Wiseman Talks Fallout From Latest Star Trek: Discovery’ Reveal + New Images From This Weekend’s Episode

| January 25, 2018 | By: TrekMovie.com Staff 106 comments so far

Today’s Star Trek: Discovery update has more people talking about this weekend’s episode, along with some new photos from “What’s Past is Prologue.”

Wiseman: Lorca’s reveal changes things for Discovery

Mary Wiseman (Cadet Tilly) spoke to TV Guide about the big reveal that Lorca is from the Mirror Universe, and what it means for the show going forward. Talking specifically about the repercussions, the actress said:

Now that we have had the big reveal, the way that will change things for Discovery is that all of our allegiances will be called into question. Who is driving the car? If Lorca is the bad guy and we are stuck here in this Mirror Universe, who do we look to to make the choices that we need to make in order to get out of here. We still have a war going on, you know? Who rises to the occasion and takes control will be really interesting.

Watch the full interview below.

More images from “What’s Past is Prologue”

On Tuesday we revealed 8 photos from this weekend’s episode of Discovery. Today Syfy has 3 more exclusive images (click the thumbnails below to see them).

“What’s Past is Prologue” challenges Saru and features more of the Disco crew

This weekend’s episode “What’s Past is Prologue” was written by co-executive producer Ted Sullivan, who may be the most prolific member of the staff when it comes to promoting Discovery on social media. His latest tweets show us some behind the scenes shots and drops some hints on what we can expect.

Don’t trust Jason

Actor Jason Isaacs is having some fun now that Lorca has been revealed to be Mirror Lorca. He will be a guest on this weekend’s After Trek and fans have been asked to send in their questions, but the actor is pointing out we can’t really trust him to answer truthfully.

Preview

If you didn’t catch it already, here is the preview trailer for “What’s Past is Prologue.”

 

Episode 13 of Star Trek: Discovery will be available on CBS All Access on Sunday, January 28th by 8:30 pm ET. It will air in Canada on the Space Channel at 8:00 pm ET the same day and be available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada on Monday, January 29th at 8 am GMT.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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Why does he say ‘Welcome home Michael’

Prediction: Burnham will take command of Discovery, get them home and end the war. She’ll be redeemed, hailed a hero, reinstated in Starfleet and given command of Discovery for season two.

Seems likely but I hope not. The rapid advancement was stupid in 2009 (even worse when they tried to pretend it was always part of the plan to demote him in the sequel). Dont want to see that again.

Although at least with Michael she WAS a Commander.

Not only was she a commander, she was about to be made Captain in the premiere.

And there’s some precedent in Trek: in Voyage home Kirk was charged with conspiracy, assault on Federation officers, theft of a starship, sabotage of the Exelsior, willfully destruction of a starship, and disobeying the direct orders of the Starfleet Commander.

Rather than bein court martialed and sentenced to prison time, his actions in saving Earth were deemed worthy of the punishment/reward of the Captain’s chair of the Enterprise A.

I suspect we’ll see a similar scene at the end of Season 1 to the end of TVH where an Admiral gives her command as some kind of wink wink “punishment.”

Not quite an apples to apples comparison. Kirks actions involved a small number of people, and the destroyed starship was on the verge of being mothballed anyway. Burnam actions, rightly or wrongly, were very questionable, and plunged the Federation into a war that has left millions dead and untold damage. Not to mention she apparently was collaborating with a Klingon spy. Everything she’ll do if given a command will be second guessed.

A more realistic ending to Trek IV would have been that Kirk would have been allowed to ‘retire’ as captain…but this is scifi, and we need a happy ending.

I didn’t say it was as an apples to apples comparison. Just that there is precedent for overlooking serious charges against a high ranking officer because their subsequent actions saved millions of lives and proved their character worthy of forgiveness.

As for Kirk let’s not forget he still disobeyed orders, assaulted fellow officers, stole Enterprise, sabotaged Excelsior, and engaged in a personal mission that resulted in a battle with the Klingons.

None of these are minor infractions, but there are many mitigating circumstances, just as there were, are, and will be with Burnham.

I would point out that Sarek carried a good deal of weight on the Federation Council and, presumably, with the Office of the President in Trek IV. We don’t know if he has that same clout 20 years prior.

I would have to argue that he did carry that weight. Was Federation Ambassador when he met and married Amanda. He carried a great deal of weight on Vulcan and was considered important enough to merit an assassin!

I don’t get how her actions got them into a war though? Sure if you’re talking about her killing the torch bearer you can kind of argue that but no one is blaming her for that, especially since she was only defending herself.

The entire ‘Burnharm started the war’ thing still feels murky to me. It seems like the Federation blames her but the Klingons clearly wanted a war. But I guess its also why I don’t like this entire story line very much, so much of it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

strangely I agree with all of you. All very good points, even the fact that Burnham started the war. The whole premise of the show was that it would be seen from the lower decks. Making Burnham captain would go away from that. And personality wise, she wouldn’t be (as of now) a very strong captain. She isn’t anywhere near the command presence that Janeaway had. Actually Saru isn’t either. Maybe all that would change in season 2. My hope is that Lorca somehow stays in the chair assuming he went to “star fleet” in the MU. With all the telegraphing they have done this season they have us all confused on how it all plays out. Bravo for that

THANK you !!!!!people keep saying that” She Caused the war”I was starting to think I have been a different show than everyone else😀

Yes its just so weird. She didn’t plunge them into any war. The Klingons were literally there to start a war. If you completely remove Burnham from the scene, there still would’ve been a war. T’Kumva made it clear that’s what he was there to do and had to do in order to reunite the houses. Maybe I get how Starfleet may not necessarily know that but from our POV she never started anything. The whole thing is just bizarre.

She did not plunge them into war.The Klingons were wanting to attack .They were trying to unify the houses against the federation.The federation played into their hands.T’kuvma knew Starfleet would send ships so when his people show up he says they want to destroy us see here they come.we must fight!

Yeah, it’s not apples to apples at all. Kirks actions were far worse. Regardless of a ship on the verge of being mothballed, you can’t exactly destroy a starship without repercussion. You can’t steal one either. I mean, if I steal a Navy Destroyer that’s going to be decommissioned sometime in the future, but still has all its abilities, take it out and tangle with some Russians, scuttle the ship tot he bottom of the ocean, then show up in San Francisco in a commandeered Russian military vessel, that’s a BIG deal. And if the only reason why I did it is to save my friend, that’s a HUGE deal.

Burnham on the other hand, disobeyed a direct order, incapacitated her captain, and tried to take over the ship. Those are very serious actions. But those are the SAME actions that Kirk and Company did. They asked permission, were refused, went against orders and did it anyway. Where Burnham tried to take over the ship in a 2-3 minute span, Kirk actually succeeded and drove that sucker into deep space. The most serious charge, actually incapacitating the captain, lasted for about three minutes. I bet that poor guy that Uhura locked in the closet was in there for a longer time. Did anyone EVER get him out? *LOL* And lets remember, Burnham’s actions were not done for personal reasons, like Kirk. They were done specifically to prevent war and they had a logical, xenoanthropological,and historical basis behind them.

Burnham gets a bad rap for plunging the Federation into war. Exactly how did she do that? She killed T’Kuvma. It’s debatable on whether or not that did it, because T’Kuvma was planning to war against the Federation regardless, and already had the support of the Klingons to do so. Burnham’s killing of T’Kuvma only killed a plan that could stop the inevitable war. A plan I think Burnham came up with herself, I cant remember if that was her plan or Georgiou’s. But shooting a Klingon that just injured (we know now it was killed) your captain can’t be really all that much of an issue, if they’re trying to kill you.

I love this argument that Kirk advanced from bottom rank to Captain. That’s an idiotic notion that ignores all canon. When Kirk was in his late years in the Academy, he was at the rank of Lieutenant. This was established several times. Kirk was presumably ready to on his way to being assigned to the Farragut before the Vulcan incident, and Kirk was a Lieutenant at THAT time. It’s more than reasonable to assume that Kirk is at the rank of Lieutenant in the Kelvin timeline.

EDIT: That being said! KT Kirk wasn’t previously charged with mutiny, dereliction of duty, and assaulting a fellow officer. Sure, Burnham may be ending the war, but she was a smaller cog in the machine of the USS Discovery. Kirk took charge and led the way for the Enterprise to save Earth.

The transporter screen says “Lt. Kirk” while they’re trying to beam him and Sulu up while falling. However, becoming captain of The newest starship in the fleet in 4 years is pretty lame. Prime Kirk worked his butt off to get there becoming the youngest captain in the fleet in his early 30s. Not at age 24.

I never liked that about ST2009 either, it was pretty much be in the right place at the right time and boom you go from LT to captain.

Pretty sure it was 24 and a half.

I think the only thing that makes sense is that Starfleet is a pure meritocracy where they don’t hold you back if you demonstrate ability. Prime Kirk graduates in 2257 (after already being a lieutenant and serving on a couple ships) and is Captain of the Enterprise in 2265, within 7 years of graduation and 13 years of entering Starfleet Academy (2252). Kelvin Kirk is Captain after what, four years of academy, which looks like three years of basic academy, and maybe one year of command school. What’s the difference here? 7 years and saving Earth with his quick thinking and leadership. He also had the endorsement of one of Starfleet’s best captains. You save Earth, you get promoted. The problem is, officers aren’t frequently given the opportunity to save whole planets.

Meritocracy makes sense. Remember Tapestry, where Meek Picard is a lowly lieutenant, and not a Captain? Promotion favors the bold.

Wouldn’t Kirk be a cadet at the academy? He wouldn’t be a LT until he graduated and assigned to a ship.

It may be that cadets in their final year held the rank of Lieutenant. Either way, he was on restriction and about to be hung out to dry when the Narada showed up and saved his bacon. So, yeah, a Lt. on probationary status to captain over the course of a few days definitely tests the suspension of disbelief. I’ll leave it to others to debate field commissions in Starfleet, but if they occur I’d imagine you’d be bumped up a level in rank. Not given your own command….

That would explain Lt. Uhura’s rank in the film because AFAIK she was in the exact same year Kirk was and yet she’s automatically called lieutenant which made no sense to me. I figure she would get a promotion or something in the film but she was ranked that in the first film IIRC.

“It may be that cadets in their final year held the rank of Lieutenant.”
Unlikely. They’re not commissioned officers yet, and who are ensigns?

I think what happens is that you can graduate early by your third year, and then enter command school. Remember in ST2009, he tells Pike he’ll do it in three years.

Prime Kirk entered the academy in 2252, according to Memory Alpha. He wins the Palm Leaf of Axanar, is promoted to ensign and stationed on the Republic, and protomoted to Lt in 2255. However, it says he graduates the Academy in 2257. This obviously doesn’t appear to make sense. The only thing that makes sense is if he finished his basic Academy training early and then participated in command school.

Remember, Saavik was a Lieutenant, and She was an academy cadet in Command School. So it makes sense that Kelvin Kirk was in the same kind of deal.

It was a different time

Hard to pass judgement with three episodes left. We have no idea what she might do by the finale. She may not even be made captain– this is all supposition.

Even if she is, I suspect there is still more for her to do, perhaps leading the mission back to the prime universe, engaging in a battle with Klingons back home, who knows.

I also suspect Saru will recommend her or at least vouch for her to Starfleet, sublimating his own ambition, which would also be a bit of character growth for him.

In defense of the movie, it was necessary and it worked. They had 2 hours. In retrospect though…everything all of you said.

Dude the new movies are an altered time line.They Are NOT CANNON.THERE WAS NO VULCAN INCIDENT IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES AND MOVIES!!!HE WAS CHARGED WITH ALL OF THOSE THINGS!THEN HE SAVED EARTH FROM THE LARGE PHALLIC LIKE PROBE BY GOING BACK TO THE 80’S KN A STOLEN BIRD OF PREY AND BRINGING BACK WHALES😀I love star trek.Live long and prosper people🖖

Well they ARE canon, they simply exist in a different universe just like the Mirror universe which is also canon, especially now. ;)

I hope not. it took a hard swallow to suspend the cadet to captain disbelief. From a life sentence to command is even harder, only because the war left a lot of pain and suffering that has the face of Michael Burnam on it. Here’s your new captain, the mutineer and collaborator. Are you going to follow orders?

I feel like she’ll be 1st officer to Saru as Captain. Even the book highlighted Saru cast aside for Burnham as 1st officer of the Shenzhou. Saru’s arc has essentially been to show that despite his weaknesses, he’s ready for command. It would also create character tension for Burnham to question Saru’s commands constantly.

The premise is boring

I think a season (or half season) of Saru struggling to maintain his command in the face of his own insecurities and the drama around him could actually be interesting (not that I’m predicting that).

Love the episode titles in this series. They have the same quirky quality as the original TV show. If the title’s anything to go by, then we’ve yet to see the ‘true’ Star Trek: Discovery. Could it be that the last several episodes have been another equivalent of the Shenzou two-parter?

Good points. Saru is the first officer but comes from a “scared” race.

Michael has no rank.

Tyler is out of commission.

Stamets is too.

Airiam is a Lt Commander…so you’d expect she’d be next in line after Saru.

Should be fun.

It would be interesting if Saru or one of the side characters like Airiam got the chair in season 2, or Starfleet just assigns a new captain altogether. Keep Michael on the crew in the lower ranks, keep the show going from the lower decks perspective.

Here’s a crazy thought: MU Lorca escapes the Empress by fleeing back with Discovery. In a role reversal, season two sees Burnham as Captain and Lorca as the “ex con” (in this case Mirror universe renegade) assigned to the Discovery under special circumstances.

Ok, that will never happen, for a variety of reasons, but I like the idea of the role reversal.

Still– is there a chance Isaacs returns as Prime Lorca, who returns and is given command of Discovery?

Burnham would also have her charges dropped for “time served/extenuating circumstances” and be assigned as discovery’s second officer.

This is such a weird feeling, because I literally have no idea what will happen.

Saru’s race are naturally fearful, but he’s been pretty good as a Captain. He’s got a great capacity to manage that fear, seems like. Although maybe fear isn’t the word, it’s caution and waryness. I still dont think he’ll end up as the permanent captain.

Burnham was always the best option, but she’s going to have to literally save the universe or at least a couple planets in order to get her sentence commuted and pardoned, and get a captaincy.

None of the other crew can be believably promoted. Stamets isn’t Captain material, Tyler is too sketchy, Tilly is a Cadet, and all the rest are basically window dressing (though they are supposed to be featured this week, apparently)

The only other option is Prime Lorca makes an appearance.

Dark horse candidate is a new captain altogether who hasn’t appeared on the show, yet.

Is Adm. Cornwell dead ? I forget… Maybe she could be assigned to DSC.

I’m not the biggest Saru fan. I hope this episode changes my mind!

This is why having a serialized show is so fun because you can really up the stakes in nutty ways. I have to admit while I was open about the early episodes this season I wasn’t exactly excited by what I was seeing outside of just trying to learn what the new characters and universe was about. But it was fun just seeing how it all fit with the other shows more than the show itself basically.

But now I can truly say I’m really enjoying it since they entered the MU even if I’m still on the fence about some things. Lorca being from the MU has made it exciting. I have a feeling that guy will be killed off so I’m curious who the next Captain will be as well next season. It could be Saru. It could also be Michael or yes maybe a new character entirely. And who knows maybe in season two we will see them universe hop more as well. I would love to see other parallel versions. Who knows, maybe stop in the KT universe for an episode (yeah I know that will never happen lol).

I hope Lorca isn’t killed off. He’d make a great reoccurring villain like Dukat. He’s by far my favourite character and killing him off would be a waste.

Good suggestion.

I’ve pretty much given up Lorca predictions, but I will say whatever happens I bet they don’t kill him off so that there’s always a chance to bring him back (yeah, they can find other ways to do it, but the explicit idea that he’s still out there is more intriguing). Maybe Isaacs will feel like another go some day down the road. I can see the headline now: “Guess who’s back in Season (you name it)!?!”

That said, I much prefer he just hang around. Nobody loves you like we do, Jason!

I don’t honestly know how mirror Lorca could stay on in S2 as captain. If he’s from a bad alternative reality then surely that’d be impossible? Having a few rough edges is one thing (which is how the character was originally sold) but this is something else. And I think an unmirrored Lorca replacing him would just prove too confusing and crazy for people who had already invested in this character once, only to have the rug pulled out from under them.

My suggestion would be Georgiou to somehow be brought back. That’d be easy to do in a sci-fi show and would allow Star Trek to regain some of its old heart. The mother/daughter/teacher/pupil dynamic would be lovely to see fleshed out properly.

Is mirror Lorca truly evil, or is he part of the rebellion/resistance?

They “could” have him actually be prime Lorca under section 31 orders to infiltrate the mirror universe. This would be super deep cover, complete with surgically changed eye sensitivity. Maybe to get some kind of advanced tech or something. This is sci-fi so they can pull just about anything off.

Also prime Lorca could just show up. You never know. In any case if he isn’t seen again I will really miss him.

“They “could” have him actually be prime Lorca under section 31 orders to infiltrate the mirror universe.”

Hoo-boy. Great theory.

that works if there was a reason to infiltrate the “unknown at this time” MU

I thought of this, but how do we explain his aversion to light? Another plot trick?

Or what if he escaped back into the prime universe and Section 31 recruits him? Samuel L Jackson could approach him in a post credits scene.

Imagine him as a recurring guest character.

Ok I’m in

I see your point, Soren, but following that logic, he never should have been a captain in the first place. There’s definitely something else going on.

Lorca may be from MU but the Prime Starfleet doesn’t know that. I hope he returns to Prime and remains as captain with only a select few on Discovery knowing the truth.

Who the heck is Suru???

The Brother of “Who the heck is Wok.” ;P

Your bones are ignorant and racist. Why are you here? Star Trek is not your universe.

Really? Does it pain you so much that the show has some diversity? You realize Gene Roddenberry always maintained that all of humanity would go into space. And white males are definitely a global minority.

If this kind of thing upsets you, why are you even watching STAR TREK? The show has always favored diversity, civil rights, and equality.

It certainly puts Burnham in a pickle…Lorca was the only thing standing between her and a life behind forcefields.
Lets hope Saru sucks in his ganglia and goes to bat for her.

funny

Love Jason Isaacs’ little twitter post. I don’t do Twitter but if I did I would definitely follow this guy; going to really miss him if he gets written out of Discovery as it will be a big hole to fill.

I have a question. What is STD about? I mean, is it about anything?
All this focus on the reveal of the evil mirror Lorka. Or the evil Empress. Am I the only one that remembers that Trek was about morality tales? Not comic book takes? Now I t’s just like any other show on TV. Who will the real villain turn out to be, blah blah blah. Trek used to have a point, it was a metaphor for society. Maybe our society has really become like the movie “Idiocracy’l that STD posing as Trek just mirrors the dumbing down of our society in general.

When I’ve brought this up (okay, I did say this episode was dumb – but the question is, what’s the point of all this?), I’ve been told here to grow up and go away.

And I think good Trek can insightfully show the human struggle and ask questions, even when it’s not a black-or-white morality tale.

I don’t see this doing that. At least not yet.

They just been taking their orders from Big Boss Harberts who said fans should self-police and people who are critical aren’t real fans and should just go away (now where do I know this attitude from in politics?) Seems Big Boss has his pitbulls everywhere…

You want a morality question? Burnham and Saru are both faced with deciding what the lesser evil is in a very bad, ambiguous situation. Is Mirror Lorca a megalomaniac or a freedom fighter? Or both? What is his end, and does deposing an evil emperor justify the means? Which side to back, or is there a way to back neither and still survive? What are we willing to do, what ideals are we willing to compromise, in order to get home and deliver the secret for winning the Klingon war? What is the “right” thing to do?

To paraphrase The Final Reflection, too many in these times deny the importance of themes.

The way it’s being produced at the moment it’ll attract mostly male hard core genre fans, but not much else. Star Trek as the humanistic everyman sci-fi show, for people who might not even otherwise care much for science fiction, that a diverse demographic could easily pick and enjoy. And that at it’s best left you with a warm, nice and satisfied feeling at the end, when you know… it actually tried to impart a ethical or moral point? That simply isn’t there any longer.

When was ST a show for everyone? Don’t remember the pityingly faces of “everyone” when we told them we like Star Trek? Especially the Girls… ;D

It’s a new time and a new Trek

New does not always mean something is an improvement. Every 3rd rate salesman in history has tried that trick, “oh look, it’s new, it’s better, 100% different, it just MUST be the way forward!”.

It’s traditonally had more female fans than most sci-fi shows.

Thanks! You summed up the deeper problem nicely with these people. Everything is for everyone, anyone can do anything. That’s not real life of course, but good to pretend. And besides, it’s a lie: from the very top, from the very beginning it was made clear this “Star Trek Discory” is not for one big group of people (hint: they were compared to the blood-thirsty cannibalistic villains of the series). Who seriously makes a potential part of the audience the villains and thinks this is not utterly divisive?

Meanwhile this dissolution of all meaning is doing some real harm to society, and the end of “Star Trek” meaning anything (I was being told Star Trek can be Star Wars also) is still one of the lesser problems in that regard even.

I disagree. At the moment they are pulling in A LOT of people that have never watched Trek before or who liked the Kelvin movies. I personally know a lot of people that are watching this and are , for the first time, going back and watching old Trek.

What was TNG about in it’s first season? Right, every single episode had it’s own theme and moral lesson. That’s not really the structure of Discovery.
I see it more like the well written story arcs of a Babylon 5 or new Battlestar Galactica.
And in this comparison Discovery is state of the art.

That’s why I did not like what DS9 turned into. Once they go “fully serialized”, it always ends up like this: “one-up the twist”. An entirely self-referential universe, with no real world relevance (Klingons ain’t Trump, Lorca/Tyler don’t have PTSD etc.) That is what it’s all about. For the record, I think the mini-arcs or “multi-parters” of Enterprise season 4 were the sweet spot, and entirely defendable as “modern television”. Who wants to see one TOPIC for an entire season?

But the “one ups” of STD have been thrilling. It’s working. Hell, look at this site. I see much less Disco haters and more Trek fans that are dissecting the show. It’s winning people over. The ratings are amazing.

this is an old question. this is a different Trek. It is made for TV of today. If you put cotton candy Trek on the screen it wouldn’t have brought any new viewers and more than likely wouldn’t have made it.

For the most part, I am loving Discovery and am very glad it’s on. But I do understand what you are saying, GarySeven. There’s nothing particularly profound about Disco’s ideas. Yeah, there’s some ethical questions here and there, but that’s pretty standard TV drama stuff. Disco is lacking in trying to really tackle profound philosophical questions, like earlier Treks did. It is all about the plot construction at the end of the day. People who complain about the pacing of TOS or TNG don’t seem to appreciate that in a lot of ways they often weren’t “plot-driven” shows (some episodes were, but not a lot). They were often about bigger philosophical questions first and foremost. Could you see Disco ever take the time away from its formula to do a “Measure of a Man”? No way.

But that said, I accept Disco for what it is. I do think it *is* Trek in a lot of ways, but yeah I also totally get what you are saying.

Maybe the popularity of Disco will get CBSAA to consider a spin-off that gets back to some of these questions.

That’s my hope, that CBS creates a Trek that is in the mold of the old shows. They could run it when Disco is off. That would keep subscribers year long

There’s certainly the potential for another Trek series. If Netflix wants to partner with them, why wouldnt they? They said production costs were covered by their deals with partners (Netflix and Bell) so if the same deal is available, why not make a second one?

They could either do it on a different ship in the same time (saving on some set/CGI costs) or set it in a totally different era. And they could easily spin it off with a cross over time travel episode.

Let’s hope they appease all the haters and put it on a Constitution class ship with no windows and short skirts and gel buttons and…

Tedious trolling. There is plenty about this show which still needs to be ironed out and it’s nothing to do with absurd ideas like trying to replicate a 60’s look.

“Could you see Disco ever take the time away from its formula to do a “Measure of a Man”?”

Yes, absolutely. There’s already been discussions of an ethical nature, story points that put characters in moral quandaries, and parallels to modern societal issues.

If you can’t see how that could very easily evolve into longer, more expository stories exploring these themes, then you lack imagination.

The show has more than enough foundation to pursue this route, and I have no doubt it will, given time. But even if it doesn’t, why we’ve seen so far is more than enough to sate this Trek fan.

It strikes me that critics of DSC are focusing on the action aspects of the show and completely ignoring the wonderful character drama and exploration of moral and ethical issues.

Discovery is its flaws. But there’s a strong core to build from. It is easily some of the best Trek we’ve seen in 20 years, and it’s just gotten started. I expect the flaws and weak spots to work themselves out over time.

I have plenty of imagination, thank you very much. And if you don’t see that, then you lack common decency and respect for others (see how that works?????)

And please don’t imply that I’m a *critic* of a show I’ve spent far more time defending here than criticizing (my only major criticisms have been the mechanisms of the Voq/Tyler reveal, and the idea that Lorca might just be *pure* evil after all, which I’m hoping is not the case).

Yes, the *foundation* is there to tell a different kind of story, but my example of ‘Man’ was rooted in the idea that you won’t see Discovery take a break from its serial nature to spend a full episode sitting around and discussing a complicated philosophical question. Sorry. Ain’t going to happen. (and that’s not a criticism of Disco, just a commentary on how different shows have different goals).

If you can’t see Discovery stopping the serialized story to tell a deeper story then yes, you lack imagination.

Sorry if that offends you, but it’s not indecent, it’s just how it is. They’ve stopped the serialization to tell a Mudd Time Loop story, they’ve had slower episodes and extended moments that examined deeper moral and ethical issues within the context of the serialization, it’s not that much further to see them do what you’re saying.

I don’t know if they’ll do it, but it’s not only feasible, it’s entirely possible we see something like it in season 2.

They’ve already said season 2 won’t be about the Klingon war.

I can see it. I just don’t think it’s likely.

I’m not easily offended. I will get in there with the best of them. And if you want to keep going with this, I will dish it out as well as I take it.

I don’t engage in personal attacks unless provoked. That was my point. You could have made yours without attacking me personally and insulting my intelligence.

Great… episode No. 4 in the MU… *yawn*

What I don’t get is how everyone just ignores the fact that with every episode STd is proving that it can’t possibly be in the prime/canon universe of STtos. Klingons that look nothing like what has been established in every other series. Oh sure, they say its because there are different “clans/houses” and they look different from each other much like the different races of earth look different but come on. We’re supposed to believe that in all the decades of ST shows, the many episodes that actually took place on the Klingon home world, episodes with people going undercover as Klingons, on and off the home world, the establishment of why the Klingons looked human like in STtos because of the cure Flox used in STe and the fact that by STtng, approx 200yrs after STe, the genetic effects of Flox’s cure have worn off and the Klingons are breading true to appearance again, that in all of that we were only seeing one single “clan/house” of Klingons? What, were the others in hiding? A “spore” stardrive that by STtos, barely 10 yrs later, no one in all of the universe knows anything about? Or how about the fact that it was in STtos when the Federation found out anything about the mirror universe as is clearly established in STtos and STds9(can’t honestly remember if STtng did a MU episode at this moment)? Are we supposed to believe that either the STd crew is so incompetent that they never reported spending weeks, or longer, in an alternate universe or that the Federation suppressed this knowledge, knowledge that would be vital to all Starfleet officers, so that Kirk and his crew knew nothing about it? As a stand alone sifi show STd is not bad but I’m sorry, it can NOT possably be in the same universe as STtos, STtng, STds9, STv, or STe. Yet everyone just accepts this lie, among many that they’ve had to backpedal from, told by those making this show, just trusting that someday, somehow, it will all be explained.

-STDSC is in the prime universe at the start of the series
-It’s 2018 they updated the look
-People only know what they are told

all answered multiple times

I don’t have a problem with an “updated” look but the problem is that if this is supposed to be in the prime STU then they have to explain why the Klingons look so different in STd then they look in STtos. So far they’ve explained it by suggesting that the “new” Klingons are just a different genome of the Klingon race, much like Africans, Asians, Whites, etc are all humans but have different looks. But this does nothing to explain why in all other ST series the Klingons look different. Staying within canon was a concern many people had when STe came out but that series was so good, so classiclly Star Trek, that by the time they got around to explaining the Klingon appearance it wasn’t even a concern anymore. And STe also handled telling an MU story, but staying within the framework that no one in the prime universe knew anything about the MU until STtos, perfectly. In STtos no one in the MU knew of the prime universe until the transporter accident. Yet in STd we have a ship from the PU that has been in the MU for approx 100 years? And a spy from the MU is sent to the PU? Come on that is so far off canon that it’s not even funny. There is no way they can have all this focus on the MU in STd and then explain why neither universes have no apparent knowledge of each other approx 10 years later in STtos. And yes I am a true fan of ST but have no problem with “updated” looks and story lines, I love the new KT ST movies prehaps even more so because they didn’t try to place them in the PU. This gives them the freedom to tell new stories without being hampered by what has come before. But if they are going to create a new series that is supposed to be in the prime/canon universe then they at least have to create plausible explanations for the differences like STe did. As I said before this series is great SiFi storytelling but I would embrace it more if, and when, they admit that it is not actually in the canon universe.

Please no more of this.

Isn’t one of Trek’s core principles the idea of evolving? To strive to be something more than what you were before? Don’t be complacent with who/what you are but instead aspire? Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. But you never stop trying.

I’m a hardcore old school Trekkie as much as the next, but being stuck in the past seems the antithesis of ‘Trek.’

I’m not “stuck in the past”. The new KT Star Trek movies are great. I love the updated looks and storylines and the fact that they can tell new stories without their hands being tied. But STd is so far off canon that they will, at some point, have to admit that it is not set in the canon universe. It really seems more like a series designed to appeal to the SJW crowd more then any other and I don’t have a problem with that either. Just don’t try to sell it as something that it so obviously is not and it obviously is not in the canon universe.

I don’t see a problem with that.. Totally lovin’ what I’m seein’ :)

Do we know where Lorca Prime is? Is he dead? I don’t believe we have an answer to that, which certainly means that Lorca Prime could be alive and replace Mirror Lorca eventually.

Even if Lorca is from the mirror universe he could be still a member of the rebel’s alliance. Maybe he was looking for something in our universe that could aid him in the fight against the Terran Empire! The other question is, where is our universe Lorca during all this?

Yes I made the same point. We dont know yet if Lorca is ‘bad’ or if he was one of the good guy mirrors.

Also if his going to the Prime universe was not an accident, then he knows how to do it.

the only reason I might dispute this is that Lorca originally told Burnham to fire on the Rebel leaders

Good point Disco. That would have been the best thing for him if his plan was to over-throw the Emperor…destroy the rebels in the process.

Has anyone else noted that in the trailer the shot of all the dead bodies laying on the ground could be the Defiant?

Defiant has been in the Mirror U for 100 years, plus Archer & his crew cleared out the bodies.

That doesn’t preclude it from happening again.

Just going by the backstory in David Mack’s Desperate Hours, wherein they both are command level quality according to Captain Georgio, I think that Michael will “allow” Saru to be her captain and he will acknowledge to her and to Starfleet he was wrong about her. And that will be the start of season 2.

And they will form a detective agency and solve crimes together.

“May the Spores be with you ! “

I hope it ends with Lorca as the new Terran Emperor.

It seems pretty clear that the Lorca who belongs in our universe will make an appearance and save the day. The real Lorca will be in the dark when it comes to Discovery’s potential, but he may get the option to learn real quick.
I can see Burnham having to choose who to save between 2 Lorca’s. The Prime Lorca, and the Mirror Lorca may end up face to face, dressed identically, and who Burnham decides to save could mean the difference between being stuck forever in the MU, or getting home.
I can see Burnham having her commission reinstated. Saru is given the position of Chief Science officer, and 3rd in command, and Burnham becomes Lorca’s Executive officer.
Tilly is made an ensign…
Stamets evolves to become a Mycellial Interspacial Navigator- the only known semi-corporeal, Mycellial lifeform in history, who must rely on Discovery’s unique Mycellial signature to survive.
The good doctor will only exist as a Mycellial imprint, but will offer aide, advice, and comfort to Stamets.
Will we meet Discovery’s CMO?
If Tyler isn’t taken in for interrogation when they return to the prime universe I will be very disappointed.