‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Writers Talk Captain Pike, Klingons Having Two ‘Organs’ And More

We have been talking about the Star Trek: Discovery season finale all week, but there are still a few bits to catch up on including what show writers are saying about the finale and what is coming next. We also have Sonequa Martin-Green and Anthony Rapp talking finale and season two and more.

Showrunners talks Pike and unlikely return to Mirror Universe for S2

Speaking to Entertainment Tonight, co-showrunners Aaron Harberts and Gretchen J. Berg talked about the season finale and the next season. Discussing what role the USS Enterprise will play in the second season, Harberts was clear that it would not dominate the show, saying:

More than anything, it is about what new stories does this provide for our crew, for Michael Burnham, for Saru, for Tilly. Our main interest is Discovery. However, if the presence of the Enterprise can show us new things about our crew, the better.

However, Harberts indicated that Captain Pike will play a role in season two, saying:

The thing to consider about Captain Pike is, from an audience and writer’s point of view, there is something very exciting about a key character from [Star Trek: The Original Series] who’s only been explored in two episodes of the original series — three if you consider how [the rejected pilot for the original series] “The Cage” works into the puzzle in TOS. When we think about the idea of Captain Pike, it opens up some large possibilities. We will never say never to exploring him a little bit more.

Gretchen Berg also indicated that they are done with the Mirror Universe (for now):

I’m really proud of the story we told in Mirror, and we’re going to let people sit with those for a while and maybe we’ll be going back again in the future. But for right now, enjoy those episodes from the last year!

This is in their rear view mirror for now

Writer talks about Klingon organs and why we wont see movie elements in ‘Discovery.’

Star Trek: Discovery writers Bo Yeon Kim and Erika Lippoldt were guests on this week’s The Alpha Quadrant podcast with Garrett Wang and Aron Eisenberg. The writing team talked about their history of collaborating and working on Discovery.

One highlight was when Yeon Kim talked about a subject mentioned in our finale easter eggs article, notably how Discovery has introduced the fact that Klingons have two ‘organs’:

That was an ongoing writers’ room debate. According to canon, Klingons have two organs, they have two of everything, right? So … we had this debate, when we say two of everything, does that include the penis?… I think this was something that [EP/Director] Akiva [Goldsman] really liked the notion of. He just kept joking, “Klingons have two dicks, Klingons have two dicks.” And then finally showed it on television.

She also discussed how the writers on Discovery are limited in that they are not allowed to deal with characters and elements from the Star Trek feature films, saying:

Just because of the rights issue, we can’t use anything from the films, so that’s just something that we’re always aware of. ALL films, ’cause it’s a Paramount property, not CBS.

Thanks to Akiva Goldsman “Klingons have two dicks” is now canon

Rapp talks about Culber’s return

It has been already established that Wilson Cruz will appear in the second season of Discovery, and in a new interview with the official site, actor Anthony Rapp talks a little about what he has been told about Culber coming back:

We didn’t know at that point what’s to come, though we’ve been told things and we still don’t know exactly, but we know that you’ll see these two characters interact again next season. I don’t know if it’ll be flashbacks, if it’ll be flash-forwards. Whatever it is, there will be some presence of our relationship will continue, and I’m pleased about that.

This is not the end for Stamets and Culber

Sonequa talks family reunion

In another official video from CBS, Sonequa Martin-Green talks about the journey of Michael Burnham through the first season, ending with a reunion with Amanda and Sarek.

Tweet of the day: Preview of new Enterprise bridge?

Star Trek author Dayton Ward – who wrote the recent Discovery tie in Drastic Measures – has a message for those who may be thinking about redesigning the look of the bridge of the USS Enterprise.

More Disco Bits:

Here are some more links with what people are saying about Discovery:

Vox: How Star Trek: Discovery and The Good Place find humanity in hell.

TVLine: Will Star Trek fans nitpick the Enterprise?

Fandom.Wikia: The ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Klingons Are the Best in the Franchise.

Vulture: Why Star Trek: Discovery Needs To Evolve.

The Verge: Saru is Star Trek: Discovery’s unsung hero.

Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on the Space Channel and is available on Netflix everywhere else.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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211 Comments on "‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Writers Talk Captain Pike, Klingons Having Two ‘Organs’ And More"

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I’m surprised Jadzia never mentioned that to Kira to make her feel uncomfortable

Haha yeah!

I think Akiva Goldsman is rather adolescent though. He sounds like a boy in A/V club. Or Beavis and Butthead.

“Just because of the rights issue, we can’t use anything from the films, so that’s just something that we’re always aware of. ALL films, ’cause it’s a Paramount property, not CBS.”

What does that mean, in practice? Any character or race? Is that why we’ve never seen a Deltan, or a Son’a (that I’m aware of – I’m sure I’ll be set straight) or a Reman? And we’re not gonna see younger Carol Marcus, or Colonel West, or that admiral played by Brock Peters? And how come they seem to be less strict about stuff from TV appearing in the films (Colonel Worf, Quark, the Defiant, the EMH, Janeway…)?

A reman did appear in ENT romulan eps.

The rights split never happened until after Enterprise was cancelled.

Alex Kurtzman only recently said it was bogus and they could use anything they’d want, also from the movies…

well with the remerging of CBS and Paramount on the horizon, I’d assume they’d be less strict about these things.

I hope it happens soon, Hauke, so this ridiculous nonsense can come to an end.

The split really hurt “Star Trek.”

It happened just shortly after Ent left the air. The newly formed CBS basically concentrated on back-catalogue Star Trek tv while Paramount went for a soft reboot of TOS movies. Hopefully the next movie is a sort of resolution story to Spock/Nero. Maybe bring the story back into TNG universe and Picard Enterprise and sort of finish the Kelvin films with that.

Yeah it’s exciting because when Paramount and CBS remerge we could have the new Enterprise the JJ Abrams Enterprise crossover with Discovery.

I’m really hoping that the merging of all the ‘Trek properties will be under one banner, a la Lucasfilms. I wonder what such an umbrella company be called…?

Is that actually something people want? I think there’s a fairly large disconnect between the styles of the two universes.

Do you have a link for this?

Fascinating. I’m guessing this means that they feel they could negotiate with Paramount to use anything they need. I still doubt they could just unilaterally use a movie-specific character or ship or plot-line.

@mwz — CBS owns the derivative IP lock stock and two smoking barrels. As long as they pay the agreed upon royalty, they have the right to use it.

In the 90s, the TV/Movie crossover was much easier as the entire franchise was owned by single company (Paramount). Since they’ve split it into CBS and Paramount, the two have to stay separate. The TV show was even delayed because they couldn’t market it within 6 months of Star Trek Beyond to avoid brand confusion.

The problem is back when the EMH, Janeway, the Defiant, etc. were all in the movies Paramount and CBS were under one company, they split after those things and the movie rights went to Paramount and the TV rights went to CBS. there is talk about them reuniting again, though it’s just talk right now.

I guess no Sybok… :-(

I guess the Ceti eels didn’t count?

@IDJ — somebody got a royalty …

It means that DSC has to get permission to use stuff from Paramount, via Bad Robot, first, which I don’t think will be too hard, since Kurtzman is involved.

My guess is the “getting permission” isn’t too hard. The question is, does everyone agree on the price that will be paid.

@Martin — the “price” is predetermined. It’s a royalty established by contract.


Movies have inherent rights attached to the producers and directors, with rights of approvals. Most of these stem from the Guild contracts, but others are part of traditional boiler-plate agreements with talent.

In the case of Star Trek, to use any NEW character created in one of the movies, at a minimum the producer and/or director of that film are entitled to royalties for the use of that character. And in the case of Paramount, as a third party licensor, they too are entitled to a cut.

Therefore, it’s always cheaper to avoid using anything created by someone else who is entitled to royalties. TV is no different — producers are entitled to royalties for using characters they created, even if part of a franchise.

However, CBS owns all the IP, and can grant rights to use any of it, including derivative copyrights, as long as the originating parties are compensated as required by union and contractual obligations.

“In the case of Star Trek, to use any NEW character created in one of the movies, at a minimum the producer and/or director of that film are entitled to royalties for the use of that character.”

I read that the T’Pol character in “Enterprise” was originally supposed to be T’Pau, but then they realized they’d have to pay a royalty to the writer of “Amok Time.” I wonder if they had to pay a royalty when they did use the T’Pau character in a couple of episodes.

Mel Brooks version of Star Trek: “T’Pringtime for Hitler.”

I ALWAYS wished we had seen Deltans in the tv shows

“Thanks to Akiva Goldsman “Klingons have two dicks” is now canon”

I’m not so sure until we see it that this confirms the presence of two organs. It could very well be that there are two urethras, but not two penises. Obviously if there are two penises, then it begs the question as to whether there two vaginas to receive both penises, two say nothing of two anuses. There’s still only one mouth. So maybe a dual esophagus? Actually considering what Klingons eat, a dual digestive system is probably vital. But it all starts to break down when you get to the spine. As we all know, there is only one spine. And where there’s one of a vital organ, then there is by no means a reason to assume every organ is duplicated.

Yeah, I thought it was one penis and two urethras meself.

Some reptiles have two hemipenises, one shaft for each testis, so it’s not entirely unreasonable for Klingons to also have that.

This post is awesome. I love the world of Star Trek fandom! Seriously.

Klingons don’t have 2 of everything they have redundant fail safes, which means when somepart stops working the failsafe takes over. Next gen was quite clear on this. It’s another case of the production not understanding StarTrek lore and changing things unnecessary.

Well, it wasn’t visible except for the two streams, so Mr Goldsman’s wishful fantasy may be side-stepped next season. I HOPE SO

Struck me as completely childish.

Occasionally being childish isn’t such a bad thing, as long as it doesn’t become the norm. Though it seems like it would make more sense for a secondary penis to be located away from the primary one, so as to avoid both being…injured.

It’s just some dumb one-off gags, I’m not going to think too hard about it

I can’t say I’m thrilled about the idea of returning to the Mirror Universe. Once followed by a major coverup so that Kirk never heard of it is one thing. multiple trips back and it gets less plausible. With so many people witness to first hand knwoledge, not to mention Mirror Georgiou galavanting around the galaxy telling people who she really is… Still, I suppose if Prime Lorca is still alive, he’ll be in the MU, and unless he can find his own way back, they’ll have to go there again to find him.

The loss of Dr. Culber is disappointing. Yes, Stamets is still gay, but there’s no way to see this relationship in real time. Instead, it will either be virtual, as Culber is part of Stamets spore-addled mind, or in flashback, both of which will likely be treated with some reverence for the dead, and not the casualness of a day-to-day existence.

Or Culber is the green spore that landed on Tilly….

See: “How To get A Head in Advertising” for Tilly and Culber’s future.

It would be interesting if the Emperor gets a free trip to a sanitarium for claiming she’s “Emperor of all the Universe.”

I think he’s coming back through the transporter, once they discover that Tilly is acting strangely, and has Culber’s Mycellial essence within her. Culber will have the comedic experience of living inside a woman’s body.
It just seems so obvious to me that Culber will be coming back fully.
The producers are still learning the Trek writing ropes so I expect this newbie writing trend to continue for awhile.

“Klingons have two dicks”

“Writers have no brains”

Some reptiles have two hemipenes, one shaft for each testis, so it’s not entirely unreasonable for Klingons to also have that.

Brain and brain! What is brain?

The two dicks thing is as silly and juvenile as Tilly’s F bomb. Why am I not surprised that it came from Akiva? He’s walking proof that in Hollywood you can do one great thing followed by 20 years of garbage yet still have a career.

In an ideal world, Pike & Co prove to be so intriguing that it spawns a spinoff. My pick for Pike would be Christoper Meloni of Law and Order fame. He can pull off that tortured sense of duty which encapsulates Pike and season one Kirk, and looks the part as well.

The F-bomb was great. People swear. Always have and always will. “Juvenile” is pretending that people don’t swear. It’s an IQ test. If you offended by words you are on the low end of the intellectual spectrum.

@Luke. Agreed. People need to get over it. There has been swearing in the TOS films. TNG films. Etc. Why wouldn’t they swear?

The two organ thing was funny. I could take it or leave it. But it was a very minor scene. Who cares.

It’s not the use of the word in terms of “oh no, they used a dirty word on an internet network behind a paywall!” It was more “…that was forced.” So many of Discovery’s problems stem from the concept that because they can do something therefore they must do it even if that thing serves no actual purpose save for saying “we broke new ground!” Okay, you can put your pom-poms back on now.

But it wasn’t forced. It was funny.

Please, everything about that moment was forced. You could practically hear the “tee hee hee” from the writers room. It was so bad that I rolled my eyes involuntarily and groaned.

I have no problem if they want to drop the word in a sentence. However, this was the first time the word was used in a Star Trek series and to me, they failed miserably. It was juvenile at best. SO many examples of good television writing out there involving this word and this is what they gave us?

Anyway, you are welcome to have enjoyed the scene, but to me, it was so forced, it was cringe-worthy.

I nodded my head when she said it, because I was thinking the same thing at that moment. It *was* f*cking cool. We already knew that Tilly had a…poor filter between her thoughts and her mouth, this was simply part of that. They wouldn’t have had any of the other characters do the same thing, except in reaction to the initial use. It’s not like she just brazenly utters the word in the middle of a staff briefing, she immediately regretted saying it too.

@mwz — that’s a very good point. If anybody else had said it, I don’t think it would have been as organic.

It was as funny as cancer or a Seth Rogen film.

Yep. The same problem exists with their use of gore and almost nudity. In reality none of it has added to the show and the show would be no different without it. They should save it for when it really makes sense.

The problem is seeing swearing, nudity, and violence as being some separate thing from all other drama. They’re all part of pretty much everyone’s life, they all happen, daily, around the world. To not use them is actually the problem.

It wasn’t “great” at all.

If the show had regular profanity then it would be fine. It would be consistent with the tone of the show. But the show, and indeed the franchise on which it is based, used profanity very sparingly and when it did it was mostly for comedy value.

The F Bomb was used for one purpose only. It’s shock value. “Hey look aren’t we cool? We said f**k on Star Trek”? THAT is why it felt juvenile, not because it was profanity in of itself. It was also delivered in a cringe-worthy fashion, which made it feel out of place.

I personally swear like a trooper and have no problem with profanity. All I am concerned about is whether or not the style and manner of its use adds to the entertainment. Personally I don’t think it did in the F Bomb instance. In contrast nobody is talking about Tilly’s later use of asshole/arsehole in the show. Why? Because it’s delivery was fine and it wasn’t there for the shock value.

Not every complaint is motivated by people not liking profanity or being stuck in the past.

The f-bomb was kinda justified in the moment, they were talking about tech that would change the world as they know it.
It’d be like discovering electricity or DNA.
The two dicks thing was silly though. But until we see a Klingon double header, I’m just going to head canon that as a piercing of some sort.

The tech WAS F!@#ing Cool!

If you’re offended by swearing in 2018 then something is very wrong.

Not offended, just seemed out of place, to me with no reason to be there

I think of all the characters to have dropped the f-bomb, it made sense coming from Tilly first. She’s young, she’s impulsive at times and she has trouble with thinking before speaking. It felt natural from her.

I’m not offended by swearing, and actually find the use of swear words is very honest, as sometimes that is the best way to express yourself. HOWEVER, if we look at trek history and what Kirk had to say about swearing in TVH, it sounds like something that has fallen somewhat into disuse (not eliminated!) by century 23.

Also, if you’re going to swear big in a previously non-swearing franchise, make it count, don’t use it for a very modest joke value. When Bond swears in the books, it is pretty much always directed at bad guys and is quite serious. When they finally dropped the F Bomb in a 007 film for the first time, it is M doing the swearing and she throws it away in casual discussion with Bond, which makes its use seem arbitrary rather than useful or correct. The right way to use the F bomb in TREK is probably a Starfleet captain refusing to accept a demand he/she surrenders.

I thought Tilly’s “f bomb” and Stamets’ reply “f bomb” were in keeping with the best tradition of the service. You have heard that thing about “swearing like a sailor,” yes? And what was funny about the moment was Tilly’s cadet-like burst of enthusiasm, expressed with “language,” and Stamets’ level look at her, as a lieutenant quashing an inappropriate comment. Then his agreement. Gave me a big smile.

Robo, by your comment, I’m guessing you have never used a F bomb. Or if you do, do you consider yourself silly and juvenile ?

Robo is correct. One scene with F bombs and one scene with penile humor over a full season is juvenile…period. I’m far from prude but if you’re gonna say F**k, say it

So I wonder if kirks dad is dead and Nero is hiding somewhere waiting for Spock or has that happened or not

That’s all in the alternate ‘Kelvin’ universe and has no impact on the events of Discovery or any other Trek tv series

And thank Kahless for that!

Prime Spock uses red matter in TNG era after Nemesis to go back in time which results in the alternate time line.

No because that happened in a different universe.

Since Nero’s arrival created a new timeline he wouldn’t be around. So the Kelvin was never attack and George Kirk is still alive. If the rights issues with the movies weren’t an issue, it would be cool to see the Kelvin on screen in Discovery (assuming it is still in service and survived the Klingon war) and Captain Robau.

Memory Alpha puts its construction date at 2225, so the ship was only in service for 7-8 years in 2233. By 2256, it’d be in service for 31 years. A large ship of that type would likely have gone through refits if it wasn’t destroyed or decommissioned, so it would probably look different onscreen if they decided to use it. It’s unclear how old Captain Robau was in 2233, but if we use his actor Faran Tahir’s age, he was 46 then, and would be 69 in 2256. Given that people of the 23rd century either age slower or live longer, he could still be Captain, but I’d guess he would have been promoted or retired by that point.

I don’t see the issue with the “dick” thing, seems to be ok to have dick jokes on Orville, but ok…
But in all seriousness, who is to say a Klingon can’t have two functioning penises? Human’s can, obviously due to a genetic abnormality, so why can’t it be natural for a Klingon?

@Stu — but that’s just it. A genetic abnormality is what made us all who were are today. Only the anomalies that are useful to us, persist as part of our physical makeup. The same would be true for Klingons too. So whether Darwinist, or Creationist, the same test applies — what purpose does it serve? If you can come up with a reasonable explanation knowing what we know about the Klingons, then you get to keep your second penis. ;-)

The only reason I can see them returning to the Mirror Universe is to take Giorgio back do to her wanting to take over the Federation or somehow they’ve found prime Lorca there through some kind of communication in the miciliel network.

I’m very curious to see what happens in the chaos they left behind in the Mirror Universe. Who’s in charge now? Civil war, perhaps? A strengthened rebellion?

Welp… there goes the long-fantasized Sarek-Burnham-Spock-SYBOK reunion Christmas special that we all wanted…. said no one EVER!


Sybok was just a nightmare we all had

Life is but a dream.

I would actually quite enjoy seeing Spock, Michael, and Sybok together, very much doubt it will happen.

“Klingons have two dicks” is a monumentally stupid thing. Let’s think about this for a moment: When Voq was turned into a human he had one of those dicks removed? Really? Considering the Klingon/Human relationships there’ve been throughout all the series that’s just idiotic. I don’t really care about the occasional swearing or nudity but this is just childish.

That’s what L’Rell meant when she said he would have to sacrifice EVERYTHING. :-P

So for klingon opera, are the folks hitting falsetto notes double deballed, sort of a grand guignol version of what was done with the Vienna Boys Choir?

Then again, with trek’s penchant for things not staying dead, maybe the klingon motto should be SOMETIMES THEY GROW BACK.


“he had one of those dicks removed”

Talk about going off half-cocked!

What did the Klingon leper tell the prostitute?

Keep the tip…

Some reptiles have two hemipenises, one shaft for each testis, so it’s not entirely unreasonable for Klingons to also have that.

As for it being ‘idiotic’ in terms of a human/klingon relationship… um.. why exactly?

The wife and I do hit the adult…ahem…novelty store from time to time. Considering the wide array of double pronged …ahem….novelties there, that level of Klingon redundancy might actually be appreciated.

@Phil — interesting reply. While this would not be a genetic trait that has any useful purpose for the species in mechanical reproduction, I’m not sure that it wouldn’t persist as a purely recreational one — in much the same way as female human breasts are permanently enlarged compared to other primates as an evolutionary attraction mechanism.

But I’m sure you realize this means that the Klingon women then would want that kind of recreation such that having a double appendage would be a desirable mutation in order to select it overwhelmingly in the evolutionary chain. It’s certainly possible but seems universally unlikely — though it Klingon women had the functional equivalent of a prostate, unlike human women, then all bets are off.

Perhaps a better natural explanation would be that there was some two-pronged impregnation strategy, with a separate X & Y chromosome that can’t be combined without the presence of an egg or they will destroy each other. Sure why not. Or maybe the presence of two wombs ensures there’s always one male and one female Klingon born per impregnation.

MORE Georgiou season 2, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

i’m done with her..served her purpose

She was completely superfluous in the final episode and by the end seemed to be more of a nuisance than anything else. The writers clearly didn’t know what to do with her: they obviously didn’t want to make her an out and out villain (yet) but also couldn’t make her sympathetic. So she kind of floated thru the episode, doing her own thing and agreeing all to easily too just walk away at the end. Really poorly handled in my opinion.

Sadly so much of the finale was handled poorly. Everything felt so convenient or everyone just falls into agreement just so they can get to the end faster.

No thanks. If it was the Prime version I’d say yes. But the storyline with the mirror version was insulting to anyone with intelligence.

Here’s space Hitler, a genocidal maniac, given command of a starship by the Federation and then, worse still, allowed to escape! Monumentally stupid storytelling that treats the audience like idiots. Plus, the mirror version, unlike her prime counterpart, was little more than a moustache twirling villain (not unlike what Lorca ended up being).

Agreed. That was one of the absolute low points of the finale, IMO. She has been nothing but a distraction since Burnham irresponsibly brought her over from the MU. Bad writing, and just an excuse to get the actress more screen time.

Discovery did some cool things but if we’re being honest they also had some of the most ridiculous ideas I ever seen on a Trek show. I do give them credit for being bold and doing things the other shows never did but some of these just came off ridiculous, MU Georgiou being in the PU and Voq/Tyler being the top of the list for me.

I did like the MU episodes but I don’t know how I feel about MU Georgiou running around the PU. I thought making her ‘captain’ to Discovery was dumb and once again proved VERY unnecessary outside of doing it just to do it. Her being in the PU unleashed feels about as smart as letting Khan roam around. I’m glad they didn’t try to redeem her though.

Krokus Zanpanular XIII

Trekkies who can’t handle biology are the “juvenile” ones, not Akiva Goldsman, who was just confirming onscreen what we have long known about the Klingons. Two dicks is hardly a superficial detail about a species; indeed, it would have a huge impact on the development of the civilization et cetera. This domain is one of few interesting areas STD has exposed and merits further exploration in season 2.

What we have long known? You mean you have thought about it? Sorry Krokus, if you are thinking about that then you truly are the juvenile ones. This type of crassness has not place in Star Trek. Give me a break.

Ha ha ha. This has got to be a troll comment. Hugh impact?

Yeah, no wonder Michael Dorn wanted his own show. He wanted to do Star Trek: The Adventures of Captain Two Cocks!

Krokus Zanpanular XIII

Some chatter on reddit that they’re going to further improve the Klingons for next season – giving them 4 eyes and 4 ears. #TheGreatestTrek

Pike would be great. They did the parallel universe thing already, so I hope they don’t add more confusion by incorporating Talosian fantasy.


This aspect of Klingon anatomy has been heavily implied before. On the TNG episode ‘Ethics’, you can tell Dr. Russell is looking at Klingon double wangs on her iPhone and she’s says “so redundant” and then Crusher is all “I think it’s pretty cool.” Anyways, this is a core part of Star Trek, Roddenberry would always go into reproductive detail when fleshing out alien species, even if it didn’t make it onscreen. #ThankYouAkivaGoldsman

You’re talking about the era of GR going on about the size of Ferengi wangs and spouting off to Tracy Trome from the roof of the Hart Building about waves of ejaculate venting from his body? Not GR’s best years, to be sure.

LOL he really did all of that?

Yeah, if you can find the Torme story, it is a scream. The guy was doing everything to keep from bursting out laughing in GR’s face.

LOL Roddenberry really did turn into an old kook. I can kind of see why he kept getting kicked off of Star Trek projects.

Klingons have two of something.
But unless they actually show us, it could just be two holes in the same hose.
Or doubble-tipped.

None of which tells us what the women have.
Because we don’t actually know if Klingons use the same body part for mating and urinating.

Once Paramount and CBS Television studios re-merge it will become the most productive franchise in the world. At that point we can have made-for-tv productions of The Next Generation re-born, the new Voyager chronicles, and maybe even a long-awaited Starfleet Academy series- or an animated series continuing the exploits of DS9.

If they merge.
It”s not official yet.

In your dreams!
I would love a TV movie myself, but it ain’t going to happen!

These sound… awful.

Maybe we can have a series of Deep Space Nine movies. I would love to see the new station on the big screen.

What new station?

Another thing I think TPTB should do is produce a stand-alone Star Trek movie with unknown actors.
The idea was green-lighted over a decade ago, and Eric Jendrensen (excuse the spelling…) was the scribe they hired to write the screenplay. If I’m not mistaken the story was about an ancestor of Kirk that fought in the Romulan war, and it was described as an action-packed, high pace love and war story chronicling the middle-to-end of the Romulan war. All new actors were suppose to play the roles but Paramount scrapped the whole idea. I think the idea would have worked better if it was done now. Anything would be better than going back to the JJ-verse. And i don’t think Nemesis did a good enough job with the Romulan portrayal. One would think with the budget they were working with they would have given us a proper upgrade to those devious, pointy-eared Vulcanoid’s we all love to hate.

@Capt. Callisto – I disagree. Star Trek has always hired unknown actors. With the possible exception of William Shatner, most non-Trek audiences had never heard of any of them prior to their appearance in Trek. ENTERPRISE was the first to hire a well known actor as part of the cast in the Scott Bakula — and we all know how that turned out.

What I’ve been saying all along is that Trek would benefit from hiring a well known box office draw (at least for the movies). Hiring mostly unknowns does not help a relatively unpopular franchise world wide. Nothing would give Trek a shot in the arm better than hiring an international box office draw to sit in the captains chsir.

Michael Fassbender would have been an awesome fit for Data! He is probably to old now though!

Actual proof that Discovery is being written by people who are still essentially stuck in Junior High.

Are you ok with the dick jokes on Orville?

Or Penny Johnson Jerald being reduced in one episode to trying to sleep with goo?

Star Trek isn’t The Orville so why ask that?

Because, Jack, people are always comparing the two and everyone is okay with the dick jokes for the other show.

I wish people would stop pulling The Orville out of their backsides. The Orville is not Star Trek. It is irrelevant…and the presumption that we all watch it because it was influenced by TNG is silly for that reason.

I don’t watch it. I don’t want to watch it. I am personally sick of being told to watch it or it randomly being used as an example of what I should/do like.

We’ll, that is what I read on here all the time. Which is stupid. Even this website promotes the show as if it’s Trek. People whine bitch and moan that Discovery should be more like Orville. Which is stupid too. So therefore, to the whiners that complain that this is a dick joke… Most are the same ones that say Orville a is more Trek than Discovery. It’s to those I directed my comment. Come on man, catch up!

Catch up to the fact that you are creating both a straw man and a stereotype in one go? Catch up with that?

No thanks.

THE ORVILLE would always own its dick jokes, instead of pulling it in from left field. You can decide to hate it, or find it has its own charms (personally I migrated from the former to the latter once I sat through a few eps), but even though it takes way too much bad stuff visually from TNG, it ain’t TREK (though I still think a lot of my TNG pitches would work there.)

Orville is a Dramedy. It’s expected

Orville doesn’t know what it wants to be.

I dunno, I learned that some reptiles have two hemipenises, one shaft for each testis, in college, so it’s not entirely unreasonable for Klingons, nor does it imply that they are stuck in junior high, makes complete sense for an alien race imho.

Exactly what I was thinking Carter. Juvenile and crass.

Instead of the silliness aboard Discovery, they should have made a series set on Pike’s Enterprise.

That would have provoked an even bigger backlash than Discovery has amongst the Trek zelots!

It wouldn’t have created a backlash among Trek “zelots” if it was done correctly and adhered to the design and canon of the Star Trek universe.

Jack, the zealots always have an issue no matter what kind of Trek. They are worse than star wars fans. Some Trek fans will never be happy. Period.

While that is true to some degree, the problem is that by constantly promoting this idea people are rendering any criticism of a Trek show or movie invalid because “fans will never be happy”.

Personally I have very mixed feelings about Discovery. and none of the more negative views of those feelings come from a desire to see a Star Trek Continues-esque show. Trek does have to move on. The question is does Discovery make the most of it’s chance to do so? On that the jury is still out for me.

El chip, we have Trek 59 years after it originally aired. Yet with every movie or TV show, people complain about it. So it’s true, no Trek fan will ever truly be happy. They will find something they don’t like instead of enjoying a new Trek show.

59 years? 51 and a half to be pedantic!

With every new show or movie SOME people complain…and those complaints are often complex, varied and very different per fan. It is therefore rude and dismissive to lump every person who has any level of criticism for a part of the franchise into a homogeneous group that all think the same thing. It’s like saying all Catholics are paedos, all Muslims are terrorists and all Americans are all fat, gun obsessed violent people. When you start lumping everyone together and waving your hand dismissively you treat the other person as inferior and not worthy of equal consideration.

Some criticism will be over the top and without merit. But not all will be – and the truth is that for all those whose criticisms WILL be over the top and unmeritorious there are also will accept anything just as long as the brand name of Star Trek is attached, even if it were a ten hour movie of a dog poo on a plate. I doubt you would delight in being regarded as some who will accept anything, irrespective of quality, in such a hand waving fashion any more than those with criticisms feel good about being dismissed as people who can never be happy.

My bad. Fat fingers… Meant to hit the zero key instead of nine.
That being said, whoa. Pull back your aggression buddy. You tell me then… Which Trek show had no complaints? Which Trek show appeased the fans. There are very few Trek fans. What you have mostly are TOS fans, TNG fans DS9 fans and so on. I happen to like every incarnation of Trek. There are some Trek I like more than others but I am enjoying Discovery. I could care less about the look of the Klingons or that the Enterprise doesn’t look like it did in 1966 or that the uniforms aren’t velour pajamas. Trek has to adapt to television in 2018 and so do the “fans.”

You have so completely missed the point of what I have said and happily carried on down the road of the dismissive “everyone’s opinion that is different from mine is inferior and worthless and should be casually dismissed”. Notice how you immediately defaulted to yet another tired straw man, that anyone who criticises Discovery must, by default, want to see an exact recreation of the sixties?

Very sad.

What the hell are you talking about??? You obviously didn’t get the gist of what I said.

Well put, Chup. I’m not really drinking the Kool Aid on Discovery yet either.

Ummm there are people going nuts over miner things about the enterprise. Ofcourse people would go nuts over a series with Pike.

Do you NOT remember the backlash over the Kelvin films with some hardcore fans? And that has become the problem, what is ‘canon’ exactly? For months now people can’t seem to come to an agreement with that on Discovery since some are arguing canon is just whatever happens story wise or plot development while others are saying its everything, including what the shows look like visually and WHY there is so much debate over Discovery since they are (mostly) following the previous stories but then changed the entire look, tone and feel of the era since nothing looks like it was in the TOS period and everything in the show feels much more advance than it should be. And of course thats because you have a show taking place in 2018 and not 1968.

But trust me no matter WHAT they do, people would complain because as both Discovery and the Kelvin films shows now its no way any producer or director would ever be foolish enough to remake TOS as if it was the sixties again but to some, especially hardcore TOS fans who still cling to their VHS cassettes, that is the entire problem behind these productions. These people can never be pleased unless you literally try to turn it into a period piece, which would be laughed away by most people under 50 or new to Star Trek.

This is also why you should just avoid prequels because of how fickle Trek fans are but I digress.

I loved my Mego playset bridge and “spin action” transporter!

Loved my Star Trek Board Game!

I switched off when the urinating Klingon appeared on the show. As a mother I don’t want my child watching this sort of filth. What next, a defecating Romulan? Disgraceful behaviour, this is the first iteration of Star Trek that parents have had to worry about what sort of nonsense their children might view

Garak Stole My Scissors

Better watch out. The “we know how to raise your child better than you” leftists will be out in full force to label you a prude and out of touch.

Personally, I think we’ll see a fart joke in season two.

Hate to break it to you, people fart. Now, if the occasional dick and fart jokes bothers you, I suggest you avoid Orville. Your head will explode.

You don’t want your child knowing people pee?

While I strongly agree that it is very disappointing that Discovery has moved away from being family friendly like the past Treks were, I really can’t understand what seems like an overreaction on your part. Everyone pees. It was obscured enough that you could explain it for now to your children as the guy just emptying a couple of water bottle. Hell, given we saw Klingon breasts in past episodes, I’d have thought that would both you more considering we didn’t actually see the penises in question.

you switched it off, but came on a fan site and reading articles and commenting. Don’t you want to know how the episode ended? lol

Being your husband must be an absolute blast…

Everyone pees. My guess is your son will pee at least once today. I’m not sure why thats so upsetting? Sure defecting is a lot more gross to show but everyone does that too. Of course no I don’t want to see it lol but peeing is a common thing you see people do in movies and TV all the time. And many places I lived in the world, right in public as well.

My kids have had to pee behind a tree cause we were hiking in the hills. They understand you can’t always get to a bathroom, and thats all they saw, someone not make it to the bathroom.

The idea in TNG is that Klingons have lots of redundancy, not “two of everything”. This is sophomoric garbage.

“Klingons have two dicks, Klingons have two dicks.” If this is the juvenile crass level Star Trek has sunk to I definitely have no interest in seeing Discovery. There was a time when Star Trek had values and morals. Now it’s sunk to locker room humor. Again, this is what happens when liberals and progressives take over. Things sink into the toilet.

@Jack D — OK, time to ban you.

@jack you think the writers room on the previous treks never had humour? You don’t think they spoke like real people when speaking amongst themselves.

Lighten up Francis.

Your last sentence is silly. Star Trek was always a liberal and progressive show, made by liberals and promoting liberal values. Those are what were responsible for the values you talk of. It never ceases to amaze me when I read this “liberals are ruining Star Trek” garbage because I think, what the hell have you been watching for decades? Frankly I don’t think people even know what the word liberal even means now when they use it. They just think its a label for the regressive left and people who see outrage in everything.

This has nothing to do with liberal values. It has to do with poor writing and limited writing, limited aspirations in that regard. In other words, Star Trek is no longer that something a little bit special and aspirational. It is now just another sci-fi show.

Then let this deluded progressive be the first to thank you for making the presidency of Donald Trump possible. Class!

And when Prez nutjob and conservative moneygrubbing hawks take over, it is because they’ve crawled up OUT of that toilet.

So what new things did we learn about the Klingons? Uh, they’re cool with eating humans and maybe they’re double-barreled down there. O…kay, might be running low on ideas with these guys.

I mean, remember when TNG fleshed them out with things like the death howl, bat’leths, and Kahless returning? For a show with a reputation for being stodgy, still, those things are a little cooler, IMHO.

Yes, “fleshed them out” was a poor choice of words in this case, I now realize. ;-)

One of my biggest issues with Discovery has been the Klingons. Let’s put the unnecessary complete redesign aside and consider what we were promised. A brand new, never before look at the Klingons. They were no longer be the “alleged” biker brutes of the galaxy but a highly developed and complex society.

What did we get? Klingons barely more developed than those in TOS. What happened to the complex race carefully developed over the Berman era and movies?

I was ready to reluctantly accept the stupid redesign if they were great characters, but I feel I have been let down twice over, first by being told they were prime universe and canon (which so far they aren’t) and then by them being one dimensional monsters (with the exception of perhaps L’Rell).

Yep, despite reaching a burnt-out point with the Klingons a long time ago, I was still curious to see Discovery’s take on the culture.

I got over the redesigns fairly soon. But, looking back on the first season now, those redesigns are the only thing memorable about them for me. Which may not have been the case had they used Voq/Tyler to explore the differences in the cultures.

It’s all Monday morning quarterbacking now, but a story from the POV of a [conscious] Klingon sleeper agent would’ve been… fascinating, I think.

Indeed. But they screwed the pooch on that by essentially removing much of the Klingon in Voq with the surgery and amnesia. PLus the undercover Klingon I wanted to see would be a complex character wrestling with his cultural differences and sense of honour. Instead honour has been thrown in the dustbin and the Voq alter ego ended up as little more than a mindless, aggressive monster who is little more than a murdering space Nazi (the default go to persona for most of Discovery’s bad guys).

Yeah really, which brings up Lorca. Sigh… so much potential there too.

Agreed, Fritz. Unless they bring PU Lorca back, a sad waste of the character, and of Issacs (unless he had a one-season deal, which is plausible).

Klingons eating their enemies came from TNG & DS9.

So according to Dayton Ward, the Enterprise bridge has a transporter but no turbolift? Blasphemy! ;)

Played the heck out of that Mego bridge set back in the day!

To everyone going ballistic over 2 streams: It’s just a bit of writer fun, get over it. And if you really need an in-universe explanation for this, perhaps that particular Klingon was suffering from a very unusual mutation of the Augement virus that resulted in the, uh, “augmentation” of his private parts to where he now has a duplicate? Or maybe he had some additional equipment added to impress the ladies?

Exactly, anyone who gets upset over this stuff is just making me laugh. It’s a goofy Easter egg, who cares? I had a lot of fun with it with my friends.

And for those that do cry canon, many references have been made as to the perceived incompatibility between humans and Klingons sexually (specifically in one Troi asked Kaylar about it upon hearing she was half human).

You really get a sense of who is a fan and who is a troll by how they react to this. Fans see the humor and realise it doesnt much matter anyway. the trolls who seem to think they are the keepers of the canon get super whiny and make proclamations of the demise of civilization.

People need to chill out. The next creative team is free to have a Klingon with one schlong. Maybe this one had a medical issue.

Forget the two streams. I’m waiting for the first gay Klingon to come out of the closet.

Perhaps the ‘today is a good day to die’ motto actually began with the first Klingon to come out, knowing what the result would be when he announced.

This notion sounds like high school toilet humor, the kind of thing that if it makes you laugh, you put to one side till the urge to write it goes away. Makes me think this of a less-offensive quirky scene Shatner talked about wanting to do in the features, where he and Spock go up to a urinal and relieve themselves, but without having unzipped or done anything to provide access for their streams, like they have the urine beamed out of them or it goes right out through their uniform while they are talking.

…and now we know why Jadzia married Worf. Lucky girl! ;-)

I think I can swallow the interior of the Enterprise redesigned at roughly the same extend as they did the exterior. Since this is supposed to be the “Cage”-era Enterprise though, the one design element I WANT to see (if they show the bridge) are those odd thingies (monitors? lamps??) with the flexible necks! (See here, the console at the front where Number One and Lt. Tyler are sitting: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/File:Constitution_class_bridge_2250s.jpg )

The problem I see for those promoting that there exists a static “visual” canon is how do you accommodate this concept when Paramount?:


“Often we’ll see things that aren’t meant to be there. For example, in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, the makeup on the Klingons would have been softened by layers of emulsion on the celluloid, but once we clean it up, digitally, it starts to look very artificial. Same with miniature spacecraft that fly—you can often see the strings when we clean it up.” — Andrea Kalas, Paramount Pictures VP of Archives & Association of Moving Image Archivists President

Does it rewrite the Klingon altered movie look to be just the first series humanoid Klingons taking a page from Balok because they are now obviously using makeup, etc. to intimidate and scare opponents but do not really look that way underneath it all?

DIS, I’m shocked by Kalas’ remarks. I’ve interviewed her before http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/954ac42a#/954ac42a/82 and thought she seemed pretty knowledgeable, and yet here she is talking about Klingon makeups looking fake in TWOK — when there aren’t any aliens visible outside of Vulcans in the damn movie! — and about seeing the STRINGS that hold up spaceship models, when that isn’t a valid description for just about any miniature in a Trek film or series (the only wire work I can think of involving miniatures is the puppeteered creature work in CATSPAW, while other wirework was used with ceti eels and Khan picking up Chekov in TWOK, along with a couple of anti-grav units, seen in the initial bridge reveal and outside of engineering, in TMP.) Most all of the stuntmen in space stuff was done with a guy fastened to an articulated pole in TMP (along with some straight falls being done according to Susan Sackett), because Trumbull wanted control over the live-action just like he had over the models … I believe he said it was like having a motion-controlled actor, or words to that effect. Except for an ingenious multiple wire rig developed at ILM for BATTERIES NOT INCLUDED and HUNT FOR RED and similar bretheren used in THE ABYSS, wires and motion control were not traditionally compatible, and strings … STRINGS! just ain’t in the game plan for a heavy one-off six-figure miniature, and probably would only be used for pyro when the object itself hides the wires, therefore… Read more »


I’ve seen photos of Wah Chang’s original BOP, and the Galileo miniature, being filmed suspended on wires. No Klingons of any description in TWOK, though.

No kidding? Wow, that blows my mind.

I thought they did it the way I used to do my stuff — you stick a pole through the starfield or neutral backdrop, into the hidden end of the ship that is off-camera, then pull the ship away from camera. Alternately, you could move the hangar and camera together, leaving the shuttle static mounted to that same throught-the-background pole — this would probably be more steady. So you attach a dolly-mounted camera to the hangar bay model, then roll that back away from the starfield, allowing the shuttle to appear to fly off as it receded from the camera and hangar model. You don’t have to worry about hiding wires or supports if they are on the off-camera side – it is a basic tenant of magicians as well, for levitation and the like. I also liked how they got the GALILEO into the hangar in TREK 5 – they just stuck the model on a pole and pushed it in for the soft-landing, and then they basically threw the thing in (using the rigging from a garage door open mechanism) for the crashlanding. They shot it with a practical in-camera starfield, and when the stars photographed too yellow, they just touched up the lights with colored pen, blue-ing them to till they photographed white. It looks crude (or at least un-slick) next to ILM’s work, but unlike most of TFF’s vfx, these shots do at least work. There are ways to get very fine wires to blend with… Read more »

Cool, thanks for the info.

Michael Hall and kmart,

Re: Klingons in TWOK

Sorry, life drifted me away from this. Good stuff you’ve covered.

But you get my point, if that’s Paramount’s approach to preservation details, how can the static visual canon lookers have a leg to stand on?

I mean, I recall having a discussion looooong ago with kmart about how Paramount botched the image transfers to DVD on TWOK. One way it was made obvious is when the contrast is off a little on the display, all the matte cutouts on the ships’ FX sequences become visible.

What are visual canonistas to make of THAT if their rigs reveal it?!! Just the ship’s warp engines’ warping space in weird parallelograms and trapezoids? But they took out the the two ships’ warp drives in the first salvos of Regula I!

And the only possible Klingons are the original TV human looking ones…

One penis. Two urethral openings. Goldsman, what a knob

Since the MU was–for this fan, at least–where a potentially great first season went to die, I won’t be mourning its absence from the second.

Hmmmm, now we have a new response when people ask how it’s going.

You can smile and reply, “Me? I’m busier than a Klingon with two dicks!”

@HB — when you’ve got it, you’ve got it. And you’ve still got it!

Thanks, Curious Cadet! We aim to please!

Harry Ballz,

Re: We

We? Does that mean it’s not just the Klingons but you’re duplicated somewhere upon your person too?

Disinvited, all I know is my Klingon name would be…(wait for it)…TUKOK!

@HB — so politically incorrect

Ok so I always figured Worf would be a freak in bed, but now I’m thinking WOW! Troi must have really learnt some moves!!! (Dax would’ve already known ALL the moves. 😉

Sort of the Klingon Shocker maybe… ;-)


And to think, she chose Riker in the end. Surprising.

The moment when I completely lost respect for the new series. This was gratuitous and unnecessary. It also seems indicative of a fundamental lack of respect for Star Trek and the further development/retention of canon. One can only take so much ….

@Banba — then I’m surprised you’re still here after TUC.

That’s a reasonable observation on your part, CC. I was so furious with how they re-did Kirk and Spock in TUC that I couldn’t see straight for awhile, considering it as much an assassination as any character who gets bumped off in the film. But TUC did manage to tell a mainstream story that worked on a more elemental level, which lends itself to general viewing pleasure. I’m still a little conflicted when rewatching it, but that owes as much to slipshod plotting as it does to the character assassination, which made me give it the private title STAR TREK VI: (Spock’s) PRIDE & (Kirk’s) PREJUDICE. I would like to be able to stay enraged over it, but it is like the MISSISSIPPI BURNING phenomena: even though I know the way that film is told is utter BS (in real life, FBI actually bought the confessions), the storytelling is just captivating, with excellent performances and filmmaking. I don’t feel great about them basing it on a real event, but give them credit for doing it in a supremely entertaining way. I remember having a problem with HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER when it came out, owing to departures from the novel (and what it chose to not depart from too — if you really didn’t hear about the idea of defecting till later in the story, you have a white-knuckle FAIL-SAFE type story that can then segue into what we got), but I soon got to the point where HUNT FOR… Read more »

I tend to agree, my feelings about TUC not having changed much since its release. In many respects it’s an exceptional piece of filmmaking, with some sequences (Gorkon’s assasination, the trial, and the space battle over Khitomer) being franchise and genre standouts. But the characters and tone don’t much feel like Roddenberry’s Trek, even if the story’s conclusion and moral is a hopeful one.

These dual Klingon dicks better adhere to the Roddenberry Rules. Remember, they absolutely must have at least 50% line-of-sight on each other across the body.

I seriously tried to like Discovery. The production team made some very right choices and some completely idiotic choices, just to be “different”, with the express point of pushing an agenda.

Newsflash: it isn’t. …and No, I am not simply talking about sexual choices. I, frankly don’t care who is attracted to who on the show. No matter what agenda folks push as 100% correct and try to make their opposition null and void, all it does is drive wedges between people and limits their exposure to a wider audience.

This childish thinking that because Worf had two spines, let’s “give ours two pee pees” is indicative of vacuous, empty creative forces behind the scenes. Discovery could have been an incredible addition to the Star Trek lore, but instead the writing/production team behind this have done their dead level best to literally alienate the fans, except for the brand loyal brain dead fans who will accept any tripe thrown at them if it only has a delta shield on it somewhere. So much talent in front of and behind the scenes wasted because of a lapse of leadership at the top on all counts.

Speaking of counts, count me out of season 2.

I’ll go as far as to say they had about as many successes as they did failures. Far as a 1st season goes for a Trek series, DSC was definitely the best. Of course, that’s also like saying you’re the the shiniest car in the junk yard… hardly a compliment. I think the season opened well and went pretty great right up until the excursion to the MU. That’s where a series of unfortunate creative decisions took over and it went downhill really fast. I think it’s pretty clear that Harberts and Berg struggled to change the focus Brian Fuller wanted after his exit. This was something that resulted in a strange, terribly plotted and horribly paced, back end of the season. I’m counting myself in for season 2, because I’d like to see what this creative team is capable of, when not painted into a corner by another artist.

Having said that, I’ve been saying all season that Kurtzman and Goldsman are two of the most shallow, dim witted, juvenile, and terrible writers in all of Hollywood. So I’m not surprised they made sure we get that Klingons have two dicks. Not surprised at all. It’s pretty much what I expect from the guys with Transformers and Batman And Robin on their resumes.

@TW — your post does not deserve a response, but I’m going to just to point out how little credibility you carry with your opinion.

I don’t care for Worf or stories about him or Klingons in TNG, I routinely change the channel now when they come on. But even I know that Worf DID NOT have two spines.

So really who the hell cares what else you have to say about Trek?

@Curious. I did not tell you how to think. However, I would like to thank you for being the arbiter of credibility. Also, this: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ethics_(episode)
“Crusher goes to sickbay to tell Alexander that Worf has died. Alexander demands to see his father. When they come back they find that Worf’s synaptic functions have reactivated; his brain also apparently had a backup system. This allowed him to survive the operation. Soon his body begins functioning again.” Love ya, mean it.

You make a post in sort of a gutless way by subtly taking exception to the gay characters and/or black characters. So you have no credibility at all.

Its not that people are dismissing your opinion or forcing an “agenda” that is “100% correct”…some things are opinion based, others are facts. You can have an issue with gays or blacks but that’s not just a “different opinion” its bigotry and its wrong.

At least have the balls to say what you’re saying.

Could it be that Klingon just has a bad P.A.?

Good thing the EP and Director is obsessed with making sure we see that Klingons have two dicks. #ThisIsWhatStarTrekIsReallyAbout

One very brief throw away scene? Really? Thats what you choose to whine about?