The last couple of days has seen a lot of news regarding the future of the Star Trek film franchise. On Wednesday at CinemaCon Paramount’s CEO Jim Gianopulos announced the studio has two Star Trek films in the works and yesterday it was reported that they were in talks with director S.J. Clarkson to helm a follow-up to Star Trek Beyond, which was originally announced in 2016. All reports agree that this ‘Star Trek 4’ follow-up to Beyond will continue the story of the Kelvin-universe crew, with the addition of Chris Hemsworth, returning to the franchise as George Kirk.
The cast of the Kelvin movies is expected to be reassembling for a fourth film.
Tarantino Trek is “separate”
The second Star Trek project Gianopulos spoke of on Wednesday is the one that has actually been creating the most buzz in the last few months, following the late 2017 reports that Oscar-winning writer/director Quentin Tarantino pitched an idea for a Trek movie to producer J.J. Abrams. The latest reports say that script (being written by Mark L. Smith) is not finished, and any resulting film is expected to follow the ‘Star Trek 4’ film.
There are also a couple other tantalizing clues about that Tarantino Trek movie that got a bit lost in all the buzz yesterday. According to The Hollywood Reporter:
Paramount is also developing a separate Star Trek movie that Quentin Tarantino would direct. The latter is understood to be set in a separate timeline.
And while there was little discussion of it in Variety’s exclusive yesterday, the reporter who wrote the story (Justin Kroll) followed up on Twitter to say Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek film is “still happening” and would come after the ‘Star Trek 4,’ project. He also stated the Tarantino film “would be seperate [sic] from Pine world and could essentially reboot new set of films.”
So for those asking, yes QT STAR TREK film still happening would happen after this latest film, would be seperate from Pine world and could essentially reboot new set of films.
— Justin Kroll (@krolljvar) April 26, 2018
Tarantino’s Trek project may be separate from the adventures of the Kelvin-verse USS Enterprise-A
Start of a new era?
If the reports are true, the Tarantino project could expand the (to coin a phrase) Star Trek Cinematic Universe, possibly establishing a new setting and crew or maybe the first in a new series of anthology movies. These new films could run in parallel with the Kelvin-verse cast films, or as a follow-up to a final Kelvin film. After three feature films spanning a decade – with the fourth yet to come – it seems reasonable for Paramount to consider how to wrap up the Kelvin movies while keeping the franchise going, as it has been since 1979. It may be that Paramount is finally catching up to other studios, and planning more than one film ahead when it comes to their big franchises. In fact, the studio has already started to do this with regards to their Hasbro partnership.
Even if the Tarantino project is something different, and even if it does set up a new wave of future films, it is still possible it could include some of the Kelvin movies cast. Both 1994’s Star Trek: Generations and 2009’s Star Trek reset the film franchise with new crews, but also involved actors from previous Star Trek features as a form of hand-off.
Over the last few months, Kelvin-verse actors John Cho, Karl Urban, Zachary Quinto and Simon Pegg have all talked about the possibility of appearing in the Tarantino-inspired Star Trek film. Pegg even noted that after Tarantino’s pitch, producer J.J. Abrams reached out to the cast, saying:
“We all got this email the other day from J. J. Abrams just sort of saying, ‘um, oh guys, Quentin Tarantino came in the office and pitched this and we’re gonna think about it.’”
Generations handed the cinematic torch from the TOS to TNG crew
Star Trek vets ready for Tarantino’s “wild” idea
There remains no actual story details about the Tarantino pitch. The only clues may be from a 2015 interview Tarantino did with the Nerdist podcast, where he speculated that some classic Trek episodes could make for good feature films. The two examples he cited were the TOS episode “City on the Edge of Forever” and the TNG episode “Yesterday’s Enterprise.” Both of those of course involve history changing through time travel.
If time travel is involved, then pretty much any era is on the table, and the Kelvin cast aren’t the only Star Trek actors who have expressed an interest. Both Sir Patrick Stewart and William Shatner have said they would return to Trek for Tarantino. And recently at a con, TNG actor and director Jonathan Frakes revealed he reached out to J.J. Abrams to ask him about the Tarantino project, saying:
I asked [J.J. Abrams] if it is real and so far it is real because they put a writer’s room together and he said “Quentin said it is going to be wild.”
Jonathan Frakes and Patrick Stewart in “Yesterday’s Enterprise.”
For now, the only thing that seems close to certain is that the Tarantino Star Trek project is something for further in the future. Not only is the script reportedly not ready, but if Tarantino is interested in directing, then he couldn’t really start on the project until he completed work on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is set to be released in the summer of 2019.
To keep up with all news about the future of the Trek film franchise, check out the TrekMovie Upcoming Movies category.
Please, QT! Make it TNG era!
It would be good to see Jean Luc and Data again but I guess Patrick Stewart is a little too old to just be a Captain of the Enterprise again. Maybe Admiral Picard will make an appearance.
Shatner didn’t exactly look like a model when he did Generations. Then again, although Picard was a popular character, I don’t know if he’d be in the same league as Kirk was after 30 years off air and still being able to get large numbers of people into theatres. If by some miracle he did come back though I’d like to see august Picard – super intelligent, sharp and emanating instant authority. Not the dumb action hero Stewart insisted on trying to turn him into for his own ego in the movies.
And although they tried to work the idea of Data’s skin aging into one of the movies, realistically speaking an OAP android would look ridiculous, so Data would have to be CGI.
I’m not sure that the general public would care that much about Shatner appearing in a Star Trek movie. It was nice having Nimoy in the Kelvin-verse, but I don’t think that was the reason that people went to the movie. Stewart is probably a bigger name at this point, what with X-Men movies still being fairly recent. I think we’d have to skip Data, but perhaps Spiner could play another ‘relation’ to Data, similar to Noonian Soong. But I think this speculation is irrelevant, the time has come and gone for more TNG movies, as much as it pains me to say it.
Actually, the general public is all about nostalgia. Stewart is not a bigger name in Star Trek than Shatner.
I wouldn’t have a movie like that STAR Shatner, but with CGI, he could play a younger version of his character, from any era.
So could Stewart and Spiner for that matter.
mwz, I’m not prepared to claim that Stewart or Shatner are bigger names than the other. But I AM prepared to claim that Kirk is a far more recognizable character name than Picard among the non fans of the franchise.
What are you talking about? Dont you read any? Generations was a “failure” without TOS involved… even Rick Berman confirmed that because he was afraid TNG wasn’t strong enough on it’s own feet without TOS characters joining in… Sad! Plus It was KIRK that saved Picard, Not Picard himself… Come on bro!!!
How about that Data put the OAP additions on himself so he could have an experience of looking old? As part of trying to be more human…
Back in the series, Data said he was updating his appearance daily. That was to explain his human aging.
Just use a body double for Brent Spiner and recreate the face with CGI. It would work on for an android character.
I’d be fine with that. Maybe even a total, dare I say, reboot.
well it would be B4. Yikes
Even setting aside Data’s death in Nemesis, it would be difficult for him to play Data or B4 since the character is an android who supposedly doesn’t age. Brent Spiner himself said he wanted the character to remain youthful. His ageing from the TV series was still obvious under make-up even in 2003 though I suppose CGI age masking techniques are far more advanced than they were then.
Nothing like sliding in the old “Mortality chip” (upgrade or downgrade?) the ability to age would seem to be something Data would wish to employ in his deeper quest to be more human… seems easy to explain…
I always thought an easy solution would be to have data upload his program into the Enterprise computer. The crew could interact with him via audio mostly, but if he needed to be seen, he would emit a holographic image. The holographic projection could be translucent and grainy in order to diminish the uncanny valley. Like so
@RMB — but that was never Data’s intention. He wanted to become more human, not less. For him, uploading himself into a humanoid would be the ideal solution.
That’s a decent point. Anthropomorphism through a humanoid structure would be ideal for Data. I’m just thinking of maintaining a role for Brent Spiner without having to explain his aging.
Yes would love another film TNG era OR post-TNG era. Or go even farther if you have to. It’s Star Trek, sky’s the limit! ;)
Please avoid TNG era. It might as well be a radio show since all the action would be played out on the ships intercom system any way.
LOL tell that to the Dominion or the Borg.
Pipe down. Isn’t the dumbification of Star Trek with Discovery enough for you already?
Hope it’s something with a real TOS feeling. The closest we ever got was The Motion Picture. All the other movies always felt “off” to me. TOS always had more of an alone in space feeling, smaller, a dystopia masquerading as a utopia. Relatives far away, tiny quarters, inedible food cubes…and that’s just on the Enterprise. Everyone in TOS is miserable in one way or another.
I guess that’s not very epic for a movie though. Maybe if they did Voyager properly, with the ship falling apart over time and everyone becoming desperate, taking riskier and riskier deals just to survive, as well as conflict between the two crews.
Thai is unpopular but ST V was more TOS like than any of the original movies.
True. Given an editor it could have made a nice episode. Insurrection too.
I think the mistake they keep making is that they try to stretch one episode’s worth of story out with unwanted padding instead of combining two potential episodes. Saying that, I think QT is the best shot for pacing an episode for the big screen.
Star Trek V has a lot of great moments.
With a decent special effects budget it might have been considered a passable trek movie. I liked that the film was really carried by the original cast, and everyone got something to do. Those cast members were often overshadowed by temporary players in the earlier movies (Decker, Savik, Marcus, etc).
I think Star Trek V was the closest that the movies ever came to a real TOS episodes, especially with some of the wonkier special effects. The camaraderie of the main trio was the best and there were good emotional moments. They took the jokes and gags overboard with the success of the previous film. (Scotty hitting his head, Uhura doing fan-dance, endless decks etc..) Still there was something charming in the simplicity of the film.
The interesting thing about the gags in TFF is that most of them worked in that film. Most of the gags in TVH fell completely flat. And that film was TRYING to be lighter…
plot-wise, TMP was definitely the Trek film (and yes, I love it to bits! It’s the one Trek film which I only learned to fully appreciate once I had reached adult age though), but in terms of character interaction the following films did a lot better.
What’s really funny here is that both TMP & STV are rehashes of TOS episodes, The Changeling for TMP, & The Way to Eden for STV.
They need to get the current film franchise on track before they start making alternative ones.
I don’t think it would involve the same characters in a different universe as it would be confusing and sort of silly
So I suspect it’s either a TNG era or is related to the Kelvin films but spun off as a result of some time bending scenario in Trek 4 (which brings back George)
I have to say a movie about the E-c, Capt April/Like or the era between the nx01 and tos would interests me greatly.
I’m beginning to wonder if the QT film(s) will be a ‘mash-up’ of all Treks. Boundaries between universes breaking down, time itself folding in on itself, some sort of alien menace behind the whole thing. With Frakes describing it as ‘wild’, it seems unlikely that this will be a nice, quiet, character-study.
That we can use to jump back to prime universe, the star wars model would be in testing as well. Star trek: Battle of Hubius Seti 3 (A e-c story), Captain April or First Discord..etc.
I’m not following some of your thoughts here. What is an ‘e-c story’? And what is ‘First Discord’?
EDIT: Ah, does e-c mean Enterprise-C?
EDIT #2: A-ha! Is “Hubius Seti 3” supposed to be Narendra 3 from Yesterday’s Enterprise?
Enterprise C and first discord was just a made up movie title a rift first contact that could be in Luke’s era after the cage
That actually seems pretty believable. Most of his movies are essentially epic “mash-ups” of elements from vintage cult series and subgenres. Very easy to imagine him doing that with Trek’s vast universe, especially having fun with all its various retro motifs. And if he’s so keen on time travel and alternate universe stories, you could work a lot of stuff in there…
I Heard a Similar Rumor that said a Future Star Trek movie leading into a Future Series would involve a Multi Universe War with some mysterious Threat and everyone would be fighting each other.
“After three feature films spanning a decade – with the fourth yet to come – it seems reasonable for Paramount to consider how to wrap up the Kelvin movies while keeping the franchise going”.
It does make sense. While I like the Kelvin cast, 3+ years between each movie is a long time. Gone are the days when they could crank out a Trek movie every 2 years.
Now could they still continue the Kelvin films? Sure, but I think they need to do what the Star Wars, Marvel universe films is doing and release secondary films too. So if this Tarantino idea is the way to release films in between the Kelvin films, then it actually maybe a good thing since it would keep interest in the franchise going and even expand the Trek universe.
I seem to recall an old Roger Ebert review where he didn’t like a certain Trek film and said something about setting it way in the future.
And in a way he was right. Set it at least a few hundred years after anything we’ve seen before. New time, new setting, fresh ideas.
Yes more trek wiuld be good maybe mirroring star wars with off shoot movies about different eras, captains and even ships.
Is anything known about the era between the nx01 and April’s E? Did it take that long to name another ship the E?
Not much, this is the era of the Franklin, Archon, Essex, Horizon, and later the Kelvin. If there was another E, it would have to have been a non-Federation ship. I don’t think the date for the NX-01 decommissioning has ever been established has it?
“The last couple of days has seen a lot of news regarding the future…”
Not really. Nearly everything said in this article has already been said. Too much hype too soon is never good.
You guys better hope #MeToo doesn’t take down Tarantino. (Only a matter of time)
The cynic in me thinks this is why Paramount are keen to employ a female director for the next Kevin universe movie…
I’m actually surprised more Hollywood bigwigs haven’t been ousted at this point. It seemed like there was a new one every other day last year. Did they get them all?
If Tarantino has sexually harassed or raped anybody he should be taken down. I don’t know if there are any allegations of that sort against him. If there are, and if they are true, then even if you like his movies that’s no excuse for such behaviour. So your hope should be that Tarantino hasn’t done such things, no that he isn’t found out.
I heard some news about him regarding #metoo earlier this year but it seems to have died down for now. That doesn’t mean it won’t pop up again. Look how long it took to take down Cosby.
QT seems to have weathered the Weinstein storm…so far.
Tarantino is just going to reboot TOS in his own image. This article is pure speculation. Casual moviegoers don’t care about TNG.
What’s pure speculation is the supposition that a return of Picard couldn’t be marketable in the right context (I’m not saying he should be the protagonist). Patrick Stewart recently gave a widely-acclaimed performance in a film that grossed over $600m. Stewart was featured prominently in the marketing of Days of Future Past and Logan; the notion that he couldn’t help a Trek film is hogwash. Granted, they are running out of time, given his age.
I don’t think people watch those xmen movies for Patrick Stewart. I remember seeing the first movie when I was a kid, but it really didn’t grab me.
Not all the people, but there are certainly a group of people who watch it for Patrick Stewart. I think most well known actors have certain audience that follow them in all their films. The numbers might not be huge, but they are certainly there. Of course, I am mostly talking about adults here. Children usually just watch the films for entertainment value.
All the highest grossing x-men have him starting in them including beating films staring jackman alone.
Yeah because the performance of the kelvin films and the career perfromance of pine show sthat the case 😒
I doubt the casual audience cares much about Star Trek in general. I don’t think they care who is actually the Captain or what time line it falls in, only that its not too nerdy and entertaining, hence the Kelvin films.
And TNG all had hit films minus Nemesis, because it sucked.
80’s/90’s nostalgia is at its peak right now. Most regular people I’ve talked to around my own age (35) have pretty fond memories of TNG and are pretty indifferent to TOS. (I’m only into it because I was a super nerd as a kid.)
nostalgia sickens me
The last 10-20 years of Star Trek must have really gotten your goat, then!
USS Galactica maybe?
I am always going to like TREK, but the decisions being made by TPTB are just not resonating with me. I haven’t seen one hour of Discovery yet because I still maintain they should have followed DS9s lead and stayed away from another ship-based series. From what is being implied, STAR TREK 4 seems to be about time travel… again. This approach does nothing for me either. It’s been done to death. Very little interest. A fan suggested George Kirk really wasn’t killed and this could be the direction they are going. As farfetched as this sounds, I would rather see it than a time travel story. And, what of Tarantino’s Star Trek Project? More time travel? TNG involvement? Oh, dear. I am a TREK fan and I will see all of these new iterations, but at the core of my heart, there is just zero excitement and expectation.
I do hope we get another non-ship based show again. What I love about DS9 is that it was like no Star Trek we ever seen before or since. It just felt and looked…different. I don’t blame the other shows for following TNG and TOS in how they are presented. But for me, I like it bold, innovative and different, which is why ironically TV is such a much better medium to do than films, ESPECIALLY when it comes to sci fi.
But I’m honestly excited to hear about QT idea now. I think like many it was assumed to just be a Kelvin film. Now that we know not only is it not that but takes place in yet ANOTHER universe makes me giddy. I want Trek to bold, different, diverse, vast, pushing the boundaries, etc. And why I’m not **too** hard on Discovery because while I have some issues with it for sure, I do like they are attempting to do something different with it, even if its yet another starship that is trying to capture nostalgia but at least they are doing it on their own terms even if I still disagree with some of it.
Speaking of a movie in the Next Generation era, how about a spicy violent Tarantino movie revolving around a grown up cussing/womanizing sex crazed Captain Wesley Crusher and his gallant starship crew?
In this day and age, people would be up in arms over a film like this regardless of the fact that whether it is good or bad. Especially the sex crazed part would make some people grab their pitchforks.
Yeah we’d be up in arms, that idea sounds awful lol
After the long uncertainty of whether we were actually going to get any further big screen TREK anytime soon, this news of 2 forthcoming projects is a real shot of ‘magic blood’ in the arm!
At this stage I’m ready for the possible last adventure with the JJ-verse crew, and look forward to having Chris Hemsworth onboard again. And I’m ready for a possible tear-jerker where he ends up having to ‘go back’ and die too soon all over again…before we then await the ‘wild’ ride that may come with Quentin’s favoured storyline.
Never will there be a better possibility that we may finally get a last appearance with either Shatner or Stewart (or both) somewhere in the proceedings. And if some kind of moment can be made for the excellent John de Lancie too (most likely non-‘Q’), then all the better as far as I’m concerned.
Either way, I’m ready for Quentin to take this franchise boldly where it’s never been before…even if it means there’s as many f-bombs as Discovery let slip! Bring on those funky new uniforms, a better proportioned ‘Enterprise’, and even a new ‘universe’ if need be…but just make it all make sense, with no damned ‘Beastie Boys’ involved!
I think if it’s the last KU movie then it’s more likely that the Enterprise crew will be sacrificing themselves so that George Kirk could live and the prime timeline could be restored. A Yesterday’s Enterprise style story would solve the dilemma of how to bring back Kirk snr and how to write out Chekov.
I don’t think it would be anything like that. It sounds like it will just be a time travel story involving Kirk’s dad. I don’t get what people’s obsession is about ‘restoring’ the prime timeline? Its in a different universe, just let it do its own thing.
Tiger2,
But if time travel creates a new universe as you suppose, then there’s no mechanism of time travel for George Kirk to pop back into existence and the film stays in the KT. The film will leave the KT, which it can’t return to, and transpire in yet another universe. So it is impossible to do its own KT thing after that.
The ONLY mechanism to go back in time, resurrect George Kirk on the Kelvin, and stay in the same universe is one where the timeline can be repaired or restored. But if they can do that then they aren’t in their own separate universe as you’ve been supposing.
So if time travel rears its ugly head in the next film then it’s the end of the KT universe adventures, one way or the other.
@Disinvited — thank you for making the argument I’ve been making since Orci started spreading his alt universe propaganda. Introducing this model of time travel into Trek, means no more stories like COTEOF, or Yesterday’s Enterprise, First Contact, et al. — at least without the unfortunate reality that there’s nothing to fix, only manipulating a new universe to more closely resemble the one they left.
Fortunately, the Kelvin Universe is NOT canon, having only been defined off-screen, which means the Prime timeline is being overwritten per traditional Star Trek time travel rules. That means it can, and should be restored.
LOL did you just say say ‘alt universe propaganda’ with a straight face? This is why we fans get the reputation we get. ;)
I get it you don’t like the KT universe, but it is canon. And nothing is being ‘overwritten’. CC I have challenged you several times on this and you seem to ignore them. How can it be ‘rewritten’ and yet we now have Discovery? Clearly they aren’t in two of the same universe because in Discovery the Enterprise is much older like the Prime universe so please explain that? My god, even in the face of direct evidence you say this like its some kind of fact. Clearly its not, right?
Unless you are suggesting the Discovery is not in the Prime universe.
A. We dout know that will happen though. Sure its obviously possible.
B. Even so it wouldn’t just restore the old timeline if George Kirk lives. He wasn’t significant to the time change, Nero living was. Vulcan can still get destroyed but yes that’s why time travel stories are fun! Maybe it will or won’t.
C. I’m not supposing anything. Thats what the writers said, not me.
Tiger2,
Re: What the said Writers said
The writers, plural, said no such thing. Only one ex-writer, Bob Orci, claimed to have read a tome covering the Quantum Mechanics of time travel and further claimed that he understood the equations perfectly enough to describe such a possible mechanism.
“My tour of duty ends completely the day this movie [STAR TREK BEYOND] is released” — Bob Orci | December 16, 2015 2:28 pm |
comment-5289597 of the comment chain for trekmovie.com article, ‘Justin Lin talks Star Trek Beyond; Villain name revealed ‘ by Brian Drew
His opinions on cannon hold no more weight than any other ex-writer of STAR TREK. And if Kurtzman had laid any claim to comprehending those equations, he walked away from Bad Robot BEFORE Orci did.
So will you please stop with the specious canon “writers say” reasons. STAR TREK Canon has always been about what happens on screen and NOT what happens behind it. Out of respect, the fans have tried to accommodate Roddenberry’s views on canon, but the man was marvelously inconsistent. He claimed the filmed Emmy-winning animated STAR TREK both was and wasn’t canon, and radically changed the look of things with no nods to a canon explanation, saying only that it had to look good on the 70mm screen [for an example see:TMP Klingons]. NO other writer of STAR TREK has EVER held that much canon sway. And even at that, fans have not taken every view of Gene’s on Trek canon as gospel.
What is with you people? It takes place in another universe. My god, why are you so adament its not? Its all fiction, who cares???
Look you now have the KT films and Discovery. Do they BOTH take place in the same universe? Because from what I see Discovery has zip in common with the KT universe as that history is completely different from Discovery’s. So I don’t have to believe the writer, I can simply follow the canon we literally have on the screen. In KT universe, Kirk inherits a brand new Enterprise that Pike just had maybe a year or two since it was recently built. In Discovery however Kirk is nowhere near this Enterprise and its probably at least several decades old according to prime universe canon.
So which is it man? If KT films are the SAME universe as Discovery (and supposedly the others) then explain why they are completely different in terms of canon? And if that means that the KT films are not in a different universe, does that mean its Discovery that is in a parallel universe? I’m going to be honest, I can really go for either of these. ;)
But seriously its a very simple question that CC seems to avoid like the plague and you seem to also avoid. Maybe a year ago you could make these silly claims but CBS has made it QUITE clear they are two different universes. Once again, maybe this is why you should stay away from prequels. ;D
Tiger2,
Re: BOTH take place in the same universe?
Your inability to comprehend how time travel works in the Prime Universe makes me wonder that you actually enjoyed all of the other STAR TREK productions that you claimed.
What you have is an English language tense problem in regards to the alternate histories that TOOK place in the Prime Universe.
Your silly argument boils down to claiming that Paramount had to pull the episode, THE CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER, after it aired because Kirk and Spock fixed the timeline and once that happens Paramount lost all ability to tell the part of the tale that took place in the alternate timeline that no longer exists. This, no doubt, despite the fact that Spock emerged from the Guardian’s planet with a tricorder full of alternate history.
Also, you seem somehow to be unable to grasp that when time travel into the past of the Prime creates an alternate timeline that its effects extend all the way to the end of the universe and time itself. It doesn’t just solely create an alternate historical past, but a complete alternate future as well. Why you insist tales that unfolded in an altered future that once existed absolutely can’t be told or continue to be told mystifies me?
It’s as if you seem to be trying to argue that a tree that falls in the woods didn’t actually fall because no one was there to see it when most of the Trek Prime time travel ends with one or more people remembering both timelines?
Yes I enjoyed them all, including Discovery. Why would I lie about that?
This is nerding it up on a ridiculous level, even for me lol. Yeah different writer changed the rules. Get over it.
And John Eaves himself all but made it clear about the films being in another universe because it gave Paramount more freedom to do whatever they wanted. This was discussed right here just a few weeks ago:
“After ‘Enterprise’, properties of ‘Star Trek’ ownership changed hands and were divided, so what was able to cross TV shows up to that point changed and a lot of the crossover was no longer allowed. That is why when J.J.’s movie came along everything had to be different. The alternate universe concept was what really made that movie happen in a way as to not cross the new boundaries and give ‘Trek’ a new footing to continue.”
This guy has been involved with Trek since DS9, he seems to get the concept just fine because according to him under legal reasons it had to be different. And its ALSO why it will never be ‘fixed’. You guys seem to forget Paramount can’t play with the prime universe like CBS can, so why in the world would they destroy the universe they make the profits on and make their stories any way they want? Its no way they are going to ‘end’ the KT universe in Trek four when they are creating comics, novels, video games, etc around this universe.
AND it also might explain why Tarantino’s Star Trek film may be in yet a different universe altogether as this article spelled out because they can’t use the prime universe for his film idea either and maybe its too radical to do in the KT one (which means we might have FOUR universes now! Cool!).
Lastly Simon Pegg, writer of Beyond, explained in deep detail how Sulu was gay in the KT universe and not the prime also proves he wrote Beyond under the same criteria Orci and Kurtzman did, that’s its not the same universe. So there, even if Orci no longer has any say in these films, other writers and producers has followed what he created anyway. My guess is mostly for legal reasons.
Of course I do find the irony when it comes to the KT universe and the Discovery universe. People who hate the KT films want them to be in prime for some reason. And the people who hate Discovery seem to not want it in prime for a different reason. Maybe they should switch?
That’s why these boards are fun! ;D
Tiger2,
Re: John Eaves said
Oh, so after my thoroughly dismantling your “writers said” behind the scenes canon authorities you’re trying to stop the bleeding with “the ship art designer legal experts say” and they’ve been practicing law since DS9? ROTFLMAO
Re: Sulu was gay
OMG still trying to resurrect your “writers said” canon baloney after switching to the “the ship art designer legal experts said.” Give it a rest.
Besides, Pegg never said “KT Universe” in talking about his gay Sulu, as you falsely assert. He said “TREK Universe”.
Need I also remind you that in your reasoning ex-STAR TREK scriptwriter Pegg has to be in a position to be able to control canon as your yourself exasperatingly kept claiming the others could? Pegg said he isn’t writing any of the scripts that Paramount’s considering. He hasn’t even said that he’s been hired for any position in any of the next STAR TREKs.
Look, not even you are arguing that an altered timeline did not occur. You aren’t even arguing that it can’t occur in an universe. You are
just irrationally asserting that the KT can’t be one of the timelines in the panoply of timelines that the Prime Universe has contained, just because.
Yes because the writers who create the stories said it. That’s how it works man. I was making the point John Eaves and everyone who has actually worked on these films all seem to agree its in an alternative universe. Can you find anyone other than obsessed fans on the internet that says other wise? Everyone behind the scenes seem to understand that because as he stated, its probably for legal reasons. I have no idea why this bothers you so much? And don’t care. But its why Paramount won’t destroy the Kelvin Timeline, nor should they.
Tiger2,
Re: That’s why these boards are fun!
I’ll say. I just remembered when Pegg went off the canon deep end about his Sulu character’s defense and said “time is not linear” and basically that his characters have no connections to previous Trek characters because the universe is totally rewriting all of history, even the pasts of births before Nero arrived.
Are you sure you wanted to try to hitch your canon to THAT? Because if Pegg truly believes time is not linear why didn’t he unfold the tale in the manner of ALL GOOD THINGS?
And doesn’t this thinking turn Nimoy’s Spock into an old illogical dufus that couldn’t detect in is mindmeld with young Kirk that he had no connections to him or Quinto’s Spock?
Tiger2,
Re: Time is not linear
Also, if time is not linear then there’s no causal paradox to resolve from traveling into its past, and there’s no alternate universe creating maths needed to resolve a problem that never arises due to the lack of linear time.
Dude its in a different universe. He and everyone else has made that clear. For god sakes, yeah.
Tiger2,
No, Bob Orci specifically said several times that he updated Trek time travel theory to resolve time travel’s Grandfather Paradox.
When your canon source, Simon Pegg, declared Trek time “nonlinear” he erased all that, because in nonlinear time any action you or I take in the present can be the direct cause of something to occur at any other moment in time be it a past one, a present one or a future one. The same holds for time travel into the past. There’s nothing causally unique about time travel in nonlinear time to cause a universe to spring into existence. It simply doesn’t support it.
Tiger2,
“ We think of it [Bad Robot’s timeline.] is as identical to the original [Prime] until Nero arrives.” — Bob Orci
“Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe.” — Simon Pegg
These two Paramount hired Trek writers are not describing the same new theory of Trek time. Despite your claims to the contrary, they don’t agree.
Sounds basically the same to me. When they both entered a different universe they changed time. Peg went farther with it and said that time changed in both directions but he made it clear that didn’t happen until Spock and Nero went from the prime universe to another. So what’s the problem? And I actually like Peg’s theory a bit more because it would (or could) explain white Khan. Where was he for STID?
Point being man, they both happened in a different universe. Its not the prime universe. Both of your statements made that clear. It never will be. I don’t get why you guys care so much?
Tiger2,
Re: Sounds basically the same to me.
Well they are not. Orci has been quite clear. To create another universe he relied on equations from quantum mechanics that resolved the grandfather paradox.
The time Pegg is describing is creating past moments NOT from what happened in the moment that immediately preceded it as instantaneously duplicated from the Prime past which had already transpired but moments springing casually backwards in time from Nero’s incursion CAUSing differences. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a grandfather paradox in such a model of time where past moments are not coming into existence because of the preceding moment but because of Nero’s act in those past moments’ future. No grandfather paradox means no grandfather paradox solving equations to create a universe.
Which means Ambassador Spock, or anyone else in this supposedly new universe can go back in its timeline and fix the Nero incursion.
And come to think of it, Orci said they wouldn’t be able to do such a thing as long as he was in charge.
And he isn’t in charge. Is he?
They are in another universe, period. Pegg took it a bit farther but end of the day they are simply saying a universe was altered when Nero went through the black hole. We can nerd it up to death here in terms of how it functions but its not the prime universe so who cares?
Point being no one is suggesting it takes place in the prime universe and I have asked you to tell me anyone who actually works on it that does and you haven’t named one. So that really proves my point. And if so why are you so obsessed with ‘fixing’ it? It just another universe out of literally millions, however you want to explain the changes. Just let it play out however it wants.
I just don’t get why so many want to change something that has zero effect on the universe they care about anyway. And which btw, doesn’t rectify the destruction of Romulus. If people were at least talking about that thats a bit different but everyone is just talking about changing the Kelvin back but Romulus stays destroyed either way. Funny how few people seem concerned about that for some reason. If you can accept a destroyed Romulus in the prime timeline, not sure why you can’t just accept a changed timeline in the Kelvin?
Tiger2,
Re: They are in another universe, period.
Not on screen it isn’t. And that’s what canon requires. There never was a Department of STAR TREK Canon at Desilu, Paramount, or CBS. The Supreme Court was an off screen invention of Orci’s to claim power he never had.
But, as I’ve pointed out already, his offscreen premise has always required a model of time where the possibility of the Grandfather Paradox has to exist for the new universe creation to commence. Orci even said he updated STAR TREK’s time model to get his new universe created.
Pegg comes along after BEYOND was made, and offscreen on his blog describes a model of STAR TREK time where it is IMPOSSIBLE for killing your own grandfather to be a paradox because even if through some cosmic toss of the probability dice your grandfather’s birth was causally linked to your own, your killing your infant grandfather would not be the only thing rewriting the time of all the moments to follow. Pegg directly said that a future moment ahead of it, one that hasn’t happened yet at the moment of the infant’s death, far from the next moment after it too is rewriting those next moments as well at the same time. And the existence of that other factor affecting the past as well is what allows you to continue to exist even after you’ve killed your grandfather before your parent could be born. The existence of a mechanism that allows you to continue to exist after you’ve killed your infant grandfather means there is nothing paradoxical about it. No paradox: no universe creation.
Another way to look at it is that it takes energy to bring order to the natural state of chaos in our universe. A tremendous amount to create a new orderly universe. Our universe is not going to engage in universe creation when a less complicated mechanism requiring far less energy exists to resolve it.
Re: So that really proves my point.
No it doesn’t. It has never been a part of the canon discussion, from the moment the Trek fans 1st invented it, that the guy spraying lemon pledge on the bridge consoles to keep them dust free had more canon sway than the fans who invented it because he gets a Desilu, Paramount, or CBS paycheck.
“Bjo expanded greatly on my original [concordance] work, using other methods, but both of us worked with the episodes as shown; in case of contradiction with any other material now in print, the episode as aired has been taken as definitive.” — Dorothy Jones Heydt, STAR TREK CONCORDANCE, 1976 BY Paramount Pictures Corporation
Tiger2,
Re: Prime Universe
The term “Prime Universe” never occurs on screen in any STAR TREK production’s product. It’s nonsense term and concept as far as Trek canon is concerned.
Tiger2,
Re:…tell me anyone who actually works on it that does…
”PAULA BLOCK [CBS Senior Director of Product Development]: “Canon” in the sense that I use it is a very important tool. It only gets muddled when people try to incorporate licensed products into “canon”—and I know a lot of the fans really like to do that. Sorry, guys—not trying to rain on your parade. There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens. Licensed products like books and comics aren’t part of that continuity, so they aren’t canon. And that’s that. Part of my job in licensing is to keep track of TV and Movie continuity, so I can help direct licensees in their creation of licensed products. It gets a little tricky because it’s constantly evolving, and over the years, Star Trek’s various producers and scriptwriters haven’t always kept track of/remembered/cared about what’s come before. ” — ‘D.C. Fontana On TAS Canon (and Sybok)’ by Anthony Pascale | TrekMovie.com | July 22, 200
The movies will never go back to the prime timeline as long as both companies are apart.
“Nope. I was allowed to pitch whatever [in Prime or out] I saw fit. That’s what I did.” — Bob Orci | ‘Simon Pegg Sees Hiring Director S.J. Clarkson As Good For Star Trek Franchise’ TrekMovie.com comment chain | May 1, 2018 3:21 pm
IF IT’S NOT ON SCREEN, IT’S NOT CANON.
It makes absolute sense for Tarantino to get Mr Sir Stewart into his movie. He needs at least another Trek film to cement his legacy in this franchise. And he is in great, dare I say Brilliant, health for his age, it seems; it is an absolute no brainer to me.
All this makes me sick. I want to throw up.
Yeah, that sounds real normal.
@ Fabio – All of it? So you’re not keen on getting another ‘Kelvin Timeline’ movie, nor a Tarantino story either?
Too bad, I’ll get the bucket. ;)
Just go for walk and daydream about what your Star Trek movie could be… let us all know your ideas… ..
A separate Trek movie series for R-Rated movies would make sense. The PG-13 main series could go on forever, with an own R-Rated series as its companion… After QT, many more prolific R-Rated specialists like Guillermo DelToro could continue the new series… Just dreaming.
What I’d really relish is QT going way off course, not even title it Star Trek atall, but instead: ‘Pike’ and it can be gruesome and action packed the way QT likes, but also, in the end when Spock wheels off Pike, Ironic too that the Only surviving Vulcan, factually portrayed the most emotional part.
There may be more to this idea than you know. Paramount has said the TOP GUN sequel is titled MAVERICK.
Honor Gene Roddenberry’s memory and keep all movies family friendly. I would not allow my kids to see, nor would I ever see, an R-Rate film or worse.
Hmm, my kids have already seen Spaceballs, Airplane, Police Academy, and others.
Was Police Academy an R-rated movie? (have never seen any in that series.) Spaceballs was terrible — but it wasn’t an R-, and AIRPLANE, despite some 20 or so frames of nudity was just PG.
Police Academy is an R, looking at it right now, the sequel went “family friendly” and cut back the language. Spaceballs dropped the F-bomb more than Discovery did. While Airplane may have been PG please remember that when it came out there was no PG-13 (Airplane released in 1980, PG-13 came in 1984) or anything like that, it went from PG to R. Still maybe I should have said Blazing Saddles.
Your opinion on the subjective quality of these films is neither relevant nor asked.
Who Cares,
Perhaps in the future, when you make a post in which you specifically do not wish to hear my opinion of “the subjective quality” of the films being discussed, you should include that request in the body of your comment. That way I can feel even happier about weighing in. And yeah, SPACEBALLS is a cesspool of a movie, almost completely devoid of wit (YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN, which actually is funny throughout, plays like vintage Chaplin by comparison.)
I would love to know where you found any evidence AIRPLANE! was ever re-rated from PG to R. I think it costs money to submit to MPAA, and I can’t imagine Paramount spending anything it didn’t have to.
I did not say anything about Airplane being changed from PG to R. What I actually said was that back when Airplane was released movie rating went from PG to R, there was no PG-13. So Airplane’s PG is not the rating it would have gotten had it been released after PG-13 was implemented in 1984.
Since you insist on dragging your unrequested opinions into this. I am a life long fan of Mel Brooks and his work, High Anxiety, To Be or Not To Be, Silent Movie, etc. I love Young Frankenstein as well, just rewatched it a few days ago. None of which changes the fact that I don’t care if you like Spaceballs or not. In terms of plain fact my kids got more exposure to language and “rude humor” from that than the entire season of Discovery so why should I have a problem watching the show with my family?
Now on the other hand I despise nearly everything everything made by Tim Burton, his most lauded “works” are utter garbage to me. I hate Tom Cruise as an actor, rather suspect I’d not like him as a person if I knew him as well. There are probably many things you like that I don’t, and just as I expect my opinion to have no impact on your likes, you should not expect me to care one whit about yours.
If the fourth Kelvin Universe film is also a time travel story, then I highly doubt Paramount would want two back to back time travel stories in the Trek universe. I mean time travel is good and all, but in small doses.
Unless George is from another dimension rather than time travel.
Mirror dimension George vs Kirk, evil father vs good son. It’s not like that story has every been used before in a scientist fiction film before 😛
I have a feeling everything Quentin Tarantino will do for his next films, be it Trek or others, will be analyzed and scrutinized within an inch of its life because of all the accusations against him. I can just imagine the outburst some people will have if he decides to include those classical mini skirt outfits from TOS in his Trek. He will be labeled many things. My personal opinion is to just leave the guy to make the film he wants to make regardless of how it shows certain groups in certain light.
alphantrion,
Please cite the accusers and list their accusations.
It starts with Uma Thurman, also I heard about his foot fetish, and I am sure more will come out of the woodwork some time soon. Nevertheless, I think his work will be looked at in a different way. I am just saying lets just see how or if he makes the film and judge it after.
All Uma said was that she got injured doing stunt driving that Quentin insisted she do herself, loudly. Her injury causes her problems even today. Quentin responded that he had been wrong to insist on her driving and said it was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made in filming, and that was that. Both Uma and Quentin expressed their respect and affection for each other and thats all done.
Hopefully it is all done. The guy is a real big movie lover and I hope he doesn’t have any more bigger skeletons in his closet.
I’m thinking Tarantino’s version will be in the mirror universe…
Let us hope that Tarantino just makes a brand new version of Star Trek with no reliance on old characters or concepts.
A clean break and a new beginning with no alleged ties to anything that came before.
Something truly new and creative.
Here, here! What so many of us want and that no films have ever really done although the Kelvin at least created a new timeline if with old characters.
You could argue that if there are no ties to anything that came before (neither characters nor concepts) then is it still Star Trek or is it just a random movie set in the future?
Some people have accused the Kelvin movies or Discovery of being “Star Trek in name only”. I wouldn’t agree because I think they do have enough of the ingredients in them to make them Star Trek but if you took out all characters AND CONCEPTS then what’s left of Star Trek? And then I could understand if people complained why it’s called Star Trek.
Well, Bob Orci has said several times that the Paramount suits asked him, “Do we have to call it STAR TREK?”
Or taratntino’ film will be set in a new timeline because Abrams Trek 4 will be about fixing the timeline hence the return of George Kirk.
For those who hate the abbrams films, what’s better news. That it might be coming to an end or the fact that we getting a film in a new timeline away from abrams’ timeline?
Except there’s no “fixing the timeline” because it’s an alternate reality, which is not “broken”.
Then what was the purpose of the time travel?
They used time travel to change reality instead of time? 🤪
So by changing the past you don’t change time you change…..reality???
There was no purpose to the time travel, it was an accident. Basically, both Nero’s and Spock’s ships were pulled into the past, they didn’t want to go there. By changing events in their past a new parallel timeline was created which continued to develop differently from what is referred to as the Prime timeline. The idea is that both timelines run in parallel. The Prime timeline continues to exist as it always has, and the Kelvin timeline is essentially a what-if alternate scenario where things develop a little differently.
@Diginon — except that’s an off-screen explanation, with nothing on-screen confirming that’s actually what happened. In the absence of a contrary explanation, Trek’s long-standing, canonical, traditional rules of time travel apply, and the Prime timeline is being overwritten by the Kelvin timeline.
J.S.
By that, you mean that once they go back in time and resurrect George Kirk, they create yet another universe from which they can never return to the KT. So it will be the end of STAR TREK stories in the KT if no mechanism exists for fixing timelines, but if the KT can be fixed, that itself is a catch 22, because then it can be fixed back to Prime so then the KT really isn’t separate.
@Disnivited — and that’s assuming that one accepts the KU explanation as canon, which it’s not. That said, even if we accept the new definition of time travel which Orci introduced off-screen to keep fans from all out revolt over ST09, that wouldn’t necessarily be the end of the KU — just like DISC revisits past eras in the Prime Universe, new movies could go back and revisit new stories in the KU.
@J.S. — but that’s not canon.
All i believe from this is that there are two films in development that’s come direct from Paramount, all the rest is just unsubstantiated rumour’s from Variety and Hollywood Reporter, But at least there is movement now!
@Shane — yup. Now it’s not just Bad Robot stirring up publicity, but Paramount acknowledging it as well. It looks good for investors if they think Paramount is hard at work on a major franchise — and it costs them nothing to generate this kind of publicity. Bad Robot bears most, if not all the cost of development here for now.
While I don’t really dig the idea of “Marvelising” the Trekverse (or is it really more of a DC-thing? “Flashpointing” would be the right term then, I suppose…) I trust Tarantino to be able to keep things cohesive and coherent enough to deliver an intriguing story (i.e. not fall into the Terminator: Genisys trap).
The minute Trek becomes Marvel is the minute I stop watching. Connected universe, yes. Humor, yes. Crowd-pleasing middle-of-the-road generic Disney-type scenes and characters, please no.
With all the #MeToo stuff, Tarantino should cast a strong female lead for his movie…. #coughJanewaycough*
But yeah, please make it TNG/post VGR era!
I would hope he’ll get a TNG reboot. An updated non-1980s-sensibilities TNG is fun to contemplate. The fact QT is a fan of “Yesterday’s Enterprise” and “City on the Edge of Forever” is a good sign, as well- looks like he may try time travel.
The movies always emphasized action over plot which makes them never feel like any series episode. Tarantino could be that fix.
A new trilogy from a fresh perspective would be great
I know Discovery just did an arc on the Mirror universe,but I think that would be a great world for Tararntino to do his thing,could only imagine!
I mean, remember that time they said Nick Meyer was working on his own side project in co-development with Discovery? Yeah, that uhh…anyway I’ll believe it when I see it, in 2024.
Also I’m sorry but I think they managed to make the Kelvinprise look worse with the Ent-A refit! No thanks I liked the first one better.
Now, I am having a feeling that that Nick Meyer project rumor came out as a way to shut up some of the more critical fans of Discovery. I don’t know if it ever existed.
There are trek precedents for that notion of deliberately suggesting a non-existent project; back when David Gerrold was forced off TNG, it was said he departed in order to launch his own series, which was supposed to be TRAVELLERS or something along those lines, and I think it was a variation on his STAR WOLF variation of YESTERDAY’S CHILDREN, a silk road in space thing. Maybe this departure descrip was in STARLOG in his last TNG column?
So, the Tarantino movie could be another timeline branching off of the Prime- or even the Kelvin-timeline? Or even a 100 % reboot that has no apparent continuity connection with the so far established Trek-multiverse?
I just hope that so many different timelines won’t get too confusing…
I guess, for the general audience it’s just another Star Trek that happens to look slightly different. They don’t care about canon and how different shows fit together. The different timelines branching off of each other and all that stuff is just for the fans who want to think of Star Trek as one big story that all fits together instead of a string of stories that share common elements.
My interest is piqued.
I’m done with the Pine et al movies (no disrespect to the actors), but a totally new set of movies helmed by Tarantino has definitely got my attention. The PROS AND KHANS…
KHAN: (1) Paramount would still be involved, and they’ve been just awful with regard to the Star Trek franchise from 1993 up to the present. It’s hard to imagine how a studio could have done worse to Trek than Paramount has done. (2) Would JJ Abrams and Bad Robot be involved creatively? If so, that’s a big strike against the project.
PRO: (1) QT typically seems to have a great deal of creative control over his movies. So, even if JJ Abrams has to be involved contractually, it’s possible that QT could keep JJ from infecting the movie with his signature badness. (2) New timeline! New possibilities! Total wipe of the JJ-Trek movies, and I never have to see, hear or know anything about them ever again! I could just follow the QT line of Trek movies and forget that the JJ Trek movies ever existed! That’s the best news I’ve heard all day! (Granted it’s only 2pm on a Saturday, and I slept late).
Now that we seem to be off doing whatever TPTB want to do without care for continuity, I find myself back at the idea I had nearly 20 years back, which is to rework BALANCE OF TERROR as the Enterprise’s first mission with its regular TOS crew. That way, nobody really does know about Spock’s background, so seeing the pointy-ears on the viewscreen does generate some real suspicion.
BoT has always seemed like one of the likeliest eps to expand to feature length to me … you could have the Enterprise forced to break off pursuit at one point in order to aid rescue efforts on one of the asteroid-bases that is collapsing in on itself, which also lets you get off the ship and into a different environment. And you have a trek-like dilemma there, about whether they should try to aid those likely already dead or keep after the invisible Roms, one that wouldn’t seem like padding, but would push it further from comparisons with THE ENEMY BELOW.
And if need be, you could even set part of act 1 on Earth, before the ship actually leaves on the mission, to show the characters’ lives (though personally I’m not big on seeing Earth in Trek, it takes too much resources away from the meat of the story and spends it on infrastructure that can be inferred rather than shown, even in a feature.)
And if you really wanted to enflame, you could have Chekov taking on the Stiles role, as a young hothead with a generations-long grudge against Romulans owing to the death of his great-great-uncle Piotr, or something to that effect. A Chekov who goes through a Bailey (CORBOMITE) like transformation over the course of things.
I really wish I could find my old trekbbs post on this; I remember laying out something that was pretty complete for BoT-TMP.
I don’t care who does the new trek projects as long as Abrams keeps his hands out of it. He should be not even involved now or ever. Since he screwed up with what he did. They could use kelvin crew in all the new movies I’m for that! Then it be finish kelvin off that be great. Then bring the same actors to Trek Prime.
That’s a good idea, since they shouldn’t look all that much different. Many other things would change, but we could be back in the prime time line, and the movies could go on from there. Except I think they’re going to get rid of Pine, Saldana, and Urban contractually. (Too expensive and not willing to do episodic television*)Then put the rest of the cast to rest for a few years then reboot TOS by recasting Shatner, Nimoy, etc. for television, or streaming.
Why do people freak out over Alternate Time lines? All Trek series dealt with them. You have Mirror Mirror,in TOS,Yesterday Enterprise,Parallels and all Good Things in TNG, several Mirror episodes in DS9 and my favorite Enterprise two parter In Mirror Darkly and maybe others. Non of these universes erase other universes, Now Transwarp beaming,Planet drilling for red matter and super blood, now they are bad plot devices.
Exactly! I don’t really understand it all either, especially since there are alternative timelines all over Trek. Yes, some get fixed, but others don’t.
Even the Mirror Universe its timeline was changed when Kirk and crew stepped though the transporter and changed an already alternate timeline of that universe which we saw in DS9. Is anyone complaining they should go back in time and stop Kirk to ‘fix’ the timeline?
It’s just different, let it play out differently. Thats actually the one few things that makes the KT films cool. Why would you destroy that?
@Walter Kozlowski — not sure I follow you. The Mirror Universe is just that, a different universe, not necessarily a different timeline. Yesterday’s Enterprise was not allowed to continue — it was both formed and erased with the appearance and disappearance of the Ent C. Parallels, again does nothing to change the timeline in TNG (nor is time travel even discussed in that episode), and all of those different universes have timelines which apply to their own universe, not necessarily the Prime universe. All Good Things was again, not likely real, and set right in the end as well. I don’t know which of your DS9 episodes you’re referring to, but I can think of at least one where the timeline ceased to exist when they left it.
That said, the Kelvin Universe is an off-screen definition, a marketing tool more than anything. There is nothing in canon that confirms the KU is indeed an alternate universe, but rather from extrapolated canon, an alternate timeline which in classic Trek rules, is overwriting the original timeline. That’s why fans want it fixed. Either confirm it’s a parallel universe, or restore the Prime timeline.
First off,I’ve been a Fan since the early 70’s,I don’t see anything needing fixing!
The term Prime Universe implies there are more then one.I saw no evidence that the prime universe was erased.Prime Spock caused events in his universe that in effect triggered the so-called Kelvin Timeline, Alternate Reality or Universe whatever you want to call it. Canon for Prime time line was not violated.
I always thought Abramsverse was parallel,that should follow its on canon.I thought It was a clever way(using quantum theory)to bring Kirk and company back to the big screen.
We have Discovery and Two movies coming! I’d love to see a prime universe Movie, say 20 years after TNG. That would be awesome. Here’s hoping!
Exactly Walter! Prime universe goes on, this has been cited for literally a decade now. And Discovery has now verified nothing got erased. Its so bizarre to listen to this inane theory and YET seem to completely ignore the brand new Star Trek show that invalidates it. I’ve asked CC several times now to explain how can that be and I been completely ignored lol. He clearly has no answer, that’s why.
But yes its just another universe parallel to prime. I don’t get why people have such an issue with it? They don’t seem to have a problem with time travel so I’m not sure why the multiverse is so bad? Especially since it was TOS that established they existed in the first place. It all goes hand and hand of what Star Trek is and why its so fun to play in.
I had a friend that told me “Prime Trek” was the only real Trek because it is About Our Universe! I asked him “Then what happened to the “Eugenics War” He paused and replied Well, Trek is science fiction. I said,”Exactly!”
Just have fun!
Cheers!
@Walter — agreed, this is supposed to be fun. But you also have to understand for some, fun is parsing all these seemingly trivial, and often petty details. I personally have no problem with alternate timelines or universes — they enrich the franchise and offer even more unlimited story potential. Heck, the Marvel universe is fractured with multiple universes and timelines — but the difference is they are explicitly part of the canon. In Trek, they are not — and Orci didn’t do us any favors by intentionally clouding the issue. There’s no judgement, simply a rationale as to why some fans want to see the Bad Robot timeline corrected. And indeed, it may already have been, we just haven’t seen the episode where it’s presented. Or, at some point in the Bad Robot series of films, they will explicitly show us that those films are taking place in an alternate universe, not just an alternate timeline. But make no mistake — I’m having fun either way!
Curious Cadet,
Are you really just going to keep ignoring me? I’ll ask it AGAIN, doesn’t Discovery’s existence all but proves the Kelvin films are in an alternate universe? So what’s the problem? What needs to be ‘fixed’ it TERMS of the prime timeline? Can you please answer this or not?
Because, as stated, its already been proven the Kelvin films are in a different timeline from Discovery’s. MAYBE people could’ve argued (somehow) that what we see in Discovery doesn’t invalidate the altered timeline theory Kelvin has created (especially the whole everything looks super advanced part) but now that’s thrown out of the window with the appearance of the Enterprise which clearly is much older than the Kelvin version since IIRC was brand new around this time if it was flying at all.
But yes glad you are having fun. I just don’t see the need to explain the Kelvin at this point. Its in its own universe with their own separate adventures from TOS, thats all that matters and really the true reason why it was even done.
Why does it have to be fixed?
Tiger2,
Here’s a hint:
https://fanlore.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Concordance
@Walter — the term “Prime Universe” is NOT canon. Again — the way time travel has always worked in Star Trek is that a change in the past effects a change in the future. By tradition, without further on-camera clarification for canon, Nimoy/Spock created a new timeline which is overwriting the original TOS timeline. Period.
I agree wholeheartedly that it was clever to introduce the idea of alternate parallel universes by Bad Robot to solve the canon “problem” in Trek, however much they squandered the opportunity. I was, and still am, in favor of the idea. But facts are facts. Unfortunately, it was never made canon on-screen, no matter how much you want to embrace that interpretation — and Bob Orci himself confirmed that he intentionally left it ambiguous so as to allow fans to interpret however they wanted — and that’s a big problem in these discussions. Since TOS has ample precedent about how time travel is treated for over 50 years, then in the absence of a canon explanation, one cannot simply say it’s an alternate universe.
The fact that DISCOVERY, or any other Trek movie taking place in the Prime Timeline, is not affected by the events in ST09, merely because it is being produced after that series of movies, is irrelevant to the discussion, since a producer can chose to set any installment of the franchise in any era, any timeline, or any event in any universe they chose. DISCOVERY takes place in the “Prime” timeline, prior to Spock and Nero’s incursion in the timeline. And if that’s not enough, there’s plenty of episodes in Trek where a paradox exists in which the story is told in the “Prime” timeline before the event in which the timeline was altered; as well as a story told in the previous timeline before it was altered to the “Prime”.
Curious Cadet,
I certainly agree it was a clever IDEA, but it certainly wasn’t clever, as in a total misunderstanding of what is important to STAR TREK’s historical narrative, i.e. canon, to keep the notion off screen and try to lobby for its adoption after the fact by creating the fiction that there’s a Supreme Court of Canon in the Paramount corporate structure. That nonsense is what’s led to specious crap being put forth that amounts to claiming the janitor-spraying-lemon-pledge-on-the-set-pieces-to-keep-them-dust-free’s views on canon supersede yours and mine just because he gets a Paramount paycheck.
The rumors about it being in the prime timeline, are nuts. I thought only cbs could make that material.
Do you think guys are we going to get Star Trek The Return the book that william shatner made i hope so
Maybe Paramount wants to make standalone films set in the general Star Trek universe, as Disney/Star Wars did with “Rogue One” and is doing with the forthcoming “Solo.”
Somebody below mentioned the NG episode “Parallels.” What I don’t get about that episode is when Worf was in parallel universe #162 (as an example), where was the Worf who was indigenous to that universe? And so on for all the other parallel universes he visited?
This may sound too cerebral for even Star Trek but I always believed it was Worf consciousness travelling between those universes, ie, he was inhabiting the minds of the other Worfs there, basically what was happening to Picard in AGT. He physically wasn’t transported anywhere, his mind was simply jumping to the various time periods. I think that’s what was really happening to Worf as well but I’m sure someone will tell me how I’m wrong lol.
So Star Trek Enterprise was just a really long Quantum Leap episode?
I actually always had a fan fic story in my head where Archer mind would inhabit one of his ancestors fighting in the Eugenics wars lol. The ultimate Quantum Leap easter egg.
Tiger2,
That’s not how it worked:
”DATA: All matter in the universe resonates on a quantum level with a unique signature. That signature is constant. It cannot be changed through any known process. It is the basic foundation of existence.
RIKER: Are you saying that Worf’s quantum signature is different from ours?
DATA: Yes, sir. I cannot explain it. It is as if he originates from a different quantum universe. ” — PARALLELS
As I said its always just been a personal theory of mine, but you’re right! See, I can admit when I’m wrong, especially since I said I expected someone to tell me I was wrong. ;)
@navamske — I always wondered the same thing. Since it is canon that Worf was actually physically moving through the different universes. Troi said something about not getting her Worf back, which makes no sense to me, as they don’t explain it. It leads one to believe that somehow Worf was popping into a new universe, and knocking the original Worf out — permanently — such that when he moved to the next universe, he left the previous universe without a Worf. Otherwise, why wouldn’t Troi get her Worf back? If Mirror Mirror rules were in play, then Worf would have just swapped places with his alternate, and all the ships could measure the quantum signature of their Worfs, and return them all to the correct Enterprise. Adding to the confusion, Worf’s correct Ent. has another Worf. So where did he come from? It seems to me they didn’t think this episode through, before they started shooting it.
Curious Cadet,
I believe, alternate Troi came to that conclusion because they were going to return Worf to his Prime universe, for lack of a better word, “manually”, and this would halt his “natural” universe hopping which might have returned her Worf to her universe if Prime Worf had left it by the same mechanism that brought him to her universe in the first place. Her only hope for her husband’s eventual return after Prime Worf was deposited home by her ship was if, whatever universe he found himself stranded in, that universe’s Data or someone with equal reasoning capabilities figured out the quantum signature thing and had the technological know-how to find her universe among the infinite possibilities and return him to it.
Yup, Yup
Consider also that all of the Worf’s likely responded like the Prime one, noticing the changes and trying to find out what is happening. On top of that it isn’t like a time loop where everyone forgot when he popped out to the next quantum reality, the work to find a solution would continue with the incoming displaced Worf.
navamske,
Disinvited,
Curious Cadet,
Some say that the indigenous Worf shifted to a brand new universe, others say that he was bumped into a neutral purgatory-like dimension temporarily.
Please QT make it TNG era or show us our beloved Federation post-Nemesis. Give the fans what they want, and show these upstart pretentious Nu-trek producers that you can still be sexy, exciting and thrilling without prequels, reboots or re-inventing the wheel!
Riker: The Movie
Directed by Quentin Tarantino
How about Riker’s Island, an alt-TNG series set after the E-D makes a very unfortunate and permanent planetfall, with the misadventures of happy-go-lucky loser goofball Riker causing his ‘skipper’ Picard to tear what’s left of his hair out in frustration.
Has at least as many possibilities as my dream reworking, which is PETTICOAT JUNCTION directed by David Lynch. The Uncle Joe in THAT version would be into all kinds of things in terrible ways.
Obviously, RIKER’S ISLAND would seem like a prison to the other crewmates.
I like it. Then …Picard: The Movie…
That might be called WHERE BALD EAGLES DARE. But you can’t do TROI: THE MOVIE next, cuz Brad Pitt already made that one.
I hope its set in the prime timeline. We don’t need a third timeline for new movies to be set in.
I sincerely wish there was a means to submit and/or pitch a Star Trek story idea to the powers that be. I guess the only way is to follow in the footsteps of those who’ve made it happen, or are making happen. I respect and am inspired by these people- I only wish there were a means for those of us who come from a different background to forward their ideas of strange new worlds and fascinating civilizations, and get the chance to see those ideas translate- or evolve.
I have so many ideas I’d like to share, but as they say: if you share, you violate “TBTB’s” prime directive: ‘Keep It Secret’. With that all said, I’m stoked to hear that two movies have been given the ‘green light’. That could only mean they have -at least- two solid story lines they’re enthused about and are confident can be financed to the finish. That’s a big thumbs up, and a further indicator that the the provisional merger of Paramount and CBS is likely a done deal. Another possible thumbs up.
Unfortunately, the entertainment industry is like Axel Island – warped from litigious inbreeding and signatory bureaucracy – to the point that even thoughtful citizens of that island, who care about the fans, (like Bob Orci and Steven Spielberg), are besieged by the same walls labeled as protection.
Since 2011, I have attempted to reach out “to the powers that be” of a franchise that developed in the 1970’s and launched with its 1st film in 1981. The following films were good but “the powers that be” lamented publicly that they wished their research would yield a plot device as ‘real’ as the 1st film.
As a research writer, I have what they’re looking for. I even convinced a signatory agent to help me, but “the powers that be” have policy-declarations and only consider submissions made from certain agents or others in the entertainment industry “with whom [they] already have an established business relationship.”
Sometimes a studio will hold open casting calls. I wish certain franchises, (like Star Trek), would do an open “pitching” call. It’s not totally impossible, but I can testify that to breach industry walls – particularly the barriers of an established franchise – is highly improbable. Best wishes to all the brave souls who at least give it a go.
On a planet in unclaimed space, a pre-warp civilisation has no idea of the value the crystals that littler the planet’s surface have to the wider galactic community.
On an imperial expansion mission, a Klingon ship detects a planet rich in dilitihium ripe for conquest. The primitive inhabitants will become subjects of the empire.
On the starship Enterprise, Captain Kirk prepares to investigate a pre-warp planet where dilithium crystals are uniquely abundant. But, when a Klingon ship enters orbit and lays claim to the planet, Kirk faces a choice: risk violating the prime directive and warning the people on the planet about the Klingons, or open fire on a Klingon ship and starting a war.
On starbase 9, the admirals discuss the value of such a planet and contemplate the cultural effects of making first contact with a pre-warp civilisation.
How far will the Klingons go to acquire the planet?
How far will starfleet go to bend the rules?
How far will Kirk go to stop both of them?
Star Trek XIV: The Ethical Dilemma.
In theatres 12th of Never.
Ok I can dream – I doubt Mr Tarantino (or anyone else for that matter) would consider such a story – but it would make me happy.
John Ford did a comedic, Gilbert&Sullivan-derived take that sounds similar to your premise — minus the PD angle — in a 1980s Pocket TREK novel called HOW MUCH FOR JUST THE PLANET? (it ends with a pie fight, if you can believe that, and includes a fat Vulcan as a character.)
Haha that sounds amazing! I’d not heard of that! Maybe they could update it with the ferengi negotiating for the planet and throwing pies?
In the Ford novel, the inhabitants basically capture all the shenanigans on tape, which has the potential to be very embarrassing to both thr Enterprise and to Klingons. There’s also an early chapter that purports to be a transcript of a kid’s Federation science tape that is an utter scream called DILITHIUM AND YOU. (if you haven’t read it, Ford’s earlier TREK novel THE FINAL REFLECTION is possibly the best — certainly in the top three for me — piece of TREK fiction ever written.)
Actually now that I think of it, I pitched a dilithium comedy to TNG in 1990. DILITHIUM FEVER was only a 2-page premise, not one of my extensived treatments, but it had pretty much everything you could not afford to do on TNG, from klingon white-water rafting to a swarm of untrustworthy alien locals/federales asking Riker for his ID and it becoming a riff on TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE.
That book sounds really interesting I’ll have to see if I can pick up a copy somewhere!
And wow you pitched to TNG? That’s awesome! Shame they didn’t pick that story up.
I pitched about ten stories after they liked one of my spec scripts, but I got shunted off to Jeri Taylor instead of Piller, who was dealing with a GR meltdown that afternoon. I did get to meet Ron Moore, so that was something anyway. Most of those TNG pitches would make decent ORVILLE eps …
They better hurry up with the Quentin Tarantino film (should he be writing a TNG film), Patrick Stewart is 77 years old!
Realistically, they should have been doing this years ago. With all the different eras shown Star Trek has had (and failed to utilise to best effect) a substantial multi-generational universe.
When they first talked about Generations, it seemed obvious to me that they could do a Godfather Part II-style film which could feature TOS, TNG and DS9 telling a story jumping between two different eras dealing with how events in the Kirk era could impact the 24th century. Trouble is, I don’t think Berman and co had the imagination for the franchise to do that. A decent story (and budget) could have featured Spock, McCoy and Scotty in both eras as well as the fates of the rest of the TOS crew after STVI.
The genius of The Menagerie using footage from The Cage was that it immediately deepened the Star Trek universe and gave it a sense of history and progression. A TOS/TNG film could have done the same. Even now, the opportunity exists. We still have several TOS actors around, so could use a combination of both to set up a ‘Next, Next Generation.’
It’s easy really. Kirk lives in the Nexus and avatars of him can leave it, so we could have a Shatner/Kirk avatar interacting with Uhura, Chekov and Sulu in their later years and with the ageing Picard and his former crew.
At the end of the day, there’s always a ship called Enterprise and this is the story of those who sail in her.
At the time of GEN, the novel FEDERATION had come out and basically covered exactly what you’re discussing, and it worked very very well indeed. I always thought they could do a timewarped version of TAS JIHAD with ‘best of the best’ from various times deployed together against a galactic threat, also.
“Quentin Tarantino’s Star Trek Project Could Set Up Separate Movie Series”
Well, let’s go.
Surely he can use the millions to produce a good looking and faithful TNG-era ships and locales etc
Give us nerds, geeks and fanboys what we want pls and we will rewatch it a lot and it’ll get good internet buzz and therefore, nice $$$ for the bank account.
Make a Picard movie , like the episode but Quentin’s touch. Stewart is one of the best actors ever so why not give him his own film. Make it so !
The Tarantino Trek I picture is a crazy, planet-hopping frontier adventure along the lines of “Operation Annihilate,” “Man Trap,” or “Doomsday Machine.” It could have a plot as cerebral as he likes, but interspersed with retro Trek-flavored pulp action. Deadly encounters with weird aliens, madness on the edge of space, trying to stay one step ahead of the Klingons. Riffing on some of his favorite Trek lore, themes, and aesthetics, the way Kill Bill mashed up elements of his favorite old martial arts serials, spaghetti westerns, and grindhouse. If he used an old favorite actor like Stewart, it would be similar to how he used David Carradine. Blaring Courage and/or Goldsmith-inspired score, rehashing various pre-existing musical motifs from the last 50 years.
Basically playing with a big assortment of Trek’s various retro elements in a way that makes them fresh again, in service to some social commentary. That’s the kind of thing that’s at the heart of his movies, not the violence and profanity.
Tarantino is almost synonymous with crazy.
@ At Eric – one can only hope! I’d like to think he’d include his version of the ‘The Guardian’ portal somewhere in there, but I’d certainly take what you’ve described. :)
Scores of comments…all basically wanting to revisit something established in canon. And a little Bad Robot bitchiness. Regardless of how one feels about QT, there’s little in his body of work that suggests he’s going to do much of anything with former cast members. If his project is to push Trek in another direction, it’s best to expect that there will be little reference to established canon, other then that its set in the Trek universe.