Year For Setting Of Star Trek Picard Show Established, Storyline Teased By EP

All Good Things - TNG finale

Last month it was officially announced that the next Trek series will feature Sir Patrick Stewart returning to his Star Trek: The Next Generation role of Jean-Luc Picard. There is little known about the show and it doesn’t even have a name, but we now have a couple of more details on the Picard series, thanks to one of the executive producers.

Space 2399

One of the executive producers for the new Picard series is Pulitzer Prize-winning author Michael Chabon, who has been sharing some of the goings-on from the recently formed writers’ room, as we reported last week when he revealed his galactic map briefing. This week Chabon has again used his Instagram account to reveal more about the show, including the year for the show’s setting.

Regarding the time setting of the show, Chabon’s Instagram post states: “So we finished our first amazing two weeks in the #space2999 writers’ room, and I think all you 99ers out there are really going to “grok” what we have planned.”

Chabon also used an image from the ’70s sci-fi series Space: 1999 to send out his message about the “99” setting of the show.

“Space 2999” seems to be an inside joke and mashup of Space: 1999 and the actual year the show is set, which appears to be 2399. The last time we saw Picard was in the 2002 film Star Trek: Nemesis, which takes place in the year 2379. At Star Trek Las Vegas, Patrick Stewart said of the setting: “Twenty years will have passed, which is more or less exactly the time between the very last movie – Nemesis – and today.” It appears that Stewart was being specific and that the show will take place exactly 20 years later, or 2399.

Picard faces off against his clone in 2379, in Star Trek: Nemesis

The end of an era and the dawn of the 25th century

2399 puts the new Picard show at the end of the 24th century, which is somewhat poetic as it will bring to an end the century which was the setting for Star Trek: The Next Generation and the two subsequent series, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek: Voyager. Through 21 seasons those three series thoroughly covered the period between 2364 and 2378, with Nemesis taking place one year after the Voyager finale. It also brings up the possibility that the show will be a bridge into the 25th century of Star Trek’s future history.

USS Enterprise-E in 2379, as seen at the end of Star Trek: Nemesis

The only known events set out in canon for the post-Nemesis 24th century comes from the 2009 Star Trek movie. J.J. Abrams first Trek film established that in 2387 a supernova which threatened the galaxy exploded, destroying the planet Romulus. Spock was able to prevent the supernova from destroying the rest of the galaxy but he and his ship were drawn back in time, along with a very angry crew of Romulan miners, to kick off the new Kelvin timeline in the 23rd century.

Romulus destroyed in 2387, from Star Trek

If we want to look to the extended universe, The Star Trek: Countdown comic book series that tied into the 2009 Star Trek movie established Jean-Luc Picard as the Ambassador to Vulcan in 2387, with a resurrected Data as captain of the USS Enterprise-E. While comics are not officially canon, it is worth noting the Countdown series was developed by Star Trek screenwriters Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci as a way to tie their film into Star Trek: The Next Generation, and of course Kurtzman is an executive producer on the Picard show.

Ambassador Picard speaking to Ambassador Spock in 2387, from Star Trek: Countdown

There are also numerous books and the Star Trek Online MMORPG which have told the stories of many events in the late 24th century, however, these are also not part of Trek canon and even less likely to be adhered to for the Picard show. That being said, Kirsten Beyer is also on the creative team for the Picard show and before joining Star Trek: Discovery as a writer, she wrote a number of Star Trek novels, including a number set after Nemesis.

USS Enterprise-F launched in 2410 according to Star Trek Online game

Star Trek has shown a number of alternative futures, like Voyager’s “Timeless” with an embittered Harry Kim being chased by a Captain Geordi LaForge in a 2390 where the USS Voyager had crashed, killing most of the crew,  We also saw a version of Picard in the mid 2390’s in the Next Generation finale “All Good Things,” where he is retired to his family vineyard in a Federation where relations with the Klingons have become hostile. While these alternative late 24th century moments are not canon due to changes in the timelines created in those episodes, one thing that is consistent is that the Federation and Starfleet endures.

Captain Geordi LaForge in alternative 2390, from Star Trek: Voyager

In fact, thanks to Star Trek’s penchant for time travel episodes, we know to expect that the Federation exists in some form in 2399. The Temporal Cold War arc in Star Trek: Enterprise established that the Federation survived and had grown by the 26th century, and would even include Klingons as Federation citizens. The long history of ships named Enterprise also continues in the mid-26th century with the Enterprise-J. And Star Trek: Voyager and Enterprise established that the Federation continued to exist even in the 29th and 31st centuries.

USS Enterprise-J participated in the Battle of Battle of Procyon V in 2554, rendering by Doug Drexler

Metamorphs?

The other thing Chabon said in his Instagram post was possibly more intriguing, with:

“I think all you 99ers out there are really going to “grok” what we have planned. (Hint: Metamorphs! But you didn’t hear it from me.)”

Assuming it isn’t a red herring, what could his hint about Metamorphs mean? Strictly speaking, a metamorph is defined as any organism “that has undergone metamorphosis,” such as how a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly. In the world of science fiction and Star Trek, we have seen many different kinds of sentient metamorphs that can transform themselves.

Captain Kirk faces Martia, a shapeshifting Chameloid from Star Trek VI

If you were thinking this might have something to do with the Dominion and the Great Link and Deep Space Nine shapeshifters, Chabon has seemingly already shut that down. A fan asked if his hint had anything to do with Odo and the writer replied “nope” in the comments on his Instagram post.

Another potentially more intriguing possibility would be the character Kamala, played by actress Famke Janssen in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode “The Perfect Mate.” The character was Kriosian, and was described as an “empathic metamorph” who could transform her persona to adapt to any possible partner. In the episode she is set to marry a politician to help foster peace but ends up falling in love with Captain Picard.

Jean-Luc Picard with Kamala, an empathic metamorph, in Star Trek: The Next Generation

Returning to Chabon’s Space:1999 reference, the word metamorph also has a meaning in the 1999 universe. The character Maya was a metamorph added to the main cast in season two. She had the ability to transform into anything organic for an hour. The concept of a metamorph in Space:1999 is closer to that of a Changeling in the Trek universe.

Maya, a metamorph from Space: 1999

Geeking out with Chabon

For now, there is no way to know for sure what Chabon is hinting at, but we are totally intrigued, which is the point of these kinds of teases. And we didn’t even get into Chabon’s use of the word “grok,” a term coined by legendary science-fiction author Robert. A. Heinlein in his classic Stranger in a Strange Land. Meaning “to understand” in the deepest possible way, Chabon could be hinting some connection to Heinlein, or just showing off his deep geek cred.

And if you want any more proof that Chabon is one of us, check out some of this other nerdy posts over the last week.

View this post on Instagram

We start them young. #tbt

A post shared by Michael Chabon (@michael.chabon) on

View this post on Instagram

#goals

A post shared by Michael Chabon (@michael.chabon) on

It is also good to know that the Picard show writers’ room has already been at it for a couple of weeks, which means putting together the first scripts may not be too far into the future. It is not unreasonable to think this show could go into production in early 2019, after Star Trek: Discovery wraps shooting on its second season later this year.


Keep up with all the news on the Picard show and other upcoming Star Trek TV shows here at TrekMovie.com.

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BorgKlingon

The Metamorphs thing sounds a little lame to me…just saying

farbeyondthestars

complaining already? wow…

BorgKlingon

OMG, dare I comment on the “Metaomorhps” comment here and I get grilled for not saying 100% positive stuff on the new Picard series.

Let me be clear — I am looking very much forward to the Picard series. Nevertheless, my opinion on this “Metaphorphs thing” is that is sounds lame

This is my opinion, so DEAL WITH IT.

Windchill

Kinda hypocritical to demean others’ opinions while saying they should respect your opinion. Your comments are clearly the most exaggerated in this thread.

Or to borrow your words: The replies to your opinions are also opinions… DEAL WITH IT.

BorgKlingon

@Windchill

Now that’s a great demonstration of a demeaning personal attack. Well done!

Phil

An actual Star Trek production beginning next year, I’d think you’d be thrilled…

eric

TNG is just as much a trek production as TNG. Although i prefer to forget about TNG.

Darth_Meow_504

Zathras tried to warn Zathras, but Zathras didn’t listen to Zathras. Nobody ever listens to Zathras.

Fred Javelina

“ZOG.”

CaptainSheridan

Zathras likes this comment!

I Khan Believe it's Not Butter

Purple

Green

Purple

Green

Those damn Drazi

Mark

LoL. Just watched that episode a couple days agod

BorgKlingon

WHEN DID I SAY I WAS NOT THRILLED WITH THIS PRODUCTION???

Jesus fracking Christ. I just said the “Metaphorohs thing” just sounds lame — and you know, it does sound at the surface kind of lame. It is what it is.

If they had said ‘Galactic Center” or “Andromeda Galaxy,” that would have gotten a better initial response out of me. Metammorphs…meh, that has been so overdone in both Trek and sf in general.

Disinvited

BorgKlingon,

Several times you have declared what would make other posters disquieted based on far far less, as in 0 posts from the targets of that trolling on the article at hand, when you posted such.

In fact, I recall your last target, Phil replying with a query very similar to the one you saw fit to shout out.

I think you should just grin and bear this as simply a case of being hoisted by your own Picard [sic]. ;-)

BorgKlingon

@Disinvited

Right on schedule…what a surprise…NOT…lol

PS: Is CC going to drop by now? ;-)

BorgKlingon.

You have been warned before. You seem to be here to pick fights. That is not what we are about. Calm down and stop bickering, or you will have to go.

SUPER FINAL PRE-PERMABAN WARNING

I Khan Believe it's Not Butter

Ever stop to think that maybe he’s was simply speaking metaphorically about Metaphorohs?

But clearly what’s going to happen is Picard finds himself on the Moon when it suddenly gets blasted out of Earth orbit into the unknown.
All starships and transporters are rendered inoperable by the blast and there’s no way to reach the Mooninites before it vanishes into a space anomaly never to be seen again.
And so our story begins…

BorgKlingon

Ah, so he’s speaking “metaphormorphicly” then. I see. (-;

Vice Admiral Nakamura

There isn’t enough information to make any judgement whatsoever as to the “metamorphs.” Just saying.

BorgKlingon

I said “this sounds kind of lame” — and it does sound lame. I did not say the execution will be lame, so I am not making ANY JUDGEMENT at this point.

That is literally not true.

AdAstraPerAspera

Saying something is lame is making a judgement. As for people critising you for making a judgement about something you have no idea about…. are you surprised? I would have thought you’d be familiar with this site by now.

BorgKlingon

Wrong! I said “it sounds kind of lame,” not that it “is lame.” Huge difference! Please stop distorting what I said.

And, oh by the way, with that misrepresentation, everything else you said in your post after that completely false first sentence is now rendered moot and DOA.

And yes, the Metamorphs thing sounds kind of lame to me.

c d

This having anything even remotely to do with Space: 1999 will be lame.

DPrescott

Blimey, and I thought I was one of the most critical critics of the new Trek. I doff my cap to thee, Borg Klingon.. Welcome to the dark side.. lol

BorgKlingon

@DPrescott

Dark side, are you kidding me???

I don’t really have a clue as to why several of you are freaking out here about me saying the metaphors thing sounds kind of lame?

Let me repeat myself one more time. I am extremely excited about the Picard series and have high hopes for it. I will be paying for CBS AA, will watch the entire series, and will also buy it on Blu-ray later.

Nevertheless, hearing this one minor bit about “Metamorphs,” well to me it just sounds a bit lame and anti-climactic. That’s been so overdone in both Trek and other science fiction that I’m slightly disappointed that is this “big reveal” about the new series. However I was skeptical about having the Mirror Universe in DSC, but that worked out pretty well,so who knows?

But yes, my first reaction to this metamophs thing is that it sounds kind of lame.

I think what’s happening here is a lot of you are super excited about this show, and I’m kind of saying what you’re all worried about in hearing the Metamorphs thing – Maybe you all should just admit that you were slightly disappointed in hearing this as well

Goodbye

Tiger2

OMG, Star Trek is heading into the 25th century!!! This is SO cool! Someone mentioned this to me before the could be taking place then. Now it looks like it’s almost true. The Picard show could be setting up this year as a symbolic end to the 24th century and setting up a new era of the 25th! It could just go one season and a new show or a spin off comes later seeing where the Federation is in the 25th century!

Wow that would mean Star Trek will have covered four centuries beginning with the 22nd. It’s just wonderful to see Trek FINALLY expanding into a post-Nemesis era! This is going to really give Trek the push the fanbase has been dying to see for over a decade now.

We got it! Thankfully we finally got it! ;)

DeanH

Yeah I have to admit going forward is great news. Good news for the writers too since they won’t be saddled with the confines and concerns of those who are very focused on canon. Hopefully we will see all kinds of strange all-new worlds and all-new civilizations.

Tiger2

While the Discovery writers will never directly say it, I think it DOES bother them that they are so boxed in by canon, both by Enterprise and TOS. No Star Trek show before ever had to worry about what came before and after like Discovery does now. They can’t just write in whatever they want. Everything has to be considered to a ridiculous level before any major changes.

Although there are some benefits too like using TOS characters since canon has been pretty vague about what most of them was up to in this period and why Pike will conveniently be in every episode next season. ;)

But the opportunity for this show it is wide open. The only real issue is Romulus frankly since you can’t just put a planet back together lol. But they can still choose to avoid the situation in general if they want.

And I think we will get more exploration in this show than Discovery, at least compared to its first season. It could be a more political show like DS9 was but I have a feeling they will make it a priority to have exploration as part of the show.

Michael Hall

Art tends to thrive on restrictions. If the DSC writers don’t make the most of the era they`ve been handed that’s entirely on them.

Tiger2

I think they are doing an OK job with it. I think next season is going to tell us if it was a good idea to place the show in this era or not because the reality is it was really only there because that’s what Fuller wanted, but then left before his idea was fully realized. So even though I complain a lot about how the show has been executed so far I also know their hands were tied in a lot of ways by both Fuller’s direction and probably the network in general.

Hopefully next season they had their own freedom to do what they wanted and it looks like they been given permission to make it look more like TOS as well. Of course I don’t forget the irony the show runners responsible for this season was ALSO fired lol but I’m guessing Kurtzman had more involvement this season than last. Not everyone exactly loves that idea as well but we’ll see!

Marja

Agreed Michael. However if it does prove too restrictive, I like to remember that Discovery can travel through time.

Tiger2

Which is why fans like me LOVE the spore drive. ;)

I hope they never get rid of it and can use it for a ‘get out of the 23rd century free’ card if it ever came to that.

Danpaine

Me too, and I like it for that reason only.

STDisNotTrek

Spore drive is lame, and glad they got rid of it, if they were following canon (as they said) spore drive never got popular. I mean imagine Voyager 1st episode “Captain, we are 70 years from the federation. That’s okay Mr. Kim, engage the spore drive. The end.

Tiger2

They haven’t gotten rid of the spore drive. THey confirmed it will be in season 2 as well. In fact my guess that’s why Pike takes over the ship, because of the drive but yes just a guess.

ML31

Personally, I don’t mind the spore drive per se… It’s just that if they adhere to canon (and they have picked and chosen what bits of canon they wish to adhere to) then we know it won’t work long term. As a narrative tool, the spore drive really works against the show. It’s like time travel. It’s the easy way out of EVERY situation. The only way it works is to be find ways to put SEVERE restrictions on its use. Like, we can only use it once every 72 hours or the mycelial network unravels or some other technobabble reason.

The River Temarc

In “What’s Past is Prologue,” when they left the Mirrorverse and announced they had travelled ahead in time, my first thought was that they were moving the show to a post 24-century setting, so as to explain the lack of spore drives in TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY.

ML31

Which is why I still think it an excellent idea to have the ship get sent forward 120 years and then have the spore drive rendered unrepairable.

Levi 90028

Pretty sure they will be able to acknowledge The opening events of JJ Trek even if they can’t show them.
In any case at least Vulcan is back!!!

STDisNotTrek

How would you explain a planet coming back? Really?? Oh wait, Kelvin timeline or original? Boy this gets confusing by the minute

Argo

Can’t be boxed in when you ignore canon.

Tiger2

LOL, harsh!

STDisNotTrek

But wait… only in the Kelvin time line was Romulus destroyed, in the original timeline Romulus still exist… Please tell me they are not going to use the Kelvin timeline where Chris Pine and the J.J Trek rules

Fred Javelina

No, Romulus is destroyed in the 2387 of the Prime timeline. It’s the use of red matter by Spock to contain that “hyper-nova” that creates the wormhole that drags the Narada back to 2233, and the Jellyfish to 2258.

The Kelvin Timeline canon is that it’s a “many-worlds” branching alternate universe. After the Narada and Jellyfish left 2387, the Prime timeline continued in parallel with the Kelvin timeline.

Some events will likely recur in both timelines, which means in the future 2387 of the Kelvin universe, the Hobus star will still explode, but what would be interesting to see is if Old Spock / the Federation gave the Romulans their data on the event, to give them a 129-year head start on how to deal with evacuating / relocating.

And then, to see what impact that would have on galactic diplomacy and conflict. Just as dwindling resources cause conflicts, and natural disasters are displacing millions of people today, or (as in ST:TUC) the metaphor of Praxis for Chernobyl and the fall of the USSR.

The River Temarc

“No, Romulus is destroyed in the 2387 of the Prime timeline.”

*If* they choose to canonize the JJ films in the Prime Timeline. Personally, my preference would be to ignore them. (I mean “red matter”? Really? What’s next, magic blood?)

albatrosity

I think not canonizing Romulus’s destruction would be the ultimate triumph of this series. Really, there is no need to acknowledge the KT at all. It’s a totally separate thing by the writers’ own admission.

ML31

What’s next is vibranium. A magic element that can literally do ANYTHING.

Fred Javelina

I would love to ignore Star Trek V and Season 1 of TNG, but we can’t. ;) The studio made it, it’s on screen, it’s canon. The Countdown comics are arguably softer canon, but since they come from the same writer/producer and are tightly tied to the storyline, they are hard to ignore. Here’s the thing. Magic reset button storylines worked back in the heyday of syndicated TV series because you had no idea what order the episodes were going to air. But they’re really unsatisfying because 1) they’re a cheap trick and 2) there are rarely any lasting, meaningful consequences. With the exception of a few two-part episodes and arcs that refer back to prior events, TNG consciously avoided any events that would have permanent, lasting impact on the crew or ship, Tasha Yar’s death being one of the very few exceptions. Mostly the same with Voyager. But when we get to DS9, they threw those rules out. Long, linear arcs, internal references, very few ‘reset button’ episodes, and by the Dominion War permanent death / injury was more commonplace. When anyone could die, the stakes were raised. And TV has largely gone the route of the linear visual novel. BSG, Game of Thrones, Walking Dead, every SyFy original series these days, and of course, ST: Discovery, has a long-form storyline with permanent consequences (most of the time) for the characters. If they’d just done ‘Starfleet Academy Hijinks’, we’d just follow along with some filler plot, as everything slots… Read more »

albatrosity

Okay see this is where the time travel logic of the KT gets a little uncertain. Because as the writers themselves explained, it’s a “multiple universe” sort of theory — the KT movies exist in a timeline where the Narada and its crew, ostensibly but not necessarily from another universe and a later history, appear in 2233 in front of the Kelvin. That’s how they define it, as just another possible universe, which is why things that happen before the Narada incursion can still differ from the Prime Timeline. It is its own completely separate timeline, and where the Narada et al came from isn’t relevant to the fact that they now exist in this timeline. Yes, obviously with the comics and the backstory the writers took pains to connect the KT to the true history of the Prime timeline, but by their own interpretation of temporal mechanics it’s not a necessary connection. So even if in the KT the Narada came from a timeline where Romulus was destroyed in 2287, it isn’t necessarily the “Prime timeline.” It’s another universe with an identical history until something happens to change that. For that reason, there’s absolutely nothing to stop the writers of the Picard series to break from these supposed future events because the Prime timeline is just as susceptible to temporal incursions as any other timeline — meaning that it can branch into another possible future at any moment. We as the audience really have no idea of knowing which… Read more »

The Weekend Slice

Actually Ted Sullivan kind of said that in a reply to me on Twitter, something along the lines of them wishing they weren’t a prequel or how being a prequel kind of reduces their options. Don’t remember exactly and that tweet was also partially quoted here by Trekmovie as in that exchange he also confirmed that the sketch we saw on Discovery of the Defiant was a Defiant that had undergone modifications while it was in the Mirror Universe. Anyhow. I have read and seen enough proof that the writers room have been held back by having to follow the show bible set out by Fuller. Quite a few of the elements that were disliked by fans came from there too. Basically my understanding was that based on Fuller’s bible the studio started production work. That would have included sets, designs, prosthetics, etc at quite the cost to them. When Fuller was shown the door, the money people stuck to his concepts, most likely due to the money they had already sank into them and as such the writers had to work with what they were handed. Nonetheless I still quite liked Discovery’s first season. I do hope they improve for season 2, but with Trek having had re-imagined itself so many times during its existence I don’t have much I dislike about Discovery, but there are things I do dislike. Then again I am a strange Trekkie as I quite liked Insurrection (out of all the TNG movies it’s… Read more »

This actually will tie in the tv series with Star Trek Online. The mmo takes place around 2405

Tiger2

Does Star Trek Online deal with the Romulus explosion? And if so is there a story line going on with it?

Saru

Star trek online continues the hobus story. Romulus is gone and the empire is fractured into factions vying for power. You basically have different groups of Imperials, some rogues, and a more democratic splinter group attempting to establish a republic. It’s good stuff.

The early levels are rough, and the actual writing quality is up and down, from superb to cringy, but the storylines are fun and a good follow up to the universe.

Vulcan was never gone in the prime canon. That was a dumb misconception a lot of people made in their rush to hate the 09 film despite the obvious setup it’s in another universe.

STDisNotTrek

wait, wait, where are you coming from? In the movie a black hole destroyed Vulcan, sucked it into a massive blackhole remember? He tried to save his mother. Romulus NEVER got destroyed in the prime canon either, the planet was still around in Next Generations. So Romulus must have gotten destroyed in the Kelvin time line

Fred Javelina

TNG took place between 2366 (Encounter at Farpoint) and 2379 (ST:Nemesis). The Hobus star explodes in 2387, eight years after Nemesis. So Romulus *was* there during TNG, but in a new show set in 2399 it wouldn’t be there any more.

Disinvited

Fred Javelina, I’m not arguing with Nero coming along and zapping Spock’s ship with weapons fire changing Spock’s time travel equations such that a parallel universe was created. I’m just saying Ambassador Spock was attempting time travel as he understood it in his universe which was what created a time travel corridor in the 1st place to be distorted by Nero’s acts. Also, as we know from the 2009 movie, Spock had plenty of red matter to spare so it only makes sense that he hedged his bets in backwards time travel and injected Hobus at the earliest opportunity to save the universe while still anticipating being able to go far enough back to do it again and save Romulus too. This follows what Kirk did in TOMORROW IS YESTERDAY, i.e. not waiting until the farthest point of backward time travel to undo everything, but rather to hedge his bets by undoing things while they were reversing through time. And because both left their original universe, neither one of them knows how the Ambassador’s original plan panned out back home. The whole destruction of Romulus was never shown on screen, in the first place. We know Nero saw it but neither party knows if Spock succeeded in injecting the red matter into Hobus back enough in Prime time to ultimately save it in the original universe. And even if he did, according to Nero’s reasoning in the KT, it doesn’t matter because Nero was pissed that he had seen his… Read more »

ML31

” I’m just saying Ambassador Spock was attempting time travel as he understood it in his universe which was what created a time travel corridor in the 1st place to be distorted by Nero’s acts.”

I don’t think Spock was ever TRYING to perform ANY kind of time travel. That was never part of the plan. It wasn’t mentioned in his voice over and not that it matters, it wasn’t mentioned in the countdown comic either.

Disinvited

ML31,

Re: I don’t think Spock was ever TRYING to perform ANY kind of time travel.

Then what were the two referring to in this exchange that appeared on screen in the 2009 effort?:

“KIRK: (to Spock Prime) You’re coming back in time, changing history, it’s cheating.

SPOCK PRIME: A trick I learned from an old friend. (he does the salute) Live long and prosper. ”

Remember, Spock habitually corrects Kirk when he speaks imprecisely.

An accident can neither be a “cheat” nor a “learned trick.”

Clearly, dialog building on the line that you noted was cut, but nevertheless an on screen exchange which makes no rational sense unless both parties emerged from the meld with the knowledge that the time travel was, in fact, attempted and NOT accidental.

And, again, the only other explanation as to how the two ships could approach the supernovaeing Hobus is that both the Vulcan and Romulan civilizations had developed ships independently capable of withstanding the impossible to withstand and NEITHER thought it prudent to upgrade the rescue ships at the ready which ended up being destroyed by the supernova??!

Disinvited

ML31,

From Kirk’s POV, the events the Ambassador was attempting to influence wouldn’t be “history” as they hadn’t happened for Kirk yet. And they certainly weren’t Spock’s history. The cheating accusation makes no sense and likewise Spock’s failure to correct Kirk’s imprecision in failing to describe it more accurately as your interpretation.

ML31

The cheating accusation makes perfect sense. Kirk is calling out Spock for changing HIS history merely by being here and telling him and Scotty things they don’t know yet. It’s also a nice call back to nu-Spock accusing Kirk of cheating on the Kobiashi Maru test. Spock feels no need to explain the situation as he is aware of Kirk’s pov. So he responds appropriately.

Curious Cadet

@Disinvited — oh for the love of God … here’s the entire transcript for the purposes of discussion: SCOTT: Except, the thing is, even if I believed you, right, where you’re from, what I’ve done, I don’t, by the way, you’re still talking about beaming aboard the Enterprise while she’s traveling faster-than-light, without a proper receiving pattern. The notion of transwarp beaming is like, trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse. What’s that? SPOCK PRIME: Your equation for achieving transwarp beaming. SCOTT: Imagine that. It never occurred to me to think of space as the thing that was moving. KIRK: You’re coming with us, right? SPOCK PRIME: No, Jim. That is not my destiny. KIRK: Your dest… He… the other Spock is not going to believe me. Only you can explain what’s gonna happen. SPOCK PRIME: Under no circumstances, can he be aware of my existence. You must promise me this. KIRK: You’re telling me I, I can’t tell you that I’m following your own orders. Why not? What happens? SPOCK PRIME: Jim, this is one rule you cannot break. To stop Nero, you alone must take command of your ship. KIRK: How? Over your dead body? SPOCK PRIME: Preferably not. However, there is Starfleet regulation six-one-nine. Six-one-nine states that any command officer who’s emotionally compromised by the mission at hand, must resign said command. KIRK: So, so you’re saying that I have to emotionally compromise you guys? SPOCK PRIME: Jim,… Read more »

Disinvited

Curious Cadet,

Look, this is just fansplaining as they are nearly the same identical lines from the script I cited where the Ambassador unambiguously chose time travel:

KIRK
You know… coming back in time…
changing history… that’s cheating.

SPOCK PRIME
A trick I learned from an old friend.

SPOCK PRIME (CONT’D)
Live long, and prosper.

I don’t see your contention that changes such as “You know” to “You are” and “that is” to “it is” substantially changes its original time travel context conception?

Fred Javelina

That line could be read any number of ways. At least in terms of what was shown on-screen, Spock Prime is never shown to *intentionally* attempt time travel. The line does ring a bit oddly, but there’s zero other dialogue (not even deleted scenes that I’m aware of) that supports the theory of intentional time travel. Only the unused and unfilmed version of the script, and that isn’t canon. It could be interpreted as Spock helping Kirk and Scotty with knowledge of the future (transwarp beaming) as being a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive. But the emotional impact of the line is really more to get Kirk to realize that he and Spock will eventually become lifelong friends. We do see Romulus destroyed on screen – in Spock’s memories, granted, so it’s not an “audience viewpoint,” but that whole chunk of dialogue is pure exposition to get audiences to understand who Nero is, what he wants, how dangerous he is, and why Spock Prime is there. It gets the job done. Nero certainly seems to believe he saw it happen (so don’t tell him it didn’t happen!) From Spock’s recounting of the incident, he successfully used the red matter to stop the supernova (while failing to save Romulus), and was on his way back to where he came from (presumably, Vulcan), when he was intercepted by Nero. The Narada wasn’t anywhere near Romulus when it was destroyed, it was on the way *to* Romulus (the Countdown comics make this… Read more »

ML31

There are indeed a lot of nit picks in ST ’09. My personal largest one is how it appears they play fast and loose with galactic geography. But the exposition for how Spock and Nero get there and alter things is pretty clear.

ML31

I think you are misunderstanding the context of that exchange, Disinvited. I’m not sure any dialog was cut from there. It seems to work as is. As I wrote in an above comment… “That made sense from Kirk’s POV. From where he stood, Spock came back in time (albeit unintentionally) and changed things by interacting with younger Kirk. Telling him stuff in an attempt to try and get things on what he saw as the “proper” path as best he could. For me, it still makes sense as written.”

Spock I’m sure understood Kirk’s POV and responded appropriately to his good friend. I have found no mention of nor evidence of intentional time travel on Spock’s part. I also think you are reading far too mun into what is essentially a simple plot point. Romulus put their faith in Spock to stop the superduper nova before it destroyed their planet. Spock failed in that but succeeded at preventing the universe from being destroyed. The price he paid was he ended up getting sucked back in time. Along with the Narada. It’s as simple as that.

Tiger2

If you’re going to complain at least understand the facts. Romulus DID indeed got destroyed. That was the entire motivation for Nero’s actions lol. And it got destroyed AFTER Nemesis, ie, when TNG was already off the air.

Romulus being destroyed created a black hole which lead them to the Kelvin universe where Nero destroyed Vulcan. This was the basic plot of the story.

Disinvited

Tiger2,

One would hope that before advising others to understand the facts that you would take first care to understand them for yourself.

Romulus being destroyed absolutely did NOT create a black hole which lead to the Kelvin universe. Nimoy’s Spock artificially created a black hole with red matter in a failed attempt to stop the Supernova from destroying Romulus. It was Nero’s attacking Spock while he was attempting to use his own black hole for a time travel do-over that led them both to the Kelvin universe.

Curious Cadet

@Disinvited — “time travel do-over”? That couldn’t be from the film or Countdown as it would directly contradict Orci’s parallel universe thesis. As I recall Spock arrived to late to save Romulus, but in an effort to save the galaxy from the supernova, he used the red matter. It was Nero attacking Spock in retribution for the destruction of Romulus, which prevented Spock from escaping from the resulting black hole in time, and both got caught in an unintentional time portal creating a new universe in the process.

Disinvited

Curious Cadet,

Re: contradict Orci

My understanding was that it couldn’t contradict Orci as it came from his own pen:

https://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Trek.html

“SPOCK PRIME (V.O.)
I realized: a large black hole could
destroy the supernova. A smaller one…
could be my escape. Could send me back
in time, allowing me to complete my
mission. So I created a black hole…”

ML31

That’s not voice over heard in the feature film.

Curious Cadet

@Disinvited — Ohhhhhhhh… the original script treatment that revealed to us all that they originally intended to reset the Prime timeline. Right, that’s not canon … but it’s also not, not canon, since Orci decided not to canonize his QM MWI thesis.

Disinvited

Curious Cadet,

True, but then Orci also neglected to delete the lines about Ambassador Spocks’s time travel which build on the deleted line where KT Kirk tells Ambassador Spock that his use of time travel was a cheat and the Ambassador admits that it was a trick he learned.

Accidental time travel can nether be a cheat nor a learned trick, by definition. For that on screen canon exchange between the two to make any rational sense, both must have emerged from the meld with the understanding that the Ambassador purposely initiated the time travel corridor back through time whether or not the Ambassador’s prior line was editted out.

And, again, I point out that time travel is the only known common reasonable explanation for how two vastly different ships were able to approach a Super Duper Nova that was destroying ships and planets lightyears away.

Spock started a time travel trajectory which Nero followed in pursuit.

Curious Cadet

@Disinvited — sorry no … you’re off down a rabbit hole here. I’m not following. Kirk is stating a fact as he sees it. Spock traveled back in time. Period. Spock tells us it was accidental. Kirk says, regardless of intent, that he’s NOW cheating by having traveled back in time and changing events as they are unfolding with knowledge of the future.

The rest of it is all supposition and inference as well. If you want to believe that, go ahead, as it’s vague enough. It’s NOT what Spock said, so if you like, construct a retcon that manages to extract from what Spock said, the conditions you prefer to believe. Can’t be any worse than what they usually do in Trek …

Disinvited

Curious Cadet,

Re: Rabbit Hole

It’s not mine. You are clearly describing the cheating as Spock using knowledge from the future which has nothing to do with the accidental time travel which Kirk wrongly includes in the cheating. Spock, the stickler, would correct Kirk for incorrectly including an “accident” as a part of the cheating but he doesn’t. In fact, his goal seems to be to encourage his wrongheadedness about it.

But perhaps this is drifting from my initial premise that we can’t make anything definitive out of what drove the time travel solely from what was related on screen as the Ambassador later admits to himself that he lied to Kirk about the particulars of the whole time travel thing as his sole purpose was to preserve their friendship developing track in history in relating the tale and the scriptwriters admit they left it ambiguous.

ML31

Curious Cadet’s account is the version as I understood it as well. Spock was too late to save Romulus. But he did manage to contain the superduper nova before being sucked back in time. Therefore, in the PU, Romulus is gone. Vulcan remains.

Disinvited

ML31,

Re: Canon

If you insist on a canon explanation then the whole thing falls apart on its logic and science.

First, Hobus goes Supernova. It goes so Supernova that it utterly destroys Romulus and all ships attempting rescue evacuation. Spock has failed.

Now, you and Cadet claim Spock didn’t employ time travel. So then the science demands you account for how he and Nero managed to approach an ongoing Special Supernova that’s already destroyed all other ships at greater distances and is one the on screen dialogue said threatened the ENTIRE galaxy?

ML31

Dis,

I didn’t think I was discussing canon. Just the events in ST ’09. Star was going nova. Destroys Romulus. Spock comes in with his cure. Deploys it. Gets caught in the gravity well or whatever you want to call the time displacement thingy. Nero gets caught as well. Therefore, in the PU Romulus: Gone. Vulcan: Alive and well. It’s really not that complicated from my point of view.

Disinvited

ML31,

No Cadet was challenging me that Spock employed time travel to approach a Super Duper Nova that destroyed everything else light years away at Romulus as violating Orci.

You chimed in that none of this was on screen, which the entire event you keep attempting to relate wasn’t, but you keep retelling it as if you saw the whole thing.

You are telling me that somehow both the Vulcan and Romulan civilizations had the ability to make ships impervious to the effects of the Hobus super duper nova and both neglected to upgrade their rescue vessels – not to mention the planetary defense shields?

I’m just asking the question, if Spock didn’t turn back the clock so that he and Nero could safely approach the already Supernovaeing Hobus star how were both vessels able to safely approach it while it was annihilating starships and planets lightyears away?

Curious Cadet

@Disinvited — that may or may not have happened. We simply don’t know where Spock and Nero were in relation to Romulus, nor what the Red Matter was intended to do, or what capabilities Spock knew it possessed. Orci further complicated matters by trying to have his cake and eat it to, vis-a-vis QM MWI and Trek’s traditional time travel rules.

As for canon, this is it:

SPOCK PRIME: The star went supernova…consuming everything in its path. I promised the Romulans that I would save their planet…We outfitted our fastest ship. Using red matter, I would create a black hole, which would absorb the exploding star. I was en route, when the unthinkable happened. The supernova destroyed Romulus. I had little time. I had to extract the red matter, and shoot it into the supernova.

As I began my return trip, I was intercepted. He called himself Nero. Last of the Romulan Empire. In my attempt to escape, both of us were pulled into the black hole.

Disinvited

Curious Cadet,

No, as for canon this is also it:

“KIRK: (to Spock Prime) You’re coming back in time, changing history, it’s cheating.

SPOCK PRIME: A trick I learned from an old friend. (he does the salute) Live long and prosper. ”

An exchange which makes no rational sense unless both emerged from the mind meld with the knowledge that Ambassador Spock had, indeed, initiated time travel of his own volition because there is no other rational way for it to be thus.

ML31

That made sense from Kirk’s POV. From where he stood, Spock came back in time (albeit unintentionally) and changed things by interacting with younger Kirk. Telling him stuff in an attempt to try and get things on what he saw as the “proper” path as best he could. For me, it still makes sense as written.

Curious Cadet

@Disinvited — I’m not going to quote the whole scene, but you’re taking those lines out of context. It’s clear from the scene that Kirk is speaking from Spock’s current actions from his perspective, not Spock’s intention. Yours is but an inference, one way to look at it. That line is wide open to interpretation. I’m not denying you this interpretation, but it is a very flimsy house of cards which is not supported by any other narrative in the film.

Who cares

Disinvited, Curious Cadet, there was a deleted line or two from Spock explaining that after he stopped the Hobus blastwave he had created another singularity to try to rewind and stop it, Nero’s interference caused them to go much farther back than intended. The IDW Nero mini-series by the way shows that a lot of Romulans did evacuate, though Nero annihilated the Senate for their failure to protect Romulus.

Disinvited

Who cares.

I certainly realize that, but in trying to show them that certainty doesn’t come from introducing draws from outside sources I am unintentionally stimulating digging in when I’m trying to get them to see the whole thing of time travel in the 2009 effort IS a house of cards, flimsy et al.

ML31

Dis, I just sounded to me like there could have been confusion as to what the events of ST ’09 were in the PU.

“You are telling me that somehow both the Vulcan and Romulan civilizations…”

I cannot speak to that as none of that was broached in ST ’09. Nor was it even brought up as being a thing. Further, there was no mention of Spock time traveling to fight the super duper nova. None whatsoever. There was just the time shift when he went through the black hole. Or whatever it was. No time shift was needed, according to the movie, for Spock to use his red matter cure. He was only too late to save Romulus.

Tiger2

Yeah I know that, I was only speaking in general. I didn’t want to nerd it up lol.

And you know what, I will say me and you have had our differences in the past but in the last few months there has been a lot more civility between us which I really like and hope to continue. I come here to debate, not to argue, there is a difference in my book.

I have no issue when people disagree with me or tell me when I’m wrong. So never stop doing that! I’m just happy we can do it more civilly now.

Saiyan

It does. The whole Romulan faction story arc is built around it. I won’t go into it because it spoil the story.

With respect to Star Trek Online, I hope the new series stays 75 million light years away from it.

Darth_Meow_504

Yes. They even provide a rational explanation for a supernova dozens of light years away from Romulus destroying that planet, involving a deadly conspiracy and an ancient foe that leads to an epic war. That war ends with perhaps the most Star Trek solution possible, and in the meantime you can play as a Romulan colonist who ends up persecuted by and rebelling against the Tal Shiar and participating in the process of finding and establishing a new Romulan homeworld. It’s great stuff.

Tiger2

Wow interesting! It does sound like a deep story line on its own. And a war??? That sounds like something you could explore for several seasons. But since they referenced the event I’m not sure why the show couldn’t do it?

I don’t think the show has to get this involved but it would be interesting to see how a shift in power reverberates in the Alpha and Beta quadrants if the Romulans are crippled. They can go so many places with it and make the Kelvin films feel more relevant at the same time.

STDisNotTrek

Um, the series is already tied in to the game, but STD made it lame, glad I got out when STD arrived, or many of the characters I would have got would have ended in the airlock everytime I got one… (insert evil laugh)

Landru

Maybe Picard is going to throw a kickass NEW YEARS EVE PARTY!

SWolfe

If I recall correctly, in whichever episode of DS9 that Odo encountered another changeling, he referred to himself as a Metamorph.

Tiger2

In the article Chabon already shut down the idea has anything to do with Odo and the Founders. But I would be thrilled if they were part of the new story line personally! The Founders was an interesting species to explore and you can easily expand on them.

SWolfe

Looks like the article was updated after I commented … oh well. Then again, we were told no Khan in STID …

Levi 90028

Exactly and the map sketch he posted mentioned the dominion

Tiger2

As I said I would LOVE to see the Dominion back in some form, so I hope you’re right and they are fudging a little. I don’t expect it to be full on like DS9 but if it involved the Founders in some way that would be great IMO.

And with Romulus destroyed (I’m going to just ASSUME it is every time this topic shows up until told otherwise, but right now it’s still canon) that could create a power vacuum so they could use the Founders in a lot of ways.

Windchill

Plus you could include the prophets due to their interactions with the founders. More Picard / Sisco tension would be great! Or having an ascended Sisco finally express forgiveness and understanding to Picard would be awesome. Maybe even giving him a metaphysical “gift” of some kind to help heal lingering locutus wounds in Picard’s mind.

Danpaine

I just read the Countdown comic again a couple of days ago, what a coincidence – truly exciting that we’ll get a look at some post-Nem Trek. Very much looking forward to seeing Trek truly Boldly Go into the future again.

Tiger2

Exactly Danpaine!

And I think it’s Kirsten Beyer that’s behind the heart of the show. I think she likes working on Discovery but it’s probably the post-Nemesis timeline her heart truly is writing so many Voyager books. I’m really excited to see her vision of this era, especially since she has the 24th century shows, the Countdown comics and of course her own books to mime from, not to mention all the other post-Nemesis novels out there. They already have a wealth of material out there. But the beauty is they can ignore it all and do whatever they want. That’s why going forward is more exciting for fans!

Can you imagine how the internet will melt down if they give us a new Enterprise???

I can’t remember the last time I was so excited for Star Trek again!

Danpaine

….and there’s a whole wide open field to play in, without the canon constraints which are making Discovery so divisive. Very exciting times. The possibilities are endless. Hopefully some truly innovative writing will make an appearance.

Tiger2

I think (or hope) that they learn from the mistakes they made with Discovery early on. And I don’t just mean the visual canon issues (which again being a show going forward they have a lot more leeway) but don’t try to turn it into BSG which I feel they tried to do with Discovery. But hopefully still feel very much like Star Trek and TNG, even if it’s not about TNG directly. Actually EXPLORE a little and meet new aliens just because. Make it a show where people want to be there and not feel like they are only there because they have to be. Make it feel like a family again which was one of the best aspects about TNG.

If they just do THAT then I think the reception will be much higher than DIS has been so far. But to have a post TNG/DS9/VOY timeline again will be enough to get a lot of fans to check it out. The possibilities ARE endless!

Marja

Actually EXPLORE a little and meet new aliens just because. Make it a show where people want to be there and not feel like they are only there because they have to be. Make it feel like a family again which was one of the best aspects about TNG.

@ Tiger, I think the Discovery crew has become a family. I know they are to me.

And every indication is, they’re going to do more exploring and “go lighter” than they did in S1.

I look forward to BOTH Discovery S2 and Picard S1.

Tiger2

And why I’m excited about season 2. They said it would be more about exploration so I’m holding their word to it. ;)

As far as the family bit, you did feel that in the end but most felt like they didn’t want to be there most of the time and two of them (Lorca and Tyler) were just faking it lol. Well Tyler didn’t KNOW he was faking it but I’ll digress on that point.

And its also why I HOPE we get a permanent Captain next season. Because they are the ones that usually define that dynamic and give the crew someone to rally to.

STDisNotTrek

See the previews of season two, the uniform Pike wears looks like he is wearing a banana with a fancy cat collar. I mean how da frak are they coming up with this stuff and saying that this is trek? I bet they will put Pike in command of Discovery and say this is the reason Kirk took over. Oh wait, he was in a wheel chair, but I am sure with the way STD changes everything Trek that will change too

DIGINON

@ STDisNotTrek: If you are complaining about the producers disrespecting Star Trek history you should at least know Star Trek history. According to TOS chronology it’s a few more years before Pike ends up in a wheel chair. There’s absolutely no need for Discovery to change that. Pike can be transferred over to Discovery temporarily and then return to Enterprise afterwards.

Michael Hall

“Countdown” left a bad taste in my mouth, as did just about everything associated with Trek 2009. I hope they completely ignore it.

The River Temarc

+1 to that.

Curious Cadet

I love SPACE:1999. I’ve been re-watching the episodes in HD on ShoutFactory, and they’ve really held up — the HD remasters show just how much care and money went into producing that series.

But I have to disagree about “Metamorphs” exciting me as a fan. Season two is generally derided by fans, and justifiably so as it was the year Fred Frieberger took over and killed the show. Maya was an interesting addition, and well-liked character who had previously been a guest star during season 1. However, the character was poorly written, essentially the female Spock, with little to do outside of spouting stats and calculations, and was made all the more comical by the constant shape shifting into ridiculous space creatures to solve problems.

There’s very little about this tease that reassures me about their intentions.

And then there’s Odo and his kind, the Changelings. I really hope they don’t decide to revisit that whole Founders drama from DS9. And then there’s Capt. Garth who mastered the power of shape shifting. And the alien shapeshifter Martia from TUC on Rura Penthe. And don’t get me started on the Suliban. I just checked Memoery Alpha and it looks like The Traveler was a shape shifter … I really hope they don’t go there. I don’t know … they’ll have to do something really interesting with this to make it … well interesting.

Tiger2

They already said it has nothing to do with Odo!

But I would LOVE that personally. The Founders is one of my favorite species because they are antithetical to what the Federation is. They were isolationists who didn’t believe they could ever co-exists with solids and basically hated them because of the abuse and prejudice they faced making them prejudice themselves. They had a good reason for it but how they reacted to it was the issue. I mean there is SO much in their inherit beliefs that speaks to the issues of what Star Trek was about and why we have wars today.

But that’s why DS9 is my favorite show in the first place. Just a lot of great characters and grey situations came out of that show. If they were going back that direction it would be great. Certainly something more interesting than more conflicts with the Klingons. At the very least I’m glad the new show won’t be about that again.

DeanH

Yeah I have to agree with you regarding Space 1999. IMO the first year of the series was quite good, very much in the mold of Gerry and Sylvia Anderson productions. The second year kind of fell apart. When I was a kid I was fascinated with the Eagles and still have those Starlog Eagle blueprints haha.

Thorny

I wonder if we shouldn’t take him literally and it is Kamala herself, with Famke Jansen returning to the role. Frankly, I always thought not using her for Picard’s fantasy life in the Nexus (in Generations) was a huge missed opportunity. Non-fans wouldn’t have known who Kamala was, but that’s irrelevant since the real actress was a newcomer anyway. But the fans would have known her right away.

Locutus

I would enjoy seeing Famke Janssen again; however, I was never in love with that story. The idea was a terrible representation of women in the 24th century. Obviously, it was a different culture but I don’t think audiences would see it that way. I doubt the writers will latch on to one of TNG’s least popular episodes as a plot for the Picard series.

The River Temarc

Least popular? It was one of the best. And we’ve seen plenty of alien cultures with less-than-enlightened views (“Friday’s Child,” anyone?).

Tiger2

I have not seen that episode in YEARS! I can barely remember it. But I do remember it was quite good. And yes I think its great when we get cultures that ARE less than our standards. TOS was FILLED with them lol. And if everyone thought the same way about everything it wouldn’t be much of a show to even watch.

Anyway, it looks like I will be giving that one a rewatch soon!

JAGT

Well, and the word grok is obviously a Robert A. Heinlein-reference – “Stranger in a Strange Land”, more precisely. 99ers, metamorphs the other “Space: 1999”-references… Now what do “Stranger in a Strange Land” and “Space: 1999” have in common? – Not much, except that they both deal with the concept of human life on a celestial body that’s not Earth…
Of course there’s also the TOS episode “Metamorphosis” – the one that introduced Zephram Cochrane. So might it all tie into “First Contact” in some fashion? Questions, questions…

Adam E

I was wondering why I didn’t see that TOS episode mentioned in the article.

Thorny

“I Grok Spock” was a popular fandom phrase during TOS, too. Bridging SiaSL and Trek.

Fred Javelina

Grok has become part of generalized geek vocabulary. I hear it used by computer programmers and web coders all the time. I am not so sure that it’s a Heinlein reference per se; I think he’s just mashing up a lot of semi-obscure references to tease us without saying anything specific.

JAGT

Addendum: I think it’s worth noting that regarding the notion of “metamorphs”, looking at the various types of shapeshifters found in Star Trek is – technically speaking – the wrong way to go. A metamorph’s is not transformation is not “shapeshifting”, but an irreversible part of that organism’s development cycle.
Of course, in a Star Trek context, you’ve got “development cycles” of all shapes and colours, but looking at instances where some life form has undergone some sort of actual metamorphosis narrows it down quite a bit – and that’s not even “metamorphosis” in a narrow, biological sense, since a lot of Trek-metamorphoses are the result of some kind of “merger”:
For TOS there would obviously be the aforementioned Companion/Hedford-example in “Metamorphosis”, then there’s Decker/V’Ger in TMP. In TNG there’s Gomtuu/Elbrun in “Tin Man” and Kamala in “The Perfect Mate” (as mentioned in the article), the latter obviously being the example most closely related to Picard and also unique in that the metamorphosis didn’t affect her outward appearance but her mindset (it’s still actually the one example where metamorphosis in a somewhat narrower sense occurs).

OK I hope they get this right…. The 25th Century actually will start On January 1st 2401…. NOT Jan 1st 2400…. There was no year Zero. It started with year 1. We have 10 fingers we should be able to count.

Corinthian7

I think most people realise that Allan but let’s be honest, there was much more of a hullabaloo when the clock struck midnight to ring in 2000 than there was the following year and I don’t see any reason why that couldnt be the case when we hit 2400

c d

The reason is people can do math better in the 24th century.

Utherutheruther

So could they not have or are they not allowed to romulus destroyed due to the brand split?

Tiger2

There is no evidence anywhere to suggest they can’t use it, especially as I have pinpointed numerous times the film uses the show’s canon ALL the time. They have referenced literally every show in some way from Enterprise through TNG. It would be ridiculous that the company that OWNS the prime timeline can’t use the canon that happens in their own universe.

And if they can’t then it would just prove once and for all the Kelvin films are officially not canon to the Prime universe. I would say if that happens it would make most people here completely happy lol.

I hope not though. I just like consistency. If Romulus blew up it should be canon, period.

Phil

Yes, they can use it.

Ausir

Discovery has already used elements from the Abrams movies (namely: the Vulcan Learning Center with its skill domes), so I think the split being this restrictive is only a rumor.

Tillsy

The Vulcan Learning Centre was established in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

Ausir

There was something like it, but neither the name “Vulcan Learning Center” as such nor the design with holographic domes were mentioned or seen before the 2009 film.

STDisNotTrek

Sounds so like Sylvan Learning centers, I mean what da frak, really??? Vulcan Learning Centers, what a lame name

AdAstraPerAspera

It was very, very different in TVH. I think what Ausir was referring to was its aesthetics.

Tiger2

I think what Ausir is saying is that the design of the Kelvin film and Discovery are basically the same. Clearly Discovery used that film as an inspiration.

In TVH Spock was literally in a cave and it never specified what it was.

Michael Sacal

Since there is no year zero, the century ends on December 31st 2400 :)

EXACTLY!!!! They better not get this wrong…. That would be a bad mistake!

Michael Sacal

The series could start on January 1st, 2399, cover two years’ worth of time (all of 99 and all of 00), and end at the stroke of midnight on December 31st, 2400, and that could be great.

Two years worth of stories told across 20 or 30 episodes.

c d

Of course, they use stardates in Star Trek so will this even matter?

Michael Sacal

Enterprise and Discovery have used Gregorian calendar dates. It most likely than not will matter. Stardates are not really applicable to everyday life for civilians. It’s more of a military thing exclusive to Starship captains in Starfleet.

It’s their equivalent of military time.

Tiger2

Yes this one of the things I really like about ENT and DIS is that they use both times. I imagine as you said stardates are just used on the starships and they coordinate with other Federation ships so everyone has a similar date to follow by.

But on Earth itself everyone just uses normal calendar dates like we do now. It would make sense.

Michael Sacal

Indeed.

Thinking more about it, Stardates are more than likely a universal thing applicable to all species across the galaxy, whereas a Gregorian calendar is limited solely to Earth.

Stardates provide a common frame of reference for everyone to be on the same page rather than try to figure out the date based on the rotation of the Earth around the star Sol, heh.

DIGINON

Yes, the Gregorian calendar is based on the rotation of Earth around the sun. It doesn’t make much sense to use it on any other planet (unless it has the same orbital length).

Michael Sacal

Indeed.

CaptainSheridan

what if the Federation uses the astronimical year calander system?

Michael Sacal

I imagine they cannot use anything specific to a single planet or a single culture. It has to be something more cosmic, perhaps like measuring the rotation of the galaxy around the galactic core or something. Threat the galaxy as a whole like a planet, and the core like the star, centering it around Earth since that’s the base of the Federation.

CaptainSheridan

that does make sense

Michael Sacal

Thanks.

DeanH

Haha the second last instagram post is classic, referring to an old Ellison created science fiction show I watched growing up in Canada called Starlost!! For those unfamiliar with the show (I don’t think it ever aired in the US) it was about a group of technology primitive humans who lived in different biospheres, traveling in space on a generational ship. Can I help you!!??

bsan

Awesome show that didn’t have the budget to carry through on the amazing concept. Still, I love it.

Jon S

Harlan abandoned the show when producers wanted the wanderers to find the control room in the fifth or sixth episode. When he protested, one of them said, “Now we can just have them look for the backup control room!” When pressed, the producer said he thought that was the room with the controls to make the ship back up.

And Harlan left before he broke anything. (Information gleaned from his foreword to the novelization of the pilot.)

Captain Dunsel

Possibly the biggest drawback was that Starlost was shot on video rather than film. The video they used was too “revealing” in that (inexpensive) sets, props and costumes looked very much like (inexpensive) sets, props and costumes. And “matte” shots had to be done with chromakey (sp?) or an equivalent, so the actors looked like the weather lady against the map.

CmdrR

The producers promised a revolutionary visual process… which didn’t work. The budget was way too small. The concept could still work… with $$$ and good writers. Walter and Kier are still around…

Saru

The season finale for the last season of Doctor Who essentially does this concept.

Kommando Coenig

The revolutionary visual process was eventually called Magicam…and it did work. It utilized two slaved, moving cameras, one shooting actors on a bluescreen stage, the other using a periscope attachment on a miniature set. The two feeds were merged using the Ultimatte process into a single image which was then transferred to film. It’s drawback was that it only worked on videotape, film was far less successful. And it could also be a time consuming process, which is probably why Starlost’s producers didn’t want to use it. George Pal had intended to use the process on a projected TV series sequel to his War of the World’s film. A proof of concept short was produced, linked here. It’s not exciting but it’s intent was to show that the process could be used to widen the scope of TV projects. featuring set design by famed space program and film illustrator Bob McCall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gle_pZLrq2A

kmart

Trumbull’s Magicam WAS truly a revolutionary process, because you could matte not just the person, but his shadow as well. The limitations of video being what they were, it still meant the process was seriously inferior to what was needed in terms of resolution. See GREATEST AMERICAN HERO for examples.

Roddenberry actually gave interviews in 76 or so indicating he was planning on using the magicam process to put actors into miniature or painted planetscapes … any sort of converting video to film after compositing back then would have been seriously flawed (even 15 years later it was godawful), so be happy it didn’t go down that way back then.

c d

I think those sets were actually cardboard.

Captain Dunsel

It did in fact air in the US. It was syndicated here.

c d

Harlan Ellison had nothing to do with Starlost. It was written by Cordwainer Bird.

Cordwainer Bird was a pseudonym for Harlan Ellison.

kmart

Which everybody knows (shoot, I knew it when the show was first airing, and I was just 13 or 14), shame on you C D.

kmart

c d

Have you been posting here very long? Your posting style looks frighteningly familiar ….

kmart

Allow me to recommend you all read the very funny novel THE STARCROSSED, by Ben Bova, who along with Doug Trumbull and Ellison, worked on the show. Bova and Trumbull got out early, I think. This novel transposes the horrrid events of the show into a future SF (occurring around NOW, I believe) tvscape where holography is catching on, but it is clear that the main character is Ellison (if you get the right paperback, the resemblance on the cover is amazing!)

Fun read, now I’m going to have to go find another copy (have gone through about six in the last 40 years.)

DeanH

I know this is way off topic but if you like Bova’s political science fiction, you may want to check out Millennium which was written when the cold war was still going strong.

kmart

Dean,
I have read MILLENNIUM at least fifteen times, though only once this century (it was only last year in fact.) I really wanted to find some way to make it into a film around 1980 (this was right after I made a short from a Bova short story called STAR WON’T YOU HIDE ME.)

There is a semi-sequel, COLONY, that isn’t anywhere near as good, but MILLENNIUM, and the short stories about Kinsman that preceded it (which got merged into a novel called KINSMAN) are really great stuff, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all if the new Ron Moore series for Amazon bites off more than a bit from MILLENNIUM. god, what I wouldn’t give to get into that writer’s room …

Craig

Hopefully they just call it….

Star Trek: The Next Generation

Like they did with Rosanne

Vice Admiral Nakamura

No.

jako

And after firing Stewart for rampant rascism they call it:
Star trek : The Generations

;) <——-

Adam E

I think this has a good chance of being an animated series.

Tiger2

No. It’s definitely live action.

Adam E

I hope so. Has it been confirmed?

Tiger2

Well yeah! Stewart is PLAYING Picard again lol. He’s not voicing the character, he’s PLAYING the character. If that was the case they would probably just have all of the TNG cast be part of it and just make a cartoon set around the Enterprise E.

This is something bigger and clearly more ambitious.

We do know an animated show is coming but they haven’t said anything beyond that. Maybe we will get more of that with NYCC.

Levi 90028

As a voice over actor I take exception to this comment, just cause something is animated doesn’t mean voice artist involved are not acting or performing.
And for the record Voice over can be more challenging than live action, as in voice over performances your only tool is your voice, as opposed to live action where you also have your body to help convey the performance

Tiger2

Levi 90028, I wasn’t trying to offend anyone. I was only pointing out it sounds like it’s a live action show. If it was animated, they would’ve said that’s what it was from day one. Why wouldn’t they?

And I know voice actors act and emote of course, I was only saying he will be doing it fully as his character in front of a camera. But I apologize if you took it another way.

DataMat

I’d look forward to an animated enterprise e show! But I am very glad that a live action Picard show is happening.

jako

There is something weird when people just asume… anything without any base and in complete ignorance of what actually happens.

Its like: “They Announced a new pure Tomato Sandwich! I think there is a good chance it will be a Tuna Sandwich.”

Its not harm to anyone but still weird, somehow.

khambattafan

Zut alors, I hope he does not become a 25th Century Shinzon Man.

Braid

Could ‘grok’ be a reference to Mayim Bialik (Amy Farrah Cooper nee Fowler on The Big Bang Theory) and her GrokNation website? After all, she is a fan and with TBBT ending, available for new work…..

You’re kidding, right? It’s a reference to the novel ‘Stranger in a Strange Land.’ Also, in the ’60s a lot of the “Save Star Trek” campaigns passed out buttons that read: “I Grok Spock.”

jako

… why?
Its in the Text where it comes from. But yeah… tuna sandwich.

PA DUDE

Episode 38…

Just sayin’

Wally

“…a supernova which threatened the galaxy…”

Huh. The whole galaxy, you say? Use enough dynamite there, Butch?

David

Politically.

Wally

“Quadrant” would’ve been a better choice then. People in the Delta and Gamma couldn’t care less about the Romulans.

JonBuck

I wonder how Star Trek Online is going to deal with this being added to canon. The game is in 2410 now.

MrAskAPirate

They probably won’t do much of anything to change their existing content, though I imagine they’ll waste no time creating tie-ins for any new Trek that comes out.

It kind of sucks in a sense, because putting aside the drama the Kelvin timeline films and Discovery caused, STO has been the one place that carried on the flame of Star Trek during the last eight years. There are certainly some flaws, but the way they continue the story by expanding upon obscure elements from the series and movies while bringing in the original voice cast to reprise their roles makes for one fantastic gaming experience for any die-hard Trekkie.

To see all of that brushed by the wayside now that new ‘mainstream’ content is coming out is… disappointing.

Michael Hall

THE STARLOST, by Crom. Oh, my.

“I grok Spock” was actually a pretty common phrase in fandom during the Seventies, combining as it did two very popular nerd obsessions.

Nazgul35

I was wondering if anyone was going to point this out.

To me it looks like a Spock reference, and given his role as Ambassador to Vulcan…

You tell me “grok” and I immediately think first of the first-generation wave of buttons from the early 70s, “I Grok Spock”. Also, the title “Grokking Spock” — of the famous TV Guide feature after the first Trek convention, that introduced the word “Trekkie” to the masses.

Just sayin’.

Captain Dunsel

We Reach!

DS9 is King

Of Course Metamorphs does not mean Odo or the Shapshifters and the Dominion cause that would be a great Storyline and trekkies hate great Storylines, Rather then a great War Story beetween for example the Dominion and the Shapeshifters they prefer Quiet Cerebral Storylines with lots of talk, no Wonder why Nerds get pick on a bullied all the time and they struggle to get girlfriends, girls don’t want nerds. :p

Tiger2

I assume you wrote this drunk…and angry.

Curious Cadet

@DS9 — He only said it had nothing to do with Odo, not Shapeshifters, or the Founders, et al. So I wouldn’t write that off.

JAGT

Ever considered the fact Odo simply cannot be described as a “metamorph” because that’s just not the right term? Odo deliberately “morphs” from one shape to another abd back. Metamorphosis, however, is actually a one-way process.

Curious Cadet

@JAGT — unfortunately in the context of SPACE:1999 Maya was a “metamorph” in the same way Odo was. She shifted into another creature, and back.

Daniel

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t Picard be 94 years old in 2399? I know people are living longer in the 24th century, but even if 90 is the new 70, I’m not sure I can imagine Picard being pivotal to the overall show. Perhaps more of a recurring character, but not usually part of the main action. It just doesn’t make a ton of sense.

MattR

I don’t think Picard being in his 90s means he’ll be sidelined to a supporting role. He was given the Ent-E when he was almost 70. And they’ve made it seem as though a major focus of the show is to show Picard at this age and how he has changed.

Fred Javelina

Fun fact, Patrick Stewart was 47 when he accepted the role…

DIGINON

They have hinted that he may not be a Captain anymore but I think the show will focus on his character, not relegate him to a recurring character. I agree that it probably doesn’t make sense to try and have action hero Picard, but that was the exception rather than the rule during TNG, anyway.

A non-canon precedent for centenarian captains has been set in the DS9 Relaunch novel series, with 100+ year-old Commander Elias Vaughn in charge of The Defiant. Given advances in medicine and the healthier lifestyles portrayed in Trek, humans could easily have 120+ year lifespans, with a good quality of life for the majority of those years. Which is a long way of saying that in universe, Picard has potential decades left to do his thing — whatever that thing turns out to be.

VZX

I still don’t get how a supernova can threaten an entire galaxy.

But I’m glad Star Trek is finally going to have a show moving forward! With Enterprise, JJs movies, and Discovery we’ve had three different prequels in the last 17 years, it’s about time!

Tiger2

Yeah, I think why Enterprise and Discovery hasn’t been well loved being prequels. There are other factors too but I think this is a big one as well.

The Kelvin movies are probably more acceptable since it’s basically a TOS reboot with iconic characters, but to some of us it still feels like a prequel. This was definitely the right way to go in.

David

Threatens the political stability among the great powers of the Galaxy.

Thorny

So we’re looking at some post-Romulus alpha quadrant, where the Romulan Empire is now something like the late-era Roman Empire, with the capitol now in the Romulan version of Constantinople? Instead of Barbarians sacking Rome, a Supernova did in Romulus.

CaptainSheridan

I’d think losing the Romulan homeworld would have galactic-wide consequences.

Wally

No doubt it would have consequences in a couple of quadrants, but the movie seems to be suggesting the supernova is physically threatening everything in the galaxy.

“One hundred twenty-nine years from now, a star will explode, and threaten to destroy the galaxy. That is where I’m from, Jim, the future… The star went supernova, consuming everything in its path.”

Marja

It will be really cool if CBSAA has Star Trek shows all year round.

Denny C

Don’t be surprised if they completely gloss over the events of the 2009 movie.

Mcg

2400 would be the end of the 24th century… just sayin’… ;)

Van Banoovong

Since this will take place in 2399 it could lead into Countdown, where Ambassador Spock saved the galaxy from the nova.

Too late- Countdown was 2387 :) Romulus is gone my friend, you missed it!

DIGINON

The article points out that the Countdown comics took place several years BEFORE the new show. So if anything, Countdown could lead into the new show, not the other way around.

CmdrR

The Star Lost! Keir Dullea and Walter Keonig face a universe of terrible sfx!

Tiger2

I think this straw poll says it all why it was a no-brainer to make another show revolving around TNG. The show people felt nostalgic for was TNG by a mile:

https://strawpoll.com/77czpx24

If we didn’t have the Kelvin films already I imagine TOS would be higher but I still doubt past TNG. As a DS9 fanboy it sucks that isn’t first on the list. :(

Tiger2

Oh wait a minute, DS9 is now in SECOND place! Yaaaaaay!!!

Picard Let’s See What’s Out There ✨

DS9 blew some serious chunks 🤮 Stuck on Space Station in orbit of a 😴 planet

Everything and anyone coming to their dismal outpost….I’d like to know by name or

Season episode which ones were just pure gold = The Best Ever…very many at all?

Tiger2

Clearly not a DS9 fan lol. No worries, a lot of people still think it’s crap, boring and think it went against Roddenberry’s values. Everyone will have their own views on it.

But the latter is why I loved it so much! I loved every season from 3-7. It’s still easily my favorite show all this time later. But TNG is my second favorite! And I love talking about DS9 on Reddit because that’s where the hardcore fans of the show seem to be although most people do seem to love it here too.

DIGINON

As of this moment, the poll has 194 votes. So you can argue whether it’s really representative. Don’t get me wrong: TNG was the show that got me into Star Trek so it will always hold a special place in my heart.

Tiger2

It’s not a scientific poll obviously. But I do think it represents something you find on most of these polls and that is TNG seems to be the most popular overall out of the other shows. Now does that prove it’s the most popular, of course not, but it’s pretty telling when pretty much every barometer out there and you will have a hard time finding it at the bottom of ANY poll or survey. I don’t think I’ve seen it fall lower than #2, ever.

Or maybe it’s all completely wrong and it’s Enterprise that people can’t get enough of even though that usually falls at the bottom of most polls as it did in this one. It’s possible.

But I agree it doesn’t mean everyone feels that way but I get why CBS is probably going with the Picard show. My guess is they went out and done their own research and figured out people just miss this era not being seen for so long and that people are still very much attached to it. And I don’t think most care that much about Picard so much as just having a post-Nem show in general.

At the very least it tells you there is a huge segment out there being ignored with Discovery so it’s smart for them to have a 23rd century show and 24th century show. It will cover their basses better.

DIGINON

You said: “And I don’t think most care that much about Picard so much as just having a post-Nem show in general.”
Of course it’s just a guess but I’d say that Patrick Stewart is the draw, at least according to CBS. They expect Stewart to pull in audiences, not the setting post-Nemesis.

Tiger2

Oh yeah he’s a HUGE draw obviously! I’m only saying for years most people LIKE me just wanted a show to go forward again. You would hear some people saying they want another TNG show like you hear people saying they want a TOS show but those seem to be in the minority. Majority of the people just wanted to continue post-Nem or beyond.

When it was revealed when DIS would take place, there was a chorus of dissent about it but it had nothing to do with the characters or premise, just the setting. I knew then while great for some, it was clearly a mistake for others and they would reject it for another prequel.

But yes like others I’m SUPER happy we are getting Picard too but I have said for me personally I just want to go forward again.

But I think this was smart to get him to get more fans on board since he is so iconic now. But I would be fine if he only did one season and then spin the show off to new characters on a new Enterprise or something.

We’ll see but it’s very, very exciting so far! :)

DIGINON

I’d guess that CBS isn’t just trying to lure back disgruntled TNG era fans with this show, though. They are probably hoping that Stewart’s fame can bring in new viewers as well.

Tiger2

I’m sure that’s the plan, but I have a lot of doubt it will work out that way. It will easily bring in more subs than Discovery but end of the day I think it’s still going to primarily just be old Star Trek fans tuning in, just the ones who didn’t like Discovery or still on the fence about AA in general.

But maybe I will be proven wrong and it will get new fans on board too. I hope so! That’s what TNG did back in the day so maybe lightning will strike twice!

ML31

I think they went with Picard because they felt they needed a familiar character. Stweart was more affordable and more willing to take part and still resonated with the fans. I still think if Shatner were younger and willing that is the way they would have rather gone. Stewart was the 2nd choice. No way to prove any of this. Just my theory and I think it logical.

ML31

Regardless of the poll, I think there was a very good reason why we had the reboot (or the alternate timeline) of TOS rather than TNG. I think Paramount did their own research and found Kirk and Spock resonated far better than Picard and Data. Just my theory and I stand by it.

Tiger2

Yeah I agree. By then it was well over 15 years before we saw anything TOS related. TNG just finished their films so it was still too early to do any reboot with them. I too think Kirk and Spock is more known of course, so it made sense from a marketing POV. Especially to bring them back as their younger selves like TOS.

But I think that tide is turning since we got the Kelvin films and now doing DIS which is a back door for more TOS characters and people want to see the TNG era again. Especially since it’s also been 15 years since we last saw them. It’s just time.

Alex

We really need a title for this. Calling it ‘The Picard Show’ reminds me of a late night comedy.

CmdrR

As long as he doesn’t book Joe Piscopo! Maybe Bob the Antedian & The Filets for a musical guest.

PaulB

How about “Make It Show”?

bathyscaaf

“Metamorphosis” may refer to the original series episode, which implies Picard will be restored to youth… so Patrick Stewart might play Picard for a limited time, with another actor taking up the reins as the younger Picard.

Picard Let’s See What’s Out There ✨

How about his time aboard the Stargazer?

Exploration of that time would of been interesting….

Joshua

This is all I’ve wanted since Voyager ended. 20 f-ing years of prequels, alternates, and just going to ignore Nemesis. I really wanted a Post-Dominion War show where Federation was in shambles. But this still presents an opportunity to present a changed Federation. I had an idea for a new show. Captain Wesley Crusher of a non-Star Fleet, Federation affiliated small tactical ship. No weapon or tech restraints. Anything goes. Tasked with fixing cracks in the otherwise juggernaut of the ever expanding Federation bureaucracy. A sort of response to preventing another Maquis and to execute special ops. I always found it ridiculous when the captain of a major star ship was leading a bunch of career bridge officers to save 12 scientists from a mine or to capture a spy or other such nonsense. Wesley Crusher will be down and out. No longer the golden child. The ship will in no way be staffed or behave like Star Fleet. Random alien pawns may be recruited or dissmissed on a whim. Some stick around. Their natural rivals will be Section 31. But they will begrudgingly work with them at times and perhaps various crew are members. The ship will be rather small, extremely fast and maneuverable. Can operate with only a crew of maybe 4-5 but large enough cargo space to temporarily hold more, or move goods. I had an idea that the ship would have no holodeck but instead the entire ship was loaded with holo emitters making it capable… Read more »

The River Temarc

This sounds like a terrific way to honor the best of TNG.

Havenbull

Too bad the actor Wil Wheaton turned out to be… shall we say… less than leading man material. I like your idea, though they would have to use a new actor for Crusher.

mwz

Taking anything in that Chabon post even close to literally is a mistake. The new Picard show has nothing to do with Space:1999, probably nothing to do with Metamorphs, and the 2399 setting is possibly true, but we basically already knew that one (and this is definitely not a confirmation).

Still excited to find out some details on the new show.

Ship based? Planet based? Large cast or small? Completely new story or picking up on a previous one? Will Picard be in most scenes or just be the story focal point? Et cetera.

I beleive this metamorph has something to do with Spock’s mission for reunification between Klingons and Romulans. Picard must be playing a big part in this, and there may be ST6-like parties against the idea.

Robert

Seriously the obvious connection between Grok (and Stranger in a Strange Land) is Darmok, The understanding of a completely alien culture.

Peter

I don’t get the metamoph connection, the Martians weren’t really the purpose of the book, yes nymphs became adults and adults old ones but how the heck do you pull metamorph out of that?

Chabon was clearly kidding. Not sure we should be reading into ANYTHING he said. His whole post was obviously designed to poke a little fun at the culture of people scrambling for the smallest details.

Come on it is so simple what the next Picard Star Trek serie is about. Picard is appointed by the Q continuum to meantain his Time line so mankind is ready for the next evolution into a class 3 civelasation. To accomplish that Picard has to meantain the peace between multiple fraction an avoid temporal coldwars to prove himself & mankind. Q already told Picard “Charting the unknown possibilities of existence” Sounds logic i guess.

Ok back to drinking.

RogueGentleman

Apparently the author missed some fairly important and relevant research; Star Trek Online and CBS already created an official canon timeline that goes up to 2409 but has lots of room for more detailed stories.

PaulB

Star Trek Online is not canon. It’s an officially licensed product. It is not canon.

Jason Desrosiers

Anyone calling this lame obviously didn’t see that Kirstin Bayer will be on the production team. Can’t go wrong, she is definitely one of the top 3 Trek novelists and one of my absolute favorites.

kmart

The Reeves-Stevenses were terrific TREK novelists (in my top 3 — along with early Diane Duane and John Ford — for their first few novels), but I was extremely disappointed with their ENTERPRISE work. Success in one form of media is absolutely no guarantee that it will translate, especially when there is a collaborative effort where many other hands can sweeten or sour the pot (and that’s assuming she even write well for TV, since I didn’t see ANY evidence of good writing on DSC beyond about half of one ep — one that didn’t have her name on it.)

Jai

”J.J. Abrams first Trek film established that in 2387 a supernova which threatened the galaxy exploded, destroying the planet Romulus.”

No, the year was mentioned in the Countdown comic, not the film.

”it is worth noting the Countdown series was developed by Star Trek screenwriters Alex Kurtzman and Roberto Orci as a way to tie their film into Star Trek: The Next Generation, and of course Kurtzman is an executive producer on the Picard show.”

Bob Orci himself has also said “it’s not canon unless it’s on film.”

So all we have is what was shown on screen. A supernova (the planet’s own star?) destroyed Romulus, and we don’t know how many years had passed between NEM and the Spock that ended up in ST09. It could actually be several decades after 2387.

DIGINON

While not specifically mentioning the year 2387, Spock does say IN THE FILM that the destruction of Romulus happens “129 years from now” (when he meets Kelvin-Kirk). So the year is canon.

TF47

Star Trek 2009’s main events take place in 2258. Prime-Spock mind melds with Kelvin-Kirk and begins, “129 years from now, a star will explode and threaten to destroy the Galaxy.”

2258 + 129 = 2387

Captain Dan

The Jellyfish states to Spock in ST09 that it was constructed or commissioned in 2387.

Jai

Thanks for correcting me, everyone.

There are a couple of plausible ways to retcon this in any future shows, but obviously it does complicate things…

Simon

Uh…a supernova would not destroy the Galaxy. The danger posed was the political instability caused by Romulus’ destruction. You really need to research (for like five minutes) what a supernova is.

Wally

That’s specifically how it’s described in the movie. The screenwriters needed to do research on supernovas.

Wally

And even if they meant political instability, it still wouldn’t affect the entire galaxy. The Romulan Empire ain’t THAT big.

Plus, this information is provided by Spock, who has never been one for casual hyperbole.

JAGT

Have you watched ST09? – There has been a LOT of discussion regarding that quote, with the general consensus being that it was rather nonsensical. Of course, it’s still science fiction, so you can always devise some esoteric gravitational wave/wormhole/mass/energy-reasoning, but as it stands, the literal quote was “A star will explode and threaten to destroy the galaxy […] A Star went supernova. I promised the Romulans that I would save their planet…” – no word about political ramifications.

CaptainSheridan

…… you are basing your statement on current scientifically known facts. Maybe the shockwave could travel at FTL speed or through subspace or some other trekie scy-fy invented “science” as yet to be discovered. Don’t forget the “fiction” in the term science fiction.

Steve

The century doesn’t end until 2501.

Picard Let’s See What’s Out There ✨

Enterprise J would seriously rock IF it served as Picard’s new ship – it all goes hand in hand 👋🏻

DIGINON

Enterprise J is 150 years later.

skyjedi

At best it would be the Enterprise F and it would not be his ship he would be there to christen the new enterprise and see her on her way. If he lives that long.

Tiger2

The J is in the 26th century. We’re not even close to that. And it would just make sense we see the Enterprise F because the E would be around 30 years old now and that’s about when a ship is replaced barring a refit or being destroyed like the D.

Of course we could still see the E herself! I would have no problems with that since it’s easily one of my favorite ships and one of the most beautiful in the Trek universe. I still have no clue what they were thinking with the Discovery but I will digress. ;)

Nachum

I was kind of hoping that they’d keep the timeline going and it would be 2295, but this is cool.

Of course, Stewart hasn’t aged that much. :-)

Michael Rose

I fear they will ruin Picard the same way this new generation ruined luke skywalker

Danpaine

Though I thought Mark Hamill’s performance in TLJ was fantastic, you could very well be correct. Out with the old, in with the new. It’s the way of things.

skyjedi

They could not think of a way to keep Luke intact and have Rey replace him as the central hero. Lucas might have been able to do it. Not sure if the Lucas who made the prequels could have but 1980’s Lucas could have.

Tiger2

Just hit me but we are probably going to get quite a bit of news at NYCC now! :)

I don’t think anything major but I suspect since they have been dropping hints about the show online then maybe they are preparing to drop some solid info next month! If Patrick Stewart shows up then I expect some news.

Man this is exciting! I’m just happy the 24th century is back!!!!! Let’s make Star Trek great again!

Ada

The metamorphs are the 8472 species… here’s the proof https://sto.gamepedia.com/2399

albatrosity

I’m just gonna point out we have no idea what will happen in the future of the Prime timeline because we haven’t seen it yet. Enterprise in particular heavily implied that there are just too many damn futures to keep track of and there are plenty of instances where things “happened” in the past that weren’t “supposed” to have happened, like the Xindi attack comes to mind. So the presence of timeships from the 29th century is no guarantee that the timeline they just warped into and the timeline they just warped out from are one and the same. Daniels had no problem jumping from future to future. That’s just how time works in Star Trek: no one has a f*cking clue! lol

So I personally don’t think the writers of this new series are beholden to any sort of canon thus far established by the brief hints and glimpses of the post-Nemesis timeline we’ve seen so far. By definition, it hasn’t “happened” yet. And I think whether the writers include Romulus’s destruction will come down to just how badly they feel they need to acknowledge the KT. I think by not including it, not only would they avoid dealing with a lazy plot contrivance from ST09, but they’ll make a statement that this series and the Prime timeline in general stands apart from the KT, that “real” Trek doesn’t need the blockbuster association. Which, frankly, to me, would be a powerful stance to take.

Tiger2

I think most things you said are true and WHY going forward is just more exciting for most people. As you said it can be anything because it hasn’t happened yet so it just gives them the freedom neither Enterprise or Discovery truly has.

I just couldn’t get myself to care about the Klingon war in DIS because we already knew there was going to be a stalemate basically. It was just filling us in how it happened. I really don’t care how it happened. I get some do though but I don’t think we needed a season of a TV show to tell us and that’s the problem.

As far as Romulus exploding and all of that, yes, they can find ways to get around it. I DO hope it’s acknowledged though because I think continuity is important and then the Kelvin films will feel even more irrelevant. People write them off now, but if the Picard show said it didn’t really happen it will just confirm the films are not canon to Prime Trek. THey are literally just side stories that are isolated from the rest of the franchise. And also Prime Spock’s death will feel meaningless since that wasn’t ‘our’ Spock who died, just another Spock from another universe. That impact is gone.

End of the day though, I just care more about this show than I do the movies. If they really do decide the Kelvin films are moot I’ll get over it. ;)

DPrescott

Tiger. Good point about the Klingon War. However honourable the intentions of the new producers, Discovery just didn’t move us forward as we hoped. I think it’s that sense of a missed opportunity that really rankles..

albatrosity

Alright I’m willing to sacrifice Romulus in order to preserve the emotional connection we have to Prime Spock. That’s a fair concession lol

Drew Melbourne

I may be way off base, but all the Space 1999 references plus the Metamorphosis hint followed by the sentence claiming that there are no Trek hints suggests to me “Think about a character introduced in Trek’s second season.” That’s right! Polaski’s Back! BOOM!

Commander K

I’m hoping no ‘im angling for a job!’ Sirtis or Dorn to make appearances. I can see Patrick Stewarts phone… ’15 missed calls’. Dorn, Sirtis, Dorn, Sirtis etc.