Reminder: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Episode 9 ‘Into the Forest I Go’ Debuts Tonight

| November 12, 2017 | By: TrekMovie.com Staff 238 comments so far

Star Trek: Discovery debuts its ninth episode tonight, the last episode until January, 2018. 

There’s been a lot of excitement brewing around this episode from those on the show, and folks who have seen it early.

Preview: “Into the Forest I Go”

Star Trek: Discovery – Season 1, Episode 9

Bypassing Starfleet’s orders, Lorca uses the USS Discovery crew’s ultimate asset, the ship itself, in an effort to end the war with the Klingons once and for all.

The episode will be available in the US on CBS All Access at 8:30 pm ET (5:30 PT). In Canada it airs on the Space Channel at 8:00 pm ET (5:00 pm PT).  And it will be available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada on Monday at 8 am BST.

Promo videos

Clip from IndieWire

CBS episode preview

Photos

Followed by ‘After Trek’ episode 8

The eighth episode of the Discovery after-show After Trek streams live on CBS All Access tonight at 9:30 pm ET. With Sonequa Martin-Green, Mary Wiseman, and the writers of “Into the Forest I Go,” Bo Yeon Kim & Erika Lippoldt.

If you tweet questions to @startrekcbs with the tag #AfterTrek they may be answered during the show.

After Trek also airs on Space in Canada at midnight ET and will be available on Netflix on Monday.

What say you?

TrekMovie will be posting a full review of “Into the Forest I Go” later. But you don’t have to wait to offer your views in the comments below.

 

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Bring the A-1 sauce!

Indeed :-) Don’t think it is just “Steaks” that are high this Sunday evening!

A properly prepared steak doesn’t need A-1 (as much as I do like the sludge). Of course, we rarely live in that world.

Doing a binge rewatch of first 8 episodes leading up to watching fall finale. I’m actually enjoying the show even more watching it like this.

Just hope its good. It will be very easy for people to cancel subscriptions if this one doesn’t really leave people wanting more.

It’s good, but I’m not sure we care about the characters enough.

Tyler completely comes through for me in this one, but I didn’t really care for him before. Tilly isn’t anywhere really. Saru annoys me. For some reason, Burnham isn’t coming across as well. She just feels forced down my throat to me. I’m not sure where I stand on Lorca.

I care more about Dr. Culver than I do about Burnham. I really wish he’ll be given more space later on. He’s a breakout character for me.

I like the Burnham story. I like Tilly, because she looked like a chick version of me, and she is my perspective. Culber is ok, but I am surprised I don’t like him more, because I have always liked Wilson Cruz. My favorites are Lorca and Stamets and Cornwell, and especially Stamets. And I should mention my favorite is Stamets. Stamets.

For a straight conservative, I find myself liking Stamets way too much.

I will say at the beginning the characters just felt a bit too unlikeable for me. I mean there is a difference between not really feeling for them because they feel a bit too different or undeveloped (how I felt about the DS9 characters originally after getting so use to the TNG ones) but I never thought they were straight up A-holes like I felt a lot of these started out.

Of course thats changing for me as I knew it would but I don’t have the same compassion as I do others yet (for some odd reason I took to the Voyager characters right away even if it took a little time to really like them). But now as we see them bond a little more I am liking them. I never had an issue with Burnham though but many seem to. Ash is oddly enough the one I liked from the beginning and why I’m happy the whole Voq in disguise theory is not true.

Why do you know the Voq-Tyler theory isn’t true?

Yeah, I think you may be jumping the gun on calling that theory disproven.
I thought L’rells promise that she would not let anyone harm him might support the theory. Waiting for someone to screen shot the torture sequences, because I think we may have seen Voq in those.

I don’t think that Voq isn’t somehow connected with Ash, I just don’t believe he directly is Ash as in turned human because A. It would destroy everything we have learned about Ash, especially his PTSD and would feel cheap if none of it happened B. It would just feel too stupid now. But yes it could still happen I just give the writers more credit than that I guess. I just mean in that sense. He could still be connected to Ash mentally or consciously somehow.

Quite honestly, last night’s episode was the first time I started thinking Ash might really be Voq. After the nightmare his “what did you do to me line” could just as easily have been uttered by Voq, his memories now restored yet in a human body.

I hope they don’t go there. I hope it’s just Ash being reprogrammed. I’m just not sure anymore.

I’m cancelling until about 3 episodes in to the second half…. but I reserve the right to jump back in as soon as ep#10 comes out. This was good enough to make me want more…but I was already hooked.

I like a nice New York Strip myself..

Hate to sound cynical but at this point I’m tired of HEARING Lorca complain about Discovery being full of naive scientists etc and want to SEE something happen. A big problem I’m having with this series (and it’s been ok, though hardly mind blowing) is there’s been a lot of telling and not enough showing.

Agreed. One of the most promising early themes was the divide between Starfleet’s scientist/explorers and its soldiers, which never got followed-up on at all. Too bad, because they had the opportunity to improve on DS9’s record in that respect.

To be honest I didn’t see that as a big conflict though. At least one they were setting up. Yes Staments clearly had issue with it but you didn’t hear anyone else complain. And he really complained because they took his, sorry, discovery and instead of using it for science and exploration as he originally intended it they used it as a war tactic and forced him to work on it for that purpose.

I can’t blame him for feeling bitter but everyone else, at least on Discovery, seems to completely believe in what they were doing. They may not have liked some of Lorca’s decisions (like many on Voyager had with Janeways) but most followed assuming in the end it will work out.

Yes, well, that’s certainly the way it turned out. Just one more missed opportunity, sad to say. This show had so much potential, and after tonight’s episode I don’t even know what it’s supposed to be about anymore.

I certainly get your point, that was something they could’ve really delve into because as you said, it is weird how Star Trek is made up of scientists and explorers but then they are asked to turn into hardened military officers when real trouble shows up like the Borg and the Dominion and everyone just falls in line.

I have said it on Reddit as well how odd that sort of is and there isn’t any actual trained military for these situations. Yes they are trained for combat clearly but wouldn’t you want people whose entire professions are about fighting the enemy and years of experience doing it when the big boys show up? I will at least give Enterprise credit where they addressed it a little after the Xindi attack and you at last saw military come aboard the ship and that drew interesting conflict even if end of the day they all basically fought like they were in the military.

As for your other issue I have to agree to an extent because we know the Klingon story line was just suppose to be a season but then are we suppose to just expect them to be explorers again and just go back to it like its another episode of TOS or TNG? It is kind of weird because we don’t TRULY know what the show is about lol. I never thought of it that way but you’re right.

My guess is Discovery will never be a strictly exploration ship and combing through the final frontier. I’m guessing it will stay this very experimental ship and sort of do covert operations for Starfleet. Not quite Section 31 as so many of us thought (but it can still EASILY go that direction) but maybe a ship that does the high risk missions regular ships only do ever so often.

Lorca is kick ass hell ya insurrection done properly!

I’m getting a ‘The Best of Both Worlds’ feeling.

Wouldn’t THAT be something! ;)

Bring on the Borg!

so far best star trek episode ever

Bravo, thank you! Best episode ever!!

How so?

Emotional on different levels for different characters. Great dialogue, problem solving, defending an alien planet while disobeying orders. Good moral and ethical dilemma. Nice combat tactics. The entire episode captured Star Trek its finest. The end scene with Stamets and the unknown. Do you agree?

Completely agree!! Its been awhile since I’ve been this on edge wondering what would happen

Absolutely terrific episode! A+

Agreed very powerful and emotional episode, spoilers happy admiral cornwall is safe and alive. It looks like they jumped to the mirror universe at the end there. L’Rell looks at ash the way she looked at Voq, she wont let them hurt him ie Ash is Voq. A++

While something is going on with Tyler I don’t know that he isn’t human on some level. As for L’Rell’s looks towards Tyler I have always felt she likes him more than she ever liked Voq which isn’t saying much. She will say and do whatever necessary in order to achieve her goals. I also appreciated the exploration of Tyler’s PTSD/sexual assault in this episode. It was long overdue. Most of the rest of the cast also had some great moments. Surprised though that Kol died. Expected him to live longer.

Thank god that idiotic Voq is Ash theory is put to rest. His consciousness may be part of him somehow but he’s clearly Ash at least.

How was the thoery put to rest? There is more to Ash than meets the eye, still a sleeper agent in my opinion.

He’s clearly his own person. Yes he was manipulated and yes Voq may be inside of him in some crazy sci fi way but its not the idiotic theory where they turned a Klingon into a human overnight, gave him some new identity, had him learn perfect English and he’s now posing as a human out of nowhere. That’s what I’m talking about. They spent the entire episode of him reliving his PTSD and why he hates L’Rell so much. That would feel like a cheat if it was just a stunt.

I know we aren’t done with that story line but Ash is an actual person who had a life before Discovery and I’m glad its going in THAT direction at least.

Yes, very probable its really Ash but L’Rell has done something sinister to him. Voq is inside Ash, would make the most sense as L’Rell has been written onto Discovery with access to Ash now. They cant just forget about the Voq story line. I am betting Voq being inside Ash will play largely in this series.

Yes thats a theory I can go with and have said it would fall in line to what we seen on Trek many, many, many times before and an alien taking over a human body for their own bidding. I don’t think we ever seen a Klingon do it but I think literally every show from TOS through Enterprise we seen this thing happened before.

So I don’t think the Voq story line is over either I just didn’t want it to be where Ash was secretly just ‘playing along’ and then suddenly we find out its Voq turning into the greatest super spy in the history of Trek. The other way just makes more sense and it would’nt feel lame like it would’ve have if Ash was just a Klingon all along. And this direction gives us a deeper layer of the character.

I agree with you @somethoughts though I don’t want it to be true, because I really like Ash. I hope he somehow overcomes this.

Ash could be like Boomer in Battlestar Galactica – unaware of his sleeper agent status until he’s activated. In old Trek canon, the Klingons had a “mind sifter.” Some such device could have taken real Tyler’s memories and grafted them into Voq/Tyler.

I too am hoping that at the end he will still be human Tyler. It seemed like he was still there. I like the exploration of the PTSD as it’s new territory for Star Trek. It’s previous forays have been limited to a single episode. Plus Shazad did a good acting job in this episode where those issues were concerned.

My thoughts exactly! ONE of the best Star Trek episodes ever. I love this show!

More and more I get the feeling the first two episodes were a waste of time and ressources. There were other ways of getting the back story going.

Discovery has found its stride now.

the payoff is better when the seeds planted in the first 2 episodes

Yes and no. We still haven’t gotten to the end of the season yet. More story may come out of that two parter than we know. But yes I can’t disagree so far it does feel like it was a bit unnecessary but I think they wanted to show Burnham falling hard.

The first two episodes were simply a prologue. I didn’t find them to be wasteful at all.

Yeah. Not quite worth the six or so meandering post-Shenzou episodes it took to get here, but good. I’d have liked to have seen this pace more often (no Sarek, no Mudd).

Agreed. Could’ve done without the TOS fanboy stuff but if they are in the MU my guess is we may get it in a big way coming back. But this was a good episode. I guess because it finally felt like the story has, excused the pun, jumped in a big way.

It was odd to me that Lorca was pulling so much data on the alternate universes…

Is anyone else getting the vibe that he may be trying to get home? Given the scar on his back?

When Stamets said that he wanted only one more jump before he was done Lorca was worried. It was also ominous when Lorca was entering in the coordinate.

But at the same time Lorca looked just as confused as everyone at where they ended up.

I am curious as to what all you guys gathered from that

Also, when Lorca has presented the award he looked worried, almost as if he was suspecting a trap and that they would be removing his command.

At first I thought he might just be a damaged character with a rough backstory in war, but I’m really getting a villain vibe and I truly hope I am wrong because I love his character.

Unless he ends up being a mirror universe Lorca and we get the origonal one back.

Kind of like how the Admiral told him he completely changed after the Buran

Lorca continues to be the most interesting character in Discovery for me, precisely because I still can’t figure him out.

Did he motivate Stamets into performing the 137 jumps by revealing his data or did he manipulate him by telling him what he wanted to hear? Did he allow himself to be convinced to let Stamets make the last, ill fated jump or did he maneuver Stamets into volunteering? He deftly motivated his crew into buying in to a potential suicide mission, or did he just tell them what they wanted to hear? He didn’t strike me as the kind of person who would have cared about defending Pahvo but ended up doing just that, or was he itching for another fight with the Klingons and used Pahvo as an excuse?. So many questions.

Still, I do think he was genuinely confused at the end and the ominous music was meant to foreshadow something bad happening. His look when was told he was getting that award struck me as more as that of a man questioning whether he deserved it than any concern over Cornwell (no way the Federation would ever strip him of his command after his victory at Pahvo).

This was probably the best episode of Discovery so far; Burnham was not as wooden as in other important moments and Sonequa Martin Green was quite effective in her scenes on the Klingon Ship. Ash’s unresolved issues and his emerging fears and doubts are becoming gut-wrenching and Shazad Latif really played it all well. It will be interesting to see where they end up and how long this apparent detour to the mirror universe lasts.

I feel like Lorca has to care to some extent about the actual mission of Starfleet. I don’t think he would have been able to rise all the way to Captain of one of their newest vessels without having some vested interest in what it is they do. Plus Cornwall knows him pretty well (as far as we can tell) and she seemed genuinely surprised that he was able to manipulate himself through the tests required to get back to active duty.

He definitely is the most interesting character for me as well. Definitely keeping my fingers crossed that he is part of the show as it continues into it’s next season.

Did anyone notice him entering the co-ordinates for the jump, like he was overriding the jump to th station? Also with L’Rell saying no one will hurt you and soon…… The PTSD flashbacks were more than torture and I’m sure there was a flash of VOQs face

Lorca totally manipulated Stamets into performing those jumps. The man is tricky!

Lorca is a true Captain, he is inspiring ;)

The steaks are also delicious with seasoning, a baked potato with chives and a pint of lager!

NICE!

–Universal translator FINALLY speeds up the tectonically-paced Klingon scenes…

–So, this is NOT a captain-centered show? Coulda fulled me…

–NICE shot structure and pacing…

–Boobies!! (Was hoping for Lursa and B’Etor, but ya know…)

–I worked at WGCL (CBS46) in Atlanta, when it called itself ‘Starbase 46’ for the sake of TNG promos. HA! …

–Yes, this is such a better mid-season cliff-hanger than last week would have been…

WELL DONE! (or is that medium-rare… now, I want a steak.)

‘fooled’ even

Yeah if it was last week as the cliff hanger it would’ve sucked. This was more satisfying because we got to see some of the story finally end and move on to something else, at least for a little wile.

I really liked the cast in this one, especially Ash, Staments and Lorca. They had a great moment. I feel so bad for Ash. Oh and Klingon nudity, thats definitely a first lol. I liked Burnham a lot in this one too and it was nice to see her feel she got revenge for her (former) Captain but she had already gotten it killing T’Kumva. I guess this was more symbolic though. And I was afraid the Klingon war would be done. I’m glad it wasn’t because frankly it would’ve felt lame if it ended with one ship destroyed.

And I’m hoping now when it comes back it can be Star Trek weird again like what happened so much in the other shows. My guess is this is the mirror universe but its not a guarantee. They can be anywhere, in any universe (hell even in the Kelvin universe ;)). Thats what makes the spore drive device fun because as I said when it was introduced it could potentially send them through any universe or dimension or even time. With that kind of plot device its kind of endless where the ship can go and they all but said it in this episode.

Now I’m REALL excited to see what they have planned going forward. This is the Star Trek I been wanting for a long time again.

Yes, at the end they are where no one has gone before. Chance to explore and discover.

Above all else a god needs compassion, Stameeeeeeeets!

“Boobies!! (Was hoping for Lursa and B’Etor, but ya know…)”

So finally, here they are: Star Trek’s first pair of naked boobies. And as I told you three months ago, that premiere would be happing in a very weird, sort of violent, Species-like kinda way, not “natural” make-out among the crew.

The producers once said naked Klingons would be “weird”… Still, the first pair of boobies ever on Star Trek are Klingon.

Surprisingly, I’m sort of fine about it. I wonder whether they were real with body paint on them, animated or prosthetics…

I know in Joel Harlow’s makeup book “Star Trek Beyond” the woman playing Natalia wore a nude colored bra and prosthetics were placed over them. My guess is that was how they did L’Rell as well.

You guys are making me hungry!

wow this series is outstanding. Riveting.

Agreed

Did they give the cow a joint/smoke before they slaughtered and cooked it?

Do I really want to know if the show had them butcher a cow on screen?

“Humans no longer enslave animals for food purposes.” -Riker

Wow! What an amazing episode! What a great way to end their midseason. I was riveted to every second. Lorca is definitely a well written and acted character. I have my own theories about Ash but it has nothing to do with him actually being Vog in disguise.
They really upped their game here. The writers hit a homerun in this episode. Hopefully, they will write more of the episode.
If you haven’t got hooked on Discovery by now, then too bad for you. I’m pretty sure a lot of people will drop their subscriptions to CBS AA now… but I’m guessing 98% will resubscribe in January.

Yeah this felt like a really strong TNG or DS9 episode for me. One where I can rewatch again and again. I still won’t go far as to say I loved it but without a doubt I really enjoyed it and my favorite out of the season. There were a few flaws here and there but very little (one though was expecting actual interaction with the Phavoians(??) since they were the entire catalyst for the battle and they were completely ignored being used as set up in this episode, not story).

But yeah they really brought it in this one. I don’t want to overstate it but it felt on the level of a DS9 episode for me and believe me that’s high praise.

Re: Phavoians.
“We can’t leave. We have to protect the Phavoians from the Klingons.”
“We blew up the Klingon ship. Yay! But there’s more on the way and they’re angry. Ehhh. Let’s go home. Eff the Phavoians.”

LOL I guess I missed that line of dialogue but if true then yeah that’s definitely a big head scratcher. I thought the ships were coming to attack the Discovery directly for blowing up their ship but yeah you’re right the Phavoians are still in danger (although its kind of their fault, idiots).

But yes this is why I can’t love the episode, there are still some things about it that doesn’t sit right. And it kind of bothers me how they set up the whole Phavoian thing but then don’t really use it. It almost like they used it as an excuse for the ships to fight. I have no problem with that but why would they have to send out a message? Why couldn’t the Klingons just figure out what was on the planet themselves and attack it? That would make more logical sense seeing what we got in this episode. It kind of felt tacked on now because we aren’t told ANYTHING about how they felt about it. At least have Saru communicate with them once or something and feel like part of the story. That all felt a bit bizarre.

That’s pretty funny, Blackmocco. Nice one. I was thinking the same thing when I watched it. Ehhh, so now you’re just going to leave them vulnerable? Fair enough…bye!

Middling-level DS9, maybe. It’s not even within a light year of “Duet,” the best episode of DS9’s first season.

I love Duet but the two episodes really aren’t connected to each other thematically in any way.
It doesn’t seem like an apt comparison.

Strictly a comparison in terms of quality. So far as theme goes–well, you’ll have to tell me what the theme of this week’s episode was, because I myself have no idea. It’s a well-produced hour of action-adventure television, and that’s about it.

I am curious about what your theories regarding Tyler are.

I am sure he is Ash and he was a prisoner. But I think that while he was being tortured with a mind shifter, somehow they inbedded Voq’s consciousness into Ash. T
His nightmares and flashbacks are the two consciousnesses existing together. I L’Rell wanted to defect so she can be closer to Ash to “activate” Voq’s consciousness into the forefront. But that’s just my theory as odd as it sounds.

It seems like the pacing of the Klingon dialogue, starting last episode, is getting faster and less Shatneresque.

All I’ll say right now is that it looked like Stamets was about to go all Gary Mitchell.

Still might happen… I thought that too.

As someone who has complained loudly about previous episodes, I felt it only fair to come here and admit that Episode 9 has some phenomenal scenes and was, overall, really good. I cancelled CBSAA two episodes ago, but a friend let me watch them this evening, and this episode was good enough to make me consider re-upping in January. [back to lurking]

The Mirror Universe idea is enticing, but how ’bout those Gary Mitchell eyes?

Stamets says he can see all the permutations. In quantum mechanics it says whatever possibility occurs but in different realities and universies. The cat in a closed box is both dead and alive. Captain Georgio survived in another reality etc

“You’re not a scientist; you’re an explorer. You could have stayed in a lab on Earth, yet you chose to go where no one has gone before.” -Lorca to Stamets

Is it just me or is L’Rell acting strangely toward Tyler? Like she has affection or maybe even love for him.

It was said when Lorca found Ash, L’Rell has taken a liking to him and that is how he has survived for 7 months. At the end she mentions soon, so it is probable her motive and what happened to Ash will be revealed soon.

Yeah I know… I’m just the flashback scenes looked more than just torture like a transformation was going on. I have been hoping he isn’t Voq but Part of me thinks I saw his face in the flash backs. But then you seem his dreaming of them having sex so who knows… so many possibilities

I don’t think it was a dream as much as it was a nightmare. Plus Tyler can’t consent when he is a prisoner so it was L’Rell sexually assaulting him versus them having sex. IMO. As for the other flashbacks scenes they still looked like torture to me.

She really likes that guy lol. It is an odd situation between those two but clearly since they made sure she was going to be along for the ride to wherever they are they are going to really explore it. I see why they focused on the character and actress pre-show because her arc is clearly the strongest out of all the Klingons and frankly the only one thats been interesting for me. I liked T’Kumva but they killed him off way too early. Voq just feels like a poor substitute frankly. Kol is fun to watch, kind of like General Chang, minus the charm, but it was obvious that guy was going down since all he did was talk about having power and be a prick and and little else.

I loved T’Kuvma and was definitely bummed to see him go. It was the right decision for the story, but Chris Obi nailed that part!

I think the flashback scene were the transformation into VOQ! Something more than torture went on

Really difficult now, in the midst of my disappointment, to understand why everyone is so jazzed over this episode. Some nice direction for sure, but I didn’t feel that the writers did their job half so well. Where was the emotional catharsis, or genuine suspense, or philisophical playfulness we get with the best of Trek? Where are the real adult costs and choices we were supposed to get with a streaming show? “Balance of Terror”-level quality? Sorry, but this wasn’t even in the same universe as that story. After tonight I’m not even sure what Discovery is supposed to be about anymore, much less why I should care.

Sorry that you were disappointed.
I was really satisfied with it.

Same here, Gary. Loved the episode, oh well for people who didn’t. Watch something else or wait for it to improve in your eyes, those are the choices!

I loved it, too bad some didnt enjoy it as much as some of us did.

I disagree. I initially thought that this episode was rushed, until I saw it again. I think that various threads have been brought toward some kind of quasi-conclusion, and yet there are essential questions yet to be resolved.

Ohe of the producers said recently that this was a novel for television, and that the Klingon war arc would end with the first “novel,” — i.e., with the 6 episodes beginning in 2018. I had always been very skeptical of the “novel for television” concept beginning with Babylon 5, but I’ve come to re-examine and revise my opinion. I applaud how this series is proceeding. I think it is thought-out exploration of one ship, with one crew, in this fictional universe that ostensibly is a fictional extension of our own.

I would relax about the questions of completeness, since there are hours of DSC still ahead, and, one hopes, many more seasons.

Well Said.

Thank you, Gary 8.5.

I do agree with you that this series is not the same philosophically oriented programming that we have come to expect of Star Trek. However, variety is the spice of life. I am certain that underneath the complex plot points are philosophical points worth teasing out.

With many works of fiction, sometimes the best philosophical statements are those that require substantial investigation much beyond what is sock-puppeted by the characters. I think that some of the least appealing of TOS and TNG episodes were those in which the characters conspicuously mouthed the ideas the writers were trying to convey. I personally believe that “speechifying” can be a form of lazying writing. I’ thinking of the “Son of God” statement that Kirk made in one episode, for example, which while moving, now would never seem to reach the sophistication we expect of television.

Subtlety has advantages of which most forms of fiction have availed,

Some things deserve to be speechified. TASTE OF ARMAGEDDON has that ‘war is a very messy business’ hitting it on the head biz, but given what we’ve just seen, it is merited. the B&C son of god thing you mention is just wince-making for me, and it was when I first saw it as a teen in the early 70s, but if I’d seen it at age 6 when I was still a brainwashed/devoted Catholic, it might have been a big staying point for me. RETURN TO TOMORROW’s ‘risk is our business’ speech is about as unsubtle as you can be, short of ‘no more blahblahblah,’ yet once I got over the unabashed boldness of it, is among my fave Kirk bits (most of those are the smaller ones, like ‘go to your quarters or I’ll pick you up and carry you there.’)

Personally, usually I like subtlety in when it is handled in a blink-and-you-miss-it kind of way, when it is really oblique. Wrote a script where the main character hadn’t fired a gun in two decades, and kind of talked around the ‘why ‘ of the thing for the whole movie. Partly it was because I was afraid of being all contrived cornball (had burst out laughing recently when LETHAL WEAPON 2 came to homevid and they did that revelation about who REALLY killed Riggs’ wife, which I thought was the hoariest old angle imaginable), but essentially it is because our main guy had been a young guardsman at Kent State, and he knows he fired once (‘only once — my barrel was still cold afterward’), but not if he hit anyone. Anyway, rather than have him give the big self revelatory speech, I cut away from him reflecting on it to where his ex-wife, who has been kidnapped by a long-underground 60s radical, is being held. And what we see is the famous poster from Kent State in tatters on the wall — that’s pretty oblique, but I though it would be enough to suggest the main guy was a shooter during that incident. You’d probably have to make the movie to see if this bit of subtlety actually would have worked, but that is definitely how I would lean most of the time … but not always on TREK.

Thank you for an interesting response. I have not looked at the Lethal Weapon movies anywhere as closely as necessary to respond thereto.

However, we seem to very much agree that oblique or subtle references are for the best.

“Don’t simply say it. Show it. And you will prevail.”

:)

I really liked this episode but I can’t really disagree with what you said either. I think they could’ve bought in the philosophical angle if they simply gave the Phavoians an actual story in this one instead of just ignoring them the entire episode although they were the catalyst for the events that happened.

I think many felt they were going for the Organians vibe and while I wouldn’t want that same plot line it would’ve been really interested if they simply objected to Starfleet bringing the Klingons to ‘talk’ and the planet got destroyed over it. That would’ve been something we wouldn’t have seen coming because we all knew Discovery would save the planet. I don’t really understand why they were set up to be the third characters in the story but then just ignored. It would’ve been great to see someone on Discovery, even Lorca, try to plead their case why bringing the Klingons to talk was a bad idea. Something more than just a story about trying to reveal flaws in their cloaking technology.

But other stuff happened too like what was going on with Ash and of course the decision Staments made but I will admit thats basic Star Trek stuff they done on shows like DS9 over and over again. But also why I liked it I guess.

When watching the Pahvian episode, I had an Avatar vibe, myself. This was Avatar in Star Trek form. And I loved it.

The standards are pretty low. Was it great Star Trek? Nope. Great television? Not really. But it was entertaining and well-paced — and it set up some (more) mysteries.

It’s kinda just… “Enterprise” Season 3 again, in that it’s focused so much harder on the action, production value and serialization more than it is the characters or a really deep, cohesive vision of where to take the show. I don’t hate it, but it feels unfocused and frenetic, like it’s aiming to be slick rather than slick and truly thought-provoking.

Yes, it was great Star Trek, in my opinion. Just in a slower, less explicit, more novelistic form.

I loved science-fiction short stories and even novellas, but have rarely liked any kind of long-form SF lit. I like novels, but science-fiction has always been my cup of tea primarily when it was succinct. (Exceptions include the Dune series.)

I am re-examining my issue with long science-fiction formats. I credit Star Trekx Discovery and, yes, DS9, of course, for this. As they say at McDonald’s, I’m lovin’ it.

“Star Trek Discovery,” as corrected.

Have you seen The Expanse? IMO even better than NuBSG. Two series that are really worth watching “long-term”, although I also prefer the episodic format.

I have seen it, and really like it for the most part. Guess that will be my go-to SF series at this point unless DSC really manages to turn things around in January. Given the conviction on the part of the producers that this episode was something really special, I’m not very hopeful that will happen.

Discovery can be uneven is places. I chalk it up to first season problems. I know personally I have seen episodes people love and I can’t stand them. My interest in some of the characters have kept me going through some of its more problematic episodes.

Damn Michael. We can’t agree on anything! Haha! I LOVED that one! I think the show has mostly delivered on the fronts you mention, although I suspect that’ll become more clear rewatching it all in one big lump rather than being drip fed an episode a week.

That felt pretty solid to me. Burnham gets to resolve a little of her guilt over Giorgiou’s death and strikes a huge blow towards ending a conflict she’s been blamed for starting. Her (well-intentioned but obviously incorrect) mutiny notwithstanding, she’s the closest thing to a Kirk-ian character we’ve had on Trek in decades- a character who makes big decisions without a second thought. When she stepped out on the Klingon ship and challenged Kor, man, I was ready to cheer. Her whole arc has led to this moment.

I didn’t see any real catharsis in her challenging Kol, just a fairly by-the-numbers fight that really didn’t go anywhere. The thing is, I like Burnham as a character (even if I don’t find her all that likable personally), and see SMG as a gifted, charismatic actress. Her Vulcan/human background and fractured personality would be a treasure trove of interesting motivations and backstory for writers who had the talent and experience with both Trek and long-form storytelling to develop it. Frankly, I’m now having considerable doubts that sort of talent can be found in the Discovery writer’s room. I’ll continue to watch, and hope that I’m wrong.

Agreed on the Vulcan/human background. At this point, I don’t even know why they went with it. It hasn’t provided anything satisfying or interesting so far. She could have been from Earth and been the exact same character.

But I’ve been okay with most of the rest of it. I think the 13 (15 with the prologue) episode format has hamstrung the show a bit. Stuff skips by a little too quickly before it can make an impact whereas with even just 20 eps, stuff could have been fleshed out a bit more. Even Stamets in the med bay last night seemed to me an opportunity for an entire episode to focus on and flesh out some of the concepts. Honestly, I think the best thing is just to judge it on its own merits rather than comparing it to other incarnations of the show. Hard to do with something that bears the Star Trek name, it’s true, but Discovery is – if nothing else – very much doing its own thing.

Too bad you were disappointed Micheal. I thought it was definitely the strongest episode so far. I was on the edge of my seat the whole tim. Pacing was excellent! Fantastic writing as well.

I’ll agree with you about pacing, but what was it about the writing that struck you as so fantastic? Yes — the director, cast, and post-production people all did their jobs splendidly. But did the writers? How so?

Because the story was compelling.

Again, how so? I’m not being snarky; honestly, I just don’t get it. Lorca has a plan to figure out the cloaking device; Stamets goes nuts; Tyler goes postal; Cornwall gets rescued; L’Rell gets jail time; and Discovery gets stranded. All quite nicely directed and acted, and very little that meaningfully builds on anything we’ve seen before or that moves the story forward in ways that truly matter. Instead, it offers-up mysteries about Tyler’s identity, L’Rell’s loyalty and the ship’s location, and while there’s nothing wrong with such mysteries per se they’re cheap plastic substitutes for the kind of suspense, drama and insight that “Balance of Terror” achieved over fifty years ago.

You’ve always been iffy about the show anyway so I’m not surprised you don’t get it. Go rewatch Balance of Terror again… It’s not as suspenseful as you remember. That’s the thing about nostalgia, you remember the memories that surround things, not how good the things actually were. Whn I was a kid, TOS was the best written, best acted, best drama ever! And yeah, balance of terror acheived amazing drama and suspense… but like you said… that was 50 years ago.
With your logic… Enterprise shadows Romulans. Romulans find out. Cat and mouse… blah blah blah. Very predictable these days. Supergirl has more suspenseful episodes. I’m a huge TOS fan… but it is what it is… for 50 year old show.

1. Excellent episode.

2. “OVERRIDE – LORCA, G.” appears on the console display between jump 132 and 133, which by the way, is designated as coordinates “unknown.” The last jump, however, should be jump 134. It’s possible that there was a glitch in the system and that Lorca wanted to alter the computer logs, causing this anomaly.

Maybe Lorca didnt want to go back to starbase 46, and in some form is responsible for the incomplete jump.

The problem is that the android character stated that they had completed jump 133. The display is a clue. The error can be retroactively explained away as a partially successful attempt by Lorca to electronically manipulate the logs that resulted in a misnumbering, since an override is probably very rare. Anyway, I am in love with the clues that writers drop.

Also, I believe Voq is Tyler in some way or form — or vice versa.

This could be accounted for by the fact that computers count from zero. i.e. on old 8-bit computers, if a byte could hold 256 values, the actual decimal equivalents would be 0 to 255.

Possibly, but this is beyond my pay grade. :-) All I know is what the interface tells me. If your explanation supports my “display glitch” theory, then I agree.

I think they just stored into the prime universe

Discovery is already set in the Prime Universe.

Are you sure? I had this thought for myself, too. Didn’t they just say it is not the Kelvin line? But even when: If they now jumped to the main universe it would be true to say Disco plays there.

I was thinking the same thing.

I thought this was a well-directed, well-paced, absorbing episode with good character moments. I enjoyed it. But I feel like I ate a candy bar- it felt really good at the time but was full of empty calories. This episode, and this TV show, has no underlying meaning. People will not be talking about it in 50 years.

You concluded that after just 9 episodes Gary? Were you sure they would be talking about TNG 50 years later after 9 episodes? Or DS9? Or even Voyager?

Guys I hate to constantly say the obvious but TV show changes. Thats the difference between shows and films, they have time to just get better, morph into other things, do things differently etc. Does anyone here thinks when DS9 premiered that we would get the show we got a few years later? I doubt it because not even the writers knew at the time. YES DS9 actually was going for bigger ideas from day one, I grant you that, but it did not become the deeply enriching show until the Dominion showed up and they fleshed out that arc season by season. Yes the seeds of a great show was there on day one, but it was never a guarantee it would turn into one until much later on.

Even with ALL my issues with Discovery and yes I have them too obviously which I have stated multiple times I think it does have the seeds to become a great show, we simply haven’t seen it to its full potential yet. But again, its Star Trek, you can literally say that about all the shows in its first season minus TOS.

I just think its unfair it doesn’t have an underlining meaning and we are just halfway through season one.

He’s GarySeven… he’s already seen the future. He knows…… >_>

Some Trekkies really have an issue with thinking their very limited worldview is the “correct” one. Just Stamets and his hubby’s arc and how that was handled was comparable to Uhura’s impact to me. Just that will be remembered IMO and have overreaching impact.

And I haven’t even touched the brilliant sensitivity with which Ash’s PTSD and rape were handled.

@Gingerly. I loved how Burnham reacted to Ash when he told her what happened. Plus his scenes with Cornwell came across as believable. All in all the people involved with the PTSD and the sexual assault aspect of the story did do a wonderful job.

The chemistry and handling of the relationship between Stamets and Culbert has been good, and of course is historic in the context of Trek. But that doesn’t make this a great episode any more than the Kirk/Uhura kiss makes “Plato’s Stepchildren” a great episode.

I haveno expectation of changing the other poster’s minds, through rational discourse, because that is a very rare occurrence here. But for anyone else reading this, I will explain why I said what I said a bit more. But I’ve learned not to waste time in pointless debates that usually devolve into personal attack ((case in point, I am being caricatured as someone who claims to see the future.” I was making a prediction, but the “straw man argument” of distorting what Someone meant into something absurd, only to then discredit it, is frequently compelling, although false.).
Anyway, besides TOS, TNG’s pilot, while not great TV, was about judging all of humanity for its behavior. I think that shows some meaning. DS9’s pilot was about the nature of time and experience. Voyager’s pilot was all about sacrificing everything for another’s species. These are morality plays, as Roddenberry wanted Star Trek to be about.
Do I know Discovery will never become deeply meaningful? Of course it could. But my opinion is based on the episodes shown already- the data. I can’t disprove that it MAY become meaningful. In fact, I hope it does! I’m saying that I am facing arguments about something that could happen, despite the data that currently exists that indicate this has not happened, and it is an ordinary show about action and war, not about morality plays. Because it has been so typical if so many other shows this way, I predicted it will not stand out as a show that people will focus on in the future. And the kiss between the gay couple was wonderful, but the Orville handled the same thing a few days before and many other shows before that. Trek is finally catching up. That’s a great thing, but hardly groundbreaking like TV’s first interracial kiss onTOS.

Given that it’s a season long arc, I think its a little too early to make any pronouncements on what the show’s underlying meaning might be.

Other than TOS, every Trek show (yes, even TNG) has faded out of the general public consciousness. Yes, the devoted Trek fans who frequent sites like this continue to enjoy them, but the average TV watcher moved on long ago.

As for Discovery (or any show for that matter), I just try to watch it on its own merits and not get bogged down on comparisons, or if it is “better” or “worse” than anything else.

“Empty Calories” is just another word for “a competent hour of television.” Which is what this episode certainly was, and what Discovery as a whole is turning out to be, as the “average” episodes become the norm and the mean becomes, well, average. Not exactly what I was hoping for.

Michael, I have followed you and your brother since the AOL days. Thus, I know to take you seriously. But I still disagree, respectfully. I think this a new form of Trek that only DS9 has attempted, and I loved DS9, and still do. I have great hopes for DSC because of what I have seen of it.

Thanks for the compliment, but who do you think my brother is? Just FYI he’s not much into Trek at all, so I’m not sure who you’re referring to. 😊

I have been under the impression that your brother was someone else who had your surname. Perhaps I am mistaken. I apologize if so.

I will not speak of this further.

There is a recurring theme that I’ve noticed resurfacing throughout the show: Fear.
It first struck me with the concept of Saru. Then there is Tilly representing anxieties. There is PTSD being represented by Ash. There is a captain possibly motivated by the fear of losing his ship. Loss of or fear for the safety of someone dear is represented by Dr. Culber and the death of Captain Georgiou. On the other hand, there is recklessness (i.e. a lack of fear) represented by Lorca. There is also Pahvo endangering itself due to a lack of fear. Fear being conquered by scientific curiosity is being represented by Stamets. And in the main character Burnham, fear is always conquered by logic.

One could say that fear is pretty much a topic of our times. So is the moral ambiguity and sometimes imperfect nature of actions on the show: One could call it out as bad writing that no seems to further care about the fate of Pahvo in the face of Klingon reinforcements, or why Lorca did not anticipate potential PTSD when sending Tyler to the ship of the dead. Or one could call it a depiction of reality where decision-making can be contextual and opportunistic, and where it makes sense that Lorca would turn a blind eye to PTSD issues because because he’s got the same problem.
But I guess that’s also a reason for the criticism: Not wanting a mirror of reality, but rather something that provides relief from and inspiration for overcoming the shortcomings of reality. I think the topic of fear is very relevant, but I hope that in terms of meaning, the show will further develop a positive message about dealing with fear. I cannot quite grasp yet what kind of beast this show is, I think it still has to develop a more distinctive nature.

Saru made me think that the emotional concept of alien characters in different Trek series might be relevant to society at the time:
In the 60s there is Spock, basically an emotionally repressed alien. It reminds me of the conflict between the more emotionally repressed older generations and the emotional liberation of younger generations culminating in the flower-power era.
In TNG, Picard’s diplomacy represents a counter concept to an era of cold-war warmongering, and empathy is embodied in Betazoid Troi.
Now there is fear represented by Saru.

If you have ideas how this could apply to DS9 & Voyager, I’d like to read about them.

…Back to Discovery: the entire storyline depends on the fact that Klingons have cloaking technology but no CCTV not even in cells on a dedicated prison ship…Can somebody please explain that away?

2 Things about the Ash/Voq Voq/Ash thing, and both stem from the PTSD flashbacks.

ASH = VOQ – If this holds true, we’re not seeing the torture the way we’re supposed to be seeing it. We’re seeing every shred of Klingon being flushed away from Voq as he underwent a very painful and torturous process to becoming “Human.” Simple brain rewiring, ala BSG (the Cylons who don’t know they’re Cylons) and you have some of the best yet most twisted spy network the galaxy has ever known (House Mokai).

VOQ = ASH – If THIS holds true, we ARE seeing the torture the way we’re supposed to be seeing it. We can take Ash at his word when he recounted the events of his captivity to Burnham, and we’re going to hate L’rell more for doing what she did than some of us already do.

While I don’t think Voq=Ash is going to happen, but the more evidence I see for Ash=Voq, the easier it is to line up Voq=Ash theories.

BTW: Where are we? MU (most probable) or did we end up in the Kelvin Universe in the graveyard of the Battle of Vulcan?

Wolf 359? Which would be neat, considering Frakes directed the next episode…

Juicy thought

I will be so happy when we find out, or at least have further tidbits, in 2018. This series is amazing.

No spoilers. It was GREAT!!

Voq = Ash. No question about it. When Ash confronts L’Rell in the brig, he said, “What did you do to me?” L’Rell’s response, “Do not worry. I will never let them hurt you”. Ash looks at her with a very helpless stare and she says, “soon”. That last statement from L’rell confirms it, I believe. She now has the parts in place to go forward with the plan. Voq has the Captain’s confidence and is in a position of leadership on Discovery. L’Rell is on board to initiate the plan. Yes, Ash has PTSD. But I think the flashbacks are Voq going through the transformation, not Ash being tortured.

I think Ash is Ash. Voq could not learn enough in that time span to become Ash. The torture was some kind of meld placing Voq in that body. So the torture was of Ash, to add Voq to him.

L’Rell specifically told Voq that he had to give up “everything” he knew in order to fight back. I’m guessing that Voq is inside Ash’s mind waiting to be triggered.

This would be a plausible explanation. I am very sorry for the Ash character. The actor is excellent at conveying what the hell happened to him, without revealing the explicit truth. I condemn any real-world people who would engage or have engaged in sexual assault, and this fictional episode shows why. Sexual assault is a very serious matter. One does not need to be raped to understand what consequences occur to those who were.

Ash conveyed what happened to him well — whether it was rape, or surgical procedures … neither that he could have fully anticipated, at all.

I think DSC has earned its keep.

Fascinating either way. Just the mystery of it will keep me watching.

Great episode.
One thing I took away, is starfleet doesn’t have the decloaking algorithm yet. Lorca said it would take 11 hours before they were ready to transmit it.
I’m assuming that line was in there so they can later day they hadn’t been able to transmit it yet, adding further urgency to get home.

Yes!

I noticed this gem.

Starfleet has only the fundamentals of the algorithm, not the refinement. At least possibly.

This fits in with the continuing issues the Federation has with cloaking technologies.

So much to think about in terms of canonicity.

What a wonderful episode!

Starfleet cracked this early version of the cloak, I think the next versions is from the Romulans?

Am I the only one calling this “Into The Woods We Go Again”? :-)

I very much love the show and enjoy it a lot. The only thing that really made me “angry” was the Vulcan admiral. I think he was clearly emotional which I didn’t like at all. Otherwise it’s great and I look forward to Ep. 10.

“Into DeForest I Go”

Ohhh my!

Oops, started reading comments [thinking they’d be pre-broadcast comments of speculation about Ep 9] and realized there be SPOILERS thar

TM, do you think maybe in the Spring you could start a POST-EP DISCUSSION PAGE for those of us who want to post right after the episode to discuss?

I want to stay un-SPOILED until I see the episode later this week, but I know people are eager to talk about what they just saw =^)

Can’t wait to hear your review.
I hope that you LOVE it!

Here is a fun fact Stargate SG1 had boobies in its first season when it was a Showtime production before it got picked up by other networks and those scenes were edited.

Discovery seems to be following in their footsteps.

Yeah, the SG1 premiere was an aberration and looking back, that one scene is just odd and out of place. They had full frontal nudity in the pilot episode, and then followed that R rated material with 212 episodes that never repeated that level of content again (so glad for the network switch). I am very grateful for that, as this quickly became a family friendly show after that.

“I am very grateful for that, as this quickly became a family friendly show after that.”

Interesting. The show is rated 16+ for most season (as is Atlantis and of course Universe)… they had to cut some episode to broadcast them at 8 pm. Compared to the shows that are nowadays rated 16+ (GoT, American Gods, The Strain), the SG universe was utterly tame. But no, they did NOT cut the boobies in the pilot because it’s not an issue for 12+ content in Germany.

I don’t remember the ratings, just the content. Violence doesn’t bother us as much because it’s all fake, whereas nudity is real. I don’t remember anything as offensive as that first episode nudity after that episode. I actually saw all the episodes on DVD, so can’t speak to any editing. Either way, as you point out, this show is VERY tame compared to shows nowadays! Even the violence is relatively bloodless.

Nudity is offensive? Lol

well it coooould be ;-)

To some people, it is. Personally, I would so much like to be fine with artistic nudity. But the internet has taken it way too far. It’s so hard to draw a line nowadays. Klingon boobs on Star Trek, gloryhole jokes on Orville… I can’t help but feel uneasy to some degree.
History was made today. Part of me wants to appreciate it. My 16-year-old self would have celebrated back in the 90s. 20 years later, as I look back on two decades of online smutt, it’s an entirely different feeling, sort of a mixed bag… I didn’t hate it, but I also cannot fully appreciate it…

“Violence doesn’t bother us as much because it’s all fake, whereas nudity is real.”

Yeah, I get your point. Unlike most Germans, I even agree to some point, having said the same some months ago.
But then again, violence is much worse than simple nudity, real or not. Kissing on screen is also real, but we wouldn’t bother. In other countries, kissing public is considered a crime.

My only issue with nudity is that in our day and age, the internet has blurred the lines between simple nudity and more explicit sexual content, which is also real but far worse and it’s really hard to draw a line…and that’s what makes it hard for me to appreciate simple nudity.

This is why I really would like to know whether we have actually seen Mary Chiefo in the nude, or whether this was all prosthetics or CGI.

“Either way, as you point out, this show is VERY tame compared to shows nowadays! Even the violence is relatively bloodless.”

I agree. I guess, even in Germany SG-1 and SGA would be rated 12+ these days. The rating policy has slightly become more relaxed. Movies that used to be banned only years ago are now 16+ as well. And unlike in the UK, even The Shannara Chronicles got a 12+. Part of me still hopes that DISCO and Stranger Things will get a 12+ when they hit the shelves on DVD, but I doubt it. Too many “five seconds of shame” :-) I guess I’ll have to live with a 16+ Star Trek show, which is unfortunate, as I love feeling 14 again while watching Star Trek…

Q: Have we passed the point where we think that Discovery is a section 31 ship? Or that Lorca is an agent? His two superior Admirals he has defied and it looks as if he thinks there could be ramifications for that. If there was Section 31 backing him, then he would not fear breaking the orders he has, and him going rogue now would also make no sense.

I think the breadcrumbs to Section 31 were there to throw us off.

I also think the show is not about Burnham anymore, it is revolving around
Lorca…. except for that Lorca is not a hero in this story as past captains… Issacs should not be on stage with the other 5 captains at conventions… he should be with Marc Alaimo and Salome Jens and Alice Krige.

Burnham will end being the hero of the story, and it will be interesting if it cost her her life or if it restores her to regular service. Unless it is the latter, I am not sure how we see Burnham in season two.

You could argue Staments is the central figure as well.

I disagree about Lorca. He may not be the same Captain that the other ones are but he still deserves a seat at the table with Kirk and Co. In fact he reminds me a lot of Sisko during the episode “In the Pale Moonlight.” Only he is like that all the time. I also think that his moral ambiguity makes him the perfect Captain to defeat the Klignons. After all the Klignons aren’t exactly known for playing by the Federation rule book. So Lorca’s willingness to bend those rules might just be what the Federation needs to win.

Just finished the halfway mark finale. This story was so weak because there was no weight behind the emotions. The “hey-look how serious we are!’ drama felt terribly forced and at the end of the day, I care so little for those characters affected, it had 0 impact on me. Klingon war? Who cares? A major event to turn the tide in the great Klingon war that is clearly fought elsewhere, but…who cares? Do these writers even have any real vision or direction for this show? I’m beginning to think Fuller’s ideas were completely scrapped and this cobbled up mess is the result of 10 writers trying to pick up the pieces and figure out what in the hell to do with all those beautiful sets. So we have yet another nicely wrapped, pretty package, chock full o’ mediocrity. The captain remains the most interesting character on board…damn shame we don’t have him leading a landing party, each week, down to some strange new world. Balance of Terror good?? You’ve gotta be kidding me.

Growing up with Star Trek the whole Balance of Terror comparison was silly because that episode, while good, did nothing for me.

This episode had me and my girlfriend on the edge of our seats the entire time and she started getting emotional with Stamets and the Dr.

This episode was far better than Balance of Terror in my mind. Much more moving pieces and suspense.

For me, its my favorite trek.

8 episodes and it’s your favorite? You and you’re gf were on the edge of your seats? Either you guys don’t get to see a lot of movies or you work for CBS lol. But seriously, glad you enjoyed it…me, I’m just glad Mission Impossible and the original Twilight Zone are both on CBS so I don’t feel totally cheated.

Jonboc I wouldn’t call DSC my favorite at all but last nights epidsode, if you got into it, was pretty exciting. The fight seen was good. The David Goliath thing was exciting. It wasn’t a movie as you suggested just a 45 minute television show

…the fight was decent, but the Klingon was a bit sluggish in the choreography and I think less long coverage of both actors and quicker edits, with moving hand held cameras up close could’ve tightened it up and made it a lot more exciting. And was really pretty silly, under those circumstances, that their phasers were always set on stun. I did, however, think it was some of the best direction on the show to date…just not finding anything particularly interesting yet with teeth to really pull me into the story.

Agreed. They got themselves an excellent director this week, and unless he ran considerably over budget or harassed a tardigrade on-set I’d be very surprised if they didn’t bring him back. But he was still working with a passable script, and therefore gave us a passable episode. In my books, that’s what’s called a waste.

Well its their opinion Jonboc. Some people can really just enjoy the show.

You must have a lot of free time on your hands to take the time to watch it and say so much about something you couldn’t care less about. Where do you work? I must look for a job there!

In fairness to the post, I know where you’re coming from. i’m going to blame the feeling on the fact that 9 episodes (short ones at that. That’s a problem in itself) isn’t enough time for an ensemble to get their feet under them and an directing team to understand the characters well enough. It sounds like the same old excuse, but TNG took most of the first season (over 20 episodes) to start getting there. Times are different though. It may help to have more dialogue during the episodes to get the know the folks better.

Most of the episodes clocked in at 45 minutes+, no? That’s more content than an hour show on a network.

yes but hour long shows that stream tend to be closer to an hour or even go over. I’m just saying DSC could benefit from a little puff

Episodes have ranged from 40min to 50min. That’s not that odd. Most stranger things episodes are between 45-50 min. A couple in the 55min range. i wouldn’t exactly call Discovery episodes “short” but because they air on TV in Canada they may want to be slightly less than the average streaming run time of 48-55min.

EXcept it wasn’t weak. It was a thoroughly enjoyable, strong first half, filled with engaging characters and intriguing stories.

The people that want to hate it will always hate it no matter what.

I’m not a hater. In fact, I want to love it. But at this point I must confess to being quite disappointed. The show has lost momentum for me since “Lethe,” and shows no signs of recovering it.

I think “Lethe” was the first really great apisode, but the three that came after were even better…

Well, I agree that “Lethe” was the first really great episode. Unfortunately, that was three episodes ago, and the show has been virtually rudderless since then.

‘Lethe’ has been the only properly Trekkien episode in this whole sorry mess, and the reasons it was that were it incorporated interesting characters created decades earlier and it was written by an old writer from TNG.

Well, I thought the Lorca/Cornwall subplot worked very well too. In fact, I’m even more impressed with how that episode very cleverly redefined a major aspect of the Trek universe while also moving the war narrative forward, something no other DSC episode has managed to do even half so well.

Wouldn’t be paying for it if I hated it. It’s simply not very good. Hanging around for the mirror universe…hoping for some semblance of Trek to shine through. We’ll see.

I fall into the same camp, I’m afraid. I ‘like’ it, that’s pretty much it. Yes, enough to pay a $1.85 an episode for it, but not enough to get very excited about it. And I really wish the show was ‘must-see’ tv for me. Maybe it will get there, given time. It’s mainly the time period it’s set in which keeps taking me out of the moment, I think. Good sci-fi, but not fitting into the Trek universe for me just yet (although the “Cadet Decker, please report to…” over the PA was a nice touch last night).

But I thought “Into the Forest” to be a very good episode. Giving it a re-watch this evening.

“It’s mainly the time period it’s set in which keeps taking me out of the moment, I think.”

Yeah same. I love Star Trek so I’m giving it a wide berth an for the most part enjoying it but I really wish they put this in a different era. It feels a bit too distracting for me.

I didn’t love Enterprise either because of where it was placed but it really felt like it belonged in its era. I just didn’t really care about the era. Here, it just feels too out of place IMO. But I’m sure I will get over it time.

I don’t hate it at all. The show itself is great. 99% of it works fine with me. Lots of my Trekkie friends hate it because of the plots, characters, designs etc. but I defend it passionately. My only issue… nope, not gonna say it again… it’s those MA moments, those 16+ five seconds of shame that offend the child in me, that sully the memory of my late father as Trek was the only show we regularly watched together…It’s still hard to get used to.

You’ll somehow get through it Smike. I’m glad you are enjoying it though. Me too even if I still have issues with it.

Oh my god! Smike… get over it with the MA rating aleady! If fake klingon prosthetic boobs offend you, you really need to grow up and be an adult. Are you not offended more by Orville’s constant dick jokes?

Hey Jon… the Orville articles are calling you. They need their cheerleader back.

He’s no cheerleader of The Orville, not being a fan of TNG.

Yes, it was a sorry excuse for an episode. Dull and pedestrian. Lacking in any proper spirit or genuine emotional insight. It just drifted from one meandering point to the next. Lots of space battles, ‘kewl dude’ sword fights and scary rubber faced monsters like something from a bad 50s B movie though. I guess this is what passes for Star Trek now.

Great episode, chock full of Star Trek spirit! Can’t wait for the continuation!

Predictions:
– Lorca is from another parallel universe, (not necessarily the Mirror Universe), and was switched sometime while commanding the Buran. His ulterior motive is getting home and he has been mapping out the possibility of doing that using the spore drive.

– The Discovery all along was not in the prime universe, and did not exist there. It now has, or will eventually jump into the prime universe, with more familiar TOS uniforms, ships, and D7’s that look like D7’s. Also, Burnham was not adopted by Sarek here, so Spock has no knowledge of her.

I’m impressed with your second paragraph of predictions, there. Would like to see that happen…

Wow, still clinging to this desperate hope that the show is not in the prime universe? You sound like the birthers who were clinging to the hope that Obama would be outed as a Kenyan and removed from office, or the liberals who are clinging to the hope that Trump will be impeached.

It’s the prime timeline. Accept the visual changes. There’s already a canon novel, by David Mack, that talks about the differences in uniforms.

Yes I do think this is the prime universe but I can understand people who have issues with all the changes would want it in another one like the KT films. It would settle all the issues some fans have.

But I believe them when they say its in the prime universe.

“Still clinging?” This is my second ever post here! Your visceral reaction is amusing, but for the record, I am enjoying the show immensely and have few if any complaints. If you find my one other post, it makes the case for “accept the visual changes.”

It would make sense, and especially concerning the discussion about all the other alternative dimensions. I have always thought of the Mirror Mirror dimension as having a special connection, just on the other side of us. It is different than all the other timelines/dimensions as shown in “TNG/Parallels”, of which the Kelvin Universe is one of those. Each of those timelines has a Mirror/Inverse dimension that it has a special relationship with as well.

So what if Lorca is from the Prime Universe, and everything else with Discovery is the parallel timeline.

Think about this – what if Lorca’s eyesight is unique and able to see pathways in the way that Stamets can?

So Lorca said that they were going home, just to his home, not theirs.

An early photoshoot for Star Trek Discovery showed the actor playing Lorca sitting goofily in the captains chair. Behind him the dedication plaque said ISS Discovery.

I believe Lorca is from the Mirror, trying to get home, however, at the end of the episode he has no idea where he is because his world has changed while he’s been gone.

Maybe he chooses to remain in the prime

Switched for what purpose?

Good points, I will say that the Discovery and her crew all along is coming from the Mirror Universe coming into the Prime Universe.

Wow I would be surprised if that second theory is true. It would be a great twist though and make everyone SOOOOO happy if we found out they actually was from a different universe the whole time. And man that would fix basically all the canon issues lol.

And it would mean they were from a fourth universe (Prime, Kelvin, Mirror and Discovery). But the producers have maintained over and over again they are in the prime universe but then again producers lie all the freakin time. ;)

I don’t think its a possibility though :/ ISS Discovery has already been confirmed and the synopsis of the next episode is them trying to get home to their Universe.

I think its just in the regular Mirror universe

Yeah I agree. I think it would be a cool twist but I also feel they were in the Prime universe the whole time.

I’m going to give it another watch, but overall I was pretty impressed with the episode – Finally some compelling space/battle/ship shots, good tension throughout, just enough action and a cool mystery to mull over for the next couple of months.

Since the showrunners felt the need to say this was “Balance of Terror” good, I watched Balance of Terror again this weekend prior to this mid-season finale. While I don’t agree it was “Balance of Terror” good (perhaps my favorite TOS episode), “Into the Forest I Go” was no slouch.

Cancelled CBSAA this morning, but still have access until the end of the month and will be checking out this episode again.

I keep wondering how much we are “supposed” to know at this point versus how much we already know. I mean, the “Ash = Voq” theory was cropping up almost immediately after “Choose Your Pain”, and what makes this theory really convincing to me is not so much the sparse to nonexistent evidence within the show itself (before “Into the Forest” I mean), but rather the real world evidence, like e.g. the actor’s IMDB page. So, when L’Rell is speaking to Ash at the end of “Into the Forest”, was the intended audience reaction really “Ha, that almost confirms it!” or rather “What the heck is she talking about?”?

Also, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if within the next few days, someone will have sifted through the torture flashbacks frame by frame, in order to see if you can glimpse Voq somewhere.

Speaking about things we may or may not be supposed to know yet: Look up who the director of the next episode is (or better don’t, if you want any kind of spoilerish things!) – if you remember something that person said in an interview, it’s easy to form a theory about what direction said episode will be taking…

The fact the producers/writers have stayed completely mum on all of it tells me they wanted the former and not suppose to know anything. They clearly have to give out some clues so it doesn’t come up as a complete surprise but yes I don’t think they really wanted people to figure it out until the mid finale. I haven’t seen the latest After Trek show yet but I’m curious how much they talked about it if at all.

I tend to disagree. I think they knew people would figure it out. If they really didnt want anyne figuring it out, the easy answer is to use a different actor. That simple. I think they decided to be cute but they HAD to know people would figure it out. Maybe not immediately…lol but they would.

Also, I wonder if the “Ash = Voq” theory may even have played a role in the “last minute” decision to show “Into the Forest” before the winter break, instead of after that. Perhaps they didn’t expect this fan theory to spread like wildfire the way it did, and so decided to let the cat out of the sack prematurely (more or less, via the last scene with Ash and L’Rell), so that poor Shazad Latif doesn’t have to awkwardly deflect even more uncomfortable questions about Voq’s actor… :-D

I think it is more likely, that they decided that this was a better end of Chapter One. or even more likely they determined that people would hold onto their AA subscriptions for one more month for the first half if they made it 9 episodes – and maybe fewer would drop because it is just 6 weeks from the end of November when subs would be up to the start of Chapter Two.

Watching both episodes, both end on a cliffhanger of sorts, but Into the Forrest was way better because it resolved much of the first half of the season and set us on a new story, seemingly. Much better ending.

Did anyone else catch the call for luitenant Decker over the ships itercom in the background near the end while Burnham was walking through the corridor?

You thinking Will Decker?

Cant be. We already saw mention of Matthew Decker as a decorated Captain and his son would be far too young to be a Lt. Could be a relative but not one we’ve seen

Yes!

This post occurs after the 9th episode.
SPOILERS BELOW:

As promised, the ninth chapter to ST Discovery pulled no punches this time with it’s epic space battles, and edge of the seat action when Captain Lorca defies a direct order, and refuses to leave the Pavo to be slaughtered by the Klingon’s. The very sarcophagus ship that de-cloaked at ‘The battle of the binary stars’ shows up to answer the signal sent by the Pavo’s in the previous episode.
Outside of the fact that Stammets has to endure the struggles of using his tardigrade enhanced abilities to jump a record 133 times to structure the data needed to create an algorithm that will essentially make the Klingon’s cloak obsolete, the episode raps up nicely w/ the destruction of the sarcophagus ship, the rescue of admiral Cornwell, and the imprisonment of Commander L’rell. Just when you think Stammets last jump is going to bring them back to the heart of the federation, something goes terribly wrong with one of the crewman remarking, “The jump was incomplete.” Discovery finds itself in uncharted space with no recognizable stars to triangulate their position.
The problem seems to be with Stammets who falls to the deck mid-jump, and whose eyes take on an eerie ‘Gary Mitchell’look, and is babbling about something like a bad acid trip or something.
The episode leaves us wondering where Discovery ended up, and what is going on with Lt Ash Tyler and L’Rell who is tucked away nicely in Discovery’s brig. We know she violated him in more ways than one, but there is something more devious at play when L’Rell tells Ash, “Soon…” Meaning soon you will discover what I’ve done to you…
And what about Captain Gabriel Lorca? Why did the writers and producers go out of their way to tell us that Captain Lorca was a stand up guy- literally? We were told he was a Captain who worked in his ready room standing (Something we haven’t seen since the 3rd or 4th episode, and that he “rarely” if “ever” would be seen in the Captain’s chair, yet ever since episode 5 or 6 he’s been in the chair. It looks to me that Captain Lorca is not the same in some way. Somethings changed him, and I suspect before this season is over, it will all be revealed, and Michael Burnham will be the first officer she was reported to be in the synopsis.

….and what is up with everyone using phasers that are set on stun? You’re in a war, sneaking around an enemy ship that you’re intending to blow to smithereens once you crack the cloaking coordinates, but you keep you phasers on stun? Really? A setting, that apparently, does little to slow them down. Maybe Burnham is a bleeding heart, but the Admiral? Fighting for their lives? Sheesh, vaporize those lizards already.

Wah wah wah…

Hey, you can approve of stupid, boneheaded behavior by Starfleet crew members if you want….no prob, IDIC and all….

Yawn

In TOS ep. Turnabout Intruder, there was a device that can switch peoples bodies around. Like that failed captain chick did with Kirk, so people switching bodies is not unheard of in early Star Trek.

Not only that, but the very premise of Star Trek III is McCoy is walking around with Spock’s katra renting out space in his brain.

So, yes, the idea of one brain hosting two minds is as old as Star Trek itself.

I didn’t think Lorca was anything but Lorca but now there is an image from episode floating around that showed the final jump was an “override by Lorca” with unknown coordinates.

Hmmm

I think Lorca knew he was gonna be asked to step down and get head checked out by Admiral Cornwall and wanted to use the last jump to go somewhere unknown and explore.

Agreed.

That was my initial thought too. Because when Saru mentioned Admiral Cornwell was beamed aboard, he had a very subtle expression. And when the Vulcan admiral said she’d make a full recovery, same thing. Plus, the idea he was going to be rewarded might suggest he’d have leverage to keep his command but it almost implies a ramping down of war effort.

If he feared losing his command, reporting to Starbase 46 for an award ceremony and “celebration” would seem to be the perfect time to pull him aside.

But then we have that scene of him showing Stamets the multiple universe possibilities. That scene is there for a reason. Either to foreshadow an accidental trip to Mirror or to foreshadow Lorca’s grander plan. It would seem to imply to me, that he was playing to Stamet’s curiosity as an explorer to keep doing jumps.

Once Stamets said he could only do one more, Lorca had to act. But was it a generic “lets go anywhere” or a “I need to go to where I want to go” ie. Mirror or somewhere else.

If its Mirror because Lorca is from there, it makes sense. If its just a shot in the dark, it doesnt keep to Lorca’s desire to fight the war. He pushed Cornwell out because he felt he was the one to win the war. Running now wouldnt make sense to me.

Here’s the link to that very story, and photo

Curious: Anyone if you can, is this war the four years war?

Not sure, always been conflict with Klingons until The Undiscovered Country

As I recall (from memory) TOS referenced “open conflict” but we werent led to believe it was a full scale war. And then the Organians forced peace but at some point quietly backed out.

We saw in Trek III that there were clearly still issues but were they wide-spread or more of a rogue element? In Trek IV, there was enough of a diplmatic relationship that there was a Klingon Ambassador who addressed the Federation and declared there would be no peace until Kirk was turned over to them. So that could have represented a ramping up of hostilities.

In V, which was a weird entry, we had Klingon, Romulan and Federation reps meeting for peace talks but I think the insinuation was that they were three less than respected reps who were sent off for appearances only.

And ofcourse TUC where we get a deeper look at the issues.

I’d suspect the war in Discovery ends with more of a cease fire, sort of like the Korean War where hosilities are expected, mostly a Cold war with occasional flare ups.

Prediction: Only Michael makes it to season two. We will see the prime 60 s looking universe but it will not be where we stay. The actor playing Serak will be a Romulan and the purpose of the show will be in part to bring cohesion and acceptance that all universes are pertinent.

Uh…no.