Phase II releases Kitumba as New Year’s surprise | TrekMovie.com
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Phase II releases Kitumba as New Year’s surprise January 5, 2014

by Matt Wright , Filed under: New Voyages/Phase II , trackback

Star Trek: Phase II (formerly New Voyages), the long running fan film project, has released its newest episode, titled “Kitumba”. This is a Klingon centric episode that was developed from an original 1977 Phase II script, when TOS was going to be re-launched as an updated TV series.

Originally a two-part story draft for the Star Trek: Phase II TV series in 1977, it was rewritten into a one-part episode for this production. A good deal of the episode takes place on Qo’nos, the Klingon homeworld: which was shot on location at Fort Ticonderoga, New York, and at a local restaurant. Members of the International Klingon Federation helped out with the location shoots.

The Phase II team is busy cranking out more episodes, their next episode “The Holiest Thing” is due out in February. And there are two more episodes at various stages in the production pipeline after it. “Kitumba” is the last episode in front of the camera for the founder of the project, James Cawley. He will be replaced by professional actor Brian Gross starting with the next episode due out in February.

Click on to watch “Kitumba”

More information on “Kitumba” and alternate viewing/downloading links, including versions with subtitles:

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?page_id=4475&postTabs=0

Comments

1. ST:EXP - January 5, 2014

Gentlemen… it’s visually excellent. But still suffers from micing issues.

Very echoed. Have them use a proper directional boom mic!!! Then in the post-production process, isolate the dialog track. EQ out everything else out of the vocal frequencies…. then compress the dynamics of that dialog track so it “sits” on top of the music and room tone.

Remove the naturally occuring on-set footsteps and clothes shuffling.

Replace it with stock foley-walking sounds… the Star Trek room tones will cover up the rest.

This will make a dramatic difference in the viewer’s perception. As it stands, I had to work real hard to hear the dialog clearly in the opening when the visitors arrive in the transporter room.

2. pilotfred - January 5, 2014

nice to see more phase 2 episodes and well done it looked stunning

3. Alex Prewitt - January 5, 2014

A Herculean effort from all involved. The most ambitious fan film to date. YMMV. Nice work, all.

4. The Snob - January 5, 2014

I love the project… The CGI effects are better than anything I’ve seen on televised Trek, and that kinda bothers me… How is it possible that a fanmade production displays better CGI effects than the ‘real deal’.?? Is it because of the almost 10 year gap between Enterprise and this….? This will puzzle me for days…

5. rblaine - January 5, 2014

Just watched the first ten minutes. Beautiful! I love the work you guys do. Many thanks for keeping the traditional look, pacing, music, and tone.

6. Vultan - January 5, 2014

Impressive CGI. In many respects better than TOS remastered. CBS should hire you guys!

7. CmdrR - January 5, 2014

Nicely done.

8. Scott McC - January 5, 2014

Watched the first 10minutes and will finish watching later this week.

The production values are excellent, with superb visual effects (I agree that it’s superior to TOS remastered), with excellent sets and use of original sound effects and music. Very nostalgic watching this as it’s like coming across some long lost episode from the original series.

Well done and thanks to all involved.

9. Alexander Ibrahim - January 5, 2014

@ST:EXP,

First off thanks for watching, and for your comments.

I’m the cinematographer on the show, and audio isn’t my bailiwick, but perhaps I can give some answer to your comments.

First off I have not had any comments about being unable to understand dialog in any of the screenings I’ve been in. I’ve screened the film in stereo, both on monitors and with headphones. I’ve also screened it on a consumer grade Sony surround sound system.

We do use Sennheiser and Audio Technica shotgun mics in production. (Lower end units like the Senneiser K6 series and Audio Technica AT897 and AT815R) I have that level of detail, because they’re mostly my personal microphones. Yes I’d love to upgrade the mics. New mics would definitely do a lot for us. There I a huge difference in the level of audio rejection with higher end mics.

The problem is that the show can’t afford the gear to do individual track recording for each mic, nor can we have a fully staffed professional audio department with qualified mic boom operators.

We do typically have an audio recording engineer who does a live mix. This is sent to the camera live, as on many productions.

I shot Kitumba on a Red One back in 2009, and frankly can’t remember a lot of details of audio for that shoot. Things haven’t changed much though, so I’ll share some of our practices on The Holiest Thing, which we lenses in June 2013. We also shot that on a Red One.

Since Kitumba, we have added some wireless lavalier mics to the shows complement of wired shotguns.

The mics are mixed down using an Azden FMX 422 mixer and sent to camera via XLR. We also split them out and recorded the audio on a Zoom H4N recorder. The audio recorder is more highly compressed and is used mostly as a “safety” recording.

Not exactly ideal.

Now, if the audio bothers you enough, I’m dying to get my hands on a Sound Devices 788T-SSD. That would allow is to record each mic separately and a mix. It would also let us send timecode out from the mixer to camera and a digital slate so we can more easily sync in post.

10. Cervantes - January 5, 2014

I’ve never watched any of these before, but this seems to be a very ambitious ‘fan-made’ effort, so well done to all concerned.

It’s not really my kind of thing as I comes across as almost a parody of the classic TOS show to me personally…but if it satisfies a niche for others, then fair enough.

I’ll just file this as being set in yet another completely different, ‘alternate Trek universe’ to the classic show, just as I do with the other Trek shows and the current J.J. movies. But all power to all you guys and gals involved.

11. dennycranium - January 5, 2014

@ st:exp
Yes, the mic issues drive us nuts.
We do the best we can. I hope you can see past this issue and enjoy the episode based on story alone.
It was a Herculean effort for all involved.
We’re proud of it!

12. Sewanee - January 5, 2014

Very well done, indeed. The only issue I have is with the fight scene at the end: it could have been choreographed a bit better; other that that, what a nice job!

13. Larry Talbot - January 5, 2014

This is a wonderful episode. I think the Director Vic montagna deserves enormous credit. The staging was wonderful and he succeeded in getting some great acting moments out of the principles and guest actors including himself. Expert editing is always the icing on the cake (well more than just that). But the editor only gets to work with what the director grabbed to begin with. It’s good news that phase 2 was able to finally get this out. It was looking like p2 might have been withholding the episode just so the director wouldn’t get the kudos he deserves.
Congratulations to every one involved .

14. pyroboy - January 5, 2014

Larry,
You are right. Expert editing only gets to work with what the director grabbed to begin with. Without the editors and the post production team 100′s of hours of painstaking work, the episode would have been probably shelved. The Director and everyone else received the proper credit they deserved. We are all very happy the episode was finally released!

15. dennycranium - January 5, 2014

Larry,
You couldn’t be more wrong about P2 about wanting to shelve the episode.
Everybody involved making this episode wanted it released.
If anything, it was the director who held up this episode being released.

16. Ahmed - January 5, 2014

Looks great with good special effects for a fan production.

17. Larry Talbot - January 5, 2014

I understand that the director actually put out a “director cut” that he was happy with long ago. I think it was all moving too slow fog, not too fast

18. dennycranium - January 5, 2014

Larry,
What Vic released was not authorized by the producers at P2.
There were numerous problems with Vic’s cut.
Seeing the new authorized version is definitely better in my opinion.

19. Ahmed - January 5, 2014

I hope that future fan film projects will move away from TOS era & explore future Trek history with new characters.

20. Larry Talbot - January 5, 2014

I understand. But the notion that Vic was trying to hold things up doesn’t seem quite right–when it seems he wanted to get something out. (Yes this version is better is better than his directors cut but he doesn’t get no credit. I think the success of this edit is due in part to him just as the closing credits indicate.

21. Verg - January 5, 2014

Vic is credited as director.

22. Larry Talbot - January 5, 2014

Right. That’s what I’m saying. He rightfully deserves the credit he’s getting.

23. dennycranium - January 5, 2014

Let’s focus on the performances of the episode.
I’m glad that P2 released this episode.
I’m proud to have been a part of it.
The recognition should go to the post production team who worked tirelessly to make the release date.

24. Larry Talbot - January 5, 2014

I think they _were_ credited.

25. Larry Talbot - January 5, 2014

And as I recall Mr Crowley announced after previous missed released dates, that p2 was never going to announce a release date until the episode is in hand. If it was a challenge for the post team to meet the date, maybe p2 should have just done what he said was gong to be done from now on.

26. Al Hartman - January 5, 2014

Everyone involved worked VERY hard to make this episode, and nobody was more annoyed than us that it took so long to work everything out to get all the footage to the post-production team so it could be released.

But, we are all VERY happy with the work the post team did, and how fast they got it done considering that they only got all the footage about three months ago.

I love this episode, and I refuse to criticize it. If the fans who didn’t help make it knew of all the problems and hurdles that were overcome to get this to them, they’d refuse to criticize it too.

My mega Kudos to everyone involved with getting this episode made, edited and released. You all did a wonderful job under less than optimal circumstances.

And to repeat a quote: “You ain’t seen nothing yet!”

27. Dswynne - January 5, 2014

@9 (Cervantes): Do us all a favor, and turn in fandom card. Your back-handed compliment ignores the fact that most of the participants in these projects are amateur actors who love the ‘Trek franchise enough to work for free, under tight fundraising and distribution rules. At very least, these fan projects are actually being produced, whereas CBS does nothing to nurture Paramount’s efforts, and is perfectly happy to simply re-issue the same episodes, George Lucas-style. Are there good and bad fan projects? Yeah, but I enjoy them for what they are: a series of love letters from a segment of the entertainment fandom that is desireous for more ‘Trek.

28. Larry Talbot - January 5, 2014

Mostly I just love love love this episode. Credit is deserved by everyone involved in call phases: pre, filming, and post. I love everything about this episode.

29. Capes - January 5, 2014

It was well done. ‘Nuff Said!

30. Jeff Stimson - January 5, 2014

I wouldn’t be a Trek fan if I didn’t have a few nitpicks. I found it odd that there was so much beaming up and down without any detection. We’re at the Klingon homeworld and Kirk and Co. can beam down to a public presentation of the leader? It wasn’t until later on that they did the rerouting thing, but before that there was a lot of travelling without any consequences. I was also not a fan of Kirk’s line about stealing the car as a boy. Kirk did that in the JJ universe since he was a troubled kid without the influence of his father and had a somewhat abusive uncle. “Our” Kirk was very disciplined growing up and not the brash delinquent we saw in the 2009 film.
However, I do recognize the work and effort that has gone into the production of a fan film. Kudos to all since there is a lot to like about it. Each episode has shown marked improvements and I eagerly await the next.

31. dennycranium - January 5, 2014

@ Jeff Stimson,
I loved the line about the Corvette.
See all of us Trek fans are different, I guess.

32. MJ - January 5, 2014

Why do they have Kirk have the big hissy fit when he’s introduced to the Klingon at the beginning of the movie. Kirk is rude, condescending, and overly emotional, and frankly makes an ass out of himself in front of everyone in that scene. It was really cheesy and lame.

33. Larry Talbot - January 5, 2014

Yes, I think that for every fan who could have done without thAt line, there’s a fan who thinks it’s knee-slapping, shoot milk out through your nostrils funny and thinks its the highlight of the episode. There are all kinds of Trek fans: highbrow and lowbrow.

34. Ronnie B. - January 5, 2014

Do the folks behind this fan film have permission from the Kitumba screenwriter to do this? Because if they don’t, then this is plagiarism.

35. Eodeon - January 5, 2014

@Jeff Stimson, though I love this episode, of course I have few nitpicks of my own. I’m only glad those are details so minor, that they don’t even deserve mentioning. But I was interested in the points you raised so allow me to answer. Firstly, Kirk’s party didn’t beam down to the public presentation, but obviously behind the city walls. And there was no reason for anybody to stop them at that moment, nor we have no idea, if their transporter signals were or weren’t monitored. They probably were. After that, they got transported by Kargh from the planet and the signal was covered. They probably have their own mean to disguise the signal on the Enterprise that they could have used anytime. You are right, that Kirk should not have stolen the car in the prime timeline, but who knows, maybe the fanfilmmakers from Phase 2 didn’t know at the time, that JJ will create a separate timeline. And as for Kirk’s disciplined growing up… after reading the novel Best Destiny, I wouldn’t be so sure about that either. Sure, sure, books are not canon, but who cares about canon. They still influence our idea of characters, pretty much like great fanfilms like Kitumba.

36. Mark Anton - January 5, 2014

Very impressive production. I’ve been a fan of this series since the beginning, and it’s been so great watching it grow and improve. That being said, I do feel it was unnecessary to try to make sense of the differences between the TOS and post-TOS Klingon makeup. We all know that the real reason for the difference was simply a makeup choice probably due to a difference in budgets. I’ve always liked the original Klingon look, and was pleased that Phase II had decided to go that route (until now). Just my opinion, and I hope that further episodes continue with the TOS look. Keep classic Trek classic, I always say.

37. The Keeper - January 5, 2014

It’s always good to see a bunch of middle age out of shape belly flubbing fan boys playing mimic the original actors in the poorest possible way. . Hopefully it’ll keep them from breeding…

38. Eodeon - January 5, 2014

And I must add I never saw a fanfilm with better CGI or better masks and make-up and I was immensely impressed with the exterior sets on Qo’noS. When they beam down and you can see the building of High Council behind them, that was for me one of the best moments in any fanfilm I have seen (and I have seen plenty). Or those new designs of Klingon ships and how detailed every models are, that’s a brilliant job for sure. I can’t wait for the next episode.

39. TonyD - January 5, 2014

Just got thru watching the episode; nicely done with some really good FX and production values. The acting was also quite solid across the board on this one. Some of the crowd scenes were a little iffy (I kept getting images of the costume contest at a Trek convention) but overall there is no denying the passion these guys have for Trek and their stories are far truer to the spirit of the original show than anything since the TOS movies.

Gonna miss seeing James Cawley in front of the camera but here’s hoping all the good folks behind these shows continue to get the chance to make them. They’re clearly enjoying themselves and that collaborative spirit and sense of fun (something sorely lacking in Trek for a long time) comes thru in the final product.

40. ncc-73515 - January 5, 2014

So they had a council on ENT, then the kitumba, and then a council again?
When the teacher appeared, I was sure it must be Gorkon… while it’s very nice to see some of the greatest costumes brought to life again, this seemed misplaced not only in time.

The cruisers looked awesome! I always liked the qItI’nga’ and really enjoyed seeing them rendered so nicely! :D

41. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire - January 5, 2014

James Cawley and staff at Phase 2. That was simply wonderful. I almost believed that this was a true Tos Episode. The Writing and directing and the Fx was incredible. Well Well Well Done.

42. Rigel - January 5, 2014

McCoy: [to Akaar] What Maab has said is true. Our customs ARE different. What the Klingon(( aka the Keeper post #35)) has said is unimportant and we do not hear his words.

Pfft

43. Capt AFR - January 5, 2014

@The Keeper You are a troll and a useless one at that. Fortunately, you are in the minority which means there aren’t many of you to breed either.

44. Trektech - January 5, 2014

# 35
Seems to me this comment is nothing but trolling and inappropriate here. Anthony? Letting that sort of trolling garbage on here is a great way to kill both enthusiasm and participation and clearly has no pace here.

45. MC1 Doug - January 5, 2014

To #35: The Keeper, BOOOOO! Keep your snippy remarks to yourself please.

The very fact that ST: Phase II has been going at this for ten years says a great deal about their talent and love for all things TREK.

What exactly have you done to keep Star Trek alive? Answer? tick tick tick…we’re waiting.

Cawley and his crew have put out eight episodes now and they have done it for free and for us fans.

46. RenderedToast - January 5, 2014

Oh god, this is still going on? How many years do you commit yourself to pretend to be someone else? Make your own legacies guys.

47. AdmNaismith - January 5, 2014

@Alexander Ibrahim

I am a Production Sound Mixer, and I can say that this sounds fine. Low budget, but clean.
The Ent stuff sounds fine, and the Klingon Hall stuff sound suitably echo-y.

Consider the SD 633 (or SD 664) for recording, and swapping to hypercardioid mics (eg: AT 4053).
The biggest mistake neophytes make is using a mic that’s too long. For interiors and close exteriors, you want a hypercardioid mic). Outside, you rarely want more than a short shotgun (eg: AT 4073).

In the absence of any new gear, get your coverage with the characters, and/or do wild lines on the day to cover yourself. You probably did some ADR here, but don’t forget wild lines.
Also, planting mics helps with stationary talent.
Good stuff, keep it up.

48. MC1 Doug - January 5, 2014

To the crew of ST: Phase II: Kitumba is awesome. I loved it. I think it is one of the best episodes they have done to date.

Lots of intrigue, new plot developments, some pretty fun “Easter eggs,” like McCoy saying he hopes not to live into the 24th century… Kirk mentioning wrecking the Corvette; seeing Q’ronos’ moon; the political intrigue, etc.

Cool guest spots from Gil “Buck Rogers” Gerard and a little cameo from Andrew Probert, the designer of the refit NCC-1701.

The SPFX are astoundingly good! Better than even the remastered TOS from Paramount.

All in all, a great film. I give it an A-/B+ and yet more proof that Star Trek needs to return to the small screen!

Thanks, Phase II, I cannot wait to see the further adventures of this show.

49. Bill Lutz - January 5, 2014

I would seriously think by now that TrekMovie.com and its moderators would actually moderate their forums to prevent vicious and malignant comments that have nothing to do with the subject matter at hand from being posted. Clearly the comments from The Keeper are designed ti incite a flame war and malign the people at Phase II who have done w wonderful job producing an episode of a a caliber never before seen by ‘fan’ productions.
C;mom TrekMovie, please dont let the trolls ruin what is a good thing.
Thanks

50. Pony Horton - January 5, 2014

@30 MJ, yes Kirk was being rude; that’s why I came off the platform grabbing my whip,teach that Earther some respect! (wink wink).

@ 40 ncc73515, I figure K’sia is an ancestor of Gorkon, probably his father or uncle.

In my mind, I tried for a flavor similar to Anthony Hopkins in MASK OF ZORRO while playing the part.

51. Hat Rick - January 5, 2014

I like this production.

Gil Gerard is a familiar face, although I remember his acting style was different in the late 1970′s and early 1980′s.

52. Blue Thunder - January 6, 2014

One of the many things that can be said about the popularity of Star Trek, as well as its longevity, is the series’ ability to address the social and political issues of the times that we live in.

Through the creative tracking of science fiction writing, Star Trek has been able to make various forms of social commentary on controversial situations. Situations ranging from hot-topics about war to overpopulation to environmental problems to other more immediate and domestic problems that continue to affect our planet and human society to this day.

As the late Gene Roddenberry intended, Star Trek is a 23rd Century morality play/social allegory that holds a mirror up to us. One fully dictating what gets reflected back and describing the cultural and political issues of our world.

The latest episode of the award-winning Star Trek-New Voyages/Phase 2 does an excellent job in upholding that tradition that began nearly fifty years past. One that delivers with dazzling results.

Despite the behind-the-scenes production problems that were
instigated illegally by Vic Mignogna, as well as his and Michele Specht’s unprofessional behavior and juvenille antics, ‘Kitumba’ shows brilliantly what Star Trek still does its most best at. If nothing else, this well
written episode by both the late John Meredyth Lucas and Patty Wright depicts the brutal absurdity of war and the mishandling of political power.

Two social and political issues equally handled with excellent, crystal clear as glass, and razor-sharp results.

Like Star Trek VI-The Undiscovered Country, Kitumba gives Star Trek fans another glimpse into the Klingon Empire’s culture and government. One that clearly depicts the inner workings of the latter and what often happens within the corridors of power, itself. The mishandlings, if not misuse, of government power and the consequences(often ill-fated and fatal), there of.

We are also given a brilliant fortaste as to what is yet to come, concerning the formation of the Klingon High Council. The seed of such an idea, for which, is formed in the mind of the Kitumba(a descendent of the great Klingon Warrior Kahless), himself. A character played brilliantly by newcomer Kario Pereira-Bailey.

“Kitumba” depicts the U.S.S. Enterprise on a suicide mission to the heart of the Klingon Empire. Pulled in every direction by warlords and people that have their own agenda, the Kitumba suddenly finds himself confronting his very enemy: Captain James T. Kirk and the crew of the starship Enterprise. The choices he makes will resonate through the galaxy for years to come.

Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise are sent on a secret mission to the Klingon home world Qo’nos, much of which is still very shrouded in mystery to the Federation and Starfleet. With the help of a Klingon that is aiding the Federation, Starfleet Intelligence learns that a strong faction within the Klingon government is planning a war on a massive scale against the United Federation of Planets in strict violation of the Organian Peace Treaty. The leader of this growing faction is bold because it appears
the Organians are no longer monitoring the activity between the Federation and the Empire. It becomes the job of Kirk and crew to thwart this attempt at war which would ultimately mean the destruction of both sides. Kirk finds himself walking on the razor-sharp edge of Klingon tradition, duty, and their perception of honor.

The extended-length episode not only explored Klingon society and showed us the home planet, but it bridged the gap between the TOS Klingon Empire and the Klingon Empire we would later see in the first six feature films.

As with the previous exciting episodes, James Cawley, Brandon Stacy, John Kelley, Charles Root, Jr, Jonathan Zungre, Patrick Cawley, Paul R. Sieber, Bobby Quinn Rice, Wayne W. Johnson, Ron Boyd, and to some degree Kim Stinger, do an excellent job in playing the main characters that many fans of the original series have come to know and admire for almost a half a century.

It is a shame that Stinger has been seduced by the ‘evil side of Star Trek fandom’ by becoming a part of Vic Mignogna’s twisted, spiteful, and petty rip-off known as Star Trek Continues. Her true talents are really put to very productive use in this awesome Phase 2 episode. It is both sad and un-nerving that they will now be wasted in Mignogna’s toxic waste disposal-like, rip-off of a production.

On the subject of Mignogna, both his performance, as well as that of his fiance Michele Specht, clearly indicate that these two mentalities of such extreme toxic dementia, were just playing themselves. Their characters’ personalities are nothing more than just their deceitful, petty, spiteful, vindictive, demented, perverted, unprincipled, poisoned, and toxic natures buried under so much make-up prosthetics. Thankfully, the 23rd Century Klingon ‘Bonnie and Clyde-like’ characters that they so-call ‘play’(which happen to be members of the dishonorable and ill-fated Duras family)are killed off near the end, thus ridding and cleansing the universe of their deceitful presence, forever.

There are definately some wonderful and exciting moments in this latest P2 adventure. Plus a few well-written in-joke references to past and future Star Trek events. Kirk mentioning about how he hijacked a corvette and McCoy claiming that he won’t live to see the Klingon Empire in a century were both very brilliant and delightful.

Especially the unique plot twist involving both the Kitumba and the teacher(played wonderfully by Pony Horton)in the Enterprise briefing room. That scene was a huge surprise and a very brilliantly executed one at that. Such plot twists have been rare in Star Trek. This one particular plot twist clearly depicts the complexities of politics and the Machavellian webs of deceit that often go hand in hand with such power plays. Let alone the power players who impliment and execute such agendas. Kudos and compliments to Patty Wright for adding those extra layers into the original script.

The special cameo appearances by Gil Gerard(of the Seventies version of Buck Rogers), Andrew Probert(who worked on the ST-TMP production), and Kenneth Thomson(Captain Raymond Martin of Starship Saladin)were also well acted and delievered brilliantly. The references to Epsilon 9 and the Organians preminition of the Federation and the Klingons working together added another multi-dimensional layer to the classic script written in the Seventies(i.e. when Star Trek nearly came back as a series, before becoming an epic motion picture).

An extra special kudos should be awarded to Paul R. Sieber for Prescott’s one-liners in certain scenes. The briefing room scene involving Prescott, Peter Kirk, and Pavel Chekov discussing strategic countermeasures was played brilliantly and with some good humor. Even when Prescott is disguised as a Klingon, he delievers some excellent one-liners while searching for Kirk and the landing party.

Even the references to Earth’s world history(feudal Japan and England when it wasa Roman Colony)and its comparisons to the culture and social-political structure of the Klingons was also ingenius.

While it is sad that this will be James Cawley’s final appearance as the heroic Captain James T. Kirk(James will be continuing as P2′s Senior Executive Producer)Star Trek– New Voyages/Phase II delivers another exciting and bold new adventure in ‘Kitumba’.

One that clearly and brilliantly points out that with each new episode, Star Trek-New Voyages/Phase II is still THE BEST and ONLY THE BEST in Star Trek fan films.

Once again, my congratulations to James, the P2 cast, and the P2 production crew for delivering another spectacular and thrilling ST-NV/P2 episode.

I look forward to the next upcoming episode on Valentine’s Day and many more in the near future.

53. Hat Rick - January 6, 2014

One other thing: This is the best fan production I have encountered in a very long while, perhaps ever, and it seems to me that the series is improving with every episode. Those who think that the acting is amateurish may have their point, but we should keep in mind that these productions are a labor of love. It’s disappointing that when we see a film with such excellent production values, attention to detail, and truly impressive special effects, there are those who would focus only on the negative aspects of it.

On the audio issue, I do notice some room for further improvement — for example, footsteps are heard that make the starship bridge sound like a set, and there are a few subtle echoes when actors speak their lines that would not be heard in a professional production. But these things could possibly be fixed through dubbing and digital correction.

All in all, a very impressive effort. Congratulations to the Phase II cast, crew, and production company.

Note: I have seen the first 12 minutes of this film and base my comments on same.

54. TrekinPA - January 6, 2014

To James Cawley and the crew of P2: Congratulations on producing another outstanding episode. I enjoyed it very much. It is clear by your hard work, dedication and attention to detail, that all of you should be very proud of what you have accomplished. Thank you for giving us more tales of the U.S.S. Enterprise and her loyal crew. Oh, and the Corvette reference wasn’t an issue with me. Kirk had a “wild“ side too. Watch “Wolf in the Fold”, where he tries to tell Spock about the “women that are so…….” Kirk also reprogrammed the computer so that he could beat the “no win scenario”. Just because there are alternate universes, doesn’t mean the same things can’t happen in both universes. If it makes anyone feel better, Shatner tells a story of how he often “borrowed” his neighbor’s motorcycle at night as a teen and took it out for a spin. One day, he saw a forsale sign on it. When he asked his neighbor why he was selling it, the neighbor said because it had terrible gas mileage!

55. Joe Stains - January 6, 2014

I think these guys do a fantastic job on the limited means that are available to them.

All you cry-babies, panty-brats and bed-wetters think you can do better? Put your money where your mouth is, go out there and prove it!

I’d like to thank all the team at Phase 2 for their hard work, devotion and talent

56. Frank Fischer - January 6, 2014

Just AWESEOME! Thank you so much! Congratulations to the team of Phase II!! Let the future continue! :-)

57. Dr. Image - January 6, 2014

Great episode. Somewhat wordy though- could gave been pared-down. Obvious it was intended to be a 2-parter. Audio didn’t bother me as much as a few of the performances. (Redshirt scenes were great!) I’m perplexed as to why the space fx shots are diffused. They shouldn’t be. Speaking if diffusion, the fuzzy transporter effect is simply BAD.

58. Jeffrey S. Nelson - January 6, 2014

Yes, sound problems persist that detract from the experience. Great visual effects. So-so acting. Gotta say that Vic Mignonga is a much better Kirk all around. The “professional” actor that replaces James Cawley seems less than impressive, with no slight intended to him as an actor in the business. Mignonga just brings a higher degree of Kirkishness to the character like Shatner, including good hair. What I really like is the new recordings of original series scores in the Phase II productions…I’d really like a cd of these. The fight scene score in “Kitumba” is a new recording of TOS music, and it is just great. Look forward to seeing James Cawley as James West if his “Wild Wild West” web series is produced.

59. Oscar - January 6, 2014

Again: the original timeline is the past, the present and the future of Star Trek.
Abrams trek is only a footnote.
Phase 2 and renegades is the proof.

60. dennycranium - January 6, 2014

Whoever made the comment about “I hope this stops the from breeding.” I have a few suggestions:
Get out from being your keyboard and come to Ti and tell us to our face.
Or build all the sets, hire all the actors and spend all of your own money to produce them. Do it all out of love for Trek.
You sir, a pussy and a bully hiding behind his keyboard.
Come to Ti this June and help us make it better. You’ll be welcomed with open arms into an incredible family.
I doubt you have the courage.

61. Weerd1 - January 6, 2014

I loved this, but it would never find a wide audience outside of fans. I am glad Phase II is here as it scratches an itch JJ can’t due to the sheer reality of the entertainment industry. We should thank CBS/Paramount for allowing this stuff but the idea that it would supplant the big productions is not realistic to the market. Kitumba is TOS reincarnate but not going to pull in audiences like ’09 or STID. Paramount’s not out to make art, they are out to make money.

Fantastic job on the part of this production though, and I am glad to see one more turn for Cawley as Kirk before the switch in February.

62. c - January 6, 2014

Love it
Simple and Low tech
and very costly to you all I’ know, but thanks I needed that…

63. Ronnie B. - January 6, 2014

Jesus Christ, that was bad. It LOOKS like the original series, yes, but the acting SUCKS, right across the board.

And John Meredith Lucas’ family would likely be unhappy at this blatant plagiarism of his work.

64. Colombo - January 6, 2014

I’d happily clean Uhura’s boots with my tongue, same goes for that female Klingon

65. falcon - January 6, 2014

I will say to many of the naysayers on this board who expect so, so much more from a fan-based, doing-it-for-free (or low cost) production, this is clearly a labor of love. Don’t knock the end product if you don’t know the labor that went into it.

We may all have our nits to pick about this or that in the production, but when someone does something that they love purely for the love of doing it, there’s no reason to bad-mouth them. We all have projects we’d do as real jobs and we’d do them for free if we could do just that. Things that make us happy. Don’t rain on someone else’s picnic. My opinion only.

66. Gary - January 6, 2014

I’ve seen every episode of P2 and there isn’t an “And the Children Shall Lead” in the bunch. ‘Kitumba’ is a great episode. Nicely done, people. I can see the love you all put into it.

One point that I’d make is that these “amateur” productions show us how difficult and expensive it is to make good television entertainment. So while it’s easy to criticize, I’m pleased to be entertained and learn something as well.

67. c - January 6, 2014

It is precisely because of the naysayers from people that think they are trekies, when in fact they are not, that we don’t have have a trek series on tv and/ or the movies coming out faster…

They say that there just complaining about quality to make sure they get it. Well quemasabe your not getting anything and even when you do get a movie every 5 years or so and one that makes lots of money, you’re still not happy.

Regarding better written movies:
Look at the Bond movies, most were bad, but they still made and make them.

Ok now you can take me apart, I will not answer, you know I’m right period!

68. Blue Thunder - January 6, 2014

@58 – Vic Mignogna is not good at anything acting/directing/and writing wise at all. All he has ever been good at is trying to take over other fans film projects and pushing the original creators out of the limelight, just to satisfy his own selfish ends. hence why he is known as ‘The Doomsday machine/Black Hole’ of fan films.

Here are what others have to say about him and his business partners at Farragut Films.

http://trekmovie.com/2012/03/26/new-star-trek-fan-film-to-feature-chris-doohan-as-scotty-and-mythbusters-imahara-as-sulu/

(from 29 on down)

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=133657&page=53

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=5440252

http://trekmovie.com/2013/05/30/fan-production-star-trek-continues-releases-first-episode/

(599 to the end)

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=214357&page=8

(#109)

The best versions of James T. Kirk are Bill Shatner, James Cawley, Christopher Pine, and Brian Gross. And these four are TRUE professionals.

Vic Mignogna is most certainly NOT!

69. KMKProd - January 6, 2014

I loved the episode. I do editing/post production and camera work, and I wish I could get to New York and help out in any way possible. Ever since middle school, some friends and I have always wanted to do something like this. Keep up the good work.

Oh, and I loved the Howard Dean howl at around the 00:57:15 mark (I think) when Kargh was fighting. It almost made me spit out my drink.

70. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 6, 2014

A fun hour to watch. Thanks for almost bringing TOS back to me.

My notables…

1. An Australian Klingon?! That was unusual, but funny.
2. Nice Klingon disruptors and FX. In fact, the whole production seemed
upgraded when it came to the Kingons. Except for the Ship renderings.
HA Kidding. FX were some of the best I have seen from this group
and they were very TOS friendly.
3. Still hurting for some professional actors. Especially for Kirk.
A truly hard part to cast this many years after Shatner’s shadow.

Yes. all the usual gripes for a fan movie, but I can see how faithful this production was to everything Star Trek. It really did elevate itself above so many more professional productions. And a note for bob orci and crew. Keep the next Trek away from the Klingons. Let’s let the kids play with them for a while longer.

Thank all so much for this Star Trek surprise!

71. Blue Thunder - January 6, 2014

@58 – Vic Mignogna is NOT a good James T. Kirk at all. Or anything good period! His antics during the filming of Kitumba have proven that!

72. Ronnie B. - January 6, 2014

#67 stupidly wrote: “It is precisely because of the naysayers from people that think they are trekies, when in fact they are not,”

1) It’s not your call whether or not someone is a fan.
2) It’s not your call whether or not someone is a fan.
3) It’s not your call whether or not someone is a fan.
4) It’s not your call whether or not someone is a fan.
5) It’s not your call whether or not someone is a fan.
6) Calling yourself a “Trekkie” just makes you sound like an idiot. There’s no need for ridiculous labels like that.
7) It’s not your call whether or not someone is a fan.

73. Alexander Ibrahim - January 6, 2014

At everyone…

Vic Mignogna directed the episode, and he is credited.

Yes he had problems with Phase 2. He’s gone on to make his own TOS era series. It’s a different series with different aesthetics and goals. I wish him and the people that work with him success- I have a lot of friends at STC.

Please, as Vic’s closest collaborator on this episode, let that be the end of it.

John Meredith Lucas’s script was excellent. Our adaptation, with permission of the family and the property owners at CBS/Viacom, was actually not as good as the original! It was necessary however, and we still had a good script.

It is the script that drives the episodes strength. And despite our issues Vic and I put together some exciting footage from it.

Now… What’s past is past. What remains is the work. James Cawley is proud of Kitumba. I’m proud of Kitumba. Vic should be proud too. So should everyone else who worked on it.

Especially when you consider the shows budget is about 1% of n episode if Star Trek: Enterprise. About 7% of a third season TOS adjusted for inflation.

These episodes of all the various fan series are each little miracles. It’s just amazing that they can be completed at all.

Again everyone: Thanks for watching!!

74. CmdrR - January 6, 2014

Alexander,

It’s a fine 1’05″ at the computer! Thank you.

As for nitpicking — you do know you’re dealing with Trek here, right — we should keep it fun. Like… which part of Q’onos has the turtleheads, which part the smooth heads, and which part the Cockneys? That one Klingon stands out like a bloomin’ so’ fumb, ‘e does.

75. ety3rd - January 6, 2014

“Blue Thunder”: Regarding Vic Mignogna and “Star Trek Continues” …

I have no idea what behind-the-scenes shenanigans took place. All I know is that I like “Phase II” and I liked the first (and so far only) episode of “Continues.”

Trashing “Continues” with such hyperbolic vitriol does no good service to yourself or “Phase II.”

76. Smike - January 6, 2014

WOW! An absolutely amazing, outstanding episode and a true dream-come-true in so many ways. Having TOS era and spin-off era Klingons work side by side, with both costumes, gadgets and traditions honored was soooo absolutely cool. I had this dream since I visited my first Convention almost 20 years ago and now it has finally come true…

But not just that: all the other tidbits of continuity… the mentioning of Archer’s first mission to Kronos, the stealing of the Corvette, the prospect of a Klingon Empire fighting for leadership for 100 years… all was there, even beyond the boundaries of timelines…

The only thing that could have made this even better: a JJ-style Klingon in the mix,but since it was shot before STID came out, this was not an option.

Looking forward to the new Kirk. The preview reminded me a lot of a Doctor Who episode… that woman feels like River Song :-)

Thanks a lot for this great series, the best thing next to a “real” Star Trek show… Together with ST Continues, you are part of an era of fan-made greatness… I hope it will be honoured for decades to come!

77. Smike - January 6, 2014

“These episodes of all the various fan series are each little miracles. It’s just amazing that they can be completed at all.”

Absolutely… I’ve recently watched the pilot episodes of Farscape and Andromeda on BD, which were supposed to be professional products at their time.
Regarding the SFX, they are far inferior to recent Phase II or Continues episodes. Apart from some minor lighting and sound issues, Phase II and Continues outscore both “pro” shows visually by lightyears. I know, it’s been ten years since those two came out, but still…

But even those minor production issues such as lighting and sound don’t bother me anymore. I’ve watched a couple of original Doctor Who episodes from the Tom Baker era for the 50th anniversary… Phase II and Continues look ten times as professional compared to that sweet old endeavour!

If Original Doctor Who, Farscape and Andromeda are considered real professional TV shows, Phase II and Continues should be so as well… Of course it’s not NuBSG, NuWho or NextGen remastered standards, but one cannot expect such achievements on a shoestring budget…

ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC WORK!!!

78. Bird of Prey - January 6, 2014

Very nice!! I like how they put all the effort into reconciling this old “Kitumba” story draft with everything about the Klingon Empire that has been established as canon post-TOS! Superb!! :-D

79. Robert Mauro - January 6, 2014

Blue Thunder, glad you like our episode, but I agree with ety3rd. We finished with the episode and we are moving beyond the drama.

80. Mikey1091 - January 6, 2014

Kitumba was a great episode, but I have to tell the article writer that the episode’s release was no surprise, seeing as everyone knew a month in advance that Kitumba was coming out January 1st, LOL!

81. Bird of Prey - January 6, 2014

BTW, a small observation: It seems to be a trend nowadays to put Chekov into a red shirt! ;-D

82. Michael hall - January 6, 2014

As a crew member on the Phase 2 episode “Origins” (now apparently to be completely reshot–*sigh*), I got to sit by and watch Pony Horton put together some of the disruptor blasts featured in this episode using Adobe After Effects. Just an amazing thing to see, how he would experiment with the myriad of glows, timings, and other options available in that software, intuitively building the shots until he obtained the effect you see now.

And of course he also took on the role of Kisharla in the show. Hope I’m not spilling any secrets here, but Pony confided to me that he was actually quite nervious on his first day of shooting and that Gil Gerard took him aside and was kind enough to give him a pep talk that allowed him to put aside his anxiety and continue. Well, you needn’t have worried, Mr. Horton. You did great:: for me, at least, your line readings were a hell of a lot more interesting and convincing than the standard “evil Klingon swagger” we see in way too many of these fan productions, including this one. Phase 2 would do well to portray any future Klingons with that level of thoughtfulness (though in truth I’d just as soon they stay away from the Klingons entirely for awhile, overused as they are).

Vic Mignogna’s direction, Alex Ibrahim’s cinematography, and Tobias Richter’s CG FX are all top-notch. Other production values like ediiting and the selection of musical cues are strong as well, with the exception some have already noted of dialog recording issues. Acting, as usual, is a mixed bag. As for the story, I only wish it could have maintained the level of suspense and moral complexity of the scene where the Enterprise crew must, very much against their will, track down and destroy the Klingon scout ship. More scenes like that in the future, please.

Overall, a very fine effort. It won’t displace “World Enough and Time” in my continued amazement at where love and dedication (and opposed to buckets of Viacom cash) can get you, but I really didn’t expect it to. The folks involved should definitely be proud of what they accomplished.

83. Blue Thunder - January 6, 2014

@74 – It gets the truth out about how untrustworthy and how toxic Vic is in his dealings with other people.

Even David Gerrold summed it up best, after the rotten experience that both Vic and Michele Specht put the P2 production crew through.

“I will never work with Vic Mignogna again in any capacity, nor would I recommend him to any other producer. Vic Mignogna’s actions, both on the set and off, are the primary reason why we will have to junk everything we shot on the Origins episode. The script is a good one, we got an astonishing performance from Matthew Ewald, and it’s a story we want to tell. We should have been able to finish it and have it out by now, but much of Vic’s work was unusable and Vic has so alienated the production crew that none of us want to invest any energy into finishing an episode with him in it.”

84. Blue Thunder - January 6, 2014

Correction, I meant to address 75 and not 74.

@79 – As you wish, Robert. Vic has already dug his own grave and Michelle’s.

I just wish that a lot of people hadn’t been hurt because of those two’s toxic BS. Nobody deserves to go through such narcicisstic BS like that!

85. Toonloon - January 6, 2014

First of all I’d like to applaud the efforts of the team. It’s clearly a labour of love and a herculean effort to create something like this.

I’m unaware of any “behind the scene” politics but I can tell there are two camps here and I have no wish to comment on either.

Getting back to my own feelings, I still have the same problem I have had with P2 stuff in the past – the acting. Put it this way, if your plane was crashing, you wouldn’t ask the nicest guy on the plane to have a go at landing. And if the situation repeat itself, you wouldn’t ask the same guy to have another go because he’s such a terrific guy and he tried hard the first time.

The stone cold fact of the matter is that you are nothing without a script and nothing without actors to interpret it and this is painful to watch. To be fair to Mr Cawley, what I could manage to watch, I think it was his best work in the role, but the supporting cast made me cringe far too many times. STOP STAR FUCKING! Just because the guy is Quinto’s stand in doesn’t mean he should play Spock. He’s a stand in! He wears someone else’s costume while technicians focus lights. That’s not acting. Just because somebody once had some connection to Star Trek or the genre at some point in the distant past does not mean they still have the chops. Stunt casting hurts your project, not enhance it. If you’re looking to cast people just so you can make an “announcement” then you should think long and hard about that philosophy. Whoever cast the Klingon ambassador really sank this project for me. He’s so bad I can’t watch any more.

Sorry guys. I know your heart is in the right place and work you have done is nothing short of astounding, but without actors and a script, its not something for an audience at large.

86. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 6, 2014

I wish someone would gush all the Vic details for us all to understand.
I liked this “episode” and would not mind reading some of the backstory.

In fact. Publish it all and make some money on it. It would make a nice piece of Trek history and I think it might sell here at TM as an article and downloadable PDF.

87. ety3rd - January 6, 2014

Blue Thunder (#83) ” It gets the truth out about how untrustworthy and how toxic Vic is in his dealings with other people.”

No. It doesn’t.

Stuff like this —

“Vic Mignogna’s twisted, spiteful, and petty rip-off known as Star Trek Continues … Mignogna’s toxic waste disposal-like, rip-off of a production … these two mentalities of such extreme toxic dementia … deceitful, petty, spiteful, vindictive, demented, perverted, unprincipled, poisoned, and toxic natures buried under so much make-up prosthetics”

– make you sound like a hypersensitive high school student.

It serves no useful purpose whatsoever.

(And your review of this episode is so gushing as to be ridiculous, but that doesn’t bother me as much as the above.)

88. Mr. ATOZ - January 6, 2014

Good job guys – looks like you’re having a lot of fun! Spock could use a little gym time..

89. Larry Talbot - January 6, 2014

John Meredyth Lucas, not John Meredith Lucas. Don’t you guys check this stuff?

@Blue Thunder. I understand: haters gotta hate.

90. Patty W - January 6, 2014

Ronnie B…”: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one’s own : use (another’s production) without crediting the source “. I thought you could use that definition. JML is clearly credited.

Alex…ouch. Well, I guess using the same footage over and over again in different spots would have been easier – I just don’t think it was “better”, and I doubt JML would either – given that he labeled his work “writer’s drafts”…meaning it was his first, rough draft…which explains the same scene being repeated in several different places. Unfortunate that he was not around to finish his own scripts. (Have you actually read those drafts? I think you are referring to the other adaptation made for Phase II, not JMLs drafts.)

Deniz Cordell was the director of much of the location shooting, so he should be acknowledged along with Vic here for the directing. (Vic left on the weekends to attend a convention, putting Deniz in the directors chair) For example, the shot of the crew coming down the stairs with Praxis in the background, for one, was one of Deniz’s.

Thank you everyone…for both the positive reactions and thought out criticisms. This episode was blood, sweat and tears…on set (exhausted people, overnight locations and the senior exec stopping would be fist fights!) and post production (well documented). I think everyone involved sees this as a joyous release and incredible accomplishment – even if it sucked. That it made it to release is a testament to the dedication and hard work of James and his entire crew. Kudos!

91. MJ - January 6, 2014

Watched the entire episode now. Great job — best fan production ever.

Quick question — I had heard rumors of a lot of disagreements and problems between Vic and James over the past year on this. What was up with that, and where does that situation stand now?

92. lerner - January 6, 2014

I appreciate the effort, but this just falls flat for me. Parts of it work up to a point, but overall it just does not feel right. Here’s hoping that mindsifter gets it right.

93. Hugh Hoyland - January 6, 2014

9. Alexander Ibrahim

Hey great job on this movie. IMO very well done given the limited recources your production team had/have. It seems like everyone pitched in and gave a 110%.

My question is more tech in nature. You mentioned you used the RED camera filming this. Whats your general opinion of the RED? I like the look of film (especially 70mm). Do you think the RED gives that “film” texture?

94. Fansincesixtynine - January 6, 2014

Really really fun. Thank you to everyone involved!!!

95. I am to Smurfy - January 6, 2014

Oh my god MJ for the first time ever gives praise to a fan film !!
Wow it really is a new year!
I like this new MJ so far

96. Dunsel Report - January 6, 2014

This is awesome. A better Q’uonos story than a certain movie I watched recently. Love the high stakes of keeping the Enterprise from falling into the hands of the Klingons.

97. Ahmed - January 6, 2014

@ 90. I am to Smurfy – January 6, 2014

“Oh my god MJ for the first time ever gives praise to a fan film !!”

lol,

98. Alex Rosenzweig - January 6, 2014

“Kitumba” was a wonderful way to start 2014! I really enjoyed it, from the performances to the VFX to the excellent set and location work. The script was excellent, from the nods to “Enterprise” and even JJ Trek to the compare-and-contrast of the Klingon vs. Federation/StarFleet mentality. e.g., the discussion about whether it was right to destroy the scoutship was so very “right” for a TOS episode.

I’m not sure if “Kitumba” will quite topple “World Enough and Time” from its place as my favorite “Phase II” episode, but it comes awfully close. :)

With so much Star Trek due to come to us in 2014, I’m really pleased at what a great start “Kitumba” has made for this year. Thank you so much to James Cawley and the entire “Phase II” team for bringing us this episode.

99. MJ - January 6, 2014

@92. Well, it’s the first good one that I have ever seen.

100. Gregory L. Schnitzer - January 6, 2014

Just to be clear–and not to derail valuable discussion on our episode–@83 “Blue Thunder” is not part of the Star Trek Phase II production team. We’d like to distance ourselves from his comments. Whatever personnel issues and whatever Sturm und Drang afflicted the production of this episode, we would never be so unprofessional as to “talk out of school” about current or even past staffers in public forums. (Candidly, I think we *should* never be so unprofessional to do this very same “talking out of school” in rather private production -related forums, too. I figure our own team members are entitled to the same kind of professionalism we want to display to the Average Joe.) We can’t keep “Blue Thunder” from speaking his mind, but we can implore everyone else to disregard his comments. His comments (and others like them) are more of a disservice to Star Trek fandom than they are constructive or valuable.

Gregory L. Schnitzer
Co-Executive Producer
Star Trek Phase II

101. DJT - January 6, 2014

Not perfect. But still loved it. A+ for effort.

102. Jonboc - January 6, 2014

Hmmm. A mixed bag. For once, the actors were really good. Not great, but with experience under their collective belts, the cast is becoming more at ease and relaxed in their line delivery. Technically, it was well polished throughout…with no distracting unevenness in things like editing and the sound mix, and lighting. Really well done.

My main problem is the story itself and the writers falling over their feet to try to explain away the differences between the TOS Klingons and TNG’s honor obsessed abominations. No, I didn’t like them in TNG and didn’t like them in this not-as-clever-as-they-think bridge between the two series. Also, I didn’t like the blend of the TOS transporter effect with the streaking effect of TNG. If anything, it should be a progression towards the effect used in the motion picture. Unlike a Reese’s peanut butter cup, you got TNG in my TOS, and I found it distasteful indeed!

I also cant stand the original series episode Mark of Gideon…however, just like TOS, I’ll be there, front and center for the next installment of Phase 2. Despite my personal problems with the story, it was very well done and I look forward to the next episode.

103. Magic_Al - January 6, 2014

I think the Corvette reference is nice considering the respect the Cawley and Abrams productions have shown each other. (As I’ve said before, Cawley being a pioneer, and taking the heat, in daring fans to consider a post-Shatner portrayal of Kirk, could only have helped promote fans’ open-mindedness to re-casting the classic characters in the Abrams films.) But if I’m analytical about canon, I have to be in the camp that says the Corvette incident did not happen in the Prime universe. Kirk’s father was not only alive and giving Kirk a more disciplined upbringing, the fact meant Kirk was a Starfleet brat who spent less of his childhood in Iowa. When the Prime Kirk was around 13, roughly contemporary with his alternate counterpart playing real-life Grand Theft Auto, he lived on the Tarsus IV colony where he witnessed the massacre by Kodos recounted in “The Conscience of the King.” What a sobering, life-changing trauma, that didn’t happen to the Alternate Kirk. The more you think about it, the more you realize the two Jim Kirks’ early lives were as different as twins raised by different families. But I’m digging way into a minor Easter-egg line in a fan-made episode that once again is an amazing labor of love. Technical issues aside, my only serious criticism of Kitumba, which applies to most fan films, is that it could probably be edited even tighter. A non-negotiable 50-minute broadcast runtime is sometimes a blessing in disguise. Full disclosure, I’m total hypocrite here, since I turned in a 60-second project in college that was supposed to be 30 seconds, but hell I just thought it was better as a 60 and got a C for not following instructions. It’s easy to tell someone to make cuts, but hard to cut stuff you made and like.

104. Scott Xavier - January 6, 2014

Love the video. Thank you for the hard effort. However, it suffers from horrible angles and bad acting.

105. Captain, USS Northstar - January 6, 2014

@30 — Jeff, this might be a little late in the comment stream, but I recommend the book “Best Destiny” to see what a trouble-maker “Prime Kirk” was as a kid.

The portrayal of New Kirk in ST 2009 was very much in that mold. Since the book came out a number of years ago, I’d like to think the 2009 writers used the ideas for inspiration.

106. Captain Karl - January 6, 2014

Nice to see they are finally going with the Phase II Enterprise design in the next episode.

107. Ronnie B. - January 6, 2014

If Vic’s acting was deemed “unusable” on “Origins,” then it must have been REALLY bad, given how bad the acting in pretty much every fan film production (including this one) is.

108. EnsignRedShirt - January 6, 2014

Fun stuff, definitely. Some people might not care for Vic, but he absolutely owns every scene he’s in.

The audio issues need to be resolved, both on set and in post. The final mix was odd – the music is buried, in my opinion.

Overall though, definitely a very nice effort.

By the way, it’s John MEREDYTH Lucas. If you’re going to use the man’s work, give him the courtesy of spelling his name right.

109. Patty W - January 6, 2014

104: get hold of “The Academy Years” by Harve Bennet. It will seem eerily familiar….as familiar as “Into Darkness” was to anyone who watched TWOK. (young Kirk steals a plane in that one.)

105: “unfinished” is perhaps a better choice of wording for the Phase II guys when referring to Vic’s acting in “The Protracted Man”. It’s thought unlikely that he will come back to the Phase II studio to finish the episode – though I bet no one asked him ;-) (“Origins” was actually my script, that I advised them not to use since Gerrold was coming on board as director and had “The Protracted Man” in his back pocket since 1967)

110. Michael Hall - January 6, 2014

107. Patty W – January 6, 2014

After reading the “Origins” script I suggested to Mr. Gerrold that it might humanize George Kirk to have him show some fear at his predicament, as did the character in “The Protracted Man.” Gerrold responded to the effect that this wasn’t the same story and that a Kirk wouldn’t act that way. Oh, well. . .

111. Nemesis4909 - January 7, 2014

I was wondering where “Origins” went, I saw the preview clip and I think it’d be interesting to see an interpretation of how the real Kirk might have got where he is.

All in all good stuff, really enjoyed the episode and it’s great to see something in the spirit of the old series. The acting could be better but what can you really ask for when it’s a non profit production like this?

Slight canon gripe. This Kirk said something about stealing the corvette when he was a kid, in “A Piece of the Action” Kirk had no idea how to drive so prime universe Kirk shouldn’t have done that, he’s not as much of a douche as Chris Pine Kirk. Remember in “Shore Leave” how Kirk said that he was “positively grim” at the academy and always had his head buried in books. Call me a purist but I love Prime Kirk

112. Blue Thunder - January 7, 2014

@87 – There’s an old saying and it goes like this: “If you don’t like it, then don’t read it.”

@89 – The reason why I hate Vic Mignogna is for a lot of illegal BS he has pulled. Some links that I have posted in past posts will contain all the information from a variety of sources who had the misfortune of dealing with Vic before.

@90 – MJ, in blog # 68 of this thread, the answer to that quick question can be located at the following links, from various sources. It confirms what I and others have said about Vic and his toxic BS over the years.

@100 – Like I have said to others, if you don’t like it, then don’t read it. Or to be more precise, “If you can’t stand the heat, then you need to stay out of the kitchen.” Simple as that. If anyone is doing a disservice to Star Trek, it is Vic’s toxic BS and all the harm that he has caused inside and outside of Star Trek fandom. Not those who have voiced their outrage and opinions. Especially NOT those who have been burned by Vic’s toxic antics and other BS. Think about that.

113. Blue Thunder - January 7, 2014

Correction – @91. Not @90.

114. ironhyde - January 7, 2014

This is visually absolutely perfect. Great performance for Scotty! :D The make-up is breathtaking, computer effects clean and smooth, wow. Just some issues with the sound, but nothing that’s not fixable even in it’s current state.

So well done. Makes me miss Trek. Political, thoughtful, purposeful trek. Feels good to watch.

115. Lt. Dakin - January 7, 2014

Thanks to everyone involved for bringing this jewell from John Meredith Lucas vision in his original script from 1977 to the screen that we can all enjoy. I first read Kitumba over 20 years ago, and it is thrilling to be able to watch this version of it.

116. ProtoVulcan - January 7, 2014

Crowley and Montagna? Crap. Please get people’s names correct when you post. How disrespectful.

117. Larry Talbot - January 7, 2014

@114. And yet misspelling “John Meredith Lucas” in the actual episode credits(!) gets a pass from you.

118. Michael Hall - January 7, 2014

” Or to be more precise, “If you can’t stand the heat, then you need to stay out of the kitchen.” Simple as that.”

No, what’s simple is that in putting up “Kitumba” for comments the Phase 2 producers are attempting to take the high road by asking that this forum confine itself to questions or opinions about the show itself, and not get into whatever unpleasantness was involved in its creation. And that by insisting on doing it anyway, you’re just trolling.

119. ProtoVulcan - January 7, 2014

@Larry Talbot: No, it doesn’t get a pass from me, and neither do the people ignorantly claiming plagiarism on the script because they don’t know any better, but both are already covered above.
Your attitude is part of what is wrong with all comment threads. You leap to personify something about a person’s comment with your own conclusion that is not true merely to make a personal attack rather than comment on the facts.
Please do not comment on what does or does not “get a pass” from me.
Apologies if I offended anyone who likes to comment on people but not get their names right.

120. dswynne - January 7, 2014

@110 (Blue Thunder): You say you have respect and admiration for the P2, and yet you continue your criticism of VM’s behind-the-scene actions when the actual production crew of P2 asked you to move on. I don’t know if you have a personal beef with VM or not, but since you refuse to abide by the wishes of those you portend to support by continuing your critique, it means that the only thing you care about is YOUR feelings on the matter. Sounds kind of selfish and childish, don’t you think? And since you feel obligated to do what you do, I will say this: I think VM’s performance and direction is the best part of “Kitumba”, and, because of that, I will donate money to his “Star Trek: Continues” projects. In fact, I will start donating money to P2 and other high quality fan film productions, as a demonstration of my appreciation of the franchise itself.

And if YOU do not like what I wrote, YOU do not have to read it. Ta.

121. Cosmo Kid - January 7, 2014

The production quality is excellent. Star Trek Lives!!

122. Ahmed - January 7, 2014

@120. dswynne

Well said.

@Blue Thunder, I don’t think that anyone here is interested in hearing more about this infighting.

I don’t watch fan films in general, but this one convinced me otherwise. So lets us all focus on the film itself, please.

123. Krik Semaj - January 7, 2014

Haven’t posted here in years.
The Trek “fan mentality” is enough to keep me away, and judging by the silly arguments most of you post here, and the always present dwelling on minutia, I will endeavor to stay away.
I have seen every episode and movie “officially” produced. I have been a fan since I was 8 and TOS was on NBC. I LOVE Star Trek – including the JJ versions. I have also seen all of Mr. Cawleys work.
While I applaud James and crew for their efforts, It is still usually a chore to make it through to the end of each one.
Visual productions are for ENTERTAINMENT, and these don’t compare to their higher budget and better acted parents.
If people want to complain about them you should not get mad. These are being put out there for everyone to see, and many fans find them substandard. Don’t use the argument that they don’t have the budget – nobody forced them to put these out there for all to see.
I will continue to watch them, and will continue to hope they get better.

124. Danpaine - January 7, 2014

Can’t wait for Mindsifter. That’s my favorite all-time Trek prose.

125. Alex Rosenzweig - January 7, 2014

#105 – “Jeff, this might be a little late in the comment stream, but I recommend the book “Best Destiny” to see what a trouble-maker “Prime Kirk” was as a kid.

The portrayal of New Kirk in ST 2009 was very much in that mold. Since the book came out a number of years ago, I’d like to think the 2009 writers used the ideas for inspiration.”

If memory serves correctly, Bob Orci said that he was very much influenced by that book in the writing of ST2009.

As for Kirk and the corvette comment, I thought it was cute, and not in conflict with how Kirk prime might have been as a kid. (Okay, I’ve been influenced a bit by Diane Carey’s work, too. ;) ) Also, driving a corvette and a 1920s flivver would be very different, and Kirk did imply in “Kitumba” that his driving wasn’t very good. ;)

126. Gene L. Coon was a U. S. Marine. Stand at ease. - January 7, 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_L._Coon

This is the most current thread, so I thought I’d post this here.

Happy 89th Birthday to the OTHER indispensible Gene; Gene L. Coon!

Sadly, Gene died in 1973. If you haven’t read his wikipedia entry in awhile, please do. It can be argued that much of what made Trek Trek was created by Coon. He created Klingons, Khan, The Prime Directive, Spock vs. McCoy, the Gorn, the Horta. Much of the actual flavor and humor of Trek are his.

I have often wondered how much better TMP would have been had he lived to help write it.

127. JR - January 7, 2014

@1 – I agree. Visual is great. Audio — no so much so. Almost there… don’t give up. This was a fantastic installment.

128. CmdrR - January 7, 2014

It took MANY creative people to make the Trek that fills our dreams. It is an incredible tribute to those who’ve passed that we’re still obsessing over this silly tv show 50 years later, when the most popular shows of the day have long since vanished or passed to the oldies stations.

129. Blue Thunder - January 7, 2014

@118 – I would hardly qualify the freedom of speech as trolling.

@120 – There is nothing childish about voicing an opinion or point of view. Unless there has been a change in either the Constitution or The Bill Of Rights, the Freedom Of Speech still exists. Whether people concur with those points of view, or not.

While you are entitled to donate to high budget productions, I will say this about donating specifically to Star Trek Continues.

To quote Spock from Requiem For Methuselah: “Unless you are certain of the outcome, I would suggest refraining from a most useless experiment(i.e. STC).”

But, that’s just an opinion and it is your decision.

130. Toonloon - January 7, 2014

@ 123 Beautifully put sir. I wholeheartedly agree with every one of your comments.

131. Jerr - January 7, 2014

” 100Gregory L. Schnitzer – January 6, 2014
Just to be clear–and not to derail valuable discussion on our episode–@83 “Blue Thunder” is not part of the Star Trek Phase II production team. We’d like to distance ourselves from his comments.”
That’s was worth the long read to get to 100. BT’s gona keep on trollin’

@124.. I don’t think Mindsifter is gona happen anymore. It was taken off the New Voyages’ forum a while ago. Part of the reason for the long delay of this episode is the agreement that had to be worked out for future episodes. CBS said they could finish the episodes in the can, but could not use anymore Phase II scripts.

132. Robert Mauro - January 7, 2014

@131: (re: #124) We might have a surprise in store for you then. ;-)

133. Pyroboy - January 7, 2014

Blue Thunder,
There one thing about using the constitition and the Freedom of speech properly…..and there is another thing of using it to slander another person. Yes, this person may or may not deserve it, but who made you judge and jury? Don’t worry Blue thunder, His time will come when he and everyone else will be judged for thier actions.

respectfully submitted…

134. Dunsel Report - January 7, 2014

If I had one criticism it would be that after a terrific start, the story feels just a wee bit cluttered with Klingon characters I had trouble keeping track of. I found myself wishing for a slightly cleaner through-line concentrating on just the Kitumba and his tutor rather than dealing with some of the other factions that seemed to be in there. But I know there are Trekkies who are more into the Game of Thrones political intrigue stuff than I am.

I loved what seemed like visual homages to “Errand of Mercy” and sneaking around old stone buildings at night.

135. Red Dead Ryan - January 7, 2014

This was a really good film.

But with all the “Real Housewives”- style bitching and gossiping going on behind the scenes, I would think that perhaps CBS needs to shut things down for awhile to prevent long-term damage to the entire “Star Trek” brand.

I’m sorry to have to say that — but all of this badmouthing and infighting makes for bad PR.

136. Trekzilla - January 7, 2014

Outstanding production!! The VFX were amazing!! Sure, the acting could be better but — HELLO!!! — it’s a fan flick!!! Even so, to score Gil Gerrard was very cool and it was also cool to see Andy Probert (who I met last summer). This was fun — and my hat is very much off to the P2 team!! Loved it!! Keep em coming!! I like Star Trek Continues too. The more fan productions like this, the better, I say!!

137. Ahmed - January 7, 2014

@135. Red Dead Ryan

They just made a good fan film & you call for CBS to shut them down, wtf ???

138. Ensign RedShirt - January 7, 2014

135 – RDR

I can say with complete confidence that stories of behind the scenes infighting at a fan film production will not be noticed by anyone outside of a particular sector of the fan base that enjoys fan films.

139. crazydaystrom - January 7, 2014

Really enjoyed Kitumba! Sure, you could nit-pick it to pieces and until the cows come home but this is a terrific production and some fine fan Trek. In fact, my favorite of all the fan productions I’ve seen.

I’ve never been able to warm up to Cawley’s Kirk mainly because he hasn’t been able to convey Kirk’s “swagger” effectively enough for me. But I’m starting to think I’d enjoy Cawley as perhaps some other Star Fleet Captain. Don’t know how I’m going to feel about this new guy coming in to play Kirk either. Oh well time will tell.

Too bad about all the clammer about Mignogna. His perfomance was my favorite in the show and stood head and shoulders above the rest, IMO.

But Charles Root was good as Scotty, as was Bobby Quinn Rice as Peter. And I want to marry Kim ‘Uhura’ Stinger. The actress who played the Klingon (I think it was) Kali, Michelle Specht(?) was very good as well.

The Trek easter eggs and winks were good too. I really got a laugh out of the Klingon saying to Cawley/Kirk “You look like a singer!”. Funny, considering the fact Cawley’s an Elvis impersonator in his ‘other’ life.

All in all Kimbuta was enjoyable Trek viewing and all involved with the production should be proud of the work!
IMO

140. Bart - January 7, 2014

Such great episode. Have been a big fan of Phase II for a while now, and am very thankful to James Cawley and the entire production team for keeping TOS alive for us. I’ll miss him playing Kirk, but I also look forward to the new actor.

Also really loved “Pilgrim of Eternity” and send the same thanks out to Vic and that whole Star Trek Continues team.

Can’t wait for Renegades later this year.

In other words, this Trek fan for the last 40 years is never going to utter a negative comment toward any fan production out there. This is a labor of love for these people and I’m happy as Hell that they’re doing it.

141. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 7, 2014

126. Gene L. Coon

Good thoughtful post.

142. Patty W - January 7, 2014

103 Magic Al, 111 Nemesis4909….and the rest of the “corvette debating crowd”. Kirk grew up an Iowa farm boy with a sense of adventure. Boredom + isolation + antique car sitting in the neighbor’s/dad’s/grandfathers/etc garage = joy ride in that situation. I’ve seen it a couple dozen times over working in youth jails. (Add into the mix an older brother – “Nah, you don’t have it in you, Jimmy!). It’s very much in keeping with the “never a BoyScout” young Kirk – it doesn’t have anything to do with why young Kirk stole the corvette in 09. (though there is no canon, i.e. on film, reason given)

And as 111 pointed out, Kirk said he drove it badly – and driving a 66 Corvette is NOTHING like driving a 30s car. I know, I’ve driven both. Completely different animals. (If you remember Kirk couldn’t find the starter in POA – which was on the floor.)

125 Alex – again, I urge folks to hunt down a copy of the “The Academy Years” script that was proposed before TWOK came into being. The writer’s VERY CLEARLY referenced this script. Stolen car? Stolen plane. Kirk and the Orion cadet? Yup. It goes on and on….reading it is a real eye-opener…so much so that the near plagurism in ID didn’t surprise me at all. They’d already done it with The Academy Years and 09.

131 Jerr re: Mind-Sifter. Wherever you get your facts, you need to find another source. MS was never a “Phase II script”. It’s been partly in the can since 2010. There was no “working out an agreement.” CBS sent an email, we said okay, thanks. The reason for the delay was James’ work schedule. We filmed everything we could without him, plus a scene where he got beat up. Then began the long wait for him to be able to shave his sideburns and go back to work as Kirk. Never happened…so now there is a new Kirk to complete the episode. There will be a different script as well. These things have all be stated repeatedly on the P2 FB group, Trekbbs, and on James’ personal page.

143. Vultan - January 7, 2014

#135

If bad PR is cause for shutting down a production, then Bad Robot should’ve been shut down months ago. Remember the whole Khan thing? The Carol Marcus underwear show?

Bad PR is bad, but it’s still not a good reason to shut anybody down.

144. jonboc - January 7, 2014

thanks for the reminder Gene L. Coon Was A Marine…

Remembering the late great co-architect of Star Trek, Gene Coon!! Born this day, many moons ago and taken from us way too soon. Cheers!

145. Red Dead Ryan - January 7, 2014

#143.

The difference is the petty gossiping, backstabbing, and infighting that is taking place here. You’d have to think that eventually CBS will find out what is happening, and order a full stop to everything if the players can’t play nice.

It’s making a mockery of what “Star Trek” supposedly stands for, and will threaten the brand if it goes on for much longer. That is a fact.

146. Vultan - January 7, 2014

Oh, I think TOS Trek can survive those sort of things.
It did before.

147. Alex Prewitt - January 7, 2014

People, PLEASE stop feeding the Brent. It’s just “toxic BS”, ok?

148. Pierre - January 7, 2014

Having read these comments before seeing the episode, I wasn’t expecting much. However, that was perhaps the most enjoyable fan episode I’ve seen. I’m incredibly impressed by what Cawley and his team have pulled off. Thank you for keeping classic Trek alive!

149. Weerd1 - January 7, 2014

If you follow the idea from the deleted scene in ’09 that the Corvette belonged to Kirk’s dad, and his Uncle (probably Winona’s brother since the older Kirk kid says “You can’t be a Kirk in this house”) then the antique automobile would still be in Iowa in the Prime Universe. Since events in each universe reflect one another, like ALL the Trek universe variants, this is just an event that in some form happened in both. It’s not a big deal, and still a nice nod to the MANY fans who like the Abrams universe as well as the Original blend.

150. Blue Thunder - January 7, 2014

@147 – Alex, there was a reason why you were blocked sometime past, and your recent comment is an example of those reasons. We both know who is toxic BS. That’s one of the many negative personality traits that Vic has.

151. Jerr - January 7, 2014

@142. Patty… thanx for the clarification

152. Jerr - January 7, 2014

If you want to see how negative Vic is…. watch this http://vimeo.com/11692514#at=5

153. Rob - January 7, 2014

I liked it!

154. MJ - January 7, 2014

As someone reading these posts, come on guys, the cat is out of the bag now about their being major issues with Vic and James. I think rather than pretend were all going to keep this secret, let’s instead use this forum for both sides to clear the air once and for all.

So Vic and James, if you guys are reading this — and we all know you are — come on, let it all out. Let’s clear the air here once and for all. Get if off your chests. Then, following that, maybe we can collectively move forward in a new manner with no hard feelings.

Come on guys, clear the air. What happened, James? What happened, Vic?

155. Plum - January 7, 2014

Really LOOKS wonderful. The colour, the production value. Any fututre Trek production should see this just to see how it can be done. :)

156. Pensive's Wetness - January 7, 2014

I watched the episode a little after Midnight New Years Day and it was impressive. Yes it has issues (all fan-based material will) but it makes you forget that it isn’t TOS per se, then you did your job. Kitumba was a high mark for me, when i consider the other episodes produced by the TNV/Ph-II staff. BZ.

as for the all the hate that also generated? meh i don’t even bother to read some of these people’s comments (which is why some of them have delays on posting) if i already know all they say is retarded and infantile…

so continue the good work, gentlefolk.

157. Nemesis4909 - January 8, 2014

Thanks for the reccomendations for books to read, I know that the 09 movie had a lot of inspiration taken from books and other media (TAS Yesteryear springs to mind).

I shall certainly check out the academy years book to see what it’s like. My comment regarding the corvette was more from what was said onscreen in TOS, “Shore Leave” gives you an idea of what Kirk was like as a student at the academy (studious and goal oriented).

I hope Prime Kirk wasn’t stupid enough to let the corvette fall down a canyon :P

I hope the “Origins” episode shows Kirk as being an intelligent and hard working student, TOS gives the impression that Kirk worked hard to get where he is and had earned his captaincy through commitment and study.

Just my take on it really, feel free to disagree :)

158. K-7 - January 8, 2014

I agree with MJ.

Let’s have a forum here for Vic and James to air things out.

Maybe as a group, we can bring some piece to this situation. It’s unhealthy as a fan base for us all to just sweep this all under the rug. Let’s deal with this now, get it all out on the table, and try to resolve it.

159. Michael Hall - January 8, 2014

154. MJ – January 7, 2014

“As someone reading these posts, come on guys, the cat is out of the bag now about their being major issues with Vic and James. I think rather than pretend were all going to keep this secret, let’s instead use this forum for both sides to clear the air once and for all.

I know you mean well here, but wrt the acrimony between these two there’s no secret, and in fact the cat has been out of the bag for years now. And yes, it’s a shame. Cawley and Mignogna are charismatic, talented individuals who are obviously sincere in their love for TOS, and both of whom were personally kind to me in my brief interactions with them on the set of “Origins.” Whatever the original cause, so much blood has been spilled at this point that the rift appears to be deep, and permanent. Trying to fix it now would be like getting “Blue Thunder” to understand that mild requests he act like an adult aren’t really abrogations of his Constitutional right to free speech. Just not gonna happen.

160. James Cawley - January 8, 2014

Hey Gang,
The events that transpired between me and Mr. Mignogna are ancient history. I don’t concern myself with any of it.
They are long ago in the past and I don’t dwell in the past. I have a full, rich and happy life. People would best be served to do the same thing, enjoy your life and don’t dwell on the negatives!

161. Oscar - January 8, 2014

Good news: IDW to launch photocomics as second ongoing series. Starring: the ORIGINAL crew. Directed by John Byrne the great.
The original timeline: the past, the present and the future of Star Trek.

162. Emperor Mike of the Alternate Empire - January 8, 2014

Trekmovie is not what it used to be. Since Anthony Pascale left the site it has simply gone down hill. I know the folks who are running Trekmovie are doing the best they can. But. It’s like the Enterprise Bridge. With Kirk and Spock gone. It’s just not the same. People here are being mean and they are not living up to the high standard’s that Star Trek is all about. That is why I seldom post on here any more. Till or unless Anthony Pascale or the fine folks who run this site can clean it up. I will simply not post on the main thred’s nearly as much as I did. I was on on this site from almost the beginning.

163. Larry Talbot - January 8, 2014

@160 James Cawley – You don’t concern yourself with the issues anymore and it happened long ago, and yet you buried Vics directing credit way down in the end credits for the episode. no other tos episode did that and I think its probably against some rule somewhere. if you are trying not to dwell in the past, why did you do something different than what you’ve always done? Kitumba is a great episode an it might be in the running for a hugo or nebula like “worlds enough and time” maybe even an online Emmy. I hope this doesn’t get the episode excluded from consideration.

164. johnbijl - January 8, 2014

I liked it. Liked The Lord Kurge cameo on the 40 minute mark too.

165. Philip - January 8, 2014

The bickering on here got to the point where “TL;DR” definitely applied. I’m not interested in any of that nonsense. We all have one thing in common so a bit of unity among fans would be good. James Cawley has been good enough to say it’s all in the past as far as he is concerned so that should be good enough for the rest of us not looking at kicking up mud and digging our noses into people’s lives.

The reason I want to post here today is that, while in the past I might have thought certain fan productions might have looked the part, the acting was too hammy to take it seriously, and there was too much effort in employing former ‘Trek stars to try to get views from the fan base. However, this latest effort has gone a long way toward changing my opinion. The production values are really excellent. The acting (and timing and direction) have improved immeasurably (although still not perfect in some instances, it’s adequate from all). I liked the choices of locations because it was in keeping with the aesthetic of the original series. Considering this is done with a tiny budget, I have to offer my kudos to those involved. You’ve won over a sceptic, and I now look forward to seeing more offerings from Phase II.

The fanboy in me is especially interested in seeing the Enterprise’s evolution. I noticed in the preview at the end of the episode that there are some changes to the design of the ship. This is the kind of stuff I find exciting. It might explain why my dinner parties are seldom well attended.* ;)

I have one quibble: Scotty’s accent is unconvincing. It might be passable for American ears, but as a fellow Celt, it still needs a little work! Jimmy Doohan’s wasn’t all that spectacular either, mind you, and the Scottish accent is not an easy one to impersonate. It’s not a criticism of the actor’s ability as an actor, so don’t take it as such!

*my parties are ALWAYS well attended.

166. Disinvited - January 8, 2014

# 145. Red Dead Ryan – January 7, 2014

” It’s making a mockery of what “Star Trek” supposedly stands for, and will threaten the brand if it goes on for much longer.” – Red Dead Ryan

If only what you surmise were true that Moonves could possibly care one whit about making a mockery of what STAR TREK supposedly stands for, but I sincerely doubt it. Given the success that THE BIG BANG THEORY has been for him I think the odds are even more likely that he wrongly concludes “making a mockery of what STAR TREK supposedly stands for” is exactly what he needs.

I mean did we detect any of this CBS reactionary concern about STAR TREK harmony when JJ went public about his merchandising demands?

Its a total fiction any claim that Paramount’s Brad Grey and CBS’ Les Moonves follow even one iota any sort of harmonizing Trek based philosophy for the greater good of what Trek stands for in their interactions with one another and their boss, Sumner Redstone. It’s purely business with them and being “nice” is far from any description of the antics reported out of Sumner’s office.

167. Kev - January 8, 2014

I gotta admit I enjoyed this, although honestly I’m abit sad at seeing the Phase 2 enterprise at the end taking place of the original.

when I kinda think all the old design needs is a modern paint job like this modeler did here with his

http://culttvman.com/main/gil-brumanas-lost-years-enterprise/

and the decals of the TMP refit and that’s about it minus that aztek thing.

and personally minus the added on torpedo launcher, something about having that rigged up like that bothers me, and I’d rather see it be part of the middle prong around the deflector dish at the bottom, plus it would preserve the original lines of the design.

and add functionality to it, granted I also gotta wonder what that model would look like just with the JJ engines on it, maybe downsized them abit too, to better fit the scale.

great now I got another model I gotta add to the kitbash list and try myself and I still havent finished the excelsior.

168. jerr - January 8, 2014

@162 The director credits weren’t buried at the end, but they were close to it. After the extras at 1.05:23. I had to pause each card to find it. I though it was a bit of jab to have the director credits buried as well.
The good news is now there are two really good TOS web series now.

@160 James, Thank you for all your hard work and time!

169. Michael Hall - January 8, 2014

163. Larry Talbot – January 8, 2014

“James Cawley – You don’t concern yourself with the issues anymore and it happened long ago, and yet you buried Vics directing credit way down in the end credits for the episode. no other tos episode did that and I think its probably against some rule somewhere. “

I believe DGA rules state that a director’s name must be listed last in the first act’s credits, or first in the closing credits. I doubt very much that credit placement would affect “Kitumba’s” eligibility for a Hugo or Nebula (let’s forget about that Emmy) in any case–but with all respect, Mr. Cawley, I agree with Larry Talbot here. Vic Mignogna did a great job of directing this episode, pure and simple. Placing his credit appropriately would tie this show stylistically with past New Voyages/Phase 2 as well as TOS episodes–and, at the end of the day, is simply the right thing to do. Your call, of course, but I would ask you to consider.

167. Kev – January 8, 2014

“. . .when I kinda think all the old design needs is a modern paint job like this modeler did here with his”

Interesting. It may indeed have been more appropriate to go with a more subtle upgrade like this one (especially given that, from what I’ve seen so far, Phase 2 hasn’t altered the interior sets to any great degree), but the new design is what Matt Jeffries had in mind for the original rebirth of Star Trek on television in 1977, so that’s what the Phase 2 crew went with.

170. Al - January 8, 2014

Vic’s director’s credit is rather hidden isn’t it? Does the director credit normally come after the extras and before the clapperboy?

A bit obvious that

Oh and the new Kirk is incredibly round shouldered. Stiffen up man!

171. Ian B - January 8, 2014

#165

Speaking as an Englishman with Scottish blood, I personally like Charles Root’s performance as Scotty and, if it’s not quite a perfect accent, it’s kind of “the accent he does”. Nobody moans that Ricardo Montalban sounded nothing like an Indian. Or that Sean Connery always sounds like Sean Connery, even when he’s playing an immortal Spaniard, come to that.

I think maybe one thing is that Doohan had a much lighter “lilting” vocal register, whereas Root’s vocal register is very different. But personally, I think he’s fine.

172. Toonloon - January 8, 2014

@ James Cawley. Classy. Well said sir .

173. Harrys used tribbles - January 8, 2014

Great job guys!!! Keep up the stellar work!

174. K-7 - January 8, 2014

“I believe DGA rules state that a director’s name must be listed last in the first act’s credits, or first in the closing credits. I doubt very much that credit placement would affect “Kitumba’s” eligibility for a Hugo or Nebula (let’s forget about that Emmy) in any case–but with all respect, Mr. Cawley, I agree with Larry Talbot here. Vic Mignogna did a great job of directing this episode, pure and simple. Placing his credit appropriately would tie this show stylistically with past New Voyages/Phase 2 as well as TOS episodes–and, at the end of the day, is simply the right thing to do. Your call, of course, but I would ask you to consider.”

I AGREE 100%

175. Patty W - January 8, 2014

Nebula awards are given to active members of Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, Inc, so “Kitumba” isn’t eligible. (Neither JML or I are active members of this group)

It IS eligible for a HUGO, however… nominations are taken from Jan 31 to March 31 here…

http://www.loncon3.org/nominations.php

To do so you have to be a member of the 2014 WorldCon, which is a $40 “supporting membership” to do so. (You don’t have to pay to attend.) http://www.loncon3.org/memberships/

re: the director’s credit……From Greg S, our Co-exec:

For what it’s worth–from the DGA Basic Agreement for those who are DGA Signatories and so are bound by such agreement (or productions that simply aspire to the same level of professionalism of course):

“For television programs covered under the BA, as well as prime time and high budget dramatic programs covered under the FLTTA, the Director’s screen credit must be accorded on a separate card, which shall be the last title card before the first scene of the program or the first title card following the last scene of the program. However, in the case of split credits where credit is given to any person before the first scene of the picture, the Director’s credit must appear on the last solo card before the first scene of the program. No commercial or other material shall intervene between the Director’s card and the body of the program. For BA-covered programs only, the Director’s credit must be accorded in a size no less than 40% of the episode or series title, whichever is larger. Television programs less than two hours in duration require the directorial credit to be displayed for two seconds, and not less than three seconds for shows two hours or more in length.”

NV/P2 did put the director’s credits later, before the producers once before – in TSAMD. Same situation existed then.

Though, for Kitumba the one thing that can be said is Vic did NOT direct the entire episode. He directed 5 days of the first week and 4 days of the second week. He left to attend conventions (Fri-Sun) and 5 days of directing were done by Deniz Cordell. MAYBE people should consider the fact that TWO directors were responsible for this episode as being why they are listed together after the cast – which is exactly how IMDb lists them. MAYBE listing them together in this spot was supposed to let people know that all the work was not Vic’s, as people are crediting him for.

hmmmm….why is noone noticiing that Vic didn’t direct the entire thing? Why is he getting credit for someone else’s work? Good questions….obviously putting their name together didn’t get the message across.

176. Gregory L. Schnitzer - January 8, 2014

I think that under the DGA rules, if there is a Second Unit Director credited (as there is in “Kitumba”), the Director still needs to be credited on his or her own card. If there actually was shared directing responsibility, the Producers must notify all the persons involved in writing which of them will not be the one receiving the single Director credit as required by DGA rules. That allows time for the aggrieved parties to appeal to the DGA Guild for arbitration on the matter. (I understand that we aren’t DGA signatories, but I’m sure we would want to do it the DGA professional way even if we don’t actually have to do so.)

For what it’s worth, we’ve had shared responsibilities on lots of earlier episodes, but we’ve never used that as a reason for the unprecedented “shared” screen.

Also for what it’s worth, in the episode “To Serve All My Days,” where I think there was a falling out with the Director (but all that was all before my time with the production), there is *no* Director credited at all–either at the beginning of the episode, or even buried somewhere in the end credits. When the episode was re-released a year later with slightly different footage (as “To Serve All My Days–A Night in 1969″), a Director credit was added to the beginning of the episode–where it properly lives according to DGA rules. The Producers chose to credit the Director using the pseudonym “Leo Walsh.” (Trek fans will recognize the name as the alias used by Harry Mudd in “Mudd’s Women.”)

177. Blue Thunder - January 8, 2014

Judging from the information that I have read, Deniz Cordell should be the one to get the director’s credit instead of Vic.

Given Vic’s bad reputation, Vic doesn’t deserve any credit, period.

178. Patty W - January 8, 2014

You are wrong, BT. However, I do think the “Second unit” credit for Deniz is a blatant error. He did not direct any “second unit” …he directed the “first unit” when Vic took off. Had I been part of P2 when the credits were added I would have fought that ridiculous credit. It should be “co director” I would guess.

Greg, since P2 doesn’t follow WGA professional guidelines regarding assigning credit I wouldn’t expect them to follow the DGA professional guidelines for assigning credit. It’s a fan film and in the end this stuff is left up to TPTB mood at the time. Unfortunate, but true. Doesn’t make it less of an awesome episode and production house – it just makes it a fan film.

179. MJ - January 8, 2014

I too would like to see James “be the bigger man” here and give a more fitting Director’s credit to Vic.

It would be the right thing to do, and could go a long way to putting this rather embarrassing fan boy war behind us.

180. MJ - January 8, 2014

“Given Vic’s bad reputation, Vic doesn’t deserve any credit, period.”

So if you are an ass and a jerk, you don’t get credit for your work? LOL

What dream world are you living in, moron? That are a lot of assess and jerks that have built this country.

181. Gregory L. Schnitzer - January 8, 2014

I hope other future participants are similarly resigned to what might happen with their credits. Like I say, although we don’t have to do it the professional way, I don’t know what would be a more greatly respected and desireable method instead.

When we argue for our limitations, sure enough: they’re ours.

182. Patty W - January 8, 2014

179: MJ… if a “more fitting director’s credit” is added for Vic, that “Director’s credit card MUST READ:

Directed by:
Vic Mignogna
and
Deniz Cordell

period.

Vic was the director for 9 days, Deniz was the director for 5 days.

183. MJ - January 8, 2014

@181. Exactly, Patty. That would be how I would handle it.

184. Weerd1 - January 8, 2014

Star Trek isn’t broken: Fandom is.

I hope everyone can put bad blood aside and just enjoy making and watching Trek. If there’s some of it you don’t like, don’t watch it. I know where my preferences lie, but I’ve decided to stop bagging on the stuff I don’t like. Maybe the whole shebang, pro and fan, benefits from fandom being judicious in how we express our dislike.

185. Diskhanbobulated - January 8, 2014

69

While it was indeed funny, the Howard Dean “YEAAAARRRRGH!” yell at 57:15 produced eyerolls here. I dunno, perhaps it will become the next Wilhelm.

186. Red Dead Ryan - January 8, 2014

I agree with MJ’s plea for a settlement to this dispute. It doesn’t project a flattering image of fandom, and eventually, CBS may be forced to step in, andI think we all agree that we would not want that to happen.

187. Blue Thunder - January 9, 2014

@181 – I don’t live in a dream world, fool. I just don’t give credit to anyone who commits a lot of harmful BS for NO reason whatsoever. Or for twisted and demented reasons. A lot of asses and jerks have also come close to ruining things as well. Vic is one of those type of people. And believe me, I’ve dealt with people like him before. People who(as Sarek of Vulcan pointed out in Star Trek IV – The Voyage Home), ‘shed the first blood’ and cause unwanted harm to others.
,
If they deserve any form of credit, it’s for displaying the negative qualities of mankind itself. A form of credit that could be described as ‘having a bad reputation’.

188. Blue Thunder - January 9, 2014

Correction – the remark was addressed at MJ and his remark at #180.

189. Mark Lynch - January 9, 2014

I watched this the other day and found the effects to be top notch. Easily on a par with anything seen in Star Trek on television previously.

Sure, the acting is a little rough in places. But given that a lot of the people doing this are not professionals, I can overlook this. What they miss in talent they make upo for with their enthusiasm.

Anyway, it is not as if I could do any better!

Great effort, and I for one, look forward to what they release next.

190. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 9, 2014

152. Jerr

Thanks for posting that video…

http://vimeo.com/11692514

I thought Vic was a standout in this episode. I really thought he gave a great performance as Malkthon. IMHO, possibly the best acting in this episode.

Actually, I did not even know I was watching Vic through two showings of Matumba. But that’s me. a little disguise goes a long way.

Thanks again, Jerr for that awesome Phase II back stage visit.

And thanks again to everyone involved with Phase II, You guys ALL made the Trek dream seem so real again!

191. Jerr - January 9, 2014

@185
“While it was indeed funny, the Howard Dean “YEAAAARRRRGH!” yell at 57:15 produced eyerolls here. I dunno, perhaps it will become the next Wilhelm.”

I didn’t notice that…. that’s kinda funny ;-)

192. Jerr - January 9, 2014

Here is another one I found yesterday. This must be during Origins before the real fall out happened?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ_mt6pdtqg

193. ikey - January 9, 2014

The CGI was spectacular and first rate. The writing and the acting? Obviously not. Too much exoposition, lines about stealing corvettes were tacky, and the dialogue given to the Klingon characters were risible at best. I know this is an amateur fan production, but its very clear that the writers did not really understand Klingon culture. And from that teaser for the next episode, the new actor Captain Kirk doesn’t look promising at all.

194. Nykona - January 9, 2014

First, can we move on talking about how evil Vic is? Yes he is the most back stabbing under handed narcissist I have ever met and because of this he has no friends and people on STC don’t even like him.

Fine, we know, let’s move on. Blue Thunder (Chris I assume) just give it up and let’s talk about Phase II.

As far as Vic’s director credit goes, he was lucky to get the credit he did after how badly he screwed Phase II. And as he did on the STC shoot in October, he took off in the middle of the Kitumba shoot it to go do an appearance at a convention. I guess he needs to keep making money while all his volunteers give up their ability to do so slaving on a set for free. He worked about 2/3 of the time as Director on Kitumba and screwed the production by withholding the footage and releasing his own inept cut of Kitumba illegally. So frankly, the production was wholly within in its rights professionally and ethically, to give him the credit as they did.

Frankly, the focus should be on how Kitumba is one of the best fan films ever released. Certainly in league with “World Enough And Time” and Exeter’s “Tessaurian Intersection” (If Act 4 ever gets released).

Sure it is a fan film, and thus the writing could have been better, the acting was sometimes uneven, but overall a VERY impressive effort.

195. Michael Hall - January 9, 2014

176. Gregory L. Schnitzer – January 8, 2014

“The Producers chose to credit the Director using the pseudonym “Leo Walsh.” (Trek fans will recognize the name as the alias used by Harry Mudd in “Mudd’s Women.”

Yeah, I remember getting a little chuckle out of that credit the first time I watched “A Night in 1969.” Of course, Mr. Walsh would be the sort of autuer who would keep his resume as on the down-low as possible.

As to the directing credit for ‘Kitumba” itself, I admittedly have little knowledge of the dispute, including whether Vic Mignogna even wants to receive such credit at this point. It seems to me that, all things being equal, an apporprately placed co-director credit suggested by Ms. Wright in #182 would the what’s most fair to all parties, as well as a goodwell gesture to really put the unpleasantness behind everyone once and for all. But that’s not my call to make, not having any of my own blood, sweat or finances involved in this project.

(Actually, come to think of it I did do some rotoscope work for Juve Vique on the crowd scene where Kirk and crew first beam down to Quo’nos, but have no idea if it was actually used in the final film. So no, this isn’t a request for credit! :-) )

196. Patty W - January 9, 2014

Michael Hall said what I was going to add….it seems to be certain FANS complaining about the placement of the credit, not Vic (or Deniz for that matter) themselves. So fans seem to be charging the battlefield with their flag when the General has gone home with a cease-fire on the battleship years ago.

He, like most of us, probably understands it is just a fan film. No one gets paid based on their credit and, not being a DGA signatory, it’s not doing anything to help or hinder their union points. It’s just a fun project…nothing to stress over. Which, again, only seems to be the fans doing so.

now for getting Michael that rotoscoping credit….

197. Alex Rosenzweig - January 9, 2014

#142 – “125 Alex – again, I urge folks to hunt down a copy of the “The Academy Years” script that was proposed before TWOK came into being. The writer’s VERY CLEARLY referenced this script. Stolen car? Stolen plane. Kirk and the Orion cadet? Yup. It goes on and on….reading it is a real eye-opener…so much so that the near plagurism in ID didn’t surprise me at all. They’d already done it with The Academy Years and 09.”

I read the treatment for “The Academy Years” when AICN posted it, but I’ve never been able to find the full shooting script. Any ideas where it might be hiding? I’d love to read it.

198. Ian B - January 9, 2014

In terms of acting chops, the lady Klingon with the boobies turns in the only really professional performance IMHO, it’s got that different “quality” to it that identifies a professional actress. Is she one?

Amateurs always look slightly uncomfortable on set; the way they stand, or something, it’s hard to put one’s finger on exactly. The film was enjoyable to watch of course, but it doesn’t quite have that pro quality that even low budget professional stuff has. The closest they’ve ever come of course was World Enough And Time; but then that had both a professional director and crew and two professional actors “carrying it”.

I also have to admit that I simply can’t stand the Peter Kirk character, but that’s just a personal taste thing.

199. K-7 - January 9, 2014

Well, what about the lack of compensation for the original writers of the planned late 1970′s “Star Trek Phase II” scripts then given Cawley’s Phase 2 current effort. Isn’t this current Phase II project even more blatently plagiaristic, given they are using those actual stories/screenplays, and the original authors aren’t getting a fracking dime for their intellectual property?

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
197. Alex Rosenzweig – January 9, 2014
#142 – “125 Alex – again, I urge folks to hunt down a copy of the “The Academy Years” script that was proposed before TWOK came into being. The writer’s VERY CLEARLY referenced this script. Stolen car? Stolen plane. Kirk and the Orion cadet? Yup. It goes on and on….reading it is a real eye-opener…so much so that the near plagurism in ID didn’t surprise me at all. They’d already done it with The Academy Years and 09.”

I read the treatment for “The Academy Years” when AICN posted it, but I’ve never been able to find the full shooting script. Any ideas where it might be hiding? I’d love to read it.

200. Red Dead Ryan - January 9, 2014

#199.

“Well, what about the lack of compensation for the original writers of the planned late 1970′s “Star Trek Phase II” scripts then given Cawley’s Phase 2 current effort. Isn’t this current Phase II project even more blatently plagiaristic, given they are using those actual stories/screenplays, and the original authors aren’t getting a fracking dime for their intellectual property?

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” ”

You know, you bring up a good point here. Cawley and co. ought to consider their own situation before they accuse the writers of STID of “plagurism”.

To me, this just adds to the sad drama that is going on behind the scenes of these fan productions. You’d think that there wouldn’t be any egos here since supposedly no one is making money.

I’m still sticking with my prediction of CBS shutting these productions down — should all the prima donna infighting and backstabbing continue to go on.

201. Kev - January 9, 2014

that is true with the phase 2 enterprise, that it is a Matt Jefferies design after all.

although I cant shake the feeling its more a prototype than a finished product, hell honestly I feel even the TMP enterprise is kind of a prototype with some, well alot of its details that seem a little off.

like having the neck protrude over the deflector dish rounded area here

http://culttvman.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lbookingsrefitband05.jpg

vs the original

http://culttvman.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/gbrummirror06.jpg

instead of behind it, like the brim around it needs to be extended to keep the same proportion of that from the original design.

along with a far simplified paint job on the engineering and engine sections, IE lay off the blue and the azteking, and remove the blue panels on either side of engineering that Khan shot up and around the deflector

and just aim for a satin/matt silver white finish overall like it was in TMP, before they messed with the filters and made everything that was supposed to look grey look blue.

and I cant tell you how much that drives me nuts, along with the pylons not linking up in the front of the engines in that same shot of the refit above

like I would extend it to line up with the engines like it does on the reliant

http://culttvman.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/dcowlesreliant04.jpg

and then do the same to the connecting bits on the bottom to keep it congruent and look stronger

which kinda seems to be a much better all around looking ship frankly, atleast from below,

then reduce the super deformed saucer on the bottom to make it stronger but not to the point of the JJ Frizby style

and then use that carved out neck section from the Gabriel reimaging at 0:59

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgcGXQ_kduw

from the front to strengthen the neck and have the texture redone to match the excelsiors neck material for the cut out section grafted onto the original neck

and then thicken it and give it a reverse tapper to line up with it and remove and smooth out the dock area on the bridge, maybe also put these impulse engines on it from the Kelvin cut down to line up size wise with the refits:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidcummings62y/8279557048/

and well with how well I just picked apart the TMP version you can see why I think it seems like the only version of the Connie that looks all around great is the original nowadays.

its kinda like the Countach Vs the Miura actually

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scott597/4963761296/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/geralds_1311/6238358954/

the older you get the more you appreciate the one that came before it because of how simplistically beautiful and smooth it is versus the chunky replacement

and a new paint job is all it needs to look modern frankly

hell I kinda wonder if that’s why technically while the original and the love for it has never changed, while the Refit has had many reimaginings

as Technically the Excelsior is one of the first, as the ILM guys hated shifting that thing around, so they made a much narrower, stronger balanced and simpler design to replace it with a straight original connie like paint job with little to no blue crap on it.

and a white blue paint job on on it that made it look like it was medium to dark grey like the original ship with the filters they were using back then, something that was overlooked and lost when they switched over to CGI for it

then the Enterprise D made by the guy who finished up the TMP refit who wanted to do that version instead of the one we got

then the Abrams, which I’ve dubbed the anorexic enterprise and now the original concept ship here.

and its because of all of the above I’ve started to appreciate the original far more now.

although I would like to see a TMP refit that’s kinda like this to the Miura/ Countach Example

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daviel_stosca_aesthetics/7289461586/

but its probably gonna be up to me to build it myself and then post it on cultman someday

202. Ahmed - January 9, 2014

@ 186. Red Dead Ryan – January 8, 2014

“It doesn’t project a flattering image of fandom, and eventually, CBS may be forced to step in, andI think we all agree that we would not want that to happen.”

Dude, you clearly want these fan films to be stopped. You are the first one here who called on CBS to shut down these productions

Just read your last post

==================
200. Red Dead Ryan

“I’m still sticking with my prediction of CBS shutting these productions down — should all the prima donna infighting and backstabbing continue to go on.”
==================

Are you a little concerned that some people might enjoy watching these fan films more than JJ Trek ?

203. K-7 - January 9, 2014

#201

I don’t think he said what you are claiming? It seems to me that he’s saying that the petty ego fighting between the Cawley and Mignogna camps is risking that CBS might step in so as to prevent negative perceptions of the Star Trek brand from the public based on this unfortunate and highly volatile situation between these waring fan groups.

I think it is a valid point. Both sides would be well advised to make peace here and stop the back-stabbing. People like this Blue Thunder clown are putting the whole fan production thing at risk, in my opinion.

204. Michael Hall - January 9, 2014

“You know, you bring up a good point here. Cawley and co. ought to consider their own situation before they accuse the writers of STID of “plagurism”.

Oh fer Chrissake–no; he doesn’t. This subject was already dealt with upthread. John Meredyth Lucas unfortunately passed in 2002. According to Ms. Wright his family gave permission for his “Kitumba” script to be used by Phase 2, and his credit is prominently featured in the episode. So it’s not a case of plagiarism at all, unless you’re aware of a meaning for that word that the dictionary doesn’t cover.

(Incidentally, I also don’t consider the WOK pastiche featured in STID to be plagiarism, either. It just wasn’t a very good idea.)

“In terms of acting chops, the lady Klingon with the boobies turns in the only really professional performance IMHO”

Sometimes, I’m just so proud to be a fan. . .

205. Red Dead Ryan - January 9, 2014

Ahmed,

K-7 understood perfectly what I’ve been saying. I’m not sure how you misunderstood what I’ve posted here.

Unless you’re trying to start a fight?

206. Red Dead Ryan - January 9, 2014

#204.

What about the “Phase 2″ script “The Child” which was originally written in the seventies? Did the original writers get paid or not?

207. Michael Hall - January 9, 2014

Oh, and I very much doubt that Leslie Moonvees and his cohort could care less about a cat fight between nerds. So long as we keep buying their tie-in novels, DVDs, comic books and model kits, they’re cool.

208. Ahmed - January 9, 2014

@205. Red Dead Ryan

I agree with what K-7 said here

“Both sides would be well advised to make peace here and stop the back-stabbing. People like this Blue Thunder clown are putting the whole fan production thing at risk, in my opinion.”

But by just reading your comments, all I saw that you seemed to be calling for CBS to shut things down. If I misunderstood your meaning, then you have my apology.

“Unless you’re trying to start a fight?”

No, I think we both should wait until something new about ST XIII come out & then we can start a new & fresh fight :)

209. Michael Hall - January 9, 2014

What about the “Phase 2″ script “The Child” which was originally written in the seventies? Did the original writers get paid or not?”

The writer of the original ’70s script, Jon Povill, directed the Phase 2 episode.

210. MJ - January 9, 2014

All,

I don’t even get why people need to use these fan Star Trek productions as an excuse to take potshots at JJ-Trek?

These are completely different animals. Any analogies made are ludicrous and moronic.

211. Dunsel Report - January 9, 2014

How can we believe in a 24th century utopia where the Organians can put an end to war if James Cawley and Vic Mignogna can’t stop scrapping with each other like the two copies of “Landru” locked in the time tube?

212. Dunsel Report - January 9, 2014

Oops, I mean Lazarus.

213. Michael Hall - January 9, 2014

“How can we believe in a 24th century utopia where the Organians can put an end to war if James Cawley and Vic Mignogna can’t stop scrapping with each other like the two copies of “Landru” locked in the time tube?”

I think you meant “Lazarus” and not “Landru.” Otherwise, point very well taken–and not just for Mr. Cawley and Mr. Mignogna.

If we’re not better people, how can the future be better than the present?

214. MJ - January 9, 2014

@211

“How can we believe in a 24th century utopia where the Organians can put an end to war if James Cawley and Vic Mignogna can’t stop scrapping with each other like the two copies of “Landru” locked in the time tube?”

I agree completely. I think these guys need to clear the air here, and stop letting people fight their fights on their behalf and they supposedly sit in the background, “above the fray” — that is just so unconvincing.

From my POV, given all the posts here by people who’ve worked on Phase II and continues, it seems like everybody EXCEPT James and Vic seems man enough to address the differences directly. Perhaps its about time somebody changed these guys diapers, and had them as well address the community here?

Come on James and Vic, grow a set of nads and stake your position, and stop letting others’ here fight your battles for you. Man up!!!

215. MJ - January 9, 2014

@203

“Both sides would be well advised to make peace here and stop the back-stabbing. People like this Blue Thunder clown are putting the whole fan production thing at risk, in my opinion.”

Well said. James and Vic should address this head-on, right now, and right here, on Trekmovie.com. Let’s put everything out on the table, be honest about each’s feelings of being wronged, and then let’s try to resolve this as a group — right here!!!

216. Blue Thunder - January 9, 2014

@201 – K-7, you fool. If any clown is putting the fan productions at risk, it is Vic Mignogna, Farragut Films, and all of their toxic, backstabbing, lying BS!

Twelve years past, I had seen Star Trek fandom get this nasty and low for no reason and twelve years later, I see it is still the same. You can’t voice an opinion or point of view without the rabid Star Trek fans ripping you a new one over it. Whether it is the Abrams film or a topic such as this. And the reason being is that fans just don’t want to hear the other side present their arguments or they are just afraid to hear the truth. Typical Edward Jellico-Dennis Bailey type mentalities mixed in there!

Another example of how Star Trek fans don’t preach the philosophy of Gene Roddenberry and how, as the late Charlton Heston once stated in an interview with OMNI Magazine, ‘group man in general is nothing more than a bunch of blithering idiots’!

Chancellor Gorkon was right in his observation. “We have very long way to go! If there is to be a Brave New World, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it!”

Gene and Majel must be rolling in their graves at such BS!

217. MJ - January 9, 2014

@Blue Thunder

“Another example of how Star Trek fans don’t preach the philosophy of Gene Roddenberry…”

And your posts here on this thread of course do preach that philosophy, right?

;-)

218. DiscoSpock - January 9, 2014

If this Mignogna guy is such a jerk, as many of you claim here, then why would Chris Doohan pick his fan production company over Cawley’s?

Although the production values on this Phase II effort are the best I have seen on a fan production to date, I think the ensemble cast on Star Trek Continues is superior to Phase II’s; especially Kirk, Spock, Scotty and Chekov (although I do like Phase II’s McCoy better; but that DeSalle guy is a bit creepy).

It’s too bad these two groups can’t combine resources, and thus then have the best actors and best production values, all under one roof.

219. David G. - January 9, 2014

Question for someone from the production staff for this who might know: How long was the time span in filming this? It looks to me like John “Dr. McCoy” Kelley loses a lot of weight in some of his shots, even within some of the same scenes, where he seems noticeably thinner in some closeups.

220. Red Dead Ryan - January 10, 2014

Blue Thunder preaches Gene Roddenberry’s ideals on one hand, but practices the opposite in his continued one-sided attacks against Vic Mignogna, who isn’t here to defend himself. Not only that, but he calls K-7 a fool.

This is a disgrace, and shows a clear lack of maturity on BT’s part.

All of this continues to make the rest of us fans look pathetic, and reinforces the old stereotypes the media has of us.

221. wtriker1701 - January 10, 2014

Well, in my case TL;DR doesn’t fit. I was and am highly entertained by this TrekMovie “talkback”. But more on this a little later.

First, I also want here to congratulate the whole PHASE2-Team on their efforts with their latest outing. High production values on an amateur-close-to-semi-professionalism level. It was a very entertaining hour of Star Trek.

However, WEAT (World Enough And Time) still stands out as the film I regard as the best one, yet. (Or “The Tressaurian Incident” by the Starship Exeter crew, which may finally be released completely by April 1st this year. Here’s hope!)

Now on the behind-the-scenes drama. I’m almost on MJ’s side here. But some deed has been done, I think.

James Cawley comes here and states, that it is something that lies far behind now. Why isn’t it enough for some of you? You guys want details? They were given years ago – even here at TrekMovie. Google it, you can find it.

Maybe the only thing that’s missing here would be a similar statement from Vic Mignogna, where he also says “It’s been settled. Enough!” May happen in the future, may happen in this very threat, may have happened, I don’t know.

Would that be enough for all of you? Or do you want breathe out more bad air instead of concentrating on getting the most out of Fan Film Outings in the future.

Me, I want to dive in more Star Trek. I want to praise the good, criticize the bad – and will always be reminded of how little I participated in the making of such. If some of my criticism may help tweaking production values, the better for me, as it would be “some kind” of participation.

‘Nuff said. Now I’m eagerly waiting for more, whether P2 or STC or other teams. I’ll continue to watch, and I’ll participate and be it just in discussing things regarding those films.

Thanks for reading. tl;dr?

222. Michael Hall - January 10, 2014

@221–

Hear, hear. Yes, it would be nice if everyone could mend fences and patch up their differences, in accordance with the philosophy of an old TV space opera we claim to love so much. But no one has a right to demand such. That’s just nuts.

As “Kitumba” makes the point (however ham-fistedly, in the best tradition of TOS): change has to come from within, or it means nothing. Bullying or shaming people into it makes as little sense, and is probably as counter-productive, as forcing them to it at gunpoint.

For all the talk of peace and brotherhood, history has made it clear that the set of TOS was the furthest thing from a benevolent utopia. There were creative differences; egos clashed, and good people came and went. None of that diminishes the good that was accomplished in spite of all the backstage drama.

It may be that we’ll live to see better times. In the meantime, why not just take the hard work of these folks for what it’s worth and leave it at that? In the end they’re flawed individuals doing the best they can. Just like the rest of us. Accept that, and move on.

223. Alex Rosenzweig - January 10, 2014

#222 – “It may be that we’ll live to see better times. In the meantime, why not just take the hard work of these folks for what it’s worth and leave it at that? In the end they’re flawed individuals doing the best they can. Just like the rest of us. Accept that, and move on.”

Well said!

224. Dom - January 10, 2014

Ok. It’s been a while since I posted here and I’ve read this whole thread. How depressing.

It seems that Mr Cawley has called for calm while Mr Mignogna has (wisely) avoided getting into a p*ssing contest, a few ST:PII and STC crewmembers have politely stated their cases and one poster whose initials rhyme with British Telecom seems to be stirring the the hornets’ nest and probably committing libel and endangering this site.

Who do you lot think you are? Messrs Cawley and Mignogna’s respective productions have been provided free of charge for you to watch and hopefully enjoy. What gives any of you the right to ask for a public ‘unburdening’ by these private individuals? What business is it of anyone’s beyond a need for pernicious gossip and blatant voyeurism? If you want to know what happens behind the scenes in these productions, go and help them out. I’m a professional video editor and, if I lived in the US, I would kill to work on either series. But I don’t. I also respect the privacy of these people. By what right do you peer at their personal lives?

Behind-the-scenes fall-outs and ‘creative differences’ are the norm with creative people and can have both positive and negative effects on the finished products.

Accept that a talented bunch of people are working their guts out to make something that will hopefully entertain. Every remark about the behind-the-scenes issues diminishes the labour of everyone involved (and now I’m guilty of this too!) and overshadows years of hard work.

We’re all here because we love Star Trek in one form or another. So this is me appealing to everyone, for the sake of the series we care about, to let this rest and concentrate on the final product.

Life’s too short, so let’s be thankful for what we’ve been given.

PS Regarding name spelling issues, a lot of people are using tablets and smartphones whose autocorrect functions can be a nightmare, correcting names like Meredyth to Meredith even when typed correctly. You can only check so many times.

Take a chill pill folks. Peace and love!

225. Kev-1 - January 10, 2014

This is excellent. The original scripts, which has been floating around for a while (got one on ebay) was pretty good too. Watched most of it, plan to see the rest. Only issue that stood out to me; McCoy’s “I never met an honorable Klingon,” line. He met a few, but the casual pettiness seems out of character for him — and unnecessary as an offhand comment on the bridge. But I liked watching this. Glad to see it produced finally.

226. THX-1138 - January 10, 2014

Oh god, why am I jumping in the water?

I see a lot of talk about how Trek fans should be ashamed about the state of “fandom”.

What nonsense. Why should I be ashamed of the actions of others? I own MY behavior, not someone else’s. If people other than I wish to make asses of themselves why should that reflect on me? And if someone is projecting it upon me what difference should it make? Will the Star Wars fans snicker at me at Comic Con because of the way some people acted on a Trek thread?

My “fanaticism” for Star Trek is mine. It is not a reflection of anybody else. I express it how I please and generally with only myself and my family, who are also fans of all types of genre. If I feel like dressing up in costume, so be it. If someone says that James Cawley or Vic Mignona have done a dis-service to Star Trek for one reason or another why should I give a rip? Why should any of us even believe any of it is real? So one guy screwed over the other guy (allegedly). Now the other guy is mad while the one guy has decided to do his own fan films. Who really cares? I am trying really hard to feel the effects of the ripples this has sent out across the sea of Star Trek fans and I…….can’t notice any changes whatsoever.

I have always liked Cawley and his NV/P2 stuff. And now that Vic is doing his stuff I really like it too. I think that ST Continues had the best episode so far, but that’s a matter of opinion. And it’s not like I’m getting invited to the set or offered a walk-on part in either production.

Here, in my book, is the only real measuring stick for the health of a particular franchises state of “fandom”:

It has lots of fans.

Star Trek still has lots of fans around the globe. State of health: good.

I’m not going to own any embarrassment for what another fan does, says, or how they behave.

227. DiscoSpock - January 10, 2014

@224 “Who do you lot think you are? Messrs Cawley and Mignogna’s respective productions have been provided free of charge for you to watch and hopefully enjoy. What gives any of you the right to ask for a public ‘unburdening’ by these private individuals? What business is it of anyone’s beyond a need for pernicious gossip and blatant voyeurism? If you want to know what happens behind the scenes in these productions, go and help them out. I’m a professional video editor and, if I lived in the US, I would kill to work on either series. But I don’t. I also respect the privacy of these people. By what right do you peer at their personal lives?”

Then the people on their production staff, who keep posting here about the issue, should just shut the hell up. Those are the people you should be addressing here, not the well-meaning people who are suggesting we want to make peace. You have this all backwards.

228. Captain Cohen - January 10, 2014

I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, and i appreciate the hard work that went into making it. James Cawley will be sadly missed (in my view). everyone has their own opinion, because we are individuals, and not a Borg Collective.

I’ve enjoyed Star Trek since it first came to the UK during the Apollo missions. I’ve loved the various “canon” versions, series, films, non-canon books, and fan-made episodes.

“IDIC” means we can disagree, but we don’t have to aim phasers and disrupters at each other.

Sound issues? When watching the episode try playing with your equaliser settings if you have any on your device. Other than that.. Just ask yourself.. Would you want no Trek or the best that someone can try to do? It doesn’t have the JJ budget, but it does have people who seriously love (NOT an oxymoron) Star Trek, and have worked damn hard on this.

Actor issues? OK, The Shat, the Thin Man (hee-hee) and the Southern Gentleman with the Mint Julep just ain’t available. but these people have tried their best.

I’m a fan and I’m a fan of the work of fans.
So thanks, and I can’t wait for the next Trek

229. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

@218 – That’s a very good question. Christopher Doohan is the only bright spot in the P2 rip-off known as Star Trek Continues. Either he is being fooled by Vic Mignogna’s BS, like many others were, or he has a high tolerance for Vic’s BS. Either way, I would rather see him involved with P2 more than just STC, or anything else Farragut Films related.

@223 – K-7 should not have resorted to calling me a moron. And the only things that are disgraceful are Vic’s behavior and what I described in post 216.

230. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

“Blue Thunder preaches Gene Roddenberry’s ideals on one hand, but practices the opposite in his continued one-sided attacks against Vic Mignogna, who isn’t here to defend himself.”

After all of the harm he has caused others, that’s probably the reason why. The truth hurts. ANd his actions also show a clear lack of maturity.
As have been the negative responses many have had, concerning the ‘dirty laundry’ being brought to light. Hell, even the fans’ horrid negativity about J.J. Abrams shows that lack.

Talk about throwing stones in glass houses!

It is ALL of THAT, that continues to make Star Trek fans look pathetic, and reinforces the old stereotypes the media has of the fandom!

231. Dom - January 10, 2014

229. Blue Thunder

So what’s the ‘dirty laundry?’ Make your point and be prepared to go to court for libel if you feel so strongly about it. All you say about Mr Mignogna is that he flaunts his so-called ‘BS.’

Just say it, take the legal consequences and move the Hell on. So far, from what I see, all you’ve done is derail an item about the ST:PII series you claim to adore and create a lot of aggro.

Mr Cawley was very polite and respectful of ST:C’s work, while, single-handedly, you’ve attempted to belittle their work with endless invective. Really, rather than play havoc with one of the friendliest forums out there, put up or shut up.

232. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

I’m not the only one who has shared what Vic has pulled. And the thread was long derailed before I posted my viewpoint. As far as playing havoc with the fan forums is concerned, others have played havoc with it before and still do. Especially when it comes to those who be-little and ridicule J.J. Abrams and his staff.

As far as creating a lot of aggro is concerned, you can blame that on Vic and others. Especially Alec Peters, since he is the one who let the cat out of the bag concerning Vic’s toxicity and the way he has hurt others. The information has spread all over the fan sites. I believe the information that you call dirty laundry and the point have already been made.

As far as being the friendliest of forums are concerned…ever since the original moderator of this thread abandoned ship, trekmovie.com has become like the trek bbs.

A place where something that was once cool has now become a fetid and festering sewer/pigmire by those who have no comprehension about Star Trek and its philosophy. Let alone any sense of its morals and ethics.

233. MJ - January 10, 2014

@231

More generalities???

Dom, in his post @230, made a very legitimate request that you provide specific information of instances for Vi’c's behavior that supports your continued “over-the-top” allegations here. I agree with Dom — it’s time you put up or shut up with specific allegations.

This bit about, “trust me, he’s an ass and it was all over the internet years ago” is not all that compelling. Provide either specific descriptions on this, or shut the F up and go away.

234. The Transformed Man - January 10, 2014

Ok episode… tried to cram too much into one hour (probably due to it originally being a two part story). At the halfway point the story becomes a fairly convoluted mess, but quickly gets back on track by the 3rd Act. Far and away the best looking episode to date and well staged. I know the episode was shot on a Red but it becomes apparent there must have been some reshoots done with a different HD camera due to some drastic lighting changes between some shots which were a little distracting.

Acting was pretty solid… nice to see Gil Gerard… the other two seniors officer performances were a bit “dicey.” Crawley was quite good in this episode and I think he finally got a real feel for the role and how to make it his own. Standouts were Mignogna as the baddie and Specht as his accomplice.

The biggest bugaboo Phase 2 suffers (and has always suffered from) is poor sound. Some scenes are fine while in other shots the sound is very flat and hollow… could use some ADR work.

Overall good job, probably the best Phase 2 episode to date.

235. Dom - January 10, 2014

231. Blue Thunder said: ‘The information has spread all over the fan sites. I believe the information that you call dirty laundry and the point have already been made.’

No no NO! SAY IT! I dare you! Put your fingers on your keyboard and state everything in detail or shut up! You started this and you have to see it through.

The web isn’t a place where you can choose a nickname and spew invective without legal consequences any more. State it now, point by point, with details, names and dates. Identify yourself with your real name and address or clam up.

Everyone’s waiting…

236. Anthony Falvo - January 10, 2014

Blue thunder is NOT part of this production ..We have really no idea who he is
and does nor speak for phase II

237. THX-1138 - January 10, 2014

Dom is right, Blue Thunder. You are exhibiting classic troll behavior. You make accusations behind the safety of your pseudonym and never provide specifics which can be verified. You repeat the same thing over and over. And then you say this is a black eye to the fanbase, which is what get’s me personally fired up. Sweeping statements which seem to imply that I have something to be ashamed about tick me the heck off.

I don’t know Alec Peters and I don’t care. Back up your talk or take a walk. Cawley has nothing to say about it and Vic has nothing to say about it. As a matter of fact nobody has anything to say about it but you. And you have failed miserably to present your message. You are treading very near “tin-foil hat” crazy.

My advice would be to state your case fully and clearly or run the risk of being run off this site by Matt Wright.

238. The Transformed Man - January 10, 2014

This fan film drama is tiresome and childish. So Vic Mignogna pissed you off… wow, big deal. I’ve worked on dozens of professional and semi-professional film productions… guess what??? People get pissed off and people get their feelings hurt, it’s the reality of filming passion projects with all of the egos and personalities that come into play. A set is an emotionally charged environment, as is an editing room. Get over it.

I was stunned to not see the director’s name at the front of the project like every other episode of Phase 2, and not only that, go to the IMDB listing for Kitumba, there’s no entry for Mignogna or Specht in the acting credits. Seriously, grow up; give people their credit and move on.

I mean if you are that upset with what Mignogna allegedly did, or did not do, simply don’t release the episode… or do like you are doing with other episodes… reshoot the damn thing and salvage what footage you can.

239. Patty W - January 10, 2014

219 & 233 – this episode was shot entirely during the main shoot in June 2009. (usually 10-14 days). Unlike some others, there were no pickups – so there really is no reason for McCoy to look thinner or heavier or different in any way. Only explanation I can imagine is lighting and camera angles and what have you.

227 – Blue Thunder is not part of the P2 “staff” and, looking through the thread, I see no “P2 staff” carrying on against Vic etc. Please don’t accuse them of bringing up dead drama from years ago.

235 – hmmm….looks like IMDb has not been updated. This was not an intentional exclusion of Vic and Michele. (I can speak authoritatively as I was the one who maintained IMDb for P2). There was a point in time when the episode could not be finished because the production didn’t possess needed footage. At that time an effort was put forth to reshoot the missing footage with new actors, which meant having to reshoot the rest of their footage to maintain continuity. At that time the new actors were given credit on IMDb. It looks like it was not updated after the production obtained the missing footage. (the IMDb credits were always updated and corrected as soon as an episode was released – because a lot of things change from shoot to finished project. Only the basic credits were put up at the time of the shoot because of this.) I am sure someone will be on this task soon and the IMDb credits will reflect the ones in the episode accordingly.

240. ikey - January 10, 2014

It’s very obvious that Blue Thunder is a “keyboard warrior”- spouting hate filled diatribes over the internet that he/she would never do in person. Regardless of what went down between Mr. Cawley and Mr. Migogna, I re watched Kitumba and bloody loved it (I even felt guilty for my past comments!). Blue Thunder is the Trekkie/Trekker equivalent of a rabid One Direction/Justin Bieber fan. Nothing more.

241. HelenofPeel - January 10, 2014

Wow. Wow. Wow.

We’ve got a very disgruntled person called “Blue Thunder”, possibly a prima donna in his own right (Alec Peters?), upset at another possible prima donna (Vic Mignogna?)…

And the drama won’t end until Vic puts on a red shirt, and Alec puts on a gold shirt and beams him into the mouth of a Gorn.

Give it a rest.

242. Matt Wright - January 10, 2014

Okay it’s pretty clear Blue Thunder just can’t leave well enough alone. So to you Blue Thunder, you’ve had your say many times over, so please just stop. Failure to do so will result in banning.

To everyone else, you know what they say about feeding trolls… let’s move on shall we?

243. HelenofPeel - January 10, 2014

My little take on Kitumba…
1. Excellent CGI
2. Acting: Cringeworthy as always
3. Story: Some pretty deep holes to overlook

A fan film with really good production values, needing to really focus on the acting and the plot holes.

Same as always. But that’s why I love them.

244. Red Dead Ryan - January 10, 2014

Dom,

Glad you’re back. But you do owe MJ an apology for your “cupid stunt” comment you directed at him a couple of months ago.

245. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

Just to clarify things, I am NOT Alec Peters.

All that aside, I do understand where Alec is coming from in terms of his resentment toward Vic and his narcicisstic BS. Having been ‘burned’ by Vic(even if it was by an act of proxy from one of his business partners at Farragut Films), I can understand why Alec hates Vic’s guts. I certainly do.

To Matt Wright – no offense, but maybe you need to focus more on cleaning up trekmovie.com. I’ve seen more hateful and resentful remarks toward J.J. Abrams and other Star Trek related discussions on this site that are just as bad, if not worse than what I have had to say about certaiin issues(in other fan’s opinions).

I’m surprised that you haven’t clamped down on those former subjects as much.

246. Dunsel Report - January 10, 2014

The Transformed Man has it right. I’m sure Harve Bennett got burned a lot in Hollywood but he has not taken to the Web to flame everyone.

And I don’t agree that harsh remarks about the last movie are in the same league as internicene Phase II beef. One is fans getting mad about their entertainment standards and the other is professional film makers sniping at each other like it was their Last Battlefield.

247. MC1 Doug - January 10, 2014

#131 ” CBS said they could finish the episodes in the can, but could not use anymore Phase II scripts.”

“Mindsifter was not a script for ST: PII.

It was a short story from one of the first ST anthologies “The New Voyages” back in 1975 written by Shirley Maiewski.

248. helenofpeel - January 10, 2014

Blue Thunder… stop with your incessant whining already… it’s way beyond venting… you’ve made your point, now go to the local pub and drink it away, telling your story to anyone who will listen…

249. MJ - January 10, 2014

Thats OK, I forgive Dom for that. He was a bit of a orses hass, but that was a long time ago. ;-)

=====================================
244. Red Dead Ryan – January 10, 2014
Dom,

Glad you’re back. But you do owe MJ an apology for your “cupid stunt” comment you directed at him a couple of months ago.

250. MC1 Doug - January 10, 2014

*sigh* we sure do (sadly) live in a society where there always has to be someone who feels like they have to stir up the sh**. That is all I have to say about the acrimony on this thread, other than it’s strikes me as pretty immature.

I very much enjoyed “Kitumba!” One of the best yet and look forward to the transition to the new voyages and new Kirk (but I will miss Cawley too). I thought it was a solid production and thank everyone involved.

Filmed in 2009? Wow! That far back. Patty (or James), just how many episodes have been filmed awaiting post-production work to see them to completion?

My thanks to the crews of all of the online TREK episodes. You’re all keeping TREK alive for us fans!

251. Matt Wright - January 10, 2014

@ Blue Thunder it has nothing to do with your views, and has to do with crapping all over the comments. You’ve made your points about the behind the scenes drama.

252. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

@250 – That’s human race for you. Even in fan cults(regardless of the common interest)it seems fans can’t find any common ground. Especially when presenting the truth about certain topics and the complexities there of.

It’s amazing that Star Trek fandom has lasted as long as it has. With all of the infighting between those who are right and wrong, it amazes me how it has sustained such a longevity.

Dr. Zaius was right about the human condition 100%. It clearly shows here in trekmovie.com and trek bbs.

Rick Berman, Ronald Moore, and Brannon Braga would have been proud!(note the sarcasm)

253. MJ - January 10, 2014

@252

“Dr. Zaius was right about the human condition 100%. It clearly shows here in trekmovie.com and trek bbs.”

Your quoting of Dr. Zaius is funny, because you remind me a lot of General Ursus with all your war-mongering over-the-top remarks here lately.

And Rick Berman and Brannon Bragga nearly sent Star Trek down the toilet drain, so excuse me if I am not all that impressed with your piss-poor attempt at sarcasm.

254. Red Shirt Diaries - January 10, 2014

When I think of “Blue Thunder,” I think of an overrated 80′s action movie that has pretty much been forgotten by everyone now.

Maybe we should apply that same sort of thinking an opinion to this version of “Blue Thunder”?

255. Blue Thunder - January 10, 2014

@253 – As I said earlier, I take more after Taylor. However, given the fact that Ursus had a point regarding the human existence, I’ll take the Ursus reference as a compliment.

Frankly, I am not concerned whether you are impressed or not. Why do you think I referred to Berman and Braga. From certain points of view(as some have pointed out regarding CBS), the infighting that is going on, regardless of the issues in trekfandom, could also very well accomplish what those two nearly did to Star Trek.

@248 – Thank you for your suggestion, but I do not drink all the time. Only in moderation do I indulge in alcohol consumption.

256. MJ - January 10, 2014

@255 Taylor never bitched and whined like a 13-year old girl.

257. pilotfred - January 11, 2014

personal for a fans film it brilliant,so any miskates i will let slide,however if i was to compare to the orginal program this still stand up better for miskates being made point of view,how many moons dose vulcan have? so spock father was dead well according to have spock spoke of them ealy on,then of course they are alive,they change the modle of the enterprise a few times however kept reusing the fx,miskate happen live with it

258. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

I have to say, I’m loving this whole concept of Fan Films, with all of their passion.

“Kitumba” obviously has very impressive production values for a fan film.

I found the overall story interesting and appreciated all of the tie-ins with ST:E and TOS—Augments, House of Duras, etc…

The scene where the crew are conflicted about whether to kill the unarmed Klingon ship, with its “greater good” theme, was compelling and worked very well all around.

There is much room for improvement in the acting. Some of the acting limitations might be obviated with a bit tighter editing and choice of shots—for example, cutting a half-second sooner after a line is delivered, or panning around the room to distract from an actor whose delivery is short on expressiveness. There is also room for improvement in the dialogue, which was at times clunky and verbose. Shortcomings in acting and the dialogue took me out of the movie several times or had my attention wandering away too much.

On the whole, this was certainly a noble effort and it’s gotten me more excited about the potential for fan films. I’m looking forward to more of these, especially if they show steady improvement!

259. Jerr - January 11, 2014

@247
yes I was wrong and admitted 142 was correct back in 151. I read a lot of stuff and get my facts mixed up from time to time. I’m a BT that keeps digging a hole just because I’m board :-)

260. Captain Slow - January 11, 2014

@ 256 MJ

Didn’t Taylor get shot and accidentally set off a doomsday weapon?

261. Captain Slow - January 11, 2014

So I don’t know how good an idea it is to be compared with someone like that.

262. Toonloon - January 11, 2014

I’m not up on all this rivalry but three things are very clear to me:

1/ Mr Cawley is a class act

2/ Mr Montagna should get a lawyer

3/ If the people who post the libellous things about Vic are being truthful, they should inform the police of his behaviour

263. Fez - January 11, 2014

@250 There are two in Post- Production at the moment, “The Holiest Thing” which is due out Feb. 14, “Bread and Savagery” which needs a few pick-up shots and in June we will film “Mind-sifter”. So we have three episodes at the moment at various stages of Production

264. Dom - January 11, 2014

249. MJ

I do apologise unreservedly. I hope you do realise Cupid Stunt was a TV character, not a name-calling. I felt you were being a bit diva-ish and forgot that you’d have to be forty-ish and British to get the remark. The comedian in question is Kenny Everett and he was very funny.

http://youtu.be/GLBW8L198GQ

Anyway, it was a long time ago and I hope you’re well!

265. Captain Slow - January 11, 2014

@ 263 Fez

Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t there going to be an episode where we see Scotty in the 24th century sort of like with Sulu in WEaT?

266. Larry Talbot - January 11, 2014

@262. A “class act” would simply forge ahead and credit the episode like he always has–other people’s unprofessional behavior be damned. That would have been classy. “I don’t engage in ‘tit for tat’–unless I’m really justified in doing so.”

267. VM - January 11, 2014

Hey guys, just chill ok?
James has reached – out, so will I. We reach – lol ;)

V

268. The Transformed Man - January 11, 2014

@239 Patty, are you sure about that? There are some shots on both the bridge and in the conference room which look like they have been shot by a different camera altogether. In particular shots the depth of field is greatly diminished and look to have reduced resolution power.

I’ve shot on the Red multiple times and have had to do inserts with a different camera… while I had virtually identical lighting conditions the shots looked drastically different with the Red having deeper shadows and more detail in those shadows. I usually wind up altering my inserts in post via color correction filters.

Not meaning to nag… just a curiosity question.

269. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

“Kitumba” got me enthused enough to watch “Of Gods of Men” finally.

What a difference professional actors make! The OGAM story actually wasn’t as good as the Kitumba story—slapping together the unrelated TOS elements of Charlie X, The Guardian of Forever, and Gary Mitchell was kind of a cheesy premise—but the actors sold it better. Tim Russ’s direction obviously helped too. There are some really enjoyable scenes and performances in OGAM, though, as always during excessively long action scenes, my mind started to wander during the space battle toward the end of the movie. Given the low tech special effects of OGAM, I found it odd that the production would spend so much time on an action scene. With a low budget production, I would expect them to play to their strengths and not their weaknesses. The dialogue was also better in OGAM, though Kitumba has better looking production values—though, this might be a result of OGAM having been made 6 years earlier.

270. Kev - January 11, 2014

what is going on here exactly lol I thought this was a discussion about the work here, not personal attacks?

also is this the same group that made Pilgrim of Eternity, or is that another group with this one?

and also yeah some of Bones comments seemed kinda assholish at times, like do you want a cloak to go along with that dagger, and almost like its the opposite of what he normally says.

which sometimes seem like what the audience is thinking really in the original series and the movies, so to have him act like that seemed really off

plus it was Kirk and spock that had run ins with the Klingons most of the time and fought with them, hence Kirk’s additude towards them in the 6th film

not Mccoy, and his famous lines I tried to save him damn it.

271. Pony R. Horton - January 11, 2014

@267, Correct, there was a pick up shot in the conference room with me as K’Sia shot a full year after the original 2009 shoot, and the lighting, my hair (wig) and camera were different.

Vic did the makeup on me that time, and try as he might, he does not have the level of experience that pro makeup man John Paladin has, who did the Klingon makeup on DS9, or so I’m told.

At least my beard is MY beard, so that looked reasonably the same. However, the lighting tended to be mostly overhead, shadowing my eyes in the primary shoot, and in the pickups it was lit with lights on C-stands which were at a lower angle, causing my face to be lit more flatly.

272. Kev - January 11, 2014

also Michael Hall and the rest of you I’d like to apologize for spamming about the enterprise design and all that with my second post, as I have a redesign of the TMP refit in my head that I’m trying to get up to the level of the original

and seeing the Phase 2 refit at the end kinda triggered that and I just literally did my first concept photo here this morning

http://www.flickr.com/photos/114173267@N08/11890796764/sizes/o/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/114173267@N08/11890796764/

vs the original look

http://www.flickr.com/photos/114173267@N08/11890799154/sizes/o/

and this is why in the past here I did tend to go on and on about the original enterprise design as I’m pretty much trying to make my own version, ala Madkoifish, Gabriel Koerner and the rest of you guys out there to honor Matt Jefferies and give what I think is a better alternative to the modern one.

and also hence why I think when you guys first showed up here with the First renderings of Phase 2 I went nuts with the technical details about it and the changes between tos and tmp enterprise

but I also supposed it could be far worse, atleast in some way my ideas could help you guys along here

anyways I just wanted to say I’m just enthuastic not a hop all over the place nutball here and I’m sorry if I derailed anything here.

273. Fez - January 11, 2014

@265 The episode you are thinking of is our next release “The Holiest Thing”

274. Blue Thunder - January 11, 2014

@256 – MJ, I seem to recall that you said the following after I had written the following negative review of Pilgrim Of Eternity. It went something like this:

http://trekmovie.com/2013/05/30/fan-production-star-trek-continues-releases-first-episode/

*@583: “I have seen families of murder victims less bitter than you dude.”

This kind of comment has no place here. Fine, you don’t like his inside opinions on a Trek production, but to equate this with murder victims? wtf?

That has got to be the worst analogy and worst choice of words in this history of any post I have ever read here.

That fact that some of you are “literally” out to crucify this guy, leads me to believe that he is not that far from the truth here. If he was just making this up, then the response would not nearly be so horribly serious and vitriolic.

Blue Thunder,

You go right on telling the truth, man. Don’t let anyone here bully you into shutting up.*

What changed your mind all of a sudden?

275. Michael Hall - January 11, 2014

“also Michael Hall and the rest of you I’d like to apologize for spamming about the enterprise design and all that with my second post, as I have a redesign of the TMP refit in my head that I’m trying to get up to the level of the original”

No apologies necessary. I enjoyed your post, thought that “intermediate E” model was very interesting, and think very highly of the CG work (which I dabble in myself) that you linked to above. What program did you use to model your version?

Amazing, how that fifty year-old design can still remain an obsession with so many. :-)

276. BDWong - January 11, 2014

269,
you’re kidding right? Tim Russ couldn’t direct a Play-Doh production of Jack and Jill. Of Gods and Men was disastrous and embarrassing.

277. Michael Hall - January 11, 2014

Never mind; I see that you retouched the original rendering in Photoshop. Still a very nice, creditable job, even if I don’t agree with all of your aesthetic choices.

278. MJ - January 11, 2014

@264

Dom, sure man, no hard feelings.

@274

Just shut the F up already, troll. ENOUGH !!!!!

279. MJ - January 11, 2014

I agree. It’s cringe-worthy and nearly unwatchable.
===================================
276. BDWong – January 11, 2014
269,
you’re kidding right? Tim Russ couldn’t direct a Play-Doh production of Jack and Jill. Of Gods and Men was disastrous and embarrassing.

280. Xplodin_Nacelle - January 11, 2014

Very Impressive!!! – so much so, that it inspired me to further watch their “Enemy Starfleet” episode.

281. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

276. BDWong – January 11, 2014

—269, you’re kidding right? Tim Russ couldn’t direct a Play-Doh production of Jack and Jill. Of Gods and Men was disastrous and embarrassing.—

I think that he got some very good scenes out of the actors in places. The shots flowed nicely and never took me out of the moment.

Can you be more specific about how you think the directing fell short?

282. MJ - January 11, 2014

@281. Yet you think STID sucks….huh???

I know you have “your reasons,” but dude, come on?

At least be consistent in knowing what stinks, regardless of who produced a given Trek production. You are straining any belief I had previously held that you are at least making an attempt to be objective here in your opinions on Star Trek.

283. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

282. MJ – January 11, 2014

You want to start a discussion comparing and contrasting fan films with BR Trek?

I just want it to be clear that it is you who are bringing up this comparison, so that 100 posts from now, when you are whining like a little girl and begging me to stop talking about it with others who have joined in the discussion, I can simply refer you back to this point in the thread.

If you think you can handle it, I am happy to proceed. ;-)

284. DiscoSpock - January 11, 2014

Cygnus, MJ,

Fortunately, to decide the objectivity of your debate here on comparing Into Darkness and Of God’s and Men, we have the following ratings from normal movie fans from Rotten Tomatoes on both productions (which includes nearly 1000 user reviews of Of Gods and Men):

Into Darkness: 90 (“Popcorn” rating)

Of Gods and Men: 52 (“Trash Can” rating)

The results here are so conclusive, that I don’t even need to comment on them. Movie reviewers in general think Of Gods and Men is kind of a stinker, while then generally really like Into Darkness. The poll here is so demonstrative in showing this trend, that the conclusion here almost approaches the level of becoming a fact.

CASE CLOSED

285. Captain Slow - January 11, 2014

@ 273 Fez

Cool thanks. I hadn’t heard anything more about it and thought the idea might have been abandoned.

286. Fez - January 11, 2014

@285 Captain Slow,

Nah, it wasn’t abandoned… it wasn’t shot at the main shoot so we had a pickup for it later on

287. MJ - January 11, 2014

@Cygnus

Nice try. The discussion I am having is your particular assessment of the Of Gods and Men Star Trek production, which you really like a lot, versus your particular assessment of Star Trek Into Darkness, which you don’t like much. This specific inconsistency is the discussion that I am having with you. And your views here frankly show a blatant lack of objectivity for being able to intelligently assess a given episode/movie of Star Trek.

@Disco Spock

” Movie reviewers in general think Of Gods and Men is kind of a stinker, while then generally really like Into Darkness. The poll here is so demonstrative in showing this trend, that the conclusion here almost approaches the level of becoming a fact. CASE CLOSED.”

Yes, this is so obvious, that this is barely worthy of discussion here.

288. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

287. MJ – January 11, 2014

—And your views here frankly show a blatant lack of objectivity for being able to intelligently assess a given episode/movie of Star Trek—

Well, if my opinion has no validity, then I guess there’s no point in my sharing it.

And, in any case, Disco Spock has already ruled that the topic is not open for debate.

289. Blue Thunder - January 11, 2014

@278 – Cat got your tongue, MJ? Got nothing to say? I rest my case in that particular matter(i.e. what you said). By the way, I’m 6 ft, 4 in. I would certainly not qualify as a troll.

On the subject about OGAM, Star Trek – Of Gods and Men could have been better had they were able to secure the appearances of Gary Lockwood and Robert Walker, Jr. Since they were not and they had replacements play those iconic parts, OGAM just proved that Sky Conway isn’t all that great of a filmmaker. Quite honestly, SC is a lousy filmmaker.

290. MJ - January 11, 2014

@288.

Agreed. Might as well move on to a different topic.

291. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

289. MJ – January 11, 2014

But, MJ.

If my opinion regarding all Trek series and episodes has no validity, then what other topic could I possibly be qualified to discuss?

Maybe it’s better if I just let people with objective, valid opinions like you do the talking.

I will just read the posts by you and others and maybe that will teach me how to view Trek the right way.

292. MJ - January 11, 2014

@290. Sounds good.

293. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

I hear it often said that one should never meet one’s heroes, but I would just like to say that I do not regret having met mine.

(It’s MJ. <3 )

294. MJ - January 11, 2014

@293. Thanks — much appreciated!!!

295. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

You betcha!!

296. wtriker1701 - January 11, 2014

@267. VM – January 11, 2014

Thanks for clearing that up.
Looking forward to the next STC and P2 productions in 2014!

And, of course: April 1st!

297. Cygnus-X1 - January 11, 2014

Though, I must say that I was a little surprised to see you compare my assessment of the fan film, “Of Gods and Men,” with my totally unrelated assessment of the JJ Abrams major studio production, STID. Such comparisons, you said, are “ludicrous and moronic” :

210. MJ – January 9, 2014

—I don’t even get why people need to use these fan Star Trek productions as an excuse to take potshots at JJ-Trek? These are completely different animals. Any analogies made are ludicrous and moronic.—

287. MJ – January 11, 2014

—@Cygnus Nice Try. The discussion I am having is your particular assessment of the Of Gods and Men Star Trek production, which you really like a lot, versus your particular assessment of Star Trek Into Darkness, which you don’t like much. This specific inconsistency is the discussion that I am having with you. And your views here frankly show a blatant lack of objectivity for being able to intelligently assess a given episode/movie of Star Trek.—

I guess you changed your mind and decided that it was no longer ludicrous and moronic to compare them after all.

298. Patty W - January 11, 2014

#250 MC1 Doug – the episodes you are thinking of (which you will find on IMDb and Wiki) are: “Mind-Sifter” adapted by me from Shirley Maiweiski’s original fanzine short story (with family’s permission and participation – I was a friend of hers going way back), principle photography June 2010. “The Protracted Man” written by Dave Galanter and David Gerrold, principle photography June 2011. “Bread and Savagery” written by Rick Chambers, principle photography June 2012, “The Holiest Thing” written by Rick Chambers, principle photography June 2013.

“The Holiest Thing” has been announced as the next episode to be released…date 2/14/2014

“Bread and Savagery” is awaiting pickup shots for missing footage.

“The Protracted Man” is missing some key footage with actors that will not return (Vic Mignogna), so David Gerrold has stated publicly that it will be redone at a future time. (meaning the footage shot will be scrapped and this episode can be considered “lost” at this time.)

“Mind-Sifter”‘s footage is also being scrapped. This involves losing footage of James as Kirk and David Sherin as McCoy. (Two of the scenes shot can be found floating around on YouTube channels, never to be seen elsewhere ;-) LOL ) A new script starring Brian Gross as Kirk and written by someone else has been announced to be filming in June 2014.

With Phase II it’s a little difficult to classify anything as “post production”…as post production here often means “still waiting for principle photography to be finished” (which classifies it as ‘in production”) and usually most VFX work is completed by the end of the principle shoot in June!

#268 – yes, I am POSITIVE that Doc John (aka “McCoy”) had all his footage shot on a RED at the time of principle photography. (He’s usually available only a few days, in fact – something about his patients expecting him to be in surgery, those silly guys). However, I also know that there are places in the footage where the editor had to do some tricks to make the shots work…for instance, it’s possible that he zoomed in to make a shot a “close-up” when is was shot as a “master”. That’s my only rationale for why some shots may appear not to match. Okay, maybe they were transcoded by a different person with a different method? I know the transcoding was one thing that held the finished episode up as well.

#236 Anthony Falvo…please, learn some better PR skills. Everyone knows exactly who Blue Thunder is – that’s why we can say that he is definitely not part of the P2 production crew. Saying we don’t know who he is but then stating he is not part of the crew is just goofy. (of course I am assuming you are not the one person in the crew that doesn’t know who he is.)

299. Anthony Falvo - January 11, 2014

We dont who he is
…he has several alias you dont know who he is either

300. Patty W - January 11, 2014

okay, Tony…I guess you are completely out of the loop. Give James a call, and stop speaking for everyone else who knows exactly who he is. James and I have his phone number for heaven’s sake. (We’ve used it to tell him thank you but back off and calm down.)

301. Toothless Grishnar Cat - January 11, 2014

Folks, on the off chance anybody here is still interested, I did some Google checking on this “Blue Thunder” character, and he posts the exact same spiel on multiple websites. Also, he seems to post on imdb under TheSentinel68, and as well under the name “Christopher Brent” (an alias, maybe). He’s been doing this for years now. That’s….. beyond words. Just google “blue thunder vic mignona” and the pieces will fall into place.

Even if there is a legitimate beef to be had with Vic (and there probably is/was), this behaviour is pitiful and obsessive-compulsive. Rather than be flattered at the “support”, I suspect Mr. Cawley is glad he isn’t BT!

302. pattyw - January 11, 2014

And Tony…..I am not trying to start an argument. …just pointing out that it is silly to say both we don’t know who he is and that he’s definitely not part of the crew. If we didn’t know who he was he very well could be one of the crew who hadn’t revealed him or herself to anyone. But, yes we do know. He is not part of the p2 crew.

303. MJ - January 11, 2014

@297

Cygnus, I took you at your word that you wanted to close out discussion with me on this topic. Come on guy, stick to your committment. You are the one who pronounced this as over, not me?

Sheesh, make up your mind?????

304. Cygnus-X1 - January 12, 2014

302. MJ – January 11, 2014

Uh huh. ;-)

305. Anthony Falvo - January 12, 2014

Patty
We dont care who he is
and he does not represent Phase II in any way and neither do you
we have moved beyond all this nonsense…
Have a great a life

306. Daniel - January 12, 2014

Star Trek Continues first episode (“Pilgrim of Eternity?”) is the first fan film I wanted to watch more than once. I watched it twice.

“Kitumba” I have now watched three times.

Bottom line is that these Phase II guys are getting better and better, any way you cut it. Truly impressive. Continues is off to a good start.

From here on out it’s the team with the best script that will impress us the most.

307. Patty W - January 12, 2014

Tony, neither do you. That’s the producers’ job.

My follow up comment was deleted, so I will try to post it again. I am not trying to start an argument with you. I was simply pointing out that saying we don’t know who he is and then stating that he’s not part of the crew is just plain silly. If no one knows who he is, he very well could be part of the crew who just hasn’t revealed himself to the other crew.

308. Cygnus-X1 - January 12, 2014

On the lighter side, I have enjoyed all of the variations on the spelling of Vic Mignogna’s surname in this thread. I think someone referred to him as Joe Mantegna at one point.

Though, I don’t particularly like Vic in the role of Kirk on Continues. I liked him a lot better as Malkthon in Kitumba. He gave one of the best performances in the movie in that role, perhaps the best. Really quite compelling and enjoyable. Chewed the scenery. Shame about him being the Antichrist or whatever.

309. Daniel - January 12, 2014

Patty, you obviously have a bone to pick, both here on on the Trekbbs. I’m hoping you get over it in a year or two. Bottom line is that Vic, Pony, the guy who played the Kitumba and James put in really good performances.

By the way, I loved the line “Improved. With human DNA.”

310. Toonloon - January 12, 2014

@ 305

“Star Trek Continues first episode (“Pilgrim of Eternity?”) is the first fan film I wanted to watch more than once. I watched it twice.”

I’m with you there.

311. Cygnus-X1 - January 12, 2014

310. Toonloon – January 12, 2014

—@ 305 “Star Trek Continues first episode (“Pilgrim of Eternity?”) is the first fan film I wanted to watch more than once. I watched it twice.”

I’m with you there.—

Add me to that list.

Just watched it. VERY impressive. Acting is convincing and solid almost all around, with some great moments between Vic and Chris Doohan. Performances by Michael Forest and Diana Hale were touching. I appreciated the cameos by Marina Sirtis and Jamie Bamber (and the irony of Bamber having played “Apollo” on BSG). The story and dialogue were also impressive and quite compelling. The production values were, of course, also very impressive. I also appreciated the choice of shots.

STC’s “Pilgrim of Eternity” not only held my attention throughout, but was enjoyable throughout. I’m watching this one again for sure. Too bad about Vic’s cold black heart of pure evil, but there’s no denying that he’s a very talented guy who did a bang-up job on this episode.

312. Dom - January 12, 2014

310. Toonloon

Yep, Pilgrim of Eternity was the first and only fan production I made it the whole way through. I popped it on to have a look at the first five minutes and watched the lot. Very impressive.

313. Toonloon - January 12, 2014

The only note of caution i would offer STC is not to write for the actors, write for the characters. I love Chris doohan but I felt Scotty was too front and centre, probably because it’s such a coup to have him. His late father James rarely, if ever, got as many good scenes.

314. pattyw - January 12, 2014

Daniel I don’t and don’t even know what you are talking about…so I guess it’s not “obvious”. I have maintained an impartial and professional comments. .. had a lot of journalism experience to make it easy. If you disagree with my opinion than that simply qualifies as a difference of opinion not “a bone to pick”

315. Michael Hall - January 12, 2014

Hmm. While I thought “Pilgrim of Eternity” was a very respectable inaugural effort for ST: Continues, and “Kitumba” very impressive in its scope, preferring either one to “World Enough and Time” is like saying you think “The Immunity Syndrome” is a better episode than “City On the Edge of Forever”– i.e., unfathomable. At least, that’s how it seems to me. But that’s what makes it a universe. :-)

316. Garak's Pride - January 12, 2014

“Hmm. While I thought “Pilgrim of Eternity” was a very respectable inaugural effort for ST: Continues, and “Kitumba” very impressive in its scope, preferring either one to “World Enough and Time” is like saying you think “The Immunity Syndrome” is a better episode than “City On the Edge of Forever”– i.e., unfathomable.”

I agree with you, Michael. I’d put it as “nonsensical.” I think it is certainly a real “huh, did I really just read that?” moment for most of us to see someone proffer that opinion here.

Pilgrim of Eternity suffered from bad acting and a poor story-line. And I found it a bit difficult to watch and elderly Michael Forrest try to capture back the magic of his original role of nearly 40 years ago. Forrest was just to old and frail to make it work, and it pains me to say this. It’s good that it got STC going, but it’s a really lame fan episode.

317. Garak's Pride - January 12, 2014

“The only note of caution i would offer STC is not to write for the actors, write for the characters. I love Chris doohan but I felt Scotty was too front and centre, probably because it’s such a coup to have him. His late father James rarely, if ever, got as many good scenes.”

I could not disagree more. Doohan as Scotty, is by far the best actor of this fan group. Hence, he needs to be highlighted, and they should write for the actor in that particular case. And they need to de-emphasize McCoy, because that fan actor is simply not cutting it at all.

And I’ll say it here whether people like it or not, Vic is a much better Kirk than James. James always has the forced aggression and smart-ass grin that I can never get beyond when watching him. Vic is less forced and more believable.

318. Blue Thunder - January 12, 2014

@317 – Vic’s performance is less forced and more believable?

Not with a feminine sounding voice. If anything, it is not convincing at all.

Even his performance, or in this case, imitation of one of Bill Shatner’s music videos was less than entertaining.

I’ve seen and heard better performances from a box of fiber cereal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8RLrzto950

319. Toonloon - January 13, 2014

@ 317. So why don’t they just make a Scotty series then? Why call it Star Trek Continues? Do you think that’s what would have happened in Season 4? You’re missing the whole point of the project.

Don’t get my wrong I LOVE Chris Doohan. But he’s playing Scotty (brilliantly) not Kirk. Scotty shouldn’t get more lines than Bones.

320. Cygnus-X1 - January 13, 2014

319. Toonloon – January 13, 2014

—Don’t get my wrong I LOVE Chris Doohan. But he’s playing Scotty (brilliantly) not Kirk. Scotty shouldn’t get more lines than Bones.—

I have to say that this doesn’t make a whole lot of sense with respect to what Continues or any fan production likely has on hand to work with.

They have to play to their strengths, and it’s not like they’re knee-deep in Oscar-candidate performances. If if were a case of Scotty being a more prominent character than Kirk, then I’d say you have a point and they might consider spinning off a new series featuring Scotty. But that really wasn’t the case in “Pilgrim of Eternity.” And there were some TOS episodes which featured Scotty more than others. Not a lot, but there were some. Bottom line: with the limited talent and other resources of a fan production, they’d be foolish not to play to their strengths and feature their best talent as much as possible without deviating too far from the basic premise and art-form of the show.

321. TRP - January 13, 2014

Congratulations on another fun adventure Phase II gang! I was entertained yet again. I do love what you have done and look forward to each new story. When you guys finally beamed down, you sure did it right. Kudos!

322. Michael Hall - January 13, 2014

“Pilgrim of Eternity suffered from bad acting and a poor story-line. And I found it a bit difficult to watch and elderly Michael Forrest try to capture back the magic of his original role of nearly 40 years ago. Forrest was just to old and frail to make it work, and it pains me to say this. It’s good that it got STC going, but it’s a really lame fan episode.”

Well, I happen to think better of this show than you do. My main complaint with it is that it’s a sequel to a TOS episode that in my view frankly didn’t merit one in the first place. For my money the performances are mostly serviceable, and Michael Forrest acquitted himself just fine. Add in the CGI work which reflects the aesthetic of TOS far more than Phase 2′s does, and Michelle Specht, who is not only gorgeous to look at but a reasonably decent actress, and I’ll be on board for the next one. Whatever its flaws, “Pilgrim of Eternity” was, at the very least, vastly superior to New Voyages’ first episode “Come What May,” which looks pretty embarrassing today.

But Marc Scott Zicree’s “World Enough and Time” is something special. Not only is it likely the best show that will ever feature the character of Hikaru Sulu, it is a genuinely moving and poignant tale in its own right, with the Phase 2 cast giving IMO their best performances to date; a wonderful original score rather than the usual pastiche of old TOS musical cues; and some brilliant FX work from the Dave School that make the story both intimate and epic at the same time. It’s not without its own fan-film issues (including a soft middle section that could definitely use some pruning), but then, what TOS episode ever was issue-free? Had it aired in that hypothetical fourth season I have no doubt that it would rate in the series’ Top 20 shows, if not the Top 10, as the general acclaim (including a Nebula nomination) upon its release demonstrated.

My suspicion is that Phase 2 won’t produce something so worthwhile, that can speak to both hardcore fans and casual viewers (including my brother, who was bowled-over by the show) ever again. But I wish them all the best in their efforts to prove me wrong! :-)

323. James Cawley - January 13, 2014

Micheal,
I agree wholeheartedly that our pilot SUCKED.
The only thing I will point out, is that when we started out, we had to build everything from the staff and the sets, costumes and props, to finding people who would perform the roles. We did not have the luxury of piggy backing our efforts with another production to have sets or Companies like Anovos or playmates producing usable costumes and props for us to use. We had to come up with everything, and in hindsight it was a tough job to do, and yet we managed to stumble across the finish line. It was not easy and it has never been easy and it still is not.
It is a MIRACLE that any fan film production gets made whether mine or someone else’s. Fans should marvel at the dedication and perseverance of the fellow fans and just be proud that someone like themselves actually gave it a go! After all so many of us would give their right arm to a part of filmed Trek. I have to say that I am impressed by all the other groups out there working to make their shows, I am thrilled to see these 21st century version of the FANZINES brought to life. To all the other groups out there enjoy yourself while you can and absolutely make the best of it while you are doing it !

324. Danpaine - January 13, 2014

322. Michael Hall – January 13, 2014

“But Marc Scott Zicree’s “World Enough and Time” is something special.”

Agreed. I really enjoyed that. At times I even forgot it was a fan production. Great story. Looking forward to “Mindsifter,” too.

325. Cygnus-X1 - January 13, 2014

323. James Cawley – January 13, 2014

Hear, hear!

326. Michael Hall - January 13, 2014

James,

I completely understand what you’re saying. One reason that “Pilgrim of Eternity” was as decent a start to ST: Continues as it turned out to be was that many of the fans involved with that production had the benefit of seeing the remarkable progress New Voyages/Phase 2 made in such a short time–going from Amateur Hour to a production that, on its best days, can rival or surpass what the “Trek Sausage Factory” on Gower street has been giving us for the past fifteen years. As Nick Meyer has said when refusing to bash STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE, it was only because that film existed that THE WRATH OF KHAN was as good as it was.

In its ongoing efforts at doing great work in spite of the hardships and difficulties I personally witnessed on the “Origins” set, Phase 2 repeatedly demonstrates where genuine love for the subject matter and a commitment to quality (as opposed to buckets of Viacom cash) can get you. Just as TOS led to many individuals actually working in the sciences, I don’t doubt that Phase 2 has inspired a few careers in the entertainment industry. Maybe more than a few.

And I hope that I didn’t offend with my speculation that you won’t, in the end, produce another show with as much universal appeal as “World Enough and Time.” Let me hasten to add that with the exception of “The Child” (which I unfortunately felt had any number of issues), I’ve enjoyed to one degree or another every episode that Phase 2 has released since then. But with WEAT you sang well above the key anyone could expect from a fan film, and much as with TOS and “City on the Edge of Forever” you’ve set yourself a real challenge in reaching those heights again. But that doesn’t mean I don’t think the effort is worth making. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have bothered to crew on “Origins,” right?

327. Toonloon - January 13, 2014

@ 323 & 325

Hear, hear.

@320 Cygnus. Sorry mate but I disagree with you on the absence of talent in the main characters. Vic as Kirk and the other gentleman as Spock are just as good. Don’t look at Scotty with rose tinted spectacles because you are seeing a great character actor being honoured superbly by his son. Chris looks like his Dad and his voice is similar and he’s had a life time to imitate him. With all that going for him he could be the worst actor in the company and STILL be brilliant. Fortunately he’s terrific.

World Enough And Time is a good example of writing for the guest star. It’s a terrific episode, one which I thoroughly enjoyed, but it strayed away from the structure based on “the big three”. I understand what you are saying about playing to strengths but STC isn’t about that. It’s mission statement is to create a fourth season of TOS, and TOS was about Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

328. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 13, 2014

313. Toonloon – January 12, 2014
The only note of caution i would offer STC is not to write for the actors, write for the characters. I love Chris doohan but I felt Scotty was too front and centre, probably because it’s such a coup to have him. His late father James rarely, if ever, got as many good scenes.

Funny. I thought as I was watching Scotty in this episode I was happy to see his role stregthened in this episode. I thought it was a very wise choice. Not because Chris Doohan seems to effortlessly channel his father’s presence onscreen (Thanks Mr. Doohan, it almost brings a tear every thime I see you on screen) but especially after we learned of Lt. Carolyn Palamas eventual sad fate.

And Yes, Michael Forrester gave a perfect reaction when he also learned what happenend to her.

I think some here are not giving most of these new productions a fair shake.
Especially when it comes to presenting the true spirit of Star Trek.

These fan-made episodes may lack some of the refinements of the big budget movies, but it seems the Hollywood big picture Treks always have also missed the target when it comes to recreating the magic found in some of the best original episodes.

These new Trek certainly capture some of that magic. And I eagerly await each new episode.

329. Blue Thunder - January 13, 2014

@323 – James, I understand where you are coming from in terms of establishing the production and the artistic quality of it. But, for what it is worth, I really enjoyed the pilot episode and everything about it.

Right down to the storyline, the guest stars(ST veterans Eddie Paskey, John Winston, and the very beautiful and lovely Andrea Ajemian), and everything else.

Despite the obstacles described, Come What May is still a very noble and a really cool start to NV-P2.

In a few words – I LIKE IT!

330. Dom - January 13, 2014

327. Toonloon: ‘World Enough And Time is a good example of writing for the guest star. It’s a terrific episode, one which I thoroughly enjoyed, but it strayed away from the structure based on “the big three”. I understand what you are saying about playing to strengths but STC isn’t about that. It’s mission statement is to create a fourth season of TOS, and TOS was about Kirk, Spock and McCoy.’

Of course, we’re assuming in the parallel universe that Star Trek seasons four and and beyond happened that all the actors remained on the show. There’s no reason to think that, by season six, say, Leonard Nimoy might have called it a day and moved over to Mission: Impossible or William Shatner landed the lead in something like Silent Running and jumped ship (excuse the pun and the idea of William Shatner in Silent Running!).

The reason the cast was as consistent as it was was perhaps tied into Trek’s lower ratings. Also, as it is, George Takei only turned up in half the episodes of those three seasons because he was away shooting a film during season two.

As the show hit the hypothetical 1970 season onwards, the 1960s design aesthetic would have changed. Sets would have been overhauled due to wear and tear, uniforms would have been updated, hairstyles would have changed. The Star Trek of 1972 would have been a different animal, probably with some different castmembers and characters, different behind-the-scenes crew, different writers. The movies made the Big Three plus backup crew image sacrosanct.

The nature of Star Trek Continues and Star Trek: Phase II is that they can play a little fast and loose with things. It’s never been stated in official canon that all the characters saw out the entire five year mission. Maybe McCoy will move on in ST:C and Scotty assume his place in the Big Three. I’ll keep an eye on both shows and see how they progress…

Imagine what a 1972 episode written by Dan O’Bannon might have been like… Alien on the Enterprise! ;)

331. Michael Hall - January 13, 2014

“World Enough And Time is a good example of writing for the guest star. It’s a terrific episode, one which I thoroughly enjoyed, but it strayed away from the structure based on “the big three”. I understand what you are saying about playing to strengths but STC isn’t about that. It’s mission statement is to create a fourth season of TOS, and TOS was about Kirk, Spock and McCoy.”

Well, in all truth WEAT strays from that “fourth season mission statement” in other significant ways, as well. For example, I doubt very much that the writers and producers working in 1970 would have a clue what the movie-era uniforms, much less the U.S.S. Excelsior, would look like.

But in the end, why should such strictures get in the way of telling a great story? I agree that traditionally TOS was primarily centered on the Big Three–but does that mean every story set during the fourth and fifth year of the original mission has to be? Fans are quick to bitch about Trek’s inevitable slide towards staleness and formula; the best way to safeguard against that is to shake the format up from time to time. Which “World Enough and Time” managed to do, while still being true to what made TOS so special.

332. Cygnus-X1 - January 13, 2014

327. Toonloon – January 13, 2014

—@320 Cygnus. Sorry mate but I disagree with you on the absence of talent in the main characters. Vic as Kirk and the other gentleman as Spock are just as good. Don’t look at Scotty with rose tinted spectacles because you are seeing a great character actor being honoured superbly by his son. Chris looks like his Dad and his voice is similar and he’s had a life time to imitate him. With all that going for him he could be the worst actor in the company and STILL be brilliant. Fortunately he’s terrific.—

Everyone has their own taste, of course. But mine is that I enjoyed Chris Doohan’s performance enough to want to see more of him and appreciate what I did see of him. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think that the actors who play Spock and Bones shouldn’t also be given a chance to shine. But, if Continues took your advice, we wouldn’t have gotten those couple of nice scenes between Kirk and Scotty, and I really enjoyed those scenes! So, I don’t see the sense in robbing us of something good just for the sake of rigidly adhering to the average screen-time ratios of the characters in TOS. Scotty was featured prominently enough in TOS that having *a bit* more of him, as in “Pilgrim of Eternity,” did not feel un-TOS. At least, not to me.

333. Dr. What - January 13, 2014

323. Are you, Mr Cawley, sir, saying that In Harm’s Way sucked?

334. Toonloon - January 13, 2014

” if Continues took your advice, we wouldn’t have gotten those couple of nice scenes between Kirk and Scotty”

That’s not necessarily true.

It’s clear to me you don’t understand writing for television or don’t care. That’ fine that’s your prerogative. I’m pleased you enjoyed PoE as much as I. But please don’t imply that some how I must be against Mr Doohan by making a cautionary note against letting the focus drift away from the triumvirate. I’m sure Chris has read your comments by now so there’s no need to make me look like I’m unappreciative of his talents just by mentioning that I hope STC doesn’t forget who it’s main characters are.

335. Cygnus-X1 - January 13, 2014

334. Toonloon – January 13, 2014

You’ve got me wrong. I’m not trying to do that.

And I don’t understand what you mean when you say that I don’t understand writing for TV. If there’s a finite amount of time in the episode, and you don’t like the portion of that time occupied by Scotty, then what? If Scotty is featured too prominently, then to feature him less means cutting his screen time, scenes and/or the importance of his character to the events in the episode, right? If I’m wrong about this and missing an important point about writing for TV, I would appreciate your disabusing me of whatever misconception I have.

336. pattyw - January 13, 2014

333 he said Come What May sucked.

337. Toonloon - January 14, 2014

Come What May was a bold, fascinating attempt to make an episode of TOS. I remember being gobsmacked, for all it’s failings. Don’t be too hard on yourselves with that one. Two TOS crews and time travel – incredibly bold. You shouldn’t be disappointed that it didn’t come out as well as you wanted, you should be thrilled that it came out at all(!)

338. I Am Roger Corby! - January 14, 2014

Cawley & Co do another commendable job with Kitumba. Technical proficiency is a given for them and this episode does not disappoint.

It would be a good candidate for another pass through the editor’s blade. If they were to remove 10 minutes of the looser dialog — you know, the throw away lines and gratuitous bickering, PC asides and such — it would make a very tight, very crisp episode.

Still, all in all, a lot of fun. The guy playing the boy emperor did a surprisingly good job, especially when the character “rises to the occasion” at the climax.

Good work!

339. MJ - January 14, 2014

@316

“Pilgrim of Eternity suffered from bad acting and a poor story-line. And I found it a bit difficult to watch and elderly Michael Forrest try to capture back the magic of his original role of nearly 40 years ago. Forrest was just to old and frail to make it work, and it pains me to say this. It’s good that it got STC going, but it’s a really lame fan episode.”

You nailed it. I That episode just doesn’t work for me either. One of the weaker fan productions to date.

@317

“And I’ll say it here whether people like it or not, Vic is a much better Kirk than James. James always has the forced aggression and smart-ass grin that I can never get beyond when watching him. Vic is less forced and more believable.”

Yea, Cawley is a great fan producer and fan series creator, but by no means should he be playing Kirk. His performance is distracting. But as the lead of the production, I salute his efforts in making this fan series a reality

@322

“Everyone has their own taste, of course. But mine is that I enjoyed Chris Doohan’s performance enough to want to see more of him and appreciate what I did see of him. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think that the actors who play Spock and Bones shouldn’t also be given a chance to shine. But, if Continues took your advice, we wouldn’t have gotten those couple of nice scenes between Kirk and Scotty, and I really enjoyed those scenes!”

Agreed — thank goodness that STC is not taking Toonloon’s advice. Phew! :-)

@ James Cawley

“It is a MIRACLE that any fan film production gets made whether mine or someone else’s. Fans should marvel at the dedication and perseverance of the fellow fans and just be proud that someone like themselves actually gave it a go!”

I agree completely, James. While I have been critical of times of some of the fan productions, I have shown my continued support financially to your productions, and will continue to do so. I’d like to remind everyone here, whether you like to praise, whine or bitch about these productions, that that rely on our contributions — so, keep giving please, everyone. (this does not mean that you should be donating to crap like the Rengades stuff though — use you bullshit filter when contributing to any of these efforts).

340. MJ - January 14, 2014

Huh? That’s like saying that I got this great idea for a Van Gogh-level quality impressionistic painting in my mind, but please excuse the result of this crappy looking painting, because I really just can’t paint very well.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
337. Toonloon – January 14, 2014
Come What May was a bold, fascinating attempt to make an episode of TOS. I remember being gobsmacked, for all it’s failings. Don’t be too hard on yourselves with that one. Two TOS crews and time travel – incredibly bold. You shouldn’t be disappointed that it didn’t come out as well as you wanted, you should be thrilled that it came out at all(!)

341. Michael Hall - January 14, 2014

337. Toonloon – January 14, 2014

“Come What May was a bold, fascinating attempt to make an episode of TOS. I remember being gobsmacked, for all it’s failings. Don’t be too hard on yourselves with that one. Two TOS crews and time travel – incredibly bold. You shouldn’t be disappointed that it didn’t come out as well as you wanted, you should be thrilled that it came out at all(!)”

As Patty W notes above you’re actually thinking of “In Harm’s Way,” which was the first New Voyages show filmed after “Come What May.” An overly-ambitious time travel saga that’s burdened by the usual acting issues, fan-service guest star cameos (in this case Barbra Luna and William Windom), and CGI that was impressive for its time but looks pretty cheesy by today’s standards, it nevertheless is light-years better than “Come What May” and still has some nice aspects to it (including a very convincing redress of the Enterprise bridge set into its “Cage”-era configuration).

I get the impression that Mr. Cawley and the Phase 2 crew make no apologies for “In Harm’s Way”–at worst, it was a necessary part of the learning curve which gave us the much better episodes that followed–but would just as soon forget that “Come What May” ever happened. Absolutely no disrespect intended to James Cawley, who for all the flack he’s taken over the years grew very nicely into the role of Kirk, IMO–but if you’ve haven’t seen that lacquered Elvis pompadour strutting around the Enterprise bridge in “Come What May,” you haven’t lived. :-)

342. jerr - January 14, 2014

@271 “Vic did the makeup on me that time, and try as he might, he does not have the level of experience that pro makeup man John Paladin has, who did the Klingon makeup on DS9, or so I’m told.”

That makes sense now. I was wounding why you looked sunburned in that scene.

@339 “I’d like to remind everyone here, whether you like to praise, whine or bitch about these productions, that that rely on our contributions — so, keep giving please, everyone”

good point!

343. McCoy's#3fan - January 14, 2014

What a treat! thank you for all your hard work, Phase 2 cast and crew! I enjoy the ensemble feel of the Phase 2 episodes, and especially love John Kelley’s warmth, charm, and humor in portraying McCoy. A disappointment he won’t appear in Mindsifter. Feel fortunate to have charismatic actors (Karl in the films) carrying on the McCoy tradition…

“Fontana!….Fontana!!….Fontana!!!…” don’t remember which episode that was in, but can’t forget the scene…

344. James Cawley - January 14, 2014

John Kelley is McCoy in “Mind-Sifter”

345. wtriker1701 - January 14, 2014

@JC:
That’s very good to know!

346. Dr. What - January 14, 2014

@323 Sorry I got it wrong.

I watched CWM last night. Kinda weird, but liked the graphics of the Enterprise. It was a very cool effect when the E left a planet and POV changed from the planet orbit to the E’s view back to the planet receding.

I also thought you seemed pretty relaxed in the episode. Were you? (Do you remember.)

I appreciate the work you and the team have done.

Thank you. Thank you very much.
–sorry… had to say it. :-)

347. Who cares - January 14, 2014

So I just watched “In Harms Way” since I love time travel stories and someone mentioned that it was one. I liked it overall, they should probably have had “Admiral Kirk” in a fat suit to match Shatner’s girth at that time but otherwise not bad. I will admit I saw Pike’s accident being included in the story from the start but that is ok. It did remind me of a story from some older Trek comic books where the timeline was changed and Worf father of Mogh was the science officer aboard the Enterprise, and it also reminded me of an animated series episode where Spock was wiped from time and there was an Andorian as first officer (its the episode that Orci and co lifted lines from for Sarek’s talk with young Spock after the “incident” with the Vulcan bullies).

Those aren’t negative comparisons though (to me at least), overall I give In Harms Way a solid C+, its better than Spock’s Brain and the “Space Hippies” :).

348. Cygnus-X1 - January 14, 2014

Brain and brain! What is brain?!?

Spock’s Brain was better than Space Hippies, which was the absolute rock bottom.

349. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 14, 2014

I showed a older ex Trek fan Kitumba. He is famous for saying there has never been a decent trek movie.

He sat through Kitumba and remarked positive comments on several aspects of the production and followed along quite well throughout.

I told him about the captain’s fued and he remarked that it looked to him like this production was petty for listing him so far back in the credits. He also said it seemed like they added the final Disruptor blast as an insult.
It looked like Vic was still in the background (on the right) in that final shot of Cawley’s Kirk character.

So, I wonder. Was Malkthon really suppossed to die?

It seemed like a rash decision, whether it was intentional, or not.

350. Pony R. Horton - January 14, 2014

Malkthon was ALWAYS scripted to die.

I created the disruptor blast not as an insult, but as a fitting death to our main antagonist. He’s the MAIN ONE, he deserved a somewhat more spectacular end than his cronies. “A good death is its own reward.”

I based it on the look of blaster destruction seen when Lord Kruge shot his gunner in STAR TREK III: THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK, only with a more gory effect.

No matter what may or may NOT have gone on behind the scenes, as VFX Supervisor AND Klingon High Chancellor, I implore you NOT to read more into it than is there.

To quote a famous Earther of the past, “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”

351. K-7 - January 14, 2014

@MJ

“I’d like to remind everyone here, whether you like to praise, whine or bitch about these productions, that they rely on our contributions — so, keep giving please, everyone”

Here, here!!!

352. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 14, 2014

350. Pony R. Horton

I looked again. I agree! Great VFX

A minor tweak would show Kali’s (Michele Spect) horrified look onscreen behind his disolving body.

353. Pony R. Horton - January 14, 2014

352: Impossible, as Kali was the first one Kitumba killed before he and Malkthon had a bunch of dialogue. She dies at least a minute or so BEFORE he does.

354. Patty W - January 14, 2014

Malkthon’s death was scripted to show that the Kitumba is not as far advanced a Klingon as he would have us believe by his grand designs. After all his plans and grand talk – in the end he still impulsively turns around and just shoots his enemy anyway. (and he is the last of his crew to die…he was the only one the Kitumba was keeping around to teach a lesson to.)

355. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 15, 2014

353. Pony R. Horton

Well then there is something terribly wrong with that closing scene, as I can clearly see Kali (who I originally thought was Malkthon) off to the right in Kirk’s final closing shot there.

Hold on, I’ll have to watch it again to see for sure…

Ok.

I know its her as I can se her arm band jewelry. Because of the way this final scene was edited, I am beginning to think there is more to this Vic conspiracy. Especially after seeing what [almost] happened here…

http://www.depositagift.com/1995/MignognaWedding/GuestBook/registry

Seriously. Looks like Vic took the best parts of Phase II. Michelle.

Does anyone know if they actually tied the knot?
Despite my jealousy, they make for a cute happy looking couple.

356. Pony R. Horton - January 15, 2014

Ah, I see.

Yep.

Maybe Mark the editor should have tightened into the frame a bit to hide her!

Oh, well. Such bloopers are common in films. It was some ungodly hour when we shot that, and we often do 16-hour days. Eventually, the mind turns to mush, and with the disease of “Go Fever!” we sometimes shoot too fast.

I once asked Jonathon Frakes if he was aware of the big Kino light on a C-stand with an 85 Orange gel in a frame in front of it in the corridor, clearly visible, in a shot from STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT.

He was surprised, and likely not too happy with me for sounding less like a fellow film maker and more like a whiney fanboy. He never spotted it during the editing. Of course, FIRST CONTACT is one of my favorite TREK films, so I really don’t care about the issue at all.

But as far as Mr. Frakes is concerned, I could tell by his face he wanted to tell me to “Get a life!”

357. Michael Hall - January 15, 2014

“Malkthon’s death was scripted to show that the Kitumba is not as far advanced a Klingon as he would have us believe by his grand designs. After all his plans and grand talk – in the end he still impulsively turns around and just shoots his enemy anyway.”

I’m not so sure that comes across in the finished film. As it stands, all we see is the Kitumba’s stated intention to spare Malkthon so he can serve as a living example of dishonorable conduct (the worst sort of punishment for a Klingon, natch). Then, after killing all of his accomplices and letting Kirk know in no uncertain terms that this new era in Klingon politics will not be what he might have hoped for–a foregone conclusion, given what we know of the “history” of the Trek universe–he shoots Malkthon anyway, for no apparent reason.

I’m not typically a fan of underlining things in literature or film, but if the intent was to show that the Kitumba was, for all his cleverness, in the end still limited by his heritage (or even by his own immaturity), different choices on the part of the actor (who I thought did a good job overall), or even a follow-up discussion by the Enterprise crew, might have conveyed that idea more effectively.

358. Cygnus-X1 - January 15, 2014

354. Patty W – January 14, 2014

Malkthon’s death was scripted to show that the Kitumba is not as far advanced a Klingon as he would have us believe by his grand designs. After all his plans and grand talk – in the end he still impulsively turns around and just shoots his enemy anyway. (and he is the last of his crew to die…he was the only one the Kitumba was keeping around to teach a lesson to.)

This is how it played to me.

After all, Kitumba is still a Klingon. And we all know what Klingons are like. It also happened to be a prudent idea to kill Malkthon in terms of strategic thinking. By killing Malkthon, Kitumba shows us that he’s a strong leader and not a fool. Leaving the raging, power-hungry Malkthon alive would have been an open invitation to loads of trouble down the road. A human leader might risk all that trouble for the sake high-minded moral equanimity, but not a Klingon! Malkthon has got to be toast at the end of this story. That Kitumba hesitated in killing Malkthon shows more “progressive-mindedness,” if you will, from Kitumba than we should rightly expect.

359. Cygnus-X1 - January 15, 2014

Sorry, I meant …high-minded moral *equity*…

360. Pony R. Horton - January 15, 2014

If The Kitumba had NOT disposed of Malkthon, my first order as High Chancellor would have been to imprison Malkthon in a sealed room filled with tribbles for a few days, then set him on fire, alive.

Or, maybe invite the nearest martial arts class to use him for a bat’leth training dummy.

361. Michael Hall - January 15, 2014

360. Pony R. Horton – January 15, 2014

“If The Kitumba had NOT disposed of Malkthon, my first order as High Chancellor would have been to imprison Malkthon in a sealed room filled with tribbles for a few days, then set him on fire, alive.”

You’re a hard case, Horton.

362. Pony R. Horton - January 15, 2014

Horton was my father. I’m a Pony.

Hard case? Nahhh. Just Klingon!

363. MJ - January 15, 2014

Sheeh, drop this already, dude. Enough!!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
355. TrekMadeMeWonder – January 15, 2014
353. Pony R. Horton

Well then there is something terribly wrong with that closing scene, as I can clearly see Kali (who I originally thought was Malkthon) off to the right in Kirk’s final closing shot there.

Hold on, I’ll have to watch it again to see for sure…

Ok.

I know its her as I can se her arm band jewelry. Because of the way this final scene was edited, I am beginning to think there is more to this Vic conspiracy. Especially after seeing what [almost] happened here…

http://www.depositagift.com/1995/MignognaWedding/GuestBook/registry

Seriously. Looks like Vic took the best parts of Phase II. Michelle.

Does anyone know if they actually tied the knot?
Despite my jealousy, they make for a cute happy looking couple.

364. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 15, 2014

363. MJ

MJ. Too late.

I had to ask. For Michelle’s sake.

365. anothercott - January 15, 2014

No one has mentioned the Christopher Lloyd cameo at 39:04? (Or an incredible impersonation!)

I didn’t care for Michele Specht in Pilgrim of Eternity, but I thought she was terrific here.

366. Patty W - January 15, 2014

The Chris Lloyd cameo is an incredible impersonation by John Paladin, none other than the makeup pro that did all the non-augment Klingon makeup (and arranged for the foreheads to be donated). He frequents the con circuits as a guest so you can tell him yourself!

355- Michele had been Vic’s girlfriend for many, many years before she came to our sets. It’s the only reason we even considered her for the role – or else we wouldn’t have known she even existed. She was up for a part in “The Protracted Man” as well, but would have been required on set for different days than Vic and didn’t want to do that. Yes, they did get married…according to all their public pages etc.

367. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 15, 2014

Thank you, Patty!

She has an awesome presence onscreen. I thought she did very well in her roles.

Thanks for the update. I wish them both the best.

368. Blue Thunder - January 15, 2014

@348 – Spock’s Brain better than The Way To Eden?!

Are you for real?

Given a choice, I’ll watch The Way To Eden over that dud of an episode(even though it has beautiful women in it), any day of the week.

Obviously Lee Cronin and Fred Freiberger were smoking something when they wrote Spock’s Brain.

369. MJ - January 15, 2014

I actually really like The Way to Eden as well. It’s a misunderstood episdoe. It’s not in my top list, but neither do I consider it in my bottom list.

370. Tony Todd's Tears - January 15, 2014

I don’t get all the nitpicking. These episodes are nothing less than a small miracle to produce. In fact, doing any kind of film work is like that. Especially when very little money is involved.

Great job guys! Keep up the good work. As long as you make Star Trek, I will watch it.

371. Blue Thunder - January 15, 2014

I’ll say this much. It was a social commentary on the late Sixties counterculture. An allegory that was heavy-handed, but still watchable.

The Way To Eden is definately a classic example of a generation gap where the newer generation wants to learn but fails to explain itself to the older generation, and the older generation being afraid of change.

372. Michael Hall - January 15, 2014

“She was up for a part in “The Protracted Man” as well, but would have been required on set for different days than Vic and didn’t want to do that. “

Wasn’t she originally supposed to play Number One in “Origins”? That was certainly my impression at the time, and I’ll admit to being rather, um, disappointed at not getting to meet her.

373. MJ - January 15, 2014

@370

Yea, well said.

374. jb42682 - January 15, 2014

Just watched it and I could say a lot of negative things about the production but I am not. At it’s core it’s Star Trek and I’ll take low budget real trek over big budget “Pop Trek” any day. Great job guys!

P.S. The CG Is freaking amazing I was in trekie heaven.

375. Cygnus-X1 - January 15, 2014

I quite enjoyed Michele Specht in Pilgrim.

376. Cygnus-X1 - January 15, 2014

368. Blue Thunder – January 15, 2014

@348 – Spock’s Brain better than The Way To Eden?!

Are you for real?

Of all the issues to become indignant over…arguing which of those two lemons is the worst. Are you for real? ;-)

There’s obviously no accounting for taste, but I will briefly make a case.

At least Spock’s Brain played like a Star Trek episode set in an otherworldly future. One might find its premise simplistic and even ridiculous, but there’s no denying it’s in the tradition of science fiction.

The Way to Eden was so transparent as a social commentary set in 1968 as to be laughable. And it wasn’t even a thought-provoking social commentary. I mean, who doesn’t witness the rebellious behavior of petulant youth on a daily basis? Might as well make an episode about how some people—like maybe a woman that you live with— for some inexplicable reason, so often feel compelled to put the toilet paper roll in the holder backwards. (It’s not supposed to slide along the wall, and you’re not suppose to have to reach UNDERNEATH the roll and have to struggle each and every time you go to get some toilet paper.) That episode would actually be more interesting, because it’s something of a mystery.

But, even more than that, The Way to Eden was ANNOYING. The space hippies were ANNOYING. Their songs were ANNOYING. Their “herbert, herbert” chant was EXTREMELY ANNOYING. It’s not even that The Way to Eden was a joke, it’s that it was a BAD joke.

Also that chick in Spock’s Brain was hot.

377. Cygnus-X1 - January 16, 2014

P.S. Isn’t life already difficult and challenging enough without having to wrestle and negotiate toilet paper from both the bathroom wall and the roll, itself? Half the time the papers tears off prematurely, because you have to pull on it at angle (because the wall is in the way), and then you’ve got a piece that’s too small. It’s all so senseless! Stop the insanity!

378. Daniel - January 16, 2014

Agreed that “Spock’s Brain” is superior to “The Way to Eden.” But in the first ever poll I saw of the worst five TOS episodes, a poll taken around 1975, they both made the list. Also on that list was “And the Children Shall Lead” and I forget the other two.

379. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 16, 2014

I really think you Phase II guys and Vic and company would all bury the hatchets somehow. I think this Mitumba was awesome and I’d love to see more of this.

I’d like to bring up my idea of a new Star Trek spin-off, again here.

Star Trek Reality

Three teams compete in a bid for the best 30 minute Star Trek episode.
There could be a limited budget for off-world sets and props, but some ship sets are pre-built and each team must come up with the best acting and storylines. Filming and special effects could also be made by similar competing teams.

Perhaps one team could be Klingon, another Romulan, and of course a Federation.

The winning team would play an important role in a future Star Trek movie!

380. Michael Hall - January 16, 2014

“Agreed that “Spock’s Brain” is superior to “The Way to Eden.”

Well, permit me to disagree. Obviously neither show will make anyone’s Top 10 list, or even Top 50. But in making Spock at least somewhat sympathetic towards the hippies’ goals and their critique of Federation culture, and in its examination of the way the power dynamics within such a group can lead to tragedy, “Eden” is probably a little more nuanced in retrospect than I was willing to give it credit for. I’ll also take issue with #376 regarding the music–I thought the jam session with Spock in the recreation room was actually pretty cool.

“Spock’s Brain,” by contrast, is a complete idiot-fest, undoubtedly the worst piece of writing Gene Coon ever did for Trek. A consummate craftsman, it’s no wonder he took his name off of it.

381. Cygnus-X1 - January 16, 2014

380. Michael Hall – January 16, 2014

—“Spock’s Brain,” by contrast, is a complete idiot-fest, undoubtedly the worst piece of writing Gene Coon ever did for Trek. A consummate craftsman, it’s no wonder he took his name off of it.—

Would you elaborate on this a bit? I’ve never quite understood the widespread animosity toward this episode. Obviously it’s not one of the better TOS episodes, but what specifically do you find so idiotic about it?

382. pattyw - January 16, 2014

Michael that is what I said…Michelle was up for the part of Number one in the protracted man but wasn’t willing to work on days Vic was gone to a convention.

“Spock’s..Brain” had a far more important message than way to Eden. If you rely on machines your brain will turn to mush. Poorly executed but we’re seeing the results of that now.

383. Blue Thunder - January 16, 2014

Somehow, I can’t visualize Michele dyeing her hair in a raven color in order to play Number One. Frankly, given her unprofessional attitudes described above, it’s probably for the best that she didn’t play Christopher Pike’s first officer. She would not have been that convincing.

The Way to Eden also had a serious message regarding the danger of cult followings, let alone cult suicides. What happened to Dr. Sevrin(obviously one of Vic’s role-models, given his reputation)and, to some extent, Adam, was a symbol of such dangers and their ill-fated conclusions.

Jim Jones and the Guyana tragedy being an example of that. Including those violent tragedies concerning David Koresh and the Branch-Davidians(?), as well as Marshall Applewhite and his followers.

Sevrin’s followers were just about brainwashed, and what they found on Eden was a major slap in the face that really sobered them up. Tongo Rad, Irina Galliluin, Mavig, and the other woman got very lucky. It’s just a shame that they learned the hard way and got hurt in the process.

384. Michael Hall - January 16, 2014

382. pattyw – January 16, 2014

“Michael that is what I said…Michelle was up for the part of Number one in the protracted man but wasn’t willing to work on days Vic was gone to a convention.”

Sorry; guess I missed that. FWIW I thought the professional actress who eventually got the role was a better fit for Number One anyway. It’s a real shame that none of that footage is usable; it would be nice if you could get her back (along that guy who played Finnegan, who was just an amazing stand-in for Bruce Mars) when you reshoot the episode.

“Spock’s..Brain” had a far more important message than way to Eden. If you rely on machines your brain will turn to mush. Poorly executed but we’re seeing the results of that now.”

Well, I’m not so sure I agree on either count. In particular, there are a number of reasons minds may be turning to mush these days, and in my cynical moments I think it’s quite deliberate, our wonderful “job-creating” overlords quite happy to deal with a labor force that’s ill-educated and understandably cowed at the thought of being unemployed themselves.

May I say, Ms. Wright, that I also think you’re a very capable prose stylist. You had showed me your short story featuring Chekov and McCoy on the set of “Origins,” and one of my regrets is that I didn’t have the opportunity to finish it. :-(

385. Daniel - January 16, 2014

380. FYI. Coon didn’t take his name off of “Spock’s Brain.” He couldn’t use his name on Star Trek at that point since he was under contract elsewhere.

386. Patty W - January 16, 2014

Michael, when I was a kid I knew dozens of phone numbers and memorized the multiplication tables. Now kids enter 1st grade with a calculator, are no longer taught cursive and….my husband’s work number? “2″. My best friends number? “5″ James Cawley’s number? “3″.

And thank you for the kind words! I’m not sure if you are referring to the Chekov/McCoy meeting story or the award winning “Joanna” story that is also a Chekov/McCoy story. That one is here…https://www.fanfiction.net/s/2975343/1/Simple-Dreams You can find my others there too. (the Chekov/McCoy series goes “The Contract” “Renegotations” and then “Simple Dreams” but you don’t have to read them in order)

387. Dave H - January 17, 2014

The Way to Eden is vastly superior to Spock’s Brain. The Way to Eden is at least somewhat decent Trek, while Spock’s brain is just plain moronic.

388. Dave H - January 17, 2014

@382

““Spock’s..Brain” had a far more important message than way to Eden. If you rely on machines your brain will turn to mush. Poorly executed but we’re seeing the results of that now.”

No, I didn’t really get that message from watching Spock’s brain. Sorry.

389. Dave H - January 17, 2014

“Michael, when I was a kid I knew dozens of phone numbers and memorized the multiplication tables. Now kids enter 1st grade with a calculator, are no longer taught cursive and….my husband’s work number?”

This is such a ridiculous misconception of what intelligence is really all about. You’ve just got the “grumpy old man” syndrome and don’t really care enough to take the time to understand kids today.

There always was and always will be the bell curve in kids intelligence, and the smart ones today are just as smart as the ones from yesteryear, albeit their intelligence is being applied differently from things like the quaint old habit of memorizing tables…although, the percentage of kids with photographic memories worldwide is actually on the rise.

390. Cygnus-X1 - January 17, 2014

387. Dave H – January 17, 2014

—The Way to Eden is vastly superior to Spock’s Brain. The Way to Eden is at least somewhat decent Trek, while Spock’s brain is just plain moronic.—

Again, care to elaborate? I understand generally why people don’t care for that episode, but it seems to be widely regarded as the exemplar of bad TOS Trek.

Maybe because it was the first episode to air in the ill-fated Season 3, it’s come to be known as the point at which TOS jumped the shark? I really don’t know if that’s the reason, but if it is, it would be bad reasoning as there were still some good episodes littered about in Season 3. Just calling it idiotic or moronic or a doodiehead doesn’t really shed any light on why people find that episode, in particular, so distasteful or even the worst of TOS.

391. Captain Presley - January 17, 2014

@341but if you’ve haven’t seen that lacquered Elvis pompadour strutting around the Enterprise bridge in “Come What May,” you haven’t lived. :-)

I prefer to think of Come what may as the one where they cast Elvis fresh off his Vegas show to play kirk when shatner wanted a pay rise

392. Garak's Pride - January 17, 2014

The Way to Eden is actually one of my favorite Star Trek episodes. I like the message about the dangers of a blind faith in utopia. Look at Jonestown, and look at cults like the Moonies — that is exactly the warning that The Way to Eden was talking about. I also liked the music/songs, and really enjoyed the way Spock was able to try to understand the kids, when others could not.

It’s in my top five of Season 3 episodes.

393. Michael Hall - January 17, 2014

“Again, care to elaborate?”

It’s an insipid idea (race of alien babes appropriates contents of Vulcan’s cranium, since it’s apparently ever so much more difficult to scour the universe for alien brains than it is to read the manual for your sewage treatment plant), horribly done (McCoy’s brain-boost fizzles out halfway through the operation, but he still manages). Not much more to say about it beyond that.

It does have one good line, though: “Call Chekov and have him send me down my stomach.”

(Yeah, this POS was what America got as the first episode of the third season. If I’d been one of those fans who’d invested so much time and energy in getting the show renewed, I’d have wept.)

394. Michael Hall - January 17, 2014

Sorry, meant ever so much easier to scour the universe for brains. Apparently mine is also MIA today.

395. Cygnus-X1 - January 17, 2014

393. Michael Hall – January 17, 2014

And what about that remote control that Bones whips up. He just pushes a button and Spock walks right where he’s supposed to, with clockwork ticking all the while to let us know that there’s technology at work. But still, I enjoy “Spock’s Brain” for its campiness. For some reason, that episode was in regular rotation during syndication, while much better episodes from Season 3, like “The Enterprise Incident,” where never shown.

396. Red Shirt Diaries - January 17, 2014

Re: Cygnus X-1

You hit on the issue I have with Spock’s Brain. Spock’s Brain is the “Plan 9 from Outer Space” of Star Trek. It’s so bad that it is funny. And I don’t think that is a good thing, since I don’t consider Star Trek a “B” production.

The Way to Eden, on the other had, while not a great Trek episode, at least presents legitimate Trek themes and societal contrasts, and is straight up sf entertainment, unlike Spock’s Brain, which is entertaining only because of how stupid it is.

397. Michael Hall - January 17, 2014

Maybe Coon’s idea was for “Spock’s Brain” to be a comedy. That was his original intent for “Spectre of the Gun,” but the third season producer didn’t believe that Trek was supposed to be funny so the script got rewritten. Even so, I still consider “Spectre,” unlike “Spock’s Brain,” to be at least fun to watch and a legitimate guilty pleasure.

398. DiscoSpock - January 17, 2014

Guys, I prefer The Way to Eden over Spock’s Brain as well. Neither are great, but at least Eden had some themes worth thinking about. Plus, I like the corny singing.

399. Cygnus-X1 - January 17, 2014

Well, you guys have convinced me to give The Way to Eden another chance.

I can’t guarantee that I’ll make it all the way through, given how badly I’ve reacted to it in the past, but I will try to see in it what people have expressed appreciation for here.

400. Blue Thunder - January 17, 2014

Think of it like this. The Way To Eden was a social commentary on the counter culture. Let alone a social allegory on the growing chasm between the conservative elders and the liberal youth. And as one pointed out, the dangers of cult-followings.

Star Trek has always addressed the socio-political issues of the times(be it the 60′s, the 70′s, the 80′s, and the 90′s). Like any well-written science fiction, it has tackled the controversy of such issues through the creative tracking of the genre.

Maybe some don’t care for the way in the episode was depicted, but some do get the message that was being conveyed.

However you slice it, The Way To Eden is more watchable than the banality and idiocy that was presented in Spock’s Brain.

The only viewable thing about Spock’s Brain was the women.

401. MJ - January 17, 2014

@400. Yea, and The Way to Eden presents both sides of the arguments. It shows that the establishment older folks need to do a better job listening and trying to understand the younger generation, and it also shows the dangers of the younger generation taking their counterculture too far by following cult leaders and not considering some of the wisdom of the older generation.

402. Daniel - January 18, 2014

I prefer “Spock’s Brain” for the science. Watching it in 1972 as a 9 year old I learned a lot of things:

1. about ion drive (which we now know is far easier than warp drive
2. humans didn’t know how to transplant a human brain from one body to another.
3. Starfleet uniforms had temperature control devices all this time and we didn’t know it. Must have been an upgrade suggested after Sulu and others nearly from during “The Naked Time.”

403. Pony R. Horton - January 18, 2014

So, how ’bout that Kitumba, huh?

It doesn’t take Spock’s brain to realized there’s no way to Eden from Qo’Nos!

404. K-7 - January 18, 2014

Here’s an old Klingon camp song that I wanted to share with all of you:

Kitumba, my lord, Kitumba!
Kitumba, my lord, Kitumba!
Kitumba, my lord, Kitumba.
O Lord, Kitumba

Someone’s crying, Lord, Kitumba!
Someone’s crying, Lord, Kitumba!
Someone’s crying, Lord, Kitumba!
O Lord, Kitumba

Someone’s singing, Lord, Kitumba!
Someone’s singing, Lord, Kitumba!
Someone’s singing, Lord, Kitumba!
O Lord, Kitumba

Someone’s praying, Lord, Kitumba!
Someone’s praying, Lord, Kitumba!
Someone’s praying, Lord, Kitumba!
O Lord, Kitumba

405. Jack - January 18, 2014

I really wish all these Kirks would stop trying to do Shatner. Kirk’s crazy mannerisms and weird inflections were Shatner’s. He brought them ti every role. it makes the whole thing feel like a bad SNL sketch. Be the character without doing a Shatner impression.

If the new Star Trek movies had done this — it would have been disastrous. As it is, Yelchin’s Chekov narrowly escapes being a complete parody. Urban got the characters curmudgeonliness right in the first one — without McCoy’s compassion and professionalism — but, still, he avoided being a caricature. In the second one, less so.

406. Cygnus-X1 - January 18, 2014

I watched “The Way to Eden” again.

My main issue with this episode is how thinly veiled its premise is.

You could say that it’s not veiled at all: Space hippies drop out of Space Berkeley, become space seduced by Space Charles Manson whose promises turn out deadly, like the real Charles Manson’s.

Contrast the blatant, ham-handed indictment of 1960s counterculture in “The Way to Eden” with the more subtle and intelligent indictment of racism and bigotry in “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield.”

In “Eden,” we’re basically told in no uncertain terms what the theme is, at least in part, within the first few minutes of the episode. The space hippies, being antagonistic to Kirk and crew, are obviously the ones under indictment. The rest is just details.

In “Battlefield,” the moral of the story is held until the very end of the story, “But, you’re both the same!” implores Kirk, who, like most of the audience, couldn’t tell the difference between the two half-black, half-white aliens.

The fundamental attribute of Star Trek that made it so effective at examining contemporary themes was its otherworldly setting, which served to distract the audience, at least somewhat, from the similarities to real-life issues in the issues faced by the characters in the stories. “The Way to Eden” throws that subtlety of analogy right out the window.

My other complaints are more on the order of personal taste. The songs are so1960s, and cheesy 1960s at that, as to seem ridiculous being sung aboard the Enterprise in the 23rd Century. The space hippie dialogue contains ridiculous variations on 1960s hippie slang—”stiff” instead of “uptight,” “you reach” instead of “you dig” and so forth. They didn’t even bother to change, “brother,” which remained “brother” by the space hippies. And I find the performance of the actor who played the lead space hippie follower, “Adam,” annoying. He’d go on to usually played bad guys, or unfortunate buffoons after his role in “Eden.”

And they don’t even have the space hippies learn a lesson at the end of the story. The leader dies, as does Adam, and the rest of the brats are rescued by Kirk and crew. In the end, it’s all just a finger-wagging at the hippies in the audience.

407. MJ - January 18, 2014

@405.

Agreed. That’s why Cawely fails miserably at Kirk, and why Vic’s performance is so much better.

408. Patty W - January 18, 2014

389 David H…I wasn’t even speaking about intelligence so your comment is rather off the point.

405 406….wha….? Vic completely impersonates Shatner while James made Kirk his own – only doing “Shatner” for one line each episode. (A line carefully chosen, by the way). James is a better actor all around, IMO. Even Vic’s voice acting has a limited range.

409. Cygnus-X1 - January 18, 2014

408. Patty W – January 18, 2014

Vic completely impersonates Shatner while James made Kirk his own…

I’d more or less agree with this assessment.

Regardless of who you like better, you have to admit that Vic is doing a Shatner impersonation, to some degree, whereas James isn’t going for that effect.

410. Michael Hall - January 18, 2014

“In “Eden,” we’re basically told in no uncertain terms what the theme is, at least in part, within the first few minutes of the episode. The space hippies, being antagonistic to Kirk and crew, are obviously the ones under indictment. The rest is just details.”

I don’t see it that way at all myself, in retrospect. In fact, by making Spock–always the moral center of the show, at least as much as Kirk–somewhat sympathetic to the hippies’ cause, if not their methods, I consider “Eden” to be more balanced as an examination of the counterculture than you’re giving it credit for. Hell, even Kirk comes around to wryly defending them, and by extension his own youthful excesses, to Scotty (who might’ve considered his own misadventures before criticizing anyone else, the middle-aged hypocrite).

Where the episode errs most grievously IMO is in not giving the hippies an objective that would truly be worthy of consideration by the Enterprise crew. The real-life hippies in ’68, for all their faults, were mobilizing against a war that was killing hundreds of U.S. soldiers and Vietnamese civilians every week. The space hippies just want a planet where they can get buzzed, play some tunes, “pick some fruit and throw away the rind.” Not much of a goal or philosophy to hang your hat on, though it would have been a nice bit of continuity if someone had just suggested that they colonize Omicron Ceti III–a planet from an episode that treated similarly-themed material with infinitely greater depth and sophistication. Still, I’ll take “Eden” any day over “Let that be Your Last Battlefield,” which has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

“Vic completely impersonates Shatner while James made Kirk his own – only doing “Shatner” for one line each episode.”

In all fairness, isn’t it a little early to be making that assessment? I came to very much appreciate James’ take on the role, but his performances as Kirk from “To Serve All My Days” onwards were a huge leap forward from “Come What May,” where in truth his hair carried most of the acting load and probably should have gotten its own separate billing. So far Vic Mignogna has only had one at-bat as Kirk, and I thought he did a pretty credible job, Shatner-impersonation or no. Only time will tell if he can grow into the role as Cawley did.

411. Blue Thunder - January 18, 2014

@403 – This be true.

@407 – Vic couldn’t act his way out of a paper bag if he tried hard enough. If anything, Vic’s acting talents are equivalent to that of rotten ham and the passing of methane gas from too much fiber consumption. James did a better job.

@410 – Actually, ‘Let That Be Your Last Battlefield’ had some very strong themes to its storyline. In many ways, it was a social commentary on race relations and the socio-political issues behind such relations. It even tackled the complexities of such social problems that were still explosive at the time. The aftermaths of both the 1965 Civil Rights Movement and the assassination of Dr. Martin Luthur King, Jr, are examples of such social upheaval and the fallouts thereafter.

While the episode may have had the subtlety of a sledgehammer, it showed the opposing viewpoints of racial equality and relations. The ‘black and white’ element. This was an episode that you couldn’t look at through rose-tinted glasses. It showed, in no uncertain terms, the consequences initiated by such persecution, cruel and inhumane at the hands of those who are afraid of change. LTBYLB, used themes and images(the footage that represented Cheron burning in the aftermath of its racial wars)that spoke to the racial intolerance and violence that plagued modern-day American society.

Its grim portrayal of a world devastated by the scourge of intolerance and paranoia is one that cannot be ignored. While some pundits may deride the episode, a number of the sobering themes found in it still ring true today. Man’s ability to inflict pain and suffering on his neighbor continues to be demonstrated, whether it be in Los Angeles in 1992, the former Yugoslavia for the bulk of the Nineties, Chechnya, Iraq and other war-torn hot spots. Like the hellish nightmare presented in Lee Cronin’s script, the planet of man is a world where the ideals of the few are often silenced by the madness of many.

412. DiscoSpock - January 18, 2014

@409 “Regardless of who you like better, you have to admit that Vic is doing a Shatner impersonation, to some degree, whereas James isn’t going for that effect.”

I think it’s completely the opposite. I found James Cawley’s Kirk to be extremely annoying, with the fake anger the smart-ass grins, not to mention he couldn’t even take the time to get a little hair coloring done. He tries way too hard to impersonate Shatner-Kirk. It’s laughable and distracting.

Vic may be a pompous ass in the real world, but in regards to fan productions, his Kirk is vastly superior to that of James’s. And it’s not even close.

413. DiscoSpock - January 18, 2014

@406

We were comparing The Way to Eden to Spock’s Brain, not comparing The Way to Eden to Let That be Your Last Battlefield. Of course Battlefield wins that comparison…duh! But again, Spock’s Brain was the comparison???

This it like if we were comparing McDonalds to Buger King, and then you jumped in and all of a sudden said that McDonalds was not as good at Ruth’s Chris…which is true, but is completely faulty logic since it has nothing to do with the comparison between McDonalds and Burger King.

You really need to rethink how you advance your arguments here, my friend.

414. Cygnus-X1 - January 18, 2014

410. Michael Hall – January 18, 2014

…by making Spock–always the moral center of the show, at least as much as Kirk–somewhat sympathetic to the hippies’ cause, if not their methods, I consider “Eden” to be more balanced as an examination of the counterculture than you’re giving it credit for. Hell, even Kirk comes around to wryly defending them…

That’s all true, and I don’t deny them credit in the way of balanced views, but the space hippies are still under indictment for their methods from the get-go, if not for their motives. The episode begins with the hippies having stolen a ship, refusing to obey the law, and are about to blow themselves up when Kirk and crew save them from themselves. The theme of the episode is a cautionary tale about the hippies trying to achieve their dreams by following an insane cult leader, and we are put on notice of this theme early on in the episode. The empathy shown by Spock and Kirk is commendable, and serves to soften the didactic message, but there aren’t really any twists or turns in this story.

Where the episode errs most grievously IMO is in not giving the hippies an objective that would truly be worthy of consideration by the Enterprise crew. The real-life hippies in ’68, for all their faults, were mobilizing against a war that was killing hundreds of U.S. soldiers and Vietnamese civilians every week.

Totally agree with you here.

Still, I’ll take “Eden” any day over “Let that be Your Last Battlefield,” which has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

Don’t understand how you could think this. Even if you found the “Battlefield” theme a sledgehammer, that sledgehammer doesn’t come crashing down until the very end of the episode. “Battlefield” is not only a classic TOS episode, but classic 1960s television.

415. Cygnus-X1 - January 18, 2014

413. DiscoSpock – January 18, 2014

We were comparing The Way to Eden to Spock’s Brain, not comparing The Way to Eden to Let That be Your Last Battlefield. Of course Battlefield wins that comparison…duh! But again, Spock’s Brain was the comparison???

Well, I know that.

But “Spock’s Brain” didn’t really have a comparable theme with respect to the point that I was making about the theme in “The Way to Eden” being too thinly veiled. I suppose you could rightly criticize “Spock’s Brain” for having a weaker, less pointed theme than “The Way to Eden.”

416. Dave H - January 18, 2014

Disco,

Yea, I didn’t understand this “bait and switch” either by Cygnus. I don’t thing anyone here would ever dispute that “Battlefield” is not superior to “Eden.” However, that was NEVER even brought up by anyone here?

The comparison was between “Spock’s Brain” and “Eden.”

This deviation by Cygnus is nonsensical, and dead on arrival as far as I am concerned.

417. Cygnus-X1 - January 18, 2014

416. Dave H – January 18, 2014

What’s the matter with you?

I had more to say about “The Way to Eden” than just comparing it with “Spock’s Brain.” An additional point that I had to make had to do with “The Way to Eden” having a very thinly veiled premise. That point does not apply likewise to “Spock’s Brain.” It is possible to criticize different attributes of different things. Eden was bad in certain ways. Spock’s Brain was bad in certain ways. Not necessarily the same ways. It’s not rocket science, bro.

But, If you’re too stiff a Herbert to reach this concept, brother, it’s not gonna prevent me from being ONE.

418. John from Cinciniati - January 19, 2014

Cawley should stick to Elvis impersonations.

419. MJ - January 19, 2014

Cygnus,

I agree that Dave is over-reacting. But dude, you do seem to be trying to change the Spock’s Brain versus The Way to Eden comparison to instead comparing The Way to Eden to much better Trek episodes? I mean, I could go on and on about how much better City of the Edge of Forever is than The Way to Eden…but so what?

This is a bit disingenuous, but I am sure it was unintentional on your part.

420. Cygnus-X1 - January 19, 2014

418. MJ – January 19, 2014

In critiquing “The Way to Eden” I thought it useful to compare the thinly veiled treatment of its 1960s-social-issue theme to the more subtle treatment of the1960s-social-issue theme of another episode, namely the theme of “Battlefield.” The point is simply that Battlefield shows us how Eden might have been done better. That’s all.

To me, “Spock’s Brain” doesn’t have a 1960s-social-issue theme—at least it’s not as typically 1960s as the themes in Eden and Battlefield—so, the treatment of the theme in Spock’s Brain would not have been the best example for comparison in the point I was making.

It should be clear that my purpose in making the particular comparison with Battlefield was not to win an argument over which episode is worse—Eden or Spock’s Brain.

I really don’t know why I’m getting all of this flack. If people like Eden better than Spock’s Brain, I AM TOTALLY FINE WITH THAT. I’m just talking about this because I enjoy it. Or, at least, I was enjoying it.

421. Patty W - January 19, 2014

412. DiscoSpock – “”I found James Cawley’s Kirk to be extremely annoying, with the fake anger the smart-ass grins, not to mention he couldn’t even take the time to get a little hair coloring done. He tries way too hard to impersonate Shatner-Kirk. It’s laughable and distracting.”

wow. I really didn’t know there were fans out there still that were so ignorant. (not a slam, an actual qualifying adjective). James DOES color his hair… he dyes it from his natural “dirty blond that’s awfully like Shatner’s toupe’” to black… so he can play Elvis on stage and earn all the money that pays for Phase II. (Elvis, btw, also dyed his hair black.)

and we’ll just have to disagree on acting styles.

422. DiscoSpock - January 19, 2014

@420

Ignorrant?

Like I am suppose to know the original hair shade of fan actors?

Ah, the uncontrolled hubris of you fan production teams. What egos!

PS: And if James is such a hair-colooring machine as you suggest, then why in the heck can’t he either use remover or another colour to play a correct Kirk?

423. MJ - January 19, 2014

Patty,

Why would anyone here, outside of your production team, know personal things like James Cawley’s natural haircolor?

Come on, it’s not like you are all followed closely like real Star Trek actors would be. It’s a fan group, which is fun, but it’s not canon or real.

424. Dave H - January 19, 2014

” I really didn’t know there were fans out there still that were so ignorant.”

My, how condescending. What arrogance to assume that anyone outside of the close circle of this fan group would be following personal traits of the fan actors.

I can see why this Vic guy had enough with all of you and went to start his own fan production.

425. Patty W - January 19, 2014

Sorry… I assumed you guys post here routinely. James hair color (and the absurd notion that it’s a toupe’) comes up in every single Phase II thread here. In fact, it comes up in almost every thread posted everywhere… so much that it’s an in joke in the production. “How soon will it be about the hair?!” So I really did just assume that you’d read the same complaints and answers a couple dozen times before.

Two considerations…1. stripping 27 years of dye out of one’s hair does some rather dramatic damage to it. And once stripped re-dying it black without a prolonged period of “rest” could make it all break and fall out. 2. That means James “sometimes” can brave stripping the hair in November or December and hope he doesn’t get a Christmas show or a Valentines Day show. (which is not a good bet at all.) He can NEVER have blond hair during the late spring/summer/early fall when he is working constantly. Given that the Phase II studio has no heat and filming can only take place from May-November, he really can’t have blond hair for the film shoots. Shaving the sideburns is iffy enough. Just another factor, I am sure, that went into his decision to hire Brian Gross.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2482120329709&set=a.1098108850287.2016906.1153590603&type=3&theater

426. Patty W - January 19, 2014

423….MJ…..pssst…..”Star Trek” isn’t real. Don’t tell anyone though….

427. MJ - January 19, 2014

Well, thanks for the explanation, Patty.

428. Patty W - January 19, 2014

Dave H….you are reading things into a perfectly bland statement and assigning your own choice of emotions to them. I really did not realize there were people out there who had still not seen the repeated and repeated and again repeated debate and drama surrounding James’ hair color and ownership thereof. It seems improbable to me even now.

429. Dave H - January 19, 2014

@428

Patty, you guys are not movie stars. It’s not the real Star Trek. So it’s really egotistical to expect normal fans to know the personal details of your fanboy actors. Sorry, but you guys are just a bunch of fans — not the read deal. So no one outside of your clique really cares about the personal attributes of your staff.

I am not trying to be negative here…just trying to be real.

430. Blue Thunder - January 19, 2014

@418 – How about just letting James do what he enjoys doing. If he wants to work on Star Trek, that’s his choice. Phase 2 is his project, and he can do whatever he wants to do with it.

@424 – The ONLY reason Vic left was because he was banned from P2. From what I have been told – He was banned after he failed to take over the production. He was banned for his unprofessionalism and other juvenille BS. And he was banned because his ignorant, slimeballed antics held back the P2 production quite a bit. Especially when he illegally tried to release a cut of Kitumba without the permission of the P2 staff. An act that was in violation of a C and D order, from what I understand.

And from what I have also been told, Vic’s behavior made the two-week shoot an unpleasant and unhappy experience for many.

The ONLY reason Vic started his own production was out of toxic, personal spite and other petty, personal vendettas that he has toward P2 and anybody else who gets in his demented way.

All the more reason why Vic should NOT be let anywhere near ANY fan film projects, or projects in general, whatsoever.

431. K-7 - January 20, 2014

@430

You seem just as much a hate monger as Vic. You two should “get a room”

432. Cygnus-X1 - January 20, 2014

We’ve got one guy here complaining that James doesn’t dye his hair the right color to play Kirk, and then another guy giving the Phase II folks the high hat for thinking that anyone would care about James’ hair dye routine. However, if James were in a Paramount Trek production, the line of reasoning goes, then of course it would be reasonable to expect fans to complain about his hair dye and other grooming habits.

Anything else? Any other ridiculous, self-parodying-Trekkie minutiae that people want to get indignant over? Cuz I gotta say, it’s all quite riveting.

433. Marja - January 20, 2014

“Spock’s Brain” is hilarious, right up there with the best [worst] of Ed Wood! Some friends and I watched the ep and did a drinking game, taking a sip of wine every time someone said “Brain”

By the end we were TRASHED.

“Brain” is Trek’s version of Sci-Fi B-movies.

“Eden” – how the naive and disaffected can be attracted to a “family” with its own culture, led by a charismatic power-seeker who truly believes his own cant. How hard it is to convince followers that they’re being sold a bill of goods. And I like the music. Sort of. I liked Adam’s song about “coming in to Eden, yea, brother.” I liked Adam too. A good-natured lad who ended up in the wrong place.

“And the Children Shall Lead” – how the innocent can be lured by a charismatic power-seeker, and how difficult it is to overcome brainwashing. And how difficult it must have been for Nimoy to keep a straight Spock face while watching Shatner go wayyy over the top. That turbolift scene is a classic of opposing acting styles. Hee!

434. Marja - January 20, 2014

James [Cawley] DOES color his hair… he dyes it from his natural “dirty blond that’s awfully like Shatner’s toupe’” to black… so he can play Elvis on stage and earn all the money that pays for Phase II. (Elvis, btw, also dyed his hair black.)

Well, that explains the hair. I always wondered why it was too long and too black.

435. MJ - January 20, 2014

“Well, that explains the hair. I always wondered why it was too long and too black.”

Marja, shame on you for not knowing this? Don’t you realize that this is common knowledge to everyone?

(sarcasm)

436. Blue Thunder - January 20, 2014

@430 – You seem just as much a hate monger as Vic. You two should “get a room”

@431 – K-7, I don’t ‘swing’ that way. While it is true that I hate Vic’s guts for all of the toxic BS and harm he has caused, I am, in NO WAY, on the same level as him.

And as far as the discussion about James’ hairstyle and color is concerned, WTF does that have to do with him playing Kirk? It’s his hair and he can do whatever he wants to do with it! So what if it is dyed or in an Elvis-like hairstyle?

UGH!!!! Honest to God, you people just think of every reason under the sun just to criticize James’ work on Phase 2 or anything else of the smallest detail!

Reasons that don’t amount to a pile of BS!

Let the man handle his hairstyle and his hair color in his own way. It’s his hair, NOT YOURS!

How a person handles his or her own personal appearance is nobody else’s business or concern but his or her own!

Worry about your own personal appearances and less on those of others!

437. Michael Hall - January 20, 2014

*Sigh* Ms. Wright may have gotten a little defensive with the “issue” of James Cawley’s hair color, but only in the context of the often really vicious and personal piling-on his portrayal of Kirk has garnered over the years, often in threads on this very site. Small wonder she thought that anyone who actually gave a shit about these things would be well aware of the details by now.

I was fairly distressed to read on the Phase 2 site that he seems to have abandoned playing Kirk more due to the level of vitriol he’s received than the financial/scheduling issues that I’d assumed were the primary factors behind his decision. Frankly, I think that’s pretty shameful. Fair and constructive criticism is one thing, but the highly personal nature of the attacks I’ve seen here wouldn’t be tolerated in junior high. Those who wonder at how thin-skinned the Phase 2 crew–or the makers of any fan films, for that matter–can be a times might try fielding a similarly huge number of stink bombs lobbed from mama’s basements before jumping to any conclusions.

438. DiscoSpock - January 20, 2014

@436 “K-7, I don’t ‘swing’ that way. While it is true that I hate Vic’s guts for all of the toxic BS and harm he has caused, I am, in NO WAY, on the same level as him.”

Seems to me you are behaving here like a long-winded pompous-ass jerk — just like you want us to believe that Vic is.

I agree with K-7 — it takes one to know one. You and Vic are perhaps separated at birth me thinks?

439. TheBlackArchives - January 20, 2014

What the hell is going on with Star Trek? Its 50th anniversary is coming up and all we’ve got is low budget fanfilms, and a third JJ produced movie in the works. I’m still recovering from the Doctor Who 50th anniversary which the BBC overdosed us with, I sure hope Paramount has something similar in the pipeline for Star Trek. Trek deserves it and so do the fans. I’d hate to see its 50th pass by with just the JJ produced Star Trek 3: Tokyo Drift and some documentaries.

440. James T. K. - January 20, 2014

This Blue Thunder chap spreads his evil viscous rant on every single post or blog that mentions Star Trek Continues, and it’s the same thing over and over and over and over!! In most cases he just copies and pastes the same thing.

I personally don’t know Vic, but the fact that he doesn’t respond to this quack shows me that he has a lot of class. Blue, it’s time to practice what you’re preaching. You come across as being a HUGE hypocrite.

Rather than spreading this non-stop unsubstantiated slanderous gossip, find something a bit more constructive to do with your life. All this hate will only lead you to one place my friend, the mental ward.. It’s time to get over it buddy..time to get a life.

441. Ronnie B. - January 20, 2014

These fan films are poorly acted, poorly written and very amateurish. Yes, the effects are well-done–the episodes look like the original series. But nearly all the actors in ALL of these various fan-made series are remarkably untalented. Why anyone would enjoy this crap is beyond me. It’s like reading a short story written by a teenager.

442. Cygnus-X1 - January 20, 2014

433. Marja – January 20, 2014

“Spock’s Brain” is hilarious, right up there with the best [worst] of Ed Wood! Some friends and I watched the ep and did a drinking game, taking a sip of wine every time someone said “Brain” By the end we were TRASHED. “Brain” is Trek’s version of Sci-Fi B-movies.,

Fair enough, but how does the transparency of Eden’s premise not bother you?

What if the space hippies all wore signs around their necks which read, “Space disaffected late-1960s hippie Berkeley drop-out” would that bother you at all?

443. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 20, 2014

If Phase II would have happened in the 70s, I wonder if Elvis would have made a guest appearance.

444. Blue Thunder - January 20, 2014

@438 – Believe me, I am NOT related in any way to that toxic lowlife and long-winded pompous ass(i.e. Vic)whatsoever.

@440 – I’m afraid the phrase a lot of class doesn’t apply to Vic’s personality and his motives whatsoever. The ONLY things that apply to him(aside from being a toxic narciccist)are the descriptions that Kirk made of Harry Mudd when Chekov asked if he knew the latter in ‘I’ Mudd’.

Those descriptions and a lot worse, fit Vic like a glove.

445. Who cares - January 21, 2014

Well since I kinda started the whole “Spock’s Brain” vs “the Way to Eden”, quite unintentionally, I thought I would give opinion.

Spock’s Brain – I have to admit that while this episode is kind of fun to watch, it is almost the worst TOS episode on my list, but then there is Catspaw to consider, and Turnabout Intruder (I don’t like body switching, in Trek or otherwise, it just annoys me… and creeps me out).

The Way to Eden – Honestly I liked this story better when they redid it as Star Trek V. Seriously think about it, brilliant possible madman [Sybok/Dr. Sevrin] and his followers commit a crime that leads Enterprise to them [Hostages on Nimbus III/Stealing the Aurora] they then take control of the Enterprise in their search for Eden [in both cases] before discovering that what they were searching for was not there [poison planet/devil, evil energy being whatever].

Meanwhile Spock is standing apart from his companions in both cases and I think he “reached” Sybok as much as he did Adam.

Now that I think of it btw, the use of the word “reached” in the episode is reminiscent of the word “Grok” which is a term from the 1961 Robert Heinlein novel Stranger in a Strange Land, one of the Library of Congress’ “Books the Shaped America”, and a book that had a huge impact on the counterculture movement of the 60s. It is also features waterbeds which didn’t appear in real life for 7 years after the book was published.

The word Grok means “understanding so complete and intimate that it leads to oneness with the thing being understood”. While “reached” is an incredibly diluted form it is most likely as close as they could get the suits to let them go with it.

446. Disinvited - January 21, 2014

#445. Who cares – January 21, 2014

The only thing that comes to my mind that you omitted was that the saying “I Grok Spock” was quite popular in the 60s and made its way onto several Tees.

447. Michael Hall - January 21, 2014

“The Way to Eden – Honestly I liked this story better when they redid it as Star Trek V. Seriously think about it, brilliant possible madman [Sybok/Dr. Sevrin] and his followers commit a crime that leads Enterprise to them [Hostages on Nimbus III/Stealing the Aurora] they then take control of the Enterprise in their search for Eden [in both cases] before discovering that what they were searching for was not there [poison planet/devil, evil energy being whatever].”

Interesting comparison. I think it’s pretty apt, actually. Also, both stories suffer from having antagonists who are supposed to be somewhat sympathetic, yet in the end aren’t much more than terminal narcissists. Why should we, or the Enterprise crew, care if the space hippies get to live carefree lives on Eden, or if Sybok and his followers have their one-on-one with the Almighty?

At least the real hippies were agitating against a real war, between the free love and bong hits. (I saw hundreds of them get their asses kicked to pulp by Sam Yorty’s police department in Century City, CA in 1967.) The Trek versions seem to care only about goals which will affect no one but themselves. So in the end these stories aren’t really about youthful naïveté, or idealism gone wrong. They’re about selfishness and arrogance gone wrong. And that’s not the same thing at all.

448. Cygnus-X1 - January 21, 2014

445. Who cares – January 21, 2014

Good points re: comparison with STV. Though, being that STV generally ranks among the worst two Trek films of all time, the comparison doesn’t do Eden any favors. ;-)

449. Cygnus-X1 - January 21, 2014

447. Michael Hall – January 21, 2014

Also, both stories suffer from having antagonists who are supposed to be somewhat sympathetic, yet in the end aren’t much more than terminal narcissists. Why should we, or the Enterprise crew, care if the space hippies get to live carefree lives on Eden, or if Sybok and his followers have their one-on-one with the Almighty?

At least the real hippies were agitating against a real war, between the free love and bong hits. (I saw hundreds of them get their asses kicked to pulp by Sam Yorty’s police department in Century City, CA in 1967.) The Trek versions seem to care only about goals which will affect no one but themselves. So in the end these stories aren’t really about youthful naïveté, or idealism gone wrong. They’re about selfishness and arrogance gone wrong. And that’s not the same thing at all.

Thank you, you just nailed it.

The space hippies in Eden don’t really have any noble cause to redeem their bad behavior, even though Spock and Kirk try to ennoble them a bit with their sympathy and respect. That’s why the space hippies annoyed me from the get-go, and why I didn’t see much value in the theme of this episode. The space hippies are presented as unsympathetic from the very beginning, and they remain unsympathetic up until they meet their fate on Eden. If anything, the end of this story is a pay-off for the conservative, hippie-haters in the audience (and those who, like me, just found these particular characters annoying).

When you consider that the space hippies are just on a quest for self-interest, what you’re left with thematically is just a warning about following selfish demagogues. But because the space hippies, themselves, are also acting selfishly, we don’t really find much injustice in their fate after following the demagogue, Dr. Sevrin, a character who also remains unsympathetic throughout the episode. There’s no redemption in this story. None of the characters are shown to learn a lesson. The ones who don’t die from their bad decisions are simply carried away unconscious in the end by the Enterprise crew without so much as a word of apology or remorse.

In the end, “The Way to Eden” is just a story about a bunch of space brats who learn their lesson the hard way, with Kirk and crew bailing the them out of trouble in the end as loving parents do when they see their kids suffering from their own bad decisions. Not a terribly compelling theme, unless maybe the concept of a demagogue or cult leader is unfamiliar to you, which, to be fair, it probably was to many kids in 1968.

450. Michael Hall - January 21, 2014

“Thank you, you just nailed it.”

Thanks. Still, unlike you I do give the episode credit for having some sympathy towards the hippies at all. And in all fairness, the show concludes with Spock, and even Kirk, sincerely wishing the survivors well in their quest for happiness. That’s not nothing.

It all comes down to good writing, and the willingness to take on controversial material. The first was sadly not much in evidence during Trek’s final season, and in all truth, aside from its genuinely groundbreaking multiracial cast the show’s relationship to the second was always problematic at best. Even DS9, which I in many ways admire, chose to treat the Dominion War arc as an analogue to a “just,” defensive conflict like World War II rather than Vietnam. That’s a shame, since seeing the Federation and even Starfleet torn apart over a genuinely controversial decision to go to war would have been rife with dramatic possibility. (Just one example: what of the thousands of scientists who joined Starfleet during the relatively peaceful TNG era, and who must now learn to function primarily as soldiers? How would they feel about that?)

Maybe some day we’ll get a Trek series on that level, one hopefully NOT produced by the Supreme Court.

451. Cygnus-X1 - January 21, 2014

450. Michael Hall – January 21, 2014

And in all fairness, the show concludes with Spock, and even Kirk, sincerely wishing the survivors well in their quest for happiness. That’s not nothing.

Fair enough. I agree they do deserve credit for that; it’s just not enough to un-annoy me from everything else. I’d also agree that the episode deserves credit for its portrayal of a demagogic cult leader, which I did find effective. I didn’t like the Dr. Sevrin character, and I wasn’t supposed to, but there just wasn’t enough to counterbalance my dislike for the cult leader as well as for his flock. I’d have been only too happy to see them all die in the end. And even more happy if they’d all died toward the beginning. :-)

Maybe some day we’ll get a Trek series on that level, one hopefully NOT produced by the Supreme Court.

AMEN!!

452. MJ - January 21, 2014

Blue Thunder,

I agree with Disco Spock and K-7. By your actions here, you have “become as bad as your enemy so that you can defeat your enemy.”

You and Vic are both morally bankrupt, it would appear.

I don’t see any difference between your negative behavior here, and the negative behavior that you attribute to Vic.

You guys are cut from the same cloth.

453. Blue Thunder - January 21, 2014

@453 – I’m afraid you are incorrect in your comparative analysis, MJ. There is quite a difference.

1. Vic is the one that has no morals and is morally bankrupt.

2. I am not, as you say, cut from the same cloth that he cut from. He has violated more moral, ethical, and legal laws than I can shake a stick at. Violations of which that have gotten him banned from conventions, and various other genre related functions. And if I am not mistaken, a few restraining orders put out against him.

The last time that I looked, I have NOT committed such violations.

There are quite a few anti-sites on the internet about Vic, where people have stated the same things that Alec Peters, myself, and various others have said about Vic. And they too, have expressed the same hostility, resentment, disgust, and hatred toward Vic.

Does that make them morally bankrupt and cut from the same cloth?

Frankly, I don’t think it does.

454. Michael Hall - January 21, 2014

“The last time that I looked, I have NOT committed such violations.”

Perhaps not. But what you have insisted upon doing, over and over again, is continuing to flog this dead horse, despite the entreaties of everyone from the site administrator to the Phase 2 crew that you please, please give it a rest.

That may not be a violation of moral, ethical, and “legal laws”. But it certainly qualifies as bad manners, not to mention being pretty damned obnoxious.

455. Cygnus-X1 - January 21, 2014

453. Blue Thunder – January 21, 2014

Personally, I don’t mind all that much your obsessive vitriol for Vic Mignogna.

You can keep hammering away, if that’s what you need to do. But you might consider that most people “consider the source” when weighing information. And you’re not doing your own cause any favors by coming across like a bloody nutter. This isn’t meant as a personal disparagement, but your obsession with this man Vic is downright creepy. And, if anything, you have only succeeded in portraying yourself as an imbalanced mental case, and by corollary, Vic as perhaps unjustly maligned to some degree.

Again, as far as I’m concerned, you can keep at it if that’s what you need to do to exorcise your demons. But, at this point, I think it’s fair to say that you’re only hurting your own cause by doing so.

456. Blue Thunder - January 21, 2014

@454 – If anything qualifies as bad manners and being pretty damned obnoxious, it is Vic’s questionable antics and other disgusting acts.

Acts that take bad manners and obnoxiousness to an entire new, and I might also add disgusting, repulsive, offensive, level.

Many have witnessed much of his questionable antics firsthand at fan conventions or other film productions(even by acts of proxy)and many can tell you from personal experience.

To quote a friend of mine who was burned by Vic and his antics: “Vic is a two-faced, backstabbing liar and narccicistic manipulator who uses people to get what he wants, then discards them.”

Loosely translated: he tries to take over something and makes an effort to push the creator out of light.

And don’t get me started on the downright creepy way he is attempting to relive his youth(something that many very-caring parental figures DON’T take kindly, too)! Especially when it comes to thinly veiled negative comments about those who live a different lifestyle, and spewing religious propoganda.

As many have stated, Vic has had several opportunities to explain or apologize for his immature behaviour and he never has.

Based on what these people have said, is it logical trying to defend this imbalanced, or unbalanced mental case and his work?

Personally, I don’t think it is.

457. Garak's Pride - January 21, 2014

Blue Thunder,

Yea guy, you come across a nut-job who is obsessed with making this Vic guy out as the Antichrist.

You come across as wacked out and unhinged. And the way you carry on and on about Vic actually is happening the opposite effect on me as you intended. It seems to me that you are the negative person who is a hater and trouble-maker.

458. Another James - January 22, 2014

Hey there, Blue Thunder.

You have a cool user name, and you’ve made some interesting points about VM. Anyone running across this thread will see that there’s a controversy, and if they’re curious, they’ll look up more information and decide for themselves if VM is a bad guy. You’ve achieved your mission in this regard and can quietly declare victory.

This thread is winding down, as most have made the points they want to make. The next thread with VM or STC, we all expect you to come back again and fight the good fight, as you see it. And that’s fine. But this thread has already had its statements made, and it’s time to move on.

James Cawley, hey man, you did (and continue to do) a fantastic job. As a long time fan of TOS, Trek in general, and New Voyages/Phase II, I thank you for your hard work, devotion, talent, and for your achievements. You’ve enriched us all. LLAP!

459. Cygnus-X1 - January 22, 2014

456. Blue Thunder – January 21, 2014

Based on what these people have said, is it logical trying to defend this imbalanced, or unbalanced mental case and his work?

No one has asked you to defend him or his work.

And there’s a huge gulf of possible ways to comport yourself between defending him and what you’ve been doing.

Another thing to consider is that the man you’re obsessively spewing venom about hasn’t said a word here, in response to you or in defense of himself. So, in addition to coming across as creepy because you’re obsessed with this man Vic, you also come across as absurdly partisan and not particularly fair-minded, none of which makes you sympathetic or your proselytizing very persuasive.

The way you’ve been going about your crusade reminds me those crazed-out, shell-shocked doomsayers who stand in the middle of the street yelling warnings at the city about the looming apocalypse or whatever, while residents in the apartments nearby call the police to come remove the nuisance

If I were you, I’d have let up on all of the ad hominem descriptions regarding Vic a long time ago, and stuck to something at least resembling verifiable facts. If you’re trying to convince people to look into the matter of Vic and his past behavior, your personal opinions—and that’s really all that they are here in this context—aren’t working very well. Your words are like utterances from a wounded animal, dripping with such anxiety and anguish that they seem to exceed a reasonable reaction to the events that you allege.

460. Eodeon - January 22, 2014

Blue Thunder, This place is reserved for comments and discussion on Kitumba. I have read all the comments in hope of learning people’s opinions on fan films and I found out that half of them is an off topic flame you ignited in some kind of personal vendetta attempt whatever it is about. Moreover, you spammed every other forum on fan films I have visited in last couple of days. I’m not trying to shut your mouth or defend the person you are advising us against. I’m just telling you that you already said all you could, actually more than that, and maybe it is time to allow some space for the rest of us who are not interested in some vicarious behind-the-scenes gossiping, but in fan films themselves. I hope you manage to solve this personal problem you have with Mignogna, but please, let us enjoy fan films without any of this completely unnecessary off topic. I’m sure you understand.

461. Blue Thunder - January 22, 2014

@457 – a nut-job? wacked out and unhinged.? A negative person who is a hater and trouble-maker? You certainly described, Vic and his behavior , alright.

@458 – Thanks, I appreciate the support and the words of wisdom. Hopefully, in time people will look at the information and realize that there is cold, hard, facts in them.

@460 – I understand. Regretfully, the flamed spam was ignited by Vic and his BS some time past. Nevertheless, I understand.

462. Pony R. Horton - January 22, 2014

So, BACK TO KITUMBA.

One question the editor, Mark Lewis put to me and wanted me to discuss, was K’Sia’s bullwhip.

So here we go:

The whip is a VERY difficult weapon to master. Unlike a sword, which can at least be stabbed-with or flailed by even a neophyte and still be dangerous to an opponent, a bullwhip or stockwhip is much less forgiving, and will more likely bite its own user before hurting someone else. That’s why K’Sia carries one; it’s a sign of a skill level few Klingons possess, a sign of more disciplined training than is usually seen with bladed weapons. There’s an elegance to it as well, and unlike a sword, bat’leth, daq-tag or other bladed weapons, a whip can be used to maim OR to gently touch; it can deliver a powerful supersonic blow and can REMOVE a weapon from an opponent’s hand.

The whip seen in KITUMBA was one I had custom-made by a whipmaker in Montana named Jack Perry. It’s one he makes as part of his brand, and is patterned DIRECTLY after the whip used by Vincent Price in DeMille’s TEN COMMANDMENTS.

Just FYI!

Now can we PLEASE talk about KITUMBA for the rest of the thread?

463. Michael Hall - January 22, 2014

Was Mr. Perry aware that he was manufacturing a whip for use by kinky Klingons?

464. Pony R. Horton - January 22, 2014

Yes, he was, although my kink is often too powerful for most, so I kept quiet :)

Seriously, he made the whip to my specs specifically for K’Sia. I don’t know how he feels about it, maybe he thought I was crazy.

465. Michael Hall - January 23, 2014

“. . .although my kink is often too powerful for most. . .”

That’s definitely my recollection, but then, I’m getting to be an old fart. . . :-)

You should send him the “Kitumba” link so he can see just how crazy you all actually were. (Or maybe just pose for a photo with the whip in your Indiana Jones persona.)

466. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 23, 2014

Now can we PLEASE talk about KITUMBA for the rest of the thread?

A criticism.

I thought the initial bridge view screen shot of the Klingon armada was too filled with Klingon ships. It seemed to me that there were just to many on that shot in one place – like if the E just threw out one torpedo it could disable them all.

I would have preferred an initial wider shot that showed the positions of those ships on a tactical display. In fact, it seemed a lot of the shots of the armada in orbit were also very crowded with ships.

But hey, TOS did the same thing may times. They just never seemed to have the time to get those details just right.

The new voyages should be more polished and logical with their presentation of space ships on screen.

467. Michael Hall - January 23, 2014

“But hey, TOS did the same thing may times.”

Actually, they didn’t. Depicting armadas onscreen was completely beyond the scope of that show for both financial and technical reasons. Even in the episode “Balance of Terror,” which shows a cat-and-mouse struggle between the Enterprise and just one other ship that takes up almost the entire plot, both vessels are never shown onscreen at the same time. And you know what? It works better for the episode, heightening the suspense and each crews’ sense of isolation, as well as being more realistic in terms of tactics. (With the vast range of the weapons already established, why would the ships ever get that close to one another?)

Otherwise, your point is well taken. Oftentimes when people are given new tools such as CGI to play with their tendency is to do things with them just because they can. A shot with Klingon ships so crowded together that they would pose a navigational hazard to each other just doesn’t make sense, regardless of the technology and skill used to create it. As much as I admire the work of Tobias Richter in “Kitumba,” he would do well to recognize the dictum that even in visual FX, sometimes less is more.

468. Who cares - January 23, 2014

@467. But in “The Ultimate Computer” there are 4 Federation ships on screen at the same time during the war games part of the episode, even in the original not-remastered version, where all of these ships are obviously just the single Enterprise model with some help from mirrors. Then in “The Enterprise Incident” there are 3 Romulan ships and the Enterprise all on screen together. So there are times when they did show multiple ships at the same time in TOS.

469. Blue Thunder - January 23, 2014

@468 – There was also the remastered SFX scene in ‘The Deadly Years’ when the Enterprise was attacked by three Romulan Bird Of Preys.

470. Michael Hall - January 23, 2014

Yes, those two eps do feature multiple ships onscreen, though I wouldn’t typify them as ‘armadas.’ (And no, I’m not counting the remastered versions.). And the Federation fleet in TUC was a multiple composite, not done with mirrors. But in none of those shows do the ships crowd each other in the frame the way they do in “Kitumba” and other recent productions.

471. Patty W - January 23, 2014

Perhaps they are only crowded due to perspective. It could be a VERY wide shot, showing ships a long distance apart.

Except for the “Home Guard” shot….where there are 100 ships guarding the Klingon homeworld. That’s not bad VFX, it’s bad planning by the Klingons.

And our original VFX artist said the same thing you guys point out… when he read about the Klingon patrol group of 5 he stated “you have to rewrite this, I can’t do five ships in a shot. It’s too many – can’t do it.” I called James and said “I guess he hasn’t read the rest of the script, huh?”

472. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 23, 2014

Safe to say, if you are seeing more than three ships onscreen in a static shot, then your seeing a lot of ships in relatively the same place, or sector in space.

I actually did not mind that the Klingon ships were so crowded in orbit.
Yes, I wondered why, but thought perhaps that these starships were always competing for the “sweet spot” above Qo’nos. Kind of like “the perfect orbit.” A competitive spot where Klingon navigators pride themselves as they jockey for the best prime spot. Perhaps that corridor above Qo’nos also assists with beam downs by making them less risky.

But in deep space it seems these ships should always be at least tens of thousands of kilometers apart from each other.

The writers seemed to make a point of this themselves by having Kirk remark that he was also a bad driver, at one time in his youth. A line that made me smile when I watched, but with Mr. Cawley’s take on it, the essence of his expression and delivery seemed to be coming from a true fan – acting like Kirk – rather from Kirk himself.

It’s gravitas that I think is very easy for Mr. Shatner. But still very entertaining to watch Mr. Cawley try and justify.

Indeed. I will be missing Jame’s take on Jim in all future STC productions.

473. Blue Thunder - January 23, 2014

@472 – Actually, that’s future NV/P2 productions.

474. Michael Hall - January 23, 2014

“That’s not bad VFX, it’s bad planning by the Klingons.”

LOL. Or, just rationalization on someone’s part. :-)

But seriously, and just to be clear: I thought the visual FX work on “Kitumba” was epic and spectacular. I might have toned it down a little, but what the hell do I know? If I had half the artistic ability of Tobias Richter, or Pony Horton for that matter, I’d be a happy camper.

475. Montgomery Scott - January 24, 2014

I’ve been reading through this and other threads for the past several days. I have a new idea for a drinking game… take a drink every time BT says “toxic” or “narcissist” and make it a double if it’s “toxic narcissist”!

Now I’m going to get something for these bleeding eyes…

To the P2 cast and crew – great job, keep up the excellent work!

476. Larry Talbot - January 24, 2014

You could get really hammered if you took a drink every time BT talks about Vic. “Kitumba is great–no thanks to Vic.” “The Holiest Thing will be better than the next episode by Vic.” “My cat died–because of Vic.” “There’s global warming because of Vic.” BT hasn’t heard that the only thing worse than bad publicity is no publicity. He really likes talking about Vic and getting others to talk about Vic. The fact that BT likes to talk about Vic so much is more telling than what he’s ostensibly saying about Vic. Although BT thinks that being less of an evil jerk than Vic somehow inoculates BT from being compared to Vic, BT doesn’t realize that he’s running a very close Second to Vic, not a distant Second. Good news, BT: slow and steady wins the race. You’re catching up!

477. Blue Thunder - January 24, 2014

@475 and 476 – Well, you two will be the ones that suffer from either a severe hangover. Or worse, a bad dose of alcohol poisoning. The latter of which can be fatal to ones health. Personally, I don’t think it is worth killing your liver and brain cells over, but, its just as you please.

On the subject of the SFX in Kitumba, all of the SFX shots were spectacular and dazzling. Right down to the battle sequences between the Enterprise and some of the Klingon warships near and in orbit around the Klingon Homeworld. Even the appearance of Praxis in the sky was a sight to behold.

Definately a Star Trek adventure at its most finest.

478. TrekMadeMeWonder - January 24, 2014

I am feeling a bit guilty that I cannot send $5 to Cawley and company for making a few hours worth of great entertainment.

479. Cygnus-X1 - January 24, 2014

478. TrekMadeMeWonder – January 24, 2014

It’s only because of Vic and his toxic narcissism that you can’t send James Cawley some money.

And if it wasn’t for Vic, my cat would still be alive, too. Vic put out Pilgrim of Eternity on May 23, 2013, and exactly 5 months and 23 days later, my 17-year-old cat died. Coincidence? Not likely.

480. Pony R. Horton - January 24, 2014

BT, glad you liked my vision of Praxis. I handled almost all of the matte shots and VFX that were NOT in space; that stuff was all Tobias. As soon as I learned we would be on the Sacred Homeworld, I figured “We GOTTA see Praxis, all lava-filled and looming in the sky.”
The only matte shot I did NOT do was first image on the planet where they beam down and the city is behind them; that was Tobias as well.

Frankly, I’m pretty proud of those Praxis shots.

Thanks again!

481. Montgomery Scott - January 24, 2014

Pony, great job with your vision of Praxis! It looked ready to blow then and there, never mind several more decades of over-mining.

Here’s an idea for a vignette… “Ice Age” style squirrel-with-the-acorn showing some poor Klingon slave miner hammering away at a vein of dilthium and then we hear a loud CRACK, watching his expression as he watches it spread up, sideways and right under his feet. Wile E. Cayote hovering in mid-air for a moment as the ground crumbles under him… quick pan out to orbit above Praxis as it implodes and we hear him swearing in Klingon…. what’s Klingon for “oh sh*t!” anyway?

And it’s a pity that Malkthon got vaporized… I wonder if BT would tolerate Vic making one last appearance in P2 as the hapless miner who caused the utter decimation of the Klingon homeworld…

Back to the bottle I think… ;)

482. Blue Thunder - January 24, 2014

@480 – My pleasure, Pony. Keep up the excellent work!

483. Blue Thunder - January 24, 2014

@478 – I’ll ignore the sarcasm and just quote the following: “Most illogical.”

@481 – Not a pity. AN absolute joy! An interesting idea, but it would be more effective without the Looney Tunes overtones. While it sounds intriguing, the chances of Vic ever making one last appearance on P2 in such a scene(after all the unwanted trouble and BS he had caused the production)are an absolute ZERO.

Enjoy your bottle.

484. Montgomery Scott - January 25, 2014

@483 I was thinking animated with a tongue in cheek sense of humor that gives a nod to those other animated sources of inspiration…. Very much in the same vein as Pony’s “Cookin with Gas” film (could even call it ‘Out of Gas’ and title it in Klingon with Fed standard subtitles).

My point about Malkthon is that Vic need not be in it to have a little fun with the concept and still reference his portrayal of Malkthon in Kitumba. After all, Kruge and Korrd (played by Christopher Lloyd and charles Cooper originally) were represented effectively as younger versions of themselves in Kitumba. In an animated short, we have even more freedom.

As we know, the sins of the father are visited upon the sons in Klingon society, so perhaps Malkthon had a son who was sentenced to hard labor in the mines of Praxis. He’d be digging dilithium or jellybeans or whatever they mined from Praxis for quite some time before the events in STVI. Poor safety practices are no stranger to the Klingon work ethic and Malkthon’s offspring would likely be even more inclined to cutting corners to make his job easier.

Now, I suspect that Malkthon’s son would look quite a bit like him, and if he inherited the Augment DNA, would look quite human…. so for you, BT, the fellow single-handedly responsible the destruction of an entire moon and subsequent devastation wreaked upon the homeworld’s biosphere and Klingon society in general would be a dead wringer for the human who portrayed his father in Kitumba.

That would be the Tuckerism to end all Tuckerisms, In the time honored tradition of Trek and what it stands for, I think using humor to settle a score and a grudge might be called for. I refer of course to Scotty’s “no tribble at all” solution at the end of TtwT and Kirk and Co. sharing a laugh with Kang’s crew to drive out the malevolent entity that thrived on hatred and never-ending fighting (DotD).

485. Pony R. Horton - January 25, 2014

Praxis blew NOT just because of overmining and poor safety, but because SOMEONE had some bad Gak at lunch, then later, while working near a lava flow intake, suddenly felt the need to let fly with the gaseous by-product of said bad lunch…. POOT!

AND BOOM!

No more Praxis!

Never underestimate the power of Klingon gas. It’s not just for fun in airlocks!
(I should KNOW – just ask David Gerrold about Pony and gas!)

486. Blue Thunder - January 25, 2014

@484. I got to admit, it’s a brilliant idea. I like it!

@485 – LOL! Good one, Pony! :)

487. Denny Crane - January 25, 2014

57:17- the inclusion of the Howard Dean Scream was a very pleasant surprise. Maybe, one day, it’ll replace the Wilhelm Scream.

488. dollar lawley - January 26, 2014

So what the f is wrong with this Blue Thunder jerk and why doesn’t the moderator clean up his posts? If he posted his name he’d be a great target for a lawsuit, and so are you for posting his unending, non-stop junk. Get a psychiatrist and a job, champ. Cawley’s fine with it. What makes you so special?

And here we go. He’s going to respond by making another idiotic list, because he NEVER can let a challenge go unanswered, at length ad naudeum; then he’ll work in the words twisted and whatever aimed at the Object of his Hatred, and he’s so deluded he thinks no one can read between the lines: he’s mentally ill. And it this point, s for brains, it’s a forumula.

And clearly, Patty, you and several other people know his identity, why protect him? He should be stopped, and maybe arrested.

489. Blue Thunder - January 27, 2014

@488 – With rudeness and sublime savagery like that, it’s a miracle that mankind(as a group in general)has lasted as long as it has.

@487. It’s possible. Then again, maybe both sound effects will be kept.

490. Cygnus-X1 - January 27, 2014

488. dollar lawley – January 26, 2014

You’re a bit late to the party. It’s over.

Are you sure you want to start it all up again?

491. Patty W - January 29, 2014

488 – thing is, the base of most of BTs claims are very factually supported, and a lot of the facts are public knowledge. So he can’t really be “arrested” for anything…because beating a dead horse is not a crime. Something we have no interest in wasting energy on, but that’s our choice. His persistence and energy may be overpowering – but that’s not illegal either. In fact, if he channeled that energy for good it would be remarkable. (ya know, like getting us a Hugo nomination for Kitumba….nominations go live on Friday ;-) )

492. helenofpeel - February 1, 2014

Why in the hell is Mr. Thunder still posting like he’s throwing a gosh durn tantrum?!?!?!

493. Blue Thunder - February 1, 2014

@491. – Thanks for clarifying the issues and the support, Patty. I’m hoping that Kitumba will be nominated for the Hugo Award. Let alone win the award. It would be awesome! :) :) :) :) I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

@492 – Seems to me that you are the one throwing a gosh durn tantrum. I just tell it like it is. The incidents are public knowledge and based on fact.

Obviously people can’t handle the truth because they know that it is the truth and they feel threatened by it. As well as honesty.

Truth and Honesty are severely lacking in today’s society. It’s time for those values, among others, to return.

494. Patty W - February 2, 2014

well I wouldn’t exactly classify it as “support”. Just the legal facts….and then the wish that you would spend your energies for the positive rather than beating a dead horse.

Truth be told, Vic has won in your case…because he inhabits your brain 24/7 and fills your soul with bad energy. He doesn’t deserve that kind of reward.

495. Larry Talbot - February 2, 2014

@493: Announcing that the sky is blue is telling it like it is. That cheese is delicious is telling it like it is. I can’t speak informedly on what you assert about Vic, but there seem to be all kinds of things that are “truth” and are “hones”–and you don’t seem to like to discuss any of the universe-full of truthful and honest things. Vic is the *only* thing that you like to “tell like it is.” Because it’s “truth,” you feel entitled to perseverate on Vic. No one is fooled. You just really love love love discussing him. The fact that you complain about him is far less significant than the fact that you like to discuss him at all. Patty W is right: not only is Vic living rent-free in your mind, you want to fill everyone else’s thoughts on this board (and others) with thoughts of him as well–under the guise of “truth and honesty.”

496. Blue Thunder - February 2, 2014

@494 – Rest assured, Patty, that slimy SOB does not inhabit my thoughts 24/7. There is no way that he will ever win or be rewarded with something as that.

@495 – Frankly, I don’t like discussing him at all. But, when his name does come up, then yes, I will voice what I hate about him and the disgusting BS he has pulled. And no, I don’t fill others with thoughts of him. Whether you or others believe that or not, that’s something you have to work out among yourselves.

497. Blue Thunder - February 2, 2014

@495 – I should also like to point out something else. Despite the change in the subject, it has some similarities to what some have been criticizing me about in my negative comments about Vic and his ST abomination.

Star Trek fans seem to love bashing on J.J. Abrams and what ‘damage’ they think that he has inflicted on the franchise. Granted there are some things that I didn’t enjoy about the first two prequel/reboots, but I really think that some of the harsh criticisms toward him are way worse than anything I have ever posted about Vicky and his sick BS.

It seems to me that ST fans just enjoy bashing the hell out of Abrams for the sake of just bashing him. He did, after all, bring life back into Star Trek, after Rick Berman, Brannon Braga, and Ronald D. Moore nearly drove into the ground.

Yet, people still go out of their way just to bash him because they don’t like what they see in this new timeline. Or what he has done or not done.

498. Larry Talbot - February 3, 2014

@497: I see that knee-jerk defense again: “As long as I’m not as bad as the worst person who is doing similar stuff, I’m golden! I’ve got it made in the shade! I’m not as bad as others in the things I do, so I’ve inoculated myself against my critics. My comments about Vic are less vitriolic than some people’s comments about JJ Abrams, so therefore I am above reproach.” If “number of Internet boards from which you are banned” is a measure of how acceptable your “telling it like it is ” has become to people, I think you have, in fact, become less popular in the Star Trek world than Vic. Good job! You finally made it: you *are* in First Place! A noble achievement! I knew you could do it!

499. Kevin J. - February 3, 2014

I hear that Star Trek Continues is going to release their second episode next weekend (which I’m looking forward too). My guess is that this nut case BT will be repeating all the same trash talk on every blog that mentions STC. Anyone willing to bet me on this??? Of course not, who would take that bet. Get ready everyone, the crazy BT is going to copy and paste his little heart out next week.

BTW, I loved Kitumba and I love STC. Looking forward to seeing Lou Ferrigno in episode two this weekend!

500. Blue Thunder - February 3, 2014

@498 – I have never claimed to be golden or have it made in the shade. Vic, himself, has already earned those egotistical titles by his atypical and illogical(no pun intended behavior).

Frankly I am not concerned about popularity in the Star Trek world. With the way some fans have twisted, perverted, and poisoned the guts out of it by going after others over vitrolic matters(a majority of which because of their inability to find any common ground, interest-wise), I doubt seriously if anyone would concern themselves with such a useless competition and experiment.

If anything, with all the disputes I have seen in the ST world over various issues and certain matters, it is fast becoming a ‘gated community of the damned, run by those segregationist tendencies’.

As far as internet boards are concerned, quite a few are nothing more than mismanaged fetid and festering cyber-sewers. Including and up to cyber-pigmires run(i.e. mismanaged)by pernicious malcontented vermin who have no comprehension of the English language and often spout thrice-daily swill.

@499 – More like an opinion and a point of view. There is a difference.

501. Kevin J - February 3, 2014

Dear Blue Thunder, if you do continue to bash Vic in every single internet article (I haven’t seen one yet in which you haven’t), can you refrain from using the same words over and over again? I mean really!! How many times have you used, vitriolic, poisoned, vermin, disgraceful, twisted, spiteful and your favorite word of all time, toxic!!

Also, you say that STC is trash, but if you actually saw it, you would realize it’s amazing and really well done! It doesn’t seem like a fan film at all, but an extension of TOS. The only reason you say terrible things about STC is because of your hatred of Vic. I believe that if there was another Kirk, someone other than Vic, you would love it. It is by far the best fan film I have ever seen and Vic is one of the reasons for that. He is by far the best Kirk I have seen (other than the original). I think that the whole cast is amazing.

502. Patty W - February 3, 2014

I want to congratulate the entire Phase II cast and crew that worked on “Kitumba” – it truly is an amazing accomplishment! And all the hard work, friendship and dedication shows!

The VFX is unparralled, thanks to Tobias and Pony.

The location scenes look like an alien planet…something which no other fan film has been able to accomplish. For anyone unaware, that involved three marathon moves and filming…. moving the whole studio to the location by 5pm, setting up, filming, and tearing down all by 5 am the next day….only to repeat it all over again TWICE. The “preprep” included rewiring the location so it could handle the massive generators and lights required.

The variety of aliens made it look real as well…..none of the “we are going to put everyone in a Klingon TOS costume and do all the makeup the same”. That involved marathon sewing sessions and wardrobe/makeup on the sets (in the dark!) (and a lot of safety pins and duct tape in the end LOL)

The fights were pure TOS. That was thanks to the amazing work of John Carrigan – the fight coreographer/actor/dojo owner. He and his assistants not only planned the fights – they actual sent DVDs out ahead of time so each actor could practice before they got to the set. Once there, John and crew grabbed everyone as they arrived and dragged them out to practice repeatedly. Kent Schmidt brought hordes of weapons which added to the reality. I’m sorry you didn’t get to see some of the fights that were filmed leading up to the end fight, but it still comes off as pure TOS to me.

The sets and set extensions were also outstanding…especially considering the lame direction of the writer. Poor Jeff Mailhotte would ask “what’s a Kitumba sitting room look like?” and my answer would be “I don’t know, JML wrote that”. He and Tony DeGregario pulled off a LOT of new sets and made them all look original and not like this was filmed in someone’s garage…which, to me, is death in a fan film.

The IKF showed up and put the icing on the cake…with their makeup help, their donations, their set help….great bunch of people.

And the actors and crew….well filming at 4 am after being on set since 9 is an astounding feat. I honestly feel the actors were at their best in this episode – every one of them. They made these characters their own.

To me – this episode is fan films at their best. Truly a family, truly a work of dedication and love – and it shows in an episode that really was an entire series of miracles. (there were several places in the first drafts of the script that read…”a ______ that we can’t possibly pull off”.)

And all of it because of the single minded, persistent, exacting direction of the Senior Exec…James Cawley. The guy running the show sets the tone of everything, and the expectations. “It’s good enough” will never be tolerated on this fanfilm….and it shows.

And finally, the Phase II crew lost FIVE people to the galaxy that worked on this show – so things will never be the same. I wish this one had been dedicated to them. Or at least to Tony D.

well, that’s my opinion about the episode, anyway.

503. Larry Talbot - February 3, 2014

@500: You haven’t claimed you are golden or have it made in the shade. You *have* claimed that Vic is worse than you. That’s no longer the case; you have now surpassed him. You used to deliver important warning about Vic; now the vitriol and volume of your complaints–truth or not–have completely undermined your assertions. You can discontinue now; everyone dismisses what you say, and you have now reached and far surpassed the point of diminishing returns.

504. Blue Thunder - February 3, 2014

@501 – Well, I could use more ‘colorful metaphors’, but I believe the negative descriptions that I have used have been quite effective and more than sufficient.

If STC had been set in between TMP and TWOK, had a different actor playing Kirk, and run by a different production company and its members(one that didn’t let its reputations get permanently tarnished by their narciccistic business partner and his illegal acts)…well, what’s the point in speculating on what ifs?

STC is still the equivalent of a pile of pig manure.

As far as I am concerned…Star Trek-New Voyages/Phase II is the BEST fan film. And shame on those who have given James Cawley and his staff a hard time(whether the debates have been about James’ performance as Jim Kirk or something else production related). James Cawley did an excellent job in playing Jim Kirk. Cawley’s version, along with those performed by Bill Shatner, Christopher Pine, and the upcoming Brian J. Gross, are certainly better, more noteworthy, and definately more entertaining.

Vic’s version is none of these qualities. Vic’s version can be best equated with a rotten Ham, a double dose of ‘no hand over mouth’ beer or bad onion belching, and loud methane gas passing from a human, an ox, and an equine that has been put out to pasture.

@503 – I don’t see how I have surpassed Vic by my negative criticisms of him, his antics, his modis operandi, and his other confusing forms of inexplicable, illogical(no pun intended), unprofessional, inexcusable, and anti-social behavior. Nevertheless, that is your opinion.

However, your usage of the words ‘diminishing returns’ would be better applied to subjects pertaining to the current content of the cinematic arts and its box office, than it would here.

505. VictoryforM - February 4, 2014

This all seems very, very familiar somehow and amazingly Ruthless…. like Thunder out of the Blue on that day in ’68 outside the old Sentinel building in SF near the Diplomat. The time has come to start linking the “toxic” trail of crumbs left all over the internet and follow it to where it leads….perhaps we may find the true face of narcissim if we just type in a few search terms and make a conclusion based on the evidence.

Jonathan M, are you haunting this place?

506. Larry Talbot - February 4, 2014

@504: Your loathing of Vic Mignogna is matched only by your defensiveness. It’s not only revealing; it has gotten old. Despite (and not because of) your “truth and honesty,” we have long ago tuned out any messages you bring to the table.

507. Kevin J. - February 4, 2014

504 “Well, I could use more ‘colorful metaphors’, but I believe the negative descriptions that I have used have been quite effective and more than sufficient”.

“effective”? At what? Nothing you have said has changed the minds of anyone! No one cares that you hate Vic…no one!! It goes without saying, but I’m sure everyone who reads your posts thinks you are completely nuts!! The only thing you have effectively done is bring more people to watch Star Trek Continues. When you say “effective”, what is it that you hope to accomplish? You are preaching to dead ears here, buddy. The only thing it accomplishes is giving you some sort of personal satisfaction.
Oh, in my earlier post I forgot the word “narcissist”. That too is one of your frequently used descriptions. Unfortunately for you, you seem to be the narcissist here, and like most people who suffer from this, they don’t realize it.

Poll: So, who here thinks he’s completely of his rocker?

508. Who cares - February 4, 2014

@506 . I actually don’t think he is influencing anyone to check out STC. I mean he is certainly not convincing anyone not to check it out. After all, most of us barely have any idea at all who Vic is, and fewer of us care, and this incessant rhetoric from some random jacka– on the internet is just pathetic.

But in terms of people watching STC, the production will still have to overcome all the usual obstacles for a fan film, amateur actors, weak sets, etc. Not to say there couldn’t be some good stuff in there (though not the Plug n Play Nacelles from the first STC vignette, that was sad), just that one a–hole ranting and raving about Vic constantly is not going to drive people to forget their usual issues with a fan film just to spite BT.

I’ll grant that there might be one or two that would, but not much more than that, its just the nature of the beast.

509. VictoryforM - February 4, 2014

@506 Re: poll

Agreed. But let’s play a game called “clues” and see if anyone can spot our favorite anonymous narcissist, shall we? The time has come to start linking the “toxic” trail of crumbs left all over the internet and follow it to where it leads….perhaps we may find the true face of narcissim if we just type in a few search terms and make a conclusion based on the evidence. And yes, that face is visible in Google if one just follows the clues.

Right, then, here goes. The clues are all here. Have fun Googling and post your answer. Should be diverting if nothing else!

CODED MESSAGE BEGINS:
This all seems very, very familiar somehow and amazingly @Ruthless…. like Thunder out of the Blue on that day in ’68 outside the old Sentinel in SF near the Diplomat.

Jonathan M, are you haunting this place?

510. Kevin J. - February 4, 2014

I think I’ve narrowed down the search criteria for you. My detective work shows that BT may be from Austin, Texas with a possible connection to Chicago. His first and last name start with a “J”. He has an alias with the initials J.C.

It’s a start! :)

511. Kevin J. - February 4, 2014

508 “But in terms of people watching STC, the production will still have to overcome all the usual obstacles for a fan film, amateur actors, weak sets, etc”

I agree about overcoming the usual obstacles, but for their first episode, it was pretty damned good. I believe that most of the actors are professionally trained and it shows. Not perfect, but much better than 99% of the fan films out there. Ironically, Chris Doohan (Scotty) said in an interview that he was the only one without real acting experience. In my eyes, he was the best actor in the bunch. The sets were a little weak in the vignettes they produced, as you didn’t see any of the blinking lights, etc. It appeared that they fixed that in Pilgrim of Eternity. They seem top notch now. Even Tom Hanks talked about Star Trek Continues on an interview with Kevin Pollack. He seemed very excited it and said it was like watching TOS.

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