ST09 Tidbits (Superman Edition): Winona As Jor-El? JJ For Next Superman? + more

When you saw Winona Ryder’s Amanda in the new Star Trek movie was your first thought about how much she reminded you of Jor-El from Superman The Movie? Well we have her thoughts on that, plus Kevin Smith talking about how Star Trek proves JJ Abrams is the man for the next Superman, plus a scientific look at Krypton Vulcan, and more.

 

Amanda El?
With the birth of Spock scene cut from the movie, Winona Ryder’s role as Spock’s mother Amanda was reduced to just a couple of scenes and a brief glimpse. In an interview with Empire [via Digital Spy], Ryder says saw her cameo like one in another origin story of a classic character:

I really don’t have much more than a cameo [in Star Trek]. I was [kind] of thinking I’d be like Marlon Brando in Superman. Not that I’d ever compare myself to Brando!


Winona and Marlon with their alien babies – similarities end there

Kevin Smith says Star Trek proves Abrams should do Superman
Speaking of what is next for the man of steel, geeky director Kevin Smith was the first to give Star Trek a review, and he is a big proponent of the movie. Kevin Smith and JJ Abrams are friends and they also have in common that both wrote drafts for a potential Superman reboot before Superman Returnswas given over to Bryan Singer. Now Smith tells MTV that thinks Star Trek proves that JJ should be given another shot at Superman.

Of course there is the whole thing about JJ having a contract with Paramount for feature films and Superman being controlled by Warner Bros, but whatever, sure give JJ another go, but not until after the Star Trek sequel.

[SPOILERS]

Scientist quibbles with Vulcan + more deep thinking
Was the destruction of Vulcan an homage to the destruction of Krypton? OK maybe not but I need some kind o transition to this next tidbit.

Earlier in the month TrekMovie posted a scientific review of the Star Trek movie by Phil Plait of the Bad Astronomy Blog, but it appears he isn’t the only expert giving the new Trek some scrutiny. In a new article for SciFiWire, author and rocket scientist (literally) Wil McCarthy, takes Trek to task over the implosion. His main beef seems to be the speed at which the planet sucks itself into a black hole, noting:

Even if you drop a bomb or fire a death ray powerful enough to reduce a whole planet to rubble, you still have the problem of gravity; that rubble is going to stay where it is, or at worst, fly apart and then fall back together again. The resulting planet would be loose rather than solid—picture a pile of sand or a dump truck full of gravel—but it would still be round, it would still have gravity, and you could still orbit your spaceship around it.

McCarthy concludes that the result of the black hole would also create a large debris cloud and ring system, and he adds this morbid bit of analysis:

And here’s the funny part: some of the debris in that ring might be living people. Close to the event horizon the tidal stresses are enough to tear a person apart into component atoms, but a hundred kilometers farther out, the stresses would be felt but would not be lethal. Such a disaster would be a rough ride indeed, but anyone wearing a spacesuit, or holed up in a submarine, or trapped in a bank vault or an underground military bunker, would have a small but possibly nonzero chance of surviving.


Wonder if any Vulcans survived by ducking into refrigerators at the last second (caption supplied by TM reader Edward O’Connor)

And that isn’t the only deep thinking that the new Star Trek is inspiring, here are some more new articles taking a close look at the Star Trek movie and franchise and how it relates to religion and politics:

Well that’s it for the last tidbits of the week. TrekMovie wishes you all a great weekend. And we have some interesting ST09 stories lined up for Saturday and Sunday, so you’all come back now.

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colonyearth

The link to the Counterpunch article seems to be broken, Anthony. Great predictions! I agree!

colonyearth

Ooops! Frak! Wrong article for the “great predictions” bit. My bad, was referring to this weekend’s predictions. As far as the Vulcan thing goes, the actual science is as Spock would say “fascinating,” but let’s get real here, it’s just a movie and as a writer and filmmaker myself, I will admit to the oft used creative license. But let’s be honest, the Vulcan destruction wouldn’t have been as cool or powerful in reality.

aaronite_1

JJ would be AMAZING for Superman, even if they just went with his script and offered him a consultant role. I would love to see a Superman movie as exciting as Star Trek 2009!

I think they should completely reboot as per the script, but still feature Brandon Routh and maybe even Erica Durance (Smallville), as they have proven themselves as Clark and Lois.

bman

> Kevin Smith and JJ Abrams are friends and they also have in
> common that both wrote drafts for a potential Superman reboot
> before Superman Begins was given over to Bryan Singer.

Superman Begins?

aaronite_1

Actually, Superman Begins would be an ideal name for a reboot, now that I think about it!

Brian Kirsch

Superman Returns Again and Begins Again. Coming Summer 2012!

Geodesic

Superman: REdBOOTED.

Schultz

Winona is a goddess, one of the very few Hollywood has ever seen.

The Seeker

@6.

Except that Batman already claimed a title with ‘Begins” in it, and he’d hate to have to kick Superman’s arse…again…

Cause Batman’s not a very nice guy. That’s how he rolls.

Jim Cude

Love how the scientist accepts that a black hole could be dropped into a planet with red matter (and Vulcan exists) but that the shape is wrong…

I wonder if any Vulcans survived by ducking into refrigerators at the last second…

Brian Kirsch

Since I’m here, can I put in a shameless plug for another movie? I’m sure this not the proper forum, or even the proper site, but whatever. We’re all sci-fi fans here, I assume. The movie is “Moon”, starring Sam Rockwell and directed by Duncan Jones (aka Zowie Bowie, son of David Bowie) I’ve seem the trailer for this film, and it looks incredible. It has received rave reviews and great buzz. Think 2001 crossed with Silent Running crossed with Solaris. It open in select theaters in 2 weeks.

Sorry for that, resume the discussion. ;-)

Mike

Geodesic….very clever.

Jorg Sacul

If JJ does reboot Superman… for Rao’s sake, at least get the story right and don’t blow up Krypton’s sun with the planet like in Superman:The Movie. Not only was that completely wrong according to the Superman mythos, it was plain stupid, as it blew up like a chemical explosion.

In the 1980s John Byrne era, Superman revisited his home solar system, to find that (fairly scientifically accurate, according to modern thought) the remnants of Krypton had recollected into a somewhat planetary mass. Granted, it was a big nasty swirling pile of Kryptonite… but hey. You’ll have that.

All that aside, I’m really tired of seeing Krypton blow up. Start the movie in the present day, with Superman established already. We KNOW he came from Krypton, was raised in Smallville, yadda yadda… Give us ACTION! How about forgetting about Lex Luthor and go on to the wonderful alien Braniac?

Spock as Superman? Obama as Spock? Whatever happened to someone being themselves, like say… Chuck Norris?

section9

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boborci!!!

Tell JJ to stay away from the mouldering corpse of Brando and the REALLY, REALLY dead franchise.

Third Batman? Okay. Lesbian Catwoman? Even better? Star Trek/Jetsons Crossover? Well, the fanboys might have problems, but Pixar and ILM can handle the animation.

But God’s Peace! Please tell Abrams to stay away from Kal-El~!

It stinks of Space Hippies in Kansas, baby….

We Reach!

section9

I wonder if any Vulcans survived by ducking into refrigerators at the last second…

You don’t get it. Spielberg’s doing the next movie. That’s how T’Pring survives.

The Happy Klingon

The Fortress of Solitude would actually be a Budweiser Brewery…lol
sorry
couldnt resist :)

Izbot

Superman: I Still Know What You Did Two Summers Ago!

fom the text of the article

“create a large debris could and ring system”

huh?

The next Superman movie should star Tom Welling, end of story.

I’d prefer a ‘reboot’ with the same cast from Superman Returns, just a better story and for God’s sake, get back the original red and blue costume, not that muted brown and gray crap that Routh wore in Returns.

Daoud

#21 “create a large debris field and ring system”

Does that help?

Daoud

Although I think he meant “cloud”. It’s just that “field” is the more accurate scientific term. A cloud is droplets of liquid suspended in a gas.

#22/23 I’d love Tom Welling as Superman, too. Routh wasn’t convincing. Welling in the suit would be fascinating, as all these years in Smallville, that’s been the “no fly zone”.

A thirty-something Superman that assumes just as Jorg suggests in #15 is a great way to go. Let it seem just like Star Trek did in 1966, as if this crew has been together a few years, doing what they do. A world where the Daily Planet is like USA Today, and Clark Kent and Lois Lane are international reporters and it has all the fun of the best years of the comic books. That would be *fun*, which Superman hasn’t been. Superman was an origins story movie. Superman II was dark. Superman III was a parody. Superman IV was… worse than a bad Star Trek fan film. Superman-R was the worst remake of Superman, plus the dark of II, plus a lot of IV. Make it fun… and people will fill the seats. In that sense, JJ is a perfect choice… but let Alex, Bob & Damon write it. :)

Amazing Bizarro

Re-booting Superman… AGAIN?? What about an Aquaman movie, it’s timely. Global warming, whales washing up on shore, icebergs melting, NOW is the time. Heck, even Man From Atlantis would be cool.

Are there NO new ideas in Hollywood??

Off topic here, but I just read a fascinating article from ten years ago discussing TREK’s problems (ratings slide, fan fatigue, etc).

It is very relevent and for Berman bashers quite a squathing indictment. I agree and disagree with a great deal of the article, but be forewarned it is a lengthy piece.

See accompanying link if interested:

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/1999/10/29/trek/index.html

Jim Cude

#13 Right on- MOON is a cool as heck movie for any serious scifi fan.

bman

> 11. Jim Cude – May 29, 2009
> Love how the scientist accepts that a black hole could be dropped into a
> planet with red matter (and Vulcan exists) but that the shape is wrong…

Love how any scientist has the temerity to claim that they know what a planet with a instantaneously-formed black hole at the center would do.

Someone just wanted to see their name in print.

bman

I mean really….

“Even if you drop a bomb or fire a death ray powerful enough to reduce a whole planet to rubble, you still have the problem of gravity; that rubble is going to stay where it is, or at worst, fly apart and then fall back together again.”

No bomb. No death ray. And yes, gravity is a problem. But not the gravity of the broken up planet. The gravity he seems to have forgotten completely, the gravity of the freaking singularity at the center of the rubble.

Beck

30.

Yeah, that kinda confused me, too. It’s not a bomb, it’s a singularity; wouldn’t that suck the debris into oblivion?

B4

#29
“Love how any scientist has the temerity to claim that they know what a planet with a instantaneously-formed black hole at the center would do.”

so… the mass of the red matter was like 20 grams? What’s the Schwarzschild radius of 20 grams? Like a femptometer? How does 20 extra grams implode a planet? Geezs… Even if it did make a black hole, it wouldn’t have enough mass to affect the surface. It would just vibrate and evaporate… I guess the “red matter” has the ability to create new mass? What is this, Star Trek: The Animated Series episode 8, “The Magicks of Megas-tu” where mass was constantly being created? Or the writers needed a natural phenomena to destroy Romulus, and that meant Spock needed a way to stop it…

So when Spock says the technology needed to artificially create a black hole implies such technology could be used for time travel… first of all that’s science-crap, second does that mean the Vulcan Science Directorate has been using time-travel? no wonder they keep denying it… hmmm… where is Daniels from again?

paustin

funny article….yet what makes it more interesting is that in the “countdown” comic Spock addresses the Romulan senate…with a speech that really mirrored Jor-El’s talk at the beginning of Superman:The Movie lol.

Just Sayin'

As much as I love Lost and Trek, JJ’s story ideas for “Superman: Flyby” (that was to be directed by McG!) sounded horrendous, even worse than Smallville’s alternate Super-verse.

Admiral_Bumblebee

What I know of JJs planned Superman Reboot from a few years ago, it was terrible. It totally f…. up the whole character and mythology.
Why is JJ so keen of changing everything that defined our culture?

The Wild Man of Borneo

NO!!! DO NOT GIVE SUPERMAN TO ABRAMS.

Here is his script for superman a few years back.

https://trekmovie.com/2009/05/29/st09-tidbits-superman-edition-winona-as-jor-el-jj-for-next-superman-more/

I never read a script that was so dumb and horrible to a character and it’s mythology (except his Trek movie.) Man, he’s already screwed up one great universe, don’t let him screw superman’s too.

@35

I have no idea, he screwed Trek pretty good.

The Wild Man of Borneo

WAIT SORRY SORRY… HERE IS THE SCRIPT…

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13350

Black Fire

Thank you for the link to the article on Counterpunch. Whoever says the movie lacked the thought provoking ideas from the series really should go reading this. What makes it thought provoking is just not as school child obvious as it was in the series.

Maybe vulcan’s matter travelled in time as well.

This black holes seem to work a lot like standard Romulan spacial singularities (I mean, in a diferent way each time).

WTF??? I was just telling someone earlier today that JJ would be PERFECT for Superman!!!!!!!!

Harry Ballz

#36+37

I agree completely! Funny, months ago I posted here about the Abrams spec script for Superman and how it was really bad, only to have Bob Orci himself post back that he thought it was pretty good!

What kind of ego must a person (Abrams) have to want to go back and change all the established mythology in iconic stories about our heroes???

Keep Abrams away from Superman!

I found a name for new Superman movie:

“Superman: Reboot Of The Reboot”

jas_montreal

Who knows… maybe our sassy Tuvok hid himself in a refrigerator.

CmdrR

The stunt casting in Superman worked. Not many of those things have worked since then. In fact, Marlon’s ‘stardom’ was a much bigger factor than his acting in that role. imho

At least JJ wouldn’t try to make Superman non-American, Christ-ish, and gay (at least as regards to his costume.) Sorry, but that’s exactly what they did in Superman Returns and it hurt the character terribly.

Holger

44: The costume you refer to as gay has been Superman’s costume from 1938 on (with slight modifications and a brief interruption). Without it he’s not the Superman icon.

Mr Phil

Superman is Warner Bros?
Is JJ tied into Paramount, or is he a free agent…?

Holger

I’m not a fan of reboot mania raging in Hollywood. But I think Superman FINALLY deserves a decent cineastic treatment, therefore I am for a reboot.

The problem is that they’ll have to match up Superman against his prime adversary in a first reboot movie, which would be… oh no, not Lex Luthor again!
In five Superman movies we have seen just two of his classic comicbook foes, Lex Luthor (four times) and General Zod & gang (once). This is one of the greatest letdowns of the Superman movie run! (Well, III and IV were nothing but letdowns.)
Bring on Brainiac!!

Sorry,…not interested in anything Kevin Smith has to say or recommends.

and

11

You’re not the Jim Cude I know who plays tuba and I helped get out of a hotel in France? Find it strange that there would be another Jim Cude in this world. And even stranger that you’re into Star Trek. Never knew that about you in college.

Steamblade

45. Somehow fabric now has a sexual orientation. Gay rights have come a long way.

JJ dropped the (red) ball with Trek, don’t let him near Superman.

B4

#39
“This black holes seem to work a lot like standard Romulan spacial singularities (I mean, in a diferent way each time).”

The artificial singularities used by the Romulans in the TNG era did not implode planets… or ships… which is consistent with the way in which a real artificial singularity would behave. The trouble with a real artificial singularity is manipulating it, i.e. how do you take it along with you for your ride?
…As my aerospace department head said last night at a party concerning the space elevator “the principle of the conservation of energy is telling you this is a stupid idea.”

#44, 45
His character was always “Christ-ish,” and his costume was always gay. Now the un-American part, I don’t know…