“Will You Take My Hand?”
Star Trek: Discovery Season 1, Episode 15 – Debuted Sunday, February 11th
Teleplay by Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts, Story by Akiva Goldsman, Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts
Directed by Akiva Goldsman
SPOILER-FREE REVIEW
“Will You Take My Hand?” wraps up the first season of Star Trek: Discovery with a solid episode that satisfies the main threads of the series so far. The character development is strong, with many of the arcs coming to a conclusion. The plot lines tie things up with some tropes and cliches along the way, but was still able to deliver some surprises. There is much to admire, notably the embrace of the ideals of Star Trek. But there are are also moments that take you out of the narrative, including some head-scratching story logic.
The cast is at the top of their game, with effective performances across the board. Guest star Michelle Yeoh continues to chew up the scenery as the Terran Emperor. Sonequa Martin-Green carries the episode as Michael Burnham’s journey is book-ended with the dramatic season opener.
The production design and costume teams also delivered some of their best work of the season. The finale brings welcome servings of world-building as well as copious fan service, with call-backs to earlier episodes of Discovery and from general Trek lore. However, there wasn’t as much action as one might hope for a season finale set to resolve a war.
The first season of the new Trek series ends by answering most of the remaining questions, while opening up some new lines of inquiry to discover in the future.
Sonequa Martin-Green as Michael Burnham; James Frain as Ambassador Sarek.
RECAP
[SPOILERS BELOW]
Best served cold
The episode begins by setting the stage and the stakes, with a Klingon armada approaching Earth as the USS Discovery approaches the Klingon home world of Qo’noS. Sorry, Emperor/Captain Georgiou doesn’t want us to call it a “home,” letting the bridge crew know the Klingons are all “animals.” The introduction is also set for us by a hard-boiled voice-over from Michael Burnham, telling a tale about defeating fear in war.
The opening bridge scene is one of many to evoke echoes of the season opener. Once again we have Michael Burnham, Saru, and Georgiou bantering. This time the sibling rivalry of Saru and Burnham has been replaced with a precision tag team passive-aggressive testing of Georgiou. And this Mirror Georgiou is not doing a good job of hiding her ruthlessness or showing the kind of fun camaraderie the real Captain Georgiou had in that first episode. Things descend into innuendos about the tastiness of Kelpiens in one of many moments in the episode that borders on the fine line between entertaining and corny.
You can have this Kelpien with a side of sass
As worked out in the previous episode, the plan is still to go to Qo’noS to do some recon for a planned Starfleet attack. Georgiou and Burnham visit the two resident Klingons on board to press them for information on which cave is best to jump the ship into on Qo’noS. The chat with L’Rell turns violent as she is clearly not ready to join #TeamFederation, mocking her torturers by telling them they have “already lost.” Luckily Voq-now-Tyler is more than happy to drop some knowledge about how the location of the Shrine of Molor is their best bet, and lucky for them the land has been given to the Orions, of green-skinned “Orion slave girl” fame.
I make these shock constraints look good
Throughout all of this Michelle Yeoh and Sonequa Martin-Green have a great dynamic, showing a new spin on the chemistry they have had since the first episode. Both seem to be trying to bring the other to their way of thinking and it isn’t clear if either of them are making any headway, but it is fun to watch.
Soon Georgiou puts together her Orion Sin City heist team by bringing in Tyler and Tilly, who has a wonderful moment of transitioning from Captain Georgiou fangirl to Emperor Georgiou realization dread. Burnham shutting down Tilly’s reflexive Terran salute was one of the funnier bits and just the start of Mary Wiseman’s track to carry much of the comic relief for this otherwise serious finale. Keeping with the heist-movie motif, Tilly is also given the mapping drone in a case with a hand-cuff lock.
Georgiou’s Four
With the team suitably decked out as “lowlifes”, they head out after Stamets spore-drops them into a cave under Qo’noS, exclaiming “Am I good or what?” Paul has been through a lot this season and even though Anthony Rapp has little to do this episode, he has fun with what he’s got. And the effects shot of the jump into the cave is one of the coolest for the season.
Hiding inside a volcano, what could possibly go wrong?
Qo’noS after dark
The action then moves to the Orion compound on Qo’noS, which was impressively realized in what may be some of the most elaborate single-episode sets for Star Trek ever. Everywhere you looked there is something more fascinating and weird to check out. This city was also well-populated, with a mix of Orions, Klingons out to have a good time, and other aliens. There is so much going on, it’s worth a second viewing to catch things like Ceti Eels on a grill, or a Trill girl getting a tattoo and more.
While having an Orion city on Qo’noS may seem incongruous and a thin excuse to have a stop in Space Vegas without wasting time going to a different planet, it actually makes a bit of sense. What better way for the Klingons to ensure Molor – who was defeated by the revered Kahless – never regains a powerful following. Giving the land of his temple to some amoral aliens keeps his followers on the fringe.
What happens in Orion Compound, stays in Orion Compound
After trading some of the hardware from Lorca’s menagerie of weapons it was time to hit the club for some sex, drugs and rock intel. The plan to seek out info on location of Molor’s temple was set in motion with some dialog from Georgiou saying “We’re not here for bread and circuses,” evoking the title of a classic Star Trek episode in a moment that was too winky for an episode that already was replete with plenty of more subtle and satisfying fan service.
Hopefully Starfleet Medical has cures for all the space bugs they pick up here
While Michael and Tyler played Klingon shuffleboard and Captain/Emperor Georgiou embraced the more overly-sexualized side of the Mirror Universe with a couple of Orion prostitutes, Tilly gets invited to a little hookah session with an Orion who has a very familiar face. In a delightful moment, Clint Howard makes his fourth appearance in the franchise, in a scene that echoed his first from back in 1966 when he played Balok as a child. This time instead of pushing Tranya, he was huffing vapors, which turned out to be an important volcanic plot point and also gets Tilly totally wasted.
Warning kids, tranya is a gateway drug
Michael and Tyler’s attempt to find information on the location of Molor’s shrine reveals just how much Voq is left as Tyler easily converses with some Klingbros and can gamble using Voq’s skill and knowledge. This all seems to hit Burnham hard as she is still dealing with his betrayal and her own past. The whole emotional moment was played well by the actors with very effective editing and pacing.
After coming up empty, Burnham opens up to Tyler about how her parents were killed by Klingons. In another powerful emotional scene, Sonequa Martin-Green and Shazad Latif break through for this episode and get to the core of their character arcs and the arc of the Klingon War. She has an epiphany about seeing the Klingons as people, as Tyler reveals he can see both sides through his unique perspective. Tyler, again using his knowledge of being Voq, gets the needed information about Molor’s temple, while Michael is having doubts about the mission, which is about to go south anyways.
Hey honey, should we get matching Klingon tattoos? Too soon?
As predicted by anyone paying attention, Georgiou had something to hide. This was no recon mission. There is no mapping drone in the case, as Tilly opens it up to find a “hydro bomb,” designed to make Qo’noS uninhabitable by activating the not-so-dormant-after-all volcanoes all across the planet. The Emperor – done having her fun with the two Orions – sucker-punches Tilly, takes the bomb and now we have a ticking clock.
Get ready for the pain Tilly
Let’s wrap it up
Back on the Discovery, the crew ring up Admiral Cornwell with Michael leading the charge and arguing against genocide. In case you didn’t get the parallel, Burnham brings up her mutiny in the pilot, saying this time she is ready to defy orders for the right reasons. And in a “I am Spartacus” moment, Saru and the rest of the crew rise to join her, letting the admiral know despite the threat to the Federation, they “are Starfleet” and war crimes just aren’t on their todo list for the day.
Do we have to start an apocalypse? We don’t wanna
Michael finds the Emperor in the ruins and lets her know she talked the Federation out of her dastardly plan of “planetary slaughter.” Of course, being an evil emperor, she still wants to go through with it, as it will somehow help her rise to power or something. It finally sinks in to Michael that this Georgiou is not going to be a suitable substitute for her dead captain. However, Burnham still can manipulate the tiny bit of Georgiou’s sentimentality for her dead Mirror daughter to get her to relinquish the bomb’s detonator. And – inexplicably – they just let the Emperor go with her pardon in hand and a “Be good, Philippa,” which might as well have been “see you in a guest arc in season 2.”
Bye, Felicia Philippa
Plan B is to give the detonator to a surprised L’Rell, now back in her Klingon regalia. It falls to Tyler, reverting to Voq-mode, to inspire her to take on the mantle of leadership. This moment leads to their love rhombus finally coming full circle as Tyler tells Michael he is going to stay with L’Rell. Once you get past scratching your head about why Starfleet would let this former spy with classified info go, you are rewarded with a powerful goodbye scene, complete with obligatory kiss.
Who knew loving a Human/Klingon hybrid would be so complicated
The Klingon-Federation War ends with L’Rell using the bomb to strong-arm the Klingon High Council in their volcanic chamber. This former prisoner faces mockery from the assembled leaders of the fractured houses, but they pay attention when she whips out her iPad to show them her favorite new game app is Planet Crush. You almost expect Threepio to show up and decry “she’s holding a thermal detonator!” Once again Mary Chieffo proves why she is the season one Klingon who has risen to the top and deserves to reunify the houses with a speech mixing threats with calls to a return to honor. So, this conquering-obsessed race on the verge of ultimate victory decides pack up their warriors and bring the fleets home. That was easy…
While I have you guys in a buying mood, anyone interested in a time share on Risa?
Everyone is a winner
The war arc was wrapped up quickly to give us an extended coda, complete with medal ceremony akin to the end of JJ Abrams’ first Star Trek. Stamets gets promoted to Lieutenant Commander, Culber gets remembered, Tilly is now an ensign on the command track, and Saru is the first Kelpien to get Starfleet’s Medal of Honor. Detmer, Airiam, and the rest of the bridge gang are there and it seems everyone is getting a medal too, except Chewbacca, screwed again.
These awards shows always run late
Michael Burnham is also allowed to give an extended speech, which was previewed in her voice-over from the beginning of the episode. The former mutineer reminds the assembled guests – including those complicit in the recent attempted genocide – that the Federation and Starfleet are all about righteousness and goodness and exploring strange new worlds. While this should be a feel good Star Trek moment, it felt a bit forced and a bit too much.
More satisfying were quiet character moments, including Michael and her mother Amanda, with Mia Kirshner ably returning to the role. Once again there is a nice callback to something earlier in the season, showing that Michael now understands her mother’s advice to never forget her humanity. And it was left to her father Sarek to give Michael the big news that all was forgiven and she was returned to the rank of Commander. While a nice scene, it still feels like this later season Sarek is too sentimental compared to the ice cold Sarek seen in “Lethe” and will later be seen in “Journey to Babel.”
Sarek family enjoys some PDA while away from Vulcan
The episode – and season – ends with a classic light mood on the bridge, with our crew bantering like old pals. Tilly is excited to see Vulcan, Stamets is happy to let the ship just warp, awaiting some new way to use the spore drive that doesn’t involve hooking him up to the mycelial network and Saru notes he is only the acting captain until they pick up the unnamed new captain on Vulcan. Sarek is also hitching a ride home for fun.
Anyone here think we can get out of this episode without something else happening?
Of course that wasn’t the end, as this is Discovery and so we need to get our twist on. This week’s surprise arrives via a priority one distress call from a Starfleet vessel. Little hints on the ID of said vessel start dropping until it is revealed to be Captain Christopher Pike’s USS Enterprise. We don’t see or hear from any of the crew, which includes Mr. Spock, but we did see the ship come into view in a wonderful reveal. This may have been predicted, but it should still be an emotional thrill for any Trek fan.
Complete with classic music cues, Starfleet’s famed NCC-1701 fills the screen, and comes nose-to-nose with the USS Discovery. And with that huge moment to keep fans chattering during the gap between seasons, we fade out into Alexander Courage’s theme for the original Star Trek over the Discovery end credits.
Entersurprise!
ANALYSIS
Deus Ex Michaela
While “Will You Take My Hand?” succinctly ended the first season arc for Discovery, the conclusion to the Klingon-Federation War felt rushed and doesn’t entirely make sense. Based on everything we know about Klingons, it is hard to imagine a bomb threat and talk of losing their way is enough for them to hand back all their victories and give L’Rell the keys to the Empire.
Even the head of her own House of Mo’Kai (Ujilli) was seen laughing at her, and he was right. A good speech may be how the Federation can be swayed, but persuasion on Qo’noS should require some action. Something like Michael Corleone’s “Baptism of Fire” path to leadership would have been more the Klingon way; perhaps using a targeted version of the hydro bomb to take out some or all the heads of other houses. And it wouldn’t have hurt for the Federation to show an act of courage and honor along the way to get the Klingons respect. Wasn’t that the whole point of the concept of “The Vulcan Hello?”
While the trip to Orion Town was fun, it was another lost opportunity for Discovery to fulfill its promise to explore the Klingons as “the other.” We spent an episode on Qo’noS yet learned very little about the Klingons. Time might have been better spent with L’Rell as part of the plan from the beginning with her and Voq/Tyler and Burnham learning to trust and sympathize with each other to find a way to peace.
Yes, it was satisfying that the ideals of the Federation were upheld and part of the solution for the episode. However, the entire set up of the Federation badly losing a war, handing the Discovery to the Emperor and the agreement to wipe out Qo’noS was an absurd straw man for Burmham and the Discovery crew to take down. One would hope the bar for testing Federation idealism is higher than a “yes” or “no” on genocide.
It’s not that the plot was handled poorly. The war was concluded, the idealism of the Federation and Starfleet was reinforced and we are off to more adventures in season two. However, it just feels like there was so much potential to do better with the Klingon-Federation war arc, not just in this episode but throughout the season.
Fine, be that way, we’re leaving!
This disco is a family
The best thing about this finale is how it deals with the characters, which is what it is all about in the end. Across the board we learn more about each of our characters as they grow and close important chapters on their arcs.
Like all good ‘Peak TV’ aspiring shows, Discovery was replete with broken and flawed characters. In this finale, the crew has grown and learned through the trials and tribulations of the previous 14 episodes to become their better selves. Paul Stamets is no longer the gruff curmudgeon, but is now affably effective. Without losing her vitality, Tilly has been tempered and is able to demonstrate strength and resolve. Saru has used his instincts as a prey species to find courage and confidence as a leader.
We learn more about Tyler as he literally holds on to the rope of his humanity. Perhaps the most troubled character of them all, this transformed Klingon has finally found peace with his dual nature and is ready to return to his people to bear the torch of hope he has learned from his time being human.
Most fulfilling of all is the resolution of Burnham’s journey, which has been the biggest through line for the series so far. We ache for Michael as she struggles through the guilt of the death of her parents. We feel for her as she finds a way to forgive herself and we can rejoice with her as she is able to learn from her past to lead this family back to the light.
I’m back, baby
USS Twisterprise
The season ended with the exciting – and emotional for Trek fans – introduction of the USS Enterprise. The famed ship of the original Star Trek wasn’t just a cameo – it will apparently play a role in the second season, which is a risky but intriguing idea sure to keep the buzz going during the hiatus.
The ship we saw has been re-interpreted to be both familiar to the classic look, but also fit well within the aesthetic of Discovery. The effects work was impressive, as the ship has been updated beautifully for a modern audience used to how Starfleet ships look on this new show.
Of course with the look of so many things in Discovery being different than the traditional style of the TOS-era, it is no surprise that the USS Enterprise was handled differently. Star Trek: Discovery is a new show and its creators should be given the latitude to both expand the canon and to fulfill their own design vision. They should not be shackled to paint within the lines and as I wrote in an editorial after the first trailer was released “I just can’t get too worked up over aesthetics as long as they are ‘in the zone.’” I still believe that.
Upon reflection, I am of two minds about the Enterprise. It was wonderful and exciting and a very respectful and beautiful redesign that works well with the show. However, redesigning the Enterprise could be also be seen as unnecessary and possibly counter-productive.
Even though Discovery is a visual reboot in terms of tech and style, it is still part of the canon of the Prime universe of Trek lore. One way this show could have made that clear was to leave this one element alone, as it has been handled on other Trek series that have shown the classic USS Enterprise. The ships of Star Trek are characters and the most iconic of them all is the original Enterprise. Seeing it in its original glory – perhaps with some more detail and fitting within the lighting scheme of Discovery – could have been a great way to honor how this new series is part of that Trek history. And it could have put to rest the continuing debate on if the show truly is part of the prime timeline.
That being said, with the new Enterprise playing a part in the second season, and not just a cameo for the season one finale, it seems reasonable that the ship has been updated to work with the show along with all the other many elements that are part of this visual (but not story) reboot of Star Trek.
I’m the USS Enterprise, really
Discovery’s adventure is just beginning
“Will You Take My Hand?” is a surprisingly character-focused season finale that wraps up the big arcs for the season and sets up some mystery for season two. This initial journey of Michael Burnham and the crew of the USS Discovery feels fulfilled, even with a rushed story that had some head-scratching logic. At times a bit hokey and maybe straining the fourth wall, the episode also paid off fans of the series and the franchise with plenty of callbacks.
The cliffhanger twist with the redesigned USS Enterprise may dominate much discussion about the episode, but what’s more important is that we now have a ship and crew that seems ready to start exploring strange new worlds and seeking out some new and exciting stories for the next season, and beyond.
OK, galaxy. We’re ready. What else you got?
Random thoughts, connections, easter eggs
- The “Previously on Discovery” voice over was done in Klingon by Mary Chieffo (L’Rell).
- How did the USS Discovery get so close to Qo’noS without being attacked? Or maybe it fought all the way to the heart of the Empire in a cool series of unseen battles? Would it kill these guys to give us some hot ship-on-ship action?
- It was revealed that Georgiou is from Malaysia, just like Michelle Yeoh.
- Georgiou’s group was referred to using 24th century (and sometimes 22nd century) term “away team” instead of the usual 23rd century parlance “landing party.”
- Included in the weapons traded to the Orions were Nausicaan pistols.
- With the exception of a long-distance distorted shot in Star Trek: First Contact, this episode featured Trek’s first urination scene and it was a “two-fer,” as the Discovery production team takes the idea that Klingons have redundant organs a bit too far.
- Tilly eats some “delicious” street meat before finding out it was gormagander space whale from episode 7.
- Even with all the scantily clad people around there was no graphic nudity. While Discovery has occasionally pushed into TV-MA territory with language and violence, this so far appears to be a line they aren’t willing to cross.
- Add to the list of Tilly proclivities and ailments, she has a “very narrow esophagus.”
- Clint Howard’s Orion seemed to have a punch bowl of tranya.
Tranya!
CLIPS
Star Trek: Discovery is available on CBS All Access on in the US and airs in Canada on the Space Channel. It is available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada.
Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.
The Enterprise is not the Prime Enterprise. It looks like a great ship, but it is NOT the Enterprise from TOS, unless it gets updated in the next ten years to look like Kirk’s command.
You should see a shrink.
He’s absolutely correct.
Agreed!!
He’s correct – why did they mess with the Enterprise unless this is yet -another- alternate universe?
Because it’s 2018 and not 1966… it fits better visually within a 2018 tv show. My God people… get over it… it is the prime universe. Geez.
This is why we can’t have nice things. And to back up what you said; unless/until CBS and Paramount are part of the same company again, the Prime universe will be the only one on TV and the Kelvin (or some equally alternate) universe will be on the big screen. The timeline divergence was used to keep both companies happy while making sure neither one would step on the other’s toes.
Abramson,
this already steps all over KELVIN toes with the excessive and sometimes unmotivated lens flares along with the inexplicably murky look of space, all of which is wholly inappropriate to STAR TREK universe I saw in stuff made between 1964 and the early 2000s.
Actually the dark murky look of space is far closer to how things would actually look in space.
So if you were shooting video with an uber fast lens wide open flares would happen. Not at the JJ Abrahms rate, but flaring would be a bi product of how a camera captures footage shooting in the dark with tiny bright areas of light.
So from a physics stand point they are far closer to reality then any other trek. That being said enterprise and TMP were far closer than other version of Trek but not as close as Discovery.
bluejfk,
you’re proceeding from a false assumption – that recent cameras with a limited exposure range are being used. That’s the only rationalization for the excessive flaring. A more credible approach would be to assume you have got a camera capable of bracketed exposures (which is the basis for HDR and currently already in use, so there’s absolutely no reason for the flaring in DSC except for slavishly aping a very bad decade-old trend.)
I’d say GRAVITY, INTERSTELLAR and NASA IMAX are probably the way more contemporary TREK should have been going all along visually (and I think you get a bit of that feel in the ship orbiting model shots in FC), though once you’re in deep space without the single source of a star, then the TMP look (which is basically DSC without the murk, and with very modest lens flare) is one that is aesthetically pleasing and accurate scientifically.
Also, to point up another fallacy, if you go back to 1969 and see some apollo IX footage of the LM in earth orbit, there is massive reflections and flaring owing to limited exposure capability, but even with that limitation, it doesn’t have a low-rez look like this CG stuff in DSC, but is instead incredibly rich in appearance, almost oversaturated with color. You can make image defects work for you, but DSC and Abramsverse seems to be using deliberate image defects to cover for bad aesthetic choices, like inferior modeling, lighting and rendering approaches.
And the whole ultra fast lens notion of yours falls apart just with the issue of seeing starfields and sunlit starships in the same frame. If you can see stars while in sunlight, you’ve got tons more latitude visually than the human eye or any camera extant.
I was using the Discover’s meetup with NCC 1701 where there is no stellar key light as a reference. TMP did a good job for the times.
I love shooting video through my 40 year old OM fast primes on my gh5 because I like the aesthetics when I am aiming for a look. If shot in space with that lens and not shooting v-log I would get a similar look.
Now, many of the nebulas are over saturated imho.
As for interstellar, they spent a lot of effort on showing the gravitational lensing of a black hole only to miss the red and blue shift of the rapidly spinning accession disk so I’m not impressed.
Just about everybody seems to run scared when it comes to depicting redshift/blueshift. Apparently the original vfx team on TMP intended to include it on warpdrive shots (probably due to the encouragement of Gene’s NASA advisor), and there’s a colorshift depicted during the FTL transition in THE LAST STARFIGHTER (I’m sure that is due to Ron Cobb’s insistence on SOME science cred.)
I’d put the SURAK rendezvous with refit scene in TMP up against this DSC/E refit as a better example of what I’d expect to see (and very much enjoy seeing) when shooting where there is no keylight, though I wonder if the level of stylization with the DSC stuff is just due to limitations of current VFX approaches. I still find that despite the great tools and advances that an awful lot of whole cloth CGI comes off looking worse (or in some cases simply different in a less pleasing way) than the state of the art in motion-control from 20 years back. Exceptions being SOLARIS and GRAVITY, to name two, with the SUNSHINE work earning a pretty honorable mention, along with some of the BEYOND work by DNeg — which, to take things full circle, includes a warp bubble shot that is very much like another element that first TMP VFX team intended for their warp shots.
I discuss that in the following article:
https://www.hdvideopro.com/film-and-tv/feature-films/planetfall/
— and for those who are wary of clicks, here is the relevant passage (and I’m out of here):
“In the past films, there was always a kind of light-driven way they had for showing the streak to warp speed,” says Chiang. “In reevaluating our options, this gave us a chance to take inspiration from real physics for our warp effect.”
This wasn’t the first time a scientific muse was brought to bear on this issue. An unused concept for depicting warp in the first Trek feature derived from suggestions by the science advisor, NASA’s Jesco von Puttkamer. Artwork showing the Enterprise encased in a warp bubble that refracted a color-spectrum-shifted starfield around it was suggestive of a pre-Interstellar majesty, but dropped in the actual film in favor of a more straightforward shutter-open streaking of the motion-control stage miniature.
Chiang’s research led him to the idea of presenting the warp bubble as seeing space fold around the ship. “Right from the outset, I was presenting Justin with ideas on how this could look,” he enthuses. “We did studies on how light is bent by gravitational lensing, then looked at high-speed shooting of 3000 to 4000 fps to see how bullets create a wake as they travel through water. We also scrutinized images of planes and their vapor trails as they go beyond the sound barrier. I imagined multiple shock waves building up and stacking on one another, forming this layer ahead of the vessel. That tells us we’re traveling at high speed and gives a dimensional quality to it.”
DNeg utilizes the Clarisse iFX package from the French company Isotropix, which combines a 3D-rendering engine with animation package and 32-bit composting software.
“We’ve transitioned in recent years into ray-traced rendering, which provides extremely realistic lighting simulations,” Chiang reveals. “It was only due to this approach that we’ve been able to capture such an extraordinary look for this lensing bubble effect.”
I think the real reason they abandoned the red blue shift of the black hole accession disk is that such a phenomenon is such an anomaly in our lifetime of experiences that it pulls the viewer out of the story.
—
One of the best DVD extras what for TMP The Directors Edition where Douglass Trumble and John Dykstra go at length with respect to the special effects on TMP…
While the NCC 1701 refit model is blueish in II -VI it comes off a lot warmer in TMP which I like a lot more.
My only issue I have with the new NCC 1701 is that the sleek designs in TMP suggest Jonny Ive was the industrial designer for Star Fleet where everything is sleek and clean. The new NCC 1701 lost some of that smoothness the refit 1701 had. Other than that nit pick.. Im good.
The other thing Discovery has done an ok job on is that stars are not all white.
Yes, the warp bubble and its wake in STB was well done.
I love the way that the prop masters really put the effort in making the gadgets updated retro.
It is not hard to see where the pro master from the cage got the inspiration for the multi barrel phaser. I am glad they modernized it.
ILM’s bluescreen matting process, which involved a lot of yellow light on the model for SFS, TVH and TUC (but I don’t think it was this way on TWOK), basically means they would dial in a color for the Enterprise optically, rather than capture the actual color of the lit model. That’s why you have this overall hue to the ship that overwhelms things in a too slick way. Apparently people really like it, I guess because it looks less real, but it always bothered me. The ILM-ization of TREK really peaked with the spacedock, which seems very terrestrial minded to me, like an orbiting blimp hangar, without any of the grace and gangly beauty of the drydock or epsilon 9 from TMP. I’m not a believer in ‘bigger=better’ when it comes to space design, I guess.
If the discovery powers that be actually try to render how the Milky Way would look in space the need for random nebulae would be less necessary.
I get that they have the need to stylize things but in Star Trek into Darkness they did a great job of a pillars of creation look of a nebulae near Qonos and it was not really stylized and it looked great.
In TMP, Douglas Trumble spoke how they tried to light the enterprise accurately as it would looked in space. They used shined a light into dental mirrors to create the flecks of light to represent stars being reflected off the hull and then amped up the ambient light a tad to give it that look which was way better then the look ILM gave ST and SW.
Does anybody realize the two ships met in interstellar space where there is nothing but far off star light? They would be almost invisible. The lighting on them was so that we could see them. This argument about lens flare, camera abilities or anything else is totally without merit.
The murky dark look to space is actually more true to real life than the old Star Trek lighting.
It’s not the prime universe, but that’s OK.
What color is the sky in your world, cd?
It still fits into canon…it clearly gets refit.
But in this timeline it would have to have been refitted to this and then refitted back… I imagined there would be some visual updating and I get the modernization argument but they managed to maintain the original all it’s appearances up until Enterprise in 2005. I rationalized the visual updates but this one is more troublesome to me…despite it just being a show lol.
Why adhere to a design that was the product of the limited technology that created it?
Simply put? The Original TOS Enterprise looks absolutely and undeniably trashy nowadays…
While I absolutely adore the Classic Looks it is so because I am a Star Trek Fan since I went to school.
Not everyone has watched the series at least 30 times over and over again… some are new, some older.
A visual update was necessary to not slide into ‘trashy and campy’ territory and as I see it they did a wonderful job to keep the overall aesthetic and update it here and there, make it look a bit sleeker and fix the damn neck.
Although I don’t like the Pylons, I don’t know why there needs to be some sort of Hole there but I guess we’ll see in S2E1 of Discovery :)
Again, I am so over the Make Trek Great Again wing of Star Trek fandom. A bunch of whiny babies.
What part of explore strange new worlds, tolerance and embracing change did not soak in with them after watching thousands of hours of Star Trek?
Oh my God! It’s the prime universe! Get over it already!
Clearly it is an earlier pre-TOS refit…come on this doesn’t violate canon.
Actually it does violate canon as we know what it looks like just before discovery and still going into the rest of TOS so this doesn’t fit into that. Had we not had the Cage it wouldn’t be as much of an issue. Great looking ship, they really could have shown any other connie and suggested this was just a different step of refit but it doesn’t fit with what we know of the Enterprise unfortunately…sad
Who the hell cares?
Jman,
Uhh, everybody here bitching about it, plus the ones too disgusted to even bother? Why ask a question that is self-answering?
“plus the ones too disgusted to even bother”
Every so often, I remember what it’s love something but hate the other people that love it. Thanks for another reminder!
sisko?
I think your comment got interfered with by wormhole aliens. ‘what it’s love something but hate the other’ … ?
You been watching this show for 15 episodes, a LOT of it already violated canon lol. What’s one more thing at this point? I think its fine though. They kept the spirit of the original Enterprise and that’s fine with me.
Some people (fans) are just hard to please. I for one, LOVE the updated look of the TOS design under Pike’s command. :)
Bingo!
There is no earlier pre-TOS refit, remember what Scotty says about the TOS Enterprise: “NCC-1701. No A, no B, no C, no D.”
That doesn’t mean anything. The ship seen in 2266 is clearly refit from 2254.
We already seen what the ship looks like in this period because of The Cage. Its just an updated look like the Klingons are. Guys you have to stop fooling yourselves, its all just updated, you can’t say ‘this doesn’t fit canon’ but then ignore literally every thing else visually that doesn’t either from the uniforms to ship interiors. Its just updated, either you go with it or you don’t at this point.
Yes! Discovery is Prime Universe but it’s also a visual reboot. It’s been obvious for the entire duration of the series, much in the same way that Doctor Who has updated various details since its return. I don’t understand why some people can’t see that.
Visual reboot = different universe.
I actually liked the Enterprise! I hope they cast a good Pike but I’d love to Quinto reprise the role of Spock.
You’re confusing things, Saar. The ship was refit years before TMP, well before there was an -A turning up in TVH.
Not getting why would look like this with inboard glowing nacelles in ANY incarnation, however. Based on the still, it is not quite ghastly, but certainly disappointing (and if that is the way most space exteriors look in this show, no wonder they don’t seem to show glorious flybys, because it lacks all the beauty of TMP and even the slickness of FC or later TNG and the first several gorgeous model-shot heavy seasons of DS9.) Except for DNeg’s work on a lot of BEYOND, have not been impressed with the look of ships in their native element of space in any TREK in nearly 20 years now.
I’m choking this up to a cross between a visual reboot and a wartime retrofit. Either way, I like this design. It keeps a lot of the lineage of the NX-01 as well as the original Jefferies’ 1960s model.
The A wasn’t a refit -it was a new (or at least different) ship.
And, as always, none of this is real.
A was a refit Constitution class. Not a refit Enterprise.
Damn it, Jim, let’s quit the nitpicking! They even kept the spinning bussards and the “satellite dish” which I would have lost in favor of modernization. This show coming home is much more important than the details of a fictitious starship.
Its not that bad. I think people are gonna be more disappointed when and if they show the bridge. or any of the interior. you probably wont see those desk lamps at ops and conn.
Its literally the SAME Enterprise except with NX-01 nacelles. Its really not that huge of a deal. It could be that they changed the nacelles in the next ten years.
Oh for Christ’s sake! I bet you have been sitting at the end of every episode all season with that comment just waiting to post it.
It is the prime Enterprise. Get out of the 60’s and move forward. Those who fail to progress get left behind. Don’t be one of those people.
Actually, in my not so humble opinion, they did a great job with the Enterprise. It has the TOS configuration with sleeker lines similar to the the re-fit from TMP and it just looks great. I like it way better than the Big E in Abramsverse. Now if only we could have a spin-off show with the adventures of Pike, Spock, Number One and the early Enterprise. I’d pay for that.
I agree Richard. Discovery is part of the prime universe, but just about everything is designed in a way that defies canon. The klingons did not require changes to their appearance. The humanoid look of the TOS klingons was explained in ST:ENT.
The D7 battle cruisers from TOS are already cool as are the birds of prey. The new klingon ships are simply not klingon at all.
And now histroy is rewritten with the new look TOS Enterprise. Change for the sake of change resulting in countless retcons.
The finale was kind of a mess for me. I like the visuals.
Agreed. And I think the last few minutes were a cheat. Liked how the Enterprise looked, though.
@Jack — it wasn’t perfect, but it ticked all the boxes. I actually think they didn’t go far enough with the Enterprise. Look at the shot with the Enterprise in the foreground and Discovery in the background. The Discovery looks like it belongs, the Enterprise not so much. They kind of got cold feet and copped out a little. On the other hand, we know the Enterprise is older than Discovery, so it could look older and out of place with what we’ve been seeing around Discovery. I hope they push the envelope with the interiors next season, and not play it quite so safe.
Well the Enterprise under Pike is older then the Discovery, but the Enterprise under Kirk is a refit that’s newer.
@April — with all due respect, that’s not actually canon. That’s “fanon”, to explain the visual discrepancies resulting from producing an ambitious 1960s TV series on budget.
@CC Agreed about the interiors. I don’t need to see what we’ve already seen before.
As I recall, the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual from the 70’s established dual urination pathways for Klingons. I took it as an Easter egg.
You’re the first person I’ve ever come across who actually READ that Med reference manual. Everybody had a copy because it got remaindered for a buck at most bookstores very early on (sort of the anti-Technical manual when it came to sales), but nobody ever read past a few pages. That’s quite the easter egg then!
>redesigning the Enterprise seems unnecessary and possibly counter-productive.
It IS counter-productive and unnecessary. It was fine the way it was. Stop trying to make things ‘new’ and ‘hip’. Reinventing the wheel for the sake of reinventing the wheel doesn’t do anyone any good.
What part of the exploring strange new worlds, tolerance, and embracing change themes of Star Trek do you not get.
Really? Really? It’s not 1966 television.
You mean 2266? Yeah well since it is 2257 it shouldn’t be.
Seriously? *rolling my eyes*
Whoops thats what I get for reading to fast…I thought it said “1966 version.” I thought you were talking about the ship.
As long as we tell interesting stories focused on exploration and the human condition then they can redesign the Enterprise as much as they like. Ultimately what I love about this show is their attention to character and how our protagonists are all imperfect people who are striving to make sense of their conditions. This is what,to me, Star Trek is all about. The design of the ships is very cool but not central IMHO
I don’t nessasarily disagree with you, but they didn’t reinvent it, just showed an earlier version of it.
I don’t think the redesign was supposed to be ‘new’ and ‘hip’- it has been redesigned because the 1960s aesthetic of TOS does not work in 2018. Discovery is a visual reboot.
The visual aesthetic of the 60s is probably stronger now than it was even 10 years back, owing to MAD MEN’s popularity, along with the wonderful construction of mid-century design. Our home is a terrific mix of furniture and art from the era, along with a few contemporary pieces that work with the colors and designs in a way that contrasts without clashing. If I, somebody who is colorblind, and my wife, who quite simply has wonderful taste in (nearly) all things, can hit on such an approach, there ought to be professional design folk who could do likewise, without having to fog the vision through glare and murk and visual aberrations that do more to distract than to impress.
The idea that the older aesthetic would not fly with audiences is a matter of the makers not having faith in how bold and compelling those designs still are, and, worse still, not being willing to light those designs in a way that showcases them (the latter being what sabotages the ships in TRIALS & TRIBBLATIONS, where they had solid miniatures that were lit and composited in a low-contrast way that gave the impression they were mediocre CGI. renderings.)
It is most definitely not stronger…
While I absolutely adore the Classic look, in ‘In a Mirror, Darkly’ it looked absolutely trashy.
It worked back then, it worked through the movie era but it does look trashy and campy nowadays and as I see it they did a good Job, they kept the general aesthetic and size and updated it to 2018.
Make it actually look new and exciting, make it people (especially) New and Old alike want more of it and Hell yes…
I want more!
It looks sleek, it looks fabulous, the only thing I need to see is the Crew!
SelorKith,
MIRROR DARKLY looked like a fan product, probably owing to shooting on HD instead of film, which brings to the fore the wrong elements of the original design, with respect to color and finish.
So what you are saying is… the Original Design only looks good in a 1966 Studio Enviroment with 1966 Cameras and TVs?
Drop HD and 4K and go back to black and white TVs so you can enjoy a new “Original” Enterprise scooting around?
HD is a visual disimprovement over 35mm in all sorts of ways, especially the ‘presence’ that is very video-like. The fact the original looks as good as it does on blu-ray given the limitations of the materials and budget should undercut your very own argument, and points up how good 35mm really still is, as a certain Mr. Nolan has been able to point out while even going further with the IMAX shoots.
Both my kids love the new enterprise so Kurtzman and crew nailed. Maybe you should think less of yourself.
STAR TREK MONEY SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Loved the Enterprise design. I just dont get why it’s so hard to accept a visual reboot while this still being the same exact Enterprise. I’m happy to give the producers that creative liberty.
I completely agree! Disco is just a visual reboot, nothing more. It gave me goosebumps to see the Enterprise flying in to meet the Discovery.
Throwback to TNG “Yesterday’s Enterprise” when Enterprise-C meets the Enterprise-D.
:::Message:::
I screamed in joy. Literally!
Me too. I loved the updated look. That’s what the Enterprise would have looked like if TOS was done now.
These purist fans will never be happy unless the do a carbon copy of TOS.
Agreed. Let’s all be happy they stayed faithful to the original, except in “HD” with more detail.
Even in the 1970s, the original TOS team realized the Enterprise was going to have to be updated for the scrapped new Star Trek TV show (which ultimately became TMP).
They are like old Cubans pining away for the old way to cook Ropa Vieja by boiling flank steak for hours when you can do it in a Sous Vide and the flavor is off the charts.
Yes the modern sous vide method is way better.
Actually if you look at the design language of Star Trek Phase II, early sketches of the Enterprise from TMP, both the Discovery and the new NCC 1701 are greatly borrowed from those attempts in the mid 70’s….
I love it!!!
Right, but this is not TMP era. It is TOS. It’s like me rocking an I-pod back in 1995.
@DJT — you win the dumbest comment award for the thread. Seriously? It’s a fictional show made over the last 50 years. There is no linear continuity! It’s NOT real! It’s not the same as you coming an iPod in 1995 AT ALL.
Just repeat to yourself: “It’s just a show. I should really just relax.”
That’s what I’m sayin!
Cadet. There is always linear continuity. Time Travel 101, read about it.
>;>}
Because it serves no purpose. It’s change for the sake of change, and design-wise it makes no sense.
How does the original design become better by adding a hole in the warp pylon? How does it become any better by making the hangar bay lip too long? How does it become any better by making the neck too short? How does it become any better by making the hull greebled instead of smooth and streamlined? That’s the point: it doesn’t.
Want a respectful update that makes sense? Look no further than ST:TMP. That was a work of art… this, however, this is an abomination.
Also, if they wanted creative liberty, they should’ve been making their own show set in their own universe. :-P
The hole in the pylons is for peeling space potatoes.
Or in the Mirror Universe, for skinning gormanganders (space whales)…
Helm, go to full dice speed!
You do realise that TMP was released in 1979?? That was only 10 years after the original show stopped airing and they still felt the need to update it. 39 years have passed since TMP came out so you can’t possibly be serious in thinking that it was okay to update the look a mere decade after the show stopped airing but unacceptable to do it half a century later!
They updated it within continuity as time progressed. Updating the style for an established time period is a reboot.
Do we have modern planes and uniforms in a WWII movie made today? No. Why not?
They updated it in line with budget not continuity, how else do you explain the Klingon redesign?
Some folks prefer analog, I guess.
Some people prefer to live in the past judging by the reactions. It’s sad.
AdAstraAdNauseam,
What’s sad is those who refuse to learn the lessons of the past, because they are not just denying themselves the value of knowledge already gleaned, but also, as the cliche goes, destined to repeat the mistakes made by those who went before them.
kmart, you’re talking about a TV show, not war lol. Take a breath.
^
Tig2
What is it Khan said about social occasions being just warfare concealed?
I don’t know, but you are overreacting. I get you don’t like the new look of the Enterprise, but are you honestly surprised? I don’t know how since EVERYTHING looks very different from TOS, so you are shocked this would too? It would look out of place and hokey so I get why it was redesigned a little.
Look if it was up to me, there would be no Discovery, at least one set in this period. But that ship has sailed now and here we are. So even though I still have issues with some of it I get what they are trying to do and I embraced it. You don’t have to obviously but they have been telegraphing this is basically a reboot, at least a visual one. You can’t have everything look so different from the look of the Klingons, the uniforms, interiors, etc but then somehow expect a ship from a different show to pop up like its 1966 again. Thats just not realistic.
You have to forget the past, thats over. If you want TOS, watch TOS. Discovery is trying to bring a little of that back but clearly on its own terms. I wish it avoided the era completely but its what it is.
I haven’t even watched this show yet, except for 20min of the pilot and two clips, including this E reveal, so my response isn’t anything other than an honest objection based on what I saw. You can call it overreaction, but unlike you, I haven’t seen what they are trying to do yet and so am absolutely not in a position to embrace it, as that segment of the pilot episode turned me off bigtime. I had intended to try to do the three-day free thing to binge the show this weekend, but had other stuff come up … and now am not sure if I even want to invest the 11 or 12 hours needed to watch the show, based on how it looks and from how it sounds to be plotted.
I’ve read some stuff in the last day from the showrunners about their visual ideas for the E and find them way off the mark, which also reinforces that this show — like VOYAGER and Lil ENTERPRISE and the Abrams-directed things and the majority of TNG — is probably just not my thing. And that is not just a TOS-centric objection, though that does form a part of the objection.
We’re in an era of exceptional television thus far this century (which is just about managing to make up for the mega-disappointments that are most studio feature films), ranging in tone and style from DEADWOOD and CARNIVALE to HALT AND CATCH FIRE and THE HOUR and FARGO and THE WIRE, one in which I find GoT only occasionally watchable (have probably seen less than half of the eps in the run.) So my finding DSC as something less than desirable just puts it into a category with 99% of what is on the old ‘big 3’ networks and a good 90% of everything else. The difference is that I know a new TREK show could be both relevant and engaging without falling prey to this GoT-emulation model that all the streamers are so obsessed with.
I don’t even have a problem with the redemption arc of the lead on DSC … it is actually something akin to the Enterprise-B limited series idea I came up with after GEN came out, something I discussed more than a few times on trekbbs and probably mentioned here once or twice. It was a harder-edged take on TREK that embraced the political paranoia feel that you can get a glimpse of in SFS (“this is a subject you don’t want to be discussing in public”) and which fuels a lot of TUC as well, and as such. That’s probably why I was really hoping this series was going to be set post-TUC, and when I discovered that this character was going to be on some kind of redemptive arc a la what I had in mind for Harriman (aka The Guy Everybody Blames For Kirk’s Death, which probably went on his headstone if they still use them), it seemed even more wrongheaded to shoehorn that kind of LORD JIM-minded moment into a pre-TOS show, unless it was going to be a series about Kirk beating himself up over Garrovick’s death.
I gotta get back to work now, didn’t mean to go on for so long, sorry.
Well if you haven’t seen much of the show yet, then you are arguing something based on a big lack of information. And it sounds like you don’t even want to give the show a chance no matter what the Enterprise looks like, so I don’t see the problem? You’ve already, sorry, written the whole enterprise off. No offense but you haven’t even watched enough of it to really have a discussion on it and yet you are here every week discussing it lol. Its bizarre but OK.
That said I think your idea sounds fine and I would’ve been fine if they went that direction. I would’ve been fine with a lot of different directions frankly that wasn’t a prequel. But they didn’t and I accept the show we have.
I have been keeping an eye on things here trying to figure out if/when I might reconsider. The discussion about ETHICS IS FOR KINGS or whatever it was called really intrigued me, as do many of MICHAEL HALL’s thoughtful comments. Even though he and I are a world apart about TNG, I still find his views worthy of consideration and of value, even the times when I relegate them to the ‘for argument’s sake’ variety.
And I admit a certain bias against the show that isn’t merit based, owing to the really crummy way CBS strung me along as I pursued a VFX article about DSC, only for them to turn around around months later and claim they had never committed to a story — after the magazine I was going to write it for bumped it back from their Fall issue to their winter issue to accommodate CBS. The fact that there have been no real b-t-s stories at all except for PR puff pieces even after the whole season has run is kind of mind-blowing to me, like the kind of thing you would expect with a Tom Cruise M:I movie (I say that after having done multiple interviews for a proposed CINEFEX M:I2 article before Par bothered to let everyone know that Cruise didn’t want any VFX info disclosed until another eight months had passed, which effectively ended the article, and after hearing how 15 years later, CINEFEX had to run coverage of the last M:I movie WITHOUT ANY PICTURES AT ALL because nothing relevant to their story was approved for publication.)
I spent nearly as long chasing a story on ORVILLE’s VFX, but that at least had a happy ending, as I got an article out of that one http://www.studiodaily.com/2018/02/vfx-better-brighter-future-foxs-orville/ (sorry, no new or interesting pics)
I am also surprised and sad that CBS hasn’t let their VFX people speak to the press.
Not just that, there haven’t been any cinematography stories either. American Cinematographer isn’t the only place that hasn’t covered it (outside of getting some gushes about the cinematography from DSC showrunner at a con last year), none of the other trades and journals have either. And to be honest, a few places I pitched a DSC cinematography article to didn’t nibble at all, even though the pilot had a top-class feature DP in Guillermo Navarro.
Maybe they’re saving it all for staff-written ‘making of’ book?
(I don’t think we’ll be getting anything ‘warts&all’ like the DS9 COMPANION on DSC for a very very very long time, and since CFQ and SCI FI UNIVERSE are long gone, there aren’t any periodicals inclined to give it good hard honest look either.)
It’s one thing to learn from past and go forward vs dwell about the past and stay stuck.
This is why you stay away from prequels in the first place. People can’t seem to accept we live in a different time now so it can’t look like the freaking sixties anymore. They have to realize not everyone watching this ever watched TOS, they would look at the show as a joke if looked too much like that.
Abso-friggin’-lutely! Properly stored, analog film can last 100+ years, while every state of the art digital system decays in a few years unless constantly migrated. I wish I had a good enough ear to appreciate the difference between vinyl and what followed, but I still have good enough eyes to see and love the gorgeousness of 35mm and 65mm analog filmstocks (and smaller gauge Kodachrome, may it rest in color-saturated peace.)
It looked so freaking good. I loved it.
Seeing this thread so far is mostly about complaints about the Enterprise, *THIS* is what people have to complain about in this up to now deeply controversial show? I thought this redesign was much, much more faithful to the original than I would have ever expected (compare the ridiculous “hot rod” Abramsverse Enterprise!) I was amused how similar the FX sequence of the Enterprise looked to the fan-made one we just saw two days ago! Because nobody ever thought they’d really go by that.
The fan made one looked better. The pylons were more in keeping with the original.
oh who cares, jesus christ the whining over nothing
I would have been much happier with straight pylons to me that is a big change ot eh TOS and refiot designs.
@Rich C — the straight pylons are part of what makes the TOS Enterprise look dated. I’ve always thought that. There’s a reason the first thing they changed was the pylons in TMP. In my opinion, they got cold feet and didn’t go far enough in updating it, trying to stay true to the original for the sake of the most anal hard core fans …
Agreed. The TOS Enterprise screams “THIS WAS MADE IN THE SIXTIES” and would feel VERY out of place to the ships we seen in Discovery so far. This version has a lot of the old shape of the original but a few updates to feel like its on a show in the 21st century, the SAME reason why they updated the ship for the films, and that was only 13 years after TOS ended. It would feel like a complete joke to newbies. This is what people have to remember and Discovery looks nothing like TOS now.
If you look closely at the sets on Discovery, you will see hints of classic trek set design thrown in. The mess hall, Stamet’s engineering lab, the guest quarters that held the emperor had some decorative metal room divider protruding from the wall that reminded me of TOS.
And the updated Enterprise is a more plausible precursor to the refit ship from TMP. There is just no way the 1960s ship was “refit” to look like the one in TMP. it was a completely new ship.
I think you are right Trellium, it has the same round engeineering hull and nacelle struts, but a bit modified. this actually looks like a good bridge between the nx and 1701 refit whereas the original 60s version did not. I would not have been disappointed with the original design since they showed it as the defiant in ST Enterprise, but I like how it fits better in all the trek shows that have come after STtos. I hope they create a bridge that fits as a bridge between the nx and the 1701 refit as well.
In ST Enterprise, the old Defiant with the old design language was simply a gift to Star Trek nostalgia. If they were to make the Defiant fit as a logical progression from NX 01 it would look a lot like what we saw on Sunday.
It’s a couple of pylons………
I’ve been calling this the “Prime-A” timeline to account for the visual reboot. Now, finally seeing the Enterprise herself, I think that’s an accurate description. She looks great. Different enough to match the Disco aesthetic, but still has all the design cues that make it the Constitution Class.
Why so quick to put it in its own timeline?
When did we ever see Enterprise in 2257?
We never have, therefore its’ appearance has never been established in canon…until now.
As long as they stay true, it’ll be refit to look like it does in TOS eventually.
We didn’t see it in 2257 directly. But we saw it in 2254 in The Cage and, if you want to get nitpicky and say that doesn’t count since it was the first pilot, we saw it in The Menagerie in… you guessed it, 2254… And it didn’t look like what they showed us. It looked like TOS’s ship with a different sized deflector dish and antenna on the tips of the nacelles.
@Will — TOS often re-used the original Cage ship, and WNMHGB ship, clips to represent the Enterprise in later episodes. Since you’re so concerned about visual continuity, then you’re going to have to explain every single shot in TOS which didn’t properly match up with the other shots in the episode or season. Go ahead. I’ll wait …
The obvious and easy reason is, of course, the budget of a 1960’s show dictated production re-use as much stock footage as possible.
But, to get into it, the differences in the ship look and design are minor enough as to look at it and have most people go, “Yeah, that’s exactly the same ship.”
But the changes between The Cage and the general TOS ship aren’t largely drastic by comparison to each other (they are as continuous as many props used in movies which are supposed to be the same item but are physically not- they are so close as to be the same exact thing at a glance).
The changes done in Discovery (for the record, I like the look of the ship, I just don’t think it helps the case of the show being in the prime universe) are much more drastic than a deflector dish change and different nacelle caps. For example, if it is the same ship, you should be able to cut between the two (if we make lighting the same for all shots) and have most people not notice you switched models.
I would challenge anyone to NOT see the ships are different.
But yeah, reconciling the ship in the show changing from shot to shot isn’t possible without going to the well of various retcons which force things to fit.
However, why I like what used to be Star Trek VS Discovery (when it comes to designs)- It made an attempt at visual continuity and, for the most part, did it pretty well. Discovery is making an attempt to update and I don’t like a lot of the design cues they have taken.
Lastly, my response to Marc Henson is purely to point out that, logically, we know what the Enterprise *should/could/would* look like in the year 2257 having seen it in years stated as bookending 2257. His implication (how I took it, anyway) is that we’ve never seen this time period before and can have no clue what design choices the Enterprise would have gone by and that it could be a pre-TOS Era refit. That is what I’m rebutting. While you could argue that the ship was refit from The Cage to the Discovery design and ultimately to TOS, with how different the Discovery design is it would make no logical sense for them to take a massive detour right smack in the middle of two similar design styles.
You idiots. This is the Prime universe. Not a prime A or another alternate universe. This is it. Just because it doesn’t look like it was produced in 1966 does not invalidate that it is the Prime universe. Give yourselves a slap on the back of the head and move on already.
The Enterprise looks great! She is almost the perfect mix of the original and the refit version from TMP. It is way past time to let go of the 1960s aesthetic. I hope they avoid showing any interior shots of the ship because there is sure to be howling from a segment of fans that expect to see card board sets and unnecessary colored lighting that was only there to highlight that the show was in color back when color televisions were the big new consumer product.
It is time to update the look of TOS that keeps a hint of the original and Discovery is just the show to do that. JJ Trek ruined the Enterprise, but so far, Discovery’s Enterprise looks awesome. Hope to see more of her when the show returns.
The JJ Enterprise was fine, although I did like the Justin Lin version at the end a whole lot more…
I’m okay with the designs, as long as they clearly delineate the timeline like in the JJ verse.
@DJT — show me where in canon they delineated the timeline in the Bad Robot movies? Nero and Spock went back in time, and by the rules of Star Trek time travel, the Prime universe is being overwritten by a new timeline. That’s canon. Anything mentioned outside of canon is fake news.
As far as I’m concerned JJ movies are an alternate timeline. Nothing’s being overwritten. It exists alongside, like the MU. Besides, the TNG ep “Parallels” shows there’s an infinite number of alternate universes.
This has been explained over and over again. Orci literally laid it out here on this website explaining the idea was based on TNG’s Parallels. That and the fact Discovery has proven the prime timeline has not been rewritten by Nero. Of course you can argue maybe someone else rewrote it lol, but not by the films. They are two different universes and my guess why characters like Sarek was recast so people wouldn’t confuse the notion its in the same universe.
Well that would make no sense Curious Cadet since this show proves it hasn’t been rewritten by Nero traveling back in time. I mean the Enterprise in the finale literally just confirmed that for anyone who was still hung up on that notion.
So yes KT universe is a completely separate timeline and always has been.
I think it’s been established that JJ’s Trek presents an alternate timeline, not the prime timeline. It hasn’t been overwritten. It’s really more of an alternate universe than an alternate timeline.
Yes its an alternate universe. This has been stated for a decade now. Their universe was simply altered more but there were clearly small differences before Nero even showed up.
I think a lot of us think of it along these lines but I don’t think it has been stated. The first JJ movie is clearly supposed to start in the prime universe and Nero arriving changes all of this.
Disagree. The original Connie is the linchpin for everything else. It is obvious the are stringing fans along promising to be in the prime timeline when they are not.
Its the prime timeline, simply an updated one. Yes it doesn’t all fit old canon but it would be ridiculous to even try to fit all of it.
Actually, at this point; I’m looking forward to the howls. Comedy gold!
It reminds me a lot of Gabriel Koerner’s update. It looks like the actual precursor to the refit we see in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. It’s a subtle makeover, not a radical makeover.
Agreed. The struts and the impulse deck are probably the most different. But I can accept that as the pre-refit ship. I think the warp engines look great.
I was surprised how much I loved it. It’s the Enterprise and kind of what I was hoping for in 2009.
Of course it remains to be seen what they intend to do with the interiors…
Here Here!!!!
I am so tired of the noise from the Make Trek Great AGAIN wing of Trek fandom.
I have a great 2.5 weeks. I got married and cried, my Eagles won the Super Bowl and I cried, and that last shot of Discovery made me ___________________…..
Congratulations all around. :-)
Agreed- looks a lot like Gabriel’s version. (He was working on The Orville this past year, not Discovery, right?)
I would have been so satisfied to see a version of the Enterprise that better matched the version from the remastered TOS. The unnecessary changes really took me out of the moment.
Which is funny, because ORVILLE’s aesthetic shows the TOS one (filtered through TMP-DS9 advances) still works, even though I found GK’s TOS take to be as misguided as this one seems to be in these stills.
No respect for Matt Jefferies’s work. I get it they felt like they need to add some details, but why couldn’t they at least keep the shape?
What’s the point of using it at all, if you are going to poop all over it? If you want to be creative, just do your own stuff, leave other people’s work alone.
Are you high? Did Clint Howard give you a bit too much?
Because they *did* keep the shape. Exactly the same shape, it’s like they traced it. I would say even down to the details it’s 90% the same design. A few updates, some more detail, the biggest overt change is to the pylons, and the bulk of the changes they made, as others have pointed out, seem influenced by the refit, which was a nice touch.
Frankly, they were far more faithful than I expected, and far more respectful to Jeffries design than I’d have been.
I second everything you’ve said, SanFranDisco!
@SanFranDisco — I agree, I think they got cold feet in trying to appease the old hard core fans. I would have gone much further in updating the look.
Ehh, well no… the proportions of almost every part have been tweaked some. And I can understand some of the talk of disrespecting the original design because there are a lot of golden ratios in the original, and it was well thought out. That said, I’m fine with this redesign. Not too keen on some parts of the engines but the rest seems fine, and a less radical redesign than I expected.
Matt Jeffries did the initial refit design for Phase II and this version incorporates elements of both his original design and his refit design. It respects and honors his work.
Or it comes off as Drunk History. Never forget the attacks of 7-11.
Exactly! Even Jeffries & team realized in the 1970s that the Enterprise would have to be updated for the Phase II TV show.
Shhh! Don’t confuse them with facts!
I consider MJ’s p2 work to be a wrong direction at best … which shows that when you’re living out on the prairie too long that you can get ‘lost in space.’ I think the nacelles are a seriously flawed call in P2 that ultimately marred the otherwise near-perfect beauty of the TMP refit.
The finale had a lot of problems but the look of the Enterprise was not one of them. The design is very much true to Matt Jeffries’ concept and the proportions of all the components definitely work better for me than what we got in the JJ Abrams movies. I really don’t know what ship you were looking at.
Actually it is the Prime Enterprise This is the Enterprise that was Before The Original Series that went undergo the Refit The Enterprise We Saw in TOS The Cage this the First Refit The Enterprise Got Before the Cage and the Second Refit after when Pikes Second 5 year ended when the Cage was the Start of the Second 5 Year mission for Captain Pike
This one doesn’t have Pike’s spikes on the nacelle caps.
You really need to copyright that phrase, “Pike’s spikes.” I LOL’d.
That was 2254…this is 2257. Of course there are differences.
LOL!
Not sweatin’ the redesign on the Big E. She’s still a hot lady in space!
It’s a little reminiscent of Gabriel Koerner’s version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXa0cfaTlfk
This review covered most of what I had to say, and I agree with the assessment.
Stray observations:
–Paris is way overdeveloped. What next, a covered train running under the Eiffel Tower?
–Stabilizer beams!!! NOT rockets, damn you JJ. NOT rockets. Putting rockets in the saucer ate up a helluva lot of interior space. Why couldn’t JJ have just said ‘stabilizer beams’ or ‘anti-grav thingies?’
–Well, now we know what Troi sees in Worf.
–Is it ‘Kay-less’ or ‘Kay-lish?’
–Would love to have had the closing credits end on a still of either dancing Vina or Balok’s mannequin. At least we got the opera lady.
–So, Burnham falls in love, then kicks him to the curb like yesterday’s gahg. She IS captain material!
Rockets on a starship is is like a catalytic converter on a Tesla.
@CmdrR — I hated the throw back end title. Yes we saw the Enterprise, but a modernized Ent, not the one that matched the dated 60s orchestration of TOS. Took me right out of everything they’ve been building up to all season …
Really enjoyed the episode overall. I’m impressed they did a season long war story and showed barely any fighting! 😉 The 1701 looked great, it really would have looked strange if not “updated” to align with the Discovery style guide. It reminded me a bit of Gabriel Koerner’s design from back around 2009.
The Enterprise, as seen in this episode, looks good to me. Not quite the classic design, but very recognizable as the ship we all know and love. Discovery was an up and down experience for me this season. At times, I almost gave up on it. But no first season is without weak spots, especially when it comes to Star Trek. This first season ended very nicely.
I actually cried when the Enterprise came into view, and cried even harder when the classic theme music began to play.
Why such a reaction on my part? Because Star Trek has meant so much to me over the forty-five years since I first saw a re-run of “Amok Time”. I’ve lived through the best of times and the worst of times for the show, the films and the various sequels. And starting with the trip to the Mirror Universe, “Discovery” earned its place in my own interpretation of canon.
Did anyone else notice Ceti eels?
Totally. Yes.
Yep!
THE NACELLS ARE ALL RONG
*wrong*
*Nacelles*
Well, in terms of word count, 60% of the sentence are still spelled correctly.
I actually loved how low key the finale turned out to be. It focused on characters and not plot. The Enterprise was great, easy fan service, but oh boy are they setting themselves up for (hard) questions in season two.
Despite it totally contradicting practically everything I predicted for the finale I must say that I did enjoy it. I had a few reservations about how close to annihilation the Federation came but to be fair the previous references were so vague that I think they get away with it. I enjoyed seeing an update to the Orions but absolutely loved seeing the Enterprise. I think after having twist after twist for the last few weeks a more straightforward finale was probably what was needed.
And a Clint Howard cameo!! Yeah.
And I guess just an odd coincidence?….but a “Matt Decker” is the music editor for this show. Maybe I’m the only once noticing that. Digging the end theme.
In a previous episode over the intercom on Disco a “Cadet Decker” is being called. I forget which episode buy I LOVED that attention to detail.
They probably won’t bring him back, that way in s2, somebody on a podcast can break down while crying out, he was “but not anymore!”
The finale was, much like last week’s episode, kinda meh. Like the recent movies, events unfold so fast you don’t have time to think about whether they logically follow. Don’t believe me, then go back at watch TWOK, or any older movie really, and see how they seem to positively crawl compared to movies and shows of late. Pictures these days, like our politics, are about distraction upon distraction.
Anyway, I’m over it, and I digress. I’ll keep watching. But are they really going to show Pike’s Enterprise, and mention Pike, and show a subtly redesigned TOS Enterprise, and then let us stew in it for the next seven months? Sadists! O, cruel fate!
OK, I’m over that, too. I’m sure someone will list the design differences between the Enterprises and do a detailed analysis, but what I noticed were changes to the hull markings and placement (further back on the nacelle), the nacelle end caps (more like the grille design from the TOS pilot model), but a lack of the antennae from the Bussard collectors, and of course the swept-back pylons that look borrowed from the movies-era Enterprise.
Secondary hull looks pretty faithful to the original. Saucer section looks flatter and larger, with a row of lights or windows topside halfway up. And overall, a lot of new glowing stuff, and spotlighting on the hull markings, also like the movies.
I wonder how they’ll deal with the fact that Jeffrey Hunter, Leonard Nimoy, and Majel Barrett are all dead. Will we get recasts (Maybe Quinto?), awesome computer effects like Star Wars had, or will all of our favorite characters be completely just off screen?
Not a bad way to drum up some “who’llbe playing Spock? Will they show them at all?” press for the next season.
Get Quinto to do it. I think it would be swell if he and Nimoy were the actors that tied the two trekverses together :)
They already knocked that notion down. Spock won’t be seen.
Kurtzman indicated to Variety that we will not see Spock and that they’ll explain the relationship between Spock and Michael.
The fact that Spock and Sarek are not speaking in this timeline makes it easier not to show him. However Kurtzman also name dropped Quinto in the same interview and I’d be happy if we got that.
If they weren’t dead, they’d be a hundred years old. Recast away!
@Legate Damar — we’ll see brand new actors cast to play these classic characters. I’m looking forward to seeing who they cast for Number One. As for Spock, he may have been on leave during this time. During the events of the MENAGERIE Spock states the events of the CAGE occurred 13 years earlier. But he also tells us he only served with Pike for about 11 years. There’s some missing time in there which can plausibly be used to take Spock out of the picture, and avoid a recast. On the other hand, they could put Nimoy in a BG shot, simply standing there, as we learn from Burnam that there’s some rift between Spock and her in which he doesn’t care to speak with her. It all depends on what they have planned for him. Hopefully they do not intend to bring “resurrect” Nimoy at this point.
At least one of those 13 years was spent with Kirk.
“Visual reboot”
As a singular episode the finale wasn’t great, but it was a decent capper to a fine first season. The ending seemed a bit hastily concluded, and that’s with two extra episodes tacked on late into production…
As first seasons go, I’d say it was a very good one. Room for improvement, but a great start.
The biggest problems?
– The weak two part opener
– the Klingon story sort of falls apart as it drags on
– a bit too long spent in the MU
– a hasty, limp conclusion to a dramatic war story.
But the series shows a lot of promise, and I susepect a bright future not just for Discovery, but for Trek as a franchise. Hopefully it will improve upon a strong foundation set in this first season.
Not sure why the fuss about the Enterprise. It looks away better than what we got in TOS and I guarantee if the technology had been there + a bigger budget, TOS would have had an Enterprise as beautiful as this one.
I am looking forward to getting a model of this one.
Thought this was one of the best episodes so far. Loved the updated aesthetic of the Enterprise. I could not take this show if done with the 60’s look. It was fun in Enterprise with the Defiant but in this updated look, it would not work in my humble opinion. Speaking of easter eggs, was that one when Georgiou said we are not here for “bread and circuses”?
This was easily the best Discovery episode to date, megaparsecs ahead in writing from any other episode this season, and the most Star Trek one at that, in each and every respect, even in its weaknesses (I really would have liked to explore a situation without alternative solution to an existential threat, where we have to grapple with the hardest of all decisions, but then again, alternative solutions – cheating death at Kobayashi Maru – are a hallmark of Star Trek). I’m more than happy to be wrong in my suspicion that this would be a slam bang action finale with lots of battle and violence when it turned into the most measured, deep, quiet and character-driven episode of the entire series (with a bit of off-kilter TOS comedy at that in the Orion colony).
Once again Discovery has been rebooted, for the fourth or fifth time this season (I lost counting), but this time it is a very worthy relaunch.
This, final twist of the season was the first one really welcome, and if this is the way we go forward, I’d love nothing more than to erase everything from memory I have seen this past season, starting from Burnham’s unfortunate mutiny, which has now been equally purged, all the way to when we hit rock bottom in the mirror universe. It is true, this show has hit a giant reset button in many ways, this time without time travel or spore drives, while leaving many doors open for the future. It defied every (bad) expectation we had about Discovery from this past season, even by having a last-minute cliffhanger that was (at least for now) NOT putting the life of the crew, the ship and the Federation at stake, but one of delightful surprise.
I would say this is the first episode of Discovery I am happy to rewatch, and consider a real Star Trek episode.
I was originally a big critic of this show, but it really grew on me. The characters of Burnam and Saru have come a long way, as well as Stamets. I love the look of the NCC-1701 and actually was surprised to see it. My main gripe still though is the look of the Klingons. I can accept it though if there are multiple Klingon races with TOS and TNG style present somewhere that we will eventually see. I kept looking for them in this last episode and wished they threw a TNG type in. You know they go to great lengths to make Sarek and Amanda look recognizable and the TOS crew in the reboot to look similar, the big E isn’t that different in the end, but the biggest change was the Klingons and their ships.
I’m in complete agreement with you. I’m praying that what we just saw was the people who were asked to pick up the reigns after Bryan Fuller’s departure at the last minute had actually been watching the old shows, and maybe even speaking to franchise veterans over the course of the last year. Obviously they had to work through all the ‘dark’ BS had been seeded into the series at its inception. But now, having properly got to grips with the concept they are in charge of, they will be staying true to its unique selling points: That of being the only sci-fi show that was/is consistently hopeful, noble, decent and kind.
Great finale, I know things got a little rushed but the Disco officers and crew ended up doing exactly what their Federation training, ideals and principles demanded of them. I am sure there will be some who still complain about this not “real” Star Trek but as a long time fan, I think Discovery season one gets a solid 4 out of 5 stars grade from me. Can’t wait for season 2. Btw count me down as someone who really liked the look of the Enterprise!! And I am one of the few who actually watched Star Trek in the 60s!!
This episodes in this season feel like chapters in a book. Not television episodes. I am all for serialized TV. DS9 was able to strike a great balance. But the point of each episode in Discovery doesn’t reach a moral culmination. Each episode is just a chapter that adds to the overall arc without a local morality play. Which is fine for a book. But I’m looking for more substance in each episode.
It’s as if each part of the story was written by a different person, with only cursory knowledge of the general direction of the show. No one writer OWNED any part of the story. They just added a piece to the overall product. Hence all the twists and turns, full of sound and fury.
Honestly, if you chopped out a lot of the fat, you could have told this story in 2 two parters, if not one.
Did anybody else catch, on the zoom in to Earth, Spacedock under construction?
Yup! Loved that!
So, the honourable Klingon race united not because of any religious vindications or prideful ambitions. But because they were blackmailed. Really? I hope in season 2 they realize these ambitious story arcs are really just super dumb.
You must be shitting me! I was so exited to read the reviews when I saw the enterprise come In. The best fan service I have ever had and to my surprise, the enterprise is being nitpicked negatively? It was the most beautiful starship entrance ever. It was modern, it had all the best part from every enterprise remodeled since TOS. It looks like the enterprise A with a modern touch. Much better then Abrams 1701. The best part for me in season one was the last minute of discovery, I was like a kid. Common people they attacked an icon, and they made it truthful to the original design. I was amazed by the enterprise. Good job to the sfx crew. Get ber it, nothing will ever looked liked it did in the 60’s and by chance. Imagine having Gorn in season two exactly like the one we saw in the 60’s. It would get a Razzie award.
To the writters I will give you a Mulligan cause Fuller left early. It’s your time to shine next season. Love what you have done with the characters , and there was alote of good stuff… but I hated what you’ve done with the war arc. The what? yeah I think there was a war going on.
War in STD is like santa clause. We have heard about him but nobody has seen him. Lost opportunity in my opinion, but STD deserves a second season.
Still… one year seems so far away :(
I was really excited by and pleased with the finale.
But, I KNEW when I got here, everybody was going to picking apart the Enterprise.
@Gary When the ship came on screen, when I saw those round nacelles, the red caps, and the deflector dish…that was the Enterprise. Oh, there were some details different. But it was definitely the Big E.
Well you’re right in that it’s a hell of a lot better than the JJ abomination, though there are still some pointless changes that aren’t necessarily improvements. Worst of them is the silvery bare metal finish when the Enterprise has always been some shade of white, light grey, or pearl. It has never been this dark, and honestly it looks like crap being so dark against the black backdrop of space –you can hardly see the bloody thing! Get that ship a paintjob, stat!
But that’s exactly what’s making the old TOS Enterprise look dated and unrealistic. It looks like *plastic*, not metal. You can try to convince yourself that there’s some white, light grey or pearl shade of metal, but truth is it was just plastic, and it looked that way.
While I don’t like most of DSC ships, they at least got the big E right! :-)
My 57 Cadi is off white and not made of plastic.
My one-word review: magnificent.
My multi-word review would be much the same as Anthony’s. The war was concluded in too pat a fashion. Things felt rushed — a two-hour finale would have been perfect.
Still, I can’t argue with the euphoric buzz I was left with (not as a result of anything Clint was smoking). Great philosophical ideals, a turning away from the “dark side,” some touching performances. And last but far from least, a glimpse of the 1701 in all her glory. Updated yes, but a plausible visual fit for this incarnation. And that closing music — perfection. Season 2 can’t arrive soon enough!
Yes, there was much that was good. Burnham and Tyler’s final scene together was genuinely touching and they actually dared to say what the Federation is supposed to be about without adding some jaded cynical afterthought. Fingers crossed for many future moments in season 2 building heart,soul and sentiment into the show.
WOW! GREAT episode! I think. Probably. Actually,despite some comments on a different thread that I’d be back or I’d continue watching like the rest of you,I never did. lol! Still got the last three episodes to watch as I probably will finish the season at some point. But the Enterprise,at least in the pics here,looks really great though.
I saw blue TOS Pike-era uniforms during Burnham’s speech. Blurred, but ever-present.
Right on!
WTH did they do to NCC-1701?? Those nacelle pylons were hideous! And double-impulse drives?? The colors/skinning looked a lot like Gabe Koerner’s NCC-1701. Not a bad thing, but the true Constitution-class of the 1960s is no more.
Yes, folks, TOS is being “updated”, like it or not. I have a strong feeling we will see a recast Spock (cameo) in Season Two. Although maybe Nimoy’s estate will be contacted for his likeness as CGI…?
Lastly, Akiva Goldsman is NOT a solid director or writer. The episode was rushed; the script felt forced. Prior episodes were far better written and directed.
2019 won’t come soon enough for S02E01…
To heck with the redesigned Enterprise – Sarek f**king smiled. Piss off, Akiva.
So much for just a visual reboot.
The season is over…the dust has settled. For my money, and CBS got it every month…compared to previous Treks and, especially, when judged against other serialized award-winning dramas, Discovery, overall, outside of slick production values, is pretty weak and disappointing. So many problems…should, by all rights, be so much better. Dropping my CBS subscription tomorrow. Discovery needs a lot of work and is way overhyped…how they tease the 2nd season will determine if I bother coming back. In the meantime, Netflix is dropping a very expensive Lost in Space reboot in April, maybe I’ll get my sci-fi fix there…fingers crossed!
“compared to previous Treks ”
I’m almost horrified to ask this, but which first season of Star Trek was better? I feel like there’s probably only one answer to that question that isn’t just ridiculous on its face.
TOS.
Yea, I really looking forward to NetFlix Lost in Space. I watched the premier of that and Star Trek back in the sixties. I hope they don’t screw it up.
Raises some questions about casting for next season. Bruce Greenwood and Zachary Quinto guesting a couple of episodes or do they recast one or both? Quinto isn’t exactly on fire as an actor right now and Greenwood is a character actor who can slip into anything like a chameleon.
Do 1701 and Discovery just pass as ships in the night, with Enterprise passing off a mission to Discovery? That would certainly raise some hackles.
Greenwood is way too old for a pre-“Cage” Pike now. It would have to be recast.
And, if Fox renews The Resident, he may be too busy to do a guest shot in Toronto.
Yeah, I just saw some recent pics of Greenwood, they’d have to do some costly CGI to make him believable. Both actors may be showing some mileage. If the 1701 is part of the larger arc of Season 2, and it is the Prime Universe, no harm, no foul in recasting both roles.
If it is a scheme to sell subscriptions for next season and the 1701 goes *poof* without at least a couple episodes worth of interaction, it’ll blow up in their face. And if Spock is ‘temporarily reassigned’ like TNG did with Worf in the movies, it also won’t fly. With me anyway.
They recasted Sarek and Amanda who were in the KT films they will clearly recast for Pike as well.
Since this is a web series, CBS is not limited by the PG-13 restrictions of primetime tv. That said, wth did they have to screw us out of some good orion slave girl nudity?
It appeared to me that one scene had been reframed to cut out some naughty bits.
LOL so true. NO ONE was asking to see Klingon nipples (and I mean no one) but most of us would pay twice as much for some orion girls ta-ta!
Here’s the real question: How many people will cancelling their subs to All Access?
In Canada comes free with Space TV Channel
Universal healthcare and free Discovery on Space TV. You guys get everything up there!
yes and high taxes lol
Free? Yeah, that sounds about right!
Already done until season two starts (or they add an original show I’m willing to pay for). The new Twilight Zone is intriguing; but not enough, for me, to keep the subscription without new Trek episodes.
Already done.
Why did Paris look like Coruscant?
I had the same reaction. The way city-planning is done in Paris currently, it would never happen. Also, the substrate Paris is built upon doesn’t allow for skyscrapers, until you get a ways out, in La Defense and beyond. But there is presumably technological fixes for that. And maybe the ugly overdevelopment is a result of the serial catastrophes of the Eugenics Wars, WW3, Colonel Green, and so on. Refugees streamed into the cities and they needed to build up.
Of course. After WW3 they had a lot of empty land to build on, and the Eiffel Tower itself is most likely a recreation…
If not directly in the blast radius, the Eiffel Tower would probably be okay. Little wind resistance and nothing to burn. The real danger is neglect, with the glowing mutated cave people too busy fighting over rats to apply continual coats of rust inhibitor.
LOL yeah Paris was WAAAAY overdone. It looked more futuristic than you saw it on TNG and DS9. I like how they presented Earth as advance but still feel like the cities we know of today. Discovery just went overboard with it.
Loved the enterprise.
Ofcourse the first comment I see is someone whining about it. Watch your TOS vhs tapes to see 60’s style.
It’s THE enterprise. And it looked great.
It’s not THE Enterprise. It’s a re-imagining of THE Enterprise. Not the same.
Nope, its THE Enterprise. Looked fantastic.
I cried when the “NCC-17…” was shown. I LOVE this show. Been a trek fan all my life. THIS is my favorite show yet out of them all. Like Tilly would say, “fucking cool.” Well done everybody involved and thank you! can’t wait for next season.
Still trying to wrap my head around people like this. Really? Your favourite trek show? Even removed from Star Trek nostalgia it’s a messy, badly-written series.
You say you’re still trying to wrap your head around it like you’re somehow superior to Luke whereas in reality all it really implies is that you have minimal empathy skills and a limited imagination. Liking a show is perfectly fine ditto not liking it but it’s seriously narcissistic to believe you’re own tastes and preferences are the benchmark for all of fandom.
I thought the final episode was unnecessarily rushed to a conclusion. All that running to get to that? Meh.
What is WRONG with people on the internet??? Just because YOU hate the show doesn’t mean everyone else should. In return because someone LIKES the show doesn’t mean others should automatically either. You can certainly hate it but stop putting down people who has a different opinion than you about it, geesh.
Luke Montgomery likes the show and has been a fan all his life. He doesn’t need to explain to you why he enjoys it ANYMORE than you have to explain to people why you hate it. Like you, he just does.
I wish people on this website can actually let others say how they feel without taking it so personally or attacking them over it because it doesn’t align on how they feel on a silly TV show.
I love Star Trek but its just a show end of the day, so relax and let people express how they feel without questioning their tastes over it.
No mention yet that space dock from ST 3-6 is seen in orbit of Earth right at the opening zoom-in to Earth !
Not so bad. My expectations were off-the-mark on some counts, right on a few others.
-Not nearly as much violence, bloodshed and pyrotechnics as I expected. Glad to be wrong on that. Glad they decided to rely on a character-driven plot.
-It did feel a bit too tidy. I would have rather sacrificed one of the MU shows for an additional Klingon War one. And the fleet calling off the attack just outside Earth’s moon was a bit much.
-Orions have changed hues. They used to be a vivid green but now are far chalkier looking. I wonder what precisely precipitated that choice.
-When I thought of L’Rell standing up to the heads of the Klingon houses, I was skeptical. They’ve always struck me as being dismissive of females unless they are twice the warriors of their male counterparts. And even with her trump card — the key to obliteration of Qo’noS — I suspect there will be numerous attempts among her brethren to kill her and seize control for themselves, regardless of how sound such plans might be.
-I don’t have a lot of faith in the admiral’s leadership. Her hesitation when discovering the ravaged starbase in the previous episode — remember Saru basically had to seize the moment because the admiral was so incapacitated by her emotional state — combined with her willingness to sacrifice Starfleet ideals so easily is a bad look. Besides, anyone familiar with political/combat strategies knows the best way to hamper an enemy divided into 24 camps with no unified leadership would be to sow distrust and infighting among their factions. Make them waste resources and focus. Attacking their home world would be the opposite of that.
-I caught the costuming nods to TOS-inspired design in the penultimate scene where Burnham is addressing the gathering.
-The use of umbrellas struck me as somehow anachronistic, like that hardshell Samsonite suitcase Captain Kirk brought to the transporter room in “This Side of Paradise.” They can deflect the flotsam of space from ships yet don’t have a way of staying dry in the rain that won’t be destroyed by a good gust of wind?
-I thought the version of the Enterprise looked fine. It was certainly better than the version used in Abrams’ films. I’m sure it will differ from Abrams’ in that it won’t magically be four times as roomy on the inside as it is on the outside.
-I’m interested to see who they cast as Pike. Will he be more Hunter or more Greenwood, or maybe just more his own man? If Spock appears will he be the laughing and shouting version Nimoy portrayed in that early show?
-I’ll readily admit to falling prey to the obvious nostalgia nods at the end as the Enterprise appearance and use of the TOS ending credits music did this old heart some good. I hope they can carry the baton a little farther than facile allusions.
very well said, good points
Nice touch to show the enterprise but it is risky. Would be a challenge to keep the show discovery centric when you are showing fans their first love.
How do you balance making the show discovery centric without shining the bright lights on the beautiful and nostalgic E?
Why not just have a Show about the early years of the E?
And then Riker said, “Computer, end program!” He and Deanna leave the holodeck. “So that’s it? That’s how the Klingon war ended?”
lol
LOL, nice!
Yeah sorry but the ‘war’ sucked. It just felt so lackluster of what it could’ve been.
It ends in the most trite and stale way possible – with a frickin’ Star Wars medal ceremony and rousing applause! Appropriate! Because this damn show is just a bad Hollywood movie stretched out to 13 hours. I’m not one to nitpick plot mechanics (any fiction of this genre can be picked apart) but L’Rell rising to power by holding Qo’noS hostage is a special kind of dumbness worthy of Star Trek Discovery. The obvious next turn of events would L’Rell being sniped in the head or killed in her sleep. And if you are going to unify the 24 Houses over such a silly plot device, you need to give this more than a sentence and a Klingon reacting “huh wha?” followed by “Well, war’s over, now time to rehash one of Chris Pine’s bad speeches.” We should have known as soon as Alex Kurtzman was hired, that this was just going to be kiddie-level Bad Robot Trek. Star Trek isn’t special anymore, friends. Now it’s just one more mass-market, assembly line piece of corporate detritus. We told ourselves those Abrams movies would keep the property alive while eventually we might get a return to Trek’s real home on the small screen. But now television Trek is just as disposable and forgettable as the Bad Robot features, and Star Trek has nothing more to offer than does Disney’s Star Wars or Avengers, except for longer and more inanely sanctimonious speeches … WE ARE THE SPACE PATROL! WHO ARE WE? THE SPACE PATROL! WHAT WE DO WANT? MERIT BADGES! FOR NOT EATING SPACE WHALE!
Preach it, brother!
The scenario plays out again and again: There is a dormant piece of IP we are fond of, and yet. It was of its time. If only the fans it has spawned could have a crack at it. With all the advances in filmmaking, and today’s larger budgets? We could finally get the maximalized, perfect version of Star Wars Spiderman the Fantastic Four Avengers Superman Space:1999 Land of the Lost The Jetsons Logan’s Run Star Trek. And god being cruel, sometimes we do. Whereupon we discover (or refuse to accept) the hard truth: Our beloved IP was merely a handful of details spawned in a 20-minute pitch meeting. The reason the original fell immediately into repetition was not that its stewards lacked imagination so much as there was never more there to explore. In Star Wars the Rebels fight the Empire. Sometimes the Empire is ahead. Sometimes the Rebels. That’s it. Before long it gets boring. There is nothing anyone, seemingly, can do about this. Maybe one day artificial intelligence will be able to plumb new depths out of a few sentences, but again and again we learn (or refuse to) that people simply cannot. No, CGI was never the missing ingredient.
Star Trek feels different. It was so cheesy in its initial incarnations, held back first by primitive technique and later by Gene Roddenberry’s senescence. Surely IT had never been maximally iterated. Yet J.J. Abrams, despite infinite resources and an unlimited mandate, immediately dipped into Trek tropes. So too Discovery devolves into a Mirror Universe Klingons hey-is-that-the-lobster-thing-from-Kahn the Enterprise(!) parade of greatest hits. The temptation is to blame the stewards. With Trek this is easy; they fired Bryan Fuller (pioneering a trend.) Yet let’s face it: There have been countless versions of Star Trek since TOS. TNG had some good years. DS9 too in its way. Of course neither felt definitive, both were oddly sexless, and watching them today takes patience and nostalgia. The perfect version of Star Trek (and Star Wars and all the others) may not be a realistic hope. We already had it. It just wasn’t all that great. Because it’s a story someone thought up at their dining room table. There are no more exciting and satisfying universes to be transported into. There isn’t even another order of storytelling to get lost in. This horrifying reality and dull stories written by people no less limited than you or me is all we get
Star Wars is quite limited – Lucas tried to expand the scope beyond Plucky Rebels, and the fans rebelled. Star Trek has many more possibilities and has an open-ended format that could be a fount of creativity in the right hands. I won’t let the mediocre likes of Abrams and Kurtzman off the hook – there are plenty of smarter writer-producers who could do better work. The problem perhaps, is that Star Trek has become too valuable a property for CBS and Paramount; in chasing Marvel-type money, they must make more of a lowest-common-denominator product than Next Gen or DS9 ever were.
Thumbs-up emoji!
Yup
Yet it has been in a LOT of hands without improving or even expanding. At a certain point maybe it’s the property. I don’t mean to dismiss Trek out of hand. It is what it is and clearly we enjoy it —here we all are on TrekMovie, after all. But will it, can it, be more? I think no.
Unrelated: one thing I did enjoy in a backwards way was how cheesy Kronos was. Apparently TOS permanently spooked people away from soundstage planets with a hanging sky backdrop, so many shows and now trek portray planets with a claustrophobic cluster of as many conjoined structures as will fill a soundstage. Good directors can disguise the cheat to a degree, but when the director is the exec producer trying his hand, whoah Nellie does it look fake. No better really than the old hanging red sky. Takes ya back
Here’s an example of how utterly vacuous this show is – Captain Lorca was a central figure for 11 episodes, but to watch this finale, it is like he never existed. Nothing on the series matters, except for the forced, lumbering arc of dreary Burnham – “first she started a war … now she must end one, by learning to love and also giving a doomsday device to a bloodthirsty Klingon who has learned much from humans by being imprisoned and beaten by them.”
I find it funny that some here try to insist on others that it is or isn’t canon. It’s a TV show – you can believe whatever you want- lol……
If the aesthetics bother you enough to believe it’s not canon but you enjoy it anyways- who the hell cares? If you love the aesthetics and it fits like a canon glove then that’s awesome too.
Have you even *seen* Galaxy Quest? ;)
I tried to read all the comments before posting, but no one has mentioned that the E’s nacelles looked a lot like the nx-01, with the visible blue glow on the inside, plus a few tos elements. Me thinks this is an evolution from the designs from the nx ships and we’re just a few steps away from the solid tos engines at the next refit. At the same time maybe they develop a light grey paint the protects the skin of the ship better. If you read my post all the way at the bottom, thank you.
Re: How did the USS Discovery get so close to Qo’noS without being attacked?
Hello? Spore Drive? They jumped into a big cave inside the planet
I think I realized now that in the last 15-20 years original and creative writing has been replaced with writing based on characters. I personally think this is an excuse to not write any creative plots that make sense. What I am trying to say is that lots of franchises (including Star Wars) take the easy way out by writing more “character” oriented stories instead of “plot” oriented stories. This finale was no exception to this rule, the plot was just all over the place just to get to the character beats. I think this is because a lack of creative writers in general or maybe people are not looking for creativity or originality in their stories anymore.
By the way, is Clint Howard the first actor from the TOS to appear on Discovery?
Thats funny because the main complaint seems to be the opposite, that the show was too plot driven in the sense the characters were kind of just puns to get to the next “OMGINEVERSAWTHATCOMING” moments. Lorca was basically created just as an excuse to do a set of MU stories. Tyler was created to do a strange double spy story. I think Burnham and Saru got a lot of character stuff though which was a good thing IMO. I will say the finale was more character driven but in general the show felt much more plot driven serving the next big event and little how the characters responded to it. But just my opinion.
This may be true, but we never saw the real big events, the Klingon war was barely there, and the relatively standalone episodes at the beginning of the year were much better than the second half of the season I think. I think they just had too many soups boiling at the same time, they needed to edit down the big plots to make them more clearer and just try to stuck with these plots instead of trying to do everything at the same time. I don’t know maybe it is my teacher way of thinking, but I hate it when plots or themes go all over the place, it is like a student of mine has written an essay on one topic but during the middle of the essay the student all of a sudden changed topics and went on a completely different direction and you know these students don’t get an A for originality they get an F for straying too far of the main idea.
On a gut emotional level, I felt nothing except relief they didn’t screw it up too badly. But seriously: did they watch the Orion episode of Enterprise and not think it sucked? How was this better? And Humans can walk around planet Qo’noS without suspicion on the eve of Klingons attacking Earth? It was not hoooorible but the trick of peace was lame! No one died.
Honestly I wish they would hire some writers who like science fiction and who had something other than interpersonal experiences in high school to fall back on. They need to be willing to hire people who are willing to die for their words. Is there anyone who never watched Star Trek before and watched this series? I bet no: meh and more meh. Yeoh had sex but it was meh! It could have been interesting!
I agree I felt it was weird humans were walking around the Klingon planet and no one seemed bothered. I get they were in the Orion section but as shown Klingons were still around. One of them even accused Ash as being a Federation spy, which he was so it was odd how they just walked around and no one questioned them.
And then what was MORE bizarre was that they had MU Georgiou with them, but wouldn’t she be a bit famous (or infamous)? For that matter same with Burnham. These two women were basically the catalyst for the war starting AND was known for killing the torchbearer and T’kumva. Wouldn’t their face be known everywhere? Even if they got lucky that no one recognized them it seem like they would try to hide the fact who they were. But yeah I guess that’s nit picking lol.
Hated how it ended as well, just felt too convenient. And exactly how does L’rell hold on to power with such a thin device to keep her in power? Like no one can just try and deactivate the bomb? Weird.
Weird is right, it’s an entire series that’s only purpose seems to be to manage expectations. Don’t get your hopes up too much. Ugh.
Fair point, minor cosmetic surgery for undercover work was the norm even in Archer’s heyday so you would have thought they could have at least attempted to disguise themselves as Orions. I suppose the implication is that there’s still a criminal underbelly in the Federation and maybe it’s not that uncommon to see the occasional human in the Klingon underworld.
Yeah I was literally waiting for a line SOMEWHERE that made it clear why two of the most famous women in the war was now prancing around enemy territory as if no one is suppose to know who they were? I thought that would be part of the story line, that someone would recognize Burnham just casually hanging out at a food stall and someone would take them in lol. It just seemed a bit ridiculous.
I was thinking of Unification as I watched it when Picard and Data tried to pass off as Romulans to find Spock on Romulus and they were caught within an hour they were there although the Romulans knew they were coming. But they wouldn’t be stupid enough to just go as themselves as those did. Just strange.
I had the same thought about the Enterprise episode. We reach. I also agree about the type of writers needed.