Star Trek: Discovery debuts its fourth episode tonight. Now that the premiere told Michael Burnham’s backstory and last week’s “second pilot” introduced the USS Discovery and crew, this will be the first regular episode of Star Trek: Discovery and promises a return to the Klingon War arc.
Preview: “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not For The Lamb’s Cry”
Star Trek: Discovery – Season 1, Episode 4
With tensions and stakes high as Starfleet continues in their efforts to end the war with Klingons, Burnham begins to settle in to her new position aboard the USS Discovery.
The episode will be available in the US on CBS All Access at 8:30 pm ET (5:30 PT). In Canada it airs on the Space Channel at 8:00 pm ET (5:00 pm PT). And it will be available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada on Monday at 8 am BST.
Promo video
Shields up! New episode streaming Sunday at 8:30ET / 5:30PT: https://t.co/zpcRz1YhVG #StarTrekDiscovery pic.twitter.com/AJvPsRIonK
— Star Trek: Discovery (@startrekcbs) October 5, 2017
Photos
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- “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry” — Episode 104 — Pictured: Mary Chieffo as L’Rell. Photo Cr: Michael Gibson/CBS é 2017 CBS Interactive. All Rights Reserved.
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- “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry” — Episode 104 — Pictured: Doug Jones as Lieutenant Saru. Photo Cr: Jan Thijs/CBS é 2017 CBS Interactive. All Rights Reserved.
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- Sonequa
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- “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry” — Episode 104 — Pictured (center): Jason Isaacs as Captain Gabriel Lorca. Photo Cr: Jan Thijs/CBS é 2017 CBS Interactive. All Rights Reserved.
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- “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry” — Episode 104 — Pictured: Jason Isaacs as Captain Gabriel Lorca. Photo Cr: Jan Thijs/CBS é 2017 CBS Interactive. All Rights Reserved.
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- “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry” — Episode 104 — Pictured (l-r): Rekha Sharma as Commander Landry; Sonequa Martin-Green as First Officer Michael Burnham. Photo Cr: Jan Thijs/CBS é 2017 CBS Interactive. All Rights Reserved.
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- Michael Burnham gets to don a Starfleet uniform once again in “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry”
Followed by ‘After Trek’ episode 3
The third episode of the Discovery after-show After Trek streams live on CBS All Access tonight at 9:30 pm ET. Both co-showrunners Aaron Harberts and Gretchen J. Berg are guests along with actors Doug Jones and Jason Isaacs. If you tweet questions to @startrekcbs with the tag #AfterTrek they may be answered during the show.
After #StarTrekDiscovery on Sunday, go live with @jasonsfolly @actordougjones @GretchenJBerg & @AaronHarberts! Send your Qs using #AfterTrek pic.twitter.com/7njwjgxs87
— Star Trek: Discovery (@startrekcbs) October 6, 2017
After Trek also airs on Space in Canada at midnight ET and will be available on Netflix on Monday.
What say you?
TrekMovie will be posting a full review of “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not For The Lamb’s Cry” later. But you don’t have to wait to offer your views in the comments below.
Can’t wait to see the rest of the crew!
Before the after show comments start rolling in, I’d like to get something off my chest. I am loving that there is new Star Trek to generate so much conversation on sites like this and I visit Trekmovie multiple times a day to read the awesome reports the staff here are providing (It’s almost unbelievable how much and how high quality from what I believe is volunteer staff!). I am concerned, however, about the degenerating tenor of the conversations. It’s shocking that a series that has for generations inspired the best in people has also inspired recently some terribly bad behavior.
I want to set up my argument with this observation: I have a number of friends and acquaintances who are exceptionally intelligent; engineers, scientists, etc. these are also people who struggle with interpersonal relationships. In the past, they would have been diagnosed with “Asperger’s,” which today is considered part of the autism spectrum. One of the features of personality which which people of rare intelligence often must cope is the inability to easily accept change. When Star Trek 2009 was in the discussion stages I had friends become red-faced angry over the very idea of rebooting the franchise. On the discussion boards here we saw much the same sense of personal affront expressed. To use an example with which we most may be familiar, and intending no disrespect in any way, allow me to offer one of the stars of “Trekkies,” Barbara Adams. Showing up to jury duty in cosplay is not something people would do without a connection to the show so deeply personal and intense it has on some sense subsumed personal identity. Yet that is what Barbara did. Gabriel Köerner is an amazingly talented digital artist, yet displayed obvious difficulty conversing with even close acquaintances. There is nothing “wrong” with either of these two wonderful people, however, as with any of us, they have quirks of personality which shape their interpersonal interactions and the way in which they interface with the world outside themselves. It would be cruel and insensitive for me to tell Barbara to “get in touch with reality,” or to tell Gabriel that he should “stop whining and go away.” (Both comments I have read multiple times in the recent discussions here).
As fans of a show which has long drawn fans like myself who felt like they didn’t fit in or struggled with a sense of self, Star Trek holds a unique place in many people’s hearts. To some people, their internalized reality of Star Trek is central to their internalized reality of themselves. Yes, that may be maladaptive at times and perhaps not the healthiest of coping mechanisms for dealing with a world which seems alien, (and I believe we ALL could do with a little therapy as humans), but it is Star Trek that has helped many people make it through their day, has convinced them there is hope, there is a place where they will be welcomed. Star Trek (as a the famous anecdote by James Doohan can attest) has literally saved people’s lives. There should be absolutely no surprise then that some folks are going to have a very hard time coping with these changes. We should in fact expect there to be both celebration (as in my case) and literal grief (as in the case of a close friend of mine).
I say all of this to make this request: please, be kind to each other. Though it isn’t true for me, for some, the world they have known and which has given them hope for years if shifting beneath their feet. Give them time to find their footing. They are fans, like the rest of us, they just view the world differently. Please don’t add insult to perceived injury and make them feel the community of fans which has been their home is now showing them the door and asking for their key. Let’s embrace each other’s ideas and engage in thoughtful discussion and resist the temptation to belittle, to retort sarcastically, to demean, to insult. Hey, some folks prefer TOS, others TNG, and still others, DSN. Let’s make room for those like myself that enjoy DSC and room for those that don’t to vent. IDIC.
Well said.
Amen. Lots of “bullying” here lately, especially from folks who believe themselves to be tolerant. We should all be a bit more open minded.
Bullying? What do you think “Hutch$” is doing by dismissing all legitimate criticism of this new show by proposing all Star Trek fans are retarded & need to be given time to adjust to the new Anti Star Trek Pro-war series.
Absolutely nothing like what I said. And this is exactly the kind of reaction I am weary of. I specifically said that there needs to be welcome space for criticism as well as praise. I also NEVER even intimated mental retardation, to the opposite, I spoke of exceptional intelligence, the kind of intelligence held by people doing groundbreaking science and engineering. Please read my post again with these facts in mind and let me know if I was unclear in any way so that i can address those misconceptions.
Just brilliant.
Couldn’t have put it better myself. 😀
nice
Unfortunately the new show attracts the lowest common denominator & they are attacking, bullying & bringing out the worst in the fans.
Wow, so your calling Star Trek fans retarded & saying we retards need time to adapt to change?
Your the disgusting one here- Abandoning the heart & ideals of Star Trek are not changes any fan should accept or adjust too no matter how retarded we are.
Frak you.
Please see my response to your comment above. Again, I never said anything about mental retardation, and, yes, everyone needs time to adapt, space to change, and room to offer criticism, including you. I simply wish you would offer it in a less harsh and derisive tone and in one more befitting the spirit of Star Trek.
What’s with these overly dramatic titles? How about……
“And The Bull Behind You Will Surely Gore Your Ass”
“Horsey, Keep Your Tail Up, Keep the Sun Out of My Eyes”
Where No Man Has Gone Before
What Are Little Girls Made Of?
The Conscience of the King
The City on the Edge of Forever
And the Children Shall Lead
Is There No Truth In Beauty?
For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
Great Titles.
I have enjoyed the discovery titles, too.
Maybe you should be writing the titles, as someone who styles himself “Harry Ballz” is obviously a master of high wit.
This this a witty show?
Well, Michael, my other name choice was Holden McGroin.
That gave me a good laugh!!
Now THAT’S funny!
Trying to sound like Shakespeare perhaps. Ex. “Hell is empty and all the devils are here.”
Kind of reminds me of those quotes at the beginning of Grimm.
Riiiiight, because “City on the edge of forever”, “for the world is hollow and I have Touched The sky”, and “Where no man has gone before” didn’t set any kind of precedent for Trek episodic titles …?
How about… “And the pretentious Ballz spews it’s wit.”
she came she saw she died lol
Enough with the Klingon subtitles already! Otherwise, good episode.
Why? you expect Klingon to speak English to their own kind? I really like this.
Yes, gives it sense of cinema realism, the Klingon civil war thing is interesting. Also wasnt the head if the Klingon ship blown out from the body? Did it show the ship intact again?
This was 6 months after the battle. They were repairing the ship, so yes the head is connected again.
Looked to me as if the neck was severely damaged, but not completely severed.
See: “Nearly-Headless Nick” :)
The Klingons seem like slow talkers to me. If Klingon were their first language, wouldn’t they converse at a faster rate? Maybe it’s a little too Shakespearean. Haven’t you ever heard a foreign language and thought they are fast talkers? These characters are just painfully slow.
Compare speech patterns/speed in some regional dialects in American English versus, say, those fluent (first language) in Spanish.
Going to lengths to explain stupid decisions, like reducing the klingon language established & spoken for decades to slow seal mating sounds.
They have in every other incarnation of Star Trek, even in Klingon-centric episodes like “A Matter of Honor” and “Once More Unto the Breach”. There is good reason for that. Subtitles get irritating after a while.
I agree, kinda over the subtitles already. I can appreciate what’s being said, but there’s a world of difference between reading a script and watching actors act. There’s no emotion in the scenes with the subtitles, and I miss the breathtaking visuals of the sets cuz I’m too busy reading.
I never had this problem in the movies, when the Klingons spoke their own language, but something is a little off here. And I really like the idea that they are speaking Klingon to each other in principle. I think maybe the prosthetics are getting in the way somehow.. and yes they are talking too slowly. But I’ll get used to it.
we shouldnt have to get used to bad choices, they need to listen to fans & change the show for the better, this “Fuk the fans” mentality going through Hollywood lately (Twin Peaks: The Return, Halloween 1978 sequel) ect ect is just wrong.
There’s only so much they can change when most of the episodes are already in the can.
Crazy good, im still processing that episode. Spoiler, cant believe they killed off that security lead.
If the Discovery can go to any place in the universe in an instant that would open up new stories I assume.
Im guessing the tech was banned as it was cruel to the ripper Tardigrade spelling?
If starfleet had this technology could they have not saved Voyager in the Delta Quadrant? Years later?
Aside from that kind of story isue the show is looking very high end and the acting is very impressive. I look forward to every Sunday now and thank goodness it is on Space channel here in Canada.
My favorite so far is Lorca, Michael, Saru and the engineering guy is growing on me.
Looking forward to more!
@somethoughts — this only further reinforces my belief that these early experiments led to the Excelsior and transwarp drive project — they had to abandon Discovery and do it without enslaving and abusing a creature
Yes, everytime they mushroom teleported it looked very taxing on that poor bear slug.
The sci fi stuff has been awesome so far.
We also see, for the first time in ST history, how a matter synthesis works on low-level scale (at the beginning of the episode, when Burnham replicates a uniform for herself). First I thought it was some kind of storm on a barren planet :)
Again this connects to the Equinox issues from Voyager. They attempted to use a biological creature to travel great distances and it backfired.
Wow great observation. I forgot all about that. I might watch that two parter again because of that.
If you really want to get under the skin of the disgruntled Star Trek fan, “Voyager” always seems to be the way to do it. As you point out here, this very concept was visited by “Voyager” many, many years ago.
Yes and again what’s funny is these are things that supposedly happened a century later only Discovery is doing it much, much sooner which I have said over and over and over again this strange idea that the show was only going to retain TOS type technology was absurd. Only nerds over think this stuff. Its going to be as advanced as the stuff we seen during TNG (and in fact MORE so because TNG and the others didn’t use holograms on Discovery like we use email today).
Discovery as a ship is basically a 24th century ship but because they decided to plop it in the 23rd century they just called it an advanced experimental ship so it can do basically everything we seen on Trek show previously.
These “holograms” are not solid and are see through they are no where near the tech seen in TNG.
You’re missing my point, they didn’t use hologram communication in the 24th century like its used here. I know in DS9 they did something like that for 1 or 2 episodes but even that was suppose to be a prototype experiment the Defiant have. Here its basically Starfleet technology everywhere. And I’m fine with it btw, but yes it does feel a big distracting we are seeing things that are even beyond the 24th century but I understand why they did it.
So many people obsessed with how this fits in, pre-TOS, from an appearance standpoint, and a depicted tech level standpoint. I think it makes more sense to look at how this fits in, post-Enterprise. In that instance, I think the look and tech level fit nicely.
I guess thats for a reason because it seems completely out of place for the timeline and yet its suppose to be ‘canon’. But to make this clear I’m happy they are doing it for the most part but even for ME it starts to feel distracting when so much of the technology seems VERY advance. I mean the spore drive is not some natural development after Enterprise. Yes its just a prototype but the fact is that they are doing something like this so early feels a bit distracting. It would’ve made more sense for a show to be doing this much later down the line. But that said I like the general idea of it even if it feels a bit too fantastical even for Star Trek.
Spoiler Alert!
This was my least favorite episode so far due to the main plot points feeling almost like they were constructed to kill some characters off and move others closer together. While that may be a description for most tv episodes this one felt so obvious that it lacked intrigue for me.
For example, The death of Landry was bad. I just couldn’t wrap my head around the idea that a security expert wouldn’t understand the concept of “know thy enemy.” In reality I felt like they needed to get rid of her to make room for Lt. Tyler and her death served as a way to get there. Then how could Voq not see he was getting conned by Kol? I think L’rell did. She seemed like she was waiting for the moment to say come with me to my house. The fact that most of there scenes took place on the Shenzou was also odd because I couldn’t figure out why the Federation didn’t blow up the ship when they abandoned it? Why leave that stuff floating out there for anyone to get ahold of? I am glad though that Lorca finally called Staments out on his ego but the idea he came around because a distress message was played throughout the ship seemed disingenuous. I would think someone with his pacifist beliefs would not be swayed like that. After all is there no news reports? Maybe we were supppose to believe the crew hadn’t yet seen the “human” side of war? I did like seeing the ship spin around although I am not sure how realistic all of it was. Then again that’s what technobabble is for!
I think the deaths on the show so far is to serve purpose. Space is not safe and up is down etc Alice in Wonderland theme. The audience gets to see how Lorca handles the death of a close friend and worker how he is focused on ending the war with the Klingons at any cost. We also get to see how Michael is trying to redeem herself and this episode serves that as she helped save the dilithium mining facility.
True but if you know all of that is coming it’s not as enjoyable. At least it wasn’t for me. Plus we hardly knew Landry so her death wasn’t as meaningful as it could have been. If only she had listened to Burnham…I think it’s becoming a theme for this Trek. Lol.
Landry’s death only bugged me because she was so one-note and it was all a little too on the nose (like gung ho Oleson in Star Trek 2009) — but then again, people do stuff like this.
The Voq stuff made sense actually — he’s an idealist and fully believed in this cult of T’Kuvma (and assumed others did too).
So glad they killed of Landry, hated every scene of hers. They went out of their way to write her as an unlikable person, and she was too stupid to live. All of her lines in this episode are basically “I’m grumpy Lorca told us to do this get back to work HMPH.” Was happy she died.
As for the ship spinning, my god that sht was trippy. I’m telling you, this mushroom business is space drugs.
Exactly. It’s been 10 years since Galactica ended. You’d think she would have become a better actress. Glad she’s gone. Best part so far.
I think she was a terrific actress on BSG, and though her character on this show wasn’t at all likable (so far), as a confidante to Lorca who shared his mindset she might have been a valuable window nonetheless. Killing her off so soon, and to so little effect, was a real misjudgment imo.
(Plus, I wanted to see her and Burnham throw down, after that crack about Vulcan martial arts.)
I actually didn’t mind how unlikeable she was. In Star Trek especially there is a tendacy to always have a character to root for. She was a little harder to judge and I appreciated that. Also she was the first female security chief we had seen since Tasha Yar of TNG and they killed her. The death was senseless. We get that Burnham would figure out the creature and would probably empathize with Ripper at some point, or I least I did. Why not allow Landry to live and serve as a window into how Lorca operates…just like u said.
Glad they killed her but the ship spinning in circles, not the disc spinning but the whole ship spinning is awefully lame & bad, worse than the stretch effect in TNG era.
I don’t think Stamets was swayed by the audio. He was in engineering before the majority had been played. Rather I think the challenge to his ego and his legacy did it. Also, the shipwide broadcast was to remind all of the crew of the direness of the situation. Lorca was worried the other scientists onboard might also have hampering concerns, and he didn’t have time to hold one-on-one conversations to convince each one.
Yes but to have a bunch of women and children screaming therefore war is bad trope was terrible to me. I expected more from Trek. Oh well there is always next week! Can’t like every episode ;)
I really liked this episode! They keep upper their game with each episode.
Upped… damn autocorrect. Wish there was an edit function here.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Every episode has gotten better and better. Congrats to everyone, Star Trek being back on tv. It feels like a good mix of tos/tng and ds9 so far. Ethical dillemas, allegories, sci fi, problem solving and projecting what future man kind is like from today. I hope they do a Saru back story episode or Lorca.
This will seem petty — but how did the __________ get to Burnham when it had been on the Shenzhou? It didn’t look like Starfleet had salvaged the wreckage (and T’Kuvma’s ship was still there). Maybe they’ll explain it. Or it could just be a mystery.
I liked this episode better than the last. Discovery is a strange place, and that’s good. It still seems futuristic but plausibly in the same universe at TOS etc (I liked that they’re using synthesizers, like Vonda McIntyre did). And the characters are still interesting – I’m hoping we’ll meet some more of the crew. The Shenzou’s crew made more of an impression in those first two episodes than anyone on Discovery (other than maybe Tilly) has since.
The Klingon irks me a little, mainly because I, wrongly, watch TV while doing other stuff and, in boring scenes, just listen while looking at the screen occasionally — but I think their dialogue might not work as well in spoken English. On previous shows, I’ve always found the Klingon-to-Klingon scenes kind of meh. But these ones are mostly watchable.
I think the telescope was packed away during the evacuations and was delivered to Michael after last will etc was discovered and sent to Discovery. 6 months has passed and Star Fleet knows Michael is now serving on the Discovery with the wishes if Lorca.
@Jack — at a minimum Saru could have grabbed that one item, knowing how important it was to his captain. It’s easily transportable, like a family evacuating their house — what do you take? Something of sentimental value, easily transportable, that can’t be easily replaced. I guess we’ll find out when Saru gets a look at it for the first time.
Along the same lines: Someone rescues a telescope but leaves a fully functional dilithium doohickey on board…?
It probably ended up in one of the escape pods.
Was probably NOT the same telescope. It was said that it was a family heirloom past down over the ages. Perhaps this one was back at Earth if it was so precious to her and her family. She probably had a different one on the ship. It’s plausible.
I suspect it travelled via a plot hole.
The groove of this episode is good enough that my girlfriend, who hadn’t seen any yet, enjoyed it. She liked the play of the values between the Klingons, which is unusual since she doesn’t care for science fiction and she wants to know what happens to the Torchbearer later.
And as for me, this was a great Star Trek episode and I totally like how when the someone dies in this episode it does have a narrative reason. Although that was a crazy decision. I guess you only get to make it once!
Funny how Discovery is like a giant Tardis. That’s season 2, right?
I don’t think this is a spoiler, just an observation that tonight’s episode had an Okudagram with elements of Franz Joseph’s UFP emblem. Which I think is neat. :-)
It’s totally neat (although, I never really loved that thing — it seemed a little human-centric for a multi-species organization). :)
Oh I agree entirely. But given the context, having a male profile AND a female profile was a powerful visual statement of equality. So I’m glad it finally made it to screen.
Honestly wasn’t as big a fan of this episode as last week, which I consider the gold standard of DSC so far. Reading Klingon is getting tiresome and some of the subtitles were a little fast for my eyes. I don’t understand that maneuver they pulled off above the mining colony, like why couldn’t they just fire? Why’d they have to wait for shields to drop to 10% before they jumped out of there and dropped the mines? Doesn’t make sense to me. I do like that they’re co-opting the term “jump” to describe their FTL. Lastly I’m waiting for more humor still. This isn’t BSG despite the crossover actors and terminology. Last episode was fun, Stamets and Lorca playing off each other well, Saru with his blueberries. This episode had little levity. Stamets continues to be one of my favorites, though.
Discovery is not a war ship, Lorca baited the Klingon ships to fire close knowning that when they mushroom teleported the Klingons would destroy each other in a cross fire
I doubt next weeks episode is going to clarify that Discovery is still a science vessel.
She is a warship until somebody clarifies otherwise.
Discovery is a science vessel but forced into war. Lorca has been assigned to Discovery and to try to gain any edge over the Klingons to end the war and ensure survival of Star Fleet.
they said it was a science vessel in episode 3
Also found it a little funny that Elon Musk is somehow in the same category as Zephram Cochrane
Well to be fair they already know Elon Musk will colonize the solar system before we find out. ;)
Well, Musk is talking about settling Mars. If he does that, then yes he would probably be up there with Cochrane.
Anyone notice the Discovery inner and outer rings rotating?
Yes I’m certain you were the first. ;)
Yeah I thought that was kind of silly. Just as the whole panspermia drive concept… I like the show for the most part but those elements really took me out of the groove I was feeling. Also I think they need to have the Klingons move off the sub and just speak a Broken English, I cant enjoy the scene while reading the fast dialog and I want to see the details in the scene.
I’ve grown used to this watching subbed anime over the years.
I actually liked the turning rings. Make the whole ship functional for the spore drive. Very cool idea.
As for the subtitles – I like it. I watch a lot of foreign movie in the original language so I am used to watching a movie and reading the titles. It also makes the Klingons more aliens and mysterious to me. To be honest, I have no issues with it at all.
Thats fair :) .. I would never fault anyone for liking it. Or for wanting to read while cool effects and sets are in view. I read all day so I am ready to listen at the end of the day :) heh
Take it as a challenge and learn Klingon :)
Note that only the outer platings of the rings are spinning. If the whole sections were spinning, the people inside would turn into jelly.
What about the rings turning over each other? That didn’t look like just the hull plating
I think that was just… Graphics… a more “violent” image of how the Spore Drive activates, so the rings aren’t spinning over each other just that the quantum effects of the spore drive make it look like the whole ship spins.
Yup, definitely could be. Perhaps I’m being too literal.
Im mad that the Klingons feasted on Captain Georgio’s remains! Was hoping she survived somehow and was kept as a pow or something.
Dude. They ATE Michelle Yeoh…!
Loved this one. If I’m a little weirded out by the concept of the creature’s symbiosis with the spores, let me also say it’s great to be weirded out by a concept on a Star Trek show again.
Don’t think the final battle with the Klingons was directed very clearly. Nonetheless, the Discovery jumping was absolutely breathtaking. The rotating saucers were exhilarating. Beautiful stuff.
More please!
Oh. Guess I’m in the minority but I love the Klingon subtitles. Makes them nice and alien. Also, some of their dialog is pretty over the top. Would sound lame in English.
I think Klingons eating people feels its going a bit too far but I can live with it. As for the ship though, yeah this thing sounds like it can do amazing things with that jump drive. I still don’t quite get it though, are they saying the ship can literally jump to any point in the galaxy? In a split second or does it still require time to get there (just much much faster ;)). I mean that’s pretty….advanced lol. This show probably would’ve fit better in a post TNG universe but its interesting to watch thus far. Lorca feels like he’s going to be a hand full. This guy HAS to be Section 31 lol.
And its feeling a bit like The Expanse where its a bit dark and bleak. But not in a bad way, just a more realistic tone than the other shows minus DS9 probably.
Well, they do justify it (somewhat) by letting us know they’ve been stranded on T’Kuvma’s wrecked floating ship for the six months since the Battle of the Binary Stars and are running out of food. Pretty grim. (No coincidence Bryan Fuller also ran the Hannibal TV show…)
I think it still requires time to get places, depending on the distances, but I think that time means seconds rather than hours. Voyager could have used some of that.
OK thank you! But I’m still confused on the entire spore engine thing and when Lorca says they can go anywhere does he literally mean the ship can go anywhere it wants OR does he mean it can go anywhere they already know the coordinates to? I got the sense he was talking about the latter when he explained it to Burnham but after the last episode I get the feeling the ship can literally pop up anywhere they want it to with the tardigrade in control and somehow just able to know where everything is. Maybe I just didn’t understand it correctly.
And yes Voyager really could’ve used it and why this probably would make more sense as a post Nemesis show because I actually see them developing this kind of technology AFTER what happened with Voyager and for a way for Starfleet not to lose their ships again or a tactical advantage against deadlier enemies like the Borg. I like the idea but it does seem a bit too fantastical for even Star Trek but I’m curious to see where it goes.
But I actually watched the After Trek show after I posted this and one of the show runners said that next episode they were going to really go into detail on how it works so pretty excited now.
And good point about the Klingons….although I don’t get how they were stranded there for six months????? Did no Klingon vessel just come and help them? This show everyone warps in on a dime so why wasn’t there any ships to show up in all that time? Especially when it was the ship that started them on their crusade, but yes its a different question lol.
Overall still liked the episode though, but I realize this show really is very different from the others.
Technically Voyager did have this tech (or similar to) when they encountered the Equinox. The Equinox attempted to use the “nucleogenic aliens” as a way of quick travel from the Delta Quadrant back to home but it backfired on them.
Yes exactly! Voyager already had the technology but never tried to use it for obvious reasons. I think that would’ve been interesting if a show after that went back to that technology for the same reasons Discovery is trying to adopt it. Man looks like I’m watching Equinox again lol. Haven’t watched it in ages. Maybe Captain Ransom is a descendant of Lorca. It would make soooooo much sense. ;)
As Stamets said as he was looking at the NavCom Addon “[…] all charted Star Systems” so yeah, I guess they do need to know where they are going and can’t just “Blind Jump” somewhere, given that it was shown they might end up too close to a Star.
@SelorKiith — The way I understood it, they lose navigational ability while in a spore jump. So even if they know where they are going, they lose the ability to navigate during the jump, which means they can easily be pulled off course, or end up in the wrong place.
OK thank you Selorkith!
It’s an odd direction for a showrunner to take when he says in one breath that he wants to change the perception of Klingon’s as little more than the traditional bad guys of Star Trek and then opt to portray them as a warrior race that dines on the remains of their adversaries.
Yeah so true. They went on and on how they said the Klingons weren’t going to be treated like ‘thugs’ (although they stopped doing that since the TOS films and they had a much more nuance portrayal from TNG on) and then they give us Klingons that LITERALLY eats people lol. What???? Was that canon somewhere in a TOS episode because I don’t think so. ;)
And its not the fact they just ate anyone, they ate freakin Captain Georgiou who we got to know and like. I mean that’s pretty dark when you think about it.
Just a bit! It was a bit odd.
Well, in all fairness… they were abandoned there for the past 6 months and were running out of food. Desperate times calls for desperate measures. See how easily they were swayed to join KOL when he gave them food?
Remember the soccer team whose plane crashed in the Andes mountains and they had to resort to cannibalism to survive?
Well now we know why they sharpen their teeth before battle…
LOL!
Well, Klingons always talk about eating the hearts of their enemies. And these Klingons were paricularly hungry. Still though…gross.
THIS IS A SECTION 31 SHIP !
Am i the the only one on earth to see that !
No, you are not alone. There are countless Section 31 fan theories surrounding Discovery.
Personally, I don’t think so. Why? Simple: Section 31 is not a part of Starfleet. Section 31 operates outside of Starfleet. Starfleet is all up in the Discovery’s guts. Lorca reports to an Admiral. The ship is staffed with Starfleet personnel. Section 31 inflitrates Starfleet as needed, but that’s not what’s going on here. It is black ops, but not Section 31 blacker-than-black ops.
I agree with you UAB in NORMAL circumstances this is the case. But maybe in this case this was a decision by Starfleet and Section 31 coming together for this operation because the war effort was going so badly. That Starfleet knew it was going to lose the war unless they did something more drastic and why Discovery was given to Lorca. Obviously that could be completely wrong but it wouldn’t be a stretch either. ESPECIALLY when we know that top Starfleet brass are actually Section 31 members like Admiral Marcus was.
I am leaning to the theory this is a Section 31 operation but then I can’t really get over the fact they would make it so obvious that the ship is practically designated after it, which oddly discounts it for me.
Have there been any other admirals that were confirmed Section 31, besides Marcus? He’s in the Kelvin timeline, and therefore, I believe, not applicable to Prime.
Admiral Ross worked with them on DS9 to get the Romulans to stay in the war against the Dominion. And while this isn’t canon, a novel had Admiral Cartwright as an official agent of Section 31 who used his power to form a conspiracy with the Klingons to stop the peace process in TUC.
My point is it isn’t really a stretch at this point they would have the highest of powers as either part of the group or recruited temporarily to help with their agenda as they did with Admiral Ross. Especially in times of actual war.
I think Discovery is off to a great start! I say this as someone whose first Trek was the original broadcast of “Miri” in TOS and has watched almost everything since. I’m wondering about the references in the title of the episode. If the “Butcher’s Knife” is Lorca’s insistence on using the spore-drive by whatever means, then “the Lamb” could be the tardigrade’s literal cries or Landry’s carelessness causing her death or Stamets’ protestations, or Burnham’s objections to talking of a “monster,” etc. A bit surprised Saru hasn’t expressed misgivings about Lorca’s risk-taking. Oh, well. Looking forward to the ride.
Well, damn. This one for me was a real disappointment–Landry’s frakking pointless death, a rescue sequence rendered almost silly by overly bombastic scoring, dull Klingon politics, murky creature subplot, topped-off by a pretty pro-forma posthumous appearance by Georgiou. And I didn’t care for the “spore jump” FX much either.
I’ll be back next week, of course, but man did my enthusiasm for Discovery just take a nosedive.
There will be high and low points for everyone. So, no biggie.
I liked it for sure (and I admit I’m just fascinated to get ANY Trek references in this show from stuff we already know so I’m glued in to every line) but I don’t disagree with your assessment that much.
The Landry death was just bizarre. They hyped this character for awhile just to kill her in her second episode? I understand why they did that for Yeoh’s character because they wanted an emotional shocking impact for both Burnham and the audience. But here it seems kind of head scratching. And man the second she told the computer to lift the force field that just sounded like a really really bad idea. It felt like pretty lazy writing to be honest. We saw what this thing did in the last episode. Did they really think letting it out to ‘stun’ it was going to be easy? Its like they were just trying the fastest way to kill her off. But many seem to already hate her anyway so probably for the best.
I liked the spore jumping thing but yes it did come off a bit weird, especially when the ship started twisting and turning to save that colony. It was a bit out there IMO. I think just having the saucer rotate was enough but will see where it goes.
And sadly I too think I’m going to get tired of the Klingon thing. I was enthralled with every second they were on Discovery but felt like time slowed when they showed the Klingon scenes. And it doesn’t help they repeat the same stuff over and over and over again (“T’kumva was going to reunite all the houses”, “They need a new torchbearer to be the embodiment of Kahless”, “The Empire can only survive if they go back to their old ways”) yeah we get it already.
There was literally no hype around Landry’s character? Honestly, I was surprised she made it off the Glenn last week.
Well maybe ‘hype’ was too strong of a word but they announced her joining the show 5 months ago as if she was going to have a steady role at least. You have to wonder why they put some of these actors in big splashy press releases if they were basically just in a guest starring role? One that only lasted two episodes at that and no character arc what so ever.
http://www.startrek.com/article/discovery-adds-to-its-ranks
To be fair, she did fill the chamber with a tranquilizing gas before she opened the door.
YEs but wasn’t it immune to practically everything? I don’t remember how they captured the animal in the first place and maybe thats how they did it. If so OK, thats a reasonable explanation. But if not it just seem risky for a creature who is literally known for being nearly unstoppable.
And the very least, why not just wait to see if the animal actually fell unconscious first before you lift the force field if nothing else? But I know, too much common sense.
The monitor showed the Ripper’s life signs go to minimal after she flooded the cell wth the gas. But it seems the effect immediately wore off once it got oxygen again, kinda like a tardigrade springs back to life after being exposed to vacuum.
Interesting observation, didn’t notice that and you make a good point. I just assumed Landry was too reckless to live. All her character did was bash Burnham and Vulcans and trumpet “war war war” and she got killed because of course you’ll get killed with a mindset like that.
@Hauke Fischer — this show is a rich visual tapestry of information. I find it ironic that for the first time in Trek history we have a show that can be paused mid-broadcast, and scrutinized, as well as immediately replayed over and over again to a viewer’s pleasure. And yet, people are commenting on these boards without having done that. For most older fans, this would have been a dream — and it would have solved so many debates, and/or created a few.
Not everyone wants to pause for every single little thing looking for clues, unless its something thats really vital to the story.
Thats a fair point Hauke Fischer. But end of the day I think the whole thing was still pretty idiotic and felt a bit lazy. On her own she decided they had to cut up the animal and without even running it by Lorca made this decision in an instant knowing how indestructible it is. I mean if at LEAST get some more security officers in there as back up just in case it goes sideways.
I guess maybe she was suppose to be one of these hot head security officers that acts more on impulse than logic…but we’ll never know now. ;)
you could instruct the computer to slice the claws off or transport the creature to sick bay with force field and have the doctor slice the claw off to study. I agree it was pretty dumb of a security officer to try to slice off the claw from a creature that is pretty immune to destruction.
I think Landry was killed to make room for Tyler.
Which begs the question: WTF did she even exist? She was a pretty useless character that died a stupidly written death.
@UAB — oh you mean like Tasha Yar?
Of course, I completely disagree with you, and I did not expect her to die. I found her a compelling and interesting character that served an important role on board a ship with such a top secret mission, and conveyed an important message about pandering too much to the captains often dangerous whims. Not unlike the political situation we face in the USA today. Unlike Tasha Yar, that was actually an important death, and underscored that we most likely have no idea who is going to go next. Even Burnam is not safe — In fact the more I hear about her situation (i.e. the Admiral’s displeasure over Lorca’s conscription of her), the more I realize she’s a problem for Starfleet, as well as canon. The reason we may not hear of her again is because she dies unexpectedly at some point, and Starfleet buries the whole thing.
Tasha’s problem was that Worf was MUCH more interesting. Crosby got less and less dialogue as Worf rose in prominence, and she asked to leave the show late in Season 1.
Fair point on Tasha, Cadet. Very fair point. lol
But 1 episode after her introduction? Really? To make room for another, eventual security chief? What’s the point? I agree she was a compelling and interesting character. I wanted Landry to stay. But, oh well.
Agreed prefer Landry to have lived was just getting to know these new characters then bam dead lol was this a contract issue with the actress or ? What was the point of hiring the actress for 2 episodes?
@Curious Cadet,
“Unlike Tasha Yar, that was actually an important death”
Lol.
Her death was as pointless as it was stupid. What did we learn about her in these 2 episodes beside her role as security chief? Nothing.
Till her death in ‘Skin of Evil’ we learned a lot about Tasha Yar’s past. The violence that she faced in the colony; the personal issues that she struggled with like drug use and caring for her sister.
Tasha Yar’s death was premature and stupid but at least we got to know more about her.
She was killed to make room for Yeoman Janice Rand.
Still better than “DS9: Move Along Home”.
I never hated that episode. Is it great? No, but Trek has done much worse.
Oh, it’s bad. I mean, it’s not “Threshold” bad. But it’s up there. Move Along Home tested my will to watch a non-TNG or TOS crew that week. I’m glad DS9 is better than the sum of its early parts.
It’s not even the worst DS9 episode, if you ask me. That dishonor belongs to “Profit and Lace”.
Profit and Lace is horrendous, to be sure. lol
@THK,
“Still better than “DS9: Move Along Home”.”
So you all received the same memo or what?
I keep seeing today this reference to “Move Along Home” as a deflection in different Trek forums.
It’s a silly argument. On one hand you guys are basically saying that “yeah this episode is bad but not as bad as that episode over there”.
On the other hand, why should a “bad” episode from another show that was made 20/30 years ago justify a bad episode in a new show that was made in 2017? Not just a new show but a very expensive show with high production values with just 15 episodes.
Pretty much agree with everything you mentioned here. I hope this show evens out a bit…if it’s going to continue to yo-yo like this I’m going to need some Dramamine.
It was choppy for sure but overall, I liked it. Guess I’m the only one really enjoying the Klingon stuff though! Haha!
I don’t think we’ve had one really well directed episode yet, sadly. Some of the fx action is very unclear, the battle at the end being a case in point.
Yeah, Landry’s death was kinda poor. They’d spent two episodes banging us over the head with a hammer that she’s arrogant, but I didn’t think that equated to utter cluelessness.
The stuff I liked outweighed the stuff I didn’t care for, though. Isaacs is great, I loved the tension between him and Stamets, was thrilled when the ship finally jumped.
Saru was very badly served in this one, though.
Someone help me out here but in the beginning of this episode did Burnham get her uniform replicated? I assume so with that very dramatic entry which was a great slight of hand but IIRC replicators didn’t really become a thing until the 24th century? Especially something like clothes. I was never sure about food but replicated clothes was definitely a 24th century deal.
And if true I’m starting to wonder if there is anything this ship CAN’T do than all the other ships we seen in all the shows minus holodecks? Three episodes in and the Discovery could be a 24th century ship easily. 25th century when you count walking holograms and mushroom spores that can take you to any part of the galaxy in seconds.
It’s “particle synthesis”- whatever that means.
I also suspect that by the end of Season One, Discovery’s spore drive will be suppressed and classified seven ways to Sunday since it needs the servitude of another living being to work properly- hence why nobody ever heard of it.
That just sounds like a different technobabble word for replicator lol.
And yeah I agree, since we never heard of any ships having this kind of bizarre technology even 100 years later this obviously will either get shut down or classified on an extreme level. But it also bothers me in a way that everything we may see in this show will just be considered ‘classified’ and why we never heard of these people, Spock having a sister, a really ridiculous super sleek advance ship for this period, etc.
I don’t want to get ahead of myself, I really hope it just doesn’t end up as some special Section 31 operation and how they end up explaining away multiple seasons on the show as not in line with previous canon. I don’t think they WILL do that but after what we have seen in just a few episodes, its going to be really hard to explain stuff down the line as we know the ship is only going to get more advanced and involved with the bigger story. Of course there is always some time travel component but that would feel worse in some ways. But for now I’m just enjoying the ride!
The Vanguard novels did something. Literally nobody in the 24th century knew of what happened because it was classified to such an extent that not even the Federations President had heard of it in 2382.
As for Particle Synthesis/ Replicator- if I recall we never actually saw particle synthesis in TOS, didn’t food just appear from a slot? Maybe what we’ve seen in DIS happened in TOS, just behind the scenes? Either way, it’s a rather minor plot point.
I never read the novels but yeah I don’t really like that idea. One mission fine of course, but an show built around that idea feels a bit too much. But I always suspected IF this ends up being a Section 31 operation it would do exactly that. And it would be a great excuse since Section 31 is not really known to most people in the Federation even if I don’t like it. But they are going to have to explain it all away somehow. I’m not saying any of that will happen only its possible of course.
And yes I got the idea that food was replicated somehow on TOS because of the slot thing as you said. OR it could just be a very large conveyor system of some kind.
I wasn’t saying it was a huge deal. I have no problems if replicators are already here I just think its funny this ship does everything 24th century ships do basically. But I agree its a minor plot point.
If the poor creature survives till the end of the season.
If the poor creature survives until the end of the next episode.
More to the point, they’d better hope that thing doesn’t die on them while they’re stuck behind Klingon lines.
Yeah, that’s an excellent point, Blackmocco.
” The One Where The Tardigrade Monster Navigates The Ship “
In the novel ‘Spock’s World’, the Enterprise’s navigator is a Horta, because being silicon-based allows him to directly interface with the conn.
It’s not a new idea.
So we finally know why the saucer section is made up of rings, and it looks awesome.
Yes.
You know what I like about Klingon stories? Nothing. Lots of people die, and nobody makes any profit.
I’m guessing you would prefer Ferengi???
Bit of a mess, this one.
I guess with all the behind-the-scenes drama it’s not surprising the quality of this show, from episode to episode is uneven I really enjoyed last week’s installment, but this week….well, not as excruciatingly painful as the first episode, but I definitely have issues with it. Again, we’re forced to try and engage with cookie-cutter Klingons, spitting out muffled Klingonese through poorly fitted dentures. Of course, any acting, that may actually bring a connection between the audience and individual Klingons, is rendered null and void by pounds of putty, stilted staccato delivery of dialog along long stretches of subtitles that takes my eyes off of the acting to begin with. I’m still no fan of these Klingons.
spoilers ahead.
More inner-ship beaming, again disregarding the precedent set in day of the Dove.
The ridiculous “jump’” effect of the ship looks like something straight out of Looney Tunes. Since this means of popping in, anywhere in the galaxy, didn’t survive into the future, we can only surmise that Starfleet never perfected the complicated navigation necessary. Thank goodness.
Burnham’s stale delivery of dialog was particularly noticeable this week.
Outside of the welcome TOS sound fx…I didn’t much care for the new sickbay. Doesn’t seem to be designed in a way that lends itself to very creative direction. Kind of boring, actually.
The doc? I’m indifferent at this point. I’ll have to see more. I do like the white uniform, though…it’s the first one I think actually looks good…shades of TMP.
I actually liked the doomed no-nonsense security chief. Was looking forward to peeling back that icy onion, sorry to see her go.
And I really starting to hate these holograms.
The good news? There was no Sarek. With apologies to Mark Lenard…I never thought I’d ever hear myself say that!
Names, we don’t want to hear ever again: T’Kuvma. T’Kuvma. T’KUVMA. T’KUVMA. UVMA, UVMA! TTTT’KUVMA…. * suicide smiley *
That might be a bit problematic given that the Klingons are united behind You-Know-Who’s teachings…. ;)
My god the directing in this episode was absolutely horrible! This is definitely the worst Trek show we’ve ever had.
I read some comments that people can’t get through an episode of the Orville… this is exactly how I feel about every episode of Discovery.
It’s that bad.
You forgot the words “in my opinion”. There are clearly lots of people who here (myself included) who disagree.
you just dig out a few 90s episodes. Maybe, Move Along Home… that is a great episode!
The trolling of Move Along Home always cracks me up here.
Absolutely love that they speak Klingon. Gives it a cultural authenticity, intimidation, and alieness previously missing from past iterations.
In previous trek nothing made me laugh more and take me out of the episode than the stupid forehead of the week alien speaking English like a Massachusetts liberal lol
I’m John Kerry, captain of the Freighter Taxation.
>In previous trek nothing made me laugh more and take me out of the episode than the stupid forehead of the week alien speaking English
Voyager and Enterprise were extremely guilty of this.
Definitely, no one took it to the extreme level than what Braga did and resulted in an epic failure for trek. Hence why he’s persona non grata at CBS and paramount and so now is doing some kind of reject trek for fox.
I have soft spot for Braga. He’s written stinkers, but he’s also written greatness. And he seems like a good guy.
Discovery saucer section = 23rd century rotating restaurant. Perhaps Marriot will buy her and convert her into a hotel/restaurant after she’s decommissioned, a la Enterprise in the classic SNL skit.
OK, I know you’re being critical but I have to admit I LOL’ed. And come on JRK, will you at least consider that it makes no less sense that Voyager’s articulated warp nacelles? (And looks frakking cool to boot?)
Wait, you mean Voyager wasn’t trying to be aerodynamic?
I agree it is cool, though I do love life’s little absurdities.
Aaaah! We’re under full-scale attack from the Klingons! We’re doomed! Please send help! Can we hang on for six hours? Oh sure, no prob.
“Mommy, wake up!” — You now have 5 hour, 49 minutes.
I love Trek!!
Thank goodness for Vulcans and Vulcan-trained Starfleet personnel… now our gallant crew never has to worry about being late to an appointment!
Yeah, the “mommy wake up” audio snippet was a low point for this ep, completely unnecessary. Enjoyed the episode, though as others have mentioned, it was a bit uneven. Hopefully it will get more cohesive as they get more episodes under their belt.
So let me get this straigh… Klingons make a push to take the largest dilithium mine in the Federation with… 3 ships? Just 3 ships? Not even giant cruisers, but 3 Birds of Prey? I don’t know what surprises me more: that or how Starfleet seemingly left their crucial mine unguarded. SMH
It was more than three. Discovery took out two the moment she jumped in. It looked like three or four more were left to go kablooey when Discovery jumped back out.
Also, they said something about a surprise attack on a Federation convoy on its way to Corvan. The rest of the Klingon fleet might be in action there and the ships at Korvan are just the ones that got through.
@UAB — so no possibility the Klingons were engaging other ships in other locations in multiple skirmishes, so they couldn’t protect everything at once? Maybe starting an intentional battle in one location to draw protection away from the intended target, leaving it wide open? And was it the largest dilithium mine? And was it just 3 ships? I rather got the impression that there were Klingon battleships in orbit, whereas DISC could jump into the atmosphere. But I haven’t had a chance to go back and parse the details …
@Curious Cadet – It’s possible my read on this is inaccurate. Like you, I haven’t had the chance to rewatch and parse details. I’m going off my memory of the episode from a single viewing.
So I went back and watched it again last night. You’re right, there’s more than 3 Klingon vessels. So that’s a fair rebuttal to my critique.
Discovery (the ship) is so beautiful. I wasn’t entirely sure about the design at first, but yeah…. wow :)
It’s definitely growing on me!
Yeah it is growing on me too now that we seen it in action and CGI at its best. I still don’t love it though but I imagine by the end of the season I will be completely fine with it. Its a very different stance than where I was when I first saw the image of it and actually questioned would I even watch the show now because it seemed so ugly to me.
Oh yeah, initial reveal had me really worried. I absolutely hated the design reveal.
I’ve warmed up though. It is a beautiful ship, in its own way.
A competently produced piece of sci-fi. I’ll keep on watching the series and maybe even come to enjoy it on a superficial level. Having a captain who at the moment they seem to be setting up as a possible a bad guy however is just too much for me to accept it as Trek. Darkness I can maybe acclimatise to. Amongst the core characters though? He needs to be mellowed and made more likable ASAP if this show is going to properly catch on.
I agree, but keep in mind we are not even a third of the way through the first season. So far I have no reason not to trust that the producers know what they are doing. Look at it this way–this is definitely not a path already trod by other Star Trek series. For better or worse, at least this is something quite different from a character arc perspective.
@Shatners Bassoon — It’s not about the Captain. And we’ve had a LOT of bad captains in Starfleet and TREK. A LOT.
@Curious Cadet, Not running the main vessel every week, season after season.
@Shatners Bassoon — exactly. We had 50 years of that formula, and look how it’s turned out. Again, this story isn’t about Lorca. It’s about Burnam. It’s refreshing. IMHO.
How did it work out? The two most popular shows were captain centred and lack of success in the later series had much more to do with bad scripts and casting than any fundamental problems with the concept of the captain as a hero.
Yeah Issacs was definitely right when he said Lorca is not like any Starfleet Captain we ever seen. He comes off highly complex which is fascinating to watch. And to be honest after watching frat boy Kirk in the Kelvin films the past few years it is exciting to have a really experienced no-nonsense Captain again. But he may be a little too dark for some especially if he is going to turn out bad at the end. To be fair, this episode actually showed the complete opposite of that and his dedication to the Federation but yeah he clearly has a lot of secrets. I’m guessing next episode we are going to learn a lot about him.
But thats what makes Discovery so much different and interesting from all the other Trek shows because its the first Captain whose intentions we ever had to question. Even if we didn’t necessarily like the decisions some of the past Captains made, especially some of the more morality questionable ones, we always knew their heart was in the right place. With Lorca we really don’t know what he’s thinking.
I literally squealed with delight when I saw the Discovery’s saucer rings counter-rotating for the first time. Take that, articulated Voyager warp nacelles! HAHAHAHA!
Seriously though, what an exciting episode, and so Trek-ian: A misunderstood alien lifeform with whom our hero(ine) is trying to connect, Klingon intrigue, ship-to-ship combat, a stirring, energetic musical score… I could go on and on, but you get the point. For my Federation credits, this episode truly felt like “Star Trek”, and yet was simultaneously something completely refreshed for a modern 21st century audience. Spectacular!
Sorry, I thought the soaring music was completely inappropriate to that rescue scene, and weirdly out-of-place for Discovery at this point in the storyline. Not that I fault the writers for that one, or even the composer; whichever post-production supervisor has Bob Justman’s old job should have nixed that immediately. I will blame the writers for this, though: “Mommy, who rescued us?” (“Why, it was Superman, dear!”)
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives…
I have… so many thoughts going on. As with the other episodes, I’ll need to watch this one another time or two to really take it all in.
Off the top of my tired and disorganized head:
I prefer Klingons speaking Klingon. It just makes sense. Hate the way the teeth slurs their speech, and they need to speak faster. But, I like that they’ve taken the GoT Dothraki approach. Speaking of Klingons, I’m digging the inner struggle between the followers of T’Kuvma and the House of Kor.
Why, 6 months later, has nobody come to try and clean up, scavenge, or scuttle either side’s ships from the Battle of the Binary Stars?
Why does bringing what looks like a portable heater reestablish air pressure and atmosphere on a ship blown the heck open?
Okay, the rotating saucer and spiraled vanishing act look awesome. I love it. (And I figured there was a reason they went with that ringed design on the Discovery, just couldn’t figure out what it was on my own.)
Tardigrade navigator high on space dust… The spore must flow.
Landry’s death was dumb. It’s a pet peeve of mine to see characters suddenly say or do stupid things simply because the story requires them to. You know, the kind of thing nobody would say or do. And that’s exactly how I felt about how that scene was written and acted. It happened because… shock value or something. “Well space is dangerous and you just might die. We’re trying to show that.” No, all you showed me was that the security chief is prone to suddenly and inexplicably going stupid.
Speaking of shock value: I watched After Trek right after and while I like the show as a whole, I’m really starting to dislike the way the show runners think. When the fate of Georgiou’s body was revealed, I was pretty turned off. But they had explained food was running low and I excused it. Then on After Trek, Gretchen had said of that reveal: “Did that shock you? GOOD!” The way she said that made me think, “You know, they just threw that line in there because it would shock and disgust. There wasn’t actually a good reason. It’s simply shock value.” Which I find lame reasoning. Star Trek is better than that.
And the third thing that seemingly happened for no reason: The title. Don’t get me wrong, I love the title. I love long and strange, cryptic titles. For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, I Have No Mouth But I Must Scream, I See A Man Sitting On A Chair And The Chair Is Biting His Leg. Love them all. But unless I missed something, that episode title, like Landry’s existence and death, was just there to be there. It didn’t come from dialogue. It didn’t come from some scene. It literally was just like “Hey, that sounds cool.”
The word I keep using to describe how things on Discovery feel, is “disjointed.” And maybe that has to do with having 6,005 producers, the dismissal of Bryan Fuller, CBS executives meddling… I don’t know what the exact cause is. But there is so much on this show that doesn’t jibe with the other parts. It’s like someone dumped someone’s jamming Lisa Frank puzzle pieces into a jigsaw puzzle image of Washington, DC. So much feels weird, and out of place.
I’m starting to really like Tilly. Wish we saw more of her.
I have to say, as someone that tends to be somewhat unemotional, Stamets’ line about how the frontal lobe is unnecessary was fantastic.
The title I think is a reference to Lorca/Stammets not caring if the tardigrade is being hurt while the USS Discovery needs to spore jump to save the federation from the Klingons.
Alright, I could see that. Still seems way too abstract for an episode title to me, but that at least makes some sense.
Question: was it really made clear in this episode that using the spore drive in this fashion was hurting the creature?
I feel like it was.
Thanks for the response. But–“feel,” or was there a specific line of dialogue or something else to establish a pretty important story point? Because if there was, I missed it, and that’s on me. But if not, that’s bad writing.
And yeah, I get that Burnham apologized to the creature at the end. But for what?
pay attention to the creatures whines and the way its body reacts during the jumps. It is in getting exhausted/pained.
Michael apologized as she was the one who explained to Stammets the relationship between the tardigrade and the spores. This led Lorca and stammets to use the monster as the missing computer to plot course and spore jump. Michael felt directly responsible for the tardigrades pain at the end. The pain and suffering of 1 tardigrade to help billions of lives in the war effort against the Klingons. Some things dont need to be said but suggested through acting and body language.
@somethoughts — it also appears as though Burnam’s presence, via her relationship, calms the creature. Instead of going wild, and destroying the chamber as it did with the other ship, the creature seemed resigned to allow it to happen with Burnam standing right in front of it …
Does Michael possess the ability to mind meld or is this just a Vulcan ability?
I felt it was made pretty clear too. I don’t recall a line of dialog but from what we saw of the process, the creature’s body language and Burnham’s reaction to what she was watching, I thought it was pretty obvious there’s some issues here, both for the creature’s health and the ethics involved.
Right. It was never explicitly stated. But the body language and it’s cries – I felt – were indicative of extreme stress and discomfort on the creature. Then there was Michael apologizing to it after the jumps were done and she was feeding it. The lethargic way it was behaving afterward. The spore drive is abusing this creature.
Okay, fair enough. I still think that should have been made more explicit, given its importance to the plot (and, I assume, its impact on future stories). That’s the basis for an interesting Trekkian moral conundrum–the needs of the many, and all–and I’ll revise my opinion of the episode accordingly. But I still have a fair number of other pretty substantial issues with it.
I have a feeling that it was simply implied in Ep 4, but will be addressed through dialogue in Ep 5 or another one. At some point, someone is going to point out that Starfleet isn’t in the torture business.
Yeah, the distress of the tardigrade was pretty obvious.
I guess you’re better at reading tardigrade body language than I am. :-)
That was a lousy episode.
The entire spores drive going active with its spores-addicted space bear navigator was a dumber version of Dune’s navigator. And the ship spinning was so ridiculous, like something out of a cartoon.
The security chief acted in a stupid way and died a pointless death.
So the Federation is in the middle of a massive war against the Klingons and there is this planet that provided them with 40% of the dilithium crystals and yet the planet was left wide open without any defence forces?
A crippled Klingon ship with a cloaking device is left adrift for six months, neither the Federation nor the Klingons thought of going back to retrieve a device that could win them the war!
I’m almost certain that the Matriarchs, the Klingon House mentioned by the Klingon lady at the end of the episode, are going to turn the Klingon albino into a human spy; most likely Tyler.
Perhaps there was a massive fight on the mining facility and only a few Klingon ships remained. That would be awesome to turn the Klingon into a human spy, always been a fan of the departed or the hong kong version infernal affairs.
I liked the episode but yeah there was some poorly written plotting in this one. Admittedly things I didn’t think about myself until people like you pointed these things out like the mining post. Yeah why is that protected like a hawk? Maybe it would’ve been better if they said they DID have Starfleet ships guarding it but they got immediately ambushed by Klingon ships who decloaked and destroyed them.
But yes that leads to the biggest ‘wtf’ plotting of the entire episode and leaving the ONLY Klingon ship with cloaking technology to just be floating in space for 6 months. None of that makes any sense even without the technology. But with it, I doubt they would wait 6 hours to salvage it much less 6 months.
And the same thing goes for the Shinzhou. Why would STARFLEET leave a ship out there at a time of war when it has both sensitive information and technology the Klingons could use??? That was just as puzzling as the Klingon ship being left out there. Because as the episode showed the Klingons were able to board the ship and get the technology needed.
So the episode was far from perfect but I still liked it.Some things could’ve definitely been done or explained better though.
I really like this new series. Would be nice to have it on Netflix in Canada.
Advice: Reduce the rubber around the mouths of the Klingon actors. Use thin make-up instead so they talk more clearly. Right now they sound like Trick or Treaters behind a mask.