‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Designers Tease New And Reimagined Aliens For Season 2

Today CBS kicked off a new Facebook Live series featuring the people behind the camera for Star Trek: Discovery, with creature designer Neville Page and makeup designer Glenn Hetrick. During the half-hour video event, the pair talked about their work, answered some fan questions and showed off some interesting behind-the-scenes footage from the show. We have gathered some of the big highlights and reveals from the event, including the first look at the original Saru.

Neville Page and Makeup designer Glenn Hetrick participated in a Facebook Live event for Star Trek: Discovery on May 29

The original multi-eyed Saru was crazy

They showed a behind-the-scenes clip of the original multi-eyed version of Saru. While it had been previously discussed, this original design had never been seen, except for in a doodle by writer Bo Yeon Kim.

Original Saru makeup being applied

Multi-eyed Saru test

More Klingon looks coming in season 2

When discussing how they approached the Klingons, Hetrick promised that there will be more exploration of the various Houses in season two:

When you look at beloved Klingons from TOS and Next Gen and the movie series, and the way the look evolves, the one thing that always bothered me is their wardrobe is almost always the same. The look is almost always unified. So, that is one of our biggest goals. If you think about the cultural patina that is the human species that is on this planet for a relatively short amount of time and how different our cultures look … the Klingon Empire, having of course not all grown up on Qo’noS but all these different planets, the Houses would look incredibly different. And we are really just starting, wait until you see season two. We are really just starting down that road and there is so much more we have developed that hasn’t been unpacked yet.

Some of the different looks for Klingons Houses were seen in season one, more to come in season two

“Truly alien” character teased for season 2

When talking about their design process, the pair also talked about the practicalities of long shoots with characters under a lot of prosthetics. In so doing, Hetrick teased how they had to get creative for a new alien design for the second season:

If we know it is in a ton of pages in a specific script, we know the performer is going to be wearing it for 15 hours for several days in a row. You have got to figure out ways to reduce its weight, make it as breathable as possible, make the vision as clear as possible, or if that is not possible – coming up in season 2 you will see something exactly like this – because you don’t want everything to look like a guy in a mask. So, if you are really overly cautious, it looks like a dude in a suit, and the eyes are exactly where they belong. So, when you change the eye position, you have to figure out a way of dealing with that. How do you allow them to still have vision, but not not put the eyes exactly where they are. Maybe, you make them removable…A lot of that goes into how you can make something that is truly alien.

More interesting background characters in season 2

The subject of background characters came up and Hetrick spoke a bit about one of their favorites, the character of Troy Januzzi, who was seen in the first two episodes on board the USS Shenzhou:

There was something we did in season one, we see him in episode 1 and 2 at the helm…We’ve called [it] “LEAL” which is a unit that Neville designed, which is sort of like an augmented hard drive for a human to wear, and it makes their job on a Federation ship easier. This is one of those types of characters. There is no storyline to go with it yet. Ostensibly different people could wear them and they can be different colors and do different things.

They spoke about how the character was somewhat like Lobot from Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, and how having interesting background characters “makes the world richer.” Hetrick went on to promise there are more interesting background character designs for season two:

We were already playing with the idea of where would technology go, the next gen of wearable would almost be like a second brain and it makes sense it would be near your cerebral cortex. So, we try to do little stuff like that. There is more of it in [season] two already, then all of season one. So, the great thing about setting our world up in [season] one, is we have so many main species, that we get to play around more in [season] two and get to do more of the smaller stuff. So, you have to really keep your eyes peeled, when season two premieres.

Designers promise more interesting background characters in season two, like Troy Januzzi (seen in “The Vulcan Hello”)

An “awesome” canon alien makes big return for season 2

In answer to a fan question on what classic Trek alien they want to do, the pair said they already had their chance in season two:

The one that we both agree on, and if you look closely at promotional things you may be able to guess at this, we have already done it for season two. That question was sort of thrown out there at the beginning of the season… So, when the executives asked us if there are any species we would like to do from canon that hadn’t been filmed yet… We came back with this whole list. One of those things made it, and it has a pretty substantial role in season two. And it is awesome.

The pair may have been talking about what looks to be a new version of a Saurian from the season two production start teaser

Is this the awesome alien they spoke of?

These guys really want to do the Borg

When asked how they might approach redesigning the Borg, the two designers lit up and made it clear they have put a lot of thought into it and it is on the top of their list of challenges they want to be given. Neville noted at first that it is important to keep the important things about the Borg, noting:

It has to look like a Borg. That was established. There was a particular aesthetic choice that was made … but for me the coolest challenge is to make sense of those choices. Like reverse engineering why those tubes are going in and out of things. It would be to try to make sense of that and then contemporize that aesthetic with audiences demand today and expect.

Glenn then shared some of his thoughts on how he would approach the Borg and how modern technology could play a role in updating the classic collective:

Go to [H.R.] Geiger and steampunk and find a way to combine it and maybe play with the colors and bring the palette out of the greys and the blacks and find some rusty and cool metallic tones and start defining the flesh in a different way. If some of those limbs are necrotic, are some of those tubes pumping life back into them? Do they change color depending on how long they have been in the collective? Does the body stay alive?

There are so many things to play with. It is sort of playing with what is there and playing with it. Michael Westmore Jr. did all the lasers and lights inside and LED components. That is something today with 3D printing we can push infinitely further. We can do a lot more lighting and moving parts.

The Borg, as seen in Star Trek: First Contact

Glenn wants to expose the Breen

Later Hetrick also picked up on a fan suggestion which he agreed with, saying he hoped to see the Breen in Star Trek: Discovery. He added:

No one in the universe, as per Worf, has ever seen what they look like under the refrigeration suits. So, that is definitely – as many times as I can put it forth – I want to get one of those refrigeration suits off and see what the Breen look like.

Glenn Hetrick wants to show us what is under the Breen’s helmet in Star Trek: Discovery


Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on Space and streams on CraveTV. It is available on Netflix everywhere else.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news at TrekMovie.

newest oldest
0dkinWood

Please get these no-talent non-creators away from Star Trek. Hetrick is clearly a head-case.

hn4

Get real.

AdAstraPerAspera

If you don’t have anything nice to say about somebody then don’t say anything at all.

There is no need to launch personal attacks on people. Don’t be a bully.

VoR

You seem nice.

PEB

Your anger is delicious. Neville and Glenn have done great work and their aliens look cinematic. Oh and they work with Mr. Westmore on Face-Off (the makeup fx competition show on Sy-Fy) so I’m sure they get his blessing in terms of their skill level.

HN4

Neville and Glenn are fantastic.

Monty

I would agree with you but I couldn’t stomach the show and stopped watching.

Jack

I get that some folks don’t agree with me, but can we please stop thinking that we’re speaking for all fans?

And can we tone down the outrage? It’s a TV show. It’s not real. Can’t we just stick with some variation of “I don’t like these designs, I prefer the old ones” without all the bluster?

The state of discourse is lousy enough in the world right now — surely, we can tone it down when talking about a TV show.

HN4

Bye

Final Warning for personal attack. Civility is required to be at TrekMovie.

Thread closed

hn4

He looks like an anime cat.

GQMF

Please no more Klingons unless we go back to the intelligent and honour devoid ones of TOS. Please no Borg, Enterprise already did that. Yes Breen but leave them in the suits, that’s what makes them interesting and mysterious.

Fabio

Bien dicho, brother!

Jordan

Yes to everything you said.

Drail

considering the breen are actually 4 different species living together, this is why they wear the suits, so that no breen can get ahead or be pushed back based on their species

GQMF

Is that from a book? I thought they were just refridgeration suits because their homeworld is so cold.

albatrosity

If the Borg ever show up on Disco I will lose my sh*t!! I know they’d never so blatantly violate canon though…right…?? I’d be interested to see what a “modern” borg would look like however since I still consider First Contact’s look pretty “modern” ahem for being 22 years old

Just Another Salt Vampire

I kind of hoped that the Borg would show up in the Kelvin Universe, since that would avoid the continuity issues. I want to see Kirk and Spock go up against the Borg.

Captain_neill

They better leave the Borg alone, they should not even be in DSC and they don’t officially appear for another 109 years.

I am not in favour big redesigns of classic aliens. Updates are grand but not redesign. That’s what I love about Andorians and Tellarites on Enterprise, they were updated from the original, not redesigned.

But screwing everything vul seems to be the mission of DSC.

AdAstraPerAspera

The interviewer asked what they would LIKE to do. That’s not a guaranteee that they WILL show up on DSC.

The River Temarc

I basically agree with you that the Borg should not show up.

Having said that, I have always thought it odd that Guinan lived in the Federation for, what, about 80 years after the Borg destroyed El-Auria (as did the other refugees from the ship in GENERATIONS) and none of the told anyone about the Borg. There’s a story in there somewhere, although the timing doesn’t work out for it to be told on DISCO.

DataMat

There is absolutely no reason why the Borg could not feature somehow. If Section 31 can exist and operate all through the timeline then The Borg can make an appearance of some sort.

Tiger2

I guess the difference being Section 31 is secret operative group so its easier to assume they been around but quietly. The Borg does nothing quietly lol.

But yeah that said Star Trek has retcon Borg canon so much at this point its not really hard to have them showing up in this time frame anymore, it just how they do it. Everyone was so upset that they showed up on Enterprise but they actually handled it pretty well and still one of the better Borg episodes.

ML31

If they did have the Borg show up they would have to do it in such a way that the TNG guys remain oblivious to the Borg’s existence. I have little faith that the STD writers would be able to accomplish such a feat.

smerk85

I think, that if the Borg can time travel, per First Contact, there is no reason why they lost that ability. They could totally travel back from the future, and somehow destroy the shore drive/mycelial network, which has to get killed off somehow anyway. Why not have future Borg, realizing that tampering with the mycelial network can destroy everything, end up being the good guys for once, by destroying access to the network. They then leave, due to not wanting to assimilate Earth until their tech is better.

HN4

I really hope the Borg shows up.

Joe

Phasers & compact communicators should not be in this show or Enterprise. The later Capt Pike’s enterprise HAD no phasers – they had LASERS. & the LARGER communicator – also in WNMHGB.

Jonboc

Truth.

Marja

DSC is a re-design/update. My goodness can y’all please get over it.

HN4

@Marja I don’t think they can. They’re too far gone.

ML31

Trek ’09 was a re-design/update too. Which I consider more reboot than anything else.

Tiger2

I would all be for the Borg showing up. As for ‘canon’ they will figure it out. ;)

But yes it really does sound like they want to bring in the Borg so anything is possible.

I'm Dead Jim

Canon has already been set up for a possible Borg appearance in Discovery, beginning of course in First Contact, which reset that timeline on a slightly new course by, as you all know, putting those Borg leftovers in Enterprise where they were all destroyed… or were they? There ya go Disco people. Easy peasy! Just wait until third or fourth season if you can. Work a little more with what you’ve got first.

Tiger2

Exactly!

FC basically changed the game after that. It DID alter the timeline so there are ways to bring them in the 23rd century if they really wanted them to.

I really liked how Enterprise did it. It doesn’t have to be a full on BOBW situation but a way to encounter them. And now that Section 31 is back its even easier to do it since those guys would know all about the Borg and what happened in the 22nd century.

Marja

Does Section 31 do the time travel thing? I thought that was the Department of Temporal Anomalies or something

Tiger2

No I mean the Borg incident in the 22nd century was most likely classified but I would imagine Section 31 would have known all about it and tried to learn about them as much as possible. I’m saying you could easily create a story line around their knowledge of the Borg the same way we saw them involved with the Klingon augment story line.

Again if they decided to go that way in the future.

Marja

Please lord.
I’m not really eager to see the Borg. They’ve been done six ways from Sunday.
Janeway outsmarted them how many times?

Zashun

Considering that the Discovery can travel into alternate universes its entirely possible that they could jump into a timeline where the Enterprise-E didn’t make it back to correct the timeline. Or into a timeline where the resurrected Borg from Enterprise hadn’t been stopped allowing for a mini-collective to have emerged in the Alpha Quadrant.

Curious Cadet

I know they’d never so blatantly violate canon though…right…??
–albatrosity

How does the Borg blatantly violate canon? Starfleet has known about the Borg since ENT. Likely because it’s top secret and classified. There’s plenty of episodes of Trek that have been top secret and classified. The Cage for instance — does anyone in Starfleet who wasn’t onboard the Enterprise during it’s two visits know anything about Talos IV during the TNG era, for instance?

albatrosity

Ah true I just feel like the Borg have no business being in Disco at all — or honestly any Trek moving forward, I think. They’ve been so degraded as villains and what they represent as the ultimate fusion of the biological and technological, while a more relevant theme today than ever, is mired in 90s sensibilities, I think. There are better ways to explore what technology can do to people than the Borg, and I’d like to see a more nuanced and believable threat than just zombies in heavy prosthetics.

Tiger2

The Klingons were suppose to represent the Soviet threat in the 60s…and yet they are still here.

The Borg is super super popular. Netflix released their top 10 rewatched Star Trek episode last year and 8 of the 10 were Borg episodes. So I think most fans really like to see them back.

That said, if they think canon wise they don’t belong in Discovery that’s understandable. But at some point they will be back again.

albatrosity

I’m sure half of those rewatches are mine. I can’t help it, they’re good episodes. I have a love/hate with them but I agree with you they’re too profitable to stay away! Although it’s been 15 years since we seen a Borg on screen, can you believe it

Tiger2

Yeah it is pretty crazy its been that long. Man I feel old lol.

And I do too. I think they went a little too crazy with them on Voyager, but as Enterprise showed they can still be the scary/intimidating species we were originally introduced to. And yes, since its been 15 years now I would love to see what a new set of writers would do with them. And if they appeared on Discovery I imagine it would be a one-off like they were done on Enterprise.

Marja

Yes thank you albatrosity. You said it so much better than I.

If Starfleet “knew” about the Borg since ENT, then Picard and crew in TNG wouldn’t have been so shocked with Q introduced us to them.

ENT basically screwed up the Borg with that episode… and I don’t trust DISCO to do any better.

Leave the future in the future.

HN4

If Starfleet over 100 years ago kept it top secret, why would Picard know?

ML31

After 100 years it seems unlikely it would still be a secret. Even secret documents 50 years old get made public now days. Now if he would be aware of that that specific incident? They way the made the Picrad character so perfect and all knowing it would not seem consistent with the character for him to not be aware of formally secret events that could affect him since he patrols deeps space. I mean, he didn’t exhibit any character weakness until the feature First Concept!

HN4

Star Trek isn’t real life. Plus the US still haven’t released what really happened at Roswell.

Marja

Not all classified documents get made public, my friend.

HN4

@Marja That’s my point.

ML31

Not all… But after a certain amount of time nearly all do. WWII secret docs have been making their way to the public for years. Especially the MAJOR ones. I would classify the Borg discovery as a MAJOR secret. The smart money would be on the Borg incident being revealed to more and more Starfleet members, especially to Captains of ships doing deep space exploration more than 100 years after the events.

Who cares

@ML31 How do you think Seven’s parents learned about the Borg well before Q sent Picard to meet them?

ML31

Who cares,

I don’t have an answer. What was her back story? I don’t recall. Were they on some deep deep deep deep space colony or exploration or one some ship that went through some wormhole or something?

ML31

From what I gleaned about the Talos IV situation is that it is known that visiting the planet evokes the death penalty and that the Enterprise under command of Christopher Pike was the only starship to visit. Beyond that, I think the matter is classified.

Firebrand

Thanks, TrekMovie! I always love this creative stuff.

Nice to see the original Saru makeup (minus VFX).
Although the design is cool the final ‘Saru’ feels like it was the right choice to make. Still, must’ve been a tough decision to let this one go (at least for now).

Not sure about the Borg though. But I am sure, hope they will never show the Breen. IMHO, sometimes it is more rewarding to keep the mystery. (I guess Morn would agree with me. ;-)

And hope they get a tail in there.

ML31

Yeah… I have to say while it was fun to see the rest of a Tholian in Enterprise, I was a bit disappointed that the head turned out to be their actual head and not a helmet! But the spidery legs was interesting…

Gonzo

I understand a designer wanting to unmask the Breen, but I think it works better to leave it a mystery. Especially in a thing like Star Trek, where the mission is to learn more and more about a species (to the point of being sick of them in some cases), it’s rare to NOT see everything.

FASAfan

Agreed. I would have preferred the Tholians remain that way instead of being revealed in ENT.

Martin

Likewise! They were genuinely nightmare inducing before… for the very fact you didn’t understand what they were. Once you see them, and corny CGI at that, ruined. Spielberg’s Jaws works for that very reason. Nowadays the ‘less is more’ formula has been forgotten.

Tiger2

Yes I agree. Keep the Breen as is. What made them so cool is we didn’t understand a single word lol. And that we have no idea what they look like. They felt very mysterious and threatening that way.

Soren

I agree completely.

ML31

Regarding Jaws and the shark… That was not the intent. Speilberg himself tells us the shark was originally going to be seen a LOT more but the constantly malfunctioning shark props necessitated the need to hide it more than was intended. And it turned out it played out more effective that way.

Curious Cadet

@Gonzo — if only they would have taken that approach with the Klingon appearance in DS9 and ENT.

Martin

“contemporize that aesthetic with audiences demand today and expect.” Ummmm, I think you’ll find your audience wanted your series to honour what came before. Your series is a visual reboot and ignores the rich 50 year tapestry of Star Trek. You promised diverse Klingons before season 1 aired, and you lied. You’re lying again. You don’t care about fans, or the franchise. You’re just a fortunate hack who’s got another gig… luckily to a series with the primary ethos of ‘change for changes sake’ SO PLEASE don’t continue to insult the fans intelligence by pretending you care. Go and screw up the borg aswell.. Jerks the lot of them.

AdAstraPerAspera

How immature. Grow up and stop attacking people because they will not conform to your expectations of what Star Trek should look like or should be about.

The truth is that these people are not making Star Trek for YOU. They are making it for a wider audience. If you can’t accept that, don’t watch. And if you cannot be respectful: log off.

HN4

@AdAstraPerAspera Truth.

PEB

Yes because Star Trek fans are supposed to be so science-minded but can’t understand that Klingons…an entire species…wouldn’t all look exactly alike. Laughable

Jack

@Martin Ambien commenting?

I’m pretty darned happy with Discovery, visually. And I’ve been watching Trek since I was 4 in 1974.

Can we tone down the accusation of lies? There were diverse Klingons, just not TNG Klingons, yet.

bobtheaxolotl

You’re not in charge of Star Trek, Martin, and you don’t speak for the audience. Quit trying to gatekeep Star Trek. You’re an ass.

Final Warning for personal attack. Civility is required to be at TrekMovie.

Thread closed.

Stef

I hope the have a story with the tholians.

JAGT

“May we finally do the Borg, pleeease?” – “No!” – “PUH-LEEEEEEAZE!” – “No!” – “P-p-pretty please?” – “Alright, make your Borg then. We’ll gonna shove ’em in the next season… somehow” – “Hooray!”

Robert

I hope they stay away form the Borg. Using them in ENT was plausible because of First Contact. As the signal would take 200 years to reach the delta quadrant, the TNG era is where the Borg appear.

It would make no sense in using them in a pre-TOS era

Danpaine

…absolutely no sense whatsoever. Which is why we’ll probably see them.

ML31

If there were thumbs up’s to click on for comments that one would get mine.

I'm Dead Jim

Just the fact that the Borg were in the canon of Enterprise changed things in that timeline. Maybe some were missed and not destroyed by Archer. That could very easily be how Discovery writers could justify bringing them back in their show.

Isabella

The vast majority of Klingons wore the same outfits in tos and tng etc because they were wearing Klingon defence uniforms, uniforms tends to be universal hence they all wore the same uniforms.

Captain_neill

Exactly, the Klingons were in uniform.and the uniforms did not change as often as Starfleet is all.

These designers frustrate me.

Isabella

The show’s leadership more than the designers are the frustrating part of discovery.

They seem to approach everything bar the actual story in a super complicated fashion.

Everything bar the writing has to be super super complex from the makeup to the uniforms to the design of the ships.
Yet at the same time it’s all half baked in the sense the show does not actually show off the special effects or any of the complicated costumes etc.
They never seemed to actually want to show any of their work off while at the same time they put huge effort into the production. Which makes no sense.

Flowo

Military uniforms differ from country to country to country.

WWII would have been interesting if EVERYONE would have worn nazi uniforms.
D’uh!

Isabella

What different Klingon country/planet military forces did we see in Star Trek?
The Klingon empire has a unified military which is called the Klingon defense forces hence they all wear the same uniforms.

AdAstraPerAspera

The Klingon military- and the Empire in general- of the 2350s ISN’T unified. Season 1 made that very clear. Clearly you missed that or are overlooking it.

Isabella

What’s your point?

Neville said that the Klingons in tos and tng wore the same clothes, that there was little variation. I pointed out that of course there was little variation in tos and tng, this is because the vast majority of Klingons were members of the Klingon defense force hence they all wore the same outfits.

HN4

TOS was crap.

Isabella

What a little troll you are.

HN4

I still love you. 愛

albatrosity

booo 👎

AdAstraPerAspera

My point is from what I gathered over the course of Season 1 that the Klingon Empire didnt appear to HAVE a defence force. All the houses acted on their own except for the ones who united under Kol and we KNOW not all of them did.

In the penultimate episode, its stated that after Discovery destroyed the Ship of the Dead- the Klingons who united under Kol went back to the infighting between houses that led T’Kuvma to try and unite the 24 houses.

This is a longwinded way of saying that of course there was no unified defence force in the 2350s because each house was at loggerheads with the others. Obviously at some point before Errand Of Mercy- things changed and a uniform was adopted.

Tiger2

But didn’t they have a defense force during Enterprise’s era? Why wouldn’t they have one now?

Marja

Treaties [say, between Klingon houses] get broken? A force uniting all Klingons in ENT’s day became somehow untenable? There could be many realistic reasons.

Tiger2

Yeah but there is nothing in canon that suggests that. They could do it though but it would feel like a retcon to me.

Marja

Exactly.

Jonboc

Truth!

The River Temarc

We don’t know how unified it is. It reminds me of, say, Lebanon in the 1980s or Iraq or Pakistan more recently (lots of bleed from the military to irregular militias, etc.).

PEB

Meanwhile Starfleet changes uniforms like most people change hairstyles. When you really stop and think about it, having another species stick with the same look over hundreds of years is pretty much a joke. Convenient and money-saving, but still a joke.

Isabella

Or they don’t change because they are traditional and unlike the federation Klingon culture does not need to change. Whereas the federation always changes because it’s constantly including new worlds.
Whereas the Klingons just conquers people.

Roman’s did not change their uniforms.
The British were the red coats for centuries.

It’s actually sillier to constantly change uniforms and have vast variations within the same uniforms. Like the silly blue jumpsuits of discovery compared to the new multi uniforms for enterprise in season 2.
Militaries function on uniformity.

HN4

@Isabella I really don’t believe you.

Isabella

Written like the small little troll that you are.

It’s called history, look it up.
It might do you better to learn some history than constantly trying to troll people.
It just makes you look kinda sad.

AdAstraPerAspera

Again Isabella- if you cannot have a reasonable discussion about your differences without resorting to calling people a troll, then i suggest you log off.

And for the record HN4 did not troll you. He did not attack you personally, he simply said that he did noy agree with your viewpoint. That is not trolling. It is not even CLOSE to trolling In fact, YOU attacked HIM by inferring he was stupid with your clapback.

If anybody comes out of this looking poorly- it is you.

Isabella

Telling me “I don’t really believe you”.

When I wrote about the uniforms of the British and Roman soldiers which is something which can be looked up, alongside loads of other comments posted by that user is trolling.

It is not a matter of belief, it is either a historical fact or it is not. There is no need for belief. Either I’m right or I am wrong, in which case I have made a mistake.

It really is amazing that you criticize my posts let you do not do the same to HN4 who can say “TOS was crap” or ”Klingons should look like aliens, not guys in latex and bad wigs. If you want to see lame Klingons go to to a comic con”. But I guess that’s not trolling.

Russell Meyers

Isabella, any rational person can see that guy is a troll, please continue with your intelligent posting and ignore them.

AdAstraPerAspera

So somebody disagreeing with you is trolling but you inferring he is not intelligent is not you trolling him?

Um… sure. You keep doing the absolute most, I guess. You do you.

Tiger2

Look, I’ll simplify this for everyone: You’re ALL trolls! Better? ;D

Seriously, no one is actually trolling here, everyone is just being a little too sensitive. HN4 does come off like he’s trolling at times (or maybe more accurately baiting) but in this instance he simply disagrees. Nothing wrong with that.

Marja

Isabella, so don’t call him a troll. Say “facts are facts.” And if you see HN4 making trolly comments like ad hoc attacks, then fine, let the mods know.

He’s made a lot of comments I disagree with, like your examples above; either I ignore them or respond reasonably that it’s just HIS opinion and my opinion is different.

I hate the name-calling too, but I also hate when people take stuff super-personally. And don’t assume I’m speaking about you.

PEB

Why would the jumpsuits be silly? There’s literally 50 years of Trek where you can point to large changes in uniforms – which was my original point. If uniforms stayed the same across the board I would totally see what you’re saying but it’s like they change for the Federation and barely if any changes are made for other factions. That, to me, is silly and kills the argument right there.

Marja

Theyre not jumpsuits; the last crew we saw on ST that wore jumpsuits was on NX-01 Enterprise.

Discovery uniforms are trousers, undershirt, jacket. (With comfortable-looking, uncomfortable-for-the-actors boots. Go figure.)

Marja

First, they are not silly blue jumpsuits, those were in Enterprise and based on today’s NASA. I personally love the blue Discovery uniforms, JMHO, YMMV. I hope they don’t change them just to please fans who want to go back to TOS.

Militaries have different uniforms. Have a look at the US Navy, Army, Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard..

The British Army and Marines wore red coats; I don’t know if “centuries” is correct [but you’ve made me curious about it]. The British Navy wore blue coats with white facings in the 18th and part of the 19th century, then lost the white facings somewhere in the mid-1800s.

Marja

Yep

Eric Cheung

Even if the Klingons were united, it would be unrealistic for them to have only one type of uniform, even within the same period of time. It would be nice to see several variants based on mission, military branch, house, etc.

Curious Cadet

Even if the Klingons were united, it would be unrealistic for them to have only one type of uniform, even within the same period of time. It would be nice to see several variants based on mission, military branch, house, etc.
–Eric Cheung

Well said. Thank god they aren’t sticking to the uninspired, budget limited visual continuity created in the 1960s and perpetrated through the TNG era without question. I’m also thritlled the Klingons no longer look like a bad 80s metal hair band. They look like real aliens with their own unique culture befitting a race spawn thousands of light years away.

albatrosity

Agreed, I think the visual design of the new Klingons was a good move. I even liked JJ’s Klingons, which were very sinister and alien. But the hair metal Klingons of ancient history needed to go.

Marja

Agreed, Eric, Curious and alba.

I bet we will see Klingons with hair in season 2! I just hope they don’t reimagine the Borg if they get the chance to play with them, as the Borg are as iconic as the Klingons were til the redesign.

Jon1701

Looks like the original costume in that test.

Cranston

With the running shoes and without insignia, it totally looks like a track suit!

TrekFan

Show the Borg! And the Breen! I’m all for it, we can do a lot more these days then back in the 90s. #sostoked!

Jai

Hetrick is using some seriously circular logic in his strawman arguments:

”When you look at beloved Klingons from TOS and Next Gen and the movie series, and the way the look evolves, the one thing that always bothered me is their wardrobe is almost always the same. The look is almost always unified.”

That’s because most of those Klingons were wearing military uniforms at the time and (with the exception of TNG’s civil war episodes) they all belonged to the same unified military.

Jai

Hetrick: ”If you think about the cultural patina that is the human species that is on this planet for a relatively short amount of time and how different our cultures look … the Klingon Empire, having of course not all grown up on Qo’noS but all these different planets, the Houses would look incredibly different.”

Beyond some basic local variations, “No they would not”, because they’re all part of the ruling class of the same empire. In all real-life empires throughout history, the ruling class always had broadly the same appearance even if they’d grown up far from their places of origin, because of the latter’s dominant cultural influence in the empire and because it was also seen as a signifier of belonging to that dominant group.

Once again, people involved in DSC really are just making things up.

Jai

There was similar nonsense in the recent interview of the guy playing “the head of Section 31” (aside from the stupidity of depicting a decentralised black ops organisation having a single head who would personally turn up on the homeworld of a dangerous enemy — and just after a major war — to personally recruit an unpredictable asset) : https://trekmovie.com/2018/03/31/alan-van-sprang-teases-his-section-31-role-in-star-trek-discovery-season-2/

The interviewer asked the actor if he was “doing any research on modern day spy stuff, like the CIA, or spycraft” as part of his preparation for the role. The guy basically replied “Yes, I’m reading the Section 31 novels.” So the real answer was actually “No”.

This is the level of cluelessness we’re dealing with.

The River Temarc

Blame DS9 for that, not DISCO. Sloan showed up on Romulus, didn’t he?

Isabella

The difference is Sloan was part of an official delegation to Romulus.
Plus was he actually the head of 31, or just a top man?

It is a fair point to ask why would a thrill be allowed to allowed to walk around on enemy territory by the Klingons?

Tiger2

OK I’m confused, do we know Trills were enemies with the Klingons at this time? I assumed he went as a Trill BECAUSE they had some kind of diplomatic ties at least. When did the Trill homeworld join the Federation?

Robert

I agree. It all looks like change for the sake of change. Never understood why the DSC team never worked with the explanation that was given for the Klingon look in ENT. Aside from the look, I seriously dislike the way the ships are designed.The TOS / TMP D7’s are amazing and should’ve been used as well as the search for spock bird of prey’s.

Danpaine

Agreed, Robert. Ship design is something I’m very disappointed with in DSC, as space shots of the ships in action are something I (used to) find very impressive in Trek.

AdAstraPerAspera

I rarely agree with you when it comes to DISCO, Danpaine- but even I cannot deny that the space shots in Season 1 were terrible (outside of Episodes 8 and 9).

Danpaine

…and it would appear, given the high production values shown with the props, sets, etc., that they have the budget for great sfx(?) I just don’t get it.

DIGINON

@ Danpaine: I vaguely remember reading an interview with one of the producers where he said that they under-budgeted VFX during season 1. My guess is they underestimated the amount of VFX shots they would need (there’s probably a lot of green screen work that we may not even be aware of). Hopefully, they will have a better grasp on that for season 2. Then again, some people think that the way the space shots look is a deliberate stylistic choice. Who knows?

albatrosity

I agree the space shots weren’t up to snuff in season one, but at the very least they created a visual style that they stuck with, and some of the effects — like Disco riding the “mycelial wave” or whatever out of the MU — really stick with me and made me recognize what an iconic design the Discovery could prove to be. I still think the ship is out of proportion in many ways, but the mere exposure effect will eventually kick in and I’ll like Disco like the rest.

Jack

It doesn’t always work, but I’m thrilled they’re trying something different. My biggest disappointment in the Enterprise pilot was seeing a TNG Klingon. We had nearly 20 years of homogeneity.

HN4

@Robert It’s because the explanation was $hit.

Everyone knows that a bigger budget was the reason. Even in that stupid ENT episode the no ridges Klingons still looked nothing like the ones from TOS. Plus if the Klingons are so ashamed of having no ridges why the hell are they all over the place on TOS? How come Kirk and crew doesn’t notice the changed?

ML31

Because over 100 years later the change is known and quite common. No one would bat an eye at a ridgeless Klingon in Kirk’s day. It also stands to reason that the ridgeless Klingons over 100 years later would not be looked upon with the same scorn as they were originally. Even Klingons evolve socially. At least a little.

Tiger2

Well they had nearly a century to get use to the idea. But yes the ridgeless story line doesn’t make a lot of sense because its like everyone forgot they had ridges. I mean on DS9 we saw Klingons from TOS like Kor who suddenly had ridges. Was that suppose to be a prosthetic or did he somehow genetically get them back?

And its odd no one would know he was ridgeless before. At the very least Dax would know since she was literally around during TOS.

ML31

Yeah, that is the can of worms you open when it was decided to create an in canon reason for the change. Personally, I never felt it needed one. For TMP they had the budget to make the Klingons more alien than they could in TOS and went for it. It’s been the standard ever since. We can go forward with that. However, the change made for STD really makes no sense. That wasn’t a budgetary thing. That was just change for change sake. Not good.

Tiger2

No the explanation wasn’t needed but same time I understood why they tried considering how anal fans can get with canon and that was a big canon hole. But yeah sometimes we have to reel in our imagination and remember its still just a TV show with production limits. They simply didn’t have the money and technology to make Klingons look more exotic during TOS but by the time the movies and later shows came around, they did, so they changed it. End of discussion. Not everything needs a convoluted backstory.

The Klingons change for DIS was just Fuller putting his own stamp on the show. I have NO issues with that but yes coming back to the canon issue again it probably would’ve just been better they called this a reboot and move on. And they could do whatever they wanted and then don’t have to explain why the uniforms look nothing like the Cage ones and why the Starships feel and look more advanced than ships in the 24th century but they seem afraid of calling that for some reason.

Rick Scott

The explanation only seemed to become needed when they made the DS9 tribbles homage, and kind of had to. It’s seems likely ENT wouldn’t even have touched it if the visual discrepancy didn’t become in universe canon when Worf verbally acknowledged it.

HN4

You would think that super genius Bashir would know all about Klingons.

ML31

Rick, I disagree. I think the DS9 tribble episode had ZERO to do with it. In fact, the way the DS9 crew was astonished to see the ridgeless Klingons sorta didn’t work with what Enterprise did. I guess that 240 years later the ridgeless Klingons could be all but a thing of the past. But that is just fan speculation.

Marja

“Canon hole” … now that’s an interesting coinage

ML31

One theory… STD producers fear a complete reboot would alienate too many hard core Trek fans from buying into the CBSAA service. Hence, this is what we get in an attempt to get as many subscribers to CBSAA as possible.

Tiger2

Yeah I guess. Or they could’ve just went the Kelvin direction and say the show takes place in a different universe (which many people are saying anyway) but maybe the same issue.

IDK, but I’m guessing as long as it had Star Trek in the title people were going to watch it regardless or at least give it a chance. And oddly reboots seem to be accepted in every other major franchise I’m not sure why they couldn’t try it here. Star Wars fans seem to be begging for Disney to reboot it all since they seem to hate their franchise more than we hate ours lately lol.

But maybe this is what 50 straight years of the same canon has done to us and make us so rigid Star Trek is only what has came before. I certainly hope not.

HN4

@Tiger2 Star Trek fans need to relax.

Tiger2

Star Trek fans haven’t relaxed since the 80s lol. I don’t think that will change anytime soon, especially when stuff like the Kelvin films and Discovery seem so divisive.

But yes same time most of us should be happy we are still getting Star Trek, even if its not the Star Trek they particularly want.

AdAstraPerAspera

Discovery is only really divisive on hard core fan sites like this. Most people ive spoken to who watch the show really enjoy it and there has been some really good buzz about the show from the digital media. Of course, I fully expect to be told Im wrong by the more vocal elements of this site.

Tiger2

I literally don’t know anyone who watches the show in real life, so I only have the internet to fall back on and yeah for the internet its VERY divisive.

HN4

@AdAstraPerAspera In other words “Normal people like the show”

Tiger2

No one knows who even watches the show though. I’m not saying you’re wrong of course but there has been zero data from CBS about how many are watching, the main demographic, general audience rating, etc. What Adastra said could be 100% true but its just anecdotal, which is fine, but it doesn’t tell us much. But on sites like Rottentomatoes the audience score is currently 56% but the critic score is much better at 81% (getting The Last Jedi vibes lol). On IMDB its current rating is 7.4 which is decent but believe it or not that’s actually the lowest rated Star Trek show of the six. The second lowest is Enterprise with 7.5 and the highest is (not surprisingly) The Next Generation with 8.6. TOS is second highest at 8.3. Lastly Metacritic like RT it seems to score a bit higher with actual critics giving it a 72% which is kind of in the middle of the pack of all the Trek shows. BUT once again audience score is dismal with around a 4.7. For comparison sake TNG gets a 8.5. In fact all the shows are again rated higher with around 8.0 or above with the exception of Enterprise. But even that has an audience score of 7.1. Although to make this VERY clear the audience score for the older shows are only a few votes. Discovery is the only one with a healthy voter margin of 450 votes (my guess being new) but yes more than half puts it in the negative category. But its lopsided in terms of actual votes as well. So when I say the show is highly divisive online, I meant it. That said so was TNG when it first came out. And then DS9 so it has plenty of time to… Read more »

ML31

Tiger,
“its surprising how many fans seem to not like this show.”

It was surprising to me how many voiced concern over the show when they first heard the premise of it. But not surprising how many didn’t like it after having actually seen it.

But I guess a big question is which is preferable, bad Star Trek or no Star Trek?

Tiger2

Yes I was actually here when news broke of what the premise would be and yes it was divisive lol. Some really loved the idea of having a pre-TOS show while people like me loathed the idea. But I think most people was willing to wait and see what they did first before making a final judgement. And yeah it still feels very mixed although some people like me has come around a little more but mostly because it hasn’t just been one big nostalgia/fan servic piece which I was originally afraid of. But it still has a lot of other issues on its own. And as for your question I will admit for me its the former. I don’t consider Discovery ‘bad’ but yes has tons of room for improvement for sure. And we have to remember, as I mentioned in the post above, most Trek shows start off iffy to bad but basically all improve in time. You can argue to what degree but they all gotten better. The only Trek show I gave up on early was Enterprise and I now regret that decision as it really got good. But I just didn’t like it being a prequel and the first season didn’t wow me so I stopped watching. Now oddly enough I rewatch a lot of first season episodes over and over again. Thats why I HOPE people who think Discovery sucks now stick it out a bit more. I don’t think it will rise to TNG or DS9 level of good for me but who knows? And season 2 does sound a lot more promising even if I’m still not sold on the entire premise. And for people like me who want to see Trek move forward again maybe we will get that in time.… Read more »

Marja

Tiger: some people like me has come around a little more but mostly because it hasn’t just been one big nostalgia/fan servic piece which I was originally afraid of.

And I hope like hell they don’t make it nostalgia/fan service. I’ve been worried ever since the Enterprise made an appearance and further worried when I saw the new-old uniforms.

Tiger2

I am too Marja.

But the Enterprise reveal doesn’t bother me only because it was feeling like the elephant in the room in terms of Burnham and Spock so I actually understand why they are doing it. And yes they want to ‘reconcile’ canon so I get they want to clear up the uniform thing which personally bothered me.

Marja

I talked to a guy in a cafe last night who said he really liked the tone of Discovery because it was like DS9, his other favorite Trek. “People had differences. It isn’t all sweetness and light; that’s not how people are; and that’s why I like Discovery and DS9.”

The other thing he said is that some of the plot points seemed obvious to him. I feel a bit dim when people say they suspected Lorca from the first episode in which he appeared. But then, I like to believe the best of people ….

ML31

Tiger,

Regarding “fan service”, that’s what the appearance of Enterprise felt like at the end. The occasional mention of a Constitution class or some other organically placed element is fine. But to actually have the ship show up… It still feels like a mistake to me. Even if it is only around for two episodes in S2. The show just reeks of behind the scenes production problems. Was the appearance of the Enterprise planned to be the end from day one? Or did they tag it on as a response to how they saw things going in the middle of their production? Either way, it was a poor decision IMHO. They really needed to make their own way before doing something as blatantly fanboy pleasing as that.

Marja,

I just want to take this moment again to repeat that I had heard the same fan theories that Lorca was really evil-Lorca from the MU long before the show went to the MU. And again, I dismissed those theories because I could not believe the writers and show runners could be so very bad that they would actually for real do something so monumentally DUMB. For me, that reveal completely undermined everything and from that time on it became impossible to take anything in the show seriously. If they could do THAT… God only knows what other dumb things they would do. The sky is the limit on stupidity now.

Tiger2

Of course the Enterprise is ultimate fan service lol. But I excuse it for no other reason than it just started to feel weird we kept hearing about Spock being Burnham’s sister and all and yet we never see the guy. I think it was you I talked to about in another thread about the episode Lethe and how it bothered me no one contacted Spock. Again I get it obviously but it just felt odd how no one even suggests to get in touch with the guy. Someone who could actually mind meld and reach his father.

In other word its the elephant in the room problem with the idea you have these two characters related, both in Starfleet, but never cross paths. It just feel unrealistic, especially given Burnham’s situation that her brother would never once contact her. But of course this is only an issue because some genius decided to make them siblings in the first place but now that they are I can’t imagine going five seasons and we never see any interaction.

So I think its to get it out of the way, give some explanation why we don’t even see them talk, show a bit of the Enterprise to please fans and HOPEFULLY move on.

I’m guessing the Enterprise will probably show up again but I’m hoping it will be very sporadic.

ML31

Fair enough, Tiger. I do want to say that to me if feels completely realistic and reasonable that Discovery and Enterprise never cross paths. It’s a big universe out there. It seems amazingly unlikely those specific vessels out of hundreds of ships would perform a rendezvous. I also think it completely reasonable that Spock and Burnham NEVER speak or contact each other. The only time I would think is for some sort of life event. Burnham gets married or to inform her that Sybok has died or something.

If the show people want to retcon their uniforms or something there are probably other ways to do it without performing blatant fan service. And again, it also feels ridiculous to refuse to cast Spock now that they have recast Pike and had the Enterprise show up. It will be a total cop out if they say, “Spock is on assignment” or she walks into his quarters and we fade out. Or we see a black haired guy in a blue shirt from behind briefly. Now that they opened that can of Enterprise such things would be monumentally dumb. But then, it wouldn’t be the first time for this show…

HN4

@ML31 Or they just didn’t want to use those old lame 90’s makeup designs.

Michael Conrad

This all sounds very promising. Just curious, though: regarding the Breen, didn’t Kira and Dukat take a couple Breen out and disguise themselves on their uniforms when rescuing Gul Dukat’s daughter? Seems reasonable to assume both Kira and Dukat know what the Breen look like.

Bingo! Me and my friends wondered the same thing when we watched that episode during its original airing. Alas, continuity was not always DS9’s strong suit (exhibit A: “The Emperor’s New Cloak”).

Mark Mc

Discovery isn’t Star Trek. Its just a pig with lipstick. If you have a core story that is completely POS, any amount of “new aliens” is just another distraction.

alphantrion

How about Tholians? I always thought they had an interesting design and were very underused in the other series and please show the elaborate designs more clearly in the new episodes. It seems like they are designing some cool stuff but we see them for like a microsecond. I want some close ups.

Billshatner

“it has to look like a borg”

LOL why is that? you have bastardized the Canon look of everything else…

kmart

Since it always have seemed like CBS is trying to get a GoT effect from TREK, I keep thinking that they’re looking for a visual equivalent to white walkers or some other popular GoT folks. They SHOULD be looking for writers who can come up with a recurring phrase at least as catchy as “winter is coming” (which always makes me think of a lyric in WHEEL IN THE SKY), or maybe even just something less but catchy-popular like ‘resistance is futile.’

Come to think of it, IS there a catch phrase — ANY catch phrase — to associate with DSC thus far? Outside of the “‘fuckin’ cool!” line that pretty much says what I think is NOT true about the series.

albatrosity

Well, I can’t exactly think of what catchphrases came out of DS9, VOY or ENT so…and the Kevlin timeline has what exactly, “Punch it”? Isn’t that from Star Wars anyway? I give the writers a pass on this one — it’s hard to create an instantly iconic catchphrase. Really it would only work if the larger story/writing is well executed and popular. Which, well, Disco being what it is…

AdAstraPerAspera

Agreed. The Andorians were wildly different. As were the Vulcans.

Oh wait….

Marja

The only difference I noticed in the Andorians [from those depicted in ST: ENT] is brow fins. Or whatever those are. Ridges? Aretes?

“…the Klingon Empire, having of course not all grown up on Qo’noS but all these different planets, the Houses would look incredibly different. And we are really just starting, wait until you see season two…”

They should make one “House of Ru’Pol” and all the Klingons there would be in fuchsia and feathers.

‘ej Soy’chu’taHmo’ vaj lol mup!

I'm Dead Jim

– They should make one “House of Ru’Pol” and all the Klingons there would be in fuchsia and feathers.”

Lol. At least then they’d have hair. Amiright?

Marja

RuPaul doesn’t have hair, or if he does he shaves his head. Makes it easier to put on wigs I guess ….

Paying lip service is these Discovery guys real deal. I stopped believing their word since that “The Vulcan Hello” crap.

HN4

Oh please……

AdAstraPerAspera

Care to elaborate and have a reasonable discussion?

I'm Dead Jim

Please describe said “crap”.

Brian

If the continuum has told you once, they’ve told you a thousand times DONT PROVOKE THE BORG.

Brian

So if there are humans living off the planet, why do they all look the same? Because they’re the same damn species. Why do I bring this up? So that you can all see their explanation for changing the look of klingons sounds ridiculous.

The River Temarc

But in fairness, humans don’t do genetic engineering, thanks to Khan Noonian Singh. Other species may have used genetic engineering to adapt to life in space and on colonies. (Indeed, I recall that it was expressly stated Denobulans did this.)

Isabella

So where are the traditional Klingons then?
Why did Neville say in an interview last year that discovery’s Klingons naturally don’t have hair due to their evolution as a apex predator?

Marja

Maybe there are several species of Klingons, as there were Xindi in ENT.

Jack

We don’t all look the same.

albatrosity

But we’re all recognizably human. You don’t see some humans with four nostrils and other humans without let’s say nipples or what have you. So yeah, we all look different — but we’re way more similar to one another than Disco Klingons vs TNG Klingons vs TOS Klingons

tkb1701

No BORG please!!!!Save it for an episode of face off

Danpaine

Whatever alien species they want to introduce is fine, more power to them. But Why, oh Why(!) did they have to place this show right before TOS in the timeline? A Glaring issue would be if they brought in the Borg at this point. If they’d simply placed DSC post-TNG, the showrunners would have had an open palette to work with, and could have introduced literally anything they wanted (which they’ll do anyway).

Bring the Borg in now, to me they’re just confirming, once again despite what they claim, that we’re dealing with an alternate universe here.

AdAstraPerAspera

Considering that the producers have said Season 2 will line up with canon, i dont think we will see the borg.

ML31

They also said season one would by the time in ended. They have “said” a lot of things about their changes to the Trek universe that never came to be. I find it difficult to take their word for things any more.

albatrosity

It’s hard to trust anyone in charge of the franchise anymore. Ever since the producers got caught lying red-handed to the fans in the promotion of STID, we have to assume that the producers will say anything to placate fan anxiety while continuing to make the product they want to make, whether the fans like it or not.

HN4

You call not revealing a major movie spoiler a lie? Ok, if that’s the hill you want to make a stand on.

albatrosity

When they say it’s one thing and they’re intentionally misrepresenting the facts, that’s called lying. Doesn’t matter what it’s in service of. They designed the plot to revolve around the big reveal and they lied to the fans to preserve it.

HN4

Yeah get comfy on that hill.

albatrosity

I dunno what you’re on about HN4 I’m not mad or even think it was necessarily a wrong move. They lied all the same and I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say, that they didn’t? These are facts, and the fact is like Tiger said a lot of fans lost their trust in JJ at that point, and I think Disco cemented that feeling of not being able to trust what comes out of producers’ mouths.

Marja

“fans lost their trust in JJ”
… and JJ cried all the way to the bank

Tiger2

I never got on their case about that but yes sadly I think it rubbed most fans the wrong way from that point on. I get and understand why they had to lie though because you don’t want to spoil your big twist before the film comes out. But then again I always believed if they just made it clear from day one who was playing Khan people would’ve warmed up to it by the time the film came out. But its probably a no-win scenario when it came to STID because people REALLY hated the idea of Khan being in the movie and who was playing him.

Best thing to do was not have him in the movie at all.

ML31

“Best thing to do was not have him in the movie at all.”

I wholeheartedly agree. But that ship has sailed long ago.

ML31

Did they lie about Baltizar Edison as well?

ML31

The issue with STID was just to avoid spoilers. I cannot fault them for that. The issue with STD is they told us the apparent inconsistencies will be sorted out by the end of the season. Then towards the end they said, check that… We man they will be sorted out in season 2. Not cool to backtrack like that. Not cool. All that tells us is they realized nothing would get settled in season one and pushed it back. They pushed it back once. I see no reason why they won’t push it back yet again.

albatrosity

It’s just that when they lie about their creative decisions, and then fans go on to hate those creative decisions, they look like right a-holes when they should’ve just been up front about it in the first place. Yes STID was tricky because the reveal was important to the plot, but everyone was upset after they put Khan in and that’s why lying about it made it look that much worse. Same happened with Disco, they lied about their continuity and fans hated it and it made the lies sting that much more. Should any of it matter? Not really, but I totally feel what fans are saying when they’re rubbed the wrong way by all of this.

ML31

Well albatrosity, I cannot speak for all the fans but from my point of view it seems out of place to get mad because they wanted to avoid spoilers. If Orci and Kurtzman feared the public would be upset just because they used Khan and they cared about that, they would not have used Khan to begin with. My guess is they did not feel there would be a negative reaction to using Khan (again). I wouldn’t say that STD “lied” about their continuity problems either. I believe they “think” they are adhering to it. Just as some fans on this site feel they are. But you and I both know that what they have done does not seem to fit in the timeframe they put their show in. They “think” they are adhering to canon just because they mention Constitution class ships and Captain Archer. But the continuity is more than just name dropping. But that is something they don’t seem to understand about Star Trek. The canon is so very set at this point that there are some timeframes where if you set a show in them you really really need to be very very careful with the entire look and feel of EVERYTHING. Trek is at the point where if you want to create your own universe with a loose association to the Star Trek Federation and Star Fleet then you really need to go forward in time. Not back.

Tiger2

Honestly I think its really Fuller who wanted this time period and no one actually working on the show now. Its pretty obvious just looking at everything and how they talk in interviews many would probably want a more forward time period to have the freedom to do what they want but this is what was chosen so you can only do so much.

And of course even Fuller didn’t originally see the show just staying in this era when he originally was thinking of an anthology show and wanted to explore multiple periods but CBS shot that down and here we are.

To be honest I’m already sick of the Klingons and I would love to at least see the Romulans show up but canon makes even that nearly impossible although they found creative ways to bring them in on Enterprise. I really hope the next show goes forward again.

Danpaine

Seriously. I’m all for respecting the past and throwing a few easter eggs in there as a shout-out to the old days, but this time period they’re in really handcuffs them in terms of what they can/can’t/shouldn’t use. I think that anthology idea would have really worked out well, and very much wish they would leave this pre-TOS time period alone.

Discovery has a spore-drive which can take it anywhere, given the right conditions. I’d love to see it get thrown into the future, and stay there for the rest of the shows’ run. Give us new planets, new species, new ideas. That, done right, would be some bold storytelling and proper sci-fi.

Tiger2

Yes I love the spore drive too because it just has the ability to expand story lines and they have already shown it can go both to other universes and time jump so the possibilities are endless.

But yes even the spore drive feels VERY out of place for this time period. It would make a lot more sense if it was used post Voyager and why I always find these silly arguments like a show going farther into the future would be using ‘magic’ technology as if the spore drive isn’t magic technology already lol. And its even more proof the writers/producers really want to play with more futuristic ideas but sort of constrained with the time period….so they just shoehorn in it anyway. Makes no sense.

But yes I hope in time it leads to exploring different ereas of Trek as well. Just new ideas. It may not but with the little we seen of Discovery so far there is really nothing that ship can’t do if they want to go into the future or even other universes.

ML31

The problem I have with the spore drive is similar to the problem some writers had with the replicators. In that, with a working spore drive you can literally go ANYWHERE in the wink of an eye. Things get tough in combat? Spore out of there. It’s like giving characters control of time travel. Things looked bad for Kirk and Picard fighting Soran? Let the Nexus come and hop back to try again. But the concept of the spore drive sending Discovery 100 years into the future works. Starfleet abandons the “dangerous” spore dive program (they have no idea what happened to Discovery). And our gang on Discovery don’t use it (except in perhaps a DIRE emergency) given the weird time stuff it brings with it.

Tiger2

No I don’t disagree, the spore drive makes things probably too easy ALTHOUGH they have found ways to put limits on it, even if temporarily like when they ended up in the MU. They couldn’t just push a button and end up in the prime universe again.

But for ME this is why I like Star Trek. I love seeing technology pushed the most creative way possible. Star Trek plays in a universe where literally anything can happen so its fun to see all the technology and alien powers used in really crazy ways.

And I just never bought into this belief that the 23rd century was more ‘grounded’ and ‘realistic’when you still had the Enterprise jumping through time or meeting Apollo.

But yes I don’t want it to the extent nothing ever feels truly dangerous either. Obviously though the writers don’t want to lose the spore drive because it gives them a real creative plot device but like so much of this show it makes no sense having it because I refuse to believe 100 years later they wouldn’t have this technology in some form. You can’t ‘classify’ something like this, especially when your technology is tied into a network that is ingrained into the universe itself. Everyone would be working on this idea once it gets out its even possible.

I’m sure they will come up with some explanation why Starfleet has stopped using it but at this point it will be explaining like why no one can use warp drive or transporters anymore. But if they end up a hundred years into the future with it, you won’t hear any complaints from me.

Danpaine

Right, ML31. Exactly. And as a result of this ‘failed’ secret technology, it would make sense by the time TOS came around that no one would know about Discovery or would have ever heard of it. Oh, for the chance to sit down with these writers for a while…

Marja

I’m thinking that the DASH drive becomes a classified project.

And like Tiger, I like the possibilities Disco’s DASH drive presents. Time travel [oh, that old thing] and travel throughout the universe along the mycelial network. I just think the concept is super cool.

David Ryan

I think you could easily show the Romulans stirring up tensions between the various Klingon houses. Wasn’t there already some sort of treaty between the Klingons and Romulans in this period? That might even explain how the Klingons got cloaking technology in the first place. As long as nobody from Starfleet encounters the Romulans.

Trek in a Cafe

I just want some STRANGE (NEW)

Isabella

The people who worked on the Klingons obviously put in a lot of work and deserve credit for their work.

But it is disappointing that they ended up with something which looks like a reject from the Lord of the rings, which is incapable of expressing emotion and sounds as if they are speaking with marables in their mouth.

HN4

Klingons should look like aliens, not guys in latex and bad wigs. If you want to see lame Klingons go to a comic con.

alphantrion

Way to go insulting the people who spend their times and sweat on making those “lame” Klingons, you are a real class act.

Isabella

What part of they put in a lot of effort and deserved credit for their work is an insult?

I complimented their effort and work, which was obviously a huge amount. I said that it was just a pity that the results were what they were.

It was not meant as an insult. If it was taken that way I apologize.

alphantrion

Sorry, I was replying to HN4 not you Isabella.

HN4
alphantrion

It doesn’t give you the right to make fun of anyone. You don’t have to like them, but don’t make fun of them.

HN4

I have all the rights.

Isabella

Spoken like a true troll.

Woah discovery’ Klingons are realistic????
Stop the presses.
When did we find out aliens existed and looked like orcs?
Did we also discover any aliens that looked like Goblins?

If so maybe next season can be about humans fighting an orc goblin alliance.

Tiger2

I do find it funny that people think these Klingons look more ‘alien’. They look DIFFERENT, sure, but they still look like people dressed in heavy prosthetic.

I guess they are trying to say it looks more exotic than the other Klingons but they are still human looking.

And yes they look more like orcs which is why I don’t really like the look of them but I am getting use to them. I just like how they looked in the TOS films/TNG era I guess but this is all subjective.

Marja

But Vulcans look like Tolkien elves, just with bowl haircuts

JAGT

If anything they look more rubbery now. They looke like guys wearing full masks instead of guys wearing partial prosthetics. What an evolution.

kmart

The old-age human makeups on TNG usually looked godawful bad, with this unnatural sheen, and that seemed to be the case no matter which DP they used. I thought it was weird that the aliens looked slightly more convincing than the humans, and couldn’t understand all the Westmore love, but these days, even though makeup appliances have evolved enormously, the cameras show every little detail, making the matter of artfully hiding the giveaways as tough as ever. I’d be as much in favor of an animatronic character as a man in suit, and favor both over the full CG characters, if we’re talking a regular (unless you can get CG to look Dobby-level good for every shot, which I very much doubt.) The Pilot character on FARSCAPE was tremendously convincing to me, enough so that it made me rethink animatronics in general. Ideally, you get 90% of the performance through puppeteering, then use CG for the other 10% (walking), sort of like how they’re doing stuff for THE HAPPYTIME MURDERS.

Marja

Dobby doesn’t look that good anymore. I can’t even believe I noticed it, because I usually don’t notice “how bad the CGI is” in Trek or whatever, but I noticed recently, when watching a clip from a Potter movie with Dobby, that he looked like a special-effects-enhanced puppet or animatronic.

kmart

I would figure that means he looks terrific, since animatronics have been phenomenal since around the time of FARSCAPE.

I'm Dead Jim

I think the Klingon actors did a fine job. Although speaking Klingon did slow down their delivery of lines, they were fine when speaking English. No marbles in any mouths. Mary Chieffo as L’Rell rises to the top of those performances. Shazad Latif’s performance as Voq also stood out to me, even though Voq came across as a hapless character. I read people making fun of his Klingon pronunciation while I appreciated his attention to detail in creating a regional Klingon dialect.

Now if you want to talk about Disco Klingon ships, that where I have the biggest problem.

AdAstraPerAspera

The “D7” looked like a Narn warship and the Bird Of Preys were impossible to discern, i will give you that!

PEB

L’Rell was pretty expressive. But to be fair, T’Kuvma was not. I see what you’re saying Isabella but it’s not 100% accurate.

Marja

The actors playing the Klingons do more stage-type acting than film acting; they have to.

I love how Latif changed where he spoke for Voq, going for a throatier sound, and Mary Chieffo is flippin amazing.

And I was the one who didn’t want to see Klingons! Disco changed my mind, because the Klingons and their inter-House politics became interesting.

ML31

“because the Klingons and their inter-House politics became interesting.”

I think it had massive potential to be interesting. If the show decided to focus on it a little more. Instead, we barely got a taste of it when they told us it would be deeply examined in the season…

alphantrion

Agreed, there were barely any Klingon politics involved, except for L’rell. This is because they only had 15 episodes, but really even in the final episodes when they went to the Klingon homeworld there was very little Klingon politics involved. They got rid of T’kuvma in the pilot, and we barely saw any Klingons after that. I think it might have been better if they kept T’kuvma around more, he could have been the Gul Dukat of Discovery. I also had high expectations for Kol, but he went out like a punk.

PEB

I will never ever understand Start Trek fans, who are the most science-minded of the fandoms, losing their minds over the idea that an entire species should have different looks due to genetics and evolution simply because that’s how makeup has been in the past. I just can’t wrap my mind around that disconnect. If anything, we should be saying “finally, they’re correcting it.” Instead if you ever see a familiar looking Klingon you’ll instead shout “at least we know there’s one real Klingon on the show.” I was having a TNG marathon over the weekend and couldn’t help but notice how very human the aliens look. This, to me at least, feels more Star Trek.

HN4

@PEB This is why I love Star Trek but hate most Star Trek fans. I would never want to be stuck in the same room with them.

And you’re right, the aliens in TNG era Trek just look ridiculous today. All I see when I look at Worf is Michael Dorn in makeup.

Eric Cheung

Exactly. Even in the 1980s, they kept on correcting to make it more alien. TMP Klingons looked different from TSFS Klingons, which looked different from TUC Klingons, which looked different from the Klingons of the Berman-era. Westmore’s take was definitely to give them a more alien nose than they ever had before and to have ridges tailored to the bloodline of specific houses. Discovery does something similar, in that the wardrobe and skin color differs by house. I’m glad to see much more diversity among Klingons, and for alien makeup to be rooted in at least some kind of biological thought process.

ML31

Except… While they did change some things after TMP the overall look and feel STILL said Klingon to the casual viewers. How many people noticed Worf’s ridge changes in TNG? They changed but guess what? He still LOOKED like and was easily identified as a Klingon! Trek fans watch STD and wouldn’t know those people in the first episodes were Klingons if they weren’t told they were based on the subtitles. That, IMHO, is a problem.

Marja

Yeah, Eric, I like that they look to biological reasons for alien appearances too. I liked what the one artist had to say about the Borg, too: is some of the tissue necrotic? Is that why the tubes are running in and out, to keep the flesh alive? It may be somewhat unscientific to think that, IDRK, but there’s a “world-building” aspect to their thinking that I really like, and the aspects of the different Klingon houses.

AdAstraPerAspera

I take comfort in the fact that kind of nasty Discovery bashers who troll endlessly on here would NEVER have the nerve to say this to anybody’s face who works on the show at a convention or on the street.

Just take solace in the fact that their trolling comes from their own insecurity, as all trolling does.

Tiger2

Some people may be trolling, but most here are just having an honest debate.

And I’m guessing people say MOST things on the internet they never would in real life lol. But thats why I always keep to my rule on the internet and that is I talk and say things as I would in real life. Its why I don’t insult the people who produce and write this stuff because as you said I would never say that to them in their face…nor want to. But same time I would have NO problems telling them where I think they are screwing up.

Unless I’m hopped up on ambien or something then all bets are off. ;)

kmart

Ambien would say, ‘taking our product does not cause you to tell a convention full of trekkies to move out of their parents basements, try kissing a girl and getting a life.’ No tears for Shatner on that one, except tears of laughter.

ML31

I would tell them my opinion. No problem. I’d use tact, of course, but I’d tell them I thought their creative choices did not seem to respect the source material.

HN4

True Dat

albatrosity

The only downside I can possibly think of to upgrading the Klingons is that when showed my dad the first episodes in November and then we finished out the first half of the season in December, when he saw L’Rell in December he was like, “What species is she?” and I had to tell him, and he was like, “Really? She doesn’t look like a Klingon,” despite having watched the first episodes a month earlier. So like either his memory is bad or some old folks really do have a tough time with this visual reboot. Either way, once you just accept it for what it is, the issue vanishes

ML31

I disagree, Albatrosity. It will always be an issue to some extent. If the show were better it would be less of an issue for sure. But still an issue. The show was not very good at all so it has become a much bigger issue for many because they were not distracted by a quality production.

Danpaine

This^

AdAstraPerAspera

It will always be an issue foe YOU, not for everyone else.

ML31

And you, AdAstraPerAspera, speak for “everyone”.

Gotcha.

Curious Cadet

Either way, once you just accept it for what it is, the issue vanishes
–albatrosity

Agreed. Trek fans will know about it going into it, and new viewers will merely accept it.

ML31

Only if the production it is is is actually good. If it’s good, viewers (fans included) tend to ignore it. (WOK is the perfect example, great film, filled with inconsistencies) If the work is bad, everyone complains about the issues. Notice please that those downplaying said issues are those who are satisfied or more than satisfied with STD as a quality production. Those complaining about said issues are ones who feel the show was sub par to bad.

albatrosity

I do agree that the acceptability of their creative decisions largely comes down to the success of the overall narrative that they’re telling, and Disco sadly was not that strong, season one, whereas WOK was a home run. I’m curious though to hear what you consider inconsistencies in that movie, like retcons from TOS?

ML31

Just off the top of my head… It seems odd to me that no one would be aware that an entire planet exploded and no one cared to the point where a science vessel went there to check and see if they could conduct their super secret experiments. If you buy the fan theories on why Khan and Checkov recognized each other, (I personally do not) then why would Chekov not realize the situation in the Ceti-Alpha system. “Keptian, I recall I was on the Enterprise and I recall something about leaving some exiled war criminal in that system… We better check with Starfleet about what’s going on. Especially since the computers say there should be one more planet in the system than there seem to be now.” And how about Scotty taking his injured crewman to the BRIDGE instead of sickbay? (Yes, I know that was supposed to be his nephew but those scenes were cut and it still doesn’t made sense.) And yes, much of these are done for dramatic effect or as ways to push the story forward. There are more but those are the biggest ones. And remember, WOK was still in my opinion the very best movie of all of them. It was damn good. Even with these holes.

bad kitty no milk tonight

They are not going to be happy until they have destroyed every aspect of classic Star Trek

HN4

I’ll be happy. Change is good.

Kevin H.

So they again want to steal from Geiger and now steampunk. Well since the Klingons look like part Enemy Mine and a purple dildo… What could go wrong this time.

kmart

They talked to Geiger for FC but he was too pricey, so it is just coming back full circle.

JAGT

It’s Giger, not Geiger.

kmart

Hey, at least it wasn’t spelled kahn.

El Chup

Look, one major thing these guys could do to get me onside is show a few of their Klingons with hair and beards. Why? Because it would be a gesture to those of us who don’t care for a year of lies about canon that they have listened and can offer an olive branch.

Oh, and NO BLOODY BORG!!!

ML31

They did bring up something I thought about often when watching TNG but never really let it bother me but since the make up guys echoed it… TNG was some 70 years AFTER the TOS features. Why would the Klingons STILL be wearing the exact same style after all that time? I guess it’s possible they decided it works so they stuck with it. But the StarFleet uniform evolved some. It never felt reasonable that the Klingon clothing never changed. But I really chalked that up to a syndicated TV budget cannibalizing costumes from the existing movies to save money. Just like TNG used starship models from the features to save money. Even though it makes no sense Starfleet would be using 80 year old star ships.

Regarding this… “It has to look like a Borg. That was established. There was a particular aesthetic choice that was made …”

It made me wonder… Why did they not respect the look that was already established with the Klingons? They would respect the Borg aesthetic but not the Klingons? They didn’t respect the existing aesthetic anywhere else in season one either. Why start with the Borg if they had the chance? (Which I really hope they don’t)

Tiger2

Actually I found it funny that Starfleet was still wearing the TOS film uniforms in Picards time lol. Clearly Starfleet FINALLY changed uniforms in the 24th century but they were still wearing them decades later after Kirk and crew retired, which I estimate is around 60 years from when they first showed up on TWOK.

Which is more crazy considering just how often Starfleet was changing uniforms just between TNG through Voyager’s period. It was the same variation but they were constantly changing them.

But yes as you said its just TV budgets trying to save money so you go with it. And it never bothered me personally.

ML31

The uniforms were similar. But not the same. One could see how they could have evolved from the Kirk movies to the TNG time. Yet Klingons stayed the same. Obviously we were going to see the Enterprise crew on a regular basis so it made sense more effort went into those.

Jack

They were the same uniforms with different undershirts.

ML31

No… They were quite different. TNG did not wear overcoats. The shirts under the jackets looked nothing like what the TNG folks wore except for the major use of red. Were we watching two different shows?

albatrosity

Does it make no sense that Starfleet uses 80 year old starships? We still use 80 year old buildings and a starship is like the size of like 20 city blocks and even a Constitution class probably has the internal area of like 50 skyscrapers considering the saucer alone is a massive plate several stories high. It’s actually hilarious to think a ship of that size has a mere 400 crew. Aircraft carriers are crewed by thousands and are many times smaller. So like, if you’re gonna build a gigantic piece of space infrastructure, a starship, which is basically a mobile floating city, I would think it would be around for a while. The US Navy today still maintains ships 70+ years old. Unless a Wolf 359 situation happens, there’s no reason for Starfleet to be replacing ships every few decades. Upgrades, obviously.

HN4

Starfleet treats ships like Iphones.

albatrosity

But does it make *sense*

albatrosity

Also no they don’t hence why the Miranda class is still in operation a hundred years after Khan. Starships aren’t on the two-year upgrade cycle.

HN4

I was joking…………

Tiger2

Yeah I always thought Starships were built to last, especially the ships that goes on deep space assignments like a lot of the Enterprise ships did.

Maybe 80+ years isn’t that common but I suspect most ships get lots of refurb when they past a certain date as we saw the original 1701 ship got in TMP. I could see 50 years being the average life span a ship could last.

ML31

Ships get upgraded. But eventually they get retired. According to wikipedia (not my favorite source but for this it’s probably good) the oldest active naval vessel (not counting the Constitution for obvious reasons) has been active for 48 years. The oldest active aircraft carrier is 43 years old. Only some 20% of the US naval vessels are more than 28 years old. The admiral in TSFS told Kirk the Enterprise was 20 years old and her day was over. (never mind that she was at least 30 years if you count the Pike years but the point still works even if you include that). Realistically they would not be using 80 year old ships. But they appear because of budgetary restrictions for a TV show.

albatrosity

I don’t think you can make the claim that it’s “unrealistic” to have 80 year old starships in service. I understand the USN has nearly 50-year-old ships, but can we really compare earthbound naval vessels with massive spacefaring starships? Even an aircraft carrier costs only a handful of billions of dollars, and they have operational lifespans of 50 years. But a starship? You really think Starfleet would sink potentially trillions of dollars’ worth of capital into a vessel that they plan to toss out after a few decades? I’m not buying it.

ML31

I would totally buy it. Just advancements in tech and material alone would render even refitting a sufficiently old ship obsolete. But I would classify this as nit picking. You can buy starfleet using 80-120 year old ships. I just chalk it up to TV budgets can’t afford new models. In the end, we still have century old ships on screen.

albatrosity

I’ll meet you in the middle: I would buy it in an arms race scenario :)

Spock Jenkins

The Breen underneath their armour should look like…Carrie Fisher!

Russell Meyers

Lol that was my first thought…

I'm Dead Jim

Oh! Lol! I get it now. Had to think a bit.

Marja

Good one, and I had to think too. I KNEW the Breen reminded me of something I’d seen before! Kudos, Spock Jenkins!

I'm Dead Jim

They could use the CG from Rogue One.

alphantrion

You know this can be the unintentional Star Trek/Star Wars crossover if we consider that Leia was actually disguised as a Breen. Perhaps the Breen have found a way to crossover universes and that is why no one knows what they look like in Star Trek.

kmart

alpha,
That is SO rich, maybe they have a s’more drive instead of a spore drive. Maybe all the Breen look like May Rebo from Jabba’s band, and Breen are just blue elephants who’ve learned to keep they’re trunks from bouncing around when they move.

alphantrion

This can go on forever :)) not that Disney would ever consider doing a true Trek/Wars crossover.

Matt

We did some pretty fun tests with Saru’s head as CG with this prior to them changing the design of the character. Our guys did a great job matching Doug’s performance and it was trippy to watch all those eyes blink.

Russell Meyers

Hope some of that video makes the light of day, would love to see it!

Matt

I do too! Hopefully if there is a Blu-ray/DVD release of the season, they’ll include it in the extras. We also did a test of the tardigrade crew member prior to that change that I hope makes the extras at some point.

Tiger2

Man that Saru is spooky lol. We would’ve got use to it but I’m kind of glad they went a different way.

I'm Dead Jim

He’d definitely be bumping into door frames!

albatrosity

I remember BTS comments about how the alien character would be played with a rig for CG effects, and then when I saw Saru I was like really, that’s it? But I like the way he is, I think that was a good move. No need to eat up the budget on CG characters.

Matt

We definitely had the guys that could have done it and they would have done it well, but when I think of all the work that would have had to go into it from how they would have had to shoot for it on set, the amount of time needed to animate the CG, and then for compositors to roto actors passing over him, it would have been a lot of work involved for one character.

I personally like where the character ended up. The makeup is interesting and Doug’s performance has really made Saru a compelling character. It’s nice to see the writers recognize that early on and write the character accordingly.

blculbre

I am going with the Romulans, for the canon aliens getting a revisit. I have considered for quite some time that Season 2 (and beyond) could explore the intrigue of the Klingon – Romulan alliance and technology transfer and attempts by the Romulans to destablize the Federation, and to be a foil for Section 31. Or…the Tholians.

CAPT.MC

they have already destroyed startrek. if they bring the borg in to the 23 century I am done discovery.they are not very creative using the same charters same storyline changing the way aliens and ships look. they paramount and cbs have destroyed startrek. with the reboot which most fans don’t like because its not the prime universe and discovery which look nothing like startrek but a nother scifi show. give us real statrek not some thing with just the name.

HN4

I can’t wait for the Borg. I love Star Trek.

AdAstraPerAspera

Um…. they have literally only used Sarek and Amanda. And TNG, DS9 and VOY all reused characters at some point or another. Its one thing that franchises do.

Also its plainly NOT true that “most” fans dont like Star Trek. You cannot speak for others.

CAPT.MC

and one more thing get these fake fans off of here who says its just another tv show. I am 46 years old I have being watching this show since I was 5 years old it not just another tv show for me.they have change the look it has the name startrek but it is not startrek.

Warning for trolling. No one is the arbiter of who is a real fan.

Thread closed

northstar

The BORG? In a TOS timeline… right… Please don´t do it!!!!!!! How about trying something NEW instead? You know, boldly going and all this stuff….
And please no more Klingons for a while – we had to endure a whole season of these “new” Klingons.

Curious Cadet

@northstar — why not? They already had the Borg in the ENT timeline. THere’s plenty of ways they could put the Borg in DISC. As long as they aren’t a recurring villain it’s fine. A little nostalgia goes a long way to make the fans happy.

Tiger2

I agree! I don’t think anyone is suggesting the Borg became recurring villains like they were on Voyager but I don’t see anything wrong with putting them in an episode or two IF they can find a creative way to do it.

The thing about the Borg is whenever there is talk about them being used it gets instant headlines everywhere. I don’t think any Trek villain ever gets fans excited like they do the Borg. And its clear every Trek production wants to use them for a reason. They haven’t been discussed for the Kelvin films yet but I say give it time. ;)

DaveCGN

V’ger is still somewhere in the kelvin-timeline and also the planet-killer which was created as a weapon against the borg in the novel “Vendetta” by Peter David (and, by the way he created a character like Seven OF Nine years before VOY!)

ML31

The thing about using the Borg on STD… They only have a finite number of episodes now. A Borg episode would feel like one of those dreaded “filler” episodes. Unless the Borg are a part of their story arc it would be difficult to shoehorn them in a short season. Not saying it couldn’t be done somehow… But the show’s current writers do not seem to be up to the task.

CAPT.MC

i agree with northstar give us something new. not the same aliens same story lines.

Soren

Leave the Breen as they are. Audiences don’t always have to be shown everything. As far as I can remember they’re the only aliens who are presented in this way. It’d be more fun to maintain that uniqueness about them.

If no one has seen the Breen in DS9, no one can see the Breen in Discovery.

If we haven’t encountered the Borg in TOS time, we can’t encounter the Borg in TOS time.

Just set a show in the bloody future of the franchise if you want to play around with these themes!

Gonzo

Yep! And they just happen to have a ship that can time travel.

Marja

Gonzo,
=^D

Mirror Galt

Between Enterprise and Discovery, many of the TOS gimmicks are being used up, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see beaten-into-the-ground Borg! or Brent Spiner! to prop up viewership for the current dumpster inferno. But if Disco wants to be so woke, they really should bring back the Cheronians plus a special appearance by Abraham Lincoln. Or, ultimate twist: Discovery was really all an aborted story thrown in the trash by… Benny Russell! Thereby paving the way for Nick Meyer’s “Ceti Alpha V Nights”…

Acolyte Of Glorious La Parka~

I really wish they had gone with THAT Saru design.

I would have kept my eyes on that.

HN4

It looks like a good alien of the week design. It’s not something that I would want to look at week after week. It might also give kids nightmares.

Just think of all the parents that would have to look under their childs beds each night to check if Saru was hiding under there.

Marja

Mommy, Daddy, the eyes, the eyes are watching me

Marja

LOL, Acolyte

alphantrion

So if they had used that design, would the eyes be the edible part of the Kelpian anatomy? or would they still have a threat ganglia?

Luke

Too bad the Federation hadn’t encountered the Borg yet, Enterprise found that smart work around, by having that link to First Contact and the Borg never actually identified themselves, that episode was actually a cool way to bring the Borg arc full circle.

Too bad they didn’t set this show sometime after Nemesis, they’d have all the creative freedom they seem to want.

Danpaine

“Too bad they didn’t set this show sometime after Nemesis, they’d have all the creative freedom they seem to want.”

Exactly, Luke.

DaveCGN

Well… almost. The questions is: what happens with the prime timeline after Nemesis and the events of Star Trek 2009 which took place in the prime timeline? Romulus destroyed, Nero and Spock disappearing in the wormhole – the Kelvin timeline overwrites the prime timeline and becomes an new one, but shouldn’t the old prime timeline at the moment of the disappearance of Nero in the wormhole cease to exist? (Unless it is restored?) Just like it happened in Yesterday’s Enterprise?

Marja

Dave,
I think the folk of TrekMovie threads have had this argument time and time again, you should pardon the pun.

My understanding was that the AU is one of the multiple universes in existence. Kelvin and Narada went thru that wormhole Spock’s red matter caused, and ….

I’m getting a headache

HN4

Nemesis sucked.

DaveCGN

An awesome canon alien? I would expect an alien from TOS. After reading only the headline the first alien which came in my mind was a Gorn. But how about a horta? :-D
The borg don’t fit into the TOS-timeline, but there might be small connection. Unofficially, of course: the fan-theories that V’Ger and the borg are somehow related are well-known (and part of the shatner-verse in his novels). V’Ger was modified and send back by the machine-planet, which might be the origin of the borg.
Discovery could somehow discover (lol) this machine-planet and encounter ancestors of the borg.

Phil

Multiple eyed Kelpian stuck in the birth canal would be an …….irritation.

Marian Ciobanu

If it ain’t broken don’t fix it.The prevoius versions of the aliens are looking better than the ones from DSC. where the Klingons are speaking like the Ferengi and the Andorians are speaking like Worf.

HN4

It was broken and Discovery Fixed it.

AdAstraPerAspera

I think that the TNG remaster did little good for the makeup of alien characters.

Marja

I have to say, it sounds like the same guy playing all the Andorians with the woofy voice. Not Worf-y, woof-y.

IDICalways

Is it just me or does the Klingon on the far left seem like he has hair? The image is too dark to be sure, but he looks like he has hair around his head and cascading down his shoulders. Here’s to hoping they close that gap by having some Klingons hairy.
And the one on the far right is wearing armour that is very reminiscent of the Klingon armour in the movies, all through TNG, DS9, and VOY

Soren

Version one of Saru looked like a spider. Like it or not a lot of humans have a hard wired fear and revulsion of bugs. It was wise that they dropped it.

DaveCGN

…and yet it could have been a very trek-like story if they had used that and adressed that topic.

J.S.

Thank science that version of Saru was dropped. It’s hideous. I hate the more-than-two-eyes paradigm, I’m genuinely repulsed by stuff like this.

Curious Cadet

@J.S. — I actually wonder what they were thinking in designing such a creature? There are few examples of evolution on Earth where a creature has more than two eyes, much less sentient ones. And while I can see a benefit of having maybe 4 eyes — two in front, and two in back, for a 360 degree field of vision, one has to wonder how effective that would be in processing all that information, when tasked with focusing one’s attention on something. Not that it couldn’t be done, but I have to imagine that many eyes would require the brain to do nothing but process vision.

Now maybe specialty eyes that otherwise remain closed when not in use — like a microscopic eye, a magnification eye with greater distance, an eye that sees different light spectrums, or just redundancy due to the potential to lose an eye in the native environment, and so forth. Even then, this design has a lot of OPEN eyeballs — and we haven’t even see the back of it.

It does give us some insight into what they wanted for this character — one that is otherwise prey in its native habitat. All those eyeballs certainly must have been used for always being on guard, even while sleeping. Having a gland that senses danger is much more effective way to accomplish this!

Jonathan

I want to see some Caitians from the Animated Series.

AKAATA

I can’t stand all this hate for the show. Don’t watch it if you don’t like it. It’s that simple. Going to a comments section for a production you can’t stand is like being an atheist that voluntarily walks into a church service just to get a bite of that cracker and little pinch of wine. This new TREK is awesome. So awesome. I’m excited to dig into every episode to see all the little details. I don’t understand the wants of the haters. They want to sit and watch the same episodes forever? The same aesthetics on a never ending loop? Did these same people freak when TNG first aired, constantly complaining that it was a horrible version and not at all like TOS was? Bringing your complaints and anger to a article talk back is illogical