Orci & Kurtzman at WGA: Talk Star Trek Canon, Spock/Uhura, Shatner, Sequel, TrekMovie Fans & more

As part of their series of screenings for WGA nominees, there was a showing of the 2009 Star Trek movie at the WGA theater in Beverly Hills on Wednesday night. Following the film there was a panel discussion and Q&A with the writers (and WGA nominees) Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman. The pair covered a lot of old ground, but also discussed some of the hot point topics on the first Star Trek, and they also talked about the sequel too. They also talked about commenters at TrekMovie.com!



Showing Star Trek to the WGA
The 2009 Star Trek film is the first Trek movie to ever garner a WGA nomination. The screening series is one of the ways the WGA helps their members make the final decision when they vote. Interestingly the vast majority (by a showing of hands) had never seen the film before. It was interesting watching the film with a new audience again and even though they Hollywood insiders, you still got all the laughs and gasps from the audience you would get from general audiences last May. Following the event there was a discussion with the writers and a moderator, as well as some Q&A from the audience. We have excerpts below broken into things about the first movie, plus a few tidbits on the next.

Most of the WGA crowd (with some SAG members too) were there to see "Star Trek" for the first time

Orci and Kurtzman talk fans and the first Star Trek
Much of the discussion for the evening went over familiar ground as most in the audience were seeing Trek for the first time. Plus, being that this was a WGA event, much of the discussion was ‘shop talk’ about their process, making pitches, etc. However, many of the hot button issues of Star Trek came up, here are some key excerpts.

On consulting with the fans (at TrekMovie) and other sources of research:

Orci: Because we were fans, we were so aware of how we would feel if we were fans watching a couple of jerks screwing it all up. So, we very much interacted with fans. One of the websites, we are on TrekMovie.com a lot. We would read the reactions of what fans had to say about what they were learning and very much imagined ourselves being on those forums commenting and wondering what we would be saying if we knew nothing. And the opinions were getting were lining up with what we were doing…if you are a fan you are going to have a top 40 things that you would want to see in Star Trek. We always tried to keep in touch with our inner basic fan and not try and over think it, and we got lot of amazing feedback off the Internet and off of reading fan fiction, and reading the novels. We really immersed ourselves because we knew this is not ours, this is something that we were being asked to take of for a while. And we knew we were taking care of it on behalf of people like us.

On making changes while reconciling canon

Orci: that is why we didn’t agree to do it until we had Leonard Nimoy as the device, both karmically and literally in the story, that changed things. We looked at the movie as a sequel to the surviving member of the Starship Enterprise, who was Spock Prime, as we called him in the script. That story can be seen from Leonard Nimoy’s point of view and as a sequel to the last member of the Enterprise. It wasn’t until we hit that, that we realized ‘that’s is how to reconcile.’ The changes are not just that we ignore everything that happened before. Those things are prologues to this movie. And Leonard Nimoy’s memories and instincts about things–all of Star Trek is filtered through him and the changes come through the actions he finds himself in. So when we came to that conclusion we thought ‘that is how Star Trek would do it.’ Some might call it cheating, but that is one of the great things about Star Trek too.

On Shatner scene (you can read that here)

Kurtzman: At the end of the day we felt that like we really poured our hearts and souls into the dialog, but it just felt like it would end up feeling like a cameo, and everyone was expecting a cameo, and for that reason we ended up going away from it.

Orci: I think it would have worked.

On Spock and Uhura kissing:

Orci: Well you know Oedipally you marry your mother [laughs], and his mother was human. Part of our take was that we were going to harmonize with canon. So in the original series, the first interracial kiss was between William Shatner and Nichelle Nichols, and we thought in this, what is the harmony of that? And the harmony is the first inter-species kiss. It is Uhura and Spock. Well, number one he is younger and not as in control of his emotions. And number two, he has just lost his mother, who he has apologized to for saying "I hope you don’t feel I am rejecting all that it human by perusing Kolinahr," the Vulcan purging of all emotions. So in losing her, showing his emotions to Uhura is a way of keeping her.

Kurtzman and Orci answering questions at WGA

Orci and Kurtzman on the Star Trek sequel (and dream projects)
There wasn’t a lot of talk about the Star Trek sequel at the event, as most of those in attendance were just getting up to speed on the first film, but it did come up. Here are some excerpts.

On the setting of the sequel:

Orci: We would never do a remake….it will be some time in the five year mission. But that is a question. Should we pick them up immediately the next day or should it be later, we are still discussing that.

On how villains are more important in second films than first franchise films

Kurtzman: I think our idea on this is that the first of any series is about them coming together or the formation. I couldn’t really tell you what Jeff Bridges was doing in Iron Man, but it doesn’t matter at all because it is all about Iron Man becoming Iron Man. Whereas I think sequels are very much about the villain. Because while [in the first one] the villain serves to bring the crew together, the second one I think has to be a true challenging of what that family is about. That is why Wrath of Khan was so amazing. Khan tested each one of them and ultimate asked for the ultimately sacrifice, and that is why that movie held up so well.

On the pressure of the sequel versus the first film:

Orci: Frankly I feel more pressure because we were so confident when we came up with the idea of how to bridge canon, and yet free ourselves from canon. Now we have no excuses for anything, now we are free. Now we don’t have the benefit of low expectations.

Kurtzman: It is true, I feel much more pressure.

On what would be their dream project (besides Trek) to be involved with:

Kurtzman: I would like to take a run at Indiana Jones, but that is a pretty closed door, so not sure that is ever going to happen.

Orci: We would like to remake Star Wars [laughs]

Bob and Alex spend extra time after the panel chatting with attendees

More to come
After the event Bob Orci did a video interview for TrekMovie, look for that soon.

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Bob and Alex–You’re so clued into the fan base that I think you’ll be successful with your new story. It’s great to know that the franchise is in such good hands. Thanks very much for your efforts and your creativity! (and Bob: I spelled your name right this time!)

Bob and Alex, if you’re reading this, you did a great job with “Star Trek”.
But I “dare you to do better”. :-)

Ah boys, I love you.

The sequel should find Spock breaking Uhrua’s heart with his Vulcan discipline & need to preserve his now threatened heritage.

Of course, as her senior officer it is entirely inappropriate to continue a relationship.

There’s a lot of meat there for drama.

We need to see Kirk facing the challenges of command, such as ordering McCoy to do something against his morals as a physician, thus testing their friendship within the command structure.

Perhaps the deployment of a bio-weapon or with holding of medical attention to an enemy.

As for a bad guy, this one should be a war parable using the klingons to personify fundamentalism.

Harry Mudd would be cool too.

Saving part three for man vs. himself through a battle against their Mirror universe counter parts.

As much as I disliked this movie (and that is a lot), I gotta give these guys props for trying, and for being generally pretty cool.

PLEASE don’t continue the S/U relationship, if you can call it that, in the sequel. It’s downgrading on Spock’s character, and it’s sexist to make Uhura merely an object of attraction.

There’s the word again. “Villain.” I’ve typed it before on here…and I’ll type it again in hopes that a Supreme Court member is reading tonight.

The best villain is an idea. A tragic set of ideals. I cite my favorite Trek film…TUC. In TUC, the villain was prejudice. It was inside of Kirk (and the rest of out heros) It was an internal struggle that ultimately needed to be dealt with inside Kirk’s head. Of course…prejudice as a villain was made even better when given the face and acting talents of Chris Plummer. (with the help of other saboteurs.)

Find an idea…find a belief…and make that the challenge that must be overcome

“Orci: I think it would have worked.”

Hell yes it would have. At the very least, JJ should have got it on film, and if it still didn’t feel right, okay. But the Shatner ending was TOO good to abstractly decide that it wouldn’t have worked. It should’ve been filmed.

“Orci: We would never do a remake….it will be some time in the five year mission. But that is a question. Should we pick them up immediately the next day or should it be later, we are still discussing that.”

Hmmm. If you pick up the sequel sometime in the 5 year mission, with a bunch of time elapsed, it seems to me you miss some of the dramatic potential suggested in the first movie. I would really like to see Kirk’s character develop in the way that you guys have Shatner/Kirk speak of in the unfilmed scene of ST.09, where he talks about them all being so young and having to earn the respect of the crew. I want to SEE what Kirk does to silence the doubters. Okay, he was given command, but now I want to see him prove he should KEEP it.

And if it’s years later, it’s not impossible, but it seems like it would be harder and less ORGANIC to show that, because they are already in the midst of their explorations and presumably that would have already taken place without us having witnessed it.

“it will be some time in the five year mission” -bob

Interesting… I’m presuming the sequel will be set a few years after the first movie. I doubt the Enterprise went off on her 5 year mission right after a immature captain takes the reigns….

Anyways, Sounds like their planning on going with the villain model for the sequel… instead of the nature of the adventure being the villain. I smell Khan all over this sequel ! Its inevitable….. I’m dying to watch Khan again ! It would be soo cool to watch Khan… specially on the 30th anniversary of Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan. 2012 – 1982 = 30 years.

oh yeaaaaaaa !

Alex explains his rejection of the Shatner/Kirk part in the movie as, “It would end up feeling like a cameo, and everyone was expecting a cameo….”

To which I ask….

So what?

Is there something intrinsically bad about cameos?

That the scene would have too much resembled a cameo hardly seems like a sound reason for excising it, given all of its potential benefits.

It would be great to get an elaboration on Alex’s rationale.

Spock/Uhura is totally great and makes them BOTH more interesting characters. It ties the new Spock to his humanity a very real way that cannot be tossed out lightly. And it says much of Uhura’s openness, her own inner diversity, and the new world humanity lives in. The modern Trek television shows never mentioned any Starfleet fraternity rules so there’s no need to pretend they exist.

It’s just as demeaning, by the way, to assume a woman must be sexless to be professional as it is to say she must live with sexual harassment for her gender. It disappoints me to see so many fans say that on this board.

When the sequel takes place?

Easy………….within the 5 year mission, but leave it indiscriminate……the crew are getting along, but have a few of them still looking at Kirk with a WTF kind of doubt……it could be a month into the mission, it could be a year. Pike’s getting out of that wheelchair could have taken place in either time frame. No need to spell it out. Just give us a great story!

I’m less than enthusiastic about Spock/Uhura. I understand and accept the reasoning behind doing it for ST.09, but I definitely do not want to see Spock become a pointy eared human.

I love the new movie but I hope that the next one will have less plot holes and scientific inaccuracies. I don’t mean that the science must be always right, it is after all a fictional movie about the future, but is should be plausible and believable in the context of the movie.

Then I hope that the sequel will play in a time shortly after the last movie. I like to see the crew get used to their jobs, after all most of them were cadets and have never worked on a starship before. Especially Kirk should have at least slight problems of adjustment to his new job and responsibilities.

The destruction Vulcan and the weakening of the Federation and the military, political, economical changes coming from this shouldn’t be completely ignored. The near genocide of all Vulcans will have left a power vacuum in the Federation itself.

I further hope that the Klingons won’t be the villains. After the destruction of a lot of their ships they should be too weak for an attack on the Federation anyway. Also no Romulans, Khan or other races which aren’t mentioned in TOS, but in TNG, DS9 or VOY. Personally I think the Gorn would be nice. ;-) Or a movie more about internal conflicts in the Federation, a completely new villain race, a strange phenomenon in space threatening lives, and so on. Just be creative and don’t rehash things which have already done to death, mainly Klingons, Romulans, Borg and Khan. And the most important thing you shouldn’t repeat: DON”T THREATEN EARTH DIRECTLY! Earth was already so often nearly destroyed in Star Trek, that is it getting lame and no one ever thought that Earth will really be destroyed to begin with. At least with other planets we can still wonder.

I wouldn’t have a problem with the S/U relationship if I thought those characters have a certain chemistry between them, but sadly they don’t. So their relationship seems forced for me and unbelievable relationships are something which should be avoided. So please break them up. There are a lot of possibilities how to do it which could even be an interesting story point.

I had no idea what Star Trek was until I saw the new movie and became addicted to the show. Now after submersing myself into Star Trek. PLEASE break-up Spock and Uhura!!!! They are not meant for each other it is suppose to be Kirk/Spock, and if you dont want to show them romantically then at least show what a powerful friendship that they have.Besides in the movies it was hinted that Scottie and Uhura were an item. I mean come on in TOS in TSFS Kirk gives up the Enterprise for Spock. That as to be the most ridiculously romantic thing I have ever seen, and I have seen The Notebook. Also, there has to be more McCoy!!

Umm … I think the first inter-species kiss might have been done by Taylor and Zira, forty years ago, in “Planet of the Apes.”

#5: Amen.

“I think it would have worked.”


“So in the original series, the first interracial kiss was between William Shatner and Nichelle Nichols, and we thought in this, what is the harmony of that? And the harmony is the first inter-species kiss. It is Uhura and Spock.”

Um-wha? :(

The modern “harmony” of a milestone in media history which challenged not only social norms but also the executives in charge of the show … is a kiss between a guy with prosthetic ears and a girl … _without_ prosthetic ears? The Uhura/Spock relationship challenges nothing. Well … nothing except the nervous systems of some of our more delicate fans. If the Spock/Uhura kiss were any safer, it’d be made of NERF.

That said, I’m _not_ one of our more delicate fans [insert your own joke here], and I think Spock and Uhura making out is fun. But if the way we got there is O&K’s idea of “harmonizing” with the Kirk/Uhura kiss, then that illustrates (I think) a vast disconnect between this writing process, and what Star Trek has been, and can be.

[having done my best to express my point respectfully, but hopefully with a sense of genuine WTF]

@ 8

“I want to SEE what Kirk does to silence the doubters. Okay, he was given command, but now I want to see him prove he should KEEP it.”

I completely agree with you! ;-)

#16: “Umm … I think the first inter-species kiss might have been done by Taylor and Zira, forty years ago, in “Planet of the Apes.””

Or well before, in the pulp-sci-fi that predates Trek. And even if we limit it only to Star Trek, there are probably enough to make a substantial YouTube mashup video ….

So not that everyone think I contradict myself: I like to see that Kirk has slight problems to adjust to his new role as a captain but in the end he should of course prove what a great and capable captain he is. ;-)

Your comment made me laugh but I understand it. I never considered what they had as romantic but I did think what they had was a brother type relationship based on pure trust and concern for the others well-being. I think that’s why Im so attached to them, their relationship was like no other and no one has since achieved it.

Im so relieved to see how these two care so much for the series. I can sleep well at night knowing my series is being cared for :)

@15. I couldn’t agree more. I look at the way they’re laying out the series right now and I just don’t see how they’re going to get to that great Kirk/Spock friendship.

I just don’t see any connection between Spock and Uhura at all. Everything she does with him looks forced. I was a fan of the original series before i watched the new film, and i loved the film except for that relationship. Frankly i was horrified, as were many other people i know, because it just doesn’t work. For one thing, Spock would never have allowed student-teacher fraternisation, because of the number of problems it would cause. He hasn’t learnt to loosen up yet, as Kirk teaches him to do in TOS. When Uhura touches him, there is no reaction in him. The only ones who inspired an emotional reaction in him are Kirk and Amanda. If he loved Uhura so much that he would risk fraternisation laws, surely she would inspire such a response? I mean, he is half human.
On anothr note though, i want to congratulate the production team, directers, writers, etc on such a brilliant new star trek film. I adored all the rest of it, and it stayed so true to the characters and personalities.

Zachary Quinto and Zoe Saldana were so good that their relationship didn’t seem like a problem at the time. But thinking about it, it really up-ends Spock’s entire character arc, did you not realise that? He spends a few years of the series and a movie or three coming to terms with his feelings of friendship for Kirk–that entire span of development, his chief arc through the whole series, is gone if he already has a secure relationship with a human whether it’s Uhura or anyone else. I don’t mind the idea in itself; Uhura is great and Spock is great–but it seems like you’ve written yourself into a corner and are going to have to really work hard to get out of it, especially to keep the focus on Kirk and Spock without relegating Uhura to the sidelines more than you should. I really hope you’ll prove me wrong and do something that stands on its own without depending entirely on being distracted by two good actors.

Spock and Uhura just…no. Please. In TOS Uhura’s character was extremely limited because of the culture of the 1960’s (come on, she was basically a space receptionist). Now the new film at least depicts her as an educated, intelligent being (then again, the same can be said for the new Chekov), but I felt everything that had been gained was lost when she was made Spock’s love interest! Why can’t we have a female that is NOT simply there to “stand by her man” AND be a bleeding heart on top of it? TOS Uhura was just as apt at fighting as the boys (as seen in Mirror Mirror) and let’s not forget the original (female) Number One that was the inspiration for Spock! I’m sick of these emotional clingy roles given to female actors. Roddenberry didn’t want those roles in the 1960’s and yet in 2010 there is absolutely no change (not counting the TNG series and beyond).

I also disliked the lack of Spock/McCoy interaction within the film. Those two were the funniest part of TOS and yet they had one scene together.

Bob and Alex you guys are amazing.

If you do Khan, would be cool to see him integrated into Star Fleet at first, finishing it in not 4 years or 3 but in 6months or less. A scene showing him with his solution to the KM simulation would be wow.

Would be cool to see your version of Indiana Jones/SW.

I’ll preface this by saying that I loved the movie, I thought the plot engaging and I love the additional depth given to the characters, particularly Kirk. But randomly pairing Spock with Uhura bothered me from a TOS canon perspective that had nothing to do with gender/interracial/Hollywood’s need to appeal to ‘in love with love’ teenie boppers by throwing in random romantic connections (I might add that several Star Trek movies, including the ingenious “Wrath of Khan” did very well *without* it)… okay, so maybe that last part bothered me a little, but just because I’m getting sick of it. If I wanted schmoopy, ill-timed and overly saccharine romance I would have been among the hordes going to see “New Moon”, not in line to see Star Trek the multiple times I did pay to see it.

Fact of the matter was that Spock was betrothed at the age of seven to his intended, T’Pring (see “Amok Time”, season two), this is established cannon. As this betrothal was a Vulcan cultural normality and all Vulcan children were thus bonded, this is one deed that cannot be explained away by an ‘alternate reality’. Spock and Uhura pursuing romantic interest while Spock is engaged resonates suspiciously to me like cheating. A bit troublesome. Even if we were to assume that T’Pring died when Vulcan did, and wasn’t among the survivors, Spock jumping immediately into a relationship with Uhura resonates as kind of… tacky. Yes, we later find out that T’Pring is a bit of an… evil word that rhymes with witch, but at this point in time, for as young as Spock was here, he didn’t know that yet and thus should have considered himself ‘off the market’.

Another case to point. Uhura was romantically paired with Scotty in the TOS movies. Their romance was always done subtlety and not a major point of the plot nor shown through excessive use of tongue, but it was adorable and I loved it. I resent that Star Trek cannon was ignored to throw a bit of romance into a film that really would have been just as fabulous without it. To me the Spock/Uhura scenes seemed kind of… token. Star Trek is better than that. The two of you are excellent writers, you’re better than that.

There are many kinds of love, not all of it involving making out on transporters. The love that those characters, all seven of them, on that crew had for each other was what made Star Trek so endearing, what made it stick in our hearts till this day. Why cheapen that dynamic with a romance instead of focusing on the friendships and bonds that gave the original series its heart?


Relationship dynamics aside, the most exciting thing I’ve read is evidence of someone who had no idea what Star Trek was and is now converted.
I think the strongest thing this movie ever did was to alert people to a franchise that let’s be honest was flagging! If the demograph exists you can bet your bottom dollar that new incarnations of Trek may indeed be possible. I wouldn’t even mind a new TV show in the Alt universe, and it’s down to what the writers did.
I think perhaps some scenes that Trek fans have found hard to swallow may have had a positive effect on people unaware of the franchise. Sometimes we gotta shake things up!! I only see the destruction of vulcan as evidence of writers who are not afraid to cut against the grain, and remember these are Trek fans who wouldn;t do something for the sake of giving the finger to the sacred followers. As I mentioned before however the sequel now has endless possibilities and it would be nice to not necessarily have a linear story. Would love to be wondering WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? in the next film along with the crew. Kirk rubbing the scorch marks of the side of the Voyager probe and the realisation of what it was. Now that’s Sci Fi and that for me will always be the TREK!!!

Ha ha fun time had by all that night! Those guys are the real deal, and as down to earth as you can be. It was a fun experience for someone who has seen the movie countless times to sort of “see it again for the first time” with an audience that consisted of 80% new viewers for.
I was lucky enough to be there and to ask a question, and of course give props to Trekmovie.com while I had the floor! (Although Bob brought up Trekmovie as one of his main fan consulting sources pretty much in the first answer he had..) And thanks for giving Datalore a little face time in the last pic, Anthony! I look like a kid who was just saved by Superman!

@11: “It’s just as demeaning, by the way, to assume a woman must be sexless to be professional”

Sure, if she’d actually been professional. Instead, she places her superior officer’s (and supposed partner’s) career in jeopardy by flying in the face of fraternization regulations, uses her relationship with a commanding officer to demand a transfer that betters her own career, and leaves her post to question her acting-captain on a direct order.

I wouldn’t mind seeing more of Spock and Uhura…but only if they develop Uhura as a character in her own right first. I wasn’t fond of the way she was portrayed in XI. Loved the rest of it, though.

Yes, you are now ‘free from low expectations’. God help you. ;) The thing is, with that comes a responsibility to develop what you’ve started. You don’t have the benefit of a three-season TV series that develops the relationships between the characters before they get onscreen. This Kirk and Spock don’t yet have the relationship that they did–and we know that’s where it’s supposed to go, since Spock Prime, meddling old man that he is, manipulated the heck out of them to push them in that direction. Which was awesome–but there’s still only so much Spock Prime saying ‘this is how things are meant to be’ is going to work. They still have to get there on their own. You have to SHOW them getting there. You have to get to the point where Kirk will blow up the Enterprise because there’s a chance of saving Spock (not that that exact scenario has to happen, but as bad as STIII was, that was heartbreaking and MADE SENSE).

They don’t have the background of having been close at the Academy. They’ve had one successful mission where they trusted each other, but there’s going to be a lot of rocky ground, and you need to cover that with us, the audience, before it rings true. Oh, if you don’t, your fanbase will work around it. It’ll be rewritten all over the internet, and we’ll just say “Well, it’s a starting point, even though it’s pretty weak” instead of “Wow, that was awesome,” and I hope you’d rather aim for the second! We’re Star Trek fans, some of us grew up that way, we’re not going anywhere–but we’re not automatically going to like everything you do, either.

As for cameos–nothing wrong with ’em. And that scene as it was passed around would have broken a lot of hearts, in a good way!

Spock/Uhura–dear lord, what WERE you thinking? And by the way, you are very confused about the parallels between ‘first actual interracial kiss on US television’ and ‘kiss between people who are totally the same species except that one is pretending to be an alien.’ Zachary Quinto is not actually an alien, Nichelle Nichols actually IS black. The first one broke down barriers and the show took a lot of flack for making it, this just…I mean, okay, you wanted it, but don’t pretend it’s making a big statement. You did it because you knew it would throw people for a loop, and that’s not really an excuse for writing those characters into a corner. You shot yourselves in the leg with that one. As someone else pointed out, Spock was already engaged (or did you reboot all of Vulcan’s culture before blowing it up, too?) and it seems terribly unlike him to be having a relationship with a student. Or a human. Or, frankly, anybody. He’s supposed to GET to that point, during the course of the story–not show up like that at the beginning.

Still, props to you for having come up with a movie that was well-cast, well-acted, a lot of fun, and made us ignore the inconsistencies at least for a while. ;) If you don’t like that we’re picking it apart now–look, it’s Star Trek. What did you expect?

Bob and Alex: I cannot express how much gratitude I had upon seeing the film last May…you were faced with a daunting task, but excelled on so many levels! Thank you!

I was ecstatic when I heard that Christopher Pike was going to be a major character…what a nice nod to the original series, and in particular to the first pilot.

In following this theme, I think the idea of making Gary Mitchell a part of the sequel would be an additional quaint nod, as well as a nice homage to the second pilot…perhaps not a major part, maybe a short scene or two, but his inclusion would solidify to the fans your commitment and respect to Star Trek’s 40+ year history!

I invite you all to view a Facebook Group supporting this notion, and to take a shot at writing your own introductory scene for Gary!


I cannot believe this thread somehow became the Uhura &Spock issue of People magazine!

Seriously, people! They blew up a planet! They sent a Corvette off a cliff! They base-jumped from space! All you can talk about is Spockura!

For shame, SHAME!

P.S. Alex & Bob, you guys did a great job, and the sequel will also be great. I would like to see it occur immediately after the first film ends.
Thank you.

Gary Mitchell sure looks like Daniel Craig.

@33–I suppose we could have dwelled on how ejecting the thing that makes your ship go fast is maybe not the VERY best way of escaping the black hole about to swallow you up, but then we’d have to explain how black holes actually work, and it’s late and there’s TV on, and honestly, we’re used to the cheesy science. Red matter. Got it. Somebody parked the TARDIS in a wormhole or something.

That and I assume the writers already know there is a special place in hell for people who destroy classic Corvettes. ;)

If these writers do Khan I feel a lot of Trek fans will walk away from these movies.

Am I the only one who feels they are not that great.

Star Trek XI was a fun movie but to me it suffered from plot holes and contrivances large enough for a Galaxy Class starship to fly through.

Brannon Braga, Manny Coto, Ira Behr, Michael Pillar, Ron D Moore are better writers in my opinion,

Also DC Fontana, Nicholas Meyer.

And I hate these guys scripts for the Transformers movies. So inane


Nobody knows for sure what happened to the corvette, all you see is it falling but never see the impact. Who is to say in a future episode or movie that Kirk or someone somehow saved his fathers corvette via time travel.

Perhaps it was transwarp time beaming, the ability to beam someone or something through space and time. Perhaps this is how they save Vulcan, and USS Kelvin.

I like the movie even better after reading this. The Spock/Uhura stuff makes a lot more sense to me now. I’m still hoping they (Spock & Uhura) are already broken up and over each other in the next movie. Maybe a scene where Spock is talking to a guy, and Uhura comes up and kisses the other guy, and Spock isn’t upset at all. He’s moved on and in full “Vulcan” mode.

So my vote is for having the second movie take place sometime well after the first one ends. Maybe even a year or more.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, you named some great writers but I will go with my friends and wife who was Star Trek neutral until they saw Star Trek 2009. So the litmus test is not just myself and my opinion but the people who finally crossed over and can enjoy Star Trek with me. I loved the fact that they loved it and that made me very happy, for they finally saw the light.

the Spock and Uhura function did not work for me and I felt the transporter scene did not work for me, felt a bit out of character for Spock.

@38 You know, you may be on to something there. ;)

Adding to message #39:

Spock can’t be Spock if he has a girlfriend. That’s why I want to relationship to end. Spock must be lonely and alone in the world to be my “Spock.”

And I want my Spock back!


Spock and Kirk was not friends at that point in the film so the writers felt they needed a outlet for Spock to show his loss, he needed a shoulder to cry on, someone that was female that can show his emotional side beneath the icy cold Vulcan demeanor. I am sure it was merely a device to be used in one movie only. I would hate to see Uhura become counsellor Troi, Zoey is capable of a more wider role.

ABout canon are they implying that its ok to change canon because Spock is there from our universe.

I thought that they did a parallel universe so that the movie runs as a side to th rest of Trek canon.

Is there an inconsistency I am missing?

their reasoning for the kissing scene makes sense and I used that theory to get round it because it was so out of character for the real Spock.

Can I ask are these writers talking about making Spock more emotional due to the destruction of Vulcan in this universe?

If so I hope they don’t it will change the essence of Spock.


I think it was more of a transitional statement, sometime something is easier to digest if you see something familiar and understand how model a become model b.


do you treat it as a parallel universe, I do treat it as a separate universe.

I do prefer what came before


Spock got his moms support for him to through Kulinar.

“Whatever you choose to be you will have a proud mother.”

But now that Spock mom died he may honor her memory by not going through it, then again he knows his mom would feel guilty if he had choose not to do it simply because she died. I think he will go through Kulinar and be the Spock that we all know and love but at the same time, Quinto will add his style to Spock.