Into Darkness Blu-ray bonus feature clip, production art & contest, and Honest Trailers take on STID | TrekMovie.com
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Into Darkness Blu-ray bonus feature clip, production art & contest, and Honest Trailers take on STID August 22, 2013

by Matt Wright , Filed under: DVD/Blu-ray,Star Trek Into Darkness,Viral Video/Mashup/Images , trackback

With the physical disc release of Star Trek Into Darkness only a few weeks away (September 10th in the US) and the digital download version available now, Paramount has sent out a clip of the “making of” feature included on the Blu-ray editions of the movie. Paramount has also shared exclusive production art from production designer Scott Chambliss with comingsoon.net and Yahoo! Movies. The art has a code you can enter to win a trip to the performance of the music from Into Darkness live in London. Also, the guys at Screen Junkies have released their Honest Trailers edit of the Into Darkness trailer.

Making of STID clip

Chambliss Production art

The product art images have a code that you can enter on the new Defeat Khan website (DefeatKhan.com) for a chance to win a trip to see Star Trek Into Darkness live orchestrated in London by Michael Giacchino. The site also uses some of the most advanced 3D technology to allow you to instantly create your own personalized Star Trek avatar with just an upload of your photo. You are then tasked to join the Starfleet Academy to train with a variety of simulations testing your IQ, Vision, Focus, Memory, and Speed as you move up the ranks to help defeat Khan. By connecting to Facebook, you can also compete with your friends to see who has the superior genetics.

stid_commingsoon_prodart

Click on the image above for more art and full size images at Comingsoon.net

stid_yahoo_prodart

Click on the image above for more art and full size images at Yahoo! Movies

 

Honest Trailers take on STID

Comments

1. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

Just posted the Honest Trailer of STID in another thread.

Can’t help but agree with it.

2. fansincesixytnine - August 22, 2013

WOW. Look at the size of the Vengeance in that image. Its Star-Destroyer sized!.

3. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

It is WRONG that I both liked STID a lot, but also pretty much agree with mos to the Honest Trailer review of it?

:-)

4. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

“most of the”

5. David Oakes - August 22, 2013

The amount of stuff in those “Honest Trailers” that are explained perfectly in the films is ridiculous. . .

And…”they both have running in corridors “???

For God’s sake….*facepalm*

Oh and renaming all the characters to words that rhyme with their name is the most pathetic, childish, primary school thing i’ve ever heard.

HOWEVER – The impression of Nimoy at the end was pretty damn good.

6. David Oakes - August 22, 2013

Kirk desecrates a God – No – he was deliberately leading the tribe away from their deaths.

Khan doesn’t Kill Spock ! – No he was surrendering in order to save his crew / get to Admiral Marcus. if he’d killed Spock – Kirk could have killed him there and then.

7. Doug Haffner - August 22, 2013

So has anybody figured out if he’s supposed to be Khan yet? I still think he might be Harry Mudd or Susanne Pleshette. In fact, I think Peter Weller may be Trelane or Admiral Cheney. I can’t wait for this to come out.

8. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@5 @6

Dude, no offense, but you need take this as it is intended — with a grain of salt and a sense of humor.

Lighten up!

9. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@7

LOL

Sounds like you have been talking to Keachick. ;-)

10. Mad Mann - August 22, 2013

Yep, “honest trailers” nailed it. I’d love to hear Lindelof, Orci, or Abrams response.

11. PEB - August 22, 2013

Okay honest trailers was funny, and I LOVED STID but….really as Trekkies, we dont need to speak too loudly about this. The whole prime universe franchise has so much recycling in it it’s not even funny. People who hate Into Darkness will take this and say “SEE SEE, I TOLD YOU!” when in reality it’s basically True about all of Star Trek that came after TOS. Sigh… fanboys who are in denial…

12. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@10.

You people just don’t get it. Honest Trailers does this for many good movies. It’s suppose to be funny.

13. PEB - August 22, 2013

Actually no, just finished watching the clip and the snide commentary was just too lame

14. MC - August 22, 2013

ID sure is getting a lot of hate in the past few weeks.

I recognize the flaws of ID but enjoyed it immensely. I’m puzzled by the venom towards it, particularly at Las Vegas 2012. I was at Grand Slam this year and there seemed to be plenty of love for the Abrams alternate universe there.

I’m sure those same fans didn’t boo Alice Eve or Karl Urban at their Las Vegas 2012 panels, though.

15. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@13 That’s interesting, because I could swore that I just you youself saying about in post @11 that:

“Okay honest trailers was funny.”

Wow,you must be setting some kind nerd vacillation speed record here?

16. captain_neill - August 22, 2013

I love the Honest Trailers and the one for Into Darkness is hilarious as is the one for Independence Day, Batman & Robin, Superman IV and The Avengers. Even the one for Skyfall is hilarious

I agree with the points it brings up for Into Darkness and it does it in a humourous way, which is the intention. I love the Avengers and Skyfall but I still laughed at those honest trailers.

17. K-7 - August 22, 2013

Hey PEB, I thought you said earlier that you thought it was funny???

18. captain_neill - August 22, 2013

I have Into Darkness pre ordered but to be honest I am more excited to get season 5 of TNG on blu ray.

19. Marja - August 22, 2013

Can I just say how very illogical it is not to have a catwalk or some other access to the crucial point of the Warp Core? It’s lucky it was Kirk climbing up in there …

I don’t think Scotty would have made it, based on his gasping during all that running on the Vengeance : )

20. Marja - August 22, 2013

And I love “Honest Trailers”

Their take on STiD was mostly right-on, and the contribution by HISHE was pure genius. The names at the end were worse than a peurile MAD satire … but the rest was quite funny for the most part. Of course there are points I disagree with, and they didn’t hit them all, but

ROFL

21. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@18. Well, in WOK, it was even more silly — just a sheet of transparent aluminum.

But that movie is beloved, so we dare not bring plot and technology issues with that movies — that is off limits — free pass!

22. Platitude - August 22, 2013

@3, I agree, I liked the movie a lot but still thought that Honest Trailer was pretty accurate. It was a fun movie, but a bit flawed.

23. Spock69 - August 22, 2013

On a slightly different topic, With all the whinging about piracy affecting sales of Blu rays and dvds what crackpot thought it would be a good idea to release new movies online weeks before the discs come out.

24. Picard, Jean-Luc - August 22, 2013

I weep for us Trekkies sometimes when something like an Honest Trailer is taken seriously… There’s your *face palm*

25. Smike - August 22, 2013

Oh dear, that honest trailer is soooooo right. And the problem is: I even defended Nemesis and Star Wars Ep. 1 against criticism like that! But this time I simply cannot help but agree with most points of criticism. If STID is an archetype the future of this Star Trek, it is boldly going nowhere…

Ripping off TWOK scene by scene and line by line is one thing I could handle, but the gimmicky nature of all that science and technology (transwarp beaming to Kronos, Khan’s superblood) that make anything obsolete…warp drive, starships, death itself…is so lame and so cheap it really hurts.

And that review doesn’t even account for
– dropping out of Warp close to the MOON but going down in EARTH’s atmosphere a couple of minutes later after having reached our solar system in about 30 seconds coming from the Neutral Zone,
– the “phone-call” to a club in Frisco from the Neutral Zone,
– the infamous blown-up Klingon moon,
– the stupid Klingon make-up changes (we’ve had these discussions for 30 years already, so why start another feud?),
– the pointless android stand-in character,
– the literally superfluous underwater starship cr*p (yeah, I accept she CAN go there, but why?),
– those long-range torpedos without any fuel tanks and
– that hilarious plot centering around Khan being shoehorned into Section 31.

And the only thing Simon Pegg has to say about people criticising this travesty is “F*ck off”…

Fans at that con were right: It is BY FAR the worst Trek movie in retrospect. Despite all their flaws, TFF, GEN, INS and NEM aren’t half as bad as this lazy, lukewarm fanfilm only blessed with insane production values. Script-wise it’s a total entire disaster, a declaration of creative bankrupcy beyond repair…

26. spock69 - August 22, 2013

#24. Smike
You liked it then

27. Marja - August 22, 2013

BTW Matt Wright, THANKS FOR POSTING THIS you made my day!

Spock 69 I know, right? Off to download [legitimately] and make screencaps! ; ) Hmmm … wonder if I can find a way to elide most of the extreme violence ….

The whole movie will probs be posted on YouTube &c. by some enterprising pirate in the next couple of days ….

28. spock69 - August 22, 2013

Marja –
Think you’ll find Enterprising dudes have already posted it on many sites already.
I don’t get why they released it early on itunes, the pirates must be partying on that boat

29. Vultan - August 22, 2013

Honest trailers does both good and bad, very bad, movies. Batman and Robin for instance. I don’t think STID was quite THAT bad, but I don’t think it was particularly good either. And the trailer points out some pretty big problems the movie has. Same goes for their take on Trek ’09.

Oh well, the honest trailers are a fine piece of satire either way.

30. JohnRambo - August 22, 2013

I bought the Itunes Version and it’s just amazing to see all the little details.
can’t wait for the 3D Blu-ray!

31. David Oakes - August 22, 2013

I agree that Simon Pegg just says F— Off to anyone who criticises him.
I used to love him in Spaced and Shaun & Fuzz but he’s turned out to be a total whore in real life. I wouldn’t be surprised if he begged JJ for a part in Episode 7.

32. Red Dead Ryan - August 22, 2013

PEB,

Are you a politician by any chance? :-)

#24.

“Fans at that con were right: It is BY FAR the worst Trek movie in retrospect. Despite all their flaws, TFF, GEN, INS and NEM aren’t half as bad as this lazy, lukewarm fanfilm only blessed with insane production values. Script-wise it’s a total entire disaster, a declaration of creative bankrupcy beyond repair…”

I thought the Honest Trailers clip was funny…..LOL….but your statement here is the funniest thing I have read all day! LOL!

Worse than “The Final Frontier”, “Generations”, “Insurrection” and “Nemesis”…….hee hee! HA HA!

You must have stood too close to the gong at the “Gong show” that was the poll at the convention! LOL!

33. Marja - August 22, 2013

30, David, the “whore” comment is a bit beyond the pale. I won’t try too much to excuse Pegg for saying the F word, maybe he should’ve said “sod off” instead …

Remember the great controversy over Bono [U-2] receiving a Grammy and saying in his acceptance speech that it was “f*cking brilliant” to receive it? The word “f*ck” is used a lot more liberally in Britain than it is here. It’s even losing its horror here, if you listen to/overhear young people in the US. I predict that in the next five years we’ll be hearing it in PG movies and in TV shows aimed at adults. A generational curse, if you will, somewhat like sh*t was for my generation.

He’s a total SF nerd so I could forgive his appearance in SWars 7, as long as he plays some alien under tonnes of makeup. He will have died and gone to heaven to be in both major SF franchises. More power to him I say. But I like the guy.

HONEST TRAILERS is doing what MAD Magazine always did – making brilliant satires, even though we disagree with certain elements, we can laugh like he11 : D

34. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@31.

PEB just called me 5 minutes ago and said he now thinks again that “it is funny.”………

……Wait, just got a text from PEB, and now he says “it’s not funny.”

Also, PEB says, “Ginger,”…..wait, now he is saying “Marry Anne”.

35. Red Dead Ryan - August 22, 2013

#33.

Geez, poor PEB is probably a very, very confused individual. :-)

36. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#32 Marja–There’s a big difference in usage between “f**king brilliant” and “f**k yourselves.” Pegg wasn’t using the casual, common variant as you’re suggesting. “F you” is a very clear, direct, hateful comment, NOT comparable to merely emphasizing a word with “f-ing.”

Pegg, like Orci, has contempt for those who won’t suck up whatever pap they put before us. Sad, really, he seemed like a nice guy, but saying “f**k you” to fans pretty much buries that impression.

We have Pegg and Orci showing contempt for fans, and we have Orci and Lindelof showing contempt for the core concepts of Trek (i.e., we’ll all learn to get along and go exploring for fun, etc.). We have Abrams & co who think that the neatest things to do with a STARSHIP are (a) use them as submarines and (b) watch them crash.

Is it any wonder why so many of us no longer feel that this new version of Trek is really Star Trek? Or at least, it’s no longer a version of Star Trek that we care to be a part of, and THAT is why we are so pissed at STID.

37. PEB - August 22, 2013

14 & 16 Yes I said, I thought it was funny, and then the more the video went on and the comentary went from being cleverly sarcastic to just snide I went ahead and said “actually no” in the next comment. Am I not allowed to do that or something?

Haha I mean, listen, I totally get it. And honestly, I get why some people don’t like alt-universe Trek and some do like it. I just feel like we’re destroying ourselves with some of the bickering and things like this or like Cawley’s video where TOS Enterprise sends JJ’s into oblivion (http://youtu.be/FO1nvmDjofo) I could laugh and have a better sense of humor if there wasn’t ACTUAL hate for this newer version. It’s kind of like, why call out JJ Trek for one thing when you can do the same for many many years of prime universe Trek? Why the name calling? Why the childish web posts? If we were more civil about the state of Trek, it would all be in good fun and it would all feel like it’s in good fun. But it just doesn’t feel that way. I guess that’s my issue with all of this.

38. PEB - August 22, 2013

MJ who could or would choose JUST Ginger or Mary Anne? I mean dude…really

39. Mike C. - August 22, 2013

I don’t expect the new movies to be like the old stuff. I just expect them to be entertaining. STID WAS. And they are better than the Star Wars prequels. Argue that. Dare ya.

40. Weerd1 - August 22, 2013

Look, I love STID, but that’s pretty damn funny.

41. LizardGirl - August 22, 2013

@Smike and PaulB

About Simon:

It’s not like we’re giving them much love either. If fans can dish it out then they should be able to take it. “Do unto others” and all that. They (the cast, crew, writers, director, etc.) really get A LOT of hate, scorn and hostility shot at them, Orci and JJ in particular. ESPECIALLY from the very people who should be supporting them. So I can sympathize.

42. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#41 LizardGirl, I disagree about it being a dish it/take it situation. Fans are paying customers, with every right to give feedback (positive AND negative) about what they receive. I haven’t seen a lot of people saying, “F— Pegg” or anything like that to the actors. (A lot of “F— Lindelof,” but that’s a different matter.) The ACTORS have not been the brunt of fan hatred–at least, none that I’ve seen.

The writers and Abrams have received a lot of much-deserved harsh criticism and far too much pissy vitriol, but the actors are almost universally liked, so Pegg hasn’t been dished what he just dished out.

For Pegg–who gets PAID by the fans for his work–to say “f**k you” to fans is VERY different than fans griping about the movie. ‘Thanks for paying for my lifestyle, now F**K you!’

I’ve been a Trekkie since the early 70s with TAS in first-run, and I adored ST09 beyond belief, but STID and the behavior of Pegg, Orci, and Lindelof has made it clear to me (and others) that Star Trek has become something that is no longer welcoming to a lot of us, whether we’re TOS fans, TNGers, or whatever. Maybe it’s still “real Star Trek” (whatever that is), but it’s no longer a Star Trek that some of us want to be around.

Classic Trek in ALL incarnations said, “Humans will outgrow this savage phase and become better, more enlightened people.” Lindelof openly scoffs at that idealism, and Orci’s conspiracy theories clearly show he doesn’t believe it either.

The new Trek is summed up in Pegg’s words and attitude: “F**k you, humans suck!”

Classic Trek: “The human adventure is just beginning.” New Trek: “F**k adventure, let’s start a fight club!”

43. PaulB - August 22, 2013

re:#42 — I didn’t mean to imply that Pegg actually said, “F**k you, humans suck!” I just meant that his “F you” and the “humans suck” attitude of the writers add up to that being the nuTrek attitude.

44. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

# 25. Smike

Well said.

45. JimJ - August 22, 2013

Smike: Try decaf!

Sorry to ay this, but Simon Pegg is right! It’s a wonder Star trek has lived as long as it has. I swear, the fans will drive it into the ground. Pathetic!

46. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

@ Paul~

“I’ve been a Trekkie since the early 70s with TAS in first-run, and I adored ST09 beyond belief, but STID and the behavior of Pegg, Orci, and Lindelof has made it clear to me (and others) that Star Trek has become something that is no longer welcoming to a lot of us, whether we’re TOS fans, TNGers, or whatever. Maybe it’s still “real Star Trek” (whatever that is), but it’s no longer a Star Trek that some of us want to be around.”

***********************

Yeaaayyy, brother! Exactly. We’re no longer the ‘desired demographic’ anymore, so we older fans get a “f**k you” and are shown the door. Here’s hoping the next movie crashes and burns if it employs the same lazy, uninspired writers….

47. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#46 – Sebastian, I was surprised–as a 43-year-old fan–to find myself loving ST09. It’s my third favorite Trek film EVER, and I don’t care about any of its flaws while watching it because I enjoy the ride so much.

But STID shows what you said: these writers are lazy and uninspired. OR maybe they really wanted to be original, but Abrams overrode them, or Paramount, or…

But Orci’s own comments about their writing OPENLY confirm the laziness, the “didn’t think of that” mindset of this bunch. That’s all okay, if only they actually believed in the basic premise of Star Trek.

Oh well. Maybe the third film will surprise me like ST09 did, but I really doubt that from this bunch. They only have about three tools in their belt, and they’ve used ‘em all–twice!

48. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

# 47

I enjoyed ST09 too! Very much. Had no idea it was a fluke.
I think the writers loved it as much as we did; so much so that every good thing about it was copied and used again in STID. They had a whole new rebooted universe and they cut and pasted a script from the best moments of both their own movie and Wrath of Khan.

Disappointment doesn’t begin to cover it. I just don’t like this movie at all. And judging by the pile of cash it made? I don’t think the writers will feel any pressing need to change the formula any time soon. As Deep Throat said to Woodward during the Watergate scandal, “Follow the money…”

I can almost guarantee you that the next movie will have a rehashed, popular villain (The Borg, Charlie X, Gary Mitchell, Harry Mudd, whatever) and some sort of revenge plot. And I’m sure they’ll ‘blow up stuff real good’ too (gotta keep the 14 year olds from squirming in their seats too much; they might get bored, heaven forbid…).

Yeah, this is REALLY what Gene Roddenberry wanted, I’m sure….

49. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@48. I do agree that STID wasn’t nearly as good at Trek 2009. But Trek 2009 was such a nearly perfect movie, that it was hard to top that.

I really like STIII-The Search for Spock. But I remember when it came out, right after WOK being so universally loved, that a lot of people bitch about it. Just like we are seeing now with STID.

I guarantee you that if STID had come out after Nemesis, it would be beloved right now.

50. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

Trek fans will bitch no matter what. I bought the film off iTunes and despite its problems, it’s still a very enjoyable Trek adventure. Far more watchable then 3/4ths of the TNG films.

51. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#49 MJ, if STID had come out right after Nemesis, it wouldn’t have had ST09 to rehash, which means that it might have felt more original. In that way, you’re probably right that it would’ve been beloved after Nemesis.

I think STID will sink in the opinion of most fans as time goes by, unless the third film is so amazing that it becomes just a part of whole instead of indicative of the only mode these writers know–MONSTER STARSHIP RALLIES and fistfights that would make Tyler Durden say “too much.”

I really like STIII, too. It’s not a brilliant film, but it was a pleasing episode with some great moments.

52. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

Trek 3 was an amazing film. The most underrated of the whole series.

53. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

# 51

@PaulB~

Well said.

And yes, enough with the monster starship rallies. At times. I felt like I was watching “Monday Night Rehab” from the 2005 comedy “Idiocracy” (actually, STID kind of felt like it takes place in that future)….

BTW, did anyone ever figure out how Admiral Marcus beamed his daughter through the Enterprise’s shields (when Kirk made a point of telling Sulu to ‘keep those shields up’) yet Khan had to wait for Kirk to LOWER those same shields to beam up his crew in their torpedo casings? That’s just one example (of many) of how the writers didn’t even follow their own rules on this stupid movie.

54. JimJ - August 22, 2013

While I was disappointed in the entire idea of using the character of Khan, I think you are all blowing this way out of proportion. I seriously think the writers were thrilled with the success of the last movie and felt a need to make this one more for the long time fans. The issue they ran into is that Star Trek appeals to it’s fans for a variety of reasons. One person’s like doesn’t matter to the next guy/gal because he/she liked something else, etc.

It’s a writers trap: do a tribute (or a Valentine, if you will) to/for the fans. It always gets them in trouble in the end. Frankly, this “Valentine” was a million times better than the one left for the fans of Enterprise. Now THAT is an example of what some of you whine STID is………lazy writing, disrespectful to the fans and the characters (kill of one of the most favorite characters for no reason except shock effect, etc.).

Here’s hoping that even though STID has made 68+ million MORE than than the last movie (and isn’t done yet overseas), that Orci & the rest of the writers and producers have learned a valuable lesson. It IS ok to do something original, thought provoking, and entertaining. The trick and creative challenge is…can you do it without blowing up things, killing lots of people (in your movie world), and following that same old formula used over and over again by almost every movie Hollywood churns out in today’s world.

STID IS my favorite Star Trek movie. This is from a fan who always thought the character Khan was WAYYY overrated. I do understand some people’s gripes about STID (there’s flaws in every single Star Trek movie)…but this “fan” venom being spewed is NOT what Star Trek was ever about. Oh, I know…..they made you do it with their horrible writing and blah, blah, blah……again, I say “PATHETIC”! I disliked what Braga * Berman did to end Enterprise, but I did not spew that kind of crap. I was devastated because I thought Star Trek was over (yeah, I know….to some of you, it’s “dead already”).

Also, I want to know exactly when and where Pegg told people to “F*** OFF” or whatever he supposedly said. I want to know where, when, what the context was, and what he was responding to, exactly. Please & thank you!

55. JimJ - August 22, 2013

#49 & #50: I totally agree!

56. Basement Blogger - August 22, 2013

@ 41

YOU GO LIZARD GIRL!!!

Amen. There’s not liking a film then there is hatred that angry posters can spew anonymously on the Internet.

Here are the facts. Star Trek Into Darkness is the highest grossing movie in the Star Trek film franchise. We can safely assume that a large majority of that audience were Trekkers whether they be hardcore or casual fans. Why? I’m sure everyone who saw the movie had seen Star Trek in one form or another. Using logic, that indicates that a large number of fans liked the movie. If they didn’t , they would not have shown up. Word of mouth would have killed the movie. Star Trek Into Darkness received critical praise. It scores 87 per cent on Rotten Tomatoes We have yet to count the Japan box office or the sale of the Blu-Rays.

By the way, good to hear from you. I hope everything is well with you.

57. Dave H. - August 22, 2013

@49 “I guarantee you that if STID had come out after Nemesis, it would be beloved right now.”

For sure!

58. dswynne - August 22, 2013

@#36: The problem isn’t that Simon Pegg would the respond the way he did to criticism; it’s how people like you sh*t all over his efforts to create an entertaining adaptation of a classic sci-fi series. YOU and people like you don’t have that right. You may dislike what was produced, but to say that what Pegg and company has done isn’t “real” Star Trek, simply because you dislike Paramount’s decision to reboot the franchise beyond its dying, niche fanbase is simply uncalled for. I have read comments, on these boards, from people who would rather have Star Trek be retired permanently, simply because Paramount thought that it would be better to use the iconic characters that made the franchise a household name. And these are the same people who thought that “Nemesis” and “Final Frontier” was better that “Into Darkness” in that convention poll, even as the actor Karl Urban was there to help promote the film as a fan of the franchise.

Sorry, but Pegg’s “f*ck off” comment was justified in this case, since most of the legitimate criticism of “Into Darkness” is being over-shadowed by a hate for the choices that Bad Robert had made BEFORE “Into Darkness” was made. I personally like “Into Darkness” as entertainment, but nowhere was it bad as “Nemesis” and “Final Frontier” (saw it three times, and will get the DVD when it comes out).

59. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

# 54 @ JimJ

“Also, I want to know exactly when and where Pegg told people to “F*** OFF” or whatever he supposedly said. I want to know where, when, what the context was, and what he was responding to, exactly. Please & thank you!”

*************************************

Here it is: http://movies.yahoo.com/news/simon-pegg-f-think-star-trek-darkness-sucks-155031897.html

60. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#54 – JimJ: After TMP, TWOK was a “Valentine” to fans. After Enterprise & Nemesis made Trek go away, ST09 was a Valentine to fans.

STID is a rehash of those better-made Valentines. It’s like photocopying last year’s handmade V-Day card and pasting in part of a Hallmark card, then saying, “See, it’s new and shows how much we love you!” Nope…it’s lazy and unoriginal.

But we agree that the end of Enterprise was a travesty, a pile of manure flung in the fans’ faces. It wasn’t an Enterprise episode, it was a TNG episode, and a crummy one at that!

61. JimJ - August 22, 2013

Sebastian: thank you for that. It confirms what I thought-Simon Pegg is right, once again!

PaulB-I believe I told everyone that even though I love the film, I understand others complaints and hope they do something new and original in the next one. That’s why I stated that what they did was fall into a writer’s trap.

What i take exception to is the same thing Simon Pegg does….this venom and contempt towards them and the movie is PATHETIC!

62. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#58 “You may dislike what was produced, but to say that what Pegg and company has done isn’t “real” Star Trek…”

I did NOT say that! I said, very specifically, that it may well be “real Star Trek” but it’s no longer a Star Trek I enjoy. I stopped reading your rant right there, because it showed that you didn’t really read what I’d written.

If you aren’t going to read comments before commenting, shut up. I was very careful to be clear in what I wrote, and I didn’t sh*t on anyone or anything.

If you can’t read with comprehension, don’t respond.

63. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

# 60.

@ PaulB

“STID is a rehash of those better-made Valentines. It’s like photocopying last year’s handmade V-Day card and pasting in part of a Hallmark card, then saying, “See, it’s new and shows how much we love you!” Nope…it’s lazy and unoriginal.”

************************

Exactly!

64. Matt Wright - August 22, 2013

@ 60 – Well stated.

65. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#61 — Let’s look at the venom and contempt:

Fans: “This movie sucks because it rehashes the other films. Hacks!”

Pegg: “F**K you!”

Sorry, but that’s not even comparable. The man who made money off the fans is now telling them to “f**k off.” THAT is pathetic.

66. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

JimJ~

“What i take exception to is the same thing Simon Pegg does….this venom and contempt towards them and the movie is PATHETIC!”

**********************

So… fans have no right to complain (even though we’re the paying audience) and doing so makes us ‘pathetic’, and yet the stars of the movie can tell us fans to f**k off, but that’s OK?

Wow… guess they really don’t want our money then.

I can’t imagine the late Jimmy Doohan or even Leonard Nimoy telling their respective fans to ‘f**k off’ just because they criticized Star Trek V. Hell, it pushed them to just make a better one next one (ala ST VI).

But then again, those are gentlemen. Not the ‘le enfants terribles’ we see at Bad Robot (now I finally see why the robot is bad…).

67. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

Regarding Carol being beamed off the ship…anybody who paid attention to the dialogue would have noticed that Kirk was told Enterprises shields had dropped due to getting pounded by the Vengeance. She tried to save the crew, but Marcus just beamed her out…then went back to trying to kill Khan and the Enterprise.

Paying attention helps

As for Peggs comments…good for him. About time someone stuck to the obnoxious ass fans like those who voted STID the worse. Idiots and never pleased cry babies.

68. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#67 Back off the insults, Robman007. I could just as easily call YOU an idiot and an easily-pleased bottom feeder, with just as much accuracy as you. But NOBODY on this thread deserves to be called idiots or other names.

You’re showing more venom than most of the anti-STID fans. Also, your venom is toward other fans: the haters are hating the MOVIE.

You are being far worse.

69. LizardGirl - August 22, 2013

@BB Hey! Thanks! ^_^

STID is more successful than what we are aware of (on this site). Sadly, after the North America premiere, coverage on the movie’s success trickled down. I was very surprised that trekmovie didn’t cover the premiere in Japan that happened last week! The movie isn’t perfect of course. But besides the Dark Knight, what movie is perfect? There’s nothing wrong with criticism. But when there isn’t a balance between the negative and the positive. then it stops being constructive and starts becoming something else.

My own personal criticism was the 1.) lack of interaction with the fans…what ever happened to that app thing they did? 2.) late (compared to other, similar movies) advertising/ marketing.

Despite this, I personally think the movie is a success.

70. Sebastian S. - August 22, 2013

Robman007~

Gee Rob, maybe I just fell asleep during that part…

Do you also know why Khan assumed Kirk would’ve fired ALL 72 torpedoes at Kronos for him to retrieve (and how could he have even assumed Kirk would’ve used them at all, let alone all 72)?

And exactly HOW did Khan have access to the ‘bargaining chips’ (his people) that were Starfleet’s only leverage to use against him? Enough to load each and every one of them into torpedo casings?!? Weren’t they S31’s hostages, really?

Or how Kirk has given a whole new (and false) religion to an alien culture (imagine the future holy wars over that one!) and gets little more a slap on the wrist (a demotion)? This is the PRIME directive, right? Not just a handy recommendation…

Perhaps you could also explain how ‘cold fusion’ is supposed to stop all volcanic activity (you DO realize that cold fusion’s not really cold, right?). That one is just too dumb for words. Seriously…

71. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

Spare me the dramatics. I was referring to the always crying fan boys that showed up to that convention and voted STID the worse, Galaxy Quest one of the best and Janeway the best Captain. Idiots is accurate. STID had problems, but it was better then 3/4 of the TNG efforts and much more watchable then most episodes of Voyager and Enterprise.

Besides, I’ve seen some off the way, overly dramatic comments from some on here who act like JJ Abrams took a massive sh!t in their cereal. Probably the same fans who hated the TOS films when they aired, hated TNG, hated DS9, stopped watching Enterprise and failed to buy even one ticket to Nemesis, yet now want to go back to those days and, surprise surprise, hate these films…

When taken in context, his comment is accurate and I can understand his frustration, especially dealing with militant Trek fans.

72. dswynne - August 22, 2013

@#62: Oh, I read what you wrote. But if you can’t understand why Pegg made his comment, then you missed the point entirely. Again, the dislike for “Into Darkness” has little to do with the film itself, but rather the decisions that Bad Robot made when the franchise was rebooted. I’m simply taking the side of the actors who spent sixty days of their time to give a performance that they were told to give and how. And I’ve read the comments how Pegg failed to deliver in his portrayal of an iconic character like Scotty. And they were quite vicious. That’s where I’m coming from, and that is why I feel that you are being disingenuous when you write that you do not understand why Pegg would make the comment he made. Quite frankly, no one should have their work “sh*t upon”, and not be expected to respond in kind.

And just to be clear, while “Into Darkness” was entertaining, I felt that the film’s marketing and over-reliance on “references” as a way to pad plot did the most harm to the film’s box office receipts.

73. PaulB - August 22, 2013

#71 Again, you claim something that I NEVER said. I did not say I “do not understand why Pegg would make the comment he made.” Your inability/unwillingness to reply to what is actually written makes communicating with you pointless.

74. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

@70

1. The 72 torpedoes was dumb. Again, one of the problems with the film.
2. Because he’s Khan. He found a way. Smart cookie.
3. Because he’s Kirk and nobody was made away of the new religion. Besides, Prime Kirk made minced meat of the Prime Directive a lot..ala the Apple, Return of the Archons, etc.
4. Yeah, Cold Fusion was inaccurate, but it was also fictional, so whatever.

Most problems stem from a group who have not spent 20+ years making up mumbo jumbo and making it sound real. Still just fictional

75. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

Again, Paul, my initial comment was not directed at you. Quit being overly sensitive and read for a change. Tell me where on comment 67 I specifically replied to you or directed my comment to you.

I can solve that for ya quick. I didnt. Sorry, but get over it.

76. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

@72…spot on.

77. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

And besides,..f**k the PRIME Directive. Shatner Captain Kirk cared little for it and same with Pine Captain Kirk. That whole mission at the start of the film was a violation of the Prime Directive. If Kirk followed the rules, then a whole group of innocents would have died. He made the right choice…and was within character in rescuing Spock.

78. Red Dead Ryan - August 22, 2013

So much bitching on this thread.

PaulB., Sebastian S., etc.

We get it. You can’t stand the new movies. You went into STID already hating it, that much is obvious. While I think that Simon Pegg went a bit too far with his “f#ck off!”, it is completely understandable because of zealots like yourselves. Geez. You guys need to get over yourselves.

As for STID itself, if it came out right after “The Final Frontier”, most of these whiners would be calling it better than TWOK, especially if Nick Meyer or Leonard Nimoy had directed it instead of J.J Abrams and without Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman. It would be the exact movie, but you’d get a different reaction from these “fans” if it had been Meyer or Nimoy directing it. I guarantee it!

And finally, this thread should be proof once and for all that neither Paramount, CBS, or the writers should EVER listen or pander to, the fans.

79. Robman007 - August 22, 2013

Since my comments are being deleted, ill start again…

@72…show me where my comment was directed at you.

@73..amen.

80. Li'l Shat - August 22, 2013

I enjoyed Star Trek Into Darkness, and at the same time felt let down by it.

One of the reasons I feel let down is that it rips off The Wrath of Khan without conveying any of the emotional depth of the original.

What I mean is, when Spock dies in The Wrath of Khan we really feel it, and it’s because the character and his relationship to the other main characters has already been very well established. I think we also really feel it because there was no indication at the time that Spock would be back. As far as we knew, he was really dead and gone as a character. That, combined with the real sense of loss we felt due to growing familiar with him and his relationship with Kirk, McCoy and the others, made for quite an emotional hit. To this day I still get tears in my eyes when I watch the Spock death and funeral scenes in The Wrath of Khan.

In Star Trek Into Darkness, what we have are essentially kids being forced into these same dynamics without any of the emotional history together, and hence without any of the emotional weight. Further undermining the impact, we have the certain knowledge that Captain Kirk will somehow be revived due to the fact that he’s signed on for a sequel, coupled with the ridiculous magical super human blood reviving a dead tribble device.

My main issue with Star Trek Into Darkness is that it attempts to lay claim to the same emotional significance of The Wrath of Khan, but the elements to establish that weight just aren’t there yet. It’s a story that should probably never have been retold, but most certainly should not have so early in these new films. But you know, they have to do a trilogy and all, and this has to be the Dark one.

John Harrison should have been John Harrison–a rogue Section 31 operative causing mischief, who had to be hunted down and brought to justice. That’s a good enough story in and of itself. But instead we have this JJ Abrams Mystery Team, who have to keep the audience guessing even if it means ruining their movies.

81. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@65

“Fans: “This movie sucks because it rehashes the other films. Hacks!”

“Pegg: “F**K you!”

Paul B, you are wrong. This is completely comparable.

82. Li'l Shat - August 22, 2013

Something I’m confused about regarding this new timeline. They’re off on their five year mission now, officially–yet haven’t they already done a lot of that in the comics prior to STID?

Also, how do they fit the five year mission into the next movie? If it’s to be yet another Event Villain Revenge film, will the Enterprise be called back, and then go back to their five year mission afterward?

Mainly though, I’m confused as to how they’ve already visited so many worlds from the original five year mission in the comics, yet are now just embarking on that same mission. Were the comic book stories, post Trek ’09 but pre-STID, little mini missions?

83. K-7 - August 22, 2013

I agree with Robman, dswynne and MJ.

I find it refreshing that Pegg can give it back to the “nuTrek hater fans” just as good as he gets it from them.

And the hypocrisy and “fake shock” here by PaulB and others is just fracking hilarious.

Really guys? Really? LOL

84. Matt Wright - August 22, 2013

Robman007 – your posts aren’t deleted. I dunno how many times I have explain that around here. They’re in moderation. From your POV you seem to have submitted the comment, but it then gets taken out of the comments while awaiting moderation. They’ve all been approved now.

85. Disinvited - August 22, 2013

I think the sad thing is that people are intimating vitriol being slung at a version of Trek is somehow unique to STID and requires the extreme measure of not maintaining a class act by those involved in its making to correct it.

This simply is not true. Ever since it was decided to cancel Phase II and go movie there have been extremely vocal fan factions slinging vitriol about the inadequacies of this or that: “STAR TREK is a TV show – Not a movie!”, “If Spock dies, you die.”, etc.

It’s probably something that should be worn as a badge of honor (while notifying the proper authorities) as I don’t think a thing could ever be a proper Trek if it didn’t evoke strong passionate responses across the spectrum.

What I find surprising is that while Roddenberry was alive, there was always a call to be mindful of the marvelous wonderful thing fans had done in getting Trek resurrected, over and over again, and to maintain a class act while addressing fandom in public forums no matter how much some would tempt.

STAR TREK used to be used as a call to do and be better; a mirror as to what our future selves might achieve. I just find it sad to have a STAR TREK used by those creating it, instead, to justify mirroring the least classy side of human behavior in dealing with fan malcontent.

86. MJ (The Original). - August 22, 2013

@85. Hmm. I think it is cathartic and healthy for people to get this off their chests. And tt’s frankly refreshing to me to see Pegg not pretend that this stuff isn’t bothering him.

No, I don’t agree with the let’s pretend we are all happy and bottle things up POV.

IDIC means people should be free to express their opinions. The real problem here is that a lot of people don’t want to hear peoples opinions, and overreact when what they hear offends their perhaps antiquated sensibilities.

87. DJ Neelix - August 23, 2013

This movie is just rotten all the way to its core. It’s painful to even think about it. I said all I wanted to say in this review: http://www.vt.se/kultur/film/default.aspx?articleid=6837481

Unfortunately it’s in Swedish, so none of you will understand unless you use translation.

88. Smike - August 23, 2013

I wouldn’t go so far to say it’s “no Star Trek” any more or that it doesn’t feel like “Star Trek”… On the contrary: the new movies feel a lot like Star Trek and while they are action-oriented and fast-paced, the characters, the score, the sound-editing etc. works perfectly fine…

But the STORIES and plot devices are really sh*te… I can live with even more action in Trek as long as the story and all plot elements make sense, as long as there is some cohesion and coherence to action, time and place…

I loved the idea of the new timeline, I love the new cast, including S. Pegg, I love the uniforms, Giacchinos tunes, and many many other things in this new version of Trek. Yeah, it’s not our fathers’ Star Trek but that’s basically fine with me. Make it more Star Wars than any Star Wars flick, add a little BSG grit and next time, be my guest, make Carol M. skip her undies altogether… I don’t care… as long as the story makes any sense at all…

If you spend 190 million on a motion picture you should hire writers that can cook up a plot that doesn’t rely on lame plot devices like Transwarp Beaming, crazy superblood and going down the Earth’s atmosphere if you are actually pretty close to the moon… and don’t hide your starship under water just to make it reappear as eye-candy to the masses! Don’t change Klingon make-up for absolutely no puprose because the new timeline simply doesn’t cover for that! And if you want to add an android to the Enterprise crew, make him matter… don’t just let him utter three lines and p*ss off fans by his mere presence…

Is that so difficult to understand that Pegg has to insult fans on that?

89. Sybok's Secret Brother - August 23, 2013

I saw it 3 times to be sure. Now I’m sad… Karl Urban is right – something new please.
Oh – One MAJOR exception… The Klingons fricken’ ROCKED!!

90. Disinvited - August 23, 2013

#86. MJ (The Original). – August 22, 2013

If by that, you hear the theme song to ALL IN THE FAMILY being sung while reading my words, I understand. And I am all for freedom of speech.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/simon-pegg-the-worlds-end_n_3787056.html

As for catharsis, he didn’t fire it off the moment the reporter asked him about it. The F bomb didn’t come out until the reporter steered him into it by calling upon him to liken it to music fans’ regards of indie bands. In that context, it seems more of a performance piece than the cathartic release that you advocate.

91. Disinvited - August 23, 2013

#90. Disinvited – August 23, 2013

Need sleep.

“The F bomb didn’t come out until the reporter steered him into it by calling upon him to liken it to music fans’ regards of indie bands.” should be “The F bomb didn’t come out until the reporter steered him into it leading him to liken it to music fans’ regards of indie bands and the VS. album.”

92. Barney - August 23, 2013

80. Li’l Shat – August 22, 2013
I enjoyed Star Trek Into Darkness, and at the same time felt let down by it.

One of the reasons I feel let down is that it rips off The Wrath of Khan without conveying any of the emotional depth of the original.

What I mean is, when Spock dies in The Wrath of Khan we really feel it, and it’s because the character and his relationship to the other main characters has already been very well established. I think we also really feel it because there was no indication at the time that Spock would be back. As far as we knew, he was really dead and gone as a character. That, combined with the real sense of loss we felt due to growing familiar with him and his relationship with Kirk, McCoy and the others, made for quite an emotional hit. To this day I still get tears in my eyes when I watch the Spock death and funeral scenes in The Wrath of Khan.

In Star Trek Into Darkness, what we have are essentially kids being forced into these same dynamics without any of the emotional history together, and hence without any of the emotional weight. Further undermining the impact, we have the certain knowledge that Captain Kirk will somehow be revived due to the fact that he’s signed on for a sequel, coupled with the ridiculous magical super human blood reviving a dead tribble device.

My main issue with Star Trek Into Darkness is that it attempts to lay claim to the same emotional significance of The Wrath of Khan, but the elements to establish that weight just aren’t there yet. It’s a story that should probably never have been retold, but most certainly should not have so early in these new films. But you know, they have to do a trilogy and all, and this has to be the Dark one.

John Harrison should have been John Harrison–a rogue Section 31 operative causing mischief, who had to be hunted down and brought to justice. That’s a good enough story in and of itself. But instead we have this JJ Abrams Mystery Team, who have to keep the audience guessing even if it means ruining their movies.
——————————-

JACKPOT.

You even forgot Spock crying. The same Spock who did not even shed a tear when his planet and his beloved mother got blown up and all of a sudden he is crying for a man that he could not even admit was his friend and a man who he almost killed like 6 months ago.

They went overboard with trying to compete with the emotional story of WOK and they failed miserably.

Watching how it should have ended, I had no idea Quinto screaming Khan was that awful but now that it has been placed next to Shatner scramming Khan I am amazed on how bad and parodic Quinto sounds

I cant believe they let Quinto, who is a good actor act out something that BAD.

I sure hope the Emmy voters did not see his Khan scream since I am desperate for him to win an Emmy in September.

Linderof is the real hack. I don’t think Orci was even on board with any of the rehashes and rip offs.

93. Danpaine - August 23, 2013

That trailer had me laughing out loud. All SO true. Classic.

94. PaulB - August 23, 2013

#78 Red Dead Ryan wrote: “PaulB., Sebastian S., etc. We get it. You can’t stand the new movies. You went into STID already hating it, that much is obvious…”

Well, what’s obvious is that YOU don’t have a frakkin’ clue what I have been writing. I’ve been very frakkin’ clear that I LOVED ST09, so I went to STID with hopes that were dashed by the midpoint of the movie.

Just because you and some others here will suck up anything that has “Star Trek” plastered on it doesn’t mean that those of us with critical faculties and the willingness to use them are WRONG for complaining.

Don’t dare tell us what our thoughts were going into STID. Get off your high horse and stop attacking EVERY FRAKKIN’ PERSON who ever disagrees with you.

Since you, RDR, are a constant a-hole to almost everyone who complains, and since you ignore what people actually write so you can spew your anti-fan venom, I’m going to ignore everything you post from now on.

Feel free to reply or not. Don’t care. You’re a pointless waste of space, and you’re been domineering around these forums for too long.

95. Jonboc - August 23, 2013

#14 “ID sure is getting a lot of hate in the past few weeks.”

just the usual squeaky wheels…the majority, who’s bucks have made Trek Into Darkness the most successful Trek film…EVER…still love it and can’t wait for more. The non-love, from a handful of fanboys, still longing for Bermanized Snore Trek ( who weren’t even showing up to support Nemesis or Enterprise) is, ultimately, in the whole scheme of things, irrelevant…just noisy.

96. JimJ - August 23, 2013

Speaking of people not being able to read entire posts and flinging more venom towards something……my comments and ending comment of “pathetic” refer to this “attitude” being flung around by “Star Trek fans” and their condescending attitude of how much better it would have been under Gene Roddenberry’s time. TOTAL BS: Roddenberry was around and voiced displeasure over several revered TOS Star Trek movies.

Did anyone listen to Gene? Nope. Many now revere them as much as the natives revere the USS Enterprise. Thank God the original Captain Kirk never ever showed off his USS Enterprise to people on a planet and never violated the prime directive. He was older and smarter than this new hack (yes, for those that can’t read sarcasm, I am tying with dripping sarcasm. James T. Kirk, my lifelong hero, has always been like that. It’s part of why I admire him! Thank God the new writers held onto that plus the fact that his ship means everything to him.

Matt Wright: I’m vey sad you feel the way you do. I have respected you and your posts/work on this site. I feel badly for you that you feel as you do. I love Star Trek and feel sad when others are disappointed, until they fling venom. I hope your dislike doesn’t include the venom?

97. DJ Neelix - August 23, 2013

Reading all the hateful comments on this site reminds me why I, since a year back or so, left TrekMovie for Trekcore as my usual source of Trek news.

People may disagree from time to time even there, but I am yet to see the venom that is displayed here. There people have more respect for each other, and carry a love for all Trek, in one way or the other.

Although it comes from both sides, I see the hate coming mostly from the TOS purists as well as the worshippers of nuTrek (which are often, but not exclusively, the same people who hates the TNG era, and who thinks that Berman deserves to be put on a cross for his sins).

98. Elias Javalis - August 23, 2013

Warp core room was a real piece of art. Laser installation i think.

99. Bakerman - August 23, 2013

I wholeheartedly agree with #47 and #60.

STID was made of recycled ideas from previous trek with minor twists added and with some of those twists making very little sense.

P.S. I had the chance to watch the Khan vs. Spock fight scene from the end and that moment when Spock turns into Steven Seagal and breaks Khan’s arm over his shoulder – I will be 100% honest here – I found that moment disgusting. That is the word and the feeling that came into my mind at that scene.

If that is what Abrams, Kurtzman and Orci think Star Trek is – Spock breaking an arm in the most violent manner possible then I wish they would just pack up and leave.

Nothing wrong with an action based sci-fi movie. I love those. BUT, that’s not Star Trek so don’t call it Star Trek.

I am very surprised by the writers being able to write the scene where Khan and Kirk get into a logic vs logic exchange (when they’re both talking via viewscreen from their respective ships) which is perfect Spock and then what seems moments later they throw good writing out of the spacedock and have Spock turn into generic action hero number 15 with bone braking abilities.

Yes, I understand that this Spock is willing to give in to his human emotions much more than Prime Spock ever did and I can accept that, but his rage against Khan is misdirected (as Marcus was the true villain), his complete and utter rage is out of nowhere and pointless, out of character and completely idiotic.

So, Nero blows up Vulcan and kills his mother – that doesn’t make him go berserk,

Khan gets cheated by Marcus and thus turned against the Federation and thus fires on the Enterprise with Kirk being all heroic and sacrificing himself for his crew – willingly! – that makes him go all Hulk – despite his friendship with Kirk being all of what – 2 days old? (joking about the 2 days).

In fact, one can argue that melding with Pike when Pike died is actually what set him on the path to vengeance and thus his anger towards Khan is fueled 80% by Khan killing Pike, 15% by Khan firing on the ship which carries his girlfriend (Uhura), 3% by Khan almost destroying the Enterprise and maybe 2% by Kirk dying. That’s how it felt in the damn movie.

WOK’s death scene worked because Kirk+Spock had decades to build a friendship even a brotherly connection. in STID that scene of Kirk dying and Spock yelling Khan and getting mad – that was done PURELY for marketing. Because, if that is what is deemed to be “quality drama” by Abrams and team – then they need to go back to school.

How could they do ST09 so well and then simply get so lazy as to just copy paste their way through writing the script for STID is confusing to me.

When Berman and Braga got lazy with Nemesis and Enterprise they were coming off of decades of making hundreds of hours of Trek – their lack of ideas can be excused by creative fatigue.

Abrams and crew have not even done 2 hours of Trek and already they’re back at Nemesis levels of “we’re out of ideas – quick rehash Star Trek’s favorite moments and throw money at the SFX people”.

In my previous posts on trekmovie I tried to be more “diplomatic” in posting my opinions because I didn’t want to be taken as just another angry fan in case Orci or anyone else read my posts, but seeing that scene again with Khan’s arm getting broken by Spock in that manner – that just made me disgusted with the STID interpretation of Star Trek.

Yes, despite being fully aware of multiple flaws of Final Frontier, Insurrection and Nemesis – I still consider STID to be the worst Trek movie out of all of them.

Sure, Nemesis tried to do a “Khan-like” story too, but at least they tried to package it differently instead of simply rehashing it as STID did.

And, yes – fully aware of the differences in story between Space Seed, Wrath of Khan and STID – they are there in story, but not in theme.

And come on, you get to put Peter Weller in a Trek movie and all you can do is give him the same role (thematically) that he played on ENT? Even worse, all you have him do is essentially to sit in a chair and spit out plot. Talk about being lazy…

100. Bakerman - August 23, 2013

And again, for clarity:
I liked Star Trek 09 A LOT. Saw it twice in cinemas. It has its flaws, but it is a damn fine movie and a damn fine “young TOS” movie and I considered it a great first step in Trek’s new iteration.
Favorite trek movie is Undiscovered Country.
Favorite trek show is DS9.
Least favorite is Voyager.
I’ve seen almost every single Trek episode, I’ve seen ALL the movies, each more than once and I’ve read numerous of the Trek books.

I love some of the other things Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman have done.

I went into STID with high hopes (despite being disappointed that they were re-doing Khan) and ended up almost leaving the theater midway through the movie.

101. Curious Cadet - August 23, 2013

@72. dswynne,
“Quite frankly, no one should have their work “sh*t upon”, and not be expected to respond in kind.”

I’m not saying its right, but the phrase “the customer is always right” comes to mind. And that doesn’t mean the customer is actually right.

Can you imagine Elizabeth Taylor firing back at her fans in kind after Cleopatra failed so miserably? Or politicians to their constituents?

It’s a different era for sure, but fans still pay the bills. And yeah, just as a superior officer, or the boss at the office criticizes a subordinates work, often rudely or unjustly — well they are paying the bills, and short of walking off the job the only choice is to grin and bear it.

Pegg benifits from a cronie-istic environment in which Abrams almost single-handedly keeps him employed in blockbuster features. But Pegg wouldn’t be the first celebrity to become so full of himself and his importance in the universe that he became unemployable.

Again Pegg is absolutely entitled to dish it out as hard as he takes it, but it simply may not be the wisest career move.

102. Spock's Bangs - August 23, 2013

#99. “It’s a different era for sure, but fans still pay the bills. ”

And they still do. Nutrek will continue to prosper with or without the small faction of old fans who don’t like it, there just aren’t enough haters to make a difference. This small army of detractors are very loud, but in the end are nothing more than an army of Captain Dunsels…they are stuck in the past and suffer from some wild delusion that nuTrek is a dud and needs them to survive. When, in reality, at the end of the day, they are nothing more than Dunsels…parts that serve no useful purpose. Yes, haters, Trek is living long…and it IS prospering. Without you.

103. Mad Mann - August 23, 2013

So, on boborci’s Twitter feed last night, he stated some things that showed how little he understands science. He feels that since a starship can go warp speed, it should be able to withstand the pressures of being submerged deep in water. Really? Traveling at warp or underwater are two totally different things! A ship that can bend spacetime to allow FTL travel does NOT mean it can withstand strong pressures easily.

And his answer to a fan’s question about why the alt timeline can’t be reset was his same answer as always: “Because of quantum mechanics.” Does he even know what quantum mechanics is? It really does not have to do with time travel and alternate realities like he thinks. It mostly has to do with the study of physics of really small things, like electron and photon-sized, not the many-worlds interpretation, which has to do with measurement. His response “cuz of QM” is like answering a person’s question: “Why can’t we fly?” with the answer: “Cuz of physics.”

But, to his continuous credit which I appreciate, I’m glad that he rountinely responds to fan questions. OK, rant over.

104. Tony Todd's Tears - August 23, 2013

My favorite detail was how there were no dilithium crystals in the dilithium crystal chamber. That, and if you climbed inside you would not die of radiation poisoning… You would be incinerated.

My dishonor as a Klingon is now complete

105. El Chup - August 23, 2013

@48 says it best for me. Exactly how I feel. ST 09 presented a new chance for fresh storytelling. Boldly going where no man have gone before. Telling a story about the human condition. Instead we git a tacky patchwork of clichés and rehashes. I always said that Khan would be a dealbreaker for me. I went in with hope anyway. I was even more let down as I left.

What is apparent about these movies is that they suffer from lazy writing, In the other incarnations of Trek there was always attention to detail in such things as how science might work in space, how the transporters work and so on. Clearly the current people in charge don’t care about that stuff as long as the non-Trek fan audience has a big budget actioner to lap up.

As is correctly pointed out this made a ton of money. What will follow will be more of the same as it’s the easy way to make a buck. But this Trek will be a forgotten anomaly in 15-20 years with the franchise either dead or back to its roots.

I fear the more intelligent aspects of Trek that set it apart from other franchises have now gone to their graves. Behold the era of Transformers Trek.

106. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

Reading Pegg comment, I can only think of one response ,

GO F$$K YOURSELF, MISTER.

The fans pay for your bloody work, a$$hole. We are entitled to show our dislike if the bloody product was stupid & dumb like your movie.

What a jacka$$

107. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

@99. Curious Cadet

“I’m not saying its right, but the phrase “the customer is always right” comes to mind. And that doesn’t mean the customer is actually right.

Can you imagine Elizabeth Taylor firing back at her fans in kind after Cleopatra failed so miserably? Or politicians to their constituents?

It’s a different era for sure, but fans still pay the bills. And yeah, just as a superior officer, or the boss at the office criticizes a subordinates work, often rudely or unjustly — well they are paying the bills, and short of walking off the job the only choice is to grin and bear it.”

Well said

108. Disinvited - August 23, 2013

#99. Curious Cadet – August 23, 2013

Indeed, and regardless of the merits for the arguments for declaring that something stinks, we should be mindful that in any Hollywood endeavor the majority putting their hard work into getting it realized are NOT doing it with the goal of making it the worst possible.

Maybe it’s nostalgia (I’m open to the notion.), but I have a hard time imagining that any sort of save STAR TREK campaign would have been successfully launched (and that we’d be here typing about Trek now) had James Doohan dropped the F bomb after some mulling it over in a LIFE interview where he was informed a LASFAS panel helmed by fan Harlan Ellison had fans attending determine by acclamation that the highest rated episode to date, SPACE SEED, which had just aired was the worst Trek episode ever.

I used Harlan in that hypothetical because he went on to be known as the writer of the best original series’ script ever and as such, lowered the bar for liberally dispensing colorful metaphors such that I now believe a Trek writer such as Bob Orci should never be denied the right to fire one off in deference to said nostalgia,

I suppose, since Pegg is a writer that my inner conflict could be resolved by Paramount having Pegg join the writing team which would be consistent with my personal feeling that the next movie should be light in tone.

109. star trackie - August 23, 2013

#78 “And finally, this thread should be proof once and for all that neither Paramount, CBS, or the writers should EVER listen or pander to, the fans.”

Amen to that! Way too fragmented, but not surprising. TOS and the Next Gen are WAY different….with WAY different ideals as to what STar Trek is. For me, it’s pretty cut and dry, Star Trek IS Star Trek..1966. Action/adventure. NBC. Kirk. Spock. End of story. lol

And the source material for the new movies is…yep, you guessed it! Star Trek. 1966. Action/adventure NBC . Kirk. Spock. I couldn’t care less if the Next Gennies or Voyager fans or anyone else from the church of Roddenberry work themselves all up into a knot when the new movies don’t seem like “their” Star Trek. It looks and feels just like mine. :) Another serving please!

110. El Chup - August 23, 2013

@100 Jesus, you people just cannot grasp the notion that someone may not like something about this Trek. It’s not always about being stuck in the past. We all have different reasons for coming to the franchise.

As someone who came to the show before TNG, during the TOS movie era, I very much was attracted by the human condition storytelling. It’s one of the reasons that my most enjoyed eras of Trek as TOS, TNG and DS9 because these were the shows and movies that were the most clever and stuck to the basic ideal of what ST for me did best. I am not a science fiction fan, nor a genre fan. I can take or leave explosions, cool ships and so on. I am also a movie fan, and I tend to prefer well written stories over mindless action.

So, you will appreciate that I may not look for the same thing as you when I see something with the Trek label on. That doesn’t mean I am old or outdated and cannot adapt. It means I am intelligent enough to have an idea of what I think is a good film and isn’t, and what represents the kind of Star Trek I personally enjoy.

For the most part I liked the first JJ effort, with one or two niggles. But this one just doesn’t cut the mustard. I’m, more than happy to have Trek completely reinvented, as long as at it’s core it maintains what Star Trek is. For me STiD does not do that in droves. The core is gone, replace by superficial imitations of elements from the past, with a load of CGI chucked in to amuse the MTV generation. It’s that’s your idea of what Star Trek is then good for you. But I don’t need to be told I am a relic of the past simply because I like the franchise for different reasons. If it weren’t for fans like me keeping the flag flying for the past 30-40 years and keeping the franchise afloat it’s quote possible you wouldn’t even have your sparkling new Into Darkness to enjoy.

111. El Chup - August 23, 2013

@ 104

As much as a like a lot of his work, Pegg showed long ago that he can be quite arrogant and show double standards. His routine trashing of the Star Wars prequels is well know, and even his objections to the Special Editions of the originals. Yet it didn’t stop him signing up for the Clone Wars cartoon when they offered him a paycheque.

It’s hypocritical to the extreme that he can be all righteous over his beloved Star Wars rehashing things, yet quite happily earn money from something that does exactly the same for the Trek universe – and even more so that the SW prequels in my opinion.

Compare this to Karl Urban. Who recently said, more more diplomatically, that he hopes the next movie returns to Trek’s routes and tells a fresh new story. Well, that’s a comment that speaks absolute volumes and it also means he is well aware of the shortcomings of STiD from the point of few of the fan. But then he’s an old school Trek fan, and us old school fans should just show up and accept whatever we’re fed, right?

112. PC3 - August 23, 2013

Honest Trailer = Dead On Balls Accurate: JJtrek SUCKS!!

113. dswynne - August 23, 2013

@99: I understand where you are coming from, but, having worked in a customer service capacity at my place of work for the past year, that phrase (“The customer is always right”) is patently subjective. It’s one thing to expect that the standards of service is correct, but it’s not right when a customer tries to throw the employee under the proverbial bus because he or she doesn’t like changes of service within the company. A customer does not have the right to abuse the employee (ie. Pegg) for the actions of the company (Bad Robot). You don’t have to patronize the business, but you don’t have to the right to abuse the worker. In fact, a more constructive approach is by talking/writing to those who do have a say in company policy, such as the writers and producers, and you do so in a way that doesn’t put them on the defensive (using the art of persuasion as a means of gaining both respect and better quality of service). At least, in this case, Bob Orci, in spite of my own problems with the script (and his reasons for having a white English actor play an Indian Sikh dictator), at least he comes here to TrekMovie for fan feedback. But why would he come here if he feels he’s being disrespected? Are fans so emotionally tied to the Star Trek franchise that they loose all sense of decorum when making their criticism of “Into Darkness” known?

And btw, Gene Roddenberry didn’t think the Star Trek movies, after TMP, were really Star Trek films either, criticizing them for being too “military” (hence, TNG).

114. Spock's Bangs - August 23, 2013

#110. “Honest Trailer = Dead On Balls Accurate: JJtrek SUCKS!!

Yeah…sucks to the tune of over 400 million dollars! Wait till the DVD debuts in a couple of weeks for another look at just how poorly this movie was received! Lol.

115. star trackie - August 23, 2013

#111 “Are fans so emotionally tied to the Star Trek franchise that they loose all sense of decorum when making their criticism of “Into Darkness” known?”

Yep, some are. Everyone else really loved the movie and it pisses off the haters so they hate harder and louder to try and compensate.

116. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2013

PaulB.,

You don’t have the right to continue trolling and being an ass here. Your behaviour has worn thin, and you and other haters here prove that Simon Pegg was correct in his “f*ck off!” proclamation.

As for IDIC itself, well, infinite d*cks, infinite c*nts is probably more like it.

117. Mad Mann - August 23, 2013

The thing that bugs me the most is how much money was wasted on STiD. Boborci’s favorite scene was when the Enterprise rose out of the water, but was that shot really worth it? I get that they needed a “money shot” for the trailer, and a big emotional first look at the ship in the movie, but this one scene caused more trouble that it was worth. The “Bang” was not worth the “buck” spent on that shot. If that whole “Enterprise underwater” thing was taken out of the movie, it would have caused less controversy, saved money, and had a couple 100000 or more people see the movie multiple times. Yeah, I really think a few hundred thousand people were turned off by the stupidity of having the Enterprise underwater.

All-in-all, more money in the bank.

118. Spock's Bangs - August 23, 2013

#115. “caused more trouble that it was worth. The “Bang” was not worth the “buck” spent on that shot.”

For you. I loved it. Without getting bogged down in fanboy science…can it…could it…would it…I just loved the imagery of it all. Great scene from a fantastic opening.

119. PaulB - August 23, 2013

Matt Wright/Trekmovie staff,

Can you finally do something about Red Dead Ryan now that he’s posting stuff like this: “As for IDIC itself, well, infinite d*cks, infinite c*nts is probably more like it.” (post #114 right now)

If RDR is allowed to continue this way, then Trekmovie SHOULD shut down. If RDR and his ilk are allowed to spew profanity and hatred at EVERYONE they disagree with, then this site is dead.

Please do something about RDR and his behavior. NOTHING I have posted justifies the bile spewing from his keyboard, and he has gone WAY over the line.

If he’s allowed to continue, then all the rest of us should be allowed to post anything and everything we want, no limits. If there are standards here, they should be enforced.

120. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2013

PaulB.,

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You have used the f-bomb a number of times already on this thread, and you have referred to me as an a-hole. Before you get on YOUR high horse, please consider what you have posted before trying to rat me out.

Your tactics here are cowardly and dishonorable.

121. Matt Wright - August 23, 2013

Nock it off both of you, PaulB and Read Dead Ryan. There’s no need to feed into each other like that. Stop responding to each other, its that simple.

122. DS9 IN PRIME TIME - August 23, 2013

Honest trailers has a point! lol

123. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@121

Hi Matt,

My thoughts exactly. You posted while I was writing this, or I would not have even posted my message above.

Well said!

PS: Any luck getting in touch with Anthony?

124. Matt Wright - August 23, 2013

Did some clean-up of the last few comments, there’s no need to continue down that path. Let’s move on guys.

125. Matt Wright - August 23, 2013

@123 – No luck whatsoever. AFAIK the domain name auto-renewed for a year.

126. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@125

Thanks Matt. Well, Anthony’s credit card must be active still if the site auto-renewed?

127. Matt Wright - August 23, 2013

I assume so yes.

128. El Chup - August 23, 2013

@114 – Erm, sorry? Did you even read my post? Your quote wasn’t even mine. If you’re going to be smug then please try and do it properly and not like a 2 year old that can’t read.

129. Spock's Bangs - August 23, 2013

/\ /\ /\. the numerical order of posts shift quite frequently on this forum. New to these parts, eh?

130. Brevard - August 23, 2013

Honest Trailers nailed it! I loved ST09, but absolutely loathed STID. I even tried to be fair and saw it a second time in the theater and hated it even more. You can’t make a good movie if you don’t have a good script. It’s that simple. And now that Paramount has hired the same writers again, it just shows that they don’t really care as long as the money come pouring in…

131. drum-van - August 23, 2013

is the “making of stid” clip not working? all i get is a black screen with no clickable link.

132. Jack - August 23, 2013

130. I really do think they meant incredibly well. But the road to, er, lousy movies is paved with good intentions and Trek has never fared well when the creators tried to pander to please fans.

See: Trek V, all the TNG movies (it mostly worked with First Contact).

Future writers: trust your instincts, ignor sites like this entirely. We know what we like after the fact, but our suggestions for how to make it that way are, generally, terrible. See: fanfiction.

133. star trackie - August 23, 2013

Just dropped my pre-order for the Into Darkness/Phaser bundle on Amazon. Loved the movie, love the new phasers, and I can’t wait to dig into the special features. It just sucks that I have to wait until Sept. 10 while the digital download is available now.

Cant really blame them for pushing the digital downloads. Generate the same revenue without having to pay for all the production of discs and shipping etc etc. is a pretty smart business model. So yeah, the studio makes a lot more money with a lot less effort. Sucks, but it is the future I’m afraid.

134. Sebastian S. - August 23, 2013

@ Ahmed

“Reading Pegg comment, I can only think of one response ,

GO F$$K YOURSELF, MISTER.

The fans pay for your bloody work, a$$hole. We are entitled to show our dislike if the bloody product was stupid & dumb like your movie.

What a jacka$$”

**************************************

Took the words right out of my keyboard. Well said… ;-)

As for the people defending this guy and his contempt for the fans? Really, you shouldn’t. You look like suckers when you do.

If he’s so offended by fans not liking his bad movie (which they PAID to see), I’m sure he can try his tears and blow his nose with a hefty paycheck from Bad Robot….

Frankly? I’m amazed that there are so many here actually defending this very poorly written movie (besides the usual sycophants MJ and Red Dead Ryan).

And RDR? You’re wrong about me yet again; I didn’t go into this movie hating it. I very much wanted to love this movie. I’ve been a ST fan since before you were born, so buzz off. You don’t know me (and if my good luck holds, you never will…).

I was a big fan of ST09 and I still am. But STID isn’t even up to the standard of its immediate predecessor (which it borrows very heavily from). Pretty bad when the writers rip themselves off (and Wrath of Khan) and still fall short.

135. Jack - August 23, 2013

By they I mean the production. Pegg says fans aren’t recognizing all the love that went into it. But I think the love is part of the problem. We (fans, Earth) don’t need a valentine to a 1982 movie (or a rehash of parts of Trek 09). We need a story that works on its own — and I still don’t think this story really makes a lot of sense, except as a means to get us to the reactor scene and the big crash.

Look at Trek II — it’s one of the best Treks, I’d argue, because it has no winks to the audience. It mentions Klingons, Vulcans and Romulans & it’s set in space, sure, but it otherwise avoids stunt callbacks to TOS. It respects TOS without recreating it.

I wish JJ had stuck to his goal to make a great movie for all movie fans — and not just Trek2 fans. It seemed like the guy’s heart wasn’t in this one.

I wonder if this summer showed that audiences are tired of the current “must end with destructive battle with Big Bad” formula. Damon Lindelof actually helped World War Z work by making the ending really tight and intimate…

Unsolicited advice to Bob and Alex — stay off these sites, avoid screenwriting re-actively. Write a good story that works for you. I’m a mere journalist, but I really find that my work is lousy when I start anticipating how fans and trolls may react in the comment section. Don’t try to address the fan gripes about Trek 09 or Trek STID in the screenplay (TWOK would have been terrible if the characters stood around and talked about V’Ger and what they’d learned since then).

The Star Wars prequels were terrible because each film didn’t confidently stand on its own. Look at the original trilogy. Nobody’s standing around chatting for the audience about the time Ben and Luke met Han in the cantina. There are no recaps. if you’ve never seen the first two movies, you can still understand what’s going on in Return of the Jedi.

136. dswynne - August 23, 2013

@130: The funny thing is that while I did like STiD, that had a good plot in the “Countdown into Darkness” tie-in comic that would have worked as both a good film and an original film. Plus, the mini-series did have elements of classic ‘Trek (ala “Private Little War). Orci and company should have done that, then set up “Into Darkness” as the third act in a three-part trilogy.

On another note, the “Countdown” tie-in that set up the “Star Trek ’09” would have been the perfect send-off for the TNG cast and crew, thereby giving fans the ability to have closure. Just saying.

137. Jack - August 23, 2013

I wonder if these guys being TV series veterans has anything to do with how the movie really relies on the previous film, the previous series/movies, the comics, the video game, etc. for the story to work.

Storytelling in most modern series relies and builds upon what has come before. But a movie — even a sequel — can’t do that in the same way. Sure, the movie can set up a problem that the sequel can continue or resolve, but the stories still need to function as self-contained stories. See: Trek II, III and IV , the original Star Wars series.

I think the Matrix sequels didn’t work as well as they could have because they really felt like “last time, on the Matrix.”

The Bourne movies, on the other hand, really worked, I’d say.

138. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@134

Well, I for one, grow tired of most people in Hollwywood like JJ, Spielberg, most actors, etc., who just tell us the same tired cliches, or the same tired interview responses, and who always keep their true feelings in check.

So, I applaud Pegg for being honest and dropping an F-bomb. Good for him, regardless of the context and whether I agree with his point or now.

Their are just too many analy-retentive people in Hollywood — that’s probably one of the reasons that most of them are in therapy.

139. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

I mean, come on, Sebastian S, in your own public statements here, you just got “your psychologcal release” by using terms (or advocating the use of these terms by saying: “Took the words right out of my keyboard”) — in one single post for Christ’s sake:

F-yourself
A-hole
Jackass
sycophants

(you must be in a good mood today, because you failed to mention c-sucker and doucebag?)

Glad you and Ahmed got your release, at least, even if you refuse to allow Pegg the same courtesy.

140. Yanks - August 23, 2013

@ 3. MJ (The Original). – August 22, 2013
It is WRONG that I both liked STID a lot, but also pretty much agree with mos to the Honest Trailer review of it?
———————————————————————————————–

Nope, I rated STID 7 of 10 and think for the most part the Honest Trailer is right on target.

141. Marja - August 23, 2013

36, PaulB, “Is it any wonder why so many of us no longer feel that this new version of Trek is really Star Trek? Or at least, it’s no longer a version of Star Trek that we care to be a part of, and THAT is why we are so pissed at STID.”

I think “so many of us” is an exaggeration, your numbers are smaller than you might think. If you don’t care to be a part of it, I can understand, to a point.

I’m no fan of the amped-up and excessive amount of violence in the film. I love the new cast, I love the new Enterprise, and I love the moments of emotion and humor, so well-acted. So for me STiD was 50/50. But still worth seeing, more than once.

41 LizardGirl, “if fans can dish it [hate] out, they should be able to take it.”
Right on. And we don’t know, maybe Simon has been checking out TrekMovie and gotten a bellyful of the bellyachin’ … and the hate directed at the creators of STiD.

142. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@132 “Future writers: trust your instinct”

Like with Cowboys and Aliens?

No, I think that they should be taking a lot of notes from these discussions. And it’s really not all that complicated — here are seven guidelines that they should use:

1. Next movie should be strange new worlds and more scifi-focused, and not a big grude match focus. They are suppose to be in deep space now, so let’s make the movie happen in deep space – duh! No Klingons, No Romulans — new stuff!

2. Next movies should be more original — no nods to earlier Trek movie or TV series needed this time around. And if you need help coming up with some new Trek ideas, use the novels for inspiration instead of doing nods to previous movies or TOS episodes.

3. Next movie needs to me more logic base in terms of plot — no warping from Klingon Space to Earth in 5 minutes, no dumbass transwarp transporters, etc. etc.

4. Make an effort to put Uhura and Marcus in situations where they use their skills and are part of the team, rather than as female objects for Kirk and Spock to work off of. And no more underwear shots, please!

5. No stale political messages this time. Most of us had figured out already about Bush’s over-reaching on terrorism about 7-8 years ago – duh.

6. Stop making one guy the “funny guy”. In Trek 2009, it was Scotty, and in STID it was McCoy. Do true adult ensemble cast writing, and spread the humor around.

7. Let Spock just be Spock for once, without emotional flare-ups or pounding the shit out of someone in an emotional rage. At the same time, can Kirk win a fight for just once, please? :-) And let’s see a more intelligent Kirk — show that he understands strategy and command now, please.

143. Marja - August 23, 2013

46, Sebastian S, ” Here’s hoping the next movie crashes and burns…”
Seriously, man? Stay away if you hate it, fine, if the box office #s are reduced they will re-think the direction for the new ST.

I don’t like the amped-up violence in the new Trek, and I saw STiD half the times I saw ST2009.

But to wish the death of the franchise? Wow

144. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@141 (Marja to Sebastian) “I think “so many of us” is an exaggeration, your numbers are smaller than you might think. If you don’t care to be a part of it, I can understand, to a point.

Agreed. This so-called “so many of us” is Sebastian and the same group of 7 to 10 other people who continually post here — and by posting so much, they give the false impression that this “some movement” of Trek fans, when its really just no larger than a bakers dozen at most of disgruntled fans.

145. Marja - August 23, 2013

Sebastian S, ” judging by the pile of cash [STiD] made? I don’t think the writers will feel any pressing need to change the formula any time soon. … “Follow the money…”

I can almost guarantee you that the next movie will have a rehashed, popular villain (The Borg, Charlie X, Gary Mitchell, Harry Mudd, whatever) and some sort of revenge plot.
Oh, God forbid, I mean it. I am sick of the villain/revenge trope and have said so numerous times.

And I’m sure they’ll ‘blow up stuff real good’ too (gotta keep the 14 year olds from squirming in their seats too much; they might get bored, heaven forbid…).
Heh – it’s not only the 14-year olds … it’s a whole generation. I could do with less “relentless action” and more emphasis on our beloved characters, which O/K write very, very well.

Yeah, this is REALLY what Gene Roddenberry wanted, I’m sure…
You may recall, for the second movie, Roddenberry proposed that the Enterprise crew go back in time and prevent the assassination of President Kennedy … not a winner in my book. And TMP was unbearable to many, except the people who enjoyed the 10? 14?-minute fly-by over the Enterprise. Which looked damn good, mind you, but … in contrast to its name, ST:TMP was rather motionless to me.

146. DiscoSpock - August 23, 2013

@46 / Sebastian S: ”Here’s hoping the next movie crashes and burns.”

WOW !!! Did I just really read this?

And this guy is correspondingly getting his panties all bunched up about Simon P. using the F word? Really?

147. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

@ 139. MJ (The Original). – August 23, 2013

“Glad you and Ahmed got your release, at least, even if you refuse to allow Pegg the same courtesy”

Actors paid to make movies, if the fans don’t like the movie, they should accept that & not act a total jacka$$ like Pegg did.

Picture yourself going to a theater & the actor on the stage say at the end, you know what pal, F$$K YOU, I don’t care that you took the time to come to the theater & pay to see me. How would you feel about that, MJ?

148. Marja - August 23, 2013

54 JimJ “Here’s hoping that even though STID has made 68+ million MORE than than the last movie (and isn’t done yet overseas), that Orci & the rest of the writers and producers have learned a valuable lesson. It IS ok to do something original, thought provoking, and entertaining. The trick and creative challenge is…can you do it without blowing up things, killing lots of people (in your movie world), and following that same old formula used over and over again by almost every movie Hollywood churns out in today’s world.”

Alas I think the lesson they’ve learned is that relentless action/violence sells like mad overseas. : (

As for the fans’ reaction, I hope they take some of it onboard, but in view of Box Office number$ I am feeling a bit down about the prospects of emphasis on what we love best – our characters, their ship, and exploration.

149. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@147. “Picture yourself going to a theater & the actor on the stage say at the end, you know what pal, F$$K YOU, I don’t care that you took the time to come to the theater & pay to see me. How would you feel about that, MJ?”

That’s not a fair comparison. Picture this fair comparison instead:

I am in a theater, and most people are enjoying the play. But 15% of the people in the audience are not enjoying it, and they start doing catcalls. Then, one of the actors has enough, and say’s FU to those of you who don’t like this. For my part, I would cheer and clap at this response, and I expect that man others in the audience would join me.

150. Matt Wright - August 23, 2013

@ 142 – Great notes MJ, they’re all reasonable and constructive points. If the writers/producers could execute those notes I’d be much happier with the next J.J. Trek movie.

151. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

Thanks Matt!

152. Sebastian S. - August 23, 2013

@ MJ~

“I mean, come on, Sebastian S, in your own public statements here, you just got “your psychologcal release” by using terms (or advocating the use of these terms by saying: “Took the words right out of my keyboard”) — in one single post for Christ’s sake:

F-yourself
A-hole
Jackass
sycophants

(you must be in a good mood today, because you failed to mention c-sucker and doucebag?)

Glad you and Ahmed got your release, at least, even if you refuse to allow Pegg the same courtesy.”

************************************

Show HIM courtesy?!? Newsflash: Pegg’s the one insulting fans.
Fans who dared have the ‘audacity’ not to blindly love this bad movie. Telling them to ‘f**k off’ is bad sport (couldn’t see Doohan doing that), considering that they are his paying audience. I showed him courtesy when I paid to see his movies. That’s all he requires.

If you and others like RDR want to keep eating from the trough, be my guest. I can hardly give a s#!t anymore, to be honest. STID was a bad movie and I won’t falsely sing it’s praises when it doesn’t deserve them. And I can pretty much guarantee you that because it made barrels of cash the next one will be yet another tired, boring, revenge story/rip-off just like it. Hell, these guys aren’t even talented enough to rip off their one actual good movie (ST09).

Who put you in charge of defending this mediocre movie anyway? You trying to get on the Bad Robot payroll now?

153. PaulB - August 23, 2013

#149 MJ “That’s not a fair comparison. Picture this fair comparison instead:

I am in a theater, and most people are enjoying the play. But 15% of the people in the audience are not enjoying it, and they start doing catcalls. Then, one of the actors has enough, and say’s FU to those of you who don’t like this. For my part, I would cheer and clap at this response, and I expect that man others in the audience would join me.”
****

If anyone had stood up during STID and done catcalls, your analogy would hold water. No, the analogy is this: After the play, the 15% is outside with the others who loved it, all chatting and arguing on the sidewalk. The star hears about the complainers, steps out the stage door, says, “F*** you!” and goes back to count his money.

Be fair in your analogies. To pile on metaphors: nobody rained on your parade, they merely complained about the parade after it had passed.

154. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

Like I have said before, STID was not nearly as good as Trek 2009 (see my comments above for improvements for the next movie), but it is harldy a bad Trek movie. It’s in the middle of the pack in terms of where I rate all the movies.

And I still find Pegg’s honesty refrehsing, so sue me.

And I don’t see much difference here in you venting and Pegg venting. I know guys like you and Pegg — you get all liquored up together, the F-bombs start flying, and then your are best friends by closing time.

155. Keachick - August 23, 2013

Last time I came here I recall commenting that the thread/site was “fritzing out”. This is a new thread and after trying to read all the comments just here (let alone any other sites), my guts are in a knot and the toilet keeps calling.

All I can think is to tearfully say “F*ck you!” but darn it, wouldn’t you know, Simon Pegg bet me to it.

Oh, and for a little something positive and real. Oh, that’s right, I almost forgot – it is silly to write good wishes etc on a real person’s birthday (someone who has twice played a major character in a near 50 year old franchise) so instead, we have the above…

Chris Pine has a birthday on Monday, 26 August. He will be 33 years old.
Happy Birthday, Chris. Best wishes and love – Rose (as in Keachick).

As for (pretty much) the rest – F*CK IT!!!

156. PaulB - August 23, 2013

#154 Keachick, yes, Happy Birthday to Mr. Pine! In ST09, he embodied Kirk so perfectly that he may well give Shatner a run for his money (if he hasn’t already outshined Shatner).

In STID, Pine’s performance was as flawless as an actor could hope for. He took what they gave him and knocked it out of the ballpark, as did all of the actors. (Except Weller, who felt forced and cliche. Everyone else, A+ performances in both films.)

I’ll also join you in your last statement, too. :)

157. ironhyde - August 23, 2013

Honest Traier – funny. I agree, Kirk is no longer a hero, a role model, a man to look up to and strive to be like.. he’s a jerk, drunkard, loud-mouth. Worst Captain ever. :( Funny, a childhood hero lost in clumsy caricature

158. Vultan - August 23, 2013

#142

I can’t add anything to that list.
Fantastic, MJ. Exactly what Trek should be.

159. JimJ - August 23, 2013

Marja: In response to these comments-“Alas I think the lesson they’ve learned is that relentless action/violence sells like mad overseas. : ( ”

“As for the fans’ reaction, I hope they take some of it onboard, but in view of Box Office number$ I am feeling a bit down about the prospects of emphasis on what we love best – our characters, their ship, and exploration.”

I LOVED STID, unlike a loud faction of fans on here (notice I didn’t say “the majority of fans”?)… But, i sincerely meant what i said. They now need to move on and do something original instead of saying “wouldn’t it be cool if we *insert character or TOS threat from the TV show/movie*?”

Bob & Co.- You worked so hard to reboot the franchise and have the opportunity to start with a clean slate, so why would you now write yourselves right back into the same corners you worked so hard to eliminate? Why do we HAVE to have Klingons as a main threat? Why does it have to be Khan, the Doomsday Machine, Trelane, Harry Mudd, Apollo, or whoever? DO YOUR OWN THING NOW! Flex your writing creative muscle!!!

It’s silly to write for the fans that say….wow, it would be SOOO cool to see the giant hand of Apollo grip the Enterprise in this alternate universe/reality (although some fans on here might like watching Pegg get jolted by Apollo’s lightning bolts-LMAO). The fact is: We didn’t see all 5 years of TOS 5 year mission. Show us something we missed out on! That would be exciting!

Regarding overseas ticket sales: that was because they got smart with their marketing of the product. Follow a similar path (but don’t release overseas BEFORE the United States) and you’ll do just as well if not even better.

160. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2013

#142.

I agree with your list. I would add that the next movie needs a few more “quiter” moments. STID got all “hyper” at times during the movie. The audience needs a breather once in a while.

#146.

Yes, Sebastien S. (along with PaulB. and Ahmed) feels entitled to trash something that isn’t to his liking. This irrational behavior is what gives us Trekkies a bad name, and why sitcoms and SNL skits make fun of us.

On another note, I find it interesting how “The Trio” have called me out, and criticised Simon Pegg, for use of foul language when they have done the EXACT SAME THING in THEIR OWN POSTS!!! And they all give themselves a pat on the back!

Not only are these guys out of touch with reality, they are also hypocrites.

161. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

@142. MJ (The Original).

Bob, please read what MJ wrote at post #142.

162. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

@ 159. Red Dead Ryan – August 23, 2013

“#146.
Yes, Sebastien S. (along with PaulB. and Ahmed) feels entitled to trash something that isn’t to his liking. This irrational behavior is what gives us Trekkies a bad name, and why sitcoms and SNL skits make fun of us.

On another note, I find it interesting how “The Trio” have called me out, and criticised Simon Pegg, for use of foul language when they have done the EXACT SAME THING in THEIR OWN POSTS!!! And they all give themselves a pat on the back!”

Dude, I didn’t even mention your name in my post about Pegg, nor I was interested to do so.
I was attacking only Pegg to acting that way toward us, the fans.
Check your facts before you launch your attack, please.

163. PaulB - August 23, 2013

#159 – Look, RDR is back at it!

I didn’t trash the film here, RDR. I admitted that it’s “real Star Trek (whatever that means)” and then said that’s it’s just becoming a version of Trek that I no longer enjoy.

If you cannot keep quiet and leave my name out of your comments, at least try to be accurate.

164. PaulB - August 23, 2013

(now it’s #160–whatever, it’s the post with RDR doing more trolling and lie-spewing against me and others)

165. Mike C. - August 23, 2013

Bob Orci… I loved STID. I agree with this…

142. MJ (The Original). – August 23, 2013
@132 “Future writers: trust your instinct”

1. Next movie should be strange new worlds and more scifi-focused, and not a big grude match focus. They are suppose to be in deep space now, so let’s make the movie happen in deep space – duh! No Klingons, No Romulans — new stuff!

2. Next movies should be more original — no nods to earlier Trek movie or TV series needed this time around. And if you need help coming up with some new Trek ideas, use the novels for inspiration instead of doing nods to previous movies or TOS episodes.

3. Next movie needs to me more logic base in terms of plot — no warping from Klingon Space to Earth in 5 minutes, no dumbass transwarp transporters, etc. etc.

4. Make an effort to put Uhura and Marcus in situations where they use their skills and are part of the team, rather than as female objects for Kirk and Spock to work off of. And no more underwear shots, please!

5. No stale political messages this time. Most of us had figured out already about Bush’s over-reaching on terrorism about 7-8 years ago – duh.

6. Stop making one guy the “funny guy”. In Trek 2009, it was Scotty, and in STID it was McCoy. Do true adult ensemble cast writing, and spread the humor around.

7. Let Spock just be Spock for once, without emotional flare-ups or pounding the shit out of someone in an emotional rage. At the same time, can Kirk win a fight for just once, please? :-) And let’s see a more intelligent Kirk — show that he understands strategy and command now, please.

166. Mike C. - August 23, 2013

Bob Orci… I loved STID. I agree with this…

142. MJ (The Original). – August 23, 2013
@132 “Future writers: trust your instinct”

1. Next movie should be strange new worlds and more scifi-focused, and not a big grude match focus. They are suppose to be in deep space now, so let’s make the movie happen in deep space – duh! No Klingons, No Romulans — new stuff!

2. Next movies should be more original — no nods to earlier Trek movie or TV series needed this time around. And if you need help coming up with some new Trek ideas, use the novels for inspiration instead of doing nods to previous movies or TOS episodes.

3. Next movie needs to me more logic base in terms of plot — no warping from Klingon Space to Earth in 5 minutes, no dumbass transwarp transporters, etc. etc.

4. Make an effort to put Uhura and Marcus in situations where they use their skills and are part of the team, rather than as female objects for Kirk and Spock to work off of. And no more underwear shots, please!

5. No stale political messages this time. Most of us had figured out already about Bush’s over-reaching on terrorism about 7-8 years ago – duh.

6. Stop making one guy the “funny guy”. In Trek 2009, it was Scotty, and in STID it was McCoy. Do true adult ensemble cast writing, and spread the humor around.

7. Let Spock just be Spock for once, without emotional flare-ups or pounding the shit out of someone in an emotional rage. At the same time, can Kirk win a fight for just once, please? :-) And let’s see a more intelligent Kirk — show that he understands strategy and command now, please..?

167. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2013

PaulB.,

Does this sound familar? It’s from your post at #42:

“The new Trek is summed up in Pegg’s words and attitude: “F**k you, humans suck!”

Classic Trek: “The human adventure is just beginning.” New Trek: “F**k adventure, let’s start a fight club!” ”

Sure looks like you were trashing the film…..and using harsh language to boot.

CASE CLOSED!!!

168. ElrondL - August 23, 2013

#154 and #159:
Thank you. I stayed away from this site for a while because the comments get so hateful. Things haven’t changed much. I realize many people here don’t like STID, but there’s a big difference between opinion and venom.

I’m sorry, but that convention vote was pathetic. Even worse, it became a bigger story that supposedly represented ALL Trek fans. That’s the sad state of journalism. By all the accounts I’ve read, Pegg has ALWAYS respected fans and is a nice guy. In the original interview, he understood that some fans might be disappointed, but his point was they worked hard to make a good movie. That F-bomb was aimed at the mean-spirited crowd who have been giving him sh** for months. Why isn’t he allowed to say it back?

To add something positive, we saw the “Cornetto Trilogy” last night and had a blast. “The World’s End” is very well done!

169. PaulB - August 23, 2013

Red Dead Ryan, I said leave me out of your comments, and I mean leave me the hell out of your comments! Pretend I don’t exist. Stop commenting about me and to me. Move along.

170. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

—————————–

Patrick Stewart plays along with Trek fans, utters Picard’s most famous line.

While at the offices of Twitter, Sir Patrick deigned the workers worthy enough to be be his make-shift ensigns, if only for a brief, spectacular moment.

http://www.blastr.com/2013-8-23/patrick-stewart-plays-along-trek-fans-utters-picards-most-famous-line?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

171. Jonboc - August 23, 2013

#154. “And I still find Pegg’s honesty refrehsing, so sue me.”

I’m with ya on that. These fans are mad because Pegg took them down a notch. They love to sling venom, but get ruffled when it comes back to bite them.

172. Curious Cadet - August 23, 2013

@113. dswynne,
“A customer does not have the right to abuse the employee (ie. Pegg) for the actions of the company (Bad Robot). You don’t have to patronize the business, but you don’t have to the right to abuse the worker.”

I don’t disagree with your general premise. But I don’t believe that’s the case here and certainly not how the business world handles such situations. Further, if the business has a monopoly and is the only game in town (as does Star Trek), then boycotting is not always an option.

As I understand it, Pegg was telling the fans to f-off because they voted STID the worst Star Trek film of all time, and he took it personally. It wasn’t a direct attack on Pegg, but rather the movie he was a part of.

So let’s say an employee overheard a customer in his store telling another customer how terrible the service was, and that employee walked up to the customer and told them he and the other employees put a lot of hard work and pride into the company and if they don’t like it they can f-off. If I were that employee’s manager, I would fire him.

Now let’s use your example. An irate employee comes in and verbally abuses an employee for changes in the companies policies. Rather than walk away, or call his manger, that employee snaps and tells the customer to f-off. Well, that is not what any employees anywhere are trained to do. And however irate the customer is, such outbursts will pass. But rising to the level of the customer’s abuse as a representative of the company is absolutely uncalled for. Employees are regularly let go for mishandling such customer service issues in the real world, even if the customer was the instigator.

My contention in this comparison of yours is that such behavior by Pegg may equally backfire on him. Telling fans to f-off is not good policy for his career, regardless of how unfairly the fans might behave, or how loyal and well intentioned his defense of his film may be.

173. Marja - August 23, 2013

142 MJ, I really agree with most of your post!

As for Spock, I wouldn’t mind if he gets to show some emotion with Uhura : ) – but the gentle, quiet love-kind. A forehead touch, a Vulcan-style kiss before they enter the Bridge for their official workday.

I still put down his behavior in STiD to PTSD from the events of the first movie, and losing a newfound friend [Kirk] and an old friend and mentor [Pike, who died directly at Khan's "hands" /attack]. “Emotions run deep within our race,” said Sarek to young Spock.

I think Spock, in the third movie, needs to be shown getting a better grip on these emotions, showing only his superior wit/quiet sense of humor, and, IN PRIVATE, his love for Uhura. In other words, more like NimoySpock, but with the added benefit of Uhura ; )

“You lucky dog! All I got was a weird fan-dance”

Re: Pegg’s Fbomb

Didn’t someone post that Pegg was quoting what an indie band member would say if dissed because their previously moderately successful band had a number one hit and began selling albums like crazy, only to be denounced by some longtime fans?

Also, I seem to remember a lot of “Pegg was miscast” “Pegg is a clown” and other disses that went on after ST2009, which I thought were rather insulting to the actor. Better to say “Scotty was written as too much of a clown” – which I think some people did do – and O/K took heed. Along with Kirk’s self-sacrificial action, Scotty pretty much saved the day in this movie, AND got to be human-ly comical. hooray!

I’ve always tried to keep actor and role separate. Some did have legitimately voiced concerns about Pegg being a comic actor and playing Scotty. But that’s different from saying “Pegg sucks!”

174. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

For myself, I have a new found respect for Pegg, and will make decisions with my wallet based on it. I was not planning on seeing The World’s End, but after this situation, I am going to see it this weekend now.

I encourage others to do the same. Let’s support Pegg’s right to defend his Star Trek movie and not bury his head in the sand while disgruntled fans pretend that they are so shoced by this.

175. Marja - August 23, 2013

160 RDR, Agreed. Jeez I needed a breather. That may be part of why I only saw STiD 6 times instead of the record 15 times I saw ST2009

And O&K write the quiet moments and humorous and loving moments so very well, my goodness, play to your strengths, guys.

Though I have to admit I did like two of Marcus’s lines: “Speak up son” and “Well sh*t. You talked to him.”

Relentless action, destruction, violence; cripes, if I want that I can see ten other “tentpole” movies. Why make Trek just another boring action movie? And I mean it. The CGI I enjoyed in Man of Steel applied to all the special backgrounds and equipment in the Planet Krypton sequence. After Supes “comes out” it was destructo city, bore, bore, BORE. Noisy bore, too.

So MJ and RDR, your lips to O&K’s ears!

176. Marja - August 23, 2013

174 MJ, I heard a critical review and it looks pretty good! Yes Mr Pegg will be getting some of my precious movie $$.

What can I say, I just love the guy, as a fellow fan, and based on my above, I am quite sure he was more globally criticising the reaction to JJTrek as the indie band would the reaction to a #1 hit. So my butthurt meter has not been “Pegged”!

177. DiscoSpock - August 23, 2013

#168 “That F-bomb was aimed at the mean-spirited crowd who have been giving him sh** for months. Why isn’t he allowed to say it back?”

Exactly. And notice who on this site is so offended — it’s the people who have been incessantly bitching about STID for weeks, some of whom have even said that they home the next movie ruins the franchise.

178. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

@ 174. MJ (The Original). – August 23, 2013

“For myself, I have a new found respect for Pegg, and will make decisions with my wallet based on it. I was not planning on seeing The World’s End, but after this situation, I am going to see it this weekend now.”

smh (twice)

MJ, I bet if you was on the receiving end of Pegg’s FU comment, you wouldn’t be so supportive of a guy who is insulting the fans because they didn’t like his movie.

btw, I happen to be a fan of his other works, specially the ones with Nick Frost & MI movies, but that comment was simply out of line. I will watch his new movies but I’ve little respect for him now.

Anyway, this is my last comment about Simon Pegg.

179. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2013

#178.

“MJ, I bet if you was on the receiving end of Pegg’s FU comment, you wouldn’t be so supportive of a guy who is insulting the fans because they didn’t like his movie.”

Here’s what you’re forgetting, its about the context of his reply. He dropped the FU comment as a response to people slamming the new movies, and criticising STID before it came out. MJ has been very supportive of Abrams and co., so why would MJ be on the recieving end?

This makes no sense…..you’re trying to turn it around on MJ while ignoring the context of Simon Pegg’s statement in the first place.

180. Brian K - August 23, 2013

All I can say is that I saw STID in a theater twice, enjoyed it more each time, and will be first in line to buy it. Sure it had it’s flaws, but it was entertaining as hell. This said as a 51 year old Trek fan since day one. And yet I come to this site and see constant, repetitive, childish bitching about a MOVIE. ENTERTAINMENT. This is not life or death folks, it’s meant to be an entertaining distraction. Which STID was, with some very well acted emotional character pieces. NONE OF THIS IS REAL FOLKS IN CASE YOU HAVEN’T NOTICED. Get your panties out of a bunch, get a grasp, and as The Shat famously said get a life. Really folks, to the rest of the real world and us normal Trek fans y’all look and sound like a bunch of whiney, bitchy teenage girls that just found out your favorite boy band was all gay. If I met you in person and was faced with your MINORITY but very loud vitriole I would tell you to f**ck off as well.

181. Russell Meyers - August 23, 2013

Is there a bonus feauture exploring the Aft Nacelle?

182. Brian K - August 23, 2013

And YES, I’m looking at YOU Trek-Convention-going-costume-wearing a**hole without a life or a grasp on reality…..

183. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

Brian K,

Dude, you get FIVE STARS from me from your post.

Best fracking post I have read here in awhile.

THANKS!!

184. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2013

Brian K,

That’s one of the most sensible posts I have read on this site in a good while. You really hit the nail on the head!

Outstanding post!

185. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

@ 180. Brian K – August 23, 2013

“If I met you in person and was faced with your MINORITY but very loud vitriole I would tell you to f**ck off as well.”

“Christ on a bendy bus son, don’t be such a f**king faff a**e.” by Malcolm Tucker

186. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

And it looks like ever since Mr. Pegg gave us his wisdom, everybody here, including me, is having a field day calling each other names, just wonderful !!

187. Li'l Shat - August 23, 2013

My favorite part of STID is when Kirk disables Khan’s attack ship by throwing a fire hose at it, but Khan escapes by beaming himself from the cockpit all the way to the Klingon home world.

Or maybe it’s the tribble being brought back to life by an injection of a genetically altered human being’s blood.

Or maybe Alice Eve standing there in her underwear saying, “Turn around!”

No, none of the above. It has to be Spock screaming “KHAAAANNNNNN!!!!”

Or wait, it could be the useless Nimoy cameo, or Scotty just casually flying into the super secret dark megaship hangar with the other shuttles without being asked where he came from or to identify himself.

Really, there are just too many awesome moments in this movie to choose just one favorite.

188. Brian K - August 23, 2013

Thanks MJ and Red Dead. I just get so frustrated with Trek fans at times. We tend to eat our own, for whatever reason….. Here we have 2 very entertaining and money making films in a franchise that was declared DEAD. Yet some fans choose to focus on the flaws. I guess they would prefer there was no more Trek. I come to Trek for entertainment and diversion from the bullshit of everyday life, and STID delivered that very well. I actually feel sorry for the fans that are too caught up in cannon and minutea to be entertained and escape in a theater or at home for 2 hours….

189. Red Dead Ryan - August 23, 2013

#187.

My favorite part of your post is when you finally ended your lil’ rant! :-)

190. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@188 “I actually feel sorry for the fans that are too caught up in cannon and minutea to be entertained and escape in a theater or at home for 2 hours…”

Me too. And it’s even sadder how angry some of these fans have shown themselves to be recently. One wonders if perhaps things aren’t going to well on the home front and they are putting all their hopes and dreams into what they think should be their version of Star Trek. Very sad, indeed.

191. Brian K - August 23, 2013

#187

We don’t really need to rehash all the flaws in in all the Trek films prior to ’09 do we? That would be a VERY long list, and a thread of it’s own. All the gaping plot holes? All the inconsistencies? All the factual errors? All the downright stupid moments? But did you enjoy them?

My point is do you come to Trek as a fan to be entertained, to escape, to imagine? Or do you come to Trek to analyze, nitpick, and criticize. It seems to me some Trek fans see it as a job or an obsession, rather than the entertaining fictional diversion with a little heart thrown in that it is meant to be.

192. Brian K - August 23, 2013

Sorry, for whatever reason the first post didn’t take, wrote another, and then both showed up. I guess I got my point across doubly! ;-)

193. Alt-Spock - August 23, 2013

IMO Pegg’s Scotty was the worst of the character portrayals in ST’09. (Did not see STiD) Pegg is not the great talent he seems to think he is. He does have crass nailed though.

194. Li'l Shat - August 23, 2013

@192 Alt-Spock

I thought Pegg’s Scotty was great in ST’09 but I wasn’t too “keen” on Keenser.

I know… groan.

I still thought Pegg’s Scotty was great in STID and I grew more “keen” on Keenser (…again, groan…), but I was disappointed by the waste of Karl Urban’s incredible talent in portraying Dr. McCoy.

I think of all the actors in Star Trek ’09, Karl Urban’s performance was the most universally hailed as the most spot on. Yet in STID, he’s relegated to a background character playing with dead tribbles.

Get rid of Damon Lindelof, everything will be fine in Star Trek 3.

195. Gary Neumann - August 23, 2013

To all those inane and insane fans out there: There is no way in hell that Star Trek Into Darkness is the worst star trek movie.

Bad directing? – No
Bad Story? – Nope, not here
Bad editing? -Nope
Terrible pace? – Not here, sorry
Horrible acting? – Not at all
Visually unbearable? – Hell no!
Crappy soundtrack? – Negative

And for those logicians who seem to know better, please enlighten us where does the movie make “no sense”. And please show us if those things which make “no sense” that have no easy explanation. Those which are impossible to explain, as many of you proudly claim.

196. Li'l Shat - August 23, 2013

Another favorite scene of mine from STID is where Spock uses a cold fusion device to freeze and disable an entire volcano.

197. Ahmed - August 23, 2013

@ 195. Li’l Shat – August 23, 2013

“Another favorite scene of mine from STID is where Spock uses a cold fusion device to freeze and disable an entire volcano”

lol yep, the funny part that “cold fusion” is not even COLD.

“Cold fusion is a hypothetical type of nuclear reaction that would occur at, or near, room temperature.”

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

198. The Original Spock's Brain - August 23, 2013

@ 3. MJ (The Original). “It is WRONG that I both liked STID a lot, but also pretty much agree with mos to the Honest Trailer review of it?”

Wow, I agree with MJ… Who would’ve thunk it?

199. Li'l Shat - August 23, 2013

@196 Ahmed

the funny part that “cold fusion” is not even COLD.
——————————-

It sure looked positively freezing in that there volcano. I mean, after Spock detonated his cold fusion briefcase, Superman could have moved in and made that volcano his base of operations.

Hey, now there’s an opportunity for a blending of franchises… Lindelof? I can see you salivating.

200. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@197 @199

OK, Geniuses,

For STII-WOK can you explain to me how protomatter, which exists in real physics, and is fully stable and found in Nebulas, and which is used in medicine as well, all of a sudden is a very dangerous material in the WOK that is used for the Genesis Device???

Tell us all why it all of a suddenly becomes dangerous in the later 2260’s and how it was used in Genesis, please???

201. Dave H. - August 23, 2013

Hey Lil Shat,

So when is Voyager 6 going to be launched?

And how come the Humpback Whale population keeps increasing, and there are now over 25,000?

202. Vultan - August 23, 2013

The ‘cold fusion’ device is a trademarked name of Plot Device Innovations, a division of the Acme Company. Also look for their other products, including protomatter, red matter, and the Nexus.

“Whatever moves the story forward.”

203. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

@202

LOL. Don’t get me started on the Nexus! :-))

“The Nexu”s is dumber than anything that The Supreme Court or Harve Bennett ever came up with.

204. MJ (The Original). - August 23, 2013

And as much as I hate the plot conveyance of transwarp transporting, it is consistent with 23rnd century technology. If you can already build starships that operate essentially as “continuous wormhole drives,” then it would be fairly easy to simply send any information (like transporter data) through a small temporary stable wormhole (across light years) that you have created with warp engines.

And “Red Matter” is not nearly as bad as “Dilithium Crystals.” Dilithium is actually real now — but here is the kicker — it is impossible for it to exist in a solid phase. BUZZ — so there goes that one. And exotic forms of Dark Matter, when combined with knowable matter, might form an exotic matter like Red Matter…so at least Red Matter could be slightly possible, whereas Dilithium crystals and Dilithium mines are completely made up.

205. Dave H. - August 23, 2013

Guys,

Yea, there are no more plot conveniences in JJ Trek than there were in any other versions or eras of Trek.

206. Dave H. - August 23, 2013

Bob Orci,

Please implement MJ’s proposed changes for the next movie:
______________________________________

1. Next movie should be strange new worlds and more scifi-focused, and not a big grude match focus. They are suppose to be in deep space now, so let’s make the movie happen in deep space – duh! No Klingons, No Romulans — new stuff!

2. Next movies should be more original — no nods to earlier Trek movie or TV series needed this time around. And if you need help coming up with some new Trek ideas, use the novels for inspiration instead of doing nods to previous movies or TOS episodes.

3. Next movie needs to me more logic base in terms of plot — no warping from Klingon Space to Earth in 5 minutes, no dumbass transwarp transporters, etc. etc.

4. Make an effort to put Uhura and Marcus in situations where they use their skills and are part of the team, rather than as female objects for Kirk and Spock to work off of. And no more underwear shots, please!

5. No stale political messages this time. Most of us had figured out already about Bush’s over-reaching on terrorism about 7-8 years ago – duh.

6. Stop making one guy the “funny guy”. In Trek 2009, it was Scotty, and in STID it was McCoy. Do true adult ensemble cast writing, and spread the humor around.

7. Let Spock just be Spock for once, without emotional flare-ups or pounding the shit out of someone in an emotional rage. At the same time, can Kirk win a fight for just once, please? :-) And let’s see a more intelligent Kirk — show that he understands strategy and command now, please..?

207. Josh C. - August 24, 2013

I could probably write pages about why half of the criticisms of the JJ verse is dumb because it could apply equally to the prime universe (inventing convenient technologies, reusing themes, the best regarded movies being “action” movies all really apply).

Most of that stuff doesn’t really bother me because it’s standard trek (with the possible exception of the magic blood since it’s just a huge thing, though there are ways to minimize that, even).

The main thing that I didn’t like was that, in the end, they tried too much to be like Wrath of Khan, to the point of ripping off the death/KHAAAAAAN scenes. There are homages and there is straight off copying. Carol Marcus is a homage. KHAAAAAN is ripping off.

I’ve watched it a few times digital since that came out. And I genuinely enjoy the movie up until the part when the Enterprise starts “falling” and I just feel like the movie falls apart from that point on. It’s rather sad since they were so close to making a brilliant movie. But it feels like they either got to that point and didn’t know how to deal with it, or planned out that ending and shoehorned it into the story they had made.

208. Vultan - August 24, 2013

#207

Yep, same for me. I think maybe why it took so long to “write” was them sitting with a team of lawyers to figure out a way to change just enough to not give Nick Meyer a writing credit. ;-)

209. DISENFRANCHISED1 - August 24, 2013

I am SICK TO DEATH of getting the shaft from all the companies who create contests that exclude people like myself who do not WANT a Facebook page. That is UNFAIR to the rest of us out here who’d rather not have the world spying on us or digging into our personal lives.

To each and every single one who does this and thinks it’s a great way to do business…THANKS for IGNORING the rest of your potential customers/consumers…so VERY, VERY THOUGHTFUL of you….now PISS OFF.

210. Jonboc - August 24, 2013

Wrath of Khan…worst movie ever.

1. Klingon Neutral zone?? Since when…it was the ROMULAN neutral zone…I thought you watched ALL the episodes Harve??
2. Khan never forgets a face? Even those he has never seen before!! Chekov wasn’t even IN the first season. BAD WRITING!!
3. Carol who? Kirk has a son? Where the hell did that come from??
4. A rat…on a space station?? Ummm….really??
5. Spock was written so horribly! ” I have been and forever shall be, your friend.”. Who is this wise guru of the mountain and what have you done with Spock? Spock never let loose flowery dialog like that in the TV series…EVER.
6. KHHHHAAAN!! unintentionally hilarious, yet stupid at the same time. Kirk knew Spock was coming…a little over the top if it was just a ploy to convince Khan Kirk was “angry”. bad writing and acting.
7. I didn’t know Chekov’s ear was made of paper mâché? Cheesy.
8. It sure was a good thing space suits have handles awkwardly positions on the front of the chest. Sure makes it easy for super villains to pick up people.
9. I’m glad Spock could easily lift the top of to get the mains back on line, but no screws? No bolts? No nothing…just slips right off. is that really smart??
10. No smoking signs? In the bridge?? Really? Yep. At the insistence of that hack director, Meyer.
11. Oh NO! my nephew is dying…better get him to sickbay…oh wait…first I’ll take him to the bridge to say hello. Way to go Scotty, are you that stupid? Bad writing, attrocious directing, and a big shame on you Doohan for letting your character do something so dumb!

I could go on and on, but why relive the agony of Wrath of Khan, easily the worst Trek movie EVER.

And thanks to Brian K for the inspiration!
And yes, Wrath of Khan is my favorite Trek movie.

211. Ahmed - August 24, 2013

@ 200. MJ (The Original). – August 23, 2013

“@197 @199
OK, Geniuses,For STII-WOK can you explain to me how protomatter, which exists in real physics, and is fully stable and found in Nebulas, and which is used in medicine as well, all of a sudden is a very dangerous material in the WOK that is used for the Genesis Device???”

Dammi MJ, I’m a Trekkie not a scientist !

But in general, no one back in the 1980s gave a rat’s a** about scientific accuracy in movies. But these days, B&O can access any information with a simple google search, not to mention asking real scientist.

@204. MJ (The Original). – August 23, 2013

“And as much as I hate the plot conveyance of transwarp transporting, it is consistent with 23rnd century technology. If you can already build starships that operate essentially as “continuous wormhole drives,” then it would be fairly easy to simply send any information (like transporter data) through a small temporary stable wormhole (across light years) that you have created with warp engines.”

Then how come they didn’t have it in the 24th century ??
And since StarFleet got the transwarp transporting, then they should simply decommission the Enterprise & all starships because there is no need for them anymore.
It is a stupid idea that was put in the movie without thinking how it going to affect that fictional universe.

212. Curious Cadet - August 24, 2013

@193. Alt-Spock,
“IMO Pegg’s Scotty was the worst of the character portrayals in ST’09.”

And you are entitled to that opinion. I’m a Scotty guy. Have been since the first time I saw him on screen. Always played Scotty when my buddies and I played Star Trek as kids. I thought I was going to hate Pegg as Scotty from what I had seen in the trailers. Yet, I found myself pleasantly surprised. He wasn’t fantastic, but he did a remarkably appealing Scotty for me … To the point where I would have liked to have seen more.

In my humble opinion, Chekov gets the honor as the worst character portrayal in ST09. Then again, the character isn’t really Chekov since he couldn’t be old enough to play the Chekov established in canon in the Prime universe. The character Yelchin played was spot on terrific, but it wasn’t Chekov, and I was left with a nagging reminder of Wesley Crusher (perhaps the worst character ever created in the Star Trek universe, and played poorly by Wheaton, for my money).

213. Ahmed - August 24, 2013

George Takei wants to do a Cameo in Star Trek 3.

—————————————
Huffington Post; If they ever asked you to take part in the next “Star Trek” movie, would you be interested in a cameo?

Takei : I’ve dropped hints to J.J., as a matter of fact. [Laughs] I’m totally shameless. Leonard [Nimoy] has done two cameos already, so … the precedent has been set. I’ve been a captain when Spock has only been the First Officer.

Huffington Post: You should do it.

Takei: I think it would be interesting if they made me up as an alien, and I could only be recognized by my voice. Wouldn’t that be fun?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/23/george-takei-sochi-olympics-gay-rights-putin_n_3798777.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-tv

214. I am not Herbert - August 24, 2013

doodli-doot…
doodli-doot…
doodli-doot…

STID = pure crap

’nuff said?

215. Red Dead Ryan - August 24, 2013

#212.

doodli-doot…
doodli-doot…
doodli-doot…

I am not Herbert = total clown

:-)

216. Spock's Bangs - August 24, 2013

# 209, too funny. Kinda puts things in perspective when it comes to all the ridiculous Into Darkness bashing.

#212. It’s ok, I am Not Herbert, the meds will kick in soon and the delusions will stop. :)

217. T'Cal - August 24, 2013

I thoroughly enjoyed STID. I found it better than ST09 because that film, as fun as it was, had huge plot holes and some weak moments. The newer film was tighter and had much better writing. I don’t get why so many see it as an attack on TWOK; I saw it more as an homage to a great film. It was hardly a copy but some important hard points from TWOK carried over into STID and successfully, in my opinion. I was completely happy with the performances of Weller and Cumberbatch, and I even understood that killing off Adm. Pike, as much as I loved the character and how he was played by Mr. Greenwood, was important for Kirk’s growth as a man and as a captain. Spock was great in this too because of scenes like the one where he explains his emotions to Uhura (and Kirk) on the alien ship. I even liked Uhura better and I found here pretty weakly written in the first film. Bones, Scotty, Chekov, and Sulu had important, well-written arcs as well. This was a solid film in my book, and I’ll be buying it on BD very soon.

218. Spock's Bangs - August 24, 2013

#215- well said T’Cal. I totally agree.

219. T'Cal - August 24, 2013

One other detail that I see as important: the humor worked and it worked very well. In the Next Gen films it rarely did; it was just awful most of the time. It wasn’t much better in TMP, TSFS, and TFF. It worked well in TWOK, TVH, and TUC but that may just be solid examples of how hit and miss humor can be in Trek.

220. BillyBoy - August 24, 2013

Viewing the film on its own merits, as a stand alone Hollywood action popcorn movie, Star Trek Into Darkness is immensely entertaining and fun, with great acting and top notch special effects.

But I think much of the “venom” directed at this movie has to do with the fact that we waited four years for a followup to a film that gave us a brand new universe for an iconic science fiction franchise, and we got absolutely NOTHING of substance. There’s no new Star Trek being made right now, and it was a huge letdown that everything else was suppressed (novels set in the new timeline, etc.) so these guys could continue their “vision”. Then we finally got a movie that gave us nothing new. It was full of the typical Hollywood clichés and fist fights and explosions. Though the setting was superficially “science fiction”, there’s very little when it comes to intelligent science-based premises or philosophical ideas. It didn’t even address many of the issues from the last film that caused a huge change in the Star Trek universe as we know it (namely the destruction of Vulcan). Into Darkness is the most Star Warsish of the twelve Star Trek movies, and NOT in a good way.

But instead of lashing out at the creative team, who were just throwing it together and doing what Paramount asked for (3D!!! Action, action, action!!! $$$!!!!), I wish a lot of the “fans” on the internet would admit they were wrong when they: 1) Insisted JJ MUST direct the follow-up film and we should wait around for his schedule, 2) Insisted the film MUST include some iconic bad guy from the old Star Trek (“KHANNNNNNNNNN!! BORG!! KLINGONS!!”), and 3) Said it was fine and dandy to do nothing for four years because these guys were supposedly “taking the time to do it right” (which CLEARLY isn’t the case now…. working on other projects for two years and forgetting about Star Trek was NOT “doing it right”). Those of us who objected to the franchise going in that direction have now been vindicated.

So no, this certainly isn’t the “worst” Trek film. It’s slick, well-made, and extremely humorous and action-packed. Given how lousy the 2013 summer movie season was, it may actually be the “best” big budget Hollywood film in theaters from May-August. But as a worthy addition to the Star Trek universe, it failed Trekkers. Big time.

221. Disinvited - August 24, 2013

#209. Jonboc – August 24, 2013

First, I want to be clear that I get your point. I just want to have some fun trying to address these.

1. The Romulan Neutral Zone was the result of a peace treaty. It wasn’t the only peace treaty. You may recall the one brokered by the Organians? Also, Sherman’s planet which was actively being developed per said treaty by both the Klingons and the Federation was clearly in some sort of neutral area, i.e. zone.

2. Kirk in his infinite wisdom gave Khan free run of the ship’s library computer. Khan used his genetically engineered superior eidetic memory to memorize the crew roster. Khan, recalled Chekov was the one exiting the deck 12 unisex loo when he desperately needed to purge himself of some Romulan Ale only to enter and find it not in a state to serve his needs.

3. Biology. Even in the future, most humans find it is far to easy to reproduce if one suffers even the slightest drop in one’s diligence.

4. What was it the Jurassic Park screenplay said? “Life will find a way.”? What? You didn’t think the Genesis experiments included manufacturing rats which escaped when Khan wrecked their enclosures?

5. Rewatch THIS SIDE OF PARADISE where the spores and Leila get Spock to admit this side of him exists.

6. You, obviously, have not been privy to as many sibling grudge matches that my family’s large broods has exposed me. But perhaps it could be better explained that Admiral Kirk knew full well the historical era from which Khan emerged, and what it would take to fully enrage him so as to better manipulate him into making mistakes in battle.

7. Years of ignoring that awful wig and all you can find in this movie to ding poor Chekov is his poor choice of ear balm?

8. What is it with humans that they get all bent out of shape over hangers? Hey, in a combat situation I’d rather have it in front where I could see an attacker going for it than out of my sight.

9. Rewatch the scene. Spock was moving levers and doing something on the surrounding console that I took for disengaging the mains’ lid locks.

10. If you knew the old ADDAMS FAMILY gag and that lifeforms capable of all kinds of whatnot were in the Federation, you would not be so quick to assume that a 20th century interpretation was the only one possible for that sign.

11. Well, in almost every building or ship disaster drill that I can call to mind, one is instructed not to use the elevators. Scotty thought he could coax it to Sickbay but it was a bad call on his part. But then again isn’t the bridge closer to Sickbay than Engineering? So maybe a mixed result for Scotty and not as bad as it may appear on first blink?

And for the longest time TWOK was my number one. It’s my number two for most of this side of the millennium.

222. Disinvited - August 24, 2013

##209. Jonboc – August 24, 2013

11. Rewatching it. Noticed Spock, in deciding to save the ship, wisely did NOT use the Trubolift in going to Engineering from the Bridge.

223. Xplodin_Nacelle - August 24, 2013

Lol. This is good!

224. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

@211 “But in general, no one back in the 1980s gave a rat’s a** about scientific accuracy in movies.”

Actually, as someone who lived here and watched movies through the 1980’s, I think they cared more back then about scientific acuracy then they do now.

“Then how come they didn’t have it in the 24th century ?? And since StarFleet got the transwarp transporting, then they should simply decommission the Enterprise & all starships because there is no need for them anymore. It is a stupid idea that was put in the movie without thinking how it going to affect that fictional universe.”

Yea, they should not have put it in. But I am saying that in a real 23rd Century, with real warp engines and real transporters, transwarp beaming would be no big technical deal. You simply create a small stable wormhole (using a warp engine, which is essentially a continuous wormhole drive), and transport the information through it from the transport. No big deal,.

Sure, it’s inconvenient and messes up the fictional history, but it would easy to do technologically in Star Trek from the science perspective.

But hey, the Eugenics Wars never happened in the 1990’s, so that fictional history is already messed up.

225. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

Johnboc, your post below is OUTSTANDING. This proves once and for all about all of these straw-man arguments being put forward by the handful of people here who did not STID. What this proves is very straight forward:

IF A FAN DOESN’T”T LIKE A GIVEN STAR TREK MOVIE, THEY CAN POINT OUT MANY TECHNICAL, LOGICAL OR PLOT INCONSISTENCIES IN THAT GIVEN TREK MOVIE, BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE MANY SUCH ISSUES.

So for the Trek movies any one of us doesn’t like, he/she can pretend that it is the number of given issues like this that makes us perceive the movie as bad, instead of being honest with ourselves and just saying: “I didn’t like the movie.”

This is called a STRAW-MAN ARGUMENT.

——————————————————————–

Wrath of Khan…worst movie ever.

1. Klingon Neutral zone?? Since when…it was the ROMULAN neutral zone…I thought you watched ALL the episodes Harve??
2. Khan never forgets a face? Even those he has never seen before!! Chekov wasn’t even IN the first season. BAD WRITING!!
3. Carol who? Kirk has a son? Where the hell did that come from??
4. A rat…on a space station?? Ummm….really??
5. Spock was written so horribly! ” I have been and forever shall be, your friend.”. Who is this wise guru of the mountain and what have you done with Spock? Spock never let loose flowery dialog like that in the TV series…EVER.
6. KHHHHAAAN!! unintentionally hilarious, yet stupid at the same time. Kirk knew Spock was coming…a little over the top if it was just a ploy to convince Khan Kirk was “angry”. bad writing and acting.
7. I didn’t know Chekov’s ear was made of paper mâché? Cheesy.
8. It sure was a good thing space suits have handles awkwardly positions on the front of the chest. Sure makes it easy for super villains to pick up people.
9. I’m glad Spock could easily lift the top of to get the mains back on line, but no screws? No bolts? No nothing…just slips right off. is that really smart??
10. No smoking signs? In the bridge?? Really? Yep. At the insistence of that hack director, Meyer.
11. Oh NO! my nephew is dying…better get him to sickbay…oh wait…first I’ll take him to the bridge to say hello. Way to go Scotty, are you that stupid? Bad writing, attrocious directing, and a big shame on you Doohan for letting your character do something so dumb!

I could go on and on, but why relive the agony of Wrath of Khan, easily the worst Trek movie EVER.

And thanks to Brian K for the inspiration!
And yes, Wrath of Khan is my favorite Trek movie.

226. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

@220

BillyBoy, great post. Here are my personal answers to your three point:

“I wish a lot of the “fans” on the internet would admit they were wrong when they: 1) Insisted JJ MUST direct the follow-up film and we should wait around for his schedule,”

I said many, many times that they need to get someone in who could get the movie done more quickly.

“2) Insisted the film MUST include some iconic bad guy from the old Star Trek (“KHANNNNNNNNNN!! BORG!! KLINGONS!!”),”

People here (like Sebastian) who saw I was right all-along on Khan. keep making the false assumption that I WANTED KHAN IN THE MOVIE. Go back and look over my posts for the 2.5 years prior to the STID release, and you will see that on multiple occasions, I specifically said that I would prefer an original story, and would prefer a movie without Khan, but that I had deduced some minor clues that pointed to me predicting the The Supreme Court was doing a Khan movie.

“and 3) Said it was fine and dandy to do nothing for four years because these guys were supposedly “taking the time to do it right” (which CLEARLY isn’t the case now…. working on other projects for two years and forgetting about Star Trek was NOT “doing it right”). Those of us who objected to the franchise going in that direction have now been vindicated.”

Yea, I led the charge on this. Why the F did it take four years, and I, on multiple occasions commented on how the writing team had completely dropped the ball on getting the screenplay done in anything remotely close to a “timely manner.”

227. dswynne - August 24, 2013

Regarding “transwarp beaming”: we know that at some point in time, a future, Prime Trek Scotty came up with the idea. Yet, we do not know if, in the Prime Trek Universe, Section 31 of that timeline did not also confiscate the idea and related technology. However, given that the character Sloan always appeared on Station DS9 without any known means, it is possible that S31 kept transwarp beaming for themselves. Meanwhile, in the Star Trek comics, S31 agents are seen on Romulus speaking directly to the Paetor and assembled senators. I seriously think that S31 would have easily gotten to Romulus without having transwarp beaming.

Now, why would people still need to have starships with transwarp beaming available? I give you three reasons. One, we do not know the exact range of the transwarp beaming. Like any signal, the greater the distance, the more likely the signal will degrade. Safety considerations would be paramount, especially if you do not know if even a planet’s atmosphere makes even regular beaming possible. Two, for long term missions, you need a base of operations, especially when constructing facilities and housing personnel. Also, you never know if the personnel will end up catching a contagion of some kind (which you don’t want to bring back to Earth), not to mention you would need to have some means of self-defense in case of attack (since any sort of beaming takes time to set up and initiate.

The third reason is that culturally, flying around in a space ship invokes a sense of exploration, going all the way back to the days of exploration. It’s not exactly exciting if you just beam from place to place, you know.

Well, that’s my take. I would love to hear your take on this…

228. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

dswynne,

I pretty much agree with you. My point really was only on “could you do it given the technology around you in Star Trek” and my conclusion was “yes.”

It screws up the plots though, so I would have preferred that they had not done it.

229. Phobos in Montreal - August 24, 2013

Went to see STID again today. Last night I went to see 2 Guns (I had to leave early – was boring me to death and I was fed up with the violence), and earlier this week Wolverine — which was pretty good.

Everytime I go back to STID I realize how truly great it is.

I have only praise for Paramount, the actors and the writers.
I’m definitely buying the br.

230. Keachick - August 24, 2013

To all those posters who are enraged by Simon Pegg’s outburst and tell that they help give him the lifestyle he has. These posters feel that, because they paid to see the movie, this entitles them to constantly be nasty about how he performed his character, Scotty and about the two JJ Abrams’ Star Trek movies.

What about the money spent by the people who did find the films enjoyable? Is their money somehow worth less than those who complain about what they have seen? Simon Pegg was not addressing ALL fans – it was aimed at a particular group. People who did enjoy the two movies, even perhaps love the two films, have also paid their money and have therefore contributed to his comfortable lifestyle, maybe even more so. Is not my/our money worth the same?

The sheer arrogance of some of the *fans* – this is what is making feel literally quite sick. What makes the posters feel they are entitled to constantly berate producers, writers, actors and other fans because these posters have paid their money? What the hell gives you the idea that somehow your money is better than mine, which makes you think you are so entitled?

Sebastian S and others – Cut the crap about your money!

To be honest, I like to feel that Simon Pegg may have been standing up for fans like me (and the other people involved with making the latest Star Trek iterations) when he dropped the F bomb. Maybe he was, maybe not – I don’t know…

Why are some of you here? STID was released for public viewing more than three months ago and yet I am still reading the same old arguments and criticisms from many of the same people.

On the IMDb message board, there are still people going at ST09 and its makers for all the wrongs they perceive that movie has more than four years later. This is tantamount to an old dog gnawing on some horrible old bone and can’t stop himself. These people are junkies who really need help – I am serious.

Now I see similar happening with STID. I don’t think I can endure another three years of the same occurring with this movie from people who can’t/won’t let go of their anger, their disappointment over a particular film not living up to their expectations and continually reading about their often inane criticisms any time I decide to check out some message board on a site.

There are three possible outcomes for ANYONE going to see a movie they have not seen before – a) the film is what they had expected and/or hoped it would be; b) the film is worse than (a); and c) the film is better than (a). We ALL pay our money and take our chances!

231. Phobos in Montreal - August 24, 2013

Simon Pegg is great in STID. Adds humor. The characters I enjoyed the most, in descending order:

Mr. Spock
Khan
Dr. McCoy
Spock Prime
Kirk
Scotty
Pike (awesome acting – bad idea that he died)
Markus
Uhura
Chekov
Sulu

232. Marja - August 24, 2013

99 Bakerman “that moment when Spock turns into Steven Seagal and breaks Khan’s arm over his shoulder – I will be 100% honest here – I found that moment disgusting.” I was also puzzled by [Kronos scene] Spock training his weapon on Khan while Kirk was beating the crap out of Khan. Maybe he and Uhura were letting Kirk vent? When Uhura intervenes – and she did in ST2009 as well – she always seems to let the men beat each other for a while first. Whut.

Weird. And this is what I mean by “excessive violence” – I can’t believe people would take kids under 14 y/o to see this movie, and I wish that there were more emphasis on character and science fiction and less on vengeance and violence [and hanging around Earth btw].

At least in ST2009 you could take a moral lesson from the bar fight; (a) don’t drink too much; (b) don’t be arrogant [Kirk saying "bring more guys and we'll be even"] and (c) see what happens when you lose impulse control?

209 Disenfranchised1 – I couldn’t agree more. Or you need the Blu-Ray edition of STiD.

Exclusionary of people who don’t want spying on [facebook] and people who can’t afford Blu-Ray players and won’t buy them b/c they don’t have a TV : p

GRRR.

213 Ahmed, Heaven forbid Takei appear in his own guise – like Shatner, he, too, is great at poking fun at his own image – so I’m not sure his presence would work – unless he were a comical sort of character like Cyrano Jones. If he appeared as an alien with his distinctive voice it’d be distracting or amusing, so humor would have to be part of the movie : )

220 BillyBoy – I certainly wasn’t “insisting” that JJ direct STiD. At this site I filled in a poll saying it’d be fine with me if he did, but that’s not the same as “insisting.” I think I’m fairly representative of the older audience who can see Trek’s flaws, but I don’t delight in taking every little thing apart, either.

I feel happy that Trek is back, and successful with a wide variety of people. I devoutly wish it were less violent and less “relentless” in the action department. Beyond that I’m pretty satisfied with the character writing for the most part [McCoy definitely suffered in this film, and I don't "blame Uhura" for it, I "blame" the writers or possibly moreseo whoever insisted on ACTION-ACTION-ACTION!] And I adore this new cast, who are excellent actors every one.

I was NOT in favor of including a “classic villain” (a) because I hate the “one-man villain” concept – it usually involves vengeance or a “Dr Evil” kind of sociopathic behavior – I much prefer a “villain” like the Doomsday Machine or the flying amoebas from Operation: Annihilate – more science-fiction type concepts of a thing that needs to be defeated for the survival of others; (b) It’s boring. I was hoping if they had to go a canon character they’d use someone like Garth of Izar – he was badly served in TOS and would have been a fantastic, brilliant opponent of the Enterprise, possibly on a starship, having been awarded his hero status from some previous action. A “villain” who’s unpredictable, possibly because of incipient insanity … anyway, I didn’t favor one of the “big well-known villains” and was reluctant to hear that they might use a TOS canon character.

For the record, I thought and hoped after ST2009 we’d be seeing the sequel in two years. I grew restive after two and a half years … and grew more and more irritated the longer it took for them to get around to doing STiD. I don’t know for sure where the responsibility lay, but I found it a bit … insulting, I guess, that “Super8” and “Cowboys & Aliens” came out while we Trek fans were swingin’ in the wind. Paramount knew WE’D be back for sure. But Paramount screwed up because the non-Trek folk who saw and liked ST2009 failed to recall Trek. And the marketing in the US was AWFUL. TDKR-type posters for STiD were a bad mistake, with “Star Trek” in tiny words at the bottom. No Trek optimism [we’ll get through this!] … little US publicity. And good ol’ “magic box” concealment by Bad Robot. And the use of Khan, long rumored, and SUCH a bad decision. Meaningless to non-Trek fans and a huge disappointment, fan-service of the worst sort, and laughable to some.

221, Disinvited, I love your post, but have to correct one thing. Koenig did not have an “awful wig” [or perhaps you were referring to Shatner’s which was quite awful] – if you re-watch TOS you’ll not that partway thru Season Two Koenig began wearing an awful COMB-OVER. A really awful one, nearly Trump-like [at least it wasn’t orange]. He began the season with a wig to look like Davey Jones from The Monkees [which I personally thought was cuter than the comb-over, but Koenig objected to it strenuously].

Re the Advanced Technology in AUTrek:

Scotty’s genius innovation was confirmed and detailed by Elder Spock in ST2009. Yes, by golly, Scotty invented TransWarp beaming.

RE: Starfleet’s advanced-over-TOS technology [thought this had been explained already, but here goes]: The USS Kelvin was destroyed in two minutes 25 years earlier, and six months [or so] before the events of STiD, the home planet of the Vulcans, primary founders of the Federation, was DESTROYED in like, 30 minutes. Doesn’t it seem likely that the Federation and Starfleet would have massively invested in advanced technology research for defense, detection and defeat of other possible enemies?

Doesn’t it seem likely that a massive weapons/tech budget would have been funded by the Federation/Starfleet for this? [Where the heck did all that money and personpower come from to build Vengeance? They had 25 years after the Kelvin incident, that’s where.] If nothing else the basic instinct for self-defense would’ve come into play; Admiral Marcus showed us it could turn into a paranoiac impulse to be the destroyer rather than the destroyed.

As Scotty was already in the preliminary stages of ideating Trans-Warp beaming and Elder Spock told him that indeed, in the TOS universe he invented it, being an engineering GEEENius, it proved quite useful in ST2009 and was alas used in STiD. That Starfleet confiscated the formula seems likely to me to prevent its use by enemies, and yep, we saw what happened when it got into the Wrong Hands.

Mothballing Starships because of Trans-Warp Beaming??!!
I don’t see the inevitability of mothballing starships in view of X-warp beaming! Visualize, if you will, Seal Team 6. How would you multiply such a force thousands of times over and insert them into a planetary offense/defense situation? Now visualize an aircraft carrier. Traveling, formidable defense, plus outreach. Then visualize the USS Mercy or the medical ship HOPE. Traveling hospitals. Visualize a C-5A. Traveling source of supplies for the desperate. Also, traveling research and building facilities [resolving invasive new plagues; emergency shelter]. The capacity to evacuate thousands, if your officers quadruple up in their quarters [Vulcan refugees]. I can’t imagine insertion teams such as paratroopers doing all this.

233. Marja - August 24, 2013

227, dswynne, Heh! It took me so long to type my entry you beat me to the defense of starships. But we did hit some different points … signal decay of x-warp beaming was supposedly explained by Khan beaming to several different points on his way to Kronos … but did he arrange these in advance …?

Agreed, a silly concept … maybe we’re stuck with it, IDK, but necessity was the mother of invention to get Scott and Kirk o/b Enterprise in ST2009 ….

234. Marja - August 24, 2013

Keachick, BRAVA!

The risk a consumer takes is that s/he may not like a product. At the movies, you know going in that you can’t return your purchase for something else. Those of us who saw the movie multiple times may have made up for the disgruntled folk who went in hating the idea of the movie before they even saw it ['cos it came from JJ Abrams or 'cos it's AU Trek].

I’m okay with nitpicking plot holes, a long tradition in Trek fandom. But the hate … I’ve spoken with at least three people who avoid this site because of all the hate and disparagement, venom and vitriol. And the arguments that go back and forth b/c one poster, accuses the other of lying or demands an apology or continues trying to convince one who won’t be convinced [CASE CLOSED! has to be the funniest phrase on this board, b/c it never is; "Appeals" go on endlessly].

235. Red Dead Ryan - August 24, 2013

#213.

“George Takei wants to do a Cameo in Star Trek 3.”

Of course he does. He keeps clamoring for his own series and/or cameos in the new movies despite the fact that Sulu just isn’t that popular a character to begin with, and that Takei often displays an air of self-importance that makes him think he’s on the same level as William Shatner or Leonard Nimoy. He isn’t, and I would argue that John Cho is a better actor and a better Sulu than Takei ever was.

236. Ahmed - August 24, 2013

@ 235. Red Dead Ryan – August 24, 2013

“#213.
“George Takei wants to do a Cameo in Star Trek 3.”

Of course he does. He keeps clamoring for his own series and/or cameos in the new movies despite the fact that Sulu just isn’t that popular a character to begin with, and that Takei often displays an air of self-importance that makes him think he’s on the same level as William Shatner or Leonard Nimoy. He isn’t, and I would argue that John Cho is a better actor and a better Sulu than Takei ever was.”

I happen to agree with your view. If they are going to bring someone from TOS, it should be Shatner, not Takei.

John Cho is an amazing actor, he along with Karl Urban deserve more screen time.

237. Keachick - August 24, 2013

It can happen sometimes. I agree with both Red Dead Ryan and Ahmed’s opinions about George Takei and I, too, prefer John Cho’s Mr Sulu.

I did not like George Takei’s Captain Sulu in Star Trek: TUC at all. It was overacted and I even found it a little creepy – not sure why. I think it may have something to do with Takei’s voice. I realize that many people love his voice. It is just that I don’t and never have.

Of course, this is just my own opinion/perception which has probably nothing to do with anything…

238. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

As much as I think Takei is overated, he at least looks like I would expect and older Sulu to look like in Star Trek. Shatner no long looks anything like Captain Kirk, but Takei looks to me pretty much how I would expect and older Sulu to look like.

So actually, I’d prefer Takei over Shatner — by a long shot!

239. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

Just an observation, why do so many people who live in Montreal feel the need to constantly advertise this? I meam, we have “Montreal Paul, Jaz in Montreal, Phobos in Montreal.

Congrats –we’e happy for you all that you all live in Montreal. A beautiful city with awesome food and legal escort services — well done to all of you!

Sheesh! LOL

240. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

@233 “Agreed, a silly concept”

But it’s not a “silly” concept. Given you have warp engines and you given you have transporter technology, it would be relatively easy to do with Star Trek s science.

It is certainly inconvenient though for Star Trek stories, and I wish they had not introduced this. I would recommend for Bob to ignore this in the remainder of nuTrek. Let’s just pretend it never happened, just like we all pretend that we didn’t notice that the Eugenics Wars never happened in the 90’s.

241. Red Shirt Diaries - August 24, 2013

I agree with MJ regarding Takei and Shatner. Consider the following, which builds on some earlier posts of mine.

First, let’s assess Sulu/Takei…

Sulu – TOS
http://marciokenobi.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/lieutenantsulu-2267ad.jpg

George Takei today:

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI4Njg4MTA4OF5BMl5BanBnXkFyZXN1bWU@._V1._SX214_CR0,0,214,314_.jpg

This looks pretty close — pretty much what we would expect and aged Sulu to look like.

Now, let’s asses Kirk/Shatner….

Kirk aged to Old Kirk (say 80+ years old) in The Deadly Years in TOS:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1dJv7jnvcsg/UQsTl7nqNTI/AAAAAAAASxA/TC8le801NaI/s320/The_Deadly_Years_184.jpg

William Shatner today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1237637/Boldly-growing-William-Shatner-reveals-expanding-waistline-beach.html

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2010/08/09/william-shatner-kidney-stone-auction_tjo4J_22975.jpg

These look like completely different people. Shatner today no longer looks like what we would project an older Captain Kirk to look like in the Star Trek fictional world.

So, as can clearly bee seen here, Takei looks like Sulu still, while Shatner no longer looks like Captain Kirk.

The above is an objective assessment, with no sentimentality.

242. Dennis C - August 24, 2013

@217

The ‘homage’ is a big part of what irritated so many fans. The re-boot was already an homage to the original. Seeing the original characters in an alternate universe was supposed to mean new stories and adventures, not an opportunity tp re-imagine stories that had already been told.

We watched again the other night and the first half is a lot of fun and then the second half starts to fall apart.

Here’s hoping for the best in Star Trek XIII (not III, there was already a III).

243. Ahmed - August 24, 2013

@ 239. MJ (The Original). – August 24, 2013

“Just an observation, why do so many people who live in Montreal feel the need to constantly advertise this? I meam, we have “Montreal Paul, Jaz in Montreal, Phobos in Montreal.

Congrats –we’e happy for you all that you all live in Montreal. A beautiful city with awesome food and legal escort services — well done to all of you!”

Actually, Montreal is not that great when you consider how corrupt the local government is. Montreal Mayor Michael Applebaum was arrested & charged with 14 criminal counts !! Not to mention corruption within the construction industry which was exposed by the Charbonneau Commission.

244. Marja - August 24, 2013

241 Dennis C, and I really hope XIII is not as bad as STIII. : )

245. MJ in California USA - August 24, 2013

@242. Interesting. Maybe all these people with the “Montreal commercials” in their names should be saying:

“NAMEgoesHERE in Corrupt Montreal”

or

“Corrupt Montreal NAMEgoesHERE”

:-)

246. MJ in California USA - August 24, 2013

…and we know that one of these people with “Montreal” in their names is obviously, “Montreal Paul.”

Montreal Paul needs to come out now and accept crow, as he promised he would, following being wrong on Khan.

247. Jonboc - August 24, 2013

#212 “##209. Jonboc – August 24, 2013

11. Rewatching it. Noticed Spock, in deciding to save the ship, wisely did NOT use the Trubolift in going to Engineering from the Bridge.”

Lol

Great responses to my list! Just goes to show, things that don’t seem to make sense can make sense if you want them to. Just takes a little effort and creativity…but you have to not want to hate it first.

248. Phobos in Montreal - August 24, 2013

@238
Old Sulu stills looks like Sulu because he is not fat.
If Shatner lost weight you sould see more Kirk.

People let themselves go (weight wise) as they get older.

Look at Markus, I think he is the guy that was in Robocop. I recognized him because he kept the weight off. He looks great even at his age and he played the part of Admiral Markus very well.

249. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

@Ahmed
Would be nice if everyone marked their city. Nice to know where people are because geography does generally determine culture. It helps give a mental image of who the poster is. The inclusion of Mtl was not to brag. I fact if anything I am ashamed of Mtl due to the number of homeless people laying in the streets. So, to not appear pompous, I am removing the Montreal from my name.

250. ME (from Montreal) - August 24, 2013

239. MJ (The Original). – August 24, 2013

What’s with the “The Original” anyway? Are you really “The First” MJ ever? The one and only original MJ?
Sheeesh.
Oh, btw – you obviously haven’t been to Montreal. The is no legal prostitution in Montreal… of any type… including escort agencies. Get your facts straight buddy. But then again, you like to think you know it all.
Really, who cares if someone uses “Montreal” in their name. Does it really bother you THAT much?

251. ME (from Montreal, too) - August 24, 2013

@ 239. MJ (The Original). – August 24, 2013

“Just an observation, why do so many people who live in Montreal feel the need to constantly advertise this? I meam, we have “Montreal Paul, Jaz in Montreal, Phobos in Montreal.”

Really MJ? Do you really have to pick on everyone here? Who cares if someone uses “Montreal” in their name? Does it bother you THAT much?

What’s with “The Original” anyway? Is that necessary?

252. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

@232
I consider STID a masterpiece but if you were to twist my arm and force me to find a fault I would say ‘transwarp beaming’. It would indeed put into question the need for ships. Even the Borg didn’t have transwarp beaming.

253. Me again - August 24, 2013

239. MJ (The Original). – August 24, 2013
Just an observation, why do so many people who live in Montreal feel the need to constantly advertise this? I meam, we have “Montreal Paul, Jaz in Montreal, Phobos in Montreal.

Congrats –we’e happy for you all that you all live in Montreal. A beautiful city with awesome food and legal escort services — well done to all of you!

Sheesh! LOL

What’s the big deal, MJ? Does it bother you THAT much that they use “Montreal” in their name? Why do you have (The Original) in your name? Is it really necessary? Everyone knows who you are just by what you spew.

254. Me again - August 24, 2013

Sorry for the duplicate posts… they were appearing. My apologies on that. Carry on.

255. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

Another little fault is the lack of dome shape effects to show shields, the absence of straight phasers and photon torpodoes. Also, engineering contains too many parts like in Transformers. A traditional TNG style warp core would be nice. The beer factory engineering is… anyway I focus on the story and the characters. But yeah engineering sucks, we all know it.

256. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

246. MJ in California USA – August 24, 2013

…and we know that one of these people with “Montreal” in their names is obviously, “Montreal Paul.”

Hey MJ, I don’t think so. They were all posting on here at the same time at one point. I think they are all different people. But I think I read that “montreal paul” leaving this message board to go to a different Star Trek one.

257. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

I wonder how ST3 is going to be able to top ST2. Everybody’s acting was so top notch I fear they will all jump the shark in ST3.

How are they going to top the intensity of the Kirk death scene, Khan’s riveting voice and passion. The Spock moments were all great.
I would be ****ing bricks if I were the writers (or the actors) having to top their STID performances.

I do think however that ST3 (even if it is just moderately good) will pull in dramatic gains from the international box office. STID ticket sales showed that the international market is opening up to Star Trek. The next one is going to be huge in my opinion.

258. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

As for SDID, I thought it was ok. Not my favorite. Would rank it as 5th on my list. I just didn’t like the way they cut and pasted dialogue from TWOK – even word for word. Nick Mayer should have gotten a writing credit! lol.

John Harrison was a good enough character without making him “Khan” – it was a wasted opportunity in my opinion.

It was beautifully shot, the actors were great, the photography was awesome. But it just lacked something for me. And I am a big fan of Trek 2009. Oh well, let’s hope the next one takes a different and original direction.

259. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

242. Dennis C – August 24, 2013
The ‘homage’ is a big part of what irritated so many fans. The re-boot was already an homage to the original. Seeing the original characters in an alternate universe was supposed to mean new stories and adventures, not an opportunity to re-imagine stories that had already been told.

I agree completely with you on that. Well said!

260. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

Hey, how come my posts disappeared? I wasn’t swearing or flaming or anything. Very bizarre.

261. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

And now they are back. I think I have entered The Twilight Zone! LoL

262. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

@260

Captain, come alone to the corner of 5th and L, bring $200 cash, and I will give you an envelope which has a URL where you can find your lost posts. Do not report this to the police or I will destroy the posts forever.

263. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

262. MJ (The Original). – August 24, 2013

LOL. They are probably with my lost socks from the dryer!

264. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

@Captain Ransom.
I find it intriguing you rank it only 5th. So many great moments:
– Volcano scene = breathtaking. Cool white aliens. Dramatic warp out.
– [Khan] Ignore me Kirk and you will get everyone on this ship killed! … MARRRRCUS used me! Is there anything you would not do for your family Kirk. — My NAME is Khan… You Mr. Spock can’t even break a rule, let alone one”
– “Spock I’m afraid, help me not be. How do you choose to not feel? [Spock] I do not know, right now I am failing..” (I’m sure half the crowd cries every time – amazingly powerful moment).

I can almost quote the whole movie as being excellent liners or moments ( which is a testament to its awesome-ness) .

265. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

@253. Hey “Me again.” You act so familiar like you know me and have been here for some time. Why not stop the pretend name and tell us your regular name here.

What the hiding? Come on out and tell us which regular poster you really are here?

266. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

My apologies to anyone who took offense to my Montreal comments.

I am trying to “smoke out” Montreal Paul, who conveinantlyh disappeated right after insisting very aggressively for an entire year that the few of us who said Khan was the villain were dead wrong. He even pledged he would eat crow and apologize if he was proven right.

So yea, I am disappointed that whoever this Montreal Paul guy is, that he has neither the honor nor integrity to show himself here.

BTW, I have been to Montreal, and had a fine time there. Great food and scenery.

267. Red Dead Ryan - August 24, 2013

I wouldn’t ne surprised if Montreal_Paul has taken up a new name to troll here, and also to avoid eating crow about the Khan prediction.

As for Montreal itself, corruption has gotten so bad, its now merely a Hab-it.*

*Hockey fans will get the reference, hee hee!

268. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

266. MJ (The Original). – August 24, 2013

“smoked out” in reference to Montreal Smoked Meat? ha ha!

I have seen montreal paul post on Trek Web occasionally in the past few months.

269. Red Dead Ryan - August 24, 2013

Montreal_Paul had said in January that he’d take a six month sabbatical from this site and then come back…..

……all I’m hearing are crickets, and all I saw was a tumbleweed roll past here…..

As for Montreal, never been there. Seems like a nice place but with some real problematic politicians who need to do serious time in prison.

I have been to France, that was about fifteeen years ago. Nice country. I visited England on the same vacation.

Twenty-five years ago I visited Calgary, as well as the Badlands. The Tyrell Museum was great. A lot of dinosaur bones there.

270. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

264. Phobos in City X – August 24, 2013

I posted this but it didn’t appear again. So I’m sorry it this pops up as a double post.

Here’s my list:

1- TWOK
2 – TUC
3 – TREK 2009
4 – First Contact
5 – STID
… and the others follow…

The reason I ranked it as #5 is because of the cut & paste dialogue, sloppy writing and the “already seen” scenes.

271. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

@270 Fair enough.

Mine are:
1- STID
2- TREK 2009
3- First Contact
4- Nemesis
5- Undiscovered Country
6- Generations
7- TWOK
6- Insurrection
7- ST 3 Search for Spock
8- ST IV Whales
9- ST V Sybok
10- ST 1 Vger.

272. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

@269 ” The Tyrell Museum was great. ”

Was that the place that had the motto, “Better Human than Human.”

I may be going to Vancouver in September. You are a ways from there though, on Victoria Island, right?

273. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

Mine:

First — the ones I like a lot, in order
ST 2009
ST III Search for Spock
ST IV Whales
ST II Khan
STID
ST-TMP
First Contact
ST-TUC
— now the dogs, in order
Nemesis
Generations
STV
Insurrection

274. steve - August 24, 2013

something i feel was out of whack with into darkness was the spock and kirk friendship
in TOS spock and kirk werent really that close yet, they didnt truly become very close till we got into the movies, timeline wise woulda been almoat 15 yrs for them ( if i remember the timeline from the movies)
so i dont think that way back before the 5 yr mission began that either of them would lay down there life for the other . not yet.

other things too, all though i really like chris pine in the role. scenes like the elevator with uhura talking about her and spocks relationship and them fighting , saying “my gods whats that even like? ‘
just dont see shatner being that teenager-ish about it , u know?

275. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

271. Phobos in City X – August 24, 2013

The rest of my list goes like this:

6 – TSFS
7 – TFF
8 – Generations
9 – TVH
10 – TMP
11 – Insurrection
12 – Nemesis

Just realized that my top 5 are a mix of all 3 generations of movies.
10 -

276. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

@274. Hmm, for me, in TOS, the 1st episode of Season 2, Amok Time, represented the point and which Kirk and Spock really became friends.

And this continues then through TOS. A great example of this in Season 3 is the Tholian Web episode — we see there how Spock and Kirk’s friendship is now fully realized.

So I think you might want to go back and watch some of the Season 2 and 3 episodes again. You sound like you are mainly thinking about Season 1 perhaps???

277. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

@274
The elevator scene is one of the theatre crowd favorites. I find it good also. It is funny because Kirk and Uhura find common ground in understanding that Spock with his logical mind always wins arguments and thus is hard to deal with at times. And when the doors open it’s even more funny because the look on Spock’s face is one of innocence. lol It’s so well done.

278. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

276. MJ (The Original). – August 24, 2013

For me, City on the Edge of Forever from season 1 represented the starting point of their friendship. But in Amok Time, it solidified.

279. MJ (The Original). - August 24, 2013

@278. I agree.

280. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

There was a bit of writing proscratination with STID.
Has boborci started writing yet? You have to beat the iron while it’s hot.

I think Paramount wants ST3 out faster because production is supposed to start in 2014 (I read that online).

281. Buzz Cagney - August 24, 2013

oh dear, Pegg is upset that they made a poor movie then. Good, he should be.
As a fan himself he really should understand where the problems are with it., because until they do they are going to end up making another weak offering.
That said, and I say this as no particular fan of Pegg as Scott, I did enjoy his performance and what the writers gave him to do.
His pleading with Kirk not to fire the torpedoes was strong stuff and the drunken ‘phone’ call was lol funny.

The Honest Trailer was pretty much straight on the money- and very funny!

282. Captain Ransom - August 24, 2013

280. Phobos in City X – August 24, 2013

I just hope they do a better job writing the next one. The did a great job with Trek 09 but dropped the ball in the writing dept with STID. What was the point of the Carol Marcus character anyway? Her character served no purpose to move the story along. And as much as I appreciate a hot woman, what point did the bra & panties scene serve?

283. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

Carol and Kirk had a child named David in the original timeline. And Carol Marcus was in TWOK, so I guess to remain somewhat consistent they added her to STID. The bra and panties scene was to
a) show Kirk as a womanizer
b) cause a public controversy to increase STID visibilityticket sales.

I agree though that her integration into the story is weak. But she did have a few good moments and added to the movie.

284. Phobos in City X - August 24, 2013

Hey by the way, after STID this afternoon I went to the IMAX to see Elysium. Matt Damon still has his touch. Good movie. Was nice to see IMAX in 2D for a change, without glasses.

note1: STID is only showing in 1 theatre now in all of Montreal. The old Forum. Hall #10. But it is a nicer bigger hall than #11 in ealier weeks. I don’t know how many more weeks they will show STID so if anyone has not gone yet, it’s now or never.

note2: Superman is out of theatres here, so STID outlived Superman even through STID started well before.

285. David B - August 25, 2013

While we’re doing lists:
Of the franchise ones I have seen
Man Of Steel
Star Trek Into Darkness
Iron Man 3

Star Trek List
ST2 WOK
ST4 TVH
ST1 TMP
ST FC
ST 2009
ST 3 SFS
ST Generations
ST6 TUC
ST5 TFF
ST Nemesis
ST Into Darkness
ST Insurrection

286. David B - August 25, 2013

Comments on my own list.

Not a fan of STID, I didn’t think there was a lot good to remember, the rehashing of Kirk Spock dialogue was annoying. It would have been good if they kept the Khan and Kirk on the same side a bit longer, that’s the sort of different perspective I was looking for. What if in the alt universe they are on the same side or somehow this Kirk managed to make Khan a hero rather than a villain that’s what we should be doing.

Other films

Almost put ST5 above ST6. 6 feels like the actors are on a Star Trek set, something about the way it’s filmed just looks to tv like, also find the music dull after a while.
Still like Motion Picture, different kind of film.

I think that’s what I would have done if I were making the movies, look at the different types of episodes we have, and do each film as a different type with an underlying thread running through it that has a beginning a middle and an end to it.

Think Doomsday Machine to Empath to Catspaw all different.

If after these Star Wars versions are done they could get the likes of Christopher Nolan or Sam Mendes you could have films like Dark Knight and Skyfall and really get to the inner depths of Star Trek itself.

287. Uncle Protein - August 25, 2013

#282

But everybody LOVES bra’s and panties!

288. Dom - August 25, 2013

Well, I liked the film, although that spoof trailer was spot-on!

I do want to see the next Trek do its own thing though: no Klingons, no old Spock, far away from the Starfleet and the Federation, going where no man has gone before.

Sadly, too many long-running franchises have become self-aware. We’ve seen it with Bond and with Doctor Who and Star Trek’s suffered from it for years, not at all helped by the vain pomposity of the ‘Church of Roddenberry’ mob of TNG fans who think the guy was some sort of prophet rather than a reasonably talented writer and producer.

I just want a Star Trek film, not a film about Star Trek.

289. NLTrek - August 25, 2013

I just watched ID for the first time last evening and I enjoyed it. Sure, the plot was a mess and had more holes than swiss cheese but the damn movie was fun to watch and I thought the visuals were outstanding.

As for the “It’s not TOS” or “It’s not Rodenberry” comments; In TOS they were always doing things that didn’t make any sense and any of the holes or flaws you spot in this movie probably popped up in a few episodes. It wasn’t till TNG that everything had to be technically correct (which incites other types of criticism from fans).

As for Rodenberry, he handed over his baby to Berman and the studios. Had his fun, made his money, and was ready to leave it to others. Though the new series of films don’t look Trekish to the purists I think Rodenberry would have been quite happy to give them a thumbs up and watch the royalty checks roll in!

290. stephen - August 25, 2013

A TV miniseries about the making of TOS would be interesting.

TOS had 79 episodes; 79 movies by 79 different writers and directors would be nice. Okay, some of the episodes shouldn’t be remade. But even “The Alternative Factor” had possibilities with those superpowers Lazarus had. Errand of Mercy could be next.

Amok Time doesn’t need to be remade but it’s a possibility too.

Who here has heard of the early fanfiction writers like Jean Lorrah and the Kraith series?

291. crazydaystrom - August 25, 2013

274. steve
“other things too, all though i really like chris pine in the role. scenes like the elevator with uhura talking about her and spocks relationship and them fighting , saying “my gods whats that even like? ‘
just dont see shatner being that teenager-ish about it , u know?”
__________

I agree 100% Steve. While that scene did make me smile each time I saw it, it’s an example of what many see as the “90210-ing” of Star Trek. It WAS very teenager-ish. Cute and, as I said, made me smile but could you imagine, say, the captain of a flagship of the US Navy having a conversation of that tenor with his communications officer. Maybe, I’ve never been in the military. But I have been to high school and college and have a son who has as well and that sort of dialogue is what you would hear there.

And interestingly enough speaking of turbo lift scenes and Amok Time, as some have been, one of my favorite scenes in all Treks is the turbo lift scene in AT where Spock explains why Kirk can accompany him to Vulcan for the ceremony even though Kirk is non-Vulcan : that Spock is permitted to bring his closest friends. What gets me EVERY TIME about that scene is Spock then saying “I also request McCoy.” And McCoy’s “I would be honored sir.” response. Fans always talk about Amok Time as showing the bond of friendship between Kirk and Spock but that scene and those few simple lines more than any other moments in TOS showed the deep and genuine resect and affection between Spock and McCoy. Great stuff. I didn’t cry when Spock died in TWOK. And certainly did not either time Kirk died. But that scene in AT has more than a few times.

The only time the Bad Robot Treks have ever made come close to making me feel that way was George Kirk’s death at the climax of the Kelvin scene in ST09. Which was one of several reasons I had such high hopes for STID. The Kelvin scene really was a brilliant introduction to new Star Trek. Nicely referential to old Trek but with ‘new’ characters. And it was wonderfully emotional. And not a joke or wink at the audience. For me the new Treks have never again reached that peak of emotional maturity. Kiel’s death and Spock’s screaming Khan in STID failed for me because it was just too derivatively distracting. My humble opinion.

I do understand that lines like “…what’s that even like?” and “…only have sex with farm animals.” are some of the reasons Star Trek is now appealing to people who’ve never been fans before. But…

:-(

292. crazydaystrom - August 25, 2013

*That scene in AT has made me (cry) more than a few times.*

293. Hugh Hoyland - August 25, 2013

A favorite’s list of the Star Trek movies is difficult for me to do, if for any reason because of nostalgia. My first Trek movie experience happened when I was 9. My dad took me to see Star Trek: The Motion Picture (fond memories for sure :])

And each one is special in its own way, and I can watch em all easily, again and again. But this is how I would rank them subjectively right now. I could change my mind later of course. Art is very subjective and in reality I love em all.

1. STID
2. Star Trek
3. Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan
4. Star Trek 4: The voyage home
5. Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock
6. Star Trek: The motion picture (the most big cinematic looking of the original films, amazing to look at, even if the story plodded along at times)
7. Star Trek 5: The final frontier (best character moments between the “trio” of any of the films IMO)
8. Star Trek 6: The undiscovered country (solid movie, great theme’s could have easlily been Star Trek 5, not sure if it holds up as a deserved BIG send off for such iconic characters though).
9. Star Trek: First contact
10. Star Trek insurection (I know, I know, but IMO had a very solid theme of how many people does it take for it to finally NOT be okay for a government to abuse people? 100? 500? 1000? ect.)
11. Star Trek Generations
12. Star Trek Nemesis

294. Red Dead Ryan - August 25, 2013

MJ,

I live in Victoria, which is located on Vancouver Island, the big island off the west coast of Canada. Vancouver is on the mainland, and just a couple of hours (on a ferry ride) away from where I live.

Victoria Island is a much bigger island up in the Arctic, shared by the Northwest Territories and Nunavut.

295. Ahmed - August 25, 2013

My favorite Star Trek movies from the best to the not so good IMO:

1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
2. Star Trek IV: The voyage home
3. Star Trek: First Contact
4. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
5. Star Trek
6. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
7. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
8. Star Trek Generations
9. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
10. Star Trek: Insurrection
11. Star Trek Into Darkness
12. Star Trek Nemesis

296. PaulB - August 25, 2013

Here’s my list:

1. TWOK
2. TMP
3. ST 2009
4. ST3
5. ST4
6. First Contact
7. ST6
8. Generations
9. Insurrection
10. Into Darkness
11. Nemesis
12. ST5

(STID might drop to last because it’s the only Trek film ever to make me rethink being a Trekkie. It’s just not to my taste. But it’s a better movie than ST5 and Nemesis, no doubt.)

297. Hugh Hoyland - August 25, 2013

Again favorites are subjective and theres really no wrong or right about em IMO. And people change their minds all the time. So their favorites list may change to.

I rank Star Trek into Darkness my favorite over all because, at least to me, it’s a complete package as far as a Trek movie goes. It looks fantastic just as a film, cinematic/IMAX. State of the art FX, ILM doing a great job again.

And most important, the themes. Hunting down a federation citizen without due process. A military commander believing he’s got to be “in charge” at all cost or “things will go bad” (Thats straight out of TOS). Being willing to stand up to such tyranny. Life/death, taking responsibility ect. It reminds me the most of TOS. And thats why its my favorite right now.

As far as the next one goes, who knows, the guys may go in a totally different direction and leave out the social/political themes and move towards a more “esoteric” story like TMP. And I may like it even better! (or not):]

298. Hugh Hoyland - August 25, 2013

And I will say maybe I shouldnt have used the phrases of social/political. The ideas in STID are about freedom vs tyranny, and thats above terms like social/political, but you get my point.

299. Dswynne - August 25, 2013

@281: Buzz Cagney sucks!

—–

Now you know how Peggy feels when getting unwarranted attacks.

300. Keachick (from Manukau, Ak, NZ) - August 25, 2013

Wow, you guys!

The Honest Trailer is rubbish – inaccurate and unfunny. Perhaps it is the commentator’s horrible, sneering voice but YUK!

MJ – Bitching and sneering about the fact that a poster uses the name of the city they live as part of their pseudonym in order to what? Just when I start to feel some respect and liking for you, you do this. What is the matter with you? I know you apologized, but why go there in the first place?

Bill Shatner is prime Kirk in his later years. Actually little is known of what prime Kirk got up to in his later years, except that he yearned to be back on the Enterprise at times. Kirk would be as capable as anyone of “letting himself go” – in TWOK, he was starting to do just that when Bones stepped in and told Kirk not to treat his birthday like a funeral…

William Shatner always had a battle with an expanding waistline, which was one of the reasons he was pounding the studio backlots as he tried to jog off any extra weight – at age 34/35. Meanwhile, the naturally skinny ones like George Takei were sitting around bitching about him behind his back…

Paradoxically, Chris Pine has a body type more akin to Leonard Nimoy’s unlike Zachary Quinto…so at least we can expect Chris Pine to look like the older alternate Captain Kirk, but not necessarily the alternate Quinto/Spock. Oh dear…what to do?

Oh and ps – Manukau, Auckland, not only has the most racially and culturally diverse population probably to be found anywhere on the planet but unfortunately has NZ’s highest crime rates. However, fortunately, I, my family, friends, acquaintances, neighbours, AFAIK, have never been subject to robbery, vandalism, rape, assault, mugging… 10 minutes drive east of my home is some of the loveliest scenic “eye candy”, 10 minutes drive west is Auckland Domestic/Int’l Airport, 5 minutes drive is a road better known as Hookers’ Corner. Not sure what the allure is but it’s always been like that…Retailers have the task of clearing away the not so savoury evidence in the morning… This is my city of residence for almost 17 years. It was not my first choice – good old economic realities can be a bitch at times, but so far so good. There is much to enjoy and much to protect and nurture.

Perhaps Montreal may have similar associations for this other poster.

301. TrekMadeMeFat - August 25, 2013

1. Star Trek Into Darkness

2. the rest of them, changing around in order depending on my mood.

302. Disinvited - August 25, 2013

#204. MJ (The Original). – August 23, 2013

I blame it on the used Jacqueline Susann Edition Universal Translator Paramount got at a Lincoln Enterprises White Elephant sale.

303. Marja [in Flori-DUH] - August 25, 2013

248 Phobos Wherever You Are, I recall hearing or reading somewhere that Shatner was on some kind of medication to control a health issue. Some meds, such as steroids used for repeat infections or pain, cause weight gain/bloating.

Dude, I’d mark my city, but I’m not from this area originally. I wouldn’t want people to think I’m a stereotypical [whatev] from [wherever] …

250 ME, Well, MJ’s not the only one, but he was the first to this board. I was gonna use it but it was taken!

252 Phobos, X-warp beaming does not obviate the need for starships [see posts #227 dswynne and #232 last couple of paragraphs, Yours Truly].

274 steve, The AU was established to alter the characters a bit and have things be different. Actually at this time in their lives, Kirk and Spock had not yet met. Kirk was serving on another ship and Spock was serving with Pike on the Enterprise. No matter what happened in STiD [and I hope all the “echoes” will stop with the next movie], things are supposed to be different in this timeline.

I didn’t really see the turbolift bit as teenager like, but as Uhura tried to hint, it wasn’t really appropriate for him to discuss her relationship … it was a great human moment though, and personally I loved “Sometimes I’d like to rip his [pause] bangs off his head” : )

278 Ransom; and MJ – I count the beginning of Kirk and Spock’s friendship toward the end of “This Side of Paradise” when Kirk has to make Spock angry enough to get rid of the spores. Kirk calls out a lot of things that wouldn’t have been in Spock’s service record – and in the time after, as they work together to get the crew back, there’s a new solidity to their professional comradeship. Devil in the Dark and Errand of Mercy saw them working together with a lot more concern on both sides. Then, City… and Spock watching the drawing down of Kirk’s days with Edith Keeler – you could see Spock’s deep compassion for his friend by that time. [But it’s friendship, brotherhood, not eros. IMHO.]

Phobos, I agree with just about everything you’ve said here!

290 Stephen, When that $150 [for the 3-book set] series of Making of TOS books is finished, I’m quite sure History or some other channel will do a series on it : ) Also good for 50th anniversary.

I haven’t just heard of Jean Lorrah, I have a couple of her zines. I remember “Night of the Twin Moons” with fondness. Jaqueline Lichtenberg’s “Kraith,” however, had more “in-universe” rules and backstory than TNG did after 7 seasons! It also didn’t appeal for other reasons.

304. Keachick - August 25, 2013

#301 – That’s interesting. That is how I rate the movies – they keep changing order depending on my mood.

1. Star Trek Into Darkness (probably because it is the latest and I have not seen it nearly enough times – four times is just not enough. I need to see Pine/Kirk be so animated and excited about the possibility of going on an exploratory mission; Kirk telling Spock to be captain of the Enterprise because he does not know what he is supposed to do, only what he can do; Uhura and Kirk confronting Spock and Spock beginning to understand and trust that Uhura (and Kirk) may actually be his friends (scene on shuttlecraft – so poignant, so good); etc etc etc)

2. Star Trek (Nero was a reasonably good adversary but a bit of a pain, then again, people wanting to do bad things tend to bore me some)

3. The Voyage Home
4. First Contact
5. TWOK
6. Insurrection
7. The Motion Picture
8. Generations
9. Search for Spock
10. TUC
11. The Final Frontier
12. Nemesis (I actually liked Tom Hardy’s Shinzon)

305. Keachick - August 25, 2013

It is difficult to figure which movies go further up the list in order to preference. I prefer the Final Frontier over TUC in terms of how the characters were shown, but TUC had better pacing and was more exciting. I hated what the writers did to the main characters in TUC – just awful.

306. Jonboc - August 25, 2013

My ranking of Trek movies…

#1. Wrath of Khan. over-rated but still the best of the lot.
2. Final Frontier. yep…you read it right…the characters finally seemed like the crew from TOS…Kirk, Spock and McCoy. That’s what it’s all about…not how many decks are in the turbo lift. Also enjoyed Shatner’s cinematic frame compositions and direction. De Kelley’s tour de force.
3. Search for Spock. The mind meld between Sarek and Kirk, alone, is worth the price of admission.
4. The Undiscovered Country. An exciting, engaging final mission…Christopher Plummer is superb and Spock’s make-up…very reminiscent of TOS season 1, never looked better.
5. The Motion Picture: Director’s cut. better pacing…tighter editing and finished sound effects make this a better package overall. Can only hope for bluray…someday.
6. The Voyage Home. Some much needed comic relief…delivered flawlessly.
7. The Motion Picture: Theatrical Cut. On bluray, absolutely gorgeous. Even the neutral uniforms come to life…a truly unique and unexplored chapter in the Trek universe.
8. Trek 2009. Superior in so many ways to some of the other movies…but the original cast IS, after all, the original cast. They will always best the newer films on that basis alone.
9. Trek Into Darkness. A worthy follow-up to the re-imagined 2009 Trek.

307. Blue Thunder - August 25, 2013

Here is how I rate the movies –

1. The Motion Picture
2. The Wrath Of Khan
3. The Search For Spock
4. The Voyage Home
5. The Final Frontier
6. The Undiscovered Country
7. The Enterprise-B(first half)of Generations
8. Of Gods And Men
9. Star Trek
10. Into Darkness

And before anyone says anything different about Of Gods And Men(due to it being a fan film), David Gerrold and D.C. Fontana once stated on The Animated Series documentary, that if it has an actor or actress from the original series, it is canon.

Granted I don’t like Sky Conway and anything about him, but Of Gods And Men was an entertaining fan film with James Cawley, Alan Ruck, Nichelle Nichols, Walter Koenig, Grace Lee Whitney, Lawrence Montaigne, Herbert Jefferson, Jr, and Celeste Yarnell.

The only downside was that Garrett Wang, and others from DS9 and Voyager were in it. Let alone the fact that different actors played Charlie ‘X’ Evans and Gary Mitchell.

It would have been better if Gary Lockwood and Robert Walker, Jr had reprised their roles.

Nevertheless, it is what it is.

Oh, well. It could have been worse.

308. Rick - August 25, 2013

“(scene on shuttlecraft – so poignant, so good); etc etc etc)”

One of the few people I’ve ever heard who would describe that scene like that. It was hardly poignant, it showed that Uhura couldn’t keep her professionalism in check during a very serious mission. It also showed Kirk as a weak Captain who didn’t stand firmly when he told her and Spock to save it for later. The way she brushed off Kirk when he attempted to shut them up was ridiculous, and the whole scene was foolish. I enjoyed STID but I would call that scene laughable if it didn’t make me so angry. Poignant…yea right. Hardly Star Trek worthy. It’s stuff like this that always reminds me why Spock and Uhura together was such a mistake from the get go.

Are you angry that the Honest Trailer pointed out a stupid scene that everyone else noticed as well?

309. Marja [in the city-which-must-not-be-named] - August 25, 2013

274 steve, [clarification] The AU was established to alter the characters a bit and have things be different. Actually at this time in their lives in TOS, Kirk and Spock had not yet met.

Crazy Daystrom,Re: The Kirk and Uhura Turbolift Scene: While that scene did make me smile … it WAS very teenager-ish. Could you imagine, say, the captain of a flagship of the US Navy having a conversation of that tenor with his communications officer. Maybe, I’ve never been in the military. But I have been to high school and college and have a son who has as well and that sort of dialogue is what you would hear there. Well, yeah, but. Recast Kirk’s sentence to “So you two are having a problems?” (because a captain needs to stay apprised of how his crew is doing) then after Uhura’s dialogue Kirk says VERY drily, “What’s THAT like.” Long look of solidarity, support from Kirk, exeunt. No “ears burning” but “CDR Spock, a moment?” With a scene in the captain’s office, “Commander, is there anything you need to tell me that might affect the work environment on the Bridge?” But … it is written to appeal to people of that college-age group, and you and I both found it smile-worthy, so what the hell.
And interestingly enough speaking of turbo lift scenes and Amok Time, as some have been, one of my favorite scenes in all Treks is the turbo lift scene in AT where Spock explains why Kirk can accompany him to Vulcan for the ceremony even though Kirk is non-Vulcan : that Spock is permitted to bring his closest friends. What gets me EVERY TIME about that scene is Spock then saying “I also request McCoy.” And McCoy’s “I would be honored sir.” response. It doesn’t bring me to tears, but I love that scene too, partly b/c it shows McCoy is such a Southern gentleman and appreciates Spock’s gesture as a friend; and that Spock asks him along had put the lie to their usual verbal battles. I agree with you about George Kirk’s death scene in ST2009. My god, I almost cry every time I see it, I did cry the first three times. Beautifully written, acted, directed and musically scored.

297 Hugh H, What you liked about STiD: the themes. Hunting down a federation citizen without due process. A military commander believing he’s got to be “in charge” at all cost or “things will go bad” (Thats straight out of TOS). Being willing to stand up to such tyranny. Life/death, taking responsibility ect. It reminds me the most of TOS. I agree with this. I regret, though, that those themes got a little lost in all the relentless action. Some here think the film’s script was too rife with “crazy conspiracy theories” but having seen some of the same in the US Govt and in TOS I can’t really dispute the movie’s viewpoint. What seemed particularly TOS-like was Spock’s objection to the “huntin’ down and killin’” mission, and his face before, and as, Kirk decides he’s returning Khan to Earth for trial. What I found UN-TOS-like was the amped up violence. I realize Spock, in his fight with Khan was “breaking bone” in defiance of Khan’s earlier words to him, but … UGH.

300 Keachick, Well, the body type issue strikes me as follows: Quinto gained 15 pounds for STiD and built a ton of muscle – alas, in his midsection, which showed. Pine is also naturally long and lean [and also gained weight for STiD’s endless fight scenes]. Both men are tall and lean by nature, but Quinto’s height is more in his legs, and he’s a little short-waisted c/w Pine, who’s more evenly [leg/torso] proportioned. The reason I finally noticed this difference was because I kept bugging over the difference in the cuts of their dress uniform jackets. Pine looks glorious in his because his back is a couple of inches longer than Quinto’s, whereas Quinto looks a tad … well, thick, in his jacket.

So I think [geez I HOPE] that Quinto may retain abt 5-10 pounds of the weight, but will work the inches down a little further thru yoga and workouts … Yikes, the idea of a “thick” Spock! I cannae like it ….

We’re just really concerned about their health, of course, aren’t we Rose? ; )

310. Marja [in the city-which-must-not-be-named] - August 25, 2013

RedDead, you LUCKY DOG! You live in probably one of the most beautiful areas of North America.

311. Keachick - August 25, 2013

I agree about the characterization in Star Trek V. I loved it. I also love the opening scenes showing an older Kirk free climbing El Capitane(?) – and the MUSIC! Then there were those classic lines from Spock and McCoy – LOL (paraphrasing) –

Spock: Were we having a good time?
McCoy: Oh God, I liked him better before he died.

I still crack up laughing just thinking about that scene – classic stuff…:)

312. K-7 - August 25, 2013

#300 “MJ – Bitching and sneering about the fact that a poster uses the name of the city they live as part of their pseudonym in order to what? Just when I start to feel some respect and liking for you, you do this. What is the matter with you? I know you apologized, but why go there in the first place?”

So you have never put your foot in your mouth here then, right? ;-)

313. Ahmed - August 25, 2013

@ 300. Keachick (from Manukau, Ak, NZ) – August 25, 2013

“MJ – Bitching and sneering about the fact that a poster uses the name of the city they live as part of their pseudonym in order to what? Just when I start to feel some respect and liking for you, you do this. What is the matter with you? I know you apologized, but why go there in the first place?”

MJ was simply asking a question, he wasn’t “Bitching and sneering”.

314. Keachick - August 25, 2013

“So I think [geez I HOPE] that Quinto may retain abt 5-10 pounds of the weight, but will work the inches down a little further thru yoga and workouts … Yikes, the idea of a “thick” Spock! I cannae like it ….
We’re just really concerned about their health, of course, aren’t we Rose? ; )”

Yes, indeed, Marja. It is just about the health (of CP and ZQ) and has absolutely nothing to do the maintenance of their sexy good looks…:)

Of course, this comes back to the point I have been trying to make ever since I came to this site three years ago, when I read about how people were (and still are) criticizing William Shatner weight gains.

Hopefully, with the right diet, exercise and a lifestyle which brings Zachary Quinto genuine fulfillment and contentment, he will not start gaining (too much) weight and find it increasingly difficult to lose such weight as he gets older, but we do not know if that might not be the case, irrespective of how he may live his life. We don’t know what his genetic inheritance is. Unfortunately, Quinto’s father died when he was 7 years old, so we can’t look for clues there. I have read differing accounts of what caused Quinto senior’s death – one – he was killed in a car accident and another – a heart attack. I do not know which is correct.

All we can do is hope that Zachary Quinto will look a cool, healthy, distinguished looking man in 20/30 years time (and, in all probability, a slightly heavier looking alternate universe Spock).

On the other hand, we do have a clue as to how Chris Pine’s Kirk may look in 20/30 years time. The last photo I saw of the 72 year old Robert Pine was that of a tall, slim, distinguished looking man with thin white hair….hmmm

Gotta love the casting here…

315. Keachick - August 25, 2013

#308 – Yes, that scene was one of the most important and defining scenes in the movie and it was poignant. Maybe, one day, some of you may understand…

I was not angry because of Honest Trailers comments re that scene. It was nothing new, so totally predictable, unoriginal and boorish, just like the rest of the video. Honest Trailers take on STID was ALL crap.

As far as Star Trek TOS is concerned, at times it was hard to determine when the main characters were supposed to be on duty or not on duty. There were scenes where Kirk (presumably still on duty) would go to sickbay to discuss misgivings and be offered a Saurian brandy by Dr McCoy. Of course, prime Kirk was seen kissing a visitor to the Enterprise in one TOS scene…Then there were all those “discussions”,ON THE BRIDGE of the Enterprise no less, between Dr McCoy and Spock (with the Captain, Kirk often sitting in the middle, between them, literally) where Spock and McCoy would argue with each other when they did not agree about how the other perceived a situation, with Spock often being called a “green-blooded Vulcan” in a sarcastic, insulting manner by Dr McCoy. Such conversations occurred while all were supposed to be on duty and in front of other bridge crew. In the alternate Star Trek universe, apparently similar conduct has taken place, with an Urban/McCoy being pissed off with this alternate Quinto/Spock and referring to this Spock as a “green-blooded hobgoblin”, ON THE BRIDGE of the Enterprise, although, in this scene, he muttered the words which meant that few, if any of the bridge crew, heard his description, unlike what often occurred on prime TOS bridge.

I don’t know about you, but I would not call that “professional conduct”, yet it is and has always been a part of the Star Trek prime universe and it appears to be also part of this alternate universe as well.

In STID, what conversation that took place between Kirk, Spock and Uhura on the shuttlecraft was for viewers’ eyes and ears only. (I’m not sure where the two redshirt/security officers were). The private conversation did not slow down their arrival to Kronos nor did it seem to impair either Kirk, Spock, or Uhura’s competency in carrying out their mission.

I cannot believe how this scene has received so much criticism from so many and how so many people have totally missed the point and relevance of that scene. Holy moly. Then again, so much of this movie has become the object of irrational anger and the silliest of criticisms.

316. Keachick - August 25, 2013

I meant to write “…prime Kirk was seen kissing a visitor to the Enterprise in one TOS scene ON THE BRIDGE, in front of bridge crew…”

317. JakartaTrek - August 25, 2013

My list:

1. The Wrath of Khan
2. The Voyage Home
3. First Contact
4. The Undiscovered Country
5. Star Trek Into Darkness
6. The Search for Spock
7. Star Trek (2009)
8. Nemesis
9. The Motion Picture
10. Generations
11. The Final Frontier
12. Insurrection

I dont put “Galaxy Quest” on my list because it just will make me an idiot Trekkie or insult another Trek films… :-(

318. Red Dead Ryan - August 25, 2013

#310.

“RedDead, you LUCKY DOG! You live in probably one of the most beautiful areas of North America.”

Aww. thanks! You’re absolutely right! Right now, in the summer, when we get several months of nothing but sunshine, it feels like paradise!

ARF!! ARF!!! :-)

319. Red Dead Ryan - August 25, 2013

My list:

1. Star Trek
2. Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan
3. Star Trek First Contact
4. Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
5. Star Trek Into Darkness
6. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
7. Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country
8. Star Trek: The Voyage Home
9. Star Trek Generations
10. Star Trek Nemesis
11. Star Trek Insurrection
12. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

The first six movies I consider good to great. The bottom six I consider okay to terrible.

320. Red Dead Ryan - August 25, 2013

In fact, I consider my bottom three picks to be equally bad. They’re an embarrassment to the franchise.

My top three picks are equally good, but in different ways. TSFS is just a nose better than STID.

321. Vultan - August 25, 2013

Interesting to see the different rankings of Trek movies. They’re as varied as our opinions, which is a good thing. IDIC and all that.

I’d nominate the best non-Trek Trek movie being Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World. Hasn’t a thing to do with outer space or the future, but the story and lead characters are very Kirk and Spock (and McCoy).

322. Red Dead Ryan - August 25, 2013

#321.

Indeed, “Master And Commander” is an underrated classic. It’s a shame that it will likely never get a sequel, even though a second film was originally planned.

I would also consider “Serenity” another non-Trek Trek movie. As well as “Forbidden Planet”.

323. Phobos in City 45°N 73°W - August 25, 2013

Star Trek Nemesis is underestimated. The villain is not the best but this movie had some great moments.

– Musical score e.g., war beat at beginning when arriving at Romulus — “Senators!..”.
– Data and Picard brainstorming in stellar cartography. Realization that an attack would happen soon.
– The new Enterprise, the effects, the barrage of quantum torpedoes after Deanna helps Worf.
– Picard tells Schinzon: “And you are a mirror of me Schinzon” (as in he has the ability to be good but just doesnt see it).
– Riker beams the entire ship then warps out.
– The Romulan government surprises Picard by offering to help.
– Picard walking through decks thinking: “Like a thousand other commanders on a thousand other battlefields, I wait for the dawn.”
– Picard going over to the Scimitar for a one on one fight.
– B4 starting to get smart using Data’s memory engrams.

324. ATOZ the librarian - August 25, 2013

I’ll take extra lens flares over transwarp beaming…

325. Jack - August 25, 2013

Will there be a DVD extra explaining why half the characters say “shit!” and if it’s supposed to work as a running joke? Is it just ’cause we haven’t heard some of these guys say the word before? Or because it was so hilarious in Generations? Or because some oversensitive, old-fashioned folks on here complained about Kirk uttering ‘bullshit’ in Trek 09. Or is it just to humanize them?

I’m not complaining about it — It just seemed like they were trying to do something with it. Are there deleted scenes of Spock and Uhura saying the word too?

326. Vultan - August 25, 2013

#322

Yep. Good picks. I agree.

327. Vultan - August 25, 2013

#324

It was a metamessage referring to the quality of the script.

328. marja - August 25, 2013

321: Vultan YES! Aubrey & Maturin for the win[d]! : D

308 Rick, “One of the few people I’ve ever heard who would describe that scene like that. It was hardly poignant, it showed that Uhura couldn’t keep her professionalism in check during a very serious mission. It also showed Kirk as a weak Captain who didn’t stand firmly when he told her and Spock to save it for later.”

Kirk didn’t keep his emotionalism in check very much either during the entire movie.

329. Exverlobter - August 25, 2013

This is my list: (worst to best)

12. Insurrection
11. Nemesis
10. The Final Frontier
9. Generations
8. The Search for Spock
7. The Motion Picture

6. Into Darkness
5. Star Trek 2009
4. The Voyage Home
3. Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
1. Undiscovered Country

330. marja - August 25, 2013

315 Rose, Outstanding notes, and I totally SECOND.

I’m tired of people singling out Uhura as the unprofessional crewmember while giving EVERYONE else a pass. LOOK at them, people.

Trek movies:

1 – ST2009
2 – STiD
3 – Wrath of Khaaaaannnn
4 – Whales
5 – First Contact

… and haha, Galaxy Quest which was, if nothing else, a great, loving send-up of fandom and a fantasy made real!

331. marja - August 25, 2013

314 Keachick, I don’t really think ZQ is going to turn into the Shatner of AU actors : p

[1] His older brother is still thin. [2] ZQ loves couture suits and wouldn’t be able to wear them. He’ll be busting his hump to stay thin, trust me.

332. dswynne - August 26, 2013

Since everyone is listing their, Trek films, from most favorite to least, here’s mine:

STTMP: The only one I consider “real” ‘Trek, as a purely sci-fi spectacle.
ST2WOK: Worthy “sequel” to a TOS episode.
ST6TUC: Good wrap up of an era in more ways than one (i.e. the end of the TOS crew and the Cold War)
STFC: Played up the strengths of the characters, with an organic story arc that was mixed with appropriate levels of humor.
ST4TVH: Good message and characterization, but lack of space adventure brought it below FC.
ST3TSFS: Just a tying of loose ends.
STI: A decent TNG film, but nothing to be wowed over (actually gets better than STN with age, IMO)
STG/STN: Tied for pointless need to kill off characters, when STWOK did it better and smarter.
ST5TFF: Not Mr. Shatner’s fault that Paramount had undercut his efforts at the director’s helm.

Btw, I don’t count ST09, STiD or GQ, since ST09 and STiD has a different “flavor” than previous Trek films, and GQ is a parody of classic ‘Trek. I do like all three films, but the lack of Gene Roddenberry’s influence on these films makes it difficult to rate them against the previous films (from 1979 to 2002). Still, if I were to rate them against the previous films, they would be listed above STI. Ultimately, I like all the films to one degree or another, but this is my ranking of them from most favorite to least.

333. dswynne - August 26, 2013

@#315: Get a sense of humor. I liked STiD, but I have no problem laughing at the tropes and plotholes in the film. It’s called “having a guilty pleasure”. And if you can’t laugh at your sacred cows, then you’re no better than those you complain about complaining the film.

334. Keachick - August 26, 2013

No. I doubt that ZQ will look as big as William Shatner as he gets older. He does not have quite the same body build but is slightly closer to it than Chris Pine is. William Shatner is quite short in the waist/torso with rather nicely shaped broader shoulders. His legs are longer and leaner. Chris Pine also has long, lean legs in keeping with his longer upper body – better proportions.

Another big difference is the timing of these actors’ births. William Shatner was born in the middle of a 20th century Depression in Montreal, Canada and I don’t know what the family circumstances were. Many children were undernourished in those times…I recall seeing a picture of him when he was 16 (1947) in a more recent book he had written (can’t recall the name) and he was literally skin and bone.

There is still so much that is not understood about genetics, different body types, how diets can affect people in different ways, along with various forms of exercise. Some diets and types of exercise can affect people in different ways and not all of them positive.

335. Keachick - August 26, 2013

It is now 26 August (US time) which means our lovely young Captain Kirk (alias Chris Pine) has a birthday today.

Happy Birthday to Chris
Happy Birthday to you

“Why were you born so beautiful
Why were you born at all
The angels brought you down from heav’n
To shine a light for all!”

Chris Pine – May you enjoy a great new year. Take care of yourself.
Love and best wishes, Rose (Keachick)

336. Keachick - August 26, 2013

To Chris Pine – Hugs and kisses from me to you…

337. Mad Mann - August 26, 2013

I love reading everyone’s list of favorite Trek movies. Here’s mine:

1. Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. Search for Spock
4. Voyage Home
5. TMP
6. Undiscovered Country
7. Star Trek (2009)
8. Generations
9. Final Frontier
10. Insurrection
11. Into Darkness
12. Nemesis.

On my list, I actually am big fans of the first 8 (Yes, even Generations). I love parts of Final Frontier but it definitely has its problems. But I have MAJOR problems with Insurrection, Into Darkness, and Nemesis.

338. Stephan - August 26, 2013

1. First Contact
2. Into Darkness
3. Star Trek (2009)
4. Insurrection
5. Wrath Of Khan
6. Generations
7. The Undiscovered Country
8. Nemesis
9. Search For Spock
10. The Voyage Home
11. The Motion Picture
12. Final Frontier

Ok, here is my list. Although I think that none of them is really bad. And I think its difficult to compare them because they are so diffierent in themes and style.

339. Dennis Bailey - August 26, 2013

1. TWOK
2. ST 2009
3. STID
4. TVH
5. TMP
6. FC

Beyond that, don’t care.

340. TUP - August 26, 2013

Im really quite dismayed by the seeming momentum in favour of STID being a bad movie. It was a GREAT movie and I am nortorious in my nitpicking logic.

There were things that would have made the movie better.

– The secrecy of Khan screwed them from the beginning. It forced them all to lie and it made it impossible to market the bad guy. When they did market John Harrison, no one cared. When Khan was revealed, it left a lot of fans out raged and casual fans confused and new fans indifferent.

– There was a rumour that Ricardo M would be seen in CGI at the end of the film. I was really holding out hope that Harrison was masquerading as Khan and the last scene would be the camera panning over the caskets and lingering on the face R.M. thus making STID more of a Space Seed homage than a WOK.

– Spock being messed up due to Pike dying makes a lot of sense in the Prime universe. We saw what he was willing to do to help Pike after he was crippled. But in Star Trek, Pike was a mentor to Kirk, not so much Spock (though clearly there was a relationship there). They “told” us the mind meld emotion was rough on Spock rather than “showing” us the depth of their connection. Quite honestly, I would have preferred to see Pike’s “crippled” scene be him in the radiation, saving the crew and dying that way (a very heroic death) with perhaps Kirk trying to then save him and being gravely injured.

As others have said, the issues with the films are born from the choices Bad Robot made to begin with. They should never have ended Star Trek the way they did with Kirk getting the promotion. It should have been the crew going their separate ways to different crew assignments (kirk to the Farragut, Spock as first officer under Pike etc).

But none of that changes that STID was a great movie. The WOK death scene should actually have been even MORE word-for-word.

341. Mad Mann - August 26, 2013

More word-for-word? Wow, I think it should have been zero, a total non-WOK copy.

There is one thing that would make me happy: if it is releaved that John Harrison was NOT Khan, that he simply faked it to protect his leader still in cryo-sleep. Maybe Admiral Marcus and Section 31 knew that the real Khan was still in the tube, so they awoke a different augment since they felt they could control a non-Khan easier.

That would make perfect sense and explain the change in ethnicity to the character.

342. TUP - August 26, 2013

It could have even been as simple as Jochin being awoken first (wasn’t Khan awoken first in Space Seed simply because it was HIS tube that malfunctioned when they turned the power on)?

And if Joachin was woken first, his mandate might have been to protect Khan. He would have quickly realised there was danger. Its even further motivation for Harrison’s obsession with revenge and protecting his people if Khan is one of them.

In Space Seed, it said records were fragmented from Khan’s time. If Starfleet was unsure waht Khan looked like and simply took Joachin’s word that he was Khan, Prime Spock’s role in STID could have been even more important by revealing that Harrison was not Khan at all. That revelation could have been used to give the heroes the pyshcologocal edge over Harrison to defeat him, manipulating his love for Khan and his desire to do anything to protect him.

And just like Space Seed it sets up the eventual return of Khan. Maybe that return is less personal than WOK because it was Joachin’s issue with Kirk but its not like Bad Robot is going to ever produce a return of Khan film.

343. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

I don’t want to see Khan again. They should stop reusing old stories & come up with new ones.
Why reboot Star Trek & then go back to same old stories, this is stupid.

344. TUP - August 26, 2013

I dont disagree. What I prefer is a new story with easter eggs for us long time fans.

But I also believe very strongly, they need to get Shatner in the next one as James Kirk.

345. crazydaystrom, of Charleston, SC - August 26, 2013

341. TUP –
“And just like Space Seed it sets up the eventual return of Khan……but its not like Bad Robot is going to ever produce a return of Khan film.”
________

Well not another one, at least. He was Harrison. No he’s Khan. OK, fine. Done (controversial) deal. It would be a huge mistake IMO to turn around again and proclaim he’s not Khan but Joachim or just some other augment using he name or the title ‘Khan’. I know a lot of fans want that so as to clean up what some of us see as the ‘mess of Khan’ (his radically different appearance and the reuse of that great character). But that would just dig the hole deeper. Leave it as it is, I say, and let’s explore some new areas, figuratively and literally. I can’t see Bad Robot doing anything that would appear as admission of the use of Khan as a mistake. And really, they shouldn’t. Let’s just move on to better things.

346. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

@342…the only thing “reused” in STID was Khan and the reactor scene. Other then that, it was about as original of a film as you can get with the hundreds of previous plots done in previous Trek productions..

Not trying to “diss” anybody, but I still do not understand why folks say this movie was long rip off.

I never once saw Khan involved in a plot with Klingons. He was woken up by Kirk, not Starfleet. Khan had a knowledge of the Enterprise, not trained by Starfleet and involved in secret missions/technology development. Section 31 was never involved with Khan. Spock never fought Khan face to face. Spock was not Khan’s “nemesis”..Kirk was. Kirk and Crew never visited Nibiru. Going with the evidence and the fact that Kirk was not in command in 2259, I’d assume that the inhabitants of that planet do not exist in the prime universe as another crew would have let them go extinct. Oh, and old Khan ended up on Ceti Alpha 5, not stored in the same warehouse as the ark of the covnant.

Still, an original film that uses an unoriginal villain and creates a new back story for him, which was one of the long ago stated ideas that this new creative team had when creating this “alternate” universe.

As for those complaining about Cold Fusion…it’s a fictional device. Who cares. Maybe in the 23rd century they use “cold fusion” in the way it’s used. Who knows. Perhaps if they gave it a mumbo jumbo 24th century tech name then it would work.

Khan’s “ethnicity”…who cares. Cumberpatch was brilliant. Besides, part of the lovely nature of a fictional universe is that you can create your own backstory and be set. Mine was that he was given a full facial and voice reconstruction so that nobody would know who he really was. If ditzy weak minded Marla could identify Khan without the use of the Enterprise computer system, imagine what others with a knowledge of 20th century history could do. All some bored technician working with Khan would have to do is put 1 and 1 together and report it to the part of Starfleet that cared about that sort of deal and blamo. Marcus and Section 31 would be in trouble.

347. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@ 343. TUP – August 26, 2013

“What I prefer is a new story with easter eggs for us long time fans.”

Yeha, that would be nice unless it is like that terrible scene where Spock is screaming Khannnnnnnnnnn

“But I also believe very strongly, they need to get Shatner in the next one as James Kirk.”

Totally agree, Spock was giving in the first 2 movies in this new timeline, it is about time that we see the original Kirk.

For people who say that it can’t be done because Kirk is dead in the original timeline, I say this is no reason simply because we are dealing with a science fiction show. In Star Trek alone, we saw lot of dead people coming back to life in various ways. From Spock himself to Tasha Yar & others.

In science fiction, death doesn’t stop you from coming back, ask Ellen Ripley about it :)

348. The Boss - August 26, 2013

Saw STID for the 3rd time and again: could this be the real Khan (in torpedo casing that dr. Marcus and Bones tried to disarm)?

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab63/bostjan555/vlcsnap-2013-08-26-17h26m25s51_zpsb2cb91dc.png

LLAP to all! :)

349. TUP - August 26, 2013

Shatner needs to be in it not only because its the right thing to do for an actor that might not be working much longer, but also from a marketing stand point.

350. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

345. Ahmed – August 26, 2013

Here is an easy way to get Kirk AND Spock in the next film…..

Do a special CGI or animated “prequel” film that deals with Nimoy Spock going out in search of the Nexus. While in the Nexus, he finds the “echo” of Shatner Kirk. They find out that when you can exit to a new “reality” once and a part of you always stays in the Nexus as an anchor of a sort…so, while Kirk cannot go into the Prime Universe again (as a part of him already did) he can go into the Alternate reality with Spock….

….or, Pine Kirk, due to have “superman” blood in him, is starting to have some nasty side effects. Part of that is he is starting to hallucinate. Since he did a mind meld with Spock Prime, he has an echo of his memories within him, and part of that would be Kirk Prime, which would appear and talk to him randomly throughout the movie….

351. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

..or have a few animated films that feature TNG/DS9/VOY cast members in which is heavily based on Shatners “The Return”..in which Kirk is resurrected by the Borg or some other group..and after everything is said and done, he goes off to try and find Spock and ends up in the Alternate Reality and on New Vulcan helping Spock set up a Vulcan colony…perhaps he gets ahold of some Red Matter and opens a portal that drops him off in whatever year the 3rd film will take place.

352. Hugh Hoyland - August 26, 2013

@309 Marja

“What seemed particularly TOS-like was Spock’s objection to the “huntin’ down and killin’” mission, and his face before, and as, Kirk decides he’s returning Khan to Earth for trial. ”

Yes, thats what I got out of it as well, spot on.

As far as the violence (Spock vs Khan), I can see why that particular scene could bother some viewers, its rough and a bit on the nose maybe, but it works for me.

353. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

@350…I loved the Spock vs Khan scene. Was well done. Folks had issues with him breaking Khan’s arm..it was just a shout out to earlier when Khan told him he was incapable of doing so…

Remember, this is NOT Spock Prime. He’s got ALOT of issues after watching his mother die and his planet go byebye. He was very Spock like when Pike died and you know that got to him…so, he pretty much lost it when Kirk died, especially when finally reaching that point in his relationship that elder Spock informed him of…

I’m surprised folks don’t bring up and have issue with Scotty calling Kirk “Jim” several times…different relationship. Prime Kirk and Scotty were more co-workers then friends. Alternate Kirk and Scotty have seemed to build up a relationship.

354. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

Oh and FYI for those wondering….Praxis was destroyed for a reason. Was a secret mission that John Harrison undertook for Section 31….

..which would explain why he had Captain April’s weapon stash on Kronos..he had used that province as a hideout during his secret missions against the Klingons..that was his “home away from home” hideout

355. JimJ - August 26, 2013

My list:

1. Star Trek Into Darkness
2. Star Trek
3. Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home
4. Star Trek: First Contact
5. Star Trek 2: The Wrath Of Khan
6. Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country
7. Star Trek 3: The Search For Spock (way underrated)
8. Star Trek: Nemesis
9. Star Trek 5: The Final Frontier
10. Star Trek: Insurrection
11. Star Trek: The Motion Picture
12. Star Trek: Generations (you kill off my hero, you come in LAST-lol!)

356. crazydaystrom - August 26, 2013

@349. Robman007-
“…..or have a few animated films that feature TNG/DS9/VOY cast members…”
_________

This brings to mind the ‘AniMatrix’ direct to video that was released between the first and second Matrix movies. It was the second best of those movies. Much better than ‘Reloaded’ and ‘Revolutions’. But yeah, some good thought provoking animated Trek would be something I’d like to see.

And-
It looks like my identifying where I live got my post pulled. Temporarily I hope.

357. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@340 “There is one thing that would make me happy: if it is releaved that John Harrison was NOT Khan, that he simply faked it to protect his leader still in cryo-sleep. Maybe Admiral Marcus and Section 31 knew that the real Khan was still in the tube, so they awoke a different augment since they felt they could control a non-Khan easier.”

I have an alternative explanation. It’s a fictional universe that is described in a series of tv shows and movies over decades, and two different actors — neither of them having any ancestry even remotely associated with Punjabis — have played the fictional character of Khan.

358. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

My list…haha!

1. The Wrath of Khan
2. First Contact
3. Star Trek
4. Search for Spock
5. The Undiscovered Country
6. The Voyage Home
7. Into Darkness
8. The Final Frontier
9. The Motion Picture
10. Generations
11. Nemesis
12. Insurrection

359. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@342 “They should stop reusing old stories & come up with new ones.
Why reboot Star Trek & then go back to same old stories, this is stupid.”

Hmm??? They obviously recycled two scenes from WOK, but the “story” was 99% new?

360. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

354. crazydaystrom – August 26, 2013

Bingo!

Or, for a special 50th anniversary treat, they could do a direct to netflix 4-5 set of episodes..animated or non-animated, that could feature different stories, one of which would have Spock Prime finding Kirk Prime…the other episodes can be done up like original TOS episodes, each featuring the new Enterprise and new missions or misisons featuring familiar faces…

361. Blue Thunder - August 26, 2013

@342 – Somebody should tell that to the people at IDW Comics, concerning their Star Trek Ongoing comic series(set in the new timeline).

Honestly, if I wanted to watch TOS episodes, I need not look any furthur than my own DVD collection.

362. Mad Mann - August 26, 2013

For the next movie: have the opening adventure be a twist to an old episode or two, but the main plot of the movie be a totally different thing.

I think it’d be cool to throw in Bjo Trimble’s name into the story somehow. Maybe the ship is called back to Earth, cutting the 5-year mission early. It could be said amoung the characters that the mission would have been cut to 2 years, but “Ambassador” Bjo Trimble successfully lobbied for an extension. This could mirror how TOS was saved after season two by the real Bjo Trimble. Hey, without Ms. Trimble, we would not have Star Trek as a franchise at all! This would be all kinds of awesome!

363. Disinvited - August 26, 2013

#344. Robman007 – August 26, 2013

Still, I’ve often wondered how it was considered a wise idea to give him access to Klingon proverbs (or Klingon anything for that matter) in exile? But apparently he was kept from Klingon Space Battle Tactics and Maneuvers for surely he would have shaken the 2D thinking if he had read that.

364. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@ 359. Blue Thunder – August 26, 2013

“@342 – Somebody should tell that to the people at IDW Comics, concerning their Star Trek Ongoing comic series(set in the new timeline).

Honestly, if I wanted to watch TOS episodes, I need not look any furthur than my own DVD collection.”

Yeah, I stopped reading the comics. It is just waste of time & money.

365. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@ 355. MJ (The Original). – August 26, 2013

“I have an alternative explanation. It’s a fictional universe that is described in a series of tv shows and movies over decades, and two different actors — neither of them having any ancestry even remotely associated with Punjabis — have played the fictional character of Khan.”

A fictional universe doesn’t mean that we throw the logic or an established continuity out of the window.

366. Red Dead Ryan - August 26, 2013

Robman007,

You have come with some very interesting points regarding the alleged “plot holes” of STID.

You’re right, it just comes down to people willing to fill in the gaps with their own imaginations. Some people can do that, and some people can’t.

367. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@344. Robman007

“As for those complaining about Cold Fusion…it’s a fictional device. Who cares.
Khan’s “ethnicity”…who cares. ”

The Enterprise is under water …. WHO CARES.
Kirk removed from command, then 5 min, back in the seat … WHO CARES.
Another BIG BLACK SHIP attacking the Enterprise …. WHO CARES.
Magic blood …. WHO CARES.
From Qo’noS to Earth in 5 min .. WHO CARES.

Why should we care at all, it is only a SUMMER MOVIE, right

368. TUP - August 26, 2013

I think many people on here are missing something. While certain plot contrivances can be brushed away with “who cares” the difference between legitimate logic holes and things that are explainable is “common sense”.

Kirk’s comman nonsense bothers me a lot more than the Cold Fusion device. I can buy the creation of some sort of device that rendered the volcano innert in the future moreso than an act that disreagrds canon and the established logic of StarFleet.

It seems clear the writers wanted to end Star Trek with everyone as one big happy family heading out on their missions together. But it was the wrong thing to do. If they had confidence their film would be successful and warrant a sequel, they should have considered character arcs for a trilogy (at least).

Let the third one end with the crew setting out on their first 5 year mission together.

The Kirk rank thing really bothered me a lot. And the silly way in which the writers tried to make it seem like they did it on purpose so they could “address” it in STID didnt help much.

369. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

@365…fill in the blanks..

The Enterprise is under water (granted it was silly)..but perhaps the Enterprise was underwater using it’s deflector dish or warp field to help control some tectonic plate issues that would have caused massive damage to the planet surface as a result of this volcano exploding…easy enough to make up, besides, the planet was not earth. Perhaps things work differently on that planet.

Kirk removed from command then back in the seat..easy, lack of command level personel. Marcus saw an opportunity to use a hot headed Captain Kirk to start his war against the Klingon Empire. Easy to blame the hot head when sh!t hits the fan.

Magic Blood..dumb, but never counted out that original Khan had the same. Plus, McCoy AND Khan used it as a base material in making a syrum of some kind. Not outside the realm of possiblity. Very sci-fi, but then again, original Trek used the silly Genesis device and Spock as plot devices to bring Spock back to life.

From Qo’noS to Earth in 5 min….either there was time shift that was not shown, which was frequently used in movies like John Carpenters “The Thing” and even Star Trek VI (from Earth to the Neutral Zone in what felt like hours)…or Ludicrous Speed…although it was more or less for pacing, because non-Trek fans don’t care about the “real fictional” distance between Earth and the Neutral Zone

It still boils down to fiction and the lovely thing about fiction is that you can fill in the blanks if you want. I half expect some of the issues will get explainations in upcoming “countdown” issues. While I do see most as reasons to do nice set pieces and what not, that is the price to pay for making a film to cater to all audiences rather then just Trek fans.

370. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

Hell, even the 72 torpedoes could be explained a bit….

Khan was not dumb. He planned out his revenge LONG before he actually went ahead with it. He knew Marcus would “find” his torpedoes, he knew Marcus would send a ship to find him on his hideout on Qo’noS, he knew the make up of the 23rd Century pacifist and that they would NOT use those torpedoes against him. All he had to do was make it aboard the ship, lure Marcus and the Vengeance to him, then con his “captures” into helping him gain access to the Vengeance before taking control of his personally built ship and waking his crew up to crew it. Easy.

Oh, and the big black ship thing…easy. The Klingons had the Narada for 25 years..they have even been shown in Countdown comics to have ships that look like the Narada. Section 31, in offical film background, were shown to have spent time committing espionage against the Klingons (using Khan)…so, they took some Narada plans, used the Enterprise and Kelvin scans, and created some secret ship that they would use when the Klingon Empire came knocking, which they no doubt will..they did it in the Prime Universe with far less to provoke them.

371. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

366. TUP…yeah, Kirks rank jump was always silly…that had more to do with avoiding the “Star Wars Prequel” problem in getting to the point in 1 film rather then taking 3 films to get to the point of the 5 year mission….could have been explained different, but saved us three films of “getting to the point”…

…film 1 should have ended with Kirk as 2nd in command, Spock as 3rd and the science officer and Pike in command. ID would have had Pike give his life saving the Enterprise, with Kirk beating Khan in battle, getting command and Spock as his first officer going on the 5 year mission.

372. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@368. Robman007

Dude, you should work with “Malcolm Tucker” aka the spin doctor, I’m sure he will appreciated your creativity :)

373. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

@370…hahaha! Eh, I just have an active imagination. It’s pretty easy to fill in blanks if you want too.

I’m not saying that those issues didn’t bug me..I was just able to find ways in my head to justify said plot holes. Plot holes, yes. Lazy writing at times, yes. But, I can excuse some of them….the Kirk back in Command was the easiest to justify based on events in the film.

374. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

While I would have written those in the film…I would have done the ending quite different. I would have had Kirk lead a battle against Khan and the Vengeance which would have included the local fleet of starships along with some Klingon ships that followed both back to Earth…then have Kirk “injured” doing some heroics, while not quite dead. That way, they could have captured Khan, used his DNA to create some miracle cure that would have repaired his spine, or whatever injury he sustained…

…OR I would have Khan be a “good guy” all along, saving the Enterprise in the reactor…Kirk and crew would have taken his men to their own planet (Ceti Alpha 5) to live out their lives away from Starfleet, since they would not have known of their existence all together…then have the reveal at the end show that Cumberpatch was Joachim, and Khan was frozen the whole time. He’d then seek revenge against Kirk in that timeline for betraying Joachims sacrafice.

375. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

“A fictional universe doesn’t mean that we throw the logic or an established continuity out of the window.”

So they should have hired another Mexican to play a Punjabi Sikh?

We have an Hispanic playing Uhura, yet no one complains about that?

376. TUP - August 26, 2013

I didnt mind the Magic Blood because nothing in canon contradicts it but it was a bit out there. Having a near-dead Kirk would have made it easier to swallow. The problem is, you now have a cure to death. Why would they not use the augment’s blood in every instance of human death?

End Star Trek with Kirk reporting for duty on the farragut as Lieutenant, Spock second in command of the Enterprise and over-seeing repairs (with Scotty) while Pike recuperates. Open STID with Kirk on the Farragut (you could add a couple other cast members) and his rising to the occasion moment where he assumes command and saves the day, earning a promotion. Farragut is virtually destroyed and Pike, still recovering, names Kirk as “Acting Captain” for the purposes of the mission. With Pike dead, Kirk is promoted to full Captain at the end of the flick and voila.

377. Vultan - August 26, 2013

And coconuts can migrate.

378. Keachick - August 26, 2013

#370 – Robman007 is making reasoned comments about the film. There is no “spin doctoring” here.

#363 – “A fictional universe doesn’t mean that we throw the logic or an established continuity out of the window.”

What established continuity? To reiterate, John Harrison called himself Khan – nothing more. Nor did Admiral Marcus or anyone else refer to John Harrison as actually being Khan Noonien Singh. The only person who used the name was PRIME Spock when he spoke of what he knew of the PRIME universe Khan Noonien Singh. It has never been established on FILM (the Director’s Cut and making it CANON) that John Harrison is actually the same prime universe’s Khan Noonien Singh counterpart. No such continuity has been established. The Khan name is a very common name now and will probably remain so in the 23rd century of either universes.

379. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

373. MJ (The Original)….don’t forget, you also have an englishman playing a Scott, an austrailian playing an American from the south, and a Korean playing a Japanese man.

380. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

376. Keachick

Thank you!

It is funny what you can explain when you eliminate blind hatred of a film and it’s creators and instead pay attention to dialogue in film and or also engage the imagination and fill in the blanks. While some of the stuff I came up with was perhaps filling in too many blanks, they are all logical explinations

381. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@ 373. MJ (The Original). – August 26, 2013

“We have an Hispanic playing Uhura, yet no one complains about that?”

She is not white, that why no one is complaining.
Not that this new Uhura is perfect. I find her very annoying.

382. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

Oh, I’ll go even further….

In regards to the Vengeance and it’s “mininal crew”…TOS Trek established a device that was being developed to help accomplish this task…M5.

Perhaps Khan in this reality had access to the previous M series computers and made his modifications to actually make it a stable computer system. Modified an M4 system and installed it in the Vengeance.

383. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

Keachick & Robman007, You can’t ignore the facts. The movie state he is Khan, everybody from the cast to the writers to the director saying it is Khan.

You wanna ignore that & come up with your own version of the movie , fine, have fun with that.

384. crazydaystroma crazydaystrom - August 26, 2013

358. Robman007 –
“354. crazydaystrom – August 26, 2013

Bingo!

Or, for a special 50th anniversary treat, they could do a direct to netflix 4-5 set of episodes..animated or non-animated, that could feature different stories, one of which would have Spock Prime finding Kirk Prime…the other episodes can be done up like original TOS episodes, each featuring the new Enterprise and new missions or misisons featuring familiar faces…”
__________

Sure, whatever the story just so long as it’s good, interesting and intriguing science fiction set in the Star Trek universe. If it were necessary I’d love to see a low budget Trek series with the concentration on great and mind-bending storytelling and great acting. Something like that would truly be reminiscent of TOS. Relatively low risk financially and potentially huge payoff artistically. No ‘stars’ with large salaries. No insane whiz- bang special effects. But thought-provoking, well-acted science fiction set in the Trek Universe. Something similar to what they attempt to do with the fan productions but fail at for the most part, falling short in the acting and the writing departments.

385. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

381. Ahmed – August 26, 2013

Actually, tell me where I (as in Robman) said that he was NOT THE Khan Noonien Singh.

I actually believe full well that Cumberpatch WAS Khan. I think he was given facial reconstruction as well as a voice change workover to look like John Harrison, his new idenity. Again, if the ditzy and out there Marla McGivers can idenity Khan Noonien Singh without the use of a computer system, then I’m sure that Section 31 Officer Joe Montana, who has a love of past history, could identify said dictator while working close with the man….so, what better way to conceal the identity of said man by changing it.

You don’t wanna bog down casual movie goers, so you save that for Khan’s “comic” prequel series, which is forthcoming.

386. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@379. Well, that seems kind of superficial to me. I can buy some complaints from some here in the past that they should have got an Indian to play Khan, but complaining that they just need to match skin color seems pretty superficial for a non-main character on Star Trek.

And not only that, obviously the Eugenics Wars in the 90’s never happened anyway, so the entire Khan back-story is already dubious at best.

387. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@382.

Of course he was Khan. This “wish it so and maybe it will be true” conjecture by some well-meaning overly sentimental fans here that he wasn’t really Khan is utterly ridiculous and without merit. I won’t even give it credibility by debating it. It is a non-starter — dead on arrival.

388. crazydaystrom - August 26, 2013

Man oh man! I am having a rough time posting here today.

:-(

389. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

The political aspect of hollywood would justify having Khan played by Cumbpatch because

A. you cannot do a film anymore showing terrorists played by folks from the middle east. In this quick to call racist society (especially in the last 1-2 years), you can’t afford to lose out on ticket sales, especially in the foreign market…by making Khan look middle eastern, you’d have all sorts of groups, totally ignorant of the characters background, calling racism on the writers for that one and brining up “stereotypes”….then again, Cumberpatch’s casting has brought forth calls of racism, so I guess you can’t win when folks wanna throw that label around.

B. Cumberpatch is like Elvis in the foreign markets, especially those that have not done well with Trek. HE made the diffrence between foreign ticket sales from 2009 and this film.

Those points you cannot argue and are as logical as saying grass is green.

390. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@377 “MJ (The Original)….don’t forget, you also have an englishman playing a Scott, an austrailian playing an American from the south, and a Korean playing a Japanese man.”

Yep!

And maybe it’s because I have less hangups and are more forward thinking than some here, but I would have had no problem with say a Chinese Dr. McCoy, provided he behaved and acted like Dr. McCoy from the original series and was Kirk’s best friend.

391. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

387. MJ (The Original). – August 26, 2013

Take it a step further…I’d love to see an African American play Captain Kirk, as long as he was an actor who did the part justice. Bring it on. As long as you stick to the core of the character, who cares who plays them.

392. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@ 382. Robman007 – August 26, 2013

“381. Ahmed – August 26, 2013
Actually, tell me where I (as in Robman) said that he was NOT THE Khan Noonien Singh.”

My mistake, when I read your post #378 replying to Keachick, I thought you are agreeing with her strange theory.

@ 384. MJ (The Original). – August 26, 2013

“@382. Of course he was Khan. This “wish it so and maybe it will be true” conjecture by some well-meaning overly sentimental fans here that he wasn’t really Khan is utterly ridiculous and without merit. I won’t even give it credibility by debating it. It is a non-starter — dead on arrival.”

Yep, agreed.

393. Keachick - August 26, 2013

“Kirk removed from command then back in the seat..easy, lack of command level personel. Marcus saw an opportunity to use a hot headed Captain Kirk to start his war against the Klingon Empire. Easy to blame the hot head when sh!t hits the fan.”

That was so obviously what Marcus did. He knew that Kirk was full of grief and anger over the death of his mentor, Pike and was clearly out to get the guy who caused Pike’s death. Marcus also knew that Kirk had suffered demotion for disobeying Starfleet *regulations and saw that Kirk was very keen to redeem himself in that regard and be given a second chance. Admiral Marcus obliged. What Marcus did not count on was that Kirk would actually follow proper Starfleet protocols this time round – LOL – and go against his own direct orders re the killing of John Harrison.

* It seems that Admiral Marcus, being head of Starfleet, had come to have the notion that Starfleet regulations/protocols are whatever he deemed them to be and that his orders could overrride any such Federation council directives.

394. Robman007 - August 26, 2013

It’s pretty easy to see most the film as a chess match of manipulation between Khan and Marcus.

Marcus manipulated and used a hotheaded and grieving Kirk to destroy Khan, eliminate the 72 torpedo evidence AND start his war against the Klingons.

Khan outplayed him by knowing full well Marcus would find the torpedoes, that a 23rd century man would not fire those torpedoes, WOULD bring him into custody, would assist him in “arresting” Marcus and gaining access to the Vengeance.

Brilliant, ruthless and Manipulating was Khan. Just like his TOS counterpart. Just far more 23rd century educated.

395. Marja - August 26, 2013

390 Keachick, Hi, I haven’t read back to previous posts yet, but did want to say that in the US – whether the Federation and Starfleet take after the US organizational model, I don’t know – but here, the Congress [equiv to Fed Council] sets forth basic rules for the military conducting their business, but regulations, which are far more detailed, are established by the Military for the administration / use of their personnel.

For example, Congress has not detailed certain behaviours. They expect the military to accomplish goals and have a ceertain professional work environment, but the regulations pertaining, say, to “Conduct Unbecoming an Officer” would be found in the Uniform Code of Military Justice [UCMJ]. Congress decrees that there shall be penalties for revealing information kept secret because it pertains to national security [these differ for civilians and military folk]; under that law and the strict protocols of the UCMJ which Sgt. Bradley Manning was recently charged, he was found guilty and sentenced to serve the rest of his life in military prison for releasing military secrets. A civilian might have got off more lightly.

396. Keachick - August 26, 2013

Ahmed – I am not ignoring the facts. It is you and others who are ignoring facts. No genuine alternate universe Khan Noonien Singh counterpart to the prime universe one has been established to exist in Star Trek Into Darkness. All that has been established is that a white man known as John Harrison refers to himself as Khan – now that is CANON. An alternate universe Khan NOONIEN SINGH is NOT canon. Bob Orci can say what he wants and he knows it, but until/unless he puts on FILM, then all “facts”, as you call them, are not facts at all.

An alternate Khan Noonien Singh may still be in one of those cryotubes but that has not been established either.

We assume that all the main characters in this alternate universe are the counterparts of the prime universe characters, but the reality is that the only thing that has been truly established, because of what prime Spock has told us, is that (Quinto) Spock is his younger counterpart, (Pine) Kirk is prime Kirk’s younger counterpart and that (Pegg) Scotty is the prime universe Scotty’s younger counterpart. But I won’t quibble here about the rest of the alternate main crew members of the alternate Enterprise….I am assuming, as we all are, that prime Spock has seen and recognized the other characters – McCoy, Uhura, Chekov and Sulu as being younger alternate universe counterparts of the people he knew from his own place and time…

Zoe Saldana’s father is black and her mother Hispanic. If Zoe sees herself as being a black woman, she has every right to do so, if only to honour her father and his heritage. If she wishes to refer to herself as being Hispanic, that is also her right. Then again, it is more accurate to refer to her as a beautiful black, Hispanic woman who plays a dark skinned female communications officer aboard a starship.

397. Red Dead Ryan - August 26, 2013

Come on, Keachick, John Harrison IS Khan. Spock Prime identified him as Khan Noonien Singh. Sheesh!

This whole “John Harrison is Khan but not THE Khan” theory is pure bogus, and flies in the face of the facts presented in the movie.

Of course, this theory is being put forth by those (ie, Keachick) who refuse to accept the fact that a few of us on this site, (MJ, Basement Blogger, myself) accurately deduced that the villain was going to be Khan well before the movie came out. Keachick and the other doubters here are refusing to accept the error of their ways, and thus, are doing their best to avoid having to accept the facts and eat crow.

398. Keachick - August 26, 2013

Hi, Marja – Yes, I can see what you are saying about who sets down the regulations etc. I was reaching for the right words to explain my post. No, I agree it would not be the Federation’s job to set down the more complicated rules of conduct/protocols etc. That would be Starfleet’s but who – surely not one person like Admiral Marcus, the then head of Starfleet? Such matters of great importance could/should not be left to one person to make and enforce…

399. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@396

Keachick,

As I said, of course he was Khan. This “wish it so and maybe it will be true” conjecture by some well-meaning overly sentimental fans here that he wasn’t really Khan is utterly ridiculous and without merit. I won’t even give it credibility by debating it. It is a non-starter — dead on arrival

Now please drop this joke and come up with a better topic for Christ’s sake. Sheesh, what is the matter with you?

400. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@396. Keachick

“But I won’t quibble here about the rest of the alternate main crew members of the alternate Enterprise….I am assuming, as we all are, that prime Spock has seen and recognized the other characters – McCoy, Uhura, Chekov and Sulu as being younger alternate universe counterparts of the people he knew from his own place and time…”

Wait, what ???
So now, you are also questioning if McCoy, Uhura, Chekov and Sulu are the same people ??

I bet that Fox Mulder would love to have a coffee with you :)

401. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

“Zoe Saldana’s father is black and her mother Hispanic. If Zoe sees herself as being a black woman, she has every right to do so, if only to honour her father and his heritage. If she wishes to refer to herself as being Hispanic, that is also her right. Then again, it is more accurate to refer to her as a beautiful black, Hispanic woman who plays a dark skinned female communications officer aboard a starship.”

I don’t know where you get this from, but here father was Dominican Hispanic and here mother was Puerto Rican Hispanic. She has gone out of her way to try to educate people on her Hispanic heritage, but people on the internet and elsewhere just don’t seem to get it.

Let’s all please respect her heritage and wishes as she had defined them. There is no need for further conjecture or false assumptions by some of us here on this site.

402. DiscoSpock - August 26, 2013

Ahmed,

Do we really know that that baby at the beginning of Star Trek 2009 is the same person as the older James Kirk that we see later in Star Trek 2009?

Consider this –we never see “the mother” of Kirk again, do we? And that supposed “brother” of Kirk — how does he show up so suddenly with now backstory — isn’t it very strange indeed that when George Kirk dies, that he doesn’t say one word to his wife about Sam..i.e. “tell Sam that I love him.” Why is this?

Obviously, the older Jim Kirk that we see in Trek 2009 is not the same person as the baby Jim Kirk.

403. DiscoSpock - August 26, 2013

Whoops, correction:

“how does he show up so suddenly with NO backstory”

Sorry about that.

404. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

@402. DiscoSpock

Are you related to Fox Mulder ? :)

405. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

Disco,

Great analogy. That is certainly just as viable as Keachick’s silly Khan idea.

406. Keachick - August 26, 2013

Excuse me, MJ…Wow!

There is nothing the matter with me and I am not joking. There is no appearance of the actual alternate Khan Noonien Singh, only the appearance of a John Harrison who calls himself Khan – which is canon. Prime Spock spoke of the Khan he knew in the prime universe and how the Khan he knew was not to be trusted and could be a dangerous and ruthless man. Harrison/Khan proved himself to be very ruthless, however there are many ruthless people, some of whom may share a name in common.

Sheesh – what is the matter with you?

Zoe’s father is a black man born in the Dominican Republic – a country populated and controlled by the Spanish. The Spanish also brought slaves from Africa way back when and Zoe’s father is a descendant of one of those African slaves. Zoe’s mother is a Spanish descendant. There is no slavery anymore in that country, and as with many black and white people in the US, peace has been made between the two races. Intermarriage can and does take place with a beautiful Zoe Saldana representing the wonderful combination that two or more races can bring out in offspring. She has both African and Spanish heritage.

Please – Zoe Saldana – correct me if I have misunderstood anything about you and have it wrong.

MJ and the rest – please, stay quiet. I am in no way disrespecting anything about Zoe Saldana or ANY part of her heritage.

407. Red Dead Ryan - August 26, 2013

#402.

Except during the birth scene, George suggests that his newborn son be named “Jim”, after Winona Kirk’s dad.

Sam wasn’t mentioned — we don’t know if he does or does not exist in this timeline.

408. Red Dead Ryan - August 26, 2013

#405.

“There is nothing the matter with me and I am not joking. There is no appearance of the actual alternate Khan Noonien Singh, only the appearance of a John Harrison who calls himself Khan – which is canon. Prime Spock spoke of the Khan he knew in the prime universe and how the Khan he knew was not to be trusted and could be a dangerous and ruthless man. Harrison/Khan proved himself to be very ruthless, however there are many ruthless people, some of whom may share a name in common.”

Absolute nonsense. Again, you are ignoring the facts. It’s not very likely that a bunch of ruthless, genetically superior “supermen” would all share the name “Khan”. Gimme a break. It’s Khan Noonien Singh. Time to accept it and move on.

SHEESH!!!

409. Keachick - August 26, 2013

I don’t have to accept anything, especially when I have NOT been presented with facts borne out by Star Trek CANON.

SHEESH YOURSELVES!

410. DiscoSpock - August 26, 2013

#408

No offense, but your Khan idea should be shot out of a “CANNON.”

411. DiscoSpock - August 26, 2013

“Sam wasn’t mentioned — we don’t know if he does or does not exist in this timeline.”

But the timeline didn;t diverge until the Narada event, and Sam was older than Jim, so Sam is already alive and in the new timeline at the time of the Narada event…presumably in pre-school or grade school back on Earth.

412. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@408 “I don’t have to accept anything, especially when I have NOT been presented with facts borne out by Star Trek CANON.”

Bob Orci, who wrote the screenplay, confirmed that it is “the Khan.”

So, the author of the screenplay is wrong to? LOL What? Really! :-))

413. K-7 - August 26, 2013

Rose,

You have come up with some “doosies” here over the years, but your “Khan is not Khan” schtick really takes the cake.

You have outdone yourself on this one! ;-)

414. Ahmed - August 26, 2013

Keachick,

May I ask what proof do you want to be convinced that he is THE KHAN ? Beside of course what Bob, JJ and the whole cast said & what we saw in the movie ?

I don’t like STID that much but I also don’t believe this wacko theory of yours, with all due respect.

415. DiscoSpock - August 26, 2013

I don’t think the Carol Marcus in STID is the same one as in WOK. Just watch, in the next movie, another woman name Carol Marcus will be introduced, and she will be the one we associate the Prime universe with.

416. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@415 “I don’t think the Carol Marcus in STID is the same one as in WOK. Just watch, in the next movie, another woman name Carol Marcus will be introduced, and she will be the one we associate the Prime universe with.”

LOL

Yea, this illustrates how silly this whole Khan discussion is.

417. Marja - August 26, 2013

373 MJ, I’m not sure where people are getting the idea that Saldana is not of mixed race.
Her ancestry is African and Spanish. She’s from the Dominican Republic, a place in which Africans were held in slavery centuries ago. As in Cuba, where you will also find Afro-Cuban folk, in DR you will find Afro-Dominican folk. Thus she can proudly proclaim her heritage as African and Dominican. This was debated here months ago.

367, 368, 369, Robman, Genius RetCon, probably the best I’ve read here. Shows Khan’s genius and ability to strategize.

I disagree with you on one point. Spock should have been Pike’s first officer and continuted in that role until Pike is removed from the scene [and I like the idea of his receiving a terrible injury which could be healed by the "magic blood" instead of bringing a dead person back wholesale] – Pike could be invalided back to SFHQ, SPOCK could ascend to command, and Kirk be his first officer. That seems more fitting to me based on their ranks at the beginning, and I only think [headcanon] that Kirk got promoted to captain because of politics back at HQ and in the Federation Council.

At best he should’ve been promoted to First, to advise and urge Spock, and THAT would have been a fantastic role switch for the Alternate Universe. I know long-term fans are probably choking on their coffee right about now, but I’ve always thought Spock was a very competent officer when in charge of the Enterprise, and could have genius Kirk as his conscience and tactics man, and McCoy as conscience and Uhura as sounding board to question any over-logical or overly literal decisions [like "we were ordered to rendezvous at the Laurentian System, therefore we are headed there"].

418. Marja - August 26, 2013

340 TUP, – “Spock being messed up due to Pike dying makes a lot of sense in the Prime universe. We saw what he was willing to do to help Pike after he was crippled. But in Star Trek, Pike was a mentor to Kirk, not so much Spock (though clearly there was a relationship there). They “told” us the mind meld emotion was rough on Spock rather than “showing” us the depth of their connection. Quite honestly, I would have preferred to see Pike’s “crippled” scene be him in the radiation, saving the crew and dying that way (a very heroic death) with perhaps Kirk trying to then save him and being gravely injured.”

YES!! Although I think Pike was probably [and in my headcanon was def] Spock’s mentor at the Academy and his commander during 1- or 2-year missions. A long-term commander-mentee relationship.

419. Marja - August 26, 2013

RE: My 417/418: Numbers seem to have changed in the time it took me to type [!]

So Robman’s Retcon starts at 369 and runs thru 371 and TUP’s Retcon is at 378. : )
Fun reading, guys, thanks!

420. Marja - August 26, 2013

378 Keachick, I’m with you on that. He only referred to himself as “Khan” – which as I recall from things said here is a title, similar to Prince or King.

Perhaps they ALL call themselves that, and being “superior” they may believe they are the ones who should rule mankind.

Re your post at 398, I have found it ludicrous since I saw STiD that Marcus, all by himself, could marshal the funds, the personnel, and the materials to fund, plan, and build the Vengeance. Surely the Federation Council Starfleet Oversight Committee would have noticed billions of credits disappearing into Section 31.

Unless the Federation and Starfleet are vastly different from today’s organizations in various countries, there has to be oversight for funding – even for today’s CIA and NSA there are committees in the Congress to oversee budgeting for these. Budgets have to be justified. Thus it was nonsensical to me. And probably anyone else with a bureaucratic background.

401 MJ, Sorry, but Ms Saldana has herself said that she is Black and Hispanic. Many Hispanics face the issue seen by others outside their racial lines as you cast it here. They’re “either one or the other.”

She is both, having both lines of heritage. As I said above, African lines of ancestry run thru all the West Indies/Caribbean nations.

CORRECTION TO MY #417: [Saldana’s] from the Dominican Republic, a place in which Africans were held in slavery centuries ago. She’s from the Dominican Republic [once Hispaniola], where Africans had been held in slavery for centuries [starting around 1510, ending around 1790].

The Jim-is-not-Jim theory: I think it’s likely that his brother was back on Earth also. And every older sibling knows that the new baby gets all the attention. Also, Winona had just freaking given birth, so I can see George being all excited about his new baby son. However, a line “Tell Sam I love him” would have been really, really great, and sweet.

but 400, Ahmed, If Fox Mulder didn’t want to have coffee with Keachick [and why wouldn't he], he’d be welcome to meet me at my neighborhood coffeehouse – I’ve met a couple of other [not as handsome] Conspiracy Theorists there : )

407 RDR, per the comics, which Bob Orci has said are canon till he says they’re not, George Kirk exists in this timeline and has been living on Deneva, with its brand-new parasites [Operation:Annihilate retold in the comics].

A Place to Play With Ideas [and maybe not be put down for it]?

Maybe Keachick is just playing “What if?” A game I’ve seen many other people play here. She is not the only one who’s played with the Khan-is-not-Khan idea. I recall one person comparing pictures of STII WOK’s Joachim with pics of Cumberbatch and saying he’s gotta be Joachim. Another said the face in the cryotube that we see before “Khan’s” is the REAL Khan … and so on.

I don’t remember when Bob Orci came to tell us STiD’s villain was the REAL Khan, if it was before or after these posts by people OTHER than Keachick, but really, we can play nice without calling each other “crackpots”, can’t we?

Aren’t we here to play, theorize and discuss without getting into pitched battles and calling each other’s theories “wacko” and so on?

I’ve really been enjoying the board this last week because there wasn’t name-calling and defensive ripostes and stuff…hope I don’t need to put that in past tense {:/

421. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@417 I just prefer to take Zaldana are her own words regarding here race, not peoples “race analysis” of here here. I find the whole obsession by some her on worrying about what color or race her parents are troubling. It’s the 21st century. Zoe is Zoe.

This irritates me because similarity I don’t buy the continued “race change/skin color” assessment of Khan — a fracking fictional character in a fictional universe.

Enough people — let’s group up here. IDIC

422. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

@420

“He only referred to himself as “Khan” – which as I recall from things said here is a title, similar to Prince or King. Perhaps they ALL call themselves that, and being “superior” they may believe they are the ones who should rule mankind.”

OK, completely ignoring the fact that Bob Orci and JJ have already confirmed he’s “TOS Khan” in the movie, this view is just so weak. So, you are telling me that Harrison, who was been “thawed” for at least a year (probably several years), and who has been working with Marcus and others in Starfleet, would simply saying “I’m Khan” in that context?

Sorry, but this is lame and not logical. If he had sad, “I’m one of the Khans”, then maybe. Also, in TOS and in WOK, NONE OF HIS ACCOMPLICES referred to themselves as Khan or A Khan, yet now you are saying “they all call themselves that”? What we saw in TOS and WOK simply does not support that.

“Unless the Federation and Starfleet are vastly different from today’s organizations in various countries, there has to be oversight for funding – even for today’s CIA and NSA there are committees in the Congress to oversee budgeting for these. Budgets have to be justified. Thus it was nonsensical to me. And probably anyone else with a bureaucratic background.”

I agree. I posted way back in May that we must assume that the President of the Federation was supporting this, legal or otherwise. I made the analogy that this unseen Fed president would be like a George Bush type, whereas Marcus would be his version of Dick Cheney — the truly scary one of the two who is running the secret programs.

423. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

All of you people here who jumped all over Simon Pegg are going to feel like complete asses when you see what he says about the contest of those remarks — see the video in the link below (go to 13:29 on the video):

http://collider.com/simon-pegg-nick-frost-the-worlds-end-interview/#more-278367

424. MJ (The Original). - August 26, 2013

FYI — Looks like JJ Abrams is already running behind on Star Wars — now they are saying a Christmas 2015 release instead of Summer.

425. Matthias - August 27, 2013

I love STID, but I also hate it. The “Honest Trailer” is so damned true, but, well, the movie is great despite of that….

426. crazydaystrom - August 27, 2013

My God! To say that the Cumberbatch/John Harrison Khan is ‘a’ Khan but not THE Khan Noonien Singh of Space Seed and TWOK fame is just rationalization in the extreme! And it shows exactly what a mistake of inconsistency it was to use a popular canon character and cast an actor who is of radically different appearance to play him. Was it ‘cryo-bleaching’ or ‘surgical alteration’ or simply that ‘the character wasn’t who he said he was after he said he was someone else and who the creators said along he wasn’t but turned out to actually be…but maybe not’. Did I say simply?!? I’ve said repeatedly here and elsewhere that I want Star Trek to be intriguing and thought provoking but requiring this type of mental gymnastics and contortions to rationalize inconsistencies is not what I had in mind (no pun intended). And it’s indicative of bad writing or poor decision making or both.

Revisiting Khan – mistake IMO
Casting a very white Brit in the role – mistake IMO
Denying he’s Khan for the purpose of a jaw-dropping ‘reveal’ – mistake IMO
And
Standing on your head with your eyes crossed and your body twisted in a bizarre yoga pose in order to make sense of those mistakes – just illogical.

As I said upthread (in a post that was pulled for hours for what I have to assume was ‘vetting’) I don’t think K/O will attempt to ‘correct’ what they’ve done in STID by ‘retKhan-ing’ Cumberbatch’s character in the next movie. Nor do I think they should. To do so would be an admission of the mess they made of things. And worse it would just be disingenuous – “He’s not Khan! He IS Khan! Well no, he’s really not…not really.” That would lower Star Trek to the level of that old “Bobby’s not dead! It was all just a dream!” thing that Dallas did years ago. They won’t do that to my Trek. Please God no!

I’ll say again –
Move forward, let cryogenically sleeping Khans lie, and onward and upward to something bold and new. And intelligently consistent.

crazydaystrom,
Still and ever of Charleston, SC, USA

427. crazydaystrom - August 27, 2013

…who the creators said *all* along that he wasn’t …

428. PaulB - August 27, 2013

#421 MJ, thanks for the link to the Pegg/Frost video. I don’t feel like an ass about my reaction, but I am happy to see Pegg behaving like the person he’s always seemed to be, and I think that video should settle the story.

He doesn’t apologize here (I don’t think he needs to), but he does better. He says, “But I get it, of course you can have those opinions. For someone who’s been so critical of the Star Wars sequels, you know, it’s like, fair enough. But I’d expect those fans to say ‘f you’ to me, too.”

He’s not defensive or aggressive–he’s just the Pegg we’ve always liked. He sees himself as being among the fans, not above the fans, in a way that is different than the TOS cast.

He addressed the issue, admitted that fans have the right to those negative opinions (hint, hint, Trekmoviers). End of story. A classy guy said something classless, then settled it with a classy comment. (And some classy comments about Affleck/Batman.)

Thanks, MJ, for the entire video! (They’re almost as funny in an interview together as Pine & Quinto.)

429. PaulB - August 27, 2013

re 426 (Pegg’s quote should be, “But I would expect those Star Wars fans to say…” just to be clear which fans he meant. :) )

430. Jai - August 27, 2013

Re: #357:

“two different actors — neither of them having any ancestry even remotely associated with Punjabis — have played the fictional character of Khan.”

Well…technically that’s not quite true for Ricardo Montalban. Many people from the Mediterranean — which would have included the Spanish-ancestry Montalban — are descended from ancient Indo-European migrants, the same group many North Indians (especially Punjabis) are also descended from. It’s one of the reasons there are physical similarities between many Southern Europeans and North Indians. Our languages have the same ancient historical roots too.

Re: #389:

“A. you cannot do a film anymore showing terrorists played by folks from the middle east. In this quick to call racist society (especially in the last 1-2 years), you can’t afford to lose out on ticket sales, especially in the foreign market…by making Khan look middle eastern, you’d have all sorts of groups, totally ignorant of the characters background, calling racism on the writers for that one and brining up “stereotypes””

The basic logic is right, except for one major point about Khan (and Indians): India isn’t in the Middle East. It’s next to it, but so is Europe.

431. Jai - August 27, 2013

MJ, re: #412:

“Bob Orci, who wrote the screenplay, confirmed that it is “the Khan.””

Yep. For a while I suspected “John Harrison” may not be “the Khan” after I saw STID and read the novelisation, because it was the only explanation that made any sense to me. But I dropped that idea the moment Bob Orci confirmed it really was “the Khan” all along — the same Khan from Space Seed and TWOK.

Before STID was released, I did notice all the clues pointing towards “John Harrison” being Khan. The reason I refused to accept that the “Supreme Court” would cast Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan Noonien Singh was because I couldn’t believe any of them would actually be stupid enough to do this. I guess I overestimated Damon Lindelof’s intelligence — or underestimated his stupidity.

Fortunately Lindelof isn’t involved in Star Trek 3, so that’s one problem solved at least.

432. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

Actually, in Keachick’s defense…..even Alan Dean Foster questioned the identity of Khan in his novel of Into Darkness and if it was really Khan…although he did elaborate on the “I’m John Harrison because some bored technician might put 1 and 1 together and deduce my identity”…..

The novel is a great read and a good way to fill in the holes on some plot issues. The transwarp beaming adventure was described, logically, as a daisy chain of beaming.

The Enterprise underwater was eleborated further on…same with Spock’s device….actually, alot in the film was elaborated on and kinda helped fill in blanks.

433. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

Although, I will say this…in defense of casting Khan as anybody you want…the Eugenics Wars, at least in cannon form (not novels, etc) were never fully fleshed out and neither was Khan’s creation. It’s probably safe to assume that Khan was created in a lab, and later adopted into Indian Culture….he could have been created to look latin (like Montalban) or Indian, but either way, it’s a great plot device to say he was created in a lab and adopted into the culture which gave him his name Khan Noonien Singh….

I know most don’t consider them to be cannon, but the new comic series has been said to be cannon by Bob Orci…so, we’ll finally get an honest to god cannon backstory to Khan when his comic series is released.

434. Curious Cadet - August 27, 2013

@429. Jai,
“I dropped that idea the moment Bob Orci confirmed it really was “the Khan” all along — the same Khan from Space Seed and TWOK.”

Here’s the thing, and the reason you cannot rely on anything but filmed canon to support a claim — yes we know it was always Orci’s intention for Harrison to be the same Khan from TWOK. But, Orci also freely admitted that there is nothing in the movie that prevents a future filmmaker from revealing the ‘true’ Khan in a later movie set in this universe. The net effect of which is that a) the idea is far from preposterous as it is acknowledged respectfully by Orci, and b) it ain’t over until the fat lady sings.

So if there’s nothing in the movie preventing this possibility (good, bad or indifferent), then until rendered impossible by another onscreen reference, the ‘true’ Khan may still be revealed by another filmmaker who holds no allegiance to Bob Orci’s intent — say another filmmaker eager to make his mark on the ‘greatest villain in the Trek franchise’.

————————–
@431. Robman007,
“we’ll finally get an honest to god cannon [sic] backstory to Khan when his comic series is released.”

Yes, it’s sure to be ‘explosive’.

Just don’t count on getting a canon explanation for the change in Khan’s appearance.

435. Ahmed - August 27, 2013

@ 422. MJ (The Original). – August 26, 2013

“FYI — Looks like JJ Abrams is already running behind on Star Wars — now they are saying a Christmas 2015 release instead of Summer.”

No surprise there, with Abrams at the helm!
I do hope they will release the movie in May, otherwise it will feel a little stranger for a SW movie to come out in a different month. If they can’t release it by May 2015, then May 2016.

436. Danpaine - August 27, 2013

It shouldn’t be necessary to have to read a comic book after a movie to see how the (many) holes in the film script can be filled.

Money-grab, IMO.

437. Curious Cadet - August 27, 2013

@433. Ahmed,
“If they can’t release it by May 2015, then May 2016.”

I can’t imagine any world where Disney would release Star Wars during the Winter.

Which means Abrams’ Star Wars vs. Abrams’ Star Trek. Should be an interesting Summer. And if one has to move, guess which it will be. Anybody still think Abrams can direct both? Of course I didn’t see this coming … /s

438. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

435. Curious Cadet – August 27, 2013

Abrams won’t do both and Star Trek will end up being a fall/winter film. I think it could make much more money either early in the year or later in the year.

439. Jack - August 27, 2013

434. Exactly. And they are exactly that, holes. Commenters start saying that the phrase “plot holes” doesn’t mean anything and that people who use the phrase either a) just aren’t paying attention, or b) are unimaginative, and/or not so bright, and want to be spoon-fed explanations for everything. And I don’t think either of those is the case with the complaints about this plot. There’s a difference between ambiguity and nonsense.

When your story depends on convenient malfunctions and coincidences galore, well…

I’m starting to think that, maybe, Lindelof gets at least part of the blame for other’s follies. And it’s also a bit too easy to lay a bit too much blame on the suits (“the studio would never let us do x so we don’t even try…”).

Bob has said they’d cash in their chips when things started to get stale. Well, nothing’s staler than cribbing from a 31-year-old movie. But the thing pulled in $450 million worldwide, so they’re perfectly safe.

As Onion AV club Trek TV reviewer Zack Handlen tweeted (I know), STID was entertaining enough but dumb… and pretty much over once Quinto screamed “Khannnnnnn!”

And I still think this site is part of the problem. If the writers are constantly coming here, how can it not be a movie by committee?

440. Ahmed - August 27, 2013

@ 436. Robman007 – August 27, 2013

“435. Curious Cadet – August 27, 2013
Abrams won’t do both and Star Trek will end up being a fall/winter film.”

Star Trek doesn’t have to end up in the Fall or Winter, Paramount need to speed up the process & pick a decent director who can make a great Trek movie for the 50th anniversary.

Abrams is not needed to run Star Trek, I just hope he won’t delay Star Wars beyond May 2016.

441. Ahmed - August 27, 2013

@437. Jack

“As Onion AV club Trek TV reviewer Zack Handlen tweeted (I know), STID was entertaining enough but dumb… and pretty much over once Quinto screamed “Khannnnnnn!”

And I still think this site is part of the problem. If the writers are constantly coming here, how can it not be a movie by committee?”

Are you blaming us for the fact that the movie was dumb ?? The writers don’t give a rat’s a** what the fans think. Many of us on this very site asked them not to use Khan but they did it anyway. So, how are we part of the problem ?

442. Curious Cadet - August 27, 2013

@437 Jack,
“And I still think this site is part of the problem. If the writers are constantly coming here, how can it not be a movie by committee?”

I might agree with you, except they don’t seem to take away any advice they get here. Although the poll results are gone now, I’m pretty sure the overwhelming response was “no Khan”.

443. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

440…would be interesting to find those results, but I’m about 95% sure the results were Yes for Khan. Usually all the poles on this site are for something..it’s the comment section that hear from the 05% who hate everything…

444. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

438. Ahmed – August 27, 2013

I agree, it shouldn’t have too…I just think it would make more money if it stayed away from the Summer timeframe..too many sequels, comic book movies and CGI animated kids flicks to contend with…and don’t wait on Abrams either. Let him produce. Get a new director in with a new vision. Might do wonders

445. Red Dead Ryan - August 27, 2013

Disco Spock, Marja,

Thanks for the correction on Sam Kirk.

As for “Star Wars”, if its released in the summer of 2016, its really going to mess things up for the next Trek movie. Paramount will have to push the movie back to the fall/winter, or may end up having to forget about the anniversary date altogether and just release it in 2017.

446. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

398. Keachick …remember, Admiral Marcus was also the defacto head of Section 31…so, he seemed rather used to the idea of doing whatever he pleased.

Would be interesting to explore the character of Marcus as he was in the Prime Universe. I have no doubt he would have had Section 31 dealings..possibly even being responsible for some of the Enterprise’s missions during the 5 year mission…..for example, being behind the Enterprise’s mission in “The Enterprise Incident”…or sending an order to investigate a sector of space, knowing full well that they Enterprise would find and bring back Khan’s men….perhaps some involvment in Project Genesis…who knows..

447. Forrest Leeson - August 27, 2013

“But the thing pulled in $450 million worldwide, so they’re perfectly safe.”

Well, Benedict Cumberbatch is perfectly safe. If boxofficemojo is to be believed, total return on budget is up slightly but domestic return on budget dropped from ~170% to ~120%.

How to maintain international draw?

Hire Matt Smith as Koloth and dump tribbles all over him?

(pause)

Whoa. I’d actually go see that.

448. Curious Cadet - August 27, 2013

@441 Robman007,
“I’m about 95% sure the results were Yes for Khan”

That’s not at all what I remember. A quick search produced this article which seems to skew quite the opposite direction:

http://trekmovie.com/2009/12/24/what-do-trekkies-want-in-the-star-trek-sequel/

Someone put all the numbers together a while back before the polls disappeared, and the overall perception I recall having was anti-Khan. Can’t find it at the moment though …

449. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

446…fair enough…

I do love the irony…most slam the film for including Khan, yet one of the commen ideas as of late among fans was to bring back the Talosians for a sequel. Just funny.

It might just be me…I’ve had this discussion with other Trek fans in person and they agreed with me, but it seems that if you take Cumberpatch, do some CG aging, give him a horrible mullet, then he’d match up pretty good in terms of looks with Montalban’s version of Khan from Wrath of Khan. Khan was pretty white looking in that film compaired to his spray tan look in Space Seed.

450. Ahmed - August 27, 2013

@446. Curious Cadet

Thanks for the link to that old article. Clearly the writers didn’t care much about what we think here.

69% Said no to Khan …. [We got Khan]
41% wanted more character moments … [Nope, more action & little of that]
49% wanted the Klingons as the main villains … [Khan, again!]
56% wanted more screen time for McCoy. ..[Nope, the mighty Uhura ]

And here is the breakdown of the polls:

Khan in Star Trek sequel?

* Yes, he is the superior villain (6%)
* Maybe, but with a different spin (25%)
* No, been there, done that (twice) (69%)

tar Trek sequel should have

* More action/fights/space battles (13%)
* More character moments (41%)
* More sci-fi concepts/technology (14%)
* More humor (1%)
* More sexy scenes (2%)
* Keep same mix as first film (29%)

Villains for Star Trek sequel

* Klingons (49%)
* Romulans (3%)
* Khan & Genetic Augments (5%)
* Other TOS era villain (10%)
* Borg (6%)
* Cardassians (1%)
* Other TNG era villain (0%)
* Internal Federation villain (8%)
* New race villain (10%)
* Force of nature villain (9%)

Who should get more screen time in Star Trek sequel

* Kirk (7%)
* Spock (3%)
* McCoy (56%)
* Uhura (3%)
* Scotty (14%)
* Sulu (2%)
* Chekov (2%)
* Same mix as first (14%)

http://trekmovie.com/2009/12/24/what-do-trekkies-want-in-the-star-trek-sequel/

451. Keachick - August 27, 2013

I think that the Supreme Court decided to throw all the PU Khan Noonien Singh admirers (despite the fact that many said they hoped the character would not be in the film) yet another bone. I doubt that any other name has appeared more regularly than the name Khan on this site or many other ST sites over the last four years. The character, both negatively and positively, has received so MUCH attention that it would be hard for the film making team not to respond in some way – therefore they have…and boy, haven’t people made a meal of this new bone as well…How are your gums?

All I am doing is throwing back the bone and querying if this bone is the real thing or not. Lindelof, Orci and Kurtzman need to prove that this bone is THAT bone, something they have not done to my satisfaction so far. They know what they need to do and I have already explained it to people here.

Bob and co. – you really need to do something about fully explaining that bone in the only way that actually matters in terms of Star Trek (any universe). It is the compassionate thing to do. You know how people are…

452. Red Dead Ryan - August 27, 2013

#449.

“All I am doing is throwing back the bone and querying if this bone is the real thing or not. Lindelof, Orci and Kurtzman need to prove that this bone is THAT bone, something they have not done to my satisfaction so far. They know what they need to do and I have already explained it to people here.”

Oh for crying out loud! Bob Orci explicitly stated on this site that John Harrison IS Khan Noonien Singh…..not to mention that Spock Prime identified him as such.

Now could we just move on already???

453. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

I’m going to try to explain this, once again, in really easy to understand terms.

While Bob Orci and the other may care about what fans want, studio heads do not. Not..one…bit. Studio suits demand certain things. They want more action, more appeal, less “trek” moments. They want a certain amount of screen time for actors/actresses that they believe will help box office returns. They do not understand Star Trek. Who can blame them. They ask foreign movie goers and they want more action, less bridge scenes. They look at box office returns from the final 2 TNG films, one if which was made with all that “exciting” exploration with plenty of character development such as Worfs pimples and Data as a floatation device and the other film that fans just didnt care enough about to want to see…that is why you will these new films turn out the way they do. That is why a TV series will never be made the way they used to make them (because Enterprise and Voyager were soooooo successful)…just keep that in mind. Studio suits demands come before Trek fan wants. Trek fans don’t put out one hundred and fifty billion to make a film, studio suits do.

Besides, not all, but most Trek fans are a bunch a whiney assed, never pleased nit pickers who will cry until they get what they want then cry because it was not done the way “they” wanted it done. Just look back to 1987…I’m sure you can still hear that awfully familiar war cry of “that’s not my Trek” that went out at the start of TNG..again brought out for DS9 and now for Abrams Trek.

Not saying Abrams Trek is perfect, but neither was old Trek. Both share the same never satisfied always crying foul fan base and productions with plot holes a plenty.

454. T'Cal - August 27, 2013

As of last week, box office receipts are at $458M for a film that cost $190M. Next up, DVD & BD sales, which will likely be strong. I doubt they care that a few people here are miffed that they retold the Khan story. They were successful and you can’t argue with success.

Trekkers have to be the most splintered group of fans of any franchise. I only like TOS! I only like TNG! I only like nuTrek! I only want to see Shatner! I only want to see Stewart! Where’s my Sulu film?? Aaaaaargh!

455. ironhyde - August 27, 2013

#451 – Fan outcry, fan passion, has always been at the heart of Trek. It’s unfair for you to say fans are “whiney assed, never pleased nit pickers” — certainly they have opinions and they like to speak out, but that same outcry was what gave us TNG, what gave TOS it’s 3rd season, what gave us a motion picture. What got an actual shuttle, believe it or not, named Enterprise.

Fans disagree with one another, as all people do. Not psychological tests come back 100%, ever. But people who love something and believe in it’s world enough, guess what? They should be shown respect. Trek lives because of it’s fans. Simple as that.

456. K-7 - August 27, 2013

@449

WOW!! What a complete load of crap. Really, Rose? Really?

LOL :-))

457. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

@452… At least Star Wars fans have a right to complain. They waited a long time for new films and recieved a series of films and spin offs that just about killed the franchise in terms of respectability. Trek fans have recieved two highly rated films that, while suffering from some plot issues that only Trek fans seem to get irritated about, have brought the film franchise to new levels and have generated new interest in what came before. Usually a win win scenario.

Not a bad thing, but you ask some Trek fans and they act like someone dropped a liquid brown brick in their cereal. Mind boggling, especially from fans of a franchise that has frequently featured plot holes, sketchy writing, heatbeat sensors working on 1 to the 4th power enhancement and Spocks Brain.

458. T'Cal - August 27, 2013

Ahmed: Do we really know that that baby at the beginning of Star Trek 2009 is the same person as the older James Kirk that we see later in Star Trek 2009?

Consider this –we never see “the mother” of Kirk again, do we? And that supposed “brother” of Kirk — how does he show up so suddenly with now backstory — isn’t it very strange indeed that when George Kirk dies, that he doesn’t say one word to his wife about Sam..i.e. “tell Sam that I love him.” Why is this?

DiscoSpock: Obviously, the older Jim Kirk that we see in Trek 2009 is not the same person as the baby Jim Kirk.

With the scene deleted that shows “Johnny” running away just before young Jimmy steals the Vette, there is no on-screen indication that the older boy that Jimmy drives by is anything but a friend.

459. MJ (The Original). - August 27, 2013

@449 “Bob and co. – you really need to do something about fully explaining that bone in the only way that actually matters in terms of Star Trek (any universe). It is the compassionate thing to do. You know how people are.”

Bob, please don’t waste your time on this nonsense. This person is having some massive brainfarts.

Instead, please concentrate on the story development for the next movie. Please see my 7 points above in terms of how you might proceed in the next movie. And I would also again encourage you to read as many Star Trek novels as you can to generate some conceptual ideas for your story that are different from what we have already seen on screen in Trek.

460. MJ (The Original). - August 27, 2013

@437 “And I still think this site is part of the problem. If the writers are constantly coming here, how can it not be a movie by committee?”

If that were the case, then why did they pretty much ignore all the advice that we have given then? Did you see that poll — they completely ignored it?

You well meaning opinion is simply not supported.

461. Curious Cadet - August 27, 2013

@451. Robman007,
“Trek fans don’t put out one hundred and fifty billion to make a film, studio suits do.”

I think you mean “million”, but no matter — with alternatives like kickstarter, I wonder if the fans could all contribute to the 150 million and make their own films? All it would take is about 19 million fans contributing the cost of one average movie ticket.

That would be a fun process to watch, eh? 19 million fans trying to agree on the script, director, casting, etc.? I guess it would all be done by polls on Trekmovie.

But at the end of the day, the film is paid for. Nobody else even needs to see it (which probably wouldn’t happen unless the studio bought it and released it) — so long as the fans all get a copy. This might well be the future of movie making!

462. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

@ 453. ironhyde – August 27, 2013

Lets not kid ourselves. The fans that brought back Trek for a third season were far different then the ones that exist now. Those fans didn’t behave entitled.

Those same fans who helped get TNG complained about it for years on end because “it wasn’t their Trek”..then did the same to DS9 because it wasn’t TNG.

No, the fans I reference are the same silly fans that decided to vote a non Trek film, Shatners big Directorial snafu, the giant plot hole known as the Nexus, a movie featuring Data’s slow brother and finally a film that featured joysticks and Klingon pimples as better films then a film was, while not perfect by far, was much better then those turd ass examples.

Those are the whiners that give most Trek fans a bad name. Nothing wrong with demanding a better written 3rd act and improved marketing, but just sad to go to those lengths and receive a well deserved “f**k you” from Simon Pegg.

463. MJ (The Original). - August 27, 2013

STAR WARS NEWS

For all of you who keep talking about the Star Wars release date, it’s pretty much been determined that it will now be a Christmas 2015 release. And the production is all now scheduled and set, so it is very unlikely that this will be moved from this date.

464. Red Dead Ryan - August 27, 2013

Star Trek has the bitchiest, pickiest fanbase of all the pop culture franchises bar none.

465. Keachick - August 27, 2013

Oh dear…

466. Red Dead Ryan - August 27, 2013

#461.

Thanks for the update, MJ.

467. MJ (The Original). - August 27, 2013

So, presumably, in a 12-month period, staring in December 2015, we will have:

1. Star Wars Ep 6 (Dec 15)
2. nuTrek III (Jun 16)
3. Avatar 2 (Dec 16)

It’s going to be one awesome year for scifi!

468. Michael - August 27, 2013

Ok, so iTunes claims to have an exclusive enhanced commentary w/ the now online version of the movie. Does this mean only the optional audio is different than the physical copy yet to hit streets, not the video itself? I have a preorder for the Target 3rd disc exclusive w/ 70 min, and 50 excl to the Target release specifically.

469. Robman007 - August 27, 2013

459. Curious Cadet..

Thanks for catching that. I did mean million. I get frustrated when talking to most Trek fans that I make mistakes like that.

I don’t see a Trek production hitting kickstarter at all. New Voyages and other productions have gotten away with fan films due to the nature of the fan film. Kick starter is kind of reaching the downward slope of it’s 15 minutes of fame and is more and more looking like a failed experiement as deadlines are not being met and products are coming out less then advertised…plus, big companies like Nintendo are shutting down fan films left and right on quickstarter…

Besides, if a Kickstarter fan Trek film every comes into being, I’d be all for it. I have more respect for a fan that actually tries to go out and do something about it rather then a fan that just complains to no end about ALL versions of Trek, yet is unwilling to even attempt to write his own project, even knowing full well that Paramount would shoot it down. Hell, I wrote my own 3rd Trek film…I thought about submitting it, knowing full well it won’t make it anywhere…perhaps a novel, but CBS shot those down for the new franchise…there was a rambling diatribe on the New Voyages facebook site about why they would not see Into Darkness (due to the non stop never ending action and other things they didn’t care to actually watch the film first before judging it), but I respect them far more because they have done something about it in making very enjoyable fan films…

I know not everybody has those resources, but instead of falling back to the same tired “lets see new worlds adventure that we will sure hate and call boring when it really happens”..come up with something that fits the bill of the direction of the franchise and not embarass themselves like the convention fans did with that DUMB attention grabing survey.

470. Flaming Nacelles forever - August 27, 2013

lol, he said nuTrek.

1.) This site needs more articles so we can vent more effectively and with wider diversity.

2.) I am tired of being treated like an idiot when watching movies (oh, they won’t notice we’re dropping out of warp at the moon, then ‘boom’ were at earth).

3.) Is Paramount incapable of doing something original?

/so concludes my vent ;)

471. K-7 - August 27, 2013

“lol, he said nuTrek.”

Your humor is lost on me???

472. Ahmed - August 27, 2013

Any news at all about Anthony ?

473. Curious Cadet - August 27, 2013

Must-hear interview for all those hung up on the science minutiae …

http://www.scpr.org/programs/take-two/2013/08/26/33415/odd-hollywood-jobs-science-adviser/

474. OneBuckFilms - August 27, 2013

Mad Mann, RE: BobOrci’s tweet.

Forgive me if it was addressed here, but I wanted to put my 2 cents in on this.

The Quantum Mechanics reply was accurate, based on the MWI interpretation of time travel depicted implicitly in the movie.

When you have divergent timelines, a “reset” actually serves no purpose.

The original timeline, in fact, still exists.

After all, how can one reset a timeline when the timeline already exists in parallel ?!?!?

Talk about causality loop. :)

475. Phobos in City 45°N 73°W - August 27, 2013

For the first time ever, Star Trek has earned more abroad.

Domestic: $227,393,091 49.6%
+ Foreign: $231,300,000 50.4%

I can’t buy all the tickets myself (I bought so many it is even a bit embarassing to say how many now).
With only 144 theatres left in USA/Canada, looks like Star Trek foreign sales are now going to remain more important.

476. Curious Cadet - August 27, 2013

@473. Phobos in City 45°N 73°W,
“With only 144 theatres left in USA/Canada, looks like Star Trek foreign sales are now going to remain more important.”

It’s probably going to earn another 10-15 million in Japan if its opening weekend 4x multiplayer over ST09 holds constant, but the rest of the world has already earned the majority of what it’s likely to earn.

With digital downloads already online and the Bluray coming on the 10th, the US will likely close after next weekend.

So that’s it. Time to start watching the BluRay/DVD numbers … I’m curious what this early release is going to do for home video sales …

477. The Pastor CZ - August 27, 2013

Please new series title:

Star Trek StarBase

478. ObsessiveStarTrekFan - August 27, 2013

Apparently there are going to be a number of theatres in USA running double features of STID & WWZ on a single ticket price from 30 August to 5 September.

More info here : http://www.slashfilm.com/world-war-z-and-star-trek-into-darkness-double-feature-hits-theaters-friday/

479. Who cares - August 27, 2013

@478, Also reported here.

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/08/27/star-trek-world-war-z-bring-back-double-feature/?mod=yahoo_hs

480. ironhyde - August 28, 2013

462 –

First off, I agree STID was a decent Star Trek. I thought it brought up a lot of good ideas and played with a lot of interesting issues. But there is a problem when all of the villain’s motivation and character and behaviour is exposition. I didn’t FEEL the family Khan talks about. I didn’t SEE any of the hurt or bad that Khan believed was being done. Frankly, the movie said a lot and blew up a lot, but managed to not show enough of what mattered to it’s ideas.

I think coming to terms with the forced relocation in Insurrection, or the specter of Time in Generations, were far more powerful moments in Trek. I won’t ever forget how Scotty walked away from the Enterprise for what he believed in as right.. Unfortunately, what he did with that time was go to a bar and get shit-faced and act like a trounced child. Here I am laughing about the moment and the movie’s not even done. There’s something to be said, whether Generations was a great movie all-round or not, for the IDEAS in Trek. Meeting God, from probably the most basted Trek of all time, what an idea. What an epic journey. They went to meet God ….. Trek lives and dies on ideas. STID died on ideas.

481. DB - August 28, 2013

I think STID is a good movie and a good Star Trek movie. If anything I felt there was too much story to tell in the time allowed. The movie felt like an episode of “24” with an invisible clock counting down so the movie couldn’t linger on any one plot point too long and I think it robbed the movie of the depth that people would expect.

I read at one point that the writers were considering making two movies and maybe that would allow for more detail in the script in terms of establishing the conspiracy and who John Harrison is. Also scenes like Pike’s death could be given more of an emotional punch.

One thing I did find surprising on thinking about it was Harrison running from Spock in the ending. If he believed that Spock detonated the torpedoes and killed his “family”, wouldn’t he have attacked Spock on sight just for vengence’s sake? What is the point of living to fight another day when what you are fighting for is gone ?

482. Bamasi - August 28, 2013

480 – Well said.

483. Robman007 - August 28, 2013

@480….good points, good points.

We’ll never know until Paramount double dips on the DVD sets, but I wonder how much Khan back story was left on the cutting board in favor of pacing. I would have LOVED a flashback, ala the mind meld scene in Star Trek, in which showed Khan in the 20th century, his people, the Botany Bay, his work with Marcus, etc….or just dump the fake identity and show some background….

I didn’t really care for how quick he was to go villain again..I wish they would have done the spin of Khan actually being semi good and Kirk relocating him and his people to Ceti Alpha 5…

I can see the point about the ideas….but, without trying to sound argumenative, there are two versions of Star Trek, in my opinion. TOS Style Trek, which was action first, theme and ideas second (they had plenty of ideas, just not ram them down your throat style)..Kirk was quick to throw a punch or dive into obsession rather then think it over…and TNG Trek, which was ideas first. TNG Trek encompasses TNG, Voyager and parts of Enterprise along with 3 out of 4 TNG Films and The Motion Picture….

TOS Trek is TOS, DS9, Trek films 2-6, 8, 11-12 and parts of Enterprise. They just feel like action hits first with ideas quick behind, and that’s probably the issue with the new films from folks who fall into the TNG style..too much action..the ideas are there, but the story always comes down to a phaser or a fist fight with a little reflection and a smile to finish it off…just like Kirk likes.

484. Robman007 - August 28, 2013

Actually, correction…2 out of 4 TNG films….I don’t know where to put Nemesis…I put that into “Star Wars Episode 2 Clones craze dump bin”….the less I think about Nemesis and Insurrection, the better my day is..haha!

485. TUP - August 28, 2013

I was a big supporter of using Khan but in retrospect, they shouldn’t have done it, at least not this story.

Star Trek fans might want “new” but they want new new, not new old. ie. Dont mess with what we know. Khan changed too much and it was really quite arrogant of the writers to presume they could take a beloved TOS character and give him a new spin and have fans accept it.

Chris Pine physically resembled Kirk. Quinto physically resembled Spock (it was made a huge deal when he was cast). All the actors, in various ways, physically resemble the traditional look of the characters.

To now say “well come on, Khan is a fictional character in a fictional universe so what he looks like doesnt mean anything” is absurd. It matters not that RM was not Indian, all that matters is that he was dark skinned, dark haired and spoke with a certain accent. They should have cast an actor that resembled the character. When Cumberbatch blew them away in his audition and they wanted to cast him, they should have changed the story. Period.

On a side note, I liked Spock screaming Khhhhaaaaaannnn. I admit people in my theatre laughed but I thought it was an excellent and needed transition from the death of Kirk to a ramped up emotional “chase” that was coming. And it was excellently edited into the score.

486. T'Cal - August 28, 2013

Avatar 2? I was so bored by the liberal tripe that was Avatar 1 that I literally dozed off in the theater. Besides the derivative story, the writing weak and the acting was sub-par. Also, here’s the basic premise: the good guys are the aliens whose skin color is Democrat Blue, are literally tree-huggers living in a commune. The bad guys are the humans from the evil American Military. Almost made me puke.

487. K-7 - August 28, 2013

@485. I am so bored by YOU. You almost make me puke!

488. Jack - August 28, 2013

485. It was Pocahontas without the singing.

And I think Bob’s just yanking our chains with the QM stuff. And if not, it certainly explains some of the wonky logic in some of these plots.

It’s cool if you like STID. I was disappointed. It didn’t work as well as Trek ’09. It felt engineered. All movies are engineered, but this one felt like it. It felt like a product.

And I don’t think ideas mean anything unless they’re explored intelligently. STID and Elysium held ideas up to the lampshade, but didn’t really do anything with them. And I pdn’t thonk a Trek story necessarily needs to be a “THIS IS THE MORAL YOU DUMMIES” movie about ideas. I think STID did get it right to a point, it’s supposed about how characters grapple with the ideas, not just the ideas themselves.

489. Dave H - August 28, 2013

@485 “Avatar 2? I was so bored by the liberal tripe that was Avatar 1 that I literally dozed off in the theater. Besides the derivative story, the writing weak and the acting was sub-par. Also, here’s the basic premise: the good guys are the aliens whose skin color is Democrat Blue, are literally tree-huggers living in a commune. The bad guys are the humans from the evil American Military. Almost made me puke.”

This is perhaps the most moronic post I have read on the Internet this year.

And please keep your politics off of here, please. Good for you that you are a “Republican Red” — like we care?

My, how infantile. Grow up!

490. Red Dead Ryan - August 28, 2013

#485.

“Avatar 2? I was so bored by the liberal tripe that was Avatar 1 that I literally dozed off in the theater. Besides the derivative story, the writing weak and the acting was sub-par. Also, here’s the basic premise: the good guys are the aliens whose skin color is Democrat Blue, are literally tree-huggers living in a commune. The bad guys are the humans from the evil American Military. Almost made me puke.”

The fact that you’ve trashed “Avatar” — one of the modern day sci-fi classics — is bad enough, but what makes one want to puke here is your bringing politics into this thread. It was completely unnecessary, and is trollish behaviour on your part.

Please keep your obnoxious “opinions” to yourself next time, thank you!

491. Red Dead Ryan - August 28, 2013

#487.

“485. It was Pocahontas without the singing.”

“Pocahontas” sucked. It really pales in comparison to “The Lion King”, which, IMO, is the best Disney movie ever.

“Avatar” might share commonalities with “Pocahontas”, but is easily a much, much better movie.

492. MJ (The Original). - August 28, 2013

Jack, I am surprised that would “feed a troll” like that???

That person is obviously trying to push his right wing politics on us and bait us. I guess you snapped up the bait. :-(

I would suggest that everyone just ignore that toll.

493. MJ (The Original). - August 28, 2013

I think a lot of Trek fans are secretly — probably even unconsciously — jealous of Avatar, because there is the huge budget, ground-breaking, “strange new worlds” movie that Paramount can never seem to give us with Star Trek. We get grudge matches, and Cameron does a story that could have been a real scifi type of strange new world Trek movie.

And I get that angst.

494. Garak's Pride - August 28, 2013

Re: MJ

Yea, now that I think about it, Avatar is more like a classic Star Trek story than Star Trek into Darkness.

495. Garak's Pride - August 28, 2013

Re: Jack

What is wrong with the Pocahontas story, anyway?

Certainly it’s better than combining the George Bush story and Fast and the Furious to make a Star Trek movie like we saw this year?

Avatar has 10 times the meaning and emotional power of STID.

Give me a redux of the Pocahontas story as a scifi epic any day. I welcome it.

496. Red Dead Ryan - August 28, 2013

MJ (The Original). – August 28, 2013

“I think a lot of Trek fans are secretly — probably even unconsciously — jealous of Avatar, because there is the huge budget, ground-breaking, “strange new worlds” movie that Paramount can never seem to give us with Star Trek. We get grudge matches, and Cameron does a story that could have been a real scifi type of strange new world Trek movie.

And I get that angst.”

Well said! I think that its easier for James Cameron to break new ground with visual effects because he is doing it with his own franchises and partially funded by his own money. Paramount won’t allow a director the same leeway because they want to treat its crown jewel with kid gloves, and don’t want to risk damaging the franchise. If a director disagrees with them, the studio will just find someone else. “Avatar”, on the other hand, was created by James Cameron, the visual style was created by James Cameron, and the studio (FOX) isn’t going to get in his way since he has already proven himself to generate massive amounts of money for them in the past, ie, “Titanic” and “Aliens”.

Whoever directs the next Trek movie won’t have that freedom. Paramount is most likely looking to cut the budget for the third movie, and will only hire a director who will play ball with the studio. So that would rule out Steven Spielberg, Ridley Scott, Christopher Nolan, Duncan Jones, etc. It’s either going to be Rupert Wyatt, or Jon M. Chu for the next movie.

497. Vultan - August 28, 2013

Peter Weller talks about Robocop, what he thinks of a remake (and Star Trek gets a short mention), but stick around for the second half. He goes on a hilarious rant about driving—fake driving—in movies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPRETlCJA4s

498. Keachick - August 28, 2013

Yes, Yes, Yes to Peter Weller re driving on TV and movies. LOL

It has become so much more common for me to find myself yelling to this or that character behind the wheel of a car driving to WATCH THE BLOODY ROAD! I am sort of freaking out – yes, I know it is only audio-visual fiction but even so – Holy crap.

These scenes are so – NOT REAL and I hate to think what younger people are learning in the way of shockingly bad driving behaviour.

499. Vultan - August 28, 2013

One thing that drives me crazy (see what I did there) is tire squealing on dirt or gravel roads in movies. Tires don’t squeal on gravel. They grind.

Guess they’d have to get out of LA to know that.

500. Red Dead Ryan - August 28, 2013

Well, tires in New Jersey have learned not to squeal, either on the road, or on gravel. New Jersey is where squealing tires fear to tread. :-)

501. TUP - August 28, 2013

Avatar was awful. I always told people see it for the technology and spectacle but not the story. Boring and silly. Looked fantastic though.

502. Phobos in City 45°N 73°W - August 28, 2013

@476 Curious Cadet

I hope they keep STID in theatres a few more weeks. I am going back again this weekend. I pay for the STID ticket for the 13h movie, I buy the Scene combo which grants a popcorn, a drink, a candy and 1 free movie, then I use those points to go see a free 19h movie, other than STID.

Cineplex has made a fortune off of me in tickets and food since STID made me rediscover going out to the movies. They have a wonderful business.

Tonight I saw THIS IS THE END. You have to go see that comedy. So funny.

503. K-7 - August 29, 2013

@501 “Avatar was awful. I always told people see it for the technology and spectacle but not the story. Boring and silly. Looked fantastic though.”

OK, T’Cal………WHOOPS!!!…….I mean “TUP”

LOL

Like we are too dumb to deduce who is posting this! ;-))

504. Dave H. - August 29, 2013

K-7

That T’Cal must be the laziest troll around here. I mean, at least drop the T and then try not to again have the handle be 3 to 4 letters wrong.

I mean, how lame is that, dude. LOL This is one lazy, lazy troll. Ha! Ha! Ha!

505. Dave H. - August 29, 2013

@502. Agreed/ I saw it last night myself. Simon Pegg’s best comedy to date — a great mix of his comedy, Brit dis-functionality, and alien violence/wacky plot.

506. mjpeng - August 29, 2013

# 25. Smike

Spot on

507. Paulb - August 29, 2013

#500 Red Dead Ryan “Well, tires in New Jersey have learned not to squeal, either on the road, or on gravel. New Jersey is where squealing tires fear to tread. :-)”
***

(applause applause applause applause applause) Extremely well played, sir! :)

508. TUP - August 29, 2013

You people think I am another poster on here? Get a grip.

Avatar has about a 10% approval rating amogst my group of friends, co-workers etc. As visually impressive as it was, it was not a good movie.

509. PaulB - August 29, 2013

#508 TUP: Avatar has about a 90% approval rating among everyone else’s friends, so it’s good that you’ve been able to find that little clique of like-minded folks.

Some people overly revere Avatar, others overly condemn it. Simple as that.

510. K-7 - August 29, 2013

@TUP

If you are a legitimate poster here, then please reference any Trekmovie.com article and the post # where you have ever posted on this site before your Avatar post yesterday?

If you are a legit poster, then it should be no problem for you to identify past posts from “TUP” on this site.

Come on, I’m waiting…..

511. TUP - August 29, 2013

Why don’t you open your search function and type in TUP and stop being ignorant?

Ill accept your apology at your earliest convenience.

512. TUP - August 29, 2013

Since I feel like rubbing your nose in it:

http://trekmovie.com/2013/05/23/sexy-or-sexist-how-star-trek-into-darkness-turned-heroines-into-damsels-in-distress/

Post #80.

Or heck, how about THIS VERY ARTICLE beginning at post #340.

If you want to go back even further (like years), search The Unknown Poster. I shortened it to TUP when I began posting from my iPhone.

Checkmate.

513. K-7 - August 29, 2013

Thanks — you are right. Yes, sorry.

514. TUP - August 29, 2013

Peace!

515. Blue Thunder - September 8, 2013

Two days until pick up.

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