Late Friday night The Hollywood Reporter kicked off a wave of media around the world with an interview with a former male model who accused Star Trek actor George Takei of sexual misconduct in 1981. Takei, who is traveling in Asia promoting screenings of his play Allegiance, has now responded, denying the claims.
Scott R. Brunton (who was 23 at the time) tells THR the encounter in question took place at the condo of Takei (who was 44). According to Brunton’s account, after “feeling very disoriented and dizzy” following several drinks he passed out, only to later awake half-undressed with Takei “groping” him. Burton says he told Takei he wasn’t interested and after Takei told him he was just trying to help him relax, he dressed and left.
This morning Takei took to Twitter to deny the allegations. Here is his full statement (which was split over 6 tweets):
Friends,
I’m writing to respond to the accusations made by Scott R. Bruton. I want to assure you all that I am as shocked and bewildered at these claims as you must feel reading them.
The events he describes back in the 1980s simply did not occur, and I do not know why he has claimed them now. I have wracked my brain to ask if I remember Mr. Brunton, and I cannot say I do.
But I do take these claims very seriously, and I wanted to provide my response thoughtfully and not out of the moment.
Right now it is a he said / he said situation, over alleged events nearly 40 years ago. But those that know me understand that non-consensual acts are so antithetical to my values and my practices, the very idea that someone would accuse me of this is quite personally painful.
Brad, who is 100 percent beside me on this, as my life partner of more than 30 years and now my husband, stands fully by my side. I cannot tell you how vital it has been to have his unwavering support and love in these difficult times.
Thanks to many of you for all the kind words and trust. It means so much to us.
Yours in gratitude,
George
Takei at an Allegiance event in Japan on Thursday (Photo: Theater Live Japan)
According to the report last night, THR spoke to a number of Brunton’s friends who confirmed he had recounted the story to them years ago. Brunton says he never told the story to the media before for fear that he would not be believed.
This report is just one of a wave of revelations in recent weeks about Hollywood celebrities, including Star Trek: Discovery star Anthony Rapp who accused actor Kevin Spacey of sexual misconduct when Rapp was underage. Following that incident, Takei gave his full support to Rapp and condemned Spacey, stating that “men who improperly harass or assault do not do so because they are gay or straight — that is a deflection. They do so because they have the power, and they chose to abuse it.”
TrekMovie will continue to update this story as additional developments emerge
I truly hope that Takei is telling the truth and I tend to believe him. The ongoing developments are bewildering. While there certainly are some cases taht must be investatigated (Weinstein, Spacey, Kreisberg), this here seems like an instance of someone just jumping the bandwagon for his five minutes of fame.
Even if these events had taken place back in 1981, they would be fully time-barred. The alleged “victim” was 24 back then and not below the age of consent as in the Rapp / Spacey case. Maybe there was alcohol involved, maybe is was a misunderstand, maybe non of this is even true.
But for the time being, I stand by my old friend George Takei who deserves my fullest respect for what he has achieved on Star Trek and for the LGBT community. I hate to see this great man of honor dragged down into the Mudd of an ongoing witchhunt that begins to make me sick.
We have to ask ourselves who in the US profits the most from “news” like this… liberal Hollywood going down, burning and crashing… I don’t want to give you an answer to that question, I just want you to think about it.
Attaching the victim is never the right response. If the media outlet did it’s correxf due diligence to confirm verification by others years ago then it adds a layer of concern
Clearly someone doesn’t plant stories years ago just in case there is a sudden wave of sexual assault allegations in the future.
My original post seems to be in moderation heck because of the link I included. So I invite you to look up Takei’s discussion about groping men who weren’t that into him in his home with Howard Stern. Mediaite has the recordings. They describe this situation to a T. George looks pretty guilty at this point.
George isn’t talking about groping the meter reader, or the cable guy, in this clip.
He’s talking about men who had been invited to his house to have sex, and who were then giving mixed signals over a period of time about whether or not they wanted to get naked with him. They weren’t leaving, they weren’t quite staying, they weren’t saying “yes”, they weren’t saying “no”. Grabbing their crotch was a part of the conversation to give them something definite to react to – yes or no. Words aren’t always enough.
That’s not sexual assault unless you think that’s how people have sex. Which they don’t.
If you grab someone’s crotch without their consent as part of some sort of test then you better be sure they won’t mind or, guess what, you just sexually assaulted them.
I worked in nightclubs for most of my adult life. I’ve been grabbed and touched and fondled and kissed many times without my consent. Perhaps because there was no unbalanced power dynamic (I had the power) I was not pained by it (mostly). Reverse it though and I can’t imagine doing it to them.
Re-read what I wrote. It wasn’t about “some kind of test”. It was about how people actually are, rather than how they would be if they were perfectly happy in their own skin. And how communication works between men.
I’ve never had a conversation where grabbing crutch was part of it. And as I said if you feel it’s ok then you better be sure it is because it’s assailt if it isn’t.
It’s clear I’ve gotten intimately involved with a much wider range of men than you have. Which is fine. But assuming that your own set of experiences represents everyone’s experiences is rather narrow. And yes, grabbing another man’s crotch as part of some conversations about sex is not only ok, but a good thing.
It’s not the same at all as grabbing another man’s crotch when he’s made it clear verbally or through body language that he’s not interested. Yes, that’s over the line. Although I’d call that harassment rather than assault if it was done to me.
Yeah, it’s all a vast-right wing conspiracy. Where have we heard that before?
“who in the US profits the most from “news” like this… liberal Hollywood going down, burning and crashing”…. that would be “The taxpayers” and “Lady Liberty”.
Well, if Hollywood goes down, I go down. It’s that simple. Movies and TV shows are my past, present and future. If there is no future for them, there’s none for me. I am VERY emotional about this, even more so than about on-screen violence.
And nope, “the taxpayers” don’t profit from your current POTUS, only the rich will get richer. This person is not a man of the people, he’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. And Lady Liberty would end in thunderous applause.
But then, the man himself was accused of harrassment. He accused himself ON TAPE. And still you elected him president. So much about double standards…
Are you really turning a comment about corrupt, leftist, crooked, perverted, anti-American Hollywood into a criticism of Trump? Being fed up with Hollywood’s smug subversions LONG precedes the election of Trump. The whole snake pit turned rotten around 1969.
Far earlier than that.
0dkinWood,
Are you saying corrupt, anti-free market monopolist, crooked, and perverted politicians didn’t exist prior to the invention of the motion picture?
Trump IS Hollywood. Were it not for one, the other wouldn’t exist. I know you’d love for this to be about corrupt liberalism, but in fact it’s the same power relationships that insulated Harvey Weinstein from the consequences of his acts that enabled Donald Trump to outright brag about his and still win the presidency. (And, of course, the abject stupidity of Trump voters.) But by all means keep on pretending that sex was invented by hippies in the ’60s, which is just hilarious.
Smike why would stopping sexual assault end hollwyood film making? And why are you so opposed to ending sexual assault in Hollywood?
You do realize that liberty is by definition liberal right?
Cool. And who gets to define that?
Nachum,
Re: And who gets to define that?
According to founding conservatives, King George. According to founding American Revolutionaries, endowed by their creator whoever or whatever that may be — it isn’t specified.
We’ve got tape of Takei on Howard Stern basically admitting he groped men in his home. So much for your old friend.
https://www.mediaite.com/online/listen-to-george-takei-seemingly-refer-to-the-sexual-assault-allegation-on-the-howard-stern-show/
George isn’t talking about groping the pizza delivery boy, or the plumber.
He’s talking about men who had come over to his house knowing sex was in the wind, and who were giving mixed signals about whether or not they wanted to get naked with him. Grabbing their crotch was a part of the conversation to give them something definite to react to – yes or no. Words aren’t always enough.
It sounds like he didn’t know how to explain those dynamics to a straight guy like Stern, but this situation is neither rare nor abusive.
A lot of men have conflicting attitudes about sex when they’re just coming to terms with being attracted to men. What they want and what they are supposed to want don’t match, and that make them act weirdly. If someone in that state has come to your home, knowing explicitly that you want to have sex, but then gives very mixed signals, not saying yes, not saying no, not leaving but not really settling in and staying – then yes, grabbing their crotch and saying “Yes or no?” is one way to get them to decide.
If you want to call that sexual assault, ok. But an awful lot of conflicted men have found that getting grabbed like that has enabled them to say “Yes”, because getting their dick grabbed was exactly what they wanted, after all. It helped them clarify what they wanted, which is what George is describing in this clip.
I dunno, but if you followed the #metoo campaign for a bit, you might have noticed that there are people being dragged through mud for WAY less than grabbing someone’s privates. Even a simple verbal offer of intercourse back in the 1970s seems to be enough to accuse someone of sexual assault nowadays.
Of course, I know this whole thing is absurd, you know this whole thing is absurd, and pretty much everybody else also knows this whole thing is absurd. Unsolicited sexual advances are an integral part of human interaction and it has been like that during the course of the entire recorded history. If it weren’t for unsolicited sexual advances, most of us would’t be here today.
This whole mess is what happens when certain people are allowed to stigmatize perfectly natural everyday human behavior: sooner or later, *everybody* gets caught in the resulting poopstorm. I just hope Mr. Takei can appreciate the irony of him speaking against Spacey not even a full month ago…
I know many gay people. I know how it works. I know none of them would consider being drugged and assisted to be part of some game.
Let’s not pretend being gay is a green light to assault.
“I know many gay people” is not the same as being a gay man interacting with hundreds of other gay men over the years. And no, you probably know how some of it works, but you clearly don’t understand a big chunk of the experience of being a gay man.
This sub-thread is about a clip where Takai talks about grabbing a guys crotch during a conversation about whether or not to have sex together – a grab before there is verbal “yes, I want to” but after a lot of non-verbal “yes, I want to” has been given. It’s about a very specific kind of situation that, apparently, doesn’t happen in the straight community (what a surprise, straight kids aren’t brought up to think being straight is wrong or sinful, and don’t have the same set of crap beliefs foisted on them).
So what he’s talking about in the clip is most certainly not sexual assault. Outside your experience maybe, and not something you understand, but not sexual assault.
Your take on dating and sexual relations is really disturbing and I’d hate to wind up at your place after a few drinks. What you think is normal is not.
Mark2000,
Is it your contention that you have established for a fact, that those are the original live in situ unedited recordings? I mean the Stern show has been known to edit recordings from various sources for segments.
“Dolly Parton has hit back against THE HOWARD STERN SHOW, which last week manipulated recordings from one [SIC] her audio books into seemingly racist and sexually graphic sound bites.
…
The “Stern” show frequently utilizes audio book recordings in this fashion; altered clips from STAR TREK actor George Takei became a staple of the program in recent years.” — By Jonathan Cohen | “Parton ‘Shocked’ At ‘Howard Stern’ Segment” | Billboard.com | May 14, 2008 12:00 AM EDT
Here’s the online source for the story:
http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/1308584/parton-shocked-at-howard-stern-segment
Smike. Wow. You support sexual assault? It doesn’t matter how old the victim is. Why does that matter??? Wow!!
Why does it matter if it’s time barred? Suddenly it didn’t happen? Suddenly the victim isn’t a victim anymore? If the accusers are so innocent they can sue a person for defamation or libel. No time bar on that. So let’s see them have their day in court
My guess is they won’t do that.
I do tend to think that track record plays a huge role in sorting out such claims. Most rapists are serial rapists; ditto molesters. If this claim stands alone, then I think George has certainly reached a point in his life where his word is enough. He says it didn’t happen, so I think the accuser should not proceed. On the other hand, Spacey’s accusers have appeared from every door, like dancers in Broadway musical. Ditto, potted plant-o-phile Harvey Weinstein. I take George at his word.
I don’t take him at his word. I don’t know him. But it similar to Hoffman in that it’s one incident. Let’s hope there are no others.
In the case of Spacey it was the same. One incident. Then the food gates opened. The really concerning aspect here is the drug insinuation.
Very unfortunate.
While I do believe on innocent until proven guilty, I do find your inability to believe anything could be wrong… Troubling.
A lot of people accused have no record. A lot of people who have been accused or people joke about still supported that actor until rumors became frequent this month.
I will add, on Howard Stern when they were mocking Trumps comment about grabbing women. Stern asked Takei if he had ever grabbed a man by the….
Takei giggled and acknowledged he grabbed men by the junk to persuade them to have sex.
It’s not good to turn a blind eye because you like someone. It’s more disgusting that we can get angry over.
Ignoring these kinds of self admissions is disgusting.
They all deny the accusations, until multiple victims surface. Then…karma.
I’m just waiting for them to start coming out against Shatner .,,
She’ll be green. Just watch.
shatner will be fine and he was such a goddamn HUNK back in the 50s 60s 70s 80s and even the 90s that no woman in their right mind would be able to resist the man
I see you’re already setting the groundwork here to disavow anybody that does come forward, if they do, as just looking for attention/money… well done.
@nasty man — I know of at least one who did, in a very uncomfortable encounter with him at her apartment in the 70s.
Speak for yourself! Personally, although I thought Shatner was a truly excellent Kirk, he wasn’t at all my type; the one I found irresistible was Mr. Nimoy. :-)
Rape is not about sex or the ability to get it. It’s about having power over someone.
@Mark2000 — and that’s why Trump’s Billy Bush interview is NOT just locker room talk. It’s not just the things he said, it’s what he said — his power and celebrity allowed him to take sexual advantage of women, to moleste them without asking — and he was bragging about it, not just the act, but the sick rationale behind the act.
+100
And this is why it is so sad, the he and his followers now profit from the ongoing claims against liberal Hollywood. He gets away with it, they elect him POTUS… and now we are witness to the end of Hollywood film-making as we know it.
I don’t want to defend people like Weinstein, Kreisberg or Spacey… but even they have rights. And this witch hunt, this drumhead is plain wrong!
Smike knock off this witch hunt thing. That’s ridiculous and disgusting and your can’t be that obtuse.
Stop defending sexual assault.
It’s not the end of Hollywood film making unless you’re trying to claim films can’t be made without sexual assault occurring. Give your head a shake or stop posting for awhile. It’s embarrassing and disgusting.
Frankly, after all this is done, I think we’ll be getting a better quality product out of Hollywood.
Mark2000,
I agree, but I am not entirely sure what to make of the thorough dismantling of the suits’ blackballing machine that will result in its wake? It seems a lot of petty battles that the studio suits picked in the past having nothing to do with the casting couch aren’t going to go their way ever again. I’m inclined to believe the result will be a better product in those studio lost battles as well, but I suspect the suits will find something to replace their lost bludgeon.
And he is still sitting in the white house. Unbelievable. Celebrities that have been accused are being fired and let go from movies, contracts…ect and we got this IDIOT president sitting on Capital Hill.
Alec Grimes,
Re: president sitting
It’s worse than THAT: he still produces THE APPRENTICE where one would think the Bushtapes alone would have initiated shysters and legitimate legal counsel to take it down en masse with lawsuits.
Yes. If this Weinstein thing happened last year and then the trump tapes came out he’s toast. Well he practically was last year. Lots of lots of stories about him from victims. Should be impeached on that among other things
Curious Cadet,
Re: Shatner
I’m surprised the reporters zoomed right past the ribbon-wrapped Stephen Collins’ story, not to mention Solow’s hearsay claims of Roddenberry’s casting couch bragging, to zero-in on Takei.
Colllins is old news now though.
TUP,
Re: Collins is old news
I don’t know what news you’ve been watching, but on mine they been returning to old reported allegations in spades. I just saw Joan Collins fingering Zanuck.
But if it’s new Trek related reporting that needs the focus how about Megan Colligan’s claims of active “gender bias and discrimination” at Paramount”?:
http://deadline.com/2017/11/megan-colligan-gender-bias-claims-as-she-exits-paramount-pictures-executive-ranks-1202202765/
As I see it, it’s this systemic devaluing of women and other groups that fertilizes this philosophy of the powerful that they can do anything they want to their “lessers” as it is their right and privilege rooted in the inherent “nobility” of their superiority. It is that which needs to be exposed and rooted out if western civilization is to truly advance beyond the legacy of those historic concentrations of power and its abuse.
I’m not saying it’s not releevant. I’m just saying the media doesn’t see him as a story.
There was quite a bit of news on Steven Collins, but it didn’t make for an ongoing story. He wasn’t a huge name, but it was news, he admitted it, and there were 3 cases 20, 30 and 40 years earlier. The Takei stuff, if it was this one thing, will be over with in a much shorter time – at least in the news. So far it hasn’t even reached the level of the Steven Collins news when it broke.
martin,
Re: huge name
I’m not sure what the relevance of that observation is supposed to be? Are you saying Takei is a huge name?
Corey Feldman’s claims of personal abuse are old and don’t involve any huge names but it got a whole week of play on talk and news shows amid this.
I think it is a good thing that this story has expanded beyond the “names”. The paradigm shift for this has been long overdue and the “little” people’s stories will expose how deep and wide this civilization’s tradition of ignoring it has allowed this to balloon in growth.
Takei has a large following in social media, well beyond just Trek fans. He is a pretty big name, and is somewhat political too, so he is larger on many levels than Collins. – but so far, I think the content of the Takei story is a nothing burger.
As for Feldman, that is bigger too in that he is claiming something of a pedophile network… and given The tortured lives of both Coreys, it is a much bigger story than Collins.
Martin,
Larger than Collins was at the height of his 7th HEAVEN Q numbers?
I was addressing the Feldman story where he directly named that noname actor, Grissom, that costarred with him. His hearsay testimony in regards to what happened to his friend was being matched every step of the week by his friend’s mother’s hearsay countering it, and Feldman ultimately clammed up about that saying he promised Haim’s mother not to discuss it. But that’s not a Feldman abuse story per se, but rather, something entirely apart: The Haim Abuse Story.
Yes. Takei is a bigger name than Steven Collins. Takei is one of the Original Seven of a fifty year old multi billion dollar franchise, which has spawned 13 movies and six additional series. Takei has 13 million followers on FB & Twitter combined.
Steven Collins led a series on the WB. He was a guest star in one of the movies above.
Would you suggest that Shatner has less of a following than Collins, at Collins height of popularity? Shatner has 8m less followers than Takei
martin,
Re: less of a following
That was NEVER my point. I was only contending that Collins starring in a popular 11 season long series that was the most watched ever on the WB, was at least comparable in notoriety to Takei, a character actor, whose career never rose to him headlining anything similar.
And BOTH of them made comparable contributions appearing in the history making TMP.
According to Marc Cushman, both Shatner and Roddenberry believed that it was their “right” to grope the female guest stars and did so regularly. I’ve never once heard such things about Leonard or De, just Shatner and Roddenberry.
Actually, I think that was Solow and Justman, not Cushman. That’s what I get for reading them all at once. :-)
It seemed that Roddenberry was MUCH worse than Shatner. Plus, he controlled who got on the show and who didn’t. Shatner flirted and may have gotten grabby – but in the These Are The Voyages books, it also sounded like most of the guest actresses really liked working with Shatner… much more so than Doohan and Takei did.
martin,
Re: … guest actresses really liked working with Shatner… much more so than Doohan and Takei did.
Wait. Are you AWARE of exactly what you are implying Shatner did to Doohan and Takei?
Just saying the guest actors liked working with Shatner, and Doohan and Takei didn’t… or at least didn’t after they had years to think about it and talk about it.
Corylea and martin,
I’m not sure how much of a case you can build on the hearsay of two men who published that openly admitting they bore a grudge against the man.
Also Solow, for some reason, had a clear bias for his old cronies in the NBC Network Executive Suites who he would have us believe were forward civil rights thinkers as pure as the driven snow. But DC Fontana documented NBC execs’ sexist treatment of her while a writer, even had Roddenberry intervene to end it. And Solow openly contradicts his “real story” behind Number One’s elimination in later interviews after that publication where he reiterates Roddenbery’s contention the network had a problem with a woman being believable as second in command with men taking and following her orders.
And I recall Whitney denied Roddenberry was the television executive attached to the STAR TREK production that she claimed sexually assaulted her in her biography.
I always thought it was pretty ridiculous how IST tried to make the elimination of the “Number One” character strictly about Roddenberry’s relationship with Majel Barrett, rather than the idea of a female executive officer being a bridge too far for audiences in 1964. I wasn’t there, but just looking at the case on its merits, doesn’t it seem likely that both explanations are true?
Michael Hall,
Re: likely that both
If by that, you mean that the network, that wasn’t enamored of the idea in the first place, blamed the actress for not being good enough to sell it, then I suppose it could be so. But then why wouldn’t they just have recast it with an actress NBC, if it was as forward looking a network as Solow claimed it was, believed could deliver the goods?
What influenced me was Solow went on in his tales of Lucy to claim that he saved Roddenberry’s job because Lucy wanted to fire him for pulling the con of the network brass off. Gene couldn’t both never have fooled the NBC brass but fooled them enough for Lucy to ask for his head. Solow said she was fired up over Gene because of Desi’s philandering but that Gene’s conning the NBC brass to get Majel on the show was the last firing straw.
The way I see it if Gene conning the brass was actionable and the NBC brass weren’t fooled then it wouldn’t have mattered what Ball or Solow thought, Roddenberry would have been fired by Network fiat. So I find the contention that they weren’t fooled as risible as claiming they’d remembered the name of an actress they considered so bland and lacking in talent.
Are we really letting those people who have some weird dislike for Shatner having never known him, to bring his name into this? Jesus. This has nothing to do with him. Ridiculous.
People need to remember before they make any accusations that some of these accusations can be socially devastating against other people. These accusations must be made clearly and in a balanced state of mind, not just accusing for any simple event. I mean what’s next, they are going to accuse me of sexual misconduct if I say “you are beautiful” to a female coworker. If the situation was severe and psychologically damaging then go ahead, make your accusations and if the person is an obvious predator (like Spacey and Weinstein) then these kind of people deserve the harshest punishment possible. But if a person is innocent, then the accuser will live with the knowledge that he destroyed an innocent persons life. And this is just wrong. In Turkish we have a saying “Sometimes in punishment, the dry also get burned with the wet” I just hope not many dry people get burned in this situation and while only the wet should burn.
This allegation is not about something innocent that can be misinterpreted.
You don’t accidentally grope someone.
I don’t know if the allegations are true, I hope that they are not.
But what has been described isn’t exactly the same as tripping over somebody by accident.
Plus the insinuation if being drugged. Very unsettling allegation.
He may be innocent but perhaps bitter hypocrite Takei will now experience what it is like when he falsly makes claims without proof about so many for political and personal reasons.
to what false claims are you referring?
He’s done a great job attempting to burn everyone alive that has been accused of any kind of recent misconduct. Probably all true, maybe some arent. We don’t know. Now the ball is in his court. Now hes accused. And now hes in denial.
This all seems to be getting ridiculously out of hand. All of a sudden these apparently scared people are coming forward with deeply harmful claims and accusations dating back decades?
Some of them may be genuine OK. But I suspect some are simply bitter peasants who resent others huge success and subsequent lifestyles.
I have it quite tough, but then that is life in the real world and I am in it. The likes of Takei do lead incredibly priviledged and fulfilled lives.
Of course I condemn the real culprits of sexual assaults, as all decent folk would.
I smell a big worldwide witchhunt going on!
I think that for the most part, these people are telling the truth.
Those that aren’t, the truth will come out.
What a disgraceful post, Data. Shame on you.
Please can you tell me what has offended you?
Data, your instinctive reflex to victim shame and call them name.
Don’t you realize that that response and the nastiness these victims have endured is exactly the reason they don’t speak out???
You’re diminishing the hurt and pain and fear. Why this is happening now is because it’s awakening this pain but also victims are seeing other victims stand up. It’s empowering.
I love the story of Gal gadot who was signed for Wonder Woman on a cheap deal. She saved the DC film series and is now powerful enough that she is leveraging her power to boot Ratner from her films. What a turn around. Good for her.
Always stand with victims. Always always stand with victims. Imagine it’s your child or sibling or spouse or best friend.
I just think that it is important to keep things factual. These are supposed victims which who have no proof to back up their claims most of the time. I am not big fan of Takei but until I see an ounce of evidence I side with his denial of the claims.
That’s not what you said. You were very dismissive. You victim shamed.
The initial report indicated friends of the victim were spoken to and confirmed he has told them the incident years ago. He has dates and places and descriptions of bean bag chairs.
I’m not saying it’s true. But this reflex to get angry at so many victims coming forward is insane. There are so many victims coming forward because there are so many victims.
“I smell a big worldwide witchhunt going on!”
So true. I fully agree. Something else is going on here. There are some genuin claims floating around. I’m sure of that.
But SOME of these accusations are either blown out of proportions or entirely fabricated. And when they are time-barred, it’ll be legally hard to proove anything on either side. But the moral damage remains and that is exactly what HE WHO MUST NOT BE NAMED wants to achieve. Distrust and trial by social media, modern-day drumheads. Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Smike – in your expert opinion which of the high profile claims are 1) blown out of proportion ( maybe a little assault is ok?) and 2) completely false?
Didn’t George admit this from his own mouth on the Howard Stern show?
NSFW (but germane) audio from the Howard Stern show a few weeks ago discussing whether Takei had ever committed sexual assaulted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJYb0Yom5UQ
Ooops… that doesn’t sound too good. All those pauses…jeez. But then again, I think the host is right calling it “different times” back then. Anyway, it’s time-barred.
There was no time so different that drugging and raping someone was considered an okay thing.
This was the clip with George on Stern https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLtw9Tpg9Pg
Guilty? Probably. Years ago on a radio show he was asked if he ever did anything he was ashamed of. He said yes back in the 80s and I don’t want to talk about it.
Well, the 80’s was one of the shortest decades, so I guess it must have been the same incident he was referring to.
I suppose an important question is, did he tell his friends before or after Takei came out?
Not definitive, of course. But telling.
What does that have to do with anything?
How likely is this? Let’s use Bayes’ Theorem, but leave out anything Takei himself has said in the past.
Probabilities defined: (A) = abuse accusations (general population), and (B) = Hollywood abuse accusations. For (A) we know the statistics: more than 95% of all accusations like these are true, but let’s be coarse and say 90%. For (B) we have to ask, how high is the probability that the accusations of the past few weeks are true? Since we don’t know it (yet!), it would be 50%. But Louis C.K. said that the accusations are true, and many years ago Polanski was found guilty of rape; furthermore, we know this kind of behavior from other (media) elites or countries as well, so that would all raise the initial probability, but let’s be nice and say only to 53%.
So these are the initial probabilities, very secure, but slightly conservative in the case of (A), kinda rough/shaky (and a lot more conservative!) in the case of (B). The one missing is the conditional probability (B|A): how likely is it to see a true accusation out of Hollywood, if 95% (or rather: 90%) of the accusations in the general population are true? Maybe some Hollywood accusers were just hurt by these actors/filmmakers in a different way, and they’re using the current MeToo wave to get back at them, and in a narcissistic place like Hollywood, this might even be true; maybe some of them are snowflakes that read way too much into some people’s behavior, which I don’t believe to be true, but let’s be really bold and cut 90% by more than in half (!!!), because Hollywood is truly narcissistic, and lots of people there are huge snowflakes—especially amongst the actors!—, so we’re down to 40% for the conditional probability. This basically means that we are saying that more than half (!) of the accusations of the past weeks are lies! (Just for the sake of the argument.)
So A is 90%, B is 53%, and (B on condition of A) is 40%. Bayes’ Theorem says that the final probability is ([B|A] * A) / B, i.e. (40 * 90) / 53. So with these very conservative & cautious input values, there is still a final probability of 68 percent that Takei groped this man. Doesn’t look good.
The good thing with Bayes’ Theorem is that you can debate the input values, but in this case value (A), i.e. the truth of sexual assualt accusations in the general population, is hard to diminish statistically. To do the latter, Hollywood people would have had to display a near perfect & angelic behavior in the past. That doesn’t seem to be the case. So you can twist the initial probabilities, even boldly, but those 95 (or 90) percent will definitely mess it up.
It’s turning into a crazed witch hunt. We all know Hollywood is a cesspool and terrible things happen there, but this is a becoming a social media lynch mob, devoid of legal oversight, and it’s spreading into every aspect of life, globally. Ultimately it’s poison. Whether something happened or not is for the law to decide, not social media.
perhaps we should all rewatch The Orville’s Majority Rule
Do you realize he admitted to non consensual groping(which is sexual assault) in an interview?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJYb0Yom5UQ
When someone admits something, there is no presumption of innocense.
Trekfangrrrl…
Actually, there is presumption of innocence until the defendant stands up in court and is asked to plead guilty or not guilty. And, if they plead not guilty, they remain presumed innocent until a verdict is given. That’s what a civilised country is supposed to do. YouTube videos can be presented as ‘evidence’ in a trial, but right now, no one’s being investigated and no one’s being indicted. That’s the issue that needs to be addressed.
Takei already admitted on Howard Stern while condemning Trumps “grab em” statements that yes, in fact Takei admitted to grabbing men by the junk without consent to persuade them into having sex.
Don’t defend terrible actions.
Meee
I’m defending rule of law over the lynch mob. Nothing more. Regardless of whether someone has been goaded into showing off on a trashy radio show, it’s for the courts to decide if there is guilt. It’s not for the media or social media to decide the guilt or innocence of a person.
You’re not defending the rule of law. What does that even mean? Are you suggesting there should be a law against victims speaking out? Or only when the accused is someone who’s work you enjoy?
TUP You’re either naive or an imbecile. If there is a complaint to be made you approach the police, it’s investigated, a person can potentially be charged and a trial held.
This is a witch hunt. This is assumed guilt until the media decides otherwise. That’s wrong.
If you don’t understand the concept of rule of law, read a book.
Hey Don if you want to pretend to be intelligent you need to work harder. If you’re position is so weak you must insult people it speaks volumes about you.
You don’t know anything. Better to keep quiet then confirm your ignorance.
Mate, your ad hominems show you can’t address the real point. Next thing, you’ll try to start an argument with ‘Well what about…’
It’s quite simple: if you have a complaint, address it to the legal authorities. You’re innocent until proven guilty under a proper legal system. A public ‘admission’ of guilt should also be dealt with as part of a formal legal case.
I want to see sick parasites destroyed in a court of law through a jury of their peers. I don’t want social media to become a judge, jury and (career?) executioner. Right now, the febrile atmosphere, post-Weinstein, is becoming ridiculous.
What’s so evil about wanting proper legal oversight of alleged crimes?
I think it is both past due for Hollywood, and funny at the same time. It is all crashing down, and who knows where it will stop. This place while preaching to the rest of the country about diversity and women’s rights and civil rights is rotten to the core on how it has done business for decades. What a bunch of hypocrites! Ashley Judd complaining about what Trump has said, when she remained quiet for all these years and let more women be abused by Weinstein. She has her career, and paid for it by turning an eye while others are abused.
And the whole town for decades has fawned all over Roman Polanski, a rapist (forced, drugged, anal rape of a 12 year old) – saying that he should be allowed to come back free and clear without jail time. Now they are so confused that Takei may have grabbed the junk of an adult date, or that Dustin Hoffman told a dirty joke and slapped a butt.
I hope this is nothing more for Takei and we can get over this and move on and Hollywood can figure out what harassment and predatory behavior really is – but after decades in the cesspool once you come into the light you have to figure out what is really poo on you and what is just a bit of mud.
Harassment and predatory behavior is harassment and predatory behavior, whether it’s committed by the likes of Donald Trump or Harvey Weinstein. There, not that hard to figure out. At least I can tell myself that I never voted to make Weinstein president of anything, even after his predatory leanings were exposed to the entire world.
Hollywood is eating their own — and now one of our Trek heroes. I hope it isn’t true.
i find it very hard to believe he would ,takei, do such a thing
Well he has talked about groping in the past.
He’s shook my dingaling.
Do you know him?
“Oh my…”
The Presumption of Innocence does not count anymore. We are beginning to establish the cardassian law: guilty until innocence is proved by the defendant.
Unfortunately this seems to be true, and it is kind of unsettling after watching The Orville episode “Majority Rule”. All of a sudden this episode became eerily relevant.
Now then now then. Goodness gracious, as it happens.
My Thoughts and Prayers are with the truth.
Well Said.
I see this one as a total non-story. Let’s even accept the described events as true. What is the crisis here?.. Both men are gay… Both men are of age. The “accuser” goes to the home of a guy who is single and attracted to him. They both are drinking. Both are likely drunk or close to it. Sulu tries hard to get it on aggressively with the guy. Heavy petting. The guy declines and goes away. Sulu lets him go.
So WTF. If this guy was into Takei, it would be his dream to get it on. That’s how people hook up when drunk. He wasn’t into Takei, so he ran off.
There is no allegation of nudity, rape, forceable confinement, or exploding body fluids. Just some over-underwear ball rubbing by one drunk adult to another drunk adult of same sexual orientation. It didn’t work out. Everyone went home.
So Takei should literally bankrupt this idiot with a slander lawsuit.
There are stories of hardcore predators and abusers this month in Hollywood that should be taken very seriously. This is not one of them. And the media should be ashamed of themselves.
I think this weekends SNL comedic portrayal of NBC’s HR employee got this right: you don’t have permission to go for it until the other person takes their clothes off of their own volition.
Really? So if your daughter went to the apartment of a male friend and was served a drink that caused her to pass out and wake up to a sexual assault you would feel that was ok? Insane.
And what does “they are both gay” have to do with anything? Is it only an assault if the victim was straight? Like you’re suggesting because he’s gay then he wants it even when he doesn’t?
Let me clarify …
– There’s nothing to indicate “he was served a drink that caused him to pass out”. That’s Bill Cosby territory. These dudes were just drinking. Different scenario as far as I’m reading.
– It also doesn’t read he was waking up to a sexual assault vs Takei thinks he’s trying to get it on with someone he’s maybe reading signals from? The guy is leaving out any part of the story which might describe why he’s hanging out drinking at Takei’s place after a bad break-up with his current boyfriend.
– Don’t play the “if it was my daughter” card. Because if you applied that to every situation in life, there would be anarchy. Have to be objective. Because I can also say the other side… “if it was your Takei… would you tolerate him being accused of….”
– “They are both gay”… making the point that they are same sexual orientation… not saying it’s ok because victim is gay. Just meaning it’s not one sexual orientation going after an opposite orientation.
– And this is a different can of worms, but there is a double standard against men. I was talking about this with my wife this morning who sees it the same way… I told her a story about my college years…
There was this girl who I was friends with who I found horribly unattractive, but she was into me. We were all drinking at a club and I crashed at her house. We were both drinking but just passed out wherever.
In the middle of the night I wake up and (I’m keeping this clean for the purposes of this forum)… let’s just say she’s undressed and fiddling with all of our bits n’ pieces trying to get things going.
I was grossed out only because I was not into her. But I told her to get dressed and this is not happening. She complied, was a bit embarrassed, but everything was fine. I understand she was trying to make a waaaay aggressive move but ceased when told to.
We all moved on and now it’s a funny private story.
Point is… was she inappropriate based on the scenario? Yes. Did I consider myself sexually assaulted. NO.
Would someone else take a different view? Yes. That’s fine. You breathe the wrong way on someone and they thing they’ve been assaulted.
But in ALL circumstances would she be arrested if she were a man and I was a woman? YES.
It’s a complete double standard. It always has been and always will be.
We were both adults of age and I have to also take responsibility of drinking and hanging out with someone who was reeeeaally interested in hooking up.
If you are reading this and completely disagree…. then that is your right to feel differently. So we all shouldn’t be forcing our perspectives on each other.
The only thing we should be agreeing on is protecting minors and protecting all-ages against true assaults (physical restraints… body fluids… blackmail… extortion … drugged or anything else against your will).
Are you being purposely obtuse or ignoring key facts?
Served two drinks by Takei and felt faint and the room was swirling and then passed out
But he’s gay so it’s ok right?
You’re gross
TUP,
Re: gross
Agreed. It feels as gross and creepy as when that morals believing Alabama Senate candidate said it was OK for him to pursue underage teen girls because he got their parents’ permission.
I totally agree with every word of this.
It really sickens me that these accusers come out 30 plus 40 years later. All it takes was for this whole Weinstein scandal and now everyone wants to come out of the woodwork. I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for the victims who waited so long to come out. If you was really a victim…you would come out right away. Not 1 day later….a month later…years later…no…get your butt down to a precinct and file a report right away.
@Alec Grimes — right, because 40 years ago it was so easy to be taken seriously as a gay man alleging sexual harassment? Or a 14 year old girl in the deep South of a powerful District attorney?
Alec Grimes,
I was born and raised in the South. There’s little difference between this victim blaming of yours, and the same blaming of the slaves for slavery because they were so easy to capture and enslave for all those years.
You need to pay more attention to history and the current reporting. The perpetrators back then were just as armed to the teeth with bribes, campaign contributions, lawyers, hired agents, etc. to maintain their status quo. Reporting it was never as simple a formula for success as you are painting this to be. The mismatch of power in the courtroom and the press was palpable. It was not as merely a simple act with nothing but positive righteous consequences as you suggest.
@Disinvited. I understand what you are saying….what I am saying is that these victims……we are in 2017 now….going on 2018. 30 years ago would put it at 1982. My point is this…if someone molest you or there is a sexual harassement….I don’t care what year it is….even if no action is taken….you file a report. At least have it documented. And the thing is this also….some of the victims ( speaking of hollywood ) they stayed quiet to further their careers. So what does that say about them ? I have to clarify that…if they stayed quiet out of furthering their careers….then shame on them. Those are the ones I have no sympathy for. The ones that stayed quiet to further their careers. As for slavery….it goes on today. Truthfully, and this may upset some people. I don’t care about that…why ? I wasn’t around at that time. I was born in 1973 and I came to this country when I was7 years old. I came from Barbados and I knew nothing about slavery and discrimination until I set foot in the united states. Yes…I am aware many slaves were brought from Africa to the west indies….hundreds of years ago. But I did not walk in the shoes of my ancestors. Two…yes….slavery survives in many forms to this very day. What do you think minimum wage is ? It’s modified slavery. Oh…lets pay them something so it’s not called slavery. 3rd…and your quote: “The perpetrators back then were just as armed to the teeth with bribes, campaign contributions, lawyers, hired agents, etc. to maintain their status quo. ” end quote. So if you are going to go after those that are accused of these allegations….you have to go after every single one of those you mentioned….the ones that are still alive.
In the case of Anthony Rapp…he could have said something a year ago. 5 years ago…ten years ago. Why do you have to wait for a big fish to fry to come out that Spacey tried to take you to bed. Wow…a 14 year old and a 26 year old man….where the hell was his parents at ? Who lets a 14 year old go to an adult party ? Yes….children sometimes go to adult parties…but you best believe….when that party is over…that 14 year old is going home with the parents. Mr. Rapp knew what he was looking for. Seriously…you make it all the way inside his bedroom….? Come on now. If it was me…I would be like…no…I don’t need to go in your bedroom. Yes…spacey could have made his move anywhere in the house…and 14 year old Mr. rapp could have hightailed it outta there.
Wow!!! Of all the nasty posts ever posted on this site (and this site is pretty good really) this is the worst.
It’s one thing to actually think this but imagine being so misguided to think it’s a relevant position to express publicly.
I’m flabbergasted by the victim shaming that has gone on in recent weeks. Really truly sad
What a vile comment.
I agree. I like that this site doesn’t moderate heavy handed but attacking victims should be an easy out.
I will agree that in some cases, some of the people coming out really bother me… some of the most highly paid actresses who knew of or were preyed on by Weinstein and stayed silent for years… that’s crap. Once they had millions and have the courage to be political … they needed to come out and make the case to stop Weinstein…
but someone like Anthony Rapp, he has my full sympathy here. He had a reasonable belief that he could be crushed by Spacey, and he may not have had or come me to believe that there were others that Spacey preyed on…. and he was 14.
—- and then you have this crap against Takei. That’s crap. I really don’t care much for Takei because I think he is so petty about Shatner… but this sounds like maybe Takei did het way to grabby on a date… but it was a date, and there was alcohol involved, and both were adults. This seems like a nasty story to all of a sudden come out after 35 years.
It’s interesting to see the irony when those who claim to be on the moral high ground and are critical of others as is the case for Hollywood and people like George Takei and then the spotlight is turned inward toward them. This looks like yet another case of liberal hypocrisy. Takei is in the same boat as politician Judge Moore. Who do you believe and why doesn’t everyone get the benefit of the doubt or the presumption of innocence?
I really hope that this isn’t true. So many people who I once respected are turning out to be scumbags, and I don’t want George Takei on that list.
Sulu must’ve been mixing up Warp Core Breaches loooooong before they were doing it in Vegas at Quarks.
So how it works is…
Someone is accused of something and then is crucified in the public without a trial. Then if someone dares to suggest the accused could be innocent they are “victim blaming”. Highly illogical.
That is not to say that there couldn’t be truth to the accusations but it is not fair to crucify those accused of these things without proof nor is it right to crucify those who point this out.
One cannot simply make a statement of accusation and have it be treated as truth. Alleged victims and the accused need to be given equal bias and scruinity. Unfortunately the public believes they have the license to be judge, jury and executioner.
I’m sure some one here if not more than one will even take my logical statements and accuse me of being a “victim blamer”. Nothing could be further than the truth. If said allegations are proven true, whatever fitting punishment should be enacted on the accused.
However there should also be a penalty to alleged victims making for things up. False allegations have ruined lives and no matter what those lives are forever ruined. The accused are always seen as guilty even if proven innocent in the public eye.
On the inverse, a true or untrue victim of sexual misconduct is more able to move forward in the public eye as they will always be the victim to people. There’s sympathy and support with that whether it’s justified or not.
A fair ground is needed to tackle this issue. It is unlikely someone who really had something happen to them would come out if they can’t prove their case in court. At the very least the public should stop pretending they know everything and believing everything. Just because one can believe something doesn’t mean they should, certainly without proper evidence to support it.
Takei admitted to behavior like this on Howard Stern’s show. The man is such a far left lunatic and not a very nice guy. It’s unfortunate he is part of one of my favorite things.
Jack D,
Your problem is relying on STERN, notorious for editing his audio especially when it comes to Takei, for the unexpurgated truth:
http://trekmovie.com/2017/11/11/george-takei-denies-accusation-of-sexual-assault/#comment-5375584
You can’t believe everything you hear on Stern’s show.
look on the bright side..there wont be any more shatner jibes from takei for a while
Even after having listened to the “Stern tapes” of Takei – and as I have said before, I am not a big fan of Takei and his constant whining about Shatner, or years of whining about Captain Sulu —- but I want to add a couple things.
There is a real danger here in applying todays values to some isolated incidents which happened between adults 30 or more years ago. People have brought up NBC execs during TOS, and Roddenberry, and Shatner, and whatever from fifty years ago.
You cannot judge behavior from half a century ago based on what is acceptable today. Yes, there was bad behavior then, just as many adults have bad behavior in their past. Hopefully we all grow up from how we acted 20 years ago and mature over time.
You shouldn’t judge Takei by some things he did in the 1980s or Shatner or Roddenberry in the 1960s unless they continued that behavior through today. That’s the difference with Weinstein – he continues that behavior now. Or with Spacey, it was things he was doing to children, which was despicable and possibly criminal in 1985, or in 2005, or 2017, or in 1965. Those two need to be brought to task for what they have done and who they have victimized – whether that can be done in court, or whether it happens socially, the gravity and scale of what was done is entirely different than what a much younger George Takei may have done with men who were on dates with him.
With Roddenberry we have heard a lot over many years about that man’s flaws- but there is no price to be paid now, and nobody is even asking for it, and the record was already spotted. You can reflect and say well you shouldn’t do this or do that, but you can’t call him out for anything he has done. He’s dead and gone.
As for me, it doesn’t change a bit of what I think of Takei – I still think he is a bitter, petty man for some of his decades long bitching, but I also still appreciate the contribution he has made to Trek, and even though I am a conservative, I respect (and sometimes appreciate) the contributions he has made he has made to our society and to the causes he promotes. I often think he is funny on some subjects. He is flawed as we all are – with things in his past he probably isn’t proud of. If you are proud of everything you have ever done, then you probably need to examine and reflect on that some more.
If I was the admin of this site, I would seriously consider removing this story. I don’t think it is adding anything to Trek at all.
martin,
And given that Stern is known to edit recordings of Takei for his show, even those are dubious contributions to either angle of this story.
I agree with you that there’s no “there” there in regards to the Spacey story. This is why I was surprised it was mentioned at all as a story with a connection to Spacey/Rapp over the Collins’ story with its greater number of story points in common, and verified actual recordings of Collins confessing.
Until Takei says this was an edited conversation, then I tend to believe the Stern tape. But it doesn’t matter. Nothing in that tape indicates that Takei was a predator on kids, or that he raped anyone. That he may have groped a date, it isn’t great – but it doesn’t make him a monster either – especially if it is behavior that he clearly isn’t proud of and wouldn’t do now (which is what the Stern tape directly shows).
I assume from the first sentence of the second paragraph, you mean there is nothing there in the TAKEI story. I agree.
martin,
Re: nothing there in the TAKEI story
There, we agree.
Where we disagree is I’m not going to suspend my skepticism about 3rd hand recordings hosted on web sites unconnected to Stern or his satellite employer that offer no provenance as to how they acquired and preserved the integrity of unedited sources for their Takei recordings. And I hang it on Stern to actually make the claim before I’d ask Takei to bother denying them.
FWIW ABC reports Takei has posted on facebook that the recordings are indeed being taken out of context as they are part of a regular comedic skit he performs where he plays the part of a naughty gay grandparent.
I don’t do facebook so I hope trekmovie.com, which does, updates the story with his exact quotes.
I still say I would rather Trekmovie drop the whole story thread and all. It is TMZ level BS. If some actual evidence of a recent or recurring crime – or at least something more than groping a date, comes out, maybe then have a story. But this is way too much of the hysteria and it is not a story.
I just saw one of the reports where Takei says that the recording is just a naughty skit, taken out of context.
Ok, in that case, Takei is a absolute dumbass. This “skit” occurs in the middle of the current Weinstein blowup, and he thinks he should joke about this. That is just opening the door for someone to come up and make a false claim or for someone to just listen to what he says and take it the wrong way, (and by wrong way, take it for what he is saying).
I maintain this is still not a story, but just based on what Takei has handled this, he is a dumbass.
This whole comments thread seems clearly a lot of people who have made up their minds one way or the other based on things larger than these allegations.
As for comments about profits, and liberal Hollywood, and hypocrisy – there have been sex scandals on both sides of the political aisle, from actors like James Woods (conservative) to Kevin Spacey (liberal) as well as politicians from Presidents Bush (41) and Clinton, so trying to pin this all one set of hypocrites is ridiculous. Neither political party intends to advocate for non-consensual sex in any form, and being a rape advocate would hardly excuse a criminal act, and anyone in the political or personal arena who violates that rule is obviously a hypocrite. Stop making it about your petty politics.