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Sorry, Netflix & CBS Not in Talks To Produce New Show June 10, 2014

by Brian Drew , Filed under: CBS/Paramount,Rumor,Trek on TV , trackback

A new story is making the rounds claiming that, while at Phoenix Comicon this past weekend,  author Larry Nemecek (Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion, Star Trek Stellar Cartography) revealed that Netflix and CBS are “in talks” regarding a new Star Trek series.  The story made a big splash, since it’s not so crazy to think that Netflix, who has hit it big with recent original shows Orange is the New Black and House of Cards, would look to Star Trek, one of its top performers in streaming TV, for a new series. In a blog post on his web site, Nemecek refutes the story:

…this non-bylined writer known only as “Starfleet Intelligence” is too wrapped up in tossing around jazzy phrases of TheBizSpeak in this post, and has the situation blown up way too big —though it makes a nice screaming headline…it’s in Netflix’s interest to be casting about for new shows—including those from known franchises. I understand Star Trek is one of them—especially as Trek’s 737 hours of “reruns” performs as a top draw ON Netflix. As I understand it, there have been overtures.  But none taken. So far.

You can read the entire post here.

Comments

1. Sebastian Prooth - June 10, 2014

I know they’re not – but they should be!

2. CmdrR - June 10, 2014

Just do it!!!!!

3. Marja - June 10, 2014

They should be indeed. Capitalize on the interested casual fans Abrams Trek has brought the franchise and thrill this fan [and those of my ilk] by bringing the present Enterprise crew to Netflix!!!

Yeah! [Cheers] Make it so!!!

4. ados - June 10, 2014

This new TV show is coming…where..when and what about…is to be seen

5. Keachick (Rose) - June 10, 2014

#3 Yes, along with the present actors who play them and have blu-ray/DVD copies made of the series for those who cannot see Netflix, live outside the US.

On another thread, someone put forward the idea (jokingly perhaps) that BBC America should take over the television side of the franchise and make a series…interesting idea. It means that the British get to own the TV side, but then again, Americans never had any stake in Star Trek, unlike the British with their Dr Who series.

6. Ctrl-Opt-Del - June 10, 2014

What a Spocktease…

7. Scott Gammans - June 10, 2014

Despite all the denials, I still believe in my heart of hearts that this WILL happen.

Just not today, sadly.

8. Cygnus-X1 - June 10, 2014

Netflix in-house would be a great producer for a new Trek series!!

There’s no denying the addictive quality of their two current in-house productions, House of Cards and Orange is the New Black, which are also fairly deep, sophisticated shows—definitely not ankle-deep brain-candy. House of Cards is actually a favorite of both the President and Congress, which, if nothing else, speaks to its relevance.

And it makes sense that Netflix would want to produce a new Trek series, given this:

Netflix doesn’t release streaming numbers, but market research firms frequently list Star Trek in its various forms as the most streamed content on Netflix.

9. SirMartman - June 10, 2014

Bring back “Enterprise”

push it to new highs !

10. Gary 8.5 - June 10, 2014

Just another rumor that gets blown up into more than it is .

11. Gary 8.5 - June 10, 2014

Just another rumor that gets blown up into more than it is .

12. Gary 8.5 - June 10, 2014

Sorry about the double post .
I thought that the first one didn’t go.

13. I am not Herbert - June 10, 2014

MAKE IT SO!!!

…now in other news…

14. I am not Herbert - June 10, 2014

The Counter-Conservative movement can only be helped by the replacement of Wall Street Republicans by chicken-head biters.

House Maj Leader Eric Cantor became the first person in American history to lose his primary while holding that role.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/10/1306004/-Holy-smokes-Eric-Cantor-loses-GOP-primary-to-absolutely-unknown-underfunded-challenger

15. I am not Herbert - June 10, 2014

Marja: yeah, no. this would be REAL Star Trek! =D

16. dswynne - June 11, 2014

@I-am-Not-Herbert: So, what’s your point, and why do you always go off-topic?

17. Jay Ley (UK Trekkie) - June 11, 2014

Dang it.

I follow Trekmovie on Twitter and they announced the other day that there were going to be some “Big Announcements” this week – I was hoping a new TV Show would be one of them…

Where are we with those announcements???

18. Frank pointer - June 11, 2014

“Please be true, please be true”

Bring back Enterprise! With original cast…. Manny Coto especially

Come on Netflix… Do it baby!

19. Logicalleopard - June 11, 2014

Netflix should NEVER be in talks to produce a Star Trek series. Not because there’s something wrong with Netflix produced shows, but because Netflix is currently where shows that nobody wants ends up, like Arrested Development. Like I said, that is discounting Netflix produced shows, because Netflix has an interest in promoting it’s service with original content. But Star Trek should be produced for a major channel or syndication. There’s no reason why it shouldn’t be, to reach the largest potential audience. It’s Star Trek, not Arrested Development – both are great shows, and have dedicated fan bases, but Star Trek is thoroughly engrained in pop culture, and can ride the wave of successful movies. Arrested Development, although I loved it, many people never watched it or heard of it.

That being said, er….I admit, I could have the whole thing wrong. *LOL* I’m not familiar enough with modern television anymore, but it could be possible that Netflix would beg for a new Star Trek series, because it would potentially draw a good number of viewers, and CBS would be okay with it, because it’s low risk, and they could gauge support for another series on regular television, one that may overlap with the Netflix series like TNG/DS9/VOY. But then again, I’m not sure how many Star Trek fans already have Netflix, vs how many would be attracted to a new series. And the problem with Netflix is this – people can watch the whole season dumped at once. If people don’t like it, word will get out before some people sign up.

20. TrekMadeMeWonder - June 11, 2014

Damn. My universe just shrunk, again!

21. TUP - June 11, 2014

Whats worse, when people lie about a TV series being discussed or lie about it not being discussed.

The statement clearly says Netflix has expressed an interest. Thats a step in the right direction.

And the person who said Netflix is where shows go to die obviously doesnt watch House of Cards or Orange is the New Black. Give your head a shake.

22. Mad Mann - June 11, 2014

I don’t subscribe to Netflix. If they had a new Star Trek series, I would subscribe to it.

I would hope for a Captain Sulu series starring John Cho and set in the nu-Trek universe.

23. dswynne - June 11, 2014

@18 (Logicalleopard): The problem is that, by all indications, CBS doesn’t want to produce a new series, otherwise, they would have already done a series. They have 700+ episodes that they can re-run or repackage with very little cost, so they are not even interested in putting in new money for a new series. Heck, we’re lucky enough to get the ‘Trek movies as it is, and Paramount has to continue to produce a new film within a certain time frame, or all the rights go to CBS. Besides, with a Netflix-based series, we can get some ‘Trek. And as much as you, I and a whole bunch of people want a new series on air in some capacity, that ain’t going to happen in this environment. Disappointing…

24. Sybok'sSecretBrother - June 11, 2014

I figured it was a hoax… too bad, they really could do it…. I’d be watching.

25. Who cares - June 11, 2014

@LogicalLeopard. Netflix has teamed up with Disney/Marvel to produce 4 Marvel TV shows for exclusive release on Netflix. Disney has poured a reported 200 million dollars into the production, the first up will be Daredevil, featuring Vincent Donofrio (I know I misspelled his last name, Goren on Law and Order Criminal Intent) as the Kingpin of Crime (character portrayed by Michael Clarke Duncan in the film). These 4 shows will also be connected into the “Marvel Cinematic Universe” like Agents of SHIELD is. Clark Gregg (Coulson) is hoping to have crossover episodes, and it is fairly likely given that 4 of the actors from various Marvel movies made appearences in SHIELD’s first season, including Sam Jackson, who showed up twice.

Netflix is also the exclusive home of the unaired sixth season of Star Wars The Clone Wars. Exclusive Dreamworks animation shows, and much much more. Currently Netflix has 44 million subscribers (roughly) in the US alone and Star Trek is among their most streamed content.

26. Mike Barnett - June 11, 2014

I don’t expect any announcement for a new series until the next movie is released. I’ll bet a suit at Paramount/CBS/Viacom has a long range plan for Trek – including a new TV series, but they won’t share that info with us.

27. Bart - June 11, 2014

It might not be in the works now. But it’s an idea that I think will be explored in the future. And it’s a great idea. 10-12 quality episodes per season.

28. TUP - June 11, 2014

if CBS is unwilling to produce a new TV show or unsure how to do so, going with a Netflix partnership makes sense.

For one, it reduces their risk. Producing Trek as a premium TV show has a lot of benefits. I’d love a big budget slickly produced 12-14 episode season of Star Trek.

Make it Kirk-era (in the modern films universe) with guest appearances by the Movie Stars but staring new characters. Perhaps focusing on what Nero’s incursion did to the timeline (I know I know…”time” gets a bad wrap) as the over-arching storyline with every episode being in keeping with discovery etc.

29. I am not Herbert - June 11, 2014

no, no, noooo…!!!! JJ-verse SUCKS!!! keep that crap away from me!!! =(

30. Phil - June 11, 2014

At some point someone will make a successful pitch at a limited run story, if for no other reason as a trial balloon. If it performs reasonably well. More will follow.

One thing that won’t happen, will be a return to the primary color universe. Pining for CGI Shatner & Nimoy won’t happen, except maybe in a Trek version of Clone Wars…yeah, right. The Talifans will launch their own Jihad if that comes to pass…

31. Phil - June 11, 2014

Oh, and it’s nice to see some content popping up here. Anything going on behind the scenes you’d like to share, Matt?

32. Ahmed - June 11, 2014

@ 30. Phil – June 11, 2014

“One thing that won’t happen, will be a return to the primary color universe.”

Funny, the reboot didn’t offer any fresh ideas yet. The movies & comics, both overseen by the same team, only recycled plots & elements from the Prime Universe.

“Pining for CGI Shatner & Nimoy won’t happen, except maybe in a Trek version of Clone Wars”

No one is asking for CGI Shatner & Nimoy. Star Trek is NOT just about Kirk & co, unless of course you are stuck in the 60s with your fond memories of THE KIRK.

33. n1701ncc - June 11, 2014

I really wish this story had some reality to it. I enjoy all of the Star Treks on Netflicks. I say get out the JJ universe and go the Federation right after the Romulan War or Star Trek the 3rd generation with a new 3rd cast of the Enterprise 150 yrs ahead of the orginal and 250 yrs ahead of NX-01.

Any one agree?

34. Mikey1091 - June 11, 2014

I agree with some of the poeple here. They AREN’T in talks, but they SHOULD be. Of couse, since when has CBS listened to what the fans wanted in regards to a Trek series after Enterprise ended? Oh wait…that would be…never.

35. I am not Herbert - June 11, 2014

I agree! =)

36. I am not Herbert - June 11, 2014

The time has come to pass the torch to a new generation of @$$hats…

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/24174-focus-virginians-choose-even-bigger-tool

37. Keachick (Rose) - June 11, 2014

#32 – “Star Trek is NOT just about Kirk & co, unless of course you are stuck in the 60s with your fond memories of THE KIRK.”

Ahmed – I have never had the slightest sense that Phil is stuck anywhere, let alone “the 60s with your fond memories of THE KIRK” and might I say that goes for me and others as well.

Kirk and these other characters have served as a template for much of what comes later in any Star Trek. Also, their particular stories as regards what happened in the five year mission and in earlier parts of their lives got cut short – ie the series was cancelled after the third season. Later, we meet these people again 15-20 years later and not given any idea of what, why, where, who, how of these people in those intervening years.

With this alternate universe, such stories can now be told with some being derivative of what we have already seen in various TOS episodes – almost and some not.

A good television series (on Netflix whatever…) with these original characters, with the present actors playing them, is what, I believe, could really make Star Trek shine and be loved by a great many.

No, it is not my grandfather’s Star Trek, and it never has been…

38. Red Dead Ryan - June 11, 2014

A polar vortex will happen in hell long before Netflix gets the rights to produce a new “Star Trek” series.

CBS isn’t interested in having another studio share in the profits. And besides, it’s highly likely that in the future, Netflix will become property of a rival studio — cough!- Disney – cough!.

I’m still sticking to my prediction of no new series until after the year 2020.

39. Disinvited - June 11, 2014

Around February of 2006, Rick Berman’s personal assistant had this to say:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060513084629/http://scifipulse.net/Trek_ArchiveII/February2006/DougMirabello.html

“The TV side [CBS] is now technically in control of the franchise’s future, and Les Moonves hates all things Sci – Fi” — Doug Mirabello

So that’s the hurdle.

40. smike - June 11, 2014

“As I understand it, there have been overtures. But none taken. So far.”

SO FAR! It HAS TO happen. Sooner or later. My God, man! Next year’s our 10th “anniversary” of ENT’s cancellation. The year after is our 50th. It’s a most pivotal time for the franchise, especially with so many competing franchises going ahead at full steam. Star Wars, Avatar, X-Men, The Avengers, Justice League, Planet of the Apes, Terminator, Doctor Who…and now a Stargate reboot… all of them are taking steps into the future. There is NOT much time left to get a new TV show ready for lift-off in time…

41. William Smith - June 11, 2014

If they’re going to do a new show in the Abramsverse, then it really should tell the story of the USS Stargazer, and the early career of the new Picard.

Make the story very character driven, involving a deep space long-term mission in which (a) the original Captain and XO would die, (b) Picard would be promoted as a result, and (c) they would be too far from federation space to simply return home. Picard would be forced to take command, and the series could tell the story of how he became a great leader. He makes a LOT of mistakes early on, and both he and the crew pays for them. People die under his command.

Jack Crusher is the XO, and has to deal with the fact that he has a family but can’t interact with them (Wesley and Beverly are back in federation space, and are NOT on ship). He has psychological issues as a result, and has to come to terms with them before becoming a good XO.

Other characters could be woven into the storyline as needed, such as a younger Noonian Soong before or during the creation of Data, Mogh and/or Worf before the Khitomer Massacre, a young Lwaxana Troi, or even crew members from the original abramsverse trek (Scotty, or possibly McCoy).

Remember, this is the new plotline we are dealing with. There are whole new stories that can be told about new and old characters. ^_^

42. smike - June 12, 2014

@41: STARGAZER! Brillian idea. They should use the Alternative Main Titles from Encounter at Farpoint composed by Dennis McCarthy as a recurring theme…

Anyway. I really don’t understand why there hasn’t been ANY space-based TV show in the US since the end of NuBSG…Interest in Space is bigger than ever. Just look at the various documentary projects: The Universe, Through the Wormhole, Hawking’s stuff, How the Universe Works, Cosmos: A Space Time Odyseee, BBC’s Wonders of the solar system / universe series etc…Such a large number of documentaries hasn’t been around since the late 70s…

So there IS plenty of interest in space exloration, lots of new scientific concepts to be filled with life… The time for Star Trek to return is NOW!

43. LogicalLeopard - June 12, 2014

23. dswynne – June 11, 2014

Don’t get me wrong, I understand that CBS doesn’t appear to be interested, and that if given a choice of Netflix or nothing, I’d gladly choose (and purchase for a month or two) Netflix (if they don’t release things on DVD). But I was just basically lamenting the fact that it appears to have come to this.

44. LogicalLeopard - June 12, 2014

25. Who cares – June 11, 2014

Well, that’s kind of my point. Shows that no one else wants, it appears. Fox is airing Gotham later this year. NBC is airing Constantine. One of those small networks, I think the CW, is airing Flash later this year. ABC (I believe) already has Agents of Shield. So why couldn’t a Daredevil series, and the other 3 comic book franchises, make their way to a network? Is it a problem of too many, some sort of different distribution strategy I’m not understanding, or because they weren’t good enough for a major network to pick them up? Why was the sixth season of Clone Wars unaired?

I know this is a losing battle, because CBS doesn’t seem interested, bottom line. But my only point is that I think that Star Trek is “better” than Netflix. If that’s all we have at some point, then okay. And it might be a good thing, because Netflix may focus more on quality, rather than just a bunch of episodes to throw away on the chances that someone might see it and like it in syndication. The “binge” aspect of Netflix might help too, because you could make the stories more related. How much better would the Xindi arc have been if people were watching it all at once, instead of saying, “I’m sick and tired of these stupid Xindi” after 8 weeks or so.

45. Who cares - June 12, 2014

@LogicalLeopard. Agents of SHIELD is on ABC because Disney owns ABC, which is also why Agent Carter will be on ABC. As for why Disney/Marvel chose to put Daredevil, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, and Jessica Jones on Netflix, well that is not something they really share. Your contention that no else wanted these shows is wrong though, it was a major coup for Netflix when this deal with Disney/Marvel was announced, and putting the shows on Netflix allows Marvel to maintain continuity with their shows on ABC, which putting them on NBC, CBS, or another traditional network would not.

As far as the Clone Wars goes, my understanding is that the show was cancelled because JJ Abrams hates the clone wars era stories and wants to shift everything back to the Imperial/Rebellion era. The upcoming Star Wars Rebels series will air on DisneyXD but will make an accelerated transition to Netflix content after airing. Netflix and Disney also have several exclusivity agreements between themselves, for instance for the next several years Disney films will not air on movie channels like HBO, instead they will go to Netflix. Netflix is also very very serious about their move into being content producers and not just content providers, and their original shows earned at least a couple of Emmy nominations last year.

46. TUP - June 12, 2014

Moonves hating sci-fi might be another point in favour of sub-contracting to Netflix to produce. Let Netflix take the risks, do all the work and pay a lisencing fee to CBC.

Im not a huge fan of the AbramsVerse but it makes little sense to have competing universes.

“Captain Kirk” is what draws in the lapsed and casual fans.

Personally, if it’s an event style 13 episode season, I do something that involved bringing in Shatner & Nimoy. Time Travel gets a bad wrap in Star Trek but arguably the two best Trek films and the one that revitalized the franchise were all time travel based. Fans like time travel.

Nero’s arrival, red matter, black holes etc – have it all impact the timeline or space-time in some way. Something that “requires” Shatner Kirk but to Nimoy Spock (in Abramsverse) that Kirk is dead. So they have to prevent that death to save the universe. An arch about preventing his death leading to a cliff hanger of Shatner’s return would be a great lead in to Season two.

Shatner has been nominated and won many TV awards. He can be a fine actor. Let’s do this.

47. Who cares - June 12, 2014

BTW Logical. Regarding Arrow, Gotham, The Flash, and other potential DC Comics TV series. I am a huge DC fan, always thought of myself as more of a DC fan than a Marvel fan, but I don’t watch, or plan to watch, any DC TV shows because they have never been even willing to try for an inconnected universe like Marvel has, and they aren’t now either, Arrow and Flash are connected, but neither connects to Gotham, and none will connect with the films in DC’s upcoming Justice League franchise. For fans like me, who truly love the interconnected universe, Marvel wins hands down.

48. I am not Herbert - June 12, 2014

Terrestrial Humanity is Not the Center of Life in the Universe

http://goldenageofgaia.com/2014/06/12/humanity-not-the-center-of-life-in-the-the-universe/#more-220735

49. LogicalLeopard - June 12, 2014

45 & 48 Who cares – June 12, 2014

I could very well be wrong about Netflix being a place for shows nobody else wants. It could be just a better distribution method. Disney may have wanted to produce shows involving its Marvel characters, but didn’t want to glut up the television with them. But in some cases, like the Clone Wars, which I admittedly am NOT all that familiar with, and Arrested Development, it just seems to me that if those shows were viable, they would have stayed on their networks. I don’t think JJ has the pull to tell Disney to cancel something on one network and put it on Netflix.

As far as the interconnected universe, you’re right, Marvel is doing that great. I was always a Marvel fan, but I take a look at the DC stuff too. DC really missed out with the Interconnected Universe as a whole, with the level of planning Marvel put into it. We’ll see what their movie attempt is like in the Supes/Bats/Justice league mashup they have coming out. But I do have to say that Constantine and Gotham seem like excellent standalones. Gotham seems like it’s going to be a Gotham PD series, rather than a Batman series, which is great. I look forward to that one. Constantine can also operate more or less on his own, but I probably wont watch, because it’s not my thing.

50. TUP - June 12, 2014

Netflix is similar to HBO though in that they dont rely on advertising dollars so the ratings are not the end all be all for them.

For Netflix, its all about their subscriber base. They have a budget for original content designed to attract and keep those subscribers.

They brought back Arrested Development because the re-runs were popular on Netflix. Thats the ahem genesis of the Star Trek chatter too – that Trek is popular on their platform.

Traditional TV gives up on programs way too soon. Go back a few years when things were different and count the shows we would never have got beyond a season if they had been as quick to cancel then as they are now. X-Files comes to mind.

And by the way, I am mystified that X-Files is has not been revamped for a modern audience. Both lead actors continue to work in TV with David Duchovney returning to network TV this fall. Skinner is a regular on Dallas. It would seem they’d all be willing (if not completely available) to do an X-Files revival. Netflix would be a great platform for that too.

The other thing I like about “premium” television is that the writers/producers are never restricted by silly content rules. The program can be as realistic and/or adult as the premise calls for.

51. LogicalLeopard - June 12, 2014

Off the top of my head though, I think the most logical concept for a new Star Trek series would be set in the JJ-verse. I know that doesn’t please a lot of people, but it’s really not bad. Most of the JJ verse hatred I’ve heard boils down to things that are present because it’s a MOVIE. Series operate completely different, and leave the writers open to those kind of thoughtful episodes we’ve enjoyed in the past. Why have it set in the JJ verse? Because it brings in more viewers, who like the movies, and may be interested in a contemporary series.

As much as it pains me to think this – we have an entire generation of people who didn’t spend their childhoods/teen years watching Star Trek. They didn’t grow up with it already being around. They might live in areas where reruns weren’t even on television regularly. It’s hard to transition from the movies into TOS, or TNG, etc, because they’re so different. Maybe the new series will create new fans, who will eventually go back out and check out the other stuff. Or not, but they’ll support the new stuff.

I’m not in favor of doing a Captain Sulu series, or anything with the main cast members. If for some reason, they become available for a slight cameo (especially in the first episode) great, but let it stand on its own. I do think it would be interesting, however, to get an obscure TOS captain or officers to crew the ship. Obscure is the key word here, not like a Garth of Izar or something, or an established hero. Maybe even someone like M’Benga as the CMO, who only appeared in like two episodes.

52. Who cares - June 12, 2014

@LogicalLeopard. Well as I indicated it is just supposition on my part that JJ was the cause of Clone Wars cancellation, but it happened within a week of JJ taking the job on Episode 7, and they started developing Star Wars Rebels, a return to the Imperial era of Star Wars. The creator of Clone Wars, who is working on Rebels, has also given some indications of the atmosphere at Disney/Lucasfilm turning against Clone Wars. There is also the fact that the entire Clone Wars series is presented on Netflix in a “director’s cut” version (their words not mine), not the originally aired version.

The Clone Wars creator also indicated that he had to fight to get the final season included in the Netflix offering. I don’t know too many specific details about the ratings for Clone Wars, but I do remember reading something about the show winning a number of awards.

There is also indications that the recent decision about canon/non-canon material in the SW universe stemmed from the disputes between JJ and the writer that was originally hired for Episode 7, whose script was packed full of “expanded universe” material which JJ did not want to use, which lead to Arndt being fired and the expanded universe being declared non-canon officially. This indicates to me that JJ may have more power over the future of SW than one would assume.

53. LogicalLeopard - June 12, 2014

52. Who cares – June 12, 2014

Well yes, he definitely has a lot of power over the FUTURE of Star Wars….I just don’t see how that ties into the clone wars, which is a past offering that wont interfere with the new movies. Is that what happened with Arndt? Wow….that is really dangerous ground. I never really thought that they would use Expanded Universe information in the first place, but if this new SW movie comes out and people don’t like it, they may raise a stink higher than anything we’ve seen regarding JJ verse Trek, and that’s saying a LOT. Because, lots of fans as I understand are big on the EU stuff. This movie is already in direct competition with the EU, but if fans know there was a plan to use the EU stuff in the first place, and they don’t like the new movie….wow…

54. Who cares - June 12, 2014

@Logical. Yeah I see what your saying about the EU fans, I used to be one of them, then RA Salvatore killed Chewbacca, having him sacrifice himself to save Han and Leia’s son Anakin Solo. Then two books later Anakin is killed rendering Chewie’s sacrifice pointless. After that I was done with the EU, and I am not alone on that one as “Chewie not being dead” has been at or near the top of every list I have seen yet of “good things about the scrapping of the EU”. At least one such list ended with the words “live forever Chewie”.

I also think that JJ’s influence over SW is tied to the fact that Disney/Lucasfilm seems to be willing and able to do what Paramount was unable or unwilling to do with Trek. That is the total franchise integration idea, with interconnecting storylines spread across films, TV, comic books, novels, etc. JJ wanted to do that with Trek remember, and it has been noted by several sources that the failure to make that happen for Trek contributed to JJ taking the Wars job. Disney/Lucasfilm on the other hand has already been talking about this plan for SW, and that is why Lucasfilm now has a specific group appointed to keep all of the various storylines in order.

55. Keachick (Rose) - June 12, 2014

I am not sure where to post this because it is to do with the understanding of STID specifically. I wrote this in response to posts on the IMDb STID message board – (with a little editing)

‘”But there were many moments which were direct lifts(engine room), or did feel like the writers were just ticking off their TWOK iconic-moments tally sheet (introducing Khan and Carol Marcus in the same film when there’s no real need to do so.)” [other poster’s comment]

Maybe to you and those who feel as you see it like this, but that is subjective. (Nobody knows what the writers were thinking…)

In the film, though, which does NOT take place in our world, (and this is what is IMPORTANT), most of the events that took place in TWOK, do not happen in the same world at the same time in the same way, if at all, in this film. However there are parts which are pivotal to both worlds, like the presence of major characters, other than the main Enterprise crew, ie Khan and Carol Marcus (the woman Kirk has a child with in the other/prime ‘world’). Most important of all, probably, is the fact that either the captain or his first officer end up *dying* in order to save the ship from certain destruction (due to heavy damage) and the impact this death has on the other. The impact is the same, however the backstory/reason is a bit different.

The only dialogue that was exactly the same and spoken by the same character at the same point was by Scotty with his “Ye better get down here…”. That is the point of convergence. Then the dialogue is very similar but not the same…

Now, I think I am beginning to understand why Damon Lindelof insisted that John Harrison actually be Khan after all…hmmmm

This is a well written movie – brilliant actually!’

@Bob Orci – I am interested in what you think of my interpretation. If I come off as appearing to be some kind of smartass, I apologize. I am just trying to understand and explain it.

56. Who cares - June 12, 2014

@Keachick. Actually in TWOK it was McCoy who told Kirk to hurry down to engineering not Scotty.

57. Keachick (Rose) - June 12, 2014

Yes, someone else corrected me on that as well. However, I do think that Scotty was the pivotal character, point of convergence. He was in both scenes, in both universes, actively witnessing the demise of a first officer/captain in a heavily radiated reactor chamber, persons who had saved both ships from certain destruction.

Scotty remained in same position witnessing the event(s), but for others their position/roles changed. Kirk was now in the chamber dying and Spock on the outside as acting captain. Dr McCoy was not there, but Lt Uhura was.

Dr McCoy had something far more important to do and was definitely part of that “triumvirate”, except that this film chose not to scream Kirk/Spock/McCoy trio…

(Also, of course, Kirk would not die. He was not alone. He had Spock with him)

I’ve only just realized all this. STID is so very canon.

58. Who cares - June 12, 2014

@Keachick. No big deal, I think overall your point stands about the congruence, but then again I (and others) think Kirk’s actions may have been influenced by his mind meld with Spock Prime in the previous film. As the similar circumstances surrounded him the memories he carried from the meld (much like Picard carried a part of Sarek which he shared with Spock) gave him his answers. Like he told Spock, “It’s what you would have done.”, I also think that when Spock asked Spock Prime how they defeated Khan that Spock Prime’s answer was simply “What would Jim do”.

59. LogicalLeopard - June 13, 2014

54. Who cares – June 12, 2014

I didn’t know about Chewie. Hmmn…I hope this isn’t the firestorm it could be. Maybe JJ could have slipped a scene in there where Chewie gets shot, and it turns out instead of killing him, it just hit his bandolier and ticked him off more *LOL*

I think JJ took Star Wars because it was Star Wars and he loves Star Wars. But the intergrated universe is a good idea. That’s kind of what I was working at above, with the new series. It needs to be integrated into the movies, it would help attract people to the television show.

60. LogicalLeopard - June 13, 2014

55. Keachick (Rose) – June 12, 2014

There’s an unscientific, but to steal a phrase, “fascinating” little tidbit in the first movie, where Spock seems to imply that the universe is aligning itself to make things right. Kirk gets jettisoned off the ship and meets with Scotty, of all people, thus completing the original crew of the Enterprise. The parallels of STID you mentioned seem to be the same thing. It’s almost like the universe knows its broken, and puts itself together back the best way it can. If you break your nose, or a limb, and it heals incorrectly, it doesn’t look exactly the same, but it’s still identifiable.

Some people thought that it was “a rip off.” Some people thought it was a homage. I thought it was brilliant, like you did. The best part about it though, is that not only does it pay homage to TWOK, it helps along the Kirk maturity arc: Kirk was rash and brilliant, and thought he was an authority unto himself. He thought there was no such thing as a no-win scenario. He quickly learned in this movie that there is, in this movie, after Marcus almost kills his whole crew. When he says, “I don’t know what I’m supposed to do, I only know what I can do.” it seems like he’s still a bit despondent about that. Not wanting to get his crew killed again, he does what is necessary and pays the ultimate sacrifice. I was completely messed up in the theatre when I saw this, because unlike Spock in TWOK, Kirk was at the beginning of his potential….like….I forget his name, Scotty’s nephew that died. It’s unbelievably sad, if you invest yourself in it. Also, the scene shows you just how much of a family the Enterprise is/will be. It’s not hard to believe that any one of the main crew could have done the same thing.

61. TUP - June 13, 2014

Yes I keep using that example – Spock Prime said the universe will try and correct itself. So even though many different things happen, there will be “coincedences”. But this was the writers silly way of explaining away their fan-servicing. Dont get me wrong, I like fan servicing.

But the problem is, the want their cake and eat it too. They want to be free of canon but they want to pat themselves on the back when they can invoke canonical moments.

62. LogicalLeopard - June 13, 2014

61. TUP – June 13, 2014

But the problem is, the want their cake and eat it too. They want to be free of canon but they want to pat themselves on the back when they can invoke canonical moments.

****************************

Well, yeah, but that’s pretty much what has to happen with any such undertaking. When you try to make a marketable version of a 50 year old television show, there are going to be changes. There are going to be updated special effects and sets. There are going to be violations of canon,as there usually are in the course of a normal television series, much less a movie 50 years afterward. So, yes, you kind of need to be free of canon, to an extent, and they did a good job distancing themselves.

At the same time, almost any fictional story set in an alternate universe utilizes “canon” in some fashion to replicate well known moments. Its part of the genre, and people come to expect it. It also serves as sort of a touchstone to let people know that “Hey, this is still [insert brand/historical moment here]” But really, writers want to do it because it interests them as well. Why did they write a Khan movie? Because they liked Khan, and wanted to do it. It’s just that simple.

So to sum it all up, wanting their cake and eating it too is really inevitable. And if it didn’t happen, people would ask for it.

63. Victor Hugo - June 13, 2014

I don´t know how it works up there in the USA, but for NetFlix Brazil we´re getting the Original Series and Next Generation.

It would be a leap forward to have the other series also there.

64. Who cares - June 13, 2014

@63. Up here in the USA we have all Trek series on Netflix. TOS, TNG, TAS, DS9, VOY, ENT, and almost all of the films, except Insurrection and ST09.

65. Keachick (Rose) - June 13, 2014

Yes, you can have cake and eat it as well. It really depends on how the big cake is and how much you eat of it at any one time. I’m doing this right now. Of course, there may be a chance that another cake may already be in the oven…

66. Jim Nightshade - June 16, 2014

interesting….i doubt enterprise will be back with bakula heading his own new orleans ncis now…he so deserves it…i might watch it just for bakula as im tired of the format even tho its well done n i love the who….

dc is starting to try to connect their characters with upcoming man o steel n batman….even tho i hated man of steel i understood why they did it…to me they took most of the fun n lightness out of supes….

67. TUP - June 16, 2014

No one would have complained if they “re-booted” Star Trek and followed the established canon in a looser fashion. These writers chose to connect the new universe with the old and further implied that the Universe would try and correct itself. That alone insinuates that the future we know is the “correct” future.

You cant pat yourself on the back when you fan-service and then get up in arms when people 100% reject your “so what” attitude at casting a guy that looks nothing like Khan. They are too quick to say “so what, its a new movie, canon doesnt count” and then say be the chesire cat when they inject some canonical reference.

My biggest issue is that the weakness of the movies were all easily correctable things. Which means these writers/producers are lazy, stupid or some combination of both.

So in that sense, I’d trust Netflix more. And even though the new movies have been pretty craptacular from a storytelling perspective, any new series MUST take place in that universe or at the very least, if its a time travel series, reference the Abrams-verse. Going against the grain at this point is useless.

68. Disinvited - June 16, 2014

FWIW I dug up some old STARLOG interviews in regards to Phase II/TMP and Khan and posted them here:

http://trekmovie.com/2014/06/12/roddenberrys-mission-log-podcast-now-available-on-trekmovie-com/#comment-5219880

69. Who cares - June 16, 2014

@67 TUP. “No one would have complained”.

Lol, are you serious? Trek fans have complained at every single step the franchise has taken. They complained about TMP, theu complained about TWOK, they complained about TSFS, they complained about TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, TAS, TVH, TFF, TUC, every single move made in the franchise has groups of fans up in arms. We have a guy commenting right here at Trekmovie who has stated multiple times that “only TOS is real Trek” in the last week. The only thing all Trek fans do is complain, and NO move made has ever seen “no one complain”.

70. Disinvited - June 16, 2014

#69. Who cares – June 16, 2014

The problem with your supposition is that you extrapolate one fan complaining to all fans and yet exclude the converse extrapolation for the case of the one fan who chooses not to contribute and therefore is not complaining but as he or she is not making any noise goes unnoticed, uncounted, and unextrapolated into a sweeping generalization.

In the days of handwritten letters, publications and corporations estimated that for each letter written there were ten others that felt the same but found it too much of a bother to write and mail it. The ease of these electronic posts would seem should lessen these unbothered numbers behind each which should be decreasing our ability to inflate them to being representative of the entire base.

71. Who cares - June 16, 2014

@Disinvited. Not sure what you mean here. I was responding to the nonsensical claim that “no one would have complained” about the reboot if it had been done differently. At least a few would have complained no matter how the reboot was done. This is evidenced by the fact that at least a few have complained about all previous incarnations of Trek, with no exceptions. There were certainly those who did not complain at any of those points, and some who did complain, and those who did complain about some incarnations did not complain about others, while people who did complain at some incarnations did not complain about others. The point being that there have always been some complainers.

72. Disinvited - June 16, 2014

#71. Who cares – June 16, 2014

Allow me two juxtapose two statements by you using astrophes for emphasis so as to clarify:

“The only thing ‘all’ Trek fans do is complain,…”.”– 69. Who cares – June 16, 2014

“The point being that there have always been ‘some’ complainers.” — 71. Who cares – June 16, 2014

And I thank you for clarification.

73. Keachick (Rose) - June 16, 2014

#67 – “These writers chose to connect the new universe with the old and further implied that the Universe would try and correct itself. That alone insinuates that the future we know is the “correct” future.”

No one implied anything. You are using a comment from prime Spock when he wanted the young Jim Kirk to take command of the Enterprise, because Spock wanted this universe to be what he had come from. That was about prime Spock’s wishes and nothing more. There is no “correct” future and nor was it implied.

74. TUP - June 16, 2014

Keachick – come on now. To suggest that Spock’s statement was meaningless or simply wishful thinking on his part is to suggest that the writers are clueless. I’d argue the quality of the films but I wont go so far as to say they are clueless. You dont include a line like that without intent. And Im sure I read Orci or someone write or say that the point of that line was to imply the universe would try to correct itself, just as Spock said.

The point was to explain away coincedences and/or to have fun with similarities. To be honest, I *like* the idea of that very much. My issue is that the they played too fast and loose with continuity. Some things mattered, some things didnt. I just dont think you can have your cake and eat it too. Especially things where canon pre-dated Nero’s arrival, like Khan.

As for the “nobody would complain”, ofcourse I didnt mean literally not one single person would complain. They could have made the perfect movie and people would have complained that it was too perfect. What I meant was, if they had made a re-boot where they were released from the constrains of canon, then the fanbase might complain that they miss their old universe, but they couldnt complain about canon violations since there wouldnt be any.

Orci et al came up with a really interesting, unique way to “re-boot” without wiping out the Trek we know and I love that. But they increasingly seem unable to handle the scope of their own idea.

X-Men managed to take some pretty clunky and expansive (and more recent) film canon where First Class was made with the seeming intent to disregard the universe that the original trilogy lived in, and they created the wonderful Days of Future Past. DOFP did what the two modern Trek’s couldn’t do – write a time travel movie that bridged two generations, that untangled the competing canon, plowed through the canon violations, “passed the torch” and made a satisfying movie for fans of both “generations”. And no one compained that Stewart or McKellen were too old.

Paramount should tap the Donner’s and Simon Kinberg to fix Star Trek when the current crop of geniuses finish mucking it up.

75. Keachick (Rose) - June 16, 2014

TUP – That was about the character of prime Spock and how he understood the world in which he was pulled into.

No, you “come on now”…

This is also being discussed on the thread above this one.

76. TUP - June 17, 2014

Im not debating the intent of the character. Im speaking of the intent of the writer. I have little interest in stumbling late into a discussion about the physics of time travel. Within the Abrams Universe, time travel is different than in the established Trek canon. So they already made a major change. Now in the writers’ minds, they were probably evolving Star Trek into a more modern view of time travel. But in reality it reduced the consequences to the viewers since nothing that happened in the new films impacted what already happened in the established universe.

The writers’ intent by having Spock speculate that the otherwise eye-roll inducing coincedences was the effort of the universe itself to move back to the direction it was “destined” to travel, was to do just that – explain away the fan-servicing and letting the writers have fun with “new takes on old ideas”. Which in and of itself isnt a bad idea. Just the execution has been mostly poor thus far.

77. Keachick (Rose) - June 17, 2014

TUP – You have no idea what the writers’ intent was or is. You speculation is void.

We can only legitimately discuss the characters and their supposed intentions etc as they appear in these films.

78. Keachick (Rose) - June 17, 2014

edit – there was more than one writer for both movies. The same goes for this third film being scripted now. It s/be “writers’ intent were or are”.

79. TUP - June 18, 2014

Have you ever written anything? Do they think they just had a random line generator they used? Ofcourse Spock’s speculative line MEANT something otherwise it wouldnt have been in the film.

It’s pretty obvious it was used to address the eye-roll coincedences that were bringing the crew together. And quite frankly, if the intent of the writers was NOT to establish the idea that the universe would try to unfold as it should, then it further degrades the quality of the film for using such heavy handed and silly coincedences to bring everyone together.

Im not putting it past the writers to be even worse at crafting a Trek story than they seem, but that line was included for pretty obvious reasons.

Regardless, it doesnt really matter since there has been no clear vision for Trek in the modern films and these guys made movies that were all sizzle and very little steak.

80. McG - June 18, 2014

From what I understand, many Star Trek shows have been pitched, but CBS either has said “no” or “we can’t because X, Y or Z” (often to do with the deal with Bad Robot or conflicts with Viacom). Bad Robot having say over any new Trek series also means it would have to take place in the new timeline, not go back to the original Trek timeline, for better or for worse.

One loophole that I’ve heard is that CBS could proceed with a TV series if it was done through a streaming service like Netflix or Amazon Prime, etc as the deal with Bad Robot doesn’t technically cover that?

I certainly hope they get their act together by the time the 50th anniversary roles around, it would be criminal negligence if Star Trek doesn’t return to TV in 2016. (And they really need to do something new, not reboot TNG)

I’ve used my experience writing for Star Trek Voyager Elite Force (and many fan scripts I’ve written) and taken my own swing at coming up with an entirely new Trek TV series (carefully designed to work in either the original timeline or the reboot timeline with minor tweaks).

It’s a progressive and inclusive approach to the future of Trek, with a diverse cast of compelling, unique characters on a series-long mission that would have season-long story arcs and real character changes (think premium cable format TV like Mad Men, Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, etc.).

Check it out at http://www.startrekbeyond.com

81. Keachick (Rose) - June 19, 2014

TUP – “if the intent of the writers was NOT to establish the idea that the universe would try to unfold as it should”. Why should the universe “try to unfold as it should”? How do you or anyone else how anything as big as a universe could, let alone, should unfold? You write garbage…

I am too tired to explain, not that it would make much difference anyway…:(

82. TUP - June 19, 2014

Your response is excellent. It means I win the debate :-)

The issue is not what I know about the universe. It’s what the writers intent was. Im not even sure why you’re arguing the point so strongly.

If the writers gave Spock a line for no reason (ie., it was just a random stroke of keys) then it means that all of the things that bring the crew together are, infact, random coincedences. That means these writers were lazy hacks on this film.

I prefer to think they chose to acknowledge the coincedences and set their universe in such a way that there would always be things that rang true, that had a hint of familiarity because the stream of the universe was trying to get back on its original course.

You can argue. But I am quite certain that Orci or one of the others involved confirmed this to be the case. Thus, what do you know? Nothing.

83. Keachick (Rose) - June 19, 2014

Wow. What arrogance! I don’t know if Bob Orci or the other writers ever expressed their intent in this regard. Even so, your argument still does not stand – that the only reason that prime Spock, Kirk and Scotty got to meet as they did was due to the notion that the universe was trying to get back to its original course. Which universe? There are two now.

These are not necessarily random coincidences. It could be about synchronicity. Something like the idea that energies/spirits can be attracted to others on a similar wavelength (for want of a better word), needs must which can bring about a connection that transcends time, space, separate universes. That is how I understand what happened in Spock, Kirk and Scotty’s case with the three meeting as they did on Delta Vega.

Your interpretation is not the only one, nor is it necessarily the most valid one.

84. TUP - June 23, 2014

Well it depends on which theory you believe. These writers disregarded decades of canon to adhere to a multiverse theory. Trek canon had established both, actually, that while there are multiple universes, travelling throught time impacts YOUR universe. By changing that, they also eliminated the stakes.

Only a close minded fool would believe that the line given to Spock had no reason to be there.

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