Producer Promises ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Will Address “Apparent” Deviations From Canon

Following Saturday evening’s New York Comic Con panel there was a press conference with cast and producers. TrekMovie was there to hear them discuss characters, connections and canon.

Cast and producers for Star Trek: Discovery press conference at New York Comic Con 2017

Canon issues will be dealt with by the end

When asked about how Discovery fits with the rest of the Star Trek universe and, specifically, if it tied in with the Prime or the Kelvin timeline and how that reconciled with more advanced technology seen on the show, executive producer Akiva Goldsman clarified:

We are not the Kelvin timeline…which is a reboot of the original timeline…We are not part of that timeline, we are the original timeline with the TV shows and the movies that fit into that. We are ten years before The Original Series…Where Constitution Class ships are in comparison to where this Discovery prototype – well one of two prototypes, well now one of one prototypes – are technologically is obviously a variant. We are wildly aware of everything that appears to be a deviation from canon. We will will close out each of those issues before we arrive at the 10 year period and hit TOS.

The use of site-to-site transporting as seen in the third episode of Discovery, was specifically mentioned as something that seemed too advanced. Anthony Rapp noted that “Scotty could do it” and he pointed out that the USS Discovery is a newer ship than the USS Enterprise. Co-showrunner Gretchen J. Berg also joined in noting there was some thought put into this one element: 

We talked about it a lot because we knew it was a controversial thing. And we just made the decision that on this ship, you can do it. Since Lorca is a different kind of captain he does it and other captains do not because there are dangers involved.

USS Discovery is a new prototype and, now, the only of its type

Character Inspirations

At different times during the conference some of the actors talked about how they have (or have not) incorporated some past Trek characters into their own.

Mary Chieffo (L’Rell) talked about how she went back and watched all of the Klingon-centric episodes of Star Trek to prepare for the role of L’Rell, paying particularly close attention to Klingon women and there was one character in particular she really connected with:

I keep referencing a character that really resonated with me was Grilka in Deep Space Nine, because it is a real poignant story line of a woman who cannot succeed in her husband’s house because she is a woman…ultimately, though, through her intelligence and perseverance – and the help of Quark – she does become the leader of her own house. I do think what is fun about the Klingons is they allow women to very strong, they are innately strong women, but they still do live within this patriarchal species. I am really excited to see how you guys perceive L’Rell’s relationship within this patriarchal Klingons species. I am thrilled with how we have incorporated that in her story.

Wilson Cruz (Dr. Culber) was new to Star Trek, but says he has done his doctor research:

If [Spock] was the brain and Kirk was the brawn, then McCoy was the heart. And I wanted to infuse [Culber] with as much of that sensibility as possible.

Jason Isaacs (Captain Lorca), who was a fan of Star Trek growing up, says he has tried to keep Lorca different:

I had no desire to be a pale shadow of any of the brilliant stuff I had seen before. So, everything was constructed backwards to not be like anyone I had seen on Star Trek.

Mary Chieffo (L’Rell) inspired by Grilka

More quick quotes

Anthony Rapp (Lieutenant Stamets) on how Discovery compares to other Star Trek shows [which he has been binging]:

I don’t know if [the producers] would say this but I feel [Discovery] really has the most DNA from what has come before is a blend of The Original Series and Deep Space Nine.

Jason Isaacs on how backstories will be revealed:

The richness of these people’s lives will be revealed including who Lorca is, and why Lorca is, and what has happened to him.

Finally, Akiva Goldsman on if we will find out what Spock thinks of Michael Burnham’s mutiny:

Nope.

If you are interested in finding out more about the Spock-Burnham dynamic, David Mack’s Star Trek: Discovery – Desperate Hours is a must-read.


Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusive in the US on CBS All Access with new episodes released Sundays at 8:30 pm ET. In Canada Star Trek: Discovery airs on the Space Channel at the same time. Discovery is available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada with new episodes made available Monday at 8 am BST.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

 

 

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236 Comments on "Producer Promises ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Will Address “Apparent” Deviations From Canon"

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They’ve dug themselves into a HUGE hole. Not going to hold my breath.

I agree. Show and ship is way too advanced for the time period, no matter what the sheep who watches it says. They would watch anything with the words Star Trek in it lol

@Xman — visual continuity does not Canon make. So far, I’ve not seen anything really out of step with what TOS would have looked like if made today, nor anything that violates canon — except site-to-site transporters. While the technology exists, Spock tells us 13 years later, that it’s rarely attempted due to the danger involved. That’s Canon. The fact that Burnam didn’t raise an eybrow when Lorca casually did it, bugs me. That said, if they can address it as part of a science vessel stocked with cutting edge technology not to be implemented for decades in the regular fleet ships, then I’m fine with it.

@CC Funny thing is that I can imagine using holographic screens in the TOS Connie. It would explain how everything looks so austere, with few visible screens or even the unlabeled buttons.

@Curious Cadet – Or write in a transporter accident to show how dangerous site-to-site transports can be. Would be an easy red shirt death.

And I’m sure they’d have Michael Burnham who is “the most knowledgeable transporter technician in Star Fleet”, without giving you any previous indication of that, to come in and Deus Ex Machina them back into working order.

Trellium G,

Re: …write in a transporter accident…

Precisely, if this was the first starship internal site-to-site transport they aren’t going to know how dangerous it is until the failures start piling up as others attempt it. I mean, before something can become to be known as dangerous the danger has to first manifest.

And how cool would it be if Carol Marcus was somehow involved with this ship? In Star Trek III David Marcus explains that he used protomatter to solve certain problems with Genesis but what if it was his mother who nudged him in that direction? It wasn’t the Kirk in him that pushed him to break the rules, it was the Marcus in him.

Hmmmm….

Then you’re either not a proper Trekkie or you’ve not looked at the shows. There are many canon issues that go way beyond aesthetics and modern production values.

@ziplock9000 — such as?

Ahh yes… the “you are not a proper Trekkie” argument…

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PROPER TREKKIE.

Get over yourself…

@Curious Cadet – “visual continuity does not Canon make.” Really? Canon is considered what is SEEN on screen. A television show can only interact with two of our 5 senses, vision and hearing. We can’t touch, taste, or smell a television show. If television did not use visuals, it would be Radio. So, I don’t agree with your statement at all. Didn’t you think it through before you wrote it? And even hearing shows differences, unlike the Shenzhou, the Discovery uses few TOS sound effects. I heard ONE TOS sound effect in sickbay, which strangely is so much more advanced than we see in any other Starfleet vessel that we’ve seen a sickbay in. How do you train doctors to use the displays and devices in a Constitution class ship, and then expect them to learn and use an entirely different system on the Discovery? Not to mention all the differences in the bridge stations. Imagine if every car had different controls? How would you teach someone how to drive? Cadets go through 4 years at the academy. They would need another year to learn the Discovery and Shenzhou’s systems as well as time on those ships to practice and learn them. And then, there’s the different Transporter consoles, which come with the same problem. Today, computers are pretty standardized. They are so similar (even to the OS’es which one can move from Windows to MacOS to Linux with just a small learning curve.) that people can buy nearly any… Read more »

I agree with what you said, especially that they should’ve just called it a reboot because end of the day thats ALL it is, a reboot. I don’t get how you call something a ‘prequel’ if nothing about it looks, acts or sounds like the show you are basing it around.

I will give Enterprise credit in the sense they were smart to make the show 100 years before TOS where they can do their own thing but make references here and there for us to imagine this could turn into TOS even if some of it still stretched reality.

There is NOTHING about this show that makes me think its suppose to be set 10 years before TOS. I mean people really think women officers who wear these very formal Starfleet uniforms will suddenly start wearing bright colored mini-skirts and go-go boots? Remember even if people can explain away Discovery and what it can do we can’t explain away the fact the other ships and uniforms look nothing like TOS either. Maybe spore drive will be shut down but how do you explain walking holograms?

to make this clear I really like Discovery but sadly its too distracting putting it in this period. It would’ve been best if either they put it in a different period OR just call it a reboot and be done with it.

You and I are on the same page, Tiger. Good show, wrong time period.

Exactly Danphine. This is the Kelvin universe all over again. Instead of twisting yourself like a pretzel trying to explain things that clearly doesn’t fit just call it a reboot? They threw those films in an entirely different universe but then said everything was canon before it but yet we still had a British Khan for some reason.

For Discovery just say its a reboot or simply set the show in a farther time period where they can do whatever they want and don’t have to spend time explaining away ‘inconsistencies’. Obviously its too late for the latter now but they can still just admit its a reboot of the universe.

Still on the same page here. Again, I’m just assuming this is KT regardless of what the producers say. It feels like it fits that timeline way better than the prime one.

I agree. I love the show and the look. But to even mention TOS in comparison is ridiculous. I was nine when TOS was first on and I gobbled up every second. I do so here as well but in my old head there is no comparison whatsoever.

The vision of the future in 1966 and the vision of the future in 2017 are completely different. A ship with tons of huge buttons and unidentified blinky lights with static displays would never cut it today. TOS is my first and favorite always and forever but the visual elements just won’t fly with today’s audiences, myself included.

@Al Hartman — yeah I did “THINK IT THROUGH” before I posted. Did you? I just stopped reading after that. I completely disagree with your opinion and you personally. How’s that?

“So far i’ve not seen anything really out of step with TOS” Subspace Hologrames weren’t invented until DS9 era, there was an episode about it. It was new technology.

And then they abandoned it because, let’s face it, it just didn’t work.

@Joshua Daniel — I wasn’t aware of that. I was never a huge DS9 fan. Specific dialogue bothers me, especially story points. That’s incontrovertible canon no matter how you slice it. I might accept Lorca, Burnham, and Sarek doing it … but the exchange between The Shinzhou and Admiral’s ship made it seem common. Unless, DS9 only applied to Starfleet’s implementation of SubSpace holograms, but not local transmissions? I’d have to see that episode, to see how clever they have been with canon here. There’s another possibility I’ve been exploring in my mind, based on the retcon HUD on the viewscreen/window. Essentially, if there’s subspace video on a standard display screen, then there’s no reason that the same could not be projected anywhere (which is why I find this hologram canon problematic), but taking today’s AR tech, and applying it to future tech, there’s no reason that the same technology can’t be implemented via ocular implants, or even neural ones. If so, Trek may have had such communication technology all along. DISC is just allowing the audience to see it. It’s not really there so it looks like a hologram. Either way, it’s a point they need to address given your revelation.

On DS9 they referred to the holographic imager as new, they did not call it new technology. One can get a new car it being new technology…. just saying. I’ll agree, they certainly implied it was new tech though…

Well considering we never saw holographic imagining used like this UNTIL DS9 I would probably say it was pretty much new technology.

We have seen holograms in Star Trek, mostly in the 24th century, but we never saw communication this way until now.

Are you kidding? You find nothing ‘out of step with TOS’? They couldn’t get the uniforms to look slightly the same. The site to site transportation is oddly one of the least issues I have (especially since I didn’t realize they specifically said there was no site to site transportation in TOS ;)). But I think this is kind of the problem for me is your last line and what I have said before. They basically given themselves an out but using a very advance ship with all these crazy elements on it but then can just say its not canon because no other ship can do it. I don’t get whats the point then??? Why not just make it in a period where you can still experiment but not have it be a level 7 classified mission because you can’t actually have it part of the rest of the timeline because it falls out of canon. I don’t get the reasoning for it? There is really NOTHING about this show that needs to even take place in the TOS period. At least with the Kelvin films the reasoning was to actually show the TOS characters. Here they have actually decided to ignore the main TOS characters (which I’m happy for) but then makes it even more of a head scratcher what was the poing of making this show in this period? I guess I don’t get it? When I thought there was for a specific story line to tell… Read more »

Curious Cadet and Joshua Daniel,

Don’t fall so in love with the fictional holodeck tech that you think everything holographic therefore has to involve and stem from it:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v498/n7454/full/nature12217.html

Actual holographic television transmission was invented by MIT’s Michael Bove in 2011 and the first practical holographic TV display in 2013. He predicted it will be commonplace by 2023.

If subspace has the bandwidth to transmit what 60’s produced Trek claimed, it will be solely a matter of waiting for a subspace communications ‘standard’ that assigns bandwidth and a format for the transmission to the already invented holographic television tech.

And yet here you are posting about a show you don’t like. If we are sheep, what does that make you, Xman? lol

I don’t why people have such trouble with this. They just look so foolish rehashing the same lame argument they had been beaten into the ground

Go watch your TOS DVDs if it bothers you that much. Better yet watch yours TOS Betamax tapes

I’m still hoping the current tech is Pre-Duotronics. Because the tech like holodisplays blurs into too many modern Sci-Fi, taking away from Trek’s uniqueness.

The classic TOS look can still be respected. Just look at the new Trek VR Game how well computer overlays work with the TOS Bridge. (If you haven’t seen it, go try it out!) Given what computer experts say regarding crystal tech and quantum computers, the TOS tech very well might be the future. It could easily explain the big buttons and the Cartridges being basically Super External Drives. Just too bad the Discovery technical staff didn’t go for it.

@Wolf — this is where having an ocular, or neural implant actually makes sense for TOS with all of those unmarked buttons, providing an AR HUD if selected by the user. It would be invaluable for a bridge officer.

Baaaa. Yes.

Bigger than Enterprise ever did.

Makes me sad that they chose consciously to rile a sect of the fanbase by intentionally making everything completely different than the era it is set in.

It is mean, really.

They assumed it would be a very minor sect of the fan base and they were right!

How do you know they are right?

Hate to say you’re right, but completely. It’s not just tech, the crew doesn’t act like Starfleet. Did the Tardigrade thing agree to be their source of propulsion? I assume no, because it’s ripping crewpersons into deli sandwiches. So they’re exploiting life forms for selfish purposes. Maybe they can say it’s “off the books,” which is hard to do considering the telepathic races (Vulcans, for one) who would detect subterfuge by any “Section 31” — and how do you keep secrets from super races, not to mention Gary Seven? Just say timeline three (or four or five…) and be done with it.

@Kev-1 — it happened plenty in TREK. Many officers and scientists bent the rules. Lorca is one of them. Stamets another. This is the ship we’re seeing. The Constellation, Exeter, Discovery …

Agreed, but Decker and Tracy were exceptions, and they weren’t the protagonists. They were the “bad guys” who were corrected by Kirk and co. I assume maybe Burnham gets right and gives Lorca what’s coming in future?

@Kev-1 — correct, that’s my expectation. And so far, seems logical. THere’s a lot of comeuppance coming on this show for a lot of characters.

Decker and Tracy were exceptions? I wish I could find the article, but I remember one time reading a synopsis of how poor Starfleet’s psychological profiling must be due to the number of officials who are more than willing to kill, violate the prime directive, etc., to go off on a power trip. Of course, Kirk himself was more than willing to violate the prime directive (only Starfleet’s most important order), but he was the “good guy”, so we let that pass. Along with Decker and Tracy (who not only was willing to violate the Prime Directive, but also admitted to killing THOUSANDS of Yangs), we also had Dr. Adams, Ben Finney, Dr. Daystrom, and Larry Marvick who were all Federation officials or Starfleet Officers who were mentally unhinged or driven by revenge (or other non-Trek type human foibles) and committed their own crimes in a rush for power or glory. And let’s not forget whomever it was at Starfleet that authorized the Enterprise violating the Neutral Zone to steal a cloaking device in “The Enterprise Incident”. If that doesn’t scream “Section 31”, I don’t know what does. Of course, we also had Admiral Cartwright, Lt. Valeris, and goodness knows how many others that all conspired to prevent peace with the Klingons, even at the expense of Kirk and McCoy. And that’s only TOS and the movies with the TOS cast. If we start down the road of TNG, DS9, VOY, etc., we find that abhorrent behavior among Starfleet and… Read more »

Agreed. They have already changed the end of season 1 and season 2 will be a different show in many ways. Why THE F didn’t they just use the formula that’s worked for 51 years?

@ziplock9000 — because I’ve already seen over 700 episodes and movies based on that formula?

The “formula” arguably stopped attracting viewers, though I would say ENT’s mediocrity (until S4) had a lot to do with it. And then, The Sopranos begot serialized high-end TV, which begot Game Of Thrones, and now TV is entirely different than it was when Trek was on the air.

@AJ I think you’re dead on, here.

“and now TV is entirely different than it was when Trek was on the air.”

And that means jumping the bandwagon is an absolute must? I’d be happy for a bit of counter-programming, especially with shows like GoT or TWD dominating current TV.

This sort of high-end, premium, mature, adult, serialized, whatever TV is not what I want for Trek. Sorry, but so far DSC has basically confirmed most of my pre-release concerns. It tries to appeal to a modern-day audience that has been morally compromised by all the “maturity” floating around on cable and online. Hands down, I simply hate the present…

Yes, because that worked so well for Voyager and Enterprise.

It’s really sad that you feel the need to constantly comment on a show you don’t like because it’s not what you want.

Because that formula grew old and tired and killed of Trek for along time …….

Yes because you’re a part of the writers room and you know they’re trapped in the hole of continuity. For some reason, people keep doubting this show and this continues to beat expectations…

Well, it’ll be interesting if they can pull off what he claims. But I’m telling you, in my personal canon it’s the Prime-A timeline.

Or even the “Prime Refit” timeline if you like.

I like to think it is Prime Rib timeline.

Which explains my vegan lifestyle and opposition to DSC …

You never know, it could be the Amazon Prime Timeline.

I see this as the result of Kirk going back in time in the Voyage Home, the one with the whales where scotty gives the past formula for super glass to hold the whales. That alone led to the advance tech in Discovery 😁

Or a butterfly effect from time travel in First Contact. Should get the Department of Temporal Investigation on this one!

If we’re talking personal canon…….

It might as well be Kelvin. Nothing has been shown on screen to suggest that it can’t be (unless George Kirk shows up).

A lot of the technology is similar along with several design aesthetics. The Klingons appear much more like the kelvin Klingons than they do the Prime Klingons.

This is actually part of a post I wrote in the review article of episode 4 (please don’t make me write the title) but it actually goes directly to what the producers are saying about this ‘fitting’ into canon and why I feel they are kind of trying to have it both ways where they use the TOS timeline to get all the old trekkies on board but then throw us on a very advanced experimental ship (with all the aesthetics of the universe completely changed) where they can do practically anything as if they were in the 24th century: I just realized (yes I’m pretty slow in real life) that the writers are essentially having their cake and eating it to by telling us this all takes place in the 23rd century where everything was ‘slower’ and ‘less advanced’ but then gives us this highly advanced experimental ship that looks cooler, bigger and more advanced in many ways to ships in the 24th century. Again I GET it, I have said this countless times, they are making a show of the 23rd century from the view point of 2017 and not 1966. And I agree with that. I didn’t want a ship with big buttons everywhere, cardboard sets and an outdated bridge but this ship could be placed any time in a post Nemesis time universe and no one would blink. Having retro phasers and communicators doesn’t take away from the fact the ship itself is probably capable of… Read more »

There was an old Star Trek comic (from D.C. I believe) where the Enterprise has returned from its five year mission and we see Kirk wearing his TOS uniform while at Starfleet Command in San Francisco everyone else is seen wearing TMP era uniforms. The idea, I would think, is that in deep space technology essentially stands still. No weapons upgrades, no new uniforms, etc. You’re kind of stuck in a time warp after being away from home for such a long period of time. The Enterprise goes into dry dock and gets all of the bells and whistles when it comes out 18 months later.

Ok but I don’t know how that just excuses what Discovery is doing because IIRC almost everyone in TOS time looked the same that Kirk came across: Uniforms, ships, ship interiors, etc. The problem with that is Kirk would have had to eventually meet SOMEONE with different tech out there because remember Kirk’s crew is not the only one who been in space for years, but many ships as well before and after his. But oddly enough everyone they came across in Starfleet all looked essentially the same.

Its a nice idea but it doesn’t really fit, especially given ALL the Star Trek we seen over the years.

Anthony (The Other One)

My theory:

USS Discovery will be instrumental in the Klingon-Starfleet war. However, we will find out that there is something very Section 31 going on. And there will be things that the Federation will want to keep secret, such as the Jump technology. Many people will DIE to keep the secret. We will end up back at TOS era with the War over, but much of what was learned onboard USS Discovery having purged from memory banks, or perhaps even, erased from Timeline altogether. The use and torture of a lifeform, unknown dangers about the drive, and more, we dont yet know will make the drive obsolete. OR the Ship is destroyed, taking the secrets with it. Another possibility is that time travel will be involved somehow and they go back and Burnam is never born, and Spock never has an adopted sister, and starfleet never has a War with the klingons on this scale. At some point we will start to see Oberth Class and Constitution Class ships and early Miranda/Soyuz Class ships.

The Ghost of Thomas Ince

Goldsman is a hack

So is anyone writing comments like this :)

If Discovery is a prototype, then it should be a Discovery-class ship. Also, I would agree that this new show has elements of TOS and DS9, but has a feel of Enterprise too.

It’s a Crossfield-class ship according to the dedication plate. So there were at least three of them, now two.

Ok – I thought I’d hate it, but I’ve liked what I’ve seen so far. What I tell myself this is the prime timeline seen in Parallels where Worf and Riker die on the Enterprise D. That’s the universe where if it can go wrong it does. Burnam wants to do the right things and it all goes wrong. Georgiou tries to stop things and it all goes wrong. Shuttle pilot tries to fix things and it all goes wrong. Glenn tries to test things and it all goes wrong. Discovery tries to test things and it all goes wrong. Security chief – goes wrong. T’Kuvma – goes wrong. Voq trusts somebody – yep goes wrong. But I’m enjoying the trend.

Call it the Wile-E-Coyote verse.

@DJM
LOL

Dont. Do not even try to cover your sorry ass

Mad bro?

The thing with the different Klingons fitting into canon could have a fairly simple solution. Just have a shot of the various kinds of Klingons from Trek we’ve seen. Maybe have Burnham or somebody looking at a file showing us the variety in their species. Don’t have to make a whole episode about it. Just one quick scene will do the job.

If you do that you get the 1960’s version that were limited to budgets and technology and then you get everything else after that which looked more or less in the same ballpark. Discovery has Klingons that look like creatures from Prometheus. Nope. Nada. Don’t f with 51 years of an established global icon. Make a new race

@ziplock9000 — oh I get it, you’re viewing Trek through Targ-covered glasses …

That ship has sailed. They’re established as Klingons, like it or not.

Or the Discovery Klingons are a new ethnicity of Klingons, and the Augmented (TOS) Klingons and the regular TNG Klingons yet to be seen.

Works for me!

“Augmented” Klingons are the saddest chapter in Trek canon.

@ziplock, No, Klingons “don’t talk about that” era of Klingon history, per Worf in “Trials and Tribble-ations” [DS9]

On “Enterprise,” we learned that the human-looking Klingons were genetically manipulated Klingons. That’s why Worf didn’t want to discuss it.

@Marja — sad, sad, chapter in canon.

That sad, huh? You going to be okay?

Yep. Or a scene of a huge gathering of Klingons … different Houses could be represented by different-looking Klingons.

I thought that to but then there were some lines from episode 4 (small spoiler alert) where they said the Klignons did some stuff to Georgiou’s dead body that I have never heard them doing. So I am no longer convinced that they care to make the Klignons fit together. Disappointing but not surprised. It’s still not a deal breaker for me but I was pretty shocked.

A quick shot, so, blink, and you’ll miss it?

No, not that quick. Not Michael Bay direction.

And as if any minute detail could get past us Trekkies! Where you been, Phil?

The DS9 and TOS connection with Discovery is how my friends and I have been comparing it as well. There’s such a great connection tonally.

I agree. That how I’ve been seeing it too. TOS and DS9.

Right there with you.

Definitely agree. What is interesting though is they marketed it more of a TOS and TNG kind of Trek. Not sure why they didn’t include DS9 when talking about the show before it aired? Maybe because it’s not the most popular Trek. (Too bad its my favorite one.)

Yeah, I think DS9 has this “cult” status within the Trek fandom and never broke into the mainstream the way TNG and TOS did. Now that DS9 is on Netflix, it seems to be experiencing a renaissance, and maybe the “What We Leave Behind” documentary will also help. It’s also my favorite.

I think with Trek fans today DS9 is very popular but no it never hit the mainstream like TNG did. Of course it was still highly popular. It was the number one syndicated show for most of its run. I want to say all of but I don’t remember.

But yes it is weird how the producers keep citing TOS and TNG as Discovery’s influence when clearly DS9, at least first season, has just as much if not more so. You now have a serialized show based on a war arc with a group of grey characters. That was DS9 season 3-7. They even had an entire season dealing with war with the Klingons lol. And Way of the Warrior was much more exciting than The Vulcan Hello/Binary Stars opening but I guess because by the characters and situation was known not to mention bringing a popular character like Worf in.

And if Section 31 is actually involved that would make it even more closer to DS9 obviously since neither of those shows had that group.

I had a temp job at a huge pharmaceutical company we all know the name of. I worked in the library, accessing records to be processed by the federal government. All you would have to do is pick up stuff that fell off the moving shelves to replace them and find a drug that had been experimented on for years before even a hint of it was mentioned in the press. I am sure the same thing goes with all military technology.

OH yeah … just a look at what DARPA [Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency] has declassified is … chilling.

As I suspected, DISCOVERY has turned out to be a complete ‘re-imagining’ of the source material by it’s new makers, and is entirely unconvincing as a ‘prime timeline’ precursor to the original TOS show’s era and tone.

However…seeing as I went into the first 3 episodes with the view that this show is’merely set in an unconnected ‘Alternative Universe’ to the classic show’s universe, I’ve actually found it to be sufficiently entertaining when looked on this way – enough for me to look forward to seeing whatever comes next, no matter how wacky the look of it’s ‘Klingons’ or anything else prove to be in the forthcoming episodes!

…as long as I disregard the ‘prime timeline’ claims of it’s makers, no matter what. ;)

Then you are just fooling yourself with your closed mind. You are black and white with no shades of grey. You need everything to fall exactly into place in your mind. You cannot see past the adventures on one starship at a particular place in time. You do know that the Enterprise was much older than the ships we’ve seen on Discovery. The Discovery is a new ship with new tech. An experimental ship. Where as the Enterprise has bern out there a decade or so. It’s all plausible in the same universe you know and love. Open your mind.

See my post above. The Enterprise was built earlier than Discovery, but it gets constant refits and upgrades along the way.

Look at the changes to the exterior from the Cage through the fisrt season.

Look at the changes to Engineering.

Even the bridge changes through the show.

Watch “Tomorrow is Yesterday” where Kirk comments that techs gave the Computer voice some personality just before the episode started after they had put into a starbase for upgrades to the ship’s computer.

The Enterprise during TOS has to be a more advanced ship than Discovery. It’s 10 years later at minimum. It’s the flagship. It’s like saying that every current Navy Ship can’t have technology newer than 20 years ago.

Ships put in on a regular schedule for updates and refits.

And see my posts why it’s stupid that Discovery and the Glenn as well as the Shenzhou uses different control systems than a Constitution class ship. You can’t transfer crew between ships if they use entirely different systems.

So, there’s nothing wrong with us. We just expect quality and continuity in the show.

Actually, there is something wrong with you… You’re close minded. Enterprise gets minor upgrades and updates. It gets refit after Kirk’s 5 year mission. Discovery was built new. So unless Enterprise was going into a refit, it would sty basically the same with minor changes. Oh, and changing the computer was basically like a software update.
Why can’t you transfer crews with different tech? Working in TV stations my entire adult life… I went from an older station with older tech. I opened a new station with state of the art tech while the other station was years behind.
Army planes, tanks, ships that were around 20-30 years older than newer ones wouldn’t have the same technology.

“Flagship” means an Admiral (flag officer) is on board. Enterprise wasn’t starfleet’s flagship.

Thorny that’s not how the term flagship is used in Starfleet; from TNG on it always referred to the Enterprise. But in TOS that was never established. In real life, however, you’re right about the definition of flagship.

@ Trek fan 67 – Thanks for the advice, but I just happen to find everything about this new show even MORE plausible if I view it as occurring in an ‘Alternative Universe’ to the TOS show.

@Cervantes it isn’t.

@ AdAstraPerAspera – ha, ha, I’ll stick with my preference thanks.

@AdAstraPerAspera — but there’s nothing preventing someone from viewing it that way … yet. Just like there is absolutely nothing in the Bad Robot films that proves it’s taking place in an alternate universe, rather than just rewriting the timeline.

In fact, if Kurtzman believes the latter, and there is no Kelvin Universe, only the Prime Universe being overwritten following Nero’s incursion on the timeline, then that explains everything. ;-)

Discovery is more advanced then the Federation flagship? Seriously? Please at least pretend your making an effort not to annoy fans with this rubbish.

@Raptornet — How is that not a valid argument? It’s a scientific vessel with prototype technology. It’s untested. The Constitution Class vessels have been around for over a decade, and were built with field tested technology. You don’t put the most advanced stuff on the front line until it’s bullet proof. Remember the M-5?

The TOS Enterprise was never established as the flagship. The E-D was the first Enterprise flagship.

The TOS Enterprise wasn’t the flagship. Maybe you should make an effort? Because you don’t sound like you’re much of a fan.

They JUST, in THIS episode explained how Discovery was built specifically for this mission, specifically by Stamet’s design.

You might be confusing the TOS E with the Kelvin Timeline E. The KT Enterprise WAS established to be the flagship of the fleet, but not the prime version.

Yeah, Pike called it that. But how can it be the flagship without a flag officer on board? Either the definition changes by the 23rd Century, or the writers didn’t realize what a flagship was.

The second one.

And frankly, I think the whole Enterprise legend thing was overblown after TOS. Why does it have to be the best ship in a fleet of a lot of ships?

The Discovery can’t be more advanced than the Constitution Class as seen in TOS, because it’s ten years older at least probably more as it takes time to design and build a ship, then do shakedowns/space trials before it goes into service.

The Enterprise was built before Discovery, but it receives constant refits and upgrades. Between “Where No Man Has Gone Before” and and the other episodes filmed after that, it’s pretty obvious that the Enterprise has received refitting.

The Engineering compartment changed over the course of the show.

There’s no way that Starfleet decided, “Let’s put the Enterprise into a starbase for upgrades, but don’t put in the newest technology. Put in stuff 15 years old, ok?”

@Al — see my comment above. Other than cosmetics, what technology did they change between The Cage, WNMHGB, and TOS? And does canon actually tell us they put into a starbase regularly for updates? I mean the Enterprise was supposed to be on a 5 year mission. Regardless, retrofitting an old design is not exactly the same as integrating new technology into the ship.

Not sure how Discovery can have a smaller registry number than 1701 either.

@Ian – registry numbers have never followed a pattern.

Oh, that’s right – the Constellation put paid to that.

Its waaaaaaay too much spin going on lol. The two shows share nothing in common other than being in the same supposed time line and some minor similarities. But this idea that Discovery’s tech is in line with TOS if we just believe its a bit newer (while also ignoring the fact the ship has some more advanced tech than ships in the 24th century did) then OF COURSE we now can believe they can have HUD view screens and walking holograms although the TOS films never presented anything close to this either. And I hate to tell people this but the Enterprise was not the only ship we ever saw on that show. We saw quite a few other starships and they all basically looked the same with the same hardware.

Maybe the producers have something up their sleeves that will convince us these shows only exist a decade apart but it is funny we haven’t gotten halfway through season one before people realized the show is more of a reboot with really advance tech and not really buying what they are saying. Because we have eyes.

Discovery has gone out of its way to show us similar TOS elements actually. The ship is an experimental, brand new, specifically-designed ship. There is no issue.

And if they showed us the Enterprise and it looked identical to the 60’s, then I would have an issue because thats stupid. They can keep the ship fundamentally the same while updating the effects and sets and make the Enterprise look awesome.

I don’t really buy that. The ‘TOS elements’ are pretty bare when you have a ship that feels way more advanced than anything out there. Even the Shenzhou was pretty advanced in what it did.

And as I said the Discovery is basically the writers having their cake and eating it too. They can say its all ‘canon’ because the Discovery is probably some classified highly experimental Section 31 ship but then why even BOTHER putting it in this period if you have a ship and crew that feels completely out of step with everyone else. And especially if everything we see will just be condoned a secret at the end of the day. It just makes the ship feel so isolated to the rest of the fleet.

I really like the show so far but it was really to make a show in this period if they are advancing tech by decades. Why not just have the Discovery in a later time and they don’t have to explain the other stuff like the uniforms or Klingons?

TOS Enterprise is what is totally unbelievable at this point. No way we are that low tech in the future unless there was some sort of galactic tech ban or galactic apoloclypse….

The Constitution class is not 10 years older than the Discovery.

According to Star Trek Encyclopedia, the Constitution-class lineage was launched some time prior to 2245.

The show is set in 2256, and established that Discovery is a brand new ship. If anything, the Constitution class is OLDER than the Crossfield class.

And we know that around this time Captain Pike is already flying around in the Enterprise. Pike and Spock even make an appearance in the Desperate Hours novel.

I seriously hope Pike and Spock do not make an appearance on this show. But I fear some kind of crossover is inevitable.

@Danpaine — I’d enjoy it actually as long as there’s a reason for it. In fact, I’d love to see a spin-off series with the adventures of Pike and Spock — a way to capture the essence of Roddenberry’s Trek without necessarily retreading sacred ground. Indeed, they could minimize Spock’s role while elevating Number One, making it even less of a retread of TOS.

Cadet – Admittedly, my concern is with muddying the waters of canon even more. If it were done with the care it deserved, I can see where such incarnation like you’re talking about would be interesting. Personally, I’d love to see something set in the 90 years between TUC and TNG.

@Danpaine — as would I.

They already said you will never see Spock or anyone else from the Enterprise on this show. My guess is that may include Pike but there could be some wiggle room there.

And yes I would like a show set between TUC and TNG. That probably would’ve been the better way to go.

@Vic Huh? You start by saying the E isn’t older than Discovery, and then argue (correctly) that is is. Did I miss something?

Sorry, I meant the Connie is not 10 years NEWER than Discovery (even if TOS is set 10 years after Discovery).

That was in response to the comment above stating that “The Discovery can’t be more advanced than the Constitution Class as seen in TOS, because it’s ten years older at least probably more”

As I have mentioned, Discovery not only can be more advanced, but actually is because it is a newer design.

….unless the new stuff was not compatable, or they didn’t have the new stuff out as far the E was, or….

Whatever.
I hate the subtitles for when the Klingons talk. You miss the visuals because you have to look to the bottom of the screen to see what is being said. This distracts from the viewing experience. It will also promote piracy of the show so people can watch and re-run the sections where they missed visuals or to re-read the subtitles that will sometimes flash so quickly on the screen that you cannot always read what was said.
Just because some geeks have taken the time to learn a fake language doesn’t mean everyone else has. Maybe have one or two lines of Klingon when changing scenes but have them speak English for the rest of the scene. After all, this is a show made in an English speaking country for English speaking people.

Sorry, SS, but if the Klingons as presently designed spoke English, we wouldn’t understand it.

The makeup appliances for the teeth would make ANY speech sound like it was coming through a mouthful of marbles, or mashed potatoes, or maybe, mice.

The Klingon teeth appliances need to be redesigned ASAP.

I’m fine with reading subtitles — what I can’t stand is actors having to try to act around the obstacle of a poor makeup design.

Someone just had to “soup up” the Klingon makeup and they went way too far, IMO, at least in the mouth region. I think, we just need to see the variety of Klingons we saw on TNG, DS9, and VOY, mixed in with these … [echo-y voice on loudspeaker]
SUPER KLINGONS!!!

@ Marja – Good point about the teeth making things difficult for the actors. I don’t mind watching subtitled ‘foreign language’ movies personally, but I found the amount of ‘Klingon language’ in the first couple of episodes to be a real slog for some reason. I think I’d have preferred for them to have been seen to start of with subtitles, then ‘transition’ into speaking English a short while afterwards – I can’t remember where I’ve seen that method used before, but I remember it was quite effective in getting the idea over that the characters spoke a ‘foreign language’.

However, as you say, the teeth would probably have given every ‘Klingon’ an English-sounding lisp!

I first saw method you’re describing in The Hunt For Red October and was totally impressed. Itjink it works wonderfully.

@ windelkin – Thankyou! That was bugging me, as it’s been many years since I saw that movie. I’d never have remembered in a million years. It was definately an effective method to eliminate a lot of subtitles, I recall.

Yep. And it was done in Trek VI.

I think they just speak too slow thats really the issue for me. I don’t mind they speak only Klingon but speed it up already. It sounds like someone who is speaking in a foreign language for the first time and trying to sound every word as correctly as possible. Its too many gaps in their words.

I have little issue with their sound or voices.

@ TUP – Me neither. It’s just the fact that this necessitates so many subtitles for everyone to wade through in whatever episode they feature. Still, I guess as it’s not really a ‘family’-centric show anymore, it won’t matter as most kids won’t get to see it, so most adults should have no real problem with so much reading to do.

How many 6 year olds would ever watch this show lol. Its not a kids show in the least.

Yeah, I also think that some of their dialogue would be unbearable in English.

There would be nothing wrong with the Klingons keeping their “accent” while speaking English.

I know it’s silly, but whenever I hear or read what the producers have to say about the show I can feel my very own “threat ganglia” tingling. Thing is: What Goldsman says could (from a somewhat pessimistic standpoint) basically interpreted in two ways:
a) they’ll just find more “creative” ways to ignore canon (on which my stance is “so-so” by now anyway, since I’ve more or less come to regard the show as its own beast – which still has me hoping for a swing towards a lighter, more optimistic tone regardless, mind you!)
b) the season (or the entire show, for that matter) ends in a giant retcon (which in turn has me saying: Just give it room to breathe, geez!)

But I DON’T want it to be one big reset. That was the same thing proposed by people with the Kelvin films and that someone stopped Nero from going through the black hole and everything changes back. But then that would mean everything we seen before doesn’t matter. Same for Discovery. All those missions and development will kind of be wiped away will make it feel less interesting on rewatches.

Doesn’t even need to be an outright reset – already a retcon of the “Discovery has been a Section 31 ship all along, so nothing they do will ever be known to any normal Starfleet officer”-type would be a massive bummer, if you ask me.

Yeah that will suck as much IMO. It just feels like a very shoe horn way to have an advanced ship in the 23rd century but then says it counts because no one knows about it. I don’t mind a ship for covert missions but when the ship itself isn’t even known to the rest of the fleet because of what it does it feels isolating.

My sense is he means what they have said before, that they will transition to more familiar imagery. Not that they will explain why Trek today doesnt look like the 60’s. But more familiar, but updated, looking TOS imagery.

Realistically, Discovery is newer than Enterprise 1701. So going to 1701 is moving backwards in Trek technology.

They’ve mentioned this idea of moving towards TOS and setting TOS up so I think they have a master plan whereby they either end up existing in the same period or the series end game is to essentially end where Kirk’s 5 year mission begins.

Perhaps with Spock being promoted to first officer of the Enterprise with Kirk becoming Captain and an issue where Sarek will not attend, so Michael does.

That’d be the ideal outcome (minus the Spock thing… sorta. I’d be very glad if they’d just keep that kind of “fanservice” to a minumum). Well, keeping an open mind. We will see.

Been seeing a theory doing the rounds…
This is Lorca from the mirror universe, and Landry is from there as well, hence why they’re so close. Explains their character and actions so far. Reminds me of the shock of seeing Bashir in the Dominion internment camp 371 wearing the old uniform (except that was due to changeling). Guess we’ll see…

Pretty sure Michelle Yeoh will be back for the Mirror episode with Georgiou being alive there

Same here, this Starfleet is more like a Mirror Universe. I’d be fine with a Mirror Star Trek series, but to say this is the prime timeline is wrong. These characters lack Starfleet discipline, such as how Stamets talked back to his captain. My wife has already said she is not going to watch anymore of them. She thought this was more like Star Wars than Trek.

There is more I wanted to add here, but I don’t have the time. (Spoiler) such has how senseless Landry was killed off… Anyways, show producers need to give up that this is Prime timeline, I have.

But couldn’t you have said that about DS9 when they were involved in the Dominion war? Those characters did some questionable things as well. And Stamets talked to Lorca like that because he was forced to work on his ship and considers him a warmonger. Thats the point, he doesn’t respect the Captain. But you’re also forgetting how many times Sisko and Kira got into it the first two seasons as well because she didn’t respect Sisko nor wanted to be there either.

But I get your point, a lot of the characters feel unlikable but we are meeting them when morale is at its worst. If this was TOS and TNG when the Federation was in its groove and everyone was generally happy it may be a different story.

However I think setting it in this time period was a HUGE mistake but it has just started. I don’t think putting in the prime universe was a mistake though, the problem is we have to accept this is currently a Federation in a time of war and crisis. I just think it could’ve been at a later time.

Thats an interesting theory and would explain why they are apparently doing a mirror episode so quickly.

Personally, I don’t care if they patch up canon discrepancies or not. As numerous others have pointed out, Trek is littered with them. Few are losing sleep over this…

Unfortunately the few that are, feel a constant need to gripe on about it which makes visiting websites like TrekMovie less and less fun each time.

I hate to break the news to people but they been ‘griping’ about this since Enterprise. And then through every single Kelvin film, ESPECIALLY STID.

So people are now surprised more griping is being done? No offense but where have people been? Its been this way for literally 15 years now. Sadly this is what prequels do when they deviate from the norm even a little. And with Discovery its a LOT! But the complaining has actually been longer when you add in the Voyager years but the griping was more about show not living up to its premise and not canon issues like Enterprise, the Kelvin films and now what Discovery is going through.

But sure you are more than welcome to visit a Trek website where these issues are never brought up. And when you find this site, please let the rest of us know, along with the pot of gold you found it with.

THE NACELLES ARE ALL WRONG

TREK IS DOOMED

My favorite Martian

LOL! So true for some fans

I’m not so worried about where it fits into canon, at this point. It’s a new — and therefore different — Trek show. Enjoy. If some of us can’t enjoy, we are always free to change the channel, I mean stream.

We shouldn’t have too, they should make a Star Trek that is at least regognisable as Star Trek

So far, this is recognizable as Trek to me.

All this whining about holograms and displays (and even uniforms) is silly.

I find it sad that the makers of Discovery have abandoned the rule that looks are canon and now apply criteria that work for novels but not for television. They only don’t admit it although it is blindingly obvious. What’s worse is that many fans make a case for them and suddenly claim that looks were never canon, and that they discard the look of anything in Star Trek as a merely aesthetical issue that may or even must change over time. They ignore that the look of the ships always had a meaning. You could always tell apart old from new ships. It was part of the fun. Discovery ignores and even reverses this rule, looking at the design of the “old” Shenzhou. The sizes of the ships also had a significance because they influenced the storytelling (Enterprise-D vs Voyager). In Discovery there is no reasonable limit to the ship sizes. And every ship is much larger than the original Enterprise, the supposedly most powerful of the fleet (at least in the old continuity). And don’t even get me started on the Klingons. I’m not a nitpicker. I want Star Trek to make sense. Also on a larger scale. It doesn’t bother me that site to site transport appears before its time. That is a very minor issue compared to the visuals. And it is a waste to talk about it and even think about how to “fix” it when so much greater problems exist that the producers want… Read more »

Site to site transport occurs at least twice in TOS: “A Piece of the Action” (a gangster is beamed StoS) and “Day of the Dove”.

@Ometiklan — “APOTA” doesn’t count, because it was site-to-site on the planet, not between decks of a ship. There are many examples in TOS of beaming someone from one place to another. “Dove” is the one that has intra-ship beaming, and that’s where the canon comes from that it’s rarely done due to the danger, though, why it’s more dangerous to beam a few feet versus a few hundred kilometers is beyond me … but that’s how it is …

But does it really matter? Site to site beaming has been a main stay in Trek for decades now. Yes I get it, it wasn’t in ToS, well welcome to my ‘this is why I hate prequels’ argument. ;)

But AFAIK they didn’t have replicators either and in the same episode the computer replicated Burnham a new uniform. Its just a more advanced ship that can do all kinds of crazy things, you may just have to leave it at that.

@Bernd Schneider — you seem to have made up your mind, but frankly, I think it’s time to give up on a visual design scheme that originated in the early 1960s. It had a good 50 year run, but now doesn’t really hold up to modern scrutiny. And yes, the introduction of something that was clearly referenced in canon as being problematic is worse than changing the way things look in my book. So there you go. Sorry you have such a problem with it.

A number of years ago I took part in a late night shoot on the bridge set of Star Trek New Voyages that led to what had to be the geekiest conversation about canon continuity I’ve ever heard, which probably meant it was the geekiest conversation that’s ever been. You nerds can’t begin to compete, and you shouldn’t even try.

@ Michael Hall – I can assure you that some of us will continue with certain opposing ‘opinions’ concerning this show, regardless of that particular conversation.

Um, okay. That was a joke, to maybe help y’all smile and put this conversation in its ludicrous perspective. (Though it actually did happen.) Well, I guess not. Tough crowd! By all means, ‘oppose opinion’ away.

Garak Stole My Scissors

They can fix it in post.

I have said im hundred times and i’ll say it again: if the producers stuck rigidly to cannon to the point that they replicated the 1960s aesthetic and design- the show would never have gotten off the ground. It would have been derided and treated as if it were a spoof. Those people that are moaning about the visual aspects now would be complaining regardless.

In my head, the way I see it is that this is the TOS era shot in the style of the 21st century. All the other Starfleet ships at the time look like this- including Enterprise. This is a modern reinterpretation of a classic era. The holography communications are state-of-the-art and likely confined to Discovery and a few other ships and a number of installations.

I don’t sweat the details too much because Star Trek is once again prestige TV. I have been a fan for over 20 years. I am overjoyed that TV Star Trek has finally evolved and has left the stale formula of previous series behind.

“In my head, the way I see it is that this is the TOS era shot in the style of the 21st century. All the other Starfleet ships at the time look like this- including Enterprise.”

That way of looking at 50 year old TV space opera is far too reasonable to be taken seriously.

You are 100% correct. And its the most idiotic topic that gets rehashed with EVERY SINGLE THREAD. By the same handful of people.

Its a visual update.

The way I see Akiva’s remarks are more to the canon of story telling, not holographic mirrors and such. If we see a Connie, it will have displays similar to what we’re seeing now.

It comes back to the big question, why base it pre-TOS era? You have all the freedom you want after Voyager to make things look as cool as could be, why make a prequel?

Because they wanted to set it in the period of the first major Federation-Klingon war. Because they wanted Sarek and his adopted human daughter as characters.

Now, maybe that will akk pay off splendidly, and maybe not. But those were the creative parameters Fuller and Kurtzman wanted to explore, regardless. And I still have a hard time understanding why these so-called canon concerns would be such an issue to anyone over the age of 25. Is it really so important that this future history hang together visually, when we clearly didn’t have a Eugenics War in the 1990s, and TOS interfaces and equipment are incredibly dated even by the standards of 2017, let alone 2256? How do you reconcile that, seriously?

I can see lots of reasons that a long-time fan might not find this show to their liking. It’s tonally very different, and so far the characters are mostly not all that likable. I don’t have a problem with that per se, because that’s common in prestige television, and I’d seriously love to see a Trek series get to that kind of level, though Discovery has a long way to go in that regard. But it’ll never get there so long as it is hobbled by the technical and thematic limitations imposed on shows produced in the 1990s, let alone 1966.

Honestly at least so far the only justification for having it in this period is for Sarek to show up basically. The first major Federation-Klingon war was never a thing in canon. The entire point of having Klingons in TOS was the Soviet-U.S. cold war situation where the threat of war was always there but never actually had a full scale war, which we clearly never did with the Soviets. But hey, I get it, someone wanted to that so they did. And don’t get me wrong, none of this stops me from liking the show. I don’t have a major issue with it but yes I knew others WOULD and here we are. So you have to wonder why put themselves in this situation? New fans don’t care when the show takes place. It could take place in the 33rd century for all they care. People kept saying over and over again they wanted the TOS period because its something everyone knows and can market. Well how do you ‘market’ that when you literally changed everything in it? Nothing looks like TOS in the slightest. Sure it looks like Star Trek at least but you would be hard pressed trying to figure out exactly what time period it took place in if Burnham didn’t give us the year. And they already said they have officially ruled out any appearances of characters from the TOS Enterprise (which I cynically thought all of this was REALLY about) so you have to… Read more »

@Chris — and that is the BIG question. If we knew the answer now, we’d likely not need to watch the series. If they don’t justify setting it in this period by the end of the season, then we can complain all we want …

Holographic communication and interfaces were shown in the FUTURE of DS9 (“The Visitor”)… that’s the early 25th century. This isn’t just a visual aspect, it’s canon-related tech. Not to talk about spore drives and crazy rotating saucer sections.

There was NO REASON they couldn’t have set this show in the early 25th century…
1. Federation entertaining brand-new propulsion experiements to reach out further into the cosmos… check!
2. Holograohic interfaces and communication… check!
3. Radical Klingon isolationists fending off Federation influence by starting a new war, even altering their physical appearance to look like ancient Klingons… check!
4. Darker uniforms with new details, a ship design that resembles the Enterprise-E… check!
Apart from the lousy “Spock’s sister Michael” aspect, all of this would have worked perfectly well in a post-NEM setting!

Agreed Smike. It would just make a lot more sense to put it in the 25th century. As you stated ALL their problems would have gone away. It would fit perfectly there with all these elements. But having it in the 23rd century and supposedly before TOS started just feels too distracting.

I’m COMPLETELY on board to having a more advanced and updated look. The show wouldn’t have survived if we suddenly traveled to 1967 with analog displays but when you have a ship that can now get to any point of the galaxy and has everything from HUD view screens to walking holograms it feels more advanced than 24th century Trek.

And there was zero reason why the Klingon war had to be in this period. None. They could’ve done everything they are doing in a later period when the Klingon Empire simply felt they were too weak being under the Federation all this time and someone wanted to revolt. And because its not a prequel, we wouldn’t know how it would end. ;)

It’s not real, Smike. They didn’t have this tech then because we, in the 90s, didn’t have the FX tech (or budget) to do it properly.

The TOS novels talk about all sorts of futuristic tech (synthesizers, communications implants, holograms, learning Vulcan by taking a pill) that we never saw on TOS.

Maybe all this tech we’re seeing here is less advanced than TOS.

But none of that is canon Jack.

I just find this whole thing funny how people say they didn’t want to move beyond TNG because the universe would just be TOO technically saavy for any real conflicts. Now we have a show where a ship can literally transport itself anywhere in seconds, walking holograms and replicators and now everyone is just fine with it lol.

And let’s stop making excuses. TOS didn’t have technology anywhere on this level in both the show and the films. The tech we’re seeing not only goes beyond TOS it goes beyond TNG and Voyager as sell. I remember when the Kelvin films introduced personal long term transportation people freaked about it. Now that a ship can basically transport anywhere, I guess thats fine.

And for the record I like the spore drive idea (within limits) but I feel its just too advance to be here.

AdAstraPerAspera and Michael Hall, “In my head, the way I see it is that this is the TOS era shot in the style of the 21st century. All the other Starfleet ships at the time look like this- including Enterprise.” — AdAstraPerAspera Forget our heads. The current owners of the 1960’s series have shown that when the actual TV display we watch it on advances that they’ll go back and change all the old canon fx sequences regardless of what today’s canon true believers think to make it acceptable looking on those real new display platforms. This was done for today’s digital TV and in ten years when holographic television becomes the norm it will be changed again making all these current canon arguments about matching the onscreen display tech look and feel of TOS moot as it will be re-rendered to look acceptable viewed on television’s new holographic palette and if canon matching is still considered important enough to CBS’ successfully syndicating its old DISCOVERY Trek series every piece of onscreen future tech can and will be re-normalized at that time. I mean arguments about why Discovery’s digital time readouts are more advanced than the digital time readouts shown on STAR TREK on TV’s circa the 1966-1969 era are moot as CBS has already gone in and changed them. Anyone that believes in 10 years CBS wont change a thing on both TOS’s AND DISCOVERY’s onscreen displays for holographic display exhibition just plain haven’t learned from history. Canon onscreen… Read more »

There is no way they could possibly explain the canon errors. Discovery has technology that looks way more advanced than the TNG/DS9/VOY era. Unless they say Starfleet suffered some type of a disaster that downgraded their technology by a few hundred years which would but the dumbest idea ever there is no way they could possibly rectify it.

Its very simple. Its not the 60’s. And I think if you want them to explain why they have holograms, you’re going to be disappointed.

Yeah thats the problem. Its not just more advanced than TOS, its more advanced than shows that takes place a century later. Its like the writers are making a show for the 25th century but was told it had to take place in the 23rd. Kind of silly even if the show itself is interesting to watch.

Maybe this tech is actually less advanced. These crude holograms were replaced with better tech with a simplicity that belies its sophistication.

Yes its less advanced for the 24th century maybe. For the 23rd, its clearly way more advanced than anything was ever seen then.

And even then NO ONE used hologram communication like this show does.

I am SOOOO Tired of these people Lying to us Fans, they are just trying to pacify us for the run of the show so we don’t put people off then when the series ends without delivering anything promised it doesn’t matter to them anymore cause its finished.
Well we’re not that stupid.
We will say what we think- the only way around it is to change the show, fix its cannon problems or bad writing, stop insulting or intelligence & we won’t have anything to complain about.
Don’t take on Star Trek with a fandom with 50 years of history & expect us to ignore them disrespecting us & it.

@Trekboi – why are you so bitter about this? You take the time to post so much, whining about the same issue that has been explained over and over again. if its killing you this much, dont watch.

It makes sense to 99% of us.

Seriously? You feel disrespected? By a TV show. Right. The show looks how it looks and it LOOKS more advanced (but does it really) because it’s made in 2017 and not 1960’s, 80’s, 90’s, or 00’s! discussion

Obviously this was re: trekboi and not tup

Disrespect? OK. I don’t respect you. You post silliness.

They could’ve just said its a reboot. All these issues goes away. But keep saying its really ‘canon’ while presenting things that are completely outside of it does make them feel disingenuous at the very least.

As a matter of ‘canon’ I’m far more interested in, say, satisfactorily explaining the discrepancies between the Sarek seen in the pilot and the one we knew from “Journey to Babel” than trying to figure out why 23rd century starships are no longer embodied by marbles half-sunk in plywood. But that’s just me.

Do you have examples of the discrepancies you see in Sarek?

Sure. The same guy who disowns his only son for enlisting in Starfleet willingly delivers up his human ward to the same organization. He doesn’t care for Starfleet because Vulcans are pacifists who don’t believe in the use of force, yet gives Michael Burnham the “smack the Klingons on the nose first” bit of Vulcan wisdom that winds up getting her into a lot of trouble.

I can actually think of a pretty straightforward way to explain away the first issue, but am wondering if the producers will ever bother to address the second.

…and don’t forget the lack of ‘curvature’ in this new Sarek’s pointy ears!

That’s no biggie of course…because like every other discrepancy, it’s explained away for me by looking on this Sarek as being from an ‘alternative universe’. ;)

Well he actually told Michael not to use the Vulcan Hello. We also dont know if his experience with Michael and Star Fleet impacted his relationship with Spock at all.

It would seem logical for him to serve Michael’s needs as a human by making her go to Star Fleet. Perhaps she didnt want to. She seemed perfectly “Vulcan” when he dropped her off. Whereas Spock rejected Sarek and Vulcan. Maybe had Sarek known Spock would reject the Vulcan way, he’d have kept Michael.

And ultimately, we know Sarek is an a$$hole.

Michael Hall, Re: …disowns his only son for enlisting in Starfleet… That’s out of context. He disowned Spock not so much merely because he chose Starfleet but because Spock chose it OVER the Vulcan Science Academy, an opportunity that was NEVER going to be offered to Michael no matter how good she was. Sarek regarded VSA as the superior choice over Starfleet for his son. He also was simply blind to Vulcan bigotry, probably mistaking it for Vulcan pride, that made Starfleet the obvious choice for Spock. “AMANDA: You don’t understand the Vulcan way, Captain. It’s logical. It’s a better way than ours. But it’s not easy. It has kept Spock and Sarek from speaking as father and son for eighteen years. KIRK: Spock is my best officer, and my friend. AMANDA: I’m glad he has such a friend. It hasn’t been easy on Spock. Neither human nor Vulcan. At home nowhere except Starfleet. KIRK: I take it that Spock disagreed with his father on a choice of career. AMANDA: My husband has nothing against Starfleet. But Vulcans believe that peace should not depend on force. KIRK: Starfleet force is used only as a last resort. We’re an instrument of civilisation. And it’s a better opportunity for a scientist to study the universe than he can get at the Vulcan Science Academy. AMANDA: Perhaps. But Sarek wanted Spock to follow his teachings, as Sarek followed the teachings of his own father. KIRK: They are both stubborn. AMANDA: A human trait,… Read more »

Thought about it and figure at the end the spore drive could invite an alien invasion (the spore lifeform is actually one massive creature attempting to take over the galaxy) that Discovery has to lose the drive. I also think that Starfleet ships should get hit by the Klingons with some EMP blasts that fry all those fancy electronics and holograms that only the Connie’s can survive unscathed. Alternative cool concept would be in the final episode they jump across the universe and then DO NOT COME HOME. How cool would it be to see a ship have to colonize a planet and start from scratch? Set up a Federation where anything can happen (Voyager done right). It would be a little sad though since the pre-TOS/TOS Federation is such an exciting setting (just look at that cool dilithum mine last episode!)

I don’t get what’s the big deal with site to site transporting. I always assumed that they can transport to the pad, and from there to sickbay (i.e. or from anywhere to anywhere with one quick stop at the pad). That would still be much much faster than trying to take the turbolifts.

Just because you don’t see it on the screen doesn’t mean the trip is direct.

@Victorinox — of course, but the issue is that canon basically tells us 13 years later that it’s rarely done and dangerous intra-ship.

Yeah I don’t care about stuff like that. Obviously this show is retconning a lot of stuff but site to site transportation has been a main stay in most of the shows. I think that also includes Enteerprise.

But for people who do care (and its your right to care), remember this is why I hate prequels. ;)

Personally, I’m inclined to take them at their word as far as everything eventually fitting into the TOS canon. It’s only been four episodes, which gives them a lot of leeway to do so. Plus, this way I get to have all the fun of speculating as to *how* they’ll fit it in. It makes the show more enjoyable to me–especially the idea of Kang, Kor, and Koloth sweeping in and slaughtering all these dumb Klingons.

“way too advanced for the time period”

and here i thought i was supposed to be fan of a science fiction show…. *sigh* *rolls eyes*

Yes, but the writers keep saying this all suppose to fit in with TOS canon as if we don’t have eyes. If they said it was simply a reboot then I think it would all be fine. The ships could just do whatever they wanted it to do. They could have 25th technology and no one would blink. But when you try to tell people all the tech fits CURRENT canon, it feels as truthful as trying to convince us there were airplanes in the 1800s. It just doesn’t fit from what we know actually happened thats the issue, not having a more advanced sci fi show. I WANT a more advanced sci fi show in fact and why I rolled my eyes when I heard it was going back to the TOS era…again. People like me was BEGGING for the show to be placed in a later time period for this exact reason. No one would blink if this was a post-Voyager time period. But I was also proven right on this silly idea that people think because it a show took place in the 23rd century from a 60s perspective it wasn’t going to go the direction of TNG type tech. This is what gets missed over and over again, its not the time line of the show, its the era in which the show is written in and the writers who write for the show. I said countless times for months WHOEVER wrote the show was going… Read more »

If they aren’t in the Kelvin Timeline, this has to be a THIRD timeline. It is NOT a prequel to TOS…

1. The uniforms look nothing like the ones from The Cage!

2. There was no holographic communication prior to, during or after TOS.

3. The main screen is not projected onto the bridge window in any Prime Timeline incarnation, it’s simple view screen!

4. The Klingons bare no resemblence to either ENT / TNG-VOY or TOS / TOS movies. These hairless Klingons only appeared in the KT’s STID!

5. Above top secret or not, Section 31 or not. Even if this WAS a super-secret projected like the Manhattan Project, spore drives and rotating saucer sections would have eventually become mainstream tech but the time of…let’s say, the days of the Excelsior! Voyager would have gotten back home in the blink of an eye.

6. In the Primeverse, Spock doesn’t have a stepsister named Michael.

Unless this is yet another alternate reality, none of this is plausible.

You’re wrong. How many times do the people making the show have to tell you its “good old Prime” before you will accept it?

And here I was thinking SF fans were supposed to have open minds and big imaginations.

No its set in the prime timeline, they are simply retconning a lot of things from it.

I think a reboot would’ve been more appropriate though. I DON’T understand what exactly is the fear of just rebooting the show?? This was the entire reason why they set the Kelvin films in another universe because they were afraid nerds might wonder if their DVD collection disappear or something.

Just say its a reboot of TOS instead of telling us all this fits in the original TOS timeline while our eyes tell us the exact opposite. All their problems goes away.

But its good Smike all the whining over the MA rating (which I have always said would never be a big deal which so far is proving true and just watch the show and judge it then) has been replaced with something more relevant. ;)

I do consider the show to be a reboot of the Prime universe. At least in regard to modern production values and budgets. I guess I am enjoying the show because I am viewing it through a 2017 lens and not a 1966 one. Not sure how they will be able to explain visual inconsistencies with TOS. I really would hate to go from an updated look back to cardboard sets and blinking Christmas tree lights.

If we ever do get to see the Enterprise on DSC or a reboot of TOS, I hope the look is updated, but familiar as well. Just hope they don’t ever use the JJprise design. That ship is so ugly compared to the TOS movie era Enterprise.

It IS a reboot basically. Spock never had a sister. We never saw uniforms like this. Starfleet didn’t have tech this advanced in this time period. The ships look much bigger and sleeker. The Klingons look nothing like the others in any period.

And why make a show where you HAVE to explain the inconsistencies? Thats what I don’t get? THIS is why I hate prequels! If it wasn’t a prequel but a show just set much farther out there wouldn’t be any inconsistencies you even have to deal with. People got on my case about why I was so upset about having a prequel. Well, here we are. ;)

Now THAT said, I really like the show too and enjoying it a lot. But sadly, as I knew would happen, all the inconsistencies of the show would gets in the way of just enjoying the show on its own. Its too distracting. Especially now that we have spore drives and bridges the size of a small department store.

Bull and sh*t.

Insightful

I’ve said it before, but I hope they don’t do a bunch of “Now that’s why the Enterprise doesn’t do site to site transport” or “And that’s how everyone ended up in velour.”

None of this is real. And with the internet and streaming, fans are no longer the lone guardians of canon (anybody can check this stuff and watch any scene in an instant) — and most of the time, it just doesn’t matter.

You can still be mad that they changed stuff, but I think the show is doing itself a disservice to overexplain and rationalize things.

I’ve also read different sites complaining about the Elon Musk reference because, their argument goes, Musk wouldn’t have happened because of the Eugenics Wars of the 90s. A) I don’t think that is necessarily true and b) I say, Trek is based on our future. Maybe, as some novels have suggested, the Eugenics Wars happened in secret (which explains the Kardashians).

The point is, we shouldn’t be bound by every single production decisions made in 1966. It’s nice when they do acknowledge that they’ve paid attention, which this show does a lot.

I agree Jack. Enterprise did a few of those things but they at least didn’t over play why we now have such and such. I don’t mind some of it but again why I hate prequels is they spend a lot of time setting up things to stuff we already know about and usually take that opportunity to explain why its there instead of it just being there as we always known it. I’m all for some of that but I don’t want to be hit over the head with it. But SO FAR (and yes its very early) Discovery has stayed away from stuff like that for the most part but who knows what we will get as they have to start explaining why everything is so different in time.

@Jack — I agree to a point. You’d hope they’d learn from the ENT Klingon/Augment episode, and other gems that sought to retcon every wrinkle in the series canon. They should simply leave visual continuity alone.

But, where they are changing the technology, that’s a different matter. Canon may allow for intra-ship beaming, but I’d be happier with an explanation, especially since it’s a game changer. Holograms and HUDs are just cosmetic changes — the same information presented on viewscreens and consoles by production limitations in the 1960s is adapted to what we expect to see today. I wouldn’t mind a video screen on a communicator for instance. But if they’re setting something in this era, they need to play by the limitations of the era.

One of my biggest complaints about ENTERPRISE was how they started with a cargo transporter that had only recently been certified for humans, and they progressed to all kinds of TNG level antics by the 4th season. These kinds of things just feel like cheats to me. If they’re going to change canon in a way that affects how a story can be told then explain it. Otherwise it’s anachronistic to the story telling.

Curious Cadet you seem overly bothered by the site to site beaming thing but then seem to dismiss everything else as just ‘cosmetic’. No, its ALL technology that isn’t suppose to exist in this period, including the beaming thing. I don’t care about that in the least but as much as you keep harping about it then you have to see why the other stuff bothers other people. How is it anymore of a ‘game changer’ then a ship that can now quantum leap its way to any part of the galaxy in literally seconds? Its a super advanced ship, clearly it all does things no other ship is suppose to do.

@Tiger2,

“Curious Cadet you seem overly bothered by the site to site beaming thing but then seem to dismiss everything else as just ‘cosmetic’.”

Ha! I noticed that as well.

Looking at the first 4 episodes, I see no good reason, so far, why the show was set in the 23rd century. Forget about TOS for a moment, the USS Discovery is more advanced than the ships from the 24th century.

I been saying that as well Ahmed. Its not that the Discovery is more advanced than the 1701, its more advanced than the 1701-D thats really the issue for me.

As I have always said I WANT a more modern and advance show, but you can still take it too far. It would’ve made more sense to simply put this show in a post-TNG world. And remember we are only 4 episodes in. This is only the second episode we seen Discovery herself and we have already been introduced to ship teleporation (thats basically what the spore drive does end of the day), site to site beaming (thats been mentioned somewhere ;)), hologram communication and replicators. My guess is this puppy has more tricks up her sleeve we haven’t seen yet.

So should we be griping that the computer doesn’t make clicking sounds? (Although they did put in “working”).

They also don’t seem to know if they were truly respectful of “Canon” that the insignia on Starfleet uniforms in the original series is unique to each starship and the Constitution Class Enterprise’s crew Insignia only becomes universal throughout Starfleet after the completion of it’s seminal 5 year mission.

This has been debunked for months now.

Good Lord, stop with the stupid ignorant nonsense.

TUP Stupid ignorant nonsense. Only clearly made explicit in the original series,canon literature and fan series like Starship Farragut. Point is that’s just one of many ways its not canon. I’ve probably been a consumer of this franchise in its multiple forms and read stuff based on it before you even existed.So keep your troll manner in check.

In a way the new star trek series reveals everything that’s wrong with the SJW/BLM movements. Star Fleet has always had rules in place for engagement and for making peace but the main character decided she didn’t want to follow regulations because reasons and then started a war, created a mutiny, and destroyed Star Fleet property. If that doesn’t show you what would happen if these types of people were in charge of us nothing will.

Wow you’re an idiot.

W H A T ??????????

except she did nothing to start a war and did nothing to destroy Star Fleet property. She did assault her Captain though.

This show is Section 31… just look at Discovery’s designation… 1031. They have technology and an agenda that the rest of Starfleet does not have or know about. DONE!

1031 doesnt explain why the Glenn had a registry that did not include “31”.

It doesn’t have to… the point is that the producers put that easter egg in there as a hint to what is happening.

Address the deviation with a classic Trek technique: the Mighty Reset.

No Thanks. It’s okay after a single or 2-parter episode, not after a season.

Blah. I don’t trust those promises.

Also, did they care to explain how in the world a hologram can SIT on a desk/table in YOUR room?

Why do they need to explain it?

Maybe he sat on his own desk which was at the same standard desk height as Michael’s.

Mirror universe. The ship, or at least the design and technology, came from the mirror universe. I say that only because the Terran empire got a 100 year head start technologically with the capture of a Constitution class vessel in the 22nd century. They would have been able to build on that as a foundation.

Dont forget that Scotty beaned the Captain and Kang’s wife into Engineering in Day of the Dove

They are Liars. Just trying to Pacify the intelligent fans who are criticizing the show.
It is a Rebooted, Trump era mess & will be remembered as such.

“Apparent” Deviations? LOL It’s clear none of the writers have any knowledge of the Trek universe, I very much doubt any of them had even seen a single episode of any of the trek shows before starting the job.

Seems like no makeup is the norm for some on this show.

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