‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Showrunners Tease Return Of “Not 100% Dead” Character

Wilson Cruz and Discovery showrunners appeared on After Trek to assure fans Culber was coming back

NOTE: Article contains spoilers from Sunday’s episode of Star Trek: Discovery as well as future episodes

With the possible exception of the revelation that the crew of the Discovery has found themselves in the Mirror Universe, the most dramatic scene from “Despite Yourself” was when Lt. Tyler brutally killed Dr. Culber, after the doctor revealed he knew Tyler wasn’t entirely himself and that the Klingons definitely did something to him. However, there is still hope for Culber, based on comments made by the showrunners on tonight’s episode of After Trek.

When host Matt Mira asked if Culber was really dead, Gretchen J. Berg said:

We will see Dr. Culber again. He is not 100% dead.

Aaron Harberts got a bit more detailed, saying the clues to Culber’s return can be found in a book by the real life scientist that inspired the character of Lt. Stamets:

Everything we do on Star Trek comes out of character and also – as much as we can – in science. So, get Paul Stamet’s book Myclium Running and give it a read. Paul Stamets’ view on the mycelium network and the building blocks of life and how life and death are interwoven will give you very, very good hints as to what’s going to happen.

Harberts also talked about why Culber died, saying it was because he was the smartest guy on the ship and figured out there was something not right about Lt. Tyler. He also added that the Stamets/Culber relationship “is not over.” You can see a clip of him discussing that below.

No Mirror Culber

Now, if you think that they are talking about Wilson Cruz returning as the Mirror Universe version of Culber, that does not appear to be the case. Earlier in the show the showrunners said that we will not see a Mirror Culber, with Berg noting they wanted to be sure he stayed “pure” as a character.

That being said, it was revealed that originally the producers were considering taking the show into the Mirror Universe earlier, possibly in episode 4 or 5, but in the end felt it was better to wait until the audience understood the characters more before revealing mirror versions.

Also due to the long lead time to develop the Mirror costumes, they were made for all the characters just in case they were needed. Concept art for the (unused) Mirror Culber was shown during After Trek.

Concept art for Mirror Dr. Culber

Cruz talks death and return

Wilson Cruz was also a guest on After Trek, and he described an upcoming scene for him, saying:

My favorite scene in my 25-year career is still coming in this season.

The actor also talked about the moment he found out he was told (in a “very lovely phone call”) that his character was being killed, noting “there were tears.” You can watch a clip of that from After Trek below.

Star Trek: Discovery and After Trek are available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on the Space Channel and on Netflix outside the USA and Canada.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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Mary Chieffo is a stone cold fox

Man, IS she. Terrific actor, too, seemingly.

I wish I could upvote you.

She’s OK.

lol someone is jelly

Seriously? Grow up, kid. Adults don’t say “lol someone is jelly.”

Plus… what, exactly, are you childishly implying I’m jealous of? No one is talking about anything that would involve jealousy.

Who are you to define who is adult.

An adult, clearly–one who doesn’t say juvenile crap like “lol someone is jelly.”

Lol, I must have struck a jealous nerve. Guess I was right #yolo

Wow, you are such a child. Grow up, kid.

Yes mother

Not seeing much from under all that Non-Klingon/alien Halloween-mask make up.

I guess I shouldn’t be checking these sites. But I acn’t help but feel a pang of anger when an article’s name gives away something like this. That is spoiler material, straight up! A warning would have been nice ffs

If you haven’t seen the episode yet and your first thought is, “Let me go see what’s going on at a Trek site,” that’s on you.

I have seen the episode! He appeared to have been KILLED in that episode! The spoiler content here is in the sharing that he is in fact… not. Generally, in virtually every action or sci-fi depiction of someone’s neck being so horribly broken like this, implies that the person is dead. Obviously

again, why would someone come to the site knowing the episode has aired FFS

The episode where reveal Culber isn’t necessarily dead hasn’t aired yet so he has a point.

They Lie.
Like when they said it was Prime Universe & that the Klingons were from an isolated Multi-generational ship to explain the differences.

welcome back troll

Well it IS Prime. And I dont recall anyone officially saying that about the Klingons. You must have voted for Trump.


The one thing we have all seen from this episode is the design of the Defiant indicates that this is indeed NOT Prime. I’m very, very disappointed in this as well because I truly did not want yet another reset universe. Yet we got it and it nullifies the awesome DSC novel that came out.

The design of the DSCverse Connie is abysmal. A clear indication that we are most definitely NOT in the Prime.

Well it is prime, its simply a rebooted one. End of the day thats ALL this is just like the Kelvin films were, but they avoided the issue by putting it in another universe.

Look, this is why I wish they went forward with the story line so it would be a lot less moaning about it. That said though if they ever went to the past and show a different looking ship as the Defiant clearly is then people would still be complaining about it.

But yes its in the prime universe, they simply updated it. We can’t be this anal about it but same time it was probably a mistake to put it so close to TOS because of these constant debates.

Tokyo… it IS the Prime Universe. Don’t forget that the Defiant showed up in the ENTERPRISE era. It is close to 100 years after that. You don’t think they would have made modifications to it in that time in the Mirror Universe? That is what you saw on screen. Nothing points to it being anything BUT the Prime Universe.

Relax. It’s the prime universe. Just because you say it’s not doesn’t mean anything. It is.

Is that you, Anna?

This is the Prime Universe. The Klingon appearance has changed dramatically throughout the entire series, on several occasions. The TOS Klingons, TMP Klingons, STIII Klingons, STIV Klingons, STV Klingons, STVI Klingons, TNG Klingons (Worf makeup even changed throughout the seven seasons), Kelvin Universe Klingons, and now Discovery Klingons. This is nothing new, and I’m sure the Klingons will get adjusted throughout the run of Discovery.

As for the Defiant, it has been in the Mirror Universe for 100 years. It stands to reason that the Empire, and any Emperor in charge of that ship, would want to make changes to the ship.

It did give a spoiler warning.

But yeah I’m sorry but how could people NOT learn their lesson by now on this stuff? If a move or episode is already out and you haven’t seen it yet, people STAY OFF THE FREAKING SITES!

I mean you’re not going to stay 100% spoiler free if thats your intention.

I have seen the episode, of Discovery, not of the After-Trek one. Is it really that unreasonable to be annoyed that this has information is shared in this fashion? That moment when he appeared to be killed was shocking! And a huge surprise. And then straight away, the first article headline reads “Not 100% Dead” Character, with a picture of the actor in question on a panel.

You’re right, I should be anticipating this stuff by now from these sites. But really, the spoiler aspect is a bit annoying… no? I believe some level of discretion would actually be pretty easy on these pages.

But please tell me — where are you seeing the spoiler warning in the title and attached image that represents this article? The word is not mentioned.

Its right below the pic before the the article: NOTE: Article contains spoilers from Sunday’s episode of Star Trek: Discovery as well as future episodes

I just copied it. But OK I guess I get your point now, you seen the episode but you didn’t know if he was coming back or not. Well OK, but did you really think that information wasn’t going to get out between now and next weeks episode?

Again I GET your point but if you thought you were going to not hear about it until the episode being on these message boards, that wasn’t going to happen anyway. Everyone was going to naturally talk about it on the boards as they are on the other article posted even if this one wasn’t posted.

And I wasn’t trying to be mean or rude but yes this is the reality of message boards. And I can’t blame TM. Its an information site, they didn’t spoil it in the heading but yes if you haven’t seen the episode at all you now know someone died but thats why you just stay off the boards if you want to stay in the dark.

“Its right below the pic before the the article: NOTE: Article contains spoilers from Sunday’s episode of Star Trek: Discovery as well as future episodes”

The point here is that this note is worth absolutely nothing if the TITLE and the photo give it away pretty much instantly.

To be fair it showed both he and the actress who played L’Rell but yes I get your point. But I just think there is really only so much that can be done in these situations. TM is a news site and all it did was report the information that became public knowledge anyway which goes to my point if you read the message boards with the main article people are openly talking about the fact he’s not completely dead so you were going to be spoiled either way just by being here.

And my phone linked in an article over the death this morning. A lot of people were upset about it but its the world we live in now.

Agreed. I hope SPOILERS, in future, will be right in the title of these articles, above the pictures.

I mean, yeah, it’s Trek, no one dies in Trek, right? [I hope]

Yet the moment Tyler snapped Culber’s neck I screamed. Yes, literally, screamed “NO!” and other words I won’t repeat here, because I was shocked and seriously, after a minute, REALLY peeved. Stamets and Culber are two of the best people … well the whole cast is teriffic … but I loved watching them balance work and life as a couple. How Culber’s heart must have ached as Stamets lay in Sickbay and there was nothing much the doctor could do for him.

But this does beg the question, are we going to see Discovery’s Chief Medical Officer at some point?

The article aside, I believe the producers screwed up saying what they did. I bet it wasn’t planned

@DiscoTrek. I don’t think it was an accident–the host specifically made a point to ask this question, and they didn’t hesitate in their response. And they are, of course, quite savvy usually about what they want to volunteer. I think the poster’s point below about “damage control” is a strong one–after all, why were they even on last night’s show? The other guests made sense in the context of the episode, but not them specifically (at least any more than any other episode). If anything, I was initially disappointed that Frakes wasn’t on–maybe he was busy. But the other theory makes a lot of sense the more I think about it.

I looked forward to Frakes as well. Maybe they expected a large back lash for killing him and wanted to calm the masses before the rioted lol

Well, maybe not a riot! But I do think there was some PR thinking going on. And yeah, I enjoyed After Trek yesterday, but at some point I’d love to see them do a deep dive with Frakes too, one of the few people with at least one legitimate hand in Trek past, present, and future.

No it was planned because there was an article from Buzzfeed about the episodes citing the death but a also quotes from both the actor and the producers he will return and that article was posted just a few hours after the show so it was probably written the day before. So it was always going to be let out of the bag he wasn’t permanently dead.

I don’t have any sympathy for someone who didn’t watch the show finding out via a headline that an unnamed character died. But I do think it is a problem if the headline states “Commander Landry dies”.

However in this case, the spoiler is that – the person who died will be back. Yes, they said it on After Trek – but some may choose not to watch that show to avoid spoilers. The headline should not give away within 2-3 hours of the “shocking death” that it isn’t permanent. That said, Wilson Cruz and the producers are at a much bigger fault for talking about it on After Trek. What’s the point of him holding the secret for months that he was going to bite it, if he is going to immediately say it didn’t take (and the producers confirm).

@Martin. I generally agree. Cruz and the showrunners made a point to share this info on After Trek for a particular reason, and given their stature it’s not going to remain much of a secret. At the same time, I don’t know what the appropriate headline for this news would have been–“something happened last night that might not be what it seemed?” “Don’t click if you don’t want to know more about DISC’s future”? I think anything vague would have been criticized even more for being click bait. I don’t see what the appropriate headline would’ve been.

I don’t think it was meant to be a secret since they already talked about it in other media like Buzzfeed:


I think they are openly talking about it because according to that article they were prepared for some kind of backlash for killing off a gay character so soon and wanted to reassure fans A. Thats not what that is and B. That he will be seen again.

So I think thats why they are talking about it so openly. I think the whole thing is silly to be honest but I’m not gay so I guess a gay person may see it differently. But yes they should be allow to kill off their characters however they see fit but same time every time a black person dies in a movie or show its the same type of issue which I also think is silly and I’m black. But they are just trying to get ahead of it I guess.

You have no right to be angry that a website you aren’t paying for and didn’t have to visit discussed a character’s death before you knew about it. The fault is on you, not this site.

Can we keep rights out of this? Jeepers. He’s absolutely right — the headline was a spoiler.

I did see the episode. This is a spoiler for FUTURE episodes.

Uh oh, a scolding from an unhappy soccer mom. Exactly what people come here for.

LOL. Soccer mom? I’m a guy.

Misogynistic jackass. I doubt that idiots like YOU are what people come here for either.

I got the gender wrong but the attitude right.

You are such a child. Grow up, kid.

I think “spoiler” is a misleading term in this context, however, since it was the showrunners themselves volunteering this information on the “official” post-show programming. At that point, it’s not a spoiler, but pretty much open information. If anything it’s on them.

@Holden — the information was given on a post episode show, which some people may not watch. Trek movie offers many other stories about Trek besides spoilers for DISC. Therefore it’s perfectly reasonable to expect the editors of this site — especially Anthony Pascale himself, would keep the spoilers within the article, not the headlines. I guess Anthony prefers web traffic to drop off by those who don’t want to be exposed to such spoilers? I hear he’s been making too much ad revenue anyway … I mean really!? The minute a movie is released, the entire plot is posted on Wikipedia. So by your logic, it’s “open information”, and people can just loudly discuss the ending of a movie as they exit the theater passing by a line of the next audience waiting to see the movie.

I stand by what I said. I never meant to imply, as your analogy implies, it’s acceptable to go out of your way to give away plot information to people who haven’t had the chance to see the show.

I simply meant that, as I think another poster suggested above, the idea that this is really going to stay secret and not be discussed in multiple venues is not realistic, since the show’s own writers are fanning the flames (intentionally or otherwise). This isn’t like someone posting unsubstantiated rumors just to get clicks or to get a reaction from others. This is a pretty legitimate news item to cover. Maybe the headline is spoiler-y to some, but–following that logic then–I’m legitimately curious what the acceptable alternate headline would have been in a way that didn’t suggest something similar. I think people criticizing this site are being unfair in their assumptions. TrekMovie has every right to cover relevant news like this.

@Holden — how about “producers reveal future plot spoilers in AFTER TREK”. That tells anyone curious about the spoilers to read the story, and anyone who doesn’t want to know, not to. Simple, and continues to accomplish the goals of the site.

Yeah, that sounds fair.

I’ve not seen the episode yet, and am not upset in the least about learning of the death and return of the good doctor….

It’s a great episode. I agree with much of what has been said above — I did not see that death coming AT ALL; it blew my mind! I think it was a little sloppy that they would reveal straight away that he’s not entirely dead in after-trek, and I understand why TM would want to celebrate this fact! I just personally would have really preferred for his fate to be unknown, at least for a time. I love this site and will happily continue to check it multiple times a week for fun… but in the past, titles of articles have been vague and declared the spoiler content. I really appreciated that and it was a reason for me not to click on things! It’s a shame to see that slipping. I am looking forward to seeing the good doctor again… but knowing that it will happen does take away from the dramatic moment when he if found / returns.

I’m kinda with you on this Mellvar, I watched it a day late, came here for APs thoughts, and was promptly spoiled for future story points. I mean, it’s fine and all, but I would have liked a week to mourn and wonder about the fallout. So he’s not dead? Not 100%? In the words of John Oliver, “kewl”.

My last comment on this “spoiler” business–I noticed while rewatching the episode last night that at the very end of the episode they had a montage of next week’s episode as teaser that included a shot of Stamets and Culber together in a new location, which itself essentially implies that this was not the end of their story. So you could argue the show itself spoiled some future developments. I guess I just really don’t see what’s so secretive about all this.

I love Wilson Cruz on this show. He’d better be around for good.

Agreed, I get excited every time he comes on screen.

I grew up a straight man in Alabama in the eighties, so I never really had much in the way of exposure to gay people (except for hearing people talk trash about them). His character on “My So-Called Life” was probably my first positive exposure to that lifestyle. I’ve never forgotten it, and never will; that stuff matters, and nobody should ever doubt it.

Unrelated side note: I hope Jonathan Frakes gets to direct more episodes. He did a great job with this one.

They should really shake it up to get off the mushrooms – have mirror Captain Georgiou.. on a mission to invade the prime universe, already having manipulated events (maybe even starting the Klingon war, killing her noble prime self).. in the prime universe no one believes them/thinks they’ve gone rouge.

I’m convinced Captain Georgiou will be the new Emperor. I think an invasion of the MU into the prime would be cool though.

Then he would have said Empress, not Emperor. For example Hoshi Sato became The Empress of the Terran empire in the enterprise mirror universe episodes.

True but it sounds like no one knows who the person is at all so the word Emperor could just be a substitute.

now come on, ST, if it’s anything, is politically correct. Officers are referred to as sir no matter the gender

And Saavik was called “Mister” in WoK

It didn’t come to my mind, but now that I’ve read it, it sounds possible. Maybe she is an offspring of empress Hoshi Sato? Or we will see an aged Hoshi?

I think this is pushing it a little. She is Malaysian and Linda Park is from South Korea. It would be very disappointing if they just figured all Asians were the same and made them relatives.

I’m guessing–and its just a guess–that the Emperor might turn out to be Admiral Cornwell.

I think it would have way more emotional impact and throw everyone for a loop if it was Georgiou, thought Admiral Cornwell as commander of the Imperial Starfleet would be awesome too. Them in an alliance with the prime Klingon Empire… yikes!

Maybe Georgiu or Cornwell would be TOO obvious, but how about Mirror-Stamets? Prime-Universe Staments said he knew all “permutations” and told them not to go into the palace. Surely the palace of the emperor/empress but what about the emperor/empress?

Interesting theory. But if the “palace” refers to the Emperor, the fact that he wants people to stay out of it wouldn’t suggest he’s the Emperor. Also, his reference earlier this season to Tilly as “Captain” probably implies he was under her command (though not necessarily, I guess).

Everybody’s on record as saying we haven’t seen the last of Cornwell, that’s why I was thinking of her (that, and the fact her character has completely disappeared suddenly suggests a sudden and surprising reappearance).

the palace is the defiant

I think Georgiou is the Emperor/Empress also. But I also think it could be Admiral Cornwell considering alternate Captain Lorca tried to stage a coup against whom ever they might be.

A good hint is that Jonathan Frakes mentioned he did not work with Michelle Yeoh but she was on set.

William Shatner is the emperor lol

I’m trying to watch this episode on All Access, but all it will play is tonight’s episode of Discovery. I already watched that!

All Access is by far the worst streaming site I’ve ever used; it’s not even as good as HBO Now, which has previously held that distinction for me.

CBS, you’re going to have to do better than this by far if you want anyone to pay for your service when Discovery is out of season.

Well, I am not paying for All Access once Discovery is over, but I am now pretty happy, because they made All Access a channel on Amazon. This means it is easy to subscribe and desubscribe via Amazon, and not directly with CBS. More importantly, the All Access is completely accessible on my Smart TVs directly through the Amazon app.

I’m watching — trying to — through my Amazon Fire Stick.

I’m not talking about the CBS app on the fire stick, but that All Access is a channel on Amazon Video now. That should be that it streams via Amazon servers, and not the All Access servers. And as I was saying, I have the Amazon app on my TVs directly, and in my TiVos – which I prefer watching streams one of those two ways instead of via my old crappy Apple TV – or on my other TV, through the TV’s browser, which is the worst way to watch anything. Quality is OK, but navigation stinks.

Sorry, I should have been clearer — I am subscribing via Amazon and watching via my Fire Stick.

I subscribed directly via All Access during the first part of the season. I saw zero differences in this new incarnation as an Amazon channel.

Did you try contacting CBS? Or were you hoping whining about this here would somehow fix it? Many techs have tech related issues from time to time including Netflix and the local FOX network. it happens.

Netflix regularly has issues in different markets with Discovery not updating properly.

I’ll whine about whatever I want whenever I want to whine about it, and I’ll do so wherever I wish to do so. You won’t have a thing to say about it.

And I’ve never encountered this issue on any other streaming service.

Sure, you can whine. But dont get pissy when people tell you to stop whining.

Yikes. The only thing worse than a narcissistic whiner is a narcissistic whiner who thinks they are the only ones entitled to say anything.

I’m currently on business in Jordan and was presently surprised I could watch the episode on Netflix with no commercials!

Also, I noticed that it gave me the option to skip the title sequence (Thx!). I don’t recall the option in CBS All Acess.


Spoilers below.


So the good doctor is dead, somewhat, and there will be a superbeing that will exist on board the Discovery.

Somewhere down the line, the crew of the Discovery will discover, so to speak, that Ash has killed a member of her crew.

None of the above has been addressed, really.

Beyond the death of the doctor is the agonization of Lorca, in the end cut. And that is where we are. What will this do to Lorca, and how will Tilly enact her role as fake-captain of the fake ISS Discovery.

There is something deeply unsettling about this episode and I don’t much like the feeling. I don’t know why, but that is what I feel.

Well in what way? YOu think this is all a set up? On Reddit one of the theories is that Lorca is actually from this universe and used the Discovery to make it back. IF true its going to be interesting and maybe there is another reason why he wants the Defiant just like MU Archer did.

I have to admit, I’m truly excited for the story line ahead now.

I like this series, and I am in support of it. However, this episode was not its finest hour.

First of all, I would like to get this out of the way: One or more of the characters should be named, after the character in the Austin Powers movies, Basil Exposition. Because there was a whole lot of talk, and less actual show than necessary. I had difficulty understanding how and why Burnham and Lorca and the rest would speak to one another in such an expressly expository way… if not for the fact that this was a TV show. That took me right out of the episode. Not necessary, not interesting, and not worthy.

Second, I like this show, but Lorca is portrayed either poorly or as an idiot. What commander allows himself the possibility of being agonized, if he is? Where is Burnham in this? Why is Ash being allows free rein to be the traitor he is? If Ash is truly a Klingon — and I think it’s clear he is — then Starfleet has a bunch of morons on this ship that are allowing a murderer of one of their top officers to play a crucial role in a critical mission. A most critical mission!

This is not a Halloween special we’re talking about here. This is an essential stepping-stone in the Star Trek mythos. I think that in these any other ways, the needless brutality of various scenes absolutely questions my faith in the continuation of Roddenberry’s vision — which is an essential part of this mythos.

I must tell you: The next episode should result in some form of rectification of the above.

For now, I am horrified.

I agree it was unsettling, but that was intentional. It’s the way TV dramas are now. If we want the old cheese we chill with Orville. This is the real S

I respectfully disagree. The storyline is already very weak. Lorca is a monstrous moron. The crew looms as very foolish. Is this the Federation at all? No discussion as to the MU — we know the counterparts are evil. But our prime characters are devoid of thought! Should they be?

I am gravely disappointed.

I’m guessing you are looking at this from a different perspective than I and many others. I will agree partially to your description of Lorca, but I am sure we will find out why he acts the way he does. I don’t agree with the “foolish crew” comment and “devoid of thought”. This seems an opinionated remark without basis. Making comments about the show at this point is the same as watching a movie with a complex story line and stating half way through your opinions why the you don’t like the characters and story. Let it play out and accept that you don’t know everything yet.

One hopes the crew will discover their doctor is dead!

What is this, when a murder occurs so viciously and no one know?

I ask you!

There is time for redemption. But I will never forgive Voq/Ash. Or whatever this creature is. This character should die.

I am interested in plots that make sense and that result in redemption. There is no other redemption for the doctor other than the death (or redemption, perhaps) of this Voq feature.

We must have standards!

give it time Dude lol

DiscoTrek, I don’t have a problem with seeing this series further. It’s just that there is lazy plotting that I am beginning to realize that underlies the recent events. I would like the writers to realize that there are many thousands of people out here who are not going to release them from their obligations to treat each and every character fairly in the name of the whole franchise.

Frankly, I think Gene Roddenberry would be utterly aghast at what is being done to Star Trek, but even so, I encourage development; it only need to be done with integrity. I don’t like stunts such as killing off a main character, now that I think about it — killing off captains and crew without so much as a whisper. REMEMBER: Two ships have lost their captains and crews in this series, as we look on and watch. This is disturbing. This Starfleet seems to be run, as Scotty would say, by monkeys.

Sorry, in advance, for any grammatical or spelling mistakes hereinabove.

This does take place 10 years before TOS and Kirk, so nothing is a perfect as the golden era of Kirk. Be patient and see how this series ends up after season 1.

Hat Rick

If Rodders wouldn’t have like this show, that’s fine with me. I’ve been watching Star Trek since I was a child in the 1970s and I never liked any of the spin off TV shows until this one. Horses for courses, as they say…

What the hell are you talking about?

Please read below. The entire franchise is under threat of being misinterpreted. We have idiots for officers now. Ask your local Navy officer whether the events of the last episode are plausible. They are not remotely so.

The prime Shenzhou is gone as is her captain. The ship that Lorca was supposed to save also died. Everyone of these people are dead!

What kind of incompetent jerks are in this so-called Starfleet?

Didn’t realise the navy had starships.


But Trek is largely predicated on naval practice.

Ships are ships, not craft. Admirals are admirals.

There are no admirals in the Air Force.

There are no admirals in the Air Force because they are called “General according to the pay grade chart. You are arguing semantics.

They do, just the public is not privy to it. Solar Warden and TR3B I am looking at you lol

You’re still not making any sense. They’re at war. Would you prefer that no ships every get damaged or destroyed? If so, you’d be complaining that the war has no impact on screen.

Even if a real-world naval officer in 2018 would act exactly the same as a fictional Star Fleet officer in 22whatever, what would he have done differently?

Use your words.

Just 1 episode and it showed the mirror universe. Not all will enjoy every episode but I bet the payoff will be glorious and will be very star trek.

Captains and crews died in TOS so that point is, well pointless. We are 10 effing episodes in!!! Why do you expect that characters aren’t being treated fairly. Almost every point you make is wrong except Roddenberry. And ya, he may not like it but it isn’t the 60’s anymore.

Tonight’s episode was riveting, and hewed closely to previous episodes of the MU. In some ways more so than DS9 did, I feel. I enjoyed it. Frakes remains a talented Star Trek director.
I haven’t heard anyone think about how it isn’t really plausible that the Klingons would be able to change Ash’s body to the point where he would appear human to any in-depth scan. Changing bone structure and shape of organs is one thing, but they would have to change blood chemistry, muscles, all the chemicals and proportions of chemicals in a human body, and a thousand other things- to match humans. It’s kind of a silly idea. Looking like a human is one thing; changing an alien into a human is much harder.
I love Wilson Cruz, the person. He was so inspiring at ST Las Vegas. But I can’t buy him as an actor. I find while he’s listening to the other actor’s dialogue he kind of looks like he’s smiling and pretending to listen, act, like a child with no experience would look. Then when he starts to talk he looks normal and he delivers his line fine. It’s something I feel Mystery Science Theatre 3000 would have so much fun with.

@GarySeven — I completely agree. I can’t believe they appear to be going down the rabbit hole with changing a Klingon into a human, such that he can pass every test. They didn’t even do that with Arne Darvin, which I have to reconcile as being a diplomat and screening processes being must less ridged after the war ended …

I am getting upset with this series beginning with this new chapter. The showrunners had better improve, or this will stand as a travesty. There is plenty of time for redemption, but mindrape, let alone what each Federation officer is portrayed to have done, is not a very suitable subject for “discovery” if done incorrectly. I did not tune in to watch “Star Trek: Game of Thrones.” I tuned in to watch a favorite franchinse and its evolution, and I will either avoid garbage or throw it out at the soonest possible moment.

I am saddened for Trek, but I do have faith in the future.

Mind rape you say? Deanna Troi was mind raped SEVERAL times including in a movie. Arguably so was T’Pol

They told you before it even came out it was Star Trek: Game of Thrones. AGAIN what is your point!

He didnt pass every test. Culber figured it out.

Well, since Culber found him out, I guess the Klingon effort wasnt able to fool an in-depth scan.

So what now?

The security on the ship is not worth sh*t, I must say.

The physician of the entire ship is killed and we have minutes of exposition about the MU?

What kind of nonsense is this and who is to be held accountable? Fake captain Tilly? Killy?

What is this?!

@Hat Rick. You should word a very strong letter to the writers of the show. They are probably accountable. Be sure to be specific about what your concerns are and how they can all be resolved. You will of course want to wait for the end of the season to gather your thoughts, and then go from there.


If the endgame doesn’t work, Hat Rick, I’ll be right there with you, buddy.

Culber is not “the physician of the entire ship”.

If that was Culber’s office, he will be found when someone has reason to visit him. The people he seems to interact with the most are all busy.

In fact, we haven’t even met the Chief Medical Officer. Culber is more akin in rank to Dr. M’Benga on TOS.

I don’t really care for that actor, so yeah…just like the godawful Gates McFadden…he’ll probably return…lol. i’ll temper my excitement with extreme caution.

lol there you are out on that island again. You probably don’t like chocolate either

I remember feeling after the debut of FARPOINT that McFadden was the only one playing a character as if she really was from a different time period (Stewart seemed to try to hit that evolved feel at times, but then he kept retreating to the ‘captain as king’ thing, which to me was practically his default setting for the whole run of the series — a huge step BACKWARDS from Shatner’s ‘wearing command like a comfortable old jacket’ approach, which I think you can find a reference for if you dig up that old SHATNER: WHERE NO MAN book from 1979.)

Emotionally McFadden’s Crusher seemed different from everyone else, and while it was a bit distancing, I also thought it showed she put a lot of thought and consideration into the approach. Admittedly, that phase of Crusher didn’t for awhile, and was certainly long absent by the time she returned in s3, but last year I saw a few minutes from the middle of FARPOINT (for the first time in decades) and the same thought occurred to me again about how she initially played Crusher.

Interesting. I’ll have to Netflix a few 1st season episodes and revisit the good doctor. Not unlike Michael, in Discovery, I always got more of an impression McFadden was just reciting lines of dialogue rather than acting them out.

These people have too much sex at inappropriate moments. Lorca last time, Burnham now. There, I’ve said it.

Nice shout-out to Enterprise’s best two episodes, by the way.

lol have to agree with you on that one

Yeah, me too. As they were building to that, I was thinking, “Oh yeah, sure take your time. You know, Lorca’s only in a FREAKIN’ TORTURE CHAMBER, and you’re on a ship where people are trying to kill each other in a galaxy that’s not even where you belong. But hey, sure, take your time, go have some sex while your captain inches closer to insanity or death, not to mention every minute you’re in this galaxy every one of your shipmates on the Discovery move closer to being discovered.”

and Lorca and Cromwell did it while Burnham was searching for Sarek in a Nebula. lol

I thought that at first but realistically, if they are able to do nothing but sit tight in their quarters, might as well make the most of it!

ya it was funny seeing lorca being tortured while we know voq is scoring on burnham, i was like dam lol they should have rigged the torture chamber so that lorca was just acting in pain

As a gay man i didn’t see the killing of Culber as another example of the “bury your gays” trope- although I can how many could interpret it that way. Saying that I will miss the chemistry between Paul and Hugh :(

@AdAstra Yeah, I didn’t either. Maybe because it was such a surprise (and I’ll have to watch again, but I don’t recall any jarring or sad music — or the camera lingering on him).

It absolutely was planned that the producers and Wilson Cruz appeared to explain that Culber would be back. It was damage control – because there’s a really unpleasant trope of the partners of gay characters being killed on TV shows. They were going to get ripped to shreds by many online sites unless they mitigated what happened with an explanation.

I think that’s a great point. Might also explain why Harbarts made a point to acknowledge his own sexuality as a writer on the show.

Sad to see that we live in a time where the creative people have to come out from behind the curtain and say “hey, it’s just a show, he’s not really dead, please don’t get the pitchforks out just yet”? I don’t have a problem with him not being dead, but seriously, it’s a creative decision, not one based on gender or sexuality or anything else. They didn’t kill him because he’s gay. Do we really need to spell that out to people these days?

I wish we lived in a better time (why else would I be a ‘Trek’ fan??????). Historically, the representation of the LGBTQ community on TV has not been kind, so I don’t blame some folks for being defensive or angry. That said, I think said representation on this version of Trek is more complicated, and the writers and actors are probably right in being proactive in addressing some of those questions for viewers who might be upset.

Apparently we do have to spell it out. See Trekboi’s ridiculously over-the-top gut reaction below.

Exactly how I feel. The backlash against the show The 100 was very big when they killed Luna. I think this is a big mistake, both in terms of story, and cultural impact of having the two characters in Trek. I’ll be very disappointed if he doesn’t return in some way.

There was also the hint at the end of episode 10 – absolutely no talk of Culber’s death when Tilly contacts Michael. So did it really happen????

I’m sick of their Lies. They are so condescending & offensive. Saying whatever they have to to get people to watch.
Star Treks first Gay couple- reduced to a zombie & killed off as a stunt. The underlying homophobia is so ripe they may have well thrown him off a building.
I can hear all the right wing fans of the show cheering his death. Thanks for giving them what they want instead of giving us Positive representation. Fuk you.

The show was always intended to be a Mirror Universe show where all the qualities of Star Trek could be discarded in favour of violence & hate

It’s a disgusting Mirror Universe rape of Star Trek.

I actually didn’t think Discovery could get worse. It’s too pathetic to be disgusting. At least the show has revealed its true colours.

ur everywhere troll. we don’t care what you have to say. seriously

“Those who disagree with me thou art Trolls” The age old cry of the oppressor.

Nope. A troll is a troll. And that would be you, Trekboi. Stop spewing your garbage.

you do it to stir up S. Get a life. If you notice I didn’t disagree with you. I just called you out for what you are. Do everyone a favor, leave.

It was definitely an upsetting scene, but after reading interviews about it, I am intrigued how this will play out. It is supposedly the start of a story arc between Stamets and Culber. Stamets mind is trapped in the Mycelium network, so maybe we will be seeing Stamets interacting with Culber through that network. They are saying it is a love story and Wilson Cruz says it is the greatest thing he has done in his career.

They are just trying to make us swallow their closet homophobic tripe- lying about everything- they are running Discovery like Trump runs the whitehouse media.

They killed Phillipa too. I guess their racist! If they kill a white guy, so help me….

Give it a rest

But you obviously watched all episodes of this pathetic and disgusting show so far, instead of watching something else. So I’m not sure if you yourself understand your point.

You can’t criticize something without knowing or understanding it.

he probably loves the show. He just wants to be a effing moron

There are no right wing fans cheering his death. They’d have to be watching Discovery!
(not agreeing they’d do that even if they were)

Right-wing Pro-Trump non Star Trek fans general sci-Fi fans are the majority of Discovery Fans. The mainstream majority. That’s who they are catering too with this unintelligent violent ugly series. The intention to destroy the old liberal Star Trek & discard that fan base.

I know I shouldn’t, but . . . “Right-wing Pro-Trump non Star Trek fans general sci-Fi fans are the majority of Discovery Fans”. Where’s your evidence for this? You might want to tell all those DISC haters ranting about SJW and what-not . . . Anyway. I don’t think you are a troll, but your anger towards a fairly progressive show is unwarranted and unsubstantiated.

Actually, the majority of Star Trek fans identify as progressive liberals. They would certainly not want to alienate the base. The whole society in Star Trek is based on Socialism for Pete’s sake. Find me a right-wing Trump supporter that believes in that type of society. In addition, you really think people like Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg would do as you suggest? They have proven themselves time and time again throughout various series and show types to be the antithesis of what you are claiming. I think there are some major surprises coming. Don’t throw them under the bus yet. Let’s see what happens. Besides, there’s an old saying… No one ever stays dead in Star Trek. Stay tuned.

You sound like what you describe, to be honest. So I think you’re just trolling.

I think you’re missing the point here. Culber’s Death was so shocking because he was one half of the only healthy/normal relationship on the show.

It wasn’t shocking at all You could see it coming from miles away- Gay characters are never allowed to survive & have normal healthy relationships, that’s just for Straight People. The underlying heteronormal right wing homophobic agenda, exploit & devalue.

You’re still wrong.


Why is Trekboi not banned yet?? He is an obvious troll.

I don’t think there is a lot of ACTIVE moderation besides temporarily holding comments.

“Those who disagree with me thou art Trolls” The age old cry of the oppressor.

You are still a troll Trekboi.

lol, that should be the response to ANYTHING he says

Seriously? The writers and producers of this show have been nothing but LGBT Affirming. For you to think that anyone, right, left, or center, would be cheering this is just sick in and of itself. Let’s see where they take this before you storm the set and lynch the cast and crew of this show.

What are you babbling about? How did they kill the first gay couple? Is Stamets dead?

You’d complain if they were killed or not. You just grab onto anything to complain. You probably complained when they announced there would be a gay couple.

The episode was excellent. And I totally see why it was cut the way it was with Culber’s death.

However, since they knew there would be a sliver of hope, perhaps it could have been hinted at within the episode itself.

However, in an episode like this it is clear this series is designed to have moments where people seem to do stupid things that we are supposed to forget about it because it’s dramatic. That’s troubling about the series as a whole. Would the great moments if there were no stupid ones?

yes, stupid people writing stupid characters is troubling.

What stupid thing? Culber didnt do anything stupid. People pushing that arent thinking about it well enough.

I was actually pretty shocked they killed Culbert. That was well written and frankly unexpected (great job!). I couldn’t believe they killed a likeable character, and for a while I was really upset. But I’m actually more pissed that they spoiled he ain’t dead. I’m considering not watching After Trek right after the show. Too many spoilers!

Also, that Aaron Harberts quote “Paul Stamets’ view on the mycelium network and the building blocks of life and how life and death are interwoven will give you very, very good hints as to what’s going to happen” is frankly terrifying.

I hope they don’t pull an Into Darkness and bring back the death through some technobabble gimmick that renders death meaningless. That would be much much worse than killing Culbert and spoiling that he isn’t dead in the first place.

Sounds like flashback dream sequence to when he and his partner first met. PR defection..he’s still dead.

No it doesn’t. He specifically states that the answer can be found Mycellenium Running which suggest they’re going to have a far out wacky sci fi way of bringing him back. He may very well be dead in a corporeal sense but I’m confident that we won’t just be seeing Culber in a flashback sequence,

Perhaps Stamets locates him on some Mycellenium plane of existence and they have a tearful goodbye.

Yes, I think it will be something along those lines.

Anyone else notice they have screwed around with the Prime timeline Constitution design?

Not really. It’s been in the MU for a hundred years. Wouldn’t you expect them to do some upgrades to it? I think this is actually one of the few instances where pimping the old design is *not* an issue of any concern. I mean – no one freaked out when the Enterprise-D suddenly had three nacelles and a mega phaser thingy in Q’s future in the TNG finale.

Given how willy nilly they have been with everything else that has been tooled about with visually, you honestly think that’s what has happened?

They’ve gone on record to say that the show is set within the prime timeline but they’re not beholden to visual canon. I can’t say I agree with every creative choice they’ve made (Klingons) but it’s not a difficult concept to understand.

Yeah, Im a canon junkie but Im not hung up on the visuals. If I was the producer, I would have done some thing differently. But so be it.

My thoughts exactly, I think they’ve done a good job of introducing elements that at face value seem to be at odds with the established narrative but have actually enhanced canon. Burnham being Sarek and Amanda’s foster child would be a standout example but the way they used her to explain the rift between Spock and his father that was introduced in Journey to Babel was brilliant and actually made Sarek a more sympathetic character.

Has anyone considered that the best shots that should be in a trailer for any one episode somehow seem to be the thing that would give away too much story?

Anyone who reads a website or forum about a TV show they haven’t yet watched and then bitches about spoilers is an idiot.

It would seem to be a bad choice.


@Dana — seems like this website covers much more than just DISCOVERY news. So unless they’re looking to drop visitors an lose associate ad revenue, then that’s probably not the case. Perhaps you meant only an idiot would post a comment without fully understanding what they’re commenting on?

They’re not going to drop visitors or lose ad revenue, so your point is moot. And I understand what I’m commenting on just fine, you sanctimonious cow.

He crawled under a dumpster and his neck wasn’t really broken.


Warning: Contains spoilers. I think.


The doctor I think should remain dead. Stamets will probably want to reach timelines in which the doctor is still alive.

I frankly don’t like this approach. But it is what it is.

Stamets moves the ship. “Stamets” is a name, iPhone.

And if this iPhone autocorrects me one more time, I will defenestrate it with joy.

I wish I had written this.


Very perceptive and I am somewhat moved to agree.

But Lorca is a moron. Someone please save him!

The only way they could have saved the show was having Discovery (set in an Alternate Universe) ending up in the Original/Prime Universe but instead they went fully into the wrong Direction, to the Mirror Universe.


The big question mark for me in episode 10 was Captain Lorca. It’s obvious that he is not who we were lead to believe. He is likely from this Mirror Universe, IMO, which begs the question: If this guy is the MU Lorca, then where is the PU Lorca, trapped in the MU? Let’s just say, I think I know who saves the day this time, and it’s not Michael Burnham.

As for Voq? Who the V’oq does Tyler think he is snapping the good doctors neck? Culbert was starting to grow on me. His passion, and com-passion seems so genuine, and the actor seems so tiny. It would have been interesting to see him grow into the CMO position. Perhaps we still will…
I’m curious to see how the L’Rell, V’oq/Tyler, Burnham scenario is going to play out. Will L’Rell get to resurrect the memory of V’oq, or will Burham bring him back to the light side, or rue the day she ever slepped with that creep?

Now, wouldn’t it be fascinating if in the MU, Captain Georgio turns out to be the descendant of Empress Sato? Nice way to pay homage to ST: Enterprise, if true.

Does Sarek’s obvious mind-meld w/ Burnham reveal her true origins? Will Sarek turn out to help the prime universe Discovery crew return to their own universe, like his MU son did? Perhaps the katric-link Sarek and Burnham share is multi-universal…

And Captain Killi? Wow, I always thought Mary Wiseman was beautiful but in this episode she is down right gorgeous- and so funny. Great character.

I hope that we find PU Lorca sooner rather than later in the remaining 5 episodes…. if he is alive. I think someone else’s suggestion that he did die on the Buran in the PU also very possible, but if PU/MU Lorca interchanged, that does mean they could meet up, and PU Lorca could be back for Season 2- which would be good.
But here’s the other question – MU Burnham is also “presumed dead”. She could also return.
And it would be something if Burnham or Lorca ends up as emperor.

I like Cruz/Culber, and when Ash killed him, I actually gasped, which doesn’t happen when I watch TV … but I am concerned about his return – I hope it is done well, and not just a reset button fix. GIven that it is already part of the story for down the road and in the can, I am hopeful that it was done purposefully.

I think MU Burnham is alive and with the Empress (Phillipa). The shocker will be Prime Burnham et al getting into the palace to see the Empress, pretending to be MU Burnham and is outted because the real MU Burnham is there.

I still dont think Lorca is anything but Lorca. But you never know. Perhaps both Buran’s being destroyed at the same time created a cross-over event and the “cowardly escaping” Lorca was the MU one, not the Prime one.

But that then assumed Prime Lorca is dead which would suck. And if he is alive and was crossed-over and is a prisoner right now, the narrative tells me he sacrifices himself in the end.

But that leaves us without a Captain for season 2 and I dont see anyone in the cast that can fill that role right now. So hopefully he sticks around.

I think I’ve bought into Lorca being Mirror Lorca. I know it’s way out there. At least 3 times he was overly concerned about Burnham being put into danger. That would make sense if he killed her in the mirror universe. I’m probably wrong but it’s interesting.

Is his motivation, then, to take Prime Burnham to the MU for the purpose of her masquerading as MU Burnham to get close to the Empress and take her out?

If I stay with my guess, I think he was just trying to get away from an almost guaranteed grounding.

He saw the writing on the wall and this forced his hand as without Stamets and USS Discovery he could never get back to the MU. Looking back the bizarre behaviour of him and Landry, his obsession with Burnham and his post coital breakdown all make much more sense when looked at in the mirror.

Yeah. if he purposely jumped to the MU to avoid being grounded, it doesnt mesh with the character because he’s essentially leaving the war with the secret weapon (the anti-cloak). So I dont know. Im not convinced he’s MU Lorca.

But if he is, Corinthian’s theory makes sense.

Thanks TUP. It could still go either way I guess as the whole notion of Lorca being from the MU could be a deliberate red herring by the producers. I think you’re right though when you say that Lorca leaving the war with the secret weapon doesn’t mesh with his character. However, we did see Lorca do something with the pad just before they universe hopped heavily implying that it was a deliberate action on his part and that makes me think that the war was never his real focus and adds credence to the notion that he’s masquerading as the prime Lorca.

What’s also interesting is that if it turns out that we haven’t met the PU Lorca yet then we also haven’t met the PU Landry either….

I have been wondering if we might run into MU Landry before this over.

No one had yet mentioned Lorca’s seemingly genuine surprise to discover that Tilly’s captain of Discovery in the MU. To me, that puts an end to the idea of Lorca as being from the MU.

he wasn’t ever a member of Discovery in the MU

Perhaps because she was not Captain when he was last there.

She might be recently “promoted”. . . lol. But I’d imagine a MU Lorca would have more familiarity with the history and crew of the Discovery. I don’t know: everything about the character in the last episode suggested someone who seemed just as confused and disoriented as everyone else. He was clearly planning to go *somewhere* (maybe a different time), but I just don’t feel this MU was his intention.

@Holden so where do youthink he wanted to go? Back in time to stop his previous ship being destroyed perhaps? I’m still leaning towards him being from the MU but I’m open to the possibility that it’s a red herring and that another agenda will emerge.

I hope Stamets doesn’t get the blame for the murder of Culber. Since he is a babbling mess right now, they may assume he did it. The preview for the next episode does show him outside the force field, on the floor holding Culber’s body.

I did not see the preview for the next episode, but it’s interesting to know that he’s obviously becoming involved in this subplot.

Why there wouldn’t be a number of people almost immediately aware of such an event seems fairly inexplicable. I would think that there would be more than one person assigned to sick bay on most occasions, and if there is a superbeing on board, there should be security personnel as well.

I will retract my rather harsh opinion on “Despite Yourself” at this time, as I was deeply unhappy about the rather sadistic scenes to which we were subject. And, again, I don’t want this series to become enmired in abstruse political plots unless there is a reasonable resolution. (I have never watched “Game of Thrones” and my idea of it as being needlessly impenetrable in this regards is one reason why.)

We shall see what happens to this crew, and what Lorca has gotten himself into. I am not convinced he is from the MU; regardless, he is in a heap of trouble, along with the crew he is supposed to command.

I don’t think he’ll be getting too many awards from this point forward from any Starfleet, but, then again — who knows?

I dont see this as an issue. Perhaps that area of Sickbay was Culber’s “office”. He also told Lorca he had the forcefield in place to protect Stamets from himself (as well as others). The extent of his power or violence isnt really known.

And the one person he shoved was Culber who would downplay it out of love for Stamets. That was his mistake.

I thought the scene that was missing was Ash lowering the force field as he left the room so it would point the finger at Stamets. The other thing that was missing was the Disco crew informing Burnham of the murder. .

Hey and here’s a question – What’s MU Discovery up to in the prime universe?

The MU Discovery is probably being chased down by Starfleet. As Spock said in Mirror Mirror, “It was far easier for you as civilised men to behave like barbarians, than it was for them as barbarians to behave like civilised men.”

Or when they get back the find the war is over because the MU Discovery took no prisoners, jumped in, wiped out Quonos, jumped out. No problem.

lol like it

Fun Idea.

The thing about the mirror universe I can never tale seriously is its 1:1 relationship with ours. In an brutal empire where murder is basically legal a lot more people are going to die than in a peaceful one. A million things are going to be and go differently. So how are all the same people alive — let alone born — in both? I mean, I know why obviously but it’s pretty cheesy.

The Mirror Universe makes absolutely no sense. lol But its meant to be fun.

Like if Enterprise has comparative counter-parts, by the time of TOS and certainly TNG, the timeline should be so different that most people would not have counterparts and certainly events, ships etc would not be so similar.

The only thing I can say to try and make sense of how things seem to work is something from Star Trek 2009 when Spock implied the universe would try to fix things.

If we look at the Mirror Universe as an off-shoot and that “fate” and “destiny” conspire to try and right things and only the “evil” personalities are what keeps things off kilter, it explains why everything keeps trying to re-centre itself.

Like Prime Lorca blowing up his ship when attacked by Klingons and Mirror Lorca having his ship blown up by an angry Emperor. Same event, same time…but different circumstance brought about the pre-destined conclusion.

I think the idea is that the Mirror Universe (in a quantum multiverse there might be many Mirror Universes crossing over with universes similar to the Prime one) is extremely close to the Prime Universe. The next one on from MU will be more different until you get several universes out and the differences will outweigh the similarities.

I was just starting to like Culber! Honestly, I thought Cruz was the weakest actor on the show, his performances were pretty wooden. But then in episode 10 he really jumped off the screen for me. “Wow, this guy is doing some good acting!” His confrontational with Lorca, etc. Wow! I’m loving this character! And then blammo! He’s dead! My wife and I literally jumped out of our chairs! What a great show!

Wow, i thought this was a great episode. So many twists and turns and a death that seemed to have a lot of emotional impact. I think this is a testimony to the great acting work of Wilson Cruz. I know that Tasha Yar was also killed off TNG but the death of Dr. Culber was to say the least, shocking!! Btw I also like to hear what Director Frakes had to say comparing the Discovery cast to the TNG cast – both of them having to face backlash from SOME fans because of the differences to TOS. This fan hopes that the Discovery cast and crew have many more seasons together, just as TNG went on for seven seasons!!

One last theory – please chime in if this has already been suggested. Voq was given Dr. Phlox’s augment retrograde virus to make him look human and then additional surgery to make him look like Tyler! The only problem is that Tyler’s character traits are too powerful for Voq to handle. If so, Phlox has made quite an impact on the new show as Evil Phlox’s barbaric “Agony Booth” invention was featured at the end of episode 10!!

I do think it’s likely that the augment virus will be referenced to explain how Voq has been altered. I don’t think it will play a big part but I could definitely imagine some brief dialogue alluding to it as the fact that it originated from human DNA might provide some explanation as to how the Klingons were able to fool Starfleets initial tests on Tyler. It might also provide a way of introducing the notion that Klingons in this era look different than they do post TMP.

So, anyone think Karl Urban will now pop up as the Discovery’s Chief Medical Officer Leonard McCoy? ;)

It boggles my mind that they were considering a trip to the Mirror Universe even earlier than this. IMO we still don’t have enough of a feel for these characters to justify it at episode 10!

It’s a very very small cast, but on a wartime footing, Lorca at his nicest makes In the Pale Moonlight Sisko look like a benevolent saint, we’ve been through a vicious security chief, Stamets undergoing so much external trauma we barely know what his baseline is supposed to be, Burnham doesn’t quite feel like she’s a settled character and Tyler is a bucket of PTSD. So characters are either so affected by the war or character wrinkles that we don’t really get much of an effect by seeing them dealing with the Terran Empire already. I don’t really know that having Tilly fake a mirror counterpart we’ve never even seen in action and a murderous version of that cute helmsman we barely got to know 2 months ago is enough to sell the use of the MU. Obviously it’s part of a longer arc, but I really dont think they earned it, and I’d be very surprised to hear that this is something Bryan Fuller laid out in his original plans. Every other show waited at least a year to try this trick.