REVIEW: Fourth Episode of ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Feels Like Classic Trek And More

REVIEW: “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not For The Lamb’s Cry”

Star Trek: Discovery Season 1, Episode 4 – Debuted Sunday October 8th
Written by Jesse Alexander & Aron Eli Coleite
Directed by Olatunde Osunsanmi

Free from necessity of providing backstory and introductions, the fourth episode of Star Trek: Discovery breaks out as the best episode of the series yet. Mixing the right amount of character, plot, action, science and a little bit of fun, “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not For The Lamb’s Cry” also delivers the most Star Trek experience yet.

Michael Burnham gets to don a Starfleet uniform once again in “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not for the Lamb’s Cry”

[SPOILERS BELOW]

Rankless, but not witless

Like last week’s episode, the teaser reminds us that our point of view character Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) has hit rock bottom. This time it comes in the from or a synthesizer (revealed through some pretty cool FX shots of its inner workings) delivering a science uniform with “Rank: none.” And if that wasn’t enough, her morning gets worse when Sylvia “I babble a lot when I’m nervous” Tilly shows up with Captain Georgiou’s last will in the form of a persistently annoying beeping box. Mary Wiseman’s frazzled roommate routine provides some good levity, but there is still an emotional punch to this opening. Burnham’s redemption has a long way to go, and she is still haunted by her former captain.

Through the prism of Burnham, we see a lot of character development in this episode, not just with Tilly. Having Burnham and Saru back together and bantering and bickering throughout the episode is a welcome return to the early parts of the premiere. “My ganglia remain unconvinced,” is such a great Star Trek line. The relationship seems to take one step forward and two steps back as Burnham shows she is not beyond manipulating her old shipmate. We also learn that even though Saru is ready to defend his captain, he doesn’t exactly trust Lorca either. So, comparing Burnham to Lorca was a sick Kelpian burn with Doug Jones continuing to delight in overt and subtle ways. 

Lorca’s ticking colony

While he isn’t the main character of the show, Captain Lorca continues to dominate through an energetic performance by Jason Isaacs with more layers of mystery and menace woven throughout the episode. He is a man with a mission to win a war at any cost. Risk may be Starfleet’s business, but Lorca continues to push it to the point of recklessness. However, even though Lorca is like no Starfleet captain we know, Isaacs, and writers Jesse Alexander and Aron Eli Coleite, never have us not believe he is the real deal.

To Lorca, the tardigrade captured in the last episode is just another weapon of war to be studied. And he doesn’t bat an eye at lying to Admiral Cornwell, if it will get him into the fight he so desperately desires. With the Klingons attacking a critical dilithium mine, Lorca gets a ticking clock. And, he uses the cries of the besieged residents of Corvan II to manipulate a crew of eggheads to get into his game after they let him down either through their battle readiness, or the ship’s first failed jump that nearly landed the Discovery in a star.   

Landry’s stupid pet trick

All this pressure seems to crack Lorca’s apparent sole ally on the ship, Commander Landry. Rekha Sharma really doesn’t have much to work with as this one-note character barrels forward pushing Burnham to ignore her curiosity and turn that poor tardigrade into a weapon. The previous episode left us with some promise that this character might have something going on, but in the end she ends up just a hard-ass and glorified red shirt as she inexplicably releases the creature. Although with “It’s amazing how much I hate Vulcan proverbs,” she did get in one good jab before becoming a chew toy. No one will shed a tear for Landry who didn’t seem to fit into Starfleet and her main purpose may be to now completely isolate Lorca as a warrior alone on a ship of nerds.

Sure you want to open that door? You do remember you named this thing Ripper right?

Stamets needs a doctor

Discovery is taking advantage of the long-arc structure of the series to give characters time to develop and to bring in new characters along the way. Stamets began as a somewhat stereoptypical gruff scientist in episode 3, but in episode 4 we see him progress as Burnham was able to deal with the astro-mycologist on his level. Sonequa Martin-Green and Anthony Rapp really dig in on some dueling techno-babbling that does get a bit tedious, then again, that is a Star Trek tradition. Burnham apparently wins when all Stamets has left is lamenting “I always wanted to converse with my mushrooms.”

We also finally got to meet Dr. Culber (Wilson Cruz) and his impressive sickbay which was both full of high tech equipment, yet still had a good number of touches from The Original Series, even down to the sounds of the bed monitors. The romantic relationship between Stamets and Culber was only hinted at in this episode, with Rapp and Cruz showing great chemistry, helped along by their long-time real-world friendship.

The spores must flow

While the plot of the episode focused on the fate of Corvan II, the heart of the episode was about the tardigrade in Lorca’s menagerie. The captain and Landry only saw something that was able to kill Klingons with ease and they want in. But Burnham, the same character that mutinied so she could fire first at the Klingons in the premiere, shows her inner xeno-anthropologist and takes a questionable leap that there is more to this creature. This sparring between Landry and Burnham was clunky at times, but the classic themes of Star Trek shone through with the lesson that you should not be so quick to judge others by outward appearances.

The turn with the tardigrade echoed many past Treks, notably “Devil in the Dark.” What was just a monster chasing and eating crew members in episode 3 becomes a creature of sympathy and understanding in episode 4. OK, “Ripper” also took out Landry in episode 4, but that’s no big loss. The tardigrade also becomes a metaphor for Burnham herself, maligned, underestimated and misunderstood. And, importantly to Lorca and the plot, it also proves essential to making the Spore Drive actually function. It may be all a bit too obvious, but it still works.

But, even with everyone rejoicing at the success, we get a hint that the story of Ripper is not over. Discovery continues to telegraph its punches by showing us that the tardigrade doesn’t seem too happy in its new job. And so far only Burnham seems to notice. There is a good chance the reason this instant-jumping via shroom-tech was only used on the USS Discovery is that the only way to make it work is through enslaving a possibly sentient creature to act as navigator. Obviously Lorca won’t bat an eye at that ethical issue, but the Starfleet we know in the 23rd and 24th century doesn’t seem likely to agree.

This doesn’t seem like fun for Ripper

That escalated quickly

The pacing of episode 4 really picks up from the previous entries and even at times seems a bit rushed, but that may be part of the point in order to push the tension. Not long after killing Landry we have Ripper in the reaction chamber hooked up and ready to play Guild Navigator for the USS Discovery. And whammo, the ship and its spinning saucer sections are at Corvan II. That’s right, the gaps in the ship’s saucer spin around and get rid of excess energy when the ship goes to Ludicrous Speed

Lorca finally gets a chance to kill some Klingons. Still refusing to sit in the throne chair in the back of the bridge, he commands his crew from the front and if he gets any closer to the viewscreen, he may need to replace his already-damaged eyes. The battle was short with the USS Discovery saving the day by luring the Klingons in and Shroom-driving out at the last minute with a present or two for the Klingons left behind. It all seemed to go by too fast, buttoned by corny moment with a child looking up at the sky and wondering who saved them, while dad was probably wondering why the only available Starfleet ship just left this key installation full of suffering people alone with no other protection.

The USS Discovery gets ready to drop the mic

Lady L’Rell

“The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not For The Lamb’s Cry” also brought back the Klingons, who were absent from episode 3. This time the story of T’Kuvma’s remaining crew, struggling in the graveyard of ships left after the Battle of the Binary Stars, was its own little mini-episode. While a show like Game of Thrones deftly pulls off these jumps around the universe, it feels a bit of a mismatch here and perhaps they could have found a way to tie the two plot lines together.

The Klingon scenes still drag, but were an improvement over the premiere. The endless speechifying is done and Mary Chieffo stands out as being able to add levels of intrigue and nuance with her performance as L’Rell. There are a lot of parallels between L’Rell and Burnham, and while their plots were not linked this episode, there were thematic parallels. Both are haunted by the loss of their former commanders. And both had to make key choices this episode on which path to follow. Burnham chose science and Stamets over Lorca. L’Rell chose faith and Voq (Javid Iqbal) over Kol (Kenneth Mitchell).  

Chieffo was even able to work through all the makeup and language to convey a hint of romance and sensuousness with Voq. Although at this point it isn’t clear if the feelings are genuine or if she is manipulating Voq towards some other unseen agenda. Does she believe T’Kuvma is the Klingon Jesus like Voq, or is she working for her former House of Matriarchs? There is certainly a hint of Lady MacBeth with L’Rell and this character appears likely to play a key role as the season progresses. It would not be surprising to find Burnham and L’Rell being the ones who put an end to the war in episode 15. Although if they are to become allies, it may be best for L’Rell to not mention how they ate Captain Georgiou.

Get a room you two

Stay curious my friend

After saving the day with science Burnham – and with a nice little pep talk from a more relaxed Tilly – Burnham is finally able to open the last will and testament box from Captain Georgiou. For those who had “recording” for how Michelle Yeoh will return to Discovery in your fan pool, congratulations. Yeoh nails an emotional scene with Georgiou imagining Burnham has her own command and wants to remind her to keep exploring.

More than any other character in Discovery, Georgiou embodies all the hope and optimism that we viewers love about Star Trek, making her death in the premiere all the harder to bear for Burnham and the audience. Giving her telescope to her former first officer reconnects these characters. Without saying a word, Martin-Green shows us how this message sets the foundation for the rebuilding of the broken Burnham.

Like Kirk at the end of Wrath of Khan as he mourns for his friend Spock, Burnham can also see the hope. And this episode as a whole conveys that same hope for this new Star Trek series. It’s new and different and not always firing on all thrusters, but “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not For The Lamb’s Cry” fills me with that same hope for what is to come next for Star Trek: Discovery.  

Michelle Yeoh’s return doesn’t leave a dry eye in the house

Random thoughts

  • Namedropping for this episode: Elon Musk, Zefram Cochrane, Tellarites, and a Zaphod (presumably a nod to Beeblebrox).
  • Corvan II was also from a mention on an episode of TNG.
  • While the story is in the Prime universe, the music and direction is still being beamed in from the Kelvin universe.
  • The “zoom to the bridge” thing is getting overused already.
  • So, someone went on board the Shenzhou to get Gerogiou’s telescope?
  • Who is taking bets that this isn’t the last time we will see Michelle Yeoh, this is Star Trek after all.
  • If you haven’t caught on yet, Lorca’s catchphrase is “Go!” Rather ironic considering that, when Lieutenant Detmer engages the Spore Drive, the button on the console literally says “engage.”

Engage the spore drive

 


Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusive in the US on CBS All Access with new episodes released Sundays at 8:30 pm ET. In Canada Star Trek: Discovery airs on the Space Channel at 8:00 pm ET. Discovery is available on Netflix outside the USA and Canada with new episodes made available Monday at 8 am BST.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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235 Comments on "REVIEW: Fourth Episode of ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Feels Like Classic Trek And More"

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The cg alien was so fake for me. That was a disappointment. It just looks too animated, cartoonish. I think they could have done a better job with that… but an Ok episode overall!

Disney & Lelo want Stitch back.

I used to say the same thing about Odo and the effects from The Abyss. Shows need to be careful of some of the things they try to do.

I dunno what y’all are talking about, I think it looked great.

So honestly, you found the alien a good cgi creation?
I found it too cartoonish.

I found the Alien Neomorpth in the recent Alien film quite poor though. The alien in Alien (1979) is lot scarier in my opinion!

What ?! Looked great to me. But the whole spore thing reminds me of dune.

Same thing I thought. Kept thinking about the Third Stage Navigators and melange.

I think there is a fundamental problem with CG in that something in our brains doesn’t really believe what it’s seeing because deep down we KNOW it’s not actually there with the actors. It’s the same with the ships. With models and puppets our brains find it easier to believe. That’s how I feel anyway….

Ludicrous speed! Hah! Klingon Jesus? Lol! This is the funniest article I’ve ever read on Trekmovie. Thanks.

Yep
Nailed it too on the guild navigator spice creatures.
Total ripoff.

Yeah, Guild Navigators were what I thought of too.

The spore must flow.

The creature navigator was reminiscent of that albino Andorian from Enterprise.

I got shivers all over me when the Klingons mentioned they had actually eaten Captain Georgiou, I thought it was just over-violent. I am starting to really like L’Rell and she definitely has ulterior motives. The creature controlling the ship was definitely taken from the guild ships in Dune. I also got really sad when I saw the creature in pain while it was controlling the ship. They were definitely going for a “Devil in the Dark” vibe.

Kind of felt over the top at first, part of that “edgy” feel they’re going for with this show. But then they mentioned they were marooned (or whatever) for 6 months, or something? I later figured it was a survival thing, and not just “hey, we’re eating humans now!”

@Fortyseven — I’m actually OK with it, either way. For starters, we’re dealing with a completely different Klingon sect than we have ever seen before — on which straps the dead bodies of its clan onto the hull of their ship. Second, there’s all kinds of graphic imagery in the Klingons created during TNG, including eating the hearts of enemies. The idea that this completely different House of apparently isolated Klingons participate in traditional Klingon rituals, which may well have involved eating the entire bodies of their enemies is not a problem for me. Let’s see where they take it. I for one love these Klingons, and I haven’t really enjoyed stories about Klingons since TMP.

I always wondered if Klingons would ever do something like this since more and more they talked about how they liked their meat raw.

Cool. They are places on earth where cannibalism still exists. Remember that Rugby team that crashed in the alps back in the 70s…they made a movie called Alive…well…the survivors of that plane crash had to eat the dead to stay alive. Yummy.

It very well could be they ate her as they were very very low on supplies and food.

Well they were starving so it makes sense.

It made sense that the Klingons might think eating their enemy as a way of “absorbing their strength and spirit”.

It is not unheard of in some tribal cultures here on Earth.

Klingons eating their enemy isn’t anything new, and infact it was not uncommon for certain warrior races on our planet to do the same.

Man up and face it.. The Klingons are nasty… We have to stop them whatever the cost! ;)

That’s kinda how I look at it too. It drives home even more why as a Starfleet officer, they would be the alien species to really strike fear in the heart of everyone.

TOS spent plenty of time hitting on the point the Klingons were butchers, loathed and feared. They didn’t earn that reputation because of their horticultural skills….

Still they never mentioned canabalism until now. There are also many ways to earn a reputation. Not all of it may be through things that actually happen. TOS also made a point to say that the Federation and the Klignons didn’t know each other as well as they thought they did. However I get where you are coming from.

@Steph — is it cannibalism if you aren’t eating your own species?

I think so.

Agreed.

Cannibalism isn’t new for Klingons. I think Kor mentioned “feasting” on the heart of one of his enemies in an episode of DS9. Perhaps it’s something that TOS era Klingons did but 24th century ones perhaps don’t care for anymore? My Granny used to eat Tripe sandwiches and that’s something you don’t see these days!

Yeah. I agree. The Klingons eating their foes was indeed over the top. I don’t recall any mention of Klingons doing that but I guess that doesn’t preclude them not doing it.

Still processing this one. I liked most of it but felt it stumbled a bit from Episode 3. I really like what they are doing with Lorca. I find him the most intriguing character so far. Has a bit of the same vibe as the Governor from the Walking Dead and really can’t wait to see where things go with him. A flawed but real Captain is very cool to see. I’m really struggling with the Klingons at this point. Not digging their new look and the long dialogue scenes. Still, it’s great to have Trek on every week again!!!

@TrekFan1973 — to me, this is a look at another side of Starfleet, for instance, life aboard the Constellation, or the Exeter — ships where the Captain isn’t as strong and dedicated as Kirk, or at least process things differently. ANd therefore, it’s not centered on the captain, but rather a junior office who is learning some important lessons about life, as she tries to apply striict Vulcan logic. In many ways it’s “The Galileo Seven” on a much greater scale.

Yeah Lorca is very intriguing. Every time he’s on screen I’m completely glued like I was with Picard. But this guy obviously has tons of secrets and very flawed. I can’t WAIT until we get his back story. And yes he could actually be a Section 31 operative. Thats not out of the cards yet.

And I agree about the Klingons. They still haven’t won me over and the looooong dialogue scenes feel more of a chore for me to get through. But I’m curious to see where their story will go.

Lorca is also one of the things that make me want to keep watching as I love how morally gray he is. You never quite know where he is going to go. Although I found the decision to have him play the crying from Corvan II, to motivate the crew cliche, he still stood out to me in this episode. Which when you consider how the marketing kept saying he is unlike any captain before him…I was surprised to see a lot of Sisko in him. Especially from my favorite episode, In the Pale Moonlight. Where we see Sisko existing in this morally gray area and then trying to figure out how to live with his decisions.

As for the Klignons I think my big problem is that other than L’Rell, no other characters have really popped for me. I hope she gets a better storyline that what she has had so far. Her acting through the makeup is good and I like how she is one step ahead of even Voq. You can tell she is manipulating him for her own purposes.

Agreed. L’rell…really loving her. Those eyes. And the long Klingon dialogue is very good. I like it. Doesnt bore me.

Another assessment I agree with. I am now finding Lorca interesting. And the Klingon scenes are indeed a bit on the tiresome side. I get to. They are speaking a made up language. Can we please get them speaking English? Do something like they did in Hunt for Red October.

I’m also curious… the last two shows have been about 50 minutes. I’m wondering if on the Space Channel in Canada if the show is being shown in its entirety or if it is edited to fit the time slot. Anyone?

Their look is awesome. Very alien…which they should be.

I can see what they are trying to do with the Klingon Language but I find reading the subtitles means I’m missing a lot of what the actors are doing. As for the look I think they have basically made them in to Ghoulish looking monsters. Old Klingons were more relatable but these are very much more Alien. Not sure if that’s good or bad yet – might have been better to create a new Species – such as an off shoot for example??

On what planet was this episode more like Star Trek It’s painful to watch this show it is the worst version of Star Trek ever I thought into darkness was bad well. If you say typical old Trekkie is well I’m 16 and I’d rather watch reruns of Next Generation DS9, Voyager and Enterprise and The Original

Well, there’s a simple solution. Don’t watch it. Ignore it.

Great come back. Very well thought out. You must have been on a debate team.

And yet you still felt the need to open an article and comment on it.

If it is too painful for you, there is a way to alleviate the pain. Granted this is a holistic and highly experimental treatment, but you may try not watching the show, do not read reviews about the show or comment on it. Since the show is painful to you and causing you harm I think if you follow this strict regimen, you may, again I stress MAY be able to get through life relatively pain free. God bless you in your suffering, I hope this helps you some.

@Paul I was a 16-year-old Trek fan once, and I was pretty darned passionate. What don’t you like about it?

I’m enjoying it so far, but I didn’t love this episode.

Paul in all honesty, and I like the show, I can certainly understand why its more divisive for some people. This was always going to be a very different Trek show from the others and why I am on board so far. I like how it tries to present characters in a different light. It feels more like DS9 on that level where everyone is not totally likable, not totally trust each other or even wants to be there. But we know that will probably change.

I’m not going to be as snarky about it as others, if you don’t like it fine. Its not for everyone. It IS a different Star Trek. Discovery is not about exploration, it is about war. That can’t be denied. THAT said though we know the war story line is for one season. Things may change drastically by the end of this season. All I can say is wait and see. The show is very new. A year from mow we may all have a very different take from it for better or worse.

But yes if its not your thing you have 700 hour of other Trek to watch. I always reminded people of that who hated the Kelvin films and complained those didn’t feel like real Star Trek to them either. Sadly I don’t think the fan base will ever agree on what is ‘real Star Trek’ ever again.

Don’t Feed the troll. This looks like a copy paste from the comment on every YouTube music video that says “I’m just *young* years old but this music today is garbage. What happened to the good music from the *past* like *insert classic music group*

Agreed. This Trek is different and welcomed by those with progressive minds.

You know Paul, those TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and TOS episodes still exist. Enjoy ’em. :)

Well, being 16, you would probably prefer Orville with it’s generic sets, juvenile humor and TNG spoofing. Just saying…

at least the orville had one episode with relevant social commentary (ep 3) and a cool sci-fi idea in the dark matter storm (ep 5),not to mention charlize…on the other hand spore drive and discovery twirling in space?the dumbest head of security of all time?the orville is campy and didnt cost that much to make and although a rip off it is still better than dsc.why do people think putting more money in star trek will make it better?it does not, never has…also age has nothing to do with having a valid opinion its something older people use that have no arguments.

Charlize Theron looked as though she didn’t even want to be there when she guest starred on Orville.

Who would have thought that the head of security could end up being a candidate for a Darwin Award? STD has done a piss poor job introducing its characters and has as far as I am concerned given me NO reason to care about any of them. On the last episode, they destroy the ships that are attacking then leave without offering any kind of assistance. No help taking care of the wounded at all. What a dick move. That is not at all Starfleet.

Unless, of course, your ultimate goal is to win the war. In this case, you want to keep your secret weapon, secret. The Klingons knew they were attacking Corvan II. If reports came back that the USS Discovery popped in out of nowhere, easily dispatched three Warbirds, then disappeared, the secret would be out and the Discovery a target. Having the colonists not know what came to their assistance, and having no information to communicate to the Klingon Command, is a HUGE benefit to Starfleet and the Discovery. If you want to doubt the effectiveness of that strategy and whether or not such a move is “Starfleet”, I’d ask you to watch “The Imitation Game”, where the struggle on whether or not to use information decoded by the broken Enigma cypher was a huge matter of debate for the Allies in World War II. Use too much information, and save too many lives, even the lives of an entire civilian transport, and the secret that Enigma was decoded would be lost. Given that information, the Allies allowed many attacks, even those that would lead to massive civilian casualties, to occur just to keep the breaking of Enigma a secret. That was REAL, and was done by the Americans and Allies, in order to WIN the war. It wasn’t a dick move… it was the right decision. Captain Lorca, as a student of military history, would also understand this. So… even though there were injured and wounded at the mining colony,… Read more »

obvious troll is obvious

@Jenegoddenberry stupid is as stupid does.

Sybock\'s Other Brother

Agreed.

You are stuck in the past. This is Trek. Many gave TNG crap when it launched in the 80s and it won the majority over. Discovery is just getting started. Give it a season or two before passing judgement or just go watch reruns of the other series.

you sound like you’re 16 alright. But please keep throwing money away on your CBSAA subscription for this show you hate so much. You’ll be doing the rest of us a favor!

I’m kind of curious where characters like Lorca and Landry come from, in universe (where they involved in other conflicts before this war? Does Starfleet have a hawkish streak?) and how, in just six months of this war, they’ve been given carte blanche to do anything to win. It would help (and I may have missed this) if we had a sense of what impact this war actually has on the Federation. Is it a full-on war? Are the Klingons regularly attacking federation outposts? Or are they just trying to avoid another asskicking like at the BOTBS?

These characters probably came from the same place as Tasha Yar and Edward Jellico. I don’t think this is new to Discovery.

Tasha Yar was never as belligerent as the discovery senior staff and Jellico, while definitely similar to Lorca in temperament, was a veteran of the cardassian war. These characters are too young to be veterans of the romulan war, so where did they get such aggressive attitudes?

@Dude — I’d argue Yar may not have come off as belligerent, if only because Denise Crosby wasn’t able to pull it off, and certainly not from a lack of trying on her part. The character certainly had the background to warrant it. We have no idea what Landry’s background was, but I’m willing to bet we might find out. Perhpas she was a survivor of an abusive childhood like Yar. Or perhaps it’s as simple as She served on a vessel at Axinar under Captain Garth. Or maybe she’s just a hawkish hothead who took that required reading of Garth’s tactics to heart, and has a lot of swagger Lorca lets her strut — there’s a reason he picked her after all. Indeed, I’ve known many a present day Marine who could be real asses to people, more so to anybody under their command.

Actually I doubt we’ll really find anything else about Landry at this point.

Nor do I care to. Being that they killed her in such a stupid manner, before she could develop, she’s nothing but a 2D character that’s not worth revisiting.

Yeah not sure why if they were going to kill her off so soon we didn’t learn more about her. These senseless deaths make most people feel indifferent to them leaving.

There were still other conflicts. One can presume Lorca made an impact in those conflicts and thus was given this command. He also lied to the admiral so it’s not like he can truly do anything he wants or he wouldn’t have lied.

He’s probably somewhat boastful.

Ever heard of section 31?

I really don’t care for the title of this episode. Trying a bit too hard, perhaps? A little pretentious for my taste.

Read all the TOS titles. Most were like this.

I tend to complain about lazy, single-word titles, but this is going in the opposite extreme. ;)

For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky

The City on the Edge of Forever

Looking for Par’Mach in all the Wrong Places

Wrongs Darker than Death or Night

It’s not exactly a new thing, here.

“For the World is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky”

Admittedly, there were numerous episode titles that had what I can only call a poetic/Shakespearean “slant” but “For The World Is Hollow…” makes more sense and evokes a more specific image than “The Butcher’s Knife Cares Not…” in my opinion.
It would be interesting to see a poll of fans’ favorite episode titles, hm?

The episode title is referring to the needles of the interface device stabbing Ripper when they use the Spore Drive.

Like everything else Alex Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman touch, the title was picked because it sounds cool. In this case, it works out that it does indeed have a Shakespearian weight to it. Even if the title is super abstract and requires some thinking on the viewers’ part.

“It all seemed to go by too fast, buttoned by corny moment with a child looking up at the sky and wondering who saved them, while dad was probably wondering why the only available Starfleet ship just left this key installation full of suffering people alone with no other protection.”

Ha. Yeah. Maybe other Starfleet ships were already on the way (but couldn’t get there fast enough to stop the Klingons), but who knows? And maybe other Klingons were on the way. Yeah, this ship doesn’t seem to have much use for procedure. I get that it’s a magic secret weapon ship and Lorca’s a loose cannon, but…

And my response to the, “We’re sending a message to the Klingons,” (or whatever the line was) before they vanished and left behind the explosiony-things was, “Nobody’s alive to pass that message on.”

Discovery did the job, its top secret and the rumour will get to the Klingon Empire as the outpost is VITAL to the federation. Discovery destroyed all the Klingon ships, its job is to fight and win, This is a different Trek, its hard and bleak as there is a war to win.

Other ships will take care of the outpost, Discovery has other missions to carry out.

Agreed…

This was definitely the most Star Trek episode of Discovery yet. New life is sought out, life that reminds me a bit of Stranger Things, and that makes me worry about that life’s fate. The crew has settled into a more comfortable groove where they can work together. They’re a little less on edge. And we get a bit more of a peek into what regular life on the ship is like. Stamets in particular is far less curt this time around. Even Lorca seems reasonable, compared to Landry. He’s results oriented, even if the results clash with his preconceived notions. We get the first hints at Stamets and Culber’s relationship, though only in the playfully bad bedside manner a long-term couple might use to tease each other. Even the Klingons get to have some banter, reminiscent of what the type of thing DS9 would show amongst Cardassians or Ferengi just hanging out. I bet more than a few fans out there are kind of shipping Voq and L’Rell. I’m not sure I am, but they sure seem to be devoted to each other and dig the way the other is a bit of an outcast among Klingons. Their conversation reveals some particularly gruesome implications a bit far beyond what we’ve seen before with Klingons, but oddly not beyond what’s been implied of Ferengi, before their formal first contact with the Federation. This is by far the best episode yet, though I wonder how much that impression is colored by… Read more »

That explains the saucer design. And likely explains how they will end the spore drive, by choosing not to enslave an alien creature to make it work.

This, pretty much. Feels like Equinox from Voyager, really.

It does!

I’m now starting to wonder if they got the very idea to this from Voyager? I mean Brian Fuller worked directly on that show and while he didn’t write Equinox he was around during that time.

@Tiger2,

Joe Menosky, one of the writers/producers on ‘Discovery’, co-wrote ‘Equinox’.

BOOM! I think you just nailed it Ahmed. Wow I had no idea Menosky wrote that episode. I think we just found our smoking gun how this idea got on Discovery.

Imagine what would happen if whole saucer ring sections were rotating, and not only their top and bottom platings :)

Wish I could agree with this review, but for me it’s the most problematic episode of Discovery thus far, with the character work in this case not able to make up for plot issues and gaps in story logic, the complete waste of Rehka Sharma, and a few odd production choices. The Saru/Burnham interaction was fine, Jason Isaacs once again dominates every scene he’s in (and his playing the distress call over the ship’s P.A. to shame his crew into action shows a character who isn’t interested in mollycoddling the people who work for him), and it’s nice that they toned Anthony Rapp down a little, as that level of hostility towards the show’s lead might have gotten old real fast (that said, I sure hope they don’t become best buddies overnight). Michelle Yeoh’s cameo was fine taken by itself, but it really felt like a holdover from last week’s show that was cut for time, and its lack of even a thematic relevance in this one recalls the worsst of early TNG’s A Plot/B Plot syndrome. I’m assured by people in a previous thread that the tardigrade’s distress at being drafted as a starship navigator was obvious; if so, my bad for missing it. But I still believe that such an important plot point could have been made more clearly. Cutting some time from the Klingon material to do just that would have been worthwhile IMO. Those scenes just drag on too long for my taste, and Kol is… Read more »
I think the tardigrade’s whimpers when it was in the spore booth and Burnham’s worried expressions were supposed to tip us off to the creature’s distress, though I agree that the CG was dodgy and Burnham’s expressions were almost too subtle. I thought the creature was in pain, but wasn’t 100% sure myself until the preview for next week where they followed up on that very issue. I found the episode uneven. Some parts – the whole subplot about how Burnham figures out that the tardigrade is not really a threat – felt like Trek with strong Devil in the Dark vibes (and more than a passing resemblance to the guild navigators from Dune). Lorca continues to be a fascinating character and one I cannot pinpoint exactly as to where he’ll end up (unlike the one-dimensional Landry). Stamets interactions with Burnham are becoming an interesting evolution and I’ll be curious to see where they end up. Landry on the other hand must go down as one of the stupidest Trek characters ever put to film. She was incredibly dim-witted, even for a security officer, conveniently forgetting her training and past experience with the creature. I can understand why Lorca would not be the ideal representative of the Federation but Landry’s demise could be seen coming from clear across the quadrant, and she completely deserved it. That whole scene could have been written much better. The episode’s Klingon subplot also didn’t feel thoroughly thought out to me; specifically, why would the… Read more »

I’ll split the difference with you: yea on Enterprise, nay on DS9. Discovery is certainly far better than either series straight out of the gate, but has a long way to go to match DS9 at its best IMO.

This episode was all over the place. I still don’t know that the writers have a handle on Burnham, the Klingon scenes are beyond slow (and they ATE Michelle Yeoh? Jesus!), the balance between introducing character conflict and regulars just being petty/nasty is not being tightroped with much dexterity, the tardigrade plot is a straight-up rip from Voyager’s “Equinox,” the Corvan 2 scenes were corny and Landry’s death was poorly set up.
Suddenly, I’m worried again about Bryan Fuller being gone and whether or not I’d really want to see this crew persist for another season versus resetting everything for pastures new in an anthology.

It’s been mentioned several times that Klingons eat their dead enemies.

Was that telescope THE telescope from the Schenzhou? Cause….ummm that’s weird. If we’re to believe Starfleet visited the ship they’d have surely taken the dilithium thing. And blew the ship up. Must have been a different telescope. It looked smaller

They probably had enough time to grab a few personal effects before they went to the escape pods. It wouldn’t surprise me if Saru grabbed it, knowing how important it was to the Captain.

It can’t be the same telescope. Voq or L`Rell (I forget which one) touched the Shenzhou telescope when they were in Georgiou’s ready room.

I was wrong about the telescope. It was just the telescope mount in the ready room. TrekMovie, feel free to delete my posts on the topic.

They left behind valuable technology but grabbed the telescope? Why didn’t they start the self-destruct sequence? They could have come back and blowed it up. Then there was the crew manifest floating around for anyone to access. What happened to security clearances?

Discovery keeps getting better.

I love the fact that this isn’t Star Trek as I know it. It feels… evolved, vital, topical. My issue with Enterprise was how it was stale right out of the gate, clinging to a formula that had grown stale with Voyager. Discovery is what’s Star Trek should be in 2017.

Sonequa is such a compelling lead. I’m a little in love with her if I’m honest. She owns every scene she’s in- just as Jason does.

Discovery has defied my every expectation. This is prestige TV.

I agree with this. Discovery is the DS9 for its time in many ways. Its why I’m excited about the show even if I’m still not on board with all of it.

1. The zoom to the bridge thing is awesome.
2. Lorca is awesome.
3. Equinox 1 and 2 were awesome. And so is this new series!

Thank you. Finally someone who at least likes the series. I mean its not perfect…But all the complaining, whichever comment section i open… The best thing is: When you give a look at FB articles about Discovery, there are nearly always a lot of likes (and they are in the majority over dislikes). But when you open the comment secion, there are over 90% people complaining and verbalizing their hatred about the series… I guess they went on the same way when their mommies took away their pacifiers…”MOOOOMMYYYY I WANT IT BAACK I WANT IT BAAACK!!!”

I have read through all the comments and there seems to be a LOT of hating TNG fan boys. This new series is different and has a fresh approach. Love it.

I’m a TNG fan boy and really like the show. But I have liked all of them. It took me around to come around to Enterprise but I really like that one too.

For ME what I love about Trek is that its all different from each other. TOS isn’t TNG. TNG isn’t DS9. DS9 isn’t Voyager and so on. For Trek to grow and evolve it can’t be stale and just clinging onto the same tropes as before. I don’t want another TOS or TNG. I can rewatch those reruns when I want. A fresh approach is what Trek needs. I hate they did yet another prequel but it feels so different its really only a prequel in name only basically.

Yeah, I mean sure, I grumble about things I don’t like on DSC. I do feel like (as with every Star Trek series in their first season) it’s uneven and has issues to iron out. But I’m a TNG fanboy that does like this series so far. And I’ve said as much, most of the times I’ve expressed displeasure with something. I like the show, I give props where I think there should be, and I complain about what I didn’t like. I try to be even about it, while realizing that Star Trek got stale towards the end of Berman’s run and that TV is radically different in 2017.

Agreed!

Discovery jumps in for the rescue and jumps out. Not helping the injured. Discovery clearly needs to remain a secret. Still get that section 31 vibe!

Agreed. There was no orbiting the planet and a captain log explaining the mission watching the people get help like you would have on TOS or TNG. This ship is clearly meant to stay out of view. Go in and out. I smell Section 31 too.

My take from another thread… I guess with all the behind-the-scenes drama it’s not surprising the quality of this show, from episode to episode is uneven I really enjoyed last week’s installment, but this week….well, not as excruciatingly painful as the first episode, but I definitely have issues with it. Again, we’re forced to try and engage with cookie-cutter Klingons, spitting out muffled Klingonese through poorly fitted dentures. Of course, any acting, that may actually bring a connection between the audience and individual Klingons, is rendered null and void by pounds of putty, stilted staccato delivery of dialog along long stretches of subtitles that takes my eyes off of the acting to begin with. I’m still no fan of these Klingons. spoilers ahead. Sigh…More inner-ship beaming, again disregarding the precedent set in day of the Dove. The ridiculous “jump’” effect of the ship looks like something straight out of Looney Tunes. Since this means of “popping” in, anywhere in the galaxy, didn’t survive into the future, we can only surmise that Starfleet never perfected the complicated navigation necessary. Thank goodness. Burnham’s stale delivery of dialog was particularly noticeable this week. Outside of the welcome TOS sound fx…I didn’t much care for the new sickbay. Doesn’t seem to be designed in a way that lends itself to very creative direction. Kind of boring, actually. The doc? I’m indifferent at this point. I’ll have to see more. I do like the white uniform, though…it’s the first one I think actually looks good…shades… Read more »

Obvious that Lorca – Burnham – Saru are the troika of this Trek (and a great one, at that). This is ‘Prickly Trek’, but that’s OK. Landry will be missed because this is Starfleet at war. No one else other than Lorca now seems to have their heart in it. The JJ-verse films will need to up their game after Discovery; no more breweries-as-Engneering! And they’ll need compelling stories, too!

I sadly think the JJ films are done. Maybe another will come around but who knows when?

After how (the ironically best JJ-Trek film) Beyond underperformed, it’ll be very surprising if JJ-Trek 4 gets made.

This isn’t Star Trek. Star Trek is just gone for me. I wouldn’t want to live in this world they are fumbling with. The characters are hollow, the pacing is for ADHD sufferers and those too jaded to enjoy the world due to saturation of other science fiction shows. I found myself scrubbing through a show I was looking forward to seeing for years and not smiling. I was actually sighing out loud. Not sad, just disappointed. Ah, Spock investigates V’ger, but with Martin-Green. AH, the prison scene from Into Darkness, but with Martin-Green. AH, BattleStar Galactica’s Starbuck, but with Martin-Green. Ah, Klingons, but like all JJ Klingons, they talk and they talk… but they have no Guramba. (google Nausicaans) The characters are created around pleasing SJW’s sensibilities. Does anyone really care about their backgrounds or stories? The viking Klingons, drinking blood wine and hoping to die an honourable death while raising some Gre’thor and keeping things alive, are now generic Voldemort clones, with Martin-Green. The world is vague, like small fractured islands of things we recognise. Oh look a tribble. Oh look a site-to-site transport. I’m more aware of the writer’s attempts to “push the franchise in a new and exciting… blah blah” than actually giving the characters some chemistry, and the starships.. some character. A mushroom drive? I was happier with magic crystals thanks. The shiitake manueover? The uniforms follow the thinking of this new sci-fi show; bland, unimaginative attempts to revamp, update and take it in a… Read more »

@Lostree — “The viking Klingons, drinking blood wine and hoping to die an honourable death while raising some Gre’thor and keeping things alive”

You just described everything I hated about TNG in that one sentence.

yep CC me too. They beat that to death. This, however, beats the dialogue to death. The first scene can be in Klingon and then fuse to English. Not too much to ask.

Nooo! Samurai Viking Biker Klingons were totally heavy metal!
Even though it’s always been hard to fight the feeling that they barked a lot more than they bit. After all, the instances in which Klingons (not just Worf, mind you!) got their butts handed to them in hand-to-hand combat with some other, presumably “weaker”, species probably outweighed those in which Klingons were stayed true to their (unwarranted?) reputation 10 to 1.
But that was also the fun about it, wasn’t it?
Oh well. But why cry over spilt milk. I guess I’ll just have to grow accustomed to cannibalistic (okay, technically it’s not really cannibalism if the devoured individual belongs to a different species) Nosferatu Death Cult Klingons…
But I’d still be very displeased if, in addition to their more “adult-oriented” attitude, they’d also start with backstabbing and other utterly unlikeable behaviour.

Same here! The TNG Klingons were getting stale.

I guess I am in the minority here, I love TNG/DS9 Klingons. I like these ones too though. They’re definitely alien and bizarre.

Oh please. How old are you? You’d swear the show ran over your dog. Somewhere around halfway through Voyager (you wanna talk about hollow characters…?) was when this franchise stopped feeling like home to this fan. I’m delighted to have it back and that it’s gotten a kick in the ass along the way.

You lose any credibility when you start with the SJW nonsense. Star Trek’s always been about inclusivity and acceptance. You’d probably already be aware of that if you’ve watched it before. Discovery itself hasn’t brought any attention whatsoever to the ethnicity or diversity of the characters. It’s only people like yourself who rabbit on about some vague ill-defined “SJW sensibilities” that are making a deal about it. Sorry to hear you’re so obsessed with Martin-Green being everywhere in the show, by the way. After all, she’s only the central character. And yeah, for those of us who would prefer not to be stuck back in 1991-style storytelling, we’d prefer to get some background and depth to the characters.

Rest assured, there is some good news for you: no-one’s forcing you to watch it if you’re not enjoying it.

@LostTree

“the pacing is for ADHD sufferers“

As somebody with ADHD, I find this comment incredibly offensive.

My daughter and I are so with you. It feels like they only called it Star Trek for the name recognition. I have been watching Star Trek since it started and this is NOT Star Trek. How is this ship so much more advanced than Kirk’s Enterprise? These Klingons have no honor. The only time we ever saw a Federation crew abuse another species was during Voyager and that ship ended up being destroyed.

Go ahead and call me a troll. It will just prove that you have no real arguments to make.

You lost me with:

“The characters are created around pleasing SJW’s sensibilities.”

Such phrases are uttered when one doesn’t care about a debate and are more interested in hurling insults perceived or otherwise.

Three things I’ve taken away from this episode: 1. Oh, so Landry wasn’t only an a**hole but also stupid beyond comprehension? Funnily, the first association I had here was the TNG episode “Samaritan Snare”, where basically the entire crew told Riker to be wary of those Pakleds but he just ignored any plea and kept regarding them as harmless idiots. A circuitous association, I admit, but it’s just that same level of idiocy – only this time at least it wasn’t a character we were supposed to like! 2. I honestly hope Dr. Culber gets made into an ACTUAL character along the way, because as it stands… sorry, but he came across as a bit of a parody. They seem to be going the right way with Anthony Rapp’s Paul Stamets, who’s sorta arrogant but not entirely unlikeable – the standard “mad scientist” type, if you will – but those few moments with Wilson Cruz’ Culber left a bit of a bitter aftertaste in my mouth. Either you make him flamboyant, but then consciously and deliberately so OR you have him act like a stone-cold professional – the middle-ground just feels like too much of a parody of a gay character (i.e. “Hey guys, the audience has to ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY SURE the character is gay, but let’s just give him some dull lines, so they can’t accuse us making him a stereotype!”) 3. Do I need to get my brain checked because I’m starting to find L’Rell sorta cute? (Naaah,… Read more »

@JAGT — you know what I like about this show? I still have no idea who some of the characters are. Unlike the recent introduction of THE ORVILLE (for a completely opposite approach) that had the obligatory meet-the-crew scene on the hanger deck, DISC threw us into the world fully immersed, and it’s up to us to figure out who and what everybody and everything is. It raises questions, and pulls us in to get the answers, which so far have been coming, slowly but surely.

Yeah, you can definitely start to see some actual character arcs – not just tzhe half-baked kind – and that’s awesome. But there’s a catch to it: What the show gains in terms of character building it might lose in terms of story-depth. It’s okay if an episode’s plot can be described in three sentences – TNG had a very high number of high-concept plots and it’s still my all-time favourite TV series – but I’d prefer if those three sentences left me with a bit of a deeper meaning to take home. So far, everything resembling ethical debate has been treated in a very superficial manner – only working either as a set-up or an afterthought, but not yet as the core idea of an episode. But I won’t complain – not now, not yet. We’re four episodes in – two episodes if you regard the pilot two-parter as a mere extended prologue or preamble – and I’m hopeful as ever. And the fact that some issues make me wince obviously doesn’t mean I dislike the series as a whole… after all, TNG had a first season of which 80% were rather cringe-worthy.

Anthony,
Nobody went to get Gerogiou’s telescope. Gerogiou herself must have saved it before she went looking for T’kuvma, and put it in her will box. Someone then found her will box.

There’s a simple (possible) explanation: It’s not the same telescope. Captain Georgiou could have owned more than one, and the one that Burnham got was one that was safely in storage somewhere. (Georgiou said that it had been in her family for centuries… perhaps it was too valuable to keep with her on the Shenzhou.)

No, I think it’s supposed to be the same telescope. Things don’t happen in TV and movies for no reason. The reason they had Burnham look at the Klingon Light of Kahless thing with the telescope was to put the image of that belonging to Georgiou and being connected to her, in our minds. It’s the same scope, it’s just – as I keep saying – that Kurtzman/Goldsman/Berg/Harberts do things because they are “cool/wow/shock/etc”, not because they make sense or even fit. In this case, it’s the same telescope magically appearing via Space UPS in the world’s most annoying packaging, because… feels.

I am really loving this show and can’t wait to see how this seasons story unfolds. This latest episode had me thinking a lot about Captain Ransom and the Equinox. Will Michael have to betray her new captain to save the creature being forced to help the ship jump?

I also think they need to give the intraship site-to-site transports a rest for awhile. Seems more overused already than the 24th century shows did.

@Trellium G — yup. Site to site is definitely not acceptable canon here to me. It would seem everybody can do it. The Captain does it even when not an emergency. If Burnham had even raised an eyebrow when he did it, then I might have chalked it all up to this being a cutting edge science vessel with prototype hardware still decades away from being introduced as standard equipment. The fact this flies in the face of direct dialogue from Spock in Day of The Dove, really kind of rubs me the wrong way.

No reason why intraship transport was so dangerous was ever actually stated in the episode “Day of the Dove”, but one thing that stands out is the Enterprise, in that episode, was under the influence of the alien entity and was travelling at excessive warp speeds. We know from other episodes that beaming at warp was risky… so perhaps the combination of two less than preferable situations, high warp speeds and intraship beaming, made the procedure in “Day of the Dove” particularly worrisome.

I’ll have to go back and re-watch, but I believe in each case of intraship beaming shown so far in Discovery that the ship has either been completely at rest, or at least moving along at sub-light speeds.

@JamfoFL — yeah I need to re-watch all of these, but figure I’ll binge them when they’re all out. However, it’s the spirit of the change that bothers me. For the most part, holograms, HUDs, etc. are all cosmetic changes that substitute for some original 1960s production limitation. The problem with intra-ship beaming is that it opens up more easy-outs. What attracted me to this period with respect to canon, in particular, were the limitations of the technology. It’s the original formula of having just enough amazing technology to tell incredible stories, without being able to conveniently extract the hero from danger. Intra-ship beaming introduced in TNG was just one more example of advancing technology that allows for an easy-out, rather than taking the often more interesting hard way. Let’s hope you’re right, and they haven’t just transplanted 24th century tech in the 23rd for the ease of story telling.

@Curious Cadet – I agree… you always want to keep that level of danger, but sometimes things also seem a bit contrived. In the case of intraship beaming, it almost seems like they needed to find an excuse to prevent an easy end to the events in “Day of the Dove” and come up with this limit that, when you put some thought in to it, makes little sense.

I can step on to a transporter pad and beam from my ship, through the vacuum of space, through an atmosphere of changing compositions and densities, through meters and meters of solid rock and re-materialize in the center of a tiny cave with no worries… but sending you a few hundred feet away on the same ship, now THAT’S dangerous? That always seemed contrived to me.

But, you know what? Sometimes these minor inconsistencies are fun in their own right, like Khan knowing Chekov or any of the hundreds of others that have popped up long before Discovery was even an idea!

1. Spore Drive. I’m heavily reminded off the Voyager Equinox episodes. There’s a similar moral quandary going on here. I think ultimately Stamets will decide that torturing an innocent creature to make his drive work isn’t worth it–and he may even sabotage it himself at some point. The spinning saucer rings and the twirl the ship does seem a bit overwrought. But I do like the ship’s normal jump-to-warp effect.

2. Kelvin influences and tech. I’m thinking of this as the Prime-A timeline. While it may lead into TOS narratively, visually it’s its own beast. It’s been 12 years since the last Trek TV series. Before then, you had 17 years worth of sometimes overlapping series. Not to mention mostly taking place contemporaneously with one another (aside from Enterprise, but even that series had a lot of staff carryover from Voyager). And with this series there’s staff from the reboot films. I’m not really surprised at how it looks anymore.

3. Landry’s death. So she was more mauve shirt than redshirt. Death from abject stupidity? Well, real people are that stupid sometimes.

4. They ate her. Um. What the hell, writers?

Overall I’d give this episode a B.

#4 of your comment isn’t all that shocking. The Klingon ship was disabled and out of food. She was a different species so it really isn’t like eating your own to survive.

Go watch this week’s After Trek episode. The discussion about eating Georgiou with Gretchen tells you all you need to know about why they did it. When the host brought it up, she said “Did that shock you? GOOD!” And that’s all you need to know about why. While they can excuse it away with “Oh, the Klingons were hungry” this was written in because (again with the “well it’s cool” decision making style the producers of this series have) they were simply aiming for shock value.

Hence why I don’t like it. There are other ways to shock viewers. You could even do it by having the characters making questionable decisions that shock people. Now that’s an option that would actually be meaningful.

With Gretchen Berg’s comment in mind, this is indeed more than worrisome. I’m beginning to really hate that series.

The “excuse” that the ship’s crew was starving doesn’t count either because it’s a ridiculous scenario! The one Klingon ship that helped uniting the Empire and started this “great war” is left behind for six months in order to recollect their dead??? I mean, this is just silly. The Klingons could have easily sent ships to evacuate the Ship of Death. No, they DELIBERATELY stayed there and volutarily clung on to cannibalism to “survive”…

Wow I agree with pretty much everything was said in this review. I really liked the episode overall but yes it had its problems for sure. But yes I liked how Burnham handled Ripper (are we all really going with that name now, I guess we are) and yes it went to the heart of what Star Trek is. It was a great moment (especially after it ripped Landry a new one who very few people will miss) and hopefully harkens back to these people’s humanity in time. But I lol over your ‘ludicrous speed’ reference. It is funny but true. I really like the concept of what Discovery is doing but I still can’t help to feel its in the wrong time period to do it in. And yes, I know, I always harp on the ‘why I hate prequels’ thing but this is another perfect example. You now have a piece of very advance tech that the ships in the 24th century don’t have (yes we all know about the Equinox now but that was discovered accidentally and it was never used again once Janeway stopped them). Its NOT so much the fact the technology is ahead of the others but its the fact we know they HAVE to make it a secret just to make it all fit into canon and that bothers me more than anything. I just realized (yes I’m pretty slow in real life) that the writers are essentially having their cake and eating… Read more »

Lazy writing both in this article and for the plot of Discovery. There are simply too many WTF moments when I watch this. Why would Landry do what she did ? Could someone in her position really be that thick ?

Lazy writing in your post.

So you’ve never made a bad judgement call yourself?

Troll.

Bad judgment call? She should be given a Darwin Award for this bad judgment call! How do you not check to make sure that it is actually sedated before you drop the force field? This is like killing the bad guy but not checking to make sure he is dead. Then he gets up and kills you. Always double tap.

I do not mind the CGI or the uniforms (they are very similar to those of The Cage). What I do truly resent is the way the Klingons speak, slowly and painfully, it is torture. I wish they would just speak in English.

How are the uniforms remotely similar to The Cage? They are completely different in every way.

I mean the jackets. In The Cage, the jackets go above the yellow t-shirts. When the former are closed, they do not differ much.

Ok, gotcha!

The uniforms are one thing I don’t like. Really wish they had went with Fullers idea of the more traditional ones.

I have to agree. I don’t mind the uniforms but they still feel too busy to me. I don’t what was the problem with just upgrading the TOS uniforms a bit like they did in the KT films? Its kind of funny for a ‘prequel’ they wiped out any true consistency to feel like one for some reason.

While they are sort of growing on me, I have to say I think the DSC uniforms are super cheesy, stereotypical sci-fi.

Agreed Tiger2, to busy and they have that jump suit vibe to. The uniforms could have been one easy area of consistency they could have done to bring familiarity to the otherwise “up graded” environments like the KT films did. Never the less still enjoying the show. :]

My thoughts are I like the show, but I think because it is Star Trek. I would never criticize any iteration of that world. It means too much to me and who I am. This particular iteration requires a different kind of viewership that involves trust. You can not watch 4 parts of a 15 part series (or whatever it is) and pick each show a part. Everything has to grow and build on each other and eventually come together. We even have a creative team that is actually asking us for that trust. A review article should talk about the details of the show in a curious and positive light. As others have said, it isn’t a forum to criticize the show. It’s a Fan Site!! Had to get that out even though it goes against what I said this forum was for LOL. That being said, on this episode, the writers are taking a bold direction. As if mushroom propulsion wasn’t enough, you have to have an Orta navigating. The Klingon story is actually very good (Shakespearean in a way), but I hope we see an adjustment in dialog to help us follow better. Lora was more “captainish” in this episode. I like the way he stands (makes it his own), but wouldn’t mind him sitting at some point. Interesting that we only seem to see him on the bridge for battle sequences. Burnham, to me, is the least interesting character because she has the most potential for… Read more »

Horta

@Spiked Canon,

“A review article should talk about the details of the show in a curious and positive light.”

What you’re looking for is called a “puff piece”, not a real review.

“As others have said, it isn’t a forum to criticize the show. It’s a Fan Site!!”

Again, what you need is a safe space.

what you need to do is leave. Your opinions are negative and not insightful in any stretch and unwanted, I suspect, by most here. And it is a fan site. Feel free to keep looking like a fool. I won’t have any other opinion about you Ahmed

@Spiked Canon,

Seriously, you need a safe space asap. I hope that you’ll find it among the “fan sites”.

Stop trolling ahmed.

Ahmed really is the one who needs the safe space. And it is on this site under the Orville boards.

Let’s just let him be.

Stay safe!

Very good point re: trust, 4 episodes into a 15 part story. Off the subject of Trek, this is something was crucial to enjoying Twin Peaks the Return. One part of serialised storytelling is definitely that you have to wait until you have all the pieces (the series is over) before you can truly tell if it was successful or not. Thank you for the reminder!

That’s an excellent point. And that’s one of the reasons I’m giving it a chance to finish the arc before I decide what I really think.

This was my least favourite episode by far, but I’ve only watched it once as of yet. I have gotten more out of the other three episodes on second viewings so we’ll see.

For me, a big (but simple) problem is the subtitles in the Klingon scenes. I love that they are speaking Klingon for realism, but those subtitles are so hard to read! All in caps, in a serif font, only once screen for a brief second! If the subtitles were more like traditional subtitles and I could actually read them that would go a long way.

Also, the spore drive in general just seems stupid to me (which is a problem if that is the whole mystery to discovery that we’re hanging out for). I know it’s based on real science, I’ve seen interviews with the real Paul Stamets but for a narrative/plot device it just sounds dumb to me.

All that said, I am enjoying discovery for the most part. It’s great to see it being tackled in the grand scale that modern tv allows.

Does not feel like Star Trek..
-Klingons lame both in the look and overall how they are depicted

-ship and crew feel like they’re the beginnings of section 13..

It’s a big dark compared to Gene Roddenberry’s Vision in my opinion.

I realize they need to keep the show fresh but to ignore 50 years of lore and stories is just stupid.
I think this will alienate those of us who have enjoyed all the previous Star Trek that have come before this except for the recent reboot movies.

They can keep it as far as I am concerned Roddenberry would never have allowed them to charge to watch it

@Dissapointed — riiiiiiiiight … you are aware of Rodenberry’s company Lincoln Enterprises which sold memorabilia without giving Paramount a cut? And writing lyrics to the Courage Theme so that he would get royalties? You don’t know Jack about Gene.

…and the infamous introduction of IDIC…so Majel could sell pendants. Make no mistake. Star Trek was, is, and will always be, a business.

Are people still complaining about CBSAA? Yawn.

Internet: TV needs to evolve with technology. Give us a la carte TV!

CBS: Here is some a la carte TV.

Internet: OMG, what a rip off! Why don’t you just put this on my regular cable package or something?

You have to love the ridiculousness of the internet, sometimes.

Like Roddenberry would have had any say in how the show was broadcast.

Wow! What an amazing episode. They keep upping their game with each new episode. I really do find that this really felt like Trek. Well done! I really like Lorca… they really write his character well. Looking forward to next week’s episode already!

As far as the telescope… I don’t think it was the same one that was in her ready room. Since it was a family heirloom, it was probably still on earth.

About th Klingons eating the Captain, they said that food was running low. They were starving. See how easily they were swayed when they were given food? Very plausible that they resorted to eating dead humans. Remember that soccer team whose plan crashed in the Andes? They resorted to cannibalism.

I am glad Trek is back, but not really back on Television though, right? I know that there is huge up spike for signing on to Star Trek CBS All Access, but what about the old fogies who haven’t a clue how to set this up, and are huge Star Trek fans. I really feel sorry for them. I know there is huge amount of fans who love this online thing, but I think it is just a big yuck yuck joke. I tried getting this service on my Sony smart TV, and the only thing that works smoothly are the Amazon , and Netflix apps, and when I try to get CBS All Access through a web search it slows down to maple syrup slowness, and cant do poop when I go to the CBS site. Which just froze every time I went to it.. So I had to use my brothers Amazon stick which works so so BTW. And the image is no where near Netflix quality, but it is ok. I am liking some of what I see of the new Trek, but there is such bad dialog in some scenes, I want to go hide behind my couch. The one that sticks out is “The Beatles cover band” one. Ouch, holy terrible dialog Batman. What producer thought this would work on this show? Sorry, but that was lame senseless stuff, trying to appeal to some hip or dumb audience members. They are trying to relate to… Read more »

Let’s be honest, anyone that’s too old to figure out streaming TV, is not going to like how different Discovery is.

I don’t mean that disrespectfully. I just mean, it’s so radically different from the known and beloved Trek. I can’t see it going well.

Have to disagree with that viewpoint…at least from my personal experience. I spoke to my Dad the other night (watched first-run TOS in the 60’s) and he asked if I was keeping up w/ the new Star Trek show. I said yeah of course, and he was like: “have there been any other episodes since the first one? I keep looking for it and haven’t seen any others, must have missed them” So I had to explain the whole streaming situation and neither he or my Mom at this point have any interest in streaming content or learning how to do so.
But he was complimentary of the show and enjoyed how it was a “new way to do a familiar thing, nice to get a new take on a Star Trek show”. Really liked Saru as well. I have CBSAA so if he wants to catch up he can. That’s at least one old-time trek guy who liked the show but won’t bother to figure out streaming.

Spore drive…
Sounds like a bad Red Dwarf gag.

What the hell were they thinking…?

As with so many other creative decisions made by Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman… “Oh, we’ll use that. That sounds cool.”

David Alexander Harrison

There’s actually a drive that works in the same way in Red Dwarf (all energy was once connected at the point of the big bang, so the drive selectively re-entangles two parts of spacetime & the ship tunnels from one to the other), the “Quantum Twister” drive. It doesn’t use spores from mushrooms though, it uses a “Quantum Rod” which is – to quote Rimmer – a “green glowy thing”… Weird when a low-budget SciFi sitcom has more plausible sounding/looking tech than Star Trek…

Enjoyed the episode. But I’m still getting used to this style of story telling. I know its all the rage for Television, but I’m used to my Trek being “episodic”. Either way I’m starting to think Sylvia will turn out to be Section 31, she’s to “bubbly” specially since Landry’s dead (I thought she might be).

My main subjective gripe as well. I love TOS for its focus on plot and “monster of the week”, character development was secondary. They would reboot between each episode, not worrying about carrying elements over time. The more long form arcs they plop into the Star Trek format the more soap opera it gets for me. This makes Discovery not very good for re-watching, because each episode does not stand on its own. I’m withholding judgement for a while though as DS9 had a mix of longer arcs mixed with single standing episodes and I liked it ok.

As my wife and I watched last night, I was a 10 year old boy in awe of what the USS Discovery could do!
We loved it!

Awesome episode. I love this series.

First of all — are the writers even reading the previous show’s script? And who is handling continuity for this show – a Tribble perhaps? Commander Landry was on the U.S.S. Shenzhou when they first encountered the creature. She KNOWS that phasers don’t stop the creature and just piss-it off. It was a stupid plot device and a stupid death for the character. We also saw Captain Lorca previously destroy the U.S.S. Shenzhou, yet now it’s still around (minus some bulkheads) and it’s dilithium matrix is perfectly intact. This episode has more holes than a swiss cheese sandwich. Secondly, this episode and it’s accompanying larger plot seem very derivative of the Equinox episodes on Voyager. A captain who wants to use a life form for powering their ship, except on Discovery it is sanctioned because Lorca has carte blanch to do what he likes as long as it wins the war. Lorca is neither liked nor respected by Saru or Lt. Stamets, for that matter he doesn’t even seem like a captain.

You seem to be confusing the Shenzhou with the Glenn.

Shenzhou Glenn mixups aside, I think Saru respects Lorca, he just doesn’t like him. Saru is too by the book to not respect his captain. And clearly, the others such as Tilly, look up to Lorca. He seems like a leader to me.

One side is about ruthlessly waging war to preserve itself, by any means necessary. And that side has characters that don’t respect each other, and betray each other. And on the other side is…the same thing. I don’t know who the good guys are in this show. I know some people like this new Star Trek, and that’s fine, but they seem intolerant and contemptuous of us that feel the loss of kindness and love that used to permeat Star Trek. Maybe that’s why they don’t mind what has happened to Star Trek. They don’t show respect for different opinions, and they don’t treat those differences with kindness. Maybe that is why they don’t mind the loss of that in Star Trek. They don’t seem to value kindness and tolerance in either Trek or in how they treat others. As Kirk said in Wrath of Khan, I’ll say this for them-“At least they’re consistent.”

Art tends to reflect the times in which it’s made, and there doesn’t seem to be much of a premium placed on tolerance and kindness these days. But I’m hoping that you’ll see those qualities prevail on this show eventually, if you choose to stick with it. With serialized storytelling it’s just going to take longer to get there than 50 minutes.

Why did Starfleet leave their ships behind without scuttling them (i.e. self destruct) so that any technology left behind couldn’t be plundered?

The most likely explanation is that the Klingon Empire now encompasses the Binary Star system, meaning there is no chance for Starfleet to scuttle the derelict ships.

But surely some of the ships should have been set to self destruct before being abandoned, I’m guessing Starfleet would manadate a protocol especially in a battle or warzone where an adversary could gain a tactical advantage by stealing federation technology?

Well I guess if you think really hard, you can come up with

1) all the officers are vile cowards

2) they did not have time

3) they did not have the ability

Just because they dont have someone come on screen and explain it doesnt make it an issue.

It does for me personally, I think it’s either:

1. a plot point
2. a daft oversight

Section 31

Potentially the storyline of Star trek Discovery could have made it the best Star trek series ever but in practice it is an implausible mess. The spore drive utterly reliable transporters put this well beyond Voyager in the time line but its supposed to be 30 years before Enterpise and those hideous fifth rate ‘Angel’ lookalike excuses for Klingons (not mentioning the incessant tedium of subtitles) has wrecked any chance of that. Everytime I see one of those monsters thatsupposed to represent a Klingon I totally lose interest. They are an ugly caricature of what Klingons should be.

The sad reality is that the preening narcissism of Kurtzmann and co have used Star Trek Discovery like a seedy massage parlour to stroke their engorged egos to tumescence and in doing so urinated on decades of marvellous Star Trek legacy. They are a disgrace and should be driven out of the entertainment industry for good as a result.

Ex-Trekkie — I’ve watched TREK my entire life. Outside of the Klingons in TOS, I haven’t enjoyed a single Klingon story since … until now. I’m rivited by these truly alien creatures and their bloodlust culture in a way the heavy metal Klingons, with their cheesy wigs, droning on about their honor and blood wine never did for me. Can’t get enough of them!

Just to clarify:
– Discovery is not set before Enterprise. It’s set a good eighty years AFTER Enterprise.
– I think it’s already being made pretty clear after two episodes there are all sorts of logistical and ethical issues with this form of propulsion system. There’s going to be a reason this ship’s technology (perhaps even this ship!) doesn’t make it to the TOS days.
– I’d argue these Klingons are infinitely more interesting than what the Klingons ended up as on TNG. Also, there’s almost a century to go before TNG. Just like Starfleet, the Klingons have some developing to do.
– There’s no point insulting and blaming Kurtzman for this. It’s pretty clear he’s a fan of the show and Bryan Fuller’s still the main man behind where most of this is going. You’d hardly accuse him of being a fairweather Trek fan.

Blackmocco,

Re: …this ship’s technology (perhaps even this ship!) doesn’t make it to the TOS days.

Well, every canonista knows that Kirk’s Prime Enterprise was supposedly the first 5-year mission to end with the same ship it started with, intact, never having been knocked out of commission.

So it would be a serious canon violation if Discovery or any other Starfleet ship prior does make it back to port after five without ever being knocked out of commission or lost in space at the very least.

Y’know, I had totally forgotten that. (Clearly so has everyone else who’s bitching about why we’ve never heard of this ship or crew.)

Has anyone mentioned yet that “canibalism” or eating of other humanoids is NOT uncommon in Klingon society. From a species that, literally, eats the HEARTS of their slain enemies, did we honestly believe they were talking about game animals and not, oh I don’t know, Humans, Andorians, Telerites, Vulcans and so-on? In the very fictional realm of the Klingon mythos, them eating Georgiou didn’t bother me one bit… because that’s what Klingons do.

The Klingon scenes are so boring. They are dragging down every episode they are in. And when it comes to the Discovery, I don’t really like any of the characters so far. They just write them so unlikeable.

I can see the characters evolving somewhat though. Stamets is clearly warming to Burnham; Tilly is a bottomless well of perkiness, Landry was mercifully killed off, and everybody in general seemed to be in a more cheerful mood after defeating the Klingons at the end.

I love Kol.

Kol actually seems like a TOS era, devious and dangerous Klingon.

Another great ep, no fillers at all in this iteration of Trek. It’s interesting to see the reactions of people from this site on Twitter – Kayla Iacovino called this Ep “the best yet.Well done.”

I had no issues with the Klingons eating Georgiou. How many times have Klingons threatened to eat the heart of their enemies? or talked about it?

Klingons are allowed to be inhuman and have a completely different ethics/values system; love it.

What works for me: – Starfleet dilithium mine filled with civilians was awesome (Wagon Train to the Stars). BEST PART OF THE EPISODE. – Strategic events; Discovery saves the Federation war effort. – Michaels whole plot of redemption, that they are embracing a controversial character instead of burying it and packing it with a nice little bow. – Overall plot of the “evil creature” being misunderstood, ends up being useful as navigator Dune Space Guild Style. – Klingons coming off as a powerful alien race with internal politics, almost as if each of the houses is its own race. Now makes sense why the Klingons could take on the Federation almost seems like 40+ races vs. 40+ races. – Klingons themselves using technology to defeat the Federation. – TOS sound effects in the medical bay. – The saucer rotating that the empty space makes sense. – The Commander not being killed off too early that you had some emotional connection (she did seem like the “coolest” yet not quite fit the mold security character in a while) to her before she meets her red shirt doom. What did not work for me: – Discovery bridge needs TOS bridge sound effects and unfortunately is too large, the Shenzhou just came off as more alive as a result. Captain Lorca basically ends up having to stand if he wants to read tactical read outs and talk with the crew. – Spore drive just seems bad science but it is growing on me;… Read more »

@Cmd.Bremmon — I don’t think it was crossfire, I think Discovery dropped mines as it jumped away that went off shorty thereafter before the BOPs could react. And the Klingons didn’t want to destroy the mine, they presumably wanted to take it over and use it for themselves. So they sent BOPs in for surgical strikes. I’m sure destroyers were perched in orbit, which gave Discovery the opportunity to pop in under their noses. In which case, Lorca’s comment makes much more sense as the destroyers would have seen Discovery appear, then seen it disappear.

I hope there are not any battlecrusiers in orbit, since Discovery left the scene right after. And I think your mine idea is cool, just was not shown. Whole scene seemed rushed which is too bad given the most exciting part of the episode – why waste a grand finale?

Agreed that the constant Klingon speeches are getting old already and really not necessary. Just let them have normal conversations! I was surprised at the mention of eating the Captain. I don’t recall anything close to that ever being mentioned in Trek before. But, an interesting dimension added to Klingon lore. I’m liking Discovery so far.

It felt entirely the opposite of “classic trek” to me.

I suppose we will hear the Klingons speaking English in one of the next episodes. The dubbing lists at the end of the Netflix episodes reveal the names of the dubbing voices for Mary Chieffo (L’Rell), Kenneth Mitchell (Kol) and Javid Iqbal (Voq).

The episode pretty much summed up most of my concerns about this show. 1. The Tardigrade killing off Dirty Landry… I observed myself feeling good about it at first, the same feeling I had when they killed of King Geoffrey on GoT… and I hated myself for having these thoughts. That’s exactly the kind of grit that emotionally compromises the viewer, so typical for current TV shows… Making people hate certain characters to feel joyful about their bloody deaths. 2. Landry’s injuries was the first instance of gore I felt bad about. Arguably it wasn’t worse than the injuries Scotty’s nephew died of in TWOK, but here, it felt forced and weirdly out of place, exactly that sort of gratuitous graphic gore I was so afraid of before the show launched. Many folks applaud this sort of development, the fact that there is no necessity for self-censorship anymore. I hate it! State-implemented censorship is horrid, but self-censorship is a matter of taste and dignity. 3. The entire “(ab)using the Tardigrade as the ship’s navigator” feels so wrong for Trek. No lessons learned from TNG’s pilot or VOY’s Equinox two-parter, anti-Star Trek at its worst! 4. That rotating saucer section… C’mon! Yeah, it looks cool and spaced out, but it’s exactly that sort of wibbly-wobbly science fantasy that makes this show a reimagining instead of a true prequel to TOS. 5. The Klingons portayed as cannibals…eating Captain Georgiou. Just gross and only the beginning of many more undesirable additions to the… Read more »
I can say we’re still a long way from the likes of GoT, Hannibal (which was network TV!!), or even Battlestar Galactica, but I do get why some Trek fans may not be thrilled with such a different tone and style. I’ve been thinking that a lot over the last two episodes (even as I’ve been immensely enjoying them myself). Here’s a couple of things: 1. Yeah, Landry was a redshirt, pure and simple. Waste of a great actress too, but the character might well take the cake as the dumbest head of security to ever grace a starship. I don’t think they conveyed properly she was under stress from Lorca to get results, but that still doesn’t excuse how stupid she was. 2. Self-censorship is indeed a matter of taste but also, unfortunately, a matter of opinion. Everyone’s tastes are different. Yes, it’s gore on a level we haven’t seen on Trek before (reminded me of Griffin Dunne from An American Werewolf In London, actually) but it does serve a purpose to remind us just how lethal the creature can be. It’s also worth considering how the likes of The Man Trap, for example, might have been portrayed with 2017’s sensibilities. 3. It feels wrong for classic Trek but it also feels wrong for Discovery. Pretty sure that’s the point that’s going to be addressed. This is episodic TV storytelling now. Plots aren’t going to be neatly wrapped up in 44 minutes. Burnham is already clearly demonstrating empathy with… Read more »

Good reply.

“It’s also worth considering how the likes of The Man Trap, for example, might have been portrayed with 2017’s sensibilities.”

Yeah, and those “sensibilities” are exactly the reason I hate living in our day and age.

I’d disagree that this was “gore on a level we haven’t seen on Trek before…”

I still think the end of “Conspiracy” still takes the cake for me… flesh evaporating from Remmick’s skull before it explodes in a shower of meat and blood, followed up by the parent creature bursting through Remmick’s chest, complete with blood, an exposed rib cage, and internal organs before showing Remmick’s smoldering, bloody corpse in a chair… now that was gore on a completely different level. And that was in 1988, long before any “modern sensibilities”.

So, yes, while Landry’s injuries were bad, they were by no means the worst example of violence and gore I’ve ever seen on Star Trek. You have to go back 29 years to find those!

Been a while since I’ve seen that one, I’ll concede. First two seasons of TNG are never near the top of my “must rewatch” list, unfortunately…

Your #1 is the one that disturbs me the most about modern shows. We feel justified in feeling good about a bad persons death. A character is written to be hated, and over time the hatred grows. Then when the death happens, we get an emotional release. Justice was served! It’s very manipulative, unrealistic, and worse, it makes us feel that some death and suffering are justified.

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