Analysis: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 2 Production Video Reveals Enterprise Uniforms, Section 31, And More

Once again it is time to take one of our deep dives into a new official video, this time the promo announcing the start of production on the second season of Star Trek: Discovery.

Voiceover mixes past and present

The video opens with audio of Jeffrey Hunter as Christopher Pike from “The Cage”, and then goes on to include clips of Sonequa Martin-Green as Michael Burnham from season one of Star Trek: Discovery, interspersed with audio of Leonard Nimoy as Spock from The Original Series episodes “Space Seed” and “The Immunity Syndrome.”

Picking up where we left off

The new video shows a shot from episode “201” and scene “107H,” which appears to pick up the action after the season one finale. We see the bridge of the USS Discovery with Commander Saru (Doug Jones) in command and Sarek (James Frain) at his side. We can also see Detmer (Emily Coutts) and Owosekun (Oyin Oladejo) at their stations.

Season 2 picks up right after season 1

Season 2 ended with Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) restored to the rank of commander, and a science officer on the USS Discovery, which is where we see her in the new video.

Michael Burnham on the bridge

There is also a shot of Saru in the captain’s chair but with a green screen behind him. This is possibly done to create a holographic projection image of Saru to appear on another ship, possibly for him to open communications Captain Pike of the the USS Enterprise.

Saru in the chair for VFX shot

Captain Pike

And for scene “111B,” we get our first glimpse of what appears to be Anson Mount as Captain Pike, with Michael Burnham trailing behind him, and on the far right, a science officer from the USS Enterprise facing them both.

Captain Pike

New Enterprise uniforms

As was previously teased, the shot above shows that the crew of the USS Enterprise have different uniforms than those seen by other members of Starfleet on Discovery. Anson Mount himself sent out a Tweet this morning about the video, with the message:

Check it out! Our first behind-the-scenes footage of  @startrekcbs season 2!!! And you might just catch a glimpse of a rather famous shirt. ;-)

The design appears to be a mashup of the standard design seen on Discovery with the classic uniforms from The Original Series.

Captain Pike’s uniform being made

Designs for USS Enterprise uniforms, with various options

Close up shot of new red uniform – Note the more typical TOS-like insignia design

USS Enterprise interior

The video featured behind-the-scenes looks (or at least hints) for a number of new sets for the second season, including the USS Enterprise. The most evocative image is one with Michael Burnham entering a room marked 3F 125-1701.

Michael Burnham in a corridor of what is almost certainly the USS Enterprise (note the ‘125-1701’ under the ‘3F’)

This is no random number, it was established in “Amok Time” that Spock’s quarters on the USS Enterprise were 3F-125. So, it appears the above shot is Burnham visiting the quarters of her adoptive brother Spock on the Enterprise (hat tip to @TGParsons1701.).

Spock’s quarters in TOS

The video also featured a couple other glimpses from the USS Enterprise.

USS Enterprise panel

Camera operators in what appears to be Enterprise corridor

More sets, including L’Rell’s chambers and Section 31

There is also a glimpse of set design documents for a “Section 31 – Bridge: Lab.” It has already been revealed via the “bonus scene” shown at WonderCon last month that the nefarious organization Section 31 will play a role in the second season.

Set designs

Another set of designs we see are for “L’Rell’s Chambers.” These are presumably the new office for L’Rell (Mary Chieffo), from which she now leads the Klingon Empire. It also includes a nice garden.

L’Rell gets a garden

There are also a number of shots of set construction, which may be for one of the above designs or for the Enterprise.

Set interior construction

Another shot of the same set from ground level

And yet another shot of set under construction

Construction on exterior of what may be a bridge set

Something being 3D printed


There are also a couple of looks at some of the alien designs. One features what may be a new take on a Saurian.

Another new alien being worked on – a new take on a Saurian perhaps?

And there was a close-up look at what appears to be an unknown alien bridge officer, seen in episode 4 of season 1.

Close up look at alien’s head and eye

USS Discovery

The video featured a number of shots of the USS Discovery.

USS Discovery bridge

Another shot of the USS Discovery bridge

USS Discovery bridge from the outside of the set

Dedication plague for the USS Discovery

Directed by Alex Kurtzman

There were also a couple of shots of Executive Producer and Co-creator Alex Kurtzman, who is directing the first episode of the second season.

Kurtzman calls action

Kutzman keeps an eye on the monitors

Title cards

Finally the new video featured a couple of title cards

The next chapter begins

Season 2 is now officially in production


Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on Space and streams on CraveTV. It is available on Netflix everywhere else.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

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I predict the uniform change will completely silence the “it’s not prime” crowd, and there will be peace and harmony on this message board. Forever and ever.

Still that little of problem of a super massive war that nearly destroyed the federation and cloaks to account for.

Are you talking about Axanar? That was a reboot! Didn’t you know?

I think we can assume that this version of the cloak was defeated by the Discovery and so was abandoned.

Nope. Nothing to account for at all, really.

Ultimately, the “it’s not prime” question is less important than the “it’s not good” problem. People would pile on less with the canon trivia and macrocephalic Klingons, if the basic storytelling were competent.

Far less important, Galt. Agreed.

On that much, we’re agreed.

Thank you. It’s not so much that it’s not very good Star Trek. It’s just not very good. Period.

Agree. They principally need to fix the writing.
Things like canon and production design criticism would be placed to one side by most people if the stories worked.

“It’s not good” according to whom? That’s the real REAL question. Peabody nomination? Saturn nominations? Hugo nomination? “Not good” according to whom?

It’s filled with giant plot holes.

Even the episode nominated for a Peabody was riddled with plot holes.

How did mudd get out of the prison?
Where did mudd get the time crystal?
Why were the discovery crew not interested in a crystal that could control time?
Why would mudd with access to a time crystal go for revenge instead of making money?
Why would he contact the Kligons and trade them the ship?
Since the Kligons could easily have thrown him back into jail?
Why would mudd not seize the ship for himself and use it to make money?
How did Stella arrive so quickly? Does her father’s ship also have a mushroom drive?

That was the probably the second best episode of the series but even that one was filled with problems.

It is filled with giant plot holes according to WHOM?

Answers to your questions:

– Mudd clearly was in league with the Klingons, working for them while in prison. Not difficult to imagine he said he would serve Lorca on a plate for them, what in fact he tried to after that.
– The crystal was destroyed when Mudd did not activate it. So, there was nothing to investigate.
– Mudd was both going for revenge AND money. He even give it another go so that he could get MORE money (and NOT more revenge).
– You clearly didn’t watch the episode properly. He was doing it for money. The Klingons promised to make him a rich man. Rewatch his dialogue with Burnham shortly before she commits suicide.
– See my first answer for that. Again, you apparently didn’t watch both “Choose Your Pain” and “Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad” with due attention.
– Oh Gosh. Again? He was seizing the ship to make money by selling it to the Klingons.
– We didn’t know how far she was, so we can’t say much about how long it would take her to get there.

Let’s have a look at “Etc.,” because, so far, nothing to really complain about here.

Even if you assume the Kligons let Mudd out of prison and mudd was happy to return to them under the hopes they would pay him a large reward and his future father in law just happened to be near by.

Where did mudd get the time crystal? Where did he get a magic device capable of controlling time?
Why would the discovery crew not try to find out where he got the crystal from, how it functioned. So they could either get more of them and use them in the war with the Kligons?

I believe that was mentioned as well, by Burnham, as she’s figuring out why they keep looping time. I could be wrong.

As for “magic devices,” have you seen that Star Trek transporter? WHEW!

Yes of course a transporter is magic. And you know what, everyone has one because they a hugely important piece of equipment just as wrap engines/mushroom drives are magic.
Star Trek technology is magic explained in fake science sounding words.

But why would a time crystal not be vital interest to the federation in the war against the Klingons?
Some people complained that the show when it returned form its midseason finale the show forgot about the magic flowers, but no one seems to care they introduced a super device, the time crystal, which no one attempted to get any more of or replicate its ability.

This series isnt for you. For the sake of your mental health, be stop watching. If you cant enjoy a fun episode because of the plot holes you say exist (which really dont), its time to find a new show.

Thanks for your wonderful advice 😒

It’s amazing, there are giant masssive trolls and people losing their minds over the use of different materials or colors for uniforms on this website. Yet I’m the one who is told to stop watching for the sake of my metal health.
Coming from a person who can’t read, I already said it was the second best episode. Never said I did not enjoy the fun episode.

It’s truly amazing. This is supposed to be a website for people’ comments and views but when people dare to criticize or point out flaws in discovery that they perceive they are roundly critized and belittled.
So much for tolerance and inclusivity.

Quite frankly, if you combed every TV show with that level of anal retentiveness, none would ever stand up to scrutiny.

God I’d love if you were my supervisor or one my examiners. It would making writing a hell of a lot easier.

Thanks Salvador. Im sick and tired of people complaining blah blah blah about the show which i think is great. The same people complaining are watching the show in secret and coming to make noise in the open.

Those are not plot holes. They are left to the imagination. Just because they don’t spell it all out for you doesn’t mean it is a plot hole. Use your imagination.

Agree wholeheartedly, Captain Ransom.

A plot hole is when one’s imagination can’t fill in the gaps. But every story ever told will not show every single fact connected to it. Otherwise, stories would develop as slowly as real life, or even more slowly, because they would have to show every single moment of every single character. That’s not how it works.

The imagination of the viewer (or reader) ALWAYS plays a part. In a novel, you have to recreate the whole thing in your mind. In a comic book, you have to “animate” between drawings. In a film, you have to fill in between scenes. That’s how it works. And it works best that way, because makes the spectator interact vividly with the content.

Some Star Trek fans like every excruciating detail spelled out and listed to them in triplicate.

Things being left to the imagination are different to giant plot points.

The entire episode revolved around the time crystal.

What was the time crystal? Where did mudd get it? If there are magic rocks out there capable of controlling time why is the federation not interested in them to use against the Kligons?

It’s like in episode 3.
Why did they blow up the Galen rather than either put a skeleton crew on board to fly it back at warp to a star base or use a tractor beam to tow it along rather than destroy the only other mushroom prototype engine?

Where did the kligon ship go? The Kligons on board the Galen were killed by the space pig. But what happened to their ship? Why did the Kligons not tractor beam the ship into kligon space? Or if they could not do that destroy the Galen themselves.

Or like how in episode 4 it is revealed that the only kligon ship with a cloak, the coffin ship, has been left adrift in space for six months. What took so long for Kol or anyone for that matter to turn up and try and salvage a super weapon like the cloak.
Surely the first order of business for either the Kligons or the federation after the battle at the binary stars would have been to get their hands on the cloak. But instead they left it adrift for six months.

There is using your imagination to explain things and then there are plot holes.

The time crystal is called a McGuffin – it’s origins or even how it works simply doesn’t matter when it comes to the plot. McGuffins are used ALL the time in any form of story telling. Now I’m sure a novel will come out that fleshes out the time crystal, but that information won’t effect how “Magic” played out.

None of those things you mentioned are plot holes. Fill in the blanks. In a series or movie, every little detail cannot be fleshed out. It’s left to the imagination of the viewer.

So basically your saying that discovery is little more than a choose your own adventure book rather than being a proper story.
Come to a part that does not make sense, that not a plot hole. It’s merely an opportunity for you to make up whatever you want to solve the problem yourself 😒

No, it is like any other tv show or movie. If you want every detail handed to you, read a book.
In TOS, we didn’t know why the Klingons and Federation at war. Was that a plot hole? ANY tv series does not answer every question you have about it. Discovery or any show while allow the audience to fill in the blanks so to speak.

“In TOS, we didn’t know why the Klingons and Federation at war.”

In TOS, there was no war. The Organians stopped it before it could happen. But the reasons for the war were laid out by Kirk and Kor in just a few lines. Enough to give the viewer an idea of the political landscape between the two governments. There were no real blanks to fill there.

I agree with Isabella. There is a difference between a plot hole and a gap left for the audience to figure out how they got from A to B because showing such things is just not necessary to the overall plot.

Magical aliens saved the day. Makes sense. Where were these magical aliens during the Dominion War?

Who knows?
Maybe they were in the same place as the magic mushroom drive and the orcs of discovery?

Thank you.

Just curious, do you plan on watching season two? If yes, why?

Why did they blow up the Glenn?
– They’re in a war zone. Klingons with their powerful ships and firepower could easily defeat a skeleton crew flying a crippled ship.
– Who’s to say Glenn’s warp drive was intact?

And using your logic, why in the world would the Klingons destroy the Glenn themselves, if they want to know about the DASH drive?

Exactly why would the Klingons leave the Glenn unattended?
Where did the Klingons go?
Why did they not beam their crew back from the Glenn if they had to leave?

The Glenn was a super weapon, since the Klingon super weapon could left to lie adrift for six months for no reason given, was there no attempt at saving the ship. It was still in federation space.

Discovery was so sold as a more realistic serious well written serialized version of Star Trek, but it was not that.

Isabella, the Glenn wasn’t necessarily unattended. There was a Klingon boarding party aboard. Maybe a scout found the Glenn adrift, left a boarding party there to try to survey the systems, and went off to get other ships. They knew more Federation ships would come looking for it and maybe they weren’t a match for anything larger than a scout. Just a possibility. Also, they didn’t know there was anything special about the Glenn unless they detected something unusual when it jumped. Otherwise, it hadn’t engaged in combat that we know of, and the Discovery hadn’t made any significant jumps yet. So the Spore Drive was likely unknown to the Klingons at that point.

As for the Ship of the Dead being left there for six months, it makes sense that the Klingons wouldn’t come to the rescue. They were loosely united through war, but still divided. And while the ship did have the cloak, retrieving it would have been difficult with Starfleet ships going in and out rescuing survivors and salvaging their ships. The Klingons, particularly Kol, were likely monitoring from a distance, saw that the ship was being rebuilt, and decided to wait it out until it was in good enough condition to get it out of there under it’s own power.

But the coffin ship was the only ship with a cloak. Everyone both Klingon and federation would have wanted to get their hands on the ship.
Not wait six months till it was repaired. It would have been seized and repaired at a ship yard much quicker than being repaired with scrap parts.
Any way why would Kol use the coffin ship as his personal ship since it was taken out with a single shot. Since he had the ability to copy the cloak, why would he not put on an actual war ship?

There may have been Klingon superstitions or religious reasons. It was the ship of the dead after all.

If it doesn’t meet your expectations I recommend you contact the producers.

So what. Big deal. It’s a TV show. It’s good. Stop picking it apart. Just watch and enjoy. Please.

“It’s a TV show.” Fact.

“It’s good. ” Opinion. The people picking it apart are doing so because they feel it is NOT good. If it was, the inconsistencies would be largely ignored.

Agreed as well. None of those are plot holes. The author can argue they weren’t developed enough but it doesn’t make them plot holes.

How its destroying the Galen for no stated reason not a plot hole?
Or the disappearance of the kligon ship?
Or not getting the cloak for six months not a plot hole?
Or mudd having a magic crystal capable of reversing time and no one showing any interest in such a device not a plot hole?

What are plot holes then?
If something does not make sense within the story, it’s a plot hole.

GLENN. Not Galen. GLENN.

Also, KLINGON. Two Ns.

Isabella, it’s called using your brain, specifically your imagination and deductive reasoning. Do I know the actual reasons for many of these? No. But I can still think of possible reasons.

For the ‘problem’ of the Glenn’s fate, well.. it had to be removed from the area one way or another before any more Klingons showed up. So the options are, pilot it, tow it, or destroy it. Piloting it might have been too risky or perhaps impossible because of the damage it sustained from the messed up spore-jump. This damage was both mentioned and shown. Towing it could have been a risk, because it would leave the Discovery vulnerable if they encountered Klingons, it would limit their speed to something less than maximum warp, and it might not even be possible for the Discovery to effectively tow the Glenn to any significant speed. Plus, they might not have had enough time to assess the damage. Maybe the antimatter pods could have breached while moving it.

And in the end, it was the captain’s decision and the crew apparently found it reasonable, so that’s all we need to know. But you could even come up with some reasoning behind that. Like maybe Lorca didn’t want another spore drive out there. Let’s say the Glenn was patched up and flying again, resuming it’s research (since it was mentioned that Starfleet felt it was best to divide the research). This could have meant that Stamets’ attention might have been divided as well, slowing progress towards Lorca’s goal. OR, maybe he didn’t want the Glenn accidentally discovering the mirror universe, which would have surely grounded the Discovery. Whatever the reasoning, it could have been a potential threat to Lorca’s plan. So there are a lot of possible reasons, and they provided enough details to ensure it was explainable. That’s why it isn’t a plot hole.

The Klingon ship? It wasn’t there, so obviously it left for some reason. It wasn’t necessary to explain that, and since the last Klingon there was mauled by Ripper, they simply didn’t have an explanation available. But if we’re to speculate, they probably left the boarding party to guard the ship while they left to get more help to salvage the ship or tow it.
But then of course, Ripper killed those Klingons that were left behind.

If you meant the data on the cloak, well.. it was covered too. Discovery wasn’t there to provide it, so the Klingons still had the advantage of the cloak. When Discovery returned to the Prime Universe, this was explained. The Federation lost about a third of the fleet (if my memory on that is correct).

And as for Mudd and his time crystal, it probably wasn’t a priority for the Federation. They would have to interrogate Mudd, find out which race helped him acquire the crystal, and then ask them for help, which they might not even provide. That’s a whole process to go through just for a possibility of maybe gaining access to a time crystal, and then they would have to figure out what to do with it, assuming it had the ability to travel back far enough to matter. I’m sure the priority for the Federation at that time was coming up with quicker more practical solutions. But just because they didn’t mention this, doesn’t make it a plot hole.

Obsession with canon was a big reason for plot holes and straight out contrivances that were epidemic.
Trek is not a damn religion. If you need to pour out incredible amounts of opinion to debate your position then you have venerated the originals to the point of blindness.
Very few of us old timers raged back when TMP changed the Klingons or complained that the technology looked like it advanced a century and not a couple years. Most of us understood that an increased budget and advanced filmmaking technology were the reason.
Change is good. If they so offend you then simply stop watching.

THANK YOU!!! It’s just a show. A good one. Just enjoy the ride!!

“Change is good. ”

You can’t have progress without change. But not all change is progress.

Maybe that’s when Starfleet came up with the Department of Temporal Whatsis, just to deal with Mudd’s crazy time crystal. Good old Mudd, finding weird and profitable objects.

But using that logic then there are no such things as plot holes in film, tv or books because we can use imagination and deductive reasoning to work out any problem.
The fact that Superman 2 or Batman vs Superman made no sense…… that’s not a problem … imagination and deductive reasoning can make the film work. So all is right with the films.


This is what a plot hole looks like:

In TWOK, when the Reliant enters the Ceti Alpha system, how does it not recognize the distinct lack of a planet that used to be in the system? Even if Ceti Alpha V had somehow taken up the same orbit as the exploded Ceti Alpha VI, what are the chances that it would be in exactly the same point in the orbit that Ceti Alpha VI would have been at the exact moment they arrived?

If what Khan had said was true, the Reliant would have known that something was amiss with the system the moment they dropped out of warp and did a subspace scan.

Hubcap, that is indeed one of a number of plot holes in WOK. But we gloss over them because the movie was so very good!

How about this one… Kirk goes to leave the bridge after the attack. They run into Scotty holding his nephew. Why was he taking him to the bridge? Shouldn’t he have gone straight to sickbay? It was done for shock value. To convey to the audience the human cost of Khan’s attack. Even though such a thing made zero sense in the plot. Further, since they cut out the idea that Preston was Scotty’s nephew one wonders why he was so concerned over this particular cadet.

But anyway, the movie rocked so it’s not a big deal.


Re: Why was he taking him to the bridge?

The obvious answer was Scotty did not enter the turbolift with that destination in mind. If you recall after they beamed up Kirk from Regula I the turbolifts were not working correctly. If they still weren’t working properly after repairs, they certainly couldn’t have been working correctly when Scotty desperately resorted to using them in an attempt to get his nephew to sickbay expeditiously.

The real question boils down to what sane engineer enters an elevator during a fire? Answer: A desperate one.

But what do I know? I worked in a hospital in earthquake country that built a new multistory medical tower with visions of higher medical rents they could charge physicians. But when they couldn’t convince anyone to rent their high-priced suites the Admins desperately wanted to put it to some use so they could write it off. So they took the ground floor OR and put it up on the new tower’s 4th floor, then discovered the elevators there were too short in length to transport the patient gurneys…

Dis, that sounds like a desperate attempt to explain something that was only included so the audience could see the human toll of the attack. For the record, later in the film Spock told Kirk as he was heading for a turbolift, “They’re nonfunctional below C deck.” Nothing about not knowing where they would ultimately take you.

PS… Your explanation also requires the knowledge that Preston was Scotty’s nephew. That scene was cut, therefore no one knows Preston was, or even if he HAD a nephew.


You are right. Even if the humans were distracted enough somehow not to notice, how could the Reliant’s celestial navigation system not automatically post an alert about the discrepancies?

Maybe they just went to the coordinates of CA5 (and/or thought the mapping was off). Or just warped straight to the fifth planet in the CA system (sometimes they can warp in a system, sometimes they can’t). Or their long-range sensors are limited/lousy. Or maybe the records/survey data were old/incomplete/lousy. Maybe that happens a lot. I doubt the ship’s sensors would instantly detect and track every planet in a system (we’re still finding objects in ours now). And would it be procedure to measure the orbits of every planet in a ststem when you’re just going to the fifth planet for a couple of days? Again, it could have been decades since the system was surveyed.

That said, wouldn’t Chekov have made the connection earlier? (We dropped off Khan around here, didn’t we?). Although I guess all systems start to look alike. And there weren’t records. And Chekov has never been the sharpest knife in the tree.

(This bugged me as a kid, so I’ve been rationalizing for decades).


Khan is riddle with plot holes. What’s your point?

I never said it was a either a good film nor a well written film.

Pointing out that there are flaws in it, which there are lots. Does not take away the flaws from discovery.

There are far larger plots in khan that the missing planet.
Such as how the younger Superman not just survived but had big muscles in the wasteland that was ceti alpha alpha V.
Or why Kirk was so utterly stupid as to not raise the shields of enterprise despite the ship’s crew being little more than children.

Yes Dave now THIS is a plothole…and yes a truly bad one at that. I can’t imagine someone trying to get away with that today.

So a time crystal was not a priority for the federation 😏
A device for rewinding time would not come in super handy during a war for the survival of the federation? 😒
So your agrument is the viewer has the create their own solutions and interconnecting threads in order to make discovery work. But there are no plot holes in discovery 🤔
Okay then 😏

Maybe they thougjt it would be too dangerous, Jeebus.

I don’t think you were paying attention when Lorca ordered the Glenn destroyed. The Glenn has top-secret technology on board [the DASH drive]. Look to US Military history and you’ll find many examples of secret technology being destroyed so the enemy can’t get hold of it.

As to the rest of your points, asked and answered.

Exactly the Glenn had the spore drove, one of only two in existence.

The first priority would have been to save the drive and then if that could not be done blow up the ship.
There was no reason given in the episode for its destruction. The discovery could have contacted other starfleet ships to help protect it while towing it back to a star base if its wrap engines did not work. It was still on the federation side of the border. Instead of that they blew up one of the most important starships ever made no stated reason.

Disco’s away team salvaged what they could. It’s comparable with asking Scotty to bring back a warp core.

In YOUR opinion destroying the Glenn was a plot hole. Several of us here have figured possible reasons.

I could go through 79 episodes of TOS and find at least 70 plot holes, if not thrice that.

At least it wasn’t riddled with spelling errors like
“Kligons” across your posts.

That’s kind of a credability killer.

Standards are so low these days. The genocide plot at the end of Season 1 is laughable. It’s completely unbelievable. Or maybe we can go back to the beginning of the series– so the VULCANS came up with the idea to “fire first” on Klingons to gain their respect? Who TF is in charge of approving these plot threads? Is it the same people who decided that The Last Jedi’s plot and themes made sense? I mean people, what happened to STORY these days in popular Sci-Fi?? So long as we have diverse casts, a bunch of explosions and risky cliffhangers, we’re all set, right?

Standards are remarkably low these days. Agree with everything you said there, Sid.

Get a room you two.

The standard for rooms is so low these days, that’s their problem. :-P

LOL, oh god !

I bow my head to the greater wit.


Section 31 tried to do genocide on the Founders of the Dominion in order to win the war, and almost accomplished it. Starfleet officers stopped the plan on its tracks, by curing Odo and allowing him to go back to its kind. Why aren’t you complaining viciously about Deep Space Nine? Why is it that all past choices are forgiven, but Discovery somehow has to turn Star Trek into a very believable, hard sci-fi franchise in order to be accepted?

Because DS9 was… Good. Had interesting characters. Had great story story lines. This show, thus far, had none of that. The one character who was actually interesting they decided to make NOT interesting by saying he was really just a one dimensional evil mustache twirling bad guy bent on taking over the universe. (sigh)

ML, again, you HATED this series before a single second was filmed.

SO…you’re continued and incessant proclamations that NOTHING was good about it are a waste of time for you to write and the rest of us to read.

There is no credibility with your statements. And the rest of explaining it to you takes up space here for no reason.

The difference is.

Section 31 genocide plan made sense.
Discovery’s genocide plan not so much.

Section 31’s plan was logical and simple. Simply secretly infect odo who in turn infects the link.

Whereas discovery’ execution of the plan was so illogical. The fate of earth rests on the destruction of the kligon home world so they place the discovery not under the control of a federation admiral or captain or a section 31 person to carry out the plan. Instead they place the execution of the plan in the hands of a lunatic form another dimension? Why?

Isabella, on this point, we agree: Episode 15 was the lamest of Discovery’s stories.

Yes the season finale was painfully bad. Its like they ran out of episodes to come up with a fitting story and someone came up with that because they needed an ending. I have no interest to watch it again, ever.

The season finale was awesome. What are you guys on?

Not the stuff that your on.
Based on your previous comments, it must be pretty powerful stuff.
Powerful enough to make female orcs attractive.

I just value women.

Logic can be as cold as space, Sid. The “Vulcan Hello” made sense to them.

Even that made no sense.
Since Vulcan’s are part of the federation why would they not tell their allies in the federation how to deal with the Klingons?

The Last Jedi was awesome….

Season 1 was unfocused and the end of the Klingon War was unsatisfying (“My iPad is the boom stick which can destroy our planet so, hey, all bow before me!”).

It was OK, not great, nominations notwithstanding.

“Ultimately, the “it’s not prime” question is less important than the “it’s not good” problem.”

I’ve been saying such things for months. IF the show was better, the canon inconsistencies would be far less. That is part of the problem. (Let’s face it, even the consensus of the best Trek movie ever had issues, but few mention them because the movie was so darn good!) The producers did what they wanted figuring that if their show was good few would care about the canon issues. Their gamble failed. The show was sub par at best. Thus putting all the in universe issues under a HUGE spotlight.

Yeah, Wrath of Khan was full of plot holes. Fans have been overlooking those for over 35 years.

Exactly. They are overlooked because the movie overall is so very good.Sure, they get brought up from time to time. But it’s not considered a big deal because of the overall quality of the finished product. If Discovery had been better quality the picking at it would lessen considerably.

What canon inconsistency and what is not good. Try to use words and sentences. It might mean having to ask someone who actually watched the series.

If they’d just call it a reboot or reimagining then we’d all be good and friends.

@ Jordan – at least that would have been more honest. Still, I’m content to look on it all as occurring in an ‘alternate universe’ to the TOS settings and characters, rather than being the complete re-imagining of the source material it truly is.

Exactly. But they never officially have.

They have already called it a visual reboot. Move on.

@ Captain Ransom – ‘visual reboot’ is a misleading description for the completely re-imagined overhaul of the show they claim it ties in with.

Completely? I think you’re stretching there.

I think so as well Capt Ransom. TOS is over 50 years old. Our perceptions of what is advanced technology has changed quite a bit in 50 years. I remember Nimoy talking about seeing someone use a flip phone for the first time :^)

Oh pshaw, Jordan. You know how many people on this board hated the idea of the 2009 reboot?


@Arathorn — nah, they’ve already got it wrong. Pike’s enterprise uniforms were Green, Blue and Khaki. Not Yellow, Blue and Red. The war will rage on …

There was no green in The Cage or original pilot. It was only khaki-pinkish, gold, and blue.

You probably need to check for color blindness.

@Meeee — you know they found the color prints of the Cage, you don’t have to watch it in black and white and imagine the colors. The uniforms are objectively beige/khaki, blue and green. Both on set, and on screen.

In fact, what we consider the ‘gold’ or ‘greenish-gold’ uniform that Kirk and other Command personnel wore was in reality a light avocado green – it’s just that the TV lighting and the Eastmancolor film used for the series pushed colors towards the warmer reds, so greens got shifted to yellow. The Remastered episodes show this more clearly. (There was a dark olive green overall-jumpsuit used in The Cage, but rarely seen if at all after that).

Theiss wanted the uniforms to represent the RGB primary colours so they’d look more intense on TV (CRT screens being composed of a matrix of red, green and blue phosphor dots). Only Kirk’s wraparound tunic, which was a more intense green, came off as such on film / TV.

In the age of LCD and now OLED TVs, the colour gamut that can be represented is much wider than 1966 – in particular, OLEDs can reproduce greens and blue-greens that other screen types can’t even reach. It’s thus a creative/artistic decision as to whether to remaster the colours to match the actual materials used, or to reinforce the consensus idea of what the show “looked like”, going back to reference palettes of what the film stock could produce, directorial intent, etc.

In the popular imagination, because of this color shift, Command uniforms were “always” mustard-yellow, and so they’ve become canon. Decades of comic books and novel artwork, and occasional fanservice episodes like ‘Trials and Tribble-lations’ reinforced it further. The Kelvin Timeline films certainly adhere to the popular idea of gold-red-blue, with only a slight tweak to the palette when they changed to the high-collar, textureless fabric designs for Beyond.

I cannot say that one approach is “right;” it’s always going to be controversial. I am not a fan of the heavy color grading most TV shows and films use today, but it’s done intentionally. By contrast, look at the uproar over Disney’s ham-handed image processing when converting many of its animated classics for Blu-Ray; over-aggressive noise reduction not only shifted colours but completely obliterated delicate linework!

When digitization / remastering is done, it has to be done by informed people, with care, and with a preservationist’s eye – keep some unaltered masters around, so that we can then generate “opinionated” re-coloured / re-graded versions without permanently losing the originals.

@Fred — yes, I’m familiar with the history. Indeed it wasn’t just Kirk’s wraparound tunic that clearly registered green in the primary TOS years, but also the command dress uniforms. There were also green jumpsuits worn by technicians in the first season, left over from the pilots. However, I was specifically referring to The Cage. The command uniforms in The Cage, both in the original pilot and The Menagerie always looked green compared to the yellow/gold of the regular TOS uniforms. While it’s certainly up for debate — the colors are nevertheless not being represented correctly in DISC, if one adheres to visual canon continuity, for those arguing that. However, that said, we have no idea what the uniforms looked like between 2153 and 2165, so these could very well be it.

They won’t be any uniform change for Discovery crew.

HN4, Jaysus, I hope you’re right. I DO NOT like the color-coded uniforms. Hope they stick to Constitution-class crews only.

The royal blue and gold complement nearly everyone’s skin tone. As opposed to that gold color.

The first Discovery book pretty much said the same thing. The only thing the book got wrong was how it tried to explain how the Enterprise looked so cheap compared to the Shenzhou.


It’s not Prime. Costume changes can be easily explained away, how an iconic hero ship design changes is ridiculous.

Are you still on this ‘its not Prime’s kick? Give it a rest man. You’re like a dog on a bone. Can you whine about something else for season 2 instead?

Well… If it acts like a duck, sounds like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, it’s probably a duck. No matter how many people around you try and tell you it’s a horse.

It is prime.

Lord Jaysus, ya know what??

I don’t CARE if it’s Prime or not. It’s got a brave crew who have Starfleet values, encounter challenges, and overcome them.


I’m still not convinced with all the time traveling into the past of the Prime that has gone on in prior productions that fans actually “know” the current state of its visual history, in terms of EXACTLY when what can happen where, with the certainty they believe they have that somehow all that time travel hasn’t change the look of the ships one iota. But I’m willing to muse on their concerns with their differing expectations from that of the Discovery show runners.

For example, they could be complaining about different detailing by different engineers with different priorities.

Pike, had the E for multiple 5 year missions before Kirk, and April before them both. And a few things were abundantly clear: Scotty wasn’t the E’s engineer for the years (decades?) prior to Kirk, various details were in fact different after Scotty got his hands on her, and even at 10 years out from Kirk, Pike’s E is not a new ship and may have undergone a couple of refits.

I was born in a decade where teens took classic automobile bodies and chassis from the 30s and 40s, changed the detailing and tuning to turn them into “hot rods.” As I recall, most of the parts were still classic from the old car era but no one had concerns about hand modifying or otherwise reconfiguring them, across different old car lines even, to make something “cool.”

They were still basically old cars put together with old car parts but the customization made them unrecognizable from any 1930s or 40s factory specs.

Also, I’m not sure of Pike’s war readiness footing, but it is not unheard of to modify a ship’s appearance to attempt to intimidate the enemy or make them falsely conclude that it is capable of far more than it can actually muster. I remind you of the Romulan literal “warbird” intimidating artwork detailing.


I really love their production design

Yes. I think we are in for a smorgasbord of visual delights. Can’t wait to have my mind blown and pupils dilated…

It looks like they’ve adopted a color scheme that echoes the original series.

wow i like the look and feel so far

Oh I am totally digging the uniforms, Enterprise interiors, and control panels. And kudos to the eagle eye who spotted the room code for Spock’s quarters!

Yeah, that was quite a catch. Amazing to me even now that some people are so into this stuff that even with a 45+ year-pedigree, by comparison I hardly feel like a fan at all.

Me too. I feel like I need to turn in my “Nerd ID Badge” on that one. I never would have known Spock’s quarters’ number.

And yet, someone in the production did. That’s a hint for the naysayers. ;-)

True. But then, I’ve never been one to deny the passion that at least some of the producers obviously have for TOS, or the sincerity of their commitment to make a great show. What I do have to seriously question, in the aftermath of at least some of their creative decisions in season 1, is their ability to pull it off. I’m not optimistic, but time will tell.

Because they make an obscure reference to TOS does not excuse them from the insanely bad plot choices they made in season one. Quite frankly, I’d rather they get all those little numbers wrong or not make any references at all like that IF the show they were making was actually really good. It IS a fun reference. But it won’t make the show good if it’s not.

Actually, if they wrote a story you liked but got details wrong, you’d be here incessantly complaining about.

I understand you hate the show because it wasnt being sent to you ona disc from Netflix. But the irrelevant complaining is too much man.

You seem to be in the minority.


TUP Wins

Oh, no…That is the kind of stuff they brush off as “token”….

Those uniforms are so much better looking than discovery’s. Hopefully they will change the discovery uniforms to these new ones.

There the same uniforms in a different color.

But with black pants, which makes a big difference.

It makes them look …

Let’s just say I like the blue ones much better. They look like a proper uniform to me. I know I’m bucking 50 years of tradition.

I like the blue. I think they make a lot of sense as evolutionary cousins from Enterprise (and even the JJ films alternative unis in Beyond).

But them all being the same gets a bit…not boring, but less interesting over time. The TOS ones will always have a special place in fans’ hearts.

I actually like the STD uniforms better than the TOS ones. That said, if the show is set in the TOS or pre-TOS era it needs to at the very least FEEL like it belongs there. Nothing on screen in Discovery says TOS. In fact, it actually says KU or Post-Nemesis more than anything else.

I like the Discovery uniforms, they feel like a nice evolution of the the NX-01 uniforms but yeah, I totally hope you’re right.

They would be a nice evolution from the NX-01. IF the show were set perhaps 80 years earlier. But it’s not. It’s set in an era where we all know what Starfleet uniforms looked like.

@ML31 — pointless nostalgia. I don’t want to see actors in baggy velour turtlneck sweaters and tight polyester pants in sci-fi produced today.

Actually I think they were tight poplin pants, but YES, I AGREE SO MUCH.

@Marja, right. They didn’t add the sparkles until the series started. Of course, the CAGE wasn’t a real time period, but a story told during the early 1960s and the art direction for that presentation reflects that. Since it’s not a real time period, the look is completely open for interpretation during whichever era in which the story is told.

Yeah. So if they do a show or movie set in WWII then I don’t want to see those 40’s styles because they just look so bad. Set it in the 40’s but have everyone wear modern fashions that look good. Those fashions are just pointless nostalgia.

You seem to be confusing fiction with actual history.

No, I’m using actual history to make a point. The fictional world already established what their own future “history” is. STD abandoned it all.

Discovery has not abandoned any of the established fictional history of Trek, far from it, they are taking the disjointed, contradictory, and unrecocilable fictional history of Trek and making something approaching consistency with it.

They only thing they are being consistent with is their own show. None of the others. And certainly not the show they claim to share the same era and universe with.

ML31, Then you have not bothered to actually watch any of it or you would not say such idiotic and utterly wrong drivel.

Well how can I argue with such flawless logic? I could have sworn I watched it. But hey, if some anonymous guy on the internet says I didn’t then I guess I didn’t.


Things on bit torrent labeled STAR TREK DISCOVERY aren’t the genuine article? Live and learn.


Re: No, I’m using actual history

No, you are not. Because there are only a handful of WW II based movies were most of the military equipment the Axis were using were anything close to 1940s period specific, and at that it’s usually the equipment of their opponents.

One of the reasons for that was the Allies made the losers thoroughly dismantle their military apparatus so that it could never be used to attack them again.

So in most WW II movies in the studios’ catalogs the Nazis and Japanese are unashamedly depicted fighting with out of era more modern allied equipment just painted with recognizable symbols of the Axis powers. The technological visual discontinuities made more egregious by the studios interspersing actual WW II battle footage where the looks are clearly disparate.

I recall one WW II movie where they actually found some working period Brit Spitfires to use. But for the Japanese Mitsubushi Zeroes they just painted the left-half of the Spitfires with Japanese military insignias because apparently the good guys fly on screen like they read: from left to right. And in case you were wondering, Spitfires and Zeroes look nothing alike.

But the difference is even though there are anachronisms in the WWII scenes you mentioned the established look and feel of the era is still maintained to all but the most eagle eyed nitpicker. STD does not even come close to the established look and feel of the era they claim to be a part of.


Re: the established look and feel of the era is still maintained

No it isn’t, because, as I said, as each year passes they just grab what latter model aircraft and vehicles are the cheapest to use. No studio maintained a stock of Patton tanks painted with Nazi insignias that were consistently used in most Hollywood WW II flicks.

And what’s weird is when it came time for STAR TREK to depict Nazis they could have easily gotten away with non-period accurate vehicles in PATTERNS OF FORCE as they easily could have explained them as chosen by Gil as the closest Earth models to the Ekosian successful commercial auto designs or vice versa. But instead, because they chose to use Nazi newsreel footage for the Ekosian broadcasts, they use WW II period accurate vehicles, but the newsreel footage clearly shows the “Ekosians” heiling an, unmistakable to the episode viewing audience, Adolf Hitler Fuhrer, who looks absolutely nothing like the Ekosian Fuhrer, Gil!

@ML31 All I’m saying is that they work for me as Star Trek uniforms but yeah, I’d prefer something that looks a little bit more TOS. The nerd in me would have loved it had they adapted the Cage/WNMHGB uniforms for Discovery but the realist in me accepts that they couldn’t realistically be expected to adhere to the design used in just 2 pilot episodes. Let me put in another way, if they ever do a post TNG show would you expect them to use the uniform designs first used in All Good Things?

Corinthian, I hear you can can agree with much. A direct copy would not work. But it does need to FEEL like it belongs in the era that has already been established with a certain look and feel. Discovery did none of that. They did their own thing and basically said, “screw the TOS era. We need to look like our own show even though we are telling everyone this is the era we are in”.

How do you know what unis every ship was wearing at this time? We’ve never seen anything that indicates what unis looked like at this time.

They look like tight Russian jogging suits.

@Meeee — or LOST IN SPACE costumes.

I could not disagree more.They are at least the same cut, but I like the royal blue with gold, silver or bronze accents.

The two-tone uniform really feels … irrelevant now.

I do have a particular fondness for royal blue though. It compliments most skin tones, and is a color I wore proudly in the USCG in my career.

We wore trousers that matched the “blouse” [jacket]. Imagine that!

17+ year Auxiliarist. CG Blue is a bit of a mixed blessing. It’s a very particular shade. Whenever there’s a supply shortage, we end up with AF uniform items, only to have them disallowed later. Some things, like the woolly-pulley and cardigan, are only manufactured in AF blue. And then you have Auxiliarists buying commercial ODU-knockoffs in a shade too dark, and before that Carhartts with the labels removed.

Season 2 wish – every episode should end with a TED talk by Burnham (slideshow optional). I was thinking, the “Discovery” in the title can really be about Burnham “discovering” herself by “discovering” the serendipity that you just can’t explain with “science.”

En Ingles, por favor.

Galt, go away.

Sort of the opposite of the ‘mr. science’ at the end of season1 seaQuest, where Bob Ballard would explain oceanography in 30 seconds. The more you know, y’know?

It would be great if this show reinvented itself to the point where I would never even consider watching Season One again but would still consider it an excellent show in the long run. Writers, that’s totally up to you, because from what I’m seeing so far they’re visually nailing it for season two, at least inside the ship(s).

You just described exactly how consider The Next Generation!!

No blinking lights on the Enterprise. Do we riot now?


I love how the production designers are updating the look of everything while maintaining a retro vibe.

I also like what I’m seeing. I would probably fall into the camp of preferring more accuracy to the original series, but understand why they want to update it for a modern audience and am not letting it ruin my enjoyment of the show. However, the one thing I really, really hope they stay very faithful to the original is the Enterprise captain’s chair. That is just too iconic to mess with! In my humble opinion of course :-)

What, with the push buttons and toggle switches? Meh.

Push buttons and toggle switches were still in use from ST: TMP through Star Trek VI.

It’s not the 70’s anymore.

TUC was made in 1992. And it STILL looks good even today.

It would have looked better if they got rid of all those old people. It’s Star Trek not The Last of the Summer Wine.


“As in all ships’ doctors are dirty old men.” – Gene Roddenberry, THE CAGE

Yes it does, ML. A fine send-off for the (entire) original crew, and very re-watchable, imo.

Um, it was produced in 1991.


Are you trying to push our buttons?

I’m not into that.

Neither is it the ’60s or ’80s. Although, I thought we would see the same uniforms seen in the two pilot episodes of the original series, but….close enough. I love the new uniforms! So stoked about “Discovery” season two!

There are real-world reasons for push buttons. We have tech to eliminate them now but they are still used.

story over canon for ever!

Well, I didn’t get the call to play Spock, if anyone was wondering. And yes, I am bummed. (In fact, that blueshirt to Pike’s right looks a good deal like Quinto.)

I wonder if they’d play with us by having Spock in scenes but only seen out of focus, from behind etc. That would sort of be hilarious.

This is why I went out of my way to get their attention! They wouldn’t have even needed to show my stupid face!

In all seriousness, why blur out Spock? What do you gain by that? Either use him or don’t. I see no narrative advantage of half-assing it.

I don’t see that happening. People would riot lol. I’m guessing that’s not Spock or they would’ve announced the actor like they did for Pike.

I am excited to see all this, but a part of me is thinking: “Please don’t leak too much ahead of the official release of season 2. Save the surprises for us. Let some mystery remain…”
I don’t want my experience of Season 2 to be anti-climatic because so much has been teased and promoted and previewed beforehand. I want to be swept off my feet, just like I was the first time around, because I had had no exposure to anything Discovery before accessing the series on Netflix last year. Not even the trailers.
Let me re-discover Discovery, ya know…?

If you don’t want to be spoiled just avoid websites like this one (or at least don’t read the Discovery articles). You say that you hadn’t even seen trailers before watching season 1. This suggests that you made an effort to stay away from information back then. You can do it again.

Going cold turkey from…?
That is one tough assignment!
But it may be the only way, you’re right.

It is fun to joke around, but in all seriousness, Grilka and I are praying for Alex Kurtzman- this gig is important for him after his MUMMY lost $100 million, destroyed a studio’s “cinematic universe”, and deep-sixed Bill Condon’s Bride of Frankenstein. Remember, Alex, if you want to be an auteur like J.J., don’t forget to keep shining a flashlight into the lens.

Sometimes I swear that you are channeling me.

The Mummy. Oh, man. How soon I forgot.

That one lost me at the trailer. Then again, most Cruise movies do the same, though I have a soft spot for the first M:I, and think he was good in TAPS and THE COLOR OF MONEY (playing himself in the latter two, maybe?)

Still think that if Kubrick had cast Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson instead of Cruise and Kidman in EYES WIDE SHUT, he’d’ve had a better movie. Yeah, that’s second-guessing The Master, but the only other good alternative (since he wanted a real-life couple) would have been Uma Thurman and Ethan Hawke.

What? No, Jerry Stiller and Ann Meara?

Jerry Stiller would certainly work for the ‘eyes’ and ‘shut’ parts of EWS.

I wish I had that mind blown emogi available! I’m so excited but we got a long wait still. Love the new and old uniforms. Love the new aliens and if that is a Saurian, very cool.

It probably is meant to be Spock’s quarters, though logically they may well be No.1’s if quarters are assigned based on rank and position.

How much do you want to bet that’s the last shot of the episode? We’ll never see Spock but we will capture a glimpse of his quarters.

Its possible. I suspect one storyline will be issues between Michael and Spock (And Sarek and Spock). With Michael imploring Sarek to see Spock and patch things up and his refusing. Something something something…Michael finally decides to visit him to sort out their issues.

She walks into his quarters and we hear (but do not see), Spock’s voice welcoming her “It is agreeable to see you again”…doors slide shut, end of episode.

As one who very much hope(d) they would leave the main characters of TOS out of Discovery altogether, that may be a deal-breaker for me. We know quite well Spock and Sarek had issues; that has been explored ad nauseum in TOS, TNG and two of the films. I still really don’t see the need for Burnham to be Spock’s step-sister, or how it serves the story. Didn’t do a thing to pique my interest in season one.

Dan, after watching the entire first season there seemed to be little reason to make Micheal Spock’s adoptive sister. Save for one episode (ironically the best episode of the season) it played such a small part of the season that that whatever minuscule connections that got Sarek involved could have easily been replaced for with a dozen other reasons.

It was just a pathetic attempt to link the show to the original series. Just like having the Enterprise show up at the end. It’s as if they are afraid to do something on their own.

I remember when people thought John Harrison was the villain in Into Darkness and when we saw the shot in the trailer of cryo-tubes people said “the ending could be Khan (original actor likeness) inside the cryo-tube!!

I thought that was a cool idea. Then the film went insane.

i love the fact that the original TOS uniforms look a lot like what they did for the Kelvin Timeline Uniforms for Star Trek Beyond. Nice Nod.

Looks nice. But you’re distracting me, Discovery. Now I just want a show about Pike and the Enterprise. ;-)

I’ve seen a theory Number One could be the new captain. I like that idea. And if not that, at least finally give the woman a name, okay.

Number One becoming Captain of Discovery would be interesting. Would they keep her cold and logical as was her description (giving those qualities to Spock when they dumped #1). It would be cool to see a Vulcan-like human Captain.

Especially if the series is meant to be more about the Commander on down. You could have Michael, with her own Vulcan up-bringing, understanding the Captain who maybe doesnt come across very warmly to her crew.

Somehow I don’t think they would go for two Vulcan-like females in the lead roles. Just too similar.

@Diginon — I agree, however, it might also make for some interesting self exploration with two logical characters working a problem out from different perspectives every episode. Have we ever had two Vulcan-like characters in a show like that before?

Saru may not be purely logical, but his characterization is certainly usually measured, calm, and alien. His values are Starfleet, but they do go out of their way to show that ‘I don’t think or do things like a human’ factor. Saru and Burnham together are two outsiders, and the friction / sibling rivalry between them generates a lot of interest.

She got a name in the first [not so great] “Discovery” novel by David Mack.
Number One.
Commander Una.

Get it?

Saurian looks awesome

The rank stripes and insignia are very Kelvinverse.

I definitely do NOT like them playing Pike’s complaining dialogue, some of Spock’s key lines from TOS … it feels like a cheat.

PLEASE let Discovery stand on its own two feet. It seems to me they’re relying on the Big E to save them from something.

Okay, maybe to save them from the lame ending of Season 1. BUT STILL.

I agree.

I think it’s okay to bring back a broad element from what we’ve seen before, like TNG reintroducing the Romulans at the end of their first season. But Pike and the Enterprise is, potentially, too big a distraction, too much a… canon crutch, so to speak. We’ll see…

“Canon crutch?” Fascinating.

Thats a good way to describe the JJ films. “We needed to free ourselves from canon” and then leaned on that crutch constantly!

Yup, and TNG fell against the canon crutch early in its run, too. Remember when they remade “The Naked Time” right after the pilot? Ugh.

Yes but I think TNG learned its lesson early on and stayed away from direct TOS story lines after that, which for a show that lasted 7 years is pretty good. I always point out it was actually DS9 that reused the most TOS story lines from Khan to the mirror universe. I think Enterprise comes a close second, especially in season four. But TNG really stayed away from them although they probably had the most TOS cameos, especially when you count Generations.

Especially, and MOST regrettably, with Khaaaaaaan

I disagree Marja. Its not that they’re cheating. They are embracing the fact that Discovery is but a chapter in the 50+ year story of Star Trek.

Okay, TUP, but I want to get back to Discovery, Stamets and his cool DASH drive, and FIND PRIME LORCA ;^)

Marja, that is what I was thinking when they ended with the Enterprise tease. It felt like the show knew they were failing and it was a desperate attempt to keep the fans interested. As if they knew they could not continue if they kept the focus on the Discovery. It was a HUGE mistake in my eyes. It was as if they gave up. Defeated. Plus, all it does is open up more cans of worms.

Marja we all know it was inevtable they were going to play the TOS card the second we learned Burnham was Spock’s sister. It probably came a little sooner than we were all expecting but it was always coming.

Frankly I’m fine with it (although I prefer for it to stand on its own as well) but I think its smart to do it now so we won’t get five seasons of “Where is the Enterprise?” They can do it now, get all the fanboyism out the way and move on to something new.

And I kind of imagine the Enterprise would be used the same way Superman is used on Supergirl, ie, show up here and there once in awhile but make it clear its still Discovery’s show.

Guys, Spock is missing, kidnaped by the Logic Extremists following their failed attempt to kill Sarek. Pike was informed by Starfleet that Sarek was aboard Discovery, so he has contacted the ship. He may or may not be aware Michael is aboard but he is aware of her relationship to Spock (established in the first Discovery novel).

One of these panels reminds me of an old station wagon from the 1970s, with fake wood paneling on the outside.

As limited as the photograph is in revealing who, that looks like Quinto as Spock!

Discovery should always have been about the adventures of Pike.

Pike? The guy that spent the rest of his life making out with a girl that looks like a melted cheese sandwich?

She only looked that way to YOU, HN4. Pike saw only lovely Vina.
Unless the Talosians crapped out and died, in which case he’d love Vina for her sterling personality.

She will always be a melted cheese sandwich to me.

Playing devil’s advocate, if you’re the producer brought on to craft a vision and the studio says they want it to be Pike and Spock on the Enterprise, you might feel constrained. We know Pike’s fate. We know Spock’s fate. We know the fate of the ship.

If the series is wildly successful and lasts ten years and then spins off into a film, you’re butting up against the history you know.

Personally, I love the idea. Especially after 2009 came out and Pike was so good. It made the character more familar to a wider audience.

BUT…my choice was Captain April. The marketing would be a brand new Enterprise, fresh out of space dock, for the first time ever.

With April, he’s not even really canon and TAS doesnt count so you could do anything you want with him. His fate isnt set. The only thing that is, is the Enterprise makes it but you can play up the idea WE know the ship becomes a legend, but at this time its brand new.

My second option was an Enterprise B series. Again, you have a brand new ship (so their “re-signs” wont aggravate people as much). You have a GREAT starting point with Generations. The series would continue right after Generations with Captain Harriman, somewhat disgraced and guilt-ridden trying to command a ship in the wake of Kirk’s death. You could have a new Captain too if you want.

You could have Demora Sulu (so a connection to TOS). And you could have guest stars of TOS cast without it seeming too gimmicky. You could even have Uhura or Sulu plant the seed in Harriman’s mind that if anyone could find a way to survive, it’s Kirk…and the underlying story is Harriman’s quest for redemption and his nagging sense that Kirk might be out there somewhere.

The fate of the E-B is not cemented in canon so you can literally do whatever you want. Plus you have the cool WoK unis!

I think an Enterprise B series could be excellent as well, TUP. There are so many years between Ent. B and TNG that have yet to be explored, and the time period(s) would give writers plenty of room to stretch their legs without bumping into established canon every time they turn around.

If those corridor sets really belong to the Big E (which seems more than likely), they appear to be aiming for a TMP-like colour scheme, wouldn’t you say?
I love TMP and all stylistic elements associated with that film (barring the uniform design). But once again, I have to wonder: Why?
As I just pointed out, I really like the design per se and I sure will take a good story over an overly faithful 1:1 reproduction of the 1960s look (which would have a disruptive influence on a show that aims to touch on darker and more serious subjects – let’s not kid ourselves there; what worked for Trials and Tribbelations and In a Mirror, Darkly would hardly work for an entire series) anytime. But at the same time I’m of the firm conviction that if you generally and overtly deem the 1960s look too dated for modern television, you just don’t choose the pre-TOS era as a setting. And hence it still baffles me that one would just go and say: “Yeah sure, it’s the prime timeline. Never mind the fact that everything looks completely different.” (and let’s not dwell on what can be considered “completely different” and what can be considered “just a little different” – it’s a fact that every “classic” asset of the show has been designed pretty much from scratch and how much of an “informed design choice” there was varies from ship to ship, from set to set and from prop to prop).

I’d have loved them to faithfully recreate the Enterprise sets like they did in ‘trials’ and ‘mirror darkly’, but I know they couldn’t have done that credibly in 2018. I’m in total agreement with the timeline – why say you’re going to be faithful to it and yet throw the visuals and some of the characterisations out of the (viewscreen) window? Apparently some Trekkers don’t mind the fact that DSC looks nothing like the way it’s previously been presented on screen despite the last 4 spinoffs staying faithful to the TOS look when it came up, and that doesn’t affect their enjoyment of the show. For me, I’d have preferred that they just said ‘yeh it’s in a different quantum reality – see “Parallels” for our inspiration’. I actually liked looking at what they’d changed in episodes like Parallels or All Good Things or Yesterday’s Enterprise where we saw alternate universes or timelines (how cool is the Yesterday’s Enterprise 1701D?). I think they’ve missed a trick here in desperately clinging to the “it’s prime” fallacy (and I tangentially mean ‘pathetic fallacy’ by invoking an emotional response to something that looks vaguely like the Enterprise… I’m reaching, I know…). A new universe would also have allowed them to throw canon to the wind altogether as has been said by others far more eloquently than I just did! But… there’s also the fact that some people were *ahem* rather upset by the 2009 reboot (which never bothered me because alternate timeline). So I think they might have been trying to keep everyone happy and I think it’s not going too far to say that they failed in that regard. Especially because the stories weren’t strong. I’d have forgiven much of the visual stuff if DSC had been engaging. As it was, the whole series (with one or two exceptions) blurred into one long dull angst-fest. Cheer up, Michael – your backstory has been retconned like Star Trek’s visuals have! :)

Here is another discrepancy, Dr C. They say STD is a “visual reboot”. Yet they encounter the Enterprise and from these shots it doesn’t look like it was given the same level of “visual reboot”. If the show was a “visual reboot” then the Enterprise needs to get the Discovery treatment to keep things consistent. It makes me think these show runners want to have their cake and eat it too.

@ML31 I agree. I’ve expressed the idea before that the Enterprise looks out of place in the Discovery continuity. Why is she blue not gold like the disco? Why are her nacelles round not square? The rest of the fleet (that we’ve seen) has square nacelles. Why doesn’t the Enterprise saucer look like it spins? Etc. Being told “it’s not a reboot it’s prime” reminds me of when we were told “Cumberbatch isn’t Khan”. He was Khan. Hopefully the stories in season 2 will be better so the visuals won’t matter as much.

@ML31 also, it occurs to me that the Klingon ships are also part of this “visual reboot” that has bypassed the Enterprise and made them look like something from “Earth Final Conflict”. Why make the Klingon ships so different looking yet say “ah but we want to introduce things that are familiar, but check out our *awesome* new Klingon D7 design that’s a giant black mess of cgi nonsense”. On the one hand they’re saying “familiar is bad” but then they say “don’t worry it’ll look like what you know”. Cumberbatch was Khan dagnabbit.

Holy cow… The Klingons are so un-Klingon like that it feels like a stretch to call them Klingons. They should be some new race of Karpoxians or something… The ships are different. The tech is advanced. And they don’t even look like any Klingon depicted in an Trek incarnation ever.

Definitely. Which I wouldn’t mind if they’d given us an awesome story featuring the Klingons that expanded on the current lore etc (which we were promised iirc). Instead I felt they made the Klingons rather one dimensional. And the ships… the ones I could see looked so unlike what we’ve seen before. The producers clearly want to get away from Trek The Elder. Which is why the logic of not admitting it’s a reboot escapes me. Ah well, fingers crossed for season 2!

I mean, they HAD to know that by putting the show in the TOS time frame, calling it canon and then making it look like it belonged post Nemesis was going to be scrutinized, right? Yet they are now acting as if they are annoyed with the need to defend every one of their creative decisions. It’s almost as if they has NO idea what they were getting into here. And as was said before, if they just admitted this was a reboot, or just set it post TUC or post Nemesis, nearly every single canon and production design issue would vanish. All they would be left with would be defending their poor plot decisions and writing.

Dr C,
I wish they’d just say “reboot” and be done with it

Totally agree. I can’t wrap my head around the concept of a “visual reboot”. It’s like if I was to do an adaptation of Pride and Prejudice, but I set it in urban London and had them all wear jeans. But the story, characters, and events would all be the same and it’d still be set in the 19th century. No, the jeans and urban London aren’t anachronistic. It’s a visual reboot.

The term “visual reboot” makes no logical sense. It’s a reboot. And I’m ok with it being a reboot. The insistence that it’s prime is… puzzling. The point of the reboot was to get *away* from prime. And nobody (even those on the “get over it” side of the argument) have been able to come up with a coherent reason why the producers of disco would want to align themselves with something that they’ve changed because they seem to want to be different from the original. My guess is that they want to redefine what *all* of Star Trek is. They must be really embarrassed to call themselves Trekkers over at DSC since they seem to be so desperate to say “the old stuff wasn’t really Star Trek, our sexy, cool, new stuff is”.

Ah well, I’ll live with it I suppose. The whole “prime/reboot” argument is completely pointless at this stage because what’s done is done. Come on season 2 let’s have a damn good story (please!).

Yes, Dr. C. I would be totally find with a full on reboot. Nothing wrong with that. And since the show is continuing at this point I’m just hoping we get an adequate story. The, the showrunners, set that bar VERY low after that dismal first season.

Exactly. That’s all this is, a reboot. I don’t know why they are so afraid of calling it that? Last I checked, reboots seems pretty popular today.

It’s because some ST fans are kooks that write death threats when they can’t get their way.

Because TMP looked great and TOS was the 60’s.

That includes the huge, ugly bits of plywood on the backs of all the refit bridge chairs…!

I suppose the lesson here is: if you enjoy the story ignore the visuals :)

Actually, if you compare the pictures of the updated corridor with the picture of Nurse Chapel outside Spock’s quarters, the color scheme is the same. You can see that the orange is just near the ceiling in the picture from TOS.

TMP is the same color scheme as “The Cage”. Roddenberry finally got to make the show look they way he wanted it to in 1964, but NBC had other plans to sell RCA color televisions.

And good grief was Roddenberry’s visual scape boring as feck. Grey, white, beige … I’m afraid I found it rather depressing. And those uniforms … yikes.

@Marja — he likely had some support in that. It looked like 2001 ASO. I suspect that’s the look they were going for more than anything. I actually liked many of the uniform variants. But agree there were some that just didn’t work. I still think TMP is the best looking bridge with the CAGE closely mirroring. Roddenberry wanted that bridge round too, but it was going to cost too much to build.

These images are about what i was expecting of the Enterprise in the DSC visual continuity.

And a couple of people have already asked this kind of question below so sorry for retreading it but I’d like to throw my hat into this ring as well. The question I’d love to put to the producers of DSC (in as non-confrontational a way as possible) is “what is the benefit to *them* of saying that this show is “prime” whilst at the same time having it be totally different visually to the rest of the prime timeline?” If they’d said it was a reboot would people not have watched it? I watched all 3 Kelvin films at the cinema multiple times (even into darkness, which I dislike – but it’s a better film than Nemesis, which I hate), and I’m a big “prime” universe fan. For comparison, I’m a fan of the CW-verse shows (don’t judge me). A favourite is The Flash. Now I know that the CW show isn’t a sequel to the 90s Flash. I also know that Grant Gustin’s flash isn’t the same as Ezra Miller’s flash in the justice league movie. They even establish a multiverse in the CW shows – which is why I’m devastated there isn’t more interaction between Flash and supergirl. Anyhoo – there is an established multiverse in Star Trek. Would people really not have watched DSC if they’d have told us it was in an alternate universe? If TOS is so camp and cheesy and sexist and embarrassing that we need to change everything about it (except obscure references to superior episodes of other series in the franchise – I’m looking at you, Mintaka III reference) why anchor yourself to that show? Brand recognition I get – the kelvin timeline stuff did that quite well. But why say you’re going to respect canon if you *want* to do different things? Is it for our benefit as trekkers? Heck, if they’d said it was a reboot I’d have been much more interested to see what they’d done with it rather than thinking “they’re not going to respect the original shows the way TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT did”.

I will include a coda here stating that if the *stories* are good in season 2 I will have converted to the “canon doesn’t matter stories do” group.

Also I’d prefer to get around it than over it.

P.s. I know tone is opaque online – this isn’t a rant, more a musing. Maybe you’ll find it amusing…

The phrase is “have your cake and eat it, too.” They are trying to lure in as many demographics as possible to optimize earnings in a for-profit enterprise. That entails cashing in on whatever cachet the previous series holds among a devoted fan base.

Thinking about it, it totally smacks of that. I wonder how it’s working out for them? I think the Rotten Tomatoes audience score is still down for DSC – makes me wonder what non-Trekkers think about it. I would guess the divisive nature of the (visual and characterological) reboot wouldn’t necessarily make it a runaway success among Trek fans, so tptb are presumably hoping for a general audience to watch the show in large numbers too?

My guess, Dr C is that not many non Trekkers are even watching it. There was precious little promotion for the show AND the service. Even Trek fan I personally know had no idea the show even existed until I told them about it.

@ML31 that wouldn’t surprise me (although it would be a shame – I’d prefer that DSC be really successful so we get tons more Trek!). It could do with getting a reputation as having a really awesome story like some other shows on Netflix so that it hooks non trekkers in…! After the first season, though, I’m not hopeful of that unless they *really* raise their game in season 2.

Why would non fans watch it? That’s an odd criticism. Do you arch shows you aren’t a fan of? I don’t.

A reboot would have been pointless. You’d still have people complaining but they’d be complaining about “why is this a reboot”.

I maintain that Fuller didnt care and wanted to change everything. These current show runners DO care and you see them trying to bring the show back to a more familiar environment.

Where we agree is that people would have complained in any event. Can you imagine the commotion if they’d have faithfully recreated the TOS aesthetic?

Where I don’t agree is that a reboot would have been pointless. A recent Star Trek reboot made a ton of money and arguably made the franchise culturally relevant again. Would we have DSC without the kelvin timeline films? I doubt it.

But, the one question I’ve yet to encounter a substantive answer for is: if TOS is something to be avoided (in terms of looks, evil characters, sexism and general cheese), why would the producers align themselves with that universe at all? Why not do a reboot that looks like Star Trek like the KT where they can make all the rules? When is a reboot not a reboot? When it’s Discovery? Why bother making the show more familiar if the familiar aspects are what they’re trying to get away from?

If I update my windows, the operating system registers a new version of the software. Windows XP to windows vista was a whole new program. A windows service pack on the same version of windows is essentially a visual reboot. Discovery thinks it’s a service pack. In reality it’s Vista.

(Ok I’m teasing now, but hopefully you’ll see where I’m coming from!)

I did, Dr C and I agree. I don’t give a fiddler’s fart if it’s Prime- or Alt-verse. I’m rather sick of the debate by now.

Give me a crew with Starfleet ethics, a Federation with Starfleet, blah blah, Vulcans, Humans, Andorians, Romulans, Klingons and others, and moral and ethical questions along with mind-bending sci-fi and I’m happy.

There is no debate. There is only fact and falsehood. It’s prime.

Surely you already said it, but the first image seems a nod to the first scene of Kirk in The Wrath of Khan.

Interest piqued. If they can fix the writing I may resubscribe. I wonder why the Enterprise uniforms are neoprene or the like–looks as though they would stand up in a corner like a pair of jeans last washed in 1979. And what’s the deal with having two different uniforms? Wear test or mid-transition? No wavy sleeve braid?

For the same reason the uniforms changed between STID and STB
(or ST:TMP and ST:TWOK)
(or ST:TNG seasons 2 and 3)
(or Generations and First Contact)

…because they can.

@Praetor Tal — The Cage didn’t have wavy sleeve braid. That didn’t happen until after WNMHGB. As far as that goes, TOS had two different uniforms — the older Cage style, and the newer TOS style. Kirk even had a wrap around tunic. And don’t forget the dress uniforms.

No, I get that. It’s just they’ve introduced the 2-1/2-stripes for captain insignia. In The Cage all officers had one (straight) stripe, in WNMHGB, the captain got an extra stripe (for a grand total of two). It’s a convention that is a decade early.

But maybe that’s part of the “reimaging” (sic)?

@PT — and I get that. Again, they’ve already long since left behind the visual continuity, and plowing forward with an updated look. It’s still evocative of TOS, and in some respects in keeping with visual canon we’ve seen where both old and new uniforms were worn together at the same time. If you really want to complain about these uniforms, there was obviously no red (we saw), lots of beige (they haven’t hinted at), and no yellow/gold, but instead clearly greem command uniforms.

The only thing I was complaining about, per se, was the neoprene fabric, or whatever it is. And then only on behalf of the actors–Trek has a history of cramming its actors into uncomfortable uniforms. And, yikes, catsuits.

The producers have been steadfast in saying Spock will not be recast, but I wonder if we’ll see Spock in CGI?

If they use Quinto, then technically, Spock would not be “recast” since it is accepted he is currently playing that role.

If I remember correctly they said that they don’t want to recast out of respect for what Nimoy and Quinto did in the role. Doing Spock in CGI would essentially mean getting an actor to play the scene, then replacing the actor’s head with Nimoy’s (or Quinto’s) head and asking a CGI animator to ape Nimoy’s mannerisms while creating a new performance. That doesn’t sound very respectful to me.

They are getting this series right … I like it and I am TOS die hard

My face when I saw the Enterprise uniforms:


In principle, I consider returning to the aesthetic design from Star Trek: The Original Series as a major step backwards — that said, at some point Starfleet MUST “evolve” from the uniforms worn during Archer’s time (which inspired the uniforms worn in the first season of Star Trek: Discovery) to the style worn during Kirk’s time as captain of the Enterprise. For such an evolution to take place during the second season of Discovery makes sense.

It wouldn’t be the first time we’ve seen the uniforms worn by Starfleet officers change from one season to another. TNG and DS9 did it all the time.

I just hope the designs don’t look outdated to pander to nostalgia, but that they truly look modern/futuristic.

I was 9 years old when TOS premiered. As “The Menagerie” is my favorite episode, and I, as I am sure have others, have been eager to see much more dimension given to the character of Captain Christopher Pike, I say bring it on. It will be brilliant, you all will see.

Ok so I think I am posting what EVERYONE is thinking……….

Let’s have a show with this Pike and Enterprise..Spock and all and screw Discovery….

Burnham transfers over etc….

Now this is what we want!…

No Spore Drive X. No Fake Captain Georgia/Lorca… No fake Klingon debacle…

Burnham and a certain Dark haired beauty fight it out for Number 1

As for Spock? Recast him!…… Zach Quinto does it every 3-5 years its not like he is the ultimate

Where were you when I was begging them to cast me?

I agree. There is no reason NOT to recast Spock if you need him.

I’m telling you, I could do it!!

C’mon Discovery…… no one cares about the funky looking Disco……. the new “E” is gorgeous and you can increase viewership 50% or more by making it the Pike Enterprise…

Jus sayin……. after seeing the new uni’s and Pike and the “E”……… I want that ship….. not the fungal Disco

it all comes down to getting it right….. the JJ verse in many peoples minds was shite but then Beyond came out and then the new A and peeps were like…. yeah this is finally good shit.

So now Disco is giving us TOS Uni’s and and a HOT Enterprise including TOS movie style interiors and peeps will be like- yeah…. this is good shite but I want this not a Disco ship

I am like, let the Disco rot and let’s do the “E” with the current cast….

We get it, you don’t like the Discovery, you like the Enterprise. Jesus. You literally posted this 5 times in 10 minutes.

Michael Burnham: The Most Interesting Woman in the Fungal Multiverse® OR The Quadrant’s Most Soporific Sleep Aid? Find out in the next installment of Star Blecch: Dysentery, available only in Mad Magazine.

Now you’re just trying to hard with your trolling. It wasn’t really funny before, but this is sophomoric at best.

Looks like the Shenzhou bridge is no more, possibly in favor of the Enterprise bridge?

So L’Rell takes up gardening? Good for her! But now I expect to see a side plot in which she has to figure out how she can prevent wild targs from trespassing and eating all her flowers! :-D

THe series is a muddled mess. Only a complete change of direction can save it. It lives in an SJW world of negativity and spite . It is progressively unwatchable. Netflix’s series Lost In Space wipes the floor with as far as entertainment value is concerned.

Have you ever tried that browser plugin that replaces “politically correct” with “treating people with respect?” Maybe you should.

It will reveal how much the websites you go to — if you use the term SJW seriously, you’re probably a Breitbart reader — are invested in maintaining systems that create a highly unequal status quo.

That’s really what people are asking for. To be treated with respect. And for the playing field to be un-tilted.

To not gloss over oppression and injustice (historical or current), but rather to face it head-on, and acknowledge the truth so that real reconciliation and progress can happen.

Recognizing that ‘straight white male’ is not a pejorative, but neither does it necessarily need to be the default lens through which we view the entire universe, and tell stories to each other with, and assume to be ‘the average normal person’ when statistically it’s an Indian or Chinese woman, going by population…

How was Discovery at all spiteful and negative? It showed us some pretty realistic and complex characters within a sci-fi adventure show context – I’d be the first to say it’s not ‘This Is Us’ realistic but for Star Trek it’s kinda deep. People are infinitely diverse, infinitely combined, and infinitely complicated. Society is complicated. Inter-species relationships / diplomacy is going to be even more complicated…

Would you prefer it be black and white (…or just white?) and simplistic?

I’m thinking the best way to incorporate Spock as he would have been in the time of the Discovery series would simply be via Nimoy’s voice. Example: “Pike to Enterprise.” “Enterprise, Spock here.” Something modest and not “in your face”. Of course, they could recast, but I’m betting they don’t. As to Pike, their casting choice (based on look alone) seems great. He bears a striking resemblance (at least enough of a resemblance) to Jeffrey Hunter.

Love it! Cant wait for Season 2!!

Very disappointing. The new Enterprise uniforms do not look the same as the original Pike era uniforms so why make the change? Either this is an alternate timeline or this is not. I understand the need to upgrade some of the technology but there was no need to upgrade the uniforms. Since the producers don’t care to replicate the original enterprise uniforms (they are only making them somewhat similar)then why bother at all? Most importantly, why are they using KIRK era uniforms as their point of reference (BLACK collars) as opposed to PIKE era uniforms (COLORED ribbed collars)? This makes no sense. All this does is muddy the waters. I don’t mind subtle changes (updating the rank insignia, etc) but the collar is a major mistake. They should have gone all in in replicating the Pike uniforms which would have been pleasing, or just kept them the same as the Discovery uniforms and thus establish this as an alternate timeline. Watching the video was a very disappointing experience. I still won’t subscribe to CBS since they don’t seem to care about the fans. I know there are a lot of fans who don’t care about the changes but why alienate the ones who do, and lose such a large contingent of potential subscribers?