ST09 Creative

Chicago Con: Shatner Says He Is Meeting With JJ Abrams

Creation Chicago Star Trek 40th Anniversary Convention: Sept 8th: Shatner & NimoyThe hall was filled to capacity to see Leonard Nimoy and William Shatner. Nimoy took the stage first and reminisced about for about 20 minutes, taking time to discuss the origin of his book ‘I am Not Spock’. Then Shatner came on and in his usual energetic way, shared memories of Star Trek, and going on to volunteer several interesting discussions about Star Trek XI. Shatner mentioned that he had spoken with JJ Abrams just one day earlier. [Editor’s note, TrekMovie.com reported last week that Shatner and Nimoy said they were expecting calls from Star Trek XI producer Abrams] Shatner went on to say that he and Abrams will be meeting some time this week. He talked very positively about Abrams, believing that he will be able to create a great version of Star Trek. He also jokingly discussed how very young Abrams is. Shatner’s enthusiastic comments certainly connoted that Kirk and Spock are characters for the film, and that there is a good possibility of Shatner and Nimoy reprising their roles for the film. Nimoy also seemed to be amenable to the film and Abrams, but said he had not yet spoken to Abrams directly. Here are a couple examples of Shatner’s hints: "On the horizon there are good things for Star Trek and hopefully my involvement" "the magic of Star Trek is in its origins and that is coming back."


Spiner Says Its Over for TNG, Nimoy & Shatner Think They’re Back In

It would seem that the line outside Star Trek XI honcho JJ Abrams door gets longer every day. First up is Brent Spiner (TNG’s Data) who appears pessimistic about his future in the franchise, telling fans in a GMTV chat “I liked (Star Trek) Nemesis too. I don’t think you’ll see the Next Generation cast in another film; though, I hope I am wrong.” Like many other Trek fans, JJ Abrams has stated that he never bothered to see the latest Trek film (Star Trek Nemesis), which has a story co-written by Spiner and the dubious distinction of being the only Trek film to lose money. In a reply to a question about reprising his Nemesis character ‘B4’, the actor lamented "I would enjoy playing him if I ever had the opportunitybut I think that’s doubtful." So perhaps an ‘A Search for Data’ isn’t in his future, but it appears he hasn’t given up hope of being in Star Trek XI. When asked if he would like to play yet another ‘Soong ancestor’ he replied: "I’d be happy to. Let’s start a letter writing campaign. Address them to J. J. Abrams care of Paramount Pictures." While Spiner is thinking of ways to get into Star Trek XI, it appears that Leonard Nimoy and WIlliam Shatner are already counting their money. Nimoy and Shatner have been talking quite a bit about Abrams Star Trek XI lately, Nimoy even revealed he has a ‘casting approval contract’. TrekMovie.com confirmed that both Shatner and Nimoy are signed up to new contracts for the film, but it is still unclear as to their nature. AP interviewed the original Kirk and Spock and Nimoy told them that he thinks JJ Abrams is "a very talented man, which is high praise indeed coming from the director of highest grossing Trek film (Star Trek IV). Nimoy is eager to hear from Abrams telling AP "I think he should get in touch with us right away," to which Shatner added, "And pay our price." Nimoy agreed saying "That would make us happy, to be helpful."


Trouble Ahead for JJ Abrams Paramount Benefactor?

It seems that there may be a rocky road ahead for Brad Grey, the man who brought JJ Abrams into the Paramount family and agreed to hand him the keys to Star Trek. If you haven’t heard already, Viacom Chairman and part-time Cryptkeeper Sumner Redstone fired Grey’s boss, Viacom CEO Tom Freston yesterday. It was Freston who had brought Grey on board a year ago and the word on Wall Street is that the axe may continue to fall…possibly into Grey’s neck. This has not been a good year for Paramount Pictures and Viacom stock has been falling (it fell 5% yesterday alone). It appears the split up of Viacom hasn’t worked out the way Redstone had planned, and he is pinning the blame on Freston. And it appears he isn’t too happy with Grey, recently Redstone cut Grey’s negotiations with Tom Cruise off and kicked Cruise and producing partner Paula Wagner off the lot. Cruise and Waner were the ones who brought Abrams to Grey’s attention after hiring him for MI3. The question for TrekMovie.com is, what is the shake-up at Viacom and Paramount do to the Star Trek XI project. Sources inside Paramount tell us that technically the project is not officially ‘greenlit’ and does not yet have a budget. This is not unusual because the script is still being worked on, but so far work just falls under Abrams overall 5 year deal and not part of a full-blown Trek XI development project. The project is still at a stage where it wouldn’t cost the studio a lot to put it on hold or kill it outright.


Abrams Wants To Talk to Nimoy and the Shat…But About What? [UPDATED w/Video]

I’ve got a few con reports from today’s Toronto Fan Expo regarding Abrams, Nimoy and Shatner. At the con, Leonard Nimoy and William Shatner stated that their representitives have been contacted by the office of Star Trek XI producer JJ Abrams. Apparently JJ wants to to talk and has requested their home numbers. Nimoy said he gave his out and is awaiting JJ’s call. Shatner, who had brought the subject of Abrams up, joked that he wasn’t ready to talk to the man who was ‘going to revive the franchise’. Shatner in recent weeks has made many glowing comments about Abrams and about wanting to be in Trek XI…we suspect he will take Abrams call.UPDATE: Video from inside the room from John at the MovieBlog


Kirk & Spock Storyline NOT Denied in New Star Trek Magazine

Over the last week The Trek Movie Report has got a number of tips regarding an article in the new Star Trek Magazine titled “Blank Slate / New Film Producers Deny Kirk and Spock Recasting Rumors”. Coming from the officially licensed Star Trek magazine this at first did seem like significant news. A few other websites ran ‘news’ that the Kirk and Spock recasting rumor had been ‘officially denied’, but the Trek Movie Report noticed something a bit familiar to the story and decided to dig deeper. After speaking to one of the editors at Titan Publishing it is clear that the headline was not based on any recent conversations Star Trek Magazine had with any Trek XI producers. Although Titan (who also publish the official magazines for both Lost and Alias in addition to the Star Trek Mag) work with Trek XI and Lost producers JJ Abrams and Damon Lindelof regularly, the editor confirms that they were not contacted for that particular article. “As far as we know Paramount have a policy to not confirm or deny any plot details on Trek XI and our article was trying to convey that” said the editor.


Mission Impossible IV…Not Impossible?

Star Trek XI honcho JJ Abrams got the notice of Paramount after his deft work on Mission Impossible III. Although it made $400M a sequel seemed highly unlikely after Viacom chairman Sumner Redstone very publicly booted Tom Cruise off the Paramount lot last week. However, in an interview with Newsweek, Paramount chief Brad Grey offers an olive branch. “I still admire Tom Cruise, he is a huge movie star and a great actor and I’m sure we’ll work together in the future,” said Grey. Even stranger, the Cruise camp seems open to working with Paramount and even an ‘MI4’. Cruise’s producing partner Paula Wagner tells Newsweek “If it’s the right script why not?…we created that franchise”. If this ever happens one could assume that all parties would want Abrams back in the big chair, Cruise himself delayed MI3 for over a year to wait until Abrams was ready for his big debut. Let’s just hope that any MI4 project does not bump into Star Trek XI…that other little Paramount franchise Abrams is working on.


Ron Moore Up For Trek XI + Updates On BSG Season 3 and ‘Caprica’

After leaving the world of Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica co-creator Ron Moore has never been shy about his views of modern Trek. He often cites the many flaws within recent Trek shows as exactly what he is trying not to do on his award series. Trek Movie Report had a brief chat with Moore after Sunday’s BSG panel and asked Ron what he thought of Trek XI. He said he didn’t know much, joking “I only know what I read, you can probably tell me more”. When asked about his views in general he seemed quite optimistic about Trek’s new future, saying “I think it’s a great idea, and I am glad JJ (Abrams) is doing it”


Orci Reveals Star Trek XI Schedule

In Hollywood, movies don’t truly get started until there is a script. Our studio sources have been telling us that only the ‘story’ (or ‘treatment’) for Star Trek XI has been completed. Now, according to Trek XI executive producer and co-writer Roberto Orci, it seems that Halloween is the target for the first draft of a script with filming starting as early as next summer. Orci revealed the schedule in response to an online query about the Trek XI time frame this Wednesday, saying: Just started writing it. First draft by end of October, second by x-mas and hopefully shooting in summer or fall. If all goes REALLY well.


Grunberg: ‘Amazing Actors’ Want To Be In Star Trek XI

It appears that William Shatner isn’t the only big star bucking for a seat on the next Trek enterprise. JJ Abrams pal and expected Trek XI castmember Greg Grunberg is concered about the compeition he is facing for a good part in Star Trek XI. Grunberg tells SciFi Wire: It would be great to have some great role. But people are coming out of the woodwork. Amazing actors are coming out from everywhere calling J.J. and saying, ‘I want to be in this movie!’


Paramount to Cruise: Thanks for bringing in JJ Abrams, now buh bye

Last night it was revealed that Paramount Pictures has ended it’s long relationship with Tom Cruise and producer partner Paula Wagner. It has been reported that Paramount Chief Brad Grey and Cruise/Wagner were in negotiations for restructuring their deal (downwards), and most expected them to come to a deal. Now it appears that Viacom Chairman Sumner Redstone (pictured with Cruise: right) has stepped in and cut off all talks and sent Cruise packing. Paula Wagner isn’t going down without a fight and has fired back regarding how much cash Cruise has brought in to the Paramount family, stated they have been responsible for 15% of revenue since they were brought on board. She also cited bringing in JJ Abrams to the Paramount family. Abrams’ work with Cruise and Wagner on Mission Impossible 3 convinced Paramount they wanted him for the long term; recently signing him to a 5 year deal with Star Trek XI as his first film.


Giacchino Confirmed…Wants Trek XI Score To Be ‘Different’

Although it has been expected, long time JJ Abrams collaborator Michael Giacchino has confirmed he will score Star Trek XI. He tells IGN Filmforce that work is a long time off and that he hasn’t even talked to Abrams about it yet. Giacchino does say he may be picking up on some classic Trek cues, but then going his own way I think that ultimately you might pick the theme that you think is the important one and utilize that in a certain way and then go completely somewhere else with it…That would be I guess in the same way as Mission: Impossible was fun like that to take that and go somewhere wholly different with the score that the other two dudes didn’t do. Not that it’s better or worse but just different.


Designer of Star Trek XI Teaser Poster Confirmed…It’s JJ Abrams!

It looks like JJ Abrams can add ‘graphic artist’ to his growing list of credits for Star Trek XI. Recently our intrepid ‘VegasCon Correspondent’ DavidofLondon picked up an anonymous tip that the Star Trek XI teaser poster was designed by Abrams himself. Today the Trek Movie Report contacted David’s source as well as an additional studio insider who both confirmed this tidbit. One of the insiders pointed out that it is not surprising since Abrams is an experienced designer and even did some of the design work on his debut film Mission Impossible III. It is surprising when you consider that in July Abrams was co-writing Star Trek XI, signed two Hollywood megadeals, co-wrote a script for Lost, and put the finishing touches on the MI:3 DVDs. This shows a serious hands on approch for Abrams. The possible hints he embedded in his design truly make it live up to the description of ‘teaser’.


CNBC: Trek Worth $4B…Paramount, Frakes, Spiner & Brooks talk Trek Bling

CNBC’s ‘On the Money‘ show took a trip to the Vegas Con to see just how much money there was in Star Trek. Their conclusion…A LOT. They estimate that the franchise has been worth $4 Billion for Paramount. A recent unnamed source from Paramount has caused a bit of a stir with his not too favorable comments to IESB about the Trek Franchise, but CBS Paramount VP John Wentworth goes on the record with CNBC: Star Trek is certainly more than a show, more than a movie. It is more than an auction, it’s more than a theme park, collectively it is just the most successful franchise I’ve ever seen in entertainment


Orci and Kurtzman Look To Fan Input For Script

As reported yesterday, Star Trek XI Writers Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman held a live chat about their next film The Transformers Movie. Unfortunately they did not take any questions regarding STXI. However they did reveal quite a bit about their writing process. Although Transfomers is based on a cartoon, they said they wanted the film to be ‘realistic’ and wanted it be accessible to fans and non-fans alike. Orci said: “we want everyone to be able to enjoy this film, young, old, girls, whoever”. It is likely that a similiar approach will be taken with Star Trek XI to expand it’s audience beyond the ‘Trekkie base’. One thing that was quite clear is that is these two are hardcore fans of the Transformers franchise and have loved it since they were kids. The pair discussed how they had originally pitched the idea to director Michael Bay (who they worked with on last year’s The Island). If these guys approach Trek with the respect and passion that they demonstrate with Transformers, then Trek XI is in good hands.


JJ Abrams: The New Roddenberry or The New Meyer?

Variety first announced Star Trek XI with this sentence “J.J. Abrams is becoming the next Gene Roddenberry.”, referring to the late creator of Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation as well as producer and co-writer of the first Trek feature film Star Trek: The Motion Picture. In the recently reported debate, Free Enterprise producers (and big time Trekkies) Rob Burnett and Mark Altman agreed on one thing: Paramount did the right thing by bringing in a new team headed by JJ Abrams. Burnett went on to say that Abrams and his team “bring Star Trek creative blood not seen since Nicholas Meyer“. Meyer is the writer and/or director of the Trek classics Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country. So which is he…the new Roddenberry or the new Meyer?


Abrams MI:III DVDs to Make Hollywood History

Paramount has chosen Star Trek XI producer JJ Abrams’ debut film to make a bit of Hollywood history. According to the industry trades, Mission Impossible III (which Abrams directed and co-wrote) is to be the first film to be simultaneously released on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray as well as regular DVD. Paramount Home Entertainment honcho Meagan Burrows has high praise for Abrams’ film: ” ‘M:I-3’ set a new standard for action films and is setting a new standard for the home entertainment experience.”


TV Guide Interview With Abrams (from last month) Now Online

Last month we reported highlights of a TV Guide interview with Star Trek XI producer JJ Abrams. The full interview is now online at TVGuide.com. A few websites are picking up this interview as a new, but it is actually the same interview from last month (just now in web form). If you saw the earlier report, then there is no new information. Regardless, it is a good read to get a bit more insight into the man who has Star Trek’s future in his hands. The following are the highlights in easy to digest bullet points: Scifi show influences: Twilight Zone and The Prisoner Favorite: Twilight Zone (fave episode: “Where is Everybody”) Considers Lost to be ‘Scifi’…kept this secret from ABC Will be more involved in Lost Season 3 than Season 2 Describes being involved with Trek ‘surreal but wonderful’ Fan of Star Trek (Original Series) and Star Trek: The Next Generation, not so much others (DS9, VOY, ENT) Has all DVD’s of all Trek series Would only take Trek if Paramount had ‘open mind’ Still wont talk specifics yet In the middle of “breaking the story” (NOTE: at time of interview last month) Wants to start film production sooner rather than later, but not until ready STXI Story ‘honors canon’ but is ‘nothing seen before’ Respects Trek fans, has learned a lot from Lost fans Believes Trek endures because of ‘it’s characters and emotional connection’


Damon, Allen, Wax Trek and More…in a News Roundup

Some Star Trek XI numbers 2…ranking of ‘TOS’ for preferred setting of STXI on new SciFi Wire poll (#1 ‘something new’) 2…ranking of ‘Matt Damon’ for the preferred new Kirk in a StarTrek.com poll (#1 ‘total unknown’) 5 (out of 5)… STXI’s level on Cinemablend ‘excite-o-meter’. 7…ranking of STXI on Cinescape top 10 movies in development  Did someone mention Matt Damon? According to Moviehole, he has pulled out playing the title role in the Lance Armstrong biopic, to be replaced by Jake Gyllenhall. The reason given is ‘his busy schedule’. Matt will be filming Ocean’s Thirteen and The Bourne Ultimatum through the winter. Leaving his spring wide open…JJ Will Paramount bring back the Star Trek spoof Galaxy Quest at the same time its bringing back Trek itself? Tim Allen tells the SciFi Wire that a sequel idea has been presented to Dreamworks (now part of Paramount). Never give up, never surrender Tim. 


Free Enterprise Duo debate ‘Pro & Khan’ of STXI

Mark A. Altman and Robert Meyer Burnett (the team behind the 1998 cult hit Free Enterprise) may be friends but they don’t see eye to eye on Star Trek XI. Their semi-autobiographical indie film about two struggling filmmakers who meet their childhood hero William Shatner (who plays himself) demonstrates that these two take their Star Trek very seriously. In the latest issue of CFQ (of which Altman is a co-Publisher) the pair square off…


Damon, Dorn, Dae Kim, and more in a news roundup

The Matt Damon buzz keeps on going, just today Slashdot and Metafilter are ‘reporting’ that IMDB is ‘reporting’ that Damon will play Kirk. Astute readers of both quickly put up links to The Trek Movie.com IMDB Corrections article. To our knowledge it is still officially a rumor…if that changes, Trek XI Report readers will be the first to know. Star Trek Enteprise vet and avowed Trek fan Daniel Dae Kim tells IGN that he gave some advice to Trek XI producer JJ Abrams: "Dont blow it" and "make sure the ships are cool"…we agree. Lost co-star Jorge Garcia suggests he, Kim and Abrams’ pal Greg Grunberg can all don alien makeup for a ‘star wars style cantina scene’. Garcia as a Horta anyone?(tip to TrekWeb)


Abrams Lured to Surprise B’day party with Shatner Meeting Ruse

A few weeks ago the Insider’s Marc Malkin reported that Star Trek XI producer JJ Abrams‘ wife Katie Mc Grath pulled off a last minute surprise party for JJ’s 40th Birthday. Guests (who varied from Don Rickles to Richard Lewis to the Tom Cruise himself) weren’t told where it was until just hours before it was to start. That story focused on the Tom/Katie/Suri angle so Malkin left something out, but he has sent it our way since we are all Trek XI all the time! Marc tells the Trek XI Report that in order to keep JJ from finding out about the party; he was told that he was going to a meeting with none other than William Shatner (Star Trek‘s original Kirk). Although that was just a ruse to keep Abrams from finding out about his party, it is intriguing that his people used a Shatner meeting as their choice for distractions. This is even more intriguing when one looks at the various comments being made by Shatner regarding Abrams and Star Trek XI.


StarTrek.com plans innovative web strategy for Trek XI

[Trek XI Report Exclusive] Since their first announcement over 3 months ago, StarTrek.com hasnt had much content for Trek XI. Well that is all starting to change according to CBS Digital’s Sandy Stone (Content Producer for Star Trek.com), telling the Trek XI Report that StarTrek.com has been deemed the official site for Star Trek XI. The first evidence of this was last week when the first Star Trek XI teaser poster was announced on the site, as well as being made available for download. ‘StarTrek.com’ features prominently on the poster and will also adorn all future promotional materials, trailers, etc. This is all part of a new coordinated effort between CBS and Paramount Pictures (now separate companies after the split up of Viacom) . In addition the Trek XI section on ST.com has already been expanded to include some news and interview reprints, bios & photos of the creative team as well as some downloads. .. “and this is only the beginning” says Stone promising much more in terms of exclusive content.


Sirtis Badmouths Trek XI, Abrams, Paramount and Enterprise

In a live chat with fans on her official site, Marina Sirtis (TNG: Troi) didnt seem too happy with the direction Paramount is taking for Star Trek XI. "I agree with you all about the prequel, Gene Roddenberry always said that Star trek should go forward" she replied to the sentiments that the next Trek film should be set after Star Trek Nemesis, despite its disappointing box office. Her fans seem to want the new Trek film to focus on the Rikers abourd the Starship Titan. Star Trek Nemesis established that Sirtis’ Troi and Jonathan Frakes’ Riker were married and went off to have their own adventures. The Titan has become the basis for a series of popular Star Trek books.


Taking a red pen to the IMDB entry for Trek XI

IMDB is a fantastic resource for fans and film industry people alike. For films that have been completed it extremely accurate and can be relied upon. But for films development that is another story. People should remember that IMDB is like wiki in that most of the content is submitted by users (just like you). And it appears that Trekkies are a bit overzelous in their contributions because the IMDB entry for Star Trek XI is riddled with wild speculation and rumors and it appears to be getting worse. continue reading to get a full breakdown on what is real and what is myth…


ST XI Scribes Orci and Kurtzman to produce thriller for Dreamworks

Seems like Abrams isnt the only STXI writer cutting deals. Variety (via DarkHorizons.com) is reporting that Trek XI co-writers Alex Kurtzman and Robert Orci will be producing a big screen adaptation of the Thomas Perry Novel "Nightlife" about a female serial killer. This is in addition to their work as writers on next summer’s blockbuster in waiting Transfomers…and of course the script they are presently writing the first draft of…Star Trek XI. It seems that Paramount/DreamWorks cant get enough of these guys..who appear to be joined at the hip (they are actually best friends who started a writing partnership back in high school). Although best known for their writing, they have signed on Ehren Kruger (Brothers Grim) to do the adaptation of Nightlife. To learn more about your Trek Writers..Interview with the WGAPodcast Interview with Creative Screenwriting


Comic-Con: Trek XI Producers are fans of the new Battlestar Galactica

Lost and Trek XI producer Damon Lindelof (pictured in the middle) was asked for a reaction on Lost not being nominated for Best Dramatic Series Emmy for its second season (after winning for its first season). Lindelof exclaimed “Battlestar Galactica didnt get nominated either and thats a great show”. Fellow Lost and STXI producer Bryan Burk (pictured on left), along with Lost producer Carlton Cuse (pictured on right) joined in on the praise agreeing with Lindelhof’s assessment…as did the crowd of Losties who applauded the mention of Galactica.


Variety celebrates Trek 40th Aniv. with Abrams interview

Todays Daily Variety has a 3 page spread on the 40th Anniversery of Star Trek with a number of articles. Most cover the history of the franchise, the fans and fanfilms. They also got Mr Abrams to talk about Trek XI. Abrams starts of by telling Variety that he started off working on Trek at his Bar mitzvah…because none other than Nicholas Meyer was in attendance! He again confirms that he will be working with his usual suspects (Burk, Lindelof, Orci, Kurtzman, etc) and again says that it is too early to talk about plot details and again cant confirm if he will direct. He reveals that Paramount has flooded the team with ‘every published Star Trek work’ including the books…now that must have been a big delivery. The team he says has a variety of levels of Trek fandom, calling himself a ‘big fan’ (but wont go so far as calling himself a ‘Trekker’), Orci ‘has immediate recall of all things Trek’ and Burk seems to be a newbie…giving them as he says ‘all points of view’


Abrams: Trek XI “won’t be like anything you’ve seen before”

After months of not hearing anything now JJA is talking to everyone! This time it is TV Guide’s turn, but of course he is still being cagey about details on plot… refusing to confrim or deny ‘young Kirk and Spock’. He did reveal that he is a big fan of TOS and TNG, but no so much DS9, VOY and ENT. While die-hard Trekkies may balk at this, lets face it…that is pretty much standard based on the ratings. Here is the moneyshot: “We’re in the middle of breaking the story, and it’s coming along great,” Abrams said. “We have an incredible beginning of a really dramatic story, and it very much honors the canon of Star Trek. On the other hand, it won’t be like anything you’ve seen before.” He adds, “I’d be happy to start sooner than Paramount thinks, but not a moment before it’s ready.” So there you have it…soon, canon-friendly, but different…what more can you ask continue reading for the full text of the TV Guide interview and a comment JJA gave to Cinefantastique …


People are talking about JJ and Trek

News of the JJ Abrams deal with Paramount and Warner TV hit the wires and the trades on Monday (2 days after your humble blogger brought you the news). For the most part the reports focus on how amazingly rich and powerful Mr. Abrams is about to become, but our favorite topic (Trek XI) is mentioned in almost every report…most like this tidbit in The Hollywood Reporter Abrams already is attached to direct and produce a revival of the "Star Trek" film franchise for Paramount, which is his first project under the new feature deal. but Variety (who were first with Trek XI news in April) has a bit more info on how Paramount views the Trek franchise and Abrams place in it:


Shatner Reacts (and Reacts) to Damon as Kirk Rumors

Much has been made about the recent rumor reported by the Insider that JJ Abrams wants Matt Damon to be the next Captain Kirk. The original report specifically said that JJ Abrams sought and recieved Shatner’s blessing. Since then USA Today reported Shatner as OKing Damon as young Kirk, quoting him “”I think it’s great. The tragedy is that when somebody else is playing you younger, you’re really old.” Now StarTrek.com is getting into the mix saying sources ‘close to Shatner’ claim Abrams seeking his advice is ‘news to him’ going on to say he hasn’t heard anything from Abrams or the producers of Star Trek XI. So there you have it…clear as mud.