Once again, it’s time to talk about whether William Shatner will ever return to his role as Captain James T. Kirk. The notion came up in a new interview with the actor promoting his appearance at this weekend’s Fan Expo in Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada. He was asked by the Regina Leader Post if he would be willing to return:
“I’m perfectly fit and ready to put on some makeup …. The problem I guess is what do you do with an aging captain whose youthful existence is already there?” said Shatner, now 86.
The problem with bringing Kirk back in the movies isn’t about him being aging captain who might interact with his younger self, as they obviously found a way to bring back Leonard Nimoy (twice), in both 2009’s Star Trek and 2013’s Star Trek Into Darkness.
The real issue is the fate that befell the Captain during Shatner’s last run as Kirk in 1994’s Star Trek: Generations. (Spoiler: he falls off a bridge and dies.) Even though there were some discussions about Shatner returning for some of the more recent Star Trek movies, producer J.J. Abrams said last summer “there’s something about his having died that makes it impossible.” Then again, Abrams also said that in Star Trek “nearly anything is possible.” So, if he got a pitch that he didn’t find contrived … you never know.
Of course with the CBS All Access show Star Trek: Discovery in production, there is another possible place for Kirk to show up. They wouldn’t have the same issues with jumping from one reality to the other, but could they ever afford him on a TV budget?
Shatner trolls Canadian PM on Star Wars Day
Today is May the 4th, also known as “Star Wars Day,” which explains the prevalence of #MayTheFourthBeWithYou hashtags on social media. One person swept up in the day was Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, who sent out a tweet showing off his Star Wars socks. William Shatner, a native Canadian, fired back asking for equal time for Star Trek.
These are the socks you’re looking for. #MayTheFourthBeWithYou#GuerreDesÉtoiles pic.twitter.com/AXTQkgmkYH
— Justin Trudeau (@JustinTrudeau) May 4, 2017
😱Adorbs! I hope you have a pair of @StarTrek ones too! 🤔😉 https://t.co/J1dqt835PN
— William Shatner (@WilliamShatner) May 4, 2017
Join Shatner in Zero G
Are you looking for something exciting to do during some off time at the Star Trek Las Vegas convention this August? Well then you can join William Shatner and a few other people in a weightless adventure. Zero Gravity Corporation and Roddenberry Adventures just announced a “ZERO-G Experience® with William Shatner” for a limited number of people on an exclusive flight from Las Vegas on August 4.
Flying on board G-FORCE ONE®, ZERO-G’s specially modified Boeing 727, fans will join Shatner as the plane performs a series of parabolic arcs to “create the exhilarating feeling of floating through space.” After the flight, passengers will be able to “mingle with the Shatner during a meet and greet session.” In the press release Shatner states:
“I’ve always wondered what it would be like to actually explore the Final Frontier and now I have the opportunity to experience zero gravity firsthand. It will be an incredible adventure.”
All of this zero-G fun can be had for the low low price of $9,950. The ticket includes a ZERO-G flight suit, a “certificate of weightless completion” along with photos and video to share. More information can be found at gozerog.com.
Shatner’s Horseshow Auction
William Shatner’s annual Hollywood Charity Horseshow is on June 3rd. Leading up to the show is a silent auction, which kicked off this week. Included are dozens of bits of Hollywood memorabilia, much of which is signed by Shatner including some Star Trek items. One particularly unusual one is a Captain Kirk action figure that was flown into space. CLICK HERE to see the full selection of lots up for auction.
This Kirk figure has actually been in space, and you can buy it
Reuniting with Kruge
Back in March we reported that William Shatner had landed the role as the lead in the comedy feature film Senior Moment. Then in April, Variety reported that actor Christopher Lloyd had joined the cast. That makes it a reunion for Shatner and Lloyd, who faced off as Captain Kirk and Klingon Commander Kruge in Star Trek III: The Search For Spock back in 1984, but this time the two will be playing best friends, so they won’t be at each other’s throats.
Shatner and Lloyd face off in Star Trek III; they’ll be reunited in Senior Moment
That’s it for our all Shatner all the time update for this week. Keep up with all the celebrity news at TrekMovie.
I’d personally love to see him in the role again. Once in the nexus, always in the nexus?
Amen , Jon Spencer !!!
By far the best bridge of all Star Trek incarnations:
hahaha lol…funny
Once in Trek, always in Trek.
Oh boy here we go. I love you Shatner but its over. Before people start yelling at me yes at ONE time I would’ve liked to have seen him back. I would’ve been fine if they manage to pull something on DS9 or Voyager. I have spoken too many times about his possible appearance on Enterprise. Don’t want to rehash it but it didn’t work out. And then the KT films he wanted a bigger role (which he has stated) and the film was not about him. There is Discovery but AGAIN these stories aren’t about him so its unrealistic to change your story just to get a 90 year old Kirk in an episode so old fans can gawk and cheer. Yeah not happening.
But its cool he’s reuniting with Lloyd for a film. If its good I’ll watch it.
Completely agree… there comes a time in someone’s career when they should move on and stop making it about their time!
Are you the one that gets to decide when its time for someone to retire? Grow up.
If you need to say “grow up” to someone stating their opinion (and a perfectly legitimate one), i’d say that says more about you…
I really wish this place had an ignore button. TUP is one of the most rudest people here unfortunately who can’t take a difference of opinion.
Actually he can and he doesn’t masquerade as 10 different people like the notorious bozo who ‘moderates’ at another st board and shits all over this one.
Thank you B Kramer. Love differing opinions when their thoughtful and relevant. Cant stand the people who dont spend even one second considering what their posting. If people cant give their psots some thought beforehand they shouldnt get angry when others do and respond accordingly.
Welcome TUP. And you want to know what’s funny mj kisses Shat’s ass on his board to cover up his tracks. But he and cousin ryan, formerly: ‘red dead’ still relentlessly dump upon him here.
I first noticed jensen’s name on Shat’s fb page last summer and it had a link (he since removed his name from it) to his ‘final frontier’ chatboard. That’s why he kept trying to apologize last spring because he was starting up his board, but he’s still up to the same old twisted and sneaky shenanigans as time has proven.
LLAP
B Kramer,
Thanks for the heads up. I thought I was running into too much of that old “argument” style of his, lately.
Very welcome Dis. Take care.
LLAP
Kea.
I love opinions. When people fly off at the mouth with “facts” they think are opinions and cant handle some simple thought analysis, its more amusing then anything.
You think a man should give it up just because of, what, his age? Think about what you’re saying for a minute rather then hitting post to every silly thought.
Wrong Torchwood. The “opinion” is presented as a fact and its wrong. So my point stands.
Agreed Kevin!
He had his send off 25 years ago. And even then he got to play the character one last time in Generations. I know people didn’t like he was killed but yeah it happened regardless. It was nice to see him and Picard in one last adventure together and leave it at that.
Why? Because you say so? Nothing in this post is a fact that would support the idea Shatner should not return as Kirk. You dont like him? Ok. Many others do.
I love Kirk. Shater’s version is done though.
Not your call
Enough already,
Truth. Tiger2 certainly has no way of knowing one way or the other until the new Paramount production tzar is chosen and ensconced and even after he himself noted:
“Disinvited, I’m not making the movie man.” — Tiger2
YEs I have no way of knowing….other than the fact no one seems to be pushing for Shatner to play Kirk again. Could he play him again, sure, will he, doubtful.
Tiger2,
One of the reasons for that at Paramount is there’s nobody over there yet in charge of productions to push it one way or the other. You really can’t claim much about it the lack one way or the other until Paramount resolves that.
Shatner will not be in the next film or this season of Discovery. He’s 86 years old. Hasn’t it hit you guys yet if Paramount REALLY wanted him back that they would try a little sooner for a guy who is nearly 90 years old? He won’t live forever and yet there isn’t anything that sounds like anyone is bending over backwards to get him back in Star Trek. This is kind of common sense.
You really are a loser.
And you’re deluded. YOu people need to stop living in the past. This ‘loser’ is only speaking reality you can’t seem to come to grips with. If someone wanted the guy back in Star Trek that badly after 2 shows and 6 films he would’ve been back by now. ;)
Tiger2,
Re: if Paramount REALLY wanted
Paramount and CBS are two completely different organizations. Quit conflating the two as being the same and therefore having identical reasons for whatever they chose to do or NOT do.
TUP,
In the Prime universe, owing to GENERATIONS, Kirk had only been dead 16 years when Ambassador Spock created the KT and told KT Kirk about Prime Kirk’s existence.
And yet, Tiger2 wants us to accept that KT Kirk’s father, who’s been dead to KT Kirk for 33 years, is more relevant than KT Kirk’s alternate self — This, after STID established that KT Spock has his alternate self at the top of his emergency speedial over that of his own Vulcan father! LOL.
WTF is wrong with you people? Kirks dad is more relevant because its KIRKS DAD. What gets so annoying is as I explained a dozen times now Shatner’s Kirk has ZERO relevance with the KT crew. Zero, zip, none. He is a Kirk from a different universe who died 80 years into the future. What part do you not get about this??? And he’s played by the guy who plays Thor. Therefore he’s more interesting to the producers to have in the movie.
I don’t want you to accept anything lol, I’m just stating a (very) obvious fact.
Tiger2,
Re:Relevancy
WTF is wrong with your reasoning? You’re the one who claimed Prime Spock, an alternate version of the Spock that KT Kirk wasn’t even friends with yet and had been AWOL in the film for 25 years, had more relevancy than his Dad before he even met him. And if Prime Kirk had ZERO relevancy, why did the writers waste 2009 film having KT Kirk ask about his alternate and having the questions answered?
And the on screen exchange between the two Spocks clearly established that the two have more relevancy to each other than their fathers. So you are just arguing the ridiculous because your are essentially saying that KT Kirk’s father is more relevant to KT Kirk than Kirk would be to himself.
This Kirk is from ANOTHER UNIVERSE lol. Prime Spock wasn’t that relevant either but the film was about him so all that matters.
Nimoy and Shatner were born in the same year. I just don’t understand why the same people that thought it was perfectly fine to have Nimoy in recent Trek films make up all sorts of rationalizations for their prejudices against Shatner appearing in a Trek project. Every reason given by those who say it couldn’t work with Shatner applied equally to Nimoy as well in his last two appearances, and yet, there he was.
Because Nimoy was a real actor who was willing to do whatever was asked that best served the story. Shatner is a hack, a blowjard, and a terrible actor who wants everything to revolve around his bulbous head. I hope he’s never Kirk again. His character was never even that interesting.
And that idiot comment of yours Torchwood says a lot about YOU!
Self righteous jerk.
“Self righteous jerk.”
No argument there! But my comment is to inform someone who clearly has no self awareness.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Imagine trying to maintain any semblance of relevant and intelligent posting when you ridicule William Shatner, multiple award winner. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Torchwood, best disappear for awhile and come back with a new handle because you just blew your credibility here, my friend! HAHAHA
They killed Kirk off 20 years ago. Spock was alive and well living in the 24th century trying to reunite Vulcan and Romulous. I don’t think that’s ‘prejudice’ that’s just basic story reality. Its not about him anymore. Hasn’t been for decades.
True. Its a good thing Spock was never killed off. Would have been impossible to bring him back. Wait…oh
Thats because Spock was actually relevant to those movies and was a big part of the franchise at the time considering TOS was the only thing around. Its a different story today. Shatner’s Kirk has zero relevance to new Trek today and unlike Spock would not be a benefit since he would continue on. Part of the reason he was killed in the first place.
Tiger2,
Re: Spock was actually relevant to those movies and was a big part of the franchise at the time
At the time?!! At the time, both the director, Meyer, and the film’s star, Shatner were abundantly clear that it was artistically conceived and very important to that end that Spock stay dead. Neither were consulted in changing TWOK and it wasn’t a collaborative decision but solely the act of two men who you yourself would have described them as engaging in the self-indulgent tripification of the original concept of accepting permanent loss and remaining hopeful.
I love Nimoy, and I am happy about the opportunities he was able to wring out of Paramount, but I have no illusions about what he did with Harve to Meyer’s film as being something it desperately needed, because it didn’t. And it certainly upset what I would have thought you would have agreed was the original superior trajectory in the sequels of focusing the narrative on the YOUNG cadets?
I know Meyer has come to terms with what happened in putting together the Director’s Cut edition but I still believe his and Shatner’s disaffection over it was more than justified.
This is why, for me, Trek films two through six are a mixed bag as a whole and I have conflicted and often contradictory feelings about them. I think they did something worthwhile but I definitely don’t believe it was the best that they could have mustered.
Wait didnt you argue in another post Meyer DID want Spock to come back?? Yeah I argued that too that he DIDN’T but Meyer is just the director of a film, Paramount however saw it differently. Thats my point, the studio valued Nimoy’s presence in the films because the character was a very important part of that franchise. Sure if they kept him dead the movies would’ve went on either way. I don’t believe one character can make or break a franchise this big. Not anymore hence why Shatner is no longer important. At one point he was, today he isn’t.
When they killed Kirk, that part of the franchise was over and has been since TUC, so he’s not relevant to bring back. And every year that goes by even less relevant now because they now HAVE A NEW KIRK!!!
And man give it a rest already I’m not saying they can’t bring the character back because he died. I’m saying to bring him back would just be convoluted for a character that has NO relevance in today’s Star Trek. I mean why is this so hard to get?
Tiger2,
Re: Wait didnt you argue in another post Meyer DID want Spock to come back
No, that was some tangent you went on for reasons that I was never able to fathom. I have been consistent: Meyer intended for Spock to die and stay that way. That’s the way he wrote it. Bennett and Nimoy midway into filming, conspired to undo that in that it was instigated by Harve and the studio wasn’t involved beyond hearing out Bennett’s campaign to later change the ending to add the coffin on Genesis in defiance of Meyer who vehemently protested against modifying his script to include the coffin intact on the planet. “Remember”, which Bennett had initially snuck in filming as a mere throwaway bit that he contended was meaningless in its ambiguity but he later claimed he added as insurance. Meyer vehemently protested the change in clarity to his picture and specifically said directly that his movie was never intended to be ambiguous about the finality of Spock’s death and he demanded that he be allowed to excise those extraneous bits which he at the time regarded as a big FU to the audience, and restore the original clarity his film had.
My preference was always to not plug the old actors into the new films. Nimoy in Trek 09 felt contrived, was completely unnecessary in STID.
Then again, I don’t make the movies, others do. Opinions may vary….
@Phil – it was good in 09 although it was contrived in many ways, I agree. The scene where he basically explains the entire plot because it happened BEFORE the movie and you had to read the comic was really something.
If Niimoy wasnt available, they could have just had the film pause and Bob Orci appear on screen and say “hey filmgoers, sorry to interrupt but we wrote a silly plot and simply cannot explain it on scree, so Im going to take about 1 minute of your time here and explain everything that happened in the comic none of you read so you can at least grasp the plot of this move. Okay, here goes…”
TUP,
Re: comic
LOL. I don’t think he would have even had to do that, with the film’s rampant product placement. Pine’s Kirk would have just found the comic books [historical archives] in the cave and just happen to read aloud the pertinent passages including the URL where duplicate copies could be purchased.
Tiger – this opinion is the stupidest one of all, no offense. Its simply you (and others) dismissing it and using the lamest of reasons. “Its over”. Why, because you say so? Oh but he demands a big role. Why, because you say so? How do you know what Discovery is about?
Really simple minded people who claim to like Sci Fi but cant wrap their heads around William Shatner returning to Star Trek. Ridiculous.
At least we’re not getting the “he’s an old washed up bum that no one wants to see anymore”. I guess the original actors returning to Star Wars quieted that nonsense down.
Good story, good performance – why wouldnt you want to see him return?
I can wrap my head around Shatner returning. But I don’t want to see him again, and don’t think he should ever appear in Trek ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. Ever. He’s a terrible actor, a stupid character, and shoehorning him in to satisfy his ego would not result in a good story.
I think you need to grow up ;)
“…ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever. Ever….”
No, you definitely do.
“No, you definitely do.”
Fair enough!
Torchwood,again, you have lost any credibility. When you cant separate your personal dislike from fact, you might as well stop posting. The “grow up” reference is a solid one for you because generally intelligent people of a certain age know the difference between fact and fiction. You dont. Either you’re very young or stunted in some way. Either way, you know what to do.
If they put Shatner in a film it wouldnt be to satisfy his ego. Why on earth would any studio do that? What an asinine thing to say. But they would do it to make lots and lots of money. Casting award winning actors is usually considered a good thing.
I banish you to binge watching Boston Legal until you respect the talents of Mr Shatner.
TUP its not happening. Get over it and move on. Again its like a broken record I JUST said why I don’t lol. Jesus.
You’re right, you are a broken record. Please stop.
The broken record is Shatner lol.
Its over.
Its not over. Shut up. Who knows how much time he has left? We are so lucky to have the most important character in Trek history (argue if you will but it is true) still amazingly vibrant at 86. To not take advantage of this before he inevitably does pass would be the biggest missed opportunity ever.
Yeah its not happening or it would’ve happened after 3 new shows and 6 films by now.
“Its not happening” and “it should happen” are two different things which you are confusing. Why shout down everyone here with “hey stop posting, its not happening”. Do you have an agenda? Just get over it. If you dont have anything to add, dont add anything.
LOL YOU attacked me first here. I gave a balance argument in my post and you tried to shout me down by calling my argument stupid and worthless.
And its not happening because its not happening. We already know he’s not going to be in Discovery’s first season and we know the next KT film will involve Kirk’s dad if it gets made, which could be years from now anyway. This is all just something to debate. I like to debate. If you can’t take it, stop responding to me. Easy enough. ;)
Tiger2,
Re: Kirk’s dad
I certainly would be interested in knowing why you think that character’s return after a quarter of a century gone in the KT since his kamikaze run a decade ago in production and certainly not going to be back onscreen under ten years as well, and his never playing the character since, is so peachy-keen?
Disinvited, I’m not making the movie man. You have to ask them. The point being thats what the next film is about. That and the fact that he’s at least RELEVANT to these characters and this universe.
This is why you keep deluding yourself. Shatner’s Kirk is NOT relevant man. He has ZERO purpose in this universe. Not with these characters and not in the universe. Kirk’s dad played by Thor himself…yeah that’s a big difference. ;)
This is why you, TUP and the others will never get it.
Now if they make a Trek film or show that takes place in the 24th century in the prime universe, then OK.
And I will say it again, I think bringing back Kirk’s dad is a big mistake and really should think bigger, like BORG bigger. I don’t think anyone cares that much, but Hemsworth is a big star now so I get it. That said if they find a big enough story to include him in then maybe I’ll be proven wrong. But I don’t have any interest in them bringing Hemsworth back as I do Shatner personally.
Shatner was stupid for killing off Kirk.
Shatner didn’t kill off anybody.
He just followed the script.
He was as much a party to that ill-advised decision as everyone else involved. He should have shown a little more respect for the character and its legacy and simply refused to participate (just like Nimoy and Kelley did) and that would have ended it right then and there. It’s kind of hard to kill off Kirk if the only actor to have played him for the prior 30 some years stood up and said “No, this is a bad idea”.
Instead, he probably thought that the meal ticket had run its course (he never really understood the appeal of Trek, especially back then) and he decided to get one last paycheck out of it.
I grew up watching Shatner and love pretty much everything else he’s done, but shame on him for going along with such an idiotic premise.
I think he did say it was bad idea at the time. I also read the producers said they would have just killed him off anyway (like Charlie Sheen in “Two and Half Men”). They could easily have just showed the NCC-1701-A being destroyed, or many other methods. Honestly, we don’t know exactly how or why this bad decision played out even twenty years later. Paramount objected at first, as well. To be fair, Nimoy, as has been reported, objected to the part of Spock in Generations being unnecessary — and he did agree to have Spock killed off in ST2. They brought Spock back, I’m sure many people believed they could do the same for Kirk, if they wanted to.
Nimoy would have done Generations….as long as he got to write it. But its Shatner’s ego we talk about. Im not dissing Nimoy, but he had an ego too. He was very talented, fortunately and I wished they had given in. But Berman clearly didnt want “great TOS drama”. He wanted TOS dead and buried.
He knew there would be no more TOS movies and they paid him a lot of money for a few weeks work. And lets face it chances of him being in another big role after TUC was pretty unlikely at that point. The franchise was now in the 24th century and moved on. By the time they finally got back to TOS with the KT films, it was 15 years later and they just replaced him with a younger and hotter Kirk. So his time with Trek was done no matter what outside of a cameo somewhere.
Tiger2,
Again, it masquerades as logic but all one has to do is substitute the other guy born the same year as him to see its fallacy.
To paraphrase, “By the time they finally got back to TOS with the KT films, it was 15 years later and they just replaced Nimoy with a younger and hotter Spock. So his time with Trek was done no matter what outside of a cameo somewhere.”
But that’s NOT what happened.
Story wise, you couldn’t have used Kirk because in the “present” of the prime timeline not only was Kirk dead, but he’d have likely died of old age if they’d not killed him in generations. We’d also seen Spock in TNG, knew what he was up to, and his characters species was exceptionally long lived. His character was also much more interesting, and Nimoy was a much better actor. I applaud Abrams for using Spock instead of Kirk.
Even if Kirk had been plausablw for the story I’d have used Spock.
Torchwood,
Story wise, you could have used Kirk because Spock, Scotty and Kirk all died but it never took. Also, suspended animation was rediscovered with Khan in both universes and if it works to preserve a dead Kirk in one to wait till there’s a resurrection, there’s absolutely no logical reason why it couldn’t perform the exact same function in the other. We’d also seen an older human in TNG who was 137 years old and his death has never been noted, Admiral McCoy. Also McCoy was always older than his friend Jim Kirk as well. The James T. Kirk character is just as interesting as the Spock character, which was why the character was in the Bad Robot Trek movies even if Shatner was not.
As for whether Shatner’s acting chops are up to snuff: both Nimoy and Shatner have been nominated for Emmys. Shatner’s won two on this side of the millennium.
Obviously, no one wants to see Shatner return to Trek in a vehicle where he’s poorly directed with a poorly written script. The given is that his inclusion must seriously needed and the production willing to hire the caliber of people needed to collaborate with him to deliver the goods.
Its like you and TUP are Shatner’s agents lol.
Reading this just made me laugh. Again its not about Shatner anymore. No one wants to write this convoluted story to bring him back for just one story. The guy is 90 years old, no way in hell would anyone want more than a fun cameo and nothing beyond that.
Although I never read it, I did hear about his book The Return where the Borg brought him back. I know it would never happen that would’ve been a fun story to see in a TV movie or something.
Yes, Shatner won an Emmy playing an aging, overbearing, egomaniacal, bloated gasbag. Is it any wonder?
@Disinvited – very well said.
At 86 years old, there would have to be some care taken. As seemingly limitless as his energy is, I imagine its not the case. He needs a great writer and a great director to bring the best Kirk performance forth.
The “Kirk is dead” argument is really the weakest and makes zero sense. Not only because this is Sci Fi or Trek where characters have been resurrected but once you mess with time lines and universes, the opportunities really open up.
The idea it would take too much time to explain on screen holds no water since the plot of 09 had to be fully explained, complete with handy on screen graphics and flashbacks.
What?
The guy last big role as Kirk was TUC. By then the franchise have moved on. It just got a lot bigger than him. TOS had their time and it was done for. Sure if they didn’t kill him off he could probably appear in a cameo somewhere again but nothing was guaranteed. And he didn’t mind that Kirk was killed off or he wouldn’t have done it.
OK I see what you are saying now. I don’t see why this is so hard though. They KILLED Kirk. He was dead, finish, done, kaput. I don’t get why you keep bringing up Nimoy? The character wasn’t dead (not anymore lol) so it was easier to put him in the movie, not to mention it was established he was alive in the 24th century. If it makes you feel any better they killed Spock off in Beyond and that guy is no longer coming back either. ;)
And yes they replaced Nimoy with a younger and hotter Spock too. Hence why he just got the cameo in STID and why he wasn’t punching Khan in the finale.
Tiger2,
This is where you keep your Nimoy blinders firmly on. Spock was utterly dead by exposure to extreme radiation. He was dead, finished, done, kaput. And what those two did to bring his Spock character back was only EASY in the sense that clumsiness is easy, and it was disruptive of something which you yourself keep advocating now, the young cadet narrative.
‘Nimoy blinders’? Dude will you give it a rest already, christ. I don’t CARE if they brought Nimoy back or not. The fact is they DID because he was important to the franchise at the time. Shatner simply ISn”T today, OK???? And they didn’t wait 20+ years to do it lol. He was brought back in the next film.
Disinvited, will you stop talking like its 1983. The franchise was at a very different place then versus now. You people don’t seem to understand this at all. Hollywood doesn’t think it needs Shatner to be in movies to sell tickets. Thats ALL this is about. Maybe at one he did, not anymore.
I will throw you a bone here but if Shatner’s Kirk was the one they killed off in TWOK as Spock did then I imagine they would’ve moved heaven and earth to get that guy back in the next movie too. But that was 30 years ago now. Today, not so important or needed. Do we understand each other now? No, of course not lol.
Why is his time done, because you say it is?
Nimoy had an important and meaningful role in 09. It was not a cameo. Did you even see it? If you call it a glorified cameo, I can accept that but it was meaningful. Thats all Shatner said he wanted.
He’s William Shatner. He still works, still looks great, has all his faculties and wants to do it. How many other massive franchises have their lead actor from 1960’s still active and ready to go?
Its pure idiocy that he hasnt been embraced by the franchise again in multiple roles.
Not idiocy– wisdom. Because they knew Nimoy was humble enough to step aside and let the film be about the new crew. Do you think Shatner would have done anything but make it all about him? That he’d not want to be the center of the marketing, publicity, and press around the film? Do you think he wouldn’t bully the director, writers, and producers to increase his screen time?
Get over your Shatner fantasy, or back to wanking over photos of him, it grows tiresome. “It’s over” because clearly nobody has any interest in bringing him back, and wisely so. “It’s over” and his begging and pleading isn’t making it any better.
Torchwood, you must have stood in line for a long time for a Shatner autograph only to have the actor leave before getting to you. You’re dislike certainly seems personal. Im sorry you have those bitter feelings.
None of what you’ve written is logical though. You personally hate the man, that’s fine (if really really strange). Has nothing to do with whether a return to Trek would be successful (ir would).
…which, of course, HE didn’t do.
JJ was stupid for killing off Kirk.
Good thing Khan had the magic blood.
JJ was stupid for making STID at all…
He was young and needed the money.
TOS Kirk is just over 30 (the youngest Captain in Starfleet history). If Discovery takes place 20 years earlier, he’s just a pimply pain-in-the-butt kid who is reading all the time (“a stack of books with legs”) Shatner just wouldn’t cut the mustard. He could play his grandpa, I suppose, but that would just piss a lot of people off.
AJfromMoscow,
Re:..Discovery takes place 20 years earlier…
It doesn’t. DISCOVERY only takes place TEN years prior.
Discovery takes place 10 years before TOS, in 2255. Kirk was born in 2233, so he’d be 22 at the time of Discovery.
Wait. You mean they cant have 86 year old William Shatner play 22 year old James Kirk? Im shocked.
Shatner is a versatile actor.
LOL yeah I would actually pay to see that.
Shatner has a Lifetime of Charisma ! He is the Embodiment of Star Trek ! We only Hear the Small Squeek of the New Actors when in his Presence !!!
My reaction to the thought of Bloat-man returning to Trek – http://oneguyrambling.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/kirk-uhoh-thumb-550×417-719851.jpg
According to countless lectures across numerous Trek series settings looks don’t matter in the future of STAR TREK. And the simple fact was and IS that the man’s healthier than his contemporaries, even those younger, in making the first series.
But even if there was somehow some rational justification for your obsession with his looks, it’s not as if he’s never played his Kirk older than his actual age before.
The personal insults are the worst. Please post a photo of yourself so we can make fun of you. If you’re half as active at 86 as Shatner is, you’ll be pretty darn happy.
Grow up.
Ugh, fine, I’ll post a pic. Make fun if you must but be gentle, I just woke up in this pic http://1.bp.blogspot.com/–DUrnOEgLu8/T8OnsJ_xOlI/AAAAAAAAEJU/KRYztSd66sc/s1600/EC.jpg
delusional too.
a little hungover but that’s it
Trying to be funny doesnt change the fact you based your posts off personal attacks of a very active and healthy 86 year old. Pretty demeaning. There is a lot more “opinion” available then to resort to petty personal insults. And your photo just proves you wouldnt be able to handle the same judgements of yourself.
But nice try. I smiled…slightly.
Ah… Turnabout Intruder. An acquired taste!
Don’t know who’s worse: jensen or his Canadian cousin ryan.
LOL thats what I do love about watching TOS reruns. No one hammed it up better than Shatner. But that’s what made Kirk the character we all love.
my feelings are, as usual, I would like to see mr shatner and his wig return to the star trek
I’d love to see him. It seems the older he gets the younger he becomes. The guy is and will always be Mr Star Trek. Spock died in Trek 2 but he was resurrected.
Shatner’s Kirk Echo is still alive in the Nexus not sure why that is not easily adapted into a comeback mechanism onscreen! Beyond would have done way better with a Shatner appearance forced or not it would have added tens of millions in box office. I think its unlikely Shatner will ever return now as Paramount are not interested but if he did just look how much PR his rumoured return in the Bob Orci Trek movie generated!!!
That’s ridiculous. The Nexus would not have fit into BEYOND’s storyline. Thankfully, the writers didn’t do that.
The Nexus as a plot device works to bring Kirk back although its not ideal for two reasons: 1) Nexus sucked 2) interactions with Kirk are interactions with his Echo, not actually James Kirk.
The idea you cant explain Kirk being alive within a film because it would take too much time always amused me. In 09, they basically stopped the movie in the middle to have Nimoy explain the entire plot to us, complete with flashbacks.
TUP,
That’s only true if you can’t imagine whatever tendrils his Nexus echo has into his being sucking up his katra after he died. And the episodes RETURN TO TOMORROW and TURNABOUT INTRUDER clearly establish that Kirk has one every bit as transportable as Spock’s.
Although, it might be more plausible that Kirk’s katra returned to Janice Lester somehow as some side effect of something or other…
Good point. But to resurrect the Nexus? ugh I would hope not. To me that story only works as a film solely about the resurrection of Kirk with Spock et al leading a mission to find him. It cant just be this film about something else and then at a critical moment “oh wait, I know who can help us, lets warp over to the Nexus and get him”.
I’d rather see a Superman plot device, and one you could sort of tell over the opening credits if you wanted. Whatever happens “fixes” the timeline and we’re treated to visual representation of the timeline repairing itself complete with the “Kirk death” being undone, leading to Kirk still living.
Had Beyond ended like that, even without current Shatner (we’d see footage) and some sort of footnote where Pine’s Kirk learns his new future ended with his death of old age, happy with a wife and children or something, I think people would have accepted that.
They did not even need to it could have been explained away with a simple line “my echo died when he left the Nexus with Picard. I was trapped in the nexus until you freed me”!!!!! The red matter shockwave from ST09 could have easily touched the Nexus as well with a simple onscreen FX shot of it hitting the Nexus ribbon & Shatners Kirk re-appearing on the bridge of the Kelvin with George Kirk before it hits the Narada and both are by someone unknown beamed away and or trapped somewhere in the near future on a barren planet until Pine’s Kirk encounters them in the next movie!!
I always felt that it was clearly stated in Generations, therefore, Kirk could easily be brought back in some way. It was an obvious sci-fi loophole.
The next gen movies don/t count as they all totally sucked!!
So Kirk never really died in my humble opinion.
But TNG on TV was decent overall.
I think they could do it, have someone intercept the nexus after the events of the GEN intro and retrieve Kirk before he ends up dying on Veridean III. Of course, that would mean that Picard couldn’t use his help in GEN, and the Enterprise D is destroyed.
The conceit of the Kelvin timeline is that there is a different future there, and that old Spock recognises young Kirk, and that young Spock recognises himself older. Does Generations really need acknowledging in a say… Shatner playing Kirk again via a “Deadly Years” scenario, or Pine meeting Shatner in a time-travel plot? Same character at different points in life. It’s highly unlikely Quinto, Saldana, Pegg are going to still be playing those characters when they’re in their 80’s and 90’s. So they could employ some CG Peter Cushing back as Tarkin, for a final scene in Star Trek 2019/2020, where their future selves are shown looking not unlike those in the photograph from Nimoy Spock’s belongings.
It seems obvious Kelvin was made for the new generation who might be interested in Star Trek . And it’s conception possibly too complex for Star Trek’s continuity . But if you’re Chris Roberts-Producer/Director , you pretty much have your Own Series Continuity !
it’s not about how old Shatner is, it’s about how old Shatner looks. Not even that. It’s how old can Hollywood make Shatner look. He does pretty damn good on his own, but with the help of Hollywood magic, all bets are off. Shatner as Kirk? One more time? Sure
People are de-ageing everyone these days. How about de-aging Shatner to make him look younger, a la Fisher and Cushing in Rogue One?
The work they did in Rogue One was realistic, as long as you didn’t look at it directly or for too long.
Wait. I thought they didn’t actually de-age Fisher or Cushing but used other actors portraying them, with CGI replacing their faces (and a voice imitator for the late Cushing.) How did they de-age young Robert Downey Jr. in “Captain America: Civil War”?
They also de-aged one of the actors in “Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2” which was just released.
You do know it’s call ACTING and is as old as the first Greek city-states? And through most of its existence the female characters were all convincingly portrayed to both sexes in the audience by men?
My point being that great actors can transport their audiences to wherever they need to be in their heads to believe they are whatever the role needs them to be with not much stage magic.
De-aging tech is important not so much because there’s a need that only it can fill, but because anything that takes some of the onus off actors to totally be responsible for believably selling their characters’ look and feel, frees them up to explore other nuances of the characters’ inner workings which can be an even more riveting performance.
The funny thing is all these various technological advancements are being done in the name of STAR WARS where I’d otherwise point you to Sir Alec Guinness’ performance in the original one to see how a master actor sold Lucas’ characters and settings when he had next to nothing, but I can’t, because Lucas fell so in love with his advancements that he’s used them to practically obliterate it.
Ant Man did some pretty good de-aging. Using current Shatner as 86 year old Kirk AFTER his death is undone , possibly using the de-age CGI Star Wars employed if new scenes for context are needed, would be fine.
I personally would love to see Shat put on the gold shirt once again, but for what? If it was going to happen it should have happened in ST Beyond, for the 50th anniversary.. I agree that he shouldn’t have been killed off in Generations, but I kinda feel like he took the money and ran too. Now that TREK is so popular again, it makes sense that he want to be a part of it. Though he’s in everything, so what of it. I will say, seeing him at last years Mission New York 50th convention on stage was incredible. Hes 86 going on 30! The man has so much energy and I hope I have half his stamina at 60 and make it to 86! I sat right next to him for a picture and it was so magical.. I really wish there was a way to have a legit reason for him to take on the role again, but then again..just let him do it. He’s the King of TREK to me.
KAPT CHRUNCH,
The same case could be made about Nimoy/Spock in TWOK-TSFS. Allow me to paraphrase:
“I agree that he shouldn’t have been killed off in THE WRATH OF KHAN, but I kinda feel like he took the money and ran too. Now that TREK is so popular again, it makes sense that he want to be a part of it.”
Well we know Nimoy didnt take the money in STID. He did it because the plot needed him. It was a commitment to his craft. lol
I admire Mr. Shatner very much and his accomplishments.
It’s SHOW BUSINESS, however, and his return would present many challenges.
First of all, it’s the media frenzy it would create, Before filming, during filming, when the ep airs and the dust settling, after the first airdate.
He would announce it on his twitter feed and the circus starts.
While the buzz for TOS fans would be exciting, it would deflect attention away from the main characters.Anyone remember the last Enterprise episode? Bakula was reportedly incensed at having Frakes and Sirtis hijack their finale.
The suits would be excited when they get the “bump” in viewership with Shatner’s episode. Then the heat would turn to the producers and main cast when viewers drop off after Shatner’s ep airs.
If Mr. Shatner did an unannounced appearance or role, without the media frenzy, it would be a GREAT surprise and then generate the bump in viewership.
It would be no different than Nimoy’s appearance on TNG or Scotty’s. It doesn;t hurt the main cast. The TNG screwed the Enterprise guys over because they were thefocus of the SERIES finale. That was just stupid.
The real problem lies in how to do it and have it make sense. It would be real tricky with a prequel to TOS.
Having said that, if they can bring Spock back from the dead with some Vulcan mumbo jumbo, Kirk shouldn’t be a problem, with the right creative mind.
Yes, the last thing a studio wants is a lot of buzz before, during and after filming.
Haha , Haha ! The Exec-Producers of Discovery are a Meld of TOS and TNG Fans , by the way ! But I’m just wondering , if The Shat , is just too much of a distraction for a New Series ? Maybe they should consider a CBS Tele-Movie with Shatner , Stewart and other Stars from the Trek Series ?
I dont know how Discovery resists the temptation to bring the Enterprise on the show at some point. Imagine the first season ending with the arrival of the original Enterprise (would be…Pike, no?).
If so, get Bruce Greenwood to play Pike. A woman as #1, young Spock.
On that same token, how do you resist a young Kirk being mentioned or showing up at some point?
The easy way to bring him back would be to open the next movie in the middle of nu Treks version of the Deadly years. It ticks all the boxes, we see Shatner as Kirk one time, it doesn’t rely on a gimmick like time travel and if they also cast Walter Koenig it would provide a perfect way of writing out Chekov whilst also honouring both the history of and Anton Yelchin’s version of the character.
I hope Shatner passes away soon just so he can stop begging to be in Star Trek and we can stop having these discussions about “why can’t Kirk return?”
After he’s dead and buried i wouldn’t mind a CGI Shatner reprising the role. Because it would be a better actor.
Torchwood,
Well, at least in coming clean about your irrational hatred unto death of Shatner, we can stop having these discussions where you pretend you have rational reasons for Shatner not returning.
Plenty of rational reasons i’ve outlined elsewhere here. There are rational reasons on both sides, I just happen to disagree with your reasons to include him, because I disagree with the fundamental argument that he is a good actor and would support a good story.
But there are plenty of good reasons to include him, most notably for the publicity. But other than that, I thought Trek was about moving forward? I mean, all the people who hate the prequel concept keep saying so!
You’ve never put froth a rational reason actually. You hate the actor. Which is really weird for someone who doesnt know him personally. If this was the pre-internet age, I can imagine you being one of those nuts that lurks outside actor’s homes ready to do harm. Fortunately, now, you can just spout nonsense on the internet and feel good about yourself.
Did you really just say that, Torchwood? Really, wishing death upon the man? You need some serious help. Shame on you. No class.
Terrible
OK thats going a bit too far lol. You shouldn’t wish someone dies so you can stop reading articles about him reappearing as Kirk. Thats really beneath you man. And you can just skip these articles. Wouldn’t that be easier?
Seriously, people, you can’t take a tasteless joke?
Thats too tasteless man.
Agree to disagree. As George Carlin said, anything can be joked about, and nothing is too tasteless.
Lack of character in not knowing when and where. Once again, you drop your Trekmovie rep into the minus column. Shameful. Maybe time for a break. Get some fresh air. Talk to a professional.
…putting aside that technically nothing can be TOO tasteless– it already has ZERO taste…
You can rationalize any way I just think its best not to repeat it and move on.
Well now I will be sure to repeat it next time Shatner is discussed!
Do what you want but its now coming off childish along with insulting. I’m sure when someone says they wish your mother or kid was dead as a joke, it would be hilarious for you. Others it would be insulting.
Torchwood,
Re: TOO tasteless
That’s only true for ONE of the definitions that’s NOT being applied in this case.
You need to look a its second OED entry:
taste*less
[] adj.
…
2 considered to be lacking in aesthetic judgement or to offend against what is regarded as appropriate behavior
***
Ergo, this meaning of tasteless can have varying degrees as in the case of your remarks being too tasteless for polite company.
This is the internet. It is not polite company.
Torchwood
Re: This is the internet.
Even if your reply were true, it wouldn’t invalidate my observation.
THIS is TrekMovie.com:
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It can be that way when people like you take it there. Uncalled for. Classless. And showing a real lack of intelligence. The fact you would rather make lame excuses then simply apologize goes to your lack of character. You’re mud here now, my friend. Enjoy it.
Even fictional characters should deserve a dignified retirement. I don’t want to see an 89-year old James T. Kirk dealing with a changing Federation, evolving starship Captaincy core competencies, and feel his discomfort at his ever-increasing irrelevancy. It happens to everyone, but I really wouldn’t want to watch his unfold in 4k.
But as long as we’re going back to his time,
there were 12 other ships in the initial block of that starship class… surely there is SOME story of note in the 5-year missions to be told in the adventures of the captain and crews of one of them?
If not, then let Discovery (the show and the ship)tell her own story, let her crew have their time. Kirk’s, and Shatner’s, is long past.
Nearly every major character in ST has “died” at one point or another. For Christ’s sake Spock got his own movie about coming back from the “dead”
It’s really little more than an excuse to not have Shatner play Kirk in some fashion or another on either the new tv series or in the next film.
Shatner’s return as Kirk would be a big deal. See the positive press his rumored return got for Orci’s version of Star Trek 3…Even Paramount’s inept marketing team (see the poor promotion for Beyond) couldn’t screw that up.
Shatner as Kirk would be an “event” (something that I don’t know if the people who run ST understand) and some bring much neededgood publicity the series.
Make it so!!!
I think that william shatner back as kirk is a great idea. How about others from the cast as well?
Someone said in another thread here that Nichelle Nichols and Walter Koenig are retired from acting. I think I remember Koenig saying his appearance in Renegades would be his last time playing Chekhov.
I don’t really care we never see Shatner again but I always wanted to see Nichols play Uhura one last time in something other than TOS because she is the only TOS actor who never had a cameo in a different Star Trek production (I mean professionally. I saw her in Gods and Monsters and actually liked her in it). I heard she was given the chance to be on Voyager with George Takei but turned it down because the role was too small. And thats her right. It sucks Discovery will be a prequel. If it was farther in the future there could’ve been a way for her to cameo on that show but that was probably a long shot at this point anyway.
Tiger2,
Prior to 2009, Nimoy said he was retired, even said he was going back to retirement after 2009, and yet despite two acting retirements there he was.
I understand, I’m just saying what they are saying. They obviously can change their mind but my point is if they say they are retired, no one is going to bend over backwards coming up for a story to include them in unless they feel they are that vital. And obviously they aren’t needed. Nimoy did it because it was a $150 million film where the entire story revolved around him. I would too lol.
“Old Jim Kirk” would be a great film if it placed him not at the command of the Enterprise, but somehow traveling the stars. For some reason what comes to mind is Harry Seldon in the Foundation novels. Shatner is underrated. Chris Nolan could direct it. I think that his “death” should be another one of those things that Kirk overcame and is basically forgotten. We all hate it. In five seconds we see him, he’s alive and that is that.
Love that idea.
I second that ! I don’t know about Chris Nolan directing that ? How about Chris Roberts ?
That Kirk died in ‘Generations’ is the “real issue,” really?
Spock “died” in Wrath of Khan. Kirk “died” (briefly) in STiD.
The whole time-travel logic behind the reboots was the freedom to tell fresh stories while also cherry-picking those few tidbits from the original canon that still interested them.
I wish Bad Robot and its enablers would just cut the crap and admit they don’t want anything to do Shatner personally.
While I don’t necessarily disagree with your speculation, I do think Shatner is a ‘bag of hurt’. For starters, the fans will want an explanation of how Kirk survived his death in Generations to age to the point he is now and there’s almost no good way to do it, without making him some sort of Alternate Universe Kirk, which the fans don’t seem to want. Then there’s working with Shatner and his ego, assuming they can even make a reasonable deal with him. Finally, there’s the inevitable controversy he will bring as he takes to Twitter before, during, and after. In the end, I think it takes the spotlight off the series itself, and turns what should be a fresh reboot of Trek into a swamp of old problems and tropes.
Curious Cadet,
Nobody said doing great STAR TREK was “easy”. We only have to look no further than DISCOVERY and CBS to see the problems endemic in such an endeavor.
Yes I wish Bad Robot will admit they don’t want anything to do with Shatner as well so everyone can get the hint, especially Shatner, and just move on already.
A rumour appeared a few years ago online that said Shatner told Bad Robot he would ONLY agree to appear in ST09 if Nimoy was not in it at all! Hence why Nimoy probably had nothing more to do with him & his ego & Bad Robot seem very anti-Shatner!
Wow I HOPE thats not true because it would make Shatner look like a bigger douchebag then I already think he is.
Obviously we don’t know but it is odd why Shatner never said he and Nimoy stopped talking to each other. I would like to think it wasn’t over something like that though. That comes off petty and selfish but we are talking about Shatner here.
Nonsense the two of you.
B Kramer,
Re: Nonsense
You sure got that right.
Paul and Tiger2,
How can you two possibly entertain this nonsense when you know from both Orci and Shatner that they had successfully approached Shatner to be in Orci’s third TREK movie to the point where JJ had to remind Bill that he had signed an NDA?
No, I don’t really believe it. I think that would be way too petty even for Shatner and yes you’re right, it sounded like he was happy over the prospect of he and Nimoy appearing together again. At that point maybe he was desperate to just be in Star Trek again but I never got the idea he wanted to do it without his costars, especially Nimoy. He just wanted the top billing mostly.
Tiger2,
Re: I don’t really believe it.
Thank you, for being reasonable about that.
As much as the old cast attacked Shatner over and over, if he was petty, he could have had them all fired from the films. He never did.
Holden,
I don’t think “briefly” ameliorates their Kirk’s death in any meaningful way. Especially, since the rotted unfrozen tribble on McCoy’s desk which facilitated that death’s brevity was itself NOT briefly dead.
JJ: “We simply have no way of bringing a character back from the dead” – immediately kills Kirk and brings him back in the lamest way possible.
STID was all sort of bad for many reasons.
TUP,
Re: “We simply have no way of bringing a character back from the dead” – JJ
What’s weird is Orci was a TNG fan where TNG brought dead Tasha Yar back in YESTERDAY’S ENTERPRISE. Fans love that episode so much they later had Tasha have a daughter before she herself was born.
The one thing for which their TNG flashback setting in their 2009 effort doesn’t want is ways of bringing characters, like Prime Kirk, back from the dead.
Please Bring back The original Kirk I think it is just what the franchise needs a booster shot in the arm
If i was to bring Shatner-Kirk back, I think I’d have a superdooper universe destroying threat on the way, and one of the God-like beings (possibly Q) who can’t interfere (which would be built into the plot), and they reanimate him on Veridian III as their ace card for dealing with the problem, with a proviso that it’s a one-shot deal and once completed he has to return to being dead.
He doesn’t like not being Captain Kirk. I think that’s why he’s making all these Trek documentaries. As a way of retaining his authority as Mr Star Trek.
That and $$$$$!
For old fanboys who can’t let go of the past and want to see someone bring Shatner back as Kirk…well here you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czy0pWybtnE
I always love watching this. A grand sweeping adventure with all the crews. And I love not only did they bring Kirk back they also brought back Sisko! :)
Anyway this is the closest it will ever happen so enjoy.
Reality check, Bill. In universe you’re twenty three years older, overlooking the fact you died. Reality check 2.0 – in real time, Paramount seems to be in no hurry to bring Trek back to the big screen, so it could be 3-5 years before we see anything. It’s great that you’re feeling okay, but no one at the studio of going to make a long term commitment with you in the center of it.
Yeah Phil and he looks, feels and acts a lot younger than you old man.
And you know this, how?
Don’t make me post pics.
Phil,
Re: long term commitment
Yeah, that’s as ridiculous as someone making a long term series commitment to Betty White in her dotage…oh, wait, they DID!
Bill Shatner has become a character in his own right, and I’m afraid that if he were in Star Trek again, Shatner would overshadow Kirk. Kirk is a hero and a great man, and I’d prefer that Shatner’s self-aggrandizement not sully the character of Kirk.
Corylea,
No one wants to see a poorly directed Shatner.
There are reports of Shatner’s refusing to take direction as early as the 60’s, and Nicholas Meyer said that the only way he got Shatner to give a non-hammy performance in TWOK was to make him do a take so many times that he eventually got tired and started putting forth less energy.
If Shatner won’t allow himself to BE directed, then there’s no such thing as a WELL-directed Shatner. And time is money in the movie biz, so most directors wouldn’t be able to use Nicholas Meyer’s strategy.
Corylea,
At that time, Meyer was a neophyte learning to direct and Shatner had been directed by the likes of Robert Wise, Stanley Kramer and Richard Brooks. Of course Meyer had to learn how to direct Shatner, he was learning how to direct period with only one singular film under his belt.
You have to put these statements into context. Also, Shatner could hardly be expected to hold Meyer, at that time, in the same regard as Wise.
You also need to be willing to logically challenge your preconceptions. Do you honestly believe Shatner won TWO Emmys while being undirectable? Do you actually believe that he was successful in FOUR television series — STAR TREK, TJ HOOKER, THE PRACTICE and BOSTON LEGAL — while being utterly undirectable?
Also the idea Shatner was a huge ham and Meyer had to trick him into a good performance doesnt compute when you consider his other great performances, some in Trek and obviously in Boston Legal with TV constraints and TV directors. Shatner clearly likes to be a big personality but when called upon, he can be very very good.
I think Meyer was looking for a specific “tired” performance from Shatner for his Kirk, who was facing his age and everything else. Shatner was good in TMP and TSFS. The death of David scene was tremendous. Actually he was good in all Trek to varying degrees.
I wasnt a huge fan of Generations but he had moments of wiping the floor with Stewart. And not to say Stewart isnt an amazing actor because he is. But the dialogue and scripting made it possible for Shatner to deliver lines in a way that made him a commanding presence in their scenes in a way Picard was not.
One of my favourite little moments is Shatner flashing his grin as the turbolift doors close in Generations.
Kirk was a great man….but that was another life. ;)
I wish the fanboys understood that.
Are you not a fan? Or are you a female? A Fangirl?
Yes a fan, not a fanboy (or fangirl). I like the guy as an actor but don’t think he’s the best actor in the world. Faaaaar from it lol. I loved him as Kirk but can admit because how much scenery he chewed up in so many of his scenes. I think he also has too big of an ego and kind of used his stardom on Trek to belittle the other actors around him. And no I don’t think he should be Kirk again because that time has past. I will always have him from the show and 7 films. I don’t need one last film or show to see him stuff in a starfleet uniform and fighting Klingons a third of his age. Just let it be at this point.
He should have followed Nimoy’s lead and not agreed to the appearance in Generations. Prime Kirk would still have a future in Trek if he had.
Again…maybe. They have tried to put him in other things since they killed him in Generations and it still has not worked out. Shatner himself has said he doesn’t want to do cameos, he wants the production to be about his character. Well thats probably not going to happen. And he came up with an idea on Enterprise to play Mirror Universe Kirk but then it sounded like he wanted too much money and then they changed the idea to him being a cook instead so that just fell apart too. In other words its not like others have not tried, they have. For whatever reason it doesn’t work out. Again thats the business its no ones fault everyone just have different priorities.
But Shatner doesn’t seem interested in reappearing in Trek unless the story revolved around him in some way, well, like Generations. He was given the chance to go out a hero (twice) and got to be on screen with Picard which fans always wanted to see. Yeah I thought how he was killed sucks but as you said HE agreed to do it. You can’t cry over spilled milk later, especially when you paid millions to do it.
Tiger2,
The problem for you is the same Rick Berman that was the architect of the prime Kirk swan song which you claim was designed as undoable in GENERATIONS in regards to a Shatner returning to TREK after, was at that ENTERPRISE negotiating table with Shatner claiming he could do what you say couldn’t be.
I don’t see how anyone hearing Shatner on TWOK double-disc talk about the undoing of Spock’s swan song can possibly believe Shatner agreed to a script, which Berman claimed was immutable, with Kirk dead from a shot in the back believing that would be final — especially after watching Berman backpedaling after the failed test screenings.
There was nothing final or immutable about the Kirk death scripted, even though the production insisted that it was, DURING the filming of GENERATIONS. Why would Shatner believe it absolutely impossibly unmodifiable AFTER? The Rick Berman at the ENTERPRISE negotiating table with Shatner certainly didn’t believe this to be so.
LOL I don’t have a ‘problem’. I don’t care if he comes back or not. If he came back, fine, if he doesn’t fine. I’m not against him coming back, I’m just telling you all the realities why he never will at this point.
Man you are prattling on like a crazy person. Its over man. You’re talking about stuff from literally TWO DECADES AGO. My god, move on. This is just sad. Let me put in Trump speak for you: SAD!
LoL mj LoL.
Tiger2,
Re:literally TWO DECADES AGO
You need to check the defintition of the word “literally”, because it most assuredly did NOT happen literally TWO DECADES AGO.
Ok fine man. The point still stands regardless.
Tiger2,
Re: The point still stands regardless.
No it doesn’t, because Manny Coto couldn’t have been in those negotiations until 2004 at the earliest. Your attempt to prop up a weak point with exaggeration to make it appear distant from Brad Grey’s more “recent” 2006 STAR TREK initiative was transparent and failed.
Dude you are bringing up archaic issues at this point. Enterprise hasn’t been on the air for over a decade now. This is my point, you argue this stuff as if it was a year ago. And no man my point didn’t fail, he hasn’t played the character since 1994, 23 freaking years ago. Jesus I’m well aware there has been talk of him being in other productions again since I MENTIONED IT IN MY OP and in this very thread lol. Everyone knows this by now.
It still doesn’t take away from the fact he hasn’t played Kirk in 2 decades. And the way its going it will be another 2 decades (yeah I think if anyone can live that long its Shatner lol).
Why criticism him? They were clearly looking to NEVER use the TOS cast again. So he is to decline millions of dollars for a pretty easy gig because 20 years later they might put him in the TV show in a cameo?
Had Shatner declined, Berman would have found another way to kill of TOS. Period. Good for Shatner for taking the money and having another solid performance where he reminded everyone watching that his Kirk was on another level to Picard.
Blame Berman and his pals for an atrocious script.
Who is criticizing him? Yeah I don’t blame him one bit. The point is that you guys can’t seem to get over is he was meant to be killed in the film for good and to move on. Shatner knew that before he signed up. Yes, yes, just because they killed him doesn’t mean they can’t bring him back. But thats a crap shoot. Again when Nimoy was killed off in TWOK HE wanted to be killed off, not the studio. They fought tooth and nail to convince him not to leave the franchise. Even while filming TWOK, they added a scene of how he could come back just in case he changed his mind. They never wanted his death to be permanent.
In this case however, they did. They didn’t even originally want the guy in the movie. Trek was done with TOS and it was just time to move on in the franchise. I don’t ‘blame’ anyone, they had their time. And now 20 years later people are clinging to a hope and prayer he will return lol. Keep praying, maybe it will happen in another 20 years.
Tiger2,
Re: …he point is that you guys can’t seem to get over
The point you can’t get over is that in TWOK, Spock was MEANT to be killed for good. That’s the way Meyer wrote AND directed it. He’s been more than clear about that. The studio had script approval and new EXACTLY what it was buying. Nimoy knew that before he signed up. Said so in his autobiography. He also said it was total fiction that he asked or demanded for the character to be killed. He even talked of how he confronted Michael Eisner over it when Eisner was trying to retcon it right in front of him that Eisner wasn’t responsible for killing the character off, with the implication that he used Eisner’s embarrassment over it to help sell his directing.
”I remember with crystal clarity his [Harve Bennett] answer, because it shocked me so. He leaned forward and responded to my question with one of his own: “How’d you like to have a great death scene?” I laughed nervously, and said, “Let’s talk.” Did I want to see Spock killed? No. But 1 couldn’t help being intrigued by the idea; after all, if this was indeed going to be one last squeeze of the cow, the final Star Trek effort, then it would make sense to go out gloriously.
But a lot would depend on the script. Before long Paramount contacted me, and we started contract negotiations.
…
In perhaps the most refreshing moment I have ever had in my Star Trek experience, Nick [Meyer] said, “I agree with you. Spock’s death shouldn’t be in the script unless it serves a dramatic function. Look, I’m doing a rewrite right now and will be done in a few days. You’ll be able to take it with you on the plane back to Israel.”
…
He [Michael Eisner] let go a deep sigh and said, “Look, I’ve got a big problem here, Leonard. I don’t feel comfortable about putting you in charge of this very expensive and important movie. After all, you hate Star Trek so much—hate this character, Spock, so much—that you insisted we kill him off. You even made us put it in your contract for The Wrath of Khan!”
Once again, I was slack-jawed: The ghosts of I AM NOT SPOCK had returned to haunt me again—this time in the form of the myth that I had been the one who wanted to kill the Vulcan.
When I recovered from the shock, I protested “Michael, that simply isn’t true! I don’t hate Spock or Star Trek, and it wasn’t my idea to kill the character off. And it certainly was never in my contract!”
“It wasn’t?”
“Michael, a copy of my contract is right there where you are, in the administration building. Why don’t you have someone look it up, so you can see for yourself?”
He was silent a moment, then said, “If you say it isn’t there, then I believe you.”
“It’s not. Look, this is very important to me. I think we should meet again.”” — Leonard Nimoy, I AM SPOCK
“That’s the way Meyer wrote AND directed it. He’s been more than clear about that. The studio had script approval and new EXACTLY what it was buying. Nimoy knew that before he signed up. Said so in his autobiography. He also said it was total fiction that he asked or demanded for the character to be killed. He even talked of how he confronted Michael Eisner over it when Eisner was trying to retcon it right in front of him that Eisner wasn’t responsible for killing the character off, with the implication that he used Eisner’s embarrassment over it to help sell his directing.”
Wait I read Meyer DIDN’T want the scene at the end where Spocks pod landed on Genesis? I read he just wanted to shoot it off into space? But OK, fine.
And regardless, we can split hairs all day Nimoy was DONE with the role. That was the only reason they killed him. Ok so he didn’t demand it, fine, but he certainly had no issue with it and they O-N-L-Y did it because he wanted out of playing Spock. That was the difference. They didn’t want him to leave. Its the same situation when they killed off Dax in DS9. Terry Ferrell was the one who wanted out of the show, so they killed her. If she stayed like they asked there wouldn’t have been a death scene.
In Shatner’s case though they ONLY brought him back to kill him off. Thats the difference. And one you people can’t seem to accept. Well you literally had 20 years to get over it, I guess you need a bit more time.
Tiger2,
Re: I read Meyer DIDN’T want the scene at the end where Spocks pod landed on Genesis?
That’s right. Meyer filmed it with no GENESIS coffin ending. The idea for that came when Bennett was concerned at the test screenings that the audiences where exiting as if they had just been to a funeral, which they had and which was exactly as Meyer wanted it. But Bennett was convinced that it was STAR TREK’S funeral so he lobbied Eisner to give him the funds to film and add that.
As you can see here:
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Trek-II-The-Wrath-of-Khan.html
There’s no Spock/McCoy “Remember…” scene.
Shatner said it wasn’t in his script on the Director’s Cut extras. I recall Bennett himself filmed it asking Nimoy to try a mind meld as a “seed”.
On the Director’s Cut behind the scenes stuff Shatner was livid about it. I recall clearly he outright accused Bennett and Nimoy of colluding together to undermine the script and its director from the start. He even said he believes that they were outright lying that they had no idea where they were going with mind meld bit. The two had to know they were conspiring to undermine the Spock character’s death and resurrect him from the start as far as Shatner was concerned.
Re: And regardless
Can you please stop this nonsense where I remove two legs from your stool and you still keep insisting that it can stand and that you can safely sit on it?
Meyer was bringing Spock back to kill him just as Berman did with Kirk. a difference that makes no difference IS no difference.
Disinvited Meyer just made a movie, he has ZERO control over what character lives and dies. I mean its hilarious you think you have some point here. End of the day its the STUDIO who owns the characters and pays for Meyer’s salary along with budgeting the film that has the real power. Sure Meyer wanted Spock to die (which was what I was saying lol) but that doesn’t mean if a studio President doesn’t want a character back he wouldn’t come back.
The difference is that you can’t grasp for some bizarre reason is the studio WANTED Nimoy back at the time and they don’t want Shatner back today. When Nimoy was brought back he appeared in not only 4 more TOS films but two KT films. He was still relevant to the franchise. They bring Shatner back and then what? You think he’s going to have a recurring role on Discovery? YEah think again lol.
Tiger2,
Re:…that doesn’t mean if a studio President doesn’t want a character back he wouldn’t come back.
And that’s all I’m saying TOO. Until Paramount gets its new studio President you have no way of knowing if he or she wants Shatner’s Kirk character back or not — the next person could be his biggest fan for all you know. AND Shatner putting it out there that he’s interested makes imminent sense in lieu of things over there being in flux.
Rumour was that the script for the next movie had guardian from the city on edge of forever. Maybe they could change history in some way that kick was pre-warned about soran in the future and Kirkuk survives
No offense but that sounds really bad.
Many many ways Shatner could rejoin the fun, parallel universes, nexus shenanigans, JJ Abrams rewrote the entire universe and everyone’s fate; I am 65 and Shatner is in far far better shape than I at his age of 86.
Ageism is another bias we need to put in the past.
George Takei commented on how powerful Shatner’s voice still is, while bemoaning the ‘breakage’ of his on his 80th birthday party on Howard Stern.
Bad things can happen suddenly to healthy people reaching those ages. Look at Mike Conners, hale and hearty through his late 80s, looking as if he could still play tough-as-nails Mannix, gone at 91 from leukemia.
I find this funny everyone thinks its because he’s too old when its the fact they killed the guy off in another movie and no one is no longer making stories dealing with TOS anymore. THOSE are the main issues, not just his age. The TOS cast officially retired back in 1991 and then they went on to other casts and movies. Yes since that time there has been other appearances from other TOS characters but mostly as cameo roles. Shatner has made it clear he doesn’t want to do those kinds of roles and since trying to do a story of resurrecting him would have to be a story that revolves around him, well here we are.
Sadly though this is the problem with fandom. The guy had his time. No actor plays the same role for a life time. Sure some gets to replay a role decades after the fact (Harrison Fords career certainly feels that way these days) but sooner or later its just time to move on. And in his case he got a farewell ending. One that NO other TOS character has ever gotten until Spocks passing in Beyond due to Nimoy’s passing obviously.
But this constant need to bring back a character that you all know will be seen once again and part of productions that takes place DECADES from the last time we seen his character is unrealistic. They killed him off for a reason….to stay dead. Its not like Nimoy’s situation because Paramount wanted the actor to keep going, it was Nimoy who wanted to retire. Then they threw a bunch of money at him and he suddenly wanted to play Spock again. In THIS case though Paramount didn’t even want Shatner in Generations. They thought TOS was done after TUC. They had to be convinced to even bring him back for that movie. But once that was done they told themselves that was it and moved on.
I wish the fanboys can just accept that and move on already. He’s never going to be part of Star Trek like he was so anything at this point would feel like a gimmick and fan service.
The Franchise may be finished with TOS , but they released nearly 20 Novels for TOS over the last year 2016-17 , and someone is definitely buying them , Tiger2 ! And the New Series is around the TOS Era !
OMG, I swear I need aspirin every time I come to this board.
I’m talking about the original TOS ACTORS, not TOS the stories. I thought that was made pretty clear but I guess not. Yeah I think I know they are still doing TOS stories since I just watched the recently made film Beyond (which I love) for the fifth time last night about the adventures of Kirk, Spock and Uhura. Yes, I’m well aware there still TOS stories like the rest of the other shows. The original cast however has mostly been retired outside of a few cameos.
And since another KT film is (supposedly) coming out then there will be more TOS adventures. Thats what is funny people now have TOS big budget films and its STILL not enough for some fanboys. Its amazing.
Maybe take 2 Aspirin , Tiger2 !!
LOL! I will when TUP shows up again.
Shatner guest-starred on “Psych” as Juliet’s father a couple of times. If a USA Network show can afford him, I can’t see why CBS can’t splurge if they find a good role for him.
He was the star of a CBS comedy several years ago: “S#!t My Dad Says.” Cancelled after one season. It has nothing to do if they can ‘afford’ him or not as an actor. It has to do with playing a role they killed off decades ago. Do people seriously not get this is an issue? Especially when you are dealing with prequel movies and shows?
Tiger2,
What’s the length of time of death have to do with anything once they’ve introduced resurrection from total radioactive cellular disruption not once, but TWICE via two different methods? And lord knows what the decaying rotting tribble on McCoy’s desk came back from?
I just don’t get this weird obsession of yours with elapse timed for the characters making this unfeasable? People didn’t have any problem with Scotty being in a not living state for 75 years aboard the Jenolan and then popping out for an episode jaunt. I swear, you behave as if once a character dies on screen they pull all movies and episodes featuring them from syndication reruns and mindwipe all memory of them from the viewing culture.
Disinvited I don’t understand why you don’t understand. I have explained it so many times, and yet here we are. Look, end of the day neither of us makes any decisions on this stuff. I’m only telling you from both a story and studio point of view. I have it stated multiple times now. You don’t accept it. Fine, meanwhile, 23 years later Shatner has still not played Kirk since. And I can almost guarantee you he will never play him again and its for those reasons you don’t seem to get. *I* have nothing to do with it obviously but if you think he’s going to play Kirk again well I have a wall to sell to Mexico.
I’ll make it clear as day, I am completely fine if he comes back. But he never will. His last chance was probably the first KT film.
Tiger2,
Re: I don’t understand why you don’t understand.
I’m probably confused by your constant introduction of irrelevancies like a comedy show in which he never resurrected the character.
But as you seem bound and determined to go there: in the general public’s mind, where this matters by your estimation, Seth MacFarlane’s comedy matters more and he had Shatner reprise his Captain Kirk for 2013’s Oscar ceremony, just as he had done seven years prior for DirecTV which clearly had to be part of Brad Grey’s Paramount testing the Trek waters as they had to sign off on it. So you need to adjust your “No one’s associated him with the role for 23 years baloney by 19 years.
Dude that was a bit for the Oscars. It was fun but my god you are equating a fun comedy role for resurrecting his character in shows and films that are simply no longer about him. I can’t state this any more clearly. Star Trek has clearly moved on long, long ago. They gave you a NEW Kirk for new adventures and you are still pining for the old one.
Seth MacFarlane doesn’t run Star Trek man. Disinvited, come back to reality already. NO ONE at Paramount or CBS has any interest for him to play the role again. And if you believe the rumors about Star Trek 3 and that Orci script was kicked to the curb because he had Shatner in it should tell you everything you need to know.
Its over. What do you people need to do to move on at this point? Its been 23 years already. You HAVE a new Kirk, its not like the character is dead altogether. Be happy you have a new Kirk at all.
Tiger2,
Re: …my god you are equating a fun comedy role for resurrecting his character…
NO! YOU DID, when you claimed a comedy series, “S#!t My Dad Says.”, had relevancy to his returning to the role. I’m just humoring YOU with what YOU claimed was relevant and countering it.
Sometimes when I talk to you I imagine you heavily medicated because you constantly miss what are basic points. I was only saying CBS had hired him to be on a show again in response to a poster who said CBS is too cheap to hire him. And in fairness he didn’t say cheap just that they don’t think he’s worth whatever he asks for. I was only making the point it has nothing to do with just salary alone in terms of Kirk, but a very important story one. Thats it.
No one is saying Shatner can’t work again or no one wants to hire him. But as far as Kirk is concerned, thats done. Need to let go already.
Tiger2,
Re: you constantly miss what are basic points
The feeling is mutual, but I would express it without the constant recourse to bigoted ageism which only fuels my resolve that STAR TREK needs an old person in the cast to demonstrate what tripe the “conventional” wisdom is about old age.
And the OP was very clear, the splurge being discussed was for a GOOD ROLE for him. So you brought up the base “S#!t My Dad Says.” but we are supposed to just know you didn’t mean it as another in the many Shatner swipes you’ve been taking in citing it as a splurge for a GOOD CBS role for the actor? It wasn’t even on the level of the PSYCH role that the OP mentioned.
Disinvited, once again this is my point. Its not JUST age man, jesus. Read ALL my posts here, I have pointed out multiple reasons why its probably hard for him to come back, mostly RELEVANCE! That is the biggest issue out of all of them. Why would he come back outside of simple fan service?
Stop saying I don’t think he should come back because he’s too old. There are nearly half dozen OTHER reasons than age, bigger ones I might add. Mostly bringing back a guy who died 80 years in the future. Why on god’s Earth would be the reason to do it? Can you at least give me one decent plot line? Because believe me WHATEVER you come up with is going to be convoluted as hell lol.
And Shatner himself gave another one of those reasons, ie, bringing back a dead Kirk in the same time period when a Kirk in his prime exists right now, for both Discovery and the KT films.
“The problem I guess is what do you do with an aging captain whose youthful existence is already there?”
His words man. That is the problem indeed. ;)
And I never seen PSYCH. I never seen “S#!t My Dad Says.” I couldn’t tell you a thing about either one of those shows, if they are good and had no clue Shatner was ever in PSYCH. I simply gave an example CBS hired him before and that was it, christ. Can you get off my back about it?
Tiger2,
Re: Its not JUST age
Fine. but when you have concerns about Shatner and his fans possibly overwhelming a new show, can you just say it as simply as that and leave off all the unnecessary OLD appellations and belittling ad homenim attacks on everyone interested in this even if it has zero appeal for you? Whether you want to acknowledge it or not there ARE fans of Shatner’s Kirk from all age groups.
And “S#!t My Dad Says.” was produced by Warner Bros Television and is distributed by CBS television, a better and more recent (2013 and we all know how important things not be more than 5 years out for you.) example of Shatner guest-appearing in a CBS television distributed show would be HOT IN CLEVELAND. And more relevant to the issue at hand because that was a long running series starring Betty White.
Tiger2,
Re: … if you believe the rumors
Would you please stop embarrassing yourself with these BS strawman rumors of yours? Even if we were to give it credence over the other Orci rumors, and I certainly don’t, there’s not one person left of the Brad Grey failed regime at Paramount that fired him, which should have told YOU everything YOU needed to know before attempting to pull this stunt. You haven’t the foggiest notion what the as yet to be hired chief manager of production at Paramount would make of anything.
Yeah there are RUMORS. You can believe it or not if its actually true. Thats why they are called rumors lol.
Are you actually William Shatner? It would explain so much. And if you are can I get an autograph?
Tiger… I was simply addressing the article’s comment, “They wouldn’t have the same issues with jumping from one reality to the other, but could they ever afford him on a TV budget?”
Gotcha Thorny!
But I still think they mean in terms of playing Kirk meaning if he played Kirk or on a show he may demand too much money. I’m not saying that I think thats what they are implying that playing Kirk specifically would cost extra which I think has always been for him playing his most iconic character. If he was playing someone else I’m sure he would be cheaper.
Shatner has a different price tag for Star Trek. IIRC his large $ demand was sticking point when he was in talks to do ST Enterprise
Sisko Is The Prophet,
That was likely just typical Hollywood sour grapes from a Rick Berman, schooled in the famed Roddenberry pettiness, bitterly offended that Shatner did not fall instantly in love with Sussman’s Chef as he had to the point of including the character in the series finale.
Rick Berman and his assistant were NOT privy to Shatner’s contract negotiations with Paramount.
That’s my take, too. I can’t see Shatner being overjoyed at returning to Trek by playing ‘Chef’.
Exactly! And probably part of the reason we will never see him again as Kirk. Its even rumored he was asked to be on Discovery but wanted too much money. But I take all of that as rumor. I really doubt he was even asked to be on that show for obvious reasons but that what someone claimed on another board.
Besides which, why shouldnt Shatner have a big price tag for Trek? Why does the studio think he should get the same pay as nameless extra #4 when the mere rumor of Shatner being in Trek results in millions of dollars of free pub??
He knows this. And he’s correct.
They don’t think he’s worth it anymore. Thats how capitalism works. You weird Shatner fanboys probably thinks he deserve as much as he wants, the studio that actually cuts the pay checks disagrees with you. Thats just reality.
Shat, its over. You’re already past life expectancy. Go away.
You shat yourself again. Shat keep winning and pissing of the little nerds.
off….
“…producer J.J. Abrams said last summer “there’s something about his having died that makes it impossible.””
Abrams was showing his ignorance of the franchise when he said this. Preiviously, Spock, McCoy and Scotty had all died yet managed to come back. Also Lt. Leslie, although that may not have been deliberate. “It’s never been done before, except for the times that it has.”
for sciences sake let it die. Jim Kirk is dead. DEAD. died on a bridge. over. your books attempting to bring back Kirk were lame and contrived. I love captain kirk. I respect Shatner. but the truth is, your character is dead.
^^This!
Picard buried him. Let the man stay buried.
^^ Not This!!
^^Can’t let go of the past. SAD!
To paraphrase John Fitzgerald Kennedy: We want production companies to choose to do STAR TREK space based science-fiction NOT because they think it is easy, but because they KNOW it is hard.
THAT is the crucible from which great Trek narratives are forged.
Yeah so lets bring in a 90 year old actor to play a role that he hasn’t played in over 20 years not because its something that is different and challenging but because it would be lazy fan service to please old fanboys who just want nostalgia all the time instead of new and daring characters or stories. While we’re at it let’s bring in Sulu, Uhura and Chekhov and put them on the original old Enterprise bridge and duke it out with the Romulans one last time.
If you honestly believed in that quote, you would be keeping tired fan service and casting gimmicks far away as possible and be willing to see Trek forge ahead in a different frontier it never has before.
Tiger2,
I don’t know how many times I have to repeated it as I have consistently said I don’t want Shatner to return at all costs just for the sake of returning in something with STAR TREK slapped on it.
Where you and I part ways, is I think with an excellent writer and director that Shatner can still deliver the goods. You on the other hand keeping serving up ageist tripe about why STAR TREK can boldly explore everything about the universe except a person of healthy advanced old age still making a difference.
Disinvited, Tiger2 has tunnelvision and either is not capable, or simply doesn’t want to think out of the box. Why so many are delusional in their reasoning, expecting a 86 year old Kirk to be come into the story with all the bells and whistles of a 34 ear old Kirk, is beyond me. Real people change. Real people age. There’s nothing at all wrong with presenting and exploring the character of Kirk in ANY age range from 66-86. Because Shatner can pass as a 60- something and he IS an 80-something. And if Hollywood DOES want to de-age him to look even younger, that just makes for even more possibilities. With the right story, seeing Kirk again has the potential to be very very good.
And I couldn’t care less about the Nexus. Aside from the tiny minority of hard core fans that are hung up on such things, no one else, especially those in the mainstream…those masses that equate Kirk and Spock with Star Trek, knows about it or cares.
What’s delusional is thinking anyone but TOS fanboys is begging to have Shatner back. Its not just about his age, about relevance which you guys sadly don’t seem to understand.
Moonves said it a day ago, Discovery is to attract YOUNGER fans, ie, 20s-30s most likely. The show has to be relevant to THEM. Bringing in a very old character who last time even had an appearance was before a lot of these people were even born is not relevant for them, its only relevant for you and thats the problem. The show is trying to push for a new generation, not simply to please the old one. Putting it back in the same timeline is to try and please older fans but it sounds like the show is going to be rebooted with a different spin on what we seen before and break out into its own thing. Its going to spend any time trying to resurrect 90 year old characters that are not relevant to what the show is attempting to do.
Sure there was the KT films but that time has also now passed, especially now with Nimoy gone. That was the one anchor they had to make his character relevant. What I find funny is you guys so desperately want to see them bring this character back but once they do then what? Most of his long time mates have already died. He’s living in a universe that is no longer relevant for him. What would be the point? There is none other than “We really want to see Shatner as Kirk again.”
You guys keep looking in a car mirror observing the road you past when you should be looking through the windshield at the road ahead. This is what you are sadly missing. You’re talking about ‘de-aging’ an actor from 80 to 60 lol. Again, you’re missing the entire boat on this. What should be ‘de-aging’ is Star Trek itself and that is to be new and different, not old and nostalgic.
I don’t have the tunnelvision. You have the tunnelvision when you make these sad posts trying to desperately have an actor relive his glory days in a role when the franchise is no longer about him or has any reason for him to be there. Hasn’t been in a long, long time and yeah never will be again.
His character died in Generations. Thats where he should be left.
Well said, Tiger. And I’ll be 51 this year, one of the purported “TOS Fanboys.” I love Shatner as Kirk, THEN.
No matter how old each of use are, don’t we all just want great Trek on TV again?
Thanks Danpaine! Yeah all I’m saying. I LOVE Kirk, he’s one of my top 5 favorite characters in the franchise, but his time is over. Or I should say Shatner’s time as Kirk is over. I just find it funny how these sad fanboys so desperately want to put a 90 year old actor to play a character again that has zero relevance to what is happening in Trek today. None. Yeah they moved it back to the 23rd century but when the character is in his prime. What would be the point of rehashing a dead Kirk for at this point? None. They HAVE a new Kirk, just be happy you have the character at least. If it was up to me I wouldn’t even have that but I love Pine’s Kirk now.
See, what you don’t seem to get, is the fact that a modern audience, not familiar with Shatner or Kirk…a stretch, I know, but we’ll play along….will treat his appearance as nothing more than another guest star of the week. Discovery WILL have guest stars. Actors who are part of a story but not part of the cast. Should Shatner show up, as Kirk, the young audience will care every bit as much as they care about any other actor that comes aboard for a one hour installment. It’s a non-issue. If they DO recognize him, it’s just gravy.
There is no loser in the Shatner scenario.
Jonboc, it has nothing to do with if they know the guy lol. It comes down to relevance. His Kirk has ZERO in the story Discovery is telling. None. It would just be a forced gimmick for fan service to old fanboys who can’t let go. In this time period there is a 20 something year old Kirk around. More than likely they want to bring him on the show at some point. That would actually be relevant to the show at least. If you want to see Kirk again, fine, but something that flows with the show and its story line, not some tired fan service for the sake of fan service.
Tiger2,
Re: Moonves
The problem with this line of reasoning is that this is the same Moonves that was in charge of UPN and ENTERPRISE, and who footed the bill for this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050325071222/http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/10226.html
”Coto recounted that Shatner pitched the idea to him, Brannon Braga and Rick Berman over lunch. They loved it, but Berman pitched an alternative concept, which was actually devised by Mike Sussman.” — StarTrek.com
And this:
“Seeing that [USS DEFIANT from the THOLIAN WEB used in IN A MIRROR, DARKLY] bridge was just the greatest thing. We had a steady procession coming onto those soundstages for the week or so that bridge was up — people from all over calling up and wanting to get shots and photos in the captain’s chair. It was a great example of how popular the Original Series still is. I hope you enjoy the episode. We had a blast writing it.” — Many Coto, 2005
And wouldn’t take his William Shatner dolls that were outselling his Chris Pine licensed dolls off the retail store shelves for Abrams.
Moonves doesn’t seem to be following your line that he’s stopped wasting money pursuing Shatner boosts from an aged forgotten series among the young for his STAR TREK.
My favorite DS9 episode is Trials and Tribbulations. I LOVE that stuff, are you kidding me??? In a Mirror Darkly and being back on that bridge (even though it was the Defiant) was super cool. You seem to think I’m against TOS or something. I’m not, I always love when they can bring it back in a nice way that is fan service but can tell great stories out of it.
That has nothing to do with what is being discussed here. Shatner had his time. They tried a few times to include but for whatever reason it never gelled. I would’ve LOVED if he got on Enterprise. Sounds like a missed opportunity sadly. But it didn’t happen so thats life.
Can you imagine Shatner pitching that pretty cool idea for a Mirror return and Berman countering with “yeah yeah, but how about you’re the Chef instead?” My God. No wonder an appearance never happened. Shatner must have thought they were all amateurs.
jonboc,
Re: simply doesn’t want to think out of the box
Thanks, I know what you mean. And the constant extreme gross exaggerations and strawmanning, it’s as if some of these people are harboring secret phobias that if the actor makes a significant contribution to an episode of DISCOVERY with a Kirk having an equally healthy advanced old age that Shatner’s Kirk will reconquer and dominate the franchise again. LOL.
Sure the series are aimed at the young, but the last thing the young need is to be shielded from is the final frontier of growing old.
Shatner’s Kirk had his time. I didn’t say he can’t be good in the role again I’m saying Star Trek needs to move forward not back to please a bunch of nostalgic fanboys who sadly can’t let go.
@Disnivited,
The worst thing any new Trek series could do is trot out any of the old cast members from any of the previous shows. All of them prey on the nostalgia of the core fans rather than push the franchise forward for the new ones. If an old fan needs a cameo from one of the original stars of one of the previous productions to get them to watch it, then there’s more wrong with this franchise than is fixable by attempting such a stunt-casting in the first place.
Let’s hope we never see any of the TNG, DS9, VOY, or ENT cast reprise their respective roles as well. What a horrible lack of vision.
Curious Cadet,
Re: The worst thing
I’ve been more than clear that I’m not advocating stunt casting, but I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that’s the sort thing Moonves’ loves on his OTA network.
I just think its absurd that people are advocating that the production shouldn’t hire an Emmy award-winning actor because that’s automatically the only kind of use to which they’ll put his talents.
Look, if they aren’t willing to hire at least an equally award-nominated writer and director for whatever story they dream up and realize that he’d be the perfect fit for a hopefully Emmy nominated episode, then I’m with you.
The last thing I want to see is Shatner on DISCOVERY playing Kirk’s chef ancestor recruited to impersonate his retired Admiral great-great-great-great grandson where the two meet in the final act.
Thats the thing I have no issue if they bring characters back. I would be fine if they brought Shatner’s Kirk back, but yes it needs to be done for a strong reason and thats the problem for me: There is none. The TOS fanboys knows there is none either. Nothing that has happened in Star Trek since Kirk has been killed off has been relevant to that character. Nothing. The KT films take place in another universe with a Kirk in his prime time. Discovery will also take place in a universe where a younger Kirk is already around. So what would be the point again?
There is no point. They just want to see Shatner play Kirk again. And thats fine but its nothing but fan service. It serves zero purpose to the productions they want to bring him back in but then say people like us has the problem lol. You just said it, its stunt casting for the sake of stunt casting. They killed the character off. Yes it doesn’t mean they can’t bring him back, thats not the point. What is the relevance to bringing him back? Why does anyone (within this fictional story of bringing back an 80 year old character who literally died decades in the future from their perspective) NEED to bring him back for? Everyone keeps going on with their fan fiction how its possible Kirk could come back but I NEVER hear ‘why’ he should be brought back?
Because there isn’t an answer, its just so they can see him again and thats just blatant lazy fan service of the worse kind. There is zero story purpose to it. Its shocking how they don’t see that or in complete denial about it.
Ah, Kirk did not fall off a bridge, the bridge he was on fell with him on it, and it crushed him.
Jack Burgin,
Re: …it crushed him.
And as we all know, recovery from complete excessive cellular irradiation is FAR MORE LIKELY — There’s TWO completely different forms of regenerating from it. — than a crushing blow?
It’s a bring him back and it would have to be about kirk, why has age? where has he been? dose he remember? is it real kirk? Now I have an idea, how to bring him, but kirk would have to be one of the main focus, would an 86 year old actor want an 13 episodes season for 5 to 10 seasons? I want bore anyone with my idea, as I am sure you have your own, just do we real want a Wesley! Just popping up with no reason
Pilotfred,
Re: …would an 86 year old actor want an 13 episodes season for 5 to 10 seasons?
You’d have to ask Betty white why she did 6 seasons of HOT IN CLEVELAND?
What if everything that happened at the end of GENERATIONS happened IN the Nexus? In other words, Picard and Kirk just thought. left the Nexus, but didn’t — Picard just had the adventure he wanted to have, but didn’t really have the ability to leave as “echo” Guinan told him? In fact, “echo” Guinan could have just been another figment of his fantasy where his brain tried to work out where he was. Maybe the reality is, once in, you’re in forever. This would have made FC, INS & NEM all fantasy adventures of Picards Nexus realm, but honestly would anybody really care? It would certainly explain many things. Heck, along with STV, I’d be happy to de-canonize GEN, and skip right from TNG series to FC as the film franchise launch.
Its not over. Shut up. Who knows how much time he has left? We are so lucky to have the most important character in Trek history (argue if you will but it is true) still amazingly vibrant at 86. To not take advantage of this before he inevitably does pass would be the biggest missed opportunity ever.
yep. Still a monumental botch-up for the series 50th anniversary to bail on the idea that brought Shatner into the fold. Instead we got Beyond…worst performing movie of the bunch…on the franchise’s 50th anniversary. The powers that be would be well served to go back and revisit the mistakes made and learn from them (even though the movies are not tied to to the TV end…they can still learn from each other’s mistakes…if they can’t, well, there’s problem number one.)
I actually agree with this. It was idiotic not to have Shatner in the last film. IIRC it was going to be Pine’s older version of Kirk which would’ve been fine. And I think it was just one scene or something. But yes that would’ve been a great way to do it. Again I’m not against the idea of bringing Shatner back, they just have to find a compelling or logical reason to do it. Having him appear in a dream sequence or something works. Thats fine and what they should’ve did. And the story is not about him, its about Pine’s Kirk so Shatner is a part of it but doesn’t take it over.
But Paramount no longer wants Shatner involved so it was a pig headed idea but if there was the one time to bring him in a story that was it.
Tiger2,
Re: they just have to find a compelling or logical reason to do it
And THAT’s all I’ve been advocating in regards to Shatner, as well.
I am certainly NOT interested in productions that only want to use his Q advertising numbers to draw viewers to self-indulgent tripe from a producer, writer, director OR actor in getting him to return to Trek.
I certainly don’t want to see him back in any Trek if the production isn’t interested in going to the trouble of extracting an Emmy worthy best performance out of him.
Yes I GET that, I do. The problem is that has now simply past. THATS the issue.
Dude I said this in my FIRST post here. Go read it please! I said I would’ve been fine if they came up with a way to get him on DS9 or Voyager. I also said I was disappointed he couldn’t be on Enterprise. I then said it would’ve been cool if they worked out a way to get him in the first KT film, but Shatner HIMSELF said what they were thinking of he would’ve turned down anyway, which is his right, but beggars can’t be choosers, right?
My point is Disinvited all the possible opportunities has now dried up IMO. It makes zero sense to have him in another KT film because Nimoy is no longer there, so what;s the connection. Why in god’s name would anyone on that ship try and bring back a dead Kirk…from another universe? Discovery will have its own serial arc its first season, do you honestly think Disinvited they should stop their 13 story arc to bring in some side story of resurrecting Kirk? OK…WHY?? Can you give me a real answer how bringing him back could be relevant to that show’s story line? Especially when the show exists with a Kirk already fully alive and young? So what would be the relevance?
We already know if there is another KT film that’s going to involve bringing Kirk’s dad back, so resurrections are all used up in that film already. And while I think that idea SUCKS I can at least see the relevance of doing that for Kirk’s development. What does bringing back a dead Kirk no one knew ever existed would do for THOSE characters? How does it relate to THEM? That’s your problem right there. At least in all the 24th century shows, they actually knew who Kirk was and what he did. Here, no one knows him or his importance because none of it has happened yet from their POV. So again, why?
At least with Prime Spock, his presence is what help unify the new crew and it set up an alternate timeline to push future stories. Furthermore no one was actively looking for Spock to show up, he just did on his own by accident. With Kirk to show up, it would have to be a proactive thing to do. It would have to matter in the sense someone has to give a reason why bringing a dead character back is even worthy of doing….while the younger version of that character exists within both Discovery and definitely the KT films. Do you not get it yet?
If you don’t want to see indulgent tripe then yeah man, thats why you should keep him dead in the first place. Wasn’t having him in Generations an example of indulgent tripe already?
Tiger2,
Re: Wasn’t having him in Generations an example of indulgent tripe already?
Well, we certainly agree there. But I wonder if we agree on whose tripe (Berman and Braga for me.) it was?
And while you think Shatner’s spent at Paramount, I believe the new regime gives him one last shot to appear in their next Trek film whether anything develops from that we’ll have to see, and Moonves, has a history of stunt casting.
Still haven’t answered how they can bring him back and it would feel relevant to the show. ;)
I really think a new regime would just move on with new characters and crew completely if they discard the KT films. But if they did decide to reboot TOS again (I hope not) then they would probably wait at least 5 years before even making another film to give enough time for people to forget the last cast.
Tiger2,
Re: Still haven’t answered how they can bring him back and it would feel relevant to the show.
I never said I was an award-worthy writer and I certainly don’t hold you in that regard.
However, I am certain that, even in his dotage, that, if they’d give him his fee, that the likes of Harlan Ellison could come up with something that’d put as all to shame.
LOL thank you for proving my man.
If you Shatner fanboys can’t even come up with a decent premise of a man you are so dying to have back then believe an ‘award winning writer’ isn’t going to do much better. Why? Because how he died is already convoluted enough. You add in the fact that we are watching prequels that are decades before it even happens its even harder. Of course they can always bring back the Nexus back but wants to see THAT again?
LOL Harlan Ellison, yeah that old bird only complains about Trek 50 years later. Paramount will be on the phone with him pronto like allllll those other times they have called him for Trek stories since 1967. ;)
Tiger2,
Re: old bird
You ain’t fooling nobody. You always pull out these ageist slams when you have nothing. And BTW plenty of women are Shatner fans.
You do know Paramount asked him to pitch for the movie after 1967?
Kindly document where you came up with the premise of Pine Kirk’s Khan blood resurrection before they filmed it? I’m still waiting for your Kirk’s father decent premise that makes it ok for them to attempt bringing him back, despite the fact you’ve already said you don’t like it on its face, over any other expired character’s return?
LOL did you say ‘1967’? Again THIS is my point.
And I’m not trying to ‘fool’ anyone man, of course age is a factor but its not the ONLY factor or the main one. But of course, the man is almost 90 years old, he’s not turhing 60 but 90. Thats going to be an issue on many levels INCLUDING story one because he looks nothing like he did in Generations. Make up can only do so much.
Tiger2,
Re: did you say ‘1967’?
NO, YOU DID!
“Paramount will be on the phone with him pronto like allllll those other times they have called him for Trek stories since 1967.” — Tiger2
I was just responding in kind to a point YOU made. You don’t want to talk about points, like 1967, then don’t bring them up as you look silly pointing into a mirror laughing at yourself.
BTW in the Prime universe Kirk died in 2371 and he’d only been dead for 16 years when Ambassador Spock created the KT in 2387. Whereas, in the KT, Hemsworth’s Kirk has been dead for MORE than twice that length of time.
You keep saying this as this matters? It doesn’t. They want Hemsworth in the movie and he doesn’t look like he aged 30 years (because it hasn’t been that long) vs Shatner who they don’t want and clearly looks like he’s aged a lot longer than 16 years because in real time he has. And would actually make it MORE of a problem to reappear not less. ;)
Tiger2,
Re: 30 years.
Cut it out. You are the one who kept bringing up the argument that various TOS characters shouldn’t have been popping up in NG’s most recently explored timeline because they have zero relevance to the new crew and they have been missing in action in the 24th century timeline for far too long.
In the KT, Hemsworth’s character has been AWOL for 33 years. His looks certainly have nothing to do with it as you have absolutely no idea what price those looks will have to pay in their bringing him back in a non-convoluted manner.
In one possible example, Prime Khan aged and had grey hair. If they do find Hemsworth’s body 33 years after the fact, it would be absolutely convoluted that the Khan blood used to rejuvenate him would be able to restore his 33yo dead cells to the complete youthful vigor of actor Hemsworth when they couldn’t prevent the never dead Khan from aging over a similar span of time.
And the point that I am making is not that dead cells age the same as living cells which they obviously don’t, but that Khan’s rejuvenators clearly have imitations and something has to give for them to be sensible in returning to life, cells in a body with extensively broken DNA from 33 years of not living.
Tiger2,
Re: probably wait at least 5 years
I thought Sony’s reboots of SPIDER-MAN supposedly ended the need to wait for reboots in the industry?
Sadly Star Trek isn’t Spider-Man. And they did wait 5 years between Spider Man 3 and The Amazing Spider Man. In the case of the latest reboot its mostly because Disney wanted to use him for their MCU films and Sony gets to have him in the MCU so they probably rebooted it much faster than usual.
But look how long it took between Nemesis and ST2009? It probably would’ve came out a bit sooner if Paramount had its way but that took 7 years. I don’t think it would be that long again though.
The de-aged Kurt Russell very well in Guardians 2. It’s not perfect, but it’s more than good enough. There’s really no reason that he can’t do it other than the people in charge don’t want to make it happen, which is a shame.
I’m not a big fan of the Shat, but why the hell not? He wants to do it, a large number of fans and the public would welcome it, so if there’s another film, write him into it fer crissakes! I can’t see it hurting the film, more likely it’d be a win-win for the studio and fans.
Holy Shat!
Whoops, guess that can’t be the future Trek–already done (Star Trek V).
I wish he could do an episode with the Star Trek Continues team. I know their production schedule is locked, but one more with Shatinator could be fun.
2 things 1st the timeline is different now and there could be an aged Kirk from this timeline that never died. 2nd It was explained that time has no meaning in the nexus. The kirk that picard pulled out was just one of many different alternative timeline realities. just like guinan was still there in the nexus Kirk could still be there as well even though a version of him left and died.