On Thursday three Star Trek luminaries got into a funny (but pointed) exchange on Twitter. It all started with a belated Birthday wish from William Shatner to Damon Lindelof, then Brannon Braga jumped in and well you have to see it for yourself below.
Shatner, Lindelof and Braga Twitter Exchange
On Thursday Star Trek’s original Kirk William Shatner decided to give new Star Trek producer Damon Lindelof a belated birthday wish on Twitter, but he also threw in a bit of a jab about his quest to get into the JJverse.
@WilliamShatner
@damonlindelofI heard it was your bday yesterday. I would have made a fuss but you didn’t put me in your movie…TWICE!#yesiholdgrudges
Lindelof then replied with the following tweets…
@DamonLindelof
@WilliamShatner Bill, I am both wildly geeking out that you acknowledged my bday and wildly geeking out that you hold a grudge against me.
——
@williamshatner You know what else holds a grudge?The time/space continuum.Kirk fell off a cliff and died.#WhyWouldGodNeedAStarship
——
@WilliamShatner All that said, I only get to play in this universe because of YOU. And I am profoundly grateful for that. #sincere
——
@WilliamShatner Also, I’m getting a T-Shirt made that says —
"Shatner Has A Grudge Against Me So Why The Fuck Should I Care What YOU Say?"
It then seemingly ended with this exchange
@WilliamShatner
@DamonLindelof So then we’re good? ;-)
@DamonLindelof
@WilliamShatner We are BEYOND good. We are, in fact, where no good has gone before. #HolyShitBillShatnerTweetedAWinkyFaceAtMe
However, by that time veteran Star Trek writer/producer Brannon Braga was also weighing in (on the death of Kirk in Star Trek Generations which Lindelof had referred to earlier), launching another exchange…
@BrannonBraga
@DamonLindelof @WilliamShatner
Sigh. We all make mistakes…
@DamonLindelof
@WilliamShatner @BrannonBraga Somehow, this keeps getting better.
@WilliamShatner
@BrannonBraga @damonlindelof Ahhh Brannon and Damon two of the most despised in the Kirk Universe! All we need is Orci to complete trifecta!
@BrannonBraga
@DamonLindelof @WilliamShatner It was a script typo. We accidentally wrote: Killed by ‘Bridge on Kirk’ instead of ‘Kirk on the Bridge.’
That seemed to be the end of it, but a few hours later Shatner offered this.
@WilliamShatner
I abandoned you all just as soon as things got interesting on here but we finally addressed the Kirk issue on the perfect date, no less!
Thanks to Jason
Technically… Kirk was under the bridge when he died. But we was on it just before.
Hmm… I’m not sure I understand Bill’s reference to ‘the perfect date’. Sounds like everybody’s pretty cheerful about it all though…
Kirks death is totally underrated. I actually liked it. He dies in a very heroic way, by saving millions. The only bad thing is that we actually never see those people he is saving, and we do not care about them. They could have fixed that, but that would have been a totally different movie then.
They made the most of the death the flawed Generations-script could offer. They actually improved it. Dying by a bullet in the back would have been muc worse.
The falling of the bridge was way better. And as many haters always wrongly point out, it was not like a happy accident, that he fell from the bridge. He knew, that going back to the doomed bridge would actually result his death. So it was no accident, but a sacrifice.
Deal with it, the death was quite decent.
^^ you…you liked it? whaaat?
I agree I liked that we got to see Capt. Kirk on last time on the big screen making a difference I mean TNG was 80 years after his ship we wouldn’t have wanted to see him an Ancient admiral like McCoy, and they couldn’t have two legendary Captains fighting for the big chair on the Enterprise E. He got to die saving lots of lives and saving the Enterprise B. Made me sad back then but now it’s just part of history as far as Star Trek (2009) that scene they wrote would have been AWESOME but in the big picture kinda unnecessary .
@3
” ^^ you…you liked it? whaaat?”
He actually dies 2 times in a heroic way. How much more do you want?
I think Mr Shatner wrote Kirk back into life in his excellent series of books.
We just need to get that established as canon fact somehow.
Love this!
@7
Those books are just fan-service. Let him rest in peace.
Shatner is being disingenuous here. Obviously that death scene was lame, and we all know now that he and Malcom McDowell both felt that way at the time. They should have made a fuss over it and demanded for the writers to come up with a different approach to Kirk’s death.
I am not a big Bragga fan, but I don’t like Shat essentially throwing Bragga under the bus and taking no responsibility for it himself. He had no problem cashing the check for that lame Kirk death scene.
I actually liked Generations. It was far from the best Star Trek movie, but it certainly wasn’t bad. Both of Kirk’s deaths were well done. That doesn’t mean they can never bring Shatner back though. They just have to make him an older version of Chris Pine’s Kirk.
Let me correct my previous statement. I still like the death, but hated the funeral. Burried under a few rocks of an uninhabited world. As Mr Plinkett from RedLetterMedia pointed out, the wolves are probably gonna have a nice meal. Gross.
But despite that, i liked the death.
Remember this. If Kirk would have failed, Soran would have destoyed the Veridian system including the D and her crew. Then the E with the same crew would not have been in the temporal vortex following the Borg sphere, and the Borg would have successfully assimilated 2063 Earth. No Starfleet, no Federation. All that, the entire future of the Federation, was saved by Kirk’s sacrifice.
Lol that was amazing.
@ Exverlobter well he does save the enterprise crew as well.
It pisses me off that they killed Kirk, but it would have been more acceptable if Picard didn’t leave the body on that planet. it’s James fuck!ng Kirk thought dead ages ago instead trapped in temporal nexus, you get him out, helps save millions in his last heroic effort before taking his last breath and you leave his body on the planet rather than the heroes burial back on Earth. That is f@ucked up.
When I made Star Trek II, I thought Spock was dead. And I think everybody making the movie thought he was dead, when he was dying in his big scene with Kirk, there were people standing around the sound stage in tears. It was very final to us. It was too final to me…to come back and bring him back. Resurrections are beyond my…..they’re out of my bailiwick. So I didn’t.
– Nick Meyer (on why he didn’t direct Star Trek III)
@ 10
Yes, 50% of Kirk is still in the Nexus.
If Abrams wants he can bring him back for the third film. I guess the Nexus also exists in the alternative timeline.
This is all just so geekfully juicy!
Kirk’s mastery in Trek battles was always tricking his opponent into letting his guard down. Please don’t tell me that they couldn’t have come up with a scene, on the planet surface, where Kirk gets Soran to let his guard down, and then Picard destroys that missile while Kirk and Soran each exchange mortal phaser blasts.
See how easy this scene was to come up with!
Duh!!!!!
@16. Dave H,
“Please don’t tell me that they couldn’t have come up with a scene, on the planet surface”
Moreover, it occurs to me now that they never really made a good connection between Soran and Kirk. Kirk ended up in the Nexus as a direct result of Soran’s attempt to get there. Yet there was never a feeling that Kirk was pissed off about that, and that would have also upped the stakes for Kirk as he sought to shut down Soran.
@13. Factchecker,
“Resurrections are beyond my…..they’re out of my bailiwick.”
Well at least there’s one Star Trek director willing to admit this was a bad idea.
No wonder Abrams and Nimoy get along so well.
Doesn’t matter what the movie is about, bringing people back to life never feels quite right. It just kind of feels kind of like the Changling.which became TMP. Yikes — you would have thought eh would have learned their lesson by now …
Shat’s Kirk gave his proverbial life to stop what has happened to Trek today.
#ironic
I wish Shatner could be gracious about this. I mean, I can understand his desire to be a part of the new movies, but they’re not beholden to him. It’s not the job of Bad Robot to correct the poor decisions of the previous creators.
Besides, I’ve tried to read the Shatnerverse novels; I couldn’t finish the first one. I don’t think I got a quarter of the way into it.
Yawn….slow news day huh?
What is the “perfect date” Shat speaks of?
#18. You got it all wrong, which “makes we wonder” if you are smoking crack or something? :-)
He gave his life so that we could have a series of really bad NG movies, First Contact excepted. Insurrection and Nemisis — that is what he gave his life for. LOL
every party involved could make this better if they went and used the alternate ending to generations, and threw in Q.. just saying.
@21 “What is the “perfect date” Shat speaks of?”
Pamela Anderson and a bottle of Viagra?
Long Live the Shat!!!!!!
That “Bridge on the Captain” joke is Shatner’s…he’s used it as far back as the release of GENERATIONS. Further proof that Braga can’t come up with original. :)
Kirk’s death carried zero emotional content (unless you count my embarrassment at how badly Shatner played it … you’ve just been CRUSHED BY A BRIDGE … you’re not going to Disneyland … and you can not just still talk, but make normal facial expressions? Try doing any of that while you have just a routine GALLSTONE ATTACK!!!!!)
I think it was about as engaging as when Jeddah got phasered by Terrell in TWOK, if you even remember that.
But this was KIRK! How could they have screwed it up So SO badly?
You have to admit “Bridge on the Captain” is way better than Bullet in the back.
Maybe the BOBW theater presentation?
#27. kmart – April 26, 2013
Not to mention a simple thing called having the wind knocked out of you.
@2. nscates
About the “perfect date”:
http://dudeufugly.tumblr.com/post/48852713441/wander1ustt-15poundstosummer-mcgooglykins
Damon Lindelof was born on 24 April 1973, which makes it his big 4-0 birthday.
Happy Birthday, Damon Lindelof. Have a wonderful new year and many more as well… Love those gorgeous brown eyes, btw.
Oh and very cool tweets…LOL
Bob Orci nailed it with the Shatner scene. I hope he and Damon sneak it in the next film. Would be awesome to see Bill and Leonard for the 50th anniversary
Silly me, but isn’t there some remnant of Kirk still in the Nexus? An “echo” of Guinan was still in there to direct Captain Picard. He might not be able to leave, but he’s still in there. I’m sure he would love for someone to stop in and say hello sometime.
I actually wouldn’t mind owning an alternative edit of Generations, with all the deleted scenes and original ending restored.
Morbid curiosity about what that test audience rejected, I guess.
The worst thing about Generations, by far, is that Picard stupidly exited the Nexus with Kirk at a time when Soran already had the upper hand. I just don’t believe that the clever Picard would so foolishly decide to travel back in time for a redo, but begin his redo at such a dangerous time, thereby leading to the death of the awesome Captain Kirk. They wrote Generations in such a way that Picard’s stupidity is to blame for Kirk’s death.
Generations was rushed as well as heavily flawed and
There was no reason to kill off Kirk.
Just as the begining of Generations with The Enterprise-B with Kirk,Chekov and Scotty , was far more entertaining and Interesting then the Picard and Crew along with Soran part.
If Picard could come out of the Nexxus at anytime he choose,, why didn’t he just come back out when they first discovered Soran and
“clobber” him? instead of coming out with only a few minutes left before the launching of the sun killing missle?
Furthermore,,, did anyone even consider contacting Joan Collins to get her to do a cameo as Kirks true love (Edith) while in the Nexxus?
Finally,,, Shatner was informed by Berman,,, that He was going to kill off “Captain Kirk ” whether Shatner agreed to be in the movie or not.
So other than thinking, planning and taking the time to write a better story/Script…..
Nothing could have prevented the disaster,,,, that Generations became.
better ways fo Kirk to die than shot in the back/falling off a bridge:
#1 After defeating Soran Kirk and picard make their way to the crashed Ent D when kirk suddenly slips on a rock and falls hitting his head. he dies in Picards arms..
#2 Kirk and Picard get to the remains of the crashed Ent D and are beamed up to the obiting ships. Unfortuantly Kirks 23rd century DNA structure dosnt tally with the 24th century ships transporters and the computer recognises him as a virus and beams him into open space..
#3 Kirk and Picard defeat Soran, Kirk thinks for a minute and realises they must still be in the nexus.. He picks up sorans gun and shoots Picard in the head and then himself ….
@38 – regarding Joan Collins reprising her role as Edith as Kirks true love in the nexus.
nice idea but the majority of people in theatres wouldve been going ‘WTF?! Kirks one true love is Alexis Carrington?!’
but yeah better to have had it as Edith or Carol (no need to show the actress- as in the film) than Kirks well known all time love…..Antonia..
@39
“After defeating Soran Kirk and picard make their way to the crashed Ent D when kirk suddenly slips on a rock and falls hitting his head. he dies in Picards arms..”
That reminds me of the true story of german U-Boat Ace Otto Kretschmer, who survived the horrors of WWII as the most succesful ace of that war, just to die on his wedding-day by slipping during a pleasant boat-tour and subsequently dying of head-injuries.
wouldnt it have been more of a shock/twist if they hadnt killed Kirk?
everyone was expecting him to die – the secret was out of the bag even before they started shooting the movie. plus everyone knew it was gonna happen anyway as theyd killed spock in Trek II and blown up the enterprise in III – it was time for another big death.
so in that case wouldnt it have been more of a shock for audiences if he hadnt died? like if hed been ‘killed’ in the opening saving the Ent B (like spock was ‘killed’ in the opening of Trek II) but unlike spock he lives at the end.
e.g. they defeat Soran and he goes back with Picard to the Ent D. film ends with Picard and Kirk (rather than Riker) beaming up together. he wouldnt have had to appear in any of the sequels if Paramount chose not to, and itd have meant he could have appeared in JJ Abrams movie.
alternatively he could have been sucked back into the nexus somehow and would remain in there (and since wed never see the nexus again would be as good as dead anyway)
e.g. Soran is defeated/killed and Kirk and Picard are high fiving, think its all over etc then the nexus (which was visible in the sky) sort of swoops down and Picard and Kirk dive for cover in sorans workshop…everything turns orangey…then its over…Picard calls Kirks name…no answer…goes out of where they went for cover and sees the nexus leaving the atmosphere…no sign of Kirk…hes gone
(sort of like the Close Encounters abduction scene where the mother loses her kid)
the explanation could be – as theyd already been in the nexus it was somehow drawn to them so as a result it got closer to the planet than it should have (otherwise Soran had no need to destroy the star in the first place!)
it would’ve also avoided the rather ridiculous Picard carries Kirks dead body up the mountain and buries him thing (ok i know that was due to the original ending of kirk being shot in the back at the top being redone but its still there on screen making no sense) plus itd have been quite cool having Picard know kirk was still alive in the nexus…and only told Starfleet top brass and others like Spock – Kirks actual fate wouldve been classified Area 51/Raiders style (which i imagine it was with him being out of the nexus and dead anyway)
of course there is the explanation that Picard and Kirk never actually left the nexus , therefore Sorans defeat and FC, INS and NEM all take place in Picards nexus. but anyway thats a different subject altogether (and the filmmakers certainly didnt intend for it to be like that)
@37 – very good point
But, come on! “Second star to the right, and straight on till morning” and the final Captain’s Log. THAT’S how TPTB should have dealt with the ‘end’ of James T. Kirk.
Others think he should have died on the Enterprise’s (or another ship’s) bridge, valiantly maneuvering, scheming and WINNING his final test while saving something very, very important (which could have also been the lives of his crew). That could easily have meant dying at the onslaught of Chang in TUC before the rest of the two crews saved Khitomer and peace.
Alternately, the overlords could have always offered Shatner the chance to return for a VERY good reason. Then, live or die? If death, an extremely heroic, meaningful, no-ways-to-nitpick, only-Kirk-could-beat-this-scenario crisis; not the rough equivalent of Tasha Yar being slapped by the Slime Creature.
But by the end of TUC, Kirk had at last completed the long arc of his emotional life journey from brash, prejudiced, fools-rush-in leader, to being satisfied with his life, accepting of change, and fully giving to family and friends. Of course, he could still kick ass as needed. I’d have much preferred to let the subsequent mystery be.
There were other flaws with Generations that didn’t make sense.
For example, Soran got into the Nexus while waiting for rescue. Why exactly didn’t Soran just use another ship to get back into the nexus? It doesn’t make sense.
The other things to think about: What about the other 50% of Soran? Perhaps his remaining half would have helped to stop the destruction of the planet.
In the end it’s a moot point.
What I’d really like to see is a proper restart of the prime universe, thoroughly researched and thought out before any production started. It’s time to have as close to a real Enterprise as possible, make the new Star Trek feel more like a documentary. Seeing as Starfleet losses were so high in the prime universe they commissioned the full documentation of the travels of every starship to learn from their mistakes, the viewers just get to see the Enterprise.
By having three seasons worth of stories to work with as part of the restart, a larger portion of the budget can be used to establish a strong technical backing that would gain the support of Trekkies and ensure another generation of children become completely engrossed in Star Trek. To the people that have never seen Star Trek, they would be new episodes, to those of us who can recite some episodes line for line, minor continuity errors could be corrected to increase the over all immersion into the Star Trek universe.
#25 Dave H
Good luck with the Hep C
@40 – Nice idea but the majority of people in theatres wouldve been going ‘WTF?! Kirks one true love is Alexis Carrington?!’
Well instead we had a bunch of Trek fans asking
“‘WTF?! Kirks one true love was someone we had never seen or heard of before named “Antonia??”
LOL ;-)
@47
““‘WTF?! Kirks one true love was someone we had never seen or heard of before named “Antonia??””
Why not? Between Star Trek 1 and 2 is a 15 year gap we know nothing about.
#42-Ironic and kind of sad thing is…I like ALL of your “endings” better than the way they did it in the movie. And, they got paid to write that LOUSY script/death!
Star Trek Generations: The Laundry List
Dear writers,
1. Destroy the TV Enterprise so we can make a new one worthy of the big screen.
2. Write a time travel story so that the old characters can pass the baton.
3. Literally kill off the leader of the TOS characters, (Kirk) so that moviegoers will embrace the Next Gen crew.
Thanks,
Paramount suits
#12 continued
No 24th century federation,, Nero has no one to blame for his wife’s death.
No hunt for red matter,, (no red ball in JJ movie)
No destruction of Vulcan.
No “Nero Back to the Future” Samuel Kirk lives to see him graduate the
academy .
So,, his little heroics cost him his father and his best friends planet.
Not to mention his brother Sam is his best friend Jimmy???? (possibly
unrelated)