Shatwatch 2014 – Featured in new Visit California promo | TrekMovie.com
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Shatwatch 2014 – Featured in new Visit California promo February 17, 2014

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Celebrity , trackback

Shatner sighting! Not only is Star Trek’s original Captain Kirk featured on VisitCalifornia.com latest TV spot, his segment was shot at his old stomping grounds, in the backlot of Paramount Studios.

Click here for a short look at the making of his segment:
http://www.visitcalifornia.com/Life-In-California/Dreamers/William-Shatner-at-Paramount-Studios-Hollywood/

VisitCalifornia.com is the web site of the office of tourism for the state of California,  tasked with providing travel information including California vacations, California tourism, and other events throughout the state. Mr. Shatner is one of several celebrities lending his talents to this latest promotional effort.

On a related note, if you find yourself in Frankfurt, Germany on February 21st, and are looking for something to do, William Shatner is scheduled to appear at Destination Star Trek, in Frankfurt. Looks like Trek will be well represented at the event next weekend.
http://www.destinationstartrek.com/

Comments

1. CmdrR - February 17, 2014

Only Shat can list on his resume: “I’m Shat” and make money!!

2. I am not Herbert - February 17, 2014

hmmm… interesting…

FAKE SNOW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xyK-P35qo4

http://www.whoneedslight.net/page/482791738

3. Harry Ballz - February 17, 2014

Never mind Shatner, how about that chick on the water jetpack?

4. I am not Herbert - February 17, 2014

…and, oh yeah… SHAT RULES!! =D

5. I am not Herbert - February 17, 2014

…yeah, I LOVE LIVING in (Northern) California! <3

…too bad we are running out of water… =(

Thanks, greedy free-market profiteers! =(

6. I am not Herbert - February 17, 2014

Hey Harry Ballz! =)

YAY! for (California-grown) boobies! =D

7. UKTrekkie - February 17, 2014

I think you will find it is spelt Frankfurt.

8. Harry Ballz - February 17, 2014

@6

Hey, how’s it going, I am not Herbert?

I’ve been to California about 20 times in my life. I LOVE IT!

:>)

9. Marja - February 17, 2014

Good ol’ Shat, I love his sense of humor about himself!

Herbert, The 8 years I spent in California were the best years for seeing natural beauty [plenty of male pulchritude on view, too]. I love the hills, ocean views and redwoods, the fantastic campsites, and more. I used to walk on the beach in Alameda and look at the GG Bridge and the Bay Bridge and the city, lit up like jewels …

I will never forget my drives up the coast on Highway 1. I can rhapsodize about CA for hours. I am sad that I couldn’t afford to stay. Plus the drought conditions worried me [indeed, “thanks” Las Vegas and other diverters of NoCal’s natural watershed supply].

So I moved to north Flori-duh [the politics here are nothing like NoCal’s, believe me. I don’t think they’ve ever heard of the Green Party here]. The water supply here is good at least for the rest of my life, and though the summer heat and humidity are horrible and there are NO mountains or hills or evening fog rolling through the Golden Gate, at least the oak trees in North Fla are nice :-)

The Georgia mountains, unlike the California hills, are over three hours away from where I live. In Alameda I could be at the coastal hills in about 30 minutes.

I MISS IT SO MUCH.

10. I am not Herbert - February 17, 2014

Hey Marja =)

I used to live in Alameda… great little town! =)

…but right across the bridge from Oakland… ;-)

my sympathies re: florida political reality… hope u can make a difference! =)

Happy Pez’s Day everybody! =D

11. I am not Herbert - February 17, 2014

you must have been in the navy… ;-)

12. Phil - February 17, 2014

@5. Well, being from southern CA – a contracts a contract, had it over.

I kid – CA’s water woes are, to some extent or another. self inflicted. Northern CA has some really weird ideas on how to waste water as well, and still seem to have issues with adding storage capacity. So, the big question mark is, while CA is bone dry, the Colorado River drought seems to be easing – record snowfall at the headwaters for the CO. River should ease the problem.

Regardless, it’s a good idea to save H Two Oh this year, regardless of where in CA you live.

13. Basement Blogger - February 17, 2014

Good to see William Shatner in action again. I hope he’s active in the Star Trek universe come the fiftieth anniversary. But I don’t want him in the next movie because it doesn’t make any sense. Regardless, he should be actively involved in the celebration of Star Trek at year fifty.

14. Captain Dunsel - February 17, 2014

@Marja & I Am Not Herbert

“But, vhere is Ah-lah-meedah?!”

15. MJ - February 17, 2014

No offense to Shatner, but he is a native Canadian, who makes his U.S. home in Kentucky.

As a citizen of the great state of California, I’d like to seen “true Californians” featured in these commercials, of which I bet are partially funded by the state taxes I pay in California.

Let Shat promote Canada and/or Kentucky — his homes.

16. I am not Herbert - February 17, 2014

New Study: Internet Trolls Are Often Machiavellian Sadists

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2014/02/internet-trolls-sadists-psychopaths-lulz

17. Vultan - February 17, 2014

Lousy Canadian/Kentuckian carpetbaggers.
When will this country wake up?

18. MJ - February 17, 2014

@15

LOL

19. Martman - February 18, 2014

Not related to this story,,
but an interesting Star Trek add !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC_sM-ggBlQ

:oD

20. Basement Blogger - February 18, 2014

@ 2, 5

I am not Herbert,

First let me admit that I do digress from the story at times when I post. But what does allegedly “fake snow” have to do with William Shatner doing California tourism commercials?

Second, I clicked on your hyperlink on your name which features one of those “look out for the new world order” websites. (CLG) It seems the guys behind it are also 9/11 truthers. If this is your website then let me apologize now. Your website is you, assuming you are behind CLG.

However you bring up fake snow. By the way, I haven’t heard any legitimate scientific organizations make that finding. You link a paranoid website about government conspiracies. We’re not dumb. You are saying fake snow is some type of government conspiracy. This has nothing to do with William Shatner or the great state of California. The logical conclusion is that you are proselytizing, Please stop it.

21. K-7 - February 18, 2014

@19

When he says he loves living in Northern California, that means he loves smoking weed in NoCal.

And that certainly explains a lot of behavior here on this website over the years.

22. I am not Herbert - February 18, 2014

FYI: it’s not MY website, and I am most definitely NOT proselytizing…

as usual, you and your ilk are trying to throw me under the bus… =(

…just hoping to inform my fellow fans of Sci-Fi-like “weirdness” ;-)

(BTW: If you are not concerned about secret government (Illuminati) maleficence, you ARE dumb.)

Re: “…smoking weed in NoCal.” What’s not to LOVE?? <3 <3 <3

LL&P

23. Exverlobter - February 18, 2014

Damn, i even live in Germany, but don’t have enough money for the train to go to Frankfurt.

24. Silvereyes - February 18, 2014

#22 Exverlobter

Damn, i even live in Germany, but don’t have enough money for the train to go to Frankfurt.

My friend, take a flight to Frankfurt. Isn’t flying dirt cheap in Europe compared to trains?

25. Ensign Ricky - February 18, 2014

I have no desire to ever visit California. Besides there are enough Californians over running the Flathead Valley in northern Montana.

26. crazydaystrom - February 18, 2014

Shatner, cool.
California, cool.
But no news is NOT good news. At least not for me. It’s almost as if another Trek film’s not gonna be made!
I WANT NEWS ABOUT STAR TREK 2016!! AND ABOUT HOW SPECIAL THAT 50TH ANNIVERSARY IS GOING TO BE!!!
It’s almost as if that’s asking too much!?! But Bad Robot, Paramount, CBS…SOMEBODY!!! THROW US A FRAKKIN BONE FERKRISSAKES!!!

Sorry. Venting.

And frustrated.

:-(

27. Daoud, The Sinfonian - February 18, 2014

William Shatner has his primary home in Los Angeles, California, MJ. His home in Versailles, Kentucky is for when he’s there working with his horses that are based there and race on the Louisville-area circuits.

“Go climb a rock.”

28. Phil - February 18, 2014

@25. I know I’ve pretty much been accused of spiting into the wind on this, but 2016 is already shaping up to be a very busy year in cinema. 2016 is going to be bracketed with Episode 7 at one end and Avatar 2 at the other. We know K/O already have commitments to Spider Man sequels and The Mummy reboot. Ms. Saldana is going to be busy promoting Avatar 2 in the last quarter, and with Superman 2, more X-men, and Marvel all over the calendar in the summer it’s going to be a very competitive year.

Let’s face it, Trek’s 50th is going to be a TV extravaganza, and really, that’s where it belongs.

29. Keachick - February 18, 2014

What about the other celebrities who appear in this commercial? Are they all originally from California or even the USA for that matter?

If we are going to be exact in these matters, MJ and others, perhaps we could look at just who are the true born and bred Californians among the latest Star Trek cast and whether they could *legitimately* be part of an advertisement revelling in the wonders of California. Let’s see, shall we?

Zachary Quinto – born Pittsburgh and brought up in same
Zoe Saldana – born New York and brought up in same
Karl Urban – born NZ and brought up in same
Simon Pegg – born UK and brought up in same
Bruce Greenwood – born Canada and brought up in same
John Cho – born South Korea and brought up in Los Angeles as a child (we’re getting close – just)
Anton Yelchin – born Russia and brought up in California from 6 months old (closer)

and last, but definitely not least –
Chris Pine – born Los Angeles and brought up in same. Not only that, his mother also born LA, California. CP for the win!!!

So there you have it. Chris Pine is only true Californian with a Russian and South Korean born respectively coming in a second/third. Yet William Shatner has lived and worked in California far longer than any of these three guys can lay claim to.

William Shatner can quite legitimately (as if he couldn’t) advertise the glories of the state of California as well, if not better, than many others!

30. Phil - February 18, 2014

@27. I think MJ was just venting. Shatner owned a home here, so if he established residency at some time, he’s fine. Besides, the old joke is that no one is actually from California, anyway. Everyone came here from someplace else.

31. Ahmed - February 18, 2014

@26. crazydaystrom & 28. Phil,

As MJ pointed out in one of his posts, Bob & Alex are world class procrastinators. They are so busy with all the various TV & movies projects that a project like Star Trek might be delayed for months & years. This happened with ST 09 which was supposed to come out in 2008 & with STID which was supposed to be released in 2012.

But I’m sure they will honor the 50th anniversary & will release ST XIII in 2016, on Saturday, December 31, 2016 to be sure :)

32. Ahmed - February 18, 2014

@29. Keachick

“William Shatner can quite legitimately (as if he couldn’t) advertise the glories of the state of California as well, if not better, than many others!”

Yep

33. crazydaystrom - February 18, 2014

31. Ahmed – February 18, 2014

As MJ pointed out in one of his posts, Bob & Alex are world class procrastinators.

But I’m sure they will honor the 50th anniversary & will release ST XIII in 2016, on Saturday, December 31, 2016 to be sure :)

Umm…….yeah

:-(

No doubt

:-(

*#@%$#*%$*!

34. MJ - February 18, 2014

@33

Yea, you can bet it will be a late 2016 release. It will come out at least two, if not three weeks before Avatar. Probably December 4, 2016.

@29

The ad should be either from people born in California or who currently live here as their primary home. Shatner fits neither of these criteria. His current primary home in KY.

There are plenty of actors/famous people who fit this criteria. Chris Pine Leanardo Dicaprio, Jennifer Anniston….I can name dozens more.

35. Marja - February 18, 2014

14 Dunsel, When my ex-husband and I watched STIV:TVH, and Chekov and Uhura arrived at the “Enterprise’s” berth, my ex said, in a loud whisper: “That’s not the Enterprise! It’s the wrong hull number.”

[rolly eyes] Jane’s Naval Warships strikes again ….

36. Daoud, The Sinfonian - February 18, 2014

@35 Ranger was a stand-in for Enterprise. :) Nowadays, it’s a simple fix with CGI. But back then, I don’t think the USN was willing to repaint Ranger to be as convincing!

I just like to think of it being in an alternate universe where Ranger and Enterprise have each other’s numbers.

37. Marja - February 18, 2014

11 Herbert, U.S. Coast Guard! Also on Alameda. In fact the USN was beginning the process to close Naval Station Alameda in the 1990s. But “Coast Guard Island,” Alameda, lives and breathes. As to Flori-duh’s politics, I live in one of the two most liberal counties in the state. Even so I’ll do what I can to unseat Rep. Sutherland [another “Tea Party” toadie].

12 Phil, I remember being gob-smacked at seeing a store owner in a Southern CA resort community using a waterhose to clean the sidewalk in front of his establishment. I still wish I’d asked him what the hell he was doing in the middle of a drought.

26 Daystrom, I SECOND THIS SO HARD.

31 Ahmed, 33 Daystrom, Maybe this is why they’ve delegated the ST3 script drafting to Two New Guys. They’ll simply have oversight, spending minimum time [sigh]. Yeah, 31 Dec sounds about right. Hellz, summer 2017 would still be within the anniversary year, dammit [if they don’t use Inclusive Year, which would be Sep 2015-Sep 2016, 50 years if you count em on your fingers and toes].

34 MJ, Oh “goody,” another hammering at the Box Office for Star Trek. Can they really be this dumb twice in a row?

38. Phil - February 18, 2014

@34. Anything that releases in December prior to Avatar 2 is going to get bludgeoned in the box office. I’d be shocked if any studio releases any movie in December 2016 with a budget north of 100MM. Assuming Bob can pull a script out of his @$$ sometime in the next sixteen months, a release in August-October makes the most sense right now. And again, setting aside that most everyone involved with STID is off on other projects right now….and with the one year anniversary of STID three months away there hasn’t been a peep out of anyone (credible) about the third installment. The safe bet continues to be some sort of commutation on TV at this point….

Okay, I get that Shat has his detractors, but come on now, a California purity test to be considered for a part on a tourism board commercial? Maybe they should produce their CA tax returns as well? Personally, I don’t fault anyone who has made their money for establishing residency somewhere where the taxation environment is a bit more friendly…

39. Ahmed - February 18, 2014

PSA: All your STID questions will be answered TOMORROW!

=====================
Star Trek: Khan #5

In Star Trek: Khan #5, overseen by Roberto Orci, the “climactic chapter of the origin of Star Trek‘s greatest villain” is presented.

“But how did he come to be called ‘John Harrison’? How did his vendetta against Admiral Marcus and Section 31 begin?”

http://www.trektoday.com/content/2014/02/star-trek-khan-5/

40. Phil - February 18, 2014

commemoration, damn it, not commutation….

41. Ahmed - February 18, 2014

@38. Phil – February 18, 2014

“@34. Anything that releases in December prior to Avatar 2 is going to get bludgeoned in the box office.”

Yes, they will stay as far away as possible from Avatar 2 & unless there is something new in the next few months, then we will not see ST XIII in 2016 at all.

42. Phil - February 18, 2014

From startrek.com…

http://www.startrek.com/article/first-look-final-khan-adventure-star-trek-khan-5

43. Phil - February 18, 2014

Want a tip off about what future Trek is going to look like? Take a peek at the artist renderings on the Paramount Park in Spain that supposed to open next year – yep, the future world looks like JJ’s Trek. Better get used to the alternate universe, folks, it looks like it’s going to be around for a while.

http://www.startrek.com/article/first-look-star-trek-in-paramount-park-murcia

44. MJ - February 18, 2014

@43

Looks awesome. So much better than the silly next generation derived monstrosity they used to have in Las Vegas.

Now this looks like Star Trek — looks like the future I want to be in!

45. MJ - February 18, 2014

@42

Thanks for that link. That closes the Khan issue once and for all — it shows his appearance was altered.

So much for Keachick’s and others crackpot theories on that not being “the Khan” in STID. We can put that nonsense to rest now.

46. MJ - February 18, 2014

@41 @34

You guys don’t understand holiday movie dynamics very well. If you have at least two solid weeks for a tent-pole before another tent pole comes out, that’s about standard practice these days…but, it’s better right before the holidays, and you will get better attendance when the other tent-pole comes our because so many people are off work between Christmas and New Years. 2 weeks before Avatar could be a great release date choice.

47. crazydaystrom - February 18, 2014

42. –
Thanks for the link, Phil. That concept art does look awesome. Always wanted to go to Spain. There may be a European vacation in my future.

48. Dswynne - February 18, 2014

Wow. I didn’t know that there are people here who visited Alameda, let alone the Bay Area. :-)

49. MJ - February 18, 2014

@48.

I love Alameda as well. Great. sort of a throwback, community of neighborhoods. I hope they never sell out to developers there, because that would be really prime real estate. The way the rich are gutting Santa Monica and other LA coastal communities now should be a lesson for places like Alameda.

50. Dswynne - February 18, 2014

@49 well, they just opened a Target near the Marina Village, and they are definitely building new homes in and around the old Naval Air Station. I think the city is mandated to put low income housing where the barracks and personnel housing used to be. But, I do hope that Alameda doesn’t change too much. At least the old Victorians between the Marina and the beach are kept prestige…

51. Phil - February 18, 2014

@46. Generally, I would not argue with that concept, though 3-4 weeks spacing does seem to be the norm. However, Avatar 2 isn’t going to be your average tentpole – the expectations for it are going to be immense, and it’s going to cannibalize box office from other movies. Likewise, Disney has high expectations for Episode 7. Anything less then a 3-4 month run into 2016 would be considered a disappointment. The folks who are scheduling over at Paramount learned their lesson last year, all tentpoles are not created equal. Trek will hold up fine against a B-Team Marvel release, but if you stick it in a crowded schedule, against A-List tentpoles, box office will suffer, particularly if buzz has the movie being geek friendly.

52. MJ - February 18, 2014

Phil,

Sherlock Holmes came out a week after Avatar in 2009, and made over half a billion dollars worldwide.

53. Ahmed - February 18, 2014

Guardians of the Galaxy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTZ2Tp9yXyM

54. I am not Herbert - February 18, 2014

SWEET! Thanks Ahmed! =D

GOTG looks awe-some-ly fun! =)

Rocket looks tuff! ;-)

55. Garak's Pride - February 18, 2014

So you guys like that silly Marvel stuff, but you think STID stinks?

Oh my, the irony?

56. Ahmed - February 18, 2014

@55. Garak’s Pride

“So you guys like that silly Marvel stuff, but you think STID stinks?”

Star Trek is one of the best science fiction franchises, so forgive us if we set our expectations way high only to be deeply disappointed by the story & the relentless action .

“Guardians of the Galaxy”, on the other hand, is as you put it a silly Marvel stuff. A movie that doesn’t take itself too serious, so I’ve no expectations whatsoever when I go see it. It is just another summer movie.

57. Ahmed - February 18, 2014

@54. I am not Herbert

“SWEET! Thanks Ahmed! =D”

You are welcome :)

58. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

Garak’s Pride: “So you guys like that silly Marvel stuff, but you think STID stinks?”

YES!! you may think it is “silly”, but Marvel makes it REALISTIC, they make it BELIEVABLE! =)

nu-trek, on the other hand, is stupidly fake… sorry… =(

nu-trek = trek for soul-less dummies and/or republicans =(

59. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

…I think (and hope) that the reason there is no news, is because they are actually considering a NEW RE-BOOT!! =)

…starting with new director / lead writer… ;-)

60. Basement Blogger - February 19, 2014

@ 22

I am not Herbert,

No one is trying to throw you under the bus. But you post a rambling article about fake snow with stuff about a one world government. You link to your name a site with paranoid stuff about one world governments. If it smells like a skunk, looks like a skunk, it’s a skunk. You want to tell people on this site your political views which are pretty paranoid. That’s proselytizing

But let’s look at your words, shall we? You write:

“(BTW: If you are not concerned about secret government (Illuminati) maleficence, you ARE dumb.)”

With your links to the above “information” and your comment that we should be concerned, that’s not proselytizing? LOL. You want to bring this stuff here on a story about William Shatner doing a promo for California tourism. WHAT DOES THE ILLUMINATI HAVE TO DO WITH STAR TREK, CALIFORNIA, TOURISM OR WILLIAM SHATNER?

And by the way, I am not dumb. I don’t believe the 9/11 truthers like the guys behind the site that’s linked to your name. Extraordinary, radical claims require extraordinary evidence.

Anthony Pascale frowns upon people using comments to espouse a political viewpoint. Trust me, I’ve had my comments deleted for taking a political stand. I criticized right-wingers on a Colbert-Stewart story and had them deleted with a warning. I don’t think you get an exception for paranoid theories about a new world order. Though, Bob Orci does because we love him. So please stop “informing” us of paranoid news with scientific evidence.

61. Basement Blogger - February 19, 2014

Oops. Let me correct my last sentence. in post 59. It should read:

“So please stop “informing” us of paranoid news WITHOUT scientific evidence.”

Emphasis added.

62. Phil - February 19, 2014

@53. Well, that was…underwhelming.

63. Ahmed - February 19, 2014

@ 62. Phil – February 19, 2014

“@53. Well, that was…underwhelming.”

lol, yep. I just hope that GOTG going to be more fun than that awful “Green Lantern”.

btw, there was a report that if GOTG was a hit, that a sequel will be released in summer 2016. That meant that Saldana is going to be super busy in the coming years.

64. Phil - February 19, 2014

@52 Thanks for illustrating my point – Sherlock Holmes was not a tentpole, and did well relative to it’s smaller budget, and a bankable A list actor. Look at the releases from Dec. 09 to March, 2010 – all at or under 100MM, no one was going to roll the dice that Avatar was anything less then what it ended up being.

Trek 13 needs to be a late summer/early fall release. Anywhere else in the schedule in 2016, and it’s going to get clobbered. BR and K/O have shown they can deliver an entertaining movie, but it’s a bit beyond their abilities to step it up a notch to do something with this material that would make it compete with the SW/Marvel/Avatar products. It’s a harsh assessment, but that is the state of the franchise at the moment.

65. Marja - February 19, 2014

56 Ahmed, I agree! Marvel movies are, to me, lotsa fun because of the snarky humor and the stars [especially Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Hemsworth]. I don’t take these movies at all seriously and to me they’re pure fantasy and teenboy stuff, which I can dig in small doses.

But not with my Trek. Snarky humor I can always enjoy, but relentless Marvel-hero relentless action is something I expect in Marvel, not Trek, movies.

I expect more thoughtful and less emotionally manipulative explorations of the humanoids’ / Federation’s moral presence and place in the galaxy; I expect some plausible science fiction; I expect the discussions and confrontations moral folk go through in maintaining a fair and democratic presence in their “world” / universe of existence.

66. Marja - February 19, 2014

58 Herbert, “nu-trek = trek for soul-less dummies and/or republicans =( ”

Oh, come on. Anyone who knows me knows I’m a devout Liberal, with a set of values I learned from TOS Spock and McCoy.

NuTrek hasn’t been able to explore many moral questions, primarily because they’ve tried to market it as a “tentpole” franchise, which I have always opined is a mistake for Trek. In STID, Orci and Kurtzman presented some interesting ideas of a cancer in government and unintentional complicity by well-meaning officers, but the messages got lost in all the action and the relentless drive to end it within two hours.

As many of us have said, Trek belongs on TV for that very reason, the leisure needed to tell good stories. (Imagine the possibilities for a more thoughtful and logical unfolding of the themes in STID – minus Khan – over a three-hour story arc, for example.)

64 Phil, I’ve been hoping for a Fall release for Trek3 because it would be the most logical. Give it time to build popularity with an early November release and expect more audience to have got the word by Thanksgiving.

If they even manage to get it out by 2016. Doubt is asserting itself.

67. Phil - February 19, 2014

@58. Marvel is fantasy, to that end all it needs to be is packaged well. It doesn’t matter what attributes get assigned to a super-hero character, because, as we have seen they can be easily changed to meet the needs of the story. The thing is, the science-fantasy that is presented in Trek really isn’t that different. So, everything else being equal, if you like Marvel science-fantasy, you should also like Trek science-fantasy. And yet, you don’t, and instead of offering up some evidence, you just declare that those who don’t agree are stupid, or Republicans. Well, I’m not stupid, and being a political moderate I can rattle off more then a few stupid Progressives for your amusement. The flaws in STID have been discussed plenty, however, the franchise does still continue to make an attempt at some level of continuity. If you feel otherwise, at least support that argument, as opposed to just resorting to name-calling.

68. MJ - February 19, 2014

“YES!! you may think it is “silly”, but Marvel makes it REALISTIC, they make it BELIEVABLE! =)”

Wow, do you really believe this?

You are not even close. Marvel makes it ENTERTAINING, has GREAT JOKES, and WELL-PACED movies with GOOD ACTING.

None of their stuff has ever come close to looking realistic to me. If you want realism in comic book movies, Nolan’s Batman series is what comes to mind. The Dark Knight Rises was basically Batman fights a crazy version of Bin Laden in NYC. That is somewhat grounded in realism, in contrast to the Incredible Hulk hitting Iron Man across three city blocks to the guffaws of you and Ahmed — that is unrealistic, but certainly entertaining.

I have NEVER seen a Marvel movie that I thought was BELIEVABLE. Sorry!

69. MJ - February 19, 2014

@64

We will have to agree to disagree. Two weeks before Avatar would be the perfect time to release the next trek movie. You control the box office for two weeks, especially with everyone else having this silly far of the Avatar bubble avoiding those dates, and then you still get great business over the holidays as Trek will be the second movie of choice against the probably nearly 3 hour running time of Avatar that will hog screens and time in the theaters.

70. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

VERY WELL SAID, Marja! =)

…but nu-trek is for-conservatives, by-conservatives =(

…or Iluminati operatives is more like it… =(

71. Ahmed - February 19, 2014

@68. MJ

Well, Iron Man & The Avengers are a lot more entertaining than STID for sure.

72. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

I am WELL aware of how these comment *used to be* censored…

beyond that, I WILL NOT engage your pointless accusations…

LL&P

73. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

OBVIOUSLY, I mean REAL in terms of presentation (where Marvel excels…)

RATHER THAN conceptualization (where nu-trek also fails miserably…)

74. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

Marvel is FAR AND AWAY the BEST FRANCHISE there is right now! D’UH!!

75. K-7 - February 19, 2014

Herbert.

Putting five single sentences into three separate and consecutive posts does not increase the chances of people agreeing with you here.

At the risk of using a politically incorrect term, it comes across as retarded.

just saying….

76. MJ - February 19, 2014

“Marvel is FAR AND AWAY the BEST FRANCHISE there is right now! D’UH!!”

Now I get why you are such an intellectual lightweight here, with all of the emoticons and silliness…no personal offense intended, my friend…I actually wish I could simplify my view of the world to this level, as it would cause me less stress.

77. Phil - February 19, 2014

@69. You are probably going to be flying solo on that train of thought…if we were discussing any other franchise not named Avatar/Avengers/Iron Man/SW I’d probably agree with you. If the powers that be do decide to go head to head with A2, they had better be leading with their A+++++++ game – if we get another episode of misplaced nostalgia, it’s game over. I appreciate your enthusiasm, as I think that way to many things would have to line up perfectly for BR/Paramount to pull it off.

Either that, or they make the next move for 75MM, keep the overall expenditure under 100MM, and pray to god that Jack Ryan established CP overseas enough that the foreign audience pays off in spades…

78. DiscoSpock - February 19, 2014

Herbert’s posts here reminds me of Cygnus’s great love for Star Wars. It seems weird to me how these guys love all of this silly fluff kind of movies, but yet are so hell bent on attacking JJ-Trek every chance they get?

And what’s the deal with all of Herbert’s political slams? I thought we all had a ground-rule here not to discuss political affiliations?

79. Phil - February 19, 2014

IANH…. Still pretty amazed that your response to any question is just a random selection of sentences.

I like roast beef on rye. =)
Snow does melt when heated. =(
Handcuffs are better binders then eggs. =(
What do you mean, I can be held for observation for 72 hours? =( =(

Free association. Kinda fun.

80. MJ - February 19, 2014

@79. I don’t get your negativity. STID was a weaker film than Trek 2009, yet it still, in spite of an inexplicably bad domestic marketing compaign, made more $$ than Trek 2009. The budget will probably come in at about $150M, this time, and if they just release a good, but not great movie, it will make $450M+ in any week that it is released that is at least two weeks different from another tent-pole release. The numbers of the last two don’t lie.

I don’t mind flying solo as long as I am right. The “it’s Khan folks” thing here was nearly a solo flight for me.

81. Ahmed - February 19, 2014

@78. DiscoSpock

“Herbert’s posts here reminds me of Cygnus’s great love for Star Wars.. It seems weird to me how these guys love all of this silly fluff kind of movies, but yet are so hell bent on attacking JJ-Trek every chance they get?”

Guess that you are not aware that JJ-Trek is actually Star Wars movies but within a Star Trek universe which make JJ-Trek a silly fluff kind of movies according to you :)

btw, Star Wars movies, at least the original trilogy, are not silly fluff kind of movies.

82. Ahmed - February 19, 2014

@80. MJ

Do you want the next movie to bombs at the box office or what ?

Anyone in his/her right mind will release ST XIII either in late summer or early Fall & keep it as far away as possible from Avatar 2.

83. MJ - February 19, 2014

@82. More than any other season, people see multiple movies over the holidays. You and Phil are simply wrong, but I certainly get your reasoning…I just don’t agree with it.

84. Phil - February 19, 2014

@80. Not sure how I’m being negative here…and I don’t think we are that far apart here, either – Trek has preformed well against the X-men, Marvel characters not named Iron Man or Avengers, and Fast & Furious (domestically). However, as far as movie franchises go, SW/Iron Man/Avengers are in a league of their own – and Avatar, being the most successful movie ever, is going to spawn the perfect storm of expectations for A2. Setting aside that I don’t think ST13 is even happening at all in 2016 – I’d much rather see a release date that ensures the best possible chance for success, and not toss the movie in to compete against what will probably one of the most successful movies ever. Go back and look at the release schedule around Avatar – for about a four month window around Avatar there were no major releases – several of those movies were successful, but they did a fraction of the box office Avatar did.

85. Phil - February 19, 2014

@83. Sorry, but my logic is sound. Schedule it for the best chance of success, and never, ever underestimate the competition. MJ, if you are in fact the voice of reason here, I’m sure it’s just a matter of time before some studio head schedules their next blockbuster to go head to head with Avatar 2.

86. Marja - February 19, 2014

70 Herbert, “VERY WELL SAID, Marja! =)

…but nu-trek is for-conservatives, by-conservatives =( ”

Erm, So you’re saying I [Marja] am a liberal, therefore NuTrek is not for me? So I “must” hate it? Or be a conservative? This makes no sense …. If you’re poltically opposed to STID explain to me why, and maybe I’ll get it, otherwise this sounds a bit … ad hominem. Or worse.

81 Ahmed, SWars are not silly fluff kinda movies once you get the “Hero’s Journey” aspect, but for the most part they struck me as bang-bang shoot-em-up when I first saw them. Whereas Trek never did, at least not until Abrams … [sigh].

87. MJ - February 19, 2014

“Go back and look at the release schedule around Avatar – for about a four month window around Avatar there were no major releases – several of those movies.”

That is why I brought up Sherlock Holmes. As you said, it may not have even been a tentpole (although I would argue that a major Sherlock Holmes movie could be considered a lesser tentpole), and it did over $500M — in fact, it made nerly $150M more that Star Trek did earlier in 2009.

Look at Christmas 2010 — a western, True Grit, made an astounding $250M up against Harry Potter and Disney’s Tangled — these three movies all did extremely well, because, people go out to the movies over the holidays and see at least two, if not three major releases.

Sorry if I overstated that you were being “negative”.

88. MJ - February 19, 2014

@86

Herbert must have seen a different movie that you and I saw, Marja.

Whether one likes STID or not, it is not open for debate that the analogy in STID with today’s world clearly repudiated the Bush/Cheney-like overreaching on terrorism and the dangers of losing your values in the process.

But let’s not confuse poor Herbert here with a someone who really thinks about these sorts of things. He applies more a Romper Room sort of analysis to movies, and his conclusions are based more on clever emoticons versus intellectual thoughts.

89. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

yeah, no, it’s not EXCLUSIVELY for conservatives… (or dummies…)

but beyond this, let’s not play semantics, ok…? or grammar…? thx… =)

90. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

other than that… Damn! you guys are in a lather, aren’t you?

Ease Up, Bro’s! =D

…it’s almost 4:20 here in beautiful Nor-Cal! <3

…so: "Later, Dudes…!" =P

91. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

yeah, MJ: basically, you don’t know what u r talking about… LATER! =P

92. K-7 - February 19, 2014

Herbert, isn’t it about time for your “weed break”?

93. Basement Blogger - February 19, 2014

@ 2, 22, 72

I am not Herbert,

I see you have not answered the question, “What does the Illuminati have to do with Star Trek, California tourism or William Shatner?” Your silence is deafening. Here’s the answer. The alleged Illuminati have nothing to do with Star Trek, California tourism or William Shatner.

Okay, maybe there is a connection between a secret society and Star Trek. In the Simpsons’ episode, “Homer the Great” Season Six, episode 115, Homer Simpson is inducted into a secret society run by Number One aka Patrick Stewart. This society runs everything including making Steve Gutttenberg a star. Here’s the secret song. Oh my God, Patrick Stewart is part of an international conspiracy to control mankind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZI_aEalijE

DEBUNKING THE FAKE SNOW THEORY POSTED BY I AM NOT HERBERT IN NUMBER TWO ABOVE.

But I digress. I Googled “fake snow” and found various news sites debunking this paranoid theory. Here’s one from Popular Science. Astronomer and science writer Phil Plait debunks the crazy fake snow theory in this article and video.

Where’s Kayla when we need her? Okay let me try to explain why people who light snow with a butane lighter don’t get much water. The water gets absorbed by the remaining snow. It turns into slush. Plait takes a snowball and puts it into a frying pan. It melts into water. As for the soot marks on the ball, that’s from the lighter.

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/why-fake-snow-doesnt-melt-because-its-real

SOME ADVICE TO i AM NOT HERBERT AND OTHER PARANOID PEOPLE

There was a time when man cowered in fear when the sun would go away for a short time. They thought there were evil forces behind it. But science taught us it was the moon moving between the earth and the sun. Fear can come from ignorance. It’s a darkness that cause man to behave illogically and not see the truth.

Science is the light in the darkness. Embrace it. And I believe you paranoid people will start acting logically.

Now don’t get me started on defending UFOs. :-)

94. Red Dead Ryan - February 19, 2014

Basement Blogger,

There is no use in trying to reason with I am not Herbert. “Herbert” here is a nut and a troll with nothing better to do than to hijack this thread and distract everyone from the actual topic at hand.

Also, Marvel movies are total fantasy. They aren’t realistic. They are essentially live action comic books. Especially when you have scenes like the one in “The Avengers” where Tony Stark is thrown off the top of his skyscraper and while on the long fall he calls for his suit which then speeds down and reaches Stark, magically wrapping itself around him just a few feet from the cement, alllowing him to survive an otherwise imminent death. That’s pure comic book fantasy right there, as entertaining as it was.

95. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

mellow out, dude…

nobody needs you to be a trek-nazi topic-police agent, ok…?

fear ONLY comes from ignorance… please don’t try to force yours on us…?

let others decide what is true… we don’t need you to try to dictate it, ok…?

96. DiscoSpock - February 19, 2014

@95

You are the one making all of the political comments. You reap what you sow. Stop whining when people naturally push back.

97. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

Red Dead Ryan is willfully missing the point… and he is being ignored…

98. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

Thanks Disco! …irrelevant, as always =(

i don’t try to dictate (other than reminding not to attack personally) ;-)

(shields up!) …resisting this childishness… ;-)

play nicely amongst yourselves now… =)

99. martin - February 19, 2014

Im having an other crazy vision of the next star trek film for its 50TH anniversary.

It’s got a st voyager ‘futures end’ and a galaxy quest vibe to it
kirk ‘chris pine’ is getting chased in las vegas by a Klingon ECT… and crash a star trek convention with William shatner on stage.

It will never happen of course but it would be great. LOL

100. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

Basement Blogger: …and I’ve said it before:

Science is JUST AS CORRUPT as religion! Wake Up!

You actually think our corporate owned scientists are telling you the truth??
or have your best interest in heart??

You are a chump and/or a shill… =(

101. Marja - February 19, 2014

93 Bernie, I loved your post “there was a time when man cowered in fear …” It seems it’s human nature to *find* something to fear. Though I suppose I’m not totally irrational in fearing some “evil forces” in our government ….

99 Martin, LOL I totally love it. Then Kirk comes back to the Enterprise and meets with the other officers and they try to figure out what the people of the past may know about the future:

“They have Starfleet and the Federation right …”

“They even have the Enterprise right …”

“They even know I’m an irascible doctor, for crissakes.”

“… But what is this ‘Star Trek’ of which they speak? And who are the ‘cast’ and what is ‘TNG,’ or ‘DS9′ …?”

100 Herbert, Come on, dude, not all scientists are “owned” by corporations or the government. I don’t see any government or corporate shills here, just folks with different opinions [mostly about Star Trek, by the way], Right Wingers, Left Wingers, and Moderates, TOS-only, TNG-forever, and JJTrek fans.

102. Dave H - February 19, 2014

#100

But YOU of course, we should all trust and believe…a guy who can’t write a complete paragraph to save his life, and uses kiddie language and symbols.

LOL

103. MJ - February 19, 2014

“100 Herbert, Come on, dude, not all scientists are “owned” by corporations or the government. I don’t see any government or corporate shills here, just folks with different opinions [mostly about Star Trek, by the way], Right Wingers, Left Wingers, and Moderates, TOS-only, TNG-forever, and JJTrek fans.”

Marja,

You shouldn’t waste you time. Herbert actually thinks STID supports Republican politics when any moron who has watched the movie can see that it completely repudiates the Cheney Doctrine — the war on terror, the Patriot Act, UAV’s, losing your principles in fighting terrorism, etc. etc. I am sure that even Ahmed, who doesn’t like STID, would concede this point.

There is no reasoning with this dude. I use to find him at least entertaining, but now he is just coming across as a grumpy malcontent with nonsensical political opinions. As a liberal Californian myself, I am embarrassed that this guy considers himself one.

104. Phil - February 19, 2014

@93. Man, and you thought arguing with me was counterproductive….hard to believe this is just a fluff piece on a Shatner sighting….

105. Who cares - February 19, 2014

I don’t care what anyone says this looks great, and Zoe looks way better in Green than she does in Blue.

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-news/guardians-of-the-galaxy-first-trailer-marvel-studios-chris-pratt-zoe-saldana-034858828.html

106. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

AGREED! GOTG looks awesome! =) Zoe included… ;-)

Ender’s Game (Netflix) was actually not bad… =|

…getting Riddick next =)

107. Ahmed - February 19, 2014

@106. I am not Herbert –

“Ender’s Game (Netflix) was actually not bad… =|”

Is it already out on Netflix, US or Canada Netflix ?

108. MJ - February 19, 2014

Yea, Guardians rocks — it looks like a great action-comedy. I hope it is as good as the trailer. Marvel’s “Captain America Into Darkness” trailer was pretty lame looking, so I was not expecting much from Guardians, but this looks surprisingly great.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
105. Who cares – February 19, 2014
I don’t care what anyone says this looks great, and Zoe looks way better in Green than she does in Blue.

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-news/guardians-of-the-galaxy-first-trailer-marvel-studios-chris-pratt-zoe-saldana-034858828.html

109. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

I am in Northern California (USA)

You in Canada? =)

110. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

disk that is, not streaming… sorry… =(

111. I am not Herbert - February 19, 2014

the problem with Ender’s Game though, is that you see the moral coming pretty much before you start the movie… ;-)

112. Ahmed - February 19, 2014

@ 110. I am not Herbert – February 19, 2014

” disk that is, not streaming… sorry… =(”

Oh, ok. I will probably rent it from iTunes then
But thanks anyway, and yeah, I’m in Canada.

I enjoyed reading the book when I was young & that is the only reason why I want to see the movie.

113. Vultan - February 19, 2014

Yes, it appears Martians too approve of Star Trek.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2563220/Spock-difference-Nasa-reveals-Martian-craters-look-like-Star-Trek-logo.html

Thanks to Buzz Cagney for sending me the link.

114. Who cares - February 20, 2014

@MJ. Huh, I kind of had the opposite reaction to the Captain America WS trailer. I truly despise the comic book storyline they are drawing this movie from (and the character of Winter Soldier) and I was not looking forward to watching a live action version of it, When I saw the trailers I saw the possibility that they had found a way to tell a good story from the mess of the original. Now I find myself at least somewhat optimistic about the movie, especially with The Falcon (one of my very favorite Marvel characters) so prominent in the trailers.

115. YourFriendlyNeighbor - February 20, 2014

In other words, “We’ve messed up our economy by catering to every fringe extremist liberal group out there & now we need your tourist dollars! How’s The Shat grab you?”

Where’s the news about TNG season 6 on Blu?

116. Marja - February 20, 2014

113 Vultan, That is so awesome.

117. Matt Wright - February 20, 2014

@ 115 – TNG S6 is expected in June. There’s no news, because there’s nothing official yet.

118. Basement Blogger - February 20, 2014

@ 100

I am not Herbert,

Well, I see we’ve resorted to name calling insults. Let’s count the score. You’ve called me dumb, (22) and now a “chump and a shill.” And okay, I implied you were paranoid. Of course, there ample proof of paranoia since you believe the snow in Atlanta is fake and part of a conspiracy, perhaps the Illuminati. (@ 2, 22) This fake snow nonsense has nothing to do with Str Trek, William Shatner or California tourism.

But as Red Dead Ryan pointed out above, you are a troll. (@ 94) There’s further proof of this when you posted a Mother Jones article that trolls are sadistic. No surprise with that article. (@ 16)

You see I’ve been trolled many times on this website. And some trolls like to admit their trolling. I use the expression used by one who trolled me and other Trekkers. “Know your trolls.” That was his admission. Posting that article is another not so subtle hint that you are a troll. It’s an admission. Of course there’s the evidence too. Post a wild, crazy comment to sow discord. Hence your post about fake snow which has absolutely nothing to do with Star Trek.

If you’re not a troll and believe that the snow in Atlanta is a fake and part of government conspiracy, I urge you to seek psychiatric help. Your comment accusing all scientists of being corrupt shows us that there’s a lot of paranoia. Seriously, your health is at risk here, since your doctor is also a scientist. Would you not see him if you were sick because you believe he’s part of an international conspiracy? If that’s the case, seek help.

119. Daoud, The Sinfonian - February 20, 2014

By volume, light fluffy snow is 10 times less dense than water. That’s why the usual ‘yardstick’ is that on average 10 inches of snow is equivalent in moisture to 1 inch of rainfall. (Can range though from 20:1 at cold temperatures to 5:1 near the melting point.)

Since the area it falls upon is the same, you don’t cube that 10x factor. Only the vertical dimension is shifted. So, your density is about a tenth for fluffy. So it should be no surprise when you apply heat to it, that it appears as if it disappears, through evaporation from the heat, and the condensed water’s surface tension quickly pulling in any melting snow.

Fake snow? Really? The only thing fake are the warmmongers and climaphrodites who insist human-caused global warming is the only source of climate change and thus want to take away all your carbon.

120. I am not Herbert - February 20, 2014

Basement Blogger: u r a spin-master… =(

121. I am not Herbert - February 20, 2014

Vultan: Cool! (Those are not all that will look familiar on Mars…) ;-)

122. I am not Herbert - February 20, 2014

…now here’s a Marvel adaption that already sux thanks to Fox:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/fantastic-cast-revealed-article-1.1621005

123. I am not Herbert - February 20, 2014

Daoud, The Sinfonian: “The only thing fake are the warmmongers and climaphrodites who… …want to take away all your carbon.”

just, WOW!! …I resist the urge to characterize you! (shakes head) =(

u won’t care until u r choking on your own poison (carbon) =(

(actually, u already are…)

alright, i’m outta here… u people are making me sick… =P

124. Basement Blogger - February 20, 2014

U.S.S. Trekmovie to science officer Kayla Iacovino.

Commander Iacovino:

Please debunk the theory that the snow in Atlanta is fake and part of a government conspiracy. This was posted in number 2 above. I’ve posted a Popular Science article on the “fake” snow in 93 above. But your opinion on this will help stop the insanity on this thread.

I also know your view on climate change. Since that is being brought up in the last two posts could you also comment on its cause and the consensus in the science community on the cause. Thank you,, Commander Iacovino.

125. Daoud, The Sinfonian - February 20, 2014

Herbert, we’re MADE of carbon. The only way to stop any human component of climate change… is to eliminate humans. You may be in favor of that although I’m not convinced it would have any effect on the Sun.
.
Legitimate climate scientists contemplate the effects of human activity on climate, without running around like chicken little. They compare it against other effects, namely, the true worry…. solar activity.

126. Ahmed - February 20, 2014

@124. Basement Blogger –

“Please debunk the theory that the snow in Atlanta is fake and part of a government conspiracy. ”

There you go:

Rachel Maddow:Ignoring science aids snow conspiracy theory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9hCNFp1BmU

127. Phil - February 20, 2014

Thank you, Rachel Maddow.

Oh, and all that fake snow has, in fact, melted. On to the next fake crisis.

128. Who cares - February 20, 2014

@Herbert. It is utterly impossible to predict if a movie will be good or bad based on casting reports, especially unconfirmed casting reports.

129. Ahmed - February 20, 2014

@127. Phil

“On to the next fake crisis.”

A fake tornado perhaps :)

130. Phil - February 20, 2014

@129. My money is on chemtrails. Nice cross-conspiracy promotional tie in, brought to you by your friends at Dow Chemical. Gotta be some logical explanation on how those GMO killer tomatoes seeds were fertilized…

131. MJ - February 20, 2014

This fake drought here is California is really a bitch. I wish that they would “turn off the Matrix” for a few days so that we could see the real wet world instead of this fake virtual drought world.

It sucks just being a battery for an AI factory, but hey, we move on with life as best we can…

132. Ahmed - February 20, 2014

@131. MJ

LOL

133. Daoud, The Sinfonian - February 20, 2014

@MJ, actually the universe was just created Last Thursday. Everything we think we know is fake. Well, except for the holy FSM. All praise the FSM. Ramen! Ramen!

134. Phil - February 20, 2014

Baaah…..baaaaaah

135. Ahmed - February 20, 2014

Speaking of our “fake universe”, everyone should watch these 3 movies:

The Matrix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8e-FF8MsqU

The 13th floor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtYdZkPmFoU

eXistenZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAdbdUt_h9M

Speak “THE TRUTH ” :)

136. Vultan - February 20, 2014

#129

The fake tornadoes here in Oklahoma are hilarious. Nothing but big muslin stockings, like in the Wizard of Oz.

And my tornado shelter—cardboard.

137. Red Dead Ryan - February 20, 2014

Did anyone think to check if the holodeck is functioning properly?

:-)

138. MJ - February 20, 2014

> Command: Delete Holodeck program / I AM NOT HERBERT

> Authorization Code: 0 0 0 DESTRUCT 0

> I AM NOT HERBERT removed from system.

139. K-7 - February 20, 2014

#138

Awesome.

But I fear that Cygnus may be carrying his Katra, and Dom may have recovered his cloned body.

;-0

140. MJ - February 20, 2014

@139

…and TrekMadeMeWonder will then perform the ceremony on Mount Silea?

LOL

…and his first words to his friends when he is revived will be:

:-)))
[-0
;-0
LOL
<)

141. Dswynne - February 20, 2014

@135 (Ahmed): Should “Inception” be included on your list?

142. Phil - February 20, 2014

Damn it, the safety protocols have been turned off!! The program can’t be deleted!!

143. Ahmed - February 20, 2014

@141. Dswynne

“@135 (Ahmed): Should “Inception” be included on your list?”

I think so, although it is about the dream world & not our artificial reality ;)

144. MJ - February 20, 2014

ah, the issues with the small size on ipod nano.

Just washed my nano with my clothes….dead now!

5 years ago, dropped one in the toilet…dead as well

Good times!

145. Marja - February 20, 2014

103 MJ, When the black helicopters come to get us, and put us on the UFOs to be examined by the Greys, who then take us to the Pleaides for re-programming by the Lizard People, who’ve been programming the Illuminati for hundreds of years …

Then we’ll know the conspiracists are right.

Until then …

LOL.

146. Marja - February 20, 2014

and, 103, I agree about the plot of STID. There was a lot in there, if only it hadn’t been crammed into two hours with too much obligatory fist-fightin’-rib-kickin’-head-crushin’ action, people might have actually gotten more out of its message ….
————————————————————————-
119 Daoud, I was right with you for your first two paragraphs, but your third one is just silly. No one says climate change is completely the fault of humans, but you must admit we’ve accelerated any natural process by leaps and bounds. And relax, no one wants to take all your carbon from you, for pete’s sake, those of us who recognize climate change also recognize it’s about two generations too late to combat it. At this point all we can do is disaster response, and I’m not sure we’ll even manage that.

147. Red Dead Ryan - February 20, 2014

#144.

My condolences to you and your ears. My iPod Nano went kaput over a year ago after owing it for just under four years. I loved that device….we would go pretty much everywhere together.

Luckily, my ears and I fell in love with a 16g iPod Nano the very next day. We’ve been almost inseperable ever since! :-)

148. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

“First they ignore you.

Then they ridicule you.

And then they attack you and want to burn you.

And then they build monuments to you.”

(General Executive Board Report and Proceedings [of The] Biennial Convention, Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America, 1914. Sometimes attributed to Gandhi.)

149. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

“All truth passes through 3 stages:

First, it is ridiculed.

Second, it is violently opposed.

Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

– Arthur Schopenhauer

150. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

“We can choose to be audacious enough to take responsibility for the entire human family.

We can choose to make our love for the world be what our lives are really about.

Each of us now has the opportunity, the privilege, to make a difference in creating a world that works for all of us.

It will require courage, audacity, and heart. It is much more radical than a revolution – it is the beginning of a transformation in the quality of life on our planet.

You have the power to fire the shot heard ‘round the world.”

(Werner Erhard, Graduate Review, February 1980.)

151. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Tribbles Replicas With Sound Up To 30% Off – Friday Daily Deal

http://www.entertainmentearth.com/hitlist.asp?spotlight=3449&utm_source=DailyDeals&utm_medium=promo&utm_content=DD_Tribble&utm_campaign=DD_022114

152. Phil - February 21, 2014

Show me one piece of evidence…. Bill Nye

Case closed.

153. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

…for supposed trek fans, you people have some small, closed minds… =(

…for supposed trek fans, you people are very intolerant of others views…

…but it obviously shows why you like nu-trek! small, hateful, fearful minds think alike! ;-)

LL&P

154. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

look people… i point to some info… i don’t tell you what to think of it… ;-)

ask yourself: why do you have to strike out against it so hatefully?

you fear that your denial of reality is cracking… (head buried in the sand)

155. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@154. I am not Herbert

“ask yourself: why do you have to strike out against it so hatefully?”

Not hatefully, we are simply having fun with the idea that our reality is a fake one.

Do you really believe that our reality is not real ?

156. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

…you are putting words in my mouth (spin)… ;-)

Ahmed, my friend, you are a thoughtful person… (not hateful) =)

but I will attempt to address your very interesting inquiry… ;-)

I believe that “our reality” is MUCH DEEPER than the average person is led to believe.

I believe that there is MUCH MORE to “our reality” than can be experienced with our physical senses (sensate reality)

I believe that our bodies are vehicles for physical experience (learning & evolution) – our spirits (souls) are eternal. We reincarnate until we have learned and evolved enough to transcend the wheel of karma, and graduate to a higher level of being.

at the risk of misunderstanding, 3rd dimensional experience IS an illusion… but this is VERY difficult to grasp without some understanding of the esoteric… ;-)

157. Phil - February 21, 2014

Evidence…E. V. I. D. E. N. C. E…. My kingdom for a piece of evidence….

158. Who cares - February 21, 2014

@Herbert. The problem is that you are not pointing out information you are regurgitating ridiculous hoaxes and laugable conspiracy theories. If you were dealing inactual facts and real world information and not some random stupid fantasies from mentally disturbed individuals things might be different. I mean come on half the crap you have been posting wouldn’t be believable to anyone who is not brain dead, its just dumb, and I agree with others, if you really believe this garbage then please seek immediate help.

159. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@156. I am not Herbert

“I believe that there is MUCH MORE to “our reality” than can be experienced with our physical senses (sensate reality)”

That I can agree with. Our physical senses are indeed very limited when it comes to experiencing the world. Our eyes can only see a limited range of the electromagnetic spectrum, same thing with our hearing. We perceive a tiny portion of the physical world & only by using instruments that we can see & hear beyond our own sense.

But I don’t believe in reincarnation or transcendence, that sound more like New Age religion to me, sorry :)

160. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

…also: I believe that our universe, and our galaxy is FULL of life! =)

I believe the number of stars with habitable planets is about 10%

life is the rule! not the exception! =)

the (4) major races on earth were seeded by (4) different ET races… as the traditional histories ALL indicate…

Life on earth is MUCH OLDER than they would have you believe… Mars was inhabited, but destroyed their environment like we are doing… the asteroid belt was a planet – Maldek, that was inhabited prior to Mars, they also destroyed themselves through hubris… many souls on earth are reincarnated from Maldek and Mars…

Atlantis DID exist, and had open contact w/ ET’s… they also destroyed themselves due to negativity…

We now have the opportunity to fix ALL of that bad karma, by realizing the truth of our existence, and creating a GOLDEN AGE of Love… =)

161. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@160. I am not Herbert –

huh ! Are you by any chance a Scientologist ?

162. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Ahmed: that’s what’s wrong with our world: people think that they just have this one life to live, and that they need to get the most gratification the can before it’s over… (selfishness)

it doesn’t matter to them how much they shit on the world, because to them, they will be leaving it forever.

If you do not reincarnate, then what?

non-existence? that’s a pretty depressing thought… (i reject it soundly)

“heaven/hell”? That’s pure fantasy… ;-)

are you a nihilist? what do YOU “believe” ;-)

163. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Most definitely NOT a Scientologist (are u being a smart-ass?) ;-)

I am most closely aligned with Taoism and Tibetan Buddhism =)

164. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

“Evidence…E. V. I. D. E. N. C. E…. My kingdom for a piece of evidence….”

http://www.amazon.com/Source-Field-Investigations-Civilizations-Prophecies/dp/0452297974/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393002900&sr=1-1&keywords=source+field+investigations

http://www.amazon.com/Synchronicity-Key-Intelligence-Guiding-Universe/dp/0525953671/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=1-2&qid=1393002900

165. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@ 163. I am not Herbert – February 21, 2014

“Most definitely NOT a Scientologist (are u being a smart-ass?) ;-)”

lol, not at all. But reading post# 160 reminded me of this:

“The Church of Scientology claims, based on its original study of cases and continuous affirmation from ongoing subjects, that a human is an immortal, spiritual being (termed thetan from the Greek word ‘theta’ meaning life force), that is in a physical body. The thetan has had innumerable past lives and it is observed in advanced Scientology texts that lives preceding the thetan’s arrival on Earth lived in extraterrestrial cultures. Based on case studies at advanced levels, it is predicted that any Scientologists undergoing auditing will eventually come across and recount a common series of events.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_beliefs_and_practices

166. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

hmmm… interesting…

re: “The Church of Scientology claims…”

aside from semantics, I’d have to agree with this statement!

really, all of the gnostic traditions agree on this… ;-)

167. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

http://tjresearch.info/overview.htm

“Basically, this theme involves discussions of the human spirit, its gradual evolution over innumerable lifetimes, its immortality and its eventual merger with and into the Great Spirit or Universal Consciousness or God, which the TJ refers to as Creation. A related theme teaches the distinction between human-like beings much advanced over us (called guardian angels and celestial sons), and Creation; these beings are of course commonly referred to as extraterrestrials (ETs) or aliens today.”

168. Red Dead Ryan - February 21, 2014

Herbert,

I think someone may have spiked your LSD. I suggest you return the rest to your local dealer and demand a full refund. :-)

169. boborci - February 21, 2014

let’s see… what should I work on today?

170. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

hmmm… getting a director? ;-)

Hey bob: watched Ender’s Game recently… it wasn’t bad! =)

171. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Red Dead Ryan: I suggest you STFU, pinhead… =(

172. NuFan - February 21, 2014

Sleepy Hollow!

But if you have a little time for Star Trek 3, that’s fine too.

173. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@169. boborci

I second what IANH said about Ender’s Game. I watched it last night on iTunes, it was a lot better than I thought. Hope that you guys will be able to do a sequel or at least a TV series.

Any news regarding a new director ?

174. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Red Dead Ryan:

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/3/8/5/1/6/stfu_and_gtfo-picard-star-trek-demotivator.jpg

175. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@168. Red Dead Ryan

Come on, dude, no need for personal insult.

You can disagree with “I am not Herbert”, like I do, without restoring to name calling, right ?

176. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Ahmed: you are gentleman and a scholar, I salute you! =)

177. MJ - February 21, 2014

Ahmed,

While I don’t like the name-calling, Herbert brings this on himself. He is both full of shit 90% of the time, and incredibly annoying as well…a brutal combination to have to read here constantly.

Ahmed, dude, you cut this clown way too much slack — just because you need “his vote” on your jj-Trek criticism. If Herbert were on “our side” on that ongoing discussion, you would have lit him up like a Christmas tree months ago like you did with K-7. Come on, you have to admit that there is a bit of truth in this?

178. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

yeah, i know, getting a director now would be putting the cart before the horse… but that’s how you guys do things… ;-)

fumble ’til the last minute… then SCRAMBLE!! (& COBBLE) ;-)

179. boborci - February 21, 2014

170.

before We finish the script? what for?

180. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@177. MJ

“I am not Herbert” remind me of myself when I was in high school. I used to read books on paranormal phenomena, Atlantis, ESP & all the other stuff that sounded strange & interesting to someone in my age.

I don’t know how old is he, but I have no problem with him posting things like that. You can simply ignore his posts or disagree without calling names. That is my point.

Beside, since Bob is here, we don’t want to scare him away by having another civil war at this moment, right :)

181. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

…try to get over your need to “take sides”? to be antagonistic?

…a little arguing is fine… let’s not piss on each other?

cool beans? =)

182. Red Dead Ryan - February 21, 2014

Ahmed,

I didn’t call anyone names. My comments were made in response to his wacko fantasies of grand delusion and paranoia.

And I find it interesting that you conveniently ignore the fact that he started all this by trolling and flaming. He accuses the rest of us of being “small – minded” and “intolerant”, yet he is doing his best to impose his religious and political views on this thread. “Herbert” has hijacked this thread, by going off topic by posting his signature rants ad nauseum.

Yet I see you encouraging his behaviour. This is hypocritical on your part.

183. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

well there already seems to have been some less-than-fruitful searching for a director in the recent past… (lol)

what for? ;-)

184. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

Any truth to the rumor that the budget will be cut this time around,and if that is true, how that will impact the script ?

185. boborci - February 21, 2014

depends where we shoot. LA was the most expensive place to shoot. If we shoot someplace with tax breaks, it could be about the same.

186. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@184. boborci

“If we shoot someplace with tax breaks, it could be about the same.”

You should come to Toronto then :)

187. Marja - February 21, 2014

169 BobO, STAR TREK 3

Please? Thnx

188. Phil - February 21, 2014

@164. Fail. The assertion is not evidence.

Evidence – The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

189. Marja - February 21, 2014

163 Herbert, I am most closely aligned with Taoism and Tibetan Buddhism =)

Yet Taoism tells us [in the Tao Teh Ching], ““Recompense injury with kindness.” “To those who are good to me, I am good; to those who are not good to me, I am also good ….”

I like “good” Herbert. I don’t care for the Herbert who says things like, it obviously shows why you like nu-trek! small, hateful, fearful minds think alike! and You are a chump and/or a shill… and “STFU and GTFO”

Dude, at times I really like what you say, although I don’t believe the conspiracy theories [which I had fun with above]. I do believe in spirituality, which you sometimes quote [and good on ya’]. Then you get hostile like some of the other people on this board.

I don’t get into name-calling and put-downs, and I don’t agree with the way some people do business here, calling people out and calling names. Please don’t join them.

190. Basement Blogger - February 21, 2014

Hello Bob Orci. Looking forward to Spider Man 2.

Old man alert!

I grew up with the old cartoon and then read the comics. Here’s the swinging theme song from the sixties cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o29VoxtsFk

Thirty million hits!

I get the lyrics wrong. Reminds me of Homer Simpson taking the song and putting it to his pet pig. Spider pig… spider pig….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=714-Ioa4XQw

191. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Marja: thank you for the good advice =)

I try to be good, but I AM imperfect. Please forgive me? ;-)

(if I do get ugly, i hope it is only in the act of “turn-about”)

…and, if I was being completely “Zen”, I would avoid this site, completely ;-)

192. Phil - February 21, 2014

@185. I guess we can infer from this that the hang up is the budget at this point….not just finding a more tax friendly venue.

193. boborci - February 21, 2014

192. You can infer it, but it would have nothing to do with reality. We don’t even have a finished script yet to budget.

194. boborci - February 21, 2014

190. Love Buble’s version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQJg5fP0U8

195. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

here’s a little tidbit of “evidence”: the undeniable effect known as the Bermuda Triangle is an Atlantean “portal” which has been left active since the ancient destruction of that great civilization… ;-)

196. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Riddick (Netflix) was not bad either… but pretty violent… =P

197. Basement Blogger - February 21, 2014

@ 194

Bob,

That’s so hip. I wish they played the whole version over the credits in 2002 movie.

Hey, two questions if you can answer them. They might be NSA secrets but here I go. They relate to Star Trek.

1) Are you writing the script with anyone else? There’s been stories of two writers that we have not heard of, working with you.

2) Will the fiftieth anniversary of Star Trek have any effect on the story and screenplay?

Of course, I want to make my usual request. More McCoy!!! I love his bleeding heart liberalism.

198. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@ 196. I am not Herbert – February 21, 2014

“Riddick (Netflix) was not bad either… but pretty violent… =P”

When you write Netflix, I get confused & think of Netflix streaming, not the DVDs service :)

The violence in Riddick was expected & it wasn’t that extreme IMO. Karl Urban was wasted in that movie, he was in it for a very short time.

199. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@197. Basement Blogger –

“Of course, I want to make my usual request. More McCoy!!! I love his bleeding heart liberalism.”

I second that, more of Kirk-Spock-McCoy troika please

200. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Heh! sorry to decoy you again! =D

yes, you are right on all counts… the bounty hunters were good!! =)

Karl Urban’s little part DID make a nice bridge to the rest of the Riddick-verse… ;-)

201. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

not sure if McCoy is “liberal”, but he is definitely a progressive humanist! =)

202. boborci - February 21, 2014

197. Yeah, I’m writing it with a great team you can look up online. They are true fans and we’ve been having a good ole’ time.

Will 50th affect story? Yeah. More pressure;)

203. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

Who knows, Urban might get a significant role in Riddick 4.

Of all Riddick movies, “Pitch Black” remains the best one in the entire series.

204. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@ 202. boborci – February 21, 2014

“Yeah, I’m writing it with a great team you can look up online.”

Actually there is very little information online about J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay. The only thing that I found about them was a review of their unproduced script “Goliath” & various reports about other unproduced scripts .

If you have a link to an interview with them, that would be great :)

205. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

I really liked the Necromongers… would like to see more of them, including Karl Urban… ;-)

206. boborci - February 21, 2014

204. Hmm… don’t know if they’ve given any interviews. They are young writers and hopefully this will be the first thing they get produced. I like working with veterans but I also like working with new talent with new points of view, and I’m glad we found them. Hope you will be, too.

207. I am not Herbert - February 21, 2014

Hey boborci: any chance of a new production designer? the guy who did the latest Klingon stuff looks pretty good… the production design was pretty good on Ender’s Game… better lighting at least? thx! =)

208. K-7 - February 21, 2014

“Ahmed, dude, you cut this clown way too much slack — just because you need “his vote” on your jj-Trek criticism. If Herbert were on “our side” on that ongoing discussion, you would have lit him up like a Christmas tree months ago like you did with K-7. Come on, you have to admit that there is a bit of truth in this?”

So true, MJ! ;-)

But I don’t mind facing Ahmed’s wrath — I’ll “take one for the team” any day. And besides, if Ahmed is able to vent his nuTrek frustrations on me, then perhaps he won’t have any anger left for what we all would dread happening here..drum roll….

“Orci-Ahmed II — The Main Event”

Just kidding, Bob and Ahmed. :-)))

209. Basement Blogger - February 21, 2014

@ 206

Bob, thanks for speaking well of the new writers and thank you for answering my questions. It’s helpful because I criticized Paramount for giving the franchise to two new guys that none of us have heard of. It’s good to hear that the two new guys are fans.

Okay, I get yelled at for this suggestion. But I dream big. Here’s my idea for who should sit in the director’s chair after the script is done.

He’s a friend of J.J.’s. And you’ve worked with him. I’ve looked at his IMDB page and he looks free to direct a movie to be released in 2016. ….. Drum roll. Cue theme from E.T.

Steven Spielberg!

Okay, here’s how you pitch it to him.

“Steven, you’ve not been to outer space in a movie. E.T. and Close Encounters don’t count since they were shots of ships going into outer space. And you don’t want me to bring up Indian Jones 4 and that refrigerator and the monkeys…. Here’s your opportunity to visit strange new worlds. To boldly go where no director has gone before!!! (Okay, a little over the top.)

How would you like to direct the greatest science fiction franchise ever created by man. A franchise that’s stood the test of time. That’s fifty years old. It’s led to innovations such as the cell phone. It’s inspired NASA scientists. This franchise has cured male pattern baldness. (Sorry, got carried away.)

How would you like the keys to the U.S.S. Enterprise, Steven?”

210. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@208. K-7

““Orci-Ahmed II — The Main Event””

LOL

211. Ahmed - February 21, 2014

@ 206. boborci – February 21, 2014

“I like working with veterans but I also like working with new talent with new points of view, and I’m glad we found them.”

It is very commendable that you are giving chance to new & young writers, hopefully they will be up to the task.

“Hmm… don’t know if they’ve given any interviews. They are young writers and hopefully this will be the first thing they get produced.”

Maybe they should do their first interview with trekmovie :)

212. Marja - February 21, 2014

194 BobO, Buble makes it cool all right! He should be featured in the new SM movie :-)

209 Bernie, I SECOND THAT! How they laughed here when I suggested it a few months back, but Spielberg was a JJ mentor, and it’d be a great and lovely turnabout! And an honor for Trek’s 50th. ” This franchise has cured male pattern baldness.” LOL, didn’t work for Sir Pat, but he doesn’t care. If only it could cure fan hositilities ….

213. Who cares - February 21, 2014

@Boborci. Hey Bob, glad you could find time to come by, hope things are going well. I have been wondering ever since hearing that Alex got the nod from Sony to direct Venom if maybe he was interested in directing the next Trek as well, but I know you can’t tell me. I would welcome Alex as the director and hope that if he is interested that he gets it.

I also wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed the first season of Sleepy Hollow and how much I look forward to the next season. I’m not quite sure that I like what happened with Jeremy, but the clues were there the whole time. Great job from everyone and I can’t wait for more.

214. CmdrR - February 21, 2014

185 – bob orci,

If you film in Georgia PLEASE let me know. I live and work here.

Great tax breaks.

This time, Kirk can climb Stone Mountain. Spock in rocket boots can save him when he falls off Traveller’s nose.

215. boborci - February 21, 2014

213 anything is possible

216. K-7 - February 21, 2014

Maybe film in both Georgia and the Ukraine?

217. Jack - February 22, 2014

IAH. We have just the one life to live — but that doesn’t mean one has to live it selfishly. You can do good things even without the invented carrot of heaven/the next life.

Bob: Does the studio or the general public really care that it’s Trek’s 50th, as far as releasing this film goes? It’s a chance to sell more products, books and DVDs to fans, sure… but I can’t see it being a great film marketing tool for the general public (or to fans, we’ll see it anyway).

218. DiscoSpock - February 22, 2014

@217

Wow. Finally, to conclusively hear that that there is no life beyond this one. And from a poster on Trekmovie.com at that.

(sarcasm)

219. I am not Herbert - February 22, 2014

DiscoSpock: FULL AGREEMENT! =D

…if i understand you correctly? (lol) ;-)

LL&P =)

220. I am not Herbert - February 22, 2014

Jack: MUST DISAGREE… the “one life to live” outlook leads to selfishness, unless one is enlightened…

but then, if one is enlightened, “one life to live” makes no sense whatsoever…

…it’s only logical ;-)

221. I am not Herbert - February 22, 2014

…yeah, they are attempting to pander to “the fans”, so yeah, the 50th is a HUGE opportunity… ;-)

TOS Merchandising should be PRIME feeding ground…

we’ll see if nu-trek can take advantage… i foresee another cluster-trek ;-)

222. boborci - February 22, 2014

217. Good point. u mightbe right. even if true, however, we will not be able to stop unafiliated main stream media from bringing it up, even if any of us or the studio did not want to.

223. Ahmed - February 22, 2014

@222. boborci

Regardless of the 50th anniversary, you are still aiming for 2016 release, right ?

224. Jack - February 22, 2014

218. Got the sarcasm, thanks. I am not Herbert had raised the question above. Of course it’s just my opinion. I just think it’s not necessarily incompatible with living a good life and doing good things. That’s my opinion, he disagrees.

I don’t believe in heaven or literal reincarnation (I wish both were true, but how do we know? — I’m more of an agnostic, I believe that I can’t know), but I believe I must do good while I’m here, in order to be happy and make my life mean something. Isn’t Trek about philosophy? I think we should be discussing this stuff.

It’s fascinating. i don’t see the logic in ascribing supernatural explanations to life after death, but I understand the reasons for it — and I don’t agree that having only one life to live means we have to live it selfishly. You can realize that life inherently has no larger meaning but still decide to impart meaning on your one life. We’re responsible for how we treat others, how we leave the world and how we treat ourselves. Yes, my opinion. Again, Isn’t religion and philosophy all about trying to make sense of what is the best way to live? And why we’re still debating it today?

Whatever belief brings meaning and purpose to life and doesn’t harm others is generally good, in my opinion.

——-
I just found a STID story posted today ( a repost)…

Interesting. I know some (including me) complained that the political allegories in Trek Into Darkness were pretty obvious and didn’t have much new to say (drones are bad, killing a man without a trial is bad, abandoning our principals is bad, going to any length to win a war is bad, starting a war to further our best interests is bad, private defense contractors and secrets and conspiracies are bad, engineering terror events is bad, etc., making unilateral decisions is bad, abandoning diplomacy is bad, becoming a terrorist to fight terror is bad, putting security over law is bad, acting without thinking is bad, aligning ourselves with oppressors and killers is bad, supporting oppressors and killers as long as it benefits us is bad, striking first is bad, controlling out enemies and allies by threats is bad, holding people hostage is bad, believing might is right is bad, etc.) and were made at the expense of the characters acting like actual human beings…

And maybe not living in the US has blinded me to the fact that none of this is obvious to a lot of people:

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2014/02/22/4-ways-star-trek-into-darkness-shills-for-surrender-in-the-war-on-terror/

“4 Ways Star Trek: Into Darkness Shills for Surrender in the War on Terror”

Yes, it’s from a right wing blog. It includes the statement:

“On a mission to hunt down the murderous Harrison (Cumberbatch), Spock (Zachary Quinto) tells the hotheaded Kirk (Chris Pine) that assassinating the terrorist — whose lethal acts Kirk and others have eyewitnessed — would be obviously wrong. Director J.J. Abrams and his team of hack screenwriters (Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Damon Lindelof) are striking a stance on the demise of Osama Bin Laden so extreme that no one to the right of Michael Moore would dare utter it.”

Good Grief. I forget that people deeply believe this stuff.

Interesting day here today, thanks to I am not Herbert.

Oh, and the belief in the fake snow thing is pretty amazing — but understandable if you don’t normally see snow. Very little water is produced when it melts, as I understand it, partially because there’s not that much water in snow in the first place (try melting snow on the stove, it takes a lot to fill up a pot), it sublimates into the air, and some of the melting water gets absorbed by the rest of the snow.

And anyone who points this out on a the internet is called a mindless sheep
who can’t think for themselves.

Again, just my opinion, but conspiracy theories are popular because they’re easy — anybody can believe them and they require only observational evidence and existing experience (I’ve never heard of a fire melting steel, therefore tower x was brought down by explosives; they didn’t test the rubble for explosives, therefore they used explosives to bring it down; the moon landing photos don’t look like the photos I take on vacation, therefore it was faked). In fact, they show that the believer is smarter than the experts because they’re able to recognize the obvious.

225. Jack - February 22, 2014

222. True. Any sense of whether mainstream film fans are turned off by Trek lore and history? It’s always assumed that’s the case. I’d wonder whether it would be turn people away, expecting a nostalgia-fest. Although it worked for Bond.

226. I am not Herbert - February 22, 2014

Jack: WOW! EXCELLENT POST! =)

(glad I could stimulate…) ;-)

Moon Landing: another can of worms… ;-)

they couldn’t show the real video feed because we were MET on the moon ;-)

227. Ahmed - February 22, 2014

@226. I am not Herbert

“Moon Landing: another can of worms… ;-)”

I guess that you believe in every single conspiracy theory out there :-)

228. Ahmed - February 22, 2014

@ 225. Jack – February 22, 2014

“Any sense of whether mainstream film fans are turned off by Trek lore and history? It’s always assumed that’s the case.”

This ain’t your father’s Star Trek!

That was the MAIN reason they rebooted the whole bloody thing with Star Trek 09, to free themselves from that burden.

229. Red Dead Ryan - February 22, 2014

Here’s my conspiracy theory:

“I am not Herbert” is, in actuality, Herbert. In fact, he is so much “Herbert” that he may as well just trademark the name as a lot of soon-to-be parents are now virually not likely to name their sons Herbert. :-)

230. I am not Herbert - February 22, 2014

Ahmed: …again with pinning “belief” on me… ;-)

but more directly: I try not to form “belief” about anything (!) ;-)

but i would say that there probably is truth behind most of what they would have you “believe” is “conspiracy theory”… , my friend ;-)

…have i told u about Bush Sr. running the CIA black ops unit that assassinated JFK?

231. I am not Herbert - February 22, 2014

…no, WE DID land on the moon, they just couldn’t show the live video…

(seriously)

232. I am not Herbert - February 22, 2014

Red Dead Ryan: heh! heh! =)

good one! (seriously) =)

you made fun of me, but not in a hurtful way.. Kudos! my friend! =)

233. Red Dead Ryan - February 22, 2014

virually=virtually — DAMN TYPOS!!

#232.

Glad you enjoyed it! Peace! :-)

234. Mad Mann - February 22, 2014

@ 194 boborci

Holy Crap. That Spider-Man cover by Michael Buble is amazeballs! I’m a big Buble fan, but I never knew he did this. Awesome sauce!

BTW: How’s that Van Helsing thing coming? I’m actually more stoked for that than anything else. I just hope it’s a true sequel to Stoker’s Dracula novel instead of that Stephen Sommers movie.

235. boborci - February 22, 2014

Madd Mann

Maybe Buble can do cover song for Van Helsing;)

236. CmdrR - February 22, 2014

235- boborci,

Just too easy; can’t resist…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMjex7AfTsg

237. Marja - February 22, 2014

222 boborci, why wouldn’t y’all want to bring up the 50th anniversary of Trek? Is it a disincentive to the younger generations? Do they fear being turned into nerds?

[do not get it]

238. Marja - February 22, 2014

228 Ahmed, did you mean they just wanted to chuck it, or did you mean that it would have taken wayyy too much time ‘splainin’ the old Trekverse?

I liked a lot of what they did, but hmmm, operatic Nero. And Harrison turning into Khan [shakes head]. And plot holes. But the latter are common in Trek movies.

230 Herbert, “…have i told u about Bush Sr. running the CIA black ops unit that assassinated JFK?” Wasn’t that a theory espoused by Jim Garrison in Oliver Stone’s movie? Not that I’d put it past Bush, mind you.

239. boborci - February 22, 2014

237. Not what I said. I speak carefully these days.

I am saying that we will be accused of 50th anniversary money grab, and all I was saying is that even if we wanted to pretend it was just any old year, main stream press would make story out of it, which they will, and we will be accused of cynical money grab.

240. CmdrR - February 22, 2014

Did someone accuse the Bond folks fo money grabbing during the latest flick, which was loaded with references right down to a vintage 1962 bottle of booze. (MaCallan whiskey.)

WHY would anyone complain about a 50th “grab” for anything other than audience members? And why would that be a complaint? It’s not like you’re going to put a woman in her Starfleet underoos just to get men into the theatre… or… urm…

Anyway, some of us like the easter eggs, especially the more subtle ones. My brain remembers in the theatre hearing a speaker announce that Kirk would be using the shuttle siezed in “that mining incident last month.” On the DVD, it’s “Mudd’s shuttle.” I liked the more subtle one… But, my point is that easter eggs could go over well in a 50th Anniv. film.

Would love:

–Shatner’s voice, as Pine-Kirk listens to an audio of Masefield’s “Sea-Fever.” “All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by…” THAT would be awesome!!

–Nichelle Nichols just out of frame helping Zoe pick out a pair of jade hoop earrings. (Again, subtle is wonderful.)

–The name “Roddenberry,” “Coon,” or “Justman” showing up on a screen or a shuttle or some such…

It can be cool!!!

241. boborci - February 22, 2014

240. Because Trek fans are different. And you know it. It has already come up on this board!

242. CmdrR - February 22, 2014

boborci — If you mean Trek fans are different — as in they kvetch about EVERYTHING, I agree. That’s no reason not to look for more GOOD opportunities to enjoy 50 years of great stories. You’ve been doing it. If it’s a vote, I vote for looking for really prime choices in 2016.

243. MJ - February 22, 2014

“…have i told u about Bush Sr. running the CIA black ops unit that assassinated JFK?”

Have I told you about my past history in drug running in El Salvador for Maggie Thatcher and Casper Weinberger?

244. I am not Herbert - February 22, 2014

MEGA SH*T-STORM WARNING: read with caution…

yes, and i’ve already told you that “W” Bush is the “anti-christ” (Mabus)…

now here’s the big heresy: the “false religion” spoken of in Revelations is…
you guessed it… christianity… sorry =(

don’t get me wrong, I love “jesus”, but his story and teachings have been falsified, to promote unconsciousness… =(

245. MJ - February 22, 2014

@244

If there is an Antichrist, he’s probably some loser on the internet who speaks in rapid-fire single sentences with emoticons, and always laughs at his own jokes.

246. Marja - February 22, 2014

239 boborci, I didn’t realize you were referring to the media’s perception of a money grab.

“Scrrrew them!” Star Trek should make money, it’s a great concept with wonderful and durable characters.

“James Bond’s 50th” was all over Vanity Fair and other magazines … I suspect Trek won’t be. Maybe … One can hope. Trek deserves celebration for more than the presence of us devoted nerds!

Glad you and the “new two” are among us [smile].

247. MJ - February 23, 2014

Bob,

I think Paramount’s marketing department is a travesty. You guys deserve better.

If they were doing their job, you wouldn’t be stressing over this money grab perception worry.

248. Jim Nightshade - February 23, 2014

bobs a fan like us….he will give our fave franchise the proper respect and nods it deserves for the 50th…i trust you guys…it is to paramounts advantage to promote the 50th…how about a saving mr sulu storyline…gene r. has to be convinced that trek is worth making into a movie so bob takes him to vegas and on the star trek experience ride bob wins 20 bucks from alex when he gets gene to ride the shuttle…gene says treks not about saving spock…its about saving mr sulu….
hmmmm nope sounds a little bit too familiar for some reason…:)

249. Vultan - February 23, 2014

#247

Don’t forget they needlessly worried about the Khan racial perception, and that came back to bite ‘em in the back pockets. Don’t know why they would worry about the 50th anniversary. Bond and Dr. Who both benefited from theirs.

250. Tom - February 23, 2014

No problem Bob. You can handle the pressure! Sleepy Hollow, Muumy, Spiderman etc. Just help the nubie writers through it. As for the 50th use it as a positive. When you look at it all studios movies are a money grab. Get Shatner and Nimoy and they will eat up all those questions

251. I am not Herbert - February 23, 2014

..it is only a “money grab” if the product is shoddy, but taking advantage of hype/timing… a nu-trek hallmark! ;-)

252. I am not Herbert - February 23, 2014

A Shadow Government Controls:

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/22216-a-shadow-government-controls

253. Who cares - February 23, 2014

@249. You know you and a few others keep making comments about this here, but looking around and doing multiple google searches on the matter turns up less than nothing in the way of people complaining about Khan’s ethnicity (use of the word race is incorrect as there is only one race, Human). Seriously I found a grand total of one story that even mentioned ethnicity, and it was from a site called bitchmagazine, so obviously it is devoted to people who just want to complain whether they have a reason or not.

Beyond that complaining about any actor’s ethnicity in any role, whether that is Cumberbatch as Khan or Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm (BTW my white co-worker and his black half-sister really like the Fantastic Four casting rumors), is just a complete nonsequiter from Trek fans who bitch constantly that JJ doesn’t understand the “message” of Star Trek. Now granted this supposed message of Trek is based on Gene’s so called vision of Trek, which in reality was the same as Zefram Chocrane’s vision for Warp drive, ie money, women in bikinis, and retirement to a tropical island.

I will not continue arguing this point, I have already wasted more time on it that it is worth.

254. Vultan - February 23, 2014

#253

I was referring to Orci’s own response to the subject: “Basically, as we went through the casting process and we began honing in on the themes of the movie, it became uncomfortable for me to support demonizing anyone of color, particularly any one of Middle Eastern descent or anyone evoking that. One of the points of the movie is that we must be careful about the villain within US, not some other race.”

And yes, it was a topic of discussion. Not as controversial as Johnny Depp as Tonto, but there still plenty of things written about it—in more than one place, I’m sorry to break it to you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Into_Darkness

255. Vultan - February 23, 2014

And sorry though for beating a dead horse, that was not my original intent. Just pointing out this creative team seems to worry a bit too much about public perceptions.

How can the 50th anniversary be anything but a positive thing? Cash grab? Nonsense. Just make a good movie.

256. I am not Herbert - February 23, 2014

yeah, Johnny Depp sucked as Tonto: Cap’n Jack w/ bird on head… =P

good thing he didn’t have much to say… ;-)

that aside, Lone Ranger was actually not bad! =)

257. I am not Herbert - February 23, 2014

Khan as a british white guy was WAY MORE insulting to me than “demonizing a non-white guy”… LOL! =P

258. I am not Herbert - February 23, 2014

…anyway… it’s a BS word-bite excuse… they COULDN’T GET anyone better suited (racially or otherwise) for the role, than C-batch… =P

259. Marja - February 23, 2014

247 MJ, I SECOND THAT — I’ve been saying since the opening that the US marketing of STiD was a damned shame. Lots of missed opportunities they could have grabbed using the beautiful “Kirk / Uhura / Spock / Khan triptych-plus-one [quadditch?] as standee posts in theatre lobbies, and running the “Khan assesses the crew” bits on TV instead of just over the net.

I roll my eyes every time I think about their “marketing effort” [NOT] in the US.

Also…? NEXT TIME PLEASE OPEN WORLDWIDE ON THE SAME DAY.

260. Who cares - February 23, 2014

@Vultan, So your proof is a wikipedia article? Even if it was true I wouldn’t believe wikipedia, you probably edited in your so-called proof yourself, or some other obsessive fanboy just like you did.

You want to prove your so-called point to me then try giving me something from a reputable source, you say its out there, and I say I have looked and can’t find anything reputable, nothing but bitching from people who take this fictional world far too seriously, no serious news pieces anywhere, not even from India. Not one thing indicates to me that this was ever an issue for anyone except the basement dwelling, obsessed, stupid morons who claim JJ doesn’t understand the message of Trek while pissing on the very idea they claim to be Trek’s message.

261. Ahmed - February 23, 2014

@260. Who cares

“no serious news pieces anywhere, not even from India.”

1) Why not pick an Indian to play Khan in Star Trek?

http://www.firstpost.com/bollywood/khans-white-in-star-trek-and-heres-why-were-glad-771065.html

2) Star Trek: Into Whiteness

http://www.racebending.com/v4/featured/star-trek-whiteness/

3) The Real Problem with Benedict Cumberbatch’s Villain Role in Star Trek 12

http://io9.com/5907467/the-real-problem-with-benedict-cumberbatchs-villain-role-in-star-trek-12

Perhaps it is you who needs to leave BR basement :)

262. Ahmed - February 23, 2014

@259. Marja

“Also…? NEXT TIME PLEASE OPEN WORLDWIDE ON THE SAME DAY.”

Absolutely, what they did with STID was a stupid move on their part. Either they released worldwide in the same day or release it first in North America.

263. Ahmed - February 23, 2014

@ 247. MJ – February 23, 2014

“I think Paramount’s marketing department is a travesty. You guys deserve better. If they were doing their job, you wouldn’t be stressing over this money grab perception worry.”

Well said, MJ.

264. Cygnus-X1 - February 23, 2014

I’m not sure what the argument is about, but for what it’s worth, Wikipedia articles that are properly sourced have footnotes with links to the sources cited in the article. Articles lacking proper sourcing will say so at the top of the page.

The Wikipedia article linked by Vultan in #254 has a footnote with this link: http://trekmovie.com/2013/05/20/sticky-into-darkness-open-week-thread-polls/#comments

265. Cygnus-X1 - February 23, 2014

Oh, I see now.

Well, my own opinion, as I have said, is that I had absolutely no problem with Cumberbatch as Khan. Though, I would agree that it wouldn’t seem to make much sense worrying about casting another Hispanic actor as Khan (like Benicio del Toro and the Venezuelan actor with whom the production was negotiating previous to Cumberbatch), being that the original actor who played Khan was obviously Hispanic.

I could see some people complaining about a Middle Eastern actor playing Khan—though I think it would be wrong of them to do so, I mean, especially considering the character’s name—but, I would not have let that stop me from casting a good Middle Eastern actor in the role. If anything, it would have brought more press and attention to the movie, and such a casting choice would have been easily defensible, thus placing the production on the winning side of the controversy.

266. Ahmed - February 23, 2014

@265. Cygnus-X1

Casting BC as Khan was the least of my problems with STID.

Who cares said that he didn’t see any “serious news pieces anywhere, not even from India” about that issue, so I provided him with the links.

267. Cygnus-X1 - February 23, 2014

In a way, it was actually better to cast Cumberbatch, being of different ethnicity to Montalban, as Khan. Whether the production intended to or not (and their previous considerations for the role indicate not), casting Cumberbatch served to greatly diminish or eliminate (I didn’t see any) comparisons to Montalban. If the production had succeeded in casting del Toro, I’d bet there would have been many more comparisons to Montalban, and del Toro may even have felt the need to try to emulate or imitate Montalban’s performance. By contrast, Cumberbatch’s Khan did not resemble Montalban’s in the least, nor did try to.

268. Cygnus-X1 - February 23, 2014

That said, the smartest move of all would have been not to recycle the best of Trek-in-film in just their second movie….or, at all.

269. Mad Mann - February 23, 2014

@235 boborci

haha. That’s what I get for asking a cheesey, fanboy question. I should know better.

270. MJ - February 23, 2014

Del Toro should have been cast as Khan, and it should have been with fanfare at ComiCon 2012 where Del Toro and Pine appeared with JJ, Shatner and either Montelbahn’s widow/one of his kids or they guy who played Joachim in WOK….and such would have started a mega 10-month marketing campaign where their fully were open about the return of Khan, and the marketing campaign served as to remind everyone of the original, and prepare all of us for STID being a love letter to WOK. Then you have a Superbowl add in early 2013 focusing on the return of Khan. The buildup would have been huge, and we would have been more prepared and accepting of the movie…especially given that Del Tor would have played a more convincing Khak like what we saw in Space Seed and WOK…rather that a pasty white guy who is just a bully-terrorist.

That is how this should have been done.

271. Vultan - February 23, 2014

#261

Thanks, Ahmed. All he needed to do was go to that wiki page and look under the controversies section. All sorts of links to reputable articles there. Don’t know why some fans get so bent out of shape over these things. I didn’t mean to make, nor was I trying to make hamburger out of a sacred cow. Just making a point over unnecessary worries behind the scenes.

I actually liked a good portion of STID. Has its flaws but not what I’d call a terrible movie. And I wish Bob Orci and the new writers all the best with this next one.

272. Vultan - February 23, 2014

#270

Yep. They should hire you to market these movies!

Anyway, sorry I brought this up. The secrecy thing would’ve been a better example. As I understand it, race can be a touchy subject. ;-)

273. Cygnus-X1 - February 23, 2014

Cumberbatch showed that had the gravitas to play Khan and did his best with the dialogue that he was given. Unfortunately, in comparison to Nick Meyer’s Khan, STID’s Khan was written as more of a crying, whiny baby, and lines like, “I had every reason to suspect that Marcus had killed every single one of the people I hold most dear,” did not give the character a strong motivation for Cumberbatch to work with. Still, he’s a good actor and made the best of it.

274. Ahmed - February 23, 2014

@273. Cygnus-X1

“STID’s Khan was written as more of a crying, whiny baby, ”

To be fair, it wasn’t just Khan!

http://carrinth.deviantart.com/art/Star-Trek-Into-Darkness-Everyone-Cries-373710341

275. Cygnus-X1 - February 23, 2014

274. Ahmed – February 23, 2014

That’s funny.

Normally, I’m very polite at the movies, but if Spock cries again in the next one, the audience might just hear an uncontrollable outburst from me.

Whomever they decide to kill off at the beginning of the next movie, I really think that they should just avoid even having Spock in that scene. And the person that gets killed off shouldn’t have even the faintest whisper of emotional resonance for Spock. The Vulcan first officer should be on another planet at the time playing pinochle or kal-toh or something.

276. I am not Herbert - February 24, 2014

Cygnus-X1: FULL AGREEMENT …no crying, screaming Spock, please! =(

277. I am not Herbert - February 24, 2014

Pentagon Plans to Shrink Army to Pre-World War II Level

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/24/us/politics/pentagon-plans-to-shrink-army-to-pre-world-war-ii-level.html?_r=1

278. Phil - February 24, 2014

@277. Posting random headlines again?

How about some Trek news?

http://whatculture.com/tv/destination-star-trek-frankfurt-press-conference-report-2.php

279. Ahmed - February 24, 2014

@278. Phil

Thanks for the link.

It is good to see Urban attending a Star Trek convention.

280. Phil - February 24, 2014

Yeah, considering the little hints that are popping up suggesting that the JJ universe isn’t going away, it’s a good idea to get you there and promote the brand.

281. Basement Blogger - February 24, 2014

@ 249 (VULTAN) , 253, 254, 260, 264

Who Cares,

Boy, I would agree with you that too much was made about the casting of Benedict Cumberbatch except you decide to lay down some ad hominem attacks on those who were upset with it. And in defense of Vultan, he cited a proper source which had the footnote that had Bob Orci’s comment. (@ 264) Yeah, Wikipedia can be wrong. But to keep information on an article, it should have a footnote. And if you read the Wiki article it has plenty of footnotes of people who complained about the casting of BC. At least Vultan cited a source with footnotes, versus your comments which seem to come from the top of your head. Some of them are whoppers..

You say, “use of the word race is incorrect as there is only one race, Human” @ 253 As much I love John Lennon, sorry to correct you but you are wrong. The human species is made up of races. In the field that I work in, I know law enforcement uses DNA to distinguish race. I will acknowledge that it’s controversial.

As a Chinese American, let me say there is such a thing as race. Walk in my shoes. Many white people viewed me as different. Not as an American but as a foreigner. Two days ago, a guy in a bar accused me of being a Korean. And ask an African American, if there is such a thing as race. Let’s go over the score, shall we? Southern whites enslaved black people. They then discriminated against them after they were freed. We had to pass sixties civil rights laws to protect them. So I’m guessing those bigoted Southern whites had something against black people of Africa.

Now would I like to see the white people who are bigots see me as a human being? Of course. But they see my racial makeup which is governed by my DNA.

You then make another comment that displays no knowledge of the subject. I’m assuming you like Star Trek because you paraphrase a comment that Cochrane made in Star Trek: First Contact. By the way, he wasn’t all that serious when he made it. Read bitterness and cynicism. But let’s see what you”ve said, shall we?

Who cares says,

” Now granted this supposed message of Trek is based on Gene’s so called vision of Trek, which in reality was the same as Zefram Chocrane’s vision for Warp drive, ie money, women in bikinis, and retirement to a tropical island.”

Wrong again. You don’t seem to know anything about Gene Roddenberry and what he wanted for Star Trek. Roddenberry wanted a science fiction show that had substance. He’s said so many times. Just look at the pilot. NBC said it was too cerebral. Yeah, he wanted real science fiction not Flash Gordon.

Want a source? How about Gene’s own words. Roddenberry wanted a mass entertainment that had “quality.” He wanted a “meaningful drama” with “substance and pride.” Paragraphs two and three of Gene’s letter to his agent.

http://trekmovie.com/2010/11/30/letter-of-note-gene-roddenberry-defends-star-trek-the-cage-pilot/

Gene’s vision is a simple one. Make a meaningful popular science fiction show that had substance. It’s this vision that defines Star Trek.

A little bit of advice, Who Cares. Don’t post without knowledge. Please, try to think before you write.

282. Cygnus-X1 - February 24, 2014

281. Basement Blogger – February 24, 2014

Not meaning to get involved in your dispute, but it was good to re-read GR’s letter. It strikes me in stark contrast to the stories about Paramount and Bad Robot tailoring ST09 and STID to polling data indicating that Europeans would prefer the movies to be more action-oriented.

283. I am not Herbert - February 24, 2014

Basement Blogger: Hear! Hear! =)

(BTW: we are actually quite special/unique in this regard: most habitable planets have only one race of humans)

(the “asian” race is the oldest, and has more of the “older/wiser” souls in incarnation)

Our biggest problem (overpopulation), also leads to running out of older/wiser souls for incarnation… thus our world is full of BRAND NEW (un-wise) souls!

284. Marja - February 24, 2014

A short list of superman types from Bollywood. Sorry the links are so long, but these will take you right to a picture. And since they are stars in Bollywood I would assume they can act.

Hrithik Roshan https://www.google.com/search?q=hrithik+roshan&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS571US571&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&imgil=g7P_JwX1llvuOM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRMsQpboGYwH6FuCCvpe39nSsDst47k-KLrepgbYc_V2X8aigy9%253B960%

Sendhil Ramamurthy [worldwide following for “Heroes”]
https://www.google.com/search?q=sendhil+ramamurthy&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS571US571&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=sKsLU4qQDuvM0gGH1YDACw&sqi=2&ved=0CL0BEIke&biw=1242&bih=585#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=pUDD-1VU8UHDrM%253A%3BJqZRpgUd9suF1M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmultipleverses.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2009%252F03%252Fheroesbwcollection8342.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fmultipleverses.com%252F2009%252F03%252F14%252Fheroes-sendhil-ramamurthy-interview%252F%3B277%3B400

Aamir Khan
https://www.google.com/search?q=Indian+actors+action+films&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS571US571&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Bq8LU_ODNcqB0AHxnIDwAQ&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1242&bih=585#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=TTeG17XSYE8ffM%253A%3BP2oS7hRYIIkYVM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fphotogallery.indiatimes.com%252Fcelebs%252Fceleb-themes%252Fbollywood-action-heroes%252Fphoto%252F19379534%252FAjay-Devgn-made-his-foray-into-Bollywood-with-an-out-an-out-action-film-Of-late-the-actor-has-been-dabbling-in-various-genres-however-action-is-what-suits-Ajay-the-best-.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fphotogallery.indiatimes.com%252Fcelebs%252Fceleb-themes%252Fbollywood-action-heroes%252Farticleshow%252F19379448.cms%3B600%3B600

Salman Khan
https://www.google.com/search?q=bollywood+actors+workout+routine&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS571US571&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=DbELU7r5H-vM0gGH1YDACw&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1242&bih=585#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=WLZIfmQfLktbnM%253A%3BNBF6sRgXeKwvGM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fhealthyceleb.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F05%252Fveer-salman-khan-bollywood.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fhealthyceleb.com%252Fsalman-khan-workout-routine%252F299%3B386%3B400

John Abraham
https://www.google.com/search?q=Indian+actors+action+films&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS571US571&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Bq8LU_ODNcqB0AHxnIDwAQ&ved=0CE0QsAQ&biw=1242&bih=585#facrc=_&imgdii=6G86Vh3MDRbD4M%3A%3BmY-FIBPiNys5ZM%3B6G86Vh3MDRbD4M%3A

Vidyut Jamwal
https://www.google.com/search?q=bollywood+actors+workout+routine&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS571US571&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=DbELU7r5H-vM0gGH1YDACw&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1242&bih=585#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=PZqkv8hrU_4DsM%253A%3BVr3-lqGgOlIy2M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fworkoutinfoguru.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F10%252FVidyut-Jamwal-Body.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fworkoutinfoguru.com%252Fvidyut-jamwal-workout%252F%3B410%3B336

It is ridiculous to say Benicio del Toro should have been cast. He is the wrong ethnicity, pure and simple, and, if the initial choice for Khan, a very insensitive one. The fact that Ricardo Montalban played Khan in the ’60s and reprised the role in the ’80s is incontrovertible, however he was chosen in the ’60s because he worked in Hollywood — and he had what was then considered an “exotic” accent. And yes, he can act, no doubt about that. But his original casting was in the ’60s, a time and casting system not nearly so concerned with authentic ethnicity. And TOS shot on a very tight schedule besides.

I rest my case.

285. Marja - February 24, 2014

Perhaps they really were concerned about casting a person of a different ethnicity. I think it’s more like, del Toro wasn’t available, so they went with a fairly popular actor with a worldwide following.

286. Marja - February 24, 2014

282 Cygnus, I think the “foreign market” they were trying to appeal to [I didn’t see “European market” anywhere] was China [huge market], and other Asian countries, all big fans of action movies and huge audiences compared with the European market.
———————————————————
Herbert, Some food for thought — “your mileage may vary” http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/world-affairs-board-pub/42087-reincarnation.html

George Carlin, brainy comedian: http://www.firstpost.com/topic/person/george-carlin-16-george-carlin-brain-droppings-cd2-reincarnation-video-VgeRgj0uZ1U-3210-7.html

I mean, he’s got a point, doesn’t he? Where are all the souls coming from in the first place, and why would we be running out?

287. Marja - February 24, 2014

re my #285: I know what Bob Orci’s feelings are on the subject, but usually in Hollywood writers are about the least powerful people on a movie-making team. If Bad Robot does things differently and considers the writers’ feelings, good on ‘em!

In LA common knowledge was that production companies and movie studios and directors held far more sway and exercised this power. But things may have changed since I left 15 years ago. [I doubt it though, since even Spielberg says money/anticipated profit has more leverage than ever in the equation.]

288. Ahmed - February 24, 2014

@286. Marja

” I know what Bob Orci’s feelings are on the subject, but usually in Hollywood writers are about the least powerful people on a movie-making team.”

Bob & Alex were also producers, not just writers, on STID.

289. Disinvited - February 24, 2014

#281. Basement Blogger – February 24, 2014

FWIW this [from the American Association of Physical Anthropologists’ “Statement on Biological Aspects of Race” (AAPA 1996)] conforms to what I was taught about race in my college Physical Anthropology:

There are hereditary differences among human beings. Some of these differences have geographical correlates. Some ge-
netic variants that produce physical or behavioral deficits occur significantly more often in some areas, or in some ethnic
groups, than in others. However, none of these facts provides any intellectual support for the race concept, for racial clas-
sifications, or for social hierarchies based on ethnic-group membership.

The geographical element of the race concept is important in theory but is widely ignored in practice since it does not
conform well to the facts of current human phenotype distribution. Much of the literature on supposed racial differences
involves such geographically meaningless exercises as studying differences among “races” by subdividing a sample of
North Americans. If races are defined as geographically delimited conspecific populations characterized by distinctive
regional phenotypes, then human races do not exist now and have not existed for centuries, [race, human variation, intel-
ligence]

290. Vultan - February 24, 2014

#281

Thanks, BB. I appreciate your thoughtful words, especially sharing your personal experiences, but go easy on the guy. Maybe Who Cares was having a bad day.

Anyway, I see Harold Ramis has passed away, which is a real kick in the gut. 69 years old. For some reason I thought he was younger. A great comedy writer. Groundhog Day, what a movie! There are now actually philosophy classes that study it.

RIP, Mr. Ramis.

291. I am not Herbert - February 24, 2014

Harold Ramis? really? well, hopefully he died peacefully… =)

…i hope i depart in my sleep, or better yet, meditation… =)

..my favorite is that one with Bill Murray in the Army… title escapes me… ;-)

292. MJ - February 24, 2014

BB,

If you let people get to you like this, then you are becoming the “victim” that those hateful people want you to become.

293. I am not Herbert - February 24, 2014

Marja: Where do new souls come from?: they are manifested through love, as need be, by Universal “God”/”Creation” =)

each new soul is a fraction, a spark, of “God”/”Creation”, sent out to experience and learn all it can on it’s inevitable, eventual path of return… ;-)

294. I am not Herbert - February 24, 2014

Marja: Why would we (earth) be running out of (older/wiser) souls?:

Already stated: overpopulation! there are about 10 times as many people on this planet, as it can reasonably support… =(

i.e. there are 10 times more people (and souls) on this planet, than there should be, optimally…

295. I am not Herbert - February 24, 2014

“STRIPES” (1981) =D

296. Marja - February 24, 2014

IANHerbert, “each new soul is a fraction, a spark, of “God”/”Creation”, sent out to experience and learn all it can on it’s inevitable, eventual path of return… ;-)

Then don’t worry, we’re not gonna run out of souls ;-)

297. Marja - February 24, 2014

288 Ahmed, Aw, geeze, I knew that, at some point. [embarrassed]

298. Marja - February 24, 2014

294, “Stripes” – I liked when the Bill Murray character’s girlfriend was breaking up with him and he says, “But you CAN’T leave! All the plants will die!”

THAT’S THE FACT, JACK!!!

299. MJ - February 24, 2014

“What kind of training is that, son?”

“Arrrrrrrrrrrrmy training, sir”

Love that movie — especially the first half.

300. MJ - February 24, 2014

The earth could easily support 10 to 12 billion, if resources were managed better.

301. Ahmed - February 24, 2014

@ 299. MJ – February 24, 2014

“The earth could easily support 10 to 12 billion, if resources were managed better.”

Sure, as long as we are getting our Soylent Green, all should be well & sound in that overcrowded Earth :-)

302. The Keeper - February 24, 2014

I do loves me my Shat.

Is Paramount still going with Orci as one of the writers of the next film?
You know if they are it’s going to suck big time.

303. I am not Herbert - February 24, 2014

…yeah, running out is not the problem… but, whatever… ;-) LL&P =)

304. Cygnus-X1 - February 24, 2014

285. Marja – February 24, 2014

Yeah, I think it was European + Asian = foreign market.

305. Cygnus-X1 - February 24, 2014

300. Ahmed – February 24, 2014

Sure, as long as we are getting our Soylent Green, all should be well & sound in that overcrowded Earth :-)

There’s actually a food product just come out called “Soylent” and it’s being marketed as “the perfect food” or something. I’m not making this up. Saw the article at Business Insider.

306. Cygnus-X1 - February 24, 2014

And it’s made out of people! Tell everyone! They didn’t change the recipe like they said they were gonna! It’s still PEOPLE!! You tell’em! Soylent is made out of people! It’s PEOPLE!!!!

307. MJ - February 24, 2014

Not really Ahmed.

Do you know for every human being on earth today, their are 170 million insects. Insects outweigh the human population by a factor of 1000.

308. Ahmed - February 24, 2014

@ 305. Cygnus-X1 – February 24, 2014

“And it’s made out of people! Tell everyone! They didn’t change the recipe like they said they were gonna! It’s still PEOPLE!! You tell’em! Soylent is made out of people! It’s PEOPLE!!!!”

LOL,

“You maniacs! You blew it up! Aw damn you! God… damn you all to Hell!”

Charlton Heston sure got two of the best lines in the history of Sci-Fi movies :)

309. Ahmed - February 24, 2014

@ 306. MJ – February 24, 2014

“Not really Ahmed.

Do you know for every human being on earth today, their are 170 million insects. Insects outweigh the human population by a factor of 1000.”

Eating bugs ? Yikes

310. Red Dead Ryan - February 24, 2014

Insects require only a fraction of resources that people depend on. And the more the population grows, the more the rich will seek control over land, oceans, fresh water, and other vital resources. The rest of us will be left fighting over the scraps. You can count on that.

311. MJ - February 24, 2014

@310

Oh, I agree. My point was that if you had world government that really managed resources and then environment the way it should be done, teh Earth could easily support 12 billion people. That is never going to happen, of course.

But theoretically, 12 billion people on earth is not that big a deal if man would get its act together ever.

312. Jim Nightshade - February 25, 2014

yeh rest in peace harold ramis….what an awesome comedy writer n performer….loved his character who joined the army with bill murray in stripes..and who could forget Egon in ghostbusters…..and yah writer or co writer of classics like animal house,ntl lampoon vacation,caddyshack,stripes,groundhog day,ghostbusters 1 an 2, etc…apparently the last five years suffering from an autoimmune disease that ruined the vascular system, blood vessals etc….i also hope he died peacefully as the disease sounds horrible..my gf has three diff. autoimmune diseases….

313. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

Red Dead Ryan: AGREED! =) (wha?)

MJ: “…Earth could easily support 12 billion people.” not so much… =(

…maybe if you like living like a factory-farmed “chicken”… =(

314. Marja - February 25, 2014

311 MJ, so, in conclusion, yeah it would be a big deal, alas.

ah, Humankind, not so kind. rueful LOL.

315. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

Our CORPORATE future: They want to make it so NOTHING IS GIVEN =(

EVERYTHING would be “privatized”: only those who can pay for it, get clean water, clean air, clean food… the rest can choke on the filth/poison of industrial waste (pollution) …and live in a desolated environment… =(

They don’t want YOUR OWN government to educate you, or protect you, or your environment… they want you to create your own failure, so they can provide “the solution” (at an even higher profit), but actually making it even worse… (GMO’s anyone?)

They are tricking you into turning YOUR EDEN (earth), into YOUR SELF-MADE HELL… for profit! =D

http://www.commoncause.org/site/pp.asp?c=dkLNK1MQIwG&b=4764307

316. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

George Takei Calls For Arizona Boycott In Scathing Open Letter

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/24/george-takei-arizona-boycott_n_4846812.html

317. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

Video: Meteorite Smashes into Moon in Largest Lunar Impact Ever Recorded – Incredibly on 9/11 Last Year!

http://goldenageofgaia.com/2014/02/video-meteorite-smashes-into-moon-in-largest-lunar-impact-ever-recorded-incredibly-on-911-last-year/

318. Phil - February 25, 2014

@316. AZ gov isn’t going to sign the bill. GOP support is collapsing, as business interests are telling them it’s a really bad idea.

319. Phil - February 25, 2014

@311. Not sure that world government would be the best tool to accomplish that. By definition, that’s central planning, which historically has resulted in famine and starvation.

320. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

huh? who’da thunk it! hate bad for business? even in ALL-WHITE AZ???

321. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

Harold Ramis, 1944-2014

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/24/1280012/-Harold-Ramis-1944-2014

322. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

Nine out of 10 ‘most miserable’ states are red, surprising no one =P

“Mississippi is THRILLED that it didn’t top this list. West Virginia topped it by just being absolutely despondent about their future. And really, can’t say I blame them when water in Mexico is safer than the stuff coming out of their own tap.”

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/24/1280047/-Nine-out-of-10-most-miserable-states-are-Red-surprising-no-one

323. MJ - February 25, 2014

The only state that surprised me being on that list was Tennessee. Been there on business several time, and seems pretty modern with nice people, plus national parks, music industry, etc.

324. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

yeah, Nashville is probly like Austin… oasis in the desert… ;-)

325. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

get into the hills, and I’m sure it’s a different story… ;-)

326. MJ - February 25, 2014

Unlike remote Northern California, of course.

327. Phil - February 25, 2014

Boy, I sure do hope we are not perpetuating the notion that the only people who are bigoted, stupid and hateful are conservatives. Cause if we are, it’s not that hard to produce a rather substantial list of Progressives that have their heads firmly shoved up their backsides, too.

We all have our biases. We all also have to get past the notions that whatever governs our own particular bias dictates that ‘my way’ is the only way to accomplish things. The notion that whatever my opponent proposes needs to be rejected out of hand, simply because he’s an opponent, as opposed to a legitimate discussion of the merits of the proposal, ultimately, is self destructive. One mans desert is another mans oasis. To that end, it is better to agree on what we hold in common, and not allow our differences to become pointless, destructive battlegrounds.

328. Ahmed - February 25, 2014

Bob & Alex are getting busier with more projects ! Sony hired Marc Webb to direct their 2016 movie, The Amazing Spider-Man 3. And they are planning to release a Spider-Man movie EVERY YEAR !!!

===============================

Marc Webb Confirmed to Direct THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 3; Sony Plans to Release a SPIDER-MAN Film Every Year

While Webb is currently putting the finishing touches on The Amazing Spider-Man 2 in anticipation of the film’s May release date, the studio has already been hard at work prepping Spider-Man 3 by hiring Alex Kurtzman, Roberto Orci, and Jeff Pinkner to pen the screenplay last year.

The plan is to begin production on The Amazing Spider-Man 3 this fall in anticipation of its May 2016 release date, and the studio has already dated The Amazing Spider-Man 4 for May 2018.

Additionally, Sony apparently has a game plan that involves releasing a new Spider-Man film every year, per studio co-chairman Amy Pascal. Unless the aforementioned Venom or The Sinister Six somehow move into production within the next few months, that plan will likely kick off with Spider-Man 3.

Kurtzman is onboard to direct Venom while Drew Goddard is writing and directing The Sinister Six, so one of those two films will almost certainly hit theaters in 2017 to fill in the gap between Spider-Man 3 and Spider-Man 4. Since Goddard is currently busy directing a Daredevil series for Netflix and Marvel, the safe bet is on Venom to be the first out of the gate.

http://collider.com/amazing-spider-man-3-marc-webb/

329. Ahmed - February 25, 2014

@327. Phil

“We all also have to get past the notions that whatever governs our own particular bias dictates that ‘my way’ is the only way to accomplish things. The notion that whatever my opponent proposes needs to be rejected out of hand, simply because he’s an opponent, as opposed to a legitimate discussion of the merits of the proposal, ultimately, is self destructive. One mans desert is another mans oasis. To that end, it is better to agree on what we hold in common, and not allow our differences to become pointless, destructive battlegrounds.”

Well said, Phil. This should be inscripted inside the Capitol Hill to remind congressmen of the reason they were sent to DC in the first place.

330. Phil - February 25, 2014

@328. Well, Bob popped in here a few days ago and asked what he should be working on. Seems he answered his own question, it looks like he’s working on Spider-Man!!

Not holding my breath for a movie in 2016….

331. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

Phil: I like the way you think… =) …pity that it’s unrealistic… =(

“…it is better to agree on what we hold in common…”

No… All that evil needs to succeed, is the silence of good men…

you call-out evil, and face it head-on! …don’t ignore it =( (denial?)

a desert is a desert, NO MATTER HOW YOU SPIN IT! =P

332. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

i think bob being too busy for trek is a GOOD THING!! =D

let him just be an “executive producer” ;-)

333. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

yes, corruption in politics (in everything, lol), is rampant… =(

but if you think republicans are not pure profiteering jingoistic evil, you ARE a republican and/or a fool =(

334. Phil - February 25, 2014

@331. Actually, you don’t. Given that the entire strength of your arguments lie in attacking those who don’t agree with your self-aggrandizing opinions falsely labeled as truth, the last thing you want, as other demagogues in the past have demonstrated, is anyone willing to question you. Tyranny demands those people be marginalized, something any thinking person won’t be, when they ask questions they know you won’t answer.

Some people here have called you on your propaganda. Others ignore it, understanding the fool with no audience goes away. But make no mistake, you have no followers. Just smart people here, humoring your ramblings. Think twice before labeling people as tools – there is wisdom in the old saying that it’s best to remain quiet and appear the fool, then to open your mouth and erase all doubt.

335. MJ - February 25, 2014

“Boy, I sure do hope we are not perpetuating the notion that the only people who are bigoted, stupid and hateful are conservatives. ”

Unfortunately, yes. Look at I am not Herbert posts. He has as much hate for the right at they have for him. He is a condescending know-it-all who thinks he know how we all should live — just like the right wing crackpots he claims he is fighting the good fight against.

You have to live in California for awhile before you recall begin to see beneath the veneer of some of these condescending ultra-left types from Northern California. They are just like the Tea Party in their own way — just as morally bankrupts.

336. MJ - February 25, 2014

That is the real problem with our society today. All of these extremists on both sides, supported by easy internet communication access, take over the discussion, and effectively prevent the rest of us from solving real-world problems.

337. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

Phil: good advice! – (for a fool…) but i’m not a fool either, and I WILL express myself… =)

IF I AM BEING A FOOL, PLEASE CALL ME ON IT (WITH SPECIFICS) ;-)

MJ: your quote is backwards logic (SPIN), the rest is BS… ;-)

We are getting heated, and fairly political… so what say? cease fire? =)

LL&P

338. MJ - February 25, 2014

@337. You hatred for others who don’t disagree with your views is morally equivalent to their hatred of you.

339. Disinvited - February 25, 2014

#334. Phil – February 25, 2014

According to Roget it is:

“Better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt.”

The attribution seems somewhat muddled with various sources attributing it to Twain, Lincoln or Franklin. And one has to wonder if they can’t agree on who said it, how do any of them know just exactly what it was that was said?

340. I am not Herbert - February 25, 2014

MJ: i pictured you slurring that like drunken Homer Simpson =P

341. boborci - February 25, 2014

330

oh ye of little faith. Trek is my life right now. fear not.

342. MJ - February 25, 2014

@341

Throwing my friend Phil under the bus!

LOL :-)

343. Red Dead Ryan - February 25, 2014

Sony is going to damage the “Spider-Man” franchise by releasing a web-slinger movie every year. Not to mention that movies focusing exclusively on the villains is a bad idea. A “Venom” movie, really? Venom is one of the most highly overrated comics villains, IMO.

Disney is also risking franchise fatigue with number of Marvel movies they plan on continuing to release in the next several years. And the there is FOX with the “X-Men” movies and a second, unwanted “Fantastic Four” reboot.

344. crazydaystrom - February 26, 2014

327. Phil-

“We all have our biases. We all also have to get past the notions that whatever governs our own particular bias dictates that ‘my way’ is the only way to accomplish things. The notion that whatever my opponent proposes needs to be rejected out of hand, simply because he’s an opponent, as opposed to a legitimate discussion of the merits of the proposal, ultimately, is self destructive…”

Advocating thoughtful and considerate intelligence on this forum?!? Almost seems out of place. Almost. Some here will appreciate those words. Others will continue to show that’s just not their way. Shame, that.

“One mans desert is another mans oasis.”

And one man’s “Kumbaya” is another’s sour milk. Oh well. So be it. But – tsk, tsk.

“…not allow our differences to become pointless, destructive battlegrounds.”

AMEN!

Good to’ve read those smart and positive words here Phil. Bravo!

345. crazydaystrom - February 26, 2014

329. Ahmed
Well said, Phil. This should be inscripted inside the Capitol Hill…

It should be posted in red bold type at the top of each thread on this site!

346. crazydaystrom - February 26, 2014

341. boborci

“Trek is my life right now.”

Good! I’ve high hopes as always with Trek.

The latest trailer for TASM2 looks great! For me TASM was only so-so – not as good as Raimi’s 1&2 but much better than his 3. This one looks like it could be the best Spidey flick ever.

But-

So wanting to be blown away by the next Trek film! ….*ahem* in 2016!!!

347. Phil - February 26, 2014

@342. What bus? For all we know Bob’s family may have a new puppy and they named it Trek! Of course Trek would be the center of his life right now If it’s s**ting all over the sofa….

348. Ahmed - February 26, 2014

@347. Phil

LOL

349. Ahmed - February 26, 2014

@ 345. crazydaystrom – February 26, 2014

“329. Ahmed
Well said, Phil. This should be inscripted inside the Capitol Hill…

It should be posted in red bold type at the top of each thread on this site!”

Indeed!

350. I am not Herbert - February 26, 2014

…well, I guess I agree with Phil’s statement of spin re: rejection / opposition…

…but I reject the implication that it applies to me… ;-)

…i don’t want to impose “my way” on anyone… =)

My POV is not pointless or destructive, as you attempt to falsely portray =(

FREE WILL should not be infringed upon. =)

LL&P =)

351. star trackie - February 26, 2014

#341 “Trek is my life right now. fear not.”

No fear here, Bob, just great anticipation. Seems like every time I watch Trek Into Darkness, I find something else to like. Everyone is just so damned good in it.

352. Marja - February 26, 2014

310 RDR, “fighting over the scraps” Pest control for the rich! The 99% will be fighting over who gets to eat the insects

323 MJ, TN has a large evangelical Christian population, many of whom are probably not very progressive in their beliefs.

327 Phil, well said. This is what’s wrong in Congress today. Too many people planting their heels in the ground, refusing to compromise their values. I personally see this happening on the Right much more than on the Left.

The Dems have lost lots of ground because they’re willing to compromise [Obama conceded much to the Reps in trying to get them to pass the ACA]. As I see it, the GOP [presently controlled by the Tea Party electorate] casts things in much starker “us v. them” terms than the middle-of-the-road Democrats, who are branded by conservatives as “socialists” …

There are VERY few effective progressives in Congress. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Rush Holt, John Conyers, and Eleanor Holmes Norton are the names that spring to my mind. I’m sure there are others, but how much power their votes have is questionable b/c of the overwhelming conservative majority.

Yes, propaganda happens on both sides. No, the progressives do not have the financial power the right has. And finances buy propaganda.

I’m not espousing IANHerbert’s “jingoistic” remarks, btw, just giving my POV on what can become a very overheated debate. I think reasoning people can agree, casting things in hateful terms only makes people dig in their heels more firmly.

353. Marja - February 26, 2014

331 IANHerbert, “[re:Phil’s] “…it is better to agree on what we hold in common…” No… All that evil needs to succeed, is the silence of good men…you call-out evil, and face it head-on!

While I do call out evil as I see it, I cannot completely dismiss the good that some people bring into the discussion. I see that some hate-filled people have been in control of the Republican dialectic for some time; now mainstream Republicans are trying to reclaim their party. They are now trying to save their party by appealing to more moderate Republicans.

The fact that Tea Party and Libertarian folk espouse parts of an agenda that is anathema to compassionate people of a more socialist bent [like myself, I say in full disclosure] does not mean I cannot compromise with them when they espouse agenda items I can agree with. There is, however, a whole ream of terms used that many people [much of the American electorate] can’t see beyond to the ugly truth behind them, because the terms are used repeatedly in propaganda.

354. I am not Herbert - February 26, 2014

“Why I changed my mind on weed” by Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN Chief Medical Correspondent:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/

355. I am not Herbert - February 26, 2014

Marja: yeah, no…

conservatism means conserving as much money as you can for yourself, at everyone else’s expense… sorry… =(

the rest (of conservatism) is hateful BS… sorry… =(

356. I am not Herbert - February 26, 2014

Marja: i don’t think people are fooled, as much as they are careless and lazy… if the 99% vote, the 1% don’t matter…

BUT, DECEPTION IS the biggest tool of manipulation that they play… yes, just plain lies… but also good old republican / CIA “dirty tricks”…

“Aarr-rooo!” says Nixon’s head in a jar… =P

357. Marja - February 26, 2014

354 Herbert, Wise conservatism concerns certain government spending, i.e. foreign adventurism [joining into wars, or starting one for example]. Other government spending cuts I oppose with all my being, such as cuts to “entitlements,” e.g. military retirement pay and personnel pay [oh, yeah, when some members of government who support foreign adventurism say they “support our troops,” I’m not quite sure how they do that], Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare.

There are those who have not earned their riches, the “jet set” who inherit huge money and don’t pay “death” tax [a smart-on-their-part re-naming of “inheritance” tax], who I think should pay a large proportion of their “income” in taxes, along with those CEOs who make 42x the amount of pay their line workers do.

But, by your lights, I am a conservative b/c I want to protect my retirement pay? Would you care to re-phrase that, laddie? [I.e., beware the easy phraseology, my friend.]

358. I am not Herbert - February 26, 2014

…well, i guess they ARE FOOLED… into being careless and lazy… =(

359. I am not Herbert - February 26, 2014

Marja: yeah, i’m sorry…

I’m going to have to reject that whole “wise spending” thing out of hand…

…but at least you’re NOT NEARLY as brainwashed as most ex-military I’ve encountered… ;-)

IF you want to “protect my retirement pay” at the expense of others, yes, you are a conservative (by my definition) little miss semantics… =(

360. captainspock - February 26, 2014

The ten reasons trek isent trek any more, this artical explains how star trek has changed over the years & it gives ten reason why trek is not the same in both universes enjoy

http://whatculture.com/film/10-ways-star-trek-just-isnt-star-trek-anymore.php#3SD81hTKH9vsSlSf.01

361. I am not Herbert - February 26, 2014

Richard M. Nixon’s head – Behind the Scenes

Richard Nixon is voiced by Billy West. West’s voice for the character is a parody of Anthony Hopkins’s portrayal of the former President in the film Nixon.

He makes “Haroo” noises because he reminds Billy West of a werewolf.

On occasion, the character of Nixon states “Oh, expletive deleted!” This is in reference to transcripts of Oval Office recordings, which censored Nixon’s cursing with that phrase.

=)

362. Cygnus-X1 - February 26, 2014

359. captainspock – February 26, 2014

Thanks for posting that article.

I’ve been droning on about everything discussed in that article for months, and it’s good to see someone organize those issues into a cohesive thesis.

I really don’t understand how these issues, and the main point that “It’s not Star Trek,” don’t bother every Trekkie. I just don’t get it. Yes, the BR Trek movies are slick, fun action movies, but they should not be based upon nor called “Star Trek.” BR, Orci et al should be making comic-book movies, premised and titled as such, because those are clearly the kinds of movies that they want to make, and their stories and writing are clearly styled in the fashion of comic-books and action movies, not thoughtful science fiction—not Star Trek.

I won’t reiterate all of my opinions that I’ve stated here many times already, but I will quote the article in a few places. And if these quotes seem to strike familiar tones, it’s because I and others who post here have realized the same things that the author of this article and many other critics/writers/bloggers/actors/Trekkies have realized:

“This whole crew seems inexperienced, undisciplined and not fit to be on the Federation’s flagship. Quite why they have been written this way is perhaps to be in line with Kirk’s inexperience rather than having a crew who have several years’ more experience that their Captain. But it just doesn’t make sense when the crew of the original series were seasoned professionals who were chosen to serve on the best ship in the fleet.”

[They appear to have been written that way in order to make them consistent with being as young as they are. And they appear to have been written as young as they are in order to attract a young audience. The main problem with this is that young people tend to make for less sophisticated movie audiences simply because their relative inexperience makes them easier to impress and entertain with movie magic and easier to confuse and trick into believing that something meaningful is happening when it’s really just a badly constructed plot peppered with superficial gestures of themes.]

“From a fundamental misunderstanding of what it is to travel at warp speed to the ridiculous and unnecessarily large ball of Red Matter the new films throw science to the wind with an abandon that would make Gene Roddenberry weep if he were still alive.”

“Internal consistency is all we ask. We already know that artistic license must be taken in the service of a good story, but when the story is as bad as that of “Into Darkness” adding fuel to the fire by taking all semblance of reality and trashing it is criminal.”

“This reboot may be fun, but it’s unlikely to inspire the next generation of scientists and engineers.”

“The original series and films may have contained their fair share of space battles and phaser fights from time to time but nothing like what we’ve seen in the reboot movies. Gone are the cerebral stories examining humanity and the human condition, in their place is bang bang, pew pew. Lots of spectacle but very little substance.”

“Star Trek was a science fiction series. They brought in science fiction writers to make stories that made people think, that explored concepts of philosophical importance. John D.F. Black, writer and associate producer, said “the primary thing as a science fiction writer, never ask your audience to believe more than one extraordinary thing.” It was important to the writers and producers to write stories that were consistent internally and had something to say.”

“The new films are overly ‘complex’ and ask the audience to believe far more than one extraordinary thing at a time. By doing so they don’t stand up to scrutiny and as science fiction stories they fail as a result. Damon Lindelof shouldn’t be allowed near a pack of crayons never mind a film script, look at the mess he made of John Spaihts’ original Prometheus script. He tends to have a decent core idea that he throws a whole bunch of other ideas at hence hiding the core story. He might think that’s complexity but in fact it just makes a mockery of the Star Trek franchise.”

“These are not the same types of stories or the same type of science fiction as the idea from which they came. They are fiction fantasy films with the same character names as the Star Trek series, they have appeal to wider audience and are accessible to people who never watched an episode in their lives. They are many things to many people, but they are not Star Trek.”

363. I am not Herbert - February 26, 2014

…yeah, the article lays it out pretty well: it’s not “Star Trek” – and I AGREE.

the current comic-book movies, Marvel especially, ARE WAY BETTER SCI-FI than nu-trek! …but i agree: nu-trek IS comic bookish, and NOT IN A GOOD WAY =(

HOPING GODZILLA WILL BE GOOD!! =D Japanese style PLEASE!!! =D

364. Disinvited - February 26, 2014

#361. Cygnus-X1 – February 26, 2014, 362. I am not Herbert – February 26, 2014

It is a fact of history that STAR TREK came out in comics (both strip and book) before even the first Trek motion picture flickered. I don’t believe categorizing a film as a “comic book movie” is a very compelling argument that it is not STAR TREK?

365. Danpaine - February 26, 2014

359 – Captainspock, great link there. That guy really nailed it. Epix channel just started running STID on a regular basis, and after another viewing I’m sorry to say, that movie is one good-looking mess. Trek for the ADHD generation.

366. Ahmed - February 26, 2014

An interesting article on Trekcore.

===================================

EXCLUSIVE! ‘Into Darkness’ Deleted Scenes, Part I

piece of bonus content: the long-rumored, unannounced, basically forgotten deleted scenes!

Like most of the other bonus features produced for the twelfth Trek film, this cut footage — along with several other video clips and visual effects breakdowns — has been relegated to a single retailer. It’s not a store-exclusive DVD or Blu-ray release; it’s not even an iTunes download like the film’s feature commentary track.

This rare footage is found in the Xbox SmartGlass second-screen app, which only works with digital copies of Into Darkness purchased through the Xbox video store. That’s it; no other source includes the cut scenes.

It’s taken us a while, but we’ve finally gotten our hands on a copy of the Xbox SmartGlass content… and now, we can begin to share it with all of you. Due to copyright issues, we’re not able to post the video from the scenes — nor can we provide copies, so please don’t ask! — but we will present detailed descriptions and transcriptions of each scene.

http://trekcore.com/blog/2014/02/exclusive-into-darkness-deleted-scenes-part-i/

========================

It is so stupid of Paramount to make the fans go through that just to watch deleted scenes. Why they didn’t included it with the blu-ray version ?

367. Marja - February 26, 2014

359 Herbert, I probably shouldn’t continue engaging here, but what sort of government spending do you advocate? Are you saying Social Security and other promised government pensions, Medicaid and Medicare are UNwise?

My having been in the military does not mean I’m brainwashed. What I’m concerned about now is those in Congress who mean to “reform” “unwise spending” on “entitlements.” So yes, I want to protect my military retirement.

Your responses can be confusing, so please take a few minutes extra to look them over to ensure they make sense to others.

368. Marja - February 26, 2014

Re: Herbert 356, “i don’t think people are fooled, as much as they are careless and lazy… if the 99% vote, the 1% don’t matter… BUT, DECEPTION IS the biggest tool of manipulation that they play… yes, just plain lies…”

Yes, I’m pretty sure I said that, in less simplistic terms. Liberals and progressives need to vote in record numbers this fall. The young and many others were misinformed or lazy and stayed home in 2010 after Obama won the 2008 election, and now look at the sharp divides along party lines. It’s unworkable.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled Star Trek discussion.

369. Kara - February 26, 2014

Why does this Herbert person assume that “HE KNOWS” and others are “fools.”

I’m not too impressed with people who have to put other’s down constantly to reaffirm their own political and social beliefs.

370. Marja - February 26, 2014

366 Ahmed, Thanks for that link. I agree, BR/Paramount have been monumentally stupid about the extra features.

I hope they release them all eventually, deleted scenes, commentary, and so on, and that they don’t limit it to Blu-Ray.

371. Cygnus-X1 - February 27, 2014

364. Disinvited – February 26, 2014

It is a fact of history that STAR TREK came out in comics (both strip and book) before even the first Trek motion picture flickered. I don’t believe categorizing a film as a “comic book movie” is a very compelling argument that it is not STAR TREK?

I’ve never read a Star Trek comic, so I can’t really comment on how faithful they are to the spirit of TOS. But, if the comics you’re referencing aren’t faithful to TOS, then it seems the issue you’re calling attention to might be more related to branding and merchandizing.

I think that most Trekkies and casual fans would not regard comics as bearing the standard (or being obliged to) of Trek and the vision of GR. A comic book or strip can be anything from a facetious few blocks of Kirk and McCoy playing a joke on Spock, to a “graphic novel” and it’s generally understood that comics are not necessarily trying to live up to the standard of a work of literature or film.

Also, when I say “comic-book movie” I’m referring to the spate of movies made over the past 2 decades or so based on (mostly) Marvel and some DC comics. Those movies are being made in a certain style and with certain set of values. For example, they’re fantasy as opposed to science fiction. They don’t tend to have much “substance” in terms of developed themes. They’re basically high-production-value, highly fantastical action movies that entertain you for a couple of hours but don’t give you much to think about in the days and weeks after you’ve seen them. And that’s all fine, if that’s what you’re in the mood for. But it’s not what Star Trek was ever meant to be, certainly not in film.

372. Disinvited - February 27, 2014

#371. Cygnus-X1 – February 27, 2014

Thanks for clarifying, but you further muddy your point by mentioning Marvel which took over STAR TREK comic books for a while as part of the 1979 movie licensing deal which only allowed them to base tales on TMP forward. I seem to recall other Marvel forays into Trek comics after that as well, but I’m not very familiar with those.

And its been a long while since I read the strips and the Marvel tomes but I recall feeling more than a few were up to at least the FILMATION standards of drawn Trek storytelling. I don’t recall being very impressed with the 1960s’ GOLD KEY comics Trek but I don’t recall it as being all bad, either.

I don’t envy you this path you’ve set yourself upon. You seems dangerously close to declaring all printed STAR TREK as not measuring up or at least not being relevant and I am well-aware that a sizeable faction of fans enjoy/enjoyed reading their Trek in various forms.

373. Marja - February 27, 2014

362 Cygnus, and once again we’re back to different people defining “what makes Star Trek, Star Trek.”

I agree that the movies are, largely, flash-bang-boom, pew! pew! … and I agree for the most part with his assessment of Kirk, as written [Pine does an admirable job conveying Kirk’s intelligence and emotional makeup but is hindered by the “rush Kirk to the captain’s chair” aspect of both movies], but I disagree sharply with the reviewer’s comments about the Spock character portrayed in the films. Yes, it’s a different “take” on Spock, but it’s not total “characterization rape” as we may say of some fan fiction. It’s a new and different universe, and so, a slightly different Spock.

I know there are many here who will wail “SLIGHTLY different! He’s crying and raging all the time!” No, he is not crying and raging all the time. The fact that many fans seem to think Spock “has no emotions” shows me how little they understand about the character’s personality traits. First, Vulcans suppress deeply felt emotions, emotions that are stronger than those of Humans. [Surak saved the Vulcan race by getting them to adopt a culture that celebrated logic and adjured Vulcans to suppress emotions.]

This Spock is under enormous stress and has functioned admirably.Look at his actions between the rescue of the Vulcan Elders right up until Kirk challenges him on a deeply personal and emotional level, within hours of Amanda’s death.

I do dispute the brutality of the fighting in STID [another concession to post-pubescent males] but not the range of emotions Spock experiences.

In “The Immunity Syndrome” TOS Spock does indeed “feel” the loss of 400 Vulcans, and recover, at least in outward appearances, to function for the rest of the episode. Yet one may also argue that he may be expressing a subconscious wish to join them in death, while ostensibly setting out on a scientific rescue mission. I point out, though, that Spock, in this TOS episode, has NOT just lost 99% of his race, has NOT just lost his beloved mother, and has NOT seen the implosion of his planet.

We don’t know how much time has elapsed in the fictional universe between Trek XI and Trek XII. If it’s less than a year, I submit that Spock cannot possibly have done enough meditation to control his reactions under stress to the loss of, and threat to, those friends he cares for, the only family he has left.

374. Marja - February 27, 2014

I do agree with the reviewer about the science in NuTrek [Red Matter? rully?], but we must remember, Roddenberry also came up with transporters, insofar as physicists have been able to tell, an impossible mechanism. Warp drive, if “folded space,” may be possible some day. Yes, there is a lot of handwavium in the Trek movies … but remember, there’s plenty of handwavium in TOS, too. [And don’t get me started on Genesis in STII WOK.]

I think that all this is so much more noticeable because it’s moving an ever-accelerated plot forward, and because it’s compressed into two hours instead of over a period of 26 hours, week by week.

And I definitely agree about Lindelof.

375. Phil - February 27, 2014

The irony of the complaining about the development of Pine’s Kirk (and I include myself among those who don’t like it) is that Pines Kirk is the embodiment of a young Jean Luc Picard, by Picards own admission. So, yeah, setting aside my own bias, Pines Kirk doesn’t destroy Trek if this also represents a young Picard in the prime universe.

The bang bang pew pew criticism is unfair at the point – Bad Robot has created four hours of content. That’s akin to drawing a conclusion on TOS with a single viewing of Balance of Terror.

Really, everything else is a nit pick. You could level the same criticisms at every Trek movie made, and they would be correct. But Trek isn’t judged on what was wrong with it, but what is right. In the context of a TV production, it becomes much easier to overlook the flaws that way.

376. Kara - February 27, 2014

Why are my posts being censored?

377. Phil - February 27, 2014

@376. It’s a moderated site. There is filtration software on this site, and it does quarantine some posts where certain words appear. The moderators are volunteers, so sometimes it takes a bit for them to clear the queue.

378. Kara - February 27, 2014

Never mind, now it is showing up. Thank you, webmaster.

379. Keachick - February 27, 2014

#373 Marja – I agree with your summation.

Pine’s Kirk may appear to be more like a young Picard – or not. Someone being described or describing themselves as a “stack of books on legs” does NOT mean they cannot be other things as well. It is a matter of perspective really. If you see this young Kirk in a bar chatting up an attractive woman, you might be predisposed that that is all this person is capable of doing and being. This, on balance, is a patently absurd assumption and is no less ridiculous than assuming that seeing a young Kirk studiously reading up on his lecture notes could not mean this same Kirk could not chat up a pretty lady in a bar later that evening. Yet this is exactly what so many posters have consistently done.

I despair…

380. Keachick - February 27, 2014

darn it – edit – “…predisposed that…” should read “…predisposed TO THINK that…”

381. Cygnus-X1 - February 27, 2014

372. Disinvited – February 27, 2014

I don’t envy you this path you’ve set yourself upon. You seems dangerously close to declaring all printed STAR TREK as not measuring up or at least not being relevant and I am well-aware that a sizeable faction of fans enjoy/enjoyed reading their Trek in various forms.

Regarding Star Trek TAS, the only one of those episodes that I recall having any substance was the one with Spock in The Forge on Vulcan. Most (or all) of the others were just about bad aliens that Kirk and crew had to defeat and bad situations that they had to get out of, but there really wasn’t much more to them than that. I found them so boring after a while that I had to force myself to finish watching all of them. Not surprising being that they were intended primarily for children.

Regarding Trek in print, I honestly can’t opine because I haven’t read any of them. My experience with comic books comes from my youth—The Dark Knight was the most impressive series that I read during that time—and I never read any Star Trek comics. But, in any case, a comic book is very heavy on drawings and very light on words. Comics and movies/TV seem like very different experiences and not necessarily comparable. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised to find a Trek comic that put forth some interesting premises/concepts/ideas, though I would be surprised if they were as well developed as in a feature film or TV episode. A Trek novel of 200-300 pages or whatever would definitely have the means to develop and tell a rich, meaningful story, though I haven’t read any Trek novels yet.

My point wasn’t strictly about comic books as a medium, so don’t get bogged down in that. My point was regarding the style, purpose and values comprised in and represented by the comic-book movies of the past couple of decades. I enjoyed Iron Man and found it a respectable movie—one of the best comic-book movies that I’ve seen—but, that’s a big fish in a shallow pond, and I wasn’t thinking about it or quoting it the next day, week, month, year. And it’s obviously more fantasy than science fiction, more action than drama. It was a good representation of a comic book (the ones that I used to read) in film—light, visually titillating entertainment loaded with action and just enough of a theme to base a story on. Iron Man is fun. Thor, too. But it’s not what Star Trek should be or was meant to be. Though, I wouldn’t mind seeing a performance like Anthony Hopkins’ in Star Trek.

382. Ahmed - February 27, 2014

=======================
President Obama: ‘I’m Here to Announce That We’re Building Iron Man’ (Video)

At a White House event promoting manufacturing innovation, President Obama said, “I’m here to announce that we’re building Iron Man,” after ticking off advances in cloud computing, metallurgy and weapons building.

The audience broke up laughing at the joke and Obama clearly enjoying himself added, “I’m gonna blast off in a second.” Then the President confessed it was a joke — or was it?

“This has been a secret project we’ve been working on for a long time. Not really. Maybe. It’s classified,” he added.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/president-obama-i-m-announce-684177

=======================

LOL, that was hilarious

383. Cygnus-X1 - February 27, 2014

373. Marja – February 27, 2014

Yes, it’s a different “take” on Spock, but it’s not total “characterization rape” as we may say of some fan fiction. It’s a new and different universe, and so, a slightly different Spock.

Yes, he cries and rages in every movie now, and I understand the premise of Vulcan characters being that they feel intense emotions and, for that reason, have developed the means to keep them repressed, but the “Spock” character in TOS was a character who largely SUCCEEDED at repressing his emotions. That’s what stood him apart, made him different, made him interesting—made him the most popular character on the show, in fact, according to fan mail. What we have now with BR Trek is the most popular TOS character largely changed in his personality, temperment and role with respect to Kirk, McCoy and his job on the Enterprise. With nu-Spock an emotional trainwreck, what role is there for McCoy in the former “troika?” None, which is another problem with BR Trek.

Further, Vulcans in TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY were almost always emotionally repressed characters who usually valued logic and adherence thereto above all else. In ENT, T’Pol became addicted to Trellium-D and began losing the ability to control her emotions, and that arc worked OK with that actress, under those circumstances. But, even so, T’Pol wasn’t an emotional train-wreck all the time. She’d get anxious and sad—had an issue with not facing the death of her mother, which BR lifted for use in ST09—but she kept her composure, her dignity. She broke down in private, not at the climax of every story. And she certainly didn’t fly into rages all the time. T’Pol’s struggle with the effects of Trellium-D and repressing her emotions was done thoughtfully; it was examined and dealt with throughout the arc. It wasn’t just an excuse to have more displays of emotion and action in order to appeal to wider audiences, as it is in BR Trek.

374. Marja – February 27, 2014

Roddenberry also came up with transporters, insofar as physicists have been able to tell, an impossible mechanism. Warp drive, if “folded space,” may be possible some day.

And GR came up with those conceits for the primary reason that HE HAD TO. They couldn’t land the Enterprise on the planets that the crew would be visiting, due to production costs, available technology and a limited budget, so GR came up with a futuristic technology that would bypass that production issue.

Same with warp drive. They needed the Enterprise to be able to get to faraway planets—tens or hundreds of light years away—in order to tell stories about the people and cultures on those planets. This necessitated the invention of a technology that would get the Enterprise where it needed to go from episode to episode.

Remember that bit in the article quoting the writer who advised to never ask the audience to believe in more than one fantastical thing at a time? BR throws fantastical devices around willy nilly, and their fantastical devices are RIDICULOUS. They don’t even bother with the appearance of or attempt at scientific plausibility, futuristic as it might be. The point being, the comparison with Roddenberry’s technological conceits in TOS is not a fair one because GR’s conceits were essential to the very premise of the series. TOS simply could not have been made without inventions along the lines of transporters and warp drive. STID could have been told without the duffel bag transporter. ST09 could have been told without Red Matter, and it would likely have been a better story because the motivation of the villain would probably have changed.

384. Kara - February 27, 2014

Why is it that you people who don’t like the new Star Trek movies continue to have the use the word “rape” in your criticisms?

This is completely inappropriate, and insulting to me and other women here.

To me, it says a lot about the type of people that constantly are negative on the JJA ST movies.

385. Ahmed - February 27, 2014

@384. Kara

I think that you need to read the first comment by Marja, who is a woman btw, before you start accusing people of using that word.

“Yes, it’s a different “take” on Spock, but it’s not total “characterization rape” as we may say of some fan fiction. It’s a new and different universe, and so, a slightly different Spock.”

As for

“To me, it says a lot about the type of people that constantly are negative on the JJA ST movies.”

Well, this is your first post here & you are already misreading comments & attacking people for saying something that they didn’t say. I suggest that you read the comments before posting.

No one here is using that word in the manner that you described. Go ahead, run a search on this page using “rape” as a key word & it will come out only 3 times. First time by Marja at #373, then #383 by Cygnus-X1 who was replying to Marja & then by you.

386. Marja - February 27, 2014

382 Ahmed, Obama really cracks me up sometimes. He’s very witty – and dry – two characteristics of someone with a great sense of humor. He could fly over to my house any time for a drink!

———————————————————————

384 Kara, “Characterization rape” is a term used in fan fiction circles to indicate that a characterIZATION has been completely violated. Thus the term “rape” is applicable, though admittedly quite tasteless. I was using a term that’s been around as long as I’ve been active in the fandom, since around 1982.

But, having had to listen to sexist language for most of my Coast Guard career, I can identify with what you’re feeling, Kara. I probably should have just said “violation of characterization”. I’m sorry I used such an offensive term. It’s old and outdated.

And by the way, I have lots of love for the JJAbrams Trek. Just not all the “bang-bang-pew! pew! beat the crap outta the other guy at a pell-mell pace” stuff. I love the new actors and their characterizations by Orci and Kurtzman. I liked some of the themes in STiD.

Although others here have pointed out that the story of evil old paranoid admiral seems to them hackneyed, I enjoyed the spin-out that revenge makes dangerous fools of us all. Based on Kirk’s speech at the end, I think he and Spock both did things in the course of the story’s events that they regretted, upon later reflection.

387. Kara - February 27, 2014

Thanks Marja, for the explanation. I understand.

Your intelligent response instead of Ahmed’s borderline misogynistic response was sort of the thoughtful explanation that I was hoping for here.

Thank you, Marja

388. Ahmed - February 27, 2014

@387. Kara

“Ahmed’s borderline misogynistic response”

Really ? You know, we already have enough nuts on this sites, guess that I will simply ignore your future posts since you seem to be suffering from paranoia or something like it.

389. Ahmed - February 27, 2014

@ 386. Marja – February 27, 2014

“382 Ahmed, Obama really cracks me up sometimes. He’s very witty – and dry – two characteristics of someone with a great sense of humor. He could fly over to my house any time for a drink!”

Obama is a funny guy, no denying that :)

390. Marja - February 27, 2014

Cygnus, You and I will have to agree to disagree on Spock, then. He did not “fly into rages all the time.” That is a fact. Had he been doing so, he could not have captained the Enterprise in either film. He did a great job both times. The rage thing [in the real world of script construction] may have been the writers using a well-known component of Quinto’s acting arsenal. It may have been their way of using PrimeSpock to get AUKirk into command of the ‘Prise. Who the hell knows, it’s late for debate now.

We can hope that the third film will have a Spock annealed into maturity and better emo control from his experiences. Yes, one thing that makes the character interesting is his struggle with emotions. I think he has been struggling, just not in the way you would like, and not in the way of TOS Spock, reasons for the differences being ones I pointed out already at 374.

Okay, the movie writers piled handwavium on top of handwavium. As I said, they didn’t have 26 episodes in which to do that.

I think many of the other “short hand” devices like Red Matter and a portable transwarp transporter strained the camel’s back, and the giant Vengeance ship broke it, but again, 2-hour movie, stuff comes atcha, you’re not checking your iPhone, people are gettin’ whacked every whichaway, it’s exciting, we’re [willingly or unwillingly] part of an adolescent audience, ta-ra-ta-ra. What can I say. I wish they had more time per movie, I wish they could do it on TV. I wish they had the chance to stretch out a story and tell it over time, with more scientific and dramatic logic.

And lord knows, I’d love for the “villains” to have been different. In fact I’d love a movie without an operatic type villain to start with.

And yes, I will feel free to compare the nonsense in TWOK with these two movies. As for TOS, point taken. To a point.

I give you: cold start of the warp engines [Naked Time]; a time-travel machine, the Guardian of Forever [City on the Edge…]; the premise of an unsustainable military in “Mirror, Mirror;” two planets infested by Earth history [“Piece of the Action” and “Patterns of Force”]; one planet identical in every way to Earth [“Miri”]; one planet very very similar to Earth [“Bread and Circuses”]; a love drug [“Mudd’s Women”]; a computer-maintained pleasure planet on which the dead can be brought back to life [“Shore Leave”]; a mechanical entity that can kill and bring humans back to life [“The Changeling”] … need I go on?

Yes, they were all fantastical, and yes, they could all be considered SciFi, but put the plot devices of, say, three episodes into one movie and you have “unbelievable” ST XI and STiD.

391. Cygnus-X1 - February 27, 2014

390. Marja – February 27, 2014

I know that nu-Spock doesn’t fly into rages ALL the time. But, he’s an emotional train-wreck compared even to his human crew-mates, let alone Vulcans.

Regarding the technological conceits, the issue is not just about fantastical devices that don’t exist today. It’s about how they are used in the stories, the plot purposes for which they are conceived, their implications for the Trek world, and the benefits that they yield unto the stories and their themes, i.e. whether they earn their existence.

392. Marja - February 27, 2014

379 Keachick [good to see ya Rose!], I agree completely on Kirk. Though I’m not crazy about the way O&K have used young Kirk and put him in The Chair and taken him out and put him right back, somehow Pine brings intelligence and well-meaning verve to the character, even as written, that makes me believe he’s a young [and more damaged] version of the Kirk everybody knows from TOS. And yes, I think even TOS Kirk would have, once he put down his stack of books at the end of his Academy day, might have gone to a bar and chatted up a young lady. I don’t quite see him getting into bar fights, but different universes, slightly different Kirks.

393. Marja - February 27, 2014

391 Cygnus, Perhaps I responded on “automatic” but I’m just sick of reading that “Spock’s crying all the time” or “raging all the time” which is total BS by my lights, just like the line about Uhura only being there to be “Spock’s whiny girlfriend.”

Reminder, Spock’s human crewmates have not [at least in STXI] been through the same emotional wringer that Spock has. Planet. Mom. 99% of his race, dead, dead, dead.

Did the fantastical devices earn their existence? Ahhhh, the scripting debates we’ve had, and will continue to have, Cygnus. In many parts I agree with you completely. You do have some solid story-telling advice for the writers and in general. While we disagree on things, I do enjoy our debates.

394. Cygnus-X1 - February 28, 2014

393. Marja – February 27, 2014

Cheers!

395. NCC-73515 - February 28, 2014

Hey boborci,
Karl Urban said in Frankfurt that there is already a story idea, and that shooting for the next film might begin by the end of this year. Can you confirm that?
Btw, I think an article here about the DSTG con would be nice.

396. dswynne - February 28, 2014

Marja: I’m not going say much, since I respect your term of service in the US Coast Guard, something I could never do at the time of my first of many attempts to enlist in the US Armed Services. However, to say that the Democrats are willing to compromise on spending is patently false. For years, only the rate of growth of spending has been adjusted, not actual cuts in the budget. That’s the main beef that the TEA Party has with both Democrats and Republicans. The TEA Party want actual spending cuts, something that both parties (for different reasons) do not want to do. In fact, they (collectively speaking) are perfectly willing to sit out during elections, just to send a message that they will not support any Republican candidate if he or she is not strong on a lean tax-and-spend policy. Personally, I think this is foolish thinking (which got Obama re-elected), but these people are sincere in their cause. Even if you do not agree with them (as an indication of you declaring your political philosophy), you should do your research. Try Wikipedia as a start.

And thank you for your service.

397. I am not Herbert - February 28, 2014

Thanks Ahmed!: “President Obama: ‘I’m Here to Announce That We’re Building Iron Man’ (Video)”

HEH! EXCELLENT! =D

“I’m gonna blast off in a second…”

“This has been a secret project we’ve been working on for a long time…”

“not really… maybe… it’s classified… ” ;-)

398. Lore - February 28, 2014

Back to the burning question of the day. Is Shatner going to end up being the oldest living man ever?

399. I am not Herbert - February 28, 2014

“The sun, the moon and the stars would have disappeared long ago… had they happened to be within the reach of predatory human hands.”

Henry Havelock Ellis, British author

400. Mad Mann - February 28, 2014

So it seems that Bob Orci is frequenting the boards as he is writing Trek 3. (13?) Here’s some requests, if he sees it:

a. Make Kirk the actual leader! I’d like to see him walk onto the bridge with the swagger of a confident captain, NOT the swagger of a frat-boy (as in the past two movies.) He is the boss and the crew are his subordinates. nuff said

b. Go more sci-fi! (idk: universe is unraveling due to use of Red Matter or something?)

c. Keep the story new and fresh but with a sprinkling of TOS mentions and Easter eggs. Into Darkness drew TOO much from ST2 TWOK. Balance, dude. It’s like rotational equilibrium.

d. Klingons! But it’d be cool if the Klingons only speak Klingon the whole movie. Perhaps have Kor or Kang and Mara? Just a sprinkle of TOS, though.

e. Speaking of TOS, just use any references from the show, but avoid anymore references from the films. Into Darkness did that enough already.

f. Keep up the humor, emotion, action, and most of all the fun from the other two recent Trek movies. Those are their best qualities!

g. Lastly: more of the Bones/Spock/Kirk triumvirate. thanks

401. Ahmed - February 28, 2014

@400. Mad Mann

“a. Make Kirk the actual leader! I’d like to see him walk onto the bridge with the swagger of a confident captain, NOT the swagger of a frat-boy (as in the past two movies.) He is the boss and the crew are his subordinates. nuff said”

YES, for once I want to see CAPTAIN Kirk, not some jacka$$ who was given the flagship of the fleet.

I agree with most of your other points, except for having Klingons. I’d rather that they meet a new & interesting race out there deep in the space than seeing another familiar alien race like they did in the last 2 movies.

402. Phil - February 28, 2014

@395. No news there. Almost every member of the cast has ventured an opinion on shooting start, director, and/or a release date, and so far, there’s been no agreement. When Bob says he’s working on it, it’s best to interpret that comment on the broadest of terms.

403. Phil - February 28, 2014

@396. Not going to get into a protracted debate on this – having spoken personally with people who identify with, or are sympathetic to, the Tea Party platform, I’d have to disagree with your assertion on their position on spending – they are just as fond of gov’t spending as their GOP and Democratic counterparts, and when pressed on their ‘live within our means’ propaganda, they have a shockingly bad understanding on how bad the deficit/ national debt issue is. Basically, they have no issue on spending, they want to see more of it on ‘their’ issues. The closest political group in the US who tend to advocate for a balanced budget are the Libertarians, and that is one of the reasons they remain a minor party – for all the chatter about actually balancing the budget, no one really wants to do it. The surpluses in the budget during the Clinton years are nothing but a dim memory for most of the electorate these days. Yep, it took a Democrat to get the job done, so it’s not that they are not capable, the electorate needs to know why., and at them moment, they are not interested.

404. MJ - February 28, 2014

@403

Well, the combination of of fiscally conservative Democrat (Clinton) and a pre-Tea Party Republican Congress who still had some Ford/Reagan classical type Republicans before the wackos took their party over.

405. MJ - February 28, 2014

@ Kara

You obviously misinterpreted Marja’s comment, and you unfairly lashed out at Ahmed.

Nevertheless, you bring up a valid point. There have been several instances of posters here using the term “rape” over the past couple years, and in every case, the term has been used in a way critical of JJ-Trek.

People should refrain from using that term to make their anti nuTrek posts — it cheapens their arguments and makes them look bad.

406. Dswynne - February 28, 2014

Phil, that’s incorrect, and I say this because the TEA Party is perfectly willing to support yahoos (like that one TEA Party candidate in Missouri Todd Akin in 2012) solely because of the tax-and-spend policies, which is why the GOP are now actively going against the TEA Party. These people, the same ones who thought that both McCain and Romney were too moderate to support, are perfectly willing to let the country default on its debt obligations, as a way of teaching everyone a lesson. As much as I agree with them philosophically, I’m not going to support such an extreme position, because they are wrong. That’s all I’m saying.

407. MJ - February 28, 2014

@406

No, Phil is correct. I remember a few years back when the Tea Partly claimed that troops and defense spending should be reduced to help the deficit. Now, I see the leaders of the same Tea Party trying to make Obama’s troop and defense cuts out to be un-American.

All they want to do is gain power. Winning and bludgeoning the opponent is what it is all about. It’s the same with the ultra liberals as well — look at how condescending and dismissive I am Not Herbert is towards people not sharing his viewpoint

The extremists on both sides are taking our county down the shit-hole.

408. Ahmed - February 28, 2014

A new Matrix trilogy MIGHT be on the way :)

=====================================
Rumor: Is a New MATRIX Trilogy in Development?

The folks over at Latino Review are reporting that writers/directors Lana Wachowski and Andy Wachowski are currently developing a new trilogy of Matrix films, with treatments and outlines already being handed into the studio. Whether these new movies will be sequels or prequels is unclear, as is whether they’ll also be directed by the Wachowski Siblings.

http://collider.com/new-matrix-trilogy-wachowskis/

=====================================

I hope this is true, The Matrix is my favorite movie of all time & I will be first in line when the new trilogy come out.

409. MJ - February 28, 2014

I could go for another Matrix movie, but I am not sure we need three new Matrix movies.

410. Red Dead Ryan - February 28, 2014

“Matrix 4″? No thanks. The first movie is a classic, and works well on its own.The sequels were unnecessary, and they ended up over-explaining everything. The fight scenes became ridiculously fancy-schmancy “dances”, and Agent Smith became tiresome by the third movie. The narrative had become technobabble-like, which nearly spoiled the original premise of a tightly-controlled cyberworld.

The first film had substance, explored the perils of humans becoming too dependent on machines, and featured mind-blowing sequences that were not overdone and overused like they were in the sequels.

411. Ahmed - February 28, 2014

@ 409. MJ – February 28, 2014

“I could go for another Matrix movie, but I am not sure we need three new Matrix movies.”

These days Hollywood favors doing trilogies, from the new Star Wars trilogy to Spider-Man trilogy and so on, even the JJ-Trek is a trilogy.

412. Marja - March 1, 2014

dswynne, “However, to say that the Democrats are willing to compromise on spending is patently false.” Actually, it’s not. Notice my choice of words. I try on this board to be very careful about writing. The Dems certainly have been willing to compromise on the amount of spending, giving in to the Republicans, who’ve been pretty much driven “rightward” by the Tea Party, reducing spending on programs vital to supporting early childhood education, support of mothers-to-be who are in the working poor class, and helping raise the minimum wage, which is astonishingly low and nearly impossible for even single people to live on. All this is symptomatic of the right’s belief in “voodoo economics” – sorry, “supply-side” economics, a “system” that has failed to operate in the way it’s said to operate over the last 30 years. The only thing it’s achieved is widening the gap between rich and poor and eviscerating the middle class.

“For years, only the rate of growth of spending has been adjusted, not actual cuts in the budget. That’s the main beef that the TEA Party has with both Democrats and Republicans.” Yes, that is quite true, and the Koch Brothers and other extremely rich corporations and people with interests in living and doing business tax-free have invested big money in “educating” people about how being free of taxes will help them. It doesn’t.

Unfortunately this reluctance to spend money, locally, statewide, and nationally has led to terrible deterioration in this country’s and local infrastructure, which hurts everyone. Try waiting a couple of hours for an ambulance or the police, as happens in cities with huge municipal budget cuts.

The 2013 dog-and-pony show of shutting down the Federal Government cost the US economy/GDP $24 billion — lost wages [which would be spent on groceries, gas &c], lost tourism spending, creating jobs [private jobs, not government jobs], and so on. This is from two different sources, and the figures above are from Standard & Poors, not Wikipedia.

I don’t buy anything the Tea Party says, because much of their funding and spokesmanship is provided by rich corporate interests and funneled through Roger Ailes’s network, FOX news.

I was a libertarian in the early 1980s, so I understand the mindset, and even if every single millionaire had philanthropic tendencies we still wouldn’t be able to run the country.

413. Marja - March 1, 2014

400 Mad Mann and 401 Ahmed, Here’s hoping Kirk is now “seasoned” enough to be well on his way to being the Kirk we remember from TOS. He’s lost crew due to his revenge-seeking and frank impulsiveness, so [i hope] learned from those tragic experiences. [I hope he wrote condolence letters to every family who lost a Starfleet son or daughter or spouse!]

I loved seeing that moment in STiD when Kirk bluffed Adm Marcus [briefly]. That was a good sign of Kirk’s tactical thinking, but he was so vastly [unfairly, Bob Orci!] outgunned. I loved seeing Spock speaking to Kirk as a concerned first officer. I loved seeing Spock faking Khan out with the “torpedos” [as weird and convoluted as that particular sub-plot was with the people inside and so on]. I loved seeing Uhura facing the Klingons and bluffing them [even though the moment ended far too soon]. I loved the dressing-down Pike gave Kirk and Spock, but the reason and result were just … weird again.

Alas for STiD but — I hope that, like their Kirk, Bob & Alex have heard from the fans, and “heard” the fans, so they make other, better choices in writing the new script, and hopefully the next movie will knock everyones’ socks off. Not with relentless action, but with relentlessly good writing and a heartfelt script with a deep meaning [some of which I personally saw in STiD] and Orci’s love of the characters and Star Trek on display. And personally, I say again, I like Spock and Uhura, though I didn’t care for the “public” discussion of their personal relationship while they were on duty. The same discussion could have been a private one. I confess, though, I did like Spock’s “public declaration of love” to Uhura done in his erudite Vulcan way.

And, please, I’m begging, a Sci Fi oriented story instead of a villain/revenge story …

414. Dswynne - March 1, 2014

Marja, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. For every Koch, there is a Soros who are funding left-wing causes (I.e the Open Society Movement). Also, the reason for the difference in income inequality is because of monetary policy from the Feds, which prints cheap money to invest in the stock market as a patchwork way to keep the economy afloat. Financial institutions and the wealthy take advantage of this, and are able to get richer. And philosophically, at what point are individuals culpable for their own actions? Are we so needy as a nation that we are willing to give up our own individualism, our sense of personal responsibility, just for the guarantee of a safety net, by expanding the role of government in our lives? If that’s the direction we as a society has chosen, then we’re done as as a nation, because that national debt is not going to pay for itself, but someone has to pay it.

But, I’m done, lest I attract the attention of the moderators for being off-topic.

415. MJ - March 1, 2014

Dsywynne,

The reason this country’s deficit is so messed up, is that Bush cut taxes, then immediately proceeds to “credit card charge” two trillion dollar wars.

Take away that tax cut and those two incredibly expense wars, and we’d be just fine fiscally today.

This is a fact!

And the 3-year great recession would likely have been just a standard 12 month one.

416. MJ - March 1, 2014

“Are we so needy as a nation that we are willing to give up our own individualism, our sense of personal responsibility, just for the guarantee of a safety net, by expanding the role of government in our lives?”

Take a vacation to Norway. You will see more wealthy people that anywhere in the world, yet no homeless people. They are thriving. They don’t view capitalism and socialism as enemies. They use their brains and make both work.

417. MJ - March 1, 2014

..and in terms of economic growth, Canada has been kicking our ass for a decade now.

418. Marja - March 1, 2014

MJ, Thank you sir, I couldn’t have said it better. All of it.

419. Toonloon - March 2, 2014

Wow. Still no updates since the 17th. Yawn.

420. RIP Trek - March 2, 2014

#419, for a franchise that’s been basically been dead since the 90’s, I’m not surprised.

421. Mad Mann - March 2, 2014

@419. Check out Trekcore. That site is updated quite often. They just had a story about the deleted scenes from into Darkness.

422. Keachick - March 2, 2014

The word “rape” has been used by various posters on this and other internet sites to describe JJA’s present Star Trek iterations ever since the first movie was released – five years ago in May this year. It was no less inappropriate and insulting then either. Rape is a serious, prosecutable crime and for people to keep referring to the changes made in these ST iterations as “rape” trivializes the serious nature of the crime.

Kara – I agree with you and have done so since 2009. If I have read these posts correctly, Marja was simply quoting a previous post.

As for this new Kirk, I don’t agree with Ahmed’s (and other posters who share his opinion) summation of this Kirk. I think a difference is that this new Kirk operates more by consensus than by a strict hierarchical authoritarian model. Actually, TOS’s Kirk did not always operate this way either and this could be seen in instances, where he clearly DID assert his captain’s authority. This younger Kirk is even less authoritarian in his style. That does not make him a “frat-boy” or anything else.

It is clear that the crew do respect and can/will take orders from this new Kirk, just as they did for the prime universe Kirk.

Some of the comments made against this new Kirk are petulant, silly and, well, unkind.

423. Ahmed - March 2, 2014

@422. Keachick

“I think a difference is that this new Kirk operates more by consensus than by a strict hierarchical authoritarian model. ”

No captain in a military or semi-military organization runs his ship by “consensus”, ask Marja & she will attest to that. A captain might seek the advice of his XO & other officers but the final decision remains with the captain & the captain only .

As Captain Ramsey put it:

“We’re here to preserve democracy, not practice it.”

424. Keachick - March 2, 2014

I am aware of that, Ahmed. Of course, the final decision is the captain’s. In this alternate universe, as in the prime universe, both Captain Kirks gave commands and they were carried out by those under his command. However, I do think that how the new captain reached his decisions may have been slightly different from the prime captain – but not by much. Even in a democracy, there has to be someone who will make/confirm the actual decision and see that it is carried out.

There is a natural heirarchy, as in found in social groupings (human and other). All organizations, military and other, base their operation upon this, with the military being the most strict and authoritarian of organizations. Bear in mind that Starfleet is not a strict military organization, despite what Admiral Marcus may have wished…

Oh and Hi there, Ahmed, Marja, I am not Herbert, MJ et al. I hope all is well with you all, wherever you may be!

425. Mad Mann - March 2, 2014

Hi Keachick.

I am sorry if I offended you, but I do not think calling a fictional character a “frat-boy” is unkind to him. Because, you know, he’s fictional.

But my point is this: when I watched ALL of the other actors (J Hunter, W Shattner, P Stewart, A Brooks, K Mulgrew, S Bakula) portray a captain, they would walk on to the bridge of a starship with such a confidence and authority that the audience would KNOW he/she is in charge. I just do not see it with Chris Pine. And I do not think it was his fault since I fully believe he can do it. It’s just that the story didn’t call for it.

I just miss seeing a captain that IS the captain.

Oh, and BTW: Benedict Cumberbatch wins the Oscars for photobombing U2!!

426. Curious Cadet - March 2, 2014

Oscars are playing out pretty predictably.

Gravity and 12 Years A Slave are gonna take it all.

Looking at it again, I’m still kind of surprised Gravity won for best EFX over STID, which was nothing if not a visual spectacle. I guess the difference is Gravity did something fresh and original, inventing new technology to do it, and for all it’s brilliance STID brought us more of the same.

Nevertheless, having two sci-fi films up for best picture is still pretty amazing, even if they aren’t going to win.

427. Basement Blogger - March 2, 2014

It’s time for the awards for the Oscars, Star Trek edition. .

1. “The I Got Screwed” Martin Scorsese Award goes to Star Trek Into Darkness’ special effects team. They lost to Gravity. Look, STID took us to twenty third century earth. We got a look at the Klingon home world. And we got to see two starships. Oh, yeah there was that jetpack space scene.

2. The Year of the Cumberbatch. Our man, Benedict Cumberbatch was all over the place in 2013. STID. The Fifth Estate. The Hobbitt. 12 Years A Slave.

3. In memoriam. Writer Richard Matheson. He also wrote a Star Trek episode, TOS, “The Enemy Within.”

4. Best ruby slippers. Whoopi Goldberg.

5. I miss last year’s host Seth MacFarlane. Look, his opening was outrageous and funny. He improvised well. And he got William Shatner to do a Star Trek bit.

Ellen Degeneres was funny in the beginning. But she went into David Letterman territory with the pizza thing. Not all that funny. And enough with the selfies. Okay, she did crash Twitter and the call out to Harvey Weinstein was funny. The show got duller after that. And enough with the songs. They’re show killers. Present the awards, folks. .

6. Best evil Spock goatee. Harrison Ford.

428. Vultan - March 2, 2014

Best Alternative to watching the Oscars:
Big Trouble in Little China

Always fun, never pretentious.

429. MJ - March 2, 2014

This years songs weren’t so great. But last years, with Adele and Shirly Bassey were phenomenal. So I think it is a matter of what songs they do, not should or shouldn’t they do songs.

Ellen blue MacFarlane out of the water. Not even close. Billy Crystal, Johnny Carson, Bob Hope and Ellen are just a level above everyone else.

430. Ahmed - March 3, 2014

=================================
EXCLUSIVE! ‘Into Darkness’ Deleted Scenes, Part II

Today we can present the rest of the Star Trek Into Darkness deleted scenes, available exclusively through the film’s Xbox SmartGlass second-screen app.

………………..

As far as we know, this is the last of the retailer-exclusive content for Star Trek Into Darkness, and even though it’s taken almost six months for us to find it, we’re glad the deleted scenes question can finally be put to bed with these nine entries.

Here’s hoping they become available in a more widely-available format for fans at some point in the future.

http://trekcore.com/blog/2014/03/exclusive-into-darkness-deleted-scenes-part-ii/
==============================

Paramount sucks big time by keeping this from blu-ray release. Granted, I don’t care much about STID blu-ray version but my concern that Paramount will do it again with the next movie.

431. Danpaine - March 3, 2014

James Doohan’s birthday today, born on this day in 1920.

R.I.P. He was a class act.

432. Phil - March 3, 2014

@430. Well, considering all the griping about STID, it’s good to see they deleted some of the bigger brain farts in the script….

433. Marja - March 3, 2014

430 Ahmed, Man, that scene with Pike’s death doesn’t make ANY sense as written.

434. Ahmed - March 3, 2014

@432. Phil

Reading the deleted scenes, the script sounds even worse than the final version if that even possible.

435. Mad Mann - March 3, 2014

@430 Ahmed:

Yes, Paramount really screwed over the home video market. If you look at the by the numbers website, STiD home video sales is much lower compared to ST2009 and many other genre movies from 2013.

I think that Para may have made more money off these exclusives deals with retailers, but in the end it turns the fans against them. And that is stupid.

436. Curious Cadet - March 3, 2014

@434. Ahmed,

Oh it’s possible. With no slight to Orci & Kurtzman, they seem to be responding to a lot of chefs — Abrams, Lindeloff, Paramount, Zoe, etc.

Given that, I have no trouble believing the final script was an absolute disaster of ideas they had to cram into the script to appease all the factions. So, I don’t think we can draw to many concrete conclusions from this “evidence”, other than it’s part of the normal process of filmmaking.

Perhaps we can glean that these guys put it off for so long that it cost them the time most films would otherwise have had to polish this script up to eliminate some of these scenes before they went into production.

437. Ahmed - March 3, 2014

@435. Mad Mann

“Yes, Paramount really screwed over the home video market. If you look at the by the numbers website, STiD home video sales is much lower compared to ST2009 and many other genre movies from 2013. ”

True, just looking at the numbers, it is very clear that Paramount screwed up big time.

Star Trek 2009

Home Market Performance
Domestic DVD Sales: $102,271,134

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2009/TRK11.php

Star Trek Into Darkness

Home Market Performance

Domestic DVD Sales $14,800,676
Domestic Blu-ray Sales $35,784,447

Total Domestic Video Sales $50,585,123

http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Star-Trek-2-%282012%29#tab=summary

438. Ahmed - March 3, 2014

@433. Marja

“430 Ahmed, Man, that scene with Pike’s death doesn’t make ANY sense as written.”

Guess it was an indicative of the state of the final script, since lot of other scenes didn’t make any sense at all in the movie.

439. Phil - March 3, 2014

The Numbers, is at best, a snapshot – while a drop off from Trek 09’s numbers isn’t surprising, the information presented on The Numbers cuts off prior to the holiday shopping season, so we know DVD/Blue-ray sales will have exceeded 50.5MM. It would also be interesting to know the worldwide numbers…

Between this, and the deleted scenes that are making the rounds, this just solidifies what we already know, that STID is a renter.

440. drumvan - March 3, 2014

the deleted scenes are on youtube if you care to view them. apparently have been for a couple weeks.

441. drumvan - March 3, 2014

youtube search “stid deleted scene”.

442. Martin - March 3, 2014

More star trek into darkness deleted scenes part 2 on trekcore
http://trekcore.com/blog/2014/03/exclusive-into-darkness-deleted-scenes-part-ii/

443. NuFan - March 3, 2014

Blu-Ray. How quaint.

Do Amazon Prime and iTunes frighten you?

Star Trek Into Darkness ancillary revenue was third best for 2013. Much higher than projected.

444. Kevin - March 3, 2014

@443. NuFan

Some of like to actually own what we pay for in a permanent form. Not to mention the picture quality, etc., is better than streaming (even on a fast connection).

445. Ahmed - March 3, 2014

@444. Kevin

“Not to mention the picture quality, etc., is better than streaming (even on a fast connection).”

Indeed. I’ve a very fast connection, yet when I watch a movie on Netflix, the picture quality is no match to Blu-ray quality.

446. Dswynne - March 3, 2014

MJ: Said I wouldn’t respond to more on this topic, so I won’t (and, man, can I refute what you just wrote). Gotta keep my word. Some other time, perhaps…

447. Ahmed - March 3, 2014

@446. Dswynne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKkMkodo4MI :)

448. martin - March 3, 2014

Trekmovie sucks for news updates lately

I have only counted only 75 news articles from may 13 – present
that’s about 10 months.

449. Basement Blogger - March 3, 2014

@ 430

Thank you Ahmed for that news. Thee’s one thing I think we all agree on. It stinks that STID’s special features were spread across many release outlets. Best Buy features versus Target, etc. There comes a time where a company will anger the customer by squeezing every cent out of them. I don’t know how Trekkers revolt. Maybe we tell Paramount, we are not going for it. Just buy one version.

450. MJ - March 3, 2014

@446. Not much to refute. I have been to Norway and Canada several time in recent years. I have seen first hand that their economy and system are in much better shape than ours. I don’t need to rely on blogs or talking heads — I saw it for myself.

451. I am not Herbert - March 4, 2014

yep… i’ve been threatening to move to Canada for decades now… ;-)

they’ve got some SWEET mountain bike trails! =D

Hi Rose! =)

452. Curious Cadet - March 4, 2014

@439. Phil,
“The Numbers, is at best, a snapshot… cuts off prior to the holiday shopping season, so we know DVD/Blue-ray sales will have exceeded 50.5MM.”

While I don’t disagree, the DVD sales only in the first week alone for ST09 were 3.5 million units, compared to STID’s total first week combined DVD & BlueRay sales of half that at only 1.5 million, and that was the week BEFORE Thanksgiving. There is no such surge leading up to Thanksgiving 2013.

Granted holiday sales can add a number of units to that, but we’re wildly speculating to say that holiday sales accounts for over 1.5 million DVD & Blu-Ray sales missing from STID’s release week (assuming more BluRay are sold over DVDs 4 years later — you still have to add a large number of BluRays to ST09 pushing the release totals well past 3 million). The sales figures fall off dramatically after ST09’s first week, and that WAS the actual week of Black Friday, when sales should have gone up. In fact STID’s sales perform predictably as compared to ST09 4 years earlier.

Like you I would love to see the international sales for STID which I would speculate played out far better than ST09 did international, and quite likely mirrored those domestic DVD sales from 4 years ago, holiday or no.

And you can’t discount those who prefer to download movies now, rather than collect discs, especially since the extras were not all available on a single disc. But I’m not sure that number can come close to accounting for over 1.5 million sales, holiday or no.

Like it or no, this “snapshot” of STID’s video sales may well demonstrate the ennui with which some fans viewed the film, along with the outrage of those who felt like they were being short-changed with the disc extras being broken-up and disbursed over multiple editions, at least domestically. Though I will concede, it took several weeks for that to get sorted out. Perhaps people postponed their purchase until they knew which edition they were going to buy? Heck, perhaps the numbers even surge after the holidays as people buy multiple editions so they can have all the extras. Then again, maybe not.

453. Lemingsworth Bint - March 4, 2014

443

Yeah, I saw that it’s done $56 million in digital sales, but I just need to have the thing in my hot little hands, so it’s blu-ray for me.

454. Keachick - March 5, 2014

#433 – Why does that scene not make sense? Are you meaning *sense* in a material or in another way?

Pike being injured/killed makes perfect sense in that they were being fired upon and many other people were being wounded/killed as well. However special Pike may be, he is also mortal.

Yes, one can be unkind to a character. Any fictional character cannot help but represent certain very human traits and actions, because the character was created by humans. I will leave it at that because I am having difficulty putting into words right now just what I am trying to convey. Perhaps someone else may know what I am trying to get at? Hopefully?

455. Phil - March 5, 2014

@452. Actually, I was not speculating at all that holiday sales would make up the difference – I would expect a surge during the season, but I would expect that for any of the popular titles released last year. The rising tide floats all boats, after all.

If there is any blowback on the DVD Blue-ray sales, it’s probably because of the mix-and-match format the special features were released on. The idea of specific content to specific vendors reeks of extortion, and a fair amount of hubris on Paramounts part that fans would just buy up multiple copies to have all the special features. Can’t say I’m losing a lot of sleep over the fact that that marketing farce blew up in their faces…just wish they would have done that with a different franchise…

456. Marja - March 6, 2014

454, Rose, I was speaking of the deleted scene. As it appeared in the movie, the scene made much more sense, and more sense for Kirk’s character as well.

Deleted Scene: Pike gets shot; as he drags himself along the floor Kirk turns from helping someone to see him and yells, then goes to him, and they have a moment, then Spock comes over, and Kirk leaves Pike and Spock to go save everyone by defending against the aircraft, which mysteriously flies off then comes back. Meanwhile Marcus is yelling. Yes, Kirk sees Pike nearly breathing his last, but this part serves little purpose. The basic facts are that Pike is lost to Kirk, and Kirk goes to defend everyone.

Movie Scene: Kirk is helping others. When Pike is shot, Kirk doesn’t see it b/c he is looking at the Big Picture, which is, an aircraft is shooting the hell out of the room. Marcus, meanwhile, hides behind a pillar where he won’t get shot. Kirk, ignoring any danger to himself, runs to defend others by battling the aircraft as best he can figure out. [Big Picture, Man of Action] When he shoots it down and sees Khan de-materialize he goes back to the room and sees Pike fatally injured, dead, as he finds out from Spock, and weeps. [Kirk has lost a father figure before he could say good-bye.] So very beautifully done by Pine, too.

To me the movie scene makes a lot more sense and, for Kirk, seems much truer to his character [seeing the Big Picture, taking Action to defend others], and brings pathos with the loss of his Father Figure when Kirk was away taking action – much as his own father was when he himself was born.

JMHO :-)

457. Keachick - March 6, 2014

#456 – Marja – I agree that the final movie version of that scene is the better one by far and with your summation above.
It also shows Admiral Marcus just about saving himself and not doing anything to help others, unlike Kirk and Spock.

458. dmduncan - March 8, 2014

Of course Canada is doing “well.” Canada has corporations every bit as greedy and insensitive as you’d find in America.

Transcanada is an example.

Do me a favor, Canada, and put a leash on your frakkin dog.

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