First Half-Season Of ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Extended To Nine Episodes + Breaks New All Access Record

This afternoon CBS has announced a scheduling change for Star Trek: Discovery as well as some new information on how it is doing on All Access.

Season will now be split after first 9 episodes instead of 8

When the premiere date for Star Trek: Discovery was announced CBS revealed the fifteen episode season would be broken into two “chapters” with the first eight episodes airing between September and November and the final seven beginning in January of 2018. Today they announced the first chapter will be comprised of nine episodes with the final episode of chapter one debuting on Sunday, Nov. 12. The second chapter, featuring the remaining six episodes, will return in January 2018.

All Access sets another record

Only the first episode of Star Trek: Discovery aired on broadcast television so there will be no ratings for the rest of the series in the US. However, CBS did announce today that Discovery had again set a record high for subscriber sign-ups in a single week. CBS All Access’ daily growth in subscribers is up more than 200 percent year-over-year.

President of CBS Interactive Marc DeBevoise said in a statement:

Consumer response to the launch of Star Trek: Discovery has been tremendous. The build up to the show’s premiere led us to a record-setting month, week and ultimately day of sign-ups. The second week of the series has also exceeded our expectations and is a credit to the brilliant and dedicated work of the show’s entire creative team and cast. We can’t wait for fans to see what comes next for the U.S.S. Discovery and its crew.

According to CBS, Discovery is the most streamed premiere of a CBS show across their digital platforms on record, measured against all CBS programming – both in front of and behind the CBS All Access paywall. And according to data retained by Variety, “CBS was able to almost double the mobile subscription revenue for its CBS All Access service” with the premiere of Star Trek: Discovery


Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusive in the US on CBS All Access with new episodes released Sundays at 8:30 pm ET. In Canada Star Trek: Discovery airs on the Space Channel at the same time. Discovery is available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada with new episodes made available Monday at 8 am BST.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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Waiting for all of the former this thing will never see the light of day people, who are now the this CBS All Access will be a failure people to come along with their latest predictions. Oh and the gratuitous “I will NEVER pay $5.99 to watch Star TreK” and “it violates my principals” and what not.

@yellowdogsc — Well, technically speaking, this week’s sign ups are still free preview weeks. I was only charged my first subscription fee on Sunday. I’m expecting these announcements to continue, but the reality is CBSAA won’t be telling us whether they retain those first week free preview sign ups. Still, it’s significant for brand awareness, and bodes well overall.

One of the best metrics to see viewer engagement is the number of votes on imdb. Ignoring the actual star rating given, what people should really be focusing on is the actual volume of votes. While GOT has 30,000 odd for the most recent episode 4 weeks ago, STD is at around 2700 or so votes now for some 2 weeks ago.
The budget of GOT is obviously a couple of million higher per episode, but STD should really be looking to hit that level toward the end of the season in order to justify another, or there’s a strong chance Netflix will cite low viewing figures as a reason to cut, or end it’s payments to cover the production costs in full.

I doubt Netflix will look at votes on IMDB to make any decisons whatsoever. And you cant compare GoT season 7 to Discovery after two weeks. Thats absurd.

Yes, that is absurd. GoT didn’t begin to cement its status as a world phenomenon until its third year. I very much doubt that CBS or Netflix have even remotely similar expectations for Discovery.

Yup and Trek is actually niche’er than GoT which might seem counter intuitive but GoT has become a modern cultural phenomenon.

Star Trek as a whole IS, but Discovery would kill to be in the public consciousness in the way GoT is. In fact 99% of TV shows would. When you look at percentage of HBO subscribers that watch GoT live, its ridiculous. HUGELY popular show.

The biggest hurdle is getting people to sign up.

We heard all the whiners complain about the streaming service and how no one would use, no one would go to the trouble etc.

Spending money is easy. When we add a channel to our cable package its as simple as a click on the remote or a phone call. Signing up is a bit more intensive (lol). So the fact people are doing that, even for free, is a great sign.

There will always be churn. And they will do the free month thing repeatedly. Netflix does. It works. You retain a few people over the churn cycle and slowly grow your consistent subscriber base.

Not entirely true. Reported nowhere until you tried to sign up if you opt for the commercial free version for some idiot reason your free trial time is only two days. Not a week.

I still can’t understand why it violates somebody’s principles to pay a fee that is less than what Netflix charges.
Highly Illogical.

The volume of interesting content on CBS is pretty much nil, whereas Netflix (and Amazon) have tons of great programming choices. I can’t understand why folks wouldn’t see it that clearly. I spent money to get Showtime for the run of TWIN PEAKS, more than it cost to do the CBS thing, but that was SO worth it (have watched the entire new season three times through, and episode 8 about 10 times already. Cancelling now, but only because it is coming to BluRay in December.)

So kmart you just disproved your own argument, since you paid more to sign up for Showtime for a single series than people would pay to sign up for CBSAA for a single series. And you have no regrets!

Yes, I’m mystified by the logic there myself. You of course can say (and probably will) that there’s a universe of difference in terms of artistic merit between DSC and the TWIN PEAKS reboot, but that’s not the argument you were making.

Jeez, it’s Star Trek. I remember when fans were offering to hand over to Paramount their cold hard cash just so the studio would make a damned movie. Not having the money I can understand, but this refusal to sign up “on principle” I honestly don’t get. 8 million per episode ain’t exactly chump change, and it has to come from somewhere.

Or the people willing to shell out loads of cash on crowdfunding of Anaxar.

Heh. Guilty as charged. Won’t say what I donated (not to mention several days of volunteer work), but you could make a pretty decent down payment on a car with it. I’m lucky to be able to absorb that kind of a loss, but in retrospect it seems I did put my trust in the wrong people.

So I’m guessing that a buck 50 per episode on AA isn’t that bad for you. lol

Because Axanar was planned to be STAR TREK for the fans. STD is Generic Sci-Fi Non Star Trek for regular Sci-Fi fans

People dumped money in blindly… sight unseen.

Well, you might want to check the Twitter feed of AXANAR director Robert Meyer Burnett, who certainly agrees with you (and then some). I met him when I volunteered and he struck me as a nice guy who really knows his Trek (he directed FREE ENTERPRISE and put together the TNG DVD bonus features among other things), but in my opinion his comments regarding Discovery have been absolutely unhinged. So there might be a more congenial home for you over there. 😊

Yeah, that strikes me as nothing but bitter grapes on RMB’s part. Which is fine if he wants to be petty. Discovery is doing far more interesting things in my opinion than Axanar looked to be doing.

And I guess I must be a regular sci-fi fan then, because I’m loving Discovery. Never mind I’ve been watching Trek since I was 5.

“Yeah, that strikes me as nothing but bitter grapes on RMB’s part. Which is fine if he wants to be petty. Discovery is doing far more interesting things in my opinion than Axanar looked to be doing.”

In spite of my own gripes with the new show that’s pretty much my sense of it, too. I made a few attempts to engage Burnett on his feed, having downloaded Twitter for just that purpose. I quickly discovered that it’s one of the most awful ways to communicate your thoughts on just about any subject that has ever been conceived. Smoke signals would have been more productive, seriously. Plus, he pretty much ignores comments he’d rather not respond to anyway, so I quickly threw in the towel and called it a day.

What rankled me even more than Burnett’s over-the-top-commentary (after a few minutes’ viewing he called Discovery the BATTLEFIELD EARTH of Trek series, I kid you not) was his obvious bias and willingness to engage in double-standards. For example, he called the Vulcans’ willingness to shoot first just about the worst creative decision in Star Trek, ever, ignoring that this policy had apparently been put in place centuries before, when according to the Enterprise prequel series that noble race had fallen-away from its commitment to Surak’s teachings of non-violence, awaiting the day when a human starship captain/savior would set their civilization back on course. Now, I hated the way Enterprise handled that story, but it was put on film, is therefore canon–and if anyone on this earth is a Trek canonista it’s Robert Meyer Burnett. Hell, even that scene he directed that took place on Vulcan acknowledged their fall from grace, so why trash another series using it as a plot point?

It’s a shame, because I liked his work on PRELUDE TO AXANAR and think he might have made a decent fan film, if his business partner hadn’t squandered the hundreds of thousands of dollars received in donations, including my own. That’ll never happen now, but that’s really not on CBS, and certainly not the fault of the people who are working so hard to make a new Trek series a reality.

Robert Meyer Burnett is an arrogant nutcase who doesn’t know Star Trek nearly as well as he likes to claim he does. He’s also not a very good writer, so take what he says with a grain of salt.

I think he knows a great deal about Trek, actually, but that and his former professional association with the franchise don’t make his aesthetic judgements any more valid than yours or mine, regardless. On that subject he did call the now-never-to-be-shot AXANAR screenplay “the best Trek movie script I’ve ever read,” which is something I’d sure like to check out for myself. Unfortunately, in spite of my volunteer work and hefty donation I suspect that if I asked Rob and Alec Peters would laugh me straight out of the galaxy. So it goes.

I think RMB’s views on Trek were mostly solid in the mid-to-late 90s — really very solid, and often innovative. I’m not going to say he went all Dennis Miller wonky since then, but I do wonder at how he developed from what he was saying then to proclaiming the wonders of AXANAR recently, and it depressed Hell out of me. I’ve corresponded with two guys who have read AXANAR scripts who know their stuff, and each one was like, ‘uncinematic and routine fanfic.’

That’s definitely the consensus on the script from what I’ve read, though Burnett has claimed that wasn’t the final shooting draft (the critics in turn have disputed this). Who knows? I’d definitely appreciate the opportunity to judge for myself, and at this late date my question has to be why not? I very much doubt that even the truncated production of two fifteen minute segments allowed for under the settlement with CBS will ever see the light of day.

Correction: Axanar was planned to be a way for an arrogant con artist to fund his own studio by ripping people off and perpetrating copyright theft with a weakly written story.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Let’s buy the rights from CBS and Paramount so we can get Axanar off and running. Who’s with me on this!

Pass. What I saw was talky and dull.

I would, but my mansion is being renovated and the yacht is in drydock. So you’re on your own, soldier. Good luck!

“Let’s buy the rights from CBS and Paramount so we can get Axanar off and running. Who’s with me on this!”

Well, THAT was stupid.

Yes I don’t get this argument, Apparently people are willing to spend $20+ to see a Star Trek film in the theaters. But when you are asked to pay $1.50 an episode suddenly the world has gone mad. For me I would’ve happily spent 3 times the amount if I had to get new Star Trek. My god, we should just be happy there are people out there who wants to make more shows and actually put their money where their month is and give us one as big and cinematic as Discovery,

@Michael Hall

I think it more has to do with being asked to subscribe to ANOTHER streaming service. Many already get multiple services. And I think rightly are annoyed with being asked to add yet another for just ONE program. If CBS did this 4 years ago there probably would not be as much annoyance at it.

Kirok, then dont subscribe. No one is making you. No one cares. CBS is not obligated to give you content for free.

For some folks it’s not “on principle.” Some may simply not be able to afford it and don’t have TV at all.

For other folks there might be, just within their budget, a programming choice to make: Netflix [many choices with many favorites] or CBSAA, an infinite number of CBS re-runs plus two new shows, “Discovery” and “The Good Fight.”

I am blessed indeed to have friends who enjoy having company when she and her they watch “Discovery”! A public thanks to Lynn and Jase.

I was including DSC in the ‘volume of interesting content is nil’ mention, as in there was NOTHING worthwhile on CBS that I don’t already have (I have TOS on Blu and the feature films on Blu and TAS and most of DS9 on DVD already.)

Though by now I’m actually thinking there may be something there with DSC after all (I keep coming back to the ‘laws are for lackeys’ line I read about here, and that and all the potential subtext in that line is ALMOST enough to make me reconsider.)

But yeah, TWIN PEAKS and pretty much any other show is comparing cheese & chalk for me. There’s certainly no space science fiction show that I’d include anywhere near that pinnacle.

I’d have to agree. Not so much about TWIN PEAKS–I never really got the appeal of the original, sorry–but as compared to the best of modern prestige television in general. SF does not as yet have its GAME OF THRONES, let alone THE WIRE or DEADWOOD. But I trust they’ll keep trying.

Honestly, I very much doubt that Discovery will end up being that show. But I will say this: three episodes in, for all its flaws I think it’s been stronger out of the gate than any of the other series including DS9. Take that for what it’s worth.

The amount of content interesting to you may be low, other clearly disagree. For me since there are geographocal issues preventing me from recieving broadcast tv CBSAA is the only way I have to watch the majority of what cbs offers, very few of their shows are ever available on Netflix or Hulu. For example, only the original NCIS is available on Netflix, neither of the spin offs are, and even then its not current episodes. To me CBSAA is a huge bargain compared to purchasing dvds with the amount of cbs content I enjoy.

Kmart, AA is worth it to me as a Survivor fan alone! I been rewatching that show starting with season 1 a month ago and currently on season 5. Just 19 more to go lol. And why do Star Trek fans seem to forget EVERY show is on that site like the others? And they actually don’t play commercials on the older shows so even if you have the commercial option the Trek shows are ran commercial free.

In other words its different for different people. Maybe its not worth it to YOU but clearly others find some value in it as that site already had 2 million subscribers before Discovery showed up.

And people seem to forget Netflix didn’t have a SINGLE original show until just four years ago. Today it has over 50, but its been around for over a decade now. So yes, its great NOW but it didn’t start that way. Neither did Amazon or Hulu, It takes time to build up these libraries. And the difference between Netflix and CBS is that all their shows and films are THEIRS meaning they own 100% of whats on their site. Netflix owns about 30% which means the rest can go at anytime and does…often.

And sadly its only going to get harder for Netflix and Amazon as more studios like CBS and Disney decides to make their own sites and eventually take their programming from them. Luckily for Star Trek fans it sounds like its not leaving Netflix anytime soon though but one day it may. On AA those shows are there forever.

Does CBS have all the trek tv shows?

Uk Netflix has all trek shows, TNG movies and JJ Abrams films.

CBS All Access gives you all Star Trek shows BUT TNG looks terribly blurry on high def TVs (so I bought the blue ray set) and the original series does not contain the new effects – which made massive visual improvements introduced in 2004 when they remastered the series. So I bought a blue ray set of the original series also. I consider this to be a major failing of CBS’s Star Trek offerings.

I can’t figure out what they were thinking with the version they have put out for TNG. I picked some random episode and it looked horrible. I have been watching Trek on BBC – or streamed via NetFlix, and it looks way better – plus NetFlix is an app in my TV (LG) and in my DVRs (TiVo) – so it is much nicer than using the Apple TV to get CBS AA.

CBS AA needs more content. Specifically, they should have all the episodes of Big Bang Theory available. Right now they have just two online.
They also need to work to get the App more widespread – getting it in TiVo and in LG’s WebOS would make me much happier.

Wait, you mean CBS All Access should have more original programming? What a revelation. Quick, tell Les Moonves. He will so happy to learn this.

Give it time. Netflix did not launch with its entire catalog of film, TV shows and original content. HBO did not launch with its award winning dramas.


I signed up for Netflix for two reasons – the local video rental stores were gone and I needed my disks, plus they had started streaming LOOKING FOR MR GOODBAR in resolution ABOVE that of VHS, and it was widescreen. I dropped their disk part of things very reluctantly a couple years back, but it seemed that every movie I wanted to see on blu-ray they were only stocking with DVD, which pissed me off no end. Everything else has been gravy programming-wise, though I wish they’d put GOODBAR back in the rotation again!

Ye Gods, but I hate that movie!

You have lots of company. Leonard Maltin rated GOODBAR a BOMB (originally he gave TMP only 1-1/2 stars, then rerated up a star a decade later), and he did that only rarely. Stephen King’s wife vomited while running to the bathroom during the final scene, so I guess she wouldn’t give it thumbs up either.

For me, it is one of the most fascinating character studies I’ve ever seen, and it does the strobe light thing a million times better than ALIEN did two years later. There is exactly and only one thing I’d change about the whole flick, and that is when Keaton is reading THE GODFATHER when Richard Gere is chatting her up. That is the kind of post-modern moment that should be only happening in the TWIN PEAKS universe (and this third season, it kind of did, shallowly and darkly.)

’70s New York grit cinema was a real thing, I know, and I appreciate there was a time when downbeat films like GOODBAR could get produced and actually make respectable money, all sans capes, tights, and CGI. But it’s all a big bummer to me, what with the character’s relentless self-loathing and the endless digs at hookup culture that eventually just get tiresome. CARNAL KNOWLEDGE is also not a favorite, and for similar reasons.

@zoe — CBS doesn’t have the movies. And I suspect the reason they don’t have better copies of TNG is due to licensing restrictions. Netflix has a license to the HD streaming rights in the US, and CBS likely can’t compete with that, likewise with the TOS remasters — CBS set out to sell this packages widely when they were doing it as a means to pay for it, now that they’ve decided to launch their own streaming service, they are stuck with some unfortunate restrictions.

They do have the movies

All the movies and series Including the animated one plus all the new and most old shows from CBS.Going to watch some old shows I had forgotten about.

@William Perkins — they do have the movies!? When I click on Movies on my CBS App, I only found one — NEMESIS. How do you access them?

Maybe they don’t like the rest of the AA lineup.

Maybe they are already paying for cable, Netflix and Amazon Prime, like I am, and feel stupid for paying an additional $6-10 each month just to watch the one show.

I don’t feel stupid for paying for it. It is what it is. It’s worth it to me to pay $30-40 for the season. I’d drop at least $30 for a two hour movie in theaters, and that is a one view for 2 hours. I have already watched 6 hours of Discovery online (each one twice) – I won’t continue to pay for CBS AA over the long hiatuses between season halves or seasons – there’s no reason to.

All excellent points. People who do not understand someone else’s reluctance to embrace this either aren’t trying to or are incapable of seeing this from another point of view. I’m going to fork out the money for one month plus two days worth of Trek. But I’m irritated by the whole hung and will moan about it while doing it. I’m doing so because I’m a huge Trek guy. There are shows on HBO I’d love to see earlier than I do but won’t fork out the money for that service. Trek is the only show I’d do this for. Im just accepting there are some people who just cannot see that all people have their own subjective views on this and none are more valid than the other.

Kirok so you’re saying you’re cheap and dont understand but will piss and moan and annoy everyone just because…? Thats literally what you just said. Like man, its your right to whine and look foolish but dont expect smarter people to agree with your nonsense.

I don’t feel stupid for paying $6.40 (after tax) a month, or $1.60 an episode for the latest in what has always been my favorite television franchise. If that’s the only way CBS would launch a new series, I’m willing to pay my share. The stubborn, the freeloaders, the cheapskates and the pirates can thank me later.

Because when you pay for Netflix you get a galaxy of shows when you pay for CBSAA you are paying for one, one that was only put there to exploit the Brands well known & long exploited fanbase which it is also at the same time hoping to replace with its generic Non-Star Trek “Star Trek”show.

@Trekboi, you make assumptions that are false.

What exploited fanbase? Wanting you to pay for content is not exploiting you. Are you exploited when you buy food? No, you want it, buy it. You dont want it, dont buy it

The reality is the gripers are people who simply do not understand streaming. We’ve seen people here actually argue that the technology of streaming doesnt work. They argue that Netflix is “unwatchable”. They claim Disc rental props up Netflix.

Those people dont get it.

They will say “oh, All Access has two million subs so what a failure for Star Trek compared to viewership for Enterprise”. Because they dont understand.

There is a boat load of stuff to watch. You obviously just want to bitch without even checking It out

There is a bunch of stuff on the over the air CBS network too. How much of that is worth even a passing look? Precious little. CBSAA looks to have even less. At least from what I’ve read about it. We shall see when I finally get around to subscribing next week. Assuming they don’t pull another last minute stunt.

@Kirok – to be honest, I kind of wish I had waited until the first season was over so I could binge-watch it for the bargain price if $5.99.

Maybe they changed their corporate mind about this, but I remember reading months back that the plan was that this CBS service would NOT keep all the eps up at one time, usually only having four or five available, in order to PREVENT binge watching and force a longer subscription period for folks wanting to see the whole run of the season.

I thought this was discussed on trekmovie, but if I’m wrong, please advise. The ‘wait till the series is over, then binge for a month’ option would be palatable for me for this series, if it is indeed valid.

I thought that’s what I’d read here, too. It certainly makes sense from a business perspective. And again, I don’t need to be shilling for any soulless corporate behemoth, God knows–but if I ran CBS it would give me especial pleasure to imagine these cheap binge watchers suddenly discovering that their cleverness had bought them a half-season’s worth of serialized drama.

Last minutes stunt like wanting you to pay. You’re entire miserable argument for a year is that you WANT IT FOR FREE.

This is disingenuous. If CBS All Access had a lot of high-quality programming that people were willing to pay for, they wouldn’t have made such a huge increase in subscriber numbers in the past week. If CBS All Access had a lot of high-quality programming that *I* was willing to pay for, I would have already been a subscriber.

It should be apparently obvious that all of the people who are subscribing this week are there for the new Star Trek show, and I stand by my point that most of those people are going to be gone as soon as the season is over.

@Tammah — and you think nobody realizes that? Including CBS?

@Tammah Great take, spot on!

So I guess since I am currently a Netflix subscriber, I mjust have always been a Netflix subscriber. And since I was ALWAYS a Netflix subscriber since the moment they launched, it means they ALWAYS had great original content that I love.

Since none of those things are ture (except the part about me being a Netflix subscriber currently), your entire argument is moot.

You cant compare All Access which, while not being “new”, the committment by CBS to it is new, to Netflix today. Or HBO.

Netflix did not launch with 100 million subscribers. In fact, Netflix nearly failed multiple times. They were offered for sale to Blockbuster super cheap.

the principal is that if you live any where but the united states and Canada, you get discovery through Netflix. Why should I pay extra for cbs all access because I live in the united states. I already pay for Netflix, im not paying more for one tv show.

@It1701e — and what if you didn’t already subscribe to Netflix, as many people outside the US don’t? They’re basically signing up for a service for one show. What about people adding HBO to their cable subscription to get GOT? True, in both of those cases, they get other programs they may or may have an interest in. CBS offers much more than DISCOVERY, you just don’t happen to be interested in it.


re: the principal is…

that the name of this site is “TrekMOVIE” which means it is dedicated to advocating paying extra for viewing of STAR TREK whether or not you subscribe to Netflix. It strikes me as extremely odd that people choose this venue to take a position that they aren’t going to pay more money in addition to their monthly Netflix subscription to view a STAR TREK on its release date.

Really? So how exactly have you been seeing STAR TREK for free when it was released to the movie theaters? How has not paying for the movies worked out for you? Is there a special side door at these exhibitions where you show proof of you Netflix subscription and they escort you into the theater and your reserved free seat?

Do you honestly expect us to believe that before Netflix came along you absolutely never ever succumbed and foolishly paid [Via home video rentals or purchase of Trek on home viewing media such as VHS, VCD, DVD, HD DVD, Blu-ray, etc. for an advertiser paid for STAR TREK episode that you had originally seen at no cost to you?

to be honest this pushed me to the point of unsubscribing to CBS All Access. I’ll wait until it comes out on iTunes or something. CBS has really alienated me with the feelings of their greasy, greedy tentacles in my wallet.

In fact, I’m really curious why no one is discussing the wave of cancellations CBS is guaranteed to get.

@Tammah — because it isn’t going to happen unless the show is bad. Welcome to the 21st century streaming entertainment model.

@Curious Cadet – Do you think that people who signed up for CBS All Access solely for ST:D are going to let those subscriptions go on for months and months until season two comes out?

Plenty more to watch on there

I intend to, so long as the show is good. I’m no great fan of late-stage capitalism, but that’s the way the game is played in this country. Again, if you like Discovery–an expensive show by any standard–you have to support the business model that makes its production possible. If not, fine–but don’t whine when Moonves pulls the plug and you can wait for some Trek novelist to tell you what finally became of Burnham and Co.

A little back of the envelope math here – I figure five months for this season, another ten months in 2018, then another five months for season two – that comes out to 20 months at 5.99 – that’s $119.80 for two seasons of a show assuming a subscriber doesn’t cancel as soon as the show is over. I honestly don’t get why someone would pay for content they are not watching.

For comparison, the 7th season of Game of Thrones can be found as low as 317.90 for DVD or 34.00 for digital copies.

I honestly don’t get why $119.80 would be such a big deal to a person of average means. Certainly, it’s not for me to tell you how to spend your money. But please, just don’t clutter-up these threads whining about it. By all means don’t watch the show, and move on.

Its all about habit and these are the consumers that big companies love. If there was a new Trek film every month, all these complainers would gladly buy tickets, drinks and popcorn while going to a theatre at a set time and place. But $6 a month to get a new service on TV? Heck no. I’d rather keep paying for cable and get the show for “Free”.

Tammah no one expects most Trek fans to keep All Access when there is no Trek. Neither does CBS. Stop using fake facts to push a false narrative.

Let CBS worry about All Access. Why does it matter to you?

The cost of All Access does not bother me, nor the idea of paying to watch the show. I watched the first part on CBS and there was just nothing there to make me care to watch any more.

Fair enough. Of course, the show could get better by your standards, or you could come to like it as-is. But I have a sense over the years of what in Trek appeals to you, so it’s probably just as well you hand onto your money. :-)

@Tammah — of course not. And neither does CBS.

I think the cancellations, after Season 1 has ended, will convince CBS to launch a second new Star Trek series. I just hope it isn’t “Khan on Ceti Alpha V”.

Not guaranteed oh seer of the future…not

I hope not, frankly. Trek got way overexposed in the Nineties and early Aughts, and I hope CBS has taken that lesson to heart.

Common sense. They had a bazillion people sign up to watch one TV show – it is not even remotely believable that most people are going to continue their subscriptions for so much as a minute after they watch the last episode.

@Tammah — again, you think this is news to CBS? What’s your point?

I almost sort of do think it might be news to them. I’m just not sure what the point of building up numbers in one quarter knowing they are going to plummet in the next is supposed to serve. I’m not thinking about this issue as a Star Trek fan, except that the business decisions they make impact a show I care a lot about.

If you care about the show then you’ll support it with your subscription dollars to keep it around (unless you just can’t afford it, which is another matter entirely). It’s really not that complicated.

CBS and Showtime are all the same company so far as I know, so I would guess this was based in part on SHOWTIME’s airing of TWIN PEAKS. SHOWTIME has said they knew that they weren’t going to keep many new viewers past the 18 new hours that Lynch made, but that it was still increasing their exposure to new viewers (plus even though the time of year wasn’t exactly Emmy friendly, they may think that TP will score a few noms next year too.)

And SHOWTIME was good with all this, and for a show that isn’t planned to even have a second season, and wasn’t pretty much subsidized up front like netflix did with DSC.

@Tammah – you think CBS thinks that everyone who signs up for Discovery is going to stay?

You think churn will be exclusive to All Access?

Why is Netflix spending billions on new original content? Why did HBO strategically launch series’ throughout the year?

Because OF COURSE people unsubscribe.

In fact, its a testament to Discovery is people DO unsubscribe. If a million people sign up and keep the service after Trek is over, they obviously dont need Discovery.

If a million people sign up and 900,000 unsubscribe thats a net gain of 100,000. Next season if one million sign up and 900,000 unsub, thats another 100,000 and so on and so forth.

My numbers are just example.

Look into streaming. Lots of info out there. WWE releases tons of numbers that show this exact thing.

Dont worry about Churn. Let CBS worry about it.

Why do you feel they are greedy? Because they want you to pay a reasonable price to watch a program? You dont have to watch. I dont have to buy a burger for lunch if I feel the price isnt worth it. if I do, I dont criticize the restaraunt for expecting me to pay for it.

Next time on wagon train…. to the stars!! Warp speed!

Season 2 is closer to reality every day.

200%? To generate enough revenue they will need to pay for a second season better had some zeros to that..

@FredM — The first season has long since been bought and paid for. The second season will likely have just as much pre-sales before CBSAA subscriptions even enter the mix.

Netflix international covers all production costs. CBS essentially gets the show for “free” as they are the rights holders. It matters more how it performs on Netflix than with CBS. If you are going to rag on something and try and be snarky, please at least be informed. :)

Netflix, as Les Moonves explained, paid a sizable fee for the show. That deal isn’t paying for the overall production of the show but it does offset overall production costs as such deals often do.

He said this to Variety in September last year ..
“I go to bed at night a lot happier knowing that ‘Star Trek’ is 100 percent paid for before it goes on our All Access service,” Moonves said.”

And whats amazing about that is Star Trek is so valuable, not just today but for the next X amount of years. They are still making money of TOS 50 years later.

So Discovery being “free” for CBS right now…man, its pure profit for the next 50 years.

Star Trek never loses money. It could take years but eventually it turns a profit.

Yes, that’s what he said. It is 100% paid for, that doesn’t mean Netflix paid 100% of the production costs. Also expect a bit of spin from the head of a network.

A 200% increase on a very small base of subscribers is not enough to pay for discovery. Do the math, they only had 46K new sign ups last Sunday and that wont pay for Discovery which cost $8MM per episode. The only saving grace is that Netflix actually paid for the Discovery production cost with the fees CBS charged them to carry DSC overseas. Les Monnvies bragged about this during a investor call. If Netflix wont continue to pay those fees I don’t think there will be a season 2. CBS needs millions of new subscribers to pay for DSC.

Not true Ray. CBS DIDN’T just have 46K sign ups last week. That was just the people who downloaded the app for the first time off of Android and Apple, but doesn’t include downloading it off of stuff like Roku or just watching it off a computer.

For example I don’t have the AA app. I only watch it from my computer going through the site that way and I’ve had AA for 6 months now. So no the actual number of subscriptions are most likely WAY higher, they only gave us the numbers if you downloaded by phone.,

CBS looks at the total number of subscribers exclusive of platform.

I didn’t download it on Apple TV either, the App was already there. (I did download it on PS4)

46K downloads is way low for a show with a large following like ST. When Luke Cage premiered on Netflix, it dam near shut down the service. LOL. No sense making a show if no one is watching

Ray did you seriously missed ALL the posts explaining this??? A. Not everyone had to download the app as its pre-loaded on other devices. And as said not everyone watched it through the app like me. I don’t have the app I just watch it through the website on my computer. My god stop saying ‘no one is watching’ when you are discounting all the other ways you can now watch AA.

@Tiger2, where in my comments did I say no one is watching? But with over 6B people on the planet there was only 46K downloads. I have Amazon Fire Stick, Roku and Apple TV I had to download AA on each. Not to mention my IPAD. The App does not come pre-loaded, I think CBS AA had only 4MM subscribers prior to DSC, they will need a great deal more to make AA relevant. Don’t forget it was Les Moonvies that canceled Enterprise, so he’s on record as canceling Trek.

“No sense making a show if no one is watching.”

That sort of implies you think no one is watching.

And you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. For starters, All Access is ONLY in America man. So 6 billion people don’t have access to it, only people who live in America does.

Even if you had to preload it, you still discounting the fact you DON’T have to have the app to watch the show, which I have said for the third time now I have had it for months, I have not downloaded the app. Sure if that was the ONLY way that would be a small number. But its not.

And CBS said they want 8 million subscribers by 2020. They are at 4 million now and that was before Discovery started. More shows will pop up. More content will be added. I think getting 8 million is not the end of the world if you already have half that before you even start introducing a lot of shows like Discovery. But if it doesn’t reach 8 million by 2020, OK, you were right. ;)

A few people who have no idea how streaming works are trying to twist facts they got wrong into a false narrative of doom & gloom. They must all own stock in CBS!

@Tiger2, ok out of 330M Americans only 46K downloads, BAD.

@Ray — Why do you intentionally misrepresent the facts? 46K downloads from iOS and Android on ONE SUNDAY. The previous two Sundays, they had 23K downloads each. That doesn’t include every day, of the week between then and now, nor the rest of the year.

@Ray – not only are you purposely obtuse with regards to the facts, you actually believe that every man, woman & child in America represents a potential All Access customer? lol

Actually that makes sense as my 17 month old niece expressed a desire to have her own All Access account if we lived in the US. Both of my parents in their 70’s would have had separate individual accounts too. You could be on to something…

How do you that is “way low”? What are you basing that one?

You do know that Netflix approached CBS about creating a Trek series, right? So you think no one is watching Discovery on Netflix?

There’s a whole world outside of CBS and the US who’ve already paid for ST:D, so the mathS

@Ray – you missing the point. CBS knows they would get far more viewers for Star Trek on Cable than All Access. So you’re assuming CBS wants the MOST viewers and is just stupid.

They want to drive growth in All Access. Which means taking a property like Star Trek which has a loyal following, to drive subs to All Access. In effect, making Discovery a “loss leader” to grow the service. Big picture vs small picture.

Why would anyone assume Netflix would pull out now?

I never said Netflix wont pay those fees, I simply posed it as a possibility, it will always come down to the bottom line. If DSC cant drive enough incremental sustainable subscribers DSC wont make sense to continue. 46K new sign ups is not enough and that was on opening night, scary. CBS all Acess makes sense when you only stream already released shows. Those shows have been paid for allready, if you can drive incremental revenue from allready existing shows like Big Bang theory thats a bonus. But when you spend 8MM per episode on new content that changes things. New subscriptions have to drive revenue on both All Acess nd Netflix. If they don’t bye bye DSC. Netflix and Amazon have a sustainable model because they license other content in addition to original content. CBS just relies on their past library we will see how sustainable that is. Just the facts.

@Ray — no, those are not the facts. CBS did not release new signup numbers. The 46K number you are quoting are for new app downloads from the Apple App Store and Google Play for one Sunday. A reported 64% increase over the two previous Sundays. So that suggests 23,000 downloads per previous Sunday, not counting all the days in between, and the weeks and months leading up to the launch. I personally downloaded the CBSAA app back when the first trailer was released. And I signed up on Saturday, the day before.

The facts as reported by CBS are that DISC broke a new record for subscriber sign-ups in a single day, eclipsing the previous record held by the 2017 Grammy Awards. CBS also announced that All Access has had the best week and month ever for sign-ups due to DISC. All of that is mutually exclusive from App downloads.

Earlier in the year, CBSAA launched the spinoff of THE GOOD WIFE: THE GOOD FIGHT. More downloads onto devices well before DISC, which may not necessarily attract the same audience, but would already make the service available in the same family household. And anyone getting ready for DISC, who previously had no experience with CBSAA in their household, even just to check out the service; would have downloaded the app well before the premiere Sunday.

You’re trying to make a case without any idea what the actual numbers are, and that’s just completely misguided.

Ray once again you seem either kind of slow or have horrible reading comprehension. This has been stated multiple times now, that is not all the sign ups and as been pointed out that was just the sign up from ONE day. Yes, people can still sign up lol.

AA is not going anywhere for years as they have made it clear they are trying to get to 8 million in three years. They are already half way there and Discovery has just started.

And Netflix is billions in the hole. Its not a ‘sustainable model’ by a long shot because the problem is its spending a ridiculous amount of money on shows while also spending a lot of money to license other shows LIKE Star Trek Discovery for example. But they feel it will pay off some day so keep spending. CBS just relies on its library but they aren’t spending hundreds of dollars on licenses that Netflix and Amazon spends to get other shows and films, not including all the money on their original productions. I have no idea how Amazon is doing but my guess probably in the same situation as Netflix but considering the streaming site is just a minor investment for Amazon’s huge empire they probably can afford to lose money off of it for awhile.

I won’t take to name calling like you, I’m not slow, but I am enjoying this discussion. Perhaps I’m doing a poor job of articulating my point. I’m saying CBS strategy is not sustainable in the long haul. 8mm subscribers is not enough. As they add AA original content their cost will go up dramatically like Netflix’s. They can’t rely on Netflix to cover the production cost of every show they create for AA. As you know it cost several millions to produce high quality TV shows. To do that they will need much more than the 8mm subscriptions they are shooting for in the short term. 8mm subscriptions is about a 500mm in full year rev. If they had to cover DISC by themselves that would be $120mm alone and that’s without promotional cost. Not sustainable, I’m sure the good fight isn’t cheap to produce either. Fox and other networks offer their streaming platform for free because they know the model isn’t sustainable unless you are a stream only platform that licenses and produces a good amount of original content like Netflix and Amazon. Last I heard Netflix had 100mm subscriptions. Bottom line if Netflix pulls out bye bye DISCOVERY.

Discovery isnt solely funded by Netflix. CBS has funds too. They also get paid by Bell Canada. if Netflix wasnt there, someone else would be.

Kudos to CBS for making a great deal with Netflix. Im going to assume they had a more complicated contract then “let us know when you want to stop sending us money”.

@Ray – wrong. Original content drives subscriber growth. This has been shown in many different streaming platforms. Archival content (content libraries) do not deliver the same level of growth as original content.

This is why Netflix is spending insane money to develop their own original programming. Its why HBO did too (and continues to). Its why CBS is slowly spending money on developing original content even some of which dont sound that great. Because original content is a driver of subs more than old content is.

CBS actually was not relying on their library. Les even mentioned this as an issue in one interview where he said All Access didnt have as many streaming versions as the Network and he wanted to change that (licensing issues I think played a part).

CBS promotes its library because thats basically all they have to plug. Its gravy. If you’re on the fence about subbing for The Good Fight, you see a show you like and decide you’ll sub for both.

But generally original content is the driver, not the library.

@TUP we argree on that, my point is that as they create more content specific to AA the cost to do business will also go up. I don’t think the rate of subscriptions will go up at a rate good enough to cover the production cost of the original content. This is a problem because most of their shows are on free TV. If AA was a big deal why didn’t they put the Big Bang theories spinoff Young Sheldon on AA. Because AA wont be able to cover the cost, thank god for Netflix.

@Ray — AND!?

@Ray – Netflix is going into huge debt to create original programming. You dont create one show, make money, then use that money to pay for future shows. It would take forever. CBS surely has a content budget for All Access and the specific shows themselves are not being relied upon to return that investment.

This isnt cable.

As for Young Sheldon. Well, CBS is still obligated to its shareholders so it cant just dump all new programming onto All Access and abandon the network.

Netflix ONLY has their streaming service (and a Disc rental business which is mostly insignificant and slated to be closed up at some point). So they dont have to balance their obligations to streaming AND Network.

Why? Netflix covered the cost already?

Investment in original programming to support the streaming platform, which at the moment is an important strategic initiative for CBS, does not require the specific programs to return their cost. Star Trek could be a loss leader for CBS as long as it shows growth for All Access.

Surely there will be cancellations once Star Trek is over. They know this. Its part of a strategic plan to grow the platform

If Netflix covers $8 million per episode and has exclusive rights in nearly 200 countries, given how much they spend on content, I’d suspect that’s a drop in the bucket for them. Unless viewership is brutal on Netflix, surely they will want to continue. And given the ratings on CBS, in Canada and reported All Access interest, one can assume Netflix viewership is also very good.

Investing in Star Trek is a far lower risk for Netflix. Its a property they wanted because they know how popular it is. part of the strategy in making a deal with CBS was retaining rights to air the other Star Trek properties on their service. originally, CBS was going to pull them all to be exclusive to All Access.

No. Later seasons of a show are much cheaper than the first season. They don’t have to design and build new sets, props, costumes, do new casting, etc.

you have to pay the returning cast more, on an escalating year by year basis (and a LOT more if renegotiation on a breakout takes place), plus pretty much everything else costs more too. I remember crunching numbers on TNG a long while back and realizing that with VFX for their first season were supposedly averaging 75 to 80 THOUSAND per ep, and that was out of a 1.2 mil budget. That’s what, 7 percent of the whole show! Where was the rest of the money going! Infrastructure? The VFX on TOS were a much bigger % of the budget, and that was counting in the HUGE surcharges from the studio.

It’s rare when any kind of TV or film series can hold a line on budget over a period of time (the Bond films did it for most of the 80s when MGM got involved, and that is when they went in the crapper for a lot of people.)

Aren’t most cast members signed up with multi-year contract options in the first place? That’s why none of the modern Treks went past seven years (other studios/networks seem to be five years, such as everything on SyFy), Paramount would have had to renegotiate contracts at much higher salaries beyond Season 7. Look at the number of actors who leave their shows after that option period has expired (such as Ziva on NCIS or Daniel Jackson on SG-1) and when they do renegotiate, it is often for fewer episodes per season (i.e., Psych).

they don’t get paid the same every year, there are built in increases for every cast member on BermanTrek for the six-year duration, that was pretty common knowledge.

@kmart — and they tried to cheat the cast of DS9 on overtime — the cast had an uprising and won! ;-)

Yes, but you understand that TOS’ budget was in fact cut after the first season, and for all that you recently mentioned your preference for the second. This, in spite of the leads (especially Nimoy) receiving pretty substantial raises. And seriously, I can’t say the look of the show suffered much aside from the absence of Albert Whitlock’s wonderful matte work. So I think there is something to Thorny’s observation about reduced second-year costs on a show of this type.

Even though there are no ratings from CBSAA, or Netflix, there are ratings for Canada, no? Do we know where else CBS is selling the show outside of Netflix and Canadian cable TV? Netflix doesn’t cover the world, so either CBS is not distributing it outside of those territories or they are making deals with other networks or streaming services which could be tracked.

Netflix is in 188 countries, aside from US and Canada. That’s pretty much it — the world.

@Salvador — thanks for pointing that out. I hadn’t really been paying attention, but a quick trip over to Wikipedia confirmed my misunderstanding, and indicates 190 countries — including a new deal to piggyback on a streaming service in China. So the question remains — is the Space channel reporting ratings?

As I understand it, they announced ‘record ratings’ but didn’t really say much beyond that.

Discovery is in every major country except China thanks to Netflix. Only the smallest most hostile countries doesn’t have Netflix at this point. And those places no one bothers to track ratings because they are usually too small or poor.

CBS/Paramount/Viacom will not lose money on Star Trek … even a bomb like Nemesis has long term library value. CBS is playing the long game.
I have a quote from Les Moonves above confirming Netflix paid for the whole show. The potential growth of CSSAA is a no risk venture then.
There will be a DVD and Blu-Ray release around a year from now, or just before season 2 comes out.
There is a probably a window beyond which it exclusive deal with Netflix will lapse and they can offer it in syndication or sell it at a high cost as a cable exclusive.

The question is if CBSAA flops, does Star Trek fail. Read this for a Variety article in August …
Moonves expects “Discovery” to be a big driver of subscribers , though he declines to name an exact figure.
“Look, this was a big call for us,” he says of placing “Discovery” on All Access. He notes that both the CBS network and Showtime wanted the series, as did Amazon and Netflix, which will stream it internationally. (With the Netflix deal, the number of new All Access subscriptions “Discovery” is expected to generate and other factors, CBS considers the series paid for.)

On top of that the CW head said a few years back if there is a new Star Trek series going he would like it on his network.

I would not be a surprise if there is a clause in Netflix’s contract that if CBSAA fails, they get the USA rights and can keep commissioning the series.

Bottom line I do not think future Star Trek series is dependent on the success of CBSAA. It is too valuable a property for CBS/Paramount not to make money on.

I find it interesting they can thank Lucille Ball, and Paramount’s acquisition of her studio for two of their biggest franchises .. Star Trek and Mission Impossible.

Without actual ratings (or number of views), the success or failure of Discovery really cannot be measuered by subscriber numbers alone. Continuing the subscription may have nothing to do with the show, but the quality of the service, the content in general and many other factors. I’m not saying that linear TV ratings were a good indicator either, but at least then the studio could say that a show was successful because of the show. In this case, there’s no such benchmark (Funny enough, one of the best indicators of how well a show does is by looking at the number of illegal downloads).
I’m just glad I get it on Netflix and don’t have to care about CBS’S little experiment. The whole selling point of streaming services is the fact that I have one subscription (okay, two, counting Amazon) and that’s it. If I would have to pay for every channel individually, I would stick with my DVDs and Blurays. Over at MGM, they try to set up a subscription service for Stargate, a franchise that has considerable less pull than Star Trek. Let’s see how that will turn out…

But that also goes to show that the “benchmark” of success as you put it is an entirely different animal for streaming compared to broadcast. And yeah I recently heard about this Stargate MGM business, another prequel, to boot, but 10 minute long “webisodes”…like wtf? What’s that going to accomplish?

Not really sure about that Stargate thing. They cannot seriously be thinking about testing audience interest in a new show by releasing something that other shows (BSG comes to mind) did as a marketing thing inbetween seasons. Either they commit themselves to a new show or they don’t. After Emmerich’s reboot is dead and buried, there’s not really any obstacle. But I fear that they simply have no one at the helm who’s behind such a project?

As for Trek, I suppose the show is watched by less people in the US than any other Trek show to date, simply for availablity barriers. Netflix has the content, linear TV has casual viewers to bolster ad sales, CBSAA has… well, not really anything. They could not expect 10-15 million people who saw the premiere to jump to CBSAA, no matter how good it is. It’s like letting the beatles do a concert in the middle of the Sahara. It may be an awesome gig, but not that many people would show up regardless. I guess once CBSAA got enough traction, they might consider a compromise, like sub-licensing it to Netflix US after some months or putting it on TV. Either that or that Netflix licensing deal really is paying all the bills regardless of their platform success, which would be ironic.

That’s my guess. CBS-AA if you want to see it now–quite a few nerds and even some casual viewers will, if it’s good–and Netflix if you don’t mind waiting a year. Depending on your level of interest, everyone wins.

My guess is Discovery doesn’t nearly have the numbers TNG and DS9 did in their heyday and being in syndication. But its probably much higher than Enterprise AFTER its premiere episode and for a streaming site is a lot like basic cable. Only a few million is needed for it be considered a success because they don’t just go by traditional advertisment alone.

And either way Discovery is in the sweet spot because no matter WHAT its going to be the most watched thing on AA for quite awhile just like Voyager was the biggest thing on UPN for years until wrestling showed up on that network. So as long as AA stick around it should be around easily.

Beatles In the Sahara would be a sold out show

You should care about the success of that little experiment if you like it and want it to continue.

That is my worry; paying for multiple services in the end. I’m an old guy and watched Star Trek since it came out in 1966, when TV was much simpler. I got Netflix and a Roku box with a couple of free services on it that I sometimes watch, and a DVR and the 3 remotes I use to work it all (not interested in figuring out how to combine into one remote)…and I’m getting off the “treadmill” there.I’ll get DVDs next year of season #1. I’d like to binge-watch it anyway. I sometimes miss those old antenna days.

And there you–proof that all those people who said they were boycotting the show were talking out their butts.

The ratio of Internet Trolls is way out of balance compared to views of the general public.

Amen! It has always been thus when it comes to Star Trek, but the complaining by the ‘resistant to change’ crowd rose to a level I hadn’t seen with Trek since TNG was announced back in the BBS and CompuServe days. And TNG was Roddenberry himself. Discovery got all that vitriol, plus the “their spitting on Roddenberry’s grave!” contingent.

A 200% increase would mean roughly 3 million plus subscribers to CBS All Access which probably translates to about 2 million viewers per episode. Assuming those numbers hold you’re looking at ratings roughly on par with season 4 of Enterprise with the potential to grow if positive word of mouth encourages more people to sign up. The irony, of course, is that a new show like this would typically expand it’s audience after being sampled on Netflix before the start of a new season. In the U.S. Netflix subscribers will never be exposed to Discovery.

@Denny C,

Marc DeBevoise, president of CBS Interactive was asked in an interview with Decider that was published yesterday if CBS AA is on track to add 1 million new subscribers in 2017. He gave the same answer that all CBS upper management gives when asked similar question; basically conflating Showtime figures with CBS AA.

“What we have said before is that Showtime and CBS All Access are on track to hit 4 million combined subscribers by the end of this year”

The trades believe that Showtime has the larger number of subscribers.

I would say 3/4 of that is for Showtime since they offer everything from “The Affair” to “Ray Donovan” and most recently “Twin Peaks”.

@Denny C, Ill add that it was Les Moonvies that canceled Enterprise, so hes on record as canceling Trek, hes capable.

He could cancel Discovery but that seems unlikely. Way too much invested in it to pull the plug after one season.

The difference being Enterprise was no longer the biggest show on UPN, wrestling and the sitcoms were, both much cheaper to produced. In AA case, Discovery IS the biggest thing on that site by a mile. They cancel that, what exactly would currently take its place?

“CBS was able to almost double the mobile subscription revenue for its CBS All Access service”

That is just about $60,000 according to Variety! Nothing to get too excited about!

Some people, who tried cancelling before the one week free trial was over, were giving an option to get an extra one free month. So a lot of subscribers aren’t even paying for the service yet.

CBS has a habit of releasing vague figures without any context. After the premiere CBS issued a statement saying that Discovery broke a new record for CBS All Access without revealing the actual numbers, and then compared it to a previous record by 2017 Grammy Awards which they haven’t revealed as well!

The real measure of success is when they renew the show. Everything else, vague figures included, is just PR.

*rolling my eyes*

And renew the show they will.

Mr Glass Half Empty strikes again. Amazing how many people own stock in CBS lol


“CBS has a habit of releasing vague figures without any context.”

I can believe that. I was amazingly irritated when I went to sign up last week only to find out there was no free week as has been reported everywhere. That is, no free week if you want the commercial free version. Only two days.

At the end of the day what CBS says about AA really cannot be trusted as it cannot be verified. Evertying said here about how the show is doing, how AA is faring or any other behind the scenes stuff is 100% speculation. Which, albeit, is fun. But still guesswork every way you cut it.

@Kirok — guess what — that’s true of every streaming service, and most companies. Trying to make CBS some kind of nefarious corporation is ridiculous when its the standard business model for similar services, and secrecy is now the name of the game for the highest valued companies in the world.

@Curious Cadet

So you are saying that it is standard for steaming companies to mislead at best lie at worst about their promotions. That doesn’t sound like a good business practice and since my one other experience with this the promotion was exactly as advertised I would say such behavior is likely uncommon. Unless the largest streamer at the time I signed up was one of the rare exceptions.

It’s more likely CBS were just being misleading on purpose. Thus far, the way CBS has been handling this whole thing has been piss poor. At this point I would not be surprised to find out what was written about the quality of their tech was spot on. I had been willing to take it with many grains of salt. Now I’m not so sure. I’ll find out for myself next week. Assuming they don’t pull another fast one.


There is nothing standard about what they are doing.

Netflix = All plans offer 1 month free trial, no commercials.

Amazon = 1 month free trial, no commercials.

Hulu = Basic plan with commercials offers 1 month free trial / Premium plan with no commercials offers 1 month free trial.

CraveTV (in Canada)= 1 month free trial, no commercials.

There is no other major streaming service that offer just 1 week with commercials and 2 days without commercials.

As for secrecy, most streaming services don’t release ratings for their shows. However, unlike CBS AA they do release the number of subscribers.


I agree that there is nothing standard about CBS’s handling of this. That has been obvious for nearly the last year. It was Cadet who was trying to tell me that blatanly misleading the customer was “standard” practice for streaming companies. The one other account I had provided a free month and no commercials. And followed through.

It is obvious that cbs would have no desire to offer a free month when they pretty much know that most folks would cancel after watching the first half of their Discovery airings. I’m also convinced the main reason they are releasing the show weekly WITH a mid season break (like CBS’s over the air network does) is because they know most would not pay for their service annually. So they stretch out Trek as long as they think they can get away that will keep the cancellations to a minimum. It’s really feeling like they are their own worst enemy in this.

@Kirok — you claim they are blatantly misleading, but in reality it’s your expectations and assumptions that are incorrect, so you blame others. And you’ve taken my words out of context to service your agenda. In fact, I’m done addressing your blatant misconceptions and unrealistic expectations.

@Cadet – same guy that did the same things under his old “name”.

@Curious Cadet

Oh I’m sorry. You are right. When CBS advertises everywhere to “try it for one week free” but that week turns out to be two days…. That’s not misleading at all. It’s my fault for expecting 7 free days when they said a week. What was I thinking? I had forgotten that weeks are now only two days long.

Thank you for correcting me.

CBS is under ZERO obligation to GIVE you content for free. They dont have to offer a FREE SECOND of content if they dont want to.

The fact people like you openly state that you will take the freebie and binge the series and cancel, thus paying NOTHING for the content is a great reason NOT to give it away at all. lol

How has CBS been misleading? Because they dont tell YOU their subscription numbers? Why does it matter to you? You have a lot of excuses to avoid watching including how you claim streaming as a technology isnt very good and that Netflix doesnt work most of the time. You even claimed disc rental makes up most of Netflix’ money. Which is assinine.

You clearly dont know much about this topic.

You havent subscribed but you’re here every day accusing CBS of nefarious acts. If you dont want to pay, dont. Maybe you’re beloved Netflix Disc Rental program will offer Discovery for rental next year.

Not everyone can see Netflix I have Hughes net. I cannot download or stream anything to do with tv or video. I would love to see the show

I wonder if that number of episodes coincides with all those trial extensions they keep giving people who try to cancel after the free trial.

Glad the break is only a couple months. I don’t care how they split it, as long as I don’t have to wait too long for my next fix.

Wow amazing news. I give it about two weeks before they renew it for season 2!

I mean c’mon people, what did you THINK was going to happen? The first Star Trek show on in over a decade. They interest was going to be big no matter what. The question is how long can that interest stay but my guess is it won’t have any problems getting a few seasons minimum, if not 7 years like TNG, DS9 and Voyager did.

I would say renewal is pretty much a given. The question is whether they’ll renew for another 16 or reduce the number of episodes for season 2.

Good question. I think THAT will actually be telling on just how well Discovery is really doing overall, how many episodes we get and the budget for those episodes. Everyone (the producers and actors) are already talking about season 2 like its a foregone conclusion at this point. Sure something can happen where they decide against it but the upswing is just to big at the moment, the biggest simply being there is nothing else on AA that attracts people like this show will. I mean that was the point of all the promotion and hype over this show, they knew this was going to be the big draw and maybe the only big draw for awhile (although I’m guessing The Good Fight is really popular too getting picked up after four episodes but it doesn’t have the global pull like Star Trek).

But yes if it does get renewed but didn’t bring in as many subscribers as CBS expected then we may see a shortage of episodes like from 15 to 12 or smaller budgets. But even then the show would have to drop quite a bit to see any significant changes. I mean DS0, Voyager and Enterprise all had ratings drops past their first seasons but looking at their budgets and production values in later seasons you wouldn’t notice that much. Enterprise was the only show to have fewer episodes and that wasn’t until season 4. And even then they still had 22 episodes IIRC instead the 25 the previous seasons did.

I don’t think it’s a “given” at this point. I think renewal is likely, but that has to be judged against more than three episodes. We all thought Trek 4 was a given when JJ announced it before Beyond was even released. Even when the reviews for Beyond were positive and everything looked great and the 50th was right around the corner, and even though it was one of Paramount’s biggest movies, we still haven’t confirmed anything. So take nothing for granted. DSC is an expensive production and will need to be considered accordingly.

Again, if Discovery is your NUMBER ONE show on your fledgling site then I would be hard pressed what could they replace it with that will get them the same results at the moment? Thats what I mean. Sure its not automatic but its just common sense. They need AA to succeed and currently Discovery is their biggest attraction to that site. Now that can obviously go down (and most likely will) but for now its probably really the only big draw. If you get rid of that then you lose a lot of your subscribers, especially when nothing else is big enough on there to keep them.

This isn’t like Star Trek 4 because Star Trek was NEVER Paramount’s biggest franchise, far from it. And Beyond BOMBED! It wasn’t Paramount’s ‘biggest films’ far from it. It was only the biggest that year for them because ALL their movies bombed lol. And it was the most costliest too. Thats not exactly the same thing. So thats apples and oranges, especially since we know Discovery’s premiere was actually a big hit.

I’m thinking he same thing. If it is the only thing driving subscribers they have no choice but to keep it going if they intend to keep the service running. Just as UPN HAD to keep Voyager going no matter what the numbers were. For the first few years it was their most watched show even with the dismal numbers it had.

And that consideration may be fewer episodes and / or a smaller budget.

Living in Europe, I had to sign up with Netflix to watch, something I would have NEVER done as an avid Blu-Ray collector, but for Star Trek, I’d do anything. Paying an additional 10€ after 12 years of abstinence isn’t too much to ask for. But no, I won’t watch any other stuff on Netflix before they are released on BD, because if I started doing that, I would eventually devaluate my Blu-Ray collection…

So you won’t watch Deep Space Nine or Voyager?

Why not wait for ST:DIS to come to Blu-ray then? What is the rush to watch it the day it’s released online?

Because I want to see it now, not in eight months or a year. Deferring gratification is fine with some things, and not with others, for just about everyone.

The problem in today’s world people are worried about getting spoiled when you are on the internet 24/7 and you get news feeds all over the place. Even when I DON’T come to Trek sites, I still get news showing up on my phone about it. And I think Discovery is a show where a lot of crazy twists will happen so for the hardcore they probably want to see it first hand and not worried about finding out second hand.

Even with a 200% increase in subscribers, the viewership is quite a step down from the first hour’s airing on CBS.
Back in February of this year, CBS was “approaching” 1.5MM subscribers to the CBSAA platform, according to Les Moonves. Let’s say that Moonves wasn’t BS-ing when he claimed that figure, so we’ll estimate 1.4MM subs. If it has increased by 200% in recent weeks, that’s an increase to 4.2MM subs. So, to compare:

CBS Hour 1
An estimated 15MM viewers once Live + 7 viewing is included.

CBSAA Hours 2 and 3
A maximum of 4.2MM viewers (since we can’t assume that all CBSAA subscribers are Trek fans)

That’s quite the drop. However, if you assume that 2.8MM subs only sign up for the minimum amount required to watch the entire first season, that’s 2.8MM subs x $5.99 x 5 months. Not everyone will immediately cancel afterwards, of course, but likely, many will. Still, that’s $50.3MM in raw revenue, which is a decent chunk of change. And that doesn’t count people who will sign up for just one month to stream the entire series after it concludes.

So, while CBSAA may have a much smaller viewership, CBS is making money outside of anything they get from Netflix and additional advertising revenue from the commercial breaks. And if they amortize the cost of sets and FX over the life of the series, it becomes a better investment. As much as many on here have decried CBS’ decision, it looks like they made a financially lucrative one.


Argh! Bad math! That total would actually be $83.9MM in total revenue from 5 months of subscriptions. That’s even a bigger pile of cash. I think CBS will be doing fine and unless streaming viewership drops precipitously and people cancel their subs early, a second season will be a given.


CBS was pretty consistent in saying they hope to grow All Access to 4 million subs eventually. So they certainly knew that they could not convert 15 million viewers into subs.

Its all relative. Its why the naysayers who predicted the end of Trek because of All Access didnt know what they were talking about. 4 million subs would be considered a rousing success on this platform. 4 million viewers on cable? Not so much.

Only real time will tell; These early days press releases are hyped up to keep shareholders happy, and to get new subscribers to keep signing up for the service.

that’s so weird. Because I am sure the experts here said it would be a failure and no one would watch on a streaming platform. Weird.

Well, it is likely that ratings will stabilise within next two or three weeks.. looks good though.

Wonder what international rating are like, such as UK netflix?

@DataMat — Netflix is Netflix. They do not release ratings. So we’ll never know. They may not even tell CBS.

How many episodes did Twin Peaks have and what effect has the end of the show had on new subscribers? There might be a long game afoot to merge the two which would make a lot of worry about how long Star Trek is funded a bit moot. I suspect the inside CBS accounting changes after that.

@Trek in a Cafe — a lot of series are being green lit without a pilot just because of the finances of it all. It’s much cheaper in the long run to invest in an expensive series like DISC rather than overpay for just one episode, when they can invest more to get multiple episodes that give them something to build an audience with, and add to the catalogue to potentially recoup those costs over time. Trek is one such franchise. Those wishing it will get cancelled to prove themselves right about the misguided direction of Trek are in for a disappointment.

The sign-up numbers are meaningless without cancellation numbers. I signed up and cancelled. According to the way the article is worded, my sign-up is considered part of CBS’s success, even though I later cancelled.

Sort of. But the greater success is in gaining subs. That’s the big obstacle.

Creating a scenario where people “go to the trouble” of subscribing is really important. Far more important than if they didnt subscribe at all.

Cancelling means you’re someone they can target later.

@zoe — that’s not entirely true. You’re now aware of CBSAA, which is something even most people who cancel could not have said a year ago. That’s success by any measure.

My prediction is that if the show is renewed, naysayers will say that CBS Planned a two season renewal from the start and the real test will be if they get a third season.

If it is cancelled, they will ask,”when will we get a Star Trek series for the 21st Century?”

Which is kind of ironic, because that is exactly what we have now.

If it last ten years and is spun off into films, the goofballs will still find a way to be critical.

I think Season 2 is a guaranteed thing, bar a huge drop-off in interest!

I think a longer-term precipitous decline in rating going far into the second season, would put Discovery in a bad place 8n terms of its chances of getting a renewal for Season 3.

But good lord, maybe I should just try to enjoy Season 1 and not wish my life away…. live for the moment…. life is short.

Sounds like a plan!

The only Trek show that gained in ratings past season 1 was TNG. While the others did well, they did lose people year after year. My guess is this will happen to Discovery as well UNLESS it gains a lot of hype as it goes ala GOT!

But yeah I’m not going to over think it. The show is on now, its the first Trek show in over a decade and currently a big hit ratings wise. If and when we hear rumors of the show getting cancelled, I’ll worry then. For now I’m going to assume its going to multiple seasons and hopefully go more than TOS and ENT did even if it never reach the heights of TNG, DS9 and VOY lengthy ride.

If Netflix is still in for the deal, there is almost no reason why CBS wouldn’t continue unless an internal change alters their commitment to All Access, which is always possible.

Ratings dont matter. Subs do. They will see plenty of churn. If they see an increase in subs for Discovery, they will want to see it continue.

Well that just means I have to wait another week before I can subscribe. I’m now beginning to wonder how long past episodes will be available….

They should be available indefinitely. Should, like they would on HBO or Showtime or Netflix. If they’re not, that is just bull****.

I’m going on the assumption they will be but given how cbs has been treating this whole thing you never know.

How has CBS been treating this? They spent millions and millions of dollars creating content which is getting positive reviews and they put it on a platform they own and they ask fans to pay. How dare they!

You have beaten this into the ground for over a year, Kirok. Enough man.

I don’t know. Shows on The CW only have the latest 5 episodes as do many new shows on Hulu. I assume that strategy is to increase interest in Blu-rays when those eventually come out.

@Jeff — that’s a bit of a different deal. You don’t pay for the CW. And Hulu doesn’t own most of their content, and are subject to license restrictions. I believe all of their original series, entire seasons are available at all times.

Apples and oranges. CW license their shows to Netflix. The entire point of AA is for CBS to have 100% control of their content on their own site. It would defeat the purpose if the shows suddenly left.

Kirok, the ENTIRE point of AA is that every show, especially original shows will be there indefinitely. THATS what you are paying for. And shows only ‘expire’ because they have deals with other streaming sites to air them. Those are also free.

The difference with AA is you can’t expect to get subscribers all year if they only air some of the episodes. It just wouldn’t work. It has to be all or nothing or people like you will think twice about subscribing.

And btw, The Good Fight, the original show for AA, is all up and been that way since premiering in March. So don’t worry about it. They will always be there as they should be. Where else would they go? ;)


That’s good news regarding The Good Fight. But given the unconventional behavior CBS has been exhibiting, not only can you not use past behavior of other streamers as evidence of what CBS will do but you may not even use CBS’s own behavior on another of their own streaming only shows as evidence for what they might do.

You’re just as annoying under this name as you were under your old one! lol

You still havent watched but you complain and complain!

Love star trek…on all of its platforms. But let’s be honest what CBS is doing is an absolute joke. The reason why so many of us have cut the cord is the astronomical(get it?) Cost we were and many are still paying for cable. And to hijack people into having to pay this cost for in essence one show. The rest of there lineup is basically warmed over crap. Sure you can justify paying for the app like an HBO or a starz without the content….and in the end every single app will go all access to follow suit and charge and you will end up paying the same as you were originally paying for cable. I enjoyed my free view than shut it off….ill catch it on Amazon for free next year without the commercials or the fee. Don’t cave…..have some friggin patience people, it’s really not that hard…

Nobody’s hijacking you.
You either choose to pay or you don’t.

Its so refreshing to see another person who would rather display their ignorance then do some basic critical thinking.

Yes, people cut the cord because of the expense and because of the ease of getting what they want via streaming.

Streaming is good for consumers.

And while there might be pain in the transition when you have to pay for cable AND streaming to get what you want, that isnt CBS’ fault. They are under no obligation to give their content away for free out of the goodness of their heart.

And yes, every one will go the same way and have a streaming option. That is clear. And it might even cost the same as cable. The difference will be you can pick and choose what you want, when you want, anywhere you want.

Streaming is not a personal attack on you. Relax.

If you dont want to pay for Star Trek, thats cool and totally reasonable for you. Just dont pretend CBS is committing some sort of vile act by *gasp* charging for their content.

Im going for a burger at lunch. And I wont be upset that the restaurant made me drive over there and pay for the food instead of bringing it to me for free.

It will be more than a year before it’s released for viewing on amazon!!! You all sound like a bunch of grumpy old men with no life! What a waste of time arguing with each other over such issues! I don’t like paying for CBS AA either However I love Star Trek and we have waited a long while for something new! So you have to pay to play!!! It’s that simple. If you don’t that’s on you. So enough already!

Just cancelled my subscription. Discovery just not Trek to me,and quality of the other Trek shows except Enterprise sucked,very disappointed.

The quality of all Trek shows EXCEPT Enterprise sucked? Ummm…well, see ya!

@Walt Kozlowski — aren’t you glad you didn’t have to buy some new programming tier from your cable company, with a bunch of other shows you didn’t want, and commit to a one year contract to get a promo rate, in order to find out you hated it?

It’s too bad you didn’t enjoy it, but hooray for the 21st Century streaming entertainment model that gives the consumer the choice over what they watch and pay for! Don’t you wish you could take all those channels you’ve never watched on cable or satellite, cancel your subscription to them, and get a discount on your monthly bill?

In fact, many cable companies, at the very least, require a full billing cycle to drop service.

@Curious Cadet

Kinda like I wish I that since I’m only going to watch Discovery on CBSAA and since that show is a tiny fraction of what CBSAA says they have at their disposal I should only pay a small fraction of their monthly fee, too. But CBSAA already said no discounts.

Yeah. That sure is better than cable!