Two weeks ago TrekMovie hosted a fan panel at the Creation Star Trek Star Convention to discuss the 2009 Star Trek movie, and the 2012 sequel. Joined by Larry Nemecek, Mary Czerwinski and Vernon Wilmer, we (and the audience) discussed and debated the new universe of Star Trek. You can watch video of the full panel below.
Las Vegas Con Fan Panel on Star Trek 2009 and 2012
At the Star Trek convention in Las Vegas I hosted a panel called "Star Trek From a Fan’s Perspective" which was an opportunity for fans to talk about the 2009 Star Trek movie and the coming 2012 Trek sequel. Joining me were a collection fellow ‘super fans’ Vernon Wilmer (director of "Star Trek: My Experience"), Mary Czerwinski (“Televixen” from www.dvdgeeks.tv) and writer and former Star Trek Communicator editor Larry Nemecek (www.larrynemecek.com). The panel and audience discussed and debated elements of the first movie, including issues with canon. We also talked about the sequel, including sharing an update on writing progress (with a picture) from Star Trek co-writer Roberto Orci. Here is the full video (note it is 44 minutes long).
It was a fun panel and I want to thank Vernon for being the ‘token purist’ who brought an important voice to the discussions. For me the most interesting stuff came from the audience. Most of the audience were first time convention attendees, who were new (or renewed) fans because of the new movie. Almost all in attendance were fans of the film, but of course there was lots of nitpicking. Here are some highlights from audience feedback:
- Most understood movie used alternative timeline to link back to previous canon, although only half saw new timeline as "parallel" to original prime timeline
- Most had a problem with Kirk’s rapid promotions
- A majority weren’t happy with Spock/Uhura relationship, but interestingly most of those who liked it were women
- Almost unanimous agreement that Khan should not be the villain for the Star Trek sequel
- Most want to see Klingons in the sequel
Finally, a big thanks to John Champion of www.DVDGeeks.tv who shot and edited the video.
Oh dear. Please no more Klingons. :-(
I can’t find myself in agreement with you, Buzz. Sure, they’ve been damn near done to death, but importantly, they haven’t been done by JJ Abrams and his crew. In fact, the deleted scenes with them in the new film seemed rather interesting, IMO.
From a box office standpoint, I think it would be a wise decision, too. People are now engaged in this new product and some analysts are predicting a turnout for the new film approaching the explosion that was “The Dark Knight” in 2008. What better way to ensure that than to bring in that one race whose name is familiar to many non-Trekkies but was quite conspicuously absent from the first film? Indeed, “the Klingons are back and they want Kirk’s blood” would get a lot of casuals talking.
It might not be the coolest idea, it sure as hell ain’t the most original and it will no doubt be seen as a cop-out to some folks. But I think it makes the most sense.
Glad to hear that most don’t want Khan to be in the next movie. I could do with Klingons, they haven’t been in a Trek movie since Generations and even then they were only a side villain. They haven’t been the true antagonists since VI which was in 91, so its been close to two decades. I hope its just not generic Klingons, though, Kirk needs a cunning Klingon to face off against. But hey, as long as its not Khan or Mudd I’m ok with it. Also glad to see that most didn’t like the Spock/Uhura thing, they seriously need to drop that by the next film. It felt forced to me like just randomly, “hey, Spock and Uhura are together, just to piss off Kirk, deal with it.” But it seems like they listen to the fans so that gives me hope.
I didn’t mind the Spock and Uhura relationship
4 I didn’t like personally but it didn’t ruin the film from me
I was at part of the panel but because of a photo op I had to miss a bit of this, thank you for having it on video. I can catch it later.
In regards to the timelione business I accept it as a parallel universe that does not invalidate what came before. I do feel that if it had invalidate past Trek’s then more fans would not have been happy with film.
But I do understand the confusion as it is not very clear in the film other than Uhura saying Alternative Reality.
I got the new expanded edition of the score at the con and now I love the music for StarTrek XI a lot more. So glad I bought it.
Hearing fan opinion at the con has allowed me to mellow on my gripes with the movie. I now look forward even more to next film.
I did raise my hand at con for no Khan and not liking the Spock and Uhura relationship.
Regarding canon, I just treat the new movie as a separate entity.
Surely all parallel universes are just realities where the timeline has been altered somehow from the Prime timeline? So this alternative timeline the movie has created is indeed a now a parallel universe, no?
The girl with the audience mike is hot, in a stern sort of way
#3 Jeff, you are so right. Well about the klingons having indeed been done to death.
I want something new and original from the new team. I’m honestly staggered at the lack of imagination shown by the people that want more of the same.
#9 I would totally be in the same boat as you if this were a true reboot. But it isn’t. This is a divergent timeline. I would expect everything to be the same in this universe except the things that have been changed by Nero (which is significant, I admit). And Klingons were HUGE in the Prime timeline and I haven’t seen anything that has changed that in this new timeline.
I wish they would have just done a straight up reboot. Not to invalidate what has come before, the reboot should have been based on that legacy, but a fresh start would have been good (IMHO).
Why can’t some accept Nu Trek?
It’s strange that they would not want a character who has only appeared twice in the franchise history, yet they’d want to see the Klingons who have appeared more times than anyone can count.
Khan is Kirk’s arch nemesis.
Like Lex Luthor is Supermans, like The Master is The Doctors.
You bring out the best drama in your characters when you have them confront their arch nemesis.
Klingons been done to death… boring!
Khan has barely been touched on!
I think the next movie should be an orignal and not something we have seen. If you have klingons then have them help starfleet against some new threat and not a threat that has been done before. The one thing I would most want changed in the Next Trek Movie is a new and better Engerneering section and not the Brewery we got in 09. As for Spock and Uhurah im ok with it. There were some Hints at it in Tos.
The big question about Klingons (for everyone who watched ENTERPRISE & DS9) is will they be the human looking Klingons (who tried to use the human genetic enhancements and ended up just looking human) or the WORF variety Klingon we were introduced to us in STTMP.
#14. I think we may see a Combo. Remember that on the Enterprise Eps we seen how the Klingons became Human looking when they tried to use the Augment Virus to make them stronger but of course it almost backfired and Dr Pholx was able to find the cure for the Virus but left most Klingons looking Human. At some point they are able to retake there form as you see then in the Movies and Tng. Case in point. Kang and Kolof and Kor were human looking on Tos but in Ds9 they got there Klingon forms back and in the Voyager Ep when Tuvok and Janeway did the Mind Meld we see Capt Sulu on the Excelsior Talking to Kang and he had his Ridges back. So it is possible that we may see some Klingons with the ridges and some not.
Ah so thats what you look like anthony!
good to put a face to the name!
I like the Spock/Uhura relationship and I’m a dude, so take that! Honestly though, there were hints in TOS. And at least it wasn’t the Uhura/Scotty relationship from Star Trek V. *shudder*
Count me in among those who thought Kirk should not have risen to Captain, in one move from the Academy. IMHO it sends completely the wrong message about earning a reputation.
I mean I could join the army and take a bullet for the General, but that wouldn’t automatically lead to a high promotion. You would need to show years of experience leading your peers and Kirk shown none of that. Indeed in the one instance he’s famous for, the Kobayashi Maru, he cheats and treats a psychologically demanding test like it’s a joke!
I still can’t buy that rise to power. Yes, it’s fantasy but every previous iteration of Star Trek dealt with promotion with far more realism.
#17 Kirk didn’t just take a bullet. He devised a battle plan that saved Earth from the fate Vulcan suffered, rescued his commanding officer (Capt Pike), and when he had disabled the Romulan Ship, he offered them assistance (the right thing to do and shows he understands the founding principals of Starfleet). He did it all right, and he did it when everyone else said it couldn’t be done.
Yeah… well, Riker, Data and Worf saved their captain and Earth from the Borg and they got diddly squat when it came to promotions. Heck, Riker was even demoted from his field commission in the next episode. Guess honoring Admiral Hanson’s memory by keeping Riker a captain must’ve rubbed somebody the wrong way at Starfleet HQ. Or maybe Billy Boy really was afraid of the big chair… ;)
Anyway, I wouldn’t take promotions too seriously when it comes to Star Trek. I mean, look at ST6:TUC. Just how many captains and commanders did they have on that darn ship?
I think so many people are against Khan because they simply can’t appreciate the endless dramatic and creative opportunities a new timeline opens up for the character.
Think back to all of the Bat-Fans who vehemently opposed a new take on the Joker in The Dark Knight. Then, after seeing the movie, they all changed their mind – and SURPRISE – it won the late Heath Ledger an Oscar and helped garner unprecedented critical acclaim for a super-hero movie.
I personally would be excited to see a new take on Khan and his relationship with Kirk. The possibilities are endless when you think of all of the different ways Khan his crew could be discovered and awakened. (By the Klingons, the Romulans, the Borg – or our new Enterprise crew)
I hope the new high court of trek doesn’t compromise just to pacify overtly vocal fans who wouldn’t know how to tell a good story if their lives depended on it. JJ – go with your gut to create the BEST Trek story and the most exciting movie you can – whether it be Khan or Klingons or even Borg. It worked for Nolan – it will work for you.
I can’t wait to see this movie.
7. Holo J – August 21, 2010
if there are klingons in the new movie, it would be cool if they were rampaging around the place being brutal to everyone they come into contact with. they could board a ship and savagely tear everyone up, like how they were in all the other series talking about drinking blood and killing people where they stand, etc etc, lets see some of that savagery so they are actually scary. and i guess since they found the narada in the comic, maybe that couldve advanced their tech so that they can just go around blowing the hell out of stuff. wasnt there an explanation for the new look starfleet ships that the kelvin came into contact with the narada and starfleet became scared and made ships bigger? ( 2000 foot enterprise ) . i guess the same could be said of the klingons, they captured it right? couldnt they examine the thing a bit closer than just a few scans the kelvin got. i still havent read the nero comic yet though,and that is all if the klingons are actually in it. however, what ever the writers come up with, i’m sure it will be exceptional, they seem to have an accurate feel for the essence of what would make a good trek film.
#20 Go back and watch the episode sir. Riker turned down the Captain’s chair. He said “My career plans are my own business”. He elected to stay on the Enterprise, the Flagship of the Federation, where the real action was (as opposed to being Captain on a much lesser ship and therefore his efforts might be more easily overlooked, by staying on the Enterprise, he stayed in the spotlight). This was a brilliant move as he would later become “Commander Starfleet”.
Hey Bob. In Trek 12 if you have Klingons have some of them like in the Tos and some with the ridges. That would keep up with what happend from Tos to The Motion Picture. What do you think.
Hey Bob Orci. Here is an idea. Maybe show how the Klingons went from looking like they did on Tos to like they did in the Motion Picture.
#26 They already did that on Star Trek Enterprise.
@ 26 Capt Mike of the Terran Empire
They already did show that ! In a episode of Enterprise. The augments story arc.
if we bring back the klingons can we not bring back the klingons in the deleted scenes from Star trek 2009? Those helmets looked horrible. Also they sounded like lame fans attempting to speak klingon rather than a decent actor who was coached like in the past.
No. I mean how they found the cure to turn them back into the Klingons we see in Tmp.
Klingons in the new movie? Yes I say.
I would even like to Kang, Kor, Koloth (WITH ridges) or Kruge.
However, the story should be something new, not retold.
The promotion thing–I had such a good time watching the movie so I let it slide, but it doesn’t stand up to repeat viewings on DVD.
The same fools who can’t wrap their heads around “Alternative Timeline” lap up the “Mirror Universe”.
In this parallel universe, Scotty was actually sitting next to his son in the transporter room and he didn’t know it. :)
@34 Now that’s what I call parallel!
Thank you for the video much appreciated! It felt like I was there in the auditorium bravo!
My thoughts on the rapid promotion – they could have skipped the whole problem by doing an “11 years later” sort of thing. I know they wouldn’t have looked any older but that would have been better than the surreal promotion.
Kirk was rapidly promoted because he helped save Earth and the Enterprise.. Durh.
Kirk saved Earth in TMP – No promotion
Saves Earth in STIV – doesn’t stay Admiral because of his actions in STIII, which apparently outweigh saving Earth from the Whale probe.
And as was mentioned, Kirk wasn’t the only person involved in saving everything, his crew played a role but they didn’t get huge, unrealistic promotions.
But what’s done is done. I am glad they have the whole crew together for the next film, I just think it could have been reached in a better way.
I say No Khan because there can never be a replacement for Ricardo Montalban.
Kirk got the Enterprise in TMP, and Decker was demoted.
I’ve just watched the video and felt compelled to comment! I can’t understand the logic of these fans. Consider the following.
They say ‘Give us something new: not just a ‘remake’; we don’t want a new-look Khan’. But then they immediately suggest having new-look Klingons, even mentioning specific old characters such as Kor and Kang etc!
They say ‘Khan’s been done already; so give us the Klingons’. But Khan has been done twice: the Klingons have been done hundreds of times! Khan would be a comparative ‘breath of fresh air’.
They say ‘Khan’s been done amazingly well; so give us the Klingons’. But perhaps Khan can be done amazing well again. Besides, are they suggesting that the Klingons haven’t been done ‘amazingly’ well? What about TUC? What about episodes such as Redemption, Way of the Warrior, etc.
They say ‘Vulcan’s destruction must impact upon the new story and Spock’. But we can’t assume that people who see the sequel will have seen Star Trek 09. New fans shouldn’t be confused by prior events they haven’t necessarily seen: events that the filmmakers can’t assume have been seen. When you start relying heavily on prior films you alienate new fans. This is what went wrong with Star Trek in the first place…
I say that Star Trek 2009 was very good, and that the filmmakers should essentially follow that same formula. However, I would like to see better production design with a proper Star Trek engineering set. And either Khan or the Borg would make an excellent villain (both are out there in the new timeline: the latter, thanks to Enterprise). N.B., Montalban cannot ever be replaced. However, he can be recast. The same is true of Shatner and Nimoy & co. Just give us a good, compelling, character-driven and action-packed film and we’ll all be happy.
#40 A fair comment on the issue!
#22 Bob Orci, if this timeline is parallel to the Prime timeline, let’s have NuKirk meet Prime Kirk in a crossover (Pine can play both, as the timelines will be the same era) and warn him about that pesky Nexus (he could have gained foresight thru the mind-meld of Prime Kirk’s fate).
@41 – But getting both the enterprise and Captain from a cadet in one swing for doing the same thing is a bit unrealistic. And Decker’s demotion was a temporary thing that happened before Earth was saved since Decker was really the one to save Earth but Kirk got the credit anyways. I know it’s sci-fi but even in the ST universe, the ST09 promotion is unprecedented. Sure, they set it up for Kirk to be a whizkid of sorts but it still was done out of convenience to get the story to a certain desired point. As we see in the video above, I am not alone in having a slight problem with it.
Other ST examples:
Saved Earth from the Borg in First Contact – received no reward
Essentially saved Earth in Nemesis – got a seat belt for his chair
Saved Earth from the Xindi & Sphere Builders – got some schools named after him, no promotion to Admiral until after several years of service and presumably saved Earth from the Romulan invasion.
I would almost think that it’s time that this crew of the Enterprise had their villian, something new and original.
Kirk had the Klingons, Picard had the Borg, Sisko had the Dominion, Janeway got Borg-Lite and Archer got the Xindi. NuKirk should have a new bad guy.
Um, yeah, I just watched “Best of Both Worlds” on BBC-A last night. Shelby said she assumed Riker could have any command in the fleet. C’mon, the Enterprise can’t be the only ship that sees lots of action (I’m reminded of a certain tough little ship that came about from the Borg invasion.) And we all know that “my career plans are my own business” was just a cop-out to keep Frakes in the second banana chair and on the show.
Rationalize Kirk’s hyperspace jump from cadet to captain all you want. I’ll just pretend it never happened. Hopefully, the writers will too and start the sequel with a seasoned Kirk in command (like in TOS). I can do without the Pike/Obi-wan mentorship. Hmm, funny how Star Wars keeps leaping into my thoughts when thinking about this new universe…
Lol, what fleet. The fleet was destroyed by the Borg. Shelby was nuts.
Forty or so ships doesn’t constitute the entire Starfleet (yeah, I know they’re always comically undermanned, but c’mon…). Those were the only ships in range to engage the Borg cube. And I’m sure the USS Grissom-A was out there guarding against a Romulan invasion while the other ships were being built. ;)
I say bring on the Klingons,, but,,
If their ships are seen in space,, it means trouble
Keep the helmets on,, A Klingon should never remove his helmet or show his face to a human.
Keep them in the dark,,,
as we all know, theres nothing more disturbing than something you cant see.
I would love to see the return of Khan,, theres so much for the new Trek to touch on, and Im sure the genetically-engineered Human augments of the late-20th century Eugenics Wars are still out there,,
or how did the Governor Kodos killings 2246 work out in the new Trek,, ?
or will we see ,,,
George Samuel Kirk, James Kirk’s brother.
Aurelan Kirk, George Samuel Kirk’s wife, and thus James Kirk’s sister-in-law.
Peter Kirk, son of George and Aurelan Kirk.
Tiberius Kirk, James Kirk’s paternal grandfather.
Or maybe the return of Sybok ?
I cant wait to see the next Trek,,,Theres so much to touch on,with over 40 years of Trek History.
I just hope Prime Spock gets sent back to Prime Kirks fist fight, so Spock can save his freind.
It gets prime Spock back to Prime Kirk,
Kirk is saved,
Dr Soran is caught, and (may return)
Picard rides off into the sunset.
Because I would LOVE to see Shatner and Nimoy together for one last moment,, Im sure millions of other Trek fans would too.
In my eyes,The new Trek can only really move forward by its self until it deals with the ghosts of Treks past.
I cast my vote for Robert Downey Jr as Koloth!