Since it was announced last August, the new CBS All Access Star Trek show featuring Sir Patrick Stewart returning to the role of Jean-Luc Picard has been a bit of a mystery, but some new details on the show have now been revealed.
Picard show to deal with the destruction of Romulus
The Hollywood Reporter has posted more from their interview with Star Trek executive producer Alex Kurtzman, this time focusing on what he had to say about the Picard series. In it, Kurtzman reveals a key point about the setting of the show and how it relates to other Trek productions:
“Picard’s life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire.”
Kurtzman is referring to an event shown in the 2009 film Star Trek, which he co-wrote. The film established that in the year 2387, the planet Romulus was destroyed by a supernova. While Star Trek sets up the new Kelvin timeline, the events prior to Spock traveling back in time were part of the Prime timeline, and the Picard show is set in the Prime timeline.
The destruction of Romulus in Star Trek (2009)
Jean-Luc Picard has a long history with the Romulans. Throughout Star Trek: The Next Generation, the Romulans were one of the primary antagonists for the show, with Picard and crew going up against them more often than the Borg. Picard was involved in Spock’s failed secret peace attempt to reunify the Romulans and the Vulcans (TNG: “Reunification”), and in his final outing (Star Trek: Nemesis) he faced off with his own clone, who had taken over the Romulan Empire. That film ended with Picard forming a friendship with Romulan Commander Donatra, indicating a potential thawing of relations.
While not considered official canon, the Star Trek: Countdown comic prequel to the 2009 Star Trek film also showed Picard involved with Romulan politics. That comic features a story co-written by Kurtzman and could end up becoming official canon through this new series.
Ambassador Picard speaking to Ambassador Spock in Star Trek: Countdown
The Picard series is expected to take place 20 years after the events of Star Trek Nemesis, which would set it in the year 2399, or twelve years after the destruction of Romulus. Apparently, during those years, the destruction of Romulus led to the dissolution of the Romulan Empire. It’s not hard to imagine how Picard may have become more involved with Romulan politics in the years leading up to the destruction of Romulus, and how it would “radically alter” his life.
Donatra talks to Picard in Star Trek Nemesis
Stewart wants the unexpected
Kurtzman also talked about the efforts to talk Stewart into doing the series, including how he and his team–including Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Chabon–prepped for their first pitch meeting with the legendary actor. Kurtzman revealed:
“It turned into a 34-page document — with no way to shorten it. We were going on all in and he was going to read it or not read it, love it or hate it. It was our best attempt at trying to get him to say yes. He walked into the room and he had a huge smile on his face and said, ‘This is wonderful,’ “
But Stewart had important stipulations about how the show would go forward, as Kurtzman tells THR:
“He threw down an amazing gauntlet and said, ‘If we do this, I want it to be so different, I want it to be both what people remember but also not what they’re expecting at all, otherwise why do it?’ “
TNG guest stars?
Another key question about the Picard series regards other characters. So far no casting beyond Stewart has been announced. During the fall, a number of Stewart’s Star Trek: The Next Generation co-stars made it clear they had not been contacted, and they didn’t expect to be involved. Speaking to THR, Kurtzman didn’t say anything specific on the possibility of TNG actors showing up, but did offer a little hope, saying:
“Anything could happen.”
Will the Picard show reunite any members of the Star Trek: The Next Generation cast?
Stay up to date on all the Picard show news here at TrekMovie.com.
so we are getting ST4, but starring Patrick Stewart.
No.
I’ve given up on ST4 but I like this concept because the destruction of Romulus was set in the Prime Timeline but is a huge game changer for the alpha quadrant. It opens up a Pandora’s box that I’d love to be explored.
It is pretty ironic the day we are told Kelvin films might be dead in the water for good we get confirmation their legacy will live on the Picard show. It’s not quite the same but its nice to know the Kelvin films will be forever canon from this point on for its fans.
And yes this news has made me more excited for that show then I was before…and I was pretty damn excited lol.
This must make the Star Trek Online team happy. Now their game fits into canon even more.
So..it’s the Kelvin Timeline… TNG era will never be the same. I bet, the fans will find many inconsistencies and the new canon will be used as apology.
No. As the article says, the destruction of Romulus happens in the Prime timeline. The Kelvin timeline is made as a result of Spock trying to stop it, he fails to do so, and Spock and Nero are then thrown back in time and splinter things off into an alternate set of events (the Kelvin timeline).
The Picard show is set in the Prime universe after Spock’s disappearance into the Kelvin universe.
Listen to this man!^^^^
What is also interesting is the wording:
“Picard’s life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire.”
So it looks like the Empire ended with the Hobus Event.
I suspect that the Romulan situation will parallel the fall of the USSR with several of the worlds they ruled gaining independence and perhaps allying themselves with the Federation. I imagine the show will mirror current global events so perhaps we will see stories in which the Romulans are actively interfering and undermining the democratic processes in the Federation, stirring up trouble between the Federation and the Klingons and threatening to invade some of their former worlds. So typical Romulan shenanigans really but with a post Trump/Brexit spin. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a ‘Vexit’ scenario in which Vulcan decides to withdraw from the UFP.
Maybe, but The Undiscovered Country was more of a parallel to the Chernobyl disaster which, combined with decades of involvement with Afghanistan, hastened the crumbling of the old regime.
To me, Romulus always represented post-WWII China, in that it was powerful, and expansionist, but wields its power differently to more openly aggressive powers. It is formally an “empire” but we’ve never seen an emperor or figurehead, although it has been mentioned in non-canon novels; not the same way the Klingons had Chancellors K’mpec, Gowron and Martok.
After the Earth-Romulan war and the brief attacks on Federation outposts seen in ‘Balance of Terror,’ they seemed to prefer subterfuge and secrecy.
The government has a Senate, but is said (again, in non-canon sources) to be composed more of noble/wealthy people than elected. The civilian government seems to jockey for power with the military and intelligence branches. The elite of the government sit on the Continuing Committee, which seems very like the Chinese Central Committee.
In this relationship, could Vulcan represent Tibet? Or in another sense, Taiwan, which is a thorn in the side of the mainland republic?
Information seems to be tightly controlled and censored, and even as there may have been an opening of trade and other formal relationships post-Shinzon, it never became a truly open society (though not as Kafkaesque and paranoid as Cardassian society).
Seeing what happened post-Hobus should provide a rich tapestry of galactic events for Picard to play against.
Vulcan was always the Japanese to me
Vulcan didn’t attack Earth did they?
In Star Trek Online, the destruction of Romulus causes the Empire to break into factions. You have a group still loyal to Sela (now Empress), the Tal Shiar and a breakaway group who want to set up a democracy free from the old order on a new homeworld.
I’m hopeful that the story-threads at least imply canon for both STO (2409+) and Star Trek: Countdown.
I waited for the TPB of Countdown and fondly remember the read over coffee at the now-closed Borders Book Store (San Rafael) just before my wife and I watched Star Trek 2009 in the nearby Corte Madera theater.
Thanks to Bob Orci and others for a great memory.
@Matt Wright — the article is not clear, did Kurtzman actually say that they are picking up after the events of ST09 and the destruction of Romulus by the SuperNova? Or is that merely assumed from the quote comments in the article?
The full THR article makes it clear, yes.
You cannot expect general entertainment outlets to understand the tiny intricacies of Star Trek canon. Most of us fanatics should understand that the Kelvin Timeline was created by an event in the Prime Timeline, namely Spock and Nero’s crew going back in time. This was in response to the Prime event of a supernova, destroying Romulas and Remus.
Dudes and Dudettes, calm down.
@Matt Wright — sorry I don’t mean to be obtuse or split hairs, but, it still seems like Kurtzman didn’t actually say that, but rather the editors are inferring it and connecting the dots. There was a “cataclysmic event” which Kurtzman mentions, but they aren’t saying what exactly. From that I suppose we must assume it’s the destruction of Romulus, but it could also be the Super Nova itself, which until clarified otherwise, may not have destroyed Romulus in this timeline. That’s the confusing part about dealing with the KU and PU and MU, et al … and why not be clear if it is the destruction of Romulus? Hence the question about whether Kurtzman actually said the words, or merely hinted at it …
It took place in a JJ Trek movie, which quite frankly, many of us would like to recycle from our memory banks. Why destroy the Romulan civilization?
The Abrams films are quite popular.
You spelled “some” wrong…..
Because it’s not about YOU! Seriously.
Those movies ARE canon and should be respected as so.
Actually, it took place in a prequel comic that was the perfect bridge between the prime timeline and the alternate timeline that would be the Kelvin timeline. I still argue that it should have been a film (would still make for the perfect All Access film and a great way to give fans a way to say goodbye to the TNG crew)
Because they needed an excuse for Spock and Nero to go back and create an alternate time line. From Picard’s standpoint, his line goes on after the “event”. I think it is perfectly clear.
It’s not the Kelvin Timeline. Clearly they are acknowledging that in the Prime timeline, the supernova happened. This is about what happened in the following 20 years. It’s totally consistent.
How do you get “this is Kelvin Timeline” out of this article? The supernova occurred in Prime. They made it very clear in the movie.
Some people are easily confused lol.
Some people just want to overlook facts to complain about Star Trek.
Because some people just never understood the Kelvin Timeline happened in another universe. We have to remember some Trek fans ARE just casual fans, they only know what happened on the screen and its still confusing for many.
And yes the movie made it generally clear but not COMPLETELY clear either. Prime Spock really should’ve said he came from another universe and that would’ve made it all clear on day one and saved literally YEARS of arguments lol. Instead they used words like alternate reality which could simply be an alternate timeline for some.
I still remember being on IMDB when STID came out and arguing with hardcore Trek fans that the movies were talking place in a parallel universe and these people have seen every inch of Trek, they simply wasn’t convinced because no one just said the words parallel universe.
You are spot on, it is head canon of course but… in the episode Parralels where Worf travels to various parallel universes its shown that there are several alternate realities in the Star Trek universe of which the Prime and Mirror U would each be one. If we assume that the black hole that Spock and Nero went into displaced them both in time, and into a parallel universe (a subtler one than the Mirror U but one where, say Earth made greater technological advancements more quickly) then whilst Nero’s actions would have changed the future of that universe, it wouldn’t have affected the Prime one. (3 universes Prime, Mirror and Kelvin)
So if we assume a Vulcan ‘Setok’ was born on Vulcan after the original series in the Prime and Kelvin universes, the Prime future Setok would be unaffected by Nero’s time travelling, because he travelled in realities as well as time, however the Kelvin future Setok would likely have ceased to exist because after Nero, there was no Vulcan in the Kelvin Universe.
What is interesting is that by having Picard deal with the events that created the new Kelvin Timeline it reconciles a lot of fan anxiety, i.e. that the three Kelvin movies in some way replace and/or negate all star trek history (except Enterprise). A Picard show, post Spock flashback means that all those DVD box sets ‘did’ happen. In addition it legitimises the Kelvin universe because if Picard is dealing with the after effects of a key event from trek 2009, then the Kelvin films, and Spock’s fate in them are also legit Star Trek. So (not that there was) there isn’t an either or choice, both happened, both continue to happen. So if anything the Picard show’s premise is a bridge between Trek TV and the Kelvin movies and not a separation/retcon.
Lastly its also thematically interesting that Picard may have a similar role in this show, helping the fragmented homeless Romulans as Spock did in the Kelvin Universe (helping the fragmented homeless Vulcans)
@Christopher — I have no problem with any of that, as long as they cement it in actual canon rather than continuing to leave it open for interpretation as Orci intentionally did in ST09.
I honestly do not see how this is unclear. Yes, it’s a TAD complicated but it’s not exactly rocket science. Romulus was destroyed. It was depicted in the movie as happening in the PRIME time line. The KU only exists AFTER Nero arrives. Did no one see Back to the Future either? Same concept.
Stupidity.
There’s no reason to think Romulus will be destroyed in the Kelvin timeline. Spock traveled from the Prime universe with knowledge of how to stop the supernova, so that knowledge may still exist somewhere in the Kelvin universe and the Romulans there could use it to save themselves.
@Dave B — Prime Spock did not divulge any information about the future, the film was very clear he was unwilling to do that. That said, Nero certainly could have told someone. Either way, it does not mean that anyone was able to stop the Super Nova in an alternate timeline. Even Spock does not know for certain whether his efforts would have saved Romulus had he managed to deploy the red matter in time.
That said, there’s also another possibility, and that’s a Prime timeline which has been overwritten by the events of the “Kelvin” movies. As much as Bob Orci insisted the events of the movies took place in an alternate universe, there is nothing on-screen to prove it.
So unfortunately, whether Romulus is there or not in this series, will not definitively confirm in which Universe this series takes place, or which timeline.
“So unfortunately, whether Romulus is there or not in this series, will not definitively confirm in which Universe this series takes place, or which timeline.”
Maybe, but of course if Vulcan exists we know we are in the Prime timeline
;)
@odradek — good point. That said, IF they show Vulcan, there’s always the question of whether the timeline was repaired, or what universe we’re in exactly — recall the discussions that the events of FIRST CONTACT split the universe off for ENT. Moreover, what if the Vulcans took over project Genesis as a way to restore Vulcan? Perhaps they correct the mistakes of David Marcus, and manage to literally put Vulcan back in its original orbit. if done in the late 23rd Century, it might be indistinguishable from the Vulcan we’ve seen by the late 25th Century.
So you’d rather believe there’s some convoluted plot to trick you than just accept the simple, obvious answer. Sure, go ahead.
Romulus…is…gone
No Den, it doesn’t work that way. Everything that happened in the movies happened in ANOTHER universe except the explosion of Romulus. That happened before Spock and Nero went through the black hole. Everything after they went through was in a parallel universe. That was literally the entire why they set it up that way so all the other canon, from Enterprise through Voyager would stay the same as it always did. TNG era was exactly as we left it….minus one less planet lol.
The fact we are STILL talking about this and fans are still confused by it a decade later really does show how much they dropped the ball in the first movie to explain it was in another universe. I can’t blame the fans completely, because not everyone is obsessed with this stuff and read everything on it so yes the movie really should’ve made it a lot more clear. Thankfully the Picard show finally will. ;)
Except there are specifically lines in the movie that say everything after Nero and Spock arrived created an alternate reality.
Spock: You’re assuming that Nero knows how events are predicted to unfold. The contrary, Nero’s very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin, culminating in the events of today, thereby creating an entire new chain of incidents that cannot be anticipated by either party.
Lt. Nyota Uhura: An alternate reality.
Spock: Precisely. Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted, our destinies have changed
Well yes, that’s what I’m saying, I’m NOT blaming confused fans, I’m blaming the movie for not making it clearer. That was the problem, it was TOO vague. I understand why Orci and Kurtzman did it that way at the time, they didn’t want to confuse people new to Star Trek, but by making it so vague, they didn’t do themselves any favors and confused a lot of long time fans in the process.
I’ll be completely honest with you, what you cited, I’m not sure if you cited the dialogue if to defend the fact it’s implied to be a parallel universe or not lol. I honestly don’t know if you are just saying its making clear its in another universe or just an altered timeline because you can literally look at it one way or the other. And crazy enough you wouldn’t be wrong on either because it’s doing both at the same time, in a parallel universe but altering that universe’s timeline as well. So for some its confusing and frankly that dialogue proves WHY its confusing.
How do you come to the conclusion that it’s a different UNIVERSE? As far as I’m concerned (and the movie and the comics state), it’s the same universe, but the timeline diverged from the prime timeline at the moment Nero arrived (or attacked the Kelvin at latest). Everything up to that point should equal the prime timeline (though we can see it doesn’t, but that’s due to them “modernizing” the look&feel).
If it indeed *were* a different universe, that could explain a lot of the problems inherit to those movies (apple store, brewery, and so on), but I doubt that’s the way the writers inteded it to be…
The writers have been very clear in interviews that the Kelvin timeline is a parallel reality and that the Prime universe continues to exist unchanged and is not overwritten by the Kelvin timeline.
Unfortunately, off-camera interviews with writers is not canon.
No one said that alone makes it canon. It’s canon because Nero and Spock literally went to another universe in the film. But yes I have said many times that should’ve been made more clearer in the movie.
IMHO, I think it was made perfectly clear.
It was actually explained and announced right here on this website by the head writer 11 years ago now:
https://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-orci-explains-how-the-new-star-trek-movie-fits-with-trek-canon-and-real-science/
The idea was based on how the theory of how parallel universes in quantum mechanics might work. They got the idea from the TNG episode Parallels and how the first film was born.
Again I GET not everyone will have read every little thing about these movies but this is exactly what the writers envisioned and created the films in a parallel universe. The PROBLEM is they didn’t take the time to explain it at a tenth of the level in the actual movie because they were afraid of scaring away the non-nerds and ten years on people are still arguing about something that has been pretty obvious for awhile.
I guess it doesn’t matter that I thought the movie itself explained the situation perfectly well.
Yes, the movie explained it, and I guess we’re all being nitpicky about the term “universe” here. I think we mean the same thing, actually like in Back To The Future with the alternate 1985, in that when Nero came back, a new universe/timeline (call it what you want) has been created, which (of course) does not affect the prime timeline/universe, but has it’s own set of events unfolding differently than it would’ve otherwise. Right? ;-)
I even mentioned BthF in another post. So yes, that is what the film clearly said was happening. Nothing was getting “rewritten”.
@Olaf — no that is not how time travel was explained in BACK TO THE FUTURE. In that movie it worked like time travel has always worked in Star Trek — it overwote the original timeline. And that’s the problem with how it was explained in ST09 vs. how Orci insists he intended it.
As far as canon is concerned, there is nothing in the movie that confirms the time travel is working any differently than it has ever worked in Star Trek. Orci, himself, even confirmed that he intentionally made it ambiguous, so that audiences could view it as traditional time travel, like BTTF, rather than the radical departure where time travel created a parallel universe. He further admitted that because of his decision, someone in the future could write a new movie where someone went back and restored the timeline without violating any canon presented in ST09.
CC you know while I don’t completely disagree with you the REST of canon actually does prove that this wasn’t the case at all.The movie doesn’t live in a vacuum, its connected to the rest of canon as the new Picard show is confirming. Yes maybe if you only had the movies and nothing else that could be argued. But not anymore. Discovery proves it wasn’t over written. The Kelvin incident didn’t happen so thats all you need to know.
They are two universes as they always been. Clearly all the productions treat them that way because they are so this theory makes no sense anymore.
Olaf not completely because they literally traveled to a different universe as well. They didn’t just split the timeline, the Kelvin universe was there and have been there billions of years just like the prime universe was. It’s a PARALLEL universe just like when they go to the Mirror universe.
Thats why they specifically mention quantum mechanics because that theory relies heavily on the idea we live in a multiverse.
In BTTF, they didn’t travel to a parallel universe, its the same one its always been, they simply changed its timeline.
@Tiger2 and that’s where I’d disagree. Because it’s not mentioned in the book or the comics, and because it’s not neccessary. If they travel back in time and change the chain of events, they’d change the timeline, and as far as I understand the multiverse theories, in that instant another universe is *created*, but they cannot travel there in the first place. But let’s just agree on both “universes” existing side by side and not interfering with one another ;-)
@Curious Cadet but it is. Take a look at the scene in BTTF 2 in 1985A where Doc explains to Marty how the timeline diverged from the original timeline when Biff takes the DeLorean back from 2015 to 1955 and gives the Almanac to his younger self. He literally draws two parallel time streams on the whiteboard. Yes, you could argue that fixing that timeline would work in traditional ST time travel as well, but it would also with the multiverse theory.
@Olaf — But that’s not how Doc Brown explains it. I would draw the same diagram to explain it the same way. He specifically says that they have to go back in time to a point before the alteration, because the old time stream does not exist anymore. This was even discussed in detail with Orci on this site, who made it clear BTTF was not applicable to his QM MWI explanation, although he specifically wrote ST09 ambiguously so that it could be viewed either way.
The problem with discussing the multi-verse theories of time travel here, is that it’s not canon. It only exists as an off-camera explanation by the writer who originally conceived ST09 as a traditional time travel story which eradicated the Prime timeline — there’s even some dialogue left from that original script in the final production. Even the comics are not canon.
So far as I’m aware, there is not a single episode of Star Trek in official canon that combines time travel and parallel universes. The closest I think we ever get is the Defiant slipping through an “interphase” connecting to a point 100 years in the past of the ‘Mirror Universe’. But it is clear from ‘The Tholian Web’ that that is a totally different situation than what Orci is proposing for ST09.
CC sometimes you’re more stubborn then a mule lol.
Olaf, that’s not how multiverse theories actually work though. You don’t ‘create’ an entire new universe. The multiverse theory is that there are simply millions of existing universes just like ours. And if you watch the TNG episode Parallels, it makes that clear. As I said before that’s what they based these movies from. The KT is just another universe that’s always been there.
In fact there is a deleted scene that was going to show the birth of Spock BEFORE we saw Nero enter that universe. They just decided they wanted to start the film with an action scene.
But yes we can agree its two universes side by side.
Ok, thanks (to CC too), makes sense that way!
Its a month late, but you’re welcome! :)
It’s the prime time line, the destruction of Romulus is the event that led to Spock and Nero traveling back in time and creating the kelvin timeline.
The prime timeline was never altered. Spock got sucked into the past of an alternate universe.
Apparently, Den didn’t read the article before commenting.
I don’t think romulus was destroyed in the Kelvin timeline buy Vulcan was.
Which means in the Kelvin timeline (universe, really), there will be no Romulus or Vulcan by the end of the 24th Century.
@Bob — no way to know whether Romulus was destroyed in the Kelvin timeline until they show us that portion of the timeline. That said, project Genesis could evolve differently in the KU, which means that Vulcan could literally be recreated and repopulated, so that by the 25th century, it might be indistinguishable from what we know about it in the Prime Universe.
It’s the same timeline as before. Good grief.
I’m so sorry. I’ve read this article in an alternate universe.
Kelvin “timeline” was a whole other reality. Spock jumped realities and time.
This is great news. And yes, I agree that there is no way some, if not all, of the original main cast will not appear in this new series. Fandom demands it. And if they are going to take canon seriously, as they are showing here by picking up with the destruction of Romulus then all those characters, essentially, Picard’s family, have to play a role in his life twenty years later. Hurry up ALEX and get to buiding those sets and casting those actors!! 2019 won’t be here forever.
At the very least I’d be surprised if we didn’t see Crusher and find out if her and Picard do eventually marry (and possibly divorce) like ‘In All Good Things’.
I always thought Discovery should’ve been set after the events of the destruction of Romulus. Now we’re getting that series, plus it has Picard!
Exactly!
Yup.
@Robert Suarez — I like DISC exactly where it is, and everything about it. That said, I’m happy TNG fans are getting what they want, complete with the TNG characters. Sometimes, patience is a virtue. This is probably much more what you and the TNG fans wanted than yet another series set even further in the future, reinventing the wheel with a new cast of transposeable characters, and a whole new pile of technological marvels to overcome.
It really really should’ve been. Discovery would actually fit in more and make more sense in a post Nemesis era. And I honestly see no reason why it’s placed in the era it’s in other than an excuse to use TOS characters which they are now taking full advantage of.
I just hope it’s not another war story.
Clearly someone stirred the pot at Paramount/CBS, lots of news leaking out today…Viacom/CBS leaning more and more towards reunifying as a priority.
https://deadline.com/2019/01/cbs-viacom-merger-talks-renewed-ceo-search-on-hold-1202531548/
Perhaps there will be a reunification of Vulcans and Romulans in the Picard series and it will be symbolic of the reunification of Paramount and CBS. I hope they sort this before the Picard series starts production so that they can avoid this scenario of being 10% different (or whatever the figure was).
Neil, the 10% difference thing has been debunked by CBS for months now.
But yes I agree with the other part and maybe it will be a story of reuniting the Vulcans and Romulans together now that Romulus is gone. OR it could be the complete opposite and the Romlans become more isolated and paranoid than ever (remember they control a huge empire, they probably have colonized hundreds of planets) and lash out over it. It’s going to be fun to see where all this goes.
For so many of us who wanted to see the franchise go forward again, THIS is exactly the type of reason. You can shape the universe any way you like again!!
That 10% difference was never a thing.
They should have just gone with the common sense option and ignored everything from the Kelvin Timeline films, including the destruction of Romulus, which was one of the stupidest ideas that Kurtzman has ever put to paper. Given the fact that Kurtzman has made his entire career of making lowest-common denominator trash, and he is the prime showrunner now, and given that STD is an abomination to Trek, I’m willing to bet this will just be an action piece with Picard hauled out of retirement to take command of a super advanced warship to deal with the collapse of the Romulan Empire.
No one is making you watch.
Plus, if they make Countdown canon, Picard is an Ambassador and no longer in Starfleet.
There is absolutely no need whatsoever to be so incredibly rude about a writer who’s work you dislike. If you have valid concerns, then fine- let’s discuss them. But let’s not to insult somebody’s body of work. It’s uncalled for and completely out of line.
>> let’s not to insult somebody’s body of work. It’s uncalled for and completely out of line. <<
Kurtzman's "body of work" speaks for itself. I will post a list of his cinematic masterpieces here and let other fans decide for themselves if they have faith he will do justice to Captain Picard:
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen
Cowboys & Aliens
Star Trek Into Darkness
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
The Mummy remake with Tom Cruise (wrote AND directed)
Oh, and his most recent project was the TV series Salvation, which CBS promptly cancelled after only two seasons.
Salvation was awful lol. I barely got through first season. Second season got so ridiculous I stopped watching after episode 4.
Arguably, Kurtzman’s not really a great director. Sure.
That said, movies he’s written have done about $4 billion dollars of business at the global box office, and as a producer, $2 billion. That carries weight.
He seems to know *something* about what audiences want, even if it displeases purists who decry the new series and movies as being “fun and watchable.” (https://entertainment.theonion.com/trekkies-bash-new-star-trek-film-as-fun-watchable-1819594814)
Sure, he’s had a few series and pilots not get picked up or renewed, but that’s true of anyone who works in TV long enough. He started on Hercules / Xena back in 1997, that’s over twenty years of industry experience, some of it in tandem with JJ Abrams’ television empire (Alias, Lost, Fringe) and others on his own or with Bob Orci in their K/O Paper Products partnership.
Lest we forget, Gene Roddenberry only had one really big hit, Star Trek, after a moderately successful career writing for other TV shows and producing a Western series. Do you remember what it was? I don’t.
After Trek, not *one single other one of his series* got picked up. By 1977, all he had to his name were a bunch of pilots that, if they ever made it to air, were shown as movies-of-the-week. Could he be said to really understand what made audiences tick? (And as we know from the documentaries, he really didn’t have any power on TNG after season 1.)
Comparatively, Kurtzman’s had a spectacularly successful career, both with feature films and television. Given how closely he’s working with Sir Patrick, I think they have a good idea of who the character is and what the arc is going to be. I’m looking forward to it.
Regardless of what he has penned, it is does not justify rude comments about it. It’s perfectly okay to dislike his writing. It’s not okay be rude about it as the OP was.
Kurtzman writes Trek TV and films. And he’s paid to do it based on the quality of his work. What do you do? Write nasty comments on a fan blog. One requires actual talent. Can you figure out which it is?
You can say the same thing about John Logan, but I still don’t see any talent there either. Even RKO 281 is just semi-creative typing.
I’m quite fond of that film, but I agree Logan is very overrated.
RKO 281, along with RANGO, is probably the film I like best off his credits list, but I’ve read the books on Welles — probably all of them– and seen the doc it is derived from. Logan’s script is almost exactly a cutNpaste, hence the ‘semi-creative typing’ line. It indulges in one bit of fabrication, the legendary fictional encounter between Hearst and Welles in the elevator, which is a whopper told by Welles himself, and the rest is pretty much like a reader’s digest condensation.
His authorship on GLADIATOR is basically just the Commodus dialog, and his final draft on THE AVIATOR is from 7 years before the film came out, pretty much guaranteeing that the bulk of it was rewritten.
Sort of off that but trek-related, either THE WRITER or WRITERS DIGEST had an interview about 15 years back with a writer — the guy who did RUSH HOUR — in which it mentioned he did a rewrite on FIRST CONTACT just before it shot. Have often wondered if he is responsible for all the overblown Picard ‘line must be drawn here’ stuff. Has anybody ever seen actual drafts for FC, as opposed to the after-the-fact scripts that essentially reproduce the finished film?
No, because it’s canon! I didn’t love the Kelvin movies (and it looks like those may be officially done for good now if that makes you happy) but they shouldn’t avoid canon because some fans don’t like them. That’s just silly.
You don’t have to like it but you act like Star Trek hasn’t done things people hated in the past. It’s ALL still canon. And maybe they can make a really intriguing story line out of it. Glass half full and all of that.
The last major project from Kurtzman, before he became Trek emperor, was The Mummy. He co-wrote, produced, and directed the film. The Mummy received a score of 15% from Rotten Tomatoes. Two hundred and forty-one reviews declared the movie “rotten.” But how dare you, sir, criticize Alex Kurtzman? Unless you are a Hollywood power player yourself, you have zero right to do so, according to the decree of Gowron. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, you say? That’s a 19% score, but what do critics know? Chekhov said they were like so many horseflies.
That Transformers movie was the second-highest grossing film of 2009 in the US and Canada, and the fourth globally. Is it high art? No. But a small army of people worked on making a big visual spectacle that people turned out in droves to watch, and they made over $830M dollars. And the toys, games, apps and other merchandise spin up over 7 *billion* dollars for the franchise as a whole.
Now if only we could convince Optimus Prime to give us some of that money for Flint’s water pipes.
Probably, but what kind of reasoning is this? Everyone who liked the previous films likely went to see it, reviews good or bad (if not only to prove the critics wrong). So the real benchmark box office wise could only be the next one (was there one?), but even that’s tricky because they could still say “yeah ok, the last one sucked, but this one’s great”, and everybody will go again. Like with Indy 5 ;-)
How is that common sense? It’s a creative and artistic choice. If we want to talk stupid, nothing the Bad Robot people ever created rivals the Prime Universe Nexus in terms of stupidity. Yeah, I get it, you detest the BR features. That doesn’t change the fact it’s still Trek, and a lot of people do like it.
BOOM!
And there it is kids! :)
I been saying this forever and that is OF COURSE the show was going to acknowledge the Romulus explosion because its canon! It made no sense to me at all they couldn’t use it because why would you even set it up that way if you couldn’t??? The argument was just bizarre and once Orci said they were allow to use anything they wanted from the shows then that made it crystal clear it could go the other way since it was CBS own actually owned the franchise and they clearly set up the rules for how it would work in the first place. Who in their right mind would give Paramount permission to use whatever they want but then can’t use what the movies do that with their own IP??
And it will also FINALLY do another thing which is prove it’s two universes which it has always been. Some fans have argued that maybe the Prime universe no longer exist. You would think Discovery would put this ridiculous theory to bed but since it took place a century before the events of the Romulus explosion people argued those events were altered and that technically it really was the Kelvin timeline we were watching. Yeah I don’t get it either lol but I saw it time and time again including here. Now it will just confirm the prime still exists with Vulcan still around but Romulus gone forever.
So this will resolve all this nonsense about how the Kelvin universe works, which has been resolved since 2008 but some fans wanted to constantly stay stubborn about it. There are simply two timelines, nothing has been erased or ‘overwritten’ and that both universes act parallel to one another.
People are still going to complain about the series hahaha!! :)
Well of course! ;)
But at least it puts away this nonsense that the Kelvin movies wouldn’t be canon to the rest of the franchise OR that the prime was overwritten in the process. The latter was ALWAYS a non-starter but I understood people were just questioning the legal issues between the films and the shows with the former. But as I and others said, if there was an ‘issue’ from the beginning, no way would CBS have Romulus destroyed and Prime Spock erased in that matter if they couldn’t use any of that as canon. They would’ve simply told Paramount they had to just make their stories in a separate universe entirely and call it a day.
But frankly they probably should’ve did just that to avoid all the ridiculous confusion in the first place lol. And a lot of Trek fans would be less upset about tying the Kelvin universe to Prime.
I think the reason they even did the entire time traveling Spock and Nero thing was out of fear of how fans would treat a hard reboot. Adding Nimoy they felt would ‘legitimize’ their product in some way. Maybe they were right. But personally, as a Trek fan myself, I would have no problem with a hard reboot. In that movie or even with the Discovery TV show. In fact, I feel like both would have been better off doing just that.
Exactly! This is the very reason why they did it in the first place because they were afraid fans might reject it if it was a hard reboot and this was a way to sooth them over by letting them know TOS and the others still happened and that you should give this a chance because Prime Spock is there as well. I honestly thought it was a brilliant idea and that they really thought this through. But sadly by the time we got to STID and the whole Khan mess is when I thought they should’ve just avoided all of that and make it a hard reboot from the beginning. By trying to please fans and avoid canon issues they still managed to screw up their own rules. Make it a hard reboot you can tell any story you want and change any character you want.
And now the same issues are happening with Discovery, only its happening in the prime universe itself which has only made fans thrilled lol.
I just don’t understand this fear of doing a hard reboot with Star Trek? In all honesty that’s the only way people will get another legitimate and modern TOS show in the future.
BOOM is right, Tiger! Finally, we’re moving Forward in the Prime timeline.
And Thank Kahless for that! This news has oddly made me VERY excited for the new show now! We are going to get a REAL expansion of the 25th century with a destroyed Romulus and the ramifications of that. This is exciting stuff because we still have no clue where any of this is going but can change the alpha quadrant in ways we haven’t seen since the Dominion showed up.
“So this will resolve all this nonsense about how the Kelvin universe works, which has been resolved since 2008 but some fans wanted to constantly stay stubborn about it. There are simply two timelines, nothing has been erased or ‘overwritten’ and that both universes act parallel to one another.”
Technically it doesn’t resolve this question as a future KT movie could still go down the route of telling a story in which the timeline is reset. Given today’s other big news such a movie doesn’t seem likely but the option still remains. Nevertheless, basing the show off of this event does effectively end the argument over the canon status of the last 3 movies and perhaps more importantly confirms that the prime timeline continues to exist after this event. I’d argued on here that I didn’t think they would directly address this onscreen early in the show but I’m happy to be proved wrong. It will be interesting now to see if any of the events from the Countdown comic series actually make it into the show as well. As I recall Picard, was an ambassador in that and obviously many have pondered if that might be his role in the new show. If Picard is indeed a diplomat then it would certainly make sense that the dissolution of the Romulan Star Empire would have a profound impact on him. I would also be very surprised if they didn’t find a way to have Brent Spiner at least cameo In the new show so Data still being around would seem another part of the comic that could likely be used.
I’m genuinely looking forward to finding out more about the new show and speculating about how they might go forward and with that in mind I’m going to set the ball rolling. Given Patrick Stewart’s well known political views and the fact that he and the producers have spoke about how the new series will comment on today’s world I could see the destruction of Romulus being an allegory for the collapse of the Soviet Union and the impact this hashad on the other world powers. Obviously such a show could be very topical and could address global issues like Brexit and Russian interference in western democracy.
Well yes if they do a story where the reset it then that’s different. But as of now, THIS is what the universe(s) are and has been since 2009. And considering the news we got about the next Kelvin movie, I wouldn’t be too shocked the last movie we will ever see of those films happened with Beyond. Could be wrong, but…
As far as the Picard show, I obviously was VERY excited about the notion they would use the Romulus explosion in the story line. As you know, I was always certain it would be acknowledged for all the reasons I laid out, BUT I also thought maybe they would just try and skirt around it for awhile or just acknowledge it offhand and basically ignore it. So to know they will deal with it head on is amazing news for sure.
And I also think Kurtzman kind of has something to prove in the sense he wants those movies to matter to the overall franchise. That film started his Star Trek career. And why I said I would be shocked the guy who came up with the basis of Romulus exploding would want to completely avoid it. I always imagined it would be the opposite and that turned out to be true. Now we have to see how they will handle it but this is an exciting turn to see REAL changes for the alpha quadrant in the 24/25th century. It would be great if Picard is an Ambassador dealing with the fall out! All those issues you mentioned would be great to explore. And it won’t just be Picard sitting in a rocking chair with his archaeology exhibits. ;)
Man it is a wild a crazy news day for Star Trek lol!
Yes Tiger, you have always been certain that these events were firmly cemented in canon and today’s news supports this. For my part I’ve never really disagreed with your logic that Kurzman wouldn’t want to undermine the aspects of the lore that he was responsible for, rather it was the studio politics I questioned and whether or not it would be practical for them to explicitly address this incident on screen. We still don’t know how specific they’re going to be but it’s clear from the premise that the intent is for the Kelvin films to be considered canon and until proven otherwise we can only assume, as Bob Orci asserted, that both universes run parallel to each other. As much as I like the idea of a final movie that resets the timeline ‘Yesterday’s Enterprise’ style I’d also love to see a future Star Trek show crossover into that universe. I can’t see it happening on the Picard show but it could work on DSC and it could be a fun as a stand-alone adventure.
I don’t think we will see a crossover into the Kelvin universe until they at least unite both the films and shows but as the last year has been proving I guess we shouldn’t assume anything lol.
I think a lot will depend on what is Paramount’s thinking in terms of the future of the Kelvin Timeline. Even though they aren’t making a movie soon they still create other media around it. They released the Klingon game just a few months. So its possible we will see more of the Kelvin universe and a crossover but I have a feeling that’s way down the line if ever.
No, I’m not suggesting that they might do a crossover, just that I wouldn’t be opposed to it. I personally don’t think anything like that would be viable unless the merger between CBS and Paramount is revived.
Yeah I feel the same.
@Corinthian7 — Unless they specifically clarify it on screen, then it will be just as nebulous as Orci intentionally made the films. We have no way of knowing whether the Kelvin timeline represents another universe or a timeline which is overwriting the Prime timeline, without it being spoken on screen. Romulus being absent is no guarantee as that could have happened in either timeline. Even Vulcan’s presence could be explained by a rebooted timeline, as you allude to a future KU installment, or it could even be Genesis as appropriated by the Vulcans to restore their homeworld over 100 years after its destruction.
Anyone saying that there’s only one explanation has no proof from canon to back it up.
Curious Cadet, give it up dude. This is all fiction, its not real. It’s been confirmed by the writers for literally years now. It doesn’t have to be spoken on screen, we have eyes lol. If Romulus is destroyed on the Picard show but Vulcan is standing like it’s always been then that confirms exactly what we been told from day one. Your explanation is too convoluted and is unnecessary to the story. And you just included the Genesis device. Do you not see how convoluted your theory is when you have to add the Genesis device to explain how it’s possible?
What is the point? Seriously, what would it even accomplish if this was true? Do you think this is all a rouse or they are trying to trick you for some reason? In ten years Abrams is going to say “got you!!” It’s two universes, always has been. But this is sadly what happens when some fans take fiction a bit TOO seriously.
There has been no “reset” of the timeline. Picard and company just move on like they did with Romulus and Spock gone. Pine Kirk & Co go on themselves too (even if there are no more features) Both exist at the same time. It’s really not that hard.
^^This. Always this.
I’ve never understood how so many people just can’t get their heads around this. It’s so simple, and (to me) was a very original way to maintain continuity. One of the best things about the 09′ film.
Yes, no matter how people feel about the films itself, the way they set up another universe while keeping the other one in tact was very original and very Star Trek. I still think its a brilliant idea and why I don’t have an issue with other shows being rebooted because Trek is now a shared multiverse and it just opens up all kinds things you can do with it.
The issue with fans like me with the Kelvin Universe is that they didn’t take the idea far enough. Instead of repeating TWOK they should’ve made THEIR universe feel bigger giving us completely new avenues to take these characters in, not smaller.
Wow. He’ll sign off on any canon defying storyline that anyone brings to the table, but the one piece of lore that must be maintained are the bits of lore that he is responsible for.
Who is “he”?
I assume he’s talking about Alex Kurtzman who helped create the Kelvin timeline with the Romulus explosion and in charge of the new Picard show.
Oh, do explain the “canon defying” storylines you are referring to! I have yet to see one!
Have you watched Discovery?
But what are you specifically talking about??? We can’t read your mind. ;)
Yes, I have. And my favorite blood sport these days is shooting down what people claim are canon violations…
Not enthused by the Kelvin connection, but love the one with Chabon. Still hopeful.
No Kelvin connection. Destruction of Romulus is in the Prime timeline.
Very very compelling. So thrilled they’re going to pick up after the events in ‘Countdown.’ I’m not into comic book tie-in’s but back before the 09’ film, I found it extremely helpful and appreciated it. How anyone ever got confused about the Kelvin and Prime timelines is beyond me personally, but…I see there were plenty who just didn’t get
it. Anyway, can’t wait for this.
TNG’s best qualities were its light,hopeful and warm nature. I fear a horror story of endless conflict, strife and misery with this, and all in the name of lame brain flavour of the month “edginess”.
Or they could go in the direction that you suggest and do a story about how Picard helps a shattered Romulan Empire find peace with the Federation.
You just know they’d do that.
This is exciting news and exactly what I want to see out of new Star Trek. Can’t wait for the new series.
Is someone going to give the writers a lesson in middle-school level astrophysics so that they don’t create anything else incredibly stupid like a supernova that somehow “threatens the entire galaxy” and “suddenly” destroys a planet light-years away some few seconds after the explosion and without any warning? And while we’re at it, can someone come up with a rational explanation for the aforementioned nonsense? kthxbye
Star Trek Online took a pass at it: The Romulans discovered surviving members of the Iconian race and tried to use them and their tech. Didn’t work out so well for the Romulans.
The disaster was brought on by Iconian technology wasn’t a supernova, but nobody on the outside looking in had a better name for it considering it appeared to be the Hobus star exploding. Everyone’s lack of understanding led them to make wild and incorrect assumptions about what to expect from it.
The Iconians went on to become the big bad of the game, working behind the scenes to disrupt the peace and set every faction in the galaxy against each other because they could actually be enough of a threat to the few remaining Iconians if they united against them.
It works for me.
Just been reading new theories of the fabric of space time. Read a few compelling peer reviewed articles suggesting that gravity is the result of the granulation of space, making it composed of fractions, and as it turns out, fractions may travel much faste than light, meaning gravitational effects maybe faster than light.
Etnagleme net also already proves that the speed of light is not an absolute barrier.
Writing without my glasses. Meant “entanglement.”
Hey Bob, what do you think about all the news? I’m guessing you like that the Picard show will use the Romulus story line but I guess you aren’t surprised. And sadly it does sound like the Kelvin universe is shelved for now. I can only imagine the emotional roller coaster stuff like this brings for a writer.
Will be cool if they exist in Countdown sequel. Was lucky to be part of a couple of fun Trek movies.
I know you and Kurtzman have separated company wise but I would love to see you working on one of the new shows. Seriously. With so much Trek going on now and you guys did so many shows together along with the films is it completely out of the cards?
Ok, you don’t have to answer that lol. Thinking out loud.
Not in the cards. You can’t go home again, as they say. Plus, I’ve served my tours of duty. I have nothing to add.
Thanks for answering anyway. It’s still too bad. I just have a feeling out of the two of you you were definitely the bigger fan. But as you said you can’t go home again.
All I keep thinking is that, without any context to how he used it, dissolution does not equal destruction. And I would say one is a more accurate description of what happened than the other…
I don’t think they would have to go into great detail about why the Romulans have been weakened, what with the exploding star, Spock, Nero, and that whole mess. It’s been 20 years. They could simply show they’re weak now, and move on from there with new stories.
Also, what are the legal concerns here? Is CBS even allowed to make direct references to the Kelvin movies?
Sorry, I meant 12 years since the destruction of Romulus, not 20.
Its been made VERY clear CBS can use any reference from the movies it wants because A. CBS controls the franchise, not the other way around and B. The movies, which I don’t know why this gets ignored, has used every reference from every show in their films, from Enterprise to Voyager. So it would be ridiculous the company that literally owns it all couldn’t reference the movies, as now evidenced.
Easy, killer, I’m only asking.
And it was answered in this very article.
Well, I guess I missed it.
Look, I’m a casual fan of this stuff. I don’t know every in and out of Star Trek these days, especially the legal. I was simply asking what the relationship was between CBS and Paramount concerning references. Dial it back a notch, okay.
Ok, I guess sometimes I forgot not everyone reads everything.
Canon is shared between the two. Always has when together or apart.
@Tumbler — yes, the license between CBS and Paramount allows both parties to make references to, and incorporate canon the others create, since it’s all derivative from the same source owned and licensed by CBS. However, the depiction of unique aspects of that canon may require additional payments to the producers, writers, etc. depending on their particular contracts. While CBS can reference aspects from the KU, depicting a character created for it, or using any copyrighted designs and visuals would likely result in royalty payments for Bad Robot and other participants, something which CBS is likely to avoid at all costs.
Hope they say Spock somehow made it back to prime universe and didn’t really die in the stupid JJ universe where nobody knows what happened to him. For that to be his fate was just insulting.
oy… that’s silly… romulus blew up… he went back in time to kelvin… prime continues and kelvin was born… let it go… trek fans need to stop hating everything
@denny — there’s nothing yet in canon confirming that the Kelvin timeline isn’t overwriting the Prime timeline. And there’s nothing silly about wanting a beloved character to die in a manner befitting his legacy. It’s the same reason fans decry the death of James Kirk on some unimportant planet, crushed under a bridge. This is not how we like to see our heroes go out.
Bridge on the Captain….ugh. That was a sad day in the theater for me back in ’94.
From what I read you can thank Shatner for “bridge on the captain”. Allegedly, he ad-libbed it.
Uhh what do you mean nobody knows what happened to him? Maybe he just…died? That happens, ya know.
What does it matter?? Its not like Nimoy is ever playing him again either way. I don’t get WHY there is so much hate for the Kelvin movies. No they are not perfect but they weren’t any worse than other bad Trek out there either. Were all the TOS and TNG films great? No, but no one is saying they shouldn’t exist either.
the kelvin movies are pretty good… really good… you dont have to compare them to bad trek movies like nemesis insurrection generations final frontier etc… they’re just good… respectful movies… there’s millions of young people now who know who capt kirk is who didn’t really know before… the guys who wrote those loved trek and it shows… never understood the dislike… they are super well made… i can’t imagine it’s the last we see of the kelvin treks… the shelved word was used by one writer on deadline describing a different but related story and it’s been rehashed and studied over a 1000 times today… but you never know with paramount… it’s been 40 years of disorganization
I love two out of the three (09 and Beyond). Better ratio than the four TNG movies have.
Precisely. I felt The Voyage Home was just embarrassing Trek on EVERY level. I would prefer to pretend it never happened. Yet it was the flick that explained how Kirk got busted down to Captain. So I am forced to accept that it’s events are canon. I will say how bad the film was to anyone who will listen but I will not claim the events in the film never happened in their universe.
i like how it all connects to the kelvin timeline while being in the prime timeline. it puts a rubber stamp on kelvin while keeping life alive in prime. both camps are happy. in the kelvin timeline, romulus still might get destroyed in 2387 but they will be warned now and the people will be saved… plus has anyone looked into how the destruction of vulcan and the existence of nero affected Romulus?
and trek fans are notorious for disliking anything that alters course so to speak… they freak out at different… this sounds like it’s gonna tonally, structurally a different show… set phasers for not to be stunned when the fanboys flip out
I agree, I think this is a nice validation of the fact that the KT ‘exists’ and is ‘canon’ and even if its adventures have reached the end of their screen life, the events we’ve seen unfold have been properly acknowledged and respected by the powers that be.
“i like how it all connects to the kelvin timeline while being in the prime timeline. it puts a rubber stamp on kelvin while keeping life alive in prime. both camps are happy.”
Ironically that was suppose to be the whole point. They wanted to reboot TOS again and finally make films of that show with a rebirth of sorts using those iconic characters in their prime again. On the other side they didn’t want to erase the original show and all the other shows like TNG and VOY that fans grew up with so the old universe would still stand and run as its always have with a new universe to play in. And top of that you have that great symbolic connection to both via Prime Spock whose very use very presence gives this universe credibility.
So now you have two universes of possibilities and everyone will be happy because they are getting more Star Trek and no one will ever be angry about it or launch into 100 theories why the other doesn’t actually exist. It’s laid out as plain as day of two separate universes and completely in canon to each other while doing their own thing.
What can go wrong? ;)
@denny — I don’t think we know any of that yet. Again, it may be Kurtzman’s intent, just as it was Orci’s to create the KU, but so far it has not been cemented in canon. Orci and Kurtzman’s first draft originally had the Kelvin timeline overwriting the Prime timeline, something they changed for the final film, and Orci came up with his alternate universe theory, while intentionally making the film ambiguous so a traditional Star Trek time travel narrative could be inferred. Until that’s resolved explicitly by on-screen canon narrative, then nothing has changed.
How will Romulus be warned? The events that happened to it as described by Spock in ST ’09 still happen in the prime time line. No more Romulans will be saved that were already saved.
Of this, I am glad. This means we know the Kelvin films weren’t a waste. They served their purpose to reinvigorate the franchise, and now we have more Trek content in the pipeline than we could’ve ever dreamed. I’m gonna take a wild hunch here and say that the 2020s are gonna be the decade of Trek’s renaissance.
Agreed! Even if there are no more Kelvin films, they will no longer live in isolation and feel like a bigger part of the franchise, even if just a little.
It’s sort of like Enterprise feeling like the black sheep because it wasn’t referenced outside of its own show. But then the Kelvin films and Discovery came and made that show more connected so it feels more integral to the universe even if we never see those characters again. And I’m sure the Picard show will reference a lot of Discovery too. This is how a shared universe is suppose to work or even in Trek’s case, a shared multiverse. ;)
Chris Pine can kiss my ass.
From everybody in the Prime Universe’s perspective, Spock just disappeared: never to be seen or heard from again. Them is probably One of the big events in Picards life since he and Spock were bros.
Good, the Romulans deserved it. I’m glad the events of the Countdown comic and the movie are canon. It’s a great premise for the show to feed off of as well.
Must have guest stars:
Gates McFadden as Dr. Beverly Picard
John deLancie as Q
Whoopi Goldberg as Guinan
Agreed. These are about the three that I would request, too. They’re all that’s needed. …And the most logical, both narratively and to generate attention. Frakes will probably direct an ep., but I could just see him doing a ten second cameo somewhere. The rest I could take or leave (lovely people, but like Stewart seems to feel, I’d like this show to be different.)
At the end of Nemesis, Riker and Troi were going off in the Titan to Romulas for diplomatic purposes so hopefully some of the events following that might shape where we are at with Federation/Romulan relations too and provide a reason to have them in the show rather than just a ‘getting the band back together’ scenario to get all of the TNG cast back in.
Again.. Please no Q and no bartender Picard buddy. They do that and you know the show can’t help but be terrible.
This is Starting to Sound Great.
Because of the strange relationship between Paramount’s films and CBS’s TV series, I have to ask: Did Kurtzman actually say that the ‘end of the Romulan Empire’ was in fact due to the destruction of Romulus as seen in ST09? Most of what I have read, including TrekMovie, quotes Kurtzman as saying “Picard’s life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire.” Then, the articles all go on to assume this refers to the catalyst for the events in ST09 (Hobus star explodes and destroys Romulus, etc.), to which Kurtzman was also attached. If it ends up being something else (Spock’s attempts at Unification come to fruition, for example), and Romulus and Remus are still out there, it would biow canon out of the water. Of course, that also begs the question as to whether the events in Nemesis can be referenced as they occurred. I guess we’ll know soon enough.
Romulus blew up in the prime universe…
@AJinMOscow — that’s my question exactly. So far, it seems like Kurtzman is being clever with his reveal, and the reporters are inferring the connection with the destruction of Romulus. My question is, if Kurtzman intends for the destruction of Romulus to be part of canon for this show, then why not come right out and say it? Maybe he did and we’re just not getting a clear accounting of this story by the reporting parties.
That said, if Romulus is still there, it doesn’t necessarily blow canon out of the water. It just means there’s another explanation.
All in good time. The show won’t even premiere until the end of this year. They are slowly releasing the bread crumbs. But this is actually the first story point we have even been told about the show. I wasn’t expecting to hear anything about it until they started casting it which will probably be in another few months.
And eventually we will hear what TNG, VOY or DS9 characters will show up in guest spots. And we know they will. It’s just a matter of who.
Oh yeah I’m pretty sure we are going to get a lot of characters from that era. If they want to get more subscribers to AA it only make sense to bring back other characters from the shows.
Imagine what would have happened to the Roman Empire if Rome blew up….
People seem to forget that TNG and the prime universe has an ace up its sleeve named Q. If the destruction of Romulus really needs to be altered, it can be done via Q’s intervention. I think Q can be the big “reset” button if the producers are willing to go to that direction, but I don’t think this will happen until Kurtzman leaves or someone else takes over Trek.
True, but I’m going to push back a little. And only because Q has never actually altered the timeline in its natural progression. Yes he has altered reality MANY times but only temporarily and that’s usually to test Picard in some fashion. He has always set things back to as it was before.
And we have to remember the Q does have rules and protocols like everyone, they clearly just can’t go around altering whatever they want in the universe. That’s exactly why Amanda in the episode True Q couldn’t just live her life as a human and keep her Q powers because they were afraid she would just change things on a whim, even if its to help others. Q didn’t even send Voyager home and when he proposed the idea to Janeway, it was only proposed by the continuum itself if she ruled in his favor of letting the other Q live.
The only way I can see Q undoing Romulus if it was their fault in some way it was destroyed in the first place. And I will say IF they go direction its not hard considering a star went super nova out of nowhere. Now who can create a super nova on a whim? Hmm?
So its possible but I don’t see them just snapping their fingers. Totally unrelated, but man I LOVE discussing 24th century canon again and all the new possibilities we have now. I didn’t think ANY of this would be real just six months ago and here we are.
OK this is funny, I was so excited reading the bit about Romulus being used for the new show I just realized I never finished reading the rest of the article lol. And I just read Kurtzman didn’t rule out a possibility of other TNG characters showing up!
Wow this is pretty big news in itself. It doesn’t mean any are appearing but he basically confirmed they can! Which probably translates to they will. ;)
This is the guy who has straight up denied Khan was showing up in STID or Spock showing up on Discovery. So if couldn’t even try and deliver a half ass denial they won’t appear its all but sure to happen now! I really want Riker back hopefully first season. I love that guy!
“Picard’s life was radically altered by the dissolution of the Romulan Empire.”
I like this key point of Kurtzman’s description. If this new show has even a partial focus on what remains of the Romulans, I’ll be very happy. It would be cool if their survivors were recurrent characters, such as Donatra (Dina Meyer), who is perhaps now the refugees’ ambassador to Earth, or perhaps has remained in contact with Picard for all these years.
My point is … I’d like to (finally) see a Star Trek series with Romulans as recurring characters. Maybe the refugees can be taken in on a Vulcan colony world while the long process of reunification runs its course. Lots of possibilities here.
As for potential guest stars, I can’t imagine Kurtzman isn’t considering a return visit from Q (John de Lancie), who would, of course, age himself appropriately to match Picard’s current appearance. Just when we thought we’d seen the last of Q …
So many possibilities. Looking forward to whatever shakes out in the next several months.
Has Michael Chabon officially changed his name to “Pulitzer-winning Michael Chabon”?
No but this is the movie/tv business, where hype is order of the day. Arthur C. Clarke once wrote that big studio typewriters must have a single key to press in order to type, ‘never before in the history of motion pictures.’ And this was decades before anybody was using F3 to do that.
You know, if they’re not gonna bring back Michael Dorn as Worf for at least one mini-arc, I’m gonna eat my shoe! The man’s been rooting for Star Trek’s return to TV for longer than almost anyone else – he deserves it!
I hope the comics “stays” canon, it’s one of the best tie-in I’ve read.
I personally look forward to seeing as many TNG crew members show up as possible (where it makes sense in the story) throughout the series. This is going to be great!
I´m not sure I´m too exited when star trek locks itself too much inside interstellar politics….
Don´t get me wrong, I´m not one of those “can anyone remember when we used to be explorers”-ONLY fans…. I´m in for “all of the above”, but all of the above menas, precisely, ALL of the above… That´s what was best in TNG…
Just to be clear, this statement in the article, “While not considered official canon, the Star Trek: Countdown comic prequel to the 2009 Star Trek film also showed…” is incorrect. The countdown comics WERE/ARE canon.
The destruction of Vulcan in the Kelvin timeline needed to be explored in the films, and not just the comics. It would have given the franchise some weight. The Prime universe is a perfect place to take up the challenge, which gives me hope. It’s exactly what all the producers who had pitched Trek in the last 20 years had hoped for — something a bit dystopian — while still putting the Roddenberry idealism up front. May they have the budget they need!
Exactly. I think this is the PERFECT setup for a post-Nemesis series. That movie ended with the Romulans becoming potential allies, and PICARD will begin with their Empire falling. A perfect start to TNG’s continuation.
I think people who don’t like this idea were just hoping the Romulan supernova wouldn’t have happened so they could de-legitimize the Kelvin movies.
i have so many problems with Nemesis, but if this is what they are doing, then it will all make sense in retrospect.
I think in a way its great and if true will tie in Nemesis, Unification and the 09 movie all together. It’s pretty crazy a story line that started nearly 30 years ago on TNG could be picked up again with all the crazy events that has happened since. This is why Star Trek is so much fun!
Yes that’s basically it for a lot of people. They hate the Kelvin movies so much they want them phased out of canon completely and now some are angry the show is doing the opposite. I have seen (not here) some TRULY angry posts over it lol. The whole thing is just bizarre to me, did they really think these movies weren’t canon?? They used Nimoy specifically for this purpose alone. I just always assumed once we got another post Nemesis show or film, the Romulus explosion would be a big part of it, because it can tell an amazing story. They can do something like TUC or go the complete opposite way and have the Romulans defiant as ever.
I just love the fact we are going to see the alpha quadrant changed in a major way and all the possibilities it could bring. This is EXACTLY why so many fans want a post Nemesis show, because everything is wide open again. We have no clue what’s coming next or how it will be resolved because the entire situation is new and that’s exciting.
I watched one video last night where the person was actually physically crying over this news. They went on about canon, but clearly knew nothing of it.
There is one woman on Youtube I usually watch who LOATHES the Kelvin movies and especially Discovery. She make multiple videos on it every week. Judging by her reaction to hearing the Picard show will use the Romulus explosion you would think someone was literally committing murder.
There are certainly things I don’t like and yes some things I wish wasn’t canon either but calm down, its still just a TV show end of the day. If you are this emotionally fractured over fictional story telling then maybe its time you should re-evaluate your life.
And yes it is funny so many people who are upset about it doesn’t seem to understand it’s not contradicting canon, it’s doing the complete opposite. Romulus happened in the Prime universe, not the Kelvin! I don’t understand why this is so hard to get?
True that. I never cared for previously unannounced Spock siblings but then there was Sybok. And now Burnham. I don’t think either were good creatively but now they are a part of Spock. Nothing we can do about it.
Funny thing, Kirk’s brother never resurfaced after that OPERATION ANNIHILATE. In TFF Kirk mentioned he lost a brother once. At first I thought it was a reference to Sam. But it wasn’t. As a fan I was thinking Kirk should have said something like, “I’ve lost two brothers. I was lucky enough to get one back.” But I guess that would have been confusing to non fans out there. The kid on the side of the road in ST09 was supposed to be Kirk’s older brother Sam. In a deleted scene we see him storm off, which is why he’s walking along the road. A different name was dubbed in for the finished product. So no mention of Sam in the KU either. Which I found unfortunate. Would have been a nice acknowledgement.
@Afterburn — the Romulan supernova could happen or not, and still wouldn’t confirm or deny the Kelvin movies. Unless we’re given an explanation about a possible destruction of Romulus (and so far I have not seen anyone confirm that’s what Kurtman actually said), then there’s no way to know whether it was destroyed as presented in ST09, or not. Likewise, if there was a Supernova that almost destroyed Romulus in this series, which could also have a major impact on the Empire, it could have been successfully stopped in this timeline.
Off topic but happy (or sad) last day of filming of TOS! It feels like just yesterday we were celebrating the 50th of its premiere and now 50 years ago today the show wrapped for good. And look where we are now: five Trek series in the works
This series may do to Picard what The Last Jedi did to Luke Skywalker.
That’d be awesome, I loved Luke in that movie.
Except Mark Hamil made it known that he was not happy with what happened to Luke in TLJ. Whereas Stewart is part of the process regarding what is happening to Picard.
I wasn’t happy with how they handled Luke. Mark Hamill wasn’t thrilled about it either. A lot of fans were REALLY unhappy with how they handled Luke.
I admit, it was a little off putting for me when I saw it. But I liked the film a lot better when I saw it on disc a 2nd time.
I had the opposite effect, rewatching TLJ made me like it a lot less actually
Oh let’s hope it doesn’t.
What they did to Luke was not the issue with that film. I welcome them changing the character of Picard, as long as– like Luke– he has an epiphany in the end that turns him back into a “hero.”
Have him make an awesome sacrifice? Would Q play the role of Yoda in that aspect?
Hmmm….
GIANT disappointment,
just when I thought trek was going to get back to Prime and continue on with a jump into the future. It gets dragged down from the start by being based on JJ trek. I shouldn’t be surprised considering the man in charge now.
I’m fine with the JJ verse, it’s own timeline/universe, But I don’t buy anything shown in them as prime trek. I view discovery the same way. Fine shows, but not Prime trek.
This is the most narrow view anyone could take. Good job for setting the bar high for criticism!
The amount of errors in the posters’ own head-canon is enough to make me dizzy.
“Head-Canon” is a form of mental illness.
A 34-page document is all in. Interesting….
In the full article they say that Patrick Stewart originally asked for a 3-page pitch and they ended up putting together a 34-page document instead.
I really don’t understand why the destruction of Romulus has such big ramifications for the rest of the galaxy. Last I checked they’re still the enemies right? Why would it have any bearing on Picard or anyone else outside of the Romulans?
Also as much as I’d love to see Picard back I have no hope for the new Picard series. It’s just gonna end up having the same issues that the Kelvin films and Discovery have cause modern Trek is shit, not to mention I’ll bet money that they’ll shoehorn some politics in there and try to take jabs at Trump like STD did.
A lot of the fans here and in other franchises like Star Wars have the same issues, you’re willing to accept shitty entries in the franchise out of desperation instead of holding the creators accountable and ensuring that they make decent content. You’re all like “just be grateful that we’re getting something” instead of demanding better which is a shame.
Oh! I can answer this one! I play STO!
The homeworld of Romulus getting destroyed means a large amount of the population has been removed. Everyone knows something, and depending on how much they’re focusing on the comics AK wrote, the Federation and Vulcan dragging its feet meant it was destroyed.
So we have a large group of people without a central government. That means colonies that once were small now entering the galactic stage alone. This could result military commanders taking power by force to reform the Empire, while others unhappy with the political situation seek refuge with the Federation or Klingons.
In short, a large empire falling means refugees and rogue commanders that are completely unpredictable, which might mean that a Captain who dealt with them years ago may be called back as a consultant to deal with them again.
Also I like Discovery and the Kelvin movies because I have different tastes than you, not because I’m desperate. TNG will always be there when I want to watch it, but I enjoy new takes on what came before.
“Demanding better”…. I don’t even know where to begin.
This was a great post! It really sums up of the ramifications of such a large Empire falling, especially one that has been in place pre-Federation. How they will deal with the fallout could lead to a lot of great stories and I think could really build on Picard’s story and where he is at this part of his life.
The whole Legacy of Romulus expansion was about this, after all.
The destruction of one of the major galactic powers after a failed Federation attempt to stop it wouldn’t have any effect on the Federation, the Klingon Empire, or anyone else? That makes no sense at all. They don’t exist in isolation from one another.
The Romulan Star Empire is one of the big three, it’s fall would have some serious ramifications. We’re talking about power vacuums, and threats taking advantage of the chaos. There’s going to be military and civilian groups claiming rightful leadership. It’s a very dangerous quagmire, with threats of civil wars.
I love how people are praising this show before it comes out and it’s produced by Alex Kurzman… yet people say they don’t like him as a producer because of Discovery and don’t want him on board
First off, people can recognize just because you hate one thing by someone doesn’t mean you will hate everything. Secondly, not one person creates all of it. Kurtzman like Berman before him and Roddenberry before him all had OTHER people who had a hand in creating these stories. And why some were better than others because there are a LOT of factors that are involved in. DS9 is considered a superior and much better show to VOY although Berman over saw and created both shows. Why, because they both had different premises, demands, bosses and writers over seeing them (and I LIKE Voyager a lot but DS9 is my jam).
My only point is no one is going to know how a show turns out until we watch it, period. A lot of us are Star Trek fans who just hope for the best WHILE still being critical. I have a lot of hope the Picard show will be good while I have also criticized Discovery for many things (and make NO apologies for it) because as stated above none of these shows are a monolith. And maybe the Picard show will be bad but is it wrong to just hope you will enjoy it?
I don’t understand people who say they love Star Trek, say they want more Star Trek and yet constantly assuming the worse about ANYTHING that gets made. When did fandom become like this?
From the other article where Kurtzman talked about taking over as showrunner of Discovery it sounds like he generally doesn’t want to micro-manage all the shows. He sees his job more as an overall guiding figure, but each show is run by the respective showrunner. I don’t know if this is comparable to Rick Berman’s position or if Kurtzman has an even more hands-off approach. So Kurtzman is part of the team creating the Picard show but someone else will actually run the show. It might be similar to Ira Steven Behr running DS9 even though it was co-created by Berman and Piller.
Yes and thats a good thing. In fact he was already doing that for Discovery. He was the one whose job it was to come up with another show entirely but he left that up to Fuller and then obviously let him come up with all the ideas although they both have credit for creating it. And then when Fuller got the boot he let the other two show runners take over and decided the direction for the rest of the season. He clearly gave input but he let them create the season however they wanted. Now that they left he’s now in complete control of Discovery but that’s clearly out of circumstance. He said it himself he never planned to be running the show but its clearly having issues keeping a show runner.
And my guess is with the Picard show it will be a similar situation, he’s letting those guys create it how they want. I don’t think his involvement or lack of it means the show will necessarily be better or not but it seems clear these shows are going to have many different voices and simply not his, so it at least they will feel different from each other.
I think we are both in agreement on this. However, a number of commenters on this blog suggest that the Picard show cannot be good because Kurtzman is involved in it, for the reason that Kurtzman is also involved in Discovery and they think that one sucks.
Bring back Dina Meyer as Commander Donatra.
The Theme song should be a version of Picard’s Theme from “The Inner Light”.
Oh this is going to be so bad. The destruction of Romulus is a GIANT plot-whole in the JJ-movies. Even we are TODAY able to detect if a star is about to go supernova. I don’t like this at all and I don’t want an radically altered Picard…
I love Picard the way he was in TNG. He is my “TV-dad” and I think they will do the same to him like they did with Luke Skywalker in “The Last Jedi” –> They will bring him back only to get more subscriptions to CBS AllAccess, make us hate him and maybe even kill him in the end of the show.
I was hoping for a continuing of what TNG stood for, not for a Discovery-like show, with Klingons looking like Orcs and a Picard so different, we are all going to hate him.
TBH: I want Rick Berman back and I am so glad I’ve got the Orville.
You have to think about it from the perspective of the actor…why would Stewart want to return to the character he played for *seven years* and *four feature films*…and just do more of the same? Acting is an art, it’s *creative* work, at its heart, and Stewart, as exactly quoted by Kurtzman, was not interested unless they could do something different with this.
My bet is that he starts off bitter and disollusioned, but the journey of S1 is indeed Picard’s journey of finding himself again, and by the end of S1, he returns to the inspirational Picard we once knew.
Why should I see it from the actors perspective? I love Picard the way he IS! Of course it is more interesting for Stewart to do something different, but as far as I see it, he should not have done it. Why change something that you love just for the sake of change?? Especially the reason they are providing here sounds so forced.
If they would have said, that the events of First Contact altered him, it would have been plausible, as we see Picard already changing in the movies to someone more “violent”.
In my opinion, the only way this could work is, if everything in this show is about the Borg, as he is still seeking for revenge and wants to destroy them once and for all. To get a feeling of what I mean, please watch this video, as it explains it perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW5gLgiZhME
And that has nothing to do with Romulus.
“Of course it is more interesting for Stewart to do something different,”
Not only is it more interesting for Stewart but it is more interesting for much of the audience.
You and I want different things. I really HOPE Picard is not the same perfect man from the series. I want him to have some sort traumatic event change him. I want him to be bitter over something. In other words, I want him to be HUMAN. Interesting. It’s hard to root for someone who is already perfect. I’m no fan of S1 Discovery but at least they tried to do something different. They failed miserably. But they tried.
Well the thing is: I miss Star Trek. The way it was. The optimistic and cerebral way. I don’t need dark Star Trek.
And I just fear that they will pull off some forced character change on Picard. Something that is not deeply rooted in him.
I totally agree with you on DSC S01 – that was a huge failure. And I am fearing that this will happen to Picard, too. At least I hope, that they keep the visual esthetics of the 24th century that we all know and love.
I’m still cautiously optimistic for this first sequel series since Voyager 20 years ago, despite them utilizing the tired trope of planetary genocide yet again, which I do not approve of (be it Vulcan or Romulus). The good thing that could come out of it, though, is that this new series should focus much more heavily than any previously on the underutilized and (to me) much more fascinating Romulans instead of the Klingons, the latter of which we have really seen enough of in the past 30 years!
To be fair we all knew the events of Trek 09 would be addressed if they ever returned to the Prime Timeline but I just don’t think the whole show is a good idea.
Can’t wait to see the new picard series. Will we see a new Enterprise ? Oh god….I hope we get to see Captain Riker on the USS TITAN….at least in a two parter. And if they bring in Data…mo cap…and have Mr Spiner provide the voice. Come on.,..Data can be pulled of with CGI. Remember….androids are not suppose to age.
It would be cool to have a story arc where the president of the united federation of planet is corrupt ( Trump ) and he is assassinated. ( God …only if someone could take that jackazz out for real ! )