NYCC: ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Panel Discusses Season Two Mysteries, Promises Return To Classic Trek

(Photo: CBS)

Over the weekend we posted the live stream of the Star Trek: Discovery New York Comic Con panel and followed that up with some updates from the panel regarding the Picard show as well as some revelations to inform our trailer analysis. But there was much more discussed in the panel, so we broke down the highlights for those who haven’t had a chance to watch it, starting with a look at what they revealed about the theme, story, and design choices for the second season. We will follow this up with insights from the panel about the characters and actor performances.

Executive producers and cast of Star Trek: Discovery at New York Comic-Con 2018 (CBS)

SPOILERS WARNING

 

Science, faith and the mystery arc of the 7 signals

Alex Kurtzman outlined the overall arc and themes of the second season, which have already been telegraphed in both the SDCC and NYCC trailer  and the promo poster:

The seven signals, where they came from, who or what sent them, is really what drives season two. The Discovery crew is trying to figure out what they mean. Are they some kind of path? Are they a message? We don’t know. There is a lot of interesting conversation about sciences versus faith. What does faith mean? Even Starfleet can’t understand what they are and where they came from. So, that is a big part of the drive of season two.

 

Red Angel and 7 signals featured on season two poster

Lead actress Sonequa Martin-Green picked up on this and talked more about the mysterious “red angel”:

The red angel is such a mystery. And as Alex said, it is the big mystery of the season is this red angel and these signals. As you saw in that fantastic trailer, the red angel appears to Burnham at a very critical moment and what I find out is that Spock has also seen this red angel earlier in his life.

Ethan Peck and Sonequa Martin-Green at the NYCC "Star Trek: Discovery" panel 2018

Ethan Peck and Sonequa Martin-Green at the NYCC panel

A return to exploration, episodic stories, and canon

Anson Mount, who joins the cast as Captain Christopher Pike, outlined how the second season begins:

We start out by chasing these occurrences of these red signals. We have already determined that the energy needed to create them is beyond anything we have ever encountered. This initially brings us to an asteroid that is hurtling towards a pulsar and we find there is a downed ship, the Hiawatha. When we go to inspect, there is one awake survivor [Reno] played by Tig Notaro, playing the engineer who stayed behind trying to keep all the injured alive. She is fantastic and adds such a great flavor to the show. She was fun working with too. That character comes aboard for a while.

Mount, an avowed Trek fan himself, went on to talk about how the second season mystery allows for a return to classic Star Trek storytelling:

Each step, each time we chase down a signal, there is a step towards truth. What I really like about what the writers are doing with this, is while they are maintaining this decision to do this serialized version of Star Trek, this choice of chasing down the signals is bringing in a sort of classic episodic feel to the second season. So, each show does have its own character, its own question, while maintaining this really strong through line.

During the audience Q&A the panel was asked what message they had for longtime Trek fans who felt that Discovery didn’t fit with what they saw as Star Trek. Stamets actor Anthony Rapp, another cast member who is also a big fan of Trek, fielded the question with a call for patience and to watch the upcoming season to see how it all ties together:

Trust that we have a long game approach to how this will fit in and this will all get answered through season two.

USS Discovery explores an asteroid field in the second season premiere

A return to classic Klingons coifs and cleavage, but don’t expect TOS smooth-heads

One of the biggest changes for the second season revealed in the NYCC trailer is how the Klingons have hair again–and not just hair but long, luxurious hair like that seen in the TNG era. Without actually flat out saying Klingons would have hair again, makeup designer Glenn Hetrick telegraphed the new look for the Klingons during his panel at Star Trek Las Vegas. At NYCC over the weekend, L’Rell actress Mary Chieffo put the pieces together explicitly, saying:

You might have noticed in the trailer, there is a bit of a new aesthetic going on. [flips her hair around] And that is a really exciting addition that has been made and is inspired by Glenn Hetrick, who is our designer and a huge Trek fan himself. He was inspired by season 6, episode 23 of The Next Generation “Rightful Heir.” There is a reference when Kahless is brought back as a clone…the way he proves himself is he tells the story of how he cut off a lock of his hair and dipped it into a volcano and made the first bat’leth, with which he killed Molor, the terrible tyrant who was running Qo’noS at the time.

Chieffo then explained how they are extrapolating from this brief moment in TNG:

So, in the spirit of Discovery we took that one little beautiful seed that was planted from an earlier iteration and kind of expanded on that. And that we see that in a time of war the Klingons would shave their heads, and in a time of peace, we start to grow it back out. I really love the symbolism of that.

UPDATE: Responding to comments on social media about how this all fits into future Klingon history, Chieffo explained that things change:

At the NYCC panel, the actress also revealed it isn’t just hair that will be part of the classic look for L’Rell, now Klingon Chancellor, during the second season:

The Chancellor aesthetic when it comes to clothes – Gersha Phillips again has outdone herself…I was wearing these boots and she was “Oh, you like heels?”…I’ve got these epic heeled boots and these gorgeous dresses and a little bit more of your classic Klingon cleavage that you all love so very much!

During the Q&A portion, a fan asked if we would see the even more classic TOS style of Klingons, from the pre-ridged forehead days. While Kurtzman didn’t dismiss the idea, he explained the reasoning behind their approach for the Klingon look:

The ability to create the kind of makeup we can do now didn’t exist back then. So, a lot of the choices that were made were because they didn’t have the choices that we have. So, part of what we do is try to maintain the spirit of what was going on in TOS and then bring it into the modern age but brings that spirit to it. So, technically are there Klingons that look like some of them did? There could be. There is no reason there wouldn’t. But, the Klingons we have chosen to focus on are going to look more like the ones you have seen in Discovery.

L’Rell and other Klingons with hair from NYCC trailer

A return to Talos IV?

Speaking of canon, when a fan asked if there was “any chance we will see of the original Star Trek characters on the show besides Spock?” Alex Kurtzman replied simply “yes.” The producer then teased the return of some aliens that are very familiar to Captain Pike, saying:

You guys like Talosians? We should see some.

Of course, the illusion-inducing Talosians were featured the original Star Trek pilot “The Cage” and seen in flashbacks in the episode “The Menagerie.” Based on Star Trek’s future history, Pike and the crew of the USS Enterprise (including Spock and Number One) visited Talos IV around 3 years before the Enterprise rendezvoused with the USS Discovery in the Discovery season one finale. Since Pike’s mission to Talos IV, the Federation has imposed General Order 7, making any contact with the planet a death penalty offense.

Talosians from TOS “The Cage”

Get ready for your head to explode, emotionally

Pointing to the action-packed trailer that was first shown during the panel, Sonequa Martin-Green noted that there is more to the second season:

This season is deeply emotional. It is a deeply emotional story and you really do get everything this season. You are seeing us dip down into the depths this season. There is so much palpable action, and all that. But the emotion is what is most palpable. It is going to be really thrilling because of that. It is a bit of a departure, but it is very much still in line with how authentic our show strives to be.

Culber actor Wilson Cruz followed that up, with a promise to fans:

Your heads are going to explode!

Sonequa Martin-Green in season two premiere of Star Trek; Discovery

More from NYCC

There is more to come from our coverage of New York Comic Con, including another report from the Discovery panel and interviews. So stay tuned.


Star Trek: Discovery is available exclusively in the USA on CBS All Access. It airs in Canada on Space and streams on CraveTV. It is available on Netflix everywhere else. The second season will debut on All Access and Space on Thursday, January 17th, 2019, and on Netflix January 18th.

The first season of Star Trek: Discovery will be released on Blu-ray and DVD on November 13th.

Keep up with all the Star Trek: Discovery news here at TrekMovie.

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Spiked Canon

I thought they were going to move toward TOS klingons look. Oh well. Mislead again

Bamasi

I’m guessing proto-Spock keeps the beard for several episodes, until he starts behaving more like the Spock we know. Just a guess.

Eric

It seems obvious they rescue him from somewhere and he just hasn’t shaved in a while.

Gary 8.5

And after he shaves it off,
We see the beard again when we return to the mirror universe.

alastair87

One choice that is hard to reconcile was that Sarek was with the rebels yet Spock also exists in the MU. So where does the relationship with the Terran Amanda fit in?

albatrosity

Pretty simple: she’s Sarek’s slave, or a concubine, whatever word they wanna use

El Chup

I don’t recall them ever saying that to be honest.

I'm Dead Jim

No, you apparently just misunderstood.

Land O'Calrissian

You weren’t misled (or “mislead,” as you put it). No one associated with the show has ever said that would be the case.

Luke Montgomery

The Klingon look from TOS? Why would they have white people painted brown with spray painted bubble wrap belt buckles? They can do better. Roddenberry did as soon as he had the cash in TMP. They already retconned the dumb look for TOS Klingons in Enterprise. Just assume that the augment virus will surface again and make Klingons absurd looking by the time TOS era arrives and you’ll be ok. Hey, is anybody else bored with all the whining about Disco here? Why can’t people just not watch the show instead of crying about being “misled” here?

Because a happy Trekkie is apparently a bored Trekkie.

Captain Ransom

I am so bored with the whining in general. It was bad when the new Trek movies came out. Even worse now. And it’s the same whiners complaining about the same thing. And no matter what, they will find something to complain about. And just you wait, when the Picard series comes out, they will find something to complain about there too. If they feel they can do better then they should start producing their own. Seriously, Trekmovie should just close down the comments section and just post articles. I miss the days when there was no social media boards and all you had were articles in Starlog magazine. Fans my *ss. These fanboys are whining babies. They make Star Wars fanboy complainers look pale in comparison. Trek’s worst enemy in the fans. If Trek disappears forever it’s due to that.

Disinvited

Captain Ransom,

There is absolutely nothing in the selection of letters sent to the STARLOG COMMUNICATIONS and published in STARLOG that supports this nostalgia-fueled false fan history that you’ve concocted.

kmart

Gee Cap, you wouldn’t blame not being able to keep an audience?

Mr Limpopo

A race of Brown aliens is too much of a stretch for you, eh? Purple or Green are ok. But Brown? No sir!

ML31

Why oh why do some people think that when someone says they want to see something that evokes the feel of the era the show is supposed to be in do they think it means making a 100% exact copy down to the materials they used to create it in 1966? There is no logic behind such a conclusion.

albatrosity

The only thing I’m bored of is when people complain about other people’s opinions. You can argue about facts. Let the people say what they want.

Trekkie

So, Kurtzman makes it all about his god again. He can’t help himself, he’s wrecked every sci fi franchise he’s touched.

“Starfleet doesn’t even know about Jesus”

When even Trek goes back to religious nonsense, you know we’re going back to the Dark Ages.

El Chup

I’m fine as long as it doesn’t afford any credibility to religious dogma and the supernatural.

Like DS9?

I'm Dead Jim

WTF are you talking about?

Infinite diversity in infinite combinations. Just because you are opposed to a belief doesn’t mean that it is wrong or that we are on a path back to the dark ages.

Many people are believers – maybe not in a God per se but perhaps something more – and Trek has tackled religion before. If you don’t like it nothing says you have to watch it.

albatrosity

Yikes, someone’s got a beef with Christianity. IMO people could use a heightened sense of spirituality, not necessarily religion but like a sense of the supernatural. Things are boring when everything is scientific. Leave something to the imagination. I personally can’t be more thrilled that Disco is tackling faith this season. I hope they have some profound things to say.

Soren

Since when are angels red? I hope they are planning something a bit more inventive here than the well worn Trek path of god like beings who turn out to be devilish.

El Chup

I doubt it is an actual angel.

Soren

I’m not saying I believe in angels of course. Just saying how they’re usually portrayed. If there is something genuinely god like about how these are explained that really is the end of Trek. Voodoo garbage is the last thing we need in a franchise that used to aim for higher ideals.

werwe

I wonder what they want with a starship eh?

Luke Montgomery

Of course it’s not. People here are slow-witted.

Michael Hall

So long as they’re not friendly angels *shudder*.

Luke Montgomery

Friendly angel come to me.

NOOOOOOOO! Friendly angel GTFO.

khambattafan

No, even the Disco staff aren’t daft enough to give us literal angels, but the point is, there’s likely no possible angle on this “visions of angels” plot line that could turn out to be smart/original/interesting. I know, I know- I should have a little more faith in Alex Kurtzman, what with the divine track track record.

kmart

Am wondering when they start licensing the old Styx song ‘come sail away’ to tie in with this, since you’ve got starships and angels in the same tune.

Always liked it, but in terms of TREK, the missed rock song of all time has for me always been Borne on Wings of Steel by Kansas, against which I always see the TMP Enterprise in a mental montage. Also thought that if Enterprise had had any cahones and actually been about ‘getting from here to there,’ then THAT would have been the theme song, and a show worth watching.

ML31

“No, even the Disco staff aren’t daft enough to give us literal angels,”

I don’t know… Just look at what they gave us in season 1. Nothing is too far fetched at this point.

albatrosity

First of all, nothing is original. Every idea is a remix of a prior idea, period. Steal like an artist, as the saying goes. Well we live in a postmodern remix culture and whether an idea is original isn’t as important as the way it’s presented and how it resonates with people. Is there “likely no possible angle” that “could turn out to be smart/original/interesting?” Maybe you need to seek out a greater imagination, as Da Vinci said to Janeway when asking her to come to church. Your lack of faith [in the concept] disturbs me.

alphantrion

I don’t believe in that nothing is original anymore. Human brains are such things that they can and should come up with original things or ideas. When you say nothing is original, that is when innovation and imagination dies.

albatrosity

I like that attitude! I’ll adopt your strategy and search for originality wherever I can. I just know that ultimately, there are only so many permutations of the same themes. When I was in art school, that’s what my professors told me: borrow and reinterpret, but don’t have the hubris to think you were the first to ever come up with it. You just happen to have done it your own way. That was good enough for me then. But in the spirit of exploration, I’ll try to challenge that.

Phil

Sorry, but exploding heads invokes some less then pleasant memories. Being pleased is sufficient exposition….

Ben

“And that we see that in a time of war the Klingons would shave their heads, and in a time of peace, we start to grow it back out.”

Did they make this up just to explain the look from Season 1? If that’s the case, we probably should’ve seen a lot of bald Klingons throughout most of DS9.

MysticalDigtial

except DS9 is 100 years in the future, and cultural norms change rapidly. We don’t do our hair and style like they did in the 1910s anymore do we?

Kennelly

Agreed, I mean you can even easily tell whether a picture is from the 1980s or today just by looking at hairstyles&clohing.

kmart

Are you saying that about realworld or Trek from today and 80s? I mean, from what I recall, first Dax looked like any pretty girl from any era in terms of the long brunette hair, not period-specific at all.

Considering the number of folks who shave head this century, I don’t think you can tell much about what year they are from at all, because there’s quite actually nothing to go by.

albatrosity

Using Dax as one example is not enough to prove your point. Look at Kes, her hairstyle screams mid-90s. Even T’Pol’s early hair is a carryover from the 90s. I agree with Kennelly, hair says a lot about the era you’re from. Think about women’s hairstyles from the 60s, easily recognizable.

kmart

Kes’ hair as I recall is just Twiggy 1966 or Goldie Hawn ’68, so no, I ain’t getting that.
Early Trekmovie hair for guys dates it as early 80s, just over the ears, that’s an example I’ll buy into.

albatrosity

I just know that when I watch an episode of Friends from 1994 and an episode from 2003 I can tell right away when it takes place. And not from the size of their cell phones but by the size and shape of their hair.

El Chup

Yeah, it’s clearly a load of nonsense. But I’ll swallow it if we get Klingons that actually look like Klingons.

The River Temarc

I would also suggest that the baldness might be specific to this particular battle, perhaps because T’Kuvma really was bald as a result of a genetic mutation, and hus followers shaved their heads to honor him. That might also explain T’Kuvma’s choice of Voq as torchbearer — Voq was an albino who also hadn’t a genetic mitigation.

albatrosity

But it doesn’t explain the hair because when T’Kuvma summoned all the Klingons from the other houses, before they were his followers [which many of them never were], they were *already* bald. So T’Kuvma’s war as an explanation for why they’re all bald makes no sense. Unless, as other posters have posited, they were all already embroiled in another conflict that we never saw.

Tiger2

Exactly!

The genetic bald idea just sounded pretty lame to begin with. I never even heard of it until a few months ago on this board. Now they are trying to cover their tracks with the new explanation of shaving their heads for war. That sounds just as lame and nonsensical IMO but I’m not going over think it because it gave us what most of us wanted from day one, hair! That’s all that matters so you just roll with it.

But I wish these writers would stop with all these crazy explanations to explain why Klingons look different. The augment thing from Enterprise and now this is just completely unnecessary. Not EVERYTHING has to be explained to the tenth degree. Hopefully it won’t even be mentioned on the show.

Michael Hall

And Klingons had red blood on TNG, and Pepto Bismol-pink blood in THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY. No use holding Discovery liable for every canon inconsistency, which have been rife since ‘James R. Kirk’ onwards.

Luke Montgomery

Exactly.

Luke Montgomery

It’s all made up. Just go with it.

werwe

Did you even read the article, they remark on those exact points.

GermanTrekkie

I for myself see everything that is depicted as star trek canon as some kind of retelling of events in a meta universe. Like a historical drama. Of course you are not gonna explain why Napoleon looks different in different movies. We just never get to see the real Napoleon. Same with Kirk. Or would you go to great lengths to explain that Kirks physiognomy differs because of the kelvin timeline…

ML31

Yes. It was just made up to explain away the look from S1. But we know it to be hogwash as the very first scene there was no war and everyone was bald. The Klingons in Errand of Mercy were preparing for war and none of them were bald. So that explanation doesn’t fly. I said before they should just ignore it and if they MUST say something then just say, “They are Klingons and it’s a long story.” And leave it at that.

AdAstraPerAspera

Here come the whiners again.

Luke Montgomery

They are as deeply boring as they are annoying.

El Chup

Which equally applies to people who constantly blow smoke up the rear ends of the showrunners and think they can do no wrong.

khambattafan

Yeah, it’s weird those usernames whose primary role here seems a futile attempt to police the comments and shut down any criticism of flawless Discovery. An intriguing, um, hobby.

kmart

On at least one other site, I think they must have been compensated for their time, going by the frequency of posts and how they got away with violating board rules while going after posters critical of Enterprise. Not saying that about the folks here though.

To hit the same thought twice in fifteen minutes sounds pretty sloppy, but I’ve got to again go with ‘it can’t happen HERE.’

werwe

Irony

albatrosity

Hey here’s an idea: try never using the word “whine” again in your posts, ever. Try reading comments you disagree with without feeling the need to put others down for expressing their opinions. Try having…oh god what’s that word…I think it’s respect? There’s nothing “boring” or “annoying” or *wrong* about anyone’s feelings toward Discovery. The only thing that annoys me is reading comments like yours and everyone’s below yours. People complaining is fine. But the people complaining about the complaints? Come on. Just state your disagreement and move on. Leave your putdowns in your quarters…there’s no room for it on this site. Please. Please and thank you.

El Chup

A more episodic season with an over arching serialisation is how the first season should have been done. So, again,I like that they are learning and listening to the constructive criticism.

Not bothered by no TOS Klingons. At the end of the day they only made a handful of appearances compared to literally hundreds of hours of the ridged versions.

The Talosians would certainly be interesting to see, as long as they didn’t mess around with them. It would be interesting to see Vina.

albatrosity

Do you really think they’d make big-brained Talosians look like the 60s version? There’s no way that would be taken seriously. It looked ridiculous in 1964 and it would most certainly turn people off today.

Disinvited

albatrosity,

The look and sound of the Talosians was supposed to subtly creep people out — NOT turn them on.

albatrosity

Well I personally don’t find anything about their ridiculous makeup subtle or creepy, just campy lol. And when you say sound, are you referring to the original 1964 alien voices or the redubbed ones from the Menagerie?

Disinvited

albatrosity,

In its time, it was very much in vogue with its state of the art competition, THE OUTER LIMITS, in what was allowed by the NAB. And I meant the original non-Throne voices. Of course it pales in shock factor by what’s permitted to be visualized in homes now.

But, yes in THE MENAGERIE the networked softened it.

I think I understand your dilemma. It is difficult to recapture the creepy feeling THE OUTER LIMITS’ Megasoid originally created after Allen turned it into Wally Cox’s sidekick in his LOST IN SPACE.

Joe

My dear Mr. Kurtzman, if you would just watch Entetprise then you would know that thete are klingons with the smooth foreheads not just could be.

Land O'Calrissian

That comment is irrelevant to this discussion since you’re misrepresenting what he said.

MysticalDigtial

Yeah, but the more we ignore the bad ideas like the Augment Virus and Turnabout Intruder the better it’ll be fore the series.

Zinc Saucier

How can you equate the two? One is dated sexism from the 60s that should and has been ignored in all following Trek. The other is an unnecessary but fun bit of fanwank to explain bad make up from the 60s.

albatrosity

I liked the augment virus plotline. I thought it was a nice bit of continuity from earlier in the season and a fun action romp with fanservice thrown in. Like p much the entire fourth season of ENT.

Disinvited

albatrosity,

And the virus’ development under the Empire’s espionage wing certainly lends credence as to how their spies, such as Darvin, could so easily infiltrate the Federation’s body politic.

Joe

I meant there are. Sorry for the mistake

JAGT

Getting there, getting there. Things are starting to sound better and better. Still can’t warm up to the thought of bringing back Spock (i.e. still can’t see any reason besides marketability) or seeing Mirror-Georgiou as a Section 31 operative (and I’m a huge admirer of Michelle Yeoh, make no mistake!) but I can feel my mind slowly opening up to this show as a whole and Season 2 in particular.

Shatner's Bassoon

If we get the touching loveliness that Jeri Taylor seemed to be able to bring to Star Trek back, it’s mojo and sci fi USP returning will make it a phenomena again.

kmart

Grating retro-ness is what I took away from most Taylor shows, what with how she seemed to always get them to be eating meat and acting like 20th century denizens. I’d say to cite Peter Allan Fields for touching loveliness (with an edge), for HALFLIFE and of course his marvelous DS9 work.

I think they have the kernel of a good idea with this space quest idea, as it sounds like a science/spirituality thing hanging on TNG’s THE CHASE (which had the potential to be a terrific movie if they’d held it back, and remains one of my favorite TNGs — an ‘almost’ when it comes to delivering on the promise of the trek premise, which is really good for BermanTrek.) But it is all about execution, and to date that has been extremely limited and desultory.

Shatner's Bassoon

It’s all about the emotions and getting the viewer to genuinely like/love the characters and root for them again, like we had when things like “The Chase” were being made. A touching meaningful conclusion each week to whatever issue the featured aliens were having would deliver the sucker punch and make Trek’s popularity explode again. Sadly that’s all a tall order given the reticence of most people with writing talent to touch sci-fi. Talk of action sequences in S2 most certainly does not bode well either on these fronts.

Athus

“in a time of war the Klingons would shave their heads” is she drunk or DS9 is not longer going to be consider canon?

MysticalDigtial

Do you have the same hair style and cultural practices people did 100 years ago? Crap, let’s go with 30 years ago. I’m going to guess probably not.

Athus

She claims is a traditions that comes from times of Kahless. Now I guess Klingons in 24th century forget about that part of the tradition.. lol. Star Trek Discovery is not canon.

Luke Montgomery

Of course it is cannon. You write comments. They write the TV show. Know your place and accept that you don’t have any part to play in this.

El Chup

“Know your place”???? What’s with the nastiness?

There would be no show without long term Star Trek fans. No Discovery for you to worship on a daily basis.

Athus

I can determin what is canon for me, and you and no one from this crappy show can change that.
Thats make you mad? bad for you.

NiclovesTrek

Okay that may me laugh genuinely. Of course you can determine your own canon, you are a sentient being. You can even make complaints based on that canon. However it does not mean it canon for the show. 😃

Tiger2

Luke I like you but this came off a bit rude man. People can think or feel how they like about it.

kmart

‘Know your place?’ “KNOW YOUR PLACE!”
Geez, in this day and age, that sounds absolutely Trumphite. To quote the old adage, ‘it can’t happen here’ … rrrrrright?

ML31

I don’t like to comment on politics here. But what sounds absolutely Trumphite was when the previous showrunners constantly told us how awesome they themselves were.

albatrosity

Maybe there was something unique about the conflict that made them all decide to practice the tradition at once. Maybe not just any war can incur a shaved-head response. Maybe the Klingons have changed their views about certain traditions in the 24th century when they decided they look better with hair. Or maybe it’s just a TV show and the showrunners don’t want to admit they erred by giving us hairless Klingons in the first place so they’re coming up with some BS retcon to placate us screaming fans? Survey says…the last one

Tiger2

Definitely the last one. ;)

You can’t go from ‘well they can’t grow hair because new canon’ to ‘well they just shaved their head because honor and war’ without being obvious they realized they messed up and trying to fix it.

But that’s obviously the case.

Disinvited

Tiger2,

Re: You can’t go from ‘well they can’t grow hair because new canon’

Sure you can. Because unless it was expressly stated on screen that Klingons are hairless and the only hair they wear are wigs and pieces like the ancient Egyptians, that reason for their being hairless would just be off-screen jibber-jabber which is never canon.

Tiger2

No I’m saying they can’t pretend like this was always the ‘plan’ in terms of the production. They clearly saw these Klingons as only bald when they were created. But then fans hated it and whined they wanted the originals back so they changed it. And that’s 100% fine with me. But let’s not pretend this was some grand plan in the works, it wasn’t.

Even if the bald explanation was officially canon I would still be fine they changed it. Canon shouldn’t be so rigid to the point you can’t correct stupid ideas or improve on others.

Zinc Saucier

Loving the idea of the show being more episodic. Hating the the whole science vs faith theme. Really hope they don’t lean on that too much. It’s just not interesting to me anymore, especially after following Lost and its dismal ending where they very firmly take the faith stance. I’ll just let Picard sum up my feelings on how they should handle that whole debate in Star Trek:

“Your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear!? No!”

albatrosity

I think your definition of faith is far too narrow. A lot of religions have wonderful insights on the nature of life and humanity and having purpose. A people without spirituality is a boring race to me…I’d much rather and firmly believe that humans will continue to embrace spirituality well into the 24th century and beyond, despite what TNG would have us say. Being spiritual doesn’t inherently mean it’s superstitious or ignorant or fearful; it just means believing in the extrasensory, the unknowable. And trust me, there are many things science tells us will always be unknowable. We will never know what the 11th dimension looks like. Who knows what’s going on up there? We won’t!

Afterburn

I don’t know about you… but human characters on TNG seemed to be spiritual people. Picard had a spiritual nature in the way you seem to be defining it. Deanna, Wesley, Geordi– even Data had a spiritual side.

albatrosity

That’s true, you and Tiger below make good points that there are plenty of spiritual characters in the TNG era. The entire Klingon race is one monolithic religion. And I like it that way! I say having an open mind to the possibilities is the mark of a true explorer, even if those possibilities sound like pure superstition. I’m not very religious myself, but I try to challenge people who knock it out of spite or misunderstanding.

Tiger2

Well no human in Star Trek was openly spiritual in any century although Sisko became a believer in the end. My guess because Gene Roddenberry hated religion. But religion wasn’t shunned overall, including the 24th century. Plenty of characters were religious they just didn’t hit you over the head with it with the exception of Worf. That guy probably passed out pamphlets in ten forward talking about Stovokor and why dying in battle was a godly honor.

I won’t lie part of the reason I liked Star Trek because it holds up science as the key to human survival, not believing in some invisible man in the sky. That said though it never bothered me if some of them were religious and I liked Trek for making religion diverse in other cultures. So the belief in a higher power has always been there, it just never been a big part of the show until DS9.

Disinvited

Tiger2,

Don’t confuse Roddenberry’s being anti organized religion with somehow his believing the universe wasn’t populated with beings of higher order than we humans which STAR TREK clearly depicted. He just believed that by the 23rd century we would have educated ourselves to the point where we’d not reflexively feel the need to worship them or fail to see them for the fascists they surely were if they insisted of it from us.

Tiger2

I know and why I said he hated religion. That’s not the same as not believing in a God itself, especially since so many of Roddenberry’s creations like the Q could basically pass for a God.

For the record I have no idea if he was atheist or not, I’m only saying he hated religion and why that was probably never seen much in Star Trek or at least human religions. I could be wrong but I think only Enterprise directly said there was still religious institutions on Earth but probably by then a lot of them were dying out by the time it got the 23rd and 24th centuries.

ML31

I think I recall reading that a Roddenberry concept in Trek was that by the 23rd century humans will have evolved past the need for an organized religion. Although there was a chapel on the ship in Balance of Terror.

Curious Cadet

They can’t really visit Talos IV without violating canon in order for The Menagerie to be possible as we have seen, unless Pike or Spock was guilty of going back there secretly. Come to think of it, I have always wondered how Spock knew that any of what he was doing to kidnap Pike and return him to Talos was what anybody wanted, including the Talosians. So there really is a case to be made for Spock returning to Talos, or at least communicating with them on some level in order to set up “The Menagerie”. And that might be a very interesting story indeed.

MattR

Maybe the Talosians are just keeping track of Pike from a distance, or he’s been telepathically connected to them since his experience in “The Cage.”

Like how did the Talosians know to make a fake Mendez to send to Enterprise, and how did they know to project the events on Talos IV on the screen during the court martial?

Either explanation would kinda make “The Menagerie” make more sense. Though Spock violating a General Order might seem unrealistic since it’s still a long time before the events of The Menagerie and he’d have no reason to visit them

Disinvited

Curious Cadet,

I always assumed that the Talos IV death penalty was more than just a boogey man, i.e the area was regularly monitored 24/7 from a safe distance to prevent conventional communications either in or or out from the system. This would have given only one option for Spock to communicate with them surreptitiously: his inherent, although somewhat limited, telepathic abilities and the Talosians own far superior and long practiced abilities. I mean, his half-brother was able to communicate telepathically with a being at even a farther distance than that and the movies were launched with Spock, himself, telepathically sensing V’yger from far out.

MattR,

Don’t forget that the Talosians had more at their disposal than just the mental abilities upon which they heavily relied. They had tech that was able to download the contents of Pike’s library computer in seconds. From that alone, they would have acquired enough info on how to make a presentation for a court-martial on a starship, even if a decade later.

Zinc Saucier

Loving the idea of the show being more episodic. Hating the the whole science vs faith theme. Really hope they don’t lean on that too much. It’s just not interesting to me anymore, especially after following Lost and its dismal ending where they very firmly take the faith stance. I’ll just let Picard sum up my feelings on how they should handle that whole debate in Star Trek:

“Your report describes how rational these people are. Millennia ago they abandoned their belief in the supernatural. Now you are asking me to sabotage that achievement, to send them back into the dark ages of superstition and ignorance and fear!? No!”

Tiger2

This all sounds very promising! :)

I too like the fact it will be more episodic. The science vs faith thing can be a great idea if they did it half as well as they did on DS9. One of the reasons why I loved that show so much and I say this as an atheist.

Zinc Saucier

I have to admit I’ve never been a huge DS9 fan, but from what I remember they did handle it pretty well. That other Ronald D Moore show on the other hand? Not so much. I couldn’t get past the first season despite loving pretty much everything else about it.

Gary

So say we all.

albatrosity

The second season is the peak of serialized sci-fi drama, IMO. But the show as a whole will leave you very disappointed indeed on how they handle the faith concept.

RikersMailbox

Captain Georgiou was a wonderful multilevel character. Mirror Georgiou is cartoon nonsense. Please kill her off.

werwe

The character seems shoehorned in just to get the actress into the series.

Gary

Completely agree. If they really want Yeoh back on the show they should just come up with some sci fi excuse to bring Prime Georgiou back to life somehow (time travel, another alt universe, etc).

ML31

Agreed completely, Werwe.

ML31

The entire MU is filled with cartoon nonsense. That is the point of the MU! And yes. Please dispose of Space Hitler ASAP. Kill her, send her back, I don’t care. She just needs to be GONE.

werwe

I am genuinely excited about season 2. They do seemed to have moved very much in the right direction with canon and the proper ‘Trek feel. Maybe it will only take 2-3 seasons to get this right. LLAPMF!

Gary

If DISC ends up being on a similar “quality” trajectory as TNG (gradually getting better until it hits its stride in season 3) I’d be a happy guy. I think a solid foundation has been there from the start character-wise, but a return to more episodic, morality play Trek storytelling would make the show a winner IMO.

After seeing the first Short Trek episode “Runaway”, I think that’s exactly what we’re gonna get. Felt like a modern take on a TNG B story!

Tiger2

Exactly Gary! I felt the exact same way about Runaway, it was a classic TNG sub plot story, even with some flaws. But it’s a sign we could be getting some strong character stories like that show did so well.

And with the Klingons getting hair again, I’m feeling more confident they are going in the right direction now.

DIGINON

You really are obsessed with Klingon hair ;-)

Tiger2

Not obsessed but certainly happy about it like most seem to be. Until we were told they were changing them a few months ago I was actually resigned to the idea the DIS Klingons were going to just be the new look from now on, even being part of the Picard show. I told myself in time I would eventually like them and that would be it.

But once they changed it it was a big sign they were serious about trying to get the show back to traditional canon which is what I think most are really ecstatic about.

And of course the hair thing was not the only issue with them. It was visually but there were other problems for sure like how they talked. We have to see if any of that was changed too but maybe not.

Afterburn

Agreed. And I think people are unrealistic to expect season 1 to be everything they wanted. It was still leaps and bounds better than any first season, in terms of consistent quality, and engaging storytelling, whether you liked it as Trek or not.

I definitely enjoyed it, warts and all, but am nonetheless happy to see some of the changes they’ve made (a bit lighter tone, a more interesting over-arching story, changes to the Klingons).

Tiger2

We’ll definitely have to disagree about it being the best first season. For me it was one of the worse easily. Yeah it looked nice but it lacked a lot and most of the episodes I have no interest in rewatching again. And it had the worst first season finale by far for me.

That said though, you’re right most Trek shows first seasons are usually bland to bad. Everyone mentions TNG all the time. But it got better, much better and why I have faith so will Discovery. Because nearly all the shows were better in their last season vs their first except TOS lol. But then that was the only one that had a great first season IMO.

ML31

Please… No Talosians. Unless there is a way to make it work but I have little faith in the STD crew to find a way to make it work. I think it just lazy if they include them.

Hank

Wondering if we are will see Jose Tyler, Yeoman J.M Colt, and Dr. Philip Boyce from “The Cage”

ML31

Those would be nice touches, IMHO.

Jai

”The Dominion War takes place more than 100 years after the events of Discovery. Traditions change and are lost in time. Much of what T’Kuvma predicted about homogenization and assimilation of the Klingon race occurs after the explosion of Praxis & subsequent political shift.”

They’re very obviously making things up now. It would’ve been far more logical and realistic if Mary had simply said it had temporarily been fashionable for a few years before DSC for Klingon warriors to remove their hair (perhaps in tribute to a revered bald Klingon general), but L’Rell had ordered that Klingons should now stop doing that, claiming that she wanted to return Klingon culture to “the honour of the old ways, which included long hair and beards” and also as a symbolic way of differentiating her rule from the previous fractured period.

Jai

It’s also incorrect that Klingon fashions in these things would necessarily have changed by the Dominion War “because that takes place more than 100 years later”. Not if you want to base any of this on real world history. Klingon culture is a feudal society, and in real-life human history – especially in medieval and ancient times – major ritualistic aspects of the warrior ruling class’s culture often lasted for centuries. They didn’t change so dramatically unless the aristocracy either suffered a catastrophic military defeat or they were intermarrying with vassal rulers in their empire or allied rulers outside it and adopted some of their customs. Neither of these has happened with Klingons by DS9.

DSC needs smarter people involved – or at least people more knowledgeable about the real world.

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Oh boy they really are making it up as they go along…