of a previously great meal.

So yeah. Don’t do that anymore. If you can’t do it better, don’t do it.

860. Other Guy - July 19, 2013

830. John from Cincinnati

Amazing (to me) that after all this time we still do not have Kirk, Spock and McCoy on the big screen again. Close, but no cigar.

861. MJ (The Original). - July 19, 2013

Robman007,

You are mistaken. There are actually 5 new scenes in the Director’s cut. But yes, the cut 11 scenes from the theatrical cut as well.

862. MJ (The Original). - July 19, 2013

@853 / Robman007

“Matt …the bullsh!t meter goes off on that one…they are not doing crap to keep the franchise alive..letting Big Bang Theory make bobbleheads with Trek uniforms and QMx RIP people off with $6,000-$10,000 models is not keeping the franchise alive. They just re-release the same DVD’s over and over…the ONLY good merchandise they have authorized is the 1/350 Polar LIghts models and the extended Soundtracks, which were limited edition and also pretty expensive.”

Yea, that was my reaction too when I saw Matt’s post. The Blu-Ray effort is cool, but CBS is not offering as any new Trek stories at all.

863. Robman007 - July 19, 2013

859. MJ (The Original)

Nothing that was filmed..it was all storyboard CGI additions or scenes from the home video version.

The new stuff was pretty amazing. The Directors Edition made it easier to watch, but you can polish a turd, but it’s still a turd

864. Robman007 - July 19, 2013

860. MJ (The Original)..

..yeah, CBS does not know how to handle Trek. Paramount at least is giving Trek films a TON of cash to make films, but even they do not know how to properly handle the franchise.

A franchise such as Trek should have Star Wars level merchandizing, not the pathetic amount it gets.

865. Craiger - July 19, 2013

Don’t get me wrong I would like for Trek to return to TV however I keep wondering if Trek is done on TV? Hasn’t everything been done? How many times can Trek be set on a starship exploring the galaxy or on another Enterprise? Once I thought the Romulan War series could be done but would fans compare that to the Dominion War? I guess they could do Kirk at the Academy series but that was show in ST 2009. Or reboot TOS on TV but that was also done in ST 2009.

866. MJ (The Original) - July 19, 2013

@861. The Spock crying for V’ger scene was new (as compared to the theatrical release) — I remember that being new for sure. Plus, I recall another Spock scene earlier on as being not in the theatrical version.

Anyway, I am comparing the Director’s Cut to the Theatrical version. I am not comparing it to the Home Video release.

867. MJ (The Original) - July 19, 2013

Here’s an interesting qeuestion that I have never learned a satisfactory answer to:

Was an Admiral Nogura-Kirk scene ever shot for TMP?

I heard some sources many years ago claim it was shot, but never used. But then others say it was only in the screenplay. But it is a fact that Admiral Nogura’s office was built on the set for the movie.

868. Disinvited - July 19, 2013

Well, it would appear Braga got something right on VOYAGER, no less:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/science/changing-view-on-viruses-not-so-small-after-all.html

Hawking hawks (has “Big Bang Theory” series’ 7th season SPOILERS):

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/comic-con-big-bang-theory-season-7-spoilers-589247

And you thought TMP was long:

http://www.nature.com/news/world-s-slowest-moving-drop-caught-on-camera-at-last-1.13418

869. Disinvited - July 19, 2013

Speaking of which Cassini and MessengerI are going to be doing a Voyager soon:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23373821

Look up, spruce up, and smile:

“Timings for these pictures are 11:49, 12:38, and 13:41 (all GMT) on both Friday and Saturday.

Parts of the Earth not illuminated in the Cassini images, including all of Europe, the Middle East and Central Asia, will appear illuminated in the Messenger pictures. ”

http://thedaytheearthsmiled.com/info.php

“EDT: 5:27-5:42 pm
CDT: 4:27-4:42 pm
MDT: 3:27-3:42 pm
PDT: 2:27-2:42 pm “

870. Robman007 - July 19, 2013

864. MJ (The Original)..yeah, they were both in the Home Video Release.

So, in a technical way, no new scenes in The Directors Cut that any Trek fan had never seen before, except the new CGI sequences.

871. Liberace Trelane - July 19, 2013

Gentle Nerds:

Alex Kurtzman, Roberto Orci Pact with CBS TV Studios:

http://variety.com/2013/tv/news/alex-kurtzman-roberto-orci-pact-with-cbs-tv-studios-1200564183/

Live long and Peace out

872. Other Guy - July 19, 2013

Here’s a contribution on STiD’d BlueRay release.

Although I remain unumpressed. Especially with the cover. Where is McCoy?

http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/178209-star-trek-into-darkness-blu-ray-combo-covers-revealed

873. Marja - July 19, 2013

852 crazyd, Knowing the proclivities of the producers/writers, it’d be Khan seeking revenge on all Vulcans cos Spock beat the crap out of him.

855 Robman, I am so ticked about the pissing contest between CBS/Bad Robot.

Mainly b/c any TV series IMHO should take place in the Altverse established in the new movies – no lengthy, tired canon history to deal with. I love TOS and TNG and some of the other iterations, but would like to see a series based on the new movies.

859 Robman, AWW DARN, I was hoping it was scenes for STiD :)

AGREED CBS DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO HANDLE ST – but I don’t want to see ST reach the annoying level of SWars merchandising. We fen used to call it LuCASHfilms for a reason ….

874. Other Guy - July 19, 2013

How about ANY Star Trek with good writing and ideas.

875. K-7 - July 19, 2013

Wow,

Look at all the great posts in the past day since that pompous troll from the Huffington Post bid his adieu here. People are actually posting about sf and Trek again, instead of having to deal with that bully who was always throwing his weight around here.

This site is suddenly fun and interesting again!

Hurrah!

876. Admiral Archer's Prize Beagle - July 19, 2013

K-7, I agree. The “Bradley nightmare” on Trekmovie.com appears to be over

It feels like Christmas in July. :-)

877. section9 - July 19, 2013

RIGHTY RIGHT>>>

Time for @boborci to hand over his copy of “Save the Cat”.

Secret’s out, Bob.;p

878. Disinvited - July 19, 2013

According to this interview:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/9670/message/1000076268/ST-TMP+information+%28loooooong%29

“We wondered about that scene ourselves, and all our questions were answered when we found the production memo ordering the Admiral Nogura office set not to be constructed. Pieces built for it, however, ended up being part of the Enterprise cargo bay.” – Michael Matessino, Restoration Supervisor

Other “Phase II” sources say that Nogura’s office walls were made for the series but were struck and used for the Rec Room set for the movie. I seem to recall the scene were Kirk informs the crew was supposed to be in Rec Room but was moved to the Cargo Bay during filming?

879. Disinvited - July 19, 2013

“It’s always an important debate and this one hits at the core of what it means to have civil liberties. My hope is that we can actually have a civil discourse, a disagreement with understanding and respect. Last week I watched the news shows and men and women in expensive suits were interrupting one another, rolling their eyes and acting anything but intelligent. And these were among the brightest of our journalists and politicians.

I’m not sure when shock radio emerged and it became commonplace to make mocking and insulting comments. Flipping through the shows this past week it didn’t matter which network I watched; Mr. Snowden is not the biggest threat to our civil liberties, our attitude appears to be.

I see it when I facilitate marriage counseling. The husband or wife will dominate and treat their partner like they have no common sense. Talking over a person has never made for a compelling argument. I can appreciate feeling like you’re right; I feel this all the time. But it is not a license to state opinion as fact or use ridicule instead of communication.

I’m often asked what are the most common problems seen in marriage counseling. Sure, sex, money, parenting, and in-laws are always in the top ten, but a new issue appears to be eclipsing all of the above: Having a mate who is unrelentingly arrogant and rude. Might be helpful if we had role models that displayed more compassion than condescension. Not sure why we seem to be admiring blowhards more than communicators, but this type of relating is filtering into family life and the results are not closer bonds or increased intimacy.”

Mitchell Rosen, M.A., licensed therapist

http://www.pe.com/local-news/columns/mitchell-rosen-headlines/20130630-family-rudeness-is-biggest-threat-to-marriage.ece

880. Other Guy - July 19, 2013

878 Disinvited

Thanks! Read it all!

I see that that interview was posted on Sept 9th, 2001. A more innocent time.

Paramount should do this type of treatment for STV.

881. MJ (The Original). - July 19, 2013

Disinvited,

Wow, that obscure piece of info would seem to answer once and for all my Admiral Nogura questions.

This has been mildly dogging at me for over 30 years.

Thanks!!!

882. Other Guy - July 19, 2013

Looks like someone got off their arse and re-registered TrekMovie!

Perhaps a day late too (19th?).
Ahhh… I am sure all the Trekfans at Register.com would never let TM slip.

Domain Name: TREKMOVIE.COM

Created on…………..: 2006-08-18 17:57:16 GMT
Expires on…………..: 2013-08-18 23:58:15 GMT
Last modified on……..: 2012-08-19 23:58:19 GMT

883. MJ (The Original) - July 19, 2013

@882. Too bad that Anthony had the time to re-register the trademark this week, but he couldn’t find the time to give an update here on what inside information he has been getting lately? Be great to hear something from Anthony, someday soon?

How about a new mission statement for this site:

“The Source for Some Stuff on Trek, When I Feel like Getting Around to It”

:-)

884. Other Guy - July 19, 2013

Refresh the TrekMovie home page, MJ.

There are a few new articles there now. Caught me off guard, too.

885. Matt Wright - July 19, 2013

Dunno what you’re talking about with the domain name, it’s been set to expire on 8/18 for months. Nothing has been renewed as of yet. But I assume (and hope) it’s on auto renewal.

886. MJ (The Original). - July 19, 2013

@883. Yes, Matt Wright is doing a fantastic job.

Just miss Antony’s inside info and commentary. He is hardly involved anymore.

Oh well….

887. Matt Wright - July 19, 2013

Sadly, Tony has been totally MIA since mid-May. Hence why the domain name registration is even an issue. Any updates to the site have been due to Kayla’s hard work getting contributors and my own occasional articles.

888. MJ (The Original) - July 19, 2013

@887. Matt, you have my full support. It is good to know that you and Kayla are stepping in — THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

If you need any volunteers for help, don’t be afraid to reach out to any of us regulars here.

889. MJ (The Original). - July 19, 2013

Matt, your post 887 just got deleted. I was responding (in my above post) to your comment that Anthony was MIA since late may and that you and Kayla are working hard to fill in.

890. MJ (The Original). - July 19, 2013

Wow, that is weird, now your post it back again, Matt.

891. Matt Wright - July 19, 2013

No worries, I edited my wording so I unapproved the initial comment for a few mins. while I reworded things.

892. dmduncan - July 19, 2013

Wow, so, Anthony will contribute an obligatory article or two for the 50th anniversary? That how it’s going to be now?

Why doesn’t he just hand over reigns to the site to someone?

Would anyone want to really take it though?

893. MJ (The Original). - July 19, 2013

@892. DM, according to a web statistics site I found, Trekmovie.com generates $90,000 in annual revenue.

I hope that Matt and Kayla are getting a bit of this? It would be a same if Anthony is just pocketing this, less expenses, and using volunteer staff who don’t at least get some time expenses or article fees paid.

894. dmduncan - July 19, 2013

@893: Wow. That ‘s not bad. He ‘d better be paying them, especially since he’s not doing much of anything for the site anymore.

895. Aurore - July 20, 2013

“…I wish I’d gotten the Criterion Blu-Ray of The Third Man…”
__________

“Nobody thinks in terms of human beings. Governments don’t. Why should we? they talk about the people and the proletariat, I talk about the suckers and the mugs.
It’s the same thing. They have their five-year plans. So have I.”

…Truth be told, in movies, I really like my evil men to be ruthless!

I almost wanted him to make it in the end……who am I kidding ?!
I wanted him to make it!

As I was saying on another thread of late ; everyone (me) loves a good villain…

896. Aurore - July 20, 2013

895. Aurore – July 20, 2013
“…I wish I’d gotten the Criterion Blu-Ray of The Third Man…”
__________

I do not own either version of the movie, by the way.

The last time I watched it was some months ago, online.

897. Craiger - July 20, 2013

Anthony should turn this site over to Matt and Kayla.

898. Craiger - July 20, 2013

MJ, funny line, post #883.

899. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

895. Aurore

As I was saying on another thread of late ; everyone (me) loves a good villain

***

And Harry Lime is as good as villainy gets. A villain so nice they killed him twice. I too wanted Harry to make it in the end.

That’s one of my favorite movies. I like it even more than Casablanca.

900. Matt Wright - July 20, 2013

@893 – Oh it’s totally volunteer.

You guys still don’t seem to quite get it. Tony is MIA, he’s unreachable, we cannot reach him despite many attempts via different communication methods. So he’s literally not involved with the site in any way currently. He hasn’t even looked in on the site AFAIK since May. We have no idea if/when he’ll resurface.

901. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

@900. Wow, I’m really sorry to hear that, Matt. Is this different though then in the past, when he would take a couple months off from articles here? Were you able to get in touch with him in those instances?

902. Matt Wright - July 20, 2013

Yes aside from one previous period of a few months last year he has normally always been available. In the past if he’s going to be away he has told us.

Also I just wanted to clarify that Tony has no “day job”, his job is TrekMovie and his other Trek projects (like consulting on the JJ’verse comics, etc.) So Trekmovie really is his main source of income AFAIK.

903. William Bradley - July 20, 2013

And another shoe drops, as the beat goes on …

904. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

@903

Huh?

905. Basement Blogger - July 20, 2013

Thanks Matt for updating us on what’s happening with Trekmovie. Did anyone see if Anthony Pascale, our leader, was near Tholian space? :-) Kidding aside, I hope Anthony is okay.

I hope this is not the end. I discovered this site when researching the issue of whether Star Trek 2009 wiped out over forty years of the franchise. In an interview with Bob Orci, this site explained that time travel would be handled with parallel universe theory. That was very helpful.b

Then when researching of what happened to the video game Secret of Vulcan Fury, this site had an interview with the game story’s author, D.C. Fontana. Found out she wanted to do something with the story since the video game went belly up . She wanted to turn it into a novel Good luck D.C. with CBS. Link.

http://trekmovie.com/2007/08/16/dorothy-fontana-on-new-comics-new-novel-canon-ds9-ent-new-movie/

This site has been a great source for all things Star Trek. Not just the J.J. Abrams movie. Let’s hope it lives long and prospers.

906. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

900. Matt Wright – July 20, 2013

Do you know of anyone who IS in contact with him?

907. Marja - July 20, 2013

906 dm, I’m sure if Matt knew someone, he’d have asked the person to pass the word about site expiration to Anthony by now. So I’m thinking either Anthony got sick of the complaining about him by some folks here, or is taking a much-needed “breather” after all the frenetic posting in May.

However Matt’s words at 902 beg the question, what in the world is AP doing for money to survive?

Hmmm maybe he found a job where people don’t bombard him with angry posts …?

908. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

Myself, possessed of no information as to these proceedings, speculate it is likely just Paramount legal clamping down on leaks as they map the next film’s marketing campaign. They are probably wisely aiming not to have Disney broadside their domestic publicity this time around – possibly even planning on returning the favor, not that they’re likely to reveal that to anyone.

Anthony, lacking in the resources to legally challenge their NDAs, has probably wisely decided to withdraw rather than accidentally draw their wrath by unintentionally leaking something Paramount regards as vital.

At least, I’d much rather it be that than some manner of ill fate has befallen, Anthony.

909. Ahmed - July 20, 2013

@ 902. Matt Wright – July 20, 2013

“Also I just wanted to clarify that Tony has no “day job”, his job is TrekMovie and his other Trek projects (like consulting on the JJ’verse comics, etc.) So Trekmovie really is his main source of income AFAIK.”

wow, if that is the case, what he doing going AWOL ?
He should at least leave an emergency contact with Matt.

910. WillH85 - July 20, 2013

I’m all for a lower budget. Time to rely more on existing models and sets and go back to what made the original and TNG (And DS9, etc.) great, awesome story telling. You don’t need a budget for that. Seems like after a 3rd movie going back to TV could be a great option, though I’m not sure exactly how they’d do that. They’d need a better front-runner that understands Trek better and I’m all for Ronald D. Moore for that.

911. K-7 - July 20, 2013

Re: Marja

What a shame that you are using this worrisome situation to try to “score points” here against the posters you are always hating on.

Grow up!

912. Craiger - July 20, 2013

I thought maybe Anthony started his own business and that is why he is not here updating the site. In the site info on whois lookup it shows Pascale Strategic.

913. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

Marja and K-7,

In times like this on this site, we all need to pull together. Enough please from both of you with whining and petty bickering.

914. MJ (The Original) - July 20, 2013

@909 “I’m all for a lower budget. Time to rely more on existing models and sets and go back to what made the original and TNG (And DS9, etc.) great, awesome story telling.”

Interesting you mentioned TNG prominently here, as it took TNG 3 seasons to get to great storytelling.

I thought ST 2009 was pretty good storytrelling. STID was OK, but not nearly as good a story as Trek 2009.

At the risk of a sports analogy, some coaches are great for turning around a team (i.e. JJ bringing ST back in a big way), but many times you then need a different kind of coach to take you to a championship — i.e., let’s bring in David Yates — a proven talent at raising the bar in franchise sequels.

And forget the lower budget nonsense. That has nothing to do with the quality of the story. Go see Empire Strikes Back, Terminator 2, The Godfather Part II, Toy Story II, The Dark Knight, Lethal Weapon 2, The Bourne Supremacy, and Aliens, and then explain this to “theory” to me again, please.. :-))

915. crazydaystrom - July 20, 2013

2013-

- Star Trek Into Darkness…
- An Asiana Airline plane crashes on landing in San Francisco…
- An over-zealous doofus gets away with the murder of a seventeen year old (well,the manslaughter of)…
- A spacesuit spritzses an astronaut mid-spacewalk…

My God!! Will there never be an end to Bad Robot’s evil machinations?!?
I shiver!!

The line must be drawn HERE!!!

916. Smoking Robot - July 20, 2013

STID was a soul-less piece of crap from beginning to end. It was a series of stunts and gags tied together.

The re-tread of the scenes from TWOK ….. oh my GOD what WERE THEY THINKING?

GET JJ OUT, that’s the first thing. Second, LOWER THE BUDGET. Fewer big stunts, fewer special effects, MORE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT and an original story idea wouldn’t hurt either.

It is shocking how bad this movie was.

917. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

FWIW last year Michael Hinman claimed:

“And then dammit, TrekMovie is getting reports from the set of “Star Trek 2″ from writers who are paying Anthony Pascale for the chance to do work for him.”

http://www.airlockalpha.com/node/9055/scifriday-digital-domain-needs-a-different-approach.html

918. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

FWIW last year Michael Hinman claimed the reporters pay AP:

http://www.airlockalpha.com/node/9055/scifriday-digital-domain-needs-a-different-approach.html

919. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

@914

What is your regular posting name here? You sound very familiar.

920. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

@915. Wow, if that is true, then that is very depressing.

921. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

#915. Disinvited – July 20, 2013

After reading that a couple more times, I think Hinman is just ranting about the concept and imagining others will rip his idea off?

922. crazydaystrom - July 20, 2013

914. Smoking Robot
“STID was a soul-less piece of crap from beginning to end.”

Though it was a major disappointment for me I wouldn’t go that far.
But I understand where you’re coming from SR.

” It was a series of stunts and gags tied together.”

Pretty much but I’d say it also has dashes of some Trek and hence not TOTAL crap.

“…LOWER THE BUDGET. Fewer big stunts, fewer special effects, MORE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT and an original story idea wouldn’t hurt either.”

I concur!

923. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

I don’t want to assume the worst, but I hope AP is not sitting in Europe this summer, laughing at all of us, and collecting the monthly recurring income from this site and his other internet/consulting gigs. etc. etc.

Maybe that is really how internet capitalism works?

924. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

@919

A suspicious person might wonder if you are having a conversation with yourself. However, I am not a suspicious person.

925. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

#917. MJ (The Original). – July 20, 2013

I don’t think it is true. I now think it is just some sort of rant. But what an odd way to go about it?

926. Craiger - July 20, 2013

MJ, how much can you earn just off of the ads on this site?

927. Red Dead Ryan - July 20, 2013

Sheesh, I can’t believe some here want lower budgeted Trek movies.

Me? I appreciate the high-budgets that Paramount has given Bad Robot. We’ve gotten so far two epic-scale movies. Two of the most successful in the entire franchise, in fact.

I don’t want to go back to the days of tv actors-as-directors, recycling and redressing sets, plodding storylines and cheap special/visual effects.

No thank you, ma’am.

928. Craiger - July 20, 2013

If that is what Anthony really wants to do then he should really take down “The Source For Everything New In Trek.” He could just through up a couple of articles about the next movie and that’s it. If that’s going to be the case I can just go to movie news blogs for that info.

929. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

#915. Disinvited – July 20, 2013

My apologies to this site’s writers and Anthony Pascale for letting that dog wag me.

Although, I think Hinman says he thinks eventually the chickens will come home to roost, before he does that he asks would having “students” pay to do the work really BE THAT bad?

Is it really that different from the well used (Supreme Court recently ruled illegal) “unpaid” interns the entertainment industry relies upon and the blackballing threat employed to prevent those interns from collecting what the Supremes say those interns have a right to?

Since that ruling was recent, wouldn’t this student pays thing from last year actually cushion the industry from any union organizing to get interns their pay? That is, isn’t a paying student quite a different thing from an unpaid laborer?

930. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

@923. This site brings in about $90,000 in ad revenue annually.

931. Craiger - July 20, 2013

MJ, is that determined by the number of hits it gets? If so, if Anthony stops updating the site the number of clicks will start to dwindle and not that money would come in? Not wanting to sound mean but I wonder if Anthony takes his viewers for granted counting on them being here just to chat and knows that?

932. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

Craiger, you can find all the stats at w3snoopDOTcom, and enter Trekmovie.com. I can successfully paste the link here, so I spelled it out.

You can see a chart that shows remarkable consistency of hits per month, with peaks late last year and in April/May this year as expected. The one worrisome thing is the site hits have just started to nosedive this past month.

933. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

#926. Disinvited – July 20, 2013

Further research shows that the recent ruling was that of a District Court that entertainment internships meet the 6 point criteria of an earlier Supreme Court ruling that says it fails the test of classification as an “unpaid” internship and are thus laborers so misclassified must be paid which eventually lead to this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130703-907878.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

934. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

920. MJ (The Original). – July 20, 2013

I was thinking the same thing. 90 grand means this ain’t a hobby site and you pay the help.

Suddenly my sympathy for AP’s break-time needs is gone.

935. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

Its entering comparing the Trek web sites on w3snoopDOTcom. In terms of annual revenue, Trekmove has been the king, with $90K of annual revenue, trailer by Trekweb and Trektoday, with about $30K, and newcomer Trekcore with about $20K. However, it looks like Trektoday may be picking up market share from Trekmovie if you look at the very recent hits per month trend graphs.

936. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

He’s doing a whirlwind pizza tasting tour of all Italy while we make this un-updated place 90% of the reason to come here.

Maybe he figures we’ll have a party on whatever thread without him, so why bother posting new stuff?

937. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

If I had a Trek news site I’d make the tag line: “Regular news updates you CAN COUNT ON.”

938. Ahmed - July 20, 2013

From w3snoopDOTcom report:

“The website trekmovie.com is expected to be earning an estimated $248 USD on a daily basis. If trekmovie.com was to be sold it would possibly be worth $90,438 USD (based on the daily revenue potential of the website over a 12 month period). According to our google pagerank analysis, the url trekmovie.com currently has a pagerank of 0/10. Our records indicate that trekmovie.com receives an estimated 56,982 unique visitors each day – a crazy amount of traffic! ”

56,982 unique visitors each day !! Is that even possible ?? I don’t see that many posters here :)

939. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

It’s not just that the site is not active enough but he’s not using the site enough to be an activist for Star Trek, annoying people at CBS for interviews about the future of Star Trek, for example. Pushing the idea. Coming up with articles and stats that make the idea attractive.

Bob and Alex just got a deal with CBS. Given the relationship among Bob, Alex, CBS, and Star Trek, why isn’t that a special story on this site?

940. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

@935. I agree completely. I don’t get it???

941. Ahmed - July 20, 2013

How about we all send emails to AP asking, politely, about the status of trekmovie.com ?

Maybe when he get tons of emails from us, he might come out & inform us of what going on & what is the future of the site!

AP email address is tonyp [AT] trekmovie [DOT] com

942. Craiger - July 20, 2013

Ahmed, doubt that will work. When Anthony would come back from vacation before he would never explain about the long breaks because I think he thinks he takes us for granted and thinks we will allways be here because we are just happy when he posts news. No one ever questions the long breaks. However if I remember correctly if someone did that he wouldn’t respond anyway.

943. Ahmed - July 20, 2013

Craiger, yeah, I remember couple times after he came back, he won’t even acknowledge any question about the long breaks.

Guess then we will find out in August when the expiration date come, if he is still interested in the site or not.

944. Craiger - July 20, 2013

Ahmed, like Matt said he could have Trekmovie on auto renewal. I read that they also email the person a few times letting them know the site renewal is up. I wonder what happens after a site expires does it go down and go to a blank page? Then its for sale and someone can buy it?

945. Ahmed - July 20, 2013

Craiger,

WordPress policy concerning domain expiration: First they gave the owner a grace period for about two weeks where he can renew the domain at the regular price. If this is not done, the owner can still renew the domain but will pay additional fees & the risk is that in this period, the site is put up for sale.

You can check the complete policy at WordPress site.

946. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

I don’t know how it works anymore. If it expires I expect the domain will be up for sale at a premium enough price that we won’t be seeing articles on the Trekmovie brand for a long time. He’s getting alerts about it right now and he’ll keep getting them, and then even after the expiration date he’ll probably have a grace period. I don’t think he’ll lose control of the option to renew the following day. That’s what I seem to remember, anyway.

947. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

Well the BLOG is WordPress, but is he also hosting on WordPress? AP owns the Trekmovie domain, and he can either point the WP URL to Trekmovie or host the blog on a server of his choice. In any case, renewal of the Trekmovie domain is not necessarily dependent on WordPress, though they may register domains for you. I don’t know that they do that, however.

948. Ahmed - July 20, 2013

@943. dmduncan

“Well the BLOG is WordPress, but is he also hosting on WordPress? AP owns the Trekmovie domain, and he can either point the WP URL to Trekmovie or host the blog on a server of his choice. ”

You are correct, the server is not hosted on WordPress but on bluehostDOTcom.

949. MJ - July 20, 2013

Guys, do you have to file as a nonprofit corporation to do a Trek or any other media website associated with trademark material like Star Trek?

950. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

I don’t think so MJ. Everything is either trademarked or copyrighted anyway. As long as you practice Fair Use you can report whatever.

951. Ahmed - July 20, 2013

MJ, here is a link to an article that might answer your question. From what I read so far, it is a bit complicated.

Media Digital Law: Using the Trademarks of Others

http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/using-trademarks-others

952. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

I think if you are thinking about doing a Star Trek news reporting site, your best protection is to develop the same relationships with the right people at CBS and Paramount that fan series productions have. You’ll be making money from advertising, like Anthony, and giving them free publicity.

The image in Trekmovie’s header is a cropped section of a screensaver.

Don’t know what the rights are on that.

953. dmduncan - July 20, 2013

Excuse me, it’s a WALLPAPER not a screensaver

954. crazydaystrom - July 20, 2013

921. MJ (The Original). -
“@919

A suspicious person might wonder if you are having a conversation with yourself. However, I am not a suspicious person.”

That suspicious person would be wrong MJ (The Original).
False assumptions yeild erroneous conclusions.

955. crazydaystrom - July 20, 2013

921. MJ (The Original). -

And I have to ask why, MJ?

956. MJ (The Original). - July 20, 2013

Well then, like I said, it’s a good thing I am not a suspicious person.

:-)

957. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

Keachick – rose pinenut,

Given the breaking news on the NZ earthquake, I pray you and yours are well?

958. Disinvited - July 20, 2013

Just a reminder, there’s an “about” tab at the top of the page:

http://trekmovie.com/about/

959. Ahmed - July 20, 2013

@954. Disinvited

” Just a reminder, there’s an “about” tab at the top of the page:
http://trekmovie.com/about/

Well, I think the page need to be updated, specially the trekmovie staff info

960. ironhyde - July 21, 2013

#33 Vultan

Funny enough, I would argue if there was one critical change I would have made to Skyfall, it would be casting Connery as Bond’s old man ;) So in answer to your question… “Not really. But in a way, yeah, kinda.”

961. ironhyde - July 21, 2013

#200 – Thanks for that, Killamarshtrek!!

Sad to see the movie’s main villain needs an additional set of comics to explain himself … I personally thought STID’s villain was cardboard and completely devoid of character. He had a cool voice. He looked sinister. But his motivations were purely exposition and his purpose and identity only came anywhere near coherent through on my knowledge from elsewhere about him — which actually, in a few cases, conflicted seriously with what I was seeing.

Anyway, I’m glad they want another $10 from me to find out what lies beneath that cardboard cut-out :P

962. Marja - July 21, 2013

910 K-7, I’m simply expressing an opinion. “What a shame” it is different from yours?
I’m puzzled by your words that I’ve ever “hated on” anyone in this site. If I’ve expressed opinions contrary to yours and that constitutes “hating” then I regret having upset you. Words/phrases that I used that could be considered inflammatory? “Maybe AP is sick of SOME OF the people complaining” and ” [got a job where] people don’t bombard him with angry posts” … I can see that possibly this upset SOME people b/c I was so “hateful” about it. A reminder, “SOME” does not equal “ALL”, and if you’re feeling sensitive about such words, I can’t help that. As you probably do yourself, I consider my opinion reasonable. And I’m quite grown, thank you.

MJ, I don’t believe I was “whining”. And this is my only post that will answer K-7 because the orer to “grow up” is one I’ve considered rather insulting whenever I’ve seen it here posted by ANYONE. I won’t answer any more of K-7′s opinions regarding myself.

924 Red Dead Ryan “Sheesh, I can’t believe some here want lower budgeted Trek movies. Me? I appreciate the high-budgets that Paramount has given Bad Robot. We’ve gotten so far two epic-scale movies. Two of the most successful in the entire franchise, in fact.”

Were they successful solely because of large-scale “epic” disasters depicted in the film? I could have done quite well without that; I can see any number of other “summer popcorn movies” with that stuff. I find it boring and unoriginal. Like you I have no desire to see “tv actors-as-directors, recycling and redressing sets, plodding storylines and cheap special/visual effects.” But I do hope to see more of our characters wrestling with moral questions, fewer giant disaster minutes, and more time spent on science fiction and exploration that made “Star Trek” and its cast of characters so memorable and influential.

Question for website-knowledgable folk: does $90K constitute earnings exclusive to AP, or does he have to pay something to Paramount for exclusive EARLY access to their news? Cos man, $90K, whew, to me that’s a really great income.

963. Craiger - July 21, 2013

I wonder if the less hits on Trekmovie will reduce Anthony’s income off this site if us regulars wont come here anymore due to the lack of updates? Or if Anthony figures he can just throw up a few articles a month to keep us clicking on the site to make it look like to advertisers that this site is still profitable for them to be here? Do advertisers see the number of reduced hits and then decide to stop advertising here?

964. Red Dead Ryan - July 21, 2013

I seem to recall a couple of years ago Anthony revealing that his main job was in advertising, and that explained a long absence between articles. I believe it was the first extended quiet period around the holiday season.

Now if its true that this site is his true job, and he is earning $90,000 a year in ad revenue as his income, then something stinks here.

I actually hope that the true reason is health/family issues. Not that I would wish those problems on anybody, but those reasons would be legitimate priorities instead of “gee, I hate the constant whining/fighting on this site” (which mostly goes on when he’s NOT here, btw) or deciding to hitchhike through Europe, tasting all the food, and attending the royal baby ceremony in London. That would be pretty lame, and unfair to Matt, who is working hard to bring us what he can and is holding downing down the fort.

965. Red Dead Ryan - July 21, 2013

A bit of correction:

“I actually hope that the true reason is health/family issues. Not that I would wish those problems on anybody, but AT LEAST those reasons would be legitimate priorities instead of “gee, I hate the constant whining/fighting on this site” (which mostly goes on when he’s NOT here, btw) or deciding to hitchhike through Europe, tasting all the food, and attending the royal baby ceremony in London all on a whim and not telling any of the TrekMovie staff. That would be pretty lame, and unfair to Matt, who is working hard to bring us what he can and is clearly holding downing down the fort in Anthony’s extended absence.”

966. dmduncan - July 21, 2013

Advertisers “see” the number of clicks on their advertisements, not to the site. Clicks to advertisements is generally what you get paid for, but enormously trafficked sites like Drudge may have special advertiser relationships.

967. Curious Cadet - July 21, 2013

@939. Ahmed,
“Guess then we will find out in August when the expiration date come, if he is still interested in the site or not.”

Let me get in on this baseless speculation …

I think it’s pretty obvious that Paramount has told AP that they were so dissapointed in STID’s performance, and with Abrams jumping ship to Star Wars, they are scrapping all plans for future films and turning the film franchise back over to CBS, because nobody can do Star Trek as well as Abrams, and the franchise will only continue to lose money without him.

Since TM was started for the sole purpose of promoting the new films, it’s clear that there is no reason to maintain the site, and AP’s most likely lining up his next job. After all, the site’s star visitor, Bob Orci doesn’t even show up here anymore.

Well it was fun while it lasted.

/s

968. Craiger - July 21, 2013

Curious Cadet you are forgetting Trekmovie wasn’t just soley about the movies. You forget the sites tagline – “The Source For Everything New In Trek.” However you do have an interesting theory, if that is the case why doesn’t Anthony just come right out and say that? Announce this site is closing because of your theory and he can no longer report on the films? If that is the case then Anthony has also grown tired of reporting other Trek news.

969. Craiger - July 21, 2013

Also the official site, Trekweb and Trektoday are still reporting Trek news. Trekweb even has a new news editor.

970. dmduncan - July 21, 2013

Yeah, it’s not that there are no stories to do or no news to report. Trekmovie is just running leaderless. I’m kind of curious why the other Trek news sites aren’t taking this as an opportunity to up their game.

Don’t know where the other sites are based. If you’re not in LA that could limit the kinds of stories you are able to get.

971. dmduncan - July 21, 2013

NOT a big fan of either Trekweb or Trektoday’s websites. Trekmovie blows them away for ease of use.

Trekmovie has a very simple front page with headline stories you can scroll and click on. Not a lot of clutter makes it easy to navigate and find the story you’re looking for. Instead of confusing people with categories, Trekmovie features product releases the same way it does other news, i.e., in stories.

And the talkbacks are simple to use with no limitations. While that encourages impersonators, it also lets people eaily contribute feedback. I think AP’s practice of not filtering comments, except for spam, and permabanning boborci impersonaters and sockpuppeteers helps to create a robust comment section which itself is a huge draw.

Combine that with insider relationships and the exclusive stories that come from that, and I think you get the recipe for Trekmovie’s success.

972. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@ 966. dmduncan – July 21, 2013

“Don’t know where the other sites are based. If you’re not in LA that could limit the kinds of stories you are able to get.”

Yeah, I was thinking about that when MJ mentioned the possibility of creating a Trek news site.

For any entertainment site/blog to be successful, I think it will need to be based in LA, NY or Vancouver to be close to the media sources.

Of course, you can get in touch with the sources from another city by emails & phones but there is really no substitute for human contact to build up credible sources.

973. SoonerDave - July 21, 2013

dmduncan,

With all due respect, its the format here that’s got me contributing less than I did in the past – not that I’m any all-timer by any means. This site, if its going to survive, IMHO desperately needs an overhaul. It needs a real message forum, like vBulletin, some kind of account/login authentication to stop (or least give a chance for mods) to stem the trolling and put and end to some of the nonsense, and particularly to give it some kind of mobile presence. A story like this one with 900+ comments is unusable on a mobile device.

Just my $0.02. And, by the same token, if Anthony is of a mind to just let this place expire next month, then obviously the other stuff isn’t relevant anymore.

I generally tend to fall into the camp of letting AP run the site as he deems fit, but I think it would be apropos if he would consider offering a “state of the site” message, and at least discuss in some vein the conspicuous absences, future plans (if any), and where he thinks sites like these (and trekweb, etc) have to expand/improve going forward.

LIke I said, just my $0.02.

974. Craiger - July 21, 2013

I am finally starting to realize Anthony is never going to give a status of the site update. He never does when he used to come back from break nor did he respond to anyone who asked why he is taking long breaks. We will know the status of this site if it not renewed. I think their is a grace period of thirty days after the expiration date so I think Trekmovie will still be up after 8-18, so people might think Anthony renewed it. I do think its rude Anthony not giving us a status of site update. I can understand if their is family/health issues but I am not holding my breath anymore for a status of site update.

975. Craiger - July 21, 2013

Dmduncan – Trekweb is supposed to be getting a facelift with its new news reporter Gabe Koerner. Not sure how soon that will happen. Internet Explorer doesn’t work well with Trekweb I get javascript errors. I also liked how Trekmovie had all the Treknews from other sources all in one so you didn’t have to go to multiple Trek news sites.

976. Disinvited - July 21, 2013

#963. Curious Cadet – July 21, 2013

This site’s About tab does say:

“TrekMovie.com was launched July 15th 2006 (as The Trek XI Report), the same day it was announced that JJ Abrams had finalized a 5-year deal with Paramount Pictures which included a new Star Trek film as his first project.”

And, as there was Trek movie news before that date, does imply this site was created expressly to trumpet Abrams’ TREK.

Another factor that could be in play is that the NYT reporting makes it very clear Moonves gave Paramount a deadline to get the first Abrams’ TREK rolling. It’s possible the STID delays may have violated some similar deadline still in play in their arrangement and strengthened CBS’ hand? Come to think of it, the NYT reporting makes it more than clear that changing the merchandising in any way would throw the whole thing out the window as well.

Is CBS going to put the Trek movie license up for bids or is there some other film company willing to meet CBS’ price and required concessions waiting in the wings?

977. Craiger - July 21, 2013

#972 – Maybe Paramount is done with the movies because of Abrams going SW? Also because of that CBS merchandising feud and turning Trek over to Orci and Kurtzman since they inked that new CBS deal and Trek is headed back to TV with them in charge?

978. Craiger - July 21, 2013

However Orci and Kurtzman did write STID so if Paramount didn’t like STID ticket sales then why give Trek to Orci and Kurtzman. However I do like their Hawaii 5-0 series and Sleepy Hollow looks interesting.

979. Disinvited - July 21, 2013

#973. Craiger – July 21, 2013

Merchandising’s NOT a feud:

According to this reporting:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/movies/26itzk.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all

It’s the foundation of the arrangement whereby Moonves did not exercise his option to strip Paramount of all rights to make new film Trek. If Paramount or any of its agents can be shown to have bad faith in honoring CBS’ merchandising rights or can be shown to be acting in bad faith by seeking to broach CBS’ merchandising rights, well, the whole thing falls apart which would appear to strip Paramount of its new movie making rights under the “arrangement.”

Depending on how Les’ legal beagles can represent JJ’s attempts at exercising Trek merchandising options, Paramount may have no option but to drop Bad Robot from future Trek film productions and put it all on SD. They could probably still commission a script from TSC or even hire Kurtzman to direct but JJ and Bad Robot would be out.

980. dmduncan - July 21, 2013

969. SoonerDave – July 21, 2013

dmduncan,

With all due respect, its the format here that’s got me contributing less than I did in the past – not that I’m any all-timer by any means. This site, if its going to survive, IMHO desperately needs an overhaul. It needs a real message forum, like vBulletin, some kind of account/login authentication to stop (or least give a chance for mods) to stem the trolling and put and end to some of the nonsense, and particularly to give it some kind of mobile presence. A story like this one with 900+ comments is unusable on a mobile device.

***

I disagree. I think a robust comments section is an indicator of the health of the site, and Trekmovie’s comments are astronomical. Those other places? 0. 15. 24. That’s the kind of numbers their stories get. Comments are dead there. There’s no conversation.

The format of this place just plain works. The problem is not the format, it’s the leadership. There is none.

As far as mobile access is concerned—how many sites actually get to 900+ comments to begin with? Even so, I have no problems at all accessing Trekmovie threads with 2000 comments using iOS. The problem with threads that long on my iPad is having to scroll forever to get down to the bottom of the page which is going to be the problem for any thread on any site that has that many comments.

No idea how this site loads on Android since I don’t use that platform.

981. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

Box office this weekend didn’t bring any good news for Pacific Rim, the movie made only $68 million in 10 days. Guess there go any chance for a sequel.

And I finally saw World War Z, it is an ok movie. Not really great, but the Israeli sequence & the airplane were the most interesting scenes in the movie.

And I think they probably should have kept the Red Square scene in the movie instead of that tedious 3rd act.

But can’t deny it was exciting to see Peter Capaldi aka “Malcolm Tucker” in the movie :)

982. dmduncan - July 21, 2013

971. Craiger – July 21, 2013

Dmduncan – Trekweb is supposed to be getting a facelift with its new news reporter Gabe Koerner. Not sure how soon that will happen. Internet Explorer doesn’t work well with Trekweb I get javascript errors. I also liked how Trekmovie had all the Treknews from other sources all in one so you didn’t have to go to multiple Trek news sites.

***

I don’t know what sort of template Trekweb and Trektoday use but a proprietary design is NOT the best way to go if you don’t have a fortune in development money.

When I had TKR I had a proprietary design because I wanted it to be able to do unique things and I’m a hard head and didn’t follow the advice of my developer who urged me to follow a Gawker template for ease of use and updating. Part of the thrill for me was building a site that had unique features, because I’m an innovator. That created SEO difficulties which explains the traffic problems I had.

(However, I did figure out a way to fix the SEO problems, but by then I didn’t have the development money or the help I needed to do the kind of ground-breaking research I wanted to do on Forteana, which is what my site focused on. I had the leadership skills and vision to do the kinds of stories that would shock the hell out of people, but I ran out of money, and those kinds of stories are expensive and sometimes potentially dangerous to do.)

The WordPress template is an excellent inexpensive way to build a quality site. If Trekweb is revamping they ought to move to an uncomplicated WP template like AP is using. I would duplicate much of what he is doing except the tag line. Mine would be:

The RELIABLE source for everything new in Trek.

;-)

983. Basement Blogger - July 21, 2013

Well, I posted this thought and it got deleted so I’ll try again without the link. Trust me it’s not controversial.

Maybe we should search Tholian space for Anthony. Kidding aside, i hope Anthony is okay.

I found this site when researching the time travel question for Star Trek 2009. I thought the movie got rid of forty years of Star Trek but Bob Orci in an interview on this site explained that what happened was the creation of a parallel universe. I’ve looked to this site for information on Star Trek since.

I’m also grateful for Anthony’s interviews and research that answered other questions for me. I always wondered if anything would be done with the abandoned video game, Secret of Vulcan Fury. On August 16, 2007, Anthony posted an interview with D.C. Fontana who wrote the story. She wants to make it into a novel but CBS is sitting on it. (Sorry, no link. Could be the reason why my post was deleted.)

This is a great site for all things Star Trek. It has covered all iterations of Star Trek not just the recent movies. I hope Trekmovie lives long and prospers.

984. Keachick - July 21, 2013

#953 – Thank you. We are fine as we live in Auckland.

The earthquake, along with the ongoing aftershocks, occurred in Wellington (lower North Island) and Blenheim (upper South Island). Fortunately there have been no deaths or injuries reported, just a lot of damage to some buildings, properties, cracks on roads etc.

The quake registered 6.5 on the richter scale. The epicentre was shallow, only 10km deep and happened off the coast of the town of Blenheim in the eastern part of Cook Strait (I believe) – not really big, but not small either.

For as long as I have been alive, remember – Wellington has not only been the political capital of NZ, but the tremor capital. Little quakes have been occurring there since (it seems) forever…to the point where few, if any, get publicity. It’s *normal* to be a little shaken and stirred…

I just hope that this is not the start of worse to come. Last time, Christchurch suffered its first earthquake on 4 September 2010, with no deaths and very few injuries, but five months later on 22 February 2011, another quake hit and it was a whole different story…:(

985. Keachick - July 21, 2013

It is a little concerning that Anthony Pascale cannot be contacted at all. I am going to assume that he is doing fine, but still…

Anyway, I am glad that others like Matt Wright and Kayla Lacovino have stepped in to help keep the site going while Anthony does what he does.

986. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@977. I don’t get why Pacific Rim is not a big hit.. I mean its like Transformers, only with more thought and a better story. You would think it would be making a shitload of money. It was a lot of fun if you liked the old Japanese monster movies.

This does not bode well at all for the Godzilla reboot.

The movie-going audience seems very fickle and unpredictable this year. Movie quality, and marketing campaigns this year seem to have little relationship to how many people see a given movie. Very weird year.

987. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@976 “The format of this place just plain works. The problem is not the format, it’s the leadership. There is none.”

I agree, DM. That, and the lack of consistent info and breaking stories that we used to get from Anthony. I mean, did Anthony ever not provided an update from Comicon before this year?

Their is no leadership an d the content is not what it used to be. The interface if just fine, although I will acknowledge that Trekcore’s cutting edge interface looks really nice.

988. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@963 “I think it’s pretty obvious that Paramount has told AP that they were so dissapointed in STID’s performance, and with Abrams jumping ship to Star Wars, they are scrapping all plans for future films and turning the film franchise back over to CBS, because nobody can do Star Trek as well as Abrams, and the franchise will only continue to lose money without him.”

LOL. Where do you come up with this shit, dude? :-))

989. Craiger - July 21, 2013

Maybe Anthony did find another job where he makes more than what he gets from this site if this was he soul source of income? Maybe now he figures he doesn’t have to be here all the time to make money off of it and Trekmovie would be just a secondary source of income?

990. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

I like Trekmovie format, it is easier to read & follow a given story. Although, it might be a good idea to have a sign-in system to prevent imposters & spammers as well.

991. Craiger - July 21, 2013

Plus maybe the new job has more hours to where he can’t be here anymore and wants to enjoy his time off more than posting on Trekmovie?

992. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@991. Craiger, maybe it’s just my greediness, but if I had a side job that brought it $90K per year, I would at least throw in a weekly input to the site and do some minimal leadership to protect the annual number of hits.

993. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

Did Paramount made any announcement at the Comic Con this year about their plans for Star Trek ?

It is really annoying when I see other major studios announcing their plans 2 or 3 years down the road & nothing from Paramount.

994. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

Wait, I made a little post about comic con & Paramount & it got deleted !!!

Why ? Is Paramount off limits or something ? !!!

995. Matt Wright - July 21, 2013

Was gone overnight doing family stuff… Let me see if I can answer a few questions, etc.

TrekMovie being Anthony’s main income source:
I do not know this for a fact, but I believe so. When he’s active in the site he has been available pretty much any time I’ve needed to contact him. He’s almost always been free to run to cover any press conference they hold, etc. So I believe his various Trek ventures are paying his bills, but I do not know this for sure. He’s a very private person, he’s only ever discussed Trek topics with us.

Do we know anyone that is in contact with Anthony?

No, we do not, trust me we have tried very hard, Kayla has been running down some known acquaintances at Paramount and Bad Robot. No one has heard from him. As I said, we’re getting worried about him at this point.

About domain name registration:

I am not aware of how Anthony has his billing setup, so I have no idea, but it could very well be set to auto-renew next month. If not, I don’t know if there is a grace period, but I don’t think it’s long if at all, there are examples of people swooping in and registering domains in the few hours where the owners forgot and basically extorting a high price for it. So yes sadly, the domain name could go back in the pool and anyone looking to poach it (for lack of a better term) could. Since Anthony is the owner, I don’t think there is much any of the staff can do about renewing it for him.

“If you’re not in LA that could limit the kinds of stories you are able to get.”

That has been my experience with the site. Anthony lives in the LA-area and has real face-to-face contacts at Bad Robot and Paramount, etc. That seems to help immensely. As you know Anthony’s face-time is part of what has helped to entice Bob Orci to come around and post comments and do interviews from time to time.
Back in 2008-2009 Anthony was literally at every press conference any of the new “Supreme Court” were at, whether it had to do with Trek or not. He did it just to get his face out there and seen by JJ Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof, etc. So they’d start to recognize him and talk to him when he showed up at press junkets, etc.

It’s does seem possible to do a great Trek site without living in LA, for example, I’m not sure where Adam (who is one of the top people behind TrekCore) lives, but he has amazing hookups for prime universe Trek information. Which of course this site doesn’t really have any more since it has such a heavy focus on JJ’s stuff.

However, back in 2006 this site was the place to go for TOS Remastered news, since the JJ movie was years away Tony made it his focus. Which is why I came on-board initially, since he clearly had some great information and wanted to do weekly coverage of TOS-R as it aired in the US.

So this site pretty much hinges on the contacts and connections Anthony has made over the past number of years to really get any substantial news scoops, not just reposts of press releases, etc.

996. Keachick - July 21, 2013

I agree. I prefer the Trekmovie format over Trekweb and other Star Trek sites. It is easy to read and comment.

#908 – “Myself, possessed of no information as to these proceedings, speculate it is likely just Paramount legal clamping down on leaks as they map the next film’s marketing campaign. They are probably wisely aiming not to have Disney broadside their domestic publicity this time around – possibly even planning on returning the favor, not that they’re likely to reveal that to anyone.
Anthony, lacking in the resources to legally challenge their NDAs, has probably wisely decided to withdraw rather than accidentally draw their wrath by unintentionally leaking something Paramount regards as vital.
At least, I’d much rather it be that than some manner of ill fate has befallen, Anthony.”

I also suspect that what you are saying may be correct.

Re: the earthquake in NZ – it was Disinvited’s post at #957, not #953 that I commented on.

997. Tom - July 21, 2013

bob was at comic con and said they are still trying to work out scheduling. Seems like they have been doing this since the movie was released. Hopefully something gets worked out soon. Then at a future Comic con we can see Pine, Quinto, Shatner and Nimoy, Orci and Kurtzman talking up a movie for the 50th anniversary

998. Matt Wright - July 21, 2013

@ 994 —

I’ve said this before, so please everyone read this:

If your comment appears to you, but disappears a second later, it’s almost certainly not deleted (true deletion requires a specific action by a moderator). Rather, it is an automatic response. It means it went to the moderation queue (or very rarely was false positive for the spam filter). It is not deleted. It just needs approval. I try to come through at least twice a day and approve comments. Kayla also tries to check in and approve comments when she can. So don’t worry it will get put back into the comments right where it should be as soon as it’s approved.

Posting the same thing again and again won’t help, the same keywords or links, etc. will just keep making comments pile up in the moderation queue. So if you try the comment a second time and it still disappears, don’t waste your time and our time resending it again and again. We’ll come around and approve it.

I keep trying to work on the comment filtering system to not put so many people’s comments in moderation, since most don’t really seem to need it.

So please everyone relax, it would be incredibly rare if you were really censored, or banned, et. al.

999. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@ 995. Matt Wright – July 21, 2013

“Do we know anyone that is in contact with Anthony?

No, we do not, trust me we have tried very hard, Kayla has been running down some known acquaintances at Paramount and Bad Robot. No one has heard from him. As I said, we’re getting worried about him at this point.”

This is worrisome & also strange. AP should have left an emergency contact with one of you guys in case something happened.

And I see the point that Trekmovie was really focused mostly on JJ Trek & not the prime universe.

1000. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@ 998. Matt Wright – July 21, 2013

oops, my mistake. Point taken & thanks for taking care of the site, Matt

1001. Matt Wright - July 21, 2013

Well we have his contact info, both his cell and land-line phone numbers both go to his voice mail message, which he never returns. He moved sometime in 2012 and didn’t give any of us his new mailing address. So we’re basically out of luck. But we keep trying to locate him.

1002. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

Matt, it seems unlikely to me that he would pass up Comicon. You might see if anyone you know who was at Comicon this year ran into him?

1003. Matt Wright - July 21, 2013

@MJ – That’s not a bad idea, but Anthony has pretty clearly dropped out from the public sphere, there’s no way he’d be at ComicCon and then not tweet or post about it. He’d be using it as a way to get Trekmovie updated with new/interesting stuff from San Diego.

1004. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@ 1001. Matt Wright – July 21, 2013

Well, I hope that AP will reappear soon & clarify things or at least, give you guys more leeway to run the site.

@ 997. Tom – July 21, 2013

“bob was at comic con and said they are still trying to work out scheduling. Seems like they have been doing this since the movie was released.”

How long it going to take them to work out that bloody scheduling ? I don’t want them to waste time like they did before.

1005. Red Dead Ryan - July 21, 2013

#993. Ahmed.

“It is really annoying when I see other major studios announcing their plans 2 or 3 years down the road & nothing from Paramount.”

“Man Of Steel” has already gotten a sequel scheduled for 2015, and Zach Snyder has officially announced that Batman will appear in the movie. (Still no word on who will play Batman. Christian Bale said “The Dark Knight Rises” was his last movie as the Dark Knight, but who knows, as long as Christopher Nolan produces, there is a chance he puts on the cape and cowl again.)

So, not only has Paramount said diddly squat about the third movie, we’re already getting big details about sequels to this year’s other big movies.

1006. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@1004. Ahmed, I bet the issue is that JJ doesn’t want to admit to himself that he can’t do both ST and SW, and therefore it’s dragging on for him to come to the realization that he needs to handover Trek. And money might unfortunately, be playing a role in this — JJ may not want to leave a couple million on the table by saying no to ST 2016.

So, I would be the whole JJ Star Wars thing is really what they mean by this generalized quotes. Orci and Kurtzman obviously don’t wan to embarrass JJ (and hurt their chances of a bigger role in Trek 2016) by being more specific than this.

1007. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@1005

I like the Dark Knight Trilogy the way it stands. Given the way it ended, it would cheapen the trilogy for me if they tried to somehow make another movie.

1008. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

And at some point you got to turn over the mantle. Otherwise you end up a with a late 40′s guy playing Wolverine still when the rest of the X-Men cast have been rebooted. It’s not convincing anymore, especially to the younger generation.

1009. Craiger - July 21, 2013

I think we should just know its officially been given the green light. Or if Star Trek is being put to bed again? We should know too much about the third one since its 3 years out.

1010. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@1007. MJ,

There is a rumor that Joseph Gordon-Levitt might be the next Batman.

1011. dmduncan - July 21, 2013

Matt, unfortunately Anthony has a habit of dropping out, so it’s difficult to know if this episode is different or if he’s merely feeling less accountable to anyone as the years go on.

Not sure if you can share the information, but if you can, what have his reasons been in the past? Just felt like taking a break?

1012. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@1010. OK, now that scenario. following TDKR, I could buy into.

1013. Matt Wright - July 21, 2013

@ dmduncan – I’ve never been given a reason. As I said he doesn’t really share anything from his life. He didn’t really do this total disappearance thing until more recently. From approximately 2006 – 2010 he was always available via e-mail at least.

1014. Red Dead Ryan - July 21, 2013

I don’t see Joseph Gordon-Levitt playing Batman. He still looks like a kid who just got out of high school. Nightwing would make more sense.

1015. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@ 1014. Red Dead Ryan – July 21, 2013

“I don’t see Joseph Gordon-Levitt playing Batman. He still looks like a kid who just got out of high school. Nightwing would make more sense.”

Joseph Gordon-Levitt might looks like a kid but he is a fine good actor, he reminded me a lot of Edward Norton. I see no problem at all if he plays Batman.

1016. Red Dead Ryan - July 21, 2013

#1015.

Yeah, JGL is a good actor. He just doesn’t look like Batman/Bruce Wayne. But neither did Michael Keaton, I suppose.

1017. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@ 1016. Red Dead Ryan – July 21, 2013

“Yeah, JGL is a good actor. He just doesn’t look like Batman/Bruce Wayne. But neither did Michael Keaton, I suppose.”

lol yep. I don’t know what they were thinking back then when they cast him as Batman.

He wasn’t really bad but just not the Batman that I had in mind.

1018. Red Dead Ryan - July 21, 2013

Michael Keaton wouldn’t have worked had the “Batman” movies he starred in were more in the style of Christopher Nolan’s trilogy.

Michael Keaton brought a quirky style to Bruce Wayne and a dark, almost psychotic mood to Batman which fit in perfectly with Tim Burton’s version of Gotham City and its villains.

1019. Craiger - July 21, 2013

Matt I saw Anthony has a Hotmail address I wonder if that is still accurate?

1020. Keachick - July 21, 2013

Maybe Paramount will announce something around 8 September 2013 when Star Trek is 47 years old. Just getting their “ducks in a row” for the real party three years from now.

One can hope…

1021. Phil - July 21, 2013

From Roberto Orci, at SDCC. Doesn’t really offer any info, but does suggest that Quinto was running his mouth regarding Abrams involvement…..

Speaking with Zap2It at San Diego Comic-Con while promoting Ender’s Game, screenwriter/producer Roberto Orci offers an update on the next Star Trek movie. Zachary Quinto (who plays Spock in this particular series) recently said that the threequel will begin shooting next year, with J.J. Abrams likely directing. With Abrams set to film Star Wars: Episode VII early 2014, the two films’ schedules would easily clash. While his helming Star Trek 3 is still questionable, Orci is surprised to see Quinto’s comments on the matter. “I’d love to have J.J. back. We’re still talking to Paramount about what the scheduling might be and if we can all do it together again, but yeah I read that too and I was like, ‘Whoa, does [Quinto] know something I don’t? I’d better call him.’ He owes me a call.” It was previously reported that Paramount is targeting a 2016 release date for the film, to commemorate the franchise’s 50th anniversary. Disney plans to release Star Wars: Episode VII in 2015.

Given the 2016 target date, and Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman’s other commitments, I don’t see any of these guys involved in the next movie. If they are, it’s going to be five years before the starship Enterprise hits the big screen again…

1022. John from Cincinnati - July 21, 2013

George Lucas should direct the next Star Trek movie.

Poetic justice.

1023. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@1021. Phil

“Given the 2016 target date, and Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman’s other commitments, I don’t see any of these guys involved in the next movie. If they are, it’s going to be five years before the starship Enterprise hits the big screen again…”

It has been more than 2 months since STID was released & Bob is still talking about “what the scheduling might be” ? He is joking or something ? Or do they want to delay the production like they did before waiting for Godot !!

Paramount should seriously ditch this team if they are not serious enough & start looking for a new team.

As for Quinto, as I said before that I will not believe anything from that cast again & nor should the fans.

1024. Matt Wright - July 21, 2013

@ Craiger — I don’t even know if it’s still active. That Hotmail address is not one that I’ve ever used to communicate with him. I assume it was a freebee “disposable” e-mail address for use with registering the domain name, since he knew it would be made public record. But yes I’ve sent an e-mail to that address in an attempt to try any possible way to get in touch with him.

1025. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@ 1024. Matt Wright – July 21, 2013

What about his email address at the scifanatic.net ?

1026. Basement Blogger - July 21, 2013

Matt Wright,

Thank you for updating us about TrekMovie and Anthony. Again, I hope he’s okay. If he’s ill or there are other problems, I hope he let’s us know. I don’t want to know too much but maybe he can hint at it. We can send him our thoughts and prayers.

1027. Phil - July 21, 2013

@1023. Well, in defense of Quinto, he did frame his comments by stating these were observations and opinions, so take it with a grain of salt.

Orci and Kurtzmans schedule isn’t a secret – there is plenty of information out there on the projects they are on now, and it’s hard to see then having any free time prior to 2015. Bad Robot, the company will manage the sequel just fine, just don’t expect Orci, Kurtzman, or Abrams to have the roles they did in the previous movies….

1028. Phil - July 21, 2013

@1005. SDCC spilled a lot of details about upcoming tentpoles in the next two years. Can’t help but wonder if a few more of these big budget flame outs are going to affect some of these plans, though….

1029. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@1021.

I don’t know. If Star Wars comes out in May 2015. and ST-3 comes out in December 2016 for the 50th Anniversary, that is a 17-month gap,

If they have the schedule lined up properly, ST-3 could shoot live action from August to November 2015, and then have a full year for special effects, editing and post-production.

So I think some of you are overstating the case that JJ couldn’t do both. And I would actually prefer a holiday release for Trek — I think it is a better fit for Star Trek.

1030. Basement Blogger - July 21, 2013

Just seeing the news that Joss Whedon has announced the name for the Avengers sequel, Avengers; Age of Ultron. Obviously, we know that the sequel will feature bad robot Ultron. Um… pun intended.

What does this have to do with Star Trek? Ih my opinion, one of the mistakes that hurt the box office of Star Trek Into Darkness was the secrecy until six months before the film opened. I wasn’t asking for details of the plot one year before STID opened but there could have been more publicity, in general for Star Trek. J.J. and others could have pumped up the Star Trek franchise.

I mean look we already know the villain for the next Avengers movie two years before it opens. We didn’t actually know the villain for STID until it opened. Yes, there was Red Dead Ryan, MJ, myself and others who deduced the villain. And this site had a source last April. But the veil of secrecy, along with the lack of any publicity for all things in Star Trek , dampened the excitement for the movie. I hope with Star Trek 3: This Klingon Plot Line Better Make Money that they pump up the Star Trek franchise much, much earlier.

1031. Matt Wright - July 21, 2013

@ 1025 – Yep that is the e-mail address he first used when I started contributing to Trekmovie, I saved it in my e-mail address book and have used it ever since. It’s effectively the same as his @trekmovie one (pretty sure one is an e-mail alias of the other).

1032. Matt Wright - July 21, 2013

@ MJ — I’ve always liked a holiday release for Trek as well, and of course since ST:VI the prime universe Trek movies were a holiday franchise. But Paramount keeps trying to make it a summer tent pole, come hell or high water. Even though other really successful contemporary genre franchises were/are fine being major holiday events (e.x. Harry Potter and Hunger Games).

1033. Curious Cadet - July 21, 2013

@1021 Phil,
“Given the 2016 target date, and Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman’s other commitments, I don’t see any of these guys involved in the next movie. If they are, it’s going to be five years before the starship Enterprise hits the big screen again…”

For Abrams to direct, it assumes he will NOT direct Star Wars episode VIII, or be intimately involved in the 2016 Star Wars stand-alone as a producer. And Trek would have to be released in December 2016 — so three and half-years instead of four.

The next Trek needs to be released in 2015, not 2016. Heck Star Wars is going to be released in Summer 2015, and they only have about 6 months lead time. But to push it to the end of 2016 would be unthinkable. All to accommodate JJ Abrams schedule? Give me a break. They did that already and they have the result at the domestic box office.

This “schedule” Orci keeps referring to is a smoke screen. These guys don’t want to make Trek a priority, and if Paramount wants to put up with that attitude, then good luck building this franchise into anything more than they have.

While the franchise owes a lot to Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman, for ressucitating it, they aren’t the only guys in town, and waiting for them to find time for Trek going forward may just as easily see them preside over the demise of their own revival.

1034. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

Just noticed that Benecio Del Toro is in that dumbass Guardians of the Galaxy movie in 2014.

So Paramount would not pay him a bit more $ to close the deal for STID, but Disney gave him want he wanted for that stupid movie?

Sounds like Paramount cheaped out on us getting a more Montelban-like Khan.

Wow !!!

1035. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@1033

Hey Einstein,

The 50th Anniversary is 2016, not 2015.

So there will be no Trek movie in 2015 — you can take that to the bank.

1036. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

MJ, are you seriously suggesting that they delay Star Trek to the end of 2016 to accommodate Abrams schedule !!!

1037. Disco Spock - July 21, 2013

Curious Cadet and MJ,

MJ is correct on the 2016 year for the next movie coming out. There is absolutely no way the movie would come out in 2015, as then they would miss the 50th anniversary marketing opportunity. And we have already heard from Orci that that is what the studio wants to do.

So 2015 is DOA. No way that is going to happen. It is a complete waste of time to even discuss 2015.

1038. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@ 1037. Disco Spock – July 21, 2013

“So 2015 is DOA. No way that is going to happen. It is a complete waste of time to even discuss 2015.”

Agreed, the movie should come out in the summer of 2016 but not at the end of that year.

And Paramount should not wait for these guys if they are not committed.

1039. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

Ahmed,

No. What I am saying is that all of you who keep saying that it is impossible for JJ to do both are wrong. The SW schedule would support the next Trek movie coming out at the end of 2016 and making the anniversary still.

I’m not recommending this.

I’d prefer a new director and writing team for the next one. A fresh and more serious approach. But, given this approach, I also thing that the movie might do better as a holiday release. So I am not hung up on when in 2016 it is released — December would be better than May in terms of the reception, in my opinion.

1040. Ahmed - July 21, 2013

@MJ

“I’d prefer a new director and writing team for the next one. A fresh and more serious approach. ”

Totally agree with you there. What we need is a new director to get the movie out by 2016.

And I’m not comfortable with the idea of giving one man the control over two major sci-fi franchises like ST & SW.

1041. MJ (The Original). - July 21, 2013

@1040. Not only that, but JJ is probably a better fit for SW than Trek. He has the opportunity to be next Lucas, and I think that is what he should do.

Star Trek needs to get back to being more like Star Trek.

Star Trek 2009 was awesome, and STID was OK. Now that JJ revitalized the franchise, we need a different type of creative force to take it back to a bit harder brand of science fiction, and better and more logical storytelling.

1042. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

“My one-line idea was ‘Star Trek goes in search of God.’ Then I ran into flak: ‘Whose God? What God? We’re not going to alienate people.’ Somebody came up with the idea, ‘Well, what happens if it’s an alien who thinks he’s God? And then an alien who thinks that he’s the Devil by projection that there’s a God? And in order to get that movie made, I agreed to it, and that was a compromise.” – William Shatner

“The difference between making a compromise and being political or standing on your standards? Where do you do that? The [book] editor says, ‘Cut that line,’ and you say, ‘That’s my whole story!’ do you say, ‘No, I’m not going to do it,’ do you say ‘Okay, I’ll do it?’ So we’re making political judgments or standing on our standards all our life–everything we do is that How do you make those decisions? That’s what I had to learn on Star Trek V.” – William Shatner

“What is on television that’s science fiction? I don’t think there is anything. There is no real series that’s on television that I know of,” Shatner said when asked what he thought of the state of it. “What’s happened is that computer graphics are reaching such an extraordinary point that they’ve taken over the magic–or they are the magic–of movies. And great! We can do things in the movies just by imagining, and some wonderful artist draws it and it comes alive. That’s the magic of science fiction. And yet having said that, the other part of the magic of science fiction is the word and your imagination about what that is without seeing the pictures.” – William Shatner

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/07/19/william-shatner-wants-the-lead-in-star-wars-episode-vii/

1043. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1042. No doubt some people will be impressed with these quotes like he is some master or sf and culture. For me, it just reiterates that:

(1) More often that not, he is just full of shit, full of himself, and says things that he thinks are clever or will be received as clever by the media and fans;

(2) He had a dumb-ass idea for STV, and was way in over his head, and never should have been given the director gig.

But I still love him as Kirk, up and through about ST IV anyway.

1044. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

Look who came out of retirement;

http://www.wearemoviegeeks.com/2013/06/star-trek-ii-wrath-of-khan-director-nicholas-meyer-developing-cold-war-space-race-tv-series/

“STAR TREK II: WRATH OF KHAN Director Nicholas Meyer Developing Cold War Space Race TV Series”

1045. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1044. Disinvited – July 22, 2013

Or maybe I should say look what [Cold War] theme Meyer’s pulled out of retirement?

Sure hope he can’t help but get sucked into its development. I would love to see how he touches on the era’s SF contribution to the race and NASA’s dance with it in print, film and television.

1046. Khan 2.0 - July 22, 2013

@1035 – actually the true 50th anniversary is next year (The Cage :)

1047. Mitchell - July 22, 2013

@832. John from Cincinnati -
Agreed. and with marvel’s slate of films coming fast all featuring team ups heading into avengers 2. Also now DC Comics two greatest heroes in history set for a Superman Batman movie in 2015- My guess is there will be major pressure on Paramount to do likewise and cross universe’s and maybe timelines also with young and old Picard/Kirk and company being included for the 50th.

and honestly there should be. It’s the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek for goodness sake!!!

1048. crazydaystrom - July 22, 2013

1041. MJ (The Original)
“Star Trek 2009 was awesome, and STID was OK. Now that JJ revitalized the franchise, we need a different type of creative force to take it back to a bit harder brand of science fiction, and better and more logical storytelling.”

I SO agree, MJ!

Also if the 50th is not sufficiently commemorated by Paramount it will go down in entertainment history as one of the great screwups and examples of owner allowing their ‘golden goose’ to suffer from malnutrition.

“a bit harder brand of science fiction, and better and more logical storytelling.”

Those things plus the impressive talents of the current cast along with the stunning visual effects available these days would be the Star Trek I dream about and long for still. And it would fulfill the ‘promise’ of ST09.

But the mystery of why Paramount, CBS and Bad Robot cannot get their Star Trek ducks in a row and do with the franchise what Disney/Marvel, Fox and now Warner/DC are doing with their franchises is a real head-scratcher. History indicates the reasons are money and/or egos. Damned shame.

1049. Curious Cadet - July 22, 2013

@1038. Ahmed,
“the movie should come out in the summer of 2016 but not at the end of that year.”

Here’s the problem … What Paramount should do, vs. what they’re planning to do, vs. what may happen.

Paramount should have been on the stick to push out the next film by 2015 (of course they should have never allowed a 4 year delay to begin with). Waiting for an arbitrary ‘anniversary’ date seems ridiculous when dealing with a franchise like this — strike while the iron is hot and fit the anniversary in however best it can be.

Following Paramount’s own Anniversary procedure, they released their 100th Anniversary logo starting on films in December 2011, running it through December 2012. Never mind that Paramount didn’t become “Paramount” until 1914. So Star Trek’s Anniversary could be ‘celebrated’ whenever they chose. Why not kick off 2016 with a December release in 2015?

But whatever, they want a Summer release, fine — 3 years is respectable (not ideal under the circumstances), but pushing the film back another 6 months waiting for Abrams availability and sacrificing their Summer tent pole in the process is ridiculous. So then what? Might as well push it to 2017 and get that Summer release, and completely miss the anniversary year altogether? Did that already.

The fact Star Trek was born in 1964 with the Cage, and WNMGB in 1965 gives Trek license to start celebrating whenever they want. Not that it would ever happen, especially with an as yet unknown creative team, but sure why not kick off the celebrations even as early as the Summer of 2015 with the movie and roll them into 2016?

Anything but this misguided idea they could wait until December 2016 or later to accommodate Abram’s schedule.

1050. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1046. Khan 2.0 – July 22, 2013
#1049. Curious Cadet – July 22, 2013

It’s a good point that Paramount could strike out on its own and celebrate the 50th anniversary of Trek being first committed to film which would only be a natural for a film company.

However, one reputation nuParamount currently has and seems to have inherited from its former namesake, nuCBS, is that of being cheap. It is very difficult to see how they could find resistible the opportunity to ride CBS’ publicity/advertising campaign for the 50th anniversary of Trek’s first broadcast in merchandising/blu-ray sets.

It will be interesting to see if CBS will actually clear a spot in its Prime time schedule and spend money to mark the occasion with a special or will they decide to churn out what will end up as an infomercial that they’ll write off as an advertising expense as they buy such slots to hawk its 50th anniversary commemorative themed packaged Trek wares?

The cynic in me has often mused CBS hired Charlie Rose so they could funnel such things as a serious historical reflection documentaries over to PBS so as to not have to dislodge their high-octane ratings generators.

1051. Phil - July 22, 2013

@1033. I don’t see Bad Robot walking away from Trek, the only question is are they wedded to O, K, and JJ as the team? I’m not, and there is nothing stopping Burke from bringing in new talent to manage the franchise. That is a decision BR and Paramount should be able to make fairly quickly.

Likewise, there isn’t anything linking the 50th anniversary to the calendar year 2016. If they shoot a two part movie, both under the banner of the 50th anniversary, and release one summer 2015 and the other 2016 that doesn’t bother me in the least….and it makes Chris Pines comments about doing two more make a little more sense as well. They could easily squeeze a year and a half out of the anniversary, but they need to get started…

1052. Patrick Gerard - July 22, 2013

My elevator pitch?

Play with time in the next film. No. Not time travel.

Instead, I mean have the film take place over a span of time longer than a few days or weeks. Many critically acclaimed films with genre elements span years or decades (think Big Fish or Benjamin Button).

This crew probably has one more movie left in it… so go out with a bang.

Have the movie cover 50 years for Star Trek’s 50th.

By the end, Pine and Quinto age into Shatner and Nimoy and ride off into the sunset, clearing the deck.

1053. dmduncan - July 22, 2013

1050. Disinvited – July 22, 2013

Charlie Rose is a Bilderberger. He’s driven by an elitist oligarchic agenda, not a “serious” journalist.

FYI.

1054. Curious Cadet - July 22, 2013

@1051. Phil,
“They could easily squeeze a year and a half out of the anniversary, but they need to get started…”

All excellent points. Abrams would have to turn the reigns over to Burke, and hopefully his ego won’t get in the way of letting that happen. It makes more sense to keep the money coming in, rather than let the franchise go entirely. If CBS really is stifling any integrated merchandising with the films, it’s unlikely they will change their policies for another producer anyway.

Star Trek in of itself does not need an anniversary to get a sizeable box office take, STID four years after ST09 proved that. With a 470 million dollar take on the horizon, STID has certainly primed the pump for an equally successful run, if not better, in the next couple of years. Delaying the sequel again, on the other hand may ruin all that good will and interest. Boasting the 50th anniversary alone is not going to make up for a film a year or two late to the box office — at least not without some spectacular promises to boot.

But yes, pushing a two parter out in the span of 18 months would be a home run, both launching the anniversary in 2015 — striking while the iron is hot, and riding the wave of nostalgia and enthusiasm created by the well received 3rd film, and the barrage of documentaries and merchandising licensed by CBS throughout the year, culminating in the 4th film in 2016.

Unfortunately, I don’t see these guys being ale to get their act together fast enough.

1055. Curious Cadet - July 22, 2013

And what about the Star Wars and Marvel idea of stand-alone movies that focus on individual characters? Why not an ambitious slate of interstitial films that allow characters to be explored; like Wolverine, or the planned 2016 Star Wars film?

I’m not sure what this would be in the Star Trek world, maybe use the IDW ongoing comics as inspiration, but give it to Orci and Kurtzman to produce and hire a secondary writing directing team to keep Trek out there between major installments … Even train them to take over from Abrams completely.

1056. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1053. dmduncan – July 22, 2013

Good to know, and supports my contention which was they only hired him so they could use him to funnel things that they viewed as stealing valuable ratings air over to PBS’ via AMERICAN MASTERS, PIONEERS OF TELEVISION, etc. That and he has connections to people they want to book for their talk productions.

1057. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1051. Phil – July 22, 2013

I don’t see them walking either. However, Moonves’ has a very bad reputation. I still doubt THE WRAP’s “sources” but if there were any merchandising actions attempted by Bad Robot in abrogation of the Paramount/CBS “arrangement”, I don’t doubt for a second that he’d use it to swagger all over the parties involved. The only thing that would moderate that is whether he believes their current product has benefited his CBS financially. If he does, he’d make sure everyone knows who owns “Star Trek” but would ultimately find a way to allow the status quo to continue.

This may be a case where Moonves’ low understanding of Trek leads to low expectations that may actually put the other parties on a good footing. Because one consistent thing in all this “merchandising” reporting is that CBS is raking in the dough.

1058. Red Dead Ryan - July 22, 2013

I’m not sure why some folks, like Curious Cadet, continue to insist that 2015 is a doable date for releasing the third movie.

The writers haven’t even begun coming up with an idea for the next movie, never mind even getting started on the script.

And as they have already proven before, they have side projects they feel the need to do. So, its not likely that the script will be worked on until well into next year, at the earliest. J.J Abrams is going to be in London next year filming the new “Star Wars” movie, so he isn’t going to be available. Paramount is either going to have to wait for him, or find another director.

Also, most big-name directors aren’t going to touch “Star Trek” with a ten foot pole, and Neil Blomkampf (sp?, director of “District 9″ and the upcoming “Elysium”) said he wouldn’t be able to make the “Star Trek” movie he’d want because of studio demands that it be made a certain way to ensure box office success as opposed to outside-the-box storytelling, which in their eyes, would potentially hinder profits. I wouldn’t be surprised if Duncan Jones (“Moon”) feels the same way.

Even if a big name director wants to direct, Paramount has a history of being cheap, and directors like Chris Nolan, Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, or even Joss Whedon and Jon Favreau would be off the table, as they would command too much for the bean counters’ liking.

Then there is the potential feud with CBS. There seems to be a worry about a clash of egos between the heads of CBS and Paramount, which might end up derailing any plans for any fiftieth anniversary movie release and celebrations.

So, at the very least, 2015 is definitely not going to happen. If Paramount and Bad Robot, along with the writers, can’t get on the same page soon, the anniversary year will be missed as well, and the prospect of a third movie goes into limbo.

1059. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1046 “actually the true 50th anniversary is next year (The Cage :)”

@1049: “The fact Star Trek was born in 1964 with the Cage, and WNMGB in 1965 gives Trek license to start celebrating whenever they want. ”

LOL. What are you people smoking today? :-))

That’s like saying:

– Roddenberry begin to start outlining the series proposal for Star Trek in 1963 (which he would complete in 1964), so STID just represented teh 25th Anniversary. Celebrate now, everyone! LOL

- The Apollo 50th anniversary should be in 2018, not 2019, since the contractors delivered the components to NASA in late 1968.

The Anniversary of the Allied World War II in Europe should be 1944, as the war really ended in late 1944, since the Battle of the Bulge decided the war.

- My 2012 Honda Accord is really a 2011 Honda Accord, since that is when it left the factory

- President Obama became President in 2008, instead of 2009, since 2008 is when he won the election.

- etc. etc. etc.

The above just show how stupid this all is. And this is especially dumb, given the 25th anniversary of Star Trek already happened in our history, and was a big deal to us — THE OFFICIAL 25TH ANNIVERSARY OF STAR TREK WAS ALREADY CELEBRATED WORLDWIDE DURING THE YEAR 1991. I was there, and that year is officially locked in stone at Trek’s 25th Anniversary. In case you doubt me, go on the internet and search, “Star Trek 25th Anniversary 1991″ and you see the pages and pages of hits that come up.

So please space us the moronic reasons why the anniversary could be celebrated a year or two early. No, I don’t think that anyone will be fooled if we do it early.

Disco Spock said it best:

“2015 is DOA. No way that is going to happen. It is a complete waste of time to even discuss 2015.”

1060. Craiger - July 22, 2013

Breaking News!!! Thor writers are close to a deal to write ST: 3. JJ may also drop out of directing SW: Episode 7.

http://collider.com/star-trek-3-new-writers-abrams-leaving-star-wars-episode-7/#more-270823

1061. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1060. That is interesting news.

My opinion of JJ will fall significantly if he drops Star Wars after already committing to it. That is dishonorable.

And the reason given that he doesn’t want to leave LA with his wife and kids for a year is just dumb. What group of spoiled rich kids from LA would be better off taking a year away from LaLa land and being exposed to Great Britain.

Most of us in the real world would kill for an opportunity like this. What a jerk.

1062. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1059. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013

Actually, I think the point that was being made was that Hollywood never let a little thing like “the facts” interfere with what the marketing department determined is the best time to strike.

The example given was Paramount has celebrated their 100th anniversary as a motion picture company even though the first Paramount didn’t exist until 1914.

Not to mention, even after 3 years airing as a series, Trek was regarded as a failure every bit as much as a pilot that never made it to air.

“Despite the years of syndication that brought Star Trek to its legions of fans, Roddenberry struggled financially throughout most of the 1970s, because he couldn’t get work as a writer/producer because Star Trek had failed as a television show.” – Harry Thomas

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/dvd/2013/07/trek-nation-isnt-quite-a-love-letter-to-a-father/

Myself, I like marking Trek’s historic firsts. Such as: getting NBC to ask and pay for a second pilot – that’s where I’d mark the date to start celebrating a Trek anniversary.

Besides, if you are really all that serious about your being a stickler for the anniversary “facts” there were no Trek motion pictures in 1966 so what exactly would Paramount have to offer factually in jumping in on the celebration of a TV airing? By the facts, they should wait until TMP’s 50th anniversary in 2029 for their Trek 50th anniversary.

1063. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

“The example given was Paramount has celebrated their 100th anniversary as a motion picture company even though the first Paramount didn’t exist until 1914.”

Great example, because we know that Paramount celebrated publicly, for an entire year, its 75th Anniversary in 1987. And now Paramount just celebrated its 100th public Anniversary in 2012 — exactly 25 years after the 75th.

Star Trek celebrated its 25th Anniversary publicly, for an entire year in 1991. And so the next public anniversary will be in 2016.

People can debate when they think an anniversary should be held base on origins of something, but once major properties start celebrating very publicly MILESTONE ANNIVERSARIES like 25th, 50th, 75th and 100th, you’ve locked those dates in stone for all time.

1064. K-7 - July 22, 2013

Disinvited,

There is no getting around that Star Trek had a massive 25th Anniversary Celebration during the year of 1991.

“Pretending that away” now would just be silly.

1065. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1063. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013
#1064. K-7 – July 22, 2013

I only observe that those anniversaries were planned and executed by a Paramount that then owned and controlled STAR TREK.

This is no longer the case. CBS is free to create whatever anniversary marketing campaign they determine would best suit their needs. Just as they decided they would not follow the previous Paramount decision of paying music royalties for publishing DVDs of TV series that used popular copyrighted music in their episodes and instead would replace them with generic public domain tunes.

1066. Curious Cadet - July 22, 2013

@1062 Disinvited,
” By the facts, they should wait until TMP’s 50th anniversary in 2029 for their Trek 50th anniversary.”

I’m sure Paramount will exploit that too. But that’s not really the point. You’re much closer with respect to the marketing.

Paramount did celebrate their 100th Anniversary in 2012, so there’s no going back as it were, but they started in December 2011. Such “jump starts” are common.

Phil is absolutely right, a 2015 film kick start into a full year of acknowledged 2016 anniversary celebrations culminating in a second film of a two-parter would be amazing.

1067. Basement Blogger - July 22, 2013

@ 1060

Craiger,

Thanks for the breaking news. First, the alleged new writers also had a hand in X-Men; First Class and the show Fringe. My guess is that they will write the Star Trek screenplay from story ideas by Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman. From IMDB, they did something like that for Thor. Somebody else had the story and they got involved with the script.

Should be good news. X-Men: First Class was an excellent movie. Thor was very good. I love Fringe for its smarts and dialogue.

As for the rumor that J.J. Abrams might drop out for Star Wars. , I don’t believe it. He had to know where the movie was going to be filmed when he signed the contract. If he didn’t want to do it in England, I’m sure he had enough pull to get that in the contract or get Disney to move it back to Los Angeles. But if he drops out, could J.J. be our guy for Star Trek 3: The Search for a Bigger Box Office?

1068. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1066. Curious Cadet – July 22, 2013

Well, actually that was the point I wanted to make, i.e. there’ll be as many 50th anniversaries as they think they can use to move product. These are marketing campaigns born of whatever they think they will fly not something submitted to some historical bureau of standards.

And they don’t just stop when 365 days have passed, they’ll stop short or go on years beyond with stuff marked “Marking 50 Years of Star Trek” depending solely on how poorly or well stuff is moving off the retail shelves with the label.

1069. dmduncan - July 22, 2013

I hope JJ chooses family over Star Wars and lets it go to someone else. Family is way more important than a notch on your career-belt especially since the guy is already fantastically successful.

Screw moving to England, I say.

1070. Red Dead Ryan - July 22, 2013

I agree with MJ and K-7 here. “Star Trek” celebrated its 25th anniversary in 1991, which will be exactly twenty-five years in of itself in 2016.

Why the hell would CBS start the anniversary a year sooner and ignore the 1991 anniversary mark is just beyond me. Why? For marketing purposes? You do the marketing in the proper anniversary year! Sheesh!

I mean, it would have been completely ridiculous to celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the James Bond movies in 2011. That would have been the 49th year.

Now, obviously the planning of the big anniversary dates would begin a year or two prior, as there would be a lot of scheduling and event planning to deal with.

But the actual celebrations would have to occur on the actual anniversary date, otherwise it wouldn’t be very credible, now would it?

Such a simple concept, but somehow Disinvited has somehow managed to convolute and confuse the whole idea of anniversaries. LOL!

Oh, well! :-)

As for J.J Abrams, I’ll believe it when I see it. I’m still assuming he’s directing “Star Wars”. But if he’s dropped out for the rumored reasons, I’ll have to agree with MJ.

I mean, he makes good money doing a day job most of us could only fantasize about, and if he quits because he doesn’t want to take his family to London for a year, then all he’s doing is acting like one of those prima donna sports stars who refuses to play in certain cities even though he gets paid millions of dollars.

Wah, wah, wah! Cry me a friggin’ river!

1071. dmduncan - July 22, 2013

1061. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013

@1060. That is interesting news.

My opinion of JJ will fall significantly if he drops Star Wars after already committing to it. That is dishonorable.

***

Well once upon a time he pledged loyalty to Star Trek. The guy waffles. I can only assume that a guy like JJ puts his name on a piece of paper that only says what he agrees it should say, so if he can get out of it…

1072. Red Dead Ryan - July 22, 2013

#1068. Disinvited.

“And they don’t just stop when 365 days have passed, they’ll stop short or go on years beyond with stuff marked “Marking 50 Years of Star Trek” depending solely on how poorly or well stuff is moving off the retail shelves with the label.”

Huh? WTF? Why would they continue to honor the fiftieth anniversary years after the fact? What are they going to do, have a fifth anniversary of the fiftieth anniversary? This makes absolutely no sense, dude!

#1069.

“I hope JJ chooses family over Star Wars and lets it go to someone else. Family is way more important than a notch on your career-belt especially since the guy is already fantastically successful.

Screw moving to England, I say.”

Big deal. There are worse places to be and worse things to do than living in England for a year directing a “Star Wars” movie. Which does happen to be Abrams’ day job.

It’s not like his family will suffer. Moving over there is a very minor inconvenience. He and his family will be well-compensated.

To me, for a director who has earned millions of dollars doing something he loves to suddenly refuse to travel to be part of something he has always dreamed of merely because its a small burden on his family, smacks of spoiled rich-boy behaviour.

1073. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1070. Red Dead Ryan – July 22, 2013

And this “celebrated” the “25th” in 1992 and a few years after?:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365786/

Celebrating the debut on television is all fine and well but CBS marketing can come up with whatever they need to mark for their 50th campaigns. And why not? Double and triple dipping on already published videos is common in their marketing. What compels them to hold the line there?

1074. dmduncan - July 22, 2013

1072. Red Dead Ryan – July 22, 2013

“To me, for a director who has earned millions of dollars doing something he loves to suddenly refuse to travel to be part of something he has always dreamed of merely because its a small burden on his family, smacks of spoiled rich-boy behaviour.”

***

Two things:

1. He may just be threatening to pull out to see if that gets him what he wants.

2. But if he’s serious, then it is a big deal to him, and that tells you what he regards as more important. You can’t tell him what he values more. And if it turns out not to be a ploy, then you’ll have to revise your idea of how important it was to JJ to make a Star Wars movie.

I mean, his first response to the offer was to say no. So the history of “no-yes-maybe” tells me he was ambivalent, and maybe still is.

And if the contract allows him to get out of it for that reason, then he is literally not obligated to do the movie.

1075. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

@ 1060. Craiger – July 22, 2013

“Breaking News!!! Thor writers are close to a deal to write ST: 3. JJ may also drop out of directing SW: Episode 7.”

Thanks for the breaking news,

From reading the article, it sound like Bob & Alex will be still involved in the script, so not really good news if we are going to have 4 writers writing the script.

I just hope the Abrams will stick with SW. I don’t want him back to Star Trek. He is the perfect director for movies like SW!

And I don’t believe that he didn’t know they are going to shoot in London, every single SW movie was shoot there. There might be other issues/problems with Disney.

1076. Craiger - July 22, 2013

I wonder if this is why Anthony isn’t here anymore? Because Orci told him they wont write the third one so he wont have exclusive access to the third movie?

1077. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

DM,

The point you are missing is that last fall it was mentioned then that the movies would be shot in London. This is not anything new, so if he accepted the offer then, with the idea that “he could pressure Lucasfilm later to film in LA,” well to me, that doesn’t sound like a very honest and straightforward way to deal with people.

He should follow through with his commitments.

1078. Red Dead Ryan - July 22, 2013

I have to think Abrams knew what he was getting into when he signed on to do “Star Wars”. I am sure someone told him that filming would happen in London.

Now, if the real reason that he is rumored to be leaving is over creative differences with Disney, then that makes much more sense, and is more understandable.

If Disney is telling Abrams exactly how to make the movie in accordance with their own corporate image which happens to clash with his own vision on how the movie should be made then it would be perfectly fine to expect him to drop out. No director should have to put up with studio interference and dictatorship.

But the whole “I don’t want to take my family to England for a year” line of reasoning is quite nonsensical. “Star Wars” is his dream job, he even said so numerous times.

1079. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

He probably thought that Disney will give him the same amount of control that he used to get from Paramount.

It is ridiculous that he is acting this way, because one way or another, this will end up bad for SW marketing & for him as well.

1080. Aurore - July 22, 2013

“Screw moving to England, I say.”
_______

So do I.

(From the Collider article):

“…..Abrams protested against shooting the movie in England (presumably because he didn’t want to be away from his family for so long)…”

If he really has second thoughts about moving to England, and, assuming the rumours are true, I hope that he won’t be away from his family.

And, I say this no matter what happens next ; even if he ends up not directing/producing any other Star Trek movie, in the future.

1081. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

@Aurore

Why did he agree in the first place if he already knew they are shooting in London ?

He is just acting like a jerk.

1082. dmduncan - July 22, 2013

1077. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013

Yeah but I would like to know what kind of agreement he really had, i.e., was it tentative on some points? Did JJ voice concern on doing it in England and they tentatively agreed to settle that issue later so that they could slate JJ for the project because they really wanted him? Did they both think at the time that the other one would cave on the issue and now maybe they’re finding out that they won’t budge? Was the contract he signed written so that moving to England wasn’t a part of it?

If JJ said he’ll move to do it and now he’s backing out, then he doesn’t look good, I agree, particularly after he waffled on his Star Trek loyalty.

I don’t want to hammer him on his SW agreement because I just don’t know what they agreed to and what they didn’t. If he backs out and it turns into a he-said she-said fight, then I expect we’ll learn more.

Do think that he’s looking rather flaky. He compromised his own casting principle on Cumberbatch, he stated loyalty to Star Trek and then abandoned it. Now this. But to me, this is actually the most forgivable one of his about-faces IF it’s true, IF he’s serious, and IF he protected himself contractually.

1083. Phil - July 22, 2013

Well, I suspect the JJ stuff is just rumor at this point, not putting any credence to it just yet. Besides, it won’t be the first time a director has left a project over ‘creative differences’, so even if true, they’ll find another director.

1084. dmduncan - July 22, 2013

1080. Aurore – July 22, 2013

So do I.

***

Haha! Of course you do. Who would move from France to England if they have the choice?

1085. Disco Spock - July 22, 2013

@1081: “He is just acting like a jerk.”

Agreed. Little rich boy doesn’t want trophy wife and kids to live in posh accommodations and experience a different culture for a year.

I am not sympathetic. Creativity great, and the savior of Trek, this guy is also a coddled, spoiled little brat who always gets his way.

@Disinvited

I attended fan-sponsored conventions in the years 1986 and 1991 that celebrated the 20th Anniversaries of Star Trek. These were not controlled by Paramount. In both years, there was significant focus by fans and the media on these anniversaries.

Sorry, but you don’t get to tell us that those were not legitimate Trek anniversaries. Poll the fans, and you will be shocked to learn that you will be in a very small minority who wants to movie the anniversary date to some other year. Like it or note, 1966 is the generally accepted year of record for Anniversary years for Star Trek — you don’t get to change it here.

1086. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1085. Frankly, if more Hollywood types took their kids out of Bel Air for a year to experience a different country and culture, their kids likely wouldn’t turn out as bad as all the former Hollywood kids that we see in trouble and in the news all the time.

1087. K-7 - July 22, 2013

Over time, living in France has proven to be much more dangerous than living in England.

Unlike France, England tends to not get its ass kicked in wars and get taken over by foreign powers — like nearly every century for the past 1100 years or so.

1088. Aurore - July 22, 2013

“Why did he agree in the first place if he already knew they are shooting in London ?”
_________

I always thought that he was supposed to move to England with his whole family ( I knew he was a father and a husband ).

However, the Collider article made it sound as though he would move to England without his family . If such is really the case, he may be acting as a man who thought there would be a way to make things work out despite the distance.

But, now ( again, if the rumours are true) he may have some doubts.

1089. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

@ 1086. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013

“@1085. Frankly, if more Hollywood types took their kids out of Bel Air for a year to experience a different country and culture, their kids likely wouldn’t turn out as bad as all the former Hollywood kids that we see in trouble and in the news all the time.”

Yeah, and it is not like they are shooting in Africa or some third world country for God’s sake.

1090. Aurore - July 22, 2013

” Who would move from France to England if they have the choice?”
_______

…One member of my family did….

:))

1091. K-7 - July 22, 2013

@1090

Ah yes, the one with that thing called, “a job.”

Just kidding! ;-)

1092. Aurore - July 22, 2013

“Ah yes, the one with that thing called, ‘a job.’”
_______

No.

The ones with that thing called “a job” all moved to Canada.

:)

1093. Aurore - July 22, 2013

“The ones with that thing called ‘a job’ all moved to Canada.”
______

:))

You liar!

1094. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

Lucasfilm denies the report.

“We reached out to Lucasfilm for official comment. Naturally, they denied the report. “There is no truth to the rumor,” a Lucasfilm rep told us. “JJ is having a great time working on the script and is looking forward to going into production next year.””

http://m.ca.ign.com/articles/2013/07/22/will-jj-abrams-quit-star-wars-episode-vii

1095. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1085. Disco Spock – July 22, 2013

You are confused. I’m not telling you you don’t get to celebrate whatever you want whenever you want. I’m saying nobody gets to do likewise to the marketing department of CBS as to whatever they want to use to market, including the debut anniversary. They are free to pursue hawking stuff however they see fit. And it’s not an ither or. They are free to pursue as many marketing schemes as they want including celebrating your 1991 (sic) (20th?) debut anniversary wrong, just as Paramount did allowing “Star Trek: 25th Anniversary” VG to market in 1992.

I’ve lived through these many similar campaigns with Disney. Can’t wait to see what CBS and/or Paramount come up with for Diamond and Platinum Editions which masquerade as if celebrating something but in reality is just another marketing ploy. But I’m not saying these studios don’t offer something of value, just that they are not beyond trying to market to nuFans who haven’t attended the conventions that you and I have, or even care about the exact conventions used in celebrating the originating show’s debut. They are casting a wider net.

1096. K-7 - July 22, 2013

Disinvited,

Star Trek premiered to the public on Thursday, September 8, 1966. That has ALWAYS been the date that has been used since the 1970′s to measure Trek’s birthday by. I have not run into a single person in 40 years of being a Trek fan — until today with you and Curios Cadet — who has recommended moving the anniversary to an earlier date? wtf?

End of story. Neither your nor CBS get to change this on a whim.

Now maybe if the movie came out in December 2015, on the eve of 2016, and such that the movie would be in release in early 2016 — yes, I could see that working. But under that scenario, I would be shocked if CBS arbitrarily and specifically claimed the the anniversary year was now officially 2015, instead of 2016. They could, however, say things like, “See the new Star Trek movie to celebrate 50 years of Star Trek,”

1097. William Bradley - July 22, 2013

LUCASFILM FLATLY DENIES RUMOR OF J.J. ABRAMS LEAVING STAR WARS

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/22/will-jj-abrams-quit-star-wars-episode-vii?abthid=51edac3c4b9423ec4300001b

“There is no truth to the rumor,” a Lucasfilm rep told us. “JJ is having a great time working on the script and is looking forward to going into production next year.”

1098. Disco Spock - July 22, 2013

“You are confused. I’m not telling you you don’t get to celebrate whatever you want whenever you want. I’m saying nobody gets to do likewise to the marketing department of CBS as to whatever they want to use to market, including the debut anniversary. They are free to pursue hawking stuff however they see fit. And it’s not an ither or. They are free to pursue as many marketing schemes as they want including celebrating your 1991 (sic) (20th?) debut anniversary wrong, just as Paramount did allowing “Star Trek: 25th Anniversary” VG to market in 1992.”

First of all, NO, I disagree that an attempt by CBS’s marketing department would be successful in claiming a different year for the anniversary of Star Trek. This would create a huge uproar on the internet with fans, and would backfire. No one would accept it, and CBS would be the subject of ridicule. And besides, CBS has shown a lot of care in how they have handled upgrading TOS and other Trek series — they just wouldn’t do something that stupid.

Secondly, I left out “20th anniversary in a paragraph in my original post:; It should have read:

“I attended fan-sponsored conventions in the years 1986 and 1991 that celebrated the 20th and 25th Anniversaries of Star Trek. These were not controlled by Paramount. In both years, there was significant focus by fans and the media on these anniversaries.”

So this counters your point about the anniversaries being controlled by Paramount of CBS. We fans ourselves, have done just fine in knowing when our Trek anniversaries are.

1099. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1097. William, thanks…seriously….for clearing this up.

Good to have you back — and I mean that most sincerely.

1100. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

@1097. William Bradley

I already posted the link to the story :)

But as someone on the Force Net forum pointed out, sometime Lucasfilm don’t tell the truth. Check this report from 2010:

Lucasfilm Denies Reports of New Star Wars Features

http://www.vulture.com/2010/10/star_wars.html

1101. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1096 “Star Trek premiered to the public on Thursday, September 8, 1966. That has ALWAYS been the date that has been used since the 1970′s to measure Trek’s birthday by. I have not run into a single person in 40 years of being a Trek fan — until today with you and Curios Cadet — who has recommended moving the anniversary to an earlier date? wtf? End of story. Neither your nor CBS get to change this on a whim.”

Exactly. THAT IS STAR TREK’S ANNIVERSARY!

@1098 “I disagree that an attempt by CBS’s marketing department would be successful in claiming a different year for the anniversary of Star Trek. This would create a huge uproar on the internet with fans, and would backfire. No one would accept it, and CBS would be the subject of ridicule. And besides, CBS has shown a lot of care in how they have handled upgrading TOS and other Trek series — they just wouldn’t do something that stupid.”

Yes, this isn’t going to happen. I guess if Disinvited wants to claim that the CBS marketing department could attempt to change the anniversary, well, we can’t argue with the theoretical nature of that…I mean a 0.1 % probability of something happening still means that it theoretically could happen, right? :-)

1102. William Bradley - July 22, 2013

FROM THE BAD ROBOT TWITTER FEED, 7/16

THE TEASED STAR WARS SCRIPT.

Bad Robot ‏@bad_robot16 Jul
Hot off the presses. Can you guess what’s behind the cover? #FoundAtBR #MysteryScript pic.twitter.com/VFvoxedpqC

https://twitter.com/bad_robot/status/357290014658412544/photo/1

1103. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1100 “But as someone on the Force Net forum pointed out, sometime Lucasfilm don’t tell the truth.”

Ahmed,

Sounds then like Lucasfilm and JJ are made for each other.

;-)

1104. Phil - July 22, 2013

@1100. What? Is it entirely possible that in 2010 Lucasfilm was NOT planning any additional features? Are they not allowed to change their collective minds?

1105. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1096. K-7 – July 22, 2013

Your last sentence made my marketing point. Also, if getting the date right is determined to have a significant marketing impact, CBS can make sure it’s printed right on all their licensed and their own products but that doesn’t mean they have to keep them off the 2015 Christmas shopping season store shelves.

MJ even made this point by pointing out how cars having nothing to do with the next year in their manufacture are still labelled with the following year when introduced to the showroom floor in September of the year previous to that labelled.

1106. William Bradley - July 22, 2013

The 2010 LucasFilm denial was a rebooted series was not false.

The rebooted series came with Disney’s purchase of Lucasfilm, which was last year.

Also, the blogger who “reported” Abrams being out of Star Wars didn’t bother to ask for confirmation or denial from the source or anyone associated. Which is simply basic journalism.

>1099. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013
@1097. William, thanks…seriously….for clearing this up.

Good to have you back — and I mean that most sincerely.

1100. Ahmed – July 22, 2013
@1097. William Bradley

I already posted the link to the story :)

But as someone on the Force Net forum pointed out, sometime Lucasfilm don’t tell the truth. Check this report from 2010:

Lucasfilm Denies Reports of New Star Wars Features

http://www.vulture.com/2010/10/star_wars.html

1107. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1101. Where is that Blade Runner photo analysis machine when we need it?

I mean, if we had device, I’m sure we could see that there is a nude lady through that door, in front of a mirror, that shows a minscule reflection of the top cover of these books which says “Screenplay – Stat Wars Ep 7″ on it, right?

1108. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

@ 1106. William Bradley – July 22, 2013

“Also, the blogger who “reported” Abrams being out of Star Wars didn’t bother to ask for confirmation or denial from the source or anyone associated. Which is simply basic journalism.”

It is almost the same as what happened with Quinto story last week. No sources to confirm the story but still the story was re-posted across the Internet as it was “news”.

However, Collider did mentioned in the article that the Abrams story is still a rumor.

1109. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

It would be an interesting social experiment to go to Comicon with several friends, and try to start major genre rumors like this, and then see in the days following Comicon how much traction they get on the internet?

1110. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

Interesting that all of us, including me, focused on the Abrams story in that report, but not much about the first part of the report regarding the new Star Trek writers!

1111. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1109. My first take on those guys is that they may provide a more sophisticate take on Star Trek. I base this on a rather serious and thoughful novel that they recently completed, which has received rave reviews:

http://readmanybooks.blogspot.com/2013/02/review-of-colin-fischer-by-ashley.html

And this resume looks pretty good as well, in terms of science fiction:

Andromeda (TV series) (2000–2005)
The Twilight Zone (TV series, one episode) (2003)
Agent Cody Banks (Screenplay) (2003)
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (TV series) (2008–2009)
Fringe (TV series) (2009–2010)
X-Men: First Class (Screenplay) (2011)
Thor (Screenplay) (2011)

1112. Craiger - July 22, 2013

Didn’t some think Andromeda went downhill in the later seasons? When they got rid of Romie for awhile and replaced her with Doyle and made Tyr the bad guy?

1113. Craiger - July 22, 2013

Ahmed another thing with the new writers is maybe Anthony found out about them through Orci and now Orci will no longer post here and Anthony wont have exclusive access to the third movie? So Anthony decides to close the site?

1114. Who cares - July 22, 2013

@1110. Unless they were writing for the very, very bad 5th season of Andromeda, if thats the case it does not inspire confidence.

1115. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

MJ,

If Ashley Miller and Zack Stentz are going to write the script without interference from the previous writers, then based on their works, specially X-Men: First Class, I think they will give us an excellent Star Trek movie.

Craiger,

This might be the case but still AP can still approach the new writers in the same way that did with the original team back in 2006.

1116. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1101. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013

From my personal copy of the October 1970 edition of THE MAKING OF STAR TREK by Stephen E. Whitfield and one Gene Roddenberry from PART I: BIRTH PANGS, Chapter 3, pages 45-46:

“Of the three stories submitted, and despite their reservations, NBC chose one entitled THE CAGE. The script based on that story eventually became known as THE MENAGERIE and as a two-part episode won the International Hugo Award for filmed science fiction.

This was the beginning of STAR TREK, a show that has not only affected television but has played a significant role in readying the audience for the recent interest in major motion picture science fiction. That original story has never been printed [which goes on to be printed in outline form on the next page in Chapter 4, STAR TREK, THE CAGE.”

1117. Who cares - July 22, 2013

@1111. To be fair they had replace Rommie for a little while, she was pregnant with her and Michael Shanks (Daniel Jackson SG-1) first child. Also Doyle and Tyr never crossed paths.

1118. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

I have the feeling that Bad Robot is going to pretty much control who directs the next Trek movie, just like they are controlling who these new writers are.

So, unfortunately, we are going to probably see a director from the Bad Robot group — somebody who is getting their first try at a major sf movie. Somebody like Kurtzman.

The one guy I like here who is somewhat connected to Bad Robot (through Person of Interest) would be Jonathan Nolan. He’d be great, and he completed the hard sf screenplay for his bother’s “Interstellar” movie.

But I would love to see Paramount overrule JJ and bring in David Yates to direct this. Yates is the one guy who has RECENTLY prove that he can take an good franchise and make it a great one with latter sequels that are much better movies than earlier ones in the series.

1119. Michael French - July 22, 2013

Quick message from 1st timer :)

Just had to say something -

Box office – omg some of you guys need to get your head out of the clouds about the box office take of STID. In every market except US this film was considerably up on ST 09 which is a massive achievement.
This tells us in the US its kind of met its ceiling plus it was released with Iron Man 3 still doing well. ST 09 stated as massive success – this film makes a lot more globally and suddenly not a big success – budget was still big at £150m for ST 09.
Most importantly though its an ST movie – not Batman or a Marvel movie – and just because its ST it will NEVER be that big no matter who does what with it. What JJ and team have done is recast TOS , kept true to spirit of TOS (best episodes were always full of action and fast paced) and produced two wonderful ST movies that have wide appeal and made loads of money – i suspect exactly what paramount (who are interested in making money) asked them to do.
JJ and team didn’t have to revive our beloved ST but the did by choice did a fantastic job with a franchise that had been in decline with a string of bad shows and very average movies.
I think they deserve some credit from ST fans not just general movie fans.

great site – keep it up :)

1120. Curious Cadet - July 22, 2013

@1096. K-7,
“Curios Cadet — who has recommended moving the anniversary to an earlier date?”

You are mistaken.

1121. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1116

Provide me a quote from 1986 or 1991 that shows either Whitfield or Roddenberry complaining that the 20th or 25th anniversary celebrations — the ones that I and all Star Trek fans already celebrated — are not be celebrated in the right year, and then I will take your selection here as more meaningful in terms of this discussion?

1122. K-7 - July 22, 2013

@Curios Cadet

But you specifically said: “The fact Star Trek was born in 1964 with the Cage, and WNMGB in 1965 gives Trek license to start celebrating whenever they want. ”

That is just wrong. As it has been pointed out, we have in Star Trek history the already celebrated huge anniversary event years of 1986 and 1991.

While perhaps I could see pushing some of the celebration to start in late 2015 as you mention, your idea here for 2014 (i.e, you mention the Cage in 1964) is ridiculous.

Again, you specifically recommended, or at least suggested, 2014 here, not me. So I don’t think I am mistaken?

1123. Craiger - July 22, 2013

Ahmed I wonder what would have happened if Anthony never got in touch with JJ and crew? Would he have ever done Trekmovie if he didn’t? I think Anthony created Trekmovie to get fans closer to the people involved with Trek right? That is another thing I miss about this site. Those early days when we could even chat with JJ from the set. Those days are gone now.

1124. Craiger - July 22, 2013

I think only the Trek fans will care about the 50th Anniversary more so than the general movie going public. They care more about the SW anniversary’s than the Star Trek ones.

1125. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1122. I disagree. The Bond 50th was huge, and Treks should be similar. And Trek’s 25th Anniversary in 1991 was epic, with STVI being a comeback moment for the Franchise in terms of box office.

If ST 2016 is a good movie, then the 50th deal will help it even more. But, certainly, a 50th celebration is not going to help box office if the movie sucks — that goes without saying.

The 50th deal in 2016 can be used most successfully in a marketing campaign to get the domestic box office back up where it should be after Paramount mistakenly took North America fore granted in the STID marketing campaign.

1126. Lemingsworth Bint - July 22, 2013

They should only mention the 50th anniversary in Europe, like they did for Bond.

And the rumors are false.

1127. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

See below — you can go back in five year increments and see how completely consistent the ST anniversary dates are. CASE CLOSED!

‘Star Trek’ Celebrates Its 45th Anniversary in Las Vegas
Gregory Weinkauf
Huffington Post
Posted: 08/22/11 02:18 PM ET

PARAMOUNT GEARS UP FOR STAR TREK 40TH ANNIVERSARY
By Michelle
September 21, 2005 – 8:27 PM
Paramount is gearing up to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Star Trek in 2006 with a huge convention in Las Vegas and new merchandise. But without a Star Trek series on the air, the studio will be unable to repeat its 30th anniversary festivities, which included a television special plus flashback episodes of Deep Space Nine and Voyager.

TV Guides 35th Anniversary Tribute To Star Trek
July 22, 2002 – 2 Different Covers But Same Content.

Star Trek: 30 Years and Beyond (1996)
TV Special – 90 min – Documentary
A celebration of Star Trek’s 30th anniversary.

1128. crazydaystrom - July 22, 2013

@1119. Michael French -
Welcome to the trekmovie madness. :-)

Your statement “…because its ST it will NEVER be that big no matter who does what with it.” at first saddened me because it certainly may be true. But ‘never’ is a long time. And I tend to take issue with absolute statements as it would seem there are comparatively and relatively few absolutes in the universe as we know it. Of course I could be absolutely wrong about that.

Star Trek lives. And can live large in the right and favorable conditions. One day this just might happen. Fingers crossed. I’m an optimist.

1129. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1119

Mr. French, I could not agree with you more.

Welcome as a new poster to this site. You are now part of a family affair.

1130. Jonboc - July 22, 2013

Michael French- well said….and welcome!

1131. Jonboc - July 22, 2013

…and well done MJ, Sebastian Cabot would be proud! Lol

1132. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

@1119. Michael French

Welcome to the arena :)

oh and I disagree with what you said there about Abrams, but that for another time

1133. Mitchell - July 22, 2013

@1118. MJ (The Original).
disagree with Yates. He sucked all the charm out of those later movies. David Yates is a capable director but god awful boring. no camera movement, no creativity with scenes or editing. Potter fans are still baffled how he was able to take all the air and fun out of some of the most epic sequences.

he would be what you fear and just wind up taking orders from “higher ups”.
also given his own statements and those of his actors he’s worked with the chances are great he won’t challenge the cast to do much of anything but line reading.

Jonathan Nolan on the other hand would be brilliant. He took David Goyer and Chris Nolan’s story for The Dark Knight and raised it to the level of masterpiece.

1134. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1133

OK, well, not being a Potter fan, and just seeing all the movies myself, I vastly preferred his later entries to what I perceived as the “silly” earlier movies, which seemed to lack substance from my POV. His Potter movies seemed to have a gravitas that the earlier movies lacked…I finally cared about the characters. But again, I am not a Potter fan and never read the books.

1135. Keachick - July 22, 2013

I do think we are in need of a change. Check out the Enterprise captain these fine days….LOL!!!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2365232/FIRST-LOOK-Star-Treks-Chris-Pine-bearded-billionaire-forthcoming-movie-Stretch.html

1136. Mitchell - July 22, 2013

I tended to enjoy the earlier one’s more. I found them charming. Yates is certainly capable as i said, he won’t make any amateur mistakes. Three or four of my favorite moments are in his films, i however took the gravitas of those latter films to be the product of the material becoming more that as it approached it’s climax but like you i’m not a Potter fan either so i can’t say for sure, only take what i’ve heard from fans and friends.
More than likely he would do a fine job, i’m just hoping for something more for Star Trek’s 50th.

My dream that i think is plausible at the moment would be Paramount luring Ridley Scott in to direct a screenplay by Jonathan Nolan based on a story outline from Orci, Lindelof and co.

1137. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

Ridley Scott on Trek would be like winning the lottery.

1138. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1135. Wow, he looks pretty wild. If I saw that guy in the orange jumpsuit, carrying that briefcase, and with that long beard, I think I would get off the airplane and get a later flight. LOL

1139. Ahmed - July 22, 2013

@ 1137. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013

“Ridley Scott on Trek would be like winning the lottery.”

Indeed, unless of course the script is written by Lindelof

@ 1135. Keachick – July 22, 2013

“I do think we are in need of a change. Check out the Enterprise captain these fine days….LOL!!!”

lol, that is one hell of a crappy beard. Thanks for sharing the news :)

1140. Curious Cadet - July 22, 2013

@1122. K-7,
“you specifically recommended, or at least suggested, 2014 here, not me. So I don’t think I am mistaken?”

That is entirely your inference, taken out of context. Not my argument at all. You are mistaken.

1141. K-7 - July 22, 2013

@Curious Cadet: “That is entirely your inference, taken out of context. Not my argument at all. You are mistaken.”

No, I don’t think so. You specifically said:

“The fact Star Trek was born in 1964 with the Cage, and WNMGB in 1965 gives Trek license to start celebrating whenever they want. ”

So it is more than an inference for anyone reading this statement of yours to just simply add 50 years to this and say 2014 as the 50th anniversary of Star Trek being based on The Cage from 1964 is exactly what you are referring to. Come on, we can all do the math.

If you would like to retract this statement, then just retract it? There is no need to pretend that I am misunderstanding your comments. If you made a mistake in you post, then just say so, and let’s move on?

1142. Disco Spock - July 22, 2013

K-7,

What do you know, when I start with the Cage in 1964 as the Star Trek birth year as Curious Cadet suggests could be done by CBS, and then add 50 years to it, I also get 2014 as the 50th Anniversary year date.

LOL

1143. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

Guys, perhaps CC is using a Logarithmic scale or maybe Boolean Algebra to add 50 to 1964?

1144. Other Guy - July 22, 2013

AICN is saying Paramount has hired NEW writers for ST3! Sounds Great to me!

Thank you for your best efforts, boborci.

NEXT!

1145. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1144

Guess you missed the AICN update, dude — it is now right on top of the article your referenced:

“HARRY HERE – none of this is true. This is all the product of terrible reporting. JJ is making STAR WARS and the writer bit on Star Trek is also wrong. FYI.”

1146. Other Guy - July 22, 2013

OK. That what the headline said, anyhow.

The article quickly back tracks on that claim.

1147. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

Other Guy, hey, no problem. I would like to see some new writers added as well.

Memo to Curious Cadet — see, it is OK to admit you are in error here once in awhile. It’s no big deal as we all make mistakes. Your face-saving approach to posting here all the time just makes you look amateurish.

1148. rfk - July 22, 2013

I wonder if Disney noticed that the Star Trek (reboot) franchise had more momentum before STID than after. And they don’t want to trust their new multi-billion investment to someone that delivered 2/3 of a movie after 4 years that’s already been largely forgotten.

Perhaps they’re looking for a way to ditch JJ but let him save face, since ultimately Disney is really to blame for Disney hiring him.

1149. Mitchell - July 22, 2013

@1137. MJ (The Original). -
HA HA HA! So True. However If he is truly weighing whether he should direct Top Gun 2 for his brother then Paramount would be mad to not get down on their knees and beg him to helm Star Trek for the 50th.
Scott has definitely displayed great interest in Trek over the years and especially recently. (Since “returning” to sci-fi)

@1139. Ahmed -
Ouch! lol oh man why did you have to remind us all of Prometheus.

1150. Matt Wright - July 22, 2013

The flaw in the 1964 logic, is that the anniversary of Star Trek has always been about the actual debut of the series (i.e. the day The Man Trap aired), not the unaired (and unseen by most people until the mid-80′s) and passed-over pilot made in 1964. Star Trek’s official birthday has always been considered September 8, 1966. Hence why the huge 25th anniversary celebration was in 1991, etc. etc.

1151. Curious Cadet - July 22, 2013

@1141 K-7,

That’s right, I “specifically recommended” that the official anniversary date should be 2014, when no movie could possibly be made in time, just like MJ “specifically recommended” that the sequel should be pushed back to December 2016 to accommodate Abrams schedule and allow him to direct.

“If Star Wars comes out in May 2015. and ST-3 comes out in December 2016 for the 50th Anniversary, that is a 17-month gap…So I think some of you are overstating the case that JJ couldn’t do both. And I would actually prefer a holiday release for Trek — I think it is a better fit for Star Trek.” — MJ (The Original).”

/s

By all means continue to infer whatever you like.

1152. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1127. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013

As I’ve said:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/27061/message/1117918844/40th+Anniversary+Kick-Off+of+Star+Trek+~+Seattle+%2B+More

“CREATION SALUTES STAR TREK:
The 40th Anniversary Kick-Off Begins in 2005!”

The marketing is determined by the demands of marketing and not the conventional wisdom.

1153. Red Dead Ryan - July 22, 2013

#1150. Matt Wright.

“The flaw in the 1964 logic, is that the anniversary of Star Trek has always been about the actual debut of the series (i.e. the day The Man Trap aired), not the unaired (and unseen by most people until the mid-80′s) and passed-over pilot made in 1964. Star Trek’s official birthday has always been considered September 8, 1966. Hence why the huge 25th anniversary celebration was in 1991, etc. etc.”

Yup! Well said! I think its CASE CLOSED on this argument. I’m not really sure how either Curious Cadet or Disinvited can continue to argue against the evidence, but they sure as heck can’t, or won’t, admit to being wrong here.

Case closed, folks. Case closed. Time to argue about something else, I think! :-)

1154. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1150 / Matt Wright: “The flaw in the 1964 logic, is that the anniversary of Star Trek has always been about the actual debut of the series (i.e. the day The Man Trap aired), not the unaired (and unseen by most people until the mid-80′s) and passed-over pilot made in 1964. Star Trek’s official birthday has always been considered September 8, 1966. Hence why the huge 25th anniversary celebration was in 1991, etc. etc.”

E X A C T L Y ! ! ! ! !

1155. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

Curious Cadet,

Anyone here can read in your post that you said “1964″ and “The Cage.”

Please stop trying to reinvent what you said. It is getting rather annoying.

We need a new topic?

1156. MJ (The Original). - July 22, 2013

@1152. Hey Disinvited, I will grant you that you could start the Anniversary celebration at the end of year preceding it. But your sidekick’s suggestion of 2014 (based on The Cage from 1964) is completely DOA. Nope, you can’t start the Anniversary two fracking years early — that strains all sense of credibility.

1157. Disinvited - July 22, 2013

#1156. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013

I think I’ll take a concession from you when I can get it. However, please note that Creation started their 40th celebration at the beginning of August of 2005 which is even before the date of what is regarded as the official 39th Anniversary.

And not that you need this, because I believe you are more than aware of my fan bona fides but others seem to require it: I knew to check Creation Con because I’ve been to Cons from the 70s on and was more than aware of the outrageous liberties Creation, as dully licensed by Paramount, took in marketing to me. And, yes, guilty of having actually attended a Creation Con.

I not saying you are wrong about 2014, but if you’ve had any dealings with Creation, as I have, I doubt you’d be so certain.

1158. Marja - July 23, 2013

1135 Keachick, Funny, he kind of reminds me of 1966 Khan … with a beard

1159. Curious Cadet - July 23, 2013

@1150. Matt Wright,
“Star Trek’s official birthday has always been considered September 8, 1966.”

While I agree that’s technically accurate, I don’t see any reason to wait until September 2016 to start celebrating, much less entertain MJ’s ridiculous endorsement and recommendation that Paramount should wait until December 2016 — three and a half years!! — to release the sequel to STID, just to accommodate JJ Abrams ability to direct both Star Wars and Star Trek. True anniversary date or no, MJ’s unbelievable recommendation to wait until December 2016 is much too late to unveil the celebration’s centerpiece, and waiting that long so Abrams can first put all of his energy into Star Wars would be a major mistake, doing a great disservice to the franchise.

1160. Aurore - July 23, 2013

Regarding what could happen next :

“Given that the Gene Roddenberry series debuted in 1966 and we’ve just had a huge Bond 50-year anniversary celebration – has Paramount been talking to you about making a 2016 release date for the next Star Trek film?

We’re definitely talking about the next one, but we haven’t talked about a release date. We don’t want to wait four years, the same amount of time between the last one and this one, but it’s going to be a big year to celebrate, hopefully.

So Bad Robot will still be able to balance working on both Star Trek and Star Wars?

Yeah. Obviously they’re completely different universes, they’re completely different films. The only thing in common is the word ‘Star’, which is why we’re going to do the Ringo Starr movie as well. We’ll corner the market!

http://trekmovie.com/2013/03/11/bryan-burk-hints-next-star-trek-movie-could-arrive-in-2016/

______________

…Thus spoke someone “in the know”, some time ago.

(Apologies if this has already been posted on this thread.)

1161. Phil - July 23, 2013

@1159. I have no problem celebrating over a period of a year (or two), and not necessarily a calendar year, so 9/15 to 9/16, 3/16 to 3/17, 9/15 to 12/16, or 9/15 to 9/18, for that matter.

I still like the idea of a two part movie, with release dates of 9/15 and 9/16.

9/8/2016 is a Thursday, and 9/5 is a holiday. I suspect they will figure this out. In the meantime, do we really need a reason to pour a drink, relax a bit, and maybe celebrate a bit early?

1162. William Bradley - July 23, 2013

It is not widely known, but the actual anniversary date for D-Day is not June 6, 1944 but June 1, 1942.

Because that is when Franklin Roosevelt and General Marshall decided to invade France.

All these celebrations of D-Day on June 6th, every year since 1944, have been in error.

:)

>1154. MJ (The Original). – July 22, 2013
@1150 / Matt Wright: “The flaw in the 1964 logic, is that the anniversary of Star Trek has always been about the actual debut of the series (i.e. the day The Man Trap aired), not the unaired (and unseen by most people until the mid-80′s) and passed-over pilot made in 1964. Star Trek’s official birthday has always been considered September 8, 1966. Hence why the huge 25th anniversary celebration was in 1991, etc. etc.”

E X A C T L Y ! ! ! ! !

1163. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

@1159

That’s funny!!! :-))

My point was that some people here saying that it was not even possible for JJ to do both, and still make the anniversary year of 2016, were wrong. He could do both movies if nuTrek 3 were released in Nov/Dec 2016.

Do I want this to happen? No — I would prefer a new director be brought in and we get a movie in either May 2016, or December 2015. And this would fit the anniversary celebration year of 2016.

But could it happen with the calender for JJ to have SWe7 relased in May 2105 and nuTrek3 released in December 2016? Sure it could, if Paramount and JJ negotiate it that way. And this would fit the anniversary celebration year of 2016.

So my argument here was simply for people to stop falsely claiming that it would be impossible for JJ to do both, and still make the 2016 anniversary. But again, my personal preference is that the guy concentrate on SW now, and that we get a new director for nuTrek3, and have the move released earlier in 2016, or even say December 2015.

1164. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

@1162. “All these celebrations of D-Day on June 6th, every year since 1944, have been in error. :)”

;-) LOL — good analogy!

1165. Phil - July 23, 2013

@1162. Au contraire, once the decision was made the date was, in fact, June 5, 1944. Why oh why would a weather front make a difference to the most powerful armada ever assembled is beyond me, but 6/5/44 was the date. Damnit, we need clarity here!!

1166. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

#1163. MJ (The Original). – July 23, 2013

I’m not sure what others have been arguing to you but I think that now that we’ve established the marketing window is much wider than the year of the 40th Anniversary itself, this makes the possibility of a JJ directing MORE likely.

1167. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

#1164. Phil – July 23, 2013

Well, we aren’t going to get it in our country where they move major observances to the nearest Monday because having a 3 day weekend is determined to be the most proper manner to show reverence for its many solemn occasions’ anniversaries.

1168. Ahmed - July 23, 2013

@ 1163. MJ (The Original). – July 23, 2013

“My point was that some people here saying that it was not even possible for JJ to do both, and still make the anniversary year of 2016, were wrong. He could do both movies if nuTrek 3 were released in Nov/Dec 2016.”

I highly doubt that Abrams will finish SW by 2015, more likely they will pushed it back to 2016. SW movies usually take like 3 years to finish because of the heavy amount of CGIs in the movies.

And really, I don’t want Star Trek to be delayed to December 2016 for any reason.

1169. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

#1163. MJ (The Original). – July 23, 2013

I wonder if NOW would be the time to mention that the widely celebrated STAR WARS DAY is based solely on a pun as its only connection to that historic creation?

1170. philip - July 23, 2013

Does anyone like Insurrection a little more, now that it has been a few years?

I just wrote up a little something on how Insurrection and Into Darkness at least share a bond of providing some sort of social allegory for the real world.. Feel free to post some comments on the page. Good debate item.

http://pgsrealmoviereviews.blogspot.com/2013/07/star-trek-into-darkness-and-star-trek.html

1171. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

Difficult to see how this might affect Trek on TV:

http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2013/7/23/viacom_revives_paramount_television_studio_eyeing.htm

“July 23–Media giant Viacom Inc. is reviving the Paramount Television studio, a storied production company that once made such television jewels as “Star Trek,” “Cheers,” “Frasier” and “Family Ties.”

Viacom surrendered its Paramount TV production capabilities as part of a corporate split that created separate publicly traded companies, Viacom Inc. and CBS Corp.

Viacom held on to the Paramount Pictures movie studio and its stable of lucrative cable channels, including Nickelodeon and MTV, and CBS claimed the valuable Paramount Television library and production arm, which makes not only prime-time fare but also syndicated shows such as “Entertainment Tonight.”

CBS rebranded the studio CBS Television Studios.

Paramount will have to build its TV production studio from scratch, an endeavor the company estimated could take as long as five years. Powell said Paramount would be selective in its projects.

The company probably will scour its movie vault for potential TV content.

Earlier this year, Paramount formed a high-profile partnership with Sony Pictures Television to develop a TV show based on the blockbuster Paramount movie “Beverly Hills Cop,” which starred Eddie Murphy. CBS did not pick up the series, but the episode illustrated how some of Paramount’s assets could be adapted for TV.

Unlike the recent venture with Sony, Paramount plans to control the financing and production of its projects, Powell said. Although Paramount lacks a TV distribution network, it intends to develop projects for some of Viacom’s cable channels, including MTV, Powell said.

Powell also will continue to serve as head of Paramount’s small-budget film division, Insurge Pictures.” – YellowBrix

But I suppose if Paramount were to buy Trek from CBS as some suggest, this means it won’t be on the air for another 5 years?

1172. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

Well,

http://www.deadline.com/2013/07/marvel-guardians-of-the-galaxy-start-of-production-glenn-close-nova-prime/

“BURBANK, CALIF. (July 23, 2013) – “Guardians of the Galaxy,” the next epic adventure from Marvel Studios has started shooting at the UK’s Shepperton Studios. Directed by James Gunn (“Slither,”“Super”) from his screenplay, with a story by Nicole Perlman and Gunn, the film will introduce audiences to a whole new side of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.”

Zoe may be sidelined from any possible Trek film for the next few months.

1173. Ahmed - July 23, 2013

@ 1171. Disinvited – July 23, 2013

“Zoe may be sidelined from any possible Trek film for the next few months.”

Good, they can write her character off, maybe on an away mission & will appear only in the final scene of the movie or something.

1174. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

George and Gracie’s revenge:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/07/scuba-divers-almost-swallowed-by-whales/

Odo is that you?:

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/07/23/strange-particles-shape-shift-from-one-flavor-to-another/

1175. Craiger - July 23, 2013

Lucasfilm denies JJ leaving SW:

http://www.themarysue.com/abrams-not-leaving-star-wars-vii/

1176. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

I predict that Guardians of the Universe will the be first, in what is going to be a series of Marvel flops.

Marvel’s over-reaching, and people are going to get tired of the comic book movies by next year.

1177. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

@1171. Yea, I read that today as well.

Viacom now has the option of moving TV Trek from their CBS Division into this new Paramount TV division (Under the Paramount subsidiary), if and when they want to do that.

If nothing else, this move will make their CBS Division more likely to cooperate with Paramount on Trek’s future, or the might risk Viacom stepping in and giving Trek TV back to Paramount.

This is good news for Star Trek. I look for CBS to be more of a team player now with Paramount on Star Trek.

1178. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

#1164. Phil – July 23, 2013

Also on that June 5 date, Ike decided to cover any eventuality and composed this:

“Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops [he struck "have been withdrawn. This particular operation"]. My decision to attack at this time and place was based upon the best information available. The troops, the air and the navy did all that bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt, it is mine alone. July 5 ”

But misdated it July 5. Or was he mulling an even later delay?

1179. Keachick - July 23, 2013

#1162 – “It is not widely known, but the actual anniversary date for D-Day is not June 6, 1944 but June 1, 1942.
Because that is when Franklin Roosevelt and General Marshall decided to invade France.
All these celebrations of D-Day on June 6th, every year since 1944, have been in error.”

Not for the soldiers (and their families) who lost their lives on that day in JUNE 1944! and in the days to come. The celebrations/memorials are about the impact of a plan on the people who actually took part on D-Day. Ideas, plans, scenarios can be around for a long time, but until someone actually puts these notions into action where it actually impacts on people, they mean little or nothing at all.

Ordinary people in the US got to see for the first time on their TV screens a Star Trek episode, (which was not even the first episode made) and that is what matters. As far as I am concerned, 1967 was probably the year I should celebrate because that is when the first episode of the Star Trek series screened here on NZ television. However, I am more than happy to celebrate with US viewers on 8 September 2016 or thereabouts!

8 September 2016 can be seen as a target date, where something like the release of the third movie in this Star Trek series could happen. It would certainly make sense to fans! However, the release does not need to happen on that date only. It could happen earlier – most likely in the same year, 2016. Given how long it takes to get a movie made and released, three years from now looks very doable, maybe even for the present Bad Robot team. It really depends on the will, desire and/or obstacles that may be present for members of the team, etc.

I have worked out a possible scenario that could take place as part of the great big party that Paramount and others, who have gained financial benefit for the Star Trek franchise over the past 47-50 years, will put on for all the cast, writers, producers, crew (past and present). This will, of course, be filmed so that fans, who cannot be present, will be able to see and feel a part of the great big fun “bash”…. Blu-Ray/DVDs (both mediums presenting the same footage – no more, no less) will be available later on the INTERNATIONAL market – at cost.

A very interesting event occurs at the party where prime universe people get together. Scotty, being a miracle worker in both universes, manages to open a door between the prime universe and the alternate universe just long enough to allow Pine/Kirk and his crew, and others, to come through and take part in the ongoing celebrations. Pegg/Scotty, enjoying his Scotch whiskey as much as the prime Scotty (who, sadly, cannot be available) must ensure that he remains just sober enough to make sure that the magical door remains open so that he and his Pine/Kirk captain, along with Quinto/Spock, Urban/McCoy and all those other lovely people can safely return to their own universe without any damage being done to themselves or either universes… Tricky stuff, to be sure, but doable!

1180. Keachick - July 23, 2013

Edit – “….gained financial benefit FROM the Star Trek franchise…”

1181. MJ (The Original) - July 23, 2013

Keachick,

I LIKE IT !!!!!

1182. William Bradley - July 23, 2013

Do I really have to attach a big JOKE sign to an obvious joke?

>1178. Keachick – July 23, 2013
#1162 – “It is not widely known, but the actual anniversary date for D-Day is not June 6, 1944 but June 1, 1942.
Because that is when Franklin Roosevelt and General Marshall decided to invade France.
All these celebrations of D-Day on June 6th, every year since 1944, have been in error.”

Not for the soldiers (and their families) who lost their lives on that day in JUNE 1944! and in the days to come. The celebrations/memorials are about the impact of a plan on the people who actually took part on D-Day. Ideas, plans, scenarios can be around for a long time, but until someone actually puts these notions into action where it actually impacts on people, they mean little or nothing at all.

1183. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

#1176. MJ (The Original). – July 23, 2013

You are confused CBS and Viacom split (2005-2006) and have no connection other than Redstone’s holding corporation. He purposely separated them because he thought putting them at each other’s….errrr….”competition” would be healthy and make him more dough.

nuViacom’s only real option to get total control of Trek is to get Moonves to agree to sell which is unlikely. The heads of both units each believes he was wrongfully denied his rightful throne to a Paramount Entertainment Empire because of the other. Their actions to this day are obvious attempts to rebuild/regain the missing bits of the parts with which each were left.

The only thing that might lead Les to give up STAR TREK would be to trade Viacom/Paramount for some film properties that he thinks will give his CBS film unit some motion picture studio cred. But I don’t see either party budging especially if either perceives that a deal gives the other party an advantage in some way no matter how small.

1184. Keachick - July 23, 2013

Thank you, MJ.

Another factor that I have considered is when this party will occur. If it happens before the release of the next film, then it is more than likely that Pine/Kirk and his people will suffer from a kind of short term amnesia where there are gaps in their memories going back two or three years say…eg Pine/Kirk keeps feeling that someone is missing from the group who came with him through the “magical door” and keeps looking around as if to say “Who’s there?” or maybe he starts growing his hair or beard at a vastly accelerated rate and has no idea why – in this case Keachick probably knows why but she ain’t saying…:), but no matter – a good pair of barber scissors will deal with the problem, for a while at least… With these memory gaps, where these alternate universe guys and gals have been and done (which no one can really know too much, if anything, about until the movie gets its cinematic release) could make for an extra interesting and very fun party – for all!…:)!

1185. Keachick - July 23, 2013

#1181 – So wasn’t I laughing? Stop being an ass, William Bradley. This is the internet where I can neither see nor hear you. Unless you intimate that you are telling a joke, people may not necessarily realize that you are telling a joke. Clearly, if what you wrote was a joke, it was not a good one, otherwise people would be LOLing everywhere. They are not – anything but. At least, that’s how it seems to me.

1186. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

I bring this up, not because I’m sure it signifies anything as the practice is still common even as recent as the SD ComiCon. But it is common knowledge that Gene first showed Trek episodes to the public before they aired on NBC at a science fiction convention. I believe one was definitely the Shatner pilot, the other I’m fuzzy about, (MANTRAP? Or maybe, THE CORBOMITE MANEUVER? ) and he may have even shown THE CAGE.

1187. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

@1182. I may not have explained myself right, but the money guy at the top of the empire might very well be setting up this internal competition, and the checks and balances to go with it, to bring more financial success to both the companies. And I would assume the Redstone group does enough basic research to know what you and I here know — the one of the reasons the JJ left was because the ST marketing is divided across two companies, and their is not a common plan for Star Trek.

This step may very well force these companies to work together — because they are losing money if they don’t — and if they don’t work together, don’t be surprised if you have underestimated the power of the holding company — they might force ST being sold from CBS back to Paramount if they feel that both companies are screwing with their opportunity for more gold.

As an analogy, you don’t think that the CEO of BNSF gets to make the really big decisions, do you? Nope, WB gets to make those, and I’m not talking about William Bradley — I’m talking about Warren Buffet.

1188. William Bradley - July 23, 2013

Keachick, you don’t get the obvious joke, so naturally you call me an obscenity.

Nice.

BTW, I DID “INTIMATE” THAT IT IS A JOKE, on the off chance that someone would have no sense of irony, by including a smiley emoticon at the end of the joke.

And naturally, you left that out in your quotation of what I wrote.

Nice again.

>1184. Keachick – July 23, 2013
#1181 – So wasn’t I laughing? Stop being an ass, William Bradley. This is the internet where I can neither see nor hear you. Unless you intimate that you are telling a joke, people may not necessarily realize that you are telling a joke. Clearly, if what you wrote was a joke, it was not a good one, otherwise people would be LOLing everywhere. They are not – anything but. At least, that’s how it seems to me.

1189. William Bradley - July 23, 2013

Actually, it came off as very clever and funny at Comic-Con.

Kudos to Marvel for employing humor and taking risks.

One of the most irritating and unproductive things about this message board is the constant ill will toward other science fiction movies.

It ain’t a zero sum game.

>1175. MJ (The Original). – July 23, 2013
I predict that Guardians of the Universe will the be first, in what is going to be a series of Marvel flops.

Marvel’s over-reaching, and people are going to get tired of the comic book movies by next year.

1190. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

@1189. William, did you run into Bob Orci or Anthony Pascale at Comicon?

1191. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

@1189. I am on record here for liking a lot of other science fiction movies and series. My comment is more of an over-saturation of one movie type –Marvel comic book movies — which the public will inevitably get tired of. Marvel, in my opinion, is going overboard with their huge lineup of movies nearly every season for the next several years. It is recipe for box office disaster.

Take Pacific Rim — which I really liked — the public is getting tired with what they perceive as “Big Robots/Transformers” types of movies. And the public got tired of Godzilla type of movies decades ago; the “trick” of a “personal experience” type of Godzilla movie in Cloverfield being one unique exception. And remember, Pacific Rim was a big hit at last years Comicon, just as you are saying Guardians was at this years Comicon.

1192. Craiger - July 23, 2013

MJ, something’s got to happening because I don’t Anthony’s ever been out this long. Or he has decided he has grown tired of Trekmovie and let expire without telling us with a Trekmovie goodbye message?

1193. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

Craiger,

I am not joking when I say this. If this sites domain registration expires next month or later, and the domain can be purchased for a reasonable sum, say $5K, then I am seriously considering pulling the trigger and buying it, and starting a new Trekmovie.com myself.

I doubt I am the only person here considering this.

1194. Craiger - July 23, 2013

A bidding war for Trekmovie.com. :)

1195. Craiger - July 23, 2013

Unless Anthony has Trekmovie on auto renewal or reads his email saying Trekmovie is about to expire please renew now?

1196. Disco Spock - July 23, 2013

W Bradley made some comments several weeks back that might lead one to wonder whether he is trying to buy this site???

1197. Basement Blogger - July 23, 2013

@ 1193

Well if you buy the site, I hope you can get rid of the trolls.

1198. Ahmed - July 23, 2013

@ 1193. MJ (The Original). – July 23, 2013

“I am not joking when I say this. If this sites domain registration expires next month or later, and the domain can be purchased for a reasonable sum, say $5K, then I am seriously considering pulling the trigger and buying it, and starting a new Trekmovie.com myself.”

I check two different domain name appraisals sites and came with two very different results:

The first one, sitepriceDOTcom put Trekmovie at 83K & the second one, estibotDOTcom put it at only 8K !!

So either way, Trekmovie will cost more than the 5K my friend :)

This is all just speculations, for we all know as Craiger pointed out, AP might already has Trekmovie on auto renewal

1199. Marja - July 23, 2013

1167 Disinvited, I hear your irony and second it. I cannot say how much it disappoints me to hear “Have a happy Memorial Day weekend!” – they’re thinking of backyard barbecue and I’m thinking of all the soldiers, sailors, Coasties and Marines whose sacrifice we’re supposed to be honoring …. I guess I have no objection to a parade on that day, as long as Remembrance of our servicemen and women is involved. And speaking of Remembrance …. 11/11 too.

Re yr 1171, “July 23–Media giant Viacom Inc. is reviving the Paramount Television studio, a storied production company that once made such television jewels as “Star Trek” I guess the reporter forgot that Desilu was the Star Trek studio for the first two years of the show. ST kinda ceased to be a “jewel” in the third season when Paramount took over …. not their fault tho.
===========================

1177 “This is good news for Star Trek. I look for CBS to be more of a team player now with Paramount on Star Trek.” MJ, Your lips to God’s ear! I just wonder how much merchandising money Paramount/Bad Robot could expect to make, though. Would it be multimillions? Just curious, I know nuffink about that stuff.

And I agree with your post 1176 on the comic book superhero movies. The series that are out now are fine, I love Marvel’s humor about the characters and so on, but I can’t say I’d want to see 3 or 4 superhero movies every summer. Really, Marvel’s got to be careful about beating the comics superhero thing into the ground. And I sure don’t want Lt Uhura to be missing in the next ST movie ‘cos of any conflict with Ms Saldana’s appearing in Guardians of the Galaxy. She’s already portraying a guardian of the galaxy in Star Trek : )
============================

TrekMovie expiration: ACT NOW, chances may be limited! Maybe a few folks could buy it as a co-op … LOL, what am I SAYING … not the way folks argue in here sometimes : P

1200. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

Hmm, 8K is more difficult, but still doable for me. That is about my limit though.

1201. Phil - July 23, 2013

@1182. I got it…..

1202. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

Marja, that is an interesting idea. If three to four us of here put in say $2 to $3K each to buy this site, then we would have the four of us to split up the management and initial work on the site to get it going. If the new site could be brought up to speed quickly, then I would be we could start with at least half the monthly revenue that Trekmovie is doing now — say $4K per month. We could recoup our initial investment within three to four months.

Regarding us all fighting a lot, I don’t know about you, but I bitch a lot less and make less trouble when my personal money is on the line. :-))

1203. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

#1200. MJ (The Original). – July 23, 2013

An $8k investment that’ll pay you back, by your own estimation, by the end of a month of operation? You may have wanted to not show those cards so quickly.

1204. Phil - July 23, 2013

@1202. Hell, you would not have any problems finding content. Just need a few spies in SoCal for the occasional bit of legwork, and you are up and running.

Just avoid the TrekWeb format, it’s seizure inducing….

1205. William Bradley - July 23, 2013

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT ON “GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY” STARRING ZOE SALDANA AND SOME OTHER PEOPLE WITH A BUNCH OF OSCAR NOMINATIONS

BURBANK, CALIF. (July 23, 2013) – Guardians of the Galaxy, the next epic adventure from Marvel Studios has started shooting at the UK’s Shepperton Studios. Directed by James Gunn (Slither, Super) from his screenplay, with a story by Nicole Perlman and Gunn, the film will introduce audiences to a whole new side of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The all-star cast includes Chris Pratt (Zero Dark Thirty, Moneyball) as Peter Quill aka Star-Lord, Zoe Saldana (Star Trek Into Darkness, Avatar) as Gamora, Dave Bautista (Riddick) as Drax the Destroyer, Lee Pace (The Hobbit, Lincoln) as Ronan the Accuser, Michael Rooker (AMC’s The Walking Dead) as Yondu, Karen Gillan (BBC TV’s Doctor Who) as Nebula, two-time Academy Award nominee Djimon Hounsou (Amistad, Gladiator) as Korath, with Academy Award winner Benicio del Toro (Traffic) as The Collector, Academy Award nominee John C. Reilly (Chicago) as Rhomann Dey, and six-time Academy Award nominee Glenn Close (Albert Nobbs, Fatal Attraction) as Nova Prime. Marvel’s Guardians of the Galaxy is slated for an August 1, 2014 release in the U.S.

Marvel Studios’ President Kevin Feige is producing the film. The executive producers are Louis D’Esposito, Victoria Alonso, Jeremy Latcham, Alan Fine and Stan Lee; the co-producer is Nik Korda.

The creative team includes director of photography Ben Davis, BSC (Wrath of the Titans, Kick-Ass), production designer Charles Wood (Thor: The Dark World), BAFTA-nominated Editor Fred Raskin (Django Unchained, Fast Five) and Academy Award-winning editor Hughes Winborne, A.C.E. (“The Help,” “Crash”), and Academy Award winning costume designer Alexandra Byrne (Marvel’s The Avengers, Elizabeth The Golden Age). The film will also shoot at Longcross Studios, and locations in and around London.

1206. Ahmed - July 23, 2013

@1205. William Bradley

I wonder why James Gunn didn’t object to shooting in London ? Haven’t he heard that London is such a bad place that a great director like Abrams refused to move there ? :)

On a serious note, I never read or heard about the Guardians of the Galaxy before the news broke out about the movie version, but will keep an eye on the movie. After all, it is not like we are getting lot of space based movies these days.

1207. Keachick - July 23, 2013

#1188/1189 – I did not notice the emoticon and I was not at the Comic Con, thereby rendering the comment irrelevant.

I did not *naturally* do anything. It was presumptuous of you to assume that. It is easy to see how someone might call you a bad word.

1208. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

@1205

I do have a man-crush on Michael Rooker. One of the most underrated actors around.

@1203

“An $8k investment that’ll pay you back, by your own estimation, by the end of a month of operation? You may have wanted to not show those cards so quickly.”

Well, I really don’t nee the trouble of doing this, so if someone else get’s it, I won’t be crying. The money would be nice, for sure, but this would be a lot of work, and I already have a day job.

1209. MJ (The Original). - July 23, 2013

….and I am compulsive regarding work. I would NEVER be taking long breaks and leaving the site with no content…and when I did take a week or two for vacation, I would have others filling it.

Which is why I probably shouldn’t do this. Too much work and commitment, given I have three kids and my main job.

1210. Disinvited - July 23, 2013

#1199. Marja – July 23, 2013

Nice to have your second, thanks.

#1207. Keachick – July 23, 2013

BTW good to hear you Kiwis are doing well.

1211. Who cares - July 24, 2013

@1205. Yeah I just wish it was the original 30th century Guardians of the Galaxy, not the current 20th century version, still the movie will have one of my favorite Marvel villains of all time, namely Thanos The Mad Titan, who supplied the army Loki used in the Avengers.

1212. Keachick - July 24, 2013

I just read this IMDb poster’s personal review of two Star Trek films and I agree with the review.

http://pgsrealmoviereviews.blogspot.com/2013/07/star-trek-into-darkness-and-star-trek.html

1213. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

@1212

Thanks Rose, that is a fantastic article.

I mentioned back in May when I saw STID that I thought that Adm Marcus was like General Scott from the movie Seven Days in May. In that movie, General Scott plotted to take over the U.S. Govt and start a war with the Sovet Union. And Scott, the head of the JCS, was based on SAC General Curtiss LeMay, who was the near-wreckless head of the US’s nuclear arms in the 50′s and early 60′s…

1214. crazydaystrom - July 24, 2013

@1211. Who cares-

Yeah the 30th century GotG would be my choice too but I think this movie is going to be huge. Marvel’s Star Wars, and the space adventure Green Lantern, and yes even STID should have been.

And if somehow they can work the name ‘Vance Astro’ in, as an Easter egg at least, I’ll be in the theater with a smile on my face.

1215. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

@1214

Don’t know anything about this except that I might see it ONLY because Zoe, Rooker, and some crazy racoon with a Gatling gun are in it.

That is my extent of knowledge. The whole thing sounds dumbass, but I am going to keep my mind open for now…at least if you stop comparing it to the second coming of Star Wars, my friend…LOL

1216. crazydaystrom - July 24, 2013

1215. MJ (The Original) -
“…stop comparing it to the second coming of Star Wars, my friend…LOL”

Ha!
OK. But as a grand action-adventure set in space, for Marvel, the comparison is an apt one I believe.

I’m not as familiar with this version of GotG, I read it in the seventies when the ‘lead’ character was Vance Astro, but I like what Marvel’s been doing very much and think they will surprise a lot of people with this. And, again, I think it could very well satisfy in ways STID failed to.

1217. Phil - July 24, 2013

Only because I don’t spend much time reading comics these days…

Zoe is playing Gamera?

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/g/gamera1.jpg

1218. Phil - July 24, 2013

Only because I don’t spend much time reading comics these days…

Zoe is playing Gamera?

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/g/gamera1.jpg

1219. dmduncan - July 24, 2013

Trekmovie missing SDCC is strange. That Anthony didn’t turn out for that is worrisome.

I think AP busted his ass getting the kinds of stories that made Trekmovie rise to the top, and it might have burned him out. He doesn’t look like the kind of guy who can maintain a steady state of exhaustion.

MJ, if you’re going to start a site, be sure you have the stamina. I don’t think you need the Trekmovie brand, but you do need the connections to do the quality stories that will make your site a new brand, and you’re going to have to work hard on it.

1220. dmduncan - July 24, 2013

MJ…

P.S. I would advise you to register an alternate name and publicize it here relatively soon, i.e., before this site goes defunct, so that you can give people HERE a URL to check in the event you don’t get TM—before you lose the opportunity. If this site does indeed suddenly go down then you may lose some valuable fan connections.

If you choose to go down that path and you’re on twitter, DM me when you’re ready and I’ll privately give you some ideas of what kinds of stories I think a grand opening front page ought to be loaded with.

AP did good showing the way, but Star Trek could benefit from having a more energetic person running a site that more actively pushes for Star Trek.

1221. Disinvited - July 24, 2013

#1217. Phil – July 24, 2013

Do one little favor for Cameron and get typecast for life! LOL

1222. Who cares - July 24, 2013

@1217/Phil. No Zoe is playing Gamora (note the spelling) aka “The Most Dangerous Woman in the Universe”, and also the daughter of Drax the Destroyer who will be played by Bautista, who was decent as a Phantom Zone escapee on Smallville so it could work.

1223. Phil - July 24, 2013

@1222. I know. The idea of Zoe in a rubber flying fanged turtle suit is a bit funny, though….

….or maybe not.

1224. Jemini - July 24, 2013

this site doesn’t care about the comics anymore it seems lol what happened to the reviews?
anyway I read the last part of the after darkness trilogy, not bad and one of the mysterious characters in the cliffhanger in the end made me think that I wouldn’t mean a female villain in the third movie, you know.

re: Zoe’s Gamora you can see how she looks here
http://www.dailysuperhero.com/2013/07/guardians-of-galaxy-is-anti-hero-hero.html

1225. Craiger - July 24, 2013

MJ, would a site about just Trek news be good or would a more general Scifi news site be better? You could even cover, SW, Dr. Who ect. news in addition to Trek news. Now that I think about it could a Trek site be updated daily with two or three articles a day with just Trek news? With general Scifi news you could have that news wihen their isn’t any Trek news. I have suggested that Trekmovie become more of a general Scifi news site?

1226. Aurore - July 24, 2013

“He doesn’t look like the kind of guy who can maintain a steady state of exhaustion…”
_______

I think he does.

Earlier, he was described as a very private person.

Thus, assuming he’s alright, he’s doing what private people tend to do at times; they do what they have to without notice.

Obviously, he’s done so several times before.

If the site goes down, topping ( or merely “equalling” ) what he has accomplished so far is going to be a daunting task, in my opinion.

(Which, naturally, is not to imply that anyone seriously interested in doing so should not at least try.).

1227. Craiger - July 24, 2013

MJ, ScifiToday.com I think is available. If not a Scifi news site then I wonder if Trekmovie.net or Trekmovie.tv are available?

1228. Craiger - July 24, 2013

I think their at least has to be a message after 8-18 as to the status of the site. I wonder how much longer after 8-18 if Trekmovie is not on auto renewal will it go down? I think they give you a month to renew it right? So Trekmovie might stay up a month after 8-18 making people think Anthony has renewed it, when he might not have.

1229. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

DM and Craiger,

Thanks so much for the inputs and thoughts guys. At this point, I am going to start doing some homework on this. No way I am going to jump into something like this until I fully make sure I have the time and mental stamina to do this. It’s “reality check” time for me.

1230. Craiger - July 24, 2013

I wonder if their will be some type of warning if this site does close so members here can create contingency plans if we all still want to chat with other?

1231. Disinvited - July 24, 2013

“5 Ways to Fix the Summer Movie Box-Office Crisis” – by Pamela McClintock, Aug. 2 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/5-ways-fix-summer-movies-590986

“1. Stop Double Dating

A crowded release calendar is considered the chief culprit behind the summer pileups. Beginning in mid-June, five action tentpoles aimed mostly at men opened on consecutive weekends. The first two — Warners’ Man of Steel and Paramount’s World War Z — survived the onslaught. But then White House Down, Lone Ranger and Pacific Rim came up short.

2. Control Those Costs

If a studio is going to spend huge sums on a tentpole, the money better show onscreen. But execs can’t seem to rein in top producers and directors who have made previous blockbusters. Disney tried to cut back the budget on Jerry Bruckheimer and Gore Verbinski’s Lone Ranger, only to see it creep back above $250 million during production. Sony gave Roland Emmerich $160 million to make White House Down, even when there was a rival project, Olympus Has Fallen, on track to hit theaters first. Sony also obliged Will Smith when he brought in After Earth, a starring vehicle for son Jaden.

3. Don’t Forget the Ladies

Skeptics were surprised when The Great Gatsby grossed $329.9 million worldwide. But it appealed to women, a demo historically marginalized in the summer. Such female-fueled hits as The Heat and Now You See Me, as well as the horror pics Conjuring and The Purge, also owe a big part of their success to females.

4. Cool It With the Cartoons

An unprecedented number of animated films is testing the market. Historically, there have been two or, at most, three a summer. In 2013, there have been five, plus CGI/live-action The Smurfs 2 coming July 31. Pixar’s Monsters University, Universal’s Despicable Me 2 and DreamWorks Animation’s Turbo opened two weeks apart, and Turbo suffered, bowing to only $31 million in North America.

5. Make Better Movies!”

1232. Phil - July 24, 2013

Well, MJ….good luck. The wife and I helped a friend moderate a site a few years back, and it was loads of fun overseeing hundreds of pre-schoolers trapped in adult bodies.

Maybe a couple of Corona’s would have helped.

1233. Ahmed - July 24, 2013

@1231. Disinvited

I agree with all the points mentioned here, specially the second one

“2. Control Those Costs
If a studio is going to spend huge sums on a tentpole, the money better show onscreen.”

STID cost $190 million & it just didn’t show onscreen. No new creative CGIs, same old stuff that we see in other movies. Not a single scene that made me go “wow” like the case with the Matrix & Inception & other movies that came up with something unique.

1234. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

I can see where you if didn’t like the story, pacing or Khan, fine, but to say that the movie didn’t look like a $190M film is just ridiculous. It looked fantastic. And their were numerous WOW scenes.

Sorry, but saying the movie didn’t look awesome is complete bullcrap.

1235. Red Dead Ryan - July 24, 2013

What I can’t understand is why nobody releaseses any big-budget blockbusters in the January-March portion of the year. You mostly see the critically panned movies open during that time frame. They’re all so bunched up together these days. Most people have to pick and choose. It’s almost like the studios like to go to war with each other with their blockbuster films.

As for the site, I imagine it takes a lot of energy and hard work just to put up one article per day, never mind twenty a week. Plus you have to know people at Paramount, and with various convention companies to be able to do interviews with actors, writers, directors, etc.

And I would love to see MJ do an interview with William Shatner. I wonder how they’d do? :-)

1236. Ahmed - July 24, 2013

@1234. MJ (The Original).

ST09 cost around $140 million & it looked great, STID cost a lot more & didn’t come up with something better than what we already seen in ST09.

Can you give an example of a scene in STID that was more imaginative or better than ST09 ?

1237. Red Dead Ryan - July 24, 2013

Anybody who says STID didn’t LOOK good on screen must have been wearing blindfolds when they sat down in the theatre. :-)

1238. Marja - July 24, 2013

But why must you ask does this sudden fear and insecurity exist in JJ Abram’s Star Trek? Ah, did you see the previous film?!? People forget that the chain of events set in motion by Star Trek (2009), with an enemy like Nero and the futuristic Romulans coming back and obliterating Vulcan, along with almost obliterating Earth changed everything for Starfleet and how new threats are viewed. Instead of just carrying along like a peaceful, scientific organization, they became one that had to create a division that could come up with resources to respond to sudden threats like the one that almost wiped them from the map a few years prior.

So I’m quite sure that when Kirk in the last moments of STiD is talking about “a year ago” he is speaking of the events of STiD. Because there is no way even Marcus could have funded, generated plans for, got materials for, and built the Vengeance, or got Khan to build weapons and design other systems, inside of a year. Even inside of five years.

Maybe Marcus had some intel on the advanced ship [Nero's Narada] captured by the Klingons in the year of Kirk’s birth? And started then? Cos 25 years seems about right as a time frame …

Keachick, I definitely agree with the article. There were some deep currrents to STiD, and I particularly appreciated the portrayal of Marcus as a “pragmatic” latter-day neoconservative. And the damage such people can do.

Craiger, If we can all meet on an alternative Trek site such as StarTrek.com, maybe we can continue as a chatting group, in a way, given the format. I don’t know if StarTrek.com gathers news in the same way as this site.

Personally speaking, I’m more interested in a continuing Star-Trek centered site, with news of any sort re: ST and the actors’ projects. I wouldn’t be that into reading about all the other superhero news and whatnot.

I’m not enthusiastic about superhero movies and there’s very little good, non-gross-out-horror science fiction anymore. I do look forward to the Bullock-Clooney EVA movie later this year, and I enjoyed Moon [goodness, how long ago now?]. I’d have gone to “Oblivion” but can’t stand Tom Cruise.

I regret that we’ll probably never see another Robert Downey Jr. movie like his masterful “Chaplin” … he’s starring in two franchises now. He and other highly talented actors are folks I consider “casualties” [only in the sense that they're not available for smaller, actorly projects] of the Giant-Budget-Movie world we live in now.

1239. Ahmed - July 24, 2013

@ 1237. Red Dead Ryan – July 24, 2013

“Anybody who says STID didn’t LOOK good on screen must have been wearing blindfolds when they sat down in the theatre. :-)”

Here is what I said: “STID cost $190 million & it just didn’t show onscreen. No new creative CGIs, same old stuff that we see in other movies. Not a single scene that made me go “wow” like the case with the Matrix & Inception & other movies that came up with something unique.”

I didn’t say that STID didn’t look good. I was talking about the lack of creative CGIs , something that was not seen before.

What we saw in STID was not new stuff, it was the same old CGIs, that was my point.

1240. Phil - July 24, 2013

@1233. The effects were top notch, so if your criteria is that for the money spent there should have been something innovative, that argument comes up short. Most movies don’t innovate, they just design something to fulfill a purpose for the story they are going to tell.

Now, if you want to argue that some of the effects were extraneous, that could be debated all day long. Enterprise under the sea was not necessary. Vengeance and Enterprise could have been shown as smoldering wrecks in orbit, Vengeance didn’t have to crash into SF. Transport to Krono’s, instead of a spaceship chase scene. The entire last quarter of the movie was deus ex machine driven drama, the production team spending cash because they had it, not because it drove the story. But it looked damn good, so it was done.

1241. Ahmed - July 24, 2013

@ 1240. Phil – July 24, 2013

“Most movies don’t innovate, they just design something to fulfill a purpose for the story they are going to tell.”

Of course, unless the director happen to be someone who actually think out of the box. Inception & Rise of the Planet of the Apes are two recent examples that come to my mind.

1242. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

Here are three incredible cool scenes that stick with me:

(1) The sequence with Enterprise rising out of the water jetting through the sky, and the then the Enterprise drawing by the natives in the dirt morphing to the Enterprise flying to space, followed the Star Trek title. THIS IS ONE OF THE COOLEST SCENES EVER IN THE HISTORY OF STAR TREK.

(2) The Jupiter arrival by Scotty — I have never seen a rendering of Jupiter in any movie ever look this real — I thought I was actually there. And then the remote dry-dock sequence as par of this — very cool!

(3) The Enterprise “dying” as it fell through the clouds, disappearing below, and then reappearing with basic thrusters working above the clouds….AGAIN, ONE OF THE COOLEST LOOKING SCENES IN ANY TREK MOVIE TO DATE

The movie has its faults related to its story, dialogue and the Khan issues, but it was the best looking Star Trek movie since TMP came out in 1979.

1243. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

@1239. “What we saw in STID was not new stuff, it was the same old CGIs, that was my point.”

Ahmed, I don’t get this? I assume that you when you are saying “the same old CGI’s”, you mean as compared to ST 2009. If that is what you are saying , then I totally disagree with that. The CGI’s in this movie were vastly superior and more complex to what we saw in the 2009 movie.

Here is one side by side comparison that you can do yourself — just look at the “pedestrian looking” Saturn in the first movie, and compare it to the incredibly realistic looking Jupiter in STID in this movie. The CGI was definitely improved for this movie — it wasn’t the “same old CGI” from Trek 2009.

1244. Ahmed - July 24, 2013

MJ,

Again, I’m not saying STID looked cheap, I just wasn’t blown away by the CGIs. Maybe my dislike of the story made me overlook certain things but don’t think so. Usually if any given movie has an amazing CGIs, I feel it immediately, like the case with the Matrix (1999) & Inception (2010).

I guess we will have to agree that we both disagree on this issue :)

btw about the site, if you live in LA, then it will be easier for you to run a Trek news site than if you are in a different city.

1245. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

…and saying The Planet of the Apes was innovative is ignoring that all of that movies special effects were built upon the WETA foundation established in The Lord of the Rings and Avatar…and they even hired “Gollum” to repeat the process successfully. :-)

Lord of the Rings and Avatar to me are the only really two substantially innovative special effects movies that have come out in the past 15 years. Everything else is an iteration here on these on what these movies established as the new State of the Art.

1246. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

@1244. Yes, let’s agree to disagree. :-)

I live about 2 hours from Hollywood. So, I can get there when I need to, but it’s not like taking lunch hour and doing an interview.. :-)

1247. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

…and Joe Letteri of WETA, a guy who never gets any press, is the best special effects guy on the planet right now, as has been for nearly a decade.

1248. Ahmed - July 24, 2013

@ 1246. MJ (The Original). – July 24, 2013

“@1244. Yes, let’s agree to disagree. :-)

I live about 2 hours from Hollywood. So, I can get there when I need to, but it’s not like taking lunch hour and doing an interview.. :-)”

Sound good. Now, we have to wait & see what is going to happen in August with the site.

Unless of course AP came back & state that he will keep running the site !!

1249. Craiger - July 24, 2013

MJ, looks like Treknews.com is available. I know Treknews.net is already taken.

1250. Craiger - July 24, 2013

Ahmed, and then he will go away again for a couple of months.

1251. Marja - July 24, 2013

1235 Red Dead, Right on. January – April in my local theatre offered simply aawful movies. So awful they were aaaawful. It’s the dead season, Hollywood acknowledges that, so who would be the first studio to release a film in “stinker season”? No, they’d rather clash over dollars in the mighty Summer season.

It reminds me of the stupid network television wars, do I watch E.R. or NYPD Blue kinda questions I was asking myself in the ’90s.

Pointless, stupid, and escalating costs to attract eyes when the other bird has equally beau’iful plumage.

1252. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

@1235 “And I would love to see MJ do an interview with William Shatner.”

MJ: So Shat…the Star Trek Generations death scene — what the F was up with you sitting by and letting Berman send Kirk out so unceremoniously?

MJ: Oh Shat, that’s about as funny as the picture of you on the beach in Hawaii a couple of years back. BTW, are you wearing a manzier today?

1253. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

…in reality, I would probably be awestruck, and suck up to the old dude. I’m much less of an ass in person then when I post here. :-)

1254. Craiger - July 24, 2013

MJ, if you did a Scifi news site you could interview Erica Durance for Harry. LOL.

1255. Keachick - July 24, 2013

“Pine and Quinto are contracted to do at least one more film. Quinto has hinted that the third Star Trek film will start production in 2014.[125] Ashley Edward Miller and Zack Stentz were hired to write the new movie, together with Kurtzman and Orci.[126]” – Wikipedia

It seems Wikipedia know something we don’t?…

1256. Ahmed - July 24, 2013

@ 1255. Keachick – July 24, 2013

“It seems Wikipedia know something we don’t?…”

Nope, the first part with Quinto is just him talking about stuff not confirmed, and Bob responded to with this : ” but yeah I read that too and I was like, ‘Whoa, does [Quinto] know something I don’t? I’d better call him.’ He owes me a call.””

http://www.blastr.com/2013-7-22/roberto-orci-responds-zachary-quintos-star-trek-3-shooting-reveal

The second part about the new writers was reported by a website & it was not confirmed.

http://collider.com/star-trek-3-new-writers-abrams-leaving-star-wars-episode-7/

In general, I don’t check Wikipedia for new information. For industry news, check with the usual suspects, Variety, Hollywood Reporter & Deadline. I also check Collider, an excellent source for news.

1257. Phil - July 24, 2013

@1255. Anyone can edit Wikipedia….including me. I can take that out if you like.

1258. MJ (The Original). - July 24, 2013

@1255.

Pine is actually under contract for two more films.

1259. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

(1) The sequence with Enterprise rising out of the water jetting through the sky, and the then the Enterprise drawing by the natives in the dirt morphing to the Enterprise flying to space, followed the Star Trek title. THIS IS ONE OF THE COOLEST SCENES EVER IN THE HISTORY OF STAR TREK.

No much of a money shot as they cut away too quickly and then hanged too long on the white faced guy. The E was NEVER really in that shot for crying out loud!

(2) The Jupiter arrival by Scotty — I have never seen a rendering of Jupiter in any movie ever look this real — I thought I was actually there. And then the remote dry-dock sequence as par of this — very cool!

But lame, IMO, as there was never any security to stop Scotty. How’d he ever get into the ship? No one ever noticed? Too convenient for my tastes.

(3) The Enterprise “dying” as it fell through the clouds, disappearing below, and then reappearing with basic thrusters working above the clouds….AGAIN, ONE OF THE COOLEST LOOKING SCENES IN ANY TREK MOVIE TO DATE

And one of the dumbest. Why didn’t they simply use those thrusters to move the E away from the Earth as it was speeding toward it?

I am really not trying to burst your enjoyment of the movie, but man all those great scenes were all directed to a dumb conclusion. THANK GOSH that Paramount and Bad Robot has decided that the writing for the last two movies have sucked all the air out of these otherwise great productions.

1260. Curious Cadet - July 25, 2013

@1055. Curious Cadet,
“And what about the Star Wars and Marvel idea of stand-alone movies that focus on individual characters? Why not an ambitious slate of interstitial films that allow characters to be explored; like Wolverine, or the planned 2016 Star Wars film?”

It just hit me … A great stand-alone adventure in TOS was the Galileo 7. Something like that would make a great interstitial movie between major missions with the entire crew. We get to explore Spock much more intimately, as well as other characters like Bones, Scotty, Chekov, and introduce characters like Janice Rand, Nurse Chapel, Leslie, Kyle, Riley, Boma, M’Benga, et al, for whom there is not enough time to in the main movies to really explore properly. Make it much more exciting than G7 — the shuttle makes several attempts to get off the planet before its Hail Mary … More creatures to deal with, until finally confronting the savage humanoids, separation of the stranded crew battling their own unique problems elsewhere on the planet. Meanwhile, Pine, Sladana and other principles who can’t schedule to be in the stand-alone movie, come in for a couple of days to do framing scenes, in much the same way Kirk had a very small role in G7. Under 100 million budget, 90 minutes, release in the Spring or Fall, keep the box office momentum going and make the fans happy in the process.

1261. Marja - July 25, 2013

Well, since “Galileo 7″ has already been done, I wouldn’t want a re-hash … and [though most won't know this unless they read them] the comics also went there.

*Like* Galileo 7 but with a crew that large could be done, if, say, you changed lots of plot devices, like the hostile element of giant scary hairies and other circumstances.

“explore Spock much more intimately,” Yeah, but I’d like this better if Uhura were there with him … if Saldana’s off making another movie it wouldn’t work as well [to me]. But I see your point about “framing” scenes, and certainly Uhura could exhibit concern for Spock.

In fact this would be a great opportunity to see Spock and Bones debating, McCoy “pushing” him a little, and begin to form a solid friendship, one that will have a little edge of perceptive but friendly “snark.” So far Uhura and Kirk have “humanized” Spock somewhat.

I definitely agree that it’d be lovely to see “other characters like Bones, Scotty, Chekov, and introduce characters like Janice Rand, Nurse Chapel, Leslie, Kyle, Riley, Boma, M’Benga, et al, for whom there is not enough time to in the main movies to really explore properly.”

I just want to see a “bigger” mission than “Galileo 7,” without the silly statements [irrelevant even in the TOS episode] that it’s “Spock’s first opportunity to command” … he did that quite well in STiD.

1262. Phil - July 25, 2013

@1258. Well, that’s still subject to interpretation….

1263. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1259 “But lame, IMO, as there was never any security to stop Scotty. How’d he ever get into the ship? No one ever noticed? Too convenient for my tastes.”

The discussion we were having was SOLEY on the look of the CGI of the film. I hear you, but different discussion.

(but Scotty would have been smart enough to have hacked his way in)

1264. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

“And one of the dumbest. ”

Again, dude, you seem to be deliberately avoiding the actual discussion topic???

1265. K-7 - July 25, 2013

Agree with MJ. The discussion was focused on how the CGI looked in the film. It’s disingenuous to come in and star bitching about the scenes.

1266. Craiger - July 25, 2013

24 days until Trekmovie.com expires.

1267. Phil - July 25, 2013

Continuity is an entirely separate discussion. CGI was top notch.

1268. Phil - July 25, 2013

@1266. Really? This isn’t something we need a countdown clock for.

1269. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Please re-read my last paragraph…

I am really not trying to burst your enjoyment of the movie, but man all those great scenes were all directed to a dumb conclusion. THANK GOSH that Paramount and Bad Robot has decided that the writing for the last two movies have sucked all the air out of these otherwise great productions.

The graphics, no matter how well rendered, are a cartoon to watch when you consider the unrealistic conclusions. That was my point.

So, forgive me if I make my own assertions about why the graphics of STiD suck the wind out of the production.

And MJ, I agree. Scotty would have pulled ithat off. It’s another reason I am disapointed with the conclusion of that scene.

1270. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Another good example would be the white savages at the start.

Question. What effect would letting a savage see the Enterprise have on a world’s socio-evolutionary path? NONE.

It would have been much more impressive if the Enterprise had saved a world with technology that is just ramping up. Like America in the mid 1800′s. Then I would have had a deep consideration for what Kirk had done in that scene. With the way the Prime Directive was presented in STiD it was all made irrelevant (for me). Graphics, story, acting, drama all included. Just a stupid decision to think a savage seeing the E would change a society in any way that is relavant to the Federation or yet to come future civilization, that would eventually rise up a few thousand years later.

1271. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Now, if you will excuse me I have to catch up on the world shattering Weiner news on CNN.

Another dodge on what should be the real story of the day.

Wolf and CNN, you should all be embarrased.

1272. Undiscovered - July 25, 2013

Oh look. Cumbersomesnatch officiated at a wedding.

http://dlisted.com/2013/07/24/benedict-cumberbatch-married-his-gay-friends-in-ibiza/

1273. Disinvited - July 25, 2013

#1263. MJ (The Original). – July 25, 2013

Not to mention if Khan’s using transwarp beaming why couldn’t Scotty use it to get on board? I mean he has experience in using it to get onto ships. Doesn’t he?

1274. Phil - July 25, 2013

@1269/70. The problem now is that you are arguing for arguments sake. Your entire premise of an unrealistic conclusion presumes some level of realism around science fiction, that suspension of disbelief is not necessary…to the contrary, the very basis of Star Trek, FTL travel, is an unrealistic conclusion. You want realism? So see a space travel movie that’s two and a half hours of watching a ship fly through space just under the speed of light. When you get to episode 4960656 maybe something will happen. Are you actually suggesting that crappy CGI would have made the movie more enjoyable, given the other flaws you imagine?

The point is that we don’t know what effect it may have on these people, to whom the notion of powered flight is a complete unknown. Yeah, they are not going run out tomorrow and build a plane (for all we know maybe that volcano Spock capped exploded a week later, and they all died anyway). History does suggest that this kind of contact is bad for the people being contacted, as our own history suggests.

1275. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

@ 1270. Other Guy – July 25, 2013

“Another good example would be the white savages at the start. ”

Can someone please explain what was the “humanitarian mission” that Pike mentioned regarding these savages ? Why the Enterprise was sent there in the first place ?

@ 1271. Other Guy – July 25, 2013

“Now, if you will excuse me I have to catch up on the world shattering Weiner news on CNN.

Another dodge on what should be the real story of the day.
Wolf and CNN, you should all be embarrased.”

He should be watching how “Will McAvoy” handle news stories on his show :)

1276. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

You want realism? So see a space travel movie that’s two and a half hours of watching a ship fly through space just under the speed of light.

No. I will see Moon (2009) again before I ever see a modern day Star Trek. Moon was made for a mere $5 million. STiD’s budget, as we know was an astronomical 200 million!

That’s the real insult to all of us Trekkies. Say what you want about the crappy effects or acting by the New Voyages gang, but at least they have integrity (and my attention). Unlike what shameful Star trek has done recently.

1277. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

There is a video interview with Simon Pegg on Collider. The video itself it not up yet but in the time index of the interview, they mentioned this:

7:10 – Pegg hopes they can make the next Star Trek in time for the 50th anniversary.

http://collider.com/simon-pegg-nick-frost-the-worlds-end-tintin-sequel/

So I guess there is nothing official yet & the actors don’t know if they will make the movie in time for the anniversary.

1278. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

As a Trekkie, and as an intelligent moviegoer, I feel insulted by Bad Robot.

1279. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

I certainly hope they do not spend another $200 milion, Ahmed!

I wont see it.

And if anyone is keeing count.

1st it was Iron-Man III using magic blood.
2nd it was Star Trek using magic blood.
3rd I just saw the HORRIBLE Man of Steel that AGAIN used magic blood as a key plotline.

ATROCIOUS!!

1280. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

By the way, Bad Robot. I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

1281. Matt Wright - July 25, 2013

Since the comments here have gone back to talking/complaining/critiquing specifically about STID, please keep STID discussion to the proper place.
http://trekmovie.com/into-darkness-open-discussion/

1282. Disinvited - July 25, 2013

#1274. Phil – July 25, 2013

“You want realism? So see a space travel movie that’s two and a half hours of watching a ship fly through space just under the speed of light. When you get to episode 4960656 maybe something will happen.” = Phil – July 25, 2013

I think the success of Fox TV’s “24″ points out that that’s not totally out of the question as it once might have seemed.

1283. Marja - July 25, 2013

1270, Other Guy, You are absolutely right – in fact I’d say a world developed to the point of the early 20th century, when there would be the beginnings of radio, and telegraphic-type communications would be a matter of course. What Kirk did would indeed have world-shaking consequences. Of course, some member of the crew could always appear later in the guise of a native, secret agent type, to explain away the Enterprise as a “weather ballon” [LOL] or an unusally-shaped dirigible … or that could be Starfleet damage control.
————————————————
1274 Phil, “suspension of disbelief” is fine with me, and when I see people talking about plot holes, that disbelief does get stretched to the breaking point. As I’ve said before, I’m able to “go with it” if there’s good acting involved …
————————————————-
1275 Ahmed, “Can someone please explain what was the “humanitarian mission” that Pike mentioned regarding these savages ? Why the Enterprise was sent there in the first place ? ” OMG that’s a demmed good question! I’ll have to watch that scene. Was he not referring to Spock’s volcano tinkering? That was my impression at the time of viewing …
————————————————–
1276, OtherGuy, I agree that a cut in budget for all the over-the-top fight scenes [e.g. Khan vs. Klingons] would have been a welcome development for me as a viewer. I also can’t help but think how much even a quarter of that budget would help, say, the State of California ….
But I love any CGI depiction of spaceflight within reason [ST:TMP was a huge crashing bore for the most part], “You want realism? So see a space travel movie that’s two and a half hours of watching a ship….” haha Phil, I think that’d be my assessment of TMP.

1284. Basement Blogger - July 25, 2013

If there is going to be a Star Trek TV series, and let’s hope so, it should be on a cable network. There would be less ratings pressure on it ala Star Trek TNG. Syndication would be good also. But I’m thinking SyFy, AMC, TNT or CBS’ own CW.

1285. Craiger - July 25, 2013

BB – I agree. It makes wonder why Syfy spent millions on Defiance when then they had a built in Scifi show concept already to go with Star Trek. Unless they figured Star Trek is old and Defiance is new and fresh? That could be one reason why CBS is dragging their feet on making a new Trek series. I wonder if they figure Star Trek is still an old concept and not worth taking a chance on because it would cost $3 Million an episode right?

1286. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

@ 1284. Basement Blogger – July 25, 2013

“If there is going to be a Star Trek TV series, and let’s hope so, it should be on a cable network. There would be less ratings pressure on it ala Star Trek TNG. Syndication would be good also. But I’m thinking SyFy, AMC, TNT or CBS’ own CW.”

SyFy: They rarely produce quality shows, only exceptions are “Battlestar Galactica” & “Alphas”. Rest of the time, they are happy producing craps like Sharktopus & Sharknado !!

CW: I think is geared mostly toward the teens & I really don’t want a Trek series in such a network.

AMC & TNT are better choice, although I’m still pissed off at AMC for cancelling “Rubicon”.

1287. Craiger - July 25, 2013

However not sure if I like cable’s schedule with cable looking like it shows 10 episodes one year then doesn’t come back till the following year with another 10. I think Defiance is just ok new episodes of that show wont be back until Summer 2014.

1288. Craiger - July 25, 2013

Ahmed don’t knock Sharknado its now my favorite movie its even better than ST 2009. LOL.

1289. Phil - July 25, 2013

@1283. Well, CA is bankrupt, so I’m not sure what 50MM would do, other then postpone the inevitable….

1290. Curious Cadet - July 25, 2013

@1261. Marja,
“Well, since “Galileo 7″ has already been done, I wouldn’t want a re-hash …”

If it wasn’t clear, I was using G7 as an example of the kind of interstitial stand-alone movie, effectively focusing on and developing the minor characters.

——————-
“Yeah, but I’d like this better if Uhura were there with him … ”

That’s actually kind of my point. It’s clear Uhura is a primary character for the story and marketing of the main films. And there’s no debate that her inclusion draws screen time from the other major characters. And development in the Abrams films has been centered around Uhura. Therefore, a movie of this type would get him away from Uhura and bring him back to the role as it was originally conceived, without sacrificing the importance and focus of the relationship as it has been developed in the larger films.

——————-
“I just want to see a “bigger” mission than “Galileo 7,”

Again, correct me if I misunderstood your point, but the idea is to make a smaller film, both in scope and budget so as to distinguish it from the major installments every 2-3 years, and reduce the need to make as much money at the box office. Can it be bigger in scope than G7? Yes, and it should be to fill the scope of a 90 minute feature, but not so much that it competes with ST09 and STID and ST16, etc.

Using G7 as an example only, add Klingons to the mix having crashed as the result of a similar astronomical disturbance. Perhaps they have been there awhile, and are competing for the same resources or trying to commandeer the shuttle from the crew. Perhaps Kirk in his limited role, has to play a cat and mouse game with the Klingons claiming this space and searching for their crew in order to get back to the planet to rescue Spock and his crew. Perhaps Spock discovers the Klingons have established a military base on the planet and are causing the disturbance which caused the shuttle to crash, so the crew must take out the weapon while battling the native inhabitants and find a way to escape. So many ways to make such a simple episode even bigger with greater scope.

1291. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

Craiger

“Ahmed don’t knock Sharknado its now my favorite movie its even better than ST 2009. LOL.”

lol, I can’t help it. When the only sci-fi channel in Canada, Space, keep showing these stupid SyFy movies every weekend, instead of some decent movies, I want to throw something at my TV :)

1292. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1270 “Question. What effect would letting a savage see the Enterprise have on a world’s socio-evolutionary path? NONE.”

That’s a rather bold assertion to make. I don’t think you can convincingly say this so unequivocally — like you know it as a “fact”???

I took Anthropology in college, and this doesn’t quite jive.

1293. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1289.

You have old info, Phil. CA is in the black now.

1294. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1285 ” It makes wonder why Syfy spent millions on Defiance when then they had a built in Scifi show concept already to go with Star Trek.”

Craiger, SyFy can’t just go and make a Star Trek series. CBS would have to be involved, and why would CBS work with a competitor network like SyFy?

1295. Phil - July 25, 2013

@1293. Not old, I just know that they ignore the unfunded liabilities. 300 billion, and climbing, at last count….

1296. Craiger - July 25, 2013

MJ, Just answering what BB said about Trek going to cable or syndication.

1297. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

1292. MJ

Really? Just trying to point out that the writers had a few good ideas, but they were way off the mark when it came to finalizing all those concepts for STiD.

Also, I like that NO ONE here has an opinion on Moon (2009). Very telling fellow Trekkies.

1298. Red Dead Ryan - July 25, 2013

SyFy is owned by NBC, bitter rival of CBS. No friggin’ way CBS allows SyFy anywhere near its prized property.

And Syfy has as much a chance of screwing it all up as they do of pulling off another “Battlestar Galactica” in terms of critical acclaim. NBC/SyFy has been run by dopes for the past decade or so.

1299. Craiger - July 25, 2013

I keep forgetting Syfy is owned by NBC.

1300. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1297. Moon was an interesting hard sf movie. But it wasn’t great, like say, Blomkamp’s District 9 or Jones’s other much better sf movie, Source Code. And it certainly ain’t up there with the classic, Silent Running.

1301. Red Dead Ryan - July 25, 2013

#1297. Other Guy.

“Also, I like that NO ONE here has an opinion on Moon (2009). Very telling fellow Trekkies.”

We were discussing the cgi of STID. No one except you brought up “Moon”.

Also, your condescending tone is not needed here.

1302. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Oh. You can ask. Don’t be shy fellas.

My thoughts on Moon?

It is what Star Trek should be. Sharp and Clever in it’s approach to modern social commentary. It told a smart tale of a future human presence on the Moon, that while awe inspiring in it depiction, at the same time, told a story of corporate oppression of on a scale that has not ever yet been conceived.

Especially when it comes to science, the human experience, AND what makes us human and special.

Anyhow. That was my spoiler-free review.

Check it out if you have not yet discovered this great movie starring Sam Rockwell.

1303. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

F U RDR

Your presence was never requested either you degenerate packled failure.

1304. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Oh, yeah. Did I mention it only coast 3% of Trek’s budget?

1305. Red Dead Ryan - July 25, 2013

#1300. MJ.

“@1297. Moon was an interesting hard sf movie. But it wasn’t great, like say, Blomkamp’s District 9 or Jones’s other much better sf movie, Source Code. And it certainly ain’t up there with the classic, Silent Running.”

I have to disagree. I think “Moon” is a modern sci-fi classic. It is reminscent of “2001: A Space Odyssey” without aping it. Duncan Jones did a masterful job.

I agree that “Source Code” is excellent. I really would like to see Duncan Jones’ take on “Star Trek” one day, but like Neil Blomkamp, I don’t know if he’d be willing to compromise his vision to suit that of Paramount.

1306. K-7 - July 25, 2013

#1276 #1278 #1279

Other Guy, just because you essentially post the same thing over and over — i.e. hey all, STID sucks and I am so smart and above it all, while you morons who like it are so dumb and don’t even understand good science fiction…blah…blah…blah — well that doesn’t make it so. You don’t get to certify that judgement on all of us here.

You are simply one person who is trying to make a point here by posting multiple times and saying essentially the same thing — so as to artificially back up your nuTrek hate mongering and your know-it-all elitist attitude.

I am frankly underwhelmed with your multiple repetitive posts…you are all about PROCESS OVER SUBSTANCE.

1307. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

1237. Red Dead Ryan

Anybody who says STID didn’t LOOK good on screen must have been wearing blindfolds when they sat down in the theatre. :-)

Yeah. That’s not condescending. Huh?

Up your shaft, Red Dead.

1308. Red Dead Ryan - July 25, 2013

#1303. Other Guy.

“F U RDR

Your presence was never requested either you degenerate packled failure.”

Ok then. :-) Not sure what “degenerate packled failure” means, though. LOL!

1309. Red Dead Ryan - July 25, 2013

#1307. Other Guy.

“Up your shaft, Red Dead.”

Yeah, stay clASSy, butthead. :-)

1310. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

RDR,

“It is reminscent of “2001: A Space Odyssey”

I had seen comments and press before I saw Moon comparing it to 2001. But then, when I watched it , while it was a very compelling story, it certainly wasn’t even close to the scope of 2001. Corporate cloning run amok can’t really complete with super-advanced aliens controlling the evolution of man and sending us a time-warp device.

So for me, I think the hype that “this is like 2001″ that I had been hearing about Moon before I saw it, inevitably gave me a letdown when I saw it finally.

1311. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Way to spoil it, MJ.

1312. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

Other guy,

You seem to be a very angry person. Just an observation — I’m not intending to be critical.

1313. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1311, Huh, first you say, “Also, I like that NO ONE here has an opinion on Moon (2009). Very telling fellow Trekkies.” And now, after I have provided two posts with my commentary about it, you say, “Way to spoil it, MJ.”

Make up your fracking mind. LOL

1314. Red Dead Ryan - July 25, 2013

Other Guy must be having a bad day. I think I’m just going to leave him be now.

1315. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Sorry, Red Dead and K7. You are going to have to stick with your mediocrity. I am sure you will all pay for it, again and again,

ST 09 Sucked. STiD Sucked.

Yes the FX looked great, But the writing SUCKED!!!
Yes the acting was Great, But the writing SUCKED!!!
Yes the movie sets were great/ But the MOVIE SUCKED!!!
AND I am a Trek fan!

Tell you what. STiD was out about two months ago and we are probably at about 15 thousand posts since the movie opened. I am tired of trying to share my thoughts about what hurt these two previous flicks, and then having my thoughts shot down by a couple miserable posters.

It must be so bad for you two to hear that your movie sucked. but it did. FACE IT! IT SUCKED!

And now that Man of Steel, Iron Man III, and Trek, all had similar plot lines, I am pretty sure that there is another agenda that has superseded your ingestion of Trek, and replaced it with Turds, or at the least, a simpy impression that bloodlines are important to all of our futures.

That is the message that you should consider.

1316. K-7 - July 25, 2013

“Other guy, You seem to be a very angry person. Just an observation — I’m not intending to be critical.”

Gee, MJ, do you think? :-)

1317. crazydaystrom - July 25, 2013

@1297 –
Moon was excellent Other Guy. I’m hoping Duncan Jones will delve into science fiction again soon. Something based on his dad’s music could be interesting.

And 1286.
Yeah Rubicon was a VERY good show, Ahmed. Possibly TOO smart for television…so good. Too bad.

1318. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1315. Thanks for sharing YOUR opinion.

We got it now. No need to repeat it again. We get it!

1319. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

MJ. You read thing in your mind with your own voice. You must be the angry one.

I was simply trying to point out the blooper in your post. Spoilers should be mentioned before posting so you don’t ruin the movie for others.

I was trying to be considerate. But then again, apparently, I am posting in a hostile board, full of dispassionate Trek fans.

1320. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1319. OK, I get it. We get it. No need to bring it up again then.

1321. Craiger - July 25, 2013

Other Guy what was your opinion on ST 2009 and STID? LOL.

1322. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

1318. MJ (The Original). – July 25, 2013

@1315. Thanks for sharing YOUR opinion.

We got it now. No need to repeat it again. We get it!

Really, MJ. YOU GET IT?

The concept that ‘blood’ was a feature in THREE (that I know of) major movie productions this summer? And these are not even vampire movies! HA!

I think there is something there that needs discussion. But this is probably not the right site for that. Unless you are concerned about who really is in control of your Trek these days.

One thing is sure. SOME ONE heard my (and others) b*tching about the writing. And new help is on the way.

1323. K-7 - July 25, 2013

Other Guy,

How come it’s OK for you to mention the key magic blood plot points of Man of Steel and IM3 without labeling your comments on these movies as spoilers first in your posts? This is like the pot calling the kettle black.

1324. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

1321. Craiger – July 25, 2013

Other Guy what was your opinion on ST 2009 and STID? LOL

—-

OK. Now I am WITNESSING a conspiracy, first hand!

1325. crazydaystrom - July 25, 2013

MJ-
Other does seem angry.

And you did spoil Moon’s ‘twist’.

My two cents…

1326. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1322

You are saying the same thing over and over.. Once again, OK, I get it that this is YOUR opinion. We all get that now. No need to bring it up again then.

“These aren’t the droids you’re looking for…move along.”

1327. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

I mentioned it, but until you see it in the movie you will not understand the relavance. IMO.

1328. Craiger - July 25, 2013

I liked ST: 2009 its my favorite movie. The Final Countdown was my first favorite. I thought STID was just ok.

1329. K-7 - July 25, 2013

#1324

Hey Jerkweed, Craiger was just trying to lighten things up a bit here. Have a sense of humor. Sheesh, you are so uptight.

And stop with the Man of Steel and IM3 spoilers, please.

1330. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

@ 1317. crazydaystrom – July 25, 2013

“Yeah Rubicon was a VERY good show, Ahmed. Possibly TOO smart for television…so good. Too bad.”

It was, I loved Rubicon like no other show. from the actors,James Badge Dale, Arliss Howard & Michael Cristofer, they all brought their characters to life to the beautiful photography of the show & the complex story.

As you said, Rubicon was too smart for TV, I guess that why AMC didn’t renewed it.

ah well, at least I’ve the new show “Ray Donovan” to watch, so far it is proving to be a great show. The show remind me a lot of 1995 movie “Get Shorty”.

1331. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

1329. K-7 – July 25, 2013

#1324

Ahhh.. sorry. That WAS suppossed to be joke. Lighten up, yourself, K-7.

1332. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Oh, K-7. Here is a spoiler for Man of Steel.

IT SUCKED!!!!

And Kal’el ain’t Jesus!!! Or, the Sun!!!!

HA HA HA HA HAH HA!

1333. crazydaystrom - July 25, 2013

1330. Ahmed-
I loved how Rubicon’s characters were all so brilliant and effective with their jobs whe at the same time so flawed in their personal lives. Did you see how Jame Dale Badge was wasted in Iron Man 3? And World War Z as well, for that matter. I expect more fine work from him in the future though.

Haven’t seen Ray Donovan yet. I’ve heard good things about it.

1334. K-7 - July 25, 2013

@1332

You remind me of William Bradley, except without the intelligence.

:-))

1335. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Consume another turd. K-7 You know where to find ‘em.

1336. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Watching the Three Stooges, now.

Now there is a faithful recreation of a classic.

But at $40 million, I have to question it.

Is it really that expensive to make a movie?

1337. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

@ 1333. crazydaystrom – July 25, 2013

“Did you see how Jame Dale Badge was wasted in Iron Man 3? And World War Z as well, for that matter. I expect more fine work from him in the future though.”

I think James Badge Dale needs to change his agent. They keep bringing him movies where he is not doing much, total waste of such great talent.

“Haven’t seen Ray Donovan yet. I’ve heard good things about it.”

Give it a try when you can, Liev Schreiber & Jon Voight are simply amazing.

1338. Phil - July 25, 2013

@1315. You shared your thoughts, and they, well, sucked. And no, until new writers (or any writers, for that matter) are actually confirmed, don’t be taking credit for rumors started by hack bloggers….

1339. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

We’ll see. I read yesterday that the ‘rumor’ was true.

Other news was posted here. You’ve probably seen it. I did not author it.
But your comment sucked too, Phil. Eat at K-7′s you should enjoy his meals too.

http://collider.com/star-trek-3-new-writers-abrams-leaving-star-wars-episode-7/comment-page-1/

1340. Craiger - July 25, 2013

Here is a scene from a great movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMD55Ev261s

1341. Phil - July 25, 2013

Yep, I’ve seen it. Just like all the other s**t that hack bloggers make up, that tin foil hatted people tend to gobble up cuz it’s in the in-ter-net.

Because of my line of work, I’ve become aware that there have been some issues with mail order meds at a few pharmacies. I do hope yours come in soon….

I’m done…this is pointless.

1342. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Bye Phil. Sorry you guys steered the discussion into hate speech.

1343. Keachick - July 25, 2013

Other Guy – All you can do is come here to bitch about how these two latest Star Trek films sucked in your opinion and you keep repeating it. Well, guess what, a lot of other people posting here don’t think that either movie sucked at all.

FWIW – I have never been able to watch District 9 right through but I can’t stand the look of it. I fell asleep while watching Moon on DVD. Perhaps I was tired, not sure, but I have never felt an urgent need to rehire the DVD. They are p in the a’s. What’s more, I have not been able to watch either of the Dark Knight movies all the way – too dark, and overly monotonously violent.

However, this is probably the first and last time I will comment on movies I don’t like that much, because I do not see the point in repeating to people about stuff I don’t like. It is easier, better and more fun to reiterate what I do enjoy watching and more edifying.

Some people are such sad sacks.

1344. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Phil. Your point above and in previous posts that Trek has uses crazy plotlines as a means to be “good star trek” is baffling me.

And its ALSO one that I have heard from many of your previous posts, as well. And for a time I was placated by it. But I, as a paying movie goer, I now demand more from my science fiction.

The mythic quality was easy to excuse early in Trek’s 1st run Star Trek TOS relied heavily on fantasy and mythic storytelling. But that’s not what Trek has become recently. And using that excuse is inapropriate with the current writers whom cannot seem to write as mature a screenplay as those in TOS.

1345. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

@Keachick

Did you read this story about banning Elijah Woods new horror movie “Maniac” in New Zealand ?

http://www.blastr.com/2013-7-25/why-new-zealand-just-banned-elijah-woods-freaky-horror-flick

Is this for real in New Zealand ?

1346. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

Other guy,

Seriously dude, your suppose Star Wars breaking news on JJ was been shown to be false and manufactured by a blogger. (maybe you? …just kidding)

1347. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Keachick.

Succinctly. Trek’s recent problems can be summed up with the Enterprise in ST09.

The Enterprise looked great but it was on the ground. A total misuse of the ship and all of Star Trek lore.

Now. the writers did this. The production depicted it.

It is the concepts. The concepts that destroyed your Star Trek.

The new concepts SUCK!

The writers SUCK!

GET NEW ONES!

1348. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1345. Good for New Zealand. I wish we could ban that kind of shit over here.

Shame on you, Elijah Woods. I know you need a paycheck, but come on.

1349. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Look. A Star Trek TOS fan just sat down next to me.

He says…” Let me get this straight. You established 35 years of stories. Got dedicated fans to bring this show back from the dead, and then FU fans. WE want an action movie that looks like Star Wars – that makes money, and to h_ll with the fans.

Quoted. And he’s is your average moviegoer.

1350. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

MJ,

I didn’t see the movie yet, but in general, I don’t like the idea of a government body telling me what movies that I can see & what not.

They should just give the movie an NC17 rating or something but not banning it.

1351. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1349. If that was your “average moviegoer” as you claim, then the two movies would have tanked financially. “Average” implies the majority of people in the theater.

Now, you are just making shit up, dude. This is simply not credible in the slightest.

When I saw ST 2009, at every showing during the 4 times I saw it in the first 3 weeks of release, the audience applauded at the end.

That experience is legitimately how you can assign the term “average” to some one. In contrast, you provide one quote from some guy you talked to, and you just label him as the “average” moviegoer. Uh uh, that is not credible. You have now way of establishing that he is representative.

Seeing multiple auditoriums applaud, and seeing multiple online rating systems given the movie high marks — now those are ways to establish what the average moviegoer thinks of Star Trek 2009.

1352. Craiger - July 25, 2013

Other Guy you need the general movie going audience to make Trek survive. The other TNG movies were probably just viewed by Trek fans and just a few of the general audience. I found the TNG films box office. Abrams films have done much better than those:

Generations:
BUDGET: $35,000,000
USA RELEASE DATE: November 18, 1994
OPENING USA WEEKEND GROSS: $23,116,394
TOTAL DOMESTIC BOX OFFICE GROSS: $75,671,125
TOTAL WORLDWIDE BOX OFFICE GROSS: $120,000,000
DOMESTIC RENTALS: $35,700,000
WORLDWIDE RENTALS: $80,000,000

First Contact:
BUDGET: $45,000,000
USA RELEASE DATE: November 22, 1996
OPENING USA WEEKEND GROSS: $30,716,131
TOTAL DOMESTIC BOX OFFICE GROSS: $92,027,888
TOTAL WORLDWIDE BOX OFFICE GROSS: $150,000,000
DOMESTIC RENTALS: $40,491,880
WORLDWIDE RENTALS: $115,000,000

Insurrection:
BUDGET: $58,000,000
USA RELEASE DATE: December 11, 1998
OPENING USA WEEKEND GROSS: $22,052,836
TOTAL DOMESTIC BOX OFFICE GROSS: $70,187,658
TOTAL WORLDWIDE BOX OFFICE GROSS: $119,000,000
DOMESTIC RENTALS: $37,200,000
WORLDWIDE RENTALS: $75,000,000

Nemesis:
BUDGET: $60,000,000
USA RELEASE DATE: December 13, 2002
OPENING USA WEEKEND GROSS: $18,513,305
TOTAL DOMESTIC BOX OFFICE GROSS: $43,254,409
TOTAL WORLDWIDE BOX OFFICE GROSS: $67,312,826

1353. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1350. I know its a slipper slope in public speech rights, but it would be nice to draw a Picard line in the sand now and then and just say no to some of that sick puppy stuff that gets produced. Our society is too fully of excesses – guns and violent media are without any sense of common sense control right now, IMO.

1354. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

Craiger,

Looking at those numbers, STID made as much worldwide as all four next generation movies combined.

W O W ! ! ! ! !

Guess a few average moviegoers liked STID, eh? LOL

1355. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

1352. Craiger

Next Gen sucks as bad as JJs.

I could collect stats that would show you all how great Trek could perform if it was any Fn good.

Let’s take a look at say…Iron-Man III, or Avengers.

You MJ, are a Trekkie Scientologist for seeing such a stupid movie, so many times. Or you work for the studio of theatre.

—-

My bud (Greg) now says…

You are just like the studio that disses the fan by not believing they exist,
and equates money for quality.

—-

See, MJ, Craiger!

I could not of thought of something as clever or as true!!!! : 0, : ), : D!

1356. Marja - July 25, 2013

1290 Curious, OK, I see. Put Romulans in place of the Klingons and I’m with you on thst plot about 100%.

It’s clear Uhura is a primary character for the story and marketing of the main films. And there’s no debate that her inclusion draws screen time from the other major characters. And development in the Abrams films has been centered around Uhura.”

That is your opinion. It is not “clear” except to you. I don’t see that Uhura was “central” in either ST film. The first movie was developed around Spock; the second, around Kirk. Uhura is an important secondary character, like Scotty. Yes, there is debate, right here, that her inclusion draws screen time from others. To me that’s nonsense. I wish for lots more McCoy, because Karl Urban is pure gold, but gosh, we’d probably have to do w/o an ass-whippin’ or two ;-} You could “blame” Carol Marcus or Khan for drawing screen time away from others, too.

To me Star Trek is about *characters* and the moral questions they face in their space exploration and meeting new races — not relentless non-stop action and violence. I don’t think Uhura and McCoy should have to jockey for screen time. That assumption is yours, and I do not agree with it.

1357. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

35 years of stories destroyed by your Trek.

Pathetic.

And you like it. Pathetic.

1358. K-7 - July 25, 2013

Other guy, you seem tense. Why don’t you and “your budd” Greg retire for the evening now…

1359. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

The truth hurts scum like you.

1360. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

FU K7. You and others here attack me. AND I will stand up for myself.

Bastards.

1361. Marja - July 25, 2013

1290 Curious, “Again, correct me if I misunderstood your point, but the idea is to make a smaller film, both in scope and budget so as to distinguish it from the major installments every 2-3 years, and reduce the need to make as much money at the box office. Can it be bigger in scope than G7? Yes, and it should be to fill the scope of a 90 minute feature, but not so much that it competes with ST09 and STID and ST16, etc. ………..Using G7 as an example only, add Klingons to the mix having crashed as the result of a similar astronomical disturbance. Perhaps they have been there awhile, and are competing for the same resources or trying to commandeer the shuttle from the crew. Perhaps Kirk in his limited role, has to play a cat and mouse game with the Klingons claiming this space and searching for their crew in order to get back to the planet to rescue Spock and his crew. Perhaps Spock discovers the Klingons have established a military base on the planet and are causing the disturbance which caused the shuttle to crash, so the crew must take out the weapon while battling the native inhabitants and find a way to escape. So many ways to make such a simple episode even bigger with greater scope.
—————————-
I may have misunderstood your point too – I very much agree with the idea of making a lower-budget movie that allows for the possible absence of some of the 7 main characters, or their limited availability.

I think they could probably even come in at 120 minutes, allowing for plenty of conflict, drama and so on, and wouldn’t it be fun if they filmed it at good ol’ Vasquez Rocks … OK, kidding … but they could find some US location that could work, surely, that wouldn’t cost the earth, pardon the expression.

I really like your ideas in the last paragraph, but I would hope for Romulans, because after TNG, I’ve had enough Klingons for a lifetime. I know some people really love them, but … .

Reduce the giant action sequences, have the tension and drama come from interpersonal and interspecies conflicts, and I’ll be one happy Trekfan.

Even if Uhura’s not in the thick of the action.

1362. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1357 “35 years of stories destroyed by your Trek”

@1355 “Next Gen sucks as bad as JJs.”

These statements are inconsistent with each other.

Make up your mind. Which is it?

1363. K-7 - July 25, 2013

@1360 “FU K7. You and others here attack me. AND I will stand up for myself. Bastards.”

You bring a unique combination of elitist condescension and trailer-park-trash-speak to these boards.

I feel like I am talking to the lost child of Bill Maher and Rosanne Barr. LOL

1364. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Argumentative, MJ.

I can appreciate a bad trek as part of a series. Even Next Gen had a few classics,

You are argumentative, MJ and b*tch like a chick.

Question. Are you a female?

1365. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1363. No, I am male.

Also, not to pry, but is this Dave guy who you keep quoting your partner?

1366. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

whoops, I mean “Greg”

1367. Ahmed - July 25, 2013

@Other Guy.

“Next Gen sucks as bad as JJs.”

That is just not true.

And you need to be less hostile here dude, no need to act in such a manner.

1368. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

No. Just a friend.

1369. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Yeah. I’m the bad guy.

1370. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Man. Am I feeling ganged up on by a bunch of Trekkies!!!!

HA HA HA!!!!

OK. I will be less hostile. As long as it’s OK for MJ to make hostile and homophobic remarks.

1371. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

No. Actually I am the Other Guy

1372. Marja - July 25, 2013

1363, Otherguy, “You are argumentative, MJ and b*tch like a chick.”

What the HEY, dude, that is totally uncalled for.

But since you’ve been trolling and flaming and carrying on, I imagine you’ll just carry on some more. Knock yourself out. I mean it

1373. dmduncan - July 25, 2013

1308. Red Dead Ryan – July 25, 2013
#1303. Other Guy.

“F U RDR

Your presence was never requested either you degenerate packled failure.”

Ok then. :-) Not sure what “degenerate packled failure” means, though. LOL!

***

I’m not sure, but I think he misspelled Pakled, which is a Star Trek reference.

1374. Basement Blogger - July 25, 2013

@ 1366

Ahmed says,

“And you need to be less hostile here dude, no need to act in such a manner..”

That’s well said. But on this thread and website, there are full time trolls, part time trolls and people that personally attack others. The bile on this website gives Trekkers a bad name. The best way to rid the place of trolling is to have the moderator step in. That’s why Anthony’s absence hurts. Anthony would often tell posters to knock it off. Most of the time it worked.

1375. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

1373. Basement Blogger – July 25, 2013

Your the Troll, and from the basement too! So but out.

1292. MJ and 1301 Red Dead Ryan started ganging up on me here.
And then, like you, a few others started ganging up on me.

So again. BTFO!

1376. Curious Cadet - July 25, 2013

@ 1356 Marja,
“Yes, there is debate, right here, that her inclusion draws screen time from others. To me that’s nonsense.”

Again, stop me if I’m retreading ground that has already been clarified …

But, necessarily because Uhura’s role is elevated, other roles must suffer, including Kirk and Spock. I’m not making the case that Uhura is replacing McCoy (here anyway), or anyone else for that matter, merely that there is a limited amount of time in either film to feature relatively balanced time for 7 characters, then add Pike, and Marcus, the bad guy and so on. I don’t think I’m misstating that TOS was Kirk and Spock on somewhat equal footing depending on the episode, then a close third with McCoy, followed by Scotty, then by a huge gap to Uhura, Sulu, Chekov and Chapel. Abrams has elevated Uhura to at least the same level as McCoy, and that necessarily limits the amount of time the other characters can all have in a two hour movie — and of course it wasn’t just her. But I would argue she carved out the lions share of additional character time over any other as compared to the inter-character balance of TOS.

I would also go so far as to say a sizeable amount of Uhura’s added screen time was directly related to Spock’s, and as such, she was integral to his character’s growth in both films, elevating her stature in the film beyond mere secondary character. But yes I overstated. For the purposes of marketing she is presented as a primary character, but in practice, she is at least equal to McCoy, thanks to her relationship with Spock, but she is definitely above Scotty now.

Now, just as I propose a movie featuring Spock without Uhura, I would also suggest another movie featuring Uhura without Spock — giving these characters the ability to grow as individuals without the influence of each other, and also to really see Uhura shine as a leader in her own right. Then bring them together for the bigger Summer tent pole films …

1377. Red Dead Ryan - July 25, 2013

I take a break from this site for a few hours, go out with some friends, and come back to find Other Guy not only continuing his flaming and trolling, but ramping up his paranoid attacks and making libelous claims about others.

“Mullah No-More” should just go back to his cave where he can be miserable with his fellow Talifans. We don’t need haters like him here.

#1372. dmduncan.

“I’m not sure, but I think he misspelled Pakled, which is a Star Trek reference.”

Yeah, I forgot about that, though it doesn’t make his “insult” any less clumsy and lame.

#1369.

“OK. I will be less hostile. As long as it’s OK for MJ to make hostile and homophobic remarks.”

Okay, show us something that MJ said that is homophobic. I don’t recall him saying anything that you accuse him of saying. Please back up your libelous claims, or apologize.

1378. Matt Wright - July 25, 2013

That’s enough. This has become a circular comment chain of the same complaints, etc. and now personal attacks.

ENOUGH.

If you want to talk about STID, take to the STID open discussion page. If you want to talk about the future of the franchise in a respectful manner, this is the place. Otherwise, move on.

Like many articles here, when the comments reach 1000+ things seem to get out of hand, and 1000+ comments start to slow things down, so for both reasons I will close the comments if you all can’t seem to behave.

1379. Phil - July 25, 2013

Well, now that there seems to be some cooperation between CBS and Paramount on television production, how long might it take Trek to appear on Showtime?

Just throwing the question out there, and I’m asking about a professional production. No comparisons to fan flicks, please.

1380. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

“1377. Red Dead Ryan

Okay, show us something that MJ said that is homophobic. I don’t recall him saying anything that you accuse him of saying. Please back up your libelous claims, or apologize.”

Here you go, Bub…

1365. MJ (The Original). – July 25, 2013
@1363. No, I am male.

Also, not to pry, but is this Dave guy who you keep quoting your partner?

I ain’t nobody’s fool. Red Dead. You ALL owe me an apology.

Do a search on “Other Guy” and read how it started.

Libelous. Remember. Pathetic.

1381. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Why can’t CBS loosen the chains a bit and create a fun fan based television show?
Perhaps in a reality tv format where the Trekkies (professional actors in reality) compete to create the best Trek episode.

Maybe… there could be a character who is the “Real McCoy Trekkie”. and the show would culminate in his reveal.

1382. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1377

Exactly RDR, I never said anything homophobic, whatsoever. Other Guy kept talking glowingly and quoting his “good bud Greg,” and he made it sound like was sitting right next to him, so it sounded like they might be together…no big deal!

And yet Other Guy just jumps on me and pulls out the “homophobic card” on me right after he says to me:

“You are argumentative, MJ and b*tch like a chick. Question. Are you a female?”

Now here Other Guy’s words speak directly to his views on women — that we can all see clearly now from his exact words here.

1383. Garak's Pride - July 25, 2013

Just a comment here on this very silly argument that I am laughing about now as I read through these posts.

This Other Guy person comes across as saying bad things about women, but sounding very admiring of his friend, Greg. Well, come on folks, I think anyone might assume from this that they are a couple. Duh!

And if that is the case, then I think that this is fantastic. It’s great that they have each other.

IDIC, everyone. IDIC. This is the 21st Century now. Live and let live.

1384. Other Guy - July 25, 2013

Greg is still here witnessing.

He say its a case of MJ knocking others down to make himself feel better.

BTW. Who cares?

1385. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

@1383. I just don’t get your negativity on this? What could possibly be wrong with even the theoretical idea even of you and Greg having a special relationship?

Times change. You need to open your eyes and be more accepting of women, gays, everyone. That’s what Gene Roddenberry teaches us.

Greg — hi man! Peace!

1386. K-7 - July 25, 2013

Greg is still there at this late hour?

1387. MJ (The Original). - July 25, 2013

“He says its a case of MJ knocking others down to make himself feel better.”

Ah, yes, that would be similar to someone coming onto the primary Star Trek new movies website and telling everyone there that Star Trek 2009 sucks and they are all full of crap. Yea, I can see how that would make a certain said kind of person feel better about himself.

1388. Keachick - July 26, 2013

The Enterprise looks fine. Whether one prefers one style over another is a question of personal taste and people are not morons or anything else because they may prefer one style over another.

The film Maniac has not been banned completely – it can be shown to audiences over the age of 18 years for a limited time at an International Film Festival soon to start here in NZ. It is not allowed to be screened at ordinary cinemas nor can blu-ray/DVDs be sold.

I believe that, by and large, NZ censors are fairly tolerant of a great deal but there is a bottom line and obviously this film has crossed it. I seriously doubt that not being allowed to see this material will injure anyone, quite the reverse. Very little gets banned outright and when something is banned, then there is a damned good reason. There is enough stuff that gets through already that I personally find vile, but obviously the censors allow, so I am happy with the ruling.

I find it *amusing* that someone here would get irate about NZ censors banning a film that is clearly filled with the most shocking violence, sexual and otherwise, especially when I consider that not so long ago, on this very site, people were getting irate over a split second scene of a woman standing in her underwear with no violence of any kind being shown in this context…my head hurts….:(

Films that have been banned – ref. NZ’s list and note the reasons -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_films

1389. K-7 - July 26, 2013

Why is it that Other Guy and Greg keep reminding me of Mark Wahlberg and Ted?

This mysterious Greg’s is like this imaginary friend in the background with all these smart quips and sarcastic observations. LOL

1390. Dave H - July 26, 2013

#1384

LOL Nightcap? ;-)

1391. MJ (The Original). - July 26, 2013

@1386 “I believe that, by and large, NZ censors are fairly tolerant of a great deal but there is a bottom line and obviously this film has crossed it. I seriously doubt that not being allowed to see this material will injure anyone, quite the reverse. Very little gets banned outright and when something is banned, then there is a damned good reason. There is enough stuff that gets through already that I personally find vile, but obviously the censors allow, so I am happy with the ruling.”

I agree completely, Rose. I wish we had that flexibility here in the U.S. New Zealand is obviously a healthy democracy, so I don’t by the free speech “slippery slope” argument here in the U.S. that the purveyors of this sick crap use to make public whatever sick ideas that they can imagine.

1392. Marja - July 26, 2013

1382, MJ, is it possible someone was referring to baby chickens that think they are mother dogs?

1376, Curious, “But, necessarily because Uhura’s role is elevated, other roles must suffer, including Kirk and Spock. I’m not making the case that Uhura is replacing McCoy (here anyway), or anyone else for that matter, merely that there is a limited amount of time in either film to feature relatively balanced time for 7 characters, then add Pike, and Marcus, the bad guy and so on. I don’t think I’m misstating that TOS was Kirk and Spock on somewhat equal footing depending on the episode, then a close third with McCoy, followed by Scotty, then by a huge gap to Uhura, Sulu, Chekov and Chapel.”

That was then. This is now. Modern audiences want to see modern portrayals of women. Uhura’s the only woman in the Big 7.

I maintain they could have got rid of several minutes of violent action and replaced that with more McCoy, goodness knows there were lots of things he could have done and/or commented on, without metaphors, and a few more minutes for Sulu and Chekov. I don’t understand “necessarily because Uhura’s role is elevated, other roles must suffer, including Kirk and Spock.”

First, I don’t think it’s at all true that either Kirk’s or Spock’s role “suffered” because of Uhura, and second, I don’t understand why any other roles “must” suffer. *Too much time was spent destroying things and crushing heads and kicking and punching cruelly.* That whole scene with Khan beatin’ up on the Klingons could’ve lost about 2 minutes, $1M, and no harm done. there were other scenes that could’ve been shorter too. The movie could have been expanded by 10 or 12 minutes, for McCoy’s and others’ sakes, and *still* come in under 2 hrs 15 min.

I don’t understand the obsession to keep movies to 2 hours (or in STiD’s case, a big 2 hrs 03 min). They ended up cramming important conversations into inappropriate venues to keep the action rolling, cramming important discussions into a minute or a couple of minutes instead of three or five ….

Hellz,”Man of Steel” dragged on for 2 hrs 28 min. And it *dragged*, to me, in the action sequences that went on for relentless minute after relentless minute after … well, you get the idea. I wish the Abrams movies would slow down, take a deep breath, and talk more. Because when they do talk, the talking is pretty darn good.

And yes, Uhura’s role is “elevated” from her role in the 1960s. Thank. God.

1393. MJ (The Original). - July 26, 2013

Marja, good one! :-)

Also, I think the movie length is immaterial to the quality of a film. For every Man of Steel or Les Misérables where you are constantly wondering when in the hell it’s going to end , there is a Lawrence of Arabia or an Avatar in which you are left feeling completely satiated, and wondering how time could have seemingly moved so quickly once it ends and your realize about 3 hours have passed.

1394. Curious Cadet - July 26, 2013

@1390 Marja,
“I don’t think it’s at all true that either Kirk’s or Spock’s role “suffered” because of Uhura, and second, I don’t understand why any other roles “must” suffer. *Too much time was spent destroying things and crushing heads and kicking and punching cruelly.* ”

I think you likely hit the nail on the head with respect to the amount of violence vs. the amount of character development — and thats the whole reason for my proposal in the first place.

Of course when I use the word “suffer”, I don’t necessarily mean in terms of quality, more in the amount of screen time they were given. Indeed, I’m not attempting to comment on the substance of their roles, merely the concrete visibility they were given. TOS had a particular balance. I’m not advocating for a return to that balance, merely observing that the new movie chages it, and has consequences for the other characters. Again, much of Spock’s screen time involved Uhura, thereby short-changing the amount of independent evolution his character would have otherwise gotten. Kirk ‘sacrifices’ screen time to Uhura and Spock’s relationship. I’m not saying it’s bad, just that an increased presence by any character necessarily decreases the others.

It’s a simple formula really. Lets say a classic TOS 1-hour episode featured Kirk 30 percent, Spock 30, McCoy 20, Scotty 10, Uhura 3, Sulu 3, Chekov 3, and Chapel 1. Obviously if Uhura shoots up to 20, that additional 17 percent has to come out of somebody’s time, right? No matter how long the movie, or how much of the remainder is filled with explosions and violence. Of the available screen time for character development, there’s still going to be a ratio between the characters, and somebody is always going to have less time than another based on the importance placed upon them in the film.

But that’s all I’m observing. It’s not a judgement call. I like having a strong female influence in the cast (I’m sorry the idea of Number One was shot down by the network originally). And yes it’s about time they gave Uhura (or any female) a greater role in this crew. But had they decided to do the same thing with Chekov or Sulu instead (leaving Uhura as she was depicted in the 60s), I’d still be making the same observation about one of those guys shaving off focus from the other characters as well, including what little time Uhura had to bein with.

So, back to the Star Wars-Marvel model of interstitial movies between the main chapter installments … So now lets have one which features Spock and Uhura as a team, and really explore their relationship, rather than fit it in appropriately wherever they could find a money between the action of The main films. The main goal in keeping the Star Trek name out there, giving the fans more of what they want, and getting audiences more invested in who these characters really are.

1395. Curious Cadet - July 26, 2013

^^^^
Wow, auto-correct had a field day with that last paragraph — should have been:

So now lets have one, in addition, which features Spock and Uhura as a team, and really explore their relationship, rather than fit it in INappropriately wherever they could find a MOMENT between the action of The main films.

1396. Phil - July 26, 2013

Figured this thread would have been shut down by now….

1397. Phil - July 26, 2013

@1381. Right. Amateur hour on national television. What could possibly go wrong. If you want to see that, SyFy has some reality shows that should be to your liking.

I suspect explaining intellectual property rights, copyright, trademark and contract law would be a complete waste of time…..

1398. Captain Slow - July 26, 2013

To try and steer this back to discussing future Star Trek, why do we only have one series of Trek movies at one time? Obviously you don’t want to over-saturate things but what would be wrong with having a stand-alone Kelvin movie in 2015?

1399. Who cares - July 26, 2013

@1396. I’d watch that, but I suspect that finding a space in Chris Hemsworth and Farahn Tarahir’s schedules might not be easy, and you would need both for a movie about the Kelvin.

1400. Yanks - July 26, 2013

I for one don’t want some cartoon!

Bring trek back to the small screen.

All you need to do is find the right writers and it will be a hit!!

Syndication!!!

Come on CBS, pony up!!

1401. Curious Cadet - July 26, 2013

@1397. Who cares,
” I suspect that finding a space in Chris Hemsworth and Farahn Tarahir’s schedules might not be easy, and you would need both for a movie about the Kelvin.”

They both died in the attack by Nero. So where’s the jeopardy in any prequel? We know they don’t die until Nero arrives. You could take it back to the Prime universe, but how would you explain it so that the current Abram’s movie fans would get that and understand the character’s futures are now open?

Also, Hemsworth would have to lose at least 50 pounds to play George Kirk again, and I don’t see him doing that until his gig as Thor is over. And how confusing would it be to have two Kirk’s? Especially where the son is an inexperienced captain and the father who seemingly has all the qualifications to be Captain serves in a lesser role.

If they did this it would have to be a total reboot with new actors. I’m not a big fan of the name Kelvin either.

1402. Ahmed - July 26, 2013

Hollywood is seriously lacking any originality. The Butterfly Effect, a movie that only came out in 2004 is about to get a remake !!!
Really, they can’t get anything new at all in Hollywood ??

@1386. Keachick

My point was that no government body should have the power to ban any movie. They can give it strict rating like NC-17 but not banning it.
Beside, banning a movie doesn’t make any sense in the age of p2p networks where anyone can download the movie.

1403. Phil - July 26, 2013

@1401. Well, unless that was the maiden of Kelvin, there should be plenty of good stories to tell prior to Nero’s incursion. In the bigger point, that segment is what is needed to establish a character, ensemble, or mission that could be spun off into a TV show…and if Hemsworth or Tarahir are not available, recast them.

The problem now with pulling something out of thin air in Hollywood is that the decision makers are very risk adverse these days – and this could end up being a failing of STID, in that Khan, as a character, really isn’t someone you could build a spin off TV show around. If Trek does head back to TV, budget is going to be an issue. I also suspect that how The Wolverine preforms this weekend will be closely watched, if it does well Hollywood will probably start reining in the budgets on their tentpoles very quickly. It’s already been noticed that the box office is down on these types of movies, shoveling even more cash at them doesn’t solve the problem of making quality movies.

1404. Phil - July 26, 2013

maiden voyage…

1405. Craiger - July 26, 2013

Wouldn’t Trek on TV cost $3 Million an episode not to mention the pilot cost? That could be a very big reason why its not back on TV. Would CBS want to take a chance spending something like what $20 Million on the pilot and then $9 Million on a couple of episodes and have it flop?

1406. Phil - July 26, 2013

Well, ultimately it does come down to someone taking a chance. SyFy took a chance on the BSG reboot, but it was a quality product. That’s what’s so disturbing about getting the show back on TV, is that all the chatter here tends to focus on dusting off some banal secondary character, rebooting TOS yet again, or even worse, doing fan fiction. If this ends up on Showtime, it will be original, and unlike any Trek we have seen before. Shows like Game of Thrones have been described at televised novels, and have been very good for the cable stations. There’s no reason to believe a good sci-fi show would not be embraced as well…

1407. Who cares - July 26, 2013

@1401, 1403. I thought the guy I was responding to was talking about a stand alone movie set aboard the Kelvin, which I would watch, just like I would also watch a new animated Trek series (if it was done half as well as Young Justice it would still be several hundred times better that TAS).

1408. Phil - July 26, 2013

@1405. An effects driven should would be pricey, so we would need to expect a story driven show. People who are pining for epic space battles every week are likely to be disappointed, as the show would be character and event driven.

@1406. I’m not opposed to doing a Kelvin movie, but given what we know about Kelvin, I’d be inclined to move her to TV, to flesh out the characters and universe prior to Nero’s excursion. A Kelvin movie would have to be a epic adventure and might have to be a harder project to sell….

1409. Craiger - July 26, 2013

I guess then a Romulan War series would be out? I think that is what Enterprise should have been all about and then end the series with the founding of the Federation.

1410. Marja - July 26, 2013

Curious,

I definitely agree with your idea for *two* interstitial movies. In fact the one with Spock and Uhura should also feature McCoy, or Sulu and Chekov : )

As to the division of screen time, there won’t be any changing my mind … let us agree to disagree on that one.

1411. Phil - July 26, 2013

^^^^
Not sure I’d want to see the Romulan War played out. Among other things, Enterprise pretty much turned that chunk of canon on it’s ear during it’s run, to the point where regardless of what they do they will hack off a portion of the fan base. Given that it appears that it takes quite a while for earth to build a warp 5 capable ship, and the other members of this new Federation seem much further along in their warp programs, a program that explores early human space exploration with just a background of Federation stuff should be plenty sufficient.

1412. Curious Cadet - July 26, 2013

@1403. Phil,
“Well, unless that was the maiden of Kelvin, there should be plenty of good stories to tell prior to Nero’s incursion.”

But the exact same thing could be said for Kirk, Spock, et al. The ONLY reason we are in an alternate universe in Abrams’ movies is because in the Prime universe everybody knows how Kirk and Spock and the rest die, or at least that they all live long and prosper, most into the mid-24th century! Thus tying the producers to canon, and removing all potential jeopardy from any story. How can the audience fear for the lives of anyone in the crew when they know they all have to make it out safely? Kirk and other crew members apparently died in TOS on ocassion, but what a hollow and pointless exercise if the audience already knew their future? While I would like to see the exploits of a young Prime Kirk and Spock and the rest, it doesn’t mean as much knowing there’s no real danger for anyone. It’s more of a forensic exercise in telling the story.

So sure, you could tell all the stories the Kelvin has to tell until Nero came along, but it would be like a historical drama where you know how it will end, rather than an edge of your seat action adventure where you don’t.

1413. Ahmed - July 26, 2013

I think that any new Trek series or spin-off movies should look forward & not backward. Having a new series about the Kelvin doesn’t seem the right move.

I want any new Trek to be set from 200 to 400 years from the last time we saw the Enterprise E. To explore the Federation in that far future & go out of our galaxy to the next one & meet different races & strange phenomena.

1414. Craiger - July 26, 2013

Ahmed, I think that could turn off the general TV audience because of the advanced technobabble. I know TNG was popular but I wonder how the general TV audience dealt with the TNG technobabble. Imagine the technobabble 25th, 26th or 27th Centuries? That’s why I think Trek maybe done on TV.

I want Trek to return to TV but I am not sure what is left for Trek on TV. Maybe they could reboot TOS on TV set in on the Enterprise’s sister ship in Abrams Universe? Or maybe they could do another prequel. I thought maybe a Romulan War series could be too expensive but maybe if they focused more on the ship an crew during the war. Say set it on the NX-03 Columbia and maybe just show the most important battles? Or just little skirmishes and cargo runs? Maybe Bakula could make a cameo appearance or two>>

1415. Keachick - July 26, 2013

#1402 – “My point was that no government body should have the power to ban any movie. They can give it strict rating like NC-17 but not banning it.
Beside, banning a movie doesn’t make any sense in the age of p2p networks where anyone can download the movie.”

The strictest rating here is, I believe, R18 (X-rated). The censors are rating film and literary material pursuant to an Act of the NZ Parliament. Britain has a similar Act as well. The Act also gives the NZ Customs and Police certain powers to see that the rulings are adhered to and power to prosecute those who violate the law. People may also appeal any rulings.

Who decides what film is deemed to be too pournographic and/or violent in the US? Do your police have legal power to enforce such rulings and to confiscate any such material and prosecute those who have this material in their possession? Just wondering…because I always thought that US Law Enforcement Agencies like the FBI did have such powers.

1416. Craiger - July 26, 2013

Sorry I forgot the NX-03 I think was going to be called the Challenger.

1417. MJ (The Original). - July 26, 2013

We are in the 3rd very successful season of Falling Skies in TNT, and they’ve just ordered Season 4.

This proves you can do a fairly standard scifi show on TV still.

1418. MJ (The Original). - July 26, 2013

How about a cable TV series rooted in nuTrek current time, that would be called “Starbase”, and would focus on the most remote Stabase in the Federation. It would take sort of DS9 approach, but would occur in in the late 2250′s/early 2260′s.

1419. Captain Slow - July 26, 2013

In regards to my Kelvin movie idea, I was thinking of something set around the time of its first mission to give the characters real introductions. It could also add more emotional impact to the opening scenes of ST09 if done right.

@ 1418 MJ

I like the idea of a 23rd century DS9 equivalent. As long as they understood what made DS9 (and Babylon 5) great it could end up being just as good or better.

1420. Craiger - July 27, 2013

MJ, their is also the Scifi series Continuum about a cop and a gang from 2077 that is sent back to present day by the head of a Corporation. Its on Fridays at 10 PM Eastern on Syfy. Its actually a Canadian Scifi series they get the first run episodes first then Syfy gets them later. Syfy is on Season 2.

1421. Craiger - July 27, 2013

I forgot the Cop from 2077 is Rachael Nichols who played that Orion Girl in ST 2009.

1422. Curious Cadet - July 27, 2013

@1419. Captain Slow,
“In regards to my Kelvin movie idea, I was thinking of something set around the time of its first mission to give the characters real introductions. It could also add more emotional impact to the opening scenes of ST09 if done right.”

ST09 has made it’s money. It’s unlikely a studio is going to back a movie that solely helps enhance a movie that has already made most of the money it’s ever going to make.

And I will emphasize again, what you propose is no different than leaving Star Trek in the Prime universe. Abrams could have just as easily told the origin story of Kirk, Spock, et al in the Prime universe, but that would have locked him into merely telling an exciting story, one in which nothing terribly unpredictable could happen since we know everyone lives to serve the 5 year mission and the canon beyond. So there’s a palpable reason to make the decision Abrams did, which makes it just as unlikely anyone would lock themselves into predictable canon in the future.

You could set the Kelvin exploits in the Prime universe, but not only would that be confusing for new Abrams fans, but there’s still the fact that George Kirk has to live at least long enough to create James T., plus the fact Prime Spock has now established George lived long enough to see his son become Captain of the Enterprise. So all jeopardy is removed. Yes we all know nothing can really happen to the main characters, but when you remove all doubt, the stories become somewhat hollow.

We fans are like forensic archeologists … We love to take a moment from an episode and expand on it, even though we know the outcome. It’s not about the surprise of the story telling anymore, but the analysis of the event itself. Sort of like The Cage — many fans would like to see the mission on Rigel VIII, but from a general audience standpoint, doing so would be a little boring, since we already know the outcome. Such stories make for great flashback sequences in revealing new information that affects a future plot, but terrible stand-alone stories on their own.

1423. Who cares - July 27, 2013

@1388. So did you link to that wikipedia article because it only shows a tiny portion of the films actually banned in New Zealand or what? I looked at that list and found about 10 films tagged as banned in NZ, then I looked at a NZ govenment website, and found about 60 banned movies, many that I would never watch to be sure, but seriously NZ banned Mad Max, Power Rangers and Pokemon, and there is apparently a list of banned baby names in NZ as well. I don’t even know what to say to that except wtf gives any government the right to tell any parent what they can or can’t name their own child. Granted there are a fair number of Americans with stupid names like Dwezil Zappa and Moon Unit Zappa, Kal-El Cage, and others, but I myself would never under any circumstances live under a government that believed it had the right to dictate to me what I can and cannot name my children.

Seriouly the more I learn about NZ the gladder I am that I will never, ever, live there.

1424. Ahmed - July 27, 2013

@1422. Who cares

“then I looked at a NZ govenment website, and found about 60 banned movies, many that I would never watch to be sure, but seriously NZ banned Mad Max, Power Rangers and Pokemon, and there is apparently a list of banned baby names in NZ as well. I don’t even know what to say to that except wtf gives any government the right to tell any parent what they can or can’t name their own child. ”

wow, they actually banned Power Rangers and Pokemon !! That reminded me of what the Egyptian Censorship Board used to do when I was living there, when they banned movies like the Matrix, The Mummy, Prince of Egypt & other mainstream movies !!!

And are you saying they also ban baby names ?? That is even worse than Egypt. Who give them the authority to do that?

1425. MJ (The Original). - July 27, 2013

You guys think that’s bad, you should see what they used to ban in Old Zealand.

1426. Ahmed - July 27, 2013

MJ,

oh, so it was much worse in the past ?

1427. MJ (The Original). - July 27, 2013

@1426. Yea, back in Old Zealand, Gone with the Wind and Charlie Chaplin movies were banned.

1428. MJ (The Original). - July 27, 2013

All,

Look at the very disappointing box office for Wolverine — just as a predicted, people are growing fatigued with of the Marvel Wolverine movies, and Jackman has stayed on too long in the part.

I mean enough of the silly angst of the guy trying to find himself and his whining about his situation, especially given the actor is approaching 50 now. Been there, done that…boring!!!

1429. Ahmed - July 27, 2013

MJ,

Agreed about the Wolverine. After watching X-Men Origins: Wolverine back in 2009 I lost interest in the character. And the trailer for the new Wolverine didn’t do anything to change my mind. It is not worth going to the theater for, I will wait for it on DVD instead.

What they should have done is to give the amazing Michael Fassbender his own movie as Magneto & let go of this silly Wolverine character for now.

1430. Red Dead Ryan - July 27, 2013

I still plan on seeing “Wolverine”. Probably on Tuesday, when it’ll be only 6 dollars.

As for Old Zealand, not sure where that place is. But I suppose any name with “Zeal” in it must have something to do with some sort of zealotry, I suppose. “Banning movies with zeal”. :-)

1431. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - July 27, 2013

@1423. Who cares – July 27, 2013

Where on Earth are you getting your NZ movie classification info from???

In NZ:
Pokemon First Movie is rated G
Mad Max is rated R18-GV
Mad Max 2 is rated M-V
Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome is rated M-V

This information is from http://www.censorship.govt.nz/search-for-a-classification/search-for-a-classification.html

1432. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - July 27, 2013

As for banned children’s names…

How would you like to be stuck with “Talula Does The Hula From Hawaii”, or “Number 16 Bus Shelter”, or “4Real’, or even “.”

The above are real examples of rejected names.

Since 1995, the Births, Deaths and Marriages and Relationships Registration Act has provided a set of rules around acceptable names for New Zealanders.

Under the rules, names should not cause offence to a reasonable person, be unreasonably long or should not without adequate justification be, include or resemble an official title or rank.

1433. Ahmed - July 27, 2013

@ 1432. ObsessiveStarTrekFan – July 27, 2013

“As for banned children’s names…
How would you like to be stuck with “Talula Does The Hula From Hawaii”, or “Number 16 Bus Shelter”, or “4Real’, or even “.”
The above are real examples of rejected names.”

wow people actually tried to name their kids with these ridiculous names ?
Well, I guess there is a reason after all for banning some baby names.

1434. Keachick - July 27, 2013

“Zeeland
Dutch province
Zeeland, also called Zealand in English, is the westernmost province of the Netherlands. The province, located in the south-west of the country, consists of a number of islands and a strip bordering Belgium. Its capital is Middelburg.” Wikipedia

New ZEALAND was first discovered by a Dutchman called Abel Tasman in 1642 and the two large islands were given the name (New) Zealand. However, it was not until 1796 when Captain Cook sailed down to these parts that any real contact was made with the indigenous Maori and European colonization began. My husband’s father family arrived here in 1804.

Countries ban stuff all the time. Sometimes it is legitimate, other times not. Appeals can be made to the Classifications Board, rulings overturned, classifications changed.

I first saw Mad Max on NZ free-to-air television and some of it made me sick. In the 1980′s a remastered version of Gone With the Wind was screened at cinemas in NZ and they were packed out. For many, this was not their first viewing. Obviously, over time, the initial ruling was changed. Nothing is set in stone – for better and worse.

1435. Marja - July 27, 2013

1428 MJ “I mean enough of the silly angst of the guy trying to find himself and his whining about his situation, especially given the actor is approaching 50 now.”

MJ I go thru silly angst all the time, trying to find myself and whining about my situation … and I’m a little past approaching 50 : )

1436. MJ (The Original). - July 27, 2013

@1435 Me too, and I turn 50 later this year. That is why this is the last thing I need to see on the big screen.

:-)

1437. Captain Slow - July 28, 2013

@ 1422 Curious Cadet

The biggest problem with the idea is the fact that we know what happens. The main reason I suggested the Kelvin is because general audiences who saw the 2009 movie will be familiar with it. Unlike the Titan or something that only Trekkies know about. Another reason I suggested it is because I think the Kelvin is one of the most awesome looking ships in all of Star Trek.

I think it would be possible to have stand-alone movies going at the same time as the Kirk movies. The trick would be to have a cast and setting that people like. And everyone liked the Kelvin and its characters.

1438. Disinvited - July 28, 2013

#1434. Keachick – July 27, 2013

I’ll never understand why such statements continue to persist in western histories, i.e. “New ZEALAND was first discovered by a Dutchman called Abel Tasman in 1642…” Obviously, “the indigenous Maori” first discovered it.

1439. Nick - July 28, 2013

1438 …. Do you really know who discovered New Zealand? There were people before the Maori.

1440. Disinvited - July 28, 2013

#1439. Nick – July 28, 2013

Well, I’m aware of the best evidence to date but I’m open to any new evidence and my main point is if you find an island with people already on it, then you obviously didn’t “discover” anything land mass-wise. DNA which seems to be the gold standard for evidence these days says the Maori are descendants of the first Polynesians to “discover” the islands. I’d be happy to look at any homo floresiensis or other evidence you’ve dug up and change my mind.

One thing, of which I am certain: “The Dutch” weren’t the discoverers of New Zealand.

1441. crazydaystrom - July 28, 2013

@1403

Best idea for a new series I’ve heard yet Phil!-

STAR TREK: MAIDEN of KELVIN!!!
‘These are the voyages of the virginal future Mrs. Winona Kirk who, during her five-year mission aboard the starship Kelvin, quaintly but admirably protects her precious maidenhead against the persistent (and sometimes aggressive) intentions of the many charming and roguish horndogs of the alpha quadrant who desire to go where no man…no ONE…has gone before!’

I’d LIKE that ship! Y’know, it’d be EXCITING!!

The show would work best on a cable channel, all things considered. And might be banned in New Zealand , sorry Rose, (though I hope it will stand a better chance in Nu Zealand).

Wait a minute!
________
1404. Phil –
“maiden voyage…”
________

Oh…….never mind.

1442. William Bradley - July 28, 2013

Just as predicted??

The Wolverine is not a Marvel movie. It’s a 20th Century Fox movie.

Marvel hasn’t done any of the X-Men movies, going back to the beginning 13 years ago.

Despite the fatigue factor at the domestic box office, The Wolverine is opening huge internationally. It’s already past ST09′s total international box office.

When Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Thor Into Darkness and Guardians of the Galaxy and The Avengers 2 all bomb, your prediction will be correct.

And I will be living on a planet orbiting Tau Ceti. :)

BTW, The Wolverine cost less than two-thirds what STID cost.

>1428. MJ (The Original). – July 27, 2013
All,

Look at the very disappointing box office for Wolverine — just as a predicted, people are growing fatigued with of the Marvel Wolverine movies, and Jackman has stayed on too long in the part.

I mean enough of the silly angst of the guy trying to find himself and his whining about his situation, especially given the actor is approaching 50 now. Been there, done that…boring!!!

1443. Ahmed - July 28, 2013

@ 1442. William Bradley – July 28, 2013

“Despite the fatigue factor at the domestic box office, The Wolverine is opening huge internationally. It’s already past ST09′s total international box office.”

Actually this not totally accurate yet. “Star Trek” 2009 total international box office was $127,950,427. “The Wolverine” total in the international market so far is $86,100,000.

Source: Box Office Mojo

So it didn’t pass ST09 international market yet but it will do that in the coming weeks, specially when you take into account the fact that the movie is not out yet in China & Japan.

And unlike STID that cost $190 million, “The Wolverine” cost only $120 million.

1444. Keachick - July 28, 2013

#1438 – Yes, I agree. It should be prefaced by the words “the first UK/Europeans to discover…” and that goes for the North American continent et al as well.

#1439 – You mean the Moriori. They are the indigenous inhabitants of the Chatham Islands, which are now part of NZ. They never lived on either of the two main islands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people

Oh dear, MJ – what’s with you?

1445. MJ (The Original). - July 28, 2013

@1442 “Wolverine is a fictional character, a superhero that appears in comic books published by Marvel Comics.”

@1442

Huh? That was some guy named “Nick” commenting on the origins of New Zealand — not me???

@1443

“Actually this not totally accurate yet. “Star Trek” 2009 total international box office was $127,950,427. “The Wolverine” total in the international market so far is $86,100,000.”

William was just excited, so he was trying to “cherry-pick” anything he could find from blockbuster movies years ago which had poor enough international showings that were close enough for him to make his GOTCHA point on me. So what if his numbers are $40M+ off — what’s $40M between friends, right guys? LOL

1446. Disco Spock - July 28, 2013

“William was just excited, so he was trying to “cherry-pick” anything he could find from blockbuster movies years ago which had poor enough international showings that were close enough for him to make his GOTCHA point on me. So what if his numbers are $40M+ off — what’s $40M between friends, right guys? LOL”

WHOOPS !!! :-))

1447. Keachick - July 28, 2013

MJ – My query is about your apparent turnaround when it came to whether a particular movie should be banned or not. At first, you seemed to agree with me over the banning of Maniac because of its most unsavoury content (for want of a better description), then you appear to backpeddle and start agreeing with the comments made by Red Dead Ryan and Ahmed.

“Who decides what film is deemed to be too pournographic and/or violent in the US? Do your police have legal power to enforce such rulings and to confiscate any such material and prosecute those who have this material in their possession? Just wondering…because I always thought that US Law Enforcement Agencies like the FBI did have such powers.”

These questions of mine have not been answered by North Americans posting here. FBI stands for Federal Bureau of Investigation and is a US GOVERNMENT law enforcement agency. I do not need to know the answers to these questions for myself, but maybe some of you do.

The people who make up the board that gets to classify film and literary material are ordinary NZ citizens, male and female, from a cross-section of NZ society.

I, for one, am glad to be living in a society where no one has the right to be in possession of a handgun. I feel quite safe and do not feel the sense of intimidation by knowing that ordinary people can have a firearm or see anyone with such a weapon. I have never seen any NZ police officer wear one and I hope I never do. Frankly, that means far more to me than a group of people saying that maybe a particular film goes too far in terms of violence and general mindf*ck (which is what it is) or the fact that Internal Affairs think that some names should never be inflicted on any child.

Get a grip, people.

1448. MJ (The Original). - July 28, 2013

@1447

What in the hell are you talking about. I made up a joke about an imaginary place called Old Zealand, with imaginary bans for movies from the 30′s. It was a complete fabrication — HUMOR!!

My goodness, your are dense.

Yes, I agree with you on the point still.

1449. Ahmed - July 28, 2013

An interesting article comparing DS9 & STID

————————————————————

8 Star Trek Deep Space Nine Plotlines That Will Fill ‘Into Darkness’ Void

If the hope of Trekkers around the world for the new Star Trek movie was to delve into the relationships and backgrounds of the characters, or to explore deep-seated questions of intergalactic politics and morality, they were deeply mistaken. More than likely my fellow Trekkies walked out of the movie amazed at the visual effects but as Star Trek movies go found the movie unsatisfying.

I hear them ask: Where are the plotlines that make me think? Where the heck are the discussions about that oh so provocative and seemingly self-serving prime directive? Where are the new worlds?

.
.
.
.
1. Major Character Growth

One of the real downfalls of the new movies is that there is no character development. You always return to where you were in the beginning. Kirk and Spock are still frenemies, Spock and Uhura are still ambiguous and there is no relationship building between the other characters.
……………
Also long lasting friendships were born. Kira stopped looking at Sisko as just the emissary. Sisko and Dax deepened a friendship that has lasted through three lifetimes. Jadzia Dax and Bashir turned what used to be simple flirtations into friendship built on respect. Bashir and Garak forged their friendship over weekly dinners during the whole of the series. Jadzia Dax and Kira became best friends. Quark finally started to respect his brother, Rom.

These people were intertwined in each other’s lives and because you saw the friendships and bonds form naturally highly emotional scenes between the characters became more believable and less forced – unlike the scene between Kirk and Spock in “Into Darkness”

Source: http://whatculture.com/tv/8-star-trek-deep-space-nine-plotlines-that-will-fill-into-darkness-void.php
————————————————————

1450. Keachick - July 28, 2013

Please, MJ – Sorry for being so dense. It seems that other people believed you though or did they? I don’t know. It is hard to know whether people are being serious or not sometimes.

#1449 – How many seasons and hours of television did it take to develop the characters in DS9? Way more than 4 hours…

It seems I am not the only dense one around these parts, and what’s more this crap gets repeated over and over. Duh!

1451. Ahmed - July 28, 2013

@1450. Keachick

“#1449 – How many seasons and hours of television did it take to develop the characters in DS9? Way more than 4 hours…”

I take it that you never watched a 2 hour movie that manage to have great sense of character study & development ?

Movies like “Training Day”, “Crash”, “Memento”, “Taxi Driver” and many other movies that manage to do just that.

“It seems I am not the only dense one around these parts, and what’s more this crap gets repeated over and over. Duh!””

I’ve no clue to what “crap” you are referring here!!

1452. MJ (The Original). - July 28, 2013

No problem, Keachick,

Ahmed, you are forgetting one character that developed significantly in this movie, who had not been developed much in the last movie — Scotty!

Also, wasn’t the whole point of the movie focused on the continuing development of the relationship and friendship between Kirk and Spock? I could have sworn I saw those two characters develop in STID — I mean, come on, that was the point of the whole movie, right?

Ahmed, maybe we can at least agree that the story and screenplay wasn’t all that great, and the the pacing and logic was just too action movie oriented — I can agree with you on those points. Maybe stick to that, because you saying stuff like the CGI wasn’t that great or there was no character development just don’t seem to be credible criticisms in my personal opinion.

1453. Basement Blogger - July 28, 2013

After watching the Comic Con coverage, I want for Star Trek a piece of the action. I mean the media hype. I wonder if Star Trek needs a czar. Someone who will promote Star Trek seven days a week. Maybe he could reside over at Star Trek’s official website. He could:

1. Set up up interviews; I mean web video interviews.

2. Do round table discussions on Star Trek episodes or movies. Think of something like have someone from the ACLU and a security minded conservative discuss STID’s ideas regarding security versus adherence to due process. Remember Spock’s questioning of killing Harrison without a trial?

3. Have a celebrity host a Star Trek episode for the official website, broadcast or DVD. Say, . J.J. Abrams hosts “The Doomsday Machine.”

My hope is that by preaching Star Trek, the box office will get better and there will be an increase in the sales of Star Trek merchandise including the series DVDs. More money for Star Trek, the more Star Trek. And hopefully there will be a new Star Trek TV series.

1454. MJ (The Original). - July 28, 2013

@1453. I AGREE 200%

You simply can’t have a major-ass movie like STID, and not even show up to Comicon the year before. What in the F were they thinking???

I mean, Falling Skies goes every year in mass, for Christ’s sake.

1455. Ahmed - July 28, 2013

@ 1452. MJ (The Original). – July 28, 2013

“Also, wasn’t the whole point of the movie focused on the continuing development of the relationship and friendship between Kirk and Spock?”

I didn’t see much development.

ST09:

Kirk & Spock hate each other in the beginning of the movie because of The Kobayashi Maru scenario.
At the end of the movie, they bonded & worked together to overcome the villain.

STID:

Kirk dislike Spock in the beginning of the movie because Spock wrote a report to Captain Pike.
At the end of the movie, they bonded & worked together to overcome the villain & in the process Spoke screamed Khannnnnnnnnnn

So much for character development !!

They did flushed out Scotty character, which was nice. But very little or no character development for the rest of the crew.

As for the CGI, again I didn’t say it wasn’t great. What I said that the CGI wasn’t new or creative. They were typical CGI that you expect from a summer movie.

1456. Ahmed - July 28, 2013

@ 1454. MJ (The Original). – July 28, 2013

“@1453. I AGREE 200%

You simply can’t have a major-ass movie like STID, and not even show up to Comicon the year before. What in the F were they thinking???

I mean, Falling Skies goes every year in mass, for Christ’s sake.”

Agree, they wasted a good publicity when they ignored Comic Con last year.

@ 1453. Basement Blogger – July 28, 2013

“After watching the Comic Con coverage, I want for Star Trek a piece of the action. I mean the media hype. I wonder if Star Trek needs a czar. Someone who will promote Star Trek seven days a week. Maybe he could reside over at Star Trek’s official website.”

Somehow I get the feelings that the suits at paramount/CBS don’t care enough about Star Trek to do that.

1457. Vultan - July 28, 2013

Good grief, for a summer so hot it’s been lukewarm in most cases at the box office. Might this be the year audiences give the big shrug to tentpole flicks? Sort of looking that way, though there have been a few exceptions.

Too much of a… well, I was going to say ‘a good thing,’ but they haven’t been all that good.

I think the main problem with STID wasn’t that it was bad or awful so much as it was… ordinary.

1458. Vultan - July 28, 2013

Then again, maybe bad is the new ordinary.

1459. Craiger - July 28, 2013

You said it Vultan. I think they could have just made Cumberbatch be just John Harrison, Admiral Marcus henchman. He could have been a genius without Khan and Admiral Marcus would have ordered to start building new weapons to help defend Starfleet and the Federation from Alien threats. Nero could have scared Marcus and some of the Starfleet brass so much they feared any new threat and they saw the Klingons as the next one.

1460. MJ (The Original). - July 28, 2013

@1456. Well, we will have to agree to disagree again then. IMO, the movie had its faults, and was nowhere near as good at STO9, but:

1. The special effects were better than any movie I have seen this year to date; and

2. The Kirk-Spock relationship (and associated characterization) was advanced considerably in this movie.

I think you bring up some valid points, Ahmed, but I feel your general dislike and irritation with this movie might be leading you to even not be able to see the parts of the movie that were pretty damn good. You seem to have a “glass if half empty” viewpoint on all aspects of this movie and can’t even acknowledge where the movie did excel?

1461. MJ (The Original). - July 28, 2013

@ 1459 ” I think they could have just made Cumberbatch be just John Harrison, Admiral Marcus henchman. He could have been a genius without Khan and Admiral Marcus would have ordered to start building new weapons to help defend Starfleet and the Federation from Alien threats. Nero could have scared Marcus and some of the Starfleet brass so much they feared any new threat and they saw the Klingons as the next one.”

Great criticism of the movie — I agree! This get to the heart of the problems with it. No need to artificially slam the special effects or characterization — the huge story and plot logic issues are where the legitimate problems are with the movie.

1462. Craiger - July 28, 2013

Thanks, MJ.

1463. Craiger - July 28, 2013

However I did forget one thing how Khan’s blood would figure into the story with Cumberbatch just being John Harrison? Could they have just left that part out?

1464. Ahmed - July 28, 2013

@MJ

“I think you bring up some valid points, Ahmed, but I feel your general dislike and irritation with this movie might be leading you to even not be able to see the parts of the movie that were pretty damn good. You seem to have a “glass if half empty” viewpoint on all aspects of this movie and can’t even acknowledge where the movie did excel?”

I never disliked a Star Trek movie in the same way that I disliked STID, except maybe for that stupid ending of “Star Trek Generations”. And STID was the only Trek movie that I didn’t go to see again in the theater.
So, I do find it hard to see ” the parts of the movie that were pretty damn good.”.

@ 1459. Craiger – July 28, 2013

“Nero could have scared Marcus and some of the Starfleet brass so much they feared any new threat and they saw the Klingons as the next one.”

Agreed, that is a very logical conclusion to the Nero incursion. Starfleet Command will be scared & will try to come up with something to defend the Federation against the new & dangerous elements out there in the galaxy. If the writers went that way, STID would have been a very interesting movie.

1465. Keachick - July 28, 2013

I think that people get too caught on the fact that John Harrison calls himself Khan, but then again, ever since TWOK, some people seemed to have developed a Khan-obsession. Unfortunately, the writers have picked on that obvious obsession and have played on it. Oddly, it doesn’t really bother me in the way that it has clearly angered so many. I actually find it a little ironic and amusing…

I just see this character as being John Harrison who has notions of being Khan. Admiral Marcus used this Khan to help him build more advanced weaponry, some of it without Starfleet approval, hence the secrecy.

I think my only real problem has to do with how easily would it have been for Harrison to redesign the torpedoes so that they could safely hide his cryogenically frozen crew of 72. Obviously Admiral Marcus found out what he had done and Marcus’s solution was a *good* one…ie playing on Kirk’s desire to prove himself capable of following orders etc and using Kirk and the Enterprise as bait/cannon fodder to start a war with the Klingons. Clearly, Admiral Marcus was no respecter of friend or foe. With friends like that…

Although I understand why Spock screamed “Khaaaan” when Kirk died, it would have sounded more natural to me if he had screamed “Noooo!” and then seeing him going after this Khan. After Uhura had stunned Khan and Khan was down, then Spock, while punching him, screamed “Khan, you butchering/bloody bastard” or “F*ck you, Khan” – that *f* word being the only allowable bad word of the movie.

1466. Craiger - July 28, 2013

Thanks, Ahmed, I didn’t like the way Generations ended either. I think they should have never killed Kirk and let him beam up to the Farragut. I saw something like this. Picard, Kirk and Riker are on the destroyed bridge of the Enterprise. Kirk says “Jean Luc what have you done to the Enterprise?” Picard – “Don’t look at me I wasn’t in command.” Kirk and Picard look over at Riker. “Picard to Farragout three to beam up.” Riker – “Boy is Starfleet going to be surprised.”

1467. Keachick - July 28, 2013

Or better still, since the writers clearly wanted a role reversal to occur in this alternate universe, ie have Kirk *die* and Spock scream “Khaaaaan!”, perhaps Spock could have howled out the name as he was being beamed onto the barge…

1468. Craiger - July 28, 2013

Orci talks Trek 3 and TV series. Say they don’t have an idea yet for the third one and are talking to CBS about the Trek TV rights.

http://collider.com/gavin-hood-bob-orci-enders-game-star-trek-3-interview/#more-270983

1469. Craiger - July 28, 2013

Review of Trek: After Darkness. It does sound like Orci and crew want the Abrams Universe to eventually become the TOS prime Universe. This comic is a remake of Amok Time. I forgot if Orci said their comics are canon. If so I wonder if that is the direction they will go with the films? Would that be a good idea or not. If they go that way then I wonder if the third one will be based on Errand of Mercy since that is when the Federation/Klingon conflict starts to heat up and since they had Klingons in STID and Admiral Marcus mentioned the Klingons as a threat.

http://trekweb.com/articles/2013/07/28/Comics-Review-Star-Trek-Ongoing-23.shtml

1470. MJ (The Original). - July 28, 2013

@1468

“Orci talks Trek 3 and TV series. Say they don’t have an idea yet for the third one and are talking to CBS about the Trek TV rights.”

This is just ridiculous. The screenplay for STID was completed over 1.5 years ago, and the writing team has no fracking story ideas for nuTrek 3 yet?

Are you kidding me??? Really, Bob..really???

If that is true, then we need to new writing team ASAP.

This I find to be completely ridiculous!!! Not one idea???

1471. Keachick - July 28, 2013

Blood is “magical” liquid just as it is. However, it does seem that Harrison/Khan and quite probably many, if not all, of the 72 people also contained similar special blood components. For some reason, I find the concept of “magical blood” or being able to retrieve a special serum that allows for regeneration of dead and dying cells within the bounds of what might be possible. Time was of the essence, which is one of the reasons why Pike and others could not have been brought back to life.

Craiger – I think everybody would have much preferred your ending to the one in the Generations film. I really think that, at the very least, they could have left it open, as in Picard had an unconscious Kirk beamed aboard one of the rescue ships – still alive but in a serious condition…he could go either way – sort of thing… After William Shatner, the studio and Star Trek fans have had time to think – Kirk’s status could have been related to audiences through a comment made by Captain Picard either at the beginning or at the end of the Nemesis film.

Oh well, what’s done is done…sigh…

1472. Keachick - July 28, 2013

I suspect Orci and co have an idea or two but it is a matter of whether the studio will go for such an idea.

Perhaps it might be to do with the fact that audiences, according to some comments I have read here and there, have been more fickle than usual and studios are having to rethink what kind of movies will attract good audience numbers.

I know that war and violence bore me stupid most of the time and the idea of sitting through a movie about ugly helmeted Klingons doing battle with Kirk and the Enterprise has already turned on my snooze button. I would much rather have the Enterprise visit the Caitian world – perhaps one of Kirk cat-lady friend’s world is facing an environmental crisis and/or we see Dr Phlox’s home world and/or New Vulcan and/or Menosia (that, as yet, undiscovered place). Perhaps the crew may encounter some misunderstanding and hostility or have need to blow a rogue asteroid away with the torpedoes/phasers/whatsithingi weapons. Or some of the ship’s systems start failing – they are on emergency impulse power, life support systems are faulty – Scotty can’t find/fix the fault.

Star Trek Into Audacious Wonder…

1473. Ahmed - July 28, 2013

@MJ

“This is just ridiculous. The screenplay for STID was completed over 1.5 years ago, and the writing team has no fracking story ideas for nuTrek 3 yet?
Are you kidding me??? Really, Bob..really???
If that is true, then we need to new writing team ASAP.
This I find to be completely ridiculous!!! Not one idea???”

Agreed, this is becoming extremely ridiculous. These guys either don’t care enough or they are so sure that Paramount will wait for them as long as they want.

I think it is time for new writers as you said.

1474. Red Dead Ryan - July 28, 2013

#1470.

“This is just ridiculous. The screenplay for STID was completed over 1.5 years ago, and the writing team has no fracking story ideas for nuTrek 3 yet?

Are you kidding me??? Really, Bob..really???

If that is true, then we need to new writing team ASAP.

This I find to be completely ridiculous!!! Not one idea???”

Ye