[possible spoilers] AICN has posted an article on plot rumors for the new Star Trek film that posits much of the film takes place in an alternative timeline (possibly as a way to avoid canon violations). AICN’s Moriarty (apparently based on a dinner chat with someone at Paramount) describes the film involving Romulans going back in time to kill James T. Kirk and change history with older Spock (Nimoy) doing what he can to fix the timeline. However, it is a little hard to separate what are possible plot rumors from and what is Moriarty’s own speculation. Beyond the notion that the older Spock character is central to the film’s plot, TrekMovie.com cannot confirm (or refute) any of the details at this time.
What we do know from on the record accounts from the writers and others involved in the film is that it ‘fills a gap’ in Trek history and will portray the original crew of the USS Enterprise before the time of TOS and how they ‘came together.’ It is possible that some of AICN’s information could be based on an out of date script or story outline and even AICN acknowledge that their reporting is not ‘set in stone.’
Time travel again? Sheesh! We’ll get to a point where we won’t know if we’re coming or going!
fascinating…
FIrst!! Interesting concept. Would work since Spock has been in Romulan space working on Unification.
Okay, I missed. Third!!!
As others have pointed out, this plot is very similar to both Trials & Tribbleations and First Contact. Therefore it’s probably as bogus as Harry Mudd’s beauty pills.
Oh, I get it! After an action-packed adventure in the past to restore the timeline, an elderly Spock pulls the young Kirk aside and whispers in his ear, “years from now, when you’re invited to christen the Enterprise-B, it would be in your best interests NOT to attend”. Then, when older Spock returns to his current time, there’s an older Kirk alive and expressing his thanks! Yeah, that it!!
this kinda reminiscent of terminator to anyone?
This could also help write in Shatner if Spock changes history enough, Shatner would have never been in the Nexxis and never died. This could work… i’ll reserve jufgement until I hear more facts…and see the movie, of course. :) But yes, it would explain why Spock is so important to the film. And i would guess, why Leaonard Nimoy choose to come out of retirement for this movie. It is a great film for him to lead.
In reading this article on AICN, It really seems that there is no real place that this rumor is coming from other than that article. There is no “Someone told me” aspect to it, or anything like that. While Time travel always makes for a good story, I don;t know, I just don;t take what this guy says with a grain of salt’. Add to that that I don;t think Abrams would basically invent an alternate universe Trek to set everything in. That would kind of defeat the whole effort, and probably drive away a bunch of the fan base. Personally, I find it hard to believe that this Movie will be a complete Reboot ala Battlestar Galactica, as it would be extremely difficult selling it when there are over 900 hours of Star Trek already available with it’s history and continuity for the most part intact.
I will add that this guy has also posted “Rumors” about Cloverfield, the other JJ Abrams project that were so far off the mark when some of the info came out.
My 3 and a half cents anyway (Inflation you know)
Romulans go back in time to kill James T. Kirk !
it’s sounds familier,,,
In the Book, “The Return” by William Shatner, Judith Reeves-Stevens, and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. The Romulans form an aliance with the Borg ( and their nano’s ) and go back in time to bring Kirk back to life just after he dies in Generations.
I don’t mind the time travel concept being used as long as it is well thought out and done in an interesting and relevant manner.
If it is done as well as say Back to the Future did it, then I am hopeful. Obviously with not quite so many jokes mind you………
#6
Love your suggestion about old Spock telling young Kirk to stay away from the Enterprise-B launch. Very BTTF once again :) and an easy way to bring Kirk back. Picard will just have to sort out his nexus problem in another manner on his lonesome.
Perhaps he could come out when Soran is still on the Enterprise and just vapourise him….?
This sounds like a combination of the plots for OGAM and the new film. It also doesn’t make sense given Abrams’s statement that he wants to bring in new fans. Time travel involving Romulans and a dead Kirk require too much background Trek knowledge.
Nah, I dont buy the alternative universe thing at all.
Maybe some messing with the timeline (which I dont really want to see), but not changing it.
Defeats the point.
Having said that, if Spock is looking back upon his life – what better tool to gaze upon it than THE GUARDIAN OF FOREVER???
Now that would be cool.
#6
Then Kirk isn’t there to help Picard in Generations, Picard and the crew of the Enterprise-D are killed, the Borg then invade and defeat Earth in the past. Or some other outcome from tampering with the past. However that would be one way of getting Shatner in.
I’m still trying to find it, but wasn’t there a quote from JJ or someone that time travel is not involved in this story? This was several months ago. Maybe senility is just setting in early.
NO RESET BUTTONS!
Gad, didn’t we get enough of those from Voyager and ENT?
I suspect this leak is spurious. Moreover, since there’s not a frame of film shot, I think JJ has a lot of work to do before even HE (sorry, I mean JJ, not God) knows what this film will ultimately look like.
Here’s what I said on Fark, where the headline was “Star Trek fans can breathe a sigh of relief. The new movie won’t screw up established canon because it takes place in an alternative timeline”:
This is a theory. Not a rumor. Not a fact. This is a theory from someone whose soapbox is a little bigger than, say, mine.
Whether that soapbox is deserved is another question.
Having said all that – going back in time somehow and changing the future somehow has been done to death a trillion times in Star Trek.
Star Trek : First Contact for one.
I’m dubious, especially given its your standard Terminator/First Contact/Back to the Future time-travel premise.
On the other hand, nobody in Hollywood ever seems to lose any sleep about being called too imitative, so who knows? If it were written well enough, it might work.
Not that I place a lot of stock in AICN’s story; those dummies have all the journalistic integrity of The Weekly World News at times … but it is interesting that Moriarty’s article states that the Romulans want to kill Kirk’s FATHER. Might that character actually be in the script? With the exception of his dead brother, Kirk’s family has always been a wide open mystery (on screen at least).
If the father is in the script, it would mean part of the story takes place before Kirk is even born! Note that Moriarty also implied that the story would challenge the canonical notion of who the Enterprise’s first Captain was. Does that mean Kirk’s father might be in Starfleet, serving under Robert April as he did in one of the novels?
Fun speculation, but again, I doubt much of this will prove true. When Anthony reports on the plot, then I’ll know we have something.
Don’t agree AVi. Did Back to the Future require a lot of background? The new movie would not have to do any legwork at all – Kirk is a well know pop culture character. If someone is going to kill him off and change the future that’s all that needs to be said. Its akin to the JFK assasination.
If time travel can be used to break out from the boundaries of existing canon, then go for it!
No time travel please….
Sounds highly unlikey to me.
#14–it could be even easier.
IF this is the true plotline, it’s VERY easy to fix Generations. Not the way I’d do it, but still very easy.
But let’s address your concern. Soran wasn’t evil when he was ripped out of the nexus. He was just a guy who wanted to be there. He was also a smart guy too. Suppose Kirk just said, “you, come with me,” and then Soran fixed the E-B? Then Soran gets shot into the nexus, he’s happy and not around to wreak havoc. The only thing left is that the E-D survives.
So does Kirk.
Not a major historical change except a machine is saved.
OR, Spock could arrange things to play out so that a small group of Starfleet officers is hanging out on Veridian III waiting for Soran just as the E-D crashes.
At this point, Soran is arrested, Kirk and Picard and Spock do a high five, and all is well.
Personally, I wouldn’t prevent Kirk’s death–I’d work with it. But the point is there are as many logical ways to fix Generations as there are Trek fans to think of them.
#14 “Picard and the crew of the Enterprise-D are killed”
On the contrary. If Picard, when he gets to the Nexus, doesn’t have Kirk there to distract him, he would have the time to realize that the better plan would be to leave the Nexus when Soran first came on board the ship and arrest his ass in Ten-Forward! This, of course, is what the Picard from the T.V. series would have done in the FIRST place, if it wasn’t for the POOR writing of Braga and Moore for the crappy Generations!!
No, thank You.
I woudn’t get too hung up on the plot details looking similar to previous films/episodes. After almost 500 hours of Star Trek, there is bound to be repetition in plot devices and storytelling. Any two sentence summary of a two hour film is not going to give the story justice. It is how they let the story play out that matters most–what themes they choose to underline in the midst of all that action and adventure.
I just wish I could tune out the Trek sites regarding spoilers, but I can’t resist the temptation. Ah well, I appreciate all the work that goes into this site. I just wish I wasn’t so weak that I have to spoil this movie like I did with the last three by reading too much of the plot ahead of time.
Without “spoiler warnings” even visiting your main headlines page may give away too much.
#25
Good point. But then the tv show had ‘All Good Things…’ which would have been a better film than Generations, as would several other eps. I’m just hoping this will be a great movie.
People should remember we are talking about AICN…………BIG grain of salt should be taken.
People who do not want to be spoiled should NOT be visiting a site called TREKMOVIE.COM.
Thank you for your time.
What’s wrong with recalibrating the clock?
There is too much canon anyway, besides if this is the start of a TOS franchise, then everything besides ENT hasn’t happened yet, and it eliminates all the nit-picking about things that even the writers forgot they established.
Time to clean house, let’s see if this can be exciting without saturating it with
canon.
Although, having expressed that, I do like the idea of a cameo by “older” Kirk,
spared from the infernal dopey NEXUS!
Kind of explains Shatner’s behavior, “remember” Nimoy didn’t return as Spock till the end of STIII!
Still Kirok:
If this story is true there are about a zillion ways they can bring back Kirk.
Also, didn’t Picard cause a second timeline in Generations?
Soran actually defeated Picard (and forced him to enter the nexus) and destroyed the Enterprise. In that timeline Picard,Soran and Kirk are alive in the nexus. While the Enterprise + it’s crew were destroyed.
He clearly created at least two timelines.
Timeline 1: Picard,Kirk and Soran are alive and in the nexus.
Timeline 2: Picard and Kirk exit the nexus to save what Picard thinks is his timeline. Kirk + Soran die.
The door is getting wider and wider for Kirk/Shatner to return.
actually rastaman has a good point and I changed the headline and added a spoiler warning. I think for plot details that is best. But for characters and actors it is not needed.
NOTE: I may change my mind later on this one, so not a policy or precedent just yet
Alternate timeline = bad idea
Romulans = bad idea (last film to have them in didn’t do too well…)
Time travel = bad idea
It also reeks of fanboyishness.
Such a plot takes as its jumping off point the established TNG/DS9/post-Nemesis universe with an older Spock and tries awkwardly to use a time travel gimmick to set up a trip back to pre-TOS era. It also makes the story more about the gimmick – time-travel – than the *characters*.
I expect the new movie will instead be totally focused on exploring the characters of Kirk and Spock at a stage in their lives we have not seen before. This does not require any more complicated device that an older Spock narrating the story to… well pretty much anyone would do.
I also expect it will be pitched with a story that is perfectly accessible to people who have only a vague notion of Star Trek as “that show with Captain Kirk and Mr Spock – they went to planets and he sexed up the alien girls and Spock said “illogical” a lot”. An elaborate “plot across time” would be an immedaite turn-off to swathes of the movie-going public – (and I also don’t think Nimoy would buy into it)
So I think this is just a bogus rumour.
Wait a second… If Spock tells Kirk to not go on the Enterprise B that will unravel time! Think about it a second. If Kirk is not on the E-B then nobody will fix the defector and save the B. Everyone on the B dies, including Guinann, Scotty and Chekov.
Flash forward 70 years. Guinann does not work on the Enterprise and can not advise Picard on the Borg. In the alternate timeline she can not advise Picard to send the E-C back in time to prevent the Klingon/Federation war! And Wont be around to Tell Yar that her death was meaningless and therefore NO Sela (which is not really a bad thing, she was a big spacebitch)
Assuming that Sorin died on the E-B then there would be no reason for the E-D to be at Veridian III and Troi will never crash land the E into the planet and get destroyed. Therefore, NO E-E.
If Guinann of the future does not exist, then Data and Picard would not have known her in the past. When they went back in time to San Fransico they would not have known she was an alien and she would not have been able to help stop the Alien threat against humanity to suck out everyone’s souls. (With the help of Samual Clemmings)
So, you see, bringing back kirk is a HORRIBLE idea. And if they do, I hope he wears a girdle!
#34
There is no future, only the now.
No. More. Time travel! Gaggh, it’s been done to death and back again in more movies and episodes than I care to recall.
Thinking about it now. The only way Spock can save Kirk AND keep the future from falling apart is to save Guinan as well. You know what that means? Whoopie needs to be in the new movie!
For what it’s worth, Moriarty DOES hint in the talkback that he got the info from someone at Paramount.
Still though, I just can’t see either Abrams OR Nimoy being too excited for a storyline as contrived and fanboyish as that one. Their tastes are a bit more old school– they’d gravitate towards a more grounded and character-based kind of Trek movie.
Hmmm, I thought that the Next Genies turned the Romulans into misunderstood good guys?? Like they did with all the other iconic Trek villians. Don’t know if I’m opposed to the idea, I loath what the Next Genie era did to the Romulans. Could work. But only if Mr. James R. Mugatu is involved in a meaningful way.
Don’t forget Mugatu- Bring Back Mugatu
#27 LOL. I was the same- …. it … said…. possible… spoiler…. must…. not….. look….. oh damn! I’m weak, forgive me! :D
I think i’d be happy with this story.
#39
Romulans were most definitely bad guys in the TNG era right up through DS9. They didn’t turn them into ‘misunderstood good guys’. Even in TOS they showed Romulans had many different facets, and weren’t simply one-dimensional bad guys. They did, however, turn them into bumbling idiots in Nemesis.
I just want to go on record with how much I loathe this idea. I’m so tired of time travel as a plot device. There are so many different concepts & stories they could go with, I would hope they don’t take the easy way out.
#12
Never mind about the kids who haven’t got enough background knowledge. We can fill them in on the basics. There’s still enough time left…
#30
Let’s hope the floodgates are opening for Kirk/Shatner to return!
Interesting how time travel and alternate timelines = fanboy.
Without those devices some of the best ST stories would not have occurred.
Let’s keep an open mind here folks.
Time Trek Again. At least they do not have another DATA brother.
Maybe they go back in time & Kill RICK BERMAN!
Now thats a good idea!
Hmmm….I was hoping for something a bit better than this. But if it is true, then it would be easy and hell to bring Shatner back due to the whole time travel/alternate reality stuff.
#30–Ivory–there ARE two timelines.
That’s one way to show Kirk is alive without nullifying Generations. When Soran was stopped, the nexus flew by, so no one ever went into the nexus to pull Kirk out, so he should still be in there, in tact.
Another idea–if Kirk doesn’t go to the E-B, then maybe HARRIMAN shows some guts and fixes the deflector dish himself, and HE goes into the nexus and dies because Picard can’t fight and couldn’t figure out to go back a few minutes earlier and slap the cuffs on Soran.
#43–why is the term fanboy considered bad?
What is WRONG with doing incredible plots that do what so many fans want to see?
If anything, fanboy is GOOD. DO the cool plots. That’s worth paying to see.
NOTE TO ABRAMS:
Flash-forwards and flash-backs are ok. Time travel is bad!
Minor changes for a 21st century audience are ok. Screwing severely with established canon is bad!
Can I make it any simpler for him? If AICN’s report/speculation is on the money then my enthusiasm for Abrams’ film is heading down fast. They need to leak a review for the current script (positive, hopefully) or give some indication of the plot and design specifics of this film before negative speculation screws them. If nothing else the next poster needs to come out soon and be a big picture of the Enterprise that ILM is working up for the film so that the trekkies can have something to cheer for.
While AICN does have to be taken with a grain of salt, they do have connections, not unlike our good host here, and it’s not beyojnd the realm of possibility that “Moriarty” did enjoy dinner with someone from Paramount that has read the script. Now which draft he read, we don’t know, but regardless, I really like it the ideas brought forth.
Somebody jacks with the time line, Spock can fix some of it, but not all of it. With the new alternate timeline things are slightly different, the looks of things change ever so slightly, the faces change slightly, Kirk never dies and the 23rd century continues void of any 24th century influence, to start anew with a familiar, yet totally new crew.
An alternate time-line also explains how Shatner,as Kirk, could easily be brought into this movie. Brilliant! I just keep getting more and more excited about this picture. Good stuff!
#48 Exactly why is time travel bad?
Let’s think beyond this movie. What drama can there be if the new movie(s) stay inside the existing canon? We know the fates of the characters? Placing them in danger will have no dramatic value.
For time travel/alternative timeline haters – If they stay inside the existing timeline how will any suspense or tension be created knowing what lies in the future?
I am sincerely interested in seeing some valid suggestions.